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Speaker 1: Today's episode of the trib Cast is sponsored by the

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City of Corpus Christi, Texas Realtors and water Groves. Welcome

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to the trib Cast. I'm Eleanor Clibanoff, women's health reporter.

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I am not the women's health reporter at the Texas

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Tribune anymore.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that is just like muscle memory.

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Speaker 1: I'm Eleanor Klibanoff, as of today, the law and politics

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reporter at the Texas Tribune. Here with my as always

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with my co host, Matthew, editor in chief, still has

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the same job as he did yesterday.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but sometimes I've worked at the Tribune for ten years,

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but sometimes I still almost instinctively tell people that I'm

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a reporter from the Dallas Morning News.

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Speaker 4: So I feel you.

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Speaker 2: That's a deep cut for you, Matthew. Where in the

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world are you, Eleanor.

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Speaker 3: I'm someplace warm. I have a place where the beer

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flows like wine, where beautiful women instinctively flock like the

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salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place like

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called Aspen.

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Speaker 5: Wow.

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Speaker 3: That, by the way, just before I creep anyone out.

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As a quote from Dumb and Dummer, I hope folks

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picked up on that.

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Speaker 4: And I'm not just talking. Yes, I'm an Aspen.

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Speaker 3: I am at a convenient of the American Academy of

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Arts and Sciences. It is almost too beautiful to bear

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out here. I'm angry to be inside recording for these

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forty five minutes and not outside.

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Speaker 6: But yeah, that's what's that. I said. At least you

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have all those plugs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you had everything charging. It's a good chance

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to get charged up before you go back out.

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Speaker 3: And Carlos, I unplugged that before we started recording, and

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I appreciate you bringing it up.

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Speaker 1: We invite you to watch this episode on YouTube and

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you know, see the Matthews plug setup. Well, that sounds great.

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I am glad you're an Aspen. I'm not jealous at all. Actually,

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as we've discussed, I weirdly am going to Aspen in

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a couple of weeks for a different conference. Apparently it's

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real conference season and Aspen.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so. I think so.

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Speaker 3: I think you might be actually coming to the same

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place that I am right now. And I will tell

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you Eleanor it's pretty good.

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Speaker 2: That's great. How are you with the altitude?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing okay, okay, it's my flight in got canceled

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on Sunday night, so I had to spend a night

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in the crappy near the Denver Airport Hotel, which allowed

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me to adjust a little bit more, you know.

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Speaker 2: Gradually to acclimatize.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, when I'm going, I'm going directly from New Orleans,

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which is like the lowest sea level to Aspen, which

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is like the highest, and so I think I might

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die anyway.

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Speaker 4: Drink lots of water.

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Speaker 3: Everyone has been telling me that, They're like, oh, you're

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from Texas, drink lots of water. Well, and then they're

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also like, we we in Colorado hate Texans.

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Speaker 7: So this is a perfect segue to talk about our

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subject of the week, which is, you know, we've jokingly

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been calling this episode infrastructure Week.

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Speaker 1: You know, as most people listening, I presume no. Yesterday

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was sineed. I the last day the legislative session, and

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a lot of times like the stuff that gets the

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biggest headlines or the you know, most the legislators certainly

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enjoy talking about a lot are sort.

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Speaker 2: Of these.

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Speaker 1: Culture war issues or sort of more social socially conservative

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issues obviously gets a lot of airtime, but a lot

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of what Texans care about has to do with our infrastructure,

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Can we keep the lights on? Can we keep water flowing?

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And so we wanted to talk today about what our

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lawmakers did on those issues and what the future of

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life in Texas looks like to do that. We are

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joined by Alejandra Martinez, the Texas Tribunes Environmental Reporter, and

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Carlos Nogeros Ramos, the Texas Tribunes Permian Basin Reporter.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to both of you.

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Speaker 6: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Quite a geographic spread we have.

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Speaker 1: We've got Austin, Fort Worth, Odessa, and Aspith.

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Speaker 8: Yeah yeah, yeah, we are all over.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. Well let's start with water.

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Speaker 1: Hugely important topic this session the Texas Tribune, you know,

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specifically Alejandra, Carlos, your teams, especially with Jamie Lozanocarver. Did

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I believe more almost two dozen stories on the water,

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the state of the state's water systems, a phenomenal project.

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If you guys haven't taken the chance to look at

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these stories, I mean really just so comprehensive and really

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really accessible. It was a huge topic of conversation this session.

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So Ali, why don't you start by telling us why

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why water?

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Speaker 2: And why now? Like why this?

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Speaker 1: Why are we now talking about water. What's the state

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of the crisis.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, not to be an alarmist,

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but I mean in the state, Texas is running out

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of water and pretty fast.

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Speaker 8: There's a lot.

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Speaker 9: Of things threatening our water supply. There are aging pipes

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that are leaking, and that's like old old infrastructure, sometimes

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hundreds of years old, still under the ground and piping

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our water that hasn't been repaired or upgraded. There are

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drought pressures that are only really worsening with climate change.

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And then we have the population growth these booming areas

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across the state. I think DFW is going to need

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more like about half as more as it requires now

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in a couple of years. And so there's all these

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things really squeezing our water resources. And you mentioned the

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series Running Out where we documented all these different aspects

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of what's happening with our water supply and the state

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part of that series, we used state data from the

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Texas Water Development Board to look at what is our

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long term water supply and how long is that gonna last.

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And one instament that showed that Texas towns and cities

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will and I'm saying will not could will face a

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water shortage by twenty thirty, you're talking about five years

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from now. This is if there's a historic drought like

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we saw in the nineteen fifties and if no water

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solutions are implemented.

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Speaker 8: And so water was a.

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Speaker 9: Pretty big deal, and our state leaders took note of that.

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You had Governor Greg Abbott that made water, who made

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water an emergency item and called really early in the

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session for a quote like Texas Wide investment to water.

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And so there were all these different things that people

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were paying attention to and that people had been noticing

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in these last couple of years, with like the intense

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droughts that we've been having across the state, the continuous

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boil water notices that happened because water pressures are down

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doue to old infrastructure, and so really they want really

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this session, they'd geared down and started figuring out.

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Speaker 8: What can we do?

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Speaker 9: And I guess they're so like, where did we end

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up with? Right, you mentioned Siany die was yesterday and

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after a lot of debate and discussion, which we should

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definitely get to later, all the water drama that was

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happening at the Capitol, but the final deal that came

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out would allocate one billion dollars a year starting in

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twenty twenty seven until twenty forty seven to secure the

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state's water supply. That's twenty billion dollar dollars in total,

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and that money would be used for new water quote

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new water supply projects is what they call it, which

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is desalination, which is removing minerals and salt from brackish

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groundwater that's that really salty water. Or another solution is

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repairing old infrastructure conservation and flood mitigation projects. And so

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that one billion dollar will be a ballot amendment measure

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that voters will get to, you know, castor ballots and

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vote on this upcoming November. So that's one piece of

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the bucket. And then the second piece of the bucket

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is a one time investment of two point five billion

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dollars into the water fund that came out of the

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current budget surplus. So you have billions of dollars that

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were secured this session for water.

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Speaker 8: Is that enough? We know that it's not right.

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Speaker 9: There are a lot of of amazing thing tanks like

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Texas twenty thirty six and others that have made.

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Speaker 8: Their estimates of how much is needed.

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Speaker 9: Sometimes I think that estimate's like hundreds of billions of dollars. So,

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but it is one step forward, is what water experts

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and water lobbyists are saying.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I want to drill a little bit deeper into

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that last point that you made. Right, So, the Texas

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twenty thirty six report you're talking about, I'm citing a

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story that you wrote here, was that the state needs

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one hundred and fifty four billion dollars by twenty fifty.

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Speaker 6: Right, So when you.

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Speaker 3: Hear twenty billion dollars plus another two point five you think, wow,

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twenty two point five billion dollars. That's a lot of money,

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But that's a lot less than one hundred and fifty

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billion dollars by twenty fifty. I mean, what's the what's

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the mood among the people who have been calling for this,

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you know, in the.

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Speaker 4: Lead up to this session? Is this is it? Yeah?

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This is great? We did what we need to do.

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Is it okay, this is a good start?

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Speaker 6: Or is it?

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Speaker 4: Oh god?

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Speaker 3: You know this was the big moment when everyone was

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rallied around this and we didn't even you know, get

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to half of what some people said we needed up

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until this time.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, I think the mood is it's a great start.

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I mean a lot of these water experts and lobbyis

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are just, I think, in some ways happy that the

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issues like finally getting attention. You have a senator at

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the capital, Senator Charles Perry, who's been advocating for water money,

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like any funding for water for I think over a decade.

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And so there's been a few number of people who

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have been really pushing for this kind of water investment,

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but it wasn't until like this year that it seemed

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like more people got on board or understood what.

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Speaker 8: Is happening.

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Speaker 9: I think a lot of recent events added to that.

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I mean, I know God Loos who's on this quote too,

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Like he wrote about I don't remember if it was

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Odessa or Milan, but cities in West Texas with continuous

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boiled water notices.

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Speaker 8: Right.

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Speaker 9: So there's like more and more communities facing those immediate

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problems or issues because of our water systems.

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Speaker 8: Right. And so I will note that also last session.

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Speaker 9: There was a dedication for water funding, nothing as big

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as this session, but I think it's like what I'm

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hearing is like these baby steps are what's gonna build

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or get us somewhere bigger.

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Speaker 8: Right. So, although we had one of the what.

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Speaker 9: They're calling the biggest investments for water in Texas history.

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They're gonna come back next session and push for more.

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Speaker 1: And I'm hearing Carlos, I want to ask, like, you're

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in the Permian Basin, like a region that you know,

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as I understand it is really hopefully going to benefit

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from some of this water money. I mean, what's the

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outlook there for water and what are you sort of

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hearing about, uh, you know, how this deal is being

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received in that area.

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Speaker 5: I would agree with Alejandra's assessment that there is a

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lot of buzz and excitement. We will take anything we

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can get. You know, the water boil notices that I

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wrote about was because I lift them.

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Speaker 6: You know, we were without.

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Speaker 5: Water for almost a day, and before I had moved,

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I had moved to Odessa a year before the city

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had been without water for two days, and that was

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an infrastructure issue more than it was a money problem.

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And so, you know, like she said, we you know,

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if there's a solution, we we want because the ones

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we have now are limited. The Texas Water Development Board

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is limited in what the authority it has and the

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and the money it can distribute, and so yeah, it's

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you know, it's it's good news. I would also say

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I covered water from the oil and gas industry standpoint,

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and you know, among among uh these these folks, you know,

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there is a sense that you can't just throw money

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at a problem and expect it to kind of make

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it go away or disappear. And so there was a

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conversation here around what the oil and gas industry could

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contribute into the water dielemma, considering that it's an industry

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that requires so much water to operate and run. And

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as you know, we broke records last year for oil

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and gas production. This year we are set to do

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the same. I mean, we are drilling for so much

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oil and gas, which takes water and so but you know,

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from under the earth also comes water. And you know,

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the question was can can we clean this water or

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can we treat it to a standard that is acceptable

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to the agency and safe for conception. But guess what,

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that's also going to require so much money because it

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takes infrastructure, it takes energy to clean it. And then

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you know, once you do, how do you get it

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to the places where it needs to go? You know,

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do we build pipelines and then do we have a

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workforce that's able to build that, and so it's a

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it's a it's a dilemma with with a lot of

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moving parts, and so certainly people say, you know, this

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is a good start, but certainly nowhere near the finish

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line either.

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Speaker 3: It was interesting, I'll a be there was a lot

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of agreement on the idea that we need to do

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something about water, but there was a lot of disagreement

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in how to go about doing that. I think like

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one of the big questions, right is, if you're going

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to solve the water problems, you can create more supply

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or you can patch up and fix a lot of

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that infrastructure. Right, Like, one of the big issues driving

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this water problem isn't just that we don't have enough water.

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It's that a lot of the water that we have

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is being leaked into the ground via pipes. You know,

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there's Carlos mentioned the problems in Odessa. There's things like

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that happening all over the state. And there seemed to

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be some disagreement among lawmakers right about whether which of

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those two things to invest more in the supply or

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the patching up of the pipes. Can you talk a

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little bit about that conversation and where we landed there.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, this is definitely where the water drama happened.

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Speaker 8: The how are you going to spend this?

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Speaker 9: The allocation of this money, right the leaky pipes versus

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new water supply, which it could include like desalination or

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treating oil field wastewater, that godless is mentioning.

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Speaker 8: And so at the early.

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Speaker 9: Start of the sessions, there were kind of these two

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proposals that were put up, one by Senator Charles Perry

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that kind of divided those buckets of money into an

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eighty twenty split. Eighty percent of that fund would go

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to new water supply projects, desalination, treating oil field wastewater,

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and then the remaining twenty percent would go to everything

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else that includes infrastructure, conservation, water vus aquafer storage, recovery projects.

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So and then the other proposal, which was by Representative

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Cody Harris, kind of made the allocation and said, you know,

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the Texas Water Development Board will know where best to

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spend this money because they're the ones they're the agency

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that have the biggest connection with communities across the state,

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and the Water Board knows best. And so this is

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where that kind of fight over the ratio, the split

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grew more heated and heated over the course of the session.

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We had water experts and lobbyists at first being kind

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of hesitant to speak speak for or against that ratio

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or split in fear that you know, speaking about it

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would put in jeopardy any type of water funding.

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Speaker 8: Right. These are people that are finally like, yay, we're.

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Speaker 9: Finally talking about water funding, and you know, if we

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say the wrong thing, maybe everything will come undone and

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no more water funding. So but as the session you know, progressed,

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and they saw that, you know, these bills weren't coming

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out of committee, or they were being delayed on the process,

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or they weren't getting put on the House or Senate floor,

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more and more of them started speak up against and

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and it was and when they spoke up, it was

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against this eighty twenty ratio, led by their quote water

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champion Senator Charles Perry, who finally put.

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Speaker 8: Water on the map at the Capitol. And so it was,

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it was very it was.

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Speaker 9: It required a lot of conversation with different people because

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so many of them were at many times hesitant to

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go on the record because of what I just explained.

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Putting water funding in jeopardy, but knew that or they

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felt that that split wasn't the best because they were

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very concerned about, why are we going to start creating

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new water supply right when we haven't fixed our infrastructure,

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so we're just gonna pump more water for it to

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leak out of our aging pipes. It just they didn't

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agree with that approach, and so so what we ended

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up with, or what they ended up with and landed at,

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was that a fifty to fifty split.

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Speaker 8: So the first half of the money would go to

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all of the projects.

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Speaker 9: Conservation water we use, dsal of seawater, brackish ground water,

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and developing reservoirs, and then the remaining would go to

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the Water Development Board, which what we heard has identified

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a number of projects that already need that money, and

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they will determine which of those projects will get it.

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I think a lot of people are interested on like

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what projects end up getting that money after that really

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like back and forth debate over new water and infrastructure,

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and that's what we'll have to see in the next

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couple of years as that money starts rolling out.

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Speaker 1: And all hundred just sort of to tie up this issue,

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it now will go to the voters, right, and yeah,

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I mean, do they anticipate this will pass? Like it

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seems like an issue people are sort of generally supportive of,

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but it's a pretty big price tag.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, I think there have been a couple of surveys

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that were done ahead of session of do voters want

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more money to go towards water? And I think and

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overwhelmingly so, they were overwhelmingly supportive of that. The people

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that they that these organizations surveyed, and based on conversations

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I've been having, there are no worries there. But we'll see,

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you know, we'll see when the election comes around.

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Speaker 4: It's a slam dunk, it'll pass.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a certainly feels like a thing people are.

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It's very tangible to be like, you know, do you

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want to be able to have water? It's hard to

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vote no on that, though some people, I'm sure find

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a way. Well, let's take a quick break and think

357
00:20:59,559 --> 00:21:03,440
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364
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365
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watergrows dot org. Well, let's turn out to the other

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major issue that gets people a little stressed out, which

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is the grid and our energy infrastructure.

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Speaker 3: I would just like to just to say that there

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are way more than two of issues that get people.

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Speaker 1: Two issues that stress Texans out. Survey says only two.

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Everyone is so calm about everything else. No one is

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freaking out about th HC or bail or you know

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anything else.

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Speaker 4: Sorry, mess up your flow.

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Speaker 2: Fine.

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Speaker 1: Texas is expecting well, let me say this, if you're

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not freaking out about the grid, stand by uh. Texas

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is expecting the state's energy demand to double in the

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next six years. Uh, it's really unclear for we'll be

384
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able to sort of meet that demand and keep up

385
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with with that. This was such a huge issue on

386
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people's minds. You know, when we had winter storm or Yuri.

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I was I say winterstorm Uri.

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Speaker 3: Anyways, so they had the freeze. I don't mean the

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name Uri is faked, to be clear, I mean calling

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winter storms names of shakes.

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Speaker 1: The freeze of twenty twenty one in the middle of session,

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you know, put this issue really in the spotlight. Carlos,

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I know you've been covering this sort of whole infrastructure

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of the energy infrastructure. How big of an issue was

395
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this for lawmakers this session?

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Speaker 5: First, I just have to say I'm glad we're having

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this conversation now because I'm working on my story that

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I have to file, and it'll be nice to have

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this fresh in my mind. And maybe I'll just take

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what I said here and just put it into words

401
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and be done.

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Speaker 6: With my story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, brainstorm out loud.

404
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Speaker 4: I want to contributor to tag on the site exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the trade cast contributed.

406
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Speaker 5: A couple bylines here. Yes, a pretty substantial deal, I

407
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would say. Ever since twenty twenty one, grit catastrophe the

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Texas experienced I think kind of inspired a sense that

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the legislature needed to do something about grid, something that

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had not significantly acted on before twenty twenty one. And

411
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the question, you know, the central question became, how do

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we keep people's lights on when this happens again in

413
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twenty twenty one. Immediately following Yurea, I was just talking

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about this with Pat Wood, who's the former chairman of

415
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the Public Utility Commission, And immediately after twenty twenty one,

416
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it was a response plan, you know, how do we

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fix what's broken now? And then in the twenty twenty

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three session is how do we encourage more more infrastructure

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because if you don't know this, we have an energy

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only market in Texas, which excuse me, an open energy

421
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market in Texas, which means that power generators to people

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who give us the resources that convert into electricity what

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we call megawats or gigawatts. The natural gas plants, wind

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and solar farms, battery storage needed to shore up infrastructure

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right so that they can meet the demand. So how

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do we as a legislature speed that up? And so

427
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we came with a couple of ideas. Some worked others didn't.

428
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There were there were some performance credits that were floated

429
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around that ultimately fell through. And then we had the

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Texas Energy Fund, which had five billion dollars injected into

431
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it in twenty twenty three and it all went to

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natural gas infrastructure. Those plants are years away from being built,

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and you know, through all of these short term solutions,

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the question still was how do we make the grid reliable?

435
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Because so far the answers that we have are very

436
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very far away down the timeline. Meanwhile, guess what's happening.

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Texas is growing. We have people moving here, businesses want

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to come here. We are becoming a hub for data centers.

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And so for the legislature, you know, now it wasn't

440
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just a question, it's can we UH ensure that the

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grid is reliable without blocking business development? You know, can

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we still assure people that Texas is a place that

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you can come tap into our grid and we won't

444
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put too many hurdles UH to do that. And so

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that's what UH. That was the that was at the

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center of or at least my coverage. Senate Bill six UH,

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sponsored by State Senator King Phil King, you know, puts

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UH wide in place wide ranging rules around energy use,

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energy users, particularly the industrial customers. I'm talking manufacturing plants,

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you know, oil and gas plans, you know, hospitals for example,

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big data centers, people who just suck up.

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Speaker 6: A lot of a lot of the energy, a lot

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a lot of new rules there.

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Speaker 5: Ericot for example, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, you

455
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know how now has the latitude to to shut off

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power to plans over seventy five megawatts. So if you're

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a mom and pop, that doesn't apply to you. Just

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want to make that really clear. But you know, this

459
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is this is unprecedented, it's it's very new. It gives

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us a lot of unilateral authority. And there's this course

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language that was put in there to make people a

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little bit more comfortable around the concept. But it's still

463
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needing the remote disconnection or what people avoid calling the

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kill switch.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 5: There was also a big question around if you know,

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we're going to grow as a state and we're going

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to deliver the nearly double amount of electricity that you

469
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mentioned earlier, who is going.

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Speaker 6: To pay for that?

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Speaker 5: You know, who's going to pick up the tab? Because

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for that we need to build infrastructure to deliver electricity,

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and usually the people who end up paying for that

474
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is everyone on this call, you know, the everyday electricity

475
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user transmission costs. That's how they're allocated. And so in

476
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this bill, you know, there were questions about, you know,

477
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can these can these industrial facilities put a little bit

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more money up front so that in the long term

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it doesn't run at the tab on our utility bills.

480
00:28:07,519 --> 00:28:09,759
So that's just one of many things. I mean, I

481
00:28:09,839 --> 00:28:12,200
have like a whole page of notes, but that that

482
00:28:12,319 --> 00:28:14,119
was like the kicker I think for this session as

483
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,880
far as energy is concerned. And then of course something

484
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,680
that never misses in Texas is the politics of renewable

485
00:28:19,759 --> 00:28:23,720
energy and how much we want them to be here, right.

486
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the Senate Bill six, I mean obviously

487
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,599
a very high priority number or a low number of

488
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:36,200
high priority pretty surprise, like Texas famously very anti regulation,

489
00:28:36,519 --> 00:28:40,960
anti you know, sort of putting these sort of rules

490
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,720
in place for businesses and major manufacturers and things like that.

491
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: How was that.

492
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: Received by like the business world, let's say.

493
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 5: A lot of trepidation around the specifics. I think something

494
00:28:58,039 --> 00:29:01,480
everyone agrees on is that the grid needs to be

495
00:29:01,519 --> 00:29:05,839
more reliable, that benefits everybody in the long term, you know,

496
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,359
when when there's another Yuri, which will happen. To be clear,

497
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,839
everyone needs to have wants to have electricity. But but

498
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,400
the devil was in the details for for a lot

499
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,240
of these for a lot of these folks, and and

500
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,200
there was concern around you know, you can't just shut

501
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,799
us off like that. And then if you if you

502
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,039
just say, like for example, it only applies to facilities

503
00:29:30,039 --> 00:29:32,079
of seventy five mega Watson Apple, that could be a

504
00:29:32,079 --> 00:29:34,240
hospital too, So are you're shutting off a hospital if

505
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:38,079
you if the grid needs to reroute electricity elsewhere, And

506
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,440
so I think for folks it comes down to the rulemaking.

507
00:29:41,559 --> 00:29:43,559
So what that means is that the agency is involved

508
00:29:43,559 --> 00:29:46,319
in us in this. The Public Utility Commission will need

509
00:29:46,359 --> 00:29:48,160
to come up with the specifics and I think in

510
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,160
the coming months that's uh, that's where the conversation will

511
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,400
play out. But coming back to your question, I'm sorry,

512
00:29:55,519 --> 00:29:57,240
a bit of a tangent. They're coming back to your question.

513
00:29:57,319 --> 00:29:59,720
I yeah, a lot of a lot of trepidation around

514
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,480
the remote disconnection, you know, the red tape. There were

515
00:30:03,559 --> 00:30:06,400
questions about whether you know it's this helping costs is

516
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,720
this helping reliability you know, business arrangements between a natural

517
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,119
gas plant and a data center. You know, er Cotton

518
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,680
now has oversight over that, and so for folks it's

519
00:30:15,799 --> 00:30:18,400
you know, how does that help you know, the residential

520
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,599
consumer in the long run when this is an individual

521
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,240
business agreement. But I think ultimately people were you know,

522
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,920
amenable to are amicable to the idea of a bill

523
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:30,799
that gives the grid more security.

524
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean ultimately what I think, correct me if

525
00:30:34,039 --> 00:30:36,799
I'm wrong, Carlos was driving a lot of this fear. Right,

526
00:30:36,839 --> 00:30:40,640
It was specifically the addition to the grid, the projections

527
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,480
of editions of data centers, bitcoin miners, and a lot

528
00:30:44,519 --> 00:30:49,759
of these sort of new technology uses, you know, where

529
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,720
in some cases the state really wants to attract this right.

530
00:30:52,559 --> 00:30:54,839
Speaker 4: We want to be a leader in AI. We want you.

531
00:30:54,799 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 3: Know, a lot of our state leaders have really kind

532
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:02,200
of extended a hand to the crypto industry and everything

533
00:31:02,279 --> 00:31:06,839
like that. But the just massive amounts of power that

534
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:12,319
those facilities require was scary to a lot of people,

535
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,319
particularly to a lot of politicians who I think felt

536
00:31:17,079 --> 00:31:20,480
no stronger blowback in the past few years than what

537
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,279
happened in that twenty twenty one winter storm and a

538
00:31:23,359 --> 00:31:26,160
feeling like if we go through something like that again.

539
00:31:26,599 --> 00:31:29,720
And the reason we went through it was because Texas

540
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,480
sort of just rolled out the red carpet to these

541
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:38,160
massive industrial uses that don't really individually create you know,

542
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,480
there's not a lot of people actually working in those facilities, right,

543
00:31:41,519 --> 00:31:44,720
and there's a lot of skepticism around, you know, particularly

544
00:31:44,759 --> 00:31:48,359
the crypto industry, that they need to be able to

545
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,079
do something to avoid that because you know, among the

546
00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:54,480
things they're going to piss off their voters the most

547
00:31:54,559 --> 00:31:55,000
would be.

548
00:31:57,039 --> 00:31:59,079
Speaker 4: Allowing something like that to happen again.

549
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:01,839
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.

550
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 5: The driver of this conversation was the forecast that came

551
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,200
out that you know, put out us a number that

552
00:32:07,319 --> 00:32:10,039
scared everyone and said, well, you know, how.

553
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,319
Speaker 6: Do we respond to this? Uh?

554
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,839
Speaker 5: You know, twenty years ago we broke up monopolies. Uh,

555
00:32:16,359 --> 00:32:20,799
and and that move, you know, gave out a you

556
00:32:20,799 --> 00:32:23,279
know what they call it market signal for people to

557
00:32:23,319 --> 00:32:25,519
come here and do and do business. But then it

558
00:32:25,599 --> 00:32:29,000
started straining us in other ways. So how, you know,

559
00:32:29,039 --> 00:32:32,039
how do we come up with a political response to this?

560
00:32:32,119 --> 00:32:36,799
What is what is the appropriate amount of policy? But yes,

561
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,559
that was data centers and the oil and gas industry

562
00:32:39,799 --> 00:32:42,160
were absolutely what drove the conversation.

563
00:32:41,759 --> 00:32:42,559
Speaker 6: In this session.

564
00:32:44,839 --> 00:32:45,799
Speaker 2: Matthew, where did you go.

565
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 4: Housekeeping? From my hotel? I was knocking down the door.

566
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,880
I tried to make it smooth, but.

567
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,319
Speaker 2: Thank you figure out I had to know. I had

568
00:32:57,319 --> 00:32:57,559
to know.

569
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think that's all really, I think, Matthew,

570
00:33:01,839 --> 00:33:04,000
that's a very strong point too, about like also just

571
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,880
the timing of the storm being like in the middle

572
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,519
of a session. I think about I was not here

573
00:33:08,559 --> 00:33:10,839
in twenty twenty one, but like I arrived, not why

574
00:33:11,279 --> 00:33:14,079
I arrived not long after the storm, and just the

575
00:33:14,119 --> 00:33:16,680
way that like now like people everyday Texans like know

576
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,519
what Urkot is and have an opinion on it is

577
00:33:19,559 --> 00:33:23,240
so telling of like you never want to have to

578
00:33:23,359 --> 00:33:26,079
know what Urkot is. Like in an ideal world, I

579
00:33:26,079 --> 00:33:28,200
think Urkott would prefer that nobody knows what they are

580
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,119
or what they do, just because like that means things

581
00:33:30,119 --> 00:33:32,039
are probably working the way they're supposed to. And so

582
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:37,880
now you know a lot of scrutiny in recent years as.

583
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 3: Can we talk just briefly about what if anything the

584
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,400
legislature did related to green energy? I mean One of

585
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:49,359
my favorite topics is this sort of contrast right where

586
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:54,839
state leaders have largely been opposed to the idea of,

587
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,079
you know, really pushing and incentivizing green energy, while at

588
00:33:59,079 --> 00:34:02,839
the same time, Texas has seen a massive increase in

589
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:07,880
green energy energy production, far out pacing places like California

590
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,880
where there seems to be a much more political will

591
00:34:12,079 --> 00:34:17,480
to to grow that. How has that industry come out

592
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:18,199
of this session?

593
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:23,519
Speaker 6: Do you think unscathed? I will say it's funny.

594
00:34:23,639 --> 00:34:26,559
Speaker 5: One of the things that I was talking to Doug

595
00:34:26,679 --> 00:34:29,199
Lewin about, the author of the Texas Power and Energy

596
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,880
newsletter and an expert in this industry, is that the

597
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,599
this session wasn't defined not UH was defined not only

598
00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:40,760
by what passed, but also by what didn't. Like the

599
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:47,199
last session, there there were bills targeting renewables UH directly,

600
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,519
for example, a repeat of Senator Lewis cole course UH

601
00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:55,280
looking to put a lot of red tape on renewable

602
00:34:55,519 --> 00:34:59,559
energy development. You know, the way renewable energy has has

603
00:34:59,639 --> 00:35:03,000
done so well in Texas is because you can just

604
00:35:03,039 --> 00:35:05,880
go up to a private property owner, come up with

605
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,880
a business arrangement, set up a royalty system, a payout

606
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,400
for that person and then you just put your uh,

607
00:35:13,519 --> 00:35:16,079
you know, your window solar farm there so long as

608
00:35:16,079 --> 00:35:19,280
you can follow the rules around that. And there are

609
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:25,280
also federal stipulations in that. But Senator col course did

610
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,800
not like that they expanded really fast and thought that

611
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:34,519
it merited a little bit more scrutiny, uh.

612
00:35:34,159 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 6: Which garnered a lot of backlash for the renewable energy industry,

613
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:38,119
as you can imagine.

614
00:35:38,159 --> 00:35:41,760
Speaker 5: I mean, they essentially said it would kill them and

615
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,920
they wouldn't grow nearly as well as as they did.

616
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,280
And it's been an interesting political response to an industry

617
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:55,599
that you know, contributed uh megawatts. We didn't have outages

618
00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:00,639
last summer because our storage and generating capacity, you know,

619
00:36:00,639 --> 00:36:03,559
the amount of energy we were able to harbor was

620
00:36:03,559 --> 00:36:07,639
was more and it helped make the grid reliable. But

621
00:36:07,679 --> 00:36:11,000
of course the politics of a Republican state play into that.

622
00:36:11,039 --> 00:36:14,079
You know, we're really resentful of the federal subsidies that

623
00:36:14,119 --> 00:36:16,880
renewable has gone at the at the federal level, even

624
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,199
though Texas hasn't you know, given a single set to

625
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:24,440
renewable energy. But but there was anyway, the response to

626
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:29,440
to renewables in the session was what you would expect, uh,

627
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,559
In large part because of the politics, but also because lawmakers.

628
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 6: Are you okay on.

629
00:36:34,519 --> 00:36:37,599
Speaker 2: Are you ironically like the lights have gone off in here?

630
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 6: Lights are off?

631
00:36:38,559 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 4: Which I asked Rob to do that after you were

632
00:36:42,199 --> 00:36:46,079
making funny No, I didn't, but I wish I had.

633
00:36:47,559 --> 00:36:48,639
Speaker 8: We talk about energy.

634
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,519
Speaker 2: That's so funny, crazy timing.

635
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,639
Speaker 1: There, all right, for those not watching at home or

636
00:36:58,679 --> 00:37:00,519
those not watching on YouTube. Also lights went off for

637
00:37:00,559 --> 00:37:01,599
a minute, they came back.

638
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,559
Speaker 3: Look, you know we've we've all worked a lot these

639
00:37:05,639 --> 00:37:07,119
last few days, were retired.

640
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 6: You know, it's lights out for all of.

641
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:12,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and that's yeah, that's a sign.

642
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 5: But then what I was going to add is that,

643
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,639
you know, for lawmakers, it was also there was also

644
00:37:18,679 --> 00:37:25,960
a sense of uh, strengthening what they call dispatchable, which

645
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,599
is just the traditional forms of energy, so think natural gas, coal,

646
00:37:29,679 --> 00:37:32,559
and now battery storage. It's kind of in that definition

647
00:37:33,079 --> 00:37:35,199
as well. You know, they wanted to make sure the

648
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,639
grid could rely just as much on those energy sources

649
00:37:39,679 --> 00:37:42,880
as much as as wind and solar. But they but

650
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,199
in doing so, they kind of singled out renewable energy

651
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:50,679
and tried to force them out of the definition of dispatchable,

652
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,360
which you know, in one bill, they would have been

653
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,559
punished if they couldn't come up with natural gas plants

654
00:37:56,559 --> 00:37:58,960
as backups to the wind and solar farms. And in

655
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:04,400
another bill, if the grid wasn't needing fifty percent of

656
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:11,400
its energy source from dispatchable energy, the renewable companies would

657
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,719
have to pay a credit to kind of make sure

658
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:18,719
the economics of that were evened out. But yeah, I

659
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,960
mean it comes down to the politics of this. We

660
00:38:22,119 --> 00:38:26,159
like certain sources of energy. We are a proud oil

661
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,840
and gas state that also just happens to have a

662
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:34,519
really strong renewable energy industry, and it's you know, who

663
00:38:34,559 --> 00:38:37,159
do we favor and how do we go about that?

664
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,679
And does everybody have a place in the open market.

665
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,599
I think in the policy it kind of says it, right, No,

666
00:38:45,159 --> 00:38:48,679
they don't. It's the sources that we would prefer that

667
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,559
make us more comfortable for the grid's reliability.

668
00:38:52,679 --> 00:38:55,519
Speaker 2: I think not, unlike water, going to continue to be.

669
00:38:55,519 --> 00:39:00,119
Speaker 1: Like a major political issue going forward for future sessions.

670
00:39:00,559 --> 00:39:03,599
Sounds like, you know, some a lot of movement this session,

671
00:39:03,639 --> 00:39:07,159
but nothing really permanently resolved in any way that will

672
00:39:07,199 --> 00:39:09,639
you know, allow lawmakers to stop talking about the grid

673
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:11,639
as much as I'm sure some of them probably want to.

674
00:39:13,119 --> 00:39:15,679
Speaker 2: Well, let's leave it there. That's it for today.

675
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 1: You can find all episodes of the Tribecast on YouTube

676
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,400
or wherever you find your podcasts. Be sure to like, subscribe,

677
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,480
and share the podcast on all of your platforms. If

678
00:39:23,519 --> 00:39:24,920
you'd like to get in touch with the team, you

679
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,599
can reach us at Tribecast at Texastribune dot org. Thank

680
00:39:28,639 --> 00:39:31,639
you to our sponsors City of Corpus Christi, Texas Realtors

681
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,360
and Water Grows. Thank you so much to Alejandra and

682
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,079
Carlos for joining us, and if once again, if you

683
00:39:38,119 --> 00:39:41,920
haven't already, check out their series on Water and Carlos

684
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,239
is really great coverage of the the fights over you know,

685
00:39:45,679 --> 00:39:49,559
the grid reliability during the session. Our producers are Rob

686
00:39:49,559 --> 00:39:52,119
Avila and Chris Spovida. Our theme music is composed by

687
00:39:52,199 --> 00:40:04,320
Rob and we will see you next week.