Speaker 1: This is Pod Popular podcast for the people, the.
Speaker 2: Great Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate.
Speaker 3: The Great Love Debate, It's a great love to be Hi.
Speaker 4: Get everyone, It's Brian Howie. Welcome to The Great Love Debate,
Speaker 4: the world's number one dating and relationship podcast since twenty fifteen.
Speaker 4: I am here outside the studios of Pod Popular. I
Speaker 4: am in the one in Boga Raton, Florida. And because
Speaker 4: this time of year is so nice in Boca Raton, Florida,
Speaker 4: I wanted to sit outside and have a conversation on
Speaker 4: a nice sunny day, which gives you a relaxed feel,
Speaker 4: because we're gonna get into some things that may or
Speaker 4: may not be so relaxing. And when I asked my
Speaker 4: guest to be on my podcast, she kind of wanted
Speaker 4: to know what we were talking about. And I made
Speaker 4: the comment like I make with all my guests, like
Speaker 4: if we were going to brunch your dinner, you wouldn't
Speaker 4: say what are we going to talk about? Or maybe
Speaker 4: you would. I don't know what we were going to
Speaker 4: get into. Is a is a subject matter that we
Speaker 4: have touched on on this podcast before. It is about
Speaker 4: a very specific time in someone's life when they have
Speaker 4: to date. So if you're not quite to that time,
Speaker 4: this is sort of the ghost of dating future. And
Speaker 4: if you're past that time, you're gonna be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: that was rough for me. And if you're in that time,
Speaker 4: you might want to take some notes on this. It
Speaker 4: is about what it is like, particularly as a woman
Speaker 4: to date in your fifties. So I am not an
Speaker 4: expert on dating as a woman in your fifties, but
Speaker 4: I brought in somebody who knows a lot more about
Speaker 4: this than just about anybody I know. She is the
Speaker 4: host of the very very popular fifties af podcast, The
Speaker 4: Lovely Nicole Channis. How are you?
Speaker 1: I'm great, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 4: So you heard me kind of bring that up. I
Speaker 4: think that, for a variety of reasons, dating in your
Speaker 4: fifties is the toughest. So let me go big picture first.
Speaker 4: Assuming you're in your fifties.
Speaker 1: Fifty five and damn proud of it.
Speaker 4: So if you dated in your tea means, and you
Speaker 4: dad in your twenties and January thirties to date forties,
Speaker 4: you you are at least stuck your toe in the
Speaker 4: waters of five different decades of dating all have their
Speaker 4: own feel forties not forties. All have their own feel
Speaker 4: all have their own challenges, all have their own pluses,
Speaker 4: All have their own sort of body of information. Now,
Speaker 4: with wisdom, we should improve just about in any aspect
Speaker 4: of life. I'm not sure that dating necessarily gets better
Speaker 4: when we get to certain in terms of our skill set,
Speaker 4: in terms of how good we are at it. How
Speaker 4: do you look at if you just had to sum
Speaker 4: up dating in your fifties in one sentence, how would
Speaker 4: you describe that?
Speaker 5: Well, everybody's journey is different, Bryan, to be honest with you,
Speaker 5: so I'm kind of digging it.
Speaker 4: Well, if you're digging it, you're going to do well.
Speaker 4: That is a good thing.
Speaker 1: No, I'm digging it.
Speaker 5: But when I say that, I had to have a
Speaker 5: journey before I was digging it, And you know, part
Speaker 5: of that starts out. Look, Look, if you're single in
Speaker 5: your fifties, it's either your widow or your.
Speaker 1: Divorce worst right, or you never married or you never married.
Speaker 4: Okay, all have their own stories.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, which comes baggage and also a ton of information knowledge.
Speaker 1: But you kind of you have to be able to
Speaker 1: evolve continuously.
Speaker 5: And so I had to go on my own journey
Speaker 5: to become my own strong individual before I was going
Speaker 5: to be out in a dating world and like be
Speaker 5: at all successful. If I want to use that word,
Speaker 5: you know it doesn't happen overnight.
Speaker 4: You have to define what success means. Success dating in
Speaker 4: your twenties means a little bit different in your thirty fourth.
Speaker 4: Everything is about where I think there are three unique
Speaker 4: challenges for a woman when you are dating in your fifties,
Speaker 4: and some of the best women I know are in
Speaker 4: their fifties. Women in their fifties look better than they
Speaker 4: have ever looked in the history of mankind. They look great.
Speaker 4: The three unique challenges, and you can either agree with them,
Speaker 4: disagree with them, or whatever it is. From my perspective
Speaker 4: of talking to a lot of women in their fifties,
Speaker 4: if you want how to date somebody your age, those
Speaker 4: guys still have a large pool of thirties and forties
Speaker 4: to chase around if they want to. If you want
Speaker 4: to date older than your age, the women in their
Speaker 4: fifties have way more energy than the men in their sixties.
Speaker 4: The men in their sixties and seventies tend to poop out.
Speaker 4: The third, and I think the biggest challenges for the
Speaker 4: women in their fifties is there is no group of
Speaker 4: women or men that is more set in their ways
Speaker 4: than women in their fifties. I know what I like,
Speaker 4: I know what I want, I know what I deserve.
Speaker 4: I don't need a man. That mindset at any age
Speaker 4: is going to make it a challenge that is uniquely ingrained.
Speaker 4: It's easier to change a man who's fifty eight than
Speaker 4: it is to change a woman who's fifty eight. Yeah,
Speaker 4: she's a lot more like. I know what I deserve,
Speaker 4: which is good. I know what I want, I know
Speaker 4: what I don't want to and there's these very hard
Speaker 4: and fast rules lists things that make the possibilities I
Speaker 4: think a bit narrowed.
Speaker 5: Okay, I mean, you know I talk about this obviously.
Speaker 5: This is what my podcast is is about the shit
Speaker 5: show dating in your fifties. And I think women today
Speaker 5: in their fifties is way different than ten twenty years
Speaker 5: ago if you were single. And I think women in
Speaker 5: their fifties struggle with dating for various.
Speaker 1: Reasons, hormonal reasons.
Speaker 5: Our body has changed, which makes our you know, we
Speaker 5: don't feel confident sometimes, and you're dealing with a lot
Speaker 5: of times when you're dating in your fifties.
Speaker 1: Just what you said.
Speaker 5: If you were a woman in your fifties and you
Speaker 5: do want to date in your fifties, good luck, because
Speaker 5: the guys in the fifties do you want the thirty
Speaker 5: forty year old? Right, very very true. And for me though,
Speaker 5: you know, I like to date older. So mine is
Speaker 5: dating in their sixties, and I have not run across
Speaker 5: guys that.
Speaker 4: Okay, they want to go to bed at eight o'clock,
Speaker 4: a lot of them, especially where we are, They want
Speaker 4: to golf, they want to poop out. Trust me, I
Speaker 4: don't want to go out till I'm not my sixties,
Speaker 4: but I don't want to go out to two o'clock
Speaker 4: in the morning anymore. The women tend to have a
Speaker 4: second wind that a lot of the men don't have.
Speaker 4: Deep into their fifties. A lot of women have more energy.
Speaker 4: A lot of women do feel better about themselves physically. Again,
Speaker 4: they go through hormonal they go through life changes, but
Speaker 4: they're able to put a face out there that he
Speaker 4: doesn't necessarily have. And a lot of times the man
Speaker 4: is looking to date younger because dating younger makes him
Speaker 4: feel confident again in a way that dating somebody whose
Speaker 4: own age, she can buy her own shit, she's been
Speaker 4: on a trip like this, she's eating dinner at this restaurant.
Speaker 4: For she's a little harder to impress, and so that
Speaker 4: is a little bit harder of a wall for the
Speaker 4: man to break down, and the men are always trying
Speaker 4: to find a crack in the wall.
Speaker 5: Well, I think so, and I think I talk a
Speaker 5: lot about, you know, empowering women being empowered in their fifties.
Speaker 1: So you have like two sides of the fence, correct.
Speaker 5: You have the insecure women in their fifties like I'm
Speaker 5: just done, I'm over it, I don't want to date.
Speaker 5: And when I talk to them, I'm like, well, have
Speaker 5: you ever thought about changing what you're doing? Or do
Speaker 5: you feel like the same hamster wheel is going to
Speaker 5: lead to success? Do you think a guy's just going
Speaker 5: to fall in your lap? So you have to be
Speaker 5: a little proactive. I mean, you can't just be laid
Speaker 5: back and be like, well I haven't met the right guy.
Speaker 5: And I think then the other flip side is you
Speaker 5: have very alpha fifty year old women and men sometimes
Speaker 5: don't know what to.
Speaker 3: Do with that.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: They've ramped up their masculine energy, they've ramped up their independence.
Speaker 4: They ramped up a well, I got rid of a guy.
Speaker 4: I'm out here on my own. Oh but I want
Speaker 4: to go in a romantic setting and he is not
Speaker 4: feeling that. And a lot of the women of age
Speaker 4: in their fifties they're like, I shouldn't have to quote
Speaker 4: unquote train a guy. I shouldn't have to tell him
Speaker 4: what to do. And I'm like, you absolutely should train
Speaker 4: a guy. He wants to be trained. He can be trained.
Speaker 4: He needs to be trained in what you want, like,
Speaker 4: because every woman is different. Some women, and I agree,
Speaker 4: in their fifties still want to be picked up, still
Speaker 4: want to be called up, asked out, picked up their house.
Speaker 4: That's the way they dated back in the twenties. They
Speaker 4: don't have twenty years of oh my god, everybody's crazy,
Speaker 4: they're gonna kill me. They want that. Some women are like,
Speaker 4: you got to be kidding me. Everybody's a psycho or whatever.
Speaker 4: Telling the man this is what I feel like. I
Speaker 4: don't use the word deserve, but if they say this
Speaker 4: is what I want, this is what I need, this
Speaker 4: is what makes me feel good, and this is how
Speaker 4: you can find a space in my world, the guy
Speaker 4: will jump up, however high he's got to jump up
Speaker 4: to get the cheese. If that is set in a
Speaker 4: positive in fashion, A lot of women are just like
Speaker 4: he could tell you can't tell no.
Speaker 5: So I will say one of the things I define is,
Speaker 5: you know, really important a relationship is communication. If you're
Speaker 5: a guy and you're a woman, women, you think he's
Speaker 5: going to reach your mind? No, I mean like you
Speaker 5: do have to say, hey, this is my love language,
Speaker 5: this is what I need now. It doesn't mean he's
Speaker 5: going to be able to do it, but I do
Speaker 5: think you need to be bendable. I don't like the
Speaker 5: word training. I like the word bendable more and evolving
Speaker 5: the way I look at it.
Speaker 1: And I do.
Speaker 5: Find that men in their sixties are very set in
Speaker 5: their ways. I gotta be honest, I don't know about
Speaker 5: training now. Well, he dressed the way you might want
Speaker 5: to maybe, but.
Speaker 4: I think he will. I think if you if, however
Speaker 4: you want him to dress, it's not just how I
Speaker 4: want him to dress for the world to see him.
Speaker 4: And you let him know if you dress this way,
Speaker 4: I want to rip your clothes off. He'll put it
Speaker 4: on a clown suit.
Speaker 1: Nope, guess what they will have a lot of them.
Speaker 4: Well I think that. Then then it's about the information
Speaker 4: because if you ask one hundred men, are they open
Speaker 4: to that? And they're like, it depends on what I'm
Speaker 4: getting out of it. And yeah, if you're just saying
Speaker 4: I want you to wear this with no context and
Speaker 4: know anything, they will change because they will change for
Speaker 4: the right women's situation.
Speaker 5: And like it was an issue and it was like
Speaker 5: a long term dating and he's just found it incredibly offensive, Like,
Speaker 5: why aren't you accepted me the way I am.
Speaker 4: I'm not talking about long term, I'm talking about early on,
Speaker 4: because what the women tend to do is this, They're
Speaker 4: okay with it a certain way. You're out there, you know,
Speaker 4: wearing your Dan Marino jersey to dinner or whatever, and
Speaker 4: then once you feel comfortable enough in the relationship, then
Speaker 4: you decide to make the change. And he's like, she's crazy,
Speaker 4: she changed suddenly. She wanted me to be something that
Speaker 4: I'm not. If it's early on, saying even you know,
Speaker 4: first couple days, you would look amazing in a blue
Speaker 4: suit because you have amazing eyes and it would really
Speaker 4: come out put on the blue suit.
Speaker 3: I like it.
Speaker 4: That is the trae. That is nuancing because once you
Speaker 4: do it three months in, then it says I don't
Speaker 4: like this about you. It's what needs to be different
Speaker 4: about you. When you do it early on, it's wow,
Speaker 4: that would turn me on.
Speaker 5: So I definitely, well, I subscribe to something that you don't,
Speaker 5: which is predating, which we can get into at any time.
Speaker 5: But I believe, well, what is it pre dating? To me,
Speaker 5: it's very simple. If you're meeting people like on social
Speaker 5: app for example Facebook dating app, usually you start off
Speaker 5: with a little texting, not texting, like chatting, whatever it is,
Speaker 5: and then you move on to a little texting and
Speaker 5: I will not go on a date until I've done
Speaker 5: a FaceTime And I wonder why. And this is men
Speaker 5: and women. They're both in the wrong about this. I
Speaker 5: don't know the percentage. Maybe you do. How many have
Speaker 5: fake old pictures and they lie about their age and
Speaker 5: it's so annoying because like people, we could see the
Speaker 5: picture posts from twenty nineteen.
Speaker 4: That is so you don't really need the conversation, you
Speaker 4: just need some verification this is what they look like.
Speaker 5: I want to know for real that they are putting
Speaker 5: forth because if you start a relationship on a lie.
Speaker 1: Where's it going to go from there?
Speaker 4: What if it's not a lie? What if it's just
Speaker 4: a picture that doesn't quite make them look? What if?
Speaker 4: What if she just doesn't have a picture from the
Speaker 4: waist down? What if she just doesn't or hate What
Speaker 4: if you just don't have that in one of your pictures.
Speaker 4: I don't think face time is gonna help that either.
Speaker 1: No, no, but I will tell you.
Speaker 5: You know, I just had a conversation with somebody last
Speaker 5: night who's my age, but dating with a ten year
Speaker 5: old so different. She definitely has some different obstacles and
Speaker 5: most of us, and part of what we were talking about,
Speaker 5: she's like, I just wanted to meet a guy that
Speaker 5: I'm hot for.
Speaker 1: I want to jump and run away. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: what turns me on is not.
Speaker 5: Just the physical that at this age, at this time,
Speaker 5: with my experience, there's so much more than you could
Speaker 5: actually find chemistry past the first day. Sometimes it's a
Speaker 5: mental connection.
Speaker 4: I agree. Or you're nervous, but you know you're also
Speaker 4: not tired chasing around a ten year old. Maybe she
Speaker 4: just wants to get her bones jumped. You know, she
Speaker 4: might have different needs. But when you if you're saying
Speaker 4: that I really just need some verification and validation of
Speaker 4: what this person looks like physically, that's fine. If you're
Speaker 4: saying I need to have a conversation with them, and
Speaker 4: it feels to me like a in an interview, I
Speaker 4: think that that doesn't tell you anything about that person
Speaker 4: other than they may or may not be good at FaceTime.
Speaker 1: Well I'll tell you one time. Mm hmm.
Speaker 5: So like this one guy that seems really good and
Speaker 5: we do FaceTime and he had like them also doing
Speaker 5: needs all kind of I'm like done, not happening, Like
Speaker 5: I just you know what, everything was good leading up.
Speaker 4: To that, and I get it, I know. But then
Speaker 4: you're letting one red flag or one thing you don't
Speaker 4: like get in the way of the possibilities that if
Speaker 4: you met and maybe in real life he doesn't sound
Speaker 4: that way, or maybe he has so many other attributes
Speaker 4: that you would forget about that. I think you you
Speaker 4: really don't know if you're going to click with somebody
Speaker 4: until you are face to face. So I think you're
Speaker 4: you might be ruling in some people, but I think
Speaker 4: if you do that, you're ruling out a lot of
Speaker 4: people that if you met them, maybe they're not good
Speaker 4: on the phone because we don't talk on the phone
Speaker 4: as much. It's a skill, it's a muscle. I can't
Speaker 4: I don't want to talk on the phone anybody.
Speaker 5: But again, so like I'll be dating somebody now and
Speaker 5: you know what, he's honest.
Speaker 1: I'm not a good communicator. I don't like talking on
Speaker 1: the phone. Not a good text. Just be honest so
Speaker 1: people don't take it the wrong way.
Speaker 4: I'd be like I have an android. I don't even
Speaker 4: have face time.
Speaker 1: Sorry, no, though, like I bet my own rules.
Speaker 5: Don't misunderstand because if I get a good vibe and
Speaker 5: you know, maybe I met him out or all of
Speaker 5: a sudden, I don't need that. But but like I
Speaker 5: definitely want to know more than a just a high
Speaker 5: on a on a dating app and hey, can I
Speaker 5: take you off for drinks that we didn't.
Speaker 4: Used to have a whole lot more to go on
Speaker 4: and we'd see somebody we were kind of drunk and
Speaker 4: it was loud in a bar and let's go out
Speaker 4: and then you went out.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but that's chemistry got to lead. Now, it's not
Speaker 5: chemistry leading.
Speaker 4: Any I don't know if it's chemistry, it's alcohol or
Speaker 4: it's wow, she's hot. You know, I've met a lot
Speaker 4: of people that I met in a bar and then
Speaker 4: I asked him out, and I was like, it's the
Speaker 4: same thing, Like, oh, that's not what I remember. Her
Speaker 4: pictures in my brain were different because of my alcohol
Speaker 4: or vice versa. I met a girl once at a
Speaker 4: Halloween party. I thought she was the hottest thing ever
Speaker 4: in her Cruel a Deville costume. And then I asked
Speaker 4: her out and then I picked her up, and I'm like,
Speaker 4: where's the costume? She looked so much better in the
Speaker 4: costume that I was. That's not her fault. That was
Speaker 4: my weird thing. But I'm like a lot of people
Speaker 4: look better on Halloween. A lot of people's a little
Speaker 4: sexier and whatever. The makeup was better and a lot
Speaker 4: of people did. I was like, that's not her fault,
Speaker 4: that's just my weirdness. Like she was perfectly lovely and fine,
Speaker 4: but I was like, she doesn't look as good as
Speaker 4: she looked that night, right, that's not good either. Like,
Speaker 4: I think we got to give everybody a shot. I
Speaker 4: think we got to work through the awkwardness and a
Speaker 4: lot of things to that end. Way too many people,
Speaker 4: especially as we get older. If we are not fee
Speaker 4: because we have had those magical dates and we've had
Speaker 4: those magical experiences, and if we're not feeling the way
Speaker 4: we know it is possible in the first fifteen minutes,
Speaker 4: we pull the parachute and we're out of there for
Speaker 4: just working through the ick till we can get to
Speaker 4: that place. When you're twenty three, you know you're not
Speaker 4: dating that much anyway. You're going to barge're hook it
Speaker 4: up or whatever, and so you don't have this memory
Speaker 4: bank of what a good date should feel like. And
Speaker 4: so now when you're in your forties and fifties and sixties,
Speaker 4: you're like, I know what my best dates have felt
Speaker 4: like and this isn't that. That doesn't mean the relationship couldn't.
Speaker 5: Se So do you know statistically what when men and
Speaker 5: women want in dating in their fifties, there is actually like,
Speaker 5: are three things Companionship?
Speaker 4: Yes, is this from men or women? Is the same list?
Speaker 1: Uh uh?
Speaker 4: Sex?
Speaker 1: That was not on the list.
Speaker 4: I don't know, stimulation.
Speaker 5: So it's love, companions, love you, and looking for somebody
Speaker 5: to go through the rest of their life on a journey.
Speaker 5: Those are the three things that people men and women Statistically,
Speaker 5: most look for in a partner after fifty because you've
Speaker 5: moved on to a different stage. If you've had kids,
Speaker 5: you're done, sir, you're an empty nester. And men upper
Speaker 5: fifties sixties, they're heading towards retirement if they're not.
Speaker 4: So where's the room for magic in that equation? None
Speaker 4: of those three things sound terribly fireworky Oh, I agree
Speaker 4: with you. I think those probably are. I think the
Speaker 4: people who want that are like I don't believe in
Speaker 4: it anymore because a lot of people, once you get
Speaker 4: I've never been married, so the fantasy of happily ever
Speaker 4: after still exists for me.
Speaker 1: Everybody define happily ever after them for.
Speaker 4: You that there's that once we get married and we
Speaker 4: say I do, it's happily ever after. There's no end date,
Speaker 4: so you want to get married still, I still am
Speaker 4: open to the possibility of married because it hasn't been spoiled.
Speaker 4: To me. Its the bubble asm averse. The people who
Speaker 4: have gotten divorced or God forbid, widow or widower that
Speaker 4: didn't happen, so they're a lot less likely to jump
Speaker 4: into the fairy tale that they had in their mind
Speaker 4: as people who've never been married. We all have that. Yeah,
Speaker 4: So anyway, we're gonna agree and disagree with a lot
Speaker 4: more things. I gotta take a quick break because we've
Speaker 4: got to pay for the fairy tale around here. I'm
Speaker 4: with the cole Channas. She's from fifties AF. We will
Speaker 4: be back right after this, and we are back forgive
Speaker 4: the the background noise. People. It's booming here in Florida.
Speaker 4: They're building things.
Speaker 1: That's my unit.
Speaker 4: There's also you gotta be careful here. This is like
Speaker 4: Jurassic Park. There's like all sorts of critters at best
Speaker 4: critters crawling around here. So how do you bring that
Speaker 4: back in your fifties? How do you tell your your
Speaker 4: friends or women to still believe in not necessarily the
Speaker 4: fairy tale, but magic.
Speaker 5: Well, I think if first and foremost you have to
Speaker 5: work on yourself. You cannot fall in love until you
Speaker 5: love yourself, honestly, because most women in our fifties, if
Speaker 5: we're single, it is because for the predominantly we're either
Speaker 5: divorce or a widow. Yeah, So until you really can
Speaker 5: embrace and feel confident and love yourself, you're not gonna
Speaker 5: have a healthy dating life. So you have to do
Speaker 5: those steps. You can't avoid it, and that's that hamster
Speaker 5: wheel I talk about it.
Speaker 4: You can't still be angry at your ex. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 4: so much of that.
Speaker 5: I don't believe in holding onto anger, but yeah, yeah no,
Speaker 5: and it is part of like therapy, go for it right.
Speaker 5: And here's another thing. What women do make a mistake
Speaker 5: along the lines what you were saying is if they
Speaker 5: had a horrible breakup and they start meeting guy and
Speaker 5: he does one thing, one minuche.
Speaker 4: Thing reminds me of my third husband, and it's like.
Speaker 5: Come out of here because they haven't done the work
Speaker 5: to get over that. And so that person might have
Speaker 5: been really good for them, but because they it was
Speaker 5: a trigger that they haven't worked through the longer.
Speaker 4: So what is the first step to do in the work,
Speaker 4: Like not everybody can want or feels comfortable doing to
Speaker 4: afford you know, threehun and fifty dollars hour therapy? Is
Speaker 4: there something that somebody can do? Is it asking yourself
Speaker 4: a bunch of questions as is saying what was my
Speaker 4: role in my relationship? Saying what is it?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 5: You know, you know what I think is a really
Speaker 5: good thing women leaning on women.
Speaker 1: I'm speaking in terms of women.
Speaker 5: So like, there's this I'm plugging a great app called meetup.
Speaker 1: And when I first.
Speaker 5: Moved within Foca from west to east, I didn't know anybody.
Speaker 5: So I created my group by five hundred women for
Speaker 5: right now. So you know what, They're not all secure,
Speaker 5: but they get to talk about it. They get to
Speaker 5: learn from each other. Oh try this, try meditation, Let's
Speaker 5: go to the beach and do this. And together as
Speaker 5: a sisterhood, they sometimes are helped having each other build
Speaker 5: their way up and calling each other out.
Speaker 4: Totally agree. There is such a value in being social again,
Speaker 4: and that can be around the people of the same sex,
Speaker 4: it can be people the opposite sective, be whatever. A
Speaker 4: lot of people once the relationship breaks up, whether it's
Speaker 4: a marriage or a boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever, they retreat into
Speaker 4: the solace and the solitariness of their home. I am
Speaker 4: going to binge Netflix every I don't want to go
Speaker 4: out on Friday night. It's going to remind me of
Speaker 4: this or whatever. And then days, weeks, months, years go by.
Speaker 4: That becomes your new normal and you have forgotten how
Speaker 4: to interact with society, much less people of the opposite sex.
Speaker 4: It breaks down your confidence it breaks down your social skills,
Speaker 4: makes it so much harder, so much.
Speaker 5: But I do think they're entitled to a morning let's
Speaker 5: call it. It's like a morning period for sure. And I
Speaker 5: know personally as a widow, after six months being in
Speaker 5: the bed, I just finally lift the covers and I said,
Speaker 5: you know what, Nicole, get your shit together or if
Speaker 5: you don't do it, no one else is going to
Speaker 5: do it.
Speaker 1: And it was a to your journey for me.
Speaker 4: I've noticed that you bring up the widow thing, and
Speaker 4: this is a big part of the Golden Bachelor. A
Speaker 4: lot of times the widow or widower is ready to
Speaker 4: date before the people are comfortable dating them. How do
Speaker 4: you let the people know that it is it's I'm
Speaker 4: okay to date. I'm not gonna I'm not to say
Speaker 4: this is a bad thing, burst into tears and everything,
Speaker 4: like how do you let possible suitors know, not that
Speaker 4: it's so far in your past you don't even think
Speaker 4: about it, but how do you create that balance?
Speaker 5: That's a really good question, and I think honesty and
Speaker 5: communication and don't again, don't let the other whether there's
Speaker 5: a male or a female, assume because you know what
Speaker 5: I was lucky. My first boyfriend was so honest and
Speaker 5: understanding and on my journey. But definitely I have had
Speaker 5: people approach me like kid gloves and I'm way out
Speaker 5: already at this.
Speaker 4: Point, I know, because you don't even know to bring
Speaker 4: it up, right.
Speaker 1: Like it's like, you know, what if I bring it up,
Speaker 1: that's the golden door.
Speaker 5: I've just said it. But again, I think you don't
Speaker 5: have to go to therapy. But like I just learned
Speaker 5: last night, I didn't do any of these like groups
Speaker 5: for widows or grieving stuff. I was like, I don't
Speaker 5: want to be more depressed. So somebody told me about
Speaker 5: a group that actually is just a bunch of widows,
Speaker 5: but it's uplifting and fun.
Speaker 1: Now that's a fun group to be a part of.
Speaker 5: Right, But honestly, like, I don't need to be sitting
Speaker 5: around and be reminded why I'm a widow and what
Speaker 5: I went through every day because I'm not healing.
Speaker 1: You got to get out there, like you said, and socialized.
Speaker 5: Learn how to be out there again, learn how to
Speaker 5: feel good about your body and your presence because a
Speaker 5: lot of women are in the menopause stage at that point,
Speaker 5: and that's really challenging.
Speaker 4: So that's a really good point, and that's funny. That's
Speaker 4: the next thing I was gonna bring up. Obviously, I
Speaker 4: think and I've said, the women look better than ever,
Speaker 4: they have more ways to look better than ever. How
Speaker 4: do you get somebody who maybe she's just been raising
Speaker 4: your kids for twenty years, an unhappy relationship, to suddenly
Speaker 4: take the step of oh my god, I got to
Speaker 4: compete with that, Especially in a place like South Florida
Speaker 4: where people aren't wearing nearly as much clothing. You can't
Speaker 4: hide behind your wear. How do you get her to
Speaker 4: find confidence when it's a muscle she hasn't used in
Speaker 4: twenty years.
Speaker 5: I think using the tools that are out there. Like yet,
Speaker 5: like you said, not everybody can afford therapy and I
Speaker 5: got that for plastic surgery or plastive surgery, or they
Speaker 5: can't afford even to join a gym. Maybe you know,
Speaker 5: and again that menopause, you know that that adds the insecurity.
Speaker 1: Of starting out there.
Speaker 5: So I really think if women join in groups with
Speaker 5: like minded people, a they're gonna meet girlfriends, be they
Speaker 5: might meet a guy because they're doing things they're leading
Speaker 5: with what their interest is. So if people sometimes leave
Speaker 5: with their interests that chemistry and that bond and opportunity
Speaker 5: might happen.
Speaker 4: I think you're trying to before you find a guy.
Speaker 4: I think you gotta find your smile again. Great, and
Speaker 4: you gotta find ways that we'll bring a smile back.
Speaker 4: That's going to change your soul and your spirit. You know,
Speaker 4: you're not even right away going to find the best
Speaker 4: version of yourself. You're trying to find the next version
Speaker 4: of yourself. And if that's the baby step you need
Speaker 4: to take to feel just a little bit better, yeh,
Speaker 4: and have a little bit better approach and attitude and
Speaker 4: open it up to people around you so you're not
Speaker 4: just been like, oh my god, everybody sucks. Dating is
Speaker 4: going to be hard, this city's the wrong place for me,
Speaker 4: and on and on and on. You have no hope,
Speaker 4: no you.
Speaker 5: And to answer your question, it's step by step, right.
Speaker 5: Any coach will tell you this. License It doesn't happen overnight.
Speaker 5: It's step by step. And I think you nailed it.
Speaker 5: Finding your smile. Let's face it, laughter is like the
Speaker 5: healthiest thing in life. Yeah, and you have to find
Speaker 5: your smile.
Speaker 4: You do, and I think you have to start with
Speaker 4: finding it by leaving your house. Yes, you don't have
Speaker 4: to dive into the middle of a you know, Yankee
Speaker 4: stadium and be around fifty thousand people. But if you
Speaker 4: go for a walk and you see the stimuli and
Speaker 4: you start to notice things again, and like I say,
Speaker 4: people notice you, you notice you back, you become engaged
Speaker 4: the answers. And that's why this was such a terrible
Speaker 4: thing for our society to lock ourselves down for a
Speaker 4: long long time and shut ourselves off from the world.
Speaker 4: You know, that created a lot of bad habits. I'm
Speaker 4: gonna have the food brought to me, I'm gonna have
Speaker 4: a shop, I'm gonna have Amazon delivered to me. I'm
Speaker 4: gonna binge hours and hours of shows on a weekend.
Speaker 4: So I'm not gonna do it. Took us out of
Speaker 4: normal quote unquote patterns of interaction that led to certain habits,
Speaker 4: that led to certain possibilities, They could lead to certain relationships.
Speaker 5: But also here's the thing, and I talk about this.
Speaker 5: Sometimes women in their fifties are looking present and forward, right,
Speaker 5: they lost who they were in their twenties, thirties and forties.
Speaker 5: They need to go back and go, Oh, I was hot,
Speaker 5: I had it together. I can get that mojo back
Speaker 5: they forgot at one point before they were married. Let's
Speaker 5: just say for years or into partnership, for years that
Speaker 5: they were good and confident in data. And I think
Speaker 5: you need to take a step back and remember that
Speaker 5: part of you that was good like that and go, okay,
Speaker 5: I want to be like that again.
Speaker 1: What can I do?
Speaker 4: You're right, you don't need to remember the way you looked,
Speaker 4: but you need to remember the way you felt and
Speaker 4: figure out how did I get to that point? Because
Speaker 4: there's a good chance even on your wedding day wasn't
Speaker 4: the best you've ever looked, but you felt the best
Speaker 4: you've ever felt. And so you have to think, what
Speaker 4: were the things that I did to feel a certain
Speaker 4: way and to feel a certain way around me, and
Speaker 4: to enjoy somebody thinking I look great? Take the compliment?
Speaker 5: Yeah, oh, take the couplet. You know what, that's not
Speaker 5: always easy for a woman sometimes.
Speaker 4: I know, I don't know why give me the compliments?
Speaker 4: We don't get them. Why is it so hard for
Speaker 4: a woman to a compliment?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I know with me, I get a
Speaker 1: little bashful.
Speaker 5: I do even me, like if somebody says, oh, you're
Speaker 5: just like, oh, thanks, and the first thing we do,
Speaker 5: and I'll tell you why women have been are historically
Speaker 5: the hardest on each other.
Speaker 4: Yes, okay, so it's.
Speaker 1: Not the men.
Speaker 5: So girl and girl cry like say, hey, what's going
Speaker 5: on there? You know, and you need to fix that?
Speaker 5: Or so like you feel insecure sometimes if this one
Speaker 5: person is like at a higher level and you're like, oh,
Speaker 5: I don't look like that, and you start getting insecure.
Speaker 5: So along comes somebody that compliments. You're like, in your mind,
Speaker 5: you're thinking that person who looked so good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not like that.
Speaker 5: So it's like, oh, it's just hard, especially if a
Speaker 5: woman is just coming out.
Speaker 1: Of divorce or being a widow. They haven't had it.
Speaker 4: Maybe you're right and women are so hard. I see.
Speaker 4: You know, certain celebrities will appear that you haven't seen
Speaker 4: in a while, and you see a bunch of commentary
Speaker 4: on social media like, oh my god, she looks like shit,
Speaker 4: Oh my god, what does she do to her lips?
Speaker 4: Oh my god. It's almost always women and gay men.
Speaker 4: It's almost never straight man. They're just like, I don't
Speaker 4: get she looks fine, she looks the same. We don't
Speaker 4: notice it that sisterhood is not nearly as supportive as
Speaker 4: women think they are, because a lot of women are like,
Speaker 4: it's hard enough in my fifties. I don't want that
Speaker 4: bitch over there to get ahead of me. It's you know,
Speaker 4: life is competitive. Men are not exactly great with each
Speaker 4: other either, But a lot of times men tune the
Speaker 4: other guys out. They don't really care. The women are
Speaker 4: always looking at the other they quote unute the competition
Speaker 4: at both sides of their eyes all of the time.
Speaker 4: It makes it a challenge when you do not feel supported.
Speaker 5: And it is I mean, I'm definitely a person that
Speaker 5: you know is in a wallflower and you know when
Speaker 5: I go out with a bunch of women and it's
Speaker 5: like some will look at it as being intimidated by me.
Speaker 5: And someone will be like, Okay, what can I learn
Speaker 5: from Nicole and embrace my work?
Speaker 4: And you shouldn't have to dial it back for their
Speaker 4: cause they need to keep up, they need they need
Speaker 4: to benefit from your energy. You're doing a lot of
Speaker 4: if you're out with six women, you're doing a lot
Speaker 4: of the heavy lifting. You're bringing the energy, you're stimulating,
Speaker 4: the dialogue, you're getting the attention makes your life easier.
Speaker 5: I did that once. I had like a bunch of
Speaker 5: women at a happy hour. I drummed up at a
Speaker 5: famous pickup place here in Boca, and they're all huddled.
Speaker 1: In a corner.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't like a school day.
Speaker 1: I go, there's guys all around this bart. What do
Speaker 1: you win? You know, it's hard for guys to walk
Speaker 1: up to a group.
Speaker 4: Of women, right There are so many wine bars where
Speaker 4: eight women will sit around and talk about their ex
Speaker 4: husbands and not they don't feel them approachable. It's hard
Speaker 4: to crack that shell.
Speaker 1: So my thing is I did in this particular day.
Speaker 5: I took a few that were willing, and they were
Speaker 5: with me, and I just went and introduced, Hi, my
Speaker 5: name is Nicole, and this is so and so. And
Speaker 5: we went around that whole bar introducing, and I wound
Speaker 5: up actually organically meeting somebody. But they were like you
Speaker 5: could see them starting to smile, like they weren't just
Speaker 5: sitting in that corner, Like, why isn't anybody coming up
Speaker 5: to me? Well, you know what, that's the one of
Speaker 5: the first steps.
Speaker 1: The other thing out there.
Speaker 4: Women do need to dial back their girl packs. Though
Speaker 4: the number that you should go out in is Three.
Speaker 4: If you go out with you and your friend, he
Speaker 4: thinks she's not gonna leave her friend. That's gonna be
Speaker 4: too hard. Four then I'm diving to some pack and
Speaker 4: they have their own thing. Three you can get one
Speaker 4: and the two can the other two can get home together.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Use the number one and I still
Speaker 1: get you.
Speaker 4: Know that's different. But then your friend is left alone.
Speaker 4: That's not good for her. Well, I'm talking about two
Speaker 4: single girls going out. It's rough. I'm just looking from
Speaker 4: the guy's perspective. He's doing the calculation. He's always looking
Speaker 4: for a group of three. So that's your number day.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that that's.
Speaker 4: What you're looking at all Right. The best thing about
Speaker 4: being single in your fifties is what.
Speaker 1: You don't have to answer to anyone.
Speaker 4: That's a good I know that is true.
Speaker 5: Like I literally like I just closed yesterday on a
Speaker 5: condo and I'm like so proud of that accomplishment. And
Speaker 5: I said, you know what, this is the first house
Speaker 5: that I don't have to do with kids of mine.
Speaker 5: This is the first house I don't have to do
Speaker 5: with a man, a husband in mine. This is all me,
Speaker 5: you doing it? Yeah, and that is so empowering, you know,
Speaker 5: very empowering.
Speaker 4: And your best piece of advice to I'll just say
Speaker 4: attract possibilities is what if you're a woman looking to
Speaker 4: a interest from men, what is the one thing that
Speaker 4: you think they're all capable of doing?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 5: I will tell you men want confidence. They love a
Speaker 5: woman with confidence. So that journey, whatever it is that
Speaker 5: you have to go on, whether it's therapy, meditation, meeting
Speaker 5: other women or support groups, whatever works for you to
Speaker 5: gain that confidence or remember who you used to be,
Speaker 5: because that's a lot of the hurdle is what it
Speaker 5: I used to be? How what is my definition? If
Speaker 5: I'm not mom and a wife or a wife or
Speaker 5: a partner. They lost themselves so they have to go
Speaker 5: on a journey to find themselves again. And I think
Speaker 5: by doing that, men are really attracted. Look, I actually asked,
Speaker 5: this is a survey I did. Are men more attracted
Speaker 5: here in Bocas especially? Men can have some deep pockets?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 1: So I said, you.
Speaker 5: Know, are they more attracted to a confident woman that
Speaker 5: has their shit together or the wounded bird?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: And you know the wounded bird, that's a lot of game.
Speaker 5: You want to know why, because she looks up to
Speaker 5: him like she's God.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and the woman woundedbird is one step of a
Speaker 4: basket case. So Woundedberg's actually okay, yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, No, it doesn't mean she's a bastcation means she's
Speaker 5: like she'll accept anything because she's clinging and wants anything.
Speaker 5: Where a woman that has a shit together that feels
Speaker 5: confident is you know, we're bendable, or we should be bendable.
Speaker 5: Everybody should be bendable. But you know, men find that attractive.
Speaker 5: Having confidence.
Speaker 4: You need to figure out a way to sort of
Speaker 4: upgrade from hot mess to beautiful disaster. And that means
Speaker 4: that most of the shit is getting together. But whatever
Speaker 4: that shit is, I own it and I don't blame
Speaker 4: anybody for it. And if you want to be a
Speaker 4: part of it, bring it on.
Speaker 5: Hey, And this doesn't you know, I want to clarify,
Speaker 5: especially with women. Women in their fifties are very caught
Speaker 5: up about their body image and how they feel and look.
Speaker 5: And you know what, men aren't necessarily just that's in
Speaker 5: their sixties. They get some se pass that they want
Speaker 5: the person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know what we're all not. We all
Speaker 1: have our flaws.
Speaker 4: We think you look great. I'm gonna let you plug
Speaker 4: the podcast in a minute, but in the interest of time,
Speaker 4: this is your first time on the podcast. We play
Speaker 4: something called worst date or first date. So you either
Speaker 4: have to give us the worst date you've ever been on.
Speaker 1: Wait, is it clean?
Speaker 4: Or it could be whatever you want. It doesn't have
Speaker 4: to be clean, it's whatever you think is entertaining first. No,
Speaker 4: it can be the worst date you've ever been on
Speaker 4: or the greatest first date you've ever been on. Your choice.
Speaker 5: Hmm, okay, the worst. I'm gonna go with worst. So
Speaker 5: we already had like one or two dates. You know
Speaker 5: this guy and he's like, hey, I was in California.
Speaker 5: If you're in California, go into Vegas is no big deal, okay.
Speaker 5: And he's like, hey, you want to come meet me
Speaker 5: in Vegas.
Speaker 1: I'm like, sure, why not?
Speaker 5: I had nothing else going on, and we were He
Speaker 5: was there with his car, so I was flying there
Speaker 5: and we're supposed to drive back. So we've already gotten
Speaker 5: to know his show. We were intimate kind of a
Speaker 5: few times, so it was.
Speaker 1: More than a couple of times.
Speaker 5: And we go out nightclub, have great time, time to
Speaker 5: go back to the room ready for getting our sexyon,
Speaker 5: and he has this bag that he literally of toys,
Speaker 5: freaking pulls out and like the next thing I know,
Speaker 5: He's pulling.
Speaker 1: Out a full on strap on.
Speaker 5: And I'm looking like, hey, I'm I'm an open soul
Speaker 5: all about fantasies.
Speaker 4: But I was like, oh, hell no, look quick here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I dipped out. I took a plane home.
Speaker 4: Oh not even the ride home. No, So you didn't
Speaker 4: predate that one. Well, that wouldn't come up. It didn't.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: That wouldn't come up.
Speaker 1: It didn't come We had already sleeping together.
Speaker 4: He felt comfortable enough to let his freak fly and listen.
Speaker 5: I'm an advocate onf podcasts and my bedroom confessionals. You
Speaker 5: gotta have your fantasies and fill them. It's one life,
Speaker 5: it's a movie, and your your own movie star.
Speaker 4: Yeap, Just wasn't you weren't feeling it? You weren't feeling
Speaker 4: your room at the MGM Grand or whatever. My worst
Speaker 4: day of first days. Well, the listeners know I've talked about.
Speaker 4: You got to go back and listen to four hundred episodes.
Speaker 4: You'll find it. It's in there need only Haystack tell
Speaker 4: everybody where they can find you.
Speaker 5: Well, thank you first of all for having me on
Speaker 5: fiftiesafpodcast dot com and we're on YouTube and wherever you
Speaker 5: listen to podcasts. But I do a little something with
Speaker 5: a little huzhu called Bedroom Confessionals, which you could find
Speaker 5: on my website.
Speaker 1: And uh they get a little saucy just.
Speaker 4: Like me, little saucy. Uh, thank you for doing this.
Speaker 4: Hope this wasn't too painful as far as US and
Speaker 4: fifties AF like, share, follow, Please review this podcast and
Speaker 4: that podcast. Your reviews, even after ten years of doing this,
Speaker 4: mean a lot in the podcasting ecosystem. Shoot us an
Speaker 4: email Great Love Debate at gmail dot com if you've
Speaker 4: got question, comments, thoughts, or anything else. We have a
Speaker 4: listener letter episode coming up because as always at the
Speaker 4: Great Love Debate, we never stopped making love.
Speaker 2: To see you next time, the Great Love Debate. It's
Speaker 2: the Great Love Debate.
Speaker 3: The Great Love Debate. It's a Great Love Debate.