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Speaker 1: What up, everybody.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to another episode of Let's Ask Paul, the podcast

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where you get to ask me Paul Abernathy anything you

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want about the National Electrical Code and all things electrically related. Hey,

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thanks for joining me on this podcast.

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Speaker 1: Again.

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Speaker 2: I want to send a shout out to everybody. I

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just got the numbers I came back from the NFPA meeting.

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I think it was over seventy some thousand downloads the

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last week of our podcasts. Hey, guys, it does fluctuate

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because again, when we do our podcast totals, it's across

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all of our platforms, our unique downloads from our videos,

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from our podcasts, from our different episodes from our Remember

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we have over a thousand plus episodes, so they add

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up and somebody listens. You know, if each episode gets

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ten listeners or ten unique listens, then it add ups

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pretty quickly. So we want to thank everybody out there

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for listening to our podcasts. Remember, you can get access

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to our podcasts on any of your favorite podcast listening platforms,

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whether it's Spotify, Spreaker, Deezer, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcast, Audible,

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Amazon Music, all you got.

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Speaker 1: To do is search for it.

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Speaker 2: So if you want to find our Master the NEC

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podcast that's almost popular. It's Master the NEC podcast, and

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go searching for it. I listen to mine all the

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time on my Alexa device using Spotify, and you can

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listen to all the episodes there. Or you can go

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for our Let's Ask Paul podcast, which is what we're

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doing today, and that is basically search for Let's Ask

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Paul podcast.

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Speaker 1: And then of course our latest.

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Speaker 2: Podcast is the Bond and Ground Podcast, where I talk

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about grounding and bonding and try to to spill all

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these myths that people have so much misconceptions and misunderstandings

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about grounding and bonding that it just begged to have

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its own unique podcast, So make sure you check those out. Look,

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if you want to find an easy way to do this,

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just go get our free mobile app. It's free, it

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doesn't cost you a dime. We're not going to try

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to push anything down your throat. If you're a Mike

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Colt subscriber, I love Mike. He does great things. Ryan Jackson, Look,

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I'm not trying to compete with anybody. We offer courses,

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they offer courses, you know what. It's all good for

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the industry, everybody. I am never against other educators. Okay,

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I think all of us are good for the industry.

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Some people listen to other people differently than others, and

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some people like a style that one person gives over

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the other.

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Speaker 1: I think it's great.

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Speaker 2: I promote Mike, I promote Ryan, I promote all kinds

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of educators. So please don't get me wrong. I appreciate

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you folks listening to my flavor of delivery, but I

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encourage you to check their out as well. But you

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can get our free mobile app that's over on our website.

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It's easy to find. It's in the navigation. I won't

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load any bloatwear into your phone. I promise you. It

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will only put a link on your phone. It will

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not download software on your phone. It will ask you

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permissions in case you want to get a notification of

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some kind of new change in the code or some

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kind of announcement. But at the end of the day,

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we're not putting anything on your phone.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: In that mobile app, you got calculators in the Field, Calculators, Vultae,

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Drop Calculators, Raceway Field. You have all these great calculators,

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but you also have blogs.

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Speaker 1: You get access to our.

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Speaker 2: Podcasts, you get access to chat features which are only

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for people that have the mobile app app, which means

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that you can attach a picture to a question in

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the field, and it's only going to be viewable by

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those that have the mobile app, so it's not open

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to everybody. It's a great platform and it's free. It

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doesn't cost you a dime to join it. And so

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check that out over on fast Tracks System. That's Trax

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by the way, fast Tracks System all one word dot

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com and you can get that mobile app. It's again,

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it's cloud based. All it does is put a link

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on your phone. Why do we do that because I

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don't believe in putting crap in your phone. I believe

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that you don't need to go to the Apple Store

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or the Google Store play store. I think that we

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should be able to push updates to you freely without

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having to get into your phone and make you update

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something every few weeks or months.

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Speaker 1: I just don't believe in it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So anyway, check that out and get that mobile

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app because in there you can listen to the podcast,

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all three of the podcast. You can click it and

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it'll take you right to this unique player and you

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can stream it on any of you your Bluetooth devices.

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Speaker 1: It's awesome in your.

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Speaker 2: Car while you're riding down the road on the job site,

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in your earbuds. Whatever you want to listen, we got

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you covered.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Also, there's descriptions of the different episodes, so you can

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kind of scroll through them. There's a lot of them, folks,

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so all different types of topics that you may find interesting.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So anyway, today on the Let's Ask.

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Speaker 2: Paul, I got a great question that was submitted and

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I like this question because and this one, Darlene kind

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of sifted this to me early. I've got a bunch

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of them I got to catch up with, but this

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one was sifted to me early because it was from

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a gentleman that is preparing for an exam and he's

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really working on his calculations, and he sends me good

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questions that probably that he would have learned if he

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was in our program. Ironically, he is not in our

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Fast Tracks program. So that just goes to show you

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that I answer questions for people, whether or not you're

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by our courses or don't, I'm here to help you. Okay.

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Speaker 1: You can be a hater if you want.

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Speaker 2: You can go over with some of these other forms

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and trash me if you want, But you can look

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yourself in the mirror and say, do you do as

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much for the industry as Paul does, whether it's answering

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code questions, putting out products, making courses, doing free videos,

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all those type of things.

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Speaker 1: Do you do it? But anyway, I digress.

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Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and get into the question because this

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is going to be a nice little question for us

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to dissect.

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Speaker 1: Say, I understand your driving.

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Speaker 2: I understand that you're listening and you kind I got

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to try to paint you this mental picture because that's

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the whole concept. And that's why I enjoy podcasting. It's

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my number one platform.

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Speaker 1: I love videos.

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Speaker 2: I love doing training videos, I love doing at But

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let me tell you what podcasting is. When I started

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doing this, god nearly twenty years ago, what before it

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was even called podcasting, recording episodes.

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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Speaker 2: Because it forces me to paint a mental picture for you.

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That's why I love doing it. It's a challenge for me. Okay,

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It's not just where I sit here and have two

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or three people in the room and we try to

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have a banter back and forth and you just listen

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in I get it. There's a place for those type

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of podcasts. It's not what I do now. I do

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have those interviews and I do do those things, but

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I like to do lessons in my podcast or explain things.

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Speaker 1: It's between me and you.

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Speaker 2: It's very personal, and I try to paint this mental

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picture that's important for me, paint a mental picture for

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the individual so that at the end of the day,

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I'm locking something in their mind. So let me read

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this question and we'll discuss it, and I'll explain how

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this can be confusing for many people.

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Speaker 1: Here's the question. It says, good morning, Paul.

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Speaker 2: I hope you're having a good time in Vegas, but

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I have a question. Now, this is a question that

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obviously came from a code database. I can tell you

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this individual is not in our fast Tracks program, so

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that just again goes to show you I answer questions

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for anybody.

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Speaker 1: He goes.

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Speaker 2: The maximum size of a circuit breaker that can be

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installed for one AWGTA feeder tap conductors is blank.

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Speaker 1: Amps.

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Speaker 2: Let me read that again, because I understand you could

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pause and listen later or whatnot. The question is a

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maximum sized circuit breaker that can be installed for a

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one AWG THHW feeder tap conductor is blank ampiers. Now

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focusing on the question, Remember I tell you dissect the

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question dissect, dissect, dissect, You got to get used to

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doing that. The answer here is, Hey, Paul, what size

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breaker do I need for a feeder tap conductor? And

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I already have a one AWGTHW What breaker can I

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put on that?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 2: All right, So you're saying, okay, well the maximum sized

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circuit breaker for this application. Okay, we'll look at it.

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So it's a one gauge. We already know what it is.

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One gauge.

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Speaker 1: Now what is the opacity of a one gauge?

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Speaker 2: Well, since it's THHW, we're going to be in the

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seventy five degree column, and under the seventy five degree column.

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A one gauge copper always assume copper unless state it otherwise,

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is going to be good for one hundred and thirty

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amps right now, that is obviously over one hundred amps.

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So sixty amps doesn't even come into the sixty degree column,

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won't even come into the table one ten dot fourteen C.

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We're going to stay in the seventy five degree column.

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We also are not doing any adjustment of corrections. So

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we're not going to go to the ninety degree column.

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We're going to stay right here in the seventy five

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degree column. So it's good for one hundred and thirty ams, okay.

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So that's what this conductor is good for. So the

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answers that are given here, you have four answers. It

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says A is one hundred amps, B is one ten,

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C is one twenty five, and D is one fifty.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Now he goes on to say the answer they give

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and we're uh, we're going and spill the beans here.

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The answer they give on the exam prep question that

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he has is a one hundred and twenty five ampres Okay,

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so that's what they give, one hundred and twenty five

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mpires And he goes that doesn't make sense because the

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wire is rated for one hundred and thirty amps on

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the seventy five degree table. So that's what his that's

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his question, okay. So that's that's the question that's that

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is on the table. And so what we want to

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do is say, okay, well let me help you out here.

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First of all, you said it was a tap conductor,

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so it tells me it's tap tapping off of a feeder,

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and it doesn't give a length, so we will assume.

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Speaker 1: You know, people say, well, I hate to assume.

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Speaker 2: Well, you can't assume it's over ten feet if it

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just says it's a tap conductor. So we'll go with

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the baseline, and the baseline is ten feet. If it

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doesn't say over ten then you got to go, well,

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then it's got to be the baseline if it's a

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tap conductor, whether it's six inches one.

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Speaker 1: Foot, two foot, three foot, four foot.

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Speaker 2: That's the general room. It's going to be obviously the

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ten foot rule. If they intended it, well, it could

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be the over ten foot. Well it doesn't say that.

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It's just says a tap conductor, so we have to

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go with the baseline. The baseline is going to be

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up to ten feet. So that's the tap rule. Okay,

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So when you're thinking about feeder taps, we obviously want

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to look at two forty dot twenty one B for

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feeder taps. Now, the first thing that we're gonna notice

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when we're looking at two forty dot twenty one B

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is that there's a little statement in there that says

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that you cannot use the next size up rule, right,

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so you're not allowed to use and two forty twenty

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one B, it'll tell you, guess what, I can't use

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the next size up So that's the first thing we

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have to remember, no next size up rule.

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Speaker 1: So this conductor is good for one hundred and thirty amps.

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We got you. Next, we have to look at two forty.

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Speaker 2: Twenty one B one one B and that that kind

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of depicts the opacity of that tap conductor, and it

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says pretty much, uh, I'll just paraphrase it.

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Speaker 1: In this scenario.

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Speaker 2: The key target here is that it shall not be

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less than the rating of the overcurrent protected device.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, in your.

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Speaker 2: Mind you're saying, okay, well it's one hundred and thirty

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amp rated conductor, then I need one hundred and thirty

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amp rated overcurrent device.

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Speaker 1: Well, then if you go look.

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Speaker 2: At two forty dot six A, guess what there isn't

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one hundred and thirty amp overcurrent protected device. So and

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again we know that we can't use the next size

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up rule because it says it right there in two

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forty dot twenty one B. It reminds us we cannot

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use the next size up rule. In two forty dot

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four B. We cannot jump it up.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: So when I go look at two forty dot two

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forty dot six A, and I look at two forty

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dots six A, and I look at the standard list

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of overcurrent protected devices that are given. And when I

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look at this list, I see A one twenty five

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and then it jumps to A one fifty. And you say, well,

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if the conductor is good for one hundred and thirty amps, yeah,

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but you gotta remember what it says in two one

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B one one B, and so when you go look

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at that, you remind yourself. You go, okay, I'll go

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look at that, and it says the opacity of the

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tap conductor is as follows, not less than the rating

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of the equipment containing an overcurrent device supplied by the

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tap conductor.

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Speaker 1: Or remember the ore, folks, power of ore.

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Speaker 2: It's not and it's or this or that it says,

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or not less than the rating of the overcurrent protect

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device at the termination of the tap conductor. So in

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this case, we don't have one hundred and thirty amp

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rated overcurrent device. We have A one twenty five. So

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could I possibly get a non standard type overcurrent device.

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Maybe there's one for one thirty. Yes, but that's not

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based on the question. The question gave you four answers,

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you have to choose one. So in this case, we

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couldn't use the one fifty because that would be obviously

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over the one thirty. We can't use an next size

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up rule in two forty dot four B because it

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told us we couldn't do that. Right in two forty

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dot twenty one B in the last sentence, it says

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section two forty dot four B shaw not be permitted

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for the tap conductor. So since we can't use the

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one fifty, and obviously the other ones are irrelevant, the

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one ten and one hundred, it's not going to play

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a role here, we are forced to use the one

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twenty five. So that's why that is the maximum size,

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because there isn't a one thirty, and there isn't one

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in the choices. Now, you could say in real world, well,

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I can go find me a one thirty. Well that's

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not the question. That is not when you're answering a

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code question and I get there's a lot of people

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out there that go, well, I would use the one thirty,

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I'd go find a one thirty.

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Speaker 1: Shut up.

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Speaker 2: This is an exam prep question, you have to answer

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it based on but what they give you. Stop trying

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to If I got to give advice to people out

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there when it comes to preparing for an electric exam,

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don't go in there with the knowledge that you have

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in the field. Go in there with the knowledge that

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you're gonna answer it based on what they ask you.

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And that's it. Don't say well, that's not how I

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would do it, or it doesn't. It doesn't matter how

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you would do it.

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Speaker 1: You have to do.

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Speaker 2: It based on the nec and based on how they

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present the question. And in this case, they only gave

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four answers, one hundred five and one to fifty. Will

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you know it can't be one fifty because you can't

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use an excise up allowance. The conductor is only good

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for one thirty. So I'm not going to terminate it

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on a one fifty, okay. So the only logical answer

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is one twenty five. Okay, So obviously I'm not going

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to use one ten or one hundred. I'm not gonna

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you know, it's it's like getting It's like getting a

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bag of chips with nothing but fifty percent of air

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in it. Okay, that's a waste. Yeah, it happens, but

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it's a waste. I want to get as much as

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I can out of it. Well, they don't make an

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overcurrent device that's rated one thirty. That is a standard size,

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that's in the standard list of forty dot six A.

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So the logical answer here is the maximum size based

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on all these rules that I just threw out at you,

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that it's going to be one hundred and twenty five.

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So the answer is one twenty five. Even though that

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conductor is rated for one thirty. The overcurrent device in

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this case, for this tap is going to be one

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twenty five, And that means you have to be understand

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your loads. You have to understand these rules and make

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sure that you've actually done a load calculation so that

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you know that these tap conductors are going to be

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able to handle specific loads that type of thing, and it's.

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Speaker 1: Probably going to terminate. Be honest with you.

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Speaker 2: In a one twenty five device probably going to be

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a one twenty five panel. Be honest with you, The

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conductor is going to be one good for one thirty.

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That's fine, five amps to spare if you will, but

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at the end of the day, perfectly acceptable and so

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one twenty five is your answer here, and that explains

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how we got that answer. Okay, all right, fairly short

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podcast today. I'm just kind of getting my boots back

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in the set of in here, back in the office.

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Been away for a couple of days out of the

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Nittmams out in Vegas.

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Speaker 1: It was a great time. Great people.

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Speaker 2: Got to have breakfast with Mike Holt. We had a

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great conversation. Brian House works for him and Mario Valdez.

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Great guys represent Mike Holton then very well, great gentlemen.

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We had a great breakfast. It was a great fellowship.

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I appreciate Mike for doing that. And again, everybody out there,

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Ryan Jackson, everybody that I saw out there, Great to

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see you all.

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Speaker 1: Vince Delacrotes, saw you.

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Speaker 2: Didn't get a chance to talk a lot to you

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because you were busy, busy, busy, little beaver. But again,

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saw a bunch of you out there. I was able

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to catch up with my counterparts with the other wiring

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cable manufacturers to say hey, what's up.

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Speaker 1: And it was just a great time.

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Speaker 2: And the next time you will catch me at an

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event will be at the NIKA. I will be at

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the NICA in Chicago, So if you'd love to catch

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up with me, come on out to the NICA. You

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really do need to come if you've never been to

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ANICA before. You get to go around and look at

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the new stuff from the manufacturers, put your hand stuff,

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ask those technical questions of different products.

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Speaker 1: It's a great time.

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Speaker 2: It's it's really in a lot of those social media

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people that do their little videos, they call them influence

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or I can't stand that term, but they'll be out

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there and you can say hey to them.

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Speaker 1: If you want.

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Speaker 2: It's just a good time and the NIKA events are

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always great, so every electrician should at least attend one.

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Speaker 1: Uh and this year it's in Chicago. Don't ask me

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for the date.

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Speaker 2: Google it online NIKA n ECA twenty twenty five Convention

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and uh it's in Chicago, So that'll give you a

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hint where it's at when you go looking online.

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Speaker 1: And UH I encourage you to visit, spend a day

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or two. It's usually huge.

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Speaker 2: You're gonna have to take a day or two to

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really absorb all of the manufacturers. I'm going to be

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at the Prismium en Core wire booth answering technical questions

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and signing your codebooks if you want it, or whatever

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you want, I'll be there. Ask me anything you want,

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and I'll be at the I'll be at the show

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every day of the ANICA event. So look forward to

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seeing you there. All right, folks, Tell next time, say safe,

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God bless it. We'll catch you on another episode of

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Let's Ask Paul, the podcast where you get to ask

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me anything you want about the National Electrical Code.