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<v Speaker 1>This is Pod Popular Podcast for the People, The Great

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<v Speaker 1>Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate, the Great Love Debate.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a Great Love Deba.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi again, everyone's Brian Howie. Welcome to The Great Love Debate,

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<v Speaker 2>the world's number one dating and relations podcast since twenty fifteen.

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<v Speaker 2>I am here in the very fine studios of Pod

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<v Speaker 2>Popular Podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>For the People. I'm at the one uh just outside.

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<v Speaker 2>Of Cleveland Legacy Village where I could I could tell

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<v Speaker 2>you what time of year it is as I record this,

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<v Speaker 2>but I want to keep it ever green and vague,

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<v Speaker 2>so I'll just say that the weather is miserable outside.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you know Cleveland, that's pretty much covers everything

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<v Speaker 2>from October to June.

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<v Speaker 1>So take a guess. You got a pretty good shot

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<v Speaker 1>of hitting it.

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<v Speaker 2>Anyway, I don't have a guest today. Some of you

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<v Speaker 2>like that, some of you don't like that. Some of

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<v Speaker 2>you like, you know, when it's just me. Some of

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<v Speaker 2>you don't like just me. Some of you don't like me,

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<v Speaker 2>which is fine. That actually makes for better banter, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>say LEVI here on the shores of Lake Erie. I

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<v Speaker 2>can handle it, but this one's just kind of personal,

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<v Speaker 2>so I didn't want to have some random author on

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<v Speaker 2>here to be like, wait, why did you do that?

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<v Speaker 2>Because that didn't quite seem relevant and seemed a little

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<v Speaker 2>disingenuous and not fair to them. So an ex ex

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<v Speaker 2>ex girlfriend of mine, I don't know how far back

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<v Speaker 2>you have to go in the girlfriend pantheon to sort.

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<v Speaker 1>Of label how far back, but pretty pretty long ago.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm getting old.

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<v Speaker 2>She was in my twenties, so she's probably a Baker's

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<v Speaker 2>dozen serious girlfriends ago.

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<v Speaker 1>And she reached out to me out of the blue

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<v Speaker 1>the other day.

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<v Speaker 2>She sent me a message, and I had not spoken

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<v Speaker 2>to her in probably a decade, and I hadn't seen

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<v Speaker 2>her in probably twice that But she reached out because

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<v Speaker 2>she wanted to talk about my other podcast, Dead to Me,

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<v Speaker 2>an estrangement podcast, both to tell me that it was

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<v Speaker 2>good and to possibly be on it as a guest.

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<v Speaker 2>And I said, who are you estranged from? And I

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<v Speaker 2>knew she was never close to her dad since birth,

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<v Speaker 2>So I don't really consider that estrangement because the relationship

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<v Speaker 2>never really existed in the first place. If you never

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<v Speaker 2>really had an relationship, I don't think you're estranged from it.

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<v Speaker 2>He was kind of absent, and she said, no, my mom,

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<v Speaker 2>and she began to explain her very complicated and apparently

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<v Speaker 2>at times really angry relationship with her mother, who I

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<v Speaker 2>actually remember knowing pretty well, spending quite a bit of

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<v Speaker 2>time with. They had a nice summerhouse in the Hamptons,

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<v Speaker 2>it was lovely, and I remember liking her mother quite

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<v Speaker 2>a lot. And as she was explaining this relationship between

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<v Speaker 2>her and her mom, I began to thank Jesus, how

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<v Speaker 2>out of touch was I with this girlfriend who I

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<v Speaker 2>lived with and had somewhat of a life with as

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<v Speaker 2>much as you can in your twenties. And I had

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<v Speaker 2>no idea about any of this. So as she's telling me,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, did I not care? Did I not ask?

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<v Speaker 2>Did I not pay attention? Did she not feel close

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<v Speaker 2>enough or comfortable enough to even tell me any of this?

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<v Speaker 2>Or did she tell me any of this? And I

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<v Speaker 2>just didn't pay attention to it. And so randomly, while

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<v Speaker 2>she was telling me about her mom and the complicated

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<v Speaker 2>nature of it, I felt the need to apologize to her,

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<v Speaker 2>and I basically said, I think you were the one

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<v Speaker 2>who got the worst of me, at least as a boyfriend,

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<v Speaker 2>And that probably isn't true, I assure you.

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<v Speaker 1>I got way worse.

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<v Speaker 2>In subsequent relationships, you know, not because I was a jerker,

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<v Speaker 2>a cheat, or any of those things, mostly because I

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<v Speaker 2>think I just didn't care or didn't care enough, or

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<v Speaker 2>didn't care enough about them beyond you know, you're my

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<v Speaker 2>pretty girlfriend, and didn't care beyond like this is fun?

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<v Speaker 2>What are you upset about? I didn't care enough to

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<v Speaker 2>know them, to peel back the layers, to ask the questions,

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<v Speaker 2>and looking back and knowing how much I need that

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<v Speaker 2>now from people, from my partners, and knowing how much

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<v Speaker 2>I do that now. Thankfully, I'm constantly curious and trying

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<v Speaker 2>to learn and know and understand the woman I'm dating.

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<v Speaker 2>I just felt like, how much did I miss out

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<v Speaker 2>with these relationships and these mostly really great girls by

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<v Speaker 2>simply being out of touch. So again, as she's relaying this,

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<v Speaker 2>I probably fell back on old habits. As she was

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<v Speaker 2>explaining her situation, I suddenly, you know, consciously or subconsciously

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<v Speaker 2>made it about me and how I felt. So the

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<v Speaker 2>conversation got off track. She will be coming on dead

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<v Speaker 2>to me, so follow that podcast. But it got me

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<v Speaker 2>thinking about this conversation, the one I'm having and want

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<v Speaker 2>to have with you, guys today are our partners and

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<v Speaker 2>have our partners present in past gotten the best of

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<v Speaker 2>you or at least the best at that moment? And

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<v Speaker 2>how important is that in the greater context of making

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<v Speaker 2>a relationship work? And last, so you know, as I've learned,

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<v Speaker 2>when you go to therapy, you go to therapy, They're

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<v Speaker 2>not going.

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<v Speaker 1>To give you answers.

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<v Speaker 2>They're going to try and lead you down a path

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<v Speaker 2>to find those answers. That's what I'm gonna do today.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think there is an easy answer for this,

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<v Speaker 2>but I do want to explore it a bit from

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<v Speaker 2>a few different angles because it's complicated. You know, a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit of me sort of talking through this out

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<v Speaker 2>loud in real time, but I want you guys to

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<v Speaker 2>kind of do the same thing. But I got to

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<v Speaker 2>take a quick break at a deep breath because I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know where this is going to go. And we

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<v Speaker 2>will be back right after this, and we are back,

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<v Speaker 2>So what is the very best of you? Because obviously

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<v Speaker 2>we're all works in progress and the very best has

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<v Speaker 2>probably hopefully definitely yet to be realized. But if you

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<v Speaker 2>suddenly right here in a moment, you hit the buzzer

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<v Speaker 2>like on that uh, what's that old game show with

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<v Speaker 2>the whammy? I'm probably dating myself a bit here, press

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<v Speaker 2>your luck. Actually, come to think of it, I think

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<v Speaker 2>that old show is back on ABC now, Like every

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<v Speaker 2>old show is hosted by Strayhan or Seacrest or Steve

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<v Speaker 2>Harvey or someone Elizabeth Banks. Somebody just said, Elizabeth Banks,

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<v Speaker 2>it's on anyway. If you hit the button and you

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<v Speaker 2>froze it? What version of you is someone getting? And

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<v Speaker 2>I think all you can really ask for and hope

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<v Speaker 2>for is that it is a better version than it

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<v Speaker 2>was a month ago, or a year ago, or a

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<v Speaker 2>relationship ago.

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<v Speaker 1>But if you were real, I don't know at best self.

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<v Speaker 2>Centered aloof emotionally distant shithead like like twenty six year

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<v Speaker 2>old or thirty four year old Brian Howie. Is the

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<v Speaker 2>shift incremental and that matters? Or can it be seismic?

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<v Speaker 1>Can you just shed the skin and change things?

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<v Speaker 2>And we've had a lot of really important and smart

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<v Speaker 2>voices on the show over the years who talk about

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<v Speaker 2>how how to be better partners and the fundamentals, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>more empathetic, more attentive, is your partner being heard in

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<v Speaker 2>a moment or a situation and awesome that that's all correct,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm not dismissing any of that. And I've said

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<v Speaker 2>it before that I personally have gotten a million times better,

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<v Speaker 2>like I think in the top, you know, one percent

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<v Speaker 2>time in terms of expressing gratitude and remorse. There are

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<v Speaker 2>a whole lot of thank yous that I'm sorries that

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<v Speaker 2>come out of me these days, and not because anything

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<v Speaker 2>significant has changed behavior wise, like I don't need to

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<v Speaker 2>say these things, and not because I have bushels of them,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, saved up in star because I spent decades

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<v Speaker 2>not using them, but mostly because I feel things better.

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<v Speaker 1>And deeper and more often.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't think that comes from an increase in empathy,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, on that scale, I think you are who

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<v Speaker 2>you are. I think doing this show has made me

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<v Speaker 2>listen to a lot of voices more and figure out

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<v Speaker 2>what's important. I think the great love to be has mattered,

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<v Speaker 2>and so I have a unique advantage with that.

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<v Speaker 1>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's not so it's not empathy. I think it's curiosity.

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<v Speaker 2>And you guys know, I love that word and the concept.

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<v Speaker 2>To me, everything from the from the first date till

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<v Speaker 2>to death to us part is rooted in curiosity. The

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<v Speaker 2>desire to learn and share and grow and explore.

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<v Speaker 1>With another person.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think curiosity in this case we're talking about

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<v Speaker 2>here being the best version of yourself with your partner.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it comes from learning them and understanding them,

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<v Speaker 2>the curiosity, the questions why do they feel this way?

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<v Speaker 2>Why aren't I seeing what matters to them? What are

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<v Speaker 2>their past and present triggers and traumas, And how does

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<v Speaker 2>my behavior or lack thereof, or behaviors or communication or

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<v Speaker 2>lack thereof tapp into those triggers and traumas. So I

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<v Speaker 2>grant you, none of this is first date shit where

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<v Speaker 2>you're trying to negotiate the nacho toppings, so you don't

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<v Speaker 2>want to bring all that up then, But all of

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<v Speaker 2>it matters. I think I told a story once twice

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<v Speaker 2>on this podcast. I've done a lot of these podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know what I've told about. How I was

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<v Speaker 2>dating a girl for six months once and then I

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<v Speaker 2>suddenly mispronounced her last name, just didn't know it. So

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<v Speaker 2>she had this unusual Israeli I think it was Israeli name,

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<v Speaker 2>and I never heard her say it out loud before,

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<v Speaker 2>and I had never said it out loud before and

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<v Speaker 2>one night we're at a restaurant where she made the

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<v Speaker 2>reservation and the made her d asked and I boldly

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<v Speaker 2>blurted it out incorrectly, and she freaked the fuck out,

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<v Speaker 2>fucking freaked.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't even know my name, And she wasn't quite right.

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<v Speaker 1>I knew her name. I just didn't know how to

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<v Speaker 1>pronounce her name.

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<v Speaker 2>But she was right on the fact that I never

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<v Speaker 2>asked because I didn't care. She was super hot and

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<v Speaker 2>we were having fun, so who cares about her origin

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<v Speaker 2>or her family or her ethnic roots, right, it was exotic,

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<v Speaker 2>And that was my mistake, not the mispronunciation, because I

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<v Speaker 2>could give you the name and the spelling, so you

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<v Speaker 2>guys could be like, oh, I understand screwing that up.

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<v Speaker 2>That's weird, But to be honest, like, I still don't

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<v Speaker 2>know it, so I don't even want to say it

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<v Speaker 2>now in case she's listening, and I'll be like, he

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<v Speaker 2>fucker still doesn't know my name anyway. But that's my point,

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<v Speaker 2>and that was her point. Something as simple as that

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<v Speaker 2>totally wrecked the relationship because I was just doing enough

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<v Speaker 2>to get by. I didn't know because I didn't want

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<v Speaker 2>to know, or I didn't care. To know it didn't

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<v Speaker 2>matter exotic name, she had exotic eyes, cared about the

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<v Speaker 2>exotic eyes, which is and was a terrible job by me,

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<v Speaker 2>and as you can see, obviously not the best version

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<v Speaker 2>of me or anyone. I wouldn't do that now, somewhat

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<v Speaker 2>of a lesson learned, But I'm sure I do a

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<v Speaker 2>dozen other things that I need to be better on.

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<v Speaker 2>We all do, so yeah, I mean, if I'm looking

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<v Speaker 2>back on the one who called me, we can forgive

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<v Speaker 2>a whole lot of behaviors in our twenties because of

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<v Speaker 2>the of the blur of the buzz or whatever. So

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<v Speaker 2>if you're listening to me and you're twenty three, you're

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<v Speaker 2>off the hook on a lot of shit. But you

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<v Speaker 2>will have to get better, and you will have to

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<v Speaker 2>turn a bit of a corner in your thirties so

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<v Speaker 2>that by the time we turned that corner into real

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<v Speaker 2>adulthood and you can decide for yourself whenever that starts.

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<v Speaker 2>We really shouldn't have any more excuses. We should care

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<v Speaker 2>enough and be curious enough about them to do better

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<v Speaker 2>and be better for them and for the relationship. And

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<v Speaker 2>I've received calls like that from people I've dated ex girlfriends,

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<v Speaker 2>on the flip side, meaning they called me and said

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<v Speaker 2>I know I was difficult to date, or hey, I

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<v Speaker 2>know you tried. I was just a mess at the time,

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<v Speaker 2>and that call used to make me feel better because

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<v Speaker 2>I felt like it let me off the hook. I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, Aha, I knew it wasn't me.

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<v Speaker 1>She was just stressed out at work. I was wonderful.

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<v Speaker 2>But to be honest, now that I kind of know,

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<v Speaker 2>it probably wasn't true. Not that they, you know, were

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<v Speaker 2>a mess or shouldn't have made that call, but the

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<v Speaker 2>way I played a part in it, the best version

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<v Speaker 2>of me probably could have done more to create a

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<v Speaker 2>better version of her. So it's not my job or

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<v Speaker 2>your job, you know, to fix anyone, not completely. But

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<v Speaker 2>it was my job as a boyfriend and as a

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<v Speaker 2>partner and as a man to create an environment where

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<v Speaker 2>some degree of healing can at least start to take place,

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<v Speaker 2>or they at least feel safe enough and be vulnerable

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<v Speaker 2>enough to say, I'm struggling here. Can we work through

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<v Speaker 2>this together? Can you help me? Can we talk? And

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<v Speaker 2>if they, you know, weren't feeling that they could say

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<v Speaker 2>that or were in a place to say that, how

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<v Speaker 2>much of that was because I did not create an

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<v Speaker 2>environment where they could. So, you know, while it's probably

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<v Speaker 2>too late for the past relationships, I'm not saying you

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<v Speaker 2>should pick up the phone and call everybody ever dated. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you know you don't need to fire off

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<v Speaker 2>a text or do any of those things like they're

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<v Speaker 2>in the rear view mirror most of the time for

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<v Speaker 2>a reason. This is about the relationship you are in

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<v Speaker 2>now or the one you want to be in. Are

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<v Speaker 2>you in it or going into it with a version

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<v Speaker 2>of yourself that is the very best it can be,

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<v Speaker 2>or are we still falling back on old habits and

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<v Speaker 2>patterns and behaviors. I don't I don't want this to

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<v Speaker 2>sound all dating coachy because that is not what I

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<v Speaker 2>want to do and it drives me nuts.

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<v Speaker 1>And somebody's like, oh, you're a dating coach. No, I

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<v Speaker 1>am not, And I don't want to get to woo

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<v Speaker 1>woo therapy.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of this is coming from my own therapy,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm kind of relaying things questions that have been

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<v Speaker 2>raised in my sessions to you guys to save you

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<v Speaker 2>three hundred dollars, But because that's not what I do here,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not I'm not trying.

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<v Speaker 1>To be your guru.

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<v Speaker 2>We're all in this together, the same boat, the same

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<v Speaker 2>level of relationship competence or incompetence, we're all But I

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<v Speaker 2>think this is a valuable exercise to ask yourself these questions,

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<v Speaker 2>because I do that, to be curious about yourself, your mindset,

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<v Speaker 2>your behavior.

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<v Speaker 1>What are you doing? Can it be better?

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<v Speaker 2>And how close can you get to the best of

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<v Speaker 2>you so you can get the best of them, get

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<v Speaker 2>a much better shot of getting the best of them

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<v Speaker 2>if they're getting somewhat close to the best of you.

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<v Speaker 2>And a lot of these thoughts in my own head

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<v Speaker 2>are rooted in regret. And I used to say all

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<v Speaker 2>the time proudly, like I have no regrets because I

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<v Speaker 2>looked at what the outcome was for me. Of course

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<v Speaker 2>I have no regrets if the outcome was fine for me,

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<v Speaker 2>But what kind of trail of wreckage did I leave behind?

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<v Speaker 2>I bet those people have regrets. I bet those girlfriends

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<v Speaker 2>have regrets. I don't think they regret like, oh my god,

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<v Speaker 2>I think I wish I never met him or we

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<v Speaker 2>never dated. I think they regret like I wish things

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<v Speaker 2>things were better, And so I bet they think I

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<v Speaker 2>should have regrets and regrets aren't necessarily a bad thing.

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<v Speaker 2>That tends to be a bad word, you know, because

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<v Speaker 2>you're taking a moment or you're taking a temperature or

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<v Speaker 2>situation and thinking what could I do differently or better?

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<v Speaker 2>But you know, if you look at it that way,

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<v Speaker 2>not to change the outcome, but you look at it like,

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<v Speaker 2>what were the nuances and what were the decisions, and

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<v Speaker 2>what were the conversations, and what was my mindset to think?

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<v Speaker 2>How can I change the possibilities moving better? Because you

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<v Speaker 2>should learn from regret. How do I improve the chance

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<v Speaker 2>of things working out? The odds, the percentages. Does it

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<v Speaker 2>have a better chance of working out and making us

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<v Speaker 2>happy if we can just do better and be better

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<v Speaker 2>and try and get as close as you can to

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<v Speaker 2>the best version of you, because that's what they want

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<v Speaker 2>and I think you want it too. So I hope

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<v Speaker 2>that made some sense.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>Check the aforementioned Dead to Me podcast on all the platforms.

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<v Speaker 2>It's good, and the response to it is just it's

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<v Speaker 2>blown me away. It is already in the top ten

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<v Speaker 2>percent of all podcasts in the world, and a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of that is because a lot of you guys.

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<v Speaker 1>Have been checking it out.

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<v Speaker 2>So shoot me an email about this podcast and we're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about today. Great Lovedebate at gmail dot com. Questions, comments, thoughts.

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<v Speaker 2>I promise the next episode we need to laugh a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit more on this podcast. I feel like it's

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<v Speaker 2>got a lot too a little bit too serious in

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<v Speaker 2>the last few months. Maybe that's the bad weather in Cleveland.

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<v Speaker 2>So we're gonna flip it to the sunny side of

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<v Speaker 2>dating shortly. I promise please like, share, follow, and review

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<v Speaker 2>this podcast and dead to meet your reviews. Still after

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<v Speaker 2>ten years of this podcast mean a lot in the

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<v Speaker 2>podcasting ecosystem because, as always at the Great Love Debate,

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<v Speaker 2>we never stopped making love.

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<v Speaker 1>See you next time the Great Love Debate. It's the

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<v Speaker 1>Great Love.

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<v Speaker 2>The Green love to be. It's the Green Love to be.