Speaker 1: Welcome to Stories of Special Forces Operators Podcast. Listen to
Speaker 1: some of the bravest and toughest people on the planet
Speaker 1: share their stories, Sit back and enjoy.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to everybody. Well, we have another great returning guest,
Speaker 2: Bob Keller. He was in the units by the way, folks,
Speaker 2: you can find more about him at Keller k E
Speaker 2: W L E R gammeut GA, m Ut Resolutions, Keller,
Speaker 2: Gammut Resolutions. You can also go to his website gammut
Speaker 2: resolutions dot com. And you can also if you're down
Speaker 2: in Tampa, Florida, check out Range works now works.
Speaker 3: As we r X.
Speaker 2: So if you're visiting Tampa thinking about visiting Tampa, I
Speaker 2: would stop by if I was you so, because today
Speaker 2: we're going to be learning how to shoot the right
Speaker 2: way with proven combat shooting technique. Training with Bob Today,
Speaker 2: we're gonna learn a little bit about that, a little
Speaker 2: bit about psychology. Hey, do you ever wonder what it
Speaker 2: takes to get into the unit. We'll find out more
Speaker 2: about that as well. Before we get started. To make
Speaker 2: sure to share subscribe it they like, but you know,
Speaker 2: we like it and that's not wasting one time. Welcome
Speaker 2: to the show, Bob, Welcome back, Bob, what's going on?
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me back, and I field I feel
Speaker 3: like I was back ten minutes ago. That's that's right.
Speaker 3: Come put on another podcast with you.
Speaker 2: You know, we just did a podcast folks with John
Speaker 2: Stryker Meyer the macv SAG probably see him on. Jock
Speaker 2: o' willick and Bob did a great, great thing and
Speaker 2: came in to surprise us and visit us. They were
Speaker 2: just talking highly about the unit. Bob, that's a funny thing.
Speaker 2: They were just saying, how amazing these guys worrying and said,
Speaker 2: I'll be damned, I got the guys coming on and
Speaker 2: then boom there were Yeah, you lit their faces up,
Speaker 2: that's for sure. There was like it's like a parties
Speaker 2: like that time when you had that. Your buddies came
Speaker 2: on too. That was like a wild one. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Those those usually do really well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the top ten podcasts we've ever had. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you guys, that was a crazy one.
Speaker 3: And it really is the way to do it because
Speaker 3: when it comes to stories like I'm horrible like remembering things.
Speaker 3: I mean, so every year it gets worse.
Speaker 2: But when you get you had the one guy that
Speaker 2: you guys were all crutching on the one guy who
Speaker 2: remembers everything.
Speaker 3: I forgot his name. Yeah, that's Nate. So it's awesome
Speaker 3: to get, you know, everything, like once a year, twice
Speaker 3: a year to do stuff like this because he'll remember
Speaker 3: the missions and like like, once I hear it, I'll
Speaker 3: remember it. But I wouldn't be able Like if you
Speaker 3: just said, you know, talk about six missions drafted bat,
Speaker 3: I mean, it'll probably take me a week to remember
Speaker 3: six missions like all the way through, you know, but
Speaker 3: you know, Nate, he was one of He's one of
Speaker 3: those guys that has a good memory. So it is
Speaker 3: fun to do, uh, to do these podcasts with multiple
Speaker 3: guys because that one or two missions you remember, they
Speaker 3: might not remember, and then once you start talking about it,
Speaker 3: then everyone remembers it, and you know it's I was.
Speaker 2: Like, who was the other gentleman? I forgot his name?
Speaker 3: Sure, Gilly.
Speaker 2: That was cracking me up on that one because remember
Speaker 2: Nate was late about twenty minutes and you guys were
Speaker 2: freaking You're like, oh, the one has.
Speaker 3: Got the stories and where was Nate exactly? I was like,
Speaker 3: where the hell is Nate? Yeah, because because Brian he
Speaker 3: doesn't have a good memory either, so it's like you
Speaker 3: gotta have that third or four of the guy that
Speaker 3: remembers everything.
Speaker 2: For the fifteen minutes, it was like, yeah, I remember
Speaker 2: what was that? Oh yeah, well who was that? It's like, oh,
Speaker 2: I was gonna be frustrating.
Speaker 3: It was funny, I was. We we did another one
Speaker 3: a couple months ago, and he brought up a story
Speaker 3: that I had totally forgot about, and so it was
Speaker 3: cool for me, Like, as he's talking about I'm like,
Speaker 3: holy crap. I was like, I do remember that, but
Speaker 3: I hadn't. I hadn't talked about that one like that
Speaker 3: one would have been often books forever, you know, I
Speaker 3: would have never never remembered it. So it was really cool,
Speaker 3: you know, to do it again and to hear here
Speaker 3: new stuff that.
Speaker 4: I just totally forgot. How long were you with THEE together, uh,
Speaker 4: ten years? That's why you probably wait went fifty missions?
Speaker 4: Forty missions.
Speaker 3: It was over eight hundred with with eight. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh so you're kind of okay, I'm thinking of deployments mostly. Okay,
Speaker 2: so you're kind of like you're going on missions like
Speaker 2: every other week. We'll probably have two a week or
Speaker 2: three a week or something like that.
Speaker 3: We'd do to a day to a day. Oh it was,
Speaker 3: it was crazy. And then that's why I went there.
Speaker 3: It's like, that's right. Like my SF deployment was my
Speaker 3: which was my first deployment, was a great, great deployment,
Speaker 3: great experience. I wouldn't take like if I if I
Speaker 3: had to do again, I'd go back the same thing,
Speaker 3: just different, totally different mission set. So to be able
Speaker 3: to say that I was that I actually did the
Speaker 3: true SF mission overseas, you know, in a combat zone.
Speaker 3: But you can't. That's awesome. I wouldn't. I would never
Speaker 3: go back and change that. But it wasn't that you
Speaker 3: weren't doing missions every night, and that would have been
Speaker 3: one of those one of those things where it was
Speaker 3: maybe once once or twice a week, you know, if
Speaker 3: you were lucky. So like that that first time that
Speaker 3: I actually got in a gun fight or you know,
Speaker 3: I actually got shot at and realized that I liked
Speaker 3: it and this is for me, this is my life.
Speaker 3: After that deployment or during that deployment, I was like
Speaker 3: I wanted more. So that was the one the reason
Speaker 3: why I went to the unit. Some people I've heard
Speaker 3: which I think that was on that last one we
Speaker 3: talked about or this this not with you, but this
Speaker 3: last one, I was a Gilly and Natos and this
Speaker 3: is the first time I'd have heard this. Some guys
Speaker 3: at the unit like went to the unit because they
Speaker 3: knew everyone there was the best and it like so
Speaker 3: if they're going to be in the military and overseas
Speaker 3: and they have to fight, they want to fight with
Speaker 3: the best people, right, Like it almost made them more comfortable.
Speaker 3: So when I heard that, I was like, that's crazy,
Speaker 3: Like I had never thought of that. My whole reason
Speaker 3: for going to the unit was to get more gunfights.
Speaker 3: Like that was the only reason I could have cared
Speaker 3: less if guys were switched on or if guys were
Speaker 3: you know, like safer and safer to be around. Like
Speaker 3: I knew that they were getting on, So that's where
Speaker 3: I wanted to go.
Speaker 2: So that's an interesting Yeah.
Speaker 3: So like going back to like the mission wise, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean there was some nights or some days, like weeks,
Speaker 3: weeks in a row. We're going on two missions a day, so.
Speaker 2: We literally we literally touched the tip of the iceberg
Speaker 2: of your missions. Yeah, we're not even.
Speaker 3: Close to And that's and That's what's crazy, Like all
Speaker 3: the times you go out there, like there's no way
Speaker 3: and maybe if it was like a traumatic experience for people,
Speaker 3: they're going to remember it more, but like for me,
Speaker 3: it was just a normal job, you know, like if
Speaker 3: you went out on a mission and nothing happened, well
Speaker 3: that just flushed from my brain, Like I wouldn't even
Speaker 3: wouldn't even think twice about them, right, I'm not going
Speaker 3: to remember all of them. But yeah, it's crazy how
Speaker 3: like people always like I think, I think people that
Speaker 3: are that got there after me, or guys that weren't
Speaker 3: there during the heat of it, you know, when they
Speaker 3: hear like eight hundred missions or a thousand missions, like
Speaker 3: there's no way, there's no way that you were on
Speaker 3: eight hundred missions or what we call them hits, And
Speaker 3: you think about it if you're going out, so you're
Speaker 3: over there for four months at a time, and you
Speaker 3: like I have with with the unit twelve I think
Speaker 3: twelve deployments with them, so you got to think four
Speaker 3: months however many days that is, and then you take
Speaker 3: that over fourteen fourteen deployments if you add up if
Speaker 3: you're going on even if you were just going out
Speaker 3: once a day that quick, and it really and it
Speaker 3: comes down to like what troop you're in, what squadron
Speaker 3: you're in, do like it's it's eluck thing. It's kind
Speaker 3: of like win the lottery, like if you get over
Speaker 3: and you happen to be at that perfect spot you
Speaker 3: know for that trip and there's stuff going on, like
Speaker 3: it's it's just blowing up, like there's stuff every night
Speaker 3: to hit. Well, that's the missions start adding up real quick.
Speaker 3: So I got, I got. I was very fortunate to
Speaker 3: be the way that I am and wanting those missions,
Speaker 3: like to be in the troops and the squadron that
Speaker 3: I was that I was in for my whole career.
Speaker 3: Or some people, I'm sure we're getting burnt out, you know,
Speaker 3: like if they're getting over there and then then you're
Speaker 3: going out twice twice a night or every every day
Speaker 3: that I'm sure some people were like this is stupid.
Speaker 3: But to me, I liked it and everyone that I
Speaker 3: worked with that I knew it was the same thing.
Speaker 5: Like it it was never like we have another one,
Speaker 5: like right, uh yeah, if you're lucky.
Speaker 3: I'd say five, five or six if you're lucky, and
Speaker 3: then it usually was like.
Speaker 2: Four or five, and Nate and Gilly were with you
Speaker 2: most of the time. Yeah, yep, okay, you had one
Speaker 2: other guy I think or something you mentioned before.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I probably was probably was Bron.
Speaker 3: I don't think I've ever done any podcasts with him.
Speaker 2: Now you mentioned some other guy. I know there was.
Speaker 2: There was I don't know if it was him or not.
Speaker 2: There was one guy you guys laughed a little bit
Speaker 2: about because he was kind of I think he came
Speaker 2: in at the end or something like that. I can't
Speaker 2: remember now. Yeah. See, that's why that's why I need
Speaker 2: two other guys. Well, you know what I'll do. I'll
Speaker 2: talk to Sean if you're up for will you do
Speaker 2: another one with Sean? That Tier one? He he really
Speaker 2: admires you guys too. When he was working in Canada,
Speaker 2: he was the guy who met on the John Striker Show.
Speaker 2: So we're doing a lot. We're kind of revisiting a
Speaker 2: lot of the guys I mentioned before because I used
Speaker 2: to get a lot of flack. Why are you doing
Speaker 2: these podcasts? You're not military? And I do it because
Speaker 2: I wanted to learn myself, and I look at it psychologically,
Speaker 2: it's different. You guys are different. There was no doubt
Speaker 2: about it. Yeah, And I even show my classes some
Speaker 2: of you guys, and I was like, show them, look,
Speaker 2: look at this guy. But I show him and say,
Speaker 2: listen to their stories and how resilient people can be. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because it blows their mind every time they hear. You know,
Speaker 2: Ryan Hendrickson, he's the Green Beret that stepped in the
Speaker 2: I ED and lost his leg.
Speaker 3: No, I mean it sounds familiar, but that's that's kind
Speaker 3: of a normal last name, so maybe I've heard it before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he stepped in I D lost his leg and
Speaker 2: they told him you're done, and he got He got
Speaker 2: deployed again two years later. Yea, which is amazing. It's like, whoa,
Speaker 2: you actually went back they said, Yeah, they told me
Speaker 2: forget it, just hang it up and h.
Speaker 3: Whoa.
Speaker 2: That's intense stuff there.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's kind of revisiting some of these stories.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it'd be great we can try to get
Speaker 2: you guys back on again and and have it because
Speaker 2: he provides a little bit of a different angle than
Speaker 2: I do. I looked at the psychology of it, but
Speaker 2: he'll provide more of the operator stuff and he'll say, well,
Speaker 2: what did you guys do here whatever it is, you
Speaker 2: know how it goes. Yeah, that'll be fascinating.
Speaker 3: But I think the psychology part does come and to
Speaker 3: play a bit, you know, big, big time.
Speaker 6: Being to being at or to being at that level,
Speaker 6: not only operationally, but I mean just just staying there
Speaker 6: that long, you know, I mean, you got to you
Speaker 6: have the right mindset.
Speaker 3: You truly have to love what you're doing, because I
Speaker 3: mean that the burnout rate would be just would be huge.
Speaker 2: You're you almost sound like when I when I've been
Speaker 2: a new cops and I have a lot of cop friends,
Speaker 2: and I asked them. I used to ask night. I'm
Speaker 2: not stupid, so I used to ask the questions like
Speaker 2: anything stand out in your career? And then it becomes
Speaker 2: the exact same situation as you and they're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: about two thousand things stand out and my career because
Speaker 2: every night is about five things. You're like, what the
Speaker 2: hell happened here?
Speaker 3: Yep? Exactly that That is kind of how it would
Speaker 3: be it. Man, if you're talking about they're on Yeah,
Speaker 3: the stuff that they get to see every single day,
Speaker 3: there's no way you can remember everything, right, So yeah,
Speaker 3: but when it comes to missions, it's it's it was
Speaker 3: the it was like the Big Ones or you know,
Speaker 3: where something really bad happened that sticks out. But even
Speaker 3: to me, like I just never I never thought of
Speaker 3: it as a big deal, you know, Like I mean
Speaker 3: there was it would be funny to have my wife here,
Speaker 3: Like there was one where where two guys got shot
Speaker 3: on target. One of them was my really good buddy
Speaker 3: and are my wife and his wife were good friends.
Speaker 3: Well he gets shot, you know, we we send him on,
Speaker 3: send them on the bird. They ship off to Germany.
Speaker 7: You know, to surgery and everything, and like to us,
Speaker 7: even though he's my really good buddy, I didn't think
Speaker 7: anything of it.
Speaker 3: I'm just not like that's that's the game that we
Speaker 3: played every single time that we go on target. We
Speaker 3: can get shot and you accept it, and you accept
Speaker 3: that anyone else can get a shot. So when someone
Speaker 3: gets shot and you've already accepted it, it's not a
Speaker 3: big deal. It's like we finished the mission, you know what.
Speaker 3: I went back that night, didn't even think about like
Speaker 3: calling my wife and saying, you know this, you know,
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna say his name, but you know he'd
Speaker 3: been shot. Because I didn't think it was a big deal. Well,
Speaker 3: it just happened to be, like, my wife called his
Speaker 3: wife just just out of the blue, and she was like,
Speaker 3: I just got a you know, a phone call from
Speaker 3: you know, the army, and this is what happened. So
Speaker 3: now my wife knows that I'm on target with him, right,
Speaker 3: So she's wondering what the heck happened, you know, she's
Speaker 3: freaking out, and you know, I'm back there, probably watching
Speaker 3: a movie, not even thinking twice about it. Well, I
Speaker 3: happened to call her like that either that night or
Speaker 3: the next night or a couple of nights later, you know,
Speaker 3: and she's like, so, did anything, you know, did anything
Speaker 3: happen last night? And I was like, I don't know why,
Speaker 3: you know, like she was acting weird, and then she
Speaker 3: was like, I know what happened. She was like, oh,
Speaker 3: she was mad that I didn't let her know. And
Speaker 3: it wasn't that I was trying to hide it. I
Speaker 3: just didn't think it was a big deal. It was
Speaker 3: just another mission. Did you think people people get hurt,
Speaker 3: people die, people get shot, And that's that might sound
Speaker 3: kind of harsh or like, you know, cold hearted, but
Speaker 3: that's just how we are, you know. I mean we're not.
Speaker 3: We're not gonna dwell on Like if someone dies in
Speaker 3: front of us, We're not gonna dwell on that, you know,
Speaker 3: the next day or or ten years later. I mean,
Speaker 3: that's that's the game that we play, that's the game
Speaker 3: that we wanted to be in.
Speaker 2: We use that. It's kind of interesting when you use
Speaker 2: that analogy, because that's exactly what you sounded like to me.
Speaker 2: You sound are you a baseball fan, no basketball fan,
Speaker 2: no football?
Speaker 8: That's not it to me?
Speaker 2: Like a bay I'm gonna go back to baseball, then
Speaker 2: forget it, but it's not up to me. Like you're
Speaker 2: a baseball player and one of your teammates, Polls is
Speaker 2: Pools is Hammy, all right, next you know who's taking
Speaker 2: over him? That's about it, Because it sounds like you
Speaker 2: just kind of not worry about it. Maybe you fall,
Speaker 2: maybe you don't, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean I'm not totally coldhearted. I mean, yeah, I
Speaker 3: don't want people to die, but I'm not that's not
Speaker 3: gonna affect me. I'm not gonna go back and you know,
Speaker 3: cry on my pillow because someone someone got killed or
Speaker 3: someone got shot. I mean I would think we almost
Speaker 3: look at it like, hey, now we're down a guy.
Speaker 3: You know, now we're down a good guy, and you know,
Speaker 3: how do we how do we make up for that now?
Speaker 3: But you almost truly was all about the next mission.
Speaker 2: And you almost have to when you can't go on
Speaker 2: with your mindset wondering about you getting killed next because
Speaker 2: that's not going to make you very effective, is it. Nope? Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I think that that is the difference between some
Speaker 3: people and others is like like a guy like me,
Speaker 3: I just and that's I don't I don't have I
Speaker 3: don't have any problems, you know, mentally getting out because
Speaker 3: I just that wasn't that. For one, I was never
Speaker 3: I was never afraid on any mission. I went on
Speaker 3: like I didn't go over seas and ever think I
Speaker 3: don't want to die, Like I just accepted I was
Speaker 3: going to get killed. Really from from almost day one
Speaker 3: of my first deployment, just accept them I'm not coming back. Well,
Speaker 3: if you can truly accept that, you're not going to
Speaker 3: be scared when when you know when bad things happen,
Speaker 3: and then you're not going to dwell on them in
Speaker 3: the past because if if it's a traumatic like scary situation,
Speaker 3: I think that's where the what do they call it now,
Speaker 3: the PTS or pt P. I think of this PTS whatever,
Speaker 3: like like I can I can see that happening. If
Speaker 3: that if that's a scary moment, and then you're replaying
Speaker 3: that in your head every single day, Well that's that's
Speaker 3: going to affect you, right, But to me, it like
Speaker 3: I just the next day, I let it go. It
Speaker 3: was the next it was the next day, it was
Speaker 3: the next mission. Like, I'm not thinking of what happened
Speaker 3: on that last mission, like, oh, two guys got shot.
Speaker 3: It could be me next. I didn't care, so amazing,
Speaker 3: which which I think helped me out a lot, especially
Speaker 3: now you know, being retired, I don't. I don't. There's
Speaker 3: no I don't ever. I don't ever look back and
Speaker 3: like feel like say o, I'm so I'm so lucky
Speaker 3: that I didn't get shot. I didn't get killed nothing ever,
Speaker 3: because I never I never thought about that when I
Speaker 3: was there, So I'm not going to think about it now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right in PTSD, obviously, it's just different. Everybody's
Speaker 2: got different upbringings, different storylines, and different ways of thinking,
Speaker 2: so it affects people differently. I mean we folks, but
Speaker 2: it's just different.
Speaker 3: I totally agree, Like I would never I would never
Speaker 3: say anything bad about someone that's saying they have it,
Speaker 3: but like to me that it was just never never
Speaker 3: affected me because I wanted to be in that situation.
Speaker 2: How many you think in the univer like that quite
Speaker 2: a bit?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean, And it's it's funny there. You don't.
Speaker 3: You're not friends with everyone. Everyone always thinks like everyone
Speaker 3: knows each other. You barely know many people. It's just
Speaker 3: the people that you actually train with and you go
Speaker 3: over seas with. And I mean, and that's another thing.
Speaker 3: Being fortunate to be on the right troop and the
Speaker 3: right squadron my whole career, Like everyone I worked with
Speaker 3: was like minded, like like on like on like how
Speaker 3: I was. I might be, I might be to the
Speaker 3: extreme of that, but it was all guys that wanted
Speaker 3: to be there. That's that's what's so cool like about
Speaker 3: that place, you know, like in wartime to being being
Speaker 3: around that many people that that had no fear and
Speaker 3: that actually wanted to be there, Like that's that's just
Speaker 3: awesome stuff that it would have been. It would have been
Speaker 3: cool to ask what was what was the the the
Speaker 3: guy's name, oh, John Schriker like it. It would have
Speaker 3: been cool to see if if he felt the same
Speaker 3: way like the guys that he went on you know,
Speaker 3: target with every night over in Vietnam, if that was
Speaker 3: the same feeling, or you know, we're some guys leary
Speaker 3: of you know, being there.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to see if we approach that or not,
Speaker 2: you know what that could be.
Speaker 3: That'd be that'd be that would be a cool one
Speaker 3: to see the difference of back then when it was
Speaker 3: a draft and who you know, we're guys just going
Speaker 3: there because they thought it was the best place to
Speaker 3: be and that you know that they have a better
Speaker 3: chance being you know, being on a team with a
Speaker 3: bunch of people, but still had fear or was everyone
Speaker 3: like like I'm explained, was like how it was at
Speaker 3: the unit. It'd be cool. It'd be interesting to see that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there was a little bit of that.
Speaker 2: He mentioned sometimes that some of the guys, most of
Speaker 2: the guys he just said, they didn't think about it.
Speaker 2: They just did what they had to do and that
Speaker 2: was the end of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one guy I think was one of the first
Speaker 2: guys he calls a Halo, high altitude low something or
Speaker 2: other yep, And he was the first guy to do it,
Speaker 2: and they were just doing it. It was about the
Speaker 2: end of it. It wasn't like we know what's going
Speaker 2: to happen. It's like, no, they just did it. I
Speaker 2: was like, really was And I asked him what kind
Speaker 2: of mindset did this guy have? Because he just didn't
Speaker 2: give a shit about anything.
Speaker 3: He just did it.
Speaker 2: That was the end of it. He didn't worry about it.
Speaker 2: How is Michael leg gonna hurt my toe, gonna get stuffed?
Speaker 2: He just did it.
Speaker 3: That was the end of it.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, all right, Yeah, I think a way
Speaker 2: to do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it'd be interesting to do a show with I
Speaker 3: wish I would have been able to jump on earlier.
Speaker 2: We can redo that one. I think it'd be a
Speaker 2: great one to have you, him, you and him on again,
Speaker 2: and then maybe even Nate and Gilly. We got to
Speaker 2: get Nate the least speaking remember, and I think that'd
Speaker 2: be a fascinating show.
Speaker 3: I apologize everyone on my memory.
Speaker 2: I still know some stories, but no, it's all right.
Speaker 2: Today it's kind of more of a different more about you,
Speaker 2: and I think I like the direction already we're going
Speaker 2: because the mindset is so different when people ask you.
Speaker 2: I'm going to ask you this question in a minute.
Speaker 2: But before I get to ask you that question, I
Speaker 2: won't see if you've ever heard of that phrase, and
Speaker 2: see if it resonates in the world of sports, there's
Speaker 2: a phrase that says, some people argue whether it's the
Speaker 2: athlete that picks the sport or the sport picks the athlete.
Speaker 2: So ballerinas tend to be long and lanky, So is
Speaker 2: it the sport that's actually picking those girls? And the
Speaker 2: guys so look like that already or do they turn
Speaker 2: into that whatever? But I'm wondering if the unit's the
Speaker 2: same way, is it the unit that's picking those guys
Speaker 2: or is it the guy picking the unit? And I
Speaker 2: get the funny feeling it might be the unit picking
Speaker 2: those guys. And in other words, you have to be
Speaker 2: a certain mindset to be able to deal.
Speaker 3: With that, and no one knows. No one knows the
Speaker 3: secret to that, so I can't talk about like how
Speaker 3: they select, which is awesome. I mean, that's like that's
Speaker 3: like one of the secrets that no one, no one
Speaker 3: has been told, you know, besides the people that are
Speaker 3: there's there's only real people at a given time. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but you still you still have to pick like you
Speaker 3: And that's that was the difference. That's why to be
Speaker 3: funny or it'd be cool to see the difference between
Speaker 3: like Vietnam and you know, the Special Ops in Vietnam
Speaker 3: compared to the Special Ops when when I was going overseas,
Speaker 3: because like when after after a couple of years of fighting,
Speaker 3: the unit was getting people that had already been overseas
Speaker 3: and they already realized they liked it, right, They they
Speaker 3: already knew that they like gunfighter. So the guys that
Speaker 3: we were getting, you know, are you're they're coming over
Speaker 3: not because they think it's just because it's a better
Speaker 3: unit and they and they think it's cool. They're going
Speaker 3: there because they know that that's they're they're gonna be
Speaker 3: getting it on a lot more like they're gonna be
Speaker 3: going on way more missions. Right, So, like the vetting
Speaker 3: process on the guys picking the unit is better because
Speaker 3: you know, almost almost every single guy after the after
Speaker 3: like the first four or five years that were coming
Speaker 3: to the unit, we're going there with experience. So they
Speaker 3: had already been in a gunfighter too, they already knew
Speaker 3: that they wanted more. You know, it wasn't like pre
Speaker 3: nine eleven when guys were going to the unit. They
Speaker 3: were going there like thinking that they that they would
Speaker 3: like it, but they'd never been in a gunfight. They
Speaker 3: didn't know.
Speaker 2: Oh like Somalia's black Hawk down the Operation Gothic Serpent thing,
Speaker 2: a lot of those guys hadn't gone yet.
Speaker 3: Right, So so it would have been it had been
Speaker 3: harder to pick. It would have been harder to get
Speaker 3: the right person that's picking the unit because they only know,
Speaker 3: Like if you've never been in a gunfight, you might
Speaker 3: think you want to be in a gunfight, but until
Speaker 3: you actually in a gunfight, you're not gonna know if
Speaker 3: you like it or not. So after, you know, three
Speaker 3: or four years after nine to eleven, we were getting
Speaker 3: people that knew they already liked gunfighting. Interesting, you know
Speaker 3: what I'm saying. So so it was it was an
Speaker 3: easier vetting process on the mindset of that compared to
Speaker 3: Prena eleven. But now, like the unit picking the right person,
Speaker 3: no one knows the secret like on on what they're
Speaker 3: what they're truly looking for, which I think is awesome Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's that's that's great that you know a guy that
Speaker 3: like me who had been there ten years, and guys
Speaker 3: that have been there fifteen twenty years, if they weren't
Speaker 3: in that position of the you know, to know what
Speaker 3: they're selecting for no one else, which is which is cool.
Speaker 3: It's a great secret.
Speaker 2: By the way, folks, again we're talking to Bob Killer.
Speaker 2: Can learn more about him at Gamut Resolutions gamut resolutions
Speaker 2: dot com. Also, if you're down in Tampa, Florida, can
Speaker 2: check out Range Works WRX and see what's going on
Speaker 2: down there, because we're gonna be you know what. It
Speaker 2: is kind of a I don't know if you know,
Speaker 2: probably not because I haven't talked to you for a
Speaker 2: little bit. But I'm getting another doctor in an exercise
Speaker 2: science and I'm seeing a lot of overlap here. And
Speaker 2: what I mean by that is it might take about
Speaker 2: ten second twenty seconds for me to collaborate on this.
Speaker 2: But what I'm seeing is the mentality you're describing right now.
Speaker 2: I can see the benefit it has for you. In
Speaker 2: other words, if you're not worried about getting shot, if
Speaker 2: you're not worried about dying, you're only worried about one
Speaker 2: thing winning this gunfight. Yep. That really takes a lot
Speaker 2: of distractions out because just like a baseball player, an
Speaker 2: athlete or mixed martial artists. I'm a big fan of UFC,
Speaker 2: if they're worried about getting hit, they're worried about getting mounted.
Speaker 2: Now they got two things operating.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: So am I right on that there is the same
Speaker 2: thing for you guys, Absolutely, Yeah, because I can't send
Speaker 2: that effective for you if you're worried about getting shot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's man and being on target, especially like once
Speaker 3: you get into like the two I se second in
Speaker 3: charge or first in charge team later like you're making
Speaker 3: judgment calls, right, So you can't be on target worrying
Speaker 3: about getting shot. Like you got to be thinking about
Speaker 3: the situation in front of you, which is the gunflight.
Speaker 3: You know, where your guys are gonna go, what door
Speaker 3: you're gonna go, where you're gonna send your guys. So
Speaker 3: there's a lot of thinking involved on being on target.
Speaker 3: So yeah, if you take the fear out of it
Speaker 3: and you can just it's like it's kind of like
Speaker 3: playing a game, right and you're you're calling plates. But
Speaker 3: if you can do that calm and not having to work,
Speaker 3: you know, not having that fear. It definitely makes it easier.
Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely applies.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you train that. I'm thinking of
Speaker 2: the back of my head. Have you used anything like
Speaker 2: that for your training when you train individuals? Obviously more advanced,
Speaker 2: But do you say, all right, we're gonna have a
Speaker 2: guy over there, he's gonna be shooting red pellets at
Speaker 2: you while you're trying to hit the target and you're moving.
Speaker 2: So now you have somebody moving and somebody getting worried
Speaker 2: about getting hit with the target. And if you get
Speaker 2: hit with the target, you're out. We move to the
Speaker 2: next person. Have you done that before?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well not not in my training.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't do any SIMS stuff where it's semunitions being shy.
Speaker 8: Not that that's a bad thing, but but it is easy.
Speaker 8: Like I do a class which I got another one
Speaker 8: coming up in the September. It's called Shooting Save and
Speaker 8: it's it's medical training along with shooting. But at the
Speaker 8: end of the second day we actually put the guys
Speaker 8: whose scenarios whether now they're doing like live fire with
Speaker 8: other people shooting around them live fire, and then they're
Speaker 8: we're incorporating the med stuff into it, and that's where
Speaker 8: it is. It's interesting to watch because I'll do all
Speaker 8: the shooting stuff, and then I bring another company in
Speaker 8: to do all the med stuff, and like I'll see
Speaker 8: guys that are just switched on, like on the shooting
Speaker 8: side right Like you can tell this guy's he knows
Speaker 8: what he's doing, like on the you know, weapons hand
Speaker 8: lane and shooting, and then you you put them into
Speaker 8: a live fire scenario med like med scenario, and and
Speaker 8: guys just shooting right next to him and then all
Speaker 8: of a sudden, you're like, all right, you're right leg shot.
Speaker 8: And then and then after he puts the turn to
Speaker 8: get on, you're like, all right, now that the mannequin
Speaker 8: has a sucking chess wind or something, you know. And
Speaker 8: to watch these guys that were switched on shooting to
Speaker 8: now just totally fall apart because their mind is now
Speaker 8: thinking of something else. It's it's pretty interesting to see
Speaker 8: h like not being able to stay calm. And they
Speaker 8: know it's training, it's not real keep, but people really
Speaker 8: get into it, like really get into it, and they're
Speaker 8: so worried about the med stuff and us yelling at
Speaker 8: him saying, you know, this is happening, and then you
Speaker 8: got you got threat left right right, and now they're
Speaker 8: trying to make shots and they're still thinking about what
Speaker 8: they were supposed to be doing to the to the patient.
Speaker 8: Like it basically all everything falls apart, which is it's
Speaker 8: it's but it's cool for them to see that, you know,
Speaker 8: like what they were doing perfect on the flat range
Speaker 8: when all they had to do is think about the
Speaker 8: shooting to now only have to think about multiple things,
Speaker 8: multiple like med stuff and shooting and people shooting around them.
Speaker 8: It's a it's a good eye opener for people to
Speaker 8: be Holy crap, I would have never thought it was
Speaker 8: that stressful, you know, when you incorporate other things than
Speaker 8: just shooting.
Speaker 2: So does it end for them? In other words, is
Speaker 2: there like an object an objective in the sense of
Speaker 2: you got to this guy and then.
Speaker 3: Yeah they got yeah, and we I mean, it's it's
Speaker 3: basically just a lane. So like the mannequins are out
Speaker 3: in front, they have to go to go to get
Speaker 3: the mannequins. They kind of got to come up with
Speaker 3: their own plan because we send them as a team.
Speaker 3: And then they once they get the mannequins back and
Speaker 3: everyone's treated, then we we index from there.
Speaker 2: But can they get ended if they get shot themselves,
Speaker 2: and that's it so if they failed the mission.
Speaker 3: No, it's not like a mission. I mean, it's just
Speaker 3: it's it's literally just the lane. But I mean, like
Speaker 3: if like I'll be in charge of the shooting guys,
Speaker 3: like the guys that are shooting, so I'll be like,
Speaker 3: they'll have barriers where where they're bringing the mannequins to
Speaker 3: the treatment, you know, and if someone if I say
Speaker 3: threat left, and two guys pop out from behind cover
Speaker 3: and start shooting when they could have used the cover,
Speaker 3: Like I'll just say, okay, now your left arm shot
Speaker 3: or your left leg shot because you weren't shooting behind cover.
Speaker 3: You know. But that's the stuff people don't think about,
Speaker 3: like because and that's it's it's kind of it's kind
Speaker 3: of can because no one's shooting back at them, so
Speaker 3: you know they will, they'll they'll pop out behind cover
Speaker 3: when they probably wouldn't if it was live. But you
Speaker 3: never know that they don't even think about it. Like
Speaker 3: sometimes I'll say your left leg shot and here's the
Speaker 3: reason why, and they they don't even realize that they
Speaker 3: weren't shooting from behind cover.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. It's kind of like sometimes it sounds like
Speaker 2: mixed martial arts. You do, any martial arts that you did,
Speaker 2: I did, yeah, boxing or something I did.
Speaker 3: I ended up ended up doing pretty much nothing butt boxing,
Speaker 3: so I was I would say I got pretty big
Speaker 3: into Brazilian jiu jitsu and then did I would say
Speaker 3: I got the unit more of the mixed martial arts,
Speaker 3: like combining both. But my just from all the grappling,
Speaker 3: my elbows were just totally shot. Yeah. I mean we
Speaker 3: would get to the point where I couldn't even shake
Speaker 3: someone's hand, okay, and I couldn't hold a pistol. So
Speaker 3: I stopped grappling and just went to straight up, you know,
Speaker 3: stand up boxing.
Speaker 2: Well, the reason I say is because the analogy seems
Speaker 2: similar to when people are learning how to box and
Speaker 2: they're trying to teach them how to throw a punch,
Speaker 2: and they throw a punch, but then they leave their
Speaker 2: hand down when they throw the punch, and they may
Speaker 2: tag them a little bit on the face. Hey keep
Speaker 2: your hand up, keep your hand up, And they're like,
Speaker 2: we'll go back to the punching, and kind of get
Speaker 2: like that, and I'm showing the motion folks where my
Speaker 2: left is supposed to cover my face while I'm throwing
Speaker 2: the right cross and people drop the left and then
Speaker 2: they get tagged by the instruction. That's a good instruct right,
Speaker 2: I think, because they're saying keep your hand up, and
Speaker 2: the kind of the same thing with yours because you've
Speaker 2: added so much extra stress stress And you said, people
Speaker 2: don't look to think about the guy popping up on
Speaker 2: the left fascinating, so when if that guy pops up.
Speaker 3: But that's that's a good example of like doing the
Speaker 3: basics over and over. Yeah, because if you're training on
Speaker 3: boxing and doing that throwing those punches and having your
Speaker 3: left hand or right hand up to protect your head,
Speaker 3: you do that thousands and thousands of reps, even when
Speaker 3: you're not thinking straight, that's still going to come into play, right,
Speaker 3: So same it should happen. And same thing with shooting.
Speaker 3: So it's like people have said, a lot of people
Speaker 3: have said, like the unit is the masters of perfecting
Speaker 3: the fundamentals of the basics, and that is true. You
Speaker 3: do the right thing thousands or hundreds of thousands of times.
Speaker 3: Eventually when it comes time to doing it for real,
Speaker 3: just kind of take over, and that that leads into
Speaker 3: gunfighting or like CQB, a close scores battle. If if
Speaker 3: all the stuff with my hands and my and my
Speaker 3: gun is straight up on autopilot, when I get into
Speaker 3: a gunfight, my brain can be thinking of the situation
Speaker 3: in front of me. It doesn't have to worry about
Speaker 3: getting into a good stance or getting into a good grip,
Speaker 3: or getting my hands where they need to be, or
Speaker 3: you know, working the selector switch, or getting my finger
Speaker 3: on the trigger where it needs to be, pulling the
Speaker 3: trigger properly to the rear, you know, resetting properly that
Speaker 3: I don't have to think about that if I've done
Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands of reps the correct way, so all
Speaker 3: that in a gunfight is this on autopenet. So my
Speaker 3: brain can one hundred percent be focused on the situation
Speaker 3: in front and that's how it needs to be.
Speaker 2: That's awesome. I guess the question now would be, we
Speaker 2: know with boxing, obviously you can go do it three
Speaker 2: or four times a week, what would you recommend for
Speaker 2: somebody who's in a higher level like that, How often
Speaker 2: should they be trained situations like that well?
Speaker 3: Or just or just shooting like the like the fundamentals
Speaker 3: and the basics.
Speaker 2: The fundamentals and the basics, and then.
Speaker 3: Also that's all it is. I mean, it's crazy people
Speaker 3: every and I don't I get it for like the
Speaker 3: normal civilian they like once they do the basics, like
Speaker 3: some people realize, Okay, I need to start with the basics.
Speaker 3: But then after a year or two year, two a
Speaker 3: couple of years of doing the basics, like I want
Speaker 3: to do the cool stuff, right, So then they end
Speaker 3: up going to like the cool guy classes and doing
Speaker 3: the running gun and stuff. And there's nothing wrong with that,
Speaker 3: but it's truly just perfecting the basics. So even though
Speaker 3: it's boring and that's what I do in my classes,
Speaker 3: like like I I'm kind of like the people have said,
Speaker 3: like I'm the known as like the boring instructor, like
Speaker 3: like I and I would never I would never change
Speaker 3: that because I know that that's what works, even though
Speaker 3: it's not the fun sex stuff. It's it's like that.
Speaker 3: I never I never did any like cool guys stuff
Speaker 3: at the unit john Wick stuff by myself. No, not
Speaker 3: one time did I do that when I when I
Speaker 3: would go shoot the range by myself and we would
Speaker 3: we would definitely do like the running gun and stuff.
Speaker 3: We do the vehicle stuff me included. But ninety ninety
Speaker 3: five percent of my training when I went to the
Speaker 3: range by myself, straight up basics, just over and over,
Speaker 3: year after year after year. It's the only thing that matters.
Speaker 2: Isn't there a picture with you holding an oozy sideways
Speaker 2: shooting that.
Speaker 3: Wasn't I'm sure I have a video out there like that.
Speaker 2: Now with a nowadays, you're probably do Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 2: When you see some of these videos with the gang members.
Speaker 2: That's not the funny part, but you see them shooting
Speaker 2: the gun and it's kind of clocked to the side,
Speaker 2: and you're kind of like.
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, what you're doing. It's all theatrics and and
Speaker 3: it sits again going back to like what people see
Speaker 3: in movies and they think that's the cool stuff, and
Speaker 3: that's what they want to do. If you want to
Speaker 3: be a good gunfighter, you do the basics. Hundreds and
Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands of times.
Speaker 2: It sounds like you're agreeing with Wyatt Earth when Wyatt
Speaker 2: says to win a gunfight, you have.
Speaker 3: To be someone There are multiple people have sent me
Speaker 3: some video that has gone kind of viral. I guess, yeah,
Speaker 3: and it was, and I listened to it. I was like, Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's exactly, that's that's how I was.
Speaker 2: Nothing, calm, collected a sure hand. That's the only way.
Speaker 2: You don't have to be fast, just has to be
Speaker 2: accurate and calm.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I totally agree with that, And it's it's
Speaker 3: cool to hear that from you know, like way back when,
Speaker 3: like he realized that that's the only thing it matter.
Speaker 2: So that's amazing because when I look at it, when
Speaker 2: I listen to your story now and listen to what
Speaker 2: you're talking about again, it goes back to that mentality
Speaker 2: you had you didn't worry about that allowed you to
Speaker 2: stay calm within there. Did you also notice and sports
Speaker 2: they'll call it flow, they'll call it time dilation where
Speaker 2: everything slows down? Did you notice that and your gunfights
Speaker 2: were slow and downs? You can concentrate, No, nothing at all.
Speaker 3: I've been asked that tons of times, and I've heard
Speaker 3: of other people saying that. I don't know if they're
Speaker 3: just saying that because they've heard that that was the thing,
Speaker 3: and then they think that they need to say that, No,
Speaker 3: that that never happened to me on target really like
Speaker 3: to where everything just slowed down and like everything was
Speaker 3: clear as no, I mean everything was clear. I mean
Speaker 3: it wasn't. There was it was one percent. Never even
Speaker 3: came close to panic thing or or being stressed out.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I've never had that like what people have said,
Speaker 3: like everything just slows down. It's like it's on slow
Speaker 3: mow or something that never happened to me. That could
Speaker 3: happened to other people, but to me, no, And.
Speaker 2: I don't mean to be too personal, but I know
Speaker 2: as I do these interviews. We also have a series.
Speaker 2: I do a lot of podcast folks, but there's another
Speaker 2: podcast I'm doing. We're doing a health series. I'm interviewing
Speaker 2: doctors from all kinds of fields and we had a
Speaker 2: vision doctor talking about myopia. But I'm also interviewing athletes
Speaker 2: and athletic terrainers and stuff. And it's kind of interesting
Speaker 2: because athletes are really different, not the same as everybody. Again,
Speaker 2: I really think sometimes the sport picks the player and
Speaker 2: they got stronger feet, They have bigger feet, sometimes stronger
Speaker 2: big to which is a big thing in the athletic world.
Speaker 2: But one of the things I learned and I'm wondering
Speaker 2: about you is a lot of athletes, especially in baseball,
Speaker 2: didn't just have twenty twenty. There was a study done
Speaker 2: in Japan in here where a lot of the number
Speaker 2: one hitters had twenty fifteen, twenty ten, and people just
Speaker 2: never hear that, and I'm wondering, did you have twenty
Speaker 2: twenty or better? Better?
Speaker 3: That's so funny that you wrapped that up because I've
Speaker 3: been saying that now. I never and that never even
Speaker 3: occurred to me that that was a big thing. And
Speaker 3: then the last couple of years. It's funny that you
Speaker 3: said that because so you've you've is like a proven
Speaker 3: thing that better people are just like the best athletes
Speaker 3: have better vision.
Speaker 2: I don't know about all the athletes. We have one
Speaker 2: right now. We're asking at an institute that studies athletes
Speaker 2: in different capacities and they have an eye area. But
Speaker 2: we know what the batters, there's a lot of them
Speaker 2: that are showing that that Ichro Suzuki was one that
Speaker 2: was being done. I interviewed his trainer. Echro Suzuki was
Speaker 2: the famous Japanese baseball player for the Yankees, and his
Speaker 2: vision was like twenty twelve or twenty fifteen, but once
Speaker 2: he got to about forty, it started to go to
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. And the reason being he couldn't pick up
Speaker 2: the laces of the ball. Let's just split second. That
Speaker 2: ball is coming at you a ninety plus, so you
Speaker 2: have to pick it up. And so I'm kind of
Speaker 2: curious about it because I'm getting the funny feeling everything
Speaker 2: else is different.
Speaker 3: I totally agree that. So in the last couple of
Speaker 3: years since I've been lose see my vision and it
Speaker 3: and it does suck. Now I'm fifty years old now
Speaker 3: and and I i've been I've been saying, like, I
Speaker 3: think that's the key, like to being a better operator
Speaker 3: or a better athlete, is all eyes. What did you
Speaker 3: say which I would have never thought that when I
Speaker 3: was there because I had that perfect vision, not that
Speaker 3: I was saying, not that I'm saying I was the best,
Speaker 3: but I think that helped me. What did you think
Speaker 3: or made me or made me better than others?
Speaker 2: Why would you say that? Do you think it was
Speaker 2: able to say?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I'm just now that now that I
Speaker 3: don't have that perfect vision like I did, like I
Speaker 3: am slower at doing things like I mean, you just
Speaker 3: you can't like especially being like operation. Like I mean, like,
Speaker 3: I think another thing is that now that I've been
Speaker 3: thinking about the whole eye thing and like what what
Speaker 3: does make people the best? I do think think it's
Speaker 3: like one of one of the biggest ones would be eyes,
Speaker 3: and then after that it's like I think balance is
Speaker 3: a huge deal too. People that have really good balance
Speaker 3: are better. Maybe not on athletic side, but like operator side,
Speaker 3: that's a huge deal. So like I this good eyes
Speaker 3: and a really good sense of balance. I think is
Speaker 3: the difference of like a good operator and a great operator.
Speaker 2: Why the balance? Where's the cup to play?
Speaker 3: For you guys, it's just like just all the and
Speaker 3: not I wouldn't say like shooting wise, but just everything,
Speaker 3: like the agility that we have to have, like on
Speaker 3: target and getting there faster and getting around things and
Speaker 3: getting up and over things like I and I could
Speaker 3: be way out way out there, But I'm like about,
Speaker 3: like what was the difference? And I think for me
Speaker 3: it was it was eyesight and balance and then everything else.
Speaker 3: You still got to be athletic. You still gotta have
Speaker 3: great cardio, You're still gotta have really good endurance, you
Speaker 3: gotta have speed, you gotta have strength, you know, to
Speaker 3: being the best of the best. But I mean just
Speaker 3: just in the last couple of years, I was thinking
Speaker 3: about it, like what what was the difference to me?
Speaker 3: I think it was iSight meunce. It's interesting good balance,
Speaker 3: just I don't know how to explain it, just like
Speaker 3: overall balance on just everything you're everything you're doing.
Speaker 2: You don't see if I can do it for you
Speaker 2: a little bit, because I know in the athletic world
Speaker 2: they have is what they call speed, agility, and quickness.
Speaker 2: So speed is running lineally, so I've got to run
Speaker 2: from this humvy right straight behind that building for cover.
Speaker 2: Agility means I gotta start dodging these things. And then quicknesses, ope,
Speaker 2: I got a response back here. I got to turn
Speaker 2: around fire, and then poof, I got to react to
Speaker 2: this thing, so kind of like a receiver wide receiver
Speaker 2: kind of reacting. So those three I can see those, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I can see those definitely applying for you. So those
Speaker 2: three things you think too, right.
Speaker 3: It's funny though, with the I st that you mentioned
Speaker 3: that because I have been thinking about that a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so I totally agree, Like, really good eyesight is the
Speaker 3: difference what.
Speaker 2: About and find motor skills if something else is going
Speaker 2: to be something I haven't explored yet, but I have
Speaker 2: seen some athletes have better mind, find motors more sensitive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think, like like for precision shooting, that'd
Speaker 3: be a thing, But like for like assault type stuff,
Speaker 3: I don't think that that would be that big a
Speaker 3: big a deal.
Speaker 2: Ok I.
Speaker 3: When it came down to like tostaddress you shots, like
Speaker 3: precision shooting, especially with the finger like that tigger finger,
Speaker 3: that would that would come into play. But like assault shooting,
Speaker 3: like fast, fast shooting, big target, I don't think that's
Speaker 3: that that big a deal. When it comes to the
Speaker 3: operator wise.
Speaker 2: It's fine. As we were interviewed in Mike Big Song,
Speaker 2: he's coming back next week a different guy than John,
Speaker 2: And I remember the story he was talking about when
Speaker 2: he was the first time ever deployed. He was in
Speaker 2: the helicopter and he was getting ready to land in
Speaker 2: Vietnam somewhere, and all of a sudden, he was about
Speaker 2: he told you, like ten feet away from the ground
Speaker 2: and he's getting dropped off by the helicopter. All of
Speaker 2: a sudden, these guys popped out of the bushes and
Speaker 2: started firing so they started firing, and then they hit
Speaker 2: the guy next to him, and he's, you know, he's
Speaker 2: helping him get back into the helicopter and blood all
Speaker 2: over his hands, and he starts telling me because he's
Speaker 2: he's got a doctor in psychology too. Now it's kind
Speaker 2: of funny, but he said, you know, I try to
Speaker 2: grab my I think it was amazine. I tried to
Speaker 2: grab it. I couldn't do it because my hands were
Speaker 2: so bloody and my fine motor skills were rocked because
Speaker 2: I was so nervous. He was like twenty one, twenty
Speaker 2: two years old, and I'm trying to grab this thing
Speaker 2: and I'm getting shot at. I couldn't do it. What
Speaker 2: kind of made me think about the fine motor skill?
Speaker 2: Do you notice that all with people you train, people
Speaker 2: who maybe get leery because of the sound of the gun,
Speaker 2: worried about the gun.
Speaker 3: Well ye having issues? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean by
Speaker 3: people that aren't that don't shoot a lot, and that
Speaker 3: aren't confident like with they're with with their weapons handling skills. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's a huge deal. And that's that's probably the biggest thing,
Speaker 3: one of the biggest things. I uh that that I
Speaker 3: want you to get out of one of my classes
Speaker 3: is becoming more confident. And that's what confidence in in
Speaker 3: weapons handling. So like after two days, two days of
Speaker 3: two days of a class that you're with me, or
Speaker 3: if you come back to their class it's a five
Speaker 3: day class. I'll always say it to begin in the class.
Speaker 3: One of the one of the three things that I
Speaker 3: really want you getting out of my class is becoming smarter, safer,
Speaker 3: and more confident.
Speaker 2: Let's see the confidence.
Speaker 3: Part and like, and the confidence thing is is a
Speaker 3: huge huge deal people don't have, like just taking all
Speaker 3: the people out there in America that have concealed carry
Speaker 3: proments that that carry daily that don't actually have the
Speaker 3: confidence that they can that that they can make a
Speaker 3: hospitalsue shot or that they can actually manipulate that gun proper.
Speaker 3: So it was a lot I feel that is that's
Speaker 3: you know, not only the shooting and accuracy. I definitely
Speaker 3: want you getting that out of my class, but just
Speaker 3: after two days of the drills that I'm putting you through.
Speaker 3: It it's after those two days you should feel like
Speaker 3: I can control these guns, like I do know what
Speaker 3: I'm doing right, So yeah, you're not fidgit and you're
Speaker 3: not you're not second guessing yourself and you put your pistol,
Speaker 3: You're you're bringing your rifle up. It's a it's a
Speaker 3: huge deal. Like confidence in a gunfight was almost everything. Wow,
Speaker 3: if you don't have if like if you if you're
Speaker 3: going if you're going into a gunfight because you're in
Speaker 3: the military, and you second guess yourself or you doubt yourself,
Speaker 3: or if you're a concealed carry person you're carrying a
Speaker 3: pistol and you you leave the house that day and
Speaker 3: you're questioning if you can make a host rescue shot
Speaker 3: fast enough. You think you're going to be a good gunfighter,
Speaker 3: You're gonna suck, right. You You have to know when
Speaker 3: you leave that house. And that's where training comes into play.
Speaker 3: You train enough to where you have that confidence to
Speaker 3: know when you leave your house, if I get in
Speaker 3: a gunfight, I can definitely be fascinated. I can definitely
Speaker 3: be accurate enough to not shoot a friendly And that's
Speaker 3: so that's the confidence you have to have. So those
Speaker 3: those three things are like the biggest thing I want
Speaker 3: to get out of any class that you come do
Speaker 3: with me.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, Bob and again, we're talking
Speaker 2: to Bob Keller. You can find more about them at
Speaker 2: gammut resolutions dot com, g a m ut resolutions dot com,
Speaker 2: or Killer Gammut Resolutions over on Instagram. For down to
Speaker 2: Tampa near Tampa, want to fly to Tampa, you check
Speaker 2: out range Works w r X w rx X range Works.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, Bob again, another analogy, but
Speaker 2: this time we're going to go over to the mixed
Speaker 2: martial arts I've talked to. I've interviewed a lot of
Speaker 2: black belts in jiu jitsu and some coaches from fights,
Speaker 2: and it's interesting to me. I wish you gout Don
Speaker 2: fry On here, but it's interesting to me about one
Speaker 2: of the things I hear them say a lot is
Speaker 2: people come in here thinking they already know how to fight,
Speaker 2: even though they don't know how to fight. Is one
Speaker 2: of those challenges. And I'm thinking, do you have the
Speaker 2: same thing or people saying, well, I'm show me a
Speaker 2: couple of tricks. I got this down already. Yep.
Speaker 3: It's really oh. I every I would say, every single class,
Speaker 3: like you have you have people coming that like I've
Speaker 3: been I've been shooting guns for thirty years, like I
Speaker 3: I know what I'm doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and.
Speaker 3: I think that's I'm a I'm a pretty good instructor
Speaker 3: when it comes to like I'm never gonna look at
Speaker 3: someone that says, hey, I've been shooting for thirty years.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be like, oh, you don't know shit, right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna treat everyone equal, but like I'm gonna show
Speaker 3: them the drills that I not that I think that
Speaker 3: I know, you should be proficient at to know what
Speaker 3: you're doing in a gunfight. And then you know, like
Speaker 3: those those those people that come and thought that they
Speaker 3: were proficient, like they've been shooting for thirty forty years,
Speaker 3: they know what they're doing, you know, just after a
Speaker 3: two day class, they'll they'll they'll come like after the class,
Speaker 3: couple come up to me like like I am, I
Speaker 3: had no idea like where I should have been, you know,
Speaker 3: like on gun handling and my proficiency, my speed, my
Speaker 3: accuracy on targets. So yeah, I see it every class.
Speaker 3: I mean it's crazy. So yeah, like people that would
Speaker 3: come and say that they can fight, you know, and
Speaker 3: then you're actually fighting against someone who does it for real.
Speaker 3: It's it's gonna be a big eye over right, the
Speaker 3: same thing, same thing I see in classes.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, so it's almost better. It sounds like to go
Speaker 2: in there with a blank slate, or at least the
Speaker 2: mentality of blank slate.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yep, which which most people. I mean. I
Speaker 3: think I'm fortunate to being an instructor coming from where
Speaker 3: I came from. Like, people know my background. Even if
Speaker 3: they even if they think they know better, they're still
Speaker 3: gonna listen, you know. Like it's not like going to
Speaker 3: instructor that has no gun fighting experience, you know. So
Speaker 3: I'm kind of lucky in that aspect. But still I
Speaker 3: would never even if someone even if someone was questioning everything,
Speaker 3: I'm not. I don't know, I'm not one of those
Speaker 3: guys that are gonna be like, hey, shut up and
Speaker 3: go to the corner, you know, go to the corner.
Speaker 3: This is the way that I've done it. That's kept
Speaker 3: me alive for fourteen deployments and over one thousand thousand
Speaker 3: hits because the eight hundred were just at the unit
Speaker 3: and I had the other ones at the SF. So
Speaker 3: I have experienced, right, and I've actually been in hundreds
Speaker 3: of gunfights, so it's I have the pedigree to help
Speaker 3: me as an instructor for people to listen, you know,
Speaker 3: which would be the same thing if you were going
Speaker 3: if you were going to go go to a class
Speaker 3: with a boxer that had never been in the ring,
Speaker 3: like he he learned all his boxing from a book
Speaker 3: and from watching videos, right Like, You're not gonna listen
Speaker 3: to him as much as someone who's who has who's
Speaker 3: been in a hundred actual fights, right has a sex pack.
Speaker 3: It's kind of the same thing with with with like
Speaker 3: the shooting industry.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, I guess society wise, I
Speaker 2: would deem it so important for cops to come to
Speaker 2: see you because these guys are going to get into
Speaker 2: these things. They're the ones who really probably going to
Speaker 2: get into it, and they get the least amount of training.
Speaker 3: Yep. And that's the majority of my classes are l
Speaker 3: E classes or agencies or military. I mean, I do
Speaker 3: a ton of opener owning classes, but the majority of
Speaker 3: my classes are and those are the.
Speaker 9: I would say, those are the ones that are smart
Speaker 9: enough to know that there's other there's other means out there.
Speaker 9: Especially on the SWAT side. A lot of WAT teams
Speaker 9: think they know better and the way that they've been
Speaker 9: trained that's the way they're going to do it. But
Speaker 9: the smart ones are like, hey, there's probably other people
Speaker 9: out there that have done you know, been a ton
Speaker 9: more gunfights that we've been into. Like let's see a
Speaker 9: different method, let's see a different way of training that'll
Speaker 9: hit me up.
Speaker 3: And that's so it's it's awesome doing classes for those guys.
Speaker 3: What was how did you? How did you start off
Speaker 3: the question because there was something I was going to
Speaker 3: say about Ellie society. So then the other thing you see,
Speaker 3: excuse now my.
Speaker 2: Bad habit tobacco.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very it's very interesting to see. So you
Speaker 3: don't see a lot of Elie guys coming on their
Speaker 3: own dime like to open only classes. But the guys
Speaker 3: that you do see which is awesome, awesome that they
Speaker 3: finally realize how important it is. But most cops, and
Speaker 3: this this is this is not talking about SWAT, but
Speaker 3: like most b cops, they do it for a job,
Speaker 3: like they do it for a paycheck, right, which is horrible.
Speaker 3: Like they're not doing it because they want to do
Speaker 3: cops stuff. They're doing it because it's a it's an
Speaker 3: easy paycheck. So not many of them think that they're
Speaker 3: ever going to get a gun fight. Well, the I'd
Speaker 3: say ninety five ninety eight percent of cops that come
Speaker 3: on their own dime to an OpenH only class. Are
Speaker 3: our officers that have actually been in a gunfight. Oh really,
Speaker 3: they'll come because now because once once that cop, that
Speaker 3: that one cop that didn't take it serious, never thought
Speaker 3: he was going to be in a gunfight, never trained, never,
Speaker 3: you know, never got proficient with this fire. Wrong that
Speaker 3: one time he has to use it and he sucks,
Speaker 3: you know, and and now he's in the fear of
Speaker 3: his life. Now after that, they're the ones that are
Speaker 3: now searching for for for courses or for classes or
Speaker 3: for training because they know how easy they could have
Speaker 3: got killed. You ever have, you know, it's it's unfortunate
Speaker 3: that that's what it takes. But a lot of times
Speaker 3: it takes people to you know, to be in a
Speaker 3: bad situation to actually realize, holy crap, I need to
Speaker 3: actually spend some time like doing you know, like practicings.
Speaker 2: Do you ever have to speak or no.
Speaker 3: I've had a I've had a couple actually called in
Speaker 3: two classes that was actually like hey, Jack to actually
Speaker 3: like to say they're you know, tell their experience yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: because it is. It's crazy, Like ninety five ninety eight
Speaker 3: percent of the people or cops that come to like
Speaker 3: pay on their own dime, or guys that have been
Speaker 3: in officer involved shootings.
Speaker 2: I think it'd be great for you for your business
Speaker 2: as well as they haven't testimonials and little video recordings
Speaker 2: of them and you can show you may think you
Speaker 2: may not need this, but.
Speaker 3: That's what they say. So many of them don't. They
Speaker 3: just never think it's going to be them that has
Speaker 3: to you know, that has to do it.
Speaker 2: So that's you're that kind of a position too.
Speaker 3: If they're just like we were on deployment every day,
Speaker 3: any any moment when they're on duty or even even
Speaker 3: off duty, they could you know, they could be in
Speaker 3: a gunfight. Like if I was a cop, I'd be
Speaker 3: training my ass off every day, like which which I
Speaker 3: did when when I was at the unit, even though
Speaker 3: it was you know, we we were back in the rear,
Speaker 3: not fighting, but I was like, you're you're always you're
Speaker 3: always trained for that next deployment, which which a cop,
Speaker 3: that's every day, you know, the next time. So yeah,
Speaker 3: it is. It is crazy though, and it's a it's
Speaker 3: a it's an individual thing, but it's also a department thing,
Speaker 3: you know, like on the lack of training that they
Speaker 3: give them. And I get it, it's it's a budget thing.
Speaker 3: Maybe if you talk about forcing your guys to get
Speaker 3: trained up like they should, that would that would be
Speaker 3: ten fifteen classes a year. Well if you look at
Speaker 3: trying to get every single officer in America trained up
Speaker 3: to that standard with the round counts and the overtime,
Speaker 3: I mean it would it would be billions and billions
Speaker 3: of dollars.
Speaker 2: Really.
Speaker 3: I get that they can't do it. But if I
Speaker 3: was a cop on my own, or like on my own,
Speaker 3: if if the department wasn't sending me to classes or
Speaker 3: they weren't let me go to the range every every week,
Speaker 3: I'd be doing on my own time. And and I
Speaker 3: did like I like when I was in rangem time
Speaker 3: and special Forces back then, and even even now they don't.
Speaker 3: They don't get to train as much as like the unit,
Speaker 3: not even not even really so when I was as
Speaker 3: I would actually I would actually spend my own money
Speaker 3: to buy my own ammal and go to the range
Speaker 3: by myself. Oh wow, Because I always I always wanted
Speaker 3: to be prepared. You know that that was pre nine
Speaker 3: to eleven. That was that was before anything was going on.
Speaker 3: But I'm never going to go into a situation not
Speaker 3: being the best. So if I have to spend my
Speaker 3: own money to do that, I'm going to do that.
Speaker 3: And I think that's what law enforcement agency guys should
Speaker 3: be doing too. Unfortunately they don't.
Speaker 2: Those are the large ones. I mean you see somebod
Speaker 2: these like in Chicago, La, New York. I mean, you're
Speaker 2: gonna every time I bought the officers there, how many
Speaker 2: times do you pollt your gun? How many times this week?
Speaker 2: And it's like, holy crap already? But then I've interview
Speaker 2: guys from like No Offense to Fargo. But out there
Speaker 2: in Fargo, how many times do you poll your gun?
Speaker 2: In my career, yeah, one is like, oh, I can
Speaker 2: see that right. But LAPD, I'm looking at going how
Speaker 2: do you not get training way above the normal on that?
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: I had a best friend. He joined LAPD when we
Speaker 2: got out of high school. And I'll never forget it
Speaker 2: was the very first night he said, I'm going out
Speaker 2: today is my first ride with the FTO, And I said,
Speaker 2: great fun and be saved. He calls me that night.
Speaker 2: I said, how did it go? My very first call?
Speaker 2: You can tell he was really solemn and I need something.
Speaker 2: Shit happened. I was only nineteen at the time, or
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one. We're twenty one. I said, what happened?
Speaker 2: He goes, we went to an officer down call. That
Speaker 2: was my first call. I said, no, kid, what happened?
Speaker 2: He goes, Then I got shot at I was like, whoa. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And he stayed on for I think nine years and
Speaker 2: then left. But I mean it happened like that first day.
Speaker 2: I mean, holy can it was in hours. I think
Speaker 2: it was as it was a first call. It was
Speaker 2: like an hour and a half into it.
Speaker 3: And for I mean then for the right guy, the
Speaker 3: right mindset that had been like, oh, I'm staying on
Speaker 3: this job forever. Yeah, and he said something some people
Speaker 3: don't like it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't like it enough.
Speaker 3: He stayed.
Speaker 2: And I think his dad was a cop, his two
Speaker 2: brothers were cops. Everybody was a cop in that family
Speaker 2: was like blue bloods. And eventually, but he he didn't
Speaker 2: have the passion for it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was out.
Speaker 2: I mean he didn't go the whole twenty years either. No,
Speaker 2: it's amazing again, folks. Range Works highly recommended Gamma resolutions
Speaker 2: dot com. Check it out. See where they're traveling to.
Speaker 2: He's everywhere, it seems like right now. Take advantage of
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Speaker 8: Well.
Speaker 2: I guess our the last few minutes together feels like
Speaker 2: we've done two podcasts.
Speaker 3: You could just split them in half.
Speaker 2: It was funny that I talked to John for like
Speaker 2: an hour and a half, like whoa, I guess in
Speaker 2: our last few minutes. AGA's really interesting to talk and
Speaker 2: didn't go the way I thought it was going to
Speaker 2: go because we went straight into mindset and really blew
Speaker 2: that up, which was kind of fun. We really explored
Speaker 2: a lot of different areas. I don't know if you
Speaker 2: do this again back to the athlete metaphors here, but
Speaker 2: they do a lot of breathing. This is one thing
Speaker 2: I've noticed with athletes, especially in high pressure situations. So
Speaker 2: then I get shot at, but the bases are loaded.
Speaker 2: You're making two million a year, you got pressure on you,
Speaker 2: or you're getting ready to advance to the next level.
Speaker 2: They recommend breathing. They recommend visualization, imagery work right, think
Speaker 2: of yourself throwing that pitch, breathe in this situation, any
Speaker 2: of that apply here? Would it be good to visualize things?
Speaker 2: He's already shaking his head, folks, Would it be good
Speaker 2: to breathe anything like that? Or none?
Speaker 10: No?
Speaker 3: The bit well I was I was laughing because you're
Speaker 3: talking about breathing the visualization. I might be able to
Speaker 3: get on board with that. But breathing to me, I
Speaker 3: called to me, But no, that's only me like that
Speaker 3: that help you know, everyone else, But that was that
Speaker 3: was never a factor for me, like you know, like
Speaker 3: trying to slow your heart rate down, take that deep
Speaker 3: fucking breath or that tactical deep breath, which I have
Speaker 3: said that before, like the other people, but to me,
Speaker 3: like especially on like shots, because a lot of people
Speaker 3: will say, like breathe, like breath control, which is it's
Speaker 3: a fundamental in the in the shooting fundamentals. That has
Speaker 3: never been a factor to me, like on target actually
Speaker 3: shooting dudes that I have never had even even coming
Speaker 3: off like a two thousand full on sprint to target
Speaker 3: I've never had to like be like when I was
Speaker 3: bringing the gun up to make that shot, like actually
Speaker 3: have to slow my breathing down like that. It just
Speaker 3: it was just never, it was never factor for me.
Speaker 3: But that's I think that's the beauty of I think
Speaker 3: how it should be for all sports and and for everyone.
Speaker 3: You do what works for you, like, definitely try different things.
Speaker 3: But if if if the best athletes in the world
Speaker 3: are saying this is what you need to do and
Speaker 3: that doesn't work for you, well don't force it to
Speaker 3: work for you, right, I mean, same thing with shooting.
Speaker 3: If someone's saying you have to have breath control before
Speaker 3: you shoot, if that doesn't work for you, well don't
Speaker 3: have breath control.
Speaker 10: I mean, that's I think the difference between like I
Speaker 10: call bullshit through all things because I'm I'm I'm realistic
Speaker 10: and then and I and definitely it's just a lot
Speaker 10: of things didn't apply to me that that most people
Speaker 10: would do.
Speaker 3: That was a little bit weird on that.
Speaker 2: Well, again, I'm wondering if it's your unique skill set
Speaker 2: that made you you were so comfortable with the gunfight
Speaker 2: that you didn't have to worry about breathing because you
Speaker 2: weren't getting anxious.
Speaker 3: And that that maybe that was maybe that was a
Speaker 3: factor too. But even even when I shoot, like like
Speaker 3: practice shooting, like I was a sniper and SF I
Speaker 3: went through sniper school as a sniper on the team,
Speaker 3: and then breath control is like a big deal when
Speaker 3: it comes to sniper shots, not to me, like I
Speaker 3: never had to use breath control shooting. So again, if
Speaker 3: that helps other people be better athletically in games or
Speaker 3: better shooters, absolutely do it. But if it if it
Speaker 3: doesn't apply to you, don't just because someone else is
Speaker 3: saying do that, don't try to make that work for you,
Speaker 3: because everyone's everyone's different, That's right, And I think that's
Speaker 3: not that would apply to every sport out there, And
Speaker 3: definitely when it comes to me is my sport is
Speaker 3: in gunfighting. That's That's another big one I put out
Speaker 3: is you do what works for you, and that if
Speaker 3: you truly want to become great at what you're doing,
Speaker 3: you have to figure out what works for you, now,
Speaker 3: what works for ten other people, what works for you,
Speaker 3: and where that work and how you find that out
Speaker 3: is by practicing, by putting the time in. You know
Speaker 3: a lot of people, I think a lot of people
Speaker 3: do what other people do because they don't want to
Speaker 3: put the time it. So they want to read the book,
Speaker 3: they want to watch videos, and they think, Okay, this
Speaker 3: this guy is the best of what he's doing, and
Speaker 3: this is what he's saying to do. I'm gonna I'm
Speaker 3: gonna do exactly what he's doing. That's not gonna work
Speaker 3: for everyone, but people are lazy. People don't want to
Speaker 3: put the time in. Like if someone was saying, you
Speaker 3: want to be you want to be an Olympic marathon runner,
Speaker 3: and you watched one video on this Olympic marathon running.
Speaker 3: He was telling you how to run, and you were
Speaker 3: trying to make that work. Well, that's probably he's got
Speaker 3: different feet, different legs, different arms, different Torso, right, you
Speaker 3: have to get out there and do a shit ton
Speaker 3: of marathons to figure out what works for you. So
Speaker 3: the same thing. Same thing with shooting. So I'm big
Speaker 3: on that. It's it's never the easy answer. You have
Speaker 3: to put the timing. And I think that was the
Speaker 3: difference between me and others is I put the time in.
Speaker 3: I figured out what actually worked for me.
Speaker 2: That's usually for a lot of the champion athletes too.
Speaker 2: I mean, do you have a metric too. I'm assuming
Speaker 2: if I'm correct, hitting correct if I'm own, of course,
Speaker 2: But the metric you have is hitting the target. That's
Speaker 2: a simple metric, just like a picture, hitting the target
Speaker 2: and then you hit it better with breathing or without.
Speaker 2: Is that where you use the visualization you actually focus
Speaker 2: on having them imagine themselves draw I fire.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say like shooting dude, Like, I don't even
Speaker 3: know if I ever visualized. I just I'm not calling
Speaker 3: bullshit to that, like I think that can happen. It's
Speaker 3: just it's funny. I was just actually thinking about that today.
Speaker 3: Did eight mile eight mile runs? Right?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: And I'm like people that visualize, if they're running, they're like,
Speaker 3: I have another five miles to go, and they're visualizing
Speaker 3: another five miles. That's gonna wear on their brain. That's good.
Speaker 3: They're they're gonna want to quit, right, But if you visualize,
Speaker 3: you know you still have five more miles to go,
Speaker 3: and on that last quarter mile you'll still have like
Speaker 3: you know, some gas left in you. But and that's
Speaker 3: all you're focused on, is that the last quarter mile
Speaker 3: to fifth you know that five more miles that you have.
Speaker 3: I think it helps you, like mindset wise, to stay
Speaker 3: in there. No, no, instead of thinking of every step
Speaker 3: and every like okay, one more, one more, just make
Speaker 3: it one more block and then another block. Now you
Speaker 3: visualize on you still have five more miles, then it's
Speaker 3: no big deal.
Speaker 2: Oh no, No, I think that what they use visualizations for,
Speaker 2: like a basketball player shooting free throws, so they'll visualize
Speaker 2: let's say she shoots the free throw and makes it.
Speaker 2: Then they're saying, we want you to visualize how that
Speaker 2: looks and how that feels every time you do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah I did that, Yeah, exactly, totally.
Speaker 3: I totally know what the actual visualizedzation is. But like
Speaker 3: I'm shooting that, that never was a thing like getting
Speaker 3: off the helicopter in me, like visualized. Okay, I possibly
Speaker 3: have three threats in the compounds coming up. I'm gonna
Speaker 3: see their chest. No, that was never that was that
Speaker 3: was that was never a thing for me. But again,
Speaker 3: if that's if that's gonna help someone else.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, actually that makes some good question. Do
Speaker 2: you do You said you have guys that pop up
Speaker 2: Do you have also those little pop up targets that
Speaker 2: we've seen in the movies with the pups up and
Speaker 2: then you shoot at it. That really.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there you're usually like turners, so that instead of
Speaker 3: popping up, they'll they'll be like this and then they'll
Speaker 3: they'll turn or they'll be like this and then all
Speaker 3: of a sudden they'll turn.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So and that's that's really that's awesome training, really good,
Speaker 3: is it? Or if you had to pop up target
Speaker 3: like that? So if you if you're standing there that
Speaker 3: it's it's not only for making fast shots, but it's
Speaker 3: it's really for a targeted identification, so like like seeing hands,
Speaker 3: seeing what they have, so you know, are they a threat?
Speaker 3: Are they not a threat? So right when it comes,
Speaker 3: right when it comes in, like it'll only stand like
Speaker 3: this for like two or three seconds, and as you
Speaker 3: are seeing that target, seeing the threat, seeing the hostage
Speaker 3: and then or if it's a hostage rescue shot or not,
Speaker 3: or if it's a threat target, you have to as
Speaker 3: the guns coming up, you have to not only see
Speaker 3: their hands, does he have a gun in his hand?
Speaker 3: Are you actually you know, is he a threat? And
Speaker 3: then once you identify it's a threat, well then you
Speaker 3: guys see it. You know, is there a hostage next
Speaker 3: to him, Like where am I going to shoot him?
Speaker 3: So like targets I got are are awesome like for
Speaker 3: training wise identifying threat or no threat, And that's really
Speaker 3: that's really all they are. Like shooting is one thing,
Speaker 3: but when you actually get into further down the road
Speaker 3: of actually gun fighting, like you not only have to
Speaker 3: be accurate fast, but you also have to be able
Speaker 3: to identify is that a threat that I'm going to
Speaker 3: engage or not? I mean, it's it's a that's probably
Speaker 3: the separation of like like good shooters and and and
Speaker 3: bad ass shooters, right, guys, guys that can make that
Speaker 3: decision and that split second as the gun's coming up
Speaker 3: to actually see those hands and to Yep, he's a
Speaker 3: threat and I'm gonna shoot him the chest hope, Wait
Speaker 3: he's got body arm around. Nope, not shooting the chest
Speaker 3: and shooting the face. That's all stuff that has to
Speaker 3: happen in a nanosecond. So so yeah, once you once
Speaker 3: you get the shooting down, then it is coming. Like
Speaker 3: the other thing that comes into play is actually being
Speaker 3: identified threats are.
Speaker 2: I had two questions before I interviewed you today. Somebody, Oh,
Speaker 2: can you ask him this can you ask him? One
Speaker 2: was do you like those guns? I guess he saw
Speaker 2: it on Amazon and they have guns where they have
Speaker 2: like a little red light. You quickly draw it and
Speaker 2: then you pack the red light on it. He said,
Speaker 2: Can that helpful while I'm sitting there watching a movie?
Speaker 2: Would that be helpful to train on it?
Speaker 3: Is it the? Is it the like the drive fire?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a dry fire gun thing he had.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you put it on target and then you
Speaker 3: drive fire it, and then it shows you like like
Speaker 3: how accurate you were, how the gun moved, you know,
Speaker 3: with your trigger pull.
Speaker 2: Let me see what his text said.
Speaker 3: That's where it is like, I don't I don't actually
Speaker 3: use those, but I would never That's a good training tool. Yes,
Speaker 3: any anything to get you to do drive fire is
Speaker 3: a good tool.
Speaker 2: It's a drive fire or laser training thing. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay, nope, man, you can get the same thing out
Speaker 3: of that by just watching your front sight so or
Speaker 3: your red dot on target. So if your red dots,
Speaker 3: if you just have a red dot on your pistol
Speaker 3: or on your rifle, you put it up on target
Speaker 3: as you're screened the trigger. If you watch that red
Speaker 3: dot stayed dead still on that on the spot of
Speaker 3: the target that you're shooting. You know you have a
Speaker 3: perfect tear pull. If you see that red dot moved
Speaker 3: just a little bit over the right, you probably know
Speaker 3: your trigger pull yanked over the right. But that's it's
Speaker 3: it's the same thing as what the what the laser does.
Speaker 2: Well. And then the other question, actually it wasn't from him.
Speaker 2: The other question was he saw this. I guess on
Speaker 2: some I don't know what he saw it on. He
Speaker 2: doesn't mention. I guess some cop show or something. They
Speaker 2: have a couple of guys that were wearing a The
Speaker 2: holster wasn't on the hip, it was on the thigh.
Speaker 2: Have you seen those where they have a thing wrapped
Speaker 2: around the thigh, And I guess I wanted to know
Speaker 2: what your take on that is.
Speaker 3: So they're they're definitely doable when you're on the range.
Speaker 3: So they're called drop down holsters that that go on
Speaker 3: your thigh, and we actually we use those for years
Speaker 3: when I went through OTC, we actually used I use
Speaker 3: the drop leg holster when it comes to operational stuff
Speaker 3: like doing it for real, like if you're running, even
Speaker 3: if you're running twenty yards. They got a full sprint.
Speaker 3: If you have that thing wrapped around your thigh, it's
Speaker 3: gonna move like that pistol will be in the front
Speaker 3: of your leg. It'll be be you know, behind your legs.
Speaker 3: They don't stay stable there. I would if you're, if
Speaker 3: you're if whoever asked if you're, if you're thinking about
Speaker 3: buying one, I would say absolutely not. Like by you
Speaker 3: can buy like the half drop down line half drop
Speaker 3: down so they're still on your belt. They come down
Speaker 3: a little bit a little bit further so it clears
Speaker 3: if you were body armor, like it's not gonna be
Speaker 3: up against your b but they'll still they'll still stay
Speaker 3: on your belt. But if you have a full drop
Speaker 3: down holster that's on your sigh, you're when you're actually
Speaker 3: doing stuff for real, they're all over the place. So
Speaker 3: now if you if you have to draw your holster
Speaker 3: or if you if you have to dry your pistol
Speaker 3: and your hand comes down to where you think it
Speaker 3: usually is, it's usually not going to be there a
Speaker 3: drop down holster. Interesting, like for training wise, they're fine
Speaker 3: because usually most people shoot static like they're they're they're
Speaker 3: not moving, so it's always going to be there. But
Speaker 3: when you actually start moving around, those things move all
Speaker 3: over the place.
Speaker 2: Why did they do it? Was it faster grab or
Speaker 2: what was the reason for that? You don't have to
Speaker 2: lift up your elbow or I.
Speaker 3: Don't know if it's a faster draw. So I mean
Speaker 3: usually with with body armor, people don't want the gun
Speaker 3: high up on their belt because now the body armor
Speaker 3: is either over the over the pistol or it's riding
Speaker 3: on the pistol, so it is hard to get it out.
Speaker 3: So if you put a drop leg on, now it's
Speaker 3: away from your body arm, you can get you can
Speaker 3: get a pistol out.
Speaker 2: That's where the.
Speaker 3: Half the half dropped downs came in, so they're not
Speaker 3: all the way down to your thigh, but they do
Speaker 3: clear your body armor. I still so I put my
Speaker 3: body armor higher up on my on my torso, and
Speaker 3: I kept my pistol on my belt. It's it's just
Speaker 3: screwed around with your with your kit knowing you know
Speaker 3: that again you have to go to the range or
Speaker 3: go outside screw around with it. I get to where
Speaker 3: your your pistol is not going to be moving around,
Speaker 3: and then you adjust your kit off of that.
Speaker 2: Good advice, Good advice. Well, I think that's about ready
Speaker 2: to wrap us up. We've been together for a long
Speaker 2: time today. Yeah, it was a great conversation. I really
Speaker 2: enjoyed it a lot because it took a different direction.
Speaker 2: I never really think about them a whole lot ahead
Speaker 2: of times. I know, I asked one question and that
Speaker 2: these are rabbit holes. That's where it ended up today. Yeah, so, folks, again,
Speaker 2: if you want to learn more, you can look up
Speaker 2: Gammut Resolutions gm ut resolutions dot com. You can look
Speaker 2: up Killer Gammut Resolutions over on Instagram, and if you're
Speaker 2: in Tampa, Florida, visit Range Works wr X to check
Speaker 2: it out. So if you've never fired a gun, ever
Speaker 2: shot a gun, just got a gun, just got your CCW,
Speaker 2: I highly recommend you check it out. They're not toys, folks.
Speaker 2: You definitely don't want to play around. Bob. I can't
Speaker 2: thank you enough for doing this again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do it again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think your idea was great. We
Speaker 2: should bring John back and and Nayan and I think
Speaker 2: that would be a lot crazy time. John's the characters
Speaker 2: as well, and they're gonna be a fun time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: talking about those stories.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Yep, Thank you everyone for listening, Share, subscribe, hit that
Speaker 2: I Like button, Go check out gammut resolutions. Folks,