Speaker 1: In this episode, we take a look at three stories
Speaker 1: all connected to the neat paper leak controversy. We talk
Speaker 1: about the use of an anti riot gun during the
Speaker 1: July twenty suns of March and what official records have
Speaker 1: revealed about it. We also look at what the Delhi
Speaker 1: government is proposing to do with protesters who have FIRS
Speaker 1: registered against them. But first we discussed the new anti
Speaker 1: cheating bill that was passed by the Looks of Her
Speaker 1: this week. Hi, I am Ahrikananda and you are listening
Speaker 1: to Three Things being an Express News show. After a
Speaker 1: two day long debate, the Looks of Our earlier this
Speaker 1: week passed the Public Examinations Prevention of Unfair Means Amendment
Speaker 1: Bill twenty twenty six. The bill expands on the twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four anti cheating law, which sought to curb unfair
Speaker 1: practices and bring greater transparency, fairness and credibility to India's
Speaker 1: public examination system. However, the bill's passage was accompanied by
Speaker 1: sharp exchanges between the center and the opposition. While the
Speaker 1: government described the bill as a milestone legislation in the
Speaker 1: history of Indian parliament, the opposition said the paper leagues
Speaker 1: had continued even after the twenty twenty four law, raising
Speaker 1: questions about its effectiveness.
Speaker 2: Those all peles of Krajo High Committee, those all High Committee.
Speaker 2: Can the sarkark direction make High Committee money Kerada question
Speaker 2: of former isrokchairman Akara. So those areas are q paper Leakua.
Speaker 1: So to learn more about the bill, it's key provisions
Speaker 1: and the concerns raised by the opposition, we speak to
Speaker 1: the Indian Expresses Vikas Park in this segment the cas
Speaker 1: Can you begin by talking about the provisions of this
Speaker 1: new bill and what does it seek to achieve?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the new bill is an improvement on a
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four bill which was meant to cub malpractices
Speaker 3: and examination systems. So what they've done is that they
Speaker 3: have amended the original bill and made the provisions more springent.
Speaker 3: So basically, if we go by the core provisions of
Speaker 3: the bill, one change that one sees is that earlier,
Speaker 3: if an individual was caught, you know, engaging in exam
Speaker 3: malpractice or leaking papers, then you know, the fine was
Speaker 3: up to Rupee ten lac and imprisonment of three to
Speaker 3: five years. Now they have enhanced it to five to
Speaker 3: ten years imprisonment and a fine up to rupee fifty lacks.
Speaker 3: Now the second category is service providers, so if service
Speaker 3: providers are also involved in such offenses, the maximum fine
Speaker 3: has been increased from one crore to five crore and
Speaker 3: they'll be debarred from conducting public examinations for eight years.
Speaker 3: Earlier it was four years. The third thing is organized crime.
Speaker 3: If there's an organized crime network involved in paper leaks,
Speaker 3: then you know there'll be seven to ten years imprisonment.
Speaker 3: Earlier it was five to ten and the fine can
Speaker 3: be up to rupee ten crore. Earlier it was one crore.
Speaker 3: So basically they have made all the provisions more stringent.
Speaker 1: Right and what steps has the government taken since this
Speaker 1: year's Need Paper league to address the issue.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so basically they took multiple steps. One was that
Speaker 3: the Higher Education Secretary was shunted out. Then the government
Speaker 3: said that forty seven people had been terminated from National
Speaker 3: Testing Agency. However, they have not shared any details. It
Speaker 3: was also asked in parliament. You know that details should
Speaker 3: be shared. It was asked by gor Gogoi in Luksabah,
Speaker 3: but the details have not been shared. They have just
Speaker 3: said that forty seven people have been terminated that a part.
Speaker 3: You know, the Prime Minister also announced a task force
Speaker 3: under Nanda Nilkeni to kind of you know, reform the
Speaker 3: examination system. And after that, of course, there was the
Speaker 3: resignation of Pavana's Education minister.
Speaker 1: And because even so the bill has been passed in
Speaker 1: the looks ofha, there was a lot of back and
Speaker 1: forth between the Center and the opposition regarding it. What
Speaker 1: concerns were shared by the opposition, What questions were they asking.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, the opposition has been saying that this might
Speaker 3: just be eyewashed because they say that they were two
Speaker 3: clear neat paper leaks, you know, that have happened despite
Speaker 3: the lobbying in place. In fact, I think that there
Speaker 3: was an error in some of the opposition leader's statements
Speaker 3: there because actually the bill was passed in February twenty
Speaker 3: twenty four, so both the neat leaks, not just one,
Speaker 3: have happened after the law was in place. So they
Speaker 3: were just saying that how will the law itself curbit
Speaker 3: That was a question that you know, the opposition people
Speaker 3: were asking, and of course there's no clear answer for it.
Speaker 3: Of course, one can say that you know, you have
Speaker 3: a law against theft for murder and yet they happened.
Speaker 3: But the question of the opposition was how do you
Speaker 3: curb these exam paper leaks?
Speaker 1: Right, and we understand that questions we were also raised
Speaker 1: about how was treated in the parliament post his resignation,
Speaker 1: can you tell us about that?
Speaker 3: So basically, the next day after his resignation, when Thermain
Speaker 3: Pradhan reached parliament, vjpmps you know, gardended him, made him
Speaker 3: wear a turban and stuff like that, and of course
Speaker 3: the opposition people who did at him. So the thing
Speaker 3: is that the opposition was saying that if he has
Speaker 3: been made to resign, obviously there was some problem. Otherwise,
Speaker 3: why did you make him resign? And if he has resigned,
Speaker 3: is it so great a thing? That said that he
Speaker 3: was kind of felicitated by VJP members as if he
Speaker 3: had won a war against Pakistan. So the opposition basically
Speaker 3: was saying that if the minister has been made to
Speaker 3: resign under pressure, under pressure of a movement of students
Speaker 3: which spread across the country, not just in Deli, what
Speaker 3: is the point of projecting it as some kind of
Speaker 3: a great work that has been done by the education minister.
Speaker 3: That was the question, And.
Speaker 1: How did the Center respond to all these questions and allegations.
Speaker 3: So, of course, when Raoul Gandhi was trying to raise
Speaker 3: these issues, you know, he was asked to authenticate them,
Speaker 3: which basically means that what evidence do you have? Do
Speaker 3: you have a letter by the Home Minister to BGCRPF
Speaker 3: for tele Police Commissioner that such and such action has
Speaker 3: to be taken. Secondly, when Jitendrisingh was replying to the
Speaker 3: debate on this bill, he also targeted Raoul Gandhi saying
Speaker 3: that he had been very irresponsible in his use of language.
Speaker 3: And he said that the leader of Opposition should know
Speaker 3: that one firing orders are issued by a magistrate, they
Speaker 3: are not issued by a minister. And secondly he said
Speaker 3: that there was no firing, So basically by firing he
Speaker 3: meant no bullets for fire. The charge, of course is
Speaker 3: that of pellet comes.
Speaker 2: J harper.
Speaker 3: Go on parliamentary to and parliamentary expression, have.
Speaker 4: Yeah, idiot.
Speaker 1: So so, because now that this bill has been passed,
Speaker 1: what can we expect in the upcoming days?
Speaker 3: Now the bill will go to the other house, it
Speaker 3: will be passed by the Raja Sava and will become law.
Speaker 3: Via that law. The government will try to send out
Speaker 3: a message to the youth of the country that we
Speaker 3: have tried to our best to bring a very stringent flaw.
Speaker 3: That is where the government has been saying that we
Speaker 3: have made a very stringent flaw. In Factange the Thing
Speaker 3: said while introducing the bill in his initial address that
Speaker 3: this was the first government in independent India that had
Speaker 3: actually tried to bring a law to kind of curb
Speaker 3: examining malpractice and paper leagues. And he was saying that
Speaker 3: this first happened in twenty twenty two, and now this
Speaker 3: amendment was further improving the law. So the government will
Speaker 3: keep saying that we made a law and therefore we
Speaker 3: are taking action. We are not running away from accountability.
Speaker 3: The opposition, of course will it has already done so,
Speaker 3: will shift the whole narrative to the pellet guns being
Speaker 3: fired on students and the Latin charge. And of course
Speaker 3: once that is done, they'll also move on to the
Speaker 3: Ram Temple donation theft. That is the strategy of the opposition.
Speaker 3: But the opposition will continue to target the government over
Speaker 3: the action against students.
Speaker 1: Next, we returned to the cgp's Sunsetchalo March where new
Speaker 1: official records have raised questions are the force used against protesters.
Speaker 1: Official records have revealed that a Rapid Action Force personnel
Speaker 1: fired an anti riot gun twice during the twentieth July March,
Speaker 1: allegedly on the orders of a Deputy Commissioner of Police
Speaker 1: rank officer. The records mentioned the use of non electrical shells,
Speaker 1: electrical shells and tear gas shells during the crowd control operation.
Speaker 1: This matters because at least three people who participated in
Speaker 1: the protest sustained pellet injuries, including a del University student,
Speaker 1: a our Gaun based worker and a journalist. One of
Speaker 1: them is at risk of losing his eyesight, adding to
Speaker 1: the political fallout. Leader of Opposition Rahul Gandhi also raised
Speaker 1: the issue in the Looksaba earlier this week, questioning the
Speaker 1: use of forced during the protest and seeking clarity from
Speaker 1: the government on the circumstances under which such weapons were deployed.
Speaker 5: So the whole minister authorized for shootings are hey put
Speaker 5: pellets into the blood of our students.
Speaker 1: So to understand what do the official records say and
Speaker 1: what does this tell us about the handling of the
Speaker 1: Sunset Challow March by CGP Michael League. Chasharma is joined
Speaker 1: by the Indian Expresses Pragniesh who reported on the protests
Speaker 1: for the paper Prugnish.
Speaker 4: Until now, there have been conflicting claims about whether pellet
Speaker 4: rounds were used during the sunset Challow March, So talk
Speaker 4: about how do we read the new evidence that has
Speaker 4: emerged recently.
Speaker 5: So see the fact that the pellets were used has
Speaker 5: been pretty clear for some time now. Initially, when some
Speaker 5: of the victims had come forward with their tails of
Speaker 5: whatever happened and the pellet injuries that they have and
Speaker 5: their doctors confirmed the same, Dai Police had denied using
Speaker 5: any pellet weapons, which technically is still right because Daily
Speaker 5: Police doesn't possess any pellet weapons or as they are called,
Speaker 5: the arg guns, the anti ride guns, which are used
Speaker 5: to fire both pellet and tear gas shells. So the
Speaker 5: initial allegation was that Daily Police had used them, which
Speaker 5: they did not with their own two hands, if you
Speaker 5: want to say that. But as soon as these victims
Speaker 5: had come forward and stories were out everywhere, the CRPF
Speaker 5: and one of its units called the RAF, the Rapid
Speaker 5: Action Force, which is deployed during these riot like situations,
Speaker 5: they had said that they would initiate an inquiry to
Speaker 5: check whether any excessive force was used, So it was
Speaker 5: kind of an admission from their site that pellets have
Speaker 5: been used. One of the pictures that was being circulated
Speaker 5: around and I think it was for the first time
Speaker 5: published in our own paper, was where an RAF personnel
Speaker 5: was seen carrying arg gun and he was firing with
Speaker 5: it also, so that part was clear. The only thing
Speaker 5: was where a daily police had any role in it.
Speaker 5: Now what has emerged in the past forty eight hours
Speaker 5: is that one of the RAF officers which allegedly fired
Speaker 5: the pellet guns came to the Parliament Street police station
Speaker 5: is after this such allow March which was on twentieth July,
Speaker 5: and he came to the policetation on twenty second July
Speaker 5: and he put a general Dairy entry there claiming that
Speaker 5: he was ordered by an IPS officer from Deli Police
Speaker 5: to fire those pellets and that he fired two rounds
Speaker 5: of PP as it was mentioned in the dary entry
Speaker 5: which stands for plastic pellets. So that was the first
Speaker 5: proof of any sort of involvement of Daili Police in
Speaker 5: the firing of pellets.
Speaker 4: Right and for our listeners who may not be aware
Speaker 4: of what an anti riot gun is. Could you explain
Speaker 4: to us what this weapon is and how is it
Speaker 4: different from a conventional pellet gun and also under what
Speaker 4: circumstances is it supposed to be used.
Speaker 5: Okay, So anti riode guns and pellet guns, both of
Speaker 5: them can come under the category of non lethal weapons
Speaker 5: which can be used in riote like situations to disperse
Speaker 5: the crowd or control some unruly segments. So they have
Speaker 5: the capacity to injure you like by using tear gas
Speaker 5: or by using pellets, but they seldom have the capacity
Speaker 5: to kill anyone. But the injuries that happen as seen
Speaker 5: in this case also can lead to bodily impairments, loss
Speaker 5: of vision if you know, struck near the eye, or
Speaker 5: some kind of permanent deformation in the body if not
Speaker 5: used in the right way. So anti write guns are
Speaker 5: usually not used to fire pellets. They're mostly used to
Speaker 5: fire tear gas shells. There are separate pellet guns to
Speaker 5: fire pellets, but the argy gans have the capacity to
Speaker 5: fire pellets. So if in a right like situation there
Speaker 5: is a need to fire away pellets and the force
Speaker 5: doesn't have the exact pellet gun to use it for
Speaker 5: then they sometimes load rubber pellets or plastic pellets in
Speaker 5: the anti rite gun and fire it from them.
Speaker 4: Right and tritish. Well, police are dealing with the protest
Speaker 4: that turns confrontational. What legal framework governs the use of force,
Speaker 4: like who decides when officers can escalate from laties and
Speaker 4: tear gas to weapons like anti ride gun.
Speaker 5: So in these kinds of situations, in every zone, there
Speaker 5: are officers who are deployed with whom there are units
Speaker 5: which are following them. So it's usually in the hands
Speaker 5: of a particular officer who has been given the responsibility
Speaker 5: of a particular zone in a riot like situation to
Speaker 5: take the call of whether a pellet should be fired
Speaker 5: or what kind of force should be used against the writers. So,
Speaker 5: for example, in this case, this IPS officer was deployed
Speaker 5: in Zone one where the pellets were fired, and in
Speaker 5: the Zone one he was the officer who was commanding
Speaker 5: all the troops there, whether the policeman or the paramilitary,
Speaker 5: so it was on him to decide what kind of
Speaker 5: force has to be used. So it's like that every
Speaker 5: zone has a commanding officer who takes this call and Putnish.
Speaker 4: As you mentioned, we know that at least three people
Speaker 4: were injured, so do we know about how these injuries occurred.
Speaker 1: So we have.
Speaker 5: Managed to speak to three people. One of them was
Speaker 5: Sahilo Chab, one is Shard, and the third one who
Speaker 5: doesn't wish to be named, is a journalist with the
Speaker 5: Outlook magazine. So I think both I, Shad and Sahil
Speaker 5: had very severe injuries. Shad still has some of the
Speaker 5: pellets stuck in his body and there is a surgery
Speaker 5: which has to be undertaken. And in the case of
Speaker 5: Sahilo Chap, one of the pellets was stuck under his
Speaker 5: right eye and the doctors have claimed that he might
Speaker 5: only have one person chance of recovering any sort of
Speaker 5: vision in his right eye. So, as I previously said,
Speaker 5: these kinds of injuries can lead to impairment in bodily
Speaker 5: functions if they are hit near eyes or joints. So
Speaker 5: in Saia's case, I think it has been the most consequential,
Speaker 5: as but doctors that he might have to live without
Speaker 5: sight for the rest of his.
Speaker 4: Life and punished. Earlier, you spoke of the general diary entry.
Speaker 4: Could you help us understand what exactly it is and
Speaker 4: why is an entry like this considered important evidence?
Speaker 5: So if in a right like situation, you have used
Speaker 5: any kind of weapons, lethal or non lethal, so there
Speaker 5: is a record which the police has of how many
Speaker 5: of these were handed out and how many of them
Speaker 5: have returned. So when you hand out a certain number
Speaker 5: of guns and a certain number of bullets or in
Speaker 5: this case, certain number of pellets and some of them
Speaker 5: don't come back to the markhana of police where all
Speaker 5: of this is cap you have to give a record
Speaker 5: of where it was used and how it was used.
Speaker 5: So in this particular case, because pellets were used, because
Speaker 5: tear gash shells was used, it's not something which officers
Speaker 5: are you know. I mean, of course, officially they are
Speaker 5: expected to do it exactly when they have used it.
Speaker 5: But unofficially speaking, they can go and give a record
Speaker 5: of it even a couple of days after the incident
Speaker 5: has happened. So they're kind of expected to write it
Speaker 5: down in a log book kind of a way. And
Speaker 5: the role of general diary is here like used in
Speaker 5: the same way though, even when some person comes to
Speaker 5: the polictician to file a complain, one of the first
Speaker 5: entries that is done is in general diary that this
Speaker 5: this person came and there is this what is you
Speaker 5: know the person told us. If the police are involved
Speaker 5: in any encounter, the first entry they do is in
Speaker 5: a general diary that this encounter happened, we fired these
Speaker 5: many bullets. These many bullets were filed upon us. So
Speaker 5: it's that sort of a thing. It's sort of a
Speaker 5: logbook of whatever happened in a particular day.
Speaker 4: But how common is the use of anti riod guns
Speaker 4: in crowd control in India? Are they considered a routine
Speaker 4: part of police and protests?
Speaker 5: Using pellets is not a routine thing. The first time
Speaker 5: it was used was in Kashmir when the paramilitary and
Speaker 5: military there were trying to control the crowds. But that
Speaker 5: is the severity of it, and that is the rarity
Speaker 5: of it that it has to be used in a
Speaker 5: super sensitive zone like Kashmir, and it's not something which
Speaker 5: is regularly used in civilian areas during riot like situations.
Speaker 5: But in this case it was used in Delhi. I
Speaker 5: don't think there is any record past ten twenty years
Speaker 5: of pellet guns being used to control a crowd, So
Speaker 5: it's kind of a rare call today that's why there
Speaker 5: is so much you know, who are around this whole
Speaker 5: thing that how could police or the paramilitary execute an
Speaker 5: order of firing pellets on civilians who are protesting?
Speaker 4: Great and so plugnish at the moment, what investigations are
Speaker 4: now underway see.
Speaker 5: Officially speaking, again, the Home Ministry took cognitions of this issue.
Speaker 5: There was a meeting of high level officers in the
Speaker 5: police headquarters day before yesterday where this concerned hypas officer
Speaker 5: was called upon and he was offered a chance to
Speaker 5: give his side of things, and what he told the
Speaker 5: meeting was that he was not standing at that particular
Speaker 5: location when these shots were fired, and as per people
Speaker 5: who were present in the meeting, he had his device's
Speaker 5: location to prove that he was not there. Soon after,
Speaker 5: it was also found that the RAF personnel who had
Speaker 5: fired these shots was also not present in that zone
Speaker 5: when these shots were exactly fired. So they're kind of
Speaker 5: using these you know, small details to cover up this thing.
Speaker 5: Home Ministry, unofficially speaking, is going to back the officer
Speaker 5: in this case. They will use whatever means that is
Speaker 5: necessary to support this officer and try to take the
Speaker 5: investigation as slow as they could but as of now,
Speaker 5: the version from this IPA's officer that has come is
Speaker 5: that he was not present there and he was not
Speaker 5: the one who had you know, ordered these shootings. So
Speaker 5: it needs to be you know, still verified that whose
Speaker 5: version is right, whether the general diary is right or
Speaker 5: whether what the officer is saying right now is the
Speaker 5: right vergin. One of the discrepancies that you know, they
Speaker 5: found in this investigation was also the fact that why
Speaker 5: did this array of personnel come two days after the
Speaker 5: incident had happened and then logged himself in the book.
Speaker 5: So this is the current status of the investigation as
Speaker 5: of now.
Speaker 1: And in the end we talk about what Deli government
Speaker 1: is proposing to do with protesters who have FILS registered
Speaker 1: against them. The Indian Expresses guid three money reported that
Speaker 1: yesterday the Deli government approved the withdrawal of thirteen fils
Speaker 1: registered in connection with the Cocora Junta Party or the
Speaker 1: CGP protest at Juantramantha. It said no action will be
Speaker 1: taken against those involved in the protests, but as per
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court's mandate, the protection would not extend to
Speaker 1: those with criminal antecedents. The Deli government further said that
Speaker 1: it does not propose to take any further adverse action
Speaker 1: against the individuals involved in the protests and the matters
Speaker 1: shall be treated as closed without any future proceedings. On
Speaker 1: this account. The three rites that the CGP had earlier
Speaker 1: alleged a complete breach of the understanding reached with the
Speaker 1: Center on July twenty five, pointing to the arrest of
Speaker 1: hundreds of students in BGP ruled states, CGP spokesperson Ashutoshranka
Speaker 1: had said that as by the agreement, all fils against
Speaker 1: protesters should be immediately withdrawn, students should be released and
Speaker 1: no fresh fils should be filed by the DLI Police,
Speaker 1: Central Investigation Agencies or police in the BGP allied states.
Speaker 1: If the needful isn't done, the CGP will be forced
Speaker 1: to resume its protests. After this statement, the ruling BGP
Speaker 1: governments in Bihar and Islam had confirmed that charges will
Speaker 1: be dropped and protesters detained before six pm or the
Speaker 1: twenty sixth of July will be released. You were listening
Speaker 1: to Three Things by the Indian Express. Today's episode was
Speaker 1: edited and mixed by Surish Babar and produced by Ichasharma
Speaker 1: I Meherri Kananda. If you like the show, then do
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