Speaker 1: Ho ho ho. Welcome to the third episode of Super
Speaker 1: League three sixty, the podcast all about British rugby league stuff.
Speaker 1: My name is Lee Addison and my name is John Davidson.
Speaker 1: John very disappointed in you. I saw that you got
Speaker 1: an early Christmas present. You had a microphone and you
Speaker 1: were playing with you but you were playing with your
Speaker 1: thing before we press record and it's just not it's
Speaker 1: not working.
Speaker 2: No, I'm not. I'm not the most text savvy of
Speaker 2: individuals there. Eventually we've got We've got lots of episodes
Speaker 2: to camp.
Speaker 1: So and I'm in the Chris, I'm in the Christmas
Speaker 1: spirit John, and inspired by you last time with your
Speaker 1: bar humbug T shirt on and you've just turned up
Speaker 1: in army colors.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just matching your your red with a bit
Speaker 2: of green, you know, a bit of festive brain.
Speaker 1: John's and army fatigues. Lee Addison's dressed as father Christmas. Well,
Speaker 1: this pod obviously has a British rugby league lean and
Speaker 1: more specifically Super League, but we've not done one podcast
Speaker 1: yet of this of the two and this third will
Speaker 1: fit that that same theme. We need to do some politics,
Speaker 1: we need to do some rugby league politics because we
Speaker 1: go in all sorts of directions, and what what does
Speaker 1: shock me at the moment is that there's still been
Speaker 1: nothing positive about the World Cup next year in terms
Speaker 1: of England's preparations. All have heard, all that's been in
Speaker 1: the news is Sean Wayne won't get a warm up game.
Speaker 1: That's indeed, if Sean Wayne is the coach, Yeah.
Speaker 2: There's not. There's not really been much news or talk
Speaker 2: about that. I mean, I think there's some speculation that
Speaker 2: he might get the get the acts, but yeah, in
Speaker 2: terms of no warm up game, probably very few meetings together. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it will be I guess systems as usual, so I
Speaker 2: think expectations will be probably quite low for in the
Speaker 2: World Cup.
Speaker 1: We'll dedicate some time each week to the NRL as
Speaker 1: well or each fortnite until the season starts. I guess
Speaker 1: right now, John, there's not much in the NRL sphere,
Speaker 1: is there?
Speaker 2: No, there isn't And to be honest, just that podcast
Speaker 2: would just like to sort of express the I guess,
Speaker 2: the the shock and the devastation, the sadness of what
Speaker 2: happened at Bondo Beach a week and a half ago.
Speaker 2: Obviously not rugby league related, but but in Australia and
Speaker 2: something that kind of affects the whole world. And I
Speaker 2: know at least there was a there was a Manly
Speaker 2: fan who was who was who was killed, as well
Speaker 2: as the Northern Beach is constable who was shot in
Speaker 2: the head. I think he's in hospital recovering.
Speaker 1: But yeah, just well, the photographer, Peter Marr was the
Speaker 1: was the the rugby club on the Northern Beaches there,
Speaker 1: he was their photographer. So awful news awful. I spoke to.
Speaker 1: I spoke to a friend who lives in Maroubra who
Speaker 1: frequents Bondi quite regularly as a suburb and there apparently
Speaker 1: as a palpable shock stroke, sadness stroke, anger on the
Speaker 1: streets and just looking at the news, the news cycles,
Speaker 1: the news items. It's only just now starting to drop
Speaker 1: off in terms of intensity of news items. My fear
Speaker 1: is that the legal process will drag on. My fear
Speaker 1: is that there'll be a Sydney lawyer somewhere who will
Speaker 1: look to get their name in the sun and to
Speaker 1: defend this alleged that we've got to say alleged. There's
Speaker 1: plenty of pictures and videos of a man with a
Speaker 1: gun shooting plenty of people. So my theor is something
Speaker 1: like that will happen. Let's not go far too far
Speaker 1: down this rabbit hole. Apart from to say, awful, awful,
Speaker 1: awful news, anybody who has been affected by listening to
Speaker 1: this podcast sending our love. I'm sure you agree with that, John. Also,
Speaker 1: we don't discriminate, mate, do it?
Speaker 2: So no, no, no, definitely not so hopefully Yeah, thoughts and
Speaker 2: praise and lot as you said to everyone affected.
Speaker 1: And now I'm just going to turn off this air
Speaker 1: conditioner next to me because it sounds like a train
Speaker 1: in my airphones. Just give me a second, and then
Speaker 1: if I start sweating with me Santa hat on, I'll
Speaker 1: have to put it back on. John. You're a UK
Speaker 1: based Australian journalist and over the next year, well, who knows,
Speaker 1: we might be going for ten years with this podcast, John,
Speaker 1: we might win awards and stuff. You're going to be
Speaker 1: getting some interviews for us and things like that, and scoops,
Speaker 1: aren't you.
Speaker 2: That's the plane, Yes, that is the plan.
Speaker 1: Where can people find you?
Speaker 2: They can form me on x Johnny J Davidson, and
Speaker 2: they can form me on Facebook at John Davidson journalist
Speaker 2: and on Patreon at Rugby League hub dot com longreads.
Speaker 1: I'm a UK born rugby league coaches coach in Australia
Speaker 1: a long time. You can find me probably at the
Speaker 1: Cricket at the moment, but also admin at Rugby League
Speaker 1: Coach dot com. But I use my email at Rugby
Speaker 1: League Coach on Socials and Rugby League Coach dot com
Speaker 1: dot au is my website. This podcast is being aired
Speaker 1: on the Ashes, Rugby League and Rugby League Coach Pops
Speaker 1: platforms for a while, but please start to switch over
Speaker 1: please to the Super League three sixty podcast platform. What
Speaker 1: should we talk about first, Johnny? And what should we
Speaker 1: talk about first? Because we're doing fault nightly at the moment,
Speaker 1: we seem to have a lot of little items. So
Speaker 1: the first one I want to talk about and we
Speaker 1: have had a question about this from a social media
Speaker 1: person and I'm going to leave that till the end.
Speaker 1: Then there's a reason I'm doing that. But Matt Pete,
Speaker 1: the Wigan coach, is another who's decided to come out
Speaker 1: and have a go at the speed of the roock
Speaker 1: in Super League. What can you tell us about that,
Speaker 1: Johnny D Davidson.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just to clarify he's not come out and had
Speaker 2: to go. It was obviously a question I asked him
Speaker 2: in an interview. I asked him lots of questions and
Speaker 2: he answered pretty honestly. It was on the back of
Speaker 2: the p Steve Masacor did with the Catalans coach John
Speaker 2: Tomkins and the Toulouse coach Sylvan and Jules a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks before, you know, and they were both adamant
Speaker 2: about how the Super League has become too defense orientated.
Speaker 2: There's too much wrestling, The Rucks are too slow, there's
Speaker 2: not enough consistency in how they're policed. They're very messy,
Speaker 2: and I think anyone who watched the Ashes, particularly perhaps
Speaker 2: NRL fans who then, you know, the first Test being
Speaker 2: reft by an English left, or just the way that
Speaker 2: the English players struggle to kind of adapt to the
Speaker 2: NROL refereeing of those second and third test, would probably agree,
Speaker 2: And those who watched Super League would probably agree that
Speaker 2: the way the Rucks are and the NRLs super League
Speaker 2: a light used to part a part. Even my partner,
Speaker 2: who doesn't watch a lot of rugby league, when she
Speaker 2: sees an NRL game sort of says it's like a
Speaker 2: different products, a different sport. So I think there is
Speaker 2: a realization from a lot of people in Super League
Speaker 2: that they need to adapt their rucks, their competition to
Speaker 2: more how the NRL is playing if they want if
Speaker 2: England is going to be able to match the not
Speaker 2: just the Strands, but the Kiwi's, the Smalls, the Tongans
Speaker 2: and anyone else who was drawing their national team from
Speaker 2: the RL. Yeah, I think I think the one of
Speaker 2: the issues is the consistency of how referee police is.
Speaker 2: You know, what is a quick rap, was a slow
Speaker 2: rock or is a dominant tackle, what isn't and why
Speaker 2: the markers aren't square whether the ten's being policed or not.
Speaker 2: And I even I spoke to Brian Carr a Castle
Speaker 2: for a couple a week or so ago and he
Speaker 2: was also supportive. So I think the vast majority of
Speaker 2: Super League coaches would agree with what Mad people saying
Speaker 2: and what you know Tompkins and Whols was saying as well.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's to me it's just been allowed to
Speaker 1: slip because a few years ago the Rocks were twice
Speaker 1: as fast as they were in the NRL because the
Speaker 1: referees didn't want them to be on the ground at
Speaker 1: all in any way, shape or form. So teams were
Speaker 1: doing their best to keep the attacker upright and dance
Speaker 1: with them if you like. So, so it's just the
Speaker 1: way it's evolved. I'd say there's a bit more slopping
Speaker 1: us in the game in the last five or ten years.
Speaker 1: For years the markers haven't been squaring the Super League,
Speaker 1: and one if you look back at the Super League
Speaker 1: Grand Final in particular, there was one period of about
Speaker 1: five minutes where the refact lost complete control of the
Speaker 1: rook and there was all sorts of messy things happening
Speaker 1: in and around the play the ball. So they seem
Speaker 1: to be suffering referees from paralysis by analysis forgetting some
Speaker 1: of the basics if you ask me, and I welcome
Speaker 1: this discussion. Now, Sky are the TV rights holders for
Speaker 1: the Super League for one more year at least, is
Speaker 1: that right?
Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. Yeah, the current three dealings at the
Speaker 2: end of twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: Six, and because there's two extra teams tagged onto the
Speaker 1: Super League, there's an extra fixture. So there's been some
Speaker 1: conjecture pertaining to whether Sky would cover that game and
Speaker 1: for the same fee that they're that they're paying, and
Speaker 1: all we know is that the game is going to
Speaker 1: be covered.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So essentially, obviously under the deal it was for
Speaker 2: you know, six games a week, a set amount of
Speaker 2: games in a year, and then Super League not really
Speaker 2: to anyone's knowledge why, but just decided to expand without
Speaker 2: most deliberation or that much analysis and adding two more
Speaker 2: teams without much thought apart from eliminating loot fixtures because
Speaker 2: apparently loot fixtures are the devil. They thought, we're just
Speaker 2: adding two more teams. How are we going to fund them?
Speaker 2: Or we're not thought about that? Who's going to show them?
Speaker 2: Or we're not thought about is the broadcast run? Well,
Speaker 2: we're not thought about that. So there's a bit of
Speaker 2: a shit fight basically, Lee. But my understanding speaking to
Speaker 2: a few sources, is that Sky will show the games
Speaker 2: and they will pay some of the production costs because
Speaker 2: we're looking at between half a million to you know,
Speaker 2: six hundred and fifty odd thousand pounds for the year
Speaker 2: because it's an extra game every round in twenty seven rounds.
Speaker 2: They will be on Sky and Sky will pay for
Speaker 2: some of those costs, but not all of them. So
Speaker 2: as a bit of discussion and negotiation going on, and
Speaker 2: as the RFL and Super got flushed with cash, you
Speaker 2: know they're not They're not bursting at the seam. So
Speaker 2: who pays for that is quite a big thing. I
Speaker 2: know it's been mooted before that maybe Super League we
Speaker 2: put the seventh game on like on on our league
Speaker 2: or on its own Super League Plus on its own
Speaker 2: streaming platform. But that's not going to happen and it
Speaker 2: will be on Sky. But yeah, it's just a bit
Speaker 2: of an ongoing saga. You would have to I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm not a businessman, but you'd have to think that
Speaker 2: one of your keeper business partners make a big decision
Speaker 2: like expanding the competition without discussing them. Seems a bit
Speaker 2: strange and a bit odd. But maybe it's attacktic to
Speaker 2: get more money out of Sky in twelve months, who knows.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Rugby Football League looking for a new CEO
Speaker 1: and chair as we speak. What can you tell us
Speaker 1: about that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the last Saturday there's basically a job had
Speaker 2: published saying that the RFL was looking for a new chair,
Speaker 2: not of the RFL but of all three bodies. So
Speaker 2: it's probably a bit of a long winded explanation.
Speaker 1: But please do, please do, We've got time.
Speaker 2: So we have the RFL, which is the Rugby Football League,
Speaker 2: which is the governing body, and then within that they
Speaker 2: have Rugby League Commercial which is essentially a separate entity,
Speaker 2: but their commercial arm which is in charge of things
Speaker 2: like sponsorships and TV negotiations. And then they also have
Speaker 2: Super League Europurope, which is with the representative of all
Speaker 2: that was now fourteen but was twelve clubs. So the
Speaker 2: RFL not only runs spell E Europe, but Super Egurope
Speaker 2: kind of runs itself. But the RFL is the governing
Speaker 2: body across all these things. And the RFL is also
Speaker 2: in charge of the women's game and the championship and
Speaker 2: League One. So essentially this was, you know, this was
Speaker 2: the speculation for months when Niger WAD would came back
Speaker 2: in that they would realign all these bodies and try
Speaker 2: and basically get some of the rid of some of
Speaker 2: the duplication of roles, essentially cut costs and merge them
Speaker 2: back together. So they're looking for a chairman to lead
Speaker 2: all three of those boards, so essentially one chairman across that,
Speaker 2: which they don't have at the moment. I think from
Speaker 2: the job at it's about one hundred days a year,
Speaker 2: so it's not a full time role. They didn't mention
Speaker 2: a salary, but look, they constantly do this the last
Speaker 2: what seven eight years, We've had Roller Umer and Tony Sutton.
Speaker 2: So they say they're looking in a worldwide search, We're
Speaker 2: going to look at the best candidates, and then it
Speaker 2: seems to be somebody who already works at the RFL.
Speaker 1: So I think with a Northern accent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, with a Northern accent, who used to work for
Speaker 2: Bradford or hollow c or Huddersfield. Look, I've said this
Speaker 2: for a number of years. I think there needs to
Speaker 2: be much like Peter Landy's was in the NFL and outsider,
Speaker 2: not someone who's come from clubland, someone who hasn't got
Speaker 2: you know, ties to specific club owners or clubs or whatever.
Speaker 2: Someone who can come in as a bit of a
Speaker 2: clean slate, fresh slate and actually makes some serious change
Speaker 2: and you know, lead the bloody things. So will that happen?
Speaker 2: I will not hold my breath because I would probably
Speaker 2: be dead. But it is interesting. Also Tony Sutton, who
Speaker 2: was Ralph Rumer's deputy, who was the last RFL c
Speaker 2: He left in October and abu or Koku, who was
Speaker 2: a part of niger Wood's review committee, was appointed interim CEO,
Speaker 2: much to the surprise of everyone because there was no
Speaker 2: recruitment process for that. But I believe he's leaving at
Speaker 2: much so and I only looking for a CEO of
Speaker 2: the RFL. They're also looking for a chair of everything
Speaker 2: at the same time. So the speculation would be that
Speaker 2: niger Wood will leave then and go back into his
Speaker 2: hibernation again. He's just come back in a power. Would
Speaker 2: he leave I don't I don't know. Nigel doesn't answer
Speaker 2: my calls or messages or emails. I wouldn't be surprised
Speaker 2: if Nigel went back to run Bradford or have an
Speaker 2: ownership stake in Bradford like he did before. But it's
Speaker 2: interesting because you know, maybe things will change at the
Speaker 2: very top. Maybe they won't, but maybe we'll have fresh blood.
Speaker 1: Maybe we won't. And I think the big when you
Speaker 1: mentioned Peter the land is there. The big thing that
Speaker 1: I think happened there is the game got somebody with influence, Yes,
Speaker 1: so who happened to like rugby league as well? And
Speaker 1: therefore who's got influence in the UK. Well, the first
Speaker 1: name that sprung to mind for me was the Hearne family,
Speaker 1: and they approached rugby league a few years ago, or
Speaker 1: believe or were approached by rugby league a few years
Speaker 1: ago and couldn't run, couldn't run for the Hills fast enough.
Speaker 1: I believe so so that.
Speaker 2: With the Hearns, I think I think the offer to
Speaker 2: them was, why don't you run the Challenge Cup? You know,
Speaker 2: the Challenge Cup struggling, it's not what it once was.
Speaker 2: Why don't you run that? And they sort of said, well, no,
Speaker 2: we want everything, super League, we want the Challenge Cap,
Speaker 2: we want everything. And I don't think, I mean, we
Speaker 2: could argue whether that would be a good thing for
Speaker 2: the game or not. It's really hard to say, because
Speaker 2: the Hearne success has come in very individualist sports, you know, boxing,
Speaker 2: snook car, what else have I done? Darts? And they've
Speaker 2: got to I'm not criticizing the Herns. They've been amazingly successful.
Speaker 2: You know, they're very good at publicity, driving up media rights.
Speaker 2: But also you could argue some of the you know,
Speaker 2: the characteristics aren't great, you know, getting in bed with
Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia, you know, is that a good thing. Personally,
Speaker 2: I don't think it is so rugby league as you
Speaker 2: know Lee in the UK and probably more so than Australia.
Speaker 2: It's very grounded in this community roots kind of local,
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's the pride of the local community.
Speaker 2: So I don't think on the one end, you can
Speaker 2: have this big business, let's make lots of money, let's
Speaker 2: get publicity, and the same have this social impact. We're
Speaker 2: great for the community. That kind of thing. Like, there's
Speaker 2: probably a bit of hypocrisy if you're trying to go
Speaker 2: down path.
Speaker 1: I don't know, well, I understand what you're saying, but
Speaker 1: that northernness, that community feel, et cetera. There's a very
Speaker 1: big brand that managed to pull that off and that's
Speaker 1: Coronation Street and they've and they've pulled it off for
Speaker 1: most of the last century. So I it's all it's
Speaker 1: all about how you're packaging. It's all about how you
Speaker 1: how you move forward with it, and it's all about
Speaker 1: how you present to the wider world. I mean the
Speaker 1: classic case is Eddie wearing Eddie wearing Ray French in
Speaker 1: rugby league. We tended to hammer these people Ray French
Speaker 1: and Eddie wearing God rest both their souls. And I remember,
Speaker 1: particularly when I was young, most people in the adult
Speaker 1: world I spoke to didn't like Ray French as a commentator.
Speaker 1: The same with Eddie and Stevel. We tended to criticize.
Speaker 1: And then as they as they retire and things start
Speaker 1: to become glossy eye this some people start to forget
Speaker 1: what they used to think. But I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: forget that at all. Eddie Wearing in particular was moved
Speaker 1: to defend himself at one point because of the the
Speaker 1: attitudes that people had to to Eddy Wearing's commentary, and
Speaker 1: the criticisms of Eddie Wearing in particular were that he
Speaker 1: was too northern. Yet the BBC, so the establishment and
Speaker 1: therefore so many viewers around the world around the UK
Speaker 1: seem to love Eddie Wearing because he must have been
Speaker 1: somebody who pulled in pulled in audiences. So I think
Speaker 1: that's what's missing in rugby league, that connection between between
Speaker 1: what what sells. There's nothing wrong with being northern, there's
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with being a community, and you can be
Speaker 1: very proud in that, but you need to package it
Speaker 1: and and and embrace it so that people some people
Speaker 1: literally enjoy you for that. And I think probably one
Speaker 1: of rugby league's problems is that it is so uncomfortable
Speaker 1: being itself, It's so uncomfortable in its own skin that
Speaker 1: that that just people smell that, people sniff that, and
Speaker 1: then when they do these bungles in the administration all
Speaker 1: the time, it's not poor rugby league. It's people laughing
Speaker 1: at rugby league because you know, we're too busy killing
Speaker 1: ourselves in the process as well. So I mean this
Speaker 1: could be a podcast on its own, mate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want to get too deep in many
Speaker 2: fun A final point on that, I agree on what
Speaker 2: you're saying. It goes back to earlier this year when
Speaker 2: Billy Boston got knighted and for those straining lists, Billy
Speaker 2: Boston's the first, well first person ever, our first player
Speaker 2: to be knighted for basically for being a rugby league players.
Speaker 2: Wel Welsh guy who went to Wigan because he could
Speaker 2: He's black, he couldn't play, wasn't getting picked for the
Speaker 2: last term because of his race, and was a legend
Speaker 2: and a hero Wigan and scored eighty billion tries. I
Speaker 2: think he was one of the first. I think he
Speaker 2: actually first, first black great British player to play in
Speaker 2: the Ashes or against Australia. Wasn't the first great Black
Speaker 2: great player, but he was the first to go down
Speaker 2: Under in the fifties and sixties. Just a legend. But
Speaker 2: speaking OFCSS, Chris Radlinsky earn a year when Billy was
Speaker 2: getting knighted. It was basically the kind of dichotomy of
Speaker 2: in the UK rugby league players that says this modest heroes.
Speaker 2: You can't be too big for your boots, you can't
Speaker 2: be a big character, you can't be you know, Jake Paul,
Speaker 2: you know, too arrogant to Larry because Josel Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 2: we're not. That's not our DNA, that's our sports. So
Speaker 2: there's that kind of well contradiction. I guess that how
Speaker 2: do we make big stars? How do we make players
Speaker 2: in the big stars? But then that's kind of against
Speaker 2: our ethos. So one of these things has to change
Speaker 2: or I guess we won't have, you know, breakout stars.
Speaker 2: And obviously in Australia they managed to do it, but
Speaker 2: the game in England is a little bit different. As
Speaker 2: you know, there's.
Speaker 1: Different interests in rugby league in Australia though, I think
Speaker 1: because of the way it was set up in Australia,
Speaker 1: I think the gambling companies were intermingled with it. Businesses
Speaker 1: were more intermingled with it, whereas in England it was
Speaker 1: part of a remote community if you like, in the
Speaker 1: north of England it was a breakaway. And but also
Speaker 1: if you look at the way Australia is structured, rugby
Speaker 1: league basically took off in Sydney, which I think, even
Speaker 1: though it's not the capital of the country, it competes
Speaker 1: with Melbourne to be the main city of city time.
Speaker 1: And therefore, when you see images of Australia, people see
Speaker 1: the Sydney Opera House, they see the bridge, and not
Speaker 1: far away from there at all is rugby league. And
Speaker 1: therefore there's influence in and around Sydney. And I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure that if this breakaway happened in London in eighteen
Speaker 1: ninety five, the influence would be then. It literally is influenced.
Speaker 1: If you if you look at most documentaries about anything
Speaker 1: murders or world wars or anything like that, the people
Speaker 1: that get interviewed on these things are all influential people.
Speaker 1: It's the it's the lecturer from Cambridge or or the
Speaker 1: head of this at this university or the head of
Speaker 1: that at that organization, and it's all about influence. So
Speaker 1: you know that's where rugby league. Rugby league has missed
Speaker 1: boat where it probably needs to focus a lot more
Speaker 1: of its efforts are on things like getting arrested in pubs.
Speaker 1: So Jamie Baker Peacock, there's a video of him getting arrested. Now,
Speaker 1: one thing I do want to say about Jamie Peacock,
Speaker 1: the former Great Britain leads. Did he play for Bradford
Speaker 1: as well?
Speaker 2: He did? I think he.
Speaker 1: Forward? One thing I will say. Number one, there's no
Speaker 1: I've not seen any proof that he did anything wrong.
Speaker 1: Number Two, he's restraint m that that he showed that.
Speaker 1: I mean, there was nothing you know, he was a
Speaker 1: gentleman basically, so in the video anyway, So do you
Speaker 1: know anything about this story because it's not really made
Speaker 1: the news, has it.
Speaker 2: No. I've got sentence by a contact and it had
Speaker 2: been online for on x for about two days and
Speaker 2: it was weirdly posted by this kind of right wing
Speaker 2: anti police kind of I don't know, pro white kind
Speaker 2: of account. Basically you know that that the UK is
Speaker 2: now police date and I contacted the West Yorkshire Police.
Speaker 2: They weren't any help, but I did had had another
Speaker 2: source tell me that it was a complete misunderstanding with
Speaker 2: one of the bar staff. I think it was at
Speaker 2: a pub in Headingley that got out of hand and
Speaker 2: that peacock did you know nothing at all. And obviously
Speaker 2: you watch the video, it's quite a bizarre video and
Speaker 2: as you said, it definitely reason well, I believe so.
Speaker 2: I don't have evidence of that, but I believe so.
Speaker 2: But yeah, as as you said, he didn't. He was
Speaker 2: remarkably restrained. He didn't do anything wrong. I think maybe,
Speaker 2: you know, conduct of some of his friends might be
Speaker 2: a bit too, particularly the American woman. But look, you know,
Speaker 2: the police looked a little bit over zealous and Jamie
Speaker 2: conducted himself well, so maybe you're purely misunderstanding. I think
Speaker 2: when I posted it or retweeted it, I wasn't criticizing Jamie.
Speaker 2: I have a go I just this was out there.
Speaker 2: This was you know, it is news, whether people like
Speaker 2: it or not. You know, former BBC personality form of
Speaker 2: Great Britain captain probably one of the greatest British players
Speaker 2: of all time, you know, looking in Australia. I mean,
Speaker 2: I know it's a different situation. But Wendell Sailor and
Speaker 2: that was you know, National news last week.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so this is basically what we're saying.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that it's a two prong it's a
Speaker 2: two pronged discussion point lea in that it's a very
Speaker 2: weird thing what happened, and maybe just completely misunderstanding. But
Speaker 2: someone's filmed, didn't put online and that just goes to
Speaker 2: show you know, social media and phones.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, nothing broke through like that. The
Speaker 1: cash player that was called Greg.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had this discussion with someone the other day
Speaker 2: and it was like, you know, Joe Westerman, he's probably
Speaker 2: not got one tenth of the profile, but that viral,
Speaker 2: you know, the Sun and the Daily Mail him looking
Speaker 2: the asshole out of a woman in next to Greg.
Speaker 2: So look, didn't do anything like that.
Speaker 1: Restrained, do more for the game, be a bit less restrained,
Speaker 1: thank you, But it is.
Speaker 2: It is perhaps a concern when something like this doesn't
Speaker 2: get run in the media, which kind of reflects on
Speaker 2: how small rugy Legged profile is in the UK.
Speaker 1: I guess we've gone down and we've gone down a
Speaker 1: rabbit hole there that would be great to go into
Speaker 1: Lee's laugh, but we're gonna have to pull it back
Speaker 1: now to civilization. Casson finally got round to doing some
Speaker 1: refurbishment and redevelopment at Castle. What are what are they redeveloping?
Speaker 1: The dougouts are.
Speaker 2: So I was I think it was about two weeks ago,
Speaker 2: and anyone who been to Cast the Jungle, I think
Speaker 2: it's it's the one Boar Stadium now, which is the
Speaker 2: real name.
Speaker 1: It's not a in the gym. The jungle used to.
Speaker 2: Be the Mentors Jungle and essentially there was a pitch
Speaker 2: next to it which was a training pitch. It was
Speaker 2: more of like a kid's pitch. But that's been level
Speaker 2: that's been paid. They're building a four G there. They're
Speaker 2: building a new fan zone around the main stand which
Speaker 2: will be you know, a lot better than it was.
Speaker 2: The sort of sponsors corporate facilities have been done up.
Speaker 2: There's a gym being built as well, so it's kind
Speaker 2: of it's not a stadium flattening and redevelopment, but they
Speaker 2: are doing it in stages. And anyone who's been a Cast,
Speaker 2: and I think the first time I went there was
Speaker 2: in twenty thirteen, it was like going back in the
Speaker 2: fifties and that was when and they did fix the
Speaker 2: toilets up about two years ago, but when you went
Speaker 2: to the toilet, you were just literally pissing in a hole.
Speaker 2: There wasn't even a drain and there wasn't you couldn't
Speaker 2: even wash your hands. It was like going back in time.
Speaker 2: And look, it's long, long, Yeah, it's long, but I'm
Speaker 2: I'm applauding cass for for doing it because as.
Speaker 1: Long as they don't slash the budget.
Speaker 2: But look, I think it's it's all sort of part
Speaker 2: of the new Ryan Carr era there. Obviously he's coming
Speaker 2: as a new coach from Saint Georgia. Lawara made some
Speaker 2: Eastern signings. Obviously they've struggled for a number of years Cast,
Speaker 2: So you know, you look at what Lakefield have done
Speaker 2: the last two three years and how they've kind of
Speaker 2: reformed the club. Hopefully Cast can follow suit and that
Speaker 2: are times ahead for the Tigers.
Speaker 1: So we've just talked about number ones there the where
Speaker 1: you piss and then the other abolution is the other end.
Speaker 1: So talking of a ship storm Salford. Salford bid yeah
Speaker 1: for new ownership has moved on quite significantly. Actually so
Speaker 1: we last podcast, we were devastated Sulford had finally died,
Speaker 1: but the patient has been reborn, it seems so this
Speaker 1: is like the Bible story. This has happened so quickly.
Speaker 2: Well, I think there was a couple of groups who
Speaker 2: were basically waiting in the wings, working in the wings
Speaker 2: for once the club was liquidated, which obviously took a
Speaker 2: lot longer than most of us expected to put in
Speaker 2: a bid for the license. Obviously, the club, the business
Speaker 2: went bust, but the license for the RFL to actually
Speaker 2: run a club in their competitions was available, and there
Speaker 2: was three groups bidding for it. They were supposed to
Speaker 2: be a decision on the seventeenth, which was postponed. My
Speaker 2: understanding is basically the council wanted too much money for
Speaker 2: the rent for the stadium, something like two hundred pounds.
Speaker 1: Can I just say something there, Yeah, if somebody wanted
Speaker 1: to own a rugby league club and they couldn't afford
Speaker 1: two hundred grand, should they be owning in a rugby
Speaker 1: league club?
Speaker 2: Well? There, I mean it's a part of it's going
Speaker 2: to be a part on club championship. I mean, how
Speaker 2: much you know what badge do you think these clubs
Speaker 2: are on.
Speaker 1: Well, it's at the end of the day. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I don't want to sit and turn this
Speaker 1: into a judgment of what finances people have got. Yeah,
Speaker 1: isn't this the whole problem, people saying they could they
Speaker 1: could afford something when they couldn't. And yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I would have thought it was quite a good fail safe.
Speaker 1: So two hundred g's too. Let's see if you're serious
Speaker 1: and it's already got it got rid of one bid
Speaker 1: basically straight away. I mean, why why would you go in?
Speaker 1: Why would you try and own a club if you
Speaker 1: can't stump up one fifth of a million?
Speaker 2: It's a fair point. I think there's a couple of
Speaker 2: components of this. So it is two hundred grand for
Speaker 2: thirteen home games and a bit of offer space when
Speaker 2: you're probably only going to average between fifteen hundred and
Speaker 2: two thousand fans as a part to one team in
Speaker 2: the second tier. Is that worth paying? I'd say that's
Speaker 2: probably too steep personally, but that's just my opinion. And
Speaker 2: how much money are you going to make, you know,
Speaker 2: from these home games, because you're not the central distribution
Speaker 2: that Solva will get. I think they all get the
Speaker 2: small assess that's something like fifty grand or forty grand.
Speaker 2: It's nothing. So you look, we've got to get beyond
Speaker 2: this stage where owners are just okay, you own a club,
Speaker 2: so you're going to lose half a million a million
Speaker 2: a year like that's just not a sustainable business model.
Speaker 2: So I think the r I was right to not
Speaker 2: rush to make a decision, particularly when there were three
Speaker 2: groups and one of them was linked to the previous owners.
Speaker 2: Tracy Autika, the New Zealander. She was linked to the
Speaker 2: two former owners and New Zealanders, so you know giving
Speaker 2: her the club the liscense would be Yeah, it wouldn't
Speaker 2: have gone down well itself. For put it that way,
Speaker 2: I don't know who.
Speaker 1: I don't know who put the two hundred grand bill
Speaker 1: on for the stadium. Was it a council? That's quite
Speaker 1: that's quite smart for them, because if if you own
Speaker 1: a pub and you want the riff raft to stay out,
Speaker 1: you put the prices up of the meals and the
Speaker 1: drinks and you get about you get a better caliber
Speaker 1: of person come into the organization. You just need to
Speaker 1: make sure you get enough coming to gad above one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's quite it's quite an nuanced thing, as you know,
Speaker 2: Like this stadium was built, well I don't think it
Speaker 2: was built for Salford, but for the Red Devils when
Speaker 2: they left the Willows for somewhere to play, and obviously
Speaker 2: Sale Sharks the rugby union team music too. But it's
Speaker 2: a bit of a wide elephant that the stadium is
Speaker 2: now owned fully backed by the council. But you know,
Speaker 2: what's the council's job. Is it to make money? Is
Speaker 2: it to you know, provide good government for its citizens?
Speaker 2: Like what's the Yeah, it's quite nuanced, this whole thing.
Speaker 2: And I think the club and the stadium have become
Speaker 2: kind of political football footballs for lack of a pun
Speaker 2: for the council, for the Labor Party as you know,
Speaker 2: well you know, we want to keep the sport alive.
Speaker 2: It's a bit of a vote getting thing as well.
Speaker 2: So it's quite it's quite a complicated situation, but try
Speaker 2: and some help. Mason Caitan Brown's bid it was a
Speaker 2: form of self abay, he has got the nods, so
Speaker 2: it's him, a couple of local Saltford businessmen. They seem
Speaker 2: to have the support of a number of ex Solford
Speaker 2: players who were on the roster last year. I'm speaking
Speaker 2: to Mason tomorrow, so hopefully I'll have a story out
Speaker 2: and find out more. But I think out of the
Speaker 2: three bids, one was the other one was the Chris
Speaker 2: Irwin bid, who was obviously briefly the CEO under Curtis
Speaker 2: Brown and Psycha Learly. Chris Erwin was also the one
Speaker 2: who tried to set up Manchester Rangers a decade or
Speaker 2: so ago. I think the Mason count Brown one seems
Speaker 2: to me the most sustainable, logical, the smart decision, and
Speaker 2: I spoke to I interviewed Mason a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 2: and one of the best one of the smart things
Speaker 2: I think that they did that they came out very
Speaker 2: publicly with who was involved. They weren't trying to hide anything.
Speaker 2: They did a lot of interviews and they were upfront
Speaker 2: and honest. And wouldn't that be something that we'd like
Speaker 2: to see more of you in rugby league people being John?
Speaker 1: While you were pontificating there, John, I was looking for
Speaker 1: someone RL news and the only the only NRL news
Speaker 1: are found on the Daily Telegraph. It is that Connor
Speaker 1: McGregor had a Rugby League guest at his wedding Pat Richards.
Speaker 2: I followed Pat richards on on Instagram and I saw that,
Speaker 2: and I know, obviously Pat Richards has got Irish ancestry.
Speaker 2: He played for Ireland, so he must either know McGregor's
Speaker 2: wife or him. But yeah, I mean, Connor's not of
Speaker 2: the best public rap has he with the old rape
Speaker 2: case and everything.
Speaker 1: But I will say this, We'll look, we're looking for
Speaker 1: coverage for the game. We need more, we need more
Speaker 1: weddings like this.
Speaker 2: I've got two words for. Is that Lomax?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's him too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, don't you think I mean what?
Speaker 1: I've got another big news item. First, Cowboys coach Todd
Speaker 1: Payton has decided to go in on the for forty
Speaker 1: eight hours before they start training in Vegas. That's the
Speaker 1: other news item. Just letting you know, thank you, Sorry, John,
Speaker 1: I disturbed you exact.
Speaker 2: Lomax, I mean, apart from the Boner decision to tear
Speaker 2: up his paramount of contract to go to R three sixty.
Speaker 2: But surely if your Perth Bears I mean, I think
Speaker 2: Rugby Australian, the Wallabies, I mean they begin to have
Speaker 2: him walk into the wall. But surely Perth you would
Speaker 2: want to make him your markete. Sorry, wouldn't you, because
Speaker 2: he's one of the best wingers in the world.
Speaker 1: He struggles defensively sometimes, but he's better than nobody. He's
Speaker 1: better than yeah.
Speaker 2: Negative analysis, you and your negative analysis.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm going to have a got negative No, it's
Speaker 1: called accountability.
Speaker 2: I'm joking. I'm joking. No, I just think, Look he's available,
Speaker 2: and the same with like, yeah, there's you fall back,
Speaker 2: there's your winger, you've got grandfather, or when you've got
Speaker 2: someone who's played origin.
Speaker 1: Genuinely feel like Papenhausen once a year off the game
Speaker 1: at least. So my point, I want to bring up
Speaker 1: about the NRL News, John, and you'll be very cognizant
Speaker 1: of this. In Australia, there's a couple of big newspapers
Speaker 1: basically that cover rugby league, and ten to fifteen years ago,
Speaker 1: when the big hitting journalists went on their summer holidays,
Speaker 1: there'd be some junior staff writers that would want to
Speaker 1: make a name for themselves while they were away and
Speaker 1: would hunt for news and get some news. Now what
Speaker 1: we have is when those big writers have their summer holidays,
Speaker 1: nobody's really nobody's really hunting for things underneath. So we
Speaker 1: have a news issue because you know, whether we like
Speaker 1: it or not, our news cycles are still influenced by
Speaker 1: the legacy mastheads if you like. Now, what I have
Speaker 1: recommended for a few years to help this is an
Speaker 1: NROL trade window. So the only signing news we're getting
Speaker 1: at the minute is Billy Blogs, who's had more clubs
Speaker 1: than Tiger Woods, has now got another club and is
Speaker 1: moving to this place basically, and there's been no major
Speaker 1: signings because they get done in the year a year
Speaker 1: ahead of when they move. So I would love to
Speaker 1: see a trade window where no trades can happen until
Speaker 1: after the international season, so all trades have to happen
Speaker 1: between I don't know, November sixteen and February twenty eight,
Speaker 1: something like that. All year we can speculate about what's happening.
Speaker 1: I think the Daily Cherry Evans one was a perfect example.
Speaker 1: We all thought Daily Cherry Evans was going to the Roosters.
Speaker 1: Some journalists really pin their hat on that one, or
Speaker 1: stuck their hat on that one. Others did so we
Speaker 1: were genuinely. Somebody else a bit later even said that
Speaker 1: it might be off. The roosters might be bulking and
Speaker 1: then eventually they actually announced him and sent a picture.
Speaker 1: I mean, it lasted ten months and this is a
Speaker 1: perfect example of what the trade window could do.
Speaker 2: M I like, I like your idea. I like the
Speaker 2: idea of a trade wasn't it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, make me make me in charge. What's Johnny's
Speaker 1: job this week? Do you remember last week you had?
Speaker 1: Last time you had two and you had Noel'll save
Speaker 1: this what I went? They do it?
Speaker 2: Now? I can't. I can't remember what I know.
Speaker 1: I knew you wouldn't.
Speaker 2: I've got a new I've got a new one. Just
Speaker 2: dealing with club officials and media managers, I've had a
Speaker 2: few funny interactions, really so I think there was one
Speaker 2: and I I went anyone specifically, but there was one
Speaker 2: where it was like, you know, don't how are you
Speaker 2: kind of report the club's news. You know that that's
Speaker 2: up for the club to do, which kind of just
Speaker 2: obviously don't understand the role of the media.
Speaker 1: And well, and then there's the.
Speaker 2: Other one who I've been trying to interview a new
Speaker 2: employee for probably about three and a half weeks and
Speaker 2: playing this kind of email tag game, which is now
Speaker 2: ended nowhere because the guy's on holiday for Christmas. What's
Speaker 2: the other one? Yeah, the other one I just had. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it was over a specific tweet that I made.
Speaker 2: I didn't like the criticism, which I then responded with
Speaker 2: explaining why the criticism was valid. But yeah, it's just
Speaker 2: it is funny. Particularly in the UK, I think there
Speaker 2: really is this sort of lack of understanding of what
Speaker 2: is the role of the media, or what the role
Speaker 2: what journalists are trying to do, what what what their
Speaker 2: job is. And obviously I understand like it's often you know,
Speaker 2: in competition or even combative with the clubs and with
Speaker 2: the sport. You know, they've got things that they don't
Speaker 2: want out there. You know, journalist are trying to break news,
Speaker 2: they're trying to write in interesting stories. It's not all negative.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's quite positive. It's you know, you've signed this
Speaker 2: wonderful player, would like the profile, and they just they
Speaker 2: want to more and more. They want to have their
Speaker 2: exclusive on their website and their Twitter and have the
Speaker 2: first interview, and they just don't want to get out.
Speaker 2: Actually one one club was funny. It was like, oh,
Speaker 2: we've signed this guy from Australia and it's like I
Speaker 2: would be great to interview. He's like, well, he's not
Speaker 2: here for a few weeks and we'll let him get
Speaker 2: settled in. It's kind of like, well, I think they've
Speaker 2: got phones in Australia. I think they've got internet. You
Speaker 2: know this players a veteran, you know, I think you
Speaker 2: can probably handle a ten minute phone call with me.
Speaker 2: But this is where we're at. Lee, Well, just give me.
Speaker 1: A perfect example about DCE. I mean, the media were
Speaker 1: all over it for eight months, but the ruth is
Speaker 1: just delayed when they started when they announced it. But
Speaker 1: there the RUSS maintain control. Really different.
Speaker 2: The difference isle though the DC one. How did that
Speaker 2: kind of news effectively come out with d C. I
Speaker 2: DC made the decision to go on one hundred percent
Speaker 2: Footy himself without the club's knowledge. Basically, he knew his
Speaker 2: own value in his own voice, and he used it
Speaker 2: to shake the narrative and then mainly tried to shake
Speaker 2: their own narrative by ringing into Errol three sixty live offer.
Speaker 2: So that's that's clubs and players understanding the role and
Speaker 2: the power of the media at one point.
Speaker 1: One thing I think that's also happened too, and I
Speaker 1: see this a lot in Australia now and I definitely
Speaker 1: saw it in England. Is when a little bit of
Speaker 1: profile clubs people, people grow a few inches and they
Speaker 1: try and talk themselves up. So I find this a
Speaker 1: lot in the lower levels of the NRL and the
Speaker 1: lower levels of NRL clubs and NRL Land International Land.
Speaker 1: People like to pretend things are bigger than they are.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So for example, somebody who is the head trainer of
Speaker 1: an NROL club's development side, right will we'll talk to people.
Speaker 1: And when I say head trainer, don't mean head coach,
Speaker 1: I mean the yellow shirt person or whatever. They would
Speaker 1: talk to people and talk themselves up and talk up
Speaker 1: their role in society. Okay. So there's a desperation to
Speaker 1: act bigger than you technically are, and I've seen that
Speaker 1: quite a lot. At the same time, there's another side
Speaker 1: to that, and so with the people who earn a
Speaker 1: little bit more money out of the game, some of
Speaker 1: them actually start acting a little bit diva because they think, well,
Speaker 1: Jennifer Lopez can decide when she talks to BBC or not,
Speaker 1: or I'll just copy what Donald Trump does and blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. But there's a very big difference. Donald Trump
Speaker 1: gets out of bed and gets millions of comments about that.
Speaker 1: Just organically rugby league organically gets three fifths of Fanny Adams.
Speaker 1: So we have to generate interest and therefore we need
Speaker 1: to be accessible, walks and all. And that's what the
Speaker 1: game doesn't or it used to understand that. It used
Speaker 1: to understand that and did really well, and then we've
Speaker 1: completely lost lost all directions by all by all accounts.
Speaker 1: What you told me about the differences between the English
Speaker 1: and Australian rugby league players in the Test series was
Speaker 1: quite alarming really, that they had not received anything remotely
Speaker 1: like the same level of training or attention to listen,
Speaker 1: these guys are basically making you a bit more famous.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And I think that probably comes down to
Speaker 2: media training and education as well. I'm not blaming individual players,
Speaker 2: because the vast majority of players are great to speak to,
Speaker 2: but I don't think they've probably been educated about the wealth,
Speaker 2: not the weld, sorry, the value or the role that
Speaker 2: the media plays and how you can use it to
Speaker 2: your benefit. I always remember chanting to add Terry O'Connor
Speaker 2: on a podcast interview during COVID, and he was saying
Speaker 2: how he got his TV job, was generally just chatting
Speaker 2: to journalists after training whatever, after games, being accessible. You know,
Speaker 2: the media manager had come around and say there might
Speaker 2: have been you come around and say, you know some
Speaker 2: and so needs someone to talk to you who wants
Speaker 2: to do it And most players have run a mile,
Speaker 2: but he'd always do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was always a new players and Terry was
Speaker 1: one of the easiest to And you.
Speaker 2: Build up, don't You build up relationships, you build confidence,
Speaker 2: to build up a profile, and it's win win on
Speaker 2: both sides. And yeah, it's not hard to understand. It's
Speaker 2: not a particularly different difficult concept. But in the UK
Speaker 2: in rugby league, it seems like a lot of people
Speaker 2: struggle with it.
Speaker 1: And when you build up relationship you can read relationships,
Speaker 1: you can do a little bit of you scratch my
Speaker 1: back and I'll scratch yours and then and then journalists
Speaker 1: will look after you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that that is part of the game.
Speaker 2: That is yeah, that that's yeah. And look, there's no
Speaker 2: one it's very different perhaps the Austroam media, but in
Speaker 2: the UK rugby league me there's not really anyone who's
Speaker 2: gonna burn you or you know, absolutely smash you like
Speaker 2: you get in the NRL. It's just a very different
Speaker 2: different beasts. I think it's a lot fairer, and obviously
Speaker 2: there's a lot less coverage, and there's a lot less
Speaker 2: intense and there's less boots on the ground. But yeah,
Speaker 2: there's not really a lot for players to be afraid
Speaker 2: of in that way or clubs. But there's still a
Speaker 2: very protectionist attitude, and as long as that continues, then
Speaker 2: the game's never really going to grow and thrive.
Speaker 1: One player you don't have to know them, and one
Speaker 1: coach that's fallen out with you something about something, and
Speaker 1: you've just got to explain the something not with person
Speaker 1: like something that's just ridiculous, why they've fallen out with you.
Speaker 1: You have.
Speaker 2: I've not had too many in terms of actually players,
Speaker 2: I can't think of players here. I've had the occasional coach,
Speaker 2: but yeah, the vast majority of people I think are
Speaker 2: quite good to deal with.
Speaker 1: Well, there was there was one coach who took particularly
Speaker 1: attention to you because you were one of the first
Speaker 1: to say you probably should get sacked from his job.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, not very good at it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that that particular coach was As said
Speaker 2: about a sarcastic tweet that I posted, which I did
Speaker 2: try and explain but wasn't kind of willing to listen
Speaker 2: and understand. That's okay. Look you, I'm sure it's the
Speaker 2: same when you're coaching Lee and you're coaching against teams
Speaker 2: or you're coaching your own players, and sometimes you have disagreements,
Speaker 2: We fall out with people, that's all part of it.
Speaker 2: But I understand that I have no problem with that generally,
Speaker 2: And there's been lots of times I've done the wrong
Speaker 2: thing and I've put my hand up and apologized because
Speaker 2: we're all human and we all make mistakes. But the
Speaker 2: vast majority of people you can explain things and you
Speaker 2: know they know where you're coming from.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you're just an Australian prick in England, John.
Speaker 2: But I am enjoying the ashes.
Speaker 1: I am enjoying the Well, it's funny you mentioned that.
Speaker 1: Funny you mentioned that because Lee's laughed this week.
Speaker 2: The English.
Speaker 1: The Delightfully should Do said on Fox as Josh tongue
Speaker 1: was either batting and the head was bowling or vice versa.
Speaker 1: I said this quote, this could be a good battle
Speaker 1: between tongue and head. And then when head came on
Speaker 1: to bowl again, she said time for head again, quote unquote,
Speaker 1: and this is while she was down under. So this
Speaker 1: made me think what's happened in rugby league over the
Speaker 1: years in terms of a funny commentary. Can you think
Speaker 1: of anything anything off the top of the old, the
Speaker 1: old chromed dome.
Speaker 2: I can't think of specific commentary, but I do remember
Speaker 2: when you mentioned tongue. I do remember some great fan
Speaker 2: signs when Alan Tongue and Willie Mason. It was like,
Speaker 2: you know, our tongue's better than you or Billy or
Speaker 2: something Alan Toungu who played for the Raiders back in
Speaker 2: the day. But we're in a very PC world. I think.
Speaker 2: I think the ability for people, for some people to
Speaker 2: take a gakus is really actually just to segue back
Speaker 2: to the Jamie Peacock video, I think I wrote that
Speaker 2: he'd been putting a paddywagon and someone took offense at that,
Speaker 2: and someone with Irish heritage. But it was you know,
Speaker 2: it's twenty twenty five. Educate yourself. I didn't know that
Speaker 2: was such an offensive. Yeah, there's someone with Irish heritage.
Speaker 2: Maybe I should have beat myself up.
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean cricket's good for these things. Again, crickets
Speaker 1: a better known sport around the world than rugby league,
Speaker 1: so we should we should pay some attention. I mean,
Speaker 1: another one in cricket was quite famous was the bowlers
Speaker 1: holding the Batsman's Willie, which was Michael holding bowling to
Speaker 1: Peter Willie. Were you aware of that one?
Speaker 2: No one?
Speaker 1: And then there was another one on Test Match Special
Speaker 1: where Ian Botham in the early nineties was playing against
Speaker 1: the West Indies and he tried to play a hook
Speaker 1: shot or something similar, lost balance and his legs basically
Speaker 1: not with stump over and the commentator bass said both
Speaker 1: of them couldn't get his leg over. The place just
Speaker 1: fell into hysterics. Rugby league ones, there's a good one,
Speaker 1: Ray French. He got the words hooker and forward mixed off.
Speaker 1: This was early in his career and and somebody made
Speaker 1: a break and he goes, oh, we can run this
Speaker 1: Houcker A few a few others Rabs rabbits Warren did
Speaker 1: this on on purpose, no doubt. The the Gus Gould
Speaker 1: was trying to explain the escort rule to him and
Speaker 1: the term that had come up in rugby league and
Speaker 1: Rabs goals it's a long time since I've had an
Speaker 1: escort Gus Danga Naine. I don't know what years this was,
Speaker 1: but Newcastle sort of scrambled to score a try against
Speaker 1: Saint George and it sounded like he said Newcastle on
Speaker 1: the verge of fucking it up there, But he's later
Speaker 1: said that he said mucking it up. So that was
Speaker 1: this year.
Speaker 2: I watched that clip over ever again. He definitely sounds
Speaker 2: like he said right.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the greatest British rugby league commentator
Speaker 1: in history was old mate from Castleford. Who I mean
Speaker 1: for those who don't know a lot of rugby league coverage, Morgan. Yeah,
Speaker 1: before before Sky really became involved, there was something called
Speaker 1: micro video and basically somebody used to go and bring
Speaker 1: a camera to a game and grab somebody. Your your
Speaker 1: friend Phil Kaplan was a big commentator on there. I
Speaker 1: know I commentated once with him when Sultan played leads.
Speaker 1: They were even letting me do it. They were just
Speaker 1: pulling in commentators from everywhere and this has gone back
Speaker 1: iral now or rugby league equivalent of viral. Was Morgan
Speaker 1: the whole I can't speak Bottless get Campbell. When when
Speaker 1: Kelvin Skarett took somebody's head off. He's done. He's done plenty.
Speaker 1: There's another clipper. I looked, he said that was forward
Speaker 1: that Campbell, you dickhead. Stevie Wonder could have seen that.
Speaker 1: So there's been a few. There's been a few in
Speaker 1: rugby league that are okay. One of the funniest I
Speaker 1: saw recently was the Kate abdoll of Kate Scott with
Speaker 1: Michael Richards, Jamie carry Ger and Tierry on Ree talking
Speaker 1: about breast FC in the in the league and I
Speaker 1: like the shape of breast and.
Speaker 2: Mica Richards has got one of those laughs. It's like
Speaker 2: Jonathan laugh It's quite infecious.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So that's that's my that's my media watch
Speaker 1: for the week as well. So anything more we need
Speaker 1: to touch on John before I go into the analysis segment.
Speaker 2: No, I think I think that's it. That's fairly quiet.
Speaker 2: Time's obviously what we're more. Well, three more sleeps in
Speaker 2: this parlor world to Christmas, so hopefully everyone has a
Speaker 2: great Christmas.
Speaker 1: Going to come down your chimney and empty your sack.
Speaker 2: I'll let that go through to the keeper that one.
Speaker 1: Have you got a chimney?
Speaker 2: I don't have a chimney now, Actually you'll.
Speaker 1: You'll have to come in your back door. Then pet
Speaker 1: O'Neill pet O'Neill on X said which team would benefit
Speaker 1: most if Super League was to be ref like the
Speaker 1: NRL to clean and speed up the rock? Do you
Speaker 1: have an opinion on that, John, before I steal the limelight.
Speaker 2: Not really, I mean I think I think most to.
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously you've got players with more speed, but
Speaker 2: I think most team would be happy with quicker rock.
Speaker 2: I think they obviously want to slow rock when they're
Speaker 2: defending and want to quick rack when they have the balls.
Speaker 2: It's not rocket science, is it.
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: That's you know, it's the rock is the key the sport,
Speaker 2: isn't it. You've got to You've got to. You you
Speaker 2: can't really win a game without winning the rock and
Speaker 2: dominating the rock. So I think it would benefit most teams. Obviously,
Speaker 2: the fitter you are at, the more speed you have
Speaker 2: in your team, the better you can make use of it.
Speaker 1: The analysis video I'm doing this week, I'm using COOKR
Speaker 1: as an example. They they exit quite specifically, they tend
Speaker 1: to wrap across the field, and I talk about how
Speaker 1: when you move the ball across the field gradually, the
Speaker 1: defense has to ensure that it stays aligned equally on
Speaker 1: both sides of the play the ball. So, for example,
Speaker 1: if there's to play the ball in the middle of
Speaker 1: the field, thirteen defenders, two markers, one fallback, that'd been
Speaker 1: the be ten in the defensive line, play the ball
Speaker 1: in the center of the field, you have five on
Speaker 1: one side. On the other in your front line. And
Speaker 1: when a team like hoo KR or anybody works across
Speaker 1: the field gradually with their carriers either from the roock
Speaker 1: ll with halves getting involved to move it a little
Speaker 1: bit wider, a team has to shift laterally in defense
Speaker 1: and get their numbers right. And quite often defenses can
Speaker 1: get this wrong. And I'm showing on this analysis video
Speaker 1: that I'm going to play soon how there are opportunities
Speaker 1: that pop up on the field as a result. Now,
Speaker 1: in terms of the rook speed that the Pete O'Neill
Speaker 1: asked about, obviously the faster the rooks are, the teams
Speaker 1: that will benefit will be the teams that can play
Speaker 1: the better eyes up football, so to speak, who can
Speaker 1: look up and find space. And this is going to
Speaker 1: be one big challenge for who k are in the
Speaker 1: World Club Challenge because they tend to stick to structure
Speaker 1: in these areas when they're in their own half. Brisbane
Speaker 1: Broncoles tend to attack around about the halfway line, and
Speaker 1: there's a good reason for that. So when you're defending,
Speaker 1: So if you imagine you're in a defensive side, John,
Speaker 1: or viewers or listeners, imagine you're in a defensive side
Speaker 1: when the opposition are trying to exit out of their
Speaker 1: own try line. So ten meters twenty meters thirty meters out,
Speaker 1: obviously our defense is going to lift and do everything
Speaker 1: they can to keep them in that ten twenty or
Speaker 1: thirty meters, isn't it. We're going to be on red alert.
Speaker 1: We're going to try and keep them there. Quite often
Speaker 1: the referee gives a penalty and relieves everything. At the
Speaker 1: other end of the field. When you're close to conceding
Speaker 1: a try and you're close to your own tryline, you're
Speaker 1: going to be on red alert defensively because one slip
Speaker 1: up and you can see the try. In between those
Speaker 1: two areas, they have this no man's land, and this
Speaker 1: is quite often John, where teams have a little snooze
Speaker 1: in defense and players if they don't think the ball
Speaker 1: is coming on one side of the field, they'll just
Speaker 1: relax a little bit. They won't move up in a line,
Speaker 1: they won't be alert. And Brisbane Broncoles are a good
Speaker 1: side actually attacking in this area, staying in some form
Speaker 1: of shape, being alur and just looking for the space
Speaker 1: that exists. And then in this video I'm showing some
Speaker 1: of the space that can exist, John, So I hope
Speaker 1: you'll enjoy it with me and all the other viewers
Speaker 1: and listening. Before I go into the analysis video, please
Speaker 1: let me remind you of the Rugby League coach services
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Speaker 1: you want to look after all your coaches, there's options
Speaker 1: there too. Our flagship program is the Coach Mentor Program
Speaker 1: and also the Club Coach Mentor Program. I'm a coach
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Speaker 1: its fourth year in twenty twenty six, and in the
Speaker 1: first three years we've had eight Grand Final wins, eleven
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Speaker 1: of our teams we're in the top four of their
Speaker 1: competition and there's been one hundred percent of improvement. And
Speaker 1: that's basically just the coaches that we mentored individually who
Speaker 1: who wanted the coach Mentor program themselves. It doesn't include
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Speaker 1: Rugby League Coach dot Combata forward slash Coach Mentor. As
Speaker 1: I said earlier, hule k Are in the White and
Speaker 1: Red have a very specific kind of exit strategy. They
Speaker 1: tend to move the ball across the field, So most
Speaker 1: teams at this point will tend to target the middle
Speaker 1: of the field and target forwards in the middle of
Speaker 1: the field. If you like hook are don't. What they
Speaker 1: do is move gradually across the field with one pass
Speaker 1: plays most of the time. So as you can see,
Speaker 1: j W H has taken the ball to what would
Speaker 1: be the middle of the field, and instead of going
Speaker 1: down the middle of the field, Uoky are keep going
Speaker 1: across the field. This is footage from the opening set
Speaker 1: of the Rugby League Challenge Cup final of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: Now what I want you to see here is the
Speaker 1: Warrington defense, how compressed it is and how short it
Speaker 1: is on the open side. If you like, they've loaded
Speaker 1: their defense up on the short side. And this is
Speaker 1: what I was talking to John about in terms of
Speaker 1: the five and five defensive system. Here it's six and three,
Speaker 1: which is fine, but it does look heavily sorry seven
Speaker 1: and three, my apologies. It does look heavily manned down
Speaker 1: the short side for something that is clearly coming open
Speaker 1: on the open side. And if you look at where
Speaker 1: the green grass and fresh air is, huok are have
Speaker 1: got that just under the BETF logo there now not
Speaker 1: for one minute am I suggesting in the first set
Speaker 1: of the game any team or even hook Ah should
Speaker 1: try and isolate that space. They should probably settle into
Speaker 1: a big game like this, but it's good to be
Speaker 1: aware of it, and it's good to understand what this
Speaker 1: kind of set can achieve. Let's have a look at
Speaker 1: some more and let's see if the same thing happens.
Speaker 1: This is the opening set of the superleag Grand Final,
Speaker 1: so a few months later. This is for the championship
Speaker 1: title as opposed to a knockout trophy. Jok are as
Speaker 1: I've said, and they'll do this in the World Club Challenge.
Speaker 1: I have no doubt they will work across the field.
Speaker 1: So again, this is an opportunity for them to go
Speaker 1: down the middle and just pound the middle of the
Speaker 1: field if you like. This is almost a carbon copy
Speaker 1: of what we saw in the last clip, isn't it.
Speaker 1: And look at the wig and defense there. It was
Speaker 1: still very short on the right side at the bottom
Speaker 1: of the screen as we looked, you can see there
Speaker 1: if this was later in the game, there's plenty of
Speaker 1: attacking opportunities for who k are because of the way
Speaker 1: they've moved the ball across the field gradually. Now Brisbobe
Speaker 1: Broncos are brilliant with this. So this is the area
Speaker 1: of the field I'm talking about, the middle, no man's
Speaker 1: land if you like, where defenders aren't on edge and
Speaker 1: worried about conceding points. You can tell by the body
Speaker 1: language of the wig and defenders there they weren't concerned
Speaker 1: about the ball going out wide and quite often defenders
Speaker 1: will have a snooze or they'll be left short. Another
Speaker 1: set from the Challenge Cup Final, a bit deeper into
Speaker 1: the game, and let's see if huk Are have some
Speaker 1: kind of attack on the back of this. So we're
Speaker 1: in fifteen minutes into the Challenge Cup. I would say
Speaker 1: they're a bit more central in their approach here and
Speaker 1: are getting across the field a little bit slower. That said,
Speaker 1: they have now reached the opposite scrum line from where
Speaker 1: they started. Let's see what the defense looks like. Let's
Speaker 1: see what they do. It goes to a chase, but
Speaker 1: once again the Warrington defense is short. Later in the
Speaker 1: game in the second half, once again hulkr are going
Speaker 1: to wrap across the field. They've got themselves to the
Speaker 1: opposite scrum line to the one that they started on
Speaker 1: and instead of looking at the space, they've just taken
Speaker 1: another carry. Now again everything's game situational, but one thing
Speaker 1: you will have noticed is Jez Litton getting excited there.
Speaker 1: And one thing that wrapping across the field like this
Speaker 1: does is it makes your defenders move laterally. So if
Speaker 1: we watch a cluster of Warrington defenders here, they will
Speaker 1: soon have to move up across or up our screen
Speaker 1: and then back to the betfread logo. And then the
Speaker 1: next player they'll move up and across and back to
Speaker 1: above the betfread logo. And it moves defenders laterally, and
Speaker 1: that gives opportunities for people like Jez Litton or other
Speaker 1: players like Mikey Lewis with good foot speed and good agility,
Speaker 1: a great opportunity to target defenders that have been worked
Speaker 1: over laterally. And I think this is I coach Willie
Speaker 1: Peters likes his team to move the ball across the
Speaker 1: field like this. So this is later in the game,
Speaker 1: seventy two minutes on the clock. Let's see what hok
Speaker 1: Are do on the back of this. They sneak down
Speaker 1: the short side. Now they're in a position where they
Speaker 1: need to try and find a try here, and I'm
Speaker 1: arguing they probably need to do a little bit more
Speaker 1: of this throughout the game against the Brisbane Broncos. Here's
Speaker 1: another screenshot from the Super League Grand Final. This happens
Speaker 1: all the time when you move the ball across the field,
Speaker 1: defenses struggle to number up and Brisbane a fantastic at
Speaker 1: at exploiting this. And basically hook ours defenders are going
Speaker 1: to have to be on red alert wherever they are
Speaker 1: on the field. Here hok are attack and I would
Speaker 1: say they've got a very big overlap there. If they
Speaker 1: were in better shape, they'd be able to exploit it,
Speaker 1: and instead they get caught with the ball in field
Speaker 1: and go back towards the middle of the field. So
Speaker 1: hook are need to be better at that, and this
Speaker 1: is something that all people in the game, in the
Speaker 1: community game can look for too. The Mackay Grand Final
Speaker 1: mckaye in Queensland, Australia, twenty twenty five. Brothers are in
Speaker 1: the blue and white. This is the opening set of
Speaker 1: the game. They move the ball gradually across the field.
Speaker 1: They've got an excellent pack Brothers, and they are clearly
Speaker 1: rolling across the field. Have a look at the Orange
Speaker 1: defenders and how short they are on their side of
Speaker 1: the ball. So anybody at any level of the game
Speaker 1: can can exploit this loophole by wrapping their sets across
Speaker 1: the field. The game seems to be obsessed with teams
Speaker 1: moving straight down the middle of the field to try
Speaker 1: and attack one half on one side or one half
Speaker 1: on the other side of the field to attack that way.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying that wrapping across the field can be
Speaker 1: a really, really positive way of setting up your exit.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for watching this analysis video. Like
Speaker 1: I said earlier, please have a look at the Rugby
Speaker 1: League Coach services and programs at Rugby League coach dot
Speaker 1: com dot au. If you want some online programs, just
Speaker 1: tag the word shop on the end of that. If
Speaker 1: you want our coach mentor program for yourself or for
Speaker 1: your club, please tag on the words coach mentor or
Speaker 1: click on the coach Mentor tab when you are on
Speaker 1: the website. Have a fantastic Christmas and twenty twenty six