WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.200 Welcome to the Nonprofits, the weekly show that addresses current 2 00:00:03.240 --> 00:00:06.559 events and news items from an atheist and secular humanist perspective. 3 00:00:06.759 --> 00:00:09.400 In our first segment this week, we'll be putting Texas's 4 00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:13.400 state motto friendship to the test. Texas State Senator Brian 5 00:00:13.480 --> 00:00:17.039 Hughes has introduced two controversial bills. Senate Bill sixteen would 6 00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:20.039 require proof of citizenship to register to vote, a move 7 00:00:20.079 --> 00:00:24.199 critics say would disenfranchise low income and minority voters. Another bill, 8 00:00:24.440 --> 00:00:28.359 Senate Bill nine sixty four, proposes that Texas issue driver's 9 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:32.119 licenses with a non citizen label for legal immigrants, potentially 10 00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:36.719 exposing them to harassment. Advocates argue this stigmatizes legal immigrants, 11 00:00:36.840 --> 00:00:40.719 reinforcing anti immigrant sentiment. The bill's future in the legislature 12 00:00:40.759 --> 00:00:44.159 remains uncertain. This story is from San Antonio Current by 13 00:00:44.200 --> 00:00:48.479 Michael Carlis on March twenty six, twenty twenty five. All right, 14 00:00:48.520 --> 00:00:51.240 so starting off with the fun stuff right away, Jimmy, 15 00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:53.359 why don't you give us. 16 00:00:53.320 --> 00:00:54.200 Your thoughts on it first? 17 00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:58.079 The article claims that this proposer will quote disenfranchise low 18 00:00:58.119 --> 00:00:59.479 income and minority voters. 19 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:01.560 Exactly will this do that? 20 00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:02.280 Yeah? 21 00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:06.079 So thank you for asking my opinion, I appreciate that. 22 00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:12.760 So the typical argument toward having voter id is that 23 00:01:13.079 --> 00:01:16.560 a lot of people can't really afford to either travel 24 00:01:16.760 --> 00:01:20.840 or just pay for the idea itself, and that disproportionately 25 00:01:20.879 --> 00:01:25.040 affects people of low income areas or of a low 26 00:01:25.079 --> 00:01:29.319 income background, and of course that typically falls on people 27 00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:33.840 of color minorities, and so you never really see a 28 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:38.719 Democrat or a democratic policy being hey, let's do let's 29 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:42.120 have more strict voter ideal laws. The argument is typically, well, 30 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:46.040 Republicans want us to impose voter ideal laws so that 31 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:49.000 you know, their wealthy kind of base or their wealthy 32 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:54.159 euer base will be able to coast them into into victory. Right, 33 00:01:54.560 --> 00:01:58.040 So that's the typical way that this would disenfranchise people. 34 00:01:58.040 --> 00:02:01.079 But the second one actually would have an opposite effect, 35 00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:04.599 in my opinion, because they would be giving IDs to everybody. 36 00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:07.680 So if everybody were given an idea and they were 37 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:10.599 non citizen and it said non citizen on their ID, 38 00:02:10.840 --> 00:02:13.520 well then that would really that's a scary thing because 39 00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:16.560 that actually targets people who are not citizens, which is 40 00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:19.919 exacerbates the problem that we're seeing in this country now 41 00:02:20.199 --> 00:02:22.680 where immigrants are being blamed for a lot of this 42 00:02:22.759 --> 00:02:25.439 country's problems, and so that's that's kind of my initial 43 00:02:25.479 --> 00:02:32.439 take on why that is targeting or disenfranchising minority and 44 00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:34.479 poor communities and then again immigrants. 45 00:02:34.599 --> 00:02:36.960 All right, yeah, Helen, I know that you had some 46 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:39.159 to say on this too, Jimmy, So Jimmy tucking about 47 00:02:39.159 --> 00:02:42.280 how it's going to it seems at least target populations, 48 00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:45.719 specific populations in the United States. Do you think this 49 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:49.240 is part of like a larger nationwide effort. 50 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:52.000 I'm well with just the you know what's going on 51 00:02:52.039 --> 00:02:55.520 now with people being arrested, you know, without you process, 52 00:02:56.560 --> 00:02:58.199 you know, being here on green or or you're an 53 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:00.800 American citizen and you just have an to have the 54 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:05.360 right name. That seems this is a trend. This is 55 00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:09.439 a reflection of this because if you have an educated 56 00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:12.840 voting populace, guess what who Guess who's not going to 57 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:18.240 make it into power Because the more educated you are, 58 00:03:18.759 --> 00:03:21.680 and the more and also if especially people that live 59 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:24.840 in poor communities, people of color, they're going to be 60 00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:27.560 educated on the issues that matter to them and figure 61 00:03:27.560 --> 00:03:30.120 out which candidate is going to help them, you know, 62 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:33.520 get resource and get out of poverty. And help with 63 00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:35.919 jobs and things like that, like you're going to pay 64 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:39.639 attention to those things if someone says, you, guess what, 65 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:42.319 we don't really like that. So we're going to make 66 00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:45.759 it harder for you to vote. And that's they're going 67 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:49.639 to push legislation to make sure that people aren't able 68 00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:52.639 to vote as easily as they could, you know, because 69 00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:56.759 it does affect you know, these people that may not 70 00:03:56.840 --> 00:03:58.719 be able to drive to a voting booth, you know, 71 00:03:59.159 --> 00:04:01.159 or something like that. And I find it really silly 72 00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:04.280 because I got my voter ID in the mail. You 73 00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:07.520 can vote by mail. But I think that this is 74 00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:11.319 just a reflection of people of color and poor people, 75 00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:13.039 as Jimmy said, just being targeted. 76 00:04:13.960 --> 00:04:17.199 Yeah, to me, it just seems like very frustrating. 77 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:20.120 It seems how can you get more anti American than 78 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:22.639 that than taking the voice away from the people. I mean, 79 00:04:22.680 --> 00:04:25.639 that was really kind of one of the founding principles 80 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:28.319 of the United States, at least from what I understand, 81 00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:32.720 is that the citizenry can contribute to the governance. 82 00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:36.079 Right, the citizens can vote for who they want. 83 00:04:36.319 --> 00:04:39.360 And if you are removing the vote from I mean, 84 00:04:39.560 --> 00:04:42.839 it's kind of a taxation without representation. Kind of situation 85 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:47.839 if you're targeting specific groups for that disenfranchisement, for that 86 00:04:47.959 --> 00:04:52.560 removal from the whole election system. Jimmy, can you give 87 00:04:52.600 --> 00:04:56.160 us any background, I mean, are there any historical examples 88 00:04:56.199 --> 00:05:00.160 of similar type of identification requirements that might you know, 89 00:05:00.199 --> 00:05:01.639 that might give us a little bit of cause to 90 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:02.199 worry here. 91 00:05:02.759 --> 00:05:05.920 Well, in the United States, you know, there was a 92 00:05:05.959 --> 00:05:09.519 time where people had had to and forgive me, I'm 93 00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:13.519 no expert, but they had to prove that their grandfather 94 00:05:13.639 --> 00:05:14.600 voted in order for. 95 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:15.079 Them to vote. 96 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:17.800 That was a function of the Jim Crow South right, 97 00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:22.560 and so of course at that point many freed slaves 98 00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:25.920 or recently freed slaves, their grandfathers didn't vote because they 99 00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:28.240 were slaves, so then they be able to vote. Right. 100 00:05:28.279 --> 00:05:32.240 But the most popular example, of course, and this isn't 101 00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:36.000 necessarily a voter id law, but this is an identification 102 00:05:36.199 --> 00:05:40.199 law or an identification infringement upon someone's right rights. And 103 00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:43.199 that is the star of David that all Jewish people 104 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:48.040 in Europe were required to whar to identify them. You know, 105 00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:51.800 this helped identify who was the problem and then led 106 00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:57.360 to at least at first deportation, but of course later imprisonment. 107 00:05:57.600 --> 00:05:59.920 And that's the scary thing about a policy like this, 108 00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:04.759 because we're already seeing talks of deportation. We've already seen 109 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:10.680 migrants be removed to incredibly harsh places. The prison at 110 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:13.959 El Salvador. Recently, we saw an American citizen get moved there. 111 00:06:14.120 --> 00:06:18.800 We saw a military aircraft, a cargo aircraft, carrying US 112 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:22.000 immigrants within the US to Guantanamo Bay, which I would 113 00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:25.279 argue is the closest thing that the United States has 114 00:06:25.319 --> 00:06:27.720 at this point to a concentration camp. So you know, 115 00:06:27.800 --> 00:06:30.439 if you look at the road that the Jews had 116 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:34.279 to follow in nineteen thirties Germany, and then you juxtapose 117 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:37.800 that with what Latino immigrants are facing in the United States, 118 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:41.959 everybody should be sounding the alarm in defense of these people. 119 00:06:42.199 --> 00:06:46.079 And you know, I don't know what the next step is. 120 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:49.879 You know, what we can't do is allow this to 121 00:06:49.959 --> 00:06:53.199 go too far. You know, we can't just wait and say, oh, well, 122 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:55.680 that won't happen to us where the United States, No, 123 00:06:56.040 --> 00:06:59.199 it happens. It happens to us. It happened to Japanese 124 00:06:59.240 --> 00:07:05.439 Americans posts nineteen forty four, excuse me, nineteen forty three attack. 125 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:08.600 On Pearl Harbor, right, right, yeah, and that goes against 126 00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:13.199 another American tenet, right, you know, the great American melting 127 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:15.319 pot where we take off, bring us. 128 00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:18.040 Your you're tired, you're weak, and so forth. 129 00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:21.639 And really what it's doing, it's just creating in us 130 00:07:21.800 --> 00:07:23.000 versus them situation. 131 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:25.480 I mean, what what better way. 132 00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:29.879 To identify them other than you know, making them where 133 00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:32.319 or in this case have on their ideas a big 134 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:35.240 label saying I'm one of them, I'm not one. 135 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:36.000 Of you, you know. 136 00:07:36.040 --> 00:07:39.560 And it's to me, that's just fomenting just you know, 137 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:43.639 disagreement and disparagement and getting us you know, butting heads 138 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:47.360 with each other rather than trying to get us to 139 00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:50.800 work together to make life better for everyone. It really 140 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:53.800 is just it's it's really to me, it's one of 141 00:07:53.839 --> 00:07:57.920 the vilest ways of trying to promote, you know, try 142 00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:01.000 to improve the lives of some people at the expense 143 00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:04.360 of others. I mean, it's really it's really savage and 144 00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:07.480 really very childish. I think, Helen, what are your thoughts 145 00:08:07.480 --> 00:08:07.720 on that? 146 00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:12.240 Well, the way like, obviously this is disgusting, but also 147 00:08:12.360 --> 00:08:14.439 to like I'm going to kind of bring it back 148 00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:19.920 that we're we're facing this sort of thing that only 149 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:24.040 certain types of people get to vote, only certain only 150 00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:26.839 certain types of people get to participate in the due process, 151 00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:30.319 only certain types of people, you know, actually get to 152 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:35.519 have the American you know experience, you know, And it's 153 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:40.600 sad and frustrating because, as Jimmy pointed out, we can't 154 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:44.759 wait until you know, we're you know, up to our 155 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:47.440 neck and shit, you know, and we're just trying to 156 00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:50.279 pull ourselves out. Like really, what we're facing right now 157 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:52.759 is the fact that this is this is going to 158 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:56.679 be slow burn and before and then all of a sudden, 159 00:08:56.720 --> 00:08:58.679 people are going to sort of wake up and go, WHOA. 160 00:08:58.799 --> 00:09:01.600 I didn't realize I was living in Germany in the 161 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:04.879 nineteen thirties and forties, and it's like, but now you 162 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:08.960 are because it's a slow burn. Because that and that's 163 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:11.399 the whole thing about like, well it's not happening to me, 164 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:13.559 so it's not really happening. 165 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:16.120 Right, Yeah, And if I may, I want to just 166 00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:19.039 kind of combine some of the points that each of 167 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:22.759 you just made, so in quoting the Statue of Liberty, Scott, 168 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:26.200 you know, we ask for the huddled masses, right, the 169 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:29.440 huddled masses, We open our borders to them and then 170 00:09:29.600 --> 00:09:33.559 helen to your point, only certain types of people get 171 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:35.600 to experience the American dream. Well, we are at a 172 00:09:35.639 --> 00:09:39.759 point where we are fighting against the definition of what 173 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:42.039 it is to be an American, and there are people 174 00:09:42.039 --> 00:09:43.799 that think that they have a better idea of what 175 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:46.960 it means to be an American. But really that causes 176 00:09:47.080 --> 00:09:50.919 us to decide that the principles that we are founded 177 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:53.440 on are no longer good. And that's what this fight 178 00:09:53.559 --> 00:09:56.360 is about. You know, who's really an American versus who's not? 179 00:09:56.720 --> 00:10:01.600 And institutionalizing it is what's happening with these these proposals 180 00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:02.320 in Texas. 181 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:04.799 Yeah, I mean it literally is doing that. 182 00:10:04.879 --> 00:10:08.320 It's literally separate, you know, separating people on the ground 183 00:10:08.399 --> 00:10:11.039 right there. I just wanted to throw out some stats 184 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:13.960 that I found online here. According to a twenty sixteen 185 00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:16.679 study published on Census dot gov, so this is on 186 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:19.720 a government website, the median income of households in the 187 00:10:19.799 --> 00:10:23.639 US is strongly correlated to racial and ethnic identification, with 188 00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:26.759 Asian Americans at about seventy seven thousand per year for 189 00:10:27.039 --> 00:10:30.960 per household, that's the medium median income, White Americans at 190 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:34.559 about sixty three thousand, Hispanic Americans at forty five thousand, 191 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:37.519 and black Americans have a median income of thirty seven 192 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:40.960 thousand dollars a year per household. And so I have 193 00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:44.519 this question. We'll start with Helen. How does that translate 194 00:10:44.519 --> 00:10:48.279 it into disparity in access to citizenship? You mentioned you 195 00:10:48.360 --> 00:10:50.840 got your ID in the in the mail you got 196 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:53.519 you know you can vote via mail. So how does 197 00:10:53.559 --> 00:10:59.039 that How does an income disparity contribute to that systematic 198 00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:01.399 disenfranchise of certain groups. 199 00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:05.919 So because I would have to because I live in 200 00:11:06.519 --> 00:11:08.919 I love Florida, and I happen to live in a 201 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:14.559 mostly white, rich county and very red, so that gives 202 00:11:14.600 --> 00:11:17.960 me an advantage because I'm in an upper income bracket. 203 00:11:18.919 --> 00:11:22.039 I have access this, I have a car, I have 204 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:28.399 access to have that mobility within my community. Now for 205 00:11:28.519 --> 00:11:30.960 people that live in other parts of the community where 206 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:34.799 you're forced to show your ID before you can vote, 207 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:37.000 I can just set it a piece of paper and 208 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:39.600 as long as I you know, they have my driver's 209 00:11:39.639 --> 00:11:42.159 license on file, they can just match it and go okay. 210 00:11:42.200 --> 00:11:44.600 So I can we can mail or mail and voting 211 00:11:44.679 --> 00:11:49.039 thing people that one may not have access to the internet, 212 00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:53.279 one to may if you are required to show your 213 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:56.279 ID in person, the show that you're able to vote, 214 00:11:56.279 --> 00:11:59.080 and they're like, no, you're not the correct person. They 215 00:11:59.080 --> 00:12:01.720 can just kick you out. And that's another problem with 216 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:04.159 it two because you may not have the ability to 217 00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:07.399 mail in. You may not and also you may and 218 00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:09.480 also at the same time, this will be a double 219 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:12.399 ast sword can't drive and go to a voting booth 220 00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:14.919 and you know, show that you're able to vote, and 221 00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:17.960 on the other end, you may not have access to 222 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:22.000 the internet so you can request a mail in voting. See. 223 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:25.240 So that's these are real problems that people fase and 224 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:28.480 that's why you see people that are on the lower income, 225 00:12:28.759 --> 00:12:31.360 lower income and as people of color have a harder 226 00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:32.399 time voting. 227 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:34.720 Right, Yeah, And I would I would add on to that. 228 00:12:34.799 --> 00:12:37.120 I would say that you know, if you're in a 229 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:41.200 lower income family, chances are you can't as easily take 230 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:43.279 a day off to go and vote, or take a 231 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:45.759 day off to go sit at the you know, at 232 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:48.679 the government office for half the day trying to get 233 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:51.080 your document, you know, waiting in line, et cetera, et cetera. 234 00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:54.200 And so I mean it's being having a having a 235 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:57.200 higher income, certainly being above the poverty line does give 236 00:12:57.240 --> 00:12:59.679 you a lot of flexibility that you know that a 237 00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:02.720 lot of lower income families just don't have their living 238 00:13:02.759 --> 00:13:05.399 paycheck to paycheck. They can't afford to take a day off, 239 00:13:05.399 --> 00:13:07.039 They can't even afford to take a sick day in 240 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:10.600 many cases. And so I don't know, it just seems 241 00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:14.200 really really lopsided to me. And so Jimmy, I wanted 242 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:17.960 to kind of take that same thought process there, that 243 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:20.480 same concept, but put it in a little bit more 244 00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:23.919 of a historical context here. And so this is quoted 245 00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:27.240 from This is a Wikipedia article I'm quoting on poll 246 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:30.679 tax and so I want to encourage listeners to don't 247 00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:32.840 just take my word on it, don't just take Wikipedia's 248 00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:35.080 word on it. Wikipedia has tons of links in there, 249 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:37.240 so please check this out on your own to back 250 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:38.039 up what I'm saying. 251 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:39.799 But this is a quote on the idea of a 252 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:40.480 poll tax. 253 00:13:40.840 --> 00:13:43.200 After the right to vote was extended to all races 254 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:46.559 by the fifteenth Amendment to the Constitution, many Southern states 255 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:49.320 enacted poll taxes as a mean to as a means 256 00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:52.679 of excluding African American voters, most of whom were poor 257 00:13:52.759 --> 00:13:54.960 and unable to pay a tax, so as not to 258 00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:59.960 disenfranchise many white voters. Such laws sometimes included a clause exit, 259 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:03.080 emptying any people who had voted prior to enactment of 260 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:05.759 such laws. Kind of like what you were saying. A 261 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:07.720 little bit there, Helen, You're already in the system, right, 262 00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:08.919 That makes it a little bit easier. 263 00:14:10.200 --> 00:14:11.399 Let's see where did I leave off here? 264 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:14.440 Oh, the poll tax, along with literacy tests and extra 265 00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:18.399 legal intimidation such as by the kuklus Klan, achieve the 266 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:23.559 desired effect of disenfranchising African Americans. The Wikipedia article goes 267 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:26.240 on to note that the twenty fourth Amendment, ratified in 268 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:31.320 nineteen sixty four, prohibits both Congress and states from conditioning 269 00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:34.159 the right to vote in federal elections on payment of 270 00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:39.679 a poll tax. Poll tax is illegal in the United States. So, Jimmy, 271 00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:42.279 what I want to ask you. Does this requirement of 272 00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:48.039 specific documentation constitute a poll tax, either literally or indirectly? 273 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:51.559 And if so, wouldn't this proposal violate the twenty fourth Amendment? 274 00:14:51.879 --> 00:14:53.759 Well, I would, I would say so, But I don't 275 00:14:53.799 --> 00:14:57.159 know the specifics of the law. So let's say that 276 00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:01.519 for this proposal that tex wants to make sure that 277 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:06.639 all citizens non citizens have an identification, have identification that 278 00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:09.679 that shows they are non citizens. Well, if Texas is 279 00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:14.679 issuing that license, I would say that it's not it's 280 00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:16.960 not going to violate that amendment. But if it's forcing 281 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:20.279 them to get that identification, I would I would equate 282 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:24.440 that to a poll tax because that identification. 283 00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:25.600 Would be required for voting. 284 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:29.080 So if they want to require identification for voting, but 285 00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:32.279 they want to provide provide that identification, that I think 286 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:34.840 that that that is the only way that this is fair. 287 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:40.000 But making people purchase something where it's going to disproportionately 288 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:44.960 affect those that are in poverty and in poor communities, 289 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:47.600 and for all of the reasons that we've already discussed 290 00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:50.559 in which you two have so eloquently mentioned. Yeah, that 291 00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:53.639 would that would do that, that would serve the same purpose. Now, 292 00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:57.799 this is also more dangerous than just a poll tax, 293 00:15:58.039 --> 00:16:02.639 because this is a physical identification, right, This is this 294 00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:07.799 is a way of discriminating and othering visibly physically. 295 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:08.200 Right. 296 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:12.039 This is not left up to the imagination. Well, could 297 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:15.799 somebody be illegal? Could not somebody? No, you can inquire 298 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:19.000 about it and there work and they could theoretically, you know, 299 00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:21.879 I hear, And again I'm not a legal expert, but 300 00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:25.360 you don't necessarily have to show identification if a police 301 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:27.840 officer asks you. I hear in other places that you do. 302 00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:30.759 In any case, most people are going to do it right. 303 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:33.600 And if you're asked for your identification and you're giving 304 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:36.679 them over proof that you're a non citizen, you're basically 305 00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:39.600 in their minds and probably in reality. If we think 306 00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:41.720 about the way things are going now in this country, 307 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:45.120 asking to get deported, right, and that's what that's the 308 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:46.279 way that we need. 309 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:46.799 To look at this. 310 00:16:46.919 --> 00:16:50.399 Okay, not this isn't just some formality to make things 311 00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:53.919 more efficient. This is a way of getting around legal 312 00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:56.759 safeguards to protect people. And that's how we need to 313 00:16:56.759 --> 00:17:00.320 treat this exactly. That that's an excellent point. It's more 314 00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:04.920 than just voting here. It's almost an invitation for violence. Really, 315 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:08.160 it's almost an invitation for you for these people to 316 00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:10.000 be harassed and discriminated against. 317 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:14.400 And it's I don't know, it's just really frustrated to me. Again, 318 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:16.480 I'm going to be using this word a lot, I 319 00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:19.559 think these days, but it's just so an American. I mean, 320 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:22.599 it's so it's so ridiculous. I do I have one 321 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:24.599 last point, Helen, that I wanted to bring up, And 322 00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:26.960 so I wanted to bring this up because I think 323 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:30.519 it's kind of funny. I found an article from Texas 324 00:17:30.519 --> 00:17:33.920 Public Radio from twenty twenty four and they said, data 325 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:38.240 compiled by the conservative Heritage Foundation, who's most known recently 326 00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:41.680 for being the architect of Project twenty twenty five right, 327 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:45.720 their data shows that non citizen voting in Texas is 328 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:49.400 not a widespread problem, and instead shows other instances of 329 00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:53.279 voter fraud committed by US citizens are far more prevalent. 330 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:58.160 In its database, the Heritage Foundation has included three non 331 00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:03.440 citizens casting ballots in Texas since twenty twelve, three times 332 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:06.920 since twenty twelve. The Foundation's data also suggests that a 333 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:10.960 more pressing issue is Felon's casting ballots or being elected, 334 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:13.960 but you know that's a side issue. It's analysis sites 335 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:17.039 at least four times in as many instances of that 336 00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:20.279 type of fraud than when compared to noned citizen voting. 337 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:22.839 So my question for you, Helen, how. 338 00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:26.359 Does this data support the charge that Texas is proposing 339 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:30.880 discriminatory legislation. We're we're all claiming that this is discriminatory. 340 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:33.559 Does this data back us up? 341 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:37.000 Well, the proof is in the putting. That's that's all 342 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:37.559 I gotta say. 343 00:18:38.599 --> 00:18:39.599 Like, that's all I gotta say. 344 00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:42.440 That it does itself, doesn't it. 345 00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:44.960 Yeah, yeah, Jimmy, Do you have any thoughts on that 346 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:45.440 as well? 347 00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:49.680 Well? I not necessarily. I mean, I want to close 348 00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:53.720 out this segment by just kind of giving my opinion 349 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:56.920 about why this is so important, and so if you 350 00:18:56.920 --> 00:18:59.519 don't mind, I just have to please do please short sentences. 351 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:02.279 And and you know, what we have seen so far 352 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:05.880 is the blaming of immigrants for our problems. Then we're 353 00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:09.920 starting to see the rounding up and deportation and imprisonment 354 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:13.079 of immigrants for our problems. So if we compare to 355 00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:16.279 nineteen thirties Germany, for example, the only thing that we 356 00:19:16.359 --> 00:19:20.799 haven't seen yet is the systematic imprisonment and killing of 357 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:24.680 people for being immigrants. And I hope it stays that way. 358 00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:28.599 But if anybody out there is seeing this episode right 359 00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:31.160 now and you're hearing us talk about this, I would 360 00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:34.359 say that it is time to start considering if you 361 00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:37.759 have not already the reality of our country moving in 362 00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:40.240 the direction of nineteen thirties Germany, and you need to 363 00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:43.720 decide right now, will you conform or will you not 364 00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:47.200 conform if we go that way, because I will never conform, 365 00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:49.720 and I'm going to stand up for everybody's right to 366 00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:52.960 be treated fairly and to be treated like an American 367 00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:56.039 under the Constitution, under the laws that we are all 368 00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:59.079 guaranteed citizen or not. So that's kind of what I 369 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:01.079 wanted to say there. Thank you for letting me get 370 00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:01.839 that off my chest. 371 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:04.480 That is an excellent place for us to wrap this up. 372 00:20:04.759 --> 00:20:08.039 And so if any of you out there get off 373 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:10.480 your butts and do something, don't wait until it's too late.