WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:05.599 It's the Lapsed Fan Wrestling podcast with Jack and carn 2 00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:10.720 S e O and JP sorrows He's a lapsed fan. 3 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:15.160 In all my years and wrestling, I've never seen anything like. 4 00:00:16.679 --> 00:00:18.120 Rop kicking. 5 00:00:21.320 --> 00:00:23.640 It's the laps Fan Man number one in the ring 6 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:24.920 begin about. 7 00:00:24.679 --> 00:00:27.120 Osada, a real king of swing when the bell. 8 00:00:27.039 --> 00:00:29.800 Goes hang and a kick like me throming in the 9 00:00:29.839 --> 00:00:33.039 corner with its rash like stick. Even Jerry King can 10 00:00:33.119 --> 00:00:35.880 say off the crown nodded in his head like Steve 11 00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:36.520 low Brown? 12 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:38.079 Would you get low down for me? 13 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:39.200 Go even high up? 14 00:00:39.399 --> 00:00:41.679 Trip you on your head? But you no cool drivel? 15 00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:45.079 You speaking monology and dragon slits fire if you more 16 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:48.320 shot than the edge retires dropping more truth than the 17 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:52.119 conn of sniper unless you would a coconut Roddy Piper out, 18 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:54.719 Jack and JP. You a j wat d drop a 19 00:00:54.759 --> 00:00:58.200 cupcakes and got the brain Bob Beans. The best podcast 20 00:00:58.280 --> 00:01:02.200 from start the close file of Your Benefit fah fickt Polls. 21 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:03.600 Welcome back. 22 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:06.319 This is part two of our conversation with Brian Penry, 23 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:09.640 who was the WWF's creative director from nineteen eighty four 24 00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:12.959 to nineteen eighty seven and created so many iconic visuals 25 00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:16.079 that we associate with the absolute boom period of the 26 00:01:16.200 --> 00:01:19.079 WWF and in the mid eighties from the WWF logo 27 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:21.079 that we all know and a door to the WrestleMania 28 00:01:21.159 --> 00:01:23.879 logo Saturday Night's Main Event logo, as you recall last 29 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:26.079 time we were with you. That's what put our scent 30 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:28.280 on the trail of Brian because he's listed in the 31 00:01:28.359 --> 00:01:31.079 credits on the very first Saturday Night's Main Event as 32 00:01:31.079 --> 00:01:33.640 the logo designer. So we simply had to find out 33 00:01:33.719 --> 00:01:36.560 if he was available, and my god, did we luck 34 00:01:36.599 --> 00:01:39.920 out because Brian has fought Boss a font of wisdom 35 00:01:40.159 --> 00:01:40.879 and memories of. 36 00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:45.599 My god, it's it's absolutely incredible. Some some stories I 37 00:01:45.719 --> 00:01:47.280 was not expecting at all. I mean not that I 38 00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:49.519 was affecting any stories, to be honest, but I mean 39 00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:54.760 just I knew we would go in certain on certain trails, 40 00:01:54.879 --> 00:01:59.719 so to speak. But man, already, I'm amazed at kind 41 00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:01.719 of the the places we've already gone to, and I 42 00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:03.920 can't sound for more such a wild place to work. 43 00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:05.799 If you do want to remind our listeners that Brian 44 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:06.920 is going to be available, if you want to go 45 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:09.800 meet him, you can check him out at gamer Con Connecticut. 46 00:02:09.800 --> 00:02:12.960 It's coming up with the Mohegan Sun Casino on Saturday 47 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:16.199 and Sunday, March fifteenth and sixteenth. Brian will be in 48 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:18.199 his own booth in the Artists Ali and he'll have 49 00:02:18.280 --> 00:02:21.360 signed to numbered prints of the WrestleMania logo available. So 50 00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:23.800 you really want to stop by and say hi to Brian, 51 00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:25.479 let him know you heard him on the podcast, and 52 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:29.400 check out his stuff. Just go online to ctgamercan dot com, 53 00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:33.120 Ctgamercon dot com for more information on the venue and 54 00:02:33.159 --> 00:02:36.520 the event, and Brian really looks forward to seeing everybody there. Brian, 55 00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:40.240 we're just getting started. It feels like after a wonderful 56 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:43.680 array of stories and personalities, welcome back to the show. 57 00:02:44.879 --> 00:02:47.599 Thanks yet, glad to be well. 58 00:02:47.639 --> 00:02:51.439 We talked about the creative director role, and I guess 59 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:52.680 I want to get a little bit more into what 60 00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:56.879 exactly the creative director does. How Titan defined the role, 61 00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:00.120 because honestly, we expected to just talk about low go 62 00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:02.599 in graphic design, but you're giving us hands that you 63 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:04.879 were involved in designing costumes for some of the wrestlers, 64 00:03:04.919 --> 00:03:08.919 involved in designing WWF's print publications. Now the magazine laid out, 65 00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:11.439 So give us an idea of what all a creative 66 00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:13.639 director does and what Vince tasked you with in these 67 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:14.520 formative days. 68 00:03:16.120 --> 00:03:21.879 Well, the term creative director originally comes from the advertising industry, 69 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:26.159 but you find it in other industries as well. And 70 00:03:26.439 --> 00:03:30.680 ad agencies originally were my background. But you know, in 71 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:36.280 a typical ad agency you have designers and copywriters who 72 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:40.360 work under copy directors and art directors, all of whom 73 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:43.520 work under the guidance and oversight of what's called a 74 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:49.120 creative director or CD. And I, you know, I experienced 75 00:03:49.159 --> 00:03:51.439 that background. I was far from a CD. I was 76 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:55.599 a working proll. I was the guy doing paste uff. 77 00:03:55.680 --> 00:03:58.120 I wasn't even a designer when I started out, But 78 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:02.639 you know, and paste up the term is run over 79 00:04:02.759 --> 00:04:07.840 now by everything being done on computer. So, but my 80 00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:10.639 role at the w w F was really all encompassing. 81 00:04:11.479 --> 00:04:17.480 There was that print design aspect of creative direction. And 82 00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:22.680 you know, there were actually billboards done at times for 83 00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:24.920 the w w F. It was interesting. They weren't they 84 00:04:24.920 --> 00:04:30.959 weren't public billboards that you would see out on the highway, 85 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:34.360 but they were. They were billboards inside of the ad agencies. 86 00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:39.240 It was really quite interesting. We just did all manner 87 00:04:39.319 --> 00:04:44.279 of kinds of things. But as you pointed out, yeah, 88 00:04:44.279 --> 00:04:47.439 I worked on the WF w w F magazine and 89 00:04:47.720 --> 00:04:51.000 on occasion I illustrated covers. You may recall it as 90 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:58.120 a cover with sergeants Slaughter and a Christmas sleigh issue. 91 00:04:58.240 --> 00:04:59.680 That was one of my illustrations. 92 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:03.720 Oh yeah, did you do the rowdy Piper Christmas cover too? 93 00:05:04.279 --> 00:05:08.199 Oh yeah, yeah, and Hogan on the sleigh with all 94 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:10.480 the baby faces behind him and the Christmas catalog. All 95 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:11.519 those are wonderful drawings. 96 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:15.920 That kind of thank you, that kind of caricature fun 97 00:05:16.639 --> 00:05:21.800 look was was my signature. And yeah, poor Roddy so 98 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:25.800 longer with us. But uh, I run into Slaughter now 99 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:31.040 and then at comic cons and so forth, and but yeah, 100 00:05:31.079 --> 00:05:35.480 I would. I would make recommendations on costumes. Uh, you're 101 00:05:35.560 --> 00:05:38.879 just in a in a in a very general stylistic way. 102 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:43.399 And then you know, sometimes I would go out and 103 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:46.279 find the actual seamstress or in the instance of the 104 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:51.120 of the guys at the Equestrian shop to create the 105 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:55.800 details of a costume and so forth, and I art 106 00:05:55.879 --> 00:05:58.600 directed photo shoots. That that was a big deal. I mean, 107 00:05:59.480 --> 00:06:02.160 the real prose would would would know how to pose 108 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:06.240 on their own and have their own very distinctive style 109 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:12.000 of of how they were posing, uh just for solo 110 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:16.360 shots or in relation to other wrestlers, for promotional shots 111 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:19.759 for you know, leading up to events and so forth. 112 00:06:21.399 --> 00:06:24.040 But it was it was really fun when when Cindy 113 00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:29.240 Wauper was managing Wendy Richter, things like that, I would 114 00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:35.560 our direct photoshoots with Cindy the guests for various WrestleManias, 115 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:41.240 including Muhammad Ali. You know, just it was fascinating that 116 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:45.199 that was a really really fun period working on that. 117 00:06:46.399 --> 00:06:51.279 All aspects like that. But just the fact that I 118 00:06:51.759 --> 00:06:55.759 do illustration and I write copy. I didn't write. I 119 00:06:55.879 --> 00:07:03.120 wrote some of the copy for the original program, the 120 00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:07.519 first WrestleMania one program, but that wasn't something that I 121 00:07:07.959 --> 00:07:11.480 did generally that the public would see. But I would 122 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:19.360 write copy for what what you would call trade brochures 123 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:26.240 that went out to other networks to potent sponsors. We 124 00:07:26.439 --> 00:07:32.560 did tremendous amounts of advertising in the trade so to speak, 125 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:39.439 to attract advertisers, television advertisers to sponsor the shows. That 126 00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:42.519 kind of thing, that sort of copywriting of was in 127 00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:42.959 charge of. 128 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:46.959 In addition to the graphic, that's a lot of responsibility. Yeah, 129 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:49.439 that's wide ranging. We'll get we'll get more into some 130 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:52.480 of your memories of some memorable w W photo shoots 131 00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:55.839 because there's a lot of stuff that came out of 132 00:07:55.879 --> 00:07:58.480 the magazine and just in pop culture in general. Is 133 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:01.160 WWF just raised its profile so much that you had 134 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:03.040 a hand in. So look forward to talking about some 135 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:05.199 of those photo shoots. But you've mentioned the WrestleMania logo 136 00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:08.240 and we can't leave that unaddressed in more detail. I mean, 137 00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:11.759 that's another one that endures to this day and JP 138 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:13.360 that WrestleMania logo is where it's at. 139 00:08:13.519 --> 00:08:17.800 Well again, the shiny metallic look, that chrome look that 140 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:23.879 you were describing regarding the original WWF logo, it's I mean, 141 00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:26.839 these are these are logos that for me as a 142 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:31.160 fan from you know, starting in the early nineties, I 143 00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:35.559 was late to that golden era, and these are logos 144 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:40.480 that I still cherish, like, this is what I kind 145 00:08:40.519 --> 00:08:43.399 of want wrestling and to be all the time. This 146 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:46.159 is what I want the logos to look like. It's 147 00:08:47.080 --> 00:08:56.039 absolutely spectacular, and you've created designs that are kind of 148 00:08:56.320 --> 00:08:59.000 symbolic for a lot of people's childhood. 149 00:09:00.279 --> 00:09:02.360 Absolutely, yeah, tell us about that Wrestlming a logo. 150 00:09:02.440 --> 00:09:05.200 Brian, you guys are making me blush a little. 151 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:11.320 It seriously is like, you know, that's that's always it. 152 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:18.679 Well, I'll tell you. I mean, designing anything is a 153 00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:22.200 is a process. And typically, if I were going to 154 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:24.600 design a logo for a company and that that is 155 00:09:25.279 --> 00:09:27.039 pretty much the kind of thing I do all the time. 156 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:31.360 I'm gonna want to sit down and understand the company 157 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:35.159 and what they're all about and every little nuance of 158 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:38.080 what they're about and try to make something that just 159 00:09:38.279 --> 00:09:41.440 at a glance, projects an image that's accurate to what 160 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:44.960 they're all about. Now, I was already in the game. 161 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:49.840 I'm behind the scenes. I knew what the product was. 162 00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:56.639 I understood the wrestling and the wrestling mentality, and you know, 163 00:09:56.799 --> 00:09:58.360 let me just talk about that for a minute, because 164 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:01.440 I think, I mean, this has been said a million 165 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:05.360 times before and depressed, but I don't think the core 166 00:10:08.080 --> 00:10:12.720 impetus that the emotion behind watching pro wrestling goes away, 167 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:15.759 and some people just never really think about it. They 168 00:10:15.879 --> 00:10:17.600 just watch it, they love it, they get a kick 169 00:10:17.639 --> 00:10:21.039 out of it. But when you think about it, it 170 00:10:21.159 --> 00:10:23.639 all starts with something like having a brother in law 171 00:10:23.720 --> 00:10:28.720 that you can't stand, like this right. The guy can't 172 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:32.080 hold a job, he's a jerk, he's not very nice 173 00:10:32.120 --> 00:10:34.559 to your sister. Basically, you want to take him out 174 00:10:34.600 --> 00:10:36.519 in an alley when no one's looking to show him, 175 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:42.120 but the consequences. And then there's the boss that is 176 00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:46.320 just obnoxious, and no matter how hard you work, that 177 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:50.679 boss will be critical and just set some sort of 178 00:10:50.840 --> 00:10:55.720 goal that's absurd that none of the employees can you know, 179 00:10:57.519 --> 00:11:01.399 rise to let alone you. So you, similarly, you want 180 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:03.240 to take your boss out. You just want to haul 181 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:07.320 off and slug the guy. Obviously there's consequences. You probably 182 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:11.080 wouldn't be working there much longer. And you know, so 183 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:16.279 what you align with the babyface, and you confect that 184 00:11:17.240 --> 00:11:21.559 bad guy brother in law, boss schmuck that cut you 185 00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:28.080 off in traffic with a heel, and you project all 186 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:31.960 your anger and your angst about these jerks in your 187 00:11:32.039 --> 00:11:35.399 life onto these jerks in the ring, and you just 188 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:38.080 sit back and have a beer and revel in the 189 00:11:38.159 --> 00:11:43.000 fact that the babyface of your choice is just taking 190 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:46.559 the varnish offs the guy that you can't stand. It's 191 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:52.000 so great. And here's the big mind blowing thing. This 192 00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:59.399 is the basis of Greek tragedies and plays. Four thousand 193 00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:04.960 years ago, guy in a toga figured this out. So 194 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:07.519 imagine Vince in a toga. 195 00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:13.679 WrestleMania nine. I think he wore a toge on TV 196 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:15.000 one time. I don't know if you know that, Brian. 197 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:20.080 It's that basic. It's that basic. And what you're really 198 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:25.799 doing is you're giving people an outlet so we're not 199 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:35.720 killing each other daily. It's brilliant. I think, you know, Oh, 200 00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:37.679 what's that Peace Prize out. 201 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:39.000 Of Nobel Peace Prize? 202 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:41.759 What is it? What do they call it? 203 00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:46.440 The the Nobel Prize, Bell, the Nobel Yeah. 204 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:49.519 They should give the Nobelt Evince. They think not anymore. 205 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:52.759 But I take your point. Maybe once upon a time, 206 00:12:53.080 --> 00:12:55.840 but the WrestleMania logo was so reflective of all we're 207 00:12:55.879 --> 00:12:56.480 talking about here. 208 00:12:57.200 --> 00:13:01.679 I digress. I apologize, but I kind of started at that, 209 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:05.440 not like, Okay, this is apex, this is the high 210 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:09.600 pinnacle of wrestling. WrestleMania is going to take all this 211 00:13:09.879 --> 00:13:12.320 energy and all this blood, sweat and tears up to 212 00:13:12.440 --> 00:13:17.399 this high, high, high plateau where this is going to 213 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:20.279 take place. So this logo really has to be something. 214 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:23.240 It has to be masculine, it has to be commanding 215 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:27.720 and exciting, and above all, it needs to be powerful. 216 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:29.840 It has to look like if it were a hammer, 217 00:13:30.039 --> 00:13:32.720 it could just take you out with one whack. So 218 00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:36.600 I kept with a metallic finish that we had with 219 00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:41.120 the WWS logo, but I stylized it a little more. 220 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:44.000 I thought, you know, it all starts with an M 221 00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:46.799 and a W. So the M and the W were gold, 222 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:49.879 and they have these breath growing out of their tops 223 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:54.279 and bottoms, so that horizontally frames the other characters in 224 00:13:54.399 --> 00:13:59.559 the words WrestleMania. So you know, the R through the 225 00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:05.039 E and the A through the A and Mania are silver, 226 00:14:05.480 --> 00:14:10.279 and so there you've got the contrast. And again, you know, 227 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:14.440 this photoshop was not even a glimmer in somebody's eye 228 00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:20.360 back at this point. And so I would pencil out 229 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:27.200 very very tightly the exact dimensions and the with height, 230 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:32.399 very precise proportions of the type characters, and the original 231 00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:36.919 this thing was maybe twenty five twenty eight inches across. 232 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:39.799 It wasn't that huge, but I mean, this has to 233 00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:44.039 work on a work on a drawing board. And I 234 00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:51.080 subcontracted an airbrush artist, phenomenally talented guy named James Kritz 235 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:56.559 and Jim no longer is with us on the planet, unfortunately. 236 00:14:56.679 --> 00:14:59.519 But this this guy allent and his little finger than 237 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:05.759 most people build up in their lifetime. I mean, he 238 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:12.279 was just gifted beyond belief. And I'm just joking a 239 00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:13.840 little bit here. I mean, he was a great guy. 240 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:15.919 But Jim would be the first to tell you that. 241 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:21.080 And there was there was a joke art director, creative director. 242 00:15:21.639 --> 00:15:24.840 You know, people that did what I did around Fairfield County, 243 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:27.720 New York, we all would get together, so I used 244 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:30.759 to blind us some associations of people that are in 245 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:34.159 the same business. And the joke was, if you want 246 00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:37.360 to know how good Jim Kritz is, just ask Jim. 247 00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:40.960 Yeah, yeah, no, he was. 248 00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:46.840 I got to tell you. If somebody was had license 249 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:50.200 to brag, it was him. He he wasn't obnoxious about it. 250 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:51.799 He said, Oh, he was the kind of guy he 251 00:15:51.799 --> 00:15:53.600 would come in your office to show you what he 252 00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:56.639 just you're gonna love this, You're gonna love this. He 253 00:15:56.759 --> 00:15:59.399 just wouldn't stop extolling his own virtues, you know that 254 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:03.039 kind of thing. But when he showed you, you just 255 00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:10.480 felt backwards because he was phenomenally talented. And but but 256 00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:13.679 here was here was the downside. And he had done 257 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:19.799 several projects building up to WrestleMania for me. But he 258 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:23.279 was that kind of guy that I learned very quickly. 259 00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:28.039 I had given him a pretty tight deadline on something. 260 00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:30.919 Granted I can't remember what it was, a week, ten 261 00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:33.600 days or something, and this wasn't something you did, did 262 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:38.879 overnight and brought back. I got what I needed two 263 00:16:38.919 --> 00:16:42.120 weeks later, and I had to reschedule the promotion that 264 00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:45.720 it was for. And you can't. You can't do that 265 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:47.600 kind of thing. You can't run a business that way. 266 00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:52.679 And I was I was very stern with him, to 267 00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:56.639 the point of just almost threatening, We're not going to 268 00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:58.799 do this again if you can't get this together. And 269 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:01.879 I didn't go to the length of saying something like that, 270 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:06.359 but I wanted to make clear that he understood. So 271 00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:08.880 I just sort of played a game I hate playing. 272 00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:14.400 I actually had a four week window to get the 273 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:19.960 This wasn't the WrestleMania logo itself, but it was the 274 00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:25.880 cover of the WrestleMania program WrestleMania one, with Hulk and 275 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:29.680 Mister T on the cover. And there's a story right 276 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:32.880 there about photographing those two. If you recall, on the 277 00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:38.640 inside back cover opposite page. On the left, there's a 278 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:41.839 photo of Hulk and mister t with the old Twin 279 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:45.839 Towers in the background. I have a story to tell 280 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:48.200 about that. Just taking that photo was a feat. But 281 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:56.359 the cover of that program was was all important, that 282 00:17:56.599 --> 00:17:58.400 that was a big deal it was. It was also 283 00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:02.119 used promotion prior to the show, so it wasn't just 284 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:07.599 the cover of the program. And I had I had 285 00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:11.680 exactly four weeks in actuality, but I told them I 286 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:15.279 needed it in two, and I said, don't screw me 287 00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:18.759 around now. I mean, there's a lot of machine machinery 288 00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:24.279 and wheels turning towards this event. It's mind bogglingly complicated, 289 00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:29.640 and you cannot do what you did before and another gig. 290 00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:33.400 I need this art in hand because then I'm going 291 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:37.400 to do some drybrush detailing on it, and it needs 292 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:40.000 to be scanned, and it needs to be printed along 293 00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:43.759 with this program. By the hundreds of thousands that we reprinted, 294 00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:48.759 way more programs than just for the event. They were 295 00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:51.400 they were sold as keepsakes and so on and so 296 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:57.039 forth after the fact. So what happens at the third week. 297 00:18:57.160 --> 00:19:01.960 I'm biting my nails. I'm freaking out I'm like, what's 298 00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:04.279 going on. I'm working on it. I'm working at it, 299 00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:11.640 I kid you, not two days before my drop dead. 300 00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:15.039 And that's if nothing else goes wrong and the printing 301 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:17.920 plant doesn't burn down while the thing's on press or whatever. 302 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:23.559 I just I think I started going prematurely gray when 303 00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:26.799 I was thirty nine. That would have been that that time, 304 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:29.319 thereabouts thirty eight, something like that. I'm like this, this 305 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:34.000 guy's killing me. And the trouble is he had he 306 00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:38.599 had done some crazy gigs. He painted murals inside the 307 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:45.279 jets of Saudi Arabian chikhs. They would they would contract 308 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:49.240 him to do these these Greckel Roman murals on the 309 00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:53.759 inside private jets and these salons, and he'd work on 310 00:19:53.880 --> 00:19:56.759 these for like weeks on end months whatever. And if 311 00:19:56.799 --> 00:19:59.440 the guy had to go somewhere, he use another jet 312 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:02.319 in the fan or whatever. You know, no problem. I'm 313 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:04.480 sure you guys do the same thing like I do. 314 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:07.960 You know, if someone's painting my jet, I'll use my brother. 315 00:20:09.400 --> 00:20:13.119 But that's the world he lived in, and he had 316 00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:16.920 these almost endless deadline things where he just took a 317 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:20.440 sweet time, and so he wasn't very good about deadlines. 318 00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:23.480 But The illustration was just an utter and complete knockout. 319 00:20:23.559 --> 00:20:29.240 You may recall it. I have all of one copy 320 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:33.960 in my own personal files. They're hard to come by, 321 00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:38.240 but I'll tell you, he just he just took it 322 00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:42.599 right down to the bare bones. And I'd done a 323 00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:45.119 lot with him. I used him for one project after 324 00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:48.720 that where I didn't have a very tight deadline. But 325 00:20:49.880 --> 00:20:52.680 it just drove me crazy. He was so good, but 326 00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:55.440 and I appreciate all the time and effort he put 327 00:20:55.480 --> 00:20:57.640 into it, but it was it made the thing so 328 00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:00.640 damn stressful. It was. It was really really tough. 329 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:02.559 Yeah, that's the unique thing of working in a creative 330 00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:05.119 capacity at a company like this. There's this like this 331 00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:08.119 day where everything has to be on the rails, and 332 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:10.119 this is their first kind of venture with this kind 333 00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:13.240 of scale, so everyone's it doesn't necessarily have the reps 334 00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:16.039 in now. Are you describing I'm trying to picture this brighter? 335 00:21:16.039 --> 00:21:18.920 Are you describing the picture of Hulk and Mister t 336 00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:21.359 that's on the cover of the Coliseum video release of 337 00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:23.839 WRESTLINGIA one where they sort of look I don't know, 338 00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:26.880 how would you describe a JP kind of like bronzed. 339 00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:33.440 Yeah, it looks almost almost like a drawing Photographyeah right. 340 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:36.359 Yeah, no, no it's not a photograph. 341 00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:39.720 Oh I assumed it was justled over or something. 342 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:45.880 Yeah, no, that's krits Is that good? That? Wow? That 343 00:21:46.039 --> 00:21:50.279 was airbrush. That was done airbrush. And then I did 344 00:21:50.359 --> 00:21:55.240 these minute little yeah, pitpoint highlights on top of on 345 00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:59.440 top of his highlights to just contrast it even brighter 346 00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:03.960 before we scanned it. And and that that also has 347 00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:06.960 the ring ropes or red white and blue with sort 348 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:11.640 of an electrical this thing going down the rope. Yeah. Yeah, 349 00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:15.880 we're talking about the same illustration. Yeah, that that was 350 00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:20.319 There were a few sleepless lights lights there where I 351 00:22:20.680 --> 00:22:23.880 was having bad dreams about running down the streets, you know, 352 00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:28.920 naked being chased by rabbit dot Vincent sicked on me 353 00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:34.720 because I blew the deadline. That was creepy and just quickly. 354 00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:36.519 You know what I love about this this image because 355 00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:39.920 it's so they've never really tried, and maybe because it's 356 00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:42.039 just the remarkable talents it took to pull it off 357 00:22:42.599 --> 00:22:44.880 to present their wrestlers like this again, you know, usually 358 00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:49.160 the way the rest is are presented, they they really pop, 359 00:22:49.240 --> 00:22:51.839 their eyes are wide, they're sort of they're trying to 360 00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:54.519 basically make these people look like cartoon characters. This is 361 00:22:54.599 --> 00:22:57.240 like kind of more of a class presentation. Like I 362 00:22:57.359 --> 00:22:59.880 was always taken with how Holt's hand is like present 363 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:02.440 nting mister T. You know, he's not pointing at you, 364 00:23:02.839 --> 00:23:05.640 he's not menacing and growling and snarling. I thought that 365 00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:09.480 was such a cool, kind of counterintuitive way to present 366 00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:12.240 them for this, this this debut of WrestleMania. 367 00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:18.279 Well, yeah, and and and and and in fairness to Jim, 368 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:21.519 you know, bless his heart. He he drove me a 369 00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:23.960 little crazy, but he also made me pretty happy. He 370 00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:29.480 made me very proud. His work was just extraordinary. He 371 00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:35.000 is to be honored, you know, for what the class 372 00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:38.240 and the and the pomp and circumstance he bought to 373 00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:42.400 the whole thing. He was a hell of an illustrator. Yeah, 374 00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:44.880 he did rob me of some sleep. 375 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:49.480 But fair absolutely this is Please go ahead. 376 00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:54.720 I'll tell you the interesting thing about that photo opposite 377 00:23:54.799 --> 00:24:02.079 the inside back cover. Vince wanted to get some sort 378 00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:06.400 of grand image with New York City in the background, right, 379 00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:11.839 And I mean there's just no no planning here, none, 380 00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:18.720 And it's it's crazy scheduling because you know, hulks in demand. 381 00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:22.720 He's wherever he is for for shows. He's just living 382 00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:25.160 in and out of a car and a plane, going 383 00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:27.799 between point A and point B all over the place. 384 00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:31.359 Same thing with mister t He you know, this was 385 00:24:31.480 --> 00:24:36.359 in the A Team era, and he's he was, you know, 386 00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:40.839 a big deal in his own right. And he was 387 00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:43.480 actually a very nice guy. You know, every time you 388 00:24:43.559 --> 00:24:47.720 see him portrayed in character, he's he's this tough dude 389 00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:51.519 he was. I mean, yeah, he's a formidable character when 390 00:24:51.559 --> 00:24:53.200 you see him face to face. But he was just, 391 00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:57.279 you know, very polite and mild mattered when you you know, 392 00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:01.480 met him in person, and he's he's not in character. 393 00:25:02.200 --> 00:25:08.200 And I think it's like a quarter to four, four 394 00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:12.599 point thirty something like that. In an afternoon, Vince calls 395 00:25:12.680 --> 00:25:17.680 down to my office says, I got Taylor. He's gonna shoot. 396 00:25:17.799 --> 00:25:20.240 I want you to our direct. We're going into the city. 397 00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:23.400 I got a hunk, I got no time. They just 398 00:25:24.319 --> 00:25:25.720 had to move heavy the nurse to get him in 399 00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:28.759 the same place at the same time. We're gonna meet 400 00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:30.839 down at the Empire State Building and shoot on top 401 00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:36.079