WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:04.759 You're listening to everything out there with your host Steve Stockton. 2 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:19.920 Hello friends, Hello, hello once again, and welcome to everything 3 00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:22.640 out there on the Clyde Lewis Grounds. He wrote Radio Network, 4 00:00:22.719 --> 00:00:26.600 I'm your host, Steve Stalktor. Welcome in tonight, joining me 5 00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:29.960 on the phone. Friend of mine for many years. You 6 00:00:30.039 --> 00:00:32.799 might know her from her work on Caravan of Lore 7 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:36.240 or some of the scripts she wrote and narrated for 8 00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:39.520 me over on my thirteen Past Midnight YouTube channel. Or 9 00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:43.320 you might know her from her work with Seth Breedlove's 10 00:00:44.039 --> 00:00:48.359 Small Town Monsters. And she's also a classics professor at 11 00:00:48.439 --> 00:00:52.600 Kent State University. Welcome Heather Moser, Heather, come on in. 12 00:00:53.719 --> 00:00:56.240 Hi, Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here. 13 00:00:56.640 --> 00:00:58.640 Yeah. Nice to have you here on the phone with 14 00:00:58.719 --> 00:01:01.280 us tonight. So what's going on in your world? I 15 00:01:01.280 --> 00:01:03.320 haven't seen you in I've probably been over a year. 16 00:01:04.439 --> 00:01:06.640 You and Seth showed up in New Mexico in the 17 00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:09.599 Four Corners area and filmed me for documentary. We're working 18 00:01:09.599 --> 00:01:13.599 on what's happened since that transpired? Yeah? 19 00:01:13.680 --> 00:01:15.239 Yeah, we showed up and we kidnapped you for a 20 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:20.159 little bit so that you could tell us some stories. Well, 21 00:01:20.239 --> 00:01:23.799 let's see, that does seem like a long time ago. 22 00:01:24.040 --> 00:01:29.799 We have been filming other films, filming other movies and 23 00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:36.840 the one that you're in American Werewolves too, which it 24 00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:38.319 was kind of it should have been out by now, 25 00:01:38.359 --> 00:01:40.200 but then we had an issue with our distributor, so 26 00:01:40.239 --> 00:01:42.159 it's kind of been put on the back burner. It 27 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:46.719 should be coming out, though very soon. I don't think 28 00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:48.879 I'm allowed to say yet, but we have an official 29 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:52.319 date now, so it'll be within it'll be within the month. 30 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:56.359 I'm looking forward to that. I've been expecting my copy 31 00:01:56.359 --> 00:01:58.439 in the mail just any time. I'm anxious to see 32 00:01:58.439 --> 00:02:01.319 how it turned out. But it was great meeting Seth 33 00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:03.280 and the crew and then getting to meet you in 34 00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:04.120 person finally. 35 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:09.439 Yes, yes, it was great to finally meet you. Let's see, 36 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:11.719 we went to British Columbia and we filmed there for 37 00:02:13.240 --> 00:02:17.000 on the trail of Bigfoot the Origin, So we've done that. 38 00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:19.039 Right now, we're in the midst of and this is 39 00:02:19.039 --> 00:02:21.560 about the only thing that has my brain occupied at 40 00:02:21.560 --> 00:02:24.520 the moment. We're in the midst of our Kickstarter and 41 00:02:24.879 --> 00:02:30.199 that takes up all of February for us, So that's 42 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:32.159 the biggest thing right now, trying to get our kickstarter 43 00:02:33.479 --> 00:02:36.080 funded as much as possible and that'll help get us 44 00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:36.599 through the year. 45 00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:40.680 Yeah, and I saw the notification on Facebook. I'll put 46 00:02:40.680 --> 00:02:43.560 a link to that in the show notes for the 47 00:02:43.879 --> 00:02:48.240 kickstarter there and everybody go pledge or support to that. 48 00:02:48.280 --> 00:02:50.800 It's a great franchise they've got going there out How 49 00:02:50.800 --> 00:02:52.800 many are they up to now with a small town 50 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:55.120 Monsters series? Uh? 51 00:02:56.039 --> 00:02:57.159 How many movies? You mean? 52 00:02:57.719 --> 00:02:57.919 Yeah? 53 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:01.479 Oh my goodness, Well, I don't know, it's got to 54 00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:03.439 be close to twenty at this point, if not more. 55 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:05.840 I don't have the number off the top of my head, 56 00:03:05.879 --> 00:03:07.360 but it's a lot. 57 00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:11.159 Yeah, I know it's out there. And then there's a 58 00:03:11.199 --> 00:03:13.680 great great cannon have worked there. I've only seen a 59 00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:16.479 few of them, but they are all just incredible movies 60 00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:19.280 and really looking forward to see the one that I'm 61 00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:22.280 in now. Is that going to be premiering like at 62 00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:25.280 some film festivals and things like that, or some conferences, 63 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:28.560 paranormal conferences or are you allowed to say so? 64 00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:34.280 American Werewolves two did actually premiere last ball in Kentucky 65 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:38.520 to an audience and it was very well received, But 66 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:41.360 as of right now, it's not scheduled for any premieres. 67 00:03:41.400 --> 00:03:45.000 Now, Okay, that's still good to hear though. At least 68 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:47.039 it's out there, and it did get good reception and 69 00:03:47.439 --> 00:03:49.759 hopefully nobody laughed at my part too hard. 70 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:53.360 Absolutely not. And our Kickstarter backers they've had access to 71 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:56.199 it so and it's gotten good reviews from them as well. 72 00:03:56.240 --> 00:03:58.560 So that's the other bonus of kickstarter backing is that 73 00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:01.639 you get access to films, even if we have issues 74 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:04.759 with the distributor, you get access to the films early. 75 00:04:04.840 --> 00:04:07.479 So yeah, and I've worked some in film and getting 76 00:04:07.479 --> 00:04:10.560 that coverage right away to see how it plays, that's 77 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:15.680 just invaluable. Think of those people as your test audience 78 00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:17.000 if you will. 79 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:19.439 Yep, definitely. 80 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:23.759 So let's just start at the beginning here. Like I said, 81 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:27.519 you wrote and narrated some things for me over on 82 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:31.079 my thirteen Past Midnight channel, which is still on hiatus. 83 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:33.839 I'm going to be bringing it back, but I'm back 84 00:04:33.879 --> 00:04:36.720 on Missing Persons and Mysteries. I now own that channel, 85 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:39.240 so that's getting a lot of my time and attention. 86 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:43.920 Just under two hundred and seventy five thousand subscribers over there, 87 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:47.800 and then in the interim, I started among the missing, 88 00:04:47.879 --> 00:04:49.800 and I've gotten I think one hundred and four k, 89 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:52.360 hundred and five k over there now. So I've been 90 00:04:52.399 --> 00:04:55.600 a busy guy that just published my twentieth book this 91 00:04:55.680 --> 00:04:57.839 last year, if you count one that Cisco and I 92 00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:00.279 co wrote, and had a couple other co You're just 93 00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:03.600 in there on some of these recent ones. But yeah, 94 00:05:03.879 --> 00:05:06.600 uh no, moss growing under this rolling. 95 00:05:06.360 --> 00:05:09.720 Stone and that's good. That's good. 96 00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:14.040 Well, thank you. But what garnered your interest in the paranormal? 97 00:05:14.040 --> 00:05:16.000 Did it start like so many of us in early 98 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:18.480 childhood or were you a light blimmer when it came 99 00:05:18.519 --> 00:05:21.480 to all things dark and scary or what's your personal story. 100 00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:26.759 Oh, it definitely started wheneber I was young. It's very 101 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:30.839 very much tied to what was on TV at a 102 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:33.600 very young age, unsolved mysteries with something that was on 103 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:38.720 the TV every week, and that garnered my attention, almost 104 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:42.920 like a morbid curiosity to a certain extent. I remember 105 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:47.720 very vividly an episode about the Yeti and being afraid 106 00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:52.160 of the Yeti as a result of that. Also, spontaneous 107 00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:55.160 human combustion was one of the episodes, and I had 108 00:05:55.160 --> 00:05:57.560 this unrealistic fear that that was going to be how 109 00:05:57.560 --> 00:06:00.600 I'd meet my demise at some point in my life, hope. 110 00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:03.000 Yeah, that one always scared me too. I remember reading 111 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:04.720 about that when I was a kid, probably in the 112 00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:07.959 of those readers digest tales of the Paranormal books, or 113 00:06:07.959 --> 00:06:10.519 maybe even the Time Life Library had the picture of 114 00:06:10.519 --> 00:06:12.639 the lady there that I think I legged was all 115 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:16.480 that was left a burnmark on the chair, and that 116 00:06:16.600 --> 00:06:18.800 used to to scare the daylights out of me. I'm like, 117 00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:23.560 what if I spontaneously combussed that and quicksand? Now I'm 118 00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:25.480 a little bit older than you are, maybe a lot 119 00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:28.240 older than you are. But if you watch TV in 120 00:06:28.279 --> 00:06:32.160 the late sixties in the early seventies, particularly westerns, quicksand 121 00:06:32.360 --> 00:06:34.120 was the thing, and it got a lot of people 122 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:37.040 and almost got you know, some of my heroes, Daniel 123 00:06:37.040 --> 00:06:41.199 Boone and his son Israel and Davy Crockett and gun Smoke. 124 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:45.800 People are always getting in quicksand. But yeah, shc spontaneous 125 00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:49.319 human combustion. Bigfoot. I used to actually go out looking 126 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:51.240 for bigfoot when I was a kid. I don't know 127 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:53.079 what I've done if I'd found one. 128 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:55.399 But that's a great question. 129 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:59.519 What would you Yeah, I've wondered about that. These people 130 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:02.000 that go out looking for it and they play the 131 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:05.040 mating calls and stuff. Well, what if that works and 132 00:07:05.319 --> 00:07:07.759 all of a sudden an amorous bigfoot comes charging out 133 00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:10.160 of the woods. Do you run? Do you stay in 134 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:14.720 teck one for the team or in that situation? I 135 00:07:14.720 --> 00:07:16.160 often wondered about that. 136 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:22.560 Yeah, things to think about, for sure. Yeah, another thing 137 00:07:22.759 --> 00:07:25.879 you mentioned Quicksand I do remember also being extremely afraid 138 00:07:25.879 --> 00:07:28.399 of the Bermuda Triangle. Even though I have yet to 139 00:07:28.439 --> 00:07:31.439 go over the Bermutera Triangle, I was positive that if 140 00:07:31.480 --> 00:07:33.800 I did, I would disappear. That was another thing that 141 00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:35.079 was very common when I was younger. 142 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:40.959 Yeah, Charles Burlitt's book about that was out in that 143 00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:45.040 era anyway, And yeah, that one frightened me. I've yet 144 00:07:45.079 --> 00:07:47.040 to fly over it as well. I've been in the 145 00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:49.079 edge of it, but that's about as close as I 146 00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:51.959 want to get. But and some of my research and 147 00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:54.000 things that I've done, there are a lot of triangles 148 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:57.040 out there. They are all over the place. Here in 149 00:07:57.120 --> 00:07:59.959 New England where I'm at. You've got the Bennington Triangle, 150 00:08:00.759 --> 00:08:04.439 then you've got the Nevada Triangle. There's an Alaskan triangle, 151 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:09.560 there's a one in northern California. What is it with triangles? 152 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:12.879 Maybe you can enlighten us from your work as a 153 00:08:12.920 --> 00:08:16.959 professor there and then look back into history or maybe 154 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:21.319 even prehistory. Is there something mystical about the triangle? 155 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:27.439 Well, it's one of the strongest shapes. Right. We've got 156 00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:30.839 pyramids and we're always fascinated by those and how they 157 00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:34.639 were even built. But with these triangle areas, it seems 158 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:38.080 to be that you've got the a conglomeration of sightings 159 00:08:38.120 --> 00:08:42.159 in one area, and I think, just human nature, we're like, okay, 160 00:08:42.200 --> 00:08:44.919 we're the outer limits of this. Let's make three points 161 00:08:44.919 --> 00:08:47.559 and oh, it's a triangle. It also sounds a lot 162 00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:50.919 better than like the Bridgewater Rahmas or some. 163 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:57.799 Yeah, or the Alaska do decahedron or something like that. Right, 164 00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:01.360 there's something about those being able to find three points. 165 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:04.360 And I know it's always easy to connect the dots 166 00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:08.000 in reverse, but it does appear to be within a boundary. 167 00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:11.440 And again there there's a mysticism with the triangle. You know, 168 00:09:11.480 --> 00:09:14.679 from a mathematical perspective and then from an alchemical and 169 00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:20.360 metaphysical perspective. But a lot of those pesky triangles out there, 170 00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:22.960 and I hope I don't get caught in any of them. 171 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:26.480 Well, and that's the one of the things of small 172 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:29.840 town monsters that we've started in the last At this point, 173 00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:32.039 it's been a couple of years now, we started a 174 00:09:32.039 --> 00:09:35.919 publishing company and one of our early books was The 175 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:39.200 Texas dog Man Triangle by Aarondese, and that the whole 176 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:43.879 idea of the dog Man Triangle came about after Aaron 177 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:46.960 had accumulated all of these stories through historical and modern 178 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:51.120 day times and realized, oh wait, they're pretty concentrated in 179 00:09:51.159 --> 00:09:54.519 an area, and look, lo and behold, there's three points. 180 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:57.080 Let's make that the Texas dog Man Triangle. 181 00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:00.279 I'm saying, I find that fascinating. I haven't I heard 182 00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:03.399 anything about this. I'll definitely have to read that book. 183 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:06.279 Can you elaborate on that a little bit without giving 184 00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:07.480 too much of the book away? 185 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:10.759 So the Texas dog Man Triangle, the points are roughly 186 00:10:10.919 --> 00:10:17.159 around Dallas, Fort Worth, San Antonio, and Houston, So it's 187 00:10:17.159 --> 00:10:22.320 a pretty decent size triangle. But then again, Texas is massive, 188 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:25.919 so it really isn't that big on the general scale 189 00:10:25.960 --> 00:10:30.519 of things. But yeah, there are stories back from even 190 00:10:30.519 --> 00:10:36.000 the eighteen hundreds of these creatures that are bipedal canine, 191 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:44.399 half human half canine creatures that have been aggressive. They're 192 00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:47.360 very rarely. I mean, you just don't hear stories necessarily 193 00:10:47.399 --> 00:10:52.039 about them being something that you want to encounter. They're not, 194 00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:55.519 I don't know. They don't seem as friendly as maybe 195 00:10:55.559 --> 00:11:02.000 your local bigfoot, but they're sightings that are accumulated in 196 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:05.519 that area between those three points that are historical and 197 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:07.720 modern day. And even after Aaron put the book out, 198 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:09.840 which I'm sure you can attest to this from being 199 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:12.360 an author as well. Once you get the book out there, 200 00:11:12.519 --> 00:11:16.159 then you get more sightings. You get more people coming 201 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:18.080 in that have read the book and they're like, actually, 202 00:11:18.519 --> 00:11:20.200 I live in that area as well, and I had 203 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:20.759 an encounter. 204 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:22.480 So his. 205 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:28.039 Database of sightings has grown since the book has come 206 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:30.960 out as well, just kind of adding to yes, this 207 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:33.360 is a definitive area where there seems to be a 208 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:34.960 concentration of dog maned sightings. 209 00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:40.080 Yeah, that's been my experience too. People read the book 210 00:11:40.120 --> 00:11:41.960 and then they want to add something to it. Every 211 00:11:42.080 --> 00:11:43.799 single one of my books, and a couple of them 212 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:47.679 have been updated to new editions. But like Strange Things 213 00:11:47.679 --> 00:11:51.000 in the Woods, that's actually two volumes combined. That was 214 00:11:51.039 --> 00:11:53.480 originally Strange Things in the woods and more Strange Things 215 00:11:53.480 --> 00:11:56.600 in the wood my publisher combined. But I've got enough 216 00:11:56.679 --> 00:11:58.879 for a second volume of those, and that's just things 217 00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:01.360 in the woods. I mean, there's strange things in the water, 218 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:04.000 strange things in the sky, strange things on the farm, 219 00:12:04.120 --> 00:12:07.559 strange things in the city. It's just strange as a 220 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:11.200 relative term there. But people seem to be more aware 221 00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:13.080 of it. I don't know. Maybe it's just me since 222 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:15.320 I've published those books and gone on a lot of 223 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:18.080 shows and have my own shows and stuff now, but 224 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:21.759 there seems to be just a higher interest in it. 225 00:12:23.159 --> 00:12:26.559 There was a lot in the seventies, particular nineteen seventy 226 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:28.519 three that was a big UFO year. There was a 227 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:33.559 huge UFO flap in seventy three, and even my family 228 00:12:34.120 --> 00:12:37.759 jumped on that bandwagon. My brother lived on the highest 229 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:42.799 point around where we lived, and a lot of like 230 00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:45.559 a Friday night or Saturday night, we would go over there, 231 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:47.960 get lawn chairs set out in his yard and watch 232 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:50.519 the skies and we saw anomal of stuff, stuff that 233 00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:54.120 made no sense, stuff that wasn't airplanes or jets or 234 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:56.639 anything like that. But then it all just kind of 235 00:12:56.679 --> 00:12:59.480 died down. Those things tend to come in waves like that, 236 00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:02.200 flaps they call them, and I think that's true of 237 00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:06.480 anything cryptid or paranormal. There seems to be certain times 238 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:10.679 when it's more active or more prevalent. And I hear 239 00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:13.360 from people now that the study that side of it, 240 00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:16.759 that the veil is thin and that's why. I mean, 241 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:19.720 it's always it's thin around a certain time of year 242 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:23.080 in the Pagan and Celtic beliefs, but now I've heard 243 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:26.320 people say that it's getting thinner all the time, all 244 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:30.480 the time, year round, and that's why all this is 245 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:33.679 ramping up. Maybe that's so, or maybe it's just with 246 00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:36.519 the advent of the Internet and being able to communicate 247 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:39.799 worldwide with somebody. I mean, you're sitting in Ohio, I'm 248 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:42.080 sitting in New England, but we're talking like we're right 249 00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:45.679 here next to each other. I think that's just It 250 00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:48.919 has indeed made the world a smaller place and more 251 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:51.840 people are willing to share. Because back like one of 252 00:13:51.879 --> 00:13:54.320 the strange things in the woods, a lot of those 253 00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:59.200 stories were from friends of my family and people that 254 00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:01.919 my it's new and things like that. The ninety nine 255 00:14:01.960 --> 00:14:03.720 percent of the people in that book had passed on 256 00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:07.279 now and they were read some to tell those stories. 257 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:09.399 But the tea I'm kind of going me sometimes it 258 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:11.000 was like they had to get a log chain and 259 00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:17.360 drag it out of them. And one old gentleman, Auto Daro, 260 00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:19.759 He's been passed for several years, but he would tell 261 00:14:19.799 --> 00:14:21.480 me things when he found out I wasn't going to 262 00:14:21.559 --> 00:14:23.399 laugh at him or make fun of him that he 263 00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:25.600 hadn't even shared with his wife. She'd be sitting there 264 00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:27.840 while we were talking. She's like, you never told me that, 265 00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:31.120 and they'd, you know, have some lib responsible you'd never ask, 266 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:34.240 or something like that. But I think people are more 267 00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:37.440 open to talking about it now. And has that been 268 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:40.080 your experience with the small Town Monsters? Is it easier 269 00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:42.639 the longer you do it, Is it easier to find 270 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:45.759 witnesses to come forward and talk about what they see 271 00:14:45.879 --> 00:14:47.480 or in some cases didn't see. 272 00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:50.879 Yeah, I think it definitely has helped that we've I mean, 273 00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:53.679 small Time Monsters has been around since Minerva Monster came 274 00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:57.480 out in twenty fifteen, and just the fact that we've 275 00:14:57.480 --> 00:15:01.759 been around for a while and people can actually look 276 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:03.399 at our body of work and see that we're not 277 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:06.039 going to make fun of them has been a boon 278 00:15:06.159 --> 00:15:08.519 for us as far as getting people to feel comfortable 279 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:13.679 talking to us. As a researcher for small town monsters, 280 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:15.919 what I've noticed is there are certain cryptids where it's 281 00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:17.840 a lot easier to get people to talk because it 282 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:21.200 is more accepted. Bigfoot, it's a lot easier to get 283 00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:22.919 people to come forward and tell you that they had 284 00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:24.919 an encounter with Bigfoot because it just seems to be 285 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:28.919 more socially accepted. Right now, dog Man is a little iffy, 286 00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:33.399 But when you get into other things like sometimes UFOs 287 00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:37.200 can be a little trickier. Although that is starting to 288 00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:41.360 shift as well with everything that's happening in our culture 289 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:44.240 on the news, you know, the government's coming forward and 290 00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:50.360 saying yes, there's been UFOs or UAPs rather, that's making 291 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:54.320 it a little easier. But I have stories from people 292 00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:59.639 that had odd encounters of things that don't necessarily fall 293 00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:03.639 into the pop culture look at the at the strange 294 00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:06.399 if that makes sense, and they're more reticent to come 295 00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:10.639 forward with anything. So and then as far as the 296 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:13.919 movies that we've done, it was difficult to get people 297 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:18.679 to American werewolves too. That you're in that's titled the 298 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:22.120 skin Walkers. It was very difficult to get people to 299 00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:24.639 come forward and talk about any type of skin walker encounter, 300 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:29.720 which is not surprising. But I don't think that that 301 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:32.600 stigma is necessarily going away, even if we have shows 302 00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:36.799 out there like Skinwalker Ranch. That is just a cultural 303 00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:38.120 thing that isn't going to change. 304 00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:42.759 Yeah, I agree, And just because they put it on 305 00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:45.279 TV and put it where it can be consumed by 306 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:47.679 a mass audience, I think that raises the awareness and 307 00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:51.519 gets more people interested in people. I spoke to a 308 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:56.159 guy not too long ago that he thinks finding Bigfoot 309 00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:58.679 or something like that that he'd caught an episode of 310 00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:01.240 and had no interest in it prior to that, and 311 00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:04.880 then suddenly he's hooked and devouring everything he can find 312 00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:08.599 about the subject, reading books, watching other shows, actually going 313 00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:11.319 out in the field and doing some research. So I 314 00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:15.200 think sometimes it's just that little little spark that Genny 315 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:18.759 ciqua if you will, that excites these people like, Hey, 316 00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:21.440 I didn't know this was out here, and there's all 317 00:17:21.559 --> 00:17:27.079 this work and media that you can consume. And I 318 00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:29.200 don't know if people like that will stay in it, 319 00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:31.839 but at least it's nice to have an interest in 320 00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:33.920 it for a while, even if you go on to 321 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:37.079 something that I'm on. My personal taste and interest even 322 00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:41.079 in the paranormal change. While I was big into UFOs 323 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:42.720 as a child, I kind of grew out of that 324 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:46.960 went more into Bigfoot and then from that into other cryptids, 325 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:49.799 and that's kind of what got me into the missing 326 00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:52.680 people stuff too. And now I'm kind of circled back 327 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:55.440 around and coming another interest in UFOs, but I like 328 00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:58.920 the classic cases. I've got a new YouTube channel. It's 329 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:02.920 not very big, about thirty five hundred subscribers, called from Beyond, 330 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:06.720 and we're looking at some of the classic UFO cases recently. 331 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:10.920 First episode we covered the Betty and Barney Hill alleged 332 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:14.319 abduction from here in New England. The week prior to 333 00:18:14.359 --> 00:18:19.319 that we looked at Rendalstrom Forrest, which has been called 334 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:22.720 the UK's Roswell, and there's some some good stuff out 335 00:18:22.759 --> 00:18:26.079 there back during that era, you know, before all the 336 00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:32.920 abduction tom foolery and not discounting anybody's beliefs or theories 337 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:36.559 or anything there. I spoken to UFO conference and met 338 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:40.400 a lot of abductees that they believe what they say, 339 00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:44.920 and that gives me, you know, the belief in their testimony, 340 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:47.319 I think, but I like it when it was, you know, 341 00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:50.640 everybody that was men from Mars or moon men or 342 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:55.039 the Little Green Men and their flying saucers and things 343 00:18:55.079 --> 00:19:04.119 before it got beyond that. And so you mentioned UFO 344 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:07.079 or UAP. What do you think the reason is for 345 00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:09.240 the name change this far into the game. Why would 346 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:12.160 they suddenly just start calling it a UAP when we've 347 00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:15.119 been used to UFOs for decades? 348 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:25.359 Well, that is that is a great question. I I'm 349 00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:28.359 not sure other than they're trying to make a broader term, 350 00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:33.519 perhaps to cover more things, and maybe UFOs just seemed 351 00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:36.839 outdated for them, or maybe we're actually behind the times 352 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:39.200 and they don't actually use that anymore. Maybe they're just 353 00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:42.079 throwing us a bone and saying, yeah, we called it 354 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:45.200 UAPs while you guys are busy calling it UFOs. Could 355 00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:46.839 be that now we have another term. 356 00:19:47.079 --> 00:19:49.200 Yeah. And I had a comment or on one of 357 00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:53.640 my live streams this week on from Beyond he said, 358 00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:56.319 it's to make it harder to search for things in 359 00:19:56.400 --> 00:20:00.319 a four you request a Freedom of Information Act? Thought 360 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:03.640 about that if you're I hadn't either. If they're calling 361 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:07.000 it a UAP now, but you're looking for UFO information. 362 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:10.400 People that just come along and get into it now 363 00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:16.559 maybe not even realize that UFO was the preferred nomenclature 364 00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:20.240 before it went to UAP, So it could be that's 365 00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:22.920 a good point, classic mixed direction there. 366 00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:28.039 Yeah, I would not put it past anybody. 367 00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:30.759 And full disclosure. Do you think that it's coming or 368 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:33.079 do you think we'll ever find out for sure? Or 369 00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:37.559 is it just too immerse, too hidden from view that 370 00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:41.680 to ever be revealed, because that would destroy a lot 371 00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:45.440 of paradigms, if you will, if we did get full 372 00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:48.359 disclosure in the way that people expect. What's your thoughts 373 00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:48.720 on that. 374 00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:52.559 I think that that is definitely a concern that it 375 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:58.920 would cause issues, especially in the religious community. But I 376 00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:04.839 feel like at some point it'll just be I think, 377 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:07.799 on down the line, not anytime, probably not in my lifetime, 378 00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:12.079 but I think that it'll just it'll be something that 379 00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:16.640 they can't deny anymore and we will all know. We 380 00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:21.240 may not know the extent of anything or but I 381 00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:23.039 don't think that we're going to be able to live 382 00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:26.799 forever with this with blinders on that there's nothing else 383 00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:30.920 in the universe except us, So I think it'll come 384 00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:34.519 out eventually. I think it's kind of it'll probably be 385 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:39.200 a situation where the government's hand is forced, so to speak. 386 00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:44.720 That would be my guess. 387 00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:48.839 Yeah, and I agree with that. And I don't know 388 00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:51.240 at this point what it would take to convince everybody. 389 00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:54.400 I mean, there's been people that have been with people, 390 00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:57.279 have had these first hand experiences and they didn't believe 391 00:21:57.319 --> 00:22:02.039 what they saw. So again, I don't know if if 392 00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:04.759 one landed on the White House lawn and came out 393 00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:08.640 and shook hands with people, people, Oh, that's that's AI 394 00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:13.640 generated at CGI. It's a deep fake or Project Bluebeam? 395 00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:17.759 Are you familiar with that? I am not. It's supposedly 396 00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:23.160 Project Bluebeam one word. It's a type of I don't 397 00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:25.160 know if it's an apparatus or how it works, but 398 00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:28.799 it's a militarized thing where they can project a hologram 399 00:22:28.839 --> 00:22:30.720 that you can't tell the difference from the real thing, 400 00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:35.000 and according to which conspiracy theory you subscribe to, they 401 00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:37.599 can beam it straight into your head. It doesn't even 402 00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:40.519 have to be a physical manifestation. They can cause you 403 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:43.599 to see it in your brain. I guess I'm not 404 00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:47.200 sure all the ins and outs of it. But you know, 405 00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:50.680 used to they say to believe what was it a 406 00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:52.680 quarter of what you read and half of what you 407 00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:55.000 see or something. Now we can't believe anything that we 408 00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:59.480 see or hear with all the AI. I know a 409 00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:02.160 lot of people they're scared of it, and it can 410 00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:04.559 cause some problems and things, but I see it as 411 00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:07.880 a tool. It can be beneficial. It's like anything like that. 412 00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:12.519 Like when my dad was small, people were scared of electricity. 413 00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:17.599 He said, he's heard creatures in the pulpit talk about electricity. 414 00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:19.720 You know, you're fooling with something you shouldn't fool with it. 415 00:23:19.720 --> 00:23:23.160 It's going to destroy the world. But yet it didn't, 416 00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:25.839 and it change everything. And I heard the same about 417 00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:29.720 nuclear power and things like that, and then that came 418 00:23:29.799 --> 00:23:33.759 to you know what's next, and somebody's going to be 419 00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:36.759 afraid of everything. And there are people that are averse 420 00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:38.720 to any kind of change, and I get that. I 421 00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:43.039 don't like especially swift and sudden change. But I'm open 422 00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:46.400 to new ideas. But what do you think about CERN 423 00:23:46.519 --> 00:23:48.279 and what's going on over there? Do you think they're 424 00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:51.759 tampering with something they shouldn't add to as the saying 425 00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:54.599 goes or what's your belief on that? Is it changing 426 00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:58.640 things like the Mandela effect? I've heard people attribute that 427 00:23:58.680 --> 00:23:59.880 to CERN. What's your thoughts on that? 428 00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:03.920 Yeah, that's funny. I didn't realize that people were attributing 429 00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:08.279 that to CERN. No, I think that they're I don't 430 00:24:08.279 --> 00:24:10.240 think that they're messing with something that they shouldn't mess 431 00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:17.279 with over at CERN. I there's I don't know. This 432 00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:20.799 also comes from more of a personal perspective as well, 433 00:24:20.839 --> 00:24:23.039 because there was someone that went through my school that 434 00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:26.519 worked over at CERN for a while, and like I 435 00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:29.319 knew him, and he was super nice and kind, and 436 00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:33.640 I would like to think that he would have the 437 00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:36.000 sense to not mess with something that he shouldn't mess 438 00:24:36.039 --> 00:24:38.680 with and that this is absolutely all in the name 439 00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:43.039 of science and furthering our understanding of the universe. So 440 00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:49.920 that would be my thought on it. I don't how 441 00:24:49.960 --> 00:24:53.359 horrible if they started to mess with something, yeah, and then. 442 00:24:54.200 --> 00:24:58.920 Advocate here though, what if it's compartmentalized and people that 443 00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:01.839 are good and just are working on this project and 444 00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:04.400 don't exactly know what they're working on now. I draw 445 00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:09.000 from personal experience. Both my parents were a part of 446 00:25:09.079 --> 00:25:12.680 the Manhattan Project and they had an idea of what 447 00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:16.559 they were working on the whole of it. But still, 448 00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:18.559 you know, you had this person doing this and that 449 00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:21.880 person doing that, and the people up above who were 450 00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:24.240 coordinating everything. They knew what they were doing. That's why 451 00:25:24.319 --> 00:25:25.720 part of it was an oak Ridge and part of 452 00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:28.200 it was in Los Almos. They wanted to keep those 453 00:25:28.319 --> 00:25:32.400 visionable materials separate until they got ready to arm everything. 454 00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:37.440 But there was a lot of people there was prior. 455 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:41.000 There was Clinton Engineer Works prior to O R n 456 00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:49.720 L and the AEC and other agencies that worked out there. 457 00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:52.279 But again they knew they were doing something for the 458 00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:54.839 greater good, but they didn't know exactly what they were doing. 459 00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:57.599 So if that many people, No. Coridge at that time 460 00:25:57.640 --> 00:25:59.759 didn't even exist. It wasn't on any maps. It was 461 00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:04.079 a behind the fence and you had guard shacks at 462 00:26:04.119 --> 00:26:06.680 every entrance into town and you had to show a 463 00:26:06.680 --> 00:26:10.119 badger you didn't get in there. So but nobody talked. 464 00:26:10.119 --> 00:26:12.119 I mean, it was again part of the war effort, 465 00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:17.599 and your silence was necessary and people got called on that. 466 00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:21.519 I've heard about people that attended dances inside the fence 467 00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:23.839 and maybe whispered to their date about something they were 468 00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:26.359 working on and then it was found out that they 469 00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:30.160 had again talked a little more than they should have, 470 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.559 and they were chid for that. If not fired or 471 00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:36.799 you could be arrested. My dad he talked about some 472 00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:39.079 of the documents and things that he had signed. Even 473 00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:41.960 far into retirement. He said there were certain things that 474 00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:45.519 are classified and that are still classified that he wouldn't 475 00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:49.359 be able to talk about ever unless he could lose 476 00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:51.960 his pension and his insurance and all that stuff. So 477 00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:54.519 those people, but again they understood they were doing it 478 00:26:54.519 --> 00:26:59.759 for the greater good. But sure people can they told Yeah, 479 00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:05.599 that's what they were told, And I know, it's just astounding. 480 00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:09.000 And then another conspiracy theory that that gave me particular 481 00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:12.559 insight into was Project paper Clip. And I've heard people 482 00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:15.039 debunk that and say, oh, that didn't happen, it doesn't exist. 483 00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:18.319 But yet my dad, who was a scientist at Olkridge 484 00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:22.519 National Laboratory, he worked right alongside some of those German 485 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:27.319 scientists that were brought over after the war. And personal story. 486 00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:31.400 I went to school, elementary school with a kid who 487 00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:35.359 was from Germany, and I went home with him after 488 00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:39.799 school one day and his dad was a scientist out 489 00:27:39.799 --> 00:27:43.079 there as well, I spoke fluent German and the kid 490 00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:46.160 my age spoke English. His dad had a heavy accent. 491 00:27:46.839 --> 00:27:49.480 But we were down in the basement. They had like 492 00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:51.720 a wreck room. That was the big thing to have 493 00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:55.519 downstairs in the seventies was a family room or rec room. 494 00:27:55.880 --> 00:27:57.400 And he's like, come here, I want to show you 495 00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:00.880 something and I'm like okay. He push us on the 496 00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:05.200 paneled wall back there and it swings open, and I thought, okay, 497 00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:07.039 he's going to show me a bomb shelter. A lot 498 00:28:07.079 --> 00:28:11.039 of houses built after the war had a bomb shelter, 499 00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:13.200 and because of the Cold War and all that going on, 500 00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:15.799 and I thought, okay, he's going to show me his 501 00:28:15.799 --> 00:28:18.400 bomb shehulter. We didn't have one, but I knew other 502 00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:20.799 kids that had a bomb shelter in their basement. So 503 00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:22.680 he opens it up and he flicks on the light 504 00:28:23.480 --> 00:28:28.119 and here is the biggest display of German war memorabilia 505 00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:32.559 that I have ever seen before since. And what I 506 00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:35.039 don't know if his glass or plexiglass case. There was 507 00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:39.680 a uniform, a very high ranking uniform. And I said, wow, 508 00:28:39.720 --> 00:28:44.119 your dad really loves his war memorabilia. And he said, Steve, 509 00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:48.000 you don't understand. He said that was his uniform. So 510 00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:52.640 he had this little shrine to the fatherland in his basement, 511 00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:57.160 yet he was out working at There's No laboratory right 512 00:28:57.160 --> 00:29:00.200 alongside my dad. So that project vapor clip is not 513 00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:04.079 a myth. So again, you never know. There's a lot 514 00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:06.359 of people that keep a lot of secrets out there. 515 00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:10.279 Yeah, the compartmentalizing thing, I mean, I understand it, but 516 00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:13.720 it's also scary to think that way, to think about 517 00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:15.680 all the things that people may be working on and 518 00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:17.839 not knowing the full extent of it, and then what 519 00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:22.599 the actual purpose is behind it on a larger scale, 520 00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:24.599 and then you. 521 00:29:24.680 --> 00:29:27.319 Have places like Area fifty one, you know where there's 522 00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:30.119 things going on that again, everybody there doesn't know what 523 00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:32.200 they're working on. But then you have a whistleblower like 524 00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:35.000 Bob Blazaar. What do you think of his testimony? Do 525 00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:37.440 you think that he's on the up and up ors 526 00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:40.880 he just found a way to opportunize all this. 527 00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:47.759 I was actually just watching Bob Lazar last night, watching 528 00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:51.599 his interview with Oh what is that? Oh? Joe Rogan, 529 00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:57.799 and I would say that if he's not being truthful, 530 00:29:57.799 --> 00:29:59.720 he's come up with a lot of a lot of 531 00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:06.000 de tales that make it extremely believable. Like I, this 532 00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:10.519 is just first first glance at these things. I did 533 00:30:10.599 --> 00:30:15.960 not detect him lying about anything from from that interview anyway, 534 00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:20.119 because there were just too many, like I said, too 535 00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:22.119 many nuances that he had in there that he's either 536 00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:27.000 a fantastic storyteller or a great a great liar, or 537 00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:27.839 he's telling the truth. 538 00:30:29.079 --> 00:30:31.680 That was my takeaway from that too. He believes what 539 00:30:31.720 --> 00:30:35.359 he's saying, or seems to me, Yeah, I can say 540 00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:38.720 that of a lot of in the in the UFO 541 00:30:38.920 --> 00:30:44.079 culture things. I've heard Travis Walton speak and you know, 542 00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:46.480 saw him at a conference and listen to him speak. 543 00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:49.240 He believes what he says. He believes that that's what's 544 00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:52.039 happened to Either that or he's the greatest actor that 545 00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:55.039 we've ever seen or the most accomplished liar ever. And 546 00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:57.720 there's a lot of people like that. Even Whitley Strieber, 547 00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:00.160 I've heard him speak before. I don't think he as 548 00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:03.319 the conferences anymore, at least he doesn't do them in 549 00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:06.599 Las Vegas because the casinos don't in force of no 550 00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:08.880 smoking policy. He or they didn't when I was there. 551 00:31:09.519 --> 00:31:12.039 But I believe that he believes what he saw, and yeah, 552 00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:14.319 he made a fortune off books and movies and things. 553 00:31:14.359 --> 00:31:17.119 But I think he is telling the truth as he 554 00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:20.079 knows it about those experience he has been starting with 555 00:31:20.160 --> 00:31:23.839 Communion and beyond m. 556 00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:25.920 I think that's a good way to put it, that 557 00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:28.200 they it's the truth, is they believe it. 558 00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:32.319 Yeah, And that's like with my own experiences. I've had 559 00:31:32.359 --> 00:31:35.880 people try to debunk stuff that I've seen, like you know, 560 00:31:35.960 --> 00:31:38.279 you didn't see that, or that didn't happen, or how 561 00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:40.839 could you remember it in that much detail. Well, that's 562 00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:43.480 just the way my brain operates. I can remember things 563 00:31:43.640 --> 00:31:46.640 just an infinite detail. I've got a near photographic memory, 564 00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:49.440 so that's one way I can remember all these details. Plus, 565 00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:52.839 when you have one of those encounters or experiences, it just, 566 00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:55.400 I don't know, it crystallizes in the mind. I can 567 00:31:55.480 --> 00:32:00.440 go back to any of my several especially the really 568 00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:02.839 really scary ones and things that I can remember every 569 00:32:02.839 --> 00:32:05.920 little detail of everything around me, what I had for 570 00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:08.839 breakfast that day, what was going on, what I did afterwards. 571 00:32:09.400 --> 00:32:11.440 I don't know how I could not remember all that, 572 00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:13.839 And just the fact to me that I can recall 573 00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:16.799 it in that grade of detail just shows to me 574 00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:20.119 that that's it's real. You know, in my mind, I 575 00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:22.039 was there, I know what happened. I know what I 576 00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:25.759 saw or didn't see or felt or heard, and nobody's 577 00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:27.759 ever going to convince me otherwise. 578 00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:31.200 Right, Yeah, exactly. I mean you were there, you had 579 00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:31.920 the experience. 580 00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:36.079 Yeah, so especially, I don't care if anybody believes it 581 00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:38.079 or not, you know, like Ripley's believe it or not, 582 00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:40.440 this is Stockton's believe it or don't. I don't. I 583 00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:45.279 don't care. That might be a name for a podcast. 584 00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:51.680 I like it, but again, you know, I'm not here 585 00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:54.839 to win any friends or influence any people. I'm just 586 00:32:54.880 --> 00:32:57.920 sharing what's happened to me and hopefully make it a 587 00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:01.799 little easier for other people to share what's happened with them. 588 00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:03.559 And that was one thing I wanted to ask you 589 00:33:04.160 --> 00:33:06.359 with small town monsters, have you ever had a showing 590 00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:09.559 of those, like in a retirement home or an old 591 00:33:09.559 --> 00:33:14.920 folks home or anything like that. No, but that's the 592 00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:16.920 things I do with my books. I like to go 593 00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:20.279 and do a reading, and especially with strange Things in 594 00:33:20.279 --> 00:33:22.920 the woods or even my strange world, and a lot 595 00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:25.000 of times they'll just be like somebody like, ah, what's 596 00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:27.759 this scrap? There's no beingo tonight, And they'll sit there 597 00:33:27.799 --> 00:33:30.000 and they'll do their knitting or their crochet or whatever, 598 00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:32.640 and then they just get up and leave. But usually 599 00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:35.720 there'll be a couple of people hang around after the 600 00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:38.160 reading is over, and I know what's coming up, And 601 00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:41.200 usually it'll be an older gentleman and he'll sidle up 602 00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:44.000 to me and say that story you had about the bar, 603 00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:46.200 and he said, let me tell you what happened to you, 604 00:33:46.759 --> 00:33:49.240 what happened, sorry, let me tell you what happened to 605 00:33:49.319 --> 00:33:51.960 me when I was a kid. And then the story 606 00:33:52.039 --> 00:33:53.839 just comes out, and maybe you know, this guy's been 607 00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:57.880 sitting on it for decades, and yet by hearing me 608 00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:00.319 tell my stories or tell other people's story in the 609 00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:02.960 cases chrange things in the woods, it frees him up. 610 00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:06.240 And otherwise that story might not have ever seen the 611 00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:08.199 light of day. Maybe he didn't tell to anybody could 612 00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:10.960 have taken it to the grave with him. And that's 613 00:34:11.239 --> 00:34:13.920 part of the commission that I'm doing here. I'm getting 614 00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:17.000 these stories out there so that they'll live on longer 615 00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:19.719 than the people that told them, like instoring things in 616 00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:22.280 the woods, or longer than me I'm hoping, you know, 617 00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:25.440 I'm building a legacy here, and I've encouraged other people 618 00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:29.800 to write Cisco Murdock, Mark, Anthony Wyatt. There's a lot 619 00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:31.840 of stuff here that you know, I've kind of been 620 00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:34.000 like a Johnny apple Seed to some of this. But 621 00:34:35.239 --> 00:34:37.159 I wonder what kind of response you would get if 622 00:34:37.159 --> 00:34:39.920 you showed those in that type of setting. If it 623 00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:43.039 would scare the pants off those old people, or if 624 00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:45.760 there would be some that would stick around and share 625 00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:48.159 their stories. You might might want to give that a thought. 626 00:34:48.440 --> 00:34:50.440 Mentioned that the sentence about any things. 627 00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:54.199 Yeah, that would be really interesting, especially because we are 628 00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:57.599 so close to where like Minerva Monster. I mean, I 629 00:34:57.639 --> 00:35:01.239 live in Minerva, so we're not far at all from 630 00:35:01.239 --> 00:35:03.400 where that happens. So to show that and then see 631 00:35:03.400 --> 00:35:04.559 what their reaction would be. 632 00:35:04.760 --> 00:35:06.400 Yeah, And you could do it, you know, in the library, 633 00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:09.679 you could do it in schools. That's another thing. Another 634 00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:15.199 undermined segment. I said, old people or senior citizens are 635 00:35:15.320 --> 00:35:17.639 one of our greatest wealths as far as folklore and 636 00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:21.760 stories and things. But another audience that I found is 637 00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:25.519 the teenagers. I go to a skateboard park or anywhere 638 00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:28.960 where teenagers congregate and say Hey, if you were going 639 00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:31.000 out on a date and you wanted to go parking 640 00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:35.280 someplace spooky, where's the Craybaby Bridge, where's the white Lady 641 00:35:35.320 --> 00:35:38.320 walk or the lady in white or whatever? And those 642 00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:40.719 they know all those places too. I did when I 643 00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:45.079 was a kid, right, The adults didn't pass it around 644 00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:47.719 like kids did. And I think that's the way a 645 00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:51.599 lot of these urban legends. And in the South, particularly 646 00:35:51.639 --> 00:35:54.360 in the Appalachians, there's there's a cry Baby bridge in 647 00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:57.480 every little community. And I don't know if it's like 648 00:35:58.119 --> 00:36:00.519 a version of the telephone game, or somebody heard it 649 00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:02.719 and then just retold it, but they added in a 650 00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:06.039 location that their audience would know, or if there's really 651 00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:10.079 I mean Texas, there's cry Baby bridge there. And then 652 00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:14.039 the same with the tunnel where the or the there 653 00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:16.000 it's a railroad track, I think where the kids put 654 00:36:16.039 --> 00:36:17.559 their hands on the car and push you over. 655 00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:19.199 Oh right, yes, there's a. 656 00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:22.480 Railroad tunnel in the Kingsport, Tennessee. It's like that since 657 00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:26.480 about tunnel. There's just the same stories in different locations. 658 00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:29.800 So it makes me think somewhere sometimes that really happened 659 00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:33.599 and it just got passed around. Another example, my mom's 660 00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:36.280 from East Tennessee. She grew up, was born in the 661 00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:39.440 CAD's Cove area or the Smoky's like my grandmother. And 662 00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:42.239 then my dad's from Middle Tennessee over on the Cumberland Plateau. 663 00:36:42.880 --> 00:36:44.760 But a lot of the stories that she would tell 664 00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:46.440 that she heard as a child, he had heard them 665 00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:49.199 as a child as well, even though they were six 666 00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:53.360 years apart, but in a local setting, you know, hours 667 00:36:53.400 --> 00:36:56.960 apart by car so again, and this was before the 668 00:36:57.079 --> 00:36:59.239 days of you know, and I guess they could have 669 00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:00.840 heard it on the Red You or something, but this 670 00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:04.079 was stories that they told around the woodstove in the 671 00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:07.760 wintertimer in front of the fireplace. But to me, that's 672 00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:10.280 fascinating the way these stories get passed around and they change. 673 00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:12.639 It is it's like a version of telephone game. Did 674 00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:13.960 you ever play that when you're in school? 675 00:37:14.599 --> 00:37:19.920 Yeah, yeah, absolutely, things are vastly different sometimes by the 676 00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:20.559 end of the game. 677 00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:24.920 Yeah, well you mentioned being there enter near Minerva. Now 678 00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:29.480 there's something about you can agree or choose to disagree 679 00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:32.800 with me here. There's something about Ohio in general that 680 00:37:32.920 --> 00:37:36.280 has the strangeness to it that there's the little pockets 681 00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:38.599 of weirdness there. And I mean that in the kindest 682 00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:46.039 and best possible way, that's good. But yeah, I don't 683 00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:51.320 know if you know the brothers from the belief Ale podcast, Chris, 684 00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:55.559 Jeremy and John. They're out of Ohio and they are 685 00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:59.840 among my three favorite Ohioans, and they've investigated a lot 686 00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:03.920 of stuff there and realize that there's just something strange there. Yeah. 687 00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:06.960 Yeah, I agree. I think we've got something here between 688 00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:10.960 the we're in the foothills of the Appalachians and then 689 00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:14.000 we've got the rivers all around here. I think when 690 00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:16.400 you get the confluence of all of those things together, 691 00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:21.320 plus the history, just the history in the area, the 692 00:38:21.559 --> 00:38:25.880 tribes that were once here, the mountain builders that were here. Yeah, 693 00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:28.679 we've got We've got a lot going on in this area, 694 00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:29.400 that's for sure. 695 00:38:29.559 --> 00:38:33.119 Yeah. And then of course you have stuff around the 696 00:38:33.159 --> 00:38:36.000 West Virginia area and the Kentucky areas that goes over 697 00:38:36.119 --> 00:38:41.039 into Ohio. Moss Man and the point pleasant things and 698 00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:45.000 how that all connects. But yeah, what I was on 699 00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:47.400 their show, they interview me. That's one of my favorite 700 00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:49.960 interviews that I've ever done, if not they favorite. I 701 00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:52.840 said to them that I was sharing some my Ohio 702 00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:55.559 experiences as a child, and I said, you know, any 703 00:38:55.599 --> 00:38:59.280 state they gave us Dean Martin Larry Flint and the 704 00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:02.320 Cramps is a great state. And they laughed at that. 705 00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:05.760 You know, we've had astronauts and presidents and stuff. 706 00:39:05.440 --> 00:39:10.599 But yep, excuse me, how to. 707 00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:13.880 Clear my throat? But again, that's just divergent things that 708 00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:17.320 I could think of that make it strange. It's not 709 00:39:17.480 --> 00:39:21.039 like it's not your normal state, if there is a normal, 710 00:39:21.079 --> 00:39:24.159 but there's just there's an extra weirdness there that I 711 00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:26.199 can appreciate, and it sounds like you can too. 712 00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:28.920 Absolutely, Yeah, I'm glad to be here. 713 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:34.800 Now. Minerva Monster, you mentioned that for those of listening 714 00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:36.480 that might not have heard of that. Can you give 715 00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:39.159 us a little background on what the Minerva Monster is? 716 00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:43.000 Yeah, so it's a bigfoot creature. That was a bigfoot 717 00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:46.519 creature that was seen in nineteen seventy eight in Minerva, Ohio. 718 00:39:48.559 --> 00:39:53.599 And he made his appearance with the and why did 719 00:39:53.599 --> 00:40:00.519 their name just escape my escape my brain? Oh, for 720 00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:04.480 goodness sakes, he made his appearance in Mi Nerva with 721 00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:09.679 a family and they called the local sheriff's department, and 722 00:40:09.719 --> 00:40:11.920 of course people came out and looked and pretty soon 723 00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:15.079 it got in the newspapers and then without fail, people 724 00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:16.800 were showing up from all over the place to try 725 00:40:16.840 --> 00:40:22.760 to hunt this monster. And yeah, that was I mean, 726 00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:26.320 the family faced a decent amount of ridicule and it 727 00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:29.800 wasn't until we had the documentary come out that some 728 00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:35.239 of them actually got a little more let's see, how 729 00:40:35.239 --> 00:40:38.719 do you say, like a little more acknowledgment. I guess 730 00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:42.719 things were put the peace a little bit better when 731 00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:46.119 the documentary came out, Like, oh, okay, I guess maybe 732 00:40:46.159 --> 00:40:48.519 that did happen. You guys weren't just making stuff up 733 00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:51.239 at the time, which why anybody would make that up. 734 00:40:51.559 --> 00:40:54.480 I don't know why anybody would want that kind of attention, 735 00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:58.400 especially then, but that was what happened. It was in 736 00:40:58.440 --> 00:41:02.800 the seventies and there were a rash of sightings. So 737 00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:07.000 it was the Caton family, that's right, the Caton family. 738 00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:09.039 I knew it'd come to me eventually. 739 00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:13.519 Yeah, and I enjoy those stories like that kind of 740 00:41:13.519 --> 00:41:16.119 a one off. I mean, I don't know necessarily that 741 00:41:16.119 --> 00:41:18.719 that is or not, but the things where it just 742 00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:21.599 happened over a short period of time and maybe a 743 00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:25.000 handful of people were like here in New England and Massachusetts. 744 00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:28.519 You have the Dover Demon, which was basically spotted over 745 00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:32.800 two nights, and I think it was nineteen seventy seven, 746 00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:36.599 seventy eight, and then it was just gone and nobody 747 00:41:36.599 --> 00:41:40.119 ever saw anything again, although now looking back, there's people 748 00:41:40.159 --> 00:41:42.719 that claimed that something similar to that had been seen 749 00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:46.679 before and since. But the story that I'm familiar with, 750 00:41:47.119 --> 00:41:49.400 it just happened. And I love that sort of thing. 751 00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:51.360 I love to go to those places. I'm more of 752 00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:54.880 a legendarypper than I am an investigator. I like to 753 00:41:54.960 --> 00:41:57.360 just go and if you will, basking the ambiance and say, 754 00:41:57.400 --> 00:41:59.679 you know, I'm in Dover, this is where this happened. 755 00:41:59.719 --> 00:42:02.559 I have interesting story about that. Back in the eighties, 756 00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:06.400 I'd going to visit a friend that was going to 757 00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:09.840 NYU and one weekend they said, hey, we're going to 758 00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:11.840 go to this house party. Go with us, and it 759 00:42:11.960 --> 00:42:15.159 was in Massachusetts. It was a good drive and ended 760 00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:18.079 up we were in Dover. We went to these people's 761 00:42:18.079 --> 00:42:22.639 house out in the suburbs and they're like, so, Steve, 762 00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:24.840 what do you think of Dover? And I'm like, well, 763 00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:27.559 it's it's different, you know, I'm Tennessee. And then it 764 00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:29.760 was kind of lost ball in highways in New York 765 00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:32.480 and even more so at that time in New England. 766 00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:34.880 And I said, oh, I think it's great. I said, 767 00:42:35.480 --> 00:42:38.239 I've heard about the Dover Demon. They're like the Dover Demon, 768 00:42:38.519 --> 00:42:40.760 and they start yelling for this guy. They're like Bill, Bill, 769 00:42:40.840 --> 00:42:43.360 come here, come here, and this guy. And then there 770 00:42:43.400 --> 00:42:46.360 was two guys named Bill, one William and the other 771 00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:49.000 was named Bill. I don't remember which one exactly that 772 00:42:49.039 --> 00:42:51.360 I met, but he was at this house party in 773 00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:54.440 Dover and he came out and he just he seemed 774 00:42:54.519 --> 00:42:56.639 kind of embarrassed or kind of humbled because his friends 775 00:42:56.639 --> 00:42:59.079 are making a big deal. But I spoke with one 776 00:42:59.079 --> 00:43:02.079 of the witnesses about it a year or two after 777 00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:06.679 it happened, and again he believed what he saw, sure, 778 00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:08.880 And I believe it was the one that drew the 779 00:43:09.760 --> 00:43:11.599 initial pictures of it. So if again, there was a 780 00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:15.039 Bill and a William that were eyewitnesses, but I don't know, 781 00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:17.480 you know, lost in the mists of time. I was 782 00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:20.159 in college at the time, and a lot of that 783 00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:21.679 is in a haze. 784 00:43:23.239 --> 00:43:28.119 I understand the years after the fact. If you were 785 00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:30.840 to come to Minerva now and you would go past 786 00:43:30.840 --> 00:43:32.760 the Caton's house, they still live in the same house. 787 00:43:32.840 --> 00:43:35.079 They've embraced it. Now they have a big foot statue 788 00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:38.800 outside of their home. Yeah, they'll talk to you about 789 00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:39.119 it now. 790 00:43:40.039 --> 00:43:43.480 And I talked about that it was on this show, 791 00:43:43.599 --> 00:43:47.159 or I do a blog called Around the Campfire. I 792 00:43:47.239 --> 00:43:49.000 might have talked about it over there. How a lot 793 00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:53.159 of times communities have learned to embrace these cryptids or 794 00:43:53.199 --> 00:43:58.000 these strange occurrences and they turn it into something that's 795 00:43:58.039 --> 00:44:00.599 good for the local economy. They saw soupers. They have 796 00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:03.679 a festival and they get people talking about it, like 797 00:44:04.239 --> 00:44:08.599 they have the Mothman Festival and then right the flat 798 00:44:08.599 --> 00:44:11.400 Woods Monster. You know, that's a big deal. And I think, 799 00:44:11.440 --> 00:44:13.760 what better way to share this than to make it 800 00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:16.559 a community wide thing. And yeah, it's kind of kitchen 801 00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:19.440 with the souvenirs and some of that, but it's fun 802 00:44:19.480 --> 00:44:22.039 and it gets an interest up. I mean, kids will 803 00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:24.519 always remember, you know, when I was a kid, they 804 00:44:24.519 --> 00:44:26.599 took me to the Mothman Festival, you know, and we 805 00:44:26.639 --> 00:44:29.679 saw this and we saw that, And I think that's 806 00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:34.000 a great way to continue interest in all things weird 807 00:44:34.039 --> 00:44:34.599 and spooky. 808 00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:37.119 Oh, I agree. I think it's one of the smartest 809 00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:41.280 things that community could do right, especially right now, it 810 00:44:41.360 --> 00:44:46.360 seems that pop culture is wanting more of these stories. 811 00:44:46.360 --> 00:44:51.880 There were wanting to hear about more monsters, and these 812 00:44:51.920 --> 00:44:55.719 festivals are just they're doing well. So you're not only 813 00:44:55.760 --> 00:44:58.079 preserving the story, you're helping, like you said, helping the 814 00:44:58.079 --> 00:45:01.639 local economy. I don't know what a town like Point 815 00:45:01.639 --> 00:45:03.639 Pleasant would be like without the Mothman Festival. 816 00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:08.920 It'd be a new age mill town without the mill 817 00:45:09.159 --> 00:45:10.039 I agree. 818 00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:14.159 Yeah, so that's one of the best things that they 819 00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:16.119 could have done for their for their town was to 820 00:45:16.159 --> 00:45:18.920 have that Mothman festival and have the museum and really 821 00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:22.159 embrace it and not shun it so much. Now there 822 00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:28.800 are places where we've been uh Louisiana, Missouri, I believe 823 00:45:28.880 --> 00:45:31.400 is the name of the town where Momo was the 824 00:45:31.480 --> 00:45:34.559 which was another Bigfoot creature in the seventies nineteen seventy two. 825 00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:40.199 I believe they embraced the story of Momo, the whole 826 00:45:40.239 --> 00:45:43.480 craze of it early on after the initial sightings, but 827 00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:46.199 then have shunned it. So when small town Monsters went 828 00:45:46.199 --> 00:45:50.079 over to do the Momo documentary, they were actually told 829 00:45:50.239 --> 00:45:52.440 by some locals, you might as well just leave because 830 00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:56.239 you're not wanted here. But that's another river town that 831 00:45:56.320 --> 00:45:58.440 I think would greatly benefit if they were to embrace 832 00:45:58.480 --> 00:46:02.920 Momo and start to have a festival or something, draw 833 00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:07.320 people in, bring bring tourists, and there's there is something 834 00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:12.119 encrypted tourism, you know that and scared tourism. Good ways 835 00:46:12.119 --> 00:46:14.679 to bring bring in money to the local economy and 836 00:46:14.719 --> 00:46:16.360 then to keep the story alive as well. 837 00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:19.440 Yeah, and especially with some of the places now that 838 00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:23.000 they're doing excuse me, like the the overnight ghost hunts 839 00:46:23.039 --> 00:46:25.079 and things. Those things would have been demolished or just 840 00:46:25.239 --> 00:46:30.079 left to collapse back into the earth, like Brushing Mountain 841 00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:34.840 Penitentiary in Pittross, Tennessee. You know, now you can go. 842 00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:38.519 They've they've getten some wonderful EVPs and experiences and stories 843 00:46:38.519 --> 00:46:42.480 out of there. Some of the true crime locations of 844 00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:47.039 Aliska Axe murder house, you know, the Lizzie Borden House 845 00:46:47.079 --> 00:46:49.000 that's a bed and breakfast. Now, you know, it's just 846 00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:53.239 and it's kind of morbid, but there's I think just 847 00:46:53.320 --> 00:46:57.239 that's one of our characteristics as humans. We haven't innate 848 00:46:57.320 --> 00:47:01.800 curiosity about the darker side of things. Said, I'm thankful 849 00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:04.679 for that. It's provided me the opportunity to go to 850 00:47:04.719 --> 00:47:06.320 a lot of places and talk to a lot of 851 00:47:06.320 --> 00:47:08.679 people in front of a lot of people, and and 852 00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:11.480 you know, write a lot of books and things and mh. 853 00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:14.719 But yeah, embrace the strange. 854 00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:19.800 Yeah, exactly. And having these places open to the public 855 00:47:20.039 --> 00:47:23.480 allows for the folklore to continue, right, We get to 856 00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:27.480 actually be a part of it, morphing and changing, like 857 00:47:27.559 --> 00:47:31.440 in real time, something like Lizzie Borden House or like 858 00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:34.639 you mentioned Brushy Mountain when we're when we're now, it's 859 00:47:34.679 --> 00:47:38.559 focused on ghost hunting in the paranormal. Now that gets 860 00:47:38.559 --> 00:47:41.599 to take on a whole other chapter in the story 861 00:47:41.639 --> 00:47:46.639 of those areas, and that's pretty awesome. We have a 862 00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:49.400 place not far from here, Mansfield Reformatory, which is where 863 00:47:49.400 --> 00:47:50.800 Shoshank Redemption was filmed. 864 00:47:51.320 --> 00:47:53.199 I heard a lot about it. Have you been there? 865 00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:55.480 Oh, I've been there multiple times. 866 00:47:55.760 --> 00:47:58.079 And do you share with our audience a little bit 867 00:47:58.079 --> 00:48:00.679 of your experiences there? I've only seen it on but. 868 00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:05.360 Wow, sure, sure. Yeah. It's it's a gorgeous a gorgeous 869 00:48:05.480 --> 00:48:08.079 piece of architecture. It just looks like a castle when 870 00:48:08.119 --> 00:48:10.440 you drive up up to it. It's one of my 871 00:48:10.480 --> 00:48:15.000 favorite buildings. But the Mansield Reformatory is where I had 872 00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:19.599 probably the most terrifying encounter that I've that I've had 873 00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:24.000 to that I've witnessed. And it's weird. It's weird to 874 00:48:24.039 --> 00:48:29.559 stay terrifying because I wasn't It's not like a bigfoot 875 00:48:29.599 --> 00:48:31.719 running out of the woods, you know, and trying to 876 00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:33.119 eat you or something. I didn't think that I was 877 00:48:33.159 --> 00:48:37.159 going to die or anything like that. But up in 878 00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:40.760 one area of the Reformatory, it's called the West Attic, 879 00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:45.960 it is where once upon a time, okay, when the 880 00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:49.280 Reformatory was built. It was built literally as a reformatory, 881 00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:51.559 meaning that they wanted to reform the people that came 882 00:48:51.559 --> 00:48:53.960 in there, they had some issues. They would come in, 883 00:48:54.039 --> 00:48:55.920 they'd stay for a while and then hopefully be able 884 00:48:55.960 --> 00:48:58.280 to go back out to society and join the rest 885 00:48:58.280 --> 00:49:00.760 of the world without an issue. It was never meant 886 00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:04.920 to be a place for murderers and those who could 887 00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:09.920 never go back to society. But in the early nineteen hundreds, 888 00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:13.079 the Ohio State Penitentiary, which is where they had death row, 889 00:49:14.239 --> 00:49:16.360 there was a horrible fire. This was around Columbus, a 890 00:49:16.360 --> 00:49:19.719 horrible fire and the place burned down. Lots of people died, 891 00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:24.079 but they had inmates then that needed to be rehomed 892 00:49:24.079 --> 00:49:26.480 for a little while until they could rebuild the penitentiary. 893 00:49:26.960 --> 00:49:28.800 So what they did was they shipped some of these 894 00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:32.400 hardened criminals up to Mansfield and they put them in 895 00:49:32.440 --> 00:49:37.320 the West Attic, which is just one massive room that 896 00:49:37.559 --> 00:49:42.079 is about half the size of the prison itself because 897 00:49:42.119 --> 00:49:44.199 it's all in one wing, the size of one whole wing, 898 00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:46.679 just one big open room, and they shoved all the 899 00:49:46.679 --> 00:49:48.920 guys in there and just kind of left them be 900 00:49:49.679 --> 00:49:54.280 to their own devices. So today, as you can imagine, 901 00:49:54.440 --> 00:49:56.440 from what I understand, the guards didn't even go into 902 00:49:56.440 --> 00:49:58.880 that room. They just kind of let them do their 903 00:49:58.880 --> 00:50:00.880 own thing, but the them up in the West Attic 904 00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:04.719 so that they would be away from the other criminals 905 00:50:04.760 --> 00:50:07.239 that were in the regular cells. They didn't want the 906 00:50:07.239 --> 00:50:12.559 bad influence to infiltrate. So anyway, today, when you go 907 00:50:12.599 --> 00:50:15.639 to mansoord or Formatory and you're going on a paranormal investigation, 908 00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:17.320 if you go up to the West Attic, what it's 909 00:50:17.360 --> 00:50:21.920 most famously known for is you go and sit. There 910 00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:26.199 are no windows at all in this room, there's just 911 00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:30.199 one door in and out, and you go to the 912 00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:32.159 far end of the room. You sit down and you 913 00:50:32.239 --> 00:50:35.960 just watch, and as you're watching, you'll start to see 914 00:50:36.639 --> 00:50:39.960 like ghost lights start to fly around the room different colors, 915 00:50:40.679 --> 00:50:44.280 So that in itself is pretty neat. That's one of 916 00:50:44.320 --> 00:50:46.599 my favorite things to see or like the ghost lights 917 00:50:46.599 --> 00:50:51.519 like that. But what happened when we were there, and 918 00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:53.599 this has happened multiple times now that I've been there, 919 00:50:53.599 --> 00:50:55.039 but the first time that it happened, it was the 920 00:50:55.039 --> 00:50:59.320 most stunning. Of course, we were sitting there and these 921 00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:01.239 lights showed up and then all of a sudden, on 922 00:51:01.320 --> 00:51:04.840 the floor at the far end of the room, this 923 00:51:05.480 --> 00:51:10.039 light being it's like the opposite of a shadow person, 924 00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:13.280 Like a shadow person that you see, it has the 925 00:51:13.320 --> 00:51:16.360 defining characteristics of a human, but it's in shadow. Except 926 00:51:16.599 --> 00:51:18.519 that was this, except it was in light. Because the 927 00:51:18.559 --> 00:51:20.280 room was completely dark. We were sitting there in the 928 00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:26.159 pitch black, and this was illuminated being that was walking 929 00:51:27.199 --> 00:51:29.559 back and forth, and it would walk closer to us, 930 00:51:29.880 --> 00:51:31.760 and it would get within I have no idea how 931 00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:33.519 many feet because it was dark, so it was very 932 00:51:33.519 --> 00:51:38.079 difficult to gauge distance. But when it would get fairly close, 933 00:51:38.119 --> 00:51:40.159 then it would drop down on all fours and crawl 934 00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:44.079 at you, and then it would back up, but it 935 00:51:44.119 --> 00:51:47.960 would pace in the room, and it was illuminated. It 936 00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:52.639 wasn't like I mean, it was a self contained light 937 00:51:52.679 --> 00:51:55.880 system light source, but it illuminated enough that when it 938 00:51:55.880 --> 00:51:57.960 would go by the wall, you could see the walls 939 00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:00.159 start to light up, so we could tell when it 940 00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:01.679 was by the wall. We could tell when it was 941 00:52:01.719 --> 00:52:03.199 by the cross beams that were in the middle of 942 00:52:03.199 --> 00:52:08.360 the room, because those would light up with it. That 943 00:52:08.519 --> 00:52:14.760 was terrifying to me, just because that shouldn't exist, or 944 00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:17.519 at least in my mind, shouldn't exist. And so that 945 00:52:17.679 --> 00:52:20.559 is the probably the most terrified I've ever been on 946 00:52:20.599 --> 00:52:25.880 an investigation. But after I had that experience, I was 947 00:52:25.920 --> 00:52:28.360 not alone. There were other people with me, so at 948 00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:30.559 least I had other people to verify what we had 949 00:52:30.559 --> 00:52:34.039 all seen. But after I had that experience, I would 950 00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:37.440 go on different podcasts or talk to other friends that 951 00:52:37.480 --> 00:52:39.960 are in the paranormal community, and I would try to 952 00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:44.079 explain this, and no one seemed to have a similar story. 953 00:52:43.880 --> 00:52:46.559 They didn't know, like, I don't know what to call this. 954 00:52:46.639 --> 00:52:51.880 I still have no name for it, And people would 955 00:52:51.880 --> 00:52:54.440 talk about it and want to know if they could 956 00:52:54.440 --> 00:52:57.079 see it, if they went as well, and Luckily, I 957 00:52:57.119 --> 00:52:59.559 was fortunate enough to go back to Mansfield just a 958 00:52:59.559 --> 00:53:02.599 few months ago with some friends who had known the story, 959 00:53:02.599 --> 00:53:04.320 and I told them, let's go up to West Attic 960 00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:07.480 and just see if anything happens. You know, I can't 961 00:53:07.480 --> 00:53:09.719 guarantee that you're gonna have the same experience as I did. 962 00:53:10.119 --> 00:53:13.840 I don't know, but the night that I saw it, 963 00:53:13.880 --> 00:53:16.239 we were able to see it multiple times throughout the evening. 964 00:53:16.320 --> 00:53:17.960 We would leave and go to other areas of the 965 00:53:17.960 --> 00:53:21.360 prison and then come back and that figure would show 966 00:53:21.400 --> 00:53:24.280 up again. Well, sure enough, a couple months ago, when 967 00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:25.960 I was there with a whole new group of people, 968 00:53:26.679 --> 00:53:31.000 they all saw it as well. It manifested again. They 969 00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:34.280 all saw it. They were all equally as nervous as 970 00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:37.719 I was, and they it would get close and then 971 00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:39.599 a couple of the women would say, turn the lights on, 972 00:53:39.639 --> 00:53:42.760 turn the flashlight on, flashlight on, and then of course 973 00:53:42.760 --> 00:53:46.920 when the lights on, then you don't see anything. But 974 00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:51.920 that's my scary, scariest story from ghost hunting in general, 975 00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:54.599 but also my story from Mansfield. Yeah. 976 00:53:54.639 --> 00:53:56.679 Wow, that's amazing And if I'm ever in the area, 977 00:53:56.880 --> 00:53:59.480 I definitely want to check it out. Now, did the 978 00:53:59.480 --> 00:54:03.400 people you were with either time or both times. Did 979 00:54:03.400 --> 00:54:05.639 they see pretty much what you saw or was it 980 00:54:05.960 --> 00:54:09.840 different experiences for different people maybe based on their cognition, 981 00:54:10.039 --> 00:54:12.199 or was it a shared experience. 982 00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:15.079 So it's interesting that you asked that. The first time 983 00:54:15.079 --> 00:54:19.079 that I was there, the first time I had that experience, 984 00:54:19.159 --> 00:54:21.159 we all seem to see the same thing because we 985 00:54:21.159 --> 00:54:23.599 would sit there and as we're seeing it, we're like, 986 00:54:23.639 --> 00:54:25.519 what are you seeing? What are you seeing? And asking 987 00:54:25.519 --> 00:54:29.360 each other consistently, and everybody's repeating the same things that 988 00:54:29.360 --> 00:54:33.760 they're seeing the same colored same colored lights, same action 989 00:54:33.920 --> 00:54:37.159 of the figure, and so on. So we were all 990 00:54:37.159 --> 00:54:40.239 seeing the same thing this last time that we were there. 991 00:54:41.800 --> 00:54:45.639 Everybody was seeing it, but it seemed to be and 992 00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:48.119 this was odd as well. It seemed to be doing 993 00:54:48.199 --> 00:54:51.599 different things depending on who was seeing it. Like I 994 00:54:51.639 --> 00:54:54.280 could see it walk along the wall, because I could 995 00:54:54.280 --> 00:54:57.239 see the wall illuminate. But as I'm saying that, someone 996 00:54:57.239 --> 00:54:59.000 else is saying, it's coming right down the middle of 997 00:54:59.000 --> 00:55:02.960 the floor, or you know, it's coming to the other 998 00:55:03.039 --> 00:55:07.079 side of the room like they seem to be. Or 999 00:55:07.280 --> 00:55:09.639 the one person said they saw it walk up the wall, 1000 00:55:09.719 --> 00:55:14.000 which I didn't see that at all, but they were 1001 00:55:14.039 --> 00:55:18.880 seeing different things and sometimes different colors than what I 1002 00:55:18.920 --> 00:55:23.960 was seeing, which was odd, and. 1003 00:55:23.960 --> 00:55:26.280 I've always found that interesting. But I liken it to 1004 00:55:26.360 --> 00:55:29.480 the parable, if you will, or the Blind Men and 1005 00:55:29.519 --> 00:55:31.559 the elephant. You know. Once, oh, it's got a trunk, 1006 00:55:31.719 --> 00:55:33.880 I said, No, it's flat and wide. The other No, 1007 00:55:33.920 --> 00:55:36.159 it doesn't have a trunk, it has a tail, you know. 1008 00:55:36.280 --> 00:55:38.960 So even though they're doing the same thing, there's a 1009 00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:41.920 different takeaway, but yet they all experienced the same thing. 1010 00:55:42.320 --> 00:55:43.880 I think it's kind of like that, and again, just 1011 00:55:44.199 --> 00:55:50.239 a different perception. Maybe it presents itself to different people 1012 00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:53.880 in different ways. Some of the things that I've experienced, 1013 00:55:53.880 --> 00:55:56.440 I had people right along with me that had either 1014 00:55:56.559 --> 00:56:01.760 a lesser experience or no experience at all. And I 1015 00:56:01.800 --> 00:56:04.559 came to conclusion a few years ago because every house 1016 00:56:04.599 --> 00:56:07.519 I've ever lived in was haunted to some degree, and 1017 00:56:07.800 --> 00:56:10.320 I finally decided, it's not the houses that are haunted, 1018 00:56:10.360 --> 00:56:13.519 it's me. These things choose to reveal themselves to me 1019 00:56:13.719 --> 00:56:17.360 for whatever reason. I lived in a very very active 1020 00:56:17.400 --> 00:56:19.760 house in Las Vegas, probably one of the most active 1021 00:56:19.760 --> 00:56:23.000 places I've ever lived. Yet the person I shared the 1022 00:56:23.039 --> 00:56:26.239 house with that lived there before I did, they'd never 1023 00:56:26.280 --> 00:56:28.840 experienced anything. And it's like when I got there, then 1024 00:56:28.920 --> 00:56:32.119 all hell broke loose, and then they eventually began to 1025 00:56:32.880 --> 00:56:34.920 experience things, or at least that they'd admit to. I 1026 00:56:34.920 --> 00:56:37.599 think before maybe they were just in denial of what 1027 00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:42.000 was going on there. But again, I don't know what 1028 00:56:42.039 --> 00:56:45.400 it is about me. Something imbued to me. Is that 1029 00:56:46.880 --> 00:56:50.159 the negative rh factor and the green eyes? Is it 1030 00:56:50.239 --> 00:56:54.599 all that? Am I an alien? Or you know? I 1031 00:56:54.639 --> 00:56:57.000 subscribe to that theory. I don't think I'm from this planet. 1032 00:56:57.039 --> 00:57:01.639 I'm just visiting here, got stranded here or something. Take 1033 00:57:01.719 --> 00:57:03.320 me home. As long as I can take my wife 1034 00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:08.360 with me, let's go. And she's like me, She's always 1035 00:57:08.440 --> 00:57:12.360 been an outsider, even among the outsiders. Is I'm not 1036 00:57:12.440 --> 00:57:15.559 from this planet? I would go to family reunions and 1037 00:57:15.559 --> 00:57:18.599 things and things. I can't really be related to these people, 1038 00:57:18.679 --> 00:57:21.719 can I? And I had had proof, you know, had 1039 00:57:21.760 --> 00:57:24.519 pictures of me right after I was born and all 1040 00:57:24.559 --> 00:57:26.440 that I used to take. You know, am I adopted 1041 00:57:26.559 --> 00:57:29.119 or something? What happened to me? And you know my 1042 00:57:31.519 --> 00:57:33.760 father and mother are on a spaceship somewhere. They're gonna 1043 00:57:33.800 --> 00:57:35.840 come back for me one day if I get abducted. 1044 00:57:35.960 --> 00:57:38.880 They took me home, but no, I was. I was 1045 00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:42.039 born there. My grandmother witnessed the birth and according to her, 1046 00:57:42.159 --> 00:57:43.880 my mom was knocked out. That was back when they 1047 00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:47.239 gave women in labor twilight sleep. But I was born 1048 00:57:47.280 --> 00:57:49.599 with a veil over my face what they call it 1049 00:57:49.639 --> 00:57:53.039 in southern Appalachina the call just the amniotic sac was 1050 00:57:53.039 --> 00:57:54.920 still stretched over my head and had to have it 1051 00:57:55.000 --> 00:57:58.519 cut away. But in my superstitious granny's eyes, that was 1052 00:57:58.920 --> 00:58:01.760 that marked me as a space child. Out of all 1053 00:58:01.800 --> 00:58:04.320 the grandchildren, and there was a lot. My mom came 1054 00:58:04.320 --> 00:58:07.440 from a big family, her and nine brothers. I was 1055 00:58:07.480 --> 00:58:11.800 the only grandchild born with that condition, and that put 1056 00:58:11.960 --> 00:58:14.280 a bullseye on me as far as Granny was concerned, 1057 00:58:14.280 --> 00:58:16.639 and I was the one she had to pass her 1058 00:58:16.800 --> 00:58:20.440 legacy onto. And a lot of stuff like that that 1059 00:58:20.440 --> 00:58:22.920 I've read about, it does tend to skip a generation. Now. 1060 00:58:22.920 --> 00:58:26.480 My mom had some precognition and things that I don't 1061 00:58:26.519 --> 00:58:29.440 claim to have any special abilities or anything. It just 1062 00:58:29.719 --> 00:58:32.199 is what it is. But I know things sometimes that 1063 00:58:32.239 --> 00:58:35.039 I have no way of knowing, not as strongly as 1064 00:58:35.079 --> 00:58:40.320 my grandmother did. But I think to some degree you 1065 00:58:40.360 --> 00:58:43.400 have that and script you wrote for me on thirteen 1066 00:58:43.400 --> 00:58:47.480 past midnight. You talked about your children shame things and 1067 00:58:47.559 --> 00:58:50.679 experiencing things that leg you believe that maybe they were 1068 00:58:50.960 --> 00:58:54.239 reincarnated or had had experiences. You want to expound on 1069 00:58:54.280 --> 00:58:55.599 that a little bit for our audience. 1070 00:58:56.440 --> 00:58:59.000 Yeah, so this happened. I have three children, and this 1071 00:58:59.039 --> 00:59:03.159 happened with two of them, my two oldest. I remember. 1072 00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:10.119 My oldest daughter was probably three at the time, two 1073 00:59:10.199 --> 00:59:12.599 or three maybe, well probably three because of how much 1074 00:59:12.639 --> 00:59:16.400 she was talking, I guess. But we were on our 1075 00:59:16.440 --> 00:59:20.760 way home from my parents. It was Christmas, I do believe, 1076 00:59:20.960 --> 00:59:24.559 and we were stopped at a stop light and she 1077 00:59:24.639 --> 00:59:28.559 looked out the window and she looked at the pedestrian 1078 00:59:28.840 --> 00:59:32.199 signal and she asked what that was and I said, well, 1079 00:59:32.199 --> 00:59:33.920 that's to let you know whether you should walk or not, 1080 00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:36.320 you know whether it's safe to cross the street. And 1081 00:59:36.360 --> 00:59:40.320 she was like, oh, okay, yeah, I remember, but I 1082 00:59:40.320 --> 00:59:43.480 didn't know. I didn't know what that was like or 1083 00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:46.440 how'd she say? I forgot it? I know that now, 1084 00:59:46.480 --> 00:59:48.079 but I had forgotten it then. And I'm like, what 1085 00:59:48.119 --> 00:59:51.639 do you mean? And she said, well, back before, when 1086 00:59:51.679 --> 00:59:55.599 I was really old, I was coming home from getting 1087 00:59:55.679 --> 00:59:59.840 groceries and I could see my house across the street. 1088 01:00:00.159 --> 01:00:03.199 So I was almost home and I saw that sign 1089 01:00:03.519 --> 01:00:05.239 and it was lit up, so it was lit up 1090 01:00:05.239 --> 01:00:08.400 to say that she shouldn't cross. She's like, but I 1091 01:00:08.400 --> 01:00:10.559 forgot what it said or what that meant. So I 1092 01:00:10.599 --> 01:00:12.559 crossed the street anyway, and I got hit by a 1093 01:00:12.599 --> 01:00:16.199 car and then an ambulance came and picked me up 1094 01:00:17.159 --> 01:00:20.880 and took me to the hospital. And she was like, 1095 01:00:20.920 --> 01:00:24.519 nobody was at the hospital. I was alone and it 1096 01:00:24.599 --> 01:00:30.079 was cold and it was dark. But she and she's like, 1097 01:00:30.159 --> 01:00:34.400 I was so scared, and I'm like, what do you 1098 01:00:34.519 --> 01:00:38.280 And as she's explaining this, she's sobbing, she's just crying, 1099 01:00:38.480 --> 01:00:41.960 like hysterically, and we're trying to calm her down because 1100 01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:43.679 we're driving and you know, a kid in the back 1101 01:00:43.760 --> 01:00:46.639 seat that's freaking out is no fun whenever you're you're 1102 01:00:46.639 --> 01:00:48.559 trying to drive home in the middle of the night. 1103 01:00:50.639 --> 01:00:54.360 But uh, she was. She just kept going on. She 1104 01:00:54.440 --> 01:00:56.639 was very hung up on the being cold and dark 1105 01:00:56.639 --> 01:00:59.960 and alone part of it. So we eventually got her 1106 01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:02.039 calm down, and we'd asked her some questions after that, 1107 01:01:02.159 --> 01:01:08.199 and essentially she just had this memory of her death. 1108 01:01:08.599 --> 01:01:11.519 Her everything was cold and dark until all of a 1109 01:01:11.519 --> 01:01:13.880 sudden there was a light and then she was here 1110 01:01:13.920 --> 01:01:19.320 with this family, is what she said. So she just 1111 01:01:19.400 --> 01:01:22.119 had this story. She said she was very old when 1112 01:01:22.119 --> 01:01:26.280 it had occurred. And I think she gave me a 1113 01:01:26.360 --> 01:01:27.960 name at one point in time, but it was just 1114 01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:31.000 the first name. And that's not enough for me to 1115 01:01:31.039 --> 01:01:33.480 go on to find any records or anything like that. 1116 01:01:33.639 --> 01:01:39.079 But that was her story. And then it was two 1117 01:01:39.159 --> 01:01:44.559 years later my son, who was then three as well, 1118 01:01:44.599 --> 01:01:48.079 he's the middle child. We were sitting in the car 1119 01:01:48.519 --> 01:01:50.960 waiting for his older sister to get out of school actually, 1120 01:01:52.239 --> 01:01:55.639 and he said he saw me on my phone. I 1121 01:01:55.719 --> 01:01:58.519 was playing a game of some sort, like I don't 1122 01:01:58.519 --> 01:02:00.320 know if it was candy Crush or something like that. 1123 01:02:01.320 --> 01:02:05.400 And he's like, oh, my, my grandma used to play 1124 01:02:05.400 --> 01:02:08.519 that or my I think he used the word that 1125 01:02:08.639 --> 01:02:11.000 I we never use like I think he might have 1126 01:02:11.039 --> 01:02:13.960 said mema or something like that that we don't use 1127 01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:19.519 that word. We've never he's never said that before, you know, 1128 01:02:19.639 --> 01:02:22.880 she used to play games like that. And I'm like, 1129 01:02:22.920 --> 01:02:25.039 what are you talking about, thinking about my mom or 1130 01:02:25.880 --> 01:02:28.800 my husband's mom, and like they don't play games like this. 1131 01:02:29.079 --> 01:02:33.239 He's like, no, no, no, my mema from before used 1132 01:02:33.239 --> 01:02:36.199 to play those games. I'm like, okay, well tell me 1133 01:02:36.239 --> 01:02:39.239 about her. And he's like, well, she was really she 1134 01:02:39.400 --> 01:02:42.079 was really nice and I lived with her and she 1135 01:02:42.239 --> 01:02:44.719 was she was just really great and I loved her 1136 01:02:44.840 --> 01:02:48.519 very much. He's like, it's really sad what happened. And 1137 01:02:48.519 --> 01:02:53.199 I'm like, what happened? And he started to get emotional 1138 01:02:53.239 --> 01:02:58.920 as well, and he described living with his grandmother, that 1139 01:02:59.000 --> 01:03:02.800 they had been a wonderful family and one night or day, 1140 01:03:02.920 --> 01:03:04.199 I'm not sure if it was a night or day, 1141 01:03:04.239 --> 01:03:07.719 but somebody came into the house and had attacked his grandmother, 1142 01:03:08.920 --> 01:03:11.360 and he tried to intervene to save her, but wasn't 1143 01:03:11.400 --> 01:03:16.360 able to do so in time. Therefore, he then spiraled 1144 01:03:17.159 --> 01:03:19.239 and he said he was so upset that he wasn't 1145 01:03:19.280 --> 01:03:22.199 able to save his grandma that he got into a 1146 01:03:22.239 --> 01:03:27.400 car and he started driving really really fast, and he said, 1147 01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:30.480 I drove really fast, and then I lost control and 1148 01:03:30.519 --> 01:03:34.320 I hit a tree. And he said, I even remember 1149 01:03:35.440 --> 01:03:37.159 what it was like when I hit the tree, and 1150 01:03:37.199 --> 01:03:41.599 he's like describing in gory detail how he hit the 1151 01:03:41.719 --> 01:03:46.320 dashboard and so on. It was horrible. He's like, but 1152 01:03:46.400 --> 01:03:50.159 then it's like I flew out of there, and I 1153 01:03:50.239 --> 01:03:54.280 flew right into your belly. And I'm like, what do 1154 01:03:54.320 --> 01:03:56.039 you mean you flew into my belly. He's like, well, 1155 01:03:56.079 --> 01:03:58.280 you were sitting in the living room. He's like, you 1156 01:03:58.280 --> 01:03:59.800 were sitting here, or you were sitting there in the 1157 01:03:59.800 --> 01:04:04.079 lit room and you were watching TV and eating, and 1158 01:04:04.119 --> 01:04:05.960 I flew into your belly. And then I was ready 1159 01:04:06.000 --> 01:04:09.159 to come into this new family. And what was really 1160 01:04:09.159 --> 01:04:15.679 odd is that, in real like an actual time, whenever 1161 01:04:15.800 --> 01:04:17.840 I went into labor with him, I was sitting in 1162 01:04:17.840 --> 01:04:20.039 the living room and I was I had just gotten food, 1163 01:04:20.079 --> 01:04:23.920 sat down, started eating, and I was watching wrestling when 1164 01:04:23.960 --> 01:04:25.920 the first contraction hit and we had to get to 1165 01:04:25.920 --> 01:04:29.320 the hospital right away. He was a very quick labor. 1166 01:04:30.559 --> 01:04:33.800 But yeah, both of them had those stories. Now, my 1167 01:04:33.880 --> 01:04:38.599 third child, she's she almost seems new to the world 1168 01:04:38.920 --> 01:04:42.679 in a lot of ways. She doesn't I don't know. 1169 01:04:42.719 --> 01:04:46.079 Everything seems new to her, at least from watching her grow. 1170 01:04:46.280 --> 01:04:50.000 Everything seems new and exciting. And she's not the old 1171 01:04:50.039 --> 01:04:53.920 soul kind of thing that you hear about. But yeah, 1172 01:04:53.920 --> 01:04:57.280 both children had that story of what had occurred to 1173 01:04:57.320 --> 01:05:00.599 them in their previous life and that they both their 1174 01:05:00.639 --> 01:05:05.559 their families before so, and they both had a horrible 1175 01:05:05.639 --> 01:05:08.119 ending too. It wasn't like they had this nice story like, yeah, 1176 01:05:08.119 --> 01:05:10.280 I grew old and I just passed away with my family. 1177 01:05:10.360 --> 01:05:14.599 No traumatic there, But that's still amazing. And to hear 1178 01:05:14.639 --> 01:05:16.599 that come out of the mouth of a three year 1179 01:05:16.639 --> 01:05:19.480 old that doesn't have any concept of any of this 1180 01:05:19.599 --> 01:05:24.320 and just so matter of factly, and you know that's no. 1181 01:05:24.440 --> 01:05:27.360 Kids have great imaginations and stuff. But I have a 1182 01:05:27.360 --> 01:05:31.199 whole narrative like that, your entire previous story that would 1183 01:05:31.320 --> 01:05:34.519 that would take some doing there. I believe there's something 1184 01:05:34.559 --> 01:05:36.840 to all that. I've had other friends that where their 1185 01:05:36.920 --> 01:05:40.400 child would wake up in the night crying for one 1186 01:05:40.440 --> 01:05:43.599 parent or another or grandparents. Well they're right here, No, 1187 01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:46.039 I mean the ones from before my other mommy, my 1188 01:05:46.079 --> 01:05:50.639 other daddy, when I lived, you know, for and again 1189 01:05:51.079 --> 01:05:54.280 small children that had no concept of anything like that. 1190 01:05:54.400 --> 01:05:57.639 It's it models the mind and it gives you something 1191 01:05:57.679 --> 01:05:59.199 to ponder, something to think about. 1192 01:06:00.199 --> 01:06:03.280 Absolutely, and they grew out of those memories as well, 1193 01:06:03.280 --> 01:06:05.199 if you were to ask them now. I'm glad that 1194 01:06:05.239 --> 01:06:08.079 I wrote them down when I did and shared them 1195 01:06:08.079 --> 01:06:10.599 with you, and they've been recorded because when they got 1196 01:06:10.639 --> 01:06:12.719 to a certain age, they lost those memories. 1197 01:06:13.599 --> 01:06:18.559 So and on hearing that now of what's their response 1198 01:06:18.599 --> 01:06:20.440 to that anything? 1199 01:06:20.599 --> 01:06:23.840 Yes, Well, my oldest just rolls her eyes. She rolls 1200 01:06:23.840 --> 01:06:28.239 her eyes at anything that's weird or strange. So she's like, yeah, okay, 1201 01:06:28.280 --> 01:06:34.239 mom my son. He just he's like, yeah, I think 1202 01:06:34.280 --> 01:06:38.159 I remember saying that maybe, but he doesn't. It just 1203 01:06:38.199 --> 01:06:40.159 doesn't phaze him. 1204 01:06:41.320 --> 01:06:43.199 Yeah, and it's strange. A lot of away. A lot 1205 01:06:43.239 --> 01:06:46.960 of those memories, early early childhood memories like that lead people. 1206 01:06:46.960 --> 01:06:50.119 I've known people that couldn't remember anything before they were 1207 01:06:50.119 --> 01:06:52.239 four or five years old. But I can remember a 1208 01:06:52.280 --> 01:06:54.360 bit of detail, like when I was still in diapers 1209 01:06:54.360 --> 01:06:57.679 and stuff, and just again I've been blessed with a 1210 01:06:57.719 --> 01:07:00.840 near photographic memory and it goes way back. Youngest memory 1211 01:07:01.039 --> 01:07:02.440 that's when I was six months old. 1212 01:07:03.519 --> 01:07:03.880 Wow. 1213 01:07:04.280 --> 01:07:06.639 I remember going to a place with my dad where 1214 01:07:06.679 --> 01:07:09.239 a house was being built and they just had the 1215 01:07:09.320 --> 01:07:12.519 foundation and I had a roof on it, and they 1216 01:07:12.559 --> 01:07:15.480 had part of the interior wall started. It was basically 1217 01:07:15.519 --> 01:07:18.920 just a big open space. I remember him to pick 1218 01:07:19.039 --> 01:07:20.760 me up and put me up in there and I 1219 01:07:20.840 --> 01:07:23.920 ran around on the sub flooring. And I mentioned that 1220 01:07:23.960 --> 01:07:25.840 to my dad when I was like probably in my 1221 01:07:25.920 --> 01:07:28.599 thirties or something. When I was little. Where do we 1222 01:07:28.639 --> 01:07:31.159 go to one time? And I described that scenario and 1223 01:07:31.199 --> 01:07:33.239 he looked at me and he said, well, that was 1224 01:07:33.280 --> 01:07:34.800 the house you grew up in. But he said you 1225 01:07:34.800 --> 01:07:36.679 were only six months old. He said, there's no way 1226 01:07:36.679 --> 01:07:40.199 you can remember that, but yet I did. So I 1227 01:07:40.239 --> 01:07:41.719 didn't know where it was. I didn't know it was 1228 01:07:41.760 --> 01:07:43.760 the house I grew up in. I didn't remember that part, 1229 01:07:44.159 --> 01:07:47.880 but I remembered being there and describing that situation exactly 1230 01:07:47.920 --> 01:07:51.199 as it happened. So starring ch house some things like 1231 01:07:51.239 --> 01:07:53.840 that will sticking it and other things maybe have no 1232 01:07:53.960 --> 01:07:56.880 memory of, or something that I did in elementary school 1233 01:07:56.920 --> 01:07:58.880 or even high school, I'll come back to me like, 1234 01:07:58.880 --> 01:08:02.960 oh yeah, I remember when that happened. But I've had 1235 01:08:02.960 --> 01:08:05.400 that happened too, where I would mention something that happened 1236 01:08:05.920 --> 01:08:08.280 in school years and people that was there with them 1237 01:08:08.320 --> 01:08:10.400 and I don't remember that, like yay, you were right 1238 01:08:10.400 --> 01:08:14.239 there with me. We talked about maybe it was just 1239 01:08:14.320 --> 01:08:17.159 so traumatic for them they blotted it out. I don't know. 1240 01:08:18.119 --> 01:08:21.760 But getting back into the school part of this now, 1241 01:08:21.920 --> 01:08:25.239 I mentioned in the introduction there that you're a classics professor, 1242 01:08:26.119 --> 01:08:29.199 How do your students feel about your other fields of 1243 01:08:29.199 --> 01:08:31.239 interest in fields of devort? Is that something you ever 1244 01:08:31.279 --> 01:08:33.640 discussed with them or do you keep your lives separate? 1245 01:08:34.520 --> 01:08:36.800 Yeah, they're pretty separate. They're not aware of it unless 1246 01:08:36.840 --> 01:08:41.920 they were to look into my name, I guess, so 1247 01:08:42.199 --> 01:08:45.119 that isn't something that comes up now. I did actually 1248 01:08:45.399 --> 01:08:49.319 last fall speak with a college class that was not mine. 1249 01:08:50.399 --> 01:08:53.000 It was an English class, I believe, just talking to 1250 01:08:53.079 --> 01:08:59.680 them about kind of following, following what you enjoy whenever 1251 01:08:59.720 --> 01:09:01.960 you go out into the professional world, and then hoping that, 1252 01:09:02.760 --> 01:09:08.199 hoping that that becomes something that's fruitful later. So they 1253 01:09:08.199 --> 01:09:10.079 were asking me all kinds of questions about the world 1254 01:09:10.079 --> 01:09:12.000 of the weird and how I got to be in 1255 01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:15.960 there and how that actually became a job, because that's 1256 01:09:15.960 --> 01:09:16.960 always the hope, right. 1257 01:09:17.800 --> 01:09:20.600 Yeah, I love that and it is. It's such a 1258 01:09:20.600 --> 01:09:24.119 blessing to get to do what I do and make 1259 01:09:24.159 --> 01:09:27.000 a living doing it, you know, Otherwise I'd be working 1260 01:09:27.039 --> 01:09:30.159 in a bookstore or a record store or pumping gas 1261 01:09:30.319 --> 01:09:33.159 or something, because I'm not fit for any kind of 1262 01:09:33.239 --> 01:09:36.600 normal employment, which I've proven over time, and I've worn 1263 01:09:36.640 --> 01:09:39.840 a lot of hats. I've been a network administrator, have 1264 01:09:39.880 --> 01:09:45.640 been technical support for a large medical group. I've worked construction, demolition, 1265 01:09:45.880 --> 01:09:50.000 done a little bit of everything, but writing and talking 1266 01:09:50.479 --> 01:09:54.399 seems to be my forte. My dad gave me that 1267 01:09:54.439 --> 01:09:57.399 when I was little, because I talked a lot and 1268 01:09:57.439 --> 01:09:59.560 he said, boy, he said, if you can ever find 1269 01:09:59.560 --> 01:10:01.880 a way to get paid for talking, you'll be set. 1270 01:10:02.039 --> 01:10:04.159 And here I am so thanks that. 1271 01:10:05.439 --> 01:10:08.520 Yeah. He called it. 1272 01:10:08.960 --> 01:10:11.680 Same one that used to accuse me of having the 1273 01:10:11.680 --> 01:10:14.279 ability to talk until I knew what I wanted to say. 1274 01:10:14.279 --> 01:10:16.800 And that's true. I've always been very good, had the 1275 01:10:16.840 --> 01:10:20.399 gift of gab. And one of my favorite classes that 1276 01:10:20.439 --> 01:10:23.840 I ever took in college was extraneous speaking. I'm sorry, 1277 01:10:23.880 --> 01:10:28.760 extemporaneous speaking. And people were panicking. You know, you had 1278 01:10:28.960 --> 01:10:31.680 they gave you your topic on an index card and you 1279 01:10:31.720 --> 01:10:34.560 had five minutes to prepare. And I said to the prophet, 1280 01:10:34.560 --> 01:10:37.560 I said, that's not extemporaneous. You're giving me five minutes. 1281 01:10:37.720 --> 01:10:39.399 I said, I want you to hand me my card 1282 01:10:39.760 --> 01:10:41.840 when I get on the podium, and he said, you're 1283 01:10:41.840 --> 01:10:44.600 sure you want to do this, Yes, sir, I did it, 1284 01:10:44.680 --> 01:10:47.760 and I gave a wonderful talk. It was about the 1285 01:10:47.840 --> 01:10:50.960 recite peace treaty or something, but I knew enough about 1286 01:10:50.960 --> 01:10:54.279 it to compare and contrast and get through it. And 1287 01:10:54.359 --> 01:10:56.800 he was impressed, and he said, I bet you can't 1288 01:10:56.800 --> 01:10:58.520 do it again, and I said, I bet I can. 1289 01:11:00.119 --> 01:11:03.439 I could do that every time. And it's just I've 1290 01:11:03.560 --> 01:11:05.880 always read a lot and just have a broad base 1291 01:11:05.920 --> 01:11:08.560 of knowledge, and it has provided me with ability to 1292 01:11:09.640 --> 01:11:12.960 jack of all trades, if you will, polymath. I know 1293 01:11:13.079 --> 01:11:14.840 a little bit about a lot of different things, but 1294 01:11:14.880 --> 01:11:18.399 I'm really not an expert in any area. And in fact, 1295 01:11:18.640 --> 01:11:21.880 nothing scares me away any faster than to be described 1296 01:11:21.920 --> 01:11:24.720 as an expert in the paranormal or cryptis or anything, 1297 01:11:25.119 --> 01:11:27.039 or for somebody to be introduced to me there, well, 1298 01:11:27.079 --> 01:11:30.079 this is Joe Smith. He's an expert in the paranormal. Okay. 1299 01:11:31.000 --> 01:11:33.000 I don't think there are any experts. I think we're 1300 01:11:33.039 --> 01:11:37.319 all on a quest for more knowledge. And I gave 1301 01:11:37.439 --> 01:11:39.800 up looking for the answers a long time ago, Heather, 1302 01:11:39.920 --> 01:11:42.399 I've often said that now I'm just looking for the 1303 01:11:42.399 --> 01:11:45.960 next set of questions. If we had all the answers, 1304 01:11:46.359 --> 01:11:48.560 my journey, my personal journey, wouldn't have been near as 1305 01:11:48.640 --> 01:11:52.640 much fun and enjoyable as it has been, and soriah 1306 01:11:52.640 --> 01:11:55.640 Askath from where the road go. He once quipped it, 1307 01:11:55.640 --> 01:11:58.640 it's like this big jigsaw puzzle that we're trying to 1308 01:11:58.640 --> 01:12:02.680 put together. We don't have the box to even see 1309 01:12:02.680 --> 01:12:05.439 what the picture is that we're trying to make. And 1310 01:12:05.520 --> 01:12:08.079 yet the farther we get into it, we discovered that 1311 01:12:08.119 --> 01:12:12.159 some cosmic joker has mixed maybe a dozen puzzles together. 1312 01:12:12.560 --> 01:12:15.119 So maybe the one that we're working on there are 1313 01:12:15.119 --> 01:12:17.760 pieces that don't fit anywhere. And I thought that was 1314 01:12:17.960 --> 01:12:20.119 very good description. 1315 01:12:21.079 --> 01:12:23.560 Yeah, I agree with that. That seems to be definitely 1316 01:12:23.600 --> 01:12:26.039 the way it is. Always coming away with more questions 1317 01:12:26.039 --> 01:12:29.119 and answers, that's for sure, And that's the. 1318 01:12:29.079 --> 01:12:31.760 Way it's supposed to be. And when I've talked about 1319 01:12:31.840 --> 01:12:37.399 my first full body apparition, long story short of the 1320 01:12:37.439 --> 01:12:39.399 little boy ran out from behind a car that was 1321 01:12:39.399 --> 01:12:44.159 stopped at an intersection. The driver didn't act like he 1322 01:12:44.239 --> 01:12:46.680 saw it or whatever at all, didn't acknowledge it in 1323 01:12:46.720 --> 01:12:50.039 the least ran kund of candy corner down into our yard, 1324 01:12:50.439 --> 01:12:53.680 fell down and disappeared a small child. I didn't take 1325 01:12:53.680 --> 01:12:55.760 my eyes off the spot, went straight to the spot. 1326 01:12:55.920 --> 01:12:59.359 Nothing there, Nothing I could have mistaken for a child. Nothing, 1327 01:13:00.439 --> 01:13:02.800 no hole or anything that somebody could have followed into. 1328 01:13:02.800 --> 01:13:05.880 I knew every inch of that yard, and we lived 1329 01:13:05.960 --> 01:13:08.199 quite a way back off the road, two hundred and 1330 01:13:08.199 --> 01:13:12.800 thirteen feet from the edge of our garage to the 1331 01:13:13.079 --> 01:13:15.000 edge of the road. I measured it later in life 1332 01:13:15.000 --> 01:13:17.800 when I was doing BMX prints, but I was about 1333 01:13:17.840 --> 01:13:19.600 one hundred feet out in the yard. So this happened, 1334 01:13:19.600 --> 01:13:21.800 went right to the spot and nothing there. I even 1335 01:13:21.800 --> 01:13:23.680 went and got a shovel out of my dad's tool 1336 01:13:23.680 --> 01:13:26.199 shed and dug in that spot to see if there 1337 01:13:26.239 --> 01:13:28.720 was something buried there or something. And I told that 1338 01:13:28.840 --> 01:13:32.079 story Transisco Murdock and she said, you know, stay, you've 1339 01:13:32.119 --> 01:13:35.159 never put down that shovel. You're still digging that. I am. 1340 01:13:35.279 --> 01:13:38.399 I'm still looking for the disappearing child. That was what 1341 01:13:38.560 --> 01:13:42.159 started me on my journey. And I asked Mike Granny 1342 01:13:42.199 --> 01:13:47.079 about that. She was very intuitive, self described gypsy witch. 1343 01:13:47.119 --> 01:13:49.600 I don't know where the gypsy part came in, but 1344 01:13:49.920 --> 01:13:53.600 tot fortunes, red tea leaves and coffee grounds, animal and trails, 1345 01:13:53.640 --> 01:13:56.119 things like that. And I asked her about that and 1346 01:13:56.159 --> 01:14:00.000 she said, well, very cryptic answer. Sometimes you see things 1347 01:14:00.079 --> 01:14:02.560 that are meant for you to see. Other times you 1348 01:14:02.600 --> 01:14:04.640 see things that are meant for other people to see 1349 01:14:04.640 --> 01:14:07.479 and you just happen to see it. Sometimes you'll just 1350 01:14:07.520 --> 01:14:10.760 see things that there's no rhyme or reason, no explanation, 1351 01:14:11.000 --> 01:14:15.239 that you'll never know, even in retrospect. So there you go. 1352 01:14:15.359 --> 01:14:18.439 I don't know, and I still don't. But it started 1353 01:14:18.479 --> 01:14:21.079 me on this journey. What was that? It didn't scare me. 1354 01:14:21.479 --> 01:14:23.840 It's just like, what was that? You know, what just happened? 1355 01:14:23.880 --> 01:14:26.760 What did I just witness? And off I went. 1356 01:14:27.640 --> 01:14:29.000 How old were you when that happened? 1357 01:14:29.560 --> 01:14:30.439 I was four? 1358 01:14:31.520 --> 01:14:32.920 Wow? Wow? 1359 01:14:33.680 --> 01:14:35.800 And that's I see. I've talked to a lot of 1360 01:14:35.800 --> 01:14:38.600 people that between the ages of three and five that 1361 01:14:38.720 --> 01:14:42.399 seems to be the prime optimal time to have these 1362 01:14:42.439 --> 01:14:46.359 experiences that either shut you down where you don't care, 1363 01:14:46.600 --> 01:14:48.800 or make you curious for the rest of your life. 1364 01:14:49.359 --> 01:14:50.560 Right, Yeah, but. 1365 01:14:51.119 --> 01:14:55.560 More so it makes you curious. And said that it 1366 01:14:55.640 --> 01:14:58.279 started me on a lifelong quest. And I haven't got 1367 01:14:58.439 --> 01:15:00.920 na for I'm still in that yard, digging with a shovel. 1368 01:15:00.920 --> 01:15:03.399 It's just somebody else's yard in a different shovel now, 1369 01:15:03.479 --> 01:15:06.199 but still looking for your answers. 1370 01:15:06.560 --> 01:15:07.920 I like that. I like that a lot. 1371 01:15:08.920 --> 01:15:11.840 Now the you talked about some of your early experiences. 1372 01:15:11.920 --> 01:15:14.520 Was that the one that kind of sets you on 1373 01:15:14.560 --> 01:15:17.479 this path or where there are several because I had 1374 01:15:17.520 --> 01:15:22.319 other experiences. I had more around the age of between 1375 01:15:22.359 --> 01:15:24.840 five and six, and then again around seven and eight. 1376 01:15:25.159 --> 01:15:27.720 That just it continued on. It just was non stop 1377 01:15:27.840 --> 01:15:30.479 at that point and still that way to a degree. 1378 01:15:31.600 --> 01:15:34.680 But it was you was that your impetus. Was that 1379 01:15:34.840 --> 01:15:37.479 your aha moment when you thought, you know, there's something 1380 01:15:37.479 --> 01:15:39.520 else out here and I got to find out what 1381 01:15:39.560 --> 01:15:39.920 it is? 1382 01:15:40.840 --> 01:15:44.479 Well, I mean I was always intrigued by, like I said, 1383 01:15:44.520 --> 01:15:48.000 watching unsolved mysteries, but beyond that, just in a more 1384 01:15:48.039 --> 01:15:52.479 personal vein. My mom would tell me since I was 1385 01:15:52.520 --> 01:15:54.880 young that she grew up in a haunted house, and 1386 01:15:54.880 --> 01:15:56.680 I would ask her questions about that, like how did 1387 01:15:56.680 --> 01:15:58.720 you know it was haunted? And she told me this 1388 01:15:58.800 --> 01:16:03.800 story about when she was younger that my grandmother had 1389 01:16:03.800 --> 01:16:07.600 bought them a Ouiji board for Christmas, and she technically 1390 01:16:07.600 --> 01:16:10.800 bought it for my aunt, but it was of course, 1391 01:16:10.880 --> 01:16:13.840 you know, that's a group effort for to play a 1392 01:16:13.880 --> 01:16:17.119 wigi board, but or it should be, I guess anyway, 1393 01:16:17.720 --> 01:16:21.520 So they were sitting and playing with the wigi board 1394 01:16:21.560 --> 01:16:24.239 my aunt's freaked out about it, but it started to 1395 01:16:24.560 --> 01:16:26.520 spell out that there was a spirit in the house. 1396 01:16:27.560 --> 01:16:30.039 It said that her name was Elizabeth and that she 1397 01:16:30.159 --> 01:16:34.520 lived in my mother's room. So Mom would tell me 1398 01:16:34.560 --> 01:16:37.239 this story, and she also then ended it with my 1399 01:16:37.319 --> 01:16:39.479 aunt got too freaked out and then had my grandmother 1400 01:16:39.560 --> 01:16:43.399 burn the board, which whatever she had her burn the board. 1401 01:16:44.399 --> 01:16:48.319 So as I would grow up, we would always drive 1402 01:16:48.479 --> 01:16:51.560 past that my mother's childhood home on the way to 1403 01:16:51.680 --> 01:16:53.840 visit my grandparents because they had moved just down the 1404 01:16:53.920 --> 01:16:56.640 road into a different house when they got older, and 1405 01:16:56.640 --> 01:16:58.199 she would always point to the house and she would 1406 01:16:58.239 --> 01:16:59.960 point to the window that was hers, and she'd be like, 1407 01:17:00.039 --> 01:17:03.880 that's Elizabeth's room. And I still know because I live 1408 01:17:03.960 --> 01:17:07.600 not far from that place now which room was Elizabeth's room. 1409 01:17:07.880 --> 01:17:11.640 But I grew up hearing that story, and I was 1410 01:17:11.720 --> 01:17:17.039 in third grade, I believe whenever Mom bought me my 1411 01:17:17.119 --> 01:17:21.000 first Ouiji board, and I would play on that thing 1412 01:17:21.359 --> 01:17:24.319 with my dad, with Mom and my mom's friend that 1413 01:17:24.359 --> 01:17:26.399 would come over and do her hair. She was really 1414 01:17:26.439 --> 01:17:30.760 gifted with tarot cards and Ouiji boards and things like that. 1415 01:17:31.760 --> 01:17:34.640 We would play on it all the time, and it 1416 01:17:35.760 --> 01:17:38.399 just was I guess. There was a Oigi board in 1417 01:17:38.439 --> 01:17:42.199 the house, and it was something that we would get 1418 01:17:42.239 --> 01:17:43.840 on and talk to every once in a while. It's 1419 01:17:43.880 --> 01:17:45.600 not something that I was like addicted to by any 1420 01:17:45.600 --> 01:17:48.079 means or anything like that, but it was something that 1421 01:17:48.159 --> 01:17:49.960 was there. It existed, and it was what it was. 1422 01:17:50.720 --> 01:17:52.640 Mom grew up in a haunted house. She just grew 1423 01:17:52.720 --> 01:17:54.720 up in a haunted house. There wasn't a question about it. 1424 01:17:55.560 --> 01:18:00.039 And I think just growing up in that in that 1425 01:18:00.199 --> 01:18:04.640 realm helped precipitate me being in this world that I'm 1426 01:18:04.640 --> 01:18:07.319 in now. It just was. It just existed. And then 1427 01:18:08.319 --> 01:18:12.279 as far as where Mom grew up, many years later, 1428 01:18:13.239 --> 01:18:16.079 it was after I had started working with small town 1429 01:18:16.119 --> 01:18:19.720 monsters and I started writing for Shannon Legroux for the 1430 01:18:20.119 --> 01:18:23.960 Weird Writer Blog. I decided, let me take some of 1431 01:18:24.000 --> 01:18:25.880 my skills that I've learned as an adult and see 1432 01:18:25.920 --> 01:18:28.560 if I can find any truth to this Elizabeth story. 1433 01:18:29.119 --> 01:18:32.319 So I went to the county courthouse and started looking 1434 01:18:32.399 --> 01:18:36.600 up land records and I found actually there was an 1435 01:18:36.600 --> 01:18:40.239 Elizabeth Lighty that lived in that house. She was on 1436 01:18:40.359 --> 01:18:44.880 the deeds, which in itself was rare because this was 1437 01:18:44.920 --> 01:18:47.319 in the eighteen hundreds to have a female on the deeds, 1438 01:18:47.319 --> 01:18:50.520 but she was there. So there was an Elizabeth that 1439 01:18:50.560 --> 01:18:57.439 lived in that house for real, And it was like 1440 01:18:57.479 --> 01:18:59.600 a full circle moment to have that come back around 1441 01:18:59.800 --> 01:19:01.760 and see that that was something that I could actually 1442 01:19:01.840 --> 01:19:05.520 verify from this childhood story because I just always knew 1443 01:19:05.880 --> 01:19:09.560 the name was Elizabeth and she supposedly lived in that house. 1444 01:19:09.600 --> 01:19:13.079 And sure enough, there she is on paper. If you 1445 01:19:13.159 --> 01:19:16.039 go to the county courthouse, you can find her. But 1446 01:19:16.079 --> 01:19:17.399 that's how I kind of grew up with all of 1447 01:19:17.399 --> 01:19:21.960 this stuff. It just existed. It was there, and without question. 1448 01:19:25.039 --> 01:19:28.880 I had a moment whenever I was younger, I was 1449 01:19:28.960 --> 01:19:34.640 probably in probably in middle school, I would say, when 1450 01:19:35.079 --> 01:19:38.239 my parents had left to go to the store or something. 1451 01:19:39.199 --> 01:19:42.479 They weren't home either way, and I was sitting in 1452 01:19:42.520 --> 01:19:45.159 the living room, playing with the dogs and the cats 1453 01:19:45.199 --> 01:19:47.600 and just watching TV, and all of a sudden, all 1454 01:19:47.600 --> 01:19:53.520 the animals froze and they looked behind me, and it 1455 01:19:53.680 --> 01:19:56.640 threw me off, obviously that they just suddenly stopped and 1456 01:19:56.680 --> 01:19:58.439 they're all staring in the same place. So I turned 1457 01:19:58.439 --> 01:20:01.279 around and looked in the doorway leading to the dining room. 1458 01:20:02.439 --> 01:20:05.720 Right behind me, there was a man standing in the doorway. 1459 01:20:07.840 --> 01:20:11.640 Now he was in like Native American garb. But when 1460 01:20:11.640 --> 01:20:14.960 I first saw him, I just had this calming feeling 1461 01:20:15.119 --> 01:20:19.119 of oh, that's just Dad, you know, like it was 1462 01:20:19.159 --> 01:20:22.880 just a fatherly type feeling. I wasn't concerned, I wasn't scared. 1463 01:20:22.880 --> 01:20:23.920 I just saw him and I was like, oh, And 1464 01:20:23.960 --> 01:20:26.399 I turned back around, and then it caught up to me, 1465 01:20:26.479 --> 01:20:29.760 Wait a second, that's not Dad. When I turned back 1466 01:20:29.800 --> 01:20:31.800 to look a second time, it was gone and the 1467 01:20:31.840 --> 01:20:36.239 animals had resumed back what they were doing. So we 1468 01:20:36.279 --> 01:20:38.359 of course asked the Ouiji Bord about that later, and 1469 01:20:38.520 --> 01:20:40.520 I was told that it was a guardian that was there. 1470 01:20:41.079 --> 01:20:44.199 But I don't know things like that would happen. I 1471 01:20:44.199 --> 01:20:48.720 would hear footsteps go up and down the hallway, because 1472 01:20:48.720 --> 01:20:50.920 there's definitely a way to tell the difference between Mom 1473 01:20:50.920 --> 01:20:53.319 and Dad's footsteps. They sounded differently if they'd get up 1474 01:20:53.319 --> 01:20:54.560 in the middle of the night and walk out to 1475 01:20:54.600 --> 01:20:57.199 get a glass of water or something, and it always 1476 01:20:57.199 --> 01:20:59.479 sounded like Dad getting up and walking. But when I 1477 01:20:59.520 --> 01:21:02.079 would get up to check it wasn't Dad, there would 1478 01:21:02.079 --> 01:21:05.399 be nobody there. So I would think in my head, Oh, 1479 01:21:05.439 --> 01:21:09.359 that's just that guardian walking down the Hallway again. So 1480 01:21:09.399 --> 01:21:11.760 stuff like that is kind of what I grew up 1481 01:21:11.800 --> 01:21:16.199 with and I think helped helped me be the person 1482 01:21:16.239 --> 01:21:16.760 I am now. 1483 01:21:17.199 --> 01:21:20.079 And I agree if you're around it and you're exposed 1484 01:21:20.079 --> 01:21:24.520 to it, especially in the case of my mom, I mean, 1485 01:21:24.680 --> 01:21:29.600 their natural was a supernatural. You know. They had regular seances, 1486 01:21:30.239 --> 01:21:33.920 table tapping or table tapping, Wuiji boards, card readings and stuff. 1487 01:21:34.119 --> 01:21:36.119 They grew up with it and they just didn't know 1488 01:21:36.159 --> 01:21:39.600 any different. And her family were a part of the 1489 01:21:39.600 --> 01:21:42.560 spiritualism movement from around the turn of the last century. 1490 01:21:42.920 --> 01:21:46.319 And the way they got into it initially, they had 1491 01:21:46.640 --> 01:21:50.439 a relative that never came back from World War One 1492 01:21:50.520 --> 01:21:52.279 and they could never find out what happened to and 1493 01:21:52.279 --> 01:21:54.800 I think that ended what nineteen eighteen something like that. 1494 01:21:55.119 --> 01:21:59.079 I'm a little rusty with my figures here, but that 1495 01:21:59.159 --> 01:22:02.520 was how they got into it. And just as a 1496 01:22:02.560 --> 01:22:05.439 little girl, you know, my mom participated in those things. 1497 01:22:05.439 --> 01:22:08.119 He knew about those things and even up till the 1498 01:22:08.159 --> 01:22:10.640 time she married my dad. Prior to them getting married, 1499 01:22:10.640 --> 01:22:12.560 the first time she ever took him to meet her family, 1500 01:22:12.880 --> 01:22:16.680 they were doing a table tapping session. And now my dad, 1501 01:22:17.000 --> 01:22:19.720 he grew up hearts gravel, apple Achia, but he got out, 1502 01:22:19.760 --> 01:22:23.920 went the University of Tennessee, my alma mater, and it 1503 01:22:24.039 --> 01:22:26.720 was already on his path to civil engineering and later 1504 01:22:26.800 --> 01:22:30.640 a scientist. But he said, I, you know, it just 1505 01:22:30.640 --> 01:22:33.560 did mystified him. He said, they sounded like a bunch 1506 01:22:33.600 --> 01:22:37.119 of heathens. They were all sitting around the rise table, Rise, Rise, Rise. 1507 01:22:37.760 --> 01:22:40.359 But he said he looked around at every angle. He 1508 01:22:40.520 --> 01:22:43.119 made sure, you know, nobody had their toe under one 1509 01:22:43.119 --> 01:22:47.680 of the table legs making it rise. Nobody had ruler 1510 01:22:47.760 --> 01:22:50.039 up their sleeve under the table edge, you know, and 1511 01:22:50.039 --> 01:22:52.560 making it lift up. An old parlor magic trick or 1512 01:22:52.600 --> 01:22:56.520 anything like that. He said, there was something unseen force 1513 01:22:56.760 --> 01:22:59.840 raising that table. And he talked about they would even 1514 01:22:59.840 --> 01:23:02.439 take some of the grandkids, or maybe even some of 1515 01:23:02.439 --> 01:23:04.640 the smaller kids at that time because my mom had 1516 01:23:04.760 --> 01:23:07.560 younger siblings, put them on the table and tried to 1517 01:23:07.560 --> 01:23:09.119 get it to rise. And he said that old farm 1518 01:23:09.159 --> 01:23:12.199 table was creaked and groaned and tried every way in 1519 01:23:12.239 --> 01:23:14.239 the world to rise up with that added weight on there, 1520 01:23:14.239 --> 01:23:16.600 and it just couldn't do it. But he said, I 1521 01:23:16.600 --> 01:23:19.359 had no explanation for it. And later in life he 1522 01:23:19.359 --> 01:23:24.000 would talk about things that happened in the laboratory setting. 1523 01:23:24.039 --> 01:23:26.239 He said that there'd be times when they were doing 1524 01:23:26.279 --> 01:23:31.479 an experiment under extremely controlled conditions when things would just 1525 01:23:31.520 --> 01:23:34.359 happen that weren't supposed to happen. They could never get 1526 01:23:34.359 --> 01:23:36.439 it to happen again. They don't know how it happened, 1527 01:23:36.760 --> 01:23:40.039 yet it happened. Some anomalous result, he called it. And 1528 01:23:40.319 --> 01:23:42.960 there used to be a zine that I read back 1529 01:23:42.960 --> 01:23:45.800 in the eighties called the Journal of every Reproducible Results, 1530 01:23:46.119 --> 01:23:49.760 and didn't mention things like that. How sometimes despite everything 1531 01:23:49.880 --> 01:23:54.439 we do, the natural laws that we've made come up with, 1532 01:23:54.560 --> 01:23:59.079 they don't always correspond with supernatural laws and things. And 1533 01:23:59.119 --> 01:24:02.520 to me, that's just fast that. You know, here's a scientist, 1534 01:24:02.560 --> 01:24:05.880 but yet he has a belief in the supernatural, and 1535 01:24:06.720 --> 01:24:09.479 I get it. And he experienced things, you know, when 1536 01:24:09.479 --> 01:24:12.039 he was growing up. Now, they weren't as steeped in 1537 01:24:12.119 --> 01:24:16.760 it as my maternal grandmother and her family, but they 1538 01:24:16.800 --> 01:24:19.640 had their share of it, and tales passed around and 1539 01:24:20.119 --> 01:24:24.600 hauntings and inexplicable things in the woods and stuff. So 1540 01:24:25.039 --> 01:24:27.840 it was there. But I said, on the belief whole 1541 01:24:27.880 --> 01:24:30.960 thing that I was born out of the union of 1542 01:24:31.039 --> 01:24:34.520 science and superstition and I sprang forth with the best 1543 01:24:34.520 --> 01:24:37.319 of both and bewildered, and here I still am. 1544 01:24:37.479 --> 01:24:41.479 So that's work. 1545 01:24:42.319 --> 01:24:44.720 It does. It sticks with you. And I had wage 1546 01:24:44.720 --> 01:24:48.319 board experiences too. I got my first one. I don't 1547 01:24:48.319 --> 01:24:50.239 think I was quite six years old yet. It was 1548 01:24:50.279 --> 01:24:53.520 between kindergarten and first grade, probably that summer. It might 1549 01:24:53.520 --> 01:24:58.199 have been the fall that I started first grade I 1550 01:24:58.239 --> 01:25:01.720 talk about in one of my videos. But I was 1551 01:25:01.760 --> 01:25:04.319 sick that day and been to the doctor. Had ear 1552 01:25:04.359 --> 01:25:07.640 nosen throat problems my entire life, had to have tomsels 1553 01:25:07.640 --> 01:25:10.079 and adenoids out when I was five. That was traumatic. 1554 01:25:10.920 --> 01:25:12.840 Don't catch coals or the flu. The only time I've 1555 01:25:12.840 --> 01:25:14.479 ever had the flu. I took a flu shot in 1556 01:25:14.520 --> 01:25:17.199 nineteen eighty five and got the flu and thought I 1557 01:25:17.239 --> 01:25:19.119 was going to die. I haven't had the flu sense, 1558 01:25:19.159 --> 01:25:20.680 I haven't had a flu shot since, so either that 1559 01:25:20.720 --> 01:25:23.920 one worked really, really good or it gave me the flu. 1560 01:25:24.159 --> 01:25:27.840 But I'd been for some ent malady and we had 1561 01:25:27.840 --> 01:25:31.359 to stop by the drug store to get my prescription filled. 1562 01:25:32.479 --> 01:25:34.920 And I'd wandered back to the toy I my mom 1563 01:25:35.000 --> 01:25:37.159 was going to let me get something, and I saw 1564 01:25:37.199 --> 01:25:38.920 the Weiji board and it was the old box with 1565 01:25:38.960 --> 01:25:41.920 the dark background and the stars and like a blue 1566 01:25:41.920 --> 01:25:45.960 hooded figure on the front of it, like a robed figure. 1567 01:25:46.239 --> 01:25:50.319 What is this? And she kind of explained it to me, like, oh, 1568 01:25:50.359 --> 01:25:52.199 I want one, Can I have it? So she got 1569 01:25:52.239 --> 01:25:56.520 me one, and I still remember sitting in that I 1570 01:25:56.560 --> 01:25:59.439 think it was a sixty two Chevy two, sitting in 1571 01:25:59.439 --> 01:26:02.399 the back seat that with my wage aboard in my lap. 1572 01:26:02.800 --> 01:26:05.239 And then when we got home, opened it up and 1573 01:26:05.279 --> 01:26:07.680 she gave me, you know, some caveats. Don't ask anything 1574 01:26:07.720 --> 01:26:10.680 you don't want it to know, don't do it by yourself, 1575 01:26:10.720 --> 01:26:13.479 don't ask it about your death or somebody's close to 1576 01:26:13.600 --> 01:26:16.880 you death, things like that. Don't invite anything in that 1577 01:26:16.920 --> 01:26:19.960 you meet on the board, you know, just some general 1578 01:26:20.039 --> 01:26:22.920 warnings about it. And then that day we used it, 1579 01:26:23.000 --> 01:26:26.600 and school must have been in session, because I remember 1580 01:26:26.600 --> 01:26:28.680 the first thing I ever asked it was when will 1581 01:26:28.680 --> 01:26:31.760 it snow this year? And it gave a date and 1582 01:26:31.800 --> 01:26:34.840 I marked it on the calendar and I looked forward 1583 01:26:34.920 --> 01:26:37.479 to that date as I love snow, still do. Loved 1584 01:26:37.479 --> 01:26:42.560 a snow day though, who didn't, Yeah, sure enough? A 1585 01:26:42.560 --> 01:26:44.720 couple of days prior to that, No, not going to snow, 1586 01:26:44.760 --> 01:26:49.560 No snow in the forecast, but then overnight where we 1587 01:26:49.640 --> 01:26:51.479 lived there in East Tennessee, there was a load that 1588 01:26:51.640 --> 01:26:54.079 moved south of us. And when that happened and the 1589 01:26:54.079 --> 01:26:56.600 conditions were right with the barometric pressure in the wintertime, 1590 01:26:56.840 --> 01:26:58.920 we get a snow snow dumped ons had a snow 1591 01:26:58.960 --> 01:27:00.159 day on the day it said. 1592 01:27:01.720 --> 01:27:04.640 John Pryor, that's awesome. 1593 01:27:05.760 --> 01:27:08.960 And then the next thing, there was a record of 1594 01:27:09.000 --> 01:27:14.439 circus music that I coveted from kindergarten and wasn't able 1595 01:27:14.479 --> 01:27:16.680 to find it at any of the places I bought records. 1596 01:27:16.720 --> 01:27:19.319 I was a huge, vital connoisseur even as a child, 1597 01:27:19.399 --> 01:27:23.119 even though mostly children's records. But there was this record 1598 01:27:23.159 --> 01:27:25.000 that they'd played for us in kindergarten that I just 1599 01:27:25.119 --> 01:27:32.640 had to have. So we got the wageboard out, we 1600 01:27:32.720 --> 01:27:36.479 consulted it, and it gave us the name of a 1601 01:27:36.520 --> 01:27:40.319 fairly obscure used record store on a market square in 1602 01:27:40.359 --> 01:27:46.279 downtown Knoxville, and sure enough, my mom looked it up 1603 01:27:46.319 --> 01:27:47.960 in the phone book, back when there used to be 1604 01:27:48.000 --> 01:27:50.279 such a thing as a phone book, And back then, 1605 01:27:50.479 --> 01:27:52.199 even though they were just a few miles apart, it 1606 01:27:52.239 --> 01:27:54.960 was long distance to call Knoxville from where we lived 1607 01:27:54.960 --> 01:28:00.159 in Westtox County. We had an Oak Courage number, and 1608 01:28:00.399 --> 01:28:05.560 she called the record store and I gave the title 1609 01:28:05.640 --> 01:28:07.279 of the record to the guy and he said, I 1610 01:28:07.279 --> 01:28:09.199 don't know, I'll look and see. He's like, I've got 1611 01:28:09.279 --> 01:28:11.920 thousands of records in here. He used records, he said, 1612 01:28:11.920 --> 01:28:15.000 but if I run across it, I'll call you. And 1613 01:28:15.039 --> 01:28:17.880 I thought, okay, great, you know I'm not even six yet. 1614 01:28:18.479 --> 01:28:20.840 That's the end of that. I'll just keep looking. But 1615 01:28:20.960 --> 01:28:23.000 sure enough, But if it was later that day or 1616 01:28:23.000 --> 01:28:25.880 maybe the next day, we got a call. It was 1617 01:28:25.920 --> 01:28:27.479 the guy calling back and he said, I was in 1618 01:28:27.520 --> 01:28:29.600 the back. I was looking for something else and I 1619 01:28:29.760 --> 01:28:32.479 just happened to spot that because I'd given a detailed 1620 01:28:32.520 --> 01:28:36.279 description of what the cover looked like. He said that 1621 01:28:36.760 --> 01:28:39.439 just it fell open, and there it was in the stacks, 1622 01:28:39.479 --> 01:28:43.000 back there in my albums, and I've got it here. 1623 01:28:43.039 --> 01:28:44.640 I'll hold it for you if you want me to. 1624 01:28:44.720 --> 01:28:47.399 And of course I begged my mom, and a few 1625 01:28:47.479 --> 01:28:49.720 days later we took the trip downtown. And this was 1626 01:28:49.800 --> 01:28:53.720 back when you shopped downtown. This was before the real 1627 01:28:53.800 --> 01:28:57.199 advent of strip malls or any malls you went downtown 1628 01:28:57.239 --> 01:28:59.199 to went shopping. He had to get dressed up. You know, 1629 01:28:59.279 --> 01:29:02.800 my mom would wear he and pearls and everything. But 1630 01:29:02.880 --> 01:29:04.960 we went downtown. We went some other places. I think 1631 01:29:04.960 --> 01:29:07.600 we went to J. C. Pennies, and we had lunch 1632 01:29:07.640 --> 01:29:12.319 at Crestchi's and things like that, just things that you 1633 01:29:12.359 --> 01:29:15.359 did downtown. We had a certain lot where Weed Park, 1634 01:29:15.399 --> 01:29:18.840 and my mom knew the parking attendant there. Her family 1635 01:29:18.960 --> 01:29:22.279 had sold produce there. At there was a produce market 1636 01:29:22.479 --> 01:29:26.279 not too far from there, a huge one. And sure 1637 01:29:26.359 --> 01:29:28.920 enough we got to the record store, the guy had 1638 01:29:28.960 --> 01:29:30.960 it and I rode home with it in my lap. 1639 01:29:31.199 --> 01:29:35.680 Thank you with you. But again, you know, not everybody 1640 01:29:35.720 --> 01:29:38.439 has a good experience or a positive experience. But Cisco 1641 01:29:38.439 --> 01:29:40.960 and I've talked about that. It's a tool, and a 1642 01:29:41.000 --> 01:29:43.640 lot of it goes on the intent what you're going 1643 01:29:43.720 --> 01:29:46.079 to do with it. These days, I wouldn't touch one. 1644 01:29:46.119 --> 01:29:49.319 I'm not afraid of them. I've had some experiences. Later, 1645 01:29:49.960 --> 01:29:54.600 I'll go ahead and tell that story. I was in college, 1646 01:29:54.640 --> 01:29:58.000 I was working at a little restaurant part time, and 1647 01:29:58.600 --> 01:30:01.520 the guy invited me to party after work. It was 1648 01:30:01.560 --> 01:30:03.640 at an apartment complex just down the road from before 1649 01:30:03.680 --> 01:30:06.000 we were working there in the Cecar Bluff area. Of 1650 01:30:06.000 --> 01:30:09.840 West Knoxville. I thought, sure, I'll go. I didn't really 1651 01:30:09.880 --> 01:30:13.399 want to go study or anything anyway that night and 1652 01:30:13.680 --> 01:30:15.560 I get there. It's in the clubhouse of this big 1653 01:30:15.600 --> 01:30:18.760 apartment complex. I didn't know anybody there besides the guy 1654 01:30:18.760 --> 01:30:21.479 that invited me from working. I didn't really know him 1655 01:30:21.520 --> 01:30:25.279 other than just from work. So they I don't know 1656 01:30:25.279 --> 01:30:26.840 if they had it with him, or if they found 1657 01:30:26.880 --> 01:30:28.880 it or something. But anyway, some girls came up with 1658 01:30:28.880 --> 01:30:32.319 a WIGI board and they decided that they would get 1659 01:30:32.319 --> 01:30:33.520 three or four of them to do it, and they 1660 01:30:33.520 --> 01:30:38.479 would go around this room in the clubhouse and ask questions. 1661 01:30:39.279 --> 01:30:42.840 And they got to me, and the only thing I 1662 01:30:42.880 --> 01:30:46.039 said was what scared me when I was a child, 1663 01:30:46.039 --> 01:30:48.600 and I had a specific, very specific incident in mind. 1664 01:30:48.640 --> 01:30:50.920 It was the thing in the woods that chased me 1665 01:30:50.960 --> 01:30:53.199 out of the woods that I couldn't see. I never 1666 01:30:53.239 --> 01:30:56.000 told that story outside the family at that point. My 1667 01:30:56.079 --> 01:30:59.319 immediate family knew it, but certainly I never told it 1668 01:30:59.359 --> 01:31:01.119 to the guy that I worked with, and none of 1669 01:31:01.159 --> 01:31:03.880 the people at the party knew it. But the girls 1670 01:31:03.880 --> 01:31:05.720 who are working the board. It starts doing the figure 1671 01:31:05.720 --> 01:31:10.760 eight and it spells out W A T E R S. 1672 01:31:10.960 --> 01:31:14.319 P R I t e and they look at me. 1673 01:31:14.439 --> 01:31:17.520 I just kind of shrugged in their water sprite. It's thirsty, 1674 01:31:17.560 --> 01:31:19.680 it wants a drink. Ha ha ha ha. And then 1675 01:31:19.720 --> 01:31:24.199 they went on to somebody else. But my next day off, 1676 01:31:24.239 --> 01:31:25.760 which might have been the next day, I went to 1677 01:31:25.800 --> 01:31:28.640 the big library downtown and I went up to the 1678 01:31:28.680 --> 01:31:30.600 reference desk and I said, what can you tell me 1679 01:31:30.720 --> 01:31:34.199 about a water sprite or a water spirit? The reference 1680 01:31:34.279 --> 01:31:37.439 library and goes off into the stacks. A few months later, 1681 01:31:37.479 --> 01:31:40.399 she comes back. She's got some books there, and she 1682 01:31:40.560 --> 01:31:44.520 showed me a bookie you probably know about this kind 1683 01:31:44.560 --> 01:31:46.880 of stuff. There was two of them. There was a 1684 01:31:46.960 --> 01:31:49.560 naiad and a dryad. One was a spirit of the 1685 01:31:49.600 --> 01:31:51.479 water and the other was the spirit of the woods. 1686 01:31:51.479 --> 01:31:54.239 They're very similar, but there are elementals, a type of 1687 01:31:54.239 --> 01:31:58.039 the fae, if you will. And according to the Luigia Board, 1688 01:31:58.359 --> 01:32:00.359 that's what chased me out of the woods was a 1689 01:32:00.399 --> 01:32:04.039 water spirit. And it wasn't some little gossamer tinker building. 1690 01:32:04.119 --> 01:32:07.760 This thing shook the ground and knocked branches out of 1691 01:32:07.800 --> 01:32:09.960 the way higher than my head. I could see the 1692 01:32:10.039 --> 01:32:12.439 leaves being kicked up in its way. I couldn't see it, 1693 01:32:12.520 --> 01:32:14.319 but I could see the effects it was having on 1694 01:32:14.960 --> 01:32:17.119 the natural environment. Ran me out of the woods, not once, 1695 01:32:17.159 --> 01:32:19.680 but twice, once at eight years old, again at fifteen 1696 01:32:19.760 --> 01:32:23.039 years old. But according to Ouija board, it was a 1697 01:32:23.119 --> 01:32:23.840 faithfolk at all. 1698 01:32:23.960 --> 01:32:29.520 Mental any had Yeah, yep there for some reason. 1699 01:32:30.399 --> 01:32:32.840 Why only me, my dad my brother both went up 1700 01:32:32.840 --> 01:32:35.439 there and looked around. I haven't took I brought a 1701 01:32:35.479 --> 01:32:37.119 kid home with me from school one time. I sent 1702 01:32:37.199 --> 01:32:39.239 him up there to go and stand with the edge 1703 01:32:39.279 --> 01:32:40.960 of the ditch and see if you see anything. And 1704 01:32:41.000 --> 01:32:43.439 I stood way down the hill from behind a tree, 1705 01:32:43.439 --> 01:32:46.159 and he just looked at it, you know, looking around. 1706 01:32:46.199 --> 01:32:48.399 No nothing but nothing came out of the woods and 1707 01:32:48.479 --> 01:32:51.960 chased him around the ditch rather and then I even 1708 01:32:52.000 --> 01:32:54.000 got brave. I went up closer to the edge of 1709 01:32:54.039 --> 01:32:56.079 the ditch and had him stand down the hill didn't 1710 01:32:56.119 --> 01:32:58.920 chase me. But the two times that I went up 1711 01:32:58.920 --> 01:33:00.880 there alone, one a eight and want to get a 1712 01:33:00.960 --> 01:33:03.880 fifteen chase me right out in there. What was that? 1713 01:33:04.119 --> 01:33:06.560 I mean, what do you know anything about a nyad? 1714 01:33:08.640 --> 01:33:11.800 Just basically what you said. Their water spirits than the 1715 01:33:11.880 --> 01:33:18.600 dryads or the wood spirits. They're in classical mythology and 1716 01:33:18.800 --> 01:33:24.039 normally when they're talked about, they're not I mean, any 1717 01:33:24.039 --> 01:33:26.800 spirits from classical mythology don't tend to be like tinkerbellt 1718 01:33:26.840 --> 01:33:29.079 type spirits either, as far as that goes. 1719 01:33:29.199 --> 01:33:31.399 And that's the thing you dig into the faith folk, 1720 01:33:31.520 --> 01:33:35.479 and particularly in Celtic countries where that was almost religion, 1721 01:33:35.600 --> 01:33:39.560 may still be. They're evil creatures. You had to appease them, 1722 01:33:39.560 --> 01:33:42.239 and they would trick you, and they would. There's only 1723 01:33:42.319 --> 01:33:44.880 like one and there's different clans and different types. There's 1724 01:33:44.920 --> 01:33:46.880 one type of them that's kind of nice. I think 1725 01:33:46.920 --> 01:33:50.840 those are pixies or something, but I don't I can't 1726 01:33:50.920 --> 01:33:54.000 articulate all I know about it. But they're not nice things. 1727 01:33:54.039 --> 01:33:59.239 But they describe things like in Ireland, the story I 1728 01:33:59.279 --> 01:34:03.159 wrote from read from the uh these like seventeen hundreds 1729 01:34:03.199 --> 01:34:06.159 maybe early eighteen hundreds about some little men and a 1730 01:34:06.159 --> 01:34:08.560 horseless carriage that came down from the sky. Well there's 1731 01:34:08.560 --> 01:34:11.359 a Ufo experience. Or there were types of them that 1732 01:34:11.399 --> 01:34:13.640 were big hairy men that lived in the woods. There's 1733 01:34:13.720 --> 01:34:17.479 Bigfoot or Sasquatch or Yowie or whatever. It's kind of 1734 01:34:17.479 --> 01:34:20.800 an umbrella that everything else fits under. But you can 1735 01:34:20.840 --> 01:34:24.399 talk to a bigfoot enthusiast or a UFO experiencer and 1736 01:34:24.479 --> 01:34:26.520 mentioned the fae, they'll snicker at you. They're like, oh, 1737 01:34:26.640 --> 01:34:29.600 that doesn't I think it does. I think it all 1738 01:34:29.640 --> 01:34:31.880 ties together. Do you have any thoughts on that. I'm 1739 01:34:32.000 --> 01:34:33.359 sorry to put you on spar here. 1740 01:34:34.279 --> 01:34:37.479 No, it's fine. No. I think that it all ties together, 1741 01:34:37.520 --> 01:34:39.439 and I think that we'd get more. I mean, we 1742 01:34:39.479 --> 01:34:41.720 talked about earlier how you end up with more questions 1743 01:34:41.720 --> 01:34:43.359 than answers, but I think that we'd end up with 1744 01:34:43.439 --> 01:34:45.880 some more answers if we would all kind of work 1745 01:34:45.880 --> 01:34:48.399 together and get over this. Well, you know, this is real, 1746 01:34:48.479 --> 01:34:52.199 but that's not kind of situation. It's all weird, it's 1747 01:34:52.239 --> 01:34:59.439 all strange. So there's definitely corresponding things about UFOs between ghosts, 1748 01:34:59.479 --> 01:35:02.520 between is that just overlap one another. That if we 1749 01:35:02.520 --> 01:35:04.800 were to take the time and actually communicate with one another, 1750 01:35:04.880 --> 01:35:08.119 I think we might have more answers. I'm not saying 1751 01:35:08.119 --> 01:35:10.359 that we would have answers to everything, but we would 1752 01:35:10.399 --> 01:35:12.399 have more than what we have now. At least that's 1753 01:35:12.399 --> 01:35:12.920 my belief. 1754 01:35:13.720 --> 01:35:15.960 I agree, and it would fit it within a broader 1755 01:35:16.039 --> 01:35:19.920 scope from which to to do those studies and things from. 1756 01:35:19.920 --> 01:35:23.840 But yeah, people will fight you over their individual beliefs. 1757 01:35:23.840 --> 01:35:27.159 I've seen that happen at Bigfoot conferences and then when 1758 01:35:27.239 --> 01:35:30.039 I was spoke at to UFO conference in San Francisco 1759 01:35:30.680 --> 01:35:33.680 a couple of years ago. Now, obviously people almost get 1760 01:35:33.720 --> 01:35:35.760 into fist fights over stuff, and you know, like, that's 1761 01:35:35.760 --> 01:35:37.840 not why we're here to argue. We're here to present 1762 01:35:37.880 --> 01:35:41.239 our opinion, not necessarily to defend it, and a lot 1763 01:35:41.279 --> 01:35:43.720 of people don't get that. On this show, I've had 1764 01:35:43.920 --> 01:35:47.199 a couple of pastors on from sialment so far Messianic 1765 01:35:47.239 --> 01:35:51.359 ministries and look at the paranormal and UFOs and things 1766 01:35:51.399 --> 01:35:54.960 like that from not only a biblical perspective, but from 1767 01:35:55.000 --> 01:35:59.560 the perspective of the Tora being Messianic Jews, they follow 1768 01:35:59.600 --> 01:36:03.159 both thea and the Bible, and they have some interesting 1769 01:36:03.199 --> 01:36:06.960 things to say. Again, you know, people, it's it's controversial 1770 01:36:07.000 --> 01:36:09.479 and not everybody's going to agree with it. But I 1771 01:36:09.600 --> 01:36:11.479 like to keep an open mind. You know. I don't think, 1772 01:36:11.640 --> 01:36:15.640 especially when you have something like this, that there are 1773 01:36:15.680 --> 01:36:17.640 no experts in their own, no answers, there is no 1774 01:36:17.880 --> 01:36:20.079 right or wrong opinion. But I like to hear other 1775 01:36:20.119 --> 01:36:23.079 people's opinion. I didn't invite them here, any of the 1776 01:36:23.079 --> 01:36:24.960 times that they've been on to beat them up about 1777 01:36:24.960 --> 01:36:26.600 it or get them to defend it. I just want 1778 01:36:26.640 --> 01:36:28.319 to know what that opinion is. 1779 01:36:29.239 --> 01:36:33.079 Yeah, yeah, exactly, And it's it's weird, like, not only 1780 01:36:33.079 --> 01:36:37.319 do you see the fighting between the different groups between 1781 01:36:37.359 --> 01:36:39.560 like UFOs and ghosts and Bigfoot and things like that, 1782 01:36:39.600 --> 01:36:42.840 but we also as humans apparently like to fight about 1783 01:36:42.840 --> 01:36:45.560 anything we can fight about, and there's infighting even within 1784 01:36:45.680 --> 01:36:52.399 those particular communities. In the Bigfoot community, people take a 1785 01:36:52.479 --> 01:36:54.600 side as to what they think Bigfoot is and then 1786 01:36:54.640 --> 01:36:57.600 that's the only way they don't want to hear any 1787 01:36:57.600 --> 01:36:59.840 other arguments to it. And the same thing with dog. 1788 01:37:00.239 --> 01:37:03.680 I mean, it gets it gets pretty vicious sometimes and 1789 01:37:03.760 --> 01:37:07.159 I just don't understand it. I don't get why why 1790 01:37:07.159 --> 01:37:10.279 we're so drawn to wanting to fight and have all 1791 01:37:10.319 --> 01:37:12.640 of this drama instead of trying to figure things out. 1792 01:37:12.680 --> 01:37:14.720 Like you said, we don't have experts in this field, 1793 01:37:15.840 --> 01:37:19.239 We don't have the answers like that, so what are 1794 01:37:19.239 --> 01:37:20.199 we doing well? 1795 01:37:20.279 --> 01:37:23.079 It reminds me of the movie from the seventies, The Warriors. 1796 01:37:23.079 --> 01:37:25.079 Did you ever see that about the gangs in New 1797 01:37:25.159 --> 01:37:30.239 York City? Cyrus, the leader of all the gangs, was 1798 01:37:30.279 --> 01:37:32.119 trying to tell them that. You know, they said, we're 1799 01:37:32.119 --> 01:37:35.119 here between us. We're fighting over a few square feet 1800 01:37:35.159 --> 01:37:38.199 of sidewalk, our turf. He said, but if we banned together, 1801 01:37:38.560 --> 01:37:41.039 we outnumber everybody or the police and everything, and we 1802 01:37:41.119 --> 01:37:43.560 could run New York City. And then they killed him, 1803 01:37:44.880 --> 01:37:47.800 and that was the whole movie was the warriors got 1804 01:37:47.920 --> 01:37:49.720 blamed for it, and they were trying to make their 1805 01:37:49.720 --> 01:37:52.000 way back to their turf, which was at Cody Island. 1806 01:37:52.840 --> 01:37:56.479 A great movie. It's very dated, but that's always stuck 1807 01:37:56.520 --> 01:37:58.399 with me. You know, we're here fighting over a few 1808 01:37:58.399 --> 01:38:04.520 feet of sidewalk. Band together, we're bigger than everything out there. Yeah, exactly, 1809 01:38:05.000 --> 01:38:06.720 A nice way I worked the name of the show 1810 01:38:06.720 --> 01:38:08.760 and there unintentionally everything out there. 1811 01:38:09.560 --> 01:38:11.359 There you go, perfect. 1812 01:38:11.600 --> 01:38:17.520 Unintended plug there for my own show. Heather, What have 1813 01:38:17.560 --> 01:38:20.119 you got coming up? You mentioned some of the small 1814 01:38:20.119 --> 01:38:22.119 town monster stuff. What else is going on for you? 1815 01:38:23.399 --> 01:38:27.359 Oh? Well, I recently had a short story printed in 1816 01:38:27.560 --> 01:38:31.920 something called The Dark Village. It's an anthology of different 1817 01:38:31.920 --> 01:38:37.079 short stories. Congratulacens, thank you, thank you. That short story 1818 01:38:37.119 --> 01:38:39.880 is called The Wind to Go. That one was a 1819 01:38:39.920 --> 01:38:42.720 lot of fun to write, a different kind of playing 1820 01:38:42.720 --> 01:38:45.640 with perspective a little bit on that. So I've got that, 1821 01:38:47.199 --> 01:38:50.880 and then I have articles in the Feminine Macabre series 1822 01:38:51.159 --> 01:38:56.920 in journals one, three, and five. So I talk about 1823 01:38:57.520 --> 01:39:01.760 cursed objects, particularly the rocks from the bell Witch Cave 1824 01:39:02.199 --> 01:39:05.279 in the first journal, in the third one I talk 1825 01:39:05.359 --> 01:39:09.119 about headless ghosts, and then in the fifth one I 1826 01:39:09.199 --> 01:39:13.479 talk about goat man, which reminds me. I wanted to 1827 01:39:13.520 --> 01:39:15.640 ask you, Steve, if you've heard of any goat man 1828 01:39:15.680 --> 01:39:17.279 stories from Tennessee. 1829 01:39:18.840 --> 01:39:21.680 Not from Tennessee in particular. But let me look into 1830 01:39:21.760 --> 01:39:24.039 my research and I'll get back with you on that. 1831 01:39:24.119 --> 01:39:29.079 I did something about the goat man or goat men recently. 1832 01:39:29.680 --> 01:39:32.359 Martin Nunley wrote a thing for me and I narrated 1833 01:39:32.399 --> 01:39:35.359 it for a project I had called Weird World. But 1834 01:39:35.640 --> 01:39:38.079 I've got some other stuff. Let me look and see. Yes, 1835 01:39:38.640 --> 01:39:42.279 But it's just everything you mentioned there is something that 1836 01:39:42.319 --> 01:39:45.319 I've looked into at one time or another. You mentioned 1837 01:39:45.319 --> 01:39:47.520 the Belle Witch. Now growing up in East Tennessee, that 1838 01:39:47.640 --> 01:39:49.800 was a big deal for me, not as much as 1839 01:39:49.800 --> 01:39:53.319 it was for kids in Middle Tennessee. But I told 1840 01:39:53.399 --> 01:39:56.199 you the story that you'd never heard about, a Bloody 1841 01:39:56.239 --> 01:39:58.840 Mary type game that we played in grade school that 1842 01:39:59.000 --> 01:40:02.640 was based on the bell and we're the same. You 1843 01:40:02.680 --> 01:40:05.560 went into a darkened bathroom and you peered into the mirror, 1844 01:40:06.159 --> 01:40:08.319 and instead of saying bloody Mary three times, you said 1845 01:40:08.359 --> 01:40:11.159 I don't believe in the bell Witch. Three times. She 1846 01:40:11.159 --> 01:40:12.960 would supposed to come out of the mirror and scratch 1847 01:40:13.039 --> 01:40:15.119 you on the face. And I was at a kid 1848 01:40:15.159 --> 01:40:17.960 party one time, on somebody's birthday party. I was maybe 1849 01:40:18.159 --> 01:40:21.079 eight nine years old. The little girl went in the bathroom, 1850 01:40:21.119 --> 01:40:23.239 did that. Sure enough, she came running out screaming, had 1851 01:40:23.359 --> 01:40:26.920 three scratches on her face. Now probably self inflicted, but 1852 01:40:27.039 --> 01:40:30.359 it scared to pants off all the little kids at 1853 01:40:30.359 --> 01:40:31.359 that party. Anyway. 1854 01:40:32.039 --> 01:40:34.680 Well, sure, yeah, you definitely don't want to mess with 1855 01:40:34.720 --> 01:40:36.159 the bell Witch, that's for sure. 1856 01:40:37.399 --> 01:40:39.640 And I also told you the story about how the 1857 01:40:40.000 --> 01:40:42.720 library book at the Big Library in Knoxville was perpetually 1858 01:40:42.800 --> 01:40:45.960 checked out you couldn't find I can't remember the name 1859 01:40:46.000 --> 01:40:48.239 of the book. It was one of the pre eminent 1860 01:40:48.560 --> 01:40:53.359 bell Witch books. And the story that was told when 1861 01:40:53.359 --> 01:40:56.359 it finally did come back after a couple of years, 1862 01:40:56.960 --> 01:41:00.680 it was just said that then it was in the collections. 1863 01:41:00.680 --> 01:41:02.640 You could only look at it there at the library, 1864 01:41:02.880 --> 01:41:05.840 probably because it was a rare book. But the story 1865 01:41:05.880 --> 01:41:08.560 that was told on the playground was that when they 1866 01:41:08.600 --> 01:41:10.840 finally found it, the guy that had checked it out 1867 01:41:11.119 --> 01:41:13.520 for a couple of years was found dead in his 1868 01:41:13.600 --> 01:41:15.279 bed and that was what he was reading, and he 1869 01:41:15.319 --> 01:41:17.800 had been there for some time. Nothing but a skeleton left. 1870 01:41:18.279 --> 01:41:20.399 But they returned the book to the library, and that's 1871 01:41:20.399 --> 01:41:22.680 why nobody could check it out because it was cursed. 1872 01:41:23.840 --> 01:41:25.279 That's quite a story. 1873 01:41:25.560 --> 01:41:30.119 For interesting playground fodder. That would be a book right there. 1874 01:41:30.399 --> 01:41:36.760 The strange things on the playground and people recount their stuff. 1875 01:41:36.800 --> 01:41:39.359 They heard his kids. I've done stuff about urban legends 1876 01:41:39.399 --> 01:41:42.000 and stories, you know, from a friend of a friend, 1877 01:41:42.319 --> 01:41:45.279 the gospel truth. Oh no, that really happened. It happened 1878 01:41:45.279 --> 01:41:47.920 to our neighbors, cousins, uncle's nephew. 1879 01:41:48.479 --> 01:41:51.399 But right, but. 1880 01:41:52.479 --> 01:41:55.800 Nothing shattered my world. As John or Jan Harold Brunvan, 1881 01:41:55.960 --> 01:41:59.760 he's a think he's a professor of folklore and mythology, 1882 01:41:59.840 --> 01:42:02.479 and somewhere in Utah. He put out a book in 1883 01:42:02.520 --> 01:42:04.760 the seventies called The Vashing Hitchhiker was the fast on 1884 01:42:04.840 --> 01:42:07.479 he did the first one. He did a series of books, 1885 01:42:08.199 --> 01:42:10.279 and a lot of those stories I'd heard those as 1886 01:42:10.359 --> 01:42:13.640 gospel truth growing up. No, No, that happened to my cousin. No, 1887 01:42:13.840 --> 01:42:15.840 that one happened to a friend of a lady that 1888 01:42:15.920 --> 01:42:19.680 does my mom's hair. These stories happened, but they didn't. 1889 01:42:19.920 --> 01:42:25.319 And you know, they served as cautionary tales and kept 1890 01:42:25.319 --> 01:42:27.119 me out of some trouble. Probably you know, kept me 1891 01:42:27.159 --> 01:42:29.199 out of the lake because of the water moccasins, or 1892 01:42:29.760 --> 01:42:31.800 kept me from going to the bathroom at all Mart 1893 01:42:31.840 --> 01:42:34.000 because some kid was mutilated and there as part of 1894 01:42:34.239 --> 01:42:37.880 a gang initiation, a runner to Walmart. We had a 1895 01:42:37.920 --> 01:42:40.079 local store there in Knoxville, I think it was local 1896 01:42:40.119 --> 01:42:42.800 called all Mart A L M A R T. And 1897 01:42:42.880 --> 01:42:46.600 the story was that the kid was around his eighth birthday. 1898 01:42:47.319 --> 01:42:49.000 He had gone to the want to go to the 1899 01:42:49.000 --> 01:42:51.079 bathroom by himself, like, Mom, I'm too big to go 1900 01:42:51.079 --> 01:42:52.960 to the lady's room with you. I'll go by myself. 1901 01:42:53.479 --> 01:42:55.279 So she stands there and waits on him. He goes 1902 01:42:55.279 --> 01:42:59.159 to the bathroom, he's gone, gone, gone, gone, never comes out. 1903 01:42:59.239 --> 01:43:01.680 Instead of going in looking for him, next person, the 1904 01:43:01.720 --> 01:43:03.680 next mail that starts and she said, sir, would you 1905 01:43:03.680 --> 01:43:05.880 tell me if there's a little boy in there, and 1906 01:43:05.920 --> 01:43:08.479 describes it guy goes in, he comes running back out. 1907 01:43:08.479 --> 01:43:11.520 He said, lady, you better get in there with him. 1908 01:43:11.520 --> 01:43:12.960 I'm going to go up front and ask him to 1909 01:43:13.000 --> 01:43:16.520 call an ambulance. And as part of a gang initiation, 1910 01:43:16.600 --> 01:43:19.000 and she had mentioned earlier in the story that she 1911 01:43:19.039 --> 01:43:21.760 saw three dirty looking boys come out of there, three 1912 01:43:22.600 --> 01:43:25.279 trashy looking boys come out. Well, they've been part of 1913 01:43:25.319 --> 01:43:29.239 a gang. And as part of initiation, they castrated this 1914 01:43:29.279 --> 01:43:33.359 little boy, Oh my godness, through his member in the 1915 01:43:33.399 --> 01:43:35.279 parking lot where it was run over by a car 1916 01:43:35.319 --> 01:43:38.039 and couldn't be saved. He had to have a sexual 1917 01:43:38.039 --> 01:43:42.359 reassignment surgery and change schools. But wow, as a kid 1918 01:43:42.399 --> 01:43:44.880 and believed every single word of it. I was just 1919 01:43:44.960 --> 01:43:47.119 there with by parents. One time I had to go 1920 01:43:47.119 --> 01:43:49.760 to the bathroom. I couldn't even find my mom and dad. 1921 01:43:50.119 --> 01:43:53.640 So instead of raving this was the almart on Clinton Highway, 1922 01:43:54.079 --> 01:43:56.640 instead of going in there by myself, I went outside 1923 01:43:56.760 --> 01:43:59.359 around the building, around in the back in the dark 1924 01:43:59.800 --> 01:44:02.720 and eat on the wall. It was a much more 1925 01:44:02.840 --> 01:44:07.800 danger back there. But yeah, that was so ingrained in 1926 01:44:07.800 --> 01:44:09.239 my head that I'm not going to go to the 1927 01:44:09.239 --> 01:44:11.159 bathroom in there. I know what happens, and there I'll 1928 01:44:11.159 --> 01:44:16.680 go outside be by the dumpster. But again that story 1929 01:44:16.800 --> 01:44:18.760 was in there that I think the ever Penis was 1930 01:44:18.760 --> 01:44:21.279 the name of it. But again I heard that as 1931 01:44:21.359 --> 01:44:24.119 gospel truth and believed it. And the one about the 1932 01:44:24.159 --> 01:44:26.840 Avon lady that wasn't an Avon lady, that was a 1933 01:44:27.880 --> 01:44:30.079 man in a dress, and in his Avon sample bag 1934 01:44:30.119 --> 01:44:31.760 he had a hatchet and a hank of rope and 1935 01:44:31.800 --> 01:44:34.520 some handcuffs, you know, and all that, Oh my goodness. 1936 01:44:34.680 --> 01:44:38.159 And the beauty shop, the beauty parlor, and back in 1937 01:44:38.479 --> 01:44:41.439 by day in the late sixties early seventies, a lot 1938 01:44:41.479 --> 01:44:43.680 of women, particularly in our community in East Tennessee, they 1939 01:44:43.720 --> 01:44:46.880 would have those shops in their basement. Not only did 1940 01:44:46.880 --> 01:44:48.960 they make a few extra bucks doing hair, but they 1941 01:44:48.960 --> 01:44:53.520 got all the neighborhood gossip. I heard similar stories from both. 1942 01:44:53.800 --> 01:44:56.239 My mom got her hair done two different ladies because 1943 01:44:56.279 --> 01:44:59.800 they were both friends her friends, so she alternated. But 1944 01:45:00.840 --> 01:45:04.159 heard those stories at both beauty shops. When I would 1945 01:45:04.199 --> 01:45:06.399 tell you along and sitting with the dryer chairs, well, 1946 01:45:06.479 --> 01:45:09.600 my mom was getting a permanent But again I grow up. 1947 01:45:09.640 --> 01:45:11.479 And some of the others are the one about the 1948 01:45:12.239 --> 01:45:15.079 kid water skiing and running into a nest of water, 1949 01:45:15.159 --> 01:45:17.359 moccasins and dying before they could get them out of 1950 01:45:17.359 --> 01:45:20.880 the water. My aunt from Alabama told that that it 1951 01:45:20.960 --> 01:45:23.119 happened to a friend that her or kid that her 1952 01:45:23.159 --> 01:45:26.399 son went to school with in Scottsboro, Alabama. Never happened, 1953 01:45:26.880 --> 01:45:30.720 but again, there was just such a part of childhood 1954 01:45:31.199 --> 01:45:32.159 and things. 1955 01:45:32.520 --> 01:45:35.000 Yeah, that's what you were talking about, the book always 1956 01:45:35.039 --> 01:45:37.119 being checked out or reminds me of the book that 1957 01:45:37.199 --> 01:45:39.680 was always checked out when I was in elementary school 1958 01:45:39.720 --> 01:45:45.319 with scary stories to tell in the dark, and that 1959 01:45:45.319 --> 01:45:48.079 that one had very similar things. It had well all 1960 01:45:48.159 --> 01:45:51.359 kinds of scary stories, so to speak, but mostly urban legends. 1961 01:45:51.399 --> 01:45:54.479 And so there were stories of like the spot, you know, 1962 01:45:54.479 --> 01:45:56.760 where somebody had what looked like a pimple on their face, 1963 01:45:56.800 --> 01:46:01.239 but it was actually spider eggs had been nested on 1964 01:46:01.279 --> 01:46:02.880 their face and then it would just explode, and there 1965 01:46:03.079 --> 01:46:03.920 spiders everywhere. 1966 01:46:05.000 --> 01:46:07.640 Urban legend too, and yep, the deal that I heard 1967 01:46:07.680 --> 01:46:10.520 from the sixties was it was a boufont hair. The 1968 01:46:11.000 --> 01:46:13.520 girl had her hair piled up and rather than take 1969 01:46:13.520 --> 01:46:16.119 it down, she just kept lacquering it with hairspray until 1970 01:46:16.119 --> 01:46:19.479 it was just a solid, massive hair and spiders got 1971 01:46:19.479 --> 01:46:22.880 in there and laid eggs and hatched out and they 1972 01:46:22.880 --> 01:46:25.239 were like eating into her brain or something. I don't know. 1973 01:46:25.279 --> 01:46:28.600 It was frightening, but yeah, that's another one of those. 1974 01:46:28.640 --> 01:46:30.680 Oh it had happened, but it didn't, you know. 1975 01:46:31.079 --> 01:46:35.680 Yeah, but learning tools, trying to scare the kids. 1976 01:46:35.840 --> 01:46:38.359 Yeah, and I'm just getting into the stories told in 1977 01:46:38.399 --> 01:46:40.680 the dark. My wife's from that era. She was born 1978 01:46:40.680 --> 01:46:44.079 in eighty five, and I've come to appreciate those in 1979 01:46:44.119 --> 01:46:47.520 the Goosebumps series. I never really paid much attention to those, 1980 01:46:47.600 --> 01:46:50.319 but she was big into that. So we've got a 1981 01:46:50.319 --> 01:46:55.159 collection of R. L. Steinbooks going here. And I loved 1982 01:46:55.199 --> 01:46:59.000 the Scholastic stuff when I was a kid, Missus Coverlets, 1983 01:46:59.039 --> 01:47:02.520 Magicians and what was the other one that I absolutely 1984 01:47:02.600 --> 01:47:06.760 adored The Mad Scientists Club by Burton Brindley. And it's 1985 01:47:06.840 --> 01:47:12.680 just those books just spurred me on. And there was 1986 01:47:12.680 --> 01:47:16.640 a lot of spooky stuff back then too, and Frank 1987 01:47:16.760 --> 01:47:21.079 Edwards books Strange World, Stranger than science, Stranger than fiction. 1988 01:47:22.239 --> 01:47:25.279 I read a lot of that was introduction to a 1989 01:47:25.319 --> 01:47:28.760 lot of stuff within the paranormal realm and supernatural for me, 1990 01:47:28.840 --> 01:47:31.640 and everything in there wasn't supernatural, so it was just strange. 1991 01:47:31.720 --> 01:47:36.119 But had away the David Lang disappearance with the guy 1992 01:47:36.159 --> 01:47:39.319 I was walking across the field and disappeared in full 1993 01:47:39.399 --> 01:47:41.760 view of his wife and children and the two guys 1994 01:47:41.760 --> 01:47:44.000 and a bugy coming up the road. That was the 1995 01:47:44.039 --> 01:47:45.600 first place I ever heard that was in a Frank 1996 01:47:45.720 --> 01:47:50.920 Edwards book. So books of the Key, yeah, were always 1997 01:47:50.960 --> 01:47:52.920 an escape for me. I didn't have any friends, but 1998 01:47:52.960 --> 01:47:54.079 I had a lot of books. 1999 01:47:54.720 --> 01:47:59.000 Yeah. We used to have this, We used to have 2000 01:47:59.039 --> 01:48:04.720 this program called riff Reading is Fundamentals. Yeah, And that's 2001 01:48:05.039 --> 01:48:08.479 where I got introduced to a series called The Bailey 2002 01:48:08.560 --> 01:48:11.640 school Kids. And the first the first book that I 2003 01:48:11.640 --> 01:48:13.199 picked up from that series happened to be the first 2004 01:48:13.239 --> 01:48:15.600 book from the series, luckily, but it was called Vampires 2005 01:48:15.640 --> 01:48:19.640 Don't Wear Polka Dots. And it follows these kids that 2006 01:48:20.640 --> 01:48:23.800 every time there's like a new teacher, a new janitor something, 2007 01:48:23.880 --> 01:48:27.520 they have this theory that they're a vampire. Another one's 2008 01:48:27.560 --> 01:48:29.560 like ghostone eat potato chips or whatever. 2009 01:48:30.279 --> 01:48:34.319 And she's a fan of those. I need to read those. 2010 01:48:34.840 --> 01:48:37.720 They are so good. I have like the first twenty 2011 01:48:37.760 --> 01:48:40.039 sum still from whenever I was a child. I've got 2012 01:48:40.079 --> 01:48:44.079 them on the shelf over here. But that also brought 2013 01:48:44.079 --> 01:48:45.760 me into that world because there was a big foot one, 2014 01:48:45.800 --> 01:48:47.880 there was a werewolf one, there was a vampire one, 2015 01:48:47.920 --> 01:48:51.199 there was a goblin. I think there was even like well, 2016 01:48:51.239 --> 01:48:54.840 I know there was a leprechaun one. But yeah, they 2017 01:48:54.960 --> 01:48:56.800 they covered all kinds of things like that, and so 2018 01:48:57.479 --> 01:48:59.640 I read more of those than I did the Goosebump series. 2019 01:48:59.680 --> 01:49:02.119 I did read Goosebumps, but I was into the Bailey 2020 01:49:02.159 --> 01:49:03.359 school kids a little bit more. 2021 01:49:04.960 --> 01:49:09.239 And this was another touchstone for her. Are you Afraid 2022 01:49:09.239 --> 01:49:10.920 of the Dark? Did you watch those? 2023 01:49:11.520 --> 01:49:12.760 Yes? Yes I did. 2024 01:49:14.079 --> 01:49:16.800 And in fact, that's one of the names she uses 2025 01:49:16.840 --> 01:49:23.000 on YouTube is Midnight Society, and that's that's how I 2026 01:49:23.039 --> 01:49:26.199 first noticed her when she was coming and listening to me. 2027 01:49:26.680 --> 01:49:29.000 That name stood out to me in the chat and 2028 01:49:29.039 --> 01:49:31.640 it just kind of went from there. But we watched 2029 01:49:31.680 --> 01:49:33.760 those and I'm a big fan. I watch them as 2030 01:49:33.800 --> 01:49:38.319 an adult. I was in college, but I love those shows. 2031 01:49:38.319 --> 01:49:41.479 And DJ McHale, who wrote a lot of those and 2032 01:49:41.520 --> 01:49:43.479 a lot of them under a pen name because he 2033 01:49:43.479 --> 01:49:45.920 didn't want his name all over everything. He's a friend 2034 01:49:45.920 --> 01:49:47.800 of mine. I'm going to have him on the show sometimes. 2035 01:49:48.439 --> 01:49:51.560 He influenced the whole generation the kids there, and for 2036 01:49:51.600 --> 01:49:54.479 a kids show, and you'll see if you agree here 2037 01:49:54.520 --> 01:49:58.319 that was some of the scariest stuff ever on television. Yeah. 2038 01:49:58.560 --> 01:50:00.800 Yeah, they did a good job with that, that's for sure. 2039 01:50:03.600 --> 01:50:05.920 And I'd like to talk to ri al Stein too. 2040 01:50:06.199 --> 01:50:10.439 I've got some juvenile fiction of that turn in the works, 2041 01:50:10.479 --> 01:50:14.039 and my wife's working on a book too, that in 2042 01:50:14.079 --> 01:50:18.319 that same vein, and it's gonna be a lot of fun. 2043 01:50:18.439 --> 01:50:20.960 And I love the idea of writing for kids, but 2044 01:50:21.039 --> 01:50:23.560 I just I don't know. I'll turned sixty last year. 2045 01:50:23.560 --> 01:50:25.159 I don't know if I'm so far out of touch 2046 01:50:25.199 --> 01:50:28.319 that I couldn't write for this generation of kids. But 2047 01:50:28.479 --> 01:50:29.800 I'd like to give it a try. 2048 01:50:30.520 --> 01:50:34.439 Right, I think you should do it. I support this wholeheartedly. 2049 01:50:34.920 --> 01:50:39.560 Okay, well, thank you. But now you mentioned the Weird 2050 01:50:39.560 --> 01:50:42.439 Writer Blog. There was some of your articles over there 2051 01:50:42.479 --> 01:50:44.640 that I wanted you to do for thirteen Past Midnight, 2052 01:50:44.680 --> 01:50:48.600 and you did, thankfully. Do you still write for that? 2053 01:50:48.640 --> 01:50:50.199 Does Heather still do that? I've been out of the 2054 01:50:50.199 --> 01:50:52.479 loop on a lot of this peripheral stuff for a while. 2055 01:50:52.479 --> 01:50:53.600 I'm not sure what's going on. 2056 01:50:54.920 --> 01:50:56.880 No, I haven't written for Shannon in a while. 2057 01:50:57.800 --> 01:50:59.319 Did I say, Heather? I meant Shannon. 2058 01:50:59.399 --> 01:51:04.279 Yeah, yeah, it's okay. She She basically got to a 2059 01:51:04.279 --> 01:51:06.760 point where she was like, listen, you need to start 2060 01:51:06.760 --> 01:51:09.640 writing for yourself and get get more things out there. 2061 01:51:10.680 --> 01:51:11.880 Quit quit writing for me. 2062 01:51:13.560 --> 01:51:18.880 Uh good. One that particularly stands out is Witches and 2063 01:51:18.960 --> 01:51:20.279 silver Bullets. 2064 01:51:20.800 --> 01:51:22.760 Yes, you remember that one. 2065 01:51:23.000 --> 01:51:25.159 And I think you narrated that one as well, and 2066 01:51:25.199 --> 01:51:29.000 that I you know, always heard about the silver bullet 2067 01:51:29.079 --> 01:51:31.560 as you know, the way to fend off the wolf man, 2068 01:51:32.159 --> 01:51:34.800 but I'd never heard of it being used against witches. 2069 01:51:34.840 --> 01:51:36.560 So that was educational for me. 2070 01:51:37.880 --> 01:51:41.199 Yeah, yeah, that's I had found a lot of that 2071 01:51:41.359 --> 01:51:45.239 in uh Patrick Gainor's Witches, Ghosts and Signs. There are 2072 01:51:45.640 --> 01:51:48.319 stories in there about the silver bullet. And even in 2073 01:51:48.359 --> 01:51:51.159 the Bell Witch story there was a guy who claimed 2074 01:51:51.199 --> 01:51:52.880 to be a witch hunter came in with a silver 2075 01:51:52.920 --> 01:51:56.720 bullet waving it around, saying that he could handle the witch, 2076 01:51:57.000 --> 01:51:58.920 and of course she put him to shame and had 2077 01:51:59.000 --> 01:52:03.920 him running out crying by the end of it. But yeah, 2078 01:52:04.000 --> 01:52:06.039 it is something like you said, most people think about 2079 01:52:06.159 --> 01:52:10.319 it's keeping the werewolves away, but witches are known to 2080 01:52:10.359 --> 01:52:13.039 be that's one of their weaknesses. Of silver bullets. 2081 01:52:13.520 --> 01:52:16.039 Now, my granny used garlic and even though she was 2082 01:52:16.039 --> 01:52:18.840 a self proclaimed witch, there were other witches that she 2083 01:52:18.880 --> 01:52:22.439 didn't want anything to do with. And the old farmhouse 2084 01:52:22.520 --> 01:52:25.920 she lived in, old Victorian farmhouse had the old keyholes 2085 01:52:26.039 --> 01:52:28.159 in the doors, and she would put a cloak of 2086 01:52:28.199 --> 01:52:31.039 garlic in there to keep witches from coming through the keyhole. 2087 01:52:31.039 --> 01:52:32.399 Have you ever heard anything like that? 2088 01:52:33.199 --> 01:52:36.000 Yeah, well, not putting garlic in there, but definitely heard 2089 01:52:36.039 --> 01:52:38.520 about them coming through the keyhole and shape shifting into 2090 01:52:38.560 --> 01:52:41.159 like black cats and things like that to get into They. 2091 01:52:41.039 --> 01:52:45.039 Could come down the fireplace too. And what was the 2092 01:52:45.079 --> 01:52:47.520 other thing she used to do now, of course, when 2093 01:52:47.520 --> 01:52:49.960 anybody died, they hung cloth over the mirror, but that 2094 01:52:50.039 --> 01:52:51.880 was to keep the spirit from getting trapped in the house. 2095 01:52:52.680 --> 01:52:55.680 Their porches, the feeling of the porch, the roof of 2096 01:52:55.720 --> 01:52:58.520 the porch, the underneath of it, anyway, was always painted 2097 01:52:58.560 --> 01:53:00.279 haint and blue. Have you ever heard of this story 2098 01:53:00.319 --> 01:53:04.840 behind that? Yes, that a spirit coming up to enter 2099 01:53:04.880 --> 01:53:06.960 the house up to no good would look up and 2100 01:53:07.000 --> 01:53:08.680 see that and think it was the sky and fly 2101 01:53:08.840 --> 01:53:12.880 up through the porch roof and be gone. Must have worked, 2102 01:53:12.920 --> 01:53:19.079 because I don't think our house was hatted. But I 2103 01:53:19.239 --> 01:53:23.000 really enjoy a lot of the folklore and stuff, particularly 2104 01:53:23.079 --> 01:53:25.479 from the Southern Appleatches. I mean, that's where I grew up, 2105 01:53:25.520 --> 01:53:28.800 but sounds like there's parts of that in the Appleatches 2106 01:53:28.840 --> 01:53:31.720 that are close to you there too than the northern part. 2107 01:53:32.159 --> 01:53:36.239 Oh yeah, yeah, It's definitely been interesting to look at 2108 01:53:36.239 --> 01:53:38.159 some of the overlap between the Northern and the Southern 2109 01:53:38.199 --> 01:53:42.399 Appalaches and our stories. It's just that it seems like 2110 01:53:42.560 --> 01:53:46.720 there was a higher degree of storytelling in general in 2111 01:53:46.720 --> 01:53:50.960 the Southern Appleaches, if that makes sense, and that seems 2112 01:53:51.000 --> 01:53:54.640 to be written down more, at least officially written down 2113 01:53:54.680 --> 01:53:57.319 more in books than there were in the Northern Appalachians. 2114 01:53:57.359 --> 01:54:00.520 And I find that kind of sad, and. 2115 01:54:00.520 --> 01:54:02.960 I attribute to that to people like, uh, you may 2116 01:54:03.000 --> 01:54:04.319 have never heard of them. But there was a guy 2117 01:54:04.319 --> 01:54:07.640 in Knoxville that wrote in the paper named Bert Vincent 2118 01:54:07.760 --> 01:54:10.000 and he had to call Umn on Sundays. I think 2119 01:54:10.000 --> 01:54:12.359 it was like just walking about or something like that. 2120 01:54:13.039 --> 01:54:15.640 He had two volumes out of there was a little 2121 01:54:15.640 --> 01:54:17.119 bit of everything in there, but there was a lot 2122 01:54:17.159 --> 01:54:20.399 of hate and booger and witch tales from the Smokies 2123 01:54:20.439 --> 01:54:23.600 in that area. And had both those books growing up, 2124 01:54:23.640 --> 01:54:26.720 had them around the house. An autograph copy of one 2125 01:54:26.760 --> 01:54:29.319 of them that my mom had picked up somewhere. But 2126 01:54:30.039 --> 01:54:32.239 it was just a part of that, the oral tradition 2127 01:54:32.279 --> 01:54:35.319 and the written tradition. You had people like him look 2128 01:54:35.399 --> 01:54:38.119 for him on Amazon. Hey by this interesting Burt Vincent 2129 01:54:39.239 --> 01:54:44.079 columns for the Knoxville News Sentinel and another person that 2130 01:54:44.199 --> 01:54:47.880 kind of carried that on wash And I can't remember 2131 01:54:47.880 --> 01:54:52.319 the guy's name now, Sam Sam Somebody had Full of 2132 01:54:52.359 --> 01:54:54.399 Thumbs and two left Feet is the name of his book, 2133 01:54:55.199 --> 01:54:59.439 But yeah, wrote I call him later in the kind 2134 01:54:59.439 --> 01:55:01.239 of the same and bird had picked it up, and 2135 01:55:01.279 --> 01:55:03.840 I think Carson Burg or somebody like that. But that 2136 01:55:04.279 --> 01:55:06.319 opened a lot of tales. Of course, the Foxfire books. 2137 01:55:06.359 --> 01:55:09.439 I think it's Foxfire Volume two that has the hains 2138 01:55:09.439 --> 01:55:10.680 and witches and stuff in it. 2139 01:55:11.279 --> 01:55:13.159 That was also on my shelf right now, I'm looking 2140 01:55:13.239 --> 01:55:13.560 right back. 2141 01:55:14.239 --> 01:55:18.359 I love that one. And of course Charles own Price 2142 01:55:19.399 --> 01:55:21.399 was from the South and he wrote a lot about 2143 01:55:21.600 --> 01:55:26.119 little towns, in particular Haunted Jonesborough, Haunted Knoxville, Haunted Nashville, 2144 01:55:26.760 --> 01:55:29.960 and his Canada works. I think he's passed on now, 2145 01:55:30.520 --> 01:55:35.439 but anybody that's interested in Southern hauntings things are his books. Well. 2146 01:55:35.439 --> 01:55:40.239 Srry Well then, of course was it thirteen Alabama Ghosts 2147 01:55:40.239 --> 01:55:43.399 and Jeffrey. I can't remember the lady's name, but she 2148 01:55:43.439 --> 01:55:48.640 did Alabama, Georgia, I think Tennessee too, and Jeffrey was 2149 01:55:48.680 --> 01:55:50.960 her resident ghost. But she wrote a lot of those 2150 01:55:51.000 --> 01:55:54.720 tales out and then of course in historic Jonesboro, Tennessee. 2151 01:55:54.760 --> 01:55:57.039 You have to say that historic part. They're proud of that. 2152 01:55:57.640 --> 01:56:01.800 They have the International Storytelling Convention October. I've been there 2153 01:56:01.960 --> 01:56:05.560 as in the audience, but I've never been there as 2154 01:56:05.560 --> 01:56:09.000 a participant. But that is some fun to hear those 2155 01:56:09.039 --> 01:56:11.960 stories come to life from good storytellers. 2156 01:56:12.319 --> 01:56:15.439 I bet that sounds like a great place to go. 2157 01:56:16.359 --> 01:56:19.119 Now we talked about the bell Witch Cave. We're almost 2158 01:56:19.119 --> 01:56:21.920 out of time here, but have you ever visited the 2159 01:56:21.960 --> 01:56:23.840 Belwitch Cave for the grounds there? 2160 01:56:24.479 --> 01:56:26.800 Yes, yes, I've been down to Adams, Tennessee a couple 2161 01:56:26.760 --> 01:56:28.680 of times. The first time that I went down, I 2162 01:56:28.680 --> 01:56:30.960 actually wasn't able to go to the cave because there 2163 01:56:30.960 --> 01:56:33.960 had been torrential downpours in the cave flood. 2164 01:56:33.800 --> 01:56:37.600 Red River floods like you wouldn't believe right there. But yeah, Christo, 2165 01:56:38.079 --> 01:56:40.199 the owner or her husband own that. She's a friend 2166 01:56:40.199 --> 01:56:44.920 of mine and the first time that I went, there 2167 01:56:44.960 --> 01:56:49.039 was nobody there who got like a personal tour. She's 2168 01:56:49.079 --> 01:56:52.479 got photographs coming back then. This was in the early nineties. 2169 01:56:52.760 --> 01:56:55.039 She had a couple of photo albums full of pictures 2170 01:56:55.079 --> 01:56:57.359 that she had taken, a full of pictures that people 2171 01:56:57.399 --> 01:57:00.399 had sent back of anominal of stuff down there. I 2172 01:57:00.399 --> 01:57:03.199 had my first digital camera and no Kodak had like 2173 01:57:03.279 --> 01:57:06.039 half a megapixel I think. But I got some weird 2174 01:57:06.119 --> 01:57:10.279 pictures there too. But if anybody has an interest in 2175 01:57:10.319 --> 01:57:12.960 that at all, it's worth checking out. Certainly. 2176 01:57:13.159 --> 01:57:13.800 Absolutely. 2177 01:57:14.079 --> 01:57:14.279 Yeah. 2178 01:57:14.760 --> 01:57:17.159 When I was there and actually got to go to 2179 01:57:17.199 --> 01:57:19.479 the cave, it was a similar situation. I had to 2180 01:57:19.520 --> 01:57:21.720 wait for more people to show up for them to 2181 01:57:21.760 --> 01:57:24.399 do a tour. So I sat with Chris and talked 2182 01:57:24.399 --> 01:57:26.800 with her for probably an hour or two hours before 2183 01:57:27.119 --> 01:57:28.920 enough people showed up and they're like, Okay, now we 2184 01:57:28.960 --> 01:57:29.800 can go into the cave. 2185 01:57:30.199 --> 01:57:32.439 Yeah. I think she had a couple of little books 2186 01:57:32.439 --> 01:57:35.119 that she sold. I bought those, and then it's before 2187 01:57:35.119 --> 01:57:37.439 she had the gift shop, and we sat out there. 2188 01:57:37.479 --> 01:57:39.479 There was like a gazebo or a picnic table or 2189 01:57:39.479 --> 01:57:42.000 something up there, and she showed me all these pictures 2190 01:57:42.319 --> 01:57:44.439 and then talked about all the stuff that people have 2191 01:57:44.560 --> 01:57:45.800 taken that's come back. 2192 01:57:46.600 --> 01:57:49.520 Yeah, yep, exactly. That's where you get into the cursed objects, 2193 01:57:49.600 --> 01:57:52.439 the rocks and things. And even now now, what she 2194 01:57:52.520 --> 01:57:55.560 does is she'll get porcelain dolls and paint them up 2195 01:57:55.560 --> 01:57:58.880 to look like zombies or something grotesque and sell them. 2196 01:57:59.359 --> 01:58:01.880 And they're getting sent back now as well. 2197 01:58:03.680 --> 01:58:05.000 That way, should just sell them again. 2198 01:58:05.680 --> 01:58:07.119 Yeah, that's exactly what she does. 2199 01:58:07.279 --> 01:58:08.680 A lot of times when they're not there and they 2200 01:58:08.720 --> 01:58:10.439 locked the gate, she said come back, and there would 2201 01:58:10.439 --> 01:58:12.760 be a rock or something with a note tied to it. 2202 01:58:12.800 --> 01:58:14.560 So I took this out of the cave. I'm sorry, 2203 01:58:14.560 --> 01:58:16.479 please put it back. It was near this place or 2204 01:58:16.479 --> 01:58:18.960 that place, and I get it. There's a lot of 2205 01:58:18.960 --> 01:58:22.720 places like that, petrified forest, other caves, Mammoth Cave. There's 2206 01:58:22.760 --> 01:58:25.159 places where you just don't take stuff because you might 2207 01:58:25.520 --> 01:58:28.159 take home more than you bargained with. The troll bridge 2208 01:58:28.199 --> 01:58:32.319 outside of Portland, Oregon, I've heard weird stories about people 2209 01:58:32.319 --> 01:58:34.279 that took troll dolls from there. You're supposed to leave them, 2210 01:58:34.359 --> 01:58:38.199 not take them. But anyway, we're almost out of time 2211 01:58:38.239 --> 01:58:40.399 for this episode. Thank you for joining us here on 2212 01:58:40.479 --> 01:58:43.880 everything out there. Any parting words for the audience. 2213 01:58:44.920 --> 01:58:50.159 Well, thanks for having me. I've loved being here. Parting words, man, 2214 01:58:50.279 --> 01:58:52.359 just stay weird, stay. 2215 01:58:52.159 --> 01:58:55.920 Weird, better weird than plastic. I love it all right. 2216 01:58:55.960 --> 01:58:57.880 And I'll leave links to the show notes where you 2217 01:58:57.920 --> 01:59:01.359 can find small Town Monsters. And again, Heather, thank you 2218 01:59:01.399 --> 01:59:05.039 for joining us. Go ahead and sign off here once again, 2219 01:59:05.079 --> 01:59:07.319 you've been listening to everything out there on the Clyde 2220 01:59:07.399 --> 01:59:11.000 Lewis Ground zero Radio Network. I'm Steve Stockton. I'll see 2221 01:59:11.000 --> 01:59:13.319 you a little further on down the trail. Tell your animals, 2222 01:59:13.319 --> 01:59:16.199 I said, Hi. Good night everybody,