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Speaker 3: All right? Welcome everybody.
Speaker 4: We have Posh Spice, my favorite of the Spice girls,
with us today, and he is based and he is
decked out in his traditional Hollywood costumes, I mean Halloween
costumes that they wear in Serbia, and we are going
to be what's up, Pasha?
Speaker 3: You doing?
Speaker 2: I'm doing very well, as you can see, as you said,
decked out surrounded by Serbian paraphernalia and all my instruments.
You can see my piano here. You can see my
other children there. They're my children. I'm not a dog
or cat mom or dad, my own instrument dad.
Speaker 3: That's all good.
Speaker 4: We love our serves around here, guys, if you would
hit like and share, we are about to get deep.
My boy Pash here has actually done some deep dives
on the Book of Abraham. As you guys know, we've
had a lot of Mormons call in, We've had a
lot of Mormon debates. We have not done a deep
dive on this topic, So why don't you before we
get started, and I'll have Posh's links below. I did
adam to the show description to the title, Posh tell
us first of all about how everybody thinks about the
Book of Mormon, They think about the Doctrine, Covenant, Pearl
of Price, etc. And I think this document is part
of one of those texts. Why is this, first of all,
such an important one and why do we need to
really talk about this one?
Speaker 2: Well, to give you a bit of background as to
why I even got onto this for those who don't know,
I've worked for the Crucible, have for room, mister Yana,
and I hope with like religious debate, research and prep.
So Andrew calls me up one day, well, Posh going
after the Mormons. So off I go, like a good soldier,
start researching, because lord know, someone has to pay me
to read the rubbishment. Obviously I started doing so, so
that's some quality engineering right there. Right. So you know
I knew enough about Mormonism to reject it, but if
someone asked me to debate, I'd refuse to debate it. You,
So off I went researching. As you said, there are
three collections shall we call them our Mormon scriptures, the
Book of Mormon itself and all of its constituent books,
the Doctrines and Covenants, which is considered scripture for them,
and the Pearl of Great Price. As you said, the
Book of Abraham is part of one of them. That
would be the pearl great Price. Now, what's so important
about this is that he made quite a few very
remarkable statements and so many many errors that can be
very easily debunked. That is the significance of it. Also
theologically significant because that's where you get the pre existence
of the souls. That's the only place in their scriptures
that I'm aware of that colob is mentioned, for example.
So it is a very important text, and there are
very fundamental doctrines that are based on it. So I
you know, that's one of the things I started researching.
I read the other ones as well, obviously, but nothing
compares to how this book, which is about things, compared.
Speaker 3: Compared to colab.
Speaker 2: You have no idea how sad it is to throw
like pop references at me.
Speaker 3: If you've never heard the Prince song. But wait a minute,
you've heard the surely the Sinead O'Connor version of it. NA,
I think compers, do you nope?
Speaker 2: What this is? This is a conversation I've had many
many times.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, it's just one of the most famous.
You know, she was an Irish I know who she was,
and that was her book hit was covering the Prince song.
Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough, but so I know two prince songs,
you Purple Rain and When Doves Cry. So I'm not
completely as I said, it's it's a sad thing to
talk pop culture.
Speaker 3: That's okay. I apologize for changing it and tell us
about the Lords of Colob.
Speaker 2: The laws of Colab I mentioned only here, as I said,
and as we will get to the book itself, I
split it into two portions as we talk about it.
So there's there are problems with the process itself. It's
procurement its translation.
Speaker 4: Could I can I mention something really quick before you
go into that. And that is just simply that, even
though we are joking, this is actually in Maconkey's Book
of Mormon Doctrines, there is an entry, an entire entry
on Colob just to let you know.
Speaker 3: Here it is right here, and it says I'll read
it very quickly.
Speaker 4: Colob is the first creation. It is the name of
the planet nearest to the celestial residence of God. So
God has a body and he lives on a planet
near Colob. It is the first in the Space Government's hierarchy.
Speaker 3: Of space governance and pertaining pertaining to measurement, one day
in Colob equals one thousand years of Earth time.
Speaker 2: Yes, and that's in the book that is specifically mentioned.
But as I said, there are so many things happening here,
and so I would split it into the problems of
the process of procurement and translation. And if we grant
all of that, like, okay, there's a way to explain it,
which there isn't. But if we did grant it, then
there's the problem with the content itself. So, as someone
who spends most of his nerd stats, you know, you know,
going into linguistics in history, like things just kept jumping
out at me that were very basic mistakes but very easily,
very easily understood to be made by someone in the
early nineteenth century, especially like because it was barely discovered,
like the Rosetta stem being unlocked, and the ability to
translate hieroglyphics was still debated, right, So no one was
around to correct any of this, so you can see
how it got its momentum. We like to think, oh, well,
in you know Trompolier, like in nineteen eighteen twenty four,
I believe it was unlocked the Rosetta stone, the key
to translating hieroglyphics centers. Well, so now everyone from that
year onwards, can you know, go and decipher hieroglyphics. No,
there was plenty of debate. There were decades of disputations
about whether it's reliable, sufficiently reliable, how much can it imply?
So it was still very much in higher academia at
this point, so no one was there to correct our body,
our pal, our friend Joseph Smith, but he also makes
some very cardinal errors. We will go to the link
I emailed you.
Speaker 3: Yes, I've got the link pulled up below you.
Speaker 4: One question before we get into it, though, could you
summarize briefly if you're able.
Speaker 3: So they have these three major texts.
Speaker 4: They've got book Amormon Doctrine, Covenant Prolar Price and this
one is part.
Speaker 3: Of which one of Great Price. Okay, what are the what?
Speaker 4: What are these three books mainly focused on? If you
are able to summarize. If not, we can move on
to the right.
Speaker 2: I can. So basically, the Book of Mormon itself are
the translated plates that we get from Nephi and all
the other buddies. Right, that's so like, that's the proper
so to speak, Mormon Scripture, Doctrines and Covenants are collections
of predictions and statements that he made. They are classified enumerated.
The enumeration has changed over time, so it's not just
adding on. They've been reorganized and reshuffled, but are still
considered holy scriptures because of the prophecies of Smith. And
then the Pearl of Great Price is sort of how
I would summarize it is. So what's left of it
is put into one book. There there's his translation of
Matthew a compliment, which is a chapter, you know. Then
also some predictions are there the Book of Abra and
obviously so it's sort of the left overs that are
neither belonging to the corpus of the Book of Mormon
nor just a part of the Doctrines and Covenant. So
that's a very basic summary of it. We can see
some through lines. By the way, Now this is a
stylistic critique, which is a very difficult critique to make
if you're very good faith. We hear a lot of
those about the Pouline epistles, for example. You know, they said, well,
look how differently he writes or speaks in these in
these different epistles. And no one apparently knows what an
amanuensis is, because we have Saint Paul writing with his
own hands and he mentions it because his eyesight wasn't
very good, so when he wrote himself, he wrote in
very large letters. But if you have an amanuensis, you know,
an amanuensis will influence the style because they are trained
in proper grammar as they would see it. But as
far as Smith is concerned, what I found hilarious reading
through the Book of Mormons. You have these like King
jame Z phrases that appear, and not only do they appear,
they appear aggressively. So you have so so many verses
that start with and it came to pass that, and
it came to pass that I've counted as far as
five verses in a row starting with that. But that
is stylistically the problem because obviously that's not how people
would speak like regular people would speak. Back in the day.
But he knew what churchy King James e English would
sound like, so he's trying to replicate them. But so
it's throughout his translations and works, right, And you can
see how pathetic it is, obviously, because when you don't
have sufficient knowledge of it, which the people who translated
the King James Bible did right. They were fancy schmancy
Englishmen right in the sixteenth century, so they didn't need
to pretend to speak like that. That's how they were
educated to talk. But we see this nonsense throughout this
area even onto, and you know, all sorts of phraseology.
There are solistic anachronisms that we also find. We will
get to some in the Book of Abraham later on,
but obviously the entire works that are translated just oose
with disingenuous nonsense and pretending to be like the Bible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm looking under McConkie's entry. I thought this
was a fascinating giveaway. He says, well, the prolgrade price
is the things that were lost in the pentatug.
Speaker 4: Now get this, watch this bait and switch. He actually
says that you're gonna love this. So when Conky says.
Speaker 3: Contrary to higher critics, Moses actually did write the pentatog
the first five books of Moses, but the present form
that we have does not contain these secret teachings that
were originally there that Joseph Smith has restored. So this
is the great admission once again that he's trying to
avoid higher criticism. But then he's turning around and being
a higher critic by saying that the texts are corrupted
and really what's missing is this secret Book of Abraham.
Speaker 2: He's actually worse than a higher critic. Jimbob. Jimbob has
made a huge part of his exchange with Mormons, like
Joseph Smith adding himself to Genesis because we have and
I originally thought it was just at the end of Genesis,
you know, adding that prediction about his you know name
being Joseph. Turns out, no, he interpolated a lot of
other things. But so while reading through there, through the
Book of Mormon itself, which is purportedly written most of
it at least like in six hundred BC, it predicts
that there will be like these apostles right in like
six hundred years or so, and they will keep everything pure.
But then the Great abominable Church will corrupt things. Account.
I didn't write down the exact verse where it says
that the Gentiles received purely from the Jews, right, so
we get everything.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is an important point because if you go
to the Church to Jews Christ Latter day Saints website,
one of the first things that will come up when
you look over at their scriptures is I think it's
the introduction to the Book of Mormon, but it starts
with the Great Apostasy that the Church died. And that's
of course, the whole ethos of Mormonism is the restoration.
Speaker 2: Yes, obviously so, but one part of that is and
you could hear about this in Jimbob's latest debate with
a Mormon, because we discussed this prior to the debate,
and we talk like, listen, if we received purely from
the Jews, then we can have a timeline of when
we would have these corruptions, right, So it would be
after the death of the Apostles. That's in first and
thirteen if I'm not mistaken. But so let's say, obviously,
whether John is dead or not is for them a question.
But even if we just grant them like the first century,
so from the second century onward, we can expect copies
of Genesis that lack these interpolations, restorations from their world view.
The problem is we have the Dead Sea Scrolls from
the Command Community the scenes, and Genesis is the most
copied book in that collection, and they date from the
third century BC to the first century. So because the
Sens are scattered at the destruction of Jerusalem in seventy
they went in Jerusalem, but that whole campaign sort of
destroys their semi nomadic existence. But the again, we have
these preserved until nineteen forty seven, they weren't touched. So
from the third century BC to the mid twentieth century,
no one touches them, and their genesis is in accordance
with ours. It lacks these interpolations. So either the Book
of Mormon is wrong and it's not the Gentiles that
have corrupted it, but the Jews as well prior to
the Gentiles, so Mormonism is wrong, or it's the Genesis
has been their genesis is tampered with. Therefore it's wrong
because you're messing with scripture. So it's a catch twenty two.
There's no way to get out of it.
Speaker 4: Now, One little interesting side note in Father Digandcaronias is
put into the chat this link that I was looking
at here from one University, Young University. Apparently, now the
Mormons are trying to revise their position on the Great
Apostasy and alter and update that. But that's nothing surprising,
because everybody has to keep in mind Mormonism is actually charismatic.
They believe in ongoing new public revelations, so they can
revise and rewrite their mistakes like any of the other
cults to do conveniently, because well, the rating apostles and
prophets get new revelations that make it all work together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they don't. They're saying, yeah, yeah, but you
see there's also a big problem, you see have They're
own nice and they will want to work together and stuff.
But specifically, what they believe is that there are two churches,
the Church of the Lamb of God and the Church
of the Devil, the great abominable Church with its priest
craft and funnily enough, the that's not Nephi. I have
this Moroni eight nine calls infant baptism an abomination, which
is an interesting you know time because not even the
original reformers were against infant baptism. John Calvin was pretty
insistent on it, right, So it's strange that we find
this controversy that didn't exist until later on in the
in the Reformation, in certain circles of it at least.
So again, one might view that as our nineteenth century Charlatan,
you know, giving credence to himself or his teaching by
by creating a fake sixth century BC document that just
happens to align with him. But yeah, obviously, like a
lot of these movements, they mostly view the Catholic tressures
its greatest evil in the world. So that's nothing new.
But again you can see how it is anachronistic with
these problems. I have lots of things. One of my
favorite is that it calls the Virgin Mary exceedingly fair
and white.
Speaker 4: Well, let me add that to be eager on what
the classic Mormon doctrine is. In Maconkey's Mormon Doctrine Book,
there is an entry on the Great Apostasy.
Speaker 3: It's just under the Apostasy here, and it says, after
the time of Our Lord, the loss of the Gospel
occurred and the nations went into darkness and a moral decline.
This dark Ages was an apostasy that was universal darkness
covered the earth, and then its cites Doctrine and Covenant
one hundred and twelve twenty three. This darkness still prevails
except amongst those to whom the Gospel has been restored
through Mormonism.
Speaker 2: Right, And there are lots of things that are very strange.
For example, I tried testing out some arguments on Twitter,
and I keep asking them a bit because one of
their claims is, well, you trust you trust Paul, but
you don't trust Joseph Smith. Right, that's one of the approaches.
Because is Paul specifically prophesied in the Old Testament? Okay, no,
not by a name, but guess who is prophesied a
lot the guy who chose Paul to be, to be
his emissary, his apostle to the gentiles. And also what
a lot of because you know how much Heretics and
Muslims and all sorts of people go for Saint Paul. Recently,
Andrew debated that liberal Catholic Fugal sang or whatever however
you pronounce his surname like, he basically says the plastic
thing that Paul corrupted Christianity. He was Jesus's conservative pr guy,
and he destroyed Jesus's progressive, pro LGBT, pro abortion, pro
feminist message, right, because they don't seem to realize, first
of all, that Saint Paul was dead by the time
the Gospels were written down, right. We tend to forget
it because he said, no, he went up and he
started his church, you know, like, no, he was dead
by the time mcgobald's written down. He he didn't go
for an upgrade from being a respected a pharisee into
being beaten and stoned and healed poorly and having all
sorts of problems. He didn't go for some material upgrade.
He did quite the opposite, actually, But you know how
common it is to attribute all evil. He's like a Zazel,
attribute all evil to Paul.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, a lot of more men's, a lot of Muslims,
a lot of the you know, weird cults, higher critics too,
they all kind of lashed onto that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the thing is they forget that Saint Paul
was introduced to the apostles behind and not satan Io's right,
but they stay with him, like saying, Luke goes with him,
and you know, records like his sermons and stuff. So
the apostles who did meet Jesus, obviously we're like, yeah,
this guy is solid, even though he was like the
most obvious fed you know in the beginning.
Speaker 3: Right. So, but what they forget to one other point,
just a little side note. As I think about this.
Speaker 4: This idea that prophets are prophesied, ah, as I think
about this in Scripture, I mean, you have the statement
in Deuteronomy, which we think is a prediction of Christ,
that I will raise up one of your brethren, you know,
hear him, you shall hear. I mean, in that sense,
Christ is a prophet who is prophesied. But none of
the other prophets are explicitly prophesied. You know, there's no
prophecy that Ezekiel shall be born that I'm aware of.
I mean, you have some statements like in Ezekiel where
it talks about, you know, a virgin will give birth
and conceive and so forth, but you.
Speaker 2: Get through whom no one else will enter.
Speaker 3: Well, we don't.
Speaker 4: Typically have a prediction of prophets. It's a prediction of
the Messiah, who is the ulter prophet.
Speaker 2: Right. But what I was asking then is why would
we expect someone like justice. It's like, give me something, right,
because from what I'm hearing in the Old and the
New Testament, there's a pretty important guy coming up and
he will put things in order. And as far as
we are concerned, that's the Lord incarnating and establishing the church,
and you know, his incarnation, life and death and resurrection
are all very very important for us Orthodox Christians. We
don't get and that there's a blackout and then there's
some guy who comes over near the end and fixes things.
Nothing of the sort. So I think I got Revelations
fourteen eight, like an angel comes spreads the Gospel throughout
the world, like okay, and then there are other angels
mentioned after that, right, So I don't see how we
get from that too. Well, you're all wrong and have
been wrong for what more than eighteen hundred years before
this guy showed up and fixed everything. So we have
no reason to expect anyone like Joseph Smith. Right. All
is there because he is in full continuity with what
was being preached, like he is instrumental, and he's chosen
for his massive knowledge of all sorts of things and
his stewardship under GLAMMEO. So you know, we have reasons
to trust. I have no reason to expect someone to
come in in eighteen hundred years later and just improvably
wing it as far as how things go. So we
are talking about Momonism generally. Now, right, we can start
at the Book of Abraham. I have my notes here,
so to get our timeline before we.
Speaker 3: Do, there was a specific request, could you guys look
at Doctrine and Covenant one thirty two. I think that's
the one that has some pretty wild stuff in it.
Is that the one that talks about the nature of
God and Adam Adam, God is like Adam? I think?
Speaker 4: I mean, what is it to the person that's asking here,
maya gene, what is it about one thirty two that
you find interesting? And I'll pull it up here?
Speaker 3: But do you want to get to this?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 3: This is the supposed papyrus, right? Is that where we're going?
Now up?
Speaker 2: Posh, you don't have to open the link yet. That
those are specifically the fact similes he made of of
things in the papyrus. I will give a general introduction.
So did you say one thirty two the door?
Speaker 4: She says, Doctrine and Covenant one thirty two Mormons cannot
Mormons cannot handle this chapter.
Speaker 3: Can you give me a summary of what it is
that are the specific things in one thirty two and
I'll mention it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't give you a specific summary. I can
read the intro that says revelations.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, not you.
Speaker 4: I'm saying, like I'm asking her if she this is,
like you said, eternal covenant, marriage covenant.
Speaker 3: Oh, this is the polygamy chapter. Okay, that's why.
Speaker 2: Yeah. On the on the they have like records, we
have court records of their multiple marriages, which are provided
on the website. So they are so strange to me.
They are very mercurial. Nothing is stable, nothing is set
in stone, everything is both and and you know who
knows it is like you're too rigid, you're too autistic
about it, and it's just rubbish. So you feel free
to interrupt me if we get no.
Speaker 3: That's fine. We can add on over here to the
So it's doctor in Cabinet one thirty two, which is
the polygamy chapter. But if you want to get to
the papyrus and all this gibberish nonsense, here go ahead.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I'll give you a basic introduction of how
things went down, So he purchases through crowdfunding methods. He
purchases a bunch of papyrie and some mummies and stuff
in So in eighteen thirty five, A bear in mind
this is important. This is nine years before his death right,
so we're pretty well into his prophethood at this point.
So he has a following and everything established. And what
he claims is that he finds autographer so penned by
their own hand, as he would put it, works of
Abraham and Joseph, the patriarchs. This is important because it
will allow us to date things. So he goes on
to translate them, but only finished a portion of what
was to become the Book of Abraham before his death
in eighteen forty four. The book was canonized by the
LDS Church in eighteen eighty and as part of the
group of scriptures named the Pearl of Great Price. So
here's the important thing. Purchases them in eighteen thirty five,
translated and translates it through until death. Doesn't get very far.
As I said, the book is about a dozen pages long.
But it's very important that what's called what was supposed
to be the Book of Joseph never even got translated, right.
Even the Book of Abraham has been finished as far
as what was claimed to be there. But they can't
say this is some side project, this wasn't part of
the inspired work, because they're ongoing prophecy and profethood and
the presidency, like the Mormon Pope or whatever. Right, they
canonized the Pearl of Great Price in eighteen eighty, so
it's part of their scriptures. Don't let them maneuver around.
There are some LEDs groups which claim that they reject
the Pearl of Great Price, or at least the Book
of Abraham, And as we will see, there's a good
reason you would want to reject it. But considering how
they purport, how they pretend, the system works, no two
ways about it. So what happens is a bit of
a difficulty on our end to critique, because these papyriti
exchange hands over time, and they end up in Chicago,
and most of them are destroyed in the Great Chicago
Fire of eighteen seventy one. Not all, though, and the
ones which aren't destroyed end up in the met right,
the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York in nineteen
seventy four horribly from Mormons nineteen seventy four, it seems,
and they end up they inform the LDS Church of
this in nineteen sixty six and hand it over to
them in nineteen sixty seven. There are some more applications
that had to publish. How big of a problem this is.
But as you know, they're everything and nothing at the
same time. It's both the most important thing ever and
completely dismissable and whatever you want to do. So anything
you'd like to comment so far.
Speaker 3: Now go ahead. I'm listening. This is an area I
don't know a lot about.
Speaker 2: Okay, no problem. So the problem was that by this time,
so we're now well into the second half of the
twentieth century, and we have lots of Egyptologists, the methods
of translating and interpreting hieroglyphics is well established. Huge numbers
of fines which will be important for our facsimiles later,
have been discovered, Their meanings have been deciphered, that even
their functions, like we'll get to what a hypocephalus is,
which is like a burial pillar or something, so we
know how to translate what survived, So they can't just say, well,
it was all destroyed. All the relevant things were destroyed
in the fire. That's one of the cop outs, the
ones he actually had. They were destroyed in the fire.
What's left these miscellaneous other things. But that's where our
fac similes which are in the book themselves. Right, he
made fac similes. He drew, drew things as exact.
Speaker 3: Is I have that first image in the slide fac
simile one. Is that what he did there?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So I don't know. I think it doesn't exist
on the sight I sent you. But what when we
get to it, you will see he just drew in
a human head.
Speaker 3: Now that's the very first the first image on the
side that you sent, Is that the head he added?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's the superimposition of his facciine onto the
peace of the papyrus that had missed and right, so
he didn't literally draw on the papyrus. He edited it
in the fact simile. And what's very funny is that
this is a very common depiction of a humor funerary rite.
And believe it or not, it's very commonly known now
that there's one god that's very commonly associated with the afterlife,
and that's a Nubis. So originally in these depictions, you
would depict a Nubis, but because the head was missing,
he just drew in ahead a human head.
Speaker 3: So last you didn't draw Anubis, yep.
Speaker 2: But he didn't know that this was a common depiction.
It was like, like we have common depictions in the
Orthodox Church, like very common icons, like the most totally
Theodogus with baby Jesus. Like imagine if like an icon
was damaged, so there was Yeah.
Speaker 3: Somebody somebody drew in quato from total recall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, so this is a common image,
but it's understandable that Jesse Smith didn't know it. But
at the same time that's what ends up exposing his Charlotteton.
Speaker 4: Yes, a great point. So you can see here in
the images. The first image is where the original supposed
papyrus that he has is imposed over his drawing and
he's added a human head. But then you'll notice that
this common drawing actually had in Anubis head, which he
didn't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can see he's got black skin like he is.
That's how a Nubis is depicted, which re emerges as
a problem in the third fac simile as well, because
guess what he thinks black skin means a man from
a right. Slightly funnier than that, he thinks it's a slave,
because hey, there's these white ones and there's the black ones,
so obviously the black one is a slave. But it's
just again a nupis. But again you can see it's
early nineteenth century American, you know, trying to figure things out,
trying to create a story out of here.
Speaker 4: It's funny you said that because there's a very similar
accusation about Crowley as well, that when he was trying
to construct the Egyptology for his cult, because it was
prior to Rosetta Stone, he got all these things wrong,
and so it's not the Egyptian deity that he was,
you know, channeling and and speaking with, because he got
a lot of things wrong.
Speaker 2: That's understandable. But again, Charlatan's are Charlatans, and there's only
so many ways you can take it right. But he
relied on the ignorance of people around him. And we
will get to his mistakes in the content, which i
I think are worse than the mistakes in the process
because they go all the way down to well, it
doesn't have to mean that this was what was on
the papyary, because God could have used these papyri to
inspire him to write this translation, which then wouldn't be
a translation but this book. So God gave him the
real book through fake papyri. That's one of the curbs.
I don't know what to do with that. You know,
there are simply some arguments I here, I'm starting to
doubt you. People aren't allowed to do so let's go
through my notes further on the problem was they turned
out to be nothing but funerary or burial Egyptian texts
and had nothing to do with Abraham or Joseph. The
oldest ones could be dated to around three hundred BC,
destroying any notion that they were autographic, i e. Written
by Abraham or Joseph themselves. The text reported to be
from Joseph were never translated, but were discovered to be
portions of the Egyptian Book of the Dead. So, just
to be clear, even the Egyptian Book of the Dead,
I think that's the fifteenth century BC, so even that's
too late not to mention third century BC. And then
some Mormon women on Twitter started telling me, yeah, but
it's not Actually there's no Book of the Dead. There's
a Book of Breathing. Like first of all there too,
and they're like the same thing, but from about a
millennium later. Again, just throw something out, just find a
cop out. They will take it because they're all so nice. Right,
So that's the fruit of the spirit. Every debate. I
participated in one debate rather hilariously substituting for Andrew, and
it was Jimbob and myself against two Mormons. I just
lost is at one point. And I don't know what
to do with people who will accept anything and just say,
we'll look at the fruits of our church, like, look
at how nice we are, like the families, the number
of children, like, okay, that's great. By the way, I'm
not going to say that's a bad thing. But if
you're going to do that on the based on lies,
I'm not going to accept that that's from God, that
you can lie people into it. And by the way,
there are plenty of bad things done by the Mormon
Church and Mormons Mitt Romney, but again they never accept that,
as you know, proving that they are wrong, but the
fact that they are nice. But we don't have Mormons
in Serbia, I don't think so. At least I know
people chase Jehovah's witnesses with like shovels and stuff. I'm
not joking about that, by the way, not even slight.
Speaker 3: Well, some of the countries have banned these groups because
they're also used by the CIA openly. So the yes
as Mormons, et cetera, are part of you know, reconnaissance, spying, espionage,
soft power.
Speaker 2: That here is the idea that people think the literal
Satanists will eat their children. So yeah, chasing them with
shovels and axes and stuff, or threatening with guns. That's
all fun and games. That's properly some European religious debate. Okay,
So moving on, this shows that Smith was openly deceiving people,
pretending to translate these funerary texts into the so called
Book of Abraham and purely inventing the contents, including the
claims of multiple gods, the planet colon, and other such nonsense.
Were it legitimate, the book would have Predatedmoses and therefore
Genesis by centuries. Now this is important. They will claim
that Moses used the Book of Abraham in part as
inspiration for writing Genesis because there are overlapping claims like
Genesis one and I think two are somewhat exist in
some variation, right, So he obviously didn't just copy Genesis
one and two into it, but he like reworded certain things,
added these indications that there are multiple gods and that
everything is eternal. So it's not creation ex nihilo, et cetera,
et cetera. But the claim is that this is you know, proof,
because if this is from Abraham, it predates Moses, and
look at the similarities. Therefore, Moses must have used this
in his in his writing of Genesis.
Speaker 3: So do that what you will.
Speaker 2: Again, this is all very schizoid to me.
Speaker 3: Do you want to discuss the interpretation that he gives
to these images on this funerary papyrus versus versus? How
it's understood now.
Speaker 2: We're getting into that right now, So let me read
up my my notes on this. So some images found
on the papyri were incomplete, and Smith produced facsimiles that
direct copies of them by drawing things in. One important
example is a facsimile allegedly representing a pagan priest about
to sacrifice Abraham, with the Angel of God's presence there
to stop it. However, this turned out to be a
pretty common depiction of Anubis, whose iconic head is missing
from the papyrus. Joseph Smith had and drew in a
human head embalming someone whose name is Whore, and the
angel is a representation of Or's spirit. Other item items
on the image were also completely made up, such as
the four knopic jars, the ones. Okay, basically, just this
is a you can open up the the fac similes
and we'll read from there, rather than yeah there, okay,
I don't.
Speaker 3: See it, so you won't see it. It's on the livestream.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's I'll open it up on my end.
So are you showing like the enumerated one, yes, the
first fac simile, right, So if you go down there,
scroll down a bit, you will see side by side
comparison of what Jesse Smith claimed to be in the
picture versus what what Egyptologist can say very confidently is there.
So would you like to read some of these or
I mean I can.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure.
Speaker 4: So basically, Joseph Smith says that the number one the
bird there is the angel of the Lord from Genesis
and in modern egypt Egyptian interpretation from scholars, that is
the soul of the disease. The bar of the disease.
He says that this is Abraham fastened on the altar.
Number two modern egyptology says, no, this is the deceased
named Hoor.
Speaker 3: Number three.
Speaker 4: Is the idolatrous priest of Elkanah, and it is not
supposed to be a Nubis, as you can see here
in the originals. Yes, number four, it says the altar
sacrifice of these idolatrous priests. The gods are Elkanah, lib Na, Machmakrah, Khorash.
Speaker 3: And Pharaoh.
Speaker 4: Yes, this is a common funeral buyer or a lion couch,
So it's not a as you can see, it's not
an altar. It's a couch that's a lion.
Speaker 2: Now, they would put them on there and start dissecting,
and that's what Anubis is, you know, that's part of
his job.
Speaker 4: He makes up you gods Libnam, Macmacra Kharash. They are
actually the jars containing the organs of the deceased, and
they're the the sons of Horace named Kebbe, Sanuf, Duamotef
Happy and m Setie.
Speaker 2: The idology, huh, I'm saying, well, don that's that's a
very good pronunciation.
Speaker 4: Nine the idolatrous god of Pharaoh, which is the it
looks like an alligator.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very hot to see anything, but yeah, that's yeah.
Speaker 3: Modern egyptology says that's horace.
Speaker 4: Number ten. This is supposed to be Abraham in Egypt. Uh,
which I guess is the whole the whole.
Speaker 3: Image, right, so he he, I don't understand what's Abraham
in Egypt there?
Speaker 2: I think it's a piece of writing there, he says,
says Abraham.
Speaker 4: Oh, I see, so the writing is supposed to say
Abraham in Egypt. But actually that is a libation table
that bears wine, oil and offerings common in Egypt. Okay,
I see it's a little table.
Speaker 3: I see.
Speaker 4: Number eleven This is design to represent the pillars of Heaven,
so the Egyptians understood it, according to Joseph Smith. But
rather it is actually a palace facade called a serek,
which is the pillars that you see at the bottom
is supposed to represent the palace.
Speaker 3: It's not a it's not the pillars of heaven. And
then twelve is.
Speaker 4: The waters were there crocodile is swimming? It says, this
is just water that a crocodile swims in.
Speaker 3: But Joseph Smith thought it was the firmament.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so you can see. I think this is
a very common depiction, which is why we are so
confident in our understanding of it. It's not something isolated
and he just makes everything up so we will get
to contest. But this el kanar, libna, marmakra, korache and
it's just rubbish. I went to some Mormon side that
attempts to explain it. So, oh, well, you know, there
was like a like a like a hill near this place,
and if you read it upside down or something, so
you know, put it through like ten lenses and you
get something sort of similar to marmakra and then you
can back. But no, there isn't. Not to mention the
fact that Egyptians didn't practice human sacrifice, that's not well
out of their religion.
Speaker 4: There are some instances of that at certain stages, but
normally they did not. There are some there is common, yes, common,
But I do have a book a scholar that argues
that that's a misconception that it did happen, but it
wasn't common.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's that's fair enough. Obviously, have mystery schools. I
think you have basically invented those more or less. But
it's not a normal part of Egyptian religious practices, and
they are pretty decently documented. That pantheon is pretty decently documented,
so we would be aware of these gods, you know
what they would be called. Maybe maybe you know Elkanah
is another name for Isis or something, right, But again, nothing,
we just have nothing. He does, like you watch a
lot of films, makes up a lot of names, yeah,
but but they are not connected. We'll get to one
name later on and I will nerd out a bit linguistically,
but he does basically the thing. You know how in
every film, like aliens.
Speaker 3: Have to have a z an X and a Y
and then they have a lot of these for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so because that's all alieny and stuff, they're like
ziclax and you know, stuff like that. So he's doing
the apparently the nineteenth century version of that, I mean,
Mama Crofts silence like something exactly like in at least
like like a fantasy opic gene or something maybe not
sci fi per se. Right, So we can go through
the other two.
Speaker 3: If you like. Well, the next image is showing the
other common depictions with a NuBus doing the same basic
funeral rite. So it's not a human sacrifice ritual. It's
a burial passage to the underworld ritual.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And this circle, as you see, this is what
we call a hypercephalus, which people meaning under and carefulos
meaning noggin.
Speaker 3: So are you talking about his magic schedule here? This
big circle?
Speaker 2: It's not his, that's an Egyptian practice.
Speaker 3: The circle is the vaccimily two.
Speaker 2: Yes, So they're these circular things that can be made
of papyrus all the way up to gold if you're
rich enough. But that's going to be. Hypercephalus means like,
as I said, under your noggin, right if your head.
So it's like a pillow, and it's a type of
it is type of situl matric. But it's like an
amulet that's supposed to help you navigate the afterlife.
Speaker 3: Oh, I gotcha.
Speaker 2: So again this is a very common thing. It's not
some some far off thing that no one has ever seen.
We have lots of these, right, would you like to
go read through them again or should.
Speaker 3: We just write? So the list has here. Joseph Smith
says that.
Speaker 4: It's really hard to see, so I'm just going to
kind of summarize, and I'll put the link in the
chat if you guys want to see the details of this.
Speaker 3: It's a little too much to try to expect.
Speaker 2: Okay, I can read it. I have the site open
so I have access to it. Just scroll through it
on the video so people see what we see. So
Jesster smith interpretation of one. Number one, which is at
the death center of this says, this is Colob, the
residence of God. But this is actually the god Nun
according to Egyptologists. Number two. Let's see what number two is.
This little picture above the center, so it stands next
to Colob, called by the Egyptians all blish Oliblish. But
this is Amon Ray, God with two faces representing the
rising in the setting sun. So Ray, this is amon Ra.
You've probably heard that pronunciation, although people have switched to
the proper pronunciation being Rah, and now people call him Ray.
A moon is still a moon. So number three is
to the right of number two and says God sitting
on his throne clothed with power and authority. And this
is Horace Ray riding in his boat. So this is
this combination of Horrce and Ray. Number four, this was
somewhere off. I don't know who, well, just Smith number that.
That's why it doesn't make any sense. So even I
can't see where number four is.
Speaker 4: It's fine, like people can go look at this, and
he's kind of work through like some of the high points,
because there's a lot of these. It goes all the
way down to like twenty three. So basically it's another
situation where he just sort of renames everything that we
now know in modern Egyptology has nothing to do with
the gibbers that Joseph Smith came out with.
Speaker 2: And if you notice, you will see a lot of
things are empty on the left side, like twelve through sixteen,
eighteen through twenty one, and twenty three, twenty two to
three just says, you know, no annotation given, but you
will see a lot of things that he didn't translate,
so Egyptologists modern Egyptologists can translate. But he just writes
this one little thing to encompass all of them, so
he misses out on a lot of these small inscriptions,
so he doesn't make up everything for everything. Some he
just sort of skips over, which you think it would
be important if we got something from Abraham. You wouldn't
just half asked, not if you're Joseph Smith apparently, So, yeah,
you have all sorts of things that are just he
makes up names all the time, including like the four deities.
But what you will see is all sorts of very
common deities of Egypt being represented. And we have number seven,
for example, the god nin and if it palic god,
that is a sexually aroused male deity. And I don't
think the you know, the patriarch Abraham was into into
drawing pagan deities with you know, their dogs at attention.
But yeah, so this is in the final facsimile you
can see. That's at the very end of the translation
of the Book of Abraham. This one is much smaller,
so I can read through these. So we see one
this is this seated figure on the throne, and Joseph
Smith wrote that this was Abraham sitting on Pharaoh's throne
by the politeness of the king, which a crown upon
his head, representing the priesthood as emblematic of the grand
presidency in heaven, because that's you know, they're all presidents
with the scepter of justice and judgment in his hand.
But this is Osiris writing about the figure recitations by
A Ciris foremost of the Western as the ataf crown
also identifies him as Osyrus. So you know, if you
have ever seen a depiction of O Cyrus, he always
has the attaph. He always has that very distinctive crown
on his head. Number two, which is this pharaoh, this pharaoh,
this figure to the very legs, says king Pharaoh, whose
name is given in the characters above his head. This
figure is a female lot writing above the figure Ice
is the great, the God's mother. So he misgendered worse
of all, what of all the things he did with
his deceptions and and all sorts of nonsense with women,
he misgenders deities. That's that's horrible. Number three, I.
Speaker 3: Mean, this is obviously a woman. It's kind of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you think so. But I don't know if we're
going to spend any time trying to make sense of
Joseph Smith, will we will. We will be here for
quite a while and probably go mad in the process.
But so the three is this little like piece of
furniture in front of a Cyrus to his right. If
we're looking at the picture, so signifies Abraham in Egypt
as a given Also in ten affeximbly. Number one. That's
but this is again a libation table with wines, and
you know a common thing you would have in Egypt.
Number four is the Prince of Pharaoh, king of Egypt,
has written above of his head.
Speaker 4: Ohbs crash, So let me bring posh spiceberker. Okay, I
don't know what happened, ohbs crashed.
Speaker 2: Go ahead, Okay, back, I don't know if I don't
know if I continued or you.
Speaker 3: So we were at I think we were at the
number four another woman.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the misgendering, the second misgenderin crashed is right.
So this is the my art, and I wanted to
say my art is very important. She's also one of
the better known gods because of we have all sorts
of writings about my art and justice. This is in
fact also I think etymologically very tied into the word
justice in Hebrew. Because Hebrew is a what we call
on Afro Semitic language. A lot of words come from Egyptian,
especially like seraph means serpent, right, and they're the throne
guardian serpents. If you look at a throne of a pharaoh,
or like his headgear, it's all serpentine because it's invoking
these serpentine guardian throne guardian spirits. So we have schu
len In number five, one of the kings principal waiters,
as represented by the characters above his hand. So this
is this fifth person. This is a deceased individual wearing
the traditional cone of perfumed Greece and lotus flowers flower
on his head. Writing above the figure the Osiris whaw
justified forever. And number six what I mentioned is all
in law a slave belonging to the prince, says, not
a slave. This is as guide of the dead who
is there to support the disease.
Speaker 3: So he thought that because the character was black, that
it was a slave, but it's actually just a newbis.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now again, you might be inclined to think that
this is the case because he is in early nineteenth
century America, so he would associate black skin with being
a slave. But no, apparently God just inspired him to
read this wrongly and name this figure a slave for
pretty normal contemporaneous reasoning.
Speaker 3: Man, it's just so odd that anyone would believe this.
But hopefully you guys, I mean, everything's fine, right, Everything's
back to normal. You can hear us? Good? All right,
go ahead, Pasha, you're up.
Speaker 2: Okay. So that's our facts similies that ended up in
the book right again, obvious mistakes from our perspective, from
his perspective. Who's going to actually read this? Probably was
the thinking. But yeah, so I have some notes here
like this alone proves Joseph Smith to be a fraud.
These documents were acquired in eighteen thirty five. It was
only in eighteen twenty two that the French orientalist Jean
Francois Champollon created the key to interpreting hieroglyphics et cetera,
et cetera. So now that we have these things unlocked,
we're pretty good on being able to interpret what's left
of the papyri. But this will conclude our first half
of the critique, and that is the critique of the process.
Speaker 3: I want to remind everybody that you can support the
stream via superchats.
Speaker 4: Super jests are done through stream labs or through YouTube natively.
I will split the super chats with POSH. So if
you'd like to support the work and the research, it's
not free, please do so by your generous super chats
through stream labs and I will read them here in
a moment. We got a couple before we get to
this next part. Here, an Athanacious says for seven, thank
you so much for defending orthodoxy and debunking heterodox clowns.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Athanasia. Appreciate that DC woodworking.
Speaker 2: Posh.
Speaker 3: Where have you been.
Speaker 2: I've been working for the Crucible, and I want to
do more streams on geopolitics. But I always give it
like five to six days, and there has not been
five to six days without a monumental, well changing event
in the last two years. I think, so. I never
it always would result in a hot take, and by
the time I process things, you know that now there's
an event.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's like things are happening to fairst.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like a site on the news cycle is measured
in minutes. I think I Other than that, I do
plan a big stream on dispensationalism, but because I've really
gathered a lot of things to try and create a package,
like I can't do what you do, which is a
lot of research on like the background figures and everyone involved.
That's a skill set I have not acquired, and I'm
just happy to crib your but I but you know,
I always go on Twitter just to throw out Recently
I've started asking everyone, you know what maybe I shouldn't
talk about. I don't know how comfortable you are with
the topic itself being on YouTube, But as just say,
I've been testing out some arguments because no one apparently
knows what's the difference between pagan sacrifices and biblical sacrifices.
Why in Isaiah eight one I mentioned always one eighteen
because it used the word judge, like judge the fatherless,
And I keep trying to say, do you think that
means they're going, look at us fatherless guy over there. No,
that's not what judge means. And that's not what judge
judge not less you be judged means. But the first
chapter of Isaiah, God keeps saying I'm full of your sacrifices.
But he says, stop them, like if they're an abomination
to me, if your heart's not in it. Right in
the pagan world, if your God is unhappy, you ramp
up the sacrifices in quantity and quality, right. But God,
the God of the Bible, he doesn't care about it.
Like you mentioned fifty one. He says, you know, a
humble and contrite heart is what God wants, and you
know in the Old Testament, sacrifices a part of it.
But all of this is I'll just go ranting on
for an hour if you just let me say.
Speaker 3: All right, no one says far If you'd like a
good cross examination of Mormon history, the channel Dan Votel
on YouTube as many good dget videos.
Speaker 4: I mentioned this content to Jim Bob no One. Dan
Vogel has books on the Book of Abraham as well.
Counterdocks five dollars. They're revising all of their history because
new Mormon apologists want to reinterpret the Church fathers as
now Mormons, and this is a new form of Mormon apologetics.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean this is a standard deception. I mean
so dom that really it only dupes other dumb people. So,
Schim Ebert ten dollars. Do you think the Left Behind
series was a psyop? Well, I mean to a degree
in that it was promoted by the establishment. And you
know Tim Lahay, you know, is a participant in this,
you know, evangelical zioe worship phenomenon. To what degree he
was personally given money to push this, It's hard to say.
I don't know.
Speaker 4: That, but I would not be surprised allegedly, that's my opinion.
And Schimabhert says, so many of us grew up where
Protestant Bible studies use this as a book to justify
their belief you exactly, I grew up with the same stuff.
They also have a lens for is of Jesus to
read into the text of Revelation. Absolutely, that's what we
covered earlier today. Over Lord ten dollars. I'm an ex Mormon.
In the morning leadership tells the members not to look
at any information outside of that church, and because that
of that, it is a cult.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: I've had many debates discussions with you know, Mormon missionaries
walking around and my first encounter with Mormon missionaries twenty
years ago.
Speaker 2: I or more.
Speaker 4: I remember saying, I'll watch you guys's Mormon propaganda video
if you guys will come over and watch a Mormon
critique video with me. And they had to ask their
higher ups, and the higher ups told them no, they
couldn't watch them.
Speaker 2: Not worth it. Well, you know, as I said, I
participated in one of these debates just by substituting for Andrew.
But I've also talked to a lot of about this
with Jimbob because he had he's had multiple and it's
so fun. The first debate was Andrew against some guy
who's really a nice guy. I think he's some type
of chaplain. Obviously in America you can't have a single
faith chaplain, but whatever the case, like really a decent guy.
And I said to Andrew prior to the debate, listen
what he will do. He will expect you to either
watch the cartoon that you and Jimbob reviewed at least once,
if not multiple times. Or secondly, he'll expect like you
watched the episode of South Park the dumb dum dum
dum dun So. Yeah, and I brought him all of
these arguments that were completely from their own scriptures and
he was just left their bewildered. But they're so unprepared.
They just expect you to talk about them magic and
maybe mentioned colab and how you know the Native Americans
are cursed for a dollar. Try they used to be
white quite if you will. So they expect these very
they're low hanging fruit, like they are still correct, but
they want to say that this is just low hanging fruit,
and you don't actually read it and et cetera, et cetera.
But but it's very very poor apologetics on there, and
it's mostly just well, you know, I believe the Spirit
speaks to me, and that's what they told Jimbob last
time and the time before that, and the time Jimbob
and I were debating, so you know, it's it's it's nuts.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so the next couple of react, We've got
No One two dollars. No, he did that? Excuse me,
Lori Costello ten dollars. I hope these people will leave
all this Mormon stuff.
Speaker 4: Well, Mormons are making a massive propaganda push everywhere, especially
on the Internet, in the last couple of years. So hopefully, yeah,
we can, with God's grace, you know, help people leave
this this nonsense.
Speaker 3: JB.
Speaker 4: Peltier, This Paul guy freaking rules the apostles moral artist.
Speaker 3: Five dollars. What is the etymology of the word Mormon?
Good question. What does the actual word refer to?
Speaker 2: But now you've got me stumped. So there is I
believe an angel?
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, we know about my own eye. But yeah, Ormond,
let's see what we get.
Speaker 2: So it derives from the Book of Movement.
Speaker 3: Nice job, Uh, it's probably within the book. Maybe is
there something within the book?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's called the Book of Mormon, so so right,
and there there's constituent books you'll nephies and et cetera.
But I think it's just like a self contained word.
There's no etymology.
Speaker 3: Uhre's here's a Mormon website claiming that the word means
more good.
Speaker 2: Is mon short for money.
Speaker 3: I'm not kidding that this is this is what this
Mormon website church news.
Speaker 2: I've seen enough Mormon etymology. That's why I gave up
at some point. There's he keeps ending aya to like names,
so a right, depending on the word like Isaiah and
Jeremiah pronounced differently in English, but it's the same ending.
So she has like mosaica, et cetera.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it's like you know what gibberish more good
or yeah, LORI, let's you know you did that randall
five dollars randal seven. How can I have a thoughtful
conversation with the LDS missionaries if they don't know that
the king fall At discourse teaches that God was once
a man. I mean, if they're not willing to go
look it up, then you're not going to be able
to say anything to them.
Speaker 3: I mean, if a person's mind is closed, they're not
going to care.
Speaker 4: So you know, if you can, I think detect pretty easily.
If somebody is open to questioning things, and people that
are not open open to questioning, you might as well
just move on.
Speaker 2: Yes, as Orthodox, we should be very much aware like
our idea of theosis. More consequently, we have the idea
of demonosis. As father Stephen de Young, I'm still pushing
that term because it's a pretty good term. You either
synered eyes with God or with demons, and that transforms you.
But at the same time, if you have a family life,
that will transform you. And these people are usually very
deep in these groups, and I seriously doubt every moment
you know, once they close the door and go from
a happy pace to start beating their children, you know,
with a stick. Right. So if you're very deep into
a community and you're a very small minority, obviously maybe
in until you have majorities and stuff, but nationwide you're
very you know, self enclosed and self sufficient, so you
don't want to leave. So you're emotionally and spiritually connected
to this. So you have to understand it's not just
that people are stupid, because this is just what we've
covered so far, is so full of nonsense, very easily
provable nonsense, and they will keep making things up. And
I think it's like a battered wife syndrome or something.
Speaker 4: All right, let's move on to the next section there.
For those that are curious, you can follow Pash right
here on X at the parsh redneck.
Speaker 2: Thank you, So I will read the header for the
Book of Abraham in the Pearl Grade Price says a
translation of some ancient records that have fallen into our
hands from the catacombs of Egypt, purporting to be the
writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt. Call the
Book of Abraham written by his own hand upompapyrus. Now,
maybe this doesn't jump out at people immediately, but what
do you think is already a mistake? Here?
Speaker 3: Say it again.
Speaker 2: So this may not jump out to people as it
did to me, But do you already notice a mistake
of having a Book of Abraham while Abraham was in Egypt?
Speaker 3: I'm sure it's something obvious. What is it?
Speaker 2: He doesn't get the name Abraham until after he leaves.
Speaker 3: Oh, Abram versus Abraham.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so he would have been Abraham at this
point in Genesis twelve when they're and I think it's
in Genesis seventeen Versus five and fifteen where Abram becomes
Abraham and Sarai becomes Sarah. He goes from the Great
Father to the Father of nations. She goes from my
princess to princess. Right. Now, here's the thing. Sarah is
mentioned in the Book of Abram, but she is SARAHI
in the Book of Abraham. So I don't know what
to do with that fact, because the point where Abraham
is Abraham but Sarah is Sarai is just between the
verses in between Genesis five and Genesis.
Speaker 3: Yeah. But obviously the sun gets its light from colobs all.
None of this matters.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm so confused, like either they should both
be with their own names or the new names. But
Abraham gets his new name anachronistically, but Sarah Sarah Sarai keeps.
Speaker 3: Those are texts are all corrupted.
Speaker 4: So you can just do the Muslim thing where you say, well, here,
since it's a problem with my system, then the Bible's
corrupted and everywhere else that backs up my system.
Speaker 3: The Bible's true and good, and I use it as
a source world wide. Eighteen seventy three five dollars, Jay,
I only have a Greek church near me? Is that okay?
Speaker 4: Should we be worried about this some new to orthodoxy? No,
you don't have to worry about that until there's an
actual excommunication. Yeah, yeah, Rip says for two dollars, here's
two dollars. It's the GDP of all Serbia.
Speaker 2: Ooh, the amount of law Jim, Bob and Andrew have
created about Serbia is is outstanding too. It's so fun,
like eating salted weasel for Christmas.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I heard you.
Speaker 2: Guys.
Speaker 4: Also then take the weasel pelt and you actually brew
some kind of beer from that pelt.
Speaker 3: Correct.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I love that. But yeah, I appreciate doubling
our GDP. Rip. I know who he is. So, as
I said, so we have this discrepancy. As you said,
the only thing you can do is say somehow corruption.
But again, it would be slightly more defensible if they
were either both pre or post rename.
Speaker 4: Now, didn't Abraham at one point go to Serbia? Is
that part of the He was a sub Actually everyone
was until you know, the Great fall when.
Speaker 3: Well that everybody has this out of Africa theory, but
we all know that our origins are all actually Serbia.
Speaker 2: Yes, near the Daniel, we actually have some of the
oldest geological and archaeological finds that is actually true, like
the venture culture near Belgrade and near me I think
near where I live, I think we found like the
oldest archery ring.
Speaker 4: Do you have any megalists that you could say or
naphelim ufo experimentation sites to create serbs.
Speaker 2: And no, because we absorb them all. We just absorbed
their powers. That's why we're also tall and we get
deep voices and stuff. No, you have to go to
Bosnia for the pyramids and stuff. If you're aware of that,
that that that's a funny fun one together.
Speaker 3: So you've got the Google says you have Lipinsky Veer,
a mesolithic Neolithic settlement. That's not a megalith though.
Speaker 2: No, as I said, we we we we we we
are very good at hiding like our past. We don't
want to boast too much like about we we My
bishopric is centered in the birthplace of Emperor Constantine. You
know where we're We're too too big to fail.
Speaker 4: Here's a website for some weird website called the Megalith Portal,
and it looks like an old GeoCities website and they've
got a bunch of pictures of pots and buildings. So
this guy's arguing that you do have megaliths.
Speaker 2: I'm not aware of megaliths per se, but again, lots
of archaeology. So we had problems that there was this
there's this hill in the middle of my home city
and they wanted to put up you know, lamps around,
like the track that goes around people that often go
running there, and it was so jep buildings.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think you're right. I'm trying, I'm
trying to refute you in in all fun, but it
looks like you're right. None of these are actually megaliths,
are just archaeology sites.
Speaker 2: Well, there is a mountain called stall st O L
which is pretty flat at the top, so maybe that
was that's a remnant of something.
Speaker 3: Me too, says ask Posh about Jovanka Joelic.
Speaker 2: Jovanka. What's the surname.
Speaker 3: Yelick Jeelic, Yelick j o L.
Speaker 2: Not sure, let me look it up.
Speaker 3: That's okay, I mean, we got a.
Speaker 2: Oh god, no, we're asking it.
Speaker 3: It's basically Mila Joviovic. So how's that?
Speaker 2: Let's see No, no, so I couldn't connect her name
and her face. So there's this woman who claims like
everyone's claims, okay, and she goes on like our conspiracy
podcast networks and she's just like a regular woman and
she just keeps spouting things about UFOs and what.
Speaker 3: Crazy woman? Now is Milo Joovic Serbian?
Speaker 2: I think half I think on her father side, which
explains the surname. But I think she's half Italian or something.
Speaker 3: All right, So getting back down, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4: We're having fun, which is fine, We're getting back to
the problems here. What is this section here called the
philosophy of a Future State? Is that where we're at,
where we're at light of colo future state?
Speaker 3: What's next?
Speaker 2: So you can ignore the rest of these from the
website I sent you with the facsimiles, right, that's where
we are. Yeah, So the rest of the material there
isn't very heavy. Will go off of the notes I have.
So one is we already went through like it's an
achronistic for Abraham to be called Abraham while he is
in Egypt. But there is then also a problem if
this was written by Abraham himself. The book starts within
the land of the Chaldeans at the residence of my
father I Abraham, And apparently he never says I without
adding Abraham, because that's how people write, right, saw that
it was needful for me to obtain another place of residents,
et cetera, et cetera. Here's the problem. The Kaladeans won't
inhabit that place for at least fourteen hundred years. There
are obviously some variations on dating when exactly Abraham was around,
but if we go with two thousand years like BC,
we're about twelve hundred years from Caldians.
Speaker 3: Now I mentioned this too, but also I mean, that's
a great historical blunder. But I mean ancient texts citing
the king James.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty funny. Yeah, So he goes by ear
of Chaldeans or Caldians. Right now, this would be known
as such only after they would settle there, right, the Kaladians,
who will return later on to give us some pretty
funny etymology. But you know, we have things in the
Bible where place names get updated, like these toponyms. So Dan,
there are manuscripts out of the Bible which say Dan,
which is now Heliopolis. Obviously that name change would not
occur until after the Greeks conquered the place with Alexandria
and conquests, so it doesn't change anything. And there are
things in the Bible that get updated over time. So
Moses didn't speak what we know as Biblical Hebrew. He
would have spoken an earlier version of it that is
called Paleo Hebrew, and we have now I only dabble
with Hebrew. I focus much much more on Indo European language,
and specifically European languages. But we we have like works
like the Song of the Scene, which is very very
archaic in its construct So that is the least change
run because poetry tends to remain pretty stagnant in its form,
very difficult to translate, very difficult to update and maintain
its structure and stuff, unlike pros or just regular records.
So I've heard from people who are experts in some
languages and ancient Middle Eastern languages who say, yeah, we
have these pieces like the Song of the Sea, which
are exceedingly difficult to translate, even if your your Biblical
Hebrew is excellent. So obviously these things get updated over time,
and we are left with certain holders like mentioning Caldes,
even though again they would be after Moses himself. But
if we were, if we have records of Abraham himself,
why would he speak of the Kaldeans or the Kaldese
more than a millennium before they would inhabit the land
and he claims to be from that land. Right, So
we have just gone through the title header and the
first sentence, and this is where we are with massive
historical mistakes.
Speaker 3: We've got to move a little bit quicker. Okay, what's
next in terms of we've got the anachronisms here with
you know, Chaldeans. What's next?
Speaker 2: Okay? Obviously we have a Kna Lebnar, Mamacran, Korash nowhere
to be found. Now here's one. Pharaoh is mentioned as
a proper noun, the name of the first ruler of Egypt.
This is nonsense, not to mention that the rulers of
Egypt didn't really use the title pharaoh, which means the
great house after the royal palace. It was an epithet
of honor, first used in the eighteenth dynasty, starting from
the mid sixteenth century BC, so even if it were
a title, it would be centuries after Abraham. He's also
seen as a god, but not as the god king,
but like a regular one, which is strange in multiple ways.
So Pharaoh is said to be this first ruler, was
just and righteous in all of that. I'm seeing a
discontinuity between that and like having priests of Pharaoh. Like
we looked at the facsimiles earlier. But as I mentioned
in my note that like the Egyptian kings didn't call
themselves pharaohs. We call them pharaohs because of the Bible, right,
because the Bible calls them that. But that is the
name of the royal palace, and it was used from
the sixteenth century, not even consistently up until much later.
So again in anachronism, because he saw the word pharaoh
and wanted to do something with it.
Speaker 3: And what he did was is this where they come up?
The Mormons had this made up idea of reformed Egyptian, Yes.
Speaker 2: Which no Egyptologist knows what it is. So it's just
performed Egyptian. What is it? What time period? Can we
get anything? Nope? Just trust me, Bro. So that's because
we're moving on now. I want to go through this
fun little part and we will be using a whiteboard.
Because Egypt is alleged to have been discovered by a woman,
daughter of Egyptus, who was a daughter of Ham. The
name is said to be Chaldean forbidden. Now here's the thing.
First of all, we have the language of the Kaladeans, which,
as we said, not really a thing, especially not at
that point, but it says it's Egyptus. So what we
have him doing is basically trying to create like a
fake Latin word, and he writes it as a ship
tests so just smacks an oose at the end of
Egypt and his or her I can't remember anymore daughter
or discovers the land, and it means forbidden in Egypt
in a Chaldean. Here's the problem Egypt. The name itself
is Greek Egyptos, right, which means I think that what
was the gate of Tar or something? Right? I write
the Greek one us. Okay, Now, what the Romans did
was they took this name. There are alternative etymologies, but
one thing we know about the ancient Greeks is their
etymologies are not exactly reliable. But apparently this is like
the House of Tar or the Gate of Tar, because
there was a big temple of tar and the border.
But what the Romans did, Yeah, trus is this so
this is how you would write it in Latin. So
he didn't even get the Latin one correctly. He got
the etymology incorrect because he said, first of all a
language that he would not have even heard of in
his day, treated it as a fake Latin word, and
translated it in a way that makes no sense.
Speaker 3: The chat is said, the chat is fixated on Serbian
four K equals one for four P.
Speaker 2: There's a joke that if you want to watch Slavic videos,
you have to go with one forty four P. That's
the true Slavic experience.
Speaker 3: That you guys actually in your eyes see things at one.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, as you see, I'm wearing spectacles now,
and that's because I have astigmatism. And that's my orthodox
protest against the schemata. Okay, so it's a stigmataismology I get.
Speaker 3: So yeah, IQ, we got like one hundred and fifty
IQ word jokes being played here, and the audience is
over here trying to figure out, like what bitcoin is
like we got.
Speaker 2: IQ like my count.
Speaker 4: Your IQ is your pixel definition exactly one exact word, guys.
Remember As a side note, yes, because bitcoin has dipped significantly.
If you want to get started with bitcoin, you can
use my promo code for swe Bitcoin right here. They
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you can now sell. So I did do at Swan,
which they didn't used to do.
Speaker 2: That.
Speaker 3: You can now sell if you need to.
Speaker 4: But hey, discount prices today and this is the time
when smart money he goes all in. I'm not telling
you what to do because I'm not your register financial advisor,
but we have a significant dip, so it's a good time.
If you'd like to get a little bit of a discount,
BTC use that promo code there, Mud says for ten dollars.
I'm happy to see Posh back. It gives me great
joy to watch how he skins his weezl weight. It's
great joy because of the weasel skinning shack that he
has in Serbia. Okay, he makes beautiful tiny winter socks
for all the goats.
Speaker 3: At his village.
Speaker 4: Yes, and actually, for those that don't know, the weasels
they actually run inside little motors or hamster wheels, and
the weasels power the dial up AOL Internet. And I
know that only because it's the same setup that Tristan
has down in Ecuador. It's the same setup for it's
not called dial up, it's actually called roll up because
they have to they have to roll the Internet in
those hamster wheels, weasel wheels and so. But then when
the weasels die because they get heart attacks a lot
of time, Posh can actually skin them and brew a
local I p A from those weasel skins.
Speaker 3: So thank you for that.
Speaker 2: I'd appreciate if you stopped, you know, leaking the Serbo
Ecuadorian power generation secrets. Other than that, yeah, like we
are very We're very much into we are now very
conservative in terms of the environment. Just to go against
Bill Gates. So now I like it. I like it. Yes,
whatever Bill Gates says we do, we do the opposite.
Speaker 4: You guys do produce beautiful women out of this out
of these uh you know, village operations. I don't know
how do it, But you guys do produce some babes there.
Speaker 3: Thank you guys.
Speaker 4: Welcome everybody from the Crucible. Shout out to Jimbob, Shout
out to Injuring the Crucible. Let's see no one says
for two dollars, actually Mormon is a profit listed in
the Book of Mormon. I don't know why that wasn't
coming up on the websites, but thank you for that.
And shout out to all the weasels powering that dial
up internet that Pasha's.
Speaker 3: Got over there in Serbia. Now where are we at?
Speaker 4: Let's see apologize. I keep getting distracted by all these
awesome Serbian lord.
Speaker 2: Were talking about the name for Egypt, so again this
tickled my brain. You know, I know Latin and Greek,
so this really just jumped out at me. Had me
a hollering in terms of laughter. But additional information for
people interested. So Egyptians would have called the lamb keem it,
which means the black land, and no not the kangs
type of black, but just like fertile soil around the
rever nile. And as far as what people like the
Chaldeans or anyone, so Abraham would have spoken obviously something
some type of Acadian right, and in these lands, including
like every Semitic language, it is some variation of misro
mesiro missiro, which means the borderlands of frontier right for
those of you who don't know, like the Arabs like
they call them misro, I think right. Semitic languages are
very rigid in terms of their consonants, so they're very
very easy to understand amongst each other, like European languages
just scatter into a million different variations. But you know
the song from Polp fiction, that's a Greek song called
meaning like the Egyptian girl, Egyptian woman, whatever, So you
can look that up. M I s I h are.
Speaker 3: L o u.
Speaker 2: That's how you would spell it. It's a lot slower
than the film.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, check out, check out this babe right here, Like,
I don't know what you're talking about. But I'm over
here looking up the women that Serbia produces.
Speaker 2: I can't see the screw.
Speaker 4: I'm starting to think that maybe maybe the Weasels have
taken over because I'm over here thinking about Okay, you
guys made a Meala Djovavic or two, and now I'm
saying like I don't know, like, what's the women in
your in your village?
Speaker 2: Like is it? Is it?
Speaker 3: Mila Djoviovic's are got weasels? What's where we at here?
Because that's what matters right now.
Speaker 2: Well, a lot of them are taller than me and
I'm six foot one, so not how are they? Why
are they?
Speaker 3: Is that the n thing that we're talking about earlier?
Speaker 2: Well, yes, that's what I'm thinking. We have like this
girl at the gym legitimately six foot five, but yeah,
so very tall and we'll stab you. But oh yeah,
Eastern European women great looks. Do you know? Doctor?
Speaker 3: I'm about to post my Olga Ravasi doctor Olga Ravasi interview.
Did you do you know her? She seems a little intimidating.
She could probably take you out as she had to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm aware of that. I've you know, given up. Okay,
I will make it.
Speaker 3: Let's be honest.
Speaker 4: Have you experienced domestic spousal abuse from the Serbian women
that have that's what we're concerned about.
Speaker 2: Well, I didn't know it was. I was going to
get emotional. Well, the men, we are always so drunk,
we don't feel pain, so yeah, they beat us, but
it never works, so they get to let out some steam.
We can absorb it fairly easily because we're all built
like Urkhai. Apparently.
Speaker 4: Okay, well, Mud says, for five dollars, the women in
Pasha's village don't have a beard, unlike the village next door,
so it's a plus.
Speaker 3: So that's good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't say I have a bear. I respect
all my masculinity points into the voice. So that's the
choice I made, and I am left looking like a mongolia.
Speaker 4: Mud says again, Serbo Ecuadorian power structure sounds like a
finish metal band.
Speaker 3: It is a finished metal band, in fact, and they
only lies stre their concerts in one on a weasel
dial up.
Speaker 2: Yeah that and again the cleanest form of energy. Maybe
maybe you know we're so tall because we don't get
like the five G radiation and the rest of like
the power generation radiation that you get because it's so natural.
Speaker 3: I like how this is just totally turned into like
comedy hour, which is fine because that's what I love
to do.
Speaker 2: People asked you when you were going to get funny.
Speaker 4: Dean says, Posh, we need updates on whether you have
decided to like peanut butter.
Speaker 2: I don't like it. It's I feel like I'm eating
like like plaster or something. Yeah, it just sticks to
the top of your mouth and stuff like why I
always wondered why you would eat like that with jam,
Like in Serbia, we don't really mix wheat and sour.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't like peanut butter with jam. I agree
with that. But yeah, peanut butter is pretty good. I mean, okay,
fair enough.
Speaker 2: Maybe in like a candy bar, it can work like
the one mixed with with like a biscuit or something
and some chocolate. I don't really eat sweet, but when
I was a child, I really didn't mind that. So
that's the best I can give you.
Speaker 4: All right, how much more? I'm gonna have to go
pretty soon. So what's start? Where are we at with
your Mormon expose?
Speaker 2: So I can speed through a lot of this. So
it says it speaks of the people of the earth
being blessed in Abraham seed. Even with the Gospel, there
is a problem, like they treat gospel like like it's
some word you can put in the words of in
the mouth of Abraham. But gospel or in modern Greek
me is a specific it's a technical term. And it's
the good news. Isn't like, hey, you want some money
or something you inherited something from like a dead aunt, whatever. No,
it is the good news. You would send a herald
of like an emperor or an important general or senator
in Rome, I was going to visit some city, he
would send a herald and he would read out his
yuan gelia. It's usually found in the plural, so his accomplishments.
So when we speak of the Gospel of Christ, it
is his victory over death and sin, and it is
an announcement that He's coming. That's why people ask what
do I do to be saved? When you know the king,
this king you speak of, is coming. Right, So it
makes no sense because in this Book of Abraham it
says which pertains to like salvation and blessings and stuff
like yeah, sure, but we are so detached that hell
even you know Judea that is I would argue this
is also a huge anachronism in this book. Okay, yeah,
so the and Thummim. Throughout Mormonism we see the seer
stones the thummim, and there, I don't know what you do,
you like put them in front of your eyes next
to your eyes, and you like get visions and stuff.
But that's not what the ur and Thummim were. The
Thummim and as far as I know, we don't get
that until we get the high priestood with Aaron. And
the description of what the high priest has is ephod
and like all the gemstones, et cetera, et cetera. But
with these two stones, we don't know how exactly they
were used. But their function was when no solution could
be reached, like they're trying to make a decision on something,
they would cast the Urim and Thummim, and however they
would read the way they landed is they would say, well,
God has you know, pushed over to this and it's
sort of like we don't know who're going to go
to restaurant A or B, so you like flip a coin.
That's what the seer stones were. They were not magic
stones that you use to give yourselves a vision or
to translate things. So obviously this is again again this
isn't just in the Book of Abraham, but it is
mentioned in the Book of Abraham, and again they are
part of the High Priest that we get with Aaron.
So this is a shorter one. In this book, Abraham
is told by God to say Sarah was his sister,
but in Genesis twelve this is not the case. In fact,
this shows that Abraham doesn't fully trust God to protect him,
so he lies. So in the biblical corpus, God doesn't
tell this to Abraham. So throughout the Bible we have
a reticence on the part of a lot of our protagonists,
so to speak.
Speaker 3: Yeah, very similar to to Islam in that you know,
the Qur'an, for example, mixes up a lot of the
Biblical stories and gets them backwards.
Speaker 2: Yes, So one thing I wanted to contact you about.
I don't think I did say, but I think I
realized why they think Ezra is the son of Allah,
because Ezra funds that founded like the synagogue system. And
I think from this half formed idea of Christianity and
Judaism that Muhammad had, I think, well, Christians they go
to church once a week to worship the Son of God.
So Jews go to sin agogue once a week and
they worshiped the Son of God. And Ezra founded this
synagogue system. I think he somehow like reverse engineered it
into an idea of Ezra being the son of That's
literally the only explanation I could find as to why
Jews would purport to believing that Ezra is the son.
Speaker 3: Of allan Mormons Jews, I mean muscles.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Muslims would claim the Jews believe.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So but we see again these half formed thoughts that
just shatter into into nonsense. Yeah, and I have some
smaller things like this is where we get colar, eternal matter,
eternal souls, multiplicity of God. This is the book you
would go to to find this. And again it's supposed
to serve as some type of like pre genesis or
like I found.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is the only text that mentions coll
op So this is really the formative like sci fi
space text part of Mormonism too, right.
Speaker 2: Yes, and you would see why he would want it
to be in this text because it would be the
oldest text we had, Right, It was from Abraham himself,
So we're almost not at least, but around a thousand
years away from from Moses and stuff. So if you
want to give credence to the nonsense you're trying to create,
you would put it in the earliest possible book.
Speaker 3: We have a Serb in the chat claiming that you
are not Serbian? Is there any way that you could
refute that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, popilius sum mania many unitsy balis try beating that
no one just sounded like the equivalent of cottnight, Joe.
It's like a very mean song over here.
Speaker 3: So hard time. Does that prove to you that Posh
is actually Serbian? I don't know why he's so convinced
that you're not.
Speaker 2: Maybe he sees this as a try hard and I
also have these two Greek hats over here, so it
might be betraying.
Speaker 3: He said, w TF. Now he doesn't know what to say.
He's he's mystified.
Speaker 2: I overserved him at that point.
Speaker 3: All right, where are we at? We're getting towards the conclusion.
Speaker 2: We're pretty much at the end. There's there's a lot
I can with a lot of smaller points I can make,
but that's basically it. Especially if if you've got to go.
Speaker 4: I thank you so much, guys. Everybody be sure and
follow Pasha. I've got him linked right here on the page.
You can see I put his links in the chat
as well if you want to follow him on X
And also, as you said, he's a researcher for the
crucible and shout out to all those guys in Jim
Bob and welcome and let's see remember to head on
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Speaker 3: So you either pull a meal ajoviovich or you pull
a X.
Speaker 4: Brutalizer beating and what's the word I'm looking for a
domestic abuse situation. That's Pasha's X. You can handle these
women with chalk dot com. Use a promo co jif
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you up. Posh, what are you gonna leave us with?
Thank you so much for this research, No problem.
Speaker 2: Chalk dot com be as tall as a serbian woman.
Speaker 4: Talk dot com making you more Serb women than the
Serb women, so that you can handle the Serb women.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Posh, everybody, have a great night
and we will talk to you and see you soon.
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you.