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Speaker 1: We're all owned by the Syndicate, Body and Soul, or

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should I just say buddy, Hello?

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Speaker 2: Filthy movie Lovers, Something Weirdos and anti Criterion brose to

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the twentieth episode of The sind Syndicate, the only podcast

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that salutes the flag of Peggy Church and knows exactly

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what to do at night to make it stop hurting.

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My name is Gentry Austen, writer and researcher, and I'm

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here with my co host, adult film historian Casey Scott,

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and this week for the Big two O Pod, we

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have with us a very special guest, the Bob Chin

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expert Patrick Crane is going to join us for a

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look at an unheralded masterpiece of early seventies softcorese exploitation,

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director Mark Haggard's frank and messy look at the corruption

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of one suburban California family by one very adventurous babysitter.

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I'm talking nineteen seventy threes, adorably perverse. The all American girl.

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Speaker 3: Me me, Debbie, the All American girl. Imagine that dear Diary.

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School's out now, Johnny Goodman, that young creep across the hall.

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There's absolutely nothing to liven up things around this building.

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All he ever wants to do is stay inside and

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read his books. If only he knew what he was missing.

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But don't get me wrong, Diary, After all, I am

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only sixteen and a good girl. Really. I promised Mom

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a long time ago I would never go all the

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way with the man until I'm married, and I intend

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to keep that promise. But in the meanwhile, there's nothing

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wrong with having a little, clean cut, all American fun like.

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Speaker 4: All the other girls my age, just innocent little things

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like getting all dressed up in a low cut dress

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or going out to dinner with a handsome older man.

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I can just imagine how it would be sitting across

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the table from him in a private hotel suite dinner

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for two, and me acting so mature and so sophisticated,

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showing off my best table manners.

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Speaker 5: It would be so much fun.

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Speaker 2: So I have wanted to talk about this film pretty

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much as soon as I finished watching it for the

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first time a few months ago, I think it was,

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and so we have wanted to get Patrick on here

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to talk about it, because Patrick is the Bob Grain guy,

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as Casey likes to say. So Patrick tell us a

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little bit about yourself and your connection with Bob who

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executive produced this film.

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Speaker 6: Right, So, yeah, I got into this, this this avenue

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of writing about sexploitation in hardcore films. I had done

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some some work writing about Robert Altman and some Russ Meyer,

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and I gradually moved over to writing about hardcore and

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Bob Chen was a name that I sort of knew,

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and I began writing about his movies. And then I

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had begun writing about filmmakers and and and sort of

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kind of doing complete reviews of their of their work.

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And then i'd done stuff on Robert Altman and Russ Meyer.

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To run Cult Movies magazine with Buddy Barnett and Mike

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Copner kind of had this idea to take it online,

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and at the time I was not I did not

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have a day job, and I thought, well, yeah, this

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might be something fun to do. And in doing that,

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I was sort of getting material ready to put into

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the magazine. And I realized that Bob Chen had written

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for Cult Movies for a little bit and had a

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connection to Mike Copner, and I reached out to Bob

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to ask him if he'd like to do an interview

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that I could put into a future issue. And during this,

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during my question era in my questionnaire, and I'd said, Hey,

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I'd really like to just do a full top to

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bottom on your filmography like I had with you know,

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again Robert Altman and Russ Meyer, and I was doing

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with like Michael Mann and p. T. Anderson, and I

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had future plans for others. And I was just inquiring

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what movies of yours, you know, are lost or just

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not findable, you know. And he came back and was

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very very happy to help me and encourage me in

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doing that, and gave me all kinds of leads and

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allowed my wife and I to come and stay with

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him and his wife and really sort of dive into

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his filmography. I got, you know, basically everything there is

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that can be found.

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Speaker 2: What year was this, Patrick?

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Speaker 6: Did you say this was a couple of years ago?

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This was in two thousand and twenty three? Is when

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I started this. I had written and I and he

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was He and I were Facebook friends because you know,

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Bob's name is very very important to me in that

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Hot Saucy Pizza Girls was the first hardcore film I

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ever watched front to back and really sort of was like, well,

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this this is kind of a fun little comedy. This

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is really you know, this was not what I had

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expected from hardcore, you know, when what you thought of

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as hardcore films and so so. And that was back

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when I was like thirteen. I found a cousin of

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mine had it on a tape, and I absconded from

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their house with that tape. I got busted with that movie.

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That was one of the first, you know, so I

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got busted having that movie in my person or on

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my person. And then when I was in high school,

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The Wonderland Murders, I read that great expose and Rolling

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Stone that Mike Sega wrote The devilin John Holmes, which

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just really kind of fascinated me, and Bob Chen is

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sort of you know, intermixed in that. And then when

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Boogie Knights came out, the Criterion collection, Boogie Knights had

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an extra which was mostly all of the interview stuff

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from Exhausted, and in that you got to see the

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Bob Chen interactions with John Holmes. And so, you know,

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Bob was a name that I sort of just knew

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and gravitated towards. And so the whole thing about me

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reaching out to him to interview him was I I

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also wanted to ask him a lot about Carlos to Tobolina,

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who I was. That's who I'd sort of planned to

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do a full top to bottom on. Bob said he

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would help me, you know, do a full run on

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his movies, and I wasn't going to turn that down

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because I knew there was there was much more there

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there than there was with Carlos Tobolina. And initially it

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was just going to be the movies he shot on film,

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but then it became everything, so oh boy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And with both of those guys, I feel like

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their filmographies that you can find, you know, online is

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far far from complete, would you agree.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Well, Carlos Tobolina because he owned everything that he

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shot mostly after a certain point and with his own

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equipment and kept almost everything. That's why I think Benniker

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Sindrom was able to get so many of them in

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such right condition because he owned them all. He has

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about a dozen that you can't find that are sort

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of lost. They're all mostly all softcore films. He's got

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maybe a handful of arccore films. They're findable, they're not

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in great condition. Bob's a whole other story Bob's got

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Like Bob, I think there were fourteen movies that Bob

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could recount that I couldn't that are just not out there.

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Most of them are pre Johnny Watt. They're nineteen seventy

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to seventy one, so you know, I mean, it would

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be nice to have them, but there are enough representative

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examples to know kind of what you're missing, but you know,

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you want them as complete as possible. The other problem

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with Bob Bob's movies is that the stuff that he

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did in two thousand to two thousand and three through

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New Era, those were very limited runs as were like

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they were only pressed one thousand copies of each, so

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on secondary markets they're very expensive if you can even

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find them. There's not a lot of not any rips

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out there that I could find. When I was doing this,

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I had to borrow Bob's copies of those movies to

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see them. So Bob it is. Bob is not one

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where Yeah, a lot of like I would say, about

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seventy five or seventy percent of his stuff is out

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there probably something like that. A lot of it still

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needs to be I mean, if it could be upgraded, for.

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Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, what's Bob doing right now.

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Speaker 6: Just kicking back and living life, watching movies and and

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I think he still works on his Johnny Watt books.

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He wrote The Flesh of the Lotus one that actually

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was published in twenty eleven, and he was currently working

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on Blonde and Black Lace and adaptation of that. I

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actually got to read the first I don't know, five

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to seven chapters of that, and it was it's really good.

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But still he's still working on it. It's not at

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all like the movie. If you're familiar with Blonde in Blacklace,

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it goes to Albuquerque, New Mexico. It's a whole different

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kind of adventure. But he had planned or he was

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planning on doing not just those two, but he was

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also going to do the Tropic of Passion adaptation and

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then the White Gold adaptation. All the John Holmes movies

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he was planning to basically adapt into a novel form

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because he's got an open publishing deal pretty much with

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Settlement and Company, because they're planning on publishing his next

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Johnny Watt books, and they are the ones that are

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actually where I've been talking to Marco recently and we're

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back on with the trop my book on the Bobchen movie,

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so that's in the world hopefully.

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Speaker 2: Well, that would be interesting if they ever upgrade. I

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know they've been they've been upgrading some of bop stuff,

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but you know, as they upgrade, they could tie in,

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like if he has a completed novelization and somehow work

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that into the release. That'd be fun. Watch it and

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read it, and I'm going to make.

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Speaker 5: You happy so you won't forget your now being back

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every black up just do what I say.

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Speaker 2: But let's talk about All American girl because someone want

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to you maybe set the stage like sexploitation California, like

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what's going on here? Because this movie is I think

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if you watch it, you'll what immediately jumps out is

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that this is very explicit without being hardcore, and it

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seems like it's an intentional decision mm hmm by either

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absolutely every decision.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, everybody and everybody involved was not going to do

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hardcore correct, Mark was not, Mark Haggard, Roland Miller and option,

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We're not going to do hardcore on this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I know Manny Condy is also involved

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in distributeing this, but he came.

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Speaker 7: We also never did hardcore, yeh. Mart Manuel Kandy never

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did hardcore either, So basically all the major players were fighting.

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I mean, this is not pre hardcore, this is parallel hardcore.

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Hardcore was happening. Like Bob Johnny Wad was established as

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a character, like Bob Jenna has been doing hardcore. Hot

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Circuit had come out, the Mitchell Brothers had been putting

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stuffing out, stuff out, Deep Throat had come out, Like yeah,

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this is definitely we're in the thick of hardcore at

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the beginning. But I think what this movie is really

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what does what it really does successfully is what Dave

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Friedman always says, Well, he didn't like hardcore, was he

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liked the tees Yes, And this movie is so good

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at tease that you think you're seeing more than you

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actually are. And actually, I mean it's kind of like

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text change on Mascar, where you think that movie is

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much more violent than it is. This movie is graphic,

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but it's not. It comes this close to crossing the line,

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but it never does. And it's still I think the

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most ironic softcore film of the nineteen seventies. I think

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it outdoes Sarno.

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Speaker 2: I think, yeah, we'll talk about that a little later. Yeah, So,

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how did Bob get involved in this project, Like, whose

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brainchild was?

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Speaker 8: This?

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Speaker 2: Was it Mars? Was it Bob's Mark?

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Speaker 6: This was you know, this was Marx, but Bob was

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As Casey said, they had stepped away from hardcore because

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by nineteen the end of seventy one, it was really

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really hard to shoot hardcore and not draw a bust,

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and so Bob had decided to consciously decided to take

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a step back and produce softcore films. And so this

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was a company that he had with Roland Miller, and

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they made they made three movies together. This was the

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second one. The first one they did was The Love

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Garden and that was also Mark Haggard and it had

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much of the same crew. Duck Nap shot that one

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as he shot this and then this one, and then

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Brother and Sister was the third one. And I think

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Brother and.

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Speaker 7: Sister was a different company though, wasn't it. Well, these

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Markland Productions, So is Mark and Roland Ryan Garden was

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Markland too?

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Speaker 6: No, yeah, because Roland Miller is the one that actually

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directed Brother and Sister.

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Speaker 7: I'm sorry, right, yeah, because that was Pantheon Productions. Yeah,

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that was the first Pantheon Productions one, right, But that

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was another one where they only did like three movies too, right,

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Like these companies didn't last long, right.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Bob ran through a bunch of they went through

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a bunch of different companies that just never really Yeah, yeah,

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I did much more than three.

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Speaker 2: So set the stage again for me. I understand Bob

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had been shooting up in San Francisco hardcore? Is that

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right around this time? No? Always always Los Angeles?

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Speaker 6: Okay, he didn't shoot in San Francisco till seventy four.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right, thank you for the time and clarification there.

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So he's now. Yeah, as you can see, this opens

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on an LA High School, right, Fairfax High School. Yeah,

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and we see our all American girl right away, Peggy Church.

248
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I mean, Peggy Church is amazing in this, but she

249
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is in very little else. I mean she's she's side

250
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characters and other things. I wonder do we know, like

251
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how she got involved in this? I wonder whose call

252
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it was to give her such a starring role here.

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Speaker 7: That's a good question, I think, Uh, well, at that point,

254
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I mean, she had done Pickieper's Daughter, She's been in

255
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the Big Snatch with which also has Tracy Hanfoos, who

256
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is in this as well.

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Speaker 2: I think I wonder if there was a recommendation from

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her from Tracy Maybe, I don't know.

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Speaker 7: I think, I know, I mean, I think I think

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it really boils down to casting. I think al Gathu

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how Gathu handled Barbara Mills and Linda Yorke, who were

262
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in Love Garden's host But they just went back to

263
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the well to Halkuthu and said, Okay, give me two women.

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And Peggy Church was like the right person.

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Speaker 6: For the job.

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Speaker 2: Closer to sixteen for sure.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, right, Which is interesting because in her other I mean,

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she's older than she was in her earlier movies, yet

269
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she doesn't look like she's She looks younger in this

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than she does in like The Big Snatch, I think.

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But yeah, she was very young when she started. She

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was like, I think she was maybe seventeen when she

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was in Big Snatch, I believe. I think I think

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she started when she was not of age, but she

275
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wasn't doing it. She never had a hardcore so it's

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kind of.

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Speaker 2: You know, yeah, well, I want to back up just

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a sec to talk about Manny Condy again.

279
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Speaker 6: Back to the.

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Speaker 2: Production is you know, after this was produced, he picked

281
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it up Is that how I understand it.

282
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Speaker 6: Yeah, this was initially supposed to go to Continental Films

283
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Mary Lindsey, but Manny Condy apparently just beg Bob for

284
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a because he needed a pussy Cat theater booking and

285
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Bob had sort of a carte blanche with any Bob

286
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associated movie would get a puky pussy Cat booking. And

287
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many Condy had worked with Bob and he felt, you know,

288
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Bob's really, you know, so gracious and he so that's

289
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how many Kandy ended up with it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and getting pussy Cat was kind of a big deal, right.

291
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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, yeah, that was that was a big, huge deal.

292
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It was like the biggest deal you could get. I guess.

293
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Speaker 7: Yeah, there's a national chain, so you would get nationwide

294
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you know bookings.

295
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Speaker 2: I remember we had talked about I can't remember which episode,

296
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you know how some of these lost films. Part of

297
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the reason that the ones that do survive is because

298
00:17:46,759 --> 00:17:48,759
a lot of them played in Pussycats. So that was

299
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:50,839
kind of like a connective tissue between the ones that

300
00:17:51,079 --> 00:17:55,079
are surviving and that we can see. So this might

301
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,119
have I don't know what the history of this one

302
00:17:57,319 --> 00:17:59,720
was as far as print, because what we have now

303
00:17:59,839 --> 00:18:01,519
is this is Kandy.

304
00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,880
Speaker 7: It's a Kandy connection that the negative exists. It's not

305
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,920
a print, like the negative exists for this, just like

306
00:18:09,039 --> 00:18:11,519
it also exists for All American Women. And Deep Jaws

307
00:18:11,599 --> 00:18:14,240
and The Dictator, those are the films, I think, the

308
00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,440
only Kandi films where the negatives exist. So those are

309
00:18:17,519 --> 00:18:20,400
ones that I think he obviously cared about more in

310
00:18:20,519 --> 00:18:23,240
terms of distribution. Deep Jaws and Dictator are a little

311
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more personal for him, I think, But the other two, yeah,

312
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,680
he held on to those negatives. Everything else like this

313
00:18:28,839 --> 00:18:34,200
Spence cries Old Dan Spencer movies, Calendar, pin Up Girls,

314
00:18:34,279 --> 00:18:38,000
Love Games, even Danish Connection, those are all only available

315
00:18:38,079 --> 00:18:40,759
on prints because the negatives are gone. So I think

316
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,200
it's It kind of reminds me of like the case

317
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,839
of like Roberta or even Alex Derenzi, where there are

318
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,799
certain movies where they kept in negative form because there

319
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,440
was a personal connection to them and they were like,

320
00:18:51,519 --> 00:18:53,759
these are the ones I'm proud of. But then other

321
00:18:53,839 --> 00:18:56,400
stuff there's just nothing left or there's only a print.

322
00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,759
So All American Girl was obviously obviously Kandi took it

323
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,240
very seriously because it was his first pussy Cat booking,

324
00:19:03,559 --> 00:19:05,400
and I'm sure it got booked in a lot of

325
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,599
other places because it wasn't hardcore, so you could get

326
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,920
it on a screen that wasn't allowed to show hardcore.

327
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So it makes sense that the negative still exists. And

328
00:19:14,559 --> 00:19:16,839
that's why I'm just like, let's get the restoration. We

329
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,160
have a negative, Like, let's let's go. What's the hold up?

330
00:19:21,079 --> 00:19:24,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, do we have any evidence about how well it did?

331
00:19:25,319 --> 00:19:28,480
Speaker 6: I do not. No, I thought Bob. I thought Bob

332
00:19:28,559 --> 00:19:30,880
said it was a big hit. I mean that's that's

333
00:19:31,039 --> 00:19:32,039
just what Bob said.

334
00:19:33,519 --> 00:19:37,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that is interesting. Yeah, we've we've talked about

335
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,039
this offline a bit about how badly we want this restored.

336
00:19:41,319 --> 00:19:44,960
So yeah, the elements are there. Yeah, because it's not

337
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,039
easy to find right now if you want to watch

338
00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,160
it unless you have what was it released on Casey the.

339
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Speaker 7: Old Something Weird? It was on VHS and tvgr and

340
00:19:54,599 --> 00:19:56,559
that's it only Something weirded it.

341
00:19:56,759 --> 00:19:56,920
Speaker 5: Yeah.

342
00:19:57,079 --> 00:20:01,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it never got like those image really through something.

343
00:20:01,279 --> 00:20:04,039
Speaker 7: No, which is strange because Deep Jaws and The Dictator

344
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,480
did and that was the big Manny Condy double feature

345
00:20:07,519 --> 00:20:09,480
and then a teaser I think was Manny Conedy and

346
00:20:09,559 --> 00:20:12,079
that came Out with Frankie. Johnny Wlover's teaser was I

347
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think I think that might have been a print as well,

348
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:16,839
but it's yeah, it's strange. I don't know why those

349
00:20:16,839 --> 00:20:19,240
two didn't come out. It's possible that image said no

350
00:20:19,559 --> 00:20:23,960
if they thought it was maybe. I mean they said

351
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,119
no to the Big Snaps because the title. If they

352
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:27,839
saw the movie, they would know it's not It's not

353
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,319
that big a deal. But yeah, Well, they also said

354
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,319
no to like Love Camp seven and Sinful Dwarf. So

355
00:20:33,799 --> 00:20:35,599
in terms of all American girls, they might have been like,

356
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:37,920
this is a little too much or.

357
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but did they even watch Yeah, if they

358
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,000
watched it, yeah, they might have said no. But I mean,

359
00:20:44,079 --> 00:20:45,960
look at the title they went.

360
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Speaker 7: Putting girl and woman out together would have made total sense,

361
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and I don't know if that was ever planned. Yeah,

362
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,200
I mean it makes sense. They're two very different movies.

363
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:56,799
We'll talk about the sequel because I watched it this

364
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,200
morning and I'm actually quite enamored of it.

365
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,319
Speaker 2: But have you seen the sequel, Patrick.

366
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Speaker 6: I've not. I read about it but never did. I

367
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,559
never did follow up to see it. But I would

368
00:21:08,559 --> 00:21:12,119
be interested too, because you know, I do love love Love.

369
00:21:12,559 --> 00:21:15,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the more I hear very different, Yeah, the

370
00:21:16,079 --> 00:21:21,079
more I want to see this because Marcus, I mean,

371
00:21:21,599 --> 00:21:24,039
this is kind of the never ending story of sexploitation.

372
00:21:24,319 --> 00:21:26,920
Like there's a lot of characters, and it sounds like

373
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he's a character, so Casey.

374
00:21:29,559 --> 00:21:33,920
Speaker 7: Well, well it's also I mean he's also now that

375
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,880
I've seen his other movie, he's four for four, Like

376
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,720
all four of his movies are great, like you know,

377
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,640
so he really is kind of in the pantheon of

378
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,759
directors for me now now that I've seen everything. And yeah,

379
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,160
I mean the only time I think he was ever

380
00:21:49,319 --> 00:21:51,680
interviewed was for the First Newdy Musical DVD when that

381
00:21:51,759 --> 00:21:54,119
came out through Image and they did a documentary and

382
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,039
Bruce Kimmel you know, got in touch with them and

383
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,440
got him interviewed. That was a very interesting guy like

384
00:21:59,599 --> 00:22:02,759
he It's interesting because he has a similar path as

385
00:22:02,839 --> 00:22:06,160
like Bogdanovitch, where Bogdanovitch was very close to John Ford

386
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,200
and so was Mark Haggard. Like Mark Haggard made the

387
00:22:08,279 --> 00:22:12,839
short film called john Ford Memorial Day nineteen seventy which

388
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,559
actually Bob I asked Bob about where Mark Haggard was.

389
00:22:16,599 --> 00:22:17,759
He said, the last time I spoke to him was

390
00:22:17,799 --> 00:22:20,279
in nineteen ninety one when I got some footage for

391
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,599
Adobe Angels from him. So yeah, he's like a big

392
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,759
repository for john Ford' stuff.

393
00:22:27,039 --> 00:22:29,359
Speaker 6: That makes sense. And you see that in the opening

394
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:34,119
of The Love Garden where Jason what's his name, Jason,

395
00:22:34,599 --> 00:22:39,160
Jason Yukon Jason, he's reading a is it a life

396
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,480
magazine with john Ford on it? It's a john Ford. Yeah,

397
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,359
there's a john fordy on at there, which you know

398
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,720
I always thought also was that's because Bob's such a

399
00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:50,240
john Ford nut too.

400
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,039
Speaker 7: Right, I'm sure there was connective tssue for the two

401
00:22:53,079 --> 00:22:55,599
of them. I mean it's interesting because, you know, revisiting

402
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,000
Bob's book, which I've raved about on here many times,

403
00:23:00,039 --> 00:23:03,359
he really goes into really good detail about how when

404
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,359
Mark got started, he was he came to him with

405
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,440
a script and then he said, well I want to

406
00:23:08,519 --> 00:23:10,880
direct the script, and so first time director, you know,

407
00:23:11,039 --> 00:23:15,480
growing pains. But then on the second film he definitely improved.

408
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,880
I think the big issue that he discusses was the

409
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,480
fact that he took a lot of time in the

410
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,519
editing room. But when you watch both films and he

411
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,799
edited all American Woman Too. All three of those movies,

412
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:27,920
the fact that he wrote them in edited, and there's

413
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,359
something about a writer editing the film that so he

414
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,200
basically is providing the narrative and then creating the cinematic

415
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,720
narrative and that pacing and everything. So I'm glad he

416
00:23:39,759 --> 00:23:42,160
took time. I mean, it's it's obviously time is money,

417
00:23:42,599 --> 00:23:45,519
but I think it it worked out in the end

418
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,799
because the editing is so good. Oh yeah, in this movie.

419
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:49,599
Speaker 6: Definitely.

420
00:23:50,079 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 2: When they say like he took a long time, I

421
00:23:52,319 --> 00:23:55,920
wonder if that's you know, what's that relatively inse exploitation?

422
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:57,559
What's too long a time?

423
00:23:58,119 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 7: I think more than two weeks is too long, yeah,

424
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,519
more than peeks, right, more than two weeks is too long.

425
00:24:02,759 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 9: Yeah.

426
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,799
Speaker 7: And I think he had that problem on both movies.

427
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:10,160
I think Lovegarden and All American Girl he had editing problems.

428
00:24:11,519 --> 00:24:13,799
And I actually I think that's how Mandy Condy knew

429
00:24:13,799 --> 00:24:15,519
that this was going to be good, because I believe

430
00:24:15,559 --> 00:24:19,039
the editing was done at Mandy Condy's film center, where

431
00:24:19,079 --> 00:24:21,079
he had editing suitets and things. So I'm sure he

432
00:24:21,279 --> 00:24:23,759
was seeing like this footage like he was seeing Peggy

433
00:24:23,839 --> 00:24:27,480
Church's masturbation scene. He was seeing, you know, the scene

434
00:24:27,519 --> 00:24:30,559
with the boyfriend. He was seeing the massage scene and like, oh,

435
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,480
this is going to be really good. I think I

436
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,119
need to try to make my mark and try to

437
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:37,640
get this movie and distribute it myself.

438
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 5: He saw my breath.

439
00:24:42,279 --> 00:24:43,079
Speaker 10: Do you like them?

440
00:24:45,599 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 5: Do you know what a woman's breast over?

441
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 3: Johnny?

442
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 5: They provide the milk for the newborn baby. This is

443
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,720
the nippoo and the note comes out of here. Would

444
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:56,519
you like to touch it?

445
00:24:58,240 --> 00:24:58,559
Speaker 10: Come on?

446
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 2: Well before where we Yeah? I keep coming back to

447
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,759
Manny Conny because I keep hearing that. You know, everybody

448
00:25:04,799 --> 00:25:07,240
calls him like an odd character and he's kind of

449
00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:10,160
a weird guy. Like what's you know? Give a quick

450
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:11,640
Manny Condy clips.

451
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:16,079
Speaker 7: Well, I knew Bruce Kimmel said that. I mean, I

452
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,799
know Bruce Kimmel said that to me because so Brice

453
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,200
Kimmel I emailed him. I think I know maybe he

454
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,079
mailed me because I reviewed First Neody Musical when it

455
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,720
came out on DVD and on DVD drive, and so

456
00:25:29,839 --> 00:25:31,559
Brice Kimmell messages me and I wanted to know about

457
00:25:31,559 --> 00:25:33,799
Mark Haaggar because he did the music for all American Women,

458
00:25:34,039 --> 00:25:36,680
and that was kind of how Mark Haggard got involved

459
00:25:36,799 --> 00:25:40,759
with First Any Musical. And uh, he remembered seeing Love

460
00:25:40,799 --> 00:25:43,799
Garden at it at the and the theaters, and then

461
00:25:43,839 --> 00:25:47,039
he saw All American Girl in theaters because he was

462
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,200
friends with Alan Alan Burton is the name he used

463
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,240
in the movie, but his real name was Alan Abalou

464
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,400
and he's in First Nudy Musical, so he wanted to

465
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,680
go see All American Girl in the theaters too, So

466
00:25:57,799 --> 00:26:01,640
he was very familiar with Mark's work. And yeah, they're

467
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,960
credited as co directors on that. But I'm trying to

468
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,359
let me see. Let me go to the email that

469
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,559
he sent me, so he said, I only met man

470
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,079
on an All American Woman. He said, I only met Manny,

471
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:14,799
not anyone else in the film. So I don't know

472
00:26:14,799 --> 00:26:16,519
if M. D. Morey really exists.

473
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:17,039
Speaker 6: So M. D.

474
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,039
Speaker 7: Moury is Maria Condy. Maria D. Moriy was her maiden name,

475
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:25,279
and then she became Maria Condy. Manny really liked me

476
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,680
for some reason and was always talking about doing Nudie

477
00:26:27,759 --> 00:26:29,920
Musical himself, but I knew I didn't want to go

478
00:26:30,039 --> 00:26:32,640
that route. And the joke is on him because he

479
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,279
went that route without him. He did Deep Jaws, which

480
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,599
is just a soft core sex version of Firstnudie Musical,

481
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,160
which came out the same year. So Manny didn't need

482
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,039
permission and he was just going to do his own version.

483
00:26:45,279 --> 00:26:47,839
He said, Uh, Marcus in Arizona and has been for

484
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,400
about twenty years now. He's become very reclusive for reasons

485
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,480
I don't really understand. I don't know if they ever

486
00:26:53,559 --> 00:26:55,640
got back in touch, because this was in two thousand

487
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,920
and eight, was the when I talked to Kimmel. But

488
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:03,000
I had my own little almost encounter with Mark in

489
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,640
twenty fourteen. So I did a series in Anthology called

490
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,920
In the Flesh, which was thirty five millionary screenings of

491
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,359
adult films, and we had people come out. We had

492
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,559
Dick Aldrich show up for titillation, one of Bob's, you know,

493
00:27:15,039 --> 00:27:18,880
very frequent collaborators. And after a certain series, we got

494
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,160
pressed in things like, you know, the New York Times

495
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,519
and Wall Street Journal and things like that. So I

496
00:27:23,599 --> 00:27:26,039
believe Mark Haggard heard about it, and so he reached

497
00:27:26,039 --> 00:27:28,920
out to Anthology, the head program of how he worked with,

498
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,559
and he emailed me in twenty fourteen. I completely forgot this,

499
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:34,440
and he said, I wanted to let you know that

500
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,599
we received a couple of calls now from Mark Haggard.

501
00:27:37,559 --> 00:27:39,480
He wanted to recommend that we show his films in

502
00:27:39,519 --> 00:27:42,119
one of the next installments. He kept me on the

503
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,519
phone reading me quote from Andrew Serris's review of his

504
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,720
work reviews of his work. I'm sure you know his films.

505
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,559
Here's his number and the off chance I might want

506
00:27:49,559 --> 00:27:52,559
to talk to him, So me, I just gave that

507
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,279
number two Vinegar Syndrome, because I said, you guys need

508
00:27:55,319 --> 00:27:57,359
to get him for commentaries for these movies because you

509
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,200
have the negatives and you have the rights because they

510
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,720
bought them from Condy Junior and Maria. I never called him,

511
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,720
which was a huge club on my part. So I

512
00:28:08,839 --> 00:28:10,480
do still have his number, and I think I should

513
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:11,359
call him at some point.

514
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:11,799
Speaker 9: Yeah, but.

515
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 7: This was around twenty fourteen, so he was still actively

516
00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:20,119
talking about these films and trying to promote these films

517
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,359
and get more people aware of his work. So we're

518
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,440
talking ten years ago, and in that ten years, we

519
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,960
still we've only seen Love Garden get restored for DVD only,

520
00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:34,160
and that's out of print, so we're kind of overdue

521
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:35,920
for like a Mark Haggard, right.

522
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, that he was still like passionate about his movies,

523
00:28:41,559 --> 00:28:43,720
you know, in twenty fourteen, he was still kind of

524
00:28:43,759 --> 00:28:45,799
pushing to get him out there. So yeah, that's right,

525
00:28:46,119 --> 00:28:47,039
that's very interesting.

526
00:28:47,119 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 7: Well, when you see them, i mean, can you blame him,

527
00:28:50,039 --> 00:28:52,359
like they're they're head and shoulders above a lot of

528
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,599
stuff that like even more experienced filmmakers were making, you know,

529
00:28:55,759 --> 00:28:56,359
because I.

530
00:28:56,359 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 2: Mean there's a lot of sexploitation directors that don't have

531
00:28:59,839 --> 00:29:02,279
that passion for their work. No, they don't care, they

532
00:29:02,359 --> 00:29:05,599
don't care. But he clearly saw something special in him.

533
00:29:05,839 --> 00:29:08,039
And yeah, as you said, as you watch them, yeah,

534
00:29:08,079 --> 00:29:10,920
they do feel there. You can see the heart that

535
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,079
he put into it for sure.

536
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 7: Yeah. I think the scripts are what does it? Yeah,

537
00:29:16,039 --> 00:29:18,519
his scripts are really good. And then he later won

538
00:29:18,559 --> 00:29:21,240
an Avan Award for The Messeuse, which is one of

539
00:29:21,359 --> 00:29:25,079
the best Paul Thomas adult films. And that script is

540
00:29:25,119 --> 00:29:28,640
really interesting because for an adult film, it focuses on

541
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,640
two characters and they're the only typacial Lee and Randy Spears,

542
00:29:32,839 --> 00:29:34,359
and they're the only people that have sex in the

543
00:29:34,519 --> 00:29:37,640
entire movie. So, once again, off the bat, He's doing

544
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:42,319
something very different from what the genre expects, and that

545
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,000
was kind of his last writing credit. He won the award.

546
00:29:46,839 --> 00:29:49,400
Paul Thomas remade it in two thousand and four and

547
00:29:49,519 --> 00:29:51,519
he's credited as co writing it. But I don't know

548
00:29:51,599 --> 00:29:54,400
if that was just a credit because they used the

549
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,880
original screenplay and tweaked it, or if he actually came

550
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,359
back into the fold and co wrote it with this guy.

551
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:05,000
I would love to know more. But yeah, I think

552
00:30:05,079 --> 00:30:07,480
his scripts and his editing are what really make these

553
00:30:07,559 --> 00:30:09,160
films special in my opinion.

554
00:30:09,559 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 2: Well, do you know if Mark is alive?

555
00:30:11,839 --> 00:30:14,799
Speaker 7: You have his phone number, but I've confirmed he is

556
00:30:14,839 --> 00:30:21,039
still alive, so I I think I am calling yeah,

557
00:30:21,119 --> 00:30:23,759
because I'm like the fact that the only interview we

558
00:30:23,799 --> 00:30:26,839
have on him is in two thousand and four and

559
00:30:28,599 --> 00:30:31,400
twenty years ago. It's about First New Dy Musical because

560
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,079
as from what I can recall of that that documentary,

561
00:30:34,559 --> 00:30:38,799
it briefly touches on his background in exploitation, but I

562
00:30:38,839 --> 00:30:40,759
don't think it really goes into it doesn't go into

563
00:30:40,759 --> 00:30:43,920
any detail because it's not the subject. So I think

564
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,119
they talk about all American women because that's how Bruce

565
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,240
and Mark met. But yeah, I would love to reach

566
00:30:50,279 --> 00:30:51,799
out to him if he's if he's willing to talk,

567
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,240
I'd love to do just an interview with him for

568
00:30:54,359 --> 00:30:56,440
the POT about his entire career. I think that'd be

569
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:57,119
really interesting.

570
00:30:57,839 --> 00:30:59,799
Speaker 5: I wish we could go all the way next Saturday,

571
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,920
but I've promised myself we won't do that until we're married.

572
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,359
I won't even undress completely in front of a man

573
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:13,799
until then. Almost completely, but never completely. It's a strange coat,

574
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,920
I guess, but it's my code. God. I get so

575
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,279
excited just thinking about Saturday night. I can feel myself.

576
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,039
Speaker 3: Get hot all over.

577
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,119
Speaker 2: Oh Patrick, when was the first time he saw the

578
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,079
All American Girl? Like, what were your impressions of it?

579
00:31:30,519 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 6: I thought it was just I thought it was wonderful,

580
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,839
like you can again, like he says, with both the

581
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,319
Love Garden and the All American Girl, they are really

582
00:31:38,359 --> 00:31:39,119
something special.

583
00:31:39,759 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 9: Yeah.

584
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,039
Speaker 2: They do play well together too, Yeah.

585
00:31:42,319 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 6: They just they inhabit a place that it feels very real.

586
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,160
Although the All American Girl is a little camped up,

587
00:31:50,319 --> 00:31:56,640
which I love so much. It's it's Yeah, I thought

588
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:01,240
Peggy Church blew me away. I had never seen her before.

589
00:32:02,079 --> 00:32:04,519
I don't think i'd seen the Pickkeeper's daughter at that point,

590
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,480
so I was sort of unaware of her, and I

591
00:32:07,599 --> 00:32:11,759
mean I just I got good, like honest laughs through

592
00:32:11,799 --> 00:32:13,880
a lot of the dialogue, the way she delivers it.

593
00:32:14,319 --> 00:32:17,960
I was sort of blown away by just how intuitively

594
00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:23,359
great her performance was. And then again, the way it

595
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:28,880
was shot, the Douglas Nap photography was really really something special.

596
00:32:29,039 --> 00:32:30,880
Her masturbation scene of course at the end of it,

597
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,440
where she's just kind of bathed in this orange southern

598
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,279
California lens flair glow. I mean, I don't think you

599
00:32:38,359 --> 00:32:41,200
could get that again if you tried. That's such a

600
00:32:41,599 --> 00:32:45,359
unique kind of textured look. Everything about it. I love

601
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,920
that apartment complex they're in that looks like the same

602
00:32:48,039 --> 00:32:50,680
thing they shot the Toolbox murders in. It's one of

603
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,000
those la very a lot of stucco walls that you know,

604
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:59,359
it just everything about it is just so la southern California.

605
00:32:59,799 --> 00:33:02,519
But then again, like some of the nighttime stuff, the

606
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,559
darkened room stuff, the lighting is just everything about is

607
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,839
just exquisite. And then I was really really blown away

608
00:33:08,839 --> 00:33:10,400
and I reached out. I mean, I remember I reached

609
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,039
out to Bob and said, yeah, I just got done

610
00:33:12,119 --> 00:33:14,720
watching that, and I mean, y'all, that was truly such

611
00:33:14,759 --> 00:33:17,839
a great, great, great movie. And I think I asked him,

612
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,920
I was like, Peggy Church, whatever kind of happened to her?

613
00:33:20,119 --> 00:33:22,519
And yeah, he didn't really know much either about her,

614
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,720
I mean, just who kind of came and went? So

615
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,599
but yeah, I mean I loved it and I and

616
00:33:28,839 --> 00:33:33,079
I'm just it's sad that the only thing that's available

617
00:33:33,839 --> 00:33:37,720
at something weird VHS. I don't know if y'all the

618
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,680
sound on yours sounds like it does. Mine sounds like

619
00:33:41,799 --> 00:33:44,440
it's coming through a blown speaker.

620
00:33:44,599 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 7: It's got a oh mine is not that I have

621
00:33:47,839 --> 00:33:49,559
the DVD R. So I'm wondering if you have like

622
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:50,680
a bad ripe.

623
00:33:51,119 --> 00:33:52,839
Speaker 6: I think I have a bad rip but yeah, I

624
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,519
have a you know, like some of the dialogue has

625
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,359
some some hiss in it, some very bad hiss. I

626
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,319
guess that's the best way I can explain it. But yeah,

627
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,680
my my copy, ain't it great? Yeah?

628
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 2: I watched the same version you did, Patrick.

629
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,079
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, because I remember Gentry message speen. He was like,

630
00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:13,159
is there a better version out there? And then he

631
00:34:13,199 --> 00:34:15,119
sent me the screencrap. So I was like, that's from

632
00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:19,119
the negative. That's I guess the version you had is

633
00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:21,679
just a really bad transfer, not maybe it's like a

634
00:34:22,119 --> 00:34:24,880
maybe it's a copy of a maybe it's a copy

635
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,519
of a copy, yeah or something, because when I revisited

636
00:34:27,599 --> 00:34:31,679
today on the DVDR, I mean, it's not crystal clear.

637
00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:34,360
But you know, for the time when it was transferred

638
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,760
in like the late nineties early two thousands, it looks

639
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,159
it looks good. Did Bob remember if this was shot

640
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,079
on sixteen millimeter that might also it doesn't look great.

641
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:48,039
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, it is, it's sixteen Yeah.

642
00:34:48,079 --> 00:34:50,559
Speaker 7: Okay, then that's probably another reason why it doesn't look

643
00:34:50,599 --> 00:34:52,559
great because they were dealing with a thirty five meters

644
00:34:52,599 --> 00:34:54,760
blow up negative. So if we were dealing with like

645
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,840
sixteen millimeter original negative, then it would look way better.

646
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,679
But that would probably explain some of the like weird

647
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,800
color saturations in that too. Well. Actually, it's not too

648
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,639
bad that it looks that. You can still appreciate the photography, which.

649
00:35:10,519 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 2: Is yeah, you can, you can but it, but it

650
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,519
as watching it, you're just like, oh my god, how

651
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,079
much better could this look restored? It would be like

652
00:35:20,159 --> 00:35:25,360
a revelation. But Patrick, yeah, you mentioned some of the photography,

653
00:35:25,519 --> 00:35:28,519
and some of those like bedroom scenes, and then at

654
00:35:28,519 --> 00:35:31,719
the very end of the movie there's that card that

655
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,920
is kind of a dedication to the Erotic Master Joe Sarno,

656
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,119
And it all kind of makes sense once you see that.

657
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:43,119
This is like Mark Haggard doing his Joe Sarno picture,

658
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,000
Like obviously he was a big fan. But it's funny

659
00:35:47,079 --> 00:35:50,559
to see that card at the end because who does that,

660
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:56,039
you know, like that's a really loving ode to someone

661
00:35:56,079 --> 00:35:58,559
who was still working at the time. It wasn't like

662
00:35:58,679 --> 00:36:00,360
he was looking back on someone.

663
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,320
Speaker 7: It's odd for It's odd for any film I going

664
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,880
to reference another filmmaker in this genre like that. You

665
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,559
wouldn't see someone ripping off. Yeah, you wouldn't see someone

666
00:36:09,599 --> 00:36:11,440
doing like a new d QT and saying dedicated to

667
00:36:11,519 --> 00:36:14,199
Russ Meyer or you know, things like that. You don't

668
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,159
see things like that. You know, it's not like a

669
00:36:16,199 --> 00:36:19,559
Sean Baker dedicating a Nora to Jess Franco and Soladev Midanda,

670
00:36:19,679 --> 00:36:23,079
like they didn't. They didn't do that then, so yeah,

671
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,639
you don't. You don't want to remind your audiences of

672
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,400
other filmmakers that are your competition, Like that's not common.

673
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,480
It's interesting that masturbation scene is essentially the Inga masturbation scene.

674
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,320
I mean, I think I think Inga is the big

675
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,880
inspiration here, not so much reduction of Ingo, which is

676
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,360
very different. But yeah, Inga is like the sexual coming

677
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,039
of age of this young teenager. So I think that's

678
00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:47,159
probably the big, big inspiration.

679
00:36:47,519 --> 00:36:51,280
Speaker 2: They are very different films though, in how the protolacularly

680
00:36:51,679 --> 00:36:53,039
goes about their journey.

681
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,639
Speaker 7: Well, Inga has no realistence of humor, thank god, because

682
00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:01,400
Sosno was not a good comic director or writer. Yeah,

683
00:37:01,519 --> 00:37:04,559
like no, this has a much more interesting sense of

684
00:37:04,639 --> 00:37:07,599
humor about it. There's a sort of a nuts nuts

685
00:37:07,639 --> 00:37:09,400
wink wink that Sarnoon didn't really ever have.

686
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny Patrick that you mentioned too that you know,

687
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,559
when you first saw it, you were laughing with it.

688
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,920
And I think that if you laugh with it and

689
00:37:20,039 --> 00:37:23,639
you you are kind of understanding the film. I could

690
00:37:23,639 --> 00:37:25,719
see a lot of people watch this and not getting

691
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,199
the humor. But it's funny that you mentioned like you

692
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,559
got it right away, you kind of understood what was

693
00:37:31,599 --> 00:37:34,079
going for, And I think that's kind of key to

694
00:37:34,159 --> 00:37:35,079
the film, don't you think.

695
00:37:36,159 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, because I mean there's something about the way

696
00:37:40,599 --> 00:37:43,039
there's an eye roll to a lot of the gobs

697
00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:46,400
of dialogue that she has to say about her code,

698
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,280
and it's really all a way to you know, this

699
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,599
is a softcore movie, so it fits. She's not going

700
00:37:51,679 --> 00:37:53,119
to go all the way. We're not going to see

701
00:37:53,159 --> 00:37:54,920
her go all the way. In a way, this is

702
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,639
a little bit like what's his name the guy that

703
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:05,440
did Flesh Gordon, how he's what's their first one? Yeah,

704
00:38:05,559 --> 00:38:08,280
Mona is all I'll do everything. But and you know,

705
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,639
of course it's it's explicit, but it fits better here

706
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,639
because this is a softcore movie and it's all, like

707
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,679
you said, very cleverly done in the editing. It like

708
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,320
The Love Garden too, it gets this close. But her

709
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:27,639
performance talking about the wholesomeness of her code. Really, when

710
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,679
she's about to do like the filthiest stuff and she's

711
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,000
the one driving the car, she's like, this is like

712
00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:37,480
that Pasolina movie where Terrence Stamp comes in and fucks

713
00:38:37,519 --> 00:38:43,760
the whole family basically, or Liberus Quartet or something. It's

714
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,559
where this, you know, this really this you know, family

715
00:38:47,639 --> 00:38:51,400
of miscreants get kind of visited upon by a you know,

716
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,519
a sexual uh dynamo, and she sort of has her

717
00:38:56,599 --> 00:38:59,400
way with all of them, and she's in charge of everything.

718
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:04,039
You never really, I never really get the sense that

719
00:39:04,159 --> 00:39:06,800
she's this, you know, because she's in high school, that

720
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,800
it's sort of you know, untoured or whatever, because that's

721
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,519
not how it's played at all, and that's not how

722
00:39:14,599 --> 00:39:17,400
it's supposed to be taken either. This is this is

723
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,760
a seventeen year old going on a forty and that's it.

724
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,119
Speaker 7: Could have been so tasteless, it could have come across

725
00:39:23,119 --> 00:39:25,239
it could have been a completely tasteless approach to the

726
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,440
subject matter of this teenager, like sleeping her way through

727
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,639
her neighborhood, and it's just not like it's you're right,

728
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,079
she is in full control of that. She's kind of like, well,

729
00:39:34,679 --> 00:39:38,639
I want to seek sexual pleasure because I'm a budding

730
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,960
young woman, and I'm gonna do it the way I

731
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,199
want to do it. I have rules, and that doesn't

732
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,519
mean that I can't do the most insane things. And

733
00:39:48,199 --> 00:39:51,480
tying into that the whole sm M sequence, which kind

734
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,760
of comes out of nowhere, but it's interesting because I

735
00:39:55,039 --> 00:39:58,679
like that it's punctuated by her laughing at the tickle

736
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,719
of him, you know, you know, and so it's kind

737
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,159
of like, Okay, this isn't this is not the image,

738
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,840
you know, it's it's it's this is it's it's playful

739
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:09,480
s and m it's you know. And even at the

740
00:40:09,559 --> 00:40:12,199
end where she's like, well maybe I'll bring like these

741
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,480
toys and things to this party, it's like it's it's

742
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:17,760
very different from hardcore. And then it really is about

743
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:22,000
like the exploration of sex from a weirdly wholesome angle.

744
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,599
It's it's, you know it. It reminds me kind of

745
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:29,000
like like Danish hardcore films, like the Zodiac films are

746
00:40:29,119 --> 00:40:30,960
very similar. You don't really have stuff like that in

747
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,960
the American hardcore at all, like Mona is. The Mona

748
00:40:34,079 --> 00:40:37,719
is very iffy in a very similar subject matter. So

749
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:39,960
it is like the inverse of like a Liquorus quartet

750
00:40:40,199 --> 00:40:42,320
or like a Teo Arema where it's like or even

751
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,559
a Sarno where the Sarno is about an interloper coming

752
00:40:45,599 --> 00:40:47,960
in and kind of disrupting things and then we get

753
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:52,119
to focus on how that affects that family. We don't

754
00:40:52,159 --> 00:40:54,719
care about this family. There means to an end, and

755
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,440
the end is her sexual liberation, which is just like

756
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,599
kind of shockingly progressive when you think about it.

757
00:41:03,079 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and I mean it feels like an orgy.

758
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:12,639
Speaker 6: Bobby comes home from Guatemala, right, right, right, We just hope.

759
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 2: That Bobby is you know, he's he's welcoming to the

760
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,599
new tricks that she's learned. I think is We hope,

761
00:41:20,079 --> 00:41:21,679
but it feels like a happy ending. Right.

762
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 7: If he's not, then she'll just move on. Yeah, that's

763
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:26,719
what the impression I'm getting. She's not. It's it's sort

764
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,159
of like, you know, we've seen films where where women

765
00:41:30,199 --> 00:41:31,559
are kind of like, well, I have to do this

766
00:41:31,679 --> 00:41:33,840
because my boyfriend wants it and they kind of have

767
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,159
to grin and bear it, and she's I think that's

768
00:41:37,199 --> 00:41:40,239
why it's important to introduce the film and the character

769
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,039
with that masturbation sequence, because it's like she's exploring herself.

770
00:41:44,159 --> 00:41:47,400
She has sexual desire, she wants pleasure, but she's just

771
00:41:47,639 --> 00:41:50,960
she has rules to establish boundaries of what she's comfortable doing.

772
00:41:51,679 --> 00:41:55,000
And that's you don't see that even in hardcore the

773
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,280
of the era. It's just like it's it's yeah, it's

774
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,360
just Yea Haggard new what he was doing. That script

775
00:42:01,559 --> 00:42:05,199
script is shockingly it's more subversive than you would think.

776
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 2: Well, you don't see it in hardcore because they had

777
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,280
already done it in softcore. So you're going to see

778
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,159
a hardcore movie, why would you want to see a

779
00:42:13,199 --> 00:42:14,440
scene that you can see in softcore.

780
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:18,519
Speaker 7: Well, I mean, like, like thematically, it's always about the

781
00:42:18,599 --> 00:42:21,440
man because that's who the audience does. But the audience

782
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,280
for this is still meant so it's you know, the

783
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,079
messaging of it is just kind of I mean, the

784
00:42:27,119 --> 00:42:28,960
messaging is always going to be iffy. It's like, yeah,

785
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,599
this is an underage girl, it's you know, saturtory rape

786
00:42:31,639 --> 00:42:35,280
or you know, obviously, but the fact that it focuses

787
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,920
on her taking charge and seeking her un sexual liberation

788
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,199
on her terms is something that not even hardcore would

789
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,480
do for years. Like it was became, it didn't become

790
00:42:45,559 --> 00:42:46,599
common until way later.

791
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:52,760
Speaker 5: Dear Diary, Bobby comes home tonight. I can't wait. Have

792
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,679
I got a few things to show him. I just

793
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,280
hope he picked up a little experience with girls while he's.

794
00:42:59,199 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 3: Done there on Guatema.

795
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,119
Speaker 5: But if he didn't, I don't mind.

796
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 8: Being his teacher.

797
00:43:04,119 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 2: I was going to ask you Patrick again, like, did

798
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,920
we really talk about why Bob made this softcore film?

799
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,679
Speaker 6: Because I mean that's all he was doing from seventy

800
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,199
two to seventy four, he had stepped away from hardcore

801
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,960
because it was just too risky, and so everything that

802
00:43:21,039 --> 00:43:24,440
he did from seventy two to seventy three, In seventy

803
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:30,199
two and seventy three that was softcore. Between these the

804
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,320
Danish Connection, which he didn't really have a whole lot

805
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,360
to do with. But then the two movies that he

806
00:43:35,559 --> 00:43:39,199
directed that were supposed to be mainstream movies, Panama Red

807
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,800
and The Devil's Garden, they didn't really take off. But

808
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,599
then he was convinced to go to San Francisco in

809
00:43:44,679 --> 00:43:48,239
seventy four to shoot He was convinced to get back

810
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,880
into hardcore and change, and then said they said, hey,

811
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,199
why don't you go up to San Francisco to shoot this?

812
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,280
And he went up and did The Married Woman, which

813
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,960
was his return the next year to hardcore.

814
00:44:01,639 --> 00:44:01,760
Speaker 5: Uh.

815
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,519
Speaker 6: But yeah, in the interim, he was just trying to

816
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,599
do anything he could in the business to either make

817
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:12,519
movies or produce movies, because hardcore at that time was

818
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:14,159
just it didn't look like it was going to be

819
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:19,000
viable in la and how e Ze kind of proved

820
00:44:19,039 --> 00:44:23,079
that with Flesh Gordon Flesh, Gorton was a very expensive,

821
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,719
very very glaring example of what what could happen to

822
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:32,039
you if if you, if you continued to brazenly shoot

823
00:44:32,119 --> 00:44:35,599
hardcore in LA. So that's why it's a softcore movie now.

824
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:40,800
Speaker 2: Damn, I'm very curious by that. The difference between San

825
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,159
Francisco and Los Angeles, Like, can you guys one of

826
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,000
you touch on that a little bit more? Like why

827
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:46,480
was it?

828
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:48,079
Speaker 6: Was it just the law?

829
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 7: Was it like legal law enforcement?

830
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,079
Speaker 6: Thank you? That was not that one deal. They didn't

831
00:44:53,119 --> 00:44:53,679
care about them.

832
00:44:54,159 --> 00:44:56,519
Speaker 7: I mean, politicians gave a ship because they complained about

833
00:44:56,559 --> 00:44:59,079
it a lot like Diane Feinstein do not Rest in

834
00:44:59,119 --> 00:45:02,880
Peace was constant anti form in San Francisco. They constantly

835
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:04,920
were trying to shut down things in the Tenderloin and

836
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,079
shut down Horno theaters and stuff. But they didn't care

837
00:45:07,119 --> 00:45:10,079
about shooting there. Right, It was not like, yeah, it

838
00:45:10,159 --> 00:45:12,400
wasn't like the L A p D. Where actually it

839
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,480
was kind of the opposite. In LA they cared about

840
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,639
the production. The exhibition was not as big a deal

841
00:45:18,199 --> 00:45:21,119
in San Francisco. It was reversed where you could shoot

842
00:45:21,199 --> 00:45:25,519
up there showing it was like a problematic and certainly, yeah,

843
00:45:25,519 --> 00:45:27,800
I mean the Mitchell brothers. Could the Mitchell Brothers had

844
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,400
to do with a lot Yeah, up there and low

845
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,639
Will pick Itt Arlene Elster too, I believe, Yeah, and

846
00:45:32,679 --> 00:45:37,199
Alex dec yes, yeah, the screening room exactly. So yeah,

847
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,480
that was more of the issue. In San Francisco, LA,

848
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:42,880
Like the Pussy Guy was huge, you know, they they

849
00:45:43,039 --> 00:45:49,480
had other adult theaters in LA. I mean, yes, right,

850
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:55,360
I mean, oh god, yes, that's right closing, I know,

851
00:45:56,039 --> 00:45:58,880
oh god, yeah, I just heard that end of an era.

852
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,840
And it wasn't that the movies were like, it wasn't

853
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,679
the movies got off scott free in exhibition. There there

854
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,280
were obviously still going to be issues, but it wasn't.

855
00:46:08,119 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 10: It was.

856
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,119
Speaker 7: The bigger issue in LA was the production, Like they

857
00:46:11,199 --> 00:46:13,199
wanted to bust you because that was what they could

858
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:17,320
really bust you on, which was basically the prostitution in

859
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,599
loitering and pandering charges because you were paying people to

860
00:46:20,679 --> 00:46:23,239
have sex, which was illegal. That was cops.

861
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:24,119
Speaker 6: That was in New York too.

862
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 2: Cops were literally like period into windows trying to capture

863
00:46:27,519 --> 00:46:28,760
like them shooting it right.

864
00:46:29,159 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 7: And now you see that in Blue Money.

865
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 6: And that's why you have tight groups of actors and

866
00:46:34,559 --> 00:46:38,880
actresses is because you know it's all a matter of trust,

867
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,360
and you know that you didn't want to bring newvies

868
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,559
in onto your production in LA because you didn't know

869
00:46:45,199 --> 00:46:46,960
who these people were. You didn't know what kind of

870
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,039
trouble they could be in. They could rat you out

871
00:46:49,199 --> 00:46:51,320
to the cops to if they were facing a drug

872
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,920
charge or something. That was just a really, really bad

873
00:46:54,000 --> 00:47:01,679
situation for directors and producers in southern Californi. But you know,

874
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,840
the difference in what the movies feel like. There is

875
00:47:06,119 --> 00:47:10,440
a world's worth of difference between the hardcore productions being

876
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:13,639
shot in LA in say seventy one or seventy two,

877
00:47:14,079 --> 00:47:17,400
and say The Married Woman in seventy four. It's like

878
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,320
a big breath of fresh air. There is a big

879
00:47:20,519 --> 00:47:25,519
sense of relief in San Francisco that's just not there

880
00:47:25,559 --> 00:47:29,320
in LA. The shots are more careful, they take their time.

881
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,000
It just it just feels much much more, much less

882
00:47:34,079 --> 00:47:37,599
run and gun, like they're looking over their shoulder. Yeah,

883
00:47:37,639 --> 00:47:40,719
The Married Woman is a great example of just this

884
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:45,639
stark difference in hardcore that pre seventy six in the

885
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:46,760
two areas.

886
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 7: For LA productions, Like when at the beginning you have

887
00:47:51,159 --> 00:47:53,679
things like Mona with a lot of outdoor scenes or

888
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,719
Harlotte with that amazing sequence on the top of a

889
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:01,280
building being shot from the helicopter and then eventually it

890
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:07,079
settles down and it's really hotel rooms, like houses, pools,

891
00:48:07,199 --> 00:48:10,360
usually owned by like you know, secret Hollywood people. The

892
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,559
San Francisco even earlier films like the like the Deerenzi

893
00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:16,000
stuff and the Mitchell stuff, a lot of location footage,

894
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,559
a lot of taking advantage of the different locations and stuff,

895
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,440
and actually and getting like professional football players in their movies,

896
00:48:24,559 --> 00:48:28,519
like you know, in San Francisco football players. So even yeah,

897
00:48:28,639 --> 00:48:31,119
even that whole thing, there is that sense of like

898
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,639
it's taken a little more seriously, or it's taken more artistically,

899
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,480
or like it's a it's an active expression in San Francisco,

900
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,400
where in La it's like, I mean, it's it's essentially

901
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:41,760
we got to make money and this is how we're

902
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:42,199
going to do it.

903
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:44,199
Speaker 2: How long was Bob up there?

904
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 9: Then?

905
00:48:44,639 --> 00:48:48,119
Speaker 6: In San Francisco he continued to shoot up there for

906
00:48:48,199 --> 00:48:52,559
their until you know, like the mid eighties or whatever,

907
00:48:52,679 --> 00:48:55,840
when he was shooting like stuff on video that where

908
00:48:56,159 --> 00:48:59,760
you know, the law, the law didn't change. The eighty

909
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,920
eight was I think when it became technically legal to

910
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:07,480
shoot born in LA but they were they started to

911
00:49:07,559 --> 00:49:10,519
shoot like on video in people's house. He was shooting

912
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,559
in the mid you know, in the eighties. I think

913
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,880
was mid eighties is when he started to really go

914
00:49:17,079 --> 00:49:18,800
back to LA to shoot. But by that point he

915
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:23,039
was pretty much done so, but he would go to

916
00:49:23,119 --> 00:49:27,960
San Francisco for almost every shoot, with the exception of

917
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:33,599
Disco Ladies in LA Production and there's a couple of others,

918
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:37,360
but most every other movie he made from seventy four

919
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:41,440
to eighty five is San Francisco mostly well.

920
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:43,599
Speaker 7: So you can tell by the talent usually as well,

921
00:49:44,119 --> 00:49:47,079
because there's a I mean, Chris Cassidy very much san Francisco,

922
00:49:47,639 --> 00:49:50,360
Like even Pizza Girls, like yeah, Lauri and Dominique and

923
00:49:51,159 --> 00:49:54,400
can you Roy san Francisco. Yeah, yeah, you can usually

924
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:56,119
tell by the cast. Sometimes they'd bring people up from

925
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:58,559
LA like I don't think you've worked with Ronical Heart,

926
00:49:58,639 --> 00:50:01,320
but like that's why when I interview her and about

927
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:05,079
the Gary Graver movies, she had to remind me know

928
00:50:05,119 --> 00:50:07,079
these were all shot in San Francisco. I'm like, really,

929
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,239
like I thought they were a Los Angeles because it's

930
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:13,679
all LA people. She said, no, the bus were still happening.

931
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:17,360
They were shot in San Francisco, like movies were very

932
00:50:17,599 --> 00:50:19,760
very rarely shot in LA after a certain point, once

933
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,400
people found out San Francisco was it head for the Hills,

934
00:50:22,559 --> 00:50:25,199
literally San Francisco, Grace.

935
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,760
Speaker 10: I don't know what's gotten into you. Every time I

936
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:32,119
start showing affection, you act as if I were insulting you.

937
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,800
Speaker 5: Mark b reason, we have to get up in about

938
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,360
five hours, So can't you just be an.

939
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:39,599
Speaker 10: Ancient and ghostly.

940
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:43,639
Speaker 7: All right?

941
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:44,039
Speaker 3: Damn it.

942
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 10: Don't be surprised if you wake up one morning and

943
00:50:47,559 --> 00:50:50,079
find that your husband is having himself a little fling

944
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:50,880
on the side.

945
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:52,559
Speaker 6: Yeah.

946
00:50:52,559 --> 00:50:58,159
Speaker 2: I want to talk about Douglas Nap, cinematographer, very interesting career. Yeah,

947
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,840
so he also shot Lovegarden, but he went on to

948
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:02,920
work with John Carpenter.

949
00:51:03,679 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 6: Shot Go to Yeah on p.

950
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,119
Speaker 7: Thirteen, which is great. I think he was the guy

951
00:51:11,199 --> 00:51:13,280
before Dean Condy came along and kind of was like

952
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,079
then kind of took over. Dean Condy stumbled it.

953
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:18,280
Speaker 6: He was, he was. He was super busy working on

954
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:24,280
Matt Simpers movies because he shot the Lady Taylor, Lady Coco, right, Yeah,

955
00:51:24,599 --> 00:51:26,119
and the witch who came in from the city. You

956
00:51:26,199 --> 00:51:28,079
shot that one, yes, which is great.

957
00:51:29,079 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 7: Nap got kind of you served. I mean, he wasn't

958
00:51:33,039 --> 00:51:36,119
he was, he was, he wasn't lacking for work after that.

959
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,199
But it's just interesting to think of him as connected

960
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,840
with Carpenter for like a couple of years and then

961
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,360
it became the Dean Condy Show all the way.

962
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think the real MVP here is also

963
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,440
Don Dunn, composer who did the music, which is a

964
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:56,840
huge part of this movie. It absolutely it wouldn't work

965
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:58,039
without it for sure.

966
00:51:59,039 --> 00:51:59,199
Speaker 5: Yeah.

967
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:03,159
Speaker 6: That song is an airworm I can't get I mean, yeah,

968
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:04,280
it gets in my head.

969
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:04,840
Speaker 9: I love that.

970
00:52:05,119 --> 00:52:07,639
Speaker 6: I love that tune, and I love Yeah, I love

971
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,199
all the all the music throughout the movie.

972
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 2: It's just really Yeah, who was it that told you

973
00:52:13,119 --> 00:52:16,239
Casey that was it done himself that said it was

974
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:18,360
mostly piano, Because that's not mostly piano.

975
00:52:18,519 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 7: No, that was first Kimmel for all American women. Don' well.

976
00:52:24,039 --> 00:52:26,159
Don Dunn was like, that was a situation where I

977
00:52:26,199 --> 00:52:30,679
thought he died. He's not dead. Another IMDb falsehood, They

978
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,000
confused him with another Donald Dunn that was a bass

979
00:52:33,039 --> 00:52:35,519
player for Stax records who died in a hotel room

980
00:52:35,559 --> 00:52:38,320
in Tokyo while he was on tour with Eddie Floyd.

981
00:52:39,679 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 6: Love.

982
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 7: Yes, exactly like he died. That's not the same Don

983
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,239
dunn So the Don this Don Dunne was mostly a

984
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,559
songwriter and he wrote a lot of songs that recovered

985
00:52:48,559 --> 00:52:52,639
by like a lot of major people. And uh, now

986
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:55,719
he's still around, So another person I should call because

987
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,679
if he has the tapes for the soundtrack, I I

988
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:01,920
would be desper for a soundtrack, you know, CD or

989
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:02,920
released because.

990
00:53:03,039 --> 00:53:05,360
Speaker 2: Every piece and this is great, Yeah, the way that

991
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:10,199
they I wonder if he composed while watching the film.

992
00:53:10,519 --> 00:53:14,079
You know, I know musicians for film work very differently,

993
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:16,480
but it feels like it because the way that it

994
00:53:16,639 --> 00:53:18,960
crescendos for a lot of these scenes.

995
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, just perfect.

996
00:53:21,639 --> 00:53:21,800
Speaker 11: Yeah.

997
00:53:22,599 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's very cut to the music. And and I

998
00:53:25,039 --> 00:53:28,119
should say that it felt like Love Garden that way.

999
00:53:28,199 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was cut to the music, So you know

1000
00:53:30,039 --> 00:53:30,920
that seems.

1001
00:53:30,639 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 6: Like, yeah, I mean that was just something that did

1002
00:53:33,599 --> 00:53:34,760
Haggard cut both of those?

1003
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 5: Right?

1004
00:53:35,079 --> 00:53:36,079
Speaker 6: You said he did?

1005
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:40,119
Speaker 7: So that's yeah, because well, and that whole Love Garden

1006
00:53:40,159 --> 00:53:42,639
situation was weird, and that actually ties into the sound

1007
00:53:42,679 --> 00:53:45,519
guy on this because the story, the story of Love

1008
00:53:45,599 --> 00:53:51,320
Garden losing its entire soundtrack is a director and producer's

1009
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,760
worst nightmare, because they had like they it's they. It's

1010
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,679
The interesting thing is I'd seen that movie multiple times.

1011
00:53:58,320 --> 00:53:59,719
For some reason, it never clicked to me that it

1012
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,199
was was dubbed because I just bought into it. I

1013
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,920
never bought it. And then I read Bob's book where

1014
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,639
we discussed an amateur soundman losing the tapes or saying

1015
00:54:08,679 --> 00:54:11,320
they were stolen from his car. Like, nobody would steal

1016
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,239
these tapes. Nobody knows what they are. They're not going

1017
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:17,360
to steal reels of sound. So they had the three

1018
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,440
cast members have to go into the studio re record

1019
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,039
and then rain Na dou who directed Beauties and the

1020
00:54:22,079 --> 00:54:25,960
Beast and some other stuff, had to like minutely edit it.

1021
00:54:26,599 --> 00:54:31,239
So two editing problems, Mark Haggard being taking his time

1022
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:34,480
and rain A Doe having to edit the audio the

1023
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:37,639
you know, the dialogue. So it's a miracle that movie

1024
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:39,639
turned out as well as it did, considering that that

1025
00:54:39,679 --> 00:54:41,239
could have totally sunk that production.

1026
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 6: And they do such a great job, and Bob said that,

1027
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:50,719
you know, they gave better performances doing the eyeball sync

1028
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,000
than they did in the actual movie. So it ended

1029
00:54:54,079 --> 00:54:57,960
up turning out to work in its favor. But they

1030
00:54:58,079 --> 00:55:01,320
do do a really great job just looking at their

1031
00:55:01,559 --> 00:55:05,280
images and on the screen and trying to recreate the

1032
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:09,119
speed and the right tone. And yeah, they do a

1033
00:55:09,159 --> 00:55:11,400
really really good job for that movie with that movie.

1034
00:55:11,519 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think it says a lot for all three

1035
00:55:13,559 --> 00:55:15,960
cast members too. I mean, we've we've obviously read about

1036
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,800
Barbara Mills and how good she is, but like Linda

1037
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:21,400
York is always good, and Jason Yukon this is one

1038
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,000
of his only movies where he actually acts like the

1039
00:55:24,079 --> 00:55:27,519
god Son is He's not very good in that. But yeah,

1040
00:55:27,639 --> 00:55:29,719
all three of them are like doing really good work

1041
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,039
in The Love Garden, and I think that post dubbing

1042
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:36,159
session is super helpful to actually make their performance better,

1043
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,480
like a happy accident. Well so in terms of sound,

1044
00:55:40,639 --> 00:55:43,840
like the Love Garden sound was messed up. So I

1045
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,559
don't know how. I don't know how this like guy,

1046
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:50,079
the sound guy in this was a guy named Paul

1047
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:53,159
was Paul Magwood, And so I go to look at

1048
00:55:53,159 --> 00:55:55,480
his resume and I say that he wrote and directed

1049
00:55:55,559 --> 00:55:59,320
a movie for MGM called Chandler, which was taken away

1050
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:02,840
from him and then it behind his back, and I'm thinking, how,

1051
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,360
why two years later is this guy who made a

1052
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:11,360
movie for a major studio doing sound on this exploitation movie. Well,

1053
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:15,079
he produced Haggard's short film about John Ford, So I

1054
00:56:15,119 --> 00:56:19,159
feel like this was a case where Haggard was like,

1055
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:21,920
I know you know what you're doing. Can you come

1056
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,239
to me a favor and record sound on this movie?

1057
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:29,960
Very quickly? And he credited this guy. He's the only

1058
00:56:30,079 --> 00:56:33,199
thing he ever did sound on, so it's very it's

1059
00:56:33,199 --> 00:56:36,559
a very odd credit. And even odnors it apparently he's

1060
00:56:36,599 --> 00:56:41,519
married to Leslie Krone. Still I find very unusual. Uh

1061
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:44,639
and uh he's still around, so I'd like to I

1062
00:56:44,639 --> 00:56:47,360
would like to get the full skinny about how he

1063
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:49,840
ended up doing the sound on this movie. And it's

1064
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:52,320
such a unique name, Paul Magwood. Not a lot of

1065
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,639
Paul Magwood's, so I think it'd be very unusual for

1066
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:56,719
two people working in Hollywood, in the film industry to

1067
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:00,719
have that specific to that sort.

1068
00:57:00,519 --> 00:57:02,840
Speaker 6: Of related to that. John Hayes did sound on The

1069
00:57:04,119 --> 00:57:07,239
Bob's Unmarried or The Married Woman, and he'd already that's

1070
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:11,679
after he'd already directed tons. Yeah. Well that Grave at

1071
00:57:11,679 --> 00:57:14,719
the Vampire is big, you know, right, but I mean

1072
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,199
not quite the same thing as making a movie a

1073
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:18,400
period piece for MGM.

1074
00:57:18,639 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 7: But but like he'd been directing. I mean, John Hayes

1075
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:23,840
ha been making movie since like the late fifties, like

1076
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:27,239
he did The Room mcclanean thing, like he'd been directing

1077
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:30,039
a lot. So that is very odd credit where it's like, yeah,

1078
00:57:30,039 --> 00:57:30,440
I'll help you.

1079
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 6: Out, why not.

1080
00:57:31,239 --> 00:57:34,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's nice Brian's help of John Hayes.

1081
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:37,599
Speaker 6: Yeah, I liked everything I've seen with John Hayes.

1082
00:57:38,039 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's really good. Another one, La had to go

1083
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:44,320
to San Francisco to do Baby Rosemary and Hot Lunch.

1084
00:57:44,719 --> 00:57:45,599
All of his hardcore?

1085
00:57:46,079 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, how much hardcore did he do? I mean, you

1086
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:49,360
do very much hardcore?

1087
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:49,599
Speaker 10: Right.

1088
00:57:50,599 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 7: I think that people are conflating his hardcore because he

1089
00:57:54,079 --> 00:57:56,800
used Harold Perkins on a lot, well, the ones that

1090
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,119
are known he used Harold Perkins on. I think people

1091
00:57:59,159 --> 00:58:02,880
will say like Harold Parkins or variations that sound like

1092
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,400
Carol Perkins and assign him to other films without verifying

1093
00:58:06,599 --> 00:58:10,480
that it's actually him. I think he did less than

1094
00:58:10,559 --> 00:58:13,480
ten maybe less than five, it wasn't something that he

1095
00:58:13,559 --> 00:58:16,199
did on the regular. Well, the other only other cast

1096
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,760
member that I took notes on was was Jack English,

1097
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,800
who was the gaffer, and so he worked again with

1098
00:58:23,159 --> 00:58:26,119
Douglas Knapp on bad Lands and Assaults on pre SEEDT thirteen.

1099
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:28,960
So I'm not saying they came as a package deal,

1100
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:30,719
but I think it's just interesting. We both ended up

1101
00:58:30,719 --> 00:58:33,440
working on those two movies together, and English kept working

1102
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:35,000
as a gaffer on all sorts of stuff. I mean,

1103
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,760
he worked with Altman, he was on short worked on Shortcuts.

1104
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,159
But the big thing that I the two big credits

1105
00:58:41,199 --> 00:58:44,199
that I care about was he was assistant Cameron Pets,

1106
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:49,159
which is the iconic Candice Rylson star vehicle. And then

1107
00:58:49,199 --> 00:58:51,480
he was the lighting director on Eyes of Fire, which

1108
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:56,079
is incredible, the incredible precursor to The Witch. You know,

1109
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:01,400
so very interesting career and another guy that I'm like

1110
00:59:02,679 --> 00:59:05,400
the great thing about interviewing people and the crew, they

1111
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:10,320
don't have any reputation to protect, so if there is

1112
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:13,440
stuff that happened on the set, they are not going

1113
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:15,599
to mince words. They're going to tell you who is

1114
00:59:15,639 --> 00:59:18,559
a problem. They're gonna tell you. Yeah, if you're looking

1115
00:59:18,599 --> 00:59:21,400
for dirt on a movie set, like Grips and Gaffers

1116
00:59:21,639 --> 00:59:25,199
and pas will tell you yeah, the cinematographer problem may

1117
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:27,360
not because they're still working. Grips and Gaffers are kind

1118
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:29,440
of like, yeah, I'll tell you whatever you want. So

1119
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:30,480
I'd love to talk to him.

1120
00:59:35,079 --> 00:59:37,679
Speaker 5: It's been a pleasant week, after all. I think I

1121
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:41,519
misjudged Johnny Goodman. Sure he's shy and blushes a lot,

1122
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:44,400
but he's a nice kid. I help him with his

1123
00:59:44,519 --> 00:59:46,599
homework and he always thanks me and asks me if

1124
00:59:46,599 --> 00:59:50,119
he can give me a coke. I learned he wrote poetry,

1125
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,159
and he made me a promise not to laugh if

1126
00:59:53,199 --> 00:59:55,239
he read some to me, so I promised.

1127
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:57,119
Speaker 2: The poems are kind of cute.

1128
00:59:58,039 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 5: Actually, Johnny's only problem is he's never had any experience

1129
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,760
with the girl that I'm going to remitate.

1130
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 10: That very soon.

1131
01:00:05,599 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 5: Now.

1132
01:00:06,559 --> 01:00:08,119
Speaker 2: Well, I know we talked a little bit about Peggy

1133
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:11,440
Church Casey. You said that she was in men's magazines.

1134
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:14,159
I haven't seen any of her men's magazine stuff, Meg,

1135
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:15,519
do you know what she did?

1136
01:00:15,519 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 7: A lot, a lots a lot of men's magazines. Yeah,

1137
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:23,119
she was a regular. And that's the thing. There are

1138
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,440
very few actresses in this industry that didn't do modeling

1139
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:29,000
in magazines, like whether they use that name or not,

1140
01:00:29,199 --> 01:00:31,320
so it's tougher to track them down. But yeah, I

1141
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:33,800
mean that was that was what their agents got them.

1142
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:35,679
It was either acting work or modeling work, and that

1143
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:39,519
was including print work. So yeah, she definitely did print work.

1144
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:42,840
And I don't know where this information that she was

1145
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:47,039
born in. I've seen two places, either West Virginia or

1146
01:00:47,079 --> 01:00:49,039
False Church, West Virginia, which is right next door to

1147
01:00:49,119 --> 01:00:52,079
my hometown. I worked in False Church for years, so

1148
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:54,719
I'm like, oh, does she move back? Is she local?

1149
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:55,079
Speaker 2: Now?

1150
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:59,079
Speaker 7: You know, it makes you wonder, But I don't know

1151
01:00:59,079 --> 01:01:01,000
where that info came from. I don't know if it's accurate.

1152
01:01:01,559 --> 01:01:04,039
So yeah, she is kind of one of the enduring

1153
01:01:04,079 --> 01:01:06,679
mysteries of seventy s exploitation and that she made such

1154
01:01:06,679 --> 01:01:09,639
an impact in this one movie and then has smaller

1155
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:12,960
interesting roles and other stuff. But she's just not as

1156
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:16,920
good in anything else that as good as she is

1157
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:19,039
in this. I think it helps she was dealing with

1158
01:01:19,559 --> 01:01:23,079
someone like Haggard and who was going to give her time,

1159
01:01:23,519 --> 01:01:26,280
And yeah, I don't know. It feels like she's one

1160
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:30,599
of those actresses that excelled in working with a good director. Also,

1161
01:01:30,719 --> 01:01:32,480
I guess Sarno's kind of like that too, Like Tina

1162
01:01:32,559 --> 01:01:36,960
Russell's not really good except in Joe Sarno films. So

1163
01:01:37,079 --> 01:01:39,239
I guess she's the Tina Russell of the West Coast,

1164
01:01:39,559 --> 01:01:40,760
except she didn't do hardcore.

1165
01:01:41,559 --> 01:01:43,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, Pigkeeper's Daughter is the only kind of other.

1166
01:01:43,719 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 7: Media role I've seen her in. Yeah, she's not good

1167
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:50,320
at bit parts. Yeah, but she's very whiny in that.

1168
01:01:50,519 --> 01:01:52,320
It's kind of like she plays she plays a version

1169
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:56,239
of this character. I mean her introductory sexiness, her masturbating

1170
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:58,320
on the roof of a of a hut while her

1171
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:02,599
boyfriend has sex Ary Gibson, and so yeah, she's basically

1172
01:02:02,639 --> 01:02:05,320
whinting about trying to keep her virginity. It's it's very

1173
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:06,840
different from this where it's kind of like, well I

1174
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:08,719
want to keep my virginity, but I want to explore.

1175
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:09,519
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1176
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny you mentioned the modeling work. Is I

1177
01:02:12,039 --> 01:02:13,960
want to see it now to see how she's presented,

1178
01:02:14,039 --> 01:02:16,920
because clearly like she was hired for this part because

1179
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:20,760
she looks younger and she presents younger.

1180
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:22,920
Speaker 7: How do I put this like a part of her

1181
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:26,880
now it's not presented in like age inappropriate kind of things.

1182
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:29,599
Is that what you're hinting at. She's not. That was

1183
01:02:29,719 --> 01:02:31,920
not and I'm not going to say it didn't happen then,

1184
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:34,480
but it was. It didn't become as it didn't happen

1185
01:02:34,519 --> 01:02:36,840
as much. She's not a little Velvet Summers, Let's put

1186
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:38,760
it that way, like a little Velvet Summers in the

1187
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:41,599
early eighties in New York. This Pip Squeak is like

1188
01:02:41,599 --> 01:02:44,519
four foot eight. Obviously, cast is like, you know, an

1189
01:02:44,559 --> 01:02:49,199
adolescent or younger. Peggy's church is always in her magazine work.

1190
01:02:49,239 --> 01:02:52,159
She's always presented as an adult. She's posed as an adult.

1191
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:55,199
It's not even a high schooler. She really is. Her

1192
01:02:56,679 --> 01:02:59,880
modeling work is presenting an of age adult woman.

1193
01:03:00,239 --> 01:03:00,400
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1194
01:03:00,519 --> 01:03:03,519
Speaker 7: Yeah, well god, she is going to be very awkward. Yeah.

1195
01:03:03,519 --> 01:03:05,559
Speaker 2: I don't know how much we'll run through the cast

1196
01:03:05,639 --> 01:03:07,719
list quick, but I mean a few of these are

1197
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:11,000
just there's nothing right. It's one of those cases.

1198
01:03:11,119 --> 01:03:15,079
Speaker 7: Everyone use pseudonyms, like even Tracy Handfrews, who's Tracy Rogers

1199
01:03:15,719 --> 01:03:19,599
and Tracy Handfrews is one of the hidden gems I

1200
01:03:19,679 --> 01:03:22,960
think of exploitation. She's in the big snatch with Peggy Church,

1201
01:03:23,079 --> 01:03:24,760
and I don't know if either of you have seen that.

1202
01:03:25,199 --> 01:03:28,880
She plays one of these women who's abducted by this

1203
01:03:29,199 --> 01:03:31,519
horrible guy to keep us like his love slaves on

1204
01:03:31,599 --> 01:03:34,039
a farm. And she plays a lesbian in that, and

1205
01:03:34,159 --> 01:03:37,199
she there's a really good, crazy twist ending that involves her,

1206
01:03:37,599 --> 01:03:41,880
and she's really good in that. Don Greer cast her

1207
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:45,000
in the lead role in The God Daughter, which is fine.

1208
01:03:45,519 --> 01:03:48,159
But she's typically very good. She's just not used well

1209
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:50,960
by a lot of directors, kind of like a Barbara Mills.

1210
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:53,000
Actually she didn't really, she didn't even get the lead

1211
01:03:53,079 --> 01:03:56,000
roles of Barbara did. But I think she's she's very

1212
01:03:56,119 --> 01:03:59,159
she's typically very good. She handles dialogue really well. And

1213
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:01,599
not her real name, because no one has ever existed

1214
01:04:01,639 --> 01:04:04,159
with that name, as I have searched high and low

1215
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:07,159
for someone named Tracy Handfous.

1216
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:10,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a strange name. It's got to be fake.

1217
01:04:10,639 --> 01:04:13,039
Speaker 7: Well, it's hand and then foot in German, so it's

1218
01:04:13,239 --> 01:04:18,280
technical Tracy Handfoot is Yeah, it's a stupid pseudonym, so

1219
01:04:18,679 --> 01:04:20,880
you know, uh. And there are very few people who

1220
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,519
would remember anything about her, because yeah, she would show

1221
01:04:24,599 --> 01:04:25,920
up and do work and leave kind of like a

1222
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:26,679
Kathy Hilton.

1223
01:04:27,159 --> 01:04:29,639
Speaker 2: Well, and all her scenes here are just with girls,

1224
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:32,360
which is similar to the Big Snatch, Right, I'm trying

1225
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:35,559
to remember if she has a male female scene in

1226
01:04:35,679 --> 01:04:36,320
Big Snatch.

1227
01:04:37,159 --> 01:04:38,960
Speaker 7: I don't recall. I don't think that there's a I

1228
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:39,360
don't think.

1229
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:39,639
Speaker 5: I think.

1230
01:04:39,719 --> 01:04:42,679
Speaker 7: I don't think she has like an assault scene. Oh wait, no,

1231
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:45,760
I don't remember. Yeah, unless she was part of that long,

1232
01:04:46,039 --> 01:04:49,840
long sequence near the end where they're like shagging him

1233
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:54,079
to death. I don't remember. Yeah, I don't remember that.

1234
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:57,280
Speaker 2: It just went on forever Alan Abelou, like you mentioned, Yeah,

1235
01:04:57,320 --> 01:05:00,480
he's a Mark guy. He showed up in first musical.

1236
01:05:01,079 --> 01:05:05,840
He plays Peggy's boyfriend that goes off to Guatemala for

1237
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:07,360
her little Yeah, as the.

1238
01:05:10,039 --> 01:05:11,880
Speaker 6: Guatemala I wonder why.

1239
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:15,440
Speaker 2: He chose that, like, of all the places or of.

1240
01:05:15,519 --> 01:05:17,559
Speaker 7: All the like, I don't know, maybe with popular destination

1241
01:05:17,679 --> 01:05:21,360
at that time. Yea, there, And it wasn't that long either,

1242
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:23,480
wasn't It wasn't like a deployment for like how long?

1243
01:05:23,599 --> 01:05:30,239
I don't remember now. It was also a good role actually,

1244
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:32,159
all the dudes in this. It's kind of a good

1245
01:05:32,199 --> 01:05:35,280
role for almost everybody because there's really very little male

1246
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,280
nudity in this, Like you don't really see anything of Alan,

1247
01:05:38,599 --> 01:05:43,280
you don't see anything of of Andy, and you see

1248
01:05:44,039 --> 01:05:47,000
a little rear nudity from Paul Barrett, oh yeah, with

1249
01:05:47,119 --> 01:05:50,840
his giant afro. The only other one that I recognized

1250
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:53,679
him anything was Andy Mitchell, and he plays you know,

1251
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:57,599
the the suburban dad with a with a like a

1252
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:01,679
kinky streak. He he was in Teaser, which is another

1253
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:05,519
many many Conde distributed movie, probably Greg Valtierra, which is

1254
01:06:05,679 --> 01:06:08,480
very good and actually we should cover that because I'm

1255
01:06:08,519 --> 01:06:12,320
friends with the cinematographer and editor of that and he

1256
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:14,360
would do an interview about that one. But he plays

1257
01:06:14,639 --> 01:06:16,960
Renee Bond's husband in that where Becky Sharp is like

1258
01:06:17,039 --> 01:06:19,440
sexually assaulted and then is taken in by Rene Bond

1259
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:20,199
and Andy Mitchell.

1260
01:06:20,559 --> 01:06:20,719
Speaker 10: Oh.

1261
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 7: Interesting, that's a very good that's a that's a good one.

1262
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:25,119
I quite like that one.

1263
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:25,599
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1264
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, characters like a smut novelist. I like that little touch.

1265
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:30,199
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1266
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 7: The only other cast member I was wondering about is

1267
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:34,920
Trim Randall is the waiter, and I wondered if that

1268
01:06:35,039 --> 01:06:37,440
was Roland Miller in a cameo because it is it

1269
01:06:37,599 --> 01:06:41,159
is a weird almost anagram of Roland Miller rim Randall.

1270
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:45,719
Speaker 2: He has that line about let's he say all nice

1271
01:06:45,719 --> 01:06:48,239
little bracelets he got there where he's talking about our.

1272
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:50,000
Speaker 7: Oh yeah mancuffs.

1273
01:06:50,159 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 2: Oh he's just gonna say yeah. He's like, did George

1274
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:55,920
Raft give you those? George Raft?

1275
01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:57,119
Speaker 1: Like that.

1276
01:06:58,679 --> 01:07:03,000
Speaker 6: Roland Miller is in uh Panama Red and he has

1277
01:07:03,039 --> 01:07:06,119
a you know, semi prominent. Is that the same guy?

1278
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 7: I have to rewatch Panama Red to watch him. Well,

1279
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:12,079
Davis is in that too. It's like it's basically the

1280
01:07:12,159 --> 01:07:15,199
gangs all here, Bob Bob just asking all of his

1281
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:17,559
friends to show up and pitch in with this movie.

1282
01:07:18,559 --> 01:07:22,159
Speaker 6: PG rated Weed Musical. Uh yeah, this thing.

1283
01:07:24,159 --> 01:07:25,519
Speaker 7: Panama Panama Red.

1284
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:26,559
Speaker 2: Ok.

1285
01:07:27,559 --> 01:07:30,519
Speaker 6: She doesn't like it. I I adore it, but I

1286
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:35,119
need it. I understand though, I get it. I totally

1287
01:07:35,159 --> 01:07:37,480
get it. I just ill it.

1288
01:07:38,039 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 7: Well, what it kind of reminds me of is like

1289
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:43,239
Milligan's Compass Rose, where it's very inside baseball and it's

1290
01:07:43,239 --> 01:07:45,320
really an excuse for him to like do something with

1291
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:48,000
his friends. And Panama Red. It's kind of like that

1292
01:07:48,119 --> 01:07:49,880
for me, and I watched it before. I was really

1293
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:52,280
a huge Bob Chin guy. Like I I saw it

1294
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:55,039
when I was familiar with the the Johnny Watch stuff,

1295
01:07:55,039 --> 01:07:57,320
which I've only I only like one of those films,

1296
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:01,199
so I think I've watched now. I'd probably like it more,

1297
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:04,559
I think for sure. But that's interesting. I need to

1298
01:08:04,559 --> 01:08:06,679
compare that because Roland Miller died in nineteen eighty one,

1299
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:08,880
like he died a long time ago. When I did

1300
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:11,360
find his widow because Bob told me he died years ago,

1301
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:14,679
and he said, I think I think his widow was

1302
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:17,319
living somewhere in California, so I did just find her.

1303
01:08:18,399 --> 01:08:22,720
But yeah, he died actually not long before Walt Davis died,

1304
01:08:23,199 --> 01:08:25,000
while Davis died around the same time.

1305
01:08:25,199 --> 01:08:27,880
Speaker 6: Oh I've been gone for that long.

1306
01:08:28,199 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, I think Walt Davis died early early eighties

1307
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:34,560
because I did research into that because what did I

1308
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:38,039
just watch, Oh, Substitution, which was his first movie where

1309
01:08:38,319 --> 01:08:40,439
it was shot at like it was shot at a

1310
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:48,279
car radio or a stereo store, and it was you know,

1311
01:08:48,399 --> 01:08:51,640
that was Walt's background, was working in stereo equipment. And

1312
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:54,479
so I found a really good article where it discussed

1313
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:56,600
that he died and someone else inherited his business, like

1314
01:08:56,800 --> 01:08:59,039
in the early eighties, and then it was purchased in

1315
01:08:59,079 --> 01:09:03,159
nineteen ninety one, a bigger conglomerate for stereo equipment. So yeah,

1316
01:09:03,319 --> 01:09:05,199
rip Walt Davis and Roland Miller.

1317
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:09,279
Speaker 6: Crazy little bracelet you got there, Georgia, give it to you.

1318
01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:16,039
Speaker 7: Thank you, sir, like some champagnes Luke.

1319
01:09:17,079 --> 01:09:21,560
Speaker 2: Well, I know we touched on that opening masturbation sequence,

1320
01:09:22,119 --> 01:09:26,479
but there are several sequences that I think you could

1321
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:32,840
say are just as good. And that mutual masturbation sequence

1322
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:35,720
that's when that happened. I was like, Okay, I'm watching

1323
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:39,079
something different here, Like this is different than a lot

1324
01:09:39,119 --> 01:09:42,279
of sexploitation I've seen because of that editing, Like he

1325
01:09:42,399 --> 01:09:46,520
spent his time editing that to the music, and what

1326
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:50,880
you see or don't see is really interesting, like how

1327
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:54,279
he frames it like that is very particular. What are

1328
01:09:54,319 --> 01:09:56,439
your guys' thoughts on that scene or what the first

1329
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:57,119
time you saw it?

1330
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:01,119
Speaker 6: Well? Yeah, like you, I I thought, wow, that that's

1331
01:10:01,239 --> 01:10:03,800
something I haven't seen, and I said, what a clever

1332
01:10:04,039 --> 01:10:08,680
way to get away with some undeniably filthy material. I

1333
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:10,760
mean that's pretty. I mean, like you know what you

1334
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:13,079
see there is like wow, that's nutty, and I didn't

1335
01:10:13,079 --> 01:10:16,960
see anything at all, but yes, it's it's the it's

1336
01:10:17,039 --> 01:10:19,520
the cutting to the music and the building of the tension,

1337
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:23,159
and you really feel that because you get the impression

1338
01:10:23,239 --> 01:10:26,159
that Peggy Church is just having a great time. You know,

1339
01:10:26,199 --> 01:10:29,479
I mean either she's either she's not faking it or

1340
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:32,159
she's just a great actress, one of the two, because

1341
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:35,800
you feel like you're in that moment with them and

1342
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:38,680
it just makes it. That's what makes that movie so

1343
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:41,399
special in almost all the encounters is that's sort of

1344
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:42,119
how it feels.

1345
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:45,880
Speaker 7: I think every vignette is really special. I have a

1346
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:49,199
phrase that I like you so like in terms of

1347
01:10:49,319 --> 01:10:51,039
I think I've reviewed a lot of Joe Gage stuff

1348
01:10:51,039 --> 01:10:53,600
on letterbox and it's stuff that I watched when I

1349
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:55,640
was much younger. But I was like, well, I bought

1350
01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:57,079
the steved in two thousand and six and it took

1351
01:10:57,159 --> 01:10:59,520
me two weeks to get through it, which is, you know,

1352
01:11:00,279 --> 01:11:02,880
use your imagination or not. But this is one of

1353
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:06,119
those scenarios where it's like you, if they have this

1354
01:11:06,239 --> 01:11:08,920
on video, you would be taking your time with this,

1355
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:11,880
Like it would not be something that you're going to

1356
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:14,479
power through. You would be taking your time with this

1357
01:11:15,239 --> 01:11:18,159
because it's just an embarrassment of erotic riches like every

1358
01:11:18,239 --> 01:11:20,720
scene is good and it's it's interesting because a lot

1359
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:24,039
of exploitation movies have that scenario where there's like a

1360
01:11:24,159 --> 01:11:26,640
centerpiece and then there's a lot of other stuff around

1361
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:30,720
it to meet the criteria of the of the genre.

1362
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:32,520
So like there's got to be a lesbian scene, there's

1363
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:33,960
got to be a kink scene, and there's got to

1364
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:36,680
be a group scene. This eliminates the group scene. The

1365
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:39,960
lesbian scene is super well done. The kink scene is

1366
01:11:40,079 --> 01:11:42,600
unlike any other. There's no I mean there's actually there's

1367
01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:45,479
a one and a half kink scenes because there's the spanking,

1368
01:11:46,159 --> 01:11:48,720
which is over pretty quickly and it's more playful, and

1369
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:52,960
then there's the sort of light bondage. But it toys

1370
01:11:53,039 --> 01:11:57,439
with those expectations by not and it makes it not predictable,

1371
01:11:57,920 --> 01:11:59,800
you know, because I think anyone going to a film

1372
01:11:59,880 --> 01:12:01,039
like this is like, well, I know what I'm going

1373
01:12:01,119 --> 01:12:03,680
to get, and this defies all those expectations by not

1374
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:06,840
giving you what you expect from something, especially this late

1375
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:09,479
into the genre. Yeah, but Love Garden is the same

1376
01:12:09,560 --> 01:12:11,800
way because it's it's Love Garden is a cast of

1377
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:14,680
three people. There's very little sex in it, and what

1378
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:18,439
is there is very graphic. It's essentially work graphic than this.

1379
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:22,239
I think it is Linda yorke Is. I think it's

1380
01:12:22,279 --> 01:12:24,600
her most graphic, like she never did hardcore, but it

1381
01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:29,359
gets very close. But yeah, I mean it's primarily lesbian

1382
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:32,960
sex and then there's you know, the sex imadjacent yukon,

1383
01:12:33,119 --> 01:12:36,479
but it's really not that's I think that's why Hagrid said,

1384
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:39,039
it's interesting to have someone who's very much an outsider

1385
01:12:39,119 --> 01:12:42,159
to the genre coming from a background of like being

1386
01:12:42,239 --> 01:12:45,319
a john Ford person and being a film person, coming

1387
01:12:45,399 --> 01:12:48,600
into this, into this industry and kind of you know,

1388
01:12:49,039 --> 01:12:51,239
trying to do something different and succeeding because a lot

1389
01:12:51,239 --> 01:12:53,119
of people would try something different and it wouldn't work

1390
01:12:53,359 --> 01:12:57,000
because they don't understand what's expected. And so in his case,

1391
01:12:57,119 --> 01:12:59,039
it's like he knew what was expected and they said, well,

1392
01:12:59,119 --> 01:13:01,039
let's let's let's play with this a little bit.

1393
01:13:01,359 --> 01:13:04,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to ask you about the end of

1394
01:13:04,279 --> 01:13:06,439
this scene because I've seen it several times. I'm not

1395
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:09,920
sure what's going on with the editing here. I'm we're

1396
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:12,640
going to get graphic. This is a graphic movie. So

1397
01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:18,039
at the end, she's got the tissues that she's his

1398
01:13:18,159 --> 01:13:21,560
handkerchief that she has taken from him, and I can't

1399
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:28,000
tell where she's depositing his his leavings, if it's if

1400
01:13:28,079 --> 01:13:31,279
she's catching it in the handkerchief or in her mouth,

1401
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:35,000
because at the end she like spits something into the handkerchief,

1402
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:37,239
but we don't see her mouth going down.

1403
01:13:38,239 --> 01:13:41,960
Speaker 6: I think it's that he I think it's that he

1404
01:13:42,239 --> 01:13:46,199
ejaculates into the tissue, and I thought she ate it. Okay,

1405
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:48,560
that's what you see it dripped down or you see

1406
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:49,600
it drip down, right.

1407
01:13:50,199 --> 01:13:52,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I was like, that must be what's happening.

1408
01:13:52,239 --> 01:13:53,680
But then in the back of my mind, like, there's

1409
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:55,560
no way that's what he's showing here.

1410
01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:57,199
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah he is, that's what I thought.

1411
01:13:57,359 --> 01:13:58,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, thank you.

1412
01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:03,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, even she wants to be able to it's very Yeah,

1413
01:14:04,039 --> 01:14:09,199
it's like she she really gets experienced quite the education. Really,

1414
01:14:09,439 --> 01:14:12,279
it's just kind of like yeah, she's like well you

1415
01:14:12,359 --> 01:14:13,520
know yeah.

1416
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:15,720
Speaker 2: And then the best part is that she like kisses

1417
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:18,439
him right after, and it's like, Okay, this is you're

1418
01:14:18,479 --> 01:14:20,399
going away party. You're going to got a mall.

1419
01:14:20,680 --> 01:14:24,760
Speaker 7: Snowballing too, Like yeah, like there's snowballing in this going

1420
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:26,239
before people knew what that phrase was.

1421
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:30,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god, okay, all right, thank you for

1422
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:31,119
clarifying that.

1423
01:14:31,279 --> 01:14:34,159
Speaker 7: For me, I was like, you could always watch it again.

1424
01:14:34,199 --> 01:14:37,039
You know you want to go back and watch the

1425
01:14:37,079 --> 01:14:39,359
scene again. You know it's so well done.

1426
01:14:40,039 --> 01:14:44,039
Speaker 2: Yeah all right, Well if you guys ever see another scene? Yeah,

1427
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:47,039
what where is there another softcore movie with snowballing? And

1428
01:14:47,199 --> 01:14:51,319
for sure you're not going to find one like now.

1429
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:56,199
Speaker 5: And let me have my own way. Remember this had

1430
01:14:56,279 --> 01:14:59,079
the last meet three months too, and a group. It's

1431
01:14:59,239 --> 01:15:05,119
just as horny as guy. Oh him, your handkerchief, h

1432
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:06,439
your handkerchief.

1433
01:15:09,479 --> 01:15:11,520
Speaker 2: I guess we kind of glossed over, like the whole

1434
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:16,720
character of the boy that she's babysitting, like the depiction

1435
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:20,960
of him is I guess I always hold the guy.

1436
01:15:21,159 --> 01:15:23,960
Speaker 7: She is a little fruity, and he is a little fruity.

1437
01:15:24,039 --> 01:15:26,239
Speaker 2: I always assumed he was kind of like supposed to

1438
01:15:26,279 --> 01:15:29,920
be autistic. But is that how you guys read it?

1439
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:31,000
Speaker 10: No?

1440
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:32,960
Speaker 7: I did not read it that way.

1441
01:15:34,159 --> 01:15:37,279
Speaker 2: Interesting because he's fourteen years old, but he's like, you

1442
01:15:37,359 --> 01:15:40,000
know the nose in the book kid who just the

1443
01:15:40,079 --> 01:15:44,319
way he talks and the way he goes to his fruity.

1444
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:47,479
Speaker 7: I think he's just you know, it kind of reminds

1445
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:51,199
me of like Casey Donovan, Misty Beethoven, where his ky

1446
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:54,560
like you know, it's it becomes a challenge for her

1447
01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:57,880
to like seduce this guy because that is kind of

1448
01:15:58,039 --> 01:15:59,960
an interesting angle to it, because it's like, yeah, he's

1449
01:16:00,039 --> 01:16:06,479
little fruity. He seems very on the Swiss side, and

1450
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:10,279
uh so that's why I think we're talking about that interesting.

1451
01:16:11,239 --> 01:16:14,159
Speaker 6: Yes, she calls him, Yeah, she calls him a sissy

1452
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:17,840
and yeah, right, and that's sort of the code what

1453
01:16:18,199 --> 01:16:18,399
you know.

1454
01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:22,079
Speaker 2: I sort of got the say, I never got that

1455
01:16:22,199 --> 01:16:24,039
impression that he was Oh are you kidding?

1456
01:16:24,279 --> 01:16:28,359
Speaker 7: Oh I absolutely yes, the way yeah, like he's he's fussy,

1457
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:31,119
he has is kind of a feminine.

1458
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:33,520
Speaker 2: But he has no problem like getting it up for her,

1459
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:35,640
and he talks about thinking about her.

1460
01:16:36,279 --> 01:16:39,199
Speaker 7: So it's like, I don't know him as sexuality as

1461
01:16:39,199 --> 01:16:39,800
a spectrum.

1462
01:16:41,119 --> 01:16:42,600
Speaker 2: I think he's on them.

1463
01:16:42,920 --> 01:16:45,159
Speaker 7: Maybe it's just peggage Church, No, I think it's I

1464
01:16:45,239 --> 01:16:47,880
think that impression maybe because he's played by obviously an

1465
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:51,359
older person who was obviously not fourteen. He looks like

1466
01:16:51,439 --> 01:16:54,399
he's like twenty eight. He looks much older than everybody.

1467
01:16:56,359 --> 01:16:57,920
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I don't know.

1468
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:00,920
Speaker 6: It looks like I think, well, I don't know if

1469
01:17:01,279 --> 01:17:02,880
what the thing I get from it. And there's no

1470
01:17:02,960 --> 01:17:04,920
way y'all would y'all would know this unless you're just

1471
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:07,119
way into indie rock. But there's a band called the

1472
01:17:07,239 --> 01:17:11,359
Chainsaw Kittens and their lead singer his name is Tyson Mead.

1473
01:17:11,800 --> 01:17:18,800
And he looks exactly like Tyson Mead, and and Tyson

1474
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:22,640
Mead is is gay. And and you know, so when

1475
01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:25,000
I see him in that movie when he taught me

1476
01:17:25,159 --> 01:17:27,760
like you see sounds, and looks just like Tyson Mead.

1477
01:17:28,039 --> 01:17:30,880
So that's sort of wild. There's sort of this thing

1478
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:33,680
about that. But yes, now I sort of thought that

1479
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:38,520
he was gay but awkward and not really kind of sure.

1480
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:43,119
And she's and she's a dominant sexual force and that

1481
01:17:43,439 --> 01:17:43,760
sort of.

1482
01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:45,560
Speaker 10: No.

1483
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:49,640
Speaker 7: I mean, you know, we've had that conversation. We had

1484
01:17:49,680 --> 01:17:52,239
that conversation on our last episode about russ Meyer. Listen,

1485
01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:53,840
I don't know what I would do with a russ

1486
01:17:53,880 --> 01:17:56,520
Meyer woman if she did that to me, Bob Bardow

1487
01:17:57,039 --> 01:17:59,560
and she's just towering over me, I don't know what

1488
01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:01,239
I would do, you you know.

1489
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:05,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't, I don't. I don't think if he's

1490
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:07,840
if he's gay, then I don't think. I don't think

1491
01:18:07,880 --> 01:18:09,720
she would turn him straight. She'd just give him a

1492
01:18:10,039 --> 01:18:12,439
he'd have a good story to tell some later on

1493
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:15,680
down the line, right, you know my babysitter, you know,

1494
01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:17,840
you know what I feel, you.

1495
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:20,720
Speaker 7: Know, right when he's when he's married down the line

1496
01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:24,199
to his second husband, then he'll be like, yes, I

1497
01:18:24,279 --> 01:18:26,000
did have sex with the woman, well sort of, there

1498
01:18:26,079 --> 01:18:28,600
was my babysitter and I was in high school. Yeah,

1499
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:32,800
I definitely don't think it's a situation. Licorus Quartet is

1500
01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:35,039
that like, isn't the the son is gay? And Liquors

1501
01:18:35,119 --> 01:18:41,079
Quartet and doesn't she? Yeah, I think the Liquors Quartet

1502
01:18:41,119 --> 01:18:43,600
or the Tearrema connection is there because Tearima the son

1503
01:18:43,720 --> 01:18:44,880
is gay too, and that I believe.

1504
01:18:45,119 --> 01:18:48,319
Speaker 6: So there you go. That's the kind of Mark Haggard

1505
01:18:48,399 --> 01:18:49,479
making term move.

1506
01:18:50,880 --> 01:18:54,079
Speaker 7: Mark Haggard sent him a literate like, yeah, he's He's

1507
01:18:54,199 --> 01:18:58,239
definitely shown his influences there. Well, Liquorus Quartet is one

1508
01:18:58,279 --> 01:19:00,760
of the only Metsican movies that I actually like. It's

1509
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:06,439
that and Teresa Isabelle and I could wait Terry Douglas movie. Yeah,

1510
01:19:07,319 --> 01:19:09,520
what is what were you thinking it was. Yeah, Liquors

1511
01:19:09,560 --> 01:19:11,680
Quartet is the follow up to that.

1512
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:16,560
Speaker 2: You're talking about the liquorice movie, Pizza, Liquors Pizza.

1513
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:19,640
Speaker 7: I would never recommend a pt Anderson movie on this podcast.

1514
01:19:19,880 --> 01:19:22,680
Speaker 2: That's who I thought you were talking about, all right, No, I.

1515
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:24,640
Speaker 7: Wouldn't recommend Booge Knights on this podcast.

1516
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:29,840
Speaker 2: No, No, Patrick, that's a good segue. What are your

1517
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:30,960
thoughts on Bookie Knights.

1518
01:19:33,800 --> 01:19:34,880
Speaker 7: I still love.

1519
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:37,119
Speaker 6: Boogie Nights, and I still love pet Anderson even though

1520
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:41,640
you know it's it's not factual in in a lot

1521
01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:46,079
of ways. And you know, but you know, when I

1522
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:49,439
when I saw it in ninety seven, it was just,

1523
01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:52,399
you know, sort of just blew me away in terms

1524
01:19:52,439 --> 01:19:57,880
of the filmmaking, you know. But now that I know

1525
01:19:58,079 --> 01:20:01,760
much more about the subject matter, I mean, yeah, it doesn't.

1526
01:20:01,840 --> 01:20:05,439
None of it rings true except for the whole idea

1527
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:08,680
that a lot of times there was a very sort

1528
01:20:08,720 --> 01:20:12,239
of a familial connection with these people. That's still absolutely

1529
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:15,760
that still goes on today. And pt Anderson did get

1530
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:17,560
that part of it right, because I mean a lot

1531
01:20:17,640 --> 01:20:21,600
of his movies, especially early on, are about broken families

1532
01:20:21,640 --> 01:20:23,840
and family dysfunction. At least all the way up through

1533
01:20:24,840 --> 01:20:31,560
there will be blood. So you know, I don't I

1534
01:20:31,720 --> 01:20:35,520
don't dislike it. I really do. Still still like Bookie Knights.

1535
01:20:37,079 --> 01:20:39,800
Bob Bob has mixed mixed feelings, but he owns it

1536
01:20:40,479 --> 01:20:45,279
in his collection, so so and and I get it.

1537
01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:48,760
I get it because you know, yeah, they Bob Bob

1538
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:51,479
or a filmmaker of that caliber was not shooting that

1539
01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:54,199
kind of movie in nineteen seventy seven.

1540
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:58,359
Speaker 7: I mean right, sounds like a Rittazener production, yeah, or

1541
01:20:58,439 --> 01:21:03,439
Bob Kirk production. Yeah, not not production. Bopen was making

1542
01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:05,079
Dick Aldridge movies at that.

1543
01:21:05,079 --> 01:21:07,239
Speaker 6: Point, right, that's a right, then, that's right. Then a

1544
01:21:07,279 --> 01:21:08,760
Steckler you're talking about.

1545
01:21:08,560 --> 01:21:12,279
Speaker 7: Them, Yes, exactly, one cameraman and a sound guy.

1546
01:21:12,439 --> 01:21:12,800
Speaker 6: That's it.

1547
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:13,640
Speaker 7: I don't think so.

1548
01:21:13,960 --> 01:21:14,000
Speaker 10: No.

1549
01:21:16,039 --> 01:21:18,640
Speaker 7: I didn't intro for the movie for Mahoning Drive in.

1550
01:21:18,760 --> 01:21:21,920
Actually they asked me to do an intro, and I

1551
01:21:22,399 --> 01:21:22,600
like it.

1552
01:21:23,039 --> 01:21:23,720
Speaker 10: I do like it.

1553
01:21:24,039 --> 01:21:26,680
Speaker 7: I just wish it was more accurate. But you're right.

1554
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:28,680
I think the big thing, big takeaway from it for

1555
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:30,319
me whenever I watch it is the fact that I

1556
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:32,960
like the characters and I like that they have that

1557
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:37,479
connection that kind of saves them from being completely broken.

1558
01:21:39,439 --> 01:21:41,640
Which I think is a lot of people in the industry,

1559
01:21:41,800 --> 01:21:43,880
and I see that all the time. When people reconnect

1560
01:21:43,880 --> 01:21:46,279
to have and talked in years from the industry, it's

1561
01:21:46,319 --> 01:21:51,039
always like reconnected with like a long lost family member. Yeah, yeah,

1562
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:54,319
because that's only a small amount of people that did this, right,

1563
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:57,920
So it's like and it's something that they can talk

1564
01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:00,359
to somebody about and they'll understand because they through it

1565
01:22:00,439 --> 01:22:02,680
as well, which is which is terrible because that's what

1566
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:04,640
like trauma survivors have in common.

1567
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:05,720
Speaker 9: But this is not.

1568
01:22:07,479 --> 01:22:09,640
Speaker 7: It's not not necessarily trauma in the case of the

1569
01:22:09,680 --> 01:22:12,279
adult industry. In some cases, yes, but I mean it's

1570
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:14,760
just the fact that you went through something like that,

1571
01:22:15,439 --> 01:22:16,800
which is very uncommon.

1572
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:20,800
Speaker 6: Very unique time, you know, just you know, something that's

1573
01:22:20,920 --> 01:22:23,479
just not going to ever be recreated again. I mean

1574
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:26,920
they are like you know the you know, the test

1575
01:22:27,039 --> 01:22:29,279
pilots or you know, people that just they go through

1576
01:22:29,359 --> 01:22:34,199
something that's so rarefied. And yeah, I've noticed that too,

1577
01:22:34,359 --> 01:22:38,239
you know, the interactions I see with uh, you know,

1578
01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:42,840
retired performers and their in their you know, twilight years. Yeah,

1579
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:46,039
there's just something about that connection they have that's so

1580
01:22:46,319 --> 01:22:49,439
unique that you know, that's their specifically.

1581
01:22:50,159 --> 01:22:54,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, Veronica hart has a cameo in that, right, she's.

1582
01:22:54,079 --> 01:22:59,119
Speaker 7: On the judges. The judge Nina Hartley does too, and

1583
01:22:59,279 --> 01:23:00,319
I think that's uh.

1584
01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:03,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, Veronica Heart did. Actually, I gotta say she did

1585
01:23:04,039 --> 01:23:06,239
work with Bob but later on in his New Era

1586
01:23:07,119 --> 01:23:09,560
movie she did not do a sex role. But she

1587
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:13,000
comes in the I Know Hard what was it? The

1588
01:23:13,640 --> 01:23:16,960
Magnum Love his first Peter Magnum movie. She's in that,

1589
01:23:17,119 --> 01:23:20,159
she's got a small cameo. And then she's also in

1590
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:25,960
Blonde Fury, which is another uh Peter Magnum movie, I believe,

1591
01:23:26,159 --> 01:23:29,800
and that one also has Jim South. That one has

1592
01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:32,720
Henri Pueschard in it, so it's that's a fun one.

1593
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:35,039
But yeah, they that they never worked together where she

1594
01:23:35,279 --> 01:23:38,840
was doing her you know, like she wasn't that's long retired.

1595
01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:41,279
She was working for a VC BCE.

1596
01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:42,920
Speaker 10: A v C A.

1597
01:23:43,479 --> 01:23:47,359
Speaker 7: Yeah, she's in VCA stuff. Actually, I just thought of something,

1598
01:23:48,239 --> 01:23:50,520
something not mentioned in Bob's book, just related to our

1599
01:23:50,600 --> 01:23:54,000
last episode where we talked about russ Meyer. Bob ten

1600
01:23:54,119 --> 01:23:56,880
directed russ Meyer as an actor and all the way in,

1601
01:23:57,840 --> 01:24:00,239
but he doesn't discuss it in the books. I don't

1602
01:24:00,239 --> 01:24:01,840
know if he had any stories about russ Meyer, But

1603
01:24:01,960 --> 01:24:03,000
have you talked to him about that?

1604
01:24:03,439 --> 01:24:03,600
Speaker 9: Yeah?

1605
01:24:03,680 --> 01:24:06,520
Speaker 6: I asked him about that, and he said that, you know,

1606
01:24:06,600 --> 01:24:08,800
he was just kind of a gruff, sort of semi

1607
01:24:08,920 --> 01:24:12,199
humorless guy and I and I sort of figured that

1608
01:24:12,319 --> 01:24:15,119
would be the case, seeing that russ Meyer had such

1609
01:24:15,159 --> 01:24:18,760
a sort of disdain for hardcore porn and he's now

1610
01:24:18,920 --> 01:24:20,600
I mean, and when they make all the way in

1611
01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:23,800
that's what eighty four russ Meyer is basically, you had

1612
01:24:23,960 --> 01:24:27,119
He's forced out of the business only five years prior,

1613
01:24:27,399 --> 01:24:31,159
so you know, I mean, got a day's pay or

1614
01:24:31,199 --> 01:24:32,239
whatever he got for it.

1615
01:24:32,399 --> 01:24:32,439
Speaker 10: That.

1616
01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:34,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I don't think Bob had any sort

1617
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:38,119
of he didn't have any sort of great stories that

1618
01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:40,479
I sort of understood that was probably going to be

1619
01:24:40,560 --> 01:24:44,199
the case. I'm glad that that image exists of the

1620
01:24:44,319 --> 01:24:46,279
two of them sitting next to each other on a

1621
01:24:46,840 --> 01:24:51,359
on a on a fake on a plane set, you know, right.

1622
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:54,800
Speaker 7: So yeah, yeah, I also thought that was interesting. I

1623
01:24:54,840 --> 01:24:56,600
didn't know. I didn't even I was like, how did

1624
01:24:56,680 --> 01:24:58,680
he even get involved with this? And did Candy Samples

1625
01:24:58,720 --> 01:25:01,079
call in a favor? It was just like it was

1626
01:25:01,279 --> 01:25:05,800
very unusual casting. But it's a nice surprise, but.

1627
01:25:06,199 --> 01:25:07,920
Speaker 6: Well, and also if you look on that plane, you

1628
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:09,680
see Bob Boss he is on there.

1629
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:11,279
Speaker 7: He's yeah, that's right.

1630
01:25:11,720 --> 01:25:13,840
Speaker 6: And so I don't know what. I don't know what, like,

1631
01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:16,760
I don't know what was going on. Maybe that there

1632
01:25:16,760 --> 01:25:19,239
were they were. I forgot if I even asked him

1633
01:25:19,239 --> 01:25:23,640
how he got involved. But yeah, it's just maybe it

1634
01:25:23,720 --> 01:25:24,359
was because.

1635
01:25:26,079 --> 01:25:28,479
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, the stories of that production are crazy

1636
01:25:28,760 --> 01:25:32,600
because Candy doing, Candy doing trying to do a scene

1637
01:25:32,640 --> 01:25:34,520
with the guy who was her husband at the time,

1638
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:37,319
who then stole all over money and ran off, who

1639
01:25:37,760 --> 01:25:40,640
could not stay hard because he was not a performer,

1640
01:25:41,039 --> 01:25:41,600
Pat Romano.

1641
01:25:42,680 --> 01:25:45,920
Speaker 6: That's what caused Bob to retire, kind of quit basically

1642
01:25:46,039 --> 01:25:48,600
after that. He threw his hands up after that final

1643
01:25:48,680 --> 01:25:51,000
scene because it was just it took him forever to

1644
01:25:51,000 --> 01:25:54,399
shoot it because that guy was just not getting it up.

1645
01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:56,800
And then you know, Candy, she was exclusive to him

1646
01:25:56,880 --> 01:26:00,640
and wouldn't do it with anybody else, no stuntcock right exactly,

1647
01:26:02,159 --> 01:26:05,399
they were betied. And that's such a bummer because that

1648
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:08,319
scene is actually really good. That transition into that final

1649
01:26:08,399 --> 01:26:10,960
scene is really good. That yeah, Bob had sort of

1650
01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:12,920
had enough and kind of quit for the first time.

1651
01:26:13,119 --> 01:26:15,640
He came back. Yeah, soon later, But I mean, but yeah.

1652
01:26:15,960 --> 01:26:19,800
Speaker 2: That's interesting, Like did Bob ever consider doing going back

1653
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:22,479
to softcore or doing something non hardcore?

1654
01:26:23,159 --> 01:26:28,239
Speaker 6: Yeah, he did. When he retired in basically in eighty seven,

1655
01:26:29,800 --> 01:26:32,319
he went to Hawaii and lived there for a while,

1656
01:26:32,359 --> 01:26:34,279
but then they moved to Albuquerque, New Mexico, where he

1657
01:26:34,399 --> 01:26:38,479
was a camera salesman. But he got the idea to

1658
01:26:38,720 --> 01:26:44,479
make a movie with his then wife, Debbie. She wrote

1659
01:26:44,479 --> 01:26:47,359
a script and it was this two hander for these

1660
01:26:47,720 --> 01:26:51,039
Peggy I think Peggy Sterling was one of the actresses,

1661
01:26:51,119 --> 01:26:58,000
and another old old actress, old Western actress, and they

1662
01:26:58,279 --> 01:27:01,560
wrote this script and these two gals actually signed on

1663
01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:04,680
to do it. But then the producer who had talked

1664
01:27:04,720 --> 01:27:06,399
about and we got the funds for it that he

1665
01:27:06,720 --> 01:27:09,720
sort of had become over committed, so that fell through.

1666
01:27:10,479 --> 01:27:13,159
But the guy that ran the camera store that Bob

1667
01:27:13,279 --> 01:27:16,359
worked at, said, hey, why don't we go ahead and

1668
01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:19,520
just why don't we scale everything down and we'll make

1669
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:22,399
a movie together or whatever. So they made Bob and

1670
01:27:22,920 --> 01:27:25,640
his wife and this guy they made a movie in

1671
01:27:26,239 --> 01:27:29,439
Albuquerque in nineteen ninety one called Adobe Angels and it's

1672
01:27:29,439 --> 01:27:31,880
shot by Jack Remy. He came out. It shot in

1673
01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:35,640
black and white. It's a gorgeous movie. It's a drama.

1674
01:27:36,479 --> 01:27:39,760
Debbie chen Is the is the lead. She wrote the script.

1675
01:27:41,039 --> 01:27:43,119
You know, it's and it's really good. It got a

1676
01:27:43,199 --> 01:27:46,439
premiere or got one or two premiers, but it never

1677
01:27:46,520 --> 01:27:49,720
got picked up, so it never got released. And then

1678
01:27:49,800 --> 01:27:53,680
in ninety seven he and Debbie made a thirty five

1679
01:27:53,720 --> 01:27:59,399
millimeter movie together called an Unnatural Acts, which is really

1680
01:27:59,479 --> 01:28:03,560
kind of annoy lash thriller, and Debbie again as the lead.

1681
01:28:03,720 --> 01:28:06,800
She gets a co director credit on this one, and

1682
01:28:06,880 --> 01:28:09,640
they were separated at this point, but she brought him

1683
01:28:09,680 --> 01:28:13,079
in to direct. All of the thirty five millimeter camera

1684
01:28:13,119 --> 01:28:17,600
and all the crew was pretty much UCLA students. But

1685
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:22,239
it never really quite got finished. It never. It never,

1686
01:28:22,359 --> 01:28:25,760
I think, went through very many passes on the editing bay,

1687
01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:28,880
and I think what exists of it is a work

1688
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:32,159
print cut on VHS that's about one hundred and seventeen

1689
01:28:32,199 --> 01:28:35,920
minutes long, and it's really you know, I mean, the

1690
01:28:36,079 --> 01:28:38,199
ending is what it is. But there's some good stuff

1691
01:28:38,239 --> 01:28:40,319
in it. For sure. It shows what Bob could do

1692
01:28:41,039 --> 01:28:44,039
with some money and some equipment. But then it was

1693
01:28:44,399 --> 01:28:47,880
soon after that that he got rope back into the

1694
01:28:48,119 --> 01:28:50,720
hardcore business because he needed the money pay for his

1695
01:28:50,840 --> 01:28:56,079
kids college basically, and Debbie was helpful and stewarding him

1696
01:28:56,439 --> 01:28:59,000
into the business, even though at that point they were divorced.

1697
01:29:00,079 --> 01:29:02,640
Speaker 2: By that point, yeah, the business was very different, but

1698
01:29:02,840 --> 01:29:05,640
I could see him being adaptable for sure. It's a

1699
01:29:05,960 --> 01:29:08,399
video or digital Yeah.

1700
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:11,319
Speaker 6: Yeah, he had made some shot on video stuff in

1701
01:29:12,039 --> 01:29:14,840
the mid eighties. Of course, the difference in quality is

1702
01:29:14,960 --> 01:29:16,680
much different by the time he gets the ninety nine,

1703
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:20,239
two thousand, yea and whatnot. So, but yes, the business

1704
01:29:20,319 --> 01:29:23,880
had changed quite a bit. But Nina Hartley was also

1705
01:29:24,199 --> 01:29:27,039
part of the crew that helped him plug him back

1706
01:29:27,119 --> 01:29:30,239
in with Adam and Eve and then with Wicked. But

1707
01:29:30,319 --> 01:29:33,199
then once he got with New Era, which was sort

1708
01:29:33,199 --> 01:29:36,720
of his label with a bunch of Vietnamese and Chinese

1709
01:29:37,079 --> 01:29:40,279
Americans in LA and he made about I guess about

1710
01:29:40,319 --> 01:29:43,960
twenty eight titles on New Era. Those are actually a

1711
01:29:44,039 --> 01:29:45,680
lot of fun. I kind of have a good time

1712
01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:49,079
with those for what they are, I mean, But Debbie

1713
01:29:49,199 --> 01:29:50,760
was not in the picture at that time. But he

1714
01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:54,359
really got into the groove of making his old Private

1715
01:29:54,399 --> 01:29:57,960
Eye movies just dusting awful. Johnny Watt scripts and retooling

1716
01:29:58,039 --> 01:30:00,520
them and writing new ones and he was having a ball,

1717
01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:03,359
but you know that was and then that was it

1718
01:30:03,479 --> 01:30:03,760
for him.

1719
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:08,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, Bob's career reminds me a lot, to a certain

1720
01:30:08,640 --> 01:30:12,039
extent of Jess Francos, who, like he was still operating

1721
01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:15,600
to a certain point in the nineties and the even

1722
01:30:15,680 --> 01:30:19,760
the odds shooting abilities, Yeah, shooting.

1723
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:21,680
Speaker 6: On video and Russell had to shoot on video. I

1724
01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:24,119
mean some of that stuff. I mean Bob saw the

1725
01:30:24,399 --> 01:30:26,399
I mean Bob saw the whole thing. Bob was there

1726
01:30:26,439 --> 01:30:29,239
at the very beginning, and you know, and then he

1727
01:30:29,439 --> 01:30:32,720
was there when it contracted the first time with VHS

1728
01:30:32,840 --> 01:30:35,439
in the in the theater shutting down and moved video,

1729
01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:37,760
and then he came back just in time to see

1730
01:30:37,800 --> 01:30:40,319
it contract again with the Internet looming, because that's by

1731
01:30:40,319 --> 01:30:42,319
the time he shuts down about two thousand and three,

1732
01:30:42,880 --> 01:30:47,760
the Internet becomes pretty ubiquitous and changes everything to now

1733
01:30:48,159 --> 01:30:52,000
to what we see it as now. Basically, I'd love

1734
01:30:52,079 --> 01:30:53,119
to get Bob.

1735
01:30:53,199 --> 01:30:55,239
Speaker 2: It would have been great to get Bob and Jess

1736
01:30:55,319 --> 01:30:57,079
in a room together because I think they could have

1737
01:30:57,199 --> 01:31:00,560
shared how much they hated shooting like hardcore or because

1738
01:31:00,840 --> 01:31:03,680
there's some hardcore because Jess, I know he hated it

1739
01:31:03,760 --> 01:31:06,880
because it took so long to like to get things going.

1740
01:31:07,199 --> 01:31:11,079
You know, the performers weren't always uh ready to go,

1741
01:31:11,239 --> 01:31:12,960
and it's like, what, we got to shoot a movie here,

1742
01:31:13,399 --> 01:31:15,600
you know, Jess shot so fast, so it's just like

1743
01:31:15,760 --> 01:31:18,199
I can't deal with this anymore. So, Yeah, Jess left.

1744
01:31:18,319 --> 01:31:20,199
He didn't really do much hardcore after that.

1745
01:31:20,520 --> 01:31:23,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, thank god. Yeah, we have the ones we have.

1746
01:31:23,960 --> 01:31:24,640
Speaker 6: We're not good.

1747
01:31:26,520 --> 01:31:27,520
Speaker 7: Their paycheck movies.

1748
01:31:27,680 --> 01:31:31,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, it's great that Bob is still

1749
01:31:31,560 --> 01:31:35,399
around and his memories are still living on through you know,

1750
01:31:35,840 --> 01:31:38,720
people he's had discussions with. And I need to check

1751
01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:40,359
out that book for sure. I know both of you

1752
01:31:40,439 --> 01:31:43,840
guys have saved about it. It's just the one to

1753
01:31:43,920 --> 01:31:45,359
think they're different.

1754
01:31:45,640 --> 01:31:48,399
Speaker 7: This is this is both volumes and one Yeah, there's

1755
01:31:48,439 --> 01:31:51,960
two volumes, and it's how long is it? Because over

1756
01:31:52,079 --> 01:31:54,680
five hundred pages? It could have been five hundred pages more.

1757
01:31:54,920 --> 01:31:56,960
And I would have ate this up because there's stuff

1758
01:31:56,960 --> 01:32:00,239
that he's told me, and I'm sure you Patrick, they're

1759
01:32:00,319 --> 01:32:02,720
not It is not in the book that like he

1760
01:32:02,920 --> 01:32:05,319
I remember one of the first things I emailed him

1761
01:32:05,319 --> 01:32:07,279
about was I had I said can I ask you

1762
01:32:07,399 --> 01:32:09,479
questions about Tropic a Desire, which is one of his

1763
01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:14,159
personal favorites. He wrote me back a college essay of

1764
01:32:14,319 --> 01:32:18,560
answers to my question, so I have the full history

1765
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:21,039
of the production of that movie, which is not in

1766
01:32:21,159 --> 01:32:25,159
the book. So, I mean, he's very gracious with his time,

1767
01:32:25,439 --> 01:32:28,159
as you know, Patrick, and uh, if he knows the answer,

1768
01:32:28,239 --> 01:32:29,560
he'll tell you, yeah.

1769
01:32:30,159 --> 01:32:33,520
Speaker 6: For sure, Yeah he's yeah, he's He's told me some

1770
01:32:34,079 --> 01:32:37,359
anecdotal stuff I wouldn't you know. I'm not gonna say

1771
01:32:37,600 --> 01:32:41,319
he talked about sure Leek Carrol a little bit. Uh,

1772
01:32:43,439 --> 01:32:44,000
my favorite.

1773
01:32:47,000 --> 01:32:49,119
Speaker 7: See, there's the thing about Seductresses. He always told me,

1774
01:32:49,159 --> 01:32:50,880
I don't remember much about it. I shot it quick.

1775
01:32:51,039 --> 01:32:54,439
He remembers the Lisa Delao thing story, and he remembers

1776
01:32:54,479 --> 01:32:56,640
he did. He told me it as a favor. I

1777
01:32:56,760 --> 01:32:59,399
love Seductress. I was dying for more info about that movie.

1778
01:33:00,399 --> 01:33:03,279
Speaker 6: He I mean the he told I mean, he just

1779
01:33:03,359 --> 01:33:07,039
told me. He had a very very choice word carol,

1780
01:33:08,279 --> 01:33:10,920
you know, but his Yeah. I had to ask him

1781
01:33:10,920 --> 01:33:14,239
about it because what was I asking him about the Seductors?

1782
01:33:14,319 --> 01:33:17,319
Because I love it and I would feel that really

1783
01:33:17,359 --> 01:33:20,640
good something that he would be more proud of but yeah,

1784
01:33:20,760 --> 01:33:22,479
he I don't know what was going on with him

1785
01:33:22,520 --> 01:33:26,319
during that period, like from nineteen eighty one to the

1786
01:33:26,439 --> 01:33:29,479
time he starts making the higha Patiale movies, because all

1787
01:33:29,600 --> 01:33:33,319
that feels very kind of hazy, and and not just

1788
01:33:33,359 --> 01:33:36,039
because he was having a lot of setbacks after around

1789
01:33:36,079 --> 01:33:38,079
that time with his falling out with John Holmes and

1790
01:33:38,159 --> 01:33:42,319
then all the issues with Sadie, which yeah, so.

1791
01:33:43,159 --> 01:33:45,399
Speaker 7: That's such a bummer. And well that was something interesting

1792
01:33:45,479 --> 01:33:48,199
cause Sadie I'd only ever seen on the Vinegar Syndrome release.

1793
01:33:48,279 --> 01:33:50,520
And then he says in the book what the actual

1794
01:33:50,600 --> 01:33:55,000
runtime of the theatrical alone was before it was cut down.

1795
01:33:55,119 --> 01:33:57,239
I was like, oh, so there's even more footage than

1796
01:33:57,279 --> 01:33:59,359
like a theatrical print that is not on the DVD

1797
01:33:59,479 --> 01:34:02,600
that we don't know because there are no prints.

1798
01:34:03,079 --> 01:34:03,199
Speaker 11: Right.

1799
01:34:04,760 --> 01:34:06,840
Speaker 7: I love that movie. And that's another one Joe Ruben

1800
01:34:06,920 --> 01:34:09,039
vnder Grischndram loves too, so he was excited to put

1801
01:34:09,079 --> 01:34:12,560
it out. But yeah, that's one of those movies that's

1802
01:34:12,640 --> 01:34:13,359
like what could have been?

1803
01:34:13,880 --> 01:34:16,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would love to find Yeah, but of course

1804
01:34:16,399 --> 01:34:18,359
there's another one that you know, you know, you had

1805
01:34:18,399 --> 01:34:20,880
to you had to shut down production halfway through it.

1806
01:34:21,199 --> 01:34:24,079
Speaker 7: Right, because then my tam had to come in for funding, right, Yeah,

1807
01:34:24,079 --> 01:34:25,000
because Larry Price.

1808
01:34:25,239 --> 01:34:29,079
Speaker 6: Larry Price proved to not be as reliable as that's shocking.

1809
01:34:29,439 --> 01:34:31,399
I know that's shocking Larry Price.

1810
01:34:31,920 --> 01:34:34,920
Speaker 7: But yeah, Larry Price did Strangers for a Spinelli and

1811
01:34:34,960 --> 01:34:35,960
I was like, how did this turn out?

1812
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:36,199
Speaker 10: So? Well?

1813
01:34:36,239 --> 01:34:37,319
Speaker 7: Well, Larry Price involved.

1814
01:34:39,600 --> 01:34:41,880
Speaker 6: He was the line he was line line line direct

1815
01:34:41,960 --> 01:34:45,000
line producer or lines on on candy stripers. He's mombed

1816
01:34:45,600 --> 01:34:48,760
right because he was Yeah, he was mopped up. Yeah, sorry,

1817
01:34:49,439 --> 01:34:51,039
because he's also in Lips and McCain.

1818
01:34:51,520 --> 01:34:53,399
Speaker 2: My least favorite of that.

1819
01:34:53,640 --> 01:34:55,600
Speaker 6: You're I think Lips McCain.

1820
01:34:56,119 --> 01:34:57,800
Speaker 7: Oh no, I'm sorry. I don't like. I think tele

1821
01:34:57,920 --> 01:35:00,319
Fantasy I think is weaker. I like Lips and Macaine enough.

1822
01:35:00,359 --> 01:35:01,079
The acting is good.

1823
01:35:01,920 --> 01:35:04,760
Speaker 6: I love tell fantasy, but that's there's a yeah, I

1824
01:35:04,800 --> 01:35:07,399
think it makes me laugh, But I also like to

1825
01:35:07,439 --> 01:35:08,560
see a cleaned up copy.

1826
01:35:08,760 --> 01:35:11,199
Speaker 7: So yes, well, yeah, that's the thing. I guess we

1827
01:35:11,439 --> 01:35:13,720
can kind of touched on that at the beginning in

1828
01:35:13,840 --> 01:35:15,600
terms of like films that are available, because yeah, the

1829
01:35:15,640 --> 01:35:17,520
Tobolina is we have gorgeous of of all of that

1830
01:35:18,279 --> 01:35:22,199
stuff and that, yeah, and there's and yeah, I mean, well, yeah,

1831
01:35:22,279 --> 01:35:23,600
for some people, yes, thank god.

1832
01:35:24,119 --> 01:35:25,279
Speaker 6: No, I'm being facetious.

1833
01:35:25,960 --> 01:35:26,640
Speaker 7: Oh okay.

1834
01:35:26,680 --> 01:35:30,880
Speaker 6: I was like, I'm a fan, but yeah, I'm a fan,

1835
01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:32,239
but I understand.

1836
01:35:32,760 --> 01:35:36,079
Speaker 7: Right, But like, like, I want a clean up version

1837
01:35:36,159 --> 01:35:38,439
of Candy Strippers just because I don't want to have

1838
01:35:38,560 --> 01:35:42,159
to see the fisting scenes on VHS quality as Easter eggs.

1839
01:35:42,319 --> 01:35:44,760
Like I'd like to see the whole thing together. I'm

1840
01:35:44,800 --> 01:35:47,000
so glad we got Pizza Girls, and I'm so glad

1841
01:35:47,039 --> 01:35:50,720
that that has new legs now because of that Blu ray,

1842
01:35:50,800 --> 01:35:52,720
because i still see new reviews of that come out

1843
01:35:52,720 --> 01:35:54,800
and I'm like, oh, actually, this is really funny and

1844
01:35:54,880 --> 01:35:58,000
really good. It's like, yes, thank you, like you know, oh, yes,

1845
01:35:58,159 --> 01:36:02,159
it's terrific. I'm glad legs got attention. I love hot Legs.

1846
01:36:02,319 --> 01:36:07,439
I think that's really strong. But there's definitely movies tropical

1847
01:36:07,479 --> 01:36:12,119
desires that really emphasizes how strong that production was, for sure.

1848
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:13,640
Speaker 6: But yeah, there are just a lot.

1849
01:36:13,680 --> 01:36:14,279
Speaker 7: I got lucky.

1850
01:36:15,800 --> 01:36:17,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, That's what I was going to ask you, Patrick, Like,

1851
01:36:18,319 --> 01:36:20,560
what movie do you want to see of Bob's that

1852
01:36:20,720 --> 01:36:24,479
hasn't been given a new restoration yet, because there's still

1853
01:36:24,600 --> 01:36:25,159
quite a few.

1854
01:36:26,279 --> 01:36:30,720
Speaker 6: If I if I could wish it into existence, it

1855
01:36:30,760 --> 01:36:34,039
would probably be either tele fantasy or it would it

1856
01:36:34,159 --> 01:36:38,319
might be Blonde Fire, which Blonde Fire is in such

1857
01:36:38,439 --> 01:36:41,920
bad shape. All of those Johnny, most of the Johnny

1858
01:36:41,960 --> 01:36:45,560
Watt movies are not in the best of shape. That

1859
01:36:45,760 --> 01:36:48,079
has a lot to do with Armanitanian. That was his

1860
01:36:48,399 --> 01:36:52,520
That was his call to make substandard video copies. He

1861
01:36:52,640 --> 01:36:59,000
felt that that would deter piracy. Sure, you know, but

1862
01:37:00,159 --> 01:37:04,159
because of that, all of the Freeway film Johnny Watt

1863
01:37:04,319 --> 01:37:08,800
movies just don't look as good as they should. They're serviceable.

1864
01:37:09,359 --> 01:37:13,279
The transfers that are available or though they worked, are fine.

1865
01:37:14,079 --> 01:37:17,960
But Blonde Fire was expensive, and there's a lot of

1866
01:37:18,039 --> 01:37:21,880
production detail in that movie, and there's a lot of

1867
01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:24,199
really gorgeous stuff going on in that movie. It's not

1868
01:37:24,239 --> 01:37:27,239
one of my favorite Johnny Watt movies. In fact, it's

1869
01:37:27,279 --> 01:37:31,880
my least favorite from that era. But I guarantee you

1870
01:37:32,039 --> 01:37:34,000
I would probably like it a little better if it

1871
01:37:34,039 --> 01:37:36,239
were cleaned up and I could enjoy some of the

1872
01:37:37,239 --> 01:37:40,880
I think probably Bill Wolf probably is the production designer

1873
01:37:40,960 --> 01:37:43,159
on that, or John x ex Worthy, one of the two.

1874
01:37:43,680 --> 01:37:45,840
But I'm sure that, you know, I'm sure it would

1875
01:37:45,880 --> 01:37:49,199
look a lot better because as it is now, it's

1876
01:37:49,319 --> 01:37:52,279
cut up. There are jump like big jump cuts in it,

1877
01:37:52,560 --> 01:37:55,000
and it just it looks like trash. It's awful.

1878
01:37:55,520 --> 01:37:57,159
Speaker 2: Was it actually shot in South Africa?

1879
01:37:57,840 --> 01:38:04,560
Speaker 6: No shot Oakland where house. Everything was shot in Oakland warehouse?

1880
01:38:04,640 --> 01:38:06,680
I think yeah, yeah, And I mean it looks I

1881
01:38:06,760 --> 01:38:09,239
mean it's convincing though. It's like the thing about Bob stuff.

1882
01:38:09,279 --> 01:38:11,720
I mean he does a good job doing that. He

1883
01:38:11,880 --> 01:38:15,720
actually can create an actual mood and time and place

1884
01:38:15,840 --> 01:38:18,920
in his stuff. He's just got that ability. Those those

1885
01:38:18,960 --> 01:38:21,319
are his you know basic picked up from you know,

1886
01:38:21,520 --> 01:38:24,720
Joseph von Sternberg when he was in his class.

1887
01:38:25,279 --> 01:38:27,760
Speaker 7: My favorite is my favorite. Johnny Watt is the one

1888
01:38:27,800 --> 01:38:30,760
I want to see. Resorts is China Cat. It's basically

1889
01:38:31,079 --> 01:38:32,640
Johnny Wadd means Charlie's Angels.

1890
01:38:32,760 --> 01:38:34,439
Speaker 6: It's my favorite. Yeah, that's my favorite team.

1891
01:38:34,479 --> 01:38:39,199
Speaker 7: That's my favorite. And also the end shot is incredible awesome,

1892
01:38:39,279 --> 01:38:42,560
and I'm like, I must see this restored because that

1893
01:38:42,840 --> 01:38:47,199
is peak perfection, just like oh right. I think that's

1894
01:38:47,199 --> 01:38:48,720
why I like it said much because there's clearly a

1895
01:38:48,760 --> 01:38:51,199
lot of care put into that movie, which is interesting

1896
01:38:51,199 --> 01:38:54,039
because the one before it, which is Jake Pussycat, Right,

1897
01:38:54,359 --> 01:38:57,239
I don't like as much. Something about China Cat just works,

1898
01:38:58,640 --> 01:38:59,840
you know in all cylinders.

1899
01:39:00,720 --> 01:39:03,279
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's such a well, that's one of those

1900
01:39:03,319 --> 01:39:05,840
things that it is. It's Johnny Wadd meets Charlie's Angels,

1901
01:39:05,920 --> 01:39:08,880
which it's like that's something that seems to happen at

1902
01:39:08,920 --> 01:39:11,199
that specific time in the late seventies were you know,

1903
01:39:11,279 --> 01:39:13,840
in comic books and other things, these weird people are

1904
01:39:13,880 --> 01:39:18,159
getting like lumped together, like Muhammad Ali fights Superman and

1905
01:39:18,479 --> 01:39:22,119
it's stupid. Yeah, stupid stuff. I mean, I mean variety

1906
01:39:22,279 --> 01:39:25,119
shows are hot. I mean this is like really really

1907
01:39:25,319 --> 01:39:29,479
light light stuff. And I think that all of the

1908
01:39:29,560 --> 01:39:32,239
Johnny Wadd movies up to that point are you know,

1909
01:39:32,319 --> 01:39:34,079
they have a lot of serious stuff. There's a lot

1910
01:39:34,119 --> 01:39:35,720
of you know, they're deaths and there's a lot of this.

1911
01:39:36,119 --> 01:39:39,079
That movie is just nothing but frothy fun. It's these

1912
01:39:39,159 --> 01:39:41,960
gals trying to figure out where the Jade pussy Cat is.

1913
01:39:43,119 --> 01:39:44,720
Each one of them sleeps with them to try to

1914
01:39:44,760 --> 01:39:47,239
get what they want and none of you know, And

1915
01:39:47,319 --> 01:39:50,079
I love that one. I mean it's and it was

1916
01:39:50,119 --> 01:39:51,960
an afterthought, that's the thing about that one.

1917
01:39:52,359 --> 01:39:55,039
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's so much fun. The one one, and also

1918
01:39:55,159 --> 01:39:57,640
I think of the ones that are just not available.

1919
01:39:57,720 --> 01:40:00,239
I really need brother and Sister to show up. At

1920
01:40:00,319 --> 01:40:02,880
some point. I'm dying to see brother and sister because

1921
01:40:02,920 --> 01:40:05,479
that's the that's him and Roland Miller. It's like the

1922
01:40:05,720 --> 01:40:08,279
next It's essentially for me. It's kind of like the

1923
01:40:08,319 --> 01:40:10,720
next step after all American Girl, like I know Devil's

1924
01:40:10,760 --> 01:40:14,680
Gardens in between, I think, but yeah, brother and Sister.

1925
01:40:14,720 --> 01:40:17,560
I've had the poster for years and it's so tantalizing,

1926
01:40:17,640 --> 01:40:20,520
and it has Susan Westcott. I know Susan Westcoin's on it.

1927
01:40:20,560 --> 01:40:23,000
I think Jackie Gierox is in it, Tracy Hanfoos is

1928
01:40:23,039 --> 01:40:26,920
in it, Sandy Dempsey's in it. I think the Yeah,

1929
01:40:26,960 --> 01:40:31,399
it's like, I'm shocked that that hasn't turned up somewhere somehow.

1930
01:40:32,279 --> 01:40:36,640
Speaker 6: I went on a I called out to, uh, the

1931
01:40:37,359 --> 01:40:40,800
Erotic Museum in Vegas.

1932
01:40:40,680 --> 01:40:45,159
Speaker 7: And I talked Ted mclavaney's place. Uh, no, Harry movie,

1933
01:40:46,039 --> 01:40:47,079
Oh Harrrimony's place.

1934
01:40:47,119 --> 01:40:49,319
Speaker 6: Okay, yeah. Bob sort of hit me to that to

1935
01:40:49,399 --> 01:40:53,159
ask them if they might know, because they do. I

1936
01:40:53,239 --> 01:40:57,399
think they They actually go and catalog people's private collections

1937
01:40:57,399 --> 01:40:59,720
as well. They're asked to do that and whatever, but

1938
01:41:00,119 --> 01:41:02,079
they have not turned that movie up.

1939
01:41:03,560 --> 01:41:07,479
Speaker 7: So my poster I have is a Canadian poster, so

1940
01:41:07,640 --> 01:41:12,079
it's printed on the back with the Montreal sensor Board

1941
01:41:12,119 --> 01:41:14,479
has approved it and it says and that's written on

1942
01:41:14,560 --> 01:41:18,960
the back taboo love. So I think it was maybe

1943
01:41:19,079 --> 01:41:22,680
reissued or they put that on there for some reason

1944
01:41:22,720 --> 01:41:24,119
if they were going to show it again and they

1945
01:41:24,159 --> 01:41:25,680
wanted to say they were, you know, showing it that

1946
01:41:25,840 --> 01:41:28,319
print or whatever. So I know it got released in

1947
01:41:28,399 --> 01:41:32,640
Canada and that might be the next step. I don't

1948
01:41:32,680 --> 01:41:35,359
know how good they're I don't know where that what

1949
01:41:35,479 --> 01:41:39,199
the steps would even be, but yeah, it just looks

1950
01:41:39,239 --> 01:41:42,359
so good and uh and based on the Roland Miller

1951
01:41:42,399 --> 01:41:45,239
track record, all those movies are good, so I feel

1952
01:41:45,279 --> 01:41:46,760
like this one should probably be too.

1953
01:41:48,720 --> 01:41:53,199
Speaker 5: That feels good. Just relax, Missus Goodman, and I'll make

1954
01:41:53,239 --> 01:41:57,439
you feel very good. You could get a job as

1955
01:41:57,479 --> 01:41:58,039
in a suit.

1956
01:41:58,720 --> 01:41:59,560
Speaker 2: You're marvelous.

1957
01:42:00,239 --> 01:42:01,800
Speaker 10: I haven't even the ken this too?

1958
01:42:04,439 --> 01:42:05,800
Speaker 5: Is that better, Missus Goodman?

1959
01:42:06,520 --> 01:42:08,119
Speaker 10: Oh yes, dude, that's wonderful.

1960
01:42:08,439 --> 01:42:13,520
Speaker 2: But do keep on before we close out, Casey, I

1961
01:42:13,520 --> 01:42:16,239
think you're the only person who's seen this sort of

1962
01:42:16,479 --> 01:42:20,319
unofficial is it official sequel All American Women? Oh, tell

1963
01:42:20,399 --> 01:42:20,600
us a.

1964
01:42:20,600 --> 01:42:23,239
Speaker 7: Little bit about this. So, yeah, this was the one

1965
01:42:23,279 --> 01:42:26,840
that I've owned. So when all was something weird, when

1966
01:42:26,880 --> 01:42:30,720
All was something weird, all the many Kande stuff went

1967
01:42:30,720 --> 01:42:32,520
out of print, and we should talk about that too.

1968
01:42:33,000 --> 01:42:36,720
So they licensed those from the Kande estate because Manual

1969
01:42:36,800 --> 01:42:39,680
Kandy died in nineteen ninety two. I'm sorry, I think

1970
01:42:39,720 --> 01:42:41,880
he actually died in ninety four, but for some reason,

1971
01:42:41,920 --> 01:42:46,520
IMDb says ninety two. So they licensed the Kandy library

1972
01:42:46,520 --> 01:42:49,880
and they put out all these conde titles. So All

1973
01:42:49,920 --> 01:42:52,119
American Women. When they annound they were going out of print,

1974
01:42:52,119 --> 01:42:54,279
I bought them all just to stock up. But that

1975
01:42:54,399 --> 01:42:56,640
means I still haven't seen like Danish and Blue, and

1976
01:42:56,680 --> 01:43:00,239
I still haven't seen Love Games. Lu Sharon Kelly an

1977
01:43:00,279 --> 01:43:02,199
All American Woman. I said, well, we're talking about All

1978
01:43:02,199 --> 01:43:04,720
American Girl. Let me put this on. And I'd heard

1979
01:43:04,840 --> 01:43:07,039
it had a bad It has a bad reputation because

1980
01:43:07,079 --> 01:43:09,199
I think people are comparing it to All American Girl,

1981
01:43:09,680 --> 01:43:12,199
which it absolutely is not. It's much more grown up,

1982
01:43:12,439 --> 01:43:15,600
but it's still very Sarno. It's it's sort of a

1983
01:43:15,680 --> 01:43:20,920
suburban melodrama. It's about a model who comes to stay

1984
01:43:21,000 --> 01:43:25,479
with her sister and her sister's family, so very sarna

1985
01:43:25,600 --> 01:43:30,520
right off the bat, she is very sexually unfulfilled. The

1986
01:43:30,600 --> 01:43:32,920
first sex scene is a masturbation scene, which is very

1987
01:43:32,960 --> 01:43:36,119
similar to All American Girl. With the lighting and the photography.

1988
01:43:36,359 --> 01:43:41,199
Man Conde's duplicating. Douglas knaps photography very well, but it

1989
01:43:41,239 --> 01:43:43,119
takes place in like a living room chair, and so

1990
01:43:43,239 --> 01:43:45,520
it focuses on this woman who's a model, and how

1991
01:43:45,560 --> 01:43:48,079
she's trying to seek sexual pleasure. But it's the opposite

1992
01:43:48,079 --> 01:43:52,079
of All American Girl, that she's not finding satisfaction like

1993
01:43:52,319 --> 01:43:56,920
anywhere like, so you know, and then her her niece

1994
01:43:57,000 --> 01:44:00,359
has the same similar problem and that she's having sex

1995
01:44:00,439 --> 01:44:03,520
with her boyfriend who looks a small pot and have sex,

1996
01:44:03,880 --> 01:44:07,399
but he comes too quick and leaves her unsatisfied. So

1997
01:44:07,560 --> 01:44:10,880
these two, so this woman and her niece have a

1998
01:44:11,039 --> 01:44:14,000
very effective sex scene together and then they kind of

1999
01:44:14,039 --> 01:44:20,920
come away changed. And then the model finally finds sexual

2000
01:44:20,960 --> 01:44:26,159
pleasure with her brother in law, and so it's the

2001
01:44:26,239 --> 01:44:28,760
production values are strong. The production values are a little

2002
01:44:28,760 --> 01:44:32,279
better than All American Girl. And I have no doubt

2003
01:44:32,319 --> 01:44:34,359
that it was titled that because of the success of

2004
01:44:34,399 --> 01:44:37,399
All American Girl. It's all American Woman, but it's not

2005
01:44:37,600 --> 01:44:40,520
the same character all grown up. It's just a different woman.

2006
01:44:40,960 --> 01:44:43,119
So Minni Condi obviously it was just like, Yeah, we

2007
01:44:43,159 --> 01:44:44,840
need to do another movie like this. And I don't

2008
01:44:44,840 --> 01:44:48,000
know if Mark had this script ready or if he

2009
01:44:48,039 --> 01:44:51,920
wrote specifically for this production. I was very surprised at

2010
01:44:51,920 --> 01:44:56,119
how much I liked it. It's another one where you

2011
01:44:56,199 --> 01:44:59,800
can see that Haggard's talents are definitely in the writing

2012
01:44:59,800 --> 01:45:04,000
and editing, because both are terrific. On Letterbox, they gave

2013
01:45:04,000 --> 01:45:06,880
it a four out of five. I gave it really strong,

2014
01:45:07,279 --> 01:45:10,119
strong rating. Not as good as Love Gardener All American Girl,

2015
01:45:10,239 --> 01:45:14,479
but it's really very very good. Joe Rubin and Vinegarsindrome

2016
01:45:14,520 --> 01:45:16,319
reviewed it and gave it two and a half and

2017
01:45:16,520 --> 01:45:17,800
said he thought it was fine.

2018
01:45:18,359 --> 01:45:18,800
Speaker 2: I think.

2019
01:45:20,880 --> 01:45:24,479
Speaker 7: He does, yes, So that's the That's kind of the

2020
01:45:24,520 --> 01:45:28,479
frustrating thing is that so the Kandi estate sold those

2021
01:45:28,560 --> 01:45:32,199
films after they didn't license them to Vinegarsonder and they

2022
01:45:32,279 --> 01:45:35,039
sold them so Vinegarsendron bought them outright. And all the

2023
01:45:35,119 --> 01:45:38,399
elements that they had which were only negatives to those

2024
01:45:38,439 --> 01:45:41,039
four I mentioned, I believe was her deep jaws Dictator

2025
01:45:41,119 --> 01:45:43,640
and the All American Girl and All American Women and

2026
01:45:43,760 --> 01:45:46,720
then other prints and things. So they and I think

2027
01:45:46,720 --> 01:45:49,159
there's a few others, but they said they were going

2028
01:45:49,239 --> 01:45:51,399
to do All American Girl an All American Woman, like

2029
01:45:51,640 --> 01:45:54,199
over a decade ago. They announced it and said they

2030
01:45:54,239 --> 01:45:56,680
were going to put them together. So that's when Mark

2031
01:45:56,720 --> 01:45:59,560
Haggard was in touch with Anthology. I gave them Mark

2032
01:45:59,560 --> 01:46:03,600
Haggard's phone number and I was like, call him, get

2033
01:46:03,640 --> 01:46:05,680
a commentary for Love Gardens. So when you upgrade to

2034
01:46:05,720 --> 01:46:07,960
Blu Ray, you can put a commentary on there and

2035
01:46:08,079 --> 01:46:11,439
do the commentaries for the All American films. And I

2036
01:46:11,560 --> 01:46:13,399
believe that they did call and speak to him, but

2037
01:46:13,520 --> 01:46:15,760
I don't know if it went anywhere, because I have

2038
01:46:15,880 --> 01:46:19,560
a message from Niger Syndrome saying we spoke to him. Well,

2039
01:46:19,600 --> 01:46:22,319
I don't know, And I don't know if it's because

2040
01:46:22,359 --> 01:46:24,319
the elements are in good shape. I don't know if

2041
01:46:24,359 --> 01:46:26,840
it's because they don't think they'll sell. I really don't know.

2042
01:46:27,079 --> 01:46:29,760
But it's kind of like the apostle of library, where

2043
01:46:30,479 --> 01:46:34,680
it's sitting there and that's it, Like it's not even

2044
01:46:34,720 --> 01:46:37,000
getting restored to be put on like hot movies or

2045
01:46:37,079 --> 01:46:42,039
streaming or anything. It's just sitting there. It's incredibly frustrating because,

2046
01:46:42,079 --> 01:46:47,000
like I've I've been with the company and privy to

2047
01:46:47,079 --> 01:46:49,920
the company stuff since the beginning, because I knew Joe

2048
01:46:49,960 --> 01:46:52,399
Rubin when he was in like he was an underage

2049
01:46:52,479 --> 01:46:56,119
kid on MySpace posing, you know, posing as someone in

2050
01:46:56,119 --> 01:46:59,199
their twenties when we talked about porn for hours and hours.

2051
01:47:00,000 --> 01:47:01,439
So I was with her at the beginning, with them

2052
01:47:01,439 --> 01:47:03,319
at the beginning of the company. So I as they

2053
01:47:03,399 --> 01:47:06,119
kept buying libraries, I got more and more excited. And

2054
01:47:06,239 --> 01:47:08,359
then as we get a lot more and more Tobolina

2055
01:47:09,000 --> 01:47:13,479
and uh, I was just like, Okay, so this is

2056
01:47:13,720 --> 01:47:16,479
this is what's happening. We're getting the Tobolinas and we're

2057
01:47:16,520 --> 01:47:19,760
not getting the Apostle offs, and we're not getting the

2058
01:47:19,840 --> 01:47:23,600
Mandy Condi's. So I resent the Tobolina's. And I think

2059
01:47:23,960 --> 01:47:25,960
in a conversation I've had with with Joe Ruben, he's

2060
01:47:25,960 --> 01:47:28,399
acknowledged that that he thinks that they glutted the market

2061
01:47:28,439 --> 01:47:31,600
with that stuff. So when people are being told that

2062
01:47:31,720 --> 01:47:34,399
vinegar syndrom is restoring stuff that is worthy of attention,

2063
01:47:34,760 --> 01:47:37,159
and then looking into films and they're getting the Tobolinas.

2064
01:47:37,840 --> 01:47:41,279
They believe that they have been sold a false package

2065
01:47:41,800 --> 01:47:44,119
because they're going to like, well, you're saying these films

2066
01:47:44,159 --> 01:47:46,439
are worthy of attention these I'm sorry, you want me

2067
01:47:46,479 --> 01:47:49,840
to watch Flesh Pond and Sexual Heights like instead of

2068
01:47:50,159 --> 01:47:53,680
you know, so I think that, unfortunately, I think the

2069
01:47:53,720 --> 01:47:57,359
Tobolina's kind of had a negative effect on the on

2070
01:47:57,560 --> 01:48:00,880
the the Pikorama releases unfortunately, which sucks because they are

2071
01:48:00,920 --> 01:48:02,920
in the best condition. The films just aren't good.

2072
01:48:04,359 --> 01:48:06,600
Speaker 6: That is true. I will agree with that for sure.

2073
01:48:06,720 --> 01:48:07,119
They are not.

2074
01:48:08,560 --> 01:48:11,760
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, that's it's it's it's There was another

2075
01:48:11,840 --> 01:48:14,359
guy that there's someone else I was very good friends

2076
01:48:14,399 --> 01:48:17,359
with on Facebook, which I don't really use anymore, who

2077
01:48:17,479 --> 01:48:21,239
was part of the Vindiger Syndrome Appreciation Group, and I

2078
01:48:21,319 --> 01:48:25,000
think every single announcement for like a year that of

2079
01:48:25,479 --> 01:48:28,439
the package that was coming out, he would say, oh,

2080
01:48:28,560 --> 01:48:31,600
so all American girl all American women is next time, right,

2081
01:48:31,920 --> 01:48:35,720
It's next time right, because he loves these movies. Is

2082
01:48:35,880 --> 01:48:40,319
this He loves all American girls And he he would

2083
01:48:40,319 --> 01:48:42,279
say that, and eventually they'd be like, I don't think

2084
01:48:42,319 --> 01:48:44,319
they ever responded, you know, it was just kind of

2085
01:48:44,399 --> 01:48:47,880
like so he he would. I had private conversations and

2086
01:48:47,920 --> 01:48:49,960
he say, I'm just giving up on ever seeing these movies.

2087
01:48:49,960 --> 01:48:52,319
I'll probably die and never see these movies looking gorgeous.

2088
01:48:52,359 --> 01:48:59,199
I'm like, well, that's extreme but so but also like

2089
01:48:59,840 --> 01:49:02,439
the it's film. You've seen the movie. It's not like

2090
01:49:02,720 --> 01:49:05,880
a lost movie that's sitting around not being it's you know,

2091
01:49:06,239 --> 01:49:08,319
brought out. It's not like if like come right the

2092
01:49:08,359 --> 01:49:10,960
while Pink Corus was found and yeah, that I'd be like,

2093
01:49:11,079 --> 01:49:13,399
I can't die if it's around. I can't die without

2094
01:49:13,399 --> 01:49:15,439
seeing that movie. At this point, he just want to

2095
01:49:15,439 --> 01:49:19,239
see it nice and clean, which is fair. But yeah,

2096
01:49:19,359 --> 01:49:22,199
I'm hoping, and I keep hoping with the meliciny line

2097
01:49:22,640 --> 01:49:24,760
as they keep going back to the well for softcore,

2098
01:49:24,880 --> 01:49:28,199
that will eventually get to the count, the Condis and

2099
01:49:28,279 --> 01:49:32,119
the Apostle Offs because the elements are apparently there. It's just,

2100
01:49:32,800 --> 01:49:34,439
you know, the good thing is they are and good

2101
01:49:34,520 --> 01:49:37,880
can they're in good enough, They're they're being taken care of,

2102
01:49:38,039 --> 01:49:39,800
which is a good thing because they have a they

2103
01:49:39,840 --> 01:49:41,880
have a huge vault, so it's all been taken care

2104
01:49:41,920 --> 01:49:43,439
of and make sure it's not going to go into

2105
01:49:43,479 --> 01:49:44,560
actual vinegar syndrome.

2106
01:49:44,920 --> 01:49:48,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, yeah, no shade to Bob or Tobalalina,

2107
01:49:49,039 --> 01:49:51,800
but yeah, we've exhausted I feel like they've exhausted that

2108
01:49:52,319 --> 01:49:53,000
for a little while.

2109
01:49:53,319 --> 01:49:55,880
Speaker 7: Well the Bob's, like, the bobs are all exciting to

2110
01:49:55,960 --> 01:49:59,479
me because it's like because those are I know, they're

2111
01:49:59,520 --> 01:50:01,000
good film, but like they.

2112
01:50:01,319 --> 01:50:04,039
Speaker 2: Need a little slower I think I think they did

2113
01:50:04,239 --> 01:50:09,479
put out a lot times. They're done.

2114
01:50:09,880 --> 01:50:12,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, we don't have any any other any Bobs to expect.

2115
01:50:12,800 --> 01:50:14,920
They still haven't put on the tobolines out because they

2116
01:50:15,079 --> 01:50:18,560
really they Yeah, they cut that the faucet off because

2117
01:50:18,560 --> 01:50:20,800
I think they realized it was diminishing returns on those.

2118
01:50:21,560 --> 01:50:25,279
But yeah, the Apostolos and the Kandy are that those

2119
01:50:25,319 --> 01:50:27,520
are the two big lives. That's the too big library,

2120
01:50:28,159 --> 01:50:31,359
uh libraries that they have that are they're not being exploited.

2121
01:50:32,000 --> 01:50:35,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've talked about those early Apostolovs, how fun they are.

2122
01:50:35,880 --> 01:50:36,880
So yeah, I hope those are.

2123
01:50:37,560 --> 01:50:40,279
Speaker 7: Well, even the seventies ones are. I mean, I love

2124
01:50:40,840 --> 01:50:45,680
Dropout Wife and class Reunion is good. I mean yeah,

2125
01:50:45,720 --> 01:50:48,039
there's definitely and well almost all of them are written

2126
01:50:48,039 --> 01:50:50,199
by ed Woods, so you have the Edwood connection. Just

2127
01:50:50,800 --> 01:50:54,840
capitalize on that if you need to. The Kandis are

2128
01:50:54,880 --> 01:50:58,720
tougher cells. But especially because the people at Vinegar Syndrome

2129
01:50:58,720 --> 01:51:00,239
who are working on the sex film souf. I know

2130
01:51:00,359 --> 01:51:03,159
the good stuff, so they know these films are good.

2131
01:51:03,239 --> 01:51:06,640
So I wish they'd get prioritized. And that's all I

2132
01:51:06,720 --> 01:51:10,159
can say. They don't listen to my suggestions anymore. I

2133
01:51:10,279 --> 01:51:12,119
tried to talk them out of releasing Intimate Lessons and

2134
01:51:12,199 --> 01:51:14,000
that didn't go well. That still came out.

2135
01:51:14,279 --> 01:51:16,600
Speaker 2: So all right, So we need to send this podcast

2136
01:51:16,680 --> 01:51:22,239
to Joe, to Bob because this, and to Mark Haggard,

2137
01:51:22,279 --> 01:51:24,159
who is somewhere in Arizona.

2138
01:51:25,119 --> 01:51:31,119
Speaker 7: Mark, you yes, I don't know. I you know, I

2139
01:51:31,199 --> 01:51:34,680
think Mark. I feel like maybe if you reached out

2140
01:51:34,720 --> 01:51:36,920
and wanted to get do something with his films ten

2141
01:51:37,039 --> 01:51:40,520
years ago, I can't imagine what that feeling is ten

2142
01:51:40,640 --> 01:51:43,039
years later, where it's just like God, people still don't

2143
01:51:43,079 --> 01:51:44,279
want to talk about my films.

2144
01:51:44,479 --> 01:51:45,199
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying.

2145
01:51:45,399 --> 01:51:47,319
Speaker 7: We still want to talk about your films. Mark, if

2146
01:51:47,359 --> 01:51:49,720
you're listening, we're dying to talk about your films. We

2147
01:51:50,079 --> 01:51:52,760
spent almost two hours talking about this movie.

2148
01:51:53,239 --> 01:51:58,279
Speaker 2: So you know, yeah, agreed. Any last thoughts, Patrick.

2149
01:51:59,279 --> 01:52:01,680
Speaker 6: Well, I'm with, uh, yeah, I'm with I'm with Casey

2150
01:52:01,760 --> 01:52:03,920
on that. I mean, I really I I And I

2151
01:52:04,000 --> 01:52:06,199
want to say I got to see the All American Woman.

2152
01:52:06,279 --> 01:52:09,399
I've not seen it, but it's I hope, I hope

2153
01:52:10,760 --> 01:52:14,239
uh someday. But yes, I I it's a shame that

2154
01:52:14,399 --> 01:52:17,840
this and all American women are not being prioritized by

2155
01:52:17,960 --> 01:52:23,000
Finniker syndrome. And I did not really think about how Yeah,

2156
01:52:23,039 --> 01:52:25,800
the Topalinas may have saturated the market and made a

2157
01:52:25,840 --> 01:52:28,079
glood of things and whatnot. That makes up a lot

2158
01:52:28,119 --> 01:52:32,800
of sense. But but yeah, hopefully this movie will get

2159
01:52:32,840 --> 01:52:37,039
its uh, we'll get its day where it gets cleaned up.

2160
01:52:37,279 --> 01:52:40,000
But as you said, you know, it's available. I mean

2161
01:52:40,039 --> 01:52:42,319
you can see it. It's not it's not that it's lost.

2162
01:52:42,399 --> 01:52:44,239
It's not that it's cut up or anything. It's not

2163
01:52:44,520 --> 01:52:47,199
you know, I mean that's some some movies, you know,

2164
01:52:47,319 --> 01:52:50,680
they're they're that's the way they are. They're just missing stuff.

2165
01:52:51,159 --> 01:52:53,720
But this is this is intact, so you know, I mean,

2166
01:52:53,800 --> 01:52:56,399
it could look better, but it could be worse. But

2167
01:52:56,640 --> 01:52:59,840
it deserves all the attention it could get because it's

2168
01:53:00,000 --> 01:53:05,039
it's the fabulous movie from top to bottoms to.

2169
01:53:05,279 --> 01:53:13,640
Speaker 11: The All America American Girl to Day the Man Tomorrow

2170
01:53:13,880 --> 01:53:22,520
the World call America American Girl Ram a bad mother.

2171
01:53:22,920 --> 01:53:27,279
Speaker 8: And nothing on her O say can't you see what

2172
01:53:27,520 --> 01:53:34,800
she's doing to me? Lai hallelujahs.

2173
01:53:35,279 --> 01:53:42,000
Speaker 9: The All American American Girl starts Ram.

2174
01:53:42,520 --> 01:53:46,159
Speaker 8: You want to see her? Girl, You'll say, can't you

2175
01:53:46,359 --> 01:53:53,840
see what she's doing to me? Laurent or Alan Duvia.

2176
01:53:55,479 --> 01:53:59,079
Speaker 9: All America American Girl.

2177
01:54:00,279 --> 01:54:01,760
Speaker 7: She loves to game the balls.

2178
01:54:01,960 --> 01:54:08,159
Speaker 9: Yes the windmen know, world think can't you see what

2179
01:54:08,439 --> 01:54:10,079
She's doing to me?

2180
01:54:11,520 --> 01:54:18,119
Speaker 8: Glory and had a lot ye think can't you see what.

2181
01:54:18,319 --> 01:55:38,920
Speaker 10: She's doing to me? By Deborah Collins. When was the

2182
01:55:39,000 --> 01:55:40,119
last time you were spanked?

2183
01:55:40,279 --> 01:55:42,319
Speaker 5: Not since I was ten? But go ahead.

2184
01:55:42,319 --> 01:55:42,960
Speaker 11: If you want to.

2185
01:55:49,239 --> 01:55:52,039
Speaker 10: Thank you for listening to hear more shows from the

2186
01:55:52,079 --> 01:55:55,920
Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network, please select the link in

2187
01:55:55,960 --> 01:55:56,479
the description.

2188
01:56:01,520 --> 01:56:04,399
Speaker 6: Hey, this is Jason Kleeberg from The Force five podcast,

2189
01:56:04,479 --> 01:56:06,199
a show that forces a guest to come up with

2190
01:56:06,239 --> 01:56:08,720
a movie themed top five list topic and then we

2191
01:56:08,880 --> 01:56:10,439
reveal our picks on air.

2192
01:56:10,720 --> 01:56:13,600
Speaker 10: Top five heist films, top five tier Jerkers, top five

2193
01:56:13,720 --> 01:56:14,600
movie dogs.

2194
01:56:14,800 --> 01:56:17,640
Speaker 7: Every show you'll be asking yourself what would be on

2195
01:56:17,840 --> 01:56:18,279
my list?

2196
01:56:18,560 --> 01:56:23,359
Speaker 6: Guests include directors, screenwriters, actors, podcasters, musicians, authors, and even

2197
01:56:23,399 --> 01:56:26,600
a professional wrestler. Subscribe to the Force five podcast and

2198
01:56:26,680 --> 01:56:28,960
you won't just be a listener, you'll be a list nerd.

2199
01:56:29,239 --> 01:56:32,199
The Force five podcast available wherever you are Listening now