WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.799 --> 00:00:09.880 Joining us now as Jay Warner Wallace. As I said, 2 00:00:09.880 --> 00:00:11.519 I've talked to him a couple of times before about 3 00:00:11.519 --> 00:00:15.759 his book called Case Christianity, and he's got a new 4 00:00:15.839 --> 00:00:19.199 book that is put out in a very different way, 5 00:00:19.239 --> 00:00:22.320 and I really like this. It's a i'll just show 6 00:00:22.359 --> 00:00:26.280 you the cover here of it. It is a graphic novel. 7 00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:29.519 So there's the suspense broken right there. I gave away 8 00:00:29.519 --> 00:00:32.759 the secret. I thank you for joining us, mister Wallace, 9 00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:34.479 Thank you so much, appreciate it. 10 00:00:36.039 --> 00:00:37.159 Tell us a little to take. 11 00:00:38.119 --> 00:00:40.119 Yeah, that's right. Tell us a little bit about this 12 00:00:40.359 --> 00:00:41.960 and why you did this, and of course you did 13 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:45.640 this in conjunction with your son. It's really professionally done. 14 00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:47.719 We've got some images of it that we can show. 15 00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:52.000 But it's an amazing book and it's a kind of 16 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:55.240 a fun way to get the point across that you've 17 00:00:55.240 --> 00:00:56.880 made in some of your other books before. Tell us 18 00:00:56.880 --> 00:00:57.560 a little bit about it. 19 00:00:58.000 --> 00:00:59.840 Yeah, yeah, I think most of my other all my 20 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:03.399 books are nonfiction books that make a case for Christianity, 21 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:07.400 either for its truthfulness or for its goodness and usefulness. 22 00:01:07.599 --> 00:01:09.079 So those are books that we kind of just make 23 00:01:09.159 --> 00:01:11.359 us a straight case. But I think there's a lot 24 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:15.400 of folks who who are moved more by fiction, And 25 00:01:15.640 --> 00:01:17.799 my son always thinks this too, because we know that 26 00:01:17.799 --> 00:01:20.120 we can make a case for something and you may 27 00:01:20.359 --> 00:01:22.719 agree with that case, but we can also take you 28 00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:25.680 on a journey, and if you are part of the journey, 29 00:01:25.719 --> 00:01:27.799 you end up living the case. And so this is 30 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:30.680 a graphic novel that is a fictional work about a 31 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:33.879 team of detectives that are trying to catch a serial 32 00:01:33.959 --> 00:01:36.719 killer in Los Angeles County. You know, we applied all 33 00:01:36.760 --> 00:01:39.200 of our experience in the county, So this is going 34 00:01:39.239 --> 00:01:42.040 to feel, I think, pretty realistic. If you're a police officer, detective, 35 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:43.920 you're going to read this and think, oh, yeah, that's 36 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:46.239 pretty much how we do it. But I also think 37 00:01:46.280 --> 00:01:48.680 what we're trying to do is to tell a better 38 00:01:48.760 --> 00:01:51.680 story to tell. We're going to explore an issue that 39 00:01:51.719 --> 00:01:54.519 most people struggle with, and that is how do we 40 00:01:54.599 --> 00:01:58.519 ground human value, meaning and purpose. I think that most 41 00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:00.879 of us take our identity for granted, and then at 42 00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:03.319 some point we struggle because we're trying to figure out, like, 43 00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:06.239 who are we really? And if you'll notice, and if 44 00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:09.280 you've seen like today in America, there'll be a number 45 00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:12.919 of homicides, it's just the sad truth. Now, most of 46 00:02:12.919 --> 00:02:14.759 those you're not going to know anything about because they're 47 00:02:14.759 --> 00:02:17.039 never going to make the press. But if a celebrity 48 00:02:17.080 --> 00:02:19.400 gets murdered, well, now that's going to make the news 49 00:02:19.639 --> 00:02:23.199 and suddenly it'll be a national or international item. Well, 50 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:26.120 why do we think that celebrities somehow are more valuable 51 00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:29.560 than other victims? We kind of act as though they are. 52 00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:33.199 So how are we grounding human value? What makes one 53 00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:38.120 person newsworthy and somebody else not. We think from a 54 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:40.800 Christian worldview that every life has value, but how do 55 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:43.479 we ground it? So what we have here is this 56 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:46.680 is not a Pollyannish kind of Christian story where everyone's 57 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:49.159 going to get saved in the last chapter. And this 58 00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:53.280 is a realistic, gritty novel. And that's a large comic book. 59 00:02:53.319 --> 00:02:55.159 Because it's a graphic novel. It's kind of like you're 60 00:02:55.199 --> 00:02:59.400 watching a story boarded movie involving people who are struggling 61 00:02:59.439 --> 00:03:02.560 to understand who they are as they chase a serial 62 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:07.039 killer who is upping the ante every time he kills somebody. 63 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:11.879 This victim is of increasing cultural value, and what we're 64 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:15.120 trying to do is challenge the notion that people actually 65 00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:18.680 are of increasing value. We think that we want to 66 00:03:18.680 --> 00:03:20.919 be able to ground our identity and our value and 67 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:23.199 something that's transcendent. And so we're going to make a 68 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:25.120 case for this, but we're going to do it without 69 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:26.800 kind of, you know, beating you over the head. 70 00:03:27.080 --> 00:03:31.360 That's great. You know, many times I've heard people talk 71 00:03:31.400 --> 00:03:34.439 about animal sacrifice, you know, and one of the first 72 00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:36.280 things we see after the Garden of Eden is that 73 00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:40.639 God gives skins to Adam and Eve to cover up 74 00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:45.000 their nakedness right cover up there. Now they're aware of 75 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:48.360 you what is going on. But he has to kill 76 00:03:48.360 --> 00:03:51.199 an animal in order to make that. And so, you know, 77 00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:54.319 it's a consistent principle throughout Christianity that without the shedding 78 00:03:54.319 --> 00:03:56.560 of blood, there's no forgiveness of sin, right, And so 79 00:03:57.240 --> 00:04:00.800 a big part of that is that people understand in 80 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:05.360 the seriousness of sin because they see when even you 81 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:08.199 talk about the difference in human life, even when we 82 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:12.120 see a dead animal, we kind of stop for a moment. 83 00:04:12.400 --> 00:04:15.639 If we see a broken branch or a tree or whatever, 84 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:19.079 some plant that's that's been chopped up, you don't necessarily 85 00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:21.319 think anything about it. But if you see an animal 86 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:24.240 that's been chopped up, you got blood all over the place. 87 00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:29.360 Even that will make an impact on you, let alone 88 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:31.639 a human life. And if you point out all human 89 00:04:31.639 --> 00:04:34.879 life is valuable, it's not just celebrities, but it's again, 90 00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:37.480 it's like all life is valuable. The life is in 91 00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:41.720 the blood, and that is a real I think it's 92 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:43.839 a lesson that God was trying to give us to 93 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:47.680 drive home just how serious rebellion to him is. 94 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:51.079 Yeah, I think, as my son likes to point out, 95 00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:54.279 you know, as police officers, we have certain limitations because 96 00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:56.920 there are rights that humans have. So for example, I 97 00:04:56.920 --> 00:04:59.480 can't just kick down your door and enter your house 98 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:01.800 without a aren't without a reason to do it. But 99 00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:04.160 on the other hand, if someone is screaming in your 100 00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:07.560 house that they're being murdered, they're being killed, well, now 101 00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:10.920 I can kick down the door to save that person's life. 102 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:13.000 We actually think that the value of life. 103 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:15.920 Legally is more important than even some rights that you 104 00:05:16.040 --> 00:05:20.920 have to privacy. We recognize as police officers that humans, 105 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:23.759 the human life is important. Now, what I see in 106 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:26.439 culture is that you're right. What we have a tendency 107 00:05:26.439 --> 00:05:28.319 to do is the secular world just sees us as 108 00:05:28.360 --> 00:05:32.040 another evolved creature, another animal like all the other animals. 109 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:35.079 And what you see happening is that typically other animals 110 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:38.120 are now being afforded the same dignities that we would 111 00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:41.000 have in the past only have afforded humans. They're in 112 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:44.360 our restaurants, they're on the plane with you, they're everywhere, 113 00:05:44.439 --> 00:05:48.199 and they're there because we have minimized the difference between 114 00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:51.360 humans and other animals. Now here's what's interesting. You know, 115 00:05:51.399 --> 00:05:54.399 from scripture, if scripture is true, we are unique in 116 00:05:54.399 --> 00:05:56.839 the sense that we are image bearers. We bear the 117 00:05:56.920 --> 00:06:00.240 image of God. And the first thing that God does 118 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:04.079 when he gives us the identity, he creates Adam in 119 00:06:04.279 --> 00:06:08.360 his image, and then he gives Adam a name, an identity, 120 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:11.040 And the first thing he asks Adam to do is 121 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:14.399 to then turn and give an identity to all the 122 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:17.600 other animals. You know, the Christian story is an identity 123 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:19.519 story from the Old Testament all the way through the 124 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:23.360 New Testament. And so this is something we wanted to explore. Now, look, 125 00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:26.480 I could easily make that caze on paper and make 126 00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:28.040 it the way I just made it to you, or 127 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:31.079 I could tell you a story that we hope is 128 00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:33.720 so engaging that by the time you're done with it, 129 00:06:33.759 --> 00:06:35.759 you'll get this principle. Even though in this story, I 130 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:37.480 think if you were to read this book, you're going 131 00:06:37.519 --> 00:06:39.600 to get halfway through it before you even think to yourself, 132 00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:39.959 is this. 133 00:06:39.959 --> 00:06:40.839 A Christian book? 134 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:42.600 Because what we want to do is we want to 135 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:47.240 reach people with truth. In God's Truth is everyone's truth. 136 00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:49.120 You're stuck with it, whether you're Christian or not. If 137 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:51.319 it's true, it's true for everyone. So we thought we 138 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:54.160 could write a book in which we could make a 139 00:06:54.199 --> 00:06:58.680 case that even your unbelieving friends could read and not feel. 140 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:00.959 Like, oh, this is so preachy. You know this is no. 141 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:03.480 It turns out it's just describing the world the way 142 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:06.439 it really is. And this is what scripture does. It 143 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:10.319 describes the world, and it describes us the way we 144 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:12.879 really are. So you'll see that these characters, there are 145 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:15.959 only one Christian character in the entire book, and he's treated, 146 00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:18.800 for the most part the way that as a non 147 00:07:18.839 --> 00:07:22.279 believing cop I treated most Christian cops I knew, which 148 00:07:22.279 --> 00:07:25.399 I kind of marginalized them. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, here 149 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:28.199 comes to Christian view. Okay, great, and you'll see this 150 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:30.199 is probably true and many of the people who read 151 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:31.519 this book are going to say, but you know this 152 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:34.800 is true in my world too. My non Christian friends 153 00:07:34.839 --> 00:07:37.480 don't really you know, take my what I say seriously 154 00:07:37.480 --> 00:07:41.120 about this. So we wanted to create a narrative that 155 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:44.120 was very that depicts reality the way it is for 156 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:45.800 a lot of the readers. If we're going to read this, 157 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:48.680 you're going to recognize your own struggles trying to tell 158 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:51.519 people about Jesus, trying to tell people about what's true. 159 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:54.360 And so this is a book that may not land. 160 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:56.800 Every plane may not land safely at the end of 161 00:07:56.839 --> 00:07:59.480 the runway, because life is that way. 162 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:00.759 It's you can share. 163 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:03.720 I've got a father who's a cop, who's a detective, 164 00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:06.480 who is now retired, of course, and he's you know, 165 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:10.160 eighty five, and he is he is not interested in 166 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:13.879 hearing about the Gospel. And as many years as I've 167 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:16.519 spent trying to help him see it from the same 168 00:08:16.519 --> 00:08:20.680 perspective that I take as a detectivest, he is willfully 169 00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:24.439 rejecting anything that I tell him. Well, you probably have 170 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:26.240 someone in your life like that too, if you're ready 171 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:28.519 of this book. So we want to have a book 172 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:30.199 that reflects that reality as well. 173 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:33.720 Well, you know what I said earlier about just the 174 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:36.919 specialty of what is special about life in general, and 175 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:39.279 you're right, you know, we're in creating the image of God, 176 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:41.559 and there's a huge difference between us and the animals. 177 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:44.559 And one of the things that we are seeing now 178 00:08:44.840 --> 00:08:48.559 we talk about the dignity of human life, one of 179 00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:52.879 the things that we really have to be aware of 180 00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:55.960 the push that is coming against that, and we're seeing 181 00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:58.840 it across the board. Goes back to bef Skin and 182 00:08:58.879 --> 00:09:01.279 other people talking about, you know, beyond freedom and dignity, 183 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:03.759 they're just going to treat human beings like animals. And 184 00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:08.159 we see it more in the more contemporary writings of 185 00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:11.720 people like Juvil Harari just saying well, you know, we're 186 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:13.200 going to take away You're not going to have any 187 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:16.759 freedom or dignity. We're just going to control you as 188 00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:19.159 as we would an animal. And so I think that's 189 00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:22.399 a really important theme to drive home, and it's a 190 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:25.279 great way to do it in a detective novel, especially 191 00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:30.279 because everybody loves detective novels. They love you know, forensic 192 00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:32.000 novels and all the rest of this stuff. I mean, 193 00:09:32.039 --> 00:09:36.200 it is it's always captured the human imagination because it 194 00:09:36.279 --> 00:09:39.080 is about life and death, and it is also about 195 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:40.200 a mystery and a puzzleism. 196 00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:44.039 Yeah, it is, and this form of novels. I always 197 00:09:44.039 --> 00:09:45.960 wanted to write fiction, and I realized that there's a 198 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:49.000 difference between writing fiction and writing nonfiction. Okay, there's definitely 199 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:52.039 a different skill set. My son is an avid growing up. 200 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:54.519 He's now thirty six, he's been on the job thirteen years. 201 00:09:54.919 --> 00:09:58.039 He's you know, he's always an avid comic book reader. 202 00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:01.399 And I think if you are an avia reader in 203 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:04.279 a particular genre, well then you have a better shot 204 00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:07.240 at writing something in that genre. So so he this 205 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:09.879 is what we had to contribute was basically a script. 206 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:15.240 It's like a movie script. You know, we'll say a 207 00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:18.320 page one, he's going to have, you know, five panels. 208 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:20.759 These panels are going to be these scenes, these dialogue, 209 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:22.720 this action. Then we give it to a group of 210 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:26.759 illustrators that are really gifted illustrators. They're the same illustrators 211 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:31.159 that created that are Chosen graphic novel, so they're very gifted, 212 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:33.240 and they basically then do all the rest of the 213 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:36.200 heavy lifting. If people like this book, and I hope 214 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:40.080 they do, it's largely because it was illustrated so magnificently. 215 00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:43.360 I mean we first got it back and we're watching 216 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:47.039 how it's developing the characters. Yeah, I mean you see that, 217 00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:49.679 the character development, I'm like, wow, you know, that's actually 218 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:52.480 better than I had imagined, you know. So, so I 219 00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:58.240 think that this partnership between writers and creative artists had 220 00:10:58.279 --> 00:10:59.120 been really helpful. 221 00:10:59.399 --> 00:11:01.759 Yeah, we got a clip up there. Now a couple 222 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:04.440 of these different things. And I love the graphic novels 223 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:06.759 and the comic books, and of course I learned how 224 00:11:06.759 --> 00:11:09.600 to read with comic books. My mom would take me 225 00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:12.960 in tow before I started school. And this is back 226 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:14.759 in the silver Age of comics when they were a 227 00:11:14.799 --> 00:11:17.840 lot safer than they are now. Yes, they've gotten kind 228 00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:22.120 of they've pandered to adult or to college kids, I 229 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:24.159 should say, in terms of what they got, but they 230 00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:28.000 were pretty safe back in the late nineteen fifties and stuff. 231 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:30.639 And it was great because, like you point out, it 232 00:11:30.679 --> 00:11:33.360 is like a storyboard to a film. 233 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:36.600 And I wonderest thing about that is that my son 234 00:11:36.679 --> 00:11:38.879 will say this because he found my brother in law's 235 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:41.639 old comic book collection from the early nineteen sixties, and. 236 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:42.679 You're absolutely right. 237 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:47.039 There was far less objectional material in those old comic books. 238 00:11:47.039 --> 00:11:48.759 And what he told me is growing up as a 239 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:52.600 young Christian. He got his, of course's marching orders from scripture, 240 00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:56.039 but he found that a lot of his character development 241 00:11:56.840 --> 00:11:59.519 came from these comic books, especially Spider Man. You know, 242 00:11:59.559 --> 00:12:01.519 this this kid who's got to save the world. But 243 00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:03.360 he's going to a chance to go on this date. 244 00:12:03.399 --> 00:12:05.200 And of course, as soon as he gets to the 245 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:07.759 point of taking the girl out, this is when doctor 246 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:10.679 Octopus attacks and he's got to change. You know, I've 247 00:12:10.720 --> 00:12:13.399 got to act sacrificially. I want to do this thing, 248 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:16.200 but I need to do that thing. Well, I thought, really, 249 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:19.279 so you're telling me that some of your character was 250 00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:23.159 developed through comic books. But I realized that this is 251 00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:25.440 probably true for a lot of our young people. Then 252 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:28.840 issues that are sold to them under the rules of 253 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:32.840 fiction become the kinds of things that develop people's character. 254 00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:33.480 That's why we. 255 00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:38.279 As Christians need to be in this space, because you're right, 256 00:12:38.519 --> 00:12:41.360 what's happening. If you're reading comics or graphic novels today, 257 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:43.360 you're going to have to turn the blind eye to 258 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:46.919 a lot of offensive non Christian material. Yes, but can 259 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:51.399 we do a story that's every bit is gripping, entertaining, gritty, 260 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:55.879 but also teaches a Christian worldview, so that when character 261 00:12:55.960 --> 00:12:58.879 development is actually going to occur naturally as you're reading fiction, 262 00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:01.879 it's the kind of character that's also consistent with the 263 00:13:01.879 --> 00:13:04.279 teaching of scripture. That's what we're trying to do with 264 00:13:04.360 --> 00:13:05.120 this kind of a book. 265 00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:05.759 That's great. 266 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:07.440 Yeah, when we go back and you look at it's like, 267 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:12.600 you know, comparing a contemporary movie. The comic books of 268 00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:15.000 today were in graphic novels of today versus the stuff 269 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:17.200 back in the fifties. It's like a you know, Disney 270 00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:21.679 movie about about Davy Crockett or something, you know, versus 271 00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:27.039 movies that focus on a psychotic joker character, you know, 272 00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:29.639 for Batman. And now the villains have become the heroes 273 00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:32.720 of these things, and they've become really, really rough as 274 00:13:32.759 --> 00:13:35.039 you point out, you know, and when I was a kid, 275 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:38.600 the characters would and there was a reason for that. 276 00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:41.200 When they first started out, they were pretty rough, just 277 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:43.440 like films. And just like they had the Hayes code 278 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:46.120 for movies, they also came up with a comic book code. 279 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:48.080 And they said, if you're going to target kids with 280 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:52.279 this stuff, then you're gonna follow certain rules, and so 281 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:55.000 it was kind of quasi mandated that they would have 282 00:13:55.039 --> 00:13:59.159 to follow those rules. And the characters were really straight up, 283 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:03.559 and they were good and they were honorable characters. My 284 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:05.600 son Travis is working a board here. I used to 285 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:09.639 read him novels from Ga Hinty, And in those novels, 286 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:13.039 even the villains, the villains were better than our heroes today. 287 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:16.639 And I'm not joking, you know, they had better, higher ideals, 288 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:20.200 and they treated people better than the heroes treat people 289 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:24.120 today in our movies and so and fiction. So those 290 00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:25.919 things were there as matter of fact. That have the 291 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:27.840 always have the saint look like a stamp, and I 292 00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:29.399 never knew what that was when I was a kid. 293 00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:32.200 That was up on the cover of the thing, and 294 00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:34.799 that was saying that it had been certified and was 295 00:14:34.840 --> 00:14:36.759 with the comic book code. It's one of the reasons 296 00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:41.360 why Mad called itself a magazine because they didn't follow 297 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:44.080 that code. They were really sorry. They It wasn't anything 298 00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:46.159 that was sexual or violent or anything like it is 299 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:51.480 in the and the graphic novels today. But it was sarcastic, 300 00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:54.799 a lot of satire and everything like that, and so 301 00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:56.919 they were proud of the fact that they did not 302 00:14:57.039 --> 00:14:59.120 adhere to the code. And so I think the code 303 00:14:59.240 --> 00:15:02.919 was basically, you're going to present a good moral character 304 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:05.840 in our society. At that point in time, Christianity had 305 00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:09.080 a lot of influence on that. And really, even if 306 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:12.120 these people were not Christian, it was the Christian influence 307 00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:15.600 that was influencing the art and the culture. And you're right, 308 00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:17.360 we do need to take that back. 309 00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:18.559 Well and think about this. 310 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:21.639 The Christian theology tells us that there's an enigma of 311 00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:25.080 man that we are duplicit. We have the capacity for 312 00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:28.840 unbelievable altruism and goodness because we have been created in 313 00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:32.399 the image of God, but we also are deeply rebellious 314 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:35.919 and if I have inherited that sinful condition from Adam. 315 00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:38.440 So that's why we are these duplicit kind of beings. 316 00:15:38.440 --> 00:15:41.679 Now, what's interesting is we went from a point in 317 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:45.519 history where we would rather we preferred to write about 318 00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:49.440 what we could be than what we really are. Now 319 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:53.600 we've shifted, and yeah, it's true that we are duplicit. 320 00:15:53.679 --> 00:15:57.120 We are we have a capacity for both greatness and evil, 321 00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:01.399 but we want to focus on the greatness. We want 322 00:16:01.399 --> 00:16:03.840 to say Hey, this is the ideal we ought to 323 00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:06.279 aspire to. But I think what we're seeing right now, 324 00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:09.960 especially in comics, is that we're instead we're just sketching 325 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:12.679 out the characters as they really are, as dark as 326 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:15.360 their nature can also be. Well, look, I get it. 327 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:17.039 You're going to see in this book that we've been 328 00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:19.039 very realistic with all the detectives and they have a 329 00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:22.320 dark side. Okay, but we want to aim at something. 330 00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:24.120 And you know that old saying that if you aim 331 00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:26.559 at nothing, you hit it every time. That's exactly right. 332 00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:30.080 So we have to write stories. I think that aim 333 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:32.639 at something that is good. There ought to be some 334 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:36.840 example in the book that is not trite and trivialized 335 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:41.279 and stereotypes, but offers a solution to the problem that. 336 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:42.639 Everyone else is experiencing. 337 00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:44.960 And so hopefully, if we do this in a way 338 00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:47.360 that is compelling, you're going to come away from reading 339 00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:48.559 this book and you're going to have I think it 340 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:50.320 could for number one, if you're not a believer, I 341 00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:53.240 hope it'll open up your thinking to the possibility that 342 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:55.440 Christianity has something to teach you about how to live. 343 00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:57.399 But if you are a believer, I hope it's going 344 00:16:57.440 --> 00:17:00.360 to give you much more confidence. And also we want 345 00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:03.039 to have an alternative for believers who maybe want to 346 00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:06.079 have some fun in this space, this true crime graphic 347 00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:08.319 novel space, which right now, if you were to go online, 348 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:10.039 you're going to get a lot of stuff that you're 349 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:12.400 going to have to ignore some percentage of it if 350 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:14.319 you want to hold on to your Christian worldview. We 351 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:15.559 wanted something that you didn't. 352 00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:15.720 Have to do that. 353 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:18.240 Yeah, yeah, absolutely, right now, tell us a little bit 354 00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:22.960 about you know, you're also encouraging with this some deeper 355 00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:28.359 probing and some discussions about Christian worldview. Tell people what 356 00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:32.160 you've got an association with that conversation guide that it's also. 357 00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:34.200 Yeah, and I do think this is a gateway book 358 00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:35.400 for it going to be a gateway book for a 359 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:37.400 lot of people. So on the inside back cover, we 360 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:39.359 have a QR code that if you just hit that 361 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:43.359 QR code, it's going to open up our case closed booklet, 362 00:17:43.599 --> 00:17:46.440 which is a Case for the Resurrection in about forty pages. 363 00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:49.039 So it's going to take you a step further if 364 00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:52.839 you wanted to know, for example, why this particular character 365 00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:57.400 in our story maybe responds a little different differently to 366 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:00.000 the trauma. Well, the answer is in his Christian worldview. 367 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:01.720 Even though we're not we're just going to hint at it. 368 00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:03.640 We're not going to make it like a punch in 369 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:05.599 the face, but we want to give you a chance 370 00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:07.200 to go. Now, Look, if you're somebody who buys a 371 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:10.119 book today in our economy today, I feel like it's 372 00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:12.720 a big ask anymore for someone that's been similar between 373 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:14.599 fifteen and twenty dollars, depending on where you buy it, 374 00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:16.799 a book like this. So what we want to do 375 00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:20.119 is offer something that makes the price seem like it's reasonable. 376 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:22.759 So what we've done on our website at Coldcase Christianity 377 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:25.240 dot com is anyone who buys the book, yes, you 378 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:28.039 have access to that digital QR code, but also we 379 00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:30.400 want to send you a conversation guide that'll help you 380 00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:33.839 navigate the conversations that are going to flow out of 381 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:36.759 someone who reads this book. Also, we want to give 382 00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:40.359 you our ten or ten and a half hour thirty 383 00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:43.759 session Casemaker's Course. It's the same course I teach at 384 00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:47.519 Gateway Seminary here in southern California, and it's the course 385 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:51.880 that is fully robustly illustrated. It's all videos. If you 386 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:56.000 take this course, you will become a much better Christian casemaker. 387 00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:59.720 So when someone does have a question about the Christian 388 00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:02.000 world that maybe is prompted by a book like this 389 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:05.440 or anyone else's book, you'll be able to kind of 390 00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:07.720 hold your ground, to be able to make a case 391 00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:10.839 for why you want to hear my concern. If you 392 00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:13.480 really want to know what it is you love, what 393 00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:16.279 is your your your family loves, think about what it 394 00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:18.960 is they're capable of defending. Because it turns out whatever 395 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:21.400 it is you're capable of defending, that is your real God. 396 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:24.799 We just came out of the football draft from college 397 00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:27.359 football into the NFL, and I know people who can 398 00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:30.920 make a robust case for why so and so should 399 00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:33.480 have gotten drafted or didn't get drafted, or should have 400 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:35.000 gotten drafted in a different position. 401 00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:36.640