WEBVTT 1 00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:25.280 Well, this is an odd situation. As you are hearing me. 2 00:00:25.559 --> 00:00:31.160 I am in quebecley Teppe, Turkey on our first annual 3 00:00:31.440 --> 00:00:34.920 Earth Ancient Grand Turkey tour, but it's the first time 4 00:00:34.960 --> 00:00:39.119 we don it. Our host is Mohammad Imbrahem and two 5 00:00:39.399 --> 00:00:45.719 local archaeologists who are part of this Sabatur adventure. And 6 00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:50.840 so this is obviously pre recorded and you are hearing 7 00:00:51.159 --> 00:00:54.560 me from a week before. Any hell, how you doing. 8 00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:59.799 I hope things are okay today. We are revisiting Atlantis. 9 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:03.600 When I say revisiting, the focus is on a lot 10 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:10.120 of current literature, scientific discovery and actually some clue mystery 11 00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:13.959 clue information that is being handed down to us from 12 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:19.079 would you believe the Old Man himself Plato and we 13 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:25.000 are supporting and we are introducing a new documentary called 14 00:01:25.239 --> 00:01:31.840 The Atlantis Puzzle with the producer Jack Kelly. And I 15 00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:35.159 wasn't sure about this until I began looking at some 16 00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:39.480 of the footage. And by the way, this documentary is 17 00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:43.079 coming out shortly. It'll be out I think in the 18 00:01:43.120 --> 00:01:47.280 next few days, and it is you'll get the details 19 00:01:47.319 --> 00:01:51.359 when we do the interview. But over the last few years, 20 00:01:51.400 --> 00:01:55.000 there's been a number of new claims and new information 21 00:01:55.519 --> 00:02:03.239 on Atlantis being Africa and a social media influencer, a 22 00:02:03.239 --> 00:02:09.159 guy named Jimmy Corsetti, introduced a landform that he discovered 23 00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:14.000 through some satellite imagery and began posting this on his 24 00:02:14.120 --> 00:02:18.080 YouTube channel. Now, the site and we'll hear about this 25 00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:21.759 more today is based on research from a number of 26 00:02:21.800 --> 00:02:27.520 different Greek scholars and it actually shows what Plato described 27 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:32.599 as concentric circles connected with a number of canals. And 28 00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:36.759 what I have seen in this documentary is a central canal, 29 00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:41.120 which is very very unusual. Now, now as you hear 30 00:02:41.319 --> 00:02:45.199 our guest today, he will direct you to some photographs 31 00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:48.960 that I will put up on our Facebook page and 32 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:52.759 also a place where where you can actually see this 33 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:59.599 video of the Atlantis puzzle. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. 34 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:04.639 I have a lot of issues with this. It sure 35 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:07.199 as heck looks like it when you see these photographs, 36 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:12.520 it looks just like Plato's description. But the issue is 37 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:16.759 that a number of people have gone down to this 38 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:22.199 region of Africa and walked among these circular areas, but 39 00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:27.120 no ruins have been found. Very few, if any artifacts 40 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:30.919 have been found, so it leaves us to consider. Now, 41 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:36.120 it was there a tsunami that wiped this out, wiped 42 00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:39.360 out the city, wiped out the country, wiped out, whatever 43 00:03:39.400 --> 00:03:43.719 you want to call it. The other thing is Plato 44 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:48.319 describes it as an island continent, and obviously if it's 45 00:03:48.360 --> 00:03:56.039 attached to Africa, that's a monstrosity. That's a huge, massive landform, 46 00:03:56.560 --> 00:03:58.879 and it's not an island, it's a continent. It's a 47 00:03:58.960 --> 00:04:04.240 huge continent. So lots of questions, lots to consider, but 48 00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:10.400 it is fascinating. Check out Jimmy Corsetti's YouTube page and 49 00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:13.120 see what you think, because he's actually been on Joe 50 00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:17.439 Rogan once or twice to try to validate this. But 51 00:04:17.480 --> 00:04:21.079 there's no way to validate it. And I think what 52 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:24.720 we're getting is a geological formation. But I got to 53 00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:29.720 tell you that's my guess, that's a lot of other 54 00:04:29.720 --> 00:04:32.560 people's guests. But when you see the VET, when you 55 00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:37.839 see the satellite imagery, it is pretty shocking. And if 56 00:04:37.879 --> 00:04:41.519 there is excavations there, if there is the beginning of 57 00:04:41.560 --> 00:04:48.240 a consorted effort to move the landform to see or 58 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:51.680 what would even be more beneficial is to use lightar. 59 00:04:52.399 --> 00:04:59.439 This fantastic, very powerful and still expensive scanning technique from 60 00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:03.839 a satellite or from a plane to scan some of 61 00:05:03.879 --> 00:05:06.639 these areas to see what is just under the surface. 62 00:05:06.680 --> 00:05:10.839 If they begin doing that, then the answer will be 63 00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:19.199 found immediately because you can't fool this technology. You'll uncover temples, buildings, 64 00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:25.160 and you know if it was truly Atlantis pyramids. So 65 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:29.439 we had to wait and see when true technology is 66 00:05:29.480 --> 00:05:33.519 applied to this area in Africa. So we don't know. 67 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:37.240 We don't know. But as you'll hear today, a lot 68 00:05:37.279 --> 00:05:43.240 of scholars believe that Plato's description of Atlantis has been 69 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:49.319 misinterpreted and that the land of Atlantis is actually very 70 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:54.759 very close to the Mediterranean and it is. There's a 71 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:58.959 lot of clues that have been, as I mentioned, misinterpreted, 72 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:02.920 so we don't know, we don't know what the story is. 73 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:05.959 This is kind of an exciting program though, and as 74 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:10.639 I mentioned, the documentary been in been in production for 75 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:15.120 several years because they're looking to find the most up 76 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:19.800 to date research and information to validate the claims that 77 00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:26.240 Atlanta's is in Africa. So today's program is the Atlantis Puzzle, 78 00:06:27.079 --> 00:06:33.759 and my guest is Jack Kelly. Hey, we're in the 79 00:06:33.759 --> 00:06:36.560 summer months right now, and people are thinking about getting 80 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:41.120 away for a vacation. Perhaps you have time during the 81 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:46.600 fall October November December for a one week getaway. Earth 82 00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:49.519 Ancients has one of the best tour groups around and 83 00:06:49.560 --> 00:06:52.600 we are going to be in Mexico for our Sacred 84 00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:57.000 Temples of the Yucatan Mexico November eighth through the seventeenth. 85 00:06:57.079 --> 00:07:01.800 We meet in Merida, the capital city of Yucatan, and 86 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:05.839 we have a fantastic itinerary. Not only will we see 87 00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:11.120 the classic chichinitza ushmol Ek Balam and many of the 88 00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:17.279 smaller sites like Sail Labna and Mayapan, but we have 89 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:23.920 selected sites that are perfect for climbing, for connecting with buildings, 90 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:29.920 for meditating, an actual intention creation work on this tour. 91 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:35.560 For more information and the full itinerary, go to Earthancients 92 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:39.920 dot com forward slash tours and you'll see the banner 93 00:07:39.959 --> 00:07:44.319 from Mexico November eighth to the seventeenth. If you have 94 00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:47.199 any questions whatsoever, send me an email. Send it to 95 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:51.079 Earth Ancients the number four the letter you at gmail 96 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:54.319 dot com and I'll get right back to you. The 97 00:07:54.399 --> 00:07:57.560 Sacred Temples of Mexico is a unique tour because we 98 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:01.199 have selected sites that you can actually connect with physically, 99 00:08:01.319 --> 00:08:44.200 mentally and spiritually earthengines dot com forward slash Tours. There 100 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:46.840 is a new documentary that I had a chance to 101 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:50.919 look at this month, and it is called The Atlantis Puzzle, 102 00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:54.240 and I'll have to tell you it's not only very 103 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:57.639 well made, but it brings up a tremendous number of 104 00:08:57.720 --> 00:09:02.960 questions regarding where the island of Atlanta's was located and 105 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:07.840 also a time period and also some other details. I 106 00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:11.039 have with me today the director and host Jack Kelly, 107 00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:14.759 to talk a little bit about this new documentary and 108 00:09:14.799 --> 00:09:18.039 to give us the details of this new release which 109 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:22.039 is coming up in a few days. Hey, Jack, Welcome 110 00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:23.600 to Earth Ancients. 111 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:24.440 Ciff. 112 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:27.120 Thanks very much for having me. I'm pleased to be here. 113 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:32.279 You're intrically involved in this. Talk a little bit about 114 00:09:32.320 --> 00:09:36.399 what was the spark that got you interested in actually 115 00:09:36.440 --> 00:09:39.720 presenting and developing this documentary. 116 00:09:41.480 --> 00:09:45.360 Yeah, So The Atlantis Puzzle was a film that came 117 00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:52.639 about almost entirely through chance. So it's probably twenty nineteen. 118 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:57.759 I'm on the Greek island of Santorini investigating Acriti, which 119 00:09:57.840 --> 00:10:02.360 is a wonderful site that was destroyed around sixteen hundred 120 00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:09.399 BC by an enormous volcanic eruption. And today you can 121 00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:11.840 go visit out Criteria and they've got a section of 122 00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:15.679 the ancient city that's been uncovered from probably about twenty 123 00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:19.720 or thirty feet of volcanic ash. And you know, this 124 00:10:19.879 --> 00:10:23.120 is a civilization. It was pretty advanced for the time 125 00:10:23.480 --> 00:10:27.240 related to the Minoans, we think, and you know, they 126 00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:30.639 had multi story buildings, they had toilets and plumbing, they 127 00:10:30.679 --> 00:10:35.600 had sewers. Really an incredible place. So I was there 128 00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:38.039 checking this out with my wife and we're staying in 129 00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:40.759 a hotel not too far away, and I think we're 130 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:43.600 waiting for a taxi and there's a bookshelf in the 131 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:46.080 lobby with a lot of like Greek history and tourism 132 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:49.240 books and stuff, and my wife just suddenly kind of reaches, 133 00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:53.440 pulls one down and says, hey, you might find this interesting. 134 00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:56.960 And I look at it and it says the Atlantis 135 00:10:57.000 --> 00:11:00.240 Conference two thousand and eight, and I thought, what on 136 00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:05.120 earth is this? Because it's an academic conference that took 137 00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:10.480 place in Europe about the subject of Atlantis. And as 138 00:11:10.519 --> 00:11:12.559 far as I was aware, you know, this is just 139 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:17.759 a Kakamami fringe theory thing. It's it's you know, ancient 140 00:11:17.879 --> 00:11:21.440 energy crystals and UFOs and this and that, and so 141 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:26.120 you know, I hadn't brought hadn't brought any good reading 142 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:30.200 material with me, which is which is an uncharacteristic occurrence. 143 00:11:30.279 --> 00:11:31.840 And so I'm sitting by the pool and I has 144 00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:34.679 to start flipping through this. A lot of it I 145 00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:38.559 thought was nonsense. But I just happened on two papers 146 00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:43.919 by this Greek researcher named George Serantidius. And George is 147 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:49.679 based in Athens. He's an incredible, incredible thinker, extremely well read, 148 00:11:49.799 --> 00:11:54.879 very interesting guy. And he was talking about the theory 149 00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:59.720 which has subsequently become kind of popular on social media. 150 00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:04.840 Of that there were shots structure was somehow related to Atlantis, 151 00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:06.879 and it might be in West Africa and so forth. 152 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:11.799 And I think, I think what struck me about George 153 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:15.639 is that, you know, I studied the classics, you know, history, 154 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:18.519 language literature at Yale, so I have a pretty good 155 00:12:18.559 --> 00:12:21.799 grounding in the classics. And so as I was reading 156 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:24.120 his stuff, I said, okay, yeah, this is right, all right, 157 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:27.080 this is true, Okay Plato this yeah, okay, that's right. 158 00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:30.360 He did write that, And and I thought, my god, 159 00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:34.879 you know, this guy has finally cracked this mystery, and 160 00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:38.120 that's what the film is pretty much about. 161 00:12:38.600 --> 00:12:43.360 Yeah, it's really in many parts of this very beautiful 162 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:46.799 and a lot of it's very detail. You will talk 163 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:49.759 about George here in a minute, but making a documentary 164 00:12:49.799 --> 00:12:54.000 requires a tremendous amount of research and work. Was that 165 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:58.600 your contribution? Did you developed the screenplay for the actual 166 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:02.840 documentary and talk a little bit about you mentioned George, 167 00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:07.159 but also the other components that make up this documentary. 168 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:11.240 Yeah, So, so this is anytime you're you're looking to 169 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:14.080 make a film, it's it's a challenge, right, And if 170 00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:17.200 you go back and watch the kind of the extra 171 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:20.120 features on a lot of movies and the making of 172 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:23.759 type of things, there's always people saying, you know, we 173 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:26.200 didn't have enough time, we didn't have enough money, and 174 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:29.480 this happened, and then you know, Harrison Ford got sick, 175 00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:32.559 and then you know so and so broke their leg, 176 00:13:32.679 --> 00:13:35.480 and you know, all these kind of things happened. So 177 00:13:36.440 --> 00:13:39.360 when you're when you're doing a research for a film, 178 00:13:39.559 --> 00:13:44.000 especially a documentary, you have to be really careful. Because 179 00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:46.919 I was very taken in by George's ideas, but then 180 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:49.600 I thought, okay, we really got to fact check this 181 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:53.559 stuff because it's almost like when you get a really 182 00:13:53.639 --> 00:13:55.720 good opportunity, you don't want to blow it. So I 183 00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:58.039 thought this might I might have in my in my 184 00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:03.799 hands possibly you know, maybe eighty five percent of the 185 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:05.759 solution to this ancient mystery. 186 00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:07.960 I have to do justice to this. 187 00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:10.840 So this is reflected in the film where we go 188 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:14.559 back and we look at well through most of human 189 00:14:14.679 --> 00:14:21.399 history before writing, people communicated orally, and they communicated through story, 190 00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:26.080 and they communicated through myth, So what's myth all about? 191 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:29.759 And then we also took a look at what's Serenttitous's theory? 192 00:14:30.559 --> 00:14:33.840 How do you get around to that? And you know, 193 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:37.759 I'll call it a passing familiarity with ancient Greek. I 194 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:40.080 say Latin in college, but it's you know, the grammar 195 00:14:40.159 --> 00:14:42.440 is not too dissimilar. So I can read a little 196 00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:45.399 bit of ancient Greek and I can look up stuff 197 00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:50.360 that I don't know. So the other thing, there's other 198 00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:52.919 major pieces, right, because what we do in the film 199 00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:56.440 is we go through and we examine what are the 200 00:14:56.919 --> 00:15:02.120 stated elements of the atlant to Smith in which takes 201 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:05.799 place in two books written by Plato, the Tomatos and 202 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:09.399 the critius, and then we look at what's implied, right, 203 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:12.639 what are the implications? What are we reading between the lines? 204 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:13.000 Right? 205 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:18.080 If I say, you know, Cliff flew across the country, 206 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:21.279 the implication is that Cliff has some means of air 207 00:15:21.320 --> 00:15:25.000 transportation at its disposal, Right, So you have to really 208 00:15:25.039 --> 00:15:28.200 look into that and think and think pretty carefully. And 209 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:32.799 then you know. The last component is the philosophy of Plato. 210 00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:36.600 And this is where I think a lot of almost 211 00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:40.440 every theory that I encounter about stuff like Atlantis or 212 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:44.799 other kind of ancient mysteries seems to fall flat because 213 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:48.759 a lot of these people don't speak ancient Greek, they 214 00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:53.000 don't know what the original writing says. They're not well 215 00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:59.200 versed in history, so they don't see the analogies. 216 00:15:59.279 --> 00:15:59.480 Right. 217 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:03.360 It's like the Wizard of Oz was supposedly, you know, 218 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:07.600 had a parable connection with the gold Standard, and I 219 00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:10.279 forget if it was William Jennings Bryan or who it was, 220 00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:12.480 But if you didn't know that, or if you didn't 221 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:15.080 been taking American history, you just think it was this 222 00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:17.480 nice story about a ten man, a lion, and a 223 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:20.879 nice girl, and you know, all this kind of stuff. 224 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:26.159 Right, exactly Serenttetis comes off as a scholar. You don't 225 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:30.559 identify him as a scholar, but what he contributes to 226 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:36.399 this whole journey is pretty substantial. He is taking the 227 00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:41.279 original Greek writing of Plato and in many ways saying 228 00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:47.639 that Plato meant a whole different objective. Talk a little 229 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:49.919 bit about that, and this is a very very core 230 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:55.679 part of this documentary is this reinterpretation of these two 231 00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:58.879 documents that identify Atlantis. 232 00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:03.200 Right, And this is one of the most exciting parts 233 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:07.359 of this story to me. Is George, you know, is 234 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:08.880 educated as an engineer. 235 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:10.000 He is Greek. 236 00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:12.720 He speaks ancient Greek, and he learned it, you know, 237 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:18.920 growing up in school. So you know, he is a 238 00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:22.279 very logical guy. So I think for George, he was 239 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:26.319 also a guy who really loved the classics, and I 240 00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:30.160 think it disturbed him or can perplexed him. I'll say 241 00:17:30.759 --> 00:17:36.839 that Plato, who's a master logician, right, would be writing 242 00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:40.519 what a lot of people think is a fairy tale, 243 00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:44.480 right or in academia they say, well, you know, it's 244 00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:48.400 a sort of simple allegory. The Atlantians were bad, they 245 00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:51.279 committed wars, and so the god has destroyed them because 246 00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:54.759 they had Hubris, right. I mean, that's that's very basic. 247 00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:58.720 The thing I would like to challenge both the academics 248 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:03.599 and for theorists on is you got to remember who 249 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:07.759 you're dealing with here. This is not just some guy. 250 00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:11.759 He's not an archaeologist, he's not a historian. He's one 251 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:16.200 of maybe the half dozen greatest philosophers in the history 252 00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:21.839 of the human race. The danger is you and I 253 00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:26.720 think we know better than Plato. And that is where 254 00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:29.400 a lot of people got caught up. George, I think 255 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:33.119 took the opposite tech. He said, I'm not getting something here. 256 00:18:34.279 --> 00:18:39.440 Maybe it's not Plato who's wrong. Maybe it's me and 257 00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:43.319 other people. So when Serantitis went back to look at 258 00:18:43.319 --> 00:18:46.240 this myth and he's very interested in mythology, and I'll 259 00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:49.000 give you just a quick sidebar cliff that I think 260 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:53.240 will appeal to people. So here's an example of Sarantidus's work, 261 00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:56.839 his amateur work. He's an amateur scholar. Right, I'll say 262 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:01.240 he's a professional engineer, so deeply logical guy. He's a sailor. 263 00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:04.240 He you know, has a home out on one of 264 00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:06.880 the Greek islands. Right, he lives in Athens. He sails 265 00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:13.920 back and forth. So in the Odyssey, there's a part 266 00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:15.920 which is which was written by Folmer. For those who 267 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:18.200 don't know, it's one of the two major epics of 268 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:21.920 the ancient Greek world. Deals with the Greek hero Odysseus 269 00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:25.559 trying to get back home from the Trojan War. And 270 00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:28.200 the Trojan War probably took place around you know, eleven 271 00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:33.880 fifty twelve hundred BC. So Odysseus is trying to get home. 272 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:36.799 He has a son named Telemachus, and Telemachus is out 273 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:39.000 sailing around kind of the Ionian Sea. 274 00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:40.880 Well, in the. 275 00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:45.720 Odyssey it mentions that some bad guys are hiding behind 276 00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:49.680 a star shaped island and they're going to ambush Telemachus 277 00:19:49.720 --> 00:19:53.279 when he's on his way home. Here's the thing. George 278 00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:56.559 got a home in the Ionian islands. He's sailed all over. 279 00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:59.920 Guess what, look at any map. There's no star shaped island. 280 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:02.279 So this is the kind of thing that's stuck in 281 00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:05.480 George's cry. He's like, wait a minute, was Homer just 282 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:09.200 you know on crack? I mean, why does he say 283 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:12.599 there was a star shaped island here? So he refused 284 00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:17.279 to accept that either, you know that it was clear, 285 00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:19.880 So what he went wound up doing is going back 286 00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:25.799 and looking at surveys, underwater surveys of the Ionian Archipelago, 287 00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:30.640 and he realized they're doing some research that the sea 288 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:34.759 level was a little bit lower in the Bronze Age. 289 00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:39.359 And sure enough, there's a rocky promontory off the coast 290 00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:44.240 of Kefalonia that looks star shaped on these nautical charts. 291 00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:47.119 So if the sea level was like three four meters lower, 292 00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:50.440 which guess what it was, this would have been a 293 00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:52.720 perfect little mini island to hide behind. 294 00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:54.079 Case closed. 295 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:54.599 Wow. 296 00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:57.920 So I give this example because I want to explain 297 00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:01.039 what kind of a thinker you're dealing with dealing with here. 298 00:21:01.319 --> 00:21:04.640 So now let's fast forward. George is now tackling Plato, right, 299 00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:09.000 and he says, so, once again, something's just not right here. 300 00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:14.160 What's up with this fantasy? There was no there. We 301 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:16.279 don't think there was any sunken conton in the middle 302 00:21:16.279 --> 00:21:20.680 of the Atlantic Ocean. Plate tectonics doesn't support this idea. See, 303 00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:23.920 you know, all this kind of stuff. So he goes 304 00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:29.079 back and he starts rereading modern Greek and modern English 305 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:32.480 translations that should be the best and most reputable. And 306 00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:35.079 one of the first things he stumbled on was it 307 00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:38.400 says Atlantis. You know, to get there, you got to 308 00:21:38.440 --> 00:21:42.759 go out into the Atlantic Ocean. And this just smacked 309 00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:44.920 him in the forehead because he also had the ancient 310 00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:47.119 text and he can read it, and he says, wait 311 00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:50.240 a minute, he looked up that section. He says, that's 312 00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:55.440 not what it says. It doesn't say Okeanos. And the 313 00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:59.319 Greeks knew what an ocean was, right, And there's very 314 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:02.319 solid evidence I could go into that they knew all 315 00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:06.759 about the Atlantic Ocean. And in the Greek thinking, Europe, 316 00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:10.000 Asia and Africa is that sort of the known world 317 00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:13.640 and the ocean was sort of the waters around that, right. 318 00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:21.640 What what was so incredible and and the guy almost 319 00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:23.680 had to kind of like wipe his eyes, is that 320 00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:27.799 for hundreds of years this story has been getting translated 321 00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:30.519 as it was a place out in the Atlantic Ocean. 322 00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:37.240 It says Atlantic Pelagos, and a Pelagos cliff is the 323 00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:41.000 same word that modern Greeks used to describe the Aegean sea. 324 00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:46.400 It's the Aegean Pelagos. The Ionian sea is the Ionian Pelagos. 325 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:51.079 It's a type of sea partially enclosed by land and islands. 326 00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:53.599 That's what it means. And it meant had the same 327 00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:58.400 meaning back then. You want to contrast this to the 328 00:22:58.440 --> 00:23:01.200 Black Sea. You've probably seen some old maps. It's called 329 00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:09.039 the euxinos pontos, right, uh, euphony or eudaemonia eu is 330 00:23:09.079 --> 00:23:15.839 like a positive thing Zeno's stranger. Euxinos pontos meant like 331 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:20.200 the pontos se that is friendly to strangers, because the 332 00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:22.839 Greeks had a lot of trading relationships there in the 333 00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:27.799 Black See. Contrasts that when the Mediterranean, which was known 334 00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:30.799 to the ancient Greeks as a thalasa like a quite 335 00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:33.759 large see, and then you have Okeanos. 336 00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:35.319 So Plato. 337 00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:37.480 This is the other thing piece I think people miss 338 00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:45.319 is if Plato's a master wordsmith. He is extremely particular 339 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:48.160 about the words that he uses, and he's even he 340 00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:51.720 even wrote, I think it's a Cretillius, an entire book 341 00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:57.119 about the etymology of words and language. So what people 342 00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:00.440 I think are missing is you know, some guy two 343 00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:04.160 hundred years ago reads this and he's like, oh, Atlantic Sea, 344 00:24:04.279 --> 00:24:08.160 Well he must mean the Atlantic Ocean, because I you know, 345 00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:12.839 Humphrey Witherspoon the fourth had never heard of, you know, 346 00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:16.279 in Atlantic Sea, so that must be it. This is 347 00:24:16.359 --> 00:24:19.920 the danger right there, Cliff, where we assume that we 348 00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:23.440 know and we assume that the guy who broke it 349 00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:26.200 didn't know what the heck he was talking about. 350 00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:33.160 Yeah, this is the the beauty of Titos's work is that, 351 00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:41.720 for some reason Plato's books were I don't want to 352 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:46.559 say bastardized, but were made to made more palatable to 353 00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:55.759 Western culture. And when you take these classics and reinterpret them, 354 00:24:56.200 --> 00:24:57.799 I think this is where the problem is and I 355 00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:01.720 think this is where George really comes through quite strongly 356 00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:04.200 in this documentary, is that we've been looking in the 357 00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:08.960 wrong place and the entire book is truly a teaching 358 00:25:09.160 --> 00:25:15.000 tool for I guess, either Plato's students or for the 359 00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:21.000 reader in general. And actually George needs to have his 360 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:26.599 own documentary on his interna his interpretation simply because he 361 00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:30.640 really clarifies so much. Talk a little bit about you 362 00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:38.599 just gave us some hints about it, but repositioning Atlanta's 363 00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:46.880 from the Atlantic Ocean to part of the northern African coast. 364 00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:50.880 Sure, and there's just a slight hint I want to 365 00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:52.759 drop in here before we go on. I actually have 366 00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:56.839 this book sitting right over here. Plato's known for being 367 00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:01.440 a dual writer, and that means which was for sort 368 00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:05.680 of the common person, and esoteric, which is for god, 369 00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:08.559 let's say guys like Aristotle. Right, So if you're at 370 00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:11.400 like Aristotle level, you're going to get a whole lot 371 00:26:11.480 --> 00:26:15.200 more out of a Plato story. Probably just like the 372 00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:18.400 people reading The Wizard of Oz who were familiar with 373 00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:20.319 history and what was going on at the time, took 374 00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:23.640 something away about the gold Standard, and kids watching it 375 00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:26.279 are like, oh, look at the cowardly lion. You know, 376 00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:30.400 he gets brave. So that's a multi layered story. 377 00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:34.079 Yeah, he embellished and he embellished. And this is something 378 00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:37.599 that I got from this is that this is a 379 00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:42.720 very Plato's brilliant. He's extremely bright. I mean, if they 380 00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:44.799 probably if he tested his IQ, it'd probably be off 381 00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:49.519 the chart. But also the people that he was writing 382 00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:54.119 for were also extremely bright. So there's a real drop 383 00:26:54.160 --> 00:26:59.039 off when you get to Ignis, Donnelly and these other 384 00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:06.279 Atlantean researchers. They're they're they're really falling all over the place, 385 00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:07.559 aren't they. 386 00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:10.920 They're sort of they missed the boat. And then I've 387 00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:12.680 got this. I just wanted to show this book here, 388 00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:15.720 which I would like to recommend everybody. It's called Philosophy 389 00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:18.880 between the lines. I'm not getting any kickbacks. It's by 390 00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:24.200 professor named Arthur Meltzer who recently retired, and it's about 391 00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:28.039 the history of esoteric philosophy. And basically what Meltzer talks 392 00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:32.079 about is, look, until about two hundred years ago, esoteric 393 00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:36.079 philosophy was like a non controversial thing. Everyone assumed that 394 00:27:36.759 --> 00:27:41.400 philosophers and thinkers were writing on kind of multi multiple levels, right, 395 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:46.039 And in the last couple of hundred years, maybe post Enlightenment, 396 00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:49.799 everyone's just like, oh, it says this, that's what it means, right, right, 397 00:27:50.079 --> 00:27:53.000 And and nuance and subtlety have been lost. And I 398 00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:57.359 think that's also a hallmark of our modern discourse, where 399 00:27:57.960 --> 00:28:01.880 subtlety and irony and things like that, you're gonna you're 400 00:28:01.880 --> 00:28:05.079 gonna get canceled, you're gonna get thrown out people. People 401 00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:08.359