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Speaker 1: Thousands of people have mysteriously vanished in America's wilderness. Join

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us as we dive into the deep end of the

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unexplainable world and try to piece together what happened. If

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you are listening to Locations Unknown.

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Speaker 2: What's up, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of

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Locations Unknown. I'm your co host, Joe. You're riding with

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me as always is a guy who came up with

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the phrase lefty lucy, righty tidy Mike Fanda Bogart.

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Speaker 3: Thank you Joe, and thank you once again to all

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of our amazing listeners for tuning in. Just a few

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announcements before we get go in. First, we'd like to

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give some new Patreon shouts to Danny Swales, Kelsey Eschen Camper,

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Nicole Gagnin, and Holly Trucked Trush.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes I think people just make up names because they

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know we're not going to pronounce it.

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Speaker 4: They might and it's a good funny thing to do.

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Speaker 2: If you're listening to Eshton Kemper, Eshchtin, Kemper, I feel

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like I feel like you said it right.

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Speaker 4: I think I did. I think you did.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much for supporting the show. Thank you

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so much.

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Speaker 3: We all the stuff we have now is a lot

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of it's because of the support from you guys. So

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we can't thank you enough. You want to call the show,

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you can call two eight three nine one six three.

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Leave a funny voicemail. We're doing our patron episode after this.

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Maybe we'll pull up a few voicemails. We're going to talk.

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Speaker 4: We should.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we have a I can't reveal too much much,

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but we might have a Gwen two point oh case.

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We actually it won't probably.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna keep this one close to chest. So some

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certain podcasts don't take it from us right away.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we actually have to do a lot of investigation

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on it and research. But yeah, in about three years

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expected on you know whose show.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so we're gonna tell our patrons about it. We're

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gonna they're gonna get a little bit more details, a

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little more okay. So so if you want it in, yeah,

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you're gonna have to go get a subscription of Finally, and.

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Speaker 3: In this case, the person reached out to us about

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it after hearing the Gwen case.

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Speaker 4: So very interesting, a lot of similarities. I have to say.

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It's a little fishy, all right. So there we go.

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We just that's that's one hell of a seed you

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just planted. Yes.

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Speaker 3: Also, we've got some cool podcasts on our network, you know,

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the main ones Off the Trails, who runs this part

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crime off the Grid. We have a new one, Hike

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and Seek. Pretty cool. They go around the country hiking.

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It's a their married husband and wife. No, they're not married,

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they're dating dating. You know how they met each other

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through our show?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Really like shared interest in our show. Interesting because Kelly

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was like kind of influencing on our behalf and they

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connected and so if they get married, we're gonna get

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invited to the wedding.

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Speaker 3: Oh interesting, at least I told him that they better. Yeah,

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well all right, well so that I did not know that.

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That's pretty cool. And we have another podcast, Realish Relish

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Relish el second time I've done that, Like the like

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the topping for hot dogs relish.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, it's just like relish hot dog. That's

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exactly what it's. It's a hot dog podcast. It's a

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hot dog podcasts. It's a wellness podcast. Joey, what's the

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hot dog year? Joey Chestnut.

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Speaker 4: Joey Chestnut. Yeah, yeah, he's a old champion he's not

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hosting it. No.

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Speaker 1: Oh.

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Speaker 3: Also, I want to again thank our listeners. We just

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got our Spotify wrapped and we found out we were

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the most.

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Speaker 4: Best in the world.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, one of the most shared podcasts, one of the

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most commented on podcasts, and our listeners listened to more

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of our podcasts than ninety nine percent of the other

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shows on Spotify for all three of those categories. And

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is that is that like all podcasts, all podcasts on Spotify,

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So it doesn't count, not just our category, just every

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ninety nine percent of all podcasts.

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Speaker 4: That's awesome.

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Speaker 3: That doesn't count Apple or the that's just Spotify, just Spotify.

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But still that's cool. Spotify now is our biggest post.

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Speaker 4: So who's in.

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Speaker 2: Front of us, like Joe Rogan and like nobody else, right,

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Crime Drunkie Yeah, well, I mean they're getting sued into oblivion.

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So yeah, for all your malpractice. I don't know who's

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they don't publish. There's not a list.

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Speaker 4: No, I'm just trying to make it sound better than.

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Speaker 3: Probably everyone on like the top. Yeah, but either way,

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it's that's awesome. Those are all engagement awards, so it

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just goes to show that everyone listening really enjoys shown

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engages with the show. So thank you so much. I

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appreciate all of you.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: That's any updates for you? No, no, no, no, I

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have to have updates. I mean, I just like doing

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color commentary on whatever you're saying. You're the Joe Buck

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Yeah exactly. Oh no, he's not the color coming.

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Speaker 4: I don't know who I am. I don't watch sports.

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The tray ackman.

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Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, all right, everybody, let's gear up and get

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out to explore locations unknown. October thirtieth, twenty twenty two,

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a thirty five year old counselor sets out alone in

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the storm soaked rainforests of Olympic National Park. As an

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experienced tiger with survival training, she planned a multi day

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truck into the remote backcountry, but as a powerful Pacific

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storm hammered the valley with freezing rain and rising rivers,

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she never returned. Despite an intensive multi agency search, no

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trace of her has ever been found. Join us this

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week as we investigate the mysterious disappearance of Laura Mackie.

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So this episode is taking us all the way over

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to Olympic National Park.

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Speaker 4: You were just there, I was just there. It's so beautiful.

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Speaker 2: That was the first time I've been to that area

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of the nation. We're going to the specifically the Quinault

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Rainforest region, so that's Southwest Olympic Peninsula, one of the

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park's major three major rainforest systems, along with the Hoe

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and the Keats area. So I was also in the

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whole rainforest. It's just as beautiful. Also, it's a Queen alt,

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Queen out, Queenel, queenel, this is how Midwesterners say it.

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Speaker 4: That's just our accent. So east for Quenelt.

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Speaker 2: How'd you say it now, kennel, it's queen all, Queen

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al like kwee queen a Queen River Valley. Laura's plan

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route was entirely within this valley system, so the East

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Fork queen Ault River Trail corridor. This is the trail

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she had the permit for and is presumed to have

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entered on October thirtieth. Some of the key locations are

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the Graves Creek trailhead, the Pony Bridge area, the O'Neill

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Creek area, Pirates Creek Pirates Pirate's Cleek Creek like Pirate

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Rock not our are not pirate pirate, She's not.

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Speaker 4: I can't say it. I'm like turning into you. Yeah

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you are.

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Speaker 2: That was her planned camping location, Fire Creek Area, Enchanted Valley,

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that was her destination area. This is in Washington State.

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It was established in nineteen thirty eight and sees roughly

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two point nine to three point seven million visitors annually.

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Just some interesting facts about Olympic National Park. Olympic protects coastlines,

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temperate rainforest, lowlands and montagne for subalpine meadows, alpine peaks

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and glaciers, all within roughly one million acres, so you

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get a little taste of everything when you're there.

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Speaker 3: Correction, I was wrong. It's pyrites, pyrites, all right, Just

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trying to get us get the spelling correct, that's right.

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Speaker 2: I like making up people upset Merscooldo's that one lady

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on Spotify just commenting.

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Speaker 4: She's probably why we had all the comments.

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Speaker 2: Which is she's mad about our I thint she doesn't

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realize it helped us in charge creation. I bet that

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when I said Tortilla's that really got it that one.

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Hopefully they understand you're doing that on purpose.

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Speaker 3: We had someone comment that lives in Mexico that said

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they were cracking up laughing. Perfect that's that's that's like

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what we're hoping that tortilla tortillas. So some of the

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last great old growth tempered rainforest on Earth are right

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in Olympic. So the rainforest Olympic are among the largest

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intact old growth force remaining lower forty eight states. The

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park is home home to twelve hundred native plant three

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hundred bird species, fifty six mammal species, and thirty seven

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to fish species, plus reptiles, amphibians, marine mammals, and more.

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Speaker 2: It really is such a beautiful, diverse place. If I

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ever went back to someplace again, that'd be the first

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place I would go back to.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you would have. When I was there, we did

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the hike along the coast. If you didn't do that,

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that is, I didn't do that, So I would go back.

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Speaker 4: And do that. You can camp right on the beach too. Ooh,

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I would like that.

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Speaker 2: It also supports endemic species found nowhere else on Earth

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thanks to its isolation, climate gradients, and varied terrain. The

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park includes seventy three miles of wild wilderness coastline, complete

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with beaches, tide pools, sea stacks, and coastal rainforest. It

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also includes thirty two named glaciers and rugged alpine terrain.

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That means one protected area preserves functioning ecosystems from saltwater

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tide pools up through rainforest to snow covered peaks, a

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rare trophy for conservation. Some of the largest conifers coniferous

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trees in the world live here. For example, one Sitka

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spruce in the Quinault area is documented champion tree. The

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forest includes mo ultiple species that grow tall and wide,

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Douglas firs, western red cedar, western hemlock, Sitka spruce, and more,

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some reaching heights of two hundred and fifty to three

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hundred plus feet. I think was I sharing pictures when

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I was up there on the site, because I shared

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some pictures of them. But much like anybody who's ever

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gone hiking and you see something amazing, you take a

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picture and it's like ugh, you like, can't see it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't do it justice. It never picture is

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not going to do a three hundred foot tree justice.

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It never does even if you're doing point five. Yeah,

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it doesn't matter. It just makes you look ridiculous since

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the tree. You know what, though, the picture is just

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there to stir up the memory of when you were there.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely a little bit about the climate. The area where

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Laura went missing is among the wettest, densest temperate rainforest

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in the continental US, with annual rainfall measured in feet,

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not inches. So autumn marks a dangerous transitional weather period

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with rising storms, cold snaps, increasing water levels, and difficult terrain.

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The environmental conditions alone are enough to make a short

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back packing trip hazardous, especially in a storm, and especially

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for solo hikers.

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Speaker 4: How was the weather and you were there as perfect? Yes? Absolutely?

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Speaker 2: Actually, you know what, they hadn't had a ton of

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rain yet, so it wasn't as lush as they say,

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and it was still beautiful. Everyone was saying like, oh,

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it's usually more green in lush. And I'm walking around

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like looking at all, like, yeah, it looked so beautiful.

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They're like, oh, it's usually better, so I have to

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go back.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: This side of Olympic National Park is part of the

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temperate rainforest. Annual precipitation extremely high twelve to fourteen feet

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of rain per year. In general, in the low elevation

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forested areas like the Keynault Lake Valley bottoms, temperatures are moderate.

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Winters are cool, but seldom far below freezing and summers

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are mild. According to the Climate Data Overview for Olympic

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National Park, average daily highs range across the year. While

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summer see warmer drier conditions. During fall and winter, the

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region becomes very wet and cold, so summer roughly June

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to August is the driest and my This part period

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daytime temperature's fairly pleasant, rainfall far reduced. A rainy and

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wet season is roughly October to April. This is where

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you're gonna get your frequent heavy rainfall storms from the Pacific,

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rising river and stream levels, saturated soil, possibly early snowfall

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at elevation at higher elevations in autumn. This is when

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Laura disappeared. Late October marks the onset of the rainy season.

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This means increased storm, substantial rainfall, and rising risk of

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snow at cold elevations. Are cold at elevations given the

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amount of rainfall, The forest environment is very dense in

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lush large conifers, trees, thick underbrush, abundant mosses, ferns, a

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classic rainforest canopy and understory that makes the forest dark, slick,

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and challenging for navigation or visibility even when not raining heavily. Humidity, dampness,

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and persistent wetness on logs, rocks, moss, leaf litter make

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footing treacherous and make dry shelter or fire hard to establish.

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So a little more about the terrain. The landscape is

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shaped by deep river valleys carved between steep forested slopes.

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Trails often follow these valleys, running close to fast moving

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rivers and numerous smaller creeks. Frequent rainstorms swell rivers and

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side streams, turning gentle crossings into powerful cold torrents. Slippery banks,

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undercut edges, and logjams can make water features hazardous even

241
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for experienced hikers. Moss coated logs, slick roots, and soft

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00:13:24,799 --> 00:13:27,759
ground increase the risk of slips and falls, and navigating

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off trails extremely difficult due to the thick brush, fallen trees,

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and uneven footing. Even during the day, the rainforest can

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feel dim, making depth perception and wayfinding harder. Once off

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the main tread, a person can become nearly impossible to

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spot from just a few yards away. Long gradual climbs

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and descents where hikers down, especially under pack weight and

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in poor weather, wet clothing and cold temperatures increase fatigue.

250
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Once away from the trailhead, there are no roads, shortcut exits,

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or easy bailout routes. Rescue requires hiking in, often over

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00:14:00,799 --> 00:14:05,159
the same rugged ground and weather can ground aircraft. Dense

253
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forest cover can hide bright clothing or large objects objects.

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Sound does not carry as far either. A person who

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becomes injured in just a short distance off the trail

256
00:14:14,159 --> 00:14:17,159
may not be visible to search teams or helicopters. So

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it's it is that lush and thick. Yeah, and I

258
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mean it's still fresh in your mind. You were just there. Yeah,

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we were on We didn't do any backcountry, so we

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were on a lot of the trails that are more

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heavily hiked. We did some trails that are deeper that

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took longer. Yeah, And even though they were easily marked,

263
00:14:34,279 --> 00:14:36,600
like it was very you felt like you were alone

264
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because it's so thick. There are tons of people in

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the trail, but as long as you're not next to them,

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you kind of feel like you're out there by yourself.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Great for hiking, but not if you get lost.

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Speaker 3: When we did our hike along the coast, I don't

269
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remember seeing anyone's while we were out there.

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Speaker 2: It's just, yeah, it's hard to see anything that unless

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you're on a straight line or something like that, so

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it's cool. Some of the animals you could encounter, the

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American black bear are very common in the area and

274
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the Enchanted Valley region, often seen near rivers, berry patches

275
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and meadows. Not typically aggressive, but a major presence hikers

276
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,000
must be aware of. There's Roosevelt elk, one of the

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00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,879
largest elk subspecies in North America, frequently seen in the

278
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,200
river valleys and meadows bowls, can be aggressive during the rut.

279
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Blacktail deer very common throughout the lowlands, often encountered on

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trails and around campsites, and then you'll have cougars, mountain lions,

281
00:15:26,879 --> 00:15:30,799
and coyotes. Hazards she would have faced at the time

282
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,360
of year in the park severe rain and storm conditions,

283
00:15:33,399 --> 00:15:35,639
so late October is the start of the heavy rain season.

284
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As we said, sudden intense rainstorms, rapid train saturations, slick roots,

285
00:15:40,799 --> 00:15:45,000
rocks and logs, trails turning to mud channels, reduced visibility

286
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,440
into the dense canopy, and a higher likelihood of slips,

287
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,080
falls and injuries. So a single slip in this environment

288
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can immobilize a hiker, and in cold, wet conditions, immobility

289
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becomes very life threatening. Why hypothermia risk. Temperatures in this

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00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,960
period can often sit near freezing at night in the

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rainforest and below freezing at modern elevations. And you don't

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00:16:04,399 --> 00:16:06,440
have to be near freezing to get hypothermia. It just

293
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,440
has to be cold in night time and not have

294
00:16:08,519 --> 00:16:10,919
a good cover. And if you're soaking wet, you're gonna

295
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:11,399
lose heat.

296
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Speaker 4: Yep.

297
00:16:12,399 --> 00:16:15,159
Speaker 2: On top of all that, rivers and creek hazards the

298
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,120
East Fork Quinault River and many tributaries can rise dramatically

299
00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,120
after storms. Falling into the river or creek can be

300
00:16:22,159 --> 00:16:26,720
fatal drowning trauma or again hypothermia. And then, as we

301
00:16:26,799 --> 00:16:29,080
said before, if you step off trail you can become

302
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,120
invisible to both hikers and star teams. There are also

303
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,000
tons of steep slopes, hidden drop offs, and uneven ground.

304
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,000
Witnessed that a lot in some of the trails where

305
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,000
it seems very grassed or heavily forested, it's actually just

306
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,600
a little bit of like plant CANopen. If you step there,

307
00:16:43,679 --> 00:16:46,919
it's you're gonna fall. Yeah, So a lot of risks

308
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,320
that are really covered by all the canopy. Early season

309
00:16:50,399 --> 00:16:53,039
snow at higher elevations, while the lower Quannault Valley is

310
00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,440
typically rainy, elevations above two thousand or three thousand feet

311
00:16:56,919 --> 00:17:00,919
can receive wet snow, slush, and overnight frost and and

312
00:17:01,039 --> 00:17:03,919
there's really no cell service. The Enchented Valley corridor has

313
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,079
no reliable cell coverage. You can get it a little

314
00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:08,920
bit here and there, but it's not reliable and the

315
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:13,519
backcountry is very isolated. There's no alternative exit routes through roads,

316
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:17,119
long distances between camps, and slow star access due to

317
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,839
the terrain and weather, so there is no quick access

318
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,200
if you do go missing. Mike tell us a little

319
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:23,039
bit about Laura.

320
00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:26,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, so a full name is Laura and Maggie. Date

321
00:17:26,799 --> 00:17:29,480
of birth was not publicly listed, so I don't have

322
00:17:29,599 --> 00:17:33,000
that date dates she went missing. So she was last

323
00:17:33,039 --> 00:17:36,759
seen on October thirtieth of twenty twenty two. She was

324
00:17:36,799 --> 00:17:40,839
reported missing November two of twenty twenty two. She was

325
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,720
a female, age thirty five. She was five foot six,

326
00:17:43,839 --> 00:17:47,240
two hundred pounds, brown hair, blue eyes. There were no

327
00:17:47,559 --> 00:17:52,400
known distinguishing tattoos on her body, clothing, gear. She was

328
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,279
last seen in so black and white striped shirt, black

329
00:17:55,359 --> 00:18:00,240
range jacket, maroon puffy jacket, backpack with multi day Gearily

330
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,759
also noted in posts they made that she used a

331
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,799
green Nemo tent, though it's unclear she deployed it before

332
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:13,160
she went missing. Personality wise, she was very She was

333
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,960
known to be very kind and thoughtful, deeply connected to

334
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,839
the outdoors. She loved her work. She was described as

335
00:18:19,839 --> 00:18:23,839
compassionate and committed to helping others. She was adventurous, but

336
00:18:24,279 --> 00:18:26,440
cautious and well prepared. And you'll see when I get

337
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:31,960
into the timeline this person was she followed everything we

338
00:18:32,039 --> 00:18:34,279
tell people to do when you go hiking.

339
00:18:34,799 --> 00:18:36,759
Speaker 4: So yeah, she knew what she was doing. All of

340
00:18:36,799 --> 00:18:37,279
the things.

341
00:18:37,319 --> 00:18:39,319
Speaker 3: Well, I'll get into in the timeline, but it's very

342
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,160
unusual for these cases that we have a subject to

343
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,160
followed our rules so well.

344
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,119
Speaker 2: And it's I mean, it goes to show you just

345
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,160
how dangerous the wilderness can be. Yeah, like people, and

346
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,119
I'll be honest, I take it for granted too, especially

347
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,720
when I'm in more of a heavily trafficked area. Yeah,

348
00:18:56,799 --> 00:18:59,440
I kind of go nonchalantly sometimes into the woods, but

349
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:00,000
a lot of.

350
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,079
Speaker 4: These cases, it comes down to poor timing with weather.

351
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:04,519
I think.

352
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, one thing I will say about all the different

353
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:11,240
places I've hiked and probably you've hiked, We've always planned

354
00:19:11,279 --> 00:19:15,200
our hiking trips for the best time of the year

355
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:16,039
for that area.

356
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,359
Speaker 2: Yes, like where you're less likely to run into terrible

357
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,960
We're not hiking in the Rockies in January. We're not

358
00:19:23,079 --> 00:19:26,759
hiking in canyonlands in July. Like except for you that

359
00:19:26,799 --> 00:19:29,480
one time, No, that was weird. It was late September, okay,

360
00:19:29,599 --> 00:19:32,480
and even then even then, So I mean, part of

361
00:19:32,519 --> 00:19:34,519
it does come down to doing your research where you're

362
00:19:34,559 --> 00:19:37,359
going and making sure you're hiking at the proper time,

363
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,960
because a lot of these places, if you hike when

364
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,839
you know, you hike an Olympic when it's kind of

365
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,160
dry out, like you when you did it, Joe, A

366
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,839
lot of these hazards we talked about are not a problem.

367
00:19:47,279 --> 00:19:49,680
But if you hike when they're getting three feet of rain,

368
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,319
now you've got a serious problem.

369
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:52,559
Speaker 4: On your hands.

370
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:53,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

371
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,039
Speaker 3: Like I said, she was known as adventurous, but cautious

372
00:19:56,039 --> 00:19:58,319
and well prepared. She viewed the forest as a place

373
00:19:58,319 --> 00:20:02,720
of healing and peace. She enjoyed challenging hikes and intentional

374
00:20:02,759 --> 00:20:08,519
time outdoors. Medical issues. No known medical conditions were available publicly,

375
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,519
and there were no indications of physical limitations or chronic

376
00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:16,119
health risks. From all the research I did, she appeared

377
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:21,480
very healthy, so nothing that would cause the disappearance as

378
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,440
far as medical related issues.

379
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:25,400
Speaker 4: Occupation and hobby.

380
00:20:25,519 --> 00:20:28,119
Speaker 3: She was a licensed drug and alcohol counselor and had

381
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:32,880
recently started her own counseling practice. Hobbies, like I said,

382
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,839
very into the outdoors, hiking, solo backpacking, winter camping, long

383
00:20:36,839 --> 00:20:41,799
distance trails. She completed large sections of the Long Trail

384
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,279
So that goes up into Canada on the East coast

385
00:20:44,319 --> 00:20:48,039
two hundred and seventy three miles. She practiced winter camping

386
00:20:48,079 --> 00:20:51,640
in New Hampshire, and she understood storm preparation and backcountry

387
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,200
safety for all intents and purposes. She was a very

388
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,799
experienced hiker that had a lot of experience hiking and

389
00:21:00,079 --> 00:21:03,359
camping in different conditions, not just your typical weekend warrior

390
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:04,160
out there in the park.

391
00:21:04,319 --> 00:21:06,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like she would have been very much

392
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,119
prepared for what she was getting into.

393
00:21:08,559 --> 00:21:12,200
Speaker 3: Though, heavy rain is a different beast that you can

394
00:21:12,279 --> 00:21:14,119
have all the best rain year in the world and

395
00:21:14,799 --> 00:21:17,680
if it's heavy enough and winny enough, you're gonna get soaked. Yeah,

396
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,880
there's no way around that experience in this location. She

397
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,960
did not have any experience in Olympic National Park was

398
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,720
her This was pretty much her first visit to the

399
00:21:28,759 --> 00:21:34,200
park and she chose Enchanted Valley because it was challenging

400
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,519
but not extreme, and family had said that she had

401
00:21:37,519 --> 00:21:40,599
planned and prepared for months for this trip.

402
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:42,559
Speaker 4: Quickly, what are we looking at here?

403
00:21:42,839 --> 00:21:46,119
Speaker 2: So on a Facebook page where they're just pictures of

404
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:51,640
her commemorances. Yeah, there's people sharing video of some of

405
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,720
the trails and it looks like it's snowing in this area.

406
00:21:54,759 --> 00:21:57,839
This was posted on a year later. Yeah, but I

407
00:21:57,839 --> 00:21:59,799
think it's like that kind of the area she was in.

408
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 4: Of you an idea.

409
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 2: Pony Bridge, Yeah, how lush it is and how thick

410
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,559
it is and looks like the bridge is under repair. Yeah,

411
00:22:07,799 --> 00:22:10,039
and I mean that gives you a good I mean,

412
00:22:10,039 --> 00:22:13,000
look how thick. It's so beautiful. But that is beautiful.

413
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,920
But yeah, imagine searching for someone in all this and

414
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,359
it's rugged. I mean it's very rugged. You don't think

415
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,880
of Olympic. It's not like alpine, like the Rockies. Are,

416
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,000
but it's still really rugged. I mean, look at that,

417
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,039
it looks like it's snowing in a rainforest. Yeah, literally does.

418
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,640
That's that's pretty wild. So let's just jump right into

419
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:35,359
the timeline here. So I'm going to give you a

420
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,599
little pre trip background. So this is months before her

421
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,279
October disappearance. She was living in Vermont, like I said,

422
00:22:42,319 --> 00:22:44,880
where she worked for years as a drug and alcohol

423
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,799
counselor before starting her own private counseling practice, which her

424
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,519
family said she absolutely loved doing. Her brother in law

425
00:22:52,559 --> 00:22:55,240
told local media that she came to Olympic National Park

426
00:22:55,319 --> 00:22:59,759
specifically to hike the Enchanted Valley trail. She wanted a vacation,

427
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,200
a new place to hike, and a route that was

428
00:23:02,319 --> 00:23:03,880
challenging yet not insane.

429
00:23:04,079 --> 00:23:05,039
Speaker 4: According to her.

430
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 3: She had been publicly or she had been planning this

431
00:23:07,759 --> 00:23:11,480
hike for months with the goal of hiking to Enchanted Valley,

432
00:23:11,559 --> 00:23:16,279
Enchanted Campground, and back. And this is where I go

433
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:21,160
into how prepared she was. So, according to National Park records,

434
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,200
she got her backcountry permit for October thirtieth to the

435
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,440
thirty first. She had told the park service that she

436
00:23:28,519 --> 00:23:31,599
was doing a solo trip. She told them her intended

437
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:36,119
route so Graves Creek Trailhead to Pirades Creek and then

438
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,200
to Enchanted Valley. She planned to camp the night of

439
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,480
the thirtieth at Pirates Creek, and she planned to exit

440
00:23:43,519 --> 00:23:44,960
on October thirty first.

441
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,319
Speaker 4: She told both the Park.

442
00:23:47,279 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 3: Service and her family that she expected to still be

443
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,039
in the backcountry on November first, essentially allowing for a

444
00:23:53,079 --> 00:23:56,480
third day in the valley before hiking out. And like

445
00:23:56,559 --> 00:23:59,240
I said, the plan this is all documented by the

446
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,319
Park Service. Two nights out, hiking back on the third day,

447
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,640
So day one hike in the camp, Day two time

448
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,839
in the valley, Day three hike out. So it's now Sunday,

449
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:13,519
October thirtieth of twenty twenty two, and she drives to

450
00:24:13,839 --> 00:24:16,880
the Queen El Graves Creek area and parks her rented

451
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,960
white twenty twenty one kias ad Ann at Graves Creek trailhead.

452
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,559
We have notes from the National Park Service that she

453
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,960
has presumed to have entered the back country on the

454
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:31,759
thirtieth along the Enchanted Valley Trail. I covered her intended route.

455
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:37,599
Multiple media sources noted that a significant rainstorm began on

456
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,079
the thirtieth, with heavy rain and cold conditions.

457
00:24:40,799 --> 00:24:43,039
Speaker 4: And for those of you just listening, Joe.

458
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 3: Has the path up on all trails and we're kind

459
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,519
of following it.

460
00:24:48,839 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's given us elevation gain over distance. Right now.

461
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 3: A lot of these trails follow little creeks in valleys

462
00:24:54,519 --> 00:24:56,160
in Olympic and this is one of them.

463
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 2: Look at the surrounding terrain. There's no getting helicopters in

464
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,279
there to land. I mean, you can fly by overhead

465
00:25:02,279 --> 00:25:04,440
and you're not gonna see anything. So I mean, and

466
00:25:04,559 --> 00:25:06,960
you have to ask you is it's they're hiking in

467
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,240
the same path. We said that in the beginning, But

468
00:25:10,279 --> 00:25:13,319
if you get injured or get lost ten fifteen, twenty

469
00:25:13,319 --> 00:25:16,039
miles into this, they're gonna have to hike that same

470
00:25:16,079 --> 00:25:17,880
distance to get to you and then bring you out.

471
00:25:18,039 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 4: Yeah.

472
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 3: And you got to imagine too that during heavy rain,

473
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,799
a lot of this valley is going to be you know,

474
00:25:24,839 --> 00:25:25,960
the creek is going to swell.

475
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 4: Oh yeah.

476
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 2: And I remember going through there because we were again

477
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,319
low water. Yeah, and you could see in some of

478
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,440
the edges, you know, you see where the water level

479
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,440
has been. Yeah, and it's like kind of like the

480
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,599
area ion. Yeah, it's ten or fifteen feet higher than

481
00:25:39,839 --> 00:25:42,160
what you'd imagine. It's like Holy Cow, and it's a

482
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,519
deluge of water. This is how Hiya gets in there.

483
00:25:44,559 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 3: So well, when you think in high water in this area,

484
00:25:47,519 --> 00:25:49,200
there's not going to be a lot of areas where

485
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,079
you're gonna be able to get out of that flood zone.

486
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're in a big funnel.

487
00:25:53,599 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 3: And there's creeks that are feeding into the river here,

488
00:25:57,519 --> 00:26:01,359
which this trail follows. There's Pirate Lady's camp. Yep, that's

489
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,920
where she was supposed to stay. Here's a lot of

490
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,359
the locations that Joe mentioned right away in the beginning

491
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,119
of the episode, kind of key points. O'Neill Creek, We've

492
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:15,720
got let's see Fire Creek campground up there, Tony Bridge Camp. Yeah,

493
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,400
I mean it looks like a great hike. Oh yeah,

494
00:26:18,599 --> 00:26:22,920
there's there's Honestly, the campgrounds are like really well spaced. Yeah,

495
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,839
if you're doing that, what was it, three days she

496
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,960
wanted to do this in. Yeah, Oh, that's like a

497
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,000
wonderful hike. Yeah days to do this.

498
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 4: It's not too intense.

499
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,519
Speaker 3: Twenty two miles with an elevation a and a twenty

500
00:26:33,559 --> 00:26:34,359
seven hundred.

501
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,839
Speaker 2: Feet is easily doable in three days. Oh, yeah, Yeah,

502
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,440
that's really that's a really nice hike. That's like, Now,

503
00:26:41,759 --> 00:26:44,200
I wouldn't do this in October. I wouldn't do in October.

504
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:45,960
I probably wouldn't do it by myself. I would do

505
00:26:46,039 --> 00:26:49,640
it in July. Yeah, you know, the drier season. But

506
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,359
I mean, look how many little creeks funnel into there.

507
00:26:52,599 --> 00:26:56,759
Yeah that is in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, it

508
00:26:56,839 --> 00:26:57,519
is so wild.

509
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,559
Speaker 3: Like I said, common occurrence in all these cases we

510
00:27:02,599 --> 00:27:06,599
talk about is, unfortunately our subjects go out hiking in

511
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:11,279
the worst conditions. So in this specific scenario, there was

512
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,519
a really bad storm coming in with heavy rain and

513
00:27:13,559 --> 00:27:18,240
cold conditions. Social media posts quoted local hikers from the

514
00:27:18,279 --> 00:27:22,880
time mentioning Noah advisories for snow in the Quinault region

515
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,160
and extremely wet, cold conditions, especially at night. Now, very

516
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,960
interesting note here is there were no public records of

517
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:37,079
anyone definitively seeing Laura on the trail, So her presence

518
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,759
on the trail is inferred by the park service because

519
00:27:40,799 --> 00:27:43,799
of her car where it was parked and the permit

520
00:27:43,839 --> 00:27:46,319
that she pulled. A lot of times in these cases,

521
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,880
there'll be a sighting of the person before they went

522
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,759
missing somewhere along the trail, but in this case, there

523
00:27:51,839 --> 00:27:53,920
was no sighting of her on the trail, so we

524
00:27:54,039 --> 00:27:57,359
have to presume, based on the evidence, that she did

525
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,480
make it out there onto the trail. It's now Monday,

526
00:28:00,519 --> 00:28:03,599
October thirty first of twenty twenty two. This is the

527
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,400
exit date listed on her permit, but both family and

528
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,920
friends and the MPs, like I had said, stated that

529
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,240
she intended to stay out there for one more day,

530
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,160
so failing to exit on the thirty first was not

531
00:28:16,519 --> 00:28:21,839
considered abnormal weather very bad. Still, later reports described multiple

532
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,359
days of rain, some snow in the higher areas, and

533
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,319
temperature is near freezing at Lake Unault and below freezing

534
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,880
at higher below freezing higher and enchanted valley areas.

535
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 2: So this was October second, twenty twenty three, twenty two.

536
00:28:37,319 --> 00:28:40,519
So here's someone who went hiking. She posted this on

537
00:28:40,599 --> 00:28:43,960
the twenty third, but she was there that year on

538
00:28:44,079 --> 00:28:47,559
September thirtieth and October first. I wish she had pictures

539
00:28:47,559 --> 00:28:49,759
so I could see there must have been so like

540
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:51,440
there must not have been a ton of rain.

541
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 4: She said there was some dried up waterfalls.

542
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she was in the area and it didn't

543
00:28:56,319 --> 00:28:59,720
or he sorry, Daniel, Yeah, it's only it was great then,

544
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,279
so she must have just been in like literally in

545
00:29:02,359 --> 00:29:04,519
the worst time, like the perfect storm hit.

546
00:29:04,599 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, And unfortunately, when you hike in this part of

547
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,279
the season that you could have a few weeks of

548
00:29:10,319 --> 00:29:12,920
really great conditions and then just get walloped by a

549
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,680
storm coming off the Pacific, And unfortunately that's what happened

550
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,039
during her hike. It's now Tuesday, November one of twenty

551
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,200
twenty two. Like I had said earlier, this was the

552
00:29:24,279 --> 00:29:26,079
day that she had told everyone she was going to

553
00:29:26,119 --> 00:29:30,279
be coming out, and officials still thought she might be

554
00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:34,400
out there though she was now overdue. There are no

555
00:29:34,839 --> 00:29:38,279
known calls, messages, or sightings from Laura after she entered

556
00:29:38,279 --> 00:29:43,759
the backcountry, and so we're, like I said, presuming she

557
00:29:43,799 --> 00:29:48,000
went in there and never came out. It's Wednesday, November

558
00:29:48,079 --> 00:29:51,599
two of twenty twenty two. The overdue report was filed

559
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,079
at ten am, and this was according to Olympic National

560
00:29:55,079 --> 00:29:59,559
Park's official release. Law enforcement pretty quickly located her rental

561
00:29:59,559 --> 00:30:02,880
car a Graves Creek trailhead and confirmed that she did

562
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:07,559
not drive to the trailhead as planned. So she was

563
00:30:07,559 --> 00:30:10,960
reported overdue Thursday morning based on the press release, but

564
00:30:11,039 --> 00:30:15,519
the primary MPs page and local coverage clearly date that

565
00:30:15,559 --> 00:30:18,640
the initial report was Wednesday, November two, so there is

566
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,920
a little confliction in the date of when she was

567
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:26,200
reported overdue Thursday, November third of twenty twenty two. This

568
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,640
would be the first active day of search and rescue operations.

569
00:30:30,279 --> 00:30:33,720
Official reports noted that search and rescue personnel hiked into

570
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,799
the wilderness on Thursday to begin a hasty search of

571
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,759
the route from Graves Creek towards an Enchanted Valley. US

572
00:30:41,799 --> 00:30:45,920
Coast Guard helicopter conducted a preliminary aerial search, but it

573
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,799
was impeded by challenging weather, so they had low ceilings

574
00:30:48,839 --> 00:30:52,200
and lots of rain. Obviously, this is another occurrence in

575
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,599
all of the cases we cover that aerial searching is

576
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,519
usually very difficult to do because of the weather conditions,

577
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,240
and early on the focus our search and rescue was

578
00:31:01,319 --> 00:31:05,559
the maintain trail to Enchanted Valley, campsites along the route

579
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,200
and the river corridor where accidents are pretty typical in

580
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,200
this area. It's now Friday, November fourth of twenty twenty two,

581
00:31:14,039 --> 00:31:16,160
so our teams are now checking camping areas along the

582
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,920
route to Enchanted Valley and we're expected to remain in

583
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,960
the backcountry for two nights. Megan Huff, the park PIO,

584
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:27,799
later confirmed that nineteen searchers were deployed on that Friday,

585
00:31:27,839 --> 00:31:31,920
and the hasty teams had already been out since Thursday.

586
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,559
Helicopter support continued this day when the weather permitted, but

587
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,640
poor weather remained a major factor throughout this entire search

588
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,559
for aerial searching. And we had an MPs release at

589
00:31:44,559 --> 00:31:48,400
that time just stating search underway for missing hiker, and

590
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,960
that was released on November three. It's now Saturday, November fifth,

591
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:57,240
of twenty twenty two. The search continued Saturday afternoon. The

592
00:31:57,279 --> 00:32:00,559
teams had hiked in and begun checking, like I saidites

593
00:32:00,759 --> 00:32:02,519
and they were planning to stay out there for a

594
00:32:02,519 --> 00:32:06,119
few nights. Local media reports at the time again stated

595
00:32:06,119 --> 00:32:10,839
there were nineteen people out there searching. This included the

596
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,240
agency's King County Explorers, SAAR, Olympic Mountain Rescue, to Coma

597
00:32:14,279 --> 00:32:17,599
Mountain Rescue, Mason County Search and Rescue, and Jefferson County

598
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,640
Search and Rescue. And this is interesting, So the park's

599
00:32:21,799 --> 00:32:25,440
Facebook post asked so the park had gotten an anonymous

600
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:30,079
tip on November three, and the park was really put

601
00:32:30,119 --> 00:32:32,720
they posted on Facebook that they really wanted that person

602
00:32:32,759 --> 00:32:35,799
to try and contact them again, and they considered the

603
00:32:35,799 --> 00:32:40,200
tip potentially significant. But the tip what was tipped off,

604
00:32:40,319 --> 00:32:42,960
was never publicly released, so we don't know what that

605
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,880
person shared with the parks really, but they were never

606
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,359
able to get a hold of that person again. So

607
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,839
it is now Sunday, November sixth of twenty twenty two,

608
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,519
that there's canine teams out in the field. Now, they

609
00:32:55,559 --> 00:32:59,200
had some helicopters with some thermal imaging capability, they had

610
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,359
a boat crew and there were eighteen members on the

611
00:33:02,359 --> 00:33:05,920
ground working that day. And up to this point, the

612
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,480
only physical evidence they found that she was even in

613
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,839
the area was the rental car at Graves Creek railhead.

614
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,200
So they have found nothing, not a single trace of

615
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,319
her anywhere. And we had a post social media post

616
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,119
from her two sisters, her brother in law, and her

617
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,160
long term boyfriend that they gathered at her parents' house

618
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,160
near Vancouver, Washington to be close to the park and

619
00:33:27,279 --> 00:33:31,039
the search. The boyfriend is quoted as saying the forest

620
00:33:31,119 --> 00:33:33,759
is healing for it's at this time that the family

621
00:33:33,839 --> 00:33:37,839
creates the Laura Mackie Search and Rescue Facebook group as

622
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:42,119
a coordination hub for information volunteers in that group is

623
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,519
still out there today. You can go visit that and

624
00:33:44,559 --> 00:33:48,799
see there's a post just on October twenty ninth, I

625
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:49,720
believe of this year.

626
00:33:50,559 --> 00:33:51,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's up this year.

627
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they're still active, and I'm sure this case

628
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,839
isn't that old, so they're still holding out hope that

629
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,839
her remains are someday. It's now Monday, November seventh of

630
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:08,079
twenty twenty two. Local media summarized the search operations as ongoing.

631
00:34:08,119 --> 00:34:08,679
Speaker 4: At this time.

632
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 3: The ground searchers were staying overnight enchanted valley canine teams.

633
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,360
They had drones out there now that also had thermal

634
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,199
infrared capability that were scanning the river in shore areas,

635
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,599
and boats and helicopters when weather allowed.

636
00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:25,079
Speaker 2: We someone just asking March if there's gonna be more searches,

637
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,039
and it looks like I'm guessing a family member. Yeah,

638
00:34:28,039 --> 00:34:30,039
that same last name. So the road that leads to

639
00:34:30,119 --> 00:34:32,719
the trailhead is washed out. Damage looks to be severe.

640
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,400
Is about five miles on foot to get to the trailhead.

641
00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:38,360
There's no timetable or funds at this time for repairs.

642
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,639
So now I mean as of March just to get

643
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:43,400
to the trailhead was a five mile walk.

644
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,559
Speaker 4: Yeah. You can't how remote this, but yeah, that's how

645
00:34:45,599 --> 00:34:48,119
I'm remote this place is. Yeah.

646
00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:50,679
Speaker 3: We have a lot of social media posts from family

647
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,559
and brothers and sisters. They had posted that two National

648
00:34:54,599 --> 00:34:59,000
Park Rangers hiked up to Enchanted Valley on that Thursday,

649
00:34:59,039 --> 00:35:01,880
that one SARA crew overnighted in Enchanted Valley and then

650
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,920
hiked out while searching. On Monday, another crew hiked up

651
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,079
to Enchanted Valley that day. They mentioned that a drone

652
00:35:08,079 --> 00:35:10,800
with infrared was used to scan the river and shore.

653
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,639
They said canine units had been deployed at least once

654
00:35:14,679 --> 00:35:17,800
but found nothing, which that is not too shocking with

655
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,559
the amount of rain in the area. That's gonna wash

656
00:35:21,559 --> 00:35:24,360
away a lot of scent if it's really heavy rain.

657
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:30,800
And these all of these points were from social media

658
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,239
posts from family and friends on Facebook, and there's also

659
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,159
a really good web sleuths thread where a lot of

660
00:35:37,159 --> 00:35:41,519
the family was posting updates. It's now Tuesday, November eighth

661
00:35:41,519 --> 00:35:45,280
of twenty twenty two. Local media now is reporting or

662
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,480
noting that the area experienced rain and snow with temperatures

663
00:35:48,519 --> 00:35:51,440
near freezing and below freezing in the search area. This

664
00:35:51,599 --> 00:35:56,280
was hampering drone and helicopter use on most days. An

665
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:02,079
update also stated that on Tuesday, November eighth, helicopters were

666
00:36:02,119 --> 00:36:04,880
able to fly two missions when there was a brief

667
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,480
window in the weather. Some search days were also curtailed

668
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,280
because the trail was flooded and trees were down, making

669
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,480
it unsafe. So Joe just talked about how the whole

670
00:36:13,519 --> 00:36:15,559
road got washed out. You can see the weather was

671
00:36:15,599 --> 00:36:18,519
bad enough that they had to call off the search

672
00:36:19,159 --> 00:36:21,719
for one of the days. Okay, now you're looking at

673
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,800
a video of Yeah, this went out river gorge.

674
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kayakers going down. It shows kind of how

675
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,760
look at all the log jams. Yeah, you can get

676
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:31,559
trapped up in that. It seems pretty dangerous.

677
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,039
Speaker 4: That seems pretty cool too, It looks awesome. Yeah.

678
00:36:34,639 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 3: I don't know my river rafting classes well enough.

679
00:36:38,639 --> 00:36:39,159
Speaker 4: What is that?

680
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:39,599
Speaker 1: You know?

681
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 4: I have no idea. Let's see what it says.

682
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:47,079
Speaker 2: They say, No, no, Elliott, I think they're climbing up

683
00:36:47,079 --> 00:36:47,840
over a log jam.

684
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 4: You gotta know what you're doing. You gotta know what

685
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:50,320
you're doing.

686
00:36:50,599 --> 00:36:54,559
Speaker 2: It's like, I'll see if any comments make any assumptions.

687
00:36:55,079 --> 00:36:57,119
So this was on a post and I'll let I

688
00:36:57,119 --> 00:36:59,239
won't get into what it's said on the post, but

689
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,920
it was just an idea to show like how treacherous

690
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,280
it can be. Yeah, so if you were to fall in,

691
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,519
it's so beautiful, I know, look at that. And this

692
00:37:08,639 --> 00:37:10,199
wasn't even a part of the park. I hiked, and

693
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,440
I hiked more near the coast, which was also beautiful,

694
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:14,360
but in a different way.

695
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, this looks amazing. I'll let it roll in

696
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,480
the background if aything interesting happens.

697
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,679
Speaker 3: All So, like I said, the weather got bad enough

698
00:37:22,679 --> 00:37:25,840
that they had to curtail some of the search operations

699
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,639
a couple days, just because trails were flooded and trees

700
00:37:28,639 --> 00:37:32,440
were down. Search and Rescue appeared to have prioritized the

701
00:37:32,559 --> 00:37:35,880
River Corridor and creek crossings early. This is because they

702
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,719
know a lot of the accidents happen around the river crossings.

703
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,960
That's kind of a common area where people get hurt,

704
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,920
so that does make sense to search those areas. It's Wednesday,

705
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,760
November ninth, of twenty twenty two. The large multi agency

706
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,000
search is continuing with a lot of people on the ground.

707
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:58,199
Like I said, we've got Mountaineer National Park, multiple Counties

708
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,639
Search and Rescue teams, Olympic Mountains to Coomba Mountain Rescue,

709
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,119
the Coast Guard at US Customs Border Protection, Air Marine Operations,

710
00:38:07,039 --> 00:38:10,159
US Navy Search and Rescue was involved, and numerous canine

711
00:38:10,199 --> 00:38:13,920
units were all in on the search by this time.

712
00:38:14,039 --> 00:38:16,239
As far as manpower goes on the ground, it's not

713
00:38:16,639 --> 00:38:18,639
one of the larger searches we've seen, but there's a

714
00:38:18,639 --> 00:38:22,280
lot of agencies involved. You've got the Coast Guard, you've

715
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:23,639
got the US Navy.

716
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:25,320
Speaker 2: Well, when you think about it, when we're looking at

717
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,719
the map, there's not a really wide search area. It's

718
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,639
very narrow. Yeah, So I mean too many people. You

719
00:38:31,679 --> 00:38:33,679
really aren't going to get much more bang for your

720
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,760
buck than Yeah. I mean, it's one trail going along

721
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:38,119
the river, the trail you showed.

722
00:38:38,159 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 3: I mean, how many searchers could you fit in there

723
00:38:40,559 --> 00:38:42,800
exactly doing a grid search, There wasn't that much you

724
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:43,320
could search.

725
00:38:43,639 --> 00:38:44,119
Speaker 4: Yeah.

726
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 3: Seven days in, we've got no clothing found, no gear found,

727
00:38:48,559 --> 00:38:52,199
no remains found. The only, like I said, physical evidence

728
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,360
was found was a rental car. This was very perplexing

729
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,199
to searchers that despite an intensive search, they found no

730
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,440
signs of her. If she wasn't even in the park,

731
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:07,960
and again, park officials were strongly hoping that the person

732
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,360
who left it was an anonymous caller, that they would

733
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,599
call back and speak with the park service, but they

734
00:39:12,639 --> 00:39:15,960
never did, which is kind of strange. I don't know

735
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,280
why you would call once then never call back unless

736
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,119
you were maybe doing a prank or yeah it is

737
00:39:22,599 --> 00:39:26,039
you're bsing. And like I said, the weather was absolutely

738
00:39:26,079 --> 00:39:29,360
just awful during the entire search. You had rain, snow,

739
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:36,079
wind made operations difficult, especially for aerial and canine searchers. Now,

740
00:39:36,159 --> 00:39:39,079
this is very interesting what I'm about to say, and

741
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:40,840
I've never heard of this before.

742
00:39:41,079 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 4: I'll be the judge of that. Okay, I'll be the

743
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:44,400
judge of that.

744
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,599
Speaker 3: So her sister stated that her phone was being sent

745
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,480
a military grade SOS, paying once per day. So the

746
00:39:53,519 --> 00:39:56,960
system does not require cell service, but does require the

747
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,559
phone to be powered on with remaining battery. It allows

748
00:40:00,599 --> 00:40:04,519
a simple screen interaction to send back GPS coordinates within

749
00:40:04,639 --> 00:40:07,840
thirty five feet and at the time of when this

750
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,000
was posted, there had been no hits and no hits

751
00:40:10,039 --> 00:40:12,559
have been received, suggesting your phone was either off, dead

752
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,320
or not reachable. I've never heard of this I have

753
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,519
never heard of this either. It's never been used in

754
00:40:17,559 --> 00:40:20,480
a case we've covered. I thought it was really cool.

755
00:40:20,559 --> 00:40:23,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's see how it works. SARN SA r N,

756
00:40:23,679 --> 00:40:27,159
which is Search and Rescue network Rescuers in a helicopter

757
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,440
activated system that creates a temporary cell network phone pings.

758
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,960
Your phone detects detecting this network, tries to connect, sending

759
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,760
out a signal or ping to the helicopter system. The

760
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,000
SARN intercepts this ping, uses it to get your precise location,

761
00:40:41,079 --> 00:40:43,559
and sends it info to the rescue team, narrowing the search.

762
00:40:44,199 --> 00:40:46,639
Once connected, you might see signal bars allowing you to

763
00:40:46,639 --> 00:40:49,960
make emergency calls or send messages directly to the rescue team.

764
00:40:50,679 --> 00:40:53,880
What you might see your experience temporary signal. Your phone

765
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,599
might briefly show signal bars or show SOS and the

766
00:40:56,599 --> 00:40:59,360
status bar. When it's connected to the SARN, you may

767
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,559
get alerts or see notifications about the connection. Your phone

768
00:41:02,599 --> 00:41:06,079
automatically sends your location and other info like photos audio

769
00:41:06,199 --> 00:41:09,360
on some androids to preset emergency contact. See why it's

770
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,559
good to have an Android saying.

771
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 3: Well, Apple phone now has satellite messaging. Yeah, mine's got

772
00:41:14,599 --> 00:41:15,400
that's kind of nice.

773
00:41:15,639 --> 00:41:16,119
Speaker 4: Yeah.

774
00:41:16,199 --> 00:41:19,079
Speaker 2: So when the military star teams use the SOS ping,

775
00:41:19,119 --> 00:41:21,440
they're actively communicating with your phone to find you, not

776
00:41:21,639 --> 00:41:26,000
just you triggering a general SOS features like Apple's Emergency

777
00:41:26,039 --> 00:41:28,880
SUS via satellite or Android's Emergency SOS.

778
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 4: So that's really cool.

779
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:34,199
Speaker 2: They created a tiny cell network to directly communicate.

780
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,639
Speaker 3: In the helicopter and then they send a ping and

781
00:41:35,679 --> 00:41:37,719
they just automatically can get your location.

782
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 4: That's really cool.

783
00:41:39,519 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 2: So yeah, I guess because if they're moving around, they

784
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,119
can triangulate through their motion on if they're receiving the

785
00:41:44,159 --> 00:41:45,360
ping back and forth.

786
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 3: Or they're using the GPS on the phone, Yeah, to

787
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:52,599
calculate the coordinates. The sad part is this tells us

788
00:41:52,639 --> 00:41:56,639
that her phone was either off, damaged, or not in

789
00:41:56,679 --> 00:41:57,079
the park.

790
00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:57,679
Speaker 4: Yeah.

791
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 3: Another reason why you bring your phone even if there's

792
00:42:01,039 --> 00:42:03,880
no cell service. I always would bring my phone with

793
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:05,880
some battery packs to keep it charge because I want

794
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:06,519
to take pictures.

795
00:42:06,559 --> 00:42:08,559
Speaker 2: I want to take pictures, and you always have. I've

796
00:42:08,599 --> 00:42:10,239
been on the top of a mountain and then all

797
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:11,719
of a sudden, I'll get like a signal.

798
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 4: I always choke with people.

799
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 3: The place where I used to live, which was an

800
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:19,960
urban area around where we our studio is I got

801
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,079
better cell phone reception on the top of Mountaineer than

802
00:42:23,079 --> 00:42:25,960
I did at my house, which was baffling.

803
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,119
Speaker 2: The mele Well, it's all lead paint. Yeah, yeah, it's

804
00:42:29,119 --> 00:42:33,119
an old house. But yeah, so besides just phones take

805
00:42:33,159 --> 00:42:35,960
great pictures. This is another reason why you should have

806
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,159
your phone with And I guess logically should have thought

807
00:42:38,159 --> 00:42:40,360
they had this capability, but I we've never covered a

808
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:41,320
case where they've used this.

809
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's pretty wild. So that's really cool that they

810
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:45,960
can do that. So I just thought that was kind

811
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,760
of cool, little nerdy, but.

812
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've never heard of that before. That's really awesome. Yeah.

813
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 3: So it's now Thursday, November eighth of twenty twenty two.

814
00:42:53,639 --> 00:42:57,039
This is when the search was sadly moved into a

815
00:42:57,079 --> 00:43:01,199
limited and continuous operation. This sadly happens with every search.

816
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:05,920
There's only there's finite resources. They can't search forever, and

817
00:43:07,119 --> 00:43:10,360
with conditions the way they were, they're putting searchers lives

818
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:14,119
in danger out there. In conditions like this, the helicopters

819
00:43:14,159 --> 00:43:17,159
are flying, they have very brief windows they can get

820
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,760
up and do search operations, and you got to imagine

821
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,719
in a mountainous area like this, there's gonna be lots

822
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:26,519
of wind in turbulence, and it's it just puts everyone's

823
00:43:26,559 --> 00:43:30,079
lives in danger. And obviously these searchers do it. They

824
00:43:30,079 --> 00:43:33,000
don't you know that. Joe and I always say every

825
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,519
episode that the people that do these search and rescue

826
00:43:35,519 --> 00:43:39,599
operations are amazing, Like, it's amazing people that don't know

827
00:43:39,679 --> 00:43:43,559
you will go out and risk their lives to find you. Yep,

828
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,119
you could be the world's biggest jerk and it doesn't matter.

829
00:43:46,119 --> 00:43:49,000
They're gonna go out and look for you. Yeah, it's

830
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,280
pretty amazing people like that on the planet.

831
00:43:52,199 --> 00:43:52,280
Speaker 4: That.

832
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:52,599
Speaker 2: Yeah.

833
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, the large scale active search was ending. Searchers would

834
00:43:57,559 --> 00:44:02,480
continue intermittently as weather, environmental conditions, and other factors allowed.

835
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:07,400
The official search lasted for about seven days. A Roughly

836
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,280
fifteen state and government agencies were involved in the search,

837
00:44:10,639 --> 00:44:14,199
and sadly it was ended due to weather. MPs gave

838
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:18,920
a final update on November eleventh, summarizing information about Laura

839
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,519
and what happened during the search and rescue operation. After

840
00:44:22,559 --> 00:44:27,519
the search and rescue operation was concluded, family statements shared

841
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:31,719
in the Laura Search and Rescue Group that it concluded

842
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,800
and survivability was not expected. This was consistent with the

843
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:40,679
shift to a limited search status, and the MPs Investigative

844
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:45,360
Services Branch known as ISB continues to accept tips and

845
00:44:45,519 --> 00:44:49,119
maintains the case isn't open and unresolved to this day.

846
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,360
From March twenty fourth to twenty fifth of twenty twenty three,

847
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,400
Laura's father and sister organized a volunteer search. They met

848
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,400
at eight am at Graves Creek trailhead on both days.

849
00:45:01,079 --> 00:45:03,960
Their focus was between Pony Bridge and Fire Creek. They

850
00:45:04,079 --> 00:45:06,880
and they chose this time because they figured groundcover would

851
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,440
be shorter, the snow would be receding, and river levels

852
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:14,719
would be lower, which could help maybe find some of

853
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,159
her gear, maybe her remains. The biggest things that we

854
00:45:18,199 --> 00:45:21,440
don't know from this case is we don't know her

855
00:45:22,039 --> 00:45:26,320
last known point on the trail, which is a real

856
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:28,880
negative because it does you know, searchers know where her

857
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,480
car was. But this as Joe is showing these maps

858
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,639
and trails, it's a massive area, very rugged, and not

859
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,880
having an exact location of where they like. It would

860
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,440
been great if a hiker had seen her walking in

861
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,880
one of the trailheads, because searchers would for sure know Okay,

862
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,960
she was here at some point, but we sadly don't

863
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:52,199
know exactly where she might have gone.

864
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 4: What do you got for us, Joe? Breaking news? Yeah,

865
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:55,960
breaking news.

866
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 2: There's a post that this hasn't been quantified because I

867
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,639
was just digging through the search and rescue. The Fouller

868
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:06,280
of Sullivan Foundation said they posted there with the family'sion permission,

869
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,519
providing information that on eight fifteen of twenty three, some

870
00:46:10,559 --> 00:46:13,840
evidence has been washed down from the Cannault River. Laura's

871
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,639
sister wrote that a piece of tent matching the color

872
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:20,320
and brand of Laura's tent was found downstream of where

873
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,480
her tent fly was located in the fall of twenty two.

874
00:46:24,079 --> 00:46:27,360
In Laura's shirt pictured below was also washed down the

875
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,119
Cannault River. And that's where we got the video for

876
00:46:30,559 --> 00:46:32,760
where the kayakers are. So there is a picture of

877
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,480
a shirt that matches that. That's interesting, So washed down

878
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,639
and that's the shirt, she said, literally, and that's a

879
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:40,400
unique shirt.

880
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's literally okay, And when was that stuff found?

881
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,599
Speaker 2: So it said the tent fly was found in fall

882
00:46:47,639 --> 00:46:51,519
of twenty two and the shirt was in eight fifteen

883
00:46:51,559 --> 00:46:54,280
to twenty three. This was posted on June second of

884
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:58,440
twenty twenty. So the tent fly that could be anybody's.

885
00:46:58,519 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 3: That could be anybody's. That is pretty unique though. That

886
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:05,679
shirt is pretty unique. So obviously this was all found well,

887
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,320
the tent fly. The tent fly didn't come up in

888
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,000
the my research for the search and rescue maybe because

889
00:47:11,039 --> 00:47:14,639
it's not verifiably Yeah, it's just it's a post on

890
00:47:14,639 --> 00:47:15,440
the Facebook group.

891
00:47:15,599 --> 00:47:18,599
Speaker 2: It could be hers, it might not be. Yeah, that

892
00:47:18,679 --> 00:47:21,719
shirt that looks like hers. That looks like hers. You

893
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,440
can even see the little reflection on the arm. That's

894
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,679
a unique shirt. That's not just like I've never t shirt.

895
00:47:28,119 --> 00:47:30,280
I've never seen a shirt like this. And they said

896
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,199
she hiked in that all the time, that was like

897
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:33,440
her hiking shirt, and I get that.

898
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 3: I've got a couple of shirts that like I always wear.

899
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,480
There was a shirt I would wear every hiking trip.

900
00:47:38,559 --> 00:47:40,599
And if you'd found that with like a bone in it,

901
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:43,920
just assume it was me. Yeah, because half the pictures

902
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,280
of me hiking are in that shirt.

903
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:45,760
Speaker 4: That's what I have.

904
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,079
Speaker 2: I have one of the bear Grills button downs. Yeah,

905
00:47:48,119 --> 00:47:50,960
it's one of my favorite shirts. Yeah, yeah, that is

906
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,920
totally looks like hers. Okay, so that's.

907
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,679
Speaker 4: I'm not even showing the screen. Have you been showing it.

908
00:47:56,639 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 2: At all this No, because I didn't want him to

909
00:47:58,519 --> 00:48:00,840
read before that gotcha. But when I was showing the

910
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,079
other stuff, I was yes, I turn before, so no

911
00:48:03,119 --> 00:48:03,639
one would read.

912
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 4: That is what you get with our podcast Live Breaking News. Yeah.

913
00:48:07,039 --> 00:48:09,400
While I was about to say nothing was found, That's

914
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:09,760
why I.

915
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 2: Wrote it in there, I was typing particularly as like, actually,

916
00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:16,639
that is very interesting that I have. I'm going to

917
00:48:16,679 --> 00:48:19,920
adjust my theories. It doesn't look too damaged. There's a

918
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,639
couple holes in it. Yeah, I mean it's been out

919
00:48:22,639 --> 00:48:24,679
there for a few years. Yeah, but that's kind of

920
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:29,119
what I'm saying. Yeah, it looks pretty well preserved. Interesting.

921
00:48:29,559 --> 00:48:32,519
Speaker 3: Okay, so we found a tent fly and a piece

922
00:48:32,519 --> 00:48:33,840
of tent that I'm not going.

923
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:35,800
Speaker 2: To share anymore because they have their theories here too.

924
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,400
That okay, So it's kind of what I was thinking,

925
00:48:38,679 --> 00:48:39,440
just to recap.

926
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 3: The official search didn't state anything was found, and I'm

927
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:48,199
guessing the tent fly may have been found after the

928
00:48:48,199 --> 00:48:48,840
search ended.

929
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:50,199
Speaker 4: The search.

930
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:53,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like years later, well, twenty two, it's

931
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:54,119
a year year later.

932
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,320
Speaker 3: She went missing. In twenty twenty two. It said fall

933
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:01,719
of twenty two. Oh yeah it did, but fall that

934
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,559
includes late November, right, that's still fall.

935
00:49:05,079 --> 00:49:05,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

936
00:49:06,119 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 3: My guess is the tent fly, which I don't know

937
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,840
that you could theoretically verify if that was hers or not.

938
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,920
It could be someone else's tent. But that shirt was

939
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,920
found in twenty twenty three, and they posted that in

940
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:20,880
twenty twenty four.

941
00:49:21,679 --> 00:49:24,079
Speaker 4: That is her shirt. Yes, I think there's no doubt

942
00:49:24,079 --> 00:49:26,679
about it. Yeah, I would also agree. I think that's

943
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:28,920
definitely hers. I'm not showing the screen anymore. I'm reading

944
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:30,599
okay comments.

945
00:49:30,199 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 3: So, okay, there was some physical evidence. So there was

946
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:38,960
no physical evidence found at the time of the search,

947
00:49:39,039 --> 00:49:44,840
so footprints, camp remnants, gear. Oh okay, So did you write

948
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,519
that other part or did I add that? Did I

949
00:49:48,079 --> 00:49:51,760
just put you just put the capitol letters? Yeah, okay,

950
00:49:52,639 --> 00:49:54,960
So I guess I didn't read far enough in my

951
00:49:55,039 --> 00:49:55,960
own research.

952
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,559
Speaker 4: Well, this is a random post on the well.

953
00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:03,039
Speaker 3: They did have in here that items were washed out

954
00:50:03,079 --> 00:50:05,559
that meet the criteria for items she may have had.

955
00:50:06,639 --> 00:50:09,840
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's so, I mean, and that's that's true. Yeah,

956
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,840
that's this can never be confirmed unless they found like

957
00:50:14,079 --> 00:50:16,639
a bone fragment and they did a DNA analysis whatever.

958
00:50:16,679 --> 00:50:19,880
So technically I would say a tent fly that's green.

959
00:50:20,119 --> 00:50:22,320
I've seen a thousand of them. Yeah, I'm not the

960
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,719
tent stuff, but that shirt is very So she was

961
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,079
hiking there and then someone else just happened to randomly

962
00:50:29,159 --> 00:50:31,920
go missing, lose their shirt and then they find it. Yeah,

963
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,039
or just lose that shirt specifically in that timeframe.

964
00:50:35,159 --> 00:50:37,519
Speaker 4: That's a very unique shirt. That's a very unique shirt.

965
00:50:37,559 --> 00:50:38,000
I agree.

966
00:50:38,159 --> 00:50:40,159
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'll put this back up, which is the

967
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:41,119
side by side.

968
00:50:41,559 --> 00:50:44,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's definitely her shirt. Yeah, I think there's no

969
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,199
doubt about it. What would the odds be of that

970
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:50,119
same shirt being found in the area where she went missed?

971
00:50:50,199 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 4: Very low? Very low. Yeah.

972
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 3: So now the question remains, all right, you found the shirt,

973
00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:00,159
where's all the other gear? So very interesting, and you

974
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,199
dropped a little breaking news bomb.

975
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,760
Speaker 2: I know that's yeah. We'll do it live. We'll do

976
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,679
it live. So what are your theories?

977
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:11,280
Speaker 3: Okay, most everything's changed, No, ha'd nothing changed. I think

978
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,679
this just I think this just solidifies the most likely theory.

979
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,719
So I had the most likely theory as accidental injury

980
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:22,519
followed by exposure hypothermia. So the theory goes Laura is

981
00:51:22,559 --> 00:51:25,960
injured on or near the trail and is unable to continue.

982
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:30,199
With heavy rain, snow, and near freezing temperatures, hypothermia sets

983
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:34,280
and quickly. This fits this case because we had a

984
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,079
significant rainstorm that came in on October thirtieth, the day

985
00:51:37,119 --> 00:51:40,519
she entered the back country. Temperatures were near freezing at

986
00:51:40,679 --> 00:51:44,239
the Lake Couanault and below freezing at higher elevations of

987
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:48,239
the search area. Her permit indicated she was still expected

988
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,559
to be out on November one, meaning she would have

989
00:51:50,599 --> 00:51:56,039
been in the storm for multiple days. She Sadly, most

990
00:51:56,119 --> 00:52:00,519
media outlets, local media outlets presumed she had died passed

991
00:52:00,519 --> 00:52:04,880
away out there. From the exposure element of this and

992
00:52:05,159 --> 00:52:07,719
this trail, the trail she would have been on is

993
00:52:08,559 --> 00:52:12,639
would have contained slick roots, steep eroded sections, and side

994
00:52:12,639 --> 00:52:15,400
slopes where you know, just even a minor slip can

995
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:20,719
result in a disabling injury. And this all aligns with

996
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:25,320
storm timing, terrain, and the complete lack of communication or return.

997
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,800
It also explains why she was not located during the

998
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,199
early search and rescue if she had been a mobile

999
00:52:31,199 --> 00:52:37,079
and off the trail, and adding in the hypothermia element

1000
00:52:37,119 --> 00:52:41,400
to it, the fact that they found that shirt. Maybe

1001
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:45,920
she was doing the paradoxical undressing and taking items of

1002
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:50,039
clothing off potentially, Yeah, because the shirt didn't look very damaged. No,

1003
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:53,480
I don't want to get too graphic, but you got

1004
00:52:53,519 --> 00:52:58,440
to imagine if someone passes away out there and their

1005
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:02,840
clothing is on them as nature takes a hold, that

1006
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:08,079
clothing is gonna get discolored. Animals are gonna scavenge, and

1007
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:13,239
it's gonna be more torn up. That shirt looked pretty clean. Yeah,

1008
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:14,800
and there was only a couple holes in it.

1009
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a couple holes and it looked like I'll

1010
00:53:17,159 --> 00:53:19,960
pull that back up. A couple holes in it looked

1011
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,400
like the zipper was separating from the Yeah, but like

1012
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:24,719
that's not crazy.

1013
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,320
Speaker 3: But that doesn't look like an article of clothing that

1014
00:53:28,559 --> 00:53:30,599
was with the remains.

1015
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 4: Yeh. See, this is the zipper. I don't know what

1016
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:33,719
they call that.

1017
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,800
Speaker 2: It's the the two part pieces of fabric that the

1018
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:39,960
zipper goes on. It's separating from the rest of the

1019
00:53:40,039 --> 00:53:42,559
shirt because it zips up the middle. But yeah, there's

1020
00:53:42,599 --> 00:53:46,000
a hole there, a hole there, and it's in pretty

1021
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:46,599
good shape.

1022
00:53:46,639 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 3: There's no discoloration on it. Yeah, there's no signs of

1023
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,840
animal scavenging on it.

1024
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 4: It looks pretty well preserved. Yeah, there's no blood stains.

1025
00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 3: There's no blood, so like now, granted it maybe over

1026
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,199
time those stains would fade, but I mean it looks

1027
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:06,679
pretty clean. You would maybe if someone had a traumatic

1028
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:10,119
injury like broken arm in the bone came through the skin, you.

1029
00:54:10,079 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 4: Would have a lot of blood.

1030
00:54:12,039 --> 00:54:15,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, pins, I really feel like the stuff that's wrong

1031
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,440
with it is what would happen if your shirt washed

1032
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,679
down a really violent river. Yeah, and it got stuck

1033
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,800
on some sticks branches, yeah, and washed out. Yeah, that

1034
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:25,559
looks pretty is my completely uneducated opinion.

1035
00:54:25,599 --> 00:54:26,760
Speaker 4: That is not based for.

1036
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 3: Being out there, and that was found in twenty twenty three,

1037
00:54:30,039 --> 00:54:33,280
So a full year out in the wilderness.

1038
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 4: Interesting. Next, likely kids.

1039
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,760
Speaker 2: Leave shoes outside that look worse than this, Yeah, like

1040
00:54:39,039 --> 00:54:41,360
just in our lawn through a couple storms.

1041
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1042
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:45,800
Speaker 3: The next logical theory is a river or creek accident.

1043
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,599
So the theory goes, Laura slips into the East Fork,

1044
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,880
Quinault River or a tributary during high water and is

1045
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:55,880
swept down stream. This fits very well with this case

1046
00:54:55,960 --> 00:55:00,000
because of the storm driven rainfall significantly raises water level.

1047
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:04,840
This would make riverbanks very slick and crossings hazardous. This

1048
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,079
also is in line with how the search and rescue

1049
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:10,400
were going about their operation. They deployed boats and drones

1050
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:13,960
along the river corridor, which indicated a concern for a

1051
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:18,480
water related incident. And this river from the videos Joe

1052
00:55:18,559 --> 00:55:21,719
is showing it, it contains lots of log jams, undercut banks,

1053
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:25,719
and deep channels that could conceal remains for a long

1054
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:28,920
period of time. So I think now that we found

1055
00:55:29,039 --> 00:55:33,239
the shirt and possibly tent fragments washing up, this is

1056
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:37,920
a very likely scenario. Another theory off route travel into steep,

1057
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:42,480
dense timber followed by exposure. So this theory goes she

1058
00:55:42,599 --> 00:55:46,320
leaves the maintained trail intentionally or unintentionally and enters steep

1059
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:48,960
brushfield terrain that is difficult to search and survive.

1060
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 4: This fits with this case.

1061
00:55:51,519 --> 00:55:55,360
Speaker 3: The enchanted Valley corridor has very thick vegetation, slippery slopes,

1062
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:58,159
drainage gullies where a visibility from the trail or air

1063
00:55:58,199 --> 00:56:01,559
would be very limited, and the star teams did search

1064
00:56:01,679 --> 00:56:04,920
both trail and off trail areas, but it's so thick

1065
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:08,920
and we got blowed down and ravines. This all reduces

1066
00:56:09,039 --> 00:56:11,480
the possibility of detection, and she doesn't seem like the

1067
00:56:11,519 --> 00:56:14,960
person who goes off trail. No, she's following all the rules,

1068
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:17,800
she's doing all the right things, So I don't really

1069
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:21,639
think that jives. Yeah, her family even described conditions including

1070
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:25,039
down trees, flooded sections, low visibility during the storm, which

1071
00:56:25,199 --> 00:56:28,920
all align with this theory. So I think that's a

1072
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:32,760
real possible less likely theories. I'll just briefly cover here

1073
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:38,119
A sudden medical emergency. She seemed very fit, physically active,

1074
00:56:38,559 --> 00:56:42,280
She's thirty five, no known medical conditions. I would imagine

1075
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:44,639
if she had some kind of chronic condition that would

1076
00:56:44,639 --> 00:56:46,639
have come out during the search and rest, somebody would

1077
00:56:46,639 --> 00:56:47,039
have said.

1078
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:47,599
Speaker 4: Something about it.

1079
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,159
Speaker 3: And we always say, if you're hiking down the trail

1080
00:56:50,199 --> 00:56:51,679
and you have a heart attack right on the trail,

1081
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:55,480
you're going to be found by search and rescue. It.

1082
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:59,480
I don't think a medical emergency happened. We always mention

1083
00:56:59,559 --> 00:57:02,840
it because it does happen. But intentional self harm, I

1084
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:06,519
don't think this one is plausible in this case. Family

1085
00:57:06,559 --> 00:57:09,639
accounts describe her as engaged with work, passionate about hiking,

1086
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:14,519
excited about the trip. There were no behavioral indicators that

1087
00:57:14,559 --> 00:57:16,760
would point into the direction. I just always mention it

1088
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:20,360
because our last case, the guy who went missing twice

1089
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:24,440
in sand Dune's National Park, I think maybe if it

1090
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,199
wasn't intentional self harm, it was something going on with

1091
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:29,679
him that caused him to go back there, but I

1092
00:57:29,679 --> 00:57:32,239
don't think that's a possibility in this case. And finally,

1093
00:57:32,559 --> 00:57:38,199
just foul play by an unknown person, and that's pretty logical.

1094
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,280
You can figure out how that theory goes, but it

1095
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,039
doesn't fit this case. Or vehicle didn't show any signs

1096
00:57:44,039 --> 00:57:46,960
of disturbance or break in or unusual activities. There are

1097
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:50,559
no reports of suspicious individuals or vehicles in the area.

1098
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:55,039
The route is remote but does not have a pattern

1099
00:57:55,119 --> 00:57:58,079
of foul play in cases, so it's a pretty safe

1100
00:57:58,119 --> 00:58:02,840
area to hike, and search and rescue teams found no physical, electronic,

1101
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,239
or situational evidence suggesting him for crime, so probably not.

1102
00:58:06,519 --> 00:58:09,519
And that kind of weather, most people aren't gonna be

1103
00:58:09,559 --> 00:58:11,800
out there with a storm like that rolling in, So

1104
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:14,159
she probably was. Probably one of the reasons why no

1105
00:58:14,199 --> 00:58:17,840
one sorrow was Probably was there anyone out there hiking? Yeah,

1106
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:21,239
so yeah, I think logical theory for me, she got

1107
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:25,440
out there, rivers swelled and she either maybe fell in,

1108
00:58:25,599 --> 00:58:28,679
got out, got hypothermia, or she fell in and was

1109
00:58:29,559 --> 00:58:32,159
passed away in the one of the rivers or creeks.

1110
00:58:33,159 --> 00:58:36,559
That shirt, I mean, we know she was out there. Yeah,

1111
00:58:36,599 --> 00:58:38,679
that's her shirt, There's no doubt about it.

1112
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:39,679
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1113
00:58:39,719 --> 00:58:43,679
Speaker 2: I feel like she fell and got swept by the river. Yeah,

1114
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:47,559
and she had all of her stuff with her, and

1115
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:50,199
so far, the only things that have been washed out

1116
00:58:50,239 --> 00:58:52,039
had been the shirt and the tent fly or the

1117
00:58:52,079 --> 00:58:54,880
tent piece. So I think like with all those strain

1118
00:58:55,039 --> 00:58:57,639
if there's that deluge of water and those valleys are

1119
00:58:57,719 --> 00:58:59,679
so steep, so you have to think about all that

1120
00:58:59,719 --> 00:59:03,480
water just filtering right to that river, and it's really

1121
00:59:03,639 --> 00:59:05,000
it's probably super violent.

1122
00:59:05,159 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1123
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 2: We watched the kayakers on a day where it was

1124
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:10,079
sunny and it was pretty violent, so you could imagine

1125
00:59:10,119 --> 00:59:12,440
what it looks like when it's just swelled up, tons.

1126
00:59:12,199 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 4: Of water going. Yeah.

1127
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:15,199
Speaker 2: I feel like she probably got in there, maybe had

1128
00:59:15,199 --> 00:59:18,119
her backpack on, and got caught a strainer point or something.

1129
00:59:18,199 --> 00:59:19,039
Speaker 4: And that's why I searched.

1130
00:59:19,039 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 2: She didn't find any of her gear exactly, because it

1131
00:59:21,519 --> 00:59:24,639
all That's why I thought like, maybe if like they

1132
00:59:24,719 --> 00:59:27,960
found stuff and if those tent sites are the campsites,

1133
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:29,800
maybe rain could have pushed it in the river, but

1134
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:32,079
then you'd find other stuff. Yeah, that's why I feel

1135
00:59:32,079 --> 00:59:34,920
like she had everything on her and potentially had a slip.

1136
00:59:35,519 --> 00:59:38,480
And then if you slip and fall onto that Yeah,

1137
00:59:38,519 --> 00:59:40,440
with that much rain, you're not getting out of.

1138
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:42,599
Speaker 3: It, especially if you got a heavy pack. Because it

1139
00:59:42,679 --> 00:59:46,000
said she was prepared for multi day hikes, so yeah,

1140
00:59:46,039 --> 00:59:47,480
her pack probably was pretty heavy.

1141
00:59:48,079 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 4: That's going to act like an anchor in that kind

1142
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:50,400
of water. Yeah.

1143
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:52,320
Speaker 2: And if you're not in a river crossing, like what

1144
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:54,039
if she slipped in when she was on the trail,

1145
00:59:54,079 --> 00:59:56,000
it's gonna be buckled in everywhere.

1146
00:59:56,159 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1147
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 2: And if you get injured on the way down or

1148
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,119
knocked out and you're attached to that thing, it's not

1149
01:00:01,159 --> 01:00:03,719
going to be good. And else I think that to

1150
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,679
me is the most plausible. Yeah, something like that, just

1151
01:00:06,719 --> 01:00:09,119
because the only evidence we've seen is come out in

1152
01:00:09,119 --> 01:00:09,480
the river.

1153
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:13,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think that's my theory. I think it's

1154
01:00:13,039 --> 01:00:13,639
a good theory.

1155
01:00:14,559 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 2: Well, let us know what you think on our Facebook

1156
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:20,840
or Instagram. Thanks again for tuning into our show. We

1157
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:23,599
appreciate all of you for listening and sharing locations known

1158
01:00:23,639 --> 01:00:25,400
with your friends and family and helping us get in

1159
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:27,440
the top ninety nine percent on Spotify.

1160
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 4: That is so awesome.

1161
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 2: That's really really cool. And how many like million minutes

1162
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:33,039
of listening was it or something?

1163
01:00:33,039 --> 01:00:33,239
Speaker 4: It was?

1164
01:00:33,239 --> 01:00:37,599
Speaker 3: It was thirteen million minutes or twenty four years straight,

1165
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:38,760
just this.

1166
01:00:38,719 --> 01:00:39,639
Speaker 4: Year, just this year.

1167
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 2: Thank you for spending thirteen million minutes with us cumulative.

1168
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,440
Be sure to like and follow us on Facebook, Instagram,

1169
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,039
and Twitter, and YouTube, where you can find videos of

1170
01:00:49,039 --> 01:00:52,280
each episode. Also, if you want to support the show monetarily,

1171
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:54,760
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1172
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:59,719
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01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:07,079
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1175
01:01:07,119 --> 01:01:09,639
about awesome new cases that we're not talking about just

1176
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yet that we're about to record about ahead of everybody

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else for paid customers only. And lastly, when enjoying the

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beauty of nature, whether backpacking, camping, or simply taking a walk,

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always remember to leave no trace.

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Speaker 4: Thanks. We will see you all next time.