WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:03.000 So we go a little bit farther. He comes back 2 00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:06.839 over to me and he says, somebody's over there and 3 00:00:06.879 --> 00:00:10.720 they're talking. Then I stop and I started looking around again. 4 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:12.679 I look at him. I said, well, there's no way 5 00:00:12.720 --> 00:00:15.839 there's people up here, and he goes, yeah, I know, 6 00:00:16.760 --> 00:00:20.839 and then he goes and there's somebody over there too, 7 00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:23.160 and you can hear it in the distance. It's like 8 00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:25.440 you know when you can hear somebody talking but you 9 00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:27.719 can't hear what they're saying. And I can't make out 10 00:00:27.719 --> 00:00:31.160 any words, but it's like, yeah, that's definitely talking. So 11 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:34.159 I'm starting to get creeped out because it's on both 12 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:37.359 sides of us. We can't see it. Whatever it is, 13 00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:42.359 it's talking, and we're both thinking what we're thinking. 14 00:00:42.920 --> 00:01:18.400 You know, this is Bigfoot Crossroads. My name is Matt 15 00:01:18.920 --> 00:01:21.920 and i'd like to welcome James to the show. James, 16 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:25.599 thanks again for joining me. Man, we've kind of already 17 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:29.599 gotten started, so I guess just go on and tell 18 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:32.000 me the story that you were about to tell. 19 00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:34.159 I guess a good place to start. That's kind of 20 00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:37.400 where we were headed. Was I live in a little 21 00:01:37.439 --> 00:01:42.799 town house kind of on the edge of the city, 22 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:47.760 on the north side of a river, the Scadget River, 23 00:01:48.319 --> 00:01:51.519 and I'm surrounded by trees, woods. 24 00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:52.359 It's just. 25 00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:58.400 The whole area here is just like immense wilderness with 26 00:01:58.439 --> 00:02:01.159 a little town thrown in the middle of it. And 27 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:05.920 so I guess the story that we were heading at was. 28 00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:08.919 I come out. I come out of my house one night, 29 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:12.240 and I'd been smoking fish. I do a lot of 30 00:02:12.280 --> 00:02:17.199 fishing in the fall. Caught a bunch of co host 31 00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:21.400 silver salmon in the river. And my smoker had been 32 00:02:21.479 --> 00:02:25.080 running twenty four hours a day, seven days a week 33 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:27.719 for I don't know, maybe a couple of weeks at 34 00:02:27.719 --> 00:02:31.400 that point. And so I come out my back door, 35 00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:38.000 down the stairs, out into the garage and I'm doing chips, 36 00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:41.199 soaking chips for the smoker. I get the chips out, 37 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:45.240 drain them, start swapping. I hear all this noise outside. 38 00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:49.280 And I had this crazy neighbor across the street, and 39 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:50.919 he'd get up in the middle of the night, two 40 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:52.759 o'clock in the morning and chop a wood on his 41 00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:57.360 front porch, throw the garage door open, and sitting there 42 00:02:57.520 --> 00:03:01.719 and mess with his car of his engine. You know, 43 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:04.800 just all kinds of noise, all kinds of crazy stuff 44 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:09.960 all the time. Uh and uh, so I just figured, well, 45 00:03:10.039 --> 00:03:13.960 it's my neighbor across the street, you know. And so 46 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:15.919 this noise goes on for a while and I thought, 47 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:17.919 I got to go out and see what's going on. 48 00:03:18.439 --> 00:03:23.560 And I walk out and uh, look down the look 49 00:03:23.639 --> 00:03:28.000 down the street at his house and there's no lights on, garage, 50 00:03:28.039 --> 00:03:32.280 doors closed, everything, It's just dead quiet down the street. 51 00:03:33.240 --> 00:03:37.759 And I thought, Wow, that's weird, wor where's all that 52 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:41.840 noise coming from? And then I realized, because we're up 53 00:03:41.879 --> 00:03:44.680 against the side of this hill, the noise is echoing 54 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:46.599 off the side of the hill and making it sound 55 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:48.599 like it's coming from his house, but it's out in 56 00:03:48.639 --> 00:03:55.199 the woods. And I'm like, I was like, that's just crazy. 57 00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:57.639 I mean, it was like, yeah, I thought he was 58 00:03:57.680 --> 00:03:59.680 on his porch. Chop in wood is what I thought. 59 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:02.479 And I thought, oh, I'm going to run inside the house, 60 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:07.000 grab the flashlight. And I've got this big shape like 61 00:04:07.080 --> 00:04:10.560 the old mag flashlights, you know, big long flash it's 62 00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:15.520 led and it's super super bright. And so I grabbed 63 00:04:15.520 --> 00:04:19.639 the flashlight, go out and I shine. I start shining 64 00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:21.319 it around in the woods trying to figure out where 65 00:04:21.319 --> 00:04:24.319 this noise is coming from and I see this, this 66 00:04:24.439 --> 00:04:28.839 pair of eyes looking at me, and it kind of 67 00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:33.040 they're staring straight at me, and then they kind of 68 00:04:33.399 --> 00:04:39.079 dip down and turn to look away. And I thought, well, 69 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:43.759 that's kind of weird, because you know, I see elk, bears, 70 00:04:43.839 --> 00:04:45.439 all kinds of stuff out in the woods out there 71 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:49.639 all the time. Uh, and these eyes were they were 72 00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:54.040 totally different. And it was two eyes that were looking 73 00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:58.199 at me with the light reflecting on them, and as 74 00:04:58.360 --> 00:05:01.360 the head dip down and turn and it was like 75 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:05.120 both eyes kind of disappeared at the same time. Where 76 00:05:05.240 --> 00:05:09.199 when you're looking at an elk or a deer or 77 00:05:09.319 --> 00:05:11.639 something to that effect, you know you're going to lose 78 00:05:11.959 --> 00:05:15.439 visual within the reflection out of one eye, and then 79 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:17.680 you're going to lose the reflection out of the other eye, 80 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:20.680 right because they got you know, the big head the 81 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:23.800 eyes around this. So I thought, well, this is like 82 00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:26.879 some kind of predator. I turned, I turned the light off, 83 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:30.759 the flashlight up, and I wait a second, and I 84 00:05:30.839 --> 00:05:33.839 turn it back on and I and I look and 85 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:37.519 it's staring right straight at me again. And I thought, 86 00:05:37.560 --> 00:05:39.319 and it did the same thing, kind of dropped his 87 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:43.000 head down and turned and I thought, ow. I stepped 88 00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:45.439 back a little bit and I look at the house. 89 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:48.160 The bedroom window upstairs is open, and my son's upstairs, 90 00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:51.319 and I hollered him. I said, hey, hey, come out here, 91 00:05:51.399 --> 00:05:54.160 you know, and it's the middle of the night on 92 00:05:54.199 --> 00:05:58.959 a weekend. I'm hollering. He thinks something's wrong, you know, 93 00:05:59.079 --> 00:06:01.199 or something comes round I did while something kind of was. 94 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:06.079 He comes running down and he goes, what's going on? 95 00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:09.439 What's going on? I said, hey, look out here, and 96 00:06:09.519 --> 00:06:11.800 I kind of gave him the layout, you know, because 97 00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:13.439 he could kind of see some of the trees out 98 00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:15.720 in the woods. I said, look between these two trees, 99 00:06:16.279 --> 00:06:18.800 only look way off at the base of that big 100 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:22.199 cedar tree out there. I'm going to turn the flashlight on. 101 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:24.920 Tell me what you see. And I turned the flashlight 102 00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:29.399 on and you could see he did it again, pretty 103 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:32.000 much exactly the same thing. Is looking right at us 104 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:37.240 and drops his head, turns his eyes away, and I 105 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:40.319 turned the flashlight off and I said, what did you 106 00:06:40.360 --> 00:06:42.199 see it? And he says, well, I see the eyes 107 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:47.800 staring at me. And I was like yeah, and he goes, yeah, 108 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:53.439 they're awfully, awfully tall. And we staid there for a second, 109 00:06:53.480 --> 00:06:55.319 I turned the lights back on again. He's seen it, 110 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:00.560 and then kind of went through the whole thing again. 111 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:02.439 Then my wife comes out the back door and she 112 00:07:03.079 --> 00:07:05.240 kind of you know, what are you guys doing? What 113 00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:07.759 are you guys doing? And I told her about it, 114 00:07:07.800 --> 00:07:10.519 and Nate's all excited, you know, my son, he's all 115 00:07:10.519 --> 00:07:14.839 excited stuff. And and she goes, well, are you going 116 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:16.680 to go out there and see what it is? And 117 00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:24.439 I said, no, wait until morning. Because it's like when 118 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:28.800 animals when you when you look at their eyes and 119 00:07:28.839 --> 00:07:31.279 you get the light reflecting off of them, they're usually 120 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:36.240 a blue green And I mean, it's it's I've got 121 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:39.839 to I've hunted my whole life and living up here 122 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:45.279 and and stuff. I've hunted pretty much every animal on 123 00:07:45.279 --> 00:07:48.439 on the continent that people hunt, you know, except for moose. 124 00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:52.639 I've never gone up to Cannon and hunted moose. But 125 00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:57.680 seeing the eyes, they always give off this green blue 126 00:07:57.759 --> 00:08:03.079 tint to them, you know, and these it they were 127 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:07.959 totally different. Looking at the eyes that were reflecting back 128 00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:13.000 at that at first they had they had this real 129 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:16.000 funny reflection to them that I'm going to equate to 130 00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:21.519 a brown red color. It's kind of an orange brown 131 00:08:21.639 --> 00:08:26.000 red color. Not not the color of any eyes that 132 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:30.160 I've ever seen on anything, right, you know, you know, 133 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:36.039 right outside my back door. But we've had we've had 134 00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:38.360 other Well, I went out the next day. I'll keep 135 00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:40.639 going with that story before I changed focus. We go 136 00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:44.759 out the next day and we're we walk out there 137 00:08:44.840 --> 00:08:48.039 and look around and can't find any olk prints. I 138 00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:51.960 can't find any deer prints, nothing. Can't find any footprints 139 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:54.679 or anything. The only thing that we could find was 140 00:08:54.679 --> 00:08:56.799 a log that was kind of nearby, and it had 141 00:08:56.840 --> 00:08:59.639 some moss knocked off of it, like something had stepped 142 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:03.200 over the top or stepped on it or something. But 143 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:05.960 I reached up to the branch that the eyes were 144 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:09.200 looking over the top of and didn't quite have to 145 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:15.000 fully extend my arm, but reached up and put my 146 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:19.799 hand on that branch. And I mean, I'm not a 147 00:09:19.799 --> 00:09:24.279 big tall guy. I'm five foot nine and so reaching up, 148 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:28.519 I'm gonna say it was looking over a branch that 149 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:31.679 was six and a half seven feet high. 150 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:33.080 I mean that's pretty up there. 151 00:09:34.159 --> 00:09:37.120 Yeah, you know, we've had things moving through the woods 152 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:41.279 behind the house where I've never seen them before. But 153 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:45.120 the dogs freak out and the dogs all around. It's 154 00:09:45.159 --> 00:09:48.320 like when there's something around, they do the you know, 155 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:51.039 the bark, like you know, there's a bear, you know 156 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:54.639 whatever out in the woods and they'll bark at it 157 00:09:54.679 --> 00:09:59.360 and stuff. Well, from the end of the valley where 158 00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:04.120 we're at kind of where we live at, there's dogs 159 00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:06.000 all around up across the top of the hill and 160 00:10:06.039 --> 00:10:09.960 stuff at different houses. And one night the dog started barking. 161 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:12.879 They were doing this whimpery bark like they were scared. 162 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:16.879 It was a totally different bark, and it kind of 163 00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:20.240 it kind of traveled along. It's like these dogs over 164 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:24.399 here start barking, and then these dogs are over here, 165 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:27.840 and then it kind of traveled along and that that 166 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:31.039 happens a few times here and there, which is kind 167 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:34.519 of kind of odd, you know, at the house. 168 00:10:34.799 --> 00:10:38.960 That's pretty funny. That's actually one of the first conversations 169 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:45.440 I remember having with the Browns, which you interviewed with 170 00:10:45.559 --> 00:10:49.840 you know them, we're mutual friends, was we were talking 171 00:10:49.879 --> 00:10:55.679 about mapping their movements around their property based on the 172 00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:58.919 dogs barking, because like you're talking about, as they'll travel 173 00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:01.720 through the area, you know, the first set of dogs 174 00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:03.759 that they run across will start barking, then the next 175 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:05.480 and so on and so forth, and you can kind 176 00:11:05.480 --> 00:11:09.399 of tell at least the direction that they're moving by 177 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:13.159 the reaction of the dogs. Right, Yeah, Have you noticed 178 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:18.440 anything like missing around your property? Do they take anything 179 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:21.279 or go through trash cans or anything like that? 180 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:25.639 No, I don't think so. They might have been, you know, 181 00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:30.000 we really don't have a problem with trash cans or 182 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:32.759 anything with any of the animals, even the bears. There's 183 00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:35.159 only been one year that we really had problems with 184 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:39.200 the trash cans with the bears, even But it's not 185 00:11:39.320 --> 00:11:41.840 just it's not just around the house. I mean, that's 186 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:44.279 just kind of that's the story that was the closest 187 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:50.919 to my house, right you know. But yeah, I mean 188 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:53.559 people around here they don't really talk about it, but 189 00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:56.919 there's several people we've got. We've got a guy in 190 00:11:57.000 --> 00:12:00.639 town that used to be kind of a big foot 191 00:12:00.759 --> 00:12:05.039 chaser kind of guy, and I think he still takes 192 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:07.519 reports once in a while. I told him that story 193 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:10.000 years ago. I told him that story when it happened. 194 00:12:10.360 --> 00:12:13.840 Probably that was probably, oh, I don't know, that one 195 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:17.639 wasn't that long ago. I guess it was probably five, 196 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:19.080 maybe six years ago. 197 00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:23.279 So when did this whole bigfoot thing really start for you? 198 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:26.519 I guess as a kid running around in the woods 199 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:31.600 and stuff I spent. I grew up more down towards 200 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:35.240 more down towards the city, and moved around quite a 201 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:39.440 bit as a kid, so i'd come, i'd stay with 202 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:43.120 my grandparents and stuff off and on. Most of the 203 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:46.840 summers are spent with my grandparents, and so I'd spent 204 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:48.759 a lot of time out in the woods. And then 205 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:54.679 I grew up kind of near Vancouver, Washington. We lived 206 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:57.120 down there for a while, and so I had some 207 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:00.519 I don't know, some odd things as a kid happening 208 00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:03.519 in the woods, but you know, I didn't really relate 209 00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:06.480 it to anything, and I guess I don't have any 210 00:13:06.519 --> 00:13:10.639 real big stories about that. I think the first, the 211 00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:14.039 first real incident that I can say, oh, gee, this 212 00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:19.519 is like a bigfoot thing was I was in an 213 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:24.000 area up above Index, which is off of Highway to 214 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:28.320 in Washington, little town called Index, and you go up 215 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:31.240 into the mountains to the north of the town and 216 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:34.639 there's an area they call it Jack's Pass, and it's 217 00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:38.120 a dirt road and you cut off on one of 218 00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:41.159 the spur roads and you go up that road and 219 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:44.519 there's this really neat waterfall. I think they call it 220 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:49.519 Deer Falls or Deer Creek Falls or something. I can't 221 00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:52.039 remember the name of it. This would have been back 222 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:57.320 early nineties, and went out black powder hunting most of 223 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:00.879 these most things happen, seems to be when I'm out hunting, 224 00:14:01.519 --> 00:14:04.240 and with a couple of buddies of mine. This was 225 00:14:04.279 --> 00:14:08.720 probably early nineties. So we drove in hike down to 226 00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:12.200 this spot, went hunting for the day, out and about 227 00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:16.799 and all of that, and came back, set up a 228 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.039 little camp more like a cowboy camp, no tents or anything, 229 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:25.519 you know, just kinda set up and spent the night 230 00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:28.679 by this waterfall. In the morning, when it started getting 231 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:34.000 light out, the sun's hitting the hillside, these rocks start 232 00:14:34.039 --> 00:14:38.159 falling off the hillside, and you know, we just kind 233 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:40.600 of attributed it to you know, like you get the 234 00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:44.320 frost and heating up and the expansion of the rocks 235 00:14:44.360 --> 00:14:47.399 and all of that, rocks are falling off the hillside, 236 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:49.320 so we kind of didn't kind of blew it off. 237 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:57.399 And so we're sitting there making coffee, cooking breakfast, you know, 238 00:14:57.639 --> 00:15:00.519 kind of banner around with each other, you know, the 239 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:05.639 typical guy stuff in the morning, and these rocks keep 240 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:07.720 coming down the hillside, and then all of a sudden, 241 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:11.039 one splashes in the middle of the pool, at the 242 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:14.799 bottom of the bottom of the waterfall, and it's like 243 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:18.600 we all kind of look at each other, and then 244 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:21.679 we sit there and then we're quiet. We're sitting there 245 00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:25.200 watching and right out of the woodline comes one it's 246 00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:29.600 probably the size of a large grapefruit, comes flying out 247 00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:35.919 of the woodline, clears everything, and splashes into the water again. 248 00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:40.000 And then we're all like and kind of freaking out. 249 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:45.559 One of my buddies was like, oh, it's bigfoot, you know, yeah, 250 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:47.840 you know. And so, I mean, we all kind of 251 00:15:47.879 --> 00:15:50.720 came to that consensus. We didn't see anything. There weren't 252 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:56.879 any roars, there was no crazy banging bushes, breaking trees, 253 00:15:57.080 --> 00:16:02.960 no nothing. Probably I think maybe three four more rocks 254 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:07.240 came out, and then we just decided, well, we're probably 255 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:11.240 not going to go hunting today, you know, I mean, 256 00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:15.320 because realistically, I mean, we all had handguns with us 257 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:18.480 and stuff too, but I mean our hunting equipment were 258 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:22.399 black powdered rifles, and yeah, I don't yeah, I wasn't 259 00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:24.039 going to go out the woods running around with black 260 00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:27.440 pottered rifles with something that was throwing rocks that big 261 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:28.039 off the hill. 262 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:32.399 I mean, whenever you're faced with that situation, Yeah, I 263 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:36.679 think the most logical conclusion to reach is it's time 264 00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:39.960 to retreat. Yeah, that ain't people. And if it is, 265 00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:43.639 for some reason, people, they're clearly you know, they're throwing 266 00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:46.960 rocks at a group of armed men. Yeah, then you 267 00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:48.960 probably don't want to tangle with them anyway. 268 00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:52.240 Yeah, I'm probably not, you know, I mean by that point, 269 00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:57.679 I mean I'd spent I served in the army for 270 00:16:58.039 --> 00:17:00.440 thirty years, and at that point, I been in the 271 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:08.200 army for ten, probably twelve years, and I'd come back home, 272 00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:12.319 you know, whenever i'd have leave or i'd you know, 273 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:15.640 have some kind of break or something, and I'd come 274 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:20.519 home go hunting. And then since since I retired, I've 275 00:17:20.519 --> 00:17:23.599 had a lot of my buddies coming up here, and 276 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:28.920 you know, they they come up and we go hunting 277 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:31.720 or go fishing, or go do something, you know, because 278 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:36.880 they like the quiet, the being away from the city, 279 00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:41.759 the all the stuff. Some downtime, you know, some real 280 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:46.359 relaxing downtime and We've got some pretty nice lakes up here, 281 00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:48.480 and so I've got a couple of jet skis. We 282 00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:50.920 go up jet ski and play on the boats, go fishing, 283 00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:55.160 camp out, do you know, depending on whatever time of 284 00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:57.039 year it is, you know. So it's kind of like 285 00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:03.400 it's kind of like a chill spot vacation place to 286 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:06.160 online for some of my buddies. 287 00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:10.359 You know, until grapefruit sized rocks start getting thrown at you. 288 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:17.839 Yeah, yeah, that was. That was That's got to be. 289 00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:23.200 That's got to be about sixty miles maybe give or 290 00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:27.200 take south of where I'm at here, you know, so 291 00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:30.400 it's a lot different part of the state. Well, it's 292 00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:33.640 not different, it's just farther south. The mountains are a 293 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:36.720 little more rugged up here where I'm at. So to 294 00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:39.240 give to throw it into context to where I'm at, 295 00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:45.519 it's I'm I'm in a little town along Highway twenty 296 00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:54.359 North Cascades in Washington, and from Highway twenty it's you 297 00:18:54.440 --> 00:19:02.559 go all the way up through thousands. Probably it's gonna 298 00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:07.319 be it's gonna be sixty miles I think up to 299 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:12.200 the next major highway going north and then any road 300 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:13.839 that you're going to cross if you come out of 301 00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:16.160 my town and you go straight north, the only roads 302 00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:18.839 that you're going to cross after you cross Highway are 303 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:22.799 gonna be dirt logging roads. Until you're well into Canada, 304 00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:28.240 there's there's nothing that you're going to cross. And going 305 00:19:28.279 --> 00:19:34.480 to the west of US, the little cities get progressively 306 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:39.279 progressively larger. They're not huge, no major cities up here, 307 00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:42.720 kind of where I'm at Bellingham up to the north 308 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:50.960 north of US, but going going to the east side, it's, uh, 309 00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:57.000 you're going to be one hundred miles before you get 310 00:19:57.039 --> 00:19:59.960 to another town that's at least as big as mine, 311 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:06.519 and that'd be Winthrop. To the east, and on the 312 00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:11.640 south side of US, there's just it's just wilderness. I 313 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:14.680 mean we're up in the Cascade Mountain Range and it's uh, 314 00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:21.079 it's just there's literally millions of acres of land that 315 00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:28.079 have no houses, no development, no nothing. It's just straight 316 00:20:28.359 --> 00:20:32.839 up wilderness land. If you look on a map, Google 317 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:38.279 Earth or something, it's just wide open for just just miles, 318 00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:40.759 I mean literally millions of acres of land. 319 00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:44.160 That kind of expanse is just crazy for me to 320 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:46.279 think about even now. I mean, I know it's there, 321 00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:50.200 you know, we all know it's there, but we get 322 00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:53.160 so caught up. I see people on the internet, especially, 323 00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:56.799 you know, talking about you know, the population is much 324 00:20:56.839 --> 00:21:00.599 too large. There's no way these things could remain hidden. 325 00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:05.119 But I don't think people really understand how just wild 326 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:09.480 and remote a lot of the United States still is. Yeah, 327 00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:12.119 I mean most people live in the cities, you know, 328 00:21:12.279 --> 00:21:14.559 and the towns and everything, but in between all those 329 00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:15.960 places is just wilderness. 330 00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:16.680 Yeah. 331 00:21:16.759 --> 00:21:23.680 I'm in northeastern Oklahoma, and if I drive for an 332 00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:28.519 hour and a half or so west, I hit Oklahoma City, 333 00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:31.279 you know, the largest city in the state. If I 334 00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:33.920 go south for four hours, I'm in the middle of 335 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:39.000 downtown Dallas, you know. But out there you're just in 336 00:21:39.079 --> 00:21:41.640 the forest in the mountains. There's nothing out there. 337 00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:44.359 I mean you really have to just like get on 338 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:46.920 a map or Google Earth does it the best because 339 00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:48.680 you can kind of zoom in and look at the 340 00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:52.039 highways and stuff and see what's along them. And then 341 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:57.480 as you zoom out, you start realizing the massive expanse 342 00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:02.880 that there is with nothing here, I mean nothing, It's 343 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:08.079 just immense. And the people talk about the Rocky Mountains 344 00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:10.599 and and all of that, Well, the Rocky Mountains are cool, 345 00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:14.519 but they're they're high, and they're gradually high above sea level, 346 00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:19.160 and they're not nearly as rugged as the mountains up here. 347 00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:22.480 The North Cascades are like the they're like the Alps. 348 00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:30.599 They're they're rugged, uh sharp steep peaks, and it's uh, 349 00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:36.559 it's it's a whole different mountain range. It's hard to 350 00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:39.640 get into the woods. You know, you're going to follow 351 00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:41.799 a You're gonna have to follow a creek or a 352 00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:44.880 river or something to travel off into the woods. And 353 00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:49.680 there's there's there's some trails in here, and you know, 354 00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:54.839 the Pacific Crestrail runs through from Canada down, but that's 355 00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:57.559 that's ways to the east of US. But I mean, 356 00:22:57.599 --> 00:22:59.880 you're going to get on that from a highway and 357 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:04.519 then you're gonna go you're going to go from basically 358 00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:07.759 up here Highway twenty. You're going to go south. If 359 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:09.680 you're going south, you're going to go to highway too. 360 00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:14.759 So you're going to go sixty miles overland with nothing 361 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:20.000 in between. And then from there you're going to go 362 00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:24.279 overland again down to A ninety, which is going to 363 00:23:24.279 --> 00:23:28.680 be another forty to fifty miles with nothing. I mean, 364 00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:32.359 it's just the wilderness is just vast, and it's thick, 365 00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:35.920 and it's full of it's full of stuff. These these 366 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:41.559 high valleys are loaded with blueberries up here, just loaded 367 00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:46.599 with them in the summer, in the fall, and the 368 00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:49.880 fish in the river. I mean, I took I took 369 00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:53.000 my wife one year. She's never been much of a fisherman. 370 00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:55.240 She's like, well, she finally wanted to go fish the 371 00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:57.799 river with me, you know, and stuff. And so I 372 00:23:57.799 --> 00:23:59.839 took her to the spot one year and we stood 373 00:23:59.920 --> 00:24:03.680 up up on this high bank and I and I 374 00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:05.559 pointed down to the river to her. I said, hey, 375 00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:07.960 I said, what do you see down there? And she 376 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:11.960 goes the bottom of the river. I said, yeah, I said, well, 377 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:13.440 what are you see? And she goes a bunch of 378 00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:18.000 rocks and I go, you need to look a little closer, 379 00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:20.160 look at those rocks. And she's looking down there and 380 00:24:20.200 --> 00:24:23.799 she goes, oh my god, I can't see the bottom 381 00:24:23.799 --> 00:24:27.519 of the river. She says, things that I thought were 382 00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:29.680 rocks were salmon. 383 00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:31.119 Wow. 384 00:24:31.880 --> 00:24:36.039 You know. So there's plenty for them to eat. The berries, 385 00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:41.960 the blackberries, the salmon berries, the huckleberries, the blueberries. The 386 00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:45.200 I mean, there's just tons of stuff and then there's 387 00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:49.359 different types of ferns and things and stuff. So I mean, 388 00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:52.880 if you're sticking to a vegetarian diet, you're and you're 389 00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:55.880 actually good at foraging, you're not going to starve to death. 390 00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:00.960 Then then you start getting into the into the other game, 391 00:25:01.079 --> 00:25:04.000 the deer, the rabbits, the grouse, the all of that. 392 00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:07.759 I mean, yeah, it's pretty pretty extensive. 393 00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:10.839 Is this a place that you had been to before 394 00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:11.960 previously for hunting? 395 00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:15.119 Yeah, yeah, that was a spot that we'd go to. 396 00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:17.319 I mean I took my wife there and showed her 397 00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:19.960 this beautiful waterfall. You know, this was years later. I 398 00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:22.079 took her there and showed her the waterfall and stuff. 399 00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:28.279 And I've never had any other experiences around there, particularly 400 00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:31.039 at that spot. But I mean we've had some. We've 401 00:25:31.079 --> 00:25:33.519