Speaker 1: What is up, fellow sickos, I am Dama Valley coming
at you with another twenty twenty five twenty six NBA
season look ahead. We are onto the Cleveland Cavaliers, which
means we get to speak with friend of the show
doing this. I think for the fifth year he's reached
his half decade mark with the look Ahead. He is
the co host of the wildly popular, insanely entertaining Chase
Down podcast, Mister Justin Rowan, and I'm gonna pronounce your
Twitter hander Twitter handle correctly. I know it's not off
to a good start this time. Follow him on all
the social media machines, basically at Cavesanada.
Speaker 2: Oh, Calves Anada, you gotta go Canada.
Speaker 1: Can't do I can't you know, Calves Adada.
Speaker 2: This is this is my favorite bit because it means
that you have to have me back for year six,
and it's just going to keep the cycle going. You're
gonna have another swing at it. It just I hope
you never get it right. I hope I get to
keep coming on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're after your ear. What's the chance that I
get it right in year six? I feel like we're
still sub fifty.
Speaker 2: You know, your memory is kind of like mine. I
feel like you're going to forget all the notes. You're
not going to listen back next year. You're going to
go in just going off of vibes. But yeah, you
slap the caves in Canada. That's how you get there.
Speaker 1: Calves Addeda, go follow him across social media machines. He
is great. Him and Carter. Anyone who listens to this podcast,
I shout out that podcast all the time, one of
my favorite listens. You guys do fantastic work. And now
I'm excited. I was on your show the other day,
so go check that out you haven't already, And now
I get to pick your brain. I was telling you
before we got started, I was having trouble not asking
you guys questions. Well, I was guessing about the caves
while we're doing something about the East. So now I
get to ask those questions. I wanted to start here.
What do you make of how last season ended? Trying
to separate it from you look at that Pacer series,
the injuries piling up, how some of their other postseason
series have ended, but then also trying to measure it
through the lens of okay, like this is year three
of this core together. What do you take away from
that and things that you either want to see differently
or things that might have concerned you.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be disrespectful to the Indiana Pacers.
What they went on to do after beating the Calves,
I think opened my eyes to just how good that
team was. And not that I didn't recognize that plane
against them, but you know, that was a team that
really understood its identity and found a way to play
and be more than the sum of its parts. I
think that's still something that the Calves are trying to
figure out, is how to be better, be more than
the some of their parts, particularly when it comes to
the postseason. I feel like even with the injuries that
the Calves suffered for the most part in that series
against the Pacers, I think there's still a world where
they could have won, right Like you know that that
Halliburn game winner sucked Calves win that game obviously, if
there isn't either of those two lane violations, both of
theme Nie Smith and the Halliburn one that were both
in the two minute report, you know, I thought the
Nie Myth one was a little egregious since he was
already at the free throw a line when Pascal Siakam
had the ball in his hands still. But you know,
little things like that like that, the margins were really
thin within that series. But I think the injuries basically
leveled the playing field to the point where some of
the Cavs bad habits got exposed. And I think some
of those habits didn't come back to bite them in
the regular season because they were just able to out
talent a lot of the teams that they were dealing with.
One of the main things though, that you know, I
think you saw in the regular season and then really
in that playoff series was when things got tight, when
when the game was in the clutch, When when it was,
you know, the last five minutes of a close game,
they'd go away from Evan Mobley. His usage drops from
twenty three percent on the season down to twelve percent
in clutch situations. That's not going to cut it. You
were asking too much of your smaller backcourt to initiate
too much of the offense, and you become too predictable
when that happens. So I think some of the bad
habits got illuminated kind of with the injuries that they
had and stuff like that. Like, obviously, the injuries suck,
and that's something that's probably a concern moving forward. But
I do think some of the growing pains and things
that they had to go through got exposed in that series.
And even if they were healthy, I think okay, s
would have absolutely exposed that because they were able to
do the same types of things defensively, just with much
better defensive personnel.
Speaker 1: I want to get back to the mobile things. I
actually have eleven point nine percent usage in those moments
in my notes. But what I really want to ask
you is, so the Cavs go into this offseason, we
know kind of the chorus set at that point, no flexibility.
I think the question was how far into the second
apron where they we willing to go? And as of
right now, they are twenty million dollars into their second apron,
and that's something you tip your cap to. But just
looking at the lack of resources they had, the lack
of flexibility and then what they ultimately did a coro
Jerome out Lonzo in Sam Merrill's back, you have Larry
nance Junior, nice little reunion there. What have you kind
of thought of? How did you feel about their offseason
and general.
Speaker 2: I'm mostly pleased with it. You know, I thought that
they were going to be able to retain Ti Jerome.
You know, there has kind of been national folks that
have alluded to, hey, you know, maybe you know there
was miscommunication there or Tie kind of presented that he
had a different kind of offer and that caused the
Cavs to go a different direction. I thought that there
was the ability to bring back both he and Sam Maryril.
But the interesting thing when you think about having both
Sam Merril and Ti Jerome on the team is Ti
Jerome would be out there anytime when of Darius or
Donovan was off the court, right Like, You're always going
to have him there, So you have multiple ball handlers. Well,
sam Merrill deserved a lot of minutes. So if Sam
Merrill's going to play, and you're always going to have
at least two of Garland, Mitchell and Jerome out there,
that means six four. Sam Merrill's playing small ford, and
he played a ton of small ford. And when you're
already you know, giving up some height in the back court,
you're not going to change how it feels to play
against you. If you're not kind of changing up the
personnel around them, And that was one of my takeaways
at the end of the season was there might be
a decision that they have to make between Ti Jerome
and Sam Merril. I probably would have leaned tied to
some extent, But at the same time, Ti Jerome was
the weakest defender out of the bunch, Like even though
he's you know, six four, six five, he was the
weakest defender of the group. They used Darius Garland as
their point of attack defender like all the time because
he's the stronger defender out of at least in the
regular season, out of Mitchell, Jerome and Merrill. So I
think what they did was they've kind of done moves
to make themselves feel different to play against them. And
if you can't change up the core, you need to
change up the guys out there around them. And when
you have you know, six seven Lonzo Ball out there
playing as kind of in that Tai Jerome role, now
it doesn't matter that Sam Merril's out there because he
can functionally be the shooting guard while Lonzo Ball is
able to defend some of those longer threes.
Speaker 1: You know, that's an interesting I guess I think about
it that way. I viewed it as they decided to
pivot to Lonzo almost then a Ti Jerome, and that
they like the short terminus of the contract more. I
still think I might have if it was a Meryl
or Jerome discussion, I might have picked Meryl just because
just the theory of this team, their depth is so important.
But like Ti Jerome shouldn't be on the floor when
it matters as much, and there's a chance that like,
and maybe I'm just too pilled from Okay, sam Merrel
did play him three last year, and if you're healthier,
ideally not gonna see that happen. But I just don't
like if it was the choice between them, I think
I value what sam Merrill does more for this team.
And he's also you know, you guys have mentioned this
in the chase down. I think this has kind of
become like known among Sickos. Is just that he'll fight
on defense too, and as you said, Jerome was the
weaker defender and for this team, that aside from Mobile
and Allen, doesn't feel like it has like, yeah, Dean
Wade has his moments, DeAndre Hunter has his moments. Doesn't
just have that like stopper on the perimeter, per se,
Like I appreciate what Sam Merrill can do, but yeah,
I guess I really hadn't thought of it in the
Jerome versus Meryl terms.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, Sam Merrill when you look at
like the basketball index tracking data and stuff like that,
like he does a really good job of screen navigation,
Like he's in the right positions. He'll get burned every
now and then in isolation, but he does a good job.
And I just think, you know, when you have Lonzo
Ball out there as a potential option, it just changes
how it feels to play against you, right, And I
think one of the things that kind of stuck with
me is, all right, you're playing the Indiana Pacers. Darius
is literally on one foot, you know, trying to tough
it out. He can't really move, so we have him
moved off ball. Donovan Mitchell's playing through a calf strain,
so his movement's a little limited. And your one healthy guard,
Ti Jerome can't bring the ball up over half court
without getting an eight second violation against pressure. Like we
kind of needed him to step up in that moment.
So it's kind of understandable that they might go a
different direction. And you know why I initially leaned Ti
Jerome compared to you know, sam Merril was I want
to have playmaking on the court. I think that's one
of the main takeaways when I look at the last
you know, five to six NBA champions, is they have
guys that can create at every single position. Even if
they can't be primary initiators, have a lot of secondary guys,
right like you have guys that when the ball swings
and the defense is off balance, they can make something happen.
And you know, I think the Cavs are bringing in
guys that can do that kind of stuff. Larry Nance
junior high IQ player, Lonzo Ball high IQ player. So
if sam Merril's going to be that kind of gravity
guy moving off of all these other high IQ players,
I think there's something to that. And the flip side
is it opens up an opportunity for someone like Jalen Tyson,
who has both played on and off ball and has
shown some real chops as a playmaker. Gives him an
opportunity to you know, play a more prominent role and
to kind of be that playmaker with some size that
you know, really gets in there and gets a lot
of rebounds and can buy you some extra possessions. Cavs
need that. They if you can't change you know, it's
going to be my mantra of the Aussie And if
you can't change the core, you have to change how
it feels to play against them, and the only way
you can do that is by changing the rest of
the rotation.
Speaker 1: My initial concern with that was even getting rid of
Tide Jerome and I mentioned this when we talk the
other day, that it does feel like they might have
guys who can catch and make quick decisions if you
need someone to initiate half court offense aside from Garland,
aside for Mitchell, it felt like Jerome would be better.
Then you get into well, if you're banking on mobile improvement,
maybe that's not as big of a deal. Perhaps they're
a little bit light there, but it does seem like
you might believe that maybe you can get some of
that out of a sophomore jail and Tyson this year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe a little bit. I don't want to rely
on it too much, Like realistically speaking, we're talking about
him probably as a tenth or eleventh man, right, Like
it's going to depend on how Kenny Atkinson chooses to
play it basically, like is Dean Wade going to be
that guy or is it going to be Jalen Tyson.
I do think you're going to have to kind of
rely on a lot of secondary playmaking. Like I like
Lonzo as a playmaker. He's not a lead ball handler
like you know he used to be with the Laker.
It's like that's not really his role. But you know,
if you're kind of replacing that playmaking in the aggregating
and implementing an offense that isn't heliocentric at all, where
it's almost kind of like a Boston Celtics approach where
if we put enough secondary playmakers on the court, and
you know, we we have confidence in our offensive scheme,
maybe we're going to be able to generate offense consistently enough.
And I certainly have some playmaking questions, particularly early in
the season. Darius Garland is going to miss time. You
look at them historically, the draw like they just haven't
been able to have a top ten offense without Garland
on the court. Like last season they went from they
should trade him obviously, yeah, obviously, you know they had
the best offense in NBA history with Garland on the court,
and I think it was like thirteenth in the league
with him off And that's not just inflated by you know,
Donovan Mitchell being there. You look at the lineups of
just Garland without Mitchell got even better. I think it
was like a one to twenty five offensive rating.
Speaker 1: I had him. I don't know if I finished with him,
but I had Garland ahead of Donovan Mitchell when I did.
I mean, all three of the Cavs made it all
NBA teams it doesn't, but I had him ahead of
Donovan Mitchell. And that was just a huge part of
the reason why I was because the way he was
driving offense for everybody else.
Speaker 2: Garland drives the offense more than any player on the team.
Mobley drives the defense more than any player on the team.
But when we were kind of doing like our fake
goal NBA teams, I still gave the nod to Donovan
because he's the leading play finisher. And I also just
I really value the maturity, Like it's one of the
cool things about him that he was drafted to a
fifty win team. He like out of the gate was
a great score. You know, he was a star, and
despite all of that, he always kind of looks inward,
right like, it's, Okay, what can I do to get better?
What do we need to do to get over the hump?
And I respect the fact that last season he recognized,
all right, if we're going to get over the hump,
Garland needs to take that step forward. Mobley needs to
take that step forward. So I'm going to take a
little bit of a step back. I'm going to be
off all more, I'm going to be more efficient with
my touches. I just really respect kind of that maturity
and leadership from Mitchell. But you're right like it. If
you're looking at the regular season on court, off court
impact type stuff, you're going to be led to Mobile,
You're going to be led to Garland, right. I think
that's why the dunked on guys both had Mobiley and
Garland ahead of Mitchell on their own.
Speaker 1: Oh they did, Okay, knew I knew they had MOBI. Yeah,
I didn't know. You weren't alone there the so yeah,
and Donovan Mitchell we talked with this lash year. Does
seem like with Cleveland he's gotten better at toggling between
like separate existences, like reading the room and figuring out
what they need. I want to ask you about the
Darius Garland injury though, How big of a deal is that?
Especially it's not even just about even if he was
ready to start the season. We're talking about someone who
is then limited in training camp in preseason. How long
does it take him to find his footing? Is there
any this team has been together the crux of it enough,
but like you are trying to integrate some new players,
including someone like DeAndre Hunter hasn't had a training camp
with this team yet. So how how important is this industry? Uh?
How important is this industry? Justin can you explain this
injury in the sense of maybe it's not even right
off immediately, but now Darius Garland just has all these
things that just add up. It's nothing really chronic. I
guess the big toe is that considered chronic at this point,
But like there's always these yet hit in the face.
It's the eye, it's the toe, And so is it
more about like, well, let's just see him like survive,
like through the playoffs would be nice.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm definitely at the point where I'm like I
can't puff out my chest too much because injuries are
always going to be a concern, right Like, I look,
you're right with Darius, It's not like it's one recurring thing,
right Like, it's not like, okay, it's always a left
calf if issue or something like that, But it's just
it's kind of always something, right Like, he's healthy three
years ago against the Knicks, you know, up and down
playoff series. I think it was better than people realize.
I always like to do the kind of flirting verse
harassment meme with Jalen Brunson because they basically had the
exact same averages. In Garland was more efficient, but he
had that one really bad game at Madison Square Garden.
But yeah, like you know, if we go into this
playoffs and Garland's not healthy again, I think when you're
in the second apron reality like that forces you ask
some tough questions. I think the same thing could be
said of Donovan Mitchell because you look back at like
the last seven years, basically he's always kind of got
something nagging happening with his lower body. Like two years ago,
he wasn't able to finish the series against the Celtics
because of a left calf strain. Against Indy he had
a left calf strain, and you know, looking at that
Game five, even if they would have won that series,
I don't know if he would have been able to
continue playing in the playoffs, Like it might have been
a repeat of the year before. The one time that
he was kind of like fully healthy and didn't have
anything going on with his lower body was the bubble
where there was a break before and you know, we
averaged like fifty points per game. So my big concern
with with Garland missing time isn't about okay, like is
he going to be able to get on the right
page when he gets back and things like that, Like
that's not a concern for me. It's one, is he
going to be healthy in the playoffs? And two, if
he's missing significant time, how do not killed Donovan Mitchell?
How do we keep him healthy? Because even two years
ago when he missed the time with the fractured jaw,
the Cavs had an incredibly light schedule. They played almost
no winning teams. I think they played like ten games
in a month because they had that Paris break right,
so they had some time off on both ends. The
league kind of really took it easy on them, and
by the end of that stretch, Donovan like kind of
had something act up with his knee and they had
to shut him down from the All Star break till
the end of the season. Like it just carrying that
extra load with Garland out there, it obviously had a
bit of a wear and tear effect on him. So
my whole thinking is, all right, we're trying to manage
Alonzo Ball's health so that he's healthy in the playoffs.
We got to keep Mitchell healthy. We're gonna need some
guys to step up here at the start of the season,
you know, depending on how much time Darius is missing.
Speaker 1: On the Lonzo ballfront, there's obviously the injury concerns, and
then keeping him on a minute's cap, what do you
think he'd he does most for this team or how
do you even see them, you know, deploying him.
Speaker 2: I think off ball connective playmaker is going to be
kind of his main role. I think he's going to
be someone that helps them increase the tempo. I think
that's going to be incredibly important in kind of those
second unit minutes. I think, as I said before, being
able to play some smaller lineups with him, like being
able to have Sam Marylyn shooting guard and Lonzo Ball
kind of playing as small forward. I think that that's
going to be something that gives them some juice to
those second line, second unit lineups. The nice thing about
the Cavs when they are fully healthy is you are
able to have one of Garland and Mitchell out there,
one of mobleyan Allen out there, and it really makes
lineup construction easy. I think that's one of the reasons
why they are so good in the regular season is
when you have like no real drop off when you're
going to like your second and third lineups, it's really
really hard for teams to keep up to that for
forty eight minutes. So I think a Lonzo is someone
that really helps when you're staggering Garland and Mitchell, maybe
even someone that you close with, like I wouldn't be
shocked to see them go Darland Mitchell, Lonzo DeAndre Hunter,
and Evan Mobley at times Like there's just a lot
of different things you can do to help kind of
take some pressure off of Garland and Mitchell.
Speaker 1: Evan Mobley time before we get into like what we're
kind of expecting from him. When you look at last year,
which was just to me, easily his best or most
well rounded offensive season. What I don't even want to
say what stood out? What was something maybe that kind
of flew under the radar that he didn't receive enough
credit for doing.
Speaker 2: Man, you know, maybe it's just like that he was
able to check so many boxes because like our debate
last offseason was would you prefer for him to add
a handle or an outside shot? And I was always
team handle. I was like, you know, the handle is
just gonna let him act as so many many different things.
It's going to cause some gravity because defenders aren't going
to be They're not going to lay off him the
same way because he's able to put the ball on
the floor. You don't want someone that big coming at
you with momentum. It's like the Yannis principle, right, Like
nobody treats them like Draymond Green because I'm not going
to give that guy a head of steam. So I
was always team handle. But the fact that he added
the handle and the jump shot is just an insane
like he is a supercomputer, like the processing speed with him.
He's such an intelligent player on both ends of the core.
If you guys want to watch like his defensive highlight
clips focus on how often the Cavs retain possession. Every
single block shot is basically a turnover because he's either
keeping it himself or he's batting it to a teammate,
like he's never throwing it into like the tenth row.
They retain possession and start a fast break on almost
every every emin mobiley block and steal, Like I know,
we use stocks as shorthand they are literally stocks because
they're blocks and steals at the same time, like he is.
The rate with which he's improved, you know, the way
that he's kind of changed the fortunes of the team
is staggering, Like they were a bad defensive team before
they drafted him. As soon as they drafted him, it's
just year after year they're going to be a good
defensive team. And last year the other step forward that
he took was you know, in the past, maybe you
could kind of say, hey, you know, these individual lineups
where it's just him and not Jared Allen, like they
don't hold up defensively the same way they got better,
Like they got better with him at the five on
the defensive end, like he was able to hold his
own there and you know, I just I think all around,
he was able to improve his game in a ton
of ways.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this Trailedolf too, I think maybe towards the end
or middle of the season, but he really got better
at finishing through contact, had his best season there when
you're looking at the people index has that metric too,
but you could even just feel it while watching him.
But to that end, what is the next Evan Mobley Frontier?
Then when this guy right now feels like he's already
close to being everything in the kitchen sink, I think.
Speaker 2: Some of it is on him and some of it's
on the team, Like when I look at you know,
going away from him in the clutch time. You know,
I think it was so easy to rely on Darius
and Donovan in the regular season in those situations because
they delivered, Like Darius when you look at the clutch stats,
nobody was more efficient, Like nobody was better in the
clutch I think that than Darius. He just you know,
they didn't play as many clutch games as other teams,
but still had the most clutch wins in the league.
I want to see Evan involved in that, right Like
it's the thing we've consistently talked about is the only
instances in NBA history where smaller backcourts win and NBA
titles is when they have front court initiators. Because the
issue with the Cavs defensively in the small backcourt has
never been defense. Like even if you want to look
against the Indiana Pacers where both guards were hobbled, and
you know, Mobiley's got a high end close sprain, you're
starting six to five Max screws out there. You know
that starting lineup had a one oh seven defensive rating
against the Pacers. That wasn't the issue. Like, their defensive
rating against the Pacers overall for the series was better
than the Knicks against the Pacers. And the Knicks have
like the prototypical three and D wings Michael Bridges O
g Ananobi like that's the best you can get when
it comes to kind of role player three and D guys.
So you know, defense has never been the issue for them.
You know, going back to the Celtics, when they play
the Celtics without Jared Allen, oh god, they got Garland, Mitchell, Struce, Mobiley,
No Jared Allen, They're obviously going to get Torch. No,
they had an elite defensive rating and the actually outscored
the Celtics in those minutes, right Like, That's never been
the issue. The issue is when your two guards, smaller
guards are the only ones initiating offense, becomes so easy
to trap, to blitz, to make them uncomfortable, to allow
the shot clock to be the enemy. You need to
have those front core playmakers that can initiate offense and
take pressure off of them and in turn open up
opportunities for the guard. Red van Vliet and Kyle Lowry
when they win. You know, you have marcusol, you have
Kawhi Leonard. You have guys in the front court you
can run offense through, right like Steph Curry and Jordan Poole.
You know, same size. Steph Curry is actually smaller than
Garland when you look at standing reach because Garland's got
the bigger wingings band. If you look at like that backcourt,
they have Draymond Green, you have Andrea Gadali. You have
front court playmakers that can you know, alleviate and take
pressure off of them. I think that's what they're hoping
they have, not only in Evan Mobley, but bringing in
a Lara Nas junior and Alonzo Ball and you know,
these really really smart players that can provide that secondary
playmaking in the front court.
Speaker 1: What do you think is going to be the best
way to channel that, whether it's overall or even try
to look at getting him more involved in crunch time situations.
Is it, let's see more of Evan Mobley is the
pick and roll ball handler? Is it, let's get let's
give him more elbow touches, which did drop last year? What, like,
do you see a pathway to ensuring that they get
Like you said, it's on him to some extent, but like,
what's the what can the Calves do to make that happen?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a combination of both. Like I
want to see more like inverted picking rolls with him
as the ball handler. They love to kind of run
those horn sets and double drags things like that. Like
let's get a DeAndre Hunter and Dono and Mitchell in there, right, Like,
let's get them confused on who's going to pick, who's
going to pop? Is Mobly just going to take it
to the basket. I think that would be a lot
of fun. I think those nail touches is definitely something
I want to see more of letting him kind of
be that dribble handoff options. I really hope that the
mid range game kind of takes another step forward because
I think that that would make him so deadly because
he is able to get to the rim and finish
with strength from that position. But when you get that
defender second guessing, it opens up opportunities for you as
a driver. It opens up those backdoor cut opportunities. And
I really am excited to have someone like Larry Nance,
who's just like a technician when it comes to working
in that area, as kind of that coach on the court,
and someone that can be talking to him on the bench,
Like I think that is really really valuable from a
mentorship standpoint to you know, bring that out of him.
But I think the main thing I want to see,
I want to see that guy demand the ball. Like
he's got to be more assertive. Like I think Donovan,
Darius and Kenny all deserve some blame for not getting
him consistent touches and for going away from him in
the playoffs, But he's got to demand the ball as well,
Like he's got to become a more vocal force and really,
you know, establish that position demand those possessions, and you know,
I think that's that's an essential ingredient. Like, yeah, I
think he is capable of even like a first team
All NBA type player. He's already made his second team, right, Like,
I think he's capable of being the best player on
this team. And I don't think this team's going to
win until he's the best player on this team.
Speaker 1: We talked I think years ago, we talked about even
with the when the Mitchell trade first came through, it
was this is still this team will be actualized in
its best form if Evan wants mobile, he's their best player.
And it's a couple of years later and now we're
here in it feels like he's I think you could
have made the case he was their most important player.
But like the load that Mitchell carries, and he's always
going to draw the toughest like opposing defensive assignment, Like
there's there's just a ton of value to that to
have someone who can work like that. But like you
could have made the case it was happening last year.
Now if he's like, we're on the precipice of if
we're not looking, we're not doing this next year and saying,
regardless of how their season ends, that he was almost
clearly their best player. I'm almost at the point where
I would be a little surprised.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's interesting because Donovan was saying that even
when they got there, and I think, you know, people
have argued, hey, did you make the Donovan trade too soon?
Like did you make that all and move too soon?
I The thing is, I think it's so important to
see these guys fail, Like I think that's what you
learn from, right, Like, get these guys the high pressure opportunities,
make them learn how to share the ball amongst you know,
three four All Star caliber players, Like I know they
call it the Core four in Cleveland and you know
Jared's man and Alstar team and all that. But I
do think like there's kind of levels to this, Like
you know, two of them made All NBA teams and
Darius was like third that missed the cut front from
All NBA. Like it's a bit of a different gap
between Jared Allen who's kind of a fringe All Star.
I think Donovan's always kind of understood that Mobley is
going to need to be the guy. But I still
think that means Donovan's going to be the leading play finisher,
like I think he's going to be the leading scorer.
I think Garland's going to be the lead initiator. But
it's just about maintaining that right balance. And you know,
the unfortunate thing is when you look at the injuries
that they've had in the playoffs these last two years,
where Darius hasn't been himself and Mobiley's kind of been
banged up at times, it's changed the hierarchy of touches.
When you look from the regular season the playoffs, Donovan
will go down from you know, the third leading player
on the Cavs and touches to the first. He's that
leading play initiator. And something I really strongly feel is
right now, Donovan Mitchell, the player that he is today,
is good enough to be who the Cavs need him
to be to win an NBA champion. He is not
good enough to be who they need him to be
to win a championship. If Darius and Evan aren't you know,
carrying their load. Yeah, if Darius isn't himself physically and
Donovan needs to be the lead initiator, he's not capable
of doing that. He's a good playmaker for a shooting guard.
But like you you listen to you know basically what
the Pacers plan of attack was with Mitchell. We're not
sending any help to him. He can score as much
as he wants, but if we don't send a help defender,
we're not going to give him reads that he's actually
going to go out there and make like he's he's
going to get by his guy. He's scored at will
in the paint with with Miles Turner. He got to
the line of time, but he wasn't making anyone else
better in those spots. And you know, I think back
to even Game two where he was exhausted right like
the calf strain happened, he wore himself out. They weren't
able to inbound the ball late Jared Allen, you know,
he had I think it was like twenty four and
twelve or fourteen or something like that on six or seven. Shoot.
You weren't getting Jared Allen more touches when he was
that efficient, when he was that dominant on both ends
of the floor, Like you know that, It's just and
it's not something I hold against Mitchell. It's just not
what they'd ask of him if they were fully healthy, right,
So it's you know, there's limitations when it comes to
this game. But if Darius is who they need him
to be and Evans who they need him to be,
Dardovin is more than capable of being exactly who they
need him to be. And I think that is the
main story of this Skavs And if things don't work out,
it's going to be for that reason. It's going to
be you know, they could never be healthy at the
right time. Darius wasn't able to find that consistency, Mobley
wasn't able to step up in that way. But I
think they've gone through a lot of kind of those
you know, those wins and lessons, and I think they
have enough experience to hopefully, you know, take that step
forward next year.
Speaker 1: I didn't actually have this question until I was listening
to you and Carter do your mail bag last week
or two weeks ago, whatever it was. Is there so
it does seem is there a question who's going to
be starting at the three for them, whether it's Max
Sdruce or DeAndre Hunter? And if so, like, who is
the one that you would prefer to see them go with?
Speaker 2: I don't have a strong preference. I think there is
a bit of a question, like I think that's gonna
be a camp battle. I want Max and DeAndre to
both play like twenty eight minutes a game. I'm fine
with either outcome. I do think the best version of
this team is going to be DeAndre Hunter, like you know,
playing alongside the core four, or maybe playing at power
forwarding in some smaller ball lineups with Max Druce. But
the tricky thing is, I do think that there's a
real value, especially with Ty Jerome not here to provide
that bench scoring, of DeAndre Hunter just being that bucket
getter right like he was averaging twenty points per game
with Atlanta, he was at like scoring at that same
rate per thirty six with the Calves. Like that guy's
a bonafide score And you know, it's really funny for
all the kind of focus on the Cavs core four,
Like I think people kind of forget like Jared Allen
makes Caruso money, like he's he's the fifth highest paid
player on the team next year, like DeAndre Hunter is
number four, and I think they're going to really need
him to step up. So I do think, you know,
I don't really care who starts. I think there's a
real value to have a Max out there in the
starting lineup. Those lineups have just absolutely crushed, particularly last year,
they were terrific, And you know, with no Darius, I
think he'd brings some secondary playmaking, right, but we'll see.
I the one thing I'll say is I don't want
obviously you're going to have one different starter with Darius out,
but I don't want to change up things too much. Like,
if the plan is for DeAndre to be the starting
small forward, don't bring him off the bench just because
you need that bench scoring punch. Like start him even
if it's Donovan, Max Hunter Mobile and Allen like, I'd
be fine with that. I want people to be like
as close to their actual roles as possible to start
the season and just kind of move from there.
Speaker 1: I think I would would prefer to have DeAndre Hunter
coming off the bench because for my two main reasons
would be I think it then gets easier to get
to those lineups that I know that he killed when
you subbed him in with the core four last year.
That lineup date is insane. But I like him better
at the four than I do at the three, and
I feel like it's yearly get to those lineups as
a rebounder. We could have a conversation about that clearly,
And then you mentioned I like Strewce's playmaking. But the
other thing is is that it felt like DeAndre Hunter
and maybe he did shift his play style and his
shot died a lot last year, but like, it just
doesn't seem like a coincidence to be that he was
in the sixth Man of the Year running and had
the best season of his career. I think there's value
in getting him to go up against those secondary lineups
where the type of game that Max Shrewce plays, where
he's more of a ball mover, and even just the
shots he's gonna take, like DeAndre Hunter is not going
to hit the same level of shots at least from
the perimeter off movement, like he would prefer to dribble
up into those you know, pull up two pointers. I
just like Max Struce's fit then with the core four better.
So those will be my two reasons. But this team
is so deep and I know it's matchup dependent. I
just I honestly didn't think it was a question, and
I was listening to that podcast. I was like, oh,
Cash fans are talking. I just I had Max Strew's
penciled in. I'm not gonna I knew what the lineup
data was, but I just had Strew's pencils in there.
Speaker 2: I think KAS fans are some of the best in
the league. They are passionate, they are insane. They listen
to a niche podcast like The Chase Down and they
give us awesome feedback. They are a little obsessed with
a measuring tape. They like they look at Max Strius
and they go six five, that's too small. He should
be like only a shooting guard. Even though it's never
been an issue, you know, like they focused on.
Speaker 1: My army played him at the four all the time.
Speaker 2: He was like primarily a four. He was a four
on a team that went to the finals with a
six to ninth center in bam Adebayo, Like, you know,
it has not been an issue. I like when we
traded for DeAndre Hunter, I really wanted Hunter to start,
Like I was passionate about it. I was like, I
wanted to see Minace with with him in the core.
I like I like the Larry Nan signing because we're
you know, you might like him more at the four.
I want him playing more all forward, and I think
having you know, Nancy and Dean Wade behind Mobiley allows
you to play a Hunter at the three, just so
that you have size on the court, man, like I
want to have more size around the guards and stuff
like that. But like I do think, you know, there's
a real you know, people obsess about the size hasn't
been an issue on defense. Max is capable of defending.
You know, up, He's a really tough defender. I just
don't think there's really a wrong option. And you know,
if you're trying to keep DeAndre Hunter healthy as well,
right and manage his minutes in the regular season, maybe
coming in off the bench gives you a better chance
to be able to consistently close with him or have
him as an option to close with. And you know,
I think the most important thing is building out your
best forty eight minutes, not necessarily let's you know, walk
out of the tunnel or have the announcer say, you know,
the most aesthetically pleasing five to start the game.
Speaker 1: And the other thing with him too is this shots
that he did cut down out of points but still
wants to take like those will be more readily available
in the secondary units than if he's playing alongside Mobiley
Mitchell and Garland, you know, seventy percent of the time. Yeah,
So their defense fascinates me because they simultaneous feel like
underrated on the defensive end. You mentioned a lot of
stuff with their smaller players were able to do, and
then also just like okay, like there's some maybe schematic
issues here, and you and Carter talked a lot about
surrendering soft switches. What is it that we should be
watching for this season from the Calves on the defensive end,
whether it's something you want to see them implement a
concern you're tracking, whatever it might be.
Speaker 2: Definitely want to see how much they kind of saw
switch because they didn't do that a ton out of
under JB. Bickerstaff and I just felt like they were
giving up teams like too good of options, like like
it just particularly against Boston, right like every single time
Boston comes down the court. As I said before, what
the Calves do is they use Darius as their primary
point of attack defender. They do not hide them like
if it's Tree Young, if it's you know.
Speaker 1: Was probably a breadth of fresh air for DeAndre Hunter
by the way going from Atlanta to oh.
Speaker 2: For sure, right, And you know, Darius is kind of
in that steph category where like he's going to give
up size, he's going to give up strength. You're going
to be able to attack him on mismatches, Teams are
going to get him involved. They want to wear him down,
they want to make him tired. But he's going to
be in position he doesn't like allow guys to blow
by him, and like he's going to compete on the
defensive end, right, And that's kind of all you can
really ask of a guy like that. But I've had
these conversations before. We're you know, statistically, like Donovan's a
worst defender, at least in the regular season. I do
think he steps it up when he needs to, but
he saves himself a little bit. But like if Donovan's
out there or Sam Merrill's out there and they're kind
of hiding in the corner, you're not going to go
through the trouble of bringing them into the action for
you know, a marginally worst defender. When hey, you're going
to give us you know, Darius Garland defending Jason Tatum
without any fight. You are going to saw switch and
Darius is going to defend Tatum. No player in the
NBA defended more Jason Tatum shots than Darius Garland last year.
I think Tatum went like nine of twenty seven on
those shots. But it has like a wear and tear effect, right,
like you're going to wear them down by doing that.
And with the cast, they have so many good screen
navigators that I just like to see them, you know,
put up a little bit more of a fight, you know,
change up the variety of their schemes. Maybe the plan
was to do that in the playoffs, and they stayed
with the base look in the regular season, and then
they just weren't healthy, so we didn't get to see that,
or at least it wasn't necessary against Miami. But I'd
like to see a little bit more of that, maybe
a little more three two zone. I really liked the
three two zone with Mobley up at the top. They
did that a lot in his rookie year. They didn't
and kind of spurts this year. I think you can
do that with either Mobley or Hunter kind of leading
that three to two. But I just want to see
a little less predictability from them. Defensively. I just don't
think they made teams uncomfortable. I think they have the
capability of being able to do that.
Speaker 1: Do you think they have the personnel to do that
while also retaining the unpredictability that they were able to
inject into their offense last year though, So I think
that was a huge point. Everyone talked about, oh, look
at the shooting, look at the shooting, but it was
just the calves. To me, we're just so much more
harder to predict on any given offensive possession, and I
think that's what kind of made them part of what
made them really special last year.
Speaker 2: I would say to do that, two things are necessary. One,
it's going to take some dedication. And I think the
way Kenny Atkinson deploys his rotation, I think you're able
to do that because he nobody has really long shifts.
You're almost able to do what you did in Olympic basketball,
right like when Kenny was coaching with Team France and
stuff like that. All Right, you're going to play five
six minutes here, but you're going to play hard in
those minutes, right Like, you're going to play hard on
both ends, but we're going to sub you out and
you're going to get your breaks. I think that is needed,
like you need to get that level buy in from everybody.
The other thing is, I think some of them have
to become better communicators. Like even looking back at then
Indiana series, I think there are too many times where
I just could tell Jared Allen wasn't talking. I think
he and Mobley needs to become more vocal. I remember,
I think it was like maybe three years ago we
talked to Jared Allen at media Day and he was saying, like,
that's not really me. Like I kind of asked him
about being vocal, being that quarterback of the defense, and
he's like, Ah, that's not really my personality, that's not me.
And then like two years later we talked to him
again immedia day. It's like, I'm working on being more vocal.
It's really important. It's a really big part of the position.
So maybe that that's, you know, one of those areas
that he can take the can take a step forward
because as the big man, that's your responsibility. You have
to be calling everything out. And I think so often
Jared's almost the canary and the coal mine, like when
the communication is breaking down, when the effort isn't there.
He kind of shuts down, and when he shuts down,
it's not elevating the rest of the team. And I
would love for him to be that kind of like
high energy guy that you know, is not like the
indicator of the health of what's going on right now,
but can you know, kind of booy up everybody level.
But I just don't know if he's that guy, So
I kind of I want to see more communication out
of them. I think they're capable of doing it. I
think the personnel is good enough. It's just going to
take buy in from everybody.
Speaker 1: We already talked about Jale and Tyson. Do you have
any thoughts about Tyre's Proctor the jitterbug who operates at
warp speed.
Speaker 2: This is where like me being a sicko is just
such a problem because I got a text from my brother,
like the day before the draft, He's like, I guarantee
you the Cavs are going to draft the steel of
the draft in your eyes, And I'm like, after the
draft happened, I'm sitting there, I'm like, man, Tyre's really
might have been the steel of the draft. Like this
is a guy you know that was projected a goal
a whole lot higher. Probably not a lead guard, but
someone that can initiate, you know, he kind of blends.
I was actually really curious after they drafted. I'm like,
I don't know what this means for Sam Merrill or
Ty Jerome because he kind of splits the difference. He
can provide something with that ball handling. He is such
a knockdown shooter. He is such an intelligent off ballplayer.
He's really long, he's six', five with you, know a
good defensive. ACUMEN i can see him turning into a
really nice. Player maybe he can be their Nem hard,
Right LIKE i think that's what they're they're hoping for,
for you, know probably not be as good of a
defensive player as Them hard because you, are but you,
know a more reliable shooter that can bring you some
secondary playmaking and isn't a liability on. Defense Like I'm
i've gotten my hopes up for him long. Term but
when you have championship aspirations and already like no eleven
guys that deserve, minutes it's going to be really tough for.
Speaker 1: HIM i don't want to overromantracize, him BUT i actually
might be a little bit higher on him as someone
who could pass after seeing him a summer. League it,
WAS i know everyone's gonna harp on the was a
thirty five points against The kings even when a SHOT's
not going, in like his ability to get to.
Speaker 2: It everything one is pretty it's.
Speaker 1: Crazy and then fifteen assists excuse me against six turnovers
in summer, League like they should probably make a statue for.
THAT i feel, like so like.
Speaker 2: You don't know who you're playing, With like there is
no time to get on the same page with, Everybody
like he does take such good care of the, basketball
and you, know, normally like when The cavs have a
first round, Pick i'll dive into a lot of draft
content right, like well we'll have draft analysts, on, like,
okay who are the likely guys In cavs range here
and all. That we didn't do any of that because
we're like middle of the second let's just find out
who it is and then bring people on. After SO
i was like diving into all the podcasts and the analysis,
after and you, know every single ONE i listened to
Love Tyree's proctor and that was from like before the,
draft where it's like If boston's going to draft. HIM
i could see him having a role On, boston LIKE
i could see him having a role on a playoff.
Team And i'm just sitting there Like bowman at the,
mouth being, Like, okay this is red meat for, Me
like this is this is exactly WHAT i wanted to,
hear because you, know it's a skill set that, translates,
Right like if you're talking about a position group that
is able to jump into being rotation players sooner than,
most it's usually a guard that isn't a liability on
defense and doesn't have to fix their. Jumper he seems
like he fits that.
Speaker 1: Mold that's why you mentioned the. Draft that was. Stuff
that's MY i still do radio spots IN itsi of podcast.
Spots my least favorite time of year to do them
is around draft time because if you're going on a,
station like in a certain, region there's invariably the question, like,
well who Should phoenix pick at number fifty? Two it's,
like And i've gotten to the habit where it's Like
i'll Just i'd SAY i don't, Know Like i'm just comfortable.
Enough i'm old, enough soores LIKE i HAVE i have
not scouted the top fifties in the, Draft, Like i'm
still trying to get through the lottery prospects my. People
so that's my least favorite. Question are you ready to
enter the cookie cutter portion of the?
Speaker 2: Podcast hell, yeah.
Speaker 1: Buddy so what's an underrated strength or just an element
to this team that you don't think is receiving enough.
Speaker 2: ATTENTION i think maybe it is the, defense, right like
the fact that they are able to play these smaller
lineups and has a unit they perform better than you
would expect with their, personnel. RIGHT i think so often
they have struggled like crazy on offense in the, playoffs
and that has made it feel worse, defensively, Right like
when you can't get a, bucket it's, like, okay well
at least get the, stop and you, know you allow
to score on two out of six, possessions but it felt, backbreaking,
Right AND i think as a result of, that people
have a misconception of what they are. Defensively this is
a really good defensive. Team it's a really good defensive
team in the regular. Season it's a really good defensive.
Team in the. Playoffs it played well as a unit
even banged. Up they're not as reliant on having the
two bigs out, there you, know at all times to
cover for, guys because they do a good enough job
themselves at full.
Speaker 1: Strength who will be the top ten most used players
on this? TEAM i think we just have the. Six
it's the core, Four Max, Strews DeAndre, hunter and then
how do you see it fleshing out from?
Speaker 2: THERE i think after, THAT i would probably Guess Larry
Dance junior BECAUSE i think he'll probably play more games Than.
Lonzo lonzo will but.
Speaker 1: The fact that it could be a discussion, though, yeah
a little.
Speaker 2: Unnerving but you, know he got a lot Of, YEAH
i did not play coaches decisions In. Atlanta they were trying,
to you, know showcase some young guys for trades and
stuff like. That he was awesome when he, played, Though.
Speaker 1: HEY i WAS i wanted him to just Like land
on a good team last. Year but it was. Funny
the other thing that came up with the mail bag
Was cavs fans seeming a little concerned, about like do
we need to get another big? Man like this isn't
basically the, Road like you Turned Tristan thompson Into Larry
NaNs junior and that was your big man, rotation but
like you've.
Speaker 2: Upgraded, yeah it's definitely an improvement. THERE i wouldn't hate
bringing in another big.
Speaker 1: But barlow still out. There i'm just, saying there you.
Speaker 2: Go, Yeah SO i think Probably. LARRY i might Guess Dean,
wade like even he's, got you, know injury concerns THAT
i think about, it but, LIKE.
Speaker 1: I just feel Like cleveland's bench doesn't If DeAndre hunter's
coming off the, Bench Sam, MERRILL i, guess is? That?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Sam, Oh, actually you know WHAT i should have, Said,
SAM i Think sam's going to play more than you,
Know larry or A. Lonzo sam's probably going to be
that seventh. Guy then then Then, Larry, Lonzo. DEAN i
think that's already. Ten But I'm i'm really really interested
to see if it's going to Be Jalen tyson Or Dean,
wade BECAUSE i think What Jalen tyson can bring is
very very much what this team.
Speaker 1: Needs SO i think you kind of answered the first
part of the question of who could you see maybe
rising in the rotation that wouldn't be in at the
start As. Tyson is there anyone that you could see
being kind of squeezed because of this depth That cleveland.
Speaker 2: Has, YEAH i guess it would have to be Either
dean Or Sam. Merrill LIKE i think if The cavs
start playing a lot larger and Like Jalen tyson is
able to step up and you, Know lonzo's a little
healthier than they, EXPECTED i could see it shifting where
you know there's Less sam and you know there is
a bit of a roster crunch, there or it's going
to come With Dean. Wade Like Jalen. Tyson, yeah he's six,
six but he played a lot of power forward for
The cavs in his rookie yar like it just the
way it kind of worked. Out he is a menace
on the glass like. That that guy has such a
nose for for the offensive and defensive. Glass he makes
such a big. Difference he's he's kind of Like Josh
harden that. Way and you, know if that jumper is,
legit which there's been a lot of positive signs he's. Jumper, yeah, yeah,
yeah only only when he's playing The caves in the
playoffs is that jumper looking? Good but, no It's Jalen,
tyson you, know coming in coming out of college where
he's basically like his second year in college he was
a three AND d, guy and then his last year
in college he was Like helio Centric Luka, doncic like
running the offense to now being an off ball player
that they expected to give like those hustle, plays make
make the right pass and all. That, like it's just
such an interesting journey for. Him but a jack of
all trades kind of role that brings physicality is something
that this team sorely.
Speaker 1: NEEDS i just like to point out in my notes to,
you it, said, please for the sake of my mental,
health don't Pick Sam merril as the player getting. Squeezed
and you just showed no regard for human life right.
Speaker 2: There that's. OKAY i don't think he'll get, squeezed but
he's kind of in that mix.
Speaker 1: There so this is to a large extent matchup. Dependent
but what do you think ends up being their go
to closing unit this?
Speaker 2: YEAR i think it. DEPENDS i think if they are,
winning you're going to see two bigs out there and
Either Max struce Or DeAndre hunter with the. Guards if
they are, TRAILING i can See DeAndre hunter at the
four with the guards And Max druce at the three
And Evan. Mobley i'm really interested to see how that lineup.
Looks there was not a lot of minutes last year
With DeAndre hunter in the core, four like just an
embarrassingly small number of. POSSESSIONS i want to see more of.
THAT i think that's something that they could go, to
but that's kind of my. GUESS i think it's going
to be more about what do they need more so
than who they're playing.
Speaker 1: Against what is one of my favorite questions to ask
a weirdo lineup that you Want Kenny atkinson to roll
out this?
Speaker 2: YEAR i want to See donovan out there With, Lonzo
Sam larry And. EVAN i just. It it's just, funky it's.
Weird everyone's kind of a, playmaker with the exception Of Sam,
meryll like he'll make the right, play but he just
kind of has that. GRAVITY i think that's such a
HIGH iq lineup that could potentially be really good offensively Without.
Darius that's something that team is, sorely sorely. Needed So
i'm just trying to throw as MUCH iq out there
as possible With donovan and see it if it.
Speaker 1: WORKS i want to see like the weirdest four guard
Plus evan mobile unit we could, build like is It Lonzo, no, no, NO.
Speaker 2: I, CAN i can give you. That so that would
Be Craig, Porter, Junior, Tyres, Proctor Jalen, Tyson Max struce
at the four And evan and just see if it.
Speaker 1: Works give Me, Mobley tyson And strus because then It's
streus And. Tyson give me interchangeable at the four and
Then Sam merrill has to be, there and then Gimme
lonzo ball as. Well we're just gonna remember out. THERE
i would like to See proctors even signed his deal yet,
though so, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: That was part of. It so part of the post
draft analysis Was proctor's agents were basically telling teams not
to draft them because they're like positioning to go To
cleveland Because cleveland was one of the only teams that
was offering OR i Think cleveland was the only team
that was offering like a FULL nba contract four years
for a second round. Pick and he's like to give me.
Speaker 1: There Gimme, Procter, Tyson, Mobley struce And. Meryl that's so.
Speaker 2: Funny, YEAH i, MEAN i mean.
Speaker 1: That should just be a garbage time, unit like let's
just do. It like There's cleveland's gonna play plenty of,
garbage like be on the right side of garbage. Time
so let's just let's roll that one out there before
we get to. Predictions is there anything else we haven't
talked about touched upon that you think needs to be.
Speaker 2: DISCUSSED i just mentioned, him BUT i can See Craig Porter.
Jr having a. Role he had a pretty prominent role
in his rookie year as an undrafted player with you,
Know darius missed some time in the start, Season donovan miss. Time,
obviously the backup guard rotation really did not work out
for them because you, know they Had Ti, jerome he
broke his ankle a couple of minutes into the season
and missed the. Season Ricky rubio did not, play ended up.
Retiring so we thought we had all this depth at
the position where we're, like, oh, yeah we Got, Darius, Jerome,
rubio like this is this is, Perfect like this is
gonna work, Out and all of them were unavailable by
like game three of the. Season So Craig Porter. Jr
really stepped up in that. TIME i think this is
a real make or break season for. HIM i could
see him potentially playing sometime With Darius. OUT i like
what he. Did he's a really active. Player could probably
stand to be a little bit better on the defensive.
End the three point shot is a bit of a.
Question but he is a hard. Worker he's someone that
you know will go down willingly and play with The
charge just to get extra. Reps he And Jalen. TYSON
i think it happened three times they played a game
in THE G league and a game in THE nba
in the same, day like it was an afternoon game
for The, charge and then they would go up and
they would play in the actual game for The. Cavs
like it's, Nuts like these these guys are. Bonkers SO
i think there's an opportunity here For Craig Porter. Jr
and might be a bit of a make or break, season,
Right like if he loses out minutes and he loses
opportunity to A Tyres, proctor they might choose to go
a different, Position like it's a non guaranteed contract that they,
might you, know factor into their decision making at the trade.
Speaker 1: Deadline he's already off to a terrible start, though because
he didn't make that weird to line up With mobiley in.
Speaker 2: The Four guards you, know it's it's a devastating blow for.
Speaker 1: Him, okay, predictions how many games games do you think
this team is going to? Win and where do you
see them finishing in The Eastern conference during the regular.
Speaker 2: SEASON i think they're still going to finish first in The.
EAST i think the lack of depth in The Eastern
conference is really going to help them. OUT i don't
know how much Time darius is going to. Miss I'm
i'm kind of hoping this is like The Gary trent junior,
incident where you, know he misses like the first eight
games of the, season and that's kind of. It We're
trent poked him in the eye in the season. Opener
hopefully it's that you, know history doesn't always, repeat but
it often. Rhymes i'm kind of hoping That darius missing
time ten years later is going to be Like kyrie
missing the first start of the season in the year
that The cavs finally won the. Championship maybe that's what it.
Is we to finally get our Point touard, healthy they
just have to miss the start of the season and
then this team is going to win a. Championship SO
i think they're going to finish first in The, east
AND i have. THEM i think they're going to get
about sixty one.
Speaker 1: Wins, wow that's actually substantially how the over under is
fifty five and a half as we record, this so
that's substantially. HOT i hadn't. Wondered they're just so deep
that it ultimately might not, matter but i'd wonder just
as a team in their, position, Like, okay how hard are?
They like they create separation early, On like what did
the rotations start to look like in late like Mid,
march Early.
Speaker 2: April, YEAH i think we saw some of that last year,
though Like donovan career low, usage career low, Minutes like
they really took the regular season casually last. Year LIKE
i think that's something that slipped under, radar like everyone
to see. Them, no they're playing every game like the. Finals, well,
no they were just.
Speaker 1: They were also just so. Good it wasn't like so
yeah and like will THAT i guess you have the
knicks and the, magic but kind of after, that it's
a lot of other teams need things.
Speaker 2: To break right. To. Yeah the lack of depth in
The EAST i think is going to be a major.
Factor so you, know they don't have any you Know
paris or or you, know overseas trips or anything like.
THAT i don't think the full schedules out. Yet one
thing that really on a bit them in the ass
last year was they had THE Mac tournament and THE Ncaa,
TOURNAMENT i think something else all happening In, cleveland like
back to back to, back so they functionally PLAYED i
think it was twenty two games in a row where
they never played in the same city, twice like it's
basically a twenty two game road. Trip AND i think
it extended even further than. That it was like basically
Like february And march where they almost never played in
the same. City like even the games In cleveland were
basically like a road game where you're leaving the night that.
Night so that was kind of a little bit of
their late season. SLIDE i haven't seen anything like that,
yet BUT i think that was one of those things
that just really kind of tied this team. Out AND
i think you saw it with some of the numbers
with the guards at that.
Speaker 1: Point is there and anyone who listened to The Chase
down episode THAT i did with you will have this
will be, Spoiled but is there a contender in The
east that particularly worries you or fascinates. You as a
matchup For, CLEVELAND.
Speaker 2: I Think orlando probably is best equipped to give them a.
TEST i think if The Desmond bane thing works and If, Paalo,
Bank carol And Franz wagner can be primary, initiators WHICH
i think is What orlando's banking on rather than getting
a traditional point, GUARD i think that THEY i think
they're capable of being The cavs in this. SERIES i
think The caves would have to you, know play down,
level which we've seen them do quite a few. TIMES
i think The magic would have to have a lot
of things go right and stay. Healthy they have a
lot of, questions you, know for in the health department as.
Well BUT i just, think you, know from a matchup,
standpoint they can make it ugly against. Anyone we saw
them do that Against boston even without their best defensive.
PLAYER i think that they have a lot of room
for internal. GROWTH i Think polo can, be you, know
an ALL nba player for, sure and when you have
that kind of a, MIX i think you can be
a dangerous team that can upset.
Speaker 1: Anybody if they end up being like second in The
east during the regular. SEASON i just won't be. SURPRISED
i assume it's The, knicks but it wouldn't shock me
if it's just.
Speaker 2: Stay on the other side of the. Bracket but that's
all one.
Speaker 1: For the second or third is what you're rooting, For,
yes second or?
Speaker 2: Third you, know or you know if The calves are
or second or third be the. Way, yeah JUST i
don't want to see you before The Eastern conference. Finals
if we have to see, you then we. Will i'm
we're gonna have to, find, like you, know a magic
person to come on BECAUSE i don't think that team
is going anywhere anytime. Soon we don't have our default
magic guests yet for the.
Speaker 1: Podcast AND i think you put it perfectly the other
day when you just said anytime you play The, magic
especially in a playoff series that's gonna last six or seven,
games win or, lose you're just going to feel it
leading to the next you're going to it's.
Speaker 2: Going to have an effect on the next. Series it's
it's like the opposite of kind of back in the
day where The calves would always play like The raptors
on the way to play The, warriors and Like game
one against The. Warriors you would always lose because it
was just such a level up from you, know embarrassing The,
raptors where you, know you're throwing the ball off the
backboard and you're basically Like globe chottering it, up and
it's like, right, Right basketball is. Hard sometimes we have to,
Focus we have to you, know kind of bunker down,
here and you, know we really give an effort. Here
this is In toronto.
Speaker 1: Anymore what a bookend by? You you started off the
podcast basically saying that you ended. It that's why we
bring on a pro like yourself justin this was. Great
are you able just to tell our, listeners, subscribers viewers
where they can find you in all the fantastic work
that you put. Out.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely you guys know where to find. Podcasts you
found this. One wherever you found this, one you can
find The Chase. Down we are available on every single.
App we also go live on The cavs YouTube channel
once a week in the off, season twice a week
during the. Season you can find me On twitter At
calves AND i slap The calves In. Canada you'll find
me There Calves.
Speaker 1: Annita it's gonna remember.
Speaker 2: It last Year nobody and.
Speaker 1: The niche podcast that's also on The cavs YouTube. Channel
that is a that's a very oxymorotic thing to.
Speaker 2: SAY i think it's still. Niche hell, man it's you guys.
Speaker 1: Do you're. Great it's specific and they give you so
much of a rope when it comes to the things
that you guys talk. About so that's WHY i would
even advocate for. More so you have people Like justin
And carter saying these really analytical and can be critical
things on The cave YouTube. CHANNEL i think that's.
Speaker 2: Excellent so they it's it's been. Unbelievable, Man like we
WERE i think we're going into year five of this
partnership and like we're. Not we don't get notes on
like the podcast and the, content, Right like they trust
us to be. Respectful they they told us going, In,
hey we were not trying to change the, pod like
do what you guys, do and LIKE i feel like
an extra set of, responsibility like obviously you know we're
going live on the cabs YouTube, channel like especially going
my post. Game, SORRY i know we were trying to
wrap this, up but like you, KNOW i feel like
it almost makes me a better fan and there's like
a little bit of a detachment because you can't be as.
Emotional But i'm, LIKE i want to contextualize, this so,
like let me say What i'm, thinking what my read
on this situation. Is and, also you, know give The
Devil's advocates, side, like let's think about this whole pick.
Sure AND i think it's made the podcast better rather
than like stifled. Us And i'm super appreciative that they've
given us that freedom they've been.
Speaker 1: DIRECTED i still listen so AND i have a thing
WITH i don't love player. PODCASTS i don't really love
team sponsor. Podcasts yours is great and it stayed great
from its inception until. Now so thank you for all
the worth of, you and thank you for sharing it with.
Us AND i, think as you know by, NOW i
will be spamming your dms in the.
Speaker 2: Future hell, yeah, buddy