WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:07.400 Ho ho ho. Welcome to the third episode of Super 2 00:00:07.480 --> 00:00:12.400 League three sixty, the podcast all about British rugby league stuff. 3 00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:16.280 My name is Lee Addison and my name is John Davidson. 4 00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:21.960 John very disappointed in you. I saw that you got 5 00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:25.960 an early Christmas present. You had a microphone and you 6 00:00:26.079 --> 00:00:28.280 were playing with you but you were playing with your 7 00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:32.640 thing before we press record and it's just not it's 8 00:00:32.759 --> 00:00:33.719 not working. 9 00:00:35.119 --> 00:00:37.159 No, I'm not. I'm not the most text savvy of 10 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:41.520 individuals there. Eventually we've got We've got lots of episodes 11 00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:41.960 to camp. 12 00:00:42.039 --> 00:00:44.759 So and I'm in the Chris, I'm in the Christmas 13 00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:48.840 spirit John, and inspired by you last time with your 14 00:00:48.920 --> 00:00:53.479 bar humbug T shirt on and you've just turned up 15 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:55.399 in army colors. 16 00:00:56.560 --> 00:00:59.000 Yeah, I'm just matching your your red with a bit 17 00:00:59.039 --> 00:01:01.000 of green, you know, a bit of festive brain. 18 00:01:01.119 --> 00:01:05.680 John's and army fatigues. Lee Addison's dressed as father Christmas. Well, 19 00:01:05.799 --> 00:01:08.200 this pod obviously has a British rugby league lean and 20 00:01:08.439 --> 00:01:12.480 more specifically Super League, but we've not done one podcast 21 00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:16.000 yet of this of the two and this third will 22 00:01:16.040 --> 00:01:22.159 fit that that same theme. We need to do some politics, 23 00:01:22.280 --> 00:01:24.840 we need to do some rugby league politics because we 24 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:29.799 go in all sorts of directions, and what what does 25 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:33.000 shock me at the moment is that there's still been 26 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:38.319 nothing positive about the World Cup next year in terms 27 00:01:38.359 --> 00:01:42.120 of England's preparations. All have heard, all that's been in 28 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:44.799 the news is Sean Wayne won't get a warm up game. 29 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:49.959 That's indeed, if Sean Wayne is the coach, Yeah. 30 00:01:49.879 --> 00:01:53.239 There's not. There's not really been much news or talk 31 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:56.439 about that. I mean, I think there's some speculation that 32 00:01:56.480 --> 00:02:00.760 he might get the get the acts, but yeah, in 33 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:06.840 terms of no warm up game, probably very few meetings together. Yeah, 34 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:10.000 it will be I guess systems as usual, so I 35 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:13.800 think expectations will be probably quite low for in the 36 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:14.240 World Cup. 37 00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:18.360 We'll dedicate some time each week to the NRL as 38 00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:22.639 well or each fortnite until the season starts. I guess 39 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:25.439 right now, John, there's not much in the NRL sphere, 40 00:02:25.479 --> 00:02:25.840 is there? 41 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:29.879 No, there isn't And to be honest, just that podcast 42 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:33.360 would just like to sort of express the I guess, 43 00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:36.560 the the shock and the devastation, the sadness of what 44 00:02:36.599 --> 00:02:40.039 happened at Bondo Beach a week and a half ago. 45 00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:43.560 Obviously not rugby league related, but but in Australia and 46 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:46.400 something that kind of affects the whole world. And I 47 00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:49.360 know at least there was a there was a Manly 48 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:53.319 fan who was who was who was killed, as well 49 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:55.879 as the Northern Beach is constable who was shot in 50 00:02:55.879 --> 00:02:57.560 the head. I think he's in hospital recovering. 51 00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:01.479 But yeah, just well, the photographer, Peter Marr was the 52 00:03:02.120 --> 00:03:07.439 was the the rugby club on the Northern Beaches there, 53 00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:12.560 he was their photographer. So awful news awful. I spoke to. 54 00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:15.680 I spoke to a friend who lives in Maroubra who 55 00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:21.680 frequents Bondi quite regularly as a suburb and there apparently 56 00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:29.560 as a palpable shock stroke, sadness stroke, anger on the 57 00:03:29.560 --> 00:03:34.120 streets and just looking at the news, the news cycles, 58 00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:39.639 the news items. It's only just now starting to drop 59 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:45.520 off in terms of intensity of news items. My fear 60 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:49.159 is that the legal process will drag on. My fear 61 00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:52.800 is that there'll be a Sydney lawyer somewhere who will 62 00:03:52.800 --> 00:03:56.960 look to get their name in the sun and to 63 00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:04.199 defend this alleged that we've got to say alleged. There's 64 00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:06.439 plenty of pictures and videos of a man with a 65 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:10.000 gun shooting plenty of people. So my theor is something 66 00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:12.800 like that will happen. Let's not go far too far 67 00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:17.519 down this rabbit hole. Apart from to say, awful, awful, 68 00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:23.680 awful news, anybody who has been affected by listening to 69 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:28.439 this podcast sending our love. I'm sure you agree with that, John. Also, 70 00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:30.759 we don't discriminate, mate, do it? 71 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:35.720 So no, no, no, definitely not so hopefully Yeah, thoughts and 72 00:04:36.319 --> 00:04:39.120 praise and lot as you said to everyone affected. 73 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:42.800 And now I'm just going to turn off this air 74 00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:48.360 conditioner next to me because it sounds like a train 75 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:56.399 in my airphones. Just give me a second, and then 76 00:04:56.399 --> 00:04:58.680 if I start sweating with me Santa hat on, I'll 77 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:01.439 have to put it back on. John. You're a UK 78 00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:08.040 based Australian journalist and over the next year, well, who knows, 79 00:05:08.079 --> 00:05:10.319 we might be going for ten years with this podcast, John, 80 00:05:10.319 --> 00:05:12.879 we might win awards and stuff. You're going to be 81 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:16.879 getting some interviews for us and things like that, and scoops, 82 00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:17.319 aren't you. 83 00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:20.040 That's the plane, Yes, that is the plan. 84 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:22.439 Where can people find you? 85 00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:26.399 They can form me on x Johnny J Davidson, and 86 00:05:26.439 --> 00:05:29.720 they can form me on Facebook at John Davidson journalist 87 00:05:30.319 --> 00:05:33.720 and on Patreon at Rugby League hub dot com longreads. 88 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:39.600 I'm a UK born rugby league coaches coach in Australia 89 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:42.959 a long time. You can find me probably at the 90 00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:47.639 Cricket at the moment, but also admin at Rugby League 91 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:50.800 Coach dot com. But I use my email at Rugby 92 00:05:50.839 --> 00:05:53.600 League Coach on Socials and Rugby League Coach dot com 93 00:05:53.639 --> 00:05:57.759 dot au is my website. This podcast is being aired 94 00:05:57.839 --> 00:06:00.160 on the Ashes, Rugby League and Rugby League Coach Pops 95 00:06:00.279 --> 00:06:03.040 platforms for a while, but please start to switch over 96 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:10.680 please to the Super League three sixty podcast platform. What 97 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:12.519 should we talk about first, Johnny? And what should we 98 00:06:12.519 --> 00:06:17.040 talk about first? Because we're doing fault nightly at the moment, 99 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:19.639 we seem to have a lot of little items. So 100 00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:23.040 the first one I want to talk about and we 101 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:26.600 have had a question about this from a social media 102 00:06:26.680 --> 00:06:29.439 person and I'm going to leave that till the end. 103 00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:33.199 Then there's a reason I'm doing that. But Matt Pete, 104 00:06:33.199 --> 00:06:37.040 the Wigan coach, is another who's decided to come out 105 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:40.839 and have a go at the speed of the roock 106 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:43.480 in Super League. What can you tell us about that, 107 00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:45.040 Johnny D Davidson. 108 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:49.000 Yeah, just to clarify he's not come out and had 109 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:52.480 to go. It was obviously a question I asked him 110 00:06:52.920 --> 00:06:55.879 in an interview. I asked him lots of questions and 111 00:06:55.920 --> 00:06:59.959 he answered pretty honestly. It was on the back of 112 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:05.360 the p Steve Masacor did with the Catalans coach John 113 00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:09.240 Tomkins and the Toulouse coach Sylvan and Jules a couple 114 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:11.759 of weeks before, you know, and they were both adamant 115 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:16.959 about how the Super League has become too defense orientated. 116 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:19.920 There's too much wrestling, The Rucks are too slow, there's 117 00:07:19.959 --> 00:07:23.399 not enough consistency in how they're policed. They're very messy, 118 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:28.319 and I think anyone who watched the Ashes, particularly perhaps 119 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:31.920 NRL fans who then, you know, the first Test being 120 00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:34.800 reft by an English left, or just the way that 121 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:38.160 the English players struggle to kind of adapt to the 122 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:42.600 NROL refereeing of those second and third test, would probably agree, 123 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:44.920 And those who watched Super League would probably agree that 124 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:49.120 the way the Rucks are and the NRLs super League 125 00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:52.040 a light used to part a part. Even my partner, 126 00:07:52.120 --> 00:07:54.959 who doesn't watch a lot of rugby league, when she 127 00:07:55.040 --> 00:07:59.040 sees an NRL game sort of says it's like a 128 00:07:59.079 --> 00:08:03.399 different products, a different sport. So I think there is 129 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:06.279 a realization from a lot of people in Super League 130 00:08:06.279 --> 00:08:10.879 that they need to adapt their rucks, their competition to 131 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:13.560 more how the NRL is playing if they want if 132 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:15.839 England is going to be able to match the not 133 00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:18.279 just the Strands, but the Kiwi's, the Smalls, the Tongans 134 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:21.120 and anyone else who was drawing their national team from 135 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:25.279 the RL. Yeah, I think I think the one of 136 00:08:25.319 --> 00:08:28.439 the issues is the consistency of how referee police is. 137 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:30.000 You know, what is a quick rap, was a slow 138 00:08:30.079 --> 00:08:33.519 rock or is a dominant tackle, what isn't and why 139 00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:36.399 the markers aren't square whether the ten's being policed or not. 140 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:40.360 And I even I spoke to Brian Carr a Castle 141 00:08:40.399 --> 00:08:42.440 for a couple a week or so ago and he 142 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:45.279 was also supportive. So I think the vast majority of 143 00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:48.559 Super League coaches would agree with what Mad people saying 144 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:52.080 and what you know Tompkins and Whols was saying as well. 145 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:55.039 I mean, it's to me it's just been allowed to 146 00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:59.120 slip because a few years ago the Rocks were twice 147 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:01.279 as fast as they were in the NRL because the 148 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:03.399 referees didn't want them to be on the ground at 149 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:06.480 all in any way, shape or form. So teams were 150 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:09.720 doing their best to keep the attacker upright and dance 151 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:12.679 with them if you like. So, so it's just the 152 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:15.600 way it's evolved. I'd say there's a bit more slopping 153 00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:17.879 us in the game in the last five or ten years. 154 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:21.879 For years the markers haven't been squaring the Super League, 155 00:09:21.879 --> 00:09:24.080 and one if you look back at the Super League 156 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:28.559 Grand Final in particular, there was one period of about 157 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:31.639 five minutes where the refact lost complete control of the 158 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:34.120 rook and there was all sorts of messy things happening 159 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:38.559 in and around the play the ball. So they seem 160 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:42.320 to be suffering referees from paralysis by analysis forgetting some 161 00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:47.240 of the basics if you ask me, and I welcome 162 00:09:47.320 --> 00:09:52.600 this discussion. Now, Sky are the TV rights holders for 163 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:54.639 the Super League for one more year at least, is 164 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:55.080 that right? 165 00:09:55.519 --> 00:09:58.279 Yes, that's right. Yeah, the current three dealings at the 166 00:09:58.320 --> 00:09:59.519 end of twenty twenty. 167 00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:03.679 Six, and because there's two extra teams tagged onto the 168 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:06.080 Super League, there's an extra fixture. So there's been some 169 00:10:06.200 --> 00:10:13.360 conjecture pertaining to whether Sky would cover that game and 170 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:18.519 for the same fee that they're that they're paying, and 171 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:21.519 all we know is that the game is going to 172 00:10:21.559 --> 00:10:22.039 be covered. 173 00:10:23.399 --> 00:10:26.720 Yeah, So essentially, obviously under the deal it was for 174 00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:29.759 you know, six games a week, a set amount of 175 00:10:29.799 --> 00:10:34.879 games in a year, and then Super League not really 176 00:10:34.919 --> 00:10:39.159 to anyone's knowledge why, but just decided to expand without 177 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:42.759 most deliberation or that much analysis and adding two more 178 00:10:42.799 --> 00:10:47.120 teams without much thought apart from eliminating loot fixtures because 179 00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:50.799 apparently loot fixtures are the devil. They thought, we're just 180 00:10:50.840 --> 00:10:53.279 adding two more teams. How are we going to fund them? 181 00:10:53.320 --> 00:10:55.720 Or we're not thought about that? Who's going to show them? 182 00:10:55.759 --> 00:10:57.600 Or we're not thought about is the broadcast run? Well, 183 00:10:57.639 --> 00:10:59.679 we're not thought about that. So there's a bit of 184 00:10:59.679 --> 00:11:03.720 a shit fight basically, Lee. But my understanding speaking to 185 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:07.159 a few sources, is that Sky will show the games 186 00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:11.320 and they will pay some of the production costs because 187 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:15.759 we're looking at between half a million to you know, 188 00:11:15.799 --> 00:11:18.279 six hundred and fifty odd thousand pounds for the year 189 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:21.679 because it's an extra game every round in twenty seven rounds. 190 00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:24.919 They will be on Sky and Sky will pay for 191 00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:26.440 some of those costs, but not all of them. So 192 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:29.879 as a bit of discussion and negotiation going on, and 193 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:35.799 as the RFL and Super got flushed with cash, you 194 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:37.679 know they're not They're not bursting at the seam. So 195 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:41.399 who pays for that is quite a big thing. I 196 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:45.360 know it's been mooted before that maybe Super League we 197 00:11:45.399 --> 00:11:49.039 put the seventh game on like on on our league 198 00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:51.120 or on its own Super League Plus on its own 199 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:54.960 streaming platform. But that's not going to happen and it 200 00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:58.200 will be on Sky. But yeah, it's just a bit 201 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:01.480 of an ongoing saga. You would have to I mean, 202 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:03.679 I'm not a businessman, but you'd have to think that 203 00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:07.600 one of your keeper business partners make a big decision 204 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:10.840 like expanding the competition without discussing them. Seems a bit 205 00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:14.200 strange and a bit odd. But maybe it's attacktic to 206 00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:16.720 get more money out of Sky in twelve months, who knows. 207 00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:22.000 Yeah, the Rugby Football League looking for a new CEO 208 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:24.399 and chair as we speak. What can you tell us 209 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:24.759 about that? 210 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:30.080 Yeah, so the last Saturday there's basically a job had 211 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:34.279 published saying that the RFL was looking for a new chair, 212 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:37.759 not of the RFL but of all three bodies. So 213 00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:41.200 it's probably a bit of a long winded explanation. 214 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:42.759 But please do, please do, We've got time. 215 00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:46.679 So we have the RFL, which is the Rugby Football League, 216 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:49.200 which is the governing body, and then within that they 217 00:12:49.240 --> 00:12:53.159 have Rugby League Commercial which is essentially a separate entity, 218 00:12:53.159 --> 00:12:55.519 but their commercial arm which is in charge of things 219 00:12:55.559 --> 00:12:59.039 like sponsorships and TV negotiations. And then they also have 220 00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:03.600 Super League Europurope, which is with the representative of all 221 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:06.559 that was now fourteen but was twelve clubs. So the 222 00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:10.279 RFL not only runs spell E Europe, but Super Egurope 223 00:13:10.360 --> 00:13:12.759 kind of runs itself. But the RFL is the governing 224 00:13:12.759 --> 00:13:16.000 body across all these things. And the RFL is also 225 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:18.440 in charge of the women's game and the championship and 226 00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:24.039 League One. So essentially this was, you know, this was 227 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:27.399 the speculation for months when Niger WAD would came back 228 00:13:27.399 --> 00:13:30.200 in that they would realign all these bodies and try 229 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:32.320 and basically get some of the rid of some of 230 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:35.720 the duplication of roles, essentially cut costs and merge them 231 00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:38.440 back together. So they're looking for a chairman to lead 232 00:13:38.679 --> 00:13:41.840 all three of those boards, so essentially one chairman across that, 233 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:46.240 which they don't have at the moment. I think from 234 00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:49.559 the job at it's about one hundred days a year, 235 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:51.720 so it's not a full time role. They didn't mention 236 00:13:51.840 --> 00:13:56.679 a salary, but look, they constantly do this the last 237 00:13:57.440 --> 00:13:59.840 what seven eight years, We've had Roller Umer and Tony Sutton. 238 00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:01.879 So they say they're looking in a worldwide search, We're 239 00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:04.080 going to look at the best candidates, and then it 240 00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:06.240 seems to be somebody who already works at the RFL. 241 00:14:06.399 --> 00:14:11.360 So I think with a Northern accent. 242 00:14:11.799 --> 00:14:13.600 Yeah, with a Northern accent, who used to work for 243 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:18.639 Bradford or hollow c or Huddersfield. Look, I've said this 244 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:21.080 for a number of years. I think there needs to 245 00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:24.960 be much like Peter Landy's was in the NFL and outsider, 246 00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:28.879 not someone who's come from clubland, someone who hasn't got 247 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:34.159 you know, ties to specific club owners or clubs or whatever. 248 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:36.279 Someone who can come in as a bit of a 249 00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:41.120 clean slate, fresh slate and actually makes some serious change 250 00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:44.960 and you know, lead the bloody things. So will that happen? 251 00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:47.399 I will not hold my breath because I would probably 252 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:52.480 be dead. But it is interesting. Also Tony Sutton, who 253 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:56.480 was Ralph Rumer's deputy, who was the last RFL c 254 00:14:57.039 --> 00:15:00.159 He left in October and abu or Koku, who was 255 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:06.559 a part of niger Wood's review committee, was appointed interim CEO, 256 00:15:06.679 --> 00:15:08.519 much to the surprise of everyone because there was no 257 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:11.919 recruitment process for that. But I believe he's leaving at 258 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:14.200 much so and I only looking for a CEO of 259 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:17.000 the RFL. They're also looking for a chair of everything 260 00:15:17.080 --> 00:15:20.480 at the same time. So the speculation would be that 261 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:23.879 niger Wood will leave then and go back into his 262 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:28.440 hibernation again. He's just come back in a power. Would 263 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:31.799 he leave I don't I don't know. Nigel doesn't answer 264 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:35.720 my calls or messages or emails. I wouldn't be surprised 265 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:38.840 if Nigel went back to run Bradford or have an 266 00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:42.720 ownership stake in Bradford like he did before. But it's 267 00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:46.279 interesting because you know, maybe things will change at the 268 00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:50.120 very top. Maybe they won't, but maybe we'll have fresh blood. 269 00:15:51.639 --> 00:15:54.960 Maybe we won't. And I think the big when you 270 00:15:55.039 --> 00:15:58.639 mentioned Peter the land is there. The big thing that 271 00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:05.120 I think happened there is the game got somebody with influence, Yes, 272 00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:08.480 so who happened to like rugby league as well? And 273 00:16:09.399 --> 00:16:13.360 therefore who's got influence in the UK. Well, the first 274 00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:16.480 name that sprung to mind for me was the Hearne family, 275 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:20.480 and they approached rugby league a few years ago, or 276 00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:23.320 believe or were approached by rugby league a few years 277 00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:26.759 ago and couldn't run, couldn't run for the Hills fast enough. 278 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:28.879 I believe so so that. 279 00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:32.960 With the Hearns, I think I think the offer to 280 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:35.120 them was, why don't you run the Challenge Cup? You know, 281 00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:37.440 the Challenge Cup struggling, it's not what it once was. 282 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:41.200 Why don't you run that? And they sort of said, well, no, 283 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:44.679 we want everything, super League, we want the Challenge Cap, 284 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:47.879 we want everything. And I don't think, I mean, we 285 00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:49.840 could argue whether that would be a good thing for 286 00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:52.240 the game or not. It's really hard to say, because 287 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:57.000 the Hearne success has come in very individualist sports, you know, boxing, 288 00:16:57.159 --> 00:17:01.879 snook car, what else have I done? Darts? And they've 289 00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:05.720 got to I'm not criticizing the Herns. They've been amazingly successful. 290 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:10.559 You know, they're very good at publicity, driving up media rights. 291 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:14.200 But also you could argue some of the you know, 292 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:16.640 the characteristics aren't great, you know, getting in bed with 293 00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:21.519 Saudi Arabia, you know, is that a good thing. Personally, 294 00:17:21.559 --> 00:17:25.119 I don't think it is so rugby league as you 295 00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:28.880 know Lee in the UK and probably more so than Australia. 296 00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:33.039 It's very grounded in this community roots kind of local, 297 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:35.799 you know, it's it's the pride of the local community. 298 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:37.559 So I don't think on the one end, you can 299 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:40.400 have this big business, let's make lots of money, let's 300 00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:43.359 get publicity, and the same have this social impact. We're 301 00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:45.920 great for the community. That kind of thing. Like, there's 302 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:48.680 probably a bit of hypocrisy if you're trying to go 303 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:49.160 down path. 304 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:52.720 I don't know, well, I understand what you're saying, but 305 00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:56.720 that northernness, that community feel, et cetera. There's a very 306 00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:59.799 big brand that managed to pull that off and that's 307 00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:03.000 Coronation Street and they've and they've pulled it off for 308 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:10.759 most of the last century. So I it's all it's 309 00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:13.200 all about how you're packaging. It's all about how you 310 00:18:13.960 --> 00:18:16.960 how you move forward with it, and it's all about 311 00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:20.960 how you present to the wider world. I mean the 312 00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:27.359 classic case is Eddie wearing Eddie wearing Ray French in 313 00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:32.880 rugby league. We tended to hammer these people Ray French 314 00:18:34.279 --> 00:18:40.200 and Eddie wearing God rest both their souls. And I remember, 315 00:18:40.279 --> 00:18:45.480 particularly when I was young, most people in the adult 316 00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:48.920 world I spoke to didn't like Ray French as a commentator. 317 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:51.559 The same with Eddie and Stevel. We tended to criticize. 318 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:58.680 And then as they as they retire and things start 319 00:18:58.759 --> 00:19:02.359 to become glossy eye this some people start to forget 320 00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:05.960 what they used to think. But I don't. I don't 321 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:11.519 forget that at all. Eddie Wearing in particular was moved 322 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:17.240 to defend himself at one point because of the the 323 00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:21.640 attitudes that people had to to Eddy Wearing's commentary, and 324 00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:24.440 the criticisms of Eddie Wearing in particular were that he 325 00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:29.880 was too northern. Yet the BBC, so the establishment and 326 00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:33.119 therefore so many viewers around the world around the UK 327 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:36.440 seem to love Eddie Wearing because he must have been 328 00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:40.440 somebody who pulled in pulled in audiences. So I think 329 00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:44.640 that's what's missing in rugby league, that connection between between 330 00:19:44.839 --> 00:19:48.799 what what sells. There's nothing wrong with being northern, there's 331 00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:51.759 nothing wrong with being a community, and you can be 332 00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:55.799 very proud in that, but you need to package it 333 00:19:55.920 --> 00:20:02.480 and and and embrace it so that people some people 334 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:04.519 literally enjoy you for that. And I think probably one 335 00:20:04.519 --> 00:20:07.960 of rugby league's problems is that it is so uncomfortable 336 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:13.400 being itself, It's so uncomfortable in its own skin that 337 00:20:13.400 --> 00:20:17.960 that that just people smell that, people sniff that, and 338 00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:24.079 then when they do these bungles in the administration all 339 00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:27.279 the time, it's not poor rugby league. It's people laughing 340 00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:31.880 at rugby league because you know, we're too busy killing 341 00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:34.759 ourselves in the process as well. So I mean this 342 00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:36.559 could be a podcast on its own, mate. 343 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:39.240 Yeah, I don't want to get too deep in many 344 00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:43.640 fun A final point on that, I agree on what 345 00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:46.720 you're saying. It goes back to earlier this year when 346 00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:50.839 Billy Boston got knighted and for those straining lists, Billy 347 00:20:50.839 --> 00:20:56.119 Boston's the first, well first person ever, our first player 348 00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:59.680 to be knighted for basically for being a rugby league players. 349 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:04.279 Wel Welsh guy who went to Wigan because he could 350 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:08.000 He's black, he couldn't play, wasn't getting picked for the 351 00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:10.839 last term because of his race, and was a legend 352 00:21:10.839 --> 00:21:13.799 and a hero Wigan and scored eighty billion tries. I 353 00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:15.759 think he was one of the first. I think he 354 00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:19.400 actually first, first black great British player to play in 355 00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:22.160 the Ashes or against Australia. Wasn't the first great Black 356 00:21:22.599 --> 00:21:25.920 great player, but he was the first to go down 357 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:29.920 Under in the fifties and sixties. Just a legend. But 358 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:33.240 speaking OFCSS, Chris Radlinsky earn a year when Billy was 359 00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:37.559 getting knighted. It was basically the kind of dichotomy of 360 00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:41.799 in the UK rugby league players that says this modest heroes. 361 00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:43.519 You can't be too big for your boots, you can't 362 00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:47.960 be a big character, you can't be you know, Jake Paul, 363 00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:52.799 you know, too arrogant to Larry because Josel Yeah, exactly, 364 00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:55.240 we're not. That's not our DNA, that's our sports. So 365 00:21:55.279 --> 00:22:00.440 there's that kind of well contradiction. I guess that how 366 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:02.359 do we make big stars? How do we make players 367 00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:04.880 in the big stars? But then that's kind of against 368 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:07.799 our ethos. So one of these things has to change 369 00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:10.599 or I guess we won't have, you know, breakout stars. 370 00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:13.160 And obviously in Australia they managed to do it, but 371 00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:15.319 the game in England is a little bit different. As 372 00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:16.960 you know, there's. 373 00:22:20.680 --> 00:22:23.799 Different interests in rugby league in Australia though, I think 374 00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:27.720 because of the way it was set up in Australia, 375 00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:33.079 I think the gambling companies were intermingled with it. Businesses 376 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:38.240 were more intermingled with it, whereas in England it was 377 00:22:38.359 --> 00:22:40.920 part of a remote community if you like, in the 378 00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:45.119 north of England it was a breakaway. And but also 379 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:48.519 if you look at the way Australia is structured, rugby 380 00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:52.319 league basically took off in Sydney, which I think, even 381 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:55.839 though it's not the capital of the country, it competes 382 00:22:55.880 --> 00:22:59.880 with Melbourne to be the main city of city time. 383 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:07.720 And therefore, when you see images of Australia, people see 384 00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:11.279 the Sydney Opera House, they see the bridge, and not 385 00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:13.799 far away from there at all is rugby league. And 386 00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:18.359 therefore there's influence in and around Sydney. And I'm pretty 387 00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:21.839 sure that if this breakaway happened in London in eighteen 388 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:25.400 ninety five, the influence would be then. It literally is influenced. 389 00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:30.200 If you if you look at most documentaries about anything 390 00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:35.720 murders or world wars or anything like that, the people 391 00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:38.799 that get interviewed on these things are all influential people. 392 00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:43.200 It's the it's the lecturer from Cambridge or or the 393 00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:46.359 head of this at this university or the head of 394 00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:49.599 that at that organization, and it's all about influence. So 395 00:23:51.079 --> 00:23:53.519 you know that's where rugby league. Rugby league has missed 396 00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:58.680 boat where it probably needs to focus a lot more 397 00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:03.319 of its efforts are on things like getting arrested in pubs. 398 00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:09.839 So Jamie Baker Peacock, there's a video of him getting arrested. Now, 399 00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:12.440 one thing I do want to say about Jamie Peacock, 400 00:24:12.519 --> 00:24:17.559 the former Great Britain leads. Did he play for Bradford 401 00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:17.960