Speaker 1: Our homes. They're comfortable, relaxing, and safe. It's our place
Speaker 1: where we can be ourselves and hide from the outside world.
Speaker 1: Let our guard down today. Our story will start with
Speaker 1: a loving family in their home and a wide open window,
Speaker 1: which left fourteen year old Elizabeth Smart very vulnerable, and
Speaker 1: soon her parents would find out that their child was
Speaker 1: no longer in the protection of their home, but rather
Speaker 1: in the unforgiving grasp of her kidnapper.
Speaker 2: Warning.
Speaker 1: The following podcast contains graphic content and material intended for
Speaker 1: a mature audience. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2: Well, hello there, my name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're
Speaker 2: listening to Wicked and Grim.
Speaker 1: A true crime podcast. Hello, Hello, welcome back to Wicked
Speaker 1: and Grim. It has to happen.
Speaker 2: So we all just get to now be afraid of
Speaker 2: never sleeping with our windows open.
Speaker 1: Essentially that's how we roll.
Speaker 2: Ye. Well, yeah, so we now like we we have
Speaker 2: to lock our doors and now we can't leave our
Speaker 2: windows open pretty much.
Speaker 1: That's that's exactly how it's gonna happen.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, oh boy.
Speaker 1: If there's anything you should learn from a true crime podcast,
Speaker 1: it's probably that you should lock your doors.
Speaker 2: Even if you live on a balcony exactly, even if
Speaker 2: you live on a balcony, please.
Speaker 1: Because we've talked before some dudes scaling about a freaking
Speaker 1: apartment building. Yeah, what was it like the fifth or
Speaker 1: sixth floor?
Speaker 2: Wasn't I have seven or eight?
Speaker 1: I think my multiple floors?
Speaker 2: That is insane and terrifying.
Speaker 1: Into someone's place. So lock your shit, hid your kids.
Speaker 1: Hi'd your wife.
Speaker 2: Just become a hermit? Eh?
Speaker 1: Pretty much in the woods.
Speaker 2: But something bad could still happen to you.
Speaker 1: But being a hermit in the woods, Okay, how awesome
Speaker 1: would that be? Especially this day and age with society?
Speaker 1: How it is the basic recession that is apparently predicted
Speaker 1: to come upon us because look at gas prices, everything
Speaker 1: is skyrocketing.
Speaker 2: Thess of living is insane right now?
Speaker 1: Would eight and I don't care how big it is?
Speaker 1: A twelve by twelve cabin, like, not even a bedroom,
Speaker 1: just a twelve by twelve cabin out in the woods.
Speaker 1: You're isolated on your own little property. How incredible would
Speaker 1: that be?
Speaker 2: Ritten? Oh yeah, I dream of that shit often.
Speaker 1: Please let's make it out and we.
Speaker 2: Could still bring our WiFi with us. We could podcast, Yeah,
Speaker 2: so like we'd be fine.
Speaker 1: Oh shit, we'd be like fucking handsome.
Speaker 2: We would have to be I guess growing our own
Speaker 2: food and stuff though, like next level. And then we'd
Speaker 2: have to come into town every once in a while,
Speaker 2: maybe get a new animal, may have animals. Ben won't
Speaker 2: let me get a new kitten.
Speaker 1: We live in a tiny home and we have two
Speaker 1: giant huskies and a Kiwi cat.
Speaker 2: I know, and I'm just I'm torturing myself. I literally
Speaker 2: have gone and visited them twice.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I should clarify Kiwi cat. Kiwis the name of
Speaker 1: our cat. So if you don't know a Kiwi cat,
Speaker 1: that's just our cat.
Speaker 2: Oh what did you say? I didn't, I said a
Speaker 2: Kiwi cat, a Kiwi cat. Yeah, two huskies and a
Speaker 2: Kiwi Yeah. But yeah, and I just go and snuggle
Speaker 2: the shit out of these kittens.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's dangerous.
Speaker 2: Oh and I look into their eyeballs and they want
Speaker 2: to come home with me.
Speaker 1: But can't be doing all that all the time.
Speaker 2: I know, I know they'll go to good homes.
Speaker 1: They will.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But moving on from cutesy little animals and living at
Speaker 1: bitch cabins, I did want to talk about our cool
Speaker 1: new design that we have for merch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exclusive merch, very exclusive, like about as exclusive as
Speaker 2: it gets.
Speaker 1: So we have an account over on red Bubble where
Speaker 1: an incredible amount of people have purchased our merch t shirts, stickers,
Speaker 1: water bottles, blankets, even socks. Socks, yeah, lots of socks.
Speaker 1: But we decided, you know what, We've done some giveaways
Speaker 1: where we give away some of our merch, but what
Speaker 1: if we create a cool design. And I think we've
Speaker 1: talked about this in the last episode, what if we
Speaker 1: create a cool design that is specifically only four giveaways.
Speaker 1: So you did it. I did it. I did some
Speaker 1: doodling on my digital art painting thing and came up
Speaker 1: with a design.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's awesome. It's so good.
Speaker 1: So if you want to see it, you can head
Speaker 1: over and check us out on Instagram and Facebook. We'll
Speaker 1: post a picture there.
Speaker 2: Patreon or patrons have already seen it.
Speaker 1: Patrons, Yeah, heads up on that.
Speaker 2: People have said it's your favor their favorite design.
Speaker 1: So far exactly, So I'm glad they like it. And
Speaker 1: the only way you're going to ever be able to
Speaker 1: get this design on any sort of merch is winning
Speaker 1: a giveaway of sorts from us. So I feel like we're.
Speaker 2: Gonna able to do some like a few giveaways now,
Speaker 2: I think. So I got to get this design out
Speaker 2: there of a few.
Speaker 1: Giveaways before we get to this case. One last thing
Speaker 1: I want to drop. We were just talking about doing
Speaker 1: a big old.
Speaker 2: Giveaway, a massive giveaway, so.
Speaker 1: It's going to be really cool. There will be only
Speaker 1: one winner for it. It will be some real cool
Speaker 1: like epic package deal thing, so watch out for that.
Speaker 1: That's going to be coming soon, you good bro.
Speaker 2: A mosquito just landed on my mic. I wanted to
Speaker 2: kill it, but I couldn't.
Speaker 1: Pretty sure you went cross eyed steering.
Speaker 2: I know, I was like mosquitos are I said, did
Speaker 2: I say that to you the other day? Basically? The
Speaker 2: only animal'll ever.
Speaker 1: Kill fair enough? I mean they're not really an animal
Speaker 1: or an insect.
Speaker 2: Class the only other living being there. You go, I
Speaker 2: don't know, Okay, yeah, no, this giveaway is going to
Speaker 2: be so cool. So I was very distracted by the mosquito.
Speaker 1: So if you want to heads up on all these
Speaker 1: sort of things, because we talk to our patrons about
Speaker 1: all this sort of good stuff, you can head over
Speaker 1: to Patreon sign up over there. And speaking of Patreon.
Speaker 1: We have a patron who signed up this week, actually
Speaker 1: signed they signed up just like an hour today prior
Speaker 1: to recording.
Speaker 2: So cool.
Speaker 1: So, Matthew Rolu, I really hope I said your name right?
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for signing up. You amazing, you wicked.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Matthew exactly. So how do you
Speaker 2: sell the last name? Oh?
Speaker 1: I turned my phone off? Oh shoot, I think it
Speaker 1: was ro Ul Eau.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, okay, right on, cool.
Speaker 1: Last name it is? So without further ado, you ready
Speaker 1: to get into this case?
Speaker 2: I am yeah, now that you've really piqued her interest
Speaker 2: there well.
Speaker 1: As I mentioned in the intro of this whole story,
Speaker 1: it revolves around a fourteen year old girl and that
Speaker 1: girl's name is Elizabeth.
Speaker 2: Smart, which is sad as hell.
Speaker 1: So Elizabeth was born on November third, nineteen eighty seven,
Speaker 1: in Salt Lake City, Utah. She was born into a
Speaker 1: loving family that found a lot of pride in their
Speaker 1: Mormon belief and Elizabeth was the second oldest child in
Speaker 1: the family where she had four brothers and one sister. Now,
Speaker 1: clearly that's a busy home with six children, right, that's
Speaker 1: a lot of children. But each of them were loved
Speaker 1: and cared for by their parents, Ed and Lois Smart.
Speaker 1: Each of them were loved and cared for just as
Speaker 1: much as the next one beside them. So it was
Speaker 1: a very loving home, great place for kids to be good.
Speaker 2: I love that. Now.
Speaker 1: Elizabeth was looking forward to her middle school, graduation from
Speaker 1: Bryant Middle School and moving into East High School in
Speaker 1: Salt Lake City. But soon young Elizabeth would be worrying
Speaker 1: about much different things, things that would let's say, dwarf
Speaker 1: her thoughts about, say church, her heart lessons. Oh oh,
Speaker 1: the main thing on her mind would be turned to survival. Dundunay.
Speaker 2: I know, I was like, really wondering where you're with that.
Speaker 2: I was like wondering if someone she was like chatting
Speaker 2: with someone or something.
Speaker 1: So, uh, what do you mean by chatting with someone?
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. Sometimes kids get into things that
Speaker 2: they're not sup sed to get, or talk to people
Speaker 2: that they shouldn't be talking to, or hanging out with
Speaker 2: the wrong crowd or something, and then their life takes
Speaker 2: a turn.
Speaker 1: Not Elizabeth, Okay, No, she was not in any sort
Speaker 1: of online chat rooms. There was no like a weird
Speaker 1: boyfriend or anything like that. She had her little group
Speaker 1: of friends, and they were tight. They were good kids.
Speaker 1: She was quite quiet and reserved. She was just all
Speaker 1: around like a picture perfect, cute fourteen year old girl.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, doing what fourteen year old girls should
Speaker 1: be doing, and being a good kid. Like you couldn't
Speaker 1: ask for a better daughter. Essentially as far as I can.
Speaker 2: Find, Oh my gosh, my heart. Okay.
Speaker 1: So with that being said, in the early morning hours
Speaker 1: of June fifth in two thousand and two, Elizabeth's nine
Speaker 1: year old sister, Mary Catherine, who shared her room with Elizabeth,
Speaker 1: would make her way into her parents' bedroom. She would
Speaker 1: walk over to her mom's side of the bed and
Speaker 1: wake her up. And she looked at her mom and
Speaker 1: she said, Mom, somebody has taken Elizabeth.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Could you imagine that's one way to
Speaker 2: be woken up?
Speaker 1: That would be scary. Yeah, But now, not realizing the
Speaker 1: severity of the situation, both parents got out of bed
Speaker 1: and began searching the kid's room. I think more specifically,
Speaker 1: the father went down began searching first, while the mom
Speaker 1: stayed back.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you could honestly think, oh, maybe she's just
Speaker 2: somewhere in the house, right, Like, I don't exactly should
Speaker 2: be taken.
Speaker 1: They brushed it off at first, thinking that, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe this daughter had a bit of a nightmare and
Speaker 1: didn't realize, you know, maybe Elizabeth was just out of bed.
Speaker 2: Somewhere in the house, right exactly.
Speaker 1: So the father began looking and searching, and then the
Speaker 1: mother came down with Mary Catherine later a few moments later. Sorry,
Speaker 1: and Mary Catherine would speak up as she came down,
Speaker 1: and she would tell her parents as they were searching
Speaker 1: the house, you're not going to find her. A man
Speaker 1: has taken her.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: And then they turned on the light in the kitchen
Speaker 1: and that's when they saw that a kitchen window had
Speaker 1: been opened and a screen was sliced large enough for
Speaker 1: someone to fit through.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And in that moment they realized the severity.
Speaker 2: Of this, since you realize, some shit had gone down
Speaker 2: exactly so brutal.
Speaker 1: So this is where we start off with clos your
Speaker 1: fucking windows. Lock those doors.
Speaker 2: Well, like their window could technically have maybe even been closed.
Speaker 1: I believe it was left open. Oh there's no I
Speaker 1: couldn't find any certain evidence or certain statements saying it
Speaker 1: was left open.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean some windows you could probably open, oh,
Speaker 2: for sure, from the outside. Like I mean, I think
Speaker 2: a lot of the newer ones you lock them from
Speaker 2: the inside now a little bit, right, But I bet
Speaker 2: you there's a lot of windows out there where you.
Speaker 1: Don't well, I dear remember in elementary school, I would
Speaker 1: come home from school before my parents did. We live
Speaker 1: out in the sticks. There's no neighbors really around anywhere.
Speaker 1: And I lost the key to get inside, or I
Speaker 1: left it in home or something like. I didn't have
Speaker 1: a key, So I broke into my parents' house and
Speaker 1: I broke in via prying open a window, and my
Speaker 1: parents noticed damage to the window later, and I didn't
Speaker 1: speak up about it, being me seriously, Yeah, there wasn't
Speaker 1: much damage, Like they just know, why is this chipped?
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, So they're going to maybe listen to
Speaker 2: this like months down the road and be like.
Speaker 1: Maybe then, yeah, surprise, Mom and dad, it was me
Speaker 1: all along.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. On the things were your child, and
Speaker 2: you just must have been so I was a good boy. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's one way of putting it, eh.
Speaker 1: Back to Elizabeth though, back to the story. Immediately, of course,
Speaker 1: the Smart family phoned the police, and the police immediately
Speaker 1: locked down the neighborhood and began in their search. They
Speaker 1: searched the scene and found the cut open screen in
Speaker 1: the kitchen window and two chairs sitting at the bottom
Speaker 1: of the outside of this window. They were sitting back
Speaker 1: to back, which provided the intruder enough height to gain
Speaker 1: access to the window to gain the entrance. Okay, Now,
Speaker 1: evidence such as fingerprints or DNA were unfortunately not found
Speaker 1: anywhere on the scene, and searches using bloodhounds were used
Speaker 1: and they were even unsuccessful.
Speaker 2: Wow. Hey, so this person was probably wearing gloves.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming there was some statements about it being a
Speaker 1: contaminated crime scene. I'm not too certain how that would
Speaker 1: be if the police got in there prior to and
Speaker 1: searched around before locking it down and understanding. I'm not certain,
Speaker 1: but it could have been gloves, could have been the
Speaker 1: contaminated crime scene, could have been a combination. Now, the
Speaker 1: only evidence they had to go on was that of
Speaker 1: the witness, Mary Catherine, who shared the bedroom with Elizabeth. Is,
Speaker 1: of course, what did she see? What does she know?
Speaker 1: So the police talked to her and asked her her
Speaker 1: recount of what had happened, and she told them very
Speaker 1: consistently the same story, exactly what she had seen. She said,
Speaker 1: she woke up as a man had crept into their bedroom.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, and as many kids would do, frightened
Speaker 1: into this sort of catatonic state. Yeah, she pretended to
Speaker 1: be asleep. Oh no, she watched the man approach Elizabeth,
Speaker 1: wake her up and threaten her with what she thought
Speaker 1: was a gun, but later on we would discover was
Speaker 1: a knife, and he would say that I will hurt you.
Speaker 1: Don't make a sound, just come with me.
Speaker 2: Holy hack.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then he ushered her out of the bedroom,
Speaker 1: and moments later that both of them were gone, leaving
Speaker 1: Mary Catherine to wake up her parents.
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that is the whole beginning of this story,
Speaker 1: this whole debacle that we are about to unfold.
Speaker 2: That is a lot like I can't even imagine this.
Speaker 2: What would be going through this little nine year old
Speaker 2: girl's brain too? Like should I do something like, oh
Speaker 2: my goodness, how can you do anything? You couldn't? She
Speaker 2: did the right thing, probably right.
Speaker 1: Well, if she said anything.
Speaker 2: Or someone could have gotten really hurt exactly.
Speaker 1: Could have been her, could have been Elizabeth, You don't know.
Speaker 2: So the guy could have killed the whole family exactly.
Speaker 3: Really, yeah, so the police actually they did ask Elizabeth
Speaker 3: if she knew the man though, and more specifically, since
Speaker 3: it was dark and she couldn't see, they did ask
Speaker 3: if she recognized the voice as the man spoke to Elizabeth.
Speaker 1: Sorry, they asked Mary Catherine.
Speaker 2: I was going to say that, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So they asked Mary Catherine if she recognized the voice,
Speaker 1: and she said she wasn't able to identify the man visually,
Speaker 1: but she did recognize the voice, though she wasn't sure
Speaker 1: from where.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so familiar voice, huh. Now. The following day, reward
Speaker 1: for her rescue was publicly set at or two hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty thousand dollars, and the police were on lookout
Speaker 1: for the perpetrator.
Speaker 2: That's a lot.
Speaker 1: And they knew it wasn't a random attack, or they
Speaker 1: pretty much guaranteed knew it wasn't a random attack.
Speaker 2: I mean, it definitely already sounds very much like it
Speaker 2: was planned.
Speaker 1: It sounds very targeted. Yeah, cutting off the screen to
Speaker 1: a kitchen window and making their way into the specific
Speaker 1: girl's bedroom, which one yeah, selecting Elizabeth seemed very targeted
Speaker 1: all around you know, going in specifically to this fourteen
Speaker 1: year old room, not stealing anything, taking the girl and
Speaker 1: leaving like that.
Speaker 2: That's it sounds very thought through and it's not a
Speaker 2: crime riddeness they knew what they were doing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a very well established neighborhood, no low crime rate.
Speaker 1: It's just very very very fishy all around. Now, of course,
Speaker 1: the first seventy two hours are the most crucial, according
Speaker 1: to anyone, but mostly investigators. Each hour that goes by
Speaker 1: with a missing person in them not being found increases
Speaker 1: the chance of harm to the victim and also increases
Speaker 1: the chance of the perpetrator getting farther and farther away,
Speaker 1: making them harder and harder to locate. So investigators were
Speaker 1: trying to move as quick as possible.
Speaker 2: And it's seventy two hours.
Speaker 1: You said, the first seventy two hours are the most crucial.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, so like three days basically.
Speaker 1: Yes. The response in the community to Elizabeth missing was
Speaker 1: absolutely out of this world. Almost eighteen hundred people turned
Speaker 1: up to volunteer to look for her, and her case
Speaker 1: began to be followed worldwide.
Speaker 2: Right on. That is so good though, Yeah, people stepping
Speaker 2: up like that.
Speaker 1: I love that and it could very well be that
Speaker 1: a lot of people were able to relate to this
Speaker 1: because Elizabeth was just this picture perfect little girl who
Speaker 1: was just stolen from her bedroom while family's just trying
Speaker 1: to sleep. So this could have quite literally.
Speaker 2: Have been any anyone's kid, super relatable. Really, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So, and that very well could be why this was
Speaker 1: the case, because it's not like, oh, she was specifically
Speaker 1: doing this or specifically talking to them. It was she
Speaker 1: had no relation to anything, but yet she was still selected.
Speaker 2: What if it happened to me, Well, then it sounds
Speaker 2: like the family too, is also pretty involved in that
Speaker 2: community themselves and stuff, right they were, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So understandably, police began by eliminating, eliminating the first suspect
Speaker 1: that is always underneath the microscope initially in any case, which.
Speaker 2: Is the parents. The parents, Okay, yes.
Speaker 1: The family, Yeah, I got it right, ed smart being
Speaker 1: the father was suspect number one, and his brothers were
Speaker 1: also taken in by FBI for questioning, and they performed
Speaker 1: a polygraph test. Now the test would actually come back inconclusive.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, because those tests I need to do more
Speaker 2: research on them, but they just seem like a kind
Speaker 2: of a joke.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, the smarts also argue the validity of the tests.
Speaker 1: They said that these tests went on for hours on end.
Speaker 1: They were stressed out of their minds from this whole case.
Speaker 1: They're running on very little sleep over the last few days, yep,
Speaker 1: And so they were just like these tests like, there's
Speaker 1: no way, like, we did not do this, we have
Speaker 1: nothing to do with it. This is basically bullshit. When
Speaker 1: they called to these polygraph.
Speaker 2: Tests, I'm very much so a person probably would be
Speaker 2: innocent and take one of those tests and be shown
Speaker 2: as skelty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it just it tests stress levels. Oh test
Speaker 1: truth or lie.
Speaker 2: And my stress is always like through the roof, no
Speaker 2: matter what, And in that s the situation, I would
Speaker 2: be innocent and probably just be stressed, like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: did I actually do this?
Speaker 1: Is your name Nicole? Yes, I think so. It looks
Speaker 1: like she's lying, sir. But the inconclusive tests didn't stump
Speaker 1: the authorities though it was obvious a family wasn't responsible,
Speaker 1: They were merely going through procedures to rule them out
Speaker 1: as suspects officially, which they did so the family wouldn't
Speaker 1: end up being the only suspects under the scrutiny of authorities.
Speaker 1: Though a lead the authorities were able to follow were
Speaker 1: that of a local milkman who reported seeing a suspicious
Speaker 1: individual only a few blocks away from the Smart's family home.
Speaker 1: That man identified as twenty six year old Brett Michael Edmunds.
Speaker 1: Now the police were able to find him and question
Speaker 1: him easily enough due to his criminal warrants for fraud
Speaker 1: and assaulting a police officer the last month. Oh They
Speaker 1: went on to question him and they were quickly able
Speaker 1: to rule him out as a suspect as well, primarily
Speaker 1: due to the description of the individual and the description
Speaker 1: of this Brett Edmunds, because Brett was much taller, being
Speaker 1: he's six foot two two hundred and thirty five pounds,
Speaker 1: did not fit the description of the perpetrator, and of course,
Speaker 1: among other things, but that was a prime one. Now
Speaker 1: Special Agent Mick Fernerdi was an FBI's invested gator. In fact,
Speaker 1: he happened to be the lead investigator on this case,
Speaker 1: and he was able to drum up their next suspect.
Speaker 1: The Smarts were having some renovations done on their home
Speaker 1: over the course of the past few months, and on
Speaker 1: the list of the contractors who had been working on
Speaker 1: the place was a man by the name of Richard Reese,
Speaker 1: a man who had a criminal history including attempted homicide
Speaker 1: and burglary.
Speaker 2: Duh, Okay, that's actually very good suspect material. Hey, yes,
Speaker 2: would have known the house known the family.
Speaker 1: Oh and by the way, lois Smart. The mother also
Speaker 1: brought forward that while he was working at the house,
Speaker 1: she suspected he stole some jewelry oh outside the house,
Speaker 1: though I couldn't find anything about the jewelry specifically. When
Speaker 1: police went to actually arrest Richard, they found items in
Speaker 1: his home that did in fact belong to the Smarts
Speaker 1: previously that he had stolen o sh showing that he
Speaker 1: was in there and did steal from them.
Speaker 2: I can't believe they just let that go. Hey, yeah,
Speaker 2: because they would kind of know who it was, you
Speaker 2: would think, so you'm surprisingly insane.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, this family seems like to picture perfect. I
Speaker 1: think they're just like, it's okay sort of thing.
Speaker 2: You know. We had people come in here and we
Speaker 2: thought they like stole our baker's chocolate, and I was
Speaker 2: like so confused.
Speaker 1: Where did that go? Though I never found it.
Speaker 2: I think we did end up finding it in the cupboard.
Speaker 1: I don't know had we found it.
Speaker 2: It was like the weirdest thing because I also don't
Speaker 2: think that would taste good to just like eat as
Speaker 2: a chocolate.
Speaker 1: No, but it just didn't make sense because chocolate just
Speaker 1: goes missing. It was on or counter and then it
Speaker 1: was gone. I don't think we found it.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, it was just it's just yeah,
Speaker 2: it costs like four dollars, like yeah, But I was
Speaker 2: just like it was just so random and funny. They
Speaker 2: must have been like really.
Speaker 1: Hungry maybe I don't know, or they were really wanting
Speaker 1: to do some baking when they got home. I guess,
Speaker 1: I don't know. All the power to them regardless. So
Speaker 1: the theory the police came up with regarding Richard REESI
Speaker 1: was this now being a burglar that he is. He
Speaker 1: knew the inside of the family home since he had
Speaker 1: worked there previously. Yeah, he targeted them. He went there
Speaker 1: and broke in to steal from them again. And when
Speaker 1: he realized that Elizabeth had woken up and seen him,
Speaker 1: he knew that he would be recognized by her as
Speaker 1: he had been there previously. She knew who he was,
Speaker 1: and he didn't want to get caught, so he took
Speaker 1: the witness out of the equation.
Speaker 2: Oh, like they're thinking he was in there to steal
Speaker 2: that night and then didn't plan to take Elizabeth, but
Speaker 2: then just took her.
Speaker 1: They thought he went in to do some burglary stuff,
Speaker 1: stealing things, but Elizabeth saw him come in, so he
Speaker 1: left with Elizabeth thinking that she would turn him in.
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know. I don't know if I really
Speaker 2: that theory seems interesting to me.
Speaker 1: So that's the police's current theory.
Speaker 2: Because like, he wouldn't have been trying to steal shit
Speaker 2: from the kids' rooms, don't. Like, I don't think that
Speaker 2: she would have saw him. That's just my opinion, but
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't quite line up with Mary.
Speaker 2: Catherine's exactly because they were both in bed sleeping, it
Speaker 2: seemed like exactly, and the person breaking in woke her
Speaker 2: up right yep, according to the little sister.
Speaker 1: According to the little girl, yes so. Richard, while he
Speaker 1: in custody, endured tough questioning from the authorities, and he
Speaker 1: would admit to previously stealing from the Smart Home while
Speaker 1: he was there, and he admitted to hearing about Elizabeth's
Speaker 1: kidnapping on the news, but he was adamant that he
Speaker 1: had absolutely nothing to do with her disappearance. Now, I
Speaker 1: wasn't able to find full video of his interrogation, but
Speaker 1: there are some clips and some documentaries that I watched,
Speaker 1: and he's getting quite angry at the police, like why
Speaker 1: aren't you, like, why are you guys targeting me? Why
Speaker 1: aren't you looking at someone else? Like someone's out there
Speaker 1: with her, Like what the fuck are you doing? Like
Speaker 1: he's very adamant he has nothing to do with it,
Speaker 1: getting very upset. Now though he wasn't admitting anything to
Speaker 1: the FBI and being very adamant that he didn't do it,
Speaker 1: authorities were certain that they did have their guy, and
Speaker 1: it was only a matter of time until they were
Speaker 1: able to prove it. At least that's what they thought. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: his face was getting plastered all over the news, and
Speaker 1: the Smart family knew that he was now suspect number one.
Speaker 1: And when I say Smart Family, I also mean Mary Catherine,
Speaker 1: who was watching the news and saw his face on TV.
Speaker 1: And she was very confused when she saw his face
Speaker 1: on TV because she turned to her dad and said,
Speaker 1: it wasn't him. Why do they have him.
Speaker 2: Oh geez, I just hate that because then it's like
Speaker 2: they almost lose their oomph to try to find someone
Speaker 2: because they think they have it, like in the bag,
Speaker 2: you know exactly.
Speaker 1: I just hate that, And that's definitely what happens.
Speaker 2: Yes, case great, So.
Speaker 1: The investigation continued, and now, on July twenty fourth, something
Speaker 1: else happened that would put everyone on edge just a
Speaker 1: little bit more. Elizabeth's cousin heard a loud bang one
Speaker 1: night outside her bedroom window while she slept, and she
Speaker 1: woke up to a knife cutting through the screen in
Speaker 1: her bedroom window. Now, of course, she screamed, called her
Speaker 1: parents and the individual whoever it was right away. The
Speaker 1: cops recalled, and thankfully everyone was fine. But outside her
Speaker 1: bedroom police found the cut screen and two chairs placed
Speaker 1: back to back just like it had been outside Elizabeth's room.
Speaker 2: And this is what is the guy? Who was the
Speaker 2: other guy? Brent?
Speaker 1: Brent, No, that was the milkman identified that guy. That
Speaker 1: guy's already who's.
Speaker 2: The other woman?
Speaker 1: Richard?
Speaker 2: Reci Okay, So, and this Richard guy's in jail right now,
Speaker 2: probably right when that happened.
Speaker 1: It all happened while Richard is still in custody. So
Speaker 1: who did this? Then now the cops said they don't
Speaker 1: know who did it. It could have been just kids
Speaker 1: playing now copycat of some sort. No so, but there's
Speaker 1: definitely some turbulence around that. So time kept ticking and
Speaker 1: the authorities kept trying to prove their theory that Richard
Speaker 1: was one responsible and kept pressuring him to admit it,
Speaker 1: and time again he denied having anything to do with it.
Speaker 1: In fact, he denied it until the day he died.
Speaker 1: On August thirtieth, two thousand and two, two months after
Speaker 1: Elizabeth's disappearance. He died of a brain hemorrhage from an
Speaker 1: aneurysm while still in police custody.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Yes, arguably from the stress that the police were putting
Speaker 1: him through. Yike.
Speaker 2: Okay, this is just getting to be a next level. Yes,
Speaker 2: and that's awful.
Speaker 1: Richard's case is that's a whole other case. There's a
Speaker 1: legal thing all about that.
Speaker 2: But do we know we get to know if he dies,
Speaker 2: if he did do it or not, Like I'm assuming
Speaker 2: he didn't do it.
Speaker 1: Right, We get to know if he did it or not.
Speaker 2: Yes, Okay, because in my head I'm thinking he didn't
Speaker 2: do it. So I'm very curious to know what the fuck.
Speaker 1: Okay, So that's your gut that Richard did not do it? Yes, correct, Okay,
Speaker 1: So what do you what's your running theory currently?
Speaker 2: Just that Richard didn't do it.
Speaker 1: That Richard didn't do it, Okay.
Speaker 2: I know I don't have well, because he also wasn't
Speaker 2: known to the family.
Speaker 1: Correct Richard, Yes, he was, he was the contractor.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, right, Okay, I'm getting all these Oh no,
Speaker 2: I don't think he did because I think that that
Speaker 2: little girl, like just being Mary, being so confused seeing
Speaker 2: him and stuff. I don't think he did it, Okay,
Speaker 2: But I don't have any other theories of who did it.
Speaker 1: But I don't think it was That's fine. We've only
Speaker 1: introduced two suspects so far. The one suspect who the
Speaker 1: police quickly ruled out that was identified by the milkman
Speaker 1: as being a suspicious individual.
Speaker 2: In neighborhood, and then the parents doing it.
Speaker 1: And the parents himself, sorry, right, and Richard Reesi, who
Speaker 1: has now passed away with his custody.
Speaker 2: Okay, if he didn't do it, that's so sad.
Speaker 1: Well. For many reasons, the passing of Richard would mean
Speaker 1: that the story would end here with Richard's passing. How
Speaker 1: would they find out what happened where Elizabeth was? How
Speaker 1: would they find out what he did? They wouldn't be
Speaker 1: able to get a confession, you know, all those sort
Speaker 1: of questions would now be unanswered for the family, though
Speaker 1: they weren't convinced it was him, especially Mary Catherine. One
Speaker 1: day in October, Mary Catherine approached her dad and she said, Dad,
Speaker 1: I know who it is. I know who took Elizabeth.
Speaker 2: My gosh, yeah, this is like and that's two months later, yeah, right, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: So she was reading a book when suddenly it came
Speaker 1: flooding back to her, like the same way when you know,
Speaker 1: like you're having a conversation with someone, you forget a
Speaker 1: piece of information, you know, name of a TV show,
Speaker 1: singer or something. Yeah, then like, I don't know, a
Speaker 1: little while later, a couple days later, you have that
Speaker 1: like Eureka moment where it just, for whatever reason, pops
Speaker 1: into your mind. Same thing. She suddenly remembered the name.
Speaker 1: She looked up her dad and she said, Emmanuel. Gosh,
Speaker 1: the man's name is Emmanuel. Now it took her dad
Speaker 1: a moment to really process this and think back to
Speaker 1: who Emmanuel was. Yah, but months prior, Emmanuel was a
Speaker 1: homeless religious or homeless sorry, homeless religious there we go,
Speaker 1: preacher man who had been to their house before Lois.
Speaker 1: Their mother had given some pocket money and invited him
Speaker 1: back to their place to do some renovation work, as
Speaker 1: he was a handyman pert time work. Yep, Okay, so
Speaker 1: Mary Catherine would have only met this man for a
Speaker 1: couple minutes at most, and somehow she recalled voice.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Investigators, though, were still pursuing the idea of Richard
Speaker 1: holy shit, and they were trying to prove that he
Speaker 1: was the one involved, and mostly brushed off the idea
Speaker 1: of this little girl suddenly remembering some homeless man and
Speaker 1: pulling the name out of thin air.
Speaker 2: Okay, this is starting to make me a little angry,
Speaker 2: but okay, rightfully, so well, yeah, and then I'm just
Speaker 2: so curious what this dad does, Like he's going to
Speaker 2: take matters in his own hands here. I feel like
Speaker 2: I would be.
Speaker 1: Pretty much We're almost there, give me one sec but yeah.
Speaker 1: Instead of following the evidence, they were stuck on trying
Speaker 1: to make this whole Richard Guifil and the family. However,
Speaker 1: after months, months so this is now months later after
Speaker 1: she identified this namest, so months of them not following
Speaker 1: this lead, the family went to the new source on
Speaker 1: their own and released a sketch and a description of
Speaker 1: the individual, and they begged for the public's help and
Speaker 1: said this immanual guy is who we're looking for.
Speaker 2: Then they did this on their own without the police.
Speaker 1: Correct However, the sketch wouldn't help. The man by the
Speaker 1: name of Manuel was no longer clean cut and shaven.
Speaker 1: He was shaggy, longer hair and a beard, which we
Speaker 1: would find out later. But luckily, the description of a preaching,
Speaker 1: homeless wanderer who went by the name of Emmanuel and
Speaker 1: did handiwork on the side would catch the attention of
Speaker 1: a very key individual, Emmanuel's sister. She identified Emmanuel as
Speaker 1: her brother and by it the name of David, Sorry, Brian,
Speaker 1: David Mitchell.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yep, Now a bit on Brian. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: talk about him a whole lot, But Brian was a
Speaker 1: boy who grew up in a strict religious household and
Speaker 1: had some sexual perversions about him at a very young
Speaker 1: age and would be carried through to his adult years,
Speaker 1: along with to varying degrees of substance abuse now in counseling.
Speaker 1: Later on in his life, Brian would meet and marry
Speaker 1: a woman by the name of Wanda Berez. Together, the
Speaker 1: two of them were extremely religious, and Brian found, you know,
Speaker 1: the church's teachings weren't quite to his liking, so he
Speaker 1: began perceiving himself as a savior and gave himself the
Speaker 1: title of like almost a deity, like he's kind of
Speaker 1: like a Jesus sort of individual, and gave him the
Speaker 1: right to take multiple wives. As such, him and his
Speaker 1: wife would dress in a very cult like fashion, in
Speaker 1: long white robes and Wanda wearing a Burca like veil
Speaker 1: over her face. The family and now authorities who are
Speaker 1: pretty much publicly forced to look after and investigate the
Speaker 1: name of this Emmanuel individual.
Speaker 2: Good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And from here on out, for Emmanuel, I'm going
Speaker 1: to actually refer to him as his real name, Brian,
Speaker 1: because I don't want to dignify him with his chosen
Speaker 1: deity name. That's fair, so Brian. Anyways, a man dressed
Speaker 1: in white robes or some described dressed like Jesus is
Speaker 1: a fairly hard to miss individual when they're walking aroudtown. Right.
Speaker 1: So as everyone began to start the investigation, it was
Speaker 1: pretty easy to find eyewitness reports on seeing this individual
Speaker 1: and he and popping up all over the place. Here
Speaker 1: we seen at cafes, at restaurants, walking down the streets,
Speaker 1: showing up at random house parties, trying to preach to
Speaker 1: the people there, all while being accompanied by two women
Speaker 1: in white robes and veils.
Speaker 2: Okay, no, I just had a terrible thought.
Speaker 1: What's that?
Speaker 2: Did he literally take this little girl to be his wife? Like?
Speaker 2: This is just disgusting. I don't know if I want
Speaker 2: to listen anymore. This is so brutal.
Speaker 1: Hey spoiler alert, Yes.
Speaker 2: Shit, I'm sorry, but like, oh no, okay, ah, you're good. Yeah,
Speaker 2: this is just exactly what I did not think was
Speaker 2: happening or going to happen.
Speaker 1: It's exactly what is happening.
Speaker 2: Though, Okay. Like, honestly, if I could have thought of
Speaker 2: the most wildest theory in my fucking head, it would
Speaker 2: not have been this one. No, Like, I just don't
Speaker 2: think I would have thought that she'd be stolen to
Speaker 2: become some weird person's wife.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, in all honesty, any normal right person
Speaker 1: in their right mind would not do that, so I
Speaker 1: would not thought of someone doing that would be as
Speaker 1: far fetched as you could think.
Speaker 2: Kay. And also another super side one, it's always like
Speaker 2: wild to me to think when I, like a family member,
Speaker 2: like a sibling or something, turns someone in. Hey, what
Speaker 2: do you mean, like the sister? Oh?
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, yeah, I was thinking Mary Catherine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, like the sister. You know, oh, this
Speaker 2: could be my brother, Like yeah, I don't know. I
Speaker 2: feel like my sister would have to do some really
Speaker 2: crazy shit for me to end up turning her in.
Speaker 2: You're welcome.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean if your sibling kidnapped a teenage.
Speaker 2: Child to be their wife, Yeah, that would probably be something.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, you break the fucking law to a severe
Speaker 1: degree where it's going to hurt another individual. Yeah, you're
Speaker 1: probably gonna get snitched.
Speaker 2: On just saying yeah, well, especially a child.
Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't turn nobody in. Snitches get stitches.
Speaker 1: So fuck that, my lips are sealed. Loose slips sink ships.
Speaker 1: Oh fuck that?
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Wow.
Speaker 1: So anyways, that little ranticide. As it turns out, though,
Speaker 1: days after all this went public, you know, the name,
Speaker 1: the sketch everything, The San Diego Police department actually had
Speaker 1: Brian in custody for breaking into a church, and in
Speaker 1: three days he was in the system and he was
Speaker 1: in court for breaking in and causing damage to the
Speaker 1: church window. He was charged with the damages and released
Speaker 1: as San Diego was not yet aware that he was
Speaker 1: a wanted man in Salt Lake.
Speaker 2: Shit, of course just.
Speaker 1: Slipped through their fingers.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, luckily, after the incident in San Diego, Brian thought
Speaker 1: it was, you know, an absolutely great idea to travel
Speaker 1: back to Salt Lake City with his two though we
Speaker 1: identified to have it written here unidentified wives. But once
Speaker 1: they got off the bus back in Salt Lake, they
Speaker 1: were quickly recognized from all the publicity surrounding the case.
Speaker 2: And they probably didn't know no. Brian didn't know no.
Speaker 1: So the kid at the citizen who quickly recognized them,
Speaker 1: called authorities and let them know exactly where they were. Yes,
Speaker 1: very soon cops arrived on the scene and approached the
Speaker 1: three individuals, one of them, a veiled woman, was wearing
Speaker 1: a very obvious disguise, a gray wig and sunglasses. Brian
Speaker 1: presented false names for all three of them, but the
Speaker 1: police knew right away it was a lie, and they
Speaker 1: knew they had found Elizabeth, in fact, quite literally holding
Speaker 1: up a picture beside her face saying, this is you.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Now, it wasn't a fantastical moment like you would think
Speaker 1: where Elizabeth ran to the cops arms to safety. No
Speaker 1: one was hurt, mind you, there wasn't a fight put
Speaker 1: up or anything like that.
Speaker 2: That's serious trauma.
Speaker 1: She actually initially denied her identity, saying I know who
Speaker 1: you think I am, and I'm not that girl.
Speaker 2: Really, hey, really? And how long at this point had
Speaker 2: she been missing from her family?
Speaker 1: I believe nine months?
Speaker 2: Okay, that is quite a long time.
Speaker 1: However, once alone with police, she broke down and admitted
Speaker 1: who she was, and she was very concerned for her
Speaker 1: captor's safety as well.
Speaker 2: Now, so this frigging nasty motherfucker has like just brainwashed
Speaker 2: the shit out of her.
Speaker 1: I feel like pretty much now Elizabeth is the only
Speaker 1: one who can really attest to why she did this.
Speaker 1: But I do want to mention a certain condition that
Speaker 1: very well could be what is at play here. It's
Speaker 1: called Stockholm syndrome. This is a coping mechanism that captives
Speaker 1: or abuse victims eventually develop over time. They began to
Speaker 1: establish positive feelings towards their captor or abuser, which could
Speaker 1: very well be why Elizabeth was concerned for their well
Speaker 1: being and acted this way.
Speaker 2: Well, and she's very young, she depended on this person
Speaker 2: for nine months, right.
Speaker 1: Exactly, so, regardless of regardless, sorry, Elizabeth was safe and
Speaker 1: she was reunited with her family. She was home, happy
Speaker 1: and began to share her story. What she told everyone
Speaker 1: was this. She was held at knife point that night
Speaker 1: by Brian. He took her up the mountain behind her
Speaker 1: family's home, where they walked several miles and crested over
Speaker 1: the peak and back down the other side. They came
Speaker 1: to a small grove of trees where Brian had been
Speaker 1: living with his wife Wanda. They had cleared a small
Speaker 1: spot and did some structure work with dirt and little logs,
Speaker 1: and there was a tent sitting there on that spot. There.
Speaker 1: Inside the tent, she was forced to remove her pajamas
Speaker 1: and bathed with a sponge in a kind of cleansing
Speaker 1: ceremony type thing. Then she was forced to don the
Speaker 1: white robes. After that, she was then presented to Brian,
Speaker 1: where he began to explain to her that they are
Speaker 1: now married and she is his wife. Oh no, and
Speaker 1: it was time to consummate their marriage.
Speaker 2: Oh, it gets worse, It just keeps getting worse.
Speaker 1: So there that night, in that tent, she was sexually
Speaker 1: assaulted by Brian.
Speaker 2: Gosh, that's freaking disgusting.
Speaker 1: Yes, And the whole time she was being threatened, and
Speaker 1: she had gone to say that she had wished for
Speaker 1: it to all to end. In that moment she had
Speaker 1: sympathized with other victims who weren't suffering. She kind of
Speaker 1: wished she wasn't suffering too, which is extremely sad to hear.
Speaker 1: But after that moment, when she was having those thoughts,
Speaker 1: she made a decision. She kind of flipped. She said
Speaker 1: that she would do anything it took to stay alive,
Speaker 1: even if it meant doing what she was told and
Speaker 1: outliving her captors in the end.
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
Speaker 1: Yes, so she was prepared, looking very for she was
Speaker 1: prepared to be a long time huh.
Speaker 2: And to think though, this is all because her mom
Speaker 2: and like family were being super kind to someone exactly,
Speaker 2: So this is sometimes why the world is full of assholes. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because this makes me feel like I would never want
Speaker 2: to be bring someone into my house to help them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, who can you trust? Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: It took several years for a court case to occur,
Speaker 1: as it was a debate over the competency of Brian
Speaker 1: and Wanda, whether it was an act of legitimate mental
Speaker 1: issues or they were being what's the best way to
Speaker 1: put this, they were keeping up an appearance in front
Speaker 1: of the judge, making themselves seem mentally ill. Is in question,
Speaker 1: sorry Brian and Wanda. Yes, once they were in custody.
Speaker 1: So it took several years before a court case it
Speaker 1: occurred because of their mental capacity or what could have been. So,
Speaker 1: whether it was an act or legitimate now, eventually they
Speaker 1: would find themselves in court regardless. It was in two
Speaker 1: thousand and nine, and in October of two thousand and nine,
Speaker 1: Elizabeth would bravely take the stand against their captors.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: The then twenty one year old Elizabeth would go on
Speaker 1: to describe what she had happened to her, and she
Speaker 1: would begin to describe Brian as quote smart, articulate, evil, wicked, manipulative, sneaky, slimy, selfish, greedy,
Speaker 1: not spiritual, not religious, and not close to God.
Speaker 2: So some powerful descriptions.
Speaker 1: Yes, this right here is where I want to go
Speaker 1: on and name Elizabeth our badass of the day.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, we haven't had one for a while, but
Speaker 2: she seems like, yes, really badass. Unbelievable.
Speaker 1: So in the court, Wanda Burrez would eventually plead guilty
Speaker 1: to her role in kidnapping and was sentenced to fifteen
Speaker 1: years in prison, where she has now been since released.
Speaker 2: So she's in on this. She was in on this.
Speaker 1: She was Brian's other wife. Yes, she took part in.
Speaker 2: This, I mean, but did she willingly take part or
Speaker 2: was she just following Brian's orders?
Speaker 1: Okay, that's kind of up for debate too. I'm sure
Speaker 1: she had some part in it. She didn't turn anyone in,
Speaker 1: she didn't say anything, she didn't fight like you know.
Speaker 2: She could have potentially stopped it.
Speaker 1: Yes. So now, as for Brian, his defense in court
Speaker 1: acknowledged that he was indeed responsible for the crimes he
Speaker 1: was being accused of, but they argued he was legally
Speaker 1: insane at the time of the crimes, and because of this,
Speaker 1: they stated that he should therefore be found not guilty
Speaker 1: by reason of insanity. The defense would reject this idea
Speaker 1: on December eleventh, in twenty ten, when the jury found
Speaker 1: him guilty of kidnapping and transporting a minor across state
Speaker 1: lines with intent to engage in sexual activity. Thank goodness,
Speaker 1: Brian David Mitchell was sentenced to life in prison without
Speaker 1: the possibility of parole, and he is currently serving a
Speaker 1: sentence at a high security federal prison in Indiana.
Speaker 2: Good good. I was so worry that something like that
Speaker 2: was not going to end up happening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he is behind bars for life now that
Speaker 1: being said, Elizabeth's story isn't over. In fact, at the
Speaker 1: age of third thirty four right now, I would say
Speaker 1: it's probably just begun. She's gone through to do some
Speaker 1: incredible things in her life already, including public speaking on
Speaker 1: many amazing platforms such as ted X.
Speaker 2: Nice.
Speaker 1: But I don't think I can put it into any
Speaker 1: better words than directly from the source, taken right from
Speaker 1: Elizabeth's website, elizabethsmart dot com. I believe it is. Here
Speaker 1: is what it has to say about Elizabeth. Through this
Speaker 1: traumatic experience, Elizabeth has become an advocate for change related
Speaker 1: to child abduction, recovery programs and national legislation. Elizabeths triumphantly
Speaker 1: testified before her captors and the world about the very
Speaker 1: private nightmare she suffered during her abduction, which led to conviction.
Speaker 1: The founder of Elizabeth's Smart Foundation, Elizabeth has also helped
Speaker 1: promote the National Amber Alert, the Adam Walsh Child Protection
Speaker 1: and Safety Act, and other legislation to help prevent abductions.
Speaker 1: Elizabeth attended Brigham Young University studying music as a harp
Speaker 1: performance major. She married her husband, Matthew, in twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: and they now have two beautiful children. Elizabeth's example is
Speaker 1: a daily demonstration that there really is life after tragedy.
Speaker 1: That's awesome, that is wow credible, And I can't imagine
Speaker 1: the horrors as she went through that night and the
Speaker 1: following nine months.
Speaker 2: That is a very long time. But it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: all these survive okays, It's like they make a choice,
Speaker 2: right they do.
Speaker 1: You're very much so, right. Yeah, there's usually a moment
Speaker 1: when they when they're talking about it, they say they're
Speaker 1: not giving up. They can remember that distinct moment where
Speaker 1: it's like it's not ending here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fight or flight, I know. And like it's
Speaker 2: like anyone can be making a choice like that every day,
Speaker 2: and it's just that's just powerful. That just makes you
Speaker 2: just rethink things so many things.
Speaker 1: Well, like you say every day, it could be something
Speaker 1: as simple as maybe weight loss. Maybe you're struggling and
Speaker 1: you should put down that bag of chips. I know,
Speaker 1: heaven forbid, I should be doing that the Tim Tams.
Speaker 1: I just ate a bunch of Tim Tam cookies before this.
Speaker 1: Or it could be quitting smoking, or it could be
Speaker 1: heaven forbid, you're in a situation where you need to
Speaker 1: leave an abusive relationship.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, addiction of sorts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not always that easy, it's not understan. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but there is that moment where you have to decide
Speaker 1: if you're going to fight for yourself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, it's always there's always this this definitive
Speaker 2: moment and it's just like that is just so powerful
Speaker 2: that they step back and we're just like, I'm going
Speaker 2: to live kind of thing. And she did, which is amazing,
Speaker 2: amazing person.
Speaker 1: There are a multitude of documentaries, movies, and books all
Speaker 1: written about Elizabeth's story. And there is one little tiny
Speaker 1: detail I want to add to this. I wasn't quite
Speaker 1: sure where to put it in, but there was a
Speaker 1: situation before Brian was actually identified as an individual in question,
Speaker 1: as a suspect where a police officer had actually approached
Speaker 1: them for aggressive panhandling. I believe it was, and Brian
Speaker 1: again produced false names for all three of them. Wearing
Speaker 1: a veil. The officer wasn't able to really identify them.
Speaker 1: They don't have IDs on them, especially considering, you know,
Speaker 1: the panhandling individuals inside of the street. But he said
Speaker 1: there was some small suspicion that, you know, this could
Speaker 1: have been someone that we're looking for. But they have
Speaker 1: no right to remove a veil or any sort of
Speaker 1: questioning like that. They had, no, no, nothing.
Speaker 2: They were in a that's a very tough position be in.
Speaker 1: And Elizabeth actually recounts that incident. She said, it was
Speaker 1: just like her hope was walking away when the police
Speaker 1: officer left.
Speaker 2: Oh no, that makes my eyes well, holy heck, that's.
Speaker 1: So Thankfully it came back around and she was found,
Speaker 1: and she was found relatively unharmed.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it's honestly like her family didn't give up,
Speaker 2: which is also incredible. Yeah, so I've heard her name,
Speaker 2: but I have not heard the story.
Speaker 1: So well, now you have. It's a powerful.
Speaker 2: Story, very much so.
Speaker 1: So, Elizabeth. I don't know if you can listen to
Speaker 1: our podcast. But if you ever do, just know you're
Speaker 1: an absolute badass.
Speaker 2: Unbelievable. Yeah, well done, like amazing.
Speaker 1: Cheers, cheers for a badass of the day, and of
Speaker 1: course makes you checks out. On all our platforms Instagram, Facebook, Patreon,
Speaker 1: you can sign up for some exclusive content. We have Twitter,
Speaker 1: we have read it, we have our website. We got lots,
Speaker 1: we got it all. We appreciate your support one way
Speaker 1: or the other. We appreciate you being here and of course,
Speaker 1: as always, make sure well done, make sure ye stay wicked.
Speaker 2: I threw it back to you.
Speaker 1: That was that was different.
Speaker 2: H