Speaker 1: What up, everybody.
Speaker 2: Welcome to another episode of Let's Ask Paul, the podcast
where you get to ask me Paul Abernathy anything you
want about the National Electrical Code and all things electrically related. Hey,
thanks for joining me on this podcast.
Speaker 1: Again.
Speaker 2: I want to send a shout out to everybody. I
just got the numbers I came back from the NFPA meeting.
I think it was over seventy some thousand downloads the
last week of our podcasts. Hey, guys, it does fluctuate
because again, when we do our podcast totals, it's across
all of our platforms, our unique downloads from our videos,
from our podcasts, from our different episodes from our Remember
we have over a thousand plus episodes, so they add
up and somebody listens. You know, if each episode gets
ten listeners or ten unique listens, then it add ups
pretty quickly. So we want to thank everybody out there
for listening to our podcasts. Remember, you can get access
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go searching for it. I listen to mine all the
time on my Alexa device using Spotify, and you can
listen to all the episodes there. Or you can go
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doing today, and that is basically search for Let's Ask
Paul podcast.
Speaker 1: And then of course our latest.
Speaker 2: Podcast is the Bond and Ground Podcast, where I talk
about grounding and bonding and try to to spill all
these myths that people have so much misconceptions and misunderstandings
about grounding and bonding that it just begged to have
its own unique podcast, So make sure you check those out. Look,
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Colt subscriber, I love Mike. He does great things. Ryan Jackson, Look,
I'm not trying to compete with anybody. We offer courses,
they offer courses, you know what. It's all good for
the industry, everybody. I am never against other educators. Okay,
I think all of us are good for the industry.
Some people listen to other people differently than others, and
some people like a style that one person gives over
the other.
Speaker 1: I think it's great.
Speaker 2: I promote Mike, I promote Ryan, I promote all kinds
of educators. So please don't get me wrong. I appreciate
you folks listening to my flavor of delivery, but I
encourage you to check their out as well. But you
can get our free mobile app that's over on our website.
It's easy to find. It's in the navigation. I won't
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will only put a link on your phone. It will
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some kind of new change in the code or some
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Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: In that mobile app, you got calculators in the Field, Calculators, Vultae,
Drop Calculators, Raceway Field. You have all these great calculators,
but you also have blogs.
Speaker 1: You get access to our.
Speaker 2: Podcasts, you get access to chat features which are only
for people that have the mobile app app, which means
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check that out over on fast Tracks System. That's Trax
by the way, fast Tracks System all one word dot
com and you can get that mobile app. It's again,
it's cloud based. All it does is put a link
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don't believe in putting crap in your phone. I believe
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or the Google Store play store. I think that we
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so all different types of topics that you may find interesting.
Speaker 1: Okay. So anyway, today on the Let's Ask.
Speaker 2: Paul, I got a great question that was submitted and
I like this question because and this one, Darlene kind
of sifted this to me early. I've got a bunch
of them I got to catch up with, but this
one was sifted to me early because it was from
a gentleman that is preparing for an exam and he's
really working on his calculations, and he sends me good
questions that probably that he would have learned if he
was in our program. Ironically, he is not in our
Fast Tracks program. So that just goes to show you
that I answer questions for people, whether or not you're
by our courses or don't, I'm here to help you. Okay.
Speaker 1: You can be a hater if you want.
Speaker 2: You can go over with some of these other forms
and trash me if you want, But you can look
yourself in the mirror and say, do you do as
much for the industry as Paul does, whether it's answering
code questions, putting out products, making courses, doing free videos,
all those type of things.
Speaker 1: Do you do it? But anyway, I digress.
Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and get into the question because this
is going to be a nice little question for us
to dissect.
Speaker 1: Say, I understand your driving.
Speaker 2: I understand that you're listening and you kind I got
to try to paint you this mental picture because that's
the whole concept. And that's why I enjoy podcasting. It's
my number one platform.
Speaker 1: I love videos.
Speaker 2: I love doing training videos, I love doing at But
let me tell you what podcasting is. When I started
doing this, god nearly twenty years ago, what before it
was even called podcasting, recording episodes.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: Because it forces me to paint a mental picture for you.
That's why I love doing it. It's a challenge for me. Okay,
It's not just where I sit here and have two
or three people in the room and we try to
have a banter back and forth and you just listen
in I get it. There's a place for those type
of podcasts. It's not what I do now. I do
have those interviews and I do do those things, but
I like to do lessons in my podcast or explain things.
Speaker 1: It's between me and you.
Speaker 2: It's very personal, and I try to paint this mental
picture that's important for me, paint a mental picture for
the individual so that at the end of the day,
I'm locking something in their mind. So let me read
this question and we'll discuss it, and I'll explain how
this can be confusing for many people.
Speaker 1: Here's the question. It says, good morning, Paul.
Speaker 2: I hope you're having a good time in Vegas, but
I have a question. Now, this is a question that
obviously came from a code database. I can tell you
this individual is not in our fast Tracks program, so
that just again goes to show you I answer questions
for anybody.
Speaker 1: He goes.
Speaker 2: The maximum size of a circuit breaker that can be
installed for one AWGTA feeder tap conductors is blank.
Speaker 1: Amps.
Speaker 2: Let me read that again, because I understand you could
pause and listen later or whatnot. The question is a
maximum sized circuit breaker that can be installed for a
one AWG THHW feeder tap conductor is blank ampiers. Now
focusing on the question, Remember I tell you dissect the
question dissect, dissect, dissect, You got to get used to
doing that. The answer here is, Hey, Paul, what size
breaker do I need for a feeder tap conductor? And
I already have a one AWGTHW What breaker can I
put on that?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: All right, So you're saying, okay, well the maximum sized
circuit breaker for this application. Okay, we'll look at it.
So it's a one gauge. We already know what it is.
One gauge.
Speaker 1: Now what is the opacity of a one gauge?
Speaker 2: Well, since it's THHW, we're going to be in the
seventy five degree column, and under the seventy five degree column.
A one gauge copper always assume copper unless state it otherwise,
is going to be good for one hundred and thirty
amps right now, that is obviously over one hundred amps.
So sixty amps doesn't even come into the sixty degree column,
won't even come into the table one ten dot fourteen C.
We're going to stay in the seventy five degree column.
We also are not doing any adjustment of corrections. So
we're not going to go to the ninety degree column.
We're going to stay right here in the seventy five
degree column. So it's good for one hundred and thirty ams, okay.
So that's what this conductor is good for. So the
answers that are given here, you have four answers. It
says A is one hundred amps, B is one ten,
C is one twenty five, and D is one fifty.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Now he goes on to say the answer they give
and we're uh, we're going and spill the beans here.
The answer they give on the exam prep question that
he has is a one hundred and twenty five ampres Okay,
so that's what they give, one hundred and twenty five
mpires And he goes that doesn't make sense because the
wire is rated for one hundred and thirty amps on
the seventy five degree table. So that's what his that's
his question, okay. So that's that's the question that's that
is on the table. And so what we want to
do is say, okay, well let me help you out here.
First of all, you said it was a tap conductor,
so it tells me it's tap tapping off of a feeder,
and it doesn't give a length, so we will assume.
Speaker 1: You know, people say, well, I hate to assume.
Speaker 2: Well, you can't assume it's over ten feet if it
just says it's a tap conductor. So we'll go with
the baseline, and the baseline is ten feet. If it
doesn't say over ten then you got to go, well,
then it's got to be the baseline if it's a
tap conductor, whether it's six inches one.
Speaker 1: Foot, two foot, three foot, four foot.
Speaker 2: That's the general room. It's going to be obviously the
ten foot rule. If they intended it, well, it could
be the over ten foot. Well it doesn't say that.
It's just says a tap conductor, so we have to
go with the baseline. The baseline is going to be
up to ten feet. So that's the tap rule. Okay,
So when you're thinking about feeder taps, we obviously want
to look at two forty dot twenty one B for
feeder taps. Now, the first thing that we're gonna notice
when we're looking at two forty dot twenty one B
is that there's a little statement in there that says
that you cannot use the next size up rule, right,
so you're not allowed to use and two forty twenty
one B, it'll tell you, guess what, I can't use
the next size up So that's the first thing we
have to remember, no next size up rule.
Speaker 1: So this conductor is good for one hundred and thirty amps.
We got you. Next, we have to look at two forty.
Speaker 2: Twenty one B one one B and that that kind
of depicts the opacity of that tap conductor, and it
says pretty much, uh, I'll just paraphrase it.
Speaker 1: In this scenario.
Speaker 2: The key target here is that it shall not be
less than the rating of the overcurrent protected device.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, in your.
Speaker 2: Mind you're saying, okay, well it's one hundred and thirty
amp rated conductor, then I need one hundred and thirty
amp rated overcurrent device.
Speaker 1: Well, then if you go look.
Speaker 2: At two forty dot six A, guess what there isn't
one hundred and thirty amp overcurrent protected device. So and
again we know that we can't use the next size
up rule because it says it right there in two
forty dot twenty one B. It reminds us we cannot
use the next size up rule. In two forty dot
four B. We cannot jump it up.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So when I go look at two forty dot two
forty dot six A, and I look at two forty
dots six A, and I look at the standard list
of overcurrent protected devices that are given. And when I
look at this list, I see A one twenty five
and then it jumps to A one fifty. And you say, well,
if the conductor is good for one hundred and thirty amps, yeah,
but you gotta remember what it says in two one
B one one B, and so when you go look
at that, you remind yourself. You go, okay, I'll go
look at that, and it says the opacity of the
tap conductor is as follows, not less than the rating
of the equipment containing an overcurrent device supplied by the
tap conductor.
Speaker 1: Or remember the ore, folks, power of ore.
Speaker 2: It's not and it's or this or that it says,
or not less than the rating of the overcurrent protect
device at the termination of the tap conductor. So in
this case, we don't have one hundred and thirty amp
rated overcurrent device. We have A one twenty five. So
could I possibly get a non standard type overcurrent device.
Maybe there's one for one thirty. Yes, but that's not
based on the question. The question gave you four answers,
you have to choose one. So in this case, we
couldn't use the one fifty because that would be obviously
over the one thirty. We can't use an next size
up rule in two forty dot four B because it
told us we couldn't do that. Right in two forty
dot twenty one B in the last sentence, it says
section two forty dot four B shaw not be permitted
for the tap conductor. So since we can't use the
one fifty, and obviously the other ones are irrelevant, the
one ten and one hundred, it's not going to play
a role here, we are forced to use the one
twenty five. So that's why that is the maximum size,
because there isn't a one thirty, and there isn't one
in the choices. Now, you could say in real world, well,
I can go find me a one thirty. Well that's
not the question. That is not when you're answering a
code question and I get there's a lot of people
out there that go, well, I would use the one thirty,
I'd go find a one thirty.
Speaker 1: Shut up.
Speaker 2: This is an exam prep question, you have to answer
it based on but what they give you. Stop trying
to If I got to give advice to people out
there when it comes to preparing for an electric exam,
don't go in there with the knowledge that you have
in the field. Go in there with the knowledge that
you're gonna answer it based on what they ask you.
And that's it. Don't say well, that's not how I
would do it, or it doesn't. It doesn't matter how
you would do it.
Speaker 1: You have to do.
Speaker 2: It based on the nec and based on how they
present the question. And in this case, they only gave
four answers, one hundred five and one to fifty. Will
you know it can't be one fifty because you can't
use an excise up allowance. The conductor is only good
for one thirty. So I'm not going to terminate it
on a one fifty, okay. So the only logical answer
is one twenty five. Okay, So obviously I'm not going
to use one ten or one hundred. I'm not gonna
you know, it's it's like getting It's like getting a
bag of chips with nothing but fifty percent of air
in it. Okay, that's a waste. Yeah, it happens, but
it's a waste. I want to get as much as
I can out of it. Well, they don't make an
overcurrent device that's rated one thirty. That is a standard size,
that's in the standard list of forty dot six A.
So the logical answer here is the maximum size based
on all these rules that I just threw out at you,
that it's going to be one hundred and twenty five.
So the answer is one twenty five. Even though that
conductor is rated for one thirty. The overcurrent device in
this case, for this tap is going to be one
twenty five, And that means you have to be understand
your loads. You have to understand these rules and make
sure that you've actually done a load calculation so that
you know that these tap conductors are going to be
able to handle specific loads that type of thing, and it's.
Speaker 1: Probably going to terminate. Be honest with you.
Speaker 2: In a one twenty five device probably going to be
a one twenty five panel. Be honest with you, The
conductor is going to be one good for one thirty.
That's fine, five amps to spare if you will, but
at the end of the day, perfectly acceptable and so
one twenty five is your answer here, and that explains
how we got that answer. Okay, all right, fairly short
podcast today. I'm just kind of getting my boots back
in the set of in here, back in the office.
Been away for a couple of days out of the
Nittmams out in Vegas.
Speaker 1: It was a great time. Great people.
Speaker 2: Got to have breakfast with Mike Holt. We had a
great conversation. Brian House works for him and Mario Valdez.
Great guys represent Mike Holton then very well, great gentlemen.
We had a great breakfast. It was a great fellowship.
I appreciate Mike for doing that. And again, everybody out there,
Ryan Jackson, everybody that I saw out there, Great to
see you all.
Speaker 1: Vince Delacrotes, saw you.
Speaker 2: Didn't get a chance to talk a lot to you
because you were busy, busy, busy, little beaver. But again,
saw a bunch of you out there. I was able
to catch up with my counterparts with the other wiring
cable manufacturers to say hey, what's up.
Speaker 1: And it was just a great time.
Speaker 2: And the next time you will catch me at an
event will be at the NIKA. I will be at
the NICA in Chicago, So if you'd love to catch
up with me, come on out to the NICA. You
really do need to come if you've never been to
ANICA before. You get to go around and look at
the new stuff from the manufacturers, put your hand stuff,
ask those technical questions of different products.
Speaker 1: It's a great time.
Speaker 2: It's it's really in a lot of those social media
people that do their little videos, they call them influence
or I can't stand that term, but they'll be out
there and you can say hey to them.
Speaker 1: If you want.
Speaker 2: It's just a good time and the NIKA events are
always great, so every electrician should at least attend one.
Speaker 1: Uh and this year it's in Chicago. Don't ask me
for the date.
Speaker 2: Google it online NIKA n ECA twenty twenty five Convention
and uh it's in Chicago, So that'll give you a
hint where it's at when you go looking online.
Speaker 1: And UH I encourage you to visit, spend a day
or two. It's usually huge.
Speaker 2: You're gonna have to take a day or two to
really absorb all of the manufacturers. I'm going to be
at the Prismium en Core wire booth answering technical questions
and signing your codebooks if you want it, or whatever
you want, I'll be there. Ask me anything you want,
and I'll be at the I'll be at the show
every day of the ANICA event. So look forward to
seeing you there. All right, folks, Tell next time, say safe,
God bless it. We'll catch you on another episode of
Let's Ask Paul, the podcast where you get to ask
me anything you want about the National Electrical Code.