Speaker 1: Big Food and on with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 2: These guys are your favorites, so like say subscribe and
Speaker 2: read it. Im Stard and me.
Speaker 1: Righteous on us today, listening, watching Lim always.
Speaker 2: Keep its watching.
Speaker 1: And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo Fay.
Speaker 2: Greetings, Bobo, How you doing? Man?
Speaker 3: Hey? What's up Cliff? How are you doing?
Speaker 2: Things are going all right for the most part. Melissa
Speaker 2: was out of town for a little over a week.
Speaker 2: She just got back last night. So I always appreciate
Speaker 2: having my best friend in the center of my universe around,
Speaker 2: so that's cool and joining that. I'm gonna go to
Speaker 2: the woods tomorrow. It's been about a week and a
Speaker 2: half for a lit over of weeks since I've been there,
Speaker 2: so I'm looking forward to doing that as well. What
Speaker 2: about you, anything cool going on?
Speaker 3: Well? I had something cool. I did have something cool
Speaker 3: going on. I got to go out with you and
Speaker 3: uh Art Letterman Polly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like having it was like the old days,
Speaker 2: you know, having like the quote unquote California Crew back together.
Speaker 2: You know, we got the band back together for a night,
Speaker 2: which is neat. They're at Bluff Creek and what a pleasure.
Speaker 2: That was because I was looking at my calendar and
Speaker 2: I knew Melissa had to go out of town. And
Speaker 2: I basically thought, you know, man, if I want to
Speaker 2: get the Bluff, I just like Bluff Creek. I just
Speaker 2: wanted to get down there. It's kind of like revisiting,
Speaker 2: you know, the Holy Land.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I try to do it every year or two at
Speaker 2: the very least. And I realized Melissa's headed out of town.
Speaker 2: If I didn't do it that at that window, I
Speaker 2: wasn't going to do it. And I wanted to see
Speaker 2: how the fires were. And I heard the roads are
Speaker 2: really good. You told me that, and so I said, okay,
Speaker 2: I want to go down and spend a few nights
Speaker 2: alone at Bluff Creek. On the way down, I talked
Speaker 2: to Bart He's he was going to be down there,
Speaker 2: so I called you. I said, hey, Bart's and then
Speaker 2: Lighterman was there. So it turns out to instead of
Speaker 2: spending three nights alone at Bluff Creek, I got to
Speaker 2: spend a night at Buff Creek. Was some of my
Speaker 2: best friends and it was awesome. Just loved it.
Speaker 3: Was you were on fire too, you there, weren't they
Speaker 3: growner jokes. They're all laughing jokes.
Speaker 2: Oh well, well, either either I'm wearing you down slowly
Speaker 2: or you're finally coming around in my sense of humor.
Speaker 3: That was great.
Speaker 2: I'd like to think my humor has not changed.
Speaker 3: I talked to Well, yeah, you got two kinds or
Speaker 3: three kinds, I guess. But anyways, Uh, yeah. I talked
Speaker 3: to Bart last night for a while, and he to
Speaker 3: go through all this audio yet, but he said, you
Speaker 3: went through yours if you couldn't find any of those
Speaker 3: notes he heard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, he brought these rocks from Washington. He liked
Speaker 2: the sound of them clacking together, and he was that
Speaker 2: night when we went to bed, he was He walked
Speaker 2: up and down the road a few hundred yards and
Speaker 2: was clacking. And he said that he got a really
Speaker 2: weird clacking response back and I and you know, my
Speaker 2: recorder was running, and I went through and I got
Speaker 2: Bart clacking, but I didn't get anything after it. So
Speaker 2: I mean, either the position of my recorder prohibited it,
Speaker 2: or perhaps it was just too quiet. And you know,
Speaker 2: recorders don't get everything, that's for sure. So yeah, he
Speaker 2: heard some stuff responding, but I never did. I never did,
Speaker 2: although when I was out there walking around, you know,
Speaker 2: both at night and also during the day. There was
Speaker 2: some stuff happening. You know. We were at the water
Speaker 2: spot and there was a big marsh there and I
Speaker 2: was at the I guess it would be the northwest
Speaker 2: side of that, one of those marshes, and there was
Speaker 2: something on the hill above me, and I say, and
Speaker 2: it's probably a bear, because I mean there are tons
Speaker 2: and tons of bear there. I mean, everywhere you look,
Speaker 2: it's you can find bear prints. It's ridiculous how much
Speaker 2: bear is there, which is probably why the Sasquatch is
Speaker 2: pop by. And then later on that day, I was
Speaker 2: walking the roads. I was out there alone, walking the
Speaker 2: roads up and down on the side because the roads
Speaker 2: that are all chewed up at this moment because they've
Speaker 2: been doing so much road work. And I've been ranting, like,
Speaker 2: what a fantastic opportunity this is to find footprints at
Speaker 2: Bluff Creek. If you're interested in tracking, everybody should go
Speaker 2: to Bluff Creek and check it out. Because the roads
Speaker 2: I don't think I been this good for tracking, probably
Speaker 2: since the sixties before they graveled them. But anyway, when
Speaker 2: I was out there, I got some weird knocky sort
Speaker 2: of out noises. I mean, there are a lot of
Speaker 2: things are falling from the tree ease, of course, but
Speaker 2: I mean these sounded stronger than just something falling from
Speaker 2: the trees. And it came from the same general area
Speaker 2: as I was hearing something moving around on the hill
Speaker 2: above me, so I wouldn't be a bit surprised if
Speaker 2: there was one there. It was neat. It was a
Speaker 2: lot of fun going there. I haven't been there. I
Speaker 2: went to Bluff last year in September, I think it was,
Speaker 2: or maybe the year before. Maybe it's been two years.
Speaker 2: I don't remember. Two years ago, yeah, but I didn't
Speaker 2: I didn't camp there. I camped at Laus Camp and
Speaker 2: I went to the film site and all that other stuff.
Speaker 2: And I didn't do either of those things this year.
Speaker 2: I wish I did. I really wanted to get down
Speaker 2: the Lauds, but I just enough time. The next morning,
Speaker 2: after Bart heard the knox or the clacks or whatever
Speaker 2: you want to call them, I woke up around six
Speaker 2: or seven, I think, and it sort of gathered my
Speaker 2: stuff and I was probably on the road heading out
Speaker 2: by about eight or so something like that, maybe eight
Speaker 2: thirty at the most. I had a chance to say
Speaker 2: goodbye to Lighterman because he gets up at the crack
Speaker 2: of dawn, and then, of course Bart was still asleep,
Speaker 2: so I just bailed. But I drove into Willow Creek
Speaker 2: that day and I met up with Eric, one of
Speaker 2: the people who manages the museum down there. Super nice guy.
Speaker 2: Hung out with him and we kind of went through
Speaker 2: the museum a little bit and we talked about some
Speaker 2: of the history. I corrected some of the placards that
Speaker 2: they might have been mislabeled. He was asking me, well,
Speaker 2: where's this cast right here? We just have a label
Speaker 2: for it, and I said, oh, it's over here in
Speaker 2: this exhibit. So they weren't missing as much as they thought.
Speaker 2: We went through through some of the drawers, I started
Speaker 2: piecing some things together opened so it kind of solves
Speaker 2: some things and also opened other mysterious questions I think, like,
Speaker 2: for example, the TIPMSS hand cast from nineteen eighty two,
Speaker 2: I believe, I think it was October nineteen eighty two,
Speaker 2: I remember right. I had a bunch of photographs courtesy
Speaker 2: of Larry Lund that he had never seen before of
Speaker 2: the casting of those prints that had various members from
Speaker 2: the Bay area group with him. I think Archie Buckley
Speaker 2: was there. I'm not sure if Warren Thompson was there
Speaker 2: or George Haas was there. I think George Hass was
Speaker 2: there as well, but I'm pretty sure Archie Buckley was
Speaker 2: there because he's a very particular style and that was
Speaker 2: him and photographs. He had never seen any of those
Speaker 2: photographs before, and of great interests in those photographs is
Speaker 2: after the casting, you see in case our listeners don't know, right,
Speaker 2: and a lot of people actually don't know much about
Speaker 2: this particular event. People probably know about the fifty eight
Speaker 2: stuff that Bob Timmas casts. They may even know about
Speaker 2: the fifty nine stuff in November fifty nine that he casts,
Speaker 2: and certainly they know about the Patterson Gimlin casts that
Speaker 2: he got at the site ten days after Roger and
Speaker 2: Bob filmed the thing, and there were a couple other
Speaker 2: events in there too. But Bob Timmos was very prolific,
Speaker 2: and very few people know much about what he did
Speaker 2: because Bob Timmos wrote virtually nothing about it. Whatever he
Speaker 2: did write is written in his own handwriting with pencil
Speaker 2: on the back of the footprint cast themselves, and those
Speaker 2: are on display in the Willow Creek Museum, but they're
Speaker 2: obviously displayed footprint side up, not the other way around, right,
Speaker 2: So a lot of that information has never really been
Speaker 2: seen before by the public. And of course he was
Speaker 2: a very quiet guy. He didn't really look for attention.
Speaker 2: He certainly wasn't in a purposeful influencer by any stretch
Speaker 2: of the imagination, which is probably why he's so respected,
Speaker 2: except for you know, there was obviously that cattiness between
Speaker 2: the old time researchers and stuff, and a lot of
Speaker 2: people tried to tear Bob Timmas down, unfortunately, and you
Speaker 2: can read stories about that, mostly which are.
Speaker 3: Fault a lot of people.
Speaker 2: Some yeah, a couple, a couple. But in nineteen eighty two,
Speaker 2: see Bob Timmis would go to Bluff Creek for about
Speaker 2: a month every year around October, and he chose October
Speaker 2: because not only was the Patterson Giblin film taken in October,
Speaker 2: but is also the Jerry Cruse stuff was from October
Speaker 2: as well. And of course Roger Patterson, on a trip
Speaker 2: down to Bluff Creek in nineteen sixty three, cast footprints
Speaker 2: at Lared Meadow in October. So October seemed to be
Speaker 2: a very hot month in Bluff Creek. So Bob Timmis
Speaker 2: would come down every month for about not every month
Speaker 2: every year, for about a month during October and walked
Speaker 2: the roads and looked for stuff and generally hang out.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: One of these trips, and I think it was in
Speaker 2: eighty two, he ran across a trackway up near Laired Meadow,
Speaker 2: which is where Roger cast footprints in October nineteen sixty three,
Speaker 2: and he followed them to a pond. And that pond
Speaker 2: is still there, so virtually the only pond on Laired Mountain,
Speaker 2: so it's easy to find, like the only man made
Speaker 2: sort of pond. I'm pretty sure it's man made. It's
Speaker 2: not very big, it's probably only about thirty feet by
Speaker 2: twenty feet or something like that. And the sasquatch went
Speaker 2: into the pond and there are footprints in the bottom
Speaker 2: of the pond and the thing and it was like
Speaker 2: moving like and basically here there were hand prints on
Speaker 2: the bottom of the pond too. So what it was doing,
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe foraging for worms or who knows
Speaker 2: what kind of food items you find in the bottom
Speaker 2: of a silty pond, but it was doing it so
Speaker 2: Bob Tipmos drained the pond. He called his buddies, they
Speaker 2: came up, they got a pump, they drained the pond,
Speaker 2: and Bob cast a handprint two, which is at that
Speaker 2: time one of the only hand prints in existence. There's
Speaker 2: quite a few more now, but at that time first.
Speaker 2: Now it wasn't the first. Ivan Marx had the first
Speaker 2: Prince in nineteen seventy, but Ivan Marx is associated with it.
Speaker 2: Even though I think those prints are probably real, Ivan
Speaker 2: Marx had some other things that were not real later on,
Speaker 2: so everything he has done has been cast into doubt, unfortunately.
Speaker 2: And then there was the knuckle prints from June nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty two from Freeman. But really other than that, there
Speaker 2: was virtually nothing, you know, as far as hand prints go,
Speaker 2: actual cast at least, so he casts that. But he
Speaker 2: also casts a number of footprints, and I believe the
Speaker 2: Willow Creek Museum had I think they had six. I'm
Speaker 2: pretty sure they had six of these things in their drawers.
Speaker 2: But yet the photographs that Larry Lund gave to me
Speaker 2: shows nine and say, oh, well, isn't that interesting? Where
Speaker 2: are these other casts? And that's that's the story of
Speaker 2: my life, right there having a photograph of something that
Speaker 2: one cannot find in the data sets, Like, where are
Speaker 2: these other casts? I'd really like to see them. And
Speaker 2: you know, most most of the prints aren't that great,
Speaker 2: but Bob was such a good tracker, and he was
Speaker 2: so wise about these things that he would cast them
Speaker 2: regardless of quality basically. But a couple of these casts
Speaker 2: are actually really good. They show beautiful toes and really
Speaker 2: interesting stuff, and then of course the handprint that goes
Speaker 2: with it even makes it all the more interesting. So
Speaker 2: I thought that was really neat. But yeah, so I'll
Speaker 2: be working. I made good friends with Eric of course
Speaker 2: when I was down there, the guy, you know, kind
Speaker 2: of who's leading the Willow Creek Museum to some I mean,
Speaker 2: I want to say leading it, but he's definitely a
Speaker 2: force in the Willow Creek Museum. He's really interested in.
Speaker 3: He's the motivator. I mean, he's the guy who make
Speaker 3: things happened, for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, he's kind of like some young blood in there.
Speaker 2: And there's a couple of people down there actually that
Speaker 2: are doing some stuff, but he's he's a big, big motivator,
Speaker 2: as you said. So yeah, so I hung out with
Speaker 2: him and also what a treasure this was. He invited
Speaker 2: Dave McCoy over to talk to me. I think you've
Speaker 2: spoken to Dave, haven't you.
Speaker 3: Bobs, Yeah, I got him recorded.
Speaker 2: Actually yeah, oh, really cool. It'd be interesting to hear that.
Speaker 2: I have about a forty five minute interview that I
Speaker 2: did that I recorded with him. And yeah, Dave McCoy
Speaker 2: is the son of Sil McCoy. Sil McCoy was a
Speaker 2: bigfoot researcher back in the early sixties. He did a
Speaker 2: lot of stuff with Bob Titmas. He lived down there
Speaker 2: in the High and Palm area, is a logger, all
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff. You know. He's just a man
Speaker 2: of the woods down there, and he was present when
Speaker 2: a lot of these famous casts were obtained, like the
Speaker 2: High Im Palm Site A and Site B stuff from
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three from April. But there's a lot of
Speaker 2: other stuff going on down there that he also had
Speaker 2: an association with. He would go out and check out
Speaker 2: other footprint fines and come back, oh that's nonsense, or
Speaker 2: oh those are real, like cast a couple of them.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I talked to Dave McCoy for forty five
Speaker 2: minutes and recorded an interview with him, and it was
Speaker 2: just a wonderful interview, and I've kept in touch with
Speaker 2: Dave Simpson. He invited me next time I come down
Speaker 2: to the area. He said he'd be happy to go
Speaker 2: show me where some of the stuff happened. Go drive
Speaker 2: around High and Palm and get a guided tour from
Speaker 2: a McCloy. Oh, I'd be thrilled to do that, of course. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Eric and I at the museum, we're talking about trying
Speaker 2: to plan some sort of collaboration stuff between my museum
Speaker 2: and the Willow Creek Museum. So there's a lot going
Speaker 2: on there that a lot to look forward to as
Speaker 2: things kind of slowly pan out in the dust settles
Speaker 2: in my life here. So there's a lot going on
Speaker 2: as usual.
Speaker 3: Well, we got planned for this week. We don't have
Speaker 3: a guess that we're just doing a response with the listeners.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to fill you in Bobo since
Speaker 1: the last time, one of the last episodes that you
Speaker 1: guys did together before we had some guests on, you
Speaker 1: had talked about selling the trailer and I posted that
Speaker 1: picture of you and the trailer and the feedback was
Speaker 1: pretty overwhelming, and so I'm just digging into our comments here,
Speaker 1: several people said, like our listener Bill said, I thought
Speaker 1: it would look much worse from the way that Cliff
Speaker 1: talked about it. Did is in and said the trailer
Speaker 1: is a million times nicer looking that I was expecting.
Speaker 3: That what I said clip with suring my deals that
Speaker 3: it's had a bad about that, so that we might
Speaker 3: have got some takers from the audience.
Speaker 1: My fault did There were a lot of like condolences, like,
Speaker 1: you know, Bobo, so sorry I had to part ways
Speaker 1: with your trailer. Harry says, what's really funny is Francis said,
Speaker 1: simply take me away with you, Bobo. Michelle says, are
Speaker 1: you saying you had to part ways with her? Ought?
Speaker 3: People understand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if we go over to uh Instagram here the
Speaker 1: Spooks Creeps podcast said, always in our trailer hearts. Hollyboo
Speaker 1: K says nice than I was expecting. So sorry to
Speaker 1: see it.
Speaker 3: Go, Bobo. Thank you. People understand how some simpthy It's
Speaker 3: well deserved.
Speaker 1: There was someone on Twitter. I didn't pull this one up,
Speaker 1: but you know the picture is you and the trailer,
Speaker 1: and someone on Twitter said, this is the most beautiful
Speaker 1: thing these eyes have ever seen. So I responded and said, yeah,
Speaker 1: but what did you think of the trailer?
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 1: You will be missed Bobo's trailer. Oh my god, has
Speaker 1: it finally left the building?
Speaker 3: Literally?
Speaker 1: So you know, listeners were really moved by that picture,
Speaker 1: and you got a lot of sympathy and condolences for
Speaker 1: the trailers being gone there. You know, I think Monkey
Speaker 1: had a huge outpouring of love because she was so
Speaker 1: well known and was on the TV. But I will
Speaker 1: say I think the trailer definitely got more condolences than Sergio.
Speaker 1: But you know, we didn't really see that many images
Speaker 1: of Sergio unfortunately, so I don't think he quite instantiated
Speaker 1: himself into the hearts of our listeners like the trailer did.
Speaker 3: That trailer was stricken awesome. I was just lamenting to night.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm going to regret that decision more than
Speaker 3: anything else in my life. I'm sure getting rid of that.
Speaker 2: That's a staggering statement. I mean I wanted to respond
Speaker 2: to it, but I was still processing for seconds after
Speaker 2: you said that that you will regret selling that trailer
Speaker 2: more than you will re read anything else in your
Speaker 2: entire life.
Speaker 3: So far, so.
Speaker 2: Far, Okay, Wow, because I've known you a long time
Speaker 2: and I know that you have some very regrettable things
Speaker 2: in your past.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we have a recurring segment about regrettable things,
Speaker 1: but what storytime that's true.
Speaker 4: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Speaker 4: Bobo will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 1: We ended up tackling the Q and A the last
Speaker 1: session because I'd already put all those together and had
Speaker 1: all those in the queue when we found out that
Speaker 1: you had some stuff to deal with and couldn't make it.
Speaker 1: So we just had a roll with that. So I
Speaker 1: did save a couple of the Bobo questions. So one
Speaker 1: of the questions we had gotten was from a listener
Speaker 1: named Justin Brown who was asking Cliff and I. He
Speaker 1: called us the resonant nerds, and he was asking about
Speaker 1: video game related things. But he did ask at the
Speaker 1: end of his question, Bobo, what is the closest you've
Speaker 1: ever been to being nerd adjacent?
Speaker 3: We at the same time with Clip plenty of times.
Speaker 3: That's pretty good.
Speaker 1: But I've heard you offer up some pretty heated defenses
Speaker 1: of like Lord of the Rings or some other things
Speaker 1: that you're like, that's not nerd.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, also, I would say that Lord of the
Speaker 2: Rings there's a lot of whiggle room in there, you know,
Speaker 2: like there's a lot of gray area. It's gradients. I
Speaker 2: would say that I have certainly walked past the threshold
Speaker 2: of nerdiness for Lord of the Rings. And Bobo is
Speaker 2: more he really loves it, but I would say he's
Speaker 2: more a casual fan isn't quite the right term because
Speaker 2: of his love for it. But like Bobo, have you
Speaker 2: read the Cimarillion? No, there you go. I think I
Speaker 2: think that's probably a good.
Speaker 3: That's someone like languages and all that in it, like
Speaker 3: how to translate languages.
Speaker 2: And now now it's it's kind of like the Old
Speaker 2: Testament in a way of Lord of the Rings. It's
Speaker 2: the backstory, yea worldwide history and context of in which
Speaker 2: the Lord of the Rings is set. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: like if you don't know what Gondolin is, yeah, you
Speaker 2: might enjoy it. It's it's great, it's a wonderful book's.
Speaker 3: Probably I love it. I just haven't read it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a fantastic book. And it's not easy
Speaker 2: to read. The language changes, it's much more formal and
Speaker 2: like I said, kind of like it feels like reading
Speaker 2: the Old Testament, where you know, the Lord of the
Speaker 2: Rings is more narrative and there's dialogue and details and stuff,
Speaker 2: whereas in some Maarillion they'll they'll mention a battle that
Speaker 2: lasted for a year and a half and it'll be
Speaker 2: a paragraph, you know, that sort of stuff. So but
Speaker 2: but it is still it's probably my favorite Tolkien work,
Speaker 2: so wherever that's worth. But I think that Bobo's love
Speaker 2: for Lord of the Rings in Tolkien in general is
Speaker 2: perhaps a little bit more casual, where I would say
Speaker 2: I have definitely, you know, swam in the in the
Speaker 2: pool of nerdiness as far as the Tolkien legendarium goes,
Speaker 2: do you speak Elvin.
Speaker 3: Or or or No?
Speaker 2: I know a couple of words, but I wouldn't and
Speaker 2: I would not say I speak it by any means.
Speaker 2: On I definitely know. I'm not a tricky kind of
Speaker 2: guy actually at all, really, so I do enjoy him,
Speaker 2: but I'm not I can't say I'm into it.
Speaker 1: So there are a few leftover written submissions from the
Speaker 1: Q and a session that we did last time that
Speaker 1: we didn't get too so I could I could pop
Speaker 1: those in here because a couple of more finding Bigfoot
Speaker 1: related So now that we have Clobo present, that would
Speaker 1: be good.
Speaker 2: Sure, sure, well here, I'll go ahead read this one. I'll
Speaker 2: read the first one here. This was from Laura hey
Speaker 2: Gens Laura from Australia. Here, longtime listener and longer time fan, Bobo.
Speaker 2: I had to get my own gone squatch and truck
Speaker 2: or cap when I saw you wearing it on Finding
Speaker 2: Bigfoot back in the day. My question is it seemed
Speaker 2: like wherever you went it was almost always squatchy and
Speaker 2: there was some form of activity. How realistic was it
Speaker 2: that you had activity wherever you went? It sounds like
Speaker 2: bumping into a sasquatch when outlooking is quite rare. So
Speaker 2: was any of that played up for the camera or
Speaker 2: were they actually that active? Because your locations were selected carefully,
Speaker 2: there was.
Speaker 3: Plenty of episodes we had no action. I mean, it
Speaker 3: was just dead. But we did go to the squatchiest places.
Speaker 3: I mean we were working with like some of the
Speaker 3: best researchers in the country to go to the best spots.
Speaker 3: Like we did tons of research on what time of year,
Speaker 3: you know, talking to witnesses and you know, big footers
Speaker 3: in the area, so we had pretty good luck because
Speaker 3: we were going to new spots all the time. I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, like to the best spots.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think we probably batted I'm gonna
Speaker 2: guess here, fifty percent, you know. And if you're batting
Speaker 2: fifty percent in baseballing and that's like you know, Hall
Speaker 2: of Famer stuff, right, fifty percent for Bigfoot, it's amazing.
Speaker 2: And really the reason we were so good, we're so lucky,
Speaker 2: so good, so whatever, so successful is we had the
Speaker 2: databases behind us, you know, money Maker's database, the BFRO
Speaker 2: was at our disposal, including a nationwide network of researchers
Speaker 2: who were out in the field on a pretty regular
Speaker 2: basis interviewing witnesses and learning about stuff. And I had
Speaker 2: probably at that point, I myself had twelve hundred reports
Speaker 2: probably submitted to me by then. So but Matt had
Speaker 2: you know, ten times that, well maybe not ten times, yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe ten times or more, you know, of good reports
Speaker 2: from almost wherever we went. So if we knew we
Speaker 2: were going to someplace, you know, like Mississippi, he would
Speaker 2: just call up his Mississippi researchers and say, we're going
Speaker 2: to these areas. What do you think what's been going on,
Speaker 2: tell me about it, and kind of keep his finger
Speaker 2: on the pulse there for a month or so before
Speaker 2: we went down there, and say what you I know,
Speaker 2: a lot of people don't like Matt for whatever reason.
Speaker 2: I like him just fine. In fact, I was literally
Speaker 2: texting with him this morning. But he is very good
Speaker 2: at finding sasquatches. He maybe right or wrong about some
Speaker 2: other things that he says or whatever, and his his hypotheses,
Speaker 2: just like we all are, but he is very good
Speaker 2: at finding sasquatches and where they are likely to be.
Speaker 2: So when he gets the intel from his researchers who
Speaker 2: may have just looked into report that happened three weeks ago,
Speaker 2: he can start scouring maps in that area and trying
Speaker 2: to figure out what's going on and piecing together some
Speaker 2: sort of model of what he thinks sasquatches are doing.
Speaker 2: And you know, and I'll be darn men, he's right.
Speaker 3: A lot Google Earth and good maps, and my maker
Speaker 3: will show you that he will find the spots that
Speaker 3: are most likely to have him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so yeah, he was. He was a lot
Speaker 2: of the reason we're successful, between the BFRO and Matt's
Speaker 2: innate ability to locate them, and you know, and you know,
Speaker 2: it's not like the rest of us aren't any good either.
Speaker 2: But Matt had the resources, and he had the researchers
Speaker 2: out there he could tap into. He had the sighting
Speaker 2: reports stuff, I mean, the BFRO stuff. If you if
Speaker 2: you go online, you only see the tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 2: There are a lot of reports that are still behind
Speaker 2: the veil, so to speak. And most of the reason
Speaker 2: he's not hiding anything from you. I don't see these
Speaker 2: things of locks.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm not online in the Bigfoot world very much. But
Speaker 2: I do see people who these paranoid fantasies about how
Speaker 2: the BFRO is hiding things away and they have a
Speaker 2: warehouse full of data that they're not sharing and all
Speaker 2: this other nonsense. It's like, man, calm down, your conspiratorial nonsense.
Speaker 2: It's not like that at all. But there are a
Speaker 2: lot of reports that remain uninvestigated. That's the key there,
Speaker 2: because it's an all volunteer organization, and the BFRO, I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm not a member. I don't think any of us
Speaker 2: here are members, but we were at one point and
Speaker 2: I'm not a member just because I find that in
Speaker 2: this weird tribal world that we have inherited. If you're
Speaker 2: in a group, other people won't work with you, you know,
Speaker 2: And it's a group sort of thing. You're either for
Speaker 2: me or against me sort of stuff. And I think
Speaker 2: that all that is nonsense. I think that's childish personally.
Speaker 2: So I'm not in any group whatsoever, So I can
Speaker 2: work with whoever whoever wants to work with me. I'm
Speaker 2: fine with it. But it's an all The BFRORO is
Speaker 2: an all volunteer organization, and no matter how enthusiastic you
Speaker 2: think you are about Bigfoot, once you talk to five
Speaker 2: or ten witnesses, the fire kind of dims a bit
Speaker 2: and you think, well, I'm going to hear another road crossings.
Speaker 2: And most people just investigate fewer and fewer reports the
Speaker 2: longer they're in any group. And there are some diehards
Speaker 2: out there that do it all the time, don't get
Speaker 2: me wrong, But most people who get signed up for
Speaker 2: the BFRORO, they're on fire for a month or two,
Speaker 2: they do three or four, five reports or something, and
Speaker 2: then they slowly start neglecting the BFRO stuff because life
Speaker 2: gets in the way, and so most reports probably go uninvestigated.
Speaker 2: Or they just aren't really worth it because somebody heard
Speaker 2: a knock and they think it's more important than a
Speaker 2: knock actually is, or a vocalization actually is. But when
Speaker 2: you're making a TV show, some of that stuff could
Speaker 2: be very useful. If you have an area that you
Speaker 2: get all these weird vocalizations from and knocks and a
Speaker 2: footprint find that a lot of people would never even
Speaker 2: investigate and put and post publicly. Well, that stuff could
Speaker 2: add up to it. I mean, Moneymaker's the money Maker math.
Speaker 2: We said it on the TV show a couple of times,
Speaker 2: you know, And what is it? A bunch of maybes
Speaker 2: equals it? Probably, Yeah. So that's why we were so
Speaker 2: successful because we had we had the Bfroro database, We
Speaker 2: had Moneymaker, and we had Bobo and I with a
Speaker 2: lot of Woods experience, and I knew a bunch of
Speaker 2: witnesses as well, and Bobo knew him. Boba doesn't really
Speaker 2: keep it. I don't think you really keep a database
Speaker 2: per se. But you know a lot more people than
Speaker 2: I ever will in my entire life cumulative.
Speaker 3: You know what I gotta say about my Maker was
Speaker 3: on the pilot, we had no luck. In the last
Speaker 3: Prince of Wales island of Shoot in the pilot. On
Speaker 3: the final butt Maker just goes, we're going up here,
Speaker 3: and he pulled up the map and he how did
Speaker 3: jourch you this map? And looking at Google Earth, But
Speaker 3: we're going there. We went up there and sure enough,
Speaker 3: And that's one of the things that really got the
Speaker 3: show kind of pumped. When we got the rock explodion.
Speaker 3: It sounded like it took two rocks and just smashed
Speaker 3: them together behind us, thinking it sounded like a sledgehammer,
Speaker 3: like a giant sledgehammer hitting another rock and it exploding
Speaker 3: like and you can hear the chunks of rock flying
Speaker 3: through the brush and it was literally like thirty feet
Speaker 3: behind us, forty feet behind us, something like that. Fifty
Speaker 3: feet no more than fifty feet. Roder, I want some
Speaker 3: of hit radeos.
Speaker 2: On the other it is Aaron Rider. A lot of
Speaker 2: people might know Aaron Ryder from other TV shows that
Speaker 2: she's done, but she was a producer on her pilot.
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, and so it was it was shocking.
Speaker 3: It was so loud and so violent and so sudden
Speaker 3: and the quiet still dark night, and so that kind
Speaker 3: of went a long way and getting everyone pumped up
Speaker 3: on the show before it even air, and I was
Speaker 3: thanks to money Maker.
Speaker 2: It was Matt, and also the stubbornness of Matt and
Speaker 2: you you, I want to take away the glory of
Speaker 2: your stubbornness as well, because it really changed everything for
Speaker 2: the show. Because again, when we're filming the pilot, the
Speaker 2: producers were making the decision. And these producers don't know
Speaker 2: anything about bigfoot I mean, I mean they don't. Some
Speaker 2: of them were in their twenties and they think they
Speaker 2: know everything, because that's what it's like being a twenty
Speaker 2: three year old person who's given the who granted the
Speaker 2: the title of produce sir. When that's what all you
Speaker 2: want to do for your life, of course you're gonna
Speaker 2: be kind of full of yourself and think you know
Speaker 2: what's up, but you don't. And and these producers were
Speaker 2: making decisions about where we're going to go bigfooting based
Speaker 2: on remember that one dude, I remember his name, but
Speaker 2: he said that it's going to look great when you
Speaker 2: guys walk across that log. So really, that's what you
Speaker 2: think we're doing. That's what you think we're doing here polistic. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's insane, insane, And we were we had nothing going on.
Speaker 2: We had nothing basically except for a lot of pretty
Speaker 2: shots and b rolls and a few witnesses. And I
Speaker 2: remember we we went in there before the last night
Speaker 2: investigation we were scheduled to go out that night. We
Speaker 2: went over to the cabin where the owners of the
Speaker 2: production company and you know, the head producers were all staying,
Speaker 2: and we went in there and said, dude, we're not
Speaker 2: getting anything, and it's because you're choosing the spots. You're
Speaker 2: not letting the bigfooters do what we do. We do this,
Speaker 2: you don't. You don't know what you're talking about, and
Speaker 2: we're going to fail unless you give us a little
Speaker 2: bit more control here. And they were not happy with
Speaker 2: us at all anyway, because of butting heads with us
Speaker 2: all week long, and we're not getting anything, and they
Speaker 2: knew that we're all failing, and we just basically said, dude,
Speaker 2: you're holding us back. You are the reason this is failing.
Speaker 2: You need to let us do some bigfoot stuff or
Speaker 2: we're not going to get anything. And they at that
Speaker 2: point were so aggravated and frustrated with us, they basically said, okay,
Speaker 2: you have three hours go, and they let us loose
Speaker 2: and we hauled ass. You remember that in that old
Speaker 2: suv thing that we had. Yeah, and we hauled ass
Speaker 2: up the mountains just trying to find. Okay, the only
Speaker 2: way we're going to get anything is by vocalizing. We
Speaker 2: need to find a spot that we can yell the
Speaker 2: furthest and get something in return, because we have three
Speaker 2: hours to scout a spot and find a sasquatch before
Speaker 2: we go out and film for the final night investigation
Speaker 2: on a pilot that will either make or break the
Speaker 2: show period. And we did, and Matt says, this is
Speaker 2: where we need to go, and we drove that road.
Speaker 2: We found the best spots we can to vocalize, and
Speaker 2: long and short of it is, we got them. We
Speaker 2: got them that night, and only because the production justment
Speaker 2: a brief moment of unexplainable wisdom, because I don't have
Speaker 2: a lot of faith in production in general. They let
Speaker 2: us do what we do. You know, to me, it's
Speaker 2: just such a no brainer that, like, you know, like
Speaker 2: somebody is trying to tell you how to fix your car,
Speaker 2: but they've never held a wrench. You're going to talk
Speaker 2: to the mechanic, right, Let the mechanic do what they do.
Speaker 2: Let the bigfooters do what they do, and they did
Speaker 2: and we won on that one, and that was basically
Speaker 2: the struggle for the next season or two. You know,
Speaker 2: everybody knows that we've had struggles on finding big Foot,
Speaker 2: particularly first season, but the production found that the more
Speaker 2: they let us do what we do, the more successful
Speaker 2: the show was, you know, and the body you know,
Speaker 2: we didn't get them all the time. To get back
Speaker 2: to Laura's question, we didn't get them all the time,
Speaker 2: but we bat at about a fifty to fifty and
Speaker 2: for Bigfoot, that's amazing. And at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: it's only because the production finally tried trust us and
Speaker 2: we delivered. At the end of the day, we delivered
Speaker 2: because they realized that we do this all the time,
Speaker 2: and the people who live in la who don't have
Speaker 2: a lot of life experience, who don't even think Bigfoot
Speaker 2: is real, maybe they should not be the ones to
Speaker 2: choose where we go look for these animals.
Speaker 3: She paid they weren't recording that, because that was what
Speaker 3: I saw to day. Really freaked out, like I mean,
Speaker 3: she was, I mean we all were like, just oh, well,
Speaker 3: I say she was scared, but she was. We were
Speaker 3: all just so startled. Just you heard it too, I
Speaker 3: mean everyone you had to have heard it. But how
Speaker 3: far were you from it when it did that?
Speaker 2: Oh? I don't remember. I think I was on the
Speaker 2: road below you or something about maybe quarter mile or
Speaker 2: a couplet least a couple hundred yards, I don't remember.
Speaker 2: But yeah, by any way, that's the answer for that one, Laura. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we didn't get them all the time, but we did
Speaker 2: do pretty well with it. I mean, I think for
Speaker 2: Bigfoot we did excellent.
Speaker 4: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Speaker 4: Bobo will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 2: At that point particularly, we didn't know what kind of
Speaker 2: reality show this is going to be, Like, are they
Speaker 2: going to put this against each other? It is this
Speaker 2: gonna be like Real Housewives or something where we're just
Speaker 2: all monsters to another, you know. But so we weren't.
Speaker 2: I remember, I was very conscious and we spoke about
Speaker 2: it as a group to not give them stuff that
Speaker 2: they could use against us like that, you know, And
Speaker 2: then later on we eventually trusted them we can be
Speaker 2: more ourselves. And you can see that if you watch
Speaker 2: the episodes from season one to season eight or nine
Speaker 2: or whatever however they designate those things. So it's all
Speaker 2: made up anyway, as far as what seasons go, that
Speaker 2: doesn't really make sense. But from the beginning to the
Speaker 2: end of the show, you see that, like, oh, the
Speaker 2: real personalities are coming through, you know, later on in
Speaker 2: the seasons, whereas the first season or two were much
Speaker 2: more reserved and stuff. But there's one thing I wanted
Speaker 2: to address in this question.
Speaker 3: Where was it?
Speaker 2: So it was any of that played up for the camera,
Speaker 2: And that kind of goes back to this thing where
Speaker 2: we didn't want to give them anything they could use
Speaker 2: against us, right, and that was us not trusting them
Speaker 2: for you know, for right. Wrong doesn't really matter at
Speaker 2: this point. But I remember being out and hearing coyotes
Speaker 2: and I go, okay, coyotes like that, and one of
Speaker 2: our producers, Heather was her name. Heather said of me,
Speaker 2: say that's all you got. I said, well, yeah, it's
Speaker 2: just coyotes. Like I'm not gonna get excited about coyotes
Speaker 2: or anything like that. I don't want the editors to
Speaker 2: make it look like I'm a big so yeah. But
Speaker 2: but but Cliff and she put it in a way
Speaker 2: that I finally understood what they needed, you know, And
Speaker 2: she says, okay, Cliff, check this out. You're a teacher, right,
Speaker 2: You're doing a lesson on some geology lesson like volcanism
Speaker 2: or something on volcanoes. And you do that, you know
Speaker 2: that that thing that the kitchen chemistry thing where you
Speaker 2: mixed together baking soda and vinegar and it bubbles up
Speaker 2: and you can tint it red and make a volcano
Speaker 2: sort of thing that we've all seen that in elementary
Speaker 2: school sort of settings. Right, she says, if you're doing
Speaker 2: that in your classroom and you're and you're showing your children,
Speaker 2: and you've been doing this lesson for five or eight
Speaker 2: years in a row, and you have a new crop
Speaker 2: of fifth graders or whatever in there, and you're showing
Speaker 2: that lesson to the students, are you going to go, yep,
Speaker 2: there it is. You like that, guys, Or are you
Speaker 2: going to go, oh my gosh, look at this, this
Speaker 2: is amazing blah blah blah blah blah blah and get
Speaker 2: all fired up about it and then talk about it.
Speaker 2: And I said, well, obviously I would do that because
Speaker 2: my students are important to me. He says, that's right, Cliff,
Speaker 2: And now you don't have a class of thirty. You
Speaker 2: have a class of about a million and a half
Speaker 2: people every single week. You owe it to them to
Speaker 2: be more enthusiastic about it, and don't worry about what
Speaker 2: the editors are going to do. Just be you just
Speaker 2: go big. Just treat this like you're teaching students, because
Speaker 2: you are, and some student quote unquote out there is
Speaker 2: going to be is going to catch what you have
Speaker 2: man contagiously speaking, you know, like they're going to be
Speaker 2: enthusiastic too about the subject, but not if you do
Speaker 2: it like this. Yeah, so what it's coyotes. Get excited
Speaker 2: about hearing coyotes. There's nothing wrong with that. You're not lying,
Speaker 2: You're you know, you can be excited about hearing coyotes.
Speaker 3: We know if the codsrom is the food around.
Speaker 2: Right, right. But I was so concerned about them throwing
Speaker 2: us under the bus that I wasn't given it that,
Speaker 2: you know, so later on it hadn't really changed it
Speaker 2: for me, and I went, oh, yeah, that makes sense
Speaker 2: to me. I am I am doing a disservice to
Speaker 2: the to the audience by not getting enthusiastic about coyotes,
Speaker 2: you know, So that changed everything for me, and it
Speaker 2: just made a lot more sense to me. And I
Speaker 2: think probably I think we had a better show because
Speaker 2: little lessons like that about how to make good TV
Speaker 2: and still be true to the subject or.
Speaker 3: Make mediocre TV. PA's true to the subjects.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I look back now. I think it's
Speaker 2: pretty I think it's an okay show, man. I think
Speaker 2: it's pretty okay.
Speaker 3: Yea.
Speaker 2: It makes me laugh now because it doesn't even seem
Speaker 2: like me in the show, and it's a lot funnier
Speaker 2: than I remember it too. Holy crap. I haven't seen
Speaker 2: an episode for probably a year or a year and
Speaker 2: a half, but I mean I remember just laughing, like, man,
Speaker 2: we have some really funny jokes in there, man, super
Speaker 2: funny stuff, considering none of it was written. It is
Speaker 2: all just improvised.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you got another one here from Connor Klein. Hey,
Speaker 3: I'm a long time listener of the podcast. I listen
Speaker 3: to you guys while I weld. My question is what
Speaker 3: would be the best way to manage your property with
Speaker 3: Bigfoot in mind? Thank you for all you guys, do.
Speaker 2: Well, do well, d weld see I only have one
Speaker 2: flavored joke awesome. Oh by the way, and that's an
Speaker 2: inside joke because moneymaker he would very often go welly
Speaker 2: welly well you know, and and so it was a
Speaker 2: it was a joke on the anybody who knows Matt.
Speaker 3: Cocker Orange, well do you well, d Weld, Yeah, that's
Speaker 3: really good. Sorry you got it from Cockerk Orange? Well
Speaker 3: well welly so yeah, I think about that all the time.
Speaker 3: I think one thing you can start with is make
Speaker 3: it count of a semi have a junk yard, so
Speaker 3: you have like old dilapidated boats, a couple of uninhabitable trailers.
Speaker 2: Is that what you were doing by leaving your trailer
Speaker 2: on my property?
Speaker 3: Good one? Yeah? How many times Dold we go to
Speaker 3: someplace like that and it's like small junk yards. It
Speaker 3: had a lot of activity. But first off, you want
Speaker 3: to be in a good squatch stone and bit in
Speaker 3: fruit trees and things that will attract deer and and
Speaker 3: that sort of thing. So it's not straight on having
Speaker 3: as many food sources as you can.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think food and animals. Yeah, that's it, Like
Speaker 2: food for you and the animals as well as live
Speaker 2: animals is a big thing. But of course, you know
Speaker 2: when you look at the property up there in Washington,
Speaker 2: our buddy up there. They've got pretty much none of that.
Speaker 2: They have like fruit trees, but they basically had. Oh
Speaker 2: and if you can get a property at the end
Speaker 2: of a road, the last one on the road would
Speaker 2: be fantastic. Pushed up against some sort of public land
Speaker 2: would be amazing. So food, food and live animals to
Speaker 2: show that other animals are cool there, and stuff, and
Speaker 2: maybe as a food source. And you got to be
Speaker 2: okay with like, you know, losing some losing a cat
Speaker 2: every once in a while or something, but that that
Speaker 2: would help a lot. I think another good thing is
Speaker 2: be predictable. I think you would be eventually predictable anyway.
Speaker 2: You know, if you have a routine, they pick up
Speaker 2: on that pretty quick. And I think that having a
Speaker 2: routine that's not really cultivating a property necessarily or managing
Speaker 2: a property, but that's something you can do with your
Speaker 2: own life, is just have realize your routine, because we
Speaker 2: all have one, we just don't think about it so much.
Speaker 2: Realize your own routine and kind of take notes on it,
Speaker 2: and then every once in a while break it to
Speaker 2: see if they're cruising around, because they don't expect you
Speaker 2: to be in a certain area yeah, and other than that,
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know. I mean, I have some
Speaker 2: plans for my property. I've got about twenty twenty three
Speaker 2: acres out here on the slopes of mountain Hood here
Speaker 2: and then the foothills, and I haven't done a lot
Speaker 2: to my property to cultivate it for sasquatches yet, because well,
Speaker 2: part of the reason is anything you do for sasquatches,
Speaker 2: bears are going to become an issue. You know, essentially,
Speaker 2: you know you're gonna have a lot of bears around.
Speaker 2: And I don't think my wife really wants bears around
Speaker 2: very much because I'm gone a lot. But I do
Speaker 2: have some ideas about planning some fruit trees on the
Speaker 2: upper property. We've got a couple of springs up there
Speaker 2: that would probably keep the fruit trees watered efficiently, So
Speaker 2: I'd like to put some food sources up there, because
Speaker 2: we don't get bears down where I am necessarily, but
Speaker 2: on the top of the property or underneath this, underneath
Speaker 2: the outbuilding, we get a lot of bear movement all
Speaker 2: throughout there. It's because we have a blm land at
Speaker 2: the end of the road here and there's a lot
Speaker 2: of bears out there. But I have some ideas about
Speaker 2: putting some food items up on top and not not
Speaker 2: baiting for bears. I'm not hunting or anything like that,
Speaker 2: but I'm planning some apple trees or maybe a pear
Speaker 2: tree or something out there in the brush if I
Speaker 2: can find a sunny enough spot for it.
Speaker 3: Of course, put a little feed plot out, like just
Speaker 3: like twenty stalks of corn, you know, like even that
Speaker 3: would well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. I just this past week I
Speaker 2: put out I had maybe about ten or fifteen gallons
Speaker 2: worth of sweet feed. So I just put a pile
Speaker 2: of that upstairs, just to put it out there, just
Speaker 2: to see what happens that kind of thing. And I
Speaker 2: think also putting food Like last year, I went crabbing.
Speaker 2: At some point we limited out on crabs and came back,
Speaker 2: and once we ate them, I put all the shells
Speaker 2: in a big pile up there. And I try to
Speaker 2: put the food stuffs in the same area every single time,
Speaker 2: so again, be predictable with what you're doing, you know.
Speaker 2: And I've had sasquatch stuff happen up there. This is
Speaker 2: up at the top campsite. I think you've been up there, Bobo,
Speaker 2: but above the top camp site. There's you know, twenty no,
Speaker 2: not realistically, about four or five six acres of undeveloped
Speaker 2: land that no one's ever done anything with. I don't
Speaker 2: own it. It belongs to the people who live further
Speaker 2: up the hill from me, but they've never been down there.
Speaker 2: There's no roads down there, there are no trails down there.
Speaker 2: It's just wild land essentially, and I think that's where
Speaker 2: a lot of the animals moving. I've gotten knocks out
Speaker 2: of that area before, so yeah, it just kind of
Speaker 2: make a big show. They go up there, put the
Speaker 2: food down, and then leave the area. Whenever. Most of
Speaker 2: the time when I'm up there, they can hear me
Speaker 2: coming because I'm righting in the side by side or
Speaker 2: the tractor or something like that. So those are ideas
Speaker 2: for Connor.
Speaker 3: Yeah, anything we missed through it.
Speaker 1: No, I think that's a pretty good overview. I always
Speaker 1: wondered because, yeah, a lot of those long term or
Speaker 1: repeat visit sites do seem like really junkie and I
Speaker 1: always thought maybe they just somehow gravitate to places that
Speaker 1: a not only provide a lot of hiding places and
Speaker 1: things to be obstructed by, but I think the lifestyle
Speaker 1: of the people there in a really manicured place would
Speaker 1: show that the residents are fairly vigilant. So not only
Speaker 1: are they removing all the obstructions and things to hide behind,
Speaker 1: but they'd kind of always be outside doing some kind
Speaker 1: of maintenance and paying a lot of attention, and that
Speaker 1: would just put them off too. So yeah, the things
Speaker 1: you see in common across all those places, not only
Speaker 1: it's like where they're situated in terms of the environmental context,
Speaker 1: but yeah, they tend to be pretty neglected looking.
Speaker 2: And if you're really interested in developing a property and
Speaker 2: knowing what to look for and stuff, I would recommend
Speaker 2: reading Tom Powell's book The Locals. He was really amongst
Speaker 2: the first people to really delve into this whole habituation thing.
Speaker 2: And of course I don't know Tom has gone much
Speaker 2: much further. He thinks sees thing live underground and inside
Speaker 2: the hollow earth, and there's alien connections and all sorts
Speaker 2: of paranormal stuff that I don't agree with, but I
Speaker 2: love Tom. And back in the early days when he
Speaker 2: was transitioning over to the paranormal ideas that he now
Speaker 2: holds deer, he was still kind of pretty flesh and
Speaker 2: blood and he was looking into these properties that had
Speaker 2: sasquatches giving repeat visits, and he had a lot of
Speaker 2: things to say about it that I thought were are
Speaker 2: still to this day very very useful for things to
Speaker 2: think about. So check out Tom Powell's book The Locals
Speaker 2: and see what he has to say about some of
Speaker 2: these properties that he was doing work on. And to
Speaker 2: Tom's credit, you know, Tom was back in he was
Speaker 2: in the bfr O at the time and as actually
Speaker 2: writing the book The Locals that made him leave the
Speaker 2: BFRO at some point, and he did a camera trap
Speaker 2: project on one of these properties and sure enough got
Speaker 2: a picture. So and that picture is in the North
Speaker 2: American Bigfoot Center. We have a whole display on that
Speaker 2: because it's one of these things that almost nobody knows about,
Speaker 2: but but it actually happened, and he got two frames
Speaker 2: of a video of one of these things walking past
Speaker 2: a camera. It's not very good, don't get your hopes
Speaker 2: up or anything, but it is a silhouette that is
Speaker 2: definitely big foot shaped in front of some very archaic
Speaker 2: nowadays archaic technology. Back then, it was cutting edge, and
Speaker 2: I think it was Richard Hucklebridge that kicked down the
Speaker 2: money to fund this project. And nowadays, like the technology
Speaker 2: is like laughable nowadays, but back then it was cutting edge.
Speaker 2: It's like either two thousand or two thousand and one.
Speaker 2: But yeah, Tom Powell's book The Locals and his work
Speaker 2: up there and what they call the Chehalis Project is
Speaker 2: just fantastic, just really really good stuff and even to
Speaker 2: this day it has a lot of value. So go
Speaker 2: check that out if you can read, read read books.
Speaker 4: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
Speaker 4: We'll be right back after these messages.
Speaker 3: I guess you're can move on to the next one.
Speaker 2: Well, this question, which will probably be the last question
Speaker 2: for this episode here, comes from Marty Campbell. Enjoy the show.
Speaker 2: I myself am a complete non believer in any claims
Speaker 2: of Bigfoot, but still enjoy listening for entertainment. If there
Speaker 2: was some kind of evidence to show the lack of
Speaker 2: existence of Bigfoot, what would that evidence be to convince you?
Speaker 2: And what would you do to find that out? I
Speaker 2: understand you can't prove a negative. This is more of
Speaker 2: a fun thought experiment.
Speaker 1: Thanks party, you idiot. Well, nobody's perfect, right, No. I
Speaker 1: really love the fact that people who are non believers listen.
Speaker 1: I think that's great and that they find value in it,
Speaker 1: whether it's just entertainment or if they're learning, you know,
Speaker 1: tangential things about other animals or wildlife or science in general.
Speaker 1: You know, from my perspective, first of all, you'd have
Speaker 1: to demonstrate what animal out there makes certain sounds, especially
Speaker 1: the big moaning howls, because just from personal experience, I've
Speaker 1: heard that eleven times all across North America. Many people
Speaker 1: have gotten recordings of that. It's been analyzed by a
Speaker 1: number of bioacoustics experts who basically unanimously agree that it's
Speaker 1: not synthetic, it's not mechanical, and it's not man made,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't correspond with any known mammal. So I
Speaker 1: think if sasquatches did not exist, but you could demonstrate
Speaker 1: that bears in very specific circumstances, just as an example,
Speaker 1: produce that sound that might be compelling. You know, you'd
Speaker 1: have to have some alternative for a lot of these things.
Speaker 1: And if there is no such thing in the objective environment,
Speaker 1: then it only exists within the human mind. Then I
Speaker 1: think you would have to set up a situation whereby
Speaker 1: you could reliably induce phenomenologically authentic observations or encounters with
Speaker 1: sasquatches under some kind of like laboratory conditions, And you'd
Speaker 1: have to figure out what it is in the environment
Speaker 1: that is triggering these authentic experiences in people, because they
Speaker 1: don't have them in their homes or at the gym,
Speaker 1: or at the restaurant or at the grocery store, or
Speaker 1: in their cars, you know, while they're in the city
Speaker 1: or in urban areas, et cetera. And so I think
Speaker 1: it would take a lot to prove that, like, no,
Speaker 1: this is solely restricted to the human mind, and we
Speaker 1: can replicate it, and all these very real stimuli in
Speaker 1: the environment that people hear we can definitively attribute to
Speaker 1: other mammals, because if you couldn't, well, it's like, well,
Speaker 1: now you need a new cryptid. What other animal is
Speaker 1: producing that sound that we don't know about, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the most likely culprit would be the one
Speaker 2: that people actually claim to see in those areas instead
Speaker 2: of some new fantastical sort of thing that would be
Speaker 2: kind of pulled out of your butt.
Speaker 1: I guess you know, oh, your preacher to the choir.
Speaker 1: But I'm go with the thought experiment. What would it take?
Speaker 2: Oh, no, I get it. Yeah, what a take? I
Speaker 2: mean that, you know. I mean the BA has gotten
Speaker 2: better looks at sasquatches than I have, you know. I
Speaker 2: mean I've seen one, maybe two, and neither sighting was great.
Speaker 2: One it is through a thermal image, or the other
Speaker 2: one is at a great distance, if that's what I
Speaker 2: saw it all. But the thing I keep coming back to,
Speaker 2: at least lately, is that I go out to the
Speaker 2: woods one to three days a week, and I'm going
Speaker 2: to areas where oftentimes I don't even know I'm going
Speaker 2: to go. They're at that particular location. I don't even
Speaker 2: know I'm going there. No one else does. My wife
Speaker 2: doesn't know where I am. The guys at the shop,
Speaker 2: my employees and friends don't know where I am going.
Speaker 2: No one knows because I don't even know when I
Speaker 2: set out, and I kind of make up my mind
Speaker 2: on the drive out there, Oh I'm going to go
Speaker 2: try that road. But yet I find occasionally I find
Speaker 2: footprints out there, and they're big. They're like fourteen inches.
Speaker 2: There's a seventeen inch one that I've seen more than
Speaker 2: once now in one of my areas. And these are
Speaker 2: these are footprints and not just individual footprints either, like
Speaker 2: the strange marks on the ground. Are these are trackways,
Speaker 2: you know, with with multiple footprints in them, spaced evenly
Speaker 2: and showing details and stuff. And that to me is
Speaker 2: pretty compelling. That, to me is pretty compelling that I'm
Speaker 2: on the right track here. So what would it take?
Speaker 2: Like I can write off my sightings because they're not
Speaker 2: that good, you know, but the footprint stuff, that would
Speaker 2: be hard for me to do so, And again, no
Speaker 2: one knows I'm going there. And if there's something about
Speaker 2: hoaxing that I know about is that hoaxers generally want
Speaker 2: their stuff to be found. They put in obvious places
Speaker 2: they would call them in, you know, to to various people.
Speaker 2: I've been hoaxed that way before. People don't generally hoax
Speaker 2: and then hope that somebody runs across them in these
Speaker 2: places that there's no reason to walk into. Right, So
Speaker 2: I guess someone would have to show me how they're
Speaker 2: how they're doing this, or that I am so gullible
Speaker 2: that and such a lousy tracker that I would think
Speaker 2: anything is a footprint even if it's not, which is
Speaker 2: probably that's probably much easier to prove actually than someone's
Speaker 2: out there hoaxing it. You know, I'm much more open
Speaker 2: to me being wrong, being mistaken than I am that
Speaker 2: somebody is out there hoaxing me in places that I
Speaker 2: don't even know I'm going to.
Speaker 3: I mean, that'd be great if it's if I say, oh,
Speaker 3: these these record you guys assume have been big for
Speaker 3: those years, are not there this It's like the tre
Speaker 3: Hala scream that Tom. Yeah, Steberg ended up filming the
Speaker 3: actual tiotie, making the sound like he got an on
Speaker 3: camera coming out of his mouth.
Speaker 2: So I was like, I don't think he filmed it.
Speaker 2: I think he just saw it and he was going
Speaker 2: to try to film it to be fair though whatever
Speaker 2: that's worth, okay, But yeah, he saw it with his
Speaker 2: own eyes. And as far as I'm concerned, as Tom
Speaker 2: Steinberg says something like that he observed, you can take
Speaker 2: that to the bank.
Speaker 3: He's probably the most cautious researcher I know for making
Speaker 3: statements on want something in there isn't.
Speaker 1: Like I said, I think first you'd have to eliminate
Speaker 1: the authentic experiences and then move on to Okay, well,
Speaker 1: once we eliminate that, now we have to deal with
Speaker 1: the other sounds, But when it comes to the authentic experiences.
Speaker 1: You know, I've always been very open and like, I've
Speaker 1: never had a clear sighting, I've not had a visual
Speaker 1: And so many people, you know, skeptics that are good
Speaker 1: friends of mine, will say like, well, isn't that enough
Speaker 1: proof for you that it can't be a biological animal.
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, then the alternative is that it's psychological,
Speaker 1: and I've equally not experienced that, and according to many skeptics,
Speaker 1: it's a wish fulfillment. Oh, people see it because they
Speaker 1: want to see it. It's like, well, I want to
Speaker 1: see it worse than just about anyone on the planet.
Speaker 1: And so if we're going to say that because I've
Speaker 1: not experienced it, it doesn't exist, then there's your grounds
Speaker 1: right there for saying that the psychological sasquatch doesn't exist,
Speaker 1: because well, why haven't I seen fifty of them? By now?
Speaker 1: Why did John Green never see one? You know, there's
Speaker 1: a whole list of people who devoted their lives and
Speaker 1: a lot of field time to trying to see one
Speaker 1: that never had a clear visual And so you know,
Speaker 1: you can't have it both ways versus you know, there's
Speaker 1: there's plenty of animals that do exist that I've not
Speaker 1: seen with my own eyes in the wild, like wolverines
Speaker 1: for example. You know, not that I've spent a tremendous
Speaker 1: amount of time wolverine country, but I have spent some
Speaker 1: and I've never seen a wolverine in the wild. Now, yes,
Speaker 1: there's footage and we all know they exist, But just
Speaker 1: as an example from personal experience, I would never look
Speaker 1: at that and go, well, you know, I ain't buying
Speaker 1: it until i'd see it for myself. That'd be pretty silly.
Speaker 1: But if we're going for this, you know, biological hypothesis
Speaker 1: versus or as opposed to a psychological hypothesis, then well
Speaker 1: then why am I not experiencing that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the whole premise of your book, you know,
Speaker 2: from cover to cover, that's the premise. Psychological or biological.
Speaker 2: Let's take a look and weigh the evidence.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and spoiler alert, there's a lot of both. I
Speaker 1: think that happens because even if the biological is born out,
Speaker 1: there's certainly psychological components. But in terms of this uni
Speaker 1: dimensional analysis that the sasquatch doesn't exist, therefore, any authentic
Speaker 1: experience has to just be a wish fulfillment or you know,
Speaker 1: a delusion. It's like, okay, fair enough, then I'm still
Speaker 1: waiting for that to happen to me. I guess I
Speaker 1: must not have that component, you know, I'm not arrogant
Speaker 1: enough to think that I would be immune to that.
Speaker 1: That's what's so funny about a lot of the skeptical arguments.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, you know, people have false memories, and
Speaker 1: so you can genuinely believe you saw an animal that
Speaker 1: was never there. It's like, oh, really, how many of
Speaker 1: the animals that you've seen in your life do you
Speaker 1: assume actually weren't there? Or do you think that just
Speaker 1: everyone else is subject to false memories but not you?
Speaker 1: You know, what do you mean? It's like, okay, well
Speaker 1: you've seen deer when you're driving. I want you to
Speaker 1: think back and then as sign what percentage of those
Speaker 1: deer were not actually there? Well, it doesn't happen to me,
Speaker 1: I mean for other people. It's like, of course that's
Speaker 1: what you mean. Or you know, memories are fallible, you
Speaker 1: can't rely on memory at all. Okay, well, how many
Speaker 1: of your memories of your life experiences do you assume
Speaker 1: to be entirely fictitious. Probably zero. You know, there's things
Speaker 1: you might remember better than others. You might admit to yourself, well,
Speaker 1: I don't really remember it all that well. But it
Speaker 1: is funny to see people constantly making these broad generalizations
Speaker 1: about humankind, but those never apply to them. And so
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say it couldn't happen to me.
Speaker 1: I just find it interesting that of all the years
Speaker 1: and the thousands of days and nights and many thousands
Speaker 1: of hours I've spent actively looking for a sasquatch and
Speaker 1: hoping and wishing and you know, begging the universe, praying
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it, to see one, I haven't.
Speaker 1: And so I don't necessarily buy that like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, people just see what they want to see. Sorry,
Speaker 1: it ain't that easy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, I mean I haven't had a great study,
Speaker 3: Like I haven't had like a in the headlights up
Speaker 3: close or daylight where I got to see it see it,
Speaker 3: like see it move and walk and you know, see
Speaker 3: its face, you know, clearly, like where you get to
Speaker 3: look at the eye or something like that. You know,
Speaker 3: it's like I'm dying for like a good detailed sighting.
Speaker 1: Absolutely we're in the same boat there, so.
Speaker 2: We keep on going. Well, you know, speaking of being wrong.
Speaker 2: I know we're kind of coming to the end of this,
Speaker 2: this this dance for this week. But you know, remember
Speaker 2: last week or last time I was, I commented that
Speaker 2: that I might have misspoken, and I want what I
Speaker 2: wanted to say was that bonobos are more closely related
Speaker 2: than chimpanzees. Remember that whole that whole thing that we
Speaker 2: went through, Matt, Yeah, you weren't there, but that's one
Speaker 2: of these examples of memories, right, But maybe did you
Speaker 2: listen to the podcast, Bobo, Yeah, I heard it. Okay,
Speaker 2: Well it turns out I was wrong and I was
Speaker 2: corrected once again. So talk about being wrong, and I'll
Speaker 2: say it again. If you're talking about bigfoot for a
Speaker 2: living like we do, you're probably going to say some
Speaker 2: incorrect things sometimes. So again, a good friend, doctor Hogan Cheryl,
Speaker 2: who was a guest on our podcast back in the day,
Speaker 2: I got a text from him a few days ago
Speaker 2: saying that is it is incorrect. Although there is a
Speaker 2: there's a small faction of primatologists that advocate for that
Speaker 2: based on Bonobo's peaceful demeanor rather peaceful demeanor compared to chimpanzees.
Speaker 2: But what he told me was that the last common
Speaker 2: ancest sure between Bonobo's and chimpanzees was about three and
Speaker 2: three or four million years ago, three and a half
Speaker 2: million years ago, whereas the last common ancestor between humans
Speaker 2: and chimpanzees was about six six and a half million
Speaker 2: years ago. So therefore we are equally close closely related
Speaker 2: to Bonobo's and chimpanzees because their common ancestor is much
Speaker 2: more recent, about half the distance back than the humans
Speaker 2: and chimpanzees' last common ancestor. So once again I sit
Speaker 2: here corrected. So thank you very much for correcting me.
Speaker 2: And of course everybody is willing, or everybody is. I'm
Speaker 2: willing to listen to anybody who wants to correct me.
Speaker 2: And I always appreciate supporting research papers and all that
Speaker 2: sort of stuff, because I am a learner about bigfoot
Speaker 2: and primatology and paleo anthropology and everything like that. Certainly
Speaker 2: not an expert. I'm just a learner like everybody else.
Speaker 2: So keep it coming, guys, appreciate it. Thanks doctor V.
Speaker 3: Sherup. I'm gonna getting more into the the last couple
Speaker 3: of years, getting more into the pale anthropology by you
Speaker 3: and Matt obviously are have delved into it deep for
Speaker 3: a long time. But there's a lot of stuff. I mean,
Speaker 3: we'll get to it the next time about the articles,
Speaker 3: but I can't wait to talk about that. I found
Speaker 3: that pretty fascinating.
Speaker 2: It's I think it's it's not mandatory, but it might
Speaker 2: as well be mandatory. Like if you really take the
Speaker 2: bigfoot subject seriously and you want to be a student
Speaker 2: of the bigfoot subject, paleoanthropology is kind of required reading
Speaker 2: because these things fit into our family tree somewhere and
Speaker 2: where that is, I don't know, no one does, but
Speaker 2: we can learn that. It's kind of like, you know,
Speaker 2: we study the ape species to learn more about ourselves
Speaker 2: essentially at the end of the day. Yeah, yeah, we
Speaker 2: want to learn about o ring oftans, we want to
Speaker 2: learn about guerrillas. But at the same time, they hold
Speaker 2: a mirror up to our own species in a lot
Speaker 2: of different ways, and we should be studying human evolution
Speaker 2: for the exact same reason. The fact that like uh
Speaker 2: sasquatch hands are are are more similar to like Ostralla
Speaker 2: pithesene hands than they are to gorilla hands. That tells
Speaker 2: us something, because anatomy reflects behavior, you know, very directly
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways. And I think that everyone
Speaker 2: who is a serious student of the sasquatch subject should
Speaker 2: probably look into or at least dabble in paleoanthropology. I
Speaker 2: think you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't. I've
Speaker 2: started reading Debbie argues book Little Species, Big Mystery. I
Speaker 2: think that's a name of it. It's upstairs. I don't
Speaker 2: have the cover in front of you, but I'm pretty
Speaker 2: sure that's the title of it. And she is a
Speaker 2: pale anthropologist I believe, who is looking into the Homo
Speaker 2: floresiensis subject. And she's also an advocate of them being
Speaker 2: a more archaic species than say Homorectus, which is a
Speaker 2: very commonly thrown around, you know, diagnosis of them, I guess.
Speaker 2: But just last night, in the very very first chapter,
Speaker 2: that's all I've gotten through so far, she was talking
Speaker 2: about how if you look at the end side of
Speaker 2: the cranium, you can see signs of where arteries attached
Speaker 2: and in like feed blood to the brain, and therefore
Speaker 2: you can kind of figure out what part of the
Speaker 2: brains are. The brain is getting more you know, more
Speaker 2: more advanced, more developed, and then that that gives some
Speaker 2: sort of reflection or some sort of hint as to
Speaker 2: the cognitive ability of the species. And it's like, well, well,
Speaker 2: mind blowing, mind blowing stuff, right, So yeah, again, everybody
Speaker 2: should be looking into something like this. And if I may,
Speaker 2: you know, one of the things that really turned me
Speaker 2: on to the palaeo anthropology thing that I really really
Speaker 2: enjoyed are a number of books by Ian Tattersall. So
Speaker 2: if you check out Ian Ian Tattersall stuff. I think
Speaker 2: he's the guy in charge of the human evolution stuff
Speaker 2: at the Museum in New York and the Naturalizer Museum
Speaker 2: in New York, and several of his books like Masters
Speaker 2: of the Planet was I think with the first one
Speaker 2: I read and then I read another one, what is
Speaker 2: it stretching my memory here.
Speaker 1: The rickety Cossack.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the case of the Rickety Cossack, I think
Speaker 2: is what it was. The books are very very it's
Speaker 2: kind of like a chronological walkthrough of major paleoanthropological discoveries
Speaker 2: and consequences through through all the time. Basically because you know,
Speaker 2: back in I think the first hominin fossil that was
Speaker 2: discovered that people started taken seriously was like in the
Speaker 2: mid eighteen hundreds, and it was a Neanderthal Neanderthal cranium
Speaker 2: if I remember, right, and that's where people went like
Speaker 2: what humans evolved too, you know, and like what we
Speaker 2: just weren't here all the time like this? You know,
Speaker 2: it's like, no, of course not, why would we were
Speaker 2: subject to all the natural forces that all the other
Speaker 2: animals are. And so he kind of walks us through
Speaker 2: from that point on to the present and the mistakes
Speaker 2: that were made, the the successes. They're just fantastic books.
Speaker 2: So Ian Tattersall is I highly recommend reading his stuff.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of fun to read and makes it very,
Speaker 2: very digestible for the public.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I really want to read Debbie Argue's book. And I
Speaker 1: didn't know that she took the heterodox view, the sort
Speaker 1: of contrarian view, but given her surname and my predilection
Speaker 1: for nominal determinism, I guess I should have expected that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, doctor Meldrim suggests that I read that book, and
Speaker 2: so far I'm loving it. Well, should we close this
Speaker 2: one down and go to the member section.
Speaker 1: There's a few more member questions that came in since
Speaker 1: you and I recorded the members Q and A, so
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's some here that would be great for
Speaker 1: the Bobes. And then for those of you who are
Speaker 1: listening to this main podcast that are members. I did
Speaker 1: receive an anonymous tip related to the Pigeons that I'm
Speaker 1: going to ask Bobo about. And so if you're not
Speaker 1: a member and you want to learn about the Pigeons,
Speaker 1: which trust me you very much, do, you should consider
Speaker 1: becoming a member.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, the Pigeons is the gang that Bobo
Speaker 2: was involved in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you should read that the intro whatever on the
Speaker 3: Patreon page. You should put that out to the public. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously on the member episode, Cliff and I
Speaker 1: learned great deal about Bobo. But then when I was
Speaker 1: posting the announcement of the episode in this particular aspect
Speaker 1: of Bobo's life, I spent a lot of time sitting
Speaker 1: down and writing an overview of what we had learned.
Speaker 1: But this is spoiler free, so you're gonna hear a
Speaker 1: lot of things if you've become a member.
Speaker 3: But I wrote the.
Speaker 1: Pigeons were a blight upon the once pristine streets of
Speaker 1: Manhattan Beach and represented the gross degeneration of the American
Speaker 1: middle class. This preposterous syndicate of pseudo delinquent's most menacing
Speaker 1: act was the theft of ironing boards, no doubt a
Speaker 1: symbol of their disdain for decency and order. They could
Speaker 1: often be found roosting in trees and cooing like an
Speaker 1: unholy communion of Avian madmen. Their vocalizations represented what one
Speaker 1: might generously describe as territorial dispute calls for people with
Speaker 1: an abundance of leisure time. Their initiation rights were as
Speaker 1: insipid as their penchant for laundry oriented larceny. New recruits,
Speaker 1: referred to as eggs, a cynical mockery of natural order,
Speaker 1: were subjected to the demeaning ritual of the daw pile.
Speaker 1: Only after enduring this embarrassment were neophytes permitted to hatch
Speaker 1: into full pigeons, an evolution that must have seemed more
Speaker 1: significant to them than to any of the unfortunate onlookers
Speaker 1: who witnessed it. They're so called havoc, which they believe
Speaker 1: to be the height of subversive genius, was undoubtedly intended
Speaker 1: to ruffle the collective plumage of the Southern Californian suburban elite,
Speaker 1: a testament to the failure of society to instill any
Speaker 1: sense of dignity or purpose in its youth. In hindsight,
Speaker 1: the Pigeons will be remembered as both a towering monument
Speaker 1: to the audacity of the human spirit and as an
Speaker 1: instantiation of the conceptual confluence of privilege and boredom.
Speaker 3: That's perfect.
Speaker 2: That was amazing. It was amazing.
Speaker 1: But so yeah, side to become a member if you
Speaker 1: want to hear the first hand account of the rise
Speaker 1: and rain of the pigeons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, go to the website big for to be
Speaker 2: on podcast, hit podcast, hit that membership button and they'll
Speaker 2: tell you everything you need to know.
Speaker 3: All right, folks, it's another episode of wrapped up here,
Speaker 3: and thanks to Matt for joining us and giving some
Speaker 3: good insights, and thank you to the listeners, and thank
Speaker 3: you to our Patreon family that we're going to go
Speaker 3: join now. You're missing out if you're not going to
Speaker 3: be there. But until next week, y'all keep it squatchy.
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
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