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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow sickos, I am Dama Valley coming

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at you with another twenty twenty five twenty six NBA

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season look ahead. We are onto the Cleveland Cavaliers, which

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means we get to speak with friend of the show

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doing this. I think for the fifth year he's reached

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his half decade mark with the look Ahead. He is

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the co host of the wildly popular, insanely entertaining Chase

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Down podcast, Mister Justin Rowan, and I'm gonna pronounce your

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Twitter hander Twitter handle correctly. I know it's not off

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to a good start this time. Follow him on all

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the social media machines, basically at Cavesanada.

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Speaker 2: Oh, Calves Anada, you gotta go Canada.

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Speaker 1: Can't do I can't you know, Calves Adada.

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Speaker 2: This is this is my favorite bit because it means

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that you have to have me back for year six,

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and it's just going to keep the cycle going. You're

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gonna have another swing at it. It just I hope

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you never get it right. I hope I get to

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keep coming on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're after your ear. What's the chance that I

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get it right in year six? I feel like we're

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still sub fifty.

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Speaker 2: You know, your memory is kind of like mine. I

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feel like you're going to forget all the notes. You're

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not going to listen back next year. You're going to

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go in just going off of vibes. But yeah, you

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slap the caves in Canada. That's how you get there.

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Speaker 1: Calves Addeda, go follow him across social media machines. He

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is great. Him and Carter. Anyone who listens to this podcast,

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I shout out that podcast all the time, one of

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my favorite listens. You guys do fantastic work. And now

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I'm excited. I was on your show the other day,

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so go check that out you haven't already, And now

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I get to pick your brain. I was telling you

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before we got started, I was having trouble not asking

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you guys questions. Well, I was guessing about the caves

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while we're doing something about the East. So now I

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get to ask those questions. I wanted to start here.

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What do you make of how last season ended? Trying

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to separate it from you look at that Pacer series,

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the injuries piling up, how some of their other postseason

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series have ended, but then also trying to measure it

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through the lens of okay, like this is year three

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of this core together. What do you take away from

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that and things that you either want to see differently

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or things that might have concerned you.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be disrespectful to the Indiana Pacers.

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What they went on to do after beating the Calves,

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I think opened my eyes to just how good that

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team was. And not that I didn't recognize that plane

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against them, but you know, that was a team that

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really understood its identity and found a way to play

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and be more than the sum of its parts. I

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think that's still something that the Calves are trying to

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figure out, is how to be better, be more than

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the some of their parts, particularly when it comes to

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the postseason. I feel like even with the injuries that

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the Calves suffered for the most part in that series

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against the Pacers, I think there's still a world where

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they could have won, right Like you know that that

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Halliburn game winner sucked Calves win that game obviously, if

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there isn't either of those two lane violations, both of

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theme Nie Smith and the Halliburn one that were both

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in the two minute report, you know, I thought the

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Nie Myth one was a little egregious since he was

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already at the free throw a line when Pascal Siakam

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had the ball in his hands still. But you know,

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little things like that like that, the margins were really

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thin within that series. But I think the injuries basically

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leveled the playing field to the point where some of

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the Cavs bad habits got exposed. And I think some

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of those habits didn't come back to bite them in

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the regular season because they were just able to out

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talent a lot of the teams that they were dealing with.

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One of the main things though, that you know, I

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think you saw in the regular season and then really

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in that playoff series was when things got tight, when

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when the game was in the clutch, When when it was,

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you know, the last five minutes of a close game,

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they'd go away from Evan Mobley. His usage drops from

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twenty three percent on the season down to twelve percent

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in clutch situations. That's not going to cut it. You

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were asking too much of your smaller backcourt to initiate

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too much of the offense, and you become too predictable

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when that happens. So I think some of the bad

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habits got illuminated kind of with the injuries that they

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had and stuff like that. Like, obviously, the injuries suck,

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and that's something that's probably a concern moving forward. But

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I do think some of the growing pains and things

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that they had to go through got exposed in that series.

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And even if they were healthy, I think okay, s

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would have absolutely exposed that because they were able to

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do the same types of things defensively, just with much

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better defensive personnel.

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Speaker 1: I want to get back to the mobile things. I

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actually have eleven point nine percent usage in those moments

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in my notes. But what I really want to ask

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you is, so the Cavs go into this offseason, we

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know kind of the chorus set at that point, no flexibility.

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I think the question was how far into the second

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apron where they we willing to go? And as of

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right now, they are twenty million dollars into their second apron,

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and that's something you tip your cap to. But just

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looking at the lack of resources they had, the lack

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of flexibility and then what they ultimately did a coro

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Jerome out Lonzo in Sam Merrill's back, you have Larry

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nance Junior, nice little reunion there. What have you kind

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of thought of? How did you feel about their offseason

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and general.

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Speaker 2: I'm mostly pleased with it. You know, I thought that

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they were going to be able to retain Ti Jerome.

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You know, there has kind of been national folks that

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have alluded to, hey, you know, maybe you know there

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was miscommunication there or Tie kind of presented that he

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had a different kind of offer and that caused the

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Cavs to go a different direction. I thought that there

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was the ability to bring back both he and Sam Maryril.

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But the interesting thing when you think about having both

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Sam Merril and Ti Jerome on the team is Ti

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Jerome would be out there anytime when of Darius or

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Donovan was off the court, right Like, You're always going

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to have him there, So you have multiple ball handlers. Well,

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sam Merrill deserved a lot of minutes. So if Sam

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Merrill's going to play, and you're always going to have

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at least two of Garland, Mitchell and Jerome out there,

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that means six four. Sam Merrill's playing small ford, and

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he played a ton of small ford. And when you're

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already you know, giving up some height in the back court,

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you're not going to change how it feels to play

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against you. If you're not kind of changing up the

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personnel around them, And that was one of my takeaways

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at the end of the season was there might be

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a decision that they have to make between Ti Jerome

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and Sam Merril. I probably would have leaned tied to

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some extent, But at the same time, Ti Jerome was

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the weakest defender out of the bunch, Like even though

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he's you know, six four, six five, he was the

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weakest defender of the group. They used Darius Garland as

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their point of attack defender like all the time because

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he's the stronger defender out of at least in the

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regular season, out of Mitchell, Jerome and Merrill. So I

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think what they did was they've kind of done moves

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to make themselves feel different to play against them. And

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if you can't change up the core, you need to

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change up the guys out there around them. And when

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you have you know, six seven Lonzo Ball out there

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playing as kind of in that Tai Jerome role, now

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it doesn't matter that Sam Merril's out there because he

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can functionally be the shooting guard while Lonzo Ball is

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able to defend some of those longer threes.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's an interesting I guess I think about

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it that way. I viewed it as they decided to

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pivot to Lonzo almost then a Ti Jerome, and that

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they like the short terminus of the contract more. I

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still think I might have if it was a Meryl

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or Jerome discussion, I might have picked Meryl just because

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just the theory of this team, their depth is so important.

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But like Ti Jerome shouldn't be on the floor when

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it matters as much, and there's a chance that like,

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and maybe I'm just too pilled from Okay, sam Merrel

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did play him three last year, and if you're healthier,

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ideally not gonna see that happen. But I just don't

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like if it was the choice between them, I think

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I value what sam Merrill does more for this team.

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And he's also you know, you guys have mentioned this

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in the chase down. I think this has kind of

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become like known among Sickos. Is just that he'll fight

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on defense too, and as you said, Jerome was the

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weaker defender and for this team, that aside from Mobile

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and Allen, doesn't feel like it has like, yeah, Dean

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Wade has his moments, DeAndre Hunter has his moments. Doesn't

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just have that like stopper on the perimeter, per se,

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Like I appreciate what Sam Merrill can do, but yeah,

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I guess I really hadn't thought of it in the

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Jerome versus Meryl terms.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, Sam Merrill when you look at

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like the basketball index tracking data and stuff like that,

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like he does a really good job of screen navigation,

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Like he's in the right positions. He'll get burned every

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now and then in isolation, but he does a good job.

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And I just think, you know, when you have Lonzo

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Ball out there as a potential option, it just changes

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how it feels to play against you, right, And I

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think one of the things that kind of stuck with

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me is, all right, you're playing the Indiana Pacers. Darius

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is literally on one foot, you know, trying to tough

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it out. He can't really move, so we have him

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moved off ball. Donovan Mitchell's playing through a calf strain,

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so his movement's a little limited. And your one healthy guard,

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Ti Jerome can't bring the ball up over half court

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without getting an eight second violation against pressure. Like we

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kind of needed him to step up in that moment.

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So it's kind of understandable that they might go a

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different direction. And you know why I initially leaned Ti

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Jerome compared to you know, sam Merril was I want

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to have playmaking on the court. I think that's one

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of the main takeaways when I look at the last

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you know, five to six NBA champions, is they have

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guys that can create at every single position. Even if

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they can't be primary initiators, have a lot of secondary guys,

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right like you have guys that when the ball swings

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and the defense is off balance, they can make something happen.

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And you know, I think the Cavs are bringing in

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guys that can do that kind of stuff. Larry Nance

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junior high IQ player, Lonzo Ball high IQ player. So

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if sam Merril's going to be that kind of gravity

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guy moving off of all these other high IQ players,

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I think there's something to that. And the flip side

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is it opens up an opportunity for someone like Jalen Tyson,

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who has both played on and off ball and has

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shown some real chops as a playmaker. Gives him an

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opportunity to you know, play a more prominent role and

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to kind of be that playmaker with some size that

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you know, really gets in there and gets a lot

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of rebounds and can buy you some extra possessions. Cavs

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need that. They if you can't change you know, it's

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going to be my mantra of the Aussie And if

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you can't change the core, you have to change how

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it feels to play against them, and the only way

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you can do that is by changing the rest of

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the rotation.

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Speaker 1: My initial concern with that was even getting rid of

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Tide Jerome and I mentioned this when we talk the

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other day, that it does feel like they might have

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guys who can catch and make quick decisions if you

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need someone to initiate half court offense aside from Garland,

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aside for Mitchell, it felt like Jerome would be better.

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Then you get into well, if you're banking on mobile improvement,

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maybe that's not as big of a deal. Perhaps they're

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a little bit light there, but it does seem like

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you might believe that maybe you can get some of

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that out of a sophomore jail and Tyson this year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe a little bit. I don't want to rely

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on it too much, Like realistically speaking, we're talking about

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him probably as a tenth or eleventh man, right, Like

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it's going to depend on how Kenny Atkinson chooses to

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play it basically, like is Dean Wade going to be

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that guy or is it going to be Jalen Tyson.

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I do think you're going to have to kind of

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rely on a lot of secondary playmaking. Like I like

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Lonzo as a playmaker. He's not a lead ball handler

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like you know he used to be with the Laker.

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It's like that's not really his role. But you know,

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if you're kind of replacing that playmaking in the aggregating

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and implementing an offense that isn't heliocentric at all, where

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it's almost kind of like a Boston Celtics approach where

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if we put enough secondary playmakers on the court, and

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you know, we we have confidence in our offensive scheme,

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maybe we're going to be able to generate offense consistently enough.

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And I certainly have some playmaking questions, particularly early in

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the season. Darius Garland is going to miss time. You

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look at them historically, the draw like they just haven't

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been able to have a top ten offense without Garland

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on the court. Like last season they went from they

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should trade him obviously, yeah, obviously, you know they had

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the best offense in NBA history with Garland on the court,

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and I think it was like thirteenth in the league

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with him off And that's not just inflated by you know,

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Donovan Mitchell being there. You look at the lineups of

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just Garland without Mitchell got even better. I think it

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was like a one to twenty five offensive rating.

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Speaker 1: I had him. I don't know if I finished with him,

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but I had Garland ahead of Donovan Mitchell when I did.

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I mean, all three of the Cavs made it all

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NBA teams it doesn't, but I had him ahead of

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Donovan Mitchell. And that was just a huge part of

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the reason why I was because the way he was

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driving offense for everybody else.

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Speaker 2: Garland drives the offense more than any player on the team.

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Mobley drives the defense more than any player on the team.

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But when we were kind of doing like our fake

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goal NBA teams, I still gave the nod to Donovan

273
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because he's the leading play finisher. And I also just

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I really value the maturity, Like it's one of the

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cool things about him that he was drafted to a

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fifty win team. He like out of the gate was

277
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a great score. You know, he was a star, and

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despite all of that, he always kind of looks inward,

279
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right like, it's, Okay, what can I do to get better?

280
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What do we need to do to get over the hump?

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And I respect the fact that last season he recognized,

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all right, if we're going to get over the hump,

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Garland needs to take that step forward. Mobley needs to

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take that step forward. So I'm going to take a

285
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little bit of a step back. I'm going to be

286
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off all more, I'm going to be more efficient with

287
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my touches. I just really respect kind of that maturity

288
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and leadership from Mitchell. But you're right like it. If

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you're looking at the regular season on court, off court

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impact type stuff, you're going to be led to Mobile,

291
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You're going to be led to Garland, right. I think

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that's why the dunked on guys both had Mobiley and

293
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Garland ahead of Mitchell on their own.

294
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Speaker 1: Oh they did, Okay, knew I knew they had MOBI. Yeah,

295
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I didn't know. You weren't alone there the so yeah,

296
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and Donovan Mitchell we talked with this lash year. Does

297
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seem like with Cleveland he's gotten better at toggling between

298
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like separate existences, like reading the room and figuring out

299
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what they need. I want to ask you about the

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Darius Garland injury though, How big of a deal is that?

301
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Especially it's not even just about even if he was

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ready to start the season. We're talking about someone who

303
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is then limited in training camp in preseason. How long

304
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does it take him to find his footing? Is there

305
00:13:45,519 --> 00:13:48,200
any this team has been together the crux of it enough,

306
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but like you are trying to integrate some new players,

307
00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,679
including someone like DeAndre Hunter hasn't had a training camp

308
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:57,159
with this team yet. So how how important is this industry? Uh?

309
00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,480
How important is this industry? Justin can you explain this

310
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injury in the sense of maybe it's not even right

311
00:14:01,919 --> 00:14:04,440
off immediately, but now Darius Garland just has all these

312
00:14:04,879 --> 00:14:07,360
things that just add up. It's nothing really chronic. I

313
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,440
guess the big toe is that considered chronic at this point,

314
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,759
But like there's always these yet hit in the face.

315
00:14:11,799 --> 00:14:14,279
It's the eye, it's the toe, And so is it

316
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,559
more about like, well, let's just see him like survive,

317
00:14:17,159 --> 00:14:18,879
like through the playoffs would be nice.

318
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Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm definitely at the point where I'm like I

319
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,559
can't puff out my chest too much because injuries are

320
00:14:25,559 --> 00:14:27,639
always going to be a concern, right Like, I look,

321
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,759
you're right with Darius, It's not like it's one recurring thing,

322
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,759
right Like, it's not like, okay, it's always a left

323
00:14:33,799 --> 00:14:36,320
calf if issue or something like that, But it's just

324
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,279
it's kind of always something, right Like, he's healthy three

325
00:14:39,399 --> 00:14:42,399
years ago against the Knicks, you know, up and down

326
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,279
playoff series. I think it was better than people realize.

327
00:14:46,039 --> 00:14:48,200
I always like to do the kind of flirting verse

328
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,279
harassment meme with Jalen Brunson because they basically had the

329
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,000
exact same averages. In Garland was more efficient, but he

330
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,320
had that one really bad game at Madison Square Garden.

331
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But yeah, like you know, if we go into this

332
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playoffs and Garland's not healthy again, I think when you're

333
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in the second apron reality like that forces you ask

334
00:15:06,639 --> 00:15:08,840
some tough questions. I think the same thing could be

335
00:15:08,879 --> 00:15:11,080
said of Donovan Mitchell because you look back at like

336
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,759
the last seven years, basically he's always kind of got

337
00:15:14,759 --> 00:15:17,799
something nagging happening with his lower body. Like two years ago,

338
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:19,879
he wasn't able to finish the series against the Celtics

339
00:15:19,879 --> 00:15:23,120
because of a left calf strain. Against Indy he had

340
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a left calf strain, and you know, looking at that

341
00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,159
Game five, even if they would have won that series,

342
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I don't know if he would have been able to

343
00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:31,480
continue playing in the playoffs, Like it might have been

344
00:15:31,879 --> 00:15:34,600
a repeat of the year before. The one time that

345
00:15:34,639 --> 00:15:37,159
he was kind of like fully healthy and didn't have

346
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,480
anything going on with his lower body was the bubble

347
00:15:39,559 --> 00:15:41,360
where there was a break before and you know, we

348
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,000
averaged like fifty points per game. So my big concern

349
00:15:45,039 --> 00:15:48,279
with with Garland missing time isn't about okay, like is

350
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he going to be able to get on the right

351
00:15:49,519 --> 00:15:52,200
page when he gets back and things like that, Like

352
00:15:52,559 --> 00:15:54,519
that's not a concern for me. It's one, is he

353
00:15:54,559 --> 00:15:57,799
going to be healthy in the playoffs? And two, if

354
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,320
he's missing significant time, how do not killed Donovan Mitchell?

355
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,480
How do we keep him healthy? Because even two years

356
00:16:04,519 --> 00:16:06,840
ago when he missed the time with the fractured jaw,

357
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:11,159
the Cavs had an incredibly light schedule. They played almost

358
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,440
no winning teams. I think they played like ten games

359
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,759
in a month because they had that Paris break right,

360
00:16:16,799 --> 00:16:19,080
so they had some time off on both ends. The

361
00:16:19,159 --> 00:16:22,000
league kind of really took it easy on them, and

362
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,120
by the end of that stretch, Donovan like kind of

363
00:16:25,559 --> 00:16:28,000
had something act up with his knee and they had

364
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:29,639
to shut him down from the All Star break till

365
00:16:29,639 --> 00:16:33,240
the end of the season. Like it just carrying that

366
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,840
extra load with Garland out there, it obviously had a

367
00:16:36,879 --> 00:16:38,519
bit of a wear and tear effect on him. So

368
00:16:39,159 --> 00:16:42,200
my whole thinking is, all right, we're trying to manage

369
00:16:42,279 --> 00:16:45,440
Alonzo Ball's health so that he's healthy in the playoffs.

370
00:16:45,519 --> 00:16:48,240
We got to keep Mitchell healthy. We're gonna need some

371
00:16:48,279 --> 00:16:50,320
guys to step up here at the start of the season,

372
00:16:50,639 --> 00:16:53,279
you know, depending on how much time Darius is missing.

373
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,320
Speaker 1: On the Lonzo ballfront, there's obviously the injury concerns, and

374
00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,559
then keeping him on a minute's cap, what do you

375
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,519
think he'd he does most for this team or how

376
00:17:01,559 --> 00:17:03,960
do you even see them, you know, deploying him.

377
00:17:04,599 --> 00:17:08,759
Speaker 2: I think off ball connective playmaker is going to be

378
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:10,799
kind of his main role. I think he's going to

379
00:17:10,799 --> 00:17:12,839
be someone that helps them increase the tempo. I think

380
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:14,759
that's going to be incredibly important in kind of those

381
00:17:14,759 --> 00:17:18,359
second unit minutes. I think, as I said before, being

382
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,759
able to play some smaller lineups with him, like being

383
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,039
able to have Sam Marylyn shooting guard and Lonzo Ball

384
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,200
kind of playing as small forward. I think that that's

385
00:17:27,279 --> 00:17:29,319
going to be something that gives them some juice to

386
00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:33,200
those second line, second unit lineups. The nice thing about

387
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,599
the Cavs when they are fully healthy is you are

388
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,799
able to have one of Garland and Mitchell out there,

389
00:17:37,839 --> 00:17:40,480
one of mobleyan Allen out there, and it really makes

390
00:17:40,559 --> 00:17:43,200
lineup construction easy. I think that's one of the reasons

391
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,359
why they are so good in the regular season is

392
00:17:45,759 --> 00:17:48,480
when you have like no real drop off when you're

393
00:17:48,519 --> 00:17:52,039
going to like your second and third lineups, it's really

394
00:17:52,079 --> 00:17:54,920
really hard for teams to keep up to that for

395
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,400
forty eight minutes. So I think a Lonzo is someone

396
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,720
that really helps when you're staggering Garland and Mitchell, maybe

397
00:18:01,759 --> 00:18:04,160
even someone that you close with, like I wouldn't be

398
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:08,119
shocked to see them go Darland Mitchell, Lonzo DeAndre Hunter,

399
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:12,519
and Evan Mobley at times Like there's just a lot

400
00:18:12,559 --> 00:18:15,079
of different things you can do to help kind of

401
00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,640
take some pressure off of Garland and Mitchell.

402
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,079
Speaker 1: Evan Mobley time before we get into like what we're

403
00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,200
kind of expecting from him. When you look at last year,

404
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,079
which was just to me, easily his best or most

405
00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,359
well rounded offensive season. What I don't even want to

406
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,200
say what stood out? What was something maybe that kind

407
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,279
of flew under the radar that he didn't receive enough

408
00:18:33,319 --> 00:18:34,480
credit for doing.

409
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:40,759
Speaker 2: Man, you know, maybe it's just like that he was

410
00:18:40,799 --> 00:18:43,160
able to check so many boxes because like our debate

411
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,440
last offseason was would you prefer for him to add

412
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,079
a handle or an outside shot? And I was always

413
00:18:50,079 --> 00:18:51,960
team handle. I was like, you know, the handle is

414
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,400
just gonna let him act as so many many different things.

415
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,359
It's going to cause some gravity because defenders aren't going

416
00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,680
to be They're not going to lay off him the

417
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,200
same way because he's able to put the ball on

418
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,359
the floor. You don't want someone that big coming at

419
00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,440
you with momentum. It's like the Yannis principle, right, Like

420
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,400
nobody treats them like Draymond Green because I'm not going

421
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,559
to give that guy a head of steam. So I

422
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,000
was always team handle. But the fact that he added

423
00:19:15,039 --> 00:19:18,279
the handle and the jump shot is just an insane

424
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:23,839
like he is a supercomputer, like the processing speed with him.

425
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,319
He's such an intelligent player on both ends of the core.

426
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,319
If you guys want to watch like his defensive highlight

427
00:19:29,319 --> 00:19:34,640
clips focus on how often the Cavs retain possession. Every

428
00:19:34,839 --> 00:19:38,319
single block shot is basically a turnover because he's either

429
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,200
keeping it himself or he's batting it to a teammate,

430
00:19:41,279 --> 00:19:43,440
like he's never throwing it into like the tenth row.

431
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,720
They retain possession and start a fast break on almost

432
00:19:47,759 --> 00:19:50,440
every every emin mobiley block and steal, Like I know,

433
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,759
we use stocks as shorthand they are literally stocks because

434
00:19:53,759 --> 00:19:56,960
they're blocks and steals at the same time, like he is.

435
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,240
The rate with which he's improved, you know, the way

436
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,359
that he's kind of changed the fortunes of the team

437
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,880
is staggering, Like they were a bad defensive team before

438
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,400
they drafted him. As soon as they drafted him, it's

439
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,160
just year after year they're going to be a good

440
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,920
defensive team. And last year the other step forward that

441
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,799
he took was you know, in the past, maybe you

442
00:20:17,799 --> 00:20:21,240
could kind of say, hey, you know, these individual lineups

443
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,279
where it's just him and not Jared Allen, like they

444
00:20:23,279 --> 00:20:26,279
don't hold up defensively the same way they got better,

445
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:28,759
Like they got better with him at the five on

446
00:20:28,799 --> 00:20:30,599
the defensive end, like he was able to hold his

447
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,599
own there and you know, I just I think all around,

448
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:36,839
he was able to improve his game in a ton

449
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:37,519
of ways.

450
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, this Trailedolf too, I think maybe towards the end

451
00:20:41,319 --> 00:20:43,319
or middle of the season, but he really got better

452
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,960
at finishing through contact, had his best season there when

453
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,119
you're looking at the people index has that metric too,

454
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,440
but you could even just feel it while watching him.

455
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,160
But to that end, what is the next Evan Mobley Frontier?

456
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,359
Then when this guy right now feels like he's already

457
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,759
close to being everything in the kitchen sink, I think.

458
00:20:59,759 --> 00:21:02,079
Speaker 2: Some of it is on him and some of it's

459
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,440
on the team, Like when I look at you know,

460
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:06,680
going away from him in the clutch time. You know,

461
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,559
I think it was so easy to rely on Darius

462
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,920
and Donovan in the regular season in those situations because

463
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,039
they delivered, Like Darius when you look at the clutch stats,

464
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,119
nobody was more efficient, Like nobody was better in the

465
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,400
clutch I think that than Darius. He just you know,

466
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,759
they didn't play as many clutch games as other teams,

467
00:21:24,839 --> 00:21:27,599
but still had the most clutch wins in the league.

468
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:29,720
I want to see Evan involved in that, right Like

469
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,319
it's the thing we've consistently talked about is the only

470
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:38,079
instances in NBA history where smaller backcourts win and NBA

471
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,960
titles is when they have front court initiators. Because the

472
00:21:42,039 --> 00:21:44,559
issue with the Cavs defensively in the small backcourt has

473
00:21:44,599 --> 00:21:46,720
never been defense. Like even if you want to look

474
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,519
against the Indiana Pacers where both guards were hobbled, and

475
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,200
you know, Mobiley's got a high end close sprain, you're

476
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,559
starting six to five Max screws out there. You know

477
00:21:54,799 --> 00:21:57,079
that starting lineup had a one oh seven defensive rating

478
00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:02,039
against the Pacers. That wasn't the issue. Like, their defensive

479
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,599
rating against the Pacers overall for the series was better

480
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,880
than the Knicks against the Pacers. And the Knicks have

481
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,519
like the prototypical three and D wings Michael Bridges O

482
00:22:11,599 --> 00:22:14,079
g Ananobi like that's the best you can get when

483
00:22:14,079 --> 00:22:16,720
it comes to kind of role player three and D guys.

484
00:22:16,759 --> 00:22:19,640
So you know, defense has never been the issue for them.

485
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,039
You know, going back to the Celtics, when they play

486
00:22:22,039 --> 00:22:27,880
the Celtics without Jared Allen, oh god, they got Garland, Mitchell, Struce, Mobiley,

487
00:22:28,039 --> 00:22:30,720
No Jared Allen, They're obviously going to get Torch. No,

488
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,200
they had an elite defensive rating and the actually outscored

489
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,599
the Celtics in those minutes, right Like, That's never been

490
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,759
the issue. The issue is when your two guards, smaller

491
00:22:39,759 --> 00:22:43,279
guards are the only ones initiating offense, becomes so easy

492
00:22:43,319 --> 00:22:47,200
to trap, to blitz, to make them uncomfortable, to allow

493
00:22:47,279 --> 00:22:49,759
the shot clock to be the enemy. You need to

494
00:22:49,799 --> 00:22:52,519
have those front core playmakers that can initiate offense and

495
00:22:52,559 --> 00:22:55,440
take pressure off of them and in turn open up

496
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,400
opportunities for the guard. Red van Vliet and Kyle Lowry

497
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,039
when they win. You know, you have marcusol, you have

498
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,200
Kawhi Leonard. You have guys in the front court you

499
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,240
can run offense through, right like Steph Curry and Jordan Poole.

500
00:23:07,319 --> 00:23:10,000
You know, same size. Steph Curry is actually smaller than

501
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,079
Garland when you look at standing reach because Garland's got

502
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,799
the bigger wingings band. If you look at like that backcourt,

503
00:23:16,039 --> 00:23:18,400
they have Draymond Green, you have Andrea Gadali. You have

504
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,160
front court playmakers that can you know, alleviate and take

505
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,960
pressure off of them. I think that's what they're hoping

506
00:23:24,039 --> 00:23:27,000
they have, not only in Evan Mobley, but bringing in

507
00:23:27,039 --> 00:23:29,759
a Lara Nas junior and Alonzo Ball and you know,

508
00:23:29,839 --> 00:23:32,920
these really really smart players that can provide that secondary

509
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,759
playmaking in the front court.

510
00:23:35,039 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 1: What do you think is going to be the best

511
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,880
way to channel that, whether it's overall or even try

512
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,440
to look at getting him more involved in crunch time situations.

513
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,440
Is it, let's see more of Evan Mobley is the

514
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,319
pick and roll ball handler? Is it, let's get let's

515
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,400
give him more elbow touches, which did drop last year? What, like,

516
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,839
do you see a pathway to ensuring that they get

517
00:23:50,839 --> 00:23:52,519
Like you said, it's on him to some extent, but like,

518
00:23:52,559 --> 00:23:55,839
what's the what can the Calves do to make that happen?

519
00:23:56,279 --> 00:23:58,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a combination of both. Like I

520
00:23:58,599 --> 00:24:02,000
want to see more like inverted picking rolls with him

521
00:24:02,039 --> 00:24:05,279
as the ball handler. They love to kind of run

522
00:24:05,319 --> 00:24:07,839
those horn sets and double drags things like that. Like

523
00:24:08,039 --> 00:24:10,759
let's get a DeAndre Hunter and Dono and Mitchell in there, right, Like,

524
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,799
let's get them confused on who's going to pick, who's

525
00:24:13,839 --> 00:24:16,039
going to pop? Is Mobly just going to take it

526
00:24:16,039 --> 00:24:17,599
to the basket. I think that would be a lot

527
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:22,079
of fun. I think those nail touches is definitely something

528
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,119
I want to see more of letting him kind of

529
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,279
be that dribble handoff options. I really hope that the

530
00:24:28,319 --> 00:24:30,960
mid range game kind of takes another step forward because

531
00:24:31,079 --> 00:24:33,240
I think that that would make him so deadly because

532
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,240
he is able to get to the rim and finish

533
00:24:35,279 --> 00:24:38,480
with strength from that position. But when you get that

534
00:24:38,559 --> 00:24:41,799
defender second guessing, it opens up opportunities for you as

535
00:24:41,799 --> 00:24:45,200
a driver. It opens up those backdoor cut opportunities. And

536
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,599
I really am excited to have someone like Larry Nance,

537
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,480
who's just like a technician when it comes to working

538
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,279
in that area, as kind of that coach on the court,

539
00:24:54,319 --> 00:24:56,200
and someone that can be talking to him on the bench,

540
00:24:56,279 --> 00:24:58,920
Like I think that is really really valuable from a

541
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,799
mentorship standpoint to you know, bring that out of him.

542
00:25:02,839 --> 00:25:04,559
But I think the main thing I want to see,

543
00:25:04,759 --> 00:25:06,559
I want to see that guy demand the ball. Like

544
00:25:06,599 --> 00:25:10,920
he's got to be more assertive. Like I think Donovan,

545
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:15,200
Darius and Kenny all deserve some blame for not getting

546
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,039
him consistent touches and for going away from him in

547
00:25:18,079 --> 00:25:21,960
the playoffs, But he's got to demand the ball as well,

548
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,000
Like he's got to become a more vocal force and really,

549
00:25:26,039 --> 00:25:30,119
you know, establish that position demand those possessions, and you know,

550
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:35,200
I think that's that's an essential ingredient. Like, yeah, I

551
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,240
think he is capable of even like a first team

552
00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:40,480
All NBA type player. He's already made his second team, right, Like,

553
00:25:40,839 --> 00:25:43,240
I think he's capable of being the best player on

554
00:25:43,279 --> 00:25:44,680
this team. And I don't think this team's going to

555
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,440
win until he's the best player on this team.

556
00:25:46,839 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: We talked I think years ago, we talked about even

557
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,440
with the when the Mitchell trade first came through, it

558
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,319
was this is still this team will be actualized in

559
00:25:54,319 --> 00:25:57,079
its best form if Evan wants mobile, he's their best player.

560
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,599
And it's a couple of years later and now we're

561
00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:01,200
here in it feels like he's I think you could

562
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,920
have made the case he was their most important player.

563
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,640
But like the load that Mitchell carries, and he's always

564
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,920
going to draw the toughest like opposing defensive assignment, Like

565
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:11,799
there's there's just a ton of value to that to

566
00:26:11,839 --> 00:26:14,039
have someone who can work like that. But like you

567
00:26:14,039 --> 00:26:15,839
could have made the case it was happening last year.

568
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,960
Now if he's like, we're on the precipice of if

569
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,440
we're not looking, we're not doing this next year and saying,

570
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,680
regardless of how their season ends, that he was almost

571
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,480
clearly their best player. I'm almost at the point where

572
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:26,799
I would be a little surprised.

573
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's interesting because Donovan was saying that even

574
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,880
when they got there, and I think, you know, people

575
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,119
have argued, hey, did you make the Donovan trade too soon?

576
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,440
Like did you make that all and move too soon?

577
00:26:39,319 --> 00:26:43,079
I The thing is, I think it's so important to

578
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,799
see these guys fail, Like I think that's what you

579
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,440
learn from, right, Like, get these guys the high pressure opportunities,

580
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,640
make them learn how to share the ball amongst you know,

581
00:26:52,759 --> 00:26:56,279
three four All Star caliber players, Like I know they

582
00:26:56,319 --> 00:26:59,079
call it the Core four in Cleveland and you know

583
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:00,960
Jared's man and Alstar team and all that. But I

584
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,160
do think like there's kind of levels to this, Like

585
00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:05,359
you know, two of them made All NBA teams and

586
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,079
Darius was like third that missed the cut front from

587
00:27:08,079 --> 00:27:11,000
All NBA. Like it's a bit of a different gap

588
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,400
between Jared Allen who's kind of a fringe All Star.

589
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,279
I think Donovan's always kind of understood that Mobley is

590
00:27:17,319 --> 00:27:19,519
going to need to be the guy. But I still

591
00:27:19,519 --> 00:27:21,920
think that means Donovan's going to be the leading play finisher,

592
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,200
like I think he's going to be the leading scorer.

593
00:27:24,279 --> 00:27:26,759
I think Garland's going to be the lead initiator. But

594
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,319
it's just about maintaining that right balance. And you know,

595
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,519
the unfortunate thing is when you look at the injuries

596
00:27:32,519 --> 00:27:34,200
that they've had in the playoffs these last two years,

597
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,519
where Darius hasn't been himself and Mobiley's kind of been

598
00:27:36,519 --> 00:27:40,240
banged up at times, it's changed the hierarchy of touches.

599
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,319
When you look from the regular season the playoffs, Donovan

600
00:27:43,319 --> 00:27:46,640
will go down from you know, the third leading player

601
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,839
on the Cavs and touches to the first. He's that

602
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,559
leading play initiator. And something I really strongly feel is

603
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,759
right now, Donovan Mitchell, the player that he is today,

604
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,640
is good enough to be who the Cavs need him

605
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,559
to be to win an NBA champion. He is not

606
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,680
good enough to be who they need him to be

607
00:28:04,799 --> 00:28:08,599
to win a championship. If Darius and Evan aren't you know,

608
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,680
carrying their load. Yeah, if Darius isn't himself physically and

609
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,319
Donovan needs to be the lead initiator, he's not capable

610
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,240
of doing that. He's a good playmaker for a shooting guard.

611
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,119
But like you you listen to you know basically what

612
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,839
the Pacers plan of attack was with Mitchell. We're not

613
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,400
sending any help to him. He can score as much

614
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,960
as he wants, but if we don't send a help defender,

615
00:28:31,279 --> 00:28:33,319
we're not going to give him reads that he's actually

616
00:28:33,319 --> 00:28:35,960
going to go out there and make like he's he's

617
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,839
going to get by his guy. He's scored at will

618
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,720
in the paint with with Miles Turner. He got to

619
00:28:39,759 --> 00:28:42,559
the line of time, but he wasn't making anyone else

620
00:28:42,599 --> 00:28:45,039
better in those spots. And you know, I think back

621
00:28:45,079 --> 00:28:47,599
to even Game two where he was exhausted right like

622
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,079
the calf strain happened, he wore himself out. They weren't

623
00:28:51,119 --> 00:28:54,440
able to inbound the ball late Jared Allen, you know,

624
00:28:54,599 --> 00:28:56,640
he had I think it was like twenty four and

625
00:28:56,799 --> 00:29:00,000
twelve or fourteen or something like that on six or seven. Shoot.

626
00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:02,799
You weren't getting Jared Allen more touches when he was

627
00:29:02,839 --> 00:29:05,480
that efficient, when he was that dominant on both ends

628
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,599
of the floor, Like you know that, It's just and

629
00:29:08,599 --> 00:29:11,079
it's not something I hold against Mitchell. It's just not

630
00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:14,200
what they'd ask of him if they were fully healthy, right,

631
00:29:14,319 --> 00:29:18,440
So it's you know, there's limitations when it comes to

632
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,000
this game. But if Darius is who they need him

633
00:29:21,039 --> 00:29:22,759
to be and Evans who they need him to be,

634
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,000
Dardovin is more than capable of being exactly who they

635
00:29:26,039 --> 00:29:28,599
need him to be. And I think that is the

636
00:29:28,599 --> 00:29:31,240
main story of this Skavs And if things don't work out,

637
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,720
it's going to be for that reason. It's going to

638
00:29:33,759 --> 00:29:35,559
be you know, they could never be healthy at the

639
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,359
right time. Darius wasn't able to find that consistency, Mobley

640
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,839
wasn't able to step up in that way. But I

641
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,519
think they've gone through a lot of kind of those

642
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,359
you know, those wins and lessons, and I think they

643
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,599
have enough experience to hopefully, you know, take that step

644
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:52,359
forward next year.

645
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,599
Speaker 1: I didn't actually have this question until I was listening

646
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,559
to you and Carter do your mail bag last week

647
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,519
or two weeks ago, whatever it was. Is there so

648
00:30:00,599 --> 00:30:02,519
it does seem is there a question who's going to

649
00:30:02,559 --> 00:30:05,119
be starting at the three for them, whether it's Max

650
00:30:05,119 --> 00:30:07,640
Sdruce or DeAndre Hunter? And if so, like, who is

651
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,440
the one that you would prefer to see them go with?

652
00:30:10,519 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: I don't have a strong preference. I think there is

653
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:14,599
a bit of a question, like I think that's gonna

654
00:30:14,599 --> 00:30:17,279
be a camp battle. I want Max and DeAndre to

655
00:30:17,319 --> 00:30:20,039
both play like twenty eight minutes a game. I'm fine

656
00:30:20,079 --> 00:30:23,000
with either outcome. I do think the best version of

657
00:30:23,039 --> 00:30:25,640
this team is going to be DeAndre Hunter, like you know,

658
00:30:26,119 --> 00:30:29,559
playing alongside the core four, or maybe playing at power

659
00:30:29,599 --> 00:30:35,279
forwarding in some smaller ball lineups with Max Druce. But

660
00:30:35,319 --> 00:30:37,240
the tricky thing is, I do think that there's a

661
00:30:37,279 --> 00:30:40,400
real value, especially with Ty Jerome not here to provide

662
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,039
that bench scoring, of DeAndre Hunter just being that bucket

663
00:30:43,079 --> 00:30:45,640
getter right like he was averaging twenty points per game

664
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,000
with Atlanta, he was at like scoring at that same

665
00:30:48,119 --> 00:30:51,079
rate per thirty six with the Calves. Like that guy's

666
00:30:51,079 --> 00:30:54,720
a bonafide score And you know, it's really funny for

667
00:30:55,119 --> 00:30:57,079
all the kind of focus on the Cavs core four,

668
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,799
Like I think people kind of forget like Jared Allen

669
00:30:59,799 --> 00:31:03,440
makes Caruso money, like he's he's the fifth highest paid

670
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,759
player on the team next year, like DeAndre Hunter is

671
00:31:06,799 --> 00:31:08,799
number four, and I think they're going to really need

672
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,559
him to step up. So I do think, you know,

673
00:31:13,279 --> 00:31:15,599
I don't really care who starts. I think there's a

674
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,400
real value to have a Max out there in the

675
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:21,880
starting lineup. Those lineups have just absolutely crushed, particularly last year,

676
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,799
they were terrific, And you know, with no Darius, I

677
00:31:24,799 --> 00:31:28,960
think he'd brings some secondary playmaking, right, but we'll see.

678
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,119
I the one thing I'll say is I don't want

679
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,160
obviously you're going to have one different starter with Darius out,

680
00:31:35,519 --> 00:31:37,720
but I don't want to change up things too much. Like,

681
00:31:37,839 --> 00:31:40,240
if the plan is for DeAndre to be the starting

682
00:31:40,279 --> 00:31:43,319
small forward, don't bring him off the bench just because

683
00:31:43,319 --> 00:31:46,359
you need that bench scoring punch. Like start him even

684
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,160
if it's Donovan, Max Hunter Mobile and Allen like, I'd

685
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,599
be fine with that. I want people to be like

686
00:31:53,079 --> 00:31:56,319
as close to their actual roles as possible to start

687
00:31:56,319 --> 00:31:58,119
the season and just kind of move from there.

688
00:31:59,039 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: I think I would would prefer to have DeAndre Hunter

689
00:32:01,559 --> 00:32:03,960
coming off the bench because for my two main reasons

690
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,720
would be I think it then gets easier to get

691
00:32:05,759 --> 00:32:07,920
to those lineups that I know that he killed when

692
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,559
you subbed him in with the core four last year.

693
00:32:09,559 --> 00:32:11,839
That lineup date is insane. But I like him better

694
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:13,400
at the four than I do at the three, and

695
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,400
I feel like it's yearly get to those lineups as

696
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,400
a rebounder. We could have a conversation about that clearly,

697
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,759
And then you mentioned I like Strewce's playmaking. But the

698
00:32:22,759 --> 00:32:25,400
other thing is is that it felt like DeAndre Hunter

699
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,039
and maybe he did shift his play style and his

700
00:32:28,079 --> 00:32:30,640
shot died a lot last year, but like, it just

701
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,519
doesn't seem like a coincidence to be that he was

702
00:32:32,559 --> 00:32:34,119
in the sixth Man of the Year running and had

703
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:35,960
the best season of his career. I think there's value

704
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,960
in getting him to go up against those secondary lineups

705
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,519
where the type of game that Max Shrewce plays, where

706
00:32:41,519 --> 00:32:43,920
he's more of a ball mover, and even just the

707
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,400
shots he's gonna take, like DeAndre Hunter is not going

708
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:47,839
to hit the same level of shots at least from

709
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:49,880
the perimeter off movement, like he would prefer to dribble

710
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,440
up into those you know, pull up two pointers. I

711
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,559
just like Max Struce's fit then with the core four better.

712
00:32:55,599 --> 00:32:57,160
So those will be my two reasons. But this team

713
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,039
is so deep and I know it's matchup dependent. I

714
00:32:59,119 --> 00:33:01,079
just I honestly didn't think it was a question, and

715
00:33:01,079 --> 00:33:03,000
I was listening to that podcast. I was like, oh,

716
00:33:03,079 --> 00:33:05,240
Cash fans are talking. I just I had Max Strew's

717
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:06,920
penciled in. I'm not gonna I knew what the lineup

718
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:08,759
data was, but I just had Strew's pencils in there.

719
00:33:09,279 --> 00:33:12,279
Speaker 2: I think KAS fans are some of the best in

720
00:33:12,319 --> 00:33:14,640
the league. They are passionate, they are insane. They listen

721
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,640
to a niche podcast like The Chase Down and they

722
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,480
give us awesome feedback. They are a little obsessed with

723
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,599
a measuring tape. They like they look at Max Strius

724
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,640
and they go six five, that's too small. He should

725
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,000
be like only a shooting guard. Even though it's never

726
00:33:27,039 --> 00:33:29,240
been an issue, you know, like they focused on.

727
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,039
Speaker 1: My army played him at the four all the time.

728
00:33:31,079 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 2: He was like primarily a four. He was a four

729
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,440
on a team that went to the finals with a

730
00:33:36,599 --> 00:33:39,599
six to ninth center in bam Adebayo, Like, you know,

731
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,920
it has not been an issue. I like when we

732
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,680
traded for DeAndre Hunter, I really wanted Hunter to start,

733
00:33:46,759 --> 00:33:48,839
Like I was passionate about it. I was like, I

734
00:33:49,519 --> 00:33:52,119
wanted to see Minace with with him in the core.

735
00:33:52,799 --> 00:33:55,880
I like I like the Larry Nan signing because we're

736
00:33:56,039 --> 00:33:58,160
you know, you might like him more at the four.

737
00:33:58,559 --> 00:34:01,440
I want him playing more all forward, and I think

738
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,279
having you know, Nancy and Dean Wade behind Mobiley allows

739
00:34:05,279 --> 00:34:07,759
you to play a Hunter at the three, just so

740
00:34:07,799 --> 00:34:09,880
that you have size on the court, man, like I

741
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,440
want to have more size around the guards and stuff

742
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,559
like that. But like I do think, you know, there's

743
00:34:15,599 --> 00:34:19,719
a real you know, people obsess about the size hasn't

744
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,199
been an issue on defense. Max is capable of defending.

745
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:27,519
You know, up, He's a really tough defender. I just

746
00:34:27,559 --> 00:34:30,280
don't think there's really a wrong option. And you know,

747
00:34:30,519 --> 00:34:33,159
if you're trying to keep DeAndre Hunter healthy as well,

748
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,360
right and manage his minutes in the regular season, maybe

749
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,880
coming in off the bench gives you a better chance

750
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:40,920
to be able to consistently close with him or have

751
00:34:41,039 --> 00:34:43,280
him as an option to close with. And you know,

752
00:34:43,599 --> 00:34:45,880
I think the most important thing is building out your

753
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,519
best forty eight minutes, not necessarily let's you know, walk

754
00:34:49,559 --> 00:34:51,920
out of the tunnel or have the announcer say, you know,

755
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,599
the most aesthetically pleasing five to start the game.

756
00:34:56,039 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 1: And the other thing with him too is this shots

757
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,880
that he did cut down out of points but still

758
00:35:00,039 --> 00:35:02,639
wants to take like those will be more readily available

759
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,039
in the secondary units than if he's playing alongside Mobiley

760
00:35:06,039 --> 00:35:10,639
Mitchell and Garland, you know, seventy percent of the time. Yeah,

761
00:35:10,679 --> 00:35:14,719
So their defense fascinates me because they simultaneous feel like

762
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,880
underrated on the defensive end. You mentioned a lot of

763
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,000
stuff with their smaller players were able to do, and

764
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,599
then also just like okay, like there's some maybe schematic

765
00:35:22,639 --> 00:35:24,960
issues here, and you and Carter talked a lot about

766
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,400
surrendering soft switches. What is it that we should be

767
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,159
watching for this season from the Calves on the defensive end,

768
00:35:32,199 --> 00:35:33,800
whether it's something you want to see them implement a

769
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:35,559
concern you're tracking, whatever it might be.

770
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,679
Speaker 2: Definitely want to see how much they kind of saw

771
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,679
switch because they didn't do that a ton out of

772
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,079
under JB. Bickerstaff and I just felt like they were

773
00:35:43,159 --> 00:35:47,360
giving up teams like too good of options, like like

774
00:35:47,599 --> 00:35:51,840
it just particularly against Boston, right like every single time

775
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,239
Boston comes down the court. As I said before, what

776
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,360
the Calves do is they use Darius as their primary

777
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,679
point of attack defender. They do not hide them like

778
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:00,440
if it's Tree Young, if it's you know.

779
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: Was probably a breadth of fresh air for DeAndre Hunter

780
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,639
by the way going from Atlanta to oh.

781
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 2: For sure, right, And you know, Darius is kind of

782
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,000
in that steph category where like he's going to give

783
00:36:11,079 --> 00:36:13,159
up size, he's going to give up strength. You're going

784
00:36:13,159 --> 00:36:15,440
to be able to attack him on mismatches, Teams are

785
00:36:15,559 --> 00:36:17,719
going to get him involved. They want to wear him down,

786
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,639
they want to make him tired. But he's going to

787
00:36:20,639 --> 00:36:23,280
be in position he doesn't like allow guys to blow

788
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,920
by him, and like he's going to compete on the

789
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,119
defensive end, right, And that's kind of all you can

790
00:36:28,159 --> 00:36:31,559
really ask of a guy like that. But I've had

791
00:36:31,559 --> 00:36:35,320
these conversations before. We're you know, statistically, like Donovan's a

792
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,440
worst defender, at least in the regular season. I do

793
00:36:37,519 --> 00:36:39,760
think he steps it up when he needs to, but

794
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,800
he saves himself a little bit. But like if Donovan's

795
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,880
out there or Sam Merrill's out there and they're kind

796
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,039
of hiding in the corner, you're not going to go

797
00:36:47,119 --> 00:36:50,239
through the trouble of bringing them into the action for

798
00:36:50,519 --> 00:36:53,760
you know, a marginally worst defender. When hey, you're going

799
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,119
to give us you know, Darius Garland defending Jason Tatum

800
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,440
without any fight. You are going to saw switch and

801
00:36:59,519 --> 00:37:02,199
Darius is going to defend Tatum. No player in the

802
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,079
NBA defended more Jason Tatum shots than Darius Garland last year.

803
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,559
I think Tatum went like nine of twenty seven on

804
00:37:08,599 --> 00:37:11,679
those shots. But it has like a wear and tear effect, right,

805
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,000
like you're going to wear them down by doing that.

806
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,320
And with the cast, they have so many good screen

807
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,639
navigators that I just like to see them, you know,

808
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,639
put up a little bit more of a fight, you know,

809
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,039
change up the variety of their schemes. Maybe the plan

810
00:37:24,199 --> 00:37:26,000
was to do that in the playoffs, and they stayed

811
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,480
with the base look in the regular season, and then

812
00:37:28,519 --> 00:37:31,280
they just weren't healthy, so we didn't get to see that,

813
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,719
or at least it wasn't necessary against Miami. But I'd

814
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,360
like to see a little bit more of that, maybe

815
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,559
a little more three two zone. I really liked the

816
00:37:39,599 --> 00:37:41,760
three two zone with Mobley up at the top. They

817
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:43,840
did that a lot in his rookie year. They didn't

818
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,159
and kind of spurts this year. I think you can

819
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,480
do that with either Mobley or Hunter kind of leading

820
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,599
that three to two. But I just want to see

821
00:37:51,159 --> 00:37:54,400
a little less predictability from them. Defensively. I just don't

822
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,719
think they made teams uncomfortable. I think they have the

823
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,440
capability of being able to do that.

824
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,639
Speaker 1: Do you think they have the personnel to do that

825
00:38:02,679 --> 00:38:06,000
while also retaining the unpredictability that they were able to

826
00:38:06,039 --> 00:38:08,559
inject into their offense last year though, So I think

827
00:38:08,599 --> 00:38:10,760
that was a huge point. Everyone talked about, oh, look

828
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,199
at the shooting, look at the shooting, but it was

829
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,199
just the calves. To me, we're just so much more

830
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,280
harder to predict on any given offensive possession, and I

831
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,480
think that's what kind of made them part of what

832
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:21,920
made them really special last year.

833
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,199
Speaker 2: I would say to do that, two things are necessary. One,

834
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,679
it's going to take some dedication. And I think the

835
00:38:28,679 --> 00:38:32,280
way Kenny Atkinson deploys his rotation, I think you're able

836
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,960
to do that because he nobody has really long shifts.

837
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,840
You're almost able to do what you did in Olympic basketball,

838
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,199
right like when Kenny was coaching with Team France and

839
00:38:40,199 --> 00:38:42,000
stuff like that. All Right, you're going to play five

840
00:38:42,079 --> 00:38:43,760
six minutes here, but you're going to play hard in

841
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:45,559
those minutes, right Like, you're going to play hard on

842
00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:47,159
both ends, but we're going to sub you out and

843
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,599
you're going to get your breaks. I think that is needed,

844
00:38:50,639 --> 00:38:52,920
like you need to get that level buy in from everybody.

845
00:38:53,199 --> 00:38:54,599
The other thing is, I think some of them have

846
00:38:54,679 --> 00:38:57,440
to become better communicators. Like even looking back at then

847
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,440
Indiana series, I think there are too many times where

848
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,199
I just could tell Jared Allen wasn't talking. I think

849
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,920
he and Mobley needs to become more vocal. I remember,

850
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,840
I think it was like maybe three years ago we

851
00:39:09,159 --> 00:39:11,719
talked to Jared Allen at media Day and he was saying, like,

852
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,440
that's not really me. Like I kind of asked him

853
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,360
about being vocal, being that quarterback of the defense, and

854
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,800
he's like, Ah, that's not really my personality, that's not me.

855
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,280
And then like two years later we talked to him

856
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,679
again immedia day. It's like, I'm working on being more vocal.

857
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:26,920
It's really important. It's a really big part of the position.

858
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,440
So maybe that that's, you know, one of those areas

859
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,519
that he can take the can take a step forward

860
00:39:31,559 --> 00:39:35,119
because as the big man, that's your responsibility. You have

861
00:39:35,159 --> 00:39:38,280
to be calling everything out. And I think so often

862
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,199
Jared's almost the canary and the coal mine, like when

863
00:39:41,199 --> 00:39:43,920
the communication is breaking down, when the effort isn't there.

864
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,239
He kind of shuts down, and when he shuts down,

865
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,400
it's not elevating the rest of the team. And I

866
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,280
would love for him to be that kind of like

867
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,599
high energy guy that you know, is not like the

868
00:39:54,639 --> 00:39:57,480
indicator of the health of what's going on right now,

869
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,719
but can you know, kind of booy up everybody level.

870
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:02,519
But I just don't know if he's that guy, So

871
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:06,679
I kind of I want to see more communication out

872
00:40:06,679 --> 00:40:08,239
of them. I think they're capable of doing it. I

873
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,039
think the personnel is good enough. It's just going to

874
00:40:11,079 --> 00:40:12,360
take buy in from everybody.

875
00:40:13,519 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 1: We already talked about Jale and Tyson. Do you have

876
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,880
any thoughts about Tyre's Proctor the jitterbug who operates at

877
00:40:19,199 --> 00:40:19,760
warp speed.

878
00:40:20,559 --> 00:40:24,039
Speaker 2: This is where like me being a sicko is just

879
00:40:24,079 --> 00:40:27,239
such a problem because I got a text from my brother,

880
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,360
like the day before the draft, He's like, I guarantee

881
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:30,840
you the Cavs are going to draft the steel of

882
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,239
the draft in your eyes, And I'm like, after the

883
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,880
draft happened, I'm sitting there, I'm like, man, Tyre's really

884
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:38,920
might have been the steel of the draft. Like this

885
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,960
is a guy you know that was projected a goal

886
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,360
a whole lot higher. Probably not a lead guard, but

887
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,320
someone that can initiate, you know, he kind of blends.

888
00:40:46,679 --> 00:40:48,920
I was actually really curious after they drafted. I'm like,

889
00:40:49,639 --> 00:40:51,400
I don't know what this means for Sam Merrill or

890
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,440
Ty Jerome because he kind of splits the difference. He

891
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,079
can provide something with that ball handling. He is such

892
00:40:56,119 --> 00:40:58,880
a knockdown shooter. He is such an intelligent off ballplayer.

893
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,360
He's really long, he's six', five with you, know a

894
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,679
good defensive. ACUMEN i can see him turning into a

895
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,760
really nice. Player maybe he can be their Nem hard,

896
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,199
Right LIKE i think that's what they're they're hoping for,

897
00:41:10,199 --> 00:41:12,280
for you, know probably not be as good of a

898
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:16,079
defensive player as Them hard because you, are but you,

899
00:41:16,119 --> 00:41:19,159
know a more reliable shooter that can bring you some

900
00:41:19,559 --> 00:41:23,000
secondary playmaking and isn't a liability on. Defense Like I'm

901
00:41:23,639 --> 00:41:25,679
i've gotten my hopes up for him long. Term but

902
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:30,039
when you have championship aspirations and already like no eleven

903
00:41:30,119 --> 00:41:32,760
guys that deserve, minutes it's going to be really tough for.

904
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,679
Speaker 1: HIM i don't want to overromantracize, him BUT i actually

905
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,400
might be a little bit higher on him as someone

906
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:40,559
who could pass after seeing him a summer. League it,

907
00:41:40,599 --> 00:41:42,039
WAS i know everyone's gonna harp on the was a

908
00:41:42,119 --> 00:41:44,559
thirty five points against The kings even when a SHOT's

909
00:41:44,599 --> 00:41:46,159
not going, in like his ability to get to.

910
00:41:46,119 --> 00:41:48,039
Speaker 2: It everything one is pretty it's.

911
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,119
Speaker 1: Crazy and then fifteen assists excuse me against six turnovers

912
00:41:52,159 --> 00:41:55,559
in summer, League like they should probably make a statue for.

913
00:41:55,639 --> 00:41:57,519
THAT i feel, like so like.

914
00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 2: You don't know who you're playing, With like there is

915
00:42:00,119 --> 00:42:02,280
no time to get on the same page with, Everybody

916
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,360
like he does take such good care of the, basketball

917
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,079
and you, know, normally like when The cavs have a

918
00:42:08,119 --> 00:42:10,480
first round, Pick i'll dive into a lot of draft

919
00:42:10,519 --> 00:42:13,039
content right, like well we'll have draft analysts, on, like,

920
00:42:13,119 --> 00:42:15,400
okay who are the likely guys In cavs range here

921
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,360
and all. That we didn't do any of that because

922
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,360
we're like middle of the second let's just find out

923
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,360
who it is and then bring people on. After SO

924
00:42:23,679 --> 00:42:26,719
i was like diving into all the podcasts and the analysis,

925
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,800
after and you, know every single ONE i listened to

926
00:42:31,039 --> 00:42:33,440
Love Tyree's proctor and that was from like before the,

927
00:42:33,519 --> 00:42:36,400
draft where it's like If boston's going to draft. HIM

928
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,320
i could see him having a role On, boston LIKE

929
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,079
i could see him having a role on a playoff.

930
00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:41,920
Team And i'm just sitting there Like bowman at the,

931
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:43,960
mouth being, Like, okay this is red meat for, Me

932
00:42:44,039 --> 00:42:46,360
like this is this is exactly WHAT i wanted to,

933
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,519
hear because you, know it's a skill set that, translates,

934
00:42:49,639 --> 00:42:53,159
Right like if you're talking about a position group that

935
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,079
is able to jump into being rotation players sooner than,

936
00:42:57,119 --> 00:43:00,280
most it's usually a guard that isn't a liability on

937
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,599
defense and doesn't have to fix their. Jumper he seems

938
00:43:03,599 --> 00:43:04,280
like he fits that.

939
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 1: Mold that's why you mentioned the. Draft that was. Stuff

940
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,519
that's MY i still do radio spots IN itsi of podcast.

941
00:43:09,559 --> 00:43:11,199
Spots my least favorite time of year to do them

942
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,719
is around draft time because if you're going on a,

943
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,480
station like in a certain, region there's invariably the question, like,

944
00:43:16,519 --> 00:43:19,440
well who Should phoenix pick at number fifty? Two it's,

945
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,039
like And i've gotten to the habit where it's Like

946
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,159
i'll Just i'd SAY i don't, Know Like i'm just comfortable.

947
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:26,880
Enough i'm old, enough soores LIKE i HAVE i have

948
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,000
not scouted the top fifties in the, Draft, Like i'm

949
00:43:30,039 --> 00:43:32,280
still trying to get through the lottery prospects my. People

950
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,480
so that's my least favorite. Question are you ready to

951
00:43:35,679 --> 00:43:37,079
enter the cookie cutter portion of the?

952
00:43:37,079 --> 00:43:38,159
Speaker 2: Podcast hell, yeah.

953
00:43:38,159 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: Buddy so what's an underrated strength or just an element

954
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,719
to this team that you don't think is receiving enough.

955
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 2: ATTENTION i think maybe it is the, defense, right like

956
00:43:49,119 --> 00:43:51,519
the fact that they are able to play these smaller

957
00:43:51,559 --> 00:43:54,559
lineups and has a unit they perform better than you

958
00:43:54,559 --> 00:43:58,480
would expect with their, personnel. RIGHT i think so often

959
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,119
they have struggled like crazy on offense in the, playoffs

960
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,320
and that has made it feel worse, defensively, Right like

961
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,360
when you can't get a, bucket it's, like, okay well

962
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,800
at least get the, stop and you, know you allow

963
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,679
to score on two out of six, possessions but it felt, backbreaking,

964
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,840
Right AND i think as a result of, that people

965
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,800
have a misconception of what they are. Defensively this is

966
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,119
a really good defensive. Team it's a really good defensive

967
00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:25,280
team in the regular. Season it's a really good defensive.

968
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:27,880
Team in the. Playoffs it played well as a unit

969
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:32,000
even banged. Up they're not as reliant on having the

970
00:44:32,079 --> 00:44:35,960
two bigs out, there you, know at all times to

971
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,559
cover for, guys because they do a good enough job

972
00:44:38,599 --> 00:44:41,079
themselves at full.

973
00:44:41,119 --> 00:44:44,119
Speaker 1: Strength who will be the top ten most used players

974
00:44:44,119 --> 00:44:45,599
on this? TEAM i think we just have the. Six

975
00:44:45,639 --> 00:44:48,400
it's the core, Four Max, Strews DeAndre, hunter and then

976
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:49,639
how do you see it fleshing out from?

977
00:44:49,639 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 2: THERE i think after, THAT i would probably Guess Larry

978
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,719
Dance junior BECAUSE i think he'll probably play more games Than.

979
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,519
Lonzo lonzo will but.

980
00:45:02,679 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: The fact that it could be a discussion, though, yeah

981
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:07,360
a little.

982
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,119
Speaker 2: Unnerving but you, know he got a lot Of, YEAH

983
00:45:10,119 --> 00:45:12,760
i did not play coaches decisions In. Atlanta they were trying,

984
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:14,760
to you, know showcase some young guys for trades and

985
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,239
stuff like. That he was awesome when he, played, Though.

986
00:45:17,599 --> 00:45:19,639
Speaker 1: HEY i WAS i wanted him to just Like land

987
00:45:19,679 --> 00:45:21,239
on a good team last. Year but it was. Funny

988
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:22,719
the other thing that came up with the mail bag

989
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,000
Was cavs fans seeming a little concerned, about like do

990
00:45:25,039 --> 00:45:27,039
we need to get another big? Man like this isn't

991
00:45:27,039 --> 00:45:29,880
basically the, Road like you Turned Tristan thompson Into Larry

992
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,360
NaNs junior and that was your big man, rotation but

993
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:32,880
like you've.

994
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaker 2: Upgraded, yeah it's definitely an improvement. THERE i wouldn't hate

995
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:38,760
bringing in another big.

996
00:45:39,559 --> 00:45:42,159
Speaker 1: But barlow still out. There i'm just, saying there you.

997
00:45:42,199 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 2: Go, Yeah SO i think Probably. LARRY i might Guess Dean,

998
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:56,159
wade like even he's, got you, know injury concerns THAT

999
00:45:56,199 --> 00:45:57,360
i think about, it but, LIKE.

1000
00:45:57,639 --> 00:46:01,079
Speaker 1: I just feel Like cleveland's bench doesn't If DeAndre hunter's

1001
00:46:01,119 --> 00:46:03,599
coming off the, Bench Sam, MERRILL i, guess is? That?

1002
00:46:03,679 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1003
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:04,199
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1004
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,519
Speaker 2: Sam, Oh, actually you know WHAT i should have, Said,

1005
00:46:06,519 --> 00:46:08,639
SAM i Think sam's going to play more than you,

1006
00:46:08,639 --> 00:46:12,000
Know larry or A. Lonzo sam's probably going to be

1007
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:16,480
that seventh. Guy then then Then, Larry, Lonzo. DEAN i

1008
00:46:16,519 --> 00:46:20,519
think that's already. Ten But I'm i'm really really interested

1009
00:46:20,519 --> 00:46:22,159
to see if it's going to Be Jalen tyson Or Dean,

1010
00:46:22,199 --> 00:46:26,400
wade BECAUSE i think What Jalen tyson can bring is

1011
00:46:27,599 --> 00:46:29,079
very very much what this team.

1012
00:46:29,159 --> 00:46:31,199
Speaker 1: Needs SO i think you kind of answered the first

1013
00:46:31,199 --> 00:46:32,679
part of the question of who could you see maybe

1014
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:34,480
rising in the rotation that wouldn't be in at the

1015
00:46:34,519 --> 00:46:36,239
start As. Tyson is there anyone that you could see

1016
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,039
being kind of squeezed because of this depth That cleveland.

1017
00:46:39,119 --> 00:46:42,760
Speaker 2: Has, YEAH i guess it would have to be Either

1018
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,000
dean Or Sam. Merrill LIKE i think if The cavs

1019
00:46:46,039 --> 00:46:48,880
start playing a lot larger and Like Jalen tyson is

1020
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:53,400
able to step up and you, Know lonzo's a little

1021
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:57,039
healthier than they, EXPECTED i could see it shifting where

1022
00:46:57,079 --> 00:47:00,119
you know there's Less sam and you know there is

1023
00:47:00,119 --> 00:47:02,960
a bit of a roster crunch, there or it's going

1024
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,199
to come With Dean. Wade Like Jalen. Tyson, yeah he's six,

1025
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,480
six but he played a lot of power forward for

1026
00:47:08,519 --> 00:47:11,320
The cavs in his rookie yar like it just the

1027
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,000
way it kind of worked. Out he is a menace

1028
00:47:14,079 --> 00:47:16,079
on the glass like. That that guy has such a

1029
00:47:16,159 --> 00:47:19,000
nose for for the offensive and defensive. Glass he makes

1030
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:20,920
such a big. Difference he's he's kind of Like Josh

1031
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,079
harden that. Way and you, know if that jumper is,

1032
00:47:24,199 --> 00:47:29,760
legit which there's been a lot of positive signs he's. Jumper, yeah, yeah,

1033
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,400
yeah only only when he's playing The caves in the

1034
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:36,920
playoffs is that jumper looking? Good but, no It's Jalen,

1035
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,559
tyson you, know coming in coming out of college where

1036
00:47:40,599 --> 00:47:44,599
he's basically like his second year in college he was

1037
00:47:44,639 --> 00:47:46,599
a three AND d, guy and then his last year

1038
00:47:46,639 --> 00:47:49,320
in college he was Like helio Centric Luka, doncic like

1039
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,519
running the offense to now being an off ball player

1040
00:47:52,519 --> 00:47:55,079
that they expected to give like those hustle, plays make

1041
00:47:55,159 --> 00:47:57,599
make the right pass and all. That, like it's just

1042
00:47:57,639 --> 00:48:00,559
such an interesting journey for. Him but a jack of

1043
00:48:00,599 --> 00:48:03,639
all trades kind of role that brings physicality is something

1044
00:48:03,639 --> 00:48:04,599
that this team sorely.

1045
00:48:04,639 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 1: NEEDS i just like to point out in my notes to,

1046
00:48:07,079 --> 00:48:09,239
you it, said, please for the sake of my mental,

1047
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:11,559
health don't Pick Sam merril as the player getting. Squeezed

1048
00:48:11,599 --> 00:48:14,039
and you just showed no regard for human life right.

1049
00:48:14,039 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 2: There that's. OKAY i don't think he'll get, squeezed but

1050
00:48:17,039 --> 00:48:18,679
he's kind of in that mix.

1051
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:22,639
Speaker 1: There so this is to a large extent matchup. Dependent

1052
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:24,119
but what do you think ends up being their go

1053
00:48:24,159 --> 00:48:25,199
to closing unit this?

1054
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,360
Speaker 2: YEAR i think it. DEPENDS i think if they are,

1055
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,440
winning you're going to see two bigs out there and

1056
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,920
Either Max struce Or DeAndre hunter with the. Guards if

1057
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,239
they are, TRAILING i can See DeAndre hunter at the

1058
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,320
four with the guards And Max druce at the three

1059
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,199
And Evan. Mobley i'm really interested to see how that lineup.

1060
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:51,159
Looks there was not a lot of minutes last year

1061
00:48:51,199 --> 00:48:53,360
With DeAndre hunter in the core, four like just an

1062
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,960
embarrassingly small number of. POSSESSIONS i want to see more of.

1063
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,320
THAT i think that's something that they could go, to

1064
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,159
but that's kind of my. GUESS i think it's going

1065
00:49:02,199 --> 00:49:05,159
to be more about what do they need more so

1066
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:06,119
than who they're playing.

1067
00:49:06,119 --> 00:49:10,079
Speaker 1: Against what is one of my favorite questions to ask

1068
00:49:10,159 --> 00:49:12,920
a weirdo lineup that you Want Kenny atkinson to roll

1069
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:13,239
out this?

1070
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 2: YEAR i want to See donovan out there With, Lonzo

1071
00:49:21,119 --> 00:49:29,559
Sam larry And. EVAN i just. It it's just, funky it's.

1072
00:49:29,679 --> 00:49:33,000
Weird everyone's kind of a, playmaker with the exception Of Sam,

1073
00:49:33,039 --> 00:49:34,760
meryll like he'll make the right, play but he just

1074
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:36,960
kind of has that. GRAVITY i think that's such a

1075
00:49:37,119 --> 00:49:41,840
HIGH iq lineup that could potentially be really good offensively Without.

1076
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:45,119
Darius that's something that team is, sorely sorely. Needed So

1077
00:49:45,159 --> 00:49:47,199
i'm just trying to throw as MUCH iq out there

1078
00:49:47,199 --> 00:49:49,119
as possible With donovan and see it if it.

1079
00:49:49,159 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: WORKS i want to see like the weirdest four guard

1080
00:49:53,119 --> 00:49:57,679
Plus evan mobile unit we could, build like is It Lonzo, no, no, NO.

1081
00:49:57,599 --> 00:49:59,760
Speaker 2: I, CAN i can give you. That so that would

1082
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:07,400
Be Craig, Porter, Junior, Tyres, Proctor Jalen, Tyson Max struce

1083
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,360
at the four And evan and just see if it.

1084
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 1: Works give Me, Mobley tyson And strus because then It's

1085
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:15,840
streus And. Tyson give me interchangeable at the four and

1086
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:17,639
Then Sam merrill has to be, there and then Gimme

1087
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:20,519
lonzo ball as. Well we're just gonna remember out. THERE

1088
00:50:21,159 --> 00:50:23,280
i would like to See proctors even signed his deal yet,

1089
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:24,719
though so, yeah, yeah.

1090
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 2: That was part of. It so part of the post

1091
00:50:28,079 --> 00:50:32,199
draft analysis Was proctor's agents were basically telling teams not

1092
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,519
to draft them because they're like positioning to go To

1093
00:50:35,559 --> 00:50:37,599
cleveland Because cleveland was one of the only teams that

1094
00:50:37,679 --> 00:50:40,159
was offering OR i Think cleveland was the only team

1095
00:50:40,159 --> 00:50:43,840
that was offering like a FULL nba contract four years

1096
00:50:44,119 --> 00:50:46,960
for a second round. Pick and he's like to give me.

1097
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 1: There Gimme, Procter, Tyson, Mobley struce And. Meryl that's so.

1098
00:50:52,119 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 2: Funny, YEAH i, MEAN i mean.

1099
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 1: That should just be a garbage time, unit like let's

1100
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,000
just do. It like There's cleveland's gonna play plenty of,

1101
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,000
garbage like be on the right side of garbage. Time

1102
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,679
so let's just let's roll that one out there before

1103
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:06,960
we get to. Predictions is there anything else we haven't

1104
00:51:07,159 --> 00:51:09,000
talked about touched upon that you think needs to be.

1105
00:51:09,039 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 2: DISCUSSED i just mentioned, him BUT i can See Craig Porter.

1106
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,360
Jr having a. Role he had a pretty prominent role

1107
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,440
in his rookie year as an undrafted player with you,

1108
00:51:18,519 --> 00:51:21,119
Know darius missed some time in the start, Season donovan miss. Time,

1109
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:26,239
obviously the backup guard rotation really did not work out

1110
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:30,960
for them because you, know they Had Ti, jerome he

1111
00:51:31,039 --> 00:51:33,679
broke his ankle a couple of minutes into the season

1112
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:36,840
and missed the. Season Ricky rubio did not, play ended up.

1113
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:40,000
Retiring so we thought we had all this depth at

1114
00:51:40,039 --> 00:51:42,920
the position where we're, like, oh, yeah we Got, Darius, Jerome,

1115
00:51:43,159 --> 00:51:45,880
rubio like this is this is, Perfect like this is

1116
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,679
gonna work, Out and all of them were unavailable by

1117
00:51:48,679 --> 00:51:51,400
like game three of the. Season So Craig Porter. Jr

1118
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,000
really stepped up in that. TIME i think this is

1119
00:51:54,039 --> 00:51:56,239
a real make or break season for. HIM i could

1120
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:59,599
see him potentially playing sometime With Darius. OUT i like

1121
00:51:59,639 --> 00:52:02,360
what he. Did he's a really active. Player could probably

1122
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,320
stand to be a little bit better on the defensive.

1123
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:06,440
End the three point shot is a bit of a.

1124
00:52:06,519 --> 00:52:09,840
Question but he is a hard. Worker he's someone that

1125
00:52:10,119 --> 00:52:12,719
you know will go down willingly and play with The

1126
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,519
charge just to get extra. Reps he And Jalen. TYSON

1127
00:52:15,559 --> 00:52:17,960
i think it happened three times they played a game

1128
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,199
in THE G league and a game in THE nba

1129
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,880
in the same, day like it was an afternoon game

1130
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:24,400
for The, charge and then they would go up and

1131
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:26,639
they would play in the actual game for The. Cavs

1132
00:52:26,679 --> 00:52:30,559
like it's, Nuts like these these guys are. Bonkers SO

1133
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,760
i think there's an opportunity here For Craig Porter. Jr

1134
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,039
and might be a bit of a make or break, season,

1135
00:52:36,119 --> 00:52:38,480
Right like if he loses out minutes and he loses

1136
00:52:38,519 --> 00:52:41,760
opportunity to A Tyres, proctor they might choose to go

1137
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:45,559
a different, Position like it's a non guaranteed contract that they,

1138
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:48,320
might you, know factor into their decision making at the trade.

1139
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: Deadline he's already off to a terrible start, though because

1140
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:53,960
he didn't make that weird to line up With mobiley in.

1141
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:57,159
Speaker 2: The Four guards you, know it's it's a devastating blow for.

1142
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:01,119
Speaker 1: Him, okay, predictions how many games games do you think

1143
00:53:01,119 --> 00:53:02,599
this team is going to? Win and where do you

1144
00:53:02,639 --> 00:53:05,159
see them finishing in The Eastern conference during the regular.

1145
00:53:05,199 --> 00:53:08,119
Speaker 2: SEASON i think they're still going to finish first in The.

1146
00:53:08,119 --> 00:53:11,119
EAST i think the lack of depth in The Eastern

1147
00:53:11,159 --> 00:53:13,519
conference is really going to help them. OUT i don't

1148
00:53:13,559 --> 00:53:15,480
know how much Time darius is going to. Miss I'm

1149
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,000
i'm kind of hoping this is like The Gary trent junior,

1150
00:53:18,079 --> 00:53:20,119
incident where you, know he misses like the first eight

1151
00:53:20,159 --> 00:53:23,159
games of the, season and that's kind of. It We're

1152
00:53:23,199 --> 00:53:26,400
trent poked him in the eye in the season. Opener

1153
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:30,760
hopefully it's that you, know history doesn't always, repeat but

1154
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:35,639
it often. Rhymes i'm kind of hoping That darius missing

1155
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:38,440
time ten years later is going to be Like kyrie

1156
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:40,679
missing the first start of the season in the year

1157
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:43,360
that The cavs finally won the. Championship maybe that's what it.

1158
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:46,079
Is we to finally get our Point touard, healthy they

1159
00:53:46,119 --> 00:53:47,719
just have to miss the start of the season and

1160
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:49,559
then this team is going to win a. Championship SO

1161
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,159
i think they're going to finish first in The, east

1162
00:53:52,159 --> 00:53:54,119
AND i have. THEM i think they're going to get

1163
00:53:54,159 --> 00:53:54,840
about sixty one.

1164
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,599
Speaker 1: Wins, wow that's actually substantially how the over under is

1165
00:53:58,599 --> 00:54:00,440
fifty five and a half as we record, this so

1166
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:03,000
that's substantially. HOT i hadn't. Wondered they're just so deep

1167
00:54:03,039 --> 00:54:05,400
that it ultimately might not, matter but i'd wonder just

1168
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,840
as a team in their, position, Like, okay how hard are?

1169
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:11,000
They like they create separation early, On like what did

1170
00:54:11,039 --> 00:54:13,320
the rotations start to look like in late like Mid,

1171
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:14,079
march Early.

1172
00:54:14,119 --> 00:54:17,119
Speaker 2: April, YEAH i think we saw some of that last year,

1173
00:54:17,119 --> 00:54:21,679
though Like donovan career low, usage career low, Minutes like

1174
00:54:22,079 --> 00:54:25,800
they really took the regular season casually last. Year LIKE

1175
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,039
i think that's something that slipped under, radar like everyone

1176
00:54:28,039 --> 00:54:30,400
to see. Them, no they're playing every game like the. Finals, well,

1177
00:54:30,559 --> 00:54:31,440
no they were just.

1178
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:34,639
Speaker 1: They were also just so. Good it wasn't like so

1179
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:36,840
yeah and like will THAT i guess you have the

1180
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,840
knicks and the, magic but kind of after, that it's

1181
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:41,519
a lot of other teams need things.

1182
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 2: To break right. To. Yeah the lack of depth in

1183
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:46,400
The EAST i think is going to be a major.

1184
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,400
Factor so you, know they don't have any you Know

1185
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:54,280
paris or or you, know overseas trips or anything like.

1186
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:58,880
THAT i don't think the full schedules out. Yet one

1187
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:00,960
thing that really on a bit them in the ass

1188
00:55:01,079 --> 00:55:04,679
last year was they had THE Mac tournament and THE Ncaa,

1189
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:07,599
TOURNAMENT i think something else all happening In, cleveland like

1190
00:55:07,639 --> 00:55:10,360
back to back to, back so they functionally PLAYED i

1191
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,320
think it was twenty two games in a row where

1192
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:14,280
they never played in the same city, twice like it's

1193
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:18,440
basically a twenty two game road. Trip AND i think

1194
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,719
it extended even further than. That it was like basically

1195
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:24,480
Like february And march where they almost never played in

1196
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:27,360
the same. City like even the games In cleveland were

1197
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,320
basically like a road game where you're leaving the night that.

1198
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:33,599
Night so that was kind of a little bit of

1199
00:55:33,599 --> 00:55:36,480
their late season. SLIDE i haven't seen anything like that,

1200
00:55:36,599 --> 00:55:39,079
yet BUT i think that was one of those things

1201
00:55:39,079 --> 00:55:42,119
that just really kind of tied this team. Out AND

1202
00:55:42,119 --> 00:55:44,440
i think you saw it with some of the numbers

1203
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:45,760
with the guards at that.

1204
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,559
Speaker 1: Point is there and anyone who listened to The Chase

1205
00:55:48,599 --> 00:55:50,880
down episode THAT i did with you will have this

1206
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,840
will be, Spoiled but is there a contender in The

1207
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:57,199
east that particularly worries you or fascinates. You as a

1208
00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:58,800
matchup For, CLEVELAND.

1209
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,559
Speaker 2: I Think orlando probably is best equipped to give them a.

1210
00:56:01,599 --> 00:56:05,960
TEST i think if The Desmond bane thing works and If, Paalo,

1211
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:09,079
Bank carol And Franz wagner can be primary, initiators WHICH

1212
00:56:09,079 --> 00:56:12,199
i think is What orlando's banking on rather than getting

1213
00:56:12,199 --> 00:56:16,760
a traditional point, GUARD i think that THEY i think

1214
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:18,960
they're capable of being The cavs in this. SERIES i

1215
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:20,719
think The caves would have to you, know play down,

1216
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:22,760
level which we've seen them do quite a few. TIMES

1217
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:24,280
i think The magic would have to have a lot

1218
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:26,519
of things go right and stay. Healthy they have a

1219
00:56:26,559 --> 00:56:29,400
lot of, questions you, know for in the health department as.

1220
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:32,199
Well BUT i just, think you, know from a matchup,

1221
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:35,440
standpoint they can make it ugly against. Anyone we saw

1222
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:37,920
them do that Against boston even without their best defensive.

1223
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:41,000
PLAYER i think that they have a lot of room

1224
00:56:41,039 --> 00:56:43,159
for internal. GROWTH i Think polo can, be you, know

1225
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,320
an ALL nba player for, sure and when you have

1226
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:48,320
that kind of a, MIX i think you can be

1227
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:49,719
a dangerous team that can upset.

1228
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:52,679
Speaker 1: Anybody if they end up being like second in The

1229
00:56:52,679 --> 00:56:54,920
east during the regular. SEASON i just won't be. SURPRISED

1230
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:57,159
i assume it's The, knicks but it wouldn't shock me

1231
00:56:57,159 --> 00:56:57,639
if it's just.

1232
00:56:57,800 --> 00:56:59,760
Speaker 2: Stay on the other side of the. Bracket but that's

1233
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:00,400
all one.

1234
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 1: For the second or third is what you're rooting, For,

1235
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:03,119
yes second or?

1236
00:57:03,159 --> 00:57:05,840
Speaker 2: Third you, know or you know if The calves are

1237
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:09,599
or second or third be the. Way, yeah JUST i

1238
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:11,960
don't want to see you before The Eastern conference. Finals

1239
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:15,320
if we have to see, you then we. Will i'm

1240
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:17,840
we're gonna have to, find, like you, know a magic

1241
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:20,360
person to come on BECAUSE i don't think that team

1242
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:23,599
is going anywhere anytime. Soon we don't have our default

1243
00:57:23,639 --> 00:57:24,880
magic guests yet for the.

1244
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,559
Speaker 1: Podcast AND i think you put it perfectly the other

1245
00:57:27,679 --> 00:57:29,920
day when you just said anytime you play The, magic

1246
00:57:30,119 --> 00:57:32,840
especially in a playoff series that's gonna last six or seven,

1247
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:36,119
games win or, lose you're just going to feel it

1248
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:38,480
leading to the next you're going to it's.

1249
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 2: Going to have an effect on the next. Series it's

1250
00:57:40,679 --> 00:57:44,400
it's like the opposite of kind of back in the

1251
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,760
day where The calves would always play like The raptors

1252
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:49,239
on the way to play The, warriors and Like game

1253
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:51,519
one against The. Warriors you would always lose because it

1254
00:57:51,639 --> 00:57:54,000
was just such a level up from you, know embarrassing The,

1255
00:57:54,079 --> 00:57:56,280
raptors where you, know you're throwing the ball off the

1256
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:58,639
backboard and you're basically Like globe chottering it, up and

1257
00:57:58,679 --> 00:58:02,199
it's like, right, Right basketball is. Hard sometimes we have to,

1258
00:58:02,239 --> 00:58:05,360
Focus we have to you, know kind of bunker down,

1259
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,800
here and you, know we really give an effort. Here

1260
00:58:09,079 --> 00:58:09,840
this is In toronto.

1261
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:13,639
Speaker 1: Anymore what a bookend by? You you started off the

1262
00:58:13,639 --> 00:58:16,280
podcast basically saying that you ended. It that's why we

1263
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,119
bring on a pro like yourself justin this was. Great

1264
00:58:19,159 --> 00:58:22,079
are you able just to tell our, listeners, subscribers viewers

1265
00:58:22,119 --> 00:58:24,920
where they can find you in all the fantastic work

1266
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:25,599
that you put. Out.

1267
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely you guys know where to find. Podcasts you

1268
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:30,880
found this. One wherever you found this, one you can

1269
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,920
find The Chase. Down we are available on every single.

1270
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:37,440
App we also go live on The cavs YouTube channel

1271
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:39,800
once a week in the off, season twice a week

1272
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:42,360
during the. Season you can find me On twitter At

1273
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:44,400
calves AND i slap The calves In. Canada you'll find

1274
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:45,920
me There Calves.

1275
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 1: Annita it's gonna remember.

1276
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 2: It last Year nobody and.

1277
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 1: The niche podcast that's also on The cavs YouTube. Channel

1278
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:52,960
that is a that's a very oxymorotic thing to.

1279
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,599
Speaker 2: SAY i think it's still. Niche hell, man it's you guys.

1280
00:58:55,679 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 1: Do you're. Great it's specific and they give you so

1281
00:58:59,559 --> 00:59:01,440
much of a rope when it comes to the things

1282
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:03,519
that you guys talk. About so that's WHY i would

1283
00:59:03,519 --> 00:59:05,440
even advocate for. More so you have people Like justin

1284
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,800
And carter saying these really analytical and can be critical

1285
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:10,840
things on The cave YouTube. CHANNEL i think that's.

1286
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 2: Excellent so they it's it's been. Unbelievable, Man like we

1287
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:16,719
WERE i think we're going into year five of this

1288
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:20,960
partnership and like we're. Not we don't get notes on

1289
00:59:21,159 --> 00:59:23,559
like the podcast and the, content, Right like they trust

1290
00:59:23,639 --> 00:59:26,199
us to be. Respectful they they told us going, In,

1291
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:28,440
hey we were not trying to change the, pod like

1292
00:59:28,519 --> 00:59:31,639
do what you guys, do and LIKE i feel like

1293
00:59:31,679 --> 00:59:34,000
an extra set of, responsibility like obviously you know we're

1294
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:36,519
going live on the cabs YouTube, channel like especially going

1295
00:59:36,639 --> 00:59:38,639
my post. Game, SORRY i know we were trying to

1296
00:59:38,639 --> 00:59:42,360
wrap this, up but like you, KNOW i feel like

1297
00:59:43,079 --> 00:59:45,280
it almost makes me a better fan and there's like

1298
00:59:45,559 --> 00:59:47,840
a little bit of a detachment because you can't be as.

1299
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:50,679
Emotional But i'm, LIKE i want to contextualize, this so,

1300
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:54,239
like let me say What i'm, thinking what my read

1301
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:57,280
on this situation. Is and, also you, know give The

1302
00:59:57,320 --> 00:59:59,920
Devil's advocates, side, like let's think about this whole pick.

1303
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,159
Sure AND i think it's made the podcast better rather

1304
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:06,400
than like stifled. Us And i'm super appreciative that they've

1305
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:08,760
given us that freedom they've been.

1306
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:12,079
Speaker 1: DIRECTED i still listen so AND i have a thing

1307
01:00:12,159 --> 01:00:14,199
WITH i don't love player. PODCASTS i don't really love

1308
01:00:14,239 --> 01:00:17,920
team sponsor. Podcasts yours is great and it stayed great

1309
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:19,880
from its inception until. Now so thank you for all

1310
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,039
the worth of, you and thank you for sharing it with.

1311
01:00:22,239 --> 01:00:23,840
Us AND i, think as you know by, NOW i

1312
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:25,599
will be spamming your dms in the.

1313
01:00:25,639 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 2: Future hell, yeah, buddy