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True Murder with your host, 31 00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:44.480 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 32 00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:58.799 Good Evening. This episode of True Murder is brought to 33 00:01:58.840 --> 00:02:05.040 you by Audible, the world's leading name in digital audio books. 34 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:09.680 When Jerry Hyman's son arrived at his father's home in Everett, Washington, 35 00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:13.639 he found his grandmother in Alzheimer's patient alone in the house, 36 00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:19.439 starving and dehydrated. His father was missing, the furniture was gone. 37 00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:23.680 Within hours, police realized that Jerry's living housekeeper, Barbara Ople, 38 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:28.280 had robbed him and fled, But where was Jerry. The 39 00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:31.639 next morning, Opal's eleven year old son led police to 40 00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:38.000 Jerry's body. Soon, stunned detectives were getting confessions from a 41 00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:42.439 rag tag group of teens and preteens. At Barbara Ople's command, 42 00:02:42.919 --> 00:02:45.840 they had set upon Jerry Hymen with knives, fists, and 43 00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:50.039 baseball bats and battered him to death. From thirteen year 44 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:52.879 old Heather who frantically stabbed Jerry after having sex with 45 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:55.800 her boyfriend, to seven year old Tiffany, who helped clean 46 00:02:55.879 --> 00:02:58.919 up the blood. This is the horrifying true story of 47 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:02.039 how a mother turned her children and their friends into 48 00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:06.199 stone cold killers and then rewarded them for their crime. 49 00:03:06.759 --> 00:03:09.840 The book that we're featuring this evening is Mum Said Kill, 50 00:03:10.360 --> 00:03:15.159 with my special guest, journalist and author Burrel Bear. Welcome 51 00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:17.960 back to the program, the incomparable burrough Bear. 52 00:03:18.759 --> 00:03:21.840 It's always a pleasure to be on your show, Dad. 53 00:03:22.199 --> 00:03:24.159 And it's always a pleasure to have you on my show. 54 00:03:24.199 --> 00:03:29.639 And the audience reacts accordingly. Let's get right down to this. 55 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:36.960 Another incredible story here and the subsequent book Mum Said 56 00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:44.039 Kill before we start, let's sure, go ahead, go ahead. 57 00:03:44.919 --> 00:03:47.960 Well, I was going to say, is my friend Tony Stevens, 58 00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:51.240 who was news director of the radio station ever Washington 59 00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:54.680 with the crime took place. If this murder, it's aftermath 60 00:03:54.719 --> 00:03:56.919 and the attempts by those involved to cover it up 61 00:03:57.439 --> 00:04:00.400 is so incredibly bizarre, so twist to the in both 62 00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:04.159 its conception and execution that I don't think we've ever 63 00:04:04.199 --> 00:04:07.080 witnessed a more tragic destruction of human life, not only 64 00:04:07.080 --> 00:04:11.520 by homicide, but by the manipulation of vulnerable youngsters. Now, 65 00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:14.199 this story isn't know who done, it's how they held 66 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:15.520 what ever happened in the first place. 67 00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:19.560 Yes, absolutely, and that's what I like about your book, 68 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:22.279 and we'll get to that as the story proceeds too. 69 00:04:22.319 --> 00:04:27.920 That this is again another we'll say typical birlbear in 70 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:30.600 that there is the story, and then there is the 71 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:34.120 story behind the story, and then the analysis of what 72 00:04:34.720 --> 00:04:39.639 we can possibly learn from, Like you say, such a senseless, bizarre, 73 00:04:39.879 --> 00:04:46.399 ridiculous waste of life. Anyway, let's get to let's get 74 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:48.680 to some Let's get to some of the characters here. 75 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:51.439 In one of the main characters is Barbara Ople and 76 00:04:52.399 --> 00:04:56.600 in two thousand and one, when this crime occurs, she 77 00:04:56.759 --> 00:05:00.360 is thirty eight. But tell us about Barbara Opoles, much 78 00:05:00.439 --> 00:05:06.120 as you found about Barbara Ople her upbringing. What was 79 00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:09.759 Barbara Ople like? And before we talked about how she 80 00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:13.560 became in the position to be a caretaker for Jerry Hymen. 81 00:05:15.399 --> 00:05:19.720 Essentially, i'd say that she was damaged in shipping and handling, 82 00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:23.560 and some of her contents may have settled. Even as 83 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:27.240 a child. Her sister said that Barbara seemed to have 84 00:05:27.319 --> 00:05:32.480 some depooted problems, and an analysis of her medical examination 85 00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:36.279 whatever you want to call it evaluation, determined that she 86 00:05:36.439 --> 00:05:42.160 really did not have the thought capacity, the planning capacity 87 00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:45.360 of a mature adult. She was pretty much on the 88 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:48.560 same level as her kids, except she was the authority 89 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:51.519 figure she By the time she was an adult, she 90 00:05:51.560 --> 00:05:54.439 got married. She had two kids by her husband. That 91 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:59.199 marriage was a failure. They were divorced, and he moved 92 00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:02.000 off to Spokane and sent money for the kids, but 93 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:06.680 apparently it wasn't getting there. I guess she did not 94 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:12.120 exactly have the world's best reputation. She was known as 95 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:17.040 a loud, screaming, obnoxious woman who yelled at her kids, 96 00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:20.959 constantly dragged one kid through the mall by his hair. 97 00:06:21.560 --> 00:06:27.439 I mean, just you know, really domineering personality. But she 98 00:06:27.560 --> 00:06:30.000 also she was kind of on the same level as 99 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:32.279 the kids. She did all the same things the kids did. 100 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:35.360 She kind of played with them when they played, but 101 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:38.399 when she went into that authority mode, all bets were 102 00:06:38.439 --> 00:06:41.360 off and the only way to stop the screaming, stop 103 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:46.399 the abuse was just do whatever Mom said. No matter 104 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:47.160 what it. 105 00:06:47.040 --> 00:06:52.199 Was now, where was the where was her husband? Is 106 00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:55.000 it Bill at this time? What was the marriage? How 107 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:59.040 could you, I guess, characterize the marriage? And where the 108 00:06:59.079 --> 00:07:01.959 heck was he all this abuse? So tell us a 109 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:04.240 little bit about his seven year marriage. 110 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:09.160 He didn't stick around very long. It was always very volatile. 111 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:11.759 She was always screaming and yelling, and I guess he'd 112 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:17.240 screaming yell back. Finally, he divorced her, moved off to 113 00:07:18.279 --> 00:07:21.040 the other side of the state. He didn't really get 114 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:23.399 to see his kids. He wanted to, but you know, 115 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:25.959 it was she was supposed to let him see the kids, 116 00:07:25.959 --> 00:07:29.279 but that that just wasn't working out. It was always 117 00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:35.519 a problem. She then had an affair with mister Gudeau, 118 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:39.160 who is the father of her young daughter, Tiffany. That's 119 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:42.240 why Tiffany has a different last name than the other kids. 120 00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:44.920 Although she and mister Gudeau were. 121 00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:49.560 Never married, and he'll come into play a little bit 122 00:07:49.639 --> 00:07:55.279 later as a kind of an important figure once against. 123 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:58.879 I'm in communication with his his his ex wife, Tricia. 124 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:02.160 I'm pronouncing her name correctly. She also figures in the 125 00:08:02.199 --> 00:08:04.360 book quite promerly. As a matter of fact, at the 126 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:08.680 very beginning, he was a colorful character that he was 127 00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:11.399 an admitted bank robber, but he didn't think that should 128 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:15.319 affect the validity of his testimony in court. There's a 129 00:08:15.319 --> 00:08:19.480 really good muse that had nothing to do with his testimony. 130 00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:27.800 Yes, good luck with that. Now we're talking about this place, Everett, Washington. 131 00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:31.199 Now tell us what it's a close proximity to, so 132 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:33.639 that we know geographically what we're talking about here, and 133 00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:36.799 what's Everett is it? Is it a suburb or is 134 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:38.320 it a small town? What's it really like? 135 00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:41.440 It's a small town with its own rather historical identity. 136 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:47.600 It's north of Seattle, just west of muckle Teo, which 137 00:08:47.639 --> 00:08:52.360 is another smaller town. But Everett at one time was 138 00:08:52.759 --> 00:08:56.720 a significant logging town in the Pacific Northwest. There's also 139 00:08:56.799 --> 00:08:58.679 a shipping from there. It's a lovely area. In fact, 140 00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:02.679 a lot of television shows shoot in Everett, Washington because 141 00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:06.960 it has a variety of architecture. It can stand in 142 00:09:07.080 --> 00:09:12.039 for almost any city in America. So there's actually Warner 143 00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:16.159 Brothers even has a sound stage in muckle Teo, which 144 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:18.159 is next door to Evert and they do a lot 145 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:19.000 of filming up there. 146 00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:27.480 Interesting. Now, tell us about this Jerry Hyman, And at this. 147 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:34.480 Jerry Hyman had worked for Boeing, the Plain Building Company. 148 00:09:34.519 --> 00:09:37.799 In fact, the largest building in the world, not the tallest, 149 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:41.120 but the largest building in the world is in Everett, Washington, 150 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:47.039 and that was the airplane manufacturing plant of Boeing was 151 00:09:47.080 --> 00:09:49.559 headquartered there, which is now but it was for many 152 00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:53.440 many years, and he worked for Boeing. Retired from there, 153 00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:58.480 and unfortunately he was diagnosed with cancer. He was faced 154 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:00.840 with a choice. He could to devote his time and 155 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:04.279 energy to getting treeting for his cancer, or he could 156 00:10:04.279 --> 00:10:06.960 devote his time and energy to caring for his Alzheimer's 157 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:11.279 afflicted mother. He chose to care for his mother. That 158 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:15.519 was his entire focus, was not putting her off in 159 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:18.799 a home or something, but taking care of her himself, 160 00:10:19.120 --> 00:10:21.759 living with her in the home, being a comfort to her, 161 00:10:21.799 --> 00:10:25.320 and concentrating more on the quality of life rather than 162 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:28.720 the amount of it, I guess. And he needed some 163 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:31.399 help around the house, and he just happened to bump 164 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:34.840 into I think of the dairy queen, you know, fast 165 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:38.919 food place, Barbara opol who had lived in so many 166 00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:42.440 different places. She'd been evicted continually or kicked out for 167 00:10:42.519 --> 00:10:45.840 not paying rent, living in her car with her three kids, 168 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:50.519 and struck up a conversation with him, and she told 169 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:53.879 him that she'd be a wonderful caretaker for his agent 170 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:58.360 and in for her mother. And she convinced him and 171 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:00.919 he moved to her and her kids into his home 172 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:04.879 and they began taking care of this woman that the 173 00:11:04.919 --> 00:11:07.919 kids officially called grandma. And actually they did take good 174 00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:10.639 care of her when they were doing that. 175 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:15.320 Now, how long was it? And and just to introduce 176 00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:18.360 the characters as well, that there is Derek, which is 177 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:22.320 eleven years old, and Tiffany, the daughter, is seven years old, 178 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:29.799 and Heather is at the time of the thirteen right, okay, 179 00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:32.799 so and the grandmother go ahead. 180 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:38.200 I was gonna say Heather was to sound very strange 181 00:11:38.200 --> 00:11:40.879 to say, a wonderful kid. She did very very well 182 00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:46.559 in school, academically, charming personality and a sports star, A legend, 183 00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:51.200 A sports legend at an early age, especially in terms 184 00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:52.360 of basketball, A citer. 185 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:53.159 She was. 186 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:59.279 A great sportsperson, very athletic, and excelled on the team. 187 00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:02.000 Is the only problem was that the mother would show 188 00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:05.279 up and scream at her from the sidelines. But she 189 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:07.759 was a very accomplished kid. I mean if you were 190 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:10.000 to say, what kid in this school is going to 191 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:13.200 commit violent murder, her name would not even be anywhere 192 00:12:13.639 --> 00:12:16.279 near the list. There's something that no one could conceive 193 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:17.759 of her being involved in such a thing. 194 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:22.960 Now, she was a really they said, a brilliant kid. 195 00:12:23.039 --> 00:12:26.159 So she's a very bright kid at the very least. 196 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:30.000 What else was how else would you characterize her personality? 197 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:33.960 Was she somewhat? She was outgoing? Was she shy? Was 198 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:34.840 she a little naive? 199 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:35.440 Was? 200 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:36.320 What was the truth? 201 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:41.399 Characterized her? Characterized her as naive at all, especially considering 202 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:45.360 the life she'd lit living in a variety of places, 203 00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:49.159 having a dominating mother. I think perhaps her life really 204 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:55.000 maybe flourished in that school environment away from home because 205 00:12:55.039 --> 00:12:58.480 she was admired, she was respected, she was accomplished, and 206 00:12:58.919 --> 00:13:02.480 she was very comfortable in the in the the the 207 00:13:02.519 --> 00:13:05.639 realm of school. And then everybody liked her and she 208 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:06.559 was good looking kid. 209 00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:10.960 Now we we talked about Jerry Hyman a little bit. 210 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:13.279 But what's interesting in your book is you talk about 211 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:17.360 that a testament to the to this man's personality is 212 00:13:17.399 --> 00:13:21.480 that three of his really good friends happened to be 213 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:22.399 ex wives. 214 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:27.679 Ex wives. Yes, this is the guy Jerry, from everything 215 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:29.960 I've learned about him, and I mentioned this the book, 216 00:13:30.039 --> 00:13:34.600 is one of these people that everybody liked. And maybe 217 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:38.600 his problem with the marriages was in the plurality the 218 00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:41.720 probably women was only in the plurality, not of the personality. 219 00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:48.679 And his ex wives were still is among his best friends, 220 00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:54.039 and he was seriously considering remarrying one of them for 221 00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:55.919 the second time, I think her third time. I started 222 00:13:55.919 --> 00:14:00.000 to keep track, But everybody liked Jerry and he alway, 223 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:02.080 we saw the best in everybody and brought out the 224 00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:06.200 best in other people. I've never heard an unkind word 225 00:14:06.399 --> 00:14:07.120 about Jerry on. 226 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:13.159 Now. This is important to later in the story in 227 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:17.000 that for all accounts Jerry's this is really great guy 228 00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:19.600 that has no problems with anybody, not with his kids, 229 00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:23.519 not with his uh, not with anyone. And and in 230 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:26.879 it by all accounts too, he was very happy with 231 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:30.320 the work that Barbara was doing, and he was happy 232 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:33.679 with them being there in her entire family, her and 233 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:36.600 her kids, and he was very generous with them as well. 234 00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:43.720 Was there any dark was there any sort of dark 235 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:45.960 personality that he had? Did Jerry get drunk once in 236 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:48.600 a while, and maybe he went the Heather was there, 237 00:14:49.159 --> 00:14:50.320 was there anything like that. 238 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:56.240 He did drink, but he was not physically abusive, or 239 00:14:57.080 --> 00:15:01.480 i'd say the full extent of his quotes verbal abuse 240 00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:05.360 is he thought sometimes she dressed a little slutty, and 241 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:08.720 he said so, you know, he would speak his mind. 242 00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:11.519 He wasn't the father, He wasn't enjoy but you know, 243 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:13.919 he was an adult that he would make comments that 244 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:17.279 you know, they should, you know, dress a little more conservatively. 245 00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:20.200 When when she went out with the other kids, he 246 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:23.279 was very generous. He bought them all Christmas presents and 247 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:29.600 very forgiving and overlooking of the fault. One time, Barbara, 248 00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:35.279 the primary caregiver of his mother, forged a check from 249 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:38.279 I think about twelve hundred bucks and she had some 250 00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:42.360 excuse and he let it go. In fact, he even 251 00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:45.600 said to some of his friends that he was if 252 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:47.559 you hear that I got murdered, I wouldn't be said 253 00:15:47.639 --> 00:15:49.879 Barbara did it. But he wouldn't get rid of her. 254 00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:56.000 He wouldn't fire her because weighing one thing against another, 255 00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:00.480 she and the kids took great care of his mom, 256 00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:05.159 kept the place very clean and nice, and he could 257 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:08.279 put up with a little bit of a little bit 258 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:12.399 of you know, figured life short, he die of cancer. 259 00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:13.799 He just wants to take care of his mom. He 260 00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:17.879 doesn't need the aggravation, you know. Okay, we'll just let 261 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:19.559 let some things slide. 262 00:16:21.879 --> 00:16:24.519 Now. Was there when you talked about when I mentioned 263 00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:29.080 about was there any type of possible verbal abuse something 264 00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:33.159 that later on in the story, as we'll explain, is 265 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:37.039 important if it's true or not true. When you say 266 00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:40.879 he thought she dressed a little bit slutty, did he 267 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:45.360 indicate that use that kind of language or was he 268 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:51.159 reasonable in his criticism, because then someone can turn that around. 269 00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:57.480 You know, a young girl is very sensitive and make misconstrue. 270 00:16:57.679 --> 00:16:59.639 Well, you know, I'll let me give you an example here. 271 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:06.119 All right, everyone that got roped into killing Jerry Heather's friends, 272 00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:10.599 they all heard from her mother how horribly abusive Jerry 273 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:13.680 was to her. And her best friend was this girl 274 00:17:13.720 --> 00:17:20.200 from every middle school named Mary and Oliver. And she says, 275 00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:24.319 this is from what the police officers told me. She 276 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:27.000 told us of her involvement. She said that she'd been 277 00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:30.240 approached by Barbara Opel to kill Jerry Hymen, but Oliver 278 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:32.640 declined because she didn't think she could do such a thing. 279 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:39.319 She was always told that by Barbara that Heather was 280 00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:43.039 being abused. It was always Barbara telling people that all 281 00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:49.200 the people who were angry about it never saw it themselves. Now, 282 00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:53.640 Marian did get in trouble with Jerry because she hit 283 00:17:53.720 --> 00:17:55.680 him once with a baseball bat, not the time he 284 00:17:55.720 --> 00:17:58.720 was murdered, but at another time, and he didn't think 285 00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:02.319 they was particularly amusing to get out of there, So 286 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:03.880 why did she hit him with a baseball? 287 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:04.279 Back then? 288 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:08.480 She was being very, very strange, And you know, it 289 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:12.039 was one of those things of kind of a kid 290 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:15.680 doing something that wasn't necessarily malicious to begin with. It 291 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:19.240 just got a little out of hands. Sometimes kids swing 292 00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:22.799 things around and act a little peculiar, and their motives 293 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:29.319 aren't really severely bad, but something unfortunate happens, and that 294 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:33.079 was kind of a situation there. So Barbara kept telling 295 00:18:33.160 --> 00:18:36.960 people how horribly abusive he was. Now, when he drank, 296 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:40.960 he may may have been cranky, but he never hurt 297 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:46.200 these people. He was always financially generous, overlooked their faults, 298 00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:49.519 made sure they were comfortable and happy, and he, after all, 299 00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:53.119 he thought enough of them that he trusted his beloved 300 00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:56.119 mother to them to take care of her. You know, 301 00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:58.359 feed her, bathe her, all that stuff. 302 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:04.799 Now let's get to because we were already speaking about it. 303 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:08.839 Jerry has a son named Greg, and he hasn't seen 304 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:11.200 him in five years. And like you had said that 305 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:14.880 Jerry had just found out, and I guess that the 306 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:17.359 son had found out. You can correct me if I'm 307 00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:20.319 wrong about the terminal cancer. And him and his wife 308 00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:24.720 were coming flying in from Arkansas to visit with the father. 309 00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:29.119 And that's when take it. Basically from there. They get 310 00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:32.640 off the plane, they expect Jerry to be I mean a. 311 00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:35.279 Big build up. Not only was a big build up 312 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:38.759 for Greg and his wife, but also for Jerry. He 313 00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:41.680 was so looking forward to seeing his son, and the 314 00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:45.200 son and his wife was so looking forward to seeing Dad. 315 00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:47.759 I mean Jerry went out and he bought all their 316 00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:50.440 favorite foods. I mean they were going to have a 317 00:19:50.599 --> 00:19:53.920 wonderful time, you know. I mean this is something level 318 00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:58.200 of expectation was right up there. And they get off 319 00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:00.920 the plane expecting Dad to meet him. Dad's not there, 320 00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:04.480 and they wait and they wait and they wait and 321 00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:08.559 they call the house and there's no answer, which is 322 00:20:08.599 --> 00:20:13.359 double peculiar because even if Dad somehow got the time, 323 00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:17.000 is mixed up. Certainly Barbara, the caregiver, would answer the phone, 324 00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:21.200 but there was no answer. Finally, they took a cab 325 00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:24.319 all the way from SeaTac Airport to Everett. Went to 326 00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:28.480 the house and no one's opening the door, and there 327 00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:30.920 were even things on the front ports had been left 328 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:34.839 there for Jerry to give with them by actually his 329 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:39.680 girlfriend or ex wife or whatever. Greg finally lets himself 330 00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:41.759 into the house. He finds an open window or something 331 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:48.839 gets in there, and there's his grandmother, dehydrated, sitting at 332 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:51.839 the table in the Berkeley empty room in a wheelchair, 333 00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:55.119 eating newspaper that it's on the table because there's only 334 00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:57.759 things she could get to put in her mouth. Now, 335 00:20:57.799 --> 00:20:59.319 this obviously doesn't look good at all. 336 00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:03.359 He has, and she soiled her and she's been sitting 337 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:06.200 in her own and she's sitting in her own thesis 338 00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:08.200 for for this amount of time. 339 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:10.880 And none of this, of course makes an he's sense 340 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:13.839 to him. Now, you can't really make sense out of 341 00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:17.920 something that doesn't make sense. So he doesn't quite know 342 00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:19.680 what to do. And now it's you know, later in 343 00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:22.319 the day, later in the evening, he's calling all around 344 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:27.160 looking for his dad, trying to find him his dad's 345 00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:30.160 ex wife comes over to help look and try to 346 00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:33.559 find him and just can't make sense. Plus you've had 347 00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:38.079 a long flight, so they you know, try to rest 348 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:40.160 up whatever. You know. 349 00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:45.000 What else is well, the other suspicious not suspicious thing 350 00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:48.480 is because they talked to the neighbor. They come to 351 00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:50.759 a house that was normally filled with things and the 352 00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:51.559 place is empty. 353 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:56.839 Yeah, there's all sorts of furniture missing. And the neighbor 354 00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:01.039 lady you know, oh yeah, you all came in the 355 00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:03.480 and gee, we heard he was off in Las Vegas. 356 00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:06.319 I mean, things just didn't make any sense. This didn't 357 00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:12.200 add up. And what is really ironic is that the 358 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:17.880 Ever Police Department gets a phone call pertually the same 359 00:22:18.039 --> 00:22:23.839 day from Missus Goudeau, who calls to tell the Ever 360 00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:28.359 Police Department that she thinks Barbara Ople is going to 361 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:30.440 kill Jerry Hymen. 362 00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:33.359 Why is that? 363 00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:36.200 Well, that's what the police one know. She wouldn't leave 364 00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:38.680 her name. She just got this you know, like crime 365 00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:42.160 stoppers tip or whatever. So they get this fellow to 366 00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:45.839 like from you know, elderly Services or whatever they call it, 367 00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:50.519 to go buy there, to go buy the house and 368 00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:53.720 check on him. Well, he shows up it's the next morning, 369 00:22:53.799 --> 00:22:58.160 and Greig's there and guys, gee, I'm glad you're okay. 370 00:22:58.160 --> 00:22:59.680 So though I'm not my dad, we don't know where 371 00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:04.720 my dad is. It's very peculiar that it's all all 372 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:07.799 kind of you know, happens at the same time. And 373 00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:10.559 then of course they now in the daylight, they see 374 00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:15.359 there's blood stains on the wheelchair, blood stains a little drops, 375 00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:17.759 the blood on the wall and the ceiling, on the chandelier, 376 00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:21.759 you know. And then where's Barbara Ople? Where's Barbara and 377 00:23:21.799 --> 00:23:24.119 the kids? You know? I mean, they call the cops. 378 00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:25.759 The cops are there, and no, sooner do you have 379 00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:29.480 cops there than the phone rings or whatever. And it's 380 00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:34.799 one of the other policemen totally disconnected from this, informing 381 00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:38.599 them that Barbara Ople has just been in a traffic 382 00:23:40.119 --> 00:23:44.079 mishap driving a U haul truck filled with furniture a 383 00:23:44.119 --> 00:23:45.000 few blocks away. 384 00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:48.880 Now, what was the other The other thing that was 385 00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:54.599 very suspicious was that Jerry, being a business guy, padlocked 386 00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:59.720 his bedroom, his office bedroom, his room. And when they 387 00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:02.519 came what did they find, which, again, they found. 388 00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:05.559 That everything had been gone through, papers were strewn everywhere. 389 00:24:06.200 --> 00:24:10.759 Tornado hit the place, That was also very unustul because 390 00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:12.960 I was totally out of character with his father. But no, 391 00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:15.559 you don't want to think in your mind that, geez, 392 00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:18.480 someone came in here, ransacked my dad's house. My dad's missing, 393 00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:21.200 they kidnapped him her. You know, you don't want to 394 00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:23.920 put your head in that place, especially after traveling all 395 00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:26.400 that way to see your dad. They figured there must 396 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:30.039 be some rational explanation for this. Well, there never was 397 00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:33.519 a rational explanation for any of it, not for the homicide, 398 00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:36.079 not for the aftermath, not for the crime or the 399 00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:38.359 follow up. The whole thing is irrational. 400 00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:42.920 Well, let's just go back just slightly, because you talked 401 00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:46.640