WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>You're on the bus an hour from home in bumper

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<v Speaker 1>to bumper traffic, creeping forward a few inches at a time,

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<v Speaker 1>Someone's kids are screaming, and suddenly your back is too. Luckily,

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<v Speaker 1>Panadal extra film coated tablets are boosted by caffeine and

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<v Speaker 1>they get to work in as little as ten minutes

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<v Speaker 1>for powerful relief. That's more than just paracetamol. That's one

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<v Speaker 1>for Pana doll speed based on absorption data contains paracetamol.

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<v Speaker 1>Always read the label or.

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<v Speaker 2>Leaflet get value.

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<v Speaker 3>rainbow root vegetables. And enjoy Goozillionaire or Soldier caramel cheesecake.

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<v Speaker 3>Can't argue with that shop in store or online.

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<v Speaker 2>Tesco.

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<v Speaker 3>Every little helps available the most stores, prices very in express.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh hey, it's your bass at a yarn. That's sad

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<v Speaker 2>you gave up on knitting. Ali ward back with another

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<v Speaker 2>farm Fresh episode we just picked for you, and I

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<v Speaker 2>hope that you're hungry for worms. So many worms. Why worms?

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<v Speaker 2>Because before I came down with pneumonia last month, I

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<v Speaker 2>was at USC Wrigley Institute on the island of Catalina

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<v Speaker 2>teaching a sycom symposium to this group of really enthusiastic

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<v Speaker 2>and endearing climate scientists and biologists who were just raren

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<v Speaker 2>to get up on these mics, and I took advantage

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<v Speaker 2>of their zeal and I asked them all about what

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<v Speaker 2>they do, because it's not every day that you get

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<v Speaker 2>to sit on two twin beds in a seaside cabin

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<v Speaker 2>with a worm expert, so I did this. Guest has

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<v Speaker 2>been a research associate in the Department of Zoology at

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<v Speaker 2>the Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History, an assistant professor

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<v Speaker 2>in the Department of Mematology at USC Riverside, and is

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<v Speaker 2>now an assistant professor in the Department of Marine Sciences

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<v Speaker 2>at the University of Georgia and runs her own lab

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<v Speaker 2>looking at deep sea ecosystems, and has literally traveled to

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<v Speaker 2>the ends of the Earth to ask what is in

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<v Speaker 2>that mud? I love her, but I also love you,

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<v Speaker 2>and thank you again patrons at patreon dot com slash

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<v Speaker 2>ologies for being so supportive during the break I took

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<v Speaker 2>to get healthier. We could not do the show without you,

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<v Speaker 2>and it costs just a buck a month to join

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<v Speaker 2>and submit your questions before our interviews. Thank you also

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<v Speaker 2>to everyone wrapping the program via ologiesmerch dot com. We

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<v Speaker 2>have cozy sweatshirts and hats and all kinds of efemera.

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<v Speaker 2>And thank you to everyone who just tells others about

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<v Speaker 2>the show. I appreciate that you can go to ologies

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<v Speaker 2>dot com for a full menu of categorized episodes. And

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<v Speaker 2>also thank you, of course for the reviews. I read

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<v Speaker 2>every single one to hear about folks who have conpack

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<v Speaker 2>to school, or rediscovered a love of nature, or road

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<v Speaker 2>tripped across the continent with us. I love it this week.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you for the review Willow loves Dinosaurs, who wrote

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<v Speaker 2>that even when an episode drops about a topic I'm

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<v Speaker 2>ambivalent toward or even actively uninterested in, as soon as

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<v Speaker 2>I press play, I'm hooked. This one's for you, And

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<v Speaker 2>also Fiddler to Be, who wrote the review that says

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<v Speaker 2>thank you for pre digesting science for us and lovingly

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<v Speaker 2>regurgitating it into our ears like a mama bird with

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<v Speaker 2>bad aim. Everyone, it's an honor to be of service. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>let's talk worms. So Bentho means deep, pelagic means sea,

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<v Speaker 2>and nematode comes from the Greek for threadlike, So let's

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<v Speaker 2>talk skinny little worms at the bottom of the cold,

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<v Speaker 2>dark sea. What are their lives like? What do they

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<v Speaker 2>think about? Are they in love? Curl up my wormis

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<v Speaker 2>for a talk about weird little mouths, hairy worms, demon nematodes,

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<v Speaker 2>Anarctic exploration, mud collections, submersibles, moisturizers, deep sea mining, pork

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<v Speaker 2>chop risks, and more with your new friend Bentho pelagic nematologist,

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<v Speaker 2>doctor Holly Vick.

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<v Speaker 4>Normally people aren't so excited about worms.

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<v Speaker 5>I am Hollybig. I am an associate professor at the

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<v Speaker 5>University of Georgia and the Department of Marine Sciences, and

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<v Speaker 5>my pronouns are she and her. I see you have

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<v Speaker 5>a deck of worms with you. I do have a

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<v Speaker 5>deck of worms with worms.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>When I saw you holding these earlier, I thought they

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<v Speaker 2>were business cards.

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<v Speaker 4>They aren't business cards. What are they? They are?

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<v Speaker 5>So I work on microscopic worms that are extremely hard

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<v Speaker 5>to see. So when I say I work on nematodes

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<v Speaker 5>or nematodes, I did my page in the UK, so

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<v Speaker 5>that's what I say.

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<v Speaker 4>Uh, people are like, what are those?

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<v Speaker 5>And often I find it easy to carry around this

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<v Speaker 5>deck of business cards so that after people meet me

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<v Speaker 5>they can always remember, can.

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<v Speaker 2>I see one? Like what do they have on them?

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<v Speaker 2>So ooh, look at that? Is that it's face or

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<v Speaker 2>its asshole?

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<v Speaker 4>That is its face? That's its head?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh it's beautiful, it's very sphincterous. Yes, and then what

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<v Speaker 2>are Okay, it looks like I'm looking at a hose

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<v Speaker 2>of some sort with a like a claw as a face.

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<v Speaker 2>And then what are these dingled aangles all around it?

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<v Speaker 2>I really don't know how to describe this gracefully, so

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<v Speaker 2>I'll just be honest. This particular worm looks like a

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<v Speaker 2>tube of wrinkly skin with a clawd buttthole face with

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<v Speaker 2>a crown of ribbed ponytails, just a natural beauty.

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<v Speaker 5>Those are well, so we call them CT but they're

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<v Speaker 5>like hairs that project way far out. So that species

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<v Speaker 5>is special because it has really long hairs all around

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<v Speaker 5>its head. And actually, the way we describe species is

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<v Speaker 5>you count, so the hairs are current circles, and you

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<v Speaker 5>basically count how many rows of circles of hairs there are,

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<v Speaker 5>and then you count how many pairs of hairs in

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<v Speaker 5>that circle. So you literally have to like go on

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<v Speaker 5>your microscope and count all the hairs, and if the

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<v Speaker 5>species has six hairs, it's that species. And if it

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<v Speaker 5>has ten hairs, it's that species. And we don't actually

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<v Speaker 5>know whether that means anything because most people don't get

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<v Speaker 5>DNA sequences from the worms. And sometimes worms will look

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<v Speaker 5>the same but actually be quite different, or vice versa.

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<v Speaker 5>They'll look really different but they're actually the same.

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<v Speaker 2>Is this electron scanning microscope or what kind of microscope

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<v Speaker 2>do you use to see these worms?

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<v Speaker 5>Elect Yeah, electron microscopy.

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<v Speaker 2>She showed me another few worm cards, one that looked

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<v Speaker 2>like the thick scales of a crocodile but with a

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<v Speaker 2>slit for a mouth, and another resembling cactus wearing like

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<v Speaker 2>a cable knit sock. And these things they're just living

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<v Speaker 2>their lives in the mud in Antarctica. They don't give

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<v Speaker 2>a shit about you, And I respect that.

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<v Speaker 5>That's given of the nematode can be plate like, so

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<v Speaker 5>kind of like armor.

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<v Speaker 4>And these cuticles. This one is.

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<v Speaker 5>Striated, this one is kind of smooth. This one is

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<v Speaker 5>like punctures sweater. Yeah, this one's like armor. This one

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<v Speaker 5>has a smooth cuticle, so you can't actually see much.

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<v Speaker 5>It's really just smooth.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, worms with scales. But let's talk scale.

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<v Speaker 5>How tiny the technically they're like a millimeter to five

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<v Speaker 5>millimeters long. But the way it's easiest to picture the

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<v Speaker 5>worms are the size of an individual speck of dust.

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<v Speaker 5>So you can see them like if you have a

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<v Speaker 5>slide and you hold it up to the light, it

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<v Speaker 5>looks like a little speck of dust. But practically we

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<v Speaker 5>say that they're microscopic.

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<v Speaker 2>And then are they all the cards the same or

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<v Speaker 2>they different?

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<v Speaker 4>No, they're all different. So this is the next one.

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<v Speaker 2>Who's this a fanged orifice rimmed with hair but wearing

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<v Speaker 2>cinnamon earrings? What's happening? Oh wait, it's got a spiral

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<v Speaker 2>on the side of it. That's a perfect spiral.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's amazing. So these are actually like princess leebuns

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<v Speaker 5>on both sides of the worm.

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<v Speaker 4>What do they do?

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<v Speaker 5>They are sensory pores called amphids, and no one knows

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<v Speaker 5>why they're in perfect spirals, but this is my favorite

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<v Speaker 5>taxonomic feature of the worms. We don't know exactly like

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<v Speaker 5>what they do, but we think that they are sensory pores.

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<v Speaker 5>So worms don't have eyes, but they live in mud

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<v Speaker 5>and environments where there's a lot of stuff going on.

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<v Speaker 4>They're a lot going on right now, clearly.

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<v Speaker 5>So the current theory is that it's like sensory pore

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<v Speaker 5>and it detects chemicals because we know that worms can

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<v Speaker 5>migrate towards specific bacteria, so maybe they're scenting metabolites or

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<v Speaker 5>they're basically smelling stuff in the mud and that's what

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<v Speaker 5>they're using to navigate, And we think it all happens

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<v Speaker 5>through those pores. What happened when you zoomed in and

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<v Speaker 5>got to see this for the first time in real life?

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<v Speaker 2>Are you like there it is?

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I mean the spirals are really obvious. Yeah, so

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<v Speaker 5>they're the one of the easiest things to see. But

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<v Speaker 5>not all the nematodes have spirals, just a select subset

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<v Speaker 5>of groups do. But they are absolutely perfect and they

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<v Speaker 5>can get really big too, So sometimes when you put

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<v Speaker 5>them on the microscope, you just see the spiral like

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<v Speaker 5>a slinky kind of in the middle of the worm,

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<v Speaker 5>and it's really obvious and it's really cool.

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<v Speaker 2>So right now, as you drink a horse shot at

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<v Speaker 2>or do squats, there are these teeny tiny, itty bitty

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<v Speaker 2>noodles alive at the bottom of the sea mud with

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<v Speaker 2>Princess Leah buns and sphincter faces and very weird mouths.

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<v Speaker 2>But she loves them, and so do I. That's so

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<v Speaker 2>distracting that I almost didn't notice that there were like

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<v Speaker 2>kitten claws all around this gaping mall.

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<v Speaker 5>Yep, those are the teeth. So that's a predatory species.

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<v Speaker 5>They have retractable mandibles with teeth inside, so it's kind

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<v Speaker 5>of like a wishbone on a chicken with a spike

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<v Speaker 5>in the middle.

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<v Speaker 4>They have three of those.

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<v Speaker 5>They have tri radiant symmetry, and then they'll extend them

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<v Speaker 5>out and then they grab a worm or they grab

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<v Speaker 5>a bacteria or something, and then they pull it back

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<v Speaker 5>in kind of like a sandworm or some weird sci

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<v Speaker 5>fi thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I was going to say this, did you ever see

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<v Speaker 2>like tremors or the pit of Sarlac?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was thinking of Starlac.

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<v Speaker 6>You will therefore be taken to the June Sea and

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<v Speaker 6>cast to the pit of the nesting place of the

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<v Speaker 6>old powerful Sarlac doesn't sound so bad in his belly.

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<v Speaker 6>You will find a new definition of pain and suffering

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<v Speaker 6>as you are slowly digestive over a thousand years.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh. Okay, in this deck of business cards

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't just have worms on it, but the back bears

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<v Speaker 2>her contact info and a very short nematode tiny bio.

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<v Speaker 2>And now the front of the card Deep Sea Biology

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<v Speaker 2>Antarctica nematode worms. In the middle of that is Antarctica. Like,

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<v Speaker 2>there's worms on Antarctica. Yes, on Antarctica and around the ocean.

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<v Speaker 2>So nematodes are literally every handful.

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<v Speaker 5>Of mud, dirt and soil that you pick up. There's

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<v Speaker 5>thousands of nematodes in there. The terrestrial species on land

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<v Speaker 5>are very different from the marine species. Actually, the terrestrial

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<v Speaker 5>nematologists don't really talk to the marine ones. So there's

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<v Speaker 5>some kind of like drama there. Not really, it's really

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<v Speaker 5>just the taxonomy.

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<v Speaker 4>Is very different.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm creating drama, That's what I'm doing. Yeah, so they are.

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<v Speaker 5>They're all the way down in Antarctica. There's nematodes in volcanoes,

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<v Speaker 5>like hot soils in volcanoes. There was a nematod that

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<v Speaker 5>was found a couple miles below the surface of the Earth.

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<v Speaker 5>And like South African diamond mines, and yeah, like literally

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<v Speaker 5>your garden, your lawn, They're everywhere, and everyone ignores them

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<v Speaker 5>and doesn't really know that they're there.

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<v Speaker 2>No one loves worms because they don't know how omnipresent

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<v Speaker 2>they are. Maybe how recently did science figure out like, oh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>there's worms on Antarctica, there are worms in volcanoes. How

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<v Speaker 2>long have people been looking for worms there.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, it's been hard to find them in Antarctica until

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<v Speaker 5>technology kind of got like modern enough, So maybe mid

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<v Speaker 5>twentieth century we started to find them down there when

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<v Speaker 5>people actually went to start sampling and bring back the

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<v Speaker 5>samples preserved in a way that we could look under microscopes.

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<v Speaker 5>And the Antarctic dry valleys are actually really interesting, so

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<v Speaker 5>that dry valleys in Antarctica don't get rain. They haven't

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<v Speaker 5>seen rain since the plist scene.

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<v Speaker 2>No, so some people call the plist de scene by

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<v Speaker 2>its nickname the Ice Age, and it started two and

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<v Speaker 2>a half million years ago up until eleven thousand years ago,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know what, between you and me, it is

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<v Speaker 2>fine to have had to look that up. But yes,

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<v Speaker 2>Antarctica has parts that have been parched since then.

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<v Speaker 5>And you actually find mummified seals in the Antarctic dry

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<v Speaker 5>valleys because it's so dry. And what happens is the

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<v Speaker 5>seals will like wander up a mountain from the ocean

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<v Speaker 5>and then cross over into the dry valley and then

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<v Speaker 5>freak out because there's no food there and there's no

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<v Speaker 5>rain there, and then they just die. And then because

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<v Speaker 5>there's no rain, they become mummified. So when you go

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<v Speaker 5>to study the worms in those places, you're just trap

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<v Speaker 5>seeing amongst the bodies of mummified seals.

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<v Speaker 2>Why doesn't it rain there?

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<v Speaker 5>It's the climate, I mean, Antarctica is just this really

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<v Speaker 5>unique climate. And parts of Antarctica get snow and glacier formation,

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<v Speaker 5>but actually the continent is super dry. So when we

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<v Speaker 5>went on the boat, I mean, the first thing they

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<v Speaker 5>told you to bring is lots of moisturizer.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, how many times have you been there?

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<v Speaker 4>Just once? And I just came back.

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<v Speaker 2>When did you get back? So she had been back

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<v Speaker 2>on unfrozen land for maybe two weeks at the time

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<v Speaker 2>we recorded this, Oh, that was like yesterday.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, so I'm a little bit jet like still tired

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<v Speaker 5>from the trip. It was a three months.

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<v Speaker 2>Three months on Antarctica. How would you set an out

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<v Speaker 2>of office reply? Do you what do you do?

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<v Speaker 5>Yes? I had an email reply. So there's no internet

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<v Speaker 5>down there. We were on a ship around the Antarctic

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<v Speaker 5>Continental Shelf in East Antarctica, So not only were we

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<v Speaker 5>in Antarctica, but we're in like literally the most remote

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<v Speaker 5>part of the remote, most remote place on the planet

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<v Speaker 5>where satellites don't really exist. So if you're on a

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<v Speaker 5>ship anywhere else in the world, normally you have satellite

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<v Speaker 5>internet and you can kind of check your email and

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<v Speaker 5>it's fine. But we had it was basically like being

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<v Speaker 5>back in the nineties. So you had like the equivalent

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<v Speaker 5>of a dial up modem internet speed and for your

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<v Speaker 5>ship internet and then you had a landline phone.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you feel like when you left? I hope nothing

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<v Speaker 2>goes down. Like you mentioned you have kids. Yeah, did

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<v Speaker 2>you have to prepare emotionally, like, Okay, if something happens,

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<v Speaker 2>if there's an emergency, they'll tell me. Were you able

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<v Speaker 2>to put that out of your mind or how long

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<v Speaker 2>did it take to acclimate to the It's okay, someone

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<v Speaker 2>will reach me if they need to.

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<v Speaker 5>So I almost made a will before I went to Antarctica.

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<v Speaker 2>Not a bad idea.

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<v Speaker 5>Not a bad idea, because I was so worried and

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<v Speaker 5>I was like, my husband doesn't know our bank account password,

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<v Speaker 5>like I, you know, I don't know if he knows where,

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<v Speaker 5>Like his birth certificate is, like what if he needs that?

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<v Speaker 4>So I was over prepping.

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<v Speaker 5>I felt like like an apocalypse prepper in the amount

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<v Speaker 5>of notes and instructions that I left for him. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 5>and then things did go wrong when we were down there,

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<v Speaker 5>so we had we had like a catastrophic bathroom leak

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<v Speaker 5>in our master bath and like the ceiling was pouring

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<v Speaker 5>with water. So you prep for everything and then stuff

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<v Speaker 5>still goes wrong unexpectedly. So he was juggling the childcare

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<v Speaker 5>and also like calling plumbers and at three am to

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<v Speaker 5>try to get that sorted.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm glad, to be honest, I'm glad it was at

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<v Speaker 2>your house and not on the ship, because at first,

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<v Speaker 2>when you said a catastrophic ba through issue, I figured

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<v Speaker 2>it was on the ship and I was like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>that had to be very smelly. But no, it's just

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<v Speaker 2>back home, just back home. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, we good luck with that, Yeah, but I couldn't

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<v Speaker 5>do anything about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you learn anything about being so remote? Did you

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<v Speaker 2>learn anything that you've taken away? I know you've only

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<v Speaker 2>been back a couple of weeks, but was there anything

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<v Speaker 2>about that kind of remoteness that made you disconnect now

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<v Speaker 2>that you've been back home or did it make you

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<v Speaker 2>appreciate connection more?

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<v Speaker 4>I would say both.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, I think I really didn't miss the Internet.

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<v Speaker 5>I didn't even try. It was so slow that it

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<v Speaker 5>wasn't even worth it. So I literally brought Tolstoy novels

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<v Speaker 5>to Antarctica because I was like, what is the biggest

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<v Speaker 5>book that I can possibly find that's like vaguely snowy,

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<v Speaker 5>twelve punchrd page Tolstoy novel that sounds great about Russia.

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<v Speaker 5>I actually used Antarctica like to pursue hobbies that I

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<v Speaker 5>always wanted to do. So I bought a really nice

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<v Speaker 5>Nikon DSLR camera, and I gave myself a project to

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<v Speaker 5>learn photography. And I just never have time to do

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<v Speaker 5>that in my everyday life. So I was just up

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<v Speaker 5>whenever it was sunny and there were icebergs. I was

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<v Speaker 5>just outside in all my polar gear, just trying to

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<v Speaker 5>take pictures and practice my photography in addition to doing

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<v Speaker 5>my science, because a lot of those days were the

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<v Speaker 5>days that we were transitting. So you just like you're

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<v Speaker 5>driving through fields and these amazing icebergs and there's sun

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<v Speaker 5>and there's penguins and it's just glorious and that was

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<v Speaker 5>just a really special way to kind of unplug and

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<v Speaker 5>it was really rejuvenating.

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<v Speaker 2>How much sun was there per day.

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<v Speaker 5>So we were there pretty late in the season, but

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<v Speaker 5>it was actually pretty sunny. So we also changed We

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<v Speaker 5>went through time zone changes down so we were supposed

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<v Speaker 5>to go through eleven time zone changes and the captain

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<v Speaker 5>decides when you change the time zone.

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<v Speaker 2>No, yeah, what an ego trip. That's amazing, Father time,

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00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:51.279
<v Speaker 2>Captain time. Holy shit, party time. And let's go back

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<v Speaker 2>to nematodes because a lot of people might be like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>what is what is a worm? Tell us what is

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<v Speaker 2>a nematode? Because there's flatworms and there's round worms and

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<v Speaker 2>never the twain shall meet.

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<v Speaker 5>Right, Yes, flatworms are roundworms are different phyla. So there's

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<v Speaker 5>other types of worms too. There's like oligo keets and polykeets,

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<v Speaker 5>and also there's things that look like worms in the

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<v Speaker 5>ocean that are not actually worms. Nematodes are roundworms by definition,

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<v Speaker 5>and I think the easiest one that everyone would know

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<v Speaker 5>is dog heartworm.

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<v Speaker 2>So the reason, oh, I was gonna say an earthworm.

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<v Speaker 5>No, earthworms are the wrong kind of worms.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, what kind of worms are earthworms?

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<v Speaker 5>Earthworms are anelids. So there are segmented worms.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh. Okay, so we've got roundworms, which are smooth,

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<v Speaker 2>non segmented, and they're round shaped. Then there's flatworms, and

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<v Speaker 2>then there's analids. Anelids aren't a subtype of roundworms. They'rech

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<v Speaker 2>a totally different.

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<v Speaker 5>Thing, totally different things, separate phylum, like way far away

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<v Speaker 5>on the tree of life.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeap, oh my god, this is news to me. For

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<v Speaker 2>some reason, I would have put an earthworm as a

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<v Speaker 2>as a nematode. Okay, so dog heartworm. This is something

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<v Speaker 2>that we have to give our dogs little pills every

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<v Speaker 2>once in a while for So do they tend to

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<v Speaker 2>be parasitic? What do they eat?

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<v Speaker 4>What they eat berries?

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<v Speaker 5>Depending on what type of nematode they are. The parasitic

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<v Speaker 5>ones are designed to well. They evolve to live off

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<v Speaker 5>the hosts, so they will essentially rely on the host

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<v Speaker 5>for their nutrition. I'm not quite sure what they eat

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<v Speaker 5>because I don't study those ones.

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<v Speaker 2>For anyone with pooches who has taken heartworm medication, good job.

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<v Speaker 2>I just read way too much about these wiggly scoundrels.

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<v Speaker 2>And they're transmitted by mosquitoes, and they creep around for

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<v Speaker 2>six months before your dog shows any symptoms, and without treatment,

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<v Speaker 2>they may turn its heart into what looks like a

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<v Speaker 2>dish of glass noodles. And if you are not a

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<v Speaker 2>dog person. They're not the only species that can be afflicted,

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<v Speaker 2>so watch out. Jackals and beavers and wolves and reptiles

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<v Speaker 2>and foxes, raccoons, bears, African leopards, sea lions can get heartworm. Coyotes, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>cats and humans.

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<v Speaker 5>And there's also human parasite. So guinea worm, you know

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<v Speaker 5>that one that like lives up your leg, that's a

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<v Speaker 5>nematode too. Oncosoriasis, river blindness, the one that like burrows

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<v Speaker 5>into your eye, that's a nematode. That's why the parasitic

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<v Speaker 5>ones are super gross, which is why I don't study them.

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<v Speaker 2>O mass.

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<v Speaker 5>Thanks, So there's terrestrial and marine. So the majority of

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<v Speaker 5>nematodes that we don't know anything about are free living

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00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:28.920
<v Speaker 5>and they eat anything from like plant roots and fungi

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00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:31.799
<v Speaker 5>on land to like bacteria and diatoms.

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<v Speaker 2>And in case you're not familiar with diatomes, if you

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00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:39.119
<v Speaker 2>visit the very prodiatome's site diatomes dot org, you will

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<v Speaker 2>learn that diatomes are algae and that they live in

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<v Speaker 2>houses made of glass. They are the only organism on

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00:19:44.839 --> 00:19:50.079
<v Speaker 2>the planet with cell walls composed of transparent opaline silica,

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00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:55.400
<v Speaker 2>so they look like woven crystal baskets, but tiny, tiny,

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<v Speaker 2>and they are microalgae that contribute twenty to fifty percent

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<v Speaker 2>of the oxygen on our planet we need to survive.

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<v Speaker 2>And the biggest ones are maybe the size of a

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<v Speaker 2>width of human hair, and they live in dirt and

402
00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:12.640
<v Speaker 2>of course oceans, and nematodes they snack on them, probably

403
00:20:12.799 --> 00:20:14.000
<v Speaker 2>for the salty crunch.

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00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:17.440
<v Speaker 5>And actually some nematodes eat other nematodes. So the ones

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<v Speaker 5>I did my PhD on are this group of predatory

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00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:23.240
<v Speaker 5>nematodes and they have like teeth and jaws and they're

407
00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:25.920
<v Speaker 5>really physically big and they're active predators. So I have

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00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:30.039
<v Speaker 5>microscope images of worms ripping other worms apart, you can

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00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:34.119
<v Speaker 5>find a predatory nematode with another smaller nematode like hanging

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00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:34.799
<v Speaker 5>out of its mouth.

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00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:37.279
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes oh oh on a slav.

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<v Speaker 4>I love it.

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00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:40.599
<v Speaker 2>I picture me eating like a chili dog and just

414
00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:45.039
<v Speaker 2>covered in beans, just like that. How did you get

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00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:49.119
<v Speaker 2>into the field of nematology because you were in the

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00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:52.559
<v Speaker 2>department of nematology at the university. So did you ever

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00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:55.640
<v Speaker 2>introduce yourself as an nematologist? I mean you must, right.

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00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:58.079
<v Speaker 5>I mean I study worms, so I guess I'm technically

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00:20:58.119 --> 00:21:00.720
<v Speaker 5>a nematologist, But being in a department of ptologist kind

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00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:02.359
<v Speaker 5>of like, okay, yeah, fine.

421
00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:05.240
<v Speaker 2>If you're not a nematologist, I don't know who is. Also,

422
00:21:05.319 --> 00:21:09.079
<v Speaker 2>anyone who studies something is technically anologist of it. So

423
00:21:09.319 --> 00:21:11.759
<v Speaker 2>if I were to be cracking open a book and studying,

424
00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:14.720
<v Speaker 2>I would technically be a person who studies it. You

425
00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:18.400
<v Speaker 2>are definitely a nematologist, okay, and a nematologist here, both

426
00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:21.640
<v Speaker 2>of those things. But now when it comes to how

427
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:26.400
<v Speaker 2>you got into this field, especially deep sea nematology, that

428
00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:31.559
<v Speaker 2>is a niche that is so so deey. How did

429
00:21:31.599 --> 00:21:35.160
<v Speaker 2>you find yourself there among tiny worms in the most

430
00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:37.119
<v Speaker 2>remote place on the planet.

431
00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:42.200
<v Speaker 5>Right, So there is a story here. Actually there's multiple stories.

432
00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:45.039
<v Speaker 5>I so, yeah, I get into science because I wanted

433
00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:49.400
<v Speaker 5>to be a deep sea biologist. I grew up in Massachusetts, right,

434
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:52.440
<v Speaker 5>and so we have woods Whole Oceanographic Institute there. So

435
00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:54.920
<v Speaker 5>I'm also first generation college student. So like, none of

436
00:21:54.920 --> 00:21:56.839
<v Speaker 5>my family are scientists, and I'm the weird one that

437
00:21:56.920 --> 00:21:59.400
<v Speaker 5>likes the ocean and my family actually hates the beach,

438
00:21:59.400 --> 00:21:59.680
<v Speaker 5>which I.

439
00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:02.720
<v Speaker 4>Just last year. How did you discover it?

440
00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:05.359
<v Speaker 5>Because we went to the beach and everyone was like, oh, yeah,

441
00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:06.799
<v Speaker 5>we hate the beach. We don't want to go for

442
00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:09.880
<v Speaker 5>a walk. I'm like, what, I never knew this. How

443
00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:11.960
<v Speaker 5>far away from the beach? Did you grow up like

444
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:13.599
<v Speaker 5>an hour in Massachusetts?

445
00:22:13.640 --> 00:22:13.799
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

446
00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:16.559
<v Speaker 5>I would go with my friends in high school and yeah,

447
00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:18.200
<v Speaker 5>so we would go down to the beach all the time.

448
00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:20.039
<v Speaker 5>But I also used to go on field trips of

449
00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:22.400
<v Speaker 5>the ocean because your school will always bring you to

450
00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:25.440
<v Speaker 5>the beach. And I remember we went at one point

451
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:29.599
<v Speaker 5>to Woodshole Oceanographic Institute. So they have like school tours

452
00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:32.319
<v Speaker 5>that they host and they have the submersible Alvin down there,

453
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:37.000
<v Speaker 5>and then I remember also going to they would run

454
00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:39.759
<v Speaker 5>these museum events at the Museum of Science in Boston,

455
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:42.599
<v Speaker 5>like shipped to shore and so you'd sit in this

456
00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:45.880
<v Speaker 5>auditorium they'd like beam in the satellite connection from the ship.

457
00:22:46.279 --> 00:22:47.559
<v Speaker 4>It was usually Bob Ballard.

458
00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:50.480
<v Speaker 5>I was the one that discovered the Titanic, right, wow,

459
00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:51.559
<v Speaker 5>And I was.

460
00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:53.880
<v Speaker 4>Like, oh my god, deep sea biology. I want to

461
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:54.240
<v Speaker 4>do that.

462
00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:56.359
<v Speaker 5>So I get into science, like really more for the

463
00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:59.079
<v Speaker 5>travel and the exploration. I thought I wanted to be

464
00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:01.559
<v Speaker 5>like an underwater arcologists, but then I realized that I

465
00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:03.960
<v Speaker 5>don't like dead bodies and that's kind of creepy. Dead

466
00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:07.480
<v Speaker 5>worm bodies not as creepy. Muh, So I didn't start

467
00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:10.200
<v Speaker 5>with dead worm bodies. I actually started with jellyfish because

468
00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:14.079
<v Speaker 5>they are pretty. But stanting into jellyfish research is actually

469
00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:17.559
<v Speaker 5>really hard. Really, they're like the whales of the invertebrate world,

470
00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:20.319
<v Speaker 5>and like everyone wants to study them because they're so pretty.

471
00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:24.000
<v Speaker 2>Two people who wanted to study them medusology guest doctor

472
00:23:24.039 --> 00:23:29.119
<v Speaker 2>Rebecca Helm and a toxinologist who studies jellyfish venom, doctor

473
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:32.119
<v Speaker 2>Anna Klompin. Links are floating around in the show notes

474
00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:37.440
<v Speaker 2>and For more on sunken treasures, soggy boats, and watery graves,

475
00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:40.400
<v Speaker 2>you can see the Maritime Archaeology episode. I'm going to

476
00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:42.200
<v Speaker 2>link in the show notes because it's so good. But

477
00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:44.079
<v Speaker 2>back to Holly and her worms.

478
00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:47.480
<v Speaker 5>So when I was looking for a PhD, I had

479
00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:51.759
<v Speaker 5>three criteria. I wanted to study something deep sea invertebrate.

480
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:56.759
<v Speaker 5>I wanted to get molecular biology skills because I really

481
00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:01.079
<v Speaker 5>was attracted to genomics and DNA sequence in my college courses.

482
00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:02.960
<v Speaker 5>I did really well in those courses and I was

483
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:06.039
<v Speaker 5>obsessed with DNA. And then my third criteria was that

484
00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:08.519
<v Speaker 5>I wanted to keep living in London. So I did

485
00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:10.599
<v Speaker 5>my undergrad in London, and I was like, I'm really

486
00:24:10.599 --> 00:24:12.599
<v Speaker 5>a city person. I love the city, in the fashion,

487
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:14.799
<v Speaker 5>in the theater, and I wanted to stay there. So

488
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:17.599
<v Speaker 5>the three things that ticked all those boxes was a

489
00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:20.440
<v Speaker 5>project on deep sea nematodes at the Natural History Museum

490
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:20.920
<v Speaker 5>in London.

491
00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:24.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, that's a beautiful museum. What did your

492
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:27.640
<v Speaker 2>parents think when they saw you going further and further

493
00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:30.359
<v Speaker 2>toward a PhD? What do they do? And this was

494
00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:31.519
<v Speaker 2>rare for your family?

495
00:24:32.200 --> 00:24:36.119
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, my dad is an HVAC technician, so he repairs

496
00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:40.640
<v Speaker 5>like oil burners and heating and cooling systems. And then

497
00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:43.960
<v Speaker 5>my mom was a secretary and kind of town government.

498
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:45.759
<v Speaker 5>She stayed home with me for a while. But they

499
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:48.839
<v Speaker 5>just think I'm really weird. I don't think they understand

500
00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:51.599
<v Speaker 5>why I do what I do. I mean, they're really

501
00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:54.839
<v Speaker 5>supportive of it, and they connect most of the travel aspect,

502
00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:58.279
<v Speaker 5>I think, because you like working class families. Travel is

503
00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:01.000
<v Speaker 5>basically an indicator of success, right if you can travel

504
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:03.559
<v Speaker 5>the world and you know, go to these places. And

505
00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:05.519
<v Speaker 5>so the fact that I somehow get into a job

506
00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:09.200
<v Speaker 5>where my work pays me to go to like Antarctica

507
00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:13.319
<v Speaker 5>in Japan and tropical islands, they're just astounded by that

508
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:15.200
<v Speaker 5>and also kind of worried for me. They're like, can

509
00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:18.480
<v Speaker 5>you just stop traveling? And I'm like, no, I can't,

510
00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:19.279
<v Speaker 5>It's my job.

511
00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:23.799
<v Speaker 2>Do you think there's any good nematodes in HVAC systems.

512
00:25:24.359 --> 00:25:27.240
<v Speaker 5>I'm not a cold There are nematodes and drinking water,

513
00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:31.160
<v Speaker 5>which is really disturbing, really even tapwater.

514
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:32.160
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

515
00:25:32.200 --> 00:25:35.079
<v Speaker 5>So when I was processing my samples at the Natural

516
00:25:35.119 --> 00:25:38.039
<v Speaker 5>History Museum in London, right, I work with deep sea samples,

517
00:25:38.039 --> 00:25:41.200
<v Speaker 5>so all the worms I ever saw were dead and preserved.

518
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:43.960
<v Speaker 5>But occasionally when I'm picking through my sample at the microscope,

519
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:47.319
<v Speaker 5>there would be like a thrashing, live nematode there, and

520
00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:50.480
<v Speaker 5>I would ask my taxonomists mentor.

521
00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:52.240
<v Speaker 4>Why why is this worm alive? Where did it come from?

522
00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:55.039
<v Speaker 5>And he's like, oh, yeah, you know the piping systems,

523
00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:59.200
<v Speaker 5>there's nematodes that come up occasionally from there. And actually

524
00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:02.359
<v Speaker 5>recent studies of drinking water they do like the environmental

525
00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:03.839
<v Speaker 5>DNA sequencing.

526
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:05.880
<v Speaker 4>And they look for DNA barcodes of things, and yeah.

527
00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:09.759
<v Speaker 5>You find like signatures of nematodes and drinking water worms, worms,

528
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:13.920
<v Speaker 5>worms everywhere, which makes sense, right because our drinking water

529
00:26:13.960 --> 00:26:17.440
<v Speaker 5>comes from reservoirs and you know it's put through pipes

530
00:26:17.480 --> 00:26:17.920
<v Speaker 5>and stuff.

531
00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:20.200
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, it's not completely sterile.

532
00:26:20.359 --> 00:26:21.200
<v Speaker 2>Don't worry about it.

533
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:22.680
<v Speaker 4>It's fine.

534
00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:25.119
<v Speaker 2>Now when it comes to I'm going to say nematodes

535
00:26:25.160 --> 00:26:27.200
<v Speaker 2>and nematodes this whole thing, and I'm gonna think I

536
00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:29.319
<v Speaker 2>say wrong every time, But that's fine. When it comes

537
00:26:29.319 --> 00:26:31.480
<v Speaker 2>to their life cycle, what are they out there doing?

538
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:35.039
<v Speaker 2>How are they fitting in with their environment? Are they

539
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:39.680
<v Speaker 2>cleaning things up? Are they changing the pH of systems?

540
00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:43.079
<v Speaker 2>Like what nematodes, Why why are they?

541
00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:45.680
<v Speaker 5>I will talk about marine systems because that's what I

542
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:48.240
<v Speaker 5>know best, and I'll mention a little bit about terrestrial

543
00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:51.039
<v Speaker 5>ones too. I mean, they kind of are like earthworms

544
00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:54.720
<v Speaker 5>in the marine system, but just like on a microscopic scale.

545
00:26:54.759 --> 00:26:56.720
<v Speaker 4>So think you have this patch.

546
00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:00.319
<v Speaker 5>Of mud on the beach at low tide, and you

547
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:03.279
<v Speaker 5>just have all these microscopic nemotodes kind of wriggling around,

548
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:07.000
<v Speaker 5>and so they're doing things like bioturbation right on a

549
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:11.160
<v Speaker 5>microbial scale. They're also eating lots of bacteria. So a

550
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:14.319
<v Speaker 5>lot of nematodes have specific little mouth parts that just

551
00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:18.480
<v Speaker 5>suck up bacteria. They can have species specific feeding preferences,

552
00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:21.519
<v Speaker 5>so like one nematode eats a very specific type of bacteria,

553
00:27:21.720 --> 00:27:24.240
<v Speaker 5>and you have some separation there that eat things like

554
00:27:24.279 --> 00:27:28.039
<v Speaker 5>diatom So larger microbial eukaryots.

555
00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:31.039
<v Speaker 2>Don't be scared of all those syllables. So microbial eukaryots

556
00:27:31.079 --> 00:27:36.119
<v Speaker 2>are just tiny organisms like fungi or single celled little

557
00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:41.240
<v Speaker 2>blobby things, or algae or other little creatures with eukaryotic cells,

558
00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:44.720
<v Speaker 2>that is, cells with a nucleus and usually organelles and

559
00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:48.480
<v Speaker 2>some DNA. You are a eukaryot Many of the animals

560
00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:52.119
<v Speaker 2>living inside of your body also are because we're never

561
00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:55.000
<v Speaker 2>alone and everyone living in you mostly loves you.

562
00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:57.920
<v Speaker 5>They are predatory, so they're kind of like the base

563
00:27:58.039 --> 00:28:00.359
<v Speaker 5>of the food chain. So you have the you know,

564
00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:02.680
<v Speaker 5>the bacteria, and then you have the nematodes and then

565
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:06.039
<v Speaker 5>the bigger things like polykeat worm. Larger worms would eat

566
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:09.480
<v Speaker 5>nematods or amphipods or crustaceans, and they are the base

567
00:28:09.480 --> 00:28:12.039
<v Speaker 5>of the food chain. Probably also important for carbon cycling

568
00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:14.319
<v Speaker 5>because there's a lot of them and they do Some

569
00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:16.640
<v Speaker 5>of them do deposit feed like sea cucumbers, so you

570
00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:20.160
<v Speaker 5>have like miniature kind of ce cucumber like species that

571
00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:23.720
<v Speaker 5>are just ingesting the sediment, pooping it out and turning

572
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:24.279
<v Speaker 5>stuff over.

573
00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:27.680
<v Speaker 2>So yes. In this world, stuff eats stuff that eat stuff,

574
00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:31.319
<v Speaker 2>and bacteria at the bottom of that chain they really

575
00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:34.160
<v Speaker 2>get the shaft. So bacteria they're just trying to exist

576
00:28:34.359 --> 00:28:37.720
<v Speaker 2>and then nematodes come and gobble them up like kettle corn.

577
00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:41.359
<v Speaker 2>Nematodes are acting like the compost bins of the deep

578
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:45.640
<v Speaker 2>sea mud. So thank you for the recycling service bentopelagic roundworms.

579
00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:49.039
<v Speaker 2>But as a thank you, the nematods gets slipped up

580
00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:53.519
<v Speaker 2>by polykeat worms, which are briskly segmented things that look

581
00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:56.759
<v Speaker 2>like aquatic centipedes. They just come and eat up the

582
00:28:56.799 --> 00:29:01.559
<v Speaker 2>nematodes like paskette. How small and how big you nematodes get.

583
00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:05.799
<v Speaker 5>The smallest nematodes are the deep sea ones because when

584
00:29:05.799 --> 00:29:08.119
<v Speaker 5>you get into the deep sea, the food quality and

585
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:10.640
<v Speaker 5>the amount of food is really poor and there's just

586
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:13.480
<v Speaker 5>not much there. So that leads to reduction in body

587
00:29:13.480 --> 00:29:17.599
<v Speaker 5>sizes and those can be like a tenth of a millimeter. Oof,

588
00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:22.319
<v Speaker 5>I'm a weetle'll be really tiny. Yeah, And the largest ones, so,

589
00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:25.400
<v Speaker 5>the largest nematode that we've ever found is actually.

590
00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:27.200
<v Speaker 4>A parasite of a sperm whale.

591
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:33.279
<v Speaker 5>Placenta specific so specific, yes, and that one is about

592
00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:40.119
<v Speaker 5>thirty meters long and no yeah yeah wait ninety feet yeah.

593
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:42.079
<v Speaker 5>So at the Natural History Museum we actually have it

594
00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:44.920
<v Speaker 5>in a jar. So it's like this giant glass jar

595
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:48.640
<v Speaker 5>which is like coiled worm all up. And yeah from

596
00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:52.799
<v Speaker 5>a sperm whale, but placenta of a sperm whale specific.

597
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:58.119
<v Speaker 2>How do they reproduce if they have such small niches?

598
00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:01.240
<v Speaker 5>So I mean they reproduce sexually just like a lot

599
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:04.559
<v Speaker 5>of organisms, you actually have males and females of species.

600
00:30:04.839 --> 00:30:08.480
<v Speaker 5>So fun fact, see Elegans is actually like the worst nematode.

601
00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:11.839
<v Speaker 2>What No, Okay, so see elegance. I know just enough

602
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:14.079
<v Speaker 2>to know that this is a study species for a

603
00:30:14.119 --> 00:30:17.559
<v Speaker 2>lot of scientists across a lot of different platforms. Why

604
00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:20.119
<v Speaker 2>do they pick see elegans? And is it an elegant worm?

605
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:24.839
<v Speaker 5>It is a boring worm, and it's it's a hermaphrodite.

606
00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:28.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh love that, But scientists can get a little fluw

607
00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:29.799
<v Speaker 2>mixed in the lab.

608
00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:33.039
<v Speaker 5>Most nematodes are not hermaphrodites. Most nematodes have males and

609
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:36.119
<v Speaker 5>females and they are sexually reproducing, so we need the

610
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:39.039
<v Speaker 5>males and females. The Elegans is a hermaphrodite, so it

611
00:30:39.079 --> 00:30:42.319
<v Speaker 5>can fertilize itself. But also it has no body parts,

612
00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:45.000
<v Speaker 5>like it's literally just a tube that's pointing at both ends,

613
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:48.480
<v Speaker 5>and it has no discerning features and like, obviously according

614
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:51.519
<v Speaker 5>to my cards, there's a lot of stuff on the worms,

615
00:30:51.640 --> 00:30:53.640
<v Speaker 5>so most of them don't look like that. And the

616
00:30:53.640 --> 00:30:56.160
<v Speaker 5>reason we pick the elegans is because we can freeze

617
00:30:56.200 --> 00:30:58.559
<v Speaker 5>it and unfreeze it and it will survive. So yeah,

618
00:30:58.599 --> 00:31:01.119
<v Speaker 5>you have the frozen worms and they're kind of hibernating,

619
00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:04.440
<v Speaker 5>and then you'll just unfreeze them and you'll do your experiments.

620
00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:07.640
<v Speaker 5>They found it from rotting fruit like it lives on apples,

621
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:10.519
<v Speaker 5>rotting apples and orchards, and someone found it and brought

622
00:31:10.519 --> 00:31:13.000
<v Speaker 5>into the lab one day and now it's that's our

623
00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:13.839
<v Speaker 5>model organism.

624
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:16.680
<v Speaker 2>What is this worm? Who is this worm? Okay? First off,

625
00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:20.640
<v Speaker 2>it is elegant and its name means recent, rod like

626
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:24.720
<v Speaker 2>and elegant, which is an app description for a teenage

627
00:31:24.759 --> 00:31:28.000
<v Speaker 2>supermodel in the nineties, and just like one. It was

628
00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:32.279
<v Speaker 2>discovered minding its own business in an Algerian orchard by

629
00:31:32.359 --> 00:31:37.119
<v Speaker 2>worm scout and amateur biologist Emil Malpass around the year

630
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:41.480
<v Speaker 2>nineteen hundred and Mapas just loved science and noodled around

631
00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:45.279
<v Speaker 2>on worm projects and other stuff as a hobby, eventually

632
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:49.640
<v Speaker 2>getting published multiple times and being honored with a doctorate

633
00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:53.519
<v Speaker 2>and knighted for his contributions to science. Broddim Now, in

634
00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:55.839
<v Speaker 2>nineteen sixty five, there was this guy named Sidney Brenner

635
00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:59.680
<v Speaker 2>and he ushered this tiny one millimeter see elegance onto

636
00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:03.480
<v Speaker 2>the side seen and from there sea Elegan's fame exploded

637
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:06.799
<v Speaker 2>its usage rows and yes, I will link to a

638
00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:10.480
<v Speaker 2>publication called Worm Book, which has an extensive table of

639
00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:13.640
<v Speaker 2>studies in which c. Elegance was instrumental. But a few

640
00:32:13.720 --> 00:32:17.480
<v Speaker 2>highlights are the discovery of cell death in nineteen eighty three,

641
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:21.400
<v Speaker 2>the first complete wiring diagram of a nervous system in

642
00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:27.359
<v Speaker 2>ninety eight, insulin pathway genes why naps help after physical stress?

643
00:32:27.559 --> 00:32:31.200
<v Speaker 2>See Elegance was the first multicellular organism to have its

644
00:32:31.240 --> 00:32:35.960
<v Speaker 2>whole genome sequenced. Also, Sea Elgan's nematodes survived the space

645
00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:39.599
<v Speaker 2>Shial Columbia disaster in February of two thousand and three.

646
00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:42.319
<v Speaker 2>How did they do that? Nobody knows. Also, in researching this,

647
00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:45.039
<v Speaker 2>I learned that there was a conference called the International

648
00:32:45.079 --> 00:32:48.240
<v Speaker 2>Worm Meeting and apparently, folks, we just missed it a

649
00:32:48.240 --> 00:32:51.200
<v Speaker 2>few months ago in Glasgow, Scotland. But luckily you can

650
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:54.519
<v Speaker 2>catch up on what happened via the hashtag worm twenty three.

651
00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:58.319
<v Speaker 2>Also fortunate, it's annual and they gather in different places

652
00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:01.119
<v Speaker 2>around the world to talk cl elegans, which has been

653
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:04.240
<v Speaker 2>called Nature's gift to science. So a lot of people

654
00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:07.440
<v Speaker 2>love the worm. Others well, kind of a big, big,

655
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:10.839
<v Speaker 2>grudging sigh. Has anyone ever said, hey, what if we

656
00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:13.720
<v Speaker 2>switch up the worm people, or no, it's over, it's

657
00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:16.319
<v Speaker 2>sea elegans. That's it. We got a sea elegans tattoo

658
00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:17.599
<v Speaker 2>on our back and there's no going back.

659
00:33:18.119 --> 00:33:20.839
<v Speaker 5>I mean, they're sort of like, what if we get

660
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:23.920
<v Speaker 5>the worm that's most closely related to sea elegans and

661
00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:26.559
<v Speaker 5>we work with that too, And from my perspective, that's

662
00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:29.119
<v Speaker 5>like literally the same thing because it's on this tiny

663
00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:31.519
<v Speaker 5>part of the nematode tree of life. It's very distant

664
00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:34.319
<v Speaker 5>from the marine species because those are like the most

665
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:37.960
<v Speaker 5>ancient lineages of nematodes, and sea elegans is, yeah, just

666
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:40.079
<v Speaker 5>a completely different part of the tree. So it's yeah,

667
00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:43.440
<v Speaker 5>I'm not bitter, not like not throwing shade at see

668
00:33:43.480 --> 00:33:43.920
<v Speaker 5>ale agans.

669
00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:44.559
<v Speaker 4>It's important.

670
00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:47.200
<v Speaker 5>You can order it on the internet with whatever gene

671
00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:49.599
<v Speaker 5>knocked out that you want. So it plays an important role,

672
00:33:49.839 --> 00:33:53.200
<v Speaker 5>but it's not representative of the crazy diversity of nematodes

673
00:33:53.240 --> 00:33:54.200
<v Speaker 5>that we have in the environment.

674
00:33:54.440 --> 00:33:56.039
<v Speaker 2>Are you not mad but just disappointed?

675
00:33:56.440 --> 00:33:59.240
<v Speaker 5>My one of my good friends says that I'm motivated

676
00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:01.480
<v Speaker 5>by just disinspite.

677
00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:02.839
<v Speaker 4>Well that those are good things.

678
00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:06.720
<v Speaker 2>Those are good fuels. What about the Age of Niama

679
00:34:06.759 --> 00:34:10.280
<v Speaker 2>shows how can you even find fossilized ones? Are they

680
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:11.880
<v Speaker 2>so gooy that they just kind of melt?

681
00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:14.920
<v Speaker 5>For the most part, we do not have fossils. The

682
00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:18.880
<v Speaker 5>oldest fossil that I recall is from the Devonian Age,

683
00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:22.480
<v Speaker 5>and I don't remember how ancient that is, but I

684
00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:23.960
<v Speaker 5>don't think it's actually pretty ancient.

685
00:34:24.119 --> 00:34:27.119
<v Speaker 2>The Devonian Age was four hundred million years ago, just

686
00:34:27.159 --> 00:34:28.320
<v Speaker 2>so none of us have to google.

687
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:30.639
<v Speaker 5>So we have like this one fossil of a plant

688
00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:33.719
<v Speaker 5>parasitic nematode and some tree sap, but that's it. There's

689
00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:36.960
<v Speaker 5>no fossil record. So yeah, we're working at a disadvantage

690
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:39.679
<v Speaker 5>compared to most other phyla. And that's why DNA and

691
00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:43.119
<v Speaker 5>genomics is really important, because a genome is basically like

692
00:34:43.159 --> 00:34:46.199
<v Speaker 5>a time machine or the equivalent of a fossil record,

693
00:34:46.239 --> 00:34:47.039
<v Speaker 5>and that's what we use.

694
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:50.039
<v Speaker 2>And what about the ones in Antarctica that you are studying,

695
00:34:50.119 --> 00:34:52.880
<v Speaker 2>do they freeze or does it just not freeze? In

696
00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:54.079
<v Speaker 2>the deep sea mud.

697
00:34:54.679 --> 00:34:57.960
<v Speaker 5>It does not freeze. Okay, so the ocean water in

698
00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:01.840
<v Speaker 5>Antarctica is super cold, but because of the salinity, it's

699
00:35:01.880 --> 00:35:05.880
<v Speaker 5>so salty. It does not typically freeze the surface.

700
00:35:05.519 --> 00:35:06.800
<v Speaker 4>Well, so you'll get sea ice.

701
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:09.559
<v Speaker 5>But the nematodes that I work with live in the sediments,

702
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:14.320
<v Speaker 5>so the sediments will typically never freeze, and if they do,

703
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:16.599
<v Speaker 5>it's like near a glacier, and then you've got other

704
00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:20.280
<v Speaker 5>problems like the scraping of the glacier killing all the

705
00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:21.360
<v Speaker 5>worms on the sea floor.

706
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:25.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I forgot to ask what moisturizer you did bring, by.

707
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:29.440
<v Speaker 5>The way, Ooh, that is a good question. I brought

708
00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:32.440
<v Speaker 5>a giant tub. I want to say, it's like like

709
00:35:32.559 --> 00:35:34.760
<v Speaker 5>first aid beauty something. I get it target, I get

710
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:38.280
<v Speaker 5>like a giant tub of like ultra healing moisturizer.

711
00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:42.239
<v Speaker 2>Smart Holly wrote me later to say, not only did

712
00:35:42.280 --> 00:35:45.800
<v Speaker 2>this cream keep my skin fabulously moist in the coldest

713
00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:49.519
<v Speaker 2>and driest place on Earth, but this product lasts forever.

714
00:35:49.719 --> 00:35:52.159
<v Speaker 2>She says, I bought the six ounce tub back in

715
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:55.639
<v Speaker 2>February before Antarctica, and I am still using the same

716
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:57.599
<v Speaker 2>one with a quarter of the tub left. So one

717
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:00.760
<v Speaker 2>recommend for your listeners, especially if you have combo to

718
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:03.559
<v Speaker 2>oily skin like me, because the space cream isn't greasy

719
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:05.440
<v Speaker 2>at all. So there is her tip, and she is

720
00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:08.639
<v Speaker 2>a world class scientist. And because of that, she also

721
00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:11.320
<v Speaker 2>included a helpful citation, and by that I mean a

722
00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:14.639
<v Speaker 2>link and it's called Ultra Repair Cream by first Aid Beauty.

723
00:36:14.679 --> 00:36:17.239
<v Speaker 2>You're welcome. And no, they're not paying us even one

724
00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:19.840
<v Speaker 2>worm for the mention. But when you use it you

725
00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:22.320
<v Speaker 2>can think of worms. It does not contain any worms.

726
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:22.519
<v Speaker 1>Though.

727
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:26.599
<v Speaker 2>Let's change the subject now, what about glaciers. You mentioned glaciers.

728
00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:29.119
<v Speaker 2>When we think of glaciers, I think of melting, and

729
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:29.639
<v Speaker 2>I think.

730
00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:32.760
<v Speaker 6>Of oh no, and may yeaher.

731
00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:37.880
<v Speaker 2>Do you find out anything about climate from studying deep

732
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:41.400
<v Speaker 2>sea worms? Do you see anything change over time? Like

733
00:36:41.480 --> 00:36:43.679
<v Speaker 2>are there more or less of them?

734
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:46.039
<v Speaker 4>That is one question that I have.

735
00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:50.159
<v Speaker 5>I would say there's not enough people studying worms, and

736
00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:52.360
<v Speaker 5>there's not enough data on the worms to be able

737
00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:55.079
<v Speaker 5>to tell that. And that's kind of what we're trying

738
00:36:55.119 --> 00:36:57.440
<v Speaker 5>to do. So we're trying to get a baseline of

739
00:36:57.480 --> 00:37:00.480
<v Speaker 5>the biodiversity. Most places in the ocean, we just don't

740
00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:03.000
<v Speaker 5>even know what's there. So how can we track change

741
00:37:03.079 --> 00:37:06.119
<v Speaker 5>if we don't have that data set to start from.

742
00:37:06.199 --> 00:37:07.840
<v Speaker 5>So a lot of my work is really just a

743
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:10.840
<v Speaker 5>race against time to get a baseline of knowledge.

744
00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:14.440
<v Speaker 2>God, if you watch things going hotter and hotter and hotter.

745
00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:16.639
<v Speaker 2>You must be like I needed to get this information

746
00:37:16.760 --> 00:37:19.960
<v Speaker 2>like in the fifties or something, right, Yeah, Well, we.

747
00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:23.679
<v Speaker 5>Know nematodes are really sensitive to temperature shifts. So the

748
00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:25.880
<v Speaker 5>thing that kills all the deep sea worms when you

749
00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:28.280
<v Speaker 5>bring them up on deck the deep sea is like

750
00:37:28.400 --> 00:37:29.639
<v Speaker 5>two degrees celsius.

751
00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:33.599
<v Speaker 6>That's thirty six point five degrees fahrenheit tuned after Americans.

752
00:37:33.199 --> 00:37:34.880
<v Speaker 4>So it's like living in a refrigerator.

753
00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:37.599
<v Speaker 5>And when you bring that sample onto the deck of

754
00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:39.199
<v Speaker 5>a boat, even if you just go into the lab

755
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:41.599
<v Speaker 5>and it's like sixty degrees, Like sixty degrees for a

756
00:37:41.639 --> 00:37:45.000
<v Speaker 5>deep sea worm is like the Arizona desertation.

757
00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:47.719
<v Speaker 2>Night summer, like the mouth of Hell for that. Yeah.

758
00:37:47.800 --> 00:37:50.199
<v Speaker 5>So like most people ask me if the pressure changes

759
00:37:50.360 --> 00:37:52.719
<v Speaker 5>kill the worms, but they're fine with the pressure, Like

760
00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:56.519
<v Speaker 5>it's the temperature shift. So we could infer in a

761
00:37:56.679 --> 00:38:01.440
<v Speaker 5>changing ocean where the climate is causing temperature increases, a

762
00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:04.440
<v Speaker 5>lot of the species that are really sensitive to temperature

763
00:38:04.639 --> 00:38:06.920
<v Speaker 5>are not going to do so well. And I think

764
00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:08.880
<v Speaker 5>that's a similar thing that we see with you know,

765
00:38:08.960 --> 00:38:12.199
<v Speaker 5>corals and other invertebrates, is that you have very species

766
00:38:12.199 --> 00:38:15.800
<v Speaker 5>specific responses to temperature change. So some species just will

767
00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:18.440
<v Speaker 5>completely die and never be able to adapt, and other

768
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:22.079
<v Speaker 5>species are more resilient to fluctuations and temperature. So, you know,

769
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:25.719
<v Speaker 5>the worms will survive the apocalypse. I'm never worried that

770
00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:28.639
<v Speaker 5>they will go away because there will always be nematodes there, Like,

771
00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:30.440
<v Speaker 5>come on, if they can live in volcanoes, they're going

772
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:32.320
<v Speaker 5>to be able to live in yeah, an ocean. But

773
00:38:32.360 --> 00:38:35.320
<v Speaker 5>it's just the species composition is going to be completely

774
00:38:35.320 --> 00:38:37.280
<v Speaker 5>different because the ones that are sensitive are going to

775
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:39.599
<v Speaker 5>go away. And my worry is that we don't really

776
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:42.519
<v Speaker 5>know what they do in the ecosystem. So maybe the

777
00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:46.039
<v Speaker 5>sensitive worm eats a bacteria that's like a keystone species,

778
00:38:46.519 --> 00:38:49.280
<v Speaker 5>and then if that worm goes extinct, then the you know,

779
00:38:49.400 --> 00:38:52.159
<v Speaker 5>bacterial populations will completely change. So it's kind of like

780
00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:55.239
<v Speaker 5>the butterfly effect. We're messing with things maybe that we

781
00:38:55.280 --> 00:38:56.159
<v Speaker 5>don't want to mess with.

782
00:38:56.480 --> 00:38:57.480
<v Speaker 2>What's their lifespan?

783
00:38:57.599 --> 00:38:59.519
<v Speaker 4>Usually it varies.

784
00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:04.119
<v Speaker 5>Usually the marine species I work with are they can

785
00:39:04.199 --> 00:39:06.840
<v Speaker 5>live for a couple months to a couple of years.

786
00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:11.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, Yeah. The idea of a millimeter long worm

787
00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:14.800
<v Speaker 2>in a deep sea just being like I'm five, that's nuts.

788
00:39:14.840 --> 00:39:18.159
<v Speaker 5>You know, well, but deep sea species, a lot of

789
00:39:18.199 --> 00:39:20.559
<v Speaker 5>them live for a really long time, and we don't

790
00:39:20.599 --> 00:39:23.239
<v Speaker 5>know why that. You know, they slow down their metabolic

791
00:39:23.320 --> 00:39:25.119
<v Speaker 5>rates because like there's just not a lot of food.

792
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:28.159
<v Speaker 5>So think of it kind of like hibernation. They're just

793
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:31.960
<v Speaker 5>really slow and that like extends their lifespan. Again, we

794
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:33.920
<v Speaker 5>don't know if this happens with worms because there's not

795
00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:36.559
<v Speaker 5>a lot of data and we can't really easily do experiments.

796
00:39:36.599 --> 00:39:38.639
<v Speaker 5>But the trend is that the deep sea is just

797
00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:40.000
<v Speaker 5>a place where time.

798
00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:43.000
<v Speaker 4>Is very slow. And that's how I think about it.

799
00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:46.559
<v Speaker 2>What about how you're getting your samples? How deep are

800
00:39:46.559 --> 00:39:48.519
<v Speaker 2>you going and you're on this ship. Are you sending

801
00:39:48.519 --> 00:39:51.400
<v Speaker 2>an ROV down? Are you going down in a submersible?

802
00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:54.280
<v Speaker 2>Are you sending a court like a big PVC pipe

803
00:39:54.280 --> 00:39:57.440
<v Speaker 2>and seeing what you can dredch up the large straw

804
00:39:58.440 --> 00:39:59.039
<v Speaker 2>spipe in it?

805
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:01.199
<v Speaker 4>Ah accurate.

806
00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:04.800
<v Speaker 5>Actually, PBC pipes are pretty much the cutting edge technology

807
00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:09.079
<v Speaker 5>in DPC science. I took a I thought that that

808
00:40:09.320 --> 00:40:13.199
<v Speaker 5>was hyperbolic, but that's amazing. Okay, yeah, I mean slightly

809
00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:16.599
<v Speaker 5>fancy PBC pipe. So we use what's called a multicore megacore.

810
00:40:16.719 --> 00:40:19.800
<v Speaker 5>It's like a circle of pipes and they're just really

811
00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:22.320
<v Speaker 5>long tubes and then they have some sort of mechanism

812
00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:24.360
<v Speaker 5>at the bottom which will kind of feel it and

813
00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:26.079
<v Speaker 5>bring up the mud. So yeah, you send down we

814
00:40:26.119 --> 00:40:27.880
<v Speaker 5>call it a rosette because it's a ring.

815
00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:28.960
<v Speaker 4>Send that down.

816
00:40:29.079 --> 00:40:31.559
<v Speaker 5>It pushes into the sediment. The tubes get sealed off,

817
00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:34.000
<v Speaker 5>and then you bring it up and you can preserve

818
00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:36.519
<v Speaker 5>the sediment water interface. So it's actually like a really

819
00:40:36.519 --> 00:40:40.000
<v Speaker 5>sensitive way of sampling the seafloor. And then we slice

820
00:40:40.039 --> 00:40:43.000
<v Speaker 5>little pancakes of mud off the top of the cores

821
00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:44.480
<v Speaker 5>and we put them in the freezer to bring back

822
00:40:44.519 --> 00:40:46.239
<v Speaker 5>to the lab to work.

823
00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:46.599
<v Speaker 4>On the worms.

824
00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:50.400
<v Speaker 2>How much product do you get to take home, like

825
00:40:50.519 --> 00:40:53.320
<v Speaker 2>your luggage back. Is it a pelican case full of

826
00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:55.599
<v Speaker 2>mud or is it only like we really only can

827
00:40:55.599 --> 00:40:57.360
<v Speaker 2>take a couple cores because it's going to take us

828
00:40:57.400 --> 00:41:00.280
<v Speaker 2>ten years to figure out what's in one little slice.

829
00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:05.920
<v Speaker 5>So I have a problem with hoarding mud. This has

830
00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:09.000
<v Speaker 5>been a problem I have faced for a decade now.

831
00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:10.400
<v Speaker 2>It's very important.

832
00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:14.559
<v Speaker 5>Technically we only need like most of the worm biomass

833
00:41:14.599 --> 00:41:17.239
<v Speaker 5>lives in I would say the top five centimeters of mud.

834
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:21.440
<v Speaker 5>But you do have vertical distribution So you have some

835
00:41:21.679 --> 00:41:25.559
<v Speaker 5>nematodes that burrow really deep, and the species composition will

836
00:41:25.639 --> 00:41:26.960
<v Speaker 5>change as you go in the core.

837
00:41:27.159 --> 00:41:28.519
<v Speaker 4>So we tend to.

838
00:41:28.519 --> 00:41:30.840
<v Speaker 5>Collect everything because we don't know what we're gonna find,

839
00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:33.360
<v Speaker 5>and we don't process it on the boat. We put

840
00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:35.199
<v Speaker 5>it in the freezer and then we send it back

841
00:41:35.199 --> 00:41:38.679
<v Speaker 5>to the lab on dry ice. And I just I

842
00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:40.880
<v Speaker 5>am always just like all of the mud. Let's bring

843
00:41:40.920 --> 00:41:42.840
<v Speaker 5>it all back. And I have a problem saying no,

844
00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:46.239
<v Speaker 5>if someone hands me like a bag of mud, what

845
00:41:46.360 --> 00:41:50.239
<v Speaker 5>about is there respiration is it? Are they anaerobic? Are

846
00:41:50.280 --> 00:41:53.679
<v Speaker 5>they aerobic? Do they breathe through their skin or through

847
00:41:53.719 --> 00:41:54.599
<v Speaker 5>their pit of sarlac?

848
00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:57.760
<v Speaker 2>So she pulled out another card and who boy, wow,

849
00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:01.199
<v Speaker 2>this one, this one really got me. So imagine a

850
00:42:01.239 --> 00:42:05.440
<v Speaker 2>thick long beard beard hairs sprouting from a garden hose

851
00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:09.239
<v Speaker 2>made of skin that also has awkward bald patches if

852
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:12.360
<v Speaker 2>you can picture that, or maybe like a weasel with

853
00:42:12.679 --> 00:42:16.360
<v Speaker 2>bore bristles that escaped in the middle of a grooming.

854
00:42:16.840 --> 00:42:21.320
<v Speaker 5>So this is what we call the Chewbacca nematode. But

855
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:23.760
<v Speaker 5>I would say so in this funny story behind this photo.

856
00:42:23.840 --> 00:42:26.760
<v Speaker 5>So this nematode is basically like Chewbacca's leg and all

857
00:42:26.800 --> 00:42:29.880
<v Speaker 5>those little hairs that you see are bacteria, so they're

858
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:33.000
<v Speaker 5>symbiotic bacteria that live attached to the worm. But in

859
00:42:33.039 --> 00:42:37.320
<v Speaker 5>this photo we actually we like shaved it because the

860
00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:41.039
<v Speaker 5>electron microscope made most of the bacteria like fall off

861
00:42:41.119 --> 00:42:43.480
<v Speaker 5>and there's only just one little part remaining, so it

862
00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:45.760
<v Speaker 5>kind of looks like a poodle tail, which I always

863
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:48.320
<v Speaker 5>laugh at and my graduate student would like kill me

864
00:42:48.360 --> 00:42:48.840
<v Speaker 5>if she knew.

865
00:42:48.840 --> 00:42:50.119
<v Speaker 4>I put this on a business card.

866
00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:53.599
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, you've got it looks like some of it

867
00:42:53.679 --> 00:42:55.559
<v Speaker 2>is shaved, and then you've got like if you were

868
00:42:55.599 --> 00:42:58.639
<v Speaker 2>to forget a patch of a very hairy leg. Yeah,

869
00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:02.320
<v Speaker 2>as you shaved it. That's amazing. Normally covered, normally covered.

870
00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:05.760
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, So several nematode groups will have bacteria attached to them.

871
00:43:06.159 --> 00:43:10.079
<v Speaker 5>This one is filamentous bacteria, so they're really stringy bacteria

872
00:43:10.119 --> 00:43:14.559
<v Speaker 5>that completely cover the worm. And these are sulfur utilizing bacteria,

873
00:43:14.679 --> 00:43:17.400
<v Speaker 5>so we don't quite know what they do, but the

874
00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:19.960
<v Speaker 5>worms that are covered in bacteria tend to live deep

875
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:23.079
<v Speaker 5>in the sediments. In sediments, the reason why it smells

876
00:43:23.159 --> 00:43:24.000
<v Speaker 5>is because there's a lot of.

877
00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:26.320
<v Speaker 2>Sulfur mud farts. We're talking of mud farts.

878
00:43:26.519 --> 00:43:30.719
<v Speaker 5>Sulfur is actually really toxic to invertebrates, So the species

879
00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:33.920
<v Speaker 5>that can live down in that anoxic mud are they

880
00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:37.159
<v Speaker 5>need special adaptations to be able to repel the toxicity.

881
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:40.239
<v Speaker 5>And the theory is that these bacteria on this Chewbacca

882
00:43:40.280 --> 00:43:44.199
<v Speaker 5>nematode are using the sulfur or physically protecting the worm

883
00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:46.400
<v Speaker 5>body from the effects of the sulfur because the bacteria

884
00:43:46.440 --> 00:43:48.400
<v Speaker 5>that's what they use for their metabolism.

885
00:43:48.599 --> 00:43:51.760
<v Speaker 2>So the bacteria love the stinky mud, and the nematodes

886
00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:55.599
<v Speaker 2>use the bacteria like a mink coat in January. How

887
00:43:55.639 --> 00:43:56.679
<v Speaker 2>did you shave this worm?

888
00:43:58.280 --> 00:44:01.480
<v Speaker 5>So when you prep stuff for the election microscope, you

889
00:44:01.559 --> 00:44:05.039
<v Speaker 5>need to like spray it with gold particles, and that

890
00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:07.280
<v Speaker 5>I guess just like that the bacteria fell off when

891
00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:07.840
<v Speaker 5>you did that.

892
00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:10.400
<v Speaker 2>Where you get in the gold particles, Can you reharvest

893
00:44:10.400 --> 00:44:12.360
<v Speaker 2>the gold particles or is it just like but bye gold,

894
00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:13.159
<v Speaker 2>you served your purpose.

895
00:44:13.239 --> 00:44:15.480
<v Speaker 4>I think it's goodbye gold. Yeah, I think it's gold.

896
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:17.239
<v Speaker 5>I'm not the one that does a microscopy. This is

897
00:44:17.239 --> 00:44:19.639
<v Speaker 5>my graduate student, Marianna that does all this. So she's

898
00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:21.320
<v Speaker 5>amazing at what she does. And I know she was

899
00:44:21.320 --> 00:44:22.880
<v Speaker 5>not happy with this because she shaved the worm.

900
00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:24.840
<v Speaker 2>Wait, so you're telling me that you work with a

901
00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:27.519
<v Speaker 2>grad student who works in deep sea biology whose name

902
00:44:27.559 --> 00:44:28.159
<v Speaker 2>is Marianna.

903
00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:29.000
<v Speaker 4>Yes.

904
00:44:29.199 --> 00:44:32.599
<v Speaker 2>Is that not the name of a trench Mirianna? So

905
00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:35.280
<v Speaker 2>she's Brazilian Okay, just wondering. I was like, did she

906
00:44:35.320 --> 00:44:37.960
<v Speaker 2>get into it for the trench? Like I heard about

907
00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:40.280
<v Speaker 2>a trench and was like, I'm a shoe in for this.

908
00:44:40.519 --> 00:44:42.880
<v Speaker 2>I have never asked her that A might ask her

909
00:44:42.920 --> 00:44:45.000
<v Speaker 2>when I go. I mean, if there were a trench

910
00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:46.800
<v Speaker 2>called the alley Ward Trench, I think I'd be like,

911
00:44:47.079 --> 00:44:49.800
<v Speaker 2>I'll google that, you know, Like that's exciting. I emailed

912
00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:53.239
<v Speaker 2>Holly later and she said that Marianna grew up in

913
00:44:53.320 --> 00:44:56.760
<v Speaker 2>southern Brazil, right next to a glorious tropical beach, so

914
00:44:56.840 --> 00:44:59.360
<v Speaker 2>that is probably why she became a marine biologist, and

915
00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:02.360
<v Speaker 2>that she is more of a warm weather person and

916
00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:05.519
<v Speaker 2>the deep sea is very cold. Still, I think it's cool,

917
00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:07.440
<v Speaker 2>and that she should tell people it's named after her.

918
00:45:07.719 --> 00:45:10.960
<v Speaker 2>They let them Wikipedia in later. Also, if you must know,

919
00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:13.920
<v Speaker 2>when someone has a name that seems to correlate to

920
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:17.000
<v Speaker 2>their job, that's called an aptronym. Let's hear a few

921
00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:21.000
<v Speaker 2>good ones, such as weatherman, Dallas rains an in house

922
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:27.320
<v Speaker 2>technology firm lawyer named Sue You, British hydrologist doctor Andrew Drinkwater.

923
00:45:27.800 --> 00:45:30.239
<v Speaker 2>Doctor Ted Stankovich is someone I've wanted to have on

924
00:45:30.280 --> 00:45:33.480
<v Speaker 2>the show for a while. He studies skunk glands. And

925
00:45:33.639 --> 00:45:37.119
<v Speaker 2>there's a Russian hurdler by the name of Marina Stepanova.

926
00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:42.679
<v Speaker 2>She's a hurdler Stepanova. Coincidence or nominative determinism. That means

927
00:45:42.679 --> 00:45:47.280
<v Speaker 2>that people choose careers subconsciously because they're kind of already

928
00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:49.639
<v Speaker 2>a big name in them. We may never know. Also,

929
00:45:49.719 --> 00:45:52.800
<v Speaker 2>this interview was in the wake of the Ocean Gate

930
00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:57.239
<v Speaker 2>Titan submersible implosion, so all eyes were really at the

931
00:45:57.239 --> 00:45:58.039
<v Speaker 2>bottom of the sea.

932
00:45:58.519 --> 00:46:00.760
<v Speaker 4>Oh, can I quickly talk about it? Deep sea mining?

933
00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:01.320
<v Speaker 5>Yes?

934
00:46:01.480 --> 00:46:04.480
<v Speaker 4>Yes, so deep sea mining. If you are not.

935
00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:08.599
<v Speaker 5>Aware of this issue, there are these polymetallic nodule failds

936
00:46:08.679 --> 00:46:12.039
<v Speaker 5>in the Equatorial Pacific and it's basically like the rainforest

937
00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:15.320
<v Speaker 5>of the deep sea. And if you are at all inspired,

938
00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:18.079
<v Speaker 5>you know, by the biodiversity the deep sea, or you're

939
00:46:18.079 --> 00:46:20.440
<v Speaker 5>concerned about climate change, like deep sea mining is the

940
00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:22.840
<v Speaker 5>worst thing that we can possibly do right now because

941
00:46:23.039 --> 00:46:24.800
<v Speaker 5>we don't even know if we're going to need those minerals.

942
00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:27.719
<v Speaker 5>We don't even know what's in those those nodules, and

943
00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:31.920
<v Speaker 5>battery technology is changing and people want to go and

944
00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:36.679
<v Speaker 5>basically bulldoze the microbial rainforest in this beautiful region on Earth.

945
00:46:36.679 --> 00:46:39.519
<v Speaker 5>And you even have like worms living in the metal nodules,

946
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:42.199
<v Speaker 5>and it's just like this incredible source of biodiversity and

947
00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:45.679
<v Speaker 5>it really is not getting enough press coverage and it's

948
00:46:45.800 --> 00:46:48.840
<v Speaker 5>upsetting because the payoff is not going to be worth it.

949
00:46:49.000 --> 00:46:52.639
<v Speaker 5>These ecosystems take tens and thousands of years to recover.

950
00:46:53.159 --> 00:46:56.480
<v Speaker 2>And who is in charge of the green light on that?

951
00:46:56.639 --> 00:46:57.559
<v Speaker 2>Who's saying yes or no?

952
00:46:58.039 --> 00:47:01.719
<v Speaker 5>The International Sea Authority, which is part of the UN.

953
00:47:01.760 --> 00:47:04.559
<v Speaker 5>I believe there has been this clock that is triggered

954
00:47:04.599 --> 00:47:08.000
<v Speaker 5>because certain nations want to pursue deep sea mining and

955
00:47:08.039 --> 00:47:10.880
<v Speaker 5>there's this policy and I don't even quite fully understand

956
00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:13.880
<v Speaker 5>the policy, but it's complicated. So there's a ticking clock

957
00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:19.760
<v Speaker 5>right now to develop a policy that oversees deep sea mining,

958
00:47:19.960 --> 00:47:23.199
<v Speaker 5>and scientists are not happy about it. And the mining

959
00:47:23.199 --> 00:47:26.800
<v Speaker 5>companies are using these machines that look like these horrible

960
00:47:26.960 --> 00:47:30.199
<v Speaker 5>like I don't know, think of these machines and superhero

961
00:47:30.199 --> 00:47:33.519
<v Speaker 5>movies that all over cities like they're like they it's terrible.

962
00:47:33.559 --> 00:47:35.440
<v Speaker 5>It's like you like, could you make a machine that

963
00:47:35.480 --> 00:47:39.239
<v Speaker 5>looks more evil? I was like, how evil could it be?

964
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:41.400
<v Speaker 5>And it was more evil than I thought. Picture a

965
00:47:41.480 --> 00:47:46.559
<v Speaker 5>steamroller covered in giant mad Max spikes. It makes my

966
00:47:46.719 --> 00:47:50.280
<v Speaker 5>crotch hurt looking at it. Also, Holly mentioned some great

967
00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:53.760
<v Speaker 5>activists in this area, including a marine biologist and the

968
00:47:53.800 --> 00:47:58.880
<v Speaker 5>director of Species, Diva Ammen, and woodhole scientist and ocean

969
00:47:58.880 --> 00:48:02.960
<v Speaker 5>explorer julieh and senior research scientists at Big Low Laboratory

970
00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:05.679
<v Speaker 5>beth Or Cut And yes, they are all linked in

971
00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:07.800
<v Speaker 5>my website for this episode, which is linked in the

972
00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:10.199
<v Speaker 5>show notes, so do follow them. We need more press

973
00:48:10.239 --> 00:48:12.880
<v Speaker 5>coverage about the horrors of deep sea mining, and we

974
00:48:12.920 --> 00:48:15.840
<v Speaker 5>need the un to hear our voices and just elevate

975
00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:17.880
<v Speaker 5>the voices of the scientists and find out more about

976
00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:21.480
<v Speaker 5>those issues. And we need renewable technology, you know, we

977
00:48:21.519 --> 00:48:24.239
<v Speaker 5>need to convert our energy sources. But it's just it's

978
00:48:24.280 --> 00:48:26.039
<v Speaker 5>not worth it for destroying the deep sea.

979
00:48:26.280 --> 00:48:28.920
<v Speaker 2>Have you ever gotten to go down would you ever

980
00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:31.079
<v Speaker 2>want to go down to those depths? Like what's the

981
00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:34.440
<v Speaker 2>difference when it comes to research between like Rova's and submersibles.

982
00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:38.480
<v Speaker 2>Do deep sea biologists want to get down there or not?

983
00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:40.280
<v Speaker 4>Yes, we do.

984
00:48:41.079 --> 00:48:43.840
<v Speaker 5>Going in Alvin is my next bucket list thing. Antarctica

985
00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:45.719
<v Speaker 5>is my first, and so I kind of check that off,

986
00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:50.159
<v Speaker 5>and deep sea submersibles are my next thing that I

987
00:48:50.199 --> 00:48:52.239
<v Speaker 5>want to do. So yeah, I totally want to go

988
00:48:52.280 --> 00:48:55.559
<v Speaker 5>down there. And I think the research submersibles the safety

989
00:48:55.599 --> 00:48:59.119
<v Speaker 5>procedures are incredible. I mean, they would never send down

990
00:48:59.119 --> 00:49:01.360
<v Speaker 5>a human if they thought there was anything wrong with

991
00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:04.719
<v Speaker 5>the engineering. And every time they do upgrades to Alvin,

992
00:49:04.760 --> 00:49:07.000
<v Speaker 5>you know, they do a lot of test dives, and

993
00:49:07.599 --> 00:49:09.519
<v Speaker 5>by the time you're going in it like there's not

994
00:49:09.559 --> 00:49:10.880
<v Speaker 5>really any question about safety.

995
00:49:10.880 --> 00:49:12.360
<v Speaker 4>I mean, like it's always a risk, and I think

996
00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:14.360
<v Speaker 4>I would worry about it in the back of my mind.

997
00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:19.480
<v Speaker 5>But typically scientific submersibles are one of the safest things

998
00:49:19.480 --> 00:49:20.119
<v Speaker 5>that you can do.

999
00:49:20.440 --> 00:49:23.519
<v Speaker 2>I was like, one of the safest things you could do. Holly, really,

1000
00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:26.000
<v Speaker 2>I sat on my ass and did a thousand piece

1001
00:49:26.039 --> 00:49:28.519
<v Speaker 2>puzzle this past weekend and I felt pretty safe doing that.

1002
00:49:28.800 --> 00:49:31.639
<v Speaker 2>Then again, an hour ago, I was eating yogurt out

1003
00:49:31.639 --> 00:49:33.719
<v Speaker 2>of a pyre X measuring cup because all the bowls

1004
00:49:33.719 --> 00:49:36.199
<v Speaker 2>were in the dishwasher and I sliced my pinky finger,

1005
00:49:36.440 --> 00:49:38.119
<v Speaker 2>I bled on my shirt, So I don't know. I

1006
00:49:38.119 --> 00:49:40.320
<v Speaker 2>don't know what safety is. But I looked up some

1007
00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:45.719
<v Speaker 2>stats and this deep sea submersible has completed more than

1008
00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:49.880
<v Speaker 2>five thousand dives since the mid nineteen sixties. No deaths.

1009
00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:51.920
<v Speaker 2>But if you get in a car and go buy

1010
00:49:51.920 --> 00:49:54.519
<v Speaker 2>some granola, you have a one in ten million chance

1011
00:49:54.559 --> 00:49:57.639
<v Speaker 2>of meeting the reaper, which is not zero, so less

1012
00:49:57.719 --> 00:50:00.360
<v Speaker 2>dangerous than buying granola. Also, how many bones are we

1013
00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:04.719
<v Speaker 2>talking to board Alvin? Okay, well, between renting the mothership

1014
00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:08.840
<v Speaker 2>that it's attached to, it's like forty five thousand a day. Easy. Also,

1015
00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:12.159
<v Speaker 2>why Alvin? What does Alvin stand for? I think it's

1016
00:50:12.239 --> 00:50:17.760
<v Speaker 2>like aquatic life supporting vessel investigating nautical exploration. So I

1017
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:19.920
<v Speaker 2>looked it up because I knew it stood for something bonkers.

1018
00:50:20.119 --> 00:50:23.639
<v Speaker 2>But no, it's just named Alvin because a guy named

1019
00:50:23.719 --> 00:50:28.039
<v Speaker 2>Alan Vine convinced Woodshull Oceanographic Institute to build it in

1020
00:50:28.039 --> 00:50:31.280
<v Speaker 2>the sixties. Thanks Alan. Sadly, he ventured to the Great

1021
00:50:31.360 --> 00:50:34.360
<v Speaker 2>Beyond at the age of seventy nine in nineteen ninety four,

1022
00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:37.559
<v Speaker 2>but not in a submersible. But either way, Holly can't

1023
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:40.320
<v Speaker 2>email him and ask him for a favor. How do

1024
00:50:40.400 --> 00:50:43.719
<v Speaker 2>you get onto an Alvin or something like that? What

1025
00:50:43.800 --> 00:50:45.559
<v Speaker 2>kind of research do you have to do? How do

1026
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:47.119
<v Speaker 2>you plead your case? Who do you have to know?

1027
00:50:48.320 --> 00:50:49.239
<v Speaker 4>It's really hard.

1028
00:50:49.360 --> 00:50:52.159
<v Speaker 5>I would say, I think there's a lot of people

1029
00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:55.320
<v Speaker 5>that want to go down in Alvin, and it's difficult

1030
00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:57.280
<v Speaker 5>to get onto those cruises. So I mean I could

1031
00:50:57.320 --> 00:50:59.119
<v Speaker 5>get on in one of two ways. I could beg

1032
00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:02.760
<v Speaker 5>someone to get on their cruise and maybe get on Alvin.

1033
00:51:02.840 --> 00:51:05.440
<v Speaker 5>Or I could write a grant to include Alvin in

1034
00:51:05.519 --> 00:51:07.679
<v Speaker 5>my research. I have been trying to do that. I

1035
00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:11.159
<v Speaker 5>have not been successful so far. But even for scientists

1036
00:51:11.199 --> 00:51:11.639
<v Speaker 5>it's hard.

1037
00:51:11.920 --> 00:51:13.320
<v Speaker 2>How many scientists get to go on it?

1038
00:51:13.880 --> 00:51:16.119
<v Speaker 5>I would say, I mean a team of scientists on

1039
00:51:16.159 --> 00:51:19.280
<v Speaker 5>a boat is maybe twenty people, and you have multiple

1040
00:51:19.320 --> 00:51:22.559
<v Speaker 5>cruises per year that go sometimes it's the same people

1041
00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:25.840
<v Speaker 5>that go over again. But I think in the actual

1042
00:51:25.880 --> 00:51:28.039
<v Speaker 5>sub itself it's two scientists.

1043
00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:28.199
<v Speaker 4>And a pilot.

1044
00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:29.639
<v Speaker 2>Your odds are not zero.

1045
00:51:29.880 --> 00:51:32.760
<v Speaker 5>They're not zero, but it's so pretty hard.

1046
00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:35.679
<v Speaker 2>You'll get on there. Anyone listening to this who has

1047
00:51:36.519 --> 00:51:39.880
<v Speaker 2>an inn Can I ask you some questions from listeners?

1048
00:51:39.920 --> 00:51:40.079
<v Speaker 5>Yeah?

1049
00:51:40.159 --> 00:51:43.119
<v Speaker 2>Sure, okay, they know you're coming on. Get her on that, Alvin.

1050
00:51:43.239 --> 00:51:45.880
<v Speaker 2>Someone pull some strings or some ship ropes or air

1051
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:48.159
<v Speaker 2>hoses or what have you, and we donate to a

1052
00:51:48.199 --> 00:51:50.920
<v Speaker 2>cause of theologists choosing this week. Ally said, I would

1053
00:51:50.960 --> 00:51:54.079
<v Speaker 2>love it if you could support Earthjustice dot org. They

1054
00:51:54.119 --> 00:51:57.880
<v Speaker 2>are a wonderful nonprofit legal organization that tackles environmental issues

1055
00:51:57.920 --> 00:52:01.000
<v Speaker 2>related to public health, preservation of wild space, clean energy,

1056
00:52:01.079 --> 00:52:03.320
<v Speaker 2>and climate change and you can find out more about

1057
00:52:03.320 --> 00:52:06.639
<v Speaker 2>them at Earthjustice dot org. So thank you to sponsors

1058
00:52:06.639 --> 00:52:09.079
<v Speaker 2>to the show for making these donations every week possible.

1059
00:52:10.039 --> 00:52:12.320
<v Speaker 1>Your flat out and your to do list is growing

1060
00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:15.800
<v Speaker 1>by the minute, but unfortunately so is your headache, and

1061
00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:21.599
<v Speaker 1>now you've gone from flat out to flattened. Luckily, Panadal

1062
00:52:21.719 --> 00:52:25.000
<v Speaker 1>extra film coated tablets are boosted by caffeine and they

1063
00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:27.960
<v Speaker 1>get to work in as little as ten minutes for

1064
00:52:28.119 --> 00:52:31.639
<v Speaker 1>powerful relief. That's more than just paracetamol. That's one for

1065
00:52:31.760 --> 00:52:36.159
<v Speaker 1>Pana doll speed based on absorption data contains paracetamol. Always

1066
00:52:36.159 --> 00:52:36.800
<v Speaker 1>read the label or.

1067
00:52:36.840 --> 00:52:40.840
<v Speaker 2>Leaflet get value.

1068
00:52:40.880 --> 00:52:43.159
<v Speaker 3>You can't argue with fat Tesco with their amazing club

1069
00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:46.239
<v Speaker 3>card prices. Serve up something special with our finest meal

1070
00:52:46.280 --> 00:52:48.920
<v Speaker 3>deal for two starring one main, two sides and dessert

1071
00:52:48.960 --> 00:52:51.760
<v Speaker 3>for only sixteen eu row like succulent board be approved

1072
00:52:51.840 --> 00:52:54.920
<v Speaker 3>virush Angus strip loin steaks with peppercorn butter or delicious

1073
00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:58.280
<v Speaker 3>virus chicken parmeshama served with creamy potato grat term and

1074
00:52:58.360 --> 00:53:01.840
<v Speaker 3>our mix of rainbow root vegetables and enjoyed Goosillionaire or

1075
00:53:01.880 --> 00:53:05.480
<v Speaker 3>Solder caramel cheesecake. Can't argue with that shop instore or

1076
00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:08.679
<v Speaker 3>online tesco. Every little helps. I've been able to most

1077
00:53:08.679 --> 00:53:10.159
<v Speaker 3>doors prices very inn express.

1078
00:53:11.079 --> 00:53:14.199
<v Speaker 2>Okay, let's dig deep. Let's crack open a cold can

1079
00:53:14.199 --> 00:53:16.920
<v Speaker 2>of worms with your questions, including this one that was

1080
00:53:16.960 --> 00:53:20.400
<v Speaker 2>also asked by Belle Britney Rouis has a question, would

1081
00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:22.559
<v Speaker 2>you still love me if I was a worm?

1082
00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:24.559
<v Speaker 4>I'm going to get the.

1083
00:53:24.559 --> 00:53:26.679
<v Speaker 2>Answers yes on that right, I mean.

1084
00:53:28.199 --> 00:53:28.599
<v Speaker 4>Obvious.

1085
00:53:28.719 --> 00:53:30.800
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I'm going to see if that's a song lyric,

1086
00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:33.119
<v Speaker 2>but it might be just a just a good question

1087
00:53:33.199 --> 00:53:36.039
<v Speaker 2>for anyone. Of course it's a meme. Of course your

1088
00:53:36.119 --> 00:53:39.360
<v Speaker 2>dad me did not know this, but according to the

1089
00:53:39.400 --> 00:53:42.519
<v Speaker 2>Research Library Know your Meme dot com, would you still

1090
00:53:42.559 --> 00:53:45.159
<v Speaker 2>love me if I was a worm? Originated from a

1091
00:53:45.199 --> 00:53:49.079
<v Speaker 2>tweet by shut your hell that depicted a scenario of

1092
00:53:49.119 --> 00:53:51.840
<v Speaker 2>a woman crying at three am asking her husband if

1093
00:53:51.880 --> 00:53:54.559
<v Speaker 2>they were both born as worms, if he would still

1094
00:53:54.639 --> 00:54:00.800
<v Speaker 2>like her? Would they even have married? Who hasn't wondered this? Honestly? Worms?

1095
00:54:01.119 --> 00:54:02.800
<v Speaker 2>But if you have a few minutes and you want

1096
00:54:02.800 --> 00:54:06.079
<v Speaker 2>to hear someone with a fabulous accent recite their original

1097
00:54:06.119 --> 00:54:09.320
<v Speaker 2>poem about being loved as a worm, look no further

1098
00:54:09.440 --> 00:54:11.320
<v Speaker 2>than instagrammer miss Poneypenny.

1099
00:54:11.719 --> 00:54:14.480
<v Speaker 4>Would you still love me if I were a want them?

1100
00:54:14.679 --> 00:54:18.199
<v Speaker 2>And many of you, a shocking number, including Sam Isibrillard,

1101
00:54:18.239 --> 00:54:22.519
<v Speaker 2>Emily Staufer, laser intro legator Kleb, and Slayer needed to know.

1102
00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:27.039
<v Speaker 2>Do nematologists cut their worms into pieces? Is this their

1103
00:54:27.159 --> 00:54:29.559
<v Speaker 2>lab research? Sam wants to know if you cut a

1104
00:54:29.559 --> 00:54:31.800
<v Speaker 2>worm in pieces, will each of those pieces become new worms?

1105
00:54:31.880 --> 00:54:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Or is that only certain worms?

1106
00:54:33.360 --> 00:54:37.599
<v Speaker 5>That is only certain worms, that is flatworms, not nematodes,

1107
00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:40.679
<v Speaker 5>although we do have one nematode that can regrow its tail.

1108
00:54:41.039 --> 00:54:43.400
<v Speaker 5>And actually that worm is really cool because it's basically

1109
00:54:43.480 --> 00:54:45.079
<v Speaker 5>like a two filled with bacteria.

1110
00:54:45.199 --> 00:54:47.239
<v Speaker 4>So it's lost its gut and.

1111
00:54:47.159 --> 00:54:50.239
<v Speaker 5>It's just like packed its former gut with these symbiotic

1112
00:54:50.280 --> 00:54:52.840
<v Speaker 5>bacteria and it's lost its mouth and it just hangs

1113
00:54:52.880 --> 00:54:54.800
<v Speaker 5>out and it if it loses his tail, that like

1114
00:54:54.880 --> 00:54:56.920
<v Speaker 5>regrows it and seals the bacteria back in.

1115
00:54:57.760 --> 00:54:59.639
<v Speaker 2>And we have nematodes in us, right.

1116
00:55:00.639 --> 00:55:04.480
<v Speaker 5>I hope you don't really. I mean, if you ate dirt,

1117
00:55:04.519 --> 00:55:06.800
<v Speaker 5>you might, but we would not. I mean, if you

1118
00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:07.119
<v Speaker 5>had a.

1119
00:55:07.079 --> 00:55:08.440
<v Speaker 4>Parasite, you would, but okay.

1120
00:55:08.639 --> 00:55:10.719
<v Speaker 5>Or you like drink some drinking water with a worm,

1121
00:55:10.760 --> 00:55:12.920
<v Speaker 5>you might, but yeah, you should not have nematodes in.

1122
00:55:12.880 --> 00:55:14.519
<v Speaker 2>You, okay, just checking. I wasn't sure if that's one

1123
00:55:14.519 --> 00:55:16.440
<v Speaker 2>of those things like of course you have a bazillion

1124
00:55:16.440 --> 00:55:19.000
<v Speaker 2>nematodes or it's like if you do, you better you

1125
00:55:19.079 --> 00:55:21.760
<v Speaker 2>better call nine one one or something, okay.

1126
00:55:21.920 --> 00:55:24.239
<v Speaker 5>Or you've like eaten some uncooked pork, you know, nematodes

1127
00:55:24.239 --> 00:55:26.400
<v Speaker 5>are the reason why we cook pork to whatever degree

1128
00:55:26.440 --> 00:55:29.079
<v Speaker 5>temperature because trick and Ella is the pork parasite.

1129
00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:30.280
<v Speaker 4>Really, yeah, that'd be bad.

1130
00:55:30.559 --> 00:55:33.559
<v Speaker 2>So if you eat these undercooked pork worms, they start

1131
00:55:33.599 --> 00:55:36.000
<v Speaker 2>their journey in your guts and then they move to

1132
00:55:36.039 --> 00:55:40.360
<v Speaker 2>your muscles to make babies. You might experience such sensations

1133
00:55:40.360 --> 00:55:45.719
<v Speaker 2>as nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, fever, fatigue, and abdominal discomfort before

1134
00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:49.639
<v Speaker 2>it escalates to headaches, fevers, chills, cough, swelling of the

1135
00:55:49.760 --> 00:55:53.159
<v Speaker 2>face and eyes, aching joints, and muscle pains, as well

1136
00:55:53.199 --> 00:55:56.559
<v Speaker 2>as itchy skin and constipation. And according to the Beach

1137
00:55:56.639 --> 00:56:01.239
<v Speaker 2>read the Textbook of Medical Microbiology and Terek, nematodes are

1138
00:56:01.280 --> 00:56:05.639
<v Speaker 2>among the most common and widely distributed animal parasites in humans.

1139
00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:08.519
<v Speaker 2>And in nineteen forty six, apparently they had a worm

1140
00:56:08.599 --> 00:56:12.519
<v Speaker 2>meeting via the American Society of Parasitologists, and this one

1141
00:56:12.599 --> 00:56:16.880
<v Speaker 2>expert gave a lively lecture titled This Wormy World and

1142
00:56:17.079 --> 00:56:21.760
<v Speaker 2>estimated a truly gergantuan number of all kinds of nematode

1143
00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:25.639
<v Speaker 2>infections in humans. But if you don't want pork cyst

1144
00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:29.679
<v Speaker 2>infections specifically, the CD says to cook those chops at

1145
00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:32.880
<v Speaker 2>one thirty degrees fahrenheit for thirty minutes or at one

1146
00:56:33.039 --> 00:56:36.119
<v Speaker 2>forty for one minute. That's like fifty five to sixty

1147
00:56:36.320 --> 00:56:40.320
<v Speaker 2>in celsius. If you're concerned. Also, please wash your porky

1148
00:56:40.360 --> 00:56:43.960
<v Speaker 2>hands before eating fingerfoods. Your body will thank you, your

1149
00:56:43.960 --> 00:56:47.800
<v Speaker 2>toilet will thank you. One person asked. Jennifer Machin asked,

1150
00:56:47.840 --> 00:56:50.679
<v Speaker 2>jumping worms they haven't got no legs. Have you ever

1151
00:56:50.679 --> 00:56:51.679
<v Speaker 2>heard of jumping worms?

1152
00:56:52.239 --> 00:56:57.280
<v Speaker 5>There is a jumping nematode yep okay z shiragane. How

1153
00:56:57.280 --> 00:57:00.320
<v Speaker 5>can marine worms get crazy adaptations to make make them

1154
00:57:00.360 --> 00:57:04.000
<v Speaker 5>look like wild little aliens while terrestrial worms are normal

1155
00:57:04.079 --> 00:57:07.960
<v Speaker 5>and boring? Well, that is not accurate because terrestrial worms

1156
00:57:07.960 --> 00:57:13.119
<v Speaker 5>basically like have harpoons in their mouths. So the terrestrial

1157
00:57:13.159 --> 00:57:17.119
<v Speaker 5>nematodes I said, they eat plant roots and fungi juice,

1158
00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:19.360
<v Speaker 5>so they have evolved like a harpoon in their mouth

1159
00:57:19.360 --> 00:57:21.599
<v Speaker 5>that they will stick out and puncture a plant root

1160
00:57:21.639 --> 00:57:24.239
<v Speaker 5>and then stuck out the juices. So I would argue

1161
00:57:24.320 --> 00:57:26.760
<v Speaker 5>that the terrestial adaptations are even crazier than some of

1162
00:57:26.760 --> 00:57:27.400
<v Speaker 5>the marine ones.

1163
00:57:27.559 --> 00:57:31.679
<v Speaker 2>Holy smokes. Sam wants to know what's the wiggliest worm species?

1164
00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:34.239
<v Speaker 2>Is there a way to quantify that? Who wiggles the most?

1165
00:57:34.400 --> 00:57:36.360
<v Speaker 4>I mean, my answer is always going to be nematodes.

1166
00:57:36.559 --> 00:57:37.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, I take it.

1167
00:57:37.920 --> 00:57:40.079
<v Speaker 5>They thrash around in an sh shape because that's the

1168
00:57:40.079 --> 00:57:42.400
<v Speaker 5>only way they can move because they're lacking some key

1169
00:57:42.480 --> 00:57:43.480
<v Speaker 5>muscles for wriggling.

1170
00:57:43.719 --> 00:57:46.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, when you are a worm, you just

1171
00:57:46.519 --> 00:57:49.360
<v Speaker 2>whip your worm back and forth. Craig Collins wants to know,

1172
00:57:50.039 --> 00:57:53.079
<v Speaker 2>would love to know about the research surrounding worm memory.

1173
00:57:53.239 --> 00:57:55.360
<v Speaker 2>I recall that if you teach a worm a maze

1174
00:57:55.400 --> 00:57:58.400
<v Speaker 2>and then grind them up and feed them to another worm, Oh,

1175
00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:01.159
<v Speaker 2>my dear, that worm will know how to solve the maze.

1176
00:58:01.239 --> 00:58:03.599
<v Speaker 5>Is this true?

1177
00:58:03.960 --> 00:58:04.199
<v Speaker 4>Ah?

1178
00:58:04.320 --> 00:58:07.559
<v Speaker 5>This sounds like a very far outside my area of expertise.

1179
00:58:07.639 --> 00:58:09.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes, that may have been apocryphal, that may not.

1180
00:58:10.039 --> 00:58:12.480
<v Speaker 5>I mean, I know c elegance is used in Alzheimer's

1181
00:58:12.480 --> 00:58:14.840
<v Speaker 5>research because one of the reasons it's a useful model

1182
00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:16.920
<v Speaker 5>is because it has some of the same proteins and

1183
00:58:17.440 --> 00:58:21.039
<v Speaker 5>neural pathways that for human diseases. So like Parkinson's and

1184
00:58:21.239 --> 00:58:23.480
<v Speaker 5>I believe Alzheimer's. Yes, we have a lot of proteins

1185
00:58:23.480 --> 00:58:25.639
<v Speaker 5>in common with the lily nematode.

1186
00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:28.719
<v Speaker 2>Can you feed a worm to a worm? All right?

1187
00:58:28.800 --> 00:58:32.320
<v Speaker 2>I looked into this, but because there are thousands upon

1188
00:58:32.519 --> 00:58:36.039
<v Speaker 2>thousands of sea elegant studies and I have to bathe

1189
00:58:36.119 --> 00:58:38.519
<v Speaker 2>and eat at some point my goose was cooked here,

1190
00:58:38.840 --> 00:58:41.519
<v Speaker 2>I'd never find the study. I did find one titled

1191
00:58:41.639 --> 00:58:45.320
<v Speaker 2>Principles for Coding Associative Memories in a Compact Neural network

1192
00:58:45.440 --> 00:58:49.280
<v Speaker 2>about worm's memories to avoid stinky stuff. And there was

1193
00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:53.159
<v Speaker 2>this other study with this effusive name, an Elegant Mind,

1194
00:58:53.440 --> 00:58:58.159
<v Speaker 2>Learning and Memory in Sea Elegance, which detailed worm plasticity

1195
00:58:58.280 --> 00:59:01.880
<v Speaker 2>of the tap withdrawal response, which is just a fancy

1196
00:59:01.960 --> 00:59:05.400
<v Speaker 2>term for worms doing the backstroke in response to tapping

1197
00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:08.599
<v Speaker 2>the petri dish containing the worm. They're like dang earthquake.

1198
00:59:08.719 --> 00:59:11.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm out. There was also a very recent study, likely

1199
00:59:11.960 --> 00:59:15.480
<v Speaker 2>the Talk of Worm twenty three, about how descendants of

1200
00:59:15.559 --> 00:59:19.320
<v Speaker 2>worms trained to fear a certain odor also got stressed

1201
00:59:19.320 --> 00:59:22.519
<v Speaker 2>out by that odor, and that fear was transmitted to

1202
00:59:22.639 --> 00:59:27.679
<v Speaker 2>the offsprings cells nucleus via sperm, but not oocytes. So

1203
00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:32.440
<v Speaker 2>paternal odor trauma affected future generations as a way of

1204
00:59:32.480 --> 00:59:35.239
<v Speaker 2>a warning system. And just when I felt dazzled and

1205
00:59:35.360 --> 00:59:39.119
<v Speaker 2>overwormed by info, I finally stumbled upon that holy grail

1206
00:59:39.239 --> 00:59:41.400
<v Speaker 2>of worm research I was looking for. I thought I'd

1207
00:59:41.400 --> 00:59:43.639
<v Speaker 2>never find it, but I found it. Folks, magoose was

1208
00:59:43.679 --> 00:59:45.679
<v Speaker 2>not cooked. So in twenty twenty one there was a

1209
00:59:45.719 --> 00:59:48.320
<v Speaker 2>study out of Princeton and it was called the role

1210
00:59:48.480 --> 00:59:54.239
<v Speaker 2>of the sir one transposon in horizontal transfer of transgenerational memory,

1211
00:59:54.440 --> 00:59:57.840
<v Speaker 2>about which doctor Colleen Murphy, who was the principal investigator

1212
00:59:57.840 --> 01:00:01.360
<v Speaker 2>on this explained, we found that one worm can learn

1213
01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:05.639
<v Speaker 2>to avoid a pathogenic bacterium if we grind up that worm,

1214
01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:08.559
<v Speaker 2>or even just use the media the worms are swimming

1215
01:00:08.599 --> 01:00:12.000
<v Speaker 2>in and give that media or the crushed worm to

1216
01:00:12.199 --> 01:00:15.679
<v Speaker 2>naive worms. These worms now learn to avoid the pathogen

1217
01:00:15.760 --> 01:00:19.519
<v Speaker 2>as well. Doctor Murphy explained, So there you have it. It's true.

1218
01:00:19.559 --> 01:00:24.679
<v Speaker 2>One millimeter tiny nematodes transfer warnings, memories, and I suppose

1219
01:00:24.880 --> 01:00:28.079
<v Speaker 2>trauma to each other by swimming in the same goop,

1220
01:00:28.519 --> 01:00:31.519
<v Speaker 2>or eating each other or being I guess fed each

1221
01:00:31.559 --> 01:00:35.880
<v Speaker 2>other by scientists. And yes, this information about worms is interesting,

1222
01:00:36.199 --> 01:00:39.599
<v Speaker 2>but I hope it opens your heart to the possibility

1223
01:00:39.639 --> 01:00:43.440
<v Speaker 2>of more empathy for just every living creature you ever encounter,

1224
01:00:43.880 --> 01:00:47.599
<v Speaker 2>including the bitchy receptionist at my dentist's office. You don't

1225
01:00:47.599 --> 01:00:50.119
<v Speaker 2>know what her great grandparents went through. Neither do I.

1226
01:00:50.360 --> 01:00:50.519
<v Speaker 4>Now.

1227
01:00:50.519 --> 01:00:53.199
<v Speaker 2>If you'd like to know more about worms on drugs,

1228
01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:56.159
<v Speaker 2>you can check out the Plenariology episode, which is a

1229
01:00:56.199 --> 01:01:00.360
<v Speaker 2>stunning and charming one with Doctor one Pegan, who we love.

1230
01:01:00.679 --> 01:01:02.880
<v Speaker 2>So you have more in common with the rest of

1231
01:01:02.920 --> 01:01:07.159
<v Speaker 2>the world than you ever thought possible. So welcome, welcome

1232
01:01:07.239 --> 01:01:11.480
<v Speaker 2>to unity with worms. I mean, we share so much

1233
01:01:11.559 --> 01:01:15.719
<v Speaker 2>DNA even with yeast yep alex rtman wants to know

1234
01:01:15.760 --> 01:01:19.039
<v Speaker 2>what is the deepest underground a worm has been found. Also,

1235
01:01:19.079 --> 01:01:22.320
<v Speaker 2>maybe this sounds strange, but do landworms have community? Like

1236
01:01:22.360 --> 01:01:24.800
<v Speaker 2>are they down there building nests or networks of tunnels

1237
01:01:24.840 --> 01:01:27.079
<v Speaker 2>together or do they just occasionally bump into each other

1238
01:01:27.440 --> 01:01:31.119
<v Speaker 2>say a quick eye and move on? Do worms acknowledge

1239
01:01:31.440 --> 01:01:34.360
<v Speaker 2>the presence of other worms in marine environments? And yeah,

1240
01:01:34.400 --> 01:01:36.280
<v Speaker 2>like how deep do you think worms go?

1241
01:01:37.679 --> 01:01:39.320
<v Speaker 5>I believe the deep it and I'm going to talk

1242
01:01:39.320 --> 01:01:42.840
<v Speaker 5>about nematodes specifically. The deepest that we found is that

1243
01:01:42.880 --> 01:01:45.280
<v Speaker 5>one in the South African diamond mind, and I.

1244
01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:48.000
<v Speaker 4>Believe it's like three kilometers. It's pretty deep.

1245
01:01:48.280 --> 01:01:50.639
<v Speaker 2>How did they find a worm? Were they looking for worms?

1246
01:01:51.239 --> 01:01:53.920
<v Speaker 5>I'm maybe because there's a lot of like a subsurface

1247
01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:56.920
<v Speaker 5>microbiology research, but mostly what they find down there is

1248
01:01:56.960 --> 01:02:00.000
<v Speaker 5>just bacteria and fungi. But then they found a nematode

1249
01:02:00.079 --> 01:02:01.199
<v Speaker 5>and then it was a science paper.

1250
01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:04.039
<v Speaker 2>Did that person have to name the nematode?

1251
01:02:04.480 --> 01:02:07.239
<v Speaker 5>I think they invoked vampires, but I can't remember the

1252
01:02:07.320 --> 01:02:08.039
<v Speaker 5>exact name.

1253
01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:11.119
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I got you. So this worm was found in

1254
01:02:11.159 --> 01:02:14.320
<v Speaker 2>twenty eleven in a gold mine over two miles below

1255
01:02:14.360 --> 01:02:17.400
<v Speaker 2>the surface of the Earth, and the geoscientists who first

1256
01:02:17.440 --> 01:02:21.440
<v Speaker 2>saw it described them as half millimeter black, little swirly

1257
01:02:21.519 --> 01:02:24.719
<v Speaker 2>things that quote scared the life out of me when

1258
01:02:24.719 --> 01:02:28.199
<v Speaker 2>I first saw them moving. So you can read more

1259
01:02:28.360 --> 01:02:32.280
<v Speaker 2>about their discovery and the paper Nematoda from the terrestrial

1260
01:02:32.320 --> 01:02:35.599
<v Speaker 2>deep subsurface of South Africa. But the long and short

1261
01:02:35.639 --> 01:02:38.840
<v Speaker 2>of these teenies is their genus and species is Hella

1262
01:02:38.920 --> 01:02:45.480
<v Speaker 2>Cephalobis Mephisto, named after the underworld demon Mephistopheles, whose name

1263
01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:49.480
<v Speaker 2>itself means he who loves not the light. And if

1264
01:02:49.480 --> 01:02:53.079
<v Speaker 2>this vibe of darkness intrigues you, please find the link

1265
01:02:53.079 --> 01:02:55.480
<v Speaker 2>in the show notes with all of our Spooktober episodes,

1266
01:02:55.559 --> 01:03:00.280
<v Speaker 2>including a two parter on vampire lore with expert Jeff Men,

1267
01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:07.079
<v Speaker 2>a demonology episode, bats, spiderwebs, bones, body farms, catacombs, forest creatures,

1268
01:03:07.239 --> 01:03:11.679
<v Speaker 2>got one on vultures, mortuary, makeup, pumpkins and more. But yes,

1269
01:03:11.760 --> 01:03:13.320
<v Speaker 2>worms named after demons.

1270
01:03:13.480 --> 01:03:14.159
<v Speaker 4>What a world?

1271
01:03:14.199 --> 01:03:17.199
<v Speaker 2>What a beautiful world? Have you gotten to name any nemotodes?

1272
01:03:17.800 --> 01:03:19.840
<v Speaker 5>Not yet, but we are trying to do that with

1273
01:03:19.920 --> 01:03:22.880
<v Speaker 5>the Antarctic samples that's on the radar it's just really

1274
01:03:22.920 --> 01:03:27.719
<v Speaker 5>hard to name nematode species because you need some ridiculous

1275
01:03:27.760 --> 01:03:30.400
<v Speaker 5>amount of individuals from the same species.

1276
01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:31.360
<v Speaker 2>What are we talking.

1277
01:03:31.519 --> 01:03:34.719
<v Speaker 5>You need like five females and five males and then

1278
01:03:34.760 --> 01:03:38.840
<v Speaker 5>some juveniles, and usually sometimes we never find more than

1279
01:03:38.880 --> 01:03:41.960
<v Speaker 5>one nematode from a given species. So, like just getting

1280
01:03:42.039 --> 01:03:44.400
<v Speaker 5>the checklist of things you need to describe species is

1281
01:03:44.440 --> 01:03:47.039
<v Speaker 5>actually really hard for nemotodes because there's all these rules

1282
01:03:47.039 --> 01:03:49.880
<v Speaker 5>written in the eighteen hundreds that don't make sense anymore.

1283
01:03:50.639 --> 01:03:53.360
<v Speaker 2>Do you have a mentor or someone that you really

1284
01:03:53.760 --> 01:03:56.639
<v Speaker 2>admire that you would want to name or would would

1285
01:03:56.639 --> 01:04:00.440
<v Speaker 2>you name it like a Chewbacca nematode or something like that.

1286
01:04:00.440 --> 01:04:01.280
<v Speaker 4>That's a good question.

1287
01:04:01.400 --> 01:04:04.519
<v Speaker 5>I haven't actually thought about that, And I don't know

1288
01:04:04.599 --> 01:04:07.519
<v Speaker 5>how I feel about naming nematodes after people, because there's

1289
01:04:07.559 --> 01:04:11.360
<v Speaker 5>been some pretty big press about like why we name

1290
01:04:11.440 --> 01:04:14.360
<v Speaker 5>species after people and why that may or may not

1291
01:04:14.440 --> 01:04:17.400
<v Speaker 5>be a good thing. Maybe I would name one after Buddha,

1292
01:04:17.480 --> 01:04:20.079
<v Speaker 5>because well, that would still a fend some people, but

1293
01:04:20.119 --> 01:04:21.960
<v Speaker 5>I feel like that's what I would be comfortable with.

1294
01:04:23.519 --> 01:04:25.599
<v Speaker 2>But that's a problem that you're gonna have to catch

1295
01:04:25.599 --> 01:04:27.920
<v Speaker 2>a lot more worms. Yeah, to even have that problem.

1296
01:04:28.440 --> 01:04:30.800
<v Speaker 2>Curious Kat wants to know do worms have a nervous

1297
01:04:30.800 --> 01:04:33.400
<v Speaker 2>system or is it species reliant? They don't seem to

1298
01:04:33.440 --> 01:04:36.519
<v Speaker 2>have eyes, but are they like jellyfish and able to

1299
01:04:36.559 --> 01:04:39.480
<v Speaker 2>detect light? So what kinds of sensory organs are we

1300
01:04:39.519 --> 01:04:39.920
<v Speaker 2>looking at?

1301
01:04:40.239 --> 01:04:41.559
<v Speaker 4>So I'll give you this card.

1302
01:04:41.639 --> 01:04:45.719
<v Speaker 2>A translucent slim faced baby. It looks like one of

1303
01:04:45.800 --> 01:04:49.840
<v Speaker 2>those long nosed Russian wolfhounds, but with two little red

1304
01:04:49.880 --> 01:04:55.000
<v Speaker 2>dots snugly close together on its snoop oh spots.

1305
01:04:55.719 --> 01:04:59.239
<v Speaker 5>So those are a celle also known as eye spots.

1306
01:05:00.039 --> 01:05:02.800
<v Speaker 5>And this is a nematode that lives in kelp hold

1307
01:05:02.920 --> 01:05:05.119
<v Speaker 5>fast like when they attach to rock. You have that

1308
01:05:05.159 --> 01:05:07.920
<v Speaker 5>like squiggly massive roots, and you have a nematode that

1309
01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:10.559
<v Speaker 5>only lives in those roots. And for some reason they

1310
01:05:10.559 --> 01:05:13.519
<v Speaker 5>have these eye spots. We don't really know why, but

1311
01:05:13.639 --> 01:05:16.400
<v Speaker 5>a lot of nematodes will have these dark patches of

1312
01:05:16.440 --> 01:05:19.599
<v Speaker 5>pigment that they're not really true eyes, but they're pigmented

1313
01:05:19.639 --> 01:05:23.880
<v Speaker 5>and they're most likely detecting light. So some do use

1314
01:05:23.960 --> 01:05:26.400
<v Speaker 5>light to sense environments, but the majority of them use

1315
01:05:26.480 --> 01:05:29.039
<v Speaker 5>the amfids, the sensory pores on the side of their head.

1316
01:05:29.039 --> 01:05:30.280
<v Speaker 5>Those Princess Leiah buns.

1317
01:05:30.440 --> 01:05:33.039
<v Speaker 2>Does the information that these eyespots gather does it get

1318
01:05:33.039 --> 01:05:34.320
<v Speaker 2>processed anywhere in the worm?

1319
01:05:34.920 --> 01:05:38.079
<v Speaker 5>We don't know, and that's a good question. I do

1320
01:05:38.159 --> 01:05:40.719
<v Speaker 5>more like ecology and evolution research, so I don't necessarily

1321
01:05:40.800 --> 01:05:43.159
<v Speaker 5>study the nervous systems. But I mean, if we're using

1322
01:05:43.159 --> 01:05:46.159
<v Speaker 5>nematodes in like Alzheimer's research, then I'm assuming they have

1323
01:05:46.679 --> 01:05:48.960
<v Speaker 5>some sensory information that's useful.

1324
01:05:49.239 --> 01:05:51.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Ooh, can I keep this one?

1325
01:05:51.239 --> 01:05:51.440
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

1326
01:05:51.480 --> 01:05:55.679
<v Speaker 2>This one is also aldoramble. So if, like patron Curious Cat,

1327
01:05:55.719 --> 01:06:00.039
<v Speaker 2>you're wondering where these flesh tubes store their brains, the

1328
01:06:00.119 --> 01:06:02.960
<v Speaker 2>answer is in a ring around their throats, kind of

1329
01:06:03.039 --> 01:06:06.119
<v Speaker 2>like an airplane neck pillow, full of thoughts and feelings

1330
01:06:06.239 --> 01:06:10.280
<v Speaker 2>and horniness and transgenerational fears of odors. And there was

1331
01:06:10.360 --> 01:06:12.400
<v Speaker 2>a twenty twenty one article out of the University of

1332
01:06:12.480 --> 01:06:15.199
<v Speaker 2>Leeds and the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New

1333
01:06:15.280 --> 01:06:19.199
<v Speaker 2>York titled a Multi scale Brain Map derived from Whole

1334
01:06:19.239 --> 01:06:23.119
<v Speaker 2>Brain Volumetric Reconstructions, and it found that there's a network

1335
01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:27.880
<v Speaker 2>architecture of c. Elegan's brains that support sensory computation and

1336
01:06:28.039 --> 01:06:31.760
<v Speaker 2>brain wide coordination and Essentially, our brains may have more

1337
01:06:31.760 --> 01:06:34.880
<v Speaker 2>in common across all kinds of phyla. So if you

1338
01:06:34.960 --> 01:06:38.039
<v Speaker 2>ever meet a worm at a party, you already have

1339
01:06:38.159 --> 01:06:40.880
<v Speaker 2>a lot of similarities you can talk about. Now, what

1340
01:06:40.960 --> 01:06:44.360
<v Speaker 2>about getting it on? How is that happening? Patrons Chris

1341
01:06:44.440 --> 01:06:47.079
<v Speaker 2>Maguire and Sarah King wanted to know, and Sarah, who

1342
01:06:47.159 --> 01:06:49.960
<v Speaker 2>has such a soft spot in their heart for worms, asked,

1343
01:06:50.079 --> 01:06:52.639
<v Speaker 2>do they come from eggs? Please give me their backstory.

1344
01:06:52.679 --> 01:06:55.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm way too emotionally attached, and that's the energy I'm

1345
01:06:55.480 --> 01:06:57.800
<v Speaker 2>looking for. Sarah Ellen Jernal wants to know how the

1346
01:06:57.840 --> 01:06:58.760
<v Speaker 2>heck did they reproduce?

1347
01:06:59.280 --> 01:07:03.320
<v Speaker 5>Okay, that's fun, all right. First of all, I said,

1348
01:07:03.559 --> 01:07:08.960
<v Speaker 5>nematodes have males and females, so sexual reproduction male nematodes

1349
01:07:08.960 --> 01:07:13.280
<v Speaker 5>one of the defining taxonomic characteristics is something called a spicule, okay,

1350
01:07:13.360 --> 01:07:16.760
<v Speaker 5>which I describe as like picture a steak that you

1351
01:07:16.880 --> 01:07:19.960
<v Speaker 5>use to kill a vampire. So like this giant like

1352
01:07:20.199 --> 01:07:23.079
<v Speaker 5>er wooden thing that's pointy at both ends. Male nematodes

1353
01:07:23.119 --> 01:07:26.519
<v Speaker 5>have two of those, and they will eject those and

1354
01:07:26.599 --> 01:07:30.519
<v Speaker 5>then slam them into the female nematode to like pry

1355
01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:33.599
<v Speaker 5>open her reproductive track. And then like throw some sperm

1356
01:07:33.639 --> 01:07:33.880
<v Speaker 5>in there.

1357
01:07:33.960 --> 01:07:38.199
<v Speaker 2>Oh, a bit rude. Does he like vampires? Does it

1358
01:07:38.280 --> 01:07:40.920
<v Speaker 2>have to be invited or is it just like they can?

1359
01:07:40.960 --> 01:07:42.920
<v Speaker 2>And how do they sense a female? Well, how do

1360
01:07:42.920 --> 01:07:45.119
<v Speaker 2>they know that there's a female reproductive track even around?

1361
01:07:45.280 --> 01:07:47.719
<v Speaker 5>That is a very good question. I do not have

1362
01:07:47.760 --> 01:07:51.039
<v Speaker 5>an answer to that. But they don't necessarily Another fun fact,

1363
01:07:51.039 --> 01:07:53.199
<v Speaker 5>they don't necessarily have to put it exactly in the

1364
01:07:53.239 --> 01:07:56.519
<v Speaker 5>right place. There is this reproductive strategy in nematodes called

1365
01:07:56.559 --> 01:07:57.760
<v Speaker 5>traumatic insemination.

1366
01:07:58.000 --> 01:08:00.960
<v Speaker 2>Heard about this bed bugs do it too, right, yep, yep.

1367
01:08:01.000 --> 01:08:03.679
<v Speaker 5>So they may just use those steaks to like stab

1368
01:08:03.800 --> 01:08:06.280
<v Speaker 5>the female anywhere, you know, and just like throw some

1369
01:08:06.320 --> 01:08:09.199
<v Speaker 5>sperm wherever, and then I believe the female will take

1370
01:08:09.239 --> 01:08:11.039
<v Speaker 5>the sperm and then just like migrate it to the

1371
01:08:11.039 --> 01:08:11.679
<v Speaker 5>correct place.

1372
01:08:12.519 --> 01:08:15.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't like it. Oh, Christopher Blabout wants to know

1373
01:08:15.480 --> 01:08:17.880
<v Speaker 2>with your work in Antarctica and then a little flag

1374
01:08:17.920 --> 01:08:20.720
<v Speaker 2>there are there worms that can survive the dry climate

1375
01:08:20.800 --> 01:08:24.079
<v Speaker 2>and extreme salinity of areas like the dry valleys we

1376
01:08:24.079 --> 01:08:24.760
<v Speaker 2>were talking about.

1377
01:08:24.880 --> 01:08:25.600
<v Speaker 4>Yep, yep.

1378
01:08:25.680 --> 01:08:27.680
<v Speaker 5>We have a lot of nematodes there, not a lot,

1379
01:08:27.960 --> 01:08:31.119
<v Speaker 5>so there are many fewer species. The biodiversity is really

1380
01:08:31.159 --> 01:08:34.479
<v Speaker 5>low in the dry valleys. But it's an interesting environment

1381
01:08:34.600 --> 01:08:38.039
<v Speaker 5>because you have very strong connection to like the microbial

1382
01:08:38.039 --> 01:08:41.680
<v Speaker 5>communities and yeah, definitely high salinity, I mean also pollution.

1383
01:08:41.880 --> 01:08:43.520
<v Speaker 5>So once some of the worms I study are like

1384
01:08:43.560 --> 01:08:45.239
<v Speaker 5>in the Port of la where there's all.

1385
01:08:45.159 --> 01:08:47.039
<v Speaker 4>Like gunk and DDT that's buried.

1386
01:08:47.439 --> 01:08:49.600
<v Speaker 5>And one of the things that my work is doing

1387
01:08:49.720 --> 01:08:52.199
<v Speaker 5>is trying to figure out if we have specific nematode

1388
01:08:52.239 --> 01:08:55.600
<v Speaker 5>species that love pollution and they can thrive in environments

1389
01:08:55.640 --> 01:08:58.640
<v Speaker 5>like that. So we're trying to use them as bioindicators

1390
01:08:59.039 --> 01:09:04.239
<v Speaker 5>as habitat a pristineness or impactedness, and we use the

1391
01:09:04.359 --> 01:09:06.880
<v Speaker 5>NA sequencing nowadays for that. But the goal is to

1392
01:09:06.920 --> 01:09:10.840
<v Speaker 5>be like this nematode loves pollution. Well, we were bad yesterday.

1393
01:09:10.880 --> 01:09:12.119
<v Speaker 5>We were about to go snorkeling. We were on the

1394
01:09:12.159 --> 01:09:14.439
<v Speaker 5>dock and I was like, hey, you guys, here there's

1395
01:09:14.439 --> 01:09:17.239
<v Speaker 5>some DDT barrels buried off the coast of Catalina and

1396
01:09:17.279 --> 01:09:19.000
<v Speaker 5>You're like, oh yeah, I'm trying to get some samples

1397
01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:20.640
<v Speaker 5>of it. And I was like, what is a likelihood.

1398
01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:24.079
<v Speaker 2>I'm standing on a dock with someone who's like, oh yeah,

1399
01:09:23.760 --> 01:09:26.800
<v Speaker 2>I got someone number one, Where are those barrels, and

1400
01:09:26.840 --> 01:09:28.800
<v Speaker 2>how do you get access to the gunk that might

1401
01:09:28.840 --> 01:09:29.640
<v Speaker 2>be linking out of them.

1402
01:09:30.039 --> 01:09:33.560
<v Speaker 5>I believe they are somewhere off the coast of San Diego,

1403
01:09:34.239 --> 01:09:36.640
<v Speaker 5>And I mean it's kind of as easy as emailing

1404
01:09:36.840 --> 01:09:39.000
<v Speaker 5>researchers that are going out there. So I actually may

1405
01:09:39.000 --> 01:09:42.039
<v Speaker 5>have an email when you might inbox about the DDT barrels.

1406
01:09:42.239 --> 01:09:44.159
<v Speaker 2>But they're not like right off the coast here.

1407
01:09:44.439 --> 01:09:46.359
<v Speaker 5>Well, they're off the coast of like San Diego somewhere.

1408
01:09:46.439 --> 01:09:48.199
<v Speaker 5>They're not that far off the coast. I mean, you come,

1409
01:09:48.199 --> 01:09:50.399
<v Speaker 5>come in a sailboat and go there. But they're deep, right,

1410
01:09:50.439 --> 01:09:53.279
<v Speaker 5>so you need the deep sea core equipment. You need

1411
01:09:53.319 --> 01:09:55.840
<v Speaker 5>an ROV or something to like go down there and

1412
01:09:55.960 --> 01:09:59.680
<v Speaker 5>gingerly push the PBC tube into the gunky spot world

1413
01:09:59.720 --> 01:10:01.479
<v Speaker 5>the da leaked out woof.

1414
01:10:01.720 --> 01:10:03.239
<v Speaker 2>And so if you can find if there's a higher

1415
01:10:03.239 --> 01:10:05.239
<v Speaker 2>population of certain worms, then you can kind of figure

1416
01:10:05.239 --> 01:10:07.359
<v Speaker 2>out if we get a lot of these worms over here,

1417
01:10:07.399 --> 01:10:09.000
<v Speaker 2>at chances are we got a lot of this gunk.

1418
01:10:09.640 --> 01:10:11.319
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, And one of the things we're also trying to

1419
01:10:11.359 --> 01:10:13.319
<v Speaker 5>do is look at the genome of those worms. So

1420
01:10:13.439 --> 01:10:16.159
<v Speaker 5>the idea is that like, if you can persist in

1421
01:10:16.199 --> 01:10:20.159
<v Speaker 5>such a toxic sludge pool. Then you have certain things

1422
01:10:20.159 --> 01:10:23.439
<v Speaker 5>in your genome, like maybe upregulation of certain proteins or

1423
01:10:23.720 --> 01:10:27.560
<v Speaker 5>certain metabolic pathways that basically help you to survive in

1424
01:10:27.600 --> 01:10:30.680
<v Speaker 5>that environment, and that will help inform research like in

1425
01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:34.560
<v Speaker 5>other extreme places like volcano soils or like Yellowstone hot springs.

1426
01:10:34.560 --> 01:10:35.079
<v Speaker 4>Things like that.

1427
01:10:35.119 --> 01:10:37.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, those are going to be the apocalypse worms. Yes,

1428
01:10:37.720 --> 01:10:40.960
<v Speaker 2>trend forecast. If things keep going poorly, these are going.

1429
01:10:40.880 --> 01:10:42.119
<v Speaker 4>To be really hot. Yep.

1430
01:10:42.920 --> 01:10:45.520
<v Speaker 2>What about the hardest thing about what you do? What sucks?

1431
01:10:45.600 --> 01:10:48.359
<v Speaker 2>What is something that's just hard about worms?

1432
01:10:48.520 --> 01:10:50.720
<v Speaker 4>Or life? Your life?

1433
01:10:52.640 --> 01:10:56.359
<v Speaker 5>So my answer to this is bureaucracy, because Okay, I

1434
01:10:56.439 --> 01:10:58.680
<v Speaker 5>run a lab, so I'm kind of like seeing myself

1435
01:10:58.720 --> 01:11:01.119
<v Speaker 5>as a CEO of startup company and I'll have to

1436
01:11:01.159 --> 01:11:03.159
<v Speaker 5>do like a lot of this paperwork and it really

1437
01:11:03.319 --> 01:11:05.239
<v Speaker 5>sucks the life out of me if the paperwork is

1438
01:11:05.239 --> 01:11:08.920
<v Speaker 5>not efficient, right, Like I just want to get reimbursed

1439
01:11:08.920 --> 01:11:11.159
<v Speaker 5>for this research trip to the beach, but I have

1440
01:11:11.199 --> 01:11:14.000
<v Speaker 5>to like upload receipts for like fifty cents because I

1441
01:11:14.079 --> 01:11:17.079
<v Speaker 5>bought three cokes. And I don't understand why things can't

1442
01:11:17.079 --> 01:11:19.680
<v Speaker 5>be more efficient sometimes or like forms that don't make sense,

1443
01:11:19.800 --> 01:11:21.640
<v Speaker 5>or you know when you have a PDF form and

1444
01:11:21.720 --> 01:11:24.960
<v Speaker 5>try to fill it and then like, yeah, just like

1445
01:11:25.600 --> 01:11:26.359
<v Speaker 5>it's hard.

1446
01:11:26.239 --> 01:11:29.119
<v Speaker 2>They're so expensive focus wise, and then by the time

1447
01:11:29.119 --> 01:11:30.439
<v Speaker 2>you get to the work you want to do, you're like,

1448
01:11:30.560 --> 01:11:32.279
<v Speaker 2>I spent all my focus filling out receipts.

1449
01:11:32.439 --> 01:11:33.159
<v Speaker 4>Yep, yep.

1450
01:11:33.479 --> 01:11:35.079
<v Speaker 2>What about What do you love the most? What do

1451
01:11:35.079 --> 01:11:37.520
<v Speaker 2>you love about nematodes nematology.

1452
01:11:38.439 --> 01:11:42.199
<v Speaker 5>I love the sense of looking at something that no

1453
01:11:42.359 --> 01:11:44.920
<v Speaker 5>other human on Earth has ever seen before, And that's

1454
01:11:44.960 --> 01:11:47.399
<v Speaker 5>really like what motivates me. And I can pick up

1455
01:11:47.399 --> 01:11:51.560
<v Speaker 5>nematodes from outside in my garden and still like maybe

1456
01:11:51.600 --> 01:11:53.720
<v Speaker 5>there's a new species that no one has ever laid

1457
01:11:53.760 --> 01:11:56.800
<v Speaker 5>eyes on before. So I travel to these remote places

1458
01:11:56.840 --> 01:11:59.079
<v Speaker 5>and it's really hard and expensive, and I don't go

1459
01:11:59.159 --> 01:12:02.720
<v Speaker 5>there often, but I can bring the samples back. So

1460
01:12:03.119 --> 01:12:05.880
<v Speaker 5>when I'm looking at like an Antarctic worm under the microscope,

1461
01:12:05.920 --> 01:12:08.880
<v Speaker 5>I still feel the joy of the travel to those places,

1462
01:12:09.239 --> 01:12:10.840
<v Speaker 5>even though that worm kind of looks the same as

1463
01:12:10.840 --> 01:12:13.399
<v Speaker 5>the one that I get from my garden. Sometimes just

1464
01:12:13.439 --> 01:12:16.000
<v Speaker 5>the fact that like this came from Antarctica and I

1465
01:12:16.119 --> 01:12:20.520
<v Speaker 5>went there and this is amazing, and like life is amazing,

1466
01:12:20.720 --> 01:12:22.760
<v Speaker 5>and that's just my favorite part of my job.

1467
01:12:23.199 --> 01:12:24.239
<v Speaker 2>What does the mud smell like?

1468
01:12:24.279 --> 01:12:31.039
<v Speaker 5>Smells like parts, Yeah, it smells like Yeah, that's good

1469
01:12:31.039 --> 01:12:31.279
<v Speaker 5>to know.

1470
01:12:31.680 --> 01:12:36.439
<v Speaker 2>Let's say that you're a backyard or burgeoning pneumatologist. What

1471
01:12:36.560 --> 01:12:38.520
<v Speaker 2>kind of microscope do you need to see them?

1472
01:12:39.319 --> 01:12:41.800
<v Speaker 5>You don't even need anything fancy. You can get away

1473
01:12:41.840 --> 01:12:45.720
<v Speaker 5>with a cheap stereoscope, even just magnification like ten x.

1474
01:12:46.039 --> 01:12:48.039
<v Speaker 5>If you go to your garden and you put that

1475
01:12:48.079 --> 01:12:49.880
<v Speaker 5>in the petri dish, then you'll be able to see

1476
01:12:49.880 --> 01:12:52.000
<v Speaker 5>like worms wriggling. I mean, you can't see them to

1477
01:12:52.079 --> 01:12:55.439
<v Speaker 5>the stage of what we get on our fancy microscopes

1478
01:12:55.479 --> 01:12:58.000
<v Speaker 5>that cost fifty thousand dollars, but you can see them

1479
01:12:58.000 --> 01:13:00.600
<v Speaker 5>wriggling and you be able to experience it's the joy

1480
01:13:00.640 --> 01:13:03.520
<v Speaker 5>of them thrashing around. And then iPhone cameras mounted on

1481
01:13:03.520 --> 01:13:05.119
<v Speaker 5>the microscope, you can even take some videos.

1482
01:13:05.840 --> 01:13:09.119
<v Speaker 2>You can share the world of worms. Doctor Pick just

1483
01:13:09.119 --> 01:13:13.000
<v Speaker 2>got tenure, which is a huge deal and has explored

1484
01:13:13.000 --> 01:13:18.239
<v Speaker 2>Antarctica and has a robust mud collection and well moisturized skin.

1485
01:13:18.520 --> 01:13:19.840
<v Speaker 2>What else is on her agenda?

1486
01:13:20.119 --> 01:13:23.279
<v Speaker 5>I'm doing things like experimenting with tiktoks to tell stories

1487
01:13:23.560 --> 01:13:26.319
<v Speaker 5>or just like even more thoughtful tweets and not some

1488
01:13:26.359 --> 01:13:29.279
<v Speaker 5>science writing, So just having kind of like an artistic

1489
01:13:29.399 --> 01:13:34.000
<v Speaker 5>side of my scientific career that's focused on communication and

1490
01:13:34.079 --> 01:13:37.199
<v Speaker 5>just like spreading that joy and getting everyone excited about worms.

1491
01:13:37.439 --> 01:13:39.119
<v Speaker 5>I'm feeling really excited about doing that.

1492
01:13:39.399 --> 01:13:43.159
<v Speaker 2>The sea just swimming with so many souls of tiny

1493
01:13:43.319 --> 01:13:47.760
<v Speaker 2>and giant creatures. Maybe there's water ghosts. Who knows. A

1494
01:13:47.800 --> 01:13:49.960
<v Speaker 2>beautiful thing to think of? What a party it is?

1495
01:13:50.399 --> 01:13:52.640
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, and actually I want to be buried in the

1496
01:13:52.680 --> 01:13:53.159
<v Speaker 5>deep sea.

1497
01:13:53.279 --> 01:13:53.840
<v Speaker 4>Do you really?

1498
01:13:53.840 --> 01:13:54.640
<v Speaker 2>How do you do that?

1499
01:13:55.119 --> 01:13:55.239
<v Speaker 1>Well?

1500
01:13:55.279 --> 01:13:55.800
<v Speaker 4>I don't have a.

1501
01:13:55.760 --> 01:13:59.439
<v Speaker 5>Concrete plan yet, but I definitely want my remains to

1502
01:13:59.479 --> 01:14:02.840
<v Speaker 5>be like fit back into the ecosystem. So maybe maybe

1503
01:14:02.880 --> 01:14:04.600
<v Speaker 5>like scattering of the ashes, Like I don't know if

1504
01:14:04.600 --> 01:14:06.479
<v Speaker 5>they could just like throw my body over the side

1505
01:14:06.479 --> 01:14:08.199
<v Speaker 5>of the boat, Like I'm sure there's rules on that,

1506
01:14:08.239 --> 01:14:11.039
<v Speaker 5>but definitely like scattering the ashes, and then my ashes

1507
01:14:11.079 --> 01:14:13.760
<v Speaker 5>will be marine snow and it will feed the worms and.

1508
01:14:13.840 --> 01:14:16.560
<v Speaker 2>The circle of life. Would you want it to be

1509
01:14:16.560 --> 01:14:18.239
<v Speaker 2>an Anarctic in particular.

1510
01:14:18.079 --> 01:14:21.079
<v Speaker 5>No, I'm not picky any deep sea, any deep sea,

1511
01:14:21.239 --> 01:14:23.640
<v Speaker 5>and the coast of California gets pretty deep pretty quickly,

1512
01:14:23.640 --> 01:14:26.319
<v Speaker 5>and I love California so warm food.

1513
01:14:26.840 --> 01:14:29.800
<v Speaker 2>I think that's beautiful Thank you so much for talking

1514
01:14:29.800 --> 01:14:30.000
<v Speaker 2>to me.

1515
01:14:30.279 --> 01:14:33.359
<v Speaker 5>You're welcome. This was fantastic to meet you and join

1516
01:14:33.439 --> 01:14:35.279
<v Speaker 5>you on your first ever snorkling trip.

1517
01:14:35.319 --> 01:14:36.600
<v Speaker 2>Do you think I have Nemo toads in my hair

1518
01:14:36.640 --> 01:14:38.319
<v Speaker 2>from yesterday I rinsed my hair?

1519
01:14:38.520 --> 01:14:39.199
<v Speaker 4>Oh?

1520
01:14:39.239 --> 01:14:42.880
<v Speaker 5>Probably, well, I hope again, I hope not, but maybe yay,

1521
01:14:43.039 --> 01:14:44.520
<v Speaker 5>But your hair looked amazing anyway.

1522
01:14:44.600 --> 01:14:49.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh, thank you so ask warm experts wiggly questions about

1523
01:14:49.760 --> 01:14:53.079
<v Speaker 2>cold mud, because there is no question that is too

1524
01:14:53.119 --> 01:14:55.640
<v Speaker 2>on smart. Look at how much weird info our brains

1525
01:14:55.680 --> 01:14:58.600
<v Speaker 2>now have. Thank you doctor Hollybick for being on and

1526
01:14:58.640 --> 01:15:00.760
<v Speaker 2>you can find links to her TikTok website and so

1527
01:15:00.840 --> 01:15:03.159
<v Speaker 2>much more, plus a link to Earthjustice dot org in

1528
01:15:03.199 --> 01:15:05.279
<v Speaker 2>the show notes. More links are up at aliwar dot

1529
01:15:05.319 --> 01:15:08.920
<v Speaker 2>com slash ologies slash neumatology. We also have smologies, which

1530
01:15:08.960 --> 01:15:12.159
<v Speaker 2>are kid friendly shorter versions of episodes that are classroom safe.

1531
01:15:12.199 --> 01:15:13.880
<v Speaker 2>Those are linked in the show notes or at aliwar

1532
01:15:13.920 --> 01:15:17.119
<v Speaker 2>dot com slashmologies, and a full list of full length

1533
01:15:17.159 --> 01:15:20.560
<v Speaker 2>episodes is organized by category. That's up at ologies dot

1534
01:15:20.560 --> 01:15:23.479
<v Speaker 2>com and you can stay tuned for a full month

1535
01:15:23.520 --> 01:15:27.039
<v Speaker 2>of Spooktober episodes starting next week. They're so so good

1536
01:15:27.439 --> 01:15:30.560
<v Speaker 2>and creepy and cozy. Thank you to Zeke Rodriguez Thomas

1537
01:15:30.640 --> 01:15:34.479
<v Speaker 2>You're as Sleeper, and Mercedes Maitland for editing Smologies, Aaron

1538
01:15:34.520 --> 01:15:37.720
<v Speaker 2>Talbert for admitting the Oologies podcast Facebook group, Emily White

1539
01:15:37.720 --> 01:15:40.760
<v Speaker 2>of the Wordery for making our professional transcripts. Noel Dilworth

1540
01:15:40.840 --> 01:15:43.880
<v Speaker 2>is our scheduling producer. Susan Hale is our managing director,

1541
01:15:44.119 --> 01:15:47.520
<v Speaker 2>also handles merch. Kelly Ardwire handles our website and she

1542
01:15:47.720 --> 01:15:51.039
<v Speaker 2>can design yours. And someone who should not eat worms

1543
01:15:51.079 --> 01:15:54.479
<v Speaker 2>because she is well liked is lead editor Mercedes Maitland

1544
01:15:54.560 --> 01:15:57.720
<v Speaker 2>of Maitland Audio, who assembles a show. Nick Thorburn made

1545
01:15:57.720 --> 01:15:59.560
<v Speaker 2>the theme music And if you stick around till the

1546
01:15:59.600 --> 01:16:01.079
<v Speaker 2>end of the show, I tell you a secret. And

1547
01:16:01.119 --> 01:16:04.239
<v Speaker 2>maybe you're like, why hasn't the handsome man shared Sleeper

1548
01:16:04.279 --> 01:16:06.439
<v Speaker 2>been editing for a bit? And the answer is is

1549
01:16:06.439 --> 01:16:08.960
<v Speaker 2>that I adore him so much and he will always

1550
01:16:08.960 --> 01:16:12.279
<v Speaker 2>be your pod mom. But I lovingly released him from

1551
01:16:12.279 --> 01:16:15.479
<v Speaker 2>his husbandly podcast duties so he could pursue what he

1552
01:16:15.520 --> 01:16:18.800
<v Speaker 2>really loves, which is writing and acting, and boom, within

1553
01:16:19.039 --> 01:16:21.600
<v Speaker 2>two weeks he got two parts in movies which are

1554
01:16:21.640 --> 01:16:24.199
<v Speaker 2>beginning to shoot soon, especially now that it looks like

1555
01:16:24.239 --> 01:16:26.600
<v Speaker 2>the strikes are coming to an end, so I'm very

1556
01:16:26.640 --> 01:16:29.640
<v Speaker 2>excited for him. And also it's nice to not have

1557
01:16:29.720 --> 01:16:31.760
<v Speaker 2>to talk to your spouse about work all the time

1558
01:16:31.800 --> 01:16:35.279
<v Speaker 2>and you can just sit around goofing and doing thousand

1559
01:16:35.279 --> 01:16:38.319
<v Speaker 2>piece puzzles on a Sunday. I'm loving this. I think

1560
01:16:38.319 --> 01:16:41.399
<v Speaker 2>he is also, so thank you again everyone, just for

1561
01:16:41.439 --> 01:16:44.039
<v Speaker 2>the patients. As I was out for August, retraining in

1562
01:16:44.079 --> 01:16:47.640
<v Speaker 2>my brain to not fear things like shaking Petrie dishes

1563
01:16:47.880 --> 01:16:51.159
<v Speaker 2>or mysterious odors, and I can say I think I'm

1564
01:16:51.399 --> 01:16:54.279
<v Speaker 2>the happiest worm I've ever been. And it's just only

1565
01:16:54.279 --> 01:16:56.920
<v Speaker 2>making these episodes more fun to make. It's just a

1566
01:16:56.960 --> 01:16:59.800
<v Speaker 2>delight to be back. All right, that's enough sincerity out

1567
01:16:59.800 --> 01:17:02.800
<v Speaker 2>of your dad for one day, or is it? Is

1568
01:17:02.840 --> 01:17:03.760
<v Speaker 2>it okay?

1569
01:17:03.760 --> 01:17:04.159
<v Speaker 4>I Love you?

1570
01:17:04.239 --> 01:17:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Byevie Spooktober. Let's get it on you creeps. Pacodermatology, homeiology,

1571
01:17:09.079 --> 01:17:20.159
<v Speaker 2>ydo zoology, lithology, new technology, meteorology, paratology, nthology, seriology, selenology.

1572
01:17:26.359 --> 01:17:28.479
<v Speaker 4>A worm at the bottom of the motion