Speaker 1: At a book.
Speaker 2: If you'd like to be able to listen to the
Speaker 2: show without ads and have full access to bonus content,
Speaker 2: that's an option. To find out how, please go to
Speaker 2: Dogmanencounters dot com forward Slash podcast. If you listen to
Speaker 2: last Friday Night Show episode six nineteen, you heard tonight's
Speaker 2: guest Wiley Birou come on and talk about a pretty
Speaker 2: darn unnerving dogman encounter he had. Well, he had so
Speaker 2: much to share with us that night on that show
Speaker 2: that I didn't have enough time to ask him questions
Speaker 2: about that experience. So I asked him if he'd be
Speaker 2: interested in coming back on to answer those questions, to
Speaker 2: do a Q and A basically, and he agreed, So
Speaker 2: here he is back to do that. Hevn said all that,
Speaker 2: Thanks again so much for coming back, Wiley. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Hey, Vic, it's no problem, my pleasure. How you doing today?
Speaker 2: Doing good? But more importantly, how are you?
Speaker 1: I'm doing excellent. We got a lot of snow here
Speaker 1: in New Jersey. I've been shoveling out the driveway. I
Speaker 1: shoveled out my neighbor's driveway. But other than that, we're
Speaker 1: doing really well.
Speaker 2: Well, that's good as long as you can say that
Speaker 2: that's a great thing.
Speaker 1: Wiley.
Speaker 2: For anyone who missed episode six nineteen, please give us
Speaker 2: a brief bio in yourself.
Speaker 1: All right. So I grew up in New Jersey, and
Speaker 1: ever since I was a little kid, my mother took
Speaker 1: me I'm hiking across the street. I grew up in
Speaker 1: a preserved area, which was a thirty six thousand acre
Speaker 1: part preserved for wildlife, which is pretty It's one of
Speaker 1: the largest expansions of preserved land with the highest density
Speaker 1: of population surrounding it. So growing up in New Jersey,
Speaker 1: I was actually really lucky to have the outdoors just
Speaker 1: right at the tip of my fingertips. So I was
Speaker 1: able to explore and go hiking as a kid, which
Speaker 1: really drew me into like pursuing a career towards the outdoors.
Speaker 1: So after high school, I went to a wilderness school
Speaker 1: in Washington State where I learned to survive in the outdoors.
Speaker 1: The experience was really amazing. The experience was about a
Speaker 1: year long, and after the year long survival program, I
Speaker 1: ended up moving back to New Jersey. I did AmeriCorps,
Speaker 1: where I volunteered all around the country helping different people
Speaker 1: during natural disasters, wild forest firefighters, and basically doing other
Speaker 1: service based projects around the country. So that's not nature oriented,
Speaker 1: but giving back to people is just something else that
Speaker 1: I'm very passionate about. So I did amer Corps and
Speaker 1: then I ended up wanting to move back to Washington State.
Speaker 1: And when I moved back to Washington State, I ended
Speaker 1: up getting my four year degree in wildlife biology and
Speaker 1: forest management. While I was in Washington State, I did
Speaker 1: a bunch of hiking, mountaineering, backpacking, and it was just
Speaker 1: absolutely incredible. But I eventually moved back to New Jersey,
Speaker 1: where I became an arborist. I learned all the tree
Speaker 1: species here in New Jersey, I learned how to take
Speaker 1: care of all the plants and shrubs, and you know,
Speaker 1: doing the grind in New Jersey was just rough. And
Speaker 1: I eventually moved back to Oregon. I moved back to
Speaker 1: Oregon in twenty twenty five and I became a wild
Speaker 1: and forest firefighter. And I actually just recently moved back
Speaker 1: to New Jersey. So basically, throughout my life since I
Speaker 1: was eighteen, I've just been pursuing a career involving the
Speaker 1: outdoor and also service based projects, like, I really love
Speaker 1: giving back and that's kind of what drew me to
Speaker 1: becoming a firefighter. Firefighting you get to be in the
Speaker 1: outdoors and you get to like really help people. So,
Speaker 1: to make a long story short, that's where I'm at today.
Speaker 1: I'm back in New Jersey. I'm looking for work. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a little bit about myself. I'm really into the
Speaker 1: outdoors and I really like to give back.
Speaker 2: Listening to you talk about all the things you've done
Speaker 2: and do, it's clear that you're as nice and benevolent
Speaker 2: as the day is long. I'm really impressed. I really am.
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you, Vic, thank you. Yeah, helping people is
Speaker 1: what makes the world turn around. If you have a
Speaker 1: chance to help somebody or something, even if it's a plant,
Speaker 1: do it because that helps the world go around.
Speaker 2: You're a good man. Like I told you before, I
Speaker 2: just hope you never change. For anyone who missed that
Speaker 2: show Friday night, please give us a quick rundown of
Speaker 2: your encounter now.
Speaker 1: Sure thing. So, I had been on a seventeen day
Speaker 1: camping trip. I had a bunch of vacation time saved
Speaker 1: up from working in the tree service industry. I'd been
Speaker 1: working in the tree service industry for about three years,
Speaker 1: and if I didn't use my vacation time, it wasn't
Speaker 1: going to roll over or I wouldn't be able to
Speaker 1: get to use it. So in right before January, I
Speaker 1: decided to go on seventeen day camping trip to Florida.
Speaker 1: While I was in Florida at the time, I was
Speaker 1: in a really intense relationship. I thought I was with
Speaker 1: the girl that was going to marry. We were planning
Speaker 1: on having kids, getting married, and just having a whole
Speaker 1: life together. But anyway, it ended up in a big
Speaker 1: broken heart. So she actually dumped me while I was
Speaker 1: on the trip, and one thing led to another. I
Speaker 1: was just super heartbroken. This was a first some I
Speaker 1: had to like move back into my parents' house in
Speaker 1: my thirties, and it was really a difficult situation. And
Speaker 1: one evening I was I was having a moment. I
Speaker 1: was just feeling the feelings and I was here alone
Speaker 1: at my parents' house and I decided to go on
Speaker 1: a walk into the forest at night without a flashlight
Speaker 1: because this is where I grew up, Like the forest
Speaker 1: out here is my serenity. I come out. I go
Speaker 1: into the forest to find peace. But at this moment
Speaker 1: in time, I wasn't in the best head space, and
Speaker 1: I went into the forest right across the street from
Speaker 1: my house, this thirty six thousand acre preserve which has
Speaker 1: a has a recorded Bigfoot sighting. But you know, that
Speaker 1: was not my concern at the moment. I just wanted
Speaker 1: to go out into the forest. There's this spot out
Speaker 1: there called Devil's half Acre, and it's basically it's an
Speaker 1: unknown spot. Like you could look up Devil's half Acre
Speaker 1: and the Saralands. I'm sure you'll find something, but there's
Speaker 1: not too many people that know where it is. I
Speaker 1: think I might be the one person who actually knows
Speaker 1: the location today who lives in Illsborough. But there's no
Speaker 1: trails that take you there. It's off the beaten path,
Speaker 1: so anyway, it's not a far walk from my parents' house.
Speaker 1: It's basically a ten minute walk through the forest. And
Speaker 1: after going to the Wilderness School in Washington, I got
Speaker 1: really used to hiking at night without a flashlight. The
Speaker 1: more you hike at night, the better night vision gets,
Speaker 1: and I'm always trying to practice that. So I went
Speaker 1: out into the forest at night with a broken heart,
Speaker 1: really mourning this whole relationship, not really exactly knowing how
Speaker 1: to express my emotions and stuff. So I had one
Speaker 1: of those moments where you look at the sky and
Speaker 1: scream why me. So I was out there just having
Speaker 1: a moment, letting go, and all of the sudden I
Speaker 1: heard a growl and the growl was clearly a canine,
Speaker 1: which just caught me off guard because after studying wildlife biology,
Speaker 1: you really learned the habits of canines and just wasn't
Speaker 1: the typical place that you'd hear a canine of that size.
Speaker 1: So I'm out there and like sure in the forest
Speaker 1: where I was, I know there are fox dens and
Speaker 1: stuff like that, but the growl that I heard was
Speaker 1: so low and scary that clearly I decided I need
Speaker 1: to leave. When you're in the forest by yourself with
Speaker 1: no flashlight and something growls at you, it's really unsettling.
Speaker 1: And this forest growing up next to it it's my home.
Speaker 1: So I've I grew up kind of feeling like I
Speaker 1: was king of the forest here. Nothing could really bother me,
Speaker 1: and if there's anything out there, they would respect me.
Speaker 1: So I went out into the forest with a broken heart,
Speaker 1: and I was just being loud and obnoxious and kind
Speaker 1: of disrespectful to whatever is out there. This park is
Speaker 1: closed at night, there's no access to people can't access
Speaker 1: it during the evening. So people going out into the
Speaker 1: forest and being extra loud, it's just, uh, it doesn't
Speaker 1: really happen often. So I'm out there, I hear a growl,
Speaker 1: and immediately I knew I need to leave, So I
Speaker 1: just I got up and I started trying to make
Speaker 1: my way out of the forest as fast as possible.
Speaker 1: So as I'm coming out of the forest, there's a
Speaker 1: road you have to cross to get into a field.
Speaker 1: There's where my parents' house is located. There's a one
Speaker 1: neighbor by my parents' house and a field, and I
Speaker 1: basically the mountain side is on the other streets other
Speaker 1: side of the street. So I'm coming down out of
Speaker 1: the forest off of the mountain. I crossed the street
Speaker 1: into the field and I start making my way towards
Speaker 1: There's a couple of green belts that lead to another field.
Speaker 1: So there's a field that I'm crossing into a green belt,
Speaker 1: and another field than my neighbor's house and then my
Speaker 1: parents' property. So I'm coming down out of the forest
Speaker 1: and I cross the street and I get into this
Speaker 1: field and I'm make my way through the green belt
Speaker 1: and I get into the next field, and I hear
Speaker 1: whatever was growling at me was following me, and I
Speaker 1: could hear it coming through the woods kind of in
Speaker 1: the direction that I'm coming in, and that really kind
Speaker 1: of freaked me out because that's just not typical animal behavior.
Speaker 1: So basically that scared me to my wits end, and
Speaker 1: I ended up running through the field and I make
Speaker 1: it to the green belt that leads to my parents' property,
Speaker 1: and I make my way over to the door that
Speaker 1: I would enter to get into the room that I'm
Speaker 1: staying in, which is the room that I'm saying in
Speaker 1: is basically a photography studio. There's two buildings on my
Speaker 1: parents' property, the main house and this old Amish barn
Speaker 1: that my dad turned into a landscape architecture office and
Speaker 1: a photography studio. So right now, while I'm in between places,
Speaker 1: I'm staying in my parents' photography studio, and at that
Speaker 1: time I was as well. So I'm getting through this.
Speaker 1: I ran through the field and I'm coming through the
Speaker 1: green belt to go into my property, and I make
Speaker 1: my way through my property and I go into the
Speaker 1: door and I leave the door open, and I kind
Speaker 1: of just listened to see what was following me. And
Speaker 1: I can hear something big coming through the field and
Speaker 1: it's panting, and I got really kind of nervous. I
Speaker 1: was nervous the whole time. But this canine clearly canine.
Speaker 1: I thought it was a bear at first. Well, I
Speaker 1: didn't think it was a bear, but it looked like
Speaker 1: a bear. And this creature walks basically right in front
Speaker 1: of me through my parents yard. I could just see
Speaker 1: the shadow of it, silhouetted and whatever it was like,
Speaker 1: it was huge, and I could hear it breathing as
Speaker 1: it walking right past my door. And it goes across
Speaker 1: my parents' yard into the next field and I look
Speaker 1: at it sit down in the field and it's doing
Speaker 1: a weird growl and bark and it was making noises,
Speaker 1: and I decided to whistle at it. And when I
Speaker 1: whistled at it, it stopped making the noises and it
Speaker 1: registered my whistle and then it continued with this growl. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: I can see it in the field over sitting canine like,
Speaker 1: and it starts growling and barking and it did this
Speaker 1: crazy the growl bark that turned into a howl. And
Speaker 1: after studying wildlife biology for so many years, like my
Speaker 1: name is Wilie and coyotes are kind of my spirit animals,
Speaker 1: so I've actually done some coyote research. I've fed coyotes
Speaker 1: from my hand. I also got a chance to do
Speaker 1: wolf research and Idaho and I got to track wolves
Speaker 1: with this amazing researcher. So I'm very familiar with canines,
Speaker 1: and this was a canine that I'd never heard before,
Speaker 1: and it struck me, it struck me to be something different,
Speaker 1: and the sound it made was just unlike anything I've
Speaker 1: ever heard, and just being in that situation where we're
Speaker 1: getting stocked by an animal from a distance like that,
Speaker 1: it's just not like any other animal behavior. And for
Speaker 1: the next couple of weeks afterwards, which was really really unusual,
Speaker 1: because I had no idea what exactly I was looking at,
Speaker 1: except that my intuition told me that this was not
Speaker 1: a wolf, not a coyote. And I had heard of
Speaker 1: dog man before, and that's exactly what my intuition was saying,
Speaker 1: like this is not something normal, this is you know.
Speaker 1: I was in denial, but there's nothing else that could
Speaker 1: have been other than a dog man in my opinion.
Speaker 1: So basically, the next couple of weeks afterwards, I had
Speaker 1: these really weird dreams where something was looking at me
Speaker 1: through the window and it freaked me out so much
Speaker 1: I tried covering the windows. The windows in this room
Speaker 1: had no shades, and I started locking the doors every night,
Speaker 1: which I've never done before. And I actually just moved
Speaker 1: back here from Oregon and I haven't had any weird
Speaker 1: feelings and I haven't had the sense that I need
Speaker 1: to lock the door. But so that was just like
Speaker 1: a really really reaction from the experience that I had,
Speaker 1: and that's basically what I had. That's my dog man experience.
Speaker 1: I had something tracked me and follow me from the forest,
Speaker 1: which is just really odd animal behavior. I've been in
Speaker 1: close proximity to mountain lions, and I've been stalked by
Speaker 1: a mountain lion, but the difference between being stalked by
Speaker 1: a predator like that is their stealth like the mountain lion.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize there was even stalking me until the
Speaker 1: last second order we made eye contact. This creature, whatever
Speaker 1: it was, was stalking me and letting me know that
Speaker 1: it was stalking me. It was keeping a healthy distance away,
Speaker 1: but it clearly was escorting me out of the forest,
Speaker 1: which was I knew and not normal animal behavior. And
Speaker 1: so this experience like really freaked me out and I
Speaker 1: ended up looking up a dog man. I looked up
Speaker 1: anything I could. I did a bunch of research on
Speaker 1: dog man after this experience, because my intuition was telling
Speaker 1: me that this had to be a dog man and
Speaker 1: that's how I found your podcast. And after listening to
Speaker 1: your podcast, I heard a few other encounters that were
Speaker 1: that took place in the same county, and that just
Speaker 1: kind of verified it. Literally, there was a gentleman that
Speaker 1: was on your show that I think was probably only
Speaker 1: a few miles away. So I kind of led me
Speaker 1: to believe that I might be in a dog man
Speaker 1: hot spot. And also after that fact, my parents saw
Speaker 1: something weird. I told my parents about the encounter and
Speaker 1: they kind of laughed at me. But literally, within that
Speaker 1: same week, my mom saw two canine figures. She thought
Speaker 1: they were deer at first, but when she was inspecting
Speaker 1: them looking at them, she realized those weren't deer, that
Speaker 1: the hair was way too dark and she realized that
Speaker 1: they were canine canines out there, some kind of canine.
Speaker 1: She didn't know what they were she but they, she said,
Speaker 1: they're as big as dogs. And when she noticed them,
Speaker 1: they noticed her, and they dashed away like lightning, faster
Speaker 1: than any animal she'd ever seen. And like maybe a
Speaker 1: week later, my dad witnessed the same two creatures that
Speaker 1: were when my mom saw them. They were in the
Speaker 1: back of our property. When my dad saw them, they
Speaker 1: were on the outer edge of one of the fields,
Speaker 1: and the same thing happened. My dad saw them and
Speaker 1: they noticed him, and my dad said they they ran
Speaker 1: like faster than an the animal he'd ever seen. And
Speaker 1: my parents called me up and they're like, hey, Wiley,
Speaker 1: we saw a dog man. And they were kind of
Speaker 1: joking about it, and they told me there what they saw,
Speaker 1: and yeah, so they were kind of joking about it.
Speaker 1: They don't really believe that they saw a dog man,
Speaker 1: but they definitely saw something that, you know, got their attention.
Speaker 1: And after my mom saw that, she started taking pictures.
Speaker 1: She found one picture of like a giant canine track
Speaker 1: right outside of our our barn, and our barn door
Speaker 1: has a cat door in it, and right in front
Speaker 1: of the cat door was this gigantic canine track in
Speaker 1: the snow. And uh yeah, So, like I don't think
Speaker 1: my parents really believe what they saw, but like, deep down,
Speaker 1: I think they know there's something out here that's strange,
Speaker 1: because every once in a while they'll tell me this,
Speaker 1: not every once in a while, like once they told
Speaker 1: me they saw a track and they saw canines. But
Speaker 1: that's basically all the activity that I've had that they've had.
Speaker 1: I've been in organ this whole time, but since I've
Speaker 1: been back, the few days i've been back, I haven't
Speaker 1: had any activity. But that's kind of what happened. To
Speaker 1: sum it up, Yeah, that's a lot.
Speaker 2: It really is. A dog mean encounter can teach you
Speaker 2: a lot about yourself when all said and done with
Speaker 2: regards to that encounter, of course, would you say that
Speaker 2: the bulk of what you learn from it? Would you
Speaker 2: say the bulk fit was outward or inward?
Speaker 1: I would say it was. That's a that's a good question.
Speaker 3: Well, basically, uh, I would say it was somewhat bold because, uh,
Speaker 3: basically I started researching the creature and heard a lot
Speaker 3: more encounters that seemed very credible.
Speaker 1: But you know, it did seem to test my feelings
Speaker 1: and emotions. And you know, after having experience an experience
Speaker 1: like that, I I've never really felt scared to live
Speaker 1: where I've lived like this, this forest here in New
Speaker 1: Jersey has always been my sanctuary, my safe space, and
Speaker 1: I've never really like felt too nervous. But after having
Speaker 1: that encounter, I I was honestly scared to like go outside,
Speaker 1: and where I'm staying at right now, you have to
Speaker 1: go outside in order to use the bathrooms and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. So after having that encounter, really it really
Speaker 1: kind of gave me PTSD. For a while, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: leave the door unlocked and I was trying to cover
Speaker 1: up the windows because I was having these vivid dreams
Speaker 1: that something was watching me. But you know, moving back
Speaker 1: to New Jersey and moving out of my parents' house,
Speaker 1: that PTSD sort of simmered away. But yeah, it was
Speaker 1: definitely a little bit of both internal and external, because
Speaker 1: it was internal at the moment because I was like
Speaker 1: terrified of my parents' property for a while. And I
Speaker 1: would say it's also external because I dove into this
Speaker 1: topic and just started doing so much research and now
Speaker 1: I believe that there's definitely something out there, so a
Speaker 1: little bit of both.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how it normally goes. And sometimes the only
Speaker 2: way you can learn certain things about yourself is by
Speaker 2: having a profound experience like the one.
Speaker 1: That you had that night.
Speaker 2: With that in mind, and with that being said, what
Speaker 2: surprised you most about what you learned about yourself after
Speaker 2: having that.
Speaker 3: Encounter probably the fact that I have a craving for more.
Speaker 1: I want to learn more about the subject. I'm definitely
Speaker 1: I would like to have a better sighting. You know,
Speaker 1: you better watch out for what you wish for. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, studying wildlife biology and tracking lousive animals,
Speaker 1: the fact that there's something that could be unknown out
Speaker 1: there just really intrigues me, and I want to learn more.
Speaker 1: I'm not really out here to prove it that anything
Speaker 1: is real or that exists. I really want to unpay
Speaker 1: these creatures the respect that they deserve and give them
Speaker 1: their space. But I definitely want to learn more. And
Speaker 1: you know, after having a scary situation like that, you
Speaker 1: would think that maybe I'd be intimidated to learn more,
Speaker 1: But just after so many life experiences that I've had,
Speaker 1: I realized, like sometimes pushing your comfort zones and doing
Speaker 1: something that scares you makes you stronger in the long run. So, like,
Speaker 1: though though this topic is unnerving and I don't really
Speaker 1: know what to think about the behavior of this creature,
Speaker 1: I am interested to learn more, especially after hearing people's
Speaker 1: encounters and stories. You know, you hear some that are
Speaker 1: obviously aggressive, and then sometimes you hear some that aren't.
Speaker 1: You know, mine mine was kind of unnerving and aggressive
Speaker 1: because when I had the chance to whistle and like
Speaker 1: kind of interact with the creature, I didn't get a warm,
Speaker 1: fuzzy like vibe. I got a growl and a howl,
Speaker 1: and it was clearly trying. It was clearly an aggressive
Speaker 1: behavior that it was trying to display. So with that said, uh,
Speaker 1: I think these are apex predators and you should always
Speaker 1: give your give these give animals their space. So it's
Speaker 1: just a touchy subject, you know, It's really difficult to
Speaker 1: figure out how to go about even trying to research
Speaker 1: something like this, and the research that I do is
Speaker 1: basically just for my own enlightenment. I'm you know, I
Speaker 1: don't really want to prove any any of these cryptos
Speaker 1: are real, so but I do want to know more
Speaker 1: about these creatures, and I would love to be able
Speaker 1: to study them. I'm fascinated by all nature and wildlife,
Speaker 1: and these creatures exist, you know, they're here, they're part
Speaker 1: of nature. So yeah, that's what really surprised me the most.
Speaker 2: Well, it's obviously you have a lot of curious You're
Speaker 2: obviously very intelligent, you love the outdoors, you love nature.
Speaker 2: It's only natural that you try to find out all
Speaker 2: you can about these guys. So yeah, that doesn't come
Speaker 2: as a surprise. Now, you just mentioned respect, and obviously
Speaker 2: you'd be the last person to ever intentionally disrespected dog men.
Speaker 2: But have you ever thought about the possibility that that
Speaker 2: dog men vocalize the way it did when you're listening
Speaker 2: to it just outside your door that night, because of
Speaker 2: you going into what just might have been its home,
Speaker 2: or it might have considered to be its home, i e.
Speaker 2: The Devil's half Acre and yelling why me, Uh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely think that I had something to do
Speaker 1: with it. You know, if these animals are out there
Speaker 1: and they're apex predators and they look at humans like
Speaker 1: you know, you know, what are big bodies of meat
Speaker 1: that can pretty easily be taken down I'm sure it was.
Speaker 1: Who knows what kind of hunting patterns I was disrupting,
Speaker 1: or any kind of piece I was disrupting. I'm sure
Speaker 1: these things don't really appreciate humans coming into their territory
Speaker 1: and being loud and disruptive. I don't think any animal
Speaker 1: would would appreciate that. Probably no human would either, So I,
Speaker 1: you know, it makes sense that I would get a
Speaker 1: reaction like that based off of how I was feeling
Speaker 1: and how I was acting and how loud I was being.
Speaker 1: Typically when I go into the forest, I try to
Speaker 1: keep a calm, a calm mind, and I try to
Speaker 1: be respectful and quiet and listen to the forest and
Speaker 1: usually have great positive experiences. But right that day I
Speaker 1: was I was I wasn't doing that at all. I
Speaker 1: was going out there with my feelings emotions. It's just
Speaker 1: interesting that, you know, I went out there and expressed
Speaker 1: these emotions and had another an emotional experience too. So
Speaker 1: it's weird that how that works. But I think if
Speaker 1: anyone went out there and was being really loud and
Speaker 1: abrasive and doing something wrong at that time of night,
Speaker 1: that they would have a similar experience. And there was
Speaker 1: another day where I went out there, and I had
Speaker 1: two little puppies and I went out. I went out
Speaker 1: hiking at night the sarlands with the puppies, and the
Speaker 1: whole time I didn't go very far. I like literally
Speaker 1: went on the first loop of the trail, and the
Speaker 1: whole time I was out there, my puppies were just
Speaker 1: cowering in fear, just whimpering, and uh, yeah, I turned
Speaker 1: around quick. But yeah, when you grew up in an
Speaker 1: area and you consider it your home, you kind of
Speaker 1: like feel like there's nothing out there that can harm you.
Speaker 1: But the reality is when you go out into the forest,
Speaker 1: you're out of your element to a certain extent, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean not out of our elements, but we as
Speaker 1: humans live in a little bubble. We're not living a
Speaker 1: primitive style of life, and you know, so like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like it's really important to respect the animals
Speaker 1: that call that their home.
Speaker 2: It it'd be nice if we were in charge, but
Speaker 2: in most cases we're not. And that's all there is
Speaker 2: to it. Like you just said, now, you just mentioned
Speaker 2: the negative feelings that you had that night, and when
Speaker 2: we spoke for the first time, you told me about
Speaker 2: the negative energy that you're putting off at the Devil's
Speaker 2: half Bacre. But before this all happened, you knew about
Speaker 2: dog men? Did you know about the tendency for negative
Speaker 2: emotions like that to tend to draw them in.
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. I'd heard about dog man because I'm into
Speaker 1: the bigfoot subject, but I never gave it like two cents.
Speaker 1: I never really thought much into the subject until I
Speaker 1: had this encounter. So also, growing up in New Jersey,
Speaker 1: it's so densely populated, you kind of feel like there's
Speaker 1: no predators out here. Cat fox. I think we have bobcat.
Speaker 1: I believe we do have mountain lion out here. I've
Speaker 1: seen sign, I've seen scat. But you know, if you
Speaker 1: ask a wildlife biologists in the area, they're going to
Speaker 1: say there's no mountain lions, and there's no wolves, and
Speaker 1: there's no big predators. The biggest predator probably they'd say
Speaker 1: it's our coyotes. I'm not really afraid of coyotes, And
Speaker 1: when I went out there, I was kind of thinking,
Speaker 1: I'm top predator and I have nothing to worry about.
Speaker 1: But I was quickly humbled. That's for sure. When you're
Speaker 1: when you're outside without a flashlight in the forest and
Speaker 1: you hear something gral at you flips that switch really quick.
Speaker 1: So I went from feeling like I was king of
Speaker 1: the forest to extremely vulnerable, like I could be taken
Speaker 1: out quick. So that's those are the vibes I was feeling.
Speaker 1: And I was not expecting that at all, to say
Speaker 1: the least.
Speaker 2: Well, you had no reason to expect it. Why do
Speaker 2: you think that dog man responded to your whistle the
Speaker 2: way it did?
Speaker 1: Oh, that's a really interesting question, because I wasn't expecting
Speaker 1: it to react to my whistle whatsoever. But you know
Speaker 1: it was, it was following me. I heard it close
Speaker 1: when I was in the forest yelling into the sky whimy.
Speaker 1: I heard it not too far away at that point.
Speaker 1: It had to have been like thirty feet. It was
Speaker 1: a close growl. Like Devil's half acre is literally half
Speaker 1: of an acre. So the Devil's half acre is this
Speaker 1: boulder field out in the middle of the forest. There's
Speaker 1: a creek that leads to Devil's half acre. Basically, there
Speaker 1: was rocks in the creek that get bigger and bigger
Speaker 1: and bigger until you can't hear the see the creek anymore.
Speaker 1: You could just hear it and they call it the
Speaker 1: Rumbling Rocks. But this there's a huge boulder field where
Speaker 1: there's boulders that are the size of school buses, huge
Speaker 1: boulders like mountain esque features right here in New Jersey.
Speaker 1: People that grew up in Hillsborough don't even know that
Speaker 1: there are mountainous features like that in this town. So
Speaker 1: Devil's half Acre, it's pretty hidden. But yeah, I was
Speaker 1: not thinking that I would be really disturbing anything out there.
Speaker 1: I you know, any wild animal too that could be
Speaker 1: out there. I would think that me yelling into the
Speaker 1: sky like I was so aggressively would have scared it away.
Speaker 1: You know, animals typically are afraid of humans and don't
Speaker 1: want anything to do with humans, even predators like mountain lions.
Speaker 1: They evolved to not hunt humans and typically if they
Speaker 1: hear a human, they're gonna leave. Same with bears, same
Speaker 1: with most predators. So I was out there thinking I
Speaker 1: was totally safe and totally fine, and here in a
Speaker 1: growl like that really caught me off guard.
Speaker 2: Well, you didn't have any reason to think that anything
Speaker 2: like that was going to happen, So you can't be
Speaker 2: faulted for that. Do you know how the place got
Speaker 2: its name. How the Devil's half Acre are in that name, That's.
Speaker 1: A great question. No, I do not know how Devil's
Speaker 1: half Aer got its name. I always wondered. That's definitely
Speaker 1: something I need to research, but I have no idea.
Speaker 1: But I'm sure there's a reason for it. Definitely. I
Speaker 1: think in the Sara Lens there are some secrets. Like
Speaker 1: you look at this forest and you just get an energy.
Speaker 1: There are some things out there, and it has a
Speaker 1: kind of a foreboding vibe to it, but at the
Speaker 1: same time, it's really inviting. It's a really beautiful place
Speaker 1: and a beautiful space. It's one of my safe spaces,
Speaker 1: so you know, knowing that there could be things lurking
Speaker 1: out there is a little unnerving. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: I feel like if I go out into the forest
Speaker 1: with a good headspace, I'll be fine. But I do
Speaker 1: not know how it got its name, and I would
Speaker 1: be I would love to know if anyone in New
Speaker 1: Jersey has heard of Devil's half Acre and has any
Speaker 1: idea of its history, I would I'm definitely interested.
Speaker 2: We don't know how it got that name, but I
Speaker 2: can guarantee you this. I'm sure it's not for a
Speaker 2: reason that's going to give us a warm and fuzzies.
Speaker 2: That's pretty much.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think there's like a some sort of history
Speaker 1: of like places being named devil and having some sort
Speaker 1: of sort of like negative history to it. So it's
Speaker 1: kind of interesting that there's like a place named Devil's
Speaker 1: half Acre right across the street. I have no clue
Speaker 1: why it's named that, but you know, I do know
Speaker 1: that it has a it did have a large Native
Speaker 1: American presence. Like when you're hiking through the Sarlans often
Speaker 1: you'll find tree Bend and I've actually found petroc glyphs
Speaker 1: that were carved on top of a boulder. And it's
Speaker 1: really cool because I'm uh. These petroc glyphs were found randomly,
Speaker 1: and in order to get to the top of the boulder,
Speaker 1: I had to climb a tree. I climbed a tree
Speaker 1: with a few of my friends to get on top
Speaker 1: of this boulder and there are all these petroc glyphs.
Speaker 1: And this was in high school, and we all put
Speaker 1: our own carved, our own names and pictures around the
Speaker 1: petrick lyfts. But I was never able to refine those
Speaker 1: petroc glyphs. I know exactly. I kind of know the
Speaker 1: general area where I did find them, but I haven't
Speaker 1: been able to find them again. But there is a
Speaker 1: large Native American presence and not now, but there was
Speaker 1: a large Native American presence in these in this forest.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that has anything to do with it,
Speaker 1: but I do know that there are a lot of
Speaker 1: dog Man's sidings near cemeteries Native American cemeteries. I don't
Speaker 1: know if there is a American cemetery across the street,
Speaker 1: but you can find tree bends and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: That sure does sound like a neat area, It really does.
Speaker 2: Could you feel it in your chest when the dog
Speaker 2: Man made those vocalizations after you whistled at it?
Speaker 1: I did not. I did not, And I have felt
Speaker 1: that sensation before, so I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: But no, I didn't feel it in my chest. So
Speaker 1: I don't think that's like says anything in particular. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I was definitely able to hear it, but it didn't
Speaker 1: like vibrate my core or anything like that. But it
Speaker 1: was and it wasn't like crazy loud, but it was
Speaker 1: definitely directed towards me, and it was and a very
Speaker 1: aggressive growl bark, howl. But no, I didn't vibrate my chest,
Speaker 1: and neither did the growl. But the growl did like
Speaker 1: scare me.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure it got your moodor running. I don't
Speaker 2: out that at all. Did anything you witnessed or experienced
Speaker 2: that night as your encounter was playing out to give
Speaker 2: you the impression that it might have been a spiritual creature.
Speaker 1: Nothing really made me think it was a spiritual creature.
Speaker 1: As far as I'm concerned, it was a flesh and
Speaker 1: blood creature. I can hear it moving through the woods,
Speaker 1: I could hear it stepping on leaves and sticks. I
Speaker 1: could hear it breathing, I could hear it howling, I
Speaker 1: could hear it barking. But I didn't do anything out
Speaker 1: of the norm that a normal flesh and blood creature
Speaker 1: would do. I do believe in spiritual entities, and I
Speaker 1: do believe that maybe some of these cryptids do have
Speaker 1: some kind of paranormal behavior, But in this circumstance, I
Speaker 1: didn't witness or experience anything out of the usual. Basically
Speaker 1: just the normal flesh and blood got type of behavior.
Speaker 1: So there was definitely a creature that was physical that
Speaker 1: was following me. And growling at me. So no, no paranormal,
Speaker 1: nothing paranormal.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a mixed bag. Some people see and experience
Speaker 2: things that convince them that the dog men they encounter,
Speaker 2: they're convinced that they must be spiritual beings from the ether.
Speaker 2: But then other people they're convinced that they have to
Speaker 2: be just flesh and blood creatures with no special abilities.
Speaker 2: So yeah, like I said, it's a mixed bag.
Speaker 1: With what you just said, I mean, if dog men,
Speaker 1: if you know, if they're seen around Native American cemeteries
Speaker 1: and they're protecting that, I feel like that would be
Speaker 1: more of a spiritual entity because you hear that off
Speaker 1: over and over and over and no, no normal wildlife,
Speaker 1: wild animal would do that. That's just that is paranormal behavior.
Speaker 1: And you know, there is there obviously was a large
Speaker 1: Native American presence here, so like you know, maybe there
Speaker 1: was some sort of spiritual connection, but from what I experienced,
Speaker 1: I didn't experience anything unusual. But who knows, who knows?
Speaker 2: Well, as you know, there are so many things about
Speaker 2: these guys that we just don't know. All we can
Speaker 2: do is guess at and we're never going to know
Speaker 2: more than likely. But that's just one of the many
Speaker 2: things that makes these guys so interesting. It really is. Now,
Speaker 2: let me qualify this by saying, I'm not being critical
Speaker 2: of you with this next question here. I'm just curious
Speaker 2: about this. Before you had that encounter, you said you
Speaker 2: already knew about dog men. With that in mind, why
Speaker 2: do you think it took you so long to connect
Speaker 2: the dots as that encounter was playing out and realize
Speaker 2: what it was right away the moment that you saw it.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I had briefly heard of dog man,
Speaker 1: Like I'm like one of those people that has to
Speaker 1: see it to believe it. I had heard well, living
Speaker 1: in Washington, I had heard many bigfoot encounters and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, and I really was skeptical, especially studying wildlife biology.
Speaker 1: So I have a I just have a scientific based mind,
Speaker 1: and I try to be skeptical until I can find
Speaker 1: some sort of proof that leads me to believe that
Speaker 1: maybe there is something out there. So I studied. Uh,
Speaker 1: I've I've had close encounters with the wolves. I know
Speaker 1: what they sound like, I know what their footprints look like.
Speaker 1: I can I can tell you the difference between a
Speaker 1: wolf scat and I'm fox scat, and I've also been
Speaker 1: around plenty of coyotes. I when I was in the
Speaker 1: Wilderness school, I did this little research thing where I
Speaker 1: camouflaged myself and I sat in the bushes along a
Speaker 1: coyote trail and I would just hide and I'd wait
Speaker 1: for the coyotes come by. And there were a few
Speaker 1: times where they literally and they knew I was there,
Speaker 1: and they came up right to me and sniffed me
Speaker 1: and found me. I've also fed a coyote out of
Speaker 1: my hand. I was doing park work in Washington State
Speaker 1: and there's this park and every once in a whiles
Speaker 1: while you'd see coyotes when you're shutting down the park.
Speaker 1: And I used to always have bags of beef jerky,
Speaker 1: so every once in a while there's some jerky towards
Speaker 1: the coyotes, and eventually they came really close. After a while,
Speaker 1: they got close enough that they'd eat out of my hands. So,
Speaker 1: to make a long story short, I've had a lot
Speaker 1: of experience with coyotes, foxes, and wolves, and this was
Speaker 1: a This wasn't a coyote or a wolf. There are
Speaker 1: no wolves in New Jersey. This wasn't a desiccated dog,
Speaker 1: it's just the animal behavior that it displayed was just
Speaker 1: totally out of the norm of any canine I've ever experienced.
Speaker 1: But my intuition told me right away it was a canine.
Speaker 1: I could tell by the gral, I could tell by
Speaker 1: the bark. And then when it when I it was
Speaker 1: walking past my door and I was trying to basically
Speaker 1: listen and hear and see everything that I could, Uh,
Speaker 1: I was trying to see what was stalking me. I
Speaker 1: was able to see the outline of it basically, and
Speaker 1: it was it looked like a canine. It was as
Speaker 1: big as a bear, looked like a canine. And my
Speaker 1: intuition when like, all right, if this isn't a wolf,
Speaker 1: this isn't coyote, this isn't a dog, this has got
Speaker 1: to be a dog man. Because you know, I am
Speaker 1: very open minded. I don't believe humans have discovered everything
Speaker 1: on this planet. I think there's a lot unknown. So
Speaker 1: with my open mindedness, I was I just did the
Speaker 1: process of elimination. What else could it be? A dog man?
Speaker 1: So also the dreams that I had, I didn't even
Speaker 1: really like I had the experience that like in the
Speaker 1: back of my I was thinking maybe it's a dog man.
Speaker 1: But the dreams I had every single night were so vivid,
Speaker 1: and basically I was seeing a wolf look through my window,
Speaker 1: standing up on two legs, which was really strange. It
Speaker 1: was only a dream, but that only made me feel
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. It made me feel
Speaker 1: like it had to have been a creature that no
Speaker 1: one really knows. So yeah, with my experience and my
Speaker 1: encryptid interests, I kind of alluded to the fact that
Speaker 1: it could possibly be a dog man. And my intuition,
Speaker 1: which is usually right, told me it was a dog man.
Speaker 1: So like, I think, without a doubt, that's what I saw.
Speaker 2: That makes two of us. And you're just being pragmatic
Speaker 2: by just not jumping to the conclusion that it was
Speaker 2: a dog man. They gave you every reason to jump
Speaker 2: to that conclusion. But yeah, you're just being practical by
Speaker 2: not doing that. And that's understandable. That's respectable. It really is.
Speaker 1: And that's when I started like looking into the subject.
Speaker 1: I was like, I, my intuition is saying that this
Speaker 1: is not a normal creature, and I started looking into
Speaker 1: the dog man subject, and that's where I found your podcast,
Speaker 1: and that's where I started hearing encounters, and to my surprise,
Speaker 1: there had been other encounters and sightings in the same county,
Speaker 1: let alone, like not even a few miles away. So like,
Speaker 1: after having that experience and hearing those encounters, are really
Speaker 1: kind of verified in my head that what I saw
Speaker 1: was definitely a dog man, especially after hearing my parents
Speaker 1: see these weird canines in the back of our yard
Speaker 1: and stuff. So if there is a dog man, I
Speaker 1: know there's more than one.
Speaker 2: And that gets me. The fact both of your parents
Speaker 2: have had dog me and encounters of their own, but
Speaker 2: they still don't want to cross that line and admit
Speaker 2: that they're out there unbelievable.
Speaker 1: I know, I know it's unfortunate, but you know, what
Speaker 1: are you going to do. You can't teach it old
Speaker 1: dog new tricks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. That's a good point. You said that
Speaker 2: you had those bad night tiers for two weeks after
Speaker 2: you had that encounter. Have you had any sense?
Speaker 1: Uh no, not. So Basically, after I had that encounter,
Speaker 1: I had night terrors all the way up until I
Speaker 1: moved out, and eventually I moved in with a new girl,
Speaker 1: which was great because I had just gotten out of
Speaker 1: this terrible relationship, and I was I'm an arborist, so
Speaker 1: I was the lead arborous and trainer for my company,
Speaker 1: and they were like, oh, there's this new girl that's
Speaker 1: gonna be working there, and I was training her and
Speaker 1: we hit it off and ended up dating for years
Speaker 1: after and she's still one of my best friends in
Speaker 1: the whole entire world. But yeah, no, I didn't think so, oh.
Speaker 2: Thank goodness for that. You heard the same call several
Speaker 2: times after the night when you had your encounter. But
Speaker 2: how close were those new calls to you when you
Speaker 2: heard them?
Speaker 1: All? Right, So these fields are probably like one acre each.
Speaker 1: Field that's by my house is probably about it an
Speaker 1: acre each. So when it crossed through my neighbor's yard
Speaker 1: into the green belt into my yard, it had it
Speaker 1: was probably forty feet away from me. So I'm looking
Speaker 1: at a shadow just across the grass of my yard.
Speaker 1: It like cross in front of this pinoak, and that
Speaker 1: had to be forty feet away, and it went another
Speaker 1: forty fifty feet into the field. So I had a
Speaker 1: good one hundred feet of it crossing into my property,
Speaker 1: passing the pin oak, and then another fifty feet into
Speaker 1: the field. So it was close it was close. I
Speaker 1: could hear its foot feet hitting the ground. I could
Speaker 1: hear it breathing. When it was in the field, it
Speaker 1: was probably seventy five feet away tops. I could see it, uh,
Speaker 1: sitting like a canine like you know how dogs sit
Speaker 1: and they're just like you're like, good boy, sit like
Speaker 1: it was sitting like that my mind's eye. It was
Speaker 1: sitting like that facing me. I couldn't really tell because
Speaker 1: it was just barely silhouetted, like you could see that
Speaker 1: there was like this dark canine. But when it was
Speaker 1: sitting up, it looked like it was about four five
Speaker 1: feet off the ground, but from seventy five feet away
Speaker 1: in the darkest hard to gauge, but that's how far
Speaker 1: it was. And that's where it started. That's when I
Speaker 1: whistled to it and it started growling, did a growl
Speaker 1: it it growled and the growl turned. The growl turned
Speaker 1: into a bark, which turned into a howl. It was very,
Speaker 1: very bizarre. I've never heard of canine do making noise
Speaker 1: like that, but it was really obviously it was a canine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was way too close for comfort that night,
Speaker 2: it sounds like, but I guess I didn't make myself
Speaker 2: so very clear, and I apologize for that. No, when
Speaker 2: I was asking how close those calls were Tea, I
Speaker 2: was talking about the new ones, the calls that you
Speaker 2: heard after the night that you had that first encounter.
Speaker 1: Uh, what do you mean by the calls I heard
Speaker 1: after I heard that encounter When.
Speaker 2: We spoke for the first time, I thought you said
Speaker 2: that you heard other calls maybe in the distance after
Speaker 2: that night when you had that first encounter, like maybe
Speaker 2: it was coming back around or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I heard it a couple more times, very very
Speaker 1: not often. I heard it maybe one or two times after,
Speaker 1: and then I never heard it again. I also heard
Speaker 1: it one or two times beforehand, but I didn't really
Speaker 1: know what to think beforehand, and I actually forgot about
Speaker 1: that until you asked me this question. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: heard it around literally like one or two nights after,
Speaker 1: and it was just basically the same growl bark that
Speaker 1: I heard. It was weird because, like I swear, I
Speaker 1: heard that on the same gral bark before or even
Speaker 1: had this encounter, and that kind of like set and
Speaker 1: alarm in my head. But yeah, afterwards, I heard it
Speaker 1: like literally once or twice. That's it. And then I
Speaker 1: never heard it again, but I did have those like
Speaker 1: every night afterwards. I would feel like it was looking
Speaker 1: through my window, which was weird, and I had no
Speaker 1: idea that that was like a common thing that dog
Speaker 1: men do until I started listening to your podcast. It
Speaker 1: was weird because, like you know, I had this experience
Speaker 1: and I didn't know anything about the dog man topic.
Speaker 1: I just heard about it, and I was very skeptical
Speaker 1: of the whole entire situation. So then I have this
Speaker 1: experience and I didn't really know what to think about it.
Speaker 1: I didn't know how to feel about the whole situation.
Speaker 1: But it gave me nightmares and I was terrified, and
Speaker 1: my nightmares were of this like crazy big ten foot
Speaker 1: canine looking ducking down standing on two legs, looking through
Speaker 1: my window, and like the picture of it basically, if
Speaker 1: you could, less cartoonish, but like it looked like a
Speaker 1: star Fox with a longer star Fox from the video game,
Speaker 1: with a longer snout and bigger ears, basically the typical werewolf.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I haven't heard the noise since, but I
Speaker 1: haven't been living here. I moved out shortly after, and
Speaker 1: i'd been living in New Jersey for a while, and
Speaker 1: then I moved back to Oregon. So this is my
Speaker 1: I've been back for about a week now and I'm
Speaker 1: in the same place, so I'm keeping my ears open.
Speaker 1: But I have not heard anything since. And I only
Speaker 1: heard it like briefly, like maybe one or two times
Speaker 1: after the fact. That was sort of while I was
Speaker 1: just beginning to like come to the grips that maybe
Speaker 1: I'd seen a dog man. It took me a little
Speaker 1: while to like really accept that fact until I started
Speaker 1: listening to your show and Encounters. Like I was trying
Speaker 1: to say, I didn't realize that that was a frequent
Speaker 1: thing that dogmen did, was look through windows at people,
Speaker 1: until I started listening to your podcasts. But before I
Speaker 1: ever even had that realization, I was having bad dreams
Speaker 1: of this canine looking at me through the windows and
Speaker 1: it was really unsettling. And I'm I'm very comfortable in
Speaker 1: the outdoors. Like I said, I've been on I've been
Speaker 1: a Prince survival instructor for fifteen years. I've been on
Speaker 1: survival trips out in the bush in Washington State with
Speaker 1: nothing but my hands. The longest survival trip I did
Speaker 1: was eight weeks with nothing but my hands, and you know,
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time in the forest and
Speaker 1: I went a sleeping bag just on the ground. So yeah,
Speaker 1: this was a new subject and a new fear that
Speaker 1: I had an experience, and so usually I'm comfortable with
Speaker 1: the outdoors, but after having that experience, I was really
Speaker 1: shooking and I would lock the door. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: out in the middle of nowhere, so there's really no
Speaker 1: reason to lock the door, but I just had a
Speaker 1: feeling that something could open it and come in and
Speaker 1: eat me. It was really unsettling. I don't know if
Speaker 1: anyone's had a feeling like that before, but if they have,
Speaker 1: they might understand the idea of something with claws opening
Speaker 1: up the door and coming in. But yeah, I was
Speaker 1: worried that there's a dog man that would eat me,
Speaker 1: and I just would have these vivid dreams of it
Speaker 1: opening up my door with its raccoon like hands and
Speaker 1: coming in. And ever since I moved out, I never
Speaker 1: had that fear again, and since I've been back, I
Speaker 1: haven't had any fear since, so it's kind of strange.
Speaker 1: But now that there's a bunch of fresh snow on
Speaker 1: the ground, I'm definitely trying to go tracking.
Speaker 2: Well, it goes without saying, I'm so glad you're able
Speaker 2: to enjoy the woods again, Thank goodness for that. That
Speaker 2: does make me wonder, though, almost all the things that
Speaker 2: you've done in the woods you did before you had
Speaker 2: that dog man encounter, talking about being an arborist and
Speaker 2: going to the survival school and everything else like that,
Speaker 2: if you would have had that dogged me an encounter
Speaker 2: before you did any of those many things that you've
Speaker 2: done in the woods, you think there's a possibility that
Speaker 2: encounter would have derailed your interest in going out and
Speaker 2: doing those things.
Speaker 1: Oh man, that's a great question. I don't know because
Speaker 1: I was so young when I started that. I was eighteen,
Speaker 1: and one of my first experiences in the Pacific Northwest
Speaker 1: at such a young age involved the cryptid experience. It
Speaker 1: didn't happen to me, but someone in the wilderness school
Speaker 1: that I went to had a a run in with
Speaker 1: a bigfoot the first night that we were camping on
Speaker 1: the property at the wilderness school that I went to,
Speaker 1: and they left the program the next day. So that
Speaker 1: didn't determine from continuing the wilderness School. In fact, I
Speaker 1: kind of thought the person was lying I didn't really
Speaker 1: know what to think at the time. I'd never really
Speaker 1: even heard of bigfoot. But I don't think so. I think.
Speaker 1: I think I believe we are all part of nature,
Speaker 1: and nature it's so therapeutic, important and important for us
Speaker 1: to have a connection to nature. I don't think anything
Speaker 1: could or would deter me from that. You know, if
Speaker 1: it's our time to go, it's our time to go.
Speaker 1: And I'm trying to accept that right now to help
Speaker 1: with the fear when I'm out at night or when
Speaker 1: I'm out in the forest alone, because like anytime i'm
Speaker 1: out in the forest one, I do have my guard up,
Speaker 1: you know, after these experiences, Like it's not like I'm
Speaker 1: roaming through the forest like lollygagger around joyful, not just
Speaker 1: with no wit, just I keep my wits to me
Speaker 1: and I'm always paying attention, you know. I you never
Speaker 1: know what can ever happen. Anything can happen when you're
Speaker 1: out in the forest, so it's always good to have
Speaker 1: your guard up to some extent. But I feel like
Speaker 1: I would have still done the wilderness school, but it's
Speaker 1: really hard to say. I don't know. If I was
Speaker 1: younger and I had that experience, who knows how I
Speaker 1: would have reacted. But right now, at this age, I'm
Speaker 1: thirty six, I'm not going to let anything keep me
Speaker 1: out at the forest.
Speaker 2: Good Man, And I'm so glad it didn't happen before
Speaker 2: you did all those things, because, yeah, and by the
Speaker 2: odd chance it would have frightened you out of the
Speaker 2: woods for good. That would have been a really big shame.
Speaker 2: It really would have been. You've had more than one
Speaker 2: sasquatch encounter, Wiley, in addition to your dog me an encounter.
Speaker 2: Please tell us about the sasquatch encounter that shook you
Speaker 2: at most.
Speaker 1: Okay, so I've I've had a few sasquatch encounters. And
Speaker 1: it's funny because when I told you about them, you
Speaker 1: said that you think that I'm on their radar, which
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm on the radar. I think I've
Speaker 1: just spent a significant amount of time in the outdoors
Speaker 1: because for the amount of time that I've spent the outdoors,
Speaker 1: I've had very few encounters and like they're pretty minimal.
Speaker 1: They weren't anything crazy. But like, the scariest encounter I
Speaker 1: had with the bigfoot was when I was living in
Speaker 1: Washington State, basically in Capital Forest. Capital Forest is a
Speaker 1: it's a forest near Olympia, Washington that's like basically on
Speaker 1: outskirts of the Olympic Peninsula. So it's a it's a
Speaker 1: big forest. There's elk, the salmon run goes through the
Speaker 1: creeks all throughout the forest. There's mountain lions, black bear,
Speaker 1: and you know the occasional bigfoot siding. So I was
Speaker 1: my landlord was the grandson of Charles Limberg, which is
Speaker 1: kind of cool. I don't know if anyone's heard of
Speaker 1: Charles Limberg, but I know the whole Limberg family. Due
Speaker 1: to living on this guy's property, he ended up being
Speaker 1: a really close friend. We still talk to this day.
Speaker 1: In fact, I just moved back to New Jersey and
Speaker 1: right before I moved back, I was staying on his
Speaker 1: property again for a few weeks just before I left.
Speaker 1: But anyway, the Lindberg son, I'm on his property or
Speaker 1: Limberg grandson, I'm on his property, and he's got eleven
Speaker 1: acres in Washington State. It's really uh rural. It's a
Speaker 1: pretty bumble out there. There's a lot of animals, and
Speaker 1: his property's kind of open, like there's a there's a
Speaker 1: you know, he's got a grassy meadow with a garden,
Speaker 1: and like, at the end of the grassy meadow is
Speaker 1: the tree line, and I found a game trail that
Speaker 1: led into the tree line, and I had a hammock.
Speaker 1: So I set up the hammock. And because I would
Speaker 1: see Elk every week driving back from the property going
Speaker 1: into Olympia, and so I thought, maybe this could be
Speaker 1: an Elk game trail. I dodn't really know, but it
Speaker 1: was a game trail for sure. So I got this
Speaker 1: little four foot step ladder and I hung my aut
Speaker 1: hammock tent that I just got. I got this cool
Speaker 1: hammock that had like a mosquito net and a rain fly,
Speaker 1: and I hung it up seven feet above this game trail.
Speaker 1: So I ended up falling asleep, and at some point
Speaker 1: throughout the night, I was woken up by something like
Speaker 1: poking me, and I clearly woke up. It was as
Speaker 1: if something like your friend was poking you, and it
Speaker 1: was like wake up, wake up. And I woke up,
Speaker 1: and I kind of like was in a daze. I
Speaker 1: was in a deep sleep, and I woke up to
Speaker 1: my hammock swaying back and forth, and I could hear
Speaker 1: something like close by, basically probably the thing that was
Speaker 1: poking me. But I made sure to hang my hammock
Speaker 1: like high enough above the ground that if at elk
Speaker 1: with antlers walked on this game trail, its antlers wouldn't
Speaker 1: hit me. It was a good steven feet above the ground.
Speaker 1: So anyway, I was woken up to something poking me,
Speaker 1: and I'm swaying back and forth, and at that moment,
Speaker 1: my heart sunk. I was like freaked out, like what
Speaker 1: the heck was that? And I could hear something breathing,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, I tried to unzip my hammock,
Speaker 1: and when I'm unzipping it, it was really loud. I
Speaker 1: tried to do as quiet as possible, and it was
Speaker 1: just like I was like no, And as soon as
Speaker 1: I unzipped it, whatever poked me stamped his ground, stamped
Speaker 1: his foot on the ground and went wow, like just
Speaker 1: yelled at me. And I at that moment, I had
Speaker 1: a fight or flight feeling, and I knew I had
Speaker 1: to get out of there, so I I tried to
Speaker 1: make my way out of the hammock, and I remember
Speaker 1: getting out of it and grabbing it like monkey bars
Speaker 1: and swinging and then trying to let go and I
Speaker 1: put my feet couldn't touch the ground, and I end
Speaker 1: up landing on my behind. And as I was walking
Speaker 1: like out of the forest, really really scared, knowing that
Speaker 1: there's something behind me. I was close enough to the
Speaker 1: house that I lived on and I had seven roommates
Speaker 1: at the time, and one of my roommates that lived
Speaker 1: in the basement was a gamer, and he would say
Speaker 1: up really late playing video games, and he had a
Speaker 1: pitple and he let his pipple out as I was
Speaker 1: coming out of the forest, and the piple was like
Speaker 1: it was a fearless dog. It would chase mountain lion,
Speaker 1: it would chase barry. This guy would let the door
Speaker 1: open at two in the morning and the dog would
Speaker 1: just chase animals into the forest and then come back
Speaker 1: when it was ready. So like I'm coming out of
Speaker 1: the forest and he opens the door and I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh no the dog, and the dog immediately noticed the
Speaker 1: commotion started like kind of grunting and walking towards me
Speaker 1: in like an aggressive sort of way. And I'm like
Speaker 1: talking to the dog like easy boy, easy, it's me.
Speaker 1: It's me Wiley, Like I'm saying that, and the dog
Speaker 1: tucked its tail its legs and started whimpering and decided
Speaker 1: to come up to me, and it put its head
Speaker 1: in between my legs and escorted me to the front door,
Speaker 1: which was just amazing, honestly, Like I was terrified and
Speaker 1: knew there's something in the forest, and the dog reacted
Speaker 1: instantly to what was back there. I've never seen this
Speaker 1: dog cower and fear like this. It was a pit
Speaker 1: bull that was fearless, but yeah, escorted me back to
Speaker 1: the house and I went inside and I left the
Speaker 1: dog outside, and that was probably the scariest asquatch experience
Speaker 1: I had. I don't know what that was. I kind
Speaker 1: of thought about it many many times after the fact,
Speaker 1: and I came to the conclusion that there is nothing
Speaker 1: it could have been other than a bigfoot due to
Speaker 1: the fact there are tons and tons of bigfoot sightings
Speaker 1: that come out of the Capitol Forest, and I don't
Speaker 1: think I think I would have known it if it
Speaker 1: was an elk If it was elk Antler's kind of
Speaker 1: brushing against me, like what I felt were fingers poking
Speaker 1: me and what I heard was a yell on its stomp,
Speaker 1: and just the fact I don't think a dog would
Speaker 1: cower like it did if there was an elk or something.
Speaker 1: An elk usually traveling packs, They're not usually walking around
Speaker 1: the forest alone. But that was the scariest bigfoot encounter.
Speaker 1: It wasn't the most vivid bigfoot encounter I had. I've
Speaker 1: I've actually seen one face to face in Florida, and
Speaker 1: I saw I heard one doing vocalizations in Olympic Peninsula
Speaker 1: and then I got I saw it at the very
Speaker 1: top of the ridge, silhouetted, and it ducked down when
Speaker 1: I saw it. But so I've had multiple big foot encounters,
Speaker 1: but for the amount of time I spend in the forest,
Speaker 1: those encounters are far and few between. But I think
Speaker 1: they're out there, and I've seen footprints, and I've seen
Speaker 1: plenty of sign For example, I seeing trees that are
Speaker 1: flipped upside down with their roots exposed. I've seen that
Speaker 1: probably ten different times hiking throughout the forest in Washington State.
Speaker 2: Yeah, after having all those experiences with sasquatch, you're definitely
Speaker 2: on the radar in my opinion.
Speaker 1: What do you mean by that? Pick? What do you
Speaker 1: mean I'm on the radar? I don't think so. Well.
Speaker 2: It seems like when someone keeps on having encounters with Sasquatch,
Speaker 2: it's almost like they tend to just know when you're
Speaker 2: in their area, and it seems like for certain people
Speaker 2: they just try to seek you out. Not all the time,
Speaker 2: but when you have that many encounters, it sure does
Speaker 2: seem like they're trying to, at least to some capacity,
Speaker 2: seek you out, and that's why you keep on having experiences.
Speaker 1: Well, I think like for the amount of time that
Speaker 1: I've spent in the forest, the three encounters that I've had,
Speaker 1: they were all in different places. One was in the
Speaker 1: Olympic Peninsula, one was in Capitol Forest, and then one
Speaker 1: was in Florida. So like, I really I do believe
Speaker 1: that these were all different individuals and I don't think
Speaker 1: they were seeking me out. But I did have the encounters,
Speaker 1: and I do feel like they were able to sense
Speaker 1: my energy. I don't know if like there's something about
Speaker 1: the energy frequencies that they pick up on and they'll
Speaker 1: let themselves be seen by certain individuals. I think that's
Speaker 1: the best case scenario home with me, but don't I
Speaker 1: don't think I'm on their radar, and if I am,
Speaker 1: maybe there's some sort of paranormal aspects of these creatures.
Speaker 1: But who knows, right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, who knows, that's right? Which encounter do you think
Speaker 2: about more often? Your dog me an encounter or that
Speaker 2: sasquatch encounter you just told us about where you're in
Speaker 2: the Hammock.
Speaker 1: Well, I uh, I would say the Hammock one I
Speaker 1: think about the least because I didn't really see anything.
Speaker 1: I was only able to feel something, which was kind
Speaker 1: of crazy because like if it was a bigfoot, that
Speaker 1: means I was touched by a bigfoot. But I don't
Speaker 1: think of that one as much as the encounter I
Speaker 1: had in Florida with a big foot. The encounter I
Speaker 1: had in Florida, I got to stand Basically, we had
Speaker 1: a moment I was standing in front of one, face
Speaker 1: to face with a thousand women flashlights shining at it,
Speaker 1: and we were able to look at each other and
Speaker 1: kind of just like I zoned out, like trying to
Speaker 1: figure out what this creature's intentions were as it was
Speaker 1: swaying back and forth looking at me. And that's the
Speaker 1: one I really think about the most because just this
Speaker 1: behavior I when I was standing in front of it
Speaker 1: with a thousand women flashlight, I just couldn't tell what
Speaker 1: its intentions were. I couldn't tell if they're positive, if
Speaker 1: I was in danger, or like what it was thinking.
Speaker 1: But it was clearly checking me out and swaying back
Speaker 1: and forth and really vigorously looking at me, And I
Speaker 1: just have no idea what that means. Typically when I
Speaker 1: see an animal or human, I could read their body language,
Speaker 1: but this animal's body language was something that I wasn't
Speaker 1: able to read. It was definitely fascinated with me, and
Speaker 1: I kind of I don't know. I wasn't by myself.
Speaker 1: I had a friend with me. He wasn't able to
Speaker 1: see it. But yeah, if I was by myself during
Speaker 1: that situation, who knows what would have happened. Like it's
Speaker 1: interesting because like it looked like as if it was
Speaker 1: sizing me up. It was like swaying back and forth,
Speaker 1: like looking at me very intently, and as soon as
Speaker 1: I had a friend kind of walk up to me,
Speaker 1: it balanced so like I don't know if it was
Speaker 1: like I'm not going to take on to people, or
Speaker 1: this is too risky for me or what. I have
Speaker 1: no idea. I don't know if it didn't want my
Speaker 1: friend to see it, because my friend didn't see it,
Speaker 1: so me and whatever it was had this experience face
Speaker 1: to face, just me and it. But if I was alone,
Speaker 1: who knows how that would have played out. It's really
Speaker 1: interesting to think about. But you know, I know there
Speaker 1: are a lot of people that are alone and have
Speaker 1: experiences with the bigfoot and get out of that situation
Speaker 1: and scaped. So who knows, But that the experience in
Speaker 1: the hammock isn't like what I think about most, and
Speaker 1: the dog encounter to the dog man encounter isn't like
Speaker 1: something that I think about often, especially when I was
Speaker 1: living in Organ. When I was in Organ, I was
Speaker 1: mostly like focused on bigfoot. I know there are dog
Speaker 1: man encounters out in the Olympic Peninsula. I heard when
Speaker 1: recently on your show, But uh yeah, I just wasn't
Speaker 1: thinking about dog man as much. Now that I'm back
Speaker 1: in New Jersey, back in living in the same space
Speaker 1: that I was where I had the encounter, It's definitely
Speaker 1: on my mind more. But I just haven't had that
Speaker 1: intuition that there's anything out there right now. So I
Speaker 1: hope that answers your question.
Speaker 2: That does and you being back there that would tend
Speaker 2: to make you think about it a lot more. I
Speaker 2: get it. Well, it's about time for us to get
Speaker 2: out of here wildly. But before we do, do you
Speaker 2: have any clothes and comments you want to put out
Speaker 2: their forests?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely. I just want people to think about the
Speaker 1: energy that they have before they go into the wild spaces.
Speaker 1: You know, before I go into the wilderness, I try
Speaker 1: to set my intentions and I try to put positive
Speaker 1: energy out there. And if I, if I had, if
Speaker 1: I've learned anything from these experiences, going out into the
Speaker 1: wilderness without a flashlight and being super emotional isn't the
Speaker 1: safest thing that you could do. So if anyone is
Speaker 1: ever going out into the deep forest, just try to
Speaker 1: set your intentions and put positive vibes out there, and
Speaker 1: I think that can go a long way. That's about
Speaker 1: it for me, Dick. Thank you.
Speaker 2: Oh you're welcome, And like I told you before, I
Speaker 2: really do like the way you think. You're a good man. Well,
Speaker 2: having said that, thanks again so much for coming back
Speaker 2: on to do this Q and A. Thanks again so
Speaker 2: much for just coming on in the first place to
Speaker 2: tell us about your encounter. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: I thank you so much. Vic, It's been my pleasure.
Speaker 2: Oh you know, you're welcome. It's been a good time.
Speaker 2: Thanks again so much, and have a great night.