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<v Speaker 1>In this episode, we take a look at three stories

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<v Speaker 1>all connected to the neat paper leak controversy. We talk

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<v Speaker 1>about the use of an anti riot gun during the

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<v Speaker 1>July twenty suns of March and what official records have

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<v Speaker 1>revealed about it. We also look at what the Delhi

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<v Speaker 1>government is proposing to do with protesters who have FIRS

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<v Speaker 1>registered against them. But first we discussed the new anti

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<v Speaker 1>cheating bill that was passed by the Looks of Her

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<v Speaker 1>this week. Hi, I am Ahrikananda and you are listening

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<v Speaker 1>to Three Things being an Express News show. After a

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<v Speaker 1>two day long debate, the Looks of Our earlier this

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<v Speaker 1>week passed the Public Examinations Prevention of Unfair Means Amendment

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<v Speaker 1>Bill twenty twenty six. The bill expands on the twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty four anti cheating law, which sought to curb unfair

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<v Speaker 1>practices and bring greater transparency, fairness and credibility to India's

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<v Speaker 1>public examination system. However, the bill's passage was accompanied by

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<v Speaker 1>sharp exchanges between the center and the opposition. While the

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<v Speaker 1>government described the bill as a milestone legislation in the

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<v Speaker 1>history of Indian parliament, the opposition said the paper leagues

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<v Speaker 1>had continued even after the twenty twenty four law, raising

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<v Speaker 1>questions about its effectiveness.

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<v Speaker 2>Those all peles of Krajo High Committee, those all High Committee.

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<v Speaker 2>Can the sarkark direction make High Committee money Kerada question

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<v Speaker 2>of former isrokchairman Akara. So those areas are q paper Leakua.

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<v Speaker 1>So to learn more about the bill, it's key provisions

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<v Speaker 1>and the concerns raised by the opposition, we speak to

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<v Speaker 1>the Indian Expresses Vikas Park in this segment the cas

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<v Speaker 1>Can you begin by talking about the provisions of this

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<v Speaker 1>new bill and what does it seek to achieve?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So the new bill is an improvement on a

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<v Speaker 3>twenty twenty four bill which was meant to cub malpractices

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<v Speaker 3>and examination systems. So what they've done is that they

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<v Speaker 3>have amended the original bill and made the provisions more springent.

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<v Speaker 3>So basically, if we go by the core provisions of

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<v Speaker 3>the bill, one change that one sees is that earlier,

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<v Speaker 3>if an individual was caught, you know, engaging in exam

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<v Speaker 3>malpractice or leaking papers, then you know, the fine was

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<v Speaker 3>up to Rupee ten lac and imprisonment of three to

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<v Speaker 3>five years. Now they have enhanced it to five to

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<v Speaker 3>ten years imprisonment and a fine up to rupee fifty lacks.

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<v Speaker 3>Now the second category is service providers, so if service

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<v Speaker 3>providers are also involved in such offenses, the maximum fine

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<v Speaker 3>has been increased from one crore to five crore and

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<v Speaker 3>they'll be debarred from conducting public examinations for eight years.

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<v Speaker 3>Earlier it was four years. The third thing is organized crime.

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<v Speaker 3>If there's an organized crime network involved in paper leaks,

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<v Speaker 3>then you know there'll be seven to ten years imprisonment.

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<v Speaker 3>Earlier it was five to ten and the fine can

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<v Speaker 3>be up to rupee ten crore. Earlier it was one crore.

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<v Speaker 3>So basically they have made all the provisions more stringent.

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<v Speaker 1>Right and what steps has the government taken since this

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<v Speaker 1>year's Need Paper league to address the issue.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so basically they took multiple steps. One was that

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<v Speaker 3>the Higher Education Secretary was shunted out. Then the government

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<v Speaker 3>said that forty seven people had been terminated from National

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<v Speaker 3>Testing Agency. However, they have not shared any details. It

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<v Speaker 3>was also asked in parliament. You know that details should

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<v Speaker 3>be shared. It was asked by gor Gogoi in Luksabah,

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<v Speaker 3>but the details have not been shared. They have just

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<v Speaker 3>said that forty seven people have been terminated that a part.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, the Prime Minister also announced a task force

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<v Speaker 3>under Nanda Nilkeni to kind of you know, reform the

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<v Speaker 3>examination system. And after that, of course, there was the

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<v Speaker 3>resignation of Pavana's Education minister.

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<v Speaker 1>And because even so the bill has been passed in

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<v Speaker 1>the looks ofha, there was a lot of back and

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<v Speaker 1>forth between the Center and the opposition regarding it. What

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<v Speaker 1>concerns were shared by the opposition, What questions were they asking.

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<v Speaker 3>So, yeah, the opposition has been saying that this might

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<v Speaker 3>just be eyewashed because they say that they were two

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<v Speaker 3>clear neat paper leaks, you know, that have happened despite

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<v Speaker 3>the lobbying in place. In fact, I think that there

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<v Speaker 3>was an error in some of the opposition leader's statements

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<v Speaker 3>there because actually the bill was passed in February twenty

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<v Speaker 3>twenty four, so both the neat leaks, not just one,

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<v Speaker 3>have happened after the law was in place. So they

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<v Speaker 3>were just saying that how will the law itself curbit

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<v Speaker 3>That was a question that you know, the opposition people

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<v Speaker 3>were asking, and of course there's no clear answer for it.

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<v Speaker 3>Of course, one can say that you know, you have

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<v Speaker 3>a law against theft for murder and yet they happened.

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<v Speaker 3>But the question of the opposition was how do you

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<v Speaker 3>curb these exam paper leaks?

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<v Speaker 1>Right, and we understand that questions we were also raised

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<v Speaker 1>about how was treated in the parliament post his resignation,

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<v Speaker 1>can you tell us about that?

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<v Speaker 3>So basically, the next day after his resignation, when Thermain

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<v Speaker 3>Pradhan reached parliament, vjpmps you know, gardended him, made him

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<v Speaker 3>wear a turban and stuff like that, and of course

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<v Speaker 3>the opposition people who did at him. So the thing

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<v Speaker 3>is that the opposition was saying that if he has

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<v Speaker 3>been made to resign, obviously there was some problem. Otherwise,

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<v Speaker 3>why did you make him resign? And if he has resigned,

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<v Speaker 3>is it so great a thing? That said that he

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<v Speaker 3>was kind of felicitated by VJP members as if he

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<v Speaker 3>had won a war against Pakistan. So the opposition basically

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<v Speaker 3>was saying that if the minister has been made to

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<v Speaker 3>resign under pressure, under pressure of a movement of students

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<v Speaker 3>which spread across the country, not just in Deli, what

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<v Speaker 3>is the point of projecting it as some kind of

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<v Speaker 3>a great work that has been done by the education minister.

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<v Speaker 3>That was the question, And.

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<v Speaker 1>How did the Center respond to all these questions and allegations.

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<v Speaker 3>So, of course, when Raoul Gandhi was trying to raise

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<v Speaker 3>these issues, you know, he was asked to authenticate them,

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<v Speaker 3>which basically means that what evidence do you have? Do

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<v Speaker 3>you have a letter by the Home Minister to BGCRPF

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<v Speaker 3>for tele Police Commissioner that such and such action has

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<v Speaker 3>to be taken. Secondly, when Jitendrisingh was replying to the

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<v Speaker 3>debate on this bill, he also targeted Raoul Gandhi saying

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<v Speaker 3>that he had been very irresponsible in his use of language.

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<v Speaker 3>And he said that the leader of Opposition should know

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<v Speaker 3>that one firing orders are issued by a magistrate, they

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<v Speaker 3>are not issued by a minister. And secondly he said

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<v Speaker 3>that there was no firing, So basically by firing he

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<v Speaker 3>meant no bullets for fire. The charge, of course is

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<v Speaker 3>that of pellet comes.

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<v Speaker 2>J harper.

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<v Speaker 3>Go on parliamentary to and parliamentary expression, have.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, idiot.

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<v Speaker 1>So so, because now that this bill has been passed,

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<v Speaker 1>what can we expect in the upcoming days?

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<v Speaker 3>Now the bill will go to the other house, it

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<v Speaker 3>will be passed by the Raja Sava and will become law.

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<v Speaker 3>Via that law. The government will try to send out

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<v Speaker 3>a message to the youth of the country that we

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<v Speaker 3>have tried to our best to bring a very stringent flaw.

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<v Speaker 3>That is where the government has been saying that we

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<v Speaker 3>have made a very stringent flaw. In Factange the Thing

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<v Speaker 3>said while introducing the bill in his initial address that

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<v Speaker 3>this was the first government in independent India that had

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<v Speaker 3>actually tried to bring a law to kind of curb

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<v Speaker 3>examining malpractice and paper leagues. And he was saying that

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<v Speaker 3>this first happened in twenty twenty two, and now this

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<v Speaker 3>amendment was further improving the law. So the government will

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<v Speaker 3>keep saying that we made a law and therefore we

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<v Speaker 3>are taking action. We are not running away from accountability.

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<v Speaker 3>The opposition, of course will it has already done so,

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<v Speaker 3>will shift the whole narrative to the pellet guns being

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<v Speaker 3>fired on students and the Latin charge. And of course

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<v Speaker 3>once that is done, they'll also move on to the

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<v Speaker 3>Ram Temple donation theft. That is the strategy of the opposition.

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<v Speaker 3>But the opposition will continue to target the government over

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<v Speaker 3>the action against students.

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<v Speaker 1>Next, we returned to the cgp's Sunsetchalo March where new

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<v Speaker 1>official records have raised questions are the force used against protesters.

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<v Speaker 1>Official records have revealed that a Rapid Action Force personnel

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<v Speaker 1>fired an anti riot gun twice during the twentieth July March,

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<v Speaker 1>allegedly on the orders of a Deputy Commissioner of Police

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<v Speaker 1>rank officer. The records mentioned the use of non electrical shells,

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<v Speaker 1>electrical shells and tear gas shells during the crowd control operation.

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<v Speaker 1>This matters because at least three people who participated in

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<v Speaker 1>the protest sustained pellet injuries, including a del University student,

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<v Speaker 1>a our Gaun based worker and a journalist. One of

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<v Speaker 1>them is at risk of losing his eyesight, adding to

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<v Speaker 1>the political fallout. Leader of Opposition Rahul Gandhi also raised

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<v Speaker 1>the issue in the Looksaba earlier this week, questioning the

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<v Speaker 1>use of forced during the protest and seeking clarity from

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<v Speaker 1>the government on the circumstances under which such weapons were deployed.

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<v Speaker 5>So the whole minister authorized for shootings are hey put

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<v Speaker 5>pellets into the blood of our students.

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<v Speaker 1>So to understand what do the official records say and

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<v Speaker 1>what does this tell us about the handling of the

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<v Speaker 1>Sunset Challow March by CGP Michael League. Chasharma is joined

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<v Speaker 1>by the Indian Expresses Pragniesh who reported on the protests

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<v Speaker 1>for the paper Prugnish.

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<v Speaker 4>Until now, there have been conflicting claims about whether pellet

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<v Speaker 4>rounds were used during the sunset Challow March, So talk

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<v Speaker 4>about how do we read the new evidence that has

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<v Speaker 4>emerged recently.

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<v Speaker 5>So see the fact that the pellets were used has

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<v Speaker 5>been pretty clear for some time now. Initially, when some

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<v Speaker 5>of the victims had come forward with their tails of

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<v Speaker 5>whatever happened and the pellet injuries that they have and

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<v Speaker 5>their doctors confirmed the same, Dai Police had denied using

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<v Speaker 5>any pellet weapons, which technically is still right because Daily

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<v Speaker 5>Police doesn't possess any pellet weapons or as they are called,

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<v Speaker 5>the arg guns, the anti ride guns, which are used

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<v Speaker 5>to fire both pellet and tear gas shells. So the

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<v Speaker 5>initial allegation was that Daily Police had used them, which

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<v Speaker 5>they did not with their own two hands, if you

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<v Speaker 5>want to say that. But as soon as these victims

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<v Speaker 5>had come forward and stories were out everywhere, the CRPF

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<v Speaker 5>and one of its units called the RAF, the Rapid

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<v Speaker 5>Action Force, which is deployed during these riot like situations,

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<v Speaker 5>they had said that they would initiate an inquiry to

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<v Speaker 5>check whether any excessive force was used, So it was

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<v Speaker 5>kind of an admission from their site that pellets have

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<v Speaker 5>been used. One of the pictures that was being circulated

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<v Speaker 5>around and I think it was for the first time

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<v Speaker 5>published in our own paper, was where an RAF personnel

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<v Speaker 5>was seen carrying arg gun and he was firing with

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<v Speaker 5>it also, so that part was clear. The only thing

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<v Speaker 5>was where a daily police had any role in it.

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<v Speaker 5>Now what has emerged in the past forty eight hours

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<v Speaker 5>is that one of the RAF officers which allegedly fired

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<v Speaker 5>the pellet guns came to the Parliament Street police station

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<v Speaker 5>is after this such allow March which was on twentieth July,

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<v Speaker 5>and he came to the policetation on twenty second July

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<v Speaker 5>and he put a general Dairy entry there claiming that

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<v Speaker 5>he was ordered by an IPS officer from Deli Police

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<v Speaker 5>to fire those pellets and that he fired two rounds

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<v Speaker 5>of PP as it was mentioned in the dary entry

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<v Speaker 5>which stands for plastic pellets. So that was the first

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<v Speaker 5>proof of any sort of involvement of Daili Police in

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<v Speaker 5>the firing of pellets.

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<v Speaker 4>Right and for our listeners who may not be aware

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<v Speaker 4>of what an anti riot gun is. Could you explain

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<v Speaker 4>to us what this weapon is and how is it

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<v Speaker 4>different from a conventional pellet gun and also under what

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<v Speaker 4>circumstances is it supposed to be used.

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, So anti riode guns and pellet guns, both of

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<v Speaker 5>them can come under the category of non lethal weapons

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<v Speaker 5>which can be used in riote like situations to disperse

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<v Speaker 5>the crowd or control some unruly segments. So they have

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<v Speaker 5>the capacity to injure you like by using tear gas

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<v Speaker 5>or by using pellets, but they seldom have the capacity

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<v Speaker 5>to kill anyone. But the injuries that happen as seen

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<v Speaker 5>in this case also can lead to bodily impairments, loss

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<v Speaker 5>of vision if you know, struck near the eye, or

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<v Speaker 5>some kind of permanent deformation in the body if not

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<v Speaker 5>used in the right way. So anti write guns are

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<v Speaker 5>usually not used to fire pellets. They're mostly used to

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<v Speaker 5>fire tear gas shells. There are separate pellet guns to

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<v Speaker 5>fire pellets, but the argy gans have the capacity to

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<v Speaker 5>fire pellets. So if in a right like situation there

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<v Speaker 5>is a need to fire away pellets and the force

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<v Speaker 5>doesn't have the exact pellet gun to use it for

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<v Speaker 5>then they sometimes load rubber pellets or plastic pellets in

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<v Speaker 5>the anti rite gun and fire it from them.

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<v Speaker 4>Right and tritish. Well, police are dealing with the protest

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<v Speaker 4>that turns confrontational. What legal framework governs the use of force,

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<v Speaker 4>like who decides when officers can escalate from laties and

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<v Speaker 4>tear gas to weapons like anti ride gun.

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<v Speaker 5>So in these kinds of situations, in every zone, there

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<v Speaker 5>are officers who are deployed with whom there are units

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<v Speaker 5>which are following them. So it's usually in the hands

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<v Speaker 5>of a particular officer who has been given the responsibility

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<v Speaker 5>of a particular zone in a riot like situation to

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<v Speaker 5>take the call of whether a pellet should be fired

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<v Speaker 5>or what kind of force should be used against the writers. So,

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<v Speaker 5>for example, in this case, this IPS officer was deployed

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<v Speaker 5>in Zone one where the pellets were fired, and in

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<v Speaker 5>the Zone one he was the officer who was commanding

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<v Speaker 5>all the troops there, whether the policeman or the paramilitary,

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<v Speaker 5>so it was on him to decide what kind of

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<v Speaker 5>force has to be used. So it's like that every

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<v Speaker 5>zone has a commanding officer who takes this call and Putnish.

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<v Speaker 4>As you mentioned, we know that at least three people

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<v Speaker 4>were injured, so do we know about how these injuries occurred.

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<v Speaker 1>So we have.

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<v Speaker 5>Managed to speak to three people. One of them was

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<v Speaker 5>Sahilo Chab, one is Shard, and the third one who

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<v Speaker 5>doesn't wish to be named, is a journalist with the

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<v Speaker 5>Outlook magazine. So I think both I, Shad and Sahil

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<v Speaker 5>had very severe injuries. Shad still has some of the

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<v Speaker 5>pellets stuck in his body and there is a surgery

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<v Speaker 5>which has to be undertaken. And in the case of

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<v Speaker 5>Sahilo Chap, one of the pellets was stuck under his

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<v Speaker 5>right eye and the doctors have claimed that he might

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<v Speaker 5>only have one person chance of recovering any sort of

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<v Speaker 5>vision in his right eye. So, as I previously said,

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<v Speaker 5>these kinds of injuries can lead to impairment in bodily

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<v Speaker 5>functions if they are hit near eyes or joints. So

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<v Speaker 5>in Saia's case, I think it has been the most consequential,

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<v Speaker 5>as but doctors that he might have to live without

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<v Speaker 5>sight for the rest of his.

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<v Speaker 4>Life and punished. Earlier, you spoke of the general diary entry.

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<v Speaker 4>Could you help us understand what exactly it is and

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<v Speaker 4>why is an entry like this considered important evidence?

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<v Speaker 5>So if in a right like situation, you have used

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<v Speaker 5>any kind of weapons, lethal or non lethal, so there

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<v Speaker 5>is a record which the police has of how many

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<v Speaker 5>of these were handed out and how many of them

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<v Speaker 5>have returned. So when you hand out a certain number

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<v Speaker 5>of guns and a certain number of bullets or in

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<v Speaker 5>this case, certain number of pellets and some of them

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<v Speaker 5>don't come back to the markhana of police where all

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<v Speaker 5>of this is cap you have to give a record

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<v Speaker 5>of where it was used and how it was used.

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<v Speaker 5>So in this particular case, because pellets were used, because

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<v Speaker 5>tear gash shells was used, it's not something which officers

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<v Speaker 5>are you know. I mean, of course, officially they are

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<v Speaker 5>expected to do it exactly when they have used it.

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<v Speaker 5>But unofficially speaking, they can go and give a record

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<v Speaker 5>of it even a couple of days after the incident

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<v Speaker 5>has happened. So they're kind of expected to write it

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<v Speaker 5>down in a log book kind of a way. And

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<v Speaker 5>the role of general diary is here like used in

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<v Speaker 5>the same way though, even when some person comes to

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<v Speaker 5>the polictician to file a complain, one of the first

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<v Speaker 5>entries that is done is in general diary that this

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<v Speaker 5>this person came and there is this what is you

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<v Speaker 5>know the person told us. If the police are involved

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<v Speaker 5>in any encounter, the first entry they do is in

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<v Speaker 5>a general diary that this encounter happened, we fired these

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<v Speaker 5>many bullets. These many bullets were filed upon us. So

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<v Speaker 5>it's that sort of a thing. It's sort of a

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<v Speaker 5>logbook of whatever happened in a particular day.

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<v Speaker 4>But how common is the use of anti riod guns

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<v Speaker 4>in crowd control in India? Are they considered a routine

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<v Speaker 4>part of police and protests?

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<v Speaker 5>Using pellets is not a routine thing. The first time

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<v Speaker 5>it was used was in Kashmir when the paramilitary and

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<v Speaker 5>military there were trying to control the crowds. But that

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<v Speaker 5>is the severity of it, and that is the rarity

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<v Speaker 5>of it that it has to be used in a

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<v Speaker 5>super sensitive zone like Kashmir, and it's not something which

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<v Speaker 5>is regularly used in civilian areas during riot like situations.

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<v Speaker 5>But in this case it was used in Delhi. I

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<v Speaker 5>don't think there is any record past ten twenty years

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<v Speaker 5>of pellet guns being used to control a crowd, So

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<v Speaker 5>it's kind of a rare call today that's why there

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<v Speaker 5>is so much you know, who are around this whole

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<v Speaker 5>thing that how could police or the paramilitary execute an

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<v Speaker 5>order of firing pellets on civilians who are protesting?

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<v Speaker 4>Great and so plugnish at the moment, what investigations are

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<v Speaker 4>now underway see.

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<v Speaker 5>Officially speaking, again, the Home Ministry took cognitions of this issue.

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<v Speaker 5>There was a meeting of high level officers in the

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<v Speaker 5>police headquarters day before yesterday where this concerned hypas officer

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<v Speaker 5>was called upon and he was offered a chance to

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<v Speaker 5>give his side of things, and what he told the

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<v Speaker 5>meeting was that he was not standing at that particular

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<v Speaker 5>location when these shots were fired, and as per people

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<v Speaker 5>who were present in the meeting, he had his device's

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<v Speaker 5>location to prove that he was not there. Soon after,

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<v Speaker 5>it was also found that the RAF personnel who had

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<v Speaker 5>fired these shots was also not present in that zone

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<v Speaker 5>when these shots were exactly fired. So they're kind of

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<v Speaker 5>using these you know, small details to cover up this thing.

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<v Speaker 5>Home Ministry, unofficially speaking, is going to back the officer

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<v Speaker 5>in this case. They will use whatever means that is

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<v Speaker 5>necessary to support this officer and try to take the

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<v Speaker 5>investigation as slow as they could but as of now,

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<v Speaker 5>the version from this IPA's officer that has come is

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<v Speaker 5>that he was not present there and he was not

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<v Speaker 5>the one who had you know, ordered these shootings. So

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<v Speaker 5>it needs to be you know, still verified that whose

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<v Speaker 5>version is right, whether the general diary is right or

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<v Speaker 5>whether what the officer is saying right now is the

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<v Speaker 5>right vergin. One of the discrepancies that you know, they

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<v Speaker 5>found in this investigation was also the fact that why

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<v Speaker 5>did this array of personnel come two days after the

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<v Speaker 5>incident had happened and then logged himself in the book.

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<v Speaker 5>So this is the current status of the investigation as

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<v Speaker 5>of now.

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<v Speaker 1>And in the end we talk about what Deli government

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<v Speaker 1>is proposing to do with protesters who have FILS registered

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<v Speaker 1>against them. The Indian Expresses guid three money reported that

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<v Speaker 1>yesterday the Deli government approved the withdrawal of thirteen fils

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<v Speaker 1>registered in connection with the Cocora Junta Party or the

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<v Speaker 1>CGP protest at Juantramantha. It said no action will be

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<v Speaker 1>taken against those involved in the protests, but as per

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<v Speaker 1>the Supreme Court's mandate, the protection would not extend to

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<v Speaker 1>those with criminal antecedents. The Deli government further said that

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<v Speaker 1>it does not propose to take any further adverse action

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<v Speaker 1>against the individuals involved in the protests and the matters

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<v Speaker 1>shall be treated as closed without any future proceedings. On

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<v Speaker 1>this account. The three rites that the CGP had earlier

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<v Speaker 1>alleged a complete breach of the understanding reached with the

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<v Speaker 1>Center on July twenty five, pointing to the arrest of

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<v Speaker 1>hundreds of students in BGP ruled states, CGP spokesperson Ashutoshranka

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<v Speaker 1>had said that as by the agreement, all fils against

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<v Speaker 1>protesters should be immediately withdrawn, students should be released and

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<v Speaker 1>no fresh fils should be filed by the DLI Police,

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<v Speaker 1>Central Investigation Agencies or police in the BGP allied states.

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<v Speaker 1>If the needful isn't done, the CGP will be forced

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<v Speaker 1>to resume its protests. After this statement, the ruling BGP

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<v Speaker 1>governments in Bihar and Islam had confirmed that charges will

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<v Speaker 1>be dropped and protesters detained before six pm or the

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<v Speaker 1>twenty sixth of July will be released. You were listening

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<v Speaker 1>to Three Things by the Indian Express. Today's episode was

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<v Speaker 1>edited and mixed by Surish Babar and produced by Ichasharma

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<v Speaker 1>I Meherri Kananda. If you like the show, then do

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<v Speaker 1>subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. You can

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<v Speaker 1>about us. You can also tweet us at Express podcast

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<v Speaker 1>and write to us at podcasts at Indian Express dot

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