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Speaker 1: What's up, Fellasikos. I am Danna Valley, joined by Mort

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Jensen of MBA podcast, fame of Forbes, fame of yah Bolt,

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sports Fay, and of holy Man's celebrity. We're gonna talk,

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We're gonna overreact. So Pacers Cavaliers Game one and the

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rest of the series. I Mort picked the Cavs to

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win in five. That has aged about as well as

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Cody Zeller's hairline. What are your thoughts? What's your big

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biggest takeaway or one biggest overarching thought coming out of

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that Game one between India and Cleveland? And why is it? Oh,

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Darius Garland might be a little important?

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Speaker 2: Yeah that Look, there's been some narrative around the internet

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lately that oh, maybe Darius Garland wasn't as crucial. But like,

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if you're building that off of the Heat series, you're nuts.

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You're just nuts. I will say I also had Cleveland

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in five, although I did hedge my bet a little

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bit at Jahu inside. I did include maybe six because

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those I am for a reason, because I and it's

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the only series in the playoffs that I'm probably gonna

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do that in because the Pacers. Here's the thing I've

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said this to you on this show as well before.

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This team has a floor that is so incredibly high,

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Like whenever they win games, it's never because it's someone

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just going bonkers. It's always this very team oriented thing.

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We've seen it all throughout the course of the record

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season as well. Like I think they might be the

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most consistent team in the NBA. Like I haven't done

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the statistical analysis in terms of like how much their

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point total swings or their defensive ranking swings, but it

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just feels like you absolutely know what you're gonna get

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with this team. And it is competitive spirit. It's defense,

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its offense, it is them rising to the moment, it's

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role players stepping up. It's You're just never at a

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point where you feel this though they're gonna lose something

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by a getcilient point. You're never there the.

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Speaker 1: Last like sixty or seventy games, including the playoffs. That's

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definitely the vibe that they've given off. And their defense

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has been way better than people expected. And I've I've

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been I'm clearly wrong about this series so far, but

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I was in front of well I also declared I

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was out on them, but I was in front of

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other people like no, like this team is a threat,

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and me picking the Cavaliers in five, I won underestimated

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the significance of the Darius Garland big toe injury. I

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thought it was really like, Oh, they were just it's

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the heat, that's why they're holding them out. But it

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turns out it's not that. And I also just have

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all the respect in the world for the Cavs, didn't

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have enough for the Pacers, and I think coming out

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of Game one there did feel like there was a

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level of the Cavs talked a lot about, oh, they

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play so fast, we have to be ready, and then

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really didn't seem like they were ready for it. But

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what I think I've probably under estimated the most about Indiana,

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even as I've talked about their functional depth, which I

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sort of define as it's not just regular season depth,

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it's you can pull these different levers in the playoffs

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play different guys go deeper than maybe some other teams,

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the number of ways in which they can attack you,

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in which they can generate maybe switches that they want

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without make it feeling like they're hunting, the different cadences

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at which they could play. Now. Ever, since Pascal Siakam

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has come here, so they're just I called them the

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third best team in the East. I would stand by

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that they might prove that the second best team in

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the East with the way things are going right now.

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I would also caution, though, if I'm the Cavs, I'm

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just not panicking like there's just I think there's things

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that they could clean up, and aside from the Garland absence,

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I do think one of the things that I'm not

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sure if you notice this. I know part of it

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is ingrained into their base defense, but there was just

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too many wide open threes that they conceded to Indy,

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and it felt like after the first quarter when Indie

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shot like eighty two percent or eighty three percent from

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two point range, that Cleveland was like, oh no, we

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need to play off more of these shooters, especially if

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Jared Allen is like he's gonna be switched on to Haliburton,

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and I get that impetus, But when you're not hitting

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your threes at the same clip, and when you don't

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have Darius Garland to help you maybe climb out of that,

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I think you need to play it. I don't even

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want to say more straight up, but just like Max

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Strews doesn't need to drift over fifteen feet to the

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strong side and off his guy because Jared Allen has

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switched on to Tyre's Haliburton, Like you live with Tyre's

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Haliburton getting in the lane and hope maybe your backside

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rotations are better to me, But I thought that was

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something that Cleveland has because some teams you look at

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it and I would say, like maybe the knicks of

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teams that are still alive in the playoffs where if

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they get beat doing something specific, Oh, I don't know

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if they have the tools to fix this. With Cleveland.

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When I watched it, the two things were all right,

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Donovan Mitchell's gonna shoot better. Although I do think that

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reinforced the importance of Garland. He had Mitchell in that

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game one had the second highest usage rate of the

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year for himself, so it's like they need Arkland to

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kind of help map out the floor.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: But Mitchell will hit more of a shots, and I

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just I think Cleveland's defense can be a lot better.

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I know there was a lot of talk about their offense,

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the shots they missed, and also just I think they

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were a minus thirty from three point range. But I

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actually think the biggest thing that stood out again, aside

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from that All Star sized hole with Daris Garland Nott,

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there was Okay, hey, like you need to I don't.

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I'm not even saying play up on them more because

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you don't want some of their ball handlers to get

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by you. But I'm just not freaking out. Like there

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was a Jared Walker got in the lane and Cleveland's

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defense like working itself, and I'm like, no, no, that

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doesn't need to happen.

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Speaker 2: I agree, I do have a question there. So because

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there's sort of a litmus tests here, we saw at

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some point at one point Deantre Hunter more or less

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conceding a three to Bendick Mathern, like he just played

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off of him. Matherin pulled Upbyni and nailed it. Is

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Matherin the type of guy where you feel comfortable doing

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that because I can go back and forth a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Where are you talking about playing up on him or

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just sagging off of him?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Sacking off like because he like he hit forty

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four percent in the regular season, he's streaky. So like,

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if that is a conscious choice on behalf of Cleveland

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to say, look, we are fine, if Benetticte Mathern beats us, right,

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I'm I'm I'm probably okay with that specific game plan.

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But it's the ripple effect that I probably have an

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issue with because when he's when he hit that shot,

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they were already had they had it cooking, they had

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it brewing, things were working, and I think, as it seems,

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you get on this collective role, and it just struck

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me as odd that that specific point in time, whenever

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everyone else was hitting that Hunter was like no, no, Ben,

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It's fine, you can take that three.

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Speaker 1: We're like, you know, I think, so what you're saying,

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I definitely think that you should be basing it more

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off the flow of the game, where it's if we're

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not hit our threes and they're like Nie Smith and

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Nemhard as an example, we're nine of ten on wide

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open threes, and so it's like, okay, like there needs

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to be maybe some type of adjustment there. I think

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as a player, if you're gonna do that with Benanick

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mat like, so he what was Mathren three of five

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from three? If I'm Cleveland, I just I if he

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does that every game, fine, I guess I was more concerned.

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I agree with you, though, like when you're looking at

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how the game is unfolding, maybe it's time to be

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more aggressive there. But I think I was more concerned about, like, oh,

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Indie's actually in their half court offense, right there are

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guys getting downhill. It happened with Mathrin, I said it

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happened with Walker. I almost get the impetus to overreact

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when it's Tyre's Haliburton, but even when it's Andrew Nemhard,

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I'm just like you, guys don't need to be flying

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around off of other guys. It just it sets up

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too many easy looks for the playoff.

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Speaker 2: Though apparently that's different. Well that is different.

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Speaker 1: Again, fine, but like the Benedick mathm like that, I

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think jaris Walker. I saw him have like two that game,

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and there's way too much attention paid to him getting

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downhill there. So maybe that's the wrong thing to focus on.

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But that was sort of the thing that I golomb onto.

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But the Mathroom question is a good one because I

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think in a vacuum, you just say, oh, if we

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lost because Bennick Mathern went seven of nine from three, okay,

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you want to stick to that model, But it just

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felt too universal, I guess is what I was getting.

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Speaker 2: Maybe, yeah, it took.

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Speaker 1: Me so long to get here, but that approach felt

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like it was too universal and not enough case specific, right.

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Speaker 2: And I will say also, I loved how Indy actually

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kind of let Donnovan Mitchell be the guy because they

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they invited him into the lane several times. It's the

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old Vince Carter defense. And for those who are not

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as old as me, which is a lot of listeners,

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I presume the Vince Carter defense is basically, when he

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was in Toronto, he was very dynamic, but he was

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inclined to have games where he'd score like thirty one points,

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but it'd take him twenty nine shots to get there.

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So you kind of gave him some leeway to take

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shots because you figure, if he's gonna absorb all those

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shots and it's somewhat inefficient, those are shots that's not

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going to go to open shooters. Those are shots that

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are not going to go to Mo Pete or whoever.

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I was out there at that point in Tide like

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look that that defense was also applied to Vince when

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he made it to New Jersey and was playing with

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Richard Jefferson and Jason gidd So like that mentality. To

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apply that to Donovan Mitchell because Garland isn't out there,

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I thought was smart. They also applied it to tide Rome,

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which look, if you're scoring twenty one points in a game,

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that's good, but if it takes you twenty shots to

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get there, it's less good. Let's just be honest, it's

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less good. With Mitchell, thirty three points took him thirty

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shots to get there. Thirty eight percent of Evan Mopley's

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shots shots in game one or threes, where he's a

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six to eleven dynamo who can create his shot down

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low virtually whenever he wants. But like they kind of

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gave him that perimeter and to decide, hey, you know what,

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we were gonna give you space to pull up on

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the brake where, by the way, can we just site note,

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Dear Evan Wolpley, I know that you've become a better

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three point shooter. Love that, by the way, But when

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they're backing up like that, that doesn't mean you have

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to spot up for three. That means you go to

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the rim because you're long, athletic and probably quicker than

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they are. Just use it. Because that's a good thing

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for you. You actually have the advantage. So like they they

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just knew what to do. They read up on it,

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they knew exactly how to like goat Cleveland into being

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a lesser version of themselves. So good on the Pacers.

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They did everything right. Lots of adjustments I assume will

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be coming for Kenny Atkinson's troops in game two.

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Speaker 1: The other thing I wanted to ask you too, is

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what did you make of Cleveland's approach with Tyres Halibert. Well,

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I it's you know, it's kind of twofold for me,

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is the approach to guarding Tyres Haliburton, who, by the way,

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while all these other pacers are hitting these wide open threes,

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he was one to five on guarded threes. So you

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could argue that, like Cleveland almost got lucky in this,

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But again, you're not gonna have Nie Smith and dem

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hartsheet as well as they did. Because I guess what

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I'm asking is, were you surprised that we just didn't

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see more of Isaaca Corro in general or Isaaca Coro

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and you know DeAndre Hunter specifically on Tyres Haliburton, and

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just based off what you did see, if Cleveland wants

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to play this way. I know he didn't have the

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when you look at the on off like Evan Mobley

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was a minus twenty in this game. But do you

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give any merit to the idea that, oh, maybe this

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isn't gonna be a Jared Allen series if they're gonna

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feel so inclined to to help when he's one of

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the guys caught in space.

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Speaker 2: This is not something I thought about, So it's it's

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pretty difficult to give you an answer on that. Did

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I didn't really pay attention unit thing too? Oh has

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isok a core like been enough on Tyrus Alburton today?

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I generally think Isoka crab tends to play few, a

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little too few minutes in the playoffs, especially now. I

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understand he's a weird player because if he's not hitting

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from the corners, he's he becomes like a fully one

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side player, a one way player, and that is just

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so tough to live with in the playoffs, especially now

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and in the second round where things get tough. But

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his defensive versatility I think is very underrated. I wouldn't

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hate to see him stick more on Tyree's in the

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coming games, but it's not something I thought about. To

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just be completely transparent, I.

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Speaker 1: Don't trust his offense, like and that's I think that

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to your point about how he hasn't played consistently in

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the postseason for his careerly where he sees his minutes

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tamp down, I really did think this is just something.

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Maybe I'm latching onto it because I was wrong about it.

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I just thought we were gonna see more of DeAndre

255
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Hunter specifically in those situations. But that might be something

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I'm I try is like just he's not the best defender.

257
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He's not super long, but like he does have size

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and maybe you could he's big.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like a big six eight long arms like

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and and oh, I so I don't remember who wrote this.

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This is years ago. I think was it before the draft,

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might have been before he was drafted. Someone said in

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their pre draft analysis about Hunter, and I agree with

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it entirely that when you look at his size, like

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his torso is very broad, Like he even like you

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we can talk about, oh he's six', eight long, armed

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but like he's got a very broad torso, so like

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he just takes up this. Much he takes out so

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much space and he looks like significantly bigger than what he. Is,

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like if you he was listed at six,' ten no

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one would BAD and i you'd believe it because he

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just looks enormous. Out THERE so i do think the

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element of size can definitely be a bit of. A, deterrent.

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Speaker 1: Yeah anything else on that, GAME ONE i I don't

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i don't really want to boil it DOWN to I

276
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think cleveland's going to hit. More SHOTS but i do.

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Speaker 2: HAVE something i do Have Something. ERONIE smith, i know wide,

278
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Open shots that's that's. One thing but he's always been

279
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one of those PLAYERS who i think has been underrated in,

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playoff context specifically because. He's, scalable like if you're gonna

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give him, those shots you, Know, what yeah he can.

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Hit them it's not a, question, of oh if you

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up his three, point volume he's probably gonna be. Less,

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efficient no you can scale that dude up significantly if the.

285
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Need arises and if you leave him alone behind the

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three point line and you do, so regularly he is

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going to punish. You consistently so it feels as THOUGH,

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00:14:45,399 --> 00:14:48,440
the nba and this isn't Just, the cleveland this isn't

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00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,480
just The. Cap leaders it's, GENERALLY speaking i think there

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are a lot of teams IN the nba that two

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00:14:52,919 --> 00:14:56,039
aren't really aware of hot one how good of a

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00:14:56,039 --> 00:15:00,679
shooter he, Actually Is, nie smith but also just how galable.

293
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HE is i think that is still a secret That

294
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,720
the pacers are very much enjoying because he is so

295
00:15:07,879 --> 00:15:11,159
good and he's so crucial to their play at. The

296
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,159
wingspot he can play down a position to, the two

297
00:15:14,279 --> 00:15:16,799
he can play all the position to, the four like

298
00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,600
he Is a swiss. Army knife He's become he's become

299
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:21,960
a much better rebounder of. LATE now i know he

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00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:22,480
can let.

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Speaker 1: Offensive Rebounds in round one he did and he's so

302
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,840
he's not a like an assist creator in, that sense

303
00:15:31,879 --> 00:15:33,919
but he does move the ball pretty quickly.

304
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Speaker 2: AND regularly i think when, he's in when he's in,

305
00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,080
the game the ball doesn't stick with. Him like he

306
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:42,960
moves it on quickly if he doesn't have a shot

307
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,960
like he's not, a playmaker but he, just knows, OH

308
00:15:46,039 --> 00:15:47,360
yeah i need to get the ball on of my hands,

309
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,799
right Now because i'm not a shot creator like this

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00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,360
is one of those guys who just has complete role

311
00:15:53,399 --> 00:15:58,279
acceptance and that goes so so far in. The postseason

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00:15:58,919 --> 00:16:02,360
big Kudos TO. Aaron e smith for just being consistently

313
00:16:03,399 --> 00:16:06,600
great at continuing to. Be, UNDERVALUED somehow i don't know

314
00:16:06,639 --> 00:16:07,000
how he.

315
00:16:07,039 --> 00:16:10,240
Speaker 1: Does, it, YEAH look i wrote about him too right

316
00:16:10,279 --> 00:16:12,159
before the start of. The series i'm glad you. Mentioned

317
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,679
him the scalability is like the perfect word, for me.

318
00:16:14,679 --> 00:16:16,679
Even you so like the quicker decision making that he's

319
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:18,360
kind of honed over the past couple. Of years he

320
00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:21,320
doesn't like shoot an astronomical percentage, on drives which is

321
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,000
someone who will make the quick decision to put the

322
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,000
ball on. The floor he's, pretty strong gets shoulders into guys.

323
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,360
CAN draw i think he drew a foul on a

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00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,559
Drive in, game one AND then i really think. IT'S

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00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:31,960
big i think he did what he end up with

326
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,240
five fouls in. This one so there will be times

327
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:35,919
where it's like he might it feels like he might

328
00:16:35,919 --> 00:16:39,080
be in, foul trouble but less series He's. Defending giannis

329
00:16:39,519 --> 00:16:42,120
you seem spend a lot of Time On max Struce in.

330
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,639
Game one so like the fact that you mentioned scale

331
00:16:44,759 --> 00:16:47,679
up or down and this was actually a number to put,

332
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,559
that too is when you look at his positional distribution

333
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,519
of how he defended the one through four. This year

334
00:16:54,919 --> 00:16:58,320
the only players who like matched it like that versatility

335
00:16:58,399 --> 00:17:00,840
in as many Minutes Were jimmy Butler And shake Gild,

336
00:17:00,919 --> 00:17:03,600
just alexander and so it's like not the most, elite company,

337
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:05,720
you're like You're Using Shaye gild zugdan or be, a

338
00:17:05,759 --> 00:17:09,000
disruptor but just this idea that you have, someone, who

339
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:12,640
oh he Will, defend giannis but he will also Go Defend,

340
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:14,440
max strus but like you will also see him go

341
00:17:14,519 --> 00:17:16,799
on to some smaller guards and there will just, be,

342
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,799
Like yeah yanni's eight in, that series but he kind

343
00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:22,440
of limits the way, he plays limits the amount of

344
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,720
help that you're gonna have to send. His way and

345
00:17:24,759 --> 00:17:28,079
it's just that like it you're right underappreciated the best

346
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:30,400
way to, say IT because i, would SAY like i

347
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,279
Think THE cavs i saw him spend the most TIME

348
00:17:32,319 --> 00:17:33,640
on i thought we were gonna see him More on

349
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,519
mobile a, little BIT but i think we saw Him,

350
00:17:35,559 --> 00:17:40,279
On hunter Jerome, and shreuce three very different players and

351
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:42,480
MAYBE like i guess you wouldn't call them, like size

352
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,839
but like that's real versatility there and super plug and play.

353
00:17:45,839 --> 00:17:48,200
On offense so THAT is i. Think you at, this

354
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:50,079
point you probably make the Case That andrew demhard is

355
00:17:50,079 --> 00:17:53,200
just the team's biggest. As Playoff andrew nemhart is an

356
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,799
experience and you get Those moments pepper throughout the regular

357
00:17:55,839 --> 00:17:57,839
season where he's hitting these off the, dribble jumpers but

358
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,160
he just bust out a step back. And drain in

359
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,920
addition to shouldering probably their heaviest at least in, this

360
00:18:04,039 --> 00:18:06,319
series it'll be their heaviest. DEFENSIVE workload i think you

361
00:18:06,319 --> 00:18:09,400
could make the Case For, Nie, smith rciakam Or even turner.

362
00:18:09,759 --> 00:18:13,279
Last series so this team. FUNCTIONAL depth i think we

363
00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,079
kind of just put Like The indiana pacers can continue

364
00:18:16,079 --> 00:18:17,799
to prove. Everybody Wrong and i'm not ready to count

365
00:18:17,799 --> 00:18:20,240
Out the calves in, this series but for idiots like

366
00:18:20,279 --> 00:18:22,000
me who are ready to Pick the calves, in five

367
00:18:22,039 --> 00:18:25,480
it does feel like this, one's Destined whether garland Plays

368
00:18:25,519 --> 00:18:26,559
in game two. Or not to.

369
00:18:26,599 --> 00:18:32,640
Speaker 2: GO longer I had nemhart as one of my FIRST

370
00:18:32,759 --> 00:18:37,559
round x factors in a piece Over at yahoo before.

371
00:18:37,599 --> 00:18:41,279
The playoffs it's the one PICK where i felt very

372
00:18:41,319 --> 00:18:43,519
comfortable with THAT because i went in a lot of

373
00:18:43,519 --> 00:18:46,000
different directions with a lot of other teams. And players

374
00:18:46,599 --> 00:18:49,680
that was the one THING where, i, immediately oh we're At, the, pacers,

375
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:54,319
now Yeah That's. Andrew nemhart he just feels like a

376
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,400
guy who kind of hides himself a little bit in the,

377
00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,839
regular season almost, by design, like yeah, You know i'm

378
00:19:00,839 --> 00:19:04,720
gonna do this, eighty percent and like, that's fine we'll

379
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,480
make it through the the. Regular season now we make

380
00:19:07,519 --> 00:19:10,920
it to. The playoffs now's, my, time now. Fresh Legs

381
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,359
now i've got eighty two games under my belt or

382
00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,079
however many games. He played now is the time to

383
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,279
roll up my sleeves and go. To work, That's, INTERESTING

384
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,200
like i don't think a lot of players will attag it,

385
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,480
like THAT but i almost have to assume that that's

386
00:19:24,519 --> 00:19:28,680
the plan, for him because the contrast is just. SO stark,

387
00:19:29,319 --> 00:19:35,319
i cannot in any way imagine that he's approaching the

388
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,720
game in the same way in the regular season that

389
00:19:37,839 --> 00:19:40,039
he is in. THE playoffs i kind of refuse to.

390
00:19:40,039 --> 00:19:44,759
Speaker 1: BELIEVE that, i mean if he's Got That jimmy butler gene, in,

391
00:19:44,839 --> 00:19:46,240
him right or do we call It The buddy heal

392
00:19:46,319 --> 00:19:49,640
gen now After that game seven against, oh yeah anything

393
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:50,079
else on.

394
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:54,079
Speaker 2: This, series, So Actually, donovan mitchell just BECAUSE like, I

395
00:19:54,079 --> 00:19:56,519
said i thought he got goaded into taking certain shots

396
00:19:56,559 --> 00:19:59,720
and he kind. OF obliged i would like to see

397
00:19:59,799 --> 00:20:02,240
if he goes back to the tape and, it's like you,

398
00:20:02,319 --> 00:20:05,720
know what some of these, Driving, LANES yeah i can,

399
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,160
use them but that DOESN'T mean i have to. Finish

400
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,039
them LIKE maybe i use myself as a little bit of.

401
00:20:11,079 --> 00:20:14,000
A DECOY maybe i break down, the defense maybe we

402
00:20:14,079 --> 00:20:18,319
have some some weak side action cutting to. The basket

403
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,880
because of, THOSE movements i wouldn't, be surprised, you know

404
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,200
to use the tip lasso for, the phrase you know

405
00:20:25,279 --> 00:20:27,920
you shouldn't pass, too may you should pass. Through may

406
00:20:28,599 --> 00:20:31,400
that would be the way to go. ABOUT it i

407
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:32,480
think he has To Go.

408
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:37,319
Speaker 1: Jamie tornomerances and with, that said until, next time and,

409
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,640
as always we would to shout out, to one, the only,

410
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,960
The Indelible Frank nila quina