WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:07.960 M oh g is folks, it's showtime. 2 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:10.599 People say good money to see this movie. 3 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:13.519 When they go out to a theater, they are cold sodas, 4 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:15.960 pop popcorn and no monsters. 5 00:00:16.120 --> 00:00:19.519 In the protection booth, everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. 6 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:20.839 Done at all? 7 00:00:39.320 --> 00:00:41.079 Said he's to had an empty tom Then remember the 8 00:00:41.079 --> 00:00:48.960 second the macro fun Street. It's apt Sancess Juicy, see 9 00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:55.479 Tobya Jusky, See to babya Husky, see to babya in 10 00:00:55.679 --> 00:01:33.359 a port palace street Sea Terry sash you. 11 00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:34.799 Yeah, Hello, didn't know. 12 00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:50.359 What Welcome to the projection booth. I'm your host, Mike White, 13 00:01:50.439 --> 00:01:52.439 join me once again. Is miss Judith. 14 00:01:52.159 --> 00:01:53.680 Maine, I'm Mike. 15 00:01:54.680 --> 00:01:57.280 Also back in the booth is Mixed Lou and Tienne. 16 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:00.519 Hello, thank you for having me this This week. 17 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:04.239 We were looking at Matthew Kissowitz's Laan. Released in nineteen 18 00:02:04.319 --> 00:02:06.879 ninety five, the film tells the story of three youths 19 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:09.800 from the projects outside of Paris and their struggles to 20 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:15.360 navigate their world, a world filled with violence, police brutality, drugs, poverty, 21 00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:18.240 and riots. The film takes place over a twenty four 22 00:02:18.240 --> 00:02:21.120 hour period of time and captures a point that is 23 00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:24.080 all too familiar today. We will be swalling this film 24 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:25.879 as we discussed it, so if you don't anything ruined, 25 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:28.080 please turn off the podcast and come on back after 26 00:02:28.120 --> 00:02:31.159 you've seen it. We will still be here. Solu. When 27 00:02:31.280 --> 00:02:33.520 was the first time you saw Laan and what did 28 00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:33.840 you think? 29 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:36.199 The first time I saw it en was like maybe 30 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:39.319 twenty ten and I was shown it by a friend 31 00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:41.560 I was so close to. He was like my brother, 32 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:45.479 and he looked so much like Vincent Kassel in this film, 33 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:49.919 but luckily he had none of Vince's like idiot, macho swagger. 34 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:53.639 He was like gentle and loving and generous and sadly 35 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:58.280 he was also killed really young. Yeah sorry, immediately lower 36 00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:00.319 the tone, but no, but I want. I wanted to 37 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:02.439 come back to this film because I wanted to think 38 00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:05.439 about him and also to watch it as a full adult. 39 00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:08.080 And my first thought when I watched it for this 40 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:10.400 episode was like, oh my god, do I have a type? 41 00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:13.919 Because this is a lot like Christallief My Car, the 42 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:16.159 first film that I spoke to you Mike about on 43 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:20.159 the projection booth, because they're both these like gorgeous black 44 00:03:20.199 --> 00:03:25.159 and white films that like plunge you into masculinist worlds 45 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:28.919 of fatalism and chaos and decay, and I realized that 46 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:33.400 Christaalioff premiered dot com like three years after Latin, so 47 00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:37.319 it'd be a really dark but a really interesting exercise 48 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:40.039 to sort of program them together and. 49 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:41.159 Jub how about yourself? 50 00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:45.479 Ever since I saw that question in your email, I've 51 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:47.439 been thinking about when I first saw this film, and 52 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:51.319 I can't remember. I'm sorry, but I think it was 53 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:54.759 sometime not too long after it was released. But I 54 00:03:54.800 --> 00:03:58.080 also taught this film in my contemporary friends. Well it's 55 00:03:58.120 --> 00:04:02.120 contemporary then when I was still and I've loved the 56 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:05.599 film since then. And one of the things I just 57 00:04:05.639 --> 00:04:08.919 watched it yesterday for the first time, probably in twenty 58 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:13.639 some years, And what really astonished me about the film is, 59 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:16.560 but you watch it as so have all the power 60 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:20.040 and impact that it has when you first see it. 61 00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:22.959 But also it's a film that could have been made yesterday. 62 00:04:23.519 --> 00:04:28.959 It's just so relevant, so intense. Now I'm a big 63 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:32.959 fan of Matya Kassovit's I think he's an amazing actor 64 00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:39.199 and director, and this film, I think is just so extraordinary. 65 00:04:39.240 --> 00:04:41.560 There are things about it that bother me. There are 66 00:04:41.560 --> 00:04:44.279 criticisms you could raise about it, as many people did 67 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:48.560 when it came out, But I think it's a really amazing, 68 00:04:48.920 --> 00:04:50.600 a really amazing film. 69 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:54.000 Yeah, I'm much more familiar with Kessovitz from his acting. 70 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:57.079 We talked about The Fifth Element a few months ago. 71 00:04:57.199 --> 00:04:59.879 He's got a wonderful tiny role in there as a 72 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:03.480 mugger who does some great dancing. I much more know 73 00:05:03.879 --> 00:05:06.600 him from his acting than from his directing. Of course, 74 00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:09.879 he was also in Amalae, which is one of my favorites, 75 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:14.240 and he's great in that as well. I just watched 76 00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:17.519 this for the first time for this episode just because 77 00:05:18.199 --> 00:05:20.439 something about this movie, and I think what it was 78 00:05:20.519 --> 00:05:23.879 is Vinsic Cassal. I think there's something about him just 79 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:28.079 because he's so angry and abusive and so many of 80 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:30.000 the roles that he plays. I'm just like, I don't 81 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:32.319 really want to see this guy do this again. It's 82 00:05:32.360 --> 00:05:34.240 like so unusual when I see him in a role 83 00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:37.560 where he's not being an asshole, like you know, I 84 00:05:37.560 --> 00:05:43.079 think of movies like Irreversible or Black Swan like those 85 00:05:43.160 --> 00:05:45.600 kind of things. But then he's perfectly fine in a 86 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:47.839 movie like Underwater, And of course, you know, I've seen 87 00:05:47.879 --> 00:05:49.639 him in a bunch of things where I'm just like, oh, yeah, no, 88 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:53.319 and he's just he's a fucking fantastic actor. And all 89 00:05:53.439 --> 00:05:57.639 three of these leads are wonderful, and I love the 90 00:05:57.639 --> 00:06:00.279 way that this film is put together. I feel pretty 91 00:06:00.279 --> 00:06:02.439 bad that I've avoided it for so long because this 92 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:05.879 really nineteen ninety five. This would have been my jam 93 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:08.279 probably in ninety five, and this is I know some 94 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:12.079 people have made comparisons between this and things like Boys 95 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:14.439 in the Hood or Menace to Society, and it's like, no, 96 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:17.399 it's so different, And like you said, so many of 97 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:20.639 these problems are still here with us today. I mean, 98 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:23.800 they get interpreted in different ways, like I'm a you 99 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:27.399 know you talked about and again I apologize for my French, 100 00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:31.439 but is it pronounced ben lews? The neighborhoods, the projects 101 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:35.079 basically like I'm a huge fan of ben U thirteen, 102 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:39.120 the science fiction slash Parkore film, which is very similar 103 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:43.040 to Assault on Precinct thirteen meets Escape from New York, 104 00:06:43.079 --> 00:06:47.240 and it's like, I really like the idea of exploring 105 00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:51.680 these projects, but not as real, I guess because this one, man, 106 00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:53.920 oh man, what a what a wake up call this 107 00:06:54.040 --> 00:06:55.800 must have been for France or at least I would 108 00:06:55.839 --> 00:06:58.319 hope it would have been a wake up call. But really, 109 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:00.319 when I hear about the riots and the pow and 110 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:03.120 the things that are still there, I guess it didn't 111 00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:05.839 really shake them to the cores as much as I 112 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:06.959 wished it had. 113 00:07:07.399 --> 00:07:09.720 The element of lahin that really prevents it from being 114 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:13.639 politically viable, from preventing it from really making waves is 115 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:16.639 its fatalism, And I think this is the most dangerous element. 116 00:07:16.839 --> 00:07:19.399 Like even when Ubert wants to get out, when he 117 00:07:19.480 --> 00:07:22.839 sees the harm and the uselessness of violence, he's inevitably 118 00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:25.000 pulled back into it. Right, You're doomed whether you fire 119 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:28.319 the shot or not. Neither Vince nor Sai'd have any 120 00:07:28.360 --> 00:07:31.480 real power in the film. You know you're damned if 121 00:07:31.480 --> 00:07:34.040 you do, and you're damned if you don't. The film 122 00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:37.720 is driven by this impending tragedy, with the ticking countdown 123 00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:41.360 and this fall from the skyscraper. We know that our 124 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:46.240 characters won't survive. Life is sort of unstructured and it's meaningless. 125 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:50.199 It's this hopeless cycle and it ends badly in the end, right, 126 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:53.399 And the threat of violence is always is always imminent. 127 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:57.040 But I think this really naturalizes the site as this violent, 128 00:07:57.120 --> 00:08:02.040 anarchic space, just like biased media Ridge does, fueling fascination 129 00:08:02.199 --> 00:08:05.879 with or fear of its inhabitants. Right, And it's problematic 130 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:09.879 because Kassovitz clearly wants to incite revolt, he wants to 131 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:12.279 set people on fire, but he plays right into the 132 00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:15.920 dominant perception of Bandus as powder kegs Right as hot districts, 133 00:08:16.639 --> 00:08:18.920 And I think this film ultimately does very little to 134 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:22.920 challenge the perception of life in the Bandu as like 135 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:27.240 this lethal mixture of drugs and unemployment and brutality. And 136 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:31.000 the difference between Kassovits and the government ministers watching this 137 00:08:31.160 --> 00:08:35.200 film as if it's real reporting is that Kassovitz finds 138 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:39.960 these images exciting, whereas the people in power use these 139 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:43.279 same perceptions to kind of justify the institutional violence that 140 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:47.120 Kassovitz is depicting. It's just like the problem with fatalism. 141 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:52.159 The problem with narratives that depict death and violence as 142 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:56.679 inevitable is that fatalism is really numbing, it's really stultifying, 143 00:08:56.840 --> 00:08:59.639 and it makes us feel powerless. I think at best, 144 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:03.320 this film raises consciousness about certain conditions, but without any 145 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:08.120 viable solution. Any vision of change consciousness raising films, They 146 00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:13.080 just breed complacency, right these fatalism tells us that these 147 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:15.840 areas are a lost cause. And then I think that 148 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:19.919 it only really serves to excuse the failures of governments 149 00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:24.279 to address exclusion and social deprivation in effective ways. And 150 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:27.320 fatalism can really play into the hands of the far right, 151 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:31.919 like Lahan could easily promote fear mongering about the inevitability 152 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:36.120 of violence, about rash, misogynistic youth over there, right, and 153 00:09:36.200 --> 00:09:40.000 the impending crisis if we let them in, right, And so, 154 00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:42.320 I don't know. I find it a really frustrating film 155 00:09:42.519 --> 00:09:46.240 because it's also very beautiful and very effective in other ways. 156 00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:50.159 The character that's the biggest disappointment, and that respect is 157 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:55.559 either because here's somebody who's a successful boxer and he's 158 00:09:55.639 --> 00:09:58.399 different from the other two friends in that respect. He 159 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:02.840 actually has path that he's following, he has a goal. 160 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:07.320 He's also very much the peacemaker in relationship to the 161 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:11.480 other two, and he's a wonderful character. But by the end, 162 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:15.639 because he's a peacemaker, he becomes the one who is 163 00:10:15.679 --> 00:10:19.480 folded back into the life of the of the bonlieux 164 00:10:19.639 --> 00:10:25.039 and disappointing, you know what, At the same time, I 165 00:10:25.080 --> 00:10:27.840 see exactly what you're saying a little. But at the 166 00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:30.919 same time, I think there's a very utopian vision in 167 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:34.879 this In this film, despite how it concludes to bite 168 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:38.679 the kind of downward half, I think it's a very 169 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:43.200 utopian vision of the power of friendship in the suburbs. 170 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:47.080 And the fact that you have this close relationship not 171 00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:51.840 just between someone of African descent and someone of probably 172 00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:55.919 North African Arab descent, but also a Jewish French person 173 00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:59.559 is really that's not something that you see represented all 174 00:10:59.559 --> 00:11:02.919 that all. And I think that they're the fantasy in 175 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:06.919 this film, that the three of them represent the possible 176 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:11.840 coming together of disenfranchised groups, but of course that doesn't 177 00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:14.720 succeed at the end, But just the very fact of 178 00:11:14.759 --> 00:11:19.480 them coming together and the interactions between them, despite despite 179 00:11:19.480 --> 00:11:22.639 the context for them, the interactions between them are really wonderful. 180 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:27.320 There's something really powerful about watching these innections between these 181 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:31.440 three very very different people. But I do think Ubert 182 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:35.759 is the one who's distinguished by what he wants and 183 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:39.320 what he does, and the fact that he's folded back 184 00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:43.559 into the Bodia is is very much part of that 185 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:46.600 downward spiral you know you mentioned, and of course it's 186 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:50.320 mentioned throughout the film. The story that's told at the beginning, 187 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:53.919 this guy falls off a roof and he watches everything's okay, 188 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:58.360 everything's okay, everything's okay, and then he splats on the ground. 189 00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:02.360 I actually don't like that story very much, and maybe 190 00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:06.759 that's why, because it's so fatalistic. Because the thing that 191 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:10.440 I think is more interesting, it's not the final destination. 192 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:14.759 It's the process of how you come down. And in 193 00:12:14.840 --> 00:12:18.559 that process of falling down, of coming down, you see 194 00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:23.000 the interconnections between these people in ways that are really powerful, 195 00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:25.399 And as I said, I think it's somewhat utopian. 196 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:31.120 I definitely agree that the film betrays Ubert by having 197 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:36.279 him really resist this kind of racially coded masculinity that 198 00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:39.039 Vince really fetishizes in him, and the film, to an extent, 199 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:42.879 really fetishizes in him. But in his death, I mean, 200 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:46.960 in Vince's death and in Ubert's repossession of the gun 201 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:51.519 and in him perhaps shooting it, it both affirms Vince's 202 00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:54.039 belonging as like a brother worthy of avenging, but it 203 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:58.000 also reinscribes Hubert within this discourse of violence. And retaliation 204 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:01.360 that he had denounced throughout the entire film, right, And 205 00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:04.320 I mean it also makes a racist move of naturalizing 206 00:13:04.360 --> 00:13:06.639 blackmail gun violence in a character who had spent the 207 00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:09.919 entire film rejecting it. There's a lot to commend in 208 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:13.080 their friendship, but I think it's also a little bit 209 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:15.759 problematic the way that the film really goes out of 210 00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:19.720 its way stylistically to embed us in the white character's 211 00:13:19.759 --> 00:13:22.679 imagination and in his fantasies and in his desires and 212 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:25.639 not giving us that interiority, and that it's psychology for 213 00:13:25.720 --> 00:13:29.200 the black or the Arab characters. The film sort of 214 00:13:29.240 --> 00:13:33.120 follows Vince in his fetishizing of Ubert's body, in his 215 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:37.039 blackness and his masculinity. For example, in the scene where 216 00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:39.600 they enter the boxing gym for the first time, Vince 217 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:41.720 is sort of whispering to SAYID like, look at Ubert, 218 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:44.519 but he's really mad, and the film, the camera really 219 00:13:44.559 --> 00:13:48.120 glides toward Ubert in this very fetishizing slow motion, and 220 00:13:48.159 --> 00:13:52.000 we see him spotlet under a single light bulb and 221 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:55.720 he's boxing, and the Kioskuro factually, you know, shows his muscles, 222 00:13:55.720 --> 00:13:58.600 and I don't know, I wonder about the extent to 223 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:02.519 which the film still reduces Ubert to his body. Even 224 00:14:02.559 --> 00:14:06.120 though he's the most philosophical character, he's always sort of 225 00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:11.279 reinscribed within discourses of the body. Evince will always say 226 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:13.879 things like, oh, I'm not like you, mister black Hercules, right, 227 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:17.080 whereas with Vince we get a lot of interiority, we 228 00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:19.159 get a lot of psychology. And so the film sort 229 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:22.639 of does, in a way reinscribe the racist trope of 230 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:25.240 like white man equals brain whereas black min equals body. 231 00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:29.080 It's a very ambivalent portrayal. I think of their friendship. 232 00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:34.639 Vincent is white, but he's also Jewish. He's also ethnicized, 233 00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:39.039 if not as strongly as the other two. And mostly 234 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:41.200 that does happen through the home setting, because you see 235 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:45.440 the Manora, you see the Jewish grandmother. Interesting on how 236 00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:49.399 aside from him, the only Jewish people represented in the 237 00:14:49.399 --> 00:14:52.919 film are old people, the grandmother and then the old 238 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:56.200 man in the restroom who tells the story of Grimalfsky. 239 00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:59.320 It's a risky move on the part of Cassavitz, who 240 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:03.639 is himself a French Jew. It's a risky move to 241 00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:08.679 try to establish these connections between Tree. You could say, 242 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:14.559 an African French identity at something in common with Magreb 243 00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:17.519 a North African French identity, because they're both products of 244 00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:21.440 colonialism and post colonialism. You can't did the same thing 245 00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:26.840 about Vince's Jewish identity. But there's a connection, and that's 246 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:29.159 what I think is part of the desire of this 247 00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:33.080 film is to establish that connection between Vince and the 248 00:15:33.159 --> 00:15:36.320 other two. I wonder how much that had to do 249 00:15:36.440 --> 00:15:41.159 with very controversial reception at this film. Had he was 250 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:44.120 the fact that it's was criticized roundly because he's not 251 00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:46.879 a part of that culture. He came to it as 252 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:51.159 very much as an outsider. Now, I think ultimately, you know, 253 00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:54.200 the film has to be judged not on who he is, 254 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:57.399 but on what the film is and what the film 255 00:15:57.799 --> 00:16:04.279 brings to or understanding of identities in both colonial potolocoust 256 00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:09.120 we have to say to French culture, and in that respect, 257 00:16:09.159 --> 00:16:14.399 the story of Grvolski is very peculiar. It's a little 258 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:18.960 bit like the seld Down. Everything's okay, everything's okay, Everything's okay. 259 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:22.960 Everybody else goes out to I'm sorry, I can't say 260 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:26.200 God to take a fit. Everyone goes outside the train car. 261 00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:29.799 Listen to me, I sound like a prude. Everyone goes 262 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:34.480 outside to depcate, but Grinvolski is so preoccupied with not 263 00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:38.679 putting his body on display that he basically, you know, 264 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:44.120 he basically misses the train. Evidently, one misunderstanding that many 265 00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:47.279 people had about the story about Grovolski and the old 266 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:50.559 man in the in the bathroom is that he understood 267 00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:53.279 it to be a story about Jews being sent to 268 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:56.600 concentration camps, to death camps during the during World War Two. 269 00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:00.159 He says very specifically, they were going to Siberia, and 270 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:05.400 so Polish Jews found refuge temporarily in the Soviet Union 271 00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:10.039 in Russia, but they were then recruited, forced by Stalin 272 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:15.160 to become part of these work squads in Siberia, and 273 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:17.440 many of them didn't survive. But it was also a 274 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:21.640 chance of survival that was not offered by death camps, 275 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:24.039 and so in that sense, it was like it was 276 00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:30.200 a chance for Brinvolski to find the future, to find 277 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:32.839 life instead of freezing in the gold as he did. 278 00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:36.119 He doesn't say, I don't think where they were when 279 00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:39.599 the train stopped and they all got off, but you 280 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:42.319 do sort of wonder why didn't Brunowski walk around or 281 00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:45.640 find somebody. You can't do this with a film. You 282 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:47.240 can't say, oh, why didn't he do this? And why 283 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:50.200 didn't he do that? But there is that element of 284 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:53.440 a kind of passive expectation of what is going to 285 00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:56.680 happen to him, both in terms of not being willing 286 00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:59.200 to get back on the train because he doesn't want 287 00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:03.039 to show himself and missing out on the chance to 288 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:06.359 avoid the possibility of liberatia. 289 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:11.240 It's funny that the movie starts off with the so far, 290 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:14.559 so good joke. I think that's the first VEO that 291 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:18.039 we hear on the film. We end with that. It 292 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:22.000 also comes up in the middle. There's also the story 293 00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:25.039 that you're telling talking about. There's also the joke about 294 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:28.039 Batman that comes up, where a person is beating up 295 00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:30.799 a nun and says, you know, you're not so tough Batman. 296 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:36.720 It's interesting that that one and the flight the Falling 297 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:41.200 story both of those. Vin says, I've heard that joke 298 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:44.319 before but with a rabbi, and I'm like, oh, okay, 299 00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:48.799 but it's it is an interesting way to talk us 300 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.720 through the you know, to lighten the air with these jokes. 301 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:54.759 But the jokes are so depressing and the stories are 302 00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:58.559 so depressing, like the idea of the Grimalsky story that 303 00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:00.920 you're talking about, like, yeah, yeah, this is pretty funny. 304 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:03.599 This guy was trying to run follow the train, but 305 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:05.640 he kept dropping his pants and he kept pulling up 306 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:08.759 his pants, and yeah, he froze to death. It's just 307 00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:14.119 this morbid punchline to it and no offense, but it 308 00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:17.000 felt the little Parantino asked. The idea of like popping 309 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:19.599 in jokes and then using the jokes and the punchlines 310 00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:21.200 is kind of a punch in the face kind of 311 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:27.240 thing to me. It speaks to the really stylized shooting 312 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:31.599 of this film. I mean when Lahn is mostly known 313 00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:35.559 to me from looking at clips on Instagram where it's like, 314 00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:38.680 can you believe the shot? These shots are incredible, the 315 00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:41.599 whole thing with Cassel in front of the mirror and 316 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:44.480 that it's actually a different person who is pretending to 317 00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:46.799 be Cassel, and that we moved through the frame and 318 00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:50.039 we end up in Cassell's world where he's re enacting 319 00:19:50.119 --> 00:19:52.480 the whole you're talking to me speech from taxi driver. 320 00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:55.319 I mean, that's a beautiful shot, but so many of 321 00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:59.119 these shots are gorgeous, and you know, you're talking about 322 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:02.039 like the fetishization of Hubert's body. I mean, so much 323 00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:05.160 of this violence, so much of this world is fetishized, 324 00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:07.920 and I think that, you know, Casovitz really went out 325 00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:13.720 of his way to make the ben Lieuze very beautiful 326 00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:17.880 and to just really make those almost otherworldly. You know, 327 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:20.759 you're talking about this utopian vision, and for me, it's 328 00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:24.119 like the once they're in the bean Leus, it is gorgeous. 329 00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:26.480 Everything looks really nice, and it's like you don't see 330 00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:29.119 the squalor nearly as much as you think that you would. 331 00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:32.559 It's not until they get to Paris where things shift. 332 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:37.200 And I know that he specifically went from being stereo 333 00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:41.640 in Labanlieu's to mono once he gets outside and gets 334 00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:44.960 into Paris, and just makes it a much more grab 335 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:47.400 world than we had in the projects. And it's an 336 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:50.519 interesting way that he's contradicting those two things. And you 337 00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:53.200 were talking about the whole thing of him being this outsider, 338 00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:55.039 and I know it was a big deal for him 339 00:20:55.720 --> 00:20:58.920 to live with the actors in the projects before they 340 00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:02.200 started production and just to try to give himself some 341 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:05.519 credibility because I think he knew he was very much 342 00:21:05.559 --> 00:21:09.720 an outsider all of these guys, and there's a behind 343 00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:11.880 the scenes clip where he's like, yeah, all of us 344 00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:15.319 are pretty bourgeois, but you know, we're trying to get 345 00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:16.279 some street cred here. 346 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:19.240 And I mean it's really important to acknowledge as well that, 347 00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:22.079 like the Bandli cinema was a genre of cinema that 348 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:25.599 really caught fire in the nineties. Right, Pasowtz isn't doing 349 00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:30.119 something new, And a lot of films about the Banlu 350 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:32.599 are being made by people who live in Bondlus, especially 351 00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:37.039 people who are Arab French themselves. And Harry Tard read 352 00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:41.160 a really nice kind of critique about what white filmmakers 353 00:21:41.559 --> 00:21:44.680 are doing differently in their depictions of the Banlu compared 354 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:49.000 with French Arab filmmakers. But it seems like white authored 355 00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:53.240 Bandlu films don't tend to represent family backgrounds or living 356 00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:55.759 spaces of Arab youth, just like we don't see inside 357 00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:59.480 says Home. They don't tend to demonstrate interest in first 358 00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:03.759 generation immigrants. They tend to express the anger and alienation 359 00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:08.000 of young men regardless of ethnic origins, and tend to 360 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:11.599 focus on confrontations with police. They tend to sort of 361 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:14.599 point to a shared experience of exclusion that mask the 362 00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:19.319 significance of ethnic difference and the difficulties that this difference presents. 363 00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:22.839 And in these ways, the white authored Banlu films tend 364 00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:27.559 to sort of reflect French universalism and resistance to multiculturalism, 365 00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:30.759 whereas films about the Bandlu made by Arabic or bare 366 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:35.079 filmmakers tend to avoid or diffuse scenes of confrontation with 367 00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:38.279 the police and instead be more interested in problems of 368 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:43.039 identification and integration and in addressing changes and values within 369 00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:47.240 Maghrebi communities, including women's places within it. They tend to 370 00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:50.480 look at gender roles more extensively, even if they also 371 00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:54.400 demonstrate masculinity in crisis, and rather than centering groups of 372 00:22:54.440 --> 00:22:57.640 unemployed youth, they tend to center kind of older people 373 00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:00.839 who have put any illegal activities behind them, and sort 374 00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:05.839 of look at interpersonal and intergenerational relationships more. Going back 375 00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:12.359 to the Grunwalski story, talking about intergenerational relationships, it's interesting 376 00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:14.960 that like a Vince is quoted as Jewish, but he 377 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.640 doesn't have the same accent as his grandma or his auntie, 378 00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:22.079 and he doesn't seem to make any personal relationship. He 379 00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:25.079 doesn't seem to make any personal connection or any understanding 380 00:23:25.160 --> 00:23:28.400 of the Grunwalski story, and most people have read that 381 00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:32.039 story as sort of like a reminder of the suffering 382 00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:34.839 and the exclusion of Jewish people to sort of lend 383 00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:38.880 Vince's anger credibility. But Vince himself seems to really distance 384 00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:42.680 himself from Jewishness and instead appropriate kind of ghetto swag 385 00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:46.680 and black music and sort of he shadow boxes. He 386 00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:49.000 wants to be Ubert. He has the ring from Do 387 00:23:49.079 --> 00:23:52.200 the Right Thing, you know, the radio Rahim. It would 388 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:55.359 be easy to read the film as a film about 389 00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:58.440 the instability of masculinity and sort of the instability of 390 00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:02.160 a gender that is always reflective and is always appropriative 391 00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:04.680 and is so unstable, Like it would be interesting to 392 00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:07.960 do a feminist oppositional reading of Latin, even though I 393 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:11.759 think the film is not feminist. It really revels in misogyny. 394 00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:15.000 But also related to that, women are totally imaginary, and 395 00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:18.359 as I think, the only real women you see are 396 00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:21.319 the group of sisters sitting together, and I believe that 397 00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:24.720 Sayid's sister, and then the old grandmother and the mother. 398 00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:29.599 But they talk about women obsessively. They talk about sex 399 00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:34.599 with women, It's like women are completely imaginary creatures in 400 00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:40.559 this in this film, they have absolutely no, no blood 401 00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:45.400