1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,839
Speaker 1: Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is

2
00:00:03,919 --> 00:00:05,719
not intended for all audiences.

3
00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:14,199
Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised. We got a home. Do you

4
00:00:14,199 --> 00:00:17,039
have a check on her welfare? I'm at her home

5
00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:22,519
and she's fast away. What she's fast away?

6
00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,719
Speaker 1: It's mid September twenty twenty three. Fifty two year old

7
00:00:38,759 --> 00:00:42,840
widow Marcia Allen is away from her home in Freetown, Indiana.

8
00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:48,759
She's on a trip to Gatlinburg, Pigeon Forge, Tennessee with

9
00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:53,640
her parents. She leaves on Saturday, planning to return a

10
00:00:53,679 --> 00:00:57,399
week later. On the following Saturday. Before the trip, she

11
00:00:57,479 --> 00:01:00,000
does something she's been wanting to do for a while.

12
00:01:00,079 --> 00:01:05,280
While she installs cameras. She buys this system herself from

13
00:01:05,359 --> 00:01:09,719
Walmart and keeps it quiet. She wants to watch the

14
00:01:09,799 --> 00:01:13,159
house while she's away, mostly to keep an eye on

15
00:01:13,159 --> 00:01:16,920
her cats and because she feels unsafe since her husband

16
00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,159
died about a year ago. She gets them because she's

17
00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:24,359
never left her cats alone that long, and she has

18
00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,159
a bad feeling in the gut of her stomach, so

19
00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,200
she wants to be able to check in on her

20
00:01:29,239 --> 00:01:30,359
pets wherever she is.

21
00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:32,040
Speaker 2: I've never left.

22
00:01:31,799 --> 00:01:35,640
Speaker 3: My cats alone so that long before, and I had

23
00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:36,000
a got you.

24
00:01:36,159 --> 00:01:38,000
Speaker 2: I thought maybe one of them a daughter or something,

25
00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:38,480
and I.

26
00:01:38,439 --> 00:01:40,359
Speaker 3: Felt bad if I didn't know about it, and I

27
00:01:40,359 --> 00:01:42,079
got on to keep it out on my cats.

28
00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:44,400
Speaker 2: I'm still scared.

29
00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,280
Speaker 3: So I got the security survey those cameras because they

30
00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,719
ever telling me hear a noise, I jump. I look

31
00:01:51,799 --> 00:01:53,319
at all outside cameras.

32
00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:54,799
Speaker 2: Try and go outside of the workers. I don't want

33
00:01:54,799 --> 00:01:56,079
anybody cannot jump at me?

34
00:01:56,519 --> 00:02:02,239
Speaker 4: Right, Okay, you even watch it on your phone and you

35
00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:03,519
were you were actually out.

36
00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:11,000
Speaker 5: Went to Tennessee is his mom and dad's anniversary, and

37
00:02:11,039 --> 00:02:14,120
they wanted to go, and any must, I start going

38
00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:18,439
to work and they didn't take long end his dad's

39
00:02:18,439 --> 00:02:19,240
getting the bench.

40
00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:20,159
Speaker 2: So I took home.

41
00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,319
Speaker 1: Marcia has already lost her husband, and she was in

42
00:02:24,319 --> 00:02:26,360
that phase of life where you're not sure how much

43
00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,680
longer your parents are going to be around, starting to

44
00:02:29,719 --> 00:02:34,520
get there myself. It's not a good feeling. She notes

45
00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,120
that her dad has dementia and it was their anniversary.

46
00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:42,240
She's a good daughter. On her parents couch, she scrolls

47
00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:48,120
through the camera app. Suddenly there's a ping, then another.

48
00:02:49,199 --> 00:02:51,560
The AI in the app is able to determine that

49
00:02:51,599 --> 00:02:56,039
there is a person in view, but no one should

50
00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,759
be inside her house. She nervously taps the first click,

51
00:03:00,439 --> 00:03:04,080
and the view of the camera pops up on her phone.

52
00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:08,680
The shape slides across the frame. She pinches to zoom,

53
00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:19,199
then another alert lands. Another clip cues. Her thumb keeps moving, Save, Save, Save.

54
00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,800
She starts counting, and she'll end up with twenty two

55
00:03:23,039 --> 00:03:26,800
videos by the time this is over. One of them

56
00:03:26,879 --> 00:03:31,039
is nearly five minutes long. Obviously, she's in a state

57
00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,400
of panic. As she stares at her phone. There are

58
00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:39,599
two adult males wearing hoodies and moving towards her safe

59
00:03:40,639 --> 00:03:44,599
and in that longer clip of face suddenly turns towards

60
00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:50,000
the camera. She watches more. The time stamps move towards

61
00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,840
six o'clock. A door that should be shut swings open,

62
00:03:54,039 --> 00:03:57,360
and a view shifts down a hall she knows by heart.

63
00:03:58,479 --> 00:04:04,879
She studies the intruder's hands and clothing. The face flashes again,

64
00:04:05,479 --> 00:04:09,960
making her stomach drop. She recognizes it this time and

65
00:04:10,879 --> 00:04:15,520
says the name out loud, her eyes fixed on what

66
00:04:15,599 --> 00:04:20,360
she's seeing. She calls the sheriff's office and says where

67
00:04:20,399 --> 00:04:24,079
she is and what the app is sending, along with

68
00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,879
how many clips she has of the breakin. She texts

69
00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,920
and emails what she can, and then keeps the live

70
00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:36,399
view open to keep watching. Inside the house, drawers open

71
00:04:36,639 --> 00:04:40,319
and shut. In one camera angle, she sees the safe

72
00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,800
and catches her breath. She knows the sound that the

73
00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:48,360
safe makes when it opens. The live feed hiccups, then

74
00:04:49,079 --> 00:04:54,079
streams again. A second figure passes through a doorway. She

75
00:04:54,199 --> 00:04:58,759
listens for anything, footsteps, a scrape, anything she can tell

76
00:04:58,759 --> 00:05:04,759
deputies later. Then, around six pm, everything suddenly stops. The

77
00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:09,279
stream freezes up and drops. No more alerts, no more clips.

78
00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:17,639
She refreshes nothing. She switches to another camera. Nothing. She

79
00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:22,079
knows this means someone must have unplugged the router. She

80
00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:26,360
stares at the blank screen. The safe is massive, and

81
00:05:26,399 --> 00:05:31,480
she thinks about what's inside. Family rings, collectibles, and dozens

82
00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,399
of firearms kept for years. She starts a list in

83
00:05:35,439 --> 00:05:39,839
her head, she writes it down. She tells herself she

84
00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,199
can pull serial numbers when she gets home, and then

85
00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:45,639
she calls the sheriff's office again to make sure they

86
00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,199
got the videos. She tells her parents she needs to

87
00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:49,959
go back early.

88
00:05:50,759 --> 00:05:56,480
Speaker 6: Okay, so I'm not sure if I got twenty two,

89
00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,959
but I got a lot of and I'm not sure

90
00:05:59,000 --> 00:05:59,560
that I've been.

91
00:05:59,519 --> 00:06:02,079
Speaker 7: All the way through all of them, but well, the

92
00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,399
five one shows Stephen's face, full.

93
00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:09,199
Speaker 8: Face, And what cracks me up is he looked in

94
00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:14,000
the midroom and he saw the camera, but yeah, distracting

95
00:06:14,079 --> 00:06:15,360
him and fell about.

96
00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:22,920
Speaker 6: Any and you called into the sheriff's apartment, okay, And

97
00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,160
so do you think the other guy's in the thing?

98
00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,279
Speaker 2: I do his I know his voice, and it sounds

99
00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:29,920
like his voice.

100
00:06:31,199 --> 00:06:34,720
Speaker 1: She only recognizes the voice of one of the suspects,

101
00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,199
but the other she saw his face and put a

102
00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:44,839
name to it. Stephen White. Deputies find him outside in

103
00:06:44,879 --> 00:06:49,199
the driveway at his parents place in Scott County. The

104
00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,240
officer took Stephen away from the house to a garage

105
00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:57,160
where his maroon four door sedan sat. Wearing a gray

106
00:06:57,199 --> 00:07:01,399
T shirt and dark sweatpants. Stephen I did as nonchalant,

107
00:07:02,079 --> 00:07:05,040
smoking a cigarette and waving his arms as he spoke

108
00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:09,680
with an open posture. After having his rights read to him,

109
00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:14,079
he gestured for his dog, Hank to move along, and

110
00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,959
then he took off running, not running with his legs

111
00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:20,879
so much as his mouth.

112
00:07:21,639 --> 00:07:24,199
Speaker 2: So do you understand your rights? Yes, sir? Okay? Hank

113
00:07:24,279 --> 00:07:26,079
go on, So you don't have any idea why we're

114
00:07:26,079 --> 00:07:26,560
here today.

115
00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,480
Speaker 9: Well, they said the show I got me on camera

116
00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,199
last night burglarized in the place.

117
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,639
Speaker 2: Okay, so my husband, if that's the case, you know

118
00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:38,360
anything about it?

119
00:07:38,759 --> 00:07:42,079
Speaker 9: No, okay, my husband and I set up last night

120
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:43,720
till about Well, we're talking to them one and watching.

121
00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,279
Note he's off work today. He works a gym pack.

122
00:07:46,319 --> 00:07:48,199
He started the movie a couple of weeks ago. I haven't

123
00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,600
had time to fancwer I personally. I think I have

124
00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:56,040
strap or something. You've been running a fever. My tongue

125
00:07:56,079 --> 00:07:59,000
is all swollen and sore, and my mouth as red

126
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,519
and white. So let y'all know that I've been having

127
00:08:02,519 --> 00:08:03,680
diarrhea since all night.

128
00:08:04,839 --> 00:08:07,920
Speaker 2: Like our kids with school this morning. That was about it.

129
00:08:08,439 --> 00:08:10,639
I stood up on the balcans and biting the kids

130
00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,120
so they don't get sick of there at school right now.

131
00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,879
Speaker 1: Steven may have been sick and his kids may have

132
00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:22,800
been at school right now, but that didn't count for

133
00:08:22,839 --> 00:08:26,759
earlier that morning. The officer went on to tell him

134
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:31,600
that he and possibly his husband had been positively idd

135
00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:32,679
in the video.

136
00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:35,879
Speaker 4: You know, I've been a police officer for a minute,

137
00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:39,840
all right, and one lie always leads to a second,

138
00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,159
second line and then a third lie on a fourth thight.

139
00:08:42,279 --> 00:08:44,240
It's going to make it look a hell lot worse,

140
00:08:44,279 --> 00:08:49,000
all right, And it'll save embarrassment whenever I show.

141
00:08:48,879 --> 00:08:50,840
Speaker 2: The video or show the pictures and they're like, well,

142
00:08:51,279 --> 00:08:53,519
you know, what can I say to that? Because I'll

143
00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:57,000
there to see the video. Okay, I do too. About three,

144
00:08:57,399 --> 00:08:58,480
I got a picture.

145
00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,399
Speaker 1: Here, so the officer showed them the picture.

146
00:09:01,919 --> 00:09:02,919
Speaker 2: I mean, I really do not have.

147
00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,480
Speaker 9: I what're about the car or the car that you're

148
00:09:08,519 --> 00:09:09,759
in there?

149
00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,039
Speaker 2: This is my car. Somebody fucking stole it from me

150
00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:13,879
on Sunday night.

151
00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:15,879
Speaker 6: And how'd you get it back then?

152
00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,039
Speaker 2: Because I found a police apportment. We found it over here.

153
00:09:19,519 --> 00:09:22,279
Speaker 9: But I had three keys for this, and I had

154
00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:24,440
my one the keys in there.

155
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,559
Speaker 2: The other keydom putting in listen, I have my seconds,

156
00:09:29,799 --> 00:09:33,399
so listen. I just want you to want you to know, okay.

157
00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,679
But there's more than just that picture, all right.

158
00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,600
Speaker 1: He went on to explain that the most important thing

159
00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,919
was to return the stolen items to the owner, and

160
00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,000
if the owner was happy, Steven might avoid charges.

161
00:09:47,639 --> 00:09:50,480
Speaker 2: We either get the stuff back or I think, you know,

162
00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,440
probably what's coming. He's got to fucking jail and set

163
00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,240
and rock. You get the stuff back, you go to

164
00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:56,279
jail and set and rock.

165
00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,600
Speaker 1: Stephen was ready to talk some more.

166
00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,000
Speaker 2: That is just another sider. I'll expand the whole thing.

167
00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:09,720
It doesn't what does that lady is the lady who

168
00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,480
told me to go get the ship. Her name's Marcia.

169
00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:16,399
Speaker 10: Buston, and she asked me to get because her husband,

170
00:10:16,519 --> 00:10:22,759
Harold Allen, passed away in December, and according to her,

171
00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,679
she needed that life insurance money.

172
00:10:26,799 --> 00:10:30,360
Speaker 9: But she did not get that life insurance money because

173
00:10:30,399 --> 00:10:32,360
the policy was set to go to his brother.

174
00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,879
Speaker 11: How old is the lady that you're talking about, Marcia Buxton?

175
00:10:39,919 --> 00:10:43,279
Fifty fifty fifty?

176
00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,320
Speaker 2: Then does she live there? Yeah?

177
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,600
Speaker 9: And now how she got it because whenever she married,

178
00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,519
the man signed a free talent.

179
00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:51,960
Speaker 2: I reckon.

180
00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:54,720
Speaker 12: She gave me an address. She said, hey, how Annie's

181
00:10:54,799 --> 00:10:57,240
to go up in here, and he was a grab

182
00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,559
someone and go up in here, and she's trying to

183
00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,279
meet this He was up there, and I did, and

184
00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:03,120
I went over there.

185
00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,639
Speaker 2: She wanted us to get rid of That was fun.

186
00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,840
This woman has hated me for years. I'm best friends

187
00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:10,320
with her daughter.

188
00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,759
Speaker 1: She needed the life insurance money, but Harold's death certificate

189
00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:19,039
said he died of natural causes. He'd had a heart

190
00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,279
condition that was getting worse in the weeks before he died.

191
00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,799
It happened at about two in the afternoon on December twentieth,

192
00:11:27,159 --> 00:11:28,080
the previous year.

193
00:11:28,799 --> 00:11:29,440
Speaker 13: Not on one.

194
00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is thirty two.

195
00:11:33,639 --> 00:11:35,480
Speaker 14: He said, no state road on thirty five.

196
00:11:35,919 --> 00:11:39,200
Speaker 9: My husband in our bedgroom for he's non responsive and

197
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:40,440
anti relief.

198
00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,360
Speaker 10: Okay, what I dressed the air.

199
00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:52,399
Speaker 2: Thirty two eighty seven, No state road on thirty five, Alida.

200
00:11:53,799 --> 00:11:54,799
Speaker 9: He is fifty to.

201
00:11:56,879 --> 00:11:58,279
Speaker 5: Fifty two?

202
00:11:58,759 --> 00:12:01,799
Speaker 2: God, did you find him like that?

203
00:12:03,279 --> 00:12:03,919
Speaker 8: Yeah?

204
00:12:04,639 --> 00:12:06,759
Speaker 5: I work home and I went back.

205
00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:08,080
Speaker 1: There to shake because she's in the vick.

206
00:12:08,799 --> 00:12:09,759
Speaker 2: And I went back there.

207
00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,159
Speaker 15: He was just laying the floor like he was trying

208
00:12:12,159 --> 00:12:16,600
to get in the bedroom, stating, do you.

209
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,639
Speaker 4: Want to start CPR if I help you?

210
00:12:22,399 --> 00:12:23,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could do that.

211
00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,399
Speaker 6: You just do your CPR and you keep me on speaker.

212
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,279
Speaker 10: Okay.

213
00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:33,519
Speaker 2: Yeah.

214
00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:39,720
Speaker 1: Marcia called for a medical emergency. Her husband was dying

215
00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:44,759
or likely already dead, but this was anything but a

216
00:12:44,879 --> 00:12:45,639
natural death.

217
00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:47,080
Speaker 2: Sure.

218
00:12:47,159 --> 00:12:53,720
Speaker 1: The medical report read cardiovascular disease calcifying constructive perry carditis

219
00:12:54,559 --> 00:13:01,240
severe coronary atherosclerosis of the left interior descending artery. But

220
00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:06,200
his death was way more complicated than all of those big,

221
00:13:06,279 --> 00:13:15,039
complicated fancy words. It was murdered. Someone had murdered Harold Allen.

222
00:13:53,919 --> 00:13:57,200
Fifty two year old Marcia Allen was out of town

223
00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:01,600
in Gatlinburg, Tennessee, with her parents. While monitoring her home

224
00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:08,200
in Freetown, Indiana, started sending alerts about motion inside her

225
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:13,639
house that shouldn't have existed. She saved twenty two clips,

226
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,639
and around six o'clock the feed suddenly went dead. She

227
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,519
called police, turned the videos over and gave a name.

228
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,559
It was someone she recognized, a friend of her daughter, Ashley.

229
00:14:27,679 --> 00:14:30,720
When officers tracked the burglar down, he gave them far

230
00:14:30,799 --> 00:14:35,639
more information than they were ready for. Accusing Marcia herself

231
00:14:35,759 --> 00:14:38,600
of staging the burglary while she was out of town,

232
00:14:39,679 --> 00:14:41,559
he claimed that she directed him to pick up a

233
00:14:41,559 --> 00:14:44,919
guy named Richard on that very date and carry out

234
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,720
the heist. According to Stephen, she was upset that she

235
00:14:48,759 --> 00:14:51,559
didn't receive the life insurance money she was entitled to

236
00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,360
after her husband died. She was upset that it went

237
00:14:55,399 --> 00:14:59,799
to her brother in law. Instead. Now she was afraid

238
00:14:59,799 --> 00:15:02,159
her brother in law was going to take the only

239
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:06,320
inheritance she had left, a safe full of jewelry and

240
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:11,399
expensive guns, so instead she would have her daughter's friend, Steven,

241
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:16,080
who already had a criminal history, steal them, sell them,

242
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,679
and give her the proceeds while taking a cut for himself.

243
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,120
But the story was growing a bit out of control,

244
00:15:24,159 --> 00:15:25,720
as you'll soon learn.

245
00:15:26,559 --> 00:15:29,679
Speaker 2: She told me, and I already deleted all the messages

246
00:15:29,799 --> 00:15:32,360
like she yes to say, I'm going to do three

247
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,120
thousand dollars. You can go to my house. Gave me

248
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:40,360
this safe code. Yes, Martiadon said, you go down there,

249
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:41,159
you can get this.

250
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:46,279
Speaker 9: And I need it all taken somewhere, please, because his

251
00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:48,159
brother is trying to get into.

252
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:49,679
Speaker 14: My house and they want to take me to court

253
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,799
and take all of his Harold's guns and everything.

254
00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,279
Speaker 9: I said, Marsa Arma, and I cannot have guns right now.

255
00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,080
I'm sick of Sit. I'm really sick.

256
00:15:59,159 --> 00:16:03,759
Speaker 14: SIT was on my way the doctor because I told her, listen, bitch,

257
00:16:03,799 --> 00:16:04,720
I'm part of my friends.

258
00:16:05,519 --> 00:16:08,639
Speaker 9: And I said, listen, bitch, I'm not fucking I got

259
00:16:08,679 --> 00:16:11,159
some kids. My husband is kiss a friend like my

260
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,440
dad is. We got a lot of shit going on.

261
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:19,399
I am not about to drive runs across this town.

262
00:16:19,519 --> 00:16:22,080
Speaker 2: If you have shit and fancy, so be it. I

263
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,240
don't want no bullets and no wonder fucking weapons in

264
00:16:24,279 --> 00:16:24,639
my car.

265
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,759
Speaker 9: And she took everything apart, and she said everything exactly

266
00:16:27,759 --> 00:16:31,480
where it was supposed to fucking go, and I got

267
00:16:31,519 --> 00:16:32,120
what I could do.

268
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,600
Speaker 14: She told me to go on Monday night and Tuesday night.

269
00:16:34,639 --> 00:16:36,279
And it sounds to me like she's set me up

270
00:16:37,679 --> 00:16:38,200
real quick.

271
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:43,000
Speaker 1: Stephen, being the sassy ass bitch that he is, was

272
00:16:43,039 --> 00:16:47,360
a felon and couldn't be caught with weapons. Also, he

273
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:51,960
had a lot going on, clearly, a lot of problems issues,

274
00:16:52,919 --> 00:16:55,559
kind of a fucked up life already, it sounds like.

275
00:16:56,559 --> 00:16:59,039
But in the same breath, he said he did it

276
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:00,840
anyway her exactly words.

277
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:02,440
Speaker 14: I want to see hermoved from the house before I

278
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,640
get that from Tennessee and set up my cameras.

279
00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:09,039
Speaker 2: Because I needed to be able.

280
00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:12,039
Speaker 9: To tell his brother that all these things are gone

281
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,559
because their mine, and I don't want them to.

282
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,200
Speaker 2: Try to fight me in court over it.

283
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:18,000
Speaker 12: Over and inherit.

284
00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:23,119
Speaker 2: You know what this next? Yeah, from a text now

285
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:23,960
number to see.

286
00:17:23,799 --> 00:17:29,799
Speaker 1: That Steven already admitted that Marcia hated him. Apparently she

287
00:17:30,039 --> 00:17:33,400
was a racist who didn't like him and blamed him

288
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,200
in some way for coming between her and her daughter.

289
00:17:37,319 --> 00:17:42,720
Allegedly that is so, was she setting him up or

290
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,920
did she just want the inheritance she felt she deserved

291
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,559
and knew he could get it for or was it

292
00:17:50,599 --> 00:17:53,200
even Marcia that texted him in the first place.

293
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,000
Speaker 4: Are you sure that Ashley is not the one that

294
00:17:57,079 --> 00:18:02,359
message you to go do that? I'm not because because

295
00:18:02,519 --> 00:18:05,599
the information that we have that we're getting would be

296
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:07,920
a little bit conflicting on that part, like Ashley.

297
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,920
Speaker 2: And if it is Astley, just tell me. I'm really

298
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,240
not sure's actually Marshall. That's the thing. They've been like

299
00:18:13,279 --> 00:18:16,079
this a whole line. But do you have the ad

300
00:18:16,759 --> 00:18:19,799
your phone? Is it labeled as Ashley if she was

301
00:18:19,839 --> 00:18:22,559
to text you, No, not at all.

302
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,839
Speaker 4: But the person that text said this is Marcia. Lets

303
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,079
you called me on my text now number signing favorite.

304
00:18:28,079 --> 00:18:29,599
Speaker 2: I said, who is this night? Gonna call from a

305
00:18:29,599 --> 00:18:30,400
text now number?

306
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:35,359
Speaker 14: This has been okay a couple of months ago.

307
00:18:36,559 --> 00:18:39,079
Speaker 6: And then it was supposed to go down on this day.

308
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,720
Speaker 9: Pretty sure because it was text now. The call is

309
00:18:41,759 --> 00:18:44,079
on text now. But to be honest with you, Marsha

310
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,319
and actually looked just to like sound, just to like dress,

311
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,599
just to like their the same kind of psychopath.

312
00:18:50,799 --> 00:18:53,160
Speaker 1: Now, in case you don't know, text now is an

313
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,839
app that allows you to text people from an anonymous number.

314
00:18:56,759 --> 00:18:59,480
It wasn't sure if it was Marcia or Ashley, but

315
00:19:00,319 --> 00:19:03,200
whoever was on the other end of the phone wasn't

316
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,480
finished giving orders, and.

317
00:19:05,519 --> 00:19:08,519
Speaker 9: Tonight all was supposed to go back and completely didn't

318
00:19:09,039 --> 00:19:12,319
burn the house down because apparently when she was young she.

319
00:19:12,279 --> 00:19:16,720
Speaker 2: Burnt her house down. Deputy, she burnt her house down, Deputy.

320
00:19:16,839 --> 00:19:19,440
Speaker 9: Yeah, she took her five year old daughter to her

321
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,200
grandparents burnt house down in Depthy.

322
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:24,559
Speaker 2: But you were supposed to go back tonight and burn

323
00:19:24,599 --> 00:19:26,000
the house. I wasn't close that I was gonna burn

324
00:19:26,039 --> 00:19:28,599
her down, house out. I'm not doing that. I was like, look,

325
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:30,000
I'm not going to do that so much. You don't

326
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:30,440
burn it down.

327
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,640
Speaker 9: You need to make it look like you've broken in

328
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,640
there and make it look bandalized so I can get

329
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:35,799
the insurance money.

330
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:41,000
Speaker 1: Steven's accusations were getting wild and he wasn't stopping.

331
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,720
Speaker 9: This woman hated me for years. I'm best friends with

332
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,200
her daughter. Okay, what's the daughters in the Osa Jones.

333
00:19:50,599 --> 00:19:53,000
I'm just saying, you're being awful truthful with this. So

334
00:19:53,039 --> 00:19:56,440
I this to be to be.

335
00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:58,880
Speaker 4: You know, contradicted by by this one.

336
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 2: He's a cooking murder.

337
00:20:00,559 --> 00:20:03,799
Speaker 9: Okay, I know that I've not gone to nobody, and

338
00:20:03,799 --> 00:20:05,799
so I didn't think I don't have no proof on it.

339
00:20:06,279 --> 00:20:08,960
This woman's a psychopath, and I'm telling you guys that

340
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:09,960
right now.

341
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:11,279
Speaker 2: Harold Allen was.

342
00:20:11,279 --> 00:20:14,880
Speaker 9: Her husband, set a life insurance policy for him, went

343
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:16,799
and married him. I don't know when she married him,

344
00:20:16,799 --> 00:20:19,200
because since I've left, I've been away from him. This

345
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,240
woman straight came to my house one day and sat

346
00:20:22,279 --> 00:20:25,000
me across the face and told me, at twenty six

347
00:20:25,079 --> 00:20:26,480
years old, and told me if I ever talked to

348
00:20:26,519 --> 00:20:28,920
her daughter again this she was gonna kill me.

349
00:20:29,079 --> 00:20:31,599
Speaker 2: I'd better watch you better watch her fuck in foot Now,

350
00:20:31,599 --> 00:20:32,960
I was right up there at the house or how

351
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,240
that was what the fun? So was there an Audienel

352
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:36,519
the cards who dipped off and.

353
00:20:36,599 --> 00:20:40,279
Speaker 1: Left, Well, that was a fun little story, the kind

354
00:20:40,279 --> 00:20:43,640
of lifetime movie someone of Harold's demographic would just eat

355
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,960
right up. It's important to state that as far as

356
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,200
we know and as far as the police know, Harold

357
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,920
Allen died of natural causes, and all this verbosity about

358
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,400
murder was just nonsense. What they did know was that

359
00:20:59,559 --> 00:21:03,039
this very vocal character was caught in the act of

360
00:21:03,079 --> 00:21:08,480
burglarizing Marsha's home on camera. And now he's got a

361
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,720
whole lot of stories about what other people did instead.

362
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,000
What about is them? They call it?

363
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,119
Speaker 2: Marsa's not stupid. Here's what I do know. Because she's

364
00:21:18,319 --> 00:21:19,880
killing her husband and her mother in law and gone

365
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:21,759
away with that shit. So here's why I do now,

366
00:21:22,279 --> 00:21:24,160
and I do know how that happens.

367
00:21:24,319 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 4: You need me to ask these guys to go move

368
00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:29,880
to like inside or go somewhere else.

369
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,160
Speaker 2: But what I do know is that we need that

370
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,480
stuff by now.

371
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,440
Speaker 1: It was Marcia who not only killed her husband but

372
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:43,480
also her mother in law as well. Right if it

373
00:21:43,519 --> 00:21:47,960
were only that easy. They recovered the property and interviewed

374
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,519
Marsha the next day so detectives could pin down the

375
00:21:51,799 --> 00:21:54,359
how and who behind the heist.

376
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,000
Speaker 6: I'll tell you that we recovered.

377
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 2: Niggs rings we make to the rest.

378
00:22:00,559 --> 00:22:04,759
Speaker 1: In this case, that would be Stephen White, the other guy.

379
00:22:05,759 --> 00:22:09,079
Marcia only recognized Stephen because, according to Marcia, he was

380
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,480
too stupid to cover his face and he ran his

381
00:22:12,519 --> 00:22:16,319
mouth the whole time. She recognized the other man's voice

382
00:22:16,319 --> 00:22:18,920
and would later learn that he was a longtime friend

383
00:22:19,279 --> 00:22:20,200
of Steven's.

384
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,680
Speaker 3: If you could get his phone, I can, I guarantee

385
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,640
it's gonna be my daughter. And he texted him that

386
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,079
combination of that safe.

387
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 6: So and I was gonna ask you a little bit

388
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:31,240
more about that tape.

389
00:22:31,279 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 16: Three people in.

390
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,319
Speaker 2: The world save is me, my husband, and my daughter.

391
00:22:37,599 --> 00:22:41,200
Speaker 1: Only one name was linked to both the family and

392
00:22:41,279 --> 00:22:46,839
the suspect, and that was Marcia's daughter, Ashley Jones, a

393
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:51,359
friend of Stephen White. She knew the players, she knew

394
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:57,279
the layout, and she knew the safe's code. Plus she

395
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:03,920
was smart well relatively logic solved the mystery. It was

396
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,680
actually no mystery at all. The real mystery was connected

397
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:12,640
to Harold's death. This is the detective who led that case.

398
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 4: My name is Adam Nicholson, and I have two decades

399
00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:20,559
of experience in law enforcement at least, and all that's

400
00:23:20,599 --> 00:23:23,680
been right here in Indiana at the Jackson Couity Sheriff's Department.

401
00:23:24,559 --> 00:23:28,880
I've worked patrol for most of my career and then

402
00:23:29,279 --> 00:23:33,680
in twenty nineteen was promoted to lieutenant, and if the

403
00:23:33,839 --> 00:23:36,799
detective Division would receive a big case as this one

404
00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:40,119
that we're talking about, then I would step over to

405
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,640
kind of help them guide them with it. And this

406
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,799
one just kind of worked out to where I ended

407
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,599
up being the lead investigator on it because we had

408
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:53,079
had another murder within the probably six months of this one.

409
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,400
So this kind of was up my alley, you know,

410
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,599
of what the things I like to do, putting pieces together,

411
00:24:00,839 --> 00:24:02,319
patterns the human behavior.

412
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,279
Speaker 1: Adam remembered that Harold Allen was someone that everyone seemed

413
00:24:07,279 --> 00:24:07,599
to like.

414
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 4: Through the you know, the investigation of talking to family

415
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,359
and friends and coworkers, I mean, everybody basically said the

416
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,480
exact same thing. Like he was a very caring, loving man.

417
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:25,200
He was a good, good husband, loved his wife. Everybody

418
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,759
at his work, you know, enjoyed being around him, and

419
00:24:28,519 --> 00:24:31,160
nobody had any complaints about him at all, And like

420
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,279
everybody was really just sad for him, you know, because

421
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,119
they could only imagine what he had been through. And

422
00:24:39,079 --> 00:24:41,640
but yeah, no ill words or anything about the guy.

423
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,759
He was just everybody thought he was super.

424
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,039
Speaker 1: And here's what a friend said about Harold on his

425
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:49,119
memory page.

426
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 15: I'm heartbroken by Harold's passing. He was a wise mentor

427
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,480
and very skilled teacher to me. Although he was too

428
00:24:56,559 --> 00:24:59,920
humble to admit it, Harold was always giving me advice,

429
00:25:00,079 --> 00:25:03,599
both professionally and about life in general. I continue to

430
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,000
follow his guidance to this day. He could be rough

431
00:25:07,039 --> 00:25:09,720
around the edges, but you'd quickly realized that he was

432
00:25:09,759 --> 00:25:13,400
the most kind and most caring person you would ever meet.

433
00:25:14,519 --> 00:25:17,359
I find comfort knowing that he found love and met

434
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:22,359
his wife, Marcia, who he spoke often and fondly of

435
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,079
my deepest condolences to you and your family.

436
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 1: Everyone who knew Harold praised him and believed he died

437
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,920
of a heart condition. But back in the interview room,

438
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,920
the detective was about to rip that apart with Steven's accusations,

439
00:25:38,599 --> 00:25:41,640
starting with Marsha's alleged involvement in the burglary.

440
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 6: And this is where it gets interesting. Okay, I'm gonna

441
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,000
go ahead and make sure you understand this. Some of

442
00:25:47,039 --> 00:25:49,440
this is going to be accusatory towards you, because this

443
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,839
is what he said. Okay, so you're not under arrest.

444
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,920
You are freely anytime you want, but I just want

445
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,359
to make sure you understand it. He's accusing you of

446
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,640
some stuff too. So here's here's what he says. And

447
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,400
I may have it was a lot.

448
00:26:09,759 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 2: So if I get some of it wrong.

449
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,839
Speaker 6: If I get some of it wrong, I apologize. But

450
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,559
so he says that he received a call from a

451
00:26:17,559 --> 00:26:21,960
text now number, and he says that it was back

452
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,119
in I think he said, like in May or June,

453
00:26:26,279 --> 00:26:28,640
so it's been a couple of months ago.

454
00:26:28,839 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 2: And that basically it was a female on the other side.

455
00:26:33,039 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 6: He thought it was of the line. He said, he

456
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,160
thought it was you, but I think he may have

457
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,400
said something to the fact that you and Ashley sounded like,

458
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:40,480
so it could have been Ashley.

459
00:26:41,759 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 2: And he said that.

460
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,759
Speaker 6: Basically something to the effect and I could get some

461
00:26:47,839 --> 00:26:50,240
of the facts for on this, but something something to

462
00:26:50,279 --> 00:26:55,759
the effect that all these guns, something about when your

463
00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:00,480
when your husband passed away, that all these guns, maybe

464
00:27:00,519 --> 00:27:04,599
some family members were wanting them or something. Well, what

465
00:27:04,759 --> 00:27:06,920
he's saying is basically.

466
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 15: That you.

467
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,799
Speaker 6: Said that you would give me three thousand dollars to

468
00:27:11,839 --> 00:27:14,559
go in the house and take the guns and have

469
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,960
him take the guns and take them back to his place.

470
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 2: He's a liar.

471
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,759
Speaker 6: I did not do that, okay. And he also said

472
00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:28,000
something about something about burning down the house, burning down

473
00:27:28,079 --> 00:27:31,119
your house, he burn on. I don't know if he

474
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,119
was saying he was going to I don't. I would

475
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,279
have to go back because I recorded the whole interview.

476
00:27:35,519 --> 00:27:37,799
Speaker 2: Oh wow, I have to go back to see exactly

477
00:27:37,799 --> 00:27:40,279
what he said. There was a lot that he said.

478
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 1: He wasn't exaggerating, and she was not prepared for what

479
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:45,759
came next.

480
00:27:46,079 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 6: I'll tell you what else he said.

481
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 2: He accused you of murdering your husband. I did not

482
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,920
burn my husband.

483
00:27:54,559 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 6: Okay, something to the effect of some kind of I

484
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,559
don't know, some kind of or something that basically poisoning,

485
00:28:02,759 --> 00:28:03,880
poisoning as drink.

486
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 2: That would suld be a tosscology report if that.

487
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:11,599
Speaker 7: Happened, And was there an autopsy done, Yes, antop trichology.

488
00:28:12,039 --> 00:28:15,480
He died because he had Perry got as that was unintected.

489
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:15,839
Speaker 15: Yeah.

490
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 7: What perry cardid is is the infimat the perry heart

491
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,240
has perry cardon around it, the lining of the heart

492
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,079
that ella protects the heart when it beats. It went unintected,

493
00:28:28,599 --> 00:28:31,000
so it went along so long that the perry cardium

494
00:28:31,039 --> 00:28:34,279
around the heart heartened and it stopped his heart, and

495
00:28:34,319 --> 00:28:36,519
he had a little bit of blocked arders.

496
00:28:36,799 --> 00:28:38,319
Speaker 2: That's an autopsy report.

497
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:43,119
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, if that's what the autopsy said, that's what

498
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,440
it's said. But she was still being accused of setting

499
00:28:46,519 --> 00:28:47,200
up the burglary.

500
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 2: Do you because I don't.

501
00:28:49,839 --> 00:28:51,599
Speaker 6: Know, I haven't been a goal to talk pero yet,

502
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,960
do you think Ashley would have I mean, because you

503
00:28:55,039 --> 00:28:56,200
said that only.

504
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,319
Speaker 7: Through the pans are worth a lot of money, you.

505
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,359
Speaker 6: Think Ashley would have had something to do with this.

506
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 2: She has to have.

507
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,519
Speaker 7: She's only the even new combination and I would never

508
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:06,680
need it out to your dy.

509
00:29:07,279 --> 00:29:11,799
Speaker 1: Ever, Ashley and her fiance had lived with Marcia and

510
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,119
Harold for a while, but now Ashley was living in Missouri.

511
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,599
The only way to get to the bottom of this

512
00:29:18,839 --> 00:29:22,359
was to call her. At the same time, detectives scoured

513
00:29:22,359 --> 00:29:27,279
Stephen White's phone and found some shocking evidence messages between

514
00:29:27,319 --> 00:29:32,559
Ashley and him that confirmed the burglary conspiracy. This is

515
00:29:32,599 --> 00:29:35,319
a montage of some of the things Ashley said.

516
00:29:36,359 --> 00:29:39,119
Speaker 15: I do have access next week to her home with

517
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,160
a lot to steal and sell. It would be as

518
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,480
simple as I load the truck, you go sell it.

519
00:29:44,599 --> 00:29:47,319
We look for more rinse repeat, I mean one hundred

520
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,039
K worth of guns. Lol. I already stole my guns

521
00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:54,599
to keep, she owes me. I'm about to grab the

522
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,279
coins too. I just get to get her.

523
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 2: Out of the house.

524
00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,559
Speaker 15: He only has a D and D and it will

525
00:29:59,599 --> 00:30:03,599
not out for natural causes. Only thing they can do

526
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,200
is say yeah, you don't get it, or where do

527
00:30:06,279 --> 00:30:08,119
I send the two hundred k lol.

528
00:30:09,559 --> 00:30:14,359
Speaker 1: This was enough to bring Ashley in from Missouri for questioning. Meanwhile,

529
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,960
detectives had access to Stevens and Marsh's phones. The case

530
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,599
went quiet for a few weeks. What surfaced wasn't another

531
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,880
clip or a rumor. It was an online order by

532
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:32,720
Ashley with a shipping label in the family name Lynn Allen.

533
00:30:33,519 --> 00:30:37,599
All pointing to the Freetown address with dates, size and

534
00:30:37,799 --> 00:30:41,480
price attached, and the item in the center of those

535
00:30:41,559 --> 00:30:46,480
records hinted at a much larger crime. Was Stephen telling

536
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:51,359
the truth? The burglary thread had become a lead. The

537
00:30:51,359 --> 00:30:56,599
paper trail pointed back to Harold and to his murder.

538
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,680
When Marsha returned on October sixth, steenth, the first question

539
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,680
was the order, who bought it, where was it shipped?

540
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:11,799
And what phone number was on it. The detective shows

541
00:31:11,799 --> 00:31:13,880
her the paperwork.

542
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,279
Speaker 6: So it was ordered through a place that was called

543
00:31:16,519 --> 00:31:23,839
kim Boys LLC. It's some company which is definitely Glycole

544
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,720
was ordered from, says order sources peach Pay, So it

545
00:31:27,799 --> 00:31:29,599
was paid to peach Pay. Do you have peach Pay

546
00:31:30,039 --> 00:31:30,440
or anything?

547
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 2: Is okay?

548
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,319
Speaker 1: Even though the order was sent to Lynn Allen. The

549
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,440
address is Marsha's.

550
00:31:39,039 --> 00:31:41,319
Speaker 6: See what I'm talking about where it says it's billing

551
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:42,599
the Lynn Allen.

552
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 2: Is that's your address right five says shipping Lynn Allen.

553
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 6: And your address again the phone number is associated with

554
00:31:52,799 --> 00:31:55,279
that A one two five two one two six seven

555
00:31:55,359 --> 00:31:56,720
one is that Ashley's number.

556
00:31:59,039 --> 00:32:01,599
Speaker 1: The next day, they sat face to face with Marsha's daughter,

557
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:07,440
Ashley Well. Marcia was fairly animated, facial expressions, a tone

558
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:12,839
of voice that suggested disbelief for curiosity. Ashley was extremely

559
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:17,480
subdued and poised, almost quietly defiant.

560
00:32:18,039 --> 00:32:21,559
Speaker 2: We're not going to talk to you about okay, That's

561
00:32:21,599 --> 00:32:21,920
not what.

562
00:32:21,839 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 6: We're here to talk about. We actually we talked to

563
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,799
your mom yesterday for four or five hours.

564
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,519
Speaker 2: We had to talk to her about some things. She

565
00:32:34,079 --> 00:32:36,119
answered some questions for us, So.

566
00:32:36,119 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 6: We were going to talk to you about some of that, okay,

567
00:32:38,559 --> 00:32:40,079
Before we do that, I am going to read to

568
00:32:40,079 --> 00:32:42,599
your rights. You're in custody. Let me make sure you

569
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,119
understand that a lot of what we talked about was

570
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:52,599
about the death of Harold. We have some text messages

571
00:32:53,759 --> 00:32:58,200
from your mom's phone. She consented to a download and

572
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,200
there was some text messages on there that.

573
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,119
Speaker 2: We have some concern about it. The meaning of those

574
00:33:04,119 --> 00:33:05,000
six messages.

575
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,759
Speaker 17: We have an order works on ethylene glycol was ordered

576
00:33:10,839 --> 00:33:12,039
on December thirteenth.

577
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:13,559
Speaker 2: I think it was December thirteenth.

578
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:20,599
Speaker 17: December fourteenth, ethylene glycol arrived at the address.

579
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 18: Of your mom's out in Freetown, thirty two eighty seven.

580
00:33:22,839 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 17: North State Road one thirty five on December nineteenth. On

581
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:34,559
December twentieth, your herald ended up passing away.

582
00:33:35,319 --> 00:33:37,079
Speaker 2: Do you know anything about ethylene glycol?

583
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:40,519
Speaker 10: Ah?

584
00:33:40,839 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: Ethylene glycol otherwise known as anti freeze. It's a sweet

585
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,799
tasting substance that you can sneak into your hubbies drink.

586
00:33:50,599 --> 00:33:52,640
And the best part is you won't even notice until

587
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,680
he's dead. I guess he won't notice when he's dead either.

588
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:00,279
In any case, it's the murder weapon of choice for

589
00:34:00,319 --> 00:34:04,680
those who don't like guns. You know, women for the

590
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:09,079
most part. The detective had screenshots of the ethylene glycol

591
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,119
order being sent to that address under the name Lynn Allen.

592
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,960
This was Marcia's middle and last name. They also had

593
00:34:18,039 --> 00:34:20,800
messages from Ashley to her mother asking for money for

594
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:27,599
this particular order. According to Marsha, she knew nothing about it.

595
00:34:27,599 --> 00:34:31,760
It was Christmas time. Ashley, her fiance who was also

596
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,119
named Ashley, and the kids were all living there and

597
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:41,920
packages were just flooding in. Who can keep track?

598
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,039
Speaker 4: I understand, but there was only one thing that Ethelyne Galli.

599
00:34:46,119 --> 00:34:48,360
A lot of packages at from Kelmas crystals time I

600
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,280
get that, I mean would do the same thing I did.

601
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,400
I'd rather a shop online and they go to a

602
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:54,039
busy store.

603
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:59,679
Speaker 2: But I would remember a thing of Ethlene guy called

604
00:34:59,679 --> 00:35:01,360
coming my house if I got it.

605
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:07,559
Speaker 4: The day that it does come, which is the nineteenth,

606
00:35:08,119 --> 00:35:10,480
we know what day it was delivered. We have the

607
00:35:10,519 --> 00:35:16,639
tracking number. There's a message from Asery saying we have

608
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:17,320
a delivery.

609
00:35:18,519 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: The focus closed in on mother and daughter. One bought

610
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:27,000
the poison and used it on Harold. Did the other know?

611
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,400
Did the other help?

612
00:35:31,199 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 2: So you know?

613
00:35:32,159 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 6: And part of this stems from also from you know,

614
00:35:35,519 --> 00:35:39,920
talking to somebody who gave us some information and saying

615
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,960
that Harold. The information we got was Harold did.

616
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,679
Speaker 2: Not die in natural causes, basically that he was foolisen.

617
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 5: Right.

618
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 6: Yes, So when we follow up on that and we

619
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,519
get these your long consents to the phone number, and

620
00:35:55,639 --> 00:35:58,119
we get all these text messages, and we start going

621
00:35:58,119 --> 00:36:02,599
to these text messages you and your mom, right, and

622
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,000
like I said, one of the things, just one, there's

623
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,760
a lot of them. One of them is on December thirteenth.

624
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:14,719
December fourteenth, fround that timeframe, fln glackole was ordered. I

625
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:18,360
think you texted to your mom if I remember correctly,

626
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:23,719
and that tracking number matches the same tracking number that

627
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,039
he was at our other defect. He was able to

628
00:36:26,039 --> 00:36:28,639
get of the F one black hole that arrived at

629
00:36:28,679 --> 00:36:30,920
the house on December nineteenth.

630
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:32,280
Speaker 2: The information we.

631
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:37,679
Speaker 6: Received was that there was Ruber floats that were made.

632
00:36:39,079 --> 00:36:42,320
Is put into the Ruger float, and that Harold drinks it,

633
00:36:43,119 --> 00:36:46,119
and obviously the end result was that died.

634
00:36:47,519 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 1: Marcia denied having any involvement in the poisoning. She denied everything,

635
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,480
while her own daughter continued to point the finger at

636
00:36:55,519 --> 00:36:58,960
her in her calm, unbothered tone of voice.

637
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,559
Speaker 4: You know that your mom did something this is probably

638
00:37:02,639 --> 00:37:06,960
really shouldn't have done. I mean, your mom's always fun

639
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:13,039
a bit yesterday, so and you know that actually, I mean,

640
00:37:13,119 --> 00:37:15,280
do you think your mom's shapable have done something like that.

641
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,639
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't know that she did, but I mean.

642
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:24,679
Speaker 2: She's sable. Whatever.

643
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 1: If Marcia was intelligent, Ashley was a genius and being

644
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:39,519
somewhat facetious here, detectives had already confirmed that Marcia had

645
00:37:39,599 --> 00:37:43,400
nothing to do with the burglary. Ashley felt cheated out

646
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,719
of her share of Harold's life insurance, and she was

647
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:52,440
going to recoup in whatever way she could. Still, detectives

648
00:37:52,599 --> 00:37:56,000
pressed on with Marcia, this is the word.

649
00:37:56,079 --> 00:37:58,159
Speaker 2: In the same day that this has.

650
00:37:58,159 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 4: Delivered, there's rumor floats, and then the very next day

651
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,719
Harold's dead.

652
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 16: How did I feel?

653
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 13: You?

654
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 2: Who did?

655
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 7: As far as I know, he has heart condition?

656
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:16,639
Speaker 2: Did Okay, let's we get the results back. Yeah, and

657
00:38:16,679 --> 00:38:19,840
it says there's Ethelyne Blackel and his system. How did

658
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:20,400
that get there?

659
00:38:21,199 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 13: You?

660
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 2: You didn't know anything about it? How did that?

661
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 18: We both made the root floats?

662
00:38:27,159 --> 00:38:30,519
Speaker 3: So I did not put anything in anyone's dream.

663
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,639
Speaker 5: I didn't even know he had anything like that there is.

664
00:38:34,639 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 6: There ever a Chancellor Ashley could have put something in there.

665
00:38:38,079 --> 00:38:40,760
Speaker 5: I have no idea she She literally did watch her,

666
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:41,559
did you.

667
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,119
Speaker 2: I did not watch her, That's what I'm asking. I

668
00:38:44,119 --> 00:38:45,199
did not watch her the whole time.

669
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 15: No, I did not.

670
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 1: Marcia was aware that Ashley was growing marijuana in the house. Okay,

671
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,440
no big deal in twenty twenty six, I guess. But

672
00:38:57,039 --> 00:39:01,360
that wasn't the only botany Ashley was experimenting with. She

673
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,159
was also in all sorts of new age domestic white

674
00:39:04,159 --> 00:39:10,960
woman horseshit, like saging and cleansing, amulets and crystals, demons

675
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,920
and things that would attach themselves to people, even convincing

676
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,519
Marcia that something evil had attached itself to Harold, not

677
00:39:19,599 --> 00:39:23,519
because he was unkind, abusive, or controlling, but because he

678
00:39:23,639 --> 00:39:27,760
was sick a lot. Surely that many had some sort

679
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,159
of demon attached to him, and it was no wonder

680
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,920
Harold was sick a lot. He did have a heart condition,

681
00:39:35,199 --> 00:39:40,519
after all, But was it natural or was it because

682
00:39:40,559 --> 00:39:44,440
he was slowly being poisoned? From the time Ashley temporarily

683
00:39:44,519 --> 00:39:48,639
moved in months before his death, Marcia remembered Ashley asking

684
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:53,280
strange questions about poisoned plants under the umbrella of good parenting.

685
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,039
According to Ashley, she wanted to know which poisonous plants

686
00:39:58,039 --> 00:40:01,760
surrounded the house, you know, so she could tell her

687
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:03,800
little girl what to avoid.

688
00:40:04,119 --> 00:40:10,599
Speaker 2: So looking back on as me stuff like what plant

689
00:40:10,639 --> 00:40:11,039
should I.

690
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,639
Speaker 3: I'll watch out for because Valance outside plane, I don't

691
00:40:15,639 --> 00:40:18,199
wander at hurt she tries to eat something because boots

692
00:40:18,199 --> 00:40:19,239
sticks everything in her mouth.

693
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 8: Still, she would say, like, I know what the poisons

694
00:40:27,039 --> 00:40:30,599
plants were around the region, so she would make sure

695
00:40:30,679 --> 00:40:31,639
Vallet didn't get into it.

696
00:40:31,639 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 3: The stuff Valin has a on you problem since she

697
00:40:38,119 --> 00:40:43,840
was a cree meat, her kidneys didn't develop properly, and

698
00:40:44,079 --> 00:40:47,559
Valot gets around certain things. She gets sick or she

699
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,920
breaks up pass it and she can't hast had emergency.

700
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,760
Speaker 5: Does as a steroids because her body doesn't produce the

701
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:56,320
response to fuck things.

702
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 2: Had she never gotten into anything like that before.

703
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 3: She has and she had him at the air and

704
00:41:03,519 --> 00:41:05,360
she ended up on steroids.

705
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 1: Hmmm, fox club seeds? Is she a witch? Does she float?

706
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,679
I'm starting to think the Salem witch trials weren't such

707
00:41:15,679 --> 00:41:18,920
a bad idea. The fox club plant is native to

708
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:23,280
North America and grows in shady damp areas. If ingested,

709
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,480
it causes dangerous heart Arrythmius, it could lead to death.

710
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,119
Speaker 2: Fox club seeds are stalked about. Yeah, she has no

711
00:41:32,119 --> 00:41:33,239
about the crypt all the time.

712
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:35,679
Speaker 3: Of course I never done about it.

713
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,519
Speaker 1: But maybe she did think about it.

714
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 2: When he went to the hospital. Does he went to

715
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,639
the hostle twice something? Yeah? Maybe most face is.

716
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:55,199
Speaker 4: Bleeding bleeding, Actually, I think that diarrhea, all that kind

717
00:41:55,199 --> 00:41:55,679
of stuff.

718
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 2: She told me, you just have the truthfum face and

719
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,800
so well, same thing. You know, they take the lead

720
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,760
of blood and drawn. Is there any.

721
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,599
Speaker 4: Is there is there gonna be a good chance that

722
00:42:08,599 --> 00:42:11,159
that blood is gonna have foxflowing?

723
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,159
Speaker 2: Probably, so you Okay, why do you think for sure?

724
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,000
Just be honest again, just be honest.

725
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:24,639
Speaker 19: Because she was ordering plants flow plants, I think so.

726
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,639
I know that she tried to get a hold of

727
00:42:26,679 --> 00:42:28,920
some nuther wort, which I didn't know who that was.

728
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 4: Okay, tell me about the fox flow and where it

729
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,079
was ordered from.

730
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 16: I think that she.

731
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 2: Found someone, Betsy.

732
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: This was Marsha's response.

733
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 13: You said I.

734
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 2: Need fox cloth seeds, and she says.

735
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 20: I think you said, I think I can give them

736
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:50,719
a Walt more.

737
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,599
Speaker 2: They're pretty flowers, and then she said, thank you.

738
00:42:54,679 --> 00:42:57,280
Speaker 20: We are watching a new movie on Netflix with the kids,

739
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:58,360
and those are traceable.

740
00:42:59,599 --> 00:43:03,039
Speaker 1: The entire our foxglove plant is poisonous, so it could

741
00:43:03,079 --> 00:43:06,119
have been easy enough to believe that Marcia wanted seeds

742
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:11,400
to plant because of the pretty flowers. Still, when Ashley

743
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:17,000
followed up in a message saying those are traceable, detectives

744
00:43:17,079 --> 00:43:21,159
knew this was bigger than they originally thought. The rest

745
00:43:21,199 --> 00:43:25,079
of the messages gave plenty of clues, but that was

746
00:43:25,119 --> 00:43:29,440
just it. They were clues. What became clear was that

747
00:43:29,519 --> 00:43:32,719
Harold had been sick for weeks and the reason was

748
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:37,480
becoming apparent. Neither Marcia nor Ashley seemed to care about

749
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,880
his misery either. All they cared about was their own.

750
00:43:43,119 --> 00:43:46,800
Marcia messages Ashley saying she's irritated and she can't sleep.

751
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,599
She needs for this to be over. She says it's

752
00:43:51,639 --> 00:43:57,159
hanging on by threats. It's so long because he's big,

753
00:43:58,199 --> 00:44:02,039
meaning something is taking too long because of his size

754
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,760
and weight. Marcia and Ashley often referred to Harold as

755
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,519
it by the way, so that gives you a clue.

756
00:44:09,559 --> 00:44:14,920
Another character, Ashley answers Marcia, it moves slow and has

757
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:20,079
to build. Marcia then says she wished it would quote

758
00:44:20,519 --> 00:44:25,440
reach its climax and be done. Lol. He's snoring on

759
00:44:25,559 --> 00:44:28,760
and off and if he moved around it would go

760
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:34,960
faster end quote. Then Ashley responds, yes, if he got

761
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,199
moving it would be faster, but we know he won't.

762
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,400
Marcia went on to explain that Harold's stomach was hurting,

763
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,719
but his face was better. Yet he wasn't presenting like

764
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:52,960
the stories, just vomiting in diarrhea. Ashley answers, we also

765
00:44:53,079 --> 00:44:57,079
have god knows how many that aren't reported or know

766
00:44:57,119 --> 00:45:00,559
how it grows, only the stories of the self inflicted,

767
00:45:01,679 --> 00:45:05,360
and we will see. If not, we will do something else.

768
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:09,960
But I think it's slowly doing it. The detectives were

769
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,719
shocked by what they found, and when they questioned Marcia,

770
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,119
she had an explanation for everything, even if it didn't

771
00:45:17,159 --> 00:45:20,639
make sense. Ashley, on the other hand, just kept pointing

772
00:45:20,679 --> 00:45:23,440
the finger at her own mother, even though they were

773
00:45:23,519 --> 00:45:27,880
clearly both involved. Probably the most shocking thing of all

774
00:45:28,039 --> 00:45:31,320
was the possibility that this wasn't the first time one

775
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:35,400
of them had poisoned someone. Ashley was currently engaged to

776
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,960
a woman, and her previous partner was also a woman,

777
00:45:40,159 --> 00:45:44,000
but the father of her only child was a man.

778
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:49,960
Well obviously because you know biology. Anyway, guess what. He

779
00:45:50,039 --> 00:45:54,679
died in his early thirties from a supposed stroke. His

780
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:59,639
name was t Y. Now ain't that a ku winky dink?

781
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,960
And then you wonder why people can't find a date

782
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:04,000
in twenty twenty six.

783
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,320
Speaker 20: So there's something. And it's something along the lines like

784
00:46:08,599 --> 00:46:12,679
talking about how much he weighs, and it's taken longer

785
00:46:12,679 --> 00:46:17,400
because he weighs a certain him out and Tie's drawn

786
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:22,159
it up and how much Tie weighed and.

787
00:46:20,519 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 2: You said, love you too.

788
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:26,039
Speaker 20: I just want it done. She said, me too, like

789
00:46:26,119 --> 00:46:28,079
beyond over a laugh out loud. But we got it.

790
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,320
You said, like, what's taking so long? He's off balance,

791
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,840
said he had trouble getting out of the car. She said,

792
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,760
to weight. It takes twelve hours for a woman at

793
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,599
one eighty to feel anything. You do the math, laugh

794
00:46:41,639 --> 00:46:46,639
out loud. It's slow and previously Tie was only one twenty.

795
00:46:47,599 --> 00:46:50,159
So it's the weight, you said, So it's going to

796
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:52,360
take a while. She said, forty eight max.

797
00:46:52,599 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 2: We will know. Also, he's high still. I gave him

798
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,800
a lot of weed, butter brownie.

799
00:47:01,039 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 20: You don't know what he has because of that, no

800
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,000
will could be nausea.

801
00:47:06,599 --> 00:47:08,199
Speaker 6: Happening, and everything.

802
00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:13,519
Speaker 2: Is my found wal He's making me mad. He's stupid

803
00:47:13,639 --> 00:47:14,039
and kind.

804
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: In case you didn't hear, Marcia says, he gets stupid

805
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:22,119
when he's high. So it looked like Marcia and Ashley

806
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:26,599
were slowly poisoning Harold and they couldn't really track his

807
00:47:26,679 --> 00:47:30,360
so called symptoms because they were giving him we'd infused

808
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:34,800
food to help with the pain and nausea. How kind.

809
00:47:36,079 --> 00:47:40,280
But then she mocks him for being stupidly high. Well,

810
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,639
Marcia deflected, played dumb, and spun the texts in her

811
00:47:43,679 --> 00:47:48,239
favor with detectives for hours. Ashley very simply maintained that

812
00:47:49,039 --> 00:47:50,760
this was all her mother's doing.

813
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,320
Speaker 2: And going to kind of get to the mons.

814
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:58,519
Speaker 4: Okay, I mean, we we know what happened to Harold.

815
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,599
Speaker 2: We've got we've got evidence of that. Your mom come

816
00:48:02,639 --> 00:48:04,199
in yesterday. She told us a lot.

817
00:48:04,599 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 4: We've got months and months and months and text messages

818
00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:12,519
from your mom's phone, and I mean it's it's obvious

819
00:48:12,559 --> 00:48:15,159
that you know something happened.

820
00:48:14,679 --> 00:48:16,119
Speaker 2: To him, and.

821
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 4: You know, I mean, basically, now is your chance to

822
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:30,199
tell us what you know about what happened to Harold, because.

823
00:48:31,639 --> 00:48:36,159
Speaker 2: I mean, like I said, these text messages or where this.

824
00:48:36,199 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 4: Stuff came from, the confirmation numbers. I think at some

825
00:48:41,079 --> 00:48:44,599
point she probably dragged you into something that you didn't

826
00:48:44,599 --> 00:48:47,159
want to be in, or there was something to do

827
00:48:47,199 --> 00:48:51,039
with those demons or something you know with that. But

828
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:56,719
we just we just want to know the truth. I mean,

829
00:48:58,159 --> 00:48:59,960
what's your is your relationship with your mom?

830
00:49:00,079 --> 00:49:00,280
Speaker 15: Good?

831
00:49:02,039 --> 00:49:05,199
Speaker 2: Yes? And now I kind of just put up with

832
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:09,480
what she does. She's always tried to You're into whatever she.

833
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 19: Gets into, and she's always trying to do anytime I

834
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:18,360
get any type of financial game on man, you know,

835
00:49:18,559 --> 00:49:20,480
like how I sold my house, she wants it.

836
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,199
Speaker 1: This was a complete lie told by someone who had

837
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:28,039
taken a large amount of money from her mother, not once,

838
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:29,639
but twice.

839
00:49:30,639 --> 00:49:35,559
Speaker 4: I can't imagine what you feel being betrayed via your daughter.

840
00:49:36,119 --> 00:49:38,840
And I can't imagine what it would feel like if

841
00:49:39,159 --> 00:49:43,000
I knew my kid had done something. You know, but this,

842
00:49:43,159 --> 00:49:46,000
you know at this point, I mean, there is so

843
00:49:46,199 --> 00:49:50,880
much content there and I would almost call it evidence.

844
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,840
And like you said, we didn't go into detail in there.

845
00:49:55,480 --> 00:50:00,039
What we make of those messages. I mean we' we

846
00:50:00,119 --> 00:50:01,559
have more than just the messages.

847
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 2: We have some of the results in the hospital when

848
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:08,079
he went to the hospital back.

849
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:15,280
Speaker 4: In November, and the symptoms that he was experiencing, which

850
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,880
remind you is the same day that within the same

851
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:21,159
time for him when I say the bat day with

852
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:25,119
the fox gloves are mentioned and the symptoms of fox

853
00:50:25,159 --> 00:50:28,480
gloves seet what happens is the you know, the bleeding

854
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:31,880
and the stomach and the.

855
00:50:31,559 --> 00:50:34,599
Speaker 2: Face that you guys are talking about.

856
00:50:34,639 --> 00:50:37,599
Speaker 4: And then one one thing that he didn't get to

857
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,360
all the way down was on the nineteenth whenever the

858
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:46,440
Ethelene Vikhl gets there is the conversations then, but you know,

859
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:48,400
like it's there. Then there were some pictures, you know,

860
00:50:48,559 --> 00:50:50,440
like I said, the rout beard and things like that.

861
00:50:51,679 --> 00:50:55,519
Speaker 1: Detectives gave Marcia every opportunity to point the finger back

862
00:50:55,559 --> 00:51:00,679
at Ashley or just come clean, but he refused.

863
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,800
Speaker 2: I'm not going to be shocked at this point.

864
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 4: To be shocked, you would have to not believe any

865
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:11,320
of the messages between you and Assad to be shocked

866
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,280
at it wouldn't be in a system, or you wouldn't

867
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,760
believe any of the stuff on the Google search.

868
00:51:17,679 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 2: Was never Google.

869
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:21,800
Speaker 18: I mean, and what Steven tells us, I mean, he

870
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,719
says root beer float and that's what'll be fine, right,

871
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:28,440
you know, not long after Ethlene Gleichols or sent to

872
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,559
your house and the name is addressed to his Win Allen.

873
00:51:32,679 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 6: What's your middle name is Lynn and it's your address.

874
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:36,320
Speaker 5: And so.

875
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,639
Speaker 20: I mean, I know what you We've already told you

876
00:51:40,679 --> 00:51:42,880
all this, and you already know all this. But that's

877
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:44,840
why we are where we're at.

878
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean, and I know you're smart, and

879
00:51:48,079 --> 00:51:50,599
you you say you already you know how this looks.

880
00:51:51,199 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 2: I mean, this stuff doesn't look good.

881
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 21: And then to have this on top of it, and

882
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,159
I mean, there was enough that you know, the the

883
00:52:00,199 --> 00:52:03,239
courses and grudge and prosecu and you know, have issued

884
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:05,199
more for the for the phones.

885
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:09,679
Speaker 1: And during the interviews, detectives went back to the phone

886
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:16,559
copy they saw gaps. Marcia had deleted a lot of texts.

887
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,440
This is Detective Adam Nicholson again.

888
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,679
Speaker 4: And after she submitted to the phone downloaders or consented,

889
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:29,079
she actually deleted the messages in the interview room between

890
00:52:29,119 --> 00:52:31,559
her and Ashley. Because Clint had to step out of

891
00:52:31,599 --> 00:52:34,760
the interview room for a second and grabbed the consent

892
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:38,199
for him for her to sign, so and he couldn't

893
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,960
like take her phone with him because you know, she

894
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,599
hadn't she hadn't signed it yet, but she had consented.

895
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,480
And while he's gone, she's going through her phone, she's

896
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:52,360
deleting things. She told him that she was just deleting

897
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:56,199
like pictures from her security camera, like of her, uh

898
00:52:56,519 --> 00:52:58,719
in the house or you know where she was, like

899
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,440
in her underwear and stuff, and she didn't necessarily want

900
00:53:01,519 --> 00:53:04,679
us to see that, which was understandable, you know, But

901
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,039
when she gave us the phone, I thought, there's no

902
00:53:07,159 --> 00:53:11,400
way that that there's anything on that phone. There's no

903
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:13,320
way she would have gave it to us. So I

904
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:15,960
think that she thought by deleting those messages that she

905
00:53:16,079 --> 00:53:18,679
was probably free and clear. And then she didn't hear

906
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:23,920
back from us until October. That was September twentieth. We

907
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,079
showed up early in the morning on the sixteenth of October,

908
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:31,159
this would have been twenty twenty three, and we had

909
00:53:31,199 --> 00:53:37,119
search worms for her house for all electronic devices like laptops, computers,

910
00:53:37,519 --> 00:53:42,440
old cell phones, memory sticks, or flash drives, hard drives,

911
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:46,159
things like that. She didn't know we were coming until

912
00:53:46,159 --> 00:53:48,639
we knocked on the door. Yeah, we knocked on the

913
00:53:48,639 --> 00:53:50,719
door early in the morning. She had just got out

914
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:52,440
of bed of the pier. She was like in her

915
00:53:53,199 --> 00:53:57,760
still like Pj's and you can tell then she was shocked.

916
00:53:58,039 --> 00:54:02,559
And I read the warrants to her, and the warrant

917
00:54:02,639 --> 00:54:08,400
actually mentions like to seize the property for evidence of murder,

918
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,679
for the crime of murder. And I remember, like her

919
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:14,119
face is like you know if you if you watch

920
00:54:14,199 --> 00:54:16,280
that video, yeah, you can tell, like she knows then,

921
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:20,800
like and she agreed. So she me and Clint took

922
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,119
her back to the shrif's apartment while the other officers

923
00:54:23,159 --> 00:54:29,239
and detectives completed the search warrant. And so I think

924
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:33,000
that was probably her first moment of like noe, like yeah,

925
00:54:33,119 --> 00:54:37,280
they there's there's they know something they knew.

926
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 1: Ashley and her mother had discussed how long it would

927
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:45,239
stay in someone's body, how no one would notice, and

928
00:54:46,079 --> 00:54:49,719
how to make it ready for use by saying I

929
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:53,840
need something that crushes this into powder. They also had

930
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:57,880
testimony of Ashley's partner recalling that Ashley was grinding up

931
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:02,119
something she put in Harold's brownie, throwing the grinder away

932
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:06,639
afterwards and telling her lover not to say anything about it.

933
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:11,800
On October seventeenth, Ashley interviewed with detectives from jail after

934
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:15,679
being arrested for the burglary. They were surprised she said

935
00:55:15,679 --> 00:55:18,199
anything at all, because when they picked her up in

936
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:21,639
Missouri for the burglary, she immediately asked for an attorney.

937
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 4: I'm proud of Detective Bircham and the job he did

938
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:28,400
and myself, and you know, it was just one of

939
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,719
those though that it couldn't be at our best because

940
00:55:32,119 --> 00:55:35,480
our hands were tied, you know, like we we knew

941
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:38,039
with Marcia because we were told the prosecutor told us

942
00:55:38,039 --> 00:55:40,440
if we didn't get a confession, we couldn't arrest her.

943
00:55:40,599 --> 00:55:42,039
I mean, we kind of went in, you know, like

944
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:45,480
I wanted to know that if she told me to,

945
00:55:46,079 --> 00:55:48,800
you know, go screw off, that you know, I could

946
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,440
arrest her. But I didn't have that in my back pocket,

947
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:56,639
you know, so I had to sit there and play dumb,

948
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:58,920
play nice, you know, try to go along with what

949
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:01,079
she was saying, Try to act like I was believing

950
00:56:01,119 --> 00:56:04,360
what I mean, because if the moment I started pushing

951
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:08,440
on her, she got very upset and I could tell

952
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:11,679
that she was close to probably saying, you know, like

953
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:13,800
I want an attorney, And if she would have said,

954
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,239
you know, I want an attorney, then game over.

955
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,199
Speaker 2: That's the law, and we respect that.

956
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 4: You can't you can't keep questioning somebody once they say that,

957
00:56:21,599 --> 00:56:24,559
So we had to be very very careful on how

958
00:56:24,599 --> 00:56:29,960
we approached that interview, you know, knowing how hard it

959
00:56:30,039 --> 00:56:32,360
is and having it happened to me before, like how

960
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,400
easy it is for somebody to say I want an attorney,

961
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:37,800
like you're done, and we had already been told like,

962
00:56:38,199 --> 00:56:42,079
you can't arrest her if she doesn't confess, so we

963
00:56:42,119 --> 00:56:43,679
didn't get an arrest her. And it was the same

964
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:46,400
thing with Ashley, except we already had that experience with

965
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:49,960
Ashley once because she was when she got arrested in Missouri,

966
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:53,559
Me and Clint Birtum, the detective, had also went out

967
00:56:53,559 --> 00:56:57,079
there and they brought her back to their sheriff's department.

968
00:56:58,119 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 2: We went in to talk to her just.

969
00:57:00,199 --> 00:57:02,800
Speaker 4: About the burglary, not about the murder at all, like

970
00:57:03,039 --> 00:57:05,880
we were just there to talk about the burglary and

971
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:08,159
didn't want her to even know that we knew about

972
00:57:08,159 --> 00:57:12,719
the murder. And she requested the attorney like almost immediately

973
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,239
they said, you know, she wanted an attorney. So when

974
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:19,599
she got brought back to Jackson County, you know, we

975
00:57:19,599 --> 00:57:21,960
we had hopes, but they weren't very high like we thought.

976
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:23,280
You know, as soon as we go in there and

977
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:25,320
tell her, you know, hey, we don't want to talk

978
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:26,320
to you about the burglary.

979
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 2: We don't.

980
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,239
Speaker 4: We can't talk to you about that. You requested an attorney,

981
00:57:29,239 --> 00:57:31,239
but we want to talk to you about the death

982
00:57:31,239 --> 00:57:34,519
of Harold. Like I thought one hundred percent she was

983
00:57:34,559 --> 00:57:36,719
going to say, I don't want to talk to you,

984
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:38,320
but she did.

985
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 1: During that interview, Ashley talked, but her words mainly implicated

986
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:50,480
her mother, which was no surprise, but the detectives had

987
00:57:50,559 --> 00:57:53,679
an unfortunate surprise for her.

988
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,159
Speaker 6: So I'm talking about something completely different.

989
00:58:01,079 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 16: It's not gonna be an easy conversation.

990
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 13: Okay, After your momentary yesterday and spoke with us.

991
00:58:08,159 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 2: We got a call to have a check on her welfare.

992
00:58:11,719 --> 00:58:14,760
I'm at her home and she's pass away.

993
00:58:16,039 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 13: What's she passed away?

994
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 2: What happened?

995
00:58:23,559 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 13: Without going into a lot of detail, she appeared that

996
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:34,840
there was something ingested possibly and pass away.

997
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:40,679
Speaker 2: You're serious.

998
00:58:41,079 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 16: I'm one hunder serious because.

999
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:46,239
Speaker 2: She killed herself.

1000
00:58:47,599 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 16: That is what that's what we believe happened.

1001
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:57,559
Speaker 2: Yes, don't make shock. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Please have

1002
00:58:57,679 --> 00:58:58,679
nothing to apologize for.

1003
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:04,599
Speaker 16: I felt it was necessary to let you know that

1004
00:59:07,679 --> 00:59:14,239
I'm very sorry for the loss.

1005
00:59:15,519 --> 00:59:22,679
Speaker 1: In hours of tape, Ashley stayed flat, measured, careful, clinical.

1006
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:28,400
Almost The only crack comes when detectives tell her Marcia

1007
00:59:28,519 --> 00:59:33,880
her mother is dead. That's when the mask suddenly slips,

1008
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:40,280
her voice wobbles, her breath catches, and for one minute,

1009
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:46,960
the room feels human again. It's a strange tragedy. Mother

1010
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:50,800
and daughter so tightly bound together that they eliminate the

1011
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:55,800
person they feel is getting in the way, Harold. They

1012
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:59,039
talked of plans to sell the place and move in together,

1013
01:00:00,239 --> 01:00:05,800
but then the pressure begins mounting. Marcia knows that Ashley

1014
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:09,079
will likely be in prison for a very long time,

1015
01:00:10,039 --> 01:00:15,239
and they're coming for her next, so she takes an

1016
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:19,280
easy exit. If her daughter could betray her so easily,

1017
01:00:20,519 --> 01:00:24,360
she would do the same. What Marcia couldn't have known

1018
01:00:24,559 --> 01:01:06,280
was what Ashley would do next. Fifty seven year old

1019
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:11,000
Harold Allen died at home in Freetown, Indiana, on December twentieth,

1020
01:01:11,119 --> 01:01:16,599
twenty twenty two, five days before Christmas. His death was

1021
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:22,159
first certified as natural. Months later, a September nineteenth, twenty

1022
01:01:22,199 --> 01:01:26,280
twenty three burglary at the same house drew detectives back.

1023
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,079
Marsha Allen, Harold's wife, had been out of town when

1024
01:01:30,639 --> 01:01:34,880
home cameras captured Stephen White, who was happy to spill

1025
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:38,360
all the tea in the world with plenty of dramatic flare,

1026
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:42,320
I might add, and phone messages tied the brake in

1027
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:49,079
to Marsha's daughter and friend of Stephen, Ashley Jones. Detectives

1028
01:01:49,079 --> 01:01:53,960
then shifted from burglary to death. Records showed an online

1029
01:01:54,079 --> 01:01:57,199
order shipped under the family name to the Freetown address,

1030
01:01:58,159 --> 01:02:01,400
and interviews on October sixteenth and seventeen, twenty twenty three

1031
01:02:02,079 --> 01:02:05,360
focused on whether that chemical ended up in Harold's drink,

1032
01:02:06,039 --> 01:02:11,280
a root beer float. Marcia had denied the order, Ashley

1033
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:16,320
had pointed to Marcia, but soon evidence tied them both

1034
01:02:16,639 --> 01:02:20,679
to the murder. Just before detectives would have arrested Marcia,

1035
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:26,400
they found her at home, dead in her bed of suicide.

1036
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:31,840
As for Harold, toxicology later reported ethylene glycol, and the

1037
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:36,559
death certificate was amended. Review of Marcia and Ashley's text

1038
01:02:36,639 --> 01:02:41,559
messages alluded to an even bigger mystery. Was this Ashley's

1039
01:02:41,559 --> 01:02:46,639
first attempt at poisoning? Detectives found it beyond strange that

1040
01:02:47,199 --> 01:02:52,079
get this. Ashley's ex husband also died of supposed heart

1041
01:02:52,119 --> 01:02:54,840
conditions or a stroke.

1042
01:02:56,239 --> 01:02:56,440
Speaker 2: Hmm.

1043
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 1: Suspicious when you say he died at a very young

1044
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:07,519
age just days after he received an inheritance. Could that

1045
01:03:07,599 --> 01:03:12,280
be a coincidence? Ashley Jones was arrested and charged in

1046
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:16,280
October of twenty twenty three with murder, conspiracy to commit murder,

1047
01:03:16,559 --> 01:03:21,199
attempted murder, and burglary tied to Harold Allen's death and

1048
01:03:21,239 --> 01:03:25,599
the September twenty twenty three break in. She later pleaded

1049
01:03:25,599 --> 01:03:29,760
guilty in twenty twenty five to Level one felony conspiracy

1050
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:33,000
to commit murder and attempted murder and was sentenced to

1051
01:03:33,079 --> 01:03:38,320
fifty years in Jackson's Circuit Court. But Ashley, being the wonderful,

1052
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:42,519
well adjusted human that she was, wasn't finished getting rid

1053
01:03:42,599 --> 01:03:46,760
of people. After only a few months of incarceration, she

1054
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:53,079
hatched a plan. It involved a jailmate named Anita. Detective

1055
01:03:53,159 --> 01:03:55,960
Nicholson just happened to know Anita.

1056
01:03:56,719 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 4: You know, I worked in the jail for like five

1057
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:03,480
years to becoming a deputy in two thousand and five,

1058
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,119
So from two thousand to two thousand and five, I

1059
01:04:06,199 --> 01:04:08,559
was a jail officer, so I'm familiar with a lot

1060
01:04:08,559 --> 01:04:10,840
of the inmates that you know, they're in and out,

1061
01:04:12,079 --> 01:04:14,800
and you know, this case had been in the news

1062
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:17,360
a few times, so I'm sure that Anita probably knew

1063
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:19,679
that I was the officer that was working at and

1064
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:23,920
she reached out to a jail officer to let her

1065
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:26,599
know that she wanted to talk to me. I actually

1066
01:04:26,679 --> 01:04:31,599
knew that Anita was going to be getting released pretty soon.

1067
01:04:31,679 --> 01:04:36,679
She wasn't on like any real serious charges, and Anita

1068
01:04:36,719 --> 01:04:39,800
and Ashley were in that cell together. Well, word traveled

1069
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:43,920
pretty quick when Anita came in, because Ashley had already

1070
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:46,920
been in jail, and when Anita came in, word traveled

1071
01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:51,039
pretty quick about who she was and who her connections were.

1072
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:56,199
And there's a I hate to even call it a

1073
01:04:56,239 --> 01:04:59,440
gang because it's really not a gang. And if they

1074
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:02,039
were a gag, they're not into like killing people. It's

1075
01:05:02,039 --> 01:05:06,320
not that kind of gang. But I think Ashley started,

1076
01:05:06,559 --> 01:05:09,440
you know, seeing things like she's never been in jail.

1077
01:05:09,519 --> 01:05:12,519
She didn't she didn't know, you know, Anita, she didn't

1078
01:05:12,559 --> 01:05:16,760
know what this gang was about. And she just heard

1079
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:19,320
the word gang and thought, well, I could you know,

1080
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:23,000
sweet talk her and you know, befriend her in jail

1081
01:05:23,039 --> 01:05:26,239
here and then get her to have these people that

1082
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:29,880
she's friends with in this gang go and kill the

1083
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:34,239
people that are mentioned in my case and I'm going

1084
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:35,280
to testify against me.

1085
01:05:36,519 --> 01:05:39,800
Speaker 1: Yep, she was going to have someone in this so

1086
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:44,519
called gang go and killed them all.

1087
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 2: She basically wrote a letter that.

1088
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:53,920
Speaker 4: Was going to go out in Anita's mail, and she

1089
01:05:54,079 --> 01:05:57,920
gave you know, Anita the letter to put in with

1090
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:02,800
her mail, and instead of sealing it, Anita took that

1091
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:05,800
part of the letter out and hit it and then

1092
01:06:06,199 --> 01:06:08,840
waited till she could see me, and she provided me

1093
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:12,440
with the letter that Astley wrote, and it was the

1094
01:06:12,559 --> 01:06:16,199
letter that she wrote to the so called hit man

1095
01:06:16,239 --> 01:06:18,280
you know, that she thought was a hit man, and

1096
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:21,159
that try was wanting him to go all the way

1097
01:06:21,199 --> 01:06:25,360
to Massachusetts and kill her fiance and kill Steven and

1098
01:06:25,519 --> 01:06:28,920
Nathan that were in jail. And then there was some

1099
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:32,159
other people and I can't remember exactly who else, but yes,

1100
01:06:32,239 --> 01:06:35,320
she was just trying to get people taken out before

1101
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:37,000
they'd have a chance to testify on her.

1102
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 1: If you thought the text between Marcia and Ashley were cryptic,

1103
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:44,760
wait until you hear about this hit letter. She pretended

1104
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:47,679
it was a list of people she wanted prayers for.

1105
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:52,079
A prayer list. How spiritual of her.

1106
01:06:53,039 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 15: A lot of things have been on my heart and mind,

1107
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:57,360
but I feel the best way to overcome and be

1108
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:00,440
set free from it is some prayer. I would like

1109
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:02,679
the following people to be added to the prayer list

1110
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:06,239
as soon as possible. How the Church lift these people

1111
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:09,320
as high as can be to the Lord so everyone

1112
01:07:09,599 --> 01:07:11,039
may find rest in peace.

1113
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:15,880
Speaker 1: She then lists out all the people with their first, middle,

1114
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:20,559
and last names, as well as exact locations and what

1115
01:07:20,599 --> 01:07:25,719
they had done to her, saying that prayer knows no bounds.

1116
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:29,840
I mean, you got to give God GPS coordinates for

1117
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:33,960
each person you're praying for. Right here's just a snippet

1118
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:35,599
of the inmates interview.

1119
01:07:36,239 --> 01:07:38,119
Speaker 4: No one, did you know that we that we heard

1120
01:07:38,559 --> 01:07:40,599
or that we thought we heard as we want to

1121
01:07:40,599 --> 01:07:45,440
make sure as that there was a high power rifle

1122
01:07:45,559 --> 01:07:47,320
mentioned and maybe two shots.

1123
01:07:47,039 --> 01:07:54,320
Speaker 2: To the neck right here, she said, goods insteads high

1124
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:59,960
hier rifle. Right here, savers every nerve he shows you

1125
01:08:00,079 --> 01:08:03,360
instantly right here? Okay, so.

1126
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 16: Specifically right here, right here.

1127
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:15,239
Speaker 1: She points to the base of her skull and to

1128
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:19,000
her forehead, saying those are the two places Ashley said

1129
01:08:19,119 --> 01:08:22,319
would cause instant death when struck with a bullet.

1130
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:25,640
Speaker 6: Who was she wanting her to set as she is?

1131
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:26,680
Speaker 2: To take out the girl?

1132
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:34,680
Speaker 1: And I don't know if you guys heard that. Ashley

1133
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:39,960
told Anita to take out Ashley, her fiance and her

1134
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:44,800
fiance's little girl. That would be the same little girl

1135
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:51,760
who lived with both Ashley's You see, Ashley Jones hated,

1136
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:58,880
hated her fiance's little girl, so why not take her

1137
01:08:58,960 --> 01:08:59,439
out too?

1138
01:09:00,199 --> 01:09:00,560
Speaker 2: Are at it?

1139
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:04,479
Speaker 1: In some of the text messages with Marcia, Ashley said,

1140
01:09:05,279 --> 01:09:09,359
let her starve. I hate the kid. She just sits

1141
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:16,319
and just does nothing, looking fat ugly and stupid. Remember

1142
01:09:16,319 --> 01:09:18,199
when they used to make fun of family values and

1143
01:09:18,239 --> 01:09:23,319
the bigots that promoted them. Those were the days. That's all.

1144
01:09:23,359 --> 01:09:25,640
Just hope Ashley sits in prison for the next fifty

1145
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:30,359
years doing nothing but looking fat, ugly and stupid. In

1146
01:09:30,399 --> 01:09:33,880
the meantime, Detective Adam Nicholson is writing a book on

1147
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:36,960
this murder, and who knows if he digs harder, he

1148
01:09:37,039 --> 01:09:40,279
might find even more bodies full of poison left in

1149
01:09:40,359 --> 01:09:44,520
Ashley's wake. There's already speculation that she may have killed

1150
01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:50,560
her ex husband as well. Yeah, he's dead. Detective Nicholson

1151
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:53,039
told swords Scale that this was one of the most

1152
01:09:53,079 --> 01:09:56,199
bizarre cases he'd ever been involved.

1153
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:59,560
Speaker 4: With, or that there wouldn't have even been There wouldn't

1154
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:02,000
have even been a murder case at all. We would

1155
01:10:02,039 --> 01:10:04,960
have never found out, like if it wouldn't have been

1156
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:09,119
for Ashley's greed, and if Ashley wouldn't have you know,

1157
01:10:09,319 --> 01:10:12,279
had to have set up this burglary at her mom's

1158
01:10:12,319 --> 01:10:17,239
house and Stephen getting caught. And so what led me

1159
01:10:17,279 --> 01:10:22,159
to Stephen was the burglary. It was Ashley's greed. Ashley

1160
01:10:22,239 --> 01:10:27,039
wanted this burglary to take place, and she trusted that Stephen.

1161
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:27,159
Speaker 2: Would do it.

1162
01:10:27,199 --> 01:10:31,560
Speaker 4: She had no idea her mom had installed a security system.

1163
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:38,119
And you know, Marcia would have never reported that the

1164
01:10:38,159 --> 01:10:41,359
burglary had she known that Stephen knew about the murder.

1165
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:44,680
If she knew that Stephen had been told by Ashley

1166
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:47,560
about the murder, There's no way that Marshall would have

1167
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:49,279
called in on Stephen and turned him in.

1168
01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:54,000
Speaker 1: Ashley's genius knew no bounds, the strong, independent woman that

1169
01:10:54,079 --> 01:10:59,439
she was her master plan from inside the prison higher

1170
01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:02,279
total strate to cross state lines and kill people for

1171
01:11:02,319 --> 01:11:08,119
her for free. Smart real smart. You know what else

1172
01:11:08,199 --> 01:11:13,279
is smart? Ordering your murder weapons off Amazon? You know

1173
01:11:13,319 --> 01:11:17,000
what else is smart? Telling you're flamboyant and loudmouth gay

1174
01:11:17,079 --> 01:11:21,000
friend that you and your mom murdered someone. You know

1175
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:26,600
what else is smart? Staging a fake robbery with that

1176
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:31,319
same friend who can't stop talking to steal from your

1177
01:11:31,319 --> 01:11:36,159
own mother and murder accomplice because you're a greedy, narcissistic,

1178
01:11:36,239 --> 01:11:40,319
and self centered piece of shit. How's that saying? Go again?

1179
01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:46,600
There is no honor amongst cold hearted cunts. I forget. Oh,

1180
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:50,039
and before some Karen out there sends me an angry

1181
01:11:50,119 --> 01:11:53,520
email lecturing me and calling me a sexist for using

1182
01:11:53,600 --> 01:11:57,920
that forbidden word, realize that words are meant to describe

1183
01:11:57,920 --> 01:12:01,000
the universe we perceive around us, so we can effectively

1184
01:12:01,039 --> 01:12:06,359
communicate even the four letter ones. And I can't think

1185
01:12:06,399 --> 01:12:11,399
of a better word to describe Ashley. She's what that

1186
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:26,239
word was made for. I hope you like that. And

1187
01:12:26,319 --> 01:12:29,760
by the way. Last week we put up a video

1188
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:32,319
explaining how I fucked up all the pricing for Sword

1189
01:12:32,319 --> 01:12:36,600
and Scale television. Well, YouTube demonetized us. So there's only

1190
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:38,560
one place on Earth you can find Sword and Scale

1191
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:42,079
Television now, and that's Swordinscale dot Com or our app

1192
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:46,479
and we lowered pricing to ten dollars to get access

1193
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:50,319
to it, which means that you can now get the

1194
01:12:50,359 --> 01:12:53,720
audio only version of Sword and Scale the podcast on

1195
01:12:53,840 --> 01:13:04,600
Apple Podcasts for just eight bucks. How do you like them? Apples?

1196
01:13:00,199 --> 01:13:40,520
Speaker 4: Science, science, science Speak, sence sisic, science spe