WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.810 --> 00:00:05.969 Welcome back to Killer in the Code, solving the Black 2 00:00:06.009 --> 00:00:10.859 Dahlia and Zodiac cases. I'm your host, Michael Connolly. We 3 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:13.759 are calling this Season 2 because we've been gone for 4 00:00:13.820 --> 00:00:17.879 a few months, but technically it is Chapter 11. And 5 00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:20.300 we weren't on vacation, I can assure you of that. 6 00:00:20.719 --> 00:00:23.739 The investigation headed by Alex Faber and backed by a 7 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:28.600 team of veteran homicide investigators and codebreakers has continued, and 8 00:00:28.620 --> 00:00:32.539 we have some interesting updates, and new information and evidence 9 00:00:32.659 --> 00:00:38.840 to bring you over the next few episodes. First, I 10 00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:41.539 think we should do a quick recap of the investigation 11 00:00:41.579 --> 00:00:44.049 and get up to date. This is such a big 12 00:00:44.090 --> 00:00:47.149 and sprawling story about two of the most infamous crimes 13 00:00:47.229 --> 00:00:50.750 in California history that it's hard to put it into 14 00:00:50.789 --> 00:00:53.649 a brief synopsis, but I'm going to try so we 15 00:00:53.689 --> 00:00:56.450 can get to the new stuff sooner rather than later. 16 00:00:58.070 --> 00:01:01.869 51-year-old Alex Baber is a citizen sleuth. He runs an 17 00:01:01.929 --> 00:01:05.989 organization called Cold Case Consultants of America. He's on the 18 00:01:06.109 --> 00:01:09.879 autism spectrum, but doesn't consider it any sort of affliction. 19 00:01:10.299 --> 00:01:12.719 He says it gives him a mindset that brings new 20 00:01:12.819 --> 00:01:16.879 ideas and fresh angles to cold case investigation. It allows 21 00:01:16.939 --> 00:01:20.879 him to find the hidden beneath the hidden. It also 22 00:01:20.959 --> 00:01:23.340 means that when he fixates on a case, he becomes 23 00:01:23.420 --> 00:01:28.629 relentless in his pursuit of it. An amateur and self-taught cryptanalyst, 24 00:01:29.150 --> 00:01:31.629 he has long been obsessed with the codes left behind 25 00:01:31.689 --> 00:01:35.989 by the Zodiac, the serial killer that held Northern California 26 00:01:36.049 --> 00:01:40.689 in the grip of fear almost 60 years ago. Until now, 27 00:01:41.340 --> 00:01:44.859 the Zodiac has never been identified. In the wake of 28 00:01:44.900 --> 00:01:49.120 the five seemingly random murders attributed to him, the Zodiac 29 00:01:49.159 --> 00:01:53.310 sent four different ciphers to local newspapers. The first was 30 00:01:53.409 --> 00:01:58.030 partially broken almost immediately. The next three withstood the test 31 00:01:58.069 --> 00:02:01.930 of time and the best minds in cryptology until very 32 00:02:02.010 --> 00:02:07.200 recent years. Baber focused on the Z13, so-called because it 33 00:02:07.260 --> 00:02:11.840 contained a scramble of only 13 letters and symbols. As such, 34 00:02:11.879 --> 00:02:14.729 it was deemed by many in the field of cryptanalytics 35 00:02:15.270 --> 00:02:18.349 to be unbreakable because it was so few characters involved. 36 00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:22.560 it would be impervious to traditional code-breaking methods and tools. 37 00:02:24.439 --> 00:02:27.120 The Z13 was considered by many to be the holy 38 00:02:27.159 --> 00:02:31.300 grail of Zodiac ciphers because the killer claimed in his 39 00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:35.599 note to the media that it contained his name. Three 40 00:02:35.650 --> 00:02:39.590 years ago, Baber built a database of 71 million names 41 00:02:39.629 --> 00:02:43.590 that fit the 13-digit cipher and then used a variety 42 00:02:43.610 --> 00:02:48.509 of screening tools, artificial intelligence, in government databases to whittle 43 00:02:48.889 --> 00:02:51.629 the list down name by name until he had cut 44 00:02:51.669 --> 00:02:55.090 it to double digits. A deeper dive ensued, and a 45 00:02:55.150 --> 00:02:58.539 list of 35 names was knocked down to 14, and 46 00:02:58.580 --> 00:03:02.479 then 14 became 7, and eventually there was one name 47 00:03:02.539 --> 00:03:10.500 left standing, Marvin Merrill. It wasn't long before Baber determined 48 00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:14.280 through social security records that Marvin Merrill was an alias 49 00:03:14.419 --> 00:03:18.219 used by a man named Marvin Margolis, a known suspect 50 00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:21.939 in the so-called Black Dahlia case, the infamous killing of 51 00:03:22.020 --> 00:03:26.780 Elizabeth Short in Los Angeles in 1947. The name was 52 00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:30.020 already in a database Baber had accumulated when he had 53 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:36.069 previously researched the Black Dahlia case. Baber enlisted a team 54 00:03:36.110 --> 00:03:39.250 of three veteran homicide investigators to check his work and 55 00:03:39.289 --> 00:03:42.770 let the chips fall where they may. They included Rick Jackson, 56 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:46.210 who worked homicides for the Los Angeles Police Department for 57 00:03:46.250 --> 00:03:50.110 nearly 30 years and was now investigating cold cases for 58 00:03:50.150 --> 00:03:54.930 the San Mateo County Sheriff's Office in Northern California. His partner, 59 00:03:54.990 --> 00:03:58.590 Dave Tresmonton, also joined the BABA review, and the third 60 00:03:58.650 --> 00:04:03.650 addition was Missy Roberts, a veteran LAPD homicide investigator who 61 00:04:03.689 --> 00:04:06.830 retired as officer in charge of the cold case unit. 62 00:04:07.629 --> 00:04:11.219 During the last 15 years of her career with the LAPD, 63 00:04:11.819 --> 00:04:16.920 Roberts also had custody of the Black Dahlia case. All 64 00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:20.360 three of these seasoned investigators reviewed Baber's work and arrived 65 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:25.939 at the same conclusion. Marvin Margolis, a.k.a. Marvin Merrill, was 66 00:04:25.980 --> 00:04:30.790 responsible for these murders. Also added to the investigation was 67 00:04:30.850 --> 00:04:34.610 a team of cryptanalysts led by Ed Giorgio and including 68 00:04:34.670 --> 00:04:39.300 Patrick Henry and Rich Wisniewski. Together, these men had more 69 00:04:39.339 --> 00:04:43.170 than 100 years' experience making and breaking codes for the 70 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:47.649 National Security Agency. In fact, Giorgio is the only man 71 00:04:47.689 --> 00:04:51.170 in history to serve as both chief codebreaker and chief 72 00:04:51.250 --> 00:04:56.170 codemaker for the NSA. The impeccable credentials of the team 73 00:04:56.209 --> 00:04:59.750 Baber put together are important. If you have listened to 74 00:04:59.790 --> 00:05:02.430 the earlier episodes of this podcast, you know that there 75 00:05:02.470 --> 00:05:06.490 has been pushback from some to Baber's work and conclusions. 76 00:05:07.310 --> 00:05:10.649 The pushback comes from those with vested interests in other 77 00:05:10.689 --> 00:05:14.560 suspects they have long clinged to. If Baber's team is right, 78 00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:17.920 then they are wrong, and nobody likes being proved wrong. 79 00:05:18.660 --> 00:05:20.879 We will get into all that in later episodes of 80 00:05:20.899 --> 00:05:24.189 the podcast, but suffice it to say that these six 81 00:05:24.230 --> 00:05:30.329 highly experienced and accomplished professionals have expertise that dwarfs that 82 00:05:30.490 --> 00:05:34.529 of the critics of this investigation. They have reviewed and 83 00:05:34.589 --> 00:05:39.470 re-reviewed Babers work and find it convincing. And through their 84 00:05:39.550 --> 00:05:42.310 own work, they have even added evidence that points to 85 00:05:42.370 --> 00:05:47.509 Meryl Margolis, and they remain unswayed by the critics. They 86 00:05:47.569 --> 00:05:51.230 say these crimes are solved. This is Rick Jackson. 87 00:05:51.769 --> 00:05:56.199 Yes, I'm totally still on this. And as we go, 88 00:05:56.480 --> 00:06:02.139 the connections between Meryl Margolis to the cases that we've 89 00:06:02.259 --> 00:06:06.040 connected into get even stronger. And again, I have no 90 00:06:06.100 --> 00:06:12.579 doubt that this is the guy. The evidence that we've presented, 91 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:15.579 the connections we've presented is extraordinary. 92 00:06:16.579 --> 00:06:19.990 And this is Mitzi Roberts. I am fully committed to 93 00:06:20.290 --> 00:06:21.050 this suspect. 94 00:06:21.730 --> 00:06:25.350 I wouldn't be still working so strongly on it if 95 00:06:25.410 --> 00:06:27.769 I didn't believe that we were on to the right person, 96 00:06:28.129 --> 00:06:31.089 that this is 100% the lead we should be tracking down. 97 00:06:32.370 --> 00:06:33.629 I still say that. 98 00:06:33.589 --> 00:06:36.139 The evidence that we have and the amount of the 99 00:06:36.180 --> 00:06:38.240 circumstantial evidence is overwhelming. 100 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:40.800 We have more evidence in this case. 101 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:42.439 I don't like to say we have less evidence in 102 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:44.860 my other cases, but we have more evidence in this 103 00:06:44.939 --> 00:06:48.889 case than I have in several of the cases I 104 00:06:48.930 --> 00:06:52.930 can think of where they've resulted in prosecutions, like difficult 105 00:06:52.970 --> 00:06:57.800 cases that have resulted in prosecutions. This case, I believe 106 00:06:57.810 --> 00:06:59.339 we have more evidence even. 107 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:03.139 In those cases. Since we last posted an episode, the 108 00:07:03.180 --> 00:07:06.740 investigation has continued and we have widened the peer review. 109 00:07:07.459 --> 00:07:09.899 Ed Giorgio has convened a work group with dozens of 110 00:07:09.959 --> 00:07:14.540 professional cryptanalysts joining the review. So far, not one has 111 00:07:14.600 --> 00:07:17.550 punched a hole in Baber and his team's work on this. 112 00:07:18.129 --> 00:07:21.189 And these are not amateurs or hobbyists. They are pros. 113 00:07:21.550 --> 00:07:23.970 We have also gone out wider in law enforcement and 114 00:07:24.009 --> 00:07:27.310 the justice system to peer review the findings. In the 115 00:07:27.370 --> 00:07:30.620 episodes ahead, you will hear from judges and prosecutors and 116 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:35.199 what they think of the evidence the team has put together. Okay, 117 00:07:35.579 --> 00:07:39.680 so let's get this going. One of the most significant 118 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:42.870 advances in the investigation made since you last heard from 119 00:07:42.939 --> 00:07:49.310 us was the acquiring of Marvin Margolis' 221-page military personnel file. 120 00:07:50.589 --> 00:07:53.009 It contained several new pieces of the puzzle that was 121 00:07:53.069 --> 00:07:58.449 Marvin Margolis. new insights into this suspect's damaged psyche, and 122 00:07:58.509 --> 00:08:03.430 direct connections to the crimes the team is investigating. Finally, 123 00:08:03.629 --> 00:08:06.860 and most importantly, it allows us to hear from Margolis 124 00:08:06.889 --> 00:08:10.699 in his own words, a harrowing account of the traumatic 125 00:08:10.759 --> 00:08:15.040 and life-altering experiences he had while serving in the military 126 00:08:15.100 --> 00:08:18.459 during World War II. This is Alex Baber. 127 00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:21.860 All right, so as far as Marvin Margolis' background, what 128 00:08:21.899 --> 00:08:25.009 we learned from his military file that Rick secured, We 129 00:08:25.050 --> 00:08:28.350 were able to get the detailed psych evaluations. Now, what 130 00:08:28.389 --> 00:08:31.089 this does for us, it gives us a deeper dive 131 00:08:31.149 --> 00:08:33.429 into his psychology. 132 00:08:34.210 --> 00:08:35.429 And this is Mitzi Roberts. 133 00:08:36.029 --> 00:08:39.059 It's the closest I think we could get to talking 134 00:08:39.100 --> 00:08:41.840 to him with him not being here, but being able 135 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:45.899 to like have his words and kind of have a 136 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:51.639 pretty clear picture when he left the service of his 137 00:08:51.950 --> 00:08:56.179 mindset and And, you know, with the PTSD and, you know, 138 00:08:56.200 --> 00:09:01.250 he definitely left the service being in a dark, like 139 00:09:01.289 --> 00:09:06.029 a dark, dark place, you know, not a healthy mind 140 00:09:06.070 --> 00:09:06.769 state at all. 141 00:09:09.009 --> 00:09:12.029 Getting the file was no easy task. As a homicide 142 00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:16.179 investigator who has worked cases across five decades, Rick Jackson 143 00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:19.659 has often had to run down the military service of suspects, 144 00:09:19.899 --> 00:09:24.289 victims and witnesses in cases. The place you start is 145 00:09:24.330 --> 00:09:28.210 the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, Missouri. The 146 00:09:28.370 --> 00:09:32.039 NPRC is one of the largest federal archives in existence. 147 00:09:32.580 --> 00:09:35.440 The building alone covers seven acres and holds more than 148 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:41.539 100 million military and civil service personnel files. While digitizing 149 00:09:41.590 --> 00:09:45.070 began in the 90s, finding a singular hard file dating 150 00:09:45.129 --> 00:09:48.250 back to the 1940s is not like finding a book 151 00:09:48.289 --> 00:09:51.090 in a library. It's more like finding a needle in 152 00:09:51.129 --> 00:09:55.230 a haystack. Military records are divided by branch of service 153 00:09:55.309 --> 00:09:58.929 and date of enlistment or discharge. Added to that, a 154 00:09:59.269 --> 00:10:04.299 massive fire in 1973 destroyed millions of military files while 155 00:10:04.350 --> 00:10:07.889 leaving much of the rest in disarray. But over the 156 00:10:07.929 --> 00:10:11.950 years as a homicide investigator, Jackson learned who to go 157 00:10:12.009 --> 00:10:16.289 to and what to ask at the NPRC. After a 158 00:10:16.350 --> 00:10:19.570 lengthy search, a hard copy of Margolis' full file was 159 00:10:19.629 --> 00:10:21.850 found and shared with Jackson. 160 00:10:22.669 --> 00:10:26.029 As a veteran homicide detective, I mean, you always want 161 00:10:26.370 --> 00:10:29.009 to throw out the biggest net you can to get 162 00:10:29.070 --> 00:10:33.730 information on where you're going in an investigation, whether it's 163 00:10:33.769 --> 00:10:37.909 a suspect or whether it's witnesses that you have issues with. 164 00:10:38.289 --> 00:10:41.129 But with a suspect, you really want to do that 165 00:10:41.149 --> 00:10:45.399 because you want to learn everything you can about somebody, 166 00:10:45.620 --> 00:10:49.500 you know, and time and time again, some things may, 167 00:10:49.820 --> 00:10:53.879 you know, may lead you away from something. In this case, 168 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:59.169 it was leading me more and more toward Marvin Margolis 169 00:10:59.230 --> 00:11:02.549 as a suspect. And that's just what you do. That's 170 00:11:02.610 --> 00:11:05.389 part of your training. You want to get information no 171 00:11:05.429 --> 00:11:08.830 matter where it ends up leading. That's part of your 172 00:11:08.870 --> 00:11:11.090 mandate as a good investigator. 173 00:11:12.259 --> 00:11:14.580 The file contains a lot to go over and many 174 00:11:14.600 --> 00:11:18.470 of the documents you can see on our website, KillerInTheCode.com. 175 00:11:19.230 --> 00:11:21.870 As we established in the first season of the podcast, 176 00:11:22.490 --> 00:11:25.970 records from early investigations by the Los Angeles police and 177 00:11:25.990 --> 00:11:29.769 the L.A. County grand jury found that Marvin Margolis knew 178 00:11:29.929 --> 00:11:33.450 Elizabeth Short and even lived with her briefly just three 179 00:11:33.509 --> 00:11:36.629 months before her tortured and severed body was found in 180 00:11:36.690 --> 00:11:42.419 a trash-strewn lot the morning of January 15, 1947. Police 181 00:11:42.500 --> 00:11:46.080 records refer to Margolis as the last known boyfriend of 182 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:51.360 Elizabeth Short. He was a pre-med student at the University 183 00:11:51.399 --> 00:11:54.039 of Southern California at the time of the murder and 184 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:57.250 had served as a combat medic attached to a Marine 185 00:11:57.379 --> 00:12:01.070 unit that fought on Ogonalla during World War II. It 186 00:12:01.110 --> 00:12:03.970 was thought by authorities at the time that whoever killed 187 00:12:04.029 --> 00:12:07.350 Elizabeth Short had to have had a degree of medical 188 00:12:07.409 --> 00:12:10.919 skill to conduct the bisection of her body. All of 189 00:12:10.980 --> 00:12:13.879 this made Margolis a key suspect in the early going 190 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:17.500 of the case. He was interviewed twice by detectives and 191 00:12:17.539 --> 00:12:21.700 was deemed deceitful each time, primarily because he first lied 192 00:12:21.740 --> 00:12:26.019 about even knowing Elizabeth Short. But Margolis was never arrested 193 00:12:26.179 --> 00:12:28.889 or charged at the time. The lead detective on the 194 00:12:28.929 --> 00:12:32.090 case would later testify under oath to a grand jury 195 00:12:32.509 --> 00:12:36.649 that Margolis was a top suspect. He also said Margolis 196 00:12:36.690 --> 00:12:39.899 couldn't be ruled in or out as the killer. There 197 00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:43.019 just wasn't enough evidence to charge him or clear him. 198 00:12:44.100 --> 00:12:47.200 At the time of that detective's testimony, they had lost 199 00:12:47.259 --> 00:12:50.659 track of Margolis. He had left Los Angeles and returned 200 00:12:50.700 --> 00:12:54.639 to his native Chicago. Subsequent efforts by the investigators from 201 00:12:54.710 --> 00:12:58.289 Los Angeles and Chicago to find him there failed. There 202 00:12:58.330 --> 00:13:01.350 were no computers and digital connectivity back then, and they 203 00:13:01.450 --> 00:13:05.490 apparently missed their chance when he was arrested and briefly 204 00:13:05.549 --> 00:13:09.100 detained on a fraud charge. But shortly after that, he 205 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:12.659 left Chicago, changed his name to Marvin Merrill, and began 206 00:13:12.700 --> 00:13:15.259 a series of moves as well as career and name 207 00:13:15.299 --> 00:13:18.090 changes that took him from one side of the country 208 00:13:18.139 --> 00:13:21.750 to the other before he landed permanently back in California 209 00:13:22.470 --> 00:13:28.570 in the early 1960s. He died in Santa Barbara in 1993. 210 00:13:28.570 --> 00:13:32.320 He was buried in a veteran's cemetery under his birth name, 211 00:13:32.700 --> 00:13:38.399 Marvin Margolis. Witnesses interviewed during the initial investigation of Elizabeth 212 00:13:38.440 --> 00:13:41.340 Short's murder, as well as a policewoman who said she 213 00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:44.649 encountered her the night before her murder, said that she 214 00:13:44.690 --> 00:13:48.669 was fearful of a former boyfriend who was an ex-Marine. 215 00:13:50.370 --> 00:13:53.470 The military records we all obtained confirmed that Margolis was 216 00:13:53.529 --> 00:13:56.370 not a Marine. Though he would claim at times after 217 00:13:56.409 --> 00:13:59.169 the war to have been a Marine, he was technically 218 00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:02.840 a Navy corpsman or medic. assigned to the 1st Marines, 219 00:14:02.889 --> 00:14:06.000 the combat division that made the first landing on the 220 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:09.340 Japanese island of Okinawa and engaged in one of the 221 00:14:09.379 --> 00:14:10.799 bloodiest battles. 222 00:14:10.779 --> 00:14:11.360 Of the war. 223 00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:15.259 According to his service file, Margolis walked into a Navy 224 00:14:15.299 --> 00:14:21.159 recruiting office in Chicago and enlisted on March 11, 1943. 225 00:14:21.159 --> 00:14:24.740 It was two weeks before his 18th birthday and his father, Isidore, 226 00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:28.179 had to sign off on his enlistment because he was underage. 227 00:14:28.950 --> 00:14:31.649 Margolis was then sent off to boot camp at Naval 228 00:14:31.690 --> 00:14:36.289 Station Great Lakes, located on the Illinois side of Lake Michigan. 229 00:14:37.690 --> 00:14:41.149 At the Great Lakes base, Margolis requested training as a medic, 230 00:14:41.750 --> 00:14:44.840 and the request was approved by the base's commanding officer, 231 00:14:44.940 --> 00:14:48.960 Captain Robert Emmett. This leads us to a potential connection 232 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:52.799 to the Zodiac case. The first cipher composed and sent 233 00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:56.740 to the media by the Zodiac in 1969 was called 234 00:14:56.779 --> 00:15:01.980 the Z408 because it was 408 characters long. It was 235 00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:04.980 quickly decoded, for the most part, by a high school 236 00:15:05.019 --> 00:15:08.279 teacher and his wife who saw it in the local newspapers. 237 00:15:09.059 --> 00:15:11.659 I say for the most part because the couple decoded 238 00:15:11.820 --> 00:15:15.399 all but the last 18 digits of the cipher. Those 239 00:15:15.460 --> 00:15:19.399 last characters, which then became known as Z18, were thought 240 00:15:19.419 --> 00:15:22.570 to possibly just be gibberish added by the Zodiac to 241 00:15:22.629 --> 00:15:26.409 fill out the code grid. But other amateur codebreakers and 242 00:15:26.450 --> 00:15:30.539 professional cryptanalysts at the time reported to police that the 243 00:15:30.580 --> 00:15:35.279 remaining characters were an anagram for Robert Emmett, the hippie. 244 00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:40.139 You have to remember these killings took place in 1969 245 00:15:40.139 --> 00:15:42.940 and 70, just after the Summer of Love in San 246 00:15:42.980 --> 00:15:47.539 Francisco and the birth of the hippie movement. Police investigating 247 00:15:47.580 --> 00:15:50.799 the Zodiac murders at the time started checking out local 248 00:15:50.850 --> 00:15:54.669 men by that name. One investigator was quoted in the 249 00:15:54.710 --> 00:15:58.070 newspaper as saying, I am looking for Robert Emmett, hippie 250 00:15:58.250 --> 00:16:02.389 or otherwise. But the lead went nowhere, perhaps because the 251 00:16:02.450 --> 00:16:06.399 Robert Emmett they were looking for was far from Northern California. 252 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:10.039 So is it just a coincidence that our suspect in 253 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:14.679 the Zodiac killings, Marvin Margolis, a.k.a. Marvin Merrill, happened to 254 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:17.610 have a commanding officer in the Navy named Robert Emmett? 255 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:21.090 I know that the critics of this investigation will dismiss 256 00:16:21.169 --> 00:16:24.659 it as such. But remember this, Robert Emmett played a 257 00:16:24.759 --> 00:16:27.240 very important role in Marvin Margolis' life. 258 00:16:28.120 --> 00:16:29.879 This is the guy that sent him down the road. 259 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:32.139 He sent him to medical school. 260 00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:34.879 And it was that order that ultimately led to the 261 00:16:34.950 --> 00:16:38.470 traumatic experience that very clearly, and by his own words, 262 00:16:38.690 --> 00:16:41.990 impacted Margolis for the rest of his life. This is 263 00:16:42.029 --> 00:16:46.990 veteran homicide investigator Missy Roberts' take on it. Again.. 264 00:16:47.779 --> 00:16:51.909 This is the reason why my mind hasn't changed on 265 00:16:51.970 --> 00:16:55.190 him as a suspect is because it just, the evidence 266 00:16:55.710 --> 00:16:59.690 just continues to sort of, the. 267 00:17:01.129 --> 00:17:05.130 Coincidences continue to grow. And like, we've talked about this before. 268 00:17:05.289 --> 00:17:07.849 And when is it no longer a coincidence and now 269 00:17:07.890 --> 00:17:08.569 it's evidence? 270 00:17:09.670 --> 00:17:12.950 Ed Giorgio, the former NSA co-breaker, is also quick to 271 00:17:13.019 --> 00:17:15.500 point out to the critics that that this is not 272 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:18.319 a connection that could have been manufactured by Baber or 273 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:21.809 anyone else on the team. The name Robert Emmett was 274 00:17:21.890 --> 00:17:26.630 part of the official Zodiac investigation and in Margolis' military 275 00:17:26.710 --> 00:17:29.410 record before Alex Baber was even born. 276 00:17:30.190 --> 00:17:32.650 That's a name we're given. We didn't find that name. 277 00:17:32.890 --> 00:17:33.869 We're given that name. 278 00:17:34.490 --> 00:17:38.839 And there is a relationship that is very unlikely at random, 279 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:43.799 but people will just look at it as a coincidence, right? 280 00:17:44.109 --> 00:17:48.170 That's the whole nature of this whole set of evidence 281 00:17:48.549 --> 00:17:52.430 is that you have to say about 40 times, oh, 282 00:17:52.470 --> 00:17:53.690 that's just a coincidence. 283 00:17:54.339 --> 00:17:59.380 And if any one of those 40 indicators are true, 284 00:17:59.460 --> 00:18:00.480 then the whole thing is true. 285 00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:01.180 Okay. 286 00:18:01.900 --> 00:18:05.059 And in order to be false, all 40 have to 287 00:18:05.099 --> 00:18:08.319 be false. So it only takes one to make it true, 288 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:11.619 but you got to prove all 40 are false. And 289 00:18:11.660 --> 00:18:14.690 that's just very unlikely. that you would be able to 290 00:18:14.730 --> 00:18:20.509 do that. So all of this circumstantial evidence doesn't really 291 00:18:20.529 --> 00:18:23.630 stand on its own. It's that only when you look 292 00:18:23.690 --> 00:18:24.730 at all of it together. 293 00:18:25.289 --> 00:18:30.529 Patrick Henry, another veteran NSA cryptanalyst working with Giorgio, points 294 00:18:30.690 --> 00:18:34.779 out that the circumstantial or forensic evidence discovered outside of 295 00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:39.059 the Zodiac ciphers lends significant support to Baber's work and 296 00:18:39.099 --> 00:18:43.369 his solution to the My Name is cipher. Finding the 297 00:18:43.400 --> 00:18:46.950 name Robert Emmett in both the Zodiac Cipher and Margolis' 298 00:18:47.049 --> 00:18:50.990 military record is just one example of how the totality 299 00:18:51.029 --> 00:18:53.329 of the investigation is convincing. 300 00:18:54.509 --> 00:19:01.019 There isn't enough in the cryptography to conclusively say, yes, 301 00:19:01.099 --> 00:19:05.299 this is the right answer. But when you add in 302 00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:10.660 all the forensic information, and hopefully there will be more 303 00:19:10.700 --> 00:19:15.799 of that coming out soon, it becomes more and more convincing. 304 00:19:16.339 --> 00:19:19.240 All we can say from a cryptographic perspective is that 305 00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:24.039 this is a plausible solution and it doesn't fall apart 306 00:19:24.220 --> 00:19:27.619 when you poke at it. When you poke at it, 307 00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:31.940 you find things that seem to reinforce the solution being correct. 308 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:36.759 Now, if you listen to the first season of the podcast, 309 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:40.559 you'll remember that an amateur codebreaker in Sweden came up 310 00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:43.759 with a different name when he attempted to crack Z18. 311 00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:47.789 He found the name Marvin Merrill, matching Baber's solution to 312 00:19:47.829 --> 00:19:51.900 the Z13 cipher. His work and result were then confirmed 313 00:19:51.940 --> 00:19:54.859 by Baber as well as Ed Giorgio and his team. 314 00:19:55.859 --> 00:19:58.299 So what does this mean? Is it Robert Emmett or 315 00:19:58.339 --> 00:20:02.380 Marvin Merrill in the decrypt? Is one solution right and 316 00:20:02.420 --> 00:20:05.549 the other one wrong? Well, the truth is they both 317 00:20:05.670 --> 00:20:09.769 work on different levels. The Robert Emmett name comes from 318 00:20:09.789 --> 00:20:13.410 a simple anagram, while the Marvin Merrill reference comes from 319 00:20:13.470 --> 00:20:19.200 a more complicated encryption structure known as the transposition columnar method. 320 00:20:19.740 --> 00:20:22.480 Employing them both in the same cipher speaks to the 321 00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:26.599 author's skill as a codemaker. This is Alex Baber. 322 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:30.920 I think the important thing about the Z18 having two 323 00:20:30.980 --> 00:20:36.700 possible solutions, one being the initial solution of Robert Emmett, 324 00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:42.750 the hippie, which was presented by crypto experts back in 1969, 325 00:20:42.750 --> 00:20:45.930 August of 69. And then it was followed up by 326 00:20:46.069 --> 00:20:50.779 Detective Lynch of Leia PD seeking out any suspects that 327 00:20:50.839 --> 00:20:56.619 would fit that name, Decipher. And then us discovering that 328 00:20:56.819 --> 00:21:00.140 later on within the military files. So what we do 329 00:21:00.180 --> 00:21:02.710 know is that if this is in fact the case 330 00:21:03.029 --> 00:21:06.200 that Marvin was thinking on another level, He was able 331 00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:08.279 to encrypt not one, but two names, and both of 332 00:21:08.299 --> 00:21:11.460 them had a different purpose. One being his identity, as 333 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:14.680 he called it, was in the 408 letter to the Chronicle. 334 00:21:14.900 --> 00:21:17.299 He says within this cipher, meaning that section of it, 335 00:21:17.740 --> 00:21:21.220 his identity existed. And then for him to come back 336 00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:24.650 and layer his actual name or alias at that time 337 00:21:25.109 --> 00:21:29.710 beneath the Robert Emmett was on another level. I've never 338 00:21:29.769 --> 00:21:32.769 witnessed anything like that previously in any of the texts 339 00:21:32.809 --> 00:21:34.890 that I've read or any of the documents I've researched. 340 00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:39.440 Okay, let's go back to the military records. On Robert 341 00:21:39.529 --> 00:21:42.950 Emmett's order, Marvin Margolis received medical training and was then 342 00:21:43.049 --> 00:21:47.009 transferred to a Navy base on Puget Sound, Washington, where 343 00:21:47.049 --> 00:21:51.049 he was assigned to work in a hospital dispensary. By 344 00:21:51.089 --> 00:21:55.349 his own account, Margolis, who was Jewish, faced systemic anti-Semitism 345 00:21:55.430 --> 00:21:59.450 at the base. His military file contains an eight-page letter 346 00:21:59.529 --> 00:22:02.450 he wrote many years later to the Department of the 347 00:22:02.509 --> 00:22:05.170 Navy as well as the President of the United States. 348 00:22:06.089 --> 00:22:08.789 As Alex Baber says, the letter gives us a window 349 00:22:08.849 --> 00:22:11.910 into Margolis' mindset following the war. 350 00:22:12.430 --> 00:22:16.000 So we're able to hear him from beyond the grave. 351 00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:18.900 Parts of the letter will be read here by actor 352 00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:19.880 Scott Clace. 353 00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:24.140 At the dispensary when I was assigned to it, I 354 00:22:24.180 --> 00:22:26.680 was the most eager hospital corpsman they had. I mean, 355 00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:31.559 I took anything they dished out. Night emergency duty, surgery, 356 00:22:31.980 --> 00:22:37.250 VD duty, prisoner duty, hospital duty. marine target range duty, etc. 357 00:22:37.349 --> 00:22:37.910 Etc. 358 00:22:38.430 --> 00:22:40.769 I wanted to be a good Navy man, a regular. 359 00:22:41.490 --> 00:22:45.569 But a Jew in that environment, amidst some of the 360 00:22:45.630 --> 00:22:49.059 most bigoted young men I have ever known, I was 361 00:22:49.099 --> 00:22:53.660 a target for deprivations and subordinations. I took them, but 362 00:22:53.700 --> 00:22:55.279 they weren't enough for. 363 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:56.039 The bigots in power. 364 00:22:56.079 --> 00:23:00.660 They were adverse to my passing the examination for third-class 365 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:04.299 petty officer and discussed right in front of me that 366 00:23:05.180 --> 00:23:07.940 a Jew in the office, would not be tolerated. 367 00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:13.200 Then they conceived a plan. Margoison went on in the 368 00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:16.000 letter to explain that the plan was to saddle him 369 00:23:16.039 --> 00:23:18.640 with false deficiencies to the point that he would be 370 00:23:18.700 --> 00:23:22.579 transferred elsewhere. That eventually happened when he was transferred to 371 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:27.269 Camp Pendleton in Southern California and attached as a corpsman 372 00:23:27.809 --> 00:23:30.589 to the 1st Marines, a combat division heading to the 373 00:23:30.650 --> 00:23:34.369 war in the Pacific. In his letter... Margoas called it 374 00:23:34.430 --> 00:23:36.470 a raw deal that placed him in one of the 375 00:23:36.509 --> 00:23:40.720 bloodiest battlefields in the war. What Margoas encountered during the 376 00:23:40.759 --> 00:23:44.819 battle for control of Okinawa was indeed traumatic. It was 377 00:23:44.859 --> 00:23:48.299 the largest amphibious assault of the war in the Pacific. 378 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:52.480 It was also one of the costliest. The casualties were staggering. 379 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:57.220 More than 14,000 American soldiers died on the island during 380 00:23:57.240 --> 00:24:01.609 the battle. Scores more were wounded, and Margoas was in 381 00:24:01.650 --> 00:24:04.309 the thick of it. In the letter he later wrote, 382 00:24:04.549 --> 00:24:07.349 he described one night and day of the fight. 383 00:24:08.710 --> 00:24:13.420 On or about May 17, 1945, at a point position 384 00:24:13.700 --> 00:24:18.160 along the front line, my squad encountered a lengthy mortar 385 00:24:18.460 --> 00:24:22.190 barrage from the enemy position, which was in the visible distance. 386 00:24:23.029 --> 00:24:26.289 It began at dusk and lasted into the darkness of night. 387 00:24:27.329 --> 00:24:30.609 As the squad's Navy combat medical corpsman, it was my 388 00:24:30.670 --> 00:24:34.440 job to answer the calls for first aid, remove wounded 389 00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:38.670 personnel from harm's way, and to establish means for instantaneous 390 00:24:38.750 --> 00:24:42.269 evacuation of the injured from the line. On that day, 391 00:24:42.609 --> 00:24:46.529 my work seemed endless. From moments after the onset of 392 00:24:46.589 --> 00:24:49.670 the barrage, I was called to leave my foxhole and 393 00:24:49.859 --> 00:24:53.900 rush through the saturation of explosions, often being knocked down 394 00:24:53.960 --> 00:24:57.279 while answering to the screams for my help. And when 395 00:24:57.359 --> 00:24:59.930 I arrived at the site of each hurt man, There 396 00:24:59.970 --> 00:25:02.309 was no room for me to hide from the blasts 397 00:25:02.390 --> 00:25:06.819 and the whirls of shrapnel. I kneeled to help the men, 398 00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:08.859 and I prayed to survive. 399 00:25:10.940 --> 00:25:13.599 That was one night in a battle that lasted 82 400 00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:18.180 days before the Allied forces finally emerged victorious. But Margolis 401 00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:21.000