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Speaker 1: What is up, Fellowsicho's I am Damn Valley coming at

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you with Morganson of the NBA podcast, Fame, of Good Sports,

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Fame and of Forbes his fame.

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Speaker 2: As well as of course Only Man Select. We're here

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to talk about two NBA playoff series.

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Speaker 1: Grant and I will have more on Rockets or excuse

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me sorry, Rockets fans, Timberwolves versus Warriors, as well as

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Nicks versus Celtics.

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Speaker 2: We'll have that up for you on Wednesday.

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Speaker 1: But as we go into this Tuesday, where we have

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some critical games for everybody involved, we're going to talk

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about the Cavs versus the Pacers and.

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Speaker 2: The Nuggets versus the Thunder.

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Speaker 1: Let's begin.

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Speaker 2: We're actually first more, how the heck are you doing?

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Speaker 3: Doing well? Doing well?

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Speaker 4: As a fat person? I shouldn't be saying this, but

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I'm very happy because I just had cake.

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Speaker 1: First of all, you're not fat, give yourself more credit,

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but I did. I can confirm that you did just

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have cake because when we pop on, you said I'm eating.

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Speaker 2: Cake, and then you proceeded to eat cake.

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Speaker 3: So I did congress unapologetically. Really yes, it's the only

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way to eat cake.

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Speaker 2: So kudos. To you. Let's dive in here.

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Speaker 1: Calves versus Pacers more playing out exactly like I did

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not expect, as someone who picked Calves in five, who

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has said very nice things about the Pacers, but I

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thought that highly of the Calves.

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Speaker 2: They now find themselves down three to one.

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Speaker 1: As we record this. Before I throw it to you,

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Don Mitchell did say he didn't play in the second

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half of Game four. The Calves are calling it an

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ankle injury. People are wondering if had anything to do

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with the calf that was bothering him. Initially he called

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it an ankle injury. After the game, he did say

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that he would see everybody on Tuesday, indicating that he

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would play. We have not had the results yet as

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we record this of the MRI that we know he's

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going to receive, So that is looming over everything, of course,

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as is the Darius Garland big toe injury. Taris Halburton

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has been battling a wrist injury. The series has been

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pretty physical and the Calves are kind of sort of

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complaining about it. Where are you just at with this

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Calves Pacers series?

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Speaker 3: Oh man, Look, let's start with the Calves.

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Speaker 4: This was a team that did everything right in course

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in the over the course of the regular shoots and

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the in terms of like workloads, like Kenny Atkinson went

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in and said, look, we're not going to have these

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guys play you know New York Nicks minutes.

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Speaker 3: These guys are are going to.

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Speaker 4: Play in there in the late twenties, early thirties of

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minutes to keep them fresh, to keep them healthy. But look,

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the injury bug has just hit them at the worst

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opportune time. I know there are people out there who

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are asking, well, what should the Calves do if they're

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getting bounced in the second round major changes ahead, Like no, no,

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this this is like an injury thing. Like I'm not

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going to sit here and say that they like Surety

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Fire Lee would have won this series if they'd been healthy.

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Like I'm not gonna sit here and say that, because

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the Pacers have been incredible and they deserve every ounce

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of credit going their way. But like, let's not pretend

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as if not having Darius Garland for two games wasn't

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going to affect you. Let's not pretend as if missing

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DeAndre Hunter and Evan Mopley in a game which they

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lost as well, isn't going to affect the entire course

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of the series. So it's it's just I'm just disappointed.

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I'm disappointed on their behalf. I'm disappointed as an observer.

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I think this shitty timing of injuries is just, oh,

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it's it's a it punched to the gut. So that's

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that's what I'm left with with the feeling after these

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for four games.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's I do wonder because there I do

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think that this is a series that the Pacers are.

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Speaker 2: Like they are winning.

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Speaker 1: This isn't just about the Cavs dealing with injuries, but

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when you look at some of the things that have happened,

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Darius Garland kind of said this about himself, where he's

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only two games into his return from injuries, still kind

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of figuring out, and specifically in that Game three, it

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looked like he was trying to figure out how to

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move and that's a game that they ended up winning.

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Complaints coming out of Game four. Did the Cavaliers stay

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in zone too much before they adjusted or they not

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make enough adjustments? I think that's probably fair criticism, But

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in the back of my mind, I'm sort of wondering,

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well's not just easier? Is that an easier way to

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defend now because of the Darius Garland toe injury and

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if you were worried before his ankle injury about Donovan

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Mitchell's CAF, like, is that just the easier way, like

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for that to be more of your base defense. There's

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also some things in here. I mean, you're not getting

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like the Ti Jerome falling off a cliff hurts you

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right now.

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Speaker 2: The trickle down effect for.

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Speaker 1: Cleveland is and I've seen a lot of people kind

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of bring up like this is why you shouldn't have

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traded Kris Lavert. I will maintain I respect the hell

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out of what the Cavaliers did by trading for DeAndre Hunter.

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That is someone who filled more of a need that

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they had at the time. You can't look at this

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and say Ti Jerome fell off a cliff, even Mobile

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was injured for a minute. Now, Donovan Mitchell's injured and

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Darius Garland is not operating at one hundred percent to

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be like they need more creation and ball handling. It's

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no If these guys were healthy, that's not an issue,

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and you can't if we would if they didn't have

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DeAndre Hunter, would you have felt as good about their

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base playoff defense because we've already seen like you know,

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Sam Merril's not gonna be it all the time, so

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to and like Dean Wade like how often can how

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healthy is he to play? But how many minutes can

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you play him when he actually is? Like what can

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you max him out?

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Speaker 2: As?

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Speaker 1: So I respect the hell out of what Cleveland did overall,

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I think that this is I want to we have

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to focus on the injury thing for a little bit

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long before getting into the pacers. But I agree with

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you that I don't want to get into a Cavs

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post mortem short of them just entering the Giannis Attentacumbo

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discussion and deciding no, like this makes more sense to

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have Giannis and Donovan Mitchell as sort of the two

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Let's catch these guys in Stone and that's our timeline.

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I don't know why you would overreact. I know you're

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getting expensive, but like that's the entire point of you

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ducking attacks this past year, and I do if anything,

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it's you can just get frustrated by you said at

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the top of this. This feels like a team that

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did everything right when you look at the minutes, management

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of its players, the depth that it had and like

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injuries are just kind of creeping up on them now.

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Speaker 2: The stuff.

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Speaker 1: It does feel like, I will say that they've gotten

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punked a little bit here. They had to start of

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the series. It felt like they were just shocked at

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how fast Indiana was playing, even though we all know.

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What's one thing that everyone, the most casual fan basketball

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fan knows about Indiana that they play fast. And so

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the Calves seeming off guard by that to start the

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series not good. Some of the slow starts in this

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series terrible, and like, you can't blame that one on

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injuries in Game four, specifically, when you have your full

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slate of players available to start. Is there anything else though,

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just sort of on the Cavaliers front, whether it's adjustments

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or the Donovan Mitchell injury looms over this. The Calves

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are done if Donovan Mitchell is out or at seventy

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percent instead of one hundred percent. I think Darius Garland's

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playmaking is so important, but the way that Donovan Mitchell

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can score and just the amount of defensive attention he

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can suck in there, you can't replace that with anybody

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on this roster right now.

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Speaker 4: Right well, outside of injuries, the results is just a component.

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Speaker 3: They're not hitting shots.

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Speaker 4: I mean, look, at the end of the day, that's

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of an important thing in basketball, right right, Ty Jerome

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hitting fifteen percent from three, major, major issue, or in

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just twenty seven percent overall, that's not going to cut it. Obviously,

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we know Garland is limited, So twenty five percent from three,

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forty point nine percent overall, that's not going to cut it.

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Even Donovan Mitchell twenty two percent from three. Yeah, not

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getting it done on that end of the floor. DeAndre

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Hunter as well, forty three percent from the floor, twenty

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two percent from three. It's they're just also missing jump shots.

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And we can say that the Pacers.

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Speaker 1: Well can actually interject there for one minute, is that

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they're not just missing jump shots, like these are jump

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shots that even the ones they're supposed to make. So

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in the regular season they shoot forty two percent on

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wide open threes. In this series against Indiana, they're shooting

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under twenty eight percent.

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Speaker 2: On wide open threes.

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Speaker 1: And that's that I'm not even that's not semi open.

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Like I get a little sketchy when it comes to

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the four to six feet stuff. If you're dealing with

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a taller player with a smaller player.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: If I have an NBA player four feet away from me,

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my shots getting blocked would be my point. So the

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six plus feet of room when they're at under twenty

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eight percent from the series. So sorry to interject from

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you there, but like those are shots that you just say.

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It's the same thing with Boston, Like you're almost sort

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of waiting and I don't this doesn't necessarily align with

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the law of like, oh that like it has to

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progress to a mean but you are sort of waiting

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them to be like, well, hit the fucking shots that

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you hit throughout the regular season.

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Speaker 3: Yep, you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 4: And by the way, kudos to you for the confidence

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of believing you would even get a shot off against

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an NBA player.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very much like how many points would you

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win off Serena Williams and tennis and someone saying I

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get one?

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Speaker 2: No, you would, No, you would.

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Speaker 4: Look, that's the thing people don't seem to recognize when

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people say I can get a bucket on a NBA player, Dude,

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you can't even get a shot off, Like that's that's

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the thing. You can't even you can't even get a

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real live Holt.

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Speaker 1: It's tempt If they gave me like twelve feet of space,

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I feel like I could get a shot off before

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they blocked it. Right, Okay, that's now, it's that shot

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going in. Is it going to be an airball? It's

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more likely to be an airball, but maybe I wouldn't

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get blocked. But that's like it's the Serena Williams thing

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where it's how many points would you win against Serena Williams?

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And my response would be, well she double faulting at all?

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And if the answer is no, then the answer zero.

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Speaker 3: I'm just wondering which NBA player is going to give

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you twelve feet?

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Speaker 1: Who like? Well, the Bucks like will pull, like if

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brook Lopez on the floor, they play in a ton

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of drop, Like maybe that'll that's the team.

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Speaker 3: Well, they're playing drop because they want to avoid the drive.

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Speaker 4: I don't think even a bad defensive player would not

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be would not really be afraid of you driving or

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me driving on them?

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Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure.

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Speaker 1: Well, I feel like they might spot me twelve feet

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the shell of their defense. All five players should be like,

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what's a is there such thing as like a zero

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five zone?

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Speaker 2: So like they just have five gotch.

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Speaker 3: Well that'd be good.

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Speaker 4: No so, but yeah, like the shooting things obviously, I

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mean if they regretted the or not regretted to the

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means like if they come back to the norm, then

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we'll have a series dance. I truly believe that. But

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they seem shell shot. They seem to be like, what

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the hell just hit us? Like we're down one to three?

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How did we get here?

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Speaker 3: Right? It feels like the start of any like teenage

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movie movie, like.

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Speaker 4: This is how I got here. You might be wondering

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what's happening? But this here's my story. This team is

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just they got kicked in the teeth, not once, not twice,

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three times, and they're still trying to shake it off.

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It does not bote well. And again this speaks to

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the Pacers, and it speaks to your point about this

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isn't just injuries. This is the Pacers actually winning this thing,

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because yes, they very much are. They are running, they're

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taking quick shots, they are moving the ball, they are

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attacking the class.

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Speaker 3: They are relentless.

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Speaker 4: Look, we have to like dedicate at least ten minutes

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to that ridiculous like put back by Aaron E. Smith

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in was that game two of the off the missed

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free fro.

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Speaker 1: There's a lane violation, Like, come on, that's okay. There's

254
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never a lane violation other than on that play. Okay,

255
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that's the only lane violation I've ever seen go on

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call this year to clear all.

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Speaker 3: Right, what he did was still enormously impressive.

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Speaker 4: That was That was really one of those, oh he's

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got that dog in him type of plays where I

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don't think anyone really necessarily at least not from a

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national perspective, thought, oh, Aaron E. Smith is that guy

262
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for us who are a little bit in the weeds

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on a lot of teams here in the NBA. Yeah,

264
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we kind of knew he's that type of dude for

265
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him to do that at that moment, though, did not

266
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see that coming. They just keep pushing back. Whenever they

267
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you try to put a fight to the pacers, they

268
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keep finding back and they come out on top. Is

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there some level of shooting luck involved for them? Hard

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to say, because I don't think that they're out there going,

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you know, two thousand and one, Vince Carter against Philadelphia

272
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knocking down nine to threes. I think it's ball movement,

273
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it's open shots. They're finding open guys that they're making

274
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a play for each other instead of like Isoing, not

275
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saying that the Caps are only Isoing, but they've had

276
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to go to Mitchell Isoing a ton because lack of

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availability from other players.

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Speaker 3: So there's just.

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Speaker 4: Complete team cohesion with the Pacers that we've talked about

280
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so many times on this podcast all throughout the year,

281
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and it's showing itself again, which is just super impressive.

282
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So it's tough for me to sit here as well

283
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and just go, oh, Pacer or Oral Caps, you should

284
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have beaten these guys like in a sweep, like no, no,

285
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Like they were always going to be a tough team

286
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to beat, And turns out a little too tough there.

287
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Speaker 1: And we've talked a lot about their depth, but their

288
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ability to kind of wield it and make adjustments when

289
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you and I know this is something it's not that

290
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it's new and in vogue, but what does everyone kind

291
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of harp on now just winning the possession battle in

292
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these games? And they go out and it's, oh, they

293
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really haven't won the possession battle through these first even

294
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though they hold the series lead, Like they haven't just

295
00:13:04,879 --> 00:13:07,559
dominated the possession battle, right, they just go out and

296
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dominate that possession battle. When you look at what did

297
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they take like twenty something more shots than Cleveland in

298
00:13:13,159 --> 00:13:14,759
that game, I believe I'll have to double check that.

299
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So like their ability to just do then a lot

300
00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,759
of that comes from, you know, their ability to force turnovers,

301
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and it's they're gonna have players that are picking up

302
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that's and by.

303
00:13:22,639 --> 00:13:23,679
Speaker 2: The way, that's the other part of this.

304
00:13:23,799 --> 00:13:26,879
Speaker 1: If you're injured or half hobbled your bat let's just say,

305
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your back court's not at like entirely full strength, and

306
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you have the pacers just deciding to pick you up,

307
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like if it's not ninety four feet like eighty six

308
00:13:33,879 --> 00:13:37,120
feet or some shit. That's that's harrowing too, And like

309
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they're just you know, Rick Carlisle and just the personnel's

310
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ability to hit those buttons. And then to get to

311
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a point where it's like, look at what Miles Turner

312
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,679
did in game four. Look at what the minutes that

313
00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:48,879
you're able to carve out from Obi Toppin in some

314
00:13:48,919 --> 00:13:51,679
of these stretches. Yeah, that is I think I've actually

315
00:13:51,759 --> 00:13:53,799
posed this to you, and I hate repeating myself, but

316
00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,440
I almost wonder if, like depth, it might be the

317
00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,159
new playoff market inefficiency where if you want it, it's

318
00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,919
not just about it's like limiting your weak points. And

319
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,159
I thought the Calves would have fallen under this bucket,

320
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,039
though maybe they're just so injured at the top to

321
00:14:07,039 --> 00:14:10,279
where it's oh Siakam and Haliburton were this banged up,

322
00:14:10,279 --> 00:14:11,799
they would be running into the same issue. So I

323
00:14:11,799 --> 00:14:14,159
don't I think they could still fall under that umbrella.

324
00:14:14,159 --> 00:14:16,039
But the number of their weak points, and I also

325
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,159
think that that's why, you know, that's part of why

326
00:14:19,159 --> 00:14:21,320
you make the trade for DeAndre Hunters, Like you're trying

327
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,440
to limit your defensive weak points that you could press

328
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:25,840
at the Calves still, like they kind of have some

329
00:14:25,879 --> 00:14:28,480
of those, especially just by virtue of the backcourt being

330
00:14:28,559 --> 00:14:31,440
smaller and now not at full strength. And the Pacers,

331
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:32,799
I think you could well, like look at some of

332
00:14:32,799 --> 00:14:34,720
their players if you're getting Obie top in minutes. And

333
00:14:34,759 --> 00:14:37,639
we know Benned mcmathrin, who I think everybody who doesn't

334
00:14:37,639 --> 00:14:39,279
play for the Pacers wants to punch in the face

335
00:14:39,399 --> 00:14:41,039
right now, he seems like he's turning into that type

336
00:14:41,039 --> 00:14:43,679
of player. They have some spotty issues there, but it's

337
00:14:43,879 --> 00:14:45,360
they just have a lot of guys where it's no

338
00:14:45,519 --> 00:14:48,799
like you're not gonna go pick on them. And yeah,

339
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:50,399
Halliburton might be one of them, but if you get

340
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,320
into a matchup of trying to seek out Haliburton every time,

341
00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,639
I think the Pacers are good about insulating him to

342
00:14:55,639 --> 00:14:57,399
where that's just not ideal. And then you're kind of

343
00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,639
running yourself out of your bit, like you don't want

344
00:14:59,639 --> 00:15:02,559
to fall over in love with targeting these guys. And

345
00:15:02,879 --> 00:15:04,759
by the way, that was from Game four, like kind

346
00:15:04,759 --> 00:15:07,840
of my biggest takeaway was they decided this really hasn't

347
00:15:07,879 --> 00:15:10,720
been a Pascal Siakam offensive series just yet. This is

348
00:15:10,759 --> 00:15:12,960
gonna be the game that it's a Pascal Siakam offensive

349
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,639
game and they're able to do that. And finally, before

350
00:15:15,639 --> 00:15:17,960
I throw it back to you, it's not just about

351
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,159
them playing fast, and I think this is just something

352
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,200
that's been underrated about them even before the Siakam trade,

353
00:15:24,279 --> 00:15:27,320
but definitely since the Siakam trade. They don't need like

354
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,320
if if they need to face a set defense, they

355
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,919
don't freaking care, Like they just have the ability and

356
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,480
the weapons to go after especially I mean playoff Andrew Nemhart.

357
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,679
On top of adding Siakam alongside Tyree s Halliburton. There's

358
00:15:39,759 --> 00:15:42,600
just so many different ways that they can beat you

359
00:15:42,919 --> 00:15:44,960
at both ends of the floor, and I think we've

360
00:15:45,039 --> 00:15:48,080
kind of seen them for and I know people are

361
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,799
gonna point to, oh, the Pacers are so lucky, Like

362
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:52,840
the Bucks were injured two years in a row and

363
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,080
now Cleveland's banged up again. There's luck involved in every

364
00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,679
single playoff push, even when you're not injured. I mean,

365
00:15:59,679 --> 00:16:02,039
like this Celtics or let's use the Celtics Knicks those

366
00:16:02,039 --> 00:16:05,240
first two games as an example. Boston is just missing

367
00:16:05,279 --> 00:16:08,679
a metric ton of threes that they normally hit. I know,

368
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,159
Porzingis wasn't one hundred percent. Jalen Browns dealing with Neil

369
00:16:11,279 --> 00:16:13,919
knee stuff, Everyone's dealing with me stuff at this point.

370
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,279
I think it's an insult to what the Cavaliers did

371
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,360
during the regular season and also an insult to the

372
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,759
Pacers to just say, oh, this is just Darius Garland

373
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,080
and Dono Mitchell, even m.

374
00:16:23,919 --> 00:16:25,159
Speaker 2: Mobile haven't been fully healthy.

375
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:27,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's part of it. But the other part of

376
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,360
it is the bigger part, and that's the Pacers have

377
00:16:29,519 --> 00:16:33,720
just they have been you know, Rick Carlisle laughed when

378
00:16:33,919 --> 00:16:35,360
I guess the Cow. He was relayed to him that

379
00:16:35,399 --> 00:16:37,879
the Cows were talking about how physical the Pacers are playing.

380
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,559
That's kind of like another wrinkle of this team where

381
00:16:40,559 --> 00:16:43,000
it's I have not watched the Pacers for much of

382
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:44,639
this season and thought, oh.

383
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,320
Speaker 2: They're just so physical, Like that's not a team.

384
00:16:46,399 --> 00:16:47,799
Speaker 1: But the fact that they could play that way or

385
00:16:47,799 --> 00:16:50,559
make another team field they're playing that way, Maybe that

386
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,600
says more about the Cavaliers, is just like their sort

387
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,679
of postseason toughness or how injured they are there like

388
00:16:57,519 --> 00:16:59,720
Indiana being able to kind of beat up on them

389
00:16:59,759 --> 00:17:04,359
and half court like even as someone who considered themselves

390
00:17:04,559 --> 00:17:06,200
at least in the know of the Pacers or a

391
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,880
Pacers appreciator, not necessarily something I would have thought coming

392
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:11,759
into this year's like, oh, that's that's something they're asolutely

393
00:17:11,759 --> 00:17:13,440
gonna do. But it's oh, coming out of Game four,

394
00:17:13,799 --> 00:17:16,400
Jared Allen's face is on a milk carton and Evan

395
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,839
Mobley can seem overmatch with sometimes the ways that they're

396
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,000
what they're doing half court defensively.

397
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's look.

398
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,920
Speaker 4: I mean for them to actually have that physical scalability

399
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:30,079
is also not on my That was not on my

400
00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,720
Bengal card either, Like if you were to ask me

401
00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:36,119
before the season, for example, like how are the Pacers playing,

402
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,400
I would have sat there more a finesse team than

403
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:39,200
a physical team.

404
00:17:39,759 --> 00:17:41,759
Speaker 3: Turns out they're both. You know it.

405
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:47,680
Speaker 4: They keep reminding me of this was like the post

406
00:17:47,799 --> 00:17:50,000
best era of the Suns, Like you remember the seven

407
00:17:50,039 --> 00:17:54,000
seconds or less offense that they had then they got shacked.

408
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:58,279
Then they called it seven seconds or shack. That's one

409
00:17:58,319 --> 00:18:01,519
of the best names for an offense. But the Pacers

410
00:18:01,559 --> 00:18:04,200
are kind of doing that, but they don't have a name.

411
00:18:04,319 --> 00:18:09,200
It's not like seven seconds or Haliburton or Siakam or whoever,

412
00:18:09,599 --> 00:18:12,400
Like it's just a combination. It's basically, well, if we

413
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,559
don't score within seven seconds, we just go to a

414
00:18:14,559 --> 00:18:16,759
half court and we execute the hell out of it.

415
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,680
And that to me has been a huge eye opener

416
00:18:21,279 --> 00:18:23,119
over the course of the season, that they're sort of

417
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,119
just so stable that you can't sit there and go, oh, well,

418
00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,000
they are only a transition team. They're only good when

419
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,440
they run. They're only good when you know, they force

420
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,640
a steal or whatever. No, no, no, no, no. They

421
00:18:34,079 --> 00:18:37,039
when you lock down and you're like, no, we're gonna

422
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,160
guard the basket. For twenty four full seconds. They can

423
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,039
still score on your ass. That makes a huge difference.

424
00:18:43,039 --> 00:18:46,119
And they have so many weapons too. Like Matherin only

425
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,759
playing eighteen minutes per game this series. I know that

426
00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:51,480
he got bounced what was two minutes into that one

427
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,319
one minute even one or two very early, so that's affected.

428
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:57,519
But he's a guy who can get to the free

429
00:18:57,559 --> 00:19:00,640
throw line, for example, Like when they need something, they

430
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,319
can tell him, go get us free FROs, like let's

431
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,240
do something here. When they need spacing elements, oh yeah,

432
00:19:06,279 --> 00:19:09,519
they can put Miles Turner and aaron Ne Smith and

433
00:19:09,559 --> 00:19:13,119
Tyrese Halliburton and Andrew Nemhard or whoever in there in

434
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,880
the start or in the rotation, and then you have

435
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,799
a space out floor. If you want to go athletic

436
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,319
and powerful, well there's Obi Topp and there's Benedic Mathrine Health,

437
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:23,160
aaron Ne Smith.

438
00:19:23,839 --> 00:19:25,079
Speaker 3: There are so.

439
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,880
Speaker 4: Many constellations to this roster that just sort of fits

440
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:34,519
like a wide palette of playing styles. And I'll be

441
00:19:34,559 --> 00:19:37,039
fully honest with you, I did not appreciate this until

442
00:19:37,079 --> 00:19:40,599
like maybe Christmas. I was a little slow on that

443
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,759
because I wasn't short it was sustainable. I got thought,

444
00:19:43,759 --> 00:19:45,720
all right, that could just be a blip, but they

445
00:19:45,759 --> 00:19:48,319
started winning. I was like, hmm, there's more to this

446
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,440
team than just running. They're actually doing this like consistently.

447
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,279
They're creating looks, they're getting they're getting these actions in

448
00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:00,480
place with set defenses. So the offense is is there

449
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,759
and then they just kind of build on it defensively, Dan, Like,

450
00:20:03,799 --> 00:20:05,400
where the fuck did that come from?

451
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they were like a top ten defense for

452
00:20:08,839 --> 00:20:11,920
more than half the season, and so you talk about like, oh,

453
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,400
you can't like you can't read too much into these trends,

454
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,720
and it's like, well, what the trends reached fifty games.

455
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,799
That's more so the status quote than a trend for them.

456
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,240
And yeah, I just don't even know what I would

457
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:23,920
have to add other than to clarify if they took

458
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,279
twenty three more shots than the Calves in Game four,

459
00:20:27,599 --> 00:20:29,920
they also had they were a plus twelve in the

460
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,880
turnover battle, So twenty two turnovers for Cleveland versus which

461
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,079
you have to credit ind these defense for versus ten

462
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,319
for the Pacers. When you're gonna win the possession battle

463
00:20:37,319 --> 00:20:39,200
by that amount, Like, it just doesn't matter that Cleveland

464
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,480
attempted twice as many free throws as it forty versus

465
00:20:41,559 --> 00:20:43,559
twenty as Indy and then you kind of, you know,

466
00:20:43,599 --> 00:20:46,960
you factor in like the differential from three as well,

467
00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,640
And I'm just I'm gonna be interesting to the extent

468
00:20:51,079 --> 00:20:53,079
like how can is there anything that you're looking to see?

469
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,440
Like how can the Cavaliers adjust? Assuming it's not even

470
00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,920
assuming that they're healthy, because they're not. But if Donovan

471
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,480
Mitchell plays like is there is it just a hit

472
00:21:02,519 --> 00:21:04,440
more shots? But it's definitely a take care of the

473
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:06,960
ball where there's like I hate to boil it down

474
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,480
to that, Oh, this is a make or miss league

475
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,240
and you need to protect possession, but they probably need

476
00:21:11,279 --> 00:21:12,359
to figure out a way to do that. And I

477
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,119
will say, like, maybe you get to different like if

478
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,920
Jared Allen hasn't giving you anything, then maybe it's just

479
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:17,720
trying to get it's time.

480
00:21:17,759 --> 00:21:19,279
Speaker 2: Maybe it's time to get away from Jared. I hate

481
00:21:19,279 --> 00:21:19,680
saying that.

482
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,680
Speaker 1: I don't consider Jared awn that type of player, but

483
00:21:21,759 --> 00:21:24,279
Game four was I don't want to say no show,

484
00:21:24,279 --> 00:21:25,559
but it was close to. It was as close to

485
00:21:25,599 --> 00:21:27,680
a no show as you can get at the very least,

486
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:28,440
So maybe that's.

487
00:21:28,279 --> 00:21:28,759
Speaker 2: Something they do.

488
00:21:28,799 --> 00:21:31,279
Speaker 1: But the way the Pacers are playing right now, and

489
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:35,519
then given the context of what's happening with Cleveland's health,

490
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,119
I don't I don't know what the adjustment is other

491
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,440
than well, let's start by maybe hitting some wide open

492
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,640
three pointers and not losing the possession hit to such

493
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:44,599
an extreme.

494
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,400
Speaker 4: Hit more shots. It's usually a pretty good strategy. There's

495
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,119
more to it, though, I agree with you. There's more

496
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,240
to it than just that. It's got to be matching

497
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,480
their physicality, like indy physicality, like you said it at

498
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,759
the top with DeAndre Hunter, who's.

499
00:21:57,559 --> 00:21:58,599
Speaker 3: A big ass player.

500
00:21:58,759 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 4: He's a big ass like you need him to go

501
00:22:03,079 --> 00:22:06,200
in and establish a physical presence, like he's six eight

502
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,640
two twenty five, two thirty maybe even two thirty five.

503
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:10,400
Speaker 3: I don't know.

504
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 4: Those weights never really get adjusted, but like he's up there,

505
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,880
like he's a big human being with skill on ball,

506
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,039
off ball. He can shoot a bit, he can get

507
00:22:19,079 --> 00:22:23,160
to the basket. Like you have to ask DeAndre Hunter

508
00:22:23,599 --> 00:22:27,000
as even Isicca Coro too, who's like really like that

509
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,839
dude is built. The bigger, stronger wings on that team

510
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,039
needs to go in instet a tone like yeah, all right,

511
00:22:33,039 --> 00:22:34,720
you're trying to push us around. We're going to do

512
00:22:34,759 --> 00:22:37,000
the exact same thing to you, Like, it has to

513
00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:40,559
be a dogfight. You're playing for survival right now. So

514
00:22:40,759 --> 00:22:44,799
that's one thing we're talking about. The shooting. Obviously, we

515
00:22:44,839 --> 00:22:47,119
need them to shoot better, but we also need to

516
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:51,279
get them the right type of shots. A quick trigger

517
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,000
Donovan Mitchell like having to sort of shoot over two

518
00:22:55,079 --> 00:22:58,079
players not a good shot. We need to figure out,

519
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,480
like if you're if you're the Cavalisan, then they need

520
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,799
to figure out way to get those shots in rhythm.

521
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,799
Move a little bit more off ball, install some of

522
00:23:06,839 --> 00:23:09,079
those things. Because it's been a little eye so heavy

523
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,440
because of the injuries. But if everyone's available in game five,

524
00:23:13,559 --> 00:23:16,279
you gotta play as a cohesive unit. Because the way

525
00:23:16,319 --> 00:23:18,319
that they played over the course of the regular season

526
00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:21,839
and even in the first round obviously against Miami, it's

527
00:23:21,839 --> 00:23:24,640
not how they're playing right now. Right now, they're like, Okay,

528
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,039
we're relying on Donovan to just kind of create everything

529
00:23:28,079 --> 00:23:30,519
for us. You can't do that. You gotta share the ball, Yeah,

530
00:23:31,519 --> 00:23:33,519
gotta set each other up. You got to make sure

531
00:23:33,559 --> 00:23:35,519
that everyone's like passing in their round.

532
00:23:35,759 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 1: And by the way, we're saying all this too, coming

533
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,680
off a game which they shot forty percent from three.

534
00:23:39,759 --> 00:23:41,599
It's a lot of like the work that Donovan Mitchell's

535
00:23:41,599 --> 00:23:43,480
had to go through for his shots for most of

536
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,000
this series, with the exception of Game three, which they won.

537
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,519
I think Darius Garland and ever moably coming back, it

538
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,200
just streamlines his life there.

539
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:53,079
Speaker 2: So, yeah, you're absolutely right.

540
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 1: And the one thing I'll be not the one thing,

541
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,640
but something I'll be just be monitoring for the Pacers

542
00:23:57,079 --> 00:23:58,799
is do they go back to just a lot of

543
00:23:58,839 --> 00:24:03,200
those early Pascal Siakam actions And it's just so earlier

544
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,519
in the series. Through those first three games he was

545
00:24:05,559 --> 00:24:09,640
averaging about thirty six point six touches in the front

546
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,559
court per thirty six minutes. He was at a rate

547
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,400
in Game four of fifty three front court touches per

548
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,440
thirty six minutes, and so he didn't have to play

549
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,319
as many obviously, but like getting him the ball, getting

550
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,920
him involved, and maybe trying to punish Cleveland's defense, especially

551
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,279
when it's set in that way, I think does like

552
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,319
a lot of good for them. And by the way,

553
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,000
we've probably been given him enough credit. I know he

554
00:24:31,039 --> 00:24:32,880
has some big shots in this series, like the ability

555
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,680
for Tyre's Haliburton to just be like Kitlin Cooper used

556
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,519
the word a lot over Bessell short it was like

557
00:24:38,559 --> 00:24:41,039
just a decoy on the ball off the like being

558
00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:43,400
able to use him as a decoy. That's not something

559
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,400
that you can do with every primary offensive driver in

560
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,160
the league, Like you can't do that with Luca, or

561
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:50,839
you don't do that with Luca, you don't do that

562
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,400
with Like. It's just the fact that Tyre's Haliburton can

563
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,119
do that. It's closer to Steph Curry ESK than like

564
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,039
other of these like traditional four generals.

565
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,759
Speaker 3: He's overrated, Dan remember to be fair.

566
00:25:03,519 --> 00:25:05,079
Speaker 1: And maybe I've mentioned this on the podcast The Math

567
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:06,720
on that Works. That's like a dozen players.

568
00:25:07,039 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 3: I know it.

569
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 4: I know it's just taking a whole life of its own.

570
00:25:11,319 --> 00:25:15,519
But obviously he's not. I agree. It's he's such a

571
00:25:15,559 --> 00:25:17,519
weird player to me, like you have to figure him

572
00:25:17,519 --> 00:25:19,519
out first before you kind of appreciate him.

573
00:25:19,839 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 3: Because I was like, he's so good. I wanted more

574
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:22,960
of him.

575
00:25:23,039 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 4: I've said this to you repeatedly over the course of

576
00:25:25,279 --> 00:25:26,599
the seas and I was like, no, I need more

577
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,160
of him. I need him to get up to that

578
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,599
twenty six twelve line he was at last year. He

579
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,519
needs to be that guy. He all right, he is

580
00:25:34,559 --> 00:25:37,799
that guy despite not doing all those numbers. Somehow he

581
00:25:38,079 --> 00:25:40,359
like because no one's going to give him that shot.

582
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,640
Everyone is treating him as they should, as if he

583
00:25:44,799 --> 00:25:47,720
is that twenty six twelve guy. So it doesn't even

584
00:25:47,759 --> 00:25:49,640
matter if he puts up the numbers. He just needs

585
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,240
to get the defense to like commit to guarding him

586
00:25:53,279 --> 00:25:57,079
in different spots and that opens up sections elsewhere. This

587
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:02,400
team just runs so well. And look I covered them

588
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,319
in Paris back in January. They lost the Spurs in

589
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,599
the first game, and they came back and whooped them,

590
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:14,240
and you could tell during the pregame interview press conference

591
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,799
that they were just, yeah, oh we lost. We're kind

592
00:26:19,799 --> 00:26:21,559
of going back, like, have you noticed how good we've

593
00:26:21,559 --> 00:26:24,720
been lately? I think before then they've won like nine

594
00:26:24,759 --> 00:26:27,200
out of their last ten or something along the sides.

595
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,839
Speaker 3: Like they were just they were completely at East.

596
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,759
Speaker 4: They were like, oh, yeah, no, we know what's going

597
00:26:32,799 --> 00:26:35,599
to happen, and then they went out and executed the

598
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,680
ever living shit out of every action they kind of

599
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:44,359
decided to go with. So this team has so much

600
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,880
higher upside than I think most would believe or appreciate.

601
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,400
I could see this being a finals run.

602
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,039
Speaker 1: Man, I'm so ready for the jokes of people the

603
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,039
NBA off is freaking out when it's okay, see in

604
00:26:58,039 --> 00:27:01,440
Indiana in the finals. If that happens, there's a lot

605
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,160
of a lot of good matchups on the table. The

606
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,759
too long, didn't listen or watch version of this is

607
00:27:07,839 --> 00:27:10,000
the Calves are pretty injured, but the Indiana Pacers are

608
00:27:10,039 --> 00:27:10,799
really fucking good.

609
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,039
Speaker 2: That's the that's the nutshell version of this.

610
00:27:13,559 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 4: Before we move, Walt, I do have a question, so, like,

611
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,960
just from a purely entertainment ankle, would you not rather

612
00:27:22,039 --> 00:27:24,240
have the Patiers and the Celtics in the finals.

613
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,839
Speaker 1: There's something I find compelling about a team trying to

614
00:27:29,839 --> 00:27:32,640
defend its title on the actual final stage.

615
00:27:32,759 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

616
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, But if like stylistically speaking, if you're asking me,

617
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,400
like if I was just going for the aesthetics of

618
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,079
what would be the perfect finals matchup and also what

619
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,960
might be the most confusing finals matchup for me to cover,

620
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,559
it's probably Pacers versus the Wolves or the Nuggets, right

621
00:27:50,759 --> 00:27:52,319
stylistically speaking.

622
00:27:52,279 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 4: So stylistically I can't get there with with the Minnesota

623
00:27:55,599 --> 00:27:57,359
Like yeah, I know, and it's ridiculous, but.

624
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 1: Like, well, they're just huge where it's like, you know

625
00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:01,880
what I mean, So, but yeah, you're right. So I

626
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:06,720
would probably say then that it would be the Nuggets

627
00:28:06,759 --> 00:28:07,559
versus the Pacers.

628
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,759
Speaker 4: Pacers Nuggets would be basketball point. I would love that

629
00:28:12,599 --> 00:28:15,519
the league would hate it, regardless of what they tell.

630
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: You, now that you have Jokic in there, and it's

631
00:28:17,839 --> 00:28:19,319
I think it's personally, I think it's good if you

632
00:28:19,319 --> 00:28:19,599
want to it.

633
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 2: This is not discussion.

634
00:28:20,519 --> 00:28:23,759
Speaker 1: I expected to have exposed the national audience to these

635
00:28:23,759 --> 00:28:25,400
teams that aren't getting as much shine, and I would

636
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,759
say the Pacers fall under a perfect bucket of that.

637
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,440
I think it's it's really awesome too that we're talking

638
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,880
about like, oh, this could be a finals run for them,

639
00:28:33,039 --> 00:28:34,839
and it's you could talk about the lucky breaks. It

640
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,960
happens across every titles run, you get. I think, so

641
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,559
the Celtics they dominate last year, was it that they

642
00:28:40,559 --> 00:28:42,119
were the only great team or that they didn't have

643
00:28:42,119 --> 00:28:44,440
to face another great team aside from the Luca Mavericks

644
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,359
who no longer exists, and they still beat those dudes

645
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,200
in five games. So it's you could twist yourself into

646
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,519
a pretzel basically through every finals run for the most

647
00:28:53,519 --> 00:28:57,519
part that there's luck involved. Let's talk some Nuggets Thunder

648
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,359
who this is another series. I mean, let's focus on

649
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,640
me being wrong. How can we make this about me more?

650
00:29:04,119 --> 00:29:06,759
I picked You think I would have learned my lesson?

651
00:29:06,839 --> 00:29:10,319
I picked the Clippers in five and then I picked

652
00:29:10,599 --> 00:29:12,759
the Thunder in five. Okay, you just think I would

653
00:29:12,839 --> 00:29:14,359
learn my lesson? The Nuggets jump out to a.

654
00:29:14,279 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 2: Two to one lead.

655
00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: They had the lead in the fourth quarter at home

656
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:23,319
in Game four, with Jokic having maybe the worst three

657
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,000
game stretch of his prime, right like, it's close to

658
00:29:26,079 --> 00:29:28,559
it in a position that where they could have won,

659
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,759
they didn't. I is it weird that I came away

660
00:29:32,799 --> 00:29:34,519
from if we're looking at the fallout from Game four

661
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,279
moving forward, I came out of that game feeling worse

662
00:29:37,319 --> 00:29:41,839
about both teams because I'm like, Oklahoma City's offensive process

663
00:29:42,039 --> 00:29:45,200
is actually concerning, even because like when it's the non

664
00:29:45,279 --> 00:29:47,319
Shay stuff and some of it is I think the

665
00:29:47,359 --> 00:29:49,359
world of Ja Dubb. I think we're probably headed towards

666
00:29:49,359 --> 00:29:52,920
the conversation maybe about Chet Holmgren and Jaylen Williams has shot.

667
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,200
By the way, Ja Dub one of fifteen on wide

668
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,079
open threes against the Nuggets, and it's like he's been

669
00:29:57,119 --> 00:29:59,680
able to get some stuff going downhill, and he was

670
00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:02,240
been key for them. So I probably feel a little

671
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,680
bit better about the thunder outside of Shaye than a

672
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,359
lot of other people. But I also I should have

673
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,400
given the people who were very concerned about it.

674
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 2: I shouldn't have written it.

675
00:30:10,279 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: Off and been like, oh no, this is so last year,

676
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,240
because there's clearly something there. And then with the Nuggets,

677
00:30:15,799 --> 00:30:18,599
I find myself going, like, you've gotten like Christian Brown

678
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,160
this series, Aaron Gordon, like the supporting cast has done

679
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,799
its job too different degrees, like the Russell Westbrook offensive experience.

680
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,119
No thank you, still, I just can't. You're never gonna

681
00:30:28,119 --> 00:30:30,400
sell me on it. But like he's done a lot

682
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,519
of stuff for them on defense. Yeah, and so I

683
00:30:32,559 --> 00:30:35,599
can say, sit here, you're tied to too, and young

684
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,359
Jokich is like not having a good series by Yokich's standards.

685
00:30:39,599 --> 00:30:41,880
But then I'm I'm looking at it and saying, he

686
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,759
just looks so damn gassed, and he has a right

687
00:30:45,839 --> 00:30:48,319
to be. But then you also, just everyone went through

688
00:30:48,359 --> 00:30:50,519
the regular season. I know he's carrying a heavy workload.

689
00:30:50,559 --> 00:30:52,279
Then a lot of other people like you know, who

690
00:30:52,319 --> 00:30:54,960
also carried an incredibly heavy workload on the offensive end.

691
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:56,279
Speaker 2: Shake gil is Alexander.

692
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: He's not having a banner series from an efficiency perspective

693
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,160
by any stretch. But I'm just of watching this series.

694
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,480
I almost first of all, the first half of Game

695
00:31:04,519 --> 00:31:07,920
four counts as a form of torture. That was just

696
00:31:08,319 --> 00:31:11,640
the thundershot shot chart looked like the red wedding from

697
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,200
Game of Thrones. By the end of it, the fact

698
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,279
that they got their offense going at all, I just more,

699
00:31:16,279 --> 00:31:18,200
can you make some sense of this series for me

700
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,000
before we get into bitty gritty That was my long

701
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,400
winded way of saying, hey, I'm confused.

702
00:31:22,759 --> 00:31:26,559
Speaker 4: Well I am too, And look, whatever discussion you are

703
00:31:27,319 --> 00:31:30,400
about like ramping up to have about chat holmgrewm count

704
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,119
me in. There needs to be a discussion at some

705
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:35,279
point soon, I think too.

706
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,119
Speaker 1: Would you trade him for a lightly used Mitchell Robinson.

707
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 2: It's just my.

708
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,559
Speaker 4: Well, not that conversation. But all right, look this has

709
00:31:44,559 --> 00:31:47,519
been ugly. I do agree that that that's the you

710
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,119
painted it so well, saying like we left game Game

711
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,200
four even more concerned for both parties. I think that

712
00:31:55,319 --> 00:31:58,519
is the right way to look at it because yes, look,

713
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,200
I love the fact that the Thunder are having this series,

714
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,680
by the way, like this is a real test. This

715
00:32:03,759 --> 00:32:08,799
is a team that where they are throwing everything at you, like, yeah,

716
00:32:08,839 --> 00:32:11,799
you can argue that if they shoot better in the

717
00:32:11,839 --> 00:32:16,039
first two games they win handedly, but they didn't, and

718
00:32:16,119 --> 00:32:19,680
the team responded like they this is a dogfight. This

719
00:32:19,759 --> 00:32:22,720
is a major dogfight right now, as it should be.

720
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,480
They're only going to be better, maybe not even this year.

721
00:32:25,519 --> 00:32:27,839
Maybe it's gonna take a year for them to like Okay,

722
00:32:28,039 --> 00:32:31,799
watch the tape, absorb it and realize, yeah, we have

723
00:32:31,839 --> 00:32:34,839
to make adjustments to be better because we just we

724
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,240
can't be in a dogfight with a team where this

725
00:32:38,359 --> 00:32:41,839
what the second my third highest paid player is shooting

726
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,720
like just go look forty one percent from the field.

727
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,319
Speaker 3: In Michael Corton Junior.

728
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,599
Speaker 1: He has like one I'm not you know, MPJ. I've

729
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,440
seen too many of his podcasts clips probably so I

730
00:32:54,519 --> 00:32:57,960
have thoughts about MPJ the non basketball player, but he is,

731
00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,960
to his credit, playing basically with one sh.

732
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,079
Speaker 4: He is he is, but like no, no, no, no,

733
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,519
don't don't get it twisted, Like I'm not saying that

734
00:33:06,599 --> 00:33:09,359
there is no reason for it. But like when that

735
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,960
player is averaging eight and a half points per game,

736
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,079
like you're not getting the bank for the buck that

737
00:33:15,079 --> 00:33:17,480
you need in the playoffs, which is unfortunate. Like obviously

738
00:33:17,519 --> 00:33:20,799
he's banked up, Like that's not his fault, but that

739
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,200
means that so many other players on the roster have

740
00:33:23,319 --> 00:33:28,000
to compensate make up for it. Whatever, Like Christian Brown, sorry,

741
00:33:28,039 --> 00:33:30,400
all year shooting forty six percent from the field himself,

742
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,640
that's not getting it done. Yo, Kisches, you alluded to

743
00:33:32,799 --> 00:33:35,240
thirty nine percent from the field twenty one of them.

744
00:33:35,279 --> 00:33:37,960
Three this has been you're you're absolute right. This is

745
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,039
the worst stretch.

746
00:33:40,079 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: They've given him room two from three and those looks

747
00:33:44,759 --> 00:33:47,519
from above the break that he normally hits, he's missing

748
00:33:47,799 --> 00:33:50,920
like there's no like he's shooting like twenty seven percent

749
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,960
on set and for him, like a semi open three

750
00:33:53,039 --> 00:33:55,119
is that's a high quality three, So semi open and

751
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,319
just completely unguarded threes, those aren't going in. But as

752
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,960
other people I'm sure of pointed out now, is when

753
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,240
he does, you have, first of all, you have to

754
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,960
credit the okac's defense for sure, but when it does

755
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,719
feel like he's settling for those that's normally an indication

756
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,639
of Jokic is either banged up or super tired, and

757
00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:14,719
I'm wondering if that's what we're dealing with through the

758
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,000
course of this series right.

759
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,760
Speaker 3: Now, Tire, Yes, I don't. I don't think he looks

760
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:19,320
banged up.

761
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 4: I do think it's it's fatigue also, and I don't

762
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,719
want to be that this guy, and you, I think

763
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,719
you know me well enough to know that I don't

764
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:32,119
usually go on big like anti reference. I will say

765
00:34:32,599 --> 00:34:35,320
this series has been poorly reffed in both sides. But

766
00:34:35,519 --> 00:34:38,760
if I were to like choose one team that's gotten

767
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,719
a little bit of a benefit, it's the Thunder And

768
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,920
I'm not putting that on them, because look, Eddie, team

769
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,400
that gets the benefit of the doubt, they're gonna say

770
00:34:45,519 --> 00:34:47,760
thank you, can I have some more, which they should,

771
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,280
so I'm not blaming them for that. But I think

772
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,440
it's been a pretty atrociously called series. Jokic is being

773
00:34:55,119 --> 00:34:58,119
just torn down on every single play and there are

774
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,280
way too many non calls for me to like appreciate that.

775
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,559
And again, I also want to say this goes both ways.

776
00:35:05,639 --> 00:35:09,079
Shae has also been hacked and slashed and ripped without

777
00:35:09,079 --> 00:35:12,559
getting calls that annoys me, So, like refs covering this

778
00:35:12,639 --> 00:35:14,960
game or do calling these games do a little better?

779
00:35:15,559 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 1: What I So, I think it's probably fair to look

780
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,800
at that. But if like let's just use game four

781
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,079
as the example, I mean, jokish fourteen free throw atemps

782
00:35:24,159 --> 00:35:27,000
versus SGA's twelve, is there just a big enough discrede

783
00:35:27,039 --> 00:35:30,159
Like if you're saying it's been inconsistent, I guess I

784
00:35:30,159 --> 00:35:32,480
would get, but like it if it hasn't been inconsistent

785
00:35:32,599 --> 00:35:35,519
to one team's detriment, so to speak, that's kind of

786
00:35:35,519 --> 00:35:36,760
a form of consistency.

787
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 4: I guess you're right about that, but it's it just

788
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,280
irks me the wrong way that you know, he'll have

789
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,320
someone just pulling his shoulder down, no call, and the

790
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,000
same with Shaye where he gets slapped across the arms.

791
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:49,800
Like I understand what you're saying, Like free throw at

792
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,679
stems are sort of an evidence that yeah, okay, they're

793
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,960
still getting to the line, but it's also like on

794
00:35:56,159 --> 00:35:59,599
non shooting fouls, like they're just getting hit a ton

795
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,480
where you can see their like losing balance, and it's like,

796
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,840
I just think it's an inconsistent line because then you

797
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,360
look at the regular season where it was different, you're

798
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,119
looking at the earlier round also different. It's just I

799
00:36:13,199 --> 00:36:16,000
understand why players and coaches are a little bit confused

800
00:36:16,119 --> 00:36:19,599
at like where are we right now? Like what are

801
00:36:19,639 --> 00:36:22,039
we allowed to do? What are we not allowed to do?

802
00:36:22,159 --> 00:36:25,119
Like what is fair? What is not fair? Uh So,

803
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,679
like I would like to see that series get cleaned

804
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,239
up just a little bit. From a red perspective, that

805
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,840
wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. But Joki's

806
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,000
just tired. And something I've picked up on this happened

807
00:36:37,119 --> 00:36:40,599
in in LA. In the LA series as well. If

808
00:36:40,679 --> 00:36:43,800
you get Jokich frustrated enough, he's going to clank both

809
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,840
three FROs like he just is he is when he's pissed.

810
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,119
He's not like a guy who plays better when he's pissed.

811
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:56,880
He really isn't. He's clanking easy shots. He's frustrated. He's

812
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:02,039
he like gets himself out of the game emotionally. And yeah,

813
00:37:02,119 --> 00:37:04,800
that's if that's the philosophy or in a strategy from

814
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,280
from the Thunder, keep at it because it's working.

815
00:37:08,679 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he'll sometimes, excuse me, you could goad him

816
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,360
to just sort of fouls that like as the nuggets,

817
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,840
you don't want him to take sure the free throw discrepancy,

818
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,559
by the way, I think it's plus twelve right now

819
00:37:18,599 --> 00:37:21,679
for the series in favor of the Thunder, So at

820
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:23,559
least I get. I get where you're saying. I'm actually

821
00:37:23,559 --> 00:37:25,280
not saying it's wrong, but I don't I won't look

822
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,679
back on this series so far and think that the

823
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:29,239
referees determined it, which.

824
00:37:29,079 --> 00:37:32,039
Speaker 3: Okay, it's not all shooting files though I want to bet.

825
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:33,679
Speaker 2: That right here, But you made that point there.

826
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:38,039
Speaker 1: And it's also I think with Jokic specifically, I do

827
00:37:38,159 --> 00:37:41,719
feel like anecdotally speaking, and you run into this problem

828
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:43,400
with I know the Pelicans had it with Zion a

829
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,800
while ago. They just expect like these bigger players or

830
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,239
even these well built played like Lebron I think earlier,

831
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,159
maybe not so much the past few years, but like

832
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:52,920
you could have just made the case where it's because

833
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,880
dudes can bounce off him since he's built like an Adonis. Yeah,

834
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,719
that they just wouldn't get the same level of calls.

835
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,920
And so it does. And it's interesting because there's the

836
00:38:00,119 --> 00:38:03,519
juxtaposition between Shay the star player, who's a lot of

837
00:38:03,559 --> 00:38:06,400
sort of just like Craft with his dribbling and built

838
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,760
more slight, not that he's not strong and can't be physical,

839
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,119
but then versus Jokic where it's just like he's this

840
00:38:11,559 --> 00:38:14,360
but he myth. So I totally get what you're what

841
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:19,199
you're saying there. The in terms of like looking forward

842
00:38:19,559 --> 00:38:21,960
to seeing what more of these teams can do? Are

843
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:23,880
we at the point to zero? Went on the thunder

844
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,519
for a second that like, should Alex Caruso just start

845
00:38:26,599 --> 00:38:27,800
at this point or yes.

846
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:29,800
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah.

847
00:38:30,079 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 4: Mark Gaignall made this adjustment which I really liked in

848
00:38:34,559 --> 00:38:37,639
Game four where and I was a little confused that first,

849
00:38:37,679 --> 00:38:41,719
because you can't. I've always reverted back to like, oh,

850
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,280
Alex Caruso, it should be your main point of its

851
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:45,840
sack defender, right, he should be on ball.

852
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,679
Speaker 3: That that's because I love him guarding the ball. And

853
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:50,159
so I was a.

854
00:38:50,159 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 4: Little perplexed when I saw him put Caruso on on

855
00:38:54,599 --> 00:38:59,480
Russ in the corner for periods in Game four, and

856
00:38:59,559 --> 00:39:01,880
I realized, Oh my god, that's total decoy play because

857
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,239
it just frees him up to be like the primary

858
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,559
back line defender, like he just rotated up. He guarded

859
00:39:06,639 --> 00:39:09,679
Jokich so well, forced Jokich into a couple of tough,

860
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,719
tough decisions. I even't think he forced him into a

861
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,679
missed push shot, if memory serves. So it's like that

862
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,239
was that was smart because you live with an open

863
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:20,559
corner rust three.

864
00:39:20,599 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 3: You just do that like Caruso's well too.

865
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: But like that's the I think it's left specifically, but

866
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:26,800
like you live with it.

867
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:28,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're you live with it.

868
00:39:28,559 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 4: So like you're just adding an you know, look, let's

869
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:36,039
be honest here, a dp O Y candidate ish type

870
00:39:36,079 --> 00:39:39,159
of player. You're just allowing him to basically free roam

871
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,760
the hell out of the court, which good luck beating that.

872
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,000
That's tough. That is really tough. So that's a great

873
00:39:46,679 --> 00:39:49,840
adjustment for for Mark dag Nold. I thought, uh yes,

874
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,719
I would love to see Caruso start from here on

875
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,760
out for the rest of the playoffs. He's that valuable.

876
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,519
Did he play Someone mentioned this to me. I haven't

877
00:39:57,519 --> 00:40:01,039
looked it up. Did Caruso really play on twenty minutes

878
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:02,920
per game in the regular season?

879
00:40:04,079 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 2: Did he? I mean he dealt with an injury at

880
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:06,280
one point.

881
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, but like general, were they able to

882
00:40:10,119 --> 00:40:11,119
save him that much?

883
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,039
Speaker 1: He averaged nineteen point three minutes per game during the

884
00:40:15,039 --> 00:40:15,679
regular season.

885
00:40:15,639 --> 00:40:17,679
Speaker 3: All yeah, I mean.

886
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,400
Speaker 1: That's the and one part of that adjustment too. When

887
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:22,880
Grant and I had talked about this coming out of

888
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,639
Game one, where we were wondering, like, should Okase be

889
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,679
more aggressive with how they're defending Jokic, and it was

890
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:29,320
kind of, well.

891
00:40:29,199 --> 00:40:29,679
Speaker 2: You can't.

892
00:40:30,119 --> 00:40:31,760
Speaker 1: And it's like that's kind of one thing where if

893
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:33,920
Yokic is gonna be down low, like you can be

894
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,000
more aggressive in those instances with the way that they

895
00:40:36,039 --> 00:40:38,199
have that set up. And I think, look, you have

896
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,119
to give Isaiah Hartenstein's had good moments defensively on him,

897
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,480
Jal Big John Williams for sure as well. He's basically

898
00:40:44,519 --> 00:40:46,599
won the chet Holmgrin matchup for the most part when

899
00:40:46,599 --> 00:40:48,599
we've seen that, like Alex Russel has been a part

900
00:40:48,599 --> 00:40:51,480
of just mucking everything up about Denver. And I think

901
00:40:51,519 --> 00:40:54,199
what's really interesting or not interesting, but I guess would

902
00:40:54,199 --> 00:40:57,639
be concerning, is like it doesn't feel I mean, Christian

903
00:40:57,639 --> 00:40:59,679
Brown has definitely found ways to score when his three

904
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,559
balls not falling, but you have Aaron Gordon all the

905
00:41:02,559 --> 00:41:06,079
stuff he's done. But it's just felt like even with

906
00:41:06,199 --> 00:41:08,320
Jokic and you're looking like kind of the three point stuff,

907
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,760
like someone needs to give them more. Yeah, like if

908
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:13,800
your threes aren't going to fall at a super high clip, like,

909
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,199
where are you getting that extra from? And I guess

910
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,480
the you have to just assume that it's gonna be

911
00:41:18,519 --> 00:41:20,360
Yokich And it's like, yeah, I mean Jamal Murray can

912
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,119
still hit pig shots and like he gets that elbow

913
00:41:22,199 --> 00:41:24,800
jumper of his it's kind of terrifying. But the thunder

914
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:26,519
like they've done a good job of even being able

915
00:41:26,519 --> 00:41:29,360
to take like those looks away. And I don't know

916
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,840
what the offensive adjustment is for Denver other than well,

917
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:34,519
we just need you need to get a good like

918
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:36,760
Michael Porter Junior is giving you lightning in a bottle

919
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:37,440
every once in a while.

920
00:41:37,519 --> 00:41:39,119
Speaker 2: On offense, you probably need that.

921
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 1: But it also just you need Jokic to look like

922
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,039
the Nicole Jokic I said should have won his fourth

923
00:41:45,119 --> 00:41:45,760
MVP award.

924
00:41:47,039 --> 00:41:48,079
Speaker 3: I have a number for you.

925
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 4: So Aaron Gordon, we agree has had a good series,

926
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,000
but if we take away the threes, he's ten of

927
00:41:56,159 --> 00:41:57,360
twenty six from two.

928
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,159
Speaker 1: And they had the nuggets. This is what just makes

929
00:42:02,199 --> 00:42:04,599
Okay's defense so scary. They had four shot attempts at

930
00:42:04,599 --> 00:42:08,039
the rim. I posted the shot chart at halftime in

931
00:42:08,079 --> 00:42:10,760
game four. Four shot attempts at the rimward in the

932
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,719
first half. That is insane.

933
00:42:13,079 --> 00:42:14,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes it is.

934
00:42:15,559 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 4: And this is where it gets extra troubling because if

935
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,239
you exclude the three, you have Gordon at like forty

936
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:27,599
eight percent overall. Again, excluding the three, Jamal Murray is

937
00:42:27,639 --> 00:42:30,920
at forty percent overall. Y'll kids to thirty nine Russ

938
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:32,639
who's taken a lot of shots, so we had to

939
00:42:32,639 --> 00:42:38,800
count it. Forty eight Christian Brown thirty six. Well, I mean,

940
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:40,719
come on, we had to count it. He's taking forty

941
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,000
four shots. He's taking eleven shots per game. Like I

942
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,679
wouldn't have counted like the smaller players there, but like

943
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,079
he's so.

944
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 2: That was great.

945
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:52,519
Speaker 4: No, but like we have to Brown forty six, Michael

946
00:42:52,559 --> 00:42:56,840
forty Junior forty one, Like this this is an efficiency issue.

947
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,320
Like they're shooting forty from the field thirty three free.

948
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,280
I mean, god, like, whatever we talked about in terms

949
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,039
of like the Cavs and them hitting needing to hit

950
00:43:07,119 --> 00:43:11,159
jump shots or just interior shots for that matter, sing

951
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:11,800
goes here.

952
00:43:12,199 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 3: This. I mean, this team is just so.

953
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:19,199
Speaker 4: Dire need of something something I don't know what that

954
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:20,039
something is.

955
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:22,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean like there and by the way,

956
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:24,840
just to edit myself, it's a plus twelve and free

957
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,119
throw attempts for the Nuggets for the series. I think

958
00:43:27,119 --> 00:43:29,119
I said Thunder now that I just as I closed

959
00:43:29,159 --> 00:43:32,480
out that window, I realized I probably misspoke. But yeah,

960
00:43:32,559 --> 00:43:35,920
I mean Denver being against this team, and I know

961
00:43:36,039 --> 00:43:39,519
that Oklahoma City what they have as scores with their

962
00:43:39,599 --> 00:43:42,079
drives and they can play like dual big, but to

963
00:43:42,199 --> 00:43:45,519
be a minus fifty two in the paint for the

964
00:43:45,559 --> 00:43:48,559
series when you knew coming into this that in all

965
00:43:48,679 --> 00:43:52,480
likelihood you were gonna get destroyed in the transition battle,

966
00:43:52,599 --> 00:43:56,079
and like, hey, lo and behold, you've been outscored close

967
00:43:56,079 --> 00:43:58,440
to two to one in transition. It's seventy seven for

968
00:43:58,679 --> 00:44:01,440
okay see versus forty three for the Thunder to lose

969
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,400
the points in the paint battle to such a stark degree,

970
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,920
like that's I mean, that's problematic, and then all like

971
00:44:09,159 --> 00:44:12,000
it just even the Yeah, I don't know what the

972
00:44:12,039 --> 00:44:14,119
answer is, And I mean the you could maybe hope

973
00:44:14,119 --> 00:44:16,519
Denver because they have we've just seen too much like

974
00:44:16,599 --> 00:44:19,239
uncharacteristic turnovers from them. But then you're also like, well,

975
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:20,920
I mean they are going up against the Thunder, Like

976
00:44:21,079 --> 00:44:23,519
is that just not that's a thing that could happen.

977
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,639
And that's the other thing too, is just like they're

978
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,119
when I saw this number before we started recording it. Actually,

979
00:44:30,639 --> 00:44:32,440
I guess if you're watching, you don't realize it in

980
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,599
real time. But okay, see ninety seven to forty three

981
00:44:35,599 --> 00:44:38,239
and points off turnovers for the series that like you

982
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,199
expect to lose that battle I think is the thunder,

983
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,360
I mean is the Nuggets. Excuse me, but like that's

984
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,400
just that's huge here as well, until you need to

985
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,440
flip that script a little bit, and it's not about

986
00:44:49,039 --> 00:44:51,920
winning the fast break in the turnover battle. It's about, hey,

987
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,360
if we limit the turnover bat like, if we limit

988
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,880
our turnovers, especially like the ones that you can actually

989
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:58,320
limit when I think you go back and look at

990
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,199
a lot of Game four you certainly could have done

991
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,480
and that allows you to get your defense set or

992
00:45:02,519 --> 00:45:04,760
at least give you a better opportunity to and then

993
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,760
you're just by extension, okayse he's not gonna spend as

994
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,880
much time in transition there. It's like that's something that

995
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,639
feels like a controllable, even if Jokic is gassed, and

996
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:15,840
like even if you just don't trust the support, which

997
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,840
again I think that you point to which I'm still

998
00:45:19,119 --> 00:45:20,760
dying at you saying we need to count the rush

999
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,079
shot attempts because there are so many. Russ Is giving

1000
00:45:23,119 --> 00:45:25,719
you what you needed from Russ in the vein of like,

1001
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,239
that's what we need from him. Defensively, I think Christian Brown, Yeah,

1002
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,800
threes aren't falling, but he's given you what you needed,

1003
00:45:31,199 --> 00:45:33,480
so you have to start looking at Okay, there's the

1004
00:45:33,559 --> 00:45:35,599
Yokic element of all this, whereas they're not gonna win

1005
00:45:35,639 --> 00:45:37,400
this series, the fact that it's two to two and

1006
00:45:37,519 --> 00:45:39,920
Jokic has had like the fact that you've won one

1007
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,159
of the past three games with what we've seen from Jokic,

1008
00:45:42,639 --> 00:45:45,159
that's a big deal that can't continue. But I think

1009
00:45:45,159 --> 00:45:47,159
that you, if you're them, you might need to focus

1010
00:45:47,199 --> 00:45:49,280
more on the minutia stuff rather than like, we really

1011
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,400
need to figure out a way to hit a higher.

1012
00:45:51,199 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 2: Clip of our threes or something.

1013
00:45:52,599 --> 00:45:55,559
Speaker 1: And look, before I throw it back to you, their

1014
00:45:55,599 --> 00:45:57,719
defense has been really good since like midway through what

1015
00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,880
that Clipper series, and that's not a level I thought

1016
00:46:00,039 --> 00:46:01,559
that they could ever get too. And so like they

1017
00:46:01,679 --> 00:46:03,599
the fact they were in position to win Game four

1018
00:46:03,599 --> 00:46:07,119
specifically that was a quintessential rock fight. And so there's

1019
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,000
like you've shown that you can hang with the thunder. There,

1020
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,760
it's can you clean up enough? To clean up enough

1021
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,920
on offense? Not a small task against Okac's defense.

1022
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:16,559
Speaker 3: Right.

1023
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 4: Look, we're kind of circling a topic here as well,

1024
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,960
because we're talking about as from an offensive perspective, like

1025
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:26,679
who's going to step up, who's going to do more?

1026
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,400
Should be Jamal Murray. Like that's the thing, right, Like,

1027
00:46:31,599 --> 00:46:35,599
that's we've sort of grown accustomed to Jamal being I

1028
00:46:35,599 --> 00:46:38,239
don't want to say inconsistent, but we're getting different versions

1029
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:44,599
of him, right, Like we're getting these crazy forty five

1030
00:46:44,639 --> 00:46:47,239
point games and we're getting like twelve point games. Like

1031
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:51,400
there's there's just such a the lows are really low

1032
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,159
in the highs are so high, and it's I think

1033
00:46:54,199 --> 00:46:56,719
for the Nuggets, you need something that you can rely on.

1034
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:00,199
You need some sort of stability in his production where

1035
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,519
it's not a surprise every single night in terms of

1036
00:47:03,519 --> 00:47:07,000
what he gives you. Like I understand why you laugh

1037
00:47:07,039 --> 00:47:09,079
at that, because it's like it shouldn't.

1038
00:47:09,079 --> 00:47:11,679
Speaker 1: It's just that's ingrained into the fabric of their team

1039
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:13,880
at this point for me is why it's because it's

1040
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:15,920
you know what I mean, Like, how are you supposed

1041
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,280
to expect we've to be fair? I guess we've seen

1042
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,719
him be more consistent when it matters in the past.

1043
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:22,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we have.

1044
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 4: And I just think it messes up like it seems

1045
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,960
wide expectations and it messes up like team dynamics, because

1046
00:47:31,199 --> 00:47:34,400
all right, let's say he comes out and gets you

1047
00:47:34,599 --> 00:47:38,920
nine quick points in the first quarter, and it seems like,

1048
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,159
oh okay, jamalls on one. Maybe we can give him

1049
00:47:42,159 --> 00:47:45,440
that more responsibility. Then he doesn't score again until like

1050
00:47:45,519 --> 00:47:48,000
early in the fourth. Those are some of the things

1051
00:47:48,039 --> 00:47:52,840
where I'm like, it's so tough to build anything sustainable

1052
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:57,599
in terms of offense around players. You know, he's not

1053
00:47:57,639 --> 00:48:00,039
obviously not the primary player, but he's at least the

1054
00:48:00,079 --> 00:48:04,599
secondary offensive minded guy. Like, how do you build something

1055
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,559
sustainable around that? I don't have the answer for it,

1056
00:48:07,599 --> 00:48:09,800
but I do think it's wildly frustrating.

1057
00:48:11,199 --> 00:48:13,599
Speaker 1: I do wonder, though you mentioned Jamal Murray, I think

1058
00:48:13,639 --> 00:48:16,239
lou Dort deserves a lot of credit for why Jamal

1059
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,320
Murray struggling. And I think that gets into we didn't

1060
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,360
really get into what could be the potential downside. Like

1061
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,920
we see lou Dort, he's shooting thirty nine percent on

1062
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,000
open threes for the series. I think that's not like

1063
00:48:26,039 --> 00:48:27,639
a super high number, and when you look at his

1064
00:48:27,679 --> 00:48:30,199
three but like he it feels like he's trying to

1065
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:32,679
shoot Okac out of games at points. That's the variance

1066
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,320
you that could be damaging, But I guess you have

1067
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:39,840
to live with If you start Caruso, you're removing that

1068
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,159
that Westbrook element from your bag at least for stretches,

1069
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:45,599
unless carus is gonna play all forty eight minutes, and

1070
00:48:45,639 --> 00:48:49,360
then you're also taking off the So like him on

1071
00:48:49,639 --> 00:48:51,760
Jamal Murray is fine, but now it's all water.

1072
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:52,320
Speaker 2: Are you trying to.

1073
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: Use lou Dort and an Alex Caruso role if you're

1074
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:56,800
bringing him off the the like coming into the bench

1075
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,920
and playing minutes and so that might be something that's

1076
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,039
in the back of Okayc's mind to where it's like,

1077
00:49:01,079 --> 00:49:04,440
we still want to have lou Dort going after Jamal

1078
00:49:04,519 --> 00:49:07,199
Murray so that we can move Alex caruz Are around

1079
00:49:07,519 --> 00:49:10,519
the spectrum more. I guess the solve would be, do

1080
00:49:10,519 --> 00:49:13,000
you look at like you're not gonna bench one of

1081
00:49:13,039 --> 00:49:15,000
the bigs at this point certainly, right.

1082
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 4: No, I look, I know he hasn't been great from

1083
00:49:19,599 --> 00:49:23,719
range this series, but you need just a threat of

1084
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:25,119
Chet from the outside.

1085
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 3: Hartenstein, I think is tough to take off the floor.

1086
00:49:28,679 --> 00:49:31,320
Speaker 4: I think he's been rock solid, like he's making the

1087
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,280
right reads, he's not forcing shots, like he's taking what

1088
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:38,079
the defense is giving him. He's rebounding like I think

1089
00:49:38,079 --> 00:49:40,960
he's done a pretty decent job on Yoki's just well,

1090
00:49:41,079 --> 00:49:45,039
like so far, if you're looking at the Bigs from Okay,

1091
00:49:45,039 --> 00:49:47,480
see he's been the MVP of the Bigs for them

1092
00:49:47,519 --> 00:49:51,920
this series. So but he doesn't give you the spacing component.

1093
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,079
He doesn't give you the outside scoring. You know where

1094
00:49:54,119 --> 00:49:57,599
he's going to get the shots like Chet can also defensively,

1095
00:49:57,599 --> 00:49:59,679
for that matter, free roam a little bit more, which

1096
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:03,039
is saying something when he's like seven foot one and

1097
00:50:03,119 --> 00:50:05,920
like what is his wingspan seven eight or something ridiculous,

1098
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:11,079
So like I do think that matters, But there might

1099
00:50:11,119 --> 00:50:13,119
be a time, there might be like moments here there

1100
00:50:13,159 --> 00:50:14,480
where you can get away with it and you go

1101
00:50:14,519 --> 00:50:18,480
super small and just scale up the speed. They'll have

1102
00:50:18,599 --> 00:50:22,320
to see what like how Denver is playing initially, and

1103
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:23,480
what's a react out of.

1104
00:50:24,159 --> 00:50:26,559
Speaker 1: What have you made of the just the chet series

1105
00:50:26,639 --> 00:50:28,360
or even if you're looking at like, okay, the j

1106
00:50:28,559 --> 00:50:30,760
Dubb the type of game that he had in in

1107
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,039
game four, and then even if it trickles down to

1108
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,320
what do you do if you're I mean, they won anyway,

1109
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,320
but what do you do in those instances where.

1110
00:50:38,199 --> 00:50:39,519
Speaker 2: It's can you rely anymore?

1111
00:50:39,639 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 1: On a case in Wallace for volume who that's another

1112
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,880
dude who's had a really good defensive series. He goes

1113
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:46,519
three or three like it feels like and he's just

1114
00:50:46,559 --> 00:50:48,719
wide open all the time. Those are it feels like

1115
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,360
consciously the Nuggets have almost decided like, well, those are

1116
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:54,079
dudes that we don't want to leave open him and

1117
00:50:54,119 --> 00:50:55,960
Aaron Wibb, like we're gonna leave them open because we

1118
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,639
don't necessarily love the alternatives. What do you make of

1119
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:02,559
like if they're of what offensive adjustments or levers that

1120
00:51:02,599 --> 00:51:04,440
maybe Mark Dagnell Kim pull from here.

1121
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:06,119
Speaker 3: It's a good question.

1122
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:09,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, I wouldn't mind going more to the guys who

1123
00:51:09,679 --> 00:51:14,000
you know, are are viewed as second string or you know,

1124
00:51:14,159 --> 00:51:18,119
not part of the primary three, because there are a

1125
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,920
lot of player quality on this team. Like again, I trust, I, say,

1126
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:24,440
a Joe to take shots. I trust Aaron Wickinson to

1127
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,239
take shots. You mentioned keseon Wallace, I trust him to

1128
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,559
take shots. Hell even lou Dord, even though he's shooting

1129
00:51:29,599 --> 00:51:32,679
twenty five percent of three this series, Like over the

1130
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,400
past couple of years, he's been such a good shooter

1131
00:51:35,519 --> 00:51:38,000
that I trust the ball to go through his hands

1132
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:41,159
a little bit more so if that is the necessary

1133
00:51:41,199 --> 00:51:46,840
response to jadub or chat not being able to utilize

1134
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,519
shirting matchups or not being able to hit from distance

1135
00:51:49,599 --> 00:51:52,679
or whatever. Yeah, that's that's a perfectly fine lever to pull.

1136
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:57,039
That said, I would prefer Jalen Williams and chet Holmekrom,

1137
00:51:57,039 --> 00:52:00,000
who are supposed to join Shay on the max contract.

1138
00:52:00,039 --> 00:52:06,199
I can fairly soon even to maybe start thinking about, Okay, like,

1139
00:52:06,639 --> 00:52:09,360
am I jacking a little too many contested shots? Am

1140
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:10,679
I not doing anything?

1141
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 3: Like?

1142
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 4: Am I doing enough to sort of twist my game

1143
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,480
into a different place where I can be productive?

1144
00:52:17,039 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 3: You know?

1145
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 4: I do I think Jaalen Williams has had a tough

1146
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:21,159
series offensively?

1147
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:21,760
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1148
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,039
Speaker 4: Do I also think there are times where he actually

1149
00:52:24,079 --> 00:52:26,880
tries to do something else? I do, but I don't

1150
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:28,679
necessarily think he does it all the time. And there

1151
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:32,679
are elements where he's just young, right, twenty three years

1152
00:52:32,679 --> 00:52:35,599
old and is going to make mistakes of that nature

1153
00:52:35,639 --> 00:52:38,599
of that age group. Same coach with Chet, so like

1154
00:52:38,679 --> 00:52:41,599
I have patience, but if you're going for a title

1155
00:52:41,639 --> 00:52:46,039
and you need to be pretty harsh about it, like

1156
00:52:46,119 --> 00:52:48,519
if this continues, yeah, you got to put more on

1157
00:52:48,559 --> 00:52:49,119
the reserves.

1158
00:52:49,159 --> 00:52:53,039
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I'd be curious to see. And then you get

1159
00:52:53,039 --> 00:52:54,960
into well, who are the minutes coming at the expense

1160
00:52:55,039 --> 00:52:56,719
of and I guess maybe you knife into door it,

1161
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,519
but you can ratchet up Alex Caruso's minutes if he's starting,

1162
00:52:59,559 --> 00:53:01,639
and then cut even like a little bit more from

1163
00:53:01,679 --> 00:53:04,519
the top off of Dort. But I do think the

1164
00:53:04,559 --> 00:53:07,280
thunder they can get away from like what makes them

1165
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:09,239
dangerous offense And again credit the.

1166
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:10,800
Speaker 2: Nuggets defense are the work they've done.

1167
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 1: But there's just and Shae might even be a part

1168
00:53:12,519 --> 00:53:14,679
of it where it's why are so many of these possessions,

1169
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:17,800
especially in crunch time, there's just no driving, like it's

1170
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:19,840
just like it feels like they're settling. We saw it

1171
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:21,679
in Game four. I think even more with their offense

1172
00:53:21,679 --> 00:53:25,000
whereas they didn't have like sixty drives in game three

1173
00:53:25,199 --> 00:53:27,960
or something, and then it's like forty three drives or

1174
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,840
whatever in game four, and it's this is what makes

1175
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:34,559
you special in the absence of having if you think, Okay,

1176
00:53:34,559 --> 00:53:36,280
there's j Dubb and there's Shay and there's just not

1177
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:38,079
a ton of guys who can create their own looks

1178
00:53:38,159 --> 00:53:41,079
chet Holmgrin included there. I don't like seeing them like

1179
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:44,320
stray away from that so often, especially when they were

1180
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:47,039
so consistent and overwhelming with it during the regular season

1181
00:53:47,079 --> 00:53:50,119
and even in that you know, Memphis Grizzly series, and

1182
00:53:50,159 --> 00:53:52,360
then it's if you're in danger of doing that or

1183
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:54,119
if you're trying to figure out a way to inoculate

1184
00:53:54,159 --> 00:53:57,079
yourself against that. I do wonder if Aaron Wiggins is

1185
00:53:57,119 --> 00:53:59,440
more of the answer it's you. You might concede some

1186
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:03,079
stuff offensively, but like he can just do more on

1187
00:54:03,159 --> 00:54:05,719
offense than a case in Wallace he is. I would

1188
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:08,400
say he's definitely. Maybe he's not as willing to know,

1189
00:54:08,519 --> 00:54:10,159
he's as willing to fire him up as Alue Door,

1190
00:54:10,199 --> 00:54:12,480
but he's more dynamic on offense than Door as well,

1191
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:14,719
And so is that something worth Where did he play

1192
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,960
fifteen minutes in Game four, like that just might be

1193
00:54:18,039 --> 00:54:20,119
someone who I'm giving more.

1194
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 2: Of a look to.

1195
00:54:21,599 --> 00:54:24,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, you're speaking my language. I love him. I

1196
00:54:24,599 --> 00:54:27,559
love Aaron Wakins. I think he is, you know, not

1197
00:54:27,679 --> 00:54:30,000
in terms of, like, oh, one of the most underrated,

1198
00:54:30,199 --> 00:54:32,639
you know, like he says he would be a star elsewhere.

1199
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:33,559
Speaker 3: That's not what I'm saying.

1200
00:54:33,599 --> 00:54:35,559
Speaker 4: But I do think generally speaking, he's one of the

1201
00:54:35,679 --> 00:54:37,880
more underrated NBA players out there.

1202
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's someone who in this is maybe you could

1203
00:54:40,079 --> 00:54:41,639
say this about a couple of Thunder players, but it

1204
00:54:41,639 --> 00:54:44,159
feels like he would start on twenty other teams.

1205
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:47,840
Speaker 4: Yeah. No, I think that is a completely fair assessment.

1206
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:52,119
The shooting, obviously we know that. But this year he

1207
00:54:52,199 --> 00:54:56,039
added a little bit more on ball creation to his game.

1208
00:54:56,519 --> 00:54:58,840
I think we've seen some passing chops, even though he

1209
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:01,679
doesn't wrack up raw. I don't know, like I haven't

1210
00:55:01,679 --> 00:55:04,159
gone into the weeds with this one if he's more

1211
00:55:04,199 --> 00:55:07,000
of like an hockey assist guy. But it does feel

1212
00:55:07,039 --> 00:55:09,599
to me this year compared to last year, he's just

1213
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:13,199
making more high quality passes. So I think he has

1214
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,159
taken a bit of an evolution from last year to

1215
00:55:16,199 --> 00:55:20,480
this one where he's actually sort of come out of

1216
00:55:20,519 --> 00:55:25,039
that very limited three and sometimes d roll last year

1217
00:55:25,559 --> 00:55:28,239
to this year. He's more of a fully fledged scorer

1218
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:30,920
that it'd be interesting to see if he could carry

1219
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:32,880
that mantle in the playoffs where he actually gets the

1220
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,199
ball in his hands a little bit more instead of being,

1221
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:39,800
you know, entirely reliant upon reacting to the actions of others.

1222
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 1: It's interesting you notice that because during the regular season

1223
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:48,480
he basically more than doubled his potential assists per game,

1224
00:55:48,519 --> 00:55:50,280
and it's not like his role he got so much

1225
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:52,320
bigger either. So this is I don't think you can

1226
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,239
trust him to do it, but there's certainly more depth

1227
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:56,159
to it, so you can.

1228
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,280
Speaker 2: If you're looking to.

1229
00:55:57,639 --> 00:56:00,199
Speaker 1: Capitalize on driving kick stuff like that, is someone who

1230
00:56:00,199 --> 00:56:04,039
I do think can be not primary engine for it,

1231
00:56:04,079 --> 00:56:07,400
but certainly just like a safety net for it.

1232
00:56:07,519 --> 00:56:09,639
Speaker 2: Let's even call it no.

1233
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 3: But you're right.

1234
00:56:10,559 --> 00:56:12,599
Speaker 4: I mean he's I think he's that kind of player.

1235
00:56:12,639 --> 00:56:15,239
It'd be interesting to see Mark Daignol dust him off

1236
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:19,239
at a higher capacity. Now I don't want to go

1237
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:22,760
this far, but I also think if you're looking at

1238
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:28,840
offensive production, offensive fluidity, whatever, I wouldn't hate Jalen Williams

1239
00:56:29,079 --> 00:56:32,679
minutes in the front court a little bit more as well. Look,

1240
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:37,639
he's obviously there's a major step down from Chet and Hartenstein,

1241
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,840
but if Chet keeps breaking threes, if he's not really

1242
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:46,039
that assertive offensively, I wouldn't mind relinquishing a few of

1243
00:56:46,039 --> 00:56:49,719
those minutes to go to Jalen Williams instead, just to

1244
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:52,960
make things happen. He's a wonderful ball player for someone

1245
00:56:53,039 --> 00:56:56,880
his size, can really make a pass, He rebounds pretty well,

1246
00:56:57,199 --> 00:56:57,880
can shoot it.

1247
00:56:58,320 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 3: Like.

1248
00:56:59,039 --> 00:57:03,559
Speaker 4: This team is rediculously deep and ridiculously good, so they

1249
00:57:03,599 --> 00:57:06,840
have options. It's just a matter of like when is

1250
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:08,760
the time to realize, oh, yeah, we got to pull

1251
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:12,559
the plot on this specific player, uh for the rest

1252
00:57:12,599 --> 00:57:14,000
of the game or for the rest of the half

1253
00:57:14,039 --> 00:57:15,679
of the rest of the quarter, because he's just had

1254
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:19,159
doesn't have it. Like, I also appreciate Mark Diakno basically

1255
00:57:19,159 --> 00:57:21,599
sticking with j Dubb and Chet and going no, no,

1256
00:57:21,639 --> 00:57:23,760
you'll fight through through to this and you'll find a way.

1257
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:29,239
Speaker 1: So far, though, I think I felt way better about

1258
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:31,880
jdeb series overall than Chet's though, And so it's just

1259
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,719
like the shooting, like the efficiency isn't necessarily there but

1260
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:38,159
like he's done some stuff inside the arc the j Will.

1261
00:57:38,559 --> 00:57:40,159
That's interesting because I would look at it as more

1262
00:57:40,199 --> 00:57:42,679
as if you're looking to continue to come up this series,

1263
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:45,360
because that's another body that you can throw in. Yokich

1264
00:57:45,559 --> 00:57:48,760
and the Nuggets in this series are scoring point seven

1265
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:52,440
points per possession when Jay Will registers as a defender

1266
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:56,440
on Jokic. That is, for anyone that's that's low. The

1267
00:57:56,519 --> 00:57:58,880
league average in the playoffs I think is like one

1268
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:00,400
four one point one five points.

1269
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:02,079
Speaker 3: So very small sample size.

1270
00:58:02,119 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 1: Obviously, yes, playoff sample sizes matter, though, so that's true.

1271
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,239
That'd be that is true that I guess. I just

1272
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:11,639
I don't know that I see the Jay Will value

1273
00:58:11,639 --> 00:58:13,719
proposition from an offensive I guess if you're looking for

1274
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:15,519
someone to set like more solid, I would see it

1275
00:58:15,519 --> 00:58:17,480
more as like a defensive thing, I guess is what

1276
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:18,039
I'm getting at.

1277
00:58:18,079 --> 00:58:21,599
Speaker 4: Oh okay, that's interesting, I see. I I think he's

1278
00:58:21,639 --> 00:58:24,519
also pretty dynamic in terms of when he's on the perimeter.

1279
00:58:25,519 --> 00:58:27,760
Maybe I need to like watch a little closer on

1280
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,320
that specifically, but I do think he's a guy it

1281
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:32,519
seems sort of like eyeing all the time when he's

1282
00:58:32,559 --> 00:58:34,239
outside the long line.

1283
00:58:34,639 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 1: So then from you, I guess from your perspective, it's

1284
00:58:37,559 --> 00:58:40,599
if there's minutes where it's him and Chet and then

1285
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:43,159
that you can still kind of have size but also

1286
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:46,239
have like a faux five out spacing let's call, because

1287
00:58:46,239 --> 00:58:50,119
I don't think defenses aren't gonna religiously guard j him.

1288
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:53,199
Speaker 4: That makes sense, Yeah, right, him or Hardenstein or even

1289
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:54,000
him and Chet.

1290
00:58:54,039 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 3: Really, I mean just basically I think him and Hens.

1291
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:57,599
Speaker 2: Are pretty physical.

1292
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:00,079
Speaker 1: That to me would be more like we're gonna try to,

1293
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,519
you know, f your world up on the defensive end.

1294
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:04,599
Speaker 4: I mean, look, you can do that and still have

1295
00:59:04,599 --> 00:59:06,599
a spacing presence on the other side of the floor.

1296
00:59:06,599 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 3: I yeah, absolutely, I'd be down for it. There.

1297
00:59:09,599 --> 00:59:13,639
Speaker 4: The thing is, to me, though, the main takeaway is, Okaye,

1298
00:59:13,719 --> 00:59:18,199
you have so many more possible constellations and you know,

1299
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:22,519
not gimmicks, but like it's it's basically a game of

1300
00:59:22,519 --> 00:59:25,239
Tetris for them because they can just sort of slide

1301
00:59:25,599 --> 00:59:29,320
players in such many of varieties like what can Denver do?

1302
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:32,440
Speaker 3: What do they even have in that regard?

1303
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:36,199
Speaker 1: Their margin for error is even with the series too

1304
00:59:36,199 --> 00:59:38,239
too and a very easily it could be three to

1305
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:39,440
one in either team's favor.

1306
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 3: At this point.

1307
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like their margin for error is just so

1308
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:44,360
much slimmer than Oklahoma City.

1309
00:59:44,639 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 3: Really. Yeah, And that's my main takeaway honestly for this series, like.

1310
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 4: They Denver has to play virtually perfect basketball from here

1311
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:53,199
on that.

1312
00:59:54,199 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 1: I do think if you believe that Jokic is gonna

1313
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:58,880
just and there's not necessarily a reason to say that

1314
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:00,880
Yokic won't be yo Kich at some point, I think

1315
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:04,119
you can look at this and say, if you believe that,

1316
01:00:04,679 --> 01:00:06,239
you have to feel pretty good about being two to

1317
01:00:06,239 --> 01:00:08,599
two after the past three games that Yokich play.

1318
01:00:08,719 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 4: Yes, especially when you also consider the very short turnaround

1319
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:15,320
by the way, something we forgot to get into. What

1320
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:19,079
the hell they were playing super late Friday and very

1321
01:00:19,119 --> 01:00:22,440
early Sunday. They didn't even get forty eight hour turnaround, Like.

1322
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:23,039
Speaker 2: No, they didn't.

1323
01:00:23,119 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 1: And the benefit one benefit of that is is now

1324
01:00:25,519 --> 01:00:29,679
you get the longer rest period between your game five,

1325
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:32,119
like between Sunday and then your game five on Tuesday.

1326
01:00:32,159 --> 01:00:35,159
But that scheduling was just and it wasn't like, yeah,

1327
01:00:35,199 --> 01:00:37,440
the only game that was on or followed by a

1328
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,119
West Coast game. It was no Cleveland, Indiana or the

1329
01:00:40,199 --> 01:00:41,719
night game, which made no sense. And I'm sure it

1330
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:44,639
had something to do with arena conflicts or something, but

1331
01:00:44,679 --> 01:00:46,840
it just made no sense.

1332
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:49,519
Speaker 4: No, And I just think when you have such a

1333
01:00:49,519 --> 01:00:52,760
delicious series, it just hurts it, right. I Mean, there

1334
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:54,960
are many ways I could look at this and come

1335
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:58,280
away with this being basically the Western Conference Finals honestly,

1336
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:01,960
just from an er perspective as well, I.

1337
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,559
Speaker 1: Think you could say that just because the looming uncertainty

1338
01:01:04,559 --> 01:01:07,840
with Steph and Golden State, and then just you can't,

1339
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,360
like it felt like Minnesota was trying like hell to

1340
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:13,480
lose Game three against Golden State, and so I just

1341
01:01:13,519 --> 01:01:16,480
don't I will never trust Minnesota's offense ever. Again, I

1342
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:18,760
don't think like maybe if they trade for Kevin Durant,

1343
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:22,360
But so yeah, And look, it's not unfair to say

1344
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:24,320
that because are regardless of who makes it out of

1345
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:26,760
this series versus who they would face in the Conference finals,

1346
01:01:27,519 --> 01:01:30,920
I think teams are probably maybe Denver versus Minnesota. Would

1347
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:33,679
people pick Minnesota, But I actually think whoever comes out

1348
01:01:33,719 --> 01:01:35,440
of this series will be favored to make it to

1349
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:36,880
the NBA Finals out of the West.

1350
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,119
Speaker 4: Like I respect people would take Minnesota over Denver. Like

1351
01:01:40,159 --> 01:01:43,760
I understand all the logical reasons for that, but can

1352
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:48,800
we really like, look if Yo Kitch with very few

1353
01:01:49,239 --> 01:01:52,880
like with very little help, beats the Thunder and also

1354
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:58,199
comes out of a seven game series with the Clippers, like, eventually,

1355
01:01:58,199 --> 01:02:00,039
we're gonna have to say, okay, like.

1356
01:02:01,039 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 1: I would be morally obligated. Yeah, I would be morally

1357
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:06,519
obligated to pick the Nuggets in that because I picked

1358
01:02:06,559 --> 01:02:08,559
against them with the Clippers, picked against them with the Thunder,

1359
01:02:08,559 --> 01:02:10,119
and if they beat those two teams, and yeah, I

1360
01:02:10,159 --> 01:02:11,000
would have to pick them.

1361
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 2: To beat the Timberwolves or Warriors.

1362
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:14,559
Speaker 1: I think honestly, I think they probably eat the Warriors alive,

1363
01:02:14,679 --> 01:02:16,800
just giving Golden State's lack of size everywhere.

1364
01:02:17,039 --> 01:02:19,039
Speaker 2: But yeah, uh yeah, so.

1365
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:22,199
Speaker 1: I would have there's your there's your Constellation. Nuggets fans

1366
01:02:22,239 --> 01:02:24,199
don't know. I they're gonna beat the Thunder. I still

1367
01:02:24,239 --> 01:02:26,079
wouldn't predict it. But if they do, I'm just gonna

1368
01:02:26,079 --> 01:02:28,119
pick them to make the NBA Finals because I will

1369
01:02:28,159 --> 01:02:29,639
have a moral obligation to do so.

1370
01:02:30,159 --> 01:02:33,599
Speaker 4: I will say this, despite the very ugly Game four

1371
01:02:34,679 --> 01:02:39,119
Denver Okase, I enjoy these games. I mean these two

1372
01:02:39,239 --> 01:02:42,599
series in particular that we talked about, Like I'm getting

1373
01:02:42,599 --> 01:02:44,280
a little fired up before game time.

1374
01:02:44,719 --> 01:02:46,039
Speaker 3: I'm gonna level with you there.

1375
01:02:46,199 --> 01:02:49,440
Speaker 4: I'm not getting fired up for well, I'm getting a

1376
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:51,360
little fired up because the Knicks had such a great

1377
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:52,400
start against the Celtics.

1378
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 3: But I'm not getting fired This is just.

1379
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 2: My whole thing.

1380
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:58,119
Speaker 1: And if this is being published after they won Game

1381
01:02:58,159 --> 01:03:01,360
four whatever, they fell by twenty points in the first

1382
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:03,360
two games, this is just fair.

1383
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:03,920
Speaker 3: Okay.

1384
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:06,920
Speaker 4: Let me rephrase the fact that they won the first

1385
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:08,880
two games.

1386
01:03:08,079 --> 01:03:09,719
Speaker 2: They won they wanted.

1387
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 1: They won two more games than I honestly expected them

1388
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:15,079
to win, and I picked them to lose in five.

1389
01:03:15,119 --> 01:03:17,119
I thought that Boston, I thought, and I thought that

1390
01:03:17,159 --> 01:03:20,639
game was game one, so that series is interesting in

1391
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:24,639
series score, and even if Boston's losing three to one.

1392
01:03:25,199 --> 01:03:26,880
Speaker 2: But I'm I think these are the two.

1393
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:28,880
Speaker 1: Most compelling series that we just talked about. And I

1394
01:03:29,239 --> 01:03:32,719
do believe Golden State Minnesota would have had a chance.

1395
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,400
But like the Steph injury is just like that nukes

1396
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:37,000
so much of the interest.

1397
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:41,199
Speaker 4: I'll also admit, just personally, outside of and and I

1398
01:03:41,239 --> 01:03:43,599
said this before, I just don't find the Wolves all

1399
01:03:43,639 --> 01:03:46,679
that compelling. Although it is refreshing to see that Julius

1400
01:03:46,719 --> 01:03:49,519
Randall that has sort of broken that whole, you know,

1401
01:03:49,679 --> 01:03:51,360
negative mantra he had around him.

1402
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 3: That's interesting.

1403
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:55,199
Speaker 1: He's been he's been fun to watch, and they're like

1404
01:03:55,239 --> 01:03:58,119
even against the Lakers, like him, like putting the clamps

1405
01:03:58,119 --> 01:04:01,039
on Lebron James at point. This has been I made

1406
01:04:01,079 --> 01:04:02,719
a joke and then they were just fans from both

1407
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:04,840
teams got mad. But like Knicks fans like crying because

1408
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:07,280
they're seeing Julius Randall come up. It wasn't about should

1409
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:09,239
they have made the cat trade? It was they had

1410
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:11,639
those playoff runs of Julius Rendl were just so bad.

1411
01:04:12,239 --> 01:04:14,519
And now he's healthy and he's on a team that

1412
01:04:14,559 --> 01:04:16,519
has him in the right role for the most part,

1413
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:18,679
and he just he looks good and he like the

1414
01:04:18,679 --> 01:04:20,440
Wolves are here. That's a big part of why I mean,

1415
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:23,000
I don't trust them at all because Minison and by

1416
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:25,480
the way, Indiana fell into that bucket for all the

1417
01:04:25,519 --> 01:04:28,440
Pacers have done. You. We had some pushback because you

1418
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:31,920
called them consistent before we came into this series. They

1419
01:04:32,039 --> 01:04:33,840
with the timber Wolves apply the team that like plays

1420
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,119
down to that level of their opponents, and that might

1421
01:04:36,159 --> 01:04:38,519
be the thing that you would be concerned about the

1422
01:04:38,519 --> 01:04:41,280
most as a Pacers fan against like they almost It

1423
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:44,239
says a lot that that game where the Cavs didn't

1424
01:04:44,239 --> 01:04:46,840
have you could argue three of their five most important

1425
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:49,880
players and Indy like almost lost that that would have

1426
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:54,039
been the typical Pacers loss was Game two, And yet

1427
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:56,679
they go up against Cleveland, gets healthier, and then they

1428
01:04:56,719 --> 01:04:58,239
run them out of the gym even more quick like

1429
01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:00,679
explain that I can't Nope.

1430
01:05:01,239 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 4: It's something that underlines this belief that I have that

1431
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:10,519
it's never the product here, Like when people are pissed

1432
01:05:10,519 --> 01:05:12,360
off at the NBA, at least right now, it's not

1433
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:16,239
the product. It's the presentation. Because I can sit there

1434
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:18,280
and I can be pissed off at games. I can

1435
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:20,280
be pissed off at refs, I can be pissed off

1436
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:21,000
at a lot of things.

1437
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:23,320
Speaker 3: But like holistically, when.

1438
01:05:23,199 --> 01:05:26,280
Speaker 4: I take a step back and I try to evaluate

1439
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:30,480
the quality of the product right now, no matter how

1440
01:05:30,519 --> 01:05:33,679
hard I tried, Dan, I just can't poke enough holes

1441
01:05:33,719 --> 01:05:36,039
in it to the point where I'm like, this league

1442
01:05:36,079 --> 01:05:39,400
is dumb. This is bad basketball. The nineties and eighties

1443
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:43,280
were better. This is fucking brilliant basketball. You just have

1444
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:47,840
a bunch of old fucks on television who are complaining

1445
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:50,159
about it and have done so over twenty goddamn years,

1446
01:05:50,559 --> 01:05:53,320
like this is fantastic basketball.

1447
01:05:53,559 --> 01:05:55,000
Speaker 1: And that ties into what you were saying, where I

1448
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:57,039
really do believe a lot of it's a messaging problem.

1449
01:05:57,159 --> 01:05:58,800
And then in so far as there is a problem

1450
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:01,400
with the product, a lot of it's regular season, the

1451
01:06:01,519 --> 01:06:03,719
length of it problem, because look at what happens when

1452
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:06,639
these games are just they're these incredible chess matches.

1453
01:06:06,719 --> 01:06:09,480
Speaker 2: And I applaud the chaos of these playoffs.

1454
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:12,199
Speaker 1: I have those like first three or four days of

1455
01:06:12,239 --> 01:06:15,000
the second round. If we would have had to record

1456
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:17,000
a podcast at I mean, I'm sure we did.

1457
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:18,840
Speaker 2: I had no clue what was going on.

1458
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:22,000
Speaker 1: It was just confusing as hell, like the Knicks comebacks,

1459
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:25,159
all these comebacks that the way that the Pacers won

1460
01:06:25,239 --> 01:06:26,920
that for everything was just bonkers.

1461
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:28,599
Speaker 2: And it's been I've had a lot of fun.

1462
01:06:28,599 --> 01:06:31,159
Speaker 1: It's been, like you said, brilliant basketball, even when it's ugly,

1463
01:06:31,199 --> 01:06:32,239
because there's a lot of things.

1464
01:06:32,079 --> 01:06:33,400
Speaker 2: To appreciate about defenses.

1465
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:36,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, more are you able to tell our listeners where

1466
01:06:36,079 --> 01:06:37,639
they can find you and all the fine work that

1467
01:06:37,679 --> 01:06:37,960
you do.

1468
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:42,159
Speaker 4: Over at Forbes, over at Yahoo, And then I do

1469
01:06:42,239 --> 01:06:46,079
the pod which is basically here in your feed. Whether

1470
01:06:46,119 --> 01:06:49,280
you're listening to the Hardwood Knox or the NBA podcast,

1471
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:52,480
it's more or less the same. Like we're basically we've

1472
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:56,440
become the interview meeting, same but different.

1473
01:06:56,719 --> 01:06:58,920
Speaker 3: That's that's us now because there.

1474
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:00,199
Speaker 2: We have our crossover them though.

1475
01:07:00,199 --> 01:07:02,679
Speaker 1: It's just like any good franchise does, right.

1476
01:07:03,239 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 3: We just have like seven hundred of them every month.

1477
01:07:06,559 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 1: Yes, until next time. Ben, As always, I think you

1478
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:12,920
have the shout out to the one, the only, the indelible.

1479
01:07:13,159 --> 01:07:15,599
Speaker 2: If any of these playoff teams could sign him, they would.

1480
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:22,360
Speaker 1: Immediately win the championship. Mister Frank, team