Speaker 1: What's up, Fellasikos. I am Danna Valley, joined by Mort
Jensen of MBA podcast, fame of Forbes, fame of yah Bolt,
sports Fay, and of holy Man's celebrity. We're gonna talk,
We're gonna overreact. So Pacers Cavaliers Game one and the
rest of the series. I Mort picked the Cavs to
win in five. That has aged about as well as
Cody Zeller's hairline. What are your thoughts? What's your big
biggest takeaway or one biggest overarching thought coming out of
that Game one between India and Cleveland? And why is it? Oh,
Darius Garland might be a little important?
Speaker 2: Yeah that Look, there's been some narrative around the internet
lately that oh, maybe Darius Garland wasn't as crucial. But like,
if you're building that off of the Heat series, you're nuts.
You're just nuts. I will say I also had Cleveland
in five, although I did hedge my bet a little
bit at Jahu inside. I did include maybe six because
those I am for a reason, because I and it's
the only series in the playoffs that I'm probably gonna
do that in because the Pacers. Here's the thing I've
said this to you on this show as well before.
This team has a floor that is so incredibly high,
Like whenever they win games, it's never because it's someone
just going bonkers. It's always this very team oriented thing.
We've seen it all throughout the course of the record
season as well. Like I think they might be the
most consistent team in the NBA. Like I haven't done
the statistical analysis in terms of like how much their
point total swings or their defensive ranking swings, but it
just feels like you absolutely know what you're gonna get
with this team. And it is competitive spirit. It's defense,
its offense, it is them rising to the moment, it's
role players stepping up. It's You're just never at a
point where you feel this though they're gonna lose something
by a getcilient point. You're never there the.
Speaker 1: Last like sixty or seventy games, including the playoffs. That's
definitely the vibe that they've given off. And their defense
has been way better than people expected. And I've I've
been I'm clearly wrong about this series so far, but
I was in front of well I also declared I
was out on them, but I was in front of
other people like no, like this team is a threat,
and me picking the Cavaliers in five, I won underestimated
the significance of the Darius Garland big toe injury. I
thought it was really like, Oh, they were just it's
the heat, that's why they're holding them out. But it
turns out it's not that. And I also just have
all the respect in the world for the Cavs, didn't
have enough for the Pacers, and I think coming out
of Game one there did feel like there was a
level of the Cavs talked a lot about, oh, they
play so fast, we have to be ready, and then
really didn't seem like they were ready for it. But
what I think I've probably under estimated the most about Indiana,
even as I've talked about their functional depth, which I
sort of define as it's not just regular season depth,
it's you can pull these different levers in the playoffs
play different guys go deeper than maybe some other teams,
the number of ways in which they can attack you,
in which they can generate maybe switches that they want
without make it feeling like they're hunting, the different cadences
at which they could play. Now. Ever, since Pascal Siakam
has come here, so they're just I called them the
third best team in the East. I would stand by
that they might prove that the second best team in
the East with the way things are going right now.
I would also caution, though, if I'm the Cavs, I'm
just not panicking like there's just I think there's things
that they could clean up, and aside from the Garland absence,
I do think one of the things that I'm not
sure if you notice this. I know part of it
is ingrained into their base defense, but there was just
too many wide open threes that they conceded to Indy,
and it felt like after the first quarter when Indie
shot like eighty two percent or eighty three percent from
two point range, that Cleveland was like, oh no, we
need to play off more of these shooters, especially if
Jared Allen is like he's gonna be switched on to Haliburton,
and I get that impetus, But when you're not hitting
your threes at the same clip, and when you don't
have Darius Garland to help you maybe climb out of that,
I think you need to play it. I don't even
want to say more straight up, but just like Max
Strews doesn't need to drift over fifteen feet to the
strong side and off his guy because Jared Allen has
switched on to Tyre's Haliburton, Like you live with Tyre's
Haliburton getting in the lane and hope maybe your backside
rotations are better to me, But I thought that was
something that Cleveland has because some teams you look at
it and I would say, like maybe the knicks of
teams that are still alive in the playoffs where if
they get beat doing something specific, Oh, I don't know
if they have the tools to fix this. With Cleveland.
When I watched it, the two things were all right,
Donovan Mitchell's gonna shoot better. Although I do think that
reinforced the importance of Garland. He had Mitchell in that
game one had the second highest usage rate of the
year for himself, so it's like they need Arkland to
kind of help map out the floor.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: But Mitchell will hit more of a shots, and I
just I think Cleveland's defense can be a lot better.
I know there was a lot of talk about their offense,
the shots they missed, and also just I think they
were a minus thirty from three point range. But I
actually think the biggest thing that stood out again, aside
from that All Star sized hole with Daris Garland Nott,
there was Okay, hey, like you need to I don't.
I'm not even saying play up on them more because
you don't want some of their ball handlers to get
by you. But I'm just not freaking out. Like there
was a Jared Walker got in the lane and Cleveland's
defense like working itself, and I'm like, no, no, that
doesn't need to happen.
Speaker 2: I agree, I do have a question there. So because
there's sort of a litmus tests here, we saw at
some point at one point Deantre Hunter more or less
conceding a three to Bendick Mathern, like he just played
off of him. Matherin pulled Upbyni and nailed it. Is
Matherin the type of guy where you feel comfortable doing
that because I can go back and forth a little bit.
Speaker 1: Where are you talking about playing up on him or
just sagging off of him?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Sacking off like because he like he hit forty
four percent in the regular season, he's streaky. So like,
if that is a conscious choice on behalf of Cleveland
to say, look, we are fine, if Benetticte Mathern beats us, right,
I'm I'm I'm probably okay with that specific game plan.
But it's the ripple effect that I probably have an
issue with because when he's when he hit that shot,
they were already had they had it cooking, they had
it brewing, things were working, and I think, as it seems,
you get on this collective role, and it just struck
me as odd that that specific point in time, whenever
everyone else was hitting that Hunter was like no, no, Ben,
It's fine, you can take that three.
Speaker 1: We're like, you know, I think, so what you're saying,
I definitely think that you should be basing it more
off the flow of the game, where it's if we're
not hit our threes and they're like Nie Smith and
Nemhard as an example, we're nine of ten on wide
open threes, and so it's like, okay, like there needs
to be maybe some type of adjustment there. I think
as a player, if you're gonna do that with Benanick
mat like, so he what was Mathren three of five
from three? If I'm Cleveland, I just I if he
does that every game, fine, I guess I was more concerned.
I agree with you, though, like when you're looking at
how the game is unfolding, maybe it's time to be
more aggressive there. But I think I was more concerned about, like, oh,
Indie's actually in their half court offense, right there are
guys getting downhill. It happened with Mathrin, I said it
happened with Walker. I almost get the impetus to overreact
when it's Tyre's Haliburton, but even when it's Andrew Nemhard,
I'm just like you, guys don't need to be flying
around off of other guys. It just it sets up
too many easy looks for the playoff.
Speaker 2: Though apparently that's different. Well that is different.
Speaker 1: Again, fine, but like the Benedick mathm like that, I
think jaris Walker. I saw him have like two that game,
and there's way too much attention paid to him getting
downhill there. So maybe that's the wrong thing to focus on.
But that was sort of the thing that I golomb onto.
But the Mathroom question is a good one because I
think in a vacuum, you just say, oh, if we
lost because Bennick Mathern went seven of nine from three, okay,
you want to stick to that model, But it just
felt too universal, I guess is what I was getting.
Speaker 2: Maybe, yeah, it took.
Speaker 1: Me so long to get here, but that approach felt
like it was too universal and not enough case specific, right.
Speaker 2: And I will say also, I loved how Indy actually
kind of let Donnovan Mitchell be the guy because they
they invited him into the lane several times. It's the
old Vince Carter defense. And for those who are not
as old as me, which is a lot of listeners,
I presume the Vince Carter defense is basically, when he
was in Toronto, he was very dynamic, but he was
inclined to have games where he'd score like thirty one points,
but it'd take him twenty nine shots to get there.
So you kind of gave him some leeway to take
shots because you figure, if he's gonna absorb all those
shots and it's somewhat inefficient, those are shots that's not
going to go to open shooters. Those are shots that
are not going to go to Mo Pete or whoever.
I was out there at that point in Tide like
look that that defense was also applied to Vince when
he made it to New Jersey and was playing with
Richard Jefferson and Jason gidd So like that mentality. To
apply that to Donovan Mitchell because Garland isn't out there,
I thought was smart. They also applied it to tide Rome,
which look, if you're scoring twenty one points in a game,
that's good, but if it takes you twenty shots to
get there, it's less good. Let's just be honest, it's
less good. With Mitchell, thirty three points took him thirty
shots to get there. Thirty eight percent of Evan Mopley's
shots shots in game one or threes, where he's a
six to eleven dynamo who can create his shot down
low virtually whenever he wants. But like they kind of
gave him that perimeter and to decide, hey, you know what,
we were gonna give you space to pull up on
the brake where, by the way, can we just site note,
Dear Evan Wolpley, I know that you've become a better
three point shooter. Love that, by the way, But when
they're backing up like that, that doesn't mean you have
to spot up for three. That means you go to
the rim because you're long, athletic and probably quicker than
they are. Just use it. Because that's a good thing
for you. You actually have the advantage. So like they they
just knew what to do. They read up on it,
they knew exactly how to like goat Cleveland into being
a lesser version of themselves. So good on the Pacers.
They did everything right. Lots of adjustments I assume will
be coming for Kenny Atkinson's troops in game two.
Speaker 1: The other thing I wanted to ask you too, is
what did you make of Cleveland's approach with Tyres Halibert. Well,
I it's you know, it's kind of twofold for me,
is the approach to guarding Tyres Haliburton, who, by the way,
while all these other pacers are hitting these wide open threes,
he was one to five on guarded threes. So you
could argue that, like Cleveland almost got lucky in this,
But again, you're not gonna have Nie Smith and dem
hartsheet as well as they did. Because I guess what
I'm asking is, were you surprised that we just didn't
see more of Isaaca Corro in general or Isaaca Coro
and you know DeAndre Hunter specifically on Tyres Haliburton, and
just based off what you did see, if Cleveland wants
to play this way. I know he didn't have the
when you look at the on off like Evan Mobley
was a minus twenty in this game. But do you
give any merit to the idea that, oh, maybe this
isn't gonna be a Jared Allen series if they're gonna
feel so inclined to to help when he's one of
the guys caught in space.
Speaker 2: This is not something I thought about, So it's it's
pretty difficult to give you an answer on that. Did
I didn't really pay attention unit thing too? Oh has
isok a core like been enough on Tyrus Alburton today?
I generally think Isoka crab tends to play few, a
little too few minutes in the playoffs, especially now. I
understand he's a weird player because if he's not hitting
from the corners, he's he becomes like a fully one
side player, a one way player, and that is just
so tough to live with in the playoffs, especially now
and in the second round where things get tough. But
his defensive versatility I think is very underrated. I wouldn't
hate to see him stick more on Tyree's in the
coming games, but it's not something I thought about. To
just be completely transparent, I.
Speaker 1: Don't trust his offense, like and that's I think that
to your point about how he hasn't played consistently in
the postseason for his careerly where he sees his minutes
tamp down, I really did think this is just something.
Maybe I'm latching onto it because I was wrong about it.
I just thought we were gonna see more of DeAndre
Hunter specifically in those situations. But that might be something
I'm I try is like just he's not the best defender.
He's not super long, but like he does have size
and maybe you could he's big.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like a big six eight long arms like
and and oh, I so I don't remember who wrote this.
This is years ago. I think was it before the draft,
might have been before he was drafted. Someone said in
their pre draft analysis about Hunter, and I agree with
it entirely that when you look at his size, like
his torso is very broad, Like he even like you
we can talk about, oh he's six', eight long, armed
but like he's got a very broad torso, so like
he just takes up this. Much he takes out so
much space and he looks like significantly bigger than what he. Is,
like if you he was listed at six,' ten no
one would BAD and i you'd believe it because he
just looks enormous. Out THERE so i do think the
element of size can definitely be a bit of. A, deterrent.
Speaker 1: Yeah anything else on that, GAME ONE i I don't
i don't really want to boil it DOWN to I
think cleveland's going to hit. More SHOTS but i do.
Speaker 2: HAVE something i do Have Something. ERONIE smith, i know wide,
Open shots that's that's. One thing but he's always been
one of those PLAYERS who i think has been underrated in,
playoff context specifically because. He's, scalable like if you're gonna
give him, those shots you, Know, what yeah he can.
Hit them it's not a, question, of oh if you
up his three, point volume he's probably gonna be. Less,
efficient no you can scale that dude up significantly if the.
Need arises and if you leave him alone behind the
three point line and you do, so regularly he is
going to punish. You consistently so it feels as THOUGH,
the nba and this isn't Just, the cleveland this isn't
just The. Cap leaders it's, GENERALLY speaking i think there
are a lot of teams IN the nba that two
aren't really aware of hot one how good of a
shooter he, Actually Is, nie smith but also just how galable.
HE is i think that is still a secret That
the pacers are very much enjoying because he is so
good and he's so crucial to their play at. The
wingspot he can play down a position to, the two
he can play all the position to, the four like
he Is a swiss. Army knife He's become he's become
a much better rebounder of. LATE now i know he
can let.
Speaker 1: Offensive Rebounds in round one he did and he's so
he's not a like an assist creator in, that sense
but he does move the ball pretty quickly.
Speaker 2: AND regularly i think when, he's in when he's in,
the game the ball doesn't stick with. Him like he
moves it on quickly if he doesn't have a shot
like he's not, a playmaker but he, just knows, OH
yeah i need to get the ball on of my hands,
right Now because i'm not a shot creator like this
is one of those guys who just has complete role
acceptance and that goes so so far in. The postseason
big Kudos TO. Aaron e smith for just being consistently
great at continuing to. Be, UNDERVALUED somehow i don't know
how he.
Speaker 1: Does, it, YEAH look i wrote about him too right
before the start of. The series i'm glad you. Mentioned
him the scalability is like the perfect word, for me.
Even you so like the quicker decision making that he's
kind of honed over the past couple. Of years he
doesn't like shoot an astronomical percentage, on drives which is
someone who will make the quick decision to put the
ball on. The floor he's, pretty strong gets shoulders into guys.
CAN draw i think he drew a foul on a
Drive in, game one AND then i really think. IT'S
big i think he did what he end up with
five fouls in. This one so there will be times
where it's like he might it feels like he might
be in, foul trouble but less series He's. Defending giannis
you seem spend a lot of Time On max Struce in.
Game one so like the fact that you mentioned scale
up or down and this was actually a number to put,
that too is when you look at his positional distribution
of how he defended the one through four. This year
the only players who like matched it like that versatility
in as many Minutes Were jimmy Butler And shake Gild,
just alexander and so it's like not the most, elite company,
you're like You're Using Shaye gild zugdan or be, a
disruptor but just this idea that you have, someone, who
oh he Will, defend giannis but he will also Go Defend,
max strus but like you will also see him go
on to some smaller guards and there will just, be,
Like yeah yanni's eight in, that series but he kind
of limits the way, he plays limits the amount of
help that you're gonna have to send. His way and
it's just that like it you're right underappreciated the best
way to, say IT because i, would SAY like i
Think THE cavs i saw him spend the most TIME
on i thought we were gonna see him More on
mobile a, little BIT but i think we saw Him,
On hunter Jerome, and shreuce three very different players and
MAYBE like i guess you wouldn't call them, like size
but like that's real versatility there and super plug and play.
On offense so THAT is i. Think you at, this
point you probably make the Case That andrew demhard is
just the team's biggest. As Playoff andrew nemhart is an
experience and you get Those moments pepper throughout the regular
season where he's hitting these off the, dribble jumpers but
he just bust out a step back. And drain in
addition to shouldering probably their heaviest at least in, this
series it'll be their heaviest. DEFENSIVE workload i think you
could make the Case For, Nie, smith rciakam Or even turner.
Last series so this team. FUNCTIONAL depth i think we
kind of just put Like The indiana pacers can continue
to prove. Everybody Wrong and i'm not ready to count
Out the calves in, this series but for idiots like
me who are ready to Pick the calves, in five
it does feel like this, one's Destined whether garland Plays
in game two. Or not to.
Speaker 2: GO longer I had nemhart as one of my FIRST
round x factors in a piece Over at yahoo before.
The playoffs it's the one PICK where i felt very
comfortable with THAT because i went in a lot of
different directions with a lot of other teams. And players
that was the one THING where, i, immediately oh we're At, the, pacers,
now Yeah That's. Andrew nemhart he just feels like a
guy who kind of hides himself a little bit in the,
regular season almost, by design, like yeah, You know i'm
gonna do this, eighty percent and like, that's fine we'll
make it through the the. Regular season now we make
it to. The playoffs now's, my, time now. Fresh Legs
now i've got eighty two games under my belt or
however many games. He played now is the time to
roll up my sleeves and go. To work, That's, INTERESTING
like i don't think a lot of players will attag it,
like THAT but i almost have to assume that that's
the plan, for him because the contrast is just. SO stark,
i cannot in any way imagine that he's approaching the
game in the same way in the regular season that
he is in. THE playoffs i kind of refuse to.
Speaker 1: BELIEVE that, i mean if he's Got That jimmy butler gene, in,
him right or do we call It The buddy heal
gen now After that game seven against, oh yeah anything
else on.
Speaker 2: This, series, So Actually, donovan mitchell just BECAUSE like, I
said i thought he got goaded into taking certain shots
and he kind. OF obliged i would like to see
if he goes back to the tape and, it's like you,
know what some of these, Driving, LANES yeah i can,
use them but that DOESN'T mean i have to. Finish
them LIKE maybe i use myself as a little bit of.
A DECOY maybe i break down, the defense maybe we
have some some weak side action cutting to. The basket
because of, THOSE movements i wouldn't, be surprised, you know
to use the tip lasso for, the phrase you know
you shouldn't pass, too may you should pass. Through may
that would be the way to go. ABOUT it i
think he has To Go.
Speaker 1: Jamie tornomerances and with, that said until, next time and,
as always we would to shout out, to one, the only,
The Indelible Frank nila quina