Speaker 1: What is up, fellowsikos, I am Dan Favalley coming at
you with Guessed It another twenty twenty four twenty twenty
five NBA season look Ahead. We're onto the Oklahoma City Thunder,
so I got to be joined by the uncontesteds Taylor
Peterson and Jacob Niffen. We talk a lot about the Thunder.
I think this one ran over ninety minutes if I'm
not mistaken. We did, however, record it, which is why
I'm redoing the intro before the Kenrick Williams Wright knee
surgery news. He's now probably not going to be ready
for a training camp, so we got into a little
bit with him. I don't think it changes the overall
out look. It definitely doesn't change much of what we said.
And also we recorded it before the whole Chet excuse me,
Isaiah Hartenstein's trainer or whatever being in the IG comments
saying the plan is to start him and Chet together
next season. We'll see other chicks out or whether it's
more of a matchup thing. But found that fascinating, so
keep it in mind as you're listening to this. Also,
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the podcast and YouTube description. That is enough out of me, though.
Let's talk loads and loads about the forthcoming season for
the Oklahoma City Thunder. Taylor, Jacob, welcome back. You guys
are running it back consecutive years for the Oklahoma City
Founder look ahead. Nick is ducking the Hardware Knocks podcast.
I don't know what that's about, but thank you guys
so much for coming back. How oh now I have
to is the first three person look at it? We've done,
so I have to delegate. Let's start, Jacob, how are
you doing?
Speaker 2: I'm good man. We are in the dog days of
the NBA summer. I'm glad football is back, but there
is nothing to talk about the NBA so far. GG
Jackson's foot, maybe Evan Fourmier signing overseas. I need him
content so very glad to be here.
Speaker 1: Give me Jeddie Osmond's five best destinations in free agency.
Speaker 2: Still feel, oh my god, we're not doing that, brother Taylor,
how are you?
Speaker 3: It's already gonna be a two hour podcast, Dan, we
don't need to go through that. Doing really good, super
thankful for you having us back on. We can't wait
to return the favor, hopefully with you and Grant both.
And like Jacob said, it's exciting. You know, with football season,
it's always fun to have something to hold us over
until the NBA. But you inviting us on this show
just was a reminder that we're getting closer and closer
your training camps and this season officially starting, so we're
almost there.
Speaker 1: It's funny people keep saying that to me, and it's
actually not true because I'm so far ahead of schedule
with the rate at which I'm recording me is that
you actually have longer to go than you think before
the start of the NBA season. I hate to be
the bear. Maybe by the time this release is it'll
be so close. And that that's so. The Okac Thunder
did some stuff, but to reflect on last season a
little bit where Sam Presty lied to us, talked about
like maybe they might have already taken some wins from
the future and they end up being basically the second
best team in the league. When you look at how
last year unfolded relative to what then happened this offseason,
did that sort of align with your biggest takeaways from
last year or biggest concerns or just goals? Oh god,
I gotta do this, remember Taylor, let's start with you.
Speaker 3: No, okay, little inside baseball here. Jacob and I are
texting each other like we got to be concised and
we'll delegate if we need to. So Jacob was ready
to go, but no, I think for me and Jacob,
I can't wait to hear your thoughts as well. But
obviously we exceeded expectations, or for us, the Thunder exceeded
our expectations just being one of the youngest teams in
the league. If you look at the regular rotation players
their average age, they were the youngest amongst all players
all teams who had players playing. I guess this is
the way you would praise that and for them to
be able to come out and perform like they did.
I see those expectations. Just be the the first seed
in the Western Conference, which is I mean, this year
is going to be even crazier than it was. We'll
get into that, but in an incredibly competitive Western Conference.
They're the first seed in the West. They're the youngest
team to ever sweep and therefore also win a playoff series.
Uh and then obviously take the Dallas Mavericks and go
toe to toe with them and Luca who has the experience.
Like there was a lot of positives take away from
last season, we certainly didn't want to reflect too much
on the negatives. When we were doing some some postseason takeaways,
Jacob that a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're thinking, yeah, so, I mean, Dann when we
got to the end of the season last year, my
thought on the team, I think externally, people who don't
follow the Thunderrest closely would have said at the end
of last season, they need to go gett an Isaiah Hartenstein,
they need to get a big to play next to Chet,
they need to replace Searge. I think those types of
conversations were happening in large NBA circles. For me, I
originally looked at it as the missing piece is a
big wing who can play defense and shoot. There was
rumors at the beginning of the off season of a
guy like Patrick Williams from the Bulls, and those types
of ideas intrigued me because I believe the future of
this team is Chet Holger at the five. Did they
have rebounding issues, yes, obviously. Did they have some size issues, yes,
obviously that at the end of the season there ended
up being a little bit of a Josh Giddy issue,
which I wouldn't say is a Josh Giddy issue as
much as it was a Josh Giddy fit an Oklahoma
City issue for sure. But as the off season has
progressed and they've obviously secured Isaiah Hartenstein on this team,
Alex Caruso on this team, which, hey, representation matters, and
we now have a bald white guy on the Thunder
and I just I feel seen for one of the
first times in my NBA podcasting career. So uh, but
you look at kind of how how the team is built. Now.
Do I still wish they would have got a big wing, Yes,
but I think the avenue to do that, I know, but.
Speaker 3: Dan is another top five pick.
Speaker 2: The Clippers might hand it over there yet. What but
the the cost at which to get a big wing
in this current CBA, where I think trading large amounts
of future draft capital for a higher salaried player is
actually like a really bad plan for a team like
Oklahoma City. I kind of love what they did, and
I think they addressed issues in maybe a non conventional way.
Speaker 1: I would say that's fair. I think I would agree
with everything you said. It just seemed they checked most
of their biggest concerns without giving up a first round pick.
Is just like how you would nutshell their offseason, which
is like, let's just make this clear, that fucking bonkers
that this is the team that has a trillion pick
the didn't have to give up a single one to
get Alex Caruso or Isaiah Hartenstein. I want to ask you,
though I've been told they've been complaints that I dictate
too many of the terms of these podcasts. They've all
come from Grant, so it really shouldn't matter. But I've
decided so I'm gonna throw this to you, Jacob. What
is that It'll be interesting if you guys have different
answers here, But what is the biggest storyline you are
tracking for this team next season.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, that's a heavy and loaded question. There's so
many good answers here right, like do they play a
two big lineup? How do guys progress? What does the
closing lineup look like? I'm gonna go with my biggest storyline,
biggest development. I'm thing I'm watching next season is the
year one to year two check holmgun jump, because I
think that jump will be substantial. I wish I had
the article up. I do not, But the day that
they traded Josh Getty for Alex Caruso, Woja's ESPN article
included a line that talked about how opening up more
playmaking and ball handling opportunities on the team by trading
away Josh was something that appealed to the Thunder, especially
with Chet Holmgren. And I mentioned earlier that I think
Chet at the five is the future of this team,
and I don't want the listeners to get this twisted.
I am not saying Chet will be this player. I'm
not saying Chet will be this good Stylistically. I think
stylistically on offense, I think Chet Holmgren and Kevin Durant
are going to be very, very similar, and I think
that is the start of the jump. You will see
this year Chet with the ball in his hands, more
check playmaking, handling out on the perimeter and attacking off
the bounce check being the ball handler in a four
or five pick and roll with Isaiah Hartenstein. I see
a lot of Kd's style of game offensively in Chet Holmgren,
and I think you're gonna start to see that leap
in year two. I think the brother just ran out
of gas in year one. Honestly, what's the podcast? Yeah,
he said he was shooting laser beams at the front
of the rim, and if you go back and you
watch any film from the second half of the season,
it definitely looks like that. I think we.
Speaker 1: Don't watch games around here, so that's not gonna.
Speaker 2: Happy narratives only. I'm into it.
Speaker 3: So you've been told, right, My.
Speaker 2: My biggest thing I'm watching for next season it is
the year one to year two Chet Holmgren leap. Because
if you told me two maybe three seasons from now,
that this team stays intact, but Chet Holmgren is the
best player on the team with shake Gojess Alexander, I
wouldn't be shocked.
Speaker 1: At all, holy all right, Well, let's get into that
a little bit then, So what you kind of mentioned
what that could look like, but and not to if
you're gonna use Kevin Durant as the analog, if you're
trying to like sort of zero in on the type
of usage that we think will change from Chet Holmgrin,
Like if it's just like a shot typing corporates or
a play type you mentioned four or five pick and rolls.
I guess actually my first question, but do you actually
think that he has the handle or the ability to
develop the handle that would empower him to do all
of this stuff where it's like the stuff that Kevin
Durant can do with the ball in his hands. He's
not like, no, he's not Kyrie Irving or Steph Curry
with the ball, but like he can navigate traffic, I
would say, better than we've seen from Chet. Maybe that's
a matter of opportunity, But do you believe in the
handle to that degree where it's not just a matter
of creating for himself you're talking about initiating offense or
others at that point?
Speaker 2: Is he there now?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: Will he be there year two? Probably not? Can he
get there over the course of the next three to
four years, I think so. I think back to the
playoff series where the Thunder played the Los Angeles Clippers,
and the Clippers game plan was let Chris Paul guard
Kevin Durant. Doesn't matter that there's an eight inch height
difference there. Chris was able to get under the handle
because Kat's handle was so long from hand to floor
and a little bit looser, and Katie's really tightened that
handle up. I think it will be a process for chet.
I think he can get there, and I think that's
the style of play he wants to play and that
the Thunder want him to do offensively. So I think
it'll be a work in progress for sure, but I
think it'll get there now. Again, not saying he's going
to be Kevin Durant. I want to make.
Speaker 1: Clear aggregators, Jacob Nivian Diggs.
Speaker 3: That Dan's going to clip this and the.
Speaker 1: Actually it is going to be a clip for a
larger project, but it'll be out there. So is there then?
What is something then specific? Like if you're looking kind
of like if you look at his shot Diyet this
year and then if you had to compare it to
next year, like what's one area that you would like
to see more of them, Jacob? Is it kind of
like you mentioned, you know, the pull ups. Is it
maybe he had like kind of a at points, like
he shot really one floaters last year.
Speaker 3: Is it?
Speaker 1: I'm not a fan of, you know, let's give the
ball to him in the post, but maybe developing a
turnaround or being able to have more face up opportunities
inside the arc, and not to compare him to Christops,
but like the ability to just like turn catch the ball,
turn around, face up and be like, oh fuck, I'm
taller than everybody. I'm just gonna shoot this.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the one, the one biggest spot is three
point attempts.
Speaker 3: That's what I Jacob.
Speaker 2: He took four point three last year. I'm gonna be
real honest with you. If he takes like seven this year,
I think that's a really good sign.
Speaker 1: Well, they could use someone who takes that many for
teams through the floor, so well they don't want didn't
you guys were the ones that I know this from.
I'm only one player took five three point attemps per
game last.
Speaker 2: Year I got and that was louganz.
Speaker 1: Dort, not Isaiah, Joe noted sniper dot.
Speaker 2: I think you're gonna see those attempts start to climb
for a handful of those guys, but for Chet specifically,
I think off the dribble threes, trail transition threes, I
could see them running some like pinned down type of
actions and like coming up from the corner type of actions.
And then he also has you kind of mentioned the
idea of like not posting him up, but when he
catches in that high post area, he actually has a
really nice like little turnaround MIDI fade away. He almost
goes to like the dirt like high knee fade away,
and I think you could see that a lot more
as well. He's got really really good touch, and like
I said, I think last year he ran out of gas.
You could just tell the legs were dead. He wasn't
getting any arc in his shot at all. I think
another offseason, having the full season under his belt, really
starts to fix some of that stuff. And hey, maybe
he takes Paul George's advice and shoots with like a
what Paul say, like a basketball or something like that.
Speaker 3: The way they did basketball. I like it.
Speaker 1: Paul drege had like a shit tout of show the issues,
So I hope that's kind of where mine mine went.
Speaker 3: And that was Chet's response to him too, which I
found pretty was not specifically, but he alluded to it.
He was like, dude, like, what does that do to
your shoulders? And I was like, that was pretty good. Yeah,
that's right. I don't find out real quick, Jacob, your
your first two questions or your first two answers to
to Dan's questions. I think we're pretty spot on. He
touched on a lot that I have like more specifics on.
I think it would go later on through the outline
that Dan gave us and some really fun things to
talk on.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: Dan, I apologize, I'm like kind of taking over hosts here,
and as Jacob knows from our podcast, I do that
way too often. But I will just say, yeah, just
back to like the big takeaway you had, Jacob. I
love that you mentioned that because I kind of want
to take it a step further. And I had two
two quick ones, but my main one, and I kind
of call it the little hanging fruit, but it's not
just check for me and his improvement. It's the big
three and Okay, see in general, Dan Shay Dubb. I know, Shay,
you know with second MVP voting, seems like he's a
top five player in the league consensus if you ask around,
look to all these national national media podcasts and articles
that they have out there. But he has a lot
of growth as well as a player. And so how
did these players continue to work on their own games
and improve, Like, obviously we want to see Jeb take
a big leap, Jacob just crushed talking about chet and
the leak we want to see from him. How do
they do that but still play alongside one another and
also within the construct of the team. Let's make it
very clear none of us here in OKAC are worried
about personalities or then these players not wanting to do so,
that's not them at all. They want to play within
the construct of what Mark Degnall and Saint Press they
have a visioned for this team more so just them
being also incredibly talented and still have so much room
for growth. How are they all able to do that together?
And that just kind of leads like to my I
think my final big big takeaway for the season is
like you have these new big additions, like we're about
to get into without Scruso as a heart and plus
playoff experience now under the same team's belt, plus the
superstar and Shay and the rising stars that we just mentioned,
that equals new expectations. And look, let's be very clear.
The Thunder preach about not listening to the outside noise,
but just know that it's impossible not to hear those things.
And so how does this Thunder team, this young Thunder team,
you know, how do they perform in comparison to those
those external expectations.
Speaker 1: It does seem though that because one of my questions
that doesn't need to be a question anymore based on
how you guys think that they're going to use Chet,
is do they miss the Josh Getty check connection all
just because Giddy did a good job of actively looking
for him, especially when you look at the share of
the passes he threw. Now you take Giddy out of
the equation, that's one less person who needs the ball
in their hands. Doesn't it kind of just make it?
I would say a non concern about j Dubb and
Chet and Shake gildzug Zad are all being able to
play like kind of a starring like teams just have
three guys normally that can or I'm sorry. Super teams
have three guys that can normally operate on ball and
a lot of the times things tend to work themselves out.
And so is that like even an at like if
they're I guess if there's a player of the three
that you would be concerned about like sort of I
don't want to say lost in the shuffle, but seeing
their skills being tamped down, is it naturally just Chet
because of the like the position that he technically plays,
or maybe even just the defensive workload that he's shouldering,
so you don't want to overtax him too much on offense.
We like Jacob is there, Like it seems to me
from that perspective, like getting rid of Josh Gatty just
takes care a lot of any of the concern when
it comes to the collective development of those three.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're totally right. And you mentioned like
the number of passes Josh Getty made and how many
of those are going to Chet, And Josh was great
at getting guys to their spots. I think a lot
of folks have this idea that, like Josh Getty is
a really bad player, and I just think with the
rapid development of the Thunder, the fit just wasn't clean
at all. I don't have the stats to back this up, Dan,
this is just a he no ball quote. But I
think the better connection on the team is Dub and Chet.
They developed like double is the only guy who could
complete a law of the chet holmgrin. But they developed
a really really nice two man game, especially with one
of them attacking and the other one cutting and being
able to find each other. And I think the absence
of Josh Getty opens up shots, touches, passes opportunities specifically
for those three, and I would say even more specifically
for Dub and Chet, Shay's usage I imagine would stay
the same. I don't think it's going up because of
the absence of Josh, so I think those other two
get even more of an opportunity. And I think putting
the ball in Jalen Williams's hand with Josh Gunn, I
think Jadab might be the best passer on the team,
and I think you'll see a lot more offensive initiation
with him as well. So I think the absence of
Josh just opens up opportunities for those other two to
really grow more naturally into what they want to do,
where again, I don't think Josh is a bad player,
but Josh absolutely needed the ball in his hand to
succeed on this team, I think, just to succeed in
the NBA, and those opportunities were rapidly dwindling in Okasee.
But you also still wanted to play him. But if
you play him playing him off ball, we saw how
that went right and it wasn't good, So I think
it was just a very natural transition. I actually mentioned
this on our show the other day. The trading of
Josh Giddy and that opening up more opportunities for Chet
and for Jada is very similar to me ten plus
years ago when they traded Jeff Green to open up
the opportunities for Serge Ibaka Okay Surge was a little
more unknown at the time than these two obviously are,
but they got rid of one guy to open up
opportunities for another, and I see something very similar happening
here with the absence of Josh Taylor.
Speaker 1: So kind of sticking with the Big three. Jaydub was
working off a high baseline from his rookie season and
somehow managed to improve in just so many different areas,
But what about his improvement stood out the most? Like
what was the area that you look at? I was like, okay, wow,
like this happened. This is a big deal.
Speaker 3: So not to sound like a broken record, but let's
start with the low hanging fruit again, because I think
when you look at Jadab's improvement and his season that
he had his sophomore season compared to his rookie year,
the dude shot forty two point seven percent from three
last season on three point four attempts per game. That's
up from thirty five percent on only two point seven
attenpts from his rookie season. He was incredibly efficient and
he was getting his shots up, And like we already
have alluded to Jacob and I, we want to see
more and more of that, just in terms from the
team as a whole game. The three point attempts up.
I think that's going to be very big for the
moving forward, and for jadeb to kind of take on
that role, that was huge, especially for him to be
so efficient and something else that I just saw. I'm
sure you and some of the listeners saw this as well. Dan,
but NBA University in great Twitter account, they tweeted out
something today about Jdubb and his efficiency, especially on his
pull ups and his shooting in general. He had three
hundred and sixty seven pull up attempts last season, shot
fifty six percent from the four of those. I guess
technically that's a filluel efficiency, but that's an absurd number,
not to mention forty four percent from step back threes.
Speaker 1: The step back three volume he like tripled or whatever
it was from his rookie season. It was ridiculous.
Speaker 3: The shot creation there, just being able to get to
his spots, that's huge, But I think you also have
to confine that and this is not so statistical like
I just mentioned, but you look at like how he
was at Santa Clara and how he was developing as
a player, compared that to this past season of JDub.
The size that he's put on in the athleticism like
that first step and his improved size and strength are
just absolutely lethal. And so I mean, kind of like
Jacob mentioned, it's like a true NBA star archetype, and
that's not something I think if you were like a
hardcore draft analyst viewing his tape back during his years,
it seems clear that you would have thought you would
develop into. So for him to take that lead physically
and athletically, that's super promising as well.
Speaker 1: Is there anything whether it's what you learned about him
from the struggles he had offensively in that Dallas series
or just in general that you're gonna be focusing on. Okay,
can he develop? You already mentioned the three point volume?
Is there anything outside of that? I will say the
one thing because I need to be a better job
of hosting and not really give my opinion, but the
different the variance and cadence to his game I feel
like got so much better from year one to year two.
Where's I didn't trust him is not trust him, but
didn't viewm is like this methodical guy that could break
down defenses from all this like different situations, and I think,
especially moving forward, this is someone that I think you
can trust to just run your entire offense in all
these different settings where it's he's not as dependent on
straight lines or having to do these sudden stops, like
there's just so many different counters and I guess directions
would be the word to his game. And to see
that improvement in one year. I know rookies are supposed
to improve, but he was just working off such a
high baseline. So that turned my head and it made
me think the way I framed it on this podcast,
like already when we were doing I don't remember what
it was but a few podcasts ago, which is like
the fact that he experienced what he did, like the
offensive struggles at points in the postseason. Now I would
almost terrify me as opposing teams to see what he
comes back as in year three.
Speaker 3: So first of all, we want your opinion, Dan's while
we have you on the Uncontested podcast in return over
the past couple of seasons, and I think that makes
it really fun. So I love hearing your insight into
this team as well. But for me, the two things
that stood out during that Maverick scame the answer your
question was the playmaking and the assertiveness because it was
his first time there, like you said last year and
we were talking about Josh Gitty. This kind of ties
him to that as well. But you know, obviously Doub
was a starter, but they would stagger Dub and Shae
about midway through through the first quarter, and that was
kind of that league playmaker with the second unit. It
wasn't Josh gitty and that was the first like big, big,
maybe alarm signal that like, Okay, the thunder is starting
to pick up on things with Josh Getty spit, it's
Dub leaning the second uit. They want the ball on
his hands. So the playmaking for others he's going to
need to continue to improve. But also the assertedness in
the playoffs, I think that was just you know, this
is his first time there. He's getting his feet wet,
but we know he's capable of so much warning to
those spots. So, Jacob, those were kind of my big
two takeaways from the Dallas series. But I'm curious if
you have different answers or if you agree or disagree.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I assertiveness was one of the big ones for me.
And efficiency. I think just when the level of physicality
really ramped up and teams really sat down and focused
in on him. It's kind of what you expect from
a second year guy in the second round of the
playoffs as the number two usage player on the team, right, Dan,
you mentioned it, like, yeah, if I'm another team and
I see, hey, this kid's in year two and he's
already gone through the trials and tribulations and now it's
time to come out on the other side. Yeah, it's
kind of scary. It reminds me of the first and
second year run of James Harden in the playoffs and
then he came out in that finals playoff run where
he just absolutely cooked the Dallas Mavericks and then he
went in and won them the series against the Spurs.
And it kind of gives me that type of vibes.
Speaker 3: And he is the next Harden and is the next KD.
Shay's the next Russ. You heard here here first.
Speaker 1: She's the next Russ.
Speaker 2: That is so mean?
Speaker 3: Oh man, how to give Jacob a hard time?
Speaker 1: I agree with that.
Speaker 2: It's a good comp I think one thing we forget
is like Jadob's like six ' four like.
Speaker 1: I thought he was six six.
Speaker 3: Is he really?
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's he's shorter than Shay and Shay's listed at
like a generous sixty six. The thing is Jdb's arms
are like he's got like a seven three wingspan. He's
listed at six five. All right, I think it's I
think it's a little closer to six four.
Speaker 1: But being strong make you look taller? Is that?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Is that a thing that must be well.
Speaker 2: Here's the thing, is this Thunder team Jacob's thick dort
is thick. They just added Alex Caruso. They just want
every single six or four dude who will absolutely beat
the ship out of you. And they're kind of building
that team. Not to get steered too far off track here,
but for his Instagram Scory Cason Wallace is now up
to like two hundred and six pounds, up thirteen pounds
from last year. So they just want the.
Speaker 1: Kyle Lowry like. Body's going on?
Speaker 2: Is it all glutes? Just the the and the most
generous term possible to just the fattest asses in the NBA.
I'm I'm here for it. No.
Speaker 1: Sorry, the Sixers have they've monopolized that with.
Speaker 2: That is very very true. That is very true.
Speaker 1: Uh, let's get to the new new editions. I'll start
with I say, a Hartenstein, we know all this stuff
that he does, Well, what is the Jacob? What's this
like single thing that you think he's going to impact
the most for this Thunder team When you look at.
Speaker 2: His game, I think I don't want this to stud disparaging.
I think if you ask the average NBA fan, they
would say rebounding. They need a rebounder. They got a
big guy who can rebound. I think even more than that,
it is going to be on offense, the screen setting
and the moving without the basketball. This team, they're really
really good. They dan you know this. They run I
probably more guard to guard screens than any team in
the NBA, maybe any team in NBA history. They love
the guard to guard screen. They don't screen well though.
They're just so fast and so smart, and their their
movements are so precise that even if a defender isn't
fully screened or you don't get the full contact on
the screen, they're still gonna get by you. And then
the back cut comes and then the swing pass and
they'll just beat you with the ball. But having a
guy who can just annihilate somebody on a screen and
spring Shay Giljess Alexander to come off that screen, take
one dribble inside the paint or inside the three point
line and get to that midi and everybody knows that
that thing is one of the most dangerous shots in
the NBA. Shay is a killer in the mid range,
Like he's gonna get so many more open ones because
of the screen setting that Hertenstein is gonna be able
to provide. And then whenever teams adjust to that and
they blitz him off the screen, will you have one
of the best short roll passers in the league in
Isaiah Hartenstein? And then whenever they adjust to that, he
moves so well without the ball. Whenever I watch Isaiah
Hartenstein film from New York this past year, one of
the things that jumps off the page to me is
he never stands still. He is always in motion. Now,
is it baseline to baseline, spacing out to three, No,
but moving around the paint and just constantly readjusting where
he is and being available for easy dump off passes.
He's going to feast on that in Oklahoma City. So
I think the screening is going to open up so
many things for this team, including the other things that
Hertenstein does well. That that is the biggest thing that
I think he's going to contribute, even over the obvious
rebounding that he will be able to provide.
Speaker 3: So I'm kind of chuckling here and I want to
humor both of you as well as the listeners. I'm
glad Jacob went first because my bullet point here was
Jacob can take this one away because he's been spot
on all offseason since the signing. The room protecting and
rebounding is huge. But he's a great playmaker from the
high post, which fits Okasey to a t, and an
incredible screener, really a great off ball player in general.
Speaker 1: Well done, Jacob, Yeah, I mean I would agree with
what he says. I think is off even if you
don't think that's going to be his biggest area of impact.
I do think that the stuff he does on offense
has been I think you'd argue one it might have
been underutilized the point it's in New York, but too,
I think it's just underestimated by the masses at large.
And you look the short roll stuff you mentioned, Okay, see,
wasn't a team like relative of the league average that took
a lot of corner threes? That number should go up.
And I'm assuming, like if you look at the on
au split from when he's on the court with the
corner with like three like three point share, I'm assuming
there's gonna be a massive difference there just because of
what he's able to do in that department. So tailor
speak something else in there, real quick, No moving on, Yeah,
of course.
Speaker 2: You mentioned the corner threes when he's on the court.
I'm just gonna say it. I think he's gonna take
some of those corner threes. And Okay, see if.
Speaker 1: I were told are they gonna let him shoot threes?
Because Tom Thibodeau would not.
Speaker 2: If he averages two to three point attempts a game
this season, I would not be shocked. Damn.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm here for it. You guys know how
I feel about big shooting threes. So and he look,
he dabbled in it at some of his past stops.
It's just Tom Diddo doesn't like his centers to space
the floor for the most part. So uh uh. But
so the whole Isaiah hart Stegn, chet holgerun dynamic. I agree.
I think it was Jacob said it before. This team
does clearly view chet Holmgren as a five. They did
give Isaiah Hartenstein, even though it's only two guaranteed years,
a shitload of money. I viewed it as almost like
a tax on. Hey, you're not gonna be playing a
ton of minutes. You're probably not gonna be like closing
a bunch of games. But what is your read or
opinion on how they're going to use these two together,
maybe in terms of what they're doing on the court,
or even just how often are we going to see
them go to the dual, big setup.
Speaker 3: So I mean again, and this is the ultimate cop out,
but I think it is matchup dependent. I like your
point there about it kind of being a tax. I
think it's more so like a tax of Thunder had
had to pay because they're a small market team and
you're not likely to attract free agency here unless you're
able to pay that kind of money. I think that's
what it more so was, rather than just the role,
but just a quick aside like when it comes to
the starting lineup or even the closing lineup. I think
it's going to down I've been saying this ever since
the Hartenstein and Carusoe signings. It's going to come down
to it's going to be a matchup dependent And so
that kind of leads me into some of the big
thoughts about him and chet playing together. Like you said,
we know, and that's the reason it was kind of
a bit of a surprise for us because this Thunder team,
Sam pressI have talked so much about chet Holmgun being
a five. They view him as a five long term,
and he's still going to be even with the Hartenstein signing.
That being said, the option to go double big is fascinating,
especially when you think about teams like in the West,
like the Wolves, even Denver, especially the Lakers, teams like
that that kind of gave the Thunder trouble last season.
But I'm also really curious if it frees up Chetta
be playing at the four, and again, it's football season,
so I have football analogies on mine, but kind of
playing like more of like a free safety role on
defense where he's not having to be the defensive anchor
down low, but can kind of roam and get more
of those blocks. We see those block tempts go up
with Hartenstein around the room. That's fascinating to think about.
And then, like Jacob talked and cover so well, I
think earlier, what does that look like with chet in
a forward position on offense, being mismatch against some smaller
players and getting more three point attempt I think that's
really exciting. So that being said, I think you lose
some perimeter defense and four spacing with those two together
on the floor, and you're also taking I mean, let's
call it what how it is like this Thunder team
is very deep and talented. You're taking some additional talent
off the court. But that's that's the last one I had, Jacob.
I think you're spot on. Don't sleep on Iheart's ability
to shoot three in space to four a little bit
this season.
Speaker 1: Who's I guess, because hert and son is here now,
whose role is going to be impacted more of Kenrich
Williams are big Jaellen Williams j Will for sure.
Speaker 2: I Kenrich kind of got cut from the rotation in
the playoffs, which was surprising to a lot of us.
Just didn't have a great season last year. I think
he'll be fine. I think he will still get time.
Especially at his size. Kendrich is like closer to six seven,
really one of the only like quote unquote bigger wings
on the team, even though he he I mean shit,
two years ago he played primarily at the five off
the bench. But it would definitely be Jay Will. I
think Jay Will was already starting to get squeezed out
last season. I think you'll see that even more. And
kind of wrap up this conversation of centers. The Thunder
played five percent of all of their available minutes last year,
with two bigs on the court, I expect to see
that number go up. I also think it's fascinating when
the season was absolutely on the line last three minutes
of Game six in Dallas, they went to a two
big len him and so I think that probably tells
you a little bit about what you can expect to
see with Chet and iHeart, which is I think they'll
show the court a decent amount of time together.
Speaker 1: We kind of already touched upon, like how big of
a difference it is going from I don't want to
call him he's not a non shooter, but he's a
non floor spaser and Josh Giddy to Alice Caruso, who
was someone defense's respect. But Taylor, I think from watching
Alex Caruser over the years is even at his most aggressive,
he's just overly deferential. Like when it comes to on
his drives, he's probably pat like overly looking to pass
too much. His three point volume was at a career high
per thirty six last year, which was still just not
all that high. It was still under six attempts per
thirty six minutes. Is there any concern there about that
becoming an issue or is it just you look at
the surrounding weapons, You look at the way that Thunder
space the floor, which is you know, based off his
time in LA and in Chicago, those teams were not
spacing the floor like this team does. And so do
you expect that to not really be an issue?
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously it's a concern. I think the reason
for that, it's not just Crusoe as a player, but
this team as a whole has something Jacob touched on earlier,
and I was glad he did because this was the
specific I wanted to kind of dive into. Like, obviously,
like all changes, there will be an adjustment growth period
when you're adding guys like Hartenstein and Caruso, higher usage
players than with some of these players currently on the
Thunder use playing with like, there's going to be some
growing pains even if they're short even for work up
best long term. But the Thunder as a team, we're
sixteenth and three point attempts per game last season. US
fans went to see that go up significantly, not just
out Scruso, but all these guys we talked about Jadub
talk about that being improvement for CHET. So I don't
think it's so much a focus for Caruso specifically for
this coaching staff and the organization, it's going to be
for the team as a whole. So hopefully, you know,
I think that's just going to be a focus heading
into training camp. And so it's not just Caruso so
much as the team entirely in and in its entirety.
Speaker 1: Jacob who is because people like ranking things and making
everything binary. Who is who ends up being the more
impactful addition for this team? Looking at next season specifically,
because you could cop out and say Isaia Hartnstein's under
a contract for at least one more year than Alex
Caruso is at this point, but next season, who do
you view is more important to this team's makeup?
Speaker 3: Quick as side, that'll change.
Speaker 1: But he's gonna sign extensions my guest, if you trade
it for him and like 'or and also everyone's extension
happy now because the players are cool, like the Jared
Allen extension after the Cavs threw him under the bus.
But he probably was looking at free agency like, oh man,
like the open market is just are these teams still
gonna be running scared? So yeah, he will sign extension,
but looking at next season. Who do you anticipate Jacob
having more value or having more of an impact for
this team.
Speaker 2: Oh that's a great question. I would probably go Hartenstein.
God damn.
Speaker 1: Me and Grant had this debate on a podcast we
recorded earlier today, and he packed hart and Stein and
I went into in detail as to how he was wrong.
Speaker 3: But now I'm gonna I'm with Dan, So you go first, Jacob.
Speaker 2: I maybe we have the same argument. I don't know,
but I think Hartenstein because Hartenstein is a one of
one on this team. He is the only stereotypical traditional
big you know, Chet is very like non traditional that
this team has, even Jalen Williams. J will is undersized
at like six ' nine, thicker body but but a
little undersized, where Caruso is incredible. But this team also
has lou Dorton, Case and Wallace who are a similar
archetype player. And then you go further down the list
and you got an Aaron Wiggins, which I know we'll
touch on in a bit. I know you have a
bone to pick with me, Dan, and that's.
Speaker 1: Okay, not an actual bone, but yeah, I'm going to
pretend to be infuriated.
Speaker 2: Aaron Wiggins the man who saved basketball. They have a
lot of that archetype, right the six three six four
sixty five wing slash guard who's just a bulldog defensively
and can space out and shoot threes. Because that position
is a little redundant, which I think redundancy of that
position is a great thing to have in the modern NBA.
I think that the bigger impact becomes, iHeart because of
the scarcity of that prototype on the team.
Speaker 3: Okay, so that's very good points now icessarily disagree with him,
But here's the right answer. And Dan, I do want
to hear your thoughts on this as well. But the
main thing that stands out to me, there's a couple
of things why I think the Caruso signing will have
the bigger impact. But the biggest thing for those listeners
listening right now that didn't watch the Thunder religiously or
do not tune into the Uncontested podcast after every post
game like some Thunder fans do, they're going to say
the biggest hole, you know, obviously was Josh Getty, his
fit with that starting lineup, him not being guarded from
three and just being left open. But the thing is
it wasn't so much Josh Getty being left open. It
was the fact that opposing teams or putting their center
on Josh Gutty that led to some smaller but big
versatile defenders forwards guarding chet Holmgren, which he really struggled
with and kind of led to that. I don't want
to call it a decline, but obviously a big learning
curve there in the second half of the season. And
so when you have Caruso out there on the floor
that has to be respected from three, you also obviously
can't put your censer on him. That allows chat Homegroun
just be able to cook, especially if he's getting the
ball out on the perimeter and can just take take
a to the rack and get to the rim. The
other thing there as well is I just think, like
when when Shae would sit, one thing at the Thunder
really needed was another ball handler and the Josh Giddy
Dub even that second unit, they weren't like Caruso's another
player I think who can come in and take some
of those ball handling, play making duties. I think that's
going to be huge, And again, like I think very
highly Giddy as a player. But the thunder. Getting giddy
for Caruso straight up without having to give up a
picks just absolutely absurd in the great greater scheme of
things like, I just think Caruso will have a bigger
impact over on this team. He's already familiar with the
organization too.
Speaker 1: So my argument in a Nutchell Well, Jacob made part
of it for me before he made mine better by
saying that he could see cut home Grid being the
best player on this team with Shane in a couple
of years. You could, I think you could honestly just
boil it down to Isaiah Hartnstein plays your second or
third most important player's best position, and so I think
that's just going to inherently limit the amount of time
he's on the court, and that hit his impact is
going to be more matchup dependent than Crusoe's. The other
point of my argument, though, was that lou Dort has
turned into I don't mean to make this comp specifically,
but defenses will now at least sometimes guard or react
to what Marcus Smart is doing well pre Memphis Beyond
the Arc, lou Dort has entered that realm, and he
shot the hell out of the three ball. But like
when you're looking at Caseon Wallace, who as of now
maybe that changes, he still feels like too passive to
me offensively when looking for his own offense. So when
you have that plus lou Dort, who if his shot
is offers, team's just a slide like, yeah, we're okay
with him making a couple of threes, and so we're
still going to leave that space. Caruso blends or takes
up some of both of those weaknesses to where you
don't lose anything defensively going from Dort to Caruso. If
that's a decision you have to make, and you definitely
don't lose anything offensively right now going from Caseon Wallace
to Cruso. And so I probably didn't give enough consideration
to what Jacob said, which is just the positional logjam there.
But then I also looked at it from the perspective
too of like you have real equity committed to Caruso,
where it's like, okay, I say, Aahstein was just cap space.
You gave up Josh Giddy, who was a very high
draft pick, and I know it was the final year
of his contract. He wasn't the right fit, but there
is still sort of that equity perspective there, So and
that was the move like that you made you clearly
without maybe you could have you tampered maybe, but we
didn't know Isaiah Hartenstein was coming at that point. So
I look at that and that was where I was
coming at it from. And I closed by saying, I
think at the end of the day, when we look
at the crunch time that the Thunder play next season,
I think Alex Caruso will have made played more total
minix excuse me, by a fairly well sized margin compared
to Isaiah Hartenstein. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think we
both we all know I'm one hundred percent right. So
I mean, I think you're on.
Speaker 2: It's a lot easier to play Caruso in any situation
than it is Hartenstein in any situation, especially when you
have Chet.
Speaker 3: On the team.
Speaker 1: Can we appreciate how how do you stop cursing on this?
Because how ridiculous this conversation is. Right now you talk
about embarrassed with like this is gold shoe are too
tight territory? But I mean, which of these fantastic fits
is gonna be the better fit?
Speaker 2: They were fourth in defense last season, Uh, I think
that number is going up. I mean they just there.
Imagine being an opposing ball handler coming into Oklahoma City
to play on a second nd of a back to back.
Speaker 1: No, you sit out?
Speaker 2: Yeah, an injury like it's.
Speaker 3: We're gonna We're going to start ludort on you. If
there's a switch JDub or Share coming at you. Oh
thank goodness, one of those players are sitting here, comes
out Scruso in case of the Wallace like just hillacious.
Speaker 1: We've kind of already touched on this, but I want
to know if you still consider it with given how
what my actual biggest need for the thunder is something
they didn't address, which was that other It could have
been a wing with someone with size who could create
their own shot table set for others, had like jiggle
and joggles, the way he was with the ball where
it wasn't just straight line stuff. They didn't get that guy.
But then you talk about the development of Chet Holmgren,
you talk about the stride Jeale Williams is already made
you probably the case like they have two of those
guys already on the roster. I just already considered J
dub one, Jacob, do you still view that as through
the lens of a longer term need that you're going
to want this team to try and fill at some point,
and if it's you know, we haven't gotten to the
Nicolo topic of it all just yet, but like just
in a nutshell or vacuum, rather like, do you still
view that as something you want them to address some
powers it like? No, like the answers are just on
the team already.
Speaker 2: Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly, you're saying a
big wing who can do that, or a big wing
for somebody who can do that.
Speaker 1: I think it's it when you just look at the
guard glut they have right now. I think it's a
wing size, like a properly wing sized player, like not
six or five or under type.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's fair. I think two years ago,
and I know we'll get to this one too. I
think two years ago they would have said we've got
that guy on the roster in the incubator in Nusman, Jane.
That is no longer the case, and my humble opinion
that is no longer the case. But I think you
kind of took the answer from me when you mentioned
Nicole Topitch. I think advancements from Cason Wallace, you kind
of have those guys already insulated on the roster, and
like I led the show off with, even if that
is like the quote unquote need, it's hard to say
this team has a lot of needs right now. But
if that's the last piece, I don't see like a
massive consolidation trade to go get that guy who's already
on a big contract filling that need. Just because of
the current way the CBA is set up. The Thunder
are two years away from the second apron, and when
you're in the second apron, you are in trouble, and
really the only thing you can do is develop and draft.
Thunder a pretty damn good at both of those things.
And they own everybody's first round pick for the next
half decade, so.
Speaker 1: I mean, having Utah rotating on for the next few years.
Speaker 2: I don't see them consolidating those picks to go get
that guy now. I think if that is the need
that the team decides they need to fill, I think
that comes via the draft, which, like we mentioned, they
get the best of their own Houston or Clippers pick
this season, plus they have the top ten protected Utah pick,
Plus they have the lottery protected Miami pick this year,
and I think this is the year that they have
the top four protected Philly pick from the Al Horford trade.
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty five, right, yeah, twenty.
Speaker 2: Five, so or first round picks on the table, including
a triple swap. So if that's the need they need
to fill, they're gonna have opportunities to do in the draft.
Speaker 1: The other thing that stood out to me about this
team offensively, and I don't know that it was fully appreciated.
They're half court efficiency improved by almost seven points per
one hundred possessions. That is wild because when you look
at the margins, like to use the calves as an example,
they dropped from seventh and half court efficiency to eighteen
and the difference was like, oh, their half court efficiency
declined by about one point three points per one hundred
posessions in the half court. What did anything go into
that other than just like, Okay, Jay Dubb makes his
leap and Chet's there to open up the floor, and
that's just it created all these other opportunities for anyone else.
Was there anything Taylor that I'm just sort of missing here?
It's like, how do you make that when you're already
like they weren't like caps Lock that good, but like
we knew the bones of what they could be. How
do you make that big of a leap when you're
not working from such an incredibly low baseline to begin with.
Speaker 3: Well, I think that the Chet point cannot be overstated.
I know a lot of people are probably like you
know that they hear that all the time, But it's
true having a versatile big like Chet coming in this
past year, especially with a year of just observing under
his belt. He talked a lot about that this offseason.
Last last during the regular season, he was interviewed about it.
I mean that's opened the flour so much more for
players like Jada and Shay specifically. That being said, there's
a couple other things too, like the versatility of this team,
the Thunder's versatility and ability to just regardless of who
is on the floor playing one through five, being able
to rip the ball off off the rim and defense
and push the ball in transition. They're an incredibly great
in my opinion, I said this line on our podcast
last year. I think they're at their best when they're
playing in transition rather than in the half court offense.
But when they are slowed down and off in half
court sets, you have players like Shay and Dub who
are so incredibly efficient able to get to their spots,
and I mean, that's just a cheat code. That's why
you're going to see those numbers go up, especially when
Dubb's taking that leap. When you have Shay and Dub
who are so efficient and scoring, especially when they're able
to get to their spots, that's huge. But I think
the last thing here is just the style of offense
that Mark Davenall's implemented. These are guys who are always
going to make the extra pass and the right read.
They're going to make that extra pass to get the
open shot or a better shot than the one they
already had. And also the off ball movement you talked about,
guys like Aaron Wiggenstan Kenrich Williams. Doesn't matter who you're
putting out there, these guys are great off ball. They're cutting,
and you're going to have point guards and lead playmakers
like Dub and Shae who are able to find those guys.
That's what leads to that jump in the half court efficiency.
Speaker 1: In my opinion, I don't have any good questions about
Shay Gilderslexander specifically, anymore like he's already If you want
to make the case, there were people that are making
a case he deserved all defense this year. So if
that's something you want to focus on, go ahead. I
decided instead to go full. I don't watch the thunder.
Let's just ask this question. If I set the over
under at four point two to three point attempts per game,
we'll start with Jacob for Shay next season, are you
taking the over the under on that.
Speaker 2: Four point two? Last year he took three point six. Shay.
Every time he's had a break from basketball since his
senior year of high school, he comes back with something new,
something better. This time around, maybe it's the three point shot,
So give me the old. I think they want this
team taking a lot more threes. I think you're gonna
see more from Shay, Chet and Dubs.
Speaker 3: Specifically, I agree completely, like Jacob said, three point six
this past season, and we know he's capable of taking more.
On top of that, you're gonna have better floor spacing
this year. And you look at his his averages twenty
twenty one twenty twenty two season, he averaged five point
three three point tens per game and twenty twenty twenty
twenty one, the COVID year with Chris Paul he's still
a young up and coming player in the league. He
had four point nine three point tens per game. I
think we're we're gonna going to see closer to that
four point nine number this season.
Speaker 1: I think what's gonna be important to him hitting it?
And it sounds like I would agree with the over
base off the stuff you've said about you guys have
both said about the other players on this team. Is
the quickest way to get him more of those three
point looks is like they need to come off the
catch probably and so like, if that can become a
higher share where he's not doesn't need to dominate the
ball as much because chet is doing this as a
you know, not just as like someone with the ball,
but as a play that Jay Dove's doing this as
a playmaker. If you trust defenses to overreact to Alex
Caruso and the lane, more case, wall Wallace gets ten
percent better, Aaron Wiggins gets like fifteen percent better. I
think that opens up an opportunity for him to be
off the ball a little bit more. And I think
that's probably and even with Isaiah Hartenstein there, if he's
not involved in that primary action for some reason, that
might be the most efficient path towards him hitting the over.
And it's like we've seen the volume before, but it
was in a role basically like those first two years
in Oklahoma City, maybe the second one, but like the
first year. For sure, this was not anything like we've
seen Jay gilg just out SGA play the past couple
of years in Okay See.
Speaker 2: For sure, Yeah, I could definitely see the over. He
also in the playoffs got a lot more going to
that step back, and I wouldn't be surprised to see
that more frequently this season as well.
Speaker 1: What are we looking for Taylor from Cason Wallace in
year two, who this podcast put on their first team
All rookie because that dude just defense basically everybody and
as just yeah, I'm not sure that we appreciate not
you guys, but collectively just he's a rookie. The Thunder
were one of the two best teams they made in
the ring. He's just a regular part of the rotation
like for all these The thing that I preached to
fans when they get mad that like well, why would
you grade the Lakers offseason so poorly? They got Dalton
connect like that's they upgraded the Torian Prince minutes. You
don't get to say that if you're trying to be
a good team, like you don't just get to assume
that from a rookie. Yet the Thunder fucking got it
from a rookie.
Speaker 3: Exactly, Sam Presty strikes again, just like you said, kind.
Speaker 1: Of for me on that trade, by the way, I
destroyed their cap management and like the that thing think
case of Washer's like, all right, doesn't matter. It's the
Thunder probably know what they're doing.
Speaker 3: And honestly, like even if they would have stayed put
and taken Derek Clevely like a lot of people wanted to,
they're probably in a great spot also, And we're we
weren't talking about Hartenstein. We're talking about you know, how
great the Crusoe fit is. That's exact perfect missing, you know,
Like I think either way would have played out for them.
But like you said, Sam obviously knew what he was doing.
I think this past year for something uncontested and for
me specifically, the things that stood out to me the
most in order from Cason's rookie season was his confidence
as a rookie, just like you mentioned, being able to
get in big time, big game situations and not look
like a rookie looking like a season vet in a
lot of instances. Obviously his defense and then the three
point efficiency in that order. But we've been talking a
lot about this this soft season, and then contested there's
a lot more to Cason Wallace's game. Can he unlock
that with the logjam of like the depth of talent
on this team, we'll see. That's something that you mentioned
a lot so far throughout this podcast, Dan, But I
want to see Kason Wallace with the ball in his
hands a little more, and I honestly think we will.
I think the thunder went too as well. You look
back during his time with Kentucky his freshman year and
I just completely went blank on who the starting point
guard for them was. But that point guard got hurt
Cason took on those ball handling duties. So I think
the playmaking and the self creation with the ball in
his hands, that's the next evolution to Cason Wallace's game,
And to answer your question, I think that's what will
probably see a little more of we'll see how much,
but a little more of this upcoming season, what.
Speaker 1: Do we kind of make though of the I don't
want to just call it a guard glut, but it
is a guard glut where it's okay, you have Aaron Wiggins,
you have Isaiah Joe and both of them are on
new contracts. You have Cason Wallace, you have Alex Cruzo.
You're thinking about or we're assuming they're going to keep.
There's lou Dort, there's Shay and it helps that some
of these guys can just slide up to the wings.
But and we should be living in the moment with them.
But this is also just like what is the endgame here, Jacob, Like,
there's no way they're keeping especially with all these draft
picks coming in. So they getting rid of the draft
picks or we're just gonna see some not a mega consoli.
Everyone wants the Thunder still to make a consolidation, blockbuster trade.
Is it just they need to consolidate to make room
for these bodies that are gonna come in by way
of the draft.
Speaker 2: For sure. You also have Nicolotopitch who just came in
the draft, who's also a guard and a lead ball handler.
I think they bank a lot on, and Sam Presti
said as much during both his exit interview and after
the Giddy Caruso swap. Is the size and that the
height listed on the on the roster doesn't matter as
much to them as the I forget what word he used,
but the ability to defend. When you look at the
Chicago Bulls kind of like defensive breakdown a lot of
times Alex Caruso was guarding the four over Patrick Williams,
I do, yeah, yeah. When you look at the Thunder
last season, I mean, Jay Dubb was the permanent starter
at the four, even though Josh Giddy physically was bigger
than him, and I think some of Dubb's best defensive
performances came against guys like Karl Anthony Towns who are
significantly larger than him. But their ability to guard up,
I think is one thing they have really like wanted
to emphasize and bank on. They've clearly changed directions from
the first iteration of the Thunder, which was have two
elite scorers and then fill the roster with long, rangy
defenders who can run the floor and are super athletic
but maybe lack a lot of basketball feel. They now
want everybody who can play point guard, past dribbleshoot. Having
feel for the game is everything they look for chet Holmgrien,
Jalen Williams, Nicola Topich, Cason Wallace, Shay Gilges, Alexander Like
you go down the list, they want guys with really
high basketball feel who can make plays with the ball
in their hand. Those guys tend to be guards, and
I think that's kind of the way they're trending. It
wouldn't surprise me if they don't make that two or
three guards for the bigger wing trade, because I think
they believe in some of these smaller guys to really
be able to slide and defend up and that creates
mismatches for them on the other side of the court.
Speaker 1: Tell her what are the early impressions of Nicola toepitch here.
Obviously not going to be a factor this season, but
he was mentioned in the same breath as top five
pick candidates before he had that ACL injury, So what
do you sort of make of just his game, Like,
what are just early impressions Having obviously not seen him
and definitely not going to see him this year, probably
in the thunder uniform.
Speaker 3: So Nick and I like to get into the weeds
of the NBA draft pretty early, so we scouted him
a little bit. I will obviously say that Nick did
a lot more legwork there and then all of us
collectively obviously once they picked him, we looked a lot
of film and just kind of broke down his game.
And the thing that stands off the most to me
about Toepitch is he's an elite ball handler, playmaker, but
his ability to get to the rim is something that's
incredibly impressive. It's very different than Josh Giddy in regards
to He's just very athletic and is able to is
a little more explosive, where Josh was a little more
the kind of the hirky, jerky, the smooth like utilizing
his length to get to the rim. Topeich is somebody
who's just explosive off the dribble, coming off the pick
and roll, taxaom immediately. That allows him to kick out
to shooters and great for their teammates. But he's also
a great score, great scorer around the rim. He showed
improvements with a three point shot. This is kind of
a theme, you know, Jacob talked about the thunder one
point zero is what we are kind of calling it
now right where he had Russ and KD but then
you drafted these freak athletes and hope that you could
develop them into shooters. Now it's like you have these
great feel, high IQ players, but they also need to
develop into shooters, and Topich kind of falls into that category.
But he's shown a lot more promise, especially when you
compare him to Josh Gitty when Josh Gitty was playing
in the NBL as a draft prospect. In comparison to
Topitch overseas, I think Topich has a little more ability there.
I think he's just going to be one again, another
one of those players who obviously has the size in
terms of height and his wingspan that's going to be
able to come out and not only lead second and
third units if you want to call him that, as
a lead ball handler and primary creator, but also playoff
ball with some of these guys like Dub and Sha.
And that's the ultimate goal.
Speaker 2: To jump back in here real quick. We've had a
we started off kind of off the rails. We've had
like forty minutes of legitimate basketball talk, So it's time
to take a break. Real quick, Dan, do you.
Speaker 3: Know I know exactly where you're going?
Speaker 2: What Nicola topic and one of these like I don't
know if the NBA did it or if it was
like a media company that did it, but they did
one of those like rapid fire questions with with the
rookies and they asked topic what his favorite basketball movie is?
Do you know what His answer was?
Speaker 1: I have zero ideas. It's hope it's not Thunderstruck.
Speaker 3: No, that's it.
Speaker 2: That's it. That's a guess. It was not. I'll give
you one more, one more guess, Dan, what decade?
Speaker 1: How far back?
Speaker 2: Were going?
Speaker 3: Early?
Speaker 1: Early?
Speaker 2: And are well saying in our lifetime? Is like all
basketball movies? I don't know just what. What's a typical
answer for a favorite basketball movie? Who have one? Who's yours? Okay,
that's another good guess. This man in a very Eastern
European accent, did not miss a beat, didn't think, didn't wait.
Speaker 3: Just fired off, no smile.
Speaker 2: Air Bud it was best basketball movie Airbuds.
Speaker 3: That fast, didn't crack a smile. Incredible huge brother is a.
Speaker 2: Die hard Airbud fan. How can you not love him?
Speaker 1: Might be a multi sport athlete, then too right the
soccer football? What else do you do?
Speaker 2: Everybody did everything. I think he went the space at
one point in time, like the Space Buddies are like
all of Airbud's offspring going into space.
Speaker 1: I don't know Jacob any early impressions of Dylan Jones
other than we will probably never predict where his how
his next three point attempt is going to be missed.
Speaker 2: Dylan Jones just feels like a Presty Pet project, like
they They apparently wanted him last draft in the second round,
but Dylan decided to go back to school at Weaver State,
stay another year and bet on himself to go first round.
What she did? The Thunder traded five second round picks
to move up to get him. Big dude, great feel,
plays with the ball in his hands, not super athletic,
but can make every pass, has a really nice, polished
offensive game. Is a competitor. This is like the kind
of I call him the pesty the Presty Pet Projects.
Holy shit, say that three times fast, the Presty pet Projects.
Because we've seen a series of guys in this mold
that they have taken. None of them have panned out
so far, but maybe Dylan Jones will be the one.
The most recent one was Keyonte Johnson out of Kansas State,
who is now with Thunder East aka the Charlotte Hornets.
They keep going for like these stockier, like thick boy
defender can play with the ball in their hands like
jumbo sized playmakers. Dylan Jones is the next in that line.
They're hoping that time three four. I mean this goes
all the way back to uh Deontay Burton was this
archetype as well, right, I bet you haven't heard that
name in a while. They they have this for some reason.
That's an archetype that they like. They haven't struck gold yet,
but eventually they will find their Draymond Green. I'm convinced
of it.
Speaker 1: I can't refuse. I think this under of kind of
just negated the concept of hyperbole.
Speaker 2: So all is true.
Speaker 3: Hey, Dylan Jones is like my one draft pick I
nailed in evaluation. Ever, I'm like one for two hundred now,
but I drilled this one. Yes, that's right, I mean.
Speaker 1: They really would. Would they trade five seconds to get him?
I mean they got them to spare, but like so
they clearly really wanted him.
Speaker 2: Well, they also have so many stains they can never
pick all of them forever. I mean they can make
four G League teams with the second round picks that
they have. Yeah, so they had to go similar eventually, right.
Speaker 3: They promised that they were going to take him or
they told him they were going to take him in
that second round where the drafted a similar archetype in
Kante Johnson snow coincidence they picked him there, But Dylan
Jones bet on himself and he wanted to be a
first round pick. We saw him at Weaver State and
sure enough of them to trade up for him and
and shipped didn't really ship Keyonte off, but ended up
cutting Keyonte because Dylan Jones was their guy that draft.
Speaker 1: Rest Ashore, I did watch some AJ Mitchell film in
advance of this podcast, and he looks like to me
if TJ. McConnell played with a moral compass. What are
our early impressions of him?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: This one?
Speaker 2: I love that. Yeah, that's fun. He's a fun player. Man.
He again really good feel point guard, has a little
bit of nasty to him, is very competitive, just continues
to fit the bill of what they are looking for.
A lot of people said that they reached Dylan Jones.
I'm not a huge draft guy. I don't get deep
in the weeds because I fall in love with somebody
and then the Thunder don't take them, and then I'm
pissed off for the rest of eternity. You know, shout
out Jaris Walker forever in my heart.
Speaker 1: You may have Dodge Defray trade on that one.
Speaker 2: So apparently they don't like him very much. They keep
just taking more fours and fives and not giving my
man if here's a.
Speaker 1: Wing, and I just I cannot wait to talk to
Kaitlyn Cooper about this. Yes, but I just I don't
see it like I just I don't see him as
a wing. And I'm I don't want say I don't
know what the Pacers are doing, but the way they
view him seems very curious to me. But I'm sure
she will enlighten me in some respects agreed, And I
think the Thunder are doing okay without him, just like.
Speaker 2: For sure, all right, But yeah, a lot of people
said aj Mitchell was like high value for the pick
that they got him at in the second round. They
climbed that second day draft board pretty significantly to get there.
They didn't have a second rounder. They traded Lindy Waters
and then they traded that pick to move up, and
then that pick to move up. I think they moved
up two or three times. So they had very clearly
like zeroed in on him in that second round and
early results from watching him at Summer League, he seems
like a fun player. He'll get a lot of G
League burn this year.
Speaker 1: Oh he's not gonna be like closing games.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe he'll get some time over lou Door. But
the guard glutt as you dubbed it, dan is h
is a little too thick. I think for AJ to
get through all right.
Speaker 1: This one hurts. Are we selling our Ushman Jang stop stock, guys, Taylor.
Speaker 3: I'll kick us off and say yes, but I'm going
to uh to hand this over to Jacob, who's been
leading the train, gone his rants on the uncontested and
no better better time for him to do it now.
Speaker 2: I don't think you can sell the stock because don't
think you're gonna get any money for it.
Speaker 3: That's all you've gotten.
Speaker 1: Then we need to get him to Brooklyn somehow, which
is I agree.
Speaker 2: I Actually I think he is falling into the god
arrest his soul, Alexey Pokashevski Mold the tray Man Mold.
I think he could be good if he got some
fight in him, and if he got an opportunity. That
opportunity is just not there with this team anymore. Two
years ago and you drafted him, you were like, yeah,
there's a long runway because this team isn't gonna be
very good. And then now there are second best odds
to win the finals, so he needs a runway in
a place like Brooklyn. I've said it for a year now.
I think Usman Jang could be a really good player
if like, nothing would make me happier as a human
being than to see Usman Jang walk out on the
court and just sucker punch the shit out of somebody,
Just pull a Draymond Green and try to choke out
Rudy Gobert. He he needs some dog in him desperately,
and I'm afraid there's just no dog. And without the dog,
that the the skill just as never going to come out.
Speaker 3: That's what I was looking for, Thank you, Jacob.
Speaker 1: I just I still won't be able to get over
the rookie year flashes of like you can't contact with
the feel that it felt as like a connector at points,
and so I'd like that he's so fluid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that size, he's he's an alright ship ship.
Speaker 3: I mean like he had an incredible run in the
g League finals. He was the League finals MVP, was assertive,
driving to the rim, finishing through contact. He just won't
do that.
Speaker 2: And then he went to the g Or then he
went to the Summer League and got blocked three times
by Darius Baisley. And at that, I I know when
something is so overcooked it is on fire. And when
you get blocked three times by Darius Baisley in Summer League,
the alarms are going off.
Speaker 1: Jacob, would you care to tell me why Aaron Wiggins
is the most overrated player the NBA per your own opinion?
Speaker 2: So the context was he is so he is overrated
because everybody has an article about him being underrated. To
be clear, you said earlier on this podcast something about
if Cason Wallace can get ten percent better and if
Aaron Wiggins could get fifteen percent better. Just for clarity,
if Aaron Wiggins got fifteen percent better, we're talking prime. MJ.
The dude is incredible. You want to talk about the
ultimate role player. You need someone to come in and
defend a wing. Get Aaron Wiggins off the bench. You
need someone to come in and hit some threes. Get
Aaron Wiggins off the bench. You need someone to come
in and be like a secondary playmaker and move the ball.
Go get Aaron Wiggins off the bench. You need somebody
to mop the floor after the game, Go get Aaron
Wiggins off the bench. The dude. The versatility of him
is incredible. He's like a cult favorite in Oklahoma City.
He does so much stuff, He feels so many needs,
whatever you need on any given night. I am not
ashamed at all to say he is the best Wiggins
playing basketball and Planet Earth right now. He's He's so
good that I think he's becoming overrated because so many
people are now hopping on the Wigan.
Speaker 3: That was our argument on the podcast. If everybody says
the most underrated player in the league is Aaron Wiggins,
is he really underrated anymore?
Speaker 1: That was the This is fun because I disagree strongly
with you two here. I do feel sometimes, and not
just I'm not talking about you guys specifically, but people
who cover or root for that specific team are looking
at it through their lens of how exposed they are
to that player and the discourse around them. I still
would guess to you that if you pulled general NBA
fans who are trying to cover the entire league, Aaron
Wiggins is not going to be someone that the average
NBA fan knows a ton about, and that when you're
talking about underrated players, I don't think you should ever
be talking about. I mean, if you want to have
the discussion who's the most underrated player on their own team,
and that's a separate discusson when you're talking about over
it underrated players in the NBA, Excuse me. I think
you more so have to view it from the view
of twenty nine other fan bases rather than the team
who he represents.
Speaker 2: Totally fair, Totally fair. The dude's a badass.
Speaker 1: At The gimmick too, is that he saved basketball.
Speaker 2: Aaron saved basketball.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so corats Aaron Wiggins on saving.
Speaker 2: A great contract as well. The thunder paid him early
in order to get a better deal he was. They
could have just kept him on roster next year for
like two million dollars. Got the man his money earlier,
and in turn got what was it five years forty six.
Speaker 1: Five years forty five and a team option on the
last year because the right insane deal? Even Isaiah Joe,
I mean you talk about guard screening that dude, I
podcast favorite Isaiah Joe four years forty eight, team options
it on the fourth here because of course why not?
Speaker 2: So isn't it wild that they got him off the
buyout market because the Sixers cut him in camp?
Speaker 1: Or conversely, is he really worth twelve million? If Gary
Trent Junior can't get more than the minimum? That's like
throw some negative thundertakes here, better player than Gary Trent Junior?
But is he worth thirteen times as much as Gary
Trent Junior?
Speaker 2: We did it?
Speaker 1: Are you ready to enter the cookie cutter portion of
the podcast?
Speaker 2: Fellat's do it?
Speaker 3: Can't wait?
Speaker 2: Wait?
Speaker 1: So the first cookie cutter question, Taylor is for you.
Is there anything about this team we haven't discussed yet
that you think is not receiving enough? Should I specify
national attention so that you know we know that we're
not being necessarily just through the thunder.
Speaker 3: Got This is a really tough question. We've covered a
lot of ground. I'm impressed, man, Do you have something
that comes to mind, Jacob, I'm trying to think of
something good just for the sake of the podcast. I
don't know.
Speaker 1: We'll just say that I'm the best interview of all time. Covered.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think the best interviewer of all time. He's
gonna moderate the presidential debate here in a week, we
have Dan fa Valley here.
Speaker 3: God speed Dan.
Speaker 1: I think that's a good time to move right along. Okay,
this question, I guess it's like kind of fairly easy,
but it's also not. The team is at full strength.
You can only play ten players collectively. Can you too
get to a consensus of who the top ten are?
I do feel like they might just have nine locks,
But I'm curious to see what you come up with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, Taylor, I think we both agree the starters
are Shay dor Caruso, dub Chet yep. And the bench
is Hartenstein, Cason Wallace, Isaiah Joe, Aaron Wiggins yep.
Speaker 3: So who's that? Ten's Kenner Williams.
Speaker 2: Nice. I got it.
Speaker 1: So I got this team right Boom When I go
back and look at what I had penciled in for
a last year, and it was like, oh, the Uzman
Jang Hope was still pretty high based off where we.
Speaker 2: Hey, I remember our pod last year we were gassing
the man up.
Speaker 3: We were, and hey, look we're surprised. Don't be surprised
early in the season when you see us get some
of those man's he's the tenth man and Sev Keinrich
we saw that last year.
Speaker 2: Don't be surprised when he gets that tenth man minutes
and gets absolutely flam boyd.
Speaker 3: It won't be much. It won't be much, but they're
going to give him every last avenue to try and
prove himself early in the season. We're talking like four
minutes maybe every once in a while.
Speaker 2: He out to my Saturday morning if he wants.
Speaker 1: That would look that could have maybe been an under
talked about thing about this team is I haven't seen
it yet, but there are people that are gonna say,
there's just too many guys. How are they gonna figure
it out? Mark Diagnolt has just shown ever since he arrived,
and okase he like that. Dude's gonna figure it out
and everyone's gonna play. We're probably gonna see, uh, what's
his name is? Maleve Leon's gonna get any minutes. Didn't
even though that was a real human being until like
a couple months.
Speaker 2: That makes two of us, So I think that it's
worth We just talked through the five off the bench.
Cason Wallace was six highest in minutes, total minutes played
and minutes per game last season, and now you have
Isaiah Hartenstein and Joe and Wiggins on those new contracts.
Like where does Wallace fit in there? Does he go up?
Does he go down? Like it's that's not a bad
question to ask, Like how do they get everybody minutes?
Speaker 1: How did the thunder simultaneously submarine the six man of
the Year case for four different players?
Speaker 2: That's right, very true.
Speaker 1: Let's throw this one to I mean collectively, I think
you can get here. What is I know it'll be
matchup dependant. We already talked about this. We're fastwarding to
the end of the season. What will wind up being
their most used crunch time lineup?
Speaker 2: Ooh, that's a fun question.
Speaker 3: I think it's going to going to be last year
starters minus Giddy obviously with Carusoe in place. But Jacob
and I earlier in the podcast talked about you know,
you said hart and sign might be the bigger impact player.
So I was curious if you go Hart and sign.
Speaker 2: Potentially No, I'd go, I'd go with those guys. I
think they're I would say, I think there's a chance.
Maybe you say about loud Dort for a case and
Wallace or something like that, but I just think they
trust lou Dort so much and late in those games.
It's going to be matchup dependent obviously, but that lineup
is just going to terrorize other teams defensively that you
just you clamp everybody on one end and then you
have Shay and Dub go to work on the other end.
I think that'll be their their closing line up for sure.
Speaker 1: What would be the spot if you're looking at a player,
and I think it's that there's three locks like the SGA,
Chet and jub or non negotiable. What would who would
you see them fuzing and filling with more in that situation?
And Alex Caruso or a lou Dort.
Speaker 3: Between these two that is so tough like the staple
right right exactly, and they trust him on just about
anybody one on one on the prim.
Speaker 2: But Caruso is a two past two years like all
defensive team guy. I always wanna say.
Speaker 3: Dort if he were elsewhere, you know, magic Himalkers.
Speaker 1: I think if you were looking at it from an
offensive perspective, Alex Caruso would probably make more sense. But
there's like lu Dort just doesn't have a problem getting
shots up, and there's value in the volume as well
as the percentage, and so that's like a big difference maker.
That's what I used to use Marcus mart as an
example of. Is No, he's shooting thirty four to thirty
three percent from three. He's had some bad seasons, but
it's he's taking them, and like defenses will react, maybe
not all the time, but they will react to that.
Caruso's a little bit more passive in that regard, so
I actually do think it would be his spot they
would mess with more. And also, how is like lou
Dort I said this about someone out, but he's like
first team all. Him and Hartenstein are first team all
younger than you think that they are. I don't know
if the thunder have just had like eighty different iterations
under him, but Ludor feels like he's been in the
league since nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, it's crazy. So many of those players feel
the same way. But hey, just a spicy segment up
a little bit so we aren't too cookie cutter and
Shay honorable minch yea had been Shay, that's right, Nicole
topic coming back from injury, he's gonna play. Uh, don't
sleep on Isaiah Joe. We saw him come in and
clutch time multiple times throughout last season. He's not going
to answer this question. He's not going to get more
clutch time minutes than Cruiser or Hartenstein. Maybe more than
Hartenstein will see. But we saw Isaiah Joe play some
some big roles there. I mean too. He was starting
in the playoffs instead Josh Giddy and they needed to
make that adjustment. So Isaiah Joe is another one I
would just give an honorable mention.
Speaker 1: I love this question usually more than our guests. We'll
start with you, Jacob. What is a weird, funky, offbeat
lineup you would like to see?
Speaker 3: I love this. This is a great under have so many.
Speaker 2: Weird, funky offbeat lineup that I want to see this season.
Speaker 1: Let's go Cason Wallas at center, k so.
Speaker 2: Lou Dort, Alex Caruso, Jalen Williams, J dub and Isaiah
Hartenstein just for the defense. I mean, that's just a
bunch of dogs. Those are those are some dogs that
are just gonna get after it. That would be a
and a bunch of thick boys too. We mentioned the
boys earlier, like that's a lot of meat on the court.
I'm kind of into that lineup. I think that could
be a really fun one.
Speaker 3: I like that that That's where I was heading as
well as like an all defensive kind of line up there.
But let's get fun and let's just say we throw
a bunch of size out there. Give me Chet, give
me Isaiah Harton sign, give me Dylan Jones, give me
j Dubb there's four and Swan Jang all the length,
all the size.
Speaker 2: Just I was dying last season for the skinny boy
lineup of Chet Poku j at the same time.
Speaker 1: You called them, didn't you call them the Holy Affinity?
I remember dying someone. I don't know if I saw
it or if I heard you guys say, but I
was dying.
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think that was me, because if
I said that, the shirts would have been printed. I
promise you.
Speaker 3: That they is good. We had the thin Tower shirts
going last year. We did that.
Speaker 1: Those I think, honestly, let's put this whole thunder. They
don't care about the size of their players thing to
the test. So give me Alex Caruso, give me Caseon Wallace,
give me Lou Dort, give me Aaron Wiggins. And I'm
torn between who did I say, Dort Caruso, Cason Wallace,
Aaron Wiggins. And like, I'm torn between, Let's just put
Ushman Jang at the five? Or is like, do we
really Williams Kennris Williams is like an actual five. I
didn't pick some not an actual five, like he's played five.
So I'm just gonna go with I'll pick a real
NBA player though here to round out that lineup, I
guess J Dub like that's just yeah, I mean it's just.
Speaker 3: Nobody.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And then passing lines, I.
Speaker 1: Trust Caruso and collectively Caruso, Wiggins and Dort they'll figure
out a way to defend some traditional big men. Oh yeah,
and you know what, let's take an except for that.
Let's roll that line up out against Minnesota's starters.
Speaker 2: Yes, hey, love the Thunder. Love to play the J
Dub Kendrich Williams front court against those Minnesota starters.
Speaker 1: So there.
Speaker 2: I just saw it and it worked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there we go, So let's let's see it, Okay, Taylor.
As we recorded this, the Thunders over under a set
at fifty seven and a half. It was fifty six
and a half. Excuse me, I misspoke. Are you taking
the over or the under?
Speaker 3: Look? I do believe there's there's going to be the
Thunder fans, because there is with every fan base. And
maybe they get off to a little bit of a
soo start because there's the growing pains of trying to
incorporate new players, new big time players, and Hartenstein and
Crusoe thunder fans aren't used to that. This duration of
the Thunder. That being said, I'm hammering the hell out
of you over. I think they're gonna be fifty nine
or sixty wins easy, Jay, even in the West.
Speaker 2: Give me the under. And the reason I say that
is because they had really really good injury luck last season.
Knock on wood, Like I hope to God every NBA
team stays healthy. Uh, it's just an inevitability that somebody
gets hurt at some point in time. So because of that,
because of like that, a little bit of that newness
being gone and teams definitely have them circled on the schedule.
Now give me slightly under.
Speaker 1: I'm I haven't really revealed my over underpicks because we
haven't done our collect to podcast yet, but we did
do a segment where I predicted that the Thunder gonna
win at least sixty five games next year. So I'll
the over and here's my thing.
Speaker 2: You're gonna come right.
Speaker 1: They have these different dynamics on offense, and now if
they had the whole wing thing, someone who's six six
or taller who could create like another guy of that,
I'd feel better about this. But you could tell me
that Shay super fatigued from playing in the Olympics, or
that Jay Dubb for some reasons te or that they
I don't I don't want to throw the injury manifestation
out there, but they could be missing their two best
players in a given night, and the depth is just
so absurd that one there. The defense is never going
to be an issue. But I do think they have
enough to figure out how to score efficiently independent of
their two most important offensive players right now, who are
j Dub and Shay. And that just sells it for me,
is that Okay, even if there's fatigue, I just and
and you know what might be fair, there could be
a drop off from Shae from top two MVP candidate,
Like there's not really much where there's more room for
him to go down than there is at this point.
And it just doesn't to me, It just doesn't matter.
So I will be somewhat shocked if they don't hit
the the over and and like their relative like you
would need to, like the mothership would need to come
and call half this roster home for them to not
hit the the over And it would have.
Speaker 3: To be like the plague of Egypt as seasons what
we called it back when KD was hurt, Russ was hurt,
who else was searching everyone? Every Perry Jones was getting
like sixty minutes a game.
Speaker 2: That was the Sebastian Telfair season. Yes, sat tells you anything.
Speaker 1: Pre guns, pre guns, which are I normally ask where
did these teams stack up in the conference? But I
think we know where the thunder stack up. So, Jacob,
what are some of the teams that you think if
you had to pick one and Taylor You're not gonna
be allowed to pick the same ones. I'm giving you
the short shrift here because you're going second. What is
the team that you look at as the most intriguing
or most concerning problematic matchup for the Thunder.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a great question.
Speaker 1: So Mavericks will be mad if you don't pick them.
Speaker 2: Mavericks fans have been mad at me for forever, so
I have no problem with that at all. I think
the Thunder matchup way better with the Mavericks now than
they did at the playoffs last season. And let's be
very clear, the Thunder were three inches of a shay
Go Justess Alexander leap for a corner three from taking
the Mavericks to Game seven in Oklahoma City when they
shot like incredibly inefficiently. Like It's not like the Mavericks
blew them out in that series. It was a very
very very close series. I think the Thunder matchup even
better now. I mean, now you throw out dort on
Luca and Caruso on Kyrie Irving, and you are able
to slide Dub over to PJ. Washington, who's probably not
going to shoot that well again in his entire lifetime.
I think the Thunder matchup I'm intentionally fueling the Dallas
hate here. I want to manifest it. I'm gonna say,
the Minnesota Timberwolves.
Speaker 1: What is it about them that you think?
Speaker 2: Is am I allowed to? I mean, I've already said
the S word a few times.
Speaker 1: I've dropped way too many F bombs on this podcast. Anyway,
we're at the point where, like Apple, like, we don't
check it, but we're automatically just listed as Yeah, Like
the transcription is just filled.
Speaker 2: With why why is that a worry? Anthony fucking Edwards
is a worry that dude is an absolute killer? Their
size is really good, you know, I'm I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they've got What's interesting about their dual size is
they have dual heft and neither of their big men
like move like a hefty big man. And definitely Karl
Anthony Towns for sure, when you look at what he's
able to do, like going north.
Speaker 2: South, and he really impressed me in the playoffs, Kat
did like he shed a lot of negative stereotypes for
me in the playoffs this year. He played with a
lot of toughness. He really showed up for the moment.
And I just I think Jane McDaniels is disgustingly good,
especially defensively on.
Speaker 1: The one end of the floor, yeah for sure.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think that length can really give a
guy like Shay Godess Alexander problems. So I'm gonna go
Memphis or sorry, not Memphis Minnesota. I'm not worried about Memphis.
Minnesota would be the team that I would say poses
the biggest threat to Oklahoma City, and I would not
be surprised to see both of those teams in the
conference finals this year.
Speaker 1: Taylor can't be the Timberwolves.
Speaker 3: I like that Timberwolves answer, But if we're not taking
playoffs in just regular season, the thunder were only one
in three against the Lakers last year, and they really
struggled with that size of physicality down low. I know
that's not somebody's gonna word me in the playoffs, but
it is somebody they the playoffs.
Speaker 1: What I will say, I don't think the Lakers are
a real threat to anybody right now, but getting if
they have a healthy Gave Vincent and Jared Vanderbilt like,
they can play some like really nasty defensive lineups that
I shouldn't give a bunch of teams problems. I am
surprised that you picked them.
Speaker 2: Though, Taylor.
Speaker 3: With all that, I was just thinking regular seasons, trying
to go through the stats you.
Speaker 2: Had two times, sorry, three times, three time. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: Denver Nuggets is the other team behind.
Speaker 2: I'm also manifesting the Denver hate apparently as well well.
Speaker 3: And again, like anybody else up, there'd probably be the Mavericks,
but I do feel more comfortable with them. Like Jacob mentioned,
so Denver Nuggets in the playoffs. Sure, regular season, though,
I want to see the Thunder take care of the Lakers.
They did not do so last season. I want to
see them do so this year.
Speaker 1: I actually think I do agree with you that they
match up better. This is more directed to Jacob with
the Mavericks than they did last season. I also think
the Mavericks match up even better with the Thunder now
than they did last season, because.
Speaker 3: They are a good point.
Speaker 1: They're fucking huge. They can get to lineups where Luca
like if you pull Kyrie Ring off the court and
just throw Naji Marshall in there. Luka Donc is the
shortest player on the floor, which is wild.
Speaker 2: Now, I don't want to make this a Dallas pod.
I think Dallas also got much worse defensively.
Speaker 1: Ooh no, uh, I mean maybe, well, we'll have to
revisit that. There's no way I is really freaking good.
And Derek Jones, do you want to go to the
Aaron Wiggins route with this? His defensive impact was just
overinflated because it was over he was over indexed. At
one point, they made the trade that got them PJ.
Washington Daniel Gafford, so you had like a forty eight
minutes of solid rimp protection. That's when Derek Jones Junior
started to shine. And I also believe that Quentin Grimes
is probably one of the most underrated editions of the
off season because I was of that dude's career. All
he did was defend at the point of attack, do
it really well, and knock down threes. And so I
would say, is there a chance they got worse defensively
relative to them finishing sixth after the trade deadline or
whatever it was? Maybe, but I framed it as and
maybe I'll be wrong. I'm wrong all the time. When
we go back and regrade the off season, it is
a bloodbath on my end. So that's the caveat. They
improved the offense without getting worse defensively. To your point though,
and I'm I'm really just messing with you all the
credit in the world. I don't know how well they're
gonna defend when you have Clay, Kyrie, and Luca on
the court at the same time. I think it's gonna
take a lot. We've seen Luca defend Okay at points.
We've seen Kyrie like when he gives a damn like
that's someone who will fight. Like can they maintain that
more consistently so that will be fascinating. But I think
between Quentin Grimes and nause Marshall, shame on the Pelicans
are just letting him walk because who wants to pay
the luxury tax?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: I honestly think like Dallas Is I said, they just
made the NBA Finals and I feel like people are
sleeping on them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a fair point. That also, again just channeling
the inner hater. I don't know if I'm as high
on Nausey Marshall as you are, you would be way
more knowledgeable about that than I am. I Also, I
just I really worry about Klay Thompson being able to
just move defensively. I saw Clay up close and personal
last season the injuries to the left leg. Was it?
The left leg just devastating like his whenever you watch
him like up close and personal. That left leg is
like significantly smaller than in the right leg. There's the
muscle atrophy. I worry it's gonna catch up to him
even more than it did last season. But he'll kill
you from three. I mean he can make up for
it on the other end for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean two devastating injuries Achilles and acl is
just like Kevin rant Is coming back and still player,
playing the best defense of his career by the end
of last season. Guys, I kept you for ninety minutes
on this podcast.
Speaker 3: Is there anything we kept you for ninety minutes?
Speaker 1: But is there anything that we didn't discuss? Any takes
you would like to get off before I let you skadato?
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm surprised we haven't talked about the G
League team yet who won the G League title?
Speaker 3: But yeah, that's right. Let's go through the Oka see
blue roster.
Speaker 1: This year, which is story. It'll look like the predictions
over under a four.
Speaker 2: This is the most I have a serious This is
the typical tailor, Dan, You have the opportunity to reel
them in. You didn't do it. I was gonna say,
this is the most thorough and exhaustive Thunder preview I
have done. Kudos to you, Dan, I could not cover
all thirty teams at the level of detail that you do.
You sent us the outline and I'm like, shit, who
does the Thunder podcast here? Dan or me? So I
there is nothing else I could add. Taylor, for the
love of God, brevity, please.
Speaker 3: Hey, I could not agree more. When you sent that
that outline over, I was like, usually I can just
jump on and like, give my my takes for Thunder
previews and we're good to go. And I saw these,
I was like, I need to have some bullet points down.
But for the sake of this, I mean, that's so
boring if I don't have an answer. So, in typical
Taylor passion, I have two. The serious one being even
though Hardin's sign is on the team, do not overrate
the Thunder still going to small ball in that being
their go to with no true center. They've had success
with that in the past. Mark Dayton's not going to
go away from that just because they have two que
unquote centers on the team. That's my serious one. Second one,
I'm gonna leave.
Speaker 1: The list as someone who was in favor of building
the Kenrich Williams Statue. I'm very much glad to hear
that'sens of it.
Speaker 3: We'll see some of it on occasion. My second one,
I'm just going to leave you with. We did a
conspiracy theory off season podcast and my Thunder related one
because you guys have alluded to it. Already talked about
the Charlotte Hornets the Thunder East, but there's also another team,
the Washington Wizards now the Thunder recently recently just hire
the Charlotte Hornets just hired a Thunder scouts like heading
their scouting department, and we've seen all the Thunder players
going over to the Hornets. We've also seen the Wizards
Ran GM and President B ball Ops, two former Thunder
staffers under the Sam Pressy tree. Sam Presty, it's playing chess,
not checkers, man. These are two farm teams from the
Oklahoma City Thunder. When the Usman James and the Poku's
and the trade Man's can't get time here and ok see,
we're sending them elsewhere to develop when we can't draft
the Colabali because he's going too high. We have little
Dowkins do it for us and develop him, and soon
enough we're going to trade for him Checkers.
Speaker 1: Affiliates of That's right.
Speaker 3: It's just like EPL or not EPL. Just like international soccer.
We have these like main clubs and they have all
these other clubs throughout.
Speaker 1: How do they go around them? Back then, though, what
does that look like?
Speaker 3: I mean you saw that I asked Caruso for josh
Kinny string up trade?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: You can after this podcast you can catch Taylor on
Info Wars next, folks.
Speaker 3: That's right with my tenfoil hat on and I will
leave you all with that.
Speaker 1: So can you guys. We'll start with you, Conspiracy Theorist
number one, Taylor, Can you tell our listeners where they
can find you on social media? And then Jacob will
let everyone know where they can just find all the fantastic,
fantastic work. You guys have a lot of kind words
about me. I appreciate it. I'll venmo you afterwards for
the paid promotion of that. Look, they're terrible for business,
but great for my ego. Everyone's always so nice, So
thank you, guys. But tell are you able to just
tell our listeners where they can find.
Speaker 3: Yes, so I promise it. I'll actually have conspiracy theories
all throughout my Twitter account, but you can find me
on at Twitter at Jacob Big to differ at Taylor
Underscore p. Fifteen. I'm Taylor with an eab a word spelling,
and obviously you can find us at the Unscore and
Contestant on socials as well as our YouTube account, which
we really have kind of have leaned into you over
the past season, putting a lot of great content out.
I'll let Jacob take it away with his personals and
also a little more details about the Uncontested.
Speaker 2: I am at Jacob Niffin. It's k and I FFPN.
I don't know my Twitter's a show, So come come
enjoy the ride. We do Thunder podcasts every Wednesday and
Sunday night and then once the season gets here, every
post game. So if you are interesting following along with
what should be one of the most exciting teams in
the league this year no more, the black Eye of
the NBA, come hang out. We would love to have
you guys along for the ride this season.
Speaker 1: I echo everything you said. You can find links to
the Uncontested YouTube and audio podcast in our own podcast
and YouTube description. Thank you guys so much for your
time love the uncontested that I do listen to it
religiously so I can figure out a way to get
offended and then bring it full circle and accuse you
guys of sub sub talking me. I guess that's called
throwing shade.
Speaker 2: One of the kids call it.
Speaker 1: They talk, they throw things around, like who has the
most riz on the thunder And that was fun topic.
So thank you guys so much, and as you know
by now, I will be hitting you up down wise