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Speaker 1: Meaning a live man like this man letting butterfly flapping.
Speaker 5: His wings, dig down in a forest. Man, it gonna
cause a tree.
Speaker 1: Fall, letting five thousand miles away.
Speaker 5: Man, nobody seen, nobody else, you know, need no man,
We don't like you fall. Then you get back that
last man, go back and pann don't get better man.
Speaker 6: Okay, yeah, I'll tell you know. It's a good recording,
right when you record ten minutes of a podcast before
you can get going. But uh, Gord, dude, it's great
to have you back on, man.
Speaker 5: Mister Burden, what a pleasure to be here. Thanks for
having me, and Merry Christmas to you and your audience.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Merry Christmas to you as well. So last time
I had you on and we discussed sort of when
a lot of people myself included, became aware of like
trucking as a safety issue, right because you know, these
two Indian guys you crossed a two lane highway and
you killed a family of four.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 6: Obviously, since then a lot has happened. There have been
some positive developments, the deaths have continued. I think a
lot of people were made aware of it, and once
that inciting incident came out, sort of like that, you know,
poor girl Arena who was killed, all of a sudden
people are looking for it. And you know, in the
case of public transport, you realize, oh, okay, public transport
is just playing Russian Roulette with getting stabbed by a schizophrenic.
And similarly, I think a lot of people, myself included,
just assumed that truckers probably knew what they were doing.
And once you see that, you're like, oh, wait, this
is a problem. I know you've been talking about it
for a long time, but you know, if you could,
could you say, you know what has developed since that,
you know, dramatic incident in Florida?
Speaker 5: Right, well, thanks again for having me, sir. What's happened
since this incident in Florida in August? I mean, the
sort of pressure on this issue is starting to build already,
because there was a number of incidents beforehand. And if
you're me and a handful of people on trucking Twitter,
that pay attention to this. It's a daily occurrence almost,
but you know, it's hard to break into the zeitgeist
because you know, there's always been collisions, There's always been accidents,
and the frequency is increasing, but the people involved are
a different group of people. So since August, we've had
a number of other crashes. There was one in Oregon
last week. Yet another illegal some guy who showed up
in America illegally from India given a CDL in California
wiped out a pair of newlyweds in an accident near Bend, Oregon.
We had an accident in Washington State. I hate to
use the word accident. These were collisions, These were preventable,
these were collisions. Accidents are accidents, collisions. We could have
stopped it. So we have a guy driving a truck
in Washington State runs into traffic, doesn't kill anybody. I
think a few people got hurt, but you know, investigation
turns out this dude was picked up once already for
being in the country illegally, and because it's Washington State,
you know they're not gonna do anything about this, so
they just let them go. And we're sort of seeing
if you zoom out and watch what's happened since the
Florida thing. We are getting a lot of focus from
the administration from Transportation Secretary Duffy, a newly appointed head
of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, Derek Bars is
trying to do something. President Trump is trying to do something.
The bureaucracy, the administrative state, and a lot of governors
are not cooperating whatsoever. And we see this tension also
to a lesser extent in Congress, where you know, the
administration wants to clean house, but there are an awful
lot of moneyed interests who you know, pay for lobbyists
and buy Congress critters who never want the flow of
cheap labor turned off. And they're even proposing a piece
of legislation that says it's going to do a whole
bunch of stuff about the English language thing and the
dodgy CDLs. But it leaves this huge back door to say, hey,
we're going to leave it up to the secretary to
determine when there's an actual labor need and if the
visas are correct, and if all that stuff lines up
according to the secretary, these guys can still keep coming
and still be given non domicile CDLs, so they you know,
smoking mirrors, We're gonna well, yeah, we're gonna do something
about all these high profile incidents you guys see in
videos every day on social media. But over here, no, no, no,
no cheap labor, we want the cheap labor. Yeah.
Speaker 6: I was, honestly, I thought that there were there were
two states I noticed in particular that had what, from
my perspective, were good reactions. Ron DeSantis is obviously almost out,
but nonetheless he gave an impassioned speech basically saying like
this is unacceptable, This is no longer something we're gonna
allow in our state. Saw similar things, I believe from
the governor of Oklahoma, whose name I don't know off
the top of my head. I'm not just trying to
quiz you here, but was there has there been an
appropriate response from on the state level, because clearly they
have some level of say over you know, who gets
issued CDLs, right.
Speaker 5: So CDLs are supposed to be recognized federally, and the
Feds are supposed to make sure that you'll only have
one right because back in the day, long long time ago,
you would get a CDL in one state and then
if you ain't racked up a bunch of points or
gotten accidents, you just get one in another state and
keep going. The FEDS are supposed to be in charge
of the system, which prevents that. However, they are issued
by the states, and the states have a lot of
jurisdiction and training standards, and you know how they do
their testing. And some states are good. Some states have
realized there's a problem, especially Oklahoma 'ron DeSantis. I'm a
little bit. He's made a lot of cases. Yeah, he's
made a lot of noise, but his state is one
of the epicenters of the problem. We have a lot
of really dodgy commercial drivers License school CDL mills down
around Miami. We have a lot of dodgy DMVs. One
of the biggest bribery busts in the sort of history
of giving out CDLs to people for cash took place
in Florida. So Governor DeSantis can make all the noise
he wants, But Florida is actually probably one of the
like top five or six states for this shit going on.
So mister DeSantis, like clean up your own backyard blaze.
Texas is another one. Texas has probably got more of
these non domiciled CDLs than anybody else. So like you,
you know, you and I spend some time on sort
of quote unquote right wing Twitter or whatever, and everyone's
always like New York, California, all these Democrats. It's like, no, guys, no, no, no, no, no,
this is not a red blue thing. They're all in
on it. And you know, again, we've seen some positive developments.
But to give you an idea of what some of
the sort of more I don't want to use the
term smoking mirrors, but people get they see things in
the media, but they don't understand what those terms mean
or the nuances of them. Right. So, there was a
big announcement here a week or two ago, maybe a
few days ago about you know, Secretary Duffy said, we've
pulled ninety five hundred drivers off the road thus far
for being unable to speak English language to our standards
to get a CDL Okay, great, What does that actually mean?
They were placed out of service. Out of service is
a technical enforcement term that says the driver is no
longer allowed to drive the truck until they fix the problem,
the problem being they don't speak English very well. The
issue is the enforcement of that they say, hey, you're
out of service, they write you a ticket, listen, pardon me.
But then sometimes the driver just gets right back on
the truck and keeps going. There's been documented cases where
a guy has been placed out of service and then
busted hours later, or in the same state the next
day at another inspection station. Again they were placed out
of service, but they just get back in the truck
right like a lot of these people don't care, and
the companies they work for, these small little companies, often
run by migrants themselves, also don't care. They'll just tell
the driver, We'll just go to bed or whatever, disappear
and you come back tomorrow getting your truck in the
middle of the night or when nobody's around, and they
just keep going right because the cops don't seize your keys,
they don't seize or and pound the truck. I think
they're doing that in Oklahoma, but as far as I know,
none of the other states are doing the hard yards
to get these guys actually off the road and out
of service. Order is our violation is basically a fine.
The government tells you you're not supposed to drive, but
then that's it. Where's the rest of the enforcement. Some
states are not enforcing this at all. California very famously
has only issued one English language proficiency violation since President
Trump and Secretary Duffy reinforce this old regulation that the
Obama administration had waived. California is not playing ball, right
And then you know, again, hats off to Oklahoma. Oklahoma
and a few other states have been cooperating with ICE
and you know, the ICE has shown up at inspection stations.
Turns out the people in the truck are here illegally.
Ice takes them away. Great, that's not happening in a
whole bunch of states. And as we just saw in
Washington with this crazy crash the other day, Washington just
get lets these people go. You know, I'm assuming the
same thing happens in other places. And then the issue
of these licenses. Right Like, Secretary Duffy has made a
number of public announcements saying like, if states don't play ball,
we're gonna pull funding from them. The problem is is
that Gavin Newsom in California is a great example of this, right, Like,
Duffy said something like We're gonna pull forty million in
federal funding from California, California has got the fifth largest
economy on planet Earth. Right, forty million dollars is a
rounding error in California's budget. Right, So this, this is
a great threat from Duffy. But you know, Newsom is
just like whatever, I don't care. We're just gonna do
things the way we want to do them to like
rub shit in the nose of the Republicans and Donald Trump,
and we're just not cooperating and they're not well.
Speaker 6: And especially it's like and look, I get it, like
Duffy's only got certain cards to play, and like, I
get it, that's that's probably the top thing he can pull.
But to your point, like one forty million dollars a
lot to you or me, it is not to the
state of California. Also, this is assuming the State of
California cares about a balanced budget at all, given the
absolute debacle of that you know, light rails train they're
supposed to be building, you know, connecting I think La
and San Diego clearly they do not. You know, it's
not it's not a threat to that they cared about this,
we would not be in the situation we are. And
I think that that you know, that enforcement element is,
you know, a consistent complaint that many people have have
had towards this administration, which is like, look like you're
saying great stuff, but if you're not willing to inform it,
if you're not willing to actually make it happen, then
you might as well not be saying anything at all.
And like, as you said, obviously states like Oklahoma, they're
doing the lord's work. People are as much as they
can solving this issue in some instances. But if it's
just a ticket, tickets can be paid.
Speaker 5: Or not paid, people'll just keep going. So Oklahoma, great,
I'm glad you keep bringing up Oklahoma. You know, awesome work, guys.
But like the people who have orchestrated this replacement operation
of the American truck driver, people who are coming here
from other countries realizing there's all these holes in the
system that they can profit from it and then take
all the money back home and remittances.
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Speaker 8: His faded at said Lavai Marta Valleixula I couldn't shoul
their father's staffer to Twig too month, his fader Larene
trog two will you rudder Organ will flee along when
you know the two couldn't Rushiora, he's doing too much
to the Tatavala Contorto, Marvin Twig, Tomans Fiji Passenery Ugostinil
not tom tour court at Rsa Ponkai.
Speaker 5: They're not giving up on the paypeg. We're not giving
up on parasitizing themselves on us. Okay, there's been reports
that there's a couple of routes sort of like two
lane United States Highways through Kansas that are now full
of these guys. Right, They're like, okay, cool, we can't
go through a if we're going to East, well just
cut up through Kansas. There's a fellow trucking Twitter driver
was telling us about you know, we went to this
little truck stop in Kansas and like ninety five percent
of the people there were these you know, non domiciled
migrant drivers. He spoke with the staff at the truck stop.
They said, Yep, there's been a big spike in this
in the last couple of months, and that's because of
ocala coloma. So they're just avoiding it. I'm getting lots
of reports online of a lot of trucks are now
moving at night when there's less enforcement going on. I
have a contact on Twitter, a young lady named Miranda
at Trucking Made Successful. She does her own YouTube show.
She's very tied into the Eastern European trucking community. She
speaks Rock, Ukrainian and Russian, and she monitors their telegram
channels and their social media. And those guys are just
being very flippant about this. They're like, we're not leaving,
We're not We're not gonna go. We're not and let
this scare us. We'll just figure it out.
Speaker 9: Right, And you have.
Speaker 5: Trucking companies. A lot of people online are saying, what
about the companies?
Speaker 10: Right?
Speaker 5: Great question, a thing that a lot of people don't
understand about this particular issue is that it's not like
Walmart or Amazon or you know, big trucking company X
are hiring these people directly because they can't and they won't. Right,
Walmart is not going to hire some illegal alien or
somebody that doesn't speak English for their own trucks that
Walmart owns. Amazon mostly doesn't have their own trucks. They
use what's called the power only model, so they hire
subcontractors to pull all of Amazon's trailers around between Amazon's
distribution centers and to bring product into their distribution centers.
And a number of very large trucking companies are also
jumping on this bandwagon. It was sort of started by FedEx.
FedEx really started off with the power only model years
and years ago with domestic owner operators, and over time,
this power only model, where you hire a subcontractor that
owns the truck, pulls your trailers for you, it's really
really taken off in the last few years, and it's
taking advantage of all these small companies, often owned by
migrants themselves, who only employ migrants. They actively discriminate against
American and Canadian drivers. They will not hire locals because
they're getting away with a bunch of different things that
we would not put up with right low pay. They're
backdoring elds. So electronic logging devices are these mandated tracking
systems and big trucks that started being a lawed be
in trucks at the end of twenty seventeen that was
sold to US as a way to keep everybody honest
and safe about how many hours they were working. Of
course it's been compromised, and these companies that typically hire
migrant drivers, they have offices and other countries because everything's
on the internet now, and they backdoor into the ELD
rewrite everybody's hours, make it seem like, oh, you had
a cod driver, but you dropped him off in this
other town and we here's his CDL and you can
just say that he was driving the whole time and
you can keep going. And they do this and they
allow they slave drive these guys. Right, So there's a
certain component of the story where these small migrant zone
trucking companies they abuse their co ethnic homeboys and they
just tell them, look, man, you can come to America
and make tons of money. Ay, you're gonna work sixteen, eighteen,
twenty hours a day, but it's more money than you're
ever gonna make at home. Do what we tell you,
and if you don't like it too bad, we'll hire
somebody else. Right, And there's these there's just these guys
being cycled in and out of trucks, and it's a
whole system that has arisen over the last few years
by just opportunists who realize all the holes, realize it's
hard to get caught, and the very large shippers in
America are happy to use them. But then sometimes the
large shippers will say, well, we don't know about this
because we use a freight broker. Well, the freight brokers
know about it. So the freight brokers like, hey, cool man,
I'm going to use this guy that's from Russia or
Krigistan or Ethiopia, and he's going to abuse his homeboys
and give me a good rate. I turn around and
sell it back to Amazon or whatever company. I keep
a percentage. Those guys get their stuff moved. Everybody's happy
except motorists on the road who get unalived by these
folks who have no idea what they're doing. They don't
understand anything about North American driving culture. They don't know
how to drive in the winter. They don't know how
to read the signs for information. There's just a lot
of basic incompetence that's just spread throughout the industry. And
I know I'm rambling on here. They come at me
with a morse pacific question, but like it's just so huge.
There's just so much going on here.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I think that that's you know, I'm glad
you brought up earlier that this is this is not
really a red or blue issue. That and we've seen
this over and over again that you know, shure, they're
the you know, the hardcore right wingers, you know, as
much as that exists, and you know, the Republican Party
that are firmly anti immigration. But I mean, uh, you know,
what's his name, wheels down in Texas, Greg Abbott, Right,
despite the fact that this is this ruby red state,
you know, the most conservative area in America, he shows
up at Dwally, Right, he's you know, building or allowing
to be built these you know, massive effectively like you
know ghettos, right, They whether they're Indian or pakstandy diaspora,
either way, as long as the money is flowing, he
doesn't care. And I mean you see the same thing
with the with the you know, the issue surrounding labor.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 6: Obviously there's there's big inputs from you know, from unions
right from the trucking companies themselves who want certain things done.
But a big part of it is, and we've seen
this with housing or seen this with anything else, is
that like, you know, what is a problem for you
is a solution for them, and they get way more
money from people who want cheap labor than they do
from people who want to get paid by their labor, right,
And we see it across the board, you know, like
these these one of the again, the kind of handoffs
that we've seen is you know, ending or at least
you know, severely restricting illegal immigration and just doing the
same thing, but you know, throwing them at a student
visa or you know, throwing them a work visa or
something like that. And you know, there's kind of been
this slow rolling you know, like tide of globalism and
obviously it hit you know, domestic manufacturing first. You know,
it hit construction. It kind of went through the trades,
at least the ones where you don't need to be
you know, bonded and apprenticed and all that, which is
if you're wondering why plumbers and electricians so much money,
that's why it's one of the few industries that's protected
that way. And you know, now it's hitting trucking or
already has. But I think what's interesting is it's starting
to hit laptop jobs, right, it's starting to hit the
middle class, in the upper middle class. And look, man, like,
you know, I've worked in the trades. I have a
college degree, like, that's what my career path was set
out for. And when I talked to guys like me,
you know, in my similar situation. You know, one of
the best is Peruvian bull Ricardo Rio, super smart guy.
And I just asked him offhand because I knew the
answer before I asked him. I was like, hey, man,
how many job applications have you sent out? How many
of you heard back from? And he told me he
sent out six hundred job applications. Now I believe that
because I have also set out multiple hundred, Like, did
the things you were supposed to do right to escape
that sort of problem, right, make yourself specialized, get all
the training, and then you realize your labor pool just
like everyone else, just like the gross chuds. I put
that in quotes because that's what you're told the whole time, like, oh,
you be smart, don't do something with your hands, do
something where they can't, you know, outsource it. Well, guess
what they figured out a way how to do that.
You know, you mentioned the way that all of this
is you know, done via the internet. One of the
things that you know you've seen going around is this
footage from Manhattan where they've got you know, cashiers calling
in from the Philippines, you know, working on a screen,
you know, because they'll do it for three dollars an hour.
But you know the same thing, right, we've just made
it legal. Now we've given them a visa which says
it's okay to you know, hire a software engineer from
Bangladesh or you know, hire these jobs that were supposed
to be you know, proofed against that sort of stuff.
And the reason I say that is like, look like,
you know, I've you know, worked manuel jobs. That's an
important thing. It's a good thing. But the idea that
you can just educate yourself out of this, you can
you know, get one of these laptop jobs. Like no,
it's coming for you too, It's coming for everyone.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Well, something something that was very very hot across the
internet here in the last couple of days is this
article from Compact magazine from the guy's named Josh Savage
or something and and and discusses the systematic discrimination against
you know, white males gen z gen actor, you know,
millennials for all kinds of jobs, mostly sort of you know,
maybe not working class jobs, but next tiers up. There's
been a lot of stirm and drying about this article.
It's gone haywire, gazillions of views. Everybody's talking about it,
and it's just of a piece of the sort of
wider replacement of labor here. And it's like nobody is
safe from labor arbitrage, right, And.
Speaker 6: I mean, book man, I'm sure you remember, you know,
the big edgy thing that you know, journalists were saying
to miners and truck drivers fifteen years Yeah, well guess what,
that doesn't work anymore, you know, I I know a
lot of guys are in that field, and it's like
unless you've got ten to fifteen years experience, and then
even then you're not safe, like you're just cooked. Sorry,
I just wanted to interject that, because like that's a
line that we've had forced down our throats for as
long as I've been alive.
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, and everyone, and I think this gentleman who
wrote this piece of the same thing. Everyone's trying to
do things as we were told to do them, and
it's still not enough. I'm you know, I on one hand,
I'm sympathetic to sort of old labor left arguments about like,
you know, you have to look after the workers and
capital has to be rained in at some point, and
you know, the sort of like capitalist logic of always
wanting to like squeeze the most out of everything. I
get all that stuff. But it's interesting how in this
day and age, like right now, the left is nowhere
to be found protecting working class people, ruling class people,
laptop chap case people. They don't care. The left has
been completely usurped by identity politics, and they have been
willing foot soldiers to turning everybody into globalized beije human
resources slurry and just leveling everybody down to whatever the
lowest common denominator of the entire fucking world is. Let
me share some things with you, right, So, I've written
this book. It's called End of the Road. Inside the
War on Truckers. It comes out in March. It talks
a little bit about some of the immigration scamming and
all the crashes.
Speaker 11: And another square story from toblerone work Christmas Do time
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shaped like mince pies but added Tobler and diamond truffles
just in case. She unwraps the bath bombs silence, then
the blir own truffles, velvety diamond shaped chocolates with a
crunchy new golf filling. Oh big smiles from Tina. Whatever
you give at a diamond just in case, table around
never square.
Speaker 9: And Google cook de Glaire, tom Hook doganer row Her
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Speaker 5: Christmas English Language proficiency and how that correlates with like
scammy trucking companies who are unsafe and all the things
I I have sent out advanced review copies to people
for blurbs and for publications to write reviews as the
book comes out in March, and a couple of folks
on the left have either totally ignored me get I
get no response. I had one gentleman say that I
was too hard on the Biden administration and their Trucking
Action Plan, which we can draw a direct line to
all the things we're seeing out there today. We have
the receipts, it's in. It's uncontroversial. Everybody admits that all
the crap we're seeing right now is mostly to blame
from them and this and this Trucking Action Plan, not
all of it. There's a long history that brought us
to that beforehand, but they made it much much worse.
This guy believes that, like, no, man, it's not just them,
it's the ATA. I can't sign on to this because
you know I it's not. You can't just blame Biden administration, Okay, whatever.
I mean, Everything left coded and right coded now has
prevented people, specifically on the left, from actually dealing with problems. Right,
I wanted to so myself and a colleague, we're gonna
do a podcast, right. I have my own podcast, you know,
Voice of Gord, and I talk about all kinds of
trucking stuff and some other things. One of the things
I discuss is the implementation and the on, you know,
the sort of over the horizon approach of robotic vehicles,
autonomous vehicle systems. Right, autonomous trucks. That's why you know
autonomous truckers. I sort of the name of my substack
is a play on that. And there's a guy who
hosts a podcast that talks about industrial revolutions. It's quite popular.
It's one of these sort of history nerd podcasts. I
was put in touch with them. I said, hey, man,
you want to come on my show. Let's talk about
you know, fourth Industrial Revolution and truckers. Let's go. And
he's like, yeah, man, I'll be there, let's do it.
This sounds great. Two days before I was supposed to
record the show, this guy finally does his homework, goes
through my substack, discovers that I've defended the Freedom Convoy
in Canada, interprets that that I'm an anti vaxxer, even
though I never talk about vaccines and I don't care
you do you that's my approach to that stuff, not
because I defended the Freedom Convoy and he was looking
through my substack of my podcasts. In his head, he
was going to face you know, issues if you talk
to me, right, So he sends me this email. He's like, hey, man,
you're an anti vaxxer. I don't know what we're going
to talk about. Like I'm gonna I'm gonna suffer reputational
harm if I show up on your podcast. So I
send him an email back. I'm like, we're not talking
about vaccines, Freedom Convoy, and we're talking about autonomous trucks,
industrial revolutions, that's what you talk about. We're keeping it
on that level. And he's like, no, man, I can't
talk to you. I go and I do a little
more digging about this guy. Turns out he worked for
the Democrats for ten years. So, like, I hate to
say it, if you're a person who's watching this or
listening to me, you know, I'm at heart, I'm kind
of a libertarian populist. I want the government to be
kept small and to mostly leave people alone, but do
the necessary things that's supposed to do mostly for the people, right,
and I mean people in the country are supposed to
look after. I think the left has been totally mind
raped by this idea that we are supposed to just
accept that, like the entire world gets to move here.
And one of the things I want to talk about too,
I want to point out to folks that are watching
everything happening on the highways. Right, we see all these accidents,
We see the trucking industry being completely parasitized by these
foreign actors. It's all in one direction, right, much like
other labor, like construction labor, all these different things, they're
all coming here. Americans and Canadian truck drivers are not
moving to the Punjab wearing like a plaid jacket like
I am drinking a tim Orton's coffee, crashing trucks in
India and killing innocent Indians.
Speaker 6: How many hell are that idea for a common By
the way, yeah.
Speaker 5: It's a great idea for a comedy, but in reality
that has happened zero times zero. There's other countries Canadian
truck drivers getting in accidents and taking the jobs of
Russians or Serbians. Zero people like to come at me
and say, you know, oh, man, that's not very nice
to Indians. Zero racist. I'm like, it's not just India,
it's India, it's Africa, it's the fucking Philippines, it's Eastern Europe.
All kinds of people are coming here, and it's all
in one direction. Nobody can find me, not one, not one.
I've been asking for months and years. Now, find me
an example of someone from here going to other countries
and doing the same thing. Zero. But we are supposed
to accept, on pain of being called racist and cast
out of consideration for inclusion in this sort of democratic
contestation about our own countries if we do not accept
this parent time where we have to just let all
these people come in here, take our jobs, do them poorly,
take all the money out and remittances, and send them
back home. So like today's immigration is not your granddaddy's immigration, right,
All of these people that are coming here and doing this,
they're not stupid. They can look on Zillo, they can
look at the price of real estate, they see the
cost of living, and they're like, fuck this shit, man,
We're just taking the gringoes money and going home with it.
They have no intentions of immigrating here. They know they
can't afford it. Why would they, So it's a total
parasitization operation. And whose asses are coming out of mine?
I'm not doing that to them. No other truck driver
here is doing that to these people over there. So
it's just like, guys, like, what are we doing here?
Speaker 6: No? One hundred percent. I like that term you use
for the left because I think it's particularly accurate, right,
like they got they got raped by capital like that
that the left is owned completely and totally and you know,
their initial class based analysis. The idea that you know,
we should you know, defend either the work or that
we should you know, have some sort of equity in
that way has been completely and totally globalized. And when
it's globalized, it becomes so non specific. Right, it's like, well,
I don't have to deal with you know, some guy
here that, let's be honest, I look down on I
don't like I think I'm better than well, I could
have this kind of vague general compassion for humanity just
writ large. You know, it was the line about you
know Stalin right where it's like he had a great
deal of sympathy for humanity in general and almost none
for humanity in particular. Right, it's like the same thing.
And you know, one of the things I've been interested
in is as this problem works its way up through
the middle and upper middle class, who is you know,
relatively speaking, either quite progressive or at least attuned to
progressive sensibilities, right, they don't want to be seen as
a gross, nasty populist. The question that always comes to
me is like, well, when does this When does this break?
When does this bend? Because it's now gone from being
this kind of like vague general idea. You know of
someone who I don't know, who lives in a gross
area of the country I don't want to go to
he's losing his job. Well, dude, it's your company now,
Like you don't get your you know, comfy laptop job
in LA anymore, because it isn't in La anymore. Either
we brought someone else here, or we sent it somewhere.
Speaker 5: Else, right, We sent it to Mombay, Right, And I'm.
Speaker 6: Assuming there's going to be some kind of movement there.
We haven't seen it yet. But one of the things
I think about a lot is like, look, I'm not
a huge economics guy. But like everyone's getting just demolished
by inflation and cost of living, you know, across the
entire West. And a friend of mine was doing some calculations.
It basically came up that you to be middle class,
like basically to have enough to meet all your ends
and to save at a rate which beats inflation, right
to actually grow something, you need to be making like
one hundred and forty k us, which is a hell wag.
And so now you start to think, you're like, okay, well,
all those laptop jobs. You're living in Manhattan, you're living
in DC, you're living in LA We're making like a
buck twenty. Wait a minute, that's a lot of money
compare to what I make, compared to a lot of
people make. But you're not really doing that well, are you.
You're probably making less in real terms, both like just
the dollar amount and also just compared to your cost
of living. Then you know some electrician out in the
middle in Biloxi, Mississippi, right where he can buy a
house for eighty grand, you know, and then you start
to think like, oh, this makes a little bit of sense,
because these these platitudes about immigration, about all these kind
of progressive values well, they do the same thing that
money used to do, which is it makes you better
than that person, you know, whereas before you'd be richer,
now you're morally superior. And it seems as if that
matters a lot more for a lot of people being
better than the chuds, right, the term they use for
kind of flyover Americans. I assume there's a Canadian version
of it where it's like this dismissive like the the
dirt people. You know, it's by a dear departed friend.
Zy Man would say, you know, and we cloud people
were better than them, and we have the values of
people who were better and it's it's one of those
things where it's like, apparently you could take a pretty
big hit to your pocketbook and that still doesn't matter.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, you can take a hit to your
pocket book. You can't take a hit to your driver's
side door at seventy miles an hour. I hate to
be I hate to be flippant about this or make
light of tragedies and collisions, but like, thousands of people
are being killed on our roads every year, and those
incidents keep going up, and a lot they're involve an
awful lot of people who shouldn't be here, either they're illegals,
or they were migrants or refugees that were issued CDLs
under questionable circumstances.
Speaker 6: I mean, just normal driver's licenses.
Speaker 10: Right.
Speaker 6: I'm sure you remember with the whole you know, Haitian
resettlement in Ohio.
Speaker 10: Right.
Speaker 6: One of the big things that everyone is talking about
is no one could figure out why insurance premiums, you know,
for like your mom's Toyota Corolla had gone through the roof.
And it turns out the answer is you given thousands
of people who do not know how to drive a car,
a driver's license and a free car, right, what do
you think is gonna happen?
Speaker 5: Yeah? No, no, no, no no, And that's happening and trucking.
I don't want to give too much from my book away,
but I talked to a couple of people in the
insurance and sort of lawyering industries about this, and everybody's
insurance is going up, and it's not just cars, right,
Like that's a great anecdote about like you know, Springfield, Charlovoy,
all these places, Charlotte roy in Pennsylvania, all these towns
that have been like gone through these crazy you know
replacement things where NGOs and nonprofits working with the government
just air drop in all these refugees and people from
other countries and refugees in air quotes because they're not
most of them are just economic migrants. And then we
have to deal with it. And we're seeing the same
thing in trucking where you know, everybody always asks me like,
holy cow man, like how did this guy with like
no experience just get insured? Because a lot back in
the day when I was a young guy, when I
was eighteen nineteen, I was extremely lucky to work for
a trucking company that would pay the extra money to
ensure my sorry ass. They kept me close. I only
worked around the Toronto area. I didn't get very far away.
They kept me on a short leash. But like today,
you know, there's three major insurance companies. I think it's Guyco,
Progressive and one of the other ones that are giving insurance.
These are the bigger insurance behind the small insurance brokers,
and they are issuing policies.
Speaker 12: A Christmas visit to Dondrum with Mom and stuff followed
and Santa sac on the twenty fourth at the ice rink,
she's clutching the edge. Well, my little one is lapping
us in brown. Thomas's spraying the perfumes around like air fresheners.
We do Harvey Nichols and always Reese m Ands. She
gets browsed on at Edvard and Pink talk about a
new face. Then it's Katsu's and Wagamama and a Hansel
and Gretel Panto with the male theater. Later I drop
her home and Mom says, thank you, Pet. Best day
out in ages, search Dondrum Town Center and make a
day of it this Christmas.
Speaker 5: To these companies owned and run by migrants who are
employing their co ethnic homeboys who have zero experience breaking
the law by not even knowing English to begin with.
And it's happening. So like I think, I think a
way to stop this, you know, like Duffy's doing the
English language thing us dot ices at certain places. That's
all good, but it doesn't address the like root cutoffs.
And at some level I think the insurance companies need
to be brought into account, Like for years they would
never ensure a local to drive a truck until they
were twenty one or twenty five. That all these tiers,
you know, some big companies that like self insured could
get away with like young ages or least amount of experience.
There was a study done by Virginia Tech a few
years back about what's the difference with truck driver accidents?
Is there a difference in age or like amount of experience?
And they found it was actually the amount of experience
that was the key factor. It wasn't age. Well, when
you show up here yesterday from Ethiopia and some NGO
pays for you to go to a scummy two week
long CDL school to get you a CDL and get
your working right away. You don't speak English, you don't
know anything about American driving culture. You don't know anything
about the physics of operating an eighty thousand pound vehicle.
You probably didn't drive when you lived in Ethiopia, wherever
the hell you came from, and now you're here being
Billy Bigregor. I want the folks in ensuring these companies
hauled before some kind of inquisition with teeth. There's there's
been some talk there's probably a term some of your
listeners have heard about called chameleon carriers. And what's happened
is you'll see videos of this where like some guy
in flip flops or whatever ethnic dress, gets out of
his truck and he's got like a piece of paper
or a cardboard on the side of his truck with
tape on it, and takes that off and puts up
another one with new registration numbers and whatnot. These companies,
these small, scummy little companies that contract to Amazon and
everybody else, Fat Acts, all the rest of them, they
eventually get caught. They run up points, their drivers get
in trouble for breaking the rules, their trucks or pieces
of shit. They get constant inspections. And what they do
is they just have a different registration number and a
different LLC and they just put up a new name
on the truck and keep going. It's the same people,
same drivers, same equipment. The government knows about this, but
they have not put any effort towards enforcing it right.
And one of the problems is is that these companies
are registered to these LLCs that are registered at an
apartment complex. There's no trucks there, there's no business there,
there's no nothing. All of this is illegal. They could
be shut down tomorrow. The government's not doing it. What
does that tell you when the government knows about a problem.
They know who the bad actors are, they know exactly
what's going on, yet they don't do anything about it.
I think there's a popular term on the dissident right
called Anarco tyranny, and I think we're seeing that in trucking,
where it's like, nah, well, you know, we'll do inspections.
We'll have a few states do the thing, like Oklahoma.
But the Feds know all of this is happening.
Speaker 2: They do.
Speaker 5: I've talked to people who've relayed my information to them.
A number of my associates have been working with USDOT.
I'm not going to name names. They know, they know
the FMCSA as an organization, as a federal department that's
supposed to be doing something about this, they're they're not,
and I want them to. I don't know if they're
going to. Maybe they are. They've been making noise about it.
They said, oh, you know, Derek Barr, is this new
guys like, yeah, we're gonna come after you. Okay, cool?
I await proof.
Speaker 6: Well and like taking that an Arco tieranny point building
it out a little bit. When you have this system
where it's like, if you're willing to cheat, you can
just dodge all responsibility. Well, it creates this whole like
perverse incentive because if you're doing things by the book,
you're kind of an idiot, like not literally, but like
you are losing out right, you could be saving more
money and bearing no cost for breaking the rules. And
so if you're one of these you know, mid sized
companies who assume if they you know, they exist, But
like if you're a company that actually wants to play
things straight, that wants to do things right, you're equally
getting screwed because all your competitors can do whatever they
need to to get a bid to pay, to pay
their guys less, and if you mess up, you might
actually bear consequences for it. But if you're one of
these you know, crappy little LLCs registered to someone else's
apartment and I don't know, you know, pick your random
city of choice. Even if they do, you know, go
through the effort, you're never gonna have to bear consequences
for it, right, Because again the whole thing is, you know,
cheating is incentivized at every level, Like what do you
think is gonna happen?
Speaker 5: Right? Well, and and again you know the cheating is
incentivized and because so much of so many of our
businesses and industries can be administered and run by people
who aren't even here. And this is one of the
rubs with trucking, right, So, like this is why some
chameleon carrier, some company run by Russians or Ukrainians or
Serbs or Ethiopians or Pakistanis or whoever, they'll have like uh,
they'll they'll have some empty apartment in a complex in
California or Springfield or Saint Louis or Chicago or wherever,
and they're not even here. You even if you wanted
to like get past the narco tyranny and actually enforce
the rules, you can't. They're administering everything. They're sending dispatch
and instructions to their drivers on telegram. They have they
have an off they have some other guy in their
office in whatever country who's backdoring their elds, allowing these
guys to cheat all the rules, right, and then if
they get caught, they just, you know, they go on Facebook.
There's an open trade in motor carrier registration numbers and
they just buy them online. Oh, we'll just switch it
over to this new LLC. And then they just switch
the numbers and they keep going and they know they
can get away with it, and they can get away
with it because they're not even here. They're not even
in the United States, right, These people that are orchestrating
the parasitization of a very key component to the United
States economy, which is their supply chains. Everything moves on
a truck, okay, and these guys are running it from
overseas with insourced labor, working for less money, breaking all
the rules, and they're getting away with it. And another
thing with these elds, there's been reports now of these
carriers working through brokers are moving loads for the United
States military. Right. A lot of the information about loads
is being sent back through the same technologies. There's an
interoperability with a lot of the eled stuff where the
information about the loads location, you know, you know, you
can geographically track. All this stuff is now going overseas
and possibly to foreign adversaries. Like what's to stop some
guy in Serbia who got a load of like US
military stuff or some key parts you know, working for
some like you know, computer chips or some other necessary component.
And that's you know, that's a very high profile takes
the information about all that and sells it to somebody
in China. I mean, it's in Serbia. Who are we
going to stop this? The holes in America's sort of
cybersecurity are so big that we're just driving truckloads of
information through them. I mean, you know, literally and figuratively.
So how does that?
Speaker 6: And and for you me, I don't know enough about this,
but you said that they're basically an open trade in
these registration numbers. How does that work? Because you know,
you'd assume that there must be some sort of corruption
within the system to allow that, from like the government side.
Speaker 5: The corruption within the system is the lack of enforcement.
So a motor carrier number is essentially a commodity. Let's say,
anybody with a commercial vehicle registered federally that's the minimum
weight requirement to be considered a commercial vehicle for federal
registration purposes requires a motor carrier number. You apply for it,
you get it, and then that motor carrier number develops
a history. And if you have a motor carrier number
that's got like a long history, it's been around a
long time. You do all the things right, you can
sell it. You can sell it to somebody. Now the
rules are supposed to be that, like you're supposed to
sell the whole business, and there's a bunch of other stuff,
but again there's no enforcement. So someone you can go
on Facebook and let's say you're like some boomer guy
that had a landscaping business and you had a couple
of dump trucks with some float trailers to move around,
your bobcats and your little mini excavator, when you had
a motor carrier number, and you go on Facebook You're like, oh,
I'm done now I'm sold on my equipment. I'm retiring.
Well I got this MC number. Oh shit, I can
sell this to some guy from fucking Ukraine who's gonna
give me thirty grand for it. Cool. There you go,
and they're just there's a trade in them. And then
that guy runs up a bunch of inspections, crashes his trucks, fails,
you know, does a lot of bad things like Amazon relay.
So there's this. So how Amazon moves all their loads
around is through this sort of internal kind of like
uber system for lack of a better word. It's like
a cross between a load board and an app where
they like hook up. You know, drivers can bid on
loads and lanes and stuff specifically within Amazon's own network,
and you can you can lose points on Amazon as well,
right like, if you're late, if you like piss somebody off,
and you know, there's all Amazon has all their own rules.
If you get a new MC number, you can just
go back to Amazon and keep working if Amazon even
kicks you out, right, Like, there's no clamping down on
this system where you just exchange registrations. There's black markets
and all this stuff, and the government is not doing
enough to clamp down on it whatsoever.
Speaker 6: Yeah, It's it's one of those things where again to
your point, it's like, clearly if there are this many,
this many issues and this many places where indexes with
re existing laws, they're just not being enforced. You see this.
This is a bit of a tangent, but you'll see
where I'm getting. You see this with gun laws in
the States, right where like, if someone like a normal
guy basically makes a mistake, you know, combines two things
that are individually legal, but when put together are not,
he gets a twenty five year felony right ruin his
life two hundred and fifty thousand dollars fine. Whereas there
are others, you know, like the glock switch, right, which
has become infamous recently, which is a you know, machine
gun conversion device, highly illegal. We can find those anywhere
in any major city, in any major city, just anywhere.
But even though it's illegal, even though there is you know,
on the books for existing laws, it just simply do
not get enforced for any number of reasons. And so
at a certain point you're like, okay, like we have
all these problems. You say, oh, this new law, this
new regulation, this new piece of tech that rides around
with you everywhere you go, that's going to be the
thing that fixes it. And you know, much like the
surveillance stuff we see here in the UK where it's
always this will be the thing that fixes terrorism, This
will be the thing that fixes crime. It's like, well,
you don't enforce what you've already got, Like, you don't
you already have all of these powers, all of these
things you can do, and you never use them for
what you're supposed to, always using them to ruin someone's
life who's not doing anything wrong. And so why do
I believe you, right, why do I believe you that
you just need a little more power, You need a
little bit more and then I'll solve the problem. And
like not to come across as like too much of
a you know, like twenty sixteen libertarian, because that's really
not you know where I come from. But at a
certain point it's like, look, man, like why why do
I believe you? Because you already have all of these
opportunities to fix this problem, and you simply won't. There's
just not the will to do it. So like, what's
the point of even having these laws to begin with,
right if they're only selectively enforced?
Speaker 5: Right? And this this, this, this creates a sort of
feedback loop. Right when you when you have no faith
or reason to believe that the authorities are doing what
they're supposed to do, it creates a cascading sort of
acidic dissolution of people's trust in the system, which eventually
collapses the system.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 5: And like I say, I have high hopes for Secretary
Duffy and the Trump administration, but like some of the
stuff that's like involved here is so much deeper even
than them, Right, Like Amazon is one of the biggest
companies in the world, Federal Express, all these other major
shippers that have like freight buys in the billions of
dollars a year, and they absolutely do not care. They
just don't to them. And it's an accident, happens somewhere.
Oh well, it's a tragedy. They do the stall and
thing right. And they don't want to spend money on Americans, Canadians,
you know, people that live in North America. They don't
want to pay us an appropriate wage. They absolutely don't
give a shit. And if they can save money, they will.
That's why they have this bill before Congress now House
Resolution fifty six eighty eight, which says, oh, we're gonna
tighten up the English language proficiency stuff. We're going to
tighten up on these visas. We're gonna, we're gonna they're
basically trying to you know again, handwave way, Hey, look
over here, we're gonna deal with all this stuff for
which there are already laws on the books that you
could be enforcing them, and they're not. We say we're
gonna do this, but over here, you know, if the
secret he deems it necessary and the visas are all
lined up, they will still continue to issue non domoicyl CDLs.
And these fucking cocksuckers that put this bill forward. There's
a big, hot, raging debate and trucking Twitter right now
about this bill, and there's some sort of institutional people
supporting it, and it's like, all you need to do
is amend it. Pull out that part that says the
Secretary shall continue to issue non domicild CDLs if the
visas are good, because that's the back door. Just get
rid of that. But they won't get rid of it
because they want to continue this thing where they get
their cheap freight and they have a case of indentured
servants working from overseas moving everything as cheap as freaking possible.
They don't want to pay regular, normal working class wages.
They don't want to pay for safety, they don't want
to pay for safe trucks. They just don't. They're not
interested and buy their fruits. You shall know them. I again,
as I started off with the show, here, Duffy and
the administration see the problem. They want to fix it.
There's a lot of people in Congress and a lot
of people at the state level that don't. There's status quo.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And that's the thing where it's like, if if
we're going to fix this, and I realize you know,
guys like Duffy might be in a tough spot like
I'm gonna need to see something because like as you've said,
it's like seemingly, you know, you put out a bunch
of nice fluff with a poison pill in it, and
you won't take that out no matter what. And you
start to realiz like, oh, that's what you want, that's
what you care about. All the other stuff is ancillary.
It's just something you throw in to make people swallow it.
And at a certain point it's like again, like you said,
I prove it to me because just this, like you know,
saying you're gonna address it and then doing the same thing,
It's like that doesn't really help us at all.
Speaker 5: Right, No, you know it's funny, Like if I want
to make one last point here, of course, there are
millions of Americans with CDLs. There are people in this
country who speak the language, know all the rules, who've
been through the whole grinder. Ninety percent of people who
get a CDL quit the trucking company they got it
with or the industry in general within one year. The
industry does not want to fix itself. It has not
want to fix itself for decades, and now the new
thing is abusing in source labor. This is like a
long running continuum. But there are people here, anyone that
tells you that, oh, Americans don't want to do this job. No,
they'll do it if you pay them right and you
treat them correctly, right, And they don't want to do that,
and they would rather have these fucking serfs, indentured servants
who get abused by their own homeboys, and get abused
by the likes of Amazon and FedEx and all these
other huge companies that say, oh no, no, we don't
hire foreigners. We just hire thousands of subcontractors who hire
foreigners and then abuse all these people and then abuse
Americas by taking away their good paying jobs.
Speaker 6: Well, and I mean to that point, right, like trucking
is want it's not if it's not the I think
it is one or two most common professions in America
right by numbers. And traditionally this was a way that
a young guy didn't have a lot of education, didn't
have a lot of capital, could pull himself up the
ladder right, could start making good money, could contribute to society.
And look, man, you need jobs like that like you
need entry level. And this has been the big thing
really since the pandemic, is that there are no entry
level jobs. They simply do not exist anymore. And so
the question is it's like, well, what do you want
people to do?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 6: Do you want everyone to just work for uber, right,
work for fast food? Like, yeah, sure, that's fine when
you're a teenager, but you like, if you want people
to be contributing to the economy buying more than just
you know, cheap food and a crappy apartment, like you
need to pay them right, and this, you know, like
many things, you know there's a short term benefit but
a long term cost. And as you've said, like, these
guys aren't sticking around for the long term. You know
that they're not here for the rest of their lives.
They're cashing out. And once you've you've killed that industry,
you've killed your base of people who know how to
do it. As you've said, it's like the biggest predictor
of safety's experience. And when no one has experience, when
no one is to be honest, dumb enough to sign
up and spend an entire career where they're competing against slaves,
Like what do you think is gonna happen. Right, Once
you've lost that, you have lost that. And that doesn't
even talk about the social implications of not giving people
a way to make it out, not giving people a
leg up, because people don't just go away or they
don't just stop caring like some of them do, right,
someone blow their brains out or die of a fentanyl
overdose or drink themselves to death. But like, is that
what we're telling people, like I just kill yoursel I
mean Canada, Yes, they literally are, but like, is that
what it is?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 6: Just like there's no no role for you to play
that's productive because like again, like there are few things
which are worse for social stability than a whole lot
of young men with nothing to lose and no prospects.
I'm not saying this will be some sort of seventeen
seventy six thing, but like, look at all the political
violence in America, Like how many of these are young losers, right,
kids who don't have anything going on, don't have any
prospects in life? Like where do you think that comes from?
And I'm not saying that like the kid who shot
Charlie Kirk would have been completely fine if he was
working as a trucker. I'm not saying that there are
obviously some pre existing issues there some bizarre sexual predilections
we don't have to get into.
Speaker 2: But like.
Speaker 6: You're you're deliberately destabilizing society in the long term so
that you, in the short term can get your stuff
shipped marginally cheaper. And it's a choice. We don't have
to do this, as you've said multiple times, we could
say we're not doing that anymore. You have to pay
people a decent way, right.
Speaker 5: And you know, like theme part is, you'll get these
economic lolbertarian types, sir. You know the spreadsheet brain case.
I've seen a number of different like studies on this,
the cost to the consumer of paying drivers appropriately paying
trucking companies a rate that they can maintain their equipment,
do things safely, have a decent enough wage for the
guy or gal behind the wheel at most, at most
delivered product on the shelf, transportation in total for everything
to do with that product at most three percent, and
usually it's somewhere around one to one point two one
point five. Like we're not talking we're not talking about
like some major major put on to the consumer here.
Speaker 6: And that's even ignoring like the externalities, right, like, yeah, sure,
you know the three percent you saved on Amazon might
be nice. Let alone one hundred thousand dollars medical bill
when your lower body is turned into chef boyardy, you know,
because someone drove a truck into you, or like the
insurance that we've mentioned, Like all these things add up,
and like so many things, they they they privatize the
benefit and socialize the cost right where it's like, you know,
those companies are making money, they're making their three percent,
which on a company that you know is spending a
couple billion dollars, it's a whole lot of money. Maybe
not the state of California, but you know to a
company it is, and the cost goes to you directly
in an opportunity cost. How much money you could be
making goes to me because I have to pay for
you know, increased insurance rates, you know, let alone the
direct security of it. But it's one of those things.
And look like this is one of those messages I
sort of want to get out to conservative America because
there are many cases in which your own principles, right
your your free market economics are being used against you.
Because yeah, sure, like we get it. We're not asking
for socialism, we're not asking for, you know, some sort
of unfair deal. But we're saying is you're being taken
advantage of. You just don't know how, because they've hidden
those costs. You're still paying them indirectly, you're still paying
them in other ways. You're still paying them when someone
you know or you yourself is killed. But the number
on Amazon is hypothetically, and let's be honest, we don't
even know if it is. They're just telling you it
is lower. That's not a good deal, right, And you're
not obligated to take the other end of a crappy
deal because of your abstract principles. Because to be honest, right,
as someone who lives in America, I care way more
about America being a nice place than a three percent
discount on my Amazon purchases. That's basically what's being offered
to you. And the people who are making these arguments
about oh, you know, the free market, this free market,
that it's cynical, they don't actually care. They just want
what they always want, you know, the poison pill they
smuggled in that bill you were mentioning earlier. What it
always is which is basically I want slaves. They just
add more steps to it. So anyway, Gord, I think
I have to go. My wife is cooking dinner and
my phone is blowing up. Yeah, where can people find me?
Speaker 9: So?
Speaker 5: I typically write and podcast at Autonomous Truckers dot Substack
dot com. My podcast is called Voice of Gord on
all your major podcasting platforms. I have a book coming
out in March about, in part what we just discussed
here and thirty thousand foot view of why the occupation,
the idea, the archetype of truck driver has been under
attack for decades. It's called End of the Road, Inside
the War on Truckers. It comes out in March. My
publisher is called Creed and Culture Books. I think their
website's Creedenculture dot com. You can pre order it comes
out in March, and Merry Christmas. Thank you for paying attention.
I'm also on Twitter at Gordon macguil. There's a whole
bunch of awesome people on Twitter talking about problems with trucking.
I am only just merely one of them. And be
careful in the road. I want you and your family
to be safe as possible. And I hate saying this,
The trucking industry writ large, with some exceptions, has decided
that your safety doesn't matter anymore. While they keep talking
about safety, they're all full of shit and just please
be careful on the roads.
Speaker 6: That's well said. I'll be sure to include those links
as far as my stuff, Jay Burden Show, Apple, Spotify, YouTube,
anywhere you want us to podcasts. Oh, I'm newly on Rumble.
I don't know if anyone uses Rumble, but if you're interested,
you can find me there. This is what I do.
If you want to support me, five bucks a month
I think gets you all my content early in ed free.
It comes out to like fifteen cents an hour for content.
It's really not bad, so through a few dollars my way.
If you can check out our sponsor, Axios Remote Fitness
and Coaching. Again, Gord, it's not a fun talking you man.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, man, thanks for having me. Thank you so much.
Speaker 6: Everyone at home, keep your head up. Well, I can't
last forever. Good night, no.
Speaker 10: One, but what's Gary? Gary,