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Speaker 1: One of the obstacles to religious belief in the modern world,

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especially in a let's say, scientific materialist, reductionist world, is

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of course the question of miracles. People don't understand, you know,

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what are these miracles? Are they simply extraordinary things, supernatural

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quote unquote events that happen, And because they're supernatural, they

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convince people of the truth of a certain faith or

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a certain belief, and therefore they can get people to

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believe in something in a manner that issues the usual

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reasonable ways in which we evaluate whether something is true

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or not. You know, that is of course the criticism

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of a lot of the neu atheist types, and I

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thought it would be interesting to look at the question

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of miracles, of why it is that there are miracles

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in religion, why there are miracles in Christianity, what those

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miracles look like, what they mean, and what they possibly

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help us understand about how reality functions, and how they

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are not in fact simply freak events that issue normal,

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reasonable patterns of being, but rather they are events that,

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let's say, shine a brighter light on the way in

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which reality functions, and are even in some ways. The

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fact that they're so surprising and so extraordinary is because

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they show the pattern of reality in ways that are

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more than what we're used to seeing. They kind of

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compress reality into these hyper events we could call them,

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that seem to contain more meaning in them, and so

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they're not just freak events. So we'll look at that

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and hopefully it will help people at least understand. I

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can't prove to you that miracles exist, and that's not

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the point, but the point is to at least help

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people understand, you know, why miracles are there and what

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they can help us understand. This is Jonathan Pejol. Welcome

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to the Symbolic World. So before we start, if you

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appreciate what we're doing here the Symbolic World, please go

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to the symbolic world dot com. You can become a

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member of the Symbolic World and participate in a wonderful

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online community that is through our website that they have

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enjoy it, we're doing. Please consider supporting us. All right,

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So the question of miracles, now, the first thing that

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we need to get rid of is the idea that

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a miracle is simply some extraordinary thing that happens or

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some unexplainable things that happens. That is not what a

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miracle is. And so a miracle, you know, And so

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you can have unexplained things that happen that you don't

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know the causalities for. Of course, those types of things

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did happen to you all the time. You can also

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have things that happen in a very strange way. But

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usually what makes something a miracle is that it is

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a kind of strange thing that happened, something which doesn't

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have a complete explanation for it, let's say, at least

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in the way it's described. But that usually it points

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towards meaning. And that's the difference. So, you know, think

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about how if let's say you're walking, let's say in

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the middle of a forest, there's a cliff, and then

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a rock falls off the cliff and hits the ground.

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Now that's obviously not a miracle. That's something that happens. Now,

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what would make it a miracle, is I don't know.

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If I'm walking through that road and I get attacked

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by thieves and the thieves are going to rob me,

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and then suddenly the rock falls, it hits the thief

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in the head, the thief passes out, and then I

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walk away from the event unscathed. Now that's closer to

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a miracle. And it's the same event that happened, but

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one of them, you know, it's helping me towards a purpose,

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and the other it's unexplained and the causality of the

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event don't seem related, and it's pointing me towards the purpose,

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and the other one is just something that happened. And

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so this is the way to understand miracles. Now in scripture,

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I'm going to use the miracles of Christ because trying

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to just you know, we could use all kinds of

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other types of miracles, but the miracles of Christ are

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particularly exemplary in this thing. And so the miracles of

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Christ are always pointed towards a restoration of purpose and

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a capacity to show more meaning in an event than

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what is usually normal for an event to happen. The simple,

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the simplest example of them is, of course, the healing

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miracles and so when Christ heals someone, what he's doing

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is he's restoring something to its purpose. Now, a purpose

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is something which is not in the factuality of an event, right,

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and so if you look at the facts of something,

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you cannot discern the purpose. Purpose has to do with life,

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Purpose has to do with consciousness, Purpose has to do

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with intelligence. These are the mechanism by which we understand purpose,

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and the purposes are not in the reduction the reduced

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factualities of an event. And so this is what I

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mean is that there's no scientific difference between a sick

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by and a healthy body, Like both of them have cells.

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Both of them, you know, have a certain amount of cells,

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are doing certain things, are causal to certain possibilities, and

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you know, the idea that one is better than the

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other is not cannot be captured by simple analytic concerns

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of science and of calculating quantities and predicting, predicting, let's say,

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predicting phenomena by the capacity to appropriately quantify the phenomena

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and show its different mechanical causalities. There's no difference between

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a healthy body and a sick body. That the difference

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the gap between the healthy body and the sick body

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is perceived in the sense of purpose. We know what

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ideally a human being should be and even that you know,

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and we have a sense like we see certain humans

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that we admire. We see certain humans that are doing

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things that we care about and that we can see

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that you know, we care about those those things, and

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people that are able to do them, they they are

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better people, not in a moral sense, but they're more

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they're closer to what we think a person should be.

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And that is the gap between a sick body and

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a healthy body. And so when someone gets sick, or

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when they're infirmed, or when they lose a hand, or

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when something happens to them, when they're blind, when they

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can't hear, whatever, we can see the gap between their

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situation and what they would like to be and the

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or the or what most people see as being closer

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to the ideal of what it is to be human.

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And this is what the miracle does. The miracle reorients

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the body towards its purpose. It's able to take something

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which we can see the gap between the purpose that

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and the reality and then bring it back towards purpose.

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And so this is what miracles always do, is and

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in doing that, what it what it what the miracle

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does is that it reveals that purpose. It makes something

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shine because in restoring it to its purpose, it's showing

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you what is the ideal? What is the reason for

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these things to exist? And this is, of course, like

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I said, what miracles are always doing. Now the idea.

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The problem is that this miracle, you could say, is

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there all the time. It's there kind of hidden in

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the world all the time, which is that you cannot

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get the qualities, the higher qualities of something from its

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lower constituents. And so the lower constituents of a body.

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Let's say you take, you take again, and we take.

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Let's use the sports team. I always like that because

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it's very simple. You know, a sports team is doing

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a bunch of stuff, right, They're dribbling, they're passing the ball,

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they're doing all these things. And if there was like

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an alien that came and looked at what they were doing,

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they couldn't discern just from the constituents of the game,

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what the reason for the game is, what the purpose

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of the game is. The only way they would be

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able to do it is through analogy. And so what

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they would do is they would look at the constituents

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of the game, and then they would they would create

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an analogy to something that they already know it's function.

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And so if I look at basket, if I've never

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seen basketball before, I know what a sport is, and

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I know what I know how a sports function because

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I've seen baseball or football. And so I look at

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basketball and I see the things they're doing. They're running,

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they're bouncing things, they're throwing things, they're throwing them to

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each other, and I'm like, what the hell are they doing?

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And then finally I get an insight and I think, oh,

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this is like this other being that I've already identified

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its higher qualities, and in doing that, and then maybe

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I compare it to I see that it's similar to

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what they do during during uh let's say football or

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soccer or bath or baseball. And then all of a sudden,

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I say, oh, it's a sport, right, But the only

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way I can do that is by analogy to other

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higher identities. And then suddenly I get an insight into

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what it is that the sport is doing. That jump

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that's a that's a miracle, folks, that's what the miracle is. Now,

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the miracle in the the more the most specific sense.

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The reason why they appear miraculous to us is because

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the person doing it is restoring the being to its

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purpose in a in a in a like in a

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in a seemingly magical way. It's like, all of a sudden,

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this sick person becomes healthy and then you see what

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it's like. But you know you could see that. So

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think about you know, think about a sports game again,

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and the players they're not We do it all the time,

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by the way, this restoring towards purpose. You know, the

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players aren't playing really well. And then the coach comes

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down I've mentioned this in another video, like a profit

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comes into the game, into the team, and then through will,

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through influence, through meaning, through all the things that miracles

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are constituted in. Right, the coach takes his wand out

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and hits it on the ground and said, you know,

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now you will focus again and you'll come back together

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towards the reason and brings people back into the reason

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for the sport and then reveals the meaning for the sport.

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And doing that and that is like a little miracle.

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It's a very small one. It's not a very big one,

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but it's a little miracle. All of a sudden, these

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players are now coming back together in a dance, in

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the proper dance towards the purpose that brings them together

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in the first place. It's a kind of restoration. And

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so this so a way to understand the structure is

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that when you don't see the purpose of things, it's

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something akin to death. It's something akin to death in

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the sense that you have a bunch of particles that

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aren't aligned or you don't know how they're aligned towards

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something towards a purpose. So imagine, now you have a

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dead body and then you have a living body. The

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dead body has as many particles, has as many cells,

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has as many all these things. Then the living body

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maybe those cells are dead. But what's the difference, Like,

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you have as much matter in a dead body than

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you do in a living body, and so the dead

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body has all this stuff. And so the difference between

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something that's dead relatively in the sense that you don't

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know what its purpose is. And then all of a

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sudden you see the purpose and it comes together, and

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all of a sudden, now this massive facts and this

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massive stuff appears into the reason why it's together. In

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the first place, and that is a kind of you

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can think about that in the experience as a breath

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from heaven. Right, the meaning descends onto the thing, and

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then all of a sudden you can see in your

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experience that it is one. But you can do that

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through will too. It's not just seeing it that it

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is one. You can actually make it one. And like

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I said, the coach, for example, that comes into the

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basketball team by his influence and his will, he says,

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be one, and then the players respond and they come together,

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and all of a sudden, this dead team that was

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now everybody was fragmenting and moving in all their different directions,

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is now joining together towards this purpose, all right. And

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so this type of little miracle happens all the time constantly.

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You know. How can I say that it's hard for

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people to realize it. Like it's like that's what a

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marriage ceremony is, you know. And so you have two

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people that are kind of together. They you know, you're not.

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It's not clear what they are. And so then you

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have a ceremony and then someone comes and says, I

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declare you man and wife. You are now married. And

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so all of a sudden, the body appears, the purpose appears,

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and now they're aligned towards the reason why they're there

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in the first place. You know, there are so many

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of these types of examples that really it is in

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some ways, like you know, it's the capacity to gather

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things into a body, and so this is what the

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miracles are always doing. And so it can appear in

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different ways. It can appear as a kind of mastery

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of nature, because that's what you're doing when you're doing that,

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when you're a coach and you come down into the

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basketball team and you say, through spiritual influence, through speaking,

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through the capacity to influence people's minds and to influence

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people's attention and to influence people, you're able to gather

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them into a body and all of a sudden to

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become one and in an purpose. It's like, that's what,

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that's what magic is, folks. I don't know what to say.

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It's like, that's that's really what the the that's really

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what the deepest aspect of the magic is the way

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that C. S. Lewis, for example, talks about the magic

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in the world, and so that can appear as a

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type of mastery of nature, you know, and so nature

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is chaotic things, things don't function, and then you you're

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able to bring them together. So for example, Christ healing,

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you know, stopping the storm, or Christ walking on water,

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or all these things that are just weird and strange.

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What they're doing in the event of the of the

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thing is they're manifesting at an even higher level, this

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type of mastery of nature through being, through logos, through

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through spiritual influence, that it shows you how this, how

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this works, and so and the reason why, the reason

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why they these look strange. On August twenty seventh, we

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are going to start to ascend the mountain of Purgatory.

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Richard and I continue on the second Dante class, so

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you can please go and sign up. You know, the

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first class was just an absolute blast and everybody really

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enjoyed it. So we're hoping that everybody will continue on

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the track with us.

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Speaker 2: And yes, so we're as Jonathan said, we're starting August

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to twenty seventh. You can get the course now at

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Symbolic World Courses. There are payment plans and everything there

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to make it convenient for you. It's going to be incredible.

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Purgatorio is actually my favorite book of the whole comedy

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to teach. It's the one that most people when you're

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in school you start, you read in front of them.

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That's all you read. If you read Dante at all

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in like high school or called, you probably only read Inferno.

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Purgatory is my favorite one to teach. It's the one

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that is kind of, you could say, in a certain sense,

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the most relevant to where many of us are in

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our Christian life. That is to say, Purgatorio is about

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the purification, right, It's about the process of becoming saints

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and so whereas you know, Inferno is like about sort

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of rejecting sin. And then Paradise is about what is

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what even is holiness? And Paradise is the hardest one

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to teach. We are going to be doing it later

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this year. Paradise is the hardest one to sease though,

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because it's very hard to explain to somebody exactly what

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it means to be holy. But I think all of

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us can understand what it's like to try to become holy.

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So anyway, join us for Purgatorio. It's kind of be

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really awesome. All the juicy stuff is in Inferno, you know,

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because like it's really fun to look at these sinners

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getting there you know what's coming to them or whatever.

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But Purgatorio is in many ways it's the most practical

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because it's it really hits us right we're at right now.

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So August to twenty seven of the folks, please please

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please come and join us for the class. You won't

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regret it. It'll be five amazing weeks of really getting

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deep into the question of what does it mean to

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be purified? And I think you'll enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: So all right, we'll see there everybody. The reason why

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they these look strange, the best way to understand it

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is to understand that they're like a missive from a

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higher aspect of reality. This sounds weird when I say it,

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It sounds kind of woo woo. There's nothing woo woo

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about it. That is, the players that are not archaotic

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and not functioning together right, the only way that they

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can now come together into one is that they receive

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a purpose from heaven. They connect to a purpose from

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above them. And you can't find that purpose in the

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things they're doing, like I said, But if they perceive

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it and now they come together and they participate in it,

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now all of a sudden they become a unified body.

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That is, that is manifesting the influence of that which

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is above them, which is the reason why they're there,

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the reason of the basketball game. Okay, now there are

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other there are higher levels of that that that there

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are ways in which all of reality can come together

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into higher participations. That is, this, this pattern of influence

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from above which coheres reality below, is one which happens

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at every level of reality. It doesn't just happen at

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the level of the of the of the coach and

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the basketball players. It happens in the body of the

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basketball players, because the basketball player, you know, has all

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these processes in his body that aren't related to playing basketball.

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But then all of a sudden, the coach comes in,

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and the coach says, be one as a team. And

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then the player is inspired, and then he says to

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his body, he says, okay, now be one as a body,

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and now we're going to move towards the purpose that

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we're receiving from the coach. And so he does the

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same to his body as the coach does to the

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basketball team, and is able to mobilize reality towards reason

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and purpose. You know, this is and so the idea

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in a miracle is that that happens at levels that

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are beyond that this one. That there are ways in

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which reality can come together and participate and reveal the

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meaning of things in ways that are so surprising that

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they seem to break or to not account or that

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the parts that constituted don't account for the qualities of

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that which appears higher. And so it's a it's it

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appears as a kind of glimmer. There's all these there's

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all these these images that Christ uses to talk about this,

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which is that there are certain facts that aren't flat facts.

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There are certain facts that are actually a glimmer of

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that which is coming down from above, of the purpose

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that is coming down from above. And usually those appears

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kind of shining. You kind of see things come together

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and something is shining. He talks about the pearl in

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the field. There are different ways that Christ talks about it.

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And you know, can I say this, and that's that's

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why we when we see that, that's when that's why

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we celebrate that, you know. And so for example, like

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when we see a someone being excellent at anything, we

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tend to find that amazing. Why because they are able

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to bring matter into purpose in a way that that

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really does it, you know, does it in a way

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that reveals the purpose very strongly. And so it's like

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we have this sense of awe when we see someone

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do something with excellence. Well, that is possible at higher

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levels as well, and that is what we're seeing when

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we see a miracle. So Christ's miracles are always like that.

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They're always about revealing mastery of the cosmos, revealing the

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way in which reality comes together in order to celebrate

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that which is higher, even higher than what we can

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that we tend to perceive. And the ultimate miracle is

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the resurrection. Why is it the resurrection, because that's what

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all the miracles are. All the miracles are aspects of

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the resurrection. The resurrection is only the one that is

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in some ways the most condensed, most compressed, and reveals

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the most about reality. And why does it reveal the

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most about reality? Because that is the that is exactly

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how we perceive unity in beings. We perceive unity in

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beings when we see multiple things that are that are dead,

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dead to the identity in the sense that they don't

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they don't see we don't know why, or they don't

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seem to participate in some higher purpose, and then all

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of a sudden they do. Either we perceive that they

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do because we couldn't see it before. We're confused or

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were remuddled, or they align themselves towards purpose through will,

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through consciousness, through intelligence, to all these things in the

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way in which humans and life interacts with the world. Right,

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there is a difference between something alive and something dead.

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And that's the difference. It's the it's the capacity of

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multiplicity to join together in purpose into into one unified body.

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And the resurrection is the image of that in a

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way that is so strong that it breaks all our

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normal It breaks all our normal ways that we think

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things exist, of course, and it should it should, because

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just like the purpose of the basketball team coming down

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onto the players and bringing them together in this in

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this body, that makes us wonder and celebrate and look

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at you know, the pass and all of a sudden,

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the guy coming behind and he just passes it there

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and there's the guys just all of a sudden there,

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and you know, he jumps up and gives it to

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the other guy and then he puts it into the basket,

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and you're like, how did they do that? How do

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they even know where they were? And there's this sense

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of awe that all of a sudden, all these players

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are like coming together in this dance towards purpose. And

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it's like, take that and scale that up, right, take

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that experience and scale that up. And that's what the miracle.

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That's what the miracle is. And the resurrection is the

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the ultimate miracle because it reveals the very structure of reality,

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reality and consciousness, reality in intelligence, reality and will, and

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the manner in which being constrains multiplicity into unities. And

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so you know, and I know that, like I'm not

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going to convince atheists about whether or not the resurrection happens,

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you know, whether or not these miracles happened, but hopefully

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you can at least understand that it's not completely ridiculous,

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that it's not just a bunch of arbitrary things that

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we believe and that, you know, because they break the

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rules of nature, we believe them. It has to do

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with levels of emergence and qualities that show themselves in

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multiplicity in ways that cannot be accounted for in multiplicity.

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And it's just that it's happening at levels that are

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higher than what we're used to perceiving, and so that's

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my attempt at helping people at least understand it. Like

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I said, I know I'm not going to convince everyone,

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but hopefully it's hopefully it's enough to help you at

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least think about it and think about the fact that

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you know, this is not just ridiculous things that people

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believe in order to justify their belief. They're actually trying

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to pierce into the relationship between existence and this weird

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thing that we have as intelligent beings, which is intelligence consciousness.

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You know, the idea of constraining reality through will and

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through and through those things and how that comes together.

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So thanks your attention everybody. I'm probably going to circle

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back towards this at some point because I know it's

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a big issue. It's hard to talk about, but hopefully

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we can get closer and closer and I can maybe

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use some examples of some miracles a little more precisely

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to help people see what it is that I'm talking about.

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So thanks for your attention everyone, and talk to you

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very soon. Bye bye. If you enjoy these videos and podcasts,

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00:26:58,319 --> 00:27:00,759
please go to the Symbolic world dot com com website

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00:27:00,839 --> 00:27:03,279
and see how you can support what we're doing. There

437
00:27:03,319 --> 00:27:06,480
are multiple subscriber tiers with perks. There are apparel in

438
00:27:06,519 --> 00:27:09,119
books to purchase. So go to the Symbolic World dot

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00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,039
com and thank you for your support.