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<v Speaker 1>A gentleman who will be at the Sturm College of

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<v Speaker 1>Law tomorrow at University of Denver. It's an event happening

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<v Speaker 1>at five point thirty pm and it is put on

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<v Speaker 1>by an organization called Keep Our Republic and it is

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<v Speaker 1>a panel discussion about judicial independence. And joining me now

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about it is Judge Ogrady. Judge, welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>the show. First of all, all right, thank.

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<v Speaker 2>You and thank you so much for agreed to allow

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<v Speaker 2>Keep our Republic and the Article three Coalition some time

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<v Speaker 2>on your show today to talk about judicial independence and

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<v Speaker 2>our lecture and.

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<v Speaker 3>Our town hall coming up tomorrow evening.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you, No, my pleasure. Could you tell my audience

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit about Keep our Republic? What is the organization?

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<v Speaker 3>What is the goal?

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<v Speaker 2>Sure? Keep Our Republic is an organ group that started,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, quite a few years years ago, and it

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<v Speaker 2>was focused on ensuring voting rights were observed in beginning

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<v Speaker 2>in Pennsylvania and in the Midwest, and they.

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<v Speaker 3>Have they tracked election cycles.

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<v Speaker 2>But they now we're a subset of the Keep Our

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<v Speaker 2>Republican Our group is called the Article three Coalition. It's

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<v Speaker 2>made up of almost fifty judges, federal judges who are

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<v Speaker 2>all retired, both district judges, trial judges, and circuit judges,

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<v Speaker 2>the Court of Appeals judges. About half of us were

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<v Speaker 2>nominated and placed in office by Republicans presidents and half

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<v Speaker 2>by Democratic presidents. So we're a very nonpartisan group that

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<v Speaker 2>is very concer learned about our judicial independence, the erosion

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<v Speaker 2>of faith in the decisions that judges are making, and

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<v Speaker 2>the threats that are being made to our former colleagues

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<v Speaker 2>which have become pretty acerbic.

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<v Speaker 1>And so.

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<v Speaker 2>We're having this public forum tomorrow an attempt to educate

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<v Speaker 2>the public about what's going on and to answer questions

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<v Speaker 2>that they have about the role of the judiciary, of

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<v Speaker 2>the necessity for in an independent judiciary, and any other

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<v Speaker 2>matters that they want to discuss during the town hall meeting.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, Judge, and I think a vast majority of people

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<v Speaker 1>in this listening audience would agree that an independent judiciary

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<v Speaker 1>is a critical part of our three tiers of government,

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<v Speaker 1>the three planks that we rely on. But how to

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<v Speaker 1>respond to a criticism from someone who says, look, Judge,

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<v Speaker 1>I appreciate that there needs to be an independent judiciary,

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<v Speaker 1>but we have so much politicization, the appearance of politicization

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<v Speaker 1>by judges themselves, and I have to say with the

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<v Speaker 1>Trump administration, uh specifically, we've had a lot of federal

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<v Speaker 1>judges or district judges even offering nationwide injunctions and things

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<v Speaker 1>of that nature. So how do you balance the need

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<v Speaker 1>and necessity of an independent judiciary with the with some

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<v Speaker 1>politicization or the appearance of politicization that people are perceiving.

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<v Speaker 3>U Mandy.

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<v Speaker 2>The the overwhelming number of judges, UH don't engage in

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<v Speaker 2>anyization uh of.

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<v Speaker 3>Of their decisions.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, our code of conduct uh you know ask

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<v Speaker 2>because you know not to uh politicize any of the

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<v Speaker 2>decisions that they have made.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, we.

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<v Speaker 2>Are we're supposed to speak through our opinions and otherwise

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<v Speaker 2>be silent. And the perception that we have politicized this

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<v Speaker 2>it comes from I think the talk around the decisions

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<v Speaker 2>themselves which people disagree with, and that's fine. Civic discourse

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<v Speaker 2>is how our nation got as far as we did

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<v Speaker 2>in the last two hundred and fifty years.

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<v Speaker 3>You can disagree with judge's decisions, and many have.

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<v Speaker 2>Recently, and they've all been important decisions, as some of

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<v Speaker 2>the judges have been making. But our system is built

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<v Speaker 2>so that there's an Appellate Court and the Supreme Court

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<v Speaker 2>that looks at those decisions and to Germans have you know,

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<v Speaker 2>whether they're correct decisions or not. But the accusations against

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<v Speaker 2>district judges just because they have ruled in a way

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<v Speaker 2>that is unpopular does nothing but a road the confidence

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<v Speaker 2>of the public in the judiciary and also causes a

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<v Speaker 2>great potential harm to the judges themselves and their families,

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<v Speaker 2>which is just so problematic and never has been seen

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<v Speaker 2>before in this country and shouldn't be tolerated.

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<v Speaker 1>I agree wholeheartedly that nothing along the lines of political

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<v Speaker 1>violence or protesting outside any judges or politicians home. I

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<v Speaker 1>think that's beyond the pale. But where does justifiable criticism

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<v Speaker 1>of a judge come in, Because your point of civic

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<v Speaker 1>discourse is at the core of it when you're talking

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<v Speaker 1>about a decision. And I'm going to use Colorado as

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<v Speaker 1>an example. Our Colorado Supreme Court keeps affirming idiotic laws,

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<v Speaker 1>then we send it to the Supreme Court and they

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<v Speaker 1>get overturned. So if you look at the decisions around

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<v Speaker 1>specific issues in Colorado, whether it's being forced to make

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<v Speaker 1>a cake you don't want to make, or make a website,

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<v Speaker 1>or now we've got, you know type constraints on the

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<v Speaker 1>First Amendment when it comes to counseling people who may

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<v Speaker 1>be struggling with their gender. And yet our Colorado Supreme

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<v Speaker 1>Court keeps getting overturned. So people like me, I look

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<v Speaker 1>at the Colorado Supreme Court and say, what are they doing?

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<v Speaker 1>What they keep getting overturned? So where does criticism, where's

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<v Speaker 1>criticism justified? And where is it obviously for calling for

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<v Speaker 1>any kind of violence that's well beyond the pale, So

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<v Speaker 1>what is justified in that situation?

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<v Speaker 3>You know, the community should speak.

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<v Speaker 2>That's why we're coming to Colorado when we're speaking tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 2>And the fact that our citizens disagree with the decisions

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<v Speaker 2>that have been made. Our judges based their rulings on

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<v Speaker 2>the facts and the laws as it exists today, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's up to the legislature, which unfortunately at the federal level,

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<v Speaker 2>is in a complete.

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<v Speaker 3>Log jam and there's no you know, uh.

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<v Speaker 2>Expectation that they're going to get any better anytime soon. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>which which has put added pressure on both the executive

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<v Speaker 2>and the judicial branches.

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<v Speaker 3>But it's up to the people to speak and to

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<v Speaker 3>change the laws.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's not like the judges that are being criticized,

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<v Speaker 2>have not used the facts of the case and the

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<v Speaker 2>law surrounding it to make their decisions. They may be

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<v Speaker 2>unpopular decisions, and they may be incorrect. They have you know,

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<v Speaker 2>our district judges have been reversed by a Court of

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<v Speaker 2>Appeals and the Supreme Court recently on some important issues.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know that's that's how our system works. So

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<v Speaker 2>unless the laws are changed, the judges are in a

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<v Speaker 2>position where they are required to follow.

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<v Speaker 3>The law even if they don't like it. So what happens?

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<v Speaker 1>What will be the starting point of this conversation? Are

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<v Speaker 1>you guys discussing a specific question or is there kind

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<v Speaker 1>of a jumping off point for tomorrow's event at the

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<v Speaker 1>Sturm College of Law and the University of Denver's campus.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's the the fear now that are the

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<v Speaker 2>of the erosion of people's trust in the judiciary.

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<v Speaker 3>We must have an independent judiciary.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean that goes all the way back to Alexander

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<v Speaker 2>Hamilton saying that only if we have an independent judiciary

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<v Speaker 2>does our legislative and an executive branches uh operate properly.

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<v Speaker 2>But so our starting off, jumping off point is to

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<v Speaker 2>talk about how the erosion has occurred over quite a

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<v Speaker 2>number of years.

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<v Speaker 3>This is nothing uh new.

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<v Speaker 2>UH. That we need an independent judiciary, that the public

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<v Speaker 2>should be educated about what the judges.

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<v Speaker 3>Do and what they don't do. UH.

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<v Speaker 2>And that is, you know, they follow the rule of law,

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<v Speaker 2>which of course you know, means that we look at

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<v Speaker 2>public laws that everyone is aware of, uh, and we

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<v Speaker 2>apply them equally to anyone without regard uh to who

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<v Speaker 2>they are or what their beliefs are. UH. And that uh,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the the uh that rule of laws is followed.

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<v Speaker 3>So you know we've that's our that's our jumping off point.

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<v Speaker 1>Judjo Grady is going to be part of the panel

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<v Speaker 1>discussion tomorrow at five thirty to five thirty to six

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<v Speaker 1>forty five at the Storm College of Law in Room

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<v Speaker 1>one sixty five. And I have written all of this

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<v Speaker 1>on the blog today. If you're driving and you can't

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<v Speaker 1>get that information, it is on today's blog. Judjo Grady,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you so much for your time today and for

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<v Speaker 1>having this conversation. And you know, I agree we've got

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<v Speaker 1>to have an independent judiciary that people can trust or

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<v Speaker 1>otherwise the whole system falls apart. So thanks to you

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<v Speaker 1>for addressing this topic.

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<v Speaker 3>All right, thank you so much, Mandy.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, that is judge oh Grady, you can gain

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<v Speaker 1>go to that event tomorrow night.