WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.520 Before we dive in, here's another show you can enjoy 2 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:06.120 in the True Story FM family of entertainment podcasts. In 3 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:09.160 a world where podcasts are a dime a dozen, one 4 00:00:09.199 --> 00:00:12.080 show dares to stand out from the rest. The Film Board, 5 00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:14.400 a podcast unafraid to tell it like it is. 6 00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:18.559 We're here for one reason, and one reason only downloads. 7 00:00:18.679 --> 00:00:21.760 That's right. We review new release movies because that's what 8 00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:23.000 gets people's attention. 9 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:25.160 But just because we're in it for the clicks doesn't 10 00:00:25.160 --> 00:00:27.120 mean we don't take our job seriously. 11 00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:30.199 We're part of the next real family of film podcasts, 12 00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:31.280 and we're proud of it. 13 00:00:31.359 --> 00:00:34.200 Our reviews are just as insightful and thought provoking as 14 00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:36.000 any of our other film podcasts. 15 00:00:36.039 --> 00:00:38.119 It's just that this podcast is all about that. 16 00:00:38.159 --> 00:00:39.560 Sweet, sweet seo. 17 00:00:39.880 --> 00:00:42.280 The nectar squows from the tree of being. 18 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:46.799 We're only human, but we're also creators, and creators eat 19 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:47.840 clicks to survive. 20 00:00:47.960 --> 00:00:51.079 So if you want honest, unfiltered opinions on the very 21 00:00:51.159 --> 00:00:53.280 latest movies right on opening weekend. 22 00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:56.200 Delivered with the self awareness of a team looking for downloads, 23 00:00:56.320 --> 00:00:58.600 then tune in to the Film Board. 24 00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:04.000 Where every download counts, but yours counts the most. 25 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:08.040 Do you like movies. 26 00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:10.359 Do you like sports and you never thought I never 27 00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:12.959 played that sport on the screen, but I really enjoyed 28 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:14.519 how the movie made me feel. 29 00:01:14.640 --> 00:01:16.879 Well, then have we got a show for you. The 30 00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:18.400 Adrian Moment is where. 31 00:01:18.159 --> 00:01:21.560 My friend Ocean and I discussed the triangulation of sports, 32 00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:22.760 movies and life. 33 00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:25.760 We dive deep into the movies, discussing how they relate 34 00:01:25.799 --> 00:01:27.599 to and have affected our lives. 35 00:01:27.719 --> 00:01:30.599 We will talk about why the sport matters to the movie, 36 00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:33.439 why you don't have to love the sport to enjoy 37 00:01:33.480 --> 00:01:37.640 the movie, and mine a few nuggets of meaning inside. 38 00:01:37.239 --> 00:01:39.879 The story you may not have realized was really there. 39 00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:42.239 After listening to our show, come join us for more 40 00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:44.840 conversations about the movie that portray the thrill. 41 00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:47.280 Of victory and the agony of defeat. 42 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:50.359 Find The Adrian Moment podcast on your favid podcast hap 43 00:01:50.519 --> 00:01:52.959 and join us while we cover the sports you love 44 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:54.799 and the ones you never think about. 45 00:01:54.879 --> 00:01:59.680 You will never see sports or sport movies the same again. 46 00:02:09.800 --> 00:02:12.280 Hello, and welcome to this episode of Superhero Ethics. 47 00:02:12.840 --> 00:02:14.599 The Penguin was a show that caught a lot of 48 00:02:14.599 --> 00:02:17.599 people by storm, was really popular when it came out 49 00:02:17.639 --> 00:02:20.639 and raised all sorts of great questions. Due to the 50 00:02:20.719 --> 00:02:23.479 thankless task of flying halfway around the world, Reeky has 51 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:25.960 watched all of it in one plane flight. I watched 52 00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:27.520 most of it when it came out, and today we're 53 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:29.960 going to be talking about that show starring Colin Ferrell 54 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:33.680 and Christian Malodi. So right off the bat, for those 55 00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:36.039 who haven't seen it, there will be some spoilers in this, 56 00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:39.199 including a big spoiler at the end, So if you 57 00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:41.759 haven't watched it, definitely recommend hitting pause watch it. It 58 00:02:41.840 --> 00:02:45.199 is phenomenal, or just being comfortable being spoiled because there's 59 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:48.719 a big twist at the end, reaky overall, What do 60 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:49.080 you think? 61 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:53.240 Well, I also want to say it's Kristin Miliotti. Oh 62 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:57.879 thank you, much more Italian sounding name fitting me. What 63 00:02:57.919 --> 00:03:00.919 did I think of this show? I going into it. 64 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:04.639 I'm gonna start going into it. I wasn't that excited, 65 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:10.919 but when you're flying to Japan from California, you have 66 00:03:11.039 --> 00:03:13.560 like a ten hour flight and you need stuff to watch. 67 00:03:13.639 --> 00:03:16.280 I was like, oh, it's like barely gonna fit into 68 00:03:16.280 --> 00:03:22.240 the flight, so you know it is superhero adjacent. So 69 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:25.199 I decided to watch it, and not only I would 70 00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:28.400 say I was pleasantly surprised. I was blown away. 71 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:29.759 Yeah, and I. 72 00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:32.360 Knew going in like it was very critically acclaimed and 73 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:35.840 people loved it, but I didn't dig too deep into why. 74 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:42.719 And absolutely Colin Ferrell the performance of his lifetime up 75 00:03:42.759 --> 00:03:45.400 to now. I'd say, I think he's been winning awards 76 00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:49.400 for it rightfully. So the makeup is obviously like you 77 00:03:49.400 --> 00:03:51.759 can just look at it and tell or not tell 78 00:03:51.960 --> 00:03:55.919 that it's him and be like what, But his acting, too, 79 00:03:56.120 --> 00:03:58.800 like sells the role. It is not just the makeup 80 00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:02.560 that makes him disappear, like he himself disappears into this 81 00:04:02.680 --> 00:04:08.639 performance is the penguin. And then the opposite him, Kristin Miliatti, 82 00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:14.319 who most people probably know as the mother from How 83 00:04:14.360 --> 00:04:17.680 I Met Your Mother. Kind of a thankless role the 84 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:20.079 way that show was set up, and you know, it 85 00:04:20.079 --> 00:04:22.519 has nothing to do with her or how she portrayed 86 00:04:22.600 --> 00:04:26.399 the role, but I would say maybe she is as 87 00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:31.000 good or even better here, And just like the two 88 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:34.000 of them together, it was so electric. And then, as 89 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:38.959 you said, the ethical questions and considerations of this, given 90 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:42.279 that it's basically a mob story, it's like, well, there's 91 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:45.360 a lot of crime going on, but within the timing. 92 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:49.959 There's some some interesting things to discuss, right for sure. 93 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:52.040 And and just to further set the scene for those 94 00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:54.839 I haven't seen the show, U, the character is the 95 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:57.759 same one that was set up in the Matt Reeves 96 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:03.519 The Batman Robert Patterson movie The Batman. The Penguin is 97 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:05.240 a small character in that but one that really kind 98 00:05:05.240 --> 00:05:07.079 of caught a lot of people's eye because Colin Farrell 99 00:05:07.199 --> 00:05:09.040 was so good in it and the makeup was so good, 100 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:11.759 and so they gave him the spin off show. And 101 00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:15.680 it is all taking place in the world immediately following 102 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:18.800 that movie, where there's been massive disruption because of all 103 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:21.600 the events that happened in that movie and things like that. 104 00:05:22.279 --> 00:05:24.680 And one of the things that happens in that movie 105 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:27.480 is the fall of the leader of one of the 106 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:31.319 major crime families in town, the Falcones. And now this 107 00:05:31.480 --> 00:05:34.240 is the show is mostly about kind of the various 108 00:05:34.279 --> 00:05:35.519 groups at tempting to fill. 109 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:36.079 The vacuum for that. 110 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:42.279 And yeah, I just want to comment on the movie 111 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:47.680 The Batman so also surprisingly good given you know, like 112 00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:51.240 Robert Pattinson people were skeptical of I thought you gave 113 00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:56.519 a great performance. The the movie kind of is sets 114 00:05:56.600 --> 00:06:00.160 up a no man's land situation from the comics where 115 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:03.000 Gotham City falls to I think in the in the 116 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:06.800 comics is an earthquake and is cut off from the 117 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:11.639 rest of the country and it devolves into like fiefdoms 118 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:15.720 of gangs controlling the city, and Batman is like slowly 119 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:19.720 helping the Gotham Police Department take the city back from 120 00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:23.399 these gangs, and there's like no outside support. It doesn't 121 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:25.800 go that far in the movie and the Penguin, but 122 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:28.600 I think it's definitely like the inspiration for what is 123 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:29.639 happening here. 124 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:34.800 Definitely, and it's a really interesting story in This is 125 00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:37.199 kind of a leap, but I think there's some connections here. 126 00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:40.079 The story that they're kind of telling is kind of 127 00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:44.519 the a microcosm of what we saw happen in Iraq, 128 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:48.319 where Saddam Musin was clearly horrible and terrible. 129 00:06:47.959 --> 00:06:49.519 And but of course all the reasons we went into 130 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:51.000 that war, you know, based on. 131 00:06:51.040 --> 00:06:56.680 Livest The point though, being that when he fell, there 132 00:06:56.720 --> 00:06:59.120 was anarchy and chaos because there was no sort of 133 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:04.120 situation set up to what happens next, and we're kind 134 00:07:04.120 --> 00:07:07.680 of seeing a similar thing here in the underworld of Gotham, 135 00:07:07.720 --> 00:07:10.360 and this has often been one of the questions is 136 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:12.639 is it better to leave someone in control who is 137 00:07:12.680 --> 00:07:15.680 horrible and terrible and doing all these bad things, or 138 00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:17.160 to you know, cut off the head of the snake 139 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:20.480 and but then deal with all of that the consequences 140 00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:22.959 of that, and that I think part of you know, 141 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:25.360 the movie is about that decision. 142 00:07:25.480 --> 00:07:27.720 And and I don't think there's any a moment in. 143 00:07:27.639 --> 00:07:29.600 The show where we're thinking it was the wrong decision, 144 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:32.639 but it definitely is reminding us, like, yeah, arresting the 145 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:36.639 head of one crime family does not by any means 146 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:38.839 deal with that issue. Like the whole crime family is 147 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:41.839 still there, all their operations are still there. It just 148 00:07:41.879 --> 00:07:43.600 means now there's a lot more fightings. You who takes 149 00:07:43.639 --> 00:07:43.920 it over? 150 00:07:47.439 --> 00:07:52.319 Yeah? And spoilers. I mean this, this spoiler is obvious. 151 00:07:52.399 --> 00:07:56.519 But the penguin takes over because it's his show. Yeah, 152 00:07:56.759 --> 00:08:01.439 And it brings it brings to light like how many 153 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:06.639 shows are there where the protagonist is a bad guy 154 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:10.160 or like a villain and a super villain like from 155 00:08:10.199 --> 00:08:13.879 the comics, But he's been toned down a lot in 156 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:17.920 the past thirty years to be like this more mob based, 157 00:08:17.959 --> 00:08:23.120 like not as super villainy, right, let's say, compared to 158 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:25.600 like a joker, And I think. 159 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:28.839 That kind of fits the first with the Christian Bale movies, 160 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:31.240 but then even more so with Matt Reeves. We're making 161 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:33.840 it much more of a this is a detective with 162 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:36.480 a lot of fancy toys, rather than being anything kind 163 00:08:36.519 --> 00:08:40.120 of supernatural or mystical happening in this even with his villains, 164 00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:44.320 and you're right here with a penguin among other things, 165 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:45.960 Like there's often a lot of kind of anti Semitism 166 00:08:46.039 --> 00:08:47.879 in some of the portrayals of him before, especially with 167 00:08:47.879 --> 00:08:50.279 the long nose and stuff like that, that's all been 168 00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:53.039 caught away, but even looking at like the Danny DeVito 169 00:08:53.159 --> 00:08:55.519 kind of portrayal of him being like born with like 170 00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:58.000 webbed hands and web feet and having this kind of 171 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:01.480 ability to communicate with penguins and and and being, yeah, 172 00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:06.519 this kind of like different kind of human mutant type thing. 173 00:09:06.919 --> 00:09:07.759 All that's cut away. 174 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:12.360 This is a guy with he has a limp that 175 00:09:12.399 --> 00:09:14.840 makes him kind of wattle, and he had because of 176 00:09:14.879 --> 00:09:19.200 a bad leg, and he just but he's a normal 177 00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:22.879 human being who's a mobster. And I really do like 178 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:24.720 that because you're right, I think This show is kind 179 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:28.080 of unique in that not completely. 180 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:30.320 I think like Breaking Bad is maybe one of the. 181 00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:34.759 Best connections to it, one of the best similar things 182 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:37.440 to it, or The Sopranos in that because a lot 183 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:41.279 of times a mob show is well, this person wants 184 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:43.919 to make it better, you know, like Michael Corleoni who 185 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:47.399 always wanted to fix the family and take them legitimate, 186 00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:49.879 or other people who are like where the hero is 187 00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:52.919 someone who's infiltrating the mob but maybe gets like pulled 188 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:53.399 into it. 189 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:56.519 Luke Cage and Sex Season two becomes a lot of that. 190 00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:00.679 This is just a straight out mobster, and we kind 191 00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:03.360 of learned, like at first he appears as a sympathetic 192 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:06.480 mobster where he's he's being bullied and he's got this 193 00:10:06.519 --> 00:10:09.440 really horrible relationship with his mother, and there's all these 194 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:11.639 things set up to make you feel bad for him, 195 00:10:12.480 --> 00:10:14.879 and one by one those are kind of stripped away 196 00:10:14.919 --> 00:10:17.679 as you realize this guy's been kind of an ethically 197 00:10:17.720 --> 00:10:22.200 a monster since he was a kid, including allowing one 198 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:24.360 of his brothers to die was it one or two 199 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:27.559 his brothers, both of yeah, both of his brothers to 200 00:10:27.639 --> 00:10:30.440 die so that he could get more of his mother's love. 201 00:10:30.559 --> 00:10:32.799 And yes, the kids had been bullying him a little 202 00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:36.360 bit and that's not great. But it's clearly like no, 203 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:40.919 like he's at first it seems like it was a 204 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:43.279 terrible accident because he was trying to just get justice 205 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:46.879 for bullying them. And no, it's eventually revealed like he 206 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:49.000 is a monster. He killed his brothers at a young 207 00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:51.559 age and part of why his mother's always treated him 208 00:10:51.559 --> 00:10:53.000 so bad is because she knows this. 209 00:10:54.879 --> 00:10:58.200 Yeah, And to be clear, like the killed he did 210 00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:04.000 not personally, they like murdered them, right. He tricked them 211 00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:07.399 into like this underground tunnel and then locked the door 212 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:10.759 behind him, and it was raining at the time, so 213 00:11:10.799 --> 00:11:13.039 it's our It could be argued that he didn't know 214 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:15.600 that they would die, but he definitely like trapped them 215 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:18.720 in a really bad place, right, and just like lied 216 00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:20.039 to about where they were. 217 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:23.320 Yeah, even if his original intent wasn't to kill them, 218 00:11:23.879 --> 00:11:25.600 certainly when one of the people were like, they could 219 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:27.679 die if we don't find them, where are they? 220 00:11:27.960 --> 00:11:29.440 And yet as you said, he lied and he said 221 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:30.799 he had no idea. 222 00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:35.679 And I are like he's lying to himself right, like 223 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:39.120 psychologically like he has he is in such a state 224 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:41.840 of denial that he doesn't believe that he did these things, 225 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:45.000 at least like to the audience, and like he never 226 00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:45.679 admits it. 227 00:11:46.279 --> 00:11:49.559 Yeah, I think that's one of the things that kind 228 00:11:49.600 --> 00:11:51.840 of left open, and I, you know, again, I don't 229 00:11:51.879 --> 00:11:55.080 want to Even as I was hearing myself say that, 230 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:56.480 I wanted to back off it a bit because I 231 00:11:56.480 --> 00:11:58.559 think the idea of like, you know, people are just 232 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:01.759 like good people or monsters is not applicable. And an 233 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:03.960 eight year old who's doing those terrible things like that 234 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:06.799 comes from somewhere, and you know, those people can still 235 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:09.039 be be real abated at it or saved when it's 236 00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:13.480 happening at such a young age, but sometimes not. And yeah, 237 00:12:13.480 --> 00:12:16.159 obviously there's just so much complexity to that relationship that 238 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:19.679 I feel like, I don't know if he's lying to 239 00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:23.440 himself or if he just doesn't quite like accept the 240 00:12:23.480 --> 00:12:27.519 consequences of what's happening or or what And I think 241 00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:29.799 I to me, I think that's very intentionally left vague, 242 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:32.080 and I kind of love that, and I think it's 243 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:36.080 probably be explored further in later seasons, but because right now, yeah, 244 00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:38.240 I don't know if he was, as you said, kind 245 00:12:38.279 --> 00:12:40.399 of lying to himself or kind of thinking, well, they 246 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:42.360 deserve this, but I'm sure eventually that someone will find 247 00:12:42.399 --> 00:12:44.799 them and they'll be okay, or if he really was 248 00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:46.600 setting out to be like I am going to kill 249 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:48.679 these people so that I have more time with my mother. 250 00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:54.279 Yeah, and I agree with what you said that the 251 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:57.679 show is presenting him in a way that they they 252 00:12:57.759 --> 00:13:01.200 kind of do the Seesaw act of is he sympathetic 253 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:04.960 is he not? I mean, in the first episode, he 254 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:10.159 straight up murders Alberto Falcone, who is like the nominal 255 00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:16.200 air Falcone crime family, and does it in a very 256 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:19.720 cold blooded way, like they are having like a friendly drink, 257 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:23.559 and then I think Alberto insults him and he just 258 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:25.559 like doesn't even say they just pulls out his gun 259 00:13:25.639 --> 00:13:28.240 and shoots it right like, and it's it's done in 260 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:31.159 a way that's like, oh, yeah, this is this is 261 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:34.639 the character. This is who the penguin is or Oz. 262 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:37.639 I like that, by the way, But first off, they 263 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:40.759 dropped the cobble pot. He's just his last name is Cobb, 264 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:43.919 and then most of the time his first name is 265 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:46.840 still full name is Oswald, but most people just call 266 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:49.159 him Oz. And it was like a nice change of pace. 267 00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:52.759 I felt like to make him a little more grounded 268 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:56.559 and real, because oftentimes comic book characters have names that 269 00:13:56.600 --> 00:13:57.440 are a little out. 270 00:13:57.320 --> 00:14:00.440 There, right, and the comb pot often is connect to him, 271 00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:02.600 the idea of him being born to very rich parents, 272 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:05.679 and they've kind of gotten rid of that entirely. I 273 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:09.879 will say, just on the with Alberta Alberto, what's the 274 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:12.679 son's name again, it's albert Alberto Alberto. 275 00:14:12.799 --> 00:14:15.240 Thank you. He doesn't just insult him once. 276 00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:18.480 He's really braiding him and kind of like attacking everything 277 00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:21.879 about him. And I think that's it's It's the perfect 278 00:14:21.879 --> 00:14:26.000 seesaw moment because we are supposed to feel so sympathetic 279 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:29.120 for him. He's being bullied, he's being badgered, he's being 280 00:14:29.159 --> 00:14:32.120 treated like he's absolutely nothing, and you're kind of like, yeah, 281 00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:34.080 if you were like to smack this guy across the face. 282 00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:35.679 Oh my god, he just killed him. 283 00:14:36.039 --> 00:14:36.440 Yeah, I. 284 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:38.519 Was the surprise. 285 00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:41.519 It was like you because you again, like the premise 286 00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:44.159 of the show, you understand like he's going to take over, 287 00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:46.440 he's probably going to kill most of these people, and 288 00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:48.080 you're like, oh, like, how is he gonna get Oh, 289 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:48.639 he just did it. 290 00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:48.879 Now. 291 00:14:49.279 --> 00:14:52.799 It was like the feeling of it and That's the 292 00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:57.039 interesting thing is like he's very impulsive in that way 293 00:14:57.320 --> 00:15:01.440 he does. He does this multiple times, and it's really 294 00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:05.159 like his silver tongue, like his talking that gets him 295 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:07.360 out of it, Like he talks his way out of 296 00:15:07.399 --> 00:15:11.159 so many situations. And that that too is like a 297 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:15.440 contrast to many other villains and or heroes right who 298 00:15:15.559 --> 00:15:18.960 use their powers, their superpowers to get out of situations. 299 00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:21.080 I guess his superpowers is talking. 300 00:15:21.559 --> 00:15:22.600 Yeah, he doesn't. 301 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:25.039 He doesn't have super strength, he doesn't have swimming ability. 302 00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:27.600 All he has is like charisma twenty one, an advantage 303 00:15:27.639 --> 00:15:31.919 on like deception and persuasion roles. And I feel like 304 00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:33.799 the thing with him is that they keep making him 305 00:15:33.799 --> 00:15:37.200 sympathetic but then having him overreact to what you think 306 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:40.320 would be expected. Because even when his brothers get locked 307 00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:44.720 up and then die through his actions, I remember the 308 00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:47.159 kind of the way that scene starts is that the 309 00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:49.679 three of them are going out to play. I think 310 00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:52.039 I'm like hide and seek, and the two of them 311 00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:54.799 hide in an area that's really hard for him to 312 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:56.399 get to because I think he has a brace on 313 00:15:56.440 --> 00:15:56.840 his leg. 314 00:15:57.679 --> 00:16:00.200 And I remember, particularly as a disable. 315 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:03.519 Person, feeling this incredible rush of sympathy for him that 316 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:05.759 these kids were kind of being jerks because they're actually 317 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:07.679 make He says like, look, I can't climb down to 318 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:10.279 find you, and they say, no, you have to, even 319 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:13.240 though it's difficult and dangerous for him, And I felt 320 00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:16.320 so sympathetic for him, and because the kids are kind 321 00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:20.039 of being little shits and the way kids are, and 322 00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:22.159 but they don't deserve to die for that. And so 323 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:25.240 when he first locks them in, it's kind of like, yeah, okay, 324 00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:27.679 that's fair, Like give them a dose of their own medicine. 325 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:29.639 Let them, you know, have to be trapped for a 326 00:16:29.639 --> 00:16:31.919 little while, and then of course go let them. Okay, 327 00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:33.399 well you're gonna go let them out now, right are 328 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:35.279 Okay it's raining, now you're gonna. 329 00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:37.480 Go let no. Oh nope, he's just he's killing them, 330 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:38.000 you know. 331 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:41.080 That's what I kept feeling, is like his initial reaction 332 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:44.080 is justified, but then he goes so much further than 333 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:44.919 you're thinking. 334 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:50.200 Not about justified, but relatable definitely, Like there's a ladder 335 00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:53.840 he can't get down, and he like spots them with 336 00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:56.279 his flashlight and he's like that's good enough, right, Like 337 00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:58.679 I caught you with the light beam. I think is 338 00:16:58.759 --> 00:17:00.919 the phrase or something, and and like, no, you got 339 00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:03.840 to come down here. It's like, but but I can't. Yeah, 340 00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:08.480 So it's it is relatable to have an emotional outburst, 341 00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:13.160 I think. But then it is is I don't know, calculated, 342 00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:17.079 the calculated way that afterwards, like he doubles down on 343 00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:20.440 it or just like continues on that path is what 344 00:17:20.599 --> 00:17:24.319 makes him a monster in this case, you know, not 345 00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:27.519 a maybe not a murderer, but responsible for their deaths. 346 00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:30.480 Well, and let me ask more about that, because if 347 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:32.359 I remember, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I 348 00:17:32.359 --> 00:17:34.400 think we discussed the show when I was watching it, 349 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:36.279 and you had said one of the reasons you were 350 00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:38.480 interested in it is that generally you don't love shows 351 00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:40.559 that are just about you know, bad people where there 352 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:41.720 isn't really a hero figure. 353 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:45.079 Yeah, yeah, I mean you mentioned Breaking Bad, like I've 354 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:48.480 never been interested in watching Breaking Bad, Yeah, for that reason. 355 00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:52.039 And it's, you know, part of it is the main character, 356 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:54.599 like I know enough about him, like I've seen stuff 357 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:59.359 and like the crime aspect, so yeah, I would say 358 00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:02.880 like this one, and what kept me hooked was honestly 359 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:04.160 the character of Victor. 360 00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:05.160 Yeah. 361 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:08.799 The more we haven't talked about. But is essentially his 362 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:13.480 protege right and kind of becomes like an adopted son 363 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:19.039 figure in this story and I love go Ahead. 364 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:21.920 Victor is someone who he finds because there's a couple 365 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:24.720 of people who are robbing his car, just like you know, 366 00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:26.960 like seeing the hobcaps, you know, because this is kind 367 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:28.839 of just a pretty bad neighborhood right now. 368 00:18:29.319 --> 00:18:30.720 And he responds by shooting them. 369 00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:32.640 And I don't remember if he actually kills any of 370 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:34.359 them or if he just drives them off, or he 371 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:35.400 definitely wounds a couple. 372 00:18:35.960 --> 00:18:37.880 I don't I don't think he hits anyone he shoots 373 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:40.640 at that ends up hitting his own car, which yeah, 374 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:41.920 is mentioned later. 375 00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:45.000 He definitely compell a lot of fear into them, and 376 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:47.400 Victor is the one who doesn't get away. And Victor 377 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:50.279 has a very bad stutter at this point, and I 378 00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:52.799 think is otherwise like he's kind of the runt of 379 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:56.599 the group. I think Penguin really sees both. He kind 380 00:18:56.599 --> 00:18:58.759 of is like has the kind of like I've survived this, 381 00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:00.680 and I'm mad at you that you're not this, but 382 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:03.400 also a lot of sympathy for him, and it builds 383 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:06.680 this really interesting connection where Penguin is both like bullying 384 00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:08.640 the hell out of this kid and threatening his life, 385 00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:10.960 but also, as you said, kind of making him a 386 00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:13.519 protege and turning him into like a minime. 387 00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:15.279 Yeah. 388 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:19.160 And I love the parallel of their introduction, at least 389 00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:22.000 to me, Like I read it as a parallel to 390 00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:27.640 Batman and Robin Jason Todd Robin who is trying to 391 00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:31.200 steal the Batmobile or steal his upcast or something. It's 392 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:35.039 rims and that's how that's how they meet. And so 393 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:36.960 like when I saw that, I was like, oh, yeah, 394 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:38.160 this is this is cute. 395 00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:41.160 Yeah, it's very much like the Mirror Universe version of that. 396 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:44.960 Yeah, and I just want to acknowledge. Victor Aguilar is 397 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:48.759 the character's name, played by Renzi Felise and does a 398 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:51.319 pretty good job like not a stand up but again 399 00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:56.279 when you're up against these these superstars giving amazing performances, 400 00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:00.240 like he he is never distracting, and that's he's good 401 00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:00.880