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Small died in one of the 33 00:01:45.640 --> 00:01:50.120 most terrific ways a person can die, being buried alive. 34 00:01:50.439 --> 00:01:53.879 He was one of the richest men in Kankakee, Illinois, 35 00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:57.200 in nineteen eighty seven, which made him the target of 36 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:00.200 a desperate cocaine dealer who wanted to collect a million 37 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:06.120 dollar ransom. Everything went tragically wrong. Danny Edwards was caught, convicted, 38 00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:09.759 and was sentenced to death. His life was spared after 39 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:12.879 all death sentences were commuted to life in prison by 40 00:02:12.919 --> 00:02:17.000 Governor George Ryan. A conviction of Danny Edwards was a 41 00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:21.000 sure thing. However, political pressure the Small family was at 42 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:25.960 the top of kankkin Key's powerful elite, brought in the 43 00:02:25.960 --> 00:02:29.199 top prosecutors in the state so that they could use 44 00:02:29.319 --> 00:02:33.879 Edward's case against his girlfriend, Nancy Rish. Their case against 45 00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:37.680 her was flimsy at best. Every piece of forensic evidence 46 00:02:37.719 --> 00:02:40.719 at the trial cleared Nancy Rish. Not one piece of 47 00:02:40.759 --> 00:02:44.280 evidence and not one witness testimony proved her guilt, but 48 00:02:44.360 --> 00:02:47.879 she was convicted on the conjecture and false assertions of 49 00:02:47.919 --> 00:02:51.479 the prosecutors. There was no more evidence against her than 50 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:54.919 the supposition that she had to know what Edwards was planning. 51 00:02:55.400 --> 00:02:59.000 Every public defender and lawyer refused to defend her because 52 00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:03.240 of alleged conflict or fear of the local powers. Everything 53 00:03:03.319 --> 00:03:06.520 was set up to railroad this woman into prison. She 54 00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:09.360 did not get a fair trial. She didn't stand a chance. 55 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:12.919 If Danny Edwards had picked any other victim, his girlfriend 56 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:18.159 never would have been prosecuted. Nancy Rish got small justice. 57 00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:21.560 Nancy Rish is innocent. Danny Edwards did not cooperate with 58 00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:23.960 the police, and he never talked about the details of 59 00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:28.159 his crime until now. Danny Edwards and Nancy Rish have 60 00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:31.719 given their first in depth interviews from prison to author 61 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:35.639 Jim Ridings for this book. The incredible story and previously 62 00:03:35.800 --> 00:03:39.199 unknown background details are told here for the first time. 63 00:03:39.639 --> 00:03:42.479 This is not just the story of a sensational kidnapping 64 00:03:42.520 --> 00:03:45.759 and murder, is also the story of how a corrupt 65 00:03:45.800 --> 00:03:49.199 system was able to convict an innocent woman and send 66 00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:51.960 her to prison for life. The book that were featuring 67 00:03:51.960 --> 00:03:56.080 This evening is Small Justice with my special guest journalist 68 00:03:56.120 --> 00:04:00.120 and author Jim Ridings. Welcome back to the program. Thank 69 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:03.000 you very much for this interview. Jim Ridings, Thank you, Dan, 70 00:04:03.159 --> 00:04:05.800 thank you so much for this interview. Let's start off 71 00:04:05.879 --> 00:04:11.680 with introducing Steven Small and the Small family and what 72 00:04:11.759 --> 00:04:15.680 is their importance in kanka Key, Illinois. 73 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:19.120 Well, all has happened in Kanka Key, which is a 74 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:21.879 city of about twenty seven thousand people about an hour 75 00:04:22.040 --> 00:04:25.759 south of Chicago. The Small family has been the most 76 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:29.160 prominent family in Kanka Kee for more about one hundred years. 77 00:04:29.279 --> 00:04:33.319 Stephen Small's great grandfather was Len Small, who was governor 78 00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:36.360 of Illinois for eight years in nineteen twenty. He was 79 00:04:36.399 --> 00:04:40.000 the most corrupt politician the state had ever seen. Connected 80 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:43.639 to Clamho, connected to Alcopoon, and so on and so forth. 81 00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:47.519 The family used the bill gotten games to buy farm 82 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:50.959 and newspapers, radio stations. They owned the daily paper in 83 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:54.759 kanka Keek. Stephen Small, as I said, is the great grandson. 84 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:56.879 He was worth tens of millions. 85 00:04:57.319 --> 00:04:58.199 All the Small part. 86 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:03.160 This may him a target or somebody who wanted to kidnap. 87 00:05:03.319 --> 00:05:07.920 Now, speaking of that, let's introduce Danny Edwards and what 88 00:05:08.040 --> 00:05:12.959 were his criminal charges in April nineteen eighty seven, conditions 89 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:16.199 of his sentence, and the arrangement he had with authorities 90 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:16.839 as a result. 91 00:05:17.079 --> 00:05:20.920 Danny Edwards was a longtime drug dealer. He had been 92 00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:24.360 busted in early nineteen eighty seven. He faced after thirty 93 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:28.240 years in prison, but the authorities wanted to get a 94 00:05:28.360 --> 00:05:32.600 higher up drug dealer. They focused on somebody named Mitch Levitt. 95 00:05:33.079 --> 00:05:35.319 They made a deal with Danny. They say, we'll give 96 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:38.519 you probation if you help us bust Levitt, if you 97 00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:42.800 give us the name of a number of customers, and 98 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:45.439 if you help us side out who was leaking information 99 00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:48.319 from the courthouse. Danny did give them the names of 100 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:51.639 eighteen people and what they bought. He agreed to set 101 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:56.040 up Mitch Levitt. They met at a place near Chicago 102 00:05:56.399 --> 00:05:59.680 where Danny was supposed to buy a certain amount of cocaine. 103 00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:04.199 To Levitt, was was smart. He knew that something was up. 104 00:06:04.279 --> 00:06:06.720 Danny had a cut on his face and Mitch thought 105 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:09.279 maybe the police had gotten him and beat him up 106 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:13.560 a little bit. And Danny also had undercover policeman waiting 107 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:17.319 outside in the car, so Levitt wouldn't deal with them 108 00:06:17.319 --> 00:06:20.399 he just walked out. Well, Danny failed to set the 109 00:06:20.439 --> 00:06:24.240 guy up, but they still gave him probation anyway, because 110 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:27.399 that was part of the deal. They kept to the deal, 111 00:06:27.879 --> 00:06:30.199 but Danny wasn't going to deal any more drugs for 112 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:31.879 a while because he knew he was going to go 113 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:34.040 away for a long time and he got caught. So 114 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:39.600 he decided to that he would kidnap mister Small, one 115 00:06:39.639 --> 00:06:42.800 of the wealthiest men in Yanky Tee and most politically 116 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:46.079 powerful men. He would kidnap him to hold him for 117 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:49.600 a million dollar grants. He spent months working on this plan. 118 00:06:50.040 --> 00:06:52.279 It didn't have much thought to it. He got some 119 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:56.079 wood and he started building a flywood box. The attention 120 00:06:56.319 --> 00:06:57.959 was that he was going to go out to the 121 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:01.959 sand hill, the wooded sand hill outside of town, dig 122 00:07:01.959 --> 00:07:04.600 a hole and put the box in, kidnapped mistress Ball 123 00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:07.360 and take him out and put him in the box 124 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:10.560 and cover it up and then make some make some calls. 125 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:11.399 And that's what he did. 126 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:16.240 Let's talk about Nancy Rish and her relationship with Danny Edwards. 127 00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:20.279 Tell us the living situation at this time in September 128 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:23.839 nineteen eighty seven. But tell us go backwards and tell 129 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:26.079 us a little bit about the relationship and how you 130 00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:28.360 would characterize it, and tell us a little bit more 131 00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:30.279 about Nancy Rish Well. 132 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:33.199 Danny and Nancy had met in the bar and he 133 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:36.160 pursued her. She held him off for a while, but 134 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:39.839 eventually eventually she gave them. Danny ended up divorcing his 135 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:42.959 wife and Danny and Nancy moved in, but they had 136 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:48.279 problems and they were not exactly getting along, so Danny. 137 00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:51.480 After the drug bust, Danny set Nancy up in the 138 00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:55.279 townhouse and he continued to live in the house where 139 00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:58.160 they had lived. Because he had no more money coming 140 00:07:58.199 --> 00:08:01.839 in drug deal, he could afford to pay for both late. 141 00:08:02.079 --> 00:08:05.879 So since he was paying for Nancy's townhouse, he told 142 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:08.800 her he wanted to move in. She could hardly say 143 00:08:08.800 --> 00:08:11.000 no that he was he was paying the bill, so 144 00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:11.759 he moved in. 145 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:16.759 Let's talk about this kidnapping that you talked about that 146 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:20.639 Danny Edwards had planned, maybe not planned so well or 147 00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:23.839 but he had planned this for many, many months. He 148 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:27.319 built the box with the assistant of Nancy's cousin, who 149 00:08:27.399 --> 00:08:30.519 he was at least pretending to work for once in 150 00:08:30.519 --> 00:08:33.799 a while. But he had much in terms of skills. 151 00:08:34.360 --> 00:08:38.559 But you talk about September second, nineteen eighty seven, which 152 00:08:38.600 --> 00:08:41.960 was a Wednesday, and Stephen Small was asleep with his 153 00:08:42.039 --> 00:08:45.080 wife Nancy when the phone rang at twelve thirty am. 154 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:49.360 Their fifteen year old son Ramsey answered the phone. Tell 155 00:08:49.440 --> 00:08:51.200 us about this phone call. 156 00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:55.120 Yeah, this was just after midnight, the son answered the phone. 157 00:08:55.519 --> 00:08:58.120 Man on the phone said that this is Officer so 158 00:08:58.200 --> 00:09:01.600 and so. That can't be police department. There's been a 159 00:09:01.639 --> 00:09:04.559 buglary at your father's place of business. He needs to 160 00:09:04.600 --> 00:09:07.600 come down. The son said, is this important. They've gone 161 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:09.519 to bed. He said, yes, this is important. I need 162 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:12.360 to talk. The son put Stephen on the line and 163 00:09:12.399 --> 00:09:15.480 the man on the phone said, this is a department. 164 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:17.360 You need to come down here and the sear of 165 00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:21.120 the building and identify the item stolen. So mister Small 166 00:09:21.159 --> 00:09:24.200 got dressed and he went outside. He opened the garage. 167 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:27.279 He got in his Mercedes. The man on the phone 168 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:29.600 was not a policeman. It was Danny Edward. He was 169 00:09:29.679 --> 00:09:31.919 posing as a policeman to get mister Fall to come 170 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:34.279 out of the house. When mister Small got in the car, 171 00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:37.080 Danny got on the other side, pointed a gun at 172 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:40.080 him and said let's go. So add mister Small drive 173 00:09:40.120 --> 00:09:43.000 out of town to this wooded area in the sandhill. 174 00:09:43.159 --> 00:09:47.080 He forced mister Small to make a tape recording telling 175 00:09:47.120 --> 00:09:49.919 his wife that he'd been kidnapped and they wanted money. 176 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:50.759 These are the. 177 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:53.840 Instruction and so on and so forth. Then after he 178 00:09:53.960 --> 00:09:57.519 made the tape, Danny Edwards forced mister Small into the 179 00:09:57.519 --> 00:10:00.360 wooden box to the end the ground. He then the 180 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:03.320 lid on the box and covered it with sand. Then 181 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:06.879 Danny went. He ran maybe a half mile or a 182 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:09.799 mile or shelf to a point where he had told 183 00:10:10.120 --> 00:10:13.200 Nancy to pick him up at a certain time, and 184 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:13.879 then he went home. 185 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:18.080 Now tell us about what happens at the Small residence 186 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:21.399 and the phone call they received and its contents. 187 00:10:21.639 --> 00:10:23.519 Well, he had gotten mister Small out of the house 188 00:10:23.720 --> 00:10:27.679 after midnight, about three thirty am, Danny called the Small 189 00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:30.159 house and talked to missus Small and said, we have 190 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:33.240 your husband. We've kidnapped him. We want a million dollars 191 00:10:33.639 --> 00:10:36.000 and I will call you and let you know about 192 00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:39.559 the detail. Well, she called family member and they called 193 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:43.360 with their lawyer, and they called the police. And since 194 00:10:43.399 --> 00:10:46.399 it was a kidnapping, the FBI was called, and the 195 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:49.200 FBI came to the house, and they set up surveillance, 196 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:52.039 and they set up a wire camp in case Edwards 197 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:53.039 would call back again. 198 00:10:53.279 --> 00:10:55.679 Now, what were the We just didn't mention this, but 199 00:10:55.919 --> 00:10:58.559 this box that he was placed in and in sand 200 00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:02.919 give us more about theccommodations that were made by Danny 201 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:06.360 Edwards when he put Steven Small in this box and 202 00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:09.159 what he told them in terms of when he likely 203 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:12.039 would be out of this box, and what he did 204 00:11:12.039 --> 00:11:12.600 he provide. 205 00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:15.080 It was quite a large box. It was not well 206 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:17.559 made because he didn't have any kind of a skill, 207 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:19.960 and it took him weeks. Anybody else could have made 208 00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:21.759 the box could have nailed it back up in two 209 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:25.039 days less, it took Danny weeks. And even so it 210 00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:27.559 wasn't a well made. He had a light in the 211 00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:30.240 box hooked up to a car battery. He had some 212 00:11:30.279 --> 00:11:33.799 candy bars. He filled an old milk jug with cap water, 213 00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:36.759 and he told mister Small the pipe coming out of 214 00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:39.519 the side of the box would provide enough air for 215 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:42.480 two days. I guess mister Small believed him. This got 216 00:11:42.519 --> 00:11:44.440 in the box, he would put the fight and then 217 00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:47.720 Danny covered up the box and he left what he 218 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:50.799 called at three thirty. All this was set in motion, 219 00:11:51.080 --> 00:11:53.320 and he said he would call back that afternoon. He 220 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:56.120 did call back about five pm, and he went to 221 00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:59.159 a nearby town and he paid well. The FBI had 222 00:11:59.159 --> 00:12:01.360 a PAF on the phone, so they were able to 223 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:04.559 tell where the phone call was coming from. And Danny 224 00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:06.840 said he would call back again that evening, and he did. 225 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:09.720 The FBI staked out that phone call. So this town 226 00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:13.200 is so small it only had three payphones in the 227 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:16.279 whole town, and this was a time when payphones were 228 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:19.000 all over the cliffs. The FBI staked out the payphone 229 00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:21.480 thinking that hoping that he was dumb enough to come 230 00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:23.759 back and use the same phone. Well, he wants dumb 231 00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:26.039 enough to come back, and he used one of the 232 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:29.799 other papons, so they for some reason, he had Nancy 233 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:33.639 and drive him to all of these call livingly, I 234 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:36.279 asked him, why, Peter Lump, you know, I don't know. 235 00:12:36.360 --> 00:12:37.759 I just wasn't thinking. 236 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:41.120 What were the directions that he gave to a horrified 237 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:46.039 and confused Nancy Malls in terms of for the ransom 238 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:50.519 and regarding the police and denominations of money, give us 239 00:12:50.559 --> 00:12:54.000 all the details that she could hear. And was there 240 00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:57.639 some issue with the quality of the tape recording. 241 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:01.679 Yeah, he told her small than I domination non executive 242 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:04.720 started giving directions of where to take the money, but 243 00:13:04.799 --> 00:13:07.639 it was so confused and so garbled that she couldn't 244 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:10.559 quite understand it. But it didn't matter, because it just 245 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:13.840 didn't happen. This was the five to five PM phone call, 246 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:16.559 and the FBI got the license, played off the car, 247 00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:20.000 and by the time Danny got back to his house, 248 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:23.120 the police were already taking out his townhouse because they 249 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:26.200 knew the name and the address from getting a license. 250 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:29.320 But later that evening, it's an eleven thirty. He called 251 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:32.279 back and again he went to the same same payphone, 252 00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:35.440 and he made some more more demands. Now, one thing 253 00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:39.200 about paypones. In those days, some payphones were not phone boosts. 254 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:43.200 They were standalone phones on a pole, and you could 255 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:46.320 drive up to the phone and reach out the car 256 00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:49.600 window and make a phone call while sitting in the car. 257 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:52.480 Nancy drove him to these things, but he didn't pull 258 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:55.600 a payphone into the car. He had Nancy park ten 259 00:13:55.639 --> 00:13:58.480 feet away each time, and then he got out to 260 00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:01.639 use the payphone because she didn't know what was going on. 261 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:03.600 He didn't want her to know what was going on, 262 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:07.960 and this is substantiated by the FBI surveillance on the 263 00:14:08.039 --> 00:14:10.919 later ransom calls. He made out the paypalone. You know, 264 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:12.960 they saw her part ten feet away, and they saw 265 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:15.320 Danny get out. Kind of confusion, white, white, are you 266 00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:17.720 getting out? And use the phone from the car. Well, 267 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:19.919 he didn't use the phone from the car because he 268 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:21.960 didn't want Nancy to know what was happening. 269 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:27.480 What did Nancy assume was happening? Given the reputation and 270 00:14:27.639 --> 00:14:29.519 character of her boyfriend. 271 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:31.279 She might have assumed that maybe he was back into 272 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:34.000 dirk room, but she didn't ask too many questions because 273 00:14:34.039 --> 00:14:37.440 he was physically abusive to her many times, and in fact, 274 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:40.279 that week of the kidnapping, he was so jumping up tight. 275 00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:43.559 She asked him, what's going on that with you, lord? 276 00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:45.639 I've than usual. He pulled out a gun, put it 277 00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:48.720 to her head and said, if you don't stop asking questions, 278 00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:50.480 I'm going to blow your head off. Then I'm going 279 00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:53.480 to go upstairs and blow your son's head off. She 280 00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:55.200 didn't ask any more questions after. 281 00:14:55.480 --> 00:14:59.440 Tell us about the arrest, the circumstances, and then before 282 00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:01.960 we talk about out them both being arrested and then 283 00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:03.039 brought in for questioning. 284 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:05.559 Well, the police knew who they were and where they 285 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:08.159 lived the day of the kidnapping because they had taped home, 286 00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:11.759 but they didn't want to move in on them because 287 00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:15.320 they thought it might endanger mister Small's life. So they 288 00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:18.200 let it go for about two days and they finally decided, 289 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:20.320 you know, enough times gone by, we're moving it. So 290 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:24.320 they raided the apartment with guns drawn and took Danny 291 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:27.639 and Nancy and to her loose state for questions. Danny 292 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:31.399 wasn't saying anything. He wasn't in a talkow. Nancy cooperated 293 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:33.480 because she didn't know what the heck was going on. 294 00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:38.159 She was questioned for four days, thirteen hours over four days, 295 00:15:38.200 --> 00:15:40.480 and there's not much she could have told them because 296 00:15:40.519 --> 00:15:43.159 she didn't know anything. You know, kidnapping, what are you 297 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:46.159 talking about? They asked her a few questions about the 298 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:49.279 whereabox and then they're kidnapping and you know the tape 299 00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:52.600 recordy that Danny had mister Small news have you ever 300 00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:55.559 seen that? And she said no, no, you know she 301 00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:59.840 did because she was scared, he was confused. And that 302 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:02.279 time she's still covering up for Danny that she didn't 303 00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:03.720 know what the situation was. 304 00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:07.440 She was trying to cooperate, did she what did she 305 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:10.080 establish for the police? 306 00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:13.799 According to her, Well, she finally told exactly what happened 307 00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:18.159 as far as Danny making her drive, these paypon and 308 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:20.759 the whole week the kidnapping. Danny was all up tight 309 00:16:20.840 --> 00:16:24.080 about this and that, and she acted normal. You know, 310 00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:26.919 she took the dog to the bad she went to 311 00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:31.399 her peewee's football game, She helped the friends do this 312 00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:34.360 and that, and they all didn't acting normal. You know, 313 00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:36.480 she wouldn't be acting normal if she knew what was 314 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:36.919 going on. 315 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:41.440 So what happens in terms of Danny Edwards doesn't want 316 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:45.919 to talk. They have a bunch of really damning evidence 317 00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:49.679 against him, including witnesses. What do they have in terms 318 00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:53.360 of real hard evidence against Danny Edwards? And what is 319 00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:57.360 the prosecution's plan Before we talk about Nancy Risch and 320 00:16:57.600 --> 00:16:59.480 the prosecution's plan for her. 321 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:02.679 When Danny had been arrested, you know, they were searching 322 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:05.200 all over the place at the time when mister Small 323 00:17:05.319 --> 00:17:08.480 might be held, especially this is the Mercedes was in 324 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:11.720 some place. Well, they found the Mercedes and Danny heard 325 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:13.960 them talking. I think they were talking out purposely. He 326 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:16.960 would hear them once he knew they found the car, 327 00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:19.559 he knew they would find find the burial site. So 328 00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:21.880 that's when he started cooperating. He said, okay, I'll take 329 00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:24.359 you to where he is. I don't know, and you 330 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:26.680 know we'll dig them up. He could be okay, So 331 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:29.799 he took the police out to the burial site. Now 332 00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:33.160 by this time Danny knew mister Smalls dead because he 333 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:36.640 had he invaded the cops and the FBI tail who 334 00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:39.640 got in the motorcycle. He invaded the tail and went 335 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:41.440 out to the burial site and he yelled into the 336 00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:44.440 pipe mister Small. He said, there's no answer, so I 337 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:46.359 knew he was dead. Well, anyway, he took he took 338 00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:48.640 the cops out to the burial site, thinking that he 339 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:51.319 can save mister s Paul's life. And you know, they 340 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:54.640 dug it up and mister Small is dead. And he 341 00:17:54.680 --> 00:17:57.880 acted like, oh no, I can't believe, but he already. 342 00:17:57.640 --> 00:17:58.359 Knew he did. 343 00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:01.319 So that was the end of any cooperation. 344 00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:06.559 What does prosecution summarize in terms of initially the way 345 00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:08.000 they're going to prosecute. 346 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:10.480 Him, Well, they had all the evidence they needed. They 347 00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:13.880 had his shoes which had sand on them, they had 348 00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:16.319 the fingerprint on the box. He was the one who 349 00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:18.880 took them to the box. They had in their tight 350 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:21.279 case against them, so convicting him was easy. 351 00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:25.799 Nancy risis is charged with similar charges. Why does the 352 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:29.920 what's the idea for prosecution? What do they believe she's 353 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:33.920 actually guilty of? And tell us about how our lawyer 354 00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:37.880 severs the case for her benefit between her and her boyfriend. 355 00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:40.960 She had a separate trial, which was should have been 356 00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:44.480 a good thing. In her trial which came after Danny, 357 00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:47.240 they used every bit of evidence they had against Danny 358 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:51.480 against Nancy, which was false because all of this pointed 359 00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:55.240 to what Danny did, didn't point to anything within. The 360 00:18:55.400 --> 00:19:00.000 whole case was based on lives and conjectures and German. 361 00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:05.160 For Carlo, the prosecutors went to college theatrics before he 362 00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:07.960 went to law school, because he said in an interview 363 00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:10.039 in a mague, he said he wanted to be able 364 00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:12.680 to put on the dramatic show in the courtroom, and 365 00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:16.599 he did. He told so many lines. He said that 366 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:20.920 witnesses in the store said that Danny and Nancy bull 367 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:25.559 squat Yellen of distilled water views in the box. Well, 368 00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:28.359 the water in the box was tap water. In an 369 00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:32.319 old milk jock and it was not even introduced as evidence. 370 00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:35.160 He just said it and so many other things. He's 371 00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:38.799 a plastic tie that Danny bought. He bought for something 372 00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:40.519 he was doing at home and had nothing to do 373 00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:42.720 with the kidnapped. He didn't use the plantic tige and 374 00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:47.200 mister Small handcuffed for Carlo, said these were used in 375 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:49.240 the kidnapping. The judge said, no, you can't say that, 376 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:51.839 you can't introduce it. He said it anyway, and then 377 00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:55.000 he got a receipt from the store for the Twiss 378 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:57.880 guys that had Danny and Nancy's name on it. Well, 379 00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:00.759 much later in the appeal nance, the lawyer went to 380 00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:03.279 the store, he got the receipt and there was no name. 381 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:06.000 So it was just one lie after another, he would 382 00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:08.799 say in the summer to the jury, he would say 383 00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:12.160 such and such witness testify that they saw Daniel want 384 00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:14.720 to buy a candy bar to the box. He look 385 00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:16.960 at the transcripts. They never said that, but he said 386 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:20.079 he told the jury that they was one lie after another, 387 00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:24.880 and he was experiencing was dramatic, and Nancy had just 388 00:20:24.920 --> 00:20:29.240 about the worst lawyer, which is what the Small wanted. 389 00:20:29.559 --> 00:20:32.640 You know, every single public defender and every single attorney 390 00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:35.720 in Pink County would not take her case because they 391 00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:38.839 were afraid of the small So the judge as signed 392 00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:42.079 the worst lawyer in town. He had never tried a mind, 393 00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:46.359 so he got this experienced, dramatic guy against this weak attorney. 394 00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:49.680 And one of the jurors later said, no, if if 395 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:52.119 Nancy had had for Carlo instead of the man he had, 396 00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:53.240 he might have gotten off. 397 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:57.079 At Danny Edwards trial, we didn't talk about this, but 398 00:20:57.319 --> 00:21:00.799 his trial is different than hers in that he's eligible 399 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:04.200 for the death penalty. Now, what does he say in 400 00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:07.960 all his statements and also what was said at his 401 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:12.920