WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:03.680 Welcome to the Trauma Therapist podcast. My name is Gaming Person. 2 00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:07.879 I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping 3 00:00:07.879 --> 00:00:11.000 those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you 4 00:00:11.080 --> 00:00:14.080 to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this 5 00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:18.359 show A five, four, three, two and five our folks, 6 00:00:18.399 --> 00:00:20.760 welcome back to the podcast. Super excited to have as 7 00:00:20.760 --> 00:00:23.679 my guest today, Sarah Rickstein. Sarah, welcome, Thank you so much. 8 00:00:23.719 --> 00:00:24.760 I'm excited to speak with you. 9 00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:30.199 Awesome. Sarah is a trauma therapist based in California who 10 00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:35.840 integrates Semitic experiencing EMDR and ifs. She works with people pleasers, 11 00:00:36.039 --> 00:00:40.759 those healing from emotionally immature caregivers, and individuals navigating breakups 12 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:44.600 and additional relational traumas. Her approach is rooted in helping 13 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:47.280 clients reconnect with their bodies and build self trust. Her 14 00:00:47.320 --> 00:00:52.000 background includes equined assistant therapy, working treatment in school settings, 15 00:00:52.359 --> 00:00:56.799 and serving as adjunct faculty at Pepperdine University teaching clinical 16 00:00:56.880 --> 00:01:01.840 graduate students. She is an LMFT. All right, Sarah, obviously, 17 00:01:01.880 --> 00:01:04.000 just a little bit about you before we get going 18 00:01:04.040 --> 00:01:06.920 share with the listeners. We're from originally, where you are currently. 19 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:10.719 Yeah, I'm from LA. I'm LA native, and I live 20 00:01:10.760 --> 00:01:13.680 in LA still Santa Monica. I lived in other parts, 21 00:01:13.719 --> 00:01:15.920 but I ended up coming back because of family, So 22 00:01:16.359 --> 00:01:17.760 Santa Monica, California. 23 00:01:18.840 --> 00:01:21.239 I lived in LA with my sister for a while. 24 00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:25.159 Loved it, loved it when it went in, not really 25 00:01:25.280 --> 00:01:30.640 knowing about it but hearing all of the kind of 26 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:35.599 typical there stereotypical things about it. But it's so variegated, 27 00:01:35.879 --> 00:01:38.840 Like you can go in and the canyons are amazing, 28 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:43.719 and I think a lot of people don't appreciate that. 29 00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:48.599 Maybe people who don't aren't aware of, you know, the 30 00:01:48.680 --> 00:01:51.599 more nuanced, Yeah, aspects of it. It's beautiful. 31 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:53.680 I agree. Yeah, that's what I also love about is 32 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:57.120 like there's so many different sectors and different like landscapes 33 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:01.000 that you can go to. So yeah, the weather's obviously 34 00:02:01.239 --> 00:02:02.120 a plus as well. 35 00:02:02.840 --> 00:02:06.719 Crazy All right, let's go, How the heck did you 36 00:02:06.760 --> 00:02:09.919 get into this field? Why? What pulled you into it? 37 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:13.199 Yeah? So it's funny because initially I was like, I'm 38 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:16.520 gonna do something with animals, So I started on that 39 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:20.159 track of like learning more about animals. I've always been 40 00:02:20.199 --> 00:02:24.759 a super animal person. And then around high school, I 41 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:29.520 had my first experience with therapy and found that to 42 00:02:29.560 --> 00:02:34.400 be tremendously helpful to get perspective outside of my world 43 00:02:34.439 --> 00:02:39.319 and what I was exposed to. As well as around 44 00:02:39.319 --> 00:02:42.639 that same time, I took my first like college course 45 00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:46.159 in psychology and was like really interested in it. It 46 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:48.840 felt like it was very connected to the way I think, 47 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:53.719 and so with that, I was like, how can I 48 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:57.240 do the two of animals and therapy? So for my 49 00:02:57.400 --> 00:03:02.360 undergraduate I went to Universitydlands a program called Johnston where 50 00:03:02.360 --> 00:03:06.439 I could create my own major. So I studied specifically 51 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:10.719 animal assisted therapy and made a like a my own 52 00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:16.039 course to do equine assisted therapy with more like experiential practice. 53 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:19.280 So I have gone through you know, school, and then 54 00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:24.120 my associateship was doing specifically equine therapy. Now I'm doing 55 00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:25.759 more like in the office, but. 56 00:03:27.400 --> 00:03:28.120 With horses. 57 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:31.800 Not with horses yet, not not yet, but I want 58 00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:32.599 to return to that. 59 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:39.319 Yeah, what what was it about equine therapy? 60 00:03:39.719 --> 00:03:43.719 H Yeah? For you, Well, so I grew up around horses. 61 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:46.319 I started riding when I was five, so I already 62 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:49.800 had like a love for them. But they're such tremendous 63 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:54.520 animals to use for therapy. They're prey animals, so they're 64 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:59.520 super tuned to their environment for survival reasons. So with that, 65 00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:03.439 as a clinician, as someone who can read the horse's behavior, 66 00:04:04.039 --> 00:04:07.840 like I can really attune and see what's happening to 67 00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:13.000 the client, where like you know, maybe they're not presenting congruently, 68 00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:17.040 but the horse, like their behavior is saying that something's 69 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:20.920 kind of off. So it's like fascinating work. They're like 70 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:28.399 well like animal biofeedback mechanisms, and also the relational part 71 00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:33.759 I find like fascinating for people to project with reparative 72 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:38.879 experiences and like the embodied practice somatically as well as 73 00:04:38.920 --> 00:04:41.480 just like being outside in nature can be so healing. 74 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:45.199 So yeah, I love I love being around horses and 75 00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:48.000 find it's like super helpful for for therapy. 76 00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:54.160 You had mentioned that you had a therapy experience when 77 00:04:54.160 --> 00:04:56.759 you were younger. What initially brought you into therapy if. 78 00:04:56.680 --> 00:05:00.279 I can ask, Yeah, of course what initially brought me so, 79 00:05:00.360 --> 00:05:04.319 I like was experiencing some somatic symptoms of sweating a lot, 80 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:07.800 which like in high school, is not ideal. And also 81 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:12.519 just like in retrospect, I've always been someone who's experienced anxiety, 82 00:05:13.199 --> 00:05:15.639 but just maybe when I was little, like the symptoms 83 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:18.519 we didn't know what that would be, so like I'd 84 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:23.279 always have stomach aches. So like I started for generalized anxiety, 85 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:26.600 I had some social anxiety and then as well as 86 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:31.000 had some sweating and that that experience with the therapist 87 00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:34.040 was you know, I'm still actually connected to her today, 88 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:39.759 which is super special, and she it was helpful from 89 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:42.519 her to like learn a little bit more in terms 90 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:44.920 of outside of my world, of like getting a better 91 00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:48.720 understanding of my family system, getting a little more perspective, 92 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:52.040 like at that time, academics was a big stresser for me, 93 00:05:52.319 --> 00:05:55.959 and so like kind of taking a step back, and 94 00:05:56.199 --> 00:05:58.560 also a big part two is like getting the psycho 95 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:01.600 education and learning like, oh, this is what it is. 96 00:06:01.639 --> 00:06:04.800 The diagnosis really helped me as well as she gave 97 00:06:04.839 --> 00:06:08.000 me some tools. And also from her like having a 98 00:06:08.120 --> 00:06:12.279 very very reparative relationship, Like my mom used to say, 99 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:15.319 like she would hear us laughing in the office, She's like, 100 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:18.639 what's going on in there? But just having someone who 101 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:22.439 was such a supportive, like guiding person who really saw 102 00:06:22.560 --> 00:06:25.480 the best in you was like, you know, so meaningful. 103 00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:29.399 Yeah, yeah, I love the way you put that, and 104 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:34.040 it's so such a simple, seemingly simple thing, you know, 105 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:37.959 but when we experience that, we're like, wow, this is amazing. 106 00:06:38.319 --> 00:06:42.439 All Right, So let's talk a little bit more about 107 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:49.160 how things progressed for you as your therapy education unfolded. 108 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:49.920 What did that look like? 109 00:06:50.199 --> 00:06:54.680 Yeah, so I went to Pepperdine for graduate school, and 110 00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:58.519 prior to that, I, before I went back to school, 111 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:00.399 I wanted to do traveling. I didn't know if I 112 00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:03.480 was gonna stay in LA And then worked at a 113 00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:05.839 treatment center for a couple of years, which was like 114 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:10.439 very helpful in terms of getting some education and crises skills. 115 00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:12.519 I honestly think that was probably one of the hardest 116 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:17.000 jobs I experienced, working with teens and residential. And then 117 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:20.560 after my well, during my traineeship, I worked at a 118 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:26.040 school setting, and then after that was doing equine therapy 119 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:30.839 for a couple of years, and you know, really enjoyed 120 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:36.639 the experiential somatic piece and in my own therapy, like, 121 00:07:36.759 --> 00:07:38.600 you know, I had a different therapist over time, but 122 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:41.240 I felt like there was a mismatch in terms of 123 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:44.639 like how I was feeling in the session, like you know, 124 00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:48.240 being quote unquote high functioning, like I present that I'm 125 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:52.319 feeling fine and could talk about different things, but in 126 00:07:52.360 --> 00:07:54.439 my body I felt quite activated. 127 00:07:56.360 --> 00:07:59.160 And so with that activated in what in what sense 128 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:01.360 for my anxiety. 129 00:08:00.839 --> 00:08:05.560 Or yeah, anxiety, Yeah, so not really like in my body, 130 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:11.279 not really present. So I just kind of started to 131 00:08:11.319 --> 00:08:15.279 notice that within my own my own experience with therapy 132 00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:18.240 and with the horsework too. Then I got really interested 133 00:08:18.279 --> 00:08:20.639 in I have a background in dance as well, so 134 00:08:20.839 --> 00:08:23.560 like wanted to explore a little bit more about the 135 00:08:23.600 --> 00:08:27.439 sematics and how that could help within the therapy space. 136 00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:32.919 So I did go to the Embody Lab and got 137 00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:37.840 like an integrative sematic therapy training which was a nice 138 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:41.519 little sampler of like the different types, and then ended 139 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:44.360 up wanting to commit and study a bit more with 140 00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:45.919 sematic experiencing. 141 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:52.120 So that's really interesting that when you had that experience 142 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:56.000 where you were able to kind of sense within yourself, 143 00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:58.759 you had that self awareness about that mismatch I think 144 00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:02.159 with your how you were presenting and how you actually felt. 145 00:09:02.679 --> 00:09:05.720 I mean a lot of people don't have that somatic awareness. 146 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:09.360 I certainly didn't, and I don't even know if I 147 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:11.840 do now. Yeah, but how did how did did that 148 00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:13.320 just come naturally for you. 149 00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:16.559 Yeah, that's a good question. I think through my own 150 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:21.120 like embodied practices with dance and like equine horses that helped. 151 00:09:21.159 --> 00:09:25.480 But I think also like we can be very attuned 152 00:09:25.519 --> 00:09:28.679 to maybe quote unquote like negative experiences that are body 153 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:32.039 so activation, like my heart racing and things like that. 154 00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:36.240 So I think there was like a very noteworthy experience 155 00:09:36.279 --> 00:09:38.440 that I was having having in my body that like 156 00:09:38.559 --> 00:09:41.320 connected me to or especially when I used to like 157 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:44.799 hyper sweat, Like there was definitely signs in my body 158 00:09:44.919 --> 00:09:51.360 that I was like attuning to. So yeah, all right. 159 00:09:51.200 --> 00:09:57.480 So how do things unfold further such that you start 160 00:09:57.519 --> 00:10:00.799 working with people, you start working with clients, and more 161 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:06.600 specifically you're really focused and interested focused on and interested 162 00:10:06.679 --> 00:10:08.360 in somatics. What does that look like? 163 00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:15.879 Yeah? So due to those experiences, like I really wanted 164 00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:19.039 to help people, like I'm really passionate about helping people 165 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:22.320 connect more to their body. I think in our society 166 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:25.639 we're so cerebral and there's so much information we can 167 00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:29.639 get in our body, and I think without that we're 168 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:33.759 missing a lot. So doing the somatic piece with like 169 00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:38.480 anxiety or trauma, I find can provide a lot more 170 00:10:38.519 --> 00:10:43.080 depth and a lot more resourcing too, And I really 171 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:46.840 enjoy helping someone to have more positive experiences with being 172 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:52.919 connected to their body and slowing down and being more attuned. 173 00:10:55.159 --> 00:10:59.639 You mentioned, I think we mentioned in the intro your 174 00:10:59.679 --> 00:11:03.080 work with people pleasers. How did that come about? 175 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:07.279 Yeah, well, probably like many other therapists, it's experiences that 176 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:12.279 I've had that I'm passionate about helping. And you know, 177 00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:15.840 I find it like fascinating, especially with the nervous system, 178 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:20.120 thinking about it as like fawning, and with that kind 179 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:24.240 of response, there's a lot of like mindfulness of the 180 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:28.480 other and hypervigilance of like scanning environments, and then with 181 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:34.240 that there's like not a connection oftentimes to themselves. In 182 00:11:34.279 --> 00:11:36.840 some ways, it can be like a bit helpful and 183 00:11:36.879 --> 00:11:40.399 that they're super tuned to others for themselves for safety reasons, 184 00:11:40.440 --> 00:11:45.279 like it is a it is an adaptation. But to 185 00:11:45.320 --> 00:11:48.799 help people to move from that to be more like 186 00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:52.159 empowered and connected to what feels right for them is 187 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:55.000 like very exciting for me. For people to like have 188 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:57.720 boundaries or decide like it's okay for me to say 189 00:11:57.759 --> 00:12:01.080 no about this thing and really listen, like maybe I'm 190 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:03.279 saying yes to this thing. But it actually really doesn't 191 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:03.879 feel good. 192 00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:08.279 For me, So correct me if I'm wrong here. But 193 00:12:08.519 --> 00:12:13.960 what you're describing in a sense, are the kind of 194 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:19.360 the foundation of trauma, right, is people pleasing well even 195 00:12:19.399 --> 00:12:24.960 before we get there. Yeah, to what degree was this 196 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:27.080 your experience? I mean, did you grow up like this 197 00:12:27.320 --> 00:12:31.120 needing to be hyper visualistes and talk more about that? 198 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:38.720 I think that one just being as raised as a woman, 199 00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:41.279 I think that sometimes we often times can be very 200 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:45.919 socialized to be mindful of our environment and due to 201 00:12:45.960 --> 00:12:49.919 different like familial environments, Like I was very much attuned 202 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:56.519 to other people's emotions. So with that I did develop 203 00:12:56.600 --> 00:13:01.679 more of a style to people please, to fawn and 204 00:13:01.879 --> 00:13:04.440 like Over the years, I've been better able to like 205 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:08.879 differentiate that and come into more of myself, which has 206 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:12.919 been like really empowering and exciting stuff for myself. 207 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:15.000 How did you learn that? 208 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:18.480 Well, I think doing a lot of the work, like 209 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:23.440 I'm really passionate about of like walking, like doing the 210 00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:25.919 walk and talk like what I'm saying to my clients, 211 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:29.080 I'm really practicing for myself. And you know, I can 212 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:31.240 only go as like my clients can only go as 213 00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:36.440 deep as I can, So you know, doing somatic experiencing 214 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:39.360 has really helped me to notice more of those nuances 215 00:13:41.080 --> 00:13:45.200 and getting more connected to maybe my fight response, like 216 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:47.159 getting I like to say, like I connect more to 217 00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:50.519 like my sassiness, which is something maybe I've lost with 218 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:52.399 a little bit of the people pleasing. I mean, I 219 00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:54.879 think I've always had a bit of sassiness, but like 220 00:13:56.120 --> 00:14:00.480 that as a protective response. And yeah, with that, it's 221 00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:02.720 been really interesting to see how that shifted in my 222 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:07.960 personal relationships and how like that actually feels really nice 223 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:10.639 even though there's you know, maybe some shifts and changes 224 00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:15.200 like that, I'm really listening what feels good for me 225 00:14:15.399 --> 00:14:18.600 and not like over extending myself or you know, maybe 226 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:21.440 overfunctioning in relationships. 227 00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:24.759 This is I mean, this is hard stuff to be 228 00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:27.519 able to do this. I mean obviously it's different for everybody, 229 00:14:27.559 --> 00:14:33.440 but this idea of people pleasing, and because oftentimes it 230 00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:38.720 has the roots are deep. Right. How can you talk 231 00:14:38.759 --> 00:14:43.039 about a particular maybe client you had, or how you 232 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:46.919 work with someone around this topic? What do you look 233 00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:48.919 for what comes up? 234 00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:55.120 Yeah, well, yeah, there's a variety of ways in which 235 00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:58.240 it shares. I mean, nowadays with people, a lot more 236 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:01.000 educated people will come and you know, maybe share that 237 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:05.159 about themselves. I'm often looking for people who like maybe 238 00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:08.600 over extend themselves in relationships or when we're meeting, I'm 239 00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:11.360 hearing them, you know, they're saying they're doing this thing, 240 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:14.720 but like in their body or like, you know, there's 241 00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:16.559 other cues that let me know they don't really want 242 00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:19.279 to do it. It might show up to in like 243 00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:24.639 romantic relationships. Oftentimes there is like a history like growing 244 00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:30.360 up with an individual who adapted to people please, so 245 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:32.000 often that also is a cue. 246 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:40.480 And is that oftentimes a sign of maybe trauma? 247 00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:41.759 Yes, yeah I would. 248 00:15:41.799 --> 00:15:44.120 I can't say, we can't say definitively all the time, 249 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:45.320 but maybe. 250 00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:51.080 Yes, yeah, I would say, yeah, okay, yeah, okay. 251 00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:53.600 So how do things unfold for you? What does that 252 00:15:53.639 --> 00:15:56.519 look like when you're working with someone and maybe you 253 00:15:56.559 --> 00:16:00.440 see that disconnect or experience that disconnect. How are you 254 00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:05.600 kind of peeling the onion layers back if you will. 255 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:09.679 Yeah, Well, A big piece I think is like naming 256 00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:14.639 it and also providing psycho education surrounding it of like, oh, 257 00:16:14.759 --> 00:16:18.600 you know, there's telling them two about the different threat 258 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:22.360 responses and fonding being one of them. You know, it's 259 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:25.039 a newer one, so not everyone's like aware of it, 260 00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:28.399 but I might say, like, you know, that sounds similar 261 00:16:28.519 --> 00:16:32.600 to people pleasing, Like does that like resonate with you 262 00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:37.399 and your relationships? It might look like this also, like 263 00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:40.360 in the body, if there's like a lot of hypervigilance, 264 00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:44.559 then I get curious about that. A lot of it too, 265 00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:47.519 is like tracking in the body. And I think like 266 00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:52.080 the slowing down because with anxiety or being hypervigilant, like 267 00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:56.120 things are moving quite quickly, so like also in our work, 268 00:16:56.200 --> 00:17:00.120 slowing things down, getting curious about what's showing up in 269 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:04.119 the body. And I think the pausing, slowing down and 270 00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:07.200 checking in with the body is a really helpful way 271 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:09.799 to start to shift things or for people to start 272 00:17:09.799 --> 00:17:14.839 to notice and be curious about what their tendency is 273 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.000 versus like what feels grounded to them. 274 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:21.680 How do you define people pleasing? 275 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:27.000 It's a good question. Yeah, I would say someone who 276 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:34.000 tends to be vigilant or concerned with other people's needs, 277 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:38.440 maybe over themselves. Maybe at times that looks like sacrificing 278 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:41.759 their own needs or wants for someone else. 279 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:46.160 Yeah, I mean, I'm just thinking about that, and that 280 00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:51.720 just can oftentimes be so insidious because it oftentimes presents 281 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:56.599 a such a conflict you're wanting to do something or 282 00:17:56.640 --> 00:18:00.240 you you do something but you're not wanting to do 283 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:03.599 it at all, right, right, And it just seems to 284 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:08.799 me like you just can can fuel this intense anxiety, 285 00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:12.519 and when it becomes a pattern, we find ourselves living 286 00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:16.079 a life that we don't want, right. 287 00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:19.079 Yeah, And that's what I see a lot with clients too, 288 00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:24.160 is like there's high burnout and exhaustion. So sometimes I'll 289 00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:26.319 see clients come to that in when that's like, you know, 290 00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:31.880 they've really overextended themselves. And also I think a bit 291 00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:34.559 too like regret, like they're like, I did this thing 292 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:36.279 and then afterward I'm like, oh, I kind of wish 293 00:18:36.279 --> 00:18:37.079 I didn't do that. 294 00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:42.960 So when you're working with someone like this, you mentioned 295 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:50.119 kind of sematical encouraging, sematic awareness, providing that foundation for 296 00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:56.920 that are there because a lot of times people sometimes 297 00:18:56.920 --> 00:19:00.359 people don't even know how to tap and what do 298 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:02.720 you mean be aware of my body? What are you 299 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:09.279 talking about? Or no it's too triggering? M M. Yeah, 300 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:12.160 how do you work with that? What do you do? Yeah? 301 00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:15.160 I think it's definitely scaffolding based on a client like 302 00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:20.200 that and maybe initially too, it's like where do you 303 00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:24.759 attune and notice maybe desire and like where like sometimes 304 00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:27.400 I'll offer a body scan of like or all model 305 00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:30.759 to themselves, to them of like, oh, when I'm feeling 306 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:33.119 this way, I might notice it in my stomach, So 307 00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:37.759 it's just like kind of first noticing. Of course, with 308 00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:40.279 different trauma, like going to the body can be quite 309 00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:48.160 scary or like uncomfortable or dissociative. So with that slowing 310 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:53.880 down and yeah, I think a tuning first to pleasure 311 00:19:54.480 --> 00:20:00.319 is oftentimes the way the way i'll I'll invite that curious. 312 00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:05.440 And with a situation like people pleasing, how does that 313 00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:10.319 sematic awareness help somebody help the client? 314 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:15.920 Right, Well, it helps someone to really attune to their 315 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:18.599 body a mentor of mind sets, like you know, the 316 00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:22.119 the body never lies, like it always tells the truth. 317 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:24.440 It's maybe a little bit quieter than the mind, but 318 00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:27.319 you know, the mind has thoughts and thoughts are not facts. 319 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:31.400 So I think with that, it's like the body will 320 00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:34.160 let you know something feels good or doesn't feel good. 321 00:20:34.599 --> 00:20:38.279 So with that, like getting that information can better inform 322 00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:41.319 the person of like what makes me want to lean 323 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:46.799 towards that is that like a response due to my trauma, 324 00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:49.680 due you know, to other experiences, or does this actually 325 00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:52.119 feel good for me and good for me and my body. 326 00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:57.160 Let's take a shift a little bit. You talked earlier 327 00:20:57.240 --> 00:21:00.440 on about one of your experiences working with teams, and 328 00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:03.680 you said that was like maybe one of the most 329 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:07.839 challenging experiences you've had. I'm curious what about that was 330 00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:08.640 challenging for you. 331 00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:12.559 Yeah, so I hadn't yet gone to grad school and 332 00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:17.519 I was a residential counselor, and yeah, I was I 333 00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:21.640 you know, it is a bit overwhelming to be in that, 334 00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:27.720 you know, that environment. You know, it wasn't a touch facility, 335 00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:31.519 which so like if someone were to act out or 336 00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:34.559 get physical, there's not much like the staff could do. 337 00:21:35.480 --> 00:21:40.720 And I think also like at that time, getting more 338 00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:44.480 confident within myself, you know, my own people pleasing tendencies 339 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:47.400 of like maybe I didn't want to enforce a rule 340 00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:51.200 because I was worried about how someone may react. But 341 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:53.759 the kids were all like so lovely, and it's also 342 00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:58.400 so fun to work with, like the teens. But yeah, 343 00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:03.440 it was hard to managed the different challenges that came 344 00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:06.319 up or the level of activation if someone was having 345 00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:09.079 like a big you know, if they were throwing something, 346 00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:14.240 or once I had a client who she didn't like 347 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:18.119 that I enforced a rule and then was like circling 348 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:21.000 my car with a rock, and I was like, there's 349 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:24.000 nothing I can do if this client decides to throw 350 00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:28.200 a rock at my car. But so in those ways, 351 00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:32.079 it was quite challenging. But I think a big piece 352 00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:36.000 I learned there too is how important rapport is with 353 00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:41.119 those clients, and like also using humor, which is a 354 00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:45.799 helpful way for me too to like express different interventions, 355 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:48.480 and like that was the humor piece too, is very 356 00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:54.559 connective for the teens as well. 357 00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:58.200 As a people pleaser. How did that show up in 358 00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:03.920 your work earlier on? And I'm curious what that would 359 00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:04.359 look like. 360 00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:10.880 Yeah, that's a good question. Probably early on it was 361 00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:15.000 like a like a bit like one doing a good job, 362 00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:18.839 you know, like the beginning was like nerve wracking for 363 00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:22.880 me and being a therapist, like getting comfortable within that 364 00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:29.599 professional role. And also like probably I wouldn't challenge clients 365 00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:31.799 quite as much as I would now and have the 366 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:35.519 ability within myself to sit with more of like the 367 00:23:35.559 --> 00:23:40.480 more challenging experiences that someone might have, as well as 368 00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:44.720 like my boundaries probably like weren't as refined as they 369 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:48.640 are now. Like you know, when I worked at the 370 00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:53.039 equine site, people who often came to do equine therapy 371 00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:57.880 were like often people who've tried other modalities and it 372 00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:02.519 wasn't connected so like like more complex cases as well 373 00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:05.799 as the environment that I was in was a more 374 00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:11.319 higher ses environment, so also like more maybe entitled client. 375 00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:15.519 So I notice a lot of you know, people will 376 00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:19.880 be texting me and like asking for more things like 377 00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:22.839 when I wasn't meeting with them or things like that, 378 00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:29.319 and yeah, was learning to navigate those situations and dealing 379 00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:32.200 with like seeing teens or kids and working with their 380 00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:36.000 parents and being assertive with them and giving them feedback 381 00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.240 with something that was like a learning curve as well. 382 00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:45.279 What do you feel, Sarah allows you to do this work? 383 00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:49.079 What do you feel is like would you say one 384 00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:52.400 of your strengths in the work you do? 385 00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:56.000 Yeah, well, I really love my job, which is such 386 00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:59.759 a blessing. I think when I'm naturally a very curious person, 387 00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:04.279 and my friends will say, I'm like really non judgmental, 388 00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:07.599 like I'm not really bothered by too much per se, 389 00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:11.960 So like I think that really helps. And yeah, the 390 00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:14.000 care for the people that I meet with, Like I 391 00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:18.119 genuinely really do care for them and for their success 392 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:20.240 and for the growth that they're hoping for and the 393 00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:25.359 hope for that as well. Yeah, and I also really 394 00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:28.720 love that, like the job invites you to continue to 395 00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:32.519 grow and challenge yourself and like constantly learning and you know, 396 00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:35.279 where can I learn more to help this client? Like 397 00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:41.160 I love that part of the job too. So, yeah, when. 398 00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:44.960 You were when you were starting out, even as you progressed, 399 00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:52.920 did you understand how necessary it was for you as 400 00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:55.200 a therapist or therapists in general, like to do their 401 00:25:55.240 --> 00:25:55.880