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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Apologetics three fifteen podcast with

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your hosts Brian Auten and Chad Gross. Join us for

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conversations and interviews on the topics of apologetics, evangelism, and

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the Christian worldview. I celebrate the guys entire catalog. Hello,

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and welcome to the podcast. This is Brian Auten and

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I'm Chad Gross, and we're back from a little bit

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of a hiatus. We've been having technical problems, problems with cables,

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problems with laptops, problem with scheduling. I got ninety nine problems.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we've had quite a few issues.

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Speaker 3: We've tried to a couple times record The Rational Faith

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two and when we've come on, we've had audio issues

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and issues with the platform we use, Riverside, and so

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it has been a little frustrating. So hopefully we're going

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to be able to get through today. That's what we're praying,

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and everything goes off without a hitch, as they say.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we even had that debate between Alvin Planting and

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Richard Dawkins, but then the audio got corrupted and you know,

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we were going to release that so.

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Speaker 3: Right right, which I mean, I'm kind of glad because

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you know, we could do better than Richard Dawkins.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So anyway, today we have an actual guest and

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it's actually going to happen today. Doctor Braxton Hunter is

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with us. He's president of Trinity College of the Bible

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and Theological Seminary in Evansville, Indiana's former president of the

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Conference of Southern Baptist Evangelists. Is a pastor, educator, and

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seasoned debater and so he holds a PhD in Christian apologetics,

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other degrees and such, and has authored several works on

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Christian apologetics. If you want to know more, go to

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his bio at Braxton Hunter dot com. Yeah, Braxton hunter

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dot com, slash about and you will find everything you want. So, Chad,

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what are your hopes and dreams for this podcast interview today?

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Speaker 2: You are right over there. Yeah, I'm just kidding.

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Speaker 3: Well, the best way I can introduce Braxton and kind

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of what I hope to get out of the interview

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today is have you ever been in a conversation with

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somebody and they'll about apologetics and they'll bring up a

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certain speaker that they came across, and sometimes your inner

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thought when they bring that person up is oh, man,

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not that guy.

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Speaker 2: You know, like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, no, no, it's like actually quite the opposite.

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If somebody stumbled across Braxton Hunter and they told me

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that they had been listening to him, I would be

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greatly encouraged by that. And it's because not only is

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he extremely knowledgeable, he's very clear. He's able to what

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people have classically called put the cookies on the bottom shelf,

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if you will, but he does so in such a winsome, thoughtful,

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inviting way. He kind of invites people into the conversation

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about Christianity and just his manner and I love that

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about him. And so what I'm hoping today is, first

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of all, he recently made an announcement on his YouTube

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channel which is called Trinity Radio, which he'll talk about.

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So I'm not going to go into what that is.

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But he made an announcement. We're gonna talk to him

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a little bit about that. I also want to talk

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to him about how do you do effective online apologetics?

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Because you and I both know that we can point

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to people who are doing it very well, and then

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we can point to people who we hope no one

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stumbles across. Right, And if I'm somebody sitting at home

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and I'm kind of feeling that leading of maybe I

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need to engage online, maybe I need to start something

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like that.

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Speaker 2: What are some things that Braxton would.

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Speaker 3: Advise them to do, What are some maybe mistakes he's made,

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And how does he decide what to engage with and

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what not to engage with because it's such like a

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vast body of information. And then finally, how does he

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manage to engage in such a way that he doesn't

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sacrifice truth but he does so in such a way

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that invites people into the discussion. And then if there's time,

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and this is completely self indulgent, I will confess that

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on the onset, I hope to ask him a few

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kind of behind the scenes fun questions about a debate

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he had with Matt Dillahunty, which I did a post

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on truth Bomb something about my favorite debates or something

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like that, and that one is on there.

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Speaker 2: He also did a.

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Speaker 3: Wonderful debate on free will with Dan Barker, but according

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to Dan Barker, Barker had no choice as to whether

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or not he participated. But anyway, that's kind of what

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I'm thinking for the interview, and this is somebody I've

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wanted to have on, as you know, for a long time,

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so I'm pretty excited about it.

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Speaker 1: Actually cool, Yeah, it sounds good. Well, come on join

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us for this conversation. We invite you in. Let's go

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to the interview.

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Speaker 2: Let's get ready. Switch me on.

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Speaker 1: Well, Brexen Hunter, thanks for joining us on the podcast today.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thanks so much for having me here. Guys.

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Speaker 4: I'm so excited to be a part of this. I've

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really appreciated and admired the ministry here at Apologetics three

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fifteen for so long and the work that both of

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you guys do. It's kind of like I feel like

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maybe I've made it now that I'm on Apologetics three

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fifteen this way.

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Speaker 3: Well, we're super excited to have you on. I think

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that you came on my radar. I was trying to

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think yesterday when exactly I started watching your content. But

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I know that when you became kind of at one

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of the top people on my list, if you will,

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somebody said, hey, where do you Where can I learn

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about Apologetics on YouTube?

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Speaker 2: You would make that list.

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Speaker 3: As after your debate with Matt dillahunty, I was just

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so impressed by that, And again I was watching your

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stuff before that but that kind of cemented it for me,

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and I've wanted to have you on here for gosh, Brian,

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what a couple of years now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I say, no, man, no, he hasn't made

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it yet.

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Speaker 2: Totally understandable, Brian, you haven't made it yet. Eat. So anyway,

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it's just such such a pleasure to talk to you.

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Speaker 3: When we when I joined Brian on the podcast when

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we rebooted it, there was a short list of people

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that were kind of my if I do this and

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I don't get to interview these people, I'll be disappointed.

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Speaker 2: And you were on that. You were on that short list,

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and so I'm very excited. Well that means a lot

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to me.

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Speaker 4: And let me tell you about you personally when you

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post like lists of what's going on in apologetics.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I always think of you.

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Speaker 4: I always thought of you as like the one of

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the guys at the cool kids table online and so

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like when I get referenced, it's like, oh, wow, he

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saw that, you know. So the feeling here is very cute. Yeah,

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thank you. I appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 3: I just would would want listeners to hear a little

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bit about you, like how did you become a Christian.

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What's your background, A little bit about your family, because

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I know that's very important to you, and so just

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kind of let us get to know you a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I really appreciate that.

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Speaker 4: I was born the son of a megachurch pastor at

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a time when megachurches were starting to become more of

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an obvious thing and have television ministries at the time

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in the early eighties. So my father pastor of a

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church called North Jacksonville Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida. And

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for the first ten years of my life I was there.

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That church had five thousand in regular attendants and auditorium

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that seeded thirty five hundred, and I thought that was normal,

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you know. I just was proud to be there, happy

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to be there, enjoyed all of that. My parents went

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out of their way to make me and my brother

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feel as though we were not the pastor's kid in

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the stereotypical sense where there's all these responsibilities on you

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and people are, oh, that's the pastor's kid, you know,

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he should know all the Bible, all the books of

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the Bible by heart and all that kind of thing.

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It was never like that. In fact, that's why I

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have an unbiblical name. Is because my parents knew about

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pastors that had their children were like Joseph and Mary

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and Philip, and so he wanted us to not have

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even that, you know, And so he went out of

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his way and my mother to create that sort of environment.

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So I really enjoyed being the son of a pastor.

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And when I got into my teenage years, I wanted

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to be a rock star. You two was my favorite

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band is still my favorite band, and I wanted to

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be bono. But and that was what And I didn't

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want to be a preacher at all because my dad

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was a preacher and I thought that was lame and

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I didn't want to be a preacher. So but then

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on a youth trip, I really felt that God wanted

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me to go into the ministry. And oh you asked

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about my salvation. I was saved at a young age,

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but like a lot of people, I prayed to receive

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Christ multiple times. But the ultimate thing is I know

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that one of those times my heart was in it.

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I was doing it for the right reasons and became

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a follower of Christ. But I went into the ministry

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then as a seventeen year old. I surrendered to the

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Gospel ministry, is how he phrased it in my church background,

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and I wasn't happy about it.

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Speaker 2: Really.

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Speaker 4: That's one of the reasons I know it was real

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is because it was not the thing I picked for myself.

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I wanted to be Bono, right, I wanted to be

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a rock star and so and so I but my dad,

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even though he was a preacher, wanted me to wanted

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me to be really sure about this, and so I

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started going to school for music business degree. I realized

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by that point I wasn't going to be Bono, but

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I could make money off of other people that might

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want to be Bono and be a manager or something.

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But an academic advisor there, who was an atheist woman, said, well,

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you know, I was trying to arrange my courses so

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they would fit with what it was I was wanting

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to do for the Lord in addition to music business.

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So I was taken some philosophy classes, some religion classes,

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and she said, why don't you just stop this and

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go to seminary that's where your heart is.

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Speaker 2: And so that's what I.

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Speaker 4: Did, and then over time I got interested in I

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pastored two churches but got interested in full time traveling

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evangelistic preaching. But I was realizing that there are people

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out there that don't take it for granted that they

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can believe the Bible, or believe that Jesus is God,

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or believe that there's a heaven. You know, one of

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the key questions in one of the faith soul winning

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program was one of the big sole winning programs so

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called in the late nineties and early two thousands, And

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the key question you want to get people to is,

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in your personal opinion, what do you understand it takes

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for a person to go to heaven? Well, that assumes

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they believe in a heaven. That assumes they believe. So

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I picked up apologetics really just as a way of

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moving forward with my evangelism. And that's still what I

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use apologetics primarily for is I want people come to

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know the Lord Jesus Christ. And over time that resulted

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in a degree program at Trinity College in Seminary where

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I'm now in administration, and worked through that program and

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ultimately got a degree from there, and then went to

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another school, Luther Rice and got a Doctor of Ministry

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degree there and so and then became and then went

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into administration here. But what I began to realize when

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I was on the road was that there needs to

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be a way. This is where I kind of enter

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back into the discussion about where I'm at now, is

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there needs to be a way for regular church people,

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regular Christians who think they can't understand some of the

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principles and ideas with making a case that Christianity is

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true in a way that they that they can pick

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that up and go use it, or at least nowhere

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to go back to to use it. And so that's

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what I've tried to create with my ministry, both online

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and in written materials.

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Speaker 2: I love that.

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Speaker 3: And one of the things I really appreciate about you,

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and I want to get to an announcement you recently made.

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But in that announcement you talked about how when somebody

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were to listen to that, and you obviously have a

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lot going on, one of the things that's important to

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you is keeping your family first, right, And so tell

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us a little bit about your family.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I have my wife, Sarah.

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Speaker 4: We met in college, and we met because neither one

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of us had been good at math in high school,

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and so we were both in math classes for Dummies

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and intermediate algebra class. So if you're a young person

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out there and you're like, why doesn't God just give

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me the ability to understand this thing or whatever, Hey,

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it may be the way that God's working something out

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in your life. Because neither one of us had been

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good at math, we might not have met. And so

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she's she's really. When I was a pastor and in evangelism,

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she was very instrumental in all of that. And now

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we have two daughters who are, as I say, seventeen

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and fourteen years old, and man, I'll.

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Speaker 2: Tell you, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, growing up, you know a lot of people would

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always tell you, well, when they become teenagers, that's where

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everything changes. And with both of my daughters, we've spent

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a lot of time, particularly this summer in this spring,

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talking through things and.

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Speaker 2: All of that.

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Speaker 4: And I'm just going to tell you struggling over like

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am I doing the right thing to foster the right

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worldview and all of that. My daughter, you know, who's

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in the room with me right now, could tell you

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that up in like, for a period of time over

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a year, I would put together powerpoints just for her

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and we would stand in the living room and we

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would go over some of the apologetic ideas, how to

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make a case for the resurrection and that sort of thing.

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And so I haven't been the greatest father and or husband,

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but that is something that matters the most to me.

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I would turn off Trinity Radio, my online outlet and

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never go back to it if I could. If doing

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that would guarantee for me that my family would would

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turn out as God wants them to turn out. So

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in that sense, they definitely come first. I love that

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tell us about Trinity Radio. So in about two thousand

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and nine, I began a podcast so called on a

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rudimentary Macintosh website back when they hosted web for you,

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and I didn't I don't. I couldn't even call it

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a podcast. I just made a piece of audio responding

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to like the New Atheist or something and just posted

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it on this website. I don't even know if anybody

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ever saw it. They probably didn't. And then I just

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kept going with that. And the year after I started

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doing that, I was in Florida, speaking at in Miami

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in an area called Hyalea, which is where a lot

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of Cuban Americans when people come from Cuba.

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Speaker 2: This is like the first.

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Speaker 4: One of the first areas they come to is Hialiah

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in Miami, and the one of the large churches there

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had had me come and speak and I had to

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use a translator and all that. But with two days preparation,

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they got the Florida the professor of World Religions at

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Florida International University, Daniel Alvarez. He's in a viral Cliff

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Connectley video now, but he he to debate me on

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on the arguments for God's existence and all that. So

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with two days to prepare, I did my best William

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Lane Craig cosplay and we got through it, and I

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felt good about that. But then that kind of opened

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up the chan it wasn't a channel, but the podcast

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a little bit. And then I had a couple of

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little debates with atheists online there at that time, and

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it was just me and my attic in downtown Evansville, Indiana.

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And when we brought on a guy named Jonathan Pritchett,

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who is now our vice president of academic Affairs at

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our school, Trinity Seminary, he was inclined to join the

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podcast with me. And what was great about that is

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he has we kind of have a good cop bad

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type vibe. He says, the hard thing, and I'm like, now, now, Pritchett,

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And that's how most of our audience has grown is

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through that sort of a relationship. And I'm guessing that

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by you kind of laughing at that, Chad, you've seen that.

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So we did that, and then really quickly after the

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Matt Dill Hunty debates there were we grew from we

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had just gotten to a thousand subscribers on YouTube, and

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we grew two or three thousand very quickly after that.

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And then I had a debate with Dan Barker from

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the Freedom of from Religion Foundation on Unbelievable, and we

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grew a bit more dramatically after that, and so it

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just kind of moved on from there. And then guys

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like Mike Winger and Cameron Bertouosi and John McCrae from

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what do you mean, they all kind of we were

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in a group chat together and they really really helped

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me and gave me advice on how to do this

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thing of online ministry. And so from that point that's

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that kind of took off and now.

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Speaker 2: Here we are.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, I love the oh gosh, the interactions between

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you and Pritchett sometimes are so funny and it's really

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neat because it's one of those deals where you know, obviously,

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today's the first time I'm meeting you. I've never met him,

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but in a sense, I feel like I could just

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walk into a room and sit down and talk with you.

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Speaker 2: Guys. Absolutely, you know what I mean. So that's so endearing.

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I love that.

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Speaker 3: So recently on Trendy Radio, you made an announcement kind

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of a new project or initiative. I'm not sure how

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you'd want to characterize that, and I wanted to give

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you an opportunity to share that so that churches might

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want to consider taking advantage of it.

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Speaker 4: Well, I really appreciate that that you are giving me

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that platform. I wrote a book that came out originally

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in twenty fourteen called Core Facts, and I'm a classical apologist.

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And for those that don't know what that means, there's

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a great book called Five Views on Apologetics and it

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goes through the five different methodologies that generally people use.

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But the thing that's interesting about the classical approach is

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it has two steps to it. So the first step

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is to show that God exists. You know, you're not

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specifying the Christian God. Although this God is consistent obviously

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with Christianity. You're showing that some form of or that

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theism proper is true, that God exists. And then the

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second step is to show that Jesus is God through

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something like the resurrection, a case for the resurrection. And

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so those are the two steps. So I read this

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book Core Facts, which is an across stick because I'm

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a weird dad and so I like dad humor, and

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I realized that acrostics are weird dad things, but they're

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also really helpful and remembering. And so the word core,

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each letter of the word core stands for a different

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peace of the case for God's existence. So like the

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sea is the universe has a cause. Well, that's like

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the cosmological argument or something. And then os for orders,

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so that's a design argument and it goes on from there.

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And then the facts are all facts, though each letter

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there stands for things related to the resurrection of Jesus.

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The case for Jesus and so I like the F

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is fatal. His wounds on the cross were fatal. The

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a has appeared, He appeared to people after his death.

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C is for committed the disciples were committed to the

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point they were willing to die for that, you know,

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those kind of things. And so what that does is

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highlights what I think is a benefit of the classical approach,

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where if you're talking to someone who already believes in God,

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they just have a problem accepting Jesus, well then you

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can drop the core and just go with the facts,

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because the core part is the part that has to

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do with arguments for God, or if you guys remember it.

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At the beginning of the book The Case for Faith

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from Lee Strobel, he shares this interview with a guy,

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Charles Templeton, who was Billy Graham's associate but became an atheist,

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and in that interview that he had with him there

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Templeton says, well, you know, I love Jesus. I miss Jesus,

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you know, and well, with such a person you might

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not even end up needing to give the facts about Jesus.

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They're ready to accept Jesus if they could just believe

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that naturalism weren't true, that they could believe that there

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was a God or something. So it's flexible in that way.

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So I wrote that book, came out with that book.

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It was sole it was bought by several by a

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conference and then schools to use for things like this.

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I've sold it for years now and I've been really

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pleased with that, and recently I rewrote it for a

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second edition to make it even more understandable and easy

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to grapple with for newcomers. And honestly, this is going

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to sound a bit arrogant. I hope that you're not

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getting that vibe from me, but I really believe this

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resource is among the best for that sort of thing,

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and with my DMN project this I'm wrapping this up here.

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I'm going long winded, but hey, I'm a Southern Baptist

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evangelist at heart. So I get to say I'll let

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you go in a moment three times exactly. You get

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to close your sermon for it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I get that. Yeah, and hold you there.

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Speaker 4: We'll do another song. We'll do just as I am

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for the invitation. But the thing is, so I thought, hey,

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we need to this needs to be something that's taken

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on the road to churches. Because for my DMN project,

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I did exactly that. I did a like scale test like.

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Speaker 2: One to five.

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Speaker 4: How confident and how competent are you in using these

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the apologetics. And I did that with group of interested

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church members who we might call lay people, and we

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took them on a Friday night a Saturday, and then

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I spoke at the church on Sunday. And during that

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time from Friday to Saturday, we just went through some

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of the material that's in Core Facts, and we did

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a like er skilled test. And they were not very

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confident and not very competent before and then they were

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much more or substantially more afterward. Now that didn't mean

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they knew everything about apologetics, but what it meant was

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they now had that they were growing in confidence. Well,

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that was a great test for me to know that

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if we could get this going in churches where say

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I come in for a weekend with a box full

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of Core Facts that everyone's going to go through and

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we're going to work on a Friday night and a

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Saturday to understand this material as best we can. I'm

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going to teach it, we're going to talk it, we're

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going to work shop it. And then on Sunday I

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preach a message to the church kind of geared toward

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sending a rally cry that hey, this church is going

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to start a Core fax group, and we want you

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to commit today to be a part of that and

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be in that group. Then I think that would be

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that would go a long way toward increasing the Church

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in America's ability to do apologetics with the average person.

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And I think pastors over the past twenty years have

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been told you need apologetics, you need apologetics, and they're like, okay,

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we do, You're right, but how do I do that.

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Speaker 2: I'm just me.

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Speaker 4: I'm the guy might not even been a seminary. And

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we can also help organize the church in ways that

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would be helpful for doubters, and so I'd like to advise.

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Speaker 2: Them that way.

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Speaker 4: And so in the coming year, I'm planning on launching

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that and I've already got a couple of churches they're

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lined up that want to have me come do this.

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I'm hoping God will bless and open a lot more doors.

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I'm not looking to make a career out of this

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or anything. I just want the church in America to

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be able to give an answer when someone asks in

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this increasingly secular age.

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Speaker 2: I love that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's like, you know, anybody getting into apologetics.

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But we were talking before the podcast started about resources

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and stuff on the Apologetic x three fifteen website, and

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one of the things we made at one point was

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how to get apologetics in your church. And there's a

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lot of different approaches, but something that can be plugged

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in to a church that is ready to equip them all.

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It takes the requirement for there's someone to be within

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the church as a primary driver for doing that. You know,

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you can call upon that external resource, plug it in

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and then kickstart something rather than having someone from within

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the church having to drive it. That's a really helpful

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approach and crucial right now.

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Speaker 4: Right And have you guys noticed in your own churches

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that like in typical churches there's at least one or

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two weirdo apologetics junkies and they don't understand why everyone's

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not that way. Well, that's the perfect kind of person

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to kind of help facilitate small groups, and most churches

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have somewhere right at that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, one of the things that really stuck

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out to me when I listened to your announcement was

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you you have the reasonable faith groups through William Lane

477
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Craig's organization that Standard Reason Does Outpost, which which I

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lead one of those. But the thing I love about

479
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,400
what you're doing is when somebody starts a reasonable Faith

480
00:23:17,519 --> 00:23:22,480
chapter or somebody starts a standard reason outpost, Like I

481
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,920
love these guys, and I understand you know that probably

482
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,039
some of the limitations they have or whatnot, But like,

483
00:23:29,279 --> 00:23:31,599
you're not getting William lane Craig to come do like

484
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,240
a three day introduction to your reasonable Faith chapter. You're

485
00:23:35,279 --> 00:23:37,640
not getting Greg Cochle to come and do a three

486
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:42,000
day introduction to what this looks like. And uh, and

487
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,640
that's no slight to them because they have their own

488
00:23:44,759 --> 00:23:47,599
focuses and and again I'm not William Lane Craig or

489
00:23:47,599 --> 00:23:50,880
Greg Cochle either, so well, but but the point is

490
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,400
is that that's such a feature that stuck out to

491
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,960
me of like whoa, Like, what a great way to

492
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,720
get people pumped about it, to have you actually come

493
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,920
the author of the book lay it out and it

494
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,200
and it's such a support to the person who would

495
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,519
decide that they would want to start this core fax group.

496
00:24:07,839 --> 00:24:09,039
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I appreciate that.

497
00:24:09,279 --> 00:24:12,039
Speaker 4: And you know, one of the things about my ministry

498
00:24:12,279 --> 00:24:15,440
is again, like some people are into apologetics just because

499
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,519
it's interesting. Some are because someone in their family has

500
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,200
become an atheist, and even among Christian apologists, well known ones,

501
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,400
some of them are in it because now they want

502
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,119
to put out there what's true and maybe the church

503
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,000
can use that however they will. But I was in

504
00:24:30,079 --> 00:24:32,039
the car with a somewhat well known apologist a couple

505
00:24:32,039 --> 00:24:34,160
of years ago. We were at a conference together and

506
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,599
we were talking and he said, well, what's the focus

507
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,920
of your ministry that makes it different? And I said, well,

508
00:24:40,279 --> 00:24:43,400
I'm an evangelist. I believe I'm in Ephesians four eleven evangelists,

509
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,880
and so my apologetics serves evangelism. And the guy was like,

510
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,960
and this is a well known apologist, and he was like,

511
00:24:49,799 --> 00:24:54,880
apologetics for evangelism, huh what about that? And I'm thinking, Wow,

512
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,519
what better reason to defend the faith but that someone

513
00:24:58,599 --> 00:24:59,599
might believe the faith?

514
00:24:59,759 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 2: Right?

515
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,599
Speaker 4: It seems obvious to me. But I have a pastoral background.

516
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:05,880
I have a very pastoral background. In fact, I work

517
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,680
with Talk about Doubts, which is a ministry that for

518
00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:11,000
people that have doubts that can call in and talk

519
00:25:11,079 --> 00:25:13,000
to an apologist, to talk to a guy yesterday. I've

520
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,680
done that for a few years now. Jonathan McClatchy has

521
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:20,559
that up. But in that they usually send me like

522
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,400
someone who has some doubts, but they need pastoral care

523
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,400
for that reason. And I'm not saying I'm the best

524
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,440
at that, but I think that kind of person that

525
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:32,160
understands the church mindset and how church people think and

526
00:25:32,279 --> 00:25:35,240
receive information it has been a preacher, you know, is

527
00:25:35,279 --> 00:25:36,880
able to kind of bring it down home in a

528
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,319
way that maybe I think William Lane Craig, for example,

529
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,559
would admit that he's not that doesn't do that as much.

530
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I loved it when I watched.

531
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 3: Just for preparation for this to refresh, I rewatched the

532
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,519
Delahunty debate, which honestly I probably didn't need to, I

533
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,680
just wanted to. And then I rewatched the Dan Barker one,

534
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,920
which gosh, I would love to just see a whole

535
00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:03,200
podcast about that, but that's a whole other thing fascinating.

536
00:26:03,319 --> 00:26:05,240
But one of the things I loved in the Dill

537
00:26:05,319 --> 00:26:08,400
Hunting debated. At some point, and I'm paraphrasing, you're basically like, yeah,

538
00:26:08,519 --> 00:26:10,480
I know this doesn't sound cool, but like I'm an

539
00:26:10,519 --> 00:26:13,680
evangelist at heart, Like I'm not going to apologize for that,

540
00:26:13,759 --> 00:26:15,440
And I'm like, yeah, I.

541
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 2: Didn't know I said that in that debate, but oh yeah, yeah,

542
00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:20,079
yeah you did. I don't know if it was during

543
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,839
the Q and A or the debate itself, but yeah,

544
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:23,559
I'll tell you.

545
00:26:23,759 --> 00:26:27,319
Speaker 4: I was the president of the Conference of Southern Babtist Evangelist.

546
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,079
I go to a non denominational church right now, but

547
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,599
I was. I was the youngest ever president of the

548
00:26:31,599 --> 00:26:34,279
Conference Southern Babtist Evangelist, which is an official you know,

549
00:26:34,599 --> 00:26:37,920
NAM North American Mission Board thing with SBC. And what

550
00:26:38,039 --> 00:26:40,319
I noticed there was many of us. Oh we had

551
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,640
great evangelists, so don't get me wrong, but they had grown.

552
00:26:42,799 --> 00:26:46,359
They had decreased from like twenty two hundred evangelists in

553
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,400
the seventies down to like, I don't know, a couple hundred,

554
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,079
and a lot of them were like puppet ministry or

555
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,759
you know, a singer that was an evangelist. We had

556
00:26:54,799 --> 00:26:57,640
a saxophone player that was the evangelist. Great people, God's

557
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,519
using them. Don't want to take away from that, but

558
00:26:59,599 --> 00:27:03,519
there had become a little bit of an idea about evangelists.

559
00:27:03,559 --> 00:27:05,200
So of course we see this in the culture in general.

560
00:27:05,599 --> 00:27:08,079
Though this is the guy who's who's kind of a

561
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,680
redneck he'll Billy Backwoods, you know, doesn't really know the Bible.

562
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,400
And so if I have a chance as standing on

563
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,680
the debate floor, especially if I feel like I've just

564
00:27:16,759 --> 00:27:21,039
done well increasing that that stock and evangelist a little bit,

565
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:22,000
I want to try to do it.

566
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it. Chick tracks, Yeah, yeah, we can

567
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,119
do track, so it'll do this Hunter tracks.

568
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 3: I would prefer Hunter tracks, thank you. I don't even

569
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,759
need to see one to note that I would prefer

570
00:27:35,839 --> 00:27:39,480
a Hunter track. It's not even a debate. So you

571
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,079
you talked about engaging online, and one of the reasons

572
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,240
I wanted to reach out to you is because if

573
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,160
anybody goes on your videos or even you know, again,

574
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,279
not to beat a dead horse, but the Dilla hunting debate,

575
00:27:53,079 --> 00:27:56,720
you know, people are very taken, meaning atheists are very

576
00:27:56,799 --> 00:27:59,920
taken often by your approach. They'll say things I've seen

577
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,160
things like, you know, I don't agree with Braxton, but

578
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,640
he's the most reasonable Christian I've heard, or something along

579
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,759
those lines. And what I've told Brian when we did

580
00:28:10,839 --> 00:28:13,119
the intro, we kind of pre recorded an intro. I said,

581
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,039
you know how there's when I'm talking to people about

582
00:28:15,039 --> 00:28:19,599
apologetics sometimes they'll say I was listening to fill in

583
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:24,279
the blank, and on the inside, I'm like, uh, you

584
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,440
know what I mean, Like, I wish that wasn't who

585
00:28:27,519 --> 00:28:31,000
you were listening to for various reasons. But if they

586
00:28:31,039 --> 00:28:33,720
were to say I'd stumbled upon this guy Braxton Hunter

587
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:39,079
with Jonathan Pritchett, it would greatly encourage me because the

588
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,200
kind of the way you present Christianity in a reasonable,

589
00:28:42,319 --> 00:28:46,839
rational manner, but it's so winsome and thoughtful, and you're

590
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,359
able to engage even on really difficult, kind of hot

591
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,920
button issues in a way that I think invites people

592
00:28:53,119 --> 00:28:56,240
in which is something I want to learn to get

593
00:28:56,279 --> 00:28:59,799
better at as well. And so I guess thinking about

594
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,640
you engage online, like what are some of the the

595
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,079
guiding principles that you keep in mind that that enable

596
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,000
you to be able to engage in that way? Sorry,

597
00:29:11,039 --> 00:29:12,039
that was very long winded.

598
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 2: No, I appreciate it.

599
00:29:13,359 --> 00:29:15,319
Speaker 4: I don't mind people being long winded when they're saying

600
00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:22,119
how wonderful I am. But the truth is, I have

601
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,599
a hard time being a jerk in general. There are

602
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,000
some people that that's their spiritual gift is being a

603
00:29:28,119 --> 00:29:31,119
jerk to people online. That's not that's not me, and

604
00:29:31,279 --> 00:29:34,000
so as a result, like I want to be I'm

605
00:29:34,039 --> 00:29:38,599
inclined already to be nice to people also, like some

606
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,920
of sometimes the thing that can and look, God has

607
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,519
a place in his kingdom for different types of utensils here.

608
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,599
But I think a lot of people can come off

609
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,359
kind of as a jerk because they're not totally confident

610
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,759
in the strength of the argument, and they might see

611
00:29:54,759 --> 00:29:57,839
an attack as a threat to their faith or something.

612
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,720
And as an apologist, if you got online ministry, that

613
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,440
you should be confident enough about this that when you're

614
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:05,960
when you're going out to do this that you can

615
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,279
you're not bothered when they say you know that, well,

616
00:30:09,519 --> 00:30:12,400
the problem of evil, you know, shoots down theism or

617
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,680
something or whatever, or she at least shoots down in

618
00:30:14,799 --> 00:30:17,119
all powerful God of it. Well, I'm not worried about

619
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,880
that because I know how this argument goes. I've seen

620
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,359
the answers and we all have confidence. But the nice thing,

621
00:30:23,559 --> 00:30:26,720
I'm already keyed up to be that way, and I'm

622
00:30:26,839 --> 00:30:29,039
kind of a people pleaser, and that can be too much.

623
00:30:29,319 --> 00:30:31,680
That's why it's good that Pritchett is my balance, even

624
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,960
though he can be a blunt force instrument. Sometimes we

625
00:30:35,279 --> 00:30:37,160
balance each other that way, because I can go too

626
00:30:37,279 --> 00:30:39,920
far and water things down where I shouldn't trying to

627
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,480
trying to make it. I have good relationships with some

628
00:30:42,559 --> 00:30:48,119
of the big atheist creators. I've had conversations with Alex

629
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,160
O'Connor privately, and we were supposed to debate, but he

630
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:52,759
couldn't get over to America.

631
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,319
Speaker 2: It was during COVID, and then I have.

632
00:30:55,359 --> 00:30:58,359
Speaker 4: Good relationships with like Paulogia. If people know who Paulogia

633
00:30:58,519 --> 00:31:01,880
is online, people like that. Matt Dillahunty and I were

634
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,799
very pleasant. I'm sure he doesn't like me now because

635
00:31:03,799 --> 00:31:06,880
I've covered him much more straightforwardly since the debate, But

636
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,559
the fact is I wanted to have good relationships now.

637
00:31:09,599 --> 00:31:11,480
I will say that some of the relationships I've had

638
00:31:11,519 --> 00:31:15,200
with atheists have this make me sound thin skinned, but

639
00:31:15,359 --> 00:31:17,880
have hurt me a little bit because because some of

640
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,119
them did turn code on me kind of and that

641
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,119
sort of thing, but not all of them have. And

642
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,319
I think that seeing people like that as humans and

643
00:31:24,359 --> 00:31:26,599
all the things you would expect to hear an apologists

644
00:31:26,599 --> 00:31:30,200
say that's important stuff. But another thing about it is

645
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,200
when you're doing this kind of thing online. I think,

646
00:31:33,319 --> 00:31:36,799
especially if you're not like a professional content creator. I

647
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,119
think that sometimes if it starts to get to like

648
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,240
on Twitter, I still call it Twitter or Facebook or something,

649
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,680
and you feel like it's getting contentious. One of the

650
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,480
problems there is everybody wants to save face. So it

651
00:31:48,559 --> 00:31:51,920
might be good to invite, as an individual Christian, invite

652
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,920
that person to a private chat or DMS or something

653
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,559
where you can have where there's no performative side to that.

654
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:00,359
Speaker 2: That's one thing that I really try to do.

655
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 4: Another thing is share the Gospel as quickly as you can,

656
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,039
even in not in a forced way. But a guy

657
00:32:07,079 --> 00:32:09,599
I was speaking at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminaries Defend

658
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,680
Conference a few years ago, and someone asked me about this.

659
00:32:12,039 --> 00:32:13,799
Then this came to my mind in the moment. So

660
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,359
maybe it's like the Holy Spirit prompting me.

661
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:16,799
Speaker 2: I don't know.

662
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,559
Speaker 4: But the idea here is you may not get to

663
00:32:20,599 --> 00:32:23,839
say much to them because they might get distracted or

664
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,720
in a debate you might go off on other things.

665
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,640
So try to get the gospel in there as soon

666
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,720
as you can so that if nothing else happens. Hey man,

667
00:32:31,119 --> 00:32:33,759
the gospel is the power of God into salvation. So

668
00:32:33,799 --> 00:32:36,039
if we can get that out there and then what

669
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,440
we say is gravy on top of that, I think

670
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,599
that's really important. And those are kind of some principles

671
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,680
that also don't assume people have all the knowledge you

672
00:32:43,759 --> 00:32:46,480
have about how all this works. Sometimes even my co host,

673
00:32:46,519 --> 00:32:49,079
I'll notice him presuming knowledge on the part of the

674
00:32:49,119 --> 00:32:52,119
people that are in our audience, and you know, make

675
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,720
things as basic as possible, even if you have a

676
00:32:54,799 --> 00:32:57,680
more complex advanced channel.

677
00:32:57,759 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, that's another thing I was telling Brain

678
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,759
when we recorded the intros is that I think, you know,

679
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,720
people always use the phrase putting the cookies on the

680
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,000
bottom shelf, and I think that you're you're you're very

681
00:33:08,039 --> 00:33:10,920
good at that. Like even in the debate both of

682
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,599
the debates, you know, free will came up both the

683
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,240
debates we mentioned I know you've done others and you

684
00:33:17,319 --> 00:33:18,519
know that can be very complex.

685
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,359
Speaker 2: I mean, that can be a hard thing to follow.

686
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 3: But I feel like even if that was somebody's first

687
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,799
time hearing that, they could walk away and go, Okay,

688
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:27,039
I need to learn more.

689
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,279
Speaker 4: But I think I followed that. But that takes that

690
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,640
takes work and being intentional, well, you know, I did

691
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,079
try to use a lot of illustration and things like that.

692
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,799
And you know, a lot of the comments obviously on

693
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,160
that video of the debate as it exists on Dilla

694
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,079
Hunty's channel and online, a lot of the ones, at

695
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,200
least on my channel are are negative. Obviously overwhelmingly it's

696
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,880
atheist pointing out that I'm just worshiping my sky Daddy

697
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:52,440
or whatever it is.

698
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,039
Speaker 2: But a lot of them, a good.

699
00:33:56,119 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 4: Substantially more, I think than is typical on these debates,

700
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:00,880
are like, well, you know, I think Braxon is wrong,

701
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,000
but man, he was a nice guy, enjoyable to listen to.

702
00:34:03,599 --> 00:34:06,000
I've had people say that they came to christ after

703
00:34:06,119 --> 00:34:09,519
watching that debate, and we've shared those publicly, So, you know,

704
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,519
I think just trying to be friendly with the like

705
00:34:11,559 --> 00:34:13,039
in the deal hunting debate, I said, hey, I don't

706
00:34:13,039 --> 00:34:14,880
know who's going to win this, but I guarantee it

707
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,079
will be someone. It will be a bald headed and

708
00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:19,880
bearded man. Well, something as simple as that. You know,

709
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,840
we're both bald headed, bearded guys. We joke around. I

710
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,480
think that just takes some of the steam off of it. Now,

711
00:34:25,519 --> 00:34:27,519
maybe that's not always how it should be. Maybe there

712
00:34:27,599 --> 00:34:31,159
is someone who is propagating something in a very straightforward

713
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,639
way that is that is hurting people.

714
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 2: Is evil. You know, maybe we be more firm, but

715
00:34:37,079 --> 00:34:39,679
I still think the love is important.

716
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 3: But like even in the Barker debate where I was

717
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:45,719
so impressed with how you went out of your way

718
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,480
to point out to him that the chipmunk thing, the

719
00:34:50,559 --> 00:34:53,400
chipmunk climbing up on him or whatever like, endeared him

720
00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:56,920
to you. And I think it's important as apologists, and

721
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,880
you really model this, I think, to be vulnerable in

722
00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:02,639
that way, you know, to say like, hey, I really

723
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,079
care about you and I saw that you did this

724
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,559
and I appreciated it or it endeared me to you

725
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,519
or something like that, And I think I think that's

726
00:35:09,519 --> 00:35:10,960
a good lesson people could learn from you.

727
00:35:11,559 --> 00:35:14,199
Speaker 4: Well, I'm glad you saw it that way. And the

728
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,360
most important thing I think about all of this is

729
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:19,599
if you don't know the answer to something, here's what

730
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:20,000
you say.

731
00:35:20,119 --> 00:35:22,679
Speaker 2: Take notes on this. I don't know.

732
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 4: That's the answer. If you don't know something, say I

733
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,360
don't know, because first of all, that is also disarming.

734
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,679
You validated their question, you know. Secondly, when you try

735
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,400
to make up an answer, see I was raised a

736
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,719
little bit in the Southern Baptist world to think, if

737
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,840
you're the preacher, you thump the pulpit and say, thus,

738
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:41,639
saith the Lord. Even if you don't know what the

739
00:35:41,679 --> 00:35:44,760
Lord does, saith about that, and guess what, That's how

740
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,360
cults and false religions begin. So so if you don't know,

741
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,400
say I don't know, but I'll go find out and

742
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,199
I'll come back and we can have that discussion. And

743
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,119
in that way, you may not know how to be

744
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,239
an answer giver yet if you're just studying this stuff,

745
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,159
but you can be an answer finder for people. You say,

746
00:36:01,159 --> 00:36:02,719
I'll go find out and bring it back to you,

747
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:04,559
And in that way you could be an apologist today.

748
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 2: I love that.

749
00:36:05,639 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: I'm also a proponent of this idea of you know,

750
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,559
trying to win the person and not the argument. Of course,

751
00:36:12,159 --> 00:36:15,480
you want to make the strongest case possible, but if

752
00:36:15,519 --> 00:36:19,480
you lose the person or at what's the point. And

753
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,719
I think that that people, even if you don't move

754
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,599
the person you're debating with or talking to, everyone sees

755
00:36:26,679 --> 00:36:31,239
that interaction. When we Chad and I did spend quite

756
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,000
a bit of time debating in blogs and things like

757
00:36:34,079 --> 00:36:38,320
that in the comment sections with people, recurring visitors and

758
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,360
stuff like that. And I would get people texting me

759
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,320
personally say oh, well, thank you for this interaction with

760
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,159
so and so. So those are helpful and it's just

761
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,480
a mirror image of what you're saying with this debate.

762
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,760
You know, your interaction move the listener because like, wow,

763
00:36:54,199 --> 00:36:55,800
I thought this he was just going to try to

764
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,519
come and fight or defend his defend his position. But

765
00:36:59,559 --> 00:37:01,239
he's a real I like him.

766
00:37:01,639 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 2: And it's like it's.

767
00:37:02,639 --> 00:37:05,280
Speaker 1: Almost like if if the person doesn't like you, they're

768
00:37:05,639 --> 00:37:07,519
just not even going to listen to you. It's not

769
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,320
and like you said, you're talking about being a people pleaser,

770
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,719
but I don't think maybe that's the word. It's more like, no,

771
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,639
you want to win the person. You know. It's not

772
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,079
that people pleas are in the negative sense. Now you've

773
00:37:19,079 --> 00:37:21,559
been in the apologetic space for a long time. We're

774
00:37:21,559 --> 00:37:24,920
talking about debating people in blog comments, like there might

775
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,440
be people listening, Like what's a blog at this point?

776
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,880
And things are shifting online and how have you seen

777
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,440
things change as far as your engagement online? What's become easier,

778
00:37:36,519 --> 00:37:40,000
what's become harder? Do you find the playing field has changed.

779
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:40,880
What's been your.

780
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,519
Speaker 4: Experience absolutely, you know, as I said, when I first

781
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,079
started to take off with the channel, Mike Winger was

782
00:37:48,119 --> 00:37:50,079
one of the people that really helped me out a

783
00:37:50,199 --> 00:37:53,000
lot with that. I remember he did like a private

784
00:37:53,079 --> 00:37:55,559
stream one time just for a few of us and

785
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,360
himself that nobody could see. It was like unlisted, to

786
00:37:58,519 --> 00:38:01,039
help some of the people that he thought had some

787
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,000
potential here to kind of understand some of the stuff

788
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,239
you're talking about right now. But the way that the algorithms,

789
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,920
the way that the platforms have changed just in the

790
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,599
past few years since then is so dramatic that some

791
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,239
of that advice is still good, but a lot of

792
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,599
it is now irrelevant and and what and what is

793
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,039
being favored on YouTube, for example, and this is probably

794
00:38:21,079 --> 00:38:28,480
true across the platforms is really exaggerated thumbnails and titles

795
00:38:28,599 --> 00:38:31,280
and things like that, And to a certain degree, you

796
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,239
have to play ball with that. You don't want to

797
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,119
be dishonest, though. I think if you if you have

798
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,519
what we might call clickbait, you need to deliver on

799
00:38:38,599 --> 00:38:39,199
that clickbait.

800
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 1: I've noticed like three or four videos where you say

801
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,639
I'm going to quit this YouTube channel, and I've watched

802
00:38:44,679 --> 00:38:46,400
all of them you have not yet delivered, so.

803
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 2: Right, I like you.

804
00:38:49,559 --> 00:38:52,039
Speaker 3: I like you and Pritchet's thumbnails Braxton where you go.

805
00:38:55,039 --> 00:38:57,719
That's right, Yeah, we get goofy sometimes. In fact, my

806
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,880
wife has said to me before, She's like, why do

807
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,239
you make these stupid faces on your thumbnails? And I'm like, well,

808
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,079
it's not just me. Like Mike Winger's almost got a

809
00:39:07,119 --> 00:39:09,519
million subs and he does that. He told me to

810
00:39:09,599 --> 00:39:10,440
do that, and he's like.

811
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 2: She's like, I don't care. It doesn't look professional. And

812
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:14,920
I get it, man, I get it. There's a cringe

813
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:15,960
factor to all of that.

814
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,320
Speaker 4: But yeah, there are things that have changed. TikTok you

815
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,599
have to handle differently than you do Twitter that you

816
00:39:22,679 --> 00:39:25,239
have to handle differently than YouTube and Facebook, and I

817
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,880
have slightly different audiences on all of those things. But

818
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,840
one of the like, well, I'm in a season of

819
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,480
experimentation right now, trying to figure out different formats. That

820
00:39:34,599 --> 00:39:35,840
was one of the things I said in the video

821
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,719
you guys have referred to where I talked about core

822
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:42,119
facts is I'm trying different things right now, different formats,

823
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,239
and that means this year I've had some of our

824
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,800
biggest videos with like two hundred thousand views or more,

825
00:39:47,079 --> 00:39:49,159
and then I've had other videos that were the lowest,

826
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,079
Like I had a live stream this week that currently

827
00:39:51,199 --> 00:39:53,679
is like the lowest live stream for the time that

828
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,960
I think I've ever had. But then maybe the next

829
00:39:56,079 --> 00:39:59,000
video will be way high. You know, it's very it's strange,

830
00:39:59,039 --> 00:40:00,840
and you have to try to feel figure all that out.

831
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,960
And I think one of the most important things for

832
00:40:04,079 --> 00:40:07,119
me is I got our church to basically create a

833
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,840
sort of an online space for people that become Christians

834
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,440
through Trinity Radio or something else, so that I can

835
00:40:13,559 --> 00:40:15,599
send them because even though they might be in Canada

836
00:40:15,679 --> 00:40:18,719
or Mexico or whatever, I can send them there to

837
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,920
a hub where they can start figuring out the Christian

838
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,920
faith and have an online semblance of a church while

839
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,320
they're trying to figure out where they're going to go

840
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,199
to church. And so that's a way trying to fit

841
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,719
this all together. But man, you're right, it has made it.

842
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,880
I could probably think of a million different ways to

843
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,639
talk about that. But if you're a Christian content creator

844
00:40:38,679 --> 00:40:40,199
and you start to have a little size to you,

845
00:40:40,639 --> 00:40:43,559
I think finding a way for people that become Christians

846
00:40:43,599 --> 00:40:46,960
to plug into a trustworthy community is a really important thing.

847
00:40:47,599 --> 00:40:48,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, a couple questions.

848
00:40:48,639 --> 00:40:50,639
Speaker 3: So when you're talking about those different platforms, and this

849
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:55,440
is genuinely because I'm on Facebook and X like that's it, right,

850
00:40:55,599 --> 00:40:58,159
And I'm not like a content creator in the sense

851
00:40:58,159 --> 00:41:01,440
that you're talking about. Right, So, when you have all

852
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:06,360
those different platforms, is that you and Pritchett managing like

853
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,199
all of that. Do you have a team that helps

854
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:09,679
you do that?

855
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,079
Speaker 2: How do what does that look like? Kind of behind

856
00:41:12,079 --> 00:41:12,840
the scenes.

857
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 4: You know, just like most people do on those different platforms.

858
00:41:16,079 --> 00:41:18,679
We have moderators that are just fans that we give

859
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,119
them the rent, you know, so they can make changes.

860
00:41:21,519 --> 00:41:23,840
But for the most part, it's me and Pritchett. Pritchett

861
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,400
handles a lot in our Facebook group. I'll post new

862
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,519
content there. Occasionally I'll post something. It's usually him YouTube.

863
00:41:30,559 --> 00:41:33,320
It's all me. We're still small enough that we can

864
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,760
do all that sort of thing, and we like, we

865
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,480
like doing all that. But I know other creators that

866
00:41:38,639 --> 00:41:41,719
have that have started to hire or pay a little

867
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:43,159
bit to someone to help them out.

868
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:43,559
Speaker 2: Yeah.

869
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:50,119
Speaker 3: Okay, if somebody is listening and they're thinking about possibly

870
00:41:51,159 --> 00:41:53,360
I think this is something that I'm feeling led to do.

871
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,119
You know, and you know, maybe perhaps are praying and

872
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,559
the Lord keeps prompting them to you need to start

873
00:41:58,679 --> 00:42:02,119
an online minister, or move in the direction of a

874
00:42:02,199 --> 00:42:06,920
content creator or whatnot. Are there any kind of pitfalls

875
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,920
that you would encourage them to avoid? Is there any

876
00:42:11,079 --> 00:42:13,679
like kind of first one or two or three steps

877
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:18,079
you'd encourage them, like here's where to start, anything along

878
00:42:18,119 --> 00:42:18,599
those lines.

879
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that the most important. Well, so for

880
00:42:22,679 --> 00:42:26,920
podcasting you have probably very helpful analytics that tell you

881
00:42:27,079 --> 00:42:30,039
exactly what's going on. And for your website you probably

882
00:42:30,119 --> 00:42:32,800
have the same thing. And YouTube does a good job

883
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,800
with that. But when you're trying, when you're thinking about

884
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,159
the different popular social media platforms, they don't count things

885
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:42,760
the same YouTube counts things in a very fair way.

886
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,559
I think that gives you a realistic picture of who's

887
00:42:46,679 --> 00:42:51,760
engaging with your content. Facebook and X, as far as

888
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:56,599
I understand, somewhat inflate the numbers because on YouTube, I

889
00:42:56,599 --> 00:42:58,079
don't know if this is still a case, but like

890
00:42:58,159 --> 00:43:00,679
you have to watch it for however many seconds before

891
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,119
it'll technically count as a view, and then if there's

892
00:43:03,159 --> 00:43:06,159
double views, they'll go back and rake that off. Whereas

893
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,800
on Facebook an X it just passing through your like

894
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,840
if you slowly pass over it as you're scrolling, well

895
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,440
that might count as a view. Well that's not really

896
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,800
a view. So that may tempt you to only post

897
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:18,840
on one particular platform because you say, well I got

898
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,079
ten thousand here and only got a thousand over there.

899
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,159
Well maybe those thousand were real thousand, and the other

900
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,440
ten thousand were people that just happened to scroll past,

901
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:30,360
and that counts as an impression, but shouldn't necessarily count

902
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,199
as a view. That kind of thing is important to

903
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,840
when you're choosing where you're going to post, because I

904
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,519
think that there's a war each of these platforms are

905
00:43:37,559 --> 00:43:40,440
trying to keep you on their platform for the longest

906
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,159
amount of time. YouTube wants you to accept that next

907
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,719
video that you linked because they want to keep somebody

908
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,400
there and not on Facebook or not on Rumble or

909
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,840
not on whatever else. And they all want to do that.

910
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:55,320
And that means, by the way, that if you make

911
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,880
a podcast, or you make a on one of these platforms,

912
00:43:59,199 --> 00:44:01,920
or you make make a YouTube video and then you

913
00:44:02,039 --> 00:44:06,679
try to share that video on Facebook from YouTube, it's

914
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,199
probably not going to get the legs, is my understanding.

915
00:44:09,679 --> 00:44:13,920
As if you natively posted that on Facebook or on Twitter.

916
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,079
And I've seen things that kind of bear that out.

917
00:44:16,119 --> 00:44:18,920
So that's important. Also the way you title these things,

918
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,440
and if you're doing a video, the way you thumbnail

919
00:44:21,519 --> 00:44:25,239
these things that has not changed. A great thumbnail and

920
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,440
a great title are really important, and AI can really

921
00:44:28,559 --> 00:44:31,199
really be helpful with this. So I think Brian asked

922
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,079
about like how AI has has done this? Man, I

923
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,719
type out about twenty titles, even if I think the

924
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,119
first one is a banger, I'll type out like twenty

925
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,599
titles to I'll force myself to do it to see

926
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:44,280
what I come up with, and I usually come up

927
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:46,679
with something better. And then there are online tools that

928
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,000
you can go to and ask it Chat, GBT you

929
00:44:49,079 --> 00:44:50,920
can go to and ask. You can say, here's my

930
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,280
thumbnail that I'm working with, here's the title that I

931
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,559
think I like. How can I make this better? You

932
00:44:55,639 --> 00:44:57,800
can tell it, Hey, the title, I only want four

933
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,800
or five words and it'll work within that. So and

934
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:03,119
it does a pretty good job being helpful with that.

935
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,159
Some people don't like AI in their thumbnail images. Honestly,

936
00:45:07,679 --> 00:45:10,199
it's an easy way if you like, go to Canva's

937
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,679
AI image upscaler. You've had the problem trying to create

938
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,400
graphics for what we do and you get the perfect

939
00:45:16,519 --> 00:45:19,039
image of the guy that you're interviewing or something, but

940
00:45:19,119 --> 00:45:21,840
it's grainy. It's you know, he's not he hasn't done

941
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,639
public professional stuff. It's like grainy and all that. Well,

942
00:45:25,679 --> 00:45:28,440
now it's so easy to like throw that into Canva's

943
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,239
AI image upscaler and you can choose I want it

944
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,039
two times, four times, eight times. You do more than

945
00:45:34,079 --> 00:45:36,119
two times and it starts to look weird, but you

946
00:45:36,199 --> 00:45:38,559
can make it look like a pretty decent People don't

947
00:45:38,599 --> 00:45:40,639
know really if it's AI or not with that, and

948
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,599
that has really revolutionized and has helped me with clicks.

949
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:48,159
So I think those are some things, especially thumbnail and title,

950
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:49,079
that are really important.

951
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,639
Speaker 3: One of the things I think about, and even just

952
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,719
with like blogging on truth Bomb, I've kind of narrowed

953
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:56,960
over the years what I address on there, and it

954
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,559
typically is based around what I personally find interesting.

955
00:46:01,159 --> 00:46:02,679
Speaker 2: But as a content creator, I feel like.

956
00:46:02,679 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 3: There's that expectation of when there are these like certain

957
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,360
hot topics going on in the body of Christ or

958
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:12,119
in the news, uh that I can imagine there's sometimes

959
00:46:12,199 --> 00:46:14,960
like a draw of feeling like we need to address this,

960
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:17,320
that and the other thing. So in this kind of

961
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,800
vast world of online madness, if you will, how do

962
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,639
you guys decide like what to address and kind of

963
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,400
what to to not address.

964
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:29,199
Speaker 2: Does that make sense?

965
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,599
Speaker 4: Well, we mess that up horribly, and a lot of

966
00:46:31,679 --> 00:46:33,480
us who have been doing it for several years messed

967
00:46:33,519 --> 00:46:36,760
that up. And I'll tell you why. Really, if you

968
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,760
want to grow your channel, so Winger, I refer to

969
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:42,199
Mike Queen or a lot because he's been really helpful

970
00:46:42,199 --> 00:46:44,400
and we all know he's really successful sure at this,

971
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,400
and he told us, uh privately, he said, look, if

972
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,119
you if you whatever it is you're doing, if your

973
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:56,159
whole thing is crocheting lizards, there are two billion people

974
00:46:56,519 --> 00:46:59,920
out there on YouTube or whatever, and so there are

975
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,320
there are hundreds of thousands, if not a million, people

976
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:06,480
who would really like to watch you crochet lizards. And

977
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,519
so so the people are out there now obviously for someone.

978
00:47:10,559 --> 00:47:12,280
So you got to realize your baby's ugly and that

979
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,559
you know by that we mean what you're producing is

980
00:47:14,679 --> 00:47:17,719
just bad. Okay, But but there really are a lot

981
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,400
of people who probably want whatever you've got. But here's

982
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,280
the thing. They might like the thing you made on Monday,

983
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,639
but not care anything about the thing you made on Wednesday,

984
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:30,679
And so most of us have wrongly in terms of growth,

985
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:34,199
and Winger says this about himself been broad in our

986
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:38,360
topics and broad in our variation of lengths of videos

987
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,960
or podcasts or whatever. And really, if you like, if

988
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:43,639
you have a video, like one of the big videos

989
00:47:43,639 --> 00:47:45,920
that took off early was when ret and Link from

990
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,760
Good Mythical Morning Online, Oh first deconverted. I did an

991
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:54,599
hour long video on that, really addressing like everything that

992
00:47:54,679 --> 00:47:57,800
he laid out, well that not went up to like

993
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,760
seventy thousand or something back with my chain wasn't anywhere

994
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:03,159
close to doing anything like that. You know what I

995
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,320
should have done is the very next video I produced

996
00:48:06,559 --> 00:48:08,480
should have been on ret and Link and a similar

997
00:48:08,559 --> 00:48:11,440
thing about retin Link, because I brought in all these

998
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,000
eyeballs over ret and Link, and the next thing I

999
00:48:14,119 --> 00:48:17,599
gave them was like, you know, the moral argument or

1000
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:18,800
calvinism or.

1001
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 2: Something, you know, something else I was talking about that

1002
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:21,880
they don't care about.

1003
00:48:22,159 --> 00:48:24,760
Speaker 4: So if you make your channel narrow in that sense,

1004
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,840
like hey, my channel is all about response videos to

1005
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,440
atheists that are ten minutes long. Oh man, that's great

1006
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,360
because every time someone comes to your channel to get

1007
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:35,480
in the same kind of thing. But if you did

1008
00:48:35,559 --> 00:48:39,239
that today and then next week you're talking about crocheng lizards, well,

1009
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,440
the kroscheng lizards people don't care anything about the atheist stuff,

1010
00:48:42,639 --> 00:48:45,000
and the atheists probably don't care about the crocheng lizards.

1011
00:48:45,199 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 1: People are going to subscribe to a channel where they

1012
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:50,760
know what they're going to get. They want, Oh, you're

1013
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:55,320
going to dispense me x every week or whatever, Okay,

1014
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,199
I'll sign up for that, but random stuff. I just

1015
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,320
to clear my feet every time I see you up.

1016
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,039
So yeah, totally get that.

1017
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, that may be specific to YouTube. And it's also

1018
00:49:05,079 --> 00:49:08,239
true that as your channel grows a little bigger, you

1019
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,119
can widen what you offer a little bit because.

1020
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 2: You have more of a base.

1021
00:49:12,599 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, on good point.

1022
00:49:13,599 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 2: That's really helpful.

1023
00:49:14,639 --> 00:49:17,559
Speaker 3: All right, So a couple questions about the Matt Dell

1024
00:49:17,679 --> 00:49:20,599
Hunty debate that I've that speaking of YouTube views, like,

1025
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:22,519
I don't know, eighty four of those might be me.

1026
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 2: I don't know, but anyway, I'm exaggerating, but I appreciate that.

1027
00:49:26,679 --> 00:49:26,800
Speaker 1: Man.

1028
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:28,519
Speaker 2: I studied for that thing for eight months.

1029
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 3: Well, it was very evident, which I'm going to talk

1030
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:32,800
about in a moment. But it's one of those things

1031
00:49:33,079 --> 00:49:36,039
now where sometimes when I want to listen to something

1032
00:49:36,159 --> 00:49:39,679
that I'm familiar with, and I find it's almost like

1033
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,239
such a wonderfully done debate that I'm like, I'm gonna

1034
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:45,119
go back and listen to practice comfort food.

1035
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 4: It is.

1036
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 2: It's comforting, it is.

1037
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:47,559
Speaker 4: It is.

1038
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 2: It's just like, yeah, I don't know, but great. So

1039
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,559
I remember when William Lane.

1040
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:58,039
Speaker 3: Craig debated Christopher Hitchens, and one of the things that

1041
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:00,679
people took away from that is it was a very

1042
00:50:01,079 --> 00:50:03,960
kind of different Christopher Hitchins, like he was almost on

1043
00:50:04,119 --> 00:50:07,599
his People said he was almost on his best behavior.

1044
00:50:08,639 --> 00:50:11,239
And I don't know if that's because Craig was so formidable.

1045
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 2: I'm not sure.

1046
00:50:13,079 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 3: I suspect that's what it was, but you know, I

1047
00:50:15,559 --> 00:50:18,000
don't know, because certainly he spoke in front of Christian

1048
00:50:18,039 --> 00:50:21,159
audiences and had no qualms being Christopher Hitchins. So I

1049
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:24,840
kind of attributed to that, but I wondered I got

1050
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:28,599
that same impression with this debate. Now now I enjoy

1051
00:50:29,079 --> 00:50:31,480
I'm like you, I enjoy listening to Matt. There are

1052
00:50:31,559 --> 00:50:34,719
things I agree with Matt on so so this isn't

1053
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:36,760
at all a slight on him. But but sometimes he

1054
00:50:37,519 --> 00:50:40,199
can and I think sometimes it's rhetorical. I think it

1055
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:43,039
is a strategy on his part. He can get rather

1056
00:50:43,199 --> 00:50:48,199
cantankerous and argumentative. And I saw almost none of that

1057
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,800
in your debate with him, and it seemed like that

1058
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:56,199
the rapport was great. And is that your impression too.

1059
00:50:56,719 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was actually coming there expecting what I had watched.

1060
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,400
I'd watched everything Matt Dyland he had ever done by

1061
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,880
that line, Yeah, which gave me a lot of content

1062
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:08,199
to make videos about later on.

1063
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 2: That also helped the channel.

1064
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,159
Speaker 4: But anyway, the first thing I said to him when

1065
00:51:13,199 --> 00:51:15,719
I walked in, I had met him once before at

1066
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:19,519
the same conference two years prior. He had walked in

1067
00:51:19,599 --> 00:51:21,440
and listened to me give a talk about core facts

1068
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:24,079
as a matter of fact, and he gave me some notes.

1069
00:51:24,119 --> 00:51:26,159
He's like, I really liked your presentation. Here's some things

1070
00:51:26,199 --> 00:51:29,000
I would do and so so that was nice and

1071
00:51:29,039 --> 00:51:31,440
I was really nice to him that day. And then

1072
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,639
when we met, we met kind of in the aisle

1073
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,400
at Baylor University in the chapel we were in and

1074
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:43,360
I said, man, Matt, Hey, I've really appreciates you as

1075
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:46,559
a public speaker. Obviously we disagree about the substantive things,

1076
00:51:46,599 --> 00:51:49,039
but you know, I was really nice to him, asked

1077
00:51:49,119 --> 00:51:51,599
him about is I think there were some things going

1078
00:51:51,639 --> 00:51:53,480
on in his life personally at that time that I

1079
00:51:53,559 --> 00:51:55,440
knew about, So I was asking him about that. He

1080
00:51:55,519 --> 00:51:58,400
seemed to appreciate that I asked him a little Somehow.

1081
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,440
He ended up telling me, Hey, I'm not going to

1082
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,119
be like I am on the Atheist Experience his television show.

1083
00:52:04,079 --> 00:52:05,960
I'm going to be more, you know. And I was like, okay,

1084
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,760
well great, And so I took advantage of that to

1085
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:13,519
tell you the truth. Not deceptively, but I said everything

1086
00:52:13,559 --> 00:52:16,360
I was going to say and put him in a

1087
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,239
tough spot where if he's going to if if he

1088
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,079
I'm gonna, I'm gonna let him. Give him every opportunity

1089
00:52:22,199 --> 00:52:25,039
to be the Matt Dillon Hunty we've seen on television,

1090
00:52:25,039 --> 00:52:27,559
because that's what I expected. But if he's gonna, if

1091
00:52:27,599 --> 00:52:29,960
he's gonna not bring it, I'm.

1092
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:30,559
Speaker 2: Still gonna bring it.

1093
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 4: So that was my goal, right because I'm not gonna

1094
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,119
feel bad for mad or for our discussion. I want

1095
00:52:36,159 --> 00:52:38,639
to destroy atheism here cut the legs out from under it.

1096
00:52:39,559 --> 00:52:42,280
So anyway, but it was very cordial and we joked

1097
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:44,000
around a little bit during the debate. But you're right,

1098
00:52:44,039 --> 00:52:45,239
it was the tone was good.

1099
00:52:46,159 --> 00:52:48,159
Speaker 3: And do you think that was because what do you

1100
00:52:48,199 --> 00:52:50,760
attribute that to the fact that you just the way

1101
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:52,039
you kind of approached.

1102
00:52:51,679 --> 00:52:55,199
Speaker 4: It or the demeanor. Yeah, the demeanor just being a

1103
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,559
human being to him before. I think that's why a

1104
00:52:57,599 --> 00:52:59,360
lot of times you hear about with these debates, like

1105
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:02,719
they'll go out to dinner before the debate or something

1106
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,079
like that. I think that's actually a really good strategic

1107
00:53:05,159 --> 00:53:07,639
thing for the moderator of the debate or the host,

1108
00:53:08,039 --> 00:53:10,559
because it makes people see each other as human beings

1109
00:53:10,559 --> 00:53:13,079
a little bit more than a talking head on the computer.

1110
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so so preparation for something like that.

1111
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 3: Just again, I think this will interest listeners, you know,

1112
00:53:19,639 --> 00:53:21,920
kind of behind the scenes, who who may think. I

1113
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,079
think sometimes you watch, like you watch that debate and

1114
00:53:24,119 --> 00:53:26,440
you're like, I could I could do that, Yeah, you know,

1115
00:53:26,599 --> 00:53:28,280
but there's a lot more to it than that. It's

1116
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,519
like watching It's like watching you know, Novak Djokovic play

1117
00:53:31,559 --> 00:53:33,480
tennis and you're like, that looks easy, and then you

1118
00:53:33,599 --> 00:53:37,360
go out and actually try to play and so kind

1119
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:42,760
of that behind the scenes obviously watching tons of Matt's content, right,

1120
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:44,440
but what else does that look like?

1121
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 2: Hey, yeah, I'd love to talk about that. I there was.

1122
00:53:47,639 --> 00:53:47,920
I don't know.

1123
00:53:48,039 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 4: Some of your followers may know a guy named Layton Flowers.

1124
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:55,199
He's got a ministry talking about Calvinism, but and he's

1125
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,639
not a Calvinist. But he became a close friend of

1126
00:53:58,679 --> 00:54:02,559
mine because he debating account He was going to debate

1127
00:54:02,639 --> 00:54:04,719
James White for those that might know who James White is,

1128
00:54:05,119 --> 00:54:07,599
and before that first debate, he was looking for people

1129
00:54:07,679 --> 00:54:10,199
from his background as a Baptist who had to have

1130
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:12,599
debates with Calvinists, and I had had two or three

1131
00:54:12,639 --> 00:54:15,719
by that point, and he found those and so we

1132
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:17,960
became friends, and then we started to work together, and

1133
00:54:18,039 --> 00:54:20,199
now he's a professor forrest at our school and he's

1134
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:21,599
one of my best friends in the world.

1135
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:22,760
Speaker 2: But he called me up.

1136
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 4: He was the head of Texas Baptist Apologetics at the time,

1137
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:29,400
who was putting on the conference where Dila Hunty and

1138
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:32,639
I debated, and where Michaelacona had debated him two years before,

1139
00:54:33,199 --> 00:54:34,760
And so he called me up and he said, hey,

1140
00:54:35,519 --> 00:54:38,320
you wanted to debate Matt Dilla Hunty and to tell

1141
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,280
you the truth. Just because of the way Dila Hunty

1142
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:45,239
presents himself online, it was intimidating and so I was like, man,

1143
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:47,159
I don't know, I have to think about that. And

1144
00:54:47,199 --> 00:54:49,039
he was like, oh, don't worry. I could get married

1145
00:54:49,119 --> 00:54:50,400
Joe Sharp or Frank Turk to do it.

1146
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:51,800
Speaker 2: They'll be happy. I was like, went out, hold on

1147
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:52,599
a second, you know.

1148
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 4: Maybe we'll do So I ended up agreeing to do it,

1149
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:57,760
but I was very nervous about how it was going

1150
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:00,320
to go. As it turns out, this is going to

1151
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:02,480
I hope this doesn't sound arrogant. As it turned out,

1152
00:55:02,519 --> 00:55:04,000
I could have had the debate the next day after

1153
00:55:04,079 --> 00:55:07,920
we scheduled it. But I studied for eight months and

1154
00:55:08,039 --> 00:55:10,559
it gave me a lot of good content. I uh,

1155
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:13,000
you know, And what I would do is not just

1156
00:55:13,119 --> 00:55:15,119
listening to everything Dila Hunty said, and some of it

1157
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:17,400
more than once. And some of the best del Hunting

1158
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:19,320
debates are with a guy named Blake Junta. I don't

1159
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:20,400
know if you guys know Blake Joe.

1160
00:55:20,519 --> 00:55:23,199
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I think he's done an incredible job with

1161
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,760
Dila Hunty. But but you know. The way.

1162
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 4: What I would do is, since Dila Hunty has all

1163
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:33,320
this online content where he's debating, I would try to

1164
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,079
find one that I hadn't listened to yet, and then

1165
00:55:36,079 --> 00:55:39,760
I would play Dila Hunty's opening statement, and I would

1166
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:41,920
take notes as though the debate was happening and it

1167
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,159
was me right there. And then as soon as he

1168
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,000
got done, I would pause it without any idea really

1169
00:55:47,079 --> 00:55:48,440
what I was going to say when I stood up,

1170
00:55:48,639 --> 00:55:50,679
and I would stand up as though it was my debate,

1171
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,119
without hearing what the Christian was going to say, and

1172
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:56,079
I would respond, and I would get to the point

1173
00:55:56,119 --> 00:55:56,400
where I.

1174
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,599
Speaker 2: Was really confident. What's that That's a great idea.

1175
00:56:00,079 --> 00:56:02,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I encourage that as like a preparation thing. And

1176
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,559
then and what's funny is when I ran out of

1177
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:08,079
I ran out of Matt Dila Hunting debates to do

1178
00:56:08,159 --> 00:56:10,159
that with because I'd heard them all, and so I

1179
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:13,920
switched when I was preparing for Dila Hunty to Dan

1180
00:56:14,079 --> 00:56:18,440
Barker debates because he argues somewhat similarly. And that was

1181
00:56:18,559 --> 00:56:20,719
maybe the providence of God, because I ended up debating

1182
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:23,440
Dan Barker right after that, So I had already done

1183
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:25,719
a lot of preparation ahead of time. That way, I

1184
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,199
recommend that as a good strategy there, and again I

1185
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:33,639
also recommend mixing in humor, mixing in. I think you

1186
00:56:33,679 --> 00:56:37,519
should write what are called briefs. I know other apologists

1187
00:56:37,559 --> 00:56:40,199
who do this, where you write like things that they

1188
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:43,480
could object with, and you write like a little paragraph.

1189
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,519
I had like four pages on biblical slavery and things

1190
00:56:46,599 --> 00:56:48,480
like that, just in case still a Hunty brought it up,

1191
00:56:48,639 --> 00:56:51,159
because he so often does. He didn't, but I had

1192
00:56:51,199 --> 00:56:54,400
pages on everything in a notebook with tabs, a physical

1193
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:57,719
notebook book, because in a debate, I don't trust the technology.

1194
00:56:57,800 --> 00:56:59,960
If something goes wrong with my tablet, I'm in trouble.

1195
00:57:00,119 --> 00:57:03,119
So paper is what I went with and tabs, and

1196
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:05,400
so if he asked me about any subject, I can

1197
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:07,960
open up right there and write, there's my notes. But honestly,

1198
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:09,840
I've already memorized it all at that point and know

1199
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:10,280
what I'm.

1200
00:57:10,199 --> 00:57:10,639
Speaker 2: Going to say.

1201
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:13,039
Speaker 4: But it's just a backup. And so that was really good.

1202
00:57:13,119 --> 00:57:15,960
And look for moments to be charitable, like a plan

1203
00:57:16,199 --> 00:57:18,400
for moments to be charitable. So there was a moment

1204
00:57:18,519 --> 00:57:20,000
during the Q and A that people can see in

1205
00:57:20,079 --> 00:57:22,079
that debate may have been the first question in the

1206
00:57:22,159 --> 00:57:26,079
Q and A. This kid gets up as a Christian

1207
00:57:26,079 --> 00:57:28,840
who's actually a supporter of my ministry and already was

1208
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:30,639
a follower, and I didn't know that at the time.

1209
00:57:31,119 --> 00:57:33,559
His name's Drew And he got up and he said,

1210
00:57:33,639 --> 00:57:36,360
why do you call yourself? Do you believe that God

1211
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:39,079
does not exist? And Dila Hunty says, well, now, I

1212
00:57:39,119 --> 00:57:41,440
don't believe that God does not exist. I lack a

1213
00:57:41,519 --> 00:57:43,559
belief in God, or I don't believe in God, you know.

1214
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:45,679
And he says, well, then why don't you call yourself

1215
00:57:45,679 --> 00:57:46,360
an agnostic?

1216
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 2: Fair question?

1217
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:49,639
Speaker 3: But Dila Hunty got upset and he's like, hold on

1218
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:52,000
a second. I've hosted the Atheist Experience for all these

1219
00:57:52,079 --> 00:57:54,039
years and raw rah rayh and all that, and I

1220
00:57:54,199 --> 00:57:55,480
took up for Dila Hunty there.

1221
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:58,639
Speaker 4: I said, look, I said, I might sympathize with the

1222
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:01,320
questioner here, but the fact is is it's more important

1223
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:04,920
we're having discussions with unbelievers to hear how they're using

1224
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,880
that term and what they mean by that term, instead

1225
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:10,480
of like trying to force them to use your terms.

1226
00:58:10,519 --> 00:58:12,159
Because the point here is we're just trying to understand

1227
00:58:12,199 --> 00:58:14,760
what that guy believes, so we can properly address that.

1228
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,519
And I said that, and I think Dilla Hunt he

1229
00:58:17,559 --> 00:58:20,480
appreciated that, and in fact it threw him off because

1230
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:24,199
a question later someone asked him about the cosmological argument

1231
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:27,519
and he said he said something like, well, you know,

1232
00:58:28,039 --> 00:58:29,760
my understanding is that or no, he didn't even say

1233
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:34,639
my understanding. He said, well, they added in that everything

1234
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:38,679
that begins to exist must have a cause later, because

1235
00:58:38,719 --> 00:58:43,320
the original cosmological argument would just said everything requires a cause. Well,

1236
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:45,639
I knew he couldn't substantiate that, because, for one thing,

1237
00:58:45,719 --> 00:58:49,159
there's not the original cosmological argument. There's all kinds of

1238
00:58:49,199 --> 00:58:52,199
cosmological arguments. But I asked him right there. Now, this

1239
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:54,800
was right after we had developed some we had fostered,

1240
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:57,360
like some goodwill toward each other, and then I just

1241
00:58:57,440 --> 00:58:59,800
fire across them, Hey, Matt, can you can you demonstrate

1242
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:00,760
that that's his term?

1243
00:59:01,119 --> 00:59:01,719
Speaker 2: Demonstrate?

1244
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:05,599
Speaker 4: Can you demonstrate that? Demonstrate what that the original colomb

1245
00:59:05,719 --> 00:59:08,360
had that think, Well, that's what I've been taught. I mean,

1246
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:10,119
I don't know, maybe I could. I said, maybe you

1247
00:59:10,159 --> 00:59:12,440
could send it to me after say, and well I

1248
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:14,880
guess so, Well that really scored some points in the

1249
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:18,599
eyes of the audience for whom Dila Hunty's glass jaw

1250
00:59:18,719 --> 00:59:21,800
had never been shattered. Well right there, because I had

1251
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:25,039
been friendly prior to that with him, and then straightforward

1252
00:59:25,079 --> 00:59:27,000
about that. We caught him in a moment where he

1253
00:59:27,079 --> 00:59:29,639
maybe thought I wouldn't have pressed, and as a result,

1254
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:32,079
I've never gotten that answer back from Dila Hunty.

1255
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:34,119
Speaker 2: I was just getting ready to ask you that. Okay,

1256
00:59:34,239 --> 00:59:35,840
let me let me ask you guys this, this is

1257
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:36,320
both of you.

1258
00:59:36,559 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 3: Is it really sad that as you're recalling these moments

1259
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:42,599
and the debate, that I can hear them in my head?

1260
00:59:43,599 --> 00:59:46,360
Does that mean I have problems? I think maybe I

1261
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:48,639
literally could hear that part of the Q and A.

1262
00:59:49,519 --> 00:59:53,519
I even remember what really set Matt off, calling Matt

1263
00:59:53,679 --> 00:59:55,679
like I know him. Sorry if you ever hear this, Matt,

1264
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:59,559
mister Dilla Hunty, whatever, you prefer, no disrespect. But it

1265
00:59:59,719 --> 01:00:01,639
was the It was the fact that the guy asked

1266
01:00:01,679 --> 01:00:05,559
him about atheism. Apparently he was smirking, and that's really

1267
01:00:05,639 --> 01:00:08,320
what he was like, are you smirking right now?

1268
01:00:08,599 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 2: And I remember listening.

1269
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:12,199
Speaker 3: I had my earbuds in and I was outside doing work,

1270
01:00:12,239 --> 01:00:15,519
and I was like, oh crap, I'm so glad.

1271
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:20,639
Speaker 4: I'm so glad this happened because I'm so glad now

1272
01:00:22,119 --> 01:00:24,400
in other people's debates. I've heard every William Line Craig

1273
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:25,360
debate twenty times.

1274
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:26,039
Speaker 2: I know it's okay.

1275
01:00:26,079 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 3: That makes me feel better because I was like, this

1276
01:00:28,159 --> 01:00:29,960
is really sad, Chad. You can hear the audio in

1277
01:00:30,039 --> 01:00:31,320
your head is he's talking like what?

1278
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 2: I love it? So, do you have any upcoming debates?

1279
01:00:36,559 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 4: No? You know, honestly, I'll just tell you debate. I'll

1280
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:43,119
be open about this. Debates take a lot out of me.

1281
01:00:44,119 --> 01:00:47,559
I'm not I think I was. I don't know if

1282
01:00:47,559 --> 01:00:49,960
they call me an introvert or not. You know, they

1283
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:52,440
say there's a middle one amb avert. I don't know,

1284
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:55,760
but I've classically thought of myself as an introvert cause

1285
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:59,320
playing as an extrovert because all the things like when

1286
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:02,280
I'm when I publicly and all that, I shake, all

1287
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:04,559
the hands, I kiss, all the babies. I'm happy to

1288
01:01:04,599 --> 01:01:06,000
be there, and I really am happy to be there,

1289
01:01:06,039 --> 01:01:07,840
and I love everybody there. But then I got to

1290
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,079
go be alone for a while and like watch TV

1291
01:01:10,559 --> 01:01:12,679
because or or just be with my people. You know

1292
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,679
that I'm most comfortable with, because that does drain me

1293
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:19,239
and debates for some reason, I think I think I'm

1294
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:21,199
good at debates. I think I'm good at this, but

1295
01:01:22,639 --> 01:01:26,519
it's so taxing and takes so much to prepare for

1296
01:01:26,599 --> 01:01:29,840
all that as a person who's kind of OCD and

1297
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:32,719
I'm not saying that flippantly, I do have OCD diagnosed,

1298
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:35,159
But because of that, it takes so much out of

1299
01:01:35,239 --> 01:01:39,159
me that for the past few years I've been trying

1300
01:01:39,199 --> 01:01:42,000
to focus so much on our school and my kids

1301
01:01:42,159 --> 01:01:44,920
as they've been teenagers, that I haven't wanted to block

1302
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,639
out like a two month or three month period to

1303
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:51,360
mostly be obsessed with this debate. You know, I do

1304
01:01:51,519 --> 01:01:53,880
plan to come back to it, and I am often asked,

1305
01:01:54,239 --> 01:01:57,000
and there are moments on Trindy Radio where you've had

1306
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,320
an atheist on and it wasn't supposed to be a

1307
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:00,239
debate and it didn't up.

1308
01:02:00,239 --> 01:02:01,199
Speaker 2: I debated him kind of.

1309
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:05,960
Speaker 4: But I'm kind of taking a break from debating for

1310
01:02:06,039 --> 01:02:07,639
a few years, and then I do plan to get

1311
01:02:07,679 --> 01:02:08,199
back into it.

1312
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 2: Though excellent.

1313
01:02:10,119 --> 01:02:12,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with you, I think, and this is

1314
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:16,679
me you know, being objective, not fanboying or whatnot. But

1315
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:20,239
I do think you're very good at it and would

1316
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:22,559
love to see you do more, but I, of course understand.

1317
01:02:23,119 --> 01:02:25,960
I can only imagine the time commitment that it requires

1318
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:28,480
in the mental band with you say you're a fanboy

1319
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:30,599
or not a fan or however you said that. But

1320
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:34,159
maybe I'm a fanboy because I've always been afraid you

1321
01:02:34,239 --> 01:02:34,880
might sue me.

1322
01:02:35,559 --> 01:02:36,159
Speaker 2: Do you know why?

1323
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 4: No?

1324
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:41,280
Speaker 2: Don't you run truth bomb Apologetics? Yeah? Okay.

1325
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 4: I took all my blog articles at one point and

1326
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:47,119
that I had written and made a little book out

1327
01:02:47,119 --> 01:02:48,880
of that to give away when people sign up for

1328
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:52,280
our newsletter. Yeah, and so I called it truth Bombs

1329
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:55,280
Brief Thoughts on big issues. And I was like, man,

1330
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:58,440
I hope that truth Bombs guy doesn't call me on copyright.

1331
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 2: That's so funny. I have not copyrighted it. So's we're good. Yeah,

1332
01:03:05,079 --> 01:03:05,519
we're good.

1333
01:03:06,679 --> 01:03:09,960
Speaker 3: You mentioned that's so funny. You mentioned Trinity the school

1334
01:03:10,239 --> 01:03:13,320
just before we finish up. Would you mind telling us

1335
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:15,599
a little bit about that and case listeners are looking

1336
01:03:15,719 --> 01:03:18,360
for a school to attend, and then of course let

1337
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:20,480
us know where listeners can find more of your stuff.

1338
01:03:20,639 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 2: Be happy to Yeah.

1339
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 4: I'm the president of Trinity College of the Bible and

1340
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:28,320
Theological Seminary in Evansville, Indiana. It's existed since nineteen sixty nine,

1341
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:32,880
always as a distance learning school, so whenever some of

1342
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:37,119
the distance learning type stuff. Online education was pioneered by

1343
01:03:37,159 --> 01:03:39,840
one of the former presidents of this school, and so

1344
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:41,440
we've been on the cutting edge of that for a

1345
01:03:41,519 --> 01:03:44,599
long long time. And in fact, we were like the

1346
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:49,960
third website in history that had a dot edu or

1347
01:03:50,039 --> 01:03:53,400
something like that, and so and so we've been at

1348
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:54,599
this for a long time. We know how to do

1349
01:03:54,719 --> 01:03:57,519
online education, were costs effective in a way that I

1350
01:03:57,559 --> 01:04:01,440
think a lot of schools aren't. And we're theologically conservative

1351
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:08,719
and biblically conservative in our approach. Now I want to

1352
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:10,440
be open about the fact that you might be just

1353
01:04:10,519 --> 01:04:12,000
a layperson and want to go to school here. You

1354
01:04:12,079 --> 01:04:15,639
might be a person who wants a future in academia.

1355
01:04:16,199 --> 01:04:20,320
And our school doesn't have accreditation, but we have articulation

1356
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:24,079
agreements with a number of other schools. Well currently we

1357
01:04:24,159 --> 01:04:26,280
have with three other schools and working on a fourth.

1358
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:29,119
And what that means, and these are regionally accredited schools,

1359
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:32,320
so where you might spend like thirty or thirty thousand

1360
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:34,639
dollars or something going through a bachelor's program before you

1361
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:38,800
end up going into your masters. Well, you could come

1362
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:41,639
with us and spend a fraction of that and then

1363
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:46,280
articulate into one of our articulated schools and really get

1364
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:50,360
a financial boost there and a time boost to get

1365
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:52,079
you toward where you need to be and where you

1366
01:04:52,199 --> 01:04:54,400
want to be. And so those programs have been looked

1367
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:57,280
over by those other schools so that we're happy with that,

1368
01:04:57,400 --> 01:04:59,480
and we've had a good relationship with ship that way.

1369
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:05,280
You know what, our students have become department heads. Trinity

1370
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:09,159
graduates have become department heads at accredited schools. We have

1371
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:13,960
teachers and professors at some of the big schools, presidents

1372
01:05:14,079 --> 01:05:17,199
of seminaries who've had their only doctoral degree from US

1373
01:05:17,559 --> 01:05:19,599
and it's never held me back personally. So a lot

1374
01:05:19,639 --> 01:05:22,119
of our students stay with us straight on through to

1375
01:05:22,199 --> 01:05:24,480
their doctoral program. But I want people to know that

1376
01:05:24,559 --> 01:05:27,519
there is a pathway if you want to go further

1377
01:05:27,719 --> 01:05:30,840
in terms of accreditation. And so we've tried to be

1378
01:05:31,239 --> 01:05:33,280
all things to all people in that respect so that

1379
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:35,960
we can really be flexible and hopefully give people what

1380
01:05:36,039 --> 01:05:38,840
they need. And we have some people that I think

1381
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:41,679
your listeners might know of like they know of me.

1382
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,119
That's great, but they might know of Layton Flowers, they

1383
01:05:44,199 --> 01:05:46,039
might know of Tim Stratton, who does a lot of

1384
01:05:46,119 --> 01:05:50,119
work on philosophy and free will. And then we have

1385
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:54,480
Steve greg Is, a radio host across the nation. We

1386
01:05:54,599 --> 01:05:58,840
have Calvinist and non Calvinist professors. You're really not going

1387
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:00,920
to be in an echo chamber in that respect, and

1388
01:06:01,039 --> 01:06:04,360
so I guess that's my elevator pitch for what we're doing.

1389
01:06:04,679 --> 01:06:08,599
My YouTube channel is YouTube dot com slash Braxton Hunter.

1390
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:11,440
As Frank Turrik used to say, that's how humble I

1391
01:06:11,559 --> 01:06:14,119
am that I named the website, but also the website

1392
01:06:14,199 --> 01:06:15,039
is Braxton.

1393
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:15,400
Speaker 2: Hunter dot com.

1394
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:19,559
Speaker 4: But everything I do ends up going through YouTube, So

1395
01:06:19,679 --> 01:06:21,719
the YouTube channel is the best place to find me.

1396
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:24,599
But I'm on all the social media platforms under my

1397
01:06:24,719 --> 01:06:27,679
name Braxton Hunter. And then of course the website's Braxton

1398
01:06:27,719 --> 01:06:31,480
Hunter dot com. So Trinity SEM Trinity s e M

1399
01:06:32,159 --> 01:06:35,079
dot edu will get you there. And really, what what

1400
01:06:35,199 --> 01:06:37,280
I wish people would do is, even if you think

1401
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:39,719
you might be interested in this ten years from now,

1402
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:42,119
still go ahead and fill out the request for more

1403
01:06:42,159 --> 01:06:44,280
information on the right hand side of the screen when

1404
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:47,079
you go to Trinity SIM dot edu, and it'll be

1405
01:06:47,159 --> 01:06:50,239
there and you can do this online in your pajamas

1406
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:53,880
at home. It's I think it's set up for the

1407
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:54,920
world we live in today.

1408
01:06:55,199 --> 01:06:56,400
Speaker 2: Excellent. Thank you for coming on.

1409
01:06:56,639 --> 01:06:59,440
Speaker 3: And you know, sometimes when you look up to somebody

1410
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:01,679
and you get to meet them, it can be you know,

1411
01:07:01,719 --> 01:07:04,039
a bit of a disappointment, and this has been, this

1412
01:07:04,119 --> 01:07:05,599
has surpassed my expectations.

1413
01:07:05,639 --> 01:07:08,400
Speaker 2: And just thanks for everything you do. Man, I appreciate that.

1414
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:09,800
That really means a lot.

1415
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:11,760
Speaker 4: And to tell you the truth, I kind of needed

1416
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:14,199
that encouragement on this very day, so that that matters

1417
01:07:14,239 --> 01:07:14,800
a lot to me.

1418
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:15,960
Speaker 2: Thank you for that.

1419
01:07:16,159 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 4: And now I've fulfilled one of my lifelong goals of

1420
01:07:20,119 --> 01:07:23,159
appearing on the Apologetics three fifteen podcast.

1421
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:27,039
Speaker 1: Well that's that's going to be our last episode now

1422
01:07:27,119 --> 01:07:31,199
that we've finally made it through Chad's list. Brex and

1423
01:07:31,239 --> 01:07:33,360
thank you so much. It's been wonderful chatting with you.

1424
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:36,039
I love everything that you're doing.

1425
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:37,639
Speaker 2: And oh, thank you so much.

1426
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 1: Thanks guys, thanks for the chance, Thanks for listening to

1427
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:43,840
the podcast. If you have a question you'd like us

1428
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:46,440
to address, or just a message for us feedback, good

1429
01:07:46,519 --> 01:07:49,360
or bad, you can either email us at podcast at

1430
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:53,079
Apologetics three fifteen dot com, or leave a voice message

1431
01:07:53,079 --> 01:07:57,159
for us using speak Pipe. Just go to speakpipe dot com,

1432
01:07:57,320 --> 01:08:01,320
slash Apologetics three fifteen to leave us a mess, and remember,

1433
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:04,000
if you include a ghostbuster's quote in your question, we

1434
01:08:04,119 --> 01:08:06,840
guarantee that we'll read it on the podcast. We also

1435
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:10,480
ensure up to fifty percent better quality answers. Also, if

1436
01:08:10,519 --> 01:08:13,719
you've enjoyed today's podcast, please leave a review in iTunes

1437
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:16,800
or the podcast platform in your choice, and please share

1438
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:17,840
this episode.

1439
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:18,840
Speaker 2: With a friend if you've found it useful.

1440
01:08:19,399 --> 01:08:22,640
Speaker 1: Remember you can find lots of Apologetics resources at apologeticspree

1441
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:25,960
fifteen dot com, along with show notes for today's episode.

1442
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:30,840
Find Chad's apologetic stuff over at truthbomb apologetics. That's truthbomb

1443
01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:34,119
dot blogspot dot com. This has been Brian Auten and

1444
01:08:34,239 --> 01:08:37,319
Chad Gross for the Apologetics three fifteen podcast, and thanks

1445
01:08:37,359 --> 01:08:37,880
for listening.