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Speaker 1: Welcome back to thrilling Threads. I have to say, usually

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when we sit down to record, we have a pretty

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general idea of where the world is heading. We've got

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our stack of papers, we have our coffee, and we're

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looking at things in the past tense. But every once

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in a while, the news cycle just it just freezes,

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it completely stops, yeah, and you realize you're watching history

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unfold in real time.

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Speaker 2: It is rare, but that recent breaking news was certainly

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one of those days where you know, you remember exactly

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where you were when the notification popped up on your phone.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, if you were anywhere near a screen, you saw it.

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Breaking news banners, frantic reporters standing outside a very famous

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estate in the rain, and a headline that frankly looked

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like it belonged in a like a movie script or

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a season finale of a drama, not on the BBC.

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Speaker 2: It's the kind of headline that historians will be analyzing

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fifty years from now. I mean, it shifts the entire

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paradigm of what we think is possible within a constitutional

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monarchy exactly.

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Speaker 1: We are talking, of course, about the arrest of the

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man formerly known as Prince Andrew. Now officially Andrew moult

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Batten windsor right British police, specifically the Thames Valley Police

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rolling up to the Sandrigam estate and arresting the King's

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brother and on his sixty sixth birthday.

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Speaker 2: No less, the irony of that timing is well, it's certainly.

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Speaker 1: Not lost on anyone, no, not at all.

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Speaker 2: But beyond the irony, the stakes here are astronomically high.

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We aren't talking about a tabloid scandal anymore. We aren't

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talking about, you know, civil lawsuits in America where you

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can just settle out of court right with a passing

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check exactly. We are talking about a criminal arrest on

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British soil for misconduct in public office.

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Speaker 1: Which that phrase misconduct in public office, it sounds so bureaucratic,

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doesn't it It does.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like an HR violation.

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Speaker 1: Like someone filed the wrong tax form or used the

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wrong ink on a building permit. But as we dug

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into the source material for this deep dive into the

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watch Mojo reporting, it became really clear that.

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Speaker 2: This is this is heavy, It's extremely heavy.

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Speaker 1: This is serious.

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Speaker 2: It is a common law offense that carries a maximum

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penalty of life imprisonment, life life. Now we need to

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be careful with that. Maximums are ceilings, they're not predictions,

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but it signals that the authorities are looking at a

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fundamental abuse of power. It's the charge you use when

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the breach of trust is so severe it literally breaks

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the system.

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Speaker 1: Exactly. So for you listening, here is our mission for

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today's deep dies into the source material. We are going

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to pull on every single loose thread of this story.

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Speaker 2: And there are a lot of them, so many.

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Speaker 1: We're going to look at the arrest itself, what actually

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went down at Sandringham. We're going to decode that specific

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charge and why they chose it, because the legal strategy

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is fascinating.

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Speaker 2: And perhaps most importantly, we need to connect the dots

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back to the catalyst for all of this, the United

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States Department of Justice and the Epstein files that dropped

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back in January.

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Speaker 1: Right, because that is where the narrative shifts from just

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a sleazy personal life to potential state corruption. We've got goal,

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we've got uranium, government reports from Vietnam and China, and

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a global fallout that reaches all the way to the

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Norwegian royal family. It is quite literally a thriller coming

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to life. So are you ready to see if anyone

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is truly above the law?

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Speaker 2: I am very ready. Let's unravel this.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's start with the scene on the ground, the

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location Sandraham. Now, for those of you listening who don't

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follow the daily movements of the royals or haven't watched

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the crown paint the picture for us, why does this

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specific location matter so much?

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Speaker 2: Context is everything here? Sandringham isn't a state palace like

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Buckingham Palace. Buckingham Palace is effectively a giant office building.

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Speaker 1: It's a workplace exactly.

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Speaker 2: And it's not a fortress like Windsor. Sandrangham is in Norfolk.

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It is the private country retreat of the monarch. It's

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supposed to be a sanctuary. It's where the family goes

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to shoot pheasants, walk the dogs and just pretend to

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be normal country aristocrat.

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Speaker 1: Right. It's the holiday home, the safe space.

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Speaker 2: Precisely, and it's where Andrew has been living. Remember he

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was effectively removed from his home in Windsor, the Royal Lodge,

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after years of wrangling and the King really wanting him

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to downsize.

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Speaker 1: I remember that whole saga.

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Speaker 2: Right, So Sanjongham was the retreat. It was the place

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he went to hide from the public eye.

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Speaker 1: And then suddenly that Thames Valley Police show up. I

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mean the visual of that is staggering. You have the

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King's private estate, usually guarded by elite royal protection officers,

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suddenly being breached by an external police force.

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Speaker 2: And notice the unit involved here, pemes Valley Police. They

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aren't the local Norfolk Constabulary. Oh really Yeah, Thames Valley

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covers Berkshire, which is where Windsor is. This implies that

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the investigation originated from his time at Windsor Or. It's

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being led by a specialist unit that operates out of

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that jurisdiction. They didn't just knock on the door, they

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executed a highly coordinated raid.

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Speaker 1: Wow. And the official statement they released was incredibly dry.

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Wasn't it just a man in his sixties from Norfolk?

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Speaker 2: That is standard police procedure in the UK. They rarely

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name a suspect upon arrest unless there is an imminent

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threat to the public, like an actor shooter or something exactly.

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But the description a man in his sixties from Norfolk,

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coupled with the location of the search, it left zero

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room for doubt it's the Voldemort treatment. Everyone knew who

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they were talking about instantly.

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Speaker 1: He who must not be named. Yeah, it's surreal to

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think about it. I mean, usually when the police are

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involved with the royal family, it's minor. It's stuff we

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chuckle about in the tabloids.

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Speaker 2: Right we think of Princess Anne getting a fine because

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her dog attacks someone in the park. Yes, or perhaps

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Prince Philip God Rest his soul, having that car crash

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a few years back near Sandringham.

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Speaker 1: M hm.

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Speaker 2: Those are civil matters, minor infractions, traffic stops. Yeah, this

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a raid on a royal estate for a serious criminal inquiry.

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Robert Jobson, a veteran royal commentator who usually has a

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very steady hand on them these things, put it best.

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He called it truly.

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Speaker 1: Historic because it's never happened in the modern era.

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Speaker 2: Never. We are in completely uncharted waters. The visual alone

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police cars entering the gates of Sangraingham, not to protect

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the occupant, but to arrest him. It shatters the mystique

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of the monarchy in a way that is hard to

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even quantify.

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Speaker 1: It really bridges that gap between the Crown as this

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divine institution and the individual as just a regular subject.

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Speaker 2: Of the law exactly.

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Speaker 1: But we do have to clarify for the listeners. He

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hasn't been officially charged yet. Right at the moment of

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the arrest. The phrasing was on suspicion.

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Speaker 2: That is a crucial distinction and we need to be

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very precise here. In the British legal system, and arrest

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allows the police to detain a suspect. It brings them

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into the system. It allows them to question the suspect

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under caution, meaning anything they say can be used in evidence.

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It also allows them to secure evidence.

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Speaker 1: What explains the searches. They didn't just arrest him. They

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search the premises exactly.

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Speaker 2: There's properties in Berkshire and Norfolk. By arresting him, they

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can seize laptops, phones, hard drives, physical documents. If they

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just asked him to come in for a friendly chat voluntarily,

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he could theoretically delete emails or shred papers while they

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were waiting. The arrest preserves the integrity of the investigation.

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But you are right, it is not a conviction and

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it is not yet a formal charge filed by the

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Crown Prosecution Service.

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Speaker 1: But you don't raid Sandringham on a hunch. You don't

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kick down the King's door unless you are absolutely sure

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you have something.

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Speaker 2: Precisely, the threshold for authorizing this operation would have been

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incredibly high. A judge would have had to sign off

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on those warrants. The Chief Constable would be heavily involved.

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Speaker 1: They know the whole world is watching.

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Speaker 2: They do, and if they get this wrong, heads will roll,

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careers will end. So the fact that they moved at

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all suggests they have something very substantial.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about what something substantial looks like. Mentioned

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the term earlier misconduct in public office. When I first

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read that in the watch Mojo report, I thought, Okay,

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did he yell at a butler? Did he misuse the

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Royal credit card for a pizza? Right?

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Speaker 2: The Pizza Express defense?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you're telling me it's much darker and legally

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much more complex than that.

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Speaker 2: It is much more systemic. Misconduct in public office is

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a fascinating charge because it's not a statutory offense.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean.

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Speaker 2: It means it's not written in a specific act of

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Parliament like the Theft Act or the Fraud Act. It's

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a common law offense. That means it has evolved through

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centuries of judges making rulings.

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Speaker 1: This is really old school law, very old school.

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Speaker 2: And because it's common law, it's flexible. But to make

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the charge actually stick, the prosecution has to prove four

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very specific elements. We can call them the four threads

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of the case.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's unspool these threads for the audience. What is

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thread won?

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Speaker 2: First, the defendant must be a public officer acting as such. Now,

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this is where the defense might start fighting immediately. Andrew

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is or was a prince? Is being a prince a

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public office? Or is it just a birthright?

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Speaker 1: That's a really good point. You don't apply for a

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job to be a prince, you don't get hired. You're

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just born into it.

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Speaker 2: Correct. However, for years amerweld a very specific, taxpayer funded role.

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From two thousand and one all the way to twenty eleven,

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he served as the United Kingdom's Special Representative for International

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Trade and.

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Speaker 1: Investment, the Trade Envoy. I remember this era. He was

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basically the UK's super salesman, flying around the world, going

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to banquets, trying to get countries to buy British goods.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. That role had a specific job description, it had

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government funding, it had a mandate to represent British interests abroad.

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So in the context of his work as Trade envoy,

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he was absolutely a public officer.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so Thread one, was he a public officer? The

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answer is almost certainly yes.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: What's thread too?

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Speaker 2: There must be a willful breach of duty. This speaks

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to intent. It cannot be an accident. You can't just

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be incompetent at your job. You have to know you

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are doing something wrong, or at least be recklessly indifferent

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to the consequences.

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Speaker 1: Lessly indifferent that feels like a phrase that could describe

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a lot of his decisions over the last decade.

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Speaker 2: It certainly fits the pattern of behavior we've seen publicly,

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but legally they have to prove he knew or should

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have known, that sharing specific information was wrong.

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Speaker 1: Got it re Read Three?

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Speaker 2: The misconduct must be an abuse of the public's trust.

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This is really the moral core of the law. The

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public gave you power, access and status to help them.

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If you use it to help yourself or to help

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your private friends, you are abusing that trust. It's about

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the betrayal of the office itself.

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Speaker 1: And the final thread.

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Speaker 2: The conduct must be serious enough to deserve criminal punishment.

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This separates it from a mere disciplinary issue. If you

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show up late to a meeting as trade envoy, or

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if you are rude to a foreign diplomat, that's bad.

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Speaker 1: You might get fired, but you won't go to jails.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, it's not criminal to be misconduct in public office.

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It has to be egregious, it has to be a

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literal affront to the state.

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Speaker 1: He reflects that severity. You mentioned life imprisonment earlier.

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Speaker 2: That is the maximum. And again I want to stress

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for the listeners. If he is charged and convicted, it

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is highly unlikely a judge would give a first time

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offender life imprisonment. But the fact that life is the

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ceiling tells you how the law of views this crime.

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It puts it in the exact same bracket as serious corruption,

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espionage or major fraud. It's a system saying you broke

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the machine.

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Speaker 1: It's not about ordinary bad behavior, it's not about having

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gross friends. It's about abusive power.

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Speaker 2: It connects his behavior directly to his role as a

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servant of the UK, and that brings us to the

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question everyone is asking today, why now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he stepped down his trade envoy in twenty eleven.

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That's fifteen years ago. Why are the police arresting him

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in twenty twenty six?

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Speaker 2: And the answer to that lies in the massive document

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dump from the US, doesn't it. It's the transatlantic connection.

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Speaker 1: It does. We have to look at the catalyst. Without

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the US Department of Justice, this rate at Sandringham simply

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never happens.

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Speaker 2: Let's unpack this for you, guys. January twenty twenty six,

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the DOJ releases a new batch of Epstein related material.

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Now we've had releases.

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Speaker 1: Before, plenty of them.

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Speaker 2: Usually they are socialists, flight logs, actor X was on

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the plane, politician, why was that the island?

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Speaker 1: It's embarrassing for those people, but often that's not actual

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proof of a crime.

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Speaker 2: For the guest, right, being on a plane with a

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bad person isn't illegal in itself. It's terrible judgment. But

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the January twenty twenty six release changed the texture of

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the evidence completely. We stopped looking at social diaries and

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we started looking at business records because.

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Speaker 1: Suddenly we weren't reading about massages or private island trips.

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We're reading about government reports.

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Speaker 2: Correct. The sources highlight that these files allegedly show that Andrew,

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while acting as trade envoy around twenty ten forwarded sensitive

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government documents directly to Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 1: What kind of documents are we talking about? Were were talking

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about travel itineraries, like hey, I'll be in town on Tuesday.

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Speaker 2: No, we are talking about briefing reports from his official

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visits to Vietnam, Singapore and China. These are high level

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diplomatic and commercial reports. They would likely contain commercial secrets,

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private assessments of foreign governments, perhaps information on impending regulation changes.

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Speaker 1: And he just emailed them to Epstein, just like, Hey, Jeff,

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look at this cool state secret I found.

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Speaker 2: That is the allegation, and it gets even more specific

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and frankly more thrilling in a terrifying way. The documents

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reportedly reference investment opportunities in gold and uranium in Afghanistan.

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Speaker 1: Whoa whoa uranium? Yes, uranium, Okay, hold on uranium? Isn't

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just a commodity like coffee beans or pork bellies. That's strategic,

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that's national security level stuff, that's energy, that's weapons.

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Speaker 2: It certainly can be. And this is where the quid

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pro quo analysis comes into play. Why would the UK

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Trade envoy send this incredibly sensitive information to a disgraced

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financier Remember, by twenty ten, Epstein was already a convicted

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sex offender. He had already served time in Florida.

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Speaker 1: Right, he wasn't some respectable Wall Street banker anymore. He

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was a pariah, or at least he should have been.

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Speaker 2: The theory, and again, this is what the police are

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investigating based on the Watch Mudge reporting, is that Andrew

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was providing Epstein with inside information. Epstein, as a ruthless financier,

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could use that information to front run markets.

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Speaker 1: How did that work?

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Speaker 2: Well, if he knows where the UK is looking for

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uranium before the open market does, he can buy mineral rights,

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he can shortstocks or leverage other players. He monetizes the

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information that Andrew was supposed to be safeguarding.

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Speaker 1: So Andrew goes on a taxpayer funded trip to China

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or Afghanistan. He learns about a massive deal and instead

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of keeping that for British companies, which is literally his job,

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he slips a note to Epstein under the table.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. It's the privatization of state intelligence.

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Speaker 1: And what did Andrew get in return? Because people don't

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usually give away uranium secrets are free.

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Speaker 2: Well, that is the million dollar question for investigators. We

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know Epstein bankrolled a lifestyle that Andrew really struggled to

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afford on his official income alone. We've all seen the

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reports of the private the lavish vacations, the loans that

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never seem to have clear repayment terms. The police will

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be looking to draw direct line information goes out, money

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or favors come in.

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Speaker 1: If they can prove that that's corruption, pure and simple.

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Speaker 2: It completely reframes the narrative. For years, the story was

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Andrew is a sleazy guy who wouldn't drop a bad

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friend because he was blindly loyal. Now the story is

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Andrew may have sold out his country's interest to a

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predator in exchange for cash.

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Speaker 1: It shifts the victim pool too. Obviously, the primary victims

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of Epstein are the young women and girls who were abused.

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That never changes, but this charge suggests there is a

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secondary victim here, the British public.

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Speaker 2: It's a betrayal of trust on a massive scale, and

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it explains why the police absolutely had to act. You

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can't ignore evidence of a public official trading state secrets,

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even if he is the King's brother. In fact, you

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have to act because he is the King's brother, just

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to prove the system isn't completely rigged, you know.

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Speaker 1: Thinking about this timeline, the long fall of Prince Andrew,

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it's like watching a slow motion car crash that's been

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going on for fifteen years.

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Speaker 2: It is a cumulative collapse. The Epstein link isn't a

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new revelation, It's the through line of his entire post

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navy life. It just keeps resurfacing, like a booy held underwater.

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Speaker 1: I still remember that BBC Newsnight interview in twenty nineteen,

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the Emily maitliss One. I remember watching it live in

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my living room and just my jaw was practically on

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the floor.

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Speaker 2: It was a masterclass in how not to handle a crisis.

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It is literally taught in pr schools now as the

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ultimate failure.

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Speaker 1: The quotes from that are legendary for all the wrong reasons.

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I was at Pete's Express in Woking. I don't sweat

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because of an adrenaline overdose in the Falklands. These lines

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became instant Internet memes.

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Speaker 2: They really did.

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Speaker 1: But looking back now, the most damaging part wasn't the

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weird medical excuse about sweating. It was the total lack

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of empathy.

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Speaker 2: And his explanation for his continued friendship do you remember

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his logic for staying at Epstein's New York mansion after

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Epstein was a convicted sex offender.

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Speaker 1: Yes, he said he went there in person to break

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off the friendship.

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Speaker 2: Which is absurd on its face. You don't fly across

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the Atlantic Ocean and stand someone's house for four days

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just to say we're done. No, you send an email,

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you make a phone call.

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Speaker 1: And his quote to justify it, he said it was

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a convenient place to stay.

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Speaker 2: That's the one he admitted to staying in the mansion

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of a convicted sex offender because it was convenient for him.

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That level of entitlement, that total lack of judgment, It

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foreshadowed everything we are seeing now with this arrest. He

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prioritized his own comfort over basic morality.

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Speaker 1: It's that inability to see how things look to the

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rest of the world. He thought he could just sit

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down and explain it away to the public. Oh, I

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was too honorable. I couldn't just ghost him.

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Speaker 2: Too honorable, that was the phrase he used. He tried

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to frame his vice as a virtue, and that arrogance

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is what led to the institutional distancing we've seen from

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the monarchy over the last few years.

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Speaker 1: They saw the writing on the wall.

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Speaker 2: They saw it long before the police arrived at Sandringham.

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Speaker 1: It's been a really stematics stripping away of his identity.

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It's like they've been erasing him from the family picture. Slowly.

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Speaker 2: Look at the timeline for a second. January twenty twenty two,

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facing the civil suit from Virginia Jeufrey, he loses his

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military titles and his patronages. He stops using his Royal

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Highness in any official capacity. Then in twenty twenty five

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he is formally stripped of styles, titles and honors. He

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officially becomes Just Andrew Mountbatten Windsor.

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Speaker 1: That must sting for a man who was born a prince,

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who was second in line to the throne when he

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was born, to end up is just Andrew.

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Speaker 2: It is a total identity collapse, and the arrest is

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really the final nail in that coffin the institution of

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the monarchy has been cutting him loose, piece by piece

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to ensure that when this moment came, when the police

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car pulled up, he was standing alone.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't wrapped in the flag anymore.

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Speaker 2: He was just a man.

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Speaker 1: That brings us to the King, King Charles, the third,

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this has to be his absolute nightmare scenario his first

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years on the throne. He's trying to modernize the institution,

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he's trying to keep the Commonwealth together, and his brother

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is being rated by the police for corruption involving uranium.

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Speaker 2: It is a nightmare. But look at a statement. It

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was very carefully calibrated. Every single word was chosen by

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top tier lawyers and pr strategists.

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Speaker 1: They said, the King expressed deep concern.

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Speaker 2: Deep concern. Yes, that acknowledges the family bond. He's not

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pretending they aren't related. But look at the rest of it.

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He emphasized a full, fair and proper process. He said

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the authorities have our full and wholehearted support and cooperation.

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Speaker 1: He's not defending him. He's not coming out and saying

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my brother is innocent of these charges.

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Speaker 2: Not at all. He is doing the exact opposite. He

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is signaling to the public and the police, we are

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not getting in the way. Do your job.

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Speaker 1: It's what you called containment mode in your notes.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. The monarchy survives by adapting. If they were seen

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to be protecting Andrew, obstructing justice, or using their immense

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influence to make this go away, quietly. It could trigger

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a constitutional crisis.

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Speaker 1: It really could.

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Speaker 2: It could end the monarchy in the modern era. The

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public would simply not stand for it.

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Speaker 1: There's that saying you mentioned, the one about trust.

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Speaker 2: Trust comes in on foot and leaves on horseback.

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Speaker 1: That is such a vivid image for what's happening here.

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It takes forever to build trust, step by step, year

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by year, and then it just gallops away in a second.

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Speaker 2: The royal family knows their trust levels are fragile right now,

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between the Harry and Megan saga, the delicate transition from

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Elizabeth to Charles. They cannot afford a corruption scandal of

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this magnitude. So Charles is effectively saying, he is my brother,

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and I am concerned as a brother, but the law

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is the law.

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Speaker 1: He's sacrificing the brother to save the crown.

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Speaker 2: In cold, hard terms, Yes, he is cutting off the

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gangrenous limb to save the body. It's ruthless, but frankly

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it's the only move he has left.

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Speaker 1: But this isn't just a British problem anymore. The threats

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of our show title are going global today. We mentioned

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the DOJ files, but there was another name that popped

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up in those files that surprised a lot of people.

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No Norwegian connection.

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Speaker 2: Yes, this is the mirror to the Andrew situation. It

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shows just how far Epstein's web stretched across global royalty.

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The files implicated Crown Princess met Merit of Norway.

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Speaker 1: Now she's the future Queen of Norway. This isn't a

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minor figure or a distant cousin.

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Speaker 2: She is directly in line and the emails revealed a

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close personal friendship with Epstein that continued well after his

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two thousand and eight condiction.

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Speaker 1: This is the pattern. Everyone always claims, oh I barely

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knew him, or I met him once at a charity gala,

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but the digital footprint always tells a different story.

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Speaker 2: Always. In twenty nineteen, the Norwegian Palace downplayed it heavily,

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saying contact was minimal. But the twenty twenty six files

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show she borrowed his Florida property in twenty thirteen they

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were emailing back and forth. It was significant contact.

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Speaker 1: And she actually had to apologize.

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Speaker 2: She did. She issued a formal statement admitting poor judgment

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and apologizing for not being truthful about the extent of

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the contact. But here is the key connection back to Andrew.

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On the day Andrew was arrested, yesyesterday, the Norwegian Palace

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made a very quiet but incredibly loud announcement.

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Speaker 1: They took his metal back.

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Speaker 2: They confirmed that Andrew returned the Order of Saint Olov,

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which he actually received way back in nineteen eighty eight.

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Speaker 1: That's huge symbolism. It's like being formally kicked out of

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the global VIP club. It is.

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Speaker 2: Nations give these orders as signs of deep respect and

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diplomatic friendship. It's the highest honor Norway can give a foreigner.

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When a foreign nation says we don't want you wearing

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our star anymore, it is a diplomatic death sentence. Yeah,

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it shows how toxic the association with Epstein and now

475
00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:36,559
this specific corruption charge has become globally. Norway doesn't want

476
00:22:36,599 --> 00:22:37,599
to be anywhere near him.

477
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,880
Speaker 1: It's amazing how Epstein is still toxic from the grave.

478
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,799
He's like this radioactive isotope that just contaminates everyone he

479
00:22:44,839 --> 00:22:45,400
ever touched.

480
00:22:45,599 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 2: That is an incredibly apt metaphor, and for Andrew, the

481
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,519
contamination is now total. He has lost his domestic standing,

482
00:22:52,599 --> 00:22:55,799
his military standing, and now his international standing.

483
00:22:56,279 --> 00:22:58,640
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the reaction from the people who actually

484
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,079
matter most. In the Epstein's store, the victims, we heard

485
00:23:02,079 --> 00:23:04,240
a statement from Virginia Jeffray's siblings.

486
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,559
Speaker 2: Yes, it was incredibly powerful to read. They said, our

487
00:23:07,599 --> 00:23:10,400
broken hearts have been lifted. But the line that really

488
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,319
struck me was he was never a prince.

489
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 1: He was never a prince. That gives me chills just

490
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:16,400
hearing it.

491
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 2: It strips him of his identity in the eyes of

492
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,680
the victims. It says that nobility isn't about a title

493
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,920
you're born with. It's about your conduct. It's about how

494
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,680
you treat people who have less power than you, exactly,

495
00:23:26,799 --> 00:23:30,119
and in their eyes, his conduct was never noble. It's

496
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,960
a moral verdict that hits so much harder than any

497
00:23:33,079 --> 00:23:34,079
legal one ever could.

498
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,319
Speaker 1: And then you have the political reaction. The sources noted

499
00:23:37,319 --> 00:23:40,799
Prime Minister Keir Starmer's response. He didn't mince words either.

500
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 2: He couldn't. He leaned right into the foundational principle nobody

501
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,279
is above the law. Now it's a safe political line,

502
00:23:47,319 --> 00:23:50,079
but in this specific context it's a warning. It tells

503
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,680
the police and the prosecutors don't be afraid to pursue this.

504
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,480
It gives them the political cover they need to go

505
00:23:56,599 --> 00:23:57,440
after a Royal.

506
00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: Now, I know we have listeners from all over the

507
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,400
place spectrum and we always want to just report what

508
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,200
our sources say without taking sides. So the anti monarchy

509
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,880
group Republic they are having a field day with this

510
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:09,920
according to the reporting.

511
00:24:10,079 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 2: Naturally, they claim they submitted a report that helped lead

512
00:24:13,279 --> 00:24:16,960
to this specific arrest. For them, this is proof that

513
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:21,000
the hereditary principle is fundamentally flawed, that it puts power

514
00:24:21,079 --> 00:24:24,440
in the hands of people who are totally unaccountable. They

515
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:29,400
are framing this as a massive victory for accountability, and honestly,

516
00:24:29,559 --> 00:24:31,839
looking at the framing from the sources, it's hard to

517
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,480
argue against that narrative right now. If the system works,

518
00:24:34,599 --> 00:24:35,559
this is what it looks like.

519
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,319
Speaker 1: But we have to be the cool heads in the

520
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,519
room here. We have to look at the actual legal reality.

521
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,680
You mentioned earlier that misconduct in public office is notoriously

522
00:24:44,759 --> 00:24:47,359
hard to prove in court. Why is that.

523
00:24:47,559 --> 00:24:50,799
Speaker 2: Because the bar for criminality is so high. You have

524
00:24:50,839 --> 00:24:53,279
to prove that the breach of duty was wilful and

525
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,839
serious beyond a reasonable doubt. Andrew's lawyers and he will

526
00:24:56,839 --> 00:24:59,640
have the absolute best legal team money can buy. They

527
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,920
will argue that sharing those documents was part of his job.

528
00:25:03,279 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 1: Wait, how so, how do you argue that sending classified

529
00:25:06,079 --> 00:25:09,440
uranium info to a convicted sex offender is part of

530
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:10,240
the job description.

531
00:25:10,519 --> 00:25:13,319
Speaker 2: They might argue it was aggressive networking, that he was

532
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,279
trying to build rapport with a major global financier to

533
00:25:17,799 --> 00:25:20,960
eventually bring massive investment into the UK. They will stand

534
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,759
up in court and say, look, maybe it was clumsy

535
00:25:22,799 --> 00:25:25,519
and maybe it was heavily against protocol, but it wasn't criminal.

536
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,119
He was trying to help the UK economy. He was

537
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:29,880
just doing it in an unorthodox way.

538
00:25:30,039 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: So the defense strategy is basically incompetence not malice.

539
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 2: Effectively, yes, I'm a fool, not a correct defense. It's

540
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,359
a risky strategy, but it might be enough to create

541
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,480
reasonable doubt regarding the willful abuse thread. They just need

542
00:25:44,519 --> 00:25:46,920
to convince one or two jurors that he genuinely thought

543
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:47,880
he was helping Britain.

544
00:25:48,319 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 1: And what about the harm aspect? Do the prosecutors have

545
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,799
to prove the UK actually lost money on these deals?

546
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 2: Not necessarily, but it helps the prosecution immensely if they

547
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,200
can show tangible damage. If the information about uranium or

548
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,440
gold was used by Epstein to undercut a British bid. Well,

549
00:26:04,599 --> 00:26:07,799
that's a smoking gun. But if Epstein just had the

550
00:26:07,839 --> 00:26:10,720
info and did nothing with it, it becomes murkier, becomes

551
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,000
a debate of potential harm versus actual harm.

552
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 1: So where are we right now? The clock is literally.

553
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,079
Speaker 2: Ticking literally in the UK. When you are arrested, the

554
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,480
PAC clock starts ticking. That's the Police and Criminal Evidence Act.

555
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 1: What does that process even look like for a royal?

556
00:26:26,759 --> 00:26:29,599
Is he sitting sipping tea in a VIP lounge somewhere?

557
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,599
Speaker 2: I highly doubt it. Procedurally it looks exactly the same

558
00:26:32,599 --> 00:26:34,319
as it does for you or me. He would have

559
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,359
been taken to a police station. He would have been

560
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,200
booked in by a custody sergeant at.

561
00:26:38,079 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 1: A desk, fingerprints, mugshot.

562
00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:45,079
Speaker 2: Fingerprints, DNA swab photos, the whole works. He would have

563
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,240
his rights read to him. Formally, he is entitled to

564
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,839
free legal advice, though I suspect he brought his own

565
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:51,960
high powered team.

566
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 1: With him, and then he just sits in a cell He.

567
00:26:53,839 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 2: Sits in a holding cellar and interview room and the

568
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,200
police initially have twenty four hours to either charge him

569
00:27:00,279 --> 00:27:01,000
or release him.

570
00:27:01,279 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 1: Only twenty four hours That seems incredibly short for a

571
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,680
case with international documents and decades of evidence.

572
00:27:07,759 --> 00:27:10,799
Speaker 2: Initially, yes, but they can apply to a senior officer

573
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,359
to extend that to thirty six hours, and then for

574
00:27:13,599 --> 00:27:16,039
very serious crimes like this, they can apply to a

575
00:27:16,079 --> 00:27:18,880
court to a magistrate to hold him for up to

576
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:19,880
ninety six hours.

577
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 1: Wow, so four days right.

578
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 2: Given the sheer complexity of international documents and translating decades

579
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,960
old evidence, they might push for that full time to

580
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,960
get all their ducks in a row before making a move.

581
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,279
Speaker 1: So we basically have three scenarios here. Let's gain them

582
00:27:32,319 --> 00:27:35,759
out for the listeners. Scenario one, charges are filed, the.

583
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,599
Speaker 2: Trial of the century, a senior member of the royal

584
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,279
family in the dock, facing a jury of his peers,

585
00:27:41,319 --> 00:27:45,480
potentially facing actual prison time. It would dominate the entire decade.

586
00:27:45,559 --> 00:27:47,519
It would be bigger than the OJ trial. It would

587
00:27:47,559 --> 00:27:49,039
tear the country apart in debate.

588
00:27:49,279 --> 00:27:51,319
Speaker 1: Scenario two, release without charge.

589
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 2: He goes home, but the investigation continues. This is known

590
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,920
as release under investigation. It leaves him in total legal limbo.

591
00:28:00,279 --> 00:28:03,279
The cloud hangs over him, maybe for months or even years.

592
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,119
The police basically say we aren't done, but we can't

593
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:07,599
legally hold you anymore, and.

594
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: Scenario three release with no further action. They just say, sorry,

595
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,799
we made a mistake, nothing to see here, You're free

596
00:28:13,839 --> 00:28:14,559
to go permanently.

597
00:28:14,799 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 2: That would be catastrophic for public trust after a raid

598
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,400
like that, after the global headlines. If they let him

599
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,200
go with a nevermind, the public will scream cover up.

600
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,200
It would look exactly like the establishment protecting its own

601
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,400
at the very last second. It would confirm everyone's worst

602
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,720
cynicisms about how the world really works.

603
00:28:32,839 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: It feels like a lose lose for the institution of

604
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,640
the monarchy, but maybe a win for justice if they

605
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,240
follow the evidence wherever it leads.

606
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 2: It is the ultimate stress test for the British Constitution.

607
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,839
The question is can a royal suspect be processed consistently,

608
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,640
rigorously and impartially. The final outcome will be a verdict

609
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,799
on the system itself, not just the man.

610
00:28:54,319 --> 00:28:57,119
Speaker 1: It's fascinating to think about the bigger picture here. We

611
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,880
started this deep dive with a headline about a prince

612
00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:02,880
and a birthday arrest, but we've ended up talking about

613
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,240
the nature of power, the fragility of public trust, and

614
00:29:06,279 --> 00:29:09,240
the global web of corruption that can ensnare even the

615
00:29:09,319 --> 00:29:10,759
highest born people, and that.

616
00:29:10,799 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 2: Is exactly why this story matters to everyone. It's not

617
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,000
just royal gossip, it's not just schadenfreud. It's about whether

618
00:29:17,079 --> 00:29:19,960
the rules we all live by actually apply to the

619
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,799
people who make the rules or the people related to them.

620
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: From a palace to a police station, from his royal

621
00:29:25,559 --> 00:29:28,920
highness to a man in his sixties from Norfolk. It

622
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,440
has been a long, strange journey for Andrew.

623
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,279
Speaker 2: Mount bat Windsor, and one that is far from over.

624
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: Exactly. We're just the very beginning of the legal phase

625
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:37,440
of this saga.

626
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: Indeed, and as we wrap up, I think we need

627
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,279
to leave you the listeners, with the core tension of

628
00:29:42,319 --> 00:29:44,160
this entire event, right.

629
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,359
Speaker 1: Because depending on what happens in the next twenty four

630
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,799
to ninety six hours, we're going to learn a lot

631
00:29:48,839 --> 00:29:50,400
about the world we actually live in.

632
00:29:51,119 --> 00:29:53,799
Speaker 2: So here's a provocative thought for you to chew on,

633
00:29:53,839 --> 00:29:57,200
something to ponder that wasn't explicitly in the reporting. If

634
00:29:57,279 --> 00:30:00,880
Andrew is released without charges after this ma massive, high

635
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,319
profile raid, how will you interpret it?

636
00:30:03,519 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: Yeah? Will you see it as proof that the justice

637
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,640
system works because it requires such a high standard of

638
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,359
evidence that even a prince can walk free if the

639
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,440
case isn't absolutely perfect, that innocent until proven guilty is

640
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,279
real for everyone, or will you.

641
00:30:19,279 --> 00:30:21,839
Speaker 2: See it as proof that when push comes to shove,

642
00:30:22,599 --> 00:30:25,359
power still protects its own. Does the high bar of

643
00:30:25,359 --> 00:30:28,079
evidence only seem to apply when the suspect has a

644
00:30:28,079 --> 00:30:29,279
title and wealth.

645
00:30:29,319 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: It's the ultimate road shock test for our justice system.

646
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,279
We really want to know what you think. Is this

647
00:30:34,359 --> 00:30:37,519
the beginning of true accountability or just the latest chapter

648
00:30:37,559 --> 00:30:38,359
in a long cover up.

649
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,039
Speaker 2: Leave a comment below let us know your stand.

650
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: This has been thrilling Threads. We'll be watching the news

651
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:42,880
right along with you.

652
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,359
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, Stay curious, and stay critical.

653
00:30:45,519 --> 00:30:46,039
Speaker 1: Bye for now,