Speaker 1: What is up, Fellowsikos, I am damn Valley coming at
you with the one, the only, this certified fantabulous mister
Grant Hughes. I'm excited because Grant and I have not
talked via video in like a week, which is a
really long time for us to anyone who's paid attention.
So we're gonna get into hour we'll talk about if
there's any breaking news. I mean, you and I haven't
been doing anything this offseason where there's been breaking news yet,
so that maybe this is the moment. We're gonna get
into our biggest questions that we still have for the
rest of this off season. We have a bunch we're
gonna get to load. It's gonna be a lot of fun.
If you want to throw questions in the chat, we
welcome it. Will either throw them up there maybe throughout it,
we'll try to get some to the end to depending
on timing. But before we get started, Grant, I do
care how you're doing, but I just want the listeners
to know since a lot of people are concerned about
my caffeine intake, and while we're waiting for stragglers to
come in here, these are not two full energy drinks
that I'm just drinking. They're separate flavors. And as I
was telling you, one, this is a really good flavor,
it's ice tea maade. This is cherry lime made. I'm
one disheartened because the sour Patch kid Ghost flavors are gone,
and you know, I loved me some sour Patch RedBerry Bibi.
I mean cutting my Calvin intake slightly. And so when
I used to allow myself one energy drink per day,
I now don't finish it and it goes in the fridge.
And so I get to a point where there's like
six or seven that are just open and there's like
dregs or they're less than half. So I'm just I
need to be caffeinated. It's been a long day, but
I just wanted to anyone. I'm not trying to die
on air, if anyone cares.
Speaker 2: What uh what like does chasing one with the other
lead to like a weird like combined flavor?
Speaker 3: And if so like which because cherry limemade and what
was the other one? Like an Arnold Palmer.
Speaker 1: Flavor basically icedy lemonade? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Are they both just so sweet that it's like, well,
my taste buds are just turned up to ten anyway,
and it doesn't matter that they're slightly different or is
there some is there some cross are there crossover issues?
Speaker 1: It's the I think it's just a ladder that they're
so sweet. It's like, if you mix these together, cherry
lin I made with ice tea lemonade actually might not
taste it just be like cherry lime made iced tea.
Speaker 3: This is a sweeter.
Speaker 1: I guess, how are you doing, Sarah.
Speaker 3: I'm fine.
Speaker 2: I don't have any energy drinks right now. Despite that,
I'm feeling I'm feeling fine. I would love to keep
talking about this, but I don't think that's what's cool.
Speaker 1: Can we talk about I'm glad that we finally have
a thirst trap on this podcast, like you're in the
tank top More did that the other day. We're really
trying to get like the we're leaning into the OnlyFans element.
Speaker 2: Look, we had we we hired a consultant and they
just were like, listen, you have to do whatever it
takes if you want to grow your audience. And I said,
I'm willing to do something less than whatever it takes.
Speaker 3: And so that's why we're.
Speaker 1: Here with that let's uh, let's just dive in right here.
We're gonna begin with the trade between the Clippers and
the Jazz and the Heat. Are you able to take
us through the details and we'll tackle it from the
Clippers' perspective first? Sure?
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the Clippers side of this is they wind up
with John Collins from the Utah Jazz. Miami gets Norman
Powell from the Clippers, and Utah gets Kyle Anderson and
Kevin Love from Miami and a twenty twenty seven second
rounder that was via the or is via the Clippers.
So three team are here. The Clipper side of this,
John Collins expiring deal. I don't have his salary up
in front of me, like twenty six ish million. I
think I can look that up as we're discussing it,
but quietly had a really good year for the Jazz
last season. Hard to be noticed in that environment, but
thirty nine point nine percent from deep just looked like
a starting power forward that could score. And so now
he's on the Clippers and as part of like a
I don't know, we haven't talked about almost anything, but
like as part of a really interesting front court rotation now,
which was like behind a Viatza Zubats, which was like
a real weakness.
Speaker 3: You want to.
Speaker 2: Start on the Clippers side of this or what we
haven't discussed, like any of our thoughts about how either
of these three teams fared.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I have a lot I actually my so
when we get to the jazz section is when I
have my favorite question on this. But I think, look,
the Clippers, they clearly have this twenty twenty seven cap
space plan when you look at how they set up
the James Harden and the Kawhi Leonard contracts, and then
there's blocked down. Mcdonovich comes off the books after this.
I think it's after next year. Excuse me. I think
Zoo Box is like the only real money they have
on those books. And so the reporting was is that
they didn't want to give Norman Powell an extension that
would extend past that. I find it fascinating and this
will bleed into something we're going to discuss that one.
The Clippers went from just like having no real backup
bigs to now you have John Collins and Brook Lopez
on the same team, which I think that fascinates me
in a sense, where is it going to change the
structure of some of their lineups. But the other thing, too,
is just it's interesting that Norman Powell was a borderline
All Star on offense for most of last year and
you traded him for a backup big to you essentially,
so And I don't know, if you look at this
Clippers team with Brook Lopez on it, does John Collins
fill more of a need for them than the Norman
Powell in your eyes?
Speaker 2: So I'm that that might be the better question. But
I was prepared to come in here with like, is
it too much of a hot take to say that
the Clippers might have gotten the best player in the deal,
just just considering Like Powell obviously was phenomenal last year
before he got hurt, but like all we talked about
was how that was such an outlier of a late
career leap, right, Like.
Speaker 3: Is this really who he's gonna be going forward?
Speaker 2: And then like Collins is a little younger, he's that
he's going into his age twenty eight season. Like I
the way I look at it is I think Collins
is like really roughly playing at his level. The shooting
was a little bit better, but he's thirty six percent
for his career from deep. He's like a what sixteen
and eight for his for his career, like never a
great defender except very early with the Hawks. But like
to answer your question, I think like or to answer
my question, I don't. I think it's not like what
if Collins is just the better player on balance?
Speaker 3: And then if you I think if you raise the fit.
Speaker 2: Issues of like what he could provide for the Clippers
versus what Powell.
Speaker 3: Would have offered, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm open to the idea that he just not only
is a better fit, but is actually a better player.
And that's not to take anything from away from Powell,
who like just was better last year full stop. But like,
I don't know, I think there's at least an argument
to be had or are you are you? I think
you maybe were bigger on Powell than I was in general,
But what do you think about that.
Speaker 1: The close of the season for Powell was rough? And
so I think if you believe that John Collins is
gonna give you more of a playoff bump, and I
also I think they viewed it through the lens of
oh John Collins might sign something like a one plus
one next summer with a team option uh so, and
Powell won't like he's gonna want to cash in, Yeah,
especially after the season he just had. So I think
that's where they're coming at it from. And I would
we have a question on this and later. So don't
want to get too much into it. So I don't know.
To me, I don't know if I view Collins as
the best player in this deal, but I even if
he is, I just feel like Norman Powell might have
been the better fit for a Clippers team, Like when
you're looking at who creates off the dribble now like
that it's not really both done by Donovic's game anymore.
Where you have Harden, how much can you rely on Kawhi?
So I think that's the thing that makes me uneasy.
But I think if you sat here and told me
they thought John Collins is going to be more valuable
to them in the playoffs, or they think again that
they might just be able to keep him while he
comes off the books in twenty twenty seven, and that
they just didn't want to pay Norman Pal's next contract.
I get that, but they did treat him, to your point,
they gave up the second round pick, so they treated
Norman Powell like the best John CON's like the best
player in this deal because they took on money right,
Like this was so that that was I'm not saying
it was the wrong move, but it was fascinating to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think some component is financial. I think some
component is like you're like you're selling high on Norman Powell.
I think like or at least relative to what he was
going to be. It's hard to imagine Powell will be
better at any point ever again than he was for
some of last year and is aging and like you said,
wants that longer deal.
Speaker 3: Like, I don't know, I mean.
Speaker 2: Really probably the truth is closer to like this is
kind of a wash, but but I do think I
do think, like what's interesting here is we neither of
us has really gone down this road.
Speaker 3: But Whiso says Miami won the trade hands down.
Speaker 1: Well, do we want to talk about the heat down then?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean, so they moved two contracts and get Norman Powell, who, like,
I don't know what's the I'm uneasy. I guess like
having another scoring wing is great, like next to Tyler Hero,
I don't think you can play him in Hero together,
you know, against real lineups. Probably maybe that's a regular
season thing. I think he's fine. If Davion Mitchell's at
the point and then you have Powell on the floor
and Hero off, you move off of Anderson in love
you get that second. I think I think it's a
good move for Miami, but I don't know it. Again,
I guess I'm just lower on Powell as like being
the same guy that he was. Maybe maybe that's where
I'm getting hung up. What do you think about it?
Speaker 1: So, if you're getting Norman Powell and you're about to
extend him, which they're limited in what they could offer,
it's like, I think it's for the first six months,
it's like three years at all, between seventy seven and
eighty million. But so if you're getting him under the
guys that, oh, he's going to play a near All
Star level. He probably would have made the All Star
Game in the East last year, by the way, or
at least come closer than he did in the West.
There's a flawed to that thinking. But if you're another
team like the Heat, well, I think for the most part,
this is why I was shocked that they guaranteed Davion
Mitchell money in twenty twenty six, because it felt like
they were kind of gearing up for next summer. He
just fits like they upgraded their expiring contracts to me.
So I viewed it from this team desperately needed without
Jimmy Butler a primary playmaker and just additional rim pressure,
and they always needed shooting. Norman Powell will check two
of those boxes and maybe don't because it's not gonna
be the playmaking spoiler alert for anybody who has watching
it's so and maybe the rim pressure kind of wanes
as he gets older. But I viewed it as Okay,
this offense needed that type of punch. It fits. He
can playoff Tiler, hero can play off bam Adebayo. But also,
couldn't you like, isn't there a world in which Norman
Powell at mid season get you more than the Clippers
just kind of got for him? Or you could, from
the heat's perspective, say we got more value out of
Norman Powe because we got a pick or something rather
than Kyle Anderson and Kevin Love who probably wouldn't have
garnered too much interest right at the trade deadline. And
I saw a lot of people frame and says, oh,
they got off of Kyle Anderson's money for twenty twenty six.
That money, unless a mistake, is entirely non guaranteed. So
this is really folding two expiring contracts into another. They
took on some money, but I think it kind of shows,
and this is my question for you, I don't know
what Miami's endgame actually is because I thought maybe this
was gonna be a gap year, but a Powell deal
kind of signals to me that they're not ready to
commit long term to anything. Though that certainly changes if
we see Powell or Hero or Yovich get an extension.
They're not ready to commit to anything, but they're gonna
try and compete in the Eastern Conference still next season.
Speaker 3: I could see that.
Speaker 2: I could also see it just being a case of, like,
I don't know who initiated these conversations, but it's like
you're Miami, you pick up the phone, You're being offered
Norman Powell for Anderson Love and and not even a
pick like that's it just so like Norman Powell is
just more valuable than Kevin Love and Kyle Anderson as
whether it's as a trade asset, whether it's someone you
might extend, whether it's just as a rental for this year.
So like to me, it's you just say yes, like
that's that's easy, whether whether it's part of like a
bigger plan or not. Like it's like what plans would
this mess up? You know, unless you just go throw
the bag at him and you oh, if they're in
our cap space, why did we do that? Like, you know,
that doesn't seem like it's it's likely that you can
start your thinking at that point.
Speaker 3: But uh yeah, I think it's just for what they
gave up. You just take.
Speaker 2: Norman Powell it ten times out of ten, right, you do.
Speaker 1: But again, if if you were gonna to go through
sort of a quasi gap year where a lot of
people think the heater set up to be sellers, is
this just a trade you make anyway? Because okay, it
makes us better. But there's a chance they're able to
move him more value or to at least a player.
We have his bird rights, he goes into free agency,
So maybe it's something like that. But I think that's
the thing I took away from is because it filled
the need. I'm looking at Miami now as okay, like
they're really true, they are still trying to make the playoffs.
It's just they haven't done anything except for bring Davion
Mitchell back this offseason. So I kind of just thought that.
Speaker 2: I mean Simoni Fontechio, Oh the Dunken, Well that was
the other thing.
Speaker 1: It's like, well Duncan Robinson, like, rather than give him
multi year money, you take back Simoni Fontechio, who's expiring.
So I just find what they're doing a little hazy.
But I think that unless you have anything else on
the heat for the Jazz section, I want to focus on.
It's more of a league wide question. But the Jazz
are like they've gotten rid of so many expiring contracts
this off season that it makes sense to focus it
on them. Grant have expiring contracts just lost value because
I think I'll frame Itt this way. They bought out
Jordan Clarkson and then they gave up They attached a
pick to Colin Sexton to get use of Nurkic, which
I still don't understand. Now you're trading who had johncon
said a really good year, like just from a shooting perspective,
like still maybe not an anomaly, but like gives you
that gives you some rebounds to us some athletic pop.
They gave him up for two guys that they're not.
Not only are they backups, but you're just not Like
Kevin Love's not gonna stay there, Kyle Anderson, like is
even gonna play? And how much will will he play
if he does? So I'm looking at this, and I
mean even from the Clippers' perspective, Norman Powell was a
borderline offensive All Star last year and you traded him
for a backup big while attaching a second round pick.
So I'm just and like DeAndre ayton expiring contract, it
was easier to just get ten million dollars back from
him rather than the Blazers trying to turn him into
something or roll him over into a separate kind of asset.
Do you think that the relative death of free agency
where everyone's signing extensions, their incentivized to sign extension stars
or rather forced trades than just hit the open market,
like is our expiring contract is not as valuable as
they used to be, Because I think you could even say, look,
cap space isn't just for free agents. Keith Smith says
it all the time, and he's right, but like, how
often do we just see like these monstrous lopsided trades.
It's always just teams that are selling. They're probably gonna
be bad anyway, and so like you figure out a
way to cobble together contracts. I just I find it
fascinating that it feels like expiring money just is at
an all time low when it comes to their value.
Speaker 3: I wonder if the.
Speaker 2: What's what's actually at an all time low in value
is the thing that you used to exchange for expiring contracts,
which is like a longer term deal of similar value
just because of the salary matching requirements and trades without
like over complicating things. So like, I think maybe part
of it at least is that teams now with the
second apron and everything, just don't want the like the
three year, just to throw numbers out there, the three
year one hundred million dollar deal. They don't want that
deal in exchange for the expiring thirty seven million dollar
contract they're trading somewhere with like a pick attached or something.
I think I think it's more just like the stuff
you would get for an expiring contract might not be
as valuable or as like it's kind of dangerous because
you don't want to put long term like iffy money
on the books.
Speaker 3: Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: Like, I don't.
Speaker 2: I think the examples you gave pretty clearly suggest that
expiring money just isn't that valuable. And like you look
at a team like Washington that all you know, we're
going to talk about how much cap space they could
have next summer because they have all these expiring contracts
if they don't want to trade those for longer term money,
for better players or whatever, I don't think. I think
they just want them to come off the books. And
like you're seeing more buyouts too. So yeah, the more
we talk about it, it does seem like an expiring
contract for several reasons, just doesn't quite like it used
to be such a valuable thing, right, Like we used
to like fetishize those things. They just seem like they
were so useful. But yeah, it doesn't seem like that's
the case anymore.
Speaker 1: No, it doesn't. Bonus topic here as well from Klerk Colson.
Have you all talked about Kelly Olynak to the Spurs yet? Uh?
I think that's another aspiring contract Washington end up get
they get two flyers on Malchi random used to be
a floater, extraordinary and Blake Wesley they get a second
round pick out of it. I like it for the
Spurs just because I want them to have as much
floorspasing on the floor as possible. I am I'm not
sure where you're at with it, Like it's it's super
low risk, but I am starting to worry, like are
their best floor spacers just now at the four and
the five spots? And that's basically it. I guess that
depends on how you feel about Fox Harper, Devin Vessell,
but like it's Barns, it's a Linux and Wemby I
view as like kind of their like most dangerous floor spacers.
I don't know where Devin Vessel belongs in all that.
It's tough with Dylan Harper. I have to see him
like it. So I found that it's like I support
it because like you just want spasing around Webby, but
it's could we get some like perimeter space? I know
Champagne's there, but like can we get some just like
guard better guard floor st basing around him?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean it's they don't have they don't have Chip
England there. They haven't had him there for years. They're
in dire need of a shot doctor. I feel like
for all their guards.
Speaker 1: Our next topic is one that you proposed and I
am just in total agreement with it. So you want
to take us through it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess the header is what are the Lakers
even doing? So we've maybe talked a little bit about this,
and I think we when we had oh that was
probably on the b R stream when we had Kobe
Price on to discuss some Lakers, but everything was kind
of so fresh. Then I think Lebron had just picked
up that player option, which again to emphasize the rare
like he's never done that before, and so that kind
of got us on the topic of, well, is that
because Lebron doesn't want to sign another one plus one?
Is that because it was not offered? And if and
in either case, what does that mean for what the
Lakers are doing? And then we get the report I
think it was John Gambadoro saying Austin Reeves and Lebron
didn't like playing with Luca Reeves and his agent push
back on that, but that just.
Speaker 1: On the podcast, like what is it?
Speaker 3: Oh, there must be best friends? All that was recorded
like a while ago.
Speaker 2: I think from what I could tell, well that definitely
scratched the little itch I have. Anytime there's like a
heliocentric ball dominant star player, I'm.
Speaker 3: Like, nobody likes Nobody fucking likes playing with that guy.
I just know it.
Speaker 2: And so anytime there's little whispers of that, it feels,
I don't know, sort of real in my mind. But
so the Lakers' plans seem to be fairly like future
focused because Dorian Finney Smith got away and the Rockets
it turned out only guaranteed two of the four years
on that deal.
Speaker 1: So I believe that, like I'd always talked about, he
wanted to get back to Texas, but there's no way,
like I just right.
Speaker 2: So that introduces another element of like, are the guys
on the team looking at where the Lakers are relative
to the competition and saying like this isn't even that
good of a situation, like competitively.
Speaker 3: Or are there are other things?
Speaker 2: Did Finney Smith decide I've played with Luca twice now
I'm not interested anymore.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Uh, the DeAndre Hydden signing, I mean that's good value,
like where neither of us is a huge fan of his,
but like, yeah, he's a starting center I think in
a good situation where he's being spoon fed and asks
to do to a couple of things, and maybe he
you know, doubles down on the effort and seriousness of
it all, and it's just like it makes sense. But
then again, another two year deal where maybe he's off
the books in twenty twenty seven as well, or should
be unless they do something weird. So like, I don't know,
that's a lots to throw out there. What is your
sense of the Lakers' priorities do you? And if you
do have a sense of that, do you agree with them?
Like maybe they'll take the first question first? What do
you think the Lakers are aiming.
Speaker 1: For right now? Seven cap space?
Speaker 3: Like I so they don't care about chasing a title
this season?
Speaker 1: I don't it does? I mean, I'm gonna ask you
right now, as the roster currently stands, where do they
rank in the Western I don't need an exact number,
but are they have top six Western Conference playoff team?
Speaker 2: No, I know they're like they're a third tier, which
is anywhere from like nine to two well or something
in the conference.
Speaker 1: I'd say, I don't think. I mean, you could question
whether the like Rich Rich Paul should have released that
statement after Lebron opted in, but like that's not the
statement of It felt like a last ditch effort to
either convey that Lebron actually was unhappy or to put
pressure on the Lakers' organization to do something. But if
it was the latter, because I've seen a lot of
people frame it as that, and I'm open to the
idea that okay, sure, but like that doesn't do shit.
Like if you wanted to put pressure on them, you
would have opted out, but you couldn't because there wasn't
any money out there right for you to grab. So
I like, I don't think that they're focused on winning
a title next year, and that makes me wonder, like
what the play if they're focused on twenty twenty seven
cap space grant, we're talking about like a two year
stay of we're just gonna go as far as Luca
can carry us, And like, what is he twenty six?
That's young, but it's not young young and he has
a lot of just wear and tear on his body
for maybe not being in the best shape, but also
just he's played a lot of fucking basketball. And you
said this and I've actually repeated this on a couple
of shows that I've done. You said, there's no guarantee
his next five years are as good as his previous
five years, and so like every season with him in
his prime is still precious. I don't I don't know.
I'm not saying that they should go out and trade
everything for a Mark Williams. Again, no, that was also
short sighted. But I don't understand the endgame here, to
be honest with you, Is it just that they want
Lebron's money to come off the books so they could
start really reorienting. And who's on board with this? Because
Lebron clearly isn't Dorian Finney Smith either was and they
didn't want him, or he clearly wasn't and left. So
is Luca on board with this? Because by the way,
he's gonna be he's extension eligible this sumer. If he
doesn't sign one like that's gotta start, especially after kind
of what happened in Dallas and just the injuries he's
dealt with, that's gonna raise some real red flag so
their offseason look. Deandreton signing is fine. I find it
funny that he says he uses criticism as fuel and
you know what's happen. You've got a lot of criticism
in twenty twenty one, So are you just not hungry?
Is that what it was like? But it's like it's
a fine signing, but it's just their off season has
been wild and even Jake Laavia, that's a good addition
at that price, just wildly uninspiring.
Speaker 2: So a couple of things I think you have to
you have to agree that really it's more the Finny
Smith exit. That's just kind of like, oh, so they're
not they're they're not going for it because you could
have or or he just said, don't don't try to
beat this offer, because clearly they could have, Like the
Lakers would have had no issue.
Speaker 3: Oh you want to guarantee three of the four years, great,
we'll do that. Uh like that.
Speaker 2: So that suggests to me, and I agree with you
that like being the absolute best version you of the
Lakers you can be is not the top priority this year.
And I feel like that's risky one, principally because of
the whole Luca like aging performance health trajectory. Maybe it reverses,
but I don't know, Like you, sir, I certainly have
more reservations about him aging well than I do about
most players, Like I just I think the last year
and the fact that Dallas moved him as crazy as
it seemed like it just I don't know, I'm not
super confident.
Speaker 3: And then we talked about.
Speaker 2: This too, like, all right, so you're gonna wait two
years and and hope that you get a second star
that's better than Lebron James is right now, I don't know, man,
like Lebron James is an All NBA player. I know
the runway is not long. I know it can end
at any time, but like, these two guys together might
be the best pairing you have while Luca is there.
Speaker 3: That's totally possible.
Speaker 2: So I don't know that compared that coupled with these
this like we're waiting for this offseason of caps, I
just like I think that's a stupid strategy, especially two
years out, Like what are you doing? Like Luca could
tear his acl and work like tomorrow, Like I just
we're gonna wait, We're gonna assume he'll just everything's gonna
be fine for two years. I don't I don't like,
I hate I hate that kind of thinking just because
everything changes way quicker than a two year timeline, like
there might be zero free agents in two years, Like
that's shouldn't that be the expectation and you have nothing
to spend your cap space on like that based on
how the last couple of years have gone, I think
that's totally on the table. So I'm not saying the
Lakers like have a chance to contend, but like just
deciding not to feels ridiculous to me.
Speaker 1: And why so in the chat says it's good on
Lakers for not wasting their twenty thirties first round pick
and some stupid trade I was expecting too that Yeah one, yeah,
you're right, they tried. And also that's not what I'm saying,
but like talent retention, So Dory Phinney Smith is just
the perfect example here to where technically his contract does
align with their twenty twenty seven cap space plans. Were
they not creative enough to think of it? Or again,
did he want out that badly? Which then raises more questions.
The thing I want to talk to you about is
what do you view as Lebron's endgame? With that statement,
do you think he's actually unhappy? What are I have
trade I could throw at you? And he has no
trade clause. But like, what do you just view of
that entire situation, what do you what do you ultimately
think he wanted, Like by opting in.
Speaker 3: What did he want?
Speaker 1: Well, it's just like because I take it as maybe
I'm just misreading how valuable Lebron is, But I would
have thought if he's opting in, that's kind of a
clear show that like he's not happy with the way
things are going. The only other one could be he
had no choice because they said, we're not even gonna
give you a new contract, which would be wild.
Speaker 3: So I think I like what he wants.
Speaker 2: I think it is to make the decision that guarantees
him the most money and like doesn't cost him any face,
I guess because if he opts out, and it's just
like we're gonna talk about like Lebron as a free agent,
who's gonna have to take the mini mid level, you know,
to go somewhere because nobody has any money.
Speaker 3: Like that's a bad that's a look he doesn't want.
I don't think.
Speaker 2: I mean, like that is the side of this we
could talk about, is like if if he really wants
to just win, he I mean, certainly of all players,
Like he's the guy that no one would be upset
about taking the minimum to go just play wherever because
he's made plenty of money in and nobody's gonna argue like, well,
now that the argument against guys taking less is just like, well.
Speaker 3: Now you're setting a precedent.
Speaker 2: You're gonna cost us all money because teams are always
gonna expect us to like take a haircut, just so
the owner can say like as like, I understand why
players don't do that, because it does hurt other players
if it happens often enough. But this, okay, the next
time of forty whatever year old guy wants to take
less to win his fifth championship, Like, okay, cool that
we're gonna be alright with that. Like that wasn't on
the table. It doesn't seem like a trade wasn't on
the table. And so like I don't know if I
can divine like what he wants, but I think what
he did was just like all right, I'll take my
money and then trade me or don't. But like, what
are my options? Like I just he didn't have any
good alternatives if he's not going to take less.
Speaker 1: So if he didn't have any alternatives. What do you
think was the purpose of that statement being released?
Speaker 2: What just the whole like he is evaluating type of
things or like.
Speaker 1: So I think the three options would be he's saving face,
he's letting it be known that he would like to
be traded, or he was trying to put pressure on
the Lakers, which I again, if it's if it's the latter,
I just don't see the logic of anything that that's
been done. Put pressure on the Lakers to get better,
by the way, not necessarily to move him back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean that is always what the one
plus ones have been about, right, is the thread of
him being able to leave. But like, I don't know
that the Lakers would be that upset if he just
left at this point. Maybe maybe it's like setting things
up to where if he does get traded, it can
he can his side can frame it as you know,
we work this out because I just want to go
win a championship as opposed to like, the Lakers are
kind of done with me as the focal point and
that's why they traded me.
Speaker 1: So it's a saving you think it's a saving face move, It's.
Speaker 2: It's kind of all the above. But there is an
element of the saving face for sure.
Speaker 1: So can I throw a couple of trade ideas at Yeah?
Why not? I know that maybe you're going to be
writing about or he wrote about already. But Harrison from
the Spurs, Harrison Barnes, Keldon Johnson, Jeremy Sohan and a
first round pick for Lebron. Who says no, that's how
we'll play this.
Speaker 2: Uh, who says no? I mean the Spurs definitely should
depending on which pick you're talking about, the Spurs should
definitely do that. I guess maybe the Lakers would say
no if I had to pick one, just because they
think they can do better.
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's like a cop out.
Speaker 1: Answer, But Lebron can also say no because there's Lebron.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, maybe that's it, because I we love the Spurs,
we love Wemby, but like there, their roster is not
quite ready for a primetime I don't think with the
with so many young guards. But like, I don't know,
that's a fun thought exercise. The Spurs would Lebron have
a better, like have more title equity than the Lakers
with Luca and Lebron this season?
Speaker 1: Oh, that's a good question. Okay. Next one, Dallas Mavericks
received Lebron James. The Los Angeles Lakers received Kyle Anderson,
Daniel Gafford, Najie Marshall, Klay Thompson, PJ. Washington and their
own twenty twenty nine first round pick back. The Jazz
receive Jared Vanderbilt and three second round picks. So that
would be Phillies into twenty thirty and then both Dallases
and the Lakers is in twenty and thirty two. Who
says no?
Speaker 2: I think maybe the Lakers say no to that because
they have to waive like five guys.
Speaker 3: I don't know what their roster stands at.
Speaker 2: Is that how much of that money I'm sorry, I'm
gonna answer questions with questions. How much of that money
is extending beyond where the Lakers wanted to.
Speaker 1: So here's the thing. Klay Thompson would be an expiring
contract in twenty twenty seven. Gafford would still have I
think three years left on his deal after that extension
or maybe two. But you're getting off of Jared Vanderbilt,
who would also be an expiring contract in that So
when PJ. Washington's like really used, So if you were
trying to be competitive. This feels like a package where
Naji Marshall is going to be off the books by then.
PG Washington, you can resign them, trade them, keep them,
get just let them walk through whatever you want, and
you're getting your own pickback in twenty twenty nine.
Speaker 2: I will say too that a Dallas team with Luca
and Gafford and PJ. Washington, you know, could make a finals.
Speaker 1: Theory already played alongside it.
Speaker 2: That's what I mean, like you're just bringing half the
rotation back I worked.
Speaker 1: Could you wrap your head around a Dallas team that
has Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving, Lebron James, and Cooper Flag
I wouldn't know what to make of that roster.
Speaker 2: I would very much enjoy that if I were Dallas,
that would be kind of fun.
Speaker 1: I have. I think two more. This is an easy one,
and it's one that I think we've talked about the past.
The Lakers get Karl Anthony Towns, the Knicks get Lebron James.
Just straight up it works.
Speaker 2: I'm doing that if I'm the Knicks, so fast, it's
as much as any to get out a Cat's contract,
I think.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think Lebron is way more exciting there.
Speaker 1: Uh. I agree. I think because it's the element of
do you appreciate the flexibility Lebron is an expiring contract
gives you. As a Knicks organization, you might but also,
like they need Jordan Clarkson, there's a limit to what
he's gonna do for your offense, Like getting Lebron as
a ball hand when if you think you have Yabu,
you have Mitchell Robinson, Ariel huk Porty, maybe you have
another minimum slot. Maybe you could get like a Chris
Bouchet still floting around out there. I would do it
if I was the knickt and I think that would
be an unpopular take if I had to guess, I
think Knicks fans would say no. But for Lebron's purposes
do you remember that quote or like the story about
him chasing ghosts and chasing Jordan in the sixth the Ring?
I really think if he went to New York and
want to ring like that's a team that hasn't won
in forever, that title might count as like two for one.
Speaker 2: And I think too, if you get Lebron as the Knicks,
this wouldn't be true necessarily for every other team, but
like maybe you also just get out Horford on the
minimum now or like maybe like maybe there's a little
bit of like, oh, I'm gonna all things being equal,
I'm a veteran, I'm gonna go play there, Like why not?
I mean that there could be some some knock on
effects that would be hugely positive if that happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Wiso says, but then it's a huge risk a
line on Michel Robinson in the playoffs health wise. Yeah,
that's like the alhor forget all. That's why. I don't
know what the defense looks like. But it's like going
from Lebron Connthley Towns to Lebron defensively, I don't know
how much that really impeded you. So my final one,
and this one's iffy because I think people's first response
would be, he won't agree to go here, Okay, and
that's fine. But the Denver Nuggets receive Lebron James and
Bronni James. The Lakers get Deron Holmes, Jamal Murray, Peyton
Watson in a twenty twenty eight first round swap.
Speaker 2: I I don't bump on the he wouldn't want to
go there.
Speaker 1: If he doesn't play with Yo Kich. You know what,
the Lakers should just wave.
Speaker 3: Him right to get out of here. Don't you don't
know ball so much to tell he doesn't know ball.
Speaker 1: Mind the game? My ass? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Uh, I feel like trading Murray does Trading Murray feel
like a really seismic thing that the Nuggets don't want
to do, even though that contract is probably negative.
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask, if you gave truth serum to
the front office, don't you think they might prefer the
flexible because now you don't have to work about paying
Peyton Watson. You get the Jamal Murray deal off on
Lebronz and expiring contract, even if he's resigning, which I'm
assuming would be the goal, there's like a shorter time
horizon on the commitment. And he's also still better than
Jamal Murray right.
Speaker 3: Now, that's actually true? Uh yeah.
Speaker 2: I And then the Lakers have Murray and Luca going forward.
That Murray contracts, I don't know.
Speaker 3: He does it.
Speaker 2: He does it for stretches every year in the playoffs,
but I don't. I don't feel great about that one.
Speaker 1: My gut feeling says it's the Lakers who say no
because of the Murray contract, but like Murray's experience playing
alongside another star, I think him and Luca could do
some nasty things on offense. But if I was the Nuggets,
I would do this in a heartbeat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, disappointed, not mad Suns fan ass with a no
trade clause. Doesn't the team trading for Lebron have a
lot more leverage and asking price or is there an
aspect of the negotiation I'm missing.
Speaker 1: I think as Oh yeah, I was gonna say. I
think the aspect is if the Lakers like want twenty
twenty seven cap space, they could say we're not taking
on Jamal Murray's deal, like they if that's their plans
of right now, We're not taking on Jamal murrays deal.
We're gonna keep him regardless. If he doesn't want to
show up to camp and he wants to make a
thing of it, that's that's on him. But we're already
planning for the future. So your leverage to get stuff
out of teams would be I mean, like the Spurs
package is a good example. That's not a lot. So
it's not like you're making out like bands. Even with Dallash,
you're getting a lot of players but that's because Dallas
needs to figure out a way to match the money.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: Our next topic is, oh, this is it sticks with
everything we've kind of just talked about, grant are teams
expecting free agency to become a thing again, specifically in
twenty twenty seven? We have evidence I guess that the Lakers, Clippers,
and Heat all seem to be prioritizing flexibility for next summer,
or more likely this summer after The potential twenty twenty
seven free agency class includes Jokic, Luca, Jannis, Donovan, Mitchell,
Anthony Davis, Trey Young, Steph Curry, James Harden, Kawhi, Jimmy Butler,
kat Kyrie, Irving, Zach Lavine. This depends on how a
whole bunch of options shakes out and how extensions pan out.
But is there Am I missing something? As free agency
about to become a thing again?
Speaker 2: So I would say that if the biggest data point
you're looking at in saying free agencies making a comeback,
or that teams expect it is the list of potential
free agents a couple of years from now, then that's
not enough because this is always what the list looks
like until extensions take off half of them, and then
options being picked up take off another third, and you're
just left with, you know what we ended up with
like this year where it's like, oh my god, Harden
could be a free agent and Lebron's like option picked up,
option picked up, opt out, extend, resigned, Like they're just
so that's not enough. I think if you're trying to
argue that one, I guess, yeah, teams seemingly hoarding cap
space does suggest they think maybe we'll get back to
something where like a player of Giannis's caliber is like
unrestricted free agent, like didn't extend, didn't do anything.
Speaker 3: Like maybe that's what this is.
Speaker 2: It could also just be like, well, if our choices
now in the second Apron era are having a bunch
of cap space or signing dumb deals that cripple us
and force us to trade picks to get off of
them or whatever, then.
Speaker 3: We'll just do the cap space thing.
Speaker 2: That feels like as far as I'm willing to go,
it's like all I know is teams don't want to
sign stupid deals if they can help it anymore, because
it's just like it's so.
Speaker 3: Much more punitive than it used to be.
Speaker 2: But like I Yeah, that's where I would land on it.
That's the kind of a non answer. All right, So
you're posing the question, do you think that teams are
acting as if like, well, we're just going to get
back into superstars will hit free agency again?
Speaker 1: I don't know. That's why I was asking the question.
And the thing is, I think could they also be
coming at it from a perspective of it, And this
might apply really to only the Clippers, but are they
just viewing it as a convenient reset point where some
of our stars are so old that it's just better
to have that flexibility figure it out from there. Also,
if you just kind of pinpoint a year, like like
let's say if this started last Sea, it's like three
years into the future, think about how many more first
round picks you open up to trade for some of
these teams, And so are you just saying you're buying
time and flexibility to make that next trade? And the
other thing I've considered is do we see more like
Norman Powell, maybe slightly better level players reach free agency
because like the extensions just aren't there, off rip, And
so you're viewing it as do we get back to
a model in so far because it always soell like
you need to have two superstars, but maybe it's we
have the one superstar and then there's a bunch of
Really because of how important depth seems to be when
you look at what the Pacers, the thunder of the Rockets,
even the calves we're doing this year, is it that's
the model? Now we're and maybe we have a rookie
scale max, like we're hoping to hit the lottery there,
but no, we have our megastar and we're gonna use
free agency to get a bunch of other top fifty
to top seventy five players rather than focus on how
do we poach whether it's via trader free agency, that
other top ten, top fifteen, top twenty guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that there's something to that.
Speaker 2: I think just to like take the Rockets as an example, Like,
I think what maybe we'll see more of is teams
with the leverage to extend guys at less than the max,
like the Jalen Green thing in the Shngoon deal and
Jabari Smith, like all those guys got rookie scale deals
under the max that didn't used to happen and that
was really hurting free agency. So maybe that's sort of like,
I don't know the trend of guys that used to
just be rubber stamped like four year scaled maxes or whatever,
and sometimes five are doing a little less, a little shorter.
Maybe there's an option on the end, and.
Speaker 3: Those guys get the free agency more than they used to.
Speaker 2: It's just it's hard for me to envision a scenario
where like the top top guys get to free agency
at like a markedly higher rate than they are right now,
just because if you're that good, chances are you're like
running your team and you're just gonna be offered extensions.
Like Jokic came out today as were recordings, isn't going
to extend at his first opportunity. But that's just because
he can get more if he waits, Like so you.
Speaker 1: Know what it better be because it better put the
put pressure on order to talk about them in the second.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know what I mean, it's hard for
me to imagine right now, just based on this list
that like all these guys are going to be available
and really only like the top two or three are
that notable given their.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's this is from Grace Shout out Grace friend
of the podcast. I would personally not want to move
on from Jamal, but if you have, if you gave
him cruise serum, I actually don't know. I think they'd
prefer if Jamal were just on a smaller number, but
I don't know. Oh for sure, Yeah, he was just
the quintessential, like he had all the leverage because they
couldn't replace him. So it was very clear, I mean
like they signed him after just like it very clear
that he was injured, which was right.
Speaker 2: So well, and he's a good example too, Like I
wonder if today the Nuggets squeeze him a little more
and you don't just get the deal that he got.
Speaker 1: And it's there is a danger because of what the
Pacers did with Miles Turner, but they've also been trying
to get rid of Myles Turner for like a decade.
It seems like and I think, what's more interesting, And
we're gonna talk about restricted free agents in a second,
but it does seem like Chicago with Josh Giddy and
Golden State with Jonathan Kaminga are trying to apply their
leverage and it's easier to do it in restricted free
agency because you have the chance to match. But I
would use here's another example. Jason Tatum is healthy and
Jalen Brown is super MAXI eligible this summer. He's not
getting the deal that he got two years ago.
Speaker 3: Right, No, I can't.
Speaker 2: I didn't think you should have got it then, although
like you just you just do it because you know
you're where they were.
Speaker 3: But but yeah, I think that's right.
Speaker 1: So grant this one's. This one's I'm happy that you
said this because I thought when we talked, I don't
rememer if it was you and me or me and
more where I expressed just I think the Nuggets are
the second best team of the Western COFFERCE. So I
want to make that clear. This is the preface everything
that you're about to say. But I have some questions
about just the method of operations that it took to
get here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we did touch on this just briefly,
and I hadn't really formed my thoughts on it. I'm
still kind of up in the air a little bit.
I would I would say, I like, I like a
lot about the trade from Denver side of it. So
just they give up. They give up MPJA and a
twenty thirty two unprotected pick to Brooklyn and they get
Cam Johnson back.
Speaker 3: We talked a little bit about how like.
Speaker 2: Cam Johnson quietly has been a lot less durable than MPG,
and that's a huge knock on him over the last
several years. That's one factor I think, and I think
where we landed was like, this can't just be about
saving seventeen million dollars a year over the next two
and paying an unprotected distant first.
Speaker 3: To do that.
Speaker 2: That if that's what this was about, then this trade
sucks and I hate it and Denver should be ashamed
of itself, right, Like that's kind of where we're like, you,
you can't be this good of a team with a
player like yo, Kitchen, have that be like your big move.
I lean towards I think Johnson might be as good
or better than than MPG. I think he's a more
well rounded player, even with the durability track record stuff.
You still you've got Mpg's back, You've got the shoulder thing,
Like that's a thing, that's a real I know.
Speaker 1: I think, I'm sorry, what is the actual case for
him being noticeably better than MPJ? Like, what aside from
the you if you think that his body's gonna hold
up way better over the next two years. And you
think that Michael Porter Junior is gonna average like forty
one games play or something. Yeah, if that's what you
believe in the Nuggets, no more about MPG than anyone.
Totally fair, But like you punted on a twenty thirty
two first round pick, right, it felt more financially motivated
to me than it did.
Speaker 2: I think. I think the financial component is indivisible from this. Obviously,
you gave up a twenty thirty two pick, and it's
like we're debating which players better like that. Okay, that's
that's crazy, right, Like so, so that that tells you that, like, yeah,
they cared about the savings. I think if that's if so,
the only way it's okay for me is if the
savings are part of the reason that Denver decides, Okay,
now we can go out and get guys, and so like,
what was it? It's Bruce Brown and who else did
they get that was part of it? Tim Hardaway Junior,
both on minimums I think, are like parts of the
BAE or the minimu or whatever it is. So that's
not necessarily those guys probably were coming on board anyway.
So I think maybe what I'm saying is like the
Nuggets also need to go do something else, and maybe
that's Valentunis and that hopefully they're able to like work
this out that he actually stays in the NBA.
Speaker 3: That's that's kind of where I've landed.
Speaker 2: Where it's like, if it's just the trade with Brooklyn
and it was only about money, then I don't like it.
But if it was part of a bigger plan to
go acquire depth under whatever restrictions ownership has spending wise,
then I understand it, because because they are trying to
make the team better and deeper around Jokic. It's still
like it's an imperfect situation though, obviously because the finances
are a pretty big part of it.
Speaker 1: And I think, so this set you up to because
you cut so much money, set you up to make
the storage for Yonas Valentuni's trade, which I think you
can reasonably say if Jonas Sonchrin is gonna play, which
the reporting is is that they're going to hold him
to his contract, this could be the best roster that
they've ever put around Nikola Jokic. But it's sort of
just that, like at what cost and what was the
process here, And I'm also wondering, why do you want
to force a player to play for you who doesn't
want to be, Like why aren't we hearing more about
like retrading him, like especially once the aggregation, like once
he can be aggregated again because in theory like that
a lot allows you to step out of your way
a little bit more because he makes almost double what
Dario Sarish was on the books for. And I just
don't understand. I understand why they wanted yonais placunisn't me wrong,
But you didn't have intel that he didn't want to
be in the States when you went out and got him.
And maybe it was just about But the other thing
too is just like could this be Like they're saying
this now, but they're like, you know, he really wanted out.
He's gonna give back all his salary and the Kronkeys
just save a bunch more money. I know they're under
the tax right now. So I just I don't know.
I I think if you used your twenty thirty you
got Michael, you basically turned Michael Porter Junior in that
twenty thirty two first round pick into Cam Johnson and
Yonis Valentunis, who may or may not want to play
for you. I don't know how to feel about that.
I think the Nuggets are the second best team in
the West, but I think you could have said that
independent of all these moves, because of what the show
of force they gave against that Thunder playoff series. And
I'm just like, how many times like, yeah, it worked
out sometimes, like the KCP trade that was a cost
cutting move before it really was about KCP. But it's
just like the Michael Porter Junior trade. I understand, like
his salaries inflated relative to the player that he is
and the role that he's playing, but you don't even
know if you got it. It was all about cutting money,
and now the backup big you got because of it,
you don't even like, we can't even guarantee that he's there.
And so I just have And by the way, we're
celebrating the Nuggets offseason and you just said, NICOLEA. Yokus
is gonna sign an extension, which you said, yes, Well,
I want to make it clear he stands to guarantee
himself eighty plus million more dollars by doing that, But
like I just I don't know. I would rather. I
think if I were the Nuggets, I don't think this
was a I don't think this hurt their team on
the court what they did this offseason. I want to
make that one hundred percent clear if anything can helped
them because you turned yes a future first round pick,
which the mystery box appeal we over romanticize it. I
get it, you deepen your rotation by a factor of
one player by making the you know that that trade
just because you got Cam Johnson, you got Jonasvalentcinnis. But
like twenty thirty two, maybe are we all even still
gonna be here by now? Without notice? But I just
I'm not set Phil Brown like this is just does
anyone listen? I just I don't know understand. Shoutout Phil
for I guess watching, But I'm not saying the nugget
they got deeper but at the cost of their twenty
thirty two unprotected first round pick. I just asking questions.
It doesn't mean that I'm tripping, No.
Speaker 2: I think I think, yeah, they they're better. Uh, And
it wouldn't have taken much because they were real thin
and we've been talking about this forever. I think the
issue is just like We're not sold that the motivation
for their biggest move was.
Speaker 3: Like the right one.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: That's all we're saying is that.
Speaker 2: Like it kind of just feels like you like, if
you're in your contract's not good, I get it. That's
like it's also I know it's a distant pick, but
it's not like the Nuggets have this massive stockpile of
first to move, like that's one of the only ones
that they can trade.
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 3: So they yeah, so they don't.
Speaker 2: So that's like a pretty big bullet to fire for them.
Maybe it doesn't mean as much to a team that
has thirteen incoming first, but it's just it's look, until
the Nuggets prove otherwise, they've been making cost cutting moves
and and like that has been the reason for it.
I think it's great that they maybe coincidentally like got
got deeper this summer. Right, If they're two separate issues,
then like I hate the trade, But if it's all
of a piece and they're really like that they weren't
gonna get hard Away, and they weren't gonna get Valentunis,
and they weren't gonna get Bruce Brown if they hadn't
made that trade, then then I like it.
Speaker 3: I don't know that that's that's all it is.
Speaker 1: Do you what is what do you make of the
Honus Valentuna situation. By the way, again, if he is
going to play, it's a fine pick up. But if
he's not gonna play, like, if he doesn't want to
be there, if you're the Nuggets, you can't like, yeah,
you save money. If he's want to give back all
your salary, no no harm, no foul technically, but you
have to look at retrading him, right if he really
doesn't want to be.
Speaker 2: There, Yeah, I mean, what are your alternatives? He's just
he's just not gonna report and you find and suspend
him like that, and then.
Speaker 1: Everybody's let him leave, which is just so so if if.
Speaker 2: They if what happens is they let him leave, and
they're like, huh, suckers, we just save five million dollars
a Dario Sarach salary and then we don't have to
pay him anything, like if that's what it is, and
then we really.
Speaker 3: Are gonna hate the offseason.
Speaker 1: So I just have a trade to propose in the
event that like Yonas Salachiunis doesn't And I don't think
it's Denver specifically. He might just want to leave the States,
is what I kind of gathered from any of that.
But so my trade would be the Nuggets get Gogo Patadze,
iodusun Mu and Jalen Smith. The Bulls get Zeke Naji
Yonas Valenciunis. We know that the Rhyan's doors like to
save money, so if he's leaving, you get to buy
him out. They also get Peyton Watson in Denver's twenty
thirty two second round pick. The Magic get Hunter Tyson
and a twenty twenty eight second round pick from Chicago
top thirty five protection. They're towing a fine tax line.
If they want to fill out their roster, they're going
to be in the tax and I think with Paalo
Bankkaro signing his deal, we're going to talk about that
in a second. I just don't think I'm all for
it if they want to do it, but they're not
owned by Steve Bomber and so I don't think they
should be starting the repeater o'clock. The Nuggets also have
a swap. I did get some feedback on this from people.
They said it feels like the Nuggets are making out
like bandits. Maybe I value Peyton Watson more, but you
could include a first round swap in twenty thirty to Chicago.
Speaker 2: That was my first thoughts, like how quickly can the
Nuggets say yes to this? But if you then if
you throw a swap in there and again they're limited,
I think that makes it a little more like realistic.
Speaker 3: But I still like that for the Nuggets.
Speaker 1: So but I think that they should be looking to
if he doesn't want to be there, like he can
be a retrade cannonate Valancius could be, and if he plays,
that's gonna just make their bench a lot better when
it comes to someone who can give you some offense
mash guys on the boards and down low. I don't
know what we have next year. Do you we have? Okay,
I know what we have next year? This is my question,
My question to you, grant any chance we see offseason
buyouts or wave and stretches become more of a trend.
Just look at what's gonna happen with Dame. Look at
what it looks like it's trending towards in the Beal
situation where the nugget the Suns just want to have,
would rather have up almost twenty million dollars in extra
dead money on their books for the next half decade
than just bradly be on their roster for the next
two years. And then also, look what happened with Aighton
in Portland giving back ten million bucks. Look at what
might happen, Like, we haven't heard anything on the Cole
Anthony Memphis situation. Where was there gonna part ways? It
sounds like he was headed towards a buyout. Is there
anybody that could be next? Do you think this is
just sort of a blip on the radar made Have
you just not even like clocked it?
Speaker 2: No? I have been thinking about it a little bit
because the Dame thing was so just like that was shocking,
right like, and it it also made sense, I guess
in Milwaukee's specific circumstances. But I just never imagined that
that was something that was gonna happen. I do think,
I do think saying that a trend is coming is
a little bit too far from me, because like after
Dame and Beale and Aidan's a little different, Like, there
aren't that many of those kinds of contracts out there anymore.
I guess maybe check back on Jamal Murray in a
year or two, or like trying to think who else
would even be in that, Like this guy's making fifty
million dollars and is just like not helpful anymore or
wants out like that. I don't think there's that many
guys left because teams aren't signing players to those kinds
of contracts as readily anymore.
Speaker 3: Maybe I don't know. Jalen Brown is another candidate, maybe
like down the line, but.
Speaker 1: I thought, you're they're gonna way a stretch him now, No, you.
Speaker 2: Know, I'm just trying to think of, like, Okay, who
could in a couple of years be in like a
Beal situation or a Dame situation. Dame is different because
of the injury. Cole Anthony is very much like the
which one of these doesn't belong in this group? But
I think I think, no, I don't think this is
gonna be a huge trend. I'd like to use the
Wizards as an example, as we have a lot of
their players here. I kind of I thought maybe some
buyouts for like Middleton were possible.
Speaker 3: But like, I don't know, why not just let those
contracts expire? What's it?
Speaker 2: What's it to the Wizards, right, like the buyout is
like we get nothing for this other than a roster spot.
I don't see why that's like a more palla.
Speaker 1: I think in the Wizard's case, it would be okay,
you open playing time for youngsters to where's Chris Middleton
taking touches in minutes away from Cam Wittmore. There's also Treatum,
Well is that better than just but like saving because
if you don't think you can remove him. So I
don't know if I don't think it's gonna be the
start of a trend. But this offseason has been mega
weird on that front. I'm almost more just wondering are
team's gonna be or is this just sort of we're
at the front end of like kind of the beginning
of the apron era, and now we're gonna see like
teams are over correcting in the face of that.
Speaker 3: I think that's right.
Speaker 2: I think the contracts we're talking about our vestiges of
the old era. We're in the new era now, and
teams are gonna sign players, you know, in keeping with
the rules and standards of the day, as opposed to like, okay,
once these are all like get aged out or whatever.
It's kind of like when all the crazy contracts signed
in twenty sixteen, like the Capspike summer, It's like, once
those are all gone, it was like, huh, all right,
now we can get back to just operating in reality.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm I'm gonna be called I just feel
like Marcus Martin name I might be watching where just
feels like, look at all those guards and are on
the Wizards now. But I agree with you that we can't.
I wasn't trying to infer trying to I just this
all season has been weird.
Speaker 2: Right, There's there's one if mb it gets another bad injury,
but the Sixers buy him out.
Speaker 1: Man, how would he do that? Like he's guaranteed like
two hundred and fifty million over the next four years.
Speaker 3: I don't know. He could just chill out somewhere.
Speaker 1: Does matt ishb have the worst case of new owner
syndrome in history? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Modern?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Modern, like in recent memory, Like, no doubt about it.
I hesitate to even think of his like is there.
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily support Milwaukee did They're just trying to
keep you honest. But on the bill front, like I
don't understand the logic of the Suns at all, aside
from trying to save tax money, because who, what is
the move that you're making like that you can't make
now that getting rid of Beal is gonna allow you
to do. I still don't understand if it's purely financially motivated. Again,
that's dumb. Like it's just I understand that's a part
of like the team building concept. But you can't. Where
are you going the next half decade if you have
it's a little under twenty million. If he gives back
the money he needs to for them to make it
work the next couple of years, you're going nowhere with
just a twenty million dollar dead money cap hit on
your books. You can't. I would bet if you sit
the over under on the number of times the Suns
make the playoffs during that five year span at one
and a half, I will smash the under.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's right.
Speaker 2: I mean this, this shouldn't be a sufficient motivation to
think buy out with the type of money we're talking
for Beal. But it's like the vibes are so bad.
That's like he's he hates it there. Everybody's pissed off,
like on his behalf even like maybe he's liked by
this teammates still despite it.
Speaker 3: Like maybe that would be part of it. But you
can't make.
Speaker 2: Like you can't just set one hundred million dollars on
fire just because because the locker room's got some issues.
I think you just send them home, I guess, and say, like,
we'll pay you, you'll pay your money, you just aren't
gonna play, and we'll make this two year, you know,
stretch of purgatory as opposed to just just further crippling
our next half decade, you know.
Speaker 1: And my final question just on this front is like,
and now just slip my mind so I don't even
remember it, so we might need to move on. That's
just that's that's awesome podcasting right now. I find I
find the entire thing though, just fascinating because it's just
having we've never seen that type of dead money on
the books, and now we might have two teams with it,
so I don't necessarily I'm curious to see if that
just becomes anything or like you said kind of at
the top of this, it just feels like an overreaction
to or it's they're over correcting in the face of
what happened with the Aprons and if I remember what
I was thinking, So I thought it was a good point.
I'll circle back to it.
Speaker 3: Let me know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, we are on too. Someone added a Knicks.
Speaker 3: Question, my New York Knicks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Grant's New York Knicks. You could tell by his hat, Grant,
what do you make of the Knicks? Just like I
don't think we've talked about the Mike brown hire specifically,
and they also the other the other note, it's on
the screen if you're watching that. I did want to
pick at is we have Ian Bagley. He said this twice.
He wrote bet twice. The Knicks did background on DeAndre
Ayton because they like his fit next to Towns, and
he also reported that when they signed Yabucelli, it was
because they liked the idea of him coming off the
bench behind Robinson and Karl Anthony Towns. So I feel
like they've decigned karnthy Town's needs to play with another
big which I think makes Karl Anthony town substantially less
valuable on his go Oh, I remember, can I go
back circle back to my question? I was I thought
this was gonna be Jared Jackson Junior as sort of
the litmus test as to why, like what is the
bar for getting a max type deal? And now he
did get it was a renegotiating extent, so like it
ends up being maybe the four year max what he
could have gotten next year. Is there a player you're
kind of watching to where it's let's see, like where
the because if it was Jalen Brown, like we said
before this summer, I could see it being him. It
was Bradley Beale in his prime. Like I'm just I
is it weird that I'm focusing on Trey Young and
his extension with the Hawks as just like that's someone
who is supposed to be your best player, but he's
not very clearly a top two player. So could they
does he not get a max extension or is it
a shorter one, or is there just another player we
should be kind of or even an archetype. Maybe they're
not even up for an extension soon or free agent soon,
but you're looking at them and saying, that's gonna be
kind of the barometer for where the new contract bars
are going to be set.
Speaker 2: I think Trey is a great one, uh to to
test that theory. I wonder if like you can't use
like I already mentioned the Rockets Rookie scale guys as
examples of like an aw Pallo flies on the face
of this because he did get the player option that
like nobody was getting. The rookie scale ones are harder
to use as like a barometer. But yeah, what about
like I don't know, like John Morant that the stock
is as low as it can get, but like he'll be,
he's not. His next extension won't be a rookie scale one.
Speaker 3: Trey's Tray's probably.
Speaker 2: The the best, like next in line case for this.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I was just I'm putting a pin in that.
I'm happy that I remember it while we were meet too.
So what do you make of the Knicks and their
decision to CONTI Town. It seems like they want to
start him alongside another big And the other thing is,
unless you think Dottie is gonna do something this year,
they're very like wing going from like oh look at
wingstop to now they're just very wing light and there's
not they didn't lose anybody, thatsly changes that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, I think, well just start at the top.
I think Mike Brown's probably about as well as they
could have done. And and I think there's a great
chance that, like we talked about this a little bit
to where he may not be a better coach on
balance than Thibodeau, but he might be as good and
he might be a little different, and that might be,
you know, net out as a positive. I mean, he
will be different, I think, just in terms of like
what he prioritizes and how he uses rotation and things
like that, probably more offensively inventive. I mean, I certainly
hope so, because I feel like there's just so much
untapped upside in the Knicks offense.
Speaker 3: But so did the cat.
Speaker 2: Like we're learning anything new about Kat like that he's
not he can't be a center defensively. He was good
with Rudy Gobert. I think he's gonna be good with
Mitchell Robinson. That inherently makes him less valuable because like
good shooters that can't protect the rim are just like
they're forwards, and there are a lot of those guys,
and you probably want your forwards to do more and
you don't want them to be paid that much. So yeah,
it devalues him, for sure. But I don't feel like
we're not. I think it's the best way to play him.
To be clear, I think I think Robinson adds so
much the Knicks don't get from other guys on both
ends that like, yeah, he's got to start as long
as he's healthy, and you manage his minutes, and Kat
will play some center. But but I, yeah, I'm not.
I don't feel like we've had some kind of the
curtain hasn't been pulled back. This is like a thing
that we knew, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah and so, and Cynthia has a good question that
we're actually gonna tackle at the end of the segment.
So I'll throw it up there in a couple of minutes. Cynthia,
I it's probably the right call. And we didn't see
enough of Robinson and Cat together. They played I think
through the playoffs in regular season sixty seven minutes left. Granted,
Robinson missed a ton of time. They were the Knicks.
Rod scored by one point during that time, but they
grabbed forty two and a half percent of their own
misses and they shot really well from two. I think
I agree with pretty much everything you said, and that
if this was your end game, I probably would not
have made the Karl Anthony Towns trade. Maybe not, but
I do think like the problem with Towns at center
is when they stashed a smaller player on him, there
is just data upon data upon data to show that
he is so less aggressive, and so if you're putting
him in a situation where you can't necessarily do that,
I think it puts him in a better offensive mindset.
So and if it's gonna come at you could say
it comes at the expense of spacing. Having Josh Hart
in the starting lineup comes at the expense of spacing too,
So I think this is the right call. I just
if your whole, like the whole premise of getting Karl
Anthony Town's was the five outs basing, and now it
seems like you're moving away from that, And I don't
necessarily know if you've done enough around him defensively to
make the most of it. Because I think the other
thing with Mike Brown is you mentioned the ball movement,
the body movement. I think that's gonna help the Knicks
a bunch, just because Karnthie Towns and Jail bruns A
were leading very separate existences and if you look at
the passes per game, Sabonis and Fox made to one
another during their time together. It is a lot more
than the number of passes Jailen Brunson and karl anthy
Towns like had between each other. Playing faster, all that stuff.
But defensively, he did use the bonus. Isn't a good defender,
but he had him in some aggressive situations without taking
him out of the defensive rebounding conversations that could maybe
benefit Cat, especially if he's playing with another big. So
I understand, well that's going to be the impetus, but
I will say I feel worse, not even that, like
when you look at what happened with Julius random with
I don't know, I probably wouldn't and I don't think
it's a huge miss. And I want to see what
Mike Brown does with this team. But if you're saying
not you specifically, but if the nick saying Kat is
going to even split his time evenly or skew more
towards playing with another big, just at his money, like
I don't think that, like I wouldn't have done the trade,
then that's it's tough, Like it's I'm open to being
wrong here, But like when you don't have like Mitchell
Robinson can't play the same amount of minutes or have
the same type of impact as the Rudy Gobert and
some When you don't, it makes it even harder when
you don't have that caliber of center next to him. Yeah, yeah,
that's what makes me uneasy. The final question before we
get to Cynthia's if you don't get carnthy Town's extension eligible,
they should definitely not give him one unless he's gonna
lower his cap hit on that player option. If Mikale
Bridges he's eligible for that four year, one fifty six
point two million dollar extension, or Mitchell Robinson, who's like,
I think he can go to four and close to
like ninety or whatever it is. If one of them,
I'm not saying he should get the max. To be clear,
if one of them doesn't sign an extension, if you're
the Knicks, do you just wait until restricted free agency?
You do the og Ananobi dance where it's yeah, they
won't cost the max in Bridges' case specifically, but we
have to give them a fifth year, or do you
start looking at Okay, we have cat on the books.
Oh g's expensive. Gan Brunton took a haircut, but like
we got to pay heart, Like, do you look at
moving him if he doesn't sign an extension.
Speaker 2: I think you got to be open to it. It
wouldn't be my first choice, but I but I do
think as a threshold issue, if I'm Bridges, I'm not
signing the extension I'm eligible for right now. I just
like that's just not enough. And I'm looking at the
teams that are hoarding cap space and saying like I
could see a few destinations, like it only takes like
we always say it only takes one, or everybody always
says it only takes one. If there's two or three
teams with cap space, then like, do not sign a
below market extension right now? Just try it out. So
from the next perspective, yeah, if if you think, if
you think the reason he's not signing an extension now
is because he's just he's happy to take more from
you and maybe not max from you, then you wait.
But if it's because he's like I don't want to
be here, which I don't think it is, then then
you yeah, you move him. Then you listen to offers
for sure, because neither of the those guys are important
they're not Jalen Brunson, so like you could you could
you could add, you know, you could change pieces out
around Brunson and that there are there are Mikal Bridges
facsimiles and Mitchell Robinson fac similes out there, so you
can't you can't like treat them as as you like
non starters and trade discussions.
Speaker 1: I agree with you that Bridges shouldn't sign the extension.
I think if he doesn't, it makes the trade look
worse because I really thought part of the pick equity
they gave up the calculus was he's going to sign
that extension and kind of do what John Brunson did
and concede that opportunity to hit the open market.
Speaker 3: Well, I guess we'll see.
Speaker 1: So Cynthia Roach says Grant. Do you think the Hawks
and nor Magic around the same tier as the Knicks
and Caves in the East when it comes to their
likelihood of making the conference finals or finals appearance? And
I will finish that with saying the Knicks are currently
favored the betting nods say to come out of the East.
Speaker 2: And I think number two in like championship odds just
because they're likely to make the finals. So of course
they're going to be number two.
Speaker 1: And also I know New York a pretty small market,
but they might be getting like that interest.
Speaker 3: Bump just could be a public team.
Speaker 2: You're saying, yeah, my gut is no. Like we both
were like, oh my god, watch out for Atlanta and Orlando,
Like Orlando. I think we talked about how like you know,
Orlando won ten fewer games than the Knicks, and they
had their two best players out for like huge chunks
of the season, and they added Desmond Bane and like
Can and Tyler Jones, like like, so I don't know,
does that make up ten games right there? Maybe I
think if you're talking about like regular season record, maybe
that's an easier conversation.
Speaker 3: But it just feels like, I.
Speaker 2: Mean, Cleveland's not exactly battle tested in the playoffs. They
keep fucking it up. But like I would still say
that Calves and Knicks are kind of on their own
level as far as you're you're ranking Eastern Conference finals
like likelihood, But I mean Orlando's clearly better, Atlanta is
clearly better. I think maybe the best I'd say is
the gap is a lot narrower. Like that's a discussion.
Now it's I I still lean the the more established powers.
Speaker 1: I think, Uh, this just proves to me that we
do need to do those. We're gonna do tier episodes
for each we got it now. I think I would
have the Calves, the Magic and then kind of the
Knicks in the Hawks battling it out. That's where I'm at. Maybe,
like I could see any one of those teams finishing
with the number one seed at this point, to be honest,
but I really like Orlando. I really really like that roster.
And as you said, it wasn't even just their two
best players missing time. Jalen Suggs miss shit tons so.
Speaker 2: They forgot about Jaalen Suggs. Yeah, I mean they're three
best players missed a ton of time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think they're the second. But I think
it goes Calves, Magic Knicks for me right now. A
lot of off season left to go, though, so we'll see
what happens. Speaking of the never mind the.
Speaker 2: Restricted free agents, do you want to take us through
this one?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Dan, there are some dudes that have not gotten off
her sheets yet.
Speaker 3: It's very weird.
Speaker 2: It's almost like nobody has any money. Josh Giddy, Quinn
Grimes Jonathan Kamika, Cam Thomas.
Speaker 3: They are all restricted.
Speaker 2: Hasn't been really as so much as a peep on anybody,
obviously because Brooklyn was the only team really they could
put an offer sheet out there. There were signing trades.
Theorized about any chance, how about this, which if any
of these players do you think is most likely to
do the unthinkable and sign and play on the qualifying
offer with their current team?
Speaker 1: I so I have to if the answer is who
do I think would do it? I'm going to say
Jonathan Kaminga because he just seems like but to give
that quote about him believing he's going to be an
All Star feels like he could. You have to have
that self confidence to confidence in yourself, excuse me to
go that route. Now, do you agree that that's the
right answer to that question?
Speaker 2: I think I would throw Grimes out there.
Speaker 3: Well, I go.
Speaker 1: If you said, who should let's say one of these players,
who's the one that should sign the qualifying offer? Grimes
would have been my answer because quite frankly, we know
shit's gonna go sideways in Philly with injuries.
Speaker 2: Right, you want to sign up for a long term deal.
There is that what it's about well that's.
Speaker 1: Also just like so you I feel like he'll have
the opportunity to really continue to prove what he did
towards the end of last year. Still so like because
Paul George and Juwon Beider, even if they're healthy, Like,
are either of those guys gonna play in sixty games
next year?
Speaker 3: I wouldn't bet on it.
Speaker 1: So I know there's like a lot of guards now
in Philly with VJ. Edgecomb and Tyre's Maxie and Jared McCain,
But I think Quentin Grime should be the one. You
could probably also make a case for Cam Thomas because
he'll get a bunch of touches in Europe. I think
Quent Griham should be the one, But I think Jonathan
Kaminga is the only one who has like the gall
to do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he's also the one that's just in
a situation that like he I mean like really relative
to how kind of how much of a mess it's been,
he's actually been like almost admirably like.
Speaker 3: Cool about it.
Speaker 2: Like there was a couple of times where things of
leaked that he's unhappy with how he's being used, but
like he's he's unhappy all the time, Like there were
only a couple of times that it like became it
joined the news cycle, so so like and look I
get it from his side. We've we've talked more than
enough about Kminga. But yeah, dude, I go ahead.
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask, do you see any of these
guys ending up on other teams? And this is the
Nets are the only team that has cap space with
the Jazz they can get to like eighteen plus million
if they want to, And it would be really funny.
I'm just saying to see, even if it's a sign
and trade, I would love to just see the emotional
dynamic between a team that has Ace Bailey and Jonathan
Kuminga on it.
Speaker 3: Oh that.
Speaker 2: I think I think Uh, I think Kaminga.
Speaker 3: Is the like I think it's it's gonna be a
sign and trade.
Speaker 2: I don't think anybody's This isn't gonna happen via an
offer sheet for anybody.
Speaker 3: I don't think. I just don't know how that would
even work.
Speaker 2: So like, I think Kaminga has more suitors or at
least that we've heard about, like Miami's interest did the
King's Chicago. I think are the main teams being mentioned,
there's just enough, there's enough like to go on to
for him, and everybody else is kind of like just crickets.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm just more into the Warriors news cycle, but
I don't feel like you're hearing like so and so
is really looking at Josh Giddy. There might be a
sign and trade there. I don't I haven't heard any
of that.
Speaker 1: Who even gets the most like guaranteed money per year
or the highest average annual salary. I kind of feel
like it's going to be Josh Giddy. Is that?
Speaker 3: I think?
Speaker 2: I think it's definitely gonna be Giddy. And I mean
he's been the most consistently productive I guess from a
standard statistical kind of mindset.
Speaker 1: I don't know all those well, I guess he's improved.
Camp Thomas has been like pretty true to his identity
through it.
Speaker 3: He is what he is, man. It's just that's not
a valuable thing.
Speaker 1: We now get to talk about the Orlando Magic. So
Paolo Bancaro gets the max with the all NBA language
in it. So it's either gonn it could be worth
up to two hundred and eighty seven million, but he
doesn't make All NBA or win MVP or Defensive Player
of the Year. I think it's two hundred and thirty
six million or whatever it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, how does he guys survive on that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope he's okay. One. I'm not surprised that
he got the max with the All NBA language. That
shocks me, not at all. The player option was interesting
because I didn't even realize this. We've talked a lot
about how they fall him by the wayside. It hasn't
happened since a max contract, even out the player options
in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, nobody's getting him, And it was I remember thinking
like who uh, I'm trying to think who like MOBILEI
I think didn't get one or something or MOBII got
the I forget what it was, but yeah, I thought
there were way more and it's like, no, it just
doesn't really happen.
Speaker 3: Teams always have been able to do this.
Speaker 1: Do you think that there's a chance those come back
or is it team still just have all the leverage
in this situation. This was the magic kind of rewarding
Palo for playing in like the clunkiest bassing possible for
the past three years.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I guess he's he's also got the advantage of like
he's a number one overall pick, he's been an all star,
Like maybe he just.
Speaker 1: Anthony Edwards did have that advantage at all, Right.
Speaker 3: That's true. Yeah, I don't know what it is.
Speaker 2: I guess maybe it is that maybe they're like, hey,
sorry man, sorry, sorry about the last couple of years.
Speaker 3: We know we needed shooting. Maybe this will make it
all better. Uh.
Speaker 1: Gray Jay says the player option was also what made
me raise my eyebrows, even Ant didn't get one, And
so it's just I don't think it's a harbinger of
him on his unhappiness, but I think it kind of
speaks to maybe the magic took a little too long
to hit go or to increase the spacing and offensive
firepower around him, because you don't like this was negotiated
like for It wasn't just like they offered it to
So I don't think there's like, again, this doesn't signal discord,
but if it doesn't happen elsewhere, not that and we'll
get into the other some of the other extension candidates.
I'm just something else. I'm gonna put a pin in
We're just we're just asking questions, right, dude, I'm sorry,
I've mean test. Did you consider them the second best
team in the East? Who did you have before?
Speaker 3: I totally I.
Speaker 2: Think it's still Cleveland and New York, and I would
say that while adding like it would not be remote surprising,
Like you said, if Atlanta or Orlando just was the
number one seed, I just need to see it.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna trust the known commodities first.
Speaker 1: And also, who's max contract? Do you feel better about
Palo's or Franz's pallos? Why?
Speaker 3: Why is that a question?
Speaker 1: Because it's it is a question amongst people. I don't
necessarily see it. We like to look at on off
data from when Franz was playing with a bunch of
against a bunch of bench units without Rollo over the
first few years. But just I was just asking questions.
Speaker 2: If Franz were a thirty seven percent three point shooter,
I would have more more reserves, like it'd be a
closer call for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think Palo has been pretty underrated as
a defender, like for this the crowd that he could cover.
Speaker 2: So Pallo's Palo's the guy, you know, the scoring, like
the physicality that I see him as the best player
on a really good team. Franz is just Franz to
me feels like a really high end like complimentary number
two guy. He's like the Jalen Brown to the to
Palo's Tatum kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Have done enough to where let's say Palo's efficiency doesn't
improve independent of his free throws next season, would you
be concerned? Or do you still look at it and say, like,
I mean, you have ties in Desmond Bane. It's not
like you loaded this team up with Klay Thompson's in their.
Speaker 3: Pron Would I be concerned about Paolo specifically?
Speaker 1: You mean, yeah, if his efficiency independent of free throws
doesn't uptick when you've now surrounded him in theory with base.
Speaker 2: See maybe a little bit, but like, look, we're still
not that far into his career, Like he's still very young.
I think there's if like this is this is a
thing I'm like I'm really leaning into more of like
even guys that are starting their second contracts, Like like,
do we think Anthony Edwards is done developing? Just to
keep invoking his name, Like I don't. I think there's
still like layers to go.
Speaker 3: And I think that's true of Paolo.
Speaker 2: So I don't know when I'd start sounding the alarm bells,
but it would not be this season if he if
he didn't improve efficiency.
Speaker 1: We love Palo around these parts. We did all the
story quick two quick hitter rounds here. So we're in
a star with guards galore? Where are some of these
veteran guards gonna land? Grant? You want to take us
through some of them? That's most intrigued because there's a
there's a lot of like, oh, these these guards could
kind of play. They're still floating around the market.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm glad.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you extended this list because I threw like
three I threw the three bigger names Chris, Paul, Russ
and who else did I put on their brogden?
Speaker 3: I think?
Speaker 2: And it's like, well, they all make sense for the Clippers,
I guess in some sense. I don't think Russ would want.
Speaker 3: To go back there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, so you've got Malik Beasley, he's a little
you know, we've got some twos and some ones here.
I don't like what's gonna happen with Beasley?
Speaker 3: I guess we can't.
Speaker 2: We don't know the what's gonna come of the gambling investigation?
Speaker 3: But like this is this is a.
Speaker 2: Guy that what was on the table for him from
Detroit like three for forty eight or something like that.
Before three forty two, I think it was okay. Where
it's like now I think he goes anywhere it's a minimum.
Maybe you get like the biannual or something.
Speaker 1: Did you see this? Can we talk about how do
you get sued by a barber or how do you
oh barber like fifty thousand dollars? Well, was it a
traveling but was it like your personal barber that couldn't cut?
Speaker 3: I just don't how good?
Speaker 1: Maybe this we need.
Speaker 3: To scrutinize Beasley's hair.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's like really good hair and it's just like
only the best look.
Speaker 1: He's the extent of his off off court stuff. It
makes you wonder about because I was giving Detroy credit
this offseason as oh, the Beasley stuff happened, and like
I thought they'd rebounded nicely, and some people have been
hammering them, And I look back on it now, like
when you have time to think about it, I'm like, well,
we all knew about this Beasley stuff, and they like
decided to like kind of tether their rope to him. Anyway,
could you like ever acquire him or pay him, like
guaranteeing that he would be a stable presence for you.
Speaker 2: So, I just he does not seem like a responsible adult,
I would say, And so like maybe maybe that's I
don't know, he's continued to be employeed, he has bounced
around more than someone like with his shooting ability, you
would think would but but yeah, I mean he's gonna
get a minimum now, right, and like basically we'd be banned.
He might be, right, yeah, best maybe best case scenario,
he's going to get a minimum, and like based on his.
Speaker 3: Financial situation, that's it's not gonna cut it.
Speaker 2: I think he's uh, he's got some some real debts
and some real issues.
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, I don't know, he's he's a fascinating character.
Speaker 1: I should barber analytics.
Speaker 2: Yeah, can we talk more about we can we get
a close up of Beasley's hair, Like how often is
he getting haircuts?
Speaker 1: A pretty basic cut this year, right, I don't remember,
like he used to have like some I think different variations,
but I don't know.
Speaker 3: Whatever that was for other people's haircuts. Maybe he's just
being a good guy.
Speaker 1: This is uh, who's that Malcolm Brogden. That's like kind
of I know he has his health stuff, but that's
like kind of an interesting name for a team. Yeah, like, no, you.
Speaker 3: Do you think we're getting like how many years in
a row? Is it?
Speaker 2: Where it's like I think Malcolm Brogden could land there
and really help and then like it doesn't really happen.
Speaker 3: Is like year four of that?
Speaker 1: Don't we have to see what happens with Beal because
I don't have bel On here we already talked about.
Also don't have Ben Simmons. Apologies to Ben Simmons, like
he would make sense on the Clippers finally if they
end up not getting Beal right after they just traded Powell.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, sure, I mean that's kind of true for
like d' anthony Meltin and Alec Brooks, all these guys.
Who else do we have your Cody Martin? Uh GP two,
we better be back with the Warriors on a minimum.
Speaker 3: I'll be upset.
Speaker 1: I don't know how healthy Meltain is. I was kind
of hoping him or get GP two or D'Anthony Melton
would end up on the Knicks. It's just like guards
that can guard up Jordan Clarkson, who can't guard.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: There was a report today that the Warriors were looking
at Melton again. It seems seems like the like two
weeks he played for them last year, everybody was if.
Speaker 1: You guys, get Al Horford on the mini mL E
and D'Anthony Melton back on the minimum, I'm gonna be irate.
Speaker 2: You know, we're just a real privileged bunch out here.
We our money goes farther, except that it doesn't. Everything's
way too expensive here.
Speaker 1: Chris Paul, the Phoenix bells are kind of buzzing. And
I saw some people say, oh, he wants to start,
you can't sign him. I'm like, fuck, d you got Malawatch,
you got Mark Williams, you got like you need him
to spoon feed these guys like they shouldn't fall on
Devin Booker and definitely shouldn't fall on Jailen Green. Signed
Chris Paul and start him and then fix your turnover
problem again?
Speaker 2: Do you think the Lakers are just out for him
just because like, why do I want to play with
Luca and Lebron I don't get to do and Austin
Reeves is that what it's like he just won't get
to do his stuff there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't, and he wants to still be on
the Honestly, he wants to be on the West coast.
Like they did say they signed Dennis Ruder, so when
I was about to say the Kings, but like obviously
he's not gonna go back to the Warriors. The Clippers
don't make sense. If they have Beal, they could make
sense now, but they might not make sense anyway because
they have James Harden and Chris Paul and James Harden
don't seem to like each other. If he wants to
stay on the West Coast, it kind of feels because
he can't go back to the Spurs at this point, right,
look at all those young guards they have.
Speaker 3: I just you can't.
Speaker 2: You can't play him like you were talking earlier, Like
you just he's got to be out of the way
so those younger guys can play.
Speaker 1: I can't think of like any team that's even like
West Coast adjacent, like.
Speaker 2: That would be Portland is on the West coast technically.
Speaker 1: CP three would be badass though.
Speaker 2: Sure, but like he's your third point guard now, Like
I just I don't know I don't know how that works.
I mean, like Utah is not on the west coast,
but it's in the neighborhood. If you're considering Phoenix and
like' why is he's not going to Utah? So I
don't know, let's keep moving west. Does he want to
go to Dallas?
Speaker 1: Maybe? I don't know.
Speaker 3: They got to Angela.
Speaker 1: Russell h Cody Martn is not really a guard, but
I threw him on here books. I think any team,
if he's healthy, should just give him him in a
moment and let him cook. So much does Russ? Where
does Russ go?
Speaker 3: Man?
Speaker 2: I mean talk about someone that we're nearing the end
of the of, like the line of like I think
he could help. I have no idea. I haven't even
heard anything rumored. Didn't didn't he get like some crazy
offer overseas or something like that?
Speaker 1: I thought that was proven to be false. I can't
I can't remember.
Speaker 3: Probably too crazy.
Speaker 1: Then I don't have a good team for him like that.
That would just be like I don't think maybe Miami,
like could Miami to Miami could probably talk themselves in
the mall or Russ?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, like the Knicks have no.
Speaker 1: Not with after Clarkson, they were not with him, maybe.
Speaker 3: You would have had a discussion if Clarkson weren't there. Yeah,
I don't know. It's it's not good. I mean he's
not an easy fit.
Speaker 1: Could Atlanta be a destination obviously, again, Chris Paul wants
to be not once apparently being on the West coast
like they have Trey Young and then is it Kobe
Buffkin time. I know Nikhil Alexander Walker can do some stuff,
but in terms of just managing.
Speaker 2: A game, and Kennard a little bit too, Like, yeah.
Speaker 1: That's true. Yeah, I mean you're not gonna start in
Atlanta though, like Trey Young is there, You're not starting
in Atlanta for any of it.
Speaker 2: I really struggle, like unless you go to a bad team,
Like I mean, you could make the case that like
you could justify starting him over Shrewder if the Kings
were like had had a choice of like who who
they would have who they could have added.
Speaker 3: Like, I don't know, Paul might just be better than
Shrewder next year.
Speaker 2: It's possible, depends on which version of sure you get.
Speaker 1: What about Milwaukee? They could probably start any of Like
I mean, maybe.
Speaker 3: Who's got who's got the ball there?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 3: KPJ or Ryan Rollins? Like those are your lead guards.
Speaker 1: To be Ryan Rollins? I think I know KPJ was
good for them, but in terms on league guard, I
think I would prefer even Brogden.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just saying, like I know people like Rollins,
but but like if you're looking for a place where
you could imagine Paul or Russ or whoever like playing
quite a bit, that's a good start. Like, you know,
that's a team that wants to win, would take a
veteran and just you can't say that their point guards
are well established.
Speaker 1: There's been some people in the chat we saw the
Pelicans floating around for any of these guys. I guess
just you have Jordan Poole and Jeremiah Fears there, And
what if de Jonta Murray plays again this year.
Speaker 2: On the same team as like Derek Queen, he's.
Speaker 1: The ball in his hands too. Oh god, yeah, that
would be won.
Speaker 2: He's gonna need his touches also, team option right on that,
I can hear that deal doesn't make you feel any better.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fine, Like I won't penalize the Pelicans for that,
then I thought they guaranteed it, which is also why
I missed WOJ because I feel like we used to
get the contract details better when it was him breaking
news rather than Shams, So shout out Woch for being
more accurate. I don't think Landry Shammy feels like he
had some really good moments in the playoffs for the Knicks.
I wouldn't mind if they brought him back, but as
a shooter at the minimum who tries on defense a
lot of I don't know if teams are waiting on
some of the RFA business to finish up, because like
everyone who's like really really good is already signed, but
like these guys, if they're healthy, pretty much every guy
in this list could really I know, Russell Westbrook's a
wild card, Delan Right maybe aged out, even Ben Simmons.
I'm just surprised that these guys haven't had flyers taken
on them yet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Chris Paul back to the thunder, just just why not?
Speaker 1: Yeah, they have all this, They can play five point
cards at once at that point, Caruso at center, I suppose.
Speaker 3: He could do it.
Speaker 1: So Grant, my question to you is are you ready
to play the rookie extension game.
Speaker 3: Yes, I am.
Speaker 1: So, we're just gonna go through these already rapid fire
notable names or eligible frikie extensions. We just want to
know if we think they're gonna get one or not.
Are you ready?
Speaker 3: I'm ready?
Speaker 1: First one up oh Chi Boji in Toronto.
Speaker 2: I mean we have even talked terms on him. I
think I was on the high end.
Speaker 3: Uh I.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna change my guess because I did predict he
would get one and it'd be at least ten million
a year, maybe fifteen. But now with Ujiri out and
everybody's dumping on the Raptors because they have all these
like decent guys, and Barnes is better than that, but
a lot of guys locked into money. The ceiling feels low.
The floor feels like I don't know sorda high so
I don't see it for him anymore.
Speaker 3: What do you think?
Speaker 1: I don't know either. It feels like they're kind of
a franchise that's like in transition, but also weight and
NOI there was conducive to an extension if he was
willing to sign for like four and sixty though I
would probably pounce on it. I'm not gonna lie. I
think that highly of him, and if I'm a team
and he doesn't assign extension, I'm calling to see what
it takes to get him. Next up, we have Christian Brown.
Speaker 2: Hmmm, I could see him getting uh, like not Jalen
Green annual money, but like a two plus one that
that is gonna get like a twenty twenty twenty five
a year. Maybe what do you think about that?
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I think I think he's gonna
sign an extension, and I think it's gonna be like
close to an average annual value of twenty five million
dollars a year. And if it's two plus one, I
hope people are gonna be pretty hard on Dever's front
office because they're just begging for trouble at the end
of that contract. End.
Speaker 2: I mean, is he so good that you gotta just
lock him down for four years?
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't at four and a hundred if
he was one of this I like Grant it's he
did some really nice offensive stuff without Yokic on the
court this year, but just as someone who's able to
play off Yo Kic and plays his ass off on defense,
like that's the type of play and probably hits just
enough threes or gives you just enough offense. But if
they don't, if they don't.
Speaker 2: Extend, yeah, twenty five years, like eleven percent of the
cap or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think if I was to set it
at twenty three million dollars per year over under, I
think I'll take the over.
Speaker 2: I'm just never gonna get over the rising doll Like
twenty three million seems like too much to me.
Speaker 3: But but you're right, it's just like that's just what
it used to be. Fourteen, you know, think of it
as fourteen.
Speaker 1: So do you think he gets an extension?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, why not?
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say yes as well. So I think we're
gonna we're in lockstep so far right now, Next up
we'll stick with the nuggets. Peyton Watson also extension eligible.
Speaker 2: Hmmm, you'd liked my knee jerk reaction? Is no, I
most maybe part of it's because I don't know what
I value him as, Like what like what okay, we
kind of landed on a Christian brown figure, Like what
is Watson worth?
Speaker 3: I have no idea.
Speaker 1: I just don't think he's shown enough consistency on the
offensive end to be in the like, like, may do
you what you give him? The Patrick Williams deal five
for not five, but let's say like at that at
like eighteen million of years at too high.
Speaker 3: I think it is because I have no idea.
Speaker 2: I think like that's I don't know, but in a
couple of years, that's gonna be mid level money basically,
like I don't know if he's I mean, he's maybe
a mid level guy. I wouldn't say that he's shown
it yet.
Speaker 1: My gut says he won't get an extension because he'll
like he might be one of those guys that think
like a Kaminga type where it's not doesn't have that
level of self confidence and we don't see him grousing
as much as Kaminga does. But he just can see
himself in a different situation and where he saw what
they did to Michael Porter Junior, where it's like they
scaled down his role and paid him anyway. If they're
not doing that to him, he might just roll it
into restricts because he's the type of player that if
you have cap space next year, which the Nets still could,
there's these other teams that are set up to have it,
like you could throw like there'll be a team that
I think they might even That's the thing we talk
about RFA is like let them go to restricted freegency
and just match. But if they signed a two plus
one offer sheet, okay, but then they hit, you have
like a Gordon Hayward situation like Udah did a few years.
But sure, yeah, uh whoops, We're gonna have to speed
through this because I lost our place on the thing there.
It is, Okay, Christian Brown, Peyton Watson, who's next? Grant
Dyson Daniels.
Speaker 3: Hmm, I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think I feel like he's
someone that you should as the Hawks be okay messing
around with restricted free agency on maybe if he has
another year like this one, they'll regret it.
Speaker 3: But I don't know, Like, is he a twenty five
million dollars a year guy? That feels a little much
to me.
Speaker 1: I think because of how well he played, you can't
sign him because you need him to prove it for
another year, because he might look at whatever Christian Brown
gets and be like, I want more than that. And
I don't know that I could commit like twenty five
plus million dollars a year. I'd be more like if
if the same deals on the table for Christian Brown
or Diyce and Daniels, who are you taking? Like who
are you more comfortable paying? Is Christian Brown? Right? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think so, just larger sample, like done it at
a higher competitive.
Speaker 1: The other thing is and this might be a galaxy brain,
but if they don't sign him to an extension, it
makes it easier to include him in a trade. Should
they decide to go get Yannis?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Next up we have two Pistons. We begin with
Jail and Duran. I have no I hope you have
an answer.
Speaker 2: So I don't, and that's why I.
Speaker 3: Lean towards no extension.
Speaker 2: I feel the same way about Ivy, except Ivy also
has the like, well, what's he gonna look like post
injury this season? So you definitely don't extend him now
because who knows unless in both cases put the caveat
on all these that it's like, well, unless the team
can do it at a rate that's like offensively low,
like of course, you know, but like what if you're
Duran or your Ivy, I don't think the Pistons are
going to offer you a number that you say, like
I must take that now, and I don't think the
Pistons are like, these guys are so critical to the operation,
we can't let them hit restricted free agency.
Speaker 1: I think if I don't think he gets one, because
it's like you said, if he does get one, I
think it's so team friendly. And I don't know what
that means, because if I'm the Pistons, I think four
for eighty would make me sit there and be like,
I don't know if I could do that right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the center of it all being the center position
is and it's just like and that's not.
Speaker 1: One that's gonna get you know, like overwhelmed with offer
sheets and streat like you're not gonna get a ton
offer sheets for cent. We don't see first all, we
don't see offer sheets at the case in point this summer.
I haven't seen some one for center specifically, you're not
gonna have to worry about offer sheets for Yeah. I
think that's right, Je and Ivy. So what is the number?
Is there like a number like would he have to
if he said four for eighty or you know you're
not doing that either.
Speaker 2: I think he's looking at that and saying, like Jalen
Green gotten more than that over three years, I'm as
good as Jalen Green. So no, I don't think he's
taking that. And I don't think Detroit. I don't think
Detroit should offer him the Jalen Green extension.
Speaker 3: I don't. I just like we don't know, like.
Speaker 2: How many years we still don't know if Jade and
Ivy is Like, is that the guy you want next
to Kaide?
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I still don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm leaning towards probably not, but like I'd be happy
if he proved that he was. And I'm the Pistons
and I have restricted rights on him for next summer.
Speaker 3: That's a good situation.
Speaker 1: I'm with you. I don't think he gets one either.
Tar Easan, who I apparently want to be think I
outright just predicted, is going to be traded.
Speaker 2: I again, well, the Rockets have done some extending, so
factor that in I say no for him too, and
the logic is going to keep repeating itself.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't know that he's the type of player that
is gonna just like get massive restricted free agent offers.
So there's a chance you could bring him back for
relatively little, And I don't think he's going to agree
to a blow market extension now because he's probably confident,
and he has.
Speaker 3: The right to be.
Speaker 1: I actually disagree with you that I think there would
be a team if he hits restricted free agency that
will give him a crap ton of money. There's the
injury history and the minutes totals, I guess might give
them pause. And he's a little bit old, like for
what it will be twenty five if he was to
become a restricted free agent. But like, I'm also wondering, though,
did the Jabari Smith junior extension set any kind of
precedent to where so he's gonna start. He still starts
at twenty one million dollars a year. If you're Tari Easton,
so good. If you're Tar Easton, are you asking for
more than that?
Speaker 3: Or is?
Speaker 1: And if you're not, like if you're the Rockets, you're
gonna lock him down on twenty something million dollars a year.
I this is interesting because I think that his archetype
as a player, all he does best. If you told
me he was playing thirty one minutes a game or something,
that's someone that's gonna get like og Annobie money, I think.
Speaker 2: But because he doesn't, I was gonna ask you, like,
who give me a cump of like who is Tari Easton?
Similar to that has gotten really paid and so Ogi
is a big name to throw out there. Do you
think he's on OG's like, he's that type of play.
Speaker 1: Can't guard all five positions defensively, but probably he's gonna
force more turnovers and be more disruptive that way from
the perimeter.
Speaker 2: Can he be on the floor, because Og is a
guy that's like, yes, hard, yes, he can be on
the floor at the end of of whatever playoffs your game?
Speaker 1: What is your cause for pause with Ethan?
Speaker 3: His offense, his offensive game, But I mean, like.
Speaker 1: What about it? He's not high enough volume from three,
You don't trust him put the ball on the floor yet.
Speaker 3: A little bit of everything.
Speaker 2: I think he's just someone that if you're scheming against
a postseason opponent, you're like, we're gonna let Easton try
to beat us. We're not gonna guard him, honestly, We'll
have to keep him off the boards, I guess. But
like I I would hesitate to just to use the
Smith comparison. I think Smith might have more defensive value
because he could play center. That's that's a hard debate.
But offensively, it's like, well, he's a full stretch and
he can kind of shoot over guys, and like there's
I don't think Jabari Smith is someone opposing defenses will
be like, wow, we don't need to worry about him,
especially if he improves like Ethan. That that's why I
was asking for a comp and that's why I'm hesitant
to say there's gonna be a team that's like, oh, yes, absolutely,
we need to pay this guy just because he's not
I mean, I don't know, for lack of a better term,
he's not like weakness free enough.
Speaker 3: Yeah that makes sense. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just look at him what he could do defensively
and even just as a rebounder too.
Speaker 2: A lot of strengths, you're not wrong, a lot of
real pluses.
Speaker 1: So it was why I was actually gonna be real
up the same why so says in the chat Patrick
Lolliams probably said a precedent for players like Eastan. I
don't think the Rockets risk it. That seems smart, but like, yeah,
if you're to Eastan and Patrick Lean's got an eighteen
million dollars, like that is the that's the floors.
Speaker 2: Ever Reguard going like, well, look what Quickly got from
the from the Raptors.
Speaker 3: I need at least thirty two a year, Like if.
Speaker 1: I atly got that, I don't know if he gets
an extension, And I don't think it has anything to
do with the Rockets not wanting to keep him. And
they are ways. We didn't know about the Dorny from
Smith deal until couple of days ago that it wasn't
non guaranteed, So there are ways that they're you know,
some of their contracts are gonna age out as these
other guys are continuing to get expensive. He's just a
tough one because I also think what we neglect to
talk about is a lot of people seem to think
that and we're actually gonna get to this in a second,
that star trades are gonna happen more mid season than
over the offseason now, and if you're gonna do that,
you've already kind of you can still make it work.
I want to be clear. But like Jabari Smith junior
poison pilled, I guess because you have Fred van Fleet,
like he'll eventually be trade eligible, but right now he's not.
But if you also poison pill Tari Easton. Yeah, like,
what are you just saying all the young players we
ship out, It's not gonna be on men Thompson. So
then it's read Shepherd. How much do the Bucks want him?
If it's be honest or another player. So I'm wondering
if unless he's willing to sign just a deal that
they like the Patrick, like, if he comes in and
says that he wants four for seventy five and on
the rockets, like, I am making sure he signs that
before he comes to his senses personally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good I even me, I'm lower on
him than you are, but I'm not low on him.
Speaker 3: I'm good with that number. That's tradable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I don't know. I'm gonna say. I'm gonna
say he gets one just because the Jabbari Smith junior deal.
It's they could play point. I don't feel good. I'm
just gonna say he gets one. They might prefer it's
just like, well it's drama free. Then if we make
a movement season, it's because Johannis demanded a trade to
us and we traded Jane Gooon or something. I don't know.
So yeah, I feel that's the worst one. I feel
about though, all right, chet Holm, Grin Grant and are
you is it weird? We haven't heard about the extension
of Chet and j Dub when Shay got his.
Speaker 2: A little bit, I still think you just they both Chet,
I'm sure Jadub's next year.
Speaker 3: I think I think they're both getting it.
Speaker 2: I like, I think they're both maxed. I think they're
both getting maxes. And if they don't, like we should
be celebrating the thunder because that's then unbelievable coup, right,
Like I guess quibble overplayer options maybe, but like they
got to get max offers.
Speaker 1: I think they'll get if if you had seen that,
like Shay took less than the super Max, I would
have started to say, like, oh, what is going on here?
Like are they all gonna take a little less. It's
because Brian Taporak, our colleague of Bleach Report, has pointed
out that the money is so much right, like you
said it before, you can't get over like twenty five
million versus its percentage of the salary cap. He really
believes the money's gonna get so ridiculous that players eventually
aren't gonna care. But we've also yet to see that
do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: That's a I mean that would what does that mean?
Speaker 3: Like how ridiculous?
Speaker 2: Guys are just gonna be like what's the difference between
four hundred and twenty million and three hundred and eighty
million like that kind.
Speaker 1: Of thing, Like look at the Yokic extension he's gonna
sign next summer, Like there's gonna be a point where
he hits like eighty million bucks in salary. It's like
it's some It's just like if he signs the max
that is.
Speaker 2: I I mean, I just it's hard for me to
imagine that if you if you have some, you always
want more, Like that's just because and you can be
like that guy's making more, I'm as good as him.
Speaker 1: I exists for that reason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say, like, who who is ever
that's made that much money?
Speaker 3: Is like I'm good, I don't.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's I guess it happens like you know,
Warren Buffett's given it to charity, but whatever. Yeah, Like
I would assume do you think the Thunder will be
able to get straight five from Chet and Jada or
do you think there's gonna be options.
Speaker 1: With so with Chet? I think that he's not gonna
get a player option. He'll be maxed out. Maybe it's
only four, maybe it's five. I think it's gonna be
five with no player option. For j dub I think
he has the leverage to get a player option. But
just because of who the Thunder are as a team,
I almost predict that he's gonna sign a MAX without
a player option. Yeah, but also for them, and you're
looking at Palo getting one, you might just prefer having
the optionality of why I can get paid more right
at the end of this by opting out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a guy that like Chet's a little different,
won the injuries and two like, look, big wings that
can handle the ball and score always gonna be just
like the premium asset. Jadab is the guy that's like,
if you mess around at all, like teams will swoop,
Like every every team in the league is like, we
would pay that guy the max.
Speaker 1: Next up Nikoliovic in Miami. I just included this because
I think he's not gonna get one, just because it
seems like they're gaming their books, and also he's probably
less important now than this time last year with the
emergence of Khalil Ware and you have them Adebayo.
Speaker 2: Right, and and Powell gives you shooting like and part
of the appeal of Yovic, even though it's a different
position and theoretically more valuable because he's kind of a
big is the shooting potential there. Yeah, it seems like
Miami's not not going down that road.
Speaker 1: This one's at Walker Kessler in Utah's fascinating.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Like I think, well, maybe is the question
is the right question? Is he more valuable now or
post extension as a trade piece?
Speaker 1: What do you? I think he's more valuable post extension
at this point. I mean because schmid Dua, who have
all the respect in the world for was talking about
how the Pelicans he covers the Pelicans were in the No,
he just does a great job there. Everybody we're talking
about how if he were the Pelicans, he would continue
to they've already made their bed now you line it.
But like he was saying, trade another unprotected first round
pick and X to go get Walker Kessler. And so
he views him as justin the metrics do too. It's
just sort of like this maybe generational rim type protector.
And so if I'm the Jazz, I probably prefer extending
him and like what, I don't know what he gets,
Like now, yeah, if he wants like five for one
point fifty, then we need to have a conversation. But
if it's four for one hundred or four for ninety
or something or five for one hundred, whatever, it is,
like you probably have to pounce there, right.
Speaker 2: I think four for one hundred, I'm doing it. If
I'm Utah, if I'm Kessler, I think I probably am
doing that too.
Speaker 3: Just I'm sure he should.
Speaker 2: Be advised by his agents, like you're a non stretch,
non switch center, like this is kind of the best,
the best you can do, and just hope, hope you
find a team that loves you as much as the
Raptors love YAKA Perl, and you could just keep signing
extensions there forever. I think I think if you go
above a hun of like twenty five a year for Kessler,
you're kind of asking for it a little bit, just
because like he's never played in an environment where winning
mattered as an NBA player, Like he does have real limitations.
He has like a couple of superpowers. So that's that's
how you get to the hundred million. And I think
he's tradable add or below that number after above that
you like.
Speaker 3: Is Nick Claxton tradeable right now? Like for positive value? Like,
uh not that dissimilar? Probably Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: He's more switchaball on defense too, And I think you
could argue Nick Claxton has more offensive upside.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's I didn't even.
Speaker 1: You know what. That's a great comp that's probably been
a very different player.
Speaker 2: But it's like with centers, you can't, like it's not
that easy to move them if you're if they're even
a little too expensive.
Speaker 1: But I think also with the Jazz is like, all right,
well what is their big man situation? Now? Like they
he really is the only true center because it's just
like Philipowski marketing, Like those guys aren't set. You got
rid of John Collins who wasn't a center, so they
have Mobamba's cap hold. Does that do anything for you Hendrix?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 1: Not?
Speaker 2: Only thought Hendricks would be like a potential small ball five.
I don't think that's happening anymore.
Speaker 1: H Why so want you to stop using the Raptors
an example for bad signing. I just wonder why they're
so obsessed with Yako per All or Jacob Puddle, as
someone called him once. Our next guy up is Benedict Mathrin.
Can I answer this one please? If I'm him, I'm
not said, I an't an extension that they're gonna offer
me because I'm about to eat without Tyree's Halbert in
there next year? Right?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean that the expression on his face in the
graphic you have is correct, like he's pumped, like that
guy kind of gets some shots.
Speaker 1: Up and they already ruled him out for the season.
That Kevin Pritchard rules him out. Yeah you can't. I
don't know what unless they're gonna come and be like,
hey for for one hundred. That probably gets you thinking.
But as India, I'm almost i'mmost like, well, I can't, man.
Speaker 2: I mean he can average twenty five a game like
no problem. Uh And and then he's like, you're gonna
pay me thirty million a year, like that's just what
it is?
Speaker 3: Like I again, like, I don't.
Speaker 1: Is that is that Bobby Webster probably.
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Like yeah, I I I don't know what the number
is that the one the Pacers will be willing to
pay him, because clearly the ceiling on Miles Turner is
twenty two a year, So I don't know how Mathering
gets twenty five.
Speaker 1: Man John Hollinger brought up. I actually thought he was
too hard on them for extending Andrew Nemhart early. But
now in hindsight that's too and now I'm like, no,
John Hollinger was right. That was they could have kept
Turner and like they could have just moved their business downwards.
So yeah, I don't think. I don't think they're gonna
give him a competitive offer. And if they do, maybe
they would value the certainty of oh, we know he's
going to be twenty two million dollars or whatever next year,
so we plan our books around that. But I don't
think they're very much like they have to figure out
how Tyre's Halburtn's rehab is going. They're not gonna have
a good hold on that by like opening night. Yeah,
I agree, our next guy up. I believe it is
like our second to last guy, Shade and Sharp. This
is an impossible one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've used it several times, but I think more
than any other player, the Jalen Green model applies to him.
If you're if you're Portland and you're trying to not
give him a four year deal or not give him
some crazy amount of money. I start with the Jalen
Green comp and say, this is kind of where we're at,
and even that I'm not super comfortable with, just because again,
not a lot of winning. Don't know about the defense,
don't know about the ability to dribble the ball, like
there's there's real questions. So I'm not I'm not rushing
into this. If I'm Portland, I don't know what the
number would be other than just using the Green thing
and downgrading it.
Speaker 1: I E not, Yeah, I can't give him thirty million dollars.
If he twenty feels like that would be the number,
I'd be like.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, twenty's a chance.
Speaker 2: That's a steal, right like if he if he but
thirty is almost like if he is a borderline All Star,
You're like, he's more or less properly paid at thirty.
Speaker 1: They just put the baby and go for twenty five,
like we just have.
Speaker 2: I guess I don't think. I don't think that's getting done.
I think it's the Blazers seem to be serious about
trying to win this year, and maybe I think maybe
you learn more about Sharp this season than you have
in his previous years combined, and then you can make
that decision.
Speaker 1: I am noticing though, like just the level of perimeter
players who are kind of wings like in there. It
does should It could get interesting next year, depending on
how many of these guys are.
Speaker 2: Actually still there, right, Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: Our final one Jeremy Sohan of the San Antonio Oh no,
we have two more. Sorry. Keigan Murray of the Sacramento Kings.
Speaker 2: I apologie, where has this extension been?
Speaker 3: Like, they love the guy, he's he's.
Speaker 1: Mort had said he wouldn't give him twenty million dollars
a year. I'm am I Keigan Murray pilled. Yeah, like
I'm giving him thirty.
Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm thirty.
Speaker 1: I easily believe that the Kings, well maybe if he's
gonna be on the Kings, we have to talk about
different story. But I honestly believe that the ground shifting
beneath him constantly, like their offensive pecking order, it kind
of hurt his development. I look at what he's done defensively.
You're gonna tell me like, oh, yeah, he was able
to really develop defensively doing some of the backline stuff.
A lot of the perimeter stuff like, yeah, well we're
worried about that. He's not gonna be able to figure
it out on offense. No, if he, if i'm him,
I'm not signing an extension. But unless they're coming in
the right but if they come in at like no,
I didn't mean get out of there, but like I
think he did, he probably should want out. I'm not
gonna lie, but at twenty five million, twenty if I'm him,
my floor is twenty five million dollars a year in
an extension, Like that's what you have to give me.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think if you believe the defense.
Speaker 2: Now, the defense wasn't as good last year as it
was the year before, and the shooting wasn't as good
either of the last two years as it was as
a rookie. But like, somewhere in there is a forty
plus percent three point shooter that is is like not
quite all defense. But like, right there, twenty five is
not enough for that guy, especially given his his youth,
like and given the situation, like he's just not been
set up to succeed at all in any maybe as
a rookie, but he's a rookie, like he's you're just
way down the totem pole.
Speaker 1: And he's been like one of the if not the
single highest volume like contesting shots at the rim among
like wing type players, which is just not something he
was ever built to do coming out of this.
Speaker 2: No, and just like eminently portable. I think you can
still scale him up. There's been a lot of talk
about how like this guy just like they've had to
beg him to shoot, But it's like, all right, so
he's unselfish, Like that's the best.
Speaker 3: That's the biggest knock you have.
Speaker 2: I think he fits anywhere, Like, yeah, this he's he's
he could be a thirty million dollar player, like I think,
I think that's not ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Now we're on to Jeremy so Han of the San
Antonio Spurs. I don't think he gets one, not even
know what I'd be prepared to give him.
Speaker 2: To because zero idea of like what kind of offensive
player he'll ever be, if anything. And yeah, like I
just I don't there's not a team out there that's like,
we're a Jeremy so Han away type of thing.
Speaker 3: Restricted free agency.
Speaker 1: I think it's like you don't really want the ball
in his hands now unless he's gonna be in transition,
and I think they figured out some stuff over the
past two seasons with him. But he's like a play
finishing wing basically, And so I don't know what you
pay that. I'd probably do. May Holy shit, I give
him eight million dollars a year or max for what
that's that's not even the room exception anymore.
Speaker 2: Right, No, man, Keegan Murray had low balled out here.
Oh maybe maybe eight million of maxes for so Han.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: That's what I thought it was. If it was if
it was for Keegan Murray, even like you're hoping you
are you hoping your team get Yeah, I don't think
so Han gets one. But I wouldn't like especially they're
bringing in other bigs around Wenby Now you want I don't.
That's yeah, all right, that's so hand. We clarified in
the chattick. I assumed it was if it was Keegan Murray,
I had. I had many questions. Yeah, I don't. I
think if he was want to sign for like mid
level money, I'd probably just do it because it's not
going to turn into a Zeke Nachi situation like that's
still gonna be someone who would have value as a
standalone piece.
Speaker 2: I guess he's got some utility. He's not an easy
fit though anywhere. Like so, if you're talking about the
tradeability of a con of his contract, I just I
don't know. Maybe maybe maybe he'll there'll emerge like some
at the shooting. I just don't ever see it. But
maybe I don't know, maybe the point guard thing emerges.
Who knows, Maybe there's some offensive utility in there beyond
just slashing.
Speaker 1: Next up Mark Williams, who I believe is actually our
final one now with the Suns. For anyone didn't know it,
I mean this, I I this is now a million
dollars a year. Might have been closer to like more.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not extending him. I'm if he becomes a
free agent, I'll deal with it. Like I just like,
what why.
Speaker 1: What if he says four for forty eight.
Speaker 2: For like the twentieth best, twenty fifth best center. I
don't know where he's somewhere in there. If you factor
in durability, he's maybe in the top thirty.
Speaker 1: Does it worry you at all if he ends up
like CP three's on this team and so you know
his numbers are going to be inflated next year. It's
just you have Malawatch year. I wouldn't extend him.
Speaker 3: I was no.
Speaker 2: I think I think the hope is like, you get
to the end of the season, it's like, we don't
need this guy at all. We'll just go get a
minimum center because Malawatch looks like he's that good and
he's our starter.
Speaker 1: Right, so let me give up a first round pick
to get him? Was number twenty nine? That deal?
Speaker 2: My brain is yeah, I think that's right, but I
don't know some cost.
Speaker 1: We have one final question that I need to ask you, Grant.
They say the NBA offseason is not complete until we
get a post draft blockbuster trade. Will we get one?
Speaker 2: I think I'm gonna say yes, And the reason I
will is because I like a couple guys on this
list here as pretty decent trade candidates, Michael Bridges being one,
Simon's being one. Those are probably two of the lower
end guys on here. The Kings have three guys in Sibonis,
DeRozan Levigne that are big enough names that I think
one of them could move. The absolute biggest names on here,
not so sure, but I think we got a shot
at three or four of these guys.
Speaker 1: I almost I'm gonna say yes just to manifest it
because this off season has been pretty bad and I
know't there's been responsible Oh no, people have to watch games,
and no we don't because there's no games going on
right now outside of Summer League, So I want these.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: Is that is that something people are saying to like
look down on people that care about the NBA because
of the transactions and like the fantasy sports part of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is just like you as long as it's
not you're not promoting tousicity. You follow the game however
you want. I enjoy all different elements of it when
there's actual, meaningful basketball to be played. Yeah, games are
freaking cool and I don't want to write about trades
and legacies, but there's no basketball going on right now.
And look, the players miss it, like Draymond Green made
that like they remember them active on Twitter, like I don't.
The halcyon days of free agency, like this is why
my old man yellsick clown like clown. Yeah, clowns.
Speaker 2: Stop yelling at clowns all the time, Dan.
Speaker 1: Old man, old man yells aick cloud things like I
just miss when the off season was just like from
we were held hostage from July first, unto like July tenth.
Speaker 3: I can't say I miss.
Speaker 1: That so much, but it was I don't I don't care.
Speaker 2: It was exciting, I guess, yeah, okay, so I'll just
I know we didn't talk about this between So Yannis
not going anywhere?
Speaker 1: Do you? So? Do you do you actually think that, well,
like just.
Speaker 2: As far as this offseason, yeah, I do.
Speaker 1: Maybe so I think that the Bucks had intel that
he would stay if they got Miles Turner. Yeah, yeah,
I think that's fair. But the Ramona Shellbourne reporting that
Jannis is like gonna make his decision in August or September,
I like to think that Yanis just likes to hold
everybody else hostage so that they don't make moves because
they think they have a shot at him, only for
him to stay. So I kind of agree with you,
but I'm just like, if he actually wants to contend,
I don't see. And again, if I'm the Bucks, I'm
not moving him until he asks for it. I want
to make that clear. But I don't see the pathway.
And by the way, you don't move him like proactively
because you don't have your own picks, and there's no team,
not even the Hawks could give you back multiple of
your own pick like they can, sort of like twenty
twenty seven's the New Orleans gets the more favorable of
its owner Milwaukee's. So it's just like not unless he
asked for it. I'm just not I don't know that's
I think. I'll say it this way. Who do you
think has a better chance of being moved this off season?
Giannis or Lebron Lebron?
Speaker 2: I mean, like, and I agree with what you said.
I think the Bucks are not going to contend, But
I think Joannis if that were, if that were the issue,
like they weren't going to contend last year like this
and these came, you know, even with a healthy Dame.
Speaker 3: I didn't like the odds.
Speaker 2: So like, I think I don't think he looks at
it quite that way. Or maybe he's like just because
it takes a certain level of irrational confidence to get
to where he and guys like him have gotten, Like
he just sees like, well, I'm on the team, so
of course we can contend. Like what are we talking about?
And I like it here, so I don't want to
be traded, you know, if if he were really looking
at it clear eyed in terms of like where is
the best place for me to win a title, It's
like he would have seen Milwaukee was not the answer
long long ago. That's that's clearly just not the only
thing he's thinking about.
Speaker 1: I also would I'm just gonna keep an eye on
anybody in Boston at this point, including Jalen Brown. And
I'm wondering if, like, if Dame signs there on the minimum,
do you think that means it more or less likely
that they would viewed as like not because if you're
gonna have Dame and Jason Tatum healthy the next year,
do you think they viewed as well Derek White and
r Jalen Brown are a little bit more expendable to
them to make a move now. Is the uncertainty of
those Achilles injuries just too much?
Speaker 2: That was, and just the Dame being that much older
and looking not quite like a superstar before that. Yeah,
I mean, I would, like look just pure cold logic,
like I would be trying to move Jalen Brown just
because I don't want the back end of that contract
and I don't think I don't think you're gonna win
another championship with the Tatum Brown pairing. I think if
it happens, it's Tatum and you've retooled everything around him, do.
Speaker 1: You want to be a wild trade because they make
and maybe there's like dollars and cents that I'm not
seeing when I'm looking at the sheet. Jalen Brown and
Karnthon Towns make the exact same amount of money next year,
and you would be getting one fewer year on the
Towns deal. You don't really have a center right now
in Boston. Is that like I'm assuming the Knicks have
to be the team or is it like that has
to attach picks to that, right? I mean Karnthon Town's
is he a little They're probably the same age. The
Knicks don't have picks, they have swaps and that fake
Wizards First, your.
Speaker 2: Get cat off my team agenda has been a parent
for some time, and.
Speaker 1: I think he's a really good basketball player that him
and Jalen Brunson. You're just not like defensively, you can't
make it work. And if the only way to make
it work is to play him with the Mitchell Robinson,
I think you new to a lot of the offensive
appeal is all that's true. So a final thing, who's
the most likely big name to be traded this summer?
It doesn't have to mean from this list, but.
Speaker 2: Oh well, I mean this list is pretty I'm not
seeing anybody. I mean, is is Kuminga.
Speaker 3: On this list? Probably not. I said big name in
his mind, he's the biggest. I'll just say I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think of the options here, I'll just say bridges
because I've kind of been kicking around the idea that
that that might happen. If the extension doesn't get done.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna manifest it because it would be absolute chaos.
I'm going to say Lebron Okay, not a crazy, No,
not crazy at all. This was great. We covered a
lot of ground.
Speaker 3: Everyone is yeah, what is crazy? Two hours almost and
a lot of people that were in the chat at
the beginning are still here.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Shout out anyway, if you made it through well one,
please throw alike onto the actual video and subscribe you
haven't already, and share our content. We appreciate it. But
shout out to everyone who listened to this live through
and through the live element is interesting. It's fun. I
like interacting with people in stream. It's also a lot
easier because now I can't I make mistakes. I can't
go back and fix, fix them and post like I
do normally. When we record, you're.
Speaker 2: Gonna be yelling at clowns forever. It's gonna be on
the internet for all time.
Speaker 1: Are you ready to take us out of here before
we hit the two hour mark?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Better hurry. Thanks everybody for listening, for watching. If you
dropped us a comment or chat, thank you appreciate it.
I hope we got to. I think we got everybody
that's in here just about we got to at least
one of them, So thanks for that. Join our discord
links for that in the YouTube and podcast description if
you'd like to keep chatting with us, odds are If
you're in here, probably you're already in our discord. Like
Dan said, if you've seen this on YouTube, hit that
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there as well. Wherever you're getting your podcast, rate review subscribe.
You all do all that stuff. Tell your friends, tell
your enemies. Shouts Frank Miilik, you an apologies.
Speaker 3: Jared Allen