Speaker 1: Big Food and Beyond.
Speaker 2: With Cliff and Bubo.
Speaker 1: These guys are your favorites, so like to subscribe and
Speaker 1: read it. I'm star and meon Grates on us today
Speaker 1: listening watching limb always keep its watching.
Speaker 3: And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo Fay.
Speaker 3: Greetings everyone, This is Matt Pruitt. Just wanted to hop
Speaker 3: on and give you a quick introduction to the episode
Speaker 3: that you're about to hear. You know, over the years
Speaker 3: that we've been doing these Q and A episodes, we've
Speaker 3: gotten a lot of submissions from people asking for book recommendations,
Speaker 3: you know, required reading, essential reading, things of that nature.
Speaker 3: And so in October of twenty twenty three, Cliff, Bobo
Speaker 3: and myself recorded in an episode for our members only podcast, Beyond,
Speaker 3: Bigfoot and Beyond, dedicated to some of our favorite books
Speaker 3: about the Sasquatch and other really to topics. When I
Speaker 3: was compiling the questions for the January twenty twenty five
Speaker 3: Q and A episode, we had quite a few more
Speaker 3: requests for book recommendations, so I thought it'd be a
Speaker 3: good idea to take the members only episode that we
Speaker 3: recorded back in October twenty three and release that here
Speaker 3: on the main feed, So you're going to hear a
Speaker 3: member's only episode being released here on our main podcast
Speaker 3: feed for the first time. And we also compiled a
Speaker 3: list of all the books that are mentioned in this episode.
Speaker 3: So if you click the link in the show notes
Speaker 3: to our Patreon to the membership section, you'll see that
Speaker 3: post available there if you want to see all the
Speaker 3: books listed in one place, so you don't have to
Speaker 3: write them down if you're driving or traveling or anything
Speaker 3: of that nature. So hope you enjoyed this episode that
Speaker 3: we originally recorded for our members, and hope you find
Speaker 3: the recommendations useful. So we're thinking that maybe we could
Speaker 3: just wrap about some of our favorite Sasquatch related books
Speaker 3: because we're still getting so many questions about what books
Speaker 3: would we recommend to people. Yeah, remember we talked about
Speaker 3: like the Klobo's Book Club, which we will do deep
Speaker 3: dives in the future on specific books, but maybe for
Speaker 3: now we just talk about our top three or top
Speaker 3: five recommendations that you would offer to people those sorts
Speaker 3: of things.
Speaker 2: Okay, cool, Well, what would you recommend We've already started recording.
Speaker 4: Oh, okay, there's a wide range people people that have
Speaker 4: like a extensive bigfoot libraries of their own personal books.
Speaker 4: And then there's people that just kind of are fans
Speaker 4: of the show that don't really have any So I
Speaker 4: guess who we start with.
Speaker 2: That well, I'd say, just yeah, just choose one, I think.
Speaker 2: And because you know, there's been people, there are people
Speaker 2: who have been into this thing for a while, and
Speaker 2: maybe they haven't read the book you're mentioning because they
Speaker 2: a different book got them going.
Speaker 4: You know, yeah, I think, you know, I think, well,
Speaker 4: I mean, if you're a reader, I mean, if you
Speaker 4: should read one book, i'd say prove it the phenomenal
Speaker 4: Sasquash if you want to really kind of go through it.
Speaker 4: And I enjoyed the historical I love the historical parts
Speaker 4: of it. And I think if you start with Sanderson,
Speaker 4: you know, back in sixty one, nineteen sixty one, I
Speaker 4: think that's a great place to start.
Speaker 2: It is. But I don't like his writing style. You don't, no, no,
Speaker 2: I don't like it. It's a little archaic and weird
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 4: I kind of like that about it.
Speaker 2: I like the book, don't get me wrong. It has
Speaker 2: a lot of great information in it, but that's not
Speaker 2: it doesn't flow easily from the page to my brain.
Speaker 3: I would agree with that. And a lot of the
Speaker 3: language is sort of archaic because you know, we were
Speaker 3: still in like the figurative dark ages of understanding of
Speaker 3: apes and hominoid evolution, and a lot of the fossils
Speaker 3: that are relevant hadn't even been found yet, and so
Speaker 3: there's a lot of things that are a bit outdated
Speaker 3: in terms of the unfolding discovery of the history of
Speaker 3: pre human ancestors and human relatives. But yeah, I would
Speaker 3: that is one of my top five for sure.
Speaker 4: But it gives you an idea like what people were
Speaker 4: like when you read the next books, like this is
Speaker 4: what they're like, this is the first thing they went
Speaker 4: off of. You know, it kind of just gives you.
Speaker 4: It lets you into the mindset of the people of
Speaker 4: the time and when you factor and how would they
Speaker 4: do about what you just the things you just mentioned,
Speaker 4: how little was done in Garston nowadays, Like how the
Speaker 4: thought process that came to their conclusions and stuff is
Speaker 4: I think pretty fascinating.
Speaker 3: Oh, I would agree with that. I think it's good
Speaker 3: to visit after maybe, I mean, to me, I would
Speaker 3: always recommend starting with greens Apes among Us, that would
Speaker 3: be the first ultimate first book.
Speaker 2: See, I don't even know if I would agree with that. Well,
Speaker 2: you were wrong, Cliff, Well, I could very well be wrong.
Speaker 2: But here perfect here, But here's my complaint about it.
Speaker 2: I love the first half or more of it, but
Speaker 2: by the time you're getting two thirds of the way through,
Speaker 2: it comes down. Apes among Us turns into the thing
Speaker 2: on February ninth, nineteen seventy four, so and so and
Speaker 2: wherever Kentucky and saw one run across the road. Bubba,
Speaker 2: it was brown. And then the next paragraph is a
Speaker 2: different rattling of statistics. You know, it kind of runs.
Speaker 2: At some point, it seems to me that Apes among
Speaker 2: Us and I love the book, it's a great book.
Speaker 2: I'm not bashing it. But if I have a complaint
Speaker 2: about it, which I kind of do, it turns into
Speaker 2: a rattling of this happened, this happened, this happen, and
Speaker 2: it kind of loses the narrative thread that I felt
Speaker 2: that really held it together for the first part of
Speaker 2: the book. Yeah yeah, I mean, am I raw? I mean,
Speaker 2: like you agree with But what about you, Matt. I
Speaker 2: know that you're that's a that's your number one go
Speaker 2: to book. Am I off base on that? Or what
Speaker 2: are your opinion? What's your opinion on that?
Speaker 3: I think he does a really good job. First of all,
Speaker 3: he's such a reliable narrator, and he has a much
Speaker 3: more accessible writing style than most because he was an
Speaker 3: Ivy League educated journalist and so he was a great writer,
Speaker 3: and he had sort of an editorial mind as a writer,
Speaker 3: which is probably extremely helpful, you know, for writing a
Speaker 3: book as big as that is. I like the way
Speaker 3: it's broken out, you know, it does become sort of
Speaker 3: a presentation of various cases, especially because essentially you have
Speaker 3: those beginning portions where he's like introducing the subject, talking
Speaker 3: about the historical record, and then his sort of entry
Speaker 3: through the centennial Sasquatch, Hunt, Bluff Creek, the classics Patterson.
Speaker 3: But then it does sort of move into these regional
Speaker 3: breakouts of reports that have occurred. So there's you know,
Speaker 3: like the Mississippi water Web, Wolli Booger is, the Canadian scene,
Speaker 3: Eastern action. But once he gets through that, then it
Speaker 3: shifts back into like, all right, there's a chapter about footprints,
Speaker 3: where are the bones, screams in the night, you know, vocals.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the statistical analysis that stuff is cool. But in
Speaker 2: the middle there, I think it gets trapped in this quagmire.
Speaker 2: You know it does.
Speaker 3: But I think for a lot of people who are
Speaker 3: new ish to the subject, it's really enlightening for them
Speaker 3: to see the number of people across North America that
Speaker 3: were reporting these things even in the mid twentieth century
Speaker 3: and all the things that we think of now, because
Speaker 3: it's really easy to get stuck in modern times. And
Speaker 3: I did this with Sanderson's book too, where things would
Speaker 3: sort of emerge out of reports that seemed new to me,
Speaker 3: and then I would revisit Sanderson and go, oh, he
Speaker 3: picked up on that same pattern in sixty one, where
Speaker 3: you see, oh Green picked up on this same pattern
Speaker 3: in the late sixties or early seventies. And so that's
Speaker 3: sort of a reinforcing thing to think that the some
Speaker 3: of the things that feel like newer discoveries, like twenty
Speaker 3: first century discoveries, were actually present even back then, which
Speaker 3: strengthens the case for the reality of the subject right
Speaker 3: right now.
Speaker 2: If I had to modify this at all, see, I
Speaker 2: wouldn't go to apes among us first, I would go
Speaker 2: to the best of Sasquatch Bigfoot, which of course is
Speaker 2: a compilation of John's three other books that those smaller
Speaker 2: pamphlet books. I find those to be more readable and digestible.
Speaker 2: And the fact that they were all put together into
Speaker 2: one book by Hancock House Press, The Best of Sasquatch Bigfoot,
Speaker 2: I think that would be my go to John Green
Speaker 2: book for the Newbiet because that covers a lot of
Speaker 2: the historic stuff, the foundational things in Bluff Creek and
Speaker 2: British Columbia, the stuff the early things that John everybody
Speaker 2: else looked into. But and of course Apes among Us
Speaker 2: is the next step after that. See, I would have
Speaker 2: gone to Best of Sasquatch Bigfoot first for that reason,
Speaker 2: because at that point Apes among Us build upon best
Speaker 2: of you know these other books. You know, you're the Sasquatch,
Speaker 2: and then the other ones that are escaping me right
Speaker 2: now you know what they are.
Speaker 3: No, that's a great point.
Speaker 4: See.
Speaker 3: I started. The first book I read was Crets's book,
Speaker 3: and so it was very because I hadn't studied any
Speaker 3: like evolutionary biology or anthropology at that point, and so
Speaker 3: it was very difficult because I just that was like
Speaker 3: first contact with a lot of those terms, and I
Speaker 3: still love that book, and I revisited a lot, and
Speaker 3: so Green's was more like, I'm following a reliable narrator
Speaker 3: who's walking me through this whole world that is the
Speaker 3: Sasquatch subject. And so yeah, I do think that's a
Speaker 3: great point though, that the best of Bigfoot Sasquatch would
Speaker 3: be a great one. Another great one is Chris Murphy's
Speaker 3: Either Meet the Sasquatch or the second edition Know the Sasquatch,
Speaker 3: because there's just so much. There's a lot of information there,
Speaker 3: but you will never find a better collection of images.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the perfect coffee table book on sasquatch. Honestly beautiful,
Speaker 2: glossy book. The pictures are all in color, or at
Speaker 2: least the ones that were taken in color originally are
Speaker 2: all in color, because there's certainly black and white photographs
Speaker 2: in there. And it's big, it's glossy, it's very very visual.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of but despite the fact that it's
Speaker 2: very visual pact full of pictures, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: really great informational texts in there as well. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: they have the text and the information combined with the photographs.
Speaker 2: It's a really powerful thing. It's just fantastic and and
Speaker 2: a lot of people may not remember, but there it
Speaker 2: was originally published I think with the like a leather
Speaker 2: bound cover or something like that. Really yeah, and it
Speaker 2: was also in a hardback I don't know if you
Speaker 2: guys have the hardback version or not. I have an
Speaker 2: autographed hard cover by and you know John Green and
Speaker 2: Steinberg and Murphy, they all autographed that one that was
Speaker 2: the original one. But I couldn't have. I believe that
Speaker 2: there was a leather bound edition as well.
Speaker 4: Oh I did have that. I think I still have it.
Speaker 2: You should, I hope. So it's probably worth quite a bit.
Speaker 4: I think I paid one hundred and fifty for it.
Speaker 2: You know, you have a hell of a book collection, Boves,
Speaker 2: you really do. Steven Stroyford, who the owner of the
Speaker 2: establishment that was once so it's called big Foot Books,
Speaker 2: said you were his best customer there for a long time.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I spent four grand in there in one year.
Speaker 2: Geez geez, Well what was some of the walkaways you got?
Speaker 4: Man?
Speaker 2: What would would you walk away with?
Speaker 4: Just like first edition stuff like rare stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this all goes in You're safe, right, Yeah?
Speaker 4: I had more, but I gave him I gave him
Speaker 4: away his presence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're kind of like that. You're generous to a
Speaker 2: fault if I don't say so myself. Yeah, but you
Speaker 2: mentioned Krantz's book. That Krantz's book was really influential upon me.
Speaker 2: It wasn't the first big Foot book I ran across.
Speaker 2: I think one of John Green's, one of the paperback ones.
Speaker 2: I don't remember which one on the Track of the
Speaker 2: Sasquatch or You're the Track Sasquatch or something like that.
Speaker 2: Those may have been amongst the first, because I remember
Speaker 2: looking through the college library that I often mentioned is
Speaker 2: what kind of got me into this, And I think
Speaker 2: I ran across thows and oh this is kind of
Speaker 2: interesting and kind of started leafing through it, you know,
Speaker 2: or the Sasquatch file. That's the last one I finally
Speaker 2: came to me. It was kind of like looking at
Speaker 2: those and oh, this is interesting, and then I ran
Speaker 2: across it was either Mysterious Monsters on Trial or no, no,
Speaker 2: is that right? Mysterious Monsters on Trial? That's right, like
Speaker 2: monster man like okay, the other yeah, another m word
Speaker 2: man like Monsters on Trial? Or was it there was
Speaker 2: one called Sasquatch and that's always called at a yellow cover.
Speaker 2: I think A Mrcotic was his name. He was one
Speaker 2: of the It was a compilation of journal articles written
Speaker 2: by scientists. Yeah, and Krantz was a co editor on
Speaker 2: one of those, I think.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he submitted some of those papers. So yeah, there's
Speaker 3: the big compendiums. Yeah, or the scientists look at the
Speaker 3: sasquatch one and two man like monsters on trial and
Speaker 3: then the sasquatch and other hominidsmids.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was my baptism into the science of bigfoot.
Speaker 2: I think I might have like perused through some of
Speaker 2: the sighting reports in the John Green book, But when
Speaker 2: I started reading those cover to cover multiple times, that
Speaker 2: really struck me. That really really struck me, as like,
Speaker 2: holy crap, these things are real. You're kidding me.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I revisit those a lot, and you know, I reference
Speaker 3: those in writing the book too. And I'm the Krantz
Speaker 3: book too. I love It just wasn't the best first
Speaker 3: contact for a kid from North Georgia, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 4: I suppose you really read down there.
Speaker 3: Well, it was sort of like a calling to Okay,
Speaker 3: well I need to learn these things. And I rose
Speaker 3: to the challenge of trying to be more equip more
Speaker 3: well equipped to make sense of everything. So those sorts
Speaker 3: of like, that's why I really enjoyed challenging reads or
Speaker 3: technical reads, because it's an opportunity to learn. But in
Speaker 3: terms of yeah, I think I came to it expecting
Speaker 3: a different thing that I eventually found in apes among
Speaker 3: us I had.
Speaker 2: I still have my weather beaten copy of the Krantz Book.
Speaker 2: I would take that to Bluff Creek every time I went,
Speaker 2: starting in nineteen ninety three or four whenever that I
Speaker 2: think was four, and when I started going, Yeah, it
Speaker 2: was nineteen ninety four when I started going to Bluff Creek. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I just beat the crap.
Speaker 4: Out of that book.
Speaker 2: It's like missing a cover, I think maybe the title,
Speaker 2: page two. Just that poor book has been all over
Speaker 2: the place with me. I used to take it and
Speaker 2: read it on the trips, read it at night, read it.
Speaker 2: And I probably have read that book, The Krantz Book,
Speaker 2: probably no less than thirty times, wow, and probably much
Speaker 2: closer to fifty because I would just plow through that
Speaker 2: thing once or twice a year. You know, I've been
Speaker 2: doing this for twenty nine years now. So like assuming
Speaker 2: that in the early days, if I'd read that book
Speaker 2: three or four times in a year, or in certain
Speaker 2: chapters more than others, by the way, maybe I wouldn't
Speaker 2: do it cover to cover. I've been through that an
Speaker 2: awful lot, an awful lot. It's very very influential upon me.
Speaker 2: It has as flaws, of course, but it was very
Speaker 2: very influential upon me realizing that, like, oh, yeah, you
Speaker 2: can do stuff. Because I've always been interested in amateur science.
Speaker 2: I'm an amateur astronomer. I've got a pretty good telescope,
Speaker 2: for example, and I love that. I'm certainly an amateur
Speaker 2: marine biologist, which is hence my love of fishing in general.
Speaker 2: And I saw that there was a niche, there was
Speaker 2: a place for amateurs here to contribute, because frankly, the
Speaker 2: academics aren't carrying their weight. They aren't doing what they're
Speaker 2: supposed to be doing, which is following their curiosity to
Speaker 2: the extent they find answers. Therefore it's up to us.
Speaker 2: And when I started reading about the science that was
Speaker 2: being done, it's, oh, my gosh, what an opportunity here,
Speaker 2: What an opportunity to possibly contribute just a little tiny
Speaker 2: bit for the good of a subject that is larger
Speaker 2: than me.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff
Speaker 2: and Bobo will be right back after these messages. But
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Speaker 3: restrictions and important safety information. And you know, I love
Speaker 3: both of Bennernaugle's books. The first one's almost impossible to
Speaker 3: find now, you know. I got a copy many years
Speaker 3: ago and always try to find a second one. But
Speaker 3: it's tricky because when they do pop up, they go
Speaker 3: for so much money. But his second book, The Discovery
Speaker 3: of the Sasquatch, is probably my personal favorite book ever
Speaker 3: written on the subject.
Speaker 2: It's almost like a survey of the philosophy of science itself.
Speaker 3: In a lot of ways, it's very conceptual, very philosophical,
Speaker 3: but he does present a lot of factual information to
Speaker 3: be derived from reports and from the physical evidence, and
Speaker 3: so it's sort of the blending of both of those
Speaker 3: sort of worlds of the hard evidence, let's say, combined
Speaker 3: with the anecdotal evidence and ey witness testimony, but various
Speaker 3: philosophies of science. And he makes just such a great
Speaker 3: case about how could these things be real and yet unrecognized?
Speaker 3: And I think that book's an incredible contribution. I wish
Speaker 3: they would put it in a kindle format so more
Speaker 3: people could access it. Leela Hodgschik's Ford is an excellent
Speaker 3: essay too. I mean that Ford alone is awesome, you know.
Speaker 3: I wish that would get digitized and put on the
Speaker 3: internet as a standalone document for people to read. But
Speaker 3: his first book's amazing too, which is The Sasquatch North
Speaker 3: America's Grade eight. But it's very, very difficult to find,
Speaker 3: but readers could get the Discovery of the Sasquatch from
Speaker 3: Amazon still, but hopefully they'll put those in digital format.
Speaker 3: The problem with a lot of the Sasquatch ClassX. Now,
Speaker 3: those two Bender Nooggles books were published through a company
Speaker 3: called Beachcomber, so I don't know what their process is.
Speaker 2: Like, I think that was the Bendernaggles thing. I think
Speaker 2: they kind of self published it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I said him and his wife.
Speaker 3: Because Hancock House, what they've done for most of their
Speaker 3: titles is to scan and upload the books as PDF images.
Speaker 3: So usually if you're in an ebook format, it's a
Speaker 3: text file so you can search within it, which is amazing,
Speaker 3: or you can highlight notes and export those or just
Speaker 3: go to your highlighted sections. But literally, if you get
Speaker 3: Apes among Us or Krantz's book on Kindle or ebook format,
Speaker 3: there are image files of the pages, so they're very
Speaker 3: you can't highlight notes, you can't they're not searchable, which
Speaker 3: is a little frustrating because that's part of the benefit
Speaker 3: of reading the e book versions. So maybe they'll do
Speaker 3: something about that at some point in the future. But
Speaker 3: I would definitely if I had to pick one for
Speaker 3: me that was a personal favorite, it would without it
Speaker 3: out be the just Iver read the Sasquatch.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, if we're talking about Bender Nogul and Krantz,
Speaker 2: we have to talk about Meldrum's book.
Speaker 4: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Meldrum's book is just fantastic. It's the number one
Speaker 2: book I recommend to people. I mean, I'm clearly a
Speaker 2: Krantz site, you know, like if you're if you're I
Speaker 2: always I think I might may have said this before,
Speaker 2: but if you're looking at the four horsemen, I think
Speaker 2: most people kind of fall in line behind one of them.
Speaker 2: And I definitely find fall in line behind Krantz, and
Speaker 2: Meldrum is the next in line in that same line.
Speaker 3: Indeed, I'm a Greenian.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: In fact, the second edition, the second edition of Krantz's
Speaker 2: book acknowledges doctor Beldrium because in the first edition, Jeff
Speaker 2: wasn't on the scene yet. He wrote that in probably
Speaker 2: ninety one or ninety two. I think he published in
Speaker 2: ninety one or ninety two, so he's writing it in
Speaker 2: the late eighties, early nineties, and the second edition he
Speaker 2: there's a little addendum there and he mentions Jeff is
Speaker 2: on the scene now and a trained an antimist looking
Speaker 2: at these things, and he acknowledges that doctor Meldrum's recognition
Speaker 2: of the mid tarsal break. And of course, if you
Speaker 2: he read Krantz's book. If you go back and read
Speaker 2: those early chapters on footprints in Krantz's book, he does
Speaker 2: acknowledge it as well, but he doesn't come to the
Speaker 2: name of it. He doesn't do the mid tarsl joints,
Speaker 2: he doesn't talk about pressure ridges and all that stuff.
Speaker 2: He does talk about. I think the words are something like, Again,
Speaker 2: I don't have the book in front of me, but
Speaker 2: the word is something like considerable flexibility in the mid
Speaker 2: part of the foot I believe is what he said,
Speaker 2: something to that effect. So he does recognize it, and
Speaker 2: he does give Krantz gave himself on a little pat
Speaker 2: on his back in that little chapter where he talks
Speaker 2: about chef in his work. But yeah, Meldrum's book built
Speaker 2: upon what Krantz had done and expanded upon it. And
Speaker 2: for what it's worth, rumor is Jeff's writing another book
Speaker 2: that will be released around the same time as Doug
Speaker 2: Hizek's Legend meets Science documentary happened. Yeah, well, if it's
Speaker 2: out there, good. I mean, I knew it was happening,
Speaker 2: but I didn't know if it was officially mentioned or
Speaker 2: not yet. Yes, yeah, so I'm looking on that looking
Speaker 2: forward to that, because doctor Meldrim will certainly build upon
Speaker 2: his own work, because his book is I mean, it's
Speaker 2: not dated to the point of being useless, but it
Speaker 2: was a published in two thousand and six or two
Speaker 2: thousand and eight.
Speaker 4: Six.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's you know, it's twenty twenty three right now.
Speaker 2: That's kind of a long time ago, and so much
Speaker 2: has happened, and there have been so many advances in
Speaker 2: science and various disciplines that come to bear on this topic.
Speaker 2: So I'm very much looking forward to doctor Meldrim's next book.
Speaker 3: Yeah, those would be my five required reading to me.
Speaker 3: If you read these five books, you would have a
Speaker 3: very thorough education. The ones we talked about Sanderson Green's Apes,
Speaker 3: among us, Krantz, Meldrim and Bitner novels, Discovery of the Sasquatch.
Speaker 3: And then there's other books I love, you know, those
Speaker 3: sort of narrative journeys that aren't necessarily a deep dive
Speaker 3: into the subject, but are sort of again, sort of
Speaker 3: following a narrator who's seeing the subject in a broad
Speaker 3: view through their own particular lens. We already talked about.
Speaker 3: I absolutely loved John Zada's book In the Valleys, of
Speaker 3: the Noble Beyond. And I know we all loved Robert
Speaker 3: Piles where Bigfoot Walks. That's another great one in that category.
Speaker 2: Did you see the movie?
Speaker 3: I still haven't watched the movie because we did that
Speaker 3: interview with him and hearing about you know, he wasn't lamenting,
Speaker 3: but hearing the differences between the way he was represented
Speaker 3: in the film and the way they toured with the
Speaker 3: time timeline of his life sort of turned me off
Speaker 3: a little bit.
Speaker 4: Dude, he ruined Bob Pile in that movie. He'd been
Speaker 4: able to look the biggest kop.
Speaker 3: See, that's what I'm worried. Didn't make him look like
Speaker 3: a like totally inapt in the outdoor.
Speaker 4: Yeah, total, totally totally clueless. It's just a door.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and Bob is anything but man, he did
Speaker 2: that solo trip across Skippard Pinshow you don't do a
Speaker 2: solo trip if you're some loser in the woods.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So listeners, if you haven't listened to the Bob
Speaker 3: Pile episode that we did around the time. We also
Speaker 3: did an interview with the director of that film. But
Speaker 3: you know, I do enjoy those books too, because they're
Speaker 3: just very well written so it's not necessarily going to
Speaker 3: give you an education on the Sasquatch, but they're very
Speaker 3: enjoyable reads, especially John's Ages book. Like, I just really
Speaker 3: thought that was a beautiful book, you.
Speaker 2: Know, I think a valuable mention. I don't think it's
Speaker 2: one of in my top five or anything, but definite
Speaker 2: worthy of mention, especially for people our age, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, but was my age. And of course you
Speaker 2: two met, you're a little younger than us, but still
Speaker 2: legend of Boggie Creek has affected all of us in
Speaker 2: various ways, right, I mean, that was some of my
Speaker 2: earliest memories of the bigfoot thing, and it's been just
Speaker 2: a profound effect upon my life in so many ways,
Speaker 2: to the point where when I met Keith Crabtree, the
Speaker 2: guy in the suit, like like like I teared up,
Speaker 2: like I was so moved by meeting the dude in
Speaker 2: the suit.
Speaker 4: You know, for that got thrown through the door.
Speaker 2: We oh yeah, that guy. I also teered up. Then
Speaker 2: I got his autograph, like I got both all these
Speaker 2: they're up in the museum. They mean so much to me.
Speaker 2: So Lyle Blackburn's Abista Bogie Creek has to be.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, that's a great one.
Speaker 2: It's because it resonated so strongly with my youth, you know,
Speaker 2: in this that sort of way.
Speaker 4: And you know, a little book I love is The Yaoi.
Speaker 3: That is one of my favorite mystery eight books of
Speaker 3: all time, the two thousand and six Yawoi. I'm still
Speaker 3: reading the Yaoi File.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: It is just sort of a not to denigrate it,
Speaker 3: but it is just a compendium of reports, whereas the
Speaker 3: original book that they wrote, The Yaoi in two thousand
Speaker 3: and six. It's just that is absolutely one of my
Speaker 3: favorite books on the subject of mystery as historically speaking.
Speaker 3: One of the most amazing collections of information that I've
Speaker 3: seen that suffers from and I don't know if this
Speaker 3: person listens, but if you listen, I'm sorry, but suffers
Speaker 3: from I think one of the worst titles was there
Speaker 3: was a book that was released a few years ago
Speaker 3: called Far Out Shaggy Funky Monsters.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that guy Daniel Green, Green, Yeah yeah,
Speaker 2: Daniel Green.
Speaker 3: There you go, man. There's so much incredible information and
Speaker 3: it's a compendium of personal correspondence, is print media, article happenings, newsletters, bulletins,
Speaker 3: all just a tremendous amount of information from the end
Speaker 3: of nineteen sixty nine until the very beginning of nineteen eighty,
Speaker 3: so it really covers the nineteen seventies, and so the
Speaker 3: title is sort of a nod to terminology of pop
Speaker 3: culture in the seventies. But I think a lot of
Speaker 3: people have missed that book because the title is so goofy.
Speaker 3: Sorry Daniel if you're listening.
Speaker 2: Because no great book. Great book.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I learned so many things that I wasn't previously
Speaker 3: aware of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because the seventies, the sixties and seventies are like
Speaker 2: kind of the heyday of the Bigfoot thing, when it
Speaker 2: first became public knowledge that these things may be out there.
Speaker 2: It's when, certainly when I was growing up throughout the
Speaker 2: nineteen seventies, I saw the various schlockumentaries and loved them all.
Speaker 2: And that book encapsulates the feel, which is what I
Speaker 2: think he was trying to do with the title. Of course,
Speaker 2: you know, but to see the primary sources in a
Speaker 2: way of the newspaper articles reporting the things that we
Speaker 2: would later read about another book. I think that is
Speaker 2: a really, really great book and certainly one that I
Speaker 2: love thumbing through. It's not a cover to cover short
Speaker 2: of book. It's one that you just pick up and like, oh,
Speaker 2: I remember that. That was cool.
Speaker 3: And there's a lot of great regional books too. I mean,
Speaker 3: I have to mention my dear friend Mike May's book
Speaker 3: Valley of the Apes, which is about the nawac's work
Speaker 3: in Area X. It's a great book. I loved reading that.
Speaker 3: You know, I know a lot of those people and
Speaker 3: I've been there many times, but Mike put it into
Speaker 3: a great narrative. And I also really love I know
Speaker 3: you do too, Raincoast Sasquatch. That's a great book.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one of the better ones. I think it
Speaker 2: really opened my eyes to the ability of these things
Speaker 2: to swim. For example, that's why I first heard of
Speaker 2: Reeker reports of these things swimming. I think there's been
Speaker 2: a few things here and there. Of course, you know,
Speaker 2: even the Bossburg creature went in and out of Lake Roosevelt,
Speaker 2: which is of course the Columbia River, but this just
Speaker 2: dammed up at that point.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I love that. That book is one of my
Speaker 4: that's top ten for me to.
Speaker 2: You know, a book that I read that I just
Speaker 2: love and I do go back to occasionally because if
Speaker 2: we're talking about the history of the subject and whatnot,
Speaker 2: you know, the whole bigfoot thing. Yeah, of course, sasquatching.
Speaker 2: That term was coined in the nineteen twenties, and Bigfoot
Speaker 2: kind of came on the scene in nineteen fifty eight
Speaker 2: and stuff. But before that, the world was in this
Speaker 2: like this, this tizzy about the ambomitable snowman, the yetti
Speaker 2: in general. So when I when I plowed through Tom
Speaker 2: Slick in The Search for the YETI by Lauren Coleman,
Speaker 2: good book. Yeah, great book. I think it has some
Speaker 2: of the best YETI written YETI knowledge in written anywhere
Speaker 2: anywhere on that particular part, because Lauren is a fantastic
Speaker 2: what was the word I'm looking for, not just author,
Speaker 2: but like his his his perspective of history is fantastic,
Speaker 2: and the fact that he was actually doing stuff back
Speaker 2: in that time too. He was a young man. I
Speaker 2: think at that point he's been looking at this thing
Speaker 2: for seventy years. I think he told me, and there's
Speaker 2: nobody like that in available nowadays.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So Tom Slick on The Search for the Yeti is
Speaker 2: a fantastic book because it's it's part biography of Tom
Speaker 2: Slick and then part informational about the investigations into the
Speaker 2: Yetti at that time, which dovetailed into the sasquatch thing
Speaker 2: that we're all enjoying today.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I read that book probably three times. I thought
Speaker 4: it was great and you don't link to that though.
Speaker 4: It's a good one, except for the endings of bum
Speaker 4: out is a was it Heinrich Messner.
Speaker 3: The Reinhold Messner Rhinhold.
Speaker 4: Messner, Yes, Yetti book, And he kind of caught so
Speaker 4: much crap. I mean, it's a great book, and then
Speaker 4: he tries to write it off at the end as
Speaker 4: a whistling, upright running bear that he saw, Like, so
Speaker 4: he quit catching crap from all the people about saying
Speaker 4: he saw YETI.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a super big disappointment because at the
Speaker 2: beginning he was saying, oh, yeah, I was upright. He
Speaker 2: was describing or YETI or a sasquatch. He was describing
Speaker 2: something that could not possibly be a bear in anyway,
Speaker 2: and at the end he goes, yeah, it was a bear.
Speaker 2: So so what are you a bad observer?
Speaker 4: Is that?
Speaker 2: It like you're just shooting yourself in the foot by
Speaker 2: saying it's like I wrote all this stuff earlier and
Speaker 2: I'm either an incompetent observer or a coward for changing
Speaker 2: my mind at the end. Very very disappointing to me,
Speaker 2: very disappointing. He's going, oh, Cliff just called that guy
Speaker 2: a coward.
Speaker 4: I did, I did, I said all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 4: But I was like, yeah, I was so bung like,
Speaker 4: I was a hero. And then all of a sudden,
Speaker 4: I was like, dude, you're being a b och like
Speaker 4: just because you can't stand up by like he saw it.
Speaker 4: He saw it and stick to your guns. But it
Speaker 4: was still a great book because he's such a badass,
Speaker 4: he's been so through that area. Just his his writing
Speaker 4: about that area was was, you know, pretty pretty compelling.
Speaker 4: It was. It was a good photo to make you
Speaker 4: really want to go there and check it out myself.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 2: Will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was going to see if you guys had
Speaker 3: favorite books that were not about the Sasquatch but directly
Speaker 3: related to it, you know, the analogous Hmmm.
Speaker 4: I don't read much nonfiction, I mean fiction. I don't
Speaker 4: read much fiction.
Speaker 3: No, no, these are not fictional, I mean they're just
Speaker 3: they're about other animals like I would recommend all our
Speaker 3: listeners read David Peterson's Ghost Grizzlies about the potential survival
Speaker 3: of grizzlies in the South San Juans of southern Colorado.
Speaker 3: Any of the Jim Corbett books, especially Man Eaters of Command,
Speaker 3: some of the most riveting nature writing. David Kwalman's Monster
Speaker 3: of God is a fantastic book about belief systems associated
Speaker 3: with certain animals. You know, I referenced some of that
Speaker 3: stuff in my book. And then there's a great writer
Speaker 3: named sim Montgomery who wrote an awesome book called Spell
Speaker 3: of the Tiger. She wrote a book called The Search
Speaker 3: for the Golden Moonbear, which has this sort of like
Speaker 3: cryptozoological angle. I guess because it's the search for this
Speaker 3: as yet sort of undiscovered species of bear, or I
Speaker 3: guess at the time it was somewhat undiscovered or thought
Speaker 3: to have been lost, maybe like a Lazarus species. I
Speaker 3: don't know a lot about it yet, but I'm about
Speaker 3: to dive into it. But the Spell of the Tiger
Speaker 3: was amazing. She went to the Sundarbans, which is like
Speaker 3: the tiger death capital of Asia. There's more people eaten
Speaker 3: thereby tigers than anywhere else, and so her writing is fantastic.
Speaker 3: So I'm looking forward to digging into that. But I
Speaker 3: just think there's so many consistencies between a lot of
Speaker 3: these studies and lessons to be learned about how people
Speaker 3: find these other sort of hidden animals are very rare
Speaker 3: animals that are just directly applicable, and it's great fun
Speaker 3: to read those things.
Speaker 2: I don't have any books like that that have really
Speaker 2: grabbed me or I can think of off the top
Speaker 2: of my head, but what did come to mind are
Speaker 2: a couple of books by Ian Tattersall. Ian Tattersall, I
Speaker 2: think he's head of the Human Origins department at the
Speaker 2: Museum in New York, the Natural History Museum in New York,
Speaker 2: or maybe it's American Natural History Museum in New York.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure what the title I forget is, but
Speaker 2: he wrote a book, the first one I read of
Speaker 2: him is called Masters of the Planet, and basically his
Speaker 2: premise there is that humans are special, not because of
Speaker 2: our tool use or fire or anything like that. It's
Speaker 2: mostly for symbolic thought, being able to put larger ideas
Speaker 2: into symbols, whether those symbols are visual like photographs or
Speaker 2: pictures or hand signals, or if they're auditory, which comes
Speaker 2: down the language, because if I say, if I say
Speaker 2: the word I don't know tree, those sounds I just
Speaker 2: made to e like that's not a tree, but the
Speaker 2: idea that that those sounds symbolize are translated into our
Speaker 2: brain as a tree, and he was arguing that that
Speaker 2: perhaps is the origin of our humanity. I guess, in
Speaker 2: some sort of way, maybe the kernel of our humanity
Speaker 2: for lack of a better term. So I really enjoyed
Speaker 2: that book because it as well as my other favorite
Speaker 2: book by him, which is called The Case of the
Speaker 2: Rickety Cossack. What both of these books kind of eventually
Speaker 2: fall into the Case of the Rickety Cossack is also
Speaker 2: in a book by Ian Tattersall. What both of these
Speaker 2: books eventually fall into is almost like a brief history
Speaker 2: of paleoanthropology, which I think is a fantastic topic and
Speaker 2: one that most bigfooters, if not all bigfooters, should probably
Speaker 2: dip their toes into a little bit, because not only
Speaker 2: does a shed light upon ourselves as Homo sapiens, but
Speaker 2: also sasquatches for whatever they are. But finding out the
Speaker 2: history of paleoanthropology through these books, and what we think
Speaker 2: we may have learned about our ancestors and near relatives
Speaker 2: directly relates to sasquatches in many many ways. It was
Speaker 2: I think it was Masters of the Planet, if I
Speaker 2: remember correctly, that book is what kind of sheds some
Speaker 2: light on this idea of mind that the sasquatches are
Speaker 2: probably power scavenging on coyote, you know, prey essentially power scavenging.
Speaker 2: I've mentioned before, is this strategy of animals and hyenas
Speaker 2: do it for humans?
Speaker 4: Did it?
Speaker 2: We still probably do in some places in the world.
Speaker 2: Alstralla pithesenes did it where they basically let some other
Speaker 2: animal kill kill the prey, and then we'd move in
Speaker 2: and throw box and sticks and try to make off
Speaker 2: with the biggest part we can and then let the
Speaker 2: predator have the rest of the kill. And I think
Speaker 2: sasquatches are doing that. I think that is the connection
Speaker 2: between coyotes and bigfoots for the most part. And it
Speaker 2: was this book Mashes of the Planet where I picked
Speaker 2: up on that idea and started developing it and reformulating
Speaker 2: it for as a sasquatch, molding it into what might
Speaker 2: be applicable to our big friends in the woods here.
Speaker 2: And of course the Case of the Rickety Cossack. That
Speaker 2: is definitely a kind of a history of paleo anthropology
Speaker 2: written in a narrative sort of way, which is really neat.
Speaker 2: It's a really great book, and it shows you not
Speaker 2: only how much we've learned, but also how little we
Speaker 2: have to learn from. I hear people say, oh, evolution,
Speaker 2: it's just a theory. Well that's because we're missing so
Speaker 2: many pieces of it. I mean, evolution is a fact period,
Speaker 2: it's just like the details that we're still shaping. There's
Speaker 2: really no denying it if you went face with the
Speaker 2: evidence like that, and I open on that step in
Speaker 2: anybody's toes, but sorry, it's true. And the Case of
Speaker 2: the Rickney Cossacks shows you the development of our ideas
Speaker 2: about ourselves and our origins over time, and also some
Speaker 2: of the relatives that we have in common, and all
Speaker 2: that stuff is just so fascinating to me. And the
Speaker 2: way he packaged it and presents it is very palatable.
Speaker 2: It's just it's not exactly it is an easy read.
Speaker 2: It's certainly not a difficult read. It's nothing that you
Speaker 2: know it's not an archaic language, and it's not like
Speaker 2: his sentence structure is weird and you have to get
Speaker 2: in your head. It's a great reading. Both of these
Speaker 2: are fantastic books.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Have you read David Begans The Real Planet of
Speaker 3: the Apes?
Speaker 2: Oh? I have actually, Yeah, I actually have read that
Speaker 2: is my library at home.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's one of my favorite books about ape evolution.
Speaker 3: He makes a really strong argument for the evolution of
Speaker 3: apes predominantly occurring in Eurasia. But it's a fantastic book
Speaker 3: about the Asian apes and the Eurasian apes, apes that
Speaker 3: evolved in parts of Europe as well. But that's one
Speaker 3: of my favorite paleoanthropological books for sure.
Speaker 2: There is another book I read and I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2: I think some of his theses that might not bear out,
Speaker 2: but the information I picked up from was really nice.
Speaker 2: And I forget who wrote it. I can look it
Speaker 2: up real fast. But it's called The Red Ape. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I forget. It's basically about orangutans. And this is when
Speaker 2: I was I wanted to find out more stuff about
Speaker 2: gigantipithes scenes and I knew that they were closely related
Speaker 2: to a rangatans so I wanted to read about those
Speaker 2: and see what was up with that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: The Red Ape. Jeffrey Schwartz is the author of that one,
Speaker 2: and after reading that book, I was just enamored by
Speaker 2: orangutans and I could see that, you know, okay, maybe
Speaker 2: they are somehow related to the Sasquatches in some sort
Speaker 2: of way. Maybe you know, the Sasquatch Giganto connection is
Speaker 2: of the real deal because of the behaviors and the
Speaker 2: intelligence level and whatnot of orangutans, because they seem to be,
Speaker 2: depending on how one measures it, the smartest of the apes,
Speaker 2: and just so fascinating in so many ways, and the
Speaker 2: small details of their anatomy that they go into. It's
Speaker 2: a really great read. Now, I happen to mention that
Speaker 2: one time the doctor Meldrum because we've been camping together
Speaker 2: a few times, and around the campfire we start this
Speaker 2: is the direction of conversation very often human evolution and
Speaker 2: apes and all that sort of stuff, because I've got
Speaker 2: so many questions and he loves to talk about it,
Speaker 2: and you know, it's a rousing campfire discussion and he
Speaker 2: goes Oh. I wrote a review of that one time,
Speaker 2: an unfavorable review, and I said, oh my god. So
Speaker 2: but nonetheless, and again I think it was probably because
Speaker 2: there was some argument or least suggestion in the book
Speaker 2: that perhaps humans are more closely related to orangutans than
Speaker 2: we might suspect, or then the current evidence points to
Speaker 2: because of some sort of anatomical detail in the cranium
Speaker 2: or the skull or actually the roof of the mouth somehow,
Speaker 2: where the sinuses going at this particular place, and no
Speaker 2: other ape species but humans and orangutans have this. I
Speaker 2: don't know. The anatomy of it was a little bit
Speaker 2: above my head. And I'm pretty sure that's probably what
Speaker 2: you've had some disagreement with.
Speaker 3: So I need to read that book. I have not
Speaker 3: read that one. It sounds like a very interesting book,
Speaker 3: for sure.
Speaker 4: Yeah it is.
Speaker 2: Well, I've got a copy of it. You know, if
Speaker 2: you when you're out for squatch Fest, I can lend
Speaker 2: your mind if you want.
Speaker 3: Well, if it's on Kindle, I'll But I really love
Speaker 3: reading on Kindle because I can read anytime anywhere, Like
Speaker 3: I've probably got two hundred and fifty books on my
Speaker 3: Kindle app And the other thing is I do a
Speaker 3: lot of reading at night because like when we go
Speaker 3: to bed, I'm usually not very sleepy, so I'll get
Speaker 3: like an hour hour and a half of reading in
Speaker 3: before I actually fall asleep. And I don't need a
Speaker 3: light because it's on the phone, you know. So that's
Speaker 3: kind of nice.
Speaker 2: But I don't like reading on my phone or my tablet.
Speaker 2: I'd like to have something in my hands.
Speaker 3: I love the Kindle, like I said, because you can
Speaker 3: highlight portions you know that you find particularly useful or meaningful,
Speaker 3: and then it saves all your highlights, and then when
Speaker 3: you're done with the book, you can export it.
Speaker 4: Oh I didn't know that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you can just email it to yourself and like, oh,
Speaker 3: here's all the highlights with references, so I can go, oh,
Speaker 3: here's all the portions of that book I found particularly meaningful.
Speaker 3: And then if I ever opened up the book again,
Speaker 3: I can just go straight to my highlights and go
Speaker 3: back to those portions of the book when I reread
Speaker 3: it or something like that. But it's just super convenient
Speaker 3: that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can see the convenient part of it. But
Speaker 2: there's something about the smell of a book I can't get.
Speaker 2: I can't let losive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if something comes out new, I'll buy it on
Speaker 3: Kendles so I can have it like the second it
Speaker 3: comes out. But physical books, I love used bookstores because
Speaker 3: you know, like if I'm on Amazon, it's because I'm
Speaker 3: looking for something specific, like oh I heard so and
Speaker 3: so just release such and such today, I'll go buy
Speaker 3: it at the bookstore. I'm like, I'm going to look
Speaker 3: at every title in you know, the natural Sciences, and
Speaker 3: if something jumps out at me that I've never seen
Speaker 3: or never heard of or that sounds relevant, That's how
Speaker 3: I discover things is through the used bookstore. So most
Speaker 3: of the stuff, like I'll order new books if it's
Speaker 3: not available in kindel format, but like I've got tons
Speaker 3: of books, but most of them I get it used bookstore.
Speaker 3: It drives my wife crazy because I have to go
Speaker 3: into every use bookstore that we encounter on the road
Speaker 3: because I'm like, you never know what you're going to find.
Speaker 3: And you know, I found assigned Krantz book in Juno, Alaska. Oh,
Speaker 3: I found as signed first edition of Jane Goodall's in
Speaker 3: the Shadow of Man for a dollar. I guess they
Speaker 3: didn't they didn't know it was And so I went
Speaker 3: to my favorite bookstore in Nashville the other day and
Speaker 3: I found a signed copy of Ghost Grizzlies, which already had,
Speaker 3: but it was only three bucks, and I was like,
Speaker 3: I'll get a second copy of Ghost Grizzlies because it's
Speaker 3: signed to like Bob and Irma, whoever they are. Yeah,
Speaker 3: if you ever at a bookstore used bookstore and you
Speaker 3: see a book, you already have check the inside cover
Speaker 3: before you go, oh, I don't need that. I already
Speaker 3: have a copy because it's happened to me multiple times now, So.
Speaker 4: You don't find those old big Foot books like that anymore.
Speaker 4: Everyone goes on eBay and looks at the price. Now
Speaker 4: they go, oh, I can check up the price of this.
Speaker 3: Yeah. All the cool used big Foot books I got
Speaker 3: were in weird places. I mean I found Dehindon's book
Speaker 3: in North Georgia, which I thought was kind of an
Speaker 3: odd place. I found several cool green John Green books
Speaker 3: in Montana and Wyoming. And then when I moved to Washington,
Speaker 3: I worked next door to a used bookstore and I
Speaker 3: introduced myself to the guy and I was like, oh, hey,
Speaker 3: you know, here's what I do. And he's like, oh,
Speaker 3: if we get these in all the time. If anything
Speaker 3: comes in, I will just put it aside, because I said, look,
Speaker 3: if I don't have it, I'll buy it. And he
Speaker 3: never got one in in the three years that I
Speaker 3: lived there. I used to go to Pike's Place. You know,
Speaker 3: there's a cool used book store there. Never saw Bigfoot books,
Speaker 3: So people don't let those things go very easily.
Speaker 2: Minty Scott Minton a good friend of mine. He's the
Speaker 2: guy with the record store in Sandy And actually he
Speaker 2: got customers from her podcast. Somebody came in and came
Speaker 2: to the museum and they were going to go to
Speaker 2: the Scott's record store next because they heard us talking
Speaker 2: about on the podcast. How cool is that?
Speaker 4: That's cool?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mean, he goes to the Sandy Library because we
Speaker 2: live in Sandy's and so does he. He goes to
Speaker 2: the Sandy Library all the time because they often sell
Speaker 2: use books. And he found an old copy of a
Speaker 2: Bonnable Snowman legend Comes to Life back there with a
Speaker 2: new cover on it by lovingly put on by the
Speaker 2: librarian there, and with a laminated cover and all this
Speaker 2: sort of stuff, and got it for like a dollar
Speaker 2: or something like that, and he was he picked it
Speaker 2: and he goes, oh my gosh, what is this, and
Speaker 2: the library says, I knew somebody would love that one. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I picked up Weevlman's I think was Weevelman's That that
Speaker 2: his book on sea serpents. I got one of those
Speaker 2: out of the library sale one time too. Another fantastic
Speaker 2: resource for use books. Yeah, stay tuned for more Bigfoot
Speaker 2: and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. Will be right back
Speaker 2: after these messages, you know, you.
Speaker 4: Know we're we're forgetting. Is I still love the Locals
Speaker 4: by Tom Powell? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Tom, Tom, yeahs as paranormal as Tom has eventually
Speaker 2: ended up, that book was was groundbreaking in its time.
Speaker 2: I think it may have been the first book to
Speaker 2: mention this idea of habituation.
Speaker 4: I think so.
Speaker 2: I think it was the first that wasn't really out
Speaker 2: there until Tom started writing about the Jay Hales project,
Speaker 2: which was a BFRO project back in around two thousand,
Speaker 2: a very successful project that frankly did get the its
Speaker 2: credit because Tom, through the benefactor Richard Richard Hucklebridge, who's
Speaker 2: still out there kicking somewhere southern California somewhere, they bought
Speaker 2: all this fancy ir night vision camera stuff that is
Speaker 2: our chick by today's standards. They set that stuff up
Speaker 2: and lo and behold, they actually got really really poor
Speaker 2: quality photographs of a Sasquatch. I think it's the first
Speaker 2: time that has ever happened with night vision and stuff.
Speaker 2: And we have a whole display devoted to that those photographs.
Speaker 2: There's two photographs that they got. We have a whole
Speaker 2: display in the NABC devoted to that, including the original
Speaker 2: equipment they used to get it.
Speaker 3: Oh, another book, I have to mention, I can't believe
Speaker 3: I've forgot it. That's just my other favorite mystery a
Speaker 3: worldwide book is Gregory Forth's Images of the Wild Man
Speaker 3: in Southeast.
Speaker 4: So that's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 3: That book is so and it's unfortunate that that was
Speaker 3: published through the University Press because you know, he's got
Speaker 3: his new sort of popular nonfiction book between ap and
Speaker 3: he Human, But his prior book in two thousand and nine,
Speaker 3: Images of the Wild Man in Southeast Asia is amazing.
Speaker 3: But even brand new, it's at University Press prices, so
Speaker 3: it's like sixty dollars and even the kindle version is
Speaker 3: around the same price, which is fairly ridiculous. But that's
Speaker 3: what you see all university press books set out. But
Speaker 3: it is absolutely worth reading. It's extremely well written. That's
Speaker 3: one of my favorites.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, it's a great great resources chat, our
Speaker 4: men's historical Bigfoot all the He's got like eighteen hundred
Speaker 4: Newstriper articles pre nineteen seventy I think or something like that.
Speaker 4: And there you don't.
Speaker 3: Talk about it's like, yeah, yeah, that's a great book.
Speaker 4: It's like, was it like twelve hundred pages or something.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's thick.
Speaker 2: It's pretty great. We have we have some displays in
Speaker 2: the museum, but I don't go the like full bor
Speaker 2: on those because well, people have done it better, you know,
Speaker 2: Like why would I put out like a handful of
Speaker 2: a newspaper articles for people to see when there's entire
Speaker 2: books devote it to that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Did you guys ever read Jean Paul devonats The Asian
Speaker 3: wild Man?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can remember the author's name.
Speaker 2: We have it on we have it on the shelves
Speaker 2: here in the museum.
Speaker 3: Actually, oh, very cool. Yeah, I just have the kindle version.
Speaker 3: I've never found a physical copy, but maybe when I'm
Speaker 3: out there for Squatch Fast, I'll pick up one since
Speaker 3: you have it on the shelf, because I love that book.
Speaker 3: That was a really well written book.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we can spend a lifetime talking about this, but
Speaker 2: you know it is coming to the end of our
Speaker 2: hour here.
Speaker 4: I forget. I'm forgetting. I know, I'm forgetting, like probably
Speaker 4: two books that I really like on spacing.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, maybe that's a good topic for a
Speaker 2: future one. Then it's just what when don't we hop
Speaker 2: on and that we can focus on a couple of
Speaker 2: different books.
Speaker 4: Hit the big ones.
Speaker 2: I think we did. I think we hit most of
Speaker 2: the big ones. I'm sure there's some that we're forgetting,
Speaker 2: you know, Like I like Roger met Patty. I think
Speaker 2: that's a must read for example. Yeah, Ken Gerhardt's book
Speaker 2: on Sasquatch or Bigfoot there is one of the best
Speaker 2: ones written recently. That's a fantastic overview of the subject.
Speaker 2: In general. There's all then, as far as the regional
Speaker 2: stuff goes, the British Columbia stuff that features Bob Timmins
Speaker 2: in the cover that was put together by Chris Murphy,
Speaker 2: or Steinberg's books, there's just so many that we can
Speaker 2: mention and go deeply into.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the doc in West Virginia, Rush Jones, he's like his,
Speaker 4: like I enjoy his.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's just too many books to go into. But
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe a future episode, if our listeners
Speaker 2: would like to hear us go on about this sort
Speaker 2: of stuff, we can go maybe do a deep dive
Speaker 2: into a handful of these you know, that might be
Speaker 2: a lot of fun.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a great first meeting of Clobo's book Club.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wanted to call it Monster Piece Theater, except
Speaker 2: that the Sesame Street already grab that one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we can guess what you guys want to hear.
Speaker 4: You can just let us know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's any thing about being members, you have
Speaker 2: direct access to us. Essentially, you can write on Patreon.
Speaker 2: Matt Prute reads every single thing and he pokes us about.
Speaker 2: It's like, hey, this is an idea, or that this
Speaker 2: person said this. This person said that. We get emails
Speaker 2: that were sent by you guys to the thing. When
Speaker 2: Matt says, oh, the guys would love that he sends
Speaker 2: it to us. We get the information that you give us.
Speaker 2: So I want to encourage all of our members to
Speaker 2: give us more information. This is your podcast, you know,
Speaker 2: we are here specifically for you, and so what can
Speaker 2: we do for you? How can we best serve you?
Speaker 2: We are always looking for ideas because we're four years
Speaker 2: in man, it's hard to scramble for new stuff every
Speaker 2: single week, but we're doing it, and I think we're
Speaker 2: doing it pretty well. But we could always use some help,
Speaker 2: and we might as well get help from the people
Speaker 2: who care about the podcast more than anyone except for
Speaker 2: perhaps us three, and that's you, guys, our members. We
Speaker 2: thank you for everything that they've been doing, and we
Speaker 2: can certainly use a little bit more help. By what's
Speaker 2: your idea? What would you like to have us talk about?
Speaker 2: What topic do you think we should do, what guests
Speaker 2: should we have on? Anything like that. We may not
Speaker 2: do your ideas, but we will listen and consider every
Speaker 2: single one.
Speaker 4: Well, I guess that's it then, I for us this week.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, members, We really do appreciate it.
Speaker 4: Mutuscasses. All right, folks, Well that's another episode of Beyond,
Speaker 4: Bigfoot and Beyond, and so we all until next week.
Speaker 4: Keep it beyond, Squatchy.
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