Speaker 1: Thousands of people have mysteriously vanished in America's wilderness. Join
us as we dive into the deep end of the
unexplainable world and try to piece together what happened. If
you are listening to Locations Unknown.
Speaker 2: What's up, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of
Locations Unknown. I'm your co host, Joe. You're riding with
me as always is a guy who came up with
the phrase lefty lucy, righty tidy Mike Fanda Bogart.
Speaker 3: Thank you Joe, and thank you once again to all
of our amazing listeners for tuning in. Just a few
announcements before we get go in. First, we'd like to
give some new Patreon shouts to Danny Swales, Kelsey Eschen Camper,
Nicole Gagnin, and Holly Trucked Trush.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I think people just make up names because they
know we're not going to pronounce it.
Speaker 4: They might and it's a good funny thing to do.
Speaker 2: If you're listening to Eshton Kemper, Eshchtin, Kemper, I feel
like I feel like you said it right.
Speaker 4: I think I did. I think you did.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for supporting the show. Thank you
so much.
Speaker 3: We all the stuff we have now is a lot
of it's because of the support from you guys. So
we can't thank you enough. You want to call the show,
you can call two eight three nine one six three.
Leave a funny voicemail. We're doing our patron episode after this.
Maybe we'll pull up a few voicemails. We're going to talk.
Speaker 4: We should.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we have a I can't reveal too much much,
but we might have a Gwen two point oh case.
We actually it won't probably.
Speaker 2: We're gonna keep this one close to chest. So some
certain podcasts don't take it from us right away.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we actually have to do a lot of investigation
on it and research. But yeah, in about three years
expected on you know whose show.
Speaker 2: Yes, so we're gonna tell our patrons about it. We're
gonna they're gonna get a little bit more details, a
little more okay. So so if you want it in, yeah,
you're gonna have to go get a subscription of Finally, and.
Speaker 3: In this case, the person reached out to us about
it after hearing the Gwen case.
Speaker 4: So very interesting, a lot of similarities. I have to say.
It's a little fishy, all right. So there we go.
We just that's that's one hell of a seed you
just planted. Yes.
Speaker 3: Also, we've got some cool podcasts on our network, you know,
the main ones Off the Trails, who runs this part
crime off the Grid. We have a new one, Hike
and Seek. Pretty cool. They go around the country hiking.
It's a their married husband and wife. No, they're not married,
they're dating dating. You know how they met each other
through our show?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 2: Really like shared interest in our show. Interesting because Kelly
was like kind of influencing on our behalf and they
connected and so if they get married, we're gonna get
invited to the wedding.
Speaker 3: Oh interesting, at least I told him that they better. Yeah,
well all right, well so that I did not know that.
That's pretty cool. And we have another podcast, Realish Relish
Relish el second time I've done that, Like the like
the topping for hot dogs relish.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, it's just like relish hot dog. That's
exactly what it's. It's a hot dog podcast. It's a
hot dog podcasts. It's a wellness podcast. Joey, what's the
hot dog year? Joey Chestnut.
Speaker 4: Joey Chestnut. Yeah, yeah, he's a old champion he's not
hosting it. No.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 3: Also, I want to again thank our listeners. We just
got our Spotify wrapped and we found out we were
the most.
Speaker 4: Best in the world.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one of the most shared podcasts, one of the
most commented on podcasts, and our listeners listened to more
of our podcasts than ninety nine percent of the other
shows on Spotify for all three of those categories. And
is that is that like all podcasts, all podcasts on Spotify,
So it doesn't count, not just our category, just every
ninety nine percent of all podcasts.
Speaker 4: That's awesome.
Speaker 3: That doesn't count Apple or the that's just Spotify, just Spotify.
But still that's cool. Spotify now is our biggest post.
Speaker 4: So who's in.
Speaker 2: Front of us, like Joe Rogan and like nobody else, right,
Crime Drunkie Yeah, well, I mean they're getting sued into oblivion.
So yeah, for all your malpractice. I don't know who's
they don't publish. There's not a list.
Speaker 4: No, I'm just trying to make it sound better than.
Speaker 3: Probably everyone on like the top. Yeah, but either way,
it's that's awesome. Those are all engagement awards, so it
just goes to show that everyone listening really enjoys shown
engages with the show. So thank you so much. I
appreciate all of you.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 2: That's any updates for you? No, no, no, no, I
have to have updates. I mean, I just like doing
color commentary on whatever you're saying. You're the Joe Buck
Yeah exactly. Oh no, he's not the color coming.
Speaker 4: I don't know who I am. I don't watch sports.
The tray ackman.
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, all right, everybody, let's gear up and get
out to explore locations unknown. October thirtieth, twenty twenty two,
a thirty five year old counselor sets out alone in
the storm soaked rainforests of Olympic National Park. As an
experienced tiger with survival training, she planned a multi day
truck into the remote backcountry, but as a powerful Pacific
storm hammered the valley with freezing rain and rising rivers,
she never returned. Despite an intensive multi agency search, no
trace of her has ever been found. Join us this
week as we investigate the mysterious disappearance of Laura Mackie.
So this episode is taking us all the way over
to Olympic National Park.
Speaker 4: You were just there, I was just there. It's so beautiful.
Speaker 2: That was the first time I've been to that area
of the nation. We're going to the specifically the Quinault
Rainforest region, so that's Southwest Olympic Peninsula, one of the
park's major three major rainforest systems, along with the Hoe
and the Keats area. So I was also in the
whole rainforest. It's just as beautiful. Also, it's a Queen alt,
Queen out, Queenel, queenel, this is how Midwesterners say it.
Speaker 4: That's just our accent. So east for Quenelt.
Speaker 2: How'd you say it now, kennel, it's queen all, Queen
al like kwee queen a Queen River Valley. Laura's plan
route was entirely within this valley system, so the East
Fork queen Ault River Trail corridor. This is the trail
she had the permit for and is presumed to have
entered on October thirtieth. Some of the key locations are
the Graves Creek trailhead, the Pony Bridge area, the O'Neill
Creek area, Pirates Creek Pirates Pirate's Cleek Creek like Pirate
Rock not our are not pirate pirate, She's not.
Speaker 4: I can't say it. I'm like turning into you. Yeah
you are.
Speaker 2: That was her planned camping location, Fire Creek Area, Enchanted Valley,
that was her destination area. This is in Washington State.
It was established in nineteen thirty eight and sees roughly
two point nine to three point seven million visitors annually.
Just some interesting facts about Olympic National Park. Olympic protects coastlines,
temperate rainforest, lowlands and montagne for subalpine meadows, alpine peaks
and glaciers, all within roughly one million acres, so you
get a little taste of everything when you're there.
Speaker 3: Correction, I was wrong. It's pyrites, pyrites, all right, Just
trying to get us get the spelling correct, that's right.
Speaker 2: I like making up people upset Merscooldo's that one lady
on Spotify just commenting.
Speaker 4: She's probably why we had all the comments.
Speaker 2: Which is she's mad about our I thint she doesn't
realize it helped us in charge creation. I bet that
when I said Tortilla's that really got it that one.
Hopefully they understand you're doing that on purpose.
Speaker 3: We had someone comment that lives in Mexico that said
they were cracking up laughing. Perfect that's that's that's like
what we're hoping that tortilla tortillas. So some of the
last great old growth tempered rainforest on Earth are right
in Olympic. So the rainforest Olympic are among the largest
intact old growth force remaining lower forty eight states. The
park is home home to twelve hundred native plant three
hundred bird species, fifty six mammal species, and thirty seven
to fish species, plus reptiles, amphibians, marine mammals, and more.
Speaker 2: It really is such a beautiful, diverse place. If I
ever went back to someplace again, that'd be the first
place I would go back to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you would have. When I was there, we did
the hike along the coast. If you didn't do that,
that is, I didn't do that, So I would go back.
Speaker 4: And do that. You can camp right on the beach too. Ooh,
I would like that.
Speaker 2: It also supports endemic species found nowhere else on Earth
thanks to its isolation, climate gradients, and varied terrain. The
park includes seventy three miles of wild wilderness coastline, complete
with beaches, tide pools, sea stacks, and coastal rainforest. It
also includes thirty two named glaciers and rugged alpine terrain.
That means one protected area preserves functioning ecosystems from saltwater
tide pools up through rainforest to snow covered peaks, a
rare trophy for conservation. Some of the largest conifers coniferous
trees in the world live here. For example, one Sitka
spruce in the Quinault area is documented champion tree. The
forest includes mo ultiple species that grow tall and wide,
Douglas firs, western red cedar, western hemlock, Sitka spruce, and more,
some reaching heights of two hundred and fifty to three
hundred plus feet. I think was I sharing pictures when
I was up there on the site, because I shared
some pictures of them. But much like anybody who's ever
gone hiking and you see something amazing, you take a
picture and it's like ugh, you like, can't see it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't do it justice. It never picture is
not going to do a three hundred foot tree justice.
It never does even if you're doing point five. Yeah,
it doesn't matter. It just makes you look ridiculous since
the tree. You know what, though, the picture is just
there to stir up the memory of when you were there.
Speaker 2: Absolutely a little bit about the climate. The area where
Laura went missing is among the wettest, densest temperate rainforest
in the continental US, with annual rainfall measured in feet,
not inches. So autumn marks a dangerous transitional weather period
with rising storms, cold snaps, increasing water levels, and difficult terrain.
The environmental conditions alone are enough to make a short
back packing trip hazardous, especially in a storm, and especially
for solo hikers.
Speaker 4: How was the weather and you were there as perfect? Yes? Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Actually, you know what, they hadn't had a ton of
rain yet, so it wasn't as lush as they say,
and it was still beautiful. Everyone was saying like, oh,
it's usually more green in lush. And I'm walking around
like looking at all, like, yeah, it looked so beautiful.
They're like, oh, it's usually better, so I have to
go back.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: This side of Olympic National Park is part of the
temperate rainforest. Annual precipitation extremely high twelve to fourteen feet
of rain per year. In general, in the low elevation
forested areas like the Keynault Lake Valley bottoms, temperatures are moderate.
Winters are cool, but seldom far below freezing and summers
are mild. According to the Climate Data Overview for Olympic
National Park, average daily highs range across the year. While
summer see warmer drier conditions. During fall and winter, the
region becomes very wet and cold, so summer roughly June
to August is the driest and my This part period
daytime temperature's fairly pleasant, rainfall far reduced. A rainy and
wet season is roughly October to April. This is where
you're gonna get your frequent heavy rainfall storms from the Pacific,
rising river and stream levels, saturated soil, possibly early snowfall
at elevation at higher elevations in autumn. This is when
Laura disappeared. Late October marks the onset of the rainy season.
This means increased storm, substantial rainfall, and rising risk of
snow at cold elevations. Are cold at elevations given the
amount of rainfall, The forest environment is very dense in
lush large conifers, trees, thick underbrush, abundant mosses, ferns, a
classic rainforest canopy and understory that makes the forest dark, slick,
and challenging for navigation or visibility even when not raining heavily. Humidity, dampness,
and persistent wetness on logs, rocks, moss, leaf litter make
footing treacherous and make dry shelter or fire hard to establish.
So a little more about the terrain. The landscape is
shaped by deep river valleys carved between steep forested slopes.
Trails often follow these valleys, running close to fast moving
rivers and numerous smaller creeks. Frequent rainstorms swell rivers and
side streams, turning gentle crossings into powerful cold torrents. Slippery banks,
undercut edges, and logjams can make water features hazardous even
for experienced hikers. Moss coated logs, slick roots, and soft
ground increase the risk of slips and falls, and navigating
off trails extremely difficult due to the thick brush, fallen trees,
and uneven footing. Even during the day, the rainforest can
feel dim, making depth perception and wayfinding harder. Once off
the main tread, a person can become nearly impossible to
spot from just a few yards away. Long gradual climbs
and descents where hikers down, especially under pack weight and
in poor weather, wet clothing and cold temperatures increase fatigue.
Once away from the trailhead, there are no roads, shortcut exits,
or easy bailout routes. Rescue requires hiking in, often over
the same rugged ground and weather can ground aircraft. Dense
forest cover can hide bright clothing or large objects objects.
Sound does not carry as far either. A person who
becomes injured in just a short distance off the trail
may not be visible to search teams or helicopters. So
it's it is that lush and thick. Yeah, and I
mean it's still fresh in your mind. You were just there. Yeah,
we were on We didn't do any backcountry, so we
were on a lot of the trails that are more
heavily hiked. We did some trails that are deeper that
took longer. Yeah, And even though they were easily marked,
like it was very you felt like you were alone
because it's so thick. There are tons of people in
the trail, but as long as you're not next to them,
you kind of feel like you're out there by yourself.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Great for hiking, but not if you get lost.
Speaker 3: When we did our hike along the coast, I don't
remember seeing anyone's while we were out there.
Speaker 2: It's just, yeah, it's hard to see anything that unless
you're on a straight line or something like that, so
it's cool. Some of the animals you could encounter, the
American black bear are very common in the area and
the Enchanted Valley region, often seen near rivers, berry patches
and meadows. Not typically aggressive, but a major presence hikers
must be aware of. There's Roosevelt elk, one of the
largest elk subspecies in North America, frequently seen in the
river valleys and meadows bowls, can be aggressive during the rut.
Blacktail deer very common throughout the lowlands, often encountered on
trails and around campsites, and then you'll have cougars, mountain lions,
and coyotes. Hazards she would have faced at the time
of year in the park severe rain and storm conditions,
so late October is the start of the heavy rain season.
As we said, sudden intense rainstorms, rapid train saturations, slick roots,
rocks and logs, trails turning to mud channels, reduced visibility
into the dense canopy, and a higher likelihood of slips,
falls and injuries. So a single slip in this environment
can immobilize a hiker, and in cold, wet conditions, immobility
becomes very life threatening. Why hypothermia risk. Temperatures in this
period can often sit near freezing at night in the
rainforest and below freezing at modern elevations. And you don't
have to be near freezing to get hypothermia. It just
has to be cold in night time and not have
a good cover. And if you're soaking wet, you're gonna
lose heat.
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 2: On top of all that, rivers and creek hazards the
East Fork Quinault River and many tributaries can rise dramatically
after storms. Falling into the river or creek can be
fatal drowning trauma or again hypothermia. And then, as we
said before, if you step off trail you can become
invisible to both hikers and star teams. There are also
tons of steep slopes, hidden drop offs, and uneven ground.
Witnessed that a lot in some of the trails where
it seems very grassed or heavily forested, it's actually just
a little bit of like plant CANopen. If you step there,
it's you're gonna fall. Yeah, So a lot of risks
that are really covered by all the canopy. Early season
snow at higher elevations, while the lower Quannault Valley is
typically rainy, elevations above two thousand or three thousand feet
can receive wet snow, slush, and overnight frost and and
there's really no cell service. The Enchented Valley corridor has
no reliable cell coverage. You can get it a little
bit here and there, but it's not reliable and the
backcountry is very isolated. There's no alternative exit routes through roads,
long distances between camps, and slow star access due to
the terrain and weather, so there is no quick access
if you do go missing. Mike tell us a little
bit about Laura.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so a full name is Laura and Maggie. Date
of birth was not publicly listed, so I don't have
that date dates she went missing. So she was last
seen on October thirtieth of twenty twenty two. She was
reported missing November two of twenty twenty two. She was
a female, age thirty five. She was five foot six,
two hundred pounds, brown hair, blue eyes. There were no
known distinguishing tattoos on her body, clothing, gear. She was
last seen in so black and white striped shirt, black
range jacket, maroon puffy jacket, backpack with multi day Gearily
also noted in posts they made that she used a
green Nemo tent, though it's unclear she deployed it before
she went missing. Personality wise, she was very She was
known to be very kind and thoughtful, deeply connected to
the outdoors. She loved her work. She was described as
compassionate and committed to helping others. She was adventurous, but
cautious and well prepared. And you'll see when I get
into the timeline this person was she followed everything we
tell people to do when you go hiking.
Speaker 4: So yeah, she knew what she was doing. All of
the things.
Speaker 3: Well, I'll get into in the timeline, but it's very
unusual for these cases that we have a subject to
followed our rules so well.
Speaker 2: And it's I mean, it goes to show you just
how dangerous the wilderness can be. Yeah, like people, and
I'll be honest, I take it for granted too, especially
when I'm in more of a heavily trafficked area. Yeah,
I kind of go nonchalantly sometimes into the woods, but
a lot of.
Speaker 4: These cases, it comes down to poor timing with weather.
I think.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one thing I will say about all the different
places I've hiked and probably you've hiked, We've always planned
our hiking trips for the best time of the year
for that area.
Speaker 2: Yes, like where you're less likely to run into terrible
We're not hiking in the Rockies in January. We're not
hiking in canyonlands in July. Like except for you that
one time, No, that was weird. It was late September, okay,
and even then even then, So I mean, part of
it does come down to doing your research where you're
going and making sure you're hiking at the proper time,
because a lot of these places, if you hike when
you know, you hike an Olympic when it's kind of
dry out, like you when you did it, Joe, A
lot of these hazards we talked about are not a problem.
But if you hike when they're getting three feet of rain,
now you've got a serious problem.
Speaker 4: On your hands.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Like I said, she was known as adventurous, but cautious
and well prepared. She viewed the forest as a place
of healing and peace. She enjoyed challenging hikes and intentional
time outdoors. Medical issues. No known medical conditions were available publicly,
and there were no indications of physical limitations or chronic
health risks. From all the research I did, she appeared
very healthy, so nothing that would cause the disappearance as
far as medical related issues.
Speaker 4: Occupation and hobby.
Speaker 3: She was a licensed drug and alcohol counselor and had
recently started her own counseling practice. Hobbies, like I said,
very into the outdoors, hiking, solo backpacking, winter camping, long
distance trails. She completed large sections of the Long Trail
So that goes up into Canada on the East coast
two hundred and seventy three miles. She practiced winter camping
in New Hampshire, and she understood storm preparation and backcountry
safety for all intents and purposes. She was a very
experienced hiker that had a lot of experience hiking and
camping in different conditions, not just your typical weekend warrior
out there in the park.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like she would have been very much
prepared for what she was getting into.
Speaker 3: Though, heavy rain is a different beast that you can
have all the best rain year in the world and
if it's heavy enough and winny enough, you're gonna get soaked. Yeah,
there's no way around that experience in this location. She
did not have any experience in Olympic National Park was
her This was pretty much her first visit to the
park and she chose Enchanted Valley because it was challenging
but not extreme, and family had said that she had
planned and prepared for months for this trip.
Speaker 4: Quickly, what are we looking at here?
Speaker 2: So on a Facebook page where they're just pictures of
her commemorances. Yeah, there's people sharing video of some of
the trails and it looks like it's snowing in this area.
This was posted on a year later. Yeah, but I
think it's like that kind of the area she was in.
Speaker 4: Of you an idea.
Speaker 2: Pony Bridge, Yeah, how lush it is and how thick
it is and looks like the bridge is under repair. Yeah,
and I mean that gives you a good I mean,
look how thick. It's so beautiful. But that is beautiful.
But yeah, imagine searching for someone in all this and
it's rugged. I mean it's very rugged. You don't think
of Olympic. It's not like alpine, like the Rockies. Are,
but it's still really rugged. I mean, look at that,
it looks like it's snowing in a rainforest. Yeah, literally does.
That's that's pretty wild. So let's just jump right into
the timeline here. So I'm going to give you a
little pre trip background. So this is months before her
October disappearance. She was living in Vermont, like I said,
where she worked for years as a drug and alcohol
counselor before starting her own private counseling practice, which her
family said she absolutely loved doing. Her brother in law
told local media that she came to Olympic National Park
specifically to hike the Enchanted Valley trail. She wanted a vacation,
a new place to hike, and a route that was
challenging yet not insane.
Speaker 4: According to her.
Speaker 3: She had been publicly or she had been planning this
hike for months with the goal of hiking to Enchanted Valley,
Enchanted Campground, and back. And this is where I go
into how prepared she was. So, according to National Park records,
she got her backcountry permit for October thirtieth to the
thirty first. She had told the park service that she
was doing a solo trip. She told them her intended
route so Graves Creek Trailhead to Pirades Creek and then
to Enchanted Valley. She planned to camp the night of
the thirtieth at Pirates Creek, and she planned to exit
on October thirty first.
Speaker 4: She told both the Park.
Speaker 3: Service and her family that she expected to still be
in the backcountry on November first, essentially allowing for a
third day in the valley before hiking out. And like
I said, the plan this is all documented by the
Park Service. Two nights out, hiking back on the third day,
So day one hike in the camp, Day two time
in the valley, Day three hike out. So it's now Sunday,
October thirtieth of twenty twenty two, and she drives to
the Queen El Graves Creek area and parks her rented
white twenty twenty one kias ad Ann at Graves Creek trailhead.
We have notes from the National Park Service that she
has presumed to have entered the back country on the
thirtieth along the Enchanted Valley Trail. I covered her intended route.
Multiple media sources noted that a significant rainstorm began on
the thirtieth, with heavy rain and cold conditions.
Speaker 4: And for those of you just listening, Joe.
Speaker 3: Has the path up on all trails and we're kind
of following it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's given us elevation gain over distance. Right now.
Speaker 3: A lot of these trails follow little creeks in valleys
in Olympic and this is one of them.
Speaker 2: Look at the surrounding terrain. There's no getting helicopters in
there to land. I mean, you can fly by overhead
and you're not gonna see anything. So I mean, and
you have to ask you is it's they're hiking in
the same path. We said that in the beginning, But
if you get injured or get lost ten fifteen, twenty
miles into this, they're gonna have to hike that same
distance to get to you and then bring you out.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And you got to imagine too that during heavy rain,
a lot of this valley is going to be you know,
the creek is going to swell.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: And I remember going through there because we were again
low water. Yeah, and you could see in some of
the edges, you know, you see where the water level
has been. Yeah, and it's like kind of like the
area ion. Yeah, it's ten or fifteen feet higher than
what you'd imagine. It's like Holy Cow, and it's a
deluge of water. This is how Hiya gets in there.
Speaker 3: So well, when you think in high water in this area,
there's not going to be a lot of areas where
you're gonna be able to get out of that flood zone.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're in a big funnel.
Speaker 3: And there's creeks that are feeding into the river here,
which this trail follows. There's Pirate Lady's camp. Yep, that's
where she was supposed to stay. Here's a lot of
the locations that Joe mentioned right away in the beginning
of the episode, kind of key points. O'Neill Creek, We've
got let's see Fire Creek campground up there, Tony Bridge Camp. Yeah,
I mean it looks like a great hike. Oh yeah,
there's there's Honestly, the campgrounds are like really well spaced. Yeah,
if you're doing that, what was it, three days she
wanted to do this in. Yeah, Oh, that's like a
wonderful hike. Yeah days to do this.
Speaker 4: It's not too intense.
Speaker 3: Twenty two miles with an elevation a and a twenty
seven hundred.
Speaker 2: Feet is easily doable in three days. Oh, yeah, Yeah,
that's really that's a really nice hike. That's like, Now,
I wouldn't do this in October. I wouldn't do in October.
I probably wouldn't do it by myself. I would do
it in July. Yeah, you know, the drier season. But
I mean, look how many little creeks funnel into there.
Yeah that is in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, it
is so wild.
Speaker 3: Like I said, common occurrence in all these cases we
talk about is, unfortunately our subjects go out hiking in
the worst conditions. So in this specific scenario, there was
a really bad storm coming in with heavy rain and
cold conditions. Social media posts quoted local hikers from the
time mentioning Noah advisories for snow in the Quinault region
and extremely wet, cold conditions, especially at night. Now, very
interesting note here is there were no public records of
anyone definitively seeing Laura on the trail, So her presence
on the trail is inferred by the park service because
of her car where it was parked and the permit
that she pulled. A lot of times in these cases,
there'll be a sighting of the person before they went
missing somewhere along the trail, but in this case, there
was no sighting of her on the trail, so we
have to presume, based on the evidence, that she did
make it out there onto the trail. It's now Monday,
October thirty first of twenty twenty two. This is the
exit date listed on her permit, but both family and
friends and the MPs, like I had said, stated that
she intended to stay out there for one more day,
so failing to exit on the thirty first was not
considered abnormal weather very bad. Still, later reports described multiple
days of rain, some snow in the higher areas, and
temperature is near freezing at Lake Unault and below freezing
at higher below freezing higher and enchanted valley areas.
Speaker 2: So this was October second, twenty twenty three, twenty two.
So here's someone who went hiking. She posted this on
the twenty third, but she was there that year on
September thirtieth and October first. I wish she had pictures
so I could see there must have been so like
there must not have been a ton of rain.
Speaker 4: She said there was some dried up waterfalls.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she was in the area and it didn't
or he sorry, Daniel, Yeah, it's only it was great then,
so she must have just been in like literally in
the worst time, like the perfect storm hit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And unfortunately, when you hike in this part of
the season that you could have a few weeks of
really great conditions and then just get walloped by a
storm coming off the Pacific, And unfortunately that's what happened
during her hike. It's now Tuesday, November one of twenty
twenty two. Like I had said earlier, this was the
day that she had told everyone she was going to
be coming out, and officials still thought she might be
out there though she was now overdue. There are no
known calls, messages, or sightings from Laura after she entered
the backcountry, and so we're, like I said, presuming she
went in there and never came out. It's Wednesday, November
two of twenty twenty two. The overdue report was filed
at ten am, and this was according to Olympic National
Park's official release. Law enforcement pretty quickly located her rental
car a Graves Creek trailhead and confirmed that she did
not drive to the trailhead as planned. So she was
reported overdue Thursday morning based on the press release, but
the primary MPs page and local coverage clearly date that
the initial report was Wednesday, November two, so there is
a little confliction in the date of when she was
reported overdue Thursday, November third of twenty twenty two. This
would be the first active day of search and rescue operations.
Official reports noted that search and rescue personnel hiked into
the wilderness on Thursday to begin a hasty search of
the route from Graves Creek towards an Enchanted Valley. US
Coast Guard helicopter conducted a preliminary aerial search, but it
was impeded by challenging weather, so they had low ceilings
and lots of rain. Obviously, this is another occurrence in
all of the cases we cover that aerial searching is
usually very difficult to do because of the weather conditions,
and early on the focus our search and rescue was
the maintain trail to Enchanted Valley, campsites along the route
and the river corridor where accidents are pretty typical in
this area. It's now Friday, November fourth of twenty twenty two,
so our teams are now checking camping areas along the
route to Enchanted Valley and we're expected to remain in
the backcountry for two nights. Megan Huff, the park PIO,
later confirmed that nineteen searchers were deployed on that Friday,
and the hasty teams had already been out since Thursday.
Helicopter support continued this day when the weather permitted, but
poor weather remained a major factor throughout this entire search
for aerial searching. And we had an MPs release at
that time just stating search underway for missing hiker, and
that was released on November three. It's now Saturday, November fifth,
of twenty twenty two. The search continued Saturday afternoon. The
teams had hiked in and begun checking, like I saidites
and they were planning to stay out there for a
few nights. Local media reports at the time again stated
there were nineteen people out there searching. This included the
agency's King County Explorers, SAAR, Olympic Mountain Rescue, to Coma
Mountain Rescue, Mason County Search and Rescue, and Jefferson County
Search and Rescue. And this is interesting, So the park's
Facebook post asked so the park had gotten an anonymous
tip on November three, and the park was really put
they posted on Facebook that they really wanted that person
to try and contact them again, and they considered the
tip potentially significant. But the tip what was tipped off,
was never publicly released, so we don't know what that
person shared with the parks really, but they were never
able to get a hold of that person again. So
it is now Sunday, November sixth of twenty twenty two,
that there's canine teams out in the field. Now, they
had some helicopters with some thermal imaging capability, they had
a boat crew and there were eighteen members on the
ground working that day. And up to this point, the
only physical evidence they found that she was even in
the area was the rental car at Graves Creek railhead.
So they have found nothing, not a single trace of
her anywhere. And we had a post social media post
from her two sisters, her brother in law, and her
long term boyfriend that they gathered at her parents' house
near Vancouver, Washington to be close to the park and
the search. The boyfriend is quoted as saying the forest
is healing for it's at this time that the family
creates the Laura Mackie Search and Rescue Facebook group as
a coordination hub for information volunteers in that group is
still out there today. You can go visit that and
see there's a post just on October twenty ninth, I
believe of this year.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's up this year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they're still active, and I'm sure this case
isn't that old, so they're still holding out hope that
her remains are someday. It's now Monday, November seventh of
twenty twenty two. Local media summarized the search operations as ongoing.
Speaker 4: At this time.
Speaker 3: The ground searchers were staying overnight enchanted valley canine teams.
They had drones out there now that also had thermal
infrared capability that were scanning the river in shore areas,
and boats and helicopters when weather allowed.
Speaker 2: We someone just asking March if there's gonna be more searches,
and it looks like I'm guessing a family member. Yeah,
that same last name. So the road that leads to
the trailhead is washed out. Damage looks to be severe.
Is about five miles on foot to get to the trailhead.
There's no timetable or funds at this time for repairs.
So now I mean as of March just to get
to the trailhead was a five mile walk.
Speaker 4: Yeah. You can't how remote this, but yeah, that's how
I'm remote this place is. Yeah.
Speaker 3: We have a lot of social media posts from family
and brothers and sisters. They had posted that two National
Park Rangers hiked up to Enchanted Valley on that Thursday,
that one SARA crew overnighted in Enchanted Valley and then
hiked out while searching. On Monday, another crew hiked up
to Enchanted Valley that day. They mentioned that a drone
with infrared was used to scan the river and shore.
They said canine units had been deployed at least once
but found nothing, which that is not too shocking with
the amount of rain in the area. That's gonna wash
away a lot of scent if it's really heavy rain.
And these all of these points were from social media
posts from family and friends on Facebook, and there's also
a really good web sleuths thread where a lot of
the family was posting updates. It's now Tuesday, November eighth
of twenty twenty two. Local media now is reporting or
noting that the area experienced rain and snow with temperatures
near freezing and below freezing in the search area. This
was hampering drone and helicopter use on most days. An
update also stated that on Tuesday, November eighth, helicopters were
able to fly two missions when there was a brief
window in the weather. Some search days were also curtailed
because the trail was flooded and trees were down, making
it unsafe. So Joe just talked about how the whole
road got washed out. You can see the weather was
bad enough that they had to call off the search
for one of the days. Okay, now you're looking at
a video of Yeah, this went out river gorge.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kayakers going down. It shows kind of how
look at all the log jams. Yeah, you can get
trapped up in that. It seems pretty dangerous.
Speaker 4: That seems pretty cool too, It looks awesome. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I don't know my river rafting classes well enough.
Speaker 4: What is that?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 4: I have no idea. Let's see what it says.
Speaker 2: They say, No, no, Elliott, I think they're climbing up
over a log jam.
Speaker 4: You gotta know what you're doing. You gotta know what
you're doing.
Speaker 2: It's like, I'll see if any comments make any assumptions.
So this was on a post and I'll let I
won't get into what it's said on the post, but
it was just an idea to show like how treacherous
it can be. Yeah, so if you were to fall in,
it's so beautiful, I know, look at that. And this
wasn't even a part of the park. I hiked, and
I hiked more near the coast, which was also beautiful,
but in a different way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, this looks amazing. I'll let it roll in
the background if aything interesting happens.
Speaker 3: All So, like I said, the weather got bad enough
that they had to curtail some of the search operations
a couple days, just because trails were flooded and trees
were down. Search and Rescue appeared to have prioritized the
River Corridor and creek crossings early. This is because they
know a lot of the accidents happen around the river crossings.
That's kind of a common area where people get hurt,
so that does make sense to search those areas. It's Wednesday,
November ninth, of twenty twenty two. The large multi agency
search is continuing with a lot of people on the ground.
Like I said, we've got Mountaineer National Park, multiple Counties
Search and Rescue teams, Olympic Mountains to Coomba Mountain Rescue,
the Coast Guard at US Customs Border Protection, Air Marine Operations,
US Navy Search and Rescue was involved, and numerous canine
units were all in on the search by this time.
As far as manpower goes on the ground, it's not
one of the larger searches we've seen, but there's a
lot of agencies involved. You've got the Coast Guard, you've
got the US Navy.
Speaker 2: Well, when you think about it, when we're looking at
the map, there's not a really wide search area. It's
very narrow. Yeah, So I mean too many people. You
really aren't going to get much more bang for your
buck than Yeah. I mean, it's one trail going along
the river, the trail you showed.
Speaker 3: I mean, how many searchers could you fit in there
exactly doing a grid search, There wasn't that much you
could search.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Seven days in, we've got no clothing found, no gear found,
no remains found. The only, like I said, physical evidence
was found was a rental car. This was very perplexing
to searchers that despite an intensive search, they found no
signs of her. If she wasn't even in the park,
and again, park officials were strongly hoping that the person
who left it was an anonymous caller, that they would
call back and speak with the park service, but they
never did, which is kind of strange. I don't know
why you would call once then never call back unless
you were maybe doing a prank or yeah it is
you're bsing. And like I said, the weather was absolutely
just awful during the entire search. You had rain, snow,
wind made operations difficult, especially for aerial and canine searchers. Now,
this is very interesting what I'm about to say, and
I've never heard of this before.
Speaker 4: I'll be the judge of that. Okay, I'll be the
judge of that.
Speaker 3: So her sister stated that her phone was being sent
a military grade SOS, paying once per day. So the
system does not require cell service, but does require the
phone to be powered on with remaining battery. It allows
a simple screen interaction to send back GPS coordinates within
thirty five feet and at the time of when this
was posted, there had been no hits and no hits
have been received, suggesting your phone was either off, dead
or not reachable. I've never heard of this I have
never heard of this either. It's never been used in
a case we've covered. I thought it was really cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's see how it works. SARN SA r N,
which is Search and Rescue network Rescuers in a helicopter
activated system that creates a temporary cell network phone pings.
Your phone detects detecting this network, tries to connect, sending
out a signal or ping to the helicopter system. The
SARN intercepts this ping, uses it to get your precise location,
and sends it info to the rescue team, narrowing the search.
Once connected, you might see signal bars allowing you to
make emergency calls or send messages directly to the rescue team.
What you might see your experience temporary signal. Your phone
might briefly show signal bars or show SOS and the
status bar. When it's connected to the SARN, you may
get alerts or see notifications about the connection. Your phone
automatically sends your location and other info like photos audio
on some androids to preset emergency contact. See why it's
good to have an Android saying.
Speaker 3: Well, Apple phone now has satellite messaging. Yeah, mine's got
that's kind of nice.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So when the military star teams use the SOS ping,
they're actively communicating with your phone to find you, not
just you triggering a general SOS features like Apple's Emergency
SUS via satellite or Android's Emergency SOS.
Speaker 4: So that's really cool.
Speaker 2: They created a tiny cell network to directly communicate.
Speaker 3: In the helicopter and then they send a ping and
they just automatically can get your location.
Speaker 4: That's really cool.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I guess because if they're moving around, they
can triangulate through their motion on if they're receiving the
ping back and forth.
Speaker 3: Or they're using the GPS on the phone, Yeah, to
calculate the coordinates. The sad part is this tells us
that her phone was either off, damaged, or not in
the park.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Another reason why you bring your phone even if there's
no cell service. I always would bring my phone with
some battery packs to keep it charge because I want
to take pictures.
Speaker 2: I want to take pictures, and you always have. I've
been on the top of a mountain and then all
of a sudden, I'll get like a signal.
Speaker 4: I always choke with people.
Speaker 3: The place where I used to live, which was an
urban area around where we our studio is I got
better cell phone reception on the top of Mountaineer than
I did at my house, which was baffling.
Speaker 2: The mele Well, it's all lead paint. Yeah, yeah, it's
an old house. But yeah, so besides just phones take
great pictures. This is another reason why you should have
your phone with And I guess logically should have thought
they had this capability, but I we've never covered a
case where they've used this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's pretty wild. So that's really cool that they
can do that. So I just thought that was kind
of cool, little nerdy, but.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've never heard of that before. That's really awesome. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So it's now Thursday, November eighth of twenty twenty two.
This is when the search was sadly moved into a
limited and continuous operation. This sadly happens with every search.
There's only there's finite resources. They can't search forever, and
with conditions the way they were, they're putting searchers lives
in danger out there. In conditions like this, the helicopters
are flying, they have very brief windows they can get
up and do search operations, and you got to imagine
in a mountainous area like this, there's gonna be lots
of wind in turbulence, and it's it just puts everyone's
lives in danger. And obviously these searchers do it. They
don't you know that. Joe and I always say every
episode that the people that do these search and rescue
operations are amazing, Like, it's amazing people that don't know
you will go out and risk their lives to find you. Yep,
you could be the world's biggest jerk and it doesn't matter.
They're gonna go out and look for you. Yeah, it's
pretty amazing people like that on the planet.
Speaker 4: That.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, the large scale active search was ending. Searchers would
continue intermittently as weather, environmental conditions, and other factors allowed.
The official search lasted for about seven days. A Roughly
fifteen state and government agencies were involved in the search,
and sadly it was ended due to weather. MPs gave
a final update on November eleventh, summarizing information about Laura
and what happened during the search and rescue operation. After
the search and rescue operation was concluded, family statements shared
in the Laura Search and Rescue Group that it concluded
and survivability was not expected. This was consistent with the
shift to a limited search status, and the MPs Investigative
Services Branch known as ISB continues to accept tips and
maintains the case isn't open and unresolved to this day.
From March twenty fourth to twenty fifth of twenty twenty three,
Laura's father and sister organized a volunteer search. They met
at eight am at Graves Creek trailhead on both days.
Their focus was between Pony Bridge and Fire Creek. They
and they chose this time because they figured groundcover would
be shorter, the snow would be receding, and river levels
would be lower, which could help maybe find some of
her gear, maybe her remains. The biggest things that we
don't know from this case is we don't know her
last known point on the trail, which is a real
negative because it does you know, searchers know where her
car was. But this as Joe is showing these maps
and trails, it's a massive area, very rugged, and not
having an exact location of where they like. It would
been great if a hiker had seen her walking in
one of the trailheads, because searchers would for sure know Okay,
she was here at some point, but we sadly don't
know exactly where she might have gone.
Speaker 4: What do you got for us, Joe? Breaking news? Yeah,
breaking news.
Speaker 2: There's a post that this hasn't been quantified because I
was just digging through the search and rescue. The Fouller
of Sullivan Foundation said they posted there with the family'sion permission,
providing information that on eight fifteen of twenty three, some
evidence has been washed down from the Cannault River. Laura's
sister wrote that a piece of tent matching the color
and brand of Laura's tent was found downstream of where
her tent fly was located in the fall of twenty two.
In Laura's shirt pictured below was also washed down the
Cannault River. And that's where we got the video for
where the kayakers are. So there is a picture of
a shirt that matches that. That's interesting, So washed down
and that's the shirt, she said, literally, and that's a
unique shirt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's literally okay, And when was that stuff found?
Speaker 2: So it said the tent fly was found in fall
of twenty two and the shirt was in eight fifteen
to twenty three. This was posted on June second of
twenty twenty. So the tent fly that could be anybody's.
Speaker 3: That could be anybody's. That is pretty unique though. That
shirt is pretty unique. So obviously this was all found well,
the tent fly. The tent fly didn't come up in
the my research for the search and rescue maybe because
it's not verifiably Yeah, it's just it's a post on
the Facebook group.
Speaker 2: It could be hers, it might not be. Yeah, that
shirt that looks like hers. That looks like hers. You
can even see the little reflection on the arm. That's
a unique shirt. That's not just like I've never t shirt.
I've never seen a shirt like this. And they said
she hiked in that all the time, that was like
her hiking shirt, and I get that.
Speaker 3: I've got a couple of shirts that like I always wear.
There was a shirt I would wear every hiking trip.
And if you'd found that with like a bone in it,
just assume it was me. Yeah, because half the pictures
of me hiking are in that shirt.
Speaker 4: That's what I have.
Speaker 2: I have one of the bear Grills button downs. Yeah,
it's one of my favorite shirts. Yeah, yeah, that is
totally looks like hers. Okay, so that's.
Speaker 4: I'm not even showing the screen. Have you been showing it.
Speaker 2: At all this No, because I didn't want him to
read before that gotcha. But when I was showing the
other stuff, I was yes, I turn before, so no
one would read.
Speaker 4: That is what you get with our podcast Live Breaking News. Yeah.
While I was about to say nothing was found, That's
why I.
Speaker 2: Wrote it in there, I was typing particularly as like, actually,
that is very interesting that I have. I'm going to
adjust my theories. It doesn't look too damaged. There's a
couple holes in it. Yeah, I mean it's been out
there for a few years. Yeah, but that's kind of
what I'm saying. Yeah, it looks pretty well preserved. Interesting.
Speaker 3: Okay, so we found a tent fly and a piece
of tent that I'm not going.
Speaker 2: To share anymore because they have their theories here too.
That okay, So it's kind of what I was thinking,
just to recap.
Speaker 3: The official search didn't state anything was found, and I'm
guessing the tent fly may have been found after the
search ended.
Speaker 4: The search.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like years later, well, twenty two, it's
a year year later.
Speaker 3: She went missing. In twenty twenty two. It said fall
of twenty two. Oh yeah it did, but fall that
includes late November, right, that's still fall.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: My guess is the tent fly, which I don't know
that you could theoretically verify if that was hers or not.
It could be someone else's tent. But that shirt was
found in twenty twenty three, and they posted that in
twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4: That is her shirt. Yes, I think there's no doubt
about it. Yeah, I would also agree. I think that's
definitely hers. I'm not showing the screen anymore. I'm reading
okay comments.
Speaker 3: So, okay, there was some physical evidence. So there was
no physical evidence found at the time of the search,
so footprints, camp remnants, gear. Oh okay, So did you write
that other part or did I add that? Did I
just put you just put the capitol letters? Yeah, okay,
So I guess I didn't read far enough in my
own research.
Speaker 4: Well, this is a random post on the well.
Speaker 3: They did have in here that items were washed out
that meet the criteria for items she may have had.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's so, I mean, and that's that's true. Yeah,
that's this can never be confirmed unless they found like
a bone fragment and they did a DNA analysis whatever.
So technically I would say a tent fly that's green.
I've seen a thousand of them. Yeah, I'm not the
tent stuff, but that shirt is very So she was
hiking there and then someone else just happened to randomly
go missing, lose their shirt and then they find it. Yeah,
or just lose that shirt specifically in that timeframe.
Speaker 4: That's a very unique shirt. That's a very unique shirt.
I agree.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'll put this back up, which is the
side by side.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's definitely her shirt. Yeah, I think there's no
doubt about it. What would the odds be of that
same shirt being found in the area where she went missed?
Speaker 4: Very low? Very low. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So now the question remains, all right, you found the shirt,
where's all the other gear? So very interesting, and you
dropped a little breaking news bomb.
Speaker 2: I know that's yeah. We'll do it live. We'll do
it live. So what are your theories?
Speaker 3: Okay, most everything's changed, No, ha'd nothing changed. I think
this just I think this just solidifies the most likely theory.
So I had the most likely theory as accidental injury
followed by exposure hypothermia. So the theory goes Laura is
injured on or near the trail and is unable to continue.
With heavy rain, snow, and near freezing temperatures, hypothermia sets
and quickly. This fits this case because we had a
significant rainstorm that came in on October thirtieth, the day
she entered the back country. Temperatures were near freezing at
the Lake Couanault and below freezing at higher elevations of
the search area. Her permit indicated she was still expected
to be out on November one, meaning she would have
been in the storm for multiple days. She Sadly, most
media outlets, local media outlets presumed she had died passed
away out there. From the exposure element of this and
this trail, the trail she would have been on is
would have contained slick roots, steep eroded sections, and side
slopes where you know, just even a minor slip can
result in a disabling injury. And this all aligns with
storm timing, terrain, and the complete lack of communication or return.
It also explains why she was not located during the
early search and rescue if she had been a mobile
and off the trail, and adding in the hypothermia element
to it, the fact that they found that shirt. Maybe
she was doing the paradoxical undressing and taking items of
clothing off potentially, Yeah, because the shirt didn't look very damaged. No,
I don't want to get too graphic, but you got
to imagine if someone passes away out there and their
clothing is on them as nature takes a hold, that
clothing is gonna get discolored. Animals are gonna scavenge, and
it's gonna be more torn up. That shirt looked pretty clean. Yeah,
and there was only a couple holes in it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a couple holes and it looked like I'll
pull that back up. A couple holes in it looked
like the zipper was separating from the Yeah, but like
that's not crazy.
Speaker 3: But that doesn't look like an article of clothing that
was with the remains.
Speaker 4: Yeh. See, this is the zipper. I don't know what
they call that.
Speaker 2: It's the the two part pieces of fabric that the
zipper goes on. It's separating from the rest of the
shirt because it zips up the middle. But yeah, there's
a hole there, a hole there, and it's in pretty
good shape.
Speaker 3: There's no discoloration on it. Yeah, there's no signs of
animal scavenging on it.
Speaker 4: It looks pretty well preserved. Yeah, there's no blood stains.
Speaker 3: There's no blood, so like now, granted it maybe over
time those stains would fade, but I mean it looks
pretty clean. You would maybe if someone had a traumatic
injury like broken arm in the bone came through the skin, you.
Speaker 4: Would have a lot of blood.
Speaker 2: Yeah, pins, I really feel like the stuff that's wrong
with it is what would happen if your shirt washed
down a really violent river. Yeah, and it got stuck
on some sticks branches, yeah, and washed out. Yeah, that
looks pretty is my completely uneducated opinion.
Speaker 4: That is not based for.
Speaker 3: Being out there, and that was found in twenty twenty three,
So a full year out in the wilderness.
Speaker 4: Interesting. Next, likely kids.
Speaker 2: Leave shoes outside that look worse than this, Yeah, like
just in our lawn through a couple storms.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The next logical theory is a river or creek accident.
So the theory goes, Laura slips into the East Fork,
Quinault River or a tributary during high water and is
swept down stream. This fits very well with this case
because of the storm driven rainfall significantly raises water level.
This would make riverbanks very slick and crossings hazardous. This
also is in line with how the search and rescue
were going about their operation. They deployed boats and drones
along the river corridor, which indicated a concern for a
water related incident. And this river from the videos Joe
is showing it, it contains lots of log jams, undercut banks,
and deep channels that could conceal remains for a long
period of time. So I think now that we found
the shirt and possibly tent fragments washing up, this is
a very likely scenario. Another theory off route travel into steep,
dense timber followed by exposure. So this theory goes she
leaves the maintained trail intentionally or unintentionally and enters steep
brushfield terrain that is difficult to search and survive.
Speaker 4: This fits with this case.
Speaker 3: The enchanted Valley corridor has very thick vegetation, slippery slopes,
drainage gullies where a visibility from the trail or air
would be very limited, and the star teams did search
both trail and off trail areas, but it's so thick
and we got blowed down and ravines. This all reduces
the possibility of detection, and she doesn't seem like the
person who goes off trail. No, she's following all the rules,
she's doing all the right things, So I don't really
think that jives. Yeah, her family even described conditions including
down trees, flooded sections, low visibility during the storm, which
all align with this theory. So I think that's a
real possible less likely theories. I'll just briefly cover here
A sudden medical emergency. She seemed very fit, physically active,
She's thirty five, no known medical conditions. I would imagine
if she had some kind of chronic condition that would
have come out during the search and rest, somebody would
have said.
Speaker 4: Something about it.
Speaker 3: And we always say, if you're hiking down the trail
and you have a heart attack right on the trail,
you're going to be found by search and rescue. It.
I don't think a medical emergency happened. We always mention
it because it does happen. But intentional self harm, I
don't think this one is plausible in this case. Family
accounts describe her as engaged with work, passionate about hiking,
excited about the trip. There were no behavioral indicators that
would point into the direction. I just always mention it
because our last case, the guy who went missing twice
in sand Dune's National Park, I think maybe if it
wasn't intentional self harm, it was something going on with
him that caused him to go back there, but I
don't think that's a possibility in this case. And finally,
just foul play by an unknown person, and that's pretty logical.
You can figure out how that theory goes, but it
doesn't fit this case. Or vehicle didn't show any signs
of disturbance or break in or unusual activities. There are
no reports of suspicious individuals or vehicles in the area.
The route is remote but does not have a pattern
of foul play in cases, so it's a pretty safe
area to hike, and search and rescue teams found no physical, electronic,
or situational evidence suggesting him for crime, so probably not.
And that kind of weather, most people aren't gonna be
out there with a storm like that rolling in, So
she probably was. Probably one of the reasons why no
one sorrow was Probably was there anyone out there hiking? Yeah,
so yeah, I think logical theory for me, she got
out there, rivers swelled and she either maybe fell in,
got out, got hypothermia, or she fell in and was
passed away in the one of the rivers or creeks.
That shirt, I mean, we know she was out there. Yeah,
that's her shirt, There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I feel like she fell and got swept by the river. Yeah,
and she had all of her stuff with her, and
so far, the only things that have been washed out
had been the shirt and the tent fly or the
tent piece. So I think like with all those strain
if there's that deluge of water and those valleys are
so steep, so you have to think about all that
water just filtering right to that river, and it's really
it's probably super violent.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: We watched the kayakers on a day where it was
sunny and it was pretty violent, so you could imagine
what it looks like when it's just swelled up, tons.
Speaker 4: Of water going. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I feel like she probably got in there, maybe had
her backpack on, and got caught a strainer point or something.
Speaker 4: And that's why I searched.
Speaker 2: She didn't find any of her gear exactly, because it
all That's why I thought like, maybe if like they
found stuff and if those tent sites are the campsites,
maybe rain could have pushed it in the river, but
then you'd find other stuff. Yeah, that's why I feel
like she had everything on her and potentially had a slip.
And then if you slip and fall onto that Yeah,
with that much rain, you're not getting out of.
Speaker 3: It, especially if you got a heavy pack. Because it
said she was prepared for multi day hikes, so yeah,
her pack probably was pretty heavy.
Speaker 4: That's going to act like an anchor in that kind
of water. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And if you're not in a river crossing, like what
if she slipped in when she was on the trail,
it's gonna be buckled in everywhere.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And if you get injured on the way down or
knocked out and you're attached to that thing, it's not
going to be good. And else I think that to
me is the most plausible. Yeah, something like that, just
because the only evidence we've seen is come out in
the river.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think that's my theory. I think it's
a good theory.
Speaker 2: Well, let us know what you think on our Facebook
or Instagram. Thanks again for tuning into our show. We
appreciate all of you for listening and sharing locations known
with your friends and family and helping us get in
the top ninety nine percent on Spotify.
Speaker 4: That is so awesome.
Speaker 2: That's really really cool. And how many like million minutes
of listening was it or something?
Speaker 4: It was?
Speaker 3: It was thirteen million minutes or twenty four years straight,
just this.
Speaker 4: Year, just this year.
Speaker 2: Thank you for spending thirteen million minutes with us cumulative.
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Speaker 4: Thanks. We will see you all next time.