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Speaker 1: Don't don't don't bo bo bo bo bo boom boom boom.

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Speaker 2: Good morning everybody, and welcome to this week's episode of

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The Paranormal Spectrum here on the Untold Radio Network. I'm

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your host, Barnaby Jones from Cryptids, Anomalies and the Paranormal Society.

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Today's episode is pre recorded. We're only a day off,

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so we're only pre recorded a little bit early. But

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just so you know, if you guys are leaving questions

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or comments throughout the show and we're ignoring them, we're

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not live today. So with that being said, guys, this

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weekend coming up on for Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, it

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is finally here the Contact Modalities Expo May first through

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the third in Delavan, Wisconsin. Myself and fellow onto Old

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radio host here Dean Bertram will be in attendance as

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well as my guest today and a lot of other

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great personalities and former guests of the show there as well.

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So if you're looking for something to do this weekend,

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come on down to Delavan, Wisconsin and check it out.

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Tickets available at Contact modalitiesxpo dot com. And next weekend, guys,

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it is finally here as well. The Cryptids, Anomalies and

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Paranormal Convention Saturday, May ninth in Fondilac, Wisconsin. We have

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over twenty speakers and workshops for you guys, including my

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guest today as well, will be part of a panel.

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We'll talk more about that in just second. And we

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also have over forty vendors for you guys to shop

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and peruse, so it's going to be a great day.

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It kicks off Friday afternoon with a kid's Bigfoot hike

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myself and Chris McCree from the Caps team. Laurence Smith

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will be this expedition. Kelly unfortunately can no longer make

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it to the convention, but you still get the three

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of us, so it's going to be a great time.

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Tickets are still available as of recording this for that

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event and for the more adventurous and brave. We also

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have a nighttime Bigfoot expedition. Myself, Chris and Lauren will

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be joined by Jay Bachocin, Ken Gerhard, Larry Eisler, and

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Christina Bloom, so it's going to be a great night.

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We are going to do some thermal imaging over a

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special area as well as Christina Bloom, who is a

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spirit medium is going to be attempting to channel a

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Bigfoot spirit.

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Speaker 3: So this is going to be a really cool event.

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Speaker 2: Hopefully you guys can come out. We still have a

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few tickets left for that as well. And then guys

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coming up Saturday, June thirteenth, we had two Paranormal Chicago

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Convention in Countryside, Illinois. It is only one dollar admission

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and free parking. You cannot beat that in the Chicago

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Land area. Then I'm going to be June seventeenth at

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the Brownsville Public Line Library, July twenty second, Cedarberg Public Library, Potographs,

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Packerland Paranormal Conference September twenty sixth, in Green Bay, Wisconsin,

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Ryo Community Library, October twenty eighth, and of course finally

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Belleville Public Library October thirtieth, talking about same topic.

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Speaker 3: As today UFOs.

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Speaker 2: So it's gonna be a great summer and October and

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stuff coming up here. So with that being said, let's

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get to our guest. My guest today is Ian Stephen.

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He is a Madison based film maker, licensed drome pilot,

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and the cure creator of the YouTube channel Alien Wisconsin.

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His work moves beyond the pursuit of grainy photographs to

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explore the human element of the phenomenon, specifically how ordinary

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lives are fundamentally reshaped by unidentified aerial phenomenon and non

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human intelligence. As a researcher and content creator, Ian focuses

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on grounded storytelling, seeking to provide a bridge between the

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high level legislative shifts in Washington, d C. And the

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deeply personal experiences of the Midwest. Ladies and gentlemen. Please

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welcome Ian steven Ian, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for having me. It's wonderful to be back.

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Speaker 2: Awesome, awesome, man, it's a pleasure to have you. You

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got some big events. We have some big events coming

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up here. I'm super excited for Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean, Contact Modalities is just a few days away.

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I'm very excited. I have so many friends on stage.

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I'm going to have to choose which ones to watch

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because a lot of them are simultaneous, which is an

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unfortunate situation. But it's good for the audience because you

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have all of these wonderful choices. I mean, Wisconsin's really

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coming up in options for people to kind of interact

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with the paranormal and meet their communities and find someone

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even if your thing is a little niche, there is

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something there for you, So that's very exciting, awesome.

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Speaker 2: So there anybody you're specifically looking forward to hearing or

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talking to again? Oh gosh, I mean there's I usually

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read them all off, but there's so many, so many

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people on this list, and there's just so many cool peoples.

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Speaker 4: So I mean, I obviously I've said this before, but

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I'm very interested in the people that were in the

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telepathy tapes. So that's one of my personal ones I'm

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really interested in seeing is Dahalia and Ludu. I'm going

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to say their last name wrong, Burgoyne. I definitely, you know,

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I do want to see Chris Bloodsoe. He's the headliner,

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of course, but of course I want to see Zi,

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Dean and Zach as well because they're my friends and

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you know, you got us your friends. But I mean,

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how can you go wrong with this lineup? You know?

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And and the other thing too that like an event

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like this, you might go in thinking, Okay, I'm really

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into Bigfoot, so I'm only going to go to the

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Bigfoot things. And for those people, I would say, I

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think that's a mild mistake. You should do something that

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you haven't tried before, because you just might learn something

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and you just might love it. The quality of speakers

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are going to be fantastic. I know, I'm going to

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try to get myself out of my own comfort zone

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and watch some of these speakers that might be a

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little bit different to me too.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's so many great people on there. Like

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you said, and you get I thought I was zoomed

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out all the way.

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Speaker 4: You can't.

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Speaker 2: You can't really pick and choose who you want to

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see it. I think I think that's a really good point.

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When you get these really cool events with so many people,

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you go there to see one particular person. I'm really

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excited to go see this one. And once you're there

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you get to meet that person.

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Speaker 3: Then what do you do? You have all day to

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go and learn something new.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you don't know anything about a topic, maybe you're

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skeptical about a topic or something.

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Speaker 3: You can go there.

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Speaker 2: You already paid your admission. You get to sit in

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and hear stories and hear people's experiences that you would

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not hear anywhere else. These are awesome events.

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Speaker 4: And one other thing that often gets lost to people

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is I mean, some of us are introverts. But I

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would remind you the people around you are just like you,

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and they could be valuable allies and people that you know,

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you could be on a podcast with, or you could

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collaborate with, or you could go on a big foot

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walk with, or you could you know, do a CE

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five event with. So keep in mind that even if

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they're not on stage, they're probably really wonderful at exciting

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people who have incredible stories just like you do.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and then after this weekend we get to hang

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out again because you are going to be part of

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the UFO CE five UAP panel here at Yes. Absolutely,

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Oh man, I'm excited for this. I think I've I've

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tried to get together a group of people that kind

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of bridge everything from like I said, C five to

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local legends and lore of UFOs in Wisconsin to UFOs

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in general historical sightings. So I think I think we

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got a great group of people in yourself is included

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in that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean the other thing that I don't know

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if you know this, but most of us are all

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friends alreadyway, so like we're like, I think that's going

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to be helpful because it'll just there won't be that

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awkwardness of like I don't know about this guy, you know, Like,

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I don't think that's going to happen. I think it's

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going to be a really fun event for the people

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on the stage, but most importantly for the audience. I

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think they're really going to appreciate it because the conversations

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will flow more naturally and it should be interesting. And

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I will tell you something, we don't all agree on

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everything I know, shocker right, we just don't, So that

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should be interesting too.

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Speaker 2: That's that's the best part again, getting multiple areas, multiple

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disciplines all talking about the same thing. And we're going

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to have an open mic as well for the audience

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that if they want to come up and ask a

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specific question. Hey, I heard there was a sighting in

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this area. Hey I heard you know, historical event of this.

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What are your thoughts on that? Hey, disclosure, all the

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stuff going on in the government, all the stuff we're

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gonna talk about today, what are your thoughts on this?

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And then you get to hear all these people firsthand

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from the different different areas of research or what have you,

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and stuff that that you guys get to kind of

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weigh in on these things.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, no, I'm I mean I'm very much looking

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forward to it. I'm very excited about it.

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Speaker 2: Awesome, I'm looking forward to uh seeing you for the

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next two weekends. I think a lot of there's there's

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quite a few of us that are crossed over here

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that we're gonna be at both events, and so it's

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gonna be quite of a we're gonna get sick of

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each other.

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Speaker 3: Maybe, well, I mean, I.

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Speaker 4: Think I think i'd pause and say something about all

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of this too, is that, like I you know, maybe

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it's a little corny to say this, but you will

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make friends by going to events like this, And maybe

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that again sounds corny and cheesy, but you will see

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a bunch of the same people and you probably will

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get along because you have a lot in common already.

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So that's the wonderful takeaways of all this stuff.

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Speaker 2: Before we before we leave this topic, I don't have

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any graphics or nothing. Do you have any other events

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coming up? Are you gonna be anywhere else that you

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want to promote?

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Speaker 3: Right away?

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Speaker 4: Not right now? Well, I mean, I have a feeling

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I'm gonna be at some events in the fall, but

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I haven't I haven't confirmed anything. I mean, I obviously

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go to the move on stuff, but nothing nothing biggest

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is on the is on the calendar quite yet.

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Speaker 2: Perfect, No problem man, All right, well, we are here

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to talk about all kinds of things that are like

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going on recently in the news, and all kinds of

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disclosure stuff. I would ask if anybody has me questions,

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but I think this is a good time to remind

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everyone we are pre recorded. So today's episode we are

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both currently if you're watching this live, we're probably both

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on our way to Delivan right now. So that's why

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we are pre recorded, because we have things to do

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this weekend, so we hope to see you in person,

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so that's why we're not here in person.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, we are.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, I will say this for for the disclosure of

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this show, that we're going to be talking about some

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touchy subjects here, and I want to give some people

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a chance to tune out or turn off for any

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kind of trigger warnings and stuff about self harm and

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things along that nature that go along with this whole

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conspiracy and this whole kind of movement that's going on

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in that And so there's there's been a lot of

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stuff going on.

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Speaker 3: In the news about.

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Speaker 2: A group of people that may or may not be

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all connected and I'll let you. I'll let you kind

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of take it from there and you know, go where

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you want with this.

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Speaker 4: Sure, there's been a news story that basically started I

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want to say in early March. I think it was

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I want to say, like the Guardian, and the headline

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that you might see is X number of scientists missing

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and dead and now it's I believe the number that's

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most commonly quoted is thirteen. But there's a lot of

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disagreement about this. So this news story kind of came

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from obscurity because there are some recent deaths and then

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there have been deaths up to from the middle of

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twenty twenty two, so a few years back, so we're

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really talking about kind of the span of four years

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where and to be clear, I want to be really

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clear about this, they are not actually all scientists. Some

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of them worked in the military with scientists, but they

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are not scientists or their administrative assistance or their science

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adjacent They all seem to work on advanced technologies, often

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to do with propulsion energy, nuclear or UFOs directly or indirectly.

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So that's kind of the lore of this is. To

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be clear, this is the other confusing part about it,

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about half of them are simply missing. They have been

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missing for an extended period of time, mind you, over

243
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six months in many cases. But they're just missing. So

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we don't have a we don't have a body, we

245
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don't know where they really are. It's kind of peculiar

246
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in this day and age that anyone could be missing

247
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for six months and still be breathing. Possible, but unlikely.

248
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So that's kind of the nature of the way it looks.

249
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And this story, again, it came from kind of like

250
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Twitter and the tabloids to all the way up till

251
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last week where Donald Trump took a question about it

252
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directly and said that he had. Interestingly, he was asked

253
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this question, you know, are you aware of these missing scientists?

254
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And he said, oh, it might be a coincidence. It's

255
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interesting you ask me this because I was just briefed

256
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on it. So Donald Trump, then, you know, basically says

257
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the White House is briefing him on this matter. So

258
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at least at that level it's being taken seriously. At least,

259
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you know, at least the President brought it up. I mean,

260
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if you think about it, most things in the news

261
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don't get to the President's desk. They just don't. I mean,

262
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most killings don't, most disappearances don't. So the fact that

263
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it got that far is kind of remarkable, and that's

264
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,919
the easiest way to explain it. But as we go

265
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into it deeper, it is very complicated and hard to

266
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really know what happened. So I would say that, like,

267
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I'm not very confident about a lot of the conclusions

268
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people are drawing, and that's that would be, like, my my,

269
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the easiest way to explain what's going on.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think I think you're right. I think there's

271
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there's some of these that are very conspicuous. Like I

272
00:15:56,919 --> 00:16:01,519
think this all kind of started with the William McCasland.

273
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I think that was the most recent, Yeah, started it.

274
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Speaker 4: It was the it was the high profile that he

275
00:16:09,559 --> 00:16:13,600
he is, that's General William McCaslin. Just to be clear,

276
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like we have to be you know, it's hard. I

277
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think he was a brigadier general too. He was like

278
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a really high ranking person here, and he was the

279
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,240
one that kind of like put it on the front

280
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page because he he essentially, I mean, I can't confirm this.

281
00:16:30,679 --> 00:16:33,919
I can't confirm this, but it seems like he was

282
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a UFO gatekeeper, He worked directly with some of the

283
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:42,480
legacy UFO program. By anyone who would know seems to

284
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think that's the case. He worked at the right place,

285
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he had the right job title. So what happens with

286
00:16:47,919 --> 00:16:55,480
him is he basically just disappears. He leaves his cell phone,

287
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he leaves his glasses, he takes a gun, he changes

288
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his clothes. I don't know why you would do that,

289
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,119
but you know, he takes a gun, doesn't take his car,

290
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leaves his phone, leaves his glasses, and just leaves. He

291
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,920
wanders off, and his wife is confused and calls nine

292
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to one one. So it's like it's a very strange story.

293
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,400
Nobody has ever been found, which is I mean, he's

294
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I think he's in his late sixties, so I can't

295
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,720
imagine he's, you know, running fifty miles on foot or something.

296
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,400
You know, he's not calling an uber. He left his phone,

297
00:17:30,599 --> 00:17:33,079
he left his wallet, he's not paying for anything. So

298
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the whole situation is extremely bizarre. Why this would happen.

299
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I mean, this man should be protected in some way

300
00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,799
because of just his rank, and it's the whole situation

301
00:17:46,079 --> 00:17:49,680
is has a lot of red flags but no way

302
00:17:49,759 --> 00:17:53,759
to draw a conclusion. It is alarming, it is concerning,

303
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,440
and I can't say anything for certain, and I'm sorry

304
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,960
to tell you that, but that's that's just what it is.

305
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:01,799
It makes me uncomfortable to read the details, but I

306
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:03,039
can't tell you what happened.

307
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,799
Speaker 2: And it was again, correct me if I'm wrong, but

308
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,279
it was a couple like a month or a little

309
00:18:09,319 --> 00:18:13,599
bit more than that before that his secretary was off

310
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on a hike and disappeared.

311
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I believe. I know it's a secretary and I'm

312
00:18:18,839 --> 00:18:20,759
not sure if it's If it's his secretary, I have

313
00:18:20,839 --> 00:18:21,160
to check.

314
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,920
Speaker 3: I heard she was like secretary to something with him,

315
00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:25,319
like that was the connection.

316
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Speaker 4: That that might be the case. Yes, that that that okay,

317
00:18:29,279 --> 00:18:32,000
So again this is a second missing person. These are

318
00:18:32,039 --> 00:18:34,599
both in the Albuquerque, New Mexico area, which you know

319
00:18:35,319 --> 00:18:39,880
New Mexico is considered I don't know the destination of

320
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,720
all things UFO. It's kind of like a weird reality,

321
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:48,200
but largely because of a lost almost national labs are there.

322
00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,880
But anyway, what I was, what I was going to

323
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,079
say is she's hiking and she's walking with a friend,

324
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and the friend sees her and thirty second late thirty

325
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,400
seconds later, it turns around to say something to her friend,

326
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:07,279
and her friend is gone, and they search with dogs

327
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,000
and they can't get a They can't find her with

328
00:19:10,079 --> 00:19:14,400
infrared because it's Albuquerque and it's summer. So the police

329
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,279
officer said that it looked like a candle everywhere because

330
00:19:17,279 --> 00:19:19,240
all of the rocks are just as hot or hotter

331
00:19:19,319 --> 00:19:21,559
than human body would be. So if Red is basically

332
00:19:21,599 --> 00:19:26,200
a useless technology in the summer in Albuquerque. So again,

333
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,319
it's been that was summer of last year, so it's

334
00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,400
been almost a year. We have no body, we have

335
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,119
no understanding of her disappearance. Like, again, how can someone disappear?

336
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:39,319
I don't know how that would work. You need money,

337
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,319
You're gonna have to use your bank account or something,

338
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,480
you know, And also like it's just hard to again,

339
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,799
these these people are like often I think she was

340
00:19:46,839 --> 00:19:49,079
in like her sixties too. You're how far can you

341
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,160
really get on foot without spending money when you're in

342
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a park? You know, Like it's just like a strange.

343
00:19:55,559 --> 00:19:58,720
It feels like it feels like either she fell or

344
00:19:59,279 --> 00:20:02,200
she was kidnapped, Like those are the only explanations you

345
00:20:02,279 --> 00:20:05,680
can that I think are reasonable. I mean, unless you

346
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,759
think she was teleported away or something like that, and

347
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,359
it'd be one of the questions that keeps getting brought

348
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,880
up about these issues in general, is was it possibly

349
00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:22,000
a foreign government, because obviously these people have very high

350
00:20:22,079 --> 00:20:26,119
level knowledge that is valuable, Like what is more valuable

351
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:32,079
on Earth than a craft or knowledge from non humans?

352
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:34,759
Like what is more valuable, Like how much is a

353
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,559
UFO worth a recovered UFO or the secrets of a

354
00:20:37,599 --> 00:20:43,160
recovered UFO. I think that it's essentially worth infinite you know,

355
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,480
Like it's hard to know like what a price tag

356
00:20:45,559 --> 00:20:48,119
for that would even cost, you know, especially if you've

357
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got something actionable out of it, you know, maybe energy technology,

358
00:20:52,559 --> 00:20:58,240
weapons technology, or even just you know, computational technology. So

359
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,200
it's really hard to know like what extent someone would

360
00:21:02,279 --> 00:21:06,119
go to obtain secrets. And I think that if it's

361
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,640
that valuable, you know, nothing is really off the table.

362
00:21:09,279 --> 00:21:11,519
But it does raise the question that, as you brought up,

363
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,160
she's just a secretary, Like I don't think she would

364
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,960
really have access to the high level secrets, so her

365
00:21:18,039 --> 00:21:22,440
disappearance doesn't really make a lot of sense to me

366
00:21:22,559 --> 00:21:27,000
unless he knew something accidentally, like it's the whole thing

367
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,319
is just so strange, you know, the whole story is

368
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:29,920
so strange.

369
00:21:31,599 --> 00:21:33,680
Speaker 2: I have a couple of graphs here I was gonna

370
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,079
show you. So the first one here because you brought

371
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,720
it up, This is a showing you kind of can't

372
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,440
see them. They're all kind of layered, but it shows you,

373
00:21:41,599 --> 00:21:44,240
like the general area where some of them went missing,

374
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,160
so they're not all one area. They're kind of spread

375
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,079
out across and not just missing. Like we said, there's

376
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,599
other situations with this as well, but this was to

377
00:21:53,839 --> 00:21:57,000
kind of infograph shows everyone that you know where they

378
00:21:57,039 --> 00:22:00,799
were because they weren't all around Roswell or in those areas.

379
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,920
But and then the other one that I found online

380
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,200
that I've kind of pulled up, there was this one

381
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,000
that kind of shows like the connections between them all.

382
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,680
And again there's some that are like you know, like

383
00:22:11,799 --> 00:22:13,359
down here, that are kind of off on their own.

384
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,839
They were involved in certain research projects or you know,

385
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:23,440
like you said, nuclear fusion, nuclear fusion research, pharmaceutical research,

386
00:22:23,599 --> 00:22:27,319
and anti gravity research that don't necessarily have any connection

387
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,319
to the other ones. But then you have like the

388
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,359
right Patterson Air Force Base was funding research for them,

389
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:37,960
here's Kirkland Air Force Base building nuclear weapons and you

390
00:22:38,039 --> 00:22:44,519
know NASA Research Scientists administrative assistant. See there you go,

391
00:22:45,319 --> 00:22:48,759
uh former employee of Lost Lost Oh my gosh.

392
00:22:52,759 --> 00:22:54,680
Speaker 4: It was one of the most one of the most

393
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,440
important places in US history. Yeah you know.

394
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 3: Oh well, and then again NASA over here as well.

395
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,039
Speaker 4: So you know this.

396
00:23:04,279 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 2: And I mean Carl, I remember his story because he

397
00:23:08,319 --> 00:23:09,960
was a wild ago and I remember him being in

398
00:23:10,039 --> 00:23:10,400
the news.

399
00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:15,799
Speaker 4: That's a it's a really tragic story. It's a it's

400
00:23:15,839 --> 00:23:17,880
a really tragic story, and a really strange story too.

401
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:23,079
I mean, Carl is Carl's killed in his home, which

402
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,920
is unusual. He's he's murdered at his home and he's

403
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,559
at first. Okay, so let's let's back up. Carl's an

404
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:37,160
extremely important scientist that does infrared work in telescopes, which

405
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,599
turns out to be extremely important when it comes to

406
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:45,839
astronomy and detecting far off bodies and perhaps perhaps spaceships

407
00:23:45,839 --> 00:23:48,880
I don't know, but more likely just you know, really

408
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:53,480
high end astronomy knowledge. I believe it was claimed that

409
00:23:53,799 --> 00:23:56,759
he may have discovered a planet with like a like

410
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,279
a planet that would sustain life. I think there was

411
00:23:59,319 --> 00:23:59,920
like something like.

412
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 3: That I read, but he read with water on it. Possibly,

413
00:24:04,279 --> 00:24:04,920
Well that's what it was.

414
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 4: That's what it was. Yeah, So I sustain life with

415
00:24:08,039 --> 00:24:13,039
water on it. And so he lives in the middle

416
00:24:13,079 --> 00:24:17,079
of nowhere on on you know, something like one hundred acres,

417
00:24:17,799 --> 00:24:20,880
and he notices from his porch that there's this guy

418
00:24:21,039 --> 00:24:23,519
with a rifle just like walking up and down on

419
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,920
his land that now he has no neighbors, so like,

420
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:31,400
there's this disgruntled person. So he calls the police, and

421
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,319
the police pick him up and they're like, what are

422
00:24:34,319 --> 00:24:36,680
you doing? And he's like, oh, I was lost and

423
00:24:36,759 --> 00:24:39,640
I needed this for my own protection from wild animals

424
00:24:39,759 --> 00:24:42,440
or something. So the police, like I think, they book

425
00:24:42,519 --> 00:24:45,720
him for some reason. But he gets out, and I

426
00:24:45,799 --> 00:24:47,640
think something like two weeks later he goes back and

427
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,640
he kills Carl. It's horrible. It's a horrible story. And

428
00:24:53,839 --> 00:24:59,160
I don't know. I I overall feel like about all

429
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,480
of these is the I don't believe they're all connected.

430
00:25:02,079 --> 00:25:04,759
I really don't, but I do believe that some of

431
00:25:04,839 --> 00:25:08,000
them likely are connected. This is kind of like a

432
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,559
puzzle where you're given too many pieces, is how it

433
00:25:10,599 --> 00:25:12,720
feels to me. It's like, oh, you don't actually need

434
00:25:12,759 --> 00:25:15,000
all these pieces. Some of these pieces are to kind

435
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,559
of throw you off the trail, you know. And I

436
00:25:17,599 --> 00:25:21,200
think it also sounds more salacious if you're like a tabloid,

437
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,640
Like thirteen missing scientists is a lot scarier than five

438
00:25:25,759 --> 00:25:30,119
missing scientists, right, Thirteen is way scarier. But maybe the

439
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,559
fib are connected and the other eight or not, you know, like,

440
00:25:33,839 --> 00:25:36,720
and that's kind of like how some of this feels

441
00:25:36,799 --> 00:25:38,240
to me, is that like some of these are being

442
00:25:38,559 --> 00:25:41,519
looped in in a way that I'm like, I don't know,

443
00:25:41,799 --> 00:25:44,640
I don't really see the key bono, as my friend

444
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,640
would say, like who benefits from the secretary dying? Like,

445
00:25:47,839 --> 00:25:51,680
I don't think China benefits. I don't think non human

446
00:25:51,759 --> 00:25:55,599
intelligence benefits. Like I just I don't see why unless

447
00:25:55,599 --> 00:25:57,720
it was an accident. I just I just think that's

448
00:25:57,799 --> 00:26:00,680
might just be coincidence. For example, I mean, some of

449
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,279
these are really weird. There's the one, the man that

450
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,920
dies from the Tesla. I don't know if you remember

451
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,920
this one. He's been in the news recently. I got

452
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:15,480
to find out where his name is. He was working

453
00:26:15,599 --> 00:26:19,079
at NASA, and I want to say his name was.

454
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:21,559
I don't know if he's on your chart. He's one

455
00:26:21,559 --> 00:26:22,359
of the newer cases.

456
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, there seems to be more being added to this.

457
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,960
The last I heard was fifteen, so you had mentioned thirteen.

458
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 4: So yeah, well and they're not all the arts, Yeah, yeah, well,

459
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,240
I mean some of these are really really suspicious. They

460
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,599
just I mean, and the thing is is like, if

461
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,119
someone is murdered suspiciously, it doesn't mean that they're connected

462
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:50,960
to these other things, you know, like it could still

463
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:56,880
just it could be an unrelated crime. I think it's

464
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,000
difficult because we as a community. Like, honestly, this whole

465
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,759
issue has been very painful to me too. Like I'm

466
00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:05,279
not trying to be dismissive. I'm not as like a

467
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,359
coping mechanism. I think it's very awful that people are

468
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,119
being murdered and disappearing, and it's and you know, long

469
00:27:12,559 --> 00:27:15,519
has been this idea that people who try to spill

470
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,960
secrets about UFOs do get killed. I mean, David Grush

471
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,000
literally brought this up at the hearing in front of Congress,

472
00:27:23,759 --> 00:27:27,759
but he wouldn't name names because you know, there's there's

473
00:27:27,839 --> 00:27:32,079
legal ramifications, but he I mean, I I do believe

474
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,440
that that our government and other governments would kill to

475
00:27:35,519 --> 00:27:37,960
keep secrets. Do I believe one hundred percent? Do I

476
00:27:38,039 --> 00:27:41,960
believe that would they would they fake things or say

477
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,319
that someone's self harmed instead of telling the truth that

478
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,440
they just you know, threw them off a bridge. Of

479
00:27:47,599 --> 00:27:51,640
course they would. Of course they would, because in their calculation,

480
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,519
they are helping more more of people in their country

481
00:27:54,559 --> 00:27:57,920
than they're hurting. It's the classic needs of the many

482
00:27:57,960 --> 00:27:59,799
and the needs of the few. They think they're doing

483
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,359
the right thing. I don't, but they do.

484
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 3: Agree.

485
00:28:04,839 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, I mean, it's a very difficult case.

486
00:28:07,799 --> 00:28:09,839
And the only thing I would say to if anyone

487
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,680
in the audience is really excited or curious, is just

488
00:28:12,839 --> 00:28:15,599
remember that the family members are still grieving in many

489
00:28:15,599 --> 00:28:18,680
of these cases, and they don't know anything. Even if

490
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,720
their husband or wife or partner was involved in a

491
00:28:21,839 --> 00:28:25,119
UFO program, they're not going to tell them. And the

492
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:26,839
reason they're not going to tell them is they don't

493
00:28:26,839 --> 00:28:29,680
want that husband, wife or family member to get hurt.

494
00:28:30,319 --> 00:28:33,160
And that's why you don't tell people things, is just

495
00:28:33,319 --> 00:28:35,960
exactly so those things don't happen to those people you love.

496
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely.

497
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:40,759
Speaker 2: I think there's, like you said, there's a lot of

498
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,279
lines being drawn and some of them may connect in

499
00:28:43,359 --> 00:28:46,359
that and I don't know. I think that a lot

500
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,119
of this is trying to connect things that aren't really there.

501
00:28:50,519 --> 00:28:55,640
But even still, it does point point a finger at

502
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,039
the larger picture. You know, like you said, that this

503
00:28:58,119 --> 00:29:02,160
stuff is happening. Whether they're connect or not, it's possible

504
00:29:02,279 --> 00:29:05,079
that they are, you know, being silenced and stuff. You know,

505
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,200
Like like you had mentioned, Grush was very adamant that

506
00:29:08,519 --> 00:29:11,160
he felt that his life could be in danger by

507
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,480
coming forward, and he knew of other people he couldn't

508
00:29:14,519 --> 00:29:16,759
talk about because I think in the hearing he specifically

509
00:29:16,839 --> 00:29:20,200
says that he took it to the proper authorities and

510
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,359
there is an investigation and he didn't want to talk

511
00:29:22,359 --> 00:29:25,480
about it because it would threaten things of the investigation

512
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,119
and it wasn't allowed to be spoken about, which I

513
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:29,839
mean that tells you a lot right there, that you know,

514
00:29:30,039 --> 00:29:33,440
they know that this stuff is happening, and you know

515
00:29:33,559 --> 00:29:36,519
they're they're I don't know, supposedly looking into it.

516
00:29:36,799 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 4: But it's just I mean, the truth of the matter

517
00:29:40,519 --> 00:29:46,880
is we all we all have our cognitive biases. I

518
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,640
am very biased against the intelligence community. I'll just be

519
00:29:49,759 --> 00:29:53,799
honest with you. I am very critical of them, But

520
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,480
there are not proper oversight. There's not proper congressional oversight

521
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,160
over the intelligence communities America. That is the most polite,

522
00:30:02,319 --> 00:30:04,680
kind and concise way that I can say it, and

523
00:30:04,759 --> 00:30:09,039
it is unequivocally true. And they do things like say, well,

524
00:30:09,079 --> 00:30:10,799
you don't need to know that, or you don't need

525
00:30:10,839 --> 00:30:12,400
to see my budget, or you don't need to know

526
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,960
what really happened. And it's the classic who watches the

527
00:30:16,039 --> 00:30:20,599
watchers problem? You know, like and when you can say,

528
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,359
well that's a secret, you don't get to know that,

529
00:30:22,519 --> 00:30:24,759
then how does anyone check if you're there's no check

530
00:30:24,839 --> 00:30:29,039
in balance with the intelligence community. And that's very scary.

531
00:30:29,079 --> 00:30:33,000
I mean Chuck Schumer has expressed fear. And when he

532
00:30:33,079 --> 00:30:35,960
did that, he was the Senate majority leader of one

533
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,079
of the two parties that governs America. And I mean

534
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,079
it's a really crazy moment. He's like, you know, they can.

535
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:43,680
I think he says something like they can get you

536
00:30:43,839 --> 00:30:46,880
twelve ways to Sunday or something like they can, like

537
00:30:47,279 --> 00:30:48,880
you don't mess with those people. They can get you

538
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,400
twelve ways to Sunday. When he's talking about the intelligence community.

539
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,079
I mean, he's right he's right, I want to be clear,

540
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,200
he's correct, but it is also strange that he's expressing fear.

541
00:30:56,519 --> 00:31:00,599
And if he's expressing fear, that means that the the

542
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:05,359
oversight role is not being done. And that's that's what

543
00:31:05,519 --> 00:31:08,079
I am most alarmed by. Is it like nobody's nobody's

544
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,119
watching these things, so you know, take that for what it.

545
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,759
Speaker 3: Is, absolutely, and it's it's so hard.

546
00:31:14,799 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 2: You know, we're told, you know, from a young age,

547
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,000
you know, trust your government, we're here to help and

548
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,799
all that stuff. But yet at the same time they

549
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,160
white lie about all so many things.

550
00:31:24,279 --> 00:31:25,799
Speaker 3: And and for good reason.

551
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 2: We'll say on some things, you know, like you know,

552
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,359
top secret military or you know, like where we're at war,

553
00:31:32,599 --> 00:31:35,440
what intelligence we have or whatever, stuff like that. But

554
00:31:35,519 --> 00:31:36,960
when they come out and they say, you know, like,

555
00:31:37,599 --> 00:31:39,839
oh that that aircraft you saw, that's not ours. We

556
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,000
don't know nothing about that, that you didn't see nothing.

557
00:31:42,039 --> 00:31:44,480
And then two weeks later, guess what, we have a

558
00:31:44,559 --> 00:31:46,559
brand new aircraft and this is what it is. And

559
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,920
we're like, but you said you didn't have that, like

560
00:31:49,079 --> 00:31:52,759
you just you just said you didn't have that. Oh, well,

561
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,599
we we were just kidding because we we didn't want

562
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,319
it out. Well, what else are you you know, what

563
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,079
else are you not telling us? You look at you know,

564
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:02,920
people always want to talk about like, well I don't

565
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,759
believe in you know, telekinesis or remote viewing or all

566
00:32:06,839 --> 00:32:09,240
of these, you know, the men who stare up storylines

567
00:32:09,279 --> 00:32:12,160
and stuff. And then do you do you realize, like

568
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,599
if you Foyer requests this stuff or just the stuff

569
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,680
that's bendy classified, they've done all this. They have, of course,

570
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,039
all this stuff, and the average person that you know

571
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,119
just kind of skims over these topics goes, oh, that

572
00:32:23,119 --> 00:32:27,680
stuff's all fake. But the government has documents saying, well

573
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,319
it's real. We just it's not actionable, you know.

574
00:32:30,759 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 4: And yeah it's not. It's not it's not reliable enough,

575
00:32:35,519 --> 00:32:39,240
which is a different I mean, like the reliability in

576
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,519
war is might be a higher threshold than like the

577
00:32:41,599 --> 00:32:44,880
reliability of usefulness or even you know what I mean,

578
00:32:45,039 --> 00:32:47,640
it's a different thing. I mean, I was having a

579
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,079
conversation the other day about someone who's just getting into

580
00:32:50,119 --> 00:32:53,640
the UFO topic, and this is going to get back

581
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,319
to write. What you were just talking about is how

582
00:32:57,319 --> 00:33:02,480
the people who enter the topic slowly gain a disdain

583
00:33:02,559 --> 00:33:06,920
and distrust for the US government because of the unimaginable

584
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:12,400
amount of lies. And I told him that there is

585
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,519
a reason there seems to be a bias overall in

586
00:33:15,599 --> 00:33:21,440
the paranormal community towards a political conservatism or small government conservatism.

587
00:33:21,519 --> 00:33:24,400
And I don't mean Republican, I just mean the philosophical

588
00:33:24,519 --> 00:33:27,680
concepts of small governance. And part of that is is

589
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,160
because there's a disdain and a distrust. How do you

590
00:33:31,279 --> 00:33:34,519
believe in a large government serving you when the governments

591
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,039
you have currently you feel its constantly lying to you.

592
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,160
It's hard to trust that. It's hard to get behind

593
00:33:42,279 --> 00:33:45,200
that idea. And he was like completely blown away with

594
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,240
this idea, and I was like, it's really not that

595
00:33:47,359 --> 00:33:49,359
hard to think that. If you think someone's always lying

596
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,400
to you, do you want to hang out with that person?

597
00:33:51,759 --> 00:33:53,039
Do you trust them? Do you want to give them

598
00:33:53,039 --> 00:33:55,720
your money? And like I pointed that out to him.

599
00:33:55,759 --> 00:33:58,720
But again, it's not a D or an R kind

600
00:33:58,759 --> 00:34:01,400
of question. It's a more of a philosophical approach to

601
00:34:02,319 --> 00:34:03,400
political philosophy.

602
00:34:04,799 --> 00:34:05,279
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

603
00:34:05,799 --> 00:34:09,639
Speaker 2: And then there's you know, to to quote certain people.

604
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,280
You know, there's there's all this fake news out there,

605
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,840
you know, because there's so much AI, and here's here's

606
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,760
you know, there's there's oh my gosh, look there's this

607
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,000
this person's lying, and here's the photographic proof. And here's

608
00:34:23,039 --> 00:34:26,960
the newspaper articles and it's all fake and you don't know,

609
00:34:27,079 --> 00:34:29,719
you know, like here's a front page New York Times,

610
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,639
you know article. Here it is, I'm holding it up.

611
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,599
I printed it on my own computer, you know, and

612
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,880
it's one hundred percent bull crap, you know, And you

613
00:34:38,079 --> 00:34:41,480
don't know anymore that the most realistic stuff can be

614
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:43,920
just a blatant lie. And then when someone comes out

615
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,239
and says, no, really trust me, well who who do

616
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,480
you trust? Because there's so much of.

617
00:34:49,519 --> 00:34:50,039
Speaker 3: This out there.

618
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, when I was preparing for this the

619
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,719
uh talking about the I knew we were gonna be

620
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:03,239
talking about the missing scientists question. And there was a

621
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,440
newspaper that I don't know if your viewersknew no this,

622
00:35:06,559 --> 00:35:09,039
but a lot of newspapers use AI to write faster,

623
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:15,719
which is perhaps not the best practice. Especially anyway, they

624
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:21,840
wrote that Michael Schallenberger had testified to Congress about one

625
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,840
of the scientists being missing. I believe it was Amy Eskridge,

626
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,199
that she had been that she had been murdered or

627
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:34,719
something that Michael Shallenberger had testified to Congress about this. Well,

628
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,840
here's the thing. Michael Shallenberger had in fact testified to

629
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,639
Congress about UFOs. That's true, and then the AI grabbed

630
00:35:42,679 --> 00:35:45,639
that truth and then this story and somehow I was

631
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,079
like good enough or just maybe it glitched or whatever

632
00:35:49,159 --> 00:35:51,599
it did, and it combined the two things that did

633
00:35:51,679 --> 00:35:55,719
not happen. Michael Shallenberger did not testify. I watched the

634
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,119
whole thing live, did not at all testify about this

635
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,000
case or Amy s Bridge in any way, shape or form.

636
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,679
He didn't make comments about on his sub stack. It

637
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,679
never happened. And so that, you know, that was printed.

638
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:12,960
And that's one of the other reasons why people might

639
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,960
might get this story wrong, and that makes it hard

640
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,000
to follow. Is now we're kind of getting this AI

641
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:22,159
slop that's thrown into the news cycle and to further,

642
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,159
you know, to further make it harder to understand and

643
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,079
already hard to understand story, you know.

644
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:31,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if you saw this or not.

645
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:33,760
It was in the news I think two weeks ago.

646
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:38,840
There was a researcher who wrote this complete fabricated research

647
00:36:39,199 --> 00:36:44,239
paper about a new disease that was researched by Starfleet

648
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,440
Academy and it was endorsed by I can't remember what

649
00:36:47,559 --> 00:36:51,440
the other not that there was some other, you know,

650
00:36:51,599 --> 00:36:53,639
like the Empire or something from Stars I can't remember

651
00:36:53,679 --> 00:36:57,920
the other Lovely Lovely and something else and all this

652
00:36:58,639 --> 00:37:01,320
crap in there, and they waited like six months to

653
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,719
a year it was, and then they google searched it

654
00:37:04,079 --> 00:37:07,559
and AI wrote it up as an actual thing that

655
00:37:08,159 --> 00:37:10,119
they put in the symptoms and it came up, yes,

656
00:37:10,199 --> 00:37:13,519
you have this disease. It was researched by Starfleet Academy

657
00:37:13,679 --> 00:37:15,840
and all this stuff, and they're like, you gotta be

658
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:17,639
kidding me. And this was just in the news, I

659
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:19,880
want to say, the last two weeks, maybe three weeks

660
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:21,880
ago now, But yeah.

661
00:37:22,519 --> 00:37:25,559
Speaker 4: It's It's funny because I absolutely love working with AI

662
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,039
and I work with it constantly, like my work is

663
00:37:28,119 --> 00:37:31,800
kind of realigning to work with AI. But it's just

664
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,159
like any new technology that if you don't understand the

665
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:40,039
consequences and then the pitfalls, you're just gonna it is

666
00:37:40,159 --> 00:37:44,599
still it's it's not a completely reliable actor. It really isn't.

667
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,800
And as much as I think the problem is it's

668
00:37:48,159 --> 00:37:49,960
the easy button. I don't know if you remember these

669
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,440
commercial staples used to have this thing called the easy button.

670
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,719
You'd hit the easy button and it would just get

671
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,079
it done for you, do the work for you. But

672
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,159
the problem with this easy button is it's like it's

673
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:05,159
like having a brilliant assistant that can, you know, do

674
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,119
the work of five people, but every once in a

675
00:38:08,199 --> 00:38:11,159
while just decides to set fire to the entire house,

676
00:38:12,039 --> 00:38:13,639
and you don't know when it's gonna happen. It's just

677
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,519
gonna happen, and suddenly you're gonna wake up and your

678
00:38:15,559 --> 00:38:18,159
house is in flames, and you're like, what's happening? You

679
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,360
hit the easy button too many times, is the problem.

680
00:38:22,599 --> 00:38:24,320
And that's kind of where we are with AI, and

681
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,880
a lot of people are grappling with that problem. I

682
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:28,559
don't have the right answer for it yet, but I

683
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:30,559
think eventually we might get to that one.

684
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

685
00:38:32,159 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 2: I want to take a moment here and remind everyone

686
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,440
that today's episode is pre recorded. Both myself and I

687
00:38:36,559 --> 00:38:39,199
and we are literally probably on our way to the

688
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:43,360
Contact Modalities Expo in Delavan, Wisconsin, so we decided to

689
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,199
pre record today. So if you have questions or comments,

690
00:38:46,519 --> 00:38:49,800
I apologize, we're not here to take them. But you

691
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,519
lead into this, and I think this is interesting as well.

692
00:38:53,599 --> 00:38:56,000
So you know, you talk about AI setting fire to

693
00:38:56,079 --> 00:38:59,280
your house, you know, and there's so many movies you

694
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:04,960
know that foreshadow this exact thing of how AI is

695
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,920
going to become more advanced and take over and destroy us.

696
00:39:08,599 --> 00:39:14,760
And speaking speaking of I'm transitioning here, but speaking of movies.

697
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:20,760
Speaker 4: Ah, yes, there you go there, you know what movie

698
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:21,679
is coming out?

699
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,639
Speaker 3: Well, there's a very important movie to our topic.

700
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, so yes, there, So perhaps the most important filmmaker.

701
00:39:33,599 --> 00:39:37,119
I'm gonna I'm gonna pause on this. I think that

702
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,079
the person who's making this film may actually be low

703
00:39:40,159 --> 00:39:43,920
key the most important person on UFO disclosure in history.

704
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,440
So that person is Steven Spielberg. And so this is

705
00:39:47,559 --> 00:39:52,079
his third movie, which might be the third blockbuster about

706
00:39:52,199 --> 00:39:57,239
humans having contact with alien life, and this is you know,

707
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,800
Disclosure Day is coming up on June twel wealth. It

708
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:07,360
looks fantastic. It's a deeper dive into the phenomena. Of course,

709
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,159
his first, his first movie, Close Encounters of the Third Kind,

710
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,760
is an immortal classic and it still holds up. It

711
00:40:15,039 --> 00:40:18,199
still is fantastic. I think it's required viewing, even though

712
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,679
it's from nineteen eighty. I recently rewatched it and was

713
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,920
surprised how good it is. Of course, Et Extraterrestrial, which

714
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:29,079
is a really cute version of things, an incredible classic too,

715
00:40:30,639 --> 00:40:34,320
and then this one. I mean, here's what happens. When

716
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,599
you inspire people to imagine these kind of things. They

717
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:42,679
open themselves up to those ideas, they have those conversations

718
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,760
with each other. A lot of the problem that we've

719
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,159
had about discussing this topic is the stigma and the

720
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,199
shame of talking about it. I have talked to so

721
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:57,480
many people in rural Wisconsin about their stigma and their

722
00:40:57,559 --> 00:41:00,960
shame of sharing, of even tell people that they saw

723
00:41:01,079 --> 00:41:05,719
a UFO. It is often extraordinarily hard to pull those

724
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,280
stories out of people and get them get anyone to

725
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,559
sit for a camera. And it's because of this shame

726
00:41:12,119 --> 00:41:14,920
and movies like Disclosure Day and Close Encounters of the

727
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:19,280
third kind they help inspire people, They open the imagination,

728
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,199
They help normalize the topic in a way that is

729
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:27,440
incredibly profound. That is no less important than the researchers

730
00:41:27,639 --> 00:41:30,039
or the legislators who are doing work on this topic

731
00:41:30,119 --> 00:41:33,360
as well. So I am extremely excited about it. I

732
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,960
have considered buying out a theater and just like inviting

733
00:41:37,039 --> 00:41:39,440
people I care about to show up, because I mean, like,

734
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:41,679
you know, that might be fun. I don't know I'm

735
00:41:41,679 --> 00:41:46,320
actually gonna do that. It's quite expensive, but I'm super

736
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,719
super interested in it. I'm super excited for the possibility

737
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,960
of it going forward. I'm not afraid of disclosure at all.

738
00:41:55,039 --> 00:41:59,639
I'm not afraid of living with non human intelligence. I'm

739
00:41:59,679 --> 00:42:02,079
ready for it now. At this point, I'm as much

740
00:42:02,119 --> 00:42:06,079
as I can be. I'm very optimistic about it. I think,

741
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,400
maybe more than than most people, and that's kind of

742
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:09,039
how I feel.

743
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,760
Speaker 2: I recently saw that Steven Spielberg spoke out I think

744
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,480
it was at a comic con, and they said that

745
00:42:16,559 --> 00:42:18,960
this was the first time he was ever at comic con.

746
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,639
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, that was That was pretty interesting.

747
00:42:22,159 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 2: And he said that there was more fact than fiction,

748
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,159
or more true than than you know, made up in

749
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:34,440
this new movie, which is very interesting because a lot

750
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,760
of these people that have worked on other television shows,

751
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,000
other movies and stuff have said that when they're working

752
00:42:41,079 --> 00:42:46,159
on certain you know, space aspects, extraterrestrials and stuff, that

753
00:42:46,679 --> 00:42:51,159
people from the government or other agencies have come to

754
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,159
them and said, we want to help you with this project.

755
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,280
And this goes too, Yeah, this goes all the way

756
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,840
back to you know, Roswell and stuff, where supposedly there

757
00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:03,400
is this survey done to see what would happen if

758
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,440
we announced disclosure today, you know, and they said, well,

759
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,559
everyone would lose their mind. And they said, well, how

760
00:43:09,599 --> 00:43:11,639
do we how do we fix that? And they said, well,

761
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,840
slow trickle disclosure, get them used to it, and make

762
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,920
it mainstream. And I think right now we're pretty much

763
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,039
at the most mainstream if you look at the stuff

764
00:43:21,079 --> 00:43:24,400
that's coming out of you know, the newspapers and television.

765
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 3: Again, we were going back to you know, fake news

766
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:27,119
and all that stuff.

767
00:43:27,159 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 2: But still all the stuff that's coming out and people

768
00:43:29,519 --> 00:43:31,800
don't even beat an eye at it. You know, Congress

769
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,199
has a hearing and they say, oh, yeah, aliens are real,

770
00:43:34,639 --> 00:43:37,599
and we have bodies and we have craft. They're in

771
00:43:37,679 --> 00:43:39,519
a warehouse, but I can't talk about unless we're in

772
00:43:39,519 --> 00:43:41,800
a skiff and the news posts and everyone's.

773
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 4: Like yeah, I know, yeah, I mean, yeah, it's interesting

774
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,800
you bring that up. I could talk to you more

775
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,840
about modeling disclosure if you want me to or not.

776
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

777
00:43:54,519 --> 00:43:58,039
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I've actually been working this is I haven't

778
00:43:58,039 --> 00:44:00,880
told any public public people about this yet, but I've

779
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:06,440
been working on AI software that models UFO disclosure different

780
00:44:06,599 --> 00:44:10,559
scenarios and how it would play out by using AI

781
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:15,679
agents to simulate hundreds of people of different backgrounds, of

782
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:20,000
different political positions, important people, less important. I mean when

783
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,000
I mean important, I mean like leaders of countries and

784
00:44:23,079 --> 00:44:27,800
things like that. And I've been modeling different disclosure outcomes

785
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,280
and trying to get that software ready for people to

786
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,280
kind of play around at home to see what would happen.

787
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,320
And I think it's really fun. It's built on some

788
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:41,119
of the latest AI technology that you can do called

789
00:44:41,159 --> 00:44:47,000
agentic swarms, and basically the AI makes lots of copies

790
00:44:47,079 --> 00:44:52,960
of itself. Those copies interact with almost like us. They

791
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,800
have like personalities. They're each given like a personality card,

792
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,119
and then they interact and then they interact again, and

793
00:44:59,159 --> 00:45:01,480
they interact again, and they interact again, and they interact again,

794
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,719
and because of their interactions, like things happen in the

795
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,639
simulation and then you're given a summary at the end

796
00:45:07,679 --> 00:45:09,880
of it, and then you can ask the like ten

797
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,400
page summary like questions about what happened with another AI agent.

798
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,079
So I've been working on that and it's it's been

799
00:45:17,119 --> 00:45:18,599
really fun. I don't know if anyone's gonna use it,

800
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:20,840
but like you know, I've been enjoying it because, like

801
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,039
you know, I've been I've been having you know, things

802
00:45:23,119 --> 00:45:26,360
like what would happen if Shi Jinping releases information about

803
00:45:26,559 --> 00:45:29,400
UFOs to try to beat Trump to the punch, or

804
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,800
what happens if Vladimir Putin does or what if it's

805
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,519
a fake one, or what if it's an Edward Snowden

806
00:45:34,599 --> 00:45:37,039
moment or you know. I've been able to model all

807
00:45:37,119 --> 00:45:39,599
of these things, and it's it's kind of interesting. It

808
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,880
doesn't end up as bad as people think long term,

809
00:45:44,599 --> 00:45:48,079
but short term it's kind of bad. So that might takeaway.

810
00:45:50,039 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 3: It all works out, but it kind of does.

811
00:45:52,599 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 4: It kind of actually like like you know, the weird

812
00:45:55,519 --> 00:45:59,760
the funny thing is that the stabilizing force, the stabilizing

813
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:03,639
force in the world, is not the US government. It's

814
00:46:04,039 --> 00:46:07,599
it's the markets and greed. That's actually what stabilizes everything.

815
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:09,119
It's like wha, what what what what?

816
00:46:09,199 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 2: What?

817
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 4: What? We can make money on this?

818
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 5: Okay, calm down, everybody, come down, come on, like and

819
00:46:13,079 --> 00:46:15,559
that's actually what ends up happening in the in the modeling,

820
00:46:15,639 --> 00:46:18,480
it's like, Oh, as soon as they like like like

821
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,920
figured that out, then like like the reality like reasserts

822
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:23,199
itself and everybody's cool again.

823
00:46:24,679 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've you've seen this commercial that's

824
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,079
out right now like airing on the National TV or whatever.

825
00:46:30,159 --> 00:46:33,519
But it's this betting agency and this guy's out playing

826
00:46:33,599 --> 00:46:37,159
golf and there he's like, oh, I can't think with

827
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:39,159
the name of the betting agents. So the commercial is

828
00:46:39,199 --> 00:46:43,360
not doing its job obviously, but have you heard of

829
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,280
this you know, betting app or whatever. And he's like, oh, yeah,

830
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,119
you can bet on anything, including UFO sightings, and they

831
00:46:49,199 --> 00:46:51,360
go is that a real thing? And then they pan

832
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,599
over and there's two like gray aliens playing golf and

833
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:55,119
they're like.

834
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 4: Oh, how have I not seen this? This is amazing?

835
00:46:58,079 --> 00:46:58,960
How have I not seen this?

836
00:46:59,159 --> 00:47:02,320
Speaker 2: This is time like my watch. And then then they're like, yeah,

837
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:04,320
but but we still haven't been to the moon. And

838
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,480
then these two astronauts go by on a golf court

839
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:06,960
and they're.

840
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,320
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, we were, and they take off and yeah it's.

841
00:47:11,519 --> 00:47:14,280
Speaker 2: There's there's a second one too, with a crashed ufo,

842
00:47:14,559 --> 00:47:17,000
but I only saw it once and I've never seen

843
00:47:17,039 --> 00:47:19,000
the rest of it. But there's a crashed ufo on

844
00:47:19,039 --> 00:47:19,639
the golf course.

845
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:21,559
Speaker 4: But I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to find this.

846
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:26,760
Speaker 2: It's uh kobe Shi or Kabashi or something is the

847
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,760
name of the it's I I'm not endorsing it obviously,

848
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,239
so I don't know. But it's something like that, but

849
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,639
it's it's a it's an online gambling betting app or something.

850
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I really do think it's in the

851
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,719
in the cultural consciousness. I mean, as silly as it sounds.

852
00:47:44,039 --> 00:47:46,719
You know, the emoticons on your phone, you know those

853
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:50,440
little little symbols that people use. We have both the

854
00:47:50,519 --> 00:47:54,239
flying Saucer emoticon and the gray alien one are baked

855
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,800
right in there. And I find that really interesting if

856
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,159
you think about it, because it's almost like, oh, this

857
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:04,239
is already literally part of your pictorial language. Like it's

858
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:08,119
already part of like And of course it doesn't necessarily

859
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:13,000
literally mean alien or extraterrestrial or interdimensional being or time traveler.

860
00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:16,239
It sometimes it conveys all these different ideas, and I

861
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,239
just find that so fascinating. Like I often respond to

862
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,039
people's texts with like a UFO. I don't respond with

863
00:48:22,079 --> 00:48:24,519
like a smiley face or something. I do that instead.

864
00:48:25,199 --> 00:48:27,360
It's like my own way of like kind of like

865
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,519
stamping it into their minds a little bit more.

866
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 2: It's it's everywhere. I mean talking about like, you know everything,

867
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,519
I mean Roku. I have a Roku TV and the

868
00:48:39,639 --> 00:48:43,400
loading screen is an UFO beaming up the Roku logo.

869
00:48:44,039 --> 00:48:44,199
Speaker 4: You know.

870
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,199
Speaker 2: It's like, why why is this all of a sudden

871
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:48,679
everywhere A couple of years, I think it was two

872
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,719
years ago now forty one Highway forty one here in

873
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:56,760
Wisconsin between Appleton and Fondelac, I think.

874
00:48:56,639 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 3: It was, there was three billboards with big Foot. Oh

875
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,159
really yeah. There was two.

876
00:49:03,159 --> 00:49:05,559
Speaker 2: Cars and an insurance company or something at the time.

877
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,079
But in just that small stretch of highway, three billboards

878
00:49:09,119 --> 00:49:11,519
with Bigfoot on them. And I mean this stuff is

879
00:49:11,639 --> 00:49:13,480
you know, not to get off the UFOs, but I

880
00:49:13,519 --> 00:49:17,079
mean UFOs, Bigfoot, all this stuff has just become so

881
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:21,320
mainstream that it is everywhere now, And you gotta wonder

882
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,599
is there a reason for that? Are we being trickle

883
00:49:24,679 --> 00:49:27,679
disclosed like we were talking about, is this supposed to

884
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:31,320
be the you know, is this what they're trying to

885
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,159
do is just put this in your head constantly so

886
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,239
that when they come out and say all this stuff

887
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,119
is real bigfoots and alien you know, and all this

888
00:49:38,199 --> 00:49:41,599
stuff and just drop it on you, you're like, yeah, okay,

889
00:49:43,159 --> 00:49:43,320
you know.

890
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,559
Speaker 4: This kind of reminds me getting back to like the

891
00:49:46,639 --> 00:49:52,960
Steven Spielberg movies. And I remember, like I was doing research.

892
00:49:53,679 --> 00:49:56,079
I haven't actually published an episode about this, but I

893
00:49:56,199 --> 00:49:59,199
was doing research on the first UFO sidings in Wisconsin

894
00:50:00,159 --> 00:50:03,760
and it's from actually Jeff, who's going to be at

895
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:08,159
your event is did a podcast about this before me,

896
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,000
and then I kind of went to the State Historical

897
00:50:10,079 --> 00:50:12,719
Society to get more original documentations like it kind of

898
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,159
like one thing I would encourage people to do if

899
00:50:16,199 --> 00:50:18,519
you actually want to do research is go to the

900
00:50:18,679 --> 00:50:21,239
source of anything, especially in the era of AI. Go

901
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,320
to the original source and watch it yourself. Don't read

902
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:27,320
a summary. Go go to the original source. I can't

903
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:31,079
stress that enough. But there was this idea in eighteen

904
00:50:31,159 --> 00:50:35,280
ninety seven of these it's called like the Phantom Airships Saga,

905
00:50:36,039 --> 00:50:38,920
and so there was these glowing airships that show up

906
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,760
around San Francisco and like eighteen ninety seven. I'm going

907
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,360
to unfortunately make the shortest version of the story because

908
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:48,440
it's quite long. And they start making their way across

909
00:50:48,519 --> 00:50:52,639
the country and they're just like these glowing flying machines,

910
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,559
and some people think that like there's men on bicycles

911
00:50:55,639 --> 00:50:58,199
on them, and some people think that they're aliens. And

912
00:50:58,599 --> 00:51:02,119
there's all these wild stories, but it captures the nation

913
00:51:03,119 --> 00:51:06,599
in a weird way. People start buying like opera glasses

914
00:51:06,639 --> 00:51:09,280
and going out every night in little telescopes and looking

915
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,840
and trying to track these these phantom airships. And they're

916
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,679
seen in like eighteen states, including Wisconsin, where it's one

917
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:21,360
of the airships supposedly docs at like the tallest building

918
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:25,280
in Milwaukee at the time, and the Milwaukee Sentinel paper

919
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:30,679
actually read people have stopped asking in the evening, how

920
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:34,079
are you doing, or saying good evening. Instead they say

921
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,760
have you seen the airship? Have you seen the airship?

922
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,039
And it really had kind of captured the consciousness in

923
00:51:42,039 --> 00:51:45,039
an unusual way, and Thomas Edison had to say that

924
00:51:45,159 --> 00:51:48,159
he didn't, you know, these aren't his inventions, Like people

925
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:52,039
kept asking if it was Edison, and so like kind

926
00:51:52,079 --> 00:51:54,519
of nothing nothing, you know, one ever found out where

927
00:51:54,559 --> 00:51:57,639
the airships came from. People believed it was a maybe

928
00:51:57,679 --> 00:52:02,000
a beetlejuice sighting of the of the celestial body. But

929
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,840
there was a takeaway from it that often gets missed

930
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:09,239
when people tell this story. Is there if you keep reading,

931
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,800
people suddenly become increasingly fascinated with the idea of flying

932
00:52:14,559 --> 00:52:19,199
and the possibility of humans flying. And in fourteen more

933
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:24,079
years what happens is the Right Brothers take flight. So

934
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:29,320
there is something about changing the consciousness, even if it's

935
00:52:29,559 --> 00:52:34,079
just simply empowering people to think, hey, that might be possible.

936
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,119
That might be an engineering problem I can solve, and

937
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:42,119
somehow like just changing the consciousness of humanity allow humans

938
00:52:42,199 --> 00:52:44,880
to fly. And I think that the phantom airship is

939
00:52:45,039 --> 00:52:47,599
really part of that great experience and why we have

940
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:48,400
planes today.

941
00:52:50,599 --> 00:52:52,119
Speaker 3: That is fascinating.

942
00:52:52,559 --> 00:52:56,280
Speaker 2: And I've heard this stuff before. I know Chad Lewis,

943
00:52:56,559 --> 00:53:00,360
I'm sure you know as well. He talks about the

944
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,960
phantom airships and these, you know things with the circus

945
00:53:04,159 --> 00:53:08,039
because the P. T. Barnum for Barnham got blamed for

946
00:53:08,199 --> 00:53:11,360
him as well, saying he did this is you know,

947
00:53:11,559 --> 00:53:13,840
clearly one of his things, you know, because it's it's

948
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:17,320
larger than life and stuff it. It makes me wonder though,

949
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:21,519
with with what you said, was there ever an airship

950
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,599
or was this back in the day people putting that,

951
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,239
you know, back back to the UFO disclosure, what if

952
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,320
there's something in the sky? You know, And now the

953
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:35,320
newspapers are reporting people are seeing this, it's this thing

954
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:39,079
up there and you're you're starting that trickle disclosure that

955
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,960
that feeding those little things way back then, you know,

956
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:46,119
was there ever any airships or was it just them saying,

957
00:53:46,199 --> 00:53:48,559
you know, what if what if there was something in

958
00:53:48,599 --> 00:53:49,880
the sky, would you go look for it?

959
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 3: Do you believe us?

960
00:53:51,559 --> 00:53:54,800
Speaker 2: You know, it's it's all that the human psychology and

961
00:53:55,119 --> 00:53:58,079
and looking into that because I didn't catch when when

962
00:53:58,159 --> 00:53:58,559
when was.

963
00:53:58,559 --> 00:53:59,159
Speaker 3: This all going on?

964
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:03,599
Speaker 4: We started in eighteen ninety seven, it's my understanding. Way

965
00:54:03,679 --> 00:54:06,159
back it goes from eighteen ninety seven, I think to

966
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:10,719
eighteen eighty eighteen ninety eight, I think it goes. It's

967
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:13,599
like it's like a six to nine month kind of adventure.

968
00:54:14,159 --> 00:54:15,559
And that's the other weird thing about it is like

969
00:54:15,599 --> 00:54:17,599
the airships don't go very fast in the story. They

970
00:54:17,679 --> 00:54:18,440
go pretty slow.

971
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:26,519
Speaker 2: And this I'm sorry, there's there's story going back, and

972
00:54:26,599 --> 00:54:29,280
I've I've realized this when I started like listening to

973
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:31,360
that story, like when when Chad was talking about it

974
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:32,599
and I started looking into it.

975
00:54:33,639 --> 00:54:35,039
Speaker 3: I don't know, if you watch a doctor who.

976
00:54:36,519 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 4: I have, I've not seen uh in a while, but

977
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,320
I watched like five seasons of it. Maybe good enough.

978
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:42,639
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's all right.

979
00:54:43,039 --> 00:54:45,639
Speaker 2: They when when Disney took it over, they put it

980
00:54:45,679 --> 00:54:47,360
on Disney Channel for a little while here, and one

981
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:52,000
of their episodes was this flying airship and there was

982
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,119
I don't know if there are goblins or I think

983
00:54:55,159 --> 00:54:57,880
there are goblins were supposedly piloting this and they went

984
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:01,880
around kidnapping babies, and I went, that's that's really interesting.

985
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,000
And then I started to remember there's a lot of

986
00:55:05,199 --> 00:55:09,840
fairy folklore way back going into this about these flying

987
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:13,079
airships and this whole storyline as well with that. So

988
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:18,159
here's another, you know, storyline of goblins or fairies or

989
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:21,280
something that have these airships that were going around and

990
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,119
I don't know when this, you know, I don't know

991
00:55:23,199 --> 00:55:24,920
a lot about I didn't dig that deep into it,

992
00:55:25,039 --> 00:55:28,840
but there's all these mythology and folklore and stuff going

993
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:33,079
into that as well. That that ties all this stuff together.

994
00:55:33,159 --> 00:55:38,199
A lot of these stories are cross modalities. You know,

995
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,159
you have the fairies, you have the UFOs, you have

996
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,760
you know, these airships are across all these modalities of

997
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,760
having these stories going back, and you really got to

998
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:47,920
wonder what does that mean?

999
00:55:48,159 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 3: You know, is is there truth behind this? Is there

1000
00:55:50,559 --> 00:55:51,519
there more going on?

1001
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 4: I mean, there's there's always more going on. I mean

1002
00:55:56,039 --> 00:55:58,440
that's even even if you don't even if you don't

1003
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:00,639
believe in the paranormal. I think it like, if you

1004
00:56:00,679 --> 00:56:03,360
don't believe in anything parentormal, you would probably agree that

1005
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,000
there's more going on because that's the pursuit of human knowledge.

1006
00:56:06,679 --> 00:56:09,039
That's the great the great field of science. It's like

1007
00:56:09,119 --> 00:56:11,760
there's always more to learn, there's always more to know,

1008
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:15,760
there's always ways to improve, and so you know, there

1009
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:18,679
is more out there. And that's the exciting part about

1010
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:22,000
the human existence and the human experience is like what

1011
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,400
is next? What can I find next? What can I do?

1012
00:56:24,639 --> 00:56:25,280
What can I learn?

1013
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:27,320
Speaker 3: Interesting?

1014
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 2: We were coming up on the end of the show

1015
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:32,800
here today, so anybody, again, we are not live. We

1016
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,679
are prerecorded, so if there's comments or questions, I apologize

1017
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:37,760
for that. We're not here we are on our way

1018
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:41,840
to Contact Modalities Expo. Before we wrap things up. There's

1019
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:43,920
also one other thing going on in the news, and

1020
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,159
this is mostly I want to say, there's one other

1021
00:56:46,199 --> 00:56:48,840
person that brought this up, but it was mostly Anna Polina.

1022
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:53,440
Luna has been talking a lot about the Book of Enoch. Oh,

1023
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:55,320
everyone should.

1024
00:56:55,159 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 4: Read this, and we made me read. It made me read.

1025
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 3: I literally did as well. Now, so but what do

1026
00:57:03,119 --> 00:57:04,360
you make of that? Wait?

1027
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 2: Where where does your thought go when you have this

1028
00:57:07,639 --> 00:57:11,239
congressional leader and you know, the head of disclosure and

1029
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:15,719
this this big name in this thing talking about now

1030
00:57:16,159 --> 00:57:20,519
we're going into the religious texts to understand ufology and

1031
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:24,480
UAPs and interdimensional extra traditionalism.

1032
00:57:25,559 --> 00:57:29,159
Speaker 4: What does this say? Well, I mean, to be honest,

1033
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:31,719
it's it's even it's more, it's worse than that, like

1034
00:57:33,239 --> 00:57:36,719
you have. I think his name is Benny Johnson. A

1035
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:42,079
conservative podcaster, asked Vice President J. D. Vance a very

1036
00:57:42,079 --> 00:57:45,840
similar question. He asked me about UFOs and Vance says,

1037
00:57:46,159 --> 00:57:47,679
this was this year, by the way, this was this

1038
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,039
was not like ten years ago. This is this year.

1039
00:57:50,119 --> 00:57:53,239
I think maybe February. He says, I believe they're demons.

1040
00:57:54,039 --> 00:57:54,239
Speaker 3: Yep.

1041
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 4: And so you have the Vice President of the United

1042
00:57:56,519 --> 00:57:59,920
States telling you that the UFOs and the sky are demons,

1043
00:58:00,639 --> 00:58:04,800
and you have a congresswoman who is essentially the de

1044
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:08,880
facto head of the UAP Caucus telling you to read

1045
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:19,400
the Book of Enoch. It's deeply it's deeply challenging and

1046
00:58:19,519 --> 00:58:24,159
frustrating for me because I want to approach these things

1047
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:29,840
as scientific and I want to understand things and expand

1048
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:33,199
the breadth of human knowledge through the best tool we have,

1049
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,719
which is science, and I can't do that when we

1050
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,920
reach for tools from the Bronze era. On the other hand,

1051
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,559
it's possible that there's something in these original texts that

1052
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:47,800
is true and has merit, and she can't really say it.

1053
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:49,920
This is a code, you know what I mean, Like

1054
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:53,039
she's in this skiff and she said and that, you know,

1055
00:58:53,159 --> 00:58:56,000
they say, like, you can't say anything about this stuff.

1056
00:58:56,719 --> 00:58:59,199
She can say, well, I can talk about the Bible, right,

1057
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:01,360
And they're like, you can talk about the Bible you're

1058
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:04,760
Christian or whatever, And so she brings up the Bible

1059
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,159
and I understand. The Book of Enoch is not a

1060
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:10,000
canonized book, but it is still used by some forms

1061
00:59:10,039 --> 00:59:15,159
of Christianity. Just to be clear and the Book of

1062
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:20,960
Enoch is a wild adventure. And I struggle to know

1063
00:59:21,239 --> 00:59:24,440
like precisely what she's referring to. Maybe you have an idea,

1064
00:59:24,519 --> 00:59:28,440
because like it is a like maybe maybe it's the angel,

1065
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:33,800
the angel human hybrids, the sin of lust where the angels,

1066
00:59:34,079 --> 00:59:40,000
the male angels, are smitten by the beautiful women human

1067
00:59:40,039 --> 00:59:43,079
women on earth, and then they have these horrible children,

1068
00:59:43,719 --> 00:59:48,639
these horrible children that are the Nephilim, and the Nephilim

1069
00:59:48,719 --> 00:59:53,320
are these beasts like abominations that just destroy everything. They

1070
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:57,039
eat people, animals, each other, and they just destroy cities,

1071
00:59:57,199 --> 01:00:00,719
and like then God punishes the age for the sin.

1072
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:02,960
It's like it's just like a wild ride. The Book

1073
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:05,840
of Enoch. It's it's it's it's a good story if

1074
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:09,559
you like stories. So I'm curious what you think about it.

1075
01:00:09,599 --> 01:00:11,000
But that's kind of like how I feel like. It's

1076
01:00:11,039 --> 01:00:13,239
it's frustrating that this is the text we're given and

1077
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:14,960
we're told that these things are demons. I don't think

1078
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:17,599
it's helpful for having rational adult conversations though.

1079
01:00:18,719 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 2: No, no, it's it's really not. And and you kind

1080
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:22,599
of hit the hit the nail on the head there.

1081
01:00:22,639 --> 01:00:25,079
That's that's pretty much sums up the Book of Enoch,

1082
01:00:25,599 --> 01:00:27,360
And what are you supposed to make of that?

1083
01:00:28,039 --> 01:00:28,159
Speaker 4: You know?

1084
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:31,519
Speaker 2: And and so this is what I took away, and

1085
01:00:31,639 --> 01:00:34,000
I don't I don't know anything that this has to

1086
01:00:34,079 --> 01:00:37,840
do with it. But she does talk about she in

1087
01:00:38,159 --> 01:00:43,400
the Book of Enoch, they talk about like God kills

1088
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:47,719
the Nephilum, but their spirits have to stay on earth.

1089
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:51,400
And these are what the demons are, and they're the

1090
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:53,840
ones that are possessing people. They're the ones that are

1091
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,039
causing like all the stuff that when we when we

1092
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,840
in the paranormal world talk about demons and you know,

1093
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:01,079
the thing on your shoulder that's telling you all these

1094
01:01:01,159 --> 01:01:04,360
bad things and leading you to sin. These are the

1095
01:01:04,599 --> 01:01:08,920
spirits of the Nephalom and that that's what I took

1096
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:10,079
away from the Book of Enoch.

1097
01:01:11,039 --> 01:01:12,679
Speaker 3: But then you know, you have like he.

1098
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 2: Talks about how these the watchers or the bad angels

1099
01:01:19,039 --> 01:01:20,599
that came to earth and did all this stuff and

1100
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:22,719
and gave us all the information.

1101
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:25,199
Speaker 3: That's that was the other thing is they come down

1102
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:27,400
and they teach us things.

1103
01:01:27,679 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 4: They do I miss that story, but you're correct. The

1104
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:33,800
angels come down and they teach us. I think basically

1105
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,000
science and math and.

1106
01:01:36,559 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 3: War, how to kill each other.

1107
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:41,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, I want to say it even says magic, but

1108
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:44,400
I'm not sure that's true. Like maybe it was. Yeah,

1109
01:01:44,599 --> 01:01:46,760
you know, whatever whatever magic is to someone in the

1110
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:49,159
Bronze era could just be technology. I don't know. So,

1111
01:01:51,679 --> 01:01:53,599
you know, the when you were saying about the the

1112
01:01:53,679 --> 01:01:57,360
Nephilum spirits being on Earth and they're the they're the

1113
01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:59,679
demons or they're the devils, like these little spirits that

1114
01:02:00,079 --> 01:02:05,039
on your shoulder, that's very very similar to the canonical

1115
01:02:05,119 --> 01:02:09,079
beliefs of scientology. I think that that's worth bringing up.

1116
01:02:09,559 --> 01:02:11,239
And I'm not trying to I'm not trying to mock

1117
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:13,599
scientology or the Book of Nephlom. I'm just saying like

1118
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:17,920
they're canonically very similar. It's maybe worth noting. I don't

1119
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:21,199
know what that means. Maybe it means nothing, but that's

1120
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:22,320
just thought I would bring that up.

1121
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:31,679
Speaker 2: And the more you look into all these different historical stories,

1122
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:35,079
we'll say, like you know, the Greeks, the Romans, the Egyptians,

1123
01:02:35,119 --> 01:02:38,679
all these different religions and theories and stuff whatever you.

1124
01:02:38,719 --> 01:02:39,159
Speaker 3: Want to call them.

1125
01:02:39,199 --> 01:02:41,920
Speaker 2: I'm not politically correct all the time, but all that stuff,

1126
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:47,079
I thought this also was interesting because it talks about

1127
01:02:47,119 --> 01:02:52,079
in the book Enoch how the he basically buries the

1128
01:02:52,199 --> 01:02:55,920
certain angels that the fallen angels will say in under

1129
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:59,840
the ground, which is also very interesting because if you're

1130
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:02,960
familiar with like Greek and Roman mythology, you have the Titans,

1131
01:03:03,519 --> 01:03:06,360
and these guys were these big beings and stuff. They

1132
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,360
were the originals and all, you know, where everything came from,

1133
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:13,079
and they get buried underground and sentenced to the same thing.

1134
01:03:13,639 --> 01:03:17,280
And so I literally just read Percy Jackson's whole you

1135
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:20,000
know series, and this is why I'm familiar with the Titans.

1136
01:03:20,519 --> 01:03:24,440
But it was very interesting to say, like, well, here's

1137
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:28,079
another you know, analogy of these two stories linking up.

1138
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:32,519
And but again going back to why is she talking

1139
01:03:32,559 --> 01:03:32,920
about this?

1140
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:36,320
Speaker 3: I have no idea. I have no idea how you connect.

1141
01:03:36,079 --> 01:03:39,400
Speaker 4: This back to I feel I do feel like it's

1142
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:41,599
a code. I do feel like she's trying to tell

1143
01:03:41,679 --> 01:03:44,159
us something. But the problem is it's a very muddled code,

1144
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:50,360
giving someone, you know, a Bronze era folklorish text and

1145
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:54,679
telling us translate this to the modern, you know observations

1146
01:03:54,719 --> 01:03:59,840
of UFO, and the phenomenon is just it's it's maybe

1147
01:04:00,639 --> 01:04:03,400
doing more harm than good. Yeah, that makes sense.

1148
01:04:05,519 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 2: Actually we will leave that there. Man, So you you

1149
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:16,440
have yourself a whole podcast website everything Alien Wisconsin. Tell

1150
01:04:16,519 --> 01:04:17,079
us all about that.

1151
01:04:18,679 --> 01:04:20,920
Speaker 4: I have a new website called alien Wisconsin dot com.

1152
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:23,280
It has a kind of a fun feature on it

1153
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:25,519
too that I was inspired by a different podcaster is

1154
01:04:25,559 --> 01:04:28,239
The new website has the ability to leave a story.

1155
01:04:28,719 --> 01:04:31,079
You can leave a ninety second audio file for me

1156
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:34,280
if if it's a story like the idea would be

1157
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:35,960
that we would, you know, maybe share it in a

1158
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,679
future episode. So that's the idea. Or if you don't,

1159
01:04:38,719 --> 01:04:40,159
just want to say something nice to me or of

1160
01:04:40,239 --> 01:04:42,159
the show and hopefully not something to me, and you

1161
01:04:42,199 --> 01:04:45,960
know that that's on there. Alien Wisconsin on YouTube is

1162
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,880
where we post new episodes and I will probably be

1163
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:51,360
filming at contact Modalities. There will be an episode related

1164
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:53,639
to that. So I'm really looking forward to it and

1165
01:04:53,679 --> 01:04:56,079
I'm looking forward to meeting everyone and saying hi. So

1166
01:04:56,559 --> 01:04:58,559
don't be a stranger if you see me like just

1167
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:02,079
just I'm read simply friendly, So just tap me on

1168
01:05:02,119 --> 01:05:03,559
his shoulder and say hi, and I would I would

1169
01:05:03,559 --> 01:05:04,239
love to meet you there.

1170
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:08,800
Speaker 2: Very cool, absolutely for anybody listening the link to your

1171
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:11,320
website is in the show notes, so you guys can

1172
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:14,679
have a direct link. Go check that out as well

1173
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:17,079
as you can find both of us this coming weekend

1174
01:05:17,199 --> 01:05:19,159
here if you're watching this live, we are going to

1175
01:05:19,159 --> 01:05:22,760
be in Delivment, Wisconsin at Contact Modalities expot May first

1176
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:27,880
to the third, and Cryptids, Anomalies and Paranormal Convention May ninth.

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Speaker 3: In fund Black, Wisconsin. I say this so much, I

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01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:33,719
should know this by now. Awesome.

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Speaker 2: Ian, Thank you so much for being on. One final thought,

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what do you want from your research? From you know

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what's going on in the world. What do you want

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to leave people with today?

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Speaker 4: I think I always tell people to believe in themselves

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and believe in aliens.

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Speaker 3: Perfect.

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Speaker 2: Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome, Ian, thank you so much for

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being on. I look forward to hanging out with you

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the next two weeks.

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Speaker 4: Take great. Bye.

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Speaker 3: All right, guys, that is our show for this week.

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Thank you all for tuning in.

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Speaker 2: Remember we are recorded today, so if we didn't answer

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01:06:09,719 --> 01:06:12,519
your questions, I apologize. Come find us in person, yell

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at us there, whatever you want to do, but thanks

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01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:17,880
for tuning in, Thanks for watching, Thanks for all your

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01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:18,400
great comments.

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Speaker 3: Because I'm sure there were some.

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Speaker 2: Until next time, guys, remember to like, subscribe and share

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all things here on the Untold Radio Network, and go

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01:06:26,199 --> 01:06:28,760
check out Cryptid's anomalies on the Paranormal Society if you

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01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:31,480
want more me or Alien Wisconsin if you want more Ian.

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01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:34,679
His links are in the show notes as well as

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01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:37,679
mine and all the Untold stuff. So until next time, guys,

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01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:41,360
remember we're all part of the paranormal spectrum. Take care,

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01:06:41,639 --> 01:06:43,159
be well, and I'll see you next week.

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Speaker 4: You seem to know South there, don't. Let's call it

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O King and tell me please.

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Speaker 2: Next thing streams on basis in the room, man, I

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can see.

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Speaker 4: I'm a Kaine, I'm bringing under he Rich. I'm a

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ard Ricaine if you can in all, I'm a heard Kaine,

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always some somebum, not a game that.

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Speaker 5: I'm a ward Rica.

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Speaker 4: I'm telling away m