Speaker 1: When it comes to true crime, survivor stories are often
Speaker 1: harder to hear. The extreme trauma someone can endure than
Speaker 1: stand tall after being torn down is nothing short of incredible.
Speaker 1: Today's story is one of a survivor, one from a
Speaker 1: little girl who was taken at the age of eleven
Speaker 1: years old and forced to live in a shed to
Speaker 1: become someone's personal sex slave. This survivor has gone on
Speaker 1: to tell their story in great detail and advocates for
Speaker 1: many who have suffered similar ordeals. She shares her experiences
Speaker 1: to tell and ensure others do not feel alone. And
Speaker 1: today we aim to do her story justice and tell
Speaker 1: her story in the same manner she would. This is
Speaker 1: the story of a stolen life. This is the story
Speaker 1: of J. C. Dugert. My name's Ben, I'm.
Speaker 2: Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked Ingram, a true crime podcast.
Speaker 1: The following audience listener Right before Nicole hit record, I
Speaker 1: just took like thirty seconds trying to fish a husky
Speaker 1: dog hair out of my mouth quite aggressively.
Speaker 2: It was something to watch that.
Speaker 1: It was like, in there, that's the plight of owning
Speaker 1: two shedding huskies in a tiny homes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they seem like they're just shedding extra this year,
Speaker 2: Like it's not stopping.
Speaker 1: It's not Well, there's there's someone out there who does
Speaker 1: an incredible grooming for us, shout out to Demi. But
Speaker 1: even after she like fully groomed these dogs, they came
Speaker 1: home and they're just like still shedding.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just not stopping.
Speaker 1: Not stopping. And the amount of hair she pulled off
Speaker 1: them was ridiculous. They looked great, felt great, but they
Speaker 1: just they just kept shedding. No matter what.
Speaker 2: It's a husky thing.
Speaker 1: It's a husky thing. Yep, give it.
Speaker 2: We got some big news here.
Speaker 1: We do drop it.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. So we have our two hundredth epic.
Speaker 2: I know, I said the kind of the two hundred
Speaker 2: and we're doing a live recording of that at Trench
Speaker 2: on Wednesday, and it has sold out.
Speaker 1: Its officially sold out, which means no tickets to the
Speaker 1: door available. Yeah, all the tickets are sold, are sold.
Speaker 1: And that's that's it.
Speaker 2: That's wild, Like, thank you so much. It's kind of
Speaker 2: blown us away, a been, no kidding.
Speaker 1: It's going to be a good time. We're going to
Speaker 1: have some drinks, do some door prizes. Record the episode live.
Speaker 1: We will also be live streaming it for patrons, So
Speaker 1: we've had a lot of patrons sign up recently, I
Speaker 1: think probably preemptively for.
Speaker 2: That they can tune in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then also so I mean a lot of
Speaker 1: the live will be catching a lot more than what
Speaker 1: will go up on the actual episode, because we're gonna
Speaker 1: be releasing it as a real episode and video format
Speaker 1: on YouTube as well. But yeah, it'll be the the
Speaker 1: edited version on YouTube at a later date that comes.
Speaker 2: Out basically just the recording, not the rest of the
Speaker 2: Shenanigansay pretty much.
Speaker 1: There might be a couple of odds and nand's put
Speaker 1: in here, but it'll it'll be mostly just the episode.
Speaker 1: So yeah, but yeah, it's completely sold out and I
Speaker 1: think we have a lot of patrons to thank for
Speaker 1: that as well. So first off, thank you to everyone
Speaker 1: who bought tickets who's going to be joining us locally,
Speaker 1: and thank you to those patrons who signed up this week,
Speaker 1: which are Kerrie d Lucas, Eslick, Jacob Rodriguez, Chloe Cheeseman,
Speaker 1: Ronda Sellers, Bailey Nova, Jillian Rodriguez, excuse me, I arted
Speaker 1: by Crystal Jess, Crystal P and the Doggies shout out
Speaker 1: to the Doggies specifically and.
Speaker 2: Nat nice, So thank you guys. Wow awesome.
Speaker 1: Not to mention the day of the live recording, which
Speaker 1: is tomorrow, they also get an exclusive Patreon episode that
Speaker 1: drops to right which I haven't researched yet. So I've
Speaker 1: really got to get my uh my gears in gear.
Speaker 1: The ball rolling, Yeah, I gotta get my ass in gears,
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's kind of crunch time. We've got a
Speaker 2: lot going on right now.
Speaker 1: So we do, but it's going to be a good time.
Speaker 1: We're going to see everyone down at a trans bring in.
Speaker 2: Distilling, and you want to know something we're doing that.
Speaker 2: I decided like, basically in the middle of the night yesterday,
Speaker 2: what's that at the very end of our podcast, we
Speaker 2: always say something.
Speaker 1: Right, Oh no, I that was already gonna happen.
Speaker 2: Okay, no, yeah, people are going We're going to have
Speaker 2: a live audience saying that, and I'm like stoked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was just to give up.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I thought of ordered at two in the
Speaker 2: morning last night, and I was like, that's a good idea.
Speaker 1: Now it's one hundred percent. Also, we could do that
Speaker 1: in the intro too, It's like, my name's Ben, I'm Nicole,
Speaker 1: and this is yeah, yeah, we.
Speaker 2: Can do like, oh yeah, this is okay.
Speaker 1: True crime podcast. Maybe I don't know. Anyways, Yeah, we
Speaker 1: digress onto the episode. This is the story of J. C. Dugert.
Speaker 1: It's a heavy one. I'm going to warn everyone about
Speaker 1: that right now because it does involve a sexual assault
Speaker 1: and a minor But I did read J. C. Duggerd's book,
Speaker 1: A Stolen Life, and we are really trying to stick
Speaker 1: true to how she tells it. She is a survivor
Speaker 1: and she's going out there on a limb sharing her experiences.
Speaker 1: No matter how dark they are, she's sharing them. And
Speaker 1: I think it's to try and you know, bring light
Speaker 1: to these sort of situations and be an advocate for
Speaker 1: those people who are suffering from this sort of thing.
Speaker 1: So I'm really trying to make sure that while I
Speaker 1: steer clear of some graphic details in nature, I do
Speaker 1: tell it as she would want it to be told to,
Speaker 1: So heads up on that it is a sensitive episode.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that sounds good. I'm sure that you're going to.
Speaker 1: Do it justice, I hope. So it's a lot like honestly,
Speaker 1: this could be a freaking twelve part episode if I
Speaker 1: really wanted to. Because she even has another book as well,
Speaker 1: and I only dove into.
Speaker 2: This she Okay, I didn't realize she had too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I talk about both books. I mentioned them
Speaker 1: both later, But one is basically the captive side of it,
Speaker 1: and one is like the after and like getting back
Speaker 1: out and like learning to live again.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, my gosh.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So you ready for this?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, this is one case I actually feel
Speaker 2: like I know a fair amount about. But I'm sure
Speaker 2: I'll still like.
Speaker 1: Learn quite a bit, probably, And I've been researching this
Speaker 1: one for a while, probably a good month or two.
Speaker 1: I would really put my effort into doing this one.
Speaker 2: Justice good good.
Speaker 1: So here we go. You ready, all right? So?
Speaker 2: J C.
Speaker 1: Lee Dugard was born on May third, nineteen eighty. She
Speaker 1: was born in Anaheim, California, to Terry Probin and Ken
Speaker 1: Stalton's Wow, Slayton, there we go. I'm already butchering at
Speaker 1: my apologies now. Despite her parents' later separation when she
Speaker 1: was younger, Jac's early childhood was marked by a strong
Speaker 1: sense of love and family. Her mother, Terry, would later
Speaker 1: marry to a carpet contractor named Carl Proben, hence why
Speaker 1: Terry Probin's name.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 1: With her new stepfather now in the family, they moved
Speaker 1: from Arcadia, California, in Los Angeles County to Myers, which
Speaker 1: is a rural town south of South Lake Tahoe. And
Speaker 1: they moved here specifically because it was a nice, safe community,
Speaker 1: you know, a good place for a family. Right up bringing,
Speaker 1: This is where Jace would grow up, surrounded by natural
Speaker 1: beauty of the Sierra Nevada Mountains, gorgeous area country.
Speaker 2: It's beautiful, totally. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Jace had this close knit family life with her
Speaker 1: mother and stepfather and her younger half sister, Shana, who
Speaker 1: was born a few years later in nineteen ninety. So
Speaker 1: this was Carl's biological daughter with Jac's mother. So now
Speaker 1: the probe and household was a place of warmth and love,
Speaker 1: but it was not without its challenges. Jace's relationship with
Speaker 1: her stepfather, Carl was rather strained at times. Carl was
Speaker 1: a stern and disciplined man, often had high expectations and
Speaker 1: some pretty strict rules, which occasionally led to conflicts with
Speaker 1: more sensitive and gentle natured Jace. Right, so, to make
Speaker 1: matters worse, he often seemed to treat Jace a little
Speaker 1: bit different than her younger half sister Shane as well,
Speaker 1: who is Carl's, as I mentioned, biological daughter. And I
Speaker 1: think that's a struggle that many families unfortunately have to
Speaker 1: juggle with, and I could imagine it's it would be
Speaker 1: a sensitive thing for many families.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's tough for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, while Karl did care for jac and took
Speaker 1: on a role of a provider, their emotional connection was
Speaker 1: often strained and occasionally led to these conflicts, contributing to
Speaker 1: a sense of disparity and insecurity within JC. Now it's
Speaker 1: not that Karl was a bad man. It was his
Speaker 1: parenting techniques and rules that grew some difficulties within the relationship.
Speaker 1: And potentially maybe he did have a little softer spot
Speaker 1: for his biological daughter and that could have contributed to
Speaker 1: it as well. Some of the things that he would do,
Speaker 1: for example, is Jace would like scarf her food too
Speaker 1: fast and kind of look like a pig at the
Speaker 1: table sort of thing. I don't know if it's like
Speaker 1: elbows on the table or what. She's just kind of
Speaker 1: making a bit of a mess so at one point
Speaker 1: he took her plate to the bathroom and made her
Speaker 1: eat her dinner in front of a mirror so she
Speaker 1: could see herself as she's eating. Okay, some things like that,
Speaker 1: Like it's some strict parroting. It's not like he's being
Speaker 1: an asshole, but it's like.
Speaker 2: Not like a beau, well necessarily abusing.
Speaker 1: But yeah, he's being a hard ass sort of thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but he did care for Jace, so benefit to him
Speaker 1: for that. And when this later all plays out, he
Speaker 1: was heartbroken over it. So Jac's mother, Terry, worked hard
Speaker 1: to maintain a balance within the family, providing a nurturing
Speaker 1: and supportive environment for both of her children. She balanced
Speaker 1: work and family life with great care, ensuring that Jace
Speaker 1: and Shana had everything that they needed. Jace, though having
Speaker 1: some high expectations put upon her, did lead a good life,
Speaker 1: and her early years were filled with joy and the
Speaker 1: simple pleasures of life too. She enjoyed exploring the natural
Speaker 1: beauty of her surroundings playing outdoors. She was also an
Speaker 1: animal lover as well, from a very young age, with
Speaker 1: a particular fondness for cats. She often dreamed becoming a veterinarian.
Speaker 1: One day when she got older.
Speaker 2: Oh, I love that.
Speaker 1: At Meyers Elementary School, Jacey was known for her sweet
Speaker 1: and gentle personality. Though she was somewhat shy and introverted,
Speaker 1: she was well liked by her peers and teachers. Jacey
Speaker 1: enjoyed learning and was rather diligent as a student, and
Speaker 1: took pride in her school work and loved to draw
Speaker 1: and paint. Now Terry, her mother worked hard to maintain
Speaker 1: all this balance right, making sure that everything was perfect,
Speaker 1: but a parent can only do so much. On the
Speaker 1: morning of June tenth, nineteen ninety one, eleven year old
Speaker 1: Jacy was getting ready for school just like any other day.
Speaker 1: It initially started with her waiting in bed for her
Speaker 1: mom to come up and give her a good morning kiss,
Speaker 1: which was a typical morning routine. Didn't happen every day,
Speaker 1: but you know, whenever it didn't happen, she would be
Speaker 1: sure to remind her mother that she forgot.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, that's adorable.
Speaker 1: But soon Jace heard the front door close, which meant
Speaker 1: today her mother had forgotten. She laid in bed for
Speaker 1: a few more minutes, and her alarm went off and
Speaker 1: she crawled out of bed began to get ready, and
Speaker 1: this included placing a ring on her finger. She was
Speaker 1: looking for a specific one but couldn't quite find it,
Speaker 1: so instead she placed one on her finger that was
Speaker 1: a little bit older. It was a nice, delicate silver
Speaker 1: butterfly ring that her mother had given her for her
Speaker 1: seventh birthday, a gift that she still treasured to this day.
Speaker 1: After scarfing down a bowl of oatmeal and grabbing her backpack,
Speaker 1: Jacey headed out the front door to school. Now, today
Speaker 1: wasn't supposed to be a regular school day, though, Today
Speaker 1: was a school field trip to a local water park
Speaker 1: and everyone was looking forward to it. The excitement was
Speaker 1: building towards this day. Jace was excited just like everyone else,
Speaker 1: and she even wore her favorite all pink outfit in
Speaker 1: anticipation for the big day. As she walked up to
Speaker 1: her bus stop from the hill that went upwards from
Speaker 1: her house, she got to the point where she was
Speaker 1: taught by both her mother and Carl to cross the
Speaker 1: road to continue walking. This was so oncoming traffic could
Speaker 1: see her better. Right she did, she always did, and crossed,
Speaker 1: and while thinking of everything that the day was going
Speaker 1: to hold, her mind began to wander. She was so
Speaker 1: lost in thought, in fact, that she didn't even notice
Speaker 1: the car that pulled right up beside her. She initially
Speaker 1: thought it was just going to pass like any other vehicle,
Speaker 1: but instead it stopped. In that instant, a hand shot
Speaker 1: out from the window and zaps JC with a taser gun. Jace,
Speaker 1: now not knowing what just hit her, began to stumble
Speaker 1: backwards into the bush and on the side of the road.
Speaker 1: She lost her footing and is now not laying on
Speaker 1: the ground, but she's on the ground right, yeah, And
Speaker 1: she lost control of most of her body functions. She
Speaker 1: couldn't run, she couldn't stand up, she couldn't do anything,
Speaker 1: and as this man now stepped out of the vehicle,
Speaker 1: looming over top of her. The taser, as I mentioned,
Speaker 1: left her unable to do many things, which even included
Speaker 1: her losing control of her bladder, and she wet her
Speaker 1: favorite pink pants. The man quickly scooped her up and
Speaker 1: placed her in the back seat of the car onto
Speaker 1: the floor. He threw a blanket over her head and
Speaker 1: drove off, with jac now passing out and a prisoner,
Speaker 1: and him saying, I can't believe we just got away
Speaker 1: with it.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that is just oh, it's terrifying too much. Oh,
Speaker 2: that's just too much. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, and this whole situation is, this is supposed to
Speaker 1: be a safe community. Yeah, this is supposed to be
Speaker 1: somewhere where families can be and feel safe and kids
Speaker 1: can go outside and play, and you know, like j.
Speaker 2: She's literally just walking to the school bus.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And Jac in her book recounts like, you know,
Speaker 1: like getting a ride to school before, but now like recently,
Speaker 1: she's like, you know, walking to the school bus and stuff.
Speaker 1: She's growing up. She's learning. Yeah, she's learning these responsibilities.
Speaker 1: And this is supposed to be an environment where kids
Speaker 1: can learn those responsibilities. And unfortunately, all it takes is
Speaker 1: one bad apple.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No one would like ever have imagined something like
Speaker 2: that to ever happen.
Speaker 1: So the man, though, wasn't the only person in the car,
Speaker 1: and there was a woman as well, and between the
Speaker 1: two of them they now had just officially taken JC. Now,
Speaker 1: Jac's stepfather, Carl was in the garage getting ready to
Speaker 1: leave for work, and he actually witnessed Jac's abduction just
Speaker 1: up the hill from their house.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, Okay, I don't think I knew.
Speaker 1: That he immediately grabbed the closest thing to him, which
Speaker 1: was a bicycle, and attempted to chase down the car,
Speaker 1: but he quickly realized he couldn't do anything to catch
Speaker 1: the car that was speeding away, and he turned around,
Speaker 1: returned home to call Terry to alert her, and immediately
Speaker 1: after telling her, he contacted authorities to report what had
Speaker 1: just happened.
Speaker 2: Wow, that just made my heart sink.
Speaker 1: Within hours of Jac's disappearance, her story was covered by
Speaker 1: local and national media in South Lake Tahoe. The community
Speaker 1: quickly mobilized, with dozens of volunteers assisting in a search
Speaker 1: effort and utilizing nearby available resources however they could. Over
Speaker 1: the following weeks, tens of thousands of flyers and posters
Speaker 1: were distributed two businesses across the United States in a
Speaker 1: show of support and solidarity. The town was adorned in
Speaker 1: pink ribbons, Jace's favorite color, to keep her memory alive
Speaker 1: and to demonstrate the community's support for her family.
Speaker 2: Good god, Okay, this episode is going to be real tough. Hey, Like,
Speaker 2: my heart is just like so heavy already.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not easy, oh boy. Jace's mother, Terry would
Speaker 1: go on to found a group called Jacey's Hope to
Speaker 1: coordinate a volunteer and fundraising efforts. They sold cassette tapes
Speaker 1: with the song jce Lee, along with T shirts, sweatshirts,
Speaker 1: and buttons to fundraise for poster material, postage printing, and
Speaker 1: other related expenses to help bring Jace home. Organizations like
Speaker 1: Child Quest International and the National Center for Missing and
Speaker 1: Exploited Children were also involved in search efforts. The case
Speaker 1: garnered national wide attention and was featured on the June fourteenth,
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one episode on the Fox television show America's
Speaker 1: Most Wanted. Unfortunately, no matter the efforts that were put
Speaker 1: forward to find and rescue Jace, she was now, unfortunately
Speaker 1: hidden away and under complete control by her captors. The
Speaker 1: day she went missing, jac was led onto a property
Speaker 1: with a blanket still over her head. All right, how
Speaker 1: are we doing so far? I gotta take a step
Speaker 1: of coffee.
Speaker 2: Because I know this, like I even like I said
Speaker 2: no a bit about this, right, So I had prepared
Speaker 2: myself a bit, but this is I didn't quite prepare
Speaker 2: myself enough. I think, like, this is, this is a
Speaker 2: brutal one.
Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone could prepare themselves for a
Speaker 1: story like this, if I'm being completely honest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like just the fact that Carl saw this
Speaker 2: happen too, like holy shit, yep, that is I just
Speaker 2: don't even I don't know. If it gets much worse
Speaker 2: than that.
Speaker 1: Well, we'll keep going and we'll talk about it. So,
Speaker 1: according to her book A Stolen Life, jac was first
Speaker 1: taken into the house and into the bathroom. Here jac
Speaker 1: would be subjected to her first encounter of sexual assault.
Speaker 1: The man told Jace to undress, which she refused. He said,
Speaker 1: if you don't undress yoursel and I will be the
Speaker 1: one to undress you. And she stood there frozen, didn't
Speaker 1: know what to do, so the man began to undress
Speaker 1: her everything and took her clothes away except for one thing,
Speaker 1: the small butterfly ring that she had put on that
Speaker 1: morning from her mother from her seventh birthday. He didn't
Speaker 1: seem to notice it. Oh my gosh, ben Ah, this
Speaker 1: butterfly ring would be the one thing that she was
Speaker 1: able to keep and remind herself of her mother, her
Speaker 1: family in the outside world over the years to come.
Speaker 1: After she was now completely undressed, standing frozen in the bathroom,
Speaker 1: he then too undressed and made Jac shower with him.
Speaker 1: There was no sex that occurred, but there was some
Speaker 1: physical touch that he forced her to do, and the
Speaker 1: man made Jac also shave her armpits and pubic region.
Speaker 1: After the shower, he doesn't allow Jac to dress again.
Speaker 1: He gives her a towel and takes her to the
Speaker 1: backyard and places her inside a tiny shed that has
Speaker 1: been well prepared to hold someone and it was even soundproofed.
Speaker 1: She was then handcuffed with a fur lined pair of
Speaker 1: handcuffs and left in the shed, which was bolted shut
Speaker 1: behind him as he left. He also warned her that
Speaker 1: there was an aggressive dog in the yard and that
Speaker 1: it would attack if she tried to escape. Jace, terrified,
Speaker 1: told the man she would not try and escape. As
Speaker 1: the days passed, he would come into the shed where
Speaker 1: she was being held and bring her food and visit Jace.
Speaker 1: A big part of this case is understanding the psychological
Speaker 1: aspect of what Jac went through. I know I could
Speaker 1: never fully relate to her trauma no matter what I
Speaker 1: ever go through my life, but in her book A
Speaker 1: Stolen Life, she describes it in many times in many
Speaker 1: different ways, and I took an excerpt for it from
Speaker 1: it to try and paint a bit of a picture
Speaker 1: from this exact moment in her life. After only a
Speaker 1: few days of being held captive. This is what she
Speaker 1: had to say about it. Quote. He would try to
Speaker 1: make me smile with all these silly voices he would make.
Speaker 1: He had an English accent, a Texan accent, and an
Speaker 1: Australian accent. I feel this was part of his plan
Speaker 1: to manipulate me into being compliant with him. He used
Speaker 1: his powers of persuasion to gain my trust. He became
Speaker 1: my entire world. I depended on him for food, water,
Speaker 1: my toilet. He was my only source of amusement. I
Speaker 1: craved human contact so much by then I actually looked
Speaker 1: forward to him coming to see me. It felt like
Speaker 1: he was bestowing me a gift his presence.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: I can not begin to imagine what that would feel like.
Speaker 2: No. Yeah, like just to think that this person that
Speaker 2: has put you in this situation is your everything, right.
Speaker 1: Gosh, depending on them for literally everything?
Speaker 2: Yeah huh.
Speaker 1: And this is only a few days in and she's
Speaker 1: already starting to feel like she's looking forward to him
Speaker 1: coming to the shed, looking forward to his visits for
Speaker 1: human connection, for entertainment. What will he bring me next?
Speaker 1: What can he do next? Other than that, I'm just
Speaker 1: sitting here alone, my own thoughts, thinking about.
Speaker 2: Her family or family, her life.
Speaker 1: Before, and he's a distraction breaks that depression in her.
Speaker 2: Mind that is like so heavy.
Speaker 1: Hey, it's about as heavy as it gets.
Speaker 2: And I'm assuming like at this point, other than the
Speaker 2: wife being there or the lady or whatever being there
Speaker 2: when they captured her, she doesn't have any involvement.
Speaker 1: Right now, not currently, but she does later integrate into
Speaker 1: the situation. Okay, So a week after being kidnapped, jac
Speaker 1: would be raped for the first time while still handcuffed
Speaker 1: in the shed. This was only the beginning of the
Speaker 1: horrors that she would endure, as she was continued to
Speaker 1: be raped frequently, at least once a week for the
Speaker 1: first three years of her captivity. Throughout that time, Jace
Speaker 1: endured intense isolation, severe abuse, including times when the men
Speaker 1: would do intense hard drugs and would sexually assault JC
Speaker 1: for hours upon hours at a time. These were referred
Speaker 1: to as runs, as he called them.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, wow, I don't think I knew that.
Speaker 2: Oh man, this guy's just like a nasty piece of shit.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Now, initially she was kept in a small
Speaker 1: soundproof shed in the backyard, and the shed was equipped
Speaker 1: with minimal facilities. For example, a bucket for a toilet
Speaker 1: had very minimal ventilations, so even the toilets, you know,
Speaker 1: building up in her breathing, or the unfortunate sexual assaults
Speaker 1: that occurred hot days, it got stifling in there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: As time passed, Jace was granted more and more freedom
Speaker 1: within the confines of the shed. She was given a TV,
Speaker 1: video games, even some pets over time, cats and everything,
Speaker 1: but they never really lasted long in the tiny space,
Speaker 1: as it wasn't meant for animals and they were always
Speaker 1: eventually taken away from her. She was also introduced to
Speaker 1: the woman who was in the car the day that
Speaker 1: she was captured. Now, this was the man's wife, and
Speaker 1: she didn't seem to really like jac too much, but
Speaker 1: Jace always did her best to make her like her.
Speaker 1: That's all she wanted was to be liked by the
Speaker 1: two people that she only ever saw. Now, I do
Speaker 1: you want to clarify this. This woman was never mean
Speaker 1: per se. I mean she's helding her captives, so I
Speaker 1: mean the outside.
Speaker 2: Of that, like she knew the situation that was going on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the interactions and everything. She was she played nice,
Speaker 1: you know, she brought gifts and stuff like that for JC,
Speaker 1: you know, a teddy bear at one point and everything.
Speaker 1: But I mean, this is this man's wife and now
Speaker 1: this man has this fucking, for lack of better term,
Speaker 1: sex slave in the backyard. So there was that bit
Speaker 1: of tension between the wife and JC.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well teddy bear. No, she's still a complete piece
Speaker 2: of shit.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, No, don't get me wrong. I'm just trying
Speaker 1: to paint how it is for Jason's experiences. Right, she
Speaker 1: has this woman who's just a little bit cold shoulder
Speaker 1: to her, not beating her anything, a little bit cold
Speaker 1: shoulder to her. And Jace really wants this woman to
Speaker 1: like her because, like I said, it's the only two
Speaker 1: fucking people she sees for years at a time.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So yeah, this woman's still a piece of shit. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: But yeah, now between the two, the woman and the man,
Speaker 1: the married couple, the psychological games on JAC were intense.
Speaker 1: For instance, Jace wasn't allowed to use her name anymore.
Speaker 1: So Jace was keeping a journal to pass the time,
Speaker 1: writing about her days and anything that she had done.
Speaker 1: For example, when she did have a cat, she would
Speaker 1: write about what the cat did today, and the personality
Speaker 1: the cat, and funny things that had happened, and what
Speaker 1: they were doing and everything right. When it was found
Speaker 1: out that she was signing her name in this journal,
Speaker 1: she was forced to tear the name out and was
Speaker 1: told never to say it again.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, wow Okay.
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety three, two years after being abducted, the
Speaker 1: man that was seeing Jace on a daily basis stop
Speaker 1: coming by by. Now she knew the man by the
Speaker 1: name of Philip, and the woman that he was with
Speaker 1: was Nancy. Instead, Nancy began coming to see her. She
Speaker 1: told Jace that he wouldn't be back for a while,
Speaker 1: made up excuses saying that he was just kind of
Speaker 1: away or whatever. Now the reality of the situation, though,
Speaker 1: was that he had been briefly returned to jail for
Speaker 1: about thirty days after failing a drug test and having
Speaker 1: drugs being reportedly found on the property, which was a
Speaker 1: violation of his parole conditions. See Philip, whose full name
Speaker 1: is Philip Garrido, had a history of criminal convictions prior
Speaker 1: to abducting JC in nineteen seventy two, he was arrested
Speaker 1: for the repeated rape of a fourteen year old girl. However,
Speaker 1: he was never convicted in this case because a victim
Speaker 1: declined to testify in court. In nineteen seventy six, he
Speaker 1: also kidnapped and raped a twenty five year old woman
Speaker 1: by the name of Catherine Callaway in South Lake Tahoe, California,
Speaker 1: taking her to a warehouse in Reno, Nevada. He was
Speaker 1: arrested when police officers discovered her inside the warehouse asking
Speaker 1: for help. From this, he was convicted in nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: seven and began serving a fifty year federal sentence in Kansas,
Speaker 1: where he was diagnosed as a quote sexual deviant and
Speaker 1: chronic drug abuser with considerable emotional conflict, anxiety, depression, and
Speaker 1: a personality disorder. As it turns out, with the drugs
Speaker 1: being found on the property as part of his breaking parole,
Speaker 1: this meant officers had searched the house but never found
Speaker 1: JC locked up in the backyard.
Speaker 2: Wow, they like hit it so fucking well, Hey.
Speaker 1: They did, but they didn't. There's like they I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's really hard to say because over time this it
Speaker 1: goes from this shed to like different tents and stuff,
Speaker 1: which I talk about a little bit later. And like
Speaker 1: this like backyard living facility, and I mean you can't
Speaker 1: really see it from the front of the house, but
Speaker 1: like neighbors kind of like knew about it, and like
Speaker 1: Google image shows it and everything. It's not like if
Speaker 1: you look, it's not really hidden. It's hidden from passerbys.
Speaker 1: But if you look, it's right fucking there.
Speaker 2: But no one in there, like wildest thought would think
Speaker 2: what the what was actually going on there? Like there's
Speaker 2: just no way, I know think, Well, I mean maybe
Speaker 2: we would. I would suspect some serious shit because I
Speaker 2: suspect suspect everyone's doing weird.
Speaker 1: That's true, it's trueness. But yeah, it was. It was
Speaker 1: overlooked for lack of better terms. Now, whether it was
Speaker 1: an in depth search was actually done, whether it was
Speaker 1: just oh we found something, this is good enough to
Speaker 1: get them and they booked them right, who knows, but
Speaker 1: one way or another, she was overlooked well.
Speaker 2: In this by the sounds of it too, like this
Speaker 2: guy should shouldn't be roaming free like at all. He's
Speaker 2: already fucked up.
Speaker 1: Yes, times he's out on parole, which is unfortunately, something
Speaker 1: that happens too far, too many individuals who do some
Speaker 1: terrifying shit. But that's exactly what it is.
Speaker 2: He's out on parole, allowed to do it again, yep.
Speaker 1: And he would be jailed up or thirty days until
Speaker 1: he was released once more, and then he resumed control
Speaker 1: and Jac's ordeal persisted unnoticed.
Speaker 2: Jeez, like that, that's a moment right there where it
Speaker 2: was just so close, like it could have been. It
Speaker 2: could have that could.
Speaker 1: Have been it stopped. Yeah, could have been over after
Speaker 1: two years instead, that's only a fraction of what she
Speaker 1: went through.
Speaker 2: HM.
Speaker 1: So now we're going to fast forward a bit. After
Speaker 1: being held captive in the shed for three years, on
Speaker 1: August eighteenth, nineteen ninety four, when Jace was only fourteen
Speaker 1: years old, she would give birth to her first daughter.
Speaker 1: The delivery took place where she was being held with
Speaker 1: no access to medical professionals or proper health care. Despite
Speaker 1: the traumatic circumstances, the birth of her first daughter brought
Speaker 1: Jace a new sense of purpose and hope in her life.
Speaker 1: The arrival of her daughter, who she named Angel, became
Speaker 1: a pivotal moment in Jac's life, now motivating her to
Speaker 1: survive and providing her with a reason to endure this
Speaker 1: captivity and abuse.
Speaker 2: It's incredible though that she even like you know, like
Speaker 2: you said, there was no health care down there, right,
Speaker 2: so it's like and she's giving birth like it's amazing, yeap,
Speaker 2: that nothing went wrong or anything right because she I'm
Speaker 2: sure she couldn't have been like the healthiest of people.
Speaker 1: No, definitely not. And I do want to preface Nancy
Speaker 1: had some medical knowledge, though I don't think she really
Speaker 1: took place in the birthing, if I can recall correctly,
Speaker 1: she worked at like a medical facility, like a hospital
Speaker 1: or something. She wasn't an RN or anything like that,
Speaker 1: but she had some like minor medical knowledge which may
Speaker 1: have helped a bit, but not really at all. It's like, hey,
Speaker 1: don't you gotta get hot towels and shit and keep
Speaker 1: it clean. That's probably extent of it sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and me. But she might have also potentially
Speaker 2: like access to some supplies that were needed to potentially.
Speaker 1: Potentially Jace didn't really go into too much depth in
Speaker 1: that regard in the book, if I can recall correctly,
Speaker 1: but even still, it was it was quite primitive. It
Speaker 1: was like she gave birth in the shed, so wow.
Speaker 1: Now following the birth of her daughter, the frequency of
Speaker 1: the rapes began to lessen, and jac and her newborn
Speaker 1: daughter continued to live in this backyard shed, which would
Speaker 1: slowly be expanded and now include some other structures, including
Speaker 1: tents and a second building. Another three years would go by,
Speaker 1: and jac would give birth to her second daughter, Starlet,
Speaker 1: on November thirteenth, nineteen ninety seven, still while being held captive,
Speaker 1: still in the backyard, still with no medical treatment. The
Speaker 1: birth was the same, but as a result, Jace now
Speaker 1: had a second daughter, a second reason to keep going.
Speaker 1: The last time Philip ever raped Jace was on the
Speaker 1: day that Starlet was conceived. Though the end of the
Speaker 1: sexual abuse was over, Jace was still living a nightmare,
Speaker 1: raising two children in captive care for years to come.
Speaker 1: As time passed and Jac's daughters were growing up, they
Speaker 1: were granted more and more access to the outside world.
Speaker 1: Jace began taking part in activities like gardening and planting flowers,
Speaker 1: as well as homeschooling her daughters. Along the way. At
Speaker 1: one point, Philip instructed Jace to teach her daughters to
Speaker 1: call his wife Nancy mom instead.
Speaker 2: Of her, Oh gosh no, and to.
Speaker 1: Instead refer to her as their older sister.
Speaker 2: Wow. Wow, I mean yeah, just so that he can
Speaker 2: maybe look and not feel like such a piece of shit.
Speaker 2: Holy crap. Yeah, I didn't know that. That is quite disturbing.
Speaker 1: Well, Philip told Jace it was easier for Nancy with
Speaker 1: the little bit of jealousy things that were going on.
Speaker 1: But this was more a facade to maintain the secrecy.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, yeah, these are our children. Oh, that
Speaker 1: explains it, right, anyone asks. So they took this story
Speaker 1: out into the public eye. Now it had been nearly
Speaker 1: twenty years later, Jace and her daughters were fully integrated
Speaker 1: into Philip and Nancy's life, being their daughters. Philip even
Speaker 1: ran a print shop where Jace would work as a
Speaker 1: graphic artist. Here, she worked with customers and spoke to
Speaker 1: people regarding their projects. During this period, Jace had access
Speaker 1: to the business phone and an email account. Yet despite
Speaker 1: these opportunities, she never revealed her true identity or even
Speaker 1: hinted at the abduction that she went through or tried
Speaker 1: to make an escape. Witnesses even recall seeing Jace at
Speaker 1: the house occasionally answering the front door, yet she never
Speaker 1: indicated that anything was ever wrong or attempted to make
Speaker 1: a run for it. This goes back to when Jace
Speaker 1: mentioned at the very beginning that she fully relied on
Speaker 1: her captors. Except now it's almost twenty years of evolving
Speaker 1: through that.
Speaker 2: Holy shit. But then also too, like she has these
Speaker 2: two other like her girls to think about, right, and
Speaker 2: like she just runs off. She can't because she's not
Speaker 2: going to leave her kids. Her two kids there.
Speaker 1: Well, they had freedom, they could she could have grabbed
Speaker 1: her kids and gone okay.
Speaker 2: Wow man. But yeah, there's like, like you have already mentioned,
Speaker 2: there's so much more.
Speaker 1: To this psychological trauma within this because she fully relied
Speaker 1: on them. She's like, if I leave, what will I do?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like where will I go? This is all I have?
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: So she began to almost want to protect Philip and
Speaker 1: Nancy and what happened. She's thinking, they're good people for
Speaker 1: keeping me, for helping me, helping me raise my daughters. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's not raping me anymore. He's a good man. Now
Speaker 1: he's changed. That sort of stuff is what's going through
Speaker 1: her mind. And that's the sort of thing that they
Speaker 1: implanted in her. It's terrifying.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize that he had like stopped raping her.
Speaker 2: I had no idea.
Speaker 1: He began to look at them as his daughters. Oh okay,
Speaker 1: I mean two of them were his daughters.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's true. Brutal.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Jac was fully reliant on these two individuals.
Speaker 1: They gave her everything, and I mean this all it
Speaker 1: all started because he was basically like a major sexual
Speaker 1: deviance and like quite aggressive with it and stuff, and
Speaker 1: he's like, Okay, you're the reason. You're what I'm going
Speaker 1: to take this out on. I can't take it out
Speaker 1: of my wife, so it's going to be you. And
Speaker 1: then over time, like he's now got these daughters and
Speaker 1: it's like things are changing and it.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah developed, it's just like family now, right, so yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And for better or for worse, JAC looked to them
Speaker 1: as family now too. It would be a grand total
Speaker 1: of eighteen years that Jac would be helped captive, and
Speaker 1: on August twenty fourth, in two thousand and nine, Philip
Speaker 1: would finally make the mistake. In recent years, he had
Speaker 1: begun to see himself as somewhat of a prophet, a
Speaker 1: religious man, singing religious songs and preaching. On this day,
Speaker 1: in particular, he visited the FBI office in San Francisco
Speaker 1: and left behind a four page essay outlining his thoughts
Speaker 1: on religion and sexuality, claiming he had discovered a method
Speaker 1: to control deviant behavior. Yeah, he's kind of he's getting
Speaker 1: out there. Later that same day, he visited the University
Speaker 1: of California, Berkeley, with Jac's two daughters in tow to
Speaker 1: request permission for an event related to his God's Desires program.
Speaker 1: Now this kind of highlights a big problem with this
Speaker 1: case because his house was searched, right for example, and
Speaker 1: they were never found. They were overlooked. He had just
Speaker 1: walked into the FBI office and again he was overlooked.
Speaker 1: But now he's on a university campus, and Lisa Campbell,
Speaker 1: a campus police officer, is the one who found his
Speaker 1: behavior odd and erratic and the girl's demeanor that was
Speaker 1: with him rather unusual. I mean, their upbringing was quite unusual,
Speaker 1: so it would make sense, right, super sheltered, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: So he asked him to return next day for an appointment.
Speaker 1: While he was gone. With the time that she had,
Speaker 1: Lisa did a background check on Philip found that he
Speaker 1: was a registered sex offender and given his history with
Speaker 1: the strange two girls. Sorry, given his history and that
Speaker 1: he had these strange two girls with him, it was
Speaker 1: a massive red flag for Lisa. The following day, he
Speaker 1: and the girls returned for their appointment as requested, and
Speaker 1: Lisa immediately contacted the office to his express her concerns.
Speaker 1: Officers visited the home that evening searched the house but
Speaker 1: didn't find the girls.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, okay, what the shit? But also Lisa like,
Speaker 2: thank you for people like Lisa. Hey, yep.
Speaker 1: Now. These officers ordered Philip to report to the office
Speaker 1: the next day for an interview. On August twenty sixth,
Speaker 1: and Philip obliged. He returned with his wife Nancy, and
Speaker 1: the two girls and j C, who identified herself now
Speaker 1: as Alissa. The officers were stunned and very confused, so
Speaker 1: they separated everyone and began questioning and interviewing. Even when separated,
Speaker 1: Jace initially maintained her false identity and claimed the girls
Speaker 1: were his daughters. She defended Philip and said that he
Speaker 1: was a changed man and good with children. However, as
Speaker 1: the interview progressed, jac became defensive and agitated When asked
Speaker 1: for more details, eventually claiming she was a battered wife
Speaker 1: from Minnesota hiding from an abusive husband, a false story.
Speaker 1: It wasn't until the arrival of Concord police sergeant that
Speaker 1: Philip finally confessed to kidnapping and racing raping Jce, leading
Speaker 1: to the reveal of her true identity to officers.
Speaker 2: Philip was the one that Philip, Oh, okay, wow, this
Speaker 2: is how deep he got into Jac's head. Wow that
Speaker 2: is just that's just like unfathomable. Wow.
Speaker 1: The authorities were stunned. They had just found j C.
Speaker 1: Duggard after all these years, and thanks to Lisa, that
Speaker 1: security officer police officer at the campus, thanks to the
Speaker 1: one person.
Speaker 2: That went above and beyond doing their job, not.
Speaker 1: Even above and beyond, just did their fucking job.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's true.
Speaker 1: So don't get me wrong. J C is one hundred
Speaker 1: percent the badass of the day here for surviving this.
Speaker 1: But I'm going to give out a second one. We
Speaker 1: have two badasses of the day. Lisa here one hundred
Speaker 1: percent is also a badass in her own right.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: So Philip and Nancy were of course swiftly arrested, and
Speaker 1: Jace was reunited with her mother, Terry, on August twenty seventh,
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Terry, I'm like pretty certain thought that
Speaker 2: she would never see her daughter again, right, like that
Speaker 2: she died or most likely yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: After all this occurred, jac and her two daughters, of course,
Speaker 1: faced numerous challenges as they adjusted to life outside of captivity,
Speaker 1: which was a long psychological and emotional recovery navigating the
Speaker 1: years of abuse, which included dealing with PTSD, anxiety, and depression.
Speaker 1: Jace also exhibited a lot of signs of Stockholm syndrome,
Speaker 1: making it difficult to reconcile her feelings and experiences during
Speaker 1: captivity with her newfound freedom. Having lived in isolation for
Speaker 1: eighteen years, their social skills and understanding the outside world
Speaker 1: were severely impacted. Adapting to normal society, social interactions, and
Speaker 1: social norms required a lot of time, patience, and support. Additionally,
Speaker 1: transitioning the girls into formal education system was a challenge
Speaker 1: since they had been homeschooled and under extreme limited conditions,
Speaker 1: and they needed to catch up academically. The intense media
Speaker 1: attention added another layer to it all. Maintaining privacy while
Speaker 1: dealing with the public curiosity and media interest was a
Speaker 1: struggle to say the least, and among all of these
Speaker 1: hurdles she now had to overcome her probably the final
Speaker 1: worst one. She had to relive and recount these experiences
Speaker 1: over the past eighteen years in a courtroom. Thankfully, as
Speaker 1: a result of the hearings, in April of twenty eleven,
Speaker 1: Philip Garrito made a deal a plea deal, and pled
Speaker 1: guilty to a total of fourteen charges, including kidnap and rape.
Speaker 1: Nancy also pleaded guilty to her charges of kidnapping and rape.
Speaker 1: And while I'm usually not a fan of plea dale's,
Speaker 1: in this case, it's significantly cut down the amount of
Speaker 1: time JC and her daughters spent in the courtroom. Oh okay,
Speaker 1: because this didn't even go to trial.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's good. That yeah, that is good because I'm
Speaker 2: assuming they're still going to be in there for life.
Speaker 1: So well, that's debatable. Oh my, and one of them,
Speaker 1: well here I'll tell you right now, don't jump to
Speaker 1: conclusions just yet. In June of twenty eleven, sixty year
Speaker 1: old Philip Garrito was sentenced to a total of four
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty one years to life in prison and
Speaker 1: fifty five year old Nancy Grito received a sentence of
Speaker 1: thirty six years to life in prison. So there is
Speaker 1: a possibility of Nancy getting out, but if she does,
Speaker 1: she will be old at sin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but still there should be no probable I mean, okay,
Speaker 2: but grant you without fill up she made, she probably
Speaker 2: wouldn't like wouldn't have done this, yes, right, and like
Speaker 2: I'm doubting that she would ever do something like this again.
Speaker 2: But still like she was very much so involved in
Speaker 2: she was in jail forever she was.
Speaker 1: She knew about it all, but Philip did most of it,
Speaker 1: though she was involved in some of it, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean.
Speaker 2: So like she wouldn't have had I guess, like the
Speaker 2: rape and stuff.
Speaker 1: No, as far as I'm aware, Nancy did not involve
Speaker 1: herself in any of.
Speaker 2: The abuse and stuff.
Speaker 1: Well, she was involved with abuse for sure, just like that,
Speaker 1: not of sexual nature. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Today, Jace lives a relatively pate life with her two daughters,
Speaker 1: striving to maintain a sense of normalcy after the trauma
Speaker 1: that they all endured after the rescue. In two thousand
Speaker 1: and nine. Jac worked diligently to provide her daughters with
Speaker 1: a stable and supportive environment, allowing them to catch up
Speaker 1: on their education as we already mentioned, and integrate themselves
Speaker 1: back into society. Both daughters have since graduated high school
Speaker 1: and attended college oh Man.
Speaker 2: All those awesome.
Speaker 1: Specific details of their lives are kept private for obvious reasons.
Speaker 2: Which is good.
Speaker 1: Yes, jc has become an advocate for survivors of trauma
Speaker 1: and abduction. She founded the JYC or j C Foundation,
Speaker 1: which aims to assist family and individuals who have experienced
Speaker 1: severe crisis or life disruptions. The foundation provides educational and
Speaker 1: therapeutic programs, including animal assist therapy to promote healing and resilience.
Speaker 1: Nothing says healing like a fucking animal therapy, Honestly, Like
Speaker 1: I can just it's not going to fix everything, but
Speaker 1: you get yourself a good dog that just just sits
Speaker 1: with you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean like animals, I feel like are just
Speaker 2: little angels in disguise.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a person can listen, but a person will ask
Speaker 1: questions or form thoughts and opinions. A dog just listen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no judgment, No, they literally have like no judgment whatsoever.
Speaker 1: So Jace also shared her story through her memoirs A
Speaker 1: one book A Stolen Life, which was published in twenty eleven,
Speaker 1: which was a massive resource to me writing this episode today,
Speaker 1: and her second book, Freedom, My Book of First which
Speaker 1: was published in twenty sixteen one I have yet to read,
Speaker 1: but I certainly will be reading now. Despite her advocacy,
Speaker 1: JC and her daughters largely stay out of the public's eye,
Speaker 1: focusing on their personal healing and their family life that
Speaker 1: they now have together. That is the story of J. C. Dugert.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is just like, like I mean, I like
Speaker 2: I said, I kind of knew a bit about it,
Speaker 2: but and then it just like it's just mind blowing
Speaker 2: that something like that could happen. That's all. There are
Speaker 2: people in this world that are just that fucked up
Speaker 2: that can justify like that doing something like this to
Speaker 2: fulfill their ridiculously disturbing meats.
Speaker 1: Oh, I know, it's it's wild and like in all honesty,
Speaker 1: like I said at the very beginning, I think I
Speaker 1: said it maybe it was just a thought. Anyways, this
Speaker 1: could easily be like a twelve parter episode, so I
Speaker 1: had to cut back like a lot. Like this book
Speaker 1: is I don't know how thick, but it's got hundreds
Speaker 1: of pages whereas my story was like twenty pages. So
Speaker 1: the information that's out there that JC has shared on
Speaker 1: her story is a lot in what she endured is unfathomable.
Speaker 1: I highly recommend you read her books.
Speaker 2: Well what an incredible woman, like no shit, you know,
Speaker 2: to just like how she's going about with her healing
Speaker 2: and like you can just tell that she is strong
Speaker 2: as hell.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there are instances out there where people have
Speaker 1: reported like hey, seeing like kids in the backyard and
Speaker 1: stuff like that over his place over the years, and
Speaker 1: nothing was ever really done.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, and considering his background, like yeah it should
Speaker 2: have been.
Speaker 1: I know, Like one thing was like they reported like
Speaker 1: people living in the backyard.
Speaker 2: And these like times, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: And someone was like, yeah, no one better be living
Speaker 1: back there because like that's a zoning issue. You can't
Speaker 1: do that. So okay, yeah, no one looks back there. Okay, good,
Speaker 1: because we find anyone's living back there, then it's gonna
Speaker 1: be taken down. Yeah, that's about all it was done.
Speaker 1: Like there's a lot of shit like that, Like there
Speaker 1: was another one where a neighbor had like seen jac
Speaker 1: in the backyard when she was young. But this is
Speaker 1: also a point where she's like fully fucking like integrated
Speaker 1: and like not really saying who she is too much.
Speaker 1: She might have told her name at this point, but
Speaker 1: a neighbor, another young person, like they talked through the fence.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, and then as a result, like Philip
Speaker 3: then like took her away and like would later build
Speaker 3: a bigger fence where like right, like this sort of
Speaker 3: shit happened.
Speaker 1: Like there's so many like close calls where it's like
Speaker 1: why didn't something come Yeah, and I'm not not blaming
Speaker 1: like the kid, yeah, but why didn't authorities.
Speaker 2: Like like he really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like it's nobody questioned this sex offender. Yeah, with
Speaker 1: this backyard maze of shit and the sightings of these
Speaker 1: girls and like like.
Speaker 2: Because he really didn't do like that good of a
Speaker 2: job to fight it.
Speaker 1: He didn't. He did, like I said, he pulled the
Speaker 1: veil over for like passerbys. But if you looked into it,
Speaker 1: you would find it no problem. Yeah, because anytime his
Speaker 1: property was searched, his property wasn't searched, his house was searched.
Speaker 1: They didn't even step foot in his backyard because if
Speaker 1: you did, you would see this shit and you'd be like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck's going on back here?
Speaker 2: Could you imagine too, if you were like one of
Speaker 2: those people part of that search and like later found
Speaker 2: out what was going on in the backyard, the feeling
Speaker 2: that you would have, Hey, like I I.
Speaker 1: Would have to make a fucking personal apology to JC.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I mean, oh, because you know, you regret
Speaker 2: things in life, and that would I just think that
Speaker 2: would be one that you would just never be able
Speaker 2: to really get over. No, this case, like I could
Speaker 2: almost just like solve if I like the automoeto art,
Speaker 2: I could just like start solving it. So many times
Speaker 2: it's just it's unreal.
Speaker 1: Well, we are going to be doing a Wicked Box
Speaker 1: giveaway that we've been alluding to for a few months now,
Speaker 1: and in the Wicked Box, one of them, we will
Speaker 1: be putting this this book by jac in there, so
Speaker 1: someone who gets that box will have a chance to
Speaker 1: give this a good read. Yeah, and I recommend it.
Speaker 1: It's a bit like like, don't get me wrong, it's
Speaker 1: I have nothing against JC, Like some of her writing
Speaker 1: is a bit not quite my style, but her story
Speaker 1: like holy shit. So it's yeah, it's a good book.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's like amazing to her to put
Speaker 2: that on paper, like I just it's absolutely incredible.
Speaker 1: It is. And there's a lot of sections here too,
Speaker 1: like with each chapter she'll talk about like, Okay, so
Speaker 1: this one chapter here that starts on page thirteen, it's
Speaker 1: called Stolen, and then at the end of it, there's
Speaker 1: a page that she's titled Reflection, and she looks back
Speaker 1: and like, so not only is she telling her story
Speaker 1: through it, but then she like reflects back on it
Speaker 1: in her like now grown up self.
Speaker 2: Yeah, incredible. Wow.
Speaker 1: Like here, I'm going to read this a couple of
Speaker 1: sentences here just to kind of give you a perspective.
Speaker 1: So this is page fifteen, reflection on being stolen. Looking
Speaker 1: back on that day, feelings of dread come to mind.
Speaker 1: I was eleven years old, still very much a kid.
Speaker 1: I was very scared and alone. I didn't know going
Speaker 1: to happen. And if someone had told me what I
Speaker 1: would be enduring for the next eighteen years, I would
Speaker 1: never have believed them. I had no idea what was
Speaker 1: going to happen to me. What this man had in
Speaker 1: mind for me was like a foreign language.
Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't that the truth?
Speaker 3: Hey?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Scary?
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, hopefully you guys got through all that and
Speaker 1: you're doing all right.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm heading to yoga now.
Speaker 1: Distress a bit. Don't forget to check out our links
Speaker 1: down below. You can have us find us on Patreon, Instagram,
Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. We're going to have our
Speaker 1: live stream for our two hundredth episode happening over at Trench,
Speaker 1: a local brewery. It's gonna be a good time. You
Speaker 1: can sign up on Patreon and join us on that
Speaker 1: live stream. Yeah, all that stuff's down below. We're looking
Speaker 1: forward to seeing you guys there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and good work. I definitely would say that
Speaker 2: you did this story justice, So thank you.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that it was a difficult one and doing
Speaker 1: it justice was my primary focus. Yeah, so thank you.
Speaker 2: Okay, So until next time.
Speaker 1: Until next time, same time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, together, we're going to practice this.
Speaker 1: We'll try to get ready, okay.
Speaker 2: So three two one say Wicked.