1
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:05,599
Speaker 1: It's the Lapsed Fan Wrestling podcast with Jack and carn

2
00:00:05,679 --> 00:00:10,720
S e O and JP sorrows He's a lapsed fan.

3
00:00:10,919 --> 00:00:15,160
In all my years and wrestling, I've never seen anything like.

4
00:00:16,679 --> 00:00:18,120
Speaker 2: Rop kicking.

5
00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,640
Speaker 3: It's the laps Fan Man number one in the ring

6
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:24,920
begin about.

7
00:00:24,679 --> 00:00:27,120
Speaker 4: Osada, a real king of swing when the bell.

8
00:00:27,039 --> 00:00:29,800
Speaker 3: Goes hang and a kick like me throming in the

9
00:00:29,839 --> 00:00:33,039
corner with its rash like stick. Even Jerry King can

10
00:00:33,119 --> 00:00:35,880
say off the crown nodded in his head like Steve

11
00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:36,520
low Brown?

12
00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:38,079
Speaker 4: Would you get low down for me?

13
00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:39,200
Speaker 3: Go even high up?

14
00:00:39,399 --> 00:00:41,679
Speaker 4: Trip you on your head? But you no cool drivel?

15
00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,079
Speaker 3: You speaking monology and dragon slits fire if you more

16
00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,320
shot than the edge retires dropping more truth than the

17
00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,119
conn of sniper unless you would a coconut Roddy Piper out,

18
00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,719
Jack and JP. You a j wat d drop a

19
00:00:54,759 --> 00:00:58,200
cupcakes and got the brain Bob Beans. The best podcast

20
00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:02,200
from start the close file of Your Benefit fah fickt Polls.

21
00:01:03,079 --> 00:01:03,600
Speaker 2: Welcome back.

22
00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,319
Speaker 5: This is part two of our conversation with Brian Penry,

23
00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,640
who was the WWF's creative director from nineteen eighty four

24
00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,959
to nineteen eighty seven and created so many iconic visuals

25
00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,079
that we associate with the absolute boom period of the

26
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,079
WWF and in the mid eighties from the WWF logo

27
00:01:19,159 --> 00:01:21,079
that we all know and a door to the WrestleMania

28
00:01:21,159 --> 00:01:23,879
logo Saturday Night's Main Event logo, as you recall last

29
00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,079
time we were with you. That's what put our scent

30
00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,280
on the trail of Brian because he's listed in the

31
00:01:28,359 --> 00:01:31,079
credits on the very first Saturday Night's Main Event as

32
00:01:31,079 --> 00:01:33,640
the logo designer. So we simply had to find out

33
00:01:33,719 --> 00:01:36,560
if he was available, and my god, did we luck

34
00:01:36,599 --> 00:01:39,920
out because Brian has fought Boss a font of wisdom

35
00:01:40,159 --> 00:01:40,879
and memories of.

36
00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:45,599
Speaker 6: My god, it's it's absolutely incredible. Some some stories I

37
00:01:45,719 --> 00:01:47,280
was not expecting at all. I mean not that I

38
00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,519
was affecting any stories, to be honest, but I mean

39
00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:54,760
just I knew we would go in certain on certain trails,

40
00:01:54,879 --> 00:01:59,719
so to speak. But man, already, I'm amazed at kind

41
00:01:59,719 --> 00:02:01,719
of the the places we've already gone to, and I

42
00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:03,920
can't sound for more such a wild place to work.

43
00:02:03,959 --> 00:02:05,799
If you do want to remind our listeners that Brian

44
00:02:05,879 --> 00:02:06,920
is going to be available, if you want to go

45
00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,800
meet him, you can check him out at gamer Con Connecticut.

46
00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,960
It's coming up with the Mohegan Sun Casino on Saturday

47
00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,199
and Sunday, March fifteenth and sixteenth. Brian will be in

48
00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,199
his own booth in the Artists Ali and he'll have

49
00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,360
signed to numbered prints of the WrestleMania logo available. So

50
00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:23,800
you really want to stop by and say hi to Brian,

51
00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,479
let him know you heard him on the podcast, and

52
00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,400
check out his stuff. Just go online to ctgamercan dot com,

53
00:02:29,599 --> 00:02:33,120
Ctgamercon dot com for more information on the venue and

54
00:02:33,159 --> 00:02:36,520
the event, and Brian really looks forward to seeing everybody there. Brian,

55
00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,240
we're just getting started. It feels like after a wonderful

56
00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,680
array of stories and personalities, welcome back to the show.

57
00:02:44,879 --> 00:02:47,599
Speaker 4: Thanks yet, glad to be well.

58
00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,439
Speaker 5: We talked about the creative director role, and I guess

59
00:02:51,439 --> 00:02:52,680
I want to get a little bit more into what

60
00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,879
exactly the creative director does. How Titan defined the role,

61
00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,120
because honestly, we expected to just talk about low go

62
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,599
in graphic design, but you're giving us hands that you

63
00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:04,879
were involved in designing costumes for some of the wrestlers,

64
00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,919
involved in designing WWF's print publications. Now the magazine laid out,

65
00:03:09,039 --> 00:03:11,439
So give us an idea of what all a creative

66
00:03:11,439 --> 00:03:13,639
director does and what Vince tasked you with in these

67
00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:14,520
formative days.

68
00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:21,879
Speaker 4: Well, the term creative director originally comes from the advertising industry,

69
00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,159
but you find it in other industries as well. And

70
00:03:26,439 --> 00:03:30,680
ad agencies originally were my background. But you know, in

71
00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:36,280
a typical ad agency you have designers and copywriters who

72
00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:40,360
work under copy directors and art directors, all of whom

73
00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,520
work under the guidance and oversight of what's called a

74
00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:49,120
creative director or CD. And I, you know, I experienced

75
00:03:49,159 --> 00:03:51,439
that background. I was far from a CD. I was

76
00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,599
a working proll. I was the guy doing paste uff.

77
00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,120
I wasn't even a designer when I started out, But

78
00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,639
you know, and paste up the term is run over

79
00:04:02,759 --> 00:04:07,840
now by everything being done on computer. So, but my

80
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,639
role at the w w F was really all encompassing.

81
00:04:11,479 --> 00:04:17,480
There was that print design aspect of creative direction. And

82
00:04:18,319 --> 00:04:22,680
you know, there were actually billboards done at times for

83
00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:24,920
the w w F. It was interesting. They weren't they

84
00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:30,959
weren't public billboards that you would see out on the highway,

85
00:04:31,079 --> 00:04:34,360
but they were. They were billboards inside of the ad agencies.

86
00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:39,240
It was really quite interesting. We just did all manner

87
00:04:39,319 --> 00:04:44,279
of kinds of things. But as you pointed out, yeah,

88
00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,439
I worked on the WF w w F magazine and

89
00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,000
on occasion I illustrated covers. You may recall it as

90
00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:58,120
a cover with sergeants Slaughter and a Christmas sleigh issue.

91
00:04:58,240 --> 00:04:59,680
That was one of my illustrations.

92
00:05:00,079 --> 00:05:03,720
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, did you do the rowdy Piper Christmas cover too?

93
00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:08,199
Oh yeah, yeah, and Hogan on the sleigh with all

94
00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,480
the baby faces behind him and the Christmas catalog. All

95
00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:11,519
those are wonderful drawings.

96
00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,920
Speaker 4: That kind of thank you, that kind of caricature fun

97
00:05:16,639 --> 00:05:21,800
look was was my signature. And yeah, poor Roddy so

98
00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,800
longer with us. But uh, I run into Slaughter now

99
00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:31,040
and then at comic cons and so forth, and but yeah,

100
00:05:31,079 --> 00:05:35,480
I would. I would make recommendations on costumes. Uh, you're

101
00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,879
just in a in a in a very general stylistic way.

102
00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:43,399
And then you know, sometimes I would go out and

103
00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,279
find the actual seamstress or in the instance of the

104
00:05:46,439 --> 00:05:51,120
of the guys at the Equestrian shop to create the

105
00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,800
details of a costume and so forth, and I art

106
00:05:55,879 --> 00:05:58,600
directed photo shoots. That that was a big deal. I mean,

107
00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,160
the real prose would would would know how to pose

108
00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,240
on their own and have their own very distinctive style

109
00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:12,000
of of how they were posing, uh just for solo

110
00:06:12,079 --> 00:06:16,360
shots or in relation to other wrestlers, for promotional shots

111
00:06:16,879 --> 00:06:19,759
for you know, leading up to events and so forth.

112
00:06:21,399 --> 00:06:24,040
But it was it was really fun when when Cindy

113
00:06:24,079 --> 00:06:29,240
Wauper was managing Wendy Richter, things like that, I would

114
00:06:29,639 --> 00:06:35,560
our direct photoshoots with Cindy the guests for various WrestleManias,

115
00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:41,240
including Muhammad Ali. You know, just it was fascinating that

116
00:06:41,399 --> 00:06:45,199
that was a really really fun period working on that.

117
00:06:46,399 --> 00:06:51,279
All aspects like that. But just the fact that I

118
00:06:51,759 --> 00:06:55,759
do illustration and I write copy. I didn't write. I

119
00:06:55,879 --> 00:07:03,120
wrote some of the copy for the original program, the

120
00:07:03,199 --> 00:07:07,519
first WrestleMania one program, but that wasn't something that I

121
00:07:07,959 --> 00:07:11,480
did generally that the public would see. But I would

122
00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:19,360
write copy for what what you would call trade brochures

123
00:07:20,079 --> 00:07:26,240
that went out to other networks to potent sponsors. We

124
00:07:26,439 --> 00:07:32,560
did tremendous amounts of advertising in the trade so to speak,

125
00:07:33,199 --> 00:07:39,439
to attract advertisers, television advertisers to sponsor the shows. That

126
00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,519
kind of thing, that sort of copywriting of was in

127
00:07:42,639 --> 00:07:42,959
charge of.

128
00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,959
Speaker 5: In addition to the graphic, that's a lot of responsibility. Yeah,

129
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:49,439
that's wide ranging. We'll get we'll get more into some

130
00:07:49,519 --> 00:07:52,480
of your memories of some memorable w W photo shoots

131
00:07:52,519 --> 00:07:55,839
because there's a lot of stuff that came out of

132
00:07:55,879 --> 00:07:58,480
the magazine and just in pop culture in general. Is

133
00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,160
WWF just raised its profile so much that you had

134
00:08:01,199 --> 00:08:03,040
a hand in. So look forward to talking about some

135
00:08:03,079 --> 00:08:05,199
of those photo shoots. But you've mentioned the WrestleMania logo

136
00:08:05,279 --> 00:08:08,240
and we can't leave that unaddressed in more detail. I mean,

137
00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,759
that's another one that endures to this day and JP

138
00:08:11,879 --> 00:08:13,360
that WrestleMania logo is where it's at.

139
00:08:13,519 --> 00:08:17,800
Speaker 6: Well again, the shiny metallic look, that chrome look that

140
00:08:17,839 --> 00:08:23,879
you were describing regarding the original WWF logo, it's I mean,

141
00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,839
these are these are logos that for me as a

142
00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:31,160
fan from you know, starting in the early nineties, I

143
00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,559
was late to that golden era, and these are logos

144
00:08:35,639 --> 00:08:40,480
that I still cherish, like, this is what I kind

145
00:08:40,519 --> 00:08:43,399
of want wrestling and to be all the time. This

146
00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,159
is what I want the logos to look like. It's

147
00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:56,039
absolutely spectacular, and you've created designs that are kind of

148
00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,000
symbolic for a lot of people's childhood.

149
00:09:00,279 --> 00:09:02,360
Speaker 5: Absolutely, yeah, tell us about that Wrestlming a logo.

150
00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,200
Speaker 4: Brian, you guys are making me blush a little.

151
00:09:07,039 --> 00:09:11,320
Speaker 2: It seriously is like, you know, that's that's always it.

152
00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:18,679
Speaker 4: Well, I'll tell you. I mean, designing anything is a

153
00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,200
is a process. And typically, if I were going to

154
00:09:22,279 --> 00:09:24,600
design a logo for a company and that that is

155
00:09:25,279 --> 00:09:27,039
pretty much the kind of thing I do all the time.

156
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,360
I'm gonna want to sit down and understand the company

157
00:09:31,399 --> 00:09:35,159
and what they're all about and every little nuance of

158
00:09:35,279 --> 00:09:38,080
what they're about and try to make something that just

159
00:09:38,279 --> 00:09:41,440
at a glance, projects an image that's accurate to what

160
00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,960
they're all about. Now, I was already in the game.

161
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:49,840
I'm behind the scenes. I knew what the product was.

162
00:09:49,919 --> 00:09:56,639
I understood the wrestling and the wrestling mentality, and you know,

163
00:09:56,799 --> 00:09:58,360
let me just talk about that for a minute, because

164
00:09:58,399 --> 00:10:01,440
I think, I mean, this has been said a million

165
00:10:01,519 --> 00:10:05,360
times before and depressed, but I don't think the core

166
00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:12,720
impetus that the emotion behind watching pro wrestling goes away,

167
00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:15,759
and some people just never really think about it. They

168
00:10:15,879 --> 00:10:17,600
just watch it, they love it, they get a kick

169
00:10:17,639 --> 00:10:21,039
out of it. But when you think about it, it

170
00:10:21,159 --> 00:10:23,639
all starts with something like having a brother in law

171
00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:28,720
that you can't stand, like this right. The guy can't

172
00:10:28,759 --> 00:10:32,080
hold a job, he's a jerk, he's not very nice

173
00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,559
to your sister. Basically, you want to take him out

174
00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,519
in an alley when no one's looking to show him,

175
00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:42,120
but the consequences. And then there's the boss that is

176
00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:46,320
just obnoxious, and no matter how hard you work, that

177
00:10:46,519 --> 00:10:50,679
boss will be critical and just set some sort of

178
00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:55,720
goal that's absurd that none of the employees can you know,

179
00:10:57,519 --> 00:11:01,399
rise to let alone you. So you, similarly, you want

180
00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:03,240
to take your boss out. You just want to haul

181
00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,320
off and slug the guy. Obviously there's consequences. You probably

182
00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,080
wouldn't be working there much longer. And you know, so

183
00:11:11,279 --> 00:11:16,279
what you align with the babyface, and you confect that

184
00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:21,559
bad guy brother in law, boss schmuck that cut you

185
00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:28,080
off in traffic with a heel, and you project all

186
00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,960
your anger and your angst about these jerks in your

187
00:11:32,039 --> 00:11:35,399
life onto these jerks in the ring, and you just

188
00:11:35,519 --> 00:11:38,080
sit back and have a beer and revel in the

189
00:11:38,159 --> 00:11:43,000
fact that the babyface of your choice is just taking

190
00:11:43,039 --> 00:11:46,559
the varnish offs the guy that you can't stand. It's

191
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:52,000
so great. And here's the big mind blowing thing. This

192
00:11:52,799 --> 00:11:59,399
is the basis of Greek tragedies and plays. Four thousand

193
00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:04,960
years ago, guy in a toga figured this out. So

194
00:12:05,519 --> 00:12:07,519
imagine Vince in a toga.

195
00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,679
Speaker 5: WrestleMania nine. I think he wore a toge on TV

196
00:12:13,759 --> 00:12:15,000
one time. I don't know if you know that, Brian.

197
00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:20,080
Speaker 4: It's that basic. It's that basic. And what you're really

198
00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:25,799
doing is you're giving people an outlet so we're not

199
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:35,720
killing each other daily. It's brilliant. I think, you know, Oh,

200
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:37,679
what's that Peace Prize out.

201
00:12:37,519 --> 00:12:39,000
Speaker 5: Of Nobel Peace Prize?

202
00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:41,759
Speaker 4: What is it? What do they call it?

203
00:12:41,879 --> 00:12:46,440
Speaker 5: The the Nobel Prize, Bell, the Nobel Yeah.

204
00:12:46,399 --> 00:12:49,519
Speaker 4: They should give the Nobelt Evince. They think not anymore.

205
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,759
Speaker 5: But I take your point. Maybe once upon a time,

206
00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,840
but the WrestleMania logo was so reflective of all we're

207
00:12:55,879 --> 00:12:56,480
talking about here.

208
00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:01,679
Speaker 4: I digress. I apologize, but I kind of started at that,

209
00:13:01,919 --> 00:13:05,440
not like, Okay, this is apex, this is the high

210
00:13:05,799 --> 00:13:09,600
pinnacle of wrestling. WrestleMania is going to take all this

211
00:13:09,879 --> 00:13:12,320
energy and all this blood, sweat and tears up to

212
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:17,399
this high, high, high plateau where this is going to

213
00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,279
take place. So this logo really has to be something.

214
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,240
It has to be masculine, it has to be commanding

215
00:13:23,799 --> 00:13:27,720
and exciting, and above all, it needs to be powerful.

216
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:29,840
It has to look like if it were a hammer,

217
00:13:30,039 --> 00:13:32,720
it could just take you out with one whack. So

218
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,600
I kept with a metallic finish that we had with

219
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:41,120
the WWS logo, but I stylized it a little more.

220
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,000
I thought, you know, it all starts with an M

221
00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,799
and a W. So the M and the W were gold,

222
00:13:47,399 --> 00:13:49,879
and they have these breath growing out of their tops

223
00:13:49,919 --> 00:13:54,279
and bottoms, so that horizontally frames the other characters in

224
00:13:54,399 --> 00:13:59,559
the words WrestleMania. So you know, the R through the

225
00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:05,039
E and the A through the A and Mania are silver,

226
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:10,279
and so there you've got the contrast. And again, you know,

227
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:14,440
this photoshop was not even a glimmer in somebody's eye

228
00:14:14,519 --> 00:14:20,360
back at this point. And so I would pencil out

229
00:14:20,799 --> 00:14:27,200
very very tightly the exact dimensions and the with height,

230
00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:32,399
very precise proportions of the type characters, and the original

231
00:14:32,519 --> 00:14:36,919
this thing was maybe twenty five twenty eight inches across.

232
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:39,799
It wasn't that huge, but I mean, this has to

233
00:14:39,879 --> 00:14:44,039
work on a work on a drawing board. And I

234
00:14:44,399 --> 00:14:51,080
subcontracted an airbrush artist, phenomenally talented guy named James Kritz

235
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:56,559
and Jim no longer is with us on the planet, unfortunately.

236
00:14:56,679 --> 00:14:59,519
But this this guy allent and his little finger than

237
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:05,759
most people build up in their lifetime. I mean, he

238
00:15:05,919 --> 00:15:12,279
was just gifted beyond belief. And I'm just joking a

239
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:13,840
little bit here. I mean, he was a great guy.

240
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:15,919
But Jim would be the first to tell you that.

241
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:21,080
And there was there was a joke art director, creative director.

242
00:15:21,639 --> 00:15:24,840
You know, people that did what I did around Fairfield County,

243
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,720
New York, we all would get together, so I used

244
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,759
to blind us some associations of people that are in

245
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,159
the same business. And the joke was, if you want

246
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,360
to know how good Jim Kritz is, just ask Jim.

247
00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, no, he was.

248
00:15:41,679 --> 00:15:46,840
Speaker 4: I got to tell you. If somebody was had license

249
00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,200
to brag, it was him. He he wasn't obnoxious about it.

250
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:51,799
He said, Oh, he was the kind of guy he

251
00:15:51,799 --> 00:15:53,600
would come in your office to show you what he

252
00:15:53,879 --> 00:15:56,639
just you're gonna love this, You're gonna love this. He

253
00:15:56,759 --> 00:15:59,399
just wouldn't stop extolling his own virtues, you know that

254
00:15:59,559 --> 00:16:03,039
kind of thing. But when he showed you, you just

255
00:16:03,559 --> 00:16:10,480
felt backwards because he was phenomenally talented. And but but

256
00:16:10,679 --> 00:16:13,679
here was here was the downside. And he had done

257
00:16:14,399 --> 00:16:19,799
several projects building up to WrestleMania for me. But he

258
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,279
was that kind of guy that I learned very quickly.

259
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,039
I had given him a pretty tight deadline on something.

260
00:16:28,279 --> 00:16:30,919
Granted I can't remember what it was, a week, ten

261
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,600
days or something, and this wasn't something you did, did

262
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:38,879
overnight and brought back. I got what I needed two

263
00:16:38,919 --> 00:16:42,120
weeks later, and I had to reschedule the promotion that

264
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,720
it was for. And you can't. You can't do that

265
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:47,600
kind of thing. You can't run a business that way.

266
00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:52,679
And I was I was very stern with him, to

267
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,639
the point of just almost threatening, We're not going to

268
00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,799
do this again if you can't get this together. And

269
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,879
I didn't go to the length of saying something like that,

270
00:17:02,559 --> 00:17:06,359
but I wanted to make clear that he understood. So

271
00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:08,880
I just sort of played a game I hate playing.

272
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:14,400
I actually had a four week window to get the

273
00:17:15,279 --> 00:17:19,960
This wasn't the WrestleMania logo itself, but it was the

274
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:25,880
cover of the WrestleMania program WrestleMania one, with Hulk and

275
00:17:26,039 --> 00:17:29,680
Mister T on the cover. And there's a story right

276
00:17:29,759 --> 00:17:32,880
there about photographing those two. If you recall, on the

277
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:38,640
inside back cover opposite page. On the left, there's a

278
00:17:38,759 --> 00:17:41,839
photo of Hulk and mister t with the old Twin

279
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,839
Towers in the background. I have a story to tell

280
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,200
about that. Just taking that photo was a feat. But

281
00:17:51,039 --> 00:17:56,359
the cover of that program was was all important, that

282
00:17:56,599 --> 00:17:58,400
that was a big deal it was. It was also

283
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:02,119
used promotion prior to the show, so it wasn't just

284
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:07,599
the cover of the program. And I had I had

285
00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,680
exactly four weeks in actuality, but I told them I

286
00:18:11,759 --> 00:18:15,279
needed it in two, and I said, don't screw me

287
00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,759
around now. I mean, there's a lot of machine machinery

288
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:24,279
and wheels turning towards this event. It's mind bogglingly complicated,

289
00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:29,640
and you cannot do what you did before and another gig.

290
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,400
I need this art in hand because then I'm going

291
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:37,400
to do some drybrush detailing on it, and it needs

292
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,000
to be scanned, and it needs to be printed along

293
00:18:40,079 --> 00:18:43,759
with this program. By the hundreds of thousands that we reprinted,

294
00:18:43,799 --> 00:18:48,759
way more programs than just for the event. They were

295
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,400
they were sold as keepsakes and so on and so

296
00:18:51,599 --> 00:18:57,039
forth after the fact. So what happens at the third week.

297
00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,960
I'm biting my nails. I'm freaking out I'm like, what's

298
00:19:02,039 --> 00:19:04,279
going on. I'm working on it. I'm working at it,

299
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,640
I kid you, not two days before my drop dead.

300
00:19:11,759 --> 00:19:15,039
And that's if nothing else goes wrong and the printing

301
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,920
plant doesn't burn down while the thing's on press or whatever.

302
00:19:18,039 --> 00:19:23,559
I just I think I started going prematurely gray when

303
00:19:23,599 --> 00:19:26,799
I was thirty nine. That would have been that that time,

304
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,319
thereabouts thirty eight, something like that. I'm like this, this

305
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:34,000
guy's killing me. And the trouble is he had he

306
00:19:34,079 --> 00:19:38,599
had done some crazy gigs. He painted murals inside the

307
00:19:38,799 --> 00:19:45,279
jets of Saudi Arabian chikhs. They would they would contract

308
00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,240
him to do these these Greckel Roman murals on the

309
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:53,759
inside private jets and these salons, and he'd work on

310
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,759
these for like weeks on end months whatever. And if

311
00:19:56,799 --> 00:19:59,440
the guy had to go somewhere, he use another jet

312
00:19:59,519 --> 00:20:02,319
in the fan or whatever. You know, no problem. I'm

313
00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:04,480
sure you guys do the same thing like I do.

314
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,960
You know, if someone's painting my jet, I'll use my brother.

315
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,119
But that's the world he lived in, and he had

316
00:20:13,279 --> 00:20:16,920
these almost endless deadline things where he just took a

317
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,440
sweet time, and so he wasn't very good about deadlines.

318
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,480
But The illustration was just an utter and complete knockout.

319
00:20:23,559 --> 00:20:29,240
You may recall it. I have all of one copy

320
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,960
in my own personal files. They're hard to come by,

321
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:38,240
but I'll tell you, he just he just took it

322
00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:42,599
right down to the bare bones. And I'd done a

323
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,119
lot with him. I used him for one project after

324
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,720
that where I didn't have a very tight deadline. But

325
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,680
it just drove me crazy. He was so good, but

326
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,440
and I appreciate all the time and effort he put

327
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,640
into it, but it was it made the thing so

328
00:20:57,839 --> 00:21:00,640
damn stressful. It was. It was really really tough.

329
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:02,559
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's the unique thing of working in a creative

330
00:21:02,599 --> 00:21:05,119
capacity at a company like this. There's this like this

331
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,119
day where everything has to be on the rails, and

332
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,119
this is their first kind of venture with this kind

333
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,240
of scale, so everyone's it doesn't necessarily have the reps

334
00:21:13,279 --> 00:21:16,039
in now. Are you describing I'm trying to picture this brighter?

335
00:21:16,039 --> 00:21:18,920
Are you describing the picture of Hulk and Mister t

336
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,359
that's on the cover of the Coliseum video release of

337
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,839
WRESTLINGIA one where they sort of look I don't know,

338
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,880
how would you describe a JP kind of like bronzed.

339
00:21:27,039 --> 00:21:33,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, it looks almost almost like a drawing Photographyeah right.

340
00:21:34,559 --> 00:21:36,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, no it's not a photograph.

341
00:21:36,799 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 5: Oh I assumed it was justled over or something.

342
00:21:39,839 --> 00:21:45,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that's krits Is that good? That? Wow? That

343
00:21:46,039 --> 00:21:50,279
was airbrush. That was done airbrush. And then I did

344
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:55,240
these minute little yeah, pitpoint highlights on top of on

345
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,440
top of his highlights to just contrast it even brighter

346
00:21:59,599 --> 00:22:03,960
before we scanned it. And and that that also has

347
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:06,960
the ring ropes or red white and blue with sort

348
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,640
of an electrical this thing going down the rope. Yeah. Yeah,

349
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,880
we're talking about the same illustration. Yeah, that that was

350
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,319
There were a few sleepless lights lights there where I

351
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,880
was having bad dreams about running down the streets, you know,

352
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,920
naked being chased by rabbit dot Vincent sicked on me

353
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:34,720
because I blew the deadline. That was creepy and just quickly.

354
00:22:34,759 --> 00:22:36,519
Speaker 5: You know what I love about this this image because

355
00:22:36,559 --> 00:22:39,920
it's so they've never really tried, and maybe because it's

356
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,039
just the remarkable talents it took to pull it off

357
00:22:42,599 --> 00:22:44,880
to present their wrestlers like this again, you know, usually

358
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,160
the way the rest is are presented, they they really pop,

359
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,839
their eyes are wide, they're sort of they're trying to

360
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,519
basically make these people look like cartoon characters. This is

361
00:22:54,599 --> 00:22:57,240
like kind of more of a class presentation. Like I

362
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,880
was always taken with how Holt's hand is like present

363
00:23:00,039 --> 00:23:02,440
nting mister T. You know, he's not pointing at you,

364
00:23:02,839 --> 00:23:05,640
he's not menacing and growling and snarling. I thought that

365
00:23:05,759 --> 00:23:09,480
was such a cool, kind of counterintuitive way to present

366
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,240
them for this, this this debut of WrestleMania.

367
00:23:13,559 --> 00:23:18,279
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, and and and and and in fairness to Jim,

368
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,519
you know, bless his heart. He he drove me a

369
00:23:21,559 --> 00:23:23,960
little crazy, but he also made me pretty happy. He

370
00:23:24,079 --> 00:23:29,480
made me very proud. His work was just extraordinary. He

371
00:23:30,319 --> 00:23:35,000
is to be honored, you know, for what the class

372
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,240
and the and the pomp and circumstance he bought to

373
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:42,400
the whole thing. He was a hell of an illustrator. Yeah,

374
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:44,880
he did rob me of some sleep.

375
00:23:44,759 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 5: But fair absolutely this is Please go ahead.

376
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 4: I'll tell you the interesting thing about that photo opposite

377
00:23:54,799 --> 00:24:02,079
the inside back cover. Vince wanted to get some sort

378
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:06,400
of grand image with New York City in the background, right,

379
00:24:07,759 --> 00:24:11,839
And I mean there's just no no planning here, none,

380
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:18,720
And it's it's crazy scheduling because you know, hulks in demand.

381
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,720
He's wherever he is for for shows. He's just living

382
00:24:22,759 --> 00:24:25,160
in and out of a car and a plane, going

383
00:24:25,279 --> 00:24:27,799
between point A and point B all over the place.

384
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,359
Same thing with mister t He you know, this was

385
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:36,359
in the A Team era, and he's he was, you know,

386
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,839
a big deal in his own right. And he was

387
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,480
actually a very nice guy. You know, every time you

388
00:24:43,559 --> 00:24:47,720
see him portrayed in character, he's he's this tough dude

389
00:24:47,799 --> 00:24:51,519
he was. I mean, yeah, he's a formidable character when

390
00:24:51,559 --> 00:24:53,200
you see him face to face. But he was just,

391
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,279
you know, very polite and mild mattered when you you know,

392
00:24:57,519 --> 00:25:01,480
met him in person, and he's he's not in character.

393
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:08,200
And I think it's like a quarter to four, four

394
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,599
point thirty something like that. In an afternoon, Vince calls

395
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:17,680
down to my office says, I got Taylor. He's gonna shoot.

396
00:25:17,799 --> 00:25:20,240
I want you to our direct. We're going into the city.

397
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,400
I got a hunk, I got no time. They just

398
00:25:24,319 --> 00:25:25,720
had to move heavy the nurse to get him in

399
00:25:25,759 --> 00:25:28,759
the same place at the same time. We're gonna meet

400
00:25:28,759 --> 00:25:30,839
down at the Empire State Building and shoot on top

401
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:36,079
of the building. I said, does anybody at the Empire

402
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,279
State Building know about this. No, just get your ass

403
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:47,160
in there. Yes, that's it. I'm like, what okay, So

404
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:53,039
I just grab everything, jump in my car, drive down

405
00:25:53,039 --> 00:25:58,799
to the city. Thank god, we actually had the infancy

406
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:05,640
of cell phones then barely so anyway, Actually, no, I

407
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,000
think I got yeah, I think I think they got

408
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,000
my first I had. I had an in car cel phone.

409
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,519
I think that was that. I got that. Yeah. I

410
00:26:14,519 --> 00:26:16,319
don't think we did have a phone. It was just

411
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:17,240
it was mayhem.

412
00:26:17,599 --> 00:26:17,799
Speaker 2: Yeah.

413
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:23,279
Speaker 4: And I'm in the lobby of the Empire State Building

414
00:26:23,759 --> 00:26:27,799
and there are elevators up to the what did they

415
00:26:27,839 --> 00:26:29,599
call it there, there's a there's a term for that,

416
00:26:29,839 --> 00:26:33,599
the this gallery where you could see out around the city.

417
00:26:33,759 --> 00:26:38,839
Speaker 7: They have that's almost yeah, yeah, but they have a

418
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:44,640
skywalk or something like that where the public goes to

419
00:26:45,599 --> 00:26:48,480
view the city from from the top of the building.

420
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 4: Very Vince has a whole other vision in mind. And

421
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:59,200
so I see Vince and Nelson. Nelson's get this look

422
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,759
on the face. Tell me about it. It's like he's

423
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,480
caught off guard. This is one of Vince's last minute

424
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,319
wing dans that you never know what's going to happen.

425
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,279
This is very typical stuff like this would just happen

426
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:13,559
pretty much all the time.

427
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,319
Speaker 5: So, Brian, did you ride up the elevators with Hogan

428
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,039
and Tea and what did that create a scene?

429
00:27:18,839 --> 00:27:22,319
Speaker 4: Oh well, here's here's the deal. It's thinning out. It's

430
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:31,920
like quarter to five now, and people are mostly elevators

431
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,640
are just coming down, Tourists are spilling out. Steve's there,

432
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:45,960
Nelson camera, Cruise sound guy, myself, Vince and Al and Tea,

433
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,839
and Vince pulls out a lot of hundreds, with which

434
00:27:52,079 --> 00:27:55,400
you know, I'm sure like me, You guys, everybody you know,

435
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,279
you get up in the morning, you pick up your wallet,

436
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,119
you pick up your phone, and a lot of hundreds.

437
00:27:59,599 --> 00:28:00,839
I mean, we we all do that, right.

438
00:28:01,599 --> 00:28:03,599
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, the million Dollar Man gimmick was based on

439
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,359
him handing out cash.

440
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 4: But but seriously, we're just thinking, how are we going

441
00:28:10,799 --> 00:28:15,880
to pull this off? No, no, no formal contact with

442
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,240
anybody that's a building manager. I mean, you don't just

443
00:28:19,519 --> 00:28:21,880
wander into a place like that and take command of

444
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:29,960
the situation. Uns. So there's this little dude, I don't

445
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,200
even think he spoke English who operated the elevator. He

446
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,640
could barely speak English. Vince whips out a hundred and said,

447
00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:42,440
going up. Wow, guy's got a six inch grin. All

448
00:28:42,519 --> 00:28:46,440
of a sudden, everybody piles into the elevator, the camera crew.

449
00:28:46,839 --> 00:28:49,279
It's just it's just insane.

450
00:28:50,759 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 5: Okay, So so Vince glided the path there. You didn't

451
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,319
have to deal with mobs necessarily.

452
00:28:56,519 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 4: The guy the guy. But but this is the magic

453
00:29:00,039 --> 00:29:03,359
of this whole kind of thing, because you get to

454
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,839
the top, it opens into that gallery viewing area or

455
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,720
whatever they call it. There's a couple of guys, a

456
00:29:10,799 --> 00:29:14,359
security guy who's all up in arms, then swips out

457
00:29:14,359 --> 00:29:19,319
another one hundred, a couple hundred, another guy like, oh, oh,

458
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,359
there's the mister t They're like, they're all excited. He says,

459
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,599
I don't want to shoot near I want to be outside.

460
00:29:26,599 --> 00:29:28,759
I'm going to go on top where the microwave dishes

461
00:29:28,799 --> 00:29:31,480
are and they'll look at each other. So we have

462
00:29:31,599 --> 00:29:35,200
to go up another flight and thee there and we're

463
00:29:35,359 --> 00:29:40,160
actually on top of the freaking building. And you know,

464
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,160
you see microwave dishes and that kind of stuff all

465
00:29:44,279 --> 00:29:46,839
over the place, and they've been around for decades, but

466
00:29:48,559 --> 00:29:54,400
you can't really safely stand next to these things. They

467
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,240
can fry your gonads.

468
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, they're making some noise, yeah, some worrying.

469
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:06,559
Speaker 4: It's sort of like this when you're standing eight feet

470
00:30:06,599 --> 00:30:09,720
away and you got you got dozens of these things

471
00:30:09,759 --> 00:30:13,319
around you and it's just going and you think, oh god,

472
00:30:14,119 --> 00:30:17,319
it's just weird. And Steve's looking at me like I

473
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,720
was planning to have kids, and I said me too.

474
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,680
It's it was really the weirdest. We set that shoot

475
00:30:25,799 --> 00:30:29,599
up faster than you could make a pop tart. I

476
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,880
mean we were we were just scrambling because it's really

477
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,640
not safe to be up there that close to these

478
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,599
things when they're alive. It was just the weirdest deal.

479
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:49,119
And Nelson his guys, they shot very brief video footage

480
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,160
and I came up with this. I can't remember what

481
00:30:52,279 --> 00:30:55,960
the exact wording was, but the headline on the photo

482
00:30:56,119 --> 00:31:02,160
was the oh yeah, it was the Twin Towers, I mean,

483
00:31:02,359 --> 00:31:06,240
referring to mister T and Hulk with the World Trade

484
00:31:06,279 --> 00:31:10,359
Center in the background. The spoof being that the World

485
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,960
Trade Center was known as the Twin Towers, but in

486
00:31:13,039 --> 00:31:18,240
this case the twins were the boys, so that that

487
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,839
was the caption on the photo in the program. But

488
00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:25,720
just capturing that photo was a matter of paying off

489
00:31:27,079 --> 00:31:31,559
all this all this, you know, elevator operator and security

490
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,079
personnel in the building, and Vince did what he had

491
00:31:35,119 --> 00:31:38,359
to do. But but it was between that and just

492
00:31:38,559 --> 00:31:41,519
the fact that these guys were so enamored that mister

493
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,160
T and Hulk were actually there and they were they

494
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,160
were making this possible. But the hundred dollars uh, you

495
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,359
know payoff was just sort of like icing on the cake.

496
00:31:51,759 --> 00:31:55,559
They were just enjoying being there and meeting these guys.

497
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:01,400
So it was fascinating. But it's a real name fighter

498
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,400
because I just said, man, if we don't get this shot,

499
00:32:03,519 --> 00:32:05,400
what are we gonna do. We're gonna have to go

500
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,400
to the Syde text machine and guys and you know,

501
00:32:09,519 --> 00:32:13,599
with a stock photo or something. It's just this this

502
00:32:13,839 --> 00:32:18,319
was this this kind of last minute crazy, you know,

503
00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:23,640
do or die approach to doing things was just garby

504
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,799
gur It was you know, a given. It was how

505
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,480
things are done. You know, you got with a program

506
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,160
and became part of it and went along with it

507
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,279
and made it happen, or you get off the train.

508
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,839
Speaker 5: So yeah, it's so funny because you look at so

509
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,359
many of these promotional materials and how they up their

510
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,599
game from a you know, just a promotion perspective around

511
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,759
this time, just you know, everything looked more polished and

512
00:32:43,839 --> 00:32:46,160
professional and you would think that maybe, you know, that's

513
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,359
because now they have more time to be more studious

514
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,640
and planning ahead and taking their time and not at

515
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,920
all now. It's just it's almost a small miracle as

516
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,640
some of the stuff came off with such polish.

517
00:32:55,839 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 6: It's it's so surprising that it was such gorilla style,

518
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,960
uh you know production, you know, like just a.

519
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:05,559
Speaker 2: It's amazing.

520
00:33:06,759 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 4: Yah.

521
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,599
Speaker 5: Yeah, They've always kind of and they stuck with that

522
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,279
spirit forever. I'm in sure now it's much more you know,

523
00:33:12,359 --> 00:33:14,519
professionalized as far as like permit pulling and stuff. But

524
00:33:14,559 --> 00:33:17,319
they would just show up and shoot scenes and places

525
00:33:17,559 --> 00:33:20,039
that the people that were there their heads would spend.

526
00:33:20,079 --> 00:33:22,240
They'd be in and out, you know, and shot somebody

527
00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:23,559
going any idea what that was about.

528
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 4: I don't know that that level of energy and excitement

529
00:33:29,799 --> 00:33:33,079
around this is still there to that level, because I

530
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,160
don't know that you could do this this day and

531
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,000
age unless it was a totally different new shtick of

532
00:33:38,079 --> 00:33:41,079
some sort that somebody came up with that was you know,

533
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:47,319
just all encompassing for the public's imagination. But these characters

534
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,920
were literally bigger than life. And it wasn't it wasn't

535
00:33:51,039 --> 00:33:57,720
a Marvel comic kind of thing where that's completely contrived.

536
00:33:57,799 --> 00:34:03,640
These are actual people, actual, really big people. And you know,

537
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,400
I mean but that that was just so sensational. That

538
00:34:08,559 --> 00:34:12,079
but between Vince cajoling people with a couple of bucks

539
00:34:12,119 --> 00:34:14,519
here in there, and just the fact that he had

540
00:34:14,559 --> 00:34:16,960
these guys in tow and you could just you know,

541
00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:20,159
see them right there or they shake your hand, you

542
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,920
know whatever. It was just mind blowing and people people

543
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,480
would just pitch in and make it work no matter what.

544
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,320
It was wild. And that reminds me the first time

545
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:37,639
meeting Hulk. You know, I'm I don't know, I'm about

546
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,559
five five ten, five ten and a half something like that.

547
00:34:43,119 --> 00:34:45,639
I'm not a huge guy, but I'm not little guy.

548
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,000
But you know, the first time I met Hulk and

549
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:55,679
we shook hands, his grip grabs it's like halfway up

550
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:56,320
my forearm.

551
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 5: Wow, and.

552
00:35:00,199 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 2: Big dudes, it was.

553
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,519
Speaker 4: It was as comical. I was getting a kick out

554
00:35:05,559 --> 00:35:07,320
of it, you know, And he was as nice as

555
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,639
he could be. And I remember the first time meeting Andrea,

556
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:18,719
I don't know where my hand went. His group engulfed

557
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,920
my arm practically up to my elbow.

558
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 5: Well, you're just lucky you didn't get an oil check, Brian.

559
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:24,679
I don't know if you know what those are, but

560
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:26,079
Andrea was famous for those.

561
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, no, that I would have been in I

562
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:30,800
would have been in a jar.

563
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,119
Speaker 2: Well I assume you were familiar with his flatulence.

564
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 4: Well there, you know, you say that so kindly. Yeah,

565
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,320
you know, I'll tell you something about that guy. He

566
00:35:50,119 --> 00:35:55,079
he was really fascinating in his own way. And you know,

567
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:04,960
it's just it's kind of weird even I how do

568
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:06,360
you put it? How do you put it? He he

569
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:14,719
had a completely different upbringing from ninety nine percent of

570
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,800
the guys that make it into the ring as a programmer.

571
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,400
I'm in whether whether you're with whether you whether you're

572
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:27,079
with WWF or whichever syndicate whatever. You know, a lot

573
00:36:27,119 --> 00:36:29,760
of these guys came from nothing. They grew up in

574
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,920
a trailer park. They you know, they barely scratched a

575
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,320
living together doing some kind of bront work or everything

576
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,280
from being a lumberjack to a truck driver to uh,

577
00:36:40,559 --> 00:36:46,840
you know whatever. Uh, I'm not knocking that one bit.

578
00:36:47,079 --> 00:36:50,559
You know, their they're you know, salt of the earth guys.

579
00:36:52,599 --> 00:36:56,000
Andre on the other hand, he was born to a

580
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,679
very very wealthy family and you can find a lot

581
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,519
online that they were farmers. Somebody threw in a lot

582
00:37:02,599 --> 00:37:08,039
of crap to uh tone that down. His family raises

583
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:14,079
the French equivalent of the finest race horses in this

584
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,199
country that you're you're you're going to find at the Belmont.

585
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,079
Speaker 5: Such a huge, huge ranch in South Carolina.

586
00:37:21,199 --> 00:37:23,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, he grew up.

587
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 4: He grew up in a very well healed world. And

588
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,199
in other words, he didn't come to this because he

589
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,079
had to or you know, it was some sort of

590
00:37:37,159 --> 00:37:39,639
goal he needed to attain to make money. He didn't

591
00:37:39,679 --> 00:37:44,559
need money. It was like reverse psychology. It was it

592
00:37:44,679 --> 00:37:49,480
was like where you know, the the average rust event

593
00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:53,239
is very curious about the guy in the ring and

594
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,519
what they're all about. There. There there's some I don't

595
00:37:56,559 --> 00:37:58,559
I don't mean to make them sound like some sort

596
00:37:58,559 --> 00:38:02,159
of circus attraction, but they are, in a manner speaking,

597
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,480
an oddity of a sort. They're not normal like you

598
00:38:05,559 --> 00:38:08,840
and me. These are big people, and they're people that

599
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,639
are still despite their girth and their height and their weight,

600
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:16,199
they're still agile. They're able to do things that most

601
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,079
people couldn't do if they worked out twenty four to seven.

602
00:38:20,199 --> 00:38:25,519
They're amazing people, they really are. And Andre suffered from gigantism.

603
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,760
Everybody knows this. He had oversized organs and that's what

604
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,480
ultimately took his life. It's very sad. He had a

605
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:37,559
very very serious medical condition. And he knew he was

606
00:38:37,599 --> 00:38:41,679
an oddity. That's the thing. He knew. He was a

607
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:48,239
really strange guy to most people. And he was curious

608
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:54,400
about the audience's curiosity is intellectual in a way, and

609
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,519
he was sort of fascinated by the fact that he

610
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,000
was fascinating the other pe and he got in the

611
00:39:01,119 --> 00:39:04,239
ring to just sort of see to peer out from

612
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:09,199
the ring out at everyone else. I mean, think about that.

613
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,840
It's kind of it's kind of wacky. It's interesting, you know.

614
00:39:13,599 --> 00:39:20,639
And I'll tell you the boys are are not a

615
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:25,639
bunch of choir boys. Let's put it that way, okay.

616
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,599
I mean, it's not unusual to find some of the

617
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,239
guys down on an Eleventh Avenue bar in Lower Manhattan

618
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,079
banging the crap out of each other. Now, the same

619
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:43,199
thing can be said about major Major League ballplayers. They're

620
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,719
a rowdy crowd, A lot of them, not all of them,

621
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,320
but a lot of them. And Andre, on the other hand,

622
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:56,239
Vince would would would throw these very elaborate parties for

623
00:39:56,519 --> 00:39:59,440
the employees of the w W. He and Lunda were

624
00:39:59,559 --> 00:40:06,000
very very good about showing their appreciation for their employees

625
00:40:06,079 --> 00:40:09,280
and I mean by the staff people that Bob McMullen's

626
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:18,159
of the world, and you know, they on occasion, sometimes

627
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,400
annually for a while there would throw a party at

628
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:26,639
the Rainbow Room in New York, a very swanky place

629
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:31,280
on the on the top of the city, many flights up,

630
00:40:31,519 --> 00:40:35,800
and they'd have this big swanky dinner in a ballroom

631
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:40,000
with an MC and a band, a live band in

632
00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:44,519
an orchestra, and just like crazy stuff. And it was

633
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:46,719
it was sort of like high society out of the

634
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,679
nineteen thirties or something. It was really something that everybody

635
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,159
would be dressed up and sometimes it was black tie,

636
00:40:54,079 --> 00:40:58,599
and you know, you really couldn't expect the boys to

637
00:40:58,679 --> 00:41:01,239
be into this stuff, but he'd could joel a few

638
00:41:01,559 --> 00:41:04,320
of the heavy hitters to show up, you know now

639
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:09,639
and be part of the festivities. And Andre came to

640
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,519
some of these, and but he had like this little

641
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:18,000
private bar area at the Rainbow Room where they knew him,

642
00:41:18,559 --> 00:41:21,079
and they had a special goblet for him that was

643
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:25,280
like ten or twelve inches across and fourteen inches high.

644
00:41:25,679 --> 00:41:29,519
I mean, this is like a wineglass on steroids. And

645
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,760
he drank nothing but chitola feet the rothschild four hundred

646
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,440
bucks or whatever a bottle. It took a bottle to

647
00:41:38,519 --> 00:41:42,599
fill the goblin, and he would have six or seven

648
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,119
or eight goblets in the course of a night. I mean,

649
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,599
Ziz Louise. Most people they're hard for used to drink

650
00:41:49,639 --> 00:41:52,760
a bottle of wine and stand up at the same time. Yeah,

651
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:58,079
this guy was a big dude, and he had a

652
00:41:58,159 --> 00:42:04,119
capacity for alcohol make a tanker truck look lame. He

653
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:11,000
just it was utterly amazing. But he was just very gentlemanly,

654
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:17,960
very composed, very you know, he wasn't rude and boisterous.

655
00:42:18,119 --> 00:42:21,559
It just wasn't his thing. He actually owned a three

656
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:25,800
star I mean like Michelman Star restaurant in Montreal.

657
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 5: That's right.

658
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 4: Hear this guy and it's just sort of fascinating. And

659
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,239
you know, he played his character for all all he's worth.

660
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,800
And you know, his role in The Princess Bride is

661
00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:44,440
is kind of you know enshrined in Hollywood lore at

662
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,960
this point. He's just one of a kind in every way.

663
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,920
But I just I'm not a big party person and

664
00:42:54,079 --> 00:42:56,559
at the time I was single. I met my wife

665
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:01,800
after my time there, and you know, I would just

666
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,599
bring a date to these things, or or I wouldn't

667
00:43:04,639 --> 00:43:07,039
necessarily I just hang out. I would just wind up

668
00:43:07,079 --> 00:43:09,199
and go in and sit next to Andre and shoot

669
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:09,760
the ship with that.

670
00:43:11,679 --> 00:43:14,760
Speaker 5: Speaking of that, I guess to be kind of tawdry

671
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,280
about it. We asked about flatulence, and that's not a

672
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,519
small part of Andre's legacy. He tended to leave his

673
00:43:21,679 --> 00:43:22,840
essence behind, didn't he, Brian.

674
00:43:23,639 --> 00:43:28,199
Speaker 4: It's honestly not. There's that, Yeah, that's that whole side

675
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:33,679
of things. But there was one time that Steve and

676
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:38,400
I had to grab a photo shoot with Andre and

677
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,679
it was just one of those classic fly by night

678
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,079
you know, you've you've got no time, you've got no

679
00:43:46,039 --> 00:43:51,119
forewarning to get anything set up. He was available, you know,

680
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,719
his driver had the car waiting. He had to get

681
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,920
back to the airport to get to the gig. Kind

682
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,800
of thing. You guys have have you know, an hour

683
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,079
or two in between the have a photo shoot. Well,

684
00:44:01,119 --> 00:44:02,760
we don't even need that long, but you know, you

685
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:04,920
have to set up a backdrop and lights and what

686
00:44:05,119 --> 00:44:10,760
have you. And Steve didn't have anybody being a roadie

687
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:12,679
for him or anything, you know. I just helped him

688
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:19,079
put his lights up. And basically we were in some

689
00:44:19,199 --> 00:44:25,679
rented space in Stamford that wasn't really formally a WWF office,

690
00:44:26,519 --> 00:44:30,480
but there wasn't. The place was just crammed whatever office

691
00:44:30,519 --> 00:44:34,280
space they had, it was just clerical stuff. We found

692
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:39,800
a storeroom on a parking level under this building that

693
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,840
was relatively empty enough. We found a couple outlets we

694
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,760
could set up Steve's lights and power pack and everything

695
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,960
for his camera, and set up a backdrop and do

696
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,800
a quick and dirty photo shoot with Andrea for a

697
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,440
few shots. This is for the magazine or something I

698
00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:03,039
can't even recall, but so Andre just you know, sitting

699
00:45:03,079 --> 00:45:07,559
on a stool. The stool's howling and pain. I'm joking,

700
00:45:08,079 --> 00:45:14,480
but you know, all of a sudden, Steve and I

701
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:22,679
it's a sound like like a six foot wide water main,

702
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:30,360
that's correct, and this gush of liquid like thousands of

703
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:36,360
gallons pouring through it a hour or something, but there's

704
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,400
nothing going on, and we're looking at for the sea.

705
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,639
It's not coming from the ceil, and we're looking sideways,

706
00:45:40,679 --> 00:45:43,800
it's not coming sideways, What the hell? And then there's

707
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,960
this banging, like like you're in a steel mill and

708
00:45:48,159 --> 00:45:50,639
and some guy's banging on the side of a caldron

709
00:45:50,679 --> 00:45:58,480
with a sledgehammer, like that's what the hell, and another

710
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:05,119
just like me and I were like what, And that's

711
00:46:05,199 --> 00:46:09,519
his gut. That's like some crap going up, you know,

712
00:46:09,639 --> 00:46:12,800
he's hosting a steel convention or something in his stomach,

713
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,840
and it's just I've never heard anything like that before

714
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,199
or since in my life come out I kind of

715
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,719
out of anything, never mind a human being. But this,

716
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:30,320
this guy's gastric system was was like a cave full

717
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,039
of steel smelting equipment or something. I mean, it was

718
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:39,960
just bizarre, totally bizarre. And Steve and I were just

719
00:46:40,079 --> 00:46:46,719
like like speechless, like humans can't make sounds like that, right,

720
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,199
And Andre is just like completely unfazed. He just had

721
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,840
sort of like this sleepy look. I think he was

722
00:46:54,079 --> 00:46:57,920
like dog tired. He was just catnapping on cars and

723
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,480
planes between gigs, and He's just like, oh, big deal,

724
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,840
you know. But we were we were just fascinated I mean,

725
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:06,480
you know, I wanted to. I wanted to you know,

726
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,360
alert the Scientific Press or something and right investigation, you know,

727
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,239
like you have six stomachs and they're made of steel

728
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,599
or so. I don't know. It was just weird.

729
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:24,679
Speaker 1: Lapsed Fan Wrestling podcast with Jack and and j Bisaro,

730
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,760
The Lapsed Fan Wrestling Podcast, something.

731
00:47:35,599 --> 00:47:39,119
Speaker 5: Like being around these guys, Man, what unique career experiences U.

732
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,840
But we touched on earlier the photo shoot for a

733
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:44,320
lot of the photo shoots you did. I know you

734
00:47:44,599 --> 00:47:46,719
helped with the wrestling album Okay and this is big.

735
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,679
We can all picture the cover of the wrestling album

736
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:52,239
that out with in eighty six. I think it was

737
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,679
with Grab Them Cakes and Real American and all kinds

738
00:47:55,679 --> 00:47:58,239
of the songs that they would use and associate. I

739
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,199
think Tutti Fruity by Mean Gi is on their standback

740
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,400
by Vince unbelievable. So tell us about I mean, that

741
00:48:04,559 --> 00:48:08,440
is just like a oh my god, that's like a tapestry.

742
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:09,119
Speaker 4: What is it?

743
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,639
Speaker 5: A just a whole scene of all these wrestlers faces.

744
00:48:12,679 --> 00:48:16,000
It's like a tableau almost of the era. So tell

745
00:48:16,079 --> 00:48:16,719
us about that one.

746
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:21,320
Speaker 4: Well, I got to tell you that was a process

747
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,679
that took over a period of weeks, and for those

748
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:27,679
familiar with it, it's a double album. But when you

749
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,480
open it up, there's a recording moment the Hit Factory

750
00:48:31,519 --> 00:48:34,599
in New York, where you know everyone from Billy Joel

751
00:48:34,639 --> 00:48:39,400
to you name it, major stars. He recorded over time.

752
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:45,760
Very very few of those people were in that room

753
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:46,679
at the same time.

754
00:48:47,599 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 5: Oh wow.

755
00:48:49,159 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 4: And in many instances people were elsewhere. And for example,

756
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,400
when you look on the cover and Vince has his

757
00:48:58,599 --> 00:49:08,400
arm on Geno Glun's shoulder, you're they were shot against

758
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,480
a backdrop and dropped in. They were shot elsewhere because

759
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,400
they just were That was done at a show where

760
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:20,440
they were Gene was a ring announcer and Vince was

761
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:24,079
doing commentary and so forth. They were just shot and

762
00:49:24,159 --> 00:49:30,039
dropped in. As most of these people, everyone was a

763
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:35,559
different wrestling events around the country. Whatever the ticket was,

764
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:42,199
they weren't going to disturb the flow of events for

765
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:47,639
wrestling fans. So whenever people were in New York for

766
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,920
a show, or close by, say Poughkeepsie, New York, where

767
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:56,119
a lot of taping used to be done, we'd send

768
00:49:56,159 --> 00:49:59,280
a driver and get him in town. So some of

769
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,559
these people were actually shot in the studio room, and

770
00:50:02,679 --> 00:50:05,320
it was also done around the time that the studio

771
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:09,440
was booked for different recordings, so it was a major

772
00:50:09,639 --> 00:50:12,840
feat to put this thing together. It took and this

773
00:50:13,079 --> 00:50:15,239
was all done on this side text machine, so I

774
00:50:15,599 --> 00:50:18,480
can't even begin to tell you how many hours went

775
00:50:18,559 --> 00:50:24,039
into creating this image. But a few of the wrestlers

776
00:50:24,119 --> 00:50:26,159
were actually shot in the room, but we had to

777
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,599
map out where they were going to be and sort

778
00:50:30,639 --> 00:50:36,239
of roughly gauge where they would be, what their stance

779
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,480
would be, what their proximity to the camera would be,

780
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:46,360
so that when it was all put together electronically, which

781
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,599
even now this day and age in photoshops, this would

782
00:50:50,639 --> 00:50:54,760
be a monster taking to try to do. But it was.

783
00:50:56,320 --> 00:51:01,440
It was utterly mind blowing the amount of time and

784
00:51:01,559 --> 00:51:04,559
resources that creating this image.

785
00:51:04,679 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, I can't believe that it was different places different

786
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:08,760
I would have swore it was everyone in the same

787
00:51:09,079 --> 00:51:10,719
you know, under the same roof, because they shot that

788
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,119
music video to play on We Are the World and

789
00:51:13,159 --> 00:51:14,679
everybody was there, so I thought they just did it

790
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:15,119
it that thing.

791
00:51:16,079 --> 00:51:19,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I mean, I'm just to give you a

792
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:26,079
really really really crazy just not go through the whole

793
00:51:26,119 --> 00:51:29,920
Blessed thing. But obviously because you know Jesse Ventura front

794
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:33,519
and center on the cover and our old buddy Hollie

795
00:51:34,559 --> 00:51:40,639
right behind him holding the mic. You know, the Killer Bees,

796
00:51:42,639 --> 00:51:48,840
Randy Savage, you could pick out your your favorite you know,

797
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:57,079
wrestler manager whoever throughout some of the some of the

798
00:51:57,519 --> 00:52:04,079
funnier things to me are the uh the gal on

799
00:52:04,199 --> 00:52:09,119
the trumpet at the far left, that was a makeup

800
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:12,159
artist and an old girl of mine, old girlfriend.

801
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:13,800
Speaker 5: Oh wow, wow, look out for that.

802
00:52:14,639 --> 00:52:18,760
Speaker 4: She she made scary sounds come out of that trumpet.

803
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:23,119
We asked her to stop, but to save her life.

804
00:52:25,199 --> 00:52:27,400
You go three people to the right and you see

805
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:35,239
the gal with the Rickenbacker guitar. That's Cyndi Lauper, Oh wow,

806
00:52:36,039 --> 00:52:37,920
aka Mona Flambay.

807
00:52:38,199 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 5: Mona Flambay, right, that was like a pseudonym wearing a.

808
00:52:41,519 --> 00:52:46,559
Speaker 4: Wig, of course, and George the Animal Steel holding a

809
00:52:46,639 --> 00:52:48,239
soprano sacks upside down.

810
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:51,320
Speaker 5: But yes, of course, what was the reason for Mona Flambay?

811
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:52,960
Was that kind of like she wanted to mask that

812
00:52:53,039 --> 00:52:54,239
she was on the album or something.

813
00:52:55,880 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 4: You know, It was just it was it that wasn't

814
00:53:01,079 --> 00:53:03,559
really even thought out. She just thought it would be

815
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:09,440
fun to be in there. Yeah, I mean, and yeah,

816
00:53:10,039 --> 00:53:12,480
it was. It was just such a crazy deal. Every

817
00:53:12,559 --> 00:53:17,280
aspect of this thing was was was was really really

818
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:23,599
comical to me. And what's his name? One of the producers.

819
00:53:23,639 --> 00:53:25,280
I'm just going to the credits. I mean, there's so

820
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:28,000
much stuff about this. I I I haven't looked at

821
00:53:28,039 --> 00:53:32,920
this in eons until just recently because I was starting

822
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,840
to sort up my flat files I I have. I

823
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:39,159
have tons of samples of things that I worked on

824
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:40,760
in these flat.

825
00:53:40,559 --> 00:53:42,559
Speaker 5: Files and very interesting.

826
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:50,599
Speaker 4: Oh my god. But what's what's his name? The well

827
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:56,960
Well executive producers Dave wolf Well. That was Cindy's manager

828
00:53:57,039 --> 00:54:01,159
and then boyfriend. Yes, back in the air. Uh but

829
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:05,639
but but Rick Rick Springfield, Okay, Rick Rick Springfield. He's

830
00:54:06,079 --> 00:54:09,079
the producer you know, screaming on the mic behind the

831
00:54:09,119 --> 00:54:13,079
control board at Rowdy Roddy. I mean, I was in

832
00:54:13,159 --> 00:54:15,360
love of that guy's work back you know, when I

833
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,480
was a teen he did hang on Sloopy. I mean,

834
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,039
so he was behind that band. I mean, it's just

835
00:54:23,079 --> 00:54:25,440
this is like a time machine looking at this because

836
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,519
it h I mean, just because the Hit Factory is

837
00:54:28,559 --> 00:54:31,159
such a cool place and and sort of the home

838
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:39,800
of of some phenomenal rock. I mean, it's it's just

839
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:42,840
it's a little bit of musical history and and uh

840
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:47,239
and a lot of w w F history. But the

841
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:52,239
way that the way that album cover came together was

842
00:54:52,559 --> 00:54:55,679
was just a mountain of work, absolute mountain of work.

843
00:54:56,360 --> 00:55:00,000
But it was a fun project, you know, I don't

844
00:55:00,159 --> 00:55:03,079
I wouldn't call it one of the greatest pieces of

845
00:55:03,199 --> 00:55:09,400
music I ever put together, you know. Yeah, And I'm

846
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:11,519
think they were aiming for that either. It was just

847
00:55:11,639 --> 00:55:12,440
a fun thing.

848
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,519
Speaker 5: They were just trying. They were just trying to catch

849
00:55:15,599 --> 00:55:18,440
the wave of licensing opportunities that came their way. We've

850
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,440
talked about this endlessly over the years on the show.

851
00:55:20,519 --> 00:55:23,920
It's like action figure, shore board game, shore lunch boxes.

852
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:26,159
We'll do it all. We don't care like someone's going

853
00:55:26,199 --> 00:55:26,639
to pay us.

854
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. And I think it was it was it

855
00:55:30,039 --> 00:55:32,400
was you know, there was a little bit of Okay,

856
00:55:32,519 --> 00:55:35,519
we're wrestling stars. There's rock stars. Why can't we be

857
00:55:35,639 --> 00:55:36,960
wrestling and rock stars.

858
00:55:37,039 --> 00:55:38,639
Speaker 5: Yeah, with the rock and wrestling connection, it makes a

859
00:55:38,679 --> 00:55:40,000
ton of sense. All of a sudden, You've got people

860
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,039
backstage at the shows in the garden who know how

861
00:55:42,039 --> 00:55:46,599
to put a record out yeah, exactly, wonderful. So mentioning WrestleMania.

862
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:49,840
We've talked a lot about the preparation you did in

863
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:52,199
designing the logo and the photo shoot with Hulk and

864
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:53,960
Mister T and all of that, but you were on

865
00:55:54,199 --> 00:55:56,000
site as well, i'd imagine for the show, right.

866
00:55:58,159 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll tell you that was just a blur. There

867
00:56:03,519 --> 00:56:08,960
was a two page spread in Life magazine of a photo,

868
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:18,360
a two page spread photo of the event of you know,

869
00:56:18,519 --> 00:56:20,719
the action in the ring during the I mean, in

870
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:24,719
the two page spread, the the rings like two inches across.

871
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:28,920
It's just it's just this massive people, the thousands of

872
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:36,159
people that filled the gardens, and it's mostly in darkness

873
00:56:36,159 --> 00:56:38,239
because the spotlights are all on the stage, but you

874
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:41,800
just see the sea of people out there and it's crazy.

875
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:47,239
And I was looking around in it and it is

876
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,960
I was trying to establish where I was. I remember

877
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:54,440
where I was standing, you know, in respect to going

878
00:56:54,519 --> 00:56:58,880
back to the dressing rooms and so forth. And it's

879
00:56:59,039 --> 00:57:02,559
just a weird feeling to see that photo capture that

880
00:57:02,679 --> 00:57:06,000
whole moment and know that you were you were there. Yeah,

881
00:57:08,159 --> 00:57:10,000
it's hard, it's hard to explain, but I mean it

882
00:57:10,119 --> 00:57:14,880
was I mean it was so exhausting. I think every everybody,

883
00:57:15,079 --> 00:57:18,000
including Vince Helen it probably slept for twenty four hours

884
00:57:18,119 --> 00:57:22,440
solid or longer after everyone was just fried to a crisp.

885
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:23,519
Speaker 2: Wow.

886
00:57:24,239 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 4: It was an incredibly exhausting undertaking. Well, but I'll tell

887
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:32,159
you the most one of one of the most fascinating

888
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:37,679
things I think about that whole thing, and it's sort

889
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:45,079
of technical but not really, but every everything was the

890
00:57:45,159 --> 00:57:47,159
show going out to the public. I mean, obviously you

891
00:57:47,519 --> 00:57:49,280
had a full house of the garden that out alone

892
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:52,480
was a big deal. But this this went to a

893
00:57:52,599 --> 00:57:58,559
million people around the country minimally, I think more and

894
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:04,480
and and then and ultimately with video cassettes and stuff.

895
00:58:04,519 --> 00:58:06,320
It was it was seen over and over again by

896
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:13,320
millions more. But the show almost didn't go on, as

897
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:17,159
they say, due to a technical glitch.

898
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 5: Oh wow, really tell me more?

899
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,559
Speaker 4: And well what in the build up to this thing,

900
00:58:25,039 --> 00:58:31,719
Vince was consulting people at ESPN and anyone who lives

901
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,960
in Connecticut, you know when you drive by their headquarters

902
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:40,480
they have this massive compound. You will see these gigantic

903
00:58:40,559 --> 00:58:44,519
satellite dishes of the slang term for them as birds,

904
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:49,280
and you know you see them twelve fifteen feet across

905
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:52,800
and sixty feet across, like something that's an antenna farm

906
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:56,400
aimed at their researching outer space. I mean, they just

907
00:58:56,599 --> 00:58:59,679
they have gazillions of these birds end up at the

908
00:58:59,719 --> 00:59:04,639
sky their various satellites to take signals up and beat

909
00:59:04,679 --> 00:59:10,280
them down to cable networks all over the world. And

910
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:18,519
ESPN was in its relative infancy then, but they were

911
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:25,719
really aces at satellite technology. And it was suggested that

912
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:31,559
Vince not get one bird or two birds, but three birds,

913
00:59:31,679 --> 00:59:34,639
so he had redundancy so that if the first two

914
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:40,760
went down for any reason, and sometimes their meteorological conditions

915
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:47,880
or weather conditions can mess with satellite signals, and so

916
00:59:48,039 --> 00:59:54,000
he decided to get six birds. And even Nelson, who's

917
00:59:54,519 --> 00:59:59,039
like Nelson Schwiegeler, was the un staffed TV hauncho who

918
00:59:59,079 --> 01:00:02,559
had been in the business and knew his way around,

919
01:00:02,719 --> 01:00:05,559
and he just ad vinced, it's overkilled. You don't need

920
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:08,480
six birds. And these things weren't cheap either to rent.

921
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:11,800
And these are big boys. These are big, big, like

922
01:00:12,519 --> 01:00:16,119
twenty five thirty foot dishes of mounted on the backs

923
01:00:16,159 --> 01:00:19,920
of trucks and they're all lined up outside of Madison

924
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:27,079
Square Garden and lo and behold. Bird number one went down,

925
01:00:28,199 --> 01:00:33,119
Bird number two went down, and bird number three went down.

926
01:00:33,199 --> 01:00:39,679
Oh my god, foorth bird carried the show and ad

927
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:44,840
Vince listened to you know, all the prodigal sons and

928
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:50,480
the and the stock advice and you know the conservative

929
01:00:50,599 --> 01:00:53,960
Oh you don't need that, you need this. It wouldn't

930
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:55,480
have happened. It wouldn't have gone. It would have been

931
01:00:55,519 --> 01:00:58,840
a disaster, and people who'd prepaid for this, they'd want

932
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:00,920
their money back. It could just could have been a

933
01:01:01,079 --> 01:01:08,599
financial whole bigger than Vesuvius. And you know, I think he,

934
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:13,559
I think, for all his uh propensity for you know,

935
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:19,599
doing things on a fly and crazy notions and doing

936
01:01:19,719 --> 01:01:24,559
things anesthetical to how there's quote unquote supposed to be done,

937
01:01:25,519 --> 01:01:28,880
he was sure enough to know that he couldn't risk

938
01:01:30,639 --> 01:01:33,559
not pulling the trigger on this all the way for

939
01:01:33,719 --> 01:01:41,480
one second and getting those six getting sick birth was

940
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:48,559
was a big expensive undertaking. But it's safe day, and

941
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,639
it's a it's a really interesting deal. You know, you

942
01:01:51,679 --> 01:01:53,760
don't think about stuff like that. The public would never

943
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:55,599
know about it in a million years, But I think

944
01:01:55,679 --> 01:01:59,239
back on it, I think that that you know, it

945
01:01:59,639 --> 01:02:02,199
would have people would have just made jokes about the

946
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:05,400
whole thing and say, yeah they did. They talked a

947
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:08,320
big blue streak, and they didn't pull it off. It

948
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:11,320
probably never would have happened again. And here it's happening

949
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:14,039
over forty years later. It's an annual event, and it's

950
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:19,519
worldwide now, and you just think of everything riding on that.

951
01:02:19,639 --> 01:02:22,719
I don't think Vincent his wildest imagination, thought it would

952
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:25,920
get as big and as broad globally.

953
01:02:25,519 --> 01:02:26,199
Speaker 2: As it has.

954
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:31,559
Speaker 4: But it all hinged, you know, the success in the

955
01:02:31,679 --> 01:02:35,199
momentum that took it where it is today, hinged on

956
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:38,559
having it get out the door, up to the birds,

957
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:44,159
down to doors without without any any kind of interruption,

958
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:49,320
And it could have been quite the opposite, you know,

959
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:53,360
but his foresight found a way around it, which I

960
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:56,519
thought was fascinating. I give him credit for, you know,

961
01:02:57,599 --> 01:03:03,039
really really honestly to my way thinking. He is the

962
01:03:03,199 --> 01:03:06,199
father of on demand as we know it. People don't

963
01:03:06,239 --> 01:03:08,079
think of that. They don't equate pay per view with

964
01:03:08,159 --> 01:03:11,159
on demand. Is they're just two different names for virtually

965
01:03:11,239 --> 01:03:15,480
the same thing. And he pioneered it. They're actually people

966
01:03:15,519 --> 01:03:20,119
who explored it before him for boxing. But no, we

967
01:03:20,239 --> 01:03:23,920
are near on that scale. And I kind of take

968
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:26,440
my hat off to the fact that as much as

969
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:29,920
we bitch and moan about our cable bills, we wouldn't

970
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:34,920
even have cabbills if he hadn't you know, pushed this

971
01:03:35,199 --> 01:03:39,000
when he did, And I mean, what it really did

972
01:03:39,159 --> 01:03:43,840
was spur the industry to realize the possibilities and start

973
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:48,000
investing in it. Because to have what everyone has across

974
01:03:48,079 --> 01:03:51,199
the country in the way of channels and choices, no

975
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:54,360
matter how much they complain about it at times, that

976
01:03:54,599 --> 01:03:59,760
took that probably more than a trillion dollars of investmental

977
01:04:00,079 --> 01:04:03,760
hold easily to get it where it's where it is today,

978
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:09,199
in fiber optics, in satellite technology, you name it. And

979
01:04:10,639 --> 01:04:13,880
I'm not saying that WrestleMania is responsible for that, But

980
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:19,039
what I'm saying is taking the chance to pioneer something

981
01:04:19,119 --> 01:04:22,639
that had never been done before, never mind on that scale,

982
01:04:23,559 --> 01:04:27,079
is what spurred people to think about the possibilities and

983
01:04:27,199 --> 01:04:30,719
go out there and actually do it and convince banks,

984
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:35,440
big banks, huge banks to bankroll that kind of research

985
01:04:35,599 --> 01:04:39,719
and development and get it out and make it actually viable.

986
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:44,960
Huge You know, you don't think of somebody like Vince

987
01:04:45,039 --> 01:04:51,639
McMahon having influenced and created the interest in a growth

988
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:54,639
industry that was back then just people were like, what

989
01:04:55,079 --> 01:04:58,519
what are you talking about? Paper? What? Yeah, I mean

990
01:04:58,599 --> 01:05:02,800
this was so new and now and now we all

991
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:05,360
come home from work, whatever we're doing, you know, we're

992
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:07,880
at the gym, whatever, we throw on a sports game, whatever,

993
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:10,800
it's second nature. We don't even think about it. We

994
01:05:11,239 --> 01:05:14,519
just make the choice and it's there. But it's all there.

995
01:05:14,559 --> 01:05:20,400
And the money was invested to make cable and streaming possible,

996
01:05:21,519 --> 01:05:26,639
spurred on by that event. It's think thing that you know,

997
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:29,000
consider in that in that bigger framework.

998
01:05:32,159 --> 01:05:34,639
Speaker 6: And you know, I want to say too and pay

999
01:05:34,679 --> 01:05:38,719
you a compliment of this, because you know, I think,

1000
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:43,719
in my opinion, the WrestleMania logo is no small part

1001
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:48,239
to the success of of of WrestleMania as well, given

1002
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:50,360
the fact that and I'm looking at it right here,

1003
01:05:51,559 --> 01:05:57,440
outside of two WrestleMania's and well kind of three ish

1004
01:06:00,199 --> 01:06:02,719
variation of your logo has been used ever since.

1005
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:09,480
Speaker 4: Right the basic framework of it is still in use.

1006
01:06:10,079 --> 01:06:13,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, the main the main difference is the S. The

1007
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:17,039
S isn't The S is not uh uh does an

1008
01:06:17,039 --> 01:06:19,760
attach to the R is? The main is like the

1009
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:22,039
main main difference. Other than that, it's like it's got

1010
01:06:22,119 --> 01:06:24,000
the same basic design.

1011
01:06:25,159 --> 01:06:28,760
Speaker 4: Well, it comes and goes. Actually sometimes they put it back.

1012
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:32,159
I mean, it's it's a weird deal. But yeah, I've

1013
01:06:32,639 --> 01:06:35,440
been sort of fascinated by the fact that it you know,

1014
01:06:35,639 --> 01:06:38,360
I haven't been in control of the production of it

1015
01:06:38,639 --> 01:06:43,280
since the first three years. Sure, but it is they

1016
01:06:43,599 --> 01:06:46,000
you know. And what's kind of funny too, is they

1017
01:06:46,199 --> 01:06:51,239
they brought me back. This this young gal that that

1018
01:06:51,519 --> 01:06:56,280
graduated from Bridgeport University. Her name is w Sir Gallis,

1019
01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:59,599
and she I hired her and she was green right

1020
01:06:59,639 --> 01:07:03,079
out of quick study night, really nice young gal, and

1021
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:06,239
she became not not a creative director, but the head

1022
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:08,840
of the art department, sort of ad hoc because when

1023
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:12,039
I left there was she was really the next person.

1024
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:16,519
She was still in the process of learning on the job,

1025
01:07:16,679 --> 01:07:21,239
but she took the mains and a few years later

1026
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:24,719
she called me back in the early nineties and she

1027
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:28,119
wanted me to kick around Well, I actually no, it's

1028
01:07:28,159 --> 01:07:30,880
even later than that. It was, Yeah, it was she

1029
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:36,000
wanted to kick around ideas for WrestleMania two thousand. This

1030
01:07:36,159 --> 01:07:39,559
is about a year in advance, and so they hired

1031
01:07:39,639 --> 01:07:41,599
me to just you know, they didn't use one of

1032
01:07:41,639 --> 01:07:44,840
my designs, but they hired me to just submit some

1033
01:07:45,079 --> 01:07:49,119
concepts and I got far and away from my own original.

1034
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:51,400
It was kind of funny. I went off on some

1035
01:07:51,599 --> 01:07:55,960
crazy tangents with it. Was like a Salvador DOLLI and

1036
01:07:56,599 --> 01:07:59,880
I went whack up. I had some fun with it,

1037
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:02,159
and they didn't do it. I mean they I think

1038
01:08:02,199 --> 01:08:04,920
they enjoyed them, but they just decided, let's just keep

1039
01:08:05,239 --> 01:08:09,519
mutating the same basic character forms. And I think that

1040
01:08:09,719 --> 01:08:13,920
was actually ultimately smart. I mean they, you know, they

1041
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:17,319
paid me for my concepts, and that that's fine. I wasn't.

1042
01:08:18,399 --> 01:08:22,399
You can't have an ego about this stuff. Just the gig,

1043
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:24,760
you know, and so you if you're a baseball player,

1044
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:27,439
you win games, you lose games, you keep playing. So

1045
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:30,119
I didn't. I didn't take offense to it or anything.

1046
01:08:30,159 --> 01:08:33,560
I just you know, but it was it was interesting.

1047
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:36,520
I had. I did have an opportunity to kind of

1048
01:08:38,039 --> 01:08:41,760
you know, direct it a few years later, but but

1049
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:44,520
I'm really kind of glad they didn't go with one

1050
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:47,159
of those, because they just sort of kept the main

1051
01:08:47,239 --> 01:08:50,359
theme and just kept tweaking it. So it's kind of cool.

1052
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:53,760
Speaker 5: Brian We started off the conversation talking about your impressions

1053
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:56,159
of Dick Ebersol pulling up in the Porsche, and n

1054
01:08:56,239 --> 01:08:58,640
Vince himself would drive some hot rods in his day,

1055
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:01,319
or at least cars that uh that zoom quite a bit.

1056
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:04,399
And I understand that you had a moment where Vince,

1057
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:06,119
I guess, was in a crunch and you got behind

1058
01:09:06,159 --> 01:09:08,279
the wheel of Vince's automobile. Can you tell us that

1059
01:09:08,359 --> 01:09:08,920
story quick?

1060
01:09:12,039 --> 01:09:15,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, well that wasn't That wasn't one of his really

1061
01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:19,039
crazier cars. He had some custom made roadsters that were

1062
01:09:19,079 --> 01:09:22,800
just outrageous. But this is this was before he got

1063
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:26,880
to that point. But yeah, this was as I recall,

1064
01:09:27,039 --> 01:09:34,640
this would have been fall of eighty four or spring

1065
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:39,640
of eighty five. I can't recall honestly, but basically, there

1066
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:44,239
was a a pre show taping, just the promos, the

1067
01:09:44,319 --> 01:09:46,359
build up where you know, the guys are shouting each

1068
01:09:46,399 --> 01:09:51,800
other off the planet, that kind of thing, and Hulk

1069
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:55,960
had been at the office. Vince decided to ride down

1070
01:09:56,600 --> 01:09:59,399
to the gardens with Hulk and his limo so they

1071
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:02,439
could chat up out some stuff. And he came off

1072
01:10:02,479 --> 01:10:05,800
and he said, would you mind driving my car in town?

1073
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:07,239
You just leave it at the guards and I'll have

1074
01:10:07,319 --> 01:10:09,399
a limo driver bring it, bring it back. And I

1075
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:13,359
said sure, and I got no big deal. And I

1076
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:16,159
had to drop something off in an ad agency that

1077
01:10:16,239 --> 01:10:21,199
we were working with in Midtown and he had this Lincoln.

1078
01:10:21,279 --> 01:10:24,760
He had this. I've never seen anything like it. It

1079
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:28,359
wasn't it wasn't a lime green. It wasn't dark British

1080
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:34,399
racing green. It was like this loud, like Irish spring,

1081
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:43,520
bright in your face, green, metallic and I I always

1082
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:47,680
draw at the time. I you know, a smaller car

1083
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:53,439
like my BMW, but you know, and I wasn't used

1084
01:10:53,479 --> 01:10:58,239
to driving a car like this. This is a big, big, wide,

1085
01:10:59,039 --> 01:11:02,880
long Lincoln. And uh it's okay. It was it was

1086
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:07,720
I thought would be fun. So I uh, I'm driving

1087
01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:10,319
on the West Side Highway. If anybody knows, you know

1088
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:12,920
you're you're getting in and out of New York. There's

1089
01:11:13,079 --> 01:11:15,840
there's basically two ways. You know, You're either on the

1090
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:18,600
east side or on the west side. I'm coming on

1091
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:22,760
the West Side Highway and he's got his headlights programmed

1092
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:25,479
to high beams keep people to get out of the way.

1093
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:27,520
I mean, the minute it sends, it's a car at

1094
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:30,600
a certain distance, it's beaming them and I'm feeling like,

1095
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:32,439
oh man, I must be one of those drivers that

1096
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:35,680
people hate, you know. And I'm trying to turn it

1097
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:38,000
off and I can't figure out how to turn it off,

1098
01:11:40,239 --> 01:11:42,359
and people are all moving over in the middle way

1099
01:11:42,359 --> 01:11:44,159
and I'm in the left lane and I'm like, okay,

1100
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:48,359
everyone thinks I'm obnoxious. I'm trying to not be obnoxious.

1101
01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:52,479
And anyway, so it's it was just a weird, weird

1102
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:56,840
ordeal and totally different feel. I mean, it's plush. It's

1103
01:11:56,840 --> 01:11:59,760
like driving a caddy or something that was weird. And

1104
01:12:01,159 --> 01:12:06,560
so I had to go into Midtown and you know,

1105
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:09,000
the traffic in midtown Manhattan, I mean, forget it. You

1106
01:12:09,079 --> 01:12:14,000
got the nerves of steel. And my wife jokes that,

1107
01:12:14,199 --> 01:12:17,760
you know, I'm I'm a camel driver. She calls me, like,

1108
01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:23,239
you know, typical uh, you know, yellow cab driver in

1109
01:12:23,279 --> 01:12:25,680
the city's honking and running everyone off there. I said,

1110
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:27,760
that's how you drive. You're a camel driver. And I said, no,

1111
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:31,279
I'm not. But anyway, I mean I was driving in

1112
01:12:31,359 --> 01:12:33,960
midtown that was not a problem and driving his car

1113
01:12:34,359 --> 01:12:37,520
once I got used to it, and for some reason

1114
01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:39,479
when I'm off the highway, it's not doing the high

1115
01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:42,159
being things. Thank god for that, because I didn't want

1116
01:12:42,319 --> 01:12:43,760
some guy to get out of his car and come

1117
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:47,359
back and you know, hit the glenshield with a wrench

1118
01:12:47,439 --> 01:12:50,439
or something. So I do what I have to do.

1119
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:52,760
I dropped this thing out at this agency. I had

1120
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:54,159
to go in a car park, get out of the

1121
01:12:54,199 --> 01:12:57,399
car park. And I'm in midtown Manhattan, and this is

1122
01:12:57,479 --> 01:13:01,279
the era. And some people who have not lived in

1123
01:13:01,359 --> 01:13:04,640
a city or may not even know what the term means,

1124
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:07,600
but this was the era of the squeegeye man.

1125
01:13:08,239 --> 01:13:10,079
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know.

1126
01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:14,560
Speaker 4: It's kind of a sad commentary on society. But you know,

1127
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:18,680
we have a huge homeless population and it's only gotten

1128
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:23,760
worse tragically. But the more enterprising of some homeless people,

1129
01:13:24,359 --> 01:13:27,399
if you could call it that, I call it piracy.

1130
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:34,239
But they would stand on a busy corner, get in

1131
01:13:34,319 --> 01:13:37,720
people's faces, get in their way, in front of the car,

1132
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:41,439
even when there's a green light, and make a big

1133
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:44,079
deal of wanting to clean their windshield, or they just

1134
01:13:44,199 --> 01:13:48,760
start cleaning their windshield without permission and demand payment, you know,

1135
01:13:49,199 --> 01:13:53,159
a buck, five bucks, whatever. Some people really made it

1136
01:13:53,279 --> 01:13:56,520
worse because they fed the situation and they were pussies

1137
01:13:56,560 --> 01:13:59,560
about it, and they just succumbed, roll down the window

1138
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:01,680
and give the guy of five or ten or whatever

1139
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:03,800
then the wallet just to make him go away and

1140
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:06,119
don't don't even touch my winshell, just here's the money.

1141
01:14:06,159 --> 01:14:09,039
Go away. And that made it worse. That made him

1142
01:14:09,079 --> 01:14:11,920
come out of the woodwork like broaches. So you've got

1143
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:15,239
these squeegee guys all over the city, and some of

1144
01:14:15,319 --> 01:14:19,159
them got really militant, like the guy that accosted me.

1145
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:24,560
So I'm pulling up to the Avenue of America's, which

1146
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:27,079
I think is also six stave. It's either six or

1147
01:14:27,119 --> 01:14:31,760
seventh I can remember, but duel, Yeah, six Staves slash

1148
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:37,119
Avenue of America, same street, so's it's basically going northbound,

1149
01:14:37,279 --> 01:14:42,159
only it's one way, and I'm stopped at a light

1150
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:49,439
in the fifties and the cross streets, and I'm going

1151
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:51,960
towards the west side to go downtown a little bit

1152
01:14:52,079 --> 01:14:54,560
to drop the car off at the gardens for Vince.

1153
01:14:56,119 --> 01:15:00,840
And this squeegeye man probably the most enterprising of the

1154
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:04,279
wall to put it that way. A light's out of

1155
01:15:04,359 --> 01:15:08,439
nowhere and he's leaning over the front windshield and he

1156
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:12,079
has his spray cam with the cleaner and the squeegee

1157
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:15,239
gripped in one hand, and then the other hand he

1158
01:15:15,319 --> 01:15:20,479
has a can of orange spray paint. You could see

1159
01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:24,560
it all globbed up on the kno and he yells

1160
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:28,279
to me, what will it be? And I'm thinking to myself,

1161
01:15:29,119 --> 01:15:33,960
I am so screwed. I'm gonna wind up driving into

1162
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:37,319
the gardens and all the personnel there are just gonna

1163
01:15:37,319 --> 01:15:41,079
be laughing. Oh look here's Vince scar. That poor sucker's

1164
01:15:41,199 --> 01:15:44,039
got a lot of explaining to do because there's a big, like,

1165
01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:48,600
you know, spray painted orange blobble over the front or

1166
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:50,640
the hood or the wing shield or the door whatever.

1167
01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:53,000
I'm thinking, I am so screwed. What am I gonna do?

1168
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:57,800
And this guy's just like like hovering there, Well will

1169
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:01,640
it be? And so I showed him what it is

1170
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:04,439
gonna be. I did something I've never done in my

1171
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:06,520
life and I'll never do again. I can't believe I

1172
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:10,319
did it. Then I just very gently opened the door

1173
01:16:11,239 --> 01:16:14,159
and I could see the light it was. It went yellow,

1174
01:16:14,479 --> 01:16:16,479
and then I said, okay, this is my chance. And

1175
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:21,880
the traffic down Avenue of Americas was light. I opened

1176
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:23,680
the door and I just bumped the guy and he

1177
01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:25,600
fell backwards and the light.

1178
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:30,039
Speaker 5: Oh my god, wow, in Vince's car opted and.

1179
01:16:30,159 --> 01:16:33,039
Speaker 4: See me, I'm praying somebody wouldn't come, you know, trying

1180
01:16:33,079 --> 01:16:35,600
to make the light from the other direction and broadside me.

1181
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:39,159
I'm just like, none of that matters. I'm not going

1182
01:16:39,239 --> 01:16:42,960
to explain this to Vince and why his beloved Lincoln his.

1183
01:16:43,399 --> 01:16:45,039
Speaker 2: Orange of course, yeah, of course.

1184
01:16:46,239 --> 01:16:48,880
Speaker 4: And oh my god, that was the worst day in

1185
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:51,560
Manhattan I think I've ever had. And I've had some doozies,

1186
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:52,680
but that was scary.

1187
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:56,680
Speaker 5: Wow. That's uh, that's being an enlisted soldier for more

1188
01:16:56,760 --> 01:16:59,159
than you signed up for. But that's that's kind of

1189
01:16:59,199 --> 01:17:01,199
the world you joined, and especially back then when you

1190
01:17:01,239 --> 01:17:02,800
went to work for Vince. I mean, he's you know,

1191
01:17:03,159 --> 01:17:05,039
it's whatever gets to be done at this moment. And

1192
01:17:05,359 --> 01:17:07,720
it kind of brings us to where we need to

1193
01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:09,640
end up here, Brian, because you've made a couple of

1194
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:12,119
references to the end of your tenure. You know, it's

1195
01:17:12,159 --> 01:17:15,680
basically eighty four to eighty seven, and let's conclude with

1196
01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:18,640
why you decided to leave the WWF.

1197
01:17:19,439 --> 01:17:25,199
Speaker 4: Why and when, Well, it's kind of multifaceted. But you know,

1198
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:31,319
it's funny. I had a lot going on and that

1199
01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:35,319
job was all consuming, but even so I kept my

1200
01:17:35,439 --> 01:17:37,520
other accounts on the side that i'd had. I was

1201
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:41,880
still working with Infinity and Howard Stern and I somehow,

1202
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:45,439
I mean, I was a workaholic, so I never really

1203
01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:47,920
drew the line between the two. But as long as

1204
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:51,279
the WWF deadlines were done, I was back on my

1205
01:17:51,319 --> 01:17:57,359
own accounts, which was mostly broadcasting related, and I just thought,

1206
01:17:57,479 --> 01:18:00,880
you know, there there were a couple of things going

1207
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:09,399
on that I just I don't know, not to be

1208
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:12,720
overly moral about it, but you know, you remember the

1209
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:18,840
foam hand, the big the Indix finger up experimented for

1210
01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:21,119
a while with that with a foam hand that's flipping

1211
01:18:21,159 --> 01:18:25,720
it off. And I saw a show, you know, these

1212
01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:29,920
little kids, seven eight year old kids. Daddy gave me

1213
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:32,279
a foam hand. I mean, bad taste as a parent.

1214
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:34,960
You buy one of those flip off hands and your

1215
01:18:35,039 --> 01:18:39,319
kids wearing it, and it just it really galled me

1216
01:18:39,399 --> 01:18:43,600
because that was stopping being family entertainment. I just was

1217
01:18:44,279 --> 01:18:48,920
a departure from the norm. They didn't need. It just

1218
01:18:49,039 --> 01:18:51,520
kind of bugged me and I don't know that that

1219
01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:57,319
had Vince's stamp of approval on it at all. That's

1220
01:18:57,399 --> 01:19:01,479
not what I'm saying. But there was a loose about it,

1221
01:19:02,239 --> 01:19:06,159
and there was some other things. I don't really want

1222
01:19:06,199 --> 01:19:09,840
to go in a great detail really at all, but

1223
01:19:10,039 --> 01:19:14,119
I mean there there was. They're not not across the

1224
01:19:14,239 --> 01:19:17,560
boards by any stretch of the imagination, but there were

1225
01:19:18,039 --> 01:19:21,199
instances of some substance abuse.

1226
01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:21,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1227
01:19:22,039 --> 01:19:25,279
Speaker 5: Well eighty seven is when they instituted the cocaine testing

1228
01:19:25,399 --> 01:19:28,319
because Iron Cheek and Joe Duggan got caught in that

1229
01:19:28,359 --> 01:19:30,960
traffic stop. So this is kind of the beginning of them,

1230
01:19:31,079 --> 01:19:33,520
you know, realizing that we actually have to monitor this

1231
01:19:33,800 --> 01:19:35,880
aspect of of what we do here.

1232
01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:40,640
Speaker 4: But you know, I just I I had essentially always

1233
01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:43,760
worked for myself. I was We'd worked out a deal

1234
01:19:44,159 --> 01:19:52,399
where I was a contract worker. I was not considered

1235
01:19:52,439 --> 01:19:55,520
an employee. I didn't I didn't have taxes withdrawn. I

1236
01:19:55,720 --> 01:19:59,880
was still self employed. I was. I was just base

1237
01:20:01,399 --> 01:20:04,600
a consultant, and even though I was really working full time,

1238
01:20:06,159 --> 01:20:08,840
so I was free to do what I wanted. I

1239
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:11,600
didn't have an employment contract that I would be violating.

1240
01:20:12,279 --> 01:20:15,279
I just missed being my own man. I mean, even

1241
01:20:15,359 --> 01:20:18,239
though technically I was, but I was married at that place.

1242
01:20:18,319 --> 01:20:21,279
It was all consuming and I enjoyed it, don't get

1243
01:20:21,319 --> 01:20:23,640
me wrong, but I just yeah, I just had a

1244
01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:26,720
kind of wanderlust that I knew. Infinity was going a

1245
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:30,840
mile a minute and eventually became part of it was

1246
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:35,359
actually the bigger part of CBS Radio when CBS acquired them,

1247
01:20:36,039 --> 01:20:40,199
and then they were swallowed by Viacoms. It was CBS

1248
01:20:40,359 --> 01:20:45,279
slash Infinity slash Viacom, and thankfully I was invited along

1249
01:20:45,359 --> 01:20:48,239
for the ride. I kept working for those companies and

1250
01:20:48,359 --> 01:20:52,199
that was huge, and that was and along the way

1251
01:20:52,279 --> 01:20:55,319
after that, I designed the style guide for Sonic, the

1252
01:20:55,399 --> 01:21:00,640
Hedgehog and the Buckles and that that that. So I've

1253
01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:03,800
had a big hand in the gaming world with that stuff.

1254
01:21:04,439 --> 01:21:07,159
And that never would have happened if I hadn't freedom

1255
01:21:07,239 --> 01:21:09,479
my time, and I just decided, you know, it's time

1256
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:13,800
to move on. And I had some differences with Vince.

1257
01:21:14,159 --> 01:21:17,359
You know, he's a funny guy. He would sometimes he

1258
01:21:17,399 --> 01:21:19,880
would just put you on the spot and say something

1259
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:24,880
that was a little derogatory or you know, he had

1260
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:28,720
sort of juvenile humor side to it. Sometimes he was

1261
01:21:28,840 --> 01:21:32,159
usually okay, but sometimes he would just make a dig

1262
01:21:32,479 --> 01:21:35,800
or totally uncalled for a comment, to just see how

1263
01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:39,600
you react, and really pushed my button one time. I

1264
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:41,840
just wanted to just say shove it and walk out

1265
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:43,920
the door. But when you have a four hundred pound

1266
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:49,000
custom made drawing board you walk out the door and

1267
01:21:49,119 --> 01:21:51,800
a ton of computer equipment. So I said, yeah, I

1268
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:55,000
just I bit my lip. But then I decided a

1269
01:21:55,039 --> 01:21:59,239
couple of weeks later, I said, you know, it's always risky.

1270
01:21:59,359 --> 01:22:01,640
I'm not gonna I'm not going to have the cushy

1271
01:22:03,359 --> 01:22:06,640
guarantee that I that I have what they're paying me here,

1272
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:08,920
but I'm going to take a flyer and go back

1273
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:11,520
on my own. And I did, all right. I worked

1274
01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:15,960
my tail off, and that's been my nature all along.

1275
01:22:16,079 --> 01:22:18,800
But I went back out on my own, and all

1276
01:22:18,920 --> 01:22:23,279
kinds of things happened. This stuff I just mentioned, and

1277
01:22:23,359 --> 01:22:26,680
some other opportunities I wouldn't have got if I if

1278
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:31,159
I had been breathing that, you know, twenty four to seven,

1279
01:22:31,319 --> 01:22:33,079
living and breathing it the way I had been for

1280
01:22:33,239 --> 01:22:38,279
four years. And I enjoyed it. And Vince was very upset.

1281
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:41,720
He was just, oh boy, you know, he he hires

1282
01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:45,680
you for life. That's that's uh. You know, he really

1283
01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:49,039
wants to feel that, you know, you've joined a family,

1284
01:22:49,199 --> 01:22:52,720
and I did feel that bond and I respected it.

1285
01:22:53,960 --> 01:22:57,840
But I'm just I just had the drive to want

1286
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:03,039
to go back and be you know, you know, responsible

1287
01:23:03,079 --> 01:23:07,199
for my own everything. And Linda was very, very gracious,

1288
01:23:07,359 --> 01:23:12,680
very She's a great lady, very professional, and no hard

1289
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:17,119
feelings there. And she actually soon thereafter I got married,

1290
01:23:19,399 --> 01:23:23,359
she invited my wife and I down for a party

1291
01:23:23,439 --> 01:23:26,840
they gave. They built this phenomenally. I mean, it was

1292
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:29,560
just you can't even call it in the state. It

1293
01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:31,960
was like a country club that was turned into a house.

1294
01:23:32,039 --> 01:23:36,119
It was just amazing, and they invited us down to

1295
01:23:36,199 --> 01:23:38,520
this party and it was like a black tie thing.

1296
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:44,119
It was a big deal. And Vince just he kind

1297
01:23:44,159 --> 01:23:47,840
of glanced my way. You know, we never spoke. I

1298
01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:51,199
just think he just never let me off the hook.

1299
01:23:51,239 --> 01:23:53,359
He couldn't forgive the fact that I wanted to do

1300
01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:56,840
my own thing again. And it's unfortunate, but you know,

1301
01:23:57,039 --> 01:24:00,960
I stayed friends with everyone there. I made some wonderful

1302
01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:05,119
friends there, and life goes on. You know, you can't

1303
01:24:05,119 --> 01:24:05,760
win them all, but.

1304
01:24:07,039 --> 01:24:10,359
Speaker 5: So well, I think what's fascinating about your vantage point, Brian,

1305
01:24:11,239 --> 01:24:13,720
is that you came to work for them when they

1306
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:16,439
were or at least you became acquainted with them when

1307
01:24:16,479 --> 01:24:19,800
they were fledgling in the Cape, right and just trying

1308
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:22,039
to see if they could make something of themselves. And

1309
01:24:22,479 --> 01:24:25,319
then on the other side, you leave no less than

1310
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:27,720
you know, ten years after you first met them. And

1311
01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:31,640
this Vince is just he's in a position to command

1312
01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:33,880
lifelong loyalty, or at least in his mind he is,

1313
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:36,600
from his employees. So you must have left a slightly

1314
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:40,119
different Vince than you met having those cocktails in the seventies.

1315
01:24:41,000 --> 01:24:46,840
Speaker 4: You know. Interestingly, Vince had had a tough relationship with

1316
01:24:46,920 --> 01:24:50,840
his dad. They were I think close in a blood way,

1317
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:53,479
but they didn't see eye to eye about business. And

1318
01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:57,920
Vince really thought his dad was weed to the old

1319
01:24:58,039 --> 01:25:00,760
world as far as wrestling goes, and he stayed away

1320
01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:02,960
from it for a while. He went into construction. He

1321
01:25:03,039 --> 01:25:08,760
had a construction company and it failed, not once, not twice,

1322
01:25:09,840 --> 01:25:14,119
but he had to, you know, file a third time

1323
01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:17,319
because the business just didn't work out.

1324
01:25:17,439 --> 01:25:19,720
Speaker 5: That came up during Linda's Senate campaign that she had

1325
01:25:19,760 --> 01:25:20,680
bankruptcies in the past.

1326
01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:24,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Linda put her foot down and she said, look,

1327
01:25:26,279 --> 01:25:30,159
I know you want to be creative. Construction isn't your thing.

1328
01:25:31,359 --> 01:25:34,600
Go to your dad, work with your dad, work it out,

1329
01:25:34,840 --> 01:25:37,720
take a hand. And she didn't say take it over.

1330
01:25:37,800 --> 01:25:41,640
But that's what he wound up doing very effectively, of course,

1331
01:25:41,880 --> 01:25:47,600
and he worked things out and he, you know, his

1332
01:25:48,199 --> 01:25:52,960
vision for things like WrestleMania was sort of the manifest

1333
01:25:53,159 --> 01:25:56,720
destiny that he's offered the whole thing from the very outset,

1334
01:25:57,359 --> 01:26:01,119
and his dad wasn't easily giving up reins. His father

1335
01:26:01,359 --> 01:26:05,840
was all about the small venues down south, the beer halls,

1336
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:10,359
the classic old you know in the shadows, wrestling, the guys,

1337
01:26:10,479 --> 01:26:13,760
gigging themselves, the whole bit. And Vince just said, it's

1338
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:16,439
a bigger world than that and we can take advantage

1339
01:26:16,479 --> 01:26:19,119
of it. And his dad just didn't quite see it

1340
01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:25,079
the way Vince did. And Linda, very brilliantly, I think

1341
01:26:26,359 --> 01:26:28,880
is the reason that Vince succeeded so well, because she

1342
01:26:29,039 --> 01:26:32,520
just said, don't ever sign another check. That's where we

1343
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:35,960
got in trouble. Leave the books to me. I will

1344
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:39,600
take care of the books. She hired Bob McMullen, and

1345
01:26:39,840 --> 01:26:47,279
everything changed, Everything changed, and She really really strategized the

1346
01:26:47,600 --> 01:26:51,439
the you know, the greedy details of the business details.

1347
01:26:51,520 --> 01:26:57,279
Not Vince. He had the creative hand, he had the

1348
01:26:57,720 --> 01:27:00,600
eye for what would work creatively, and I give them

1349
01:27:00,640 --> 01:27:04,800
credit for that, but what really put things to the

1350
01:27:04,960 --> 01:27:09,960
test and made them work financially was Linda's oversight. So

1351
01:27:10,079 --> 01:27:12,239
in that sense, they're a great pairing.

1352
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:18,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's that's great color. And we can sort of

1353
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:22,520
see the evolution of Vince through while a brief tenure

1354
01:27:23,119 --> 01:27:25,039
in terms of working for them, relatively speaking, I'm sure

1355
01:27:25,039 --> 01:27:27,199
it felt like a lifetime. But before that, even knowing

1356
01:27:27,239 --> 01:27:30,159
them before, they had become these impresarios, Vince in particular,

1357
01:27:30,239 --> 01:27:32,600
it's just such a great and rare perspective to find.

1358
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:35,039
So it sounds like you've been busy, Brian, Just tell

1359
01:27:35,079 --> 01:27:37,279
our listeners before we part here, what else you've been

1360
01:27:37,359 --> 01:27:37,800
up to lately?

1361
01:27:39,960 --> 01:27:42,159
Speaker 4: Well, haven't I been up to? Later?

1362
01:27:42,960 --> 01:27:44,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, narrowed down as much as you sy fit.

1363
01:27:45,680 --> 01:27:49,920
Speaker 4: You know, way back in the seventies when I started

1364
01:27:49,960 --> 01:27:54,600
in graphic design, I had my eye back then on music,

1365
01:27:54,800 --> 01:28:00,520
and music was was really what I care about and

1366
01:28:00,640 --> 01:28:05,680
love intensely, and I've never really had meaningful successful that

1367
01:28:05,720 --> 01:28:09,760
I used to sing voiceovers for McDonald's The Back of

1368
01:28:09,840 --> 01:28:16,359
my I met a few major artists along the way.

1369
01:28:16,359 --> 01:28:20,039
You have been very helpful to me. I left that

1370
01:28:20,159 --> 01:28:22,920
alone for a long time, and you know, so workwise

1371
01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:25,800
these days, I'm still doing logos. I do a lot

1372
01:28:25,840 --> 01:28:31,439
of web development, but I'm back recording songs of my

1373
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:35,880
own composition, music and lyrics. And for anyone who's a

1374
01:28:36,560 --> 01:28:38,640
music fan wants to check them out, just go to

1375
01:28:38,760 --> 01:28:41,960
my name Brianpenry dot com and that's my music. So

1376
01:28:43,039 --> 01:28:46,880
I work with a company based in London that specializes

1377
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:50,199
in sync licensing, which is music for TV and film,

1378
01:28:50,520 --> 01:28:55,840
and they're representing me to companies like Netflix and HBO

1379
01:28:56,279 --> 01:29:01,319
to create soundtracks and theme music for for shows and

1380
01:29:01,439 --> 01:29:04,479
that that's what I'm I'm trying to do and nothing's

1381
01:29:05,159 --> 01:29:11,520
really resulted of any mentioned. Yeah, that's that's meaningful in

1382
01:29:11,640 --> 01:29:13,960
terms of the kind of stuff I worked on graphically,

1383
01:29:14,119 --> 01:29:18,600
but I'm but I'm trying excellent. So yeah, that's what

1384
01:29:18,760 --> 01:29:22,079
life's all about now. And I raised two wonderful kids

1385
01:29:22,359 --> 01:29:26,119
who are I can't call them kids anymore. There the

1386
01:29:26,399 --> 01:29:31,039
early thirties and I just it's like, wow, I still

1387
01:29:31,079 --> 01:29:34,600
think of them when they were old tadpoles and I

1388
01:29:34,920 --> 01:29:39,359
just left it YEF so life's good, life is good.

1389
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:42,319
Speaker 5: Trying to make an imprint and some other verticals, but

1390
01:29:42,359 --> 01:29:45,319
he definitely left his imprint on wrestling by virtue of

1391
01:29:45,359 --> 01:29:47,399
the time he came along with the WWF. So it's

1392
01:29:47,399 --> 01:29:49,439
been a pleasure to welcome Brian penry On, the designer

1393
01:29:49,479 --> 01:29:52,319
of the WWF logo that we all cherish, the WrestleMania logo,

1394
01:29:52,359 --> 01:29:54,840
and as we talked about, so many more touch points.

1395
01:29:54,880 --> 01:29:58,640
You do want to be reminded that Brian will be

1396
01:29:58,680 --> 01:30:01,720
in attendance at the Connecticut gamer Con coming up at

1397
01:30:01,760 --> 01:30:05,199
the Mohegan Sun Casino on Saturday and Sunday, March fifteenth

1398
01:30:05,279 --> 01:30:07,920
and sixteenth. Find his own booth in the artist's alley.

1399
01:30:08,399 --> 01:30:10,960
He'll have signed and numbered limited edition prints of the

1400
01:30:11,039 --> 01:30:13,960
original WrestleMania logo. Very cool.

1401
01:30:15,520 --> 01:30:17,840
Speaker 4: I'd like to thank you gentlemen for having me on.

1402
01:30:18,039 --> 01:30:22,119
I'd like to thank all your listeners for being patient

1403
01:30:22,239 --> 01:30:25,439
through this long, never ending diet tribe.

1404
01:30:25,439 --> 01:30:28,920
Speaker 5: I've been sure, well, it's it's the full dump. That's

1405
01:30:29,119 --> 01:30:30,439
that's where that's where we come in.

1406
01:30:32,479 --> 01:30:33,319
Speaker 4: It's been a pleasure.

1407
01:30:33,399 --> 01:30:38,000
Speaker 5: Thank you, well, thank you so much. Brian, what is

1408
01:30:38,039 --> 01:30:40,279
a production of the LAP Entertainment Group.

1409
01:30:40,479 --> 01:30:44,600
Speaker 2: Its content is intended for reven use only really

1410
01:30:47,079 --> 01:30:47,279
Speaker 5: Want