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Speaker 1: So we go a little bit farther. He comes back

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over to me and he says, somebody's over there and

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they're talking. Then I stop and I started looking around again.

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I look at him. I said, well, there's no way

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there's people up here, and he goes, yeah, I know,

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and then he goes and there's somebody over there too,

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and you can hear it in the distance. It's like

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you know when you can hear somebody talking but you

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can't hear what they're saying. And I can't make out

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any words, but it's like, yeah, that's definitely talking. So

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I'm starting to get creeped out because it's on both

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sides of us. We can't see it. Whatever it is,

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it's talking, and we're both thinking what we're thinking.

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Speaker 2: You know, this is Bigfoot Crossroads. My name is Matt

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and i'd like to welcome James to the show. James,

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thanks again for joining me. Man, we've kind of already

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gotten started, so I guess just go on and tell

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me the story that you were about to tell.

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Speaker 1: I guess a good place to start. That's kind of

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where we were headed. Was I live in a little

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town house kind of on the edge of the city,

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on the north side of a river, the Scadget River,

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and I'm surrounded by trees, woods.

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Speaker 2: It's just.

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Speaker 1: The whole area here is just like immense wilderness with

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a little town thrown in the middle of it. And

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so I guess the story that we were heading at was.

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I come out. I come out of my house one night,

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and I'd been smoking fish. I do a lot of

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fishing in the fall. Caught a bunch of co host

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silver salmon in the river. And my smoker had been

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running twenty four hours a day, seven days a week

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for I don't know, maybe a couple of weeks at

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that point. And so I come out my back door,

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down the stairs, out into the garage and I'm doing chips,

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soaking chips for the smoker. I get the chips out,

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drain them, start swapping. I hear all this noise outside.

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And I had this crazy neighbor across the street, and

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he'd get up in the middle of the night, two

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o'clock in the morning and chop a wood on his

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front porch, throw the garage door open, and sitting there

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and mess with his car of his engine. You know,

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just all kinds of noise, all kinds of crazy stuff

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all the time. Uh and uh, so I just figured, well,

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it's my neighbor across the street, you know. And so

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this noise goes on for a while and I thought,

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I got to go out and see what's going on.

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And I walk out and uh, look down the look

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down the street at his house and there's no lights on, garage,

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doors closed, everything, It's just dead quiet down the street.

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And I thought, Wow, that's weird, wor where's all that

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noise coming from? And then I realized, because we're up

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against the side of this hill, the noise is echoing

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off the side of the hill and making it sound

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like it's coming from his house, but it's out in

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the woods. And I'm like, I was like, that's just crazy.

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I mean, it was like, yeah, I thought he was

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on his porch. Chop in wood is what I thought.

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And I thought, oh, I'm going to run inside the house,

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grab the flashlight. And I've got this big shape like

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the old mag flashlights, you know, big long flash it's

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led and it's super super bright. And so I grabbed

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the flashlight, go out and I shine. I start shining

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it around in the woods trying to figure out where

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this noise is coming from and I see this, this

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pair of eyes looking at me, and it kind of

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they're staring straight at me, and then they kind of

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dip down and turn to look away. And I thought, well,

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that's kind of weird, because you know, I see elk, bears,

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all kinds of stuff out in the woods out there

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all the time. Uh, and these eyes were they were

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totally different. And it was two eyes that were looking

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at me with the light reflecting on them, and as

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the head dip down and turn and it was like

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both eyes kind of disappeared at the same time. Where

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when you're looking at an elk or a deer or

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something to that effect, you know you're going to lose

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visual within the reflection out of one eye, and then

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you're going to lose the reflection out of the other eye,

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right because they got you know, the big head the

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eyes around this. So I thought, well, this is like

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some kind of predator. I turned, I turned the light off,

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the flashlight up, and I wait a second, and I

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turn it back on and I and I look and

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it's staring right straight at me again. And I thought,

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and it did the same thing, kind of dropped his

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head down and turned and I thought, ow. I stepped

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back a little bit and I look at the house.

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The bedroom window upstairs is open, and my son's upstairs,

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and I hollered him. I said, hey, hey, come out here,

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you know, and it's the middle of the night on

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a weekend. I'm hollering. He thinks something's wrong, you know,

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or something comes round I did while something kind of was.

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He comes running down and he goes, what's going on?

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What's going on? I said, hey, look out here, and

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I kind of gave him the layout, you know, because

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he could kind of see some of the trees out

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in the woods. I said, look between these two trees,

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only look way off at the base of that big

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cedar tree out there. I'm going to turn the flashlight on.

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Tell me what you see. And I turned the flashlight

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on and you could see he did it again, pretty

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much exactly the same thing. Is looking right at us

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and drops his head, turns his eyes away, and I

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turned the flashlight off and I said, what did you

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see it? And he says, well, I see the eyes

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staring at me. And I was like yeah, and he goes, yeah,

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they're awfully, awfully tall. And we staid there for a second,

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I turned the lights back on again. He's seen it,

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and then kind of went through the whole thing again.

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Then my wife comes out the back door and she

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kind of you know, what are you guys doing? What

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are you guys doing? And I told her about it,

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and Nate's all excited, you know, my son, he's all

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excited stuff. And and she goes, well, are you going

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to go out there and see what it is? And

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I said, no, wait until morning. Because it's like when

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animals when you when you look at their eyes and

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you get the light reflecting off of them, they're usually

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a blue green And I mean, it's it's I've got

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to I've hunted my whole life and living up here

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and and stuff. I've hunted pretty much every animal on

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on the continent that people hunt, you know, except for moose.

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I've never gone up to Cannon and hunted moose. But

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seeing the eyes, they always give off this green blue

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tint to them, you know, and these it they were

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totally different. Looking at the eyes that were reflecting back

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at that at first they had they had this real

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funny reflection to them that I'm going to equate to

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a brown red color. It's kind of an orange brown

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red color. Not not the color of any eyes that

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I've ever seen on anything, right, you know, you know,

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right outside my back door. But we've had we've had

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other Well, I went out the next day. I'll keep

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going with that story before I changed focus. We go

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out the next day and we're we walk out there

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and look around and can't find any olk prints. I

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can't find any deer prints, nothing. Can't find any footprints

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or anything. The only thing that we could find was

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a log that was kind of nearby, and it had

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some moss knocked off of it, like something had stepped

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over the top or stepped on it or something. But

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I reached up to the branch that the eyes were

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looking over the top of and didn't quite have to

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fully extend my arm, but reached up and put my

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hand on that branch. And I mean, I'm not a

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big tall guy. I'm five foot nine and so reaching up,

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I'm gonna say it was looking over a branch that

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was six and a half seven feet high.

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Speaker 2: I mean that's pretty up there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we've had things moving through the woods

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behind the house where I've never seen them before. But

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the dogs freak out and the dogs all around. It's

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like when there's something around, they do the you know,

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the bark, like you know, there's a bear, you know

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whatever out in the woods and they'll bark at it

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and stuff. Well, from the end of the valley where

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we're at kind of where we live at, there's dogs

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all around up across the top of the hill and

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stuff at different houses. And one night the dog started barking.

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They were doing this whimpery bark like they were scared.

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It was a totally different bark, and it kind of

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it kind of traveled along. It's like these dogs over

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here start barking, and then these dogs are over here,

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and then it kind of traveled along and that that

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happens a few times here and there, which is kind

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of kind of odd, you know, at the house.

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Speaker 2: That's pretty funny. That's actually one of the first conversations

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I remember having with the Browns, which you interviewed with

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you know them, we're mutual friends, was we were talking

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about mapping their movements around their property based on the

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dogs barking, because like you're talking about, as they'll travel

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through the area, you know, the first set of dogs

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that they run across will start barking, then the next

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and so on and so forth, and you can kind

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of tell at least the direction that they're moving by

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the reaction of the dogs. Right, Yeah, Have you noticed

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anything like missing around your property? Do they take anything

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or go through trash cans or anything like that?

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Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. They might have been, you know,

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we really don't have a problem with trash cans or

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anything with any of the animals, even the bears. There's

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only been one year that we really had problems with

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the trash cans with the bears, even But it's not

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just it's not just around the house. I mean, that's

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just kind of that's the story that was the closest

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to my house, right you know. But yeah, I mean

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people around here they don't really talk about it, but

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there's several people we've got. We've got a guy in

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town that used to be kind of a big foot

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chaser kind of guy, and I think he still takes

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reports once in a while. I told him that story

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years ago. I told him that story when it happened.

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Probably that was probably, oh, I don't know, that one

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wasn't that long ago. I guess it was probably five,

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maybe six years ago.

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Speaker 2: So when did this whole bigfoot thing really start for you?

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Speaker 1: I guess as a kid running around in the woods

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and stuff I spent. I grew up more down towards

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more down towards the city, and moved around quite a

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bit as a kid, so i'd come, i'd stay with

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my grandparents and stuff off and on. Most of the

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summers are spent with my grandparents, and so I'd spent

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a lot of time out in the woods. And then

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I grew up kind of near Vancouver, Washington. We lived

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down there for a while, and so I had some

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I don't know, some odd things as a kid happening

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in the woods, but you know, I didn't really relate

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it to anything, and I guess I don't have any

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real big stories about that. I think the first, the

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first real incident that I can say, oh, gee, this

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is like a bigfoot thing was I was in an

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area up above Index, which is off of Highway to

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in Washington, little town called Index, and you go up

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into the mountains to the north of the town and

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there's an area they call it Jack's Pass, and it's

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a dirt road and you cut off on one of

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the spur roads and you go up that road and

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there's this really neat waterfall. I think they call it

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Deer Falls or Deer Creek Falls or something. I can't

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remember the name of it. This would have been back

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early nineties, and went out black powder hunting most of

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these most things happen, seems to be when I'm out hunting,

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and with a couple of buddies of mine. This was

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probably early nineties. So we drove in hike down to

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this spot, went hunting for the day, out and about

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and all of that, and came back, set up a

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little camp more like a cowboy camp, no tents or anything,

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you know, just kinda set up and spent the night

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by this waterfall. In the morning, when it started getting

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light out, the sun's hitting the hillside, these rocks start

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falling off the hillside, and you know, we just kind

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of attributed it to you know, like you get the

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frost and heating up and the expansion of the rocks

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and all of that, rocks are falling off the hillside,

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so we kind of didn't kind of blew it off.

237
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And so we're sitting there making coffee, cooking breakfast, you know,

238
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kind of banner around with each other, you know, the

239
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typical guy stuff in the morning, and these rocks keep

240
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coming down the hillside, and then all of a sudden,

241
00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,039
one splashes in the middle of the pool, at the

242
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,799
bottom of the bottom of the waterfall, and it's like

243
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,600
we all kind of look at each other, and then

244
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we sit there and then we're quiet. We're sitting there

245
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watching and right out of the woodline comes one it's

246
00:15:25,799 --> 00:15:29,600
probably the size of a large grapefruit, comes flying out

247
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:35,919
of the woodline, clears everything, and splashes into the water again.

248
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And then we're all like and kind of freaking out.

249
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One of my buddies was like, oh, it's bigfoot, you know, yeah,

250
00:15:45,759 --> 00:15:47,840
you know. And so, I mean, we all kind of

251
00:15:47,879 --> 00:15:50,720
came to that consensus. We didn't see anything. There weren't

252
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:56,879
any roars, there was no crazy banging bushes, breaking trees,

253
00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:02,960
no nothing. Probably I think maybe three four more rocks

254
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:07,240
came out, and then we just decided, well, we're probably

255
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,240
not going to go hunting today, you know, I mean,

256
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,320
because realistically, I mean, we all had handguns with us

257
00:16:15,399 --> 00:16:18,480
and stuff too, but I mean our hunting equipment were

258
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,399
black powdered rifles, and yeah, I don't yeah, I wasn't

259
00:16:22,399 --> 00:16:24,039
going to go out the woods running around with black

260
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,440
pottered rifles with something that was throwing rocks that big

261
00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:28,039
off the hill.

262
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Speaker 2: I mean, whenever you're faced with that situation, Yeah, I

263
00:16:32,799 --> 00:16:36,679
think the most logical conclusion to reach is it's time

264
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,960
to retreat. Yeah, that ain't people. And if it is,

265
00:16:40,159 --> 00:16:43,639
for some reason, people, they're clearly you know, they're throwing

266
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,960
rocks at a group of armed men. Yeah, then you

267
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:48,960
probably don't want to tangle with them anyway.

268
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm probably not, you know, I mean by that point,

269
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I mean I'd spent I served in the army for

270
00:16:58,039 --> 00:17:00,440
thirty years, and at that point, I been in the

271
00:17:00,559 --> 00:17:08,200
army for ten, probably twelve years, and I'd come back home,

272
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,319
you know, whenever i'd have leave or i'd you know,

273
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,640
have some kind of break or something, and I'd come

274
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:20,519
home go hunting. And then since since I retired, I've

275
00:17:20,519 --> 00:17:23,599
had a lot of my buddies coming up here, and

276
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,920
you know, they they come up and we go hunting

277
00:17:29,039 --> 00:17:31,720
or go fishing, or go do something, you know, because

278
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,880
they like the quiet, the being away from the city,

279
00:17:37,079 --> 00:17:41,759
the all the stuff. Some downtime, you know, some real

280
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:46,359
relaxing downtime and We've got some pretty nice lakes up here,

281
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,480
and so I've got a couple of jet skis. We

282
00:17:48,519 --> 00:17:50,920
go up jet ski and play on the boats, go fishing,

283
00:17:51,279 --> 00:17:55,160
camp out, do you know, depending on whatever time of

284
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,039
year it is, you know. So it's kind of like

285
00:17:57,559 --> 00:18:03,400
it's kind of like a chill spot vacation place to

286
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,160
online for some of my buddies.

287
00:18:05,759 --> 00:18:10,359
Speaker 2: You know, until grapefruit sized rocks start getting thrown at you.

288
00:18:12,519 --> 00:18:17,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that was. That was That's got to be.

289
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:23,200
That's got to be about sixty miles maybe give or

290
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:27,200
take south of where I'm at here, you know, so

291
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,400
it's a lot different part of the state. Well, it's

292
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,640
not different, it's just farther south. The mountains are a

293
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,720
little more rugged up here where I'm at. So to

294
00:18:36,759 --> 00:18:39,240
give to throw it into context to where I'm at,

295
00:18:39,599 --> 00:18:45,519
it's I'm I'm in a little town along Highway twenty

296
00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:54,359
North Cascades in Washington, and from Highway twenty it's you

297
00:18:54,440 --> 00:19:02,559
go all the way up through thousands. Probably it's gonna

298
00:19:02,559 --> 00:19:07,319
be it's gonna be sixty miles I think up to

299
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:12,200
the next major highway going north and then any road

300
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:13,839
that you're going to cross if you come out of

301
00:19:13,839 --> 00:19:16,160
my town and you go straight north, the only roads

302
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,839
that you're going to cross after you cross Highway are

303
00:19:18,839 --> 00:19:22,799
gonna be dirt logging roads. Until you're well into Canada,

304
00:19:23,519 --> 00:19:28,240
there's there's nothing that you're going to cross. And going

305
00:19:28,279 --> 00:19:34,480
to the west of US, the little cities get progressively

306
00:19:35,319 --> 00:19:39,279
progressively larger. They're not huge, no major cities up here,

307
00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:42,720
kind of where I'm at Bellingham up to the north

308
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:50,960
north of US, but going going to the east side, it's, uh,

309
00:19:52,279 --> 00:19:57,000
you're going to be one hundred miles before you get

310
00:19:57,039 --> 00:19:59,960
to another town that's at least as big as mine,

311
00:20:00,319 --> 00:20:06,519
and that'd be Winthrop. To the east, and on the

312
00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:11,640
south side of US, there's just it's just wilderness. I

313
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,680
mean we're up in the Cascade Mountain Range and it's uh,

314
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:21,079
it's just there's literally millions of acres of land that

315
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:28,079
have no houses, no development, no nothing. It's just straight

316
00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:32,839
up wilderness land. If you look on a map, Google

317
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:38,279
Earth or something, it's just wide open for just just miles,

318
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,759
I mean literally millions of acres of land.

319
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,160
Speaker 2: That kind of expanse is just crazy for me to

320
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,279
think about even now. I mean, I know it's there,

321
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,200
you know, we all know it's there, but we get

322
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,160
so caught up. I see people on the internet, especially,

323
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,799
you know, talking about you know, the population is much

324
00:20:56,839 --> 00:21:00,599
too large. There's no way these things could remain hidden.

325
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:05,119
But I don't think people really understand how just wild

326
00:21:05,599 --> 00:21:09,480
and remote a lot of the United States still is. Yeah,

327
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,119
I mean most people live in the cities, you know,

328
00:21:12,279 --> 00:21:14,559
and the towns and everything, but in between all those

329
00:21:14,559 --> 00:21:15,960
places is just wilderness.

330
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:16,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

331
00:21:16,759 --> 00:21:23,680
Speaker 2: I'm in northeastern Oklahoma, and if I drive for an

332
00:21:23,799 --> 00:21:28,519
hour and a half or so west, I hit Oklahoma City,

333
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,279
you know, the largest city in the state. If I

334
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,920
go south for four hours, I'm in the middle of

335
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:39,000
downtown Dallas, you know. But out there you're just in

336
00:21:39,079 --> 00:21:41,640
the forest in the mountains. There's nothing out there.

337
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,359
Speaker 1: I mean you really have to just like get on

338
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,920
a map or Google Earth does it the best because

339
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:48,680
you can kind of zoom in and look at the

340
00:21:48,759 --> 00:21:52,039
highways and stuff and see what's along them. And then

341
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:57,480
as you zoom out, you start realizing the massive expanse

342
00:21:57,599 --> 00:22:02,880
that there is with nothing here, I mean nothing, It's

343
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:08,079
just immense. And the people talk about the Rocky Mountains

344
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,599
and and all of that, Well, the Rocky Mountains are cool,

345
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,519
but they're they're high, and they're gradually high above sea level,

346
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:19,160
and they're not nearly as rugged as the mountains up here.

347
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,480
The North Cascades are like the they're like the Alps.

348
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:30,599
They're they're rugged, uh sharp steep peaks, and it's uh,

349
00:22:30,759 --> 00:22:36,559
it's it's a whole different mountain range. It's hard to

350
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,640
get into the woods. You know, you're going to follow

351
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,799
a You're gonna have to follow a creek or a

352
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,880
river or something to travel off into the woods. And

353
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:49,680
there's there's there's some trails in here, and you know,

354
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:54,839
the Pacific Crestrail runs through from Canada down, but that's

355
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,559
that's ways to the east of US. But I mean,

356
00:22:57,599 --> 00:22:59,880
you're going to get on that from a highway and

357
00:23:00,039 --> 00:23:04,519
then you're gonna go you're going to go from basically

358
00:23:04,599 --> 00:23:07,759
up here Highway twenty. You're going to go south. If

359
00:23:07,759 --> 00:23:09,680
you're going south, you're going to go to highway too.

360
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:14,759
So you're going to go sixty miles overland with nothing

361
00:23:15,839 --> 00:23:20,000
in between. And then from there you're going to go

362
00:23:20,279 --> 00:23:24,279
overland again down to A ninety, which is going to

363
00:23:24,279 --> 00:23:28,680
be another forty to fifty miles with nothing. I mean,

364
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,359
it's just the wilderness is just vast, and it's thick,

365
00:23:32,839 --> 00:23:35,920
and it's full of it's full of stuff. These these

366
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:41,559
high valleys are loaded with blueberries up here, just loaded

367
00:23:41,559 --> 00:23:46,599
with them in the summer, in the fall, and the

368
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,880
fish in the river. I mean, I took I took

369
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,000
my wife one year. She's never been much of a fisherman.

370
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,240
She's like, well, she finally wanted to go fish the

371
00:23:55,319 --> 00:23:57,799
river with me, you know, and stuff. And so I

372
00:23:57,799 --> 00:23:59,839
took her to the spot one year and we stood

373
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:03,680
up up on this high bank and I and I

374
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,559
pointed down to the river to her. I said, hey,

375
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,960
I said, what do you see down there? And she

376
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,960
goes the bottom of the river. I said, yeah, I said, well,

377
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,440
what are you see? And she goes a bunch of

378
00:24:13,559 --> 00:24:18,000
rocks and I go, you need to look a little closer,

379
00:24:18,039 --> 00:24:20,160
look at those rocks. And she's looking down there and

380
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,799
she goes, oh my god, I can't see the bottom

381
00:24:23,799 --> 00:24:27,519
of the river. She says, things that I thought were

382
00:24:27,759 --> 00:24:29,680
rocks were salmon.

383
00:24:30,759 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 2: Wow.

384
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:36,039
Speaker 1: You know. So there's plenty for them to eat. The berries,

385
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:41,960
the blackberries, the salmon berries, the huckleberries, the blueberries. The

386
00:24:42,599 --> 00:24:45,200
I mean, there's just tons of stuff and then there's

387
00:24:45,599 --> 00:24:49,359
different types of ferns and things and stuff. So I mean,

388
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,880
if you're sticking to a vegetarian diet, you're and you're

389
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,880
actually good at foraging, you're not going to starve to death.

390
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,960
Then then you start getting into the into the other game,

391
00:25:01,079 --> 00:25:04,000
the deer, the rabbits, the grouse, the all of that.

392
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,759
I mean, yeah, it's pretty pretty extensive.

393
00:25:08,079 --> 00:25:10,839
Speaker 2: Is this a place that you had been to before

394
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:11,960
previously for hunting?

395
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that was a spot that we'd go to.

396
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,319
I mean I took my wife there and showed her

397
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,960
this beautiful waterfall. You know, this was years later. I

398
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,079
took her there and showed her the waterfall and stuff.

399
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:28,279
And I've never had any other experiences around there, particularly

400
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,039
at that spot. But I mean we've had some. We've

401
00:25:31,079 --> 00:25:33,519
had some pretty good ones. I guess. The one, the

402
00:25:34,319 --> 00:25:38,519
one that Sarah called about or that I we got

403
00:25:38,519 --> 00:25:42,200
in touch about, was we had this this encounter up

404
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:47,720
here at this little lake. And uh, it's it's a

405
00:25:47,759 --> 00:25:51,359
spot where my wife had been camping for years as

406
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,640
she grew up. And it's a little place they call

407
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,599
it Depression Lake. They used to stock it with fish

408
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,359
for the kids to make it a spot can take

409
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,480
kids and they'd catch fish pretty easily. And a lot

410
00:26:03,559 --> 00:26:05,079
of people used to go up there and camp. It

411
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,440
was free camping, kind of disperse camping like BLM camp

412
00:26:09,519 --> 00:26:13,440
type stuff. And there were a bunch of people camped

413
00:26:13,519 --> 00:26:16,119
up there, and we went up for a weekend and thought,

414
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,559
you know, so did the regular camping thing. Took the

415
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,240
kids out fishing for the day, sat around the fire

416
00:26:23,279 --> 00:26:28,119
at night, all of that went to bed and in

417
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,839
the motor room. We had our motor room up there.

418
00:26:31,319 --> 00:26:37,000
And I'm like I said, I was in the army,

419
00:26:37,039 --> 00:26:40,319
I served thirty years. I've got PTSD issues. I don't

420
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,559
want to go down that road too far, but I

421
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,279
get nightmares and stuff. And so I'm laying there sleeping

422
00:26:46,519 --> 00:26:48,720
and I'm trying to blow off this nightmare that I've

423
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,160
gotten go back to sleep, and then my wife starts

424
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,839
poking at me, and I start realizing, well, I'm not

425
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,440
having a nightmare. All of this noise and all of

426
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:07,799
this stuff going on is is real. It's happening in

427
00:27:07,839 --> 00:27:13,240
the real world. I'm actually awake, and my wife's pushing

428
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:18,720
on me, and she says, since you hear that, I said, yeah.

429
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,240
We sat there and listened to it, and it was

430
00:27:21,799 --> 00:27:27,079
it was so loud. We're we're inside the motor home

431
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,640
and it's a a permeating noise. I mean, you can

432
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:36,880
you can feel the sound of these things on the

433
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:42,200
hill right behind where we're camped, and it's going and

434
00:27:42,279 --> 00:27:46,200
it's just it's cora. It's just crazy. I mean, I've

435
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:52,680
heard I've heard cougar's fighting, which is probably the second

436
00:27:53,559 --> 00:27:58,240
craziest scariest type noise that I've heard out the woods,

437
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,079
tungers fighting, bears, you know, all all of that. This

438
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,279
thing was so it was so deep, it was it

439
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:11,480
was like you you've felt the sound in your body

440
00:28:12,079 --> 00:28:15,759
and it's like all my hair started standing up. And

441
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,400
I was just like, I can't I can't place and

442
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,680
couldn't place the noise. Can't place the noise to any

443
00:28:20,759 --> 00:28:25,880
kind of and it was it was angry, loud, violent,

444
00:28:27,759 --> 00:28:34,480
just overwhelming and uh uh, my wife. That's when my

445
00:28:34,559 --> 00:28:38,599
wife says, uh, it's it stopped. And as it stopped,

446
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,400
all the coyotes there's all kinds of coyotes were going

447
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,559
off and stuff. And that's when my wife says to me,

448
00:28:45,079 --> 00:28:48,680
we we we don't belong here. We got to go

449
00:28:50,119 --> 00:28:53,440
and uh I And I said to her, and I'm

450
00:28:53,799 --> 00:28:57,519
being the the consummate smart ass that I am. I mean,

451
00:28:57,559 --> 00:29:02,200
it's just up. I looked at her and I said,

452
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,559
all right, honey, I said, I'll start the motor home

453
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,960
and you run outside and grabbed the lawn chairs, right.

454
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,960
And she looks at me in total fear and says,

455
00:29:15,279 --> 00:29:18,279
I'm not going out there, and I said either the

456
00:29:18,599 --> 00:29:26,880
am I and uh so we we didn't go out.

457
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,240
But there's all these other campers out there, and they

458
00:29:30,279 --> 00:29:38,799
start lights are coming on, cars, trucks are starting up. It. Uh.

459
00:29:40,119 --> 00:29:43,680
People were just at that point, it was like people

460
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:48,039
intents were packing up to leave. Wow. Uh, it was

461
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:54,000
crazy bye bye probably And this was probably three o'clock

462
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,440
in the morning. By seven o'clock in the morning there

463
00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:01,680
was there There were us, another guy in a camp

464
00:30:01,759 --> 00:30:05,240
or with his three dogs. And then on the other

465
00:30:05,359 --> 00:30:10,359
end of the campground there was a gal who'd camped

466
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:16,000
in a tent with her three kids. And I didn't

467
00:30:16,039 --> 00:30:18,440
I didn't know any of this until the next day

468
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,680
when we talked to her. She camped there with her

469
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:26,480
three kids, and her husband worked the night shift at

470
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,039
a place down in town, and so they'd stay up there.

471
00:30:30,079 --> 00:30:32,440
He'd come up for the day, spend the whole day

472
00:30:32,519 --> 00:30:36,319
up there. Then he'd go work from midnight until like,

473
00:30:36,759 --> 00:30:38,599
I don't know, eight o'clock in the morning, and then

474
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,039
he'd come back sleep for a couple hours. And then

475
00:30:42,599 --> 00:30:45,079
so they were doing that, they'd been camping up there

476
00:30:45,119 --> 00:30:49,839
for a week. Oh wow, was all alone in the

477
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,240
tent with those kids. Well, all of that was going on.

478
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,960
And the next morning she comes walking over and she's

479
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,960
walking along the road and she's real meek, and she goes,

480
00:31:00,279 --> 00:31:03,559
she's like hi, and my wife's like hi, you know,

481
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,000
we got a little fire going. And she goes, she goes,

482
00:31:07,079 --> 00:31:10,839
did did you guys hear that last night? And my

483
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,640
wife was like yeah, it wasn't that crazy. And then

484
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:19,160
they're both like, I mean, just going on and on

485
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,960
and on about it and stuff. And so we had

486
00:31:24,039 --> 00:31:26,200
planned to leave that day. We were just going to

487
00:31:26,279 --> 00:31:30,440
spend the one night. But my wife was like, oh, yeah,

488
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,400
we're not going anywhere until your husband gets back, and

489
00:31:33,519 --> 00:31:38,039
we're probably not going anywhere real soon anyway, And we

490
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,279
promised to leave her all of our camp, all of

491
00:31:40,319 --> 00:31:43,559
our firewood and stuff that we had and all of that,

492
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,640
you know, so yeah, when her husband got back, I

493
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,039
think it was probably still it was probably three four

494
00:31:50,079 --> 00:31:53,799
hours and then we finally left. But it was it

495
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,880
was crazy. The guy in the camphor with the three dogs,

496
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,720
he wouldn't even talk about it. He wouldn't even talk

497
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,559
about We were just like, do you hear all that

498
00:32:02,839 --> 00:32:06,599
last night? You know? And he's like, yep, I mean

499
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,160
that was it. It was just like yep. Then he

500
00:32:09,359 --> 00:32:13,160
just like turned around walked off like you know, and

501
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,480
then he packed up. He left before we did.

502
00:32:16,079 --> 00:32:19,039
Speaker 2: Well, was it more of screaming or roaring? How would

503
00:32:19,039 --> 00:32:19,960
you describe the sound?

504
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: It was a screaming, roaring, violent screaming. I mean it

505
00:32:29,759 --> 00:32:34,880
was like it was like, I'm I'm I'm totally convinced

506
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,279
that that that whatever, whatever it was, because I didn't

507
00:32:38,279 --> 00:32:42,920
see it, I'm totally convinced it's it's press. What it

508
00:32:43,119 --> 00:32:45,559
was doing was trumck was chasing us out of there.

509
00:32:46,559 --> 00:32:48,359
It was to chase all of us out of there

510
00:32:50,599 --> 00:32:54,640
because it was it was so intense and there was

511
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:59,680
more than one there. There was more than one. I

512
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:00,519
don't oh how.

513
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 2: Many were they all in the same area, all in.

514
00:33:04,119 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: The same area. It's uh, they were on top of

515
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,680
this hill that's at the end of this little lake,

516
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,880
And they were on top of this hill behind where

517
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,599
everybody was camped at, And it kind of makes like

518
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,240
a quarter of the little camp makes like a quarter

519
00:33:17,279 --> 00:33:21,200
of a circle around the bottom of that hill. Yeah,

520
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,359
they were right on top of it, right on top

521
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,920
of that hill, right behind us. They couldn't have been

522
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:32,920
one hundred yards from the camp. And I can't think

523
00:33:33,079 --> 00:33:38,279
of anything, I mean, I can't think of any creature

524
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,720
that I can relate it to that could make that

525
00:33:43,079 --> 00:33:50,720
much noise, that loud, that long, that sustained that. I mean,

526
00:33:51,039 --> 00:33:55,720
just absolute crazy noise.

527
00:33:57,039 --> 00:34:00,079
Speaker 2: Did it sound more human or more animalty?

528
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: It sounded more I'm gonna say more like but not

529
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:15,320
a gorilla, but like that kind of solidness to this,

530
00:34:15,599 --> 00:34:20,880
to the noise, you know, I mean, it's like the

531
00:34:21,079 --> 00:34:24,880
vocal strength of whatever it was that was making that

532
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:30,519
noise was absolutely incredible, absolutely incredible.

533
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,599
Speaker 2: I mean, whenever it comes to people, anytime we scream

534
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,239
or shout or get loud, it's a very quick duration.

535
00:34:41,519 --> 00:34:44,280
And and what you heard was much more sustained than that.

536
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, I mean it was. Boy, some

537
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:56,039
of the some of those haulers I'm gonna say, went

538
00:34:56,079 --> 00:35:03,719
on for twenty fifteen twenty seconds. Oh wow, loud, I

539
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:09,920
mean loud, but it was it was more like it

540
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:14,159
was like there were there had to have been multiples

541
00:35:14,199 --> 00:35:16,800
of them because they were made, because you could hear

542
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,039
you could hear the overlays in the sounds. It wasn't

543
00:35:20,079 --> 00:35:21,719
like one of them just stood up and did some

544
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,480
kind of you know and then another one did it

545
00:35:25,599 --> 00:35:28,519
or something. It was like it sounded like they were

546
00:35:28,639 --> 00:35:32,519
fighting each other kind of you know, where it was

547
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,519
one was making some big, violent, loud scream and another

548
00:35:37,559 --> 00:35:39,480
one to join in right over the top of it,

549
00:35:39,639 --> 00:35:43,920
and another one in there, you know, and I mean

550
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,840
it just kept going back and forth and back and forth.

551
00:35:47,199 --> 00:35:50,239
I mean, it was just it was just crazy crazy.

552
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,559
Speaker 2: Once you kind of woke up and realized what was

553
00:35:53,599 --> 00:35:57,039
going on and had time to process everything, did you

554
00:35:57,119 --> 00:35:59,079
instantly think that's bigfoot?

555
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,320
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I thought. I totally agreed with my wife.

556
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:08,199
It was monsters. Monsters we don't belong here. Yeah, I

557
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:13,079
mean yeah, I mean, you know, I'm not I'm not kidding.

558
00:36:13,119 --> 00:36:14,800
I mean, I've done a lot of hunting and I've

559
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:20,159
I've heard lots of stuff. I mean, I've been I've

560
00:36:20,159 --> 00:36:23,239
been tracked by cougars in the woods. I've heard cougar's fighting.

561
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,239
I've heard bears fighting. I've heard you know. I mean

562
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,719
I sat on the back porch here the elk scream

563
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:33,559
and rattling antlers and you know, and I uh, it's

564
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:43,599
uh yeah, it was uncomparable. I have it was. It

565
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,199
was uncomparable hearing cougar's fight. Have you ever heard a

566
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,000
recording of two cougars fighting.

567
00:36:49,199 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's scary, it is.

568
00:36:52,599 --> 00:36:59,199
Speaker 1: I mean, it's okay, that's nothing. That's nothing, I mean,

569
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:04,719
nothing compared to this amount of this amount of craziness. Nothing.

570
00:37:05,639 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 2: So we have two different situations here. We have a

571
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:13,519
situation where you're with a couple of armed individuals hunting,

572
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,480
and then we have a situation where you're camping with

573
00:37:16,559 --> 00:37:20,440
your wife and there's other people camping. In one situation,

574
00:37:20,559 --> 00:37:25,719
you have rock throwing, but the rock throwing it didn't

575
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:30,800
seem like you guys were targeted necessarily definitely trying to

576
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,079
get your attention, but they weren't throwing the rocks at you,

577
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,360
is what I mean by that, But no vocalizations. And

578
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,760
then you have this other scenario where no rock throwing

579
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:46,159
that we know of, and just intense vocalizations. I would guess,

580
00:37:46,559 --> 00:37:49,039
you know, tell me if you agree or disagree that

581
00:37:49,159 --> 00:37:52,360
both of these scenarios, although completely different, had the same

582
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:53,440
purpose behind.

583
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: Them, right absolutely.

584
00:37:57,079 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 2: Why do you think one handled it one way and

585
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:00,400
one handled it the other?

586
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: Well, if my opinion on that's going to be one

587
00:38:07,599 --> 00:38:12,679
was three guys and the other one was probably thirty

588
00:38:12,679 --> 00:38:17,280
to forty people. There had to have been between between

589
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,119
the people that were camped there, their kids and everything.

590
00:38:21,159 --> 00:38:24,960
There had to have been thirty plus people in that campground.

591
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,400
You know, it's not a very big campground, but there

592
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,079
had to have been thirty plus people in there, and

593
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,679
you know, people having campfires at night and all that,

594
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,360
and just the amount of people that were there. If

595
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,599
they were trying to drive something away, well I think,

596
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,519
you know, it's kind of the they needed more backup.

597
00:38:46,599 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 2: I don't know any idea why they would want to

598
00:38:50,519 --> 00:38:53,519
drive you out of the area in either scenario.

599
00:38:55,559 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 1: I think the first and the first one where we

600
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:02,440
were at the waterfall, I think that one, uh, that

601
00:39:02,639 --> 00:39:05,320
one was more like, hey, this is kind of our place,

602
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:06,840
you know, I just want you to know that we're

603
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:12,199
here and maybe we kind of don't appreciate people being

604
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:21,400
around and I the second one was more like, boy,

605
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:21,960
I don't.

606
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 2: Know, pissed off.

607
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:31,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was. It was an angry thing. Now,

608
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:35,159
I'm not sure, you know, it's like I've joked around

609
00:39:35,159 --> 00:39:39,599
with the story in this experience a few times. It

610
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:44,519
like it's like, you know, it's like, hey, Freddy, what

611
00:39:44,519 --> 00:39:46,480
do you say? You and me and Scotty and we

612
00:39:46,519 --> 00:39:48,400
get together and we go down and scare a bunch

613
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,559
of campers, you know. Yeah, I mean, you know, or

614
00:39:53,159 --> 00:39:57,320
or maybe they really were trying to drive us out

615
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,079
of there or what. But I mean, yeah, it was.

616
00:40:01,679 --> 00:40:03,760
I mean I've been back to that lake plenty of

617
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:10,239
times since then. It's you know, I've gone up there

618
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:14,400
and gone fishing since since then, though it's probably been

619
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,079
I think it was, Oh, it probably took him five

620
00:40:19,159 --> 00:40:23,159
years or so. But they closed that campground.

621
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 2: Oh, they closed it.

622
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,679
Speaker 1: Completely, put big boulders at the end of the road

623
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:30,519
so you can't turn off the main road to even

624
00:40:30,599 --> 00:40:34,719
drive down in there. And then the other end of

625
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,000
the lake is kind of over by the dam on

626
00:40:37,119 --> 00:40:40,719
Baker Lake and it's got an actual gate put across

627
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,320
the other end. Of the lake so that you can't

628
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:44,679
get in from the other end at all.

629
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 2: Huh makes you wonder. Yeah, in that first event, whenever

630
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,679
you were hunting and they are throwing the rocks and

631
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,960
you guys decided to go ahead and leave, anything happened

632
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,960
on your way out, did the rock throwing just instantly stop?

633
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:04,559
Speaker 1: No, it just it just it pretty much stopped after

634
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,920
those few that were thrown, after the initial ones that

635
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,840
we noticed that went into the into the pool. I mean,

636
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:12,719
it was kind of obvious that we were going to

637
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:14,960
pack up and leave. I mean, we pretty much just

638
00:41:15,039 --> 00:41:17,599
started packing up and leaving. I mean, none of us

639
00:41:17,679 --> 00:41:19,400
were going to wander off into the woods that day.

640
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,719
You know, I'm not uh, I'm not. I guess I'm

641
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,119
a little bit fatter than I used to be, but

642
00:41:26,199 --> 00:41:30,719
I'm not a big guy, you know. Uh. And I

643
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,119
didn't feel comfortable going off into the woods that day

644
00:41:33,159 --> 00:41:39,760
with a black powdered rifle, you know, I mean I just, uh, yeah,

645
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:44,320
it wasn't gonna happen, you know, after that. And it's

646
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,880
and it's not because I saw anything. It's that it's

647
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,480
that sense of whatever it is growing up here in

648
00:41:50,559 --> 00:41:54,360
Sasquat stories all of that, you know, I just didn't

649
00:41:54,400 --> 00:42:00,599
feel comfortable right going out separated from you know, I mean,

650
00:42:00,639 --> 00:42:05,079
and we'd had separate, separate spur logging roads area that

651
00:42:05,199 --> 00:42:07,800
we were going to go off into different areas, you know,

652
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,639
and had it all mapped out how we were going

653
00:42:10,679 --> 00:42:13,599
to do it that day and circle back in and

654
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,519
you know, in what we were going to do, the

655
00:42:16,559 --> 00:42:18,760
different places that we had picked out that each one

656
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:20,480
of us were going to go. It wasn't like we

657
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,719
were going to walk off, you know, three guys together

658
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,440
walk off, you know, I mean, that's kind of not productive.

659
00:42:28,199 --> 00:42:34,119
Speaker 2: Interestingly enough, there was in my younger years I used

660
00:42:34,159 --> 00:42:36,960
to go out and do actual bigfoot investigations and look

661
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:41,559
for these things. And the area I would go to

662
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:48,039
was a National park, a big camp ground site, and

663
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,840
just south of there there was another campground area by

664
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,599
a lake that kind of connected to it. It was

665
00:42:55,639 --> 00:42:58,760
about seven miles south of where I was normally at

666
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:05,800
this place, it's called Buckhorn, and we I've camped down

667
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,079
there before. Nothing happened while I was there, but we

668
00:43:09,119 --> 00:43:11,639
would hear stories every now and then because I was

669
00:43:11,679 --> 00:43:13,440
friends with some of the people that lived in the

670
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:18,679
local town nearby. And these campgrounds would have a camp host,

671
00:43:19,039 --> 00:43:21,519
usually a retired couple that lived in, you know, an

672
00:43:21,639 --> 00:43:25,039
RV at the campsites and just kind of look after

673
00:43:25,079 --> 00:43:28,159
the place, and we befriended them and they would tell

674
00:43:28,199 --> 00:43:30,559
us stories and everything. And one of the things that happened,

675
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,159
and again I did not experience this, so this is

676
00:43:34,199 --> 00:43:39,199
only second hen but it was in the summer, and

677
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,519
there was quite a few people in the campgrounds. I'm

678
00:43:43,559 --> 00:43:46,599
not sure how many, but it was, you know, pretty

679
00:43:46,599 --> 00:43:51,119
well occupied, and something which the people that were there

680
00:43:51,159 --> 00:43:55,119
and witnessed it believe it was a bigfoot around three

681
00:43:55,159 --> 00:43:58,719
o'clock in the morning, just like you're describing, just started

682
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,039
screaming and roaring and walking right through the middle of

683
00:44:02,039 --> 00:44:05,679
the campgrounds, and it wreaked everybody out, and the majority

684
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,079
of them all packed up and hauled it out there

685
00:44:08,119 --> 00:44:10,079
in the middle of the night, just like you're talking

686
00:44:10,119 --> 00:44:15,400
about another campground with another very similar situation. So I

687
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,079
wonder if that's just maybe a tactic they use in

688
00:44:19,159 --> 00:44:22,199
those situations.

689
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:26,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, they want you to know it's their place,

690
00:44:27,119 --> 00:44:31,480
and I don't know, we don't want you here. I've

691
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:36,159
got so many theories about a lot of that and

692
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:40,320
a lot of their behaviors, you know, because I mean

693
00:44:41,039 --> 00:44:43,719
and those are by no means the only two experiences

694
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:45,440
I've had. I had one right on the other side

695
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,880
of the river from where we're at. There's another spot

696
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,159
that I go. I used to go grouse hunting all

697
00:44:51,199 --> 00:44:53,239
the time. I don't go up there by myself anymore,

698
00:44:54,119 --> 00:44:56,039
but it used to be one of my favorite spots

699
00:44:56,079 --> 00:44:59,760
to go up and go grouse hunting alone. You know,

700
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:03,239
it's all wilderness. It's another big area, and there's old

701
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,840
logging roads. There's a couple of forest service roads that

702
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,719
go all the way through, and then there's these old

703
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,880
spur roads that go off and they're all rocked and

704
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,360
they have been for years, and they've got trees grown

705
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,320
up through the roads and all of that. And so

706
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,000
I go up there and walk these roads and go

707
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:24,039
grouse hunting. And on one of the first times into

708
00:45:24,119 --> 00:45:28,519
this one area, I walked down this road and this was, oh,

709
00:45:28,559 --> 00:45:31,920
this was probably ten years ago, I think, the first

710
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,719
time I started hunting in there. And I walk in

711
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:42,840
this road and I remember this spot very clearly because

712
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,360
I walked down this road and I walked around the

713
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:51,840
corner and heading down this road and there's trees. It's

714
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:57,960
a conifer forest area, you know, and the trees are

715
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,559
kind of grown in over the top of the road.

716
00:45:59,559 --> 00:46:01,280
And I don't know if you've ever grouse on it

717
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:05,079
or any experience with grouse when when they take off

718
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:10,519
and it's like an explosion with their wings, their wings

719
00:46:10,599 --> 00:46:15,119
slap above them and below them, so they're slapping their

720
00:46:15,159 --> 00:46:19,280
wings as they're flapping their wings. So I walk into

721
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,400
this area and I'm looking down the road and I'm

722
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,880
looking around, and I walk under this tree, and four

723
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,239
feet from my head is this grouse that I missed

724
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,559
seeing on this branch. And he just explodes into his

725
00:46:35,599 --> 00:46:40,960
wing flapping to take off, you know, and he flew

726
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,559
down the road in front of me. His mistake, you know.

727
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,920
So I ate him for dinner that night. But I

728
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:52,199
remember this spot specifically, and I've got a little Forest

729
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:55,199
Tracks GPS that I wear on my wrists, and so

730
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,519
I'll mark all of these spots that I've shot a

731
00:46:58,599 --> 00:47:04,880
grouse because they're generally you can almost you can almost

732
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,880
guarantee if you find grouse in one spot, you're gonna

733
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:12,719
find more grouse in that spot next year, and the

734
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:17,360
year after, and the year after within you know, one

735
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:21,400
hundred feet of that spot. For some reason, it's like

736
00:47:21,519 --> 00:47:27,159
the type of clover that they're eating, or the berries

737
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,840
or something. But so I always mark those spots. And

738
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,159
on the other side of the road from where I

739
00:47:35,199 --> 00:47:37,920
was at, and I'm talking an overgrown, old logging road,

740
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:42,639
it was probably thirty feet wide, and on the other

741
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:45,519
side there was this tree stump on the other side

742
00:47:45,519 --> 00:47:49,000
of the road right there. And so I'd gone up

743
00:47:49,039 --> 00:47:56,039
there probably five six times after I shot that grouse,

744
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,719
And the last time I went up there, I walked

745
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,559
down that road and there was this big rock that

746
00:48:02,639 --> 00:48:05,079
had always been at the bottom of this tree stump,

747
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,920
and it was on top of the tree stump. And

748
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:17,840
it's a rock. It's probably slightly larger around than an

749
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:22,440
average garbage can lid. And it was picked out of

750
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:24,599
the hole, picked out of the spot that it was

751
00:48:24,599 --> 00:48:27,679
sitting in, and set on the top of the stump.

752
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,320
And I mean, you can't you can't drive back in

753
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:36,559
there because there's trees growing up through the road. Yeah,

754
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:42,800
there was no sign of anybody, you know, like wrestling

755
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,360
this rock out. It was literally like, you know, you

756
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,480
reach down, you pick up a rock that's like half

757
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:49,440
buried in the ground and you pluck it out of

758
00:48:49,079 --> 00:48:54,079
the hole. It was just like that. There was no

759
00:48:54,199 --> 00:48:57,480
disturbance around the area. It wasn't like the rock was

760
00:48:58,079 --> 00:49:02,079
rolled or levered out of that hole. It was like

761
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:06,880
somebody plucked that rock out of that hole and stuck

762
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:08,480
it on the top of that tree stump.

763
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,119
Speaker 2: And how tall is the tree stump?

764
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,760
Speaker 1: Oh, it's uh. If I walked up onto the root

765
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,719
ball and put my hand up, it was about about

766
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:22,280
that tall. I could just reach up and touch that rock.

767
00:49:25,199 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's requiring heavy machinery.

768
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it'd take I mean, if it was

769
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,199
guys doing it, you know, a bunch of guys together.

770
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:39,000
I got to figure it'd take ten fifteen guys to

771
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,280
wrestle that thing around realistically to be able to pick

772
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:43,880
it out of that hole like that. I don't know

773
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:45,880
how you do that without.

774
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 2: You know, And what would be the point exactly exactly?

775
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: And then I still wonder that exactly too, Really what

776
00:49:53,119 --> 00:49:56,760
is the point? What's the point of the rocks on

777
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,639
the stump? Because I've seen that, and I've heard people

778
00:49:59,679 --> 00:50:02,599
talk about that, and I've and I don't know, is

779
00:50:02,599 --> 00:50:06,800
it a territory marker? Is it a pathway marker? Is it?

780
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,719
You know, I don't get it because I've seen other

781
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,920
rocks on stumps. Yeah, and I've heard other people talking

782
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:18,199
about rocks on stumps, you know, but I never really

783
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:20,760
I always kind of I've always in the past. You know,

784
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,039
it's like I come through the woods. You know, it's like, oh,

785
00:50:23,079 --> 00:50:24,960
here's the spot, you know, it had been logged off

786
00:50:25,079 --> 00:50:27,039
years ago, and here's a rock on the stump, you know,

787
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,760
and I've always been like, oh, you know, it's always

788
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,000
been a something the loggers do to mess with people

789
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:37,239
or something, you know. I've always been semi skeptical about it,

790
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:41,000
you know, and and stuff. But no, no, no, well

791
00:50:41,039 --> 00:50:46,119
I'll tell you what firsthand. I've said. I've seen that

792
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:48,679
rock sitting there for years that I walked through there,

793
00:50:49,079 --> 00:50:51,159
and I always remember that spot. It was marked on

794
00:50:51,199 --> 00:50:55,440
my GPS, you know, I've shot grouse right there, and

795
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,239
then here I am years later, and that rock's plucked

796
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,320
out of that hole and stuck on the top of

797
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:00,880
that stump.

798
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:04,599
Speaker 2: And and other than the rock, there was no other

799
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,480
sign or anything that you can recall while being in

800
00:51:07,519 --> 00:51:10,480
that area that would ever alarm you.

801
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 1: No, that's one of those spots, you know, you always

802
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:14,599
get kind of the creeps, like something's watching me.

803
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.

804
00:51:16,599 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I I get to a lot of those

805
00:51:19,039 --> 00:51:21,960
spots out in the woods. You know, a lot of

806
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:23,719
people are into the big foot thing and want to

807
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:25,599
go out and chase around and find a big foot,

808
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:28,679
come face to face with sasquatch and all of that.

809
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,440
I guess I get that, but I don't. I'm not

810
00:51:32,599 --> 00:51:38,239
that guy, you know, I'm I'm not out in the

811
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:42,159
woods looking, you know, for him. I'm not chasing after him.

812
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,480
I mean, I think it's cool. I wish somebody had

813
00:51:44,519 --> 00:51:48,239
come up with some really good proof, you know, short

814
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:54,679
of killing one, you know something, you know that way,

815
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:58,840
But I'm not the bigfoot guy. I've I've had enough experiences.

816
00:51:59,119 --> 00:52:02,239
I've I've done a crazy stuff in my life. I mean,

817
00:52:02,559 --> 00:52:04,920
I I went to the Army in the eighties and

818
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,880
I've I've jumped out of airplanes, I've repelled from helicopters.

819
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,119
I've done what they call stable extractions, where you know,

820
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,000
you yank a bunch of guys out of the jungle

821
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:19,039
on a rope to to a helicopter. You know, I've

822
00:52:19,079 --> 00:52:23,800
done I've done uh helicast where you jump out of

823
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:30,639
helicopters into the water. I've I've you know, halo, high altitude,

824
00:52:30,679 --> 00:52:35,199
low opening parachute jumps, I've I've just I've done, I've done,

825
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:42,119
and I've been you know, uh Central South America, drug wars,

826
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:43,519
wars in the Middle East.

827
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:44,039
Speaker 2: Uh.

828
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:48,679
Speaker 1: Just I mean, I've I've done it, you know, And uh,

829
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,519
I just uh, I'm just not I'm I I've got

830
00:52:52,559 --> 00:52:56,119
a really uncomfortable story on on one of these that

831
00:52:56,159 --> 00:52:59,719
I haven't told yet. And uh, I'm just not I'm

832
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:03,199
just not that guy. I'm not gonna I'm just not

833
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:04,199
the Bigfoot guy.

834
00:53:04,519 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think, I mean, I think that's perfectly fine.

835
00:53:08,039 --> 00:53:10,880
I Mean, my own personal story was I was just

836
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,960
kind of always interested in the stuff, just in general,

837
00:53:15,079 --> 00:53:18,039
anything unexplained. Bigfoot just happened to be one of the

838
00:53:18,039 --> 00:53:20,719
things that I'd read about, you know, growing up and everything,

839
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:24,199
and got curious one night on the Internet and looked

840
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:26,519
up Bigfoot and kind of went down the rabbit hole,

841
00:53:27,159 --> 00:53:29,960
found a group of people, you know, here in Oklahoma

842
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:33,280
that was going out and looking and ended up meeting

843
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:35,400
up with them, and just I wanted to go out

844
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:37,599
and Okay, well, let's see if there's anything to this,

845
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,480
because the idea of it was really cool to me.

846
00:53:41,159 --> 00:53:42,760
But then you get out there and find out that

847
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,440
it's not just a myth and there really is something

848
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:49,239
to it, and things start to change. And for a

849
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:55,360
person that isn't going down that rabbit hole intentionally and

850
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:57,679
just kind of has the curtain jerk back in front

851
00:53:57,679 --> 00:54:00,880
of them, I mean, that can be pretty overwhelming.

852
00:54:02,119 --> 00:54:07,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and I think that that experience up

853
00:54:07,599 --> 00:54:09,800
at the lake with all the campers and everything that

854
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,760
was that was pretty intense. That was pretty spooky. That

855
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:16,480
sold me one hundred percent on the Big Foot one

856
00:54:16,519 --> 00:54:21,760
hundred percent. I mean, it's it's just like the rock

857
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,559
throwing thing, the other stuff, you know, all of that,

858
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,079
all the things that I've seen, you know, a little

859
00:54:27,159 --> 00:54:31,840
weirdness as a kid, the being watched in the woods,

860
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:38,239
hearing the tree knocking, you know, all of that kind

861
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:40,440
of stuff. I mean, my son and I were in

862
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,119
a canoe going along the edge of the lake trolling flies.

863
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,440
It was like the water was like glass. They're just

864
00:54:48,639 --> 00:54:52,159
perfect reflection of the mountains off of the water, with

865
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:54,480
that little bit of mist that floats on the top

866
00:54:54,519 --> 00:55:00,159
of the water. Just absolutely calm, still beautiful morning, know,

867
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:04,719
and something's following us along the bank, and every once

868
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:08,639
in a while it did bang a tree, and it

869
00:55:08,679 --> 00:55:11,000
was far enough back in the woods we never got

870
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:12,800
a look to see what it was, but there was

871
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:16,519
something there, and it followed us. Probably that was probably

872
00:55:16,559 --> 00:55:21,239
only oh, I don't know, half mile, maybe maybe three

873
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:24,679
quarters of a mile it followed us, but I mean,

874
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:29,239
it was clearly there, but it wouldn't show itself, which

875
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:31,199
kind of, I guess, kind of leads me into the

876
00:55:31,199 --> 00:55:33,840
other story. I guess the one that's the one that

877
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:35,639
pretty much drove me out of the woods.

878
00:55:37,119 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 2: I mean, nobody's forced to tell anything they don't want to,

879
00:55:41,519 --> 00:55:44,679
so I of course would love to hear the story.

880
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:46,960
I'm sure the listeners would love to hear the story.

881
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:48,760
But if you're not comfortable with telling it, I don't

882
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:49,480
want you to tell it.

883
00:55:50,599 --> 00:55:53,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, I uh, well, I'm going to tell it. I

884
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:58,679
mean a good portion of it enough to figure out,

885
00:55:59,679 --> 00:56:02,079
you know why I don't go up into the deep woods,

886
00:56:02,519 --> 00:56:05,480
especially by myself anymore. You know, when I was younger,

887
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:07,159
I used to go out in the woods all the time.

888
00:56:07,679 --> 00:56:09,760
All the time, I'd go out in the woods I'd

889
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:11,960
spend days out in the woods, me and my dog.

890
00:56:12,039 --> 00:56:15,039
I had a wolf husky hybrid dog. He was the

891
00:56:15,079 --> 00:56:18,760
greatest dog for the woods. I'd lay down, make a

892
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:21,119
bed someplace, and he'd pick out a spot where he

893
00:56:21,159 --> 00:56:25,199
could overwatch stuff at night and he'd do his thing.

894
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:29,599
I'd do mine, you know, and if there was anything weird,

895
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:33,679
he would come down to where I was at real quiet,

896
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,400
wake me up with his nose in my sleeping bag,

897
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,280
and then he'd look off in the direction of something

898
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:44,119
that he hurt or something, and he'd go buff, and

899
00:56:44,159 --> 00:56:47,079
then he'd look back over there. Then he'd look back

900
00:56:47,119 --> 00:56:49,440
down at me again and he'd do this real quiet

901
00:56:49,519 --> 00:56:52,960
buff and then look back over like there's something over there,

902
00:56:54,639 --> 00:56:58,079
you know. And he'd always he was the greatest dog

903
00:56:58,119 --> 00:57:01,920
to go out in the woods. And so I used

904
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:06,280
to spend a lot of time, I mean, the majority

905
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:09,159
of my free time. If I didn't have, you know,

906
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:11,519
no responsibilities that I hadn't take care of it home

907
00:57:11,599 --> 00:57:13,800
or with family or anything, you know, and I just

908
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:17,239
pack up and go to the woods, disappear and places

909
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:19,320
with no trails or anything. I didn't want to go

910
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:22,239
where there were trails, you know, because I didn't want

911
00:57:22,239 --> 00:57:24,760
to be around other people. You know. I'd pick out

912
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:27,039
a spot, find some little lake up in the top

913
00:57:27,079 --> 00:57:30,519
of the up in some little top of the mountain

914
00:57:30,679 --> 00:57:34,480
someplace or something that had specifically no road, no trail,

915
00:57:34,599 --> 00:57:39,280
no nothing to and hike into it and spend at

916
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:44,960
least a night around in the area. But yeah, so

917
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:50,760
this one, this goes back to another another event with

918
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:53,039
buddies of mine that had come up and go hunting.

919
00:57:53,119 --> 00:57:57,039
And so I had a friend of mine and we're

920
00:57:57,079 --> 00:58:01,800
still friends. It's not like had a friend nobody of mine.

921
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:05,480
He come up and he was still active in the

922
00:58:05,639 --> 00:58:09,119
army and had just come back from a deployment in Syria,

923
00:58:10,519 --> 00:58:13,960
and he wanted to spend a little time hanging out

924
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:19,320
with me and stuff, you know. And I'd retired two years,

925
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:24,199
I think two years before this, and he just wanted

926
00:58:24,199 --> 00:58:27,639
to come hang out, go hunt and relax, play in

927
00:58:27,639 --> 00:58:30,159
the woods. You know. He was a hunter too. And

928
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:33,239
so I had this old friend of mine that I

929
00:58:33,519 --> 00:58:37,320
that I knew lived in the valley up here, and

930
00:58:37,519 --> 00:58:40,199
he'd told me, oh, there's a spot you know, he

931
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:41,880
used to go hunting all the time up here, And

932
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:44,320
I thought, oh, yeah, I know, that place. I fly

933
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:48,199
fished that little creek, but I'd never gotten excuse me,

934
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:53,079
never gone up that creek. And he's telling me, oh, yeah, well,

935
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:54,800
I used to go up there and go hunting all

936
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:56,800
the time, and I always got, you know, my dear

937
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:59,800
that I was after whatever, you know, and he'd kind

938
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:06,280
of chuckle and stuff, you know, and I've seen I've

939
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:09,559
seen the racks that from the deers, that he's got

940
00:59:09,639 --> 00:59:11,920
a deer that he's got up there and stuff, and

941
00:59:12,519 --> 00:59:14,639
you know, so I was like, all right, I'm gonna

942
00:59:14,679 --> 00:59:16,199
check it out. I mean, at this time, he was

943
00:59:16,239 --> 00:59:19,599
probably seventy five push and eighty years old. He didn't

944
00:59:19,639 --> 00:59:22,000
go hunting or anything anymore either, you know, so he

945
00:59:22,119 --> 00:59:24,000
was kind of giving up some of his spots to

946
00:59:24,599 --> 00:59:27,920
people that he trusted, you know. So I tell my

947
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,000
buddy and we check it out on the map and

948
00:59:30,039 --> 00:59:32,079
figure it all out, and he gets up here and

949
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,840
we get all all set everything, and then the next

950
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:38,679
day we take off and go out and we go

951
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:43,079
this is to the east of me where I live,

952
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:47,480
and you go up Highway twenty, you cut off to

953
00:59:47,519 --> 00:59:50,039
the south down another little highway, and then you get

954
00:59:50,079 --> 00:59:52,480
on a dirt road you go nineteen miles up this

955
00:59:52,599 --> 00:59:58,440
dirt road into the woods and gets up on top

956
00:59:58,519 --> 01:00:01,679
of all of these peaks on the pretty much on

957
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:08,960
the edge of the National Park. Up here, we're still

958
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:12,079
outside of the park, but we're in the North Cascades,

959
01:00:12,159 --> 01:00:15,159
the you know, right on the edge of the National Park.

960
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,880
And so we parked the jeep and stuff at the

961
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:21,599
little bridge that goes over the creek, and we brought

962
01:00:21,639 --> 01:00:24,960
our brought our waiters because we figured, well, we're going

963
01:00:25,039 --> 01:00:28,280
to go up this valley about five miles through the

964
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,239
woods and then it's going to open up into where

965
01:00:31,239 --> 01:00:34,159
all the little headwater streams come into this little river,

966
01:00:35,159 --> 01:00:38,639
and it opens up into this whole great big bowl

967
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:43,239
and it's and it is. It's like a big bowl

968
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:46,679
with one side broken off. It's just got these real

969
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:50,760
high peaks all the way around this valley. And there's

970
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:53,079
really no other way in there other than to go

971
01:00:53,199 --> 01:00:58,079
up this creek. And so we're walking up the creek

972
01:00:58,599 --> 01:01:04,559
and heading up into there and walking along and uh,

973
01:01:04,639 --> 01:01:07,920
I stepped down, I almost step on this fish darts

974
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:09,800
out from in front of me and goes up the river.

975
01:01:10,239 --> 01:01:13,079
And I was like, hey, he said, that was a

976
01:01:13,079 --> 01:01:15,000
big fish. You know, and he's like, oh, you know,

977
01:01:15,119 --> 01:01:17,440
told him I almost stepped on and he's like, oh, yeah, whatever,

978
01:01:17,519 --> 01:01:20,280
you know, stepping on fish, and uh, I go a

979
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:24,440
little bit farther and another one darts out and I said,

980
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:26,480
now I almost stepped on another one. He's like, oh,

981
01:01:27,119 --> 01:01:29,000
you know, get a little bit farther up the creek

982
01:01:29,039 --> 01:01:31,559
and he's like, oh, big fish. And I'm like, yeah, sure,

983
01:01:32,239 --> 01:01:35,960
you know, yeah, buddy, whatever, you know. But there's so

984
01:01:36,039 --> 01:01:41,679
many fish in this creek. And this is uh, oh,

985
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:44,320
I don't know. It was modern deer season, so it

986
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:50,159
must have been uh, October, October, late October, I'm not sure,

987
01:01:50,199 --> 01:01:56,159
early November then uh and uh. So we keep going

988
01:01:56,239 --> 01:02:00,440
up the up this creek and climbing over stuff and everything,

989
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:04,039
and we make it almost up into where it starts

990
01:02:04,079 --> 01:02:07,039
to open up into the big We're starting to come

991
01:02:07,159 --> 01:02:10,800
out of the trees and it's starting to open up

992
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:19,880
into this alpine meadow valley, and my buddy says, he says, hey,

993
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:23,840
I feel like we're being watched. And I was like, yeah,

994
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:25,800
you know, I get that feeling a lot when we're

995
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:30,760
up here, you know, and you know, up in the

996
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:32,599
woods and stuff, and I kind of blow it off,

997
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:38,000
and we go a little bit farther and we're kind

998
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,239
of away from the creek by the time we get

999
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:42,159
up there because it had opened up enough that we

1000
01:02:42,159 --> 01:02:45,719
can move away from the creek. We'd changed into regular boots,

1001
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:49,440
kind of dropped our heavy gear and stuff because we

1002
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:55,840
figured we're going back out that way anyway and keep

1003
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:59,800
heading up aways. And he comes over to me a

1004
01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:02,639
little bit. He's probably about ten feet off from me,

1005
01:03:03,119 --> 01:03:04,840
and he comes over and he gets right next to

1006
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:09,639
my shoulder and he goes, there's somebody over there. I

1007
01:03:09,719 --> 01:03:16,400
go somebody and he goes, well something somebody not sure,

1008
01:03:18,159 --> 01:03:22,239
and so we stop and we're looking looking around, looking around.

1009
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:24,079
We stand there for a minute. It's like, yeah, I

1010
01:03:24,119 --> 01:03:30,199
don't see nothing, hear anything, nothing. So we start start

1011
01:03:30,239 --> 01:03:33,000
moving because we're still trying to get up into this valley.

1012
01:03:33,039 --> 01:03:35,440
Before we split off and try to go one was

1013
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:36,920
going to go around one side of the valley and

1014
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:39,039
one was going to go around the other side. Kind

1015
01:03:39,039 --> 01:03:41,320
of work our way around, and we'd figure we'd set

1016
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:46,159
a time to meet back up and see if we

1017
01:03:46,159 --> 01:03:49,199
can flush something out, chase something to one or the other,

1018
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:54,159
get a good you know whatever, and so we go

1019
01:03:54,199 --> 01:03:57,599
a little bit farther and uh, I've got really bad tonight.

1020
01:03:57,599 --> 01:04:01,800
It's my ears ring constantly, so I don't detail noises.

1021
01:04:03,079 --> 01:04:08,000
He comes back over to me and he says, somebody's

1022
01:04:08,039 --> 01:04:15,559
over there and they're talking, and I'm like, then I stop,

1023
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:20,400
and I start looking around. And by this time, I'm

1024
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:24,679
I mean, we're five miles plus up this valley, A

1025
01:04:25,199 --> 01:04:29,920
good five miles up this valley. There's no trail. I've

1026
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:35,159
had absolutely zero sign of any human activity at all whatsoever.

1027
01:04:35,639 --> 01:04:37,440
I mean, you can get off in the woods out here,

1028
01:04:37,519 --> 01:04:39,239
and as you kind of move off into the woods,

1029
01:04:39,239 --> 01:04:41,719
sometimes you'll come across something that says, hey, people have

1030
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:45,079
been here. I hadn't seen a rapper, I hadn't seen

1031
01:04:45,119 --> 01:04:48,360
a beer bottle, I hadn't seen nothing. I seen no

1032
01:04:48,679 --> 01:04:54,000
sign whatsoever of any kind of human activity at all, period.

1033
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:58,840
And so I'm thinking. I look at him. I said, well,

1034
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,800
there's no way there's people up here, and he goes, yeah,

1035
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:08,519
I know, and then he goes and there's somebody over

1036
01:05:08,559 --> 01:05:12,480
there too, and points to the other side of the valley.

1037
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:17,280
So we sit there for a little bit, we're looking around,

1038
01:05:18,719 --> 01:05:22,360
and then I start hearing and you can hear it

1039
01:05:22,519 --> 01:05:24,400
in the distance. It's like, you know, when you can

1040
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:27,079
hear somebody talking, but you can't hear what they're saying.

1041
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:39,840
It's this really deep, gruff, rumbly, solid sounding voice. I mean,

1042
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:49,239
it's you know, I mean, it's just deep and I

1043
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:51,760
can't make out any words, but it's like, yeah, that's

1044
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:57,280
definitely talking. And so we're looking around and then we

1045
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:02,239
start hearing things moving and I can't you can't. I

1046
01:06:02,239 --> 01:06:04,320
couldn't see anything because they're up in the edge of

1047
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:06,840
the bushes and it's like it's that whole thing where

1048
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:09,679
it's like it's right at the edge of where you

1049
01:06:09,719 --> 01:06:13,599
can't see it, but you can tell where it's at,

1050
01:06:15,239 --> 01:06:20,519
you know. And it's heavy movement. I mean it's heavy movement,

1051
01:06:20,679 --> 01:06:26,159
like bear heavy movement. And so I'm starting to get

1052
01:06:26,199 --> 01:06:29,480
creeped out because it's on both sides of us. We

1053
01:06:29,599 --> 01:06:33,360
can't see it. Whatever it is, it's talking, and we're

1054
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:41,639
both thinking what we're thinking, you know, yeah, And so

1055
01:06:41,679 --> 01:06:45,440
we decided, looking in the valley up where we're at,

1056
01:06:45,599 --> 01:06:47,320
we're going to go. We're going to move into an

1057
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:51,400
area where it's full of blueberry bushes that are about

1058
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:55,719
four feet tall, and you can you can walk through them,

1059
01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:59,519
you know. And it's like it's like we're both kind

1060
01:06:59,519 --> 01:07:02,320
of old schoo when it comes to hunting stuff, and

1061
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:05,039
because we've done so much stuff that way. It's like,

1062
01:07:05,559 --> 01:07:08,199
I've got a brand of hunting gear that's made by

1063
01:07:08,239 --> 01:07:12,840
a company called Filson's. It's old world oil skin stuff,

1064
01:07:14,239 --> 01:07:17,320
so it's real. It's they call it a tin cloth,

1065
01:07:18,239 --> 01:07:27,360
so it's real heavy snag resistant canvas, and so you

1066
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:32,719
can walk through the thickest, nastiest, craziest briers and you

1067
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:36,880
don't get stuck. You just walk through it. It's not

1068
01:07:37,119 --> 01:07:41,480
like modern material where it hangs up on everything, so

1069
01:07:41,599 --> 01:07:44,119
you can you can move through the bushes real freely,

1070
01:07:44,239 --> 01:07:47,760
real easy. But I'm thinking we're moving up into this

1071
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:53,000
area where I'm just going to be maybe head above

1072
01:07:53,039 --> 01:08:01,480
the bushes, and I'm not comfortable walking out into this

1073
01:08:01,639 --> 01:08:04,239
valley where I can see over the top of everything,

1074
01:08:04,719 --> 01:08:08,239
but everything can move underneath the bushes. Even though I

1075
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:11,920
can to the bushes, i can't see really what's in

1076
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:16,960
the bushes ten feet in front of me. Yeah, you know,

1077
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:26,000
and we've got at least three things that are big

1078
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:30,000
that are in that valley with us that aren't showing themselves,

1079
01:08:30,239 --> 01:08:32,520
but are talking with each other.

1080
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:35,640
Speaker 2: I would assume that they would be aware that you

1081
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:36,399
guys are there.

1082
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:39,560
Speaker 1: Oh I'm one hundred percent convinced.

1083
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:44,600
Speaker 2: So your training, both of yours training would dictate that

1084
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:46,880
this is not a good situation.

1085
01:08:48,199 --> 01:08:50,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're on the low ground. They've got the high

1086
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:54,079
ground on both sides of us. There's three of them,

1087
01:08:54,159 --> 01:08:58,720
there's two of us. They clearly can move faster than

1088
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:06,439
we can, and have proven that already, mostly moving fairly silently,

1089
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:12,800
but at a couple of spots they started well, and

1090
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:20,199
this is when they started making the noise. No no hollering, no, no,

1091
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:25,760
nothing like that. No verbalization towards us at all. I

1092
01:09:26,399 --> 01:09:29,960
swear they were talking to each other. But they would

1093
01:09:30,119 --> 01:09:37,319
charge through the bushes and and it was so fast,

1094
01:09:37,399 --> 01:09:40,239
and they wouldn't they weren't coming towards us. Now a

1095
01:09:40,279 --> 01:09:44,079
barrel do a false charge or even charge right at you.

1096
01:09:45,159 --> 01:09:47,359
I mean, but they'll do a false charge where they

1097
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:52,000
charge at it is scaria, you know, and then they

1098
01:09:52,119 --> 01:09:54,960
back off to see what you're going to do. But

1099
01:09:55,079 --> 01:09:59,039
these things weren't doing that. They were charging in flanking

1100
01:09:59,159 --> 01:10:04,399
moves like they were like they were maneuvering on us,

1101
01:10:05,079 --> 01:10:08,560
flanking us and like, and it was like they were

1102
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:11,520
trying to prove to us. Now we hit each had rifles,

1103
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:15,960
we were armed. And I was carrying a forty five

1104
01:10:16,039 --> 01:10:19,920
cold pistol with plus p's and my buddy was carrying

1105
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:23,920
his forty five magnum or forty four magnum, you know,

1106
01:10:24,159 --> 01:10:29,359
and rifles, and he's carrying a scope rifle of I

1107
01:10:29,359 --> 01:10:32,399
don't remember what it was, probably a Remington seven hundred.

1108
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:35,279
He's into Remington's. Now. I was carrying an old Winchester

1109
01:10:35,399 --> 01:10:42,000
ninety four thirty thirty caliber, and so I mean, we've

1110
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:47,119
got we're armed. And so that's kind of the thing

1111
01:10:47,159 --> 01:10:50,000
that I was looking at is that I was wondering

1112
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:52,920
if they thought we were up there hunting them, or

1113
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:55,640
if we were up there hunting or what. But they

1114
01:10:55,640 --> 01:11:03,079
were they I'm one hundred percent percent convinced that Sasquatch

1115
01:11:03,399 --> 01:11:08,640
they're they're intelligent. They're not just some dumb animal. Right,

1116
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:11,800
So they they know we're armed, they know what we're

1117
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:15,039
capable of. They all know, you know, they've been around

1118
01:11:15,119 --> 01:11:18,239
people and seen enough. They all know. So they're not

1119
01:11:18,359 --> 01:11:20,800
gonna they're not going to show themselves. They're not going

1120
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:23,079
to charge in. They're not going to do something where

1121
01:11:23,079 --> 01:11:24,880
they can get close enough, but they're going to do

1122
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:27,680
whatever they could do intimidate us and chase us out

1123
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:29,560
of that valley. And boy, I'll tell you what they

1124
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:33,920
sure did. They sure did, and they followed us all

1125
01:11:34,039 --> 01:11:36,800
the way we went. We were coming back out of

1126
01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:42,960
that valley and going down and moved down. We went back,

1127
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:45,640
got our packs everything, and it just it's it just

1128
01:11:45,760 --> 01:11:48,359
killed me because my buddy had a rifle of scope

1129
01:11:48,359 --> 01:11:51,640
on it, and I don't I don't know hunters hunting,

1130
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:54,960
I don't care what you do. It's just not it's

1131
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:56,880
not the thing to go scope in the woods with

1132
01:11:56,920 --> 01:12:01,119
a rifle. So he did it very limited, you know.

1133
01:12:01,359 --> 01:12:04,560
And we didn't want to be pointing our guns at them,

1134
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:09,319
our rifles at them, you know, because I figured if

1135
01:12:09,359 --> 01:12:11,439
it was a big foot, they knew well, we knew

1136
01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:13,640
it was bigfoot. I mean it was. We were well

1137
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:18,039
sold into that, but we didn't want them to perceive

1138
01:12:18,279 --> 01:12:22,319
that we were trying to get them, you know what

1139
01:12:22,359 --> 01:12:24,720
I mean. I mean, we'd already made it clear that

1140
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:28,239
we were leaving, but I didn't have a pair of

1141
01:12:28,279 --> 01:12:33,199
monoculars with me, and I always take monoculars with me, always, always, always,

1142
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:35,520
and I didn't have them. I didn't even have them

1143
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:38,399
in my pack. We just brought minimal because we were

1144
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:40,800
moving so deep, five miles up into the air, and

1145
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:43,600
then we figured we were going to go another couple miles.

1146
01:12:44,119 --> 01:12:47,840
If we, you know, actually scored a good a good dear,

1147
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:50,520
then you know we were going to have to pack

1148
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:52,119
it out. We were going to have to pack it

1149
01:12:52,159 --> 01:12:53,640
out a long way, so we were going to have

1150
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:56,840
to have to gut and quarter and pro you know,

1151
01:12:57,319 --> 01:12:59,720
and everything to pack it out. Split it up between

1152
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:01,319
the two of us, because I'm not going to sled

1153
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:04,640
drag something that far. And you couldn't through all that anyway,

1154
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:08,640
So we minimalize the gear that we were taking and

1155
01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:11,319
I and I still get to this day, I keep

1156
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:18,960
kicking myself for not having my binoculars. But anyway, we start,

1157
01:13:19,119 --> 01:13:22,319
we start moving out, we're moving down. He's scanned a

1158
01:13:22,319 --> 01:13:24,880
couple of times with his scope. I've been watching stuff.

1159
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:27,239
We've gotten to a couple of spots where we've moved

1160
01:13:27,279 --> 01:13:30,600
off from the creek so that we could sit down

1161
01:13:31,159 --> 01:13:35,119
and just listen and see if we could see anything.

1162
01:13:35,279 --> 01:13:39,560
And and it was pretty apparent they were still around us.

1163
01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:46,159
You'd hear a branch snap, you'd hear heavy thumping noises,

1164
01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:48,920
you know how you know how bear does that where

1165
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:53,800
they bounce, and they bounced their front seat onto the stomp. Okay,

1166
01:13:54,239 --> 01:13:58,960
it was like that, but it wasn't exactly that noise,

1167
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:03,239
you know, but it sounded like it really sounded to

1168
01:14:03,239 --> 01:14:06,359
me a lot like that, like something was stomping to

1169
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:08,640
let us know, hey, we're still here.

1170
01:14:09,760 --> 01:14:12,399
Speaker 2: Like something fleshy hitting the ground hard.

1171
01:14:13,079 --> 01:14:15,800
Speaker 1: Something fleshy hitting the ground hard, like something like they're

1172
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:23,560
stomping a foot, you know. But so we keep moving

1173
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:26,640
and we're going down, and we we've already we've well

1174
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:30,600
resigned ourselves so that we're being tracked by sasquatch and

1175
01:14:31,359 --> 01:14:34,840
I'm and moving down, but we still wanted to see

1176
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:36,600
if we could get a look at anything, and we

1177
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:41,279
jump over this little uh. There were a couple of

1178
01:14:41,319 --> 01:14:43,520
them coming up, but this one was as we came

1179
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:46,079
up the river, but this one was the best. It's

1180
01:14:46,359 --> 01:14:48,600
like a logjam. You get all these logs across and

1181
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:51,359
it kind of plugs it up, almost like a beaver dam,

1182
01:14:51,880 --> 01:14:55,119
and then over the years the silt fills in behind it,

1183
01:14:55,199 --> 01:14:58,319
so it raises it up. So it's like you're walking

1184
01:14:58,399 --> 01:15:00,399
in the river bed and you come to the and

1185
01:15:00,399 --> 01:15:05,079
then you can drop down a couple feet. Yeah, like

1186
01:15:05,119 --> 01:15:08,520
a little waterfall over. Well, this one was about four

1187
01:15:09,119 --> 01:15:13,119
to five feet tall, and so we kept talking about

1188
01:15:13,119 --> 01:15:14,920
that and that when we got there, we were going

1189
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:17,079
to drop over that and we were going to take

1190
01:15:17,119 --> 01:15:21,039
off into different directions, just straight out of the sides

1191
01:15:21,119 --> 01:15:25,119
and see if we could see anything, you know, flush

1192
01:15:25,159 --> 01:15:27,159
something up, if we could charge up the side and

1193
01:15:27,199 --> 01:15:33,439
see anything. And uh, this always cracks me up. So

1194
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:37,720
my buddy he goes, he goes, well, I'll go up

1195
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:40,119
to the west, you go up to the east. That

1196
01:15:40,159 --> 01:15:42,159
always cracked me up because the west side was the

1197
01:15:42,199 --> 01:15:46,159
side that had one on it, and the east side

1198
01:15:46,159 --> 01:15:47,199
of the valley had two.

1199
01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:49,840
Speaker 2: Go get the lawn chairs.

1200
01:15:50,239 --> 01:15:52,720
Speaker 1: And so I was like, oh yeah, send me into

1201
01:15:52,760 --> 01:15:55,279
the two. All right, Well I was. I was up

1202
01:15:55,319 --> 01:15:57,760
for it anyway. So we did. We did the charge,

1203
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:00,560
and you could hear them. You could hear them. They

1204
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:05,840
took off through the woods. Uh, and the there was

1205
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:08,359
one on each side of me when I went up.

1206
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:10,840
When I went up, they went through the woods and

1207
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:13,359
one and they went at an angle to where I

1208
01:16:13,479 --> 01:16:18,920
was at, down towards the river on each side, uh,

1209
01:16:19,119 --> 01:16:22,119
down towards the river, and and so then I started

1210
01:16:22,119 --> 01:16:24,079
getting nervous because I was thinking, they're going to cut

1211
01:16:24,119 --> 01:16:24,479
me off.

1212
01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:27,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the one way in and out.

1213
01:16:28,279 --> 01:16:30,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're going to cut me off from the river.

1214
01:16:31,119 --> 01:16:36,760
And and so I immediately turned around and headed back down.

1215
01:16:37,279 --> 01:16:40,760
But I headed back down at an angle towards the

1216
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:44,520
one that was down river from me, so that I

1217
01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:46,800
wasn't going to go straight back to where I came from.

1218
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:51,840
I went down I paralleled that path down to the river,

1219
01:16:52,479 --> 01:16:55,079
so that if something happened, I was going to be

1220
01:16:55,439 --> 01:17:00,000
up against one, not having both of them, yes, and

1221
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:02,800
and uh so I get back down to the river,

1222
01:17:03,319 --> 01:17:05,520
and when I get back down by the river, everything's

1223
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:08,520
dead quiet. My buddy come down the river and he's like,

1224
01:17:09,199 --> 01:17:12,600
you know, he he had seen that I'd come back

1225
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:15,039
down to the river, you know, heard everything going on.

1226
01:17:15,199 --> 01:17:19,840
And I'm haulering at him at this point everything and uh,

1227
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:23,199
I was just like, no, no, I'm done. I'm not

1228
01:17:23,279 --> 01:17:27,119
coming out of the river again. I'm not coming out

1229
01:17:27,159 --> 01:17:29,079
of the river again. I'm staying in the river all

1230
01:17:29,119 --> 01:17:33,359
the way to the jeep. And that's what we did.

1231
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:38,279
And they followed us all the way peril but you know,

1232
01:17:38,520 --> 01:17:41,720
just uh parallel this all the way all the way

1233
01:17:41,720 --> 01:17:44,840
back to the jeep, all the way back to the jeep,

1234
01:17:45,039 --> 01:17:50,600
and like five you know, is a good five miles

1235
01:17:51,159 --> 01:17:53,159
and they were with us the whole way back to

1236
01:17:53,159 --> 01:17:55,560
the jeep. And when when we were at the jeep,

1237
01:17:56,680 --> 01:18:00,199
it was like everything up there and you know it's

1238
01:18:00,399 --> 01:18:04,199
got you got cracket's, you know, all that stuff up

1239
01:18:04,199 --> 01:18:06,439
in the woods. There's always some kind of bird noise something.

1240
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:09,960
And this was and this was getting to be late afternoon,

1241
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:15,000
it wasn't getting dark yet, but it was dead quiet.

1242
01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:19,119
I mean it was dead quiet. There was no there

1243
01:18:19,119 --> 01:18:24,760
were no bird noises, there were no nothing, nothing. It

1244
01:18:24,880 --> 01:18:28,039
was just whatever little bit of sound we were making

1245
01:18:28,039 --> 01:18:29,800
and a little bit of breeze it was going through

1246
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:36,319
the woods and everything was just dead quiet, dead quiet.

1247
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:40,000
And yeah, I mean after we got back to the jeep,

1248
01:18:40,119 --> 01:18:44,520
never heard another noise, never heard nothing, nothing, nothing at all.

1249
01:18:44,600 --> 01:18:46,199
I'll tell you what, that's the last time I ever

1250
01:18:46,239 --> 01:18:48,920
went up there. If those things wanted to get us,

1251
01:18:49,239 --> 01:18:55,640
I am one hundred percent convinced, one hundred percent convinced

1252
01:18:55,640 --> 01:18:57,439
that they would have gotten us if they wanted to.

1253
01:18:57,600 --> 01:19:02,359
One hundred percent. I have zero, no doubt whatsoever, zero none,

1254
01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:06,920
no doubt. Zero. It was to drive us out of

1255
01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:09,479
there and to make sure that we didn't come back.

1256
01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:12,319
And I'll tell you what, I ain't going back.

1257
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:16,359
Speaker 2: Was there a certain point something that triggered the decision

1258
01:19:16,399 --> 01:19:18,840
to leave the area for you guys.

1259
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:25,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, they hearing them talking and them moving around us

1260
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:29,640
when we were up there. It was the it was

1261
01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:34,640
the fact that it was. It was how fast they

1262
01:19:34,640 --> 01:19:39,279
were moving and the fact that they were moving around

1263
01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:45,800
us yet you know, it's like it's like I felt

1264
01:19:45,800 --> 01:19:48,479
like the dog with the wolf, the sheep dog and

1265
01:19:48,479 --> 01:19:53,279
the wolves circling around me. Yeah, you know, I mean

1266
01:19:53,319 --> 01:19:56,159
that was that was the feeling and the fact that

1267
01:19:56,239 --> 01:19:59,279
we couldn't figure out at that time, you know, at

1268
01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:03,279
couldn't figure out what was going on. But it was

1269
01:20:03,399 --> 01:20:07,920
it was the fact that we heard them talking, heard

1270
01:20:07,960 --> 01:20:13,359
them talking before they ever made any noises, that really

1271
01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:18,560
exposed the positions that they were in. You know.

1272
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:24,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that would implay planning, yeah, oh yeah,

1273
01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:26,319
oh yeah, and animals don't do that.

1274
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:31,479
Speaker 1: Yeah no, but these things, these things did absolutely, one

1275
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:36,680
hundred percent. No, absolutely one hundred percent planned their whole

1276
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:41,439
thing and did a very well execution of it and

1277
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:49,600
the amount of movement and noise and everything that they made.

1278
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:58,079
And I never saw one. I never saw it. That's

1279
01:20:58,199 --> 01:21:03,640
that's what gets me. I never saw it. I've I've

1280
01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:07,399
never I just and that's that's what gets me. It's like,

1281
01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:12,680
you know, it's like they are. It's so they can

1282
01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:18,159
be so overt with all the noise and commotion and

1283
01:21:18,399 --> 01:21:24,520
everything without exposing themselves to where you can see them. Yeah,

1284
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:32,279
it's uh, it's the most elusive. Just crazy. Man, I'm shivering.

1285
01:21:32,319 --> 01:21:36,920
I got goosebumps. It's uh man, it was nuts. It

1286
01:21:36,960 --> 01:21:41,159
was just nuts. I I don't care, you know. It's

1287
01:21:41,239 --> 01:21:49,239
like I think, I'm I'm I'm convinced with oh, rifles, pistols,

1288
01:21:49,279 --> 01:21:53,399
it don't matter, it don't matter what we had. It

1289
01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:54,560
just it doesn't matter.

1290
01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:56,880
Speaker 2: I mean, if you can't see it, you can't shoot it.

1291
01:21:58,239 --> 01:22:01,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. But I mean I think I think they could have.

1292
01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:05,960
They could have maneuvered on us and gotten one of us.

1293
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:10,479
A couple of times when we were separated, they could

1294
01:22:10,479 --> 01:22:12,319
have gotten one of us. Hell, they could have maneuvered

1295
01:22:12,359 --> 01:22:15,279
on on the two of us together. I think and

1296
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:19,039
and gotten us when we were together without us being

1297
01:22:19,079 --> 01:22:21,760
able to I don't know. Maybe we might have shot one,

1298
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:22,800
but I don't. I don't know.

1299
01:22:23,199 --> 01:22:26,680
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously you don't have to go too far

1300
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:30,600
into this, but with your military background and training and everything,

1301
01:22:31,159 --> 01:22:33,760
you know, you mentioned some of the things that you

1302
01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:39,399
are involved in, is there anything in your training or

1303
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:44,279
anything that you faced in adversaries that you can compare

1304
01:22:44,319 --> 01:22:46,439
like their movements and strategy to.

1305
01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:54,119
Speaker 1: Nothing, well, their strategies are I mean, as far as

1306
01:22:54,159 --> 01:22:59,720
the maneuvering and being able to being able to get

1307
01:22:59,760 --> 01:23:02,640
a goals on us and everything, I can equate that

1308
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:06,600
to stuff that we did maneuvering, combat maneuvering and stuff

1309
01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:12,399
that way. But as far as staying hidden and all

1310
01:23:12,439 --> 01:23:15,319
of that, I mean, it's it was like going up

1311
01:23:15,720 --> 01:23:19,239
against one of the most skilled opponents that I would

1312
01:23:19,239 --> 01:23:22,800
have ever faced in any situation that way at all, whatsoever.

1313
01:23:23,399 --> 01:23:26,600
I mean, if it would have been an armed conflict,

1314
01:23:27,119 --> 01:23:29,359
I wouldn't have come out of that up against whatever

1315
01:23:29,399 --> 01:23:34,039
that was. I never saw them, and they clearly knew

1316
01:23:34,079 --> 01:23:37,920
where we were every second, and I never saw them.

1317
01:23:38,520 --> 01:23:40,439
Neither one of us ever saw one.

1318
01:23:40,800 --> 01:23:43,239
Speaker 2: What do you equate that to just their ability to

1319
01:23:43,319 --> 01:23:47,279
blend in or just their speed. How do you think

1320
01:23:47,359 --> 01:23:50,680
they can pull that off? Because I've been in situations

1321
01:23:50,720 --> 01:23:56,079
myself where there would be There was this one situation

1322
01:23:56,119 --> 01:23:58,760
in particular down in Texas as a matter of fact,

1323
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:02,279
where we're in a very remote area and we're on

1324
01:24:02,319 --> 01:24:06,359
this old oil road is what they are called. And

1325
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:10,079
on one side of the road is some sort of

1326
01:24:10,359 --> 01:24:15,720
like down in Texas, there'll be these expanses of thousands

1327
01:24:15,720 --> 01:24:19,239
of acres where they have like exotic game hunting and

1328
01:24:19,319 --> 01:24:22,159
deer hunting and stuff, and they build these huge perimeter

1329
01:24:22,279 --> 01:24:25,520
fences around where the game can't get out. And so

1330
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:28,520
that's on one side of this. On the other side

1331
01:24:28,600 --> 01:24:33,439
is just woods, thick woods, and there was something man

1332
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:38,600
that this thing it sounded like a bull coming through

1333
01:24:38,600 --> 01:24:44,479
the woods, an elephant, huge, just crashing, breaking limbs, tearing

1334
01:24:44,520 --> 01:24:49,279
towards us, and it's coming directly at us. There's a

1335
01:24:49,399 --> 01:24:53,479
large cedar tree between the edge of the road where

1336
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:56,800
we're at and there's maybe five or six of us there,

1337
01:24:57,600 --> 01:25:01,159
and this thing's on the opposite side of the cedar tree,

1338
01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:04,560
and it charges right up to the opposite side of

1339
01:25:04,600 --> 01:25:08,600
that cedar tree. This cedar tree might have been eight

1340
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:13,560
feet in diameter. We kind of form a semicircle around it,

1341
01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:16,079
start moving around as much as we could on the edges,

1342
01:25:16,119 --> 01:25:20,199
trying to see this thing. We've got flashlights on and everything. Nothing,

1343
01:25:20,359 --> 01:25:25,680
couldn't see a single thing, never heard anything walk off. Yeah,

1344
01:25:25,720 --> 01:25:28,239
and it's just like, how does something that big just

1345
01:25:28,520 --> 01:25:30,520
move around like that, just effortlessly.

1346
01:25:31,640 --> 01:25:34,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I've watched cougars walk behind a tree and

1347
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:39,439
never come out, disappear. They just walk behind a tree

1348
01:25:39,439 --> 01:25:45,399
and they're gone. Yeah, but something that big like that, Yeah, yeah, no, no,

1349
01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:47,000
I hundred percent believe that.

1350
01:25:48,159 --> 01:25:53,039
Speaker 2: And then the talking also, I only experienced that one time.

1351
01:25:53,319 --> 01:25:55,800
I think it was a bigfoot. I don't know. I

1352
01:25:55,840 --> 01:26:00,760
never saw anything, but I heard two individuals talking. Couldn't

1353
01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:03,600
make out anything they were saying. I would have to

1354
01:26:03,640 --> 01:26:08,279
assume they know that you can hear them. Yeah, and

1355
01:26:08,319 --> 01:26:11,159
they just don't care, and they're just talking to one another.

1356
01:26:11,920 --> 01:26:15,560
And just to be completely honest, I mean, that situation

1357
01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:18,680
to me sounds terrifying. I've heard a lot of bigfoot stories,

1358
01:26:19,720 --> 01:26:22,520
but that one is one that I would personally have

1359
01:26:22,640 --> 01:26:25,000
worried about if I were in your scenario for sure.

1360
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:32,079
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I'm the smart ass to the end,

1361
01:26:34,119 --> 01:26:37,840
and I've been I've been shot at, mortars coming in

1362
01:26:37,920 --> 01:26:39,640
on me, all that kind of stuff. And one of

1363
01:26:39,680 --> 01:26:43,319
the things and this is, yeah, I had I had

1364
01:26:43,399 --> 01:26:47,279
a one hundred and twenty milimeter mortar hit right behind me,

1365
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:51,359
and I got wounded from it hit, but it was

1366
01:26:51,399 --> 01:26:56,600
far enough away. My best took everything. Luckily. All the

1367
01:26:56,640 --> 01:26:59,680
shrapnel that flew hit from my waist up and I've

1368
01:26:59,680 --> 01:27:02,000
got a he could chunk of shrapnel that I pulled

1369
01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:05,199
out of my vest that I kept. But it went

1370
01:27:05,279 --> 01:27:09,119
off and I was directly between it and a buddy

1371
01:27:09,159 --> 01:27:15,159
of mine. And when that hit, all this dust comes flying,

1372
01:27:15,560 --> 01:27:17,920
and it made like this car like you'd see in

1373
01:27:17,960 --> 01:27:22,239
the cartoons. It made like this cartoon cut out where

1374
01:27:22,279 --> 01:27:26,319
I'm looking through a tunnel of dust and it's perfectly

1375
01:27:26,399 --> 01:27:29,640
clean between me and my buddy. And I looked at

1376
01:27:29,720 --> 01:27:33,439
him and I said, well, you don't see that every day,

1377
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:44,479
you know. You know, I could not at any point

1378
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:49,239
of this entire situation, I couldn't. I couldn't. I there

1379
01:27:49,319 --> 01:27:54,479
was no smart ass in me at all, whatsoever. It was.

1380
01:27:55,640 --> 01:28:00,720
It was so that whole situation once it led up

1381
01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:04,199
to the intensity was so intense. I couldn't muster up

1382
01:28:05,039 --> 01:28:09,279
a single comment. And that's that was always my thing

1383
01:28:09,319 --> 01:28:11,880
with with my guys when we were in any kind

1384
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:15,239
of situation, was always I kind of do that to

1385
01:28:15,359 --> 01:28:19,640
break tension in it, you know. I mean, and that

1386
01:28:19,840 --> 01:28:21,880
was kind of our thing in the military, that picking

1387
01:28:21,920 --> 01:28:23,760
on each other and stuff all the time. It's all

1388
01:28:23,800 --> 01:28:27,439
to it's all to break the tension of the situation, right,

1389
01:28:27,600 --> 01:28:30,840
to get every focused back onto Okay, this is what

1390
01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:33,520
we got to do. This is what's going on, you know,

1391
01:28:33,640 --> 01:28:37,960
But to break that stress of the situation. And I couldn't.

1392
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:40,920
I couldn't. I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it.

1393
01:28:41,039 --> 01:28:44,000
I was I was so stressed that whole time.

1394
01:28:45,520 --> 01:28:48,960
Speaker 2: I mean, five miles is a long way, yeah, and

1395
01:28:49,079 --> 01:28:53,000
plenty of time, yeah, to figure things out and get

1396
01:28:53,439 --> 01:28:58,680
a glimpse of something, you know, and kind of figure

1397
01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:00,920
out a way to take control of the situation. And

1398
01:29:01,279 --> 01:29:05,600
it sounds like the emotions you were experiencing was just

1399
01:29:05,760 --> 01:29:09,079
not being in control completely at the mercy of whatever

1400
01:29:09,119 --> 01:29:09,600
they wanted.

1401
01:29:10,319 --> 01:29:13,079
Speaker 1: Yep. Man, it was so crazy.

1402
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:15,760
Speaker 2: I mean, I've heard lots of stories about you know,

1403
01:29:15,840 --> 01:29:18,279
people being paralleled in the woods. You know, I've had

1404
01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:20,720
I have a good friend of mine that's been on

1405
01:29:20,760 --> 01:29:24,159
the podcast that was paralleled out of the woods for

1406
01:29:24,239 --> 01:29:28,039
a ways. And usually it's like, I mean, I may

1407
01:29:28,079 --> 01:29:30,479
have heard a couple of stories about a mile or

1408
01:29:30,560 --> 01:29:34,479
two miles, and it's typically just one other individual and

1409
01:29:34,479 --> 01:29:38,399
it's just doing the whole you know, paralleling with the footsteps,

1410
01:29:38,399 --> 01:29:41,239
not making any vocalizations. They take a step and they

1411
01:29:41,239 --> 01:29:43,640
hear another step before it stops, that sort of thing.

1412
01:29:44,520 --> 01:29:48,359
But yeah, but this is different, This is way different.

1413
01:29:48,760 --> 01:29:54,319
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it was. Uh, it was one of those

1414
01:29:54,840 --> 01:29:56,720
I mean, I've been in a couple of tight spots,

1415
01:29:58,520 --> 01:30:04,600
but it was like this was like, man, it was intense.

1416
01:30:05,359 --> 01:30:10,319
It was it was I'm one hundred percent convinced. I

1417
01:30:10,680 --> 01:30:15,680
am one hundred percent convinced that if they wanted to

1418
01:30:15,720 --> 01:30:17,760
stop us from getting out of there, we were done.

1419
01:30:18,560 --> 01:30:22,000
That was all there was to it. That was all

1420
01:30:22,039 --> 01:30:24,600
there was to it, and that was that was the

1421
01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:28,239
only thing. As we got down the when we got

1422
01:30:28,279 --> 01:30:32,199
to being within about a mile of the jeep, was

1423
01:30:32,279 --> 01:30:35,920
when I was feeling like they were gonna let us

1424
01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:39,720
get to the jeep and get out of there. Is

1425
01:30:39,760 --> 01:30:43,520
that That's when I when I really had started to

1426
01:30:43,600 --> 01:30:45,600
have the feeling that they were gonna let us get

1427
01:30:45,600 --> 01:30:48,039
out of there, that all they wanted to do was

1428
01:30:48,079 --> 01:30:52,000
get us out of there and to make sure that

1429
01:30:52,039 --> 01:30:55,840
they caused enough that maybe we would never come back,

1430
01:30:57,760 --> 01:30:59,520
you know. And boy, I'll tell you what, I ain't

1431
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:03,199
ever going back up there. You can't. I'll tell you

1432
01:31:03,239 --> 01:31:03,760
where it's at.

1433
01:31:05,279 --> 01:31:09,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'll leave that one alone. Yeah, did

1434
01:31:09,600 --> 01:31:13,479
your buddy have any problems coming to the realization that

1435
01:31:13,920 --> 01:31:14,680
Bigfoot's real?

1436
01:31:15,800 --> 01:31:18,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, he won't talk about it period to this day.

1437
01:31:18,479 --> 01:31:22,039
He won't talk about that. And uh, yeah, he totally

1438
01:31:22,199 --> 01:31:24,520
swore me to secrecy on the thing because he was

1439
01:31:24,520 --> 01:31:27,319
still he was still in and he was still running

1440
01:31:27,399 --> 01:31:30,680
missions and doing stuff, you know, and he didn't want

1441
01:31:30,720 --> 01:31:33,960
that stigma of anything getting back to anybody. And then,

1442
01:31:34,079 --> 01:31:37,319
you know, he's a big dude. He's a he's a

1443
01:31:37,359 --> 01:31:43,319
big dude, and he's you know, over over six feet tall,

1444
01:31:46,159 --> 01:31:49,880
very broad shouldered, very big dude. And he didn't want

1445
01:31:49,960 --> 01:31:55,680
the oh yeah, here comes the bigfoot hunter, you know. Yeah,

1446
01:31:56,039 --> 01:31:59,239
you know, I mean he didn't want any of that stigma,

1447
01:31:59,399 --> 01:32:03,079
stigma having to do with it. He won't he won't nothing,

1448
01:32:03,279 --> 01:32:06,800
not a word to this day, won't nothing nothing.

1449
01:32:08,439 --> 01:32:10,760
Speaker 2: I mean, everybody has to, you know, cope in their

1450
01:32:10,800 --> 01:32:15,640
own way. And like I certainly get it that that

1451
01:32:15,680 --> 01:32:19,560
would have been a terrifying scenario for anybody, let alone

1452
01:32:19,840 --> 01:32:24,079
people that were trained and aware enough to actually know

1453
01:32:24,119 --> 01:32:24,800
what was going on.

1454
01:32:26,279 --> 01:32:28,880
Speaker 1: And and he's the one that he's the one that

1455
01:32:28,920 --> 01:32:31,600
caught what was going on first, you know, I don't know.

1456
01:32:31,880 --> 01:32:34,359
Maybe it's because his head st up high enough that

1457
01:32:34,399 --> 01:32:38,239
he could hear things that I couldn't a lot, bigger,

1458
01:32:38,319 --> 01:32:38,960
lot taller.

1459
01:32:40,279 --> 01:32:44,479
Speaker 2: I think it's also kind of important to mention, at

1460
01:32:44,560 --> 01:32:49,000
least in fairness, that I agree with you if they

1461
01:32:49,039 --> 01:32:51,560
didn't want you to leave, you weren't going to leave,

1462
01:32:52,359 --> 01:32:53,960
but they did let you leave.

1463
01:32:54,880 --> 01:33:01,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, which which after all of that, I'm pretty

1464
01:33:01,960 --> 01:33:07,399
convinced was their intention the whole time was just to

1465
01:33:07,520 --> 01:33:11,199
drive us out of there. But when it was going

1466
01:33:11,279 --> 01:33:14,399
on at first, when we were all the way up

1467
01:33:14,439 --> 01:33:17,479
in there, I didn't have that feeling at all, not

1468
01:33:17,640 --> 01:33:24,439
at all. It was so I thought I was dinner,

1469
01:33:24,840 --> 01:33:25,119
you know.

1470
01:33:26,960 --> 01:33:29,079
Speaker 2: For my interesting you didn't even tell your wife about this?

1471
01:33:30,279 --> 01:33:32,680
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, we didn't tell anybody about it. For

1472
01:33:32,800 --> 01:33:40,960
years years. Yeah, my wife just recently found out. And

1473
01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:44,960
then she's like, she was kind of like, oh, well,

1474
01:33:45,239 --> 01:33:47,119
a lot of this makes a lot of sense now

1475
01:33:47,159 --> 01:33:51,159
looking back on things and looking back on your actions

1476
01:33:51,239 --> 01:33:55,680
and your lack of going to places that you used

1477
01:33:55,680 --> 01:33:59,159
to go fishing, and lack of going to you know,

1478
01:33:59,279 --> 01:34:03,079
this spot over here and not being out in the

1479
01:34:03,159 --> 01:34:07,640
woods so deep by yourself. And yeah, and then then

1480
01:34:07,680 --> 01:34:12,000
she was teasing me last night too because uh we

1481
01:34:12,079 --> 01:34:15,600
listened to uh who was it. Oh, it was Sarah's

1482
01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:19,319
one of Sarah's new newest videos and that she put out.

1483
01:34:19,359 --> 01:34:20,960
There was a guy on there talking about a bunch

1484
01:34:20,960 --> 01:34:23,560
of stuff and bigfoot experiences and he's had a lot

1485
01:34:23,600 --> 01:34:31,760
of them, uh says sasquatch, and uh he's a bigfoot researcher.

1486
01:34:31,760 --> 01:34:35,079
And he was talking about cameras and game cameras and

1487
01:34:35,119 --> 01:34:39,479
stuff and all of this, and my wife goes, oh, oh,

1488
01:34:39,520 --> 01:34:42,960
I get it. I get it. So that's why, uh,

1489
01:34:43,119 --> 01:34:46,600
that's why you put the motion sensor lights up and

1490
01:34:46,760 --> 01:34:50,159
why uh you've got the cameras up and all of

1491
01:34:50,199 --> 01:34:53,520
that stuff. She's like, yeah, yeah, I get it. Keep

1492
01:34:53,560 --> 01:34:54,479
them away from the house.

1493
01:34:54,800 --> 01:34:57,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well we call him booger lights out here,

1494
01:34:59,279 --> 01:35:01,119
booger lights. Yeah.

1495
01:35:01,159 --> 01:35:04,680
Speaker 1: But that's another thing too that that gets me is

1496
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:07,439
a lot of people are like, oh, you know, there's

1497
01:35:07,760 --> 01:35:10,239
there's great I'm gonna switch to a lighter side. I

1498
01:35:10,359 --> 01:35:13,960
want to de stress from that story and be kind

1499
01:35:13,960 --> 01:35:17,520
of done with that. Yeah, because that really gets me

1500
01:35:17,880 --> 01:35:23,680
talking about that. It's like, man, but uh, talking about

1501
01:35:23,680 --> 01:35:25,920
the cameras and stuff, a lot of people do a

1502
01:35:25,920 --> 01:35:30,880
lot of a lot of bigfoot stuff and and uh,

1503
01:35:30,960 --> 01:35:33,720
I'm one hundred percent convinced they see in for red light.

1504
01:35:34,760 --> 01:35:37,319
I have no doubt. And that's the thing with the

1505
01:35:37,359 --> 01:35:40,399
game cameras, the motion lights, the all that kind of

1506
01:35:40,399 --> 01:35:44,640
stuff is they're all triggered with ir. It's like people,

1507
01:35:44,760 --> 01:35:48,119
people don't realize you you carry your cell phone in

1508
01:35:48,199 --> 01:35:51,800
your pocket and if you've got if you've got some

1509
01:35:51,920 --> 01:35:54,880
kind of a some kind of a starlight vision scope

1510
01:35:54,960 --> 01:35:57,960
or something, Uh, take your cell phone out at night

1511
01:35:58,199 --> 01:36:01,840
and set it someplace and look through your starlight scope

1512
01:36:01,880 --> 01:36:05,640
at it, because it'll if you've got if you've got

1513
01:36:05,640 --> 01:36:14,720
a smartphone, almost every smartphone I know, Samsung iPhones, there's

1514
01:36:14,760 --> 01:36:18,640
a there's a bunch of them. They they're flashlight does

1515
01:36:18,680 --> 01:36:22,960
an infrared strobe about every one to three seconds, depending

1516
01:36:22,960 --> 01:36:26,800
on the brand. So wherever you're going with your cell

1517
01:36:26,840 --> 01:36:31,199
phone in your pocket, you're putting off an infrared strobe.

1518
01:36:31,560 --> 01:36:34,720
So I think with a lot of this modern technology

1519
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:39,920
trail cams, they're triggered by infrared. You know, all all

1520
01:36:39,960 --> 01:36:43,239
of this stuff that uses infrared, they can see it.

1521
01:36:43,439 --> 01:36:47,319
And I think, I'm I'm I'm convinced they can because

1522
01:36:47,560 --> 01:36:52,039
I've I've I've hunted coyotes and stuff at night and

1523
01:36:52,319 --> 01:36:56,680
lots of varmint animals and stuff, and so I use

1524
01:36:56,840 --> 01:37:02,000
night vision and an IR laser for hunting varments. And

1525
01:37:02,039 --> 01:37:06,079
so I was sitting in a spot one time, sitting there,

1526
01:37:06,159 --> 01:37:08,359
and I'm watching this owl on this tree branch and

1527
01:37:08,439 --> 01:37:12,319
he was probably fifteen maybe twenty feet away from me,

1528
01:37:12,359 --> 01:37:15,640
and I'm watching him, uh with my with the set

1529
01:37:15,800 --> 01:37:21,199
with a PVS fourteen military grade Gen three night vision

1530
01:37:21,640 --> 01:37:25,439
and I'm watching him, and I thought, I'm going to

1531
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:29,000
turn on that illuminator, and so I turned on the

1532
01:37:29,039 --> 01:37:33,399
infrared illuminator on it, you know, which boosts your vision.

1533
01:37:33,479 --> 01:37:35,960
It's like if youre's someplace that has like zero light,

1534
01:37:36,039 --> 01:37:37,760
you can turn on the illuminator and it gives an

1535
01:37:37,800 --> 01:37:41,279
infrared light off right, So I and as soon as

1536
01:37:41,319 --> 01:37:44,119
I clicked that on, he spun his head around and

1537
01:37:44,159 --> 01:37:49,760
looked right straight at me, and I thought, wow, I wonder,

1538
01:37:50,520 --> 01:37:54,399
I wonder if that was a coincident, if coincidence or something,

1539
01:37:54,399 --> 01:37:57,239
if he heard the click or something, you know, but

1540
01:37:57,319 --> 01:37:59,680
I'd been made that he would have. So I shut

1541
01:37:59,720 --> 01:38:02,359
it off, and he kind of goes back to looking

1542
01:38:02,359 --> 01:38:05,199
around and looking out across the field, you know, looking

1543
01:38:05,239 --> 01:38:07,039
back out and the you know, in the edge of

1544
01:38:07,039 --> 01:38:09,399
the woodlines, and looking around and looking around. And I

1545
01:38:09,439 --> 01:38:11,680
clicked it back on again. He spun his head back

1546
01:38:11,680 --> 01:38:15,880
around instantly and looked at me, and I turned it off.

1547
01:38:16,399 --> 01:38:18,319
I sat there and the third the third time I

1548
01:38:18,359 --> 01:38:20,520
turned it on, he spun around, looked at me, and

1549
01:38:20,560 --> 01:38:24,439
then he flew away. But so that was the first time,

1550
01:38:24,600 --> 01:38:27,199
and I thought, he sees that in for red light.

1551
01:38:28,840 --> 01:38:32,359
He can see it straight up. Now, I've I've shined

1552
01:38:32,359 --> 01:38:42,560
it around coyotes, I've shined it around bears, I've used possums, raccoons,

1553
01:38:42,640 --> 01:38:47,039
just all all kinds of animals, elk, deer, all kinds

1554
01:38:47,079 --> 01:38:50,399
of animals, and nothing pays any attention to it. Nothing.

1555
01:38:51,880 --> 01:38:57,159
The only animal that I've seen that pays attention to that.

1556
01:38:57,439 --> 01:39:02,760
Our light is the owl, our owls, and and and

1557
01:39:03,520 --> 01:39:05,079
I just kind of do it all the time now

1558
01:39:05,119 --> 01:39:10,640
as anytime I see an owl, I'll turn my laser

1559
01:39:10,680 --> 01:39:13,439
on or click the illuminator or something to see what

1560
01:39:13,479 --> 01:39:17,359
they do. And every single species of owl that I've

1561
01:39:17,399 --> 01:39:20,640
come across will spin their head around and look right

1562
01:39:20,680 --> 01:39:27,600
at me instantly, no no hesitation, instantly spin around, look

1563
01:39:27,640 --> 01:39:30,760
at me. And no other animal seems to pay any

1564
01:39:30,760 --> 01:39:35,000
attention to it at all. And so I'm convinced that

1565
01:39:35,079 --> 01:39:40,359
the sasquatch see the infrared. I'm convinced that's what it is.

1566
01:39:41,399 --> 01:39:44,119
And so they avoid it like the plague, because it's

1567
01:39:44,159 --> 01:39:47,880
a technology that they know that we use, that we're

1568
01:39:47,880 --> 01:39:52,079
trying to trap them with in some way. Even though

1569
01:39:52,119 --> 01:39:55,680
it's just a picture, they know it comes from us,

1570
01:39:56,760 --> 01:40:00,239
and that it's a weird thing that that permeates. It's

1571
01:40:00,279 --> 01:40:04,560
the area that we've put something in and they won't

1572
01:40:04,560 --> 01:40:05,159
get near it.

1573
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:08,039
Speaker 2: That could very well be there's something going on, because

1574
01:40:08,720 --> 01:40:11,760
the way those things, again, at the size that they

1575
01:40:11,760 --> 01:40:15,720
are and the speed that they move in pitch black conditions,

1576
01:40:15,800 --> 01:40:18,479
I mean, we couldn't do it we'd be running into

1577
01:40:18,479 --> 01:40:21,239
trees and knocking ourselves out left and right, tripping over

1578
01:40:21,279 --> 01:40:24,560
our own feet. And these things don't seem to have

1579
01:40:24,640 --> 01:40:26,560
any problem seeing in the dark.

1580
01:40:27,520 --> 01:40:30,399
Speaker 1: No, not at all. And it's like it's like there's

1581
01:40:30,439 --> 01:40:33,560
so many technologies out with your camera on your phone

1582
01:40:33,920 --> 01:40:38,399
or any digital camera focuses with an infrared beam. It

1583
01:40:38,520 --> 01:40:42,079
uses that ir to range whatever you're pointing the camera

1584
01:40:42,119 --> 01:40:45,760
at to do its focus. So you pick up your

1585
01:40:45,840 --> 01:40:49,399
cell phone, it's using that. That's what maybe gives it

1586
01:40:49,439 --> 01:40:53,079
the focus, like a rangefinder like guys use on the

1587
01:40:53,079 --> 01:40:55,600
golf course or used for shooting or whatever. It uses

1588
01:40:55,640 --> 01:41:01,439
that infrared laser to range, so then the camera focuses

1589
01:41:01,479 --> 01:41:05,199
in on it. So every every digital camera, every cell phone,

1590
01:41:05,640 --> 01:41:09,560
everything like that uses that infrared. He mits that infrared.

1591
01:41:10,600 --> 01:41:14,840
So I don't know. That's that's my crazy sasquatch theory

1592
01:41:14,880 --> 01:41:17,399
thing that I'm pretty well stuck on.

1593
01:41:17,960 --> 01:41:20,319
Speaker 2: I know. I mean, that's a theory that a lot

1594
01:41:20,319 --> 01:41:24,359
of people have, and there's nothing crazy about it at all.

1595
01:41:24,760 --> 01:41:27,880
That's one of the problems with this whole thing is

1596
01:41:29,119 --> 01:41:32,760
once you hit that realization and become a knower and

1597
01:41:32,880 --> 01:41:35,640
that these things are out there, then you start trying

1598
01:41:35,640 --> 01:41:40,640
to figure them out and trying to understand why they

1599
01:41:40,640 --> 01:41:43,520
haven't been discovered and why they're so hard to see

1600
01:41:43,640 --> 01:41:47,760
and everything else. And it never stops. Man, it just

1601
01:41:47,800 --> 01:41:48,439
never stops.

1602
01:41:49,720 --> 01:41:54,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. And I've got family members that are like, oh, sasquatch,

1603
01:41:55,439 --> 01:41:59,560
you know, and they're like, oh, I've spent spent plenty

1604
01:41:59,600 --> 01:42:02,880
of time out woods and I've hiked and done this

1605
01:42:02,960 --> 01:42:06,159
and done that. Well, you know, I hear that from

1606
01:42:06,199 --> 01:42:10,159
so many people. But it's like it's like, you know,

1607
01:42:10,520 --> 01:42:12,640
you get all these people that are like, oh, you know,

1608
01:42:13,239 --> 01:42:17,760
I'm the experienced hiker, but I'll always no, they're trail walkers. Yeah,

1609
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:22,600
their trail walkers. They find a trail in a guide

1610
01:42:22,600 --> 01:42:25,720
book and hiked to some little lake on the trail

1611
01:42:26,840 --> 01:42:31,920
that's like a road through the woods, you know. You know,

1612
01:42:33,079 --> 01:42:36,079
and it's like, I know, I know several people that

1613
01:42:36,640 --> 01:42:43,279
around here that man, they've had things, sightings, stuff loggers

1614
01:42:43,359 --> 01:42:45,880
up here that won't talk about stuff. They're like, yeah,

1615
01:42:46,439 --> 01:42:51,520
same things. Yeah, well you want to know, you know,

1616
01:42:52,079 --> 01:42:55,119
I mean, people, so so many people. There's so many

1617
01:42:55,119 --> 01:42:57,319
people that are like, oh, yeah, Sasquatches are a well

1618
01:42:57,319 --> 01:42:58,319
have you ever seen anything?

1619
01:42:58,479 --> 01:43:01,600
Speaker 2: Yep, Yeah, and that's it. That's all you're getting out

1620
01:43:01,600 --> 01:43:01,840
of them.

1621
01:43:02,720 --> 01:43:07,279
Speaker 1: That's all you're getting, you know. But you know, and

1622
01:43:07,319 --> 01:43:08,960
then you get the other ones that are just like

1623
01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:13,319
you know, it's like my family. I've got several people

1624
01:43:13,319 --> 01:43:17,920
in my family that are just like so n but

1625
01:43:17,960 --> 01:43:21,399
they don't live up here, they don't at the time,

1626
01:43:21,439 --> 01:43:22,800
out of the woods, they don't. You know.

1627
01:43:25,600 --> 01:43:29,159
Speaker 2: Well, James, I appreciate you coming on here and sharing

1628
01:43:29,199 --> 01:43:29,960
your stories.

1629
01:43:30,680 --> 01:43:36,439
Speaker 1: Oh you bet, man, Yeah, absolutely, no, it's fun. I'm

1630
01:43:36,439 --> 01:43:38,800
gonna tell you straight up. And I'm not kidding. This

1631
01:43:38,880 --> 01:43:42,560
is the last time I'm telling that story right there.

1632
01:43:43,520 --> 01:43:48,640
That's it. I'm I'm you know, I might tell somebody whatever.

1633
01:43:48,760 --> 01:43:51,600
I'm not going on any more podcasts, I'm not doing

1634
01:43:51,600 --> 01:43:55,800
any more interviews, nothing. That's it. You and Sarah got

1635
01:43:55,800 --> 01:43:56,960
my stories and that's it.

1636
01:43:58,239 --> 01:44:02,760
Speaker 2: Well. I feel honored, sir, really do. It's quite an

1637
01:44:02,800 --> 01:44:08,119
experience that you went through. And yeah, I'm very appreciative

1638
01:44:08,119 --> 01:44:09,920
that you were willing to share it with me.

1639
01:44:11,079 --> 01:44:15,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've been, You've been. It's just like you know,

1640
01:44:15,920 --> 01:44:19,000
it's just people have to share some of their stories

1641
01:44:19,039 --> 01:44:23,119
that way because they're real and they're out there, and

1642
01:44:23,239 --> 01:44:25,720
people have to come out and share it so that

1643
01:44:25,760 --> 01:44:30,399
the other people that are doubters can actually look at

1644
01:44:30,439 --> 01:44:35,960
the experiences that people have really had so that they

1645
01:44:35,960 --> 01:44:39,800
can understand that, yeah, there's man, there's something out there,

1646
01:44:42,159 --> 01:44:42,920
you know, for real,