Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin. They signed their crypto legislation into law just yesterday.
Speaker 1: It's kind of surreal, like Russia's getting this done, but
Speaker 1: we can't get it done. I mean, what's happening.
Speaker 2: You would think that would put the pressure on, you know,
Speaker 2: because we all know President Trump doesn't like to be behind,
Speaker 2: you know, these other countries. And yeah, I keeps I
Speaker 2: don't know if that's clickbait, you know it's but it
Speaker 2: seems to be happening everywhere else but here.
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Speaker 1: slash Go slash Thinking Crypto. Link will be in the description. Hey, folks,
Speaker 1: welcome into the Thinking Crypto podcast Crypto watercooler series where
Speaker 1: Amanda and I dive into the latest crypto news so
Speaker 1: you can have an update as to what's happening in
Speaker 1: this crypto landscape. Amanda, great to see you.
Speaker 2: Great to see you.
Speaker 1: Episode ten, Yeah, and it's a packed one. We have
Speaker 1: lots to talk about huge Tratify adoption news, but also
Speaker 1: lots of problem with the Clarity Act, Amanda. This bill
Speaker 1: seems stuck. It seems like it's not going to happen.
Speaker 1: We got one more day left the White House. Supposedly
Speaker 1: the reports are coming out that they're re engaging on
Speaker 1: those ethics talks for the updated bipartisan ethics language. But
Speaker 1: then Senator Josh Holly came out and said, I'm not
Speaker 1: voting for this bill until the bank stable coinyal situations resolved.
Speaker 1: So a lot of headwinds here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there certainly is. And you know, the crypto industry,
Speaker 2: as you know, has spent years begging Washington for rules,
Speaker 2: and the second legislation became politically difficult, and I blame
Speaker 2: much of it to crypto twitter. You know, we stopped
Speaker 2: talking about the actual contents of the bill and we
Speaker 2: started arguing over Trump and ethics provisions and meme coins
Speaker 2: and partisan narratives, and you know, meanwhile, then tutions that
Speaker 2: actually need legal certainty, you know, your banks, your asset managers,
Speaker 2: your pension funds, they don't care about any of that.
Speaker 2: They just want the rules. And so the loudest boy
Speaker 2: I tweeted this this morning. It's like your loudest voices
Speaker 2: are accidentally making the legislation about personalities, and we need
Speaker 2: to get back to market structure. I just I worry
Speaker 2: because of the timeline.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a really tough spot to be in
Speaker 1: because Amanda, if the August recess is coming up, supposedly
Speaker 1: the Senate is going out as of tomorrow or I
Speaker 1: should say August tenth, but tomorrow will be their last
Speaker 1: day in office. There are some rumblings that other bills
Speaker 1: like the Save America Act and some other items may
Speaker 1: spill over to next week. So could there be a
Speaker 1: delay before they head out. It's possible. But even if
Speaker 1: there is a delay, doesn't mean the claritiac is going
Speaker 1: to get passed because there's so many headwinds here.
Speaker 2: I know, and it's not very encouraging to read. You know,
Speaker 2: Senator Lummis, who has been the biggest champion of every
Speaker 2: update we've read over the past couple of weeks, who's
Speaker 2: pointing blame now, And that's kind of discouraging and disappointing
Speaker 2: at the Democrats. I was hopeful that they're working together,
Speaker 2: but now that the blame game is happening, I'm not encouraging.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if this doesn't get done, the likelihood that
Speaker 1: it will get done in September is very low because
Speaker 1: we are in midterm election season and everybody's going to
Speaker 1: come back September ready to go campaign start their whole
Speaker 1: political mud slinging. But you know, fingers crossed, I mean,
Speaker 1: they come back September fourteen, they can do something. Get
Speaker 1: this bill out of the Senate, Senate to the House.
Speaker 1: I don't anticipate any issues in the House. We spoke
Speaker 1: to Representative Brian's Style about this, and hopefully it could
Speaker 1: go to President Trump design into law. You know, that's
Speaker 1: the ideal scenario.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And we've spoken to so many people over time.
Speaker 2: You know, it's the government, and I think anything can
Speaker 2: happen at the eleventh hour, and we just have to
Speaker 2: hope that that one day it changes on a dime.
Speaker 2: That's all we can really hope for at this point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, the United States needs this bill. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think it was just announced Russia's President Vladimir Putin
Speaker 1: they signed their crypto legislation into law just yesterday. It's
Speaker 1: kind of surreal, like Russia's getting this done, but we
Speaker 1: can't get it done. I mean, what's happened.
Speaker 2: You would think that would put the pressure on, you know,
Speaker 2: because we all know President Trump doesn't like to be
Speaker 2: behind you know, these other countries. And yeah, I keep
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's clickbait, you know it's but
Speaker 2: it seems to be happening everywhere else, but here, you know,
Speaker 2: I think I just read France is doing something with
Speaker 2: a bitcoin treasury or a reserve, and then you have
Speaker 2: London that is miles ahead of us with regard to
Speaker 2: stable coin legislation. So yeah, we got to get a
Speaker 2: move on.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And for folks who may not know, the EU
Speaker 1: pass their version of the Clarity accidents last year and
Speaker 1: they've been moving ahead, fine tuning it. The UK has
Speaker 1: been pushing their crypto legislation through the Parliament, so they're
Speaker 1: making progress and we feel stuck here. But my hope
Speaker 1: is that to your what you mentioned earlier, the eleventh hour, Uh,
Speaker 1: the members of you know, the government, they wake up
Speaker 1: and they get this done and we can celebrate and
Speaker 1: we can start doing more innovation here in the United States,
Speaker 1: create more jobs and much more.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I hope this is a learning lesson too
Speaker 2: for you know, to untie political figures to these you know,
Speaker 2: these movements that they have nothing. I realize on a
Speaker 2: legislation perspective, they do. But to untie us from these
Speaker 2: political figures, it's not it's doing more harm than good.
Speaker 2: Whether it's President Trump or not. You know, we need
Speaker 2: to get a what there's no president who became the
Speaker 2: Internet you know zar or the Internet guy. When we
Speaker 2: keep saying, oh, Donald Trump is the is the crypto president,
Speaker 2: and now I'm hearing rumblings he will be in his
Speaker 2: second term the AI president. That's this is not good
Speaker 2: for us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it absolutely should not be that way. There shouldn't
Speaker 1: be some leader of the crypto movement or whatever. It
Speaker 1: should just be this is a technology. Let's get it. Uh,
Speaker 1: regulations in place to protect consumers, but foster innovation and
Speaker 1: let's move forward, right, Uh, don't spin our wheels on
Speaker 1: personalities and these people, which really sucks. And look, this
Speaker 1: all started under the Biden administration with Elizabeth Warren. She's
Speaker 1: the one to blame for all this political nonsense because
Speaker 1: if she didn't go on the attack like that, then
Speaker 1: the crypto industry wouldn't have to be involved politically. But
Speaker 1: here we are.
Speaker 2: You it's it's so true. The culture wars all started
Speaker 2: under President Biden, and this is and Elizabeth Warren just
Speaker 2: feeds that beast. She she loves it because she really
Speaker 2: is one foot out the door here, you know, into
Speaker 2: her retirement. Why are you taking this stand? And I
Speaker 2: guess she's she too, probably has a diary like Fauci
Speaker 2: or she's loving the attention.
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, you know she's I've said it many times,
Speaker 1: the facade she's put up over the years, I'm anti corporation,
Speaker 1: anti banks, She's really not. She's working for a lot
Speaker 1: of them. And she showed her cards when she teamed
Speaker 1: up with Jamie Diamond to bash Crypto. And of course
Speaker 1: she doesn't go after the banks the same way she
Speaker 1: does Crypto. But this is about the incumbents fighting back
Speaker 1: and there, you know pulling, this is pulling Elizabeth Warrens strings,
Speaker 1: you know, go attack the industry, Go put up these
Speaker 1: roadblocks so that they can't win. We need to catch up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very weird to read that Wall Street
Speaker 2: Journal article that came out that was completely misinformed by
Speaker 2: their editorial team. By the way, like if someone paid
Speaker 2: for that, that's you know, that goes against the Federal
Speaker 2: Trade Commission. But I hope that they're better in formed now.
Speaker 2: I know there were a couple letters sent to them
Speaker 2: by people high up, but that was shocking by the
Speaker 2: Wall Street Journal to put that out.
Speaker 1: I believe that's a paid hit piece. It wouldn't surprise
Speaker 1: me if that came from like the Warren or Jamie
Speaker 1: Diamonds or whoever. I mean, it was to your point,
Speaker 1: it was just a mess, and I'm glad a lot
Speaker 1: of people called it out and send in letters and
Speaker 1: much more. But yeah, it was it didn't help. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I mean with that backdrop right of the Claritiac debacle,
Speaker 1: you have some of the biggest crypto adoption happening. It's incredible.
Speaker 1: It's like these Wall Street guys, they don't care. They're like, look,
Speaker 1: we know eventually there's a bill that is going to
Speaker 1: get done, but we're going to build. So first off,
Speaker 1: Blackrock they expanded your tokenized products. They launch two new
Speaker 1: tokenized products and one is a tokenized money market or
Speaker 1: a should say, both are tokenized money market funds, and
Speaker 1: one is on etherorem and one is on multiple chains.
Speaker 1: And then B and Y Melon they partner with Galaxy
Speaker 1: to launch crypto staking. I mean huge institutions. Is incredible
Speaker 1: what they're doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think with Blackrock it's important to these are
Speaker 2: cash products and that's really you know, cash is used everywhere,
Speaker 2: and so Blackrock, Blackrock isn't trying to tokenize memes, you know,
Speaker 2: they're tokenizing cash and I think that's really interesting. I
Speaker 2: think it's really smart because people, including myself, we all
Speaker 2: heard tokenization and this was the latest, you know, trend,
Speaker 2: and you thought stocks equities, you thought that was going
Speaker 2: to be the first, but actually it's it probably starts
Speaker 2: with more boring assets before we get to that bigger
Speaker 2: you know, the infrastructure has to exist and then everything
Speaker 2: else becomes a little bit easier.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and black Rog has been leading the way in
Speaker 1: many fashions or sectors of the crypto industry. They were
Speaker 1: the first to tokenize a product on as far as
Speaker 1: the major Wall Street firms, and then we saw Fidelity
Speaker 1: and Franklin, tamphany the others follow. So they're not slowing down, man,
Speaker 1: they are expanding, they're building, they are all of course
Speaker 1: they have crypto etf products. And then would be n
Speaker 1: Y Melon that's America's oldest bank. It's the largest custodial
Speaker 1: bank in the world, and they are allowing institutions to
Speaker 1: stake their crypto assets, so Eth Salon and others, which
Speaker 1: is mind blowing when you think about it. But they
Speaker 1: also already offer crypto custody exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, custody plus yield for institutions. That's huge because custody
Speaker 2: wants sat in one place, and then you had staking
Speaker 2: that happen completely somewhere else. So now that these two
Speaker 2: things are merging, you know, that gets rid of compliance
Speaker 2: headaches all these other operational risks. So this is this
Speaker 2: is really really major. And again b n Y Melan,
Speaker 2: this is one of your oldest institutions on this earth,
Speaker 2: you know, so two hundred and forty, two hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty years old. Again, that's that's speaking volumes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like they're not even paying attention to
Speaker 1: what's happening in DC, you know whatever, We're just gonna
Speaker 1: good people launching, keep building. And even there was news
Speaker 1: yesterday MasterCard they're partnering with like borderless xyz to do
Speaker 1: some stable coin pilots in different countries. There's so many
Speaker 1: trad fi adoption news items it's hard to keep up
Speaker 1: with now you can clearly see we got game theory
Speaker 1: playing out here. No one wants to get left behind.
Speaker 1: They're all in the race trying to build and launch
Speaker 1: your product.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's great. It does show that innovation
Speaker 2: won't stop because, as as I mentioned too, you have
Speaker 2: people coming out of the woodwork, as we're seeing kind
Speaker 2: of more the discouragement of clarity becoming realistic who are
Speaker 2: saying with or without clarity, innovation will continue. And you
Speaker 2: do have to thank the banks for that. You have
Speaker 2: to thank the institutions for adopting this because it's not
Speaker 2: going anywhere. You know, the genie is out of the bottle.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And one of the conversations I had with Austin
Speaker 1: Campbell of Zero Knowledge Consulting, I remember months ago he said, look,
Speaker 1: even if the Claritiact doesn't pass, what's most important is
Speaker 1: that the regulatory agencies like the SEC and CFDC are
Speaker 1: providing the rulemaking and guidance that these institutions want. Because
Speaker 1: those agencies already enforcers. They're the ones that are going
Speaker 1: to send lawsuits in wells notices, right, So if they're
Speaker 1: providing the guidance saying, hey, tokenization totally cool, staking not
Speaker 1: a security and all these things. It gives the confidence
Speaker 1: for these institutions to build and do these things. The
Speaker 1: only thing that Claritiact would be ideal for is before
Speaker 1: the next president comes in that it solidifies what the
Speaker 1: agencies have done and puts it into law. So but
Speaker 1: in the meantime, if the sec says, hey, black Row,
Speaker 1: totally cool, bny Mellon, no problem, They're going to keep building.
Speaker 2: And they have those relationships you know already because of
Speaker 2: all the compliance that they already have existing with their
Speaker 2: current produm so that that to me would be a
Speaker 2: shoe in for this next you know, for modern digital
Speaker 2: assets to come in and all these products that they
Speaker 2: will continue launching. Uh. That's that makes me feel better.
Speaker 2: I just hope eventually clarity does happen because I think
Speaker 2: for our industry at large, not just trad fy but
Speaker 2: like crypt natives like, they also need some sort of
Speaker 2: like to get out of this gray area.
Speaker 1: And I think a good segue into a news item
Speaker 1: which has been making the rounds. It's pretty bad, and
Speaker 1: I feel sorry for the people who lost their crypto.
Speaker 1: But the cold card hardware wallet exploit where folks lost
Speaker 1: their bitcoin, it's self custodial set up. But this situation,
Speaker 1: I think Amanda will lead people to the black Rocks
Speaker 1: and the b and y Melon's like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I don't want to deal with this. I'm going to
Speaker 1: go to an ETF And it feels like we're at
Speaker 1: a turning point where that's going to happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was that was wild. You know, a secure
Speaker 2: wallet should generate a combination that effectively effectively is impossible
Speaker 2: to guess this was and it's it's you couldn't even
Speaker 2: catch the attacker because it's not like they used a
Speaker 2: mathematical equation that was just that easy to hack and
Speaker 2: attack people. So that's yeah, that's not a vote of
Speaker 2: confidence for for trust and security in this industry for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a tough one because there's gonna be
Speaker 1: a lot of critics coming out and saying, look, cold Storage,
Speaker 1: excuse me, self custody. Uh maybe not the go to
Speaker 1: and look I personally self custode. I use like a treasure.
Speaker 1: I've used Ledger. I believe those companies are in a
Speaker 1: better position than Cold Card. But unless uh, this situation
Speaker 1: really really puts a damper on you know that ethos
Speaker 1: of crypto that you can be your own bank. And
Speaker 1: I'm not saying all self custody is bad or going
Speaker 1: to have problems, but this, this is a tough one.
Speaker 1: It's a big one.
Speaker 2: And a lot of the bitcoiners again, you know, they're
Speaker 2: already kind of under attack because of sailor and strategy.
Speaker 2: This does not help them either.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, I wonder, Amanda, I'm gonna put
Speaker 1: my tinfoil hat on if you know somebod these tratify
Speaker 1: guys are like, hey, let's get our uh you know,
Speaker 1: developers or engineers to go and try to hack these
Speaker 1: things and exploit them and you know, show the weakness
Speaker 1: because that's going to benefit all our business. Wow.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine I could see it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Look, I mean there's nothing it is unnecessarily well,
Speaker 1: obviously trying to hack something is illegal, right and stealing funds.
Speaker 1: But it wouldn't surprise me if there's like, because we've
Speaker 1: talked about private tiers, what if there's bad actors who
Speaker 1: are private tiers right going out and like, hey give
Speaker 1: me a million, I'll go crack this hardware wallet And
Speaker 1: then it doesn't if there's no attachment to anybody it justs.
Speaker 2: True, and security is definitely one of those conversations that
Speaker 2: keep there's more and more things that this industry is
Speaker 2: having their eyes open to. Because the bitcoin community in particular,
Speaker 2: it was always don't trust verified, that was their big thesis.
Speaker 2: And and yet nobody verifies how their hardware wallet generates entropy,
Speaker 2: no one. So that's how this was. You know, every
Speaker 2: everyone is ultimately placing trust in the manufacturer's firmware. And
Speaker 2: I think that's a huge loophole.
Speaker 1: That's such a great point, such a great point, because
Speaker 1: there needs to be some sort of industry standard where
Speaker 1: all these guys are audited to a certain degree. And
Speaker 1: maybe it's in partnership with the government. Right, I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to set a big brother or anything, but just
Speaker 1: rather just to have the make sure everybody's doing what
Speaker 1: they need to do and that Ledger is audited, cole
Speaker 1: cart is audited, right, and they're on a quarterly basis.
Speaker 1: Are you doing the right things? Is there a gap
Speaker 1: in your security set up and infrastructure? Right, there's nothing
Speaker 1: like that, So how do you benchmark? How do you
Speaker 1: rate these guys?
Speaker 2: That's there's no that's the thing. Accountability is not there Yeah, so.
Speaker 1: I think I don't know that this is going to
Speaker 1: lead a lot of people to Blackrock, ETF Fidelity ETF more.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's ETFs for sure. You have the exposure,
Speaker 2: but you don't necessarily you're not locked in. I mean
Speaker 2: that to me is very appealing for all generations.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think the majority of the people out there,
Speaker 1: if you walk up to them on the street, Amanda,
Speaker 1: you walk into hey, would you be comfortable and going
Speaker 1: to coinbase buying crypto, moving into a self custody hardware wallet,
Speaker 1: storing your sea phrase or would you rather go to
Speaker 1: where do you bank? Who do you investor with?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Fidelity? Would you just buy their bigcoey TF Yeah, towards.
Speaker 2: The big twenty Exactly. It's all convenience the minute. Even
Speaker 2: like in your first proposition, you have a million who
Speaker 2: are like, wait, what did you just say? Break it
Speaker 2: down for me what you just said. You still have
Speaker 2: a lot of people, remember, who don't even understand like
Speaker 2: what a cold wallet is or what you know these
Speaker 2: products are who are maybe somewhat interested in this industry
Speaker 2: and exploring it, but they they don't want that type
Speaker 2: of responsibility to even understand what that meat. They don't
Speaker 2: want that. They want someone else handling it for.
Speaker 1: Them, absolutely, because that's how they've been trained, that's what
Speaker 1: they're used to, right. They get the white glove service,
Speaker 1: with the black rocks of fidelities and much more. Even
Speaker 1: if you're investing via Robinhood, it's all taken care for you. You know,
Speaker 1: you don't have to think of any twice about is
Speaker 1: this secure? Do I need to have seed free? You
Speaker 1: just buy it right? Yeah?
Speaker 2: And I think it was really interesting that this particular
Speaker 2: company had already done a huge kol campaign, you know,
Speaker 2: with the Natalie Brunels and the Jack Mullett and had
Speaker 2: paid them spot like huge sponsorship money to endorse this product.
Speaker 2: So after this and this happened shortly after so back
Speaker 2: to your Tinfoil had. I think that's interesting that they
Speaker 2: got all these people to endorse their product and then
Speaker 2: boom went the dynamite. So and there was a lot
Speaker 2: of backlash because I think some of these people were
Speaker 2: coming out against it, but they're like, oh, yeah, after
Speaker 2: the fat, how much did they give you? You know,
Speaker 2: so it's kind of public knowledge.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Such a bad situation, man. I feel bad for
Speaker 1: the people lost their funds. But we got to figure
Speaker 1: out something here, you know, like you mentioned earlier, some
Speaker 1: sort of accountability, some sort of association organization that audits
Speaker 1: all these self custodial platforms. Obviously they don't get to
Speaker 1: see the seed phrases, right, but they get to see
Speaker 1: the infrastructure are their gaps And maybe it's like they
Speaker 1: have their own privateiers who are testing the and and
Speaker 1: you know, looking for bugs and looking for exploits.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: Now speaking of bitcoin and losing bitcoin strategy, Michael Saylor's
Speaker 1: strategy has sold more bitcoin, roughly about one hundred and
Speaker 1: five million dollars. It equates to about one thousand, six
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty eight bitcoin, So sailor what's interesting? He
Speaker 1: sold and then he had to go on some sort
Speaker 1: of pr campaign to address this. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you saw his tweet he's saying when I said I
Speaker 1: would never sell, I was talking about me.
Speaker 2: Yeah company, Yeah, he's been saying this. He's just he
Speaker 2: is a character, isn't he? But you know, all I
Speaker 2: can say the healthiest narrative here is coin existed before strategy,
Speaker 2: and it will exist after strategy. And just like with
Speaker 2: all these you know, entanglements with Clarity and Trump and
Speaker 2: these political figures. Bitcoin, you need to untie yourself from
Speaker 2: Michael Sailor right now. This is this is the best
Speaker 2: advice I can give you. This morning. I woke up
Speaker 2: to and I actually like this guy's podcast, Matt Bartlett
Speaker 2: The Diary of a CEO, And it's the whole memoent
Speaker 2: even Bartlett, thank you, And I love this guy. I
Speaker 2: think he's very articulate. The entire em of the podcast
Speaker 2: is for working, you know, very motivated everyday Americans who
Speaker 2: want something more of their lives. So he brings in
Speaker 2: kind of the rags to riches story and how you
Speaker 2: could do it yourself. And I think his worst guest
Speaker 2: to date is now Michael Sailor. So he has Michael
Speaker 2: on and he asks him the question should Americans own
Speaker 2: a home? And he very quickly says no, because two
Speaker 2: to three percent of that goes to government, so over
Speaker 2: time you're paying the value of the home. But instead,
Speaker 2: here's what the advice he gives is, you know that
Speaker 2: million dollars that of course every average American has sitting
Speaker 2: around at home, just invest that in commercial real estate
Speaker 2: and let your tenants pay it over time, and my
Speaker 2: jaw dropped. I mean, this is this guy is so
Speaker 2: out of touch. Here's your billionaire telling your middle class
Speaker 2: you know, average Joe Schmoe to go and best in
Speaker 2: corporate real estate and not not own a primary residence home.
Speaker 1: Unbelievable. Yeah, it's, like you said, so out of touch
Speaker 1: billionaire and he probably has multiple properties and telling you
Speaker 1: not to go buy your house. Man, this is what
Speaker 1: I hate about to your point, the personalities that are
Speaker 1: being attached to bitcoin. And there needs to be a
Speaker 1: separation because this guy, unfortunately is the face of bitcoin,
Speaker 1: and I hope over time there's a separation because he's
Speaker 1: just going around saying what do he wants to say?
Speaker 1: Out of touch and also talking up his book versus
Speaker 1: telling people, look, hey it's important to diversify. Definitely have
Speaker 1: some bitcoin, Sure, have some gold and buy your house.
Speaker 1: That would be pretty reasonable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's but you know, he also throws out I
Speaker 2: notice he does this. He throws out a lot of hypotheticals.
Speaker 2: It's a lot of pontificating, and then he throws out numbers,
Speaker 2: and you know, and and Steven Bartlett. He's very articulate.
Speaker 2: He asks great questions and he always kind of dances
Speaker 2: around the answer, and he just gives these statistics that
Speaker 2: whether they're true or not, if you're listening, he's not
Speaker 2: really saying anything. He's giving you, well, you know, five
Speaker 2: ten years from now, when gold appreciates from this number
Speaker 2: to this number, and when you do the you know,
Speaker 2: one hundred years from now, this could be where And
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, but you're not. No one can get
Speaker 2: proper advice by hypotheticals or from your made up data,
Speaker 2: like you need concrete answers, not these, and he always
Speaker 2: does that. I just I don't know who he's speaking to,
Speaker 2: but it's not relatable and it's not factual.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you're giving like examples of one hundred
Speaker 1: years and now, a lot of us are not going
Speaker 1: to be around on you with that. We need to
Speaker 1: know what can we do in the immediate right to
Speaker 1: the next ten years, right wait, so we can plan
Speaker 1: out our lives and live comfortably as best as possible.
Speaker 1: So it's ridiculous, man, And I look to your point.
Speaker 1: I love the Diary of CEO podcast with Stephen Barlett,
Speaker 1: but yeah, this is not a good guess. And a sailor,
Speaker 1: I think is doing some pr after the selling of
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of the bitcoin, so he's trying
Speaker 1: to put out a different narrative and bury the fact
Speaker 1: that he's been selling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well he's doing the AI thing. Remember on one
Speaker 2: of our episodes, I'm telling all the bitcoiners are slowly
Speaker 2: going to be bread crumbing the AI. Anthony Pompliano's doing it.
Speaker 2: Michael Sailor in the very beginning of this episode, if
Speaker 2: you can stomach listening to his voice, he talks about
Speaker 2: AI and how he made some lump sum of money
Speaker 2: through chat, GBT or one of these AI programs, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, there it is. They're all going to start
Speaker 2: because they know what's happening, and it's a good thing again,
Speaker 2: like the maturation of bitcoin. But they're all slowly trying
Speaker 2: to get away from being the face of bitcoin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a lot of these guys, you know, they
Speaker 1: were going, well they're Maxi's I guess, and they went
Speaker 1: all in on bitcoin, and it's like, bro, this is
Speaker 1: more than bitcoin. Bitcoin's important. I hold bitcoin and bullish
Speaker 1: on it, but there's more block out there that do
Speaker 1: different things that have more utility, and the institutions while
Speaker 1: they may offer bitcoin products they're actually building on Eve
Speaker 1: and Solon and these other blockchains, So of course it's
Speaker 1: going to fall apart because this is more than just bitcoin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think any any extreme or too much of
Speaker 2: something is never good. You can't go all in on,
Speaker 2: you know, and that's with any asset, any You just
Speaker 2: you have to diversify your portfolio, you know, your career,
Speaker 2: like you should not just go all in. Not a
Speaker 2: big mistake.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So for everyone watching a list saying Amana and
Speaker 1: I are big believers in diversifying, Like I'm super heavy
Speaker 1: on crypto, you know my portfolio, but I have diversification
Speaker 1: into stocks, ETFs, bonds, gold as well. So we would
Speaker 1: never come out here and say you can only buy
Speaker 1: bitcoin only whole bitcoin and everything else is garbage, Like
Speaker 1: that's not Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, and look at the face that you know, even
Speaker 2: in his answer of you know, don't do the primary
Speaker 2: residence and he's talking to I'm sorry, the wealthy elites
Speaker 2: who have a million dollars hanging around to play the casino.
Speaker 2: It's like saying, Amanda, take your savings and go to
Speaker 2: Vegas because if you have that privilege, you know, and
Speaker 2: here's the guy who is the face of a bitcoin,
Speaker 2: which the origin story this libertarian movement, you know, for
Speaker 2: the people who were trying to have a better life,
Speaker 2: you know, your djens who were against the government to
Speaker 2: try and make to try and restore the American dream.
Speaker 2: Really it's very it's the antithesis of their entire movement,
Speaker 2: which is where he's so hypocritical in his answer and
Speaker 2: also being the face of bitcoin. And that's the other
Speaker 2: problem is when you double down in that identity, you
Speaker 2: are somewhere along the way going to contradict yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, and it's your key word of contradiction. Where
Speaker 1: this is not Stoci's vision. When Sutoshi wrote the white paper,
Speaker 1: he she or day whatever did make Michael Saylor to
Speaker 1: god a bitcoin leveraging a debt and now eventually having
Speaker 1: to force and lying to for sell and lying to people.
Speaker 1: Come on, if so, if Soshi was appear today, I
Speaker 1: don't think he would be in agreement with what's happened.
Speaker 2: No, not at all. That's what's so frustrating is like
Speaker 2: you made you and simply for owning the most bitcoin,
Speaker 2: you become the face. Okay, fine, I don't I don't
Speaker 2: like the reasoning, but okay, good for you. You got
Speaker 2: in early, and now you're the face to try to
Speaker 2: be consistent. You're not even trying to be consistent, you know.
Speaker 2: And I find the PR campaign to be interesting to
Speaker 2: the diary of a CEO is way. That's probably one
Speaker 2: of the most personal interviews I've seen of him. You know,
Speaker 2: he mostly stays and has stayed within our ecosystem as
Speaker 2: far as press is concerned. This was a little outside
Speaker 2: of that, So I thought that was interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think he's looking for all avenues to
Speaker 1: just get that PR up because of all the selling.
Speaker 1: And I mean, if you look at his tweet about
Speaker 1: you know, saying, oh I didn't I'm still holding, but
Speaker 1: the company is selling. You just look at the comments,
Speaker 1: it's all dragging him and roasting him. If he had
Speaker 1: simply came out and I think we talked about it
Speaker 1: in one of our episodes before and said, hey, guys, look,
Speaker 1: due to the following reasons, we're gonna have to sell
Speaker 1: some of our bigcoin. And I know in the past
Speaker 1: I've said such and such, I posted things, and if
Speaker 1: he was upfront about it, I don't think you would
Speaker 1: be getting as much criticism and heat. But he just
Speaker 1: kept lying and it's like, bro, I don't care if
Speaker 1: you're selling bitcoin, I care that you're not telling the
Speaker 1: truth exactly.
Speaker 2: And he's been caught in a lot of that, like
Speaker 2: take onus. That's all the people are asking from you,
Speaker 2: and he just he's doubling down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, like you said, we need some
Speaker 1: separation here. He should not be to face a Bitcoin
Speaker 1: bigcoin should just be bitcoin and the crypto industry. And
Speaker 1: there's not a face per se, there's not a personality.
Speaker 1: So we need to heal from this. So we need
Speaker 1: to have some therapy and separation from this well.
Speaker 2: And it's also the it's become like a religious mentality too,
Speaker 2: because he has a cult following. Whether these people are
Speaker 2: being paid by him or not, you know, I'm not
Speaker 2: sure it would seem.
Speaker 1: So I know for a fact that's something not all
Speaker 1: but some are paid, and thoughts as well.
Speaker 2: That needs to that needs to unravel too. This whole
Speaker 2: house of cards needs to come down, and and it'll
Speaker 2: be interesting to see the tides turn once people break
Speaker 2: away from that, because I think you'll start to see
Speaker 2: differences and opinions. When everybody's being paid. You know you're not,
Speaker 2: You're not going to hear somebody speak out of turn
Speaker 2: from Michael Saylor, who you know identifies as a bitcoin maxie.
Speaker 2: I'm waiting for the day where somebody finally blows the whistle.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I saw someone. I think he posted that
Speaker 1: they're going to be contributing to the Trump accounts, which
Speaker 1: is good, that's a good thing. But someone was saying
Speaker 1: this is probably his get out of jail free card,
Speaker 1: maybe trying to you know, buddy up to Trump because
Speaker 1: something maybe not right.
Speaker 2: Mark Zuckerberg, Mark Zuckerberg to remember this, he hated him,
Speaker 2: spoke at it, and all of a sudden he was
Speaker 2: there at his inauguration. It's like, oh, okay, I know
Speaker 2: how this works.
Speaker 1: Yeah I've seen that too. There's some other guys. I'm
Speaker 1: not going to drop me and drop but I know,
Speaker 1: I know for a fact the way they're acting, because
Speaker 1: it's it. It becomes sickophans. It's one thing to support
Speaker 1: a politician. You can vote for them, but don't become
Speaker 1: a sicka fhan right, and the people can see through it, like, bro,
Speaker 1: what are you doing? You know?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you'll lose You'll lose a lot of credibility.
Speaker 2: That's for sure. And again while these people are playing
Speaker 2: you know, chess with with the government. Again, you've got
Speaker 2: the institutions that just don't care they win in every
Speaker 2: They don't care to kiss, but they don't have to kiss.
Speaker 2: But because at the end of the day, the government
Speaker 2: has to work with them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, I can imagine that the black
Speaker 1: Rocks and the Fidelities and those who have the crypto ETFs,
Speaker 1: they would love to see sail Or fail because they
Speaker 1: want the big the money to come to their fund. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: not to stop preferred stock away.
Speaker 2: Well get ready, thanks with the lets the club gates open.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it's that would be pretty nasty, you know,
Speaker 1: if that were to happen, because you know, it's the
Speaker 1: amount of debt and the amount of big cooiny he holds.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we shall see. Yeah, but Amanda, hopefully the
Speaker 1: next time we're meeting in a couple of weeks, I
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe we're getting some glimmer of hope for
Speaker 1: the Clarity Act that potentially, you know, September something had happened,
Speaker 1: But who knows at this point where we're gonna have
Speaker 1: to wait and see.
Speaker 2: We it's a it's a total hurry up and wait,
Speaker 2: but we will be here with all the updates.
Speaker 1: Thank you Tony, Thanks everybody for tuning in catching the
Speaker 1: next one.