Speaker 1: Well, this is an odd situation. As you are hearing me.
Speaker 1: I am in quebecley Teppe, Turkey on our first annual
Speaker 1: Earth Ancient Grand Turkey tour, but it's the first time
Speaker 1: we don it. Our host is Mohammad Imbrahem and two
Speaker 1: local archaeologists who are part of this Sabatur adventure. And
Speaker 1: so this is obviously pre recorded and you are hearing
Speaker 1: me from a week before. Any hell, how you doing.
Speaker 1: I hope things are okay today. We are revisiting Atlantis.
Speaker 1: When I say revisiting, the focus is on a lot
Speaker 1: of current literature, scientific discovery and actually some clue mystery
Speaker 1: clue information that is being handed down to us from
Speaker 1: would you believe the Old Man himself Plato and we
Speaker 1: are supporting and we are introducing a new documentary called
Speaker 1: The Atlantis Puzzle with the producer Jack Kelly. And I
Speaker 1: wasn't sure about this until I began looking at some
Speaker 1: of the footage. And by the way, this documentary is
Speaker 1: coming out shortly. It'll be out I think in the
Speaker 1: next few days, and it is you'll get the details
Speaker 1: when we do the interview. But over the last few years,
Speaker 1: there's been a number of new claims and new information
Speaker 1: on Atlantis being Africa and a social media influencer, a
Speaker 1: guy named Jimmy Corsetti, introduced a landform that he discovered
Speaker 1: through some satellite imagery and began posting this on his
Speaker 1: YouTube channel. Now, the site and we'll hear about this
Speaker 1: more today is based on research from a number of
Speaker 1: different Greek scholars and it actually shows what Plato described
Speaker 1: as concentric circles connected with a number of canals. And
Speaker 1: what I have seen in this documentary is a central canal,
Speaker 1: which is very very unusual. Now, now as you hear
Speaker 1: our guest today, he will direct you to some photographs
Speaker 1: that I will put up on our Facebook page and
Speaker 1: also a place where where you can actually see this
Speaker 1: video of the Atlantis puzzle. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: I have a lot of issues with this. It sure
Speaker 1: as heck looks like it when you see these photographs,
Speaker 1: it looks just like Plato's description. But the issue is
Speaker 1: that a number of people have gone down to this
Speaker 1: region of Africa and walked among these circular areas, but
Speaker 1: no ruins have been found. Very few, if any artifacts
Speaker 1: have been found, so it leaves us to consider. Now,
Speaker 1: it was there a tsunami that wiped this out, wiped
Speaker 1: out the city, wiped out the country, wiped out, whatever
Speaker 1: you want to call it. The other thing is Plato
Speaker 1: describes it as an island continent, and obviously if it's
Speaker 1: attached to Africa, that's a monstrosity. That's a huge, massive landform,
Speaker 1: and it's not an island, it's a continent. It's a
Speaker 1: huge continent. So lots of questions, lots to consider, but
Speaker 1: it is fascinating. Check out Jimmy Corsetti's YouTube page and
Speaker 1: see what you think, because he's actually been on Joe
Speaker 1: Rogan once or twice to try to validate this. But
Speaker 1: there's no way to validate it. And I think what
Speaker 1: we're getting is a geological formation. But I got to
Speaker 1: tell you that's my guess, that's a lot of other
Speaker 1: people's guests. But when you see the VET, when you
Speaker 1: see the satellite imagery, it is pretty shocking. And if
Speaker 1: there is excavations there, if there is the beginning of
Speaker 1: a consorted effort to move the landform to see or
Speaker 1: what would even be more beneficial is to use lightar.
Speaker 1: This fantastic, very powerful and still expensive scanning technique from
Speaker 1: a satellite or from a plane to scan some of
Speaker 1: these areas to see what is just under the surface.
Speaker 1: If they begin doing that, then the answer will be
Speaker 1: found immediately because you can't fool this technology. You'll uncover temples, buildings,
Speaker 1: and you know if it was truly Atlantis pyramids. So
Speaker 1: we had to wait and see when true technology is
Speaker 1: applied to this area in Africa. So we don't know.
Speaker 1: We don't know. But as you'll hear today, a lot
Speaker 1: of scholars believe that Plato's description of Atlantis has been
Speaker 1: misinterpreted and that the land of Atlantis is actually very
Speaker 1: very close to the Mediterranean and it is. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of clues that have been, as I mentioned, misinterpreted,
Speaker 1: so we don't know, we don't know what the story is.
Speaker 1: This is kind of an exciting program though, and as
Speaker 1: I mentioned, the documentary been in been in production for
Speaker 1: several years because they're looking to find the most up
Speaker 1: to date research and information to validate the claims that
Speaker 1: Atlanta's is in Africa. So today's program is the Atlantis Puzzle,
Speaker 1: and my guest is Jack Kelly. Hey, we're in the
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Speaker 1: is a new documentary that I had a chance to
Speaker 1: look at this month, and it is called The Atlantis Puzzle,
Speaker 1: and I'll have to tell you it's not only very
Speaker 1: well made, but it brings up a tremendous number of
Speaker 1: questions regarding where the island of Atlanta's was located and
Speaker 1: also a time period and also some other details. I
Speaker 1: have with me today the director and host Jack Kelly,
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about this new documentary and
Speaker 1: to give us the details of this new release which
Speaker 1: is coming up in a few days. Hey, Jack, Welcome
Speaker 1: to Earth Ancients.
Speaker 2: Ciff.
Speaker 3: Thanks very much for having me. I'm pleased to be here.
Speaker 1: You're intrically involved in this. Talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: what was the spark that got you interested in actually
Speaker 1: presenting and developing this documentary.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So The Atlantis Puzzle was a film that came
Speaker 3: about almost entirely through chance. So it's probably twenty nineteen.
Speaker 3: I'm on the Greek island of Santorini investigating Acriti, which
Speaker 3: is a wonderful site that was destroyed around sixteen hundred
Speaker 3: BC by an enormous volcanic eruption. And today you can
Speaker 3: go visit out Criteria and they've got a section of
Speaker 3: the ancient city that's been uncovered from probably about twenty
Speaker 3: or thirty feet of volcanic ash. And you know, this
Speaker 3: is a civilization. It was pretty advanced for the time
Speaker 3: related to the Minoans, we think, and you know, they
Speaker 3: had multi story buildings, they had toilets and plumbing, they
Speaker 3: had sewers. Really an incredible place. So I was there
Speaker 3: checking this out with my wife and we're staying in
Speaker 3: a hotel not too far away, and I think we're
Speaker 3: waiting for a taxi and there's a bookshelf in the
Speaker 3: lobby with a lot of like Greek history and tourism
Speaker 3: books and stuff, and my wife just suddenly kind of reaches,
Speaker 3: pulls one down and says, hey, you might find this interesting.
Speaker 3: And I look at it and it says the Atlantis
Speaker 3: Conference two thousand and eight, and I thought, what on
Speaker 3: earth is this? Because it's an academic conference that took
Speaker 3: place in Europe about the subject of Atlantis. And as
Speaker 3: far as I was aware, you know, this is just
Speaker 3: a Kakamami fringe theory thing. It's it's you know, ancient
Speaker 3: energy crystals and UFOs and this and that, and so
Speaker 3: you know, I hadn't brought hadn't brought any good reading
Speaker 3: material with me, which is which is an uncharacteristic occurrence.
Speaker 3: And so I'm sitting by the pool and I has
Speaker 3: to start flipping through this. A lot of it I
Speaker 3: thought was nonsense. But I just happened on two papers
Speaker 3: by this Greek researcher named George Serantidius. And George is
Speaker 3: based in Athens. He's an incredible, incredible thinker, extremely well read,
Speaker 3: very interesting guy. And he was talking about the theory
Speaker 3: which has subsequently become kind of popular on social media.
Speaker 3: Of that there were shots structure was somehow related to Atlantis,
Speaker 3: and it might be in West Africa and so forth.
Speaker 3: And I think, I think what struck me about George
Speaker 3: is that, you know, I studied the classics, you know, history,
Speaker 3: language literature at Yale, so I have a pretty good
Speaker 3: grounding in the classics. And so as I was reading
Speaker 3: his stuff, I said, okay, yeah, this is right, all right,
Speaker 3: this is true, Okay Plato this yeah, okay, that's right.
Speaker 3: He did write that, And and I thought, my god,
Speaker 3: you know, this guy has finally cracked this mystery, and
Speaker 3: that's what the film is pretty much about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really in many parts of this very beautiful
Speaker 1: and a lot of it's very detail. You will talk
Speaker 1: about George here in a minute, but making a documentary
Speaker 1: requires a tremendous amount of research and work. Was that
Speaker 1: your contribution? Did you developed the screenplay for the actual
Speaker 1: documentary and talk a little bit about you mentioned George,
Speaker 1: but also the other components that make up this documentary.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, so this is anytime you're you're looking to
Speaker 3: make a film, it's it's a challenge, right, And if
Speaker 3: you go back and watch the kind of the extra
Speaker 3: features on a lot of movies and the making of
Speaker 3: type of things, there's always people saying, you know, we
Speaker 3: didn't have enough time, we didn't have enough money, and
Speaker 3: this happened, and then you know, Harrison Ford got sick,
Speaker 3: and then you know so and so broke their leg,
Speaker 3: and you know, all these kind of things happened. So
Speaker 3: when you're when you're doing a research for a film,
Speaker 3: especially a documentary, you have to be really careful. Because
Speaker 3: I was very taken in by George's ideas, but then
Speaker 3: I thought, okay, we really got to fact check this
Speaker 3: stuff because it's almost like when you get a really
Speaker 3: good opportunity, you don't want to blow it. So I
Speaker 3: thought this might I might have in my in my
Speaker 3: hands possibly you know, maybe eighty five percent of the
Speaker 3: solution to this ancient mystery.
Speaker 2: I have to do justice to this.
Speaker 3: So this is reflected in the film where we go
Speaker 3: back and we look at well through most of human
Speaker 3: history before writing, people communicated orally, and they communicated through story,
Speaker 3: and they communicated through myth, So what's myth all about?
Speaker 3: And then we also took a look at what's Serenttitous's theory?
Speaker 3: How do you get around to that? And you know,
Speaker 3: I'll call it a passing familiarity with ancient Greek. I
Speaker 3: say Latin in college, but it's you know, the grammar
Speaker 3: is not too dissimilar. So I can read a little
Speaker 3: bit of ancient Greek and I can look up stuff
Speaker 3: that I don't know. So the other thing, there's other
Speaker 3: major pieces, right, because what we do in the film
Speaker 3: is we go through and we examine what are the
Speaker 3: stated elements of the atlant to Smith in which takes
Speaker 3: place in two books written by Plato, the Tomatos and
Speaker 3: the critius, and then we look at what's implied, right,
Speaker 3: what are the implications? What are we reading between the lines?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: If I say, you know, Cliff flew across the country,
Speaker 3: the implication is that Cliff has some means of air
Speaker 3: transportation at its disposal, Right, So you have to really
Speaker 3: look into that and think and think pretty carefully. And
Speaker 3: then you know. The last component is the philosophy of Plato.
Speaker 3: And this is where I think a lot of almost
Speaker 3: every theory that I encounter about stuff like Atlantis or
Speaker 3: other kind of ancient mysteries seems to fall flat because
Speaker 3: a lot of these people don't speak ancient Greek, they
Speaker 3: don't know what the original writing says. They're not well
Speaker 3: versed in history, so they don't see the analogies.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: It's like the Wizard of Oz was supposedly, you know,
Speaker 3: had a parable connection with the gold Standard, and I
Speaker 3: forget if it was William Jennings Bryan or who it was,
Speaker 3: But if you didn't know that, or if you didn't
Speaker 3: been taking American history, you just think it was this
Speaker 3: nice story about a ten man, a lion, and a
Speaker 3: nice girl, and you know, all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: Right, exactly Serenttetis comes off as a scholar. You don't
Speaker 1: identify him as a scholar, but what he contributes to
Speaker 1: this whole journey is pretty substantial. He is taking the
Speaker 1: original Greek writing of Plato and in many ways saying
Speaker 1: that Plato meant a whole different objective. Talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about that, and this is a very very core
Speaker 1: part of this documentary is this reinterpretation of these two
Speaker 1: documents that identify Atlantis.
Speaker 3: Right, And this is one of the most exciting parts
Speaker 3: of this story to me. Is George, you know, is
Speaker 3: educated as an engineer.
Speaker 2: He is Greek.
Speaker 3: He speaks ancient Greek, and he learned it, you know,
Speaker 3: growing up in school. So you know, he is a
Speaker 3: very logical guy. So I think for George, he was
Speaker 3: also a guy who really loved the classics, and I
Speaker 3: think it disturbed him or can perplexed him. I'll say
Speaker 3: that Plato, who's a master logician, right, would be writing
Speaker 3: what a lot of people think is a fairy tale,
Speaker 3: right or in academia they say, well, you know, it's
Speaker 3: a sort of simple allegory. The Atlantians were bad, they
Speaker 3: committed wars, and so the god has destroyed them because
Speaker 3: they had Hubris, right. I mean, that's that's very basic.
Speaker 3: The thing I would like to challenge both the academics
Speaker 3: and for theorists on is you got to remember who
Speaker 3: you're dealing with here. This is not just some guy.
Speaker 3: He's not an archaeologist, he's not a historian. He's one
Speaker 3: of maybe the half dozen greatest philosophers in the history
Speaker 3: of the human race. The danger is you and I
Speaker 3: think we know better than Plato. And that is where
Speaker 3: a lot of people got caught up. George, I think
Speaker 3: took the opposite tech. He said, I'm not getting something here.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's not Plato who's wrong. Maybe it's me and
Speaker 3: other people. So when Serantitis went back to look at
Speaker 3: this myth and he's very interested in mythology, and I'll
Speaker 3: give you just a quick sidebar cliff that I think
Speaker 3: will appeal to people. So here's an example of Sarantidus's work,
Speaker 3: his amateur work. He's an amateur scholar. Right, I'll say
Speaker 3: he's a professional engineer, so deeply logical guy. He's a sailor.
Speaker 3: He you know, has a home out on one of
Speaker 3: the Greek islands. Right, he lives in Athens. He sails
Speaker 3: back and forth. So in the Odyssey, there's a part
Speaker 3: which is which was written by Folmer. For those who
Speaker 3: don't know, it's one of the two major epics of
Speaker 3: the ancient Greek world. Deals with the Greek hero Odysseus
Speaker 3: trying to get back home from the Trojan War. And
Speaker 3: the Trojan War probably took place around you know, eleven
Speaker 3: fifty twelve hundred BC. So Odysseus is trying to get home.
Speaker 3: He has a son named Telemachus, and Telemachus is out
Speaker 3: sailing around kind of the Ionian Sea.
Speaker 2: Well, in the.
Speaker 3: Odyssey it mentions that some bad guys are hiding behind
Speaker 3: a star shaped island and they're going to ambush Telemachus
Speaker 3: when he's on his way home. Here's the thing. George
Speaker 3: got a home in the Ionian islands. He's sailed all over.
Speaker 3: Guess what, look at any map. There's no star shaped island.
Speaker 3: So this is the kind of thing that's stuck in
Speaker 3: George's cry. He's like, wait a minute, was Homer just
Speaker 3: you know on crack? I mean, why does he say
Speaker 3: there was a star shaped island here? So he refused
Speaker 3: to accept that either, you know that it was clear,
Speaker 3: So what he went wound up doing is going back
Speaker 3: and looking at surveys, underwater surveys of the Ionian Archipelago,
Speaker 3: and he realized they're doing some research that the sea
Speaker 3: level was a little bit lower in the Bronze Age.
Speaker 3: And sure enough, there's a rocky promontory off the coast
Speaker 3: of Kefalonia that looks star shaped on these nautical charts.
Speaker 3: So if the sea level was like three four meters lower,
Speaker 3: which guess what it was, this would have been a
Speaker 3: perfect little mini island to hide behind.
Speaker 2: Case closed.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: So I give this example because I want to explain
Speaker 3: what kind of a thinker you're dealing with dealing with here.
Speaker 3: So now let's fast forward. George is now tackling Plato, right,
Speaker 3: and he says, so, once again, something's just not right here.
Speaker 3: What's up with this fantasy? There was no there. We
Speaker 3: don't think there was any sunken conton in the middle
Speaker 3: of the Atlantic Ocean. Plate tectonics doesn't support this idea. See,
Speaker 3: you know, all this kind of stuff. So he goes
Speaker 3: back and he starts rereading modern Greek and modern English
Speaker 3: translations that should be the best and most reputable. And
Speaker 3: one of the first things he stumbled on was it
Speaker 3: says Atlantis. You know, to get there, you got to
Speaker 3: go out into the Atlantic Ocean. And this just smacked
Speaker 3: him in the forehead because he also had the ancient
Speaker 3: text and he can read it, and he says, wait
Speaker 3: a minute, he looked up that section. He says, that's
Speaker 3: not what it says. It doesn't say Okeanos. And the
Speaker 3: Greeks knew what an ocean was, right, And there's very
Speaker 3: solid evidence I could go into that they knew all
Speaker 3: about the Atlantic Ocean. And in the Greek thinking, Europe,
Speaker 3: Asia and Africa is that sort of the known world
Speaker 3: and the ocean was sort of the waters around that, right.
Speaker 3: What what was so incredible and and the guy almost
Speaker 3: had to kind of like wipe his eyes, is that
Speaker 3: for hundreds of years this story has been getting translated
Speaker 3: as it was a place out in the Atlantic Ocean.
Speaker 3: It says Atlantic Pelagos, and a Pelagos cliff is the
Speaker 3: same word that modern Greeks used to describe the Aegean sea.
Speaker 3: It's the Aegean Pelagos. The Ionian sea is the Ionian Pelagos.
Speaker 3: It's a type of sea partially enclosed by land and islands.
Speaker 3: That's what it means. And it meant had the same
Speaker 3: meaning back then. You want to contrast this to the
Speaker 3: Black Sea. You've probably seen some old maps. It's called
Speaker 3: the euxinos pontos, right, uh, euphony or eudaemonia eu is
Speaker 3: like a positive thing Zeno's stranger. Euxinos pontos meant like
Speaker 3: the pontos se that is friendly to strangers, because the
Speaker 3: Greeks had a lot of trading relationships there in the
Speaker 3: Black See. Contrasts that when the Mediterranean, which was known
Speaker 3: to the ancient Greeks as a thalasa like a quite
Speaker 3: large see, and then you have Okeanos.
Speaker 2: So Plato.
Speaker 3: This is the other thing piece I think people miss
Speaker 3: is if Plato's a master wordsmith. He is extremely particular
Speaker 3: about the words that he uses, and he's even he
Speaker 3: even wrote, I think it's a Cretillius, an entire book
Speaker 3: about the etymology of words and language. So what people
Speaker 3: I think are missing is you know, some guy two
Speaker 3: hundred years ago reads this and he's like, oh, Atlantic Sea,
Speaker 3: Well he must mean the Atlantic Ocean, because I you know,
Speaker 3: Humphrey Witherspoon the fourth had never heard of, you know,
Speaker 3: in Atlantic Sea, so that must be it. This is
Speaker 3: the danger right there, Cliff, where we assume that we
Speaker 3: know and we assume that the guy who broke it
Speaker 3: didn't know what the heck he was talking about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the the beauty of Titos's work is that,
Speaker 1: for some reason Plato's books were I don't want to
Speaker 1: say bastardized, but were made to made more palatable to
Speaker 1: Western culture. And when you take these classics and reinterpret them,
Speaker 1: I think this is where the problem is and I
Speaker 1: think this is where George really comes through quite strongly
Speaker 1: in this documentary, is that we've been looking in the
Speaker 1: wrong place and the entire book is truly a teaching
Speaker 1: tool for I guess, either Plato's students or for the
Speaker 1: reader in general. And actually George needs to have his
Speaker 1: own documentary on his interna his interpretation simply because he
Speaker 1: really clarifies so much. Talk a little bit about you
Speaker 1: just gave us some hints about it, but repositioning Atlanta's
Speaker 1: from the Atlantic Ocean to part of the northern African coast.
Speaker 3: Sure, and there's just a slight hint I want to
Speaker 3: drop in here before we go on. I actually have
Speaker 3: this book sitting right over here. Plato's known for being
Speaker 3: a dual writer, and that means which was for sort
Speaker 3: of the common person, and esoteric, which is for god,
Speaker 3: let's say guys like Aristotle. Right, So if you're at
Speaker 3: like Aristotle level, you're going to get a whole lot
Speaker 3: more out of a Plato story. Probably just like the
Speaker 3: people reading The Wizard of Oz who were familiar with
Speaker 3: history and what was going on at the time, took
Speaker 3: something away about the gold Standard, and kids watching it
Speaker 3: are like, oh, look at the cowardly lion. You know,
Speaker 3: he gets brave. So that's a multi layered story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he embellished and he embellished. And this is something
Speaker 1: that I got from this is that this is a
Speaker 1: very Plato's brilliant. He's extremely bright. I mean, if they
Speaker 1: probably if he tested his IQ, it'd probably be off
Speaker 1: the chart. But also the people that he was writing
Speaker 1: for were also extremely bright. So there's a real drop
Speaker 1: off when you get to Ignis, Donnelly and these other
Speaker 1: Atlantean researchers. They're they're they're really falling all over the place,
Speaker 1: aren't they.
Speaker 3: They're sort of they missed the boat. And then I've
Speaker 3: got this. I just wanted to show this book here,
Speaker 3: which I would like to recommend everybody. It's called Philosophy
Speaker 3: between the lines. I'm not getting any kickbacks. It's by
Speaker 3: professor named Arthur Meltzer who recently retired, and it's about
Speaker 3: the history of esoteric philosophy. And basically what Meltzer talks
Speaker 3: about is, look, until about two hundred years ago, esoteric
Speaker 3: philosophy was like a non controversial thing. Everyone assumed that
Speaker 3: philosophers and thinkers were writing on kind of multi multiple levels, right,
Speaker 3: And in the last couple of hundred years, maybe post Enlightenment,
Speaker 3: everyone's just like, oh, it says this, that's what it means, right, right,
Speaker 3: And and nuance and subtlety have been lost. And I
Speaker 3: think that's also a hallmark of our modern discourse, where
Speaker 3: subtlety and irony and things like that, you're gonna you're
Speaker 3: gonna get canceled, you're gonna get thrown out people. People
Speaker 3: seem to have missed somehow we've we've taken a step
Speaker 3: back in our thinking, which is that's a whole nother subject.
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, So let's talk about Ignatius Donale because
Speaker 3: this guy was really this guy was like the pioneer.
Speaker 3: He was the sort of I don't know what you
Speaker 3: want to call him like the George Washington of Atlantis research, right,
Speaker 3: And Donnelly was a member of the US Congress. His
Speaker 3: book came out in eighteen eighty two, and I think
Speaker 3: it's called something like Atlantis the Antediluvian World exactly. And
Speaker 3: a lot of people today bust Donale's chops and they're like,
Speaker 3: this guy was a dope, Like he was a white supremacist,
Speaker 3: he was this, he was that. Actually, I've read part
Speaker 3: of his book. He's he's extremely intelligent guy, and he's
Speaker 3: covering an incredible array of information. But when was he
Speaker 3: writing eighteen eighty two?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 3: Us, what that was right about the same time Flinders
Speaker 3: Peatree was starting modern archaeology, Right, we had very little
Speaker 3: knowledge about the archaeological record. Okay, so that's point A.
Speaker 3: Point B, Well, what else was going at this time?
Speaker 3: You might remember Troy in my scene I had just
Speaker 3: been discovered right right about that time. So there's this
Speaker 3: euphoria of this idea that ancient civilizations that had kind
Speaker 3: of disappeared and were sort of thought to be mythic.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: Heinrich Schleman goes and starts digging over in Turkey, kind
Speaker 3: of near where it sounds like Troy was and guess
Speaker 3: what he finds, Troy, that's one of the most shocking things.
Speaker 3: And we forget that, we forget that people thought that
Speaker 3: that was just just a myth, right, and there it is.
Speaker 3: So this is this ufour and I think that Donnelly
Speaker 3: got pretty jacked up about this, and he writes this
Speaker 3: book where he's trying to suggest again what's he reading.
Speaker 3: He's reading Atlantic Ocean. He's thinking, there's this continent that
Speaker 3: sank in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, and clearly
Speaker 3: it must have spawned high civilization like the Mayans and
Speaker 3: the Aztecs, and it must have spawned the Egyptians and
Speaker 3: maybe I don't know, Sumerians or Assyrians or stuff like that.
Speaker 3: Why the grasp of the chronology of history wasn't real
Speaker 3: concrete then, And you can go back out just rereading
Speaker 3: one of Flinders Petrie's books, nobody pee. People didn't know
Speaker 3: what the timeline was, right. A lot of people were
Speaker 3: still relying on kind of like biblical chronology. There was
Speaker 3: a lot of ideas about a great flood, and so
Speaker 3: this all kind of if you look at him in
Speaker 3: this context, it all fits together. I also want to
Speaker 3: point out that the theory of plate tectonics did not
Speaker 3: become widely scientifically accepted globally until like the fifties and sixties.
Speaker 3: And you can look this up, like, there was a guy,
Speaker 3: I think in the around World War One or the
Speaker 3: nineteen twenty thirties who had the idea of plate tectonics.
Speaker 2: Do you know what happened to him?
Speaker 3: Cliff he was He was laughed out of academia, his
Speaker 3: reputation was destroyed. But guess what fifty years later, Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: he was right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, common knowledge.
Speaker 3: Common knowledge, right, I'd ask a kid, Oh yeah, we
Speaker 3: learned it in fifth grade class.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: So this is the other thing I want to point
Speaker 3: out about knowledge is that once something's been established or proven,
Speaker 3: it becomes accessible to everybody. But it's very different to
Speaker 3: it's like what's possible, what's probable, what's provable? Right, So
Speaker 3: when you're first trying to prove something, there's like this
Speaker 3: quite hot, burned and proof, and then you know, I
Speaker 3: think one of the problems of modern society is we
Speaker 3: imagine that because we have iPhones in our pockets and
Speaker 3: we are driving around in cars and flying around in airplanes,
Speaker 3: we are the most advanced people who have ever existed
Speaker 3: in the face of this earth. And the thing I
Speaker 3: say to people, and one of the reasons I love history,
Speaker 3: is I say, look, if you're not a better logician
Speaker 3: than Aristotle, if you are not a better historian than Lucidides,
Speaker 3: if you're not a better poet than Sappho or storyteller
Speaker 3: than Homer, perhaps you too have something to learn from
Speaker 3: the ancient world.
Speaker 1: Right exactly. Yeah, Yeah, that's great. I want to talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about the dating, because he in this
Speaker 1: documentary you suggests this civilization existing around the Holiestine period
Speaker 1: or the Holocene era twelve thousand years and before that.
Speaker 1: And how did he come up with that timeline, which
Speaker 1: is I mean, this is what Plato talks about five
Speaker 1: hundred years ago, but there's a lot of interesting interactions
Speaker 1: with a potential earth ending catastrophe around that time. That
Speaker 1: really isn't discussing your documentary, But here on Earth ancients
Speaker 1: is a huge topic because we believe there's advanced civilizations
Speaker 1: prior to that or before the Holesne period. Talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about his unveiling kind of a kind of
Speaker 1: a timeline. You're not really hard, You're not showing hard
Speaker 1: evidence of it, but you do give some good, you know,
Speaker 1: documentary material for that.
Speaker 3: Sure. Well, this is one of the most bizarre coincidences
Speaker 3: in this story, right, is that you know the original
Speaker 3: story just for people who aren't familiar. Let's let's set
Speaker 3: the stage. Tomaus and Critias, written by Plato probably about
Speaker 3: twenty four hundred years ago, so you know, fourth century BBC, Athens.
Speaker 3: The dramatic setting of these dialogues is he got four
Speaker 3: guys sitting around talking in Athens, right, One guy's Socrates,
Speaker 3: and there's three other guys. There's Critias, there's Timaeus, and
Speaker 3: there's a guy named Hermocrates. Right, we'll come back to
Speaker 3: that because there's some nuance there. Basically, what happens is
Speaker 3: the character Crittius says, you know, Socrates, you were giving
Speaker 3: such a great speech yesterday. You made me realize that
Speaker 3: what you were talking about reminded me this story I
Speaker 3: heard from my grandfather. His name was also Crittius. Prittias
Speaker 3: heard the story from his dad, whose name was Dropodes,
Speaker 3: and Dropods was friends.
Speaker 2: With Solon, who was sort of this.
Speaker 3: You know, a historical figure who was a lawgiver in
Speaker 3: Athens set up the Athenian Constitution and so forth, probably
Speaker 3: around six hundred BC. Right, So Critias says, look, I
Speaker 3: remember this story. I got a jog my memory, and
Speaker 3: then I'll tell you the story, like you know, after
Speaker 3: Timaeus gives his speech, right, I'll give you I'll give
Speaker 3: you mine. And so the Tomayis goes on to be
Speaker 3: this whole dialogue by the character Tomaus where he's talking
Speaker 3: about the creation of the universe and the creation of humanity.
Speaker 3: And then the next book, which is viewed as the sequel,
Speaker 3: is called Critias. And in Critias, the character Critias starts
Speaker 3: going through this whole story about Atlantis, right, and that
Speaker 3: book is sort of cut off mid sentence as if
Speaker 3: it sort of was just getting going into the good stuff.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: So this has been a mystery for a long time.
Speaker 3: And the story that Critias spins, he said, hey, look,
Speaker 3: soon after he set up the Athenian Constitution, this is
Speaker 3: one of my favorite parts.
Speaker 2: Most people don't know.
Speaker 3: He left town so that no one could hassle him
Speaker 3: about trying to change the laws he had just set
Speaker 3: up for everybody. So he left the city for ten years,
Speaker 3: and he went and traveled around the Mediterranean and One
Speaker 3: of the places he visits is Egypt, the Egyptian Nile Delta.
Speaker 3: So he's at the Temple of Seiss, which is a
Speaker 3: real place and today is now in ruins. It's kind
Speaker 3: of sunken into the delta. There's not much there. And
Speaker 3: he talks with the priests there, and he's very keen
Speaker 3: because the ancient Greeks saw the Egyptians as an older culture.
Speaker 3: They knew that they had been around for a long time,
Speaker 3: and if anyone knew anything, it was sure to be
Speaker 3: the Egyptians.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: Basically, Solon gets into this dialogue with the priest there
Speaker 3: and he's pretty excited because he's like, Okay, I'm going
Speaker 3: to get some knowledge here. So he starts drawing them
Speaker 3: out into conversation about the ancient pass and he's like, listen,
Speaker 3: let me tell you what the Greeks now. Well, we
Speaker 3: know this, and then we know this, and we know
Speaker 3: the Iliod happened, and then we know before that, you know,
Speaker 3: Heracles and theseus were around fighting minotaurs and stuff like that,
Speaker 3: and before that, you know, there was this flood, the
Speaker 3: couple of great floods, one of which is the flood
Speaker 3: of Decalion, and you know, everything kind of got started
Speaker 3: over the and that's and I think it was about
Speaker 3: this long ago. And the Egyptians just kind of laugh
Speaker 3: at them, and they just make fun of They say, listen,
Speaker 3: sol On, I'm sorry, but you Greeks are dopes, you know,
Speaker 3: we Egyptian you guys. Here's why, because your civilization, every
Speaker 3: time you get to a high peak something, there's some
Speaker 3: disaster inevitably, right, whether it's natural or war or climate change,
Speaker 3: whatever it is, and you guys, you guys kind of
Speaker 3: go back to the to the beginning.
Speaker 2: You have to start all over again.
Speaker 3: And that's why you guys have no idea about the
Speaker 3: ancient past. Your your chronology only goes back a couple
Speaker 3: thousand years. Mine here in Egypt goes back, you know,
Speaker 3: as far as any as far as humanity can remember.
Speaker 3: And we have the reason for that is we have
Speaker 3: all those records written down in our temples and we
Speaker 3: keep them safe. And also here in Egypt, we're not
Speaker 3: subject to massive floods and wildfires.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: We know the Nile is going to flood every year.
Speaker 3: It's predictable. We've built our buildings in accordance with that.
Speaker 3: We know what's up and so we have stability. That's
Speaker 3: another key idea, right, And this speaks to what you're
Speaker 3: talking about about sudden climate driven disaster, possibly by some
Speaker 3: comets or meteorites that kind of struck the northern hemisphere,
Speaker 3: caused some massive glacial lay outburst flooding, and the sea
Speaker 3: level rose, you know what, about one hundred and twenty
Speaker 3: meters over the last ten thousand years. Right, So humanity
Speaker 3: has always been a shore dwelling people, and there's more
Speaker 3: and more evidence for that, and so you can imagine
Speaker 3: how this would have been problematic and it would have
Speaker 3: eliminated a lot of a lot of civilization along continental shelves.
Speaker 3: And we know that this took place in places like
Speaker 3: Sunderland and Shul and even Doggerland a little bit later
Speaker 3: in northern Europe. Right, there are places that are underwater
Speaker 3: and we know people were living there. Right, So it's
Speaker 3: very straightforward. So this story is backed up by what
Speaker 3: we know actually took place.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: There were a lot of floods. There weren't great cataclysms
Speaker 3: or you know, call it fire from heaven, whatever you
Speaker 3: want to call it. And but the Egyptians say, we know,
Speaker 3: we know better, we know everything that happened. And I'm
Speaker 3: going to tell you a story just to show how
Speaker 3: much smarter or how how much more wiser we are
Speaker 3: than you. I'm going to tell you a story about
Speaker 3: your own ancestors that you don't even know. And it
Speaker 3: happened nine thousand years ago, and it was a war
Speaker 3: against the Atlanteans. And you guys, the post call them
Speaker 3: the proto Athenians. Your ancestors defeated these these guys. And
Speaker 3: Solon's mind is blown, and then he just wants to
Speaker 3: hear the whole story.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: So what's remarkable about this is a a deep time
Speaker 3: recognition of cataclysms right within you know, the classical era.
Speaker 3: So people, again, these people were not stupid, right, they
Speaker 3: can look out and say a flood happened here. Greece
Speaker 3: is a very mountainous place with a lot of retigenous canyons,
Speaker 3: and you can imagine when there's a lot of storms.
Speaker 3: And I lived in Greece for a year during recent
Speaker 3: search for this film. You see a lot of flooding, right,
Speaker 3: I mean, it happens and the channels get carved out
Speaker 3: and a lot of water comes down, and you know,
Speaker 3: some of these can be a little bit dangerous. So
Speaker 3: the Greeks were used to flooding, and they must have
Speaker 3: also been aware of wildfires or potential you.
Speaker 2: Know, other disasters.
Speaker 3: So this what's just super interesting about this is it
Speaker 3: seems to line up literally almost exactly with the dawn
Speaker 3: of what we recognize today is the Holest Scene era.
Speaker 3: And the holest Scene is a period that started around
Speaker 3: ninety six hundred BCE down to the present day. And
Speaker 3: it's just a sort of geological epoch that kind of
Speaker 3: matches up with the advent of widespread farming cities, you know,
Speaker 3: stuff like that. Right, So this is this is the
Speaker 3: setting for the Atlantis Smith, and it's just this sort
Speaker 3: of remarkable coincidence. Why did he set the story nine
Speaker 3: thousand years before Solon's time? Was there some was he
Speaker 3: was he making a ballpark figure or were there actual
Speaker 3: stories and myths? And Plato just kind of did some
Speaker 3: calculation or some estimating. Was he a better estimator than Solon?
Speaker 3: And he said, ah, maybe that's about nine thousand cheers.
Speaker 3: You know, how did he know or how how did
Speaker 3: he How would he have figured this out right? Or
Speaker 3: was he just guessing? Was he setting it so far
Speaker 3: in the ancient past to make it impossible for anybody
Speaker 3: to prove or disprove his story.
Speaker 1: Taking a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to
Speaker 1: identify themselves, and we will returned shortly with my guest today,
Speaker 1: Jack Kelly, discussing his new documentary, The Atlantis Puzzle. Will
Speaker 1: be right back. My guest today is producer Jack Kelly,
Speaker 1: who has developed and is about to release a new
Speaker 1: documentary called The Atlantis Puzzle, where he believes that the
Speaker 1: fabled continent is Africa itself. You know, one of the
Speaker 1: things that I was curious about is that you don't
Speaker 1: simply discuss Atlantis is a myth. You bring in current
Speaker 1: satellite imagery and geological reference to this northern African site
Speaker 1: that is a mega lake, I guess you're calling it.
Speaker 1: And this these images have been circulating the internet now
Speaker 1: for probably I want to say, four or five years,
Speaker 1: and all kinds of claims have been made about them.
Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about this this geological site and
Speaker 1: how I think it seems. And I didn't watch the
Speaker 1: entire documentary, but your your guest, your your main figure,
Speaker 1: Serantetus is a little mift that he's not getting the
Speaker 1: credit for this, but that's important if he's was if
Speaker 1: he one of the main figures that discovered this site
Speaker 1: through satellite imagery, or was he one of the early
Speaker 1: adapters or excuse me, adopters of this potential site of Atlantis.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is this herein lies a whole can
Speaker 3: of worms, right, a cliff so exactly.
Speaker 1: But that's what makes the documentary so fascinating is this
Speaker 1: early research, this ability to see the Earth from a
Speaker 1: satellite's perspective, and then the ramifications of the features geological
Speaker 1: features that fit the story that Plato presents.
Speaker 3: And this is one of the most remarkable aspects of
Speaker 3: the story. Is and I think it speaks to our
Speaker 3: modern compartmentalization of knowledge.
Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is.
Speaker 3: Very few people go to school and get a degree
Speaker 3: in everything. Right, So you go as somebody who knows
Speaker 3: a lot about chemistry doesn't know crap about history.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: And I was at dinner party the other night and
Speaker 3: I was talking to an astronomer who works up at
Speaker 3: Los Alamos Laboratories. Extremely intelligent guy, knew a lot about
Speaker 3: certain things about history, knew absolutely nothing about other things.
Speaker 3: He could say the same thing about me. Wow, gee,
Speaker 3: Jack knows a lot about the ancient world. He doesn't
Speaker 3: know crap about galaxies and their formation physics. Right, Well,
Speaker 3: he's right, I don't know that. So I think that
Speaker 3: this is one of the challenges when trying to do
Speaker 3: this is that the people who understand. One of the
Speaker 3: things we look at is what was the real world?
Speaker 3: What did the real world.
Speaker 2: Look like in ninety six hundred BC?
Speaker 3: Right, because we're not dealing with Once you get the
Speaker 3: fantasy out of the way, Cliff, now we can get
Speaker 3: into the real juicinesses. Right, take away the nonsense. Let's
Speaker 3: get down to questions about well what did this world
Speaker 3: look like?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 3: And Serentiedis sets the story and is the spoiler in
Speaker 3: West Africa, Northwest Africa. The way he did this though,
Speaker 3: was he wasn't looking at maps. He was reading the
Speaker 3: story and he was kind of creating a schematic diagram
Speaker 3: of what the continent of Atlantis, the island of Atlantis,
Speaker 3: and the circular island city of Atlantis, three different islands.
Speaker 3: What did those look like schematically? Then he looked at
Speaker 3: this schematic diagram, he said, where am I going to
Speaker 3: find a place like this? So he first started with
Speaker 3: the Platonic story extremely carefully read it, and there is,
Speaker 3: by the way, a ton of geometry and geography and
Speaker 3: directional orientation in the story. Let me ask you a question,
Speaker 3: if you're telling your kids or your grandkid's bedtime story,
Speaker 3: do you throw in like two pages worth of like
Speaker 3: geometry calculations and dimensional and analysis.
Speaker 1: I mean, when I saw that, I was blown away
Speaker 1: that he was able to extract that from the passages.
Speaker 1: It's amazing.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yeah, they're written in a very confusing way. Again,
Speaker 3: you really got to pay attention to the grammar. But
Speaker 3: basically what Serentetis came up with is like, look, there
Speaker 3: was an island continent. There's a sort of pointy island
Speaker 3: shaped land mass in the middle of it, and within
Speaker 3: that there's a place called the center of all, which
Speaker 3: is located in this ringed kind of concentric ring capital city.
Speaker 3: So this is the geography of Atlantis, right, And the
Speaker 3: length of the island continent is supposed to be longer
Speaker 3: than Libya and Asia together.
Speaker 2: I'm going to.
Speaker 3: Drop something else here that's almost word for word from
Speaker 3: Greek his story and named Herodotus when he describes the
Speaker 3: length of Europe. When was he writing a generation right
Speaker 3: before Plato. So Herodotus is known as or Herodotus is
Speaker 3: known as the father of History. And I read him
Speaker 3: in college, and I've read him recently. I've read multiple translations.
Speaker 3: George knew all this stuff. So he went back and
Speaker 3: he said, well, wait a minute, let's see what the
Speaker 3: other sources around Plato's time were saying. Right, maybe I
Speaker 3: can pick up some clues. So the clues basically that
Speaker 3: he figured out led him to say, Aha, look this
Speaker 3: matches up with western Africa. It's not a fantasy place.
Speaker 3: It's on the you know, it's a real map. George
Speaker 3: was so. So if he George was right right in
Speaker 3: the center of the continent, right from kind of north
Speaker 3: to south, there should be a set of concentric rings
Speaker 3: about thirty five or forty kilometers across. Guess what there are.
Speaker 3: And that's the place people call the eye of Africa.
Speaker 3: And it's also known as the Rashot structure, which is
Speaker 3: the rings set into the a drar plateau. And the
Speaker 3: modern country is called Mauritania. It's in western Africa, borders
Speaker 3: the Atlantic Ocean. So this suddenly, by the way, Sarantetius
Speaker 3: did something that most other people wouldn't do. In two
Speaker 3: thousand and eight, he charted a plane, went down there,
Speaker 3: got a group of guys together, went out into the
Speaker 3: desert with altimeters and engineering equipment because again he's a
Speaker 3: professional engineer, and he meketured the altitude of all the
Speaker 3: different rings and like mapped this out to try and
Speaker 3: create a physical representation. Today we'd probably use some more
Speaker 3: advanced tech. But remember this is almost twenty years ago.
Speaker 3: So he went there, put his money where his mouth was,
Speaker 3: mapped this out, and he said, my god, it matches up.
Speaker 3: Here's where the story And I don't want to besmirch
Speaker 3: any but who's not here to defend themselves. But there
Speaker 3: was a movie made a few years after that called
Speaker 3: Visiting Atlantis where this guy said that he just figured
Speaker 3: it out by scrolling through like satellite imagery. Okay, well maybe.
Speaker 3: And then there is guys on YouTube who are putting
Speaker 3: out all kinds of stuff that makes me want to
Speaker 3: tear my hair out because they're like, oh, was there
Speaker 3: a massive continent sweeping flood ten thousand, you know whatever,
Speaker 3: eleven six hundred years ago, maybe the oceans were hundreds
Speaker 3: of meters higher. I'm like, hell, you've obviously not read
Speaker 3: a single shred of climate science because the sea levels
Speaker 3: were lower, you know, I mean it just it boggles
Speaker 3: my mind. And a tsunami cannot sink a continent, right,
Speaker 3: And this is another thing that bothered Serantetius. He went
Speaker 3: back and looked really carefully at the grammar and Georgie's
Speaker 3: read based on you know, a couple key words in
Speaker 3: the Greek languages, that it's not saying that the island
Speaker 3: in this sank. It's saying something more like the ring
Speaker 3: capital city flooded, and the Greek army in the myth
Speaker 3: that went out there to fight the Atlanteans took the
Speaker 3: fight all the way to their capital city was covered
Speaker 3: by the earth, which he interprets as liquefaction due to
Speaker 3: an earthquake and you know, a storm, right, And you
Speaker 3: can see this if you want to look up something awful. Paulu,
Speaker 3: Indonesia at a horrible earthquake a few years back, where
Speaker 3: entire masses of the landscape were like sliding around, like
Speaker 3: you know, what's a good analogy, like a piece of
Speaker 3: ice on a panful of oil. You know that the
Speaker 3: landscape was sliding around, and a lot of people were
Speaker 3: swallowed up by the earth and died. So that's that's
Speaker 3: the interpretation. So one of the things. Sorry if I'm
Speaker 3: getting a little off base, but you know, I went
Speaker 3: so I wanted to say, okay, well, is the way
Speaker 3: that the natural disasters that may have taken place around
Speaker 3: the Rashot ninety six hundred BC is there any is
Speaker 3: there possibility this could be legit? Because when you take
Speaker 3: away the fantasy right sinking continent in the ocean, and
Speaker 3: you replace it with a city that flooded, well, I
Speaker 3: mean we know cities flood, right, I mean Hurricane Katrina
Speaker 3: in New Orleans. I mean that's not a controversial thing, right.
Speaker 3: Floods happen, and they can happen to cities. So if
Speaker 3: there was some kind of settlement in ninety six hundred
Speaker 3: BCE in the Reshot area, how might it have been destroyed?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: So I went to talk to an earthquake expert, doctor
Speaker 3: Scott Ashford at Oregon State University, and I talked to
Speaker 3: him about Sarantius his theory. I said, look, is the
Speaker 3: way that Plato describes these things realistic? And I was
Speaker 3: not totally surprised when he said, yeah, this is this
Speaker 3: sounds this sounds like it could be realistic. You look
Speaker 3: at the a drar plateau, which you know there were
Speaker 3: shots this sort of circular thing, and it's like there's
Speaker 3: sort of this rhombus shaped plateau around it, right, So
Speaker 3: any runoff of water would be pouring in from three sides.
Speaker 3: That right there means there's going to be a lot
Speaker 3: of water in this area. Freshwater fossils indicate that at
Speaker 3: the dawn of the hole scene there was a lot
Speaker 3: of water here, probably in these rings and stone tools
Speaker 3: demonstrate that people were living there. Right now, what we
Speaker 3: don't see cliff is a massive, massive, forty kilometer city
Speaker 3: like the one described in the myth.
Speaker 1: So the next question is what artifacts are there? But
Speaker 1: and it's yeah, I don't want to give away the documentary.
Speaker 1: We we reveal it at the end.
Speaker 3: Watched Atlanta Puzzle dot Com. You gotta check it out. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: But I don't mind talking about this because you know,
Speaker 3: one of the things that you know I lived, you know,
Speaker 3: in my earlier years, I lived in South Korea for
Speaker 3: a year and I was I was about twenty three,
Speaker 3: and I lived in a city in the hinterland called Daegu,
Speaker 3: and Daegu surrounded by three sides, three sides by mountains,
Speaker 3: and guess what they got a problem with the runoff
Speaker 3: and flooding and when it rains. Okay, And so this
Speaker 3: is exactly the kind of dynamic you could have imagined.
Speaker 3: So if there were African monsoons, which there are seasonally,
Speaker 3: and we know the monsoon belt was further north, right,
Speaker 3: that's what led to the whole Green Sahara period. For
Speaker 3: those who don't know North Africa what's today, the Sahara
Speaker 3: desert was more like a savannah with even forest you.
Speaker 1: Mentioned that was much greener and much more lush and
Speaker 1: obviously fertile for sustaining civilization.
Speaker 3: Correct, And this you can corroborate all this stuff with
Speaker 3: Plato's text. He says elephants were living there and they
Speaker 3: were all kind of creatures living in streams and rivers
Speaker 3: and lakes. Well, does that sound like the Sahara desert.
Speaker 3: So this was one of my first problems, and I
Speaker 3: was surprised to learn about the Green Sahara. This is
Speaker 3: a non controversial thing. This is not a fringe theory,
Speaker 3: This is fact. Every twenty thousand years or so, the
Speaker 3: Sahara through cyclic changes in the ear with sorbid and
Speaker 3: the tilt of the axis and all this stuff. These
Speaker 3: climate changes add up and it gets warmer, and the
Speaker 3: monsoon belt pushes north and the Mediterranean monsoon belt pushes south.
Speaker 3: What's that mean? Tons of water in an otherwise dry
Speaker 3: and arid place. And what's surprising is kind of how quickly,
Speaker 3: you know, within a few hundred maybe a thousand years,
Speaker 3: the place totally transforms and it looks like more like
Speaker 3: you might imagine going on like a Safarian Kenya or something.
Speaker 3: There's a sort of savannah with some trees and zebras
Speaker 3: and drafts running around and elephants and things like that.
Speaker 3: So this is one of the other keys where this
Speaker 3: kind of corroborates the story. Well, elephants, where are you
Speaker 3: gonna find elephants in you know, in the ancient world? Well,
Speaker 3: North Africa had them, right For example. I don't know
Speaker 3: if people are familiar, but Hannibal when he fought the Romans,
Speaker 3: brought war elephants over from North Africa to fight the Romans.
Speaker 3: Where was Hannibal based Carthage, that's modern day Tunisia, which
Speaker 3: is in North Africa. So we know that even down
Speaker 3: to historical times elephants were living in this area. So anyway,
Speaker 3: long story short, Sarantiious's geography really matches up. There are
Speaker 3: one or two points where I think it's still ambiguous, right,
Speaker 3: Like this is not this is not a case where
Speaker 3: you can conclusively say everything's true or everything's false.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: We're dealing with a mythological thing. We're dealing with a story,
Speaker 3: and we're dealing with a story nine thousand years after
Speaker 3: the fact, right, So I think it's to be expected
Speaker 3: that some of the details you know are going to
Speaker 3: be invented or modified, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But I do want to just stop you for
Speaker 1: a moment because in this documentary, Serentitius does point out
Speaker 1: what looks like a canal that is at the most
Speaker 1: furthest ring that would allow ships to come through and connect.
Speaker 1: And I don't remember if he said he believes it
Speaker 1: was a man made canal, but it's big enough and
Speaker 1: supportive enough of you know, ship flow. So that's pretty substantial.
Speaker 3: Well, so this is when the things where you get
Speaker 3: into ambiguity, now, Cliff, because so if you look at
Speaker 3: the physical place of the shot, it looks almost exactly
Speaker 3: plus or minus a few percentage points like the ring
Speaker 3: capital city described in the Atlantism.
Speaker 2: But.
Speaker 3: The stone tools that have been found there, so it
Speaker 3: doesn't it doesn't match up. And the civilization Plato describes
Speaker 3: sounds a heck of a lot like you know, a Minoan, Mycenaean, Archaic,
Speaker 3: or even classical Greek civilization.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: They have metals, they have ships, they have armies, they
Speaker 3: have chariots, and you and I know that those things
Speaker 3: don't appear in the archaeological record. I'll come back to
Speaker 3: that until later. So one of the things I want
Speaker 3: to say here is that we can't assume that everything
Speaker 3: in the story is intended to be true, nor can
Speaker 3: we assume that everything in the story is intended to
Speaker 3: be fairytale or false. So it's up to us as
Speaker 3: the reader to use our brains and not just say, well,
Speaker 3: Plato said it. Plato didn't say anything right. He didn't
Speaker 3: get on the phone with me and say, yo, Jack,
Speaker 3: I got this hot tip, like check out West Africa.
Speaker 3: It's true he has He's created a dramatic story where
Speaker 3: characters are talking about this stuff. Remember I mentioned the characters,
Speaker 3: and I wanted to come back to that. Plato loves
Speaker 3: to play around with stuff. So if you look at
Speaker 3: who those characters were, all of a sudden, it's just
Speaker 3: like smacks you in the forehead. He's playing with you
Speaker 3: as the reader. He's laid little puzzles. He's created ambiguity.
Speaker 3: Why what was Plato's day job? He was the headmaster
Speaker 3: of a place called the Academy, which was that institution
Speaker 3: of higher learning. Right, it was the precursor of the
Speaker 3: modern university. Who was studying there the best and brightest degrees?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: What do you think these guys were going to get
Speaker 3: out of a story that was either all true or
Speaker 3: all false? I'll tell you why nothing? Because when you
Speaker 3: think a story is all true or all false, what happens?
Speaker 3: Your brain just turns off. You're like, I know the answer.
Speaker 3: Plato's known for his puzzles, for his riddles, and for
Speaker 3: laying out complex ideas and subtle degrees of meaning. When
Speaker 3: you go back there, look at who the characters are.
Speaker 3: You got Socrates. Socrates is normally questioning everybody about everything,
Speaker 3: and these other other Platonic books, And I've read about
Speaker 3: half of Plato's dialogues. Here he doesn't say, he doesn't
Speaker 3: question much. He just kind of shuts up and listens, well,
Speaker 3: why that's weird to Meeus, what's he up to? Well,
Speaker 3: we don't know much about him, but he's portrayed as
Speaker 3: sort of a philosopher and an astronomer, a wise man
Speaker 3: who knew those things. But Tomaus also says something at
Speaker 3: the end of Tomais, he says something like, well, no
Speaker 3: sane man would believe that the things I've said are
Speaker 3: exactly as I've said them, but I do believe the
Speaker 3: belief is noble that this or something like it took place.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: So again he's pointing out there's a lot of ambiguity
Speaker 3: when you're dealing with a deep past. And then you
Speaker 3: got Critius. Well, the real Critius was like Plato's second cousin, right,
Speaker 3: it was like his cousin's uncle. Who was that guy.
Speaker 3: He was one of the leaders of the thirty tyrants
Speaker 3: who staged this kind of coup with the aid of
Speaker 3: the Spartan military and took over Athens and had something
Speaker 3: I would aiken to the reign of terror in France
Speaker 3: right at killing people left and right right, And Plato
Speaker 3: lived through these times. Right now, this guy Critius doesn't
Speaker 3: seem like a terrible tyrant right. He seems like a
Speaker 3: pretty educated, smart, reasonable guy. So what's going on here?
Speaker 3: It's not exactly the Crittius that we know from history.
Speaker 3: Last guy, Hermocrates. What's this guy's deal? Well, i'll tell you.
Speaker 3: During Plato's lifetime, it was the worst civil war in
Speaker 3: Greek history, the Peloponnesian War, and it was horrific between
Speaker 3: the Athenians and their buddies, the Spartans and their buddies,
Speaker 3: major clash.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: This war lasted on and off, you know, probably thirty
Speaker 3: thirty five years. Plato himself probably had military service during
Speaker 3: this time, so he grew up with this as a kid,
Speaker 3: in an adolescent. There was a brief piece and then
Speaker 3: the war broke out again. Okay, you go back and
Speaker 3: read the myth and sorry, of this is a bit
Speaker 3: of a diatribe. But once you start looking, you start
Speaker 3: seeing parallels to actual historical events. Right, So readers would
Speaker 3: have picked right up on this, right because the war
Speaker 3: had just happened. It's a bit like us with World
Speaker 3: War Two.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: You see a sci fi movie where the bad guys
Speaker 3: are based in Central Europe and the good guys are
Speaker 3: coming in from the UK. What do you think of
Speaker 3: what you think of World War two, Right, So in
Speaker 3: this case, the Peloponnesian was fought in two phases. One phase,
Speaker 3: the Spartans and their allies kind of attacked. The Athenians
Speaker 3: are on the defensive. Cliff guess what go back read
Speaker 3: the Atlanta Smith. The Atlanteans are on the attack. They
Speaker 3: sweep across North Africa and they attack up to the
Speaker 3: center of Italy and the western Mediterranean. They're on the attack.
Speaker 3: The Athenians, the Proto Athenians are on the defensive. What
Speaker 3: happens next? The Proto Athenians fight them off, liberate everybody,
Speaker 3: and they go on the They go on the attack.
Speaker 3: Now they drive the Atlantean forces all the way back
Speaker 3: to the ring capital st and there's this huge battle,
Speaker 3: and then everybody's wiped out by this earthquake in this flood. Well,
Speaker 3: guess what happened in the second phase of the real
Speaker 3: Peloponnesian War. The Athenians got aggressive and they went after Syracuse,
Speaker 3: which is in Italy Sicily by sea right same direction,
Speaker 3: and guess what happened there? A horrific loss where the
Speaker 3: entire Athenian army got captured slash either killed or sold
Speaker 3: into slavery. In fact, they even kept these guys as
Speaker 3: prisoners in an old quarry. Does that sound like getting
Speaker 3: swallowed up by.
Speaker 2: The earth to you?
Speaker 1: I was like it, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So what I guess I'm trying to say is there's
Speaker 3: a lot of layers to this story, and the deeper
Speaker 3: you go, the more wonderful stuff starts to come out
Speaker 3: of this.
Speaker 1: So the the thing about this is that you only
Speaker 1: can give us so much in what is in an
Speaker 1: hour and twenty minute documentary, And what you're telling me
Speaker 1: is the behind this production value that we're not able
Speaker 1: to really get gain from visual interpretation that you provide. Again,
Speaker 1: we're talking about the Atlantis Puzzle. It's coming out in
Speaker 1: early August. Tell us a little bit about how people
Speaker 1: can see it. What's it going to be shown on?
Speaker 3: Absolutely well, so you can check out atlantispuzzle dot Com.
Speaker 3: Will have all the links up there for all the
Speaker 3: different places.
Speaker 2: Good we're going to be.
Speaker 3: Launching on Amazon worldwide hopefully in early August. We're still
Speaker 3: waiting for our actual release date, and we'll have that
Speaker 3: ready for you to have in the show notes, and
Speaker 3: we'll be then gradually rolling out on other streaming platforms
Speaker 3: like Google Play and to b and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Are you motivated? I mean it sounds like you're taking
Speaker 1: us the viewer up to a certain point and providing
Speaker 1: a lot of good geological as well as intellectual info.
Speaker 1: But is there a part two to this that you're
Speaker 1: working on or are you done with it? And you're
Speaker 1: kind of like, Okay, I think I need to go
Speaker 1: somewhere else. I needed I need part too. Well.
Speaker 3: I tell I tell my wife to always remind me
Speaker 3: never to make another movie again, because this was a
Speaker 3: this was an ordeal. I mean, we shot during the pandemic,
Speaker 3: and I mean everything went wrong. You could possibly imagine.
Speaker 3: I don't want to bore people with it, but.
Speaker 1: No, no, you just said it was shot during the pandemic.
Speaker 1: Codd made life hell for everybody.
Speaker 2: Yeah it was.
Speaker 3: It was real difficult, but one of the fascinating things
Speaker 3: that came out of this. And I'm going to be
Speaker 3: working on the potential news series of ancient mystery type stories,
Speaker 3: but focused on I'm going to call them real ancient mysteries. Right,
Speaker 3: So Atlantis is a real story and it's a real mystery.
Speaker 3: What happened during the research for this Cliff, and I
Speaker 3: think this will really appeal to your audience. We found
Speaker 3: out some things are not true, right, some things in
Speaker 3: the myth don't seem to be true. However, shockingly, some
Speaker 3: of the craziest things do seem to be true. And
Speaker 3: one exam and an example I'm going to give about
Speaker 3: that it's ancient seafaring. This blew my damn mind. Right,
Speaker 3: I thought maybe the Egyptians or somebody in the Middle
Speaker 3: East had the earliest boats around three or four thousand BC. Right,
Speaker 3: I mean that's kind of what you read in history
Speaker 3: growing up.
Speaker 2: Right. I was wrong.
Speaker 3: I was utterly wrong. So I read about you know,
Speaker 3: I want to say, twenty papers on research gate, which
Speaker 3: is a website I recommend to people if you really
Speaker 3: want to dig into academic research. Cliff, there was evidence
Speaker 3: on Crete, which was the biggest island in Greece, was
Speaker 3: never attached to the mainland in the last five million
Speaker 3: years that people were seafaring, sailing there by ship from
Speaker 3: like nine thousand BC, pretty close to the timeframe of
Speaker 3: the Atlanta Smith. And in this shocking because we used
Speaker 3: to think that Crete was never settled until six or
Speaker 3: maybe seven thousand BC. So all of a sudden, we're
Speaker 3: finding people there earlier. But it's not just nine thousand BC.
Speaker 3: They found evidence of stone tools shaped by people from
Speaker 3: twenty thousand BC, forty five thousand BC, eighty thousand BC,
Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty five thousand years.
Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, are you saying you're showing you're finding
Speaker 1: evidence of seafaring equipment or boats that go that far back?
Speaker 3: Boats? The oldest boat that we physically have is about
Speaker 3: ten thousand years old. Why they're made out a woodcliff.
Speaker 3: They deteriorate, right, they rot, same thing with any organic
Speaker 3: perishable material, that's amazing. But they find stone. When you
Speaker 3: find stone tools on an island and you can date
Speaker 3: them by layer, you know the stratiography strategue. I can
Speaker 3: never say this word right, it's strati out of strategic geography,
Speaker 3: whatever he is. You you know that these things were
Speaker 3: here to st age a certain time period. And you
Speaker 3: can carbon date organic stuff in the same layer, right,
Speaker 3: so or radiocarbon date. What this tells us is that
Speaker 3: people have been sailing the Mediterranean for not hundreds, not thousands,
Speaker 3: but tens or even hundreds of thousands of years before
Speaker 3: the Atlantis myth takes place. So I thought this was
Speaker 3: one of the most far flong absurd I'm like, these
Speaker 3: guys were Stone Age people. They weren't sailing boats. I
Speaker 3: was rout, there's a vast evidence. Yeah, all over the world,
Speaker 3: I might point out, but particularly in the Mediterranean, that
Speaker 3: there were trade networks.
Speaker 2: This is another one.
Speaker 3: It says the Atlanteans had trade from all over in
Speaker 3: ninety six hundred BC. Was that reasonable? Guess what? We're
Speaker 3: starting to find out that it is. Evidence from the
Speaker 3: Stone Age suggests trade was taking place across That's like
Speaker 3: from from the Middle East to the UK from you know,
Speaker 3: even with during the Bronze Age, you know tin, where'd
Speaker 3: all that.
Speaker 2: Tin come from in the Middle East?
Speaker 3: It's not local, comes from places like Afghanistan and the UK.
Speaker 3: How that I mean, that's a long way to get
Speaker 3: to Iraq, right, So you have to think to yourself, Well,
Speaker 3: and this is the biggest thing I like to say
Speaker 3: to people. It's like, we have this idea cliff that
Speaker 3: you know, again, we're super smart, and that people in
Speaker 3: the Stone Age were dumb because they didn't have computers
Speaker 3: and planes and stuff. But I asked people, I said, well,
Speaker 3: when did the stupidity begin if you go back in time,
Speaker 3: I mean, you're a pretty smart guy. Were your parents
Speaker 3: just dopes? How about your grandparents? Were they dumb?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 3: What about their parents? Your great grandparents? Were they just
Speaker 3: a bunch of idiots? Knuckle draggers?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: I mean when did the stupidity begin? And if these
Speaker 3: people from seventy thousand years ago or whenever, ten thousand
Speaker 3: years ago looked just like us, had our exact DNA,
Speaker 3: our same bodies, why on earth do we think that
Speaker 3: they didn't have the same brains?
Speaker 1: Amazing?
Speaker 3: So, you know, that's I think that's one of the
Speaker 3: biggest things I took away is I think actually ancient
Speaker 3: people were more resourceful than modern people are.
Speaker 1: Maybe use more of their brain than we do now
Speaker 1: because we are crippled by our technology to a certain respect.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. One hundred percent. And I'm sure
Speaker 3: some ancient people would be wowed and they'd say, wow,
Speaker 3: you can you and Cliff can talk to each other
Speaker 3: through this magic box, you know, and you're in different states.
Speaker 3: That's incredible. But you know what if you took your
Speaker 3: average person outside and said, hey, make me a bow
Speaker 3: and arrow that you could kill a deer with. I
Speaker 3: mean they'd starved at that, right, it's a fact. I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, my my, my father in law is an
Speaker 3: experimental archaeologist retired now from the Danish National Museum System.
Speaker 3: And this is a guy who could flake, you know,
Speaker 3: kind of it's called napping nap flint. So he could
Speaker 3: take stones, make stone, make a stone tool out of it,
Speaker 3: take a piece of like gut from an animal that
Speaker 3: he had cured, wrap it around a stick that he had,
Speaker 3: and chop down a tree.
Speaker 2: All in about an hour.
Speaker 3: So this is this is the kind of stuff that
Speaker 3: experimental archaeologists are doing. Is they're trying to recreate Okay,
Speaker 3: how did people.
Speaker 2: Use these tools?
Speaker 3: And what do we know about this? And the deeper
Speaker 3: you go into that kind of the crazier the story gets.
Speaker 3: So I think we need to rethink Advancementcliff. When you're
Speaker 3: talking about earth ancients, you're talking about ancient civilizations. Of course,
Speaker 3: there were ancient civilizations, right, I mean people think, oh,
Speaker 3: Egypt began thirty two hundred BC. Well you think, and
Speaker 3: nobody was living there the day before, and then they
Speaker 3: all just showed up when Narma decided to you know, hey, guys,
Speaker 3: let's let's create a civilization here. No people have been
Speaker 3: living for hundreds of thousands of years at least. And
Speaker 3: one of the most shocking things I'll drop here is
Speaker 3: that some of the designs of the tools and islands
Speaker 3: we find are not from Homo sapiens. They're from Neanderthals.
Speaker 3: That's right. Neanderthals were sailing boats. I don't know what
Speaker 3: they look like. They might have just been log canoes,
Speaker 3: but it seems increasingly likely, especially in the Mediterranean. And
Speaker 3: this actually kind of helps explain the peopling of like
Speaker 3: the Iberian Peninsula better than the current model, which is
Speaker 3: that everybody came through Turkey. They might have sailed across
Speaker 3: the Strait up Gibraltar. And the other thing I'm gonna say,
Speaker 3: and this is controversial, is in Southeast Asia there are
Speaker 3: a couple islands that were never attached to the mainland
Speaker 3: and these mainland Asia. These islands, I think one's called
Speaker 3: Sulawesi and the other one I can't remember. On these
Speaker 3: islands they've found bones with of proto rhinoceros that are
Speaker 3: being butchered and they can see stone tool marks on
Speaker 3: the bones. Controversial, because again, no one was there, No
Speaker 3: one saw it happen. The bones are super old. It's
Speaker 3: very hard to date, but it's somewhere between eight hundred
Speaker 3: thousand a million years ago.
Speaker 2: What does that mean, Cliff?
Speaker 3: That means it's not Homo Sabians who found their way
Speaker 3: to these islands. It is not Neanderthals. It's Homore Rectus,
Speaker 3: which our picture is hairy people who wore no clothes,
Speaker 3: who could barely use fire, but apparently they could paddle
Speaker 3: out to islands. So this is sort of shape reshaping
Speaker 3: our view. At least it's reshaped my view of how
Speaker 3: I think about ancient people and how intelligent and capable
Speaker 3: they were.
Speaker 1: Jack Kelly, director host of this new documentary called The
Speaker 1: Atlantis Puzzle, Real fun. We're gonna have to have you
Speaker 1: come back on the program maybe when you're ready to
Speaker 1: do your next vrenchure and much success on this. You're
Speaker 1: going to be releasing it on Amazon Prime, and I
Speaker 1: think I read in one of your releases that it
Speaker 1: may be in movie theaters as well. Is that something
Speaker 1: that you're considering.
Speaker 3: We're probably going to do just a few small theaters
Speaker 3: and in different places, probably you know, New York. Here
Speaker 3: in my home state of New Mexico, possibly in California.
Speaker 2: But you know, we're a.
Speaker 3: Small independent film company and our distributor is not huge,
Speaker 3: so we don't have the we don't have the bucks
Speaker 3: to do like a worldwide theatrical release.
Speaker 1: I like, I like what I saw, and like I said,
Speaker 1: much success on this, Jack, and I really appreciate you
Speaker 1: taking some time with us.
Speaker 3: CFF, thank you so much for having me on the show.
Speaker 3: I think you know your your message of questioning the past,
Speaker 3: continuing to ask questions, continuing to examine the evidence is
Speaker 3: something we need now more than ever.
Speaker 1: There's going to be a small gallery on the Facebook
Speaker 1: page of the satellite imagery of this African site. And
Speaker 1: I have a lot of questions. I think the biggest
Speaker 1: question we all have is we don't have any understanding
Speaker 1: of how Atlantis was laid out geographically. We know about
Speaker 1: the concentric circles. We know that a number of canals
Speaker 1: were carved that let in from a main opening into
Speaker 1: the central area. We don't know anything at all about temples, landmarks,
Speaker 1: if there was any lighthouses, any kind of maritime assistance,
Speaker 1: I mean, if you have a fleet of ships. And
Speaker 1: this is towards the end of the civilization before the struction.
Speaker 1: If you have hundreds, perhaps thousands of ships, you need
Speaker 1: to have landmarkers, you need to have lighthouses, you need
Speaker 1: to have a lot of man made support to get
Speaker 1: your ships in and out of the harbor. And we
Speaker 1: don't know this. And so when you look at this
Speaker 1: African complex that Jack Kelly talks about, it looks like
Speaker 1: it could be. But he does talk about the fact
Speaker 1: that they've had people go to this location. There is
Speaker 1: no standing stone works, there's no ruins, there is no
Speaker 1: there are no temples, pyramids, buildings, whatsoever. And so it's
Speaker 1: definitely an anomaly. I mean, when you look at these photographs,
Speaker 1: these satellite images, Wow, it's like it's amazing. It could be.
Speaker 1: It really could be. But and this is a big
Speaker 1: butt no evidence of man made handiwork whatsoever. Is one
Speaker 1: what appears to be a major canal, you know. And
Speaker 1: by the way, this is all everything's dried up. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, what if it is, If this truly is Atlantis,
Speaker 1: there's two things. First of all, it's not very big.
Speaker 1: And what are you supporting. Are you supporting civilizations or
Speaker 1: just an army. There's a lot of there's a lot
Speaker 1: of questions, so we have to we have to get
Speaker 1: more eyes down there. I would love to have a
Speaker 1: light er scan of a part of the area, like
Speaker 1: maybe the central area. And also uh oh yeah, and
Speaker 1: when you use lighter you're gonna see the man made
Speaker 1: evidence of any canals, any foundations, any kind of buildings whatsoever.
Speaker 1: And this is why light oar is so amazing because
Speaker 1: it drops down below the surface a few feet and
Speaker 1: you can begin to see the bill the air, the foundations, temples, pyramids,
Speaker 1: and so forth and so on. So there's a lot
Speaker 1: we need to know. And if it is Atlantis, someone
Speaker 1: needs to jump on this immediately. If it's the ruins
Speaker 1: of an ancient city, it's gonna be groundbreaking, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be historical. It'll change everything, it really will. So we
Speaker 1: don't know. We just don't know, and there's a lot
Speaker 1: to be done. I don't know why somebody hasn't at
Speaker 1: least done a real basic flyover with whatever imagery scanning
Speaker 1: tools they can afford. At least use some ground penetrating
Speaker 1: radar on some of the real suspicious areas, because all
Speaker 1: we have right now is landstet satellite imagery and it's
Speaker 1: pretty it's pretty iffy. It's really pretty iffy, fantastic possibility.
Speaker 1: I mean, it really opens if true. If this area
Speaker 1: is true, it really opens up a huge possibility for
Speaker 1: major changes in our understanding of the past, because if
Speaker 1: it is what we think it is, then various university
Speaker 1: expedition archaeological teams can get in there and start doing excavations.
Speaker 1: No one's no one's digging there because it's still too much.
Speaker 1: It's too fantastic for orthodoxy to even consider. And that's
Speaker 1: why there's nobody out there right now from any university.
Speaker 1: They think we're all crazy. It's like, how could there
Speaker 1: be an I mean, it would blow academia out of
Speaker 1: the water. They would be dumbfounded, they would it would
Speaker 1: be such a huge shock. And this is why it
Speaker 1: has to be privately, privately fun. Elon Musk has to donate,
Speaker 1: I would think in the neighborhood of fifty two one
Speaker 1: hundred million to do a real thorough well, that's a
Speaker 1: lot of money. Let's let's dial that back a little
Speaker 1: bit and say let's say ten to twenty five million
Speaker 1: to get a proper expedition out there. Light oar scans
Speaker 1: now used to be exceedingly expensive. Now they could probably
Speaker 1: do it for oh, I'd say a quarter of a million,
Speaker 1: you know, and that would that would put the end
Speaker 1: of any speculation because if light ar comes back and
Speaker 1: it's just sand, then it's this whole concentric circle geological
Speaker 1: formation is just that's what it is. It's just a
Speaker 1: strange anomaly. Could that looks like Plato's Atlantis. But I mean,
Speaker 1: the whole idea of what we're looking at through these
Speaker 1: satellite images does follow what what Plato has to say
Speaker 1: on a very simplistic level. In other words, we don't
Speaker 1: have the details because he doesn't give us a lot
Speaker 1: of details in the Cretius in tomais the two writings
Speaker 1: that he's presenting Atlantis to us, and we don't get
Speaker 1: a great deal of specifics. So fantastic possibilities really is
Speaker 1: look at those images on Facebook. You got to go
Speaker 1: to Facebook at the group page or the international page,
Speaker 1: and I'll have a couple on my Facebook profile as well,
Speaker 1: because there's some that are just amazing. So the documentary
Speaker 1: The Atlantis Puzzle should be available on Amazon, and I'll
Speaker 1: have more information to deliver to you on the Facebook
Speaker 1: pages where you can go and see it. I don't
Speaker 1: know what he's charging right now. Now, it's not a lot.
Speaker 1: I think it's under twenty dollars, but it looks like
Speaker 1: a good one. It looks like a really really good one.
Speaker 1: So there you go. Hey, if you're enjoy Earth Ancients,
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Speaker 1: Forward Slash Earth Ancients. Okay, that's different. Today's program, I
Speaker 1: want to thank my guest today, Jack Kelly, promoting his
Speaker 1: new documentary, The Atlantis Puzzle, and as always, the team
Speaker 1: of Gail Tour and Mark Foster and everyone who makes
Speaker 1: this thing happen. You guys rock all right, take care
Speaker 1: of you well, and we will talk to you next time.