Speaker 1: Hi, This is Bill McDonald from Las Vegas, Nevada, and
I play at Las Vegas, pyut. This is Golf Smarter
number nine nine seven. Max Homa had this great comedy.
He said, if you don't play this game for a living,
screw the rules. Have fun. This game is impossible. There
was an interesting story right before Live Dustin Johnson for
the year hit one approach shot on a par four
with more than a seven hour. For the year. Tuesday,
I played golf. I hit five approach shots with more
than a seven hour. We're playing a harder game than
the pros play.
Speaker 2: All of us are.
Speaker 1: We're playing golf courses that are not perfect manicured. We
get various lives in the fairway. They really don't. We're
playing greens at mavspike marks or leaves or whatever we
have to deal with, and we don't have their skills.
But we're playing a harder golf course. We're longer golf
course to our drink profile. You know this whole thing
about the rules. My thing is if you're playing in
a competition, yes you have played by the rules. But
if you're playing with your buddies and the only competition
is if somebody makes a burdy, we're all going to
take us. Then why not give yourself a chance to
make birdie's and you hit it nice, arrive in the
fairway and a ball sit in a funky lie because
it's not a tour caliber golf course, then rolling onto
a good lie. For Pete's sake, I'm going to get
Steward buy some golfers for that. But if I'm playing
for fun, why do I want to fight bad lives
when I've hit good drives.
Speaker 2: Amateur golf is a much harder game than with the pros.
Play with Terry the wedge Guy, Kayler. This is Golf Smarter,
sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf minds to
help you lower your score and raise your golf IQ.
Speaker 1: Here's your host, Fred Green.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Golf Smarter Podcast.
Speaker 1: Terry, it's great to be back for it always fun. God,
we've been doing this a long time.
Speaker 3: We really have been doing this a long time. Not
only did we just get you on the show to
talk about your wedge designs and whatnot as the wedge Guy,
but we've had we did Golf Smarter tips together. You
did a year's worth of weekly shows on that in
the was that two thousand and seven, I think it was,
And then we did the Short Game Academy for a
while too, right, which actually it recently on our Friday
episodes Ore Golf Smarter Mulligan episodes, we've been bringing back
old shows and we've been listening to the Short Game
Academy again. So you've been a presence. You've been a
presence here for almost the full twenty years that we've
been doing this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, close to it. It's been great. It's been fun.
We've covered a lot of ground and there's always new things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's you know, I'm coming up to one thousand,
and I'm was like, wow, one thousand, we start all over,
go back to one. Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh.
So how's business man. You've got Edison Wedges and you're
the founder of this company and innovative director, right right,
what's going on those business.
Speaker 1: You know, we continue to push the push the envelope
with Wedge design. We've on the Edison two point zero version.
This is our second full year with it, and you know,
it just following basically what I've been believing in and
extolling the virtues of wedges. For since you've known me
twenty plus years, thirty years, that wedges designed for tour
players are not going to give the recreational golfer, your
rank and file listener, your eighth to twenty and kapper.
They're not going to give that golfer the kind of
performance he or she is getting out of their game
improvement irons and their hybrids and their big drivers and
you know, their their high MOI putters, and you know,
everything in the recreational golfer bag, everything in that bag
is some kind of a game improvement designed to help
them hit better iron shots, make more putts, hit longer drives.
And yet they're ninety eight percent of them are trying
to play the wedges the tour players play, and it's
the most finicky golf club in the bag. And they
wouldn't dream of teeing up, you know, putting his tour
blade irons in the bag, you know, playing a three iron.
You know, they wouldn't dream of that. And yet they're
trying to work with the wedges. And you know, I'm
the lone voice in the wilderness about you are not
good enough to optimize that golf club. Roy McElroy is
and Scotty Scheffler is, but the rest of us are
not even low single digits. We do not have remotely
the kind of skills and touch those guys at. And
so why try to play a golf club that requires
precision impact on every shot because wedges, by nature are
the hardest clubs to hit. We'll come back to that,
but you know, I continue to be the voice in
the wilderness that you know your wedges need to be
different than their wedges, just like your irons and your
hybrids and your driver need to be different. Your shafts
need to be your ball you play. So that's been
my story for thirty years. And because it's right, it's true,
and you're sticking to it. I'm sticking to it because
I know it worked.
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right.
Speaker 3: I would say that of all the clubs, and not
only for myself but the people I play with and
that I watch, that the most difficult club or the
most frustrating, I would say, would probably be starting with
the driver. That's where people are like, oh shoot, I'll
try it again. But the wedges, the short game stuff,
is where you see most frustration and anger. A listener
once told me he was playing with his dad and
when he was a kid, and he got upset and
threw his wedge, and his dad was like, son, you're
not good enough to throw your wedge yet.
Speaker 1: That's a good one. You know. When I grew up
playing golf, and I've been very blast in life. I
turned seventy three last week. And you know I grew
up with when I was five or six years old,
I had a person two wood and a five iron
and a nine iron and a putter. And you know,
through my early twenties and the even into my thirties
playing for some of the drivers, and the driver was the
hardest club to master. And we didn't carry a lot
of sand wedges. Our pitching wedge had fifty two degrees.
As often you pitch the ball with it. Well, it's
reversed now because the big high MOI four hundred and
sixty sec drivers are so forgiving. They're so long, I mean,
and every shot is hit off of a te so
you know, you can hit it all over the face
of the club and get about the same results. So
the driver, in my opinion, have become the easiest club
in the bag to master. The wedges have become the
hardest club in the bag to master because a they
haven't changed in forty years significantly. If you go look
at forty fifty year old wedges and forty fifty year
old drivers and then look at what's in the bag today,
the drivers are radically different wedges or not. But because
the wedge has you know, fifty to fifty five sixty
degrees a loft thread, every shot is a glancing blow.
It's very hard to make consistent contact with a wedge,
whereas a seven iron, you know, twenty nine to thirty
degrees aloft, it's a pretty direct blow. The driver with
ten to twelve degrees is a very direct blow. But
the wedge is a glancing blow and so little variances
and you know, an impact make a lot of difference
on a wedge anyway, and my work has always been
to try to equalize that smash factor up and down
the face that club. We had a lot of wedge
shots high in the face. We had a lot of
wedge shots, a little out on the toe, maybe scoop
the ball a little bit, but more shots are wasted
inside fifty yards of the green than anywhere. And I
would say even more than on the green.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have the joy the beauty of since I
started playing golf in my early forties, and I didn't
start like you start as a kid. So many people
that I come across that when they did start playing
as a kid, they've got hard and fast rules of
how they're supposed to be doing things or what they
like and what they don't like. And as someone who
started later in life, I'm wide open to new ideas
all the time, right, And when I present new ideas
like this to these hard and fast players, they're like, no,
that's not the way we do it. It's like, yeah,
you know, yes it is now it is, and we
ain't going back.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, if you're if you're playing low single
digit golf and you're doing it your way, then your
way is probably right. But if if your way is
still delivering scores in the eighties and nineties, then your
way isn't right. I mean, it'll be open to doing
something different. And you know, I wrote a blog a
while back and I'm I think one of the big
biggest things that drives people to be frustrated and stuck
in the high eighties and nineties is this cons I'm
kind of going off on the tangent here, but you
know I do that. But the idea that we play
heard this show before left handed, and I think the
idea of playing golf right handed or left handed, it
takes people down the wrong path because, in my opinion,
Phil Micholson plays golf right handed, and the rest of
us that you know, Roy McRoy, Tiger Woods on down,
we play golf left handed because we play golf from
the left side of the ball. If you're facing the target,
if you if you're going to play it from the
left side of that ball, then you play left sided.
You don't play handed. You play sided, and don't looking
down from the ball down the fairway. He's standing on
the right side of the ball. He plays right sided.
Because this is a game of back handing the golf ball.
You've got to swing the golf club and not hit
at it with your right hand. And the idea that
you play right handed means I'm going to take the
club in my right hand, I'm try master hand, and
I'm going to take this two inch striking surface. I'm
going to put it behind my head and then in
two tenths of a second I'm going to deliver it
squarely to the back of the golf ball, right in
the center of the face. And I've got the eye
hand coordination do that. You don't. Nobody has that hat
right hand coordination. And if you play with your lead side,
your error, your error factor comes way in. Yeah, we
still hit bad shot, but almost invariably every mid to
high handicapper you can tell they're trying to play the
game right handed and just you'll never groove it, You'll
never get there.
Speaker 2: WHOA, I'm kind of blown away.
Speaker 3: Never had that thought in my head about playing from
sighted versus handed. It really kind of rattles my perspective
on things. Yeah, that's incredible.
Speaker 2: Your blog is The Wedge Guy.
Speaker 1: Yes, I write the blog for golf gob rxs The
Wedge Guy, and then we published that blog on our
own website as well.
Speaker 2: And is that available on substack? Are you doing that
too or are you not?
Speaker 1: That I'm not doing that at all really, just you know,
my publishing arrangement with golfgovir x dot com is I
write for them and they're the exclude a publisher of that.
But you know, but we do we do reproduce those
blog posts on our own website for the Edison followers.
Speaker 3: I'm glad we brought up the your what you're doing
for a golf WRX as far as your blog because
you've written some recently that just intrigued me and I
couldn't wait to talk to you about it. And again,
thank you for being part of this journey to one thousand.
I really appreciate your cooperation all through the years.
Speaker 2: So, like, I want to go.
Speaker 3: On one of the blog posts that I just found
so interesting is something about, you know, we keep a handicap,
which I'm I'm okay with, I get it. I just
don't like the idea that we gamble off of our
potential as opposed to our average score, right, because the
handicap takes eight of your twenty scores and says, this
is what your handicap is because that's your potent and
what you're going to play as opposed to when you're
gambling and you're not looking at your average scorees Like, okay,
I'll go against you on that. That's a whole different topic,
but we can.
Speaker 1: Dive into that because I was having a conversation about
handicap and handling and betting, and we can go into that,
but go on with where you're going now.
Speaker 3: I wanted to talk about what the idea of a
short game handicap is like.
Speaker 2: Keeping track of how you do.
Speaker 3: From one hundred yards and in or one hundred and
twenty five yards and in and where does that fit
in your normal handicap? Are you like, if you're a
twelve or thirteen handicap index, are you a nine on
the short game handicap or you a fifteen?
Speaker 2: Is that what's hurting you and that's what you should
be working on. I want to know where you went
with that.
Speaker 1: Well, and you know that was the point of that
whole thing, you know, with people, And I hear people
all the time and they find him in the golfman
and they go, oh, well, you know, I'm not very
good golfer and I don't play as much as i'd like. Well,
I've never met the guy says I'm really good and
I play too much. I've never met that guy. So,
but yeah, I do have a short game handicap. Is
I know guys at our club that are twelve handicap.
They're not long enough even from the gold tees, so
they're playing a par eighty four golf course, so they're
really about a six because you know, we've got a
par six. We've got probably seven to nine par fives
that they're playing because you know, the game is not
meant to be played where a par four is a
driver a five wood and you still have forty yards
to go. That's not a par four hole. And you know,
gets into the whole topic of playing the right ts.
I've got a good friend I play with a lot,
Larry's eighty one, and I finally got him to go
up the Silver teas and he's having a ball because
he's playing a golf course that he can get the
one par five and who now with a good drive,
he doesn't play any three shot par fours. And you know,
all of a sudden he's shooting seventy seven and seventy nine.
Is because he's playing the right teas, because I mean
he hits it, you know, like the irrigation line has
laid out. But you know, if he's playing back at
the gold tees, he's playing a par eighty four golf course, well, no,
you're not going to shoot your age, you know. And
so you know, but the whole handicap thing, the short
game handicap. You know, by the same token, I've played
guys that hit it a mile, but they're they're fourteens
because inside one hundred yards they have no idea what
to do, you know, And I mean they're hitting wedge
twelve times around shooting eighty four. It's like, how do
you do that? And so you know, And I don't
like using yards as where scoring begins because I mean,
like Larry one point thirty is a seven irons five
iron for him, Well, that's not scoring range. The next
guy's a gap wedge. Well, yeah, you should be scoring
the golf course with a gap wedge in your hand.
So in that in that Short Game Handicap blog, I wrote,
it's when you put a nine iron in your hand,
whether that's your ninety yard club or your one hundred
and sixty yard club. When you put a nine iron
or less in your hand, that's when you have to
take it to the golf course. That's when you get
to go on the offensive. And I used to say
that was a seven iron shot, but nine irons now
have the loft of what seven arms used to have.
So I'll use the nine rons. And what I try
to teach and help our higher handicappers and our ladies
understand is it is not a physical challenge to hit
a thirty yard web shot up in the air with
some spin. Anybody can hit it thirty yards up in
the air with some spin. We've got several greens in
our course that are very small, and if you don't
have that shot, you can't play our golf course, you know,
because that little thirty yard shot is going to go
over the green on you because you don't hit you
don't know how to hit it with enough spin. So
you know, the idea is that if you can make
them all go up in the air with some been,
to stop it within six or eight feet of where
it lands. I know you don't have to learn how
to back it up. But if you can hit it
up in the air, stop it within six to eight
feet of where it lands, then you can play golf
and you can turn that thirty yard shot. Maybe sixty
or seventy yards is as far out as you can
hit that shot. Or but if you can hit really
good shots from seventy yards and d you can play
to your ten, you can play to your four, you
can play to your you know you can. You're going
to lower your your overall handicap. If you look at
how many shots you take that from seventy eighty ninety
yards and end that that. You know, I always said,
when you're hitting your second wedge on the hole, this
is not a good thing. You know, when you pull
a wedge shot, your next shot should be a putt
ninety percent of the time, and it's not going to.
Speaker 2: End hopefully a short butt, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, even if you look at the tour guys
in that short game handicap, I said, half of your
green side saves should get inside ten feet if you're
a medium skilled golfer, and if you're a highly skilled golfer,
that number should go to three fourths of your green side.
Say you're going to cfently have that really tough short
sided shot and you're not going to get it within
ten feet. I don't care if you're not a tour player,
you know, but I think keeping track of your short
game handicap with the little formula that I gave you know,
it's going to help you realize. Wow, if I would
go out and really learn how to hit better pitches
and chips, my my sixteen could become a twelve like that.
You know, my twelve could become a nine. You know,
my my nine could become a six, you know, because
I'm looking how many shots I just threw away with
a wedge or nine iron in my hand.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, it was amazing to me that when I
started really concentrating on my short game, you know, around
the green and inside fifty seventy five hundred yards and
started getting kind of good at it, my index definitely changed.
Speaker 2: There was no question how it dropped.
Speaker 3: But what I also noticed is just because you practice
it and you've got your index down doesn't mean you've
got to stop.
Speaker 2: You can stop practicing you've got it in your bag.
Speaker 3: No, you really have to concentrate and consistently work on
the shortcam when you go to the drawing range. Don't
pull out the driver, hit that two or three times
and then use the rest of the bucket to play
within one hundred yards.
Speaker 1: Well, that and my personal you know, And there's a
difference between your pre round warm up and going out
to practice. There's a difference between them. Oh yeah, but
my pre round warm up typically I'll hit thirty or
forty wedges and then three or four eight rons, three
or four six irons, a couple of fairway woods, and
I'll hit one drive. If it goes good, I'm going
to the tee. If it doesn't good, I'm hit a
second drive. And it goes good, I'm going to the
t Because I mean, and I've been real blessed to
be a really good driver of the ball, which I've
written a blog post about. That's your first scoring club.
Your driver is your first scoring club because nobody scores
the golf course well from all over the lot. Yeah,
the golf course is every golf course out there plays
easier from the fairway, every golf course, every golf course.
Speaker 3: So you said you do that in your warm up.
Do you get up, do you get to practice? Do
you practice?
Speaker 2: And tell me about how you approach that.
Speaker 1: You know I've gone through. I'm historically a ranger at
I mean, if I don't have time to go play
eighteen holes of golfer, nobody wants to play, you know,
I'll go grab a car. I'm very blessed. I live
like three hundred yards down that way to the club,
so I can walk down eighteen fairway and get a cart,
go over to our range. Nice and I love going
out hitting one hundred and fifty two hundred balls, but
I'll hit half of those with wedges and short shots,
just practicing making the ball do different things, you know,
from ten to thirty yards, making the ball do different things,
different flight, because you know, I mean, I'll do this
for a living. I'm always experimenting with different things. Maybe
I saw a tip that somebody had and on hitting
this webshot or that shot or whatever, and you know,
and I'm always messed around, going, hey, I think I
want to change my ball flight from slight fade to
a draw and just see if I like it. So
I'll go work on something like that. It's like going
to the lab for me, you know. And I'll pull
out old stuff too. I'll go find a set of
you know, nineteen seventy five Hogan Blaze and one I
remember when I played those, Wonder what they're like now,
And so, you know, I'll go do things like that.
Speaker 3: And what does it do when you pull something old
out after you've you know, gone through three more iterations
of design that you've done and you pulled out an
old one, It's like, oh, I remember why I like this?
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, And I'm still I'll take my read lock
art for someone driver out and play around with it
every once in a while, just play nine olds and
just to remind myself of how hard driving the ball
used to be.
Speaker 3: One of the blogs that I was interested in, and
this is going to go to a couple of different
topics in our conversation was playing by the rules for
the amateur golfer?
Speaker 2: Do we need to.
Speaker 3: Play the same rules. I mean, I'm a big fan
of bifurcation. I think there should be a set of
rules for the tour and a set of rules for
the ninety nine point five percent of all other golfers
in the world. It's like, why are we playing the
rules of the guys who do this for a living
and that you know that they're doing it ten hours
a day, and then we watch them on TV thinking
we can do that.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, and I think the first rule if
you're you know. I wrote in this blog that that
article that Max Homa had this great comedy. He said,
if you don't play this game for a living, screw
the rules. Have fun. This game is impossible. That was
that was as quote. Within a couple of weeks words
of that awesome I mean, golf is a very hard game.
And I'm and I've written about this before too, like
I played, I kind of go back for it being
seventy three. If I'm the only guy in our group
that I'll play the men's regular teas most of the time,
but I'll go up and play the gold ties with
the guys every once in a while. And when I
do it, to me is like now I'm playing PGA
Tour golf because I'm hitting twelve wedge approaches. I got
two par fives I can hit with a middle iron,
and you know, and I never I never have pull up,
you know, other than those par fives, I don't hit
any approach shot with over a seven iron. And I
played last the other day, I played I've had a
golf writer in now, so we played the White T's
And you know my golf course from the White T's,
I'm it's a it's a five seven eight iron golf course. Well,
tour players don't play five seven eight iron approaches. They
play wedge with my approaches all the way around. There
was an interesting story right before Live Dustin Johnson for
the for the year hitt approach shot on a par
four with more than a seven hour for the year. Okay, Tuesday,
I played golf. I hit five approach shots with more
than a seven, hon so, and he did it in
an year. So we're playing a harder game than the
pros play. All of us are. We're playing golf courses
that are not perfect manicured. You know, we get various
lives in the fairway. They really don't. You know, We're
playing greens that you know, may have spike marks or
leaves or whatever we are to deal with, and we
don't have their skills. But we're playing a harder golf course.
We're longer golf course to our drink profile. So you
know this whole thing about the rules. My thing is,
if you're playing in a competition, yes you have played
by the rules, but you know the rules are designed
to level the competition. If you're playing with your buddies
and the only competition is if somebody makes a murdy,
we're all going to take a shot, then why not
give yourself a chance to make birdies and you hit
it nice, arrive in the fairway, and the ball sitting
in a funky lot because it's not a tour caliber
golf course, then roll it onto a good lie for
Pete's sake. I'm going to get skewered by some golfers
for that. But if I'm playing for fun, why do
I want to fight bad lives when I've hit good drives?
Why do I want to do that? You know, I'm
playing for fun out here today. And I mean, I
know there are groups out there that you know, but
I've played golf courses and I played the ball down
all the time. Our golf course. We have seven different
kinds of turf grass out here. We've got challenging water
and soil conditions, and we have areas in the middle
of fairways that are just bare well, roll it over
to a decent line. Hit yourself a nine n or
seven ron, whatever you have. You know, I'm not going
to put a t in the ground in the fairway
or anything. But you know, I mean, you can carry
some things that go too far. You can carry this
rule thing too far. I mean, and hey, the rules
of golf say you hold out every put How many
people really do that? So my content is very few
people really play by the rules. When you hit a
putt up and it finishes four inches from the hold
of your buddy's hit it back because that's the violation
of the rules of golf, you know, and you know,
and so I think it's a matter of you know,
play golf for fun, play golf for enjoyment, play golf
for the challenge. If you're playing golf at a high
competitive level, and yeah, you need to play by the
rules has written because you're matching yourself to other people
in a competitive environment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and most of the time people aren't
playing in a competitive situation other than they've got a
dollar on it, right, or five dollars or fifty dollars
or whatever it is. They got money on it. So
at that point, just agree to the rules before you start.
Speaker 1: I mean, we do that at our club all the time,
even in our tournaments. Hey, we're rolling them in the fairway. Yeah,
and you know we're playing it you find it in
the rough.
Speaker 2: So and if the ball's in a divot, it's okay,
take it out. We can't hit that shot.
Speaker 3: And you know, you hit a great drive, it landed
in a divot. I'm sorry, go ahead and move it.
Speaker 1: So, you know, in most golf courses, most of your
listeners are not playing the names elite golf courses that
have perfect lies everywhere. I mean, that's just not the
golf that the rest of us play. And so you know,
we're we're playing, you know, we're playing a tougher game
because we're playing a golf course that isn't as manicured perfect,
and you know, we're hitting the longer shots into the greens,
and you know, it's a lot easier to navigate a
tough lie with a wedge in your hand than it
is with a five arm or a five would so crazy.
Speaker 3: I just got notification, two notifications, one from CNN and
one from Fox News. So it must be true if
the two of them agree to it, that you've just
been named the commissioner and the rules are of the
PGA Tour and the USGA.
Speaker 1: Those guys are so good. I think the rules ought
to be that your opponent can step on your ball
before you have to hit any you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: That happened at the Champions.
Speaker 3: All the players when the guy was looking, they were
watching seventeen.
Speaker 2: He stepped on in somebody's.
Speaker 1: Ball, you know, and you mentioned handicapped wall, and you know,
it's like, if you're gonna play by the rules and
you have to throw out handicaps, because I mean the
guys on tour don't get to get shot because there
are number one forty on the money list. Is that
at number three the rules are off. You put it
on the on the peg on the first team, and
you hold it out on the eighteenth, then how many
times you hit it, that's what count. The rules of
golf don't have anything to do with a handicap. That's
a configuration of you know, trying to figure out how
to make the game even. And you know that's another
soapbox I'll get on. But you know you mentioned a
handicap thing. I don't know what good it is really.
Speaker 2: But what what rules?
Speaker 3: If you had the opportunity and they appointed you and
ask your advice what rules to top three, four or five,
that you'd say, all right, this one's got to change.
And this again for the recreational golfer. We're talking about
USGA rules for everybody, not the tour.
Speaker 1: You know, I mean, I guess I don't know that
there's anything really wrong with the rules of golf if
they have to write the rules that applied. You know,
you mentioned bifurcation while ago, I mean, the rules are
the rules, but you know, I think divot. You could
make an argument. You know, the guy before me took
a divot. He puts sand in the divot. It's ground
under repair. He repaired his divot. That's ground under repair.
That's what he did. He repaired. It's not marked, but
it is technically that is ground under repair. There is
a divot made and a guy puts hand in it,
and maybe he did or maybe he didn't puts in
in it. It's ground need of repair, you know. So
that's probably the biggest one. But again, I don't think
the rules of golf are necessarily overly challenging. If you
want to play by the rules, play by.
Speaker 2: The rules, you know, or make them up as you
go along, you.
Speaker 1: Know, or agree with your buddy, is what we're gonna do,
you know. I you know, we talking about handicapped. While
Ago and I have I've always experime around beca. I've
always been a blessed to be a low single digit handicap.
So in a match or tournament where strokes are going
to be given, I'm going to be the guy given up, okay,
and I'll I just I feel like you cannot. The
handicapped system is an adjustment of your metal play. It's
a reflection of your metal playability, okay, and you can't
apply that to match play. I mean like this, for example,
what's your handicap right now?
Speaker 2: It's a ten to three.
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's say you're a ten on a three.
So in match play, that would mean there's seven holes
on the golf course that are one stroke harder for
you than me, and there are eleven holes that are
the same difficulty for you and me. That's an absurd concept.
The golf course is seven strokes harder for you than
me the golf course, but there aren't seven holes that
are a stroke harder for you and eleven holes that
are equal difficult for us. That that's absurd concept. So
to me, you know, if you're if you're giving, and
when I've experimented this around with different friends, and let's
just go see what happened. If to me, if you
take handicap to match play, you get if you if
you're a seven, you get, you get a tie on
the seven top handicap holes. You time me, you win,
But you can't time me by losing by twenty percent
or twenty five percent. If you think about it as
a par four hole. I make a four, you make
a five. I beat you by twenty percent on that hole.
I w at twenty percent lower score on that hole
than you were. And yet you're going to tie me.
And I didn't barely beat you. I'll beat you by
twenty percent. Be like a drum, you know. But you
get a tie because you get a stroke there. And
so I think if you do ties, it's a you're
going to get a half on those those seven holes
you have me that hole is there radically a little
more difficult for you than me. So if you time me,
you played me, played it better than I did, so
you went. But you can't time me by losing by
a full shot. So and then you know. And then
you have the funny things about handicap. And this is
one of my favorite stories about handicap. The design is
it's going to equalize us. Correct. That's the holy all right.
So I'm playing golf a few years ago with the guy.
It's a twenty four handicap. So there's six times he
gets two strokes on a hole, okay, and other than that,
the other twelve he gets a shot. So number eight,
So so part three, he hits it up with you know,
kind of skink. Some shot up there, caught one nice
and hit it up and rolled in an eighteen footer
for Birdie. I jumped up and said, drinks for everybody.
Gary just made a one. He's going to put a
one on the scorecard, isn't he? He made a two.
He's got a stroke. He put a one on the card.
If I put a one on the card, I'm gonna
have to buy drinks for everybody. He put a one
on the card, he has to buy drinks from it.
If you believe the handicap system that every hole is
a stroke harder for him than me than he did.
He made him one. So he asked my drinks for everybody,
and we get in and we had to go. We
ruined his back nine, but we had him going. But
you know, I mean, that's gonna But on the other hand,
if that guy teed it up on number one and
had to hold it out on eighteen and count them all,
I would give him his twenty four shots every day
because he can't play to it. I don't know if
he's ever played eighteen holes and really finished them all,
because after six or seven smacks, he's putting it in
his pocket putting the six or seven on the card.
You know, And I don't want to play with somebody
that's going to finish out every hole and put one
hundred and thirty on the scorecard. I don't have that
with patience. So go to the practice range and get
your golf run and learn how to play golf. There's
no such thing in my book as a thirty six handicap.
You don't have a handicap yet. You're not a real
golfer yet. You can't shoot somewhere around one hundred and
make the ball go kind of where you think it
ought to go. I might get skewered for that. That's
not snobby. I just think, go practice, Go learn how
to play the game. It's a lot more fun shooting ninety.
Speaker 2: Have you been watching TGL?
Speaker 1: I tried, but it was really so painful. I couldn't
do it.
Speaker 2: Why was it painful? I love it?
Speaker 1: I just find it. It's like, well, and I'll qualify
that I'm not a big I don't really watch much
PGA golf anyway. What I'm just it's just not interesting
to me to watch these finally tuned athletes hit it
three point fifty go find it, hit it again. I just,
you know, I just don't find it that interesting. But
the TGL thing I really find not interesting. I just
I mean, it's not golf. I'd rather go watch somebody
on their driving range and hit real golf shots. I
see real ballflight.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm starting to think about this is
that simple, you know. Over One of the things that
I've learned over these twenty years and talking to people
is so many people are trying to grow the game, right,
get more people. And the two things that I've witnessed
in this timeframe that grew the game.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll say three things.
Speaker 3: One was Tiger the interest in Tiger Woods when he
was young and vibrant and winning everything because he had
not only low scores and you were just excited to
watch him play, but he had charisma. There's some great
players out there now, but they don't have the charisma
to attract a large audience. Second thing was I think
top golf. I don't know if it necessarily grew the game,
but I got a lot of people to put a
golf club in their hand. But as somebody recently told me, listen,
how many people go bowling for fun, but then go
out and buy a golf ball, I mean a bowling ball.
Maybe not right, So maybe top Golf didn't really grow
the game for green grass golf.
Speaker 2: And the third thing that we saw that grew the
game more than anything was a global pan.
Speaker 1: Yeah, COVID is the thing that happened to this game
in a lot of ways. Sad to say, but because
everybody started working from home and realize I can do
my workload in four hours and go play golfs happening
instead of having to be at the office.
Speaker 3: Well it's something I can do with my family outside
when we're allowed to be outside.
Speaker 1: Now, there was that side of that is and it's
a challenge that we have at our club and everywhere else,
is it we put everybody in their own cart. Now
we can't get them off of the single rider carts.
It's hard to get people back. They pair up and
let's get the cart traffic off the golf course in
our particular club, not every club, but it's a it's
a it's a club wide problem because the way we
kept everybody on the golf course, everybody took their own cart. Yeah, well,
now they got used to riding in their own carts.
And now I got a fivesome out there with five
carts beating on my golf course.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I played on a single writer cart recently and I
loved it. I thought, Wow, what a great way to
speed up the pace of play when you have a foursome,
because now everyone's just sure. You can drive next to
each other when you're going down the fairway. But now
you all go to your own ball. You don't do
migratory golf for you. Two people or four people go
to one ball, then they go to the next ball,
then they go to the next That's.
Speaker 1: Just I don't know why they do that. I mean
the way we I mean to me. You know, you're
you know, you get to your buddy's ball, and yours
is across the fairway twenty five yards up. You know
about where it is, grab your range finder, a couple
of clubs, go over there and start getting ready.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 1: I think ready golf is ready golf is what speeds
up golf. And people just don't play ready golf. And
you know you'll see, like, say, you drive up, this
guy gets out of the cart, figures his shot. His
buddy's sitting in the cart, glittling his thumb and then
he hits the shot and fills his divot, puts his
club back in the bag, and then they drive ten
yards over to his body goes, oh, let me think
about my shot. Now. It's like you could have been
doing that while your buddy was hitting, and absolutely, I
mean ready golf. And and that's another reason why I
just kind of don't enjoy watching PGA Tour golf. It's
kind of like watching paint dry. I mean it's like, really,
you're playing twosomes with a caddy and you're going to
take five hours to play around the golf. Give you
have break. We played five somes and you know, and
we play in three and a half. So I mean
for twenty four point thirty for a profession around the
golf ought to be plenty at the time to go
do it, you know. And I think that the you know,
the it's a it's it's a challenge for the PGA Tour.
I mean, you know, do you want to penalize guy's
strokes or do you want to just you know, say hey,
you're you know, you guys got the first tea time
today and at four hours and fifteen minutes, you're leaving
the golf course and if you're on number seventeen, you
just got a DQ for today because you didn't finish.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: No, you know you have for fifteen minutes to play
this round the golf, so you better get after it,
you know. Wow. I mean they're not serious about it,
and it's a you know, the guys, we're playing for
a lot of money, blah blah blah. It's like, you know, yeah,
but you know, I mean, you're going to make all
the excuses you want. I'm not going on that soapbux.
I'll get off of that print.
Speaker 3: Well, my soapbox, I'm going to climb back on for
a second, because I think we're talking about growing the game.
I think simulator golf has something there that could you know,
first of all, you can play around in an hour
and a half full round. You can you know, socialize,
you don't have to do all the walk. That's what
I think about TGL and something like Tiger playing on TGL.
He can't walk four rounds of golf right now, there's
no possible he can't even play. But I mean, you know,
four rounds of golf walking. We've seen Tiger over the
last couple of years can't do it. But in a
situation where in a controlled environment where you're hitting into
a net and then you're chipping and putting onto a green,
I think that people on a social basis might really
get I think this simulator golf thing has some legs.
And I think that if people start, you know, opening
up venues that are simulator golf, bowling alley cont type
of thing, You're going to attract a lot of people.
I think that has the potential of growing the game.
And that's part of what I love about TGL is
it brings it a whole different generation and participant.
Speaker 1: And it may you know, and you know the top
golf and all that. Is it bringing new golfers to
the game. Maybe So if I if golf went to
a point where I couldn't see the ball flight, I
would not play. To me, the biggest thrill is feeling
impact and seeing that ball do exactly what you designed
it to do. Man over matter that I made that
little one point six ain't out sphere do exactly what
I wanted to and particularly like we played yesterday Tuesday
in a twenty five to thirty mile an hour win,
I mean It's like, Wow, making the golf ball do
what you wanted to with that wind, whether it's into
the wind or down win across wind. To me, that
was one of most fun rounds of golf. I ended
up like seventy seven, but it was one of the
most fun rounds of golf because it wasn't about it's
a one club win or two win. It's like, hey,
I got it twenty five miles an hour, blowing right
to left, right at that pond that's bulkheaded on the
left of green and right of the green is not
going to be an easy chip. This is going to
really require some ball control. And to me, that's what
I love. I love shot making and you know, making
the golf ball do what I wanted it to do.
You know, Ben Hogan once said he only hit two
or three perfect shots around and that multiple times what
you wanted it to do. And I mean, to me,
I'll go through that that round of golf and it's
the two or three. And I remember going to a
golf Digest research presentation years ago at the PGA Show
and they asked golfers what was their number one goal?
And I think this is universal. I want to hit
better golf shots more often. And that's what the game is,
better golf shots more often. And and here's an interesting thing.
When you have two reason close handicap guys, you know
there it's a matter who's going to get two or
three shots. Instead of giving them shots, you give them
to give them that many Mulligan use them. Anywhere you
went on the golf course two or three times, you're
going to get a do over and that's your handicap.
Speaker 2: So ooh, there is one for the rules.
Speaker 1: It really works out very interesting. Seven can play a
three with four doovers and it's a really good match.
Speaker 2: Interesting. Interesting.
Speaker 3: You said a few minutes ago that you're you've always
been blessed with a low handicap.
Speaker 2: Is that really a blessing or is that pressure?
Speaker 3: Because whenever I get down and then I'm like, oh no,
can I really play this?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's like I don't to me and
I say a blessing meaning I experienced the golf of
the game of golf at a very different level than
the twelve or fifteen or twenty handicapper, no question, because
I get to I get to challenge myself with making
that golf ball do exactly what I wanted it to do,
whether it's holding that dry twenty feet lower into the wind,
or whether it's hitting that drive and putting a little
cut on it where I wanted, or whether it's peeling
you know, five yards off of that three would lay
up so it doesn't get to the water, but it
gets closer, you know, making that iron, do this or that.
And when I say it's a blessing, I get to
appreciate the game on a much different level than somebody's
like just hoping to break ninety, you know, and and
I coined the term years ago. Golf is not a
game of numerical satisfaction. You know, to your point about
your handicap, if you shoot to your handicap today, you
played your best golf. You should not have many places
that you can say, oh yeah. But you know, however,
the better you shoot, the more those two or three
throwaways stand out, because you're going, you know, hey, I'm
a I'm a ten handicap. I st seventy seven day,
but damn I had that three pot on such and such,
or I chunked that one chip shot. But you hit
a lot of really good shots to hit that to
shoot that seventy seven. But there's nobody here. I mean,
justin Thomas shoots sixty two the other day in Boge's eighteen,
told he'd love to have that ironsht over. So the
shoot there's always a butt.
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, there's I call it a yeahb Yeah.
Speaker 1: There's always a yell button.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, but yeah, but right, every single golfer. Yeah
but I shot a sixty two. Yeah, but I hit
run out of bounds.
Speaker 1: On a world nothing stands out. It was just a
ragged day, you know. But the key to your handicap
is you know, when you look at those best eight
out of your last twenty or whatever, how what was
the range from your best to your worst? You know,
the best golf probably I ever played in my life
was years ago. I played to a pretty handicap, and
of course that was pretty tough. But in the in
the course of the year, my scores were seventy to
seventy eight for the entire year, that was my range.
I never shot worse than seventy eight, never saw better
than seventy. I mean to me, that was probably the
most consistent golf for a year that I ever had.
You know, how old were you when you did that
mid thirties? Not mad, but you know, I grew.
Speaker 3: Up and look at you forty years later, you're still
remembering it like that, like that, forty years later and
you're still holding it up as the gold standard for
your goal.
Speaker 1: I have. I have golf shots that I've hit in
my life thirty forty fifty years ago, and I still
remember vividly, of course, because that shot was just a
piece of perfection. You know, not a tour player in
the world would have wanted it any better. It was.
Speaker 2: It was. It made you an artist at that moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean for that moment. It goes back to
the you know, the seven days in Utopia and you know,
I mean, it's about see it feel at trusted. But
you've got to paint that golf shot. And I think
that's where most and I know in my own golf
ninety percent of the time, when I hit a bad shot,
it's totally not a surprise. It's not like where'd that
come from. It's like I was not even remotely prepared
to execute a shot. I didn't have a picture of
it in my mind, didn't pay attention to my setup.
My alignment was off the standing. My last wing thought was, hey,
you got the ball too far forward. Whip into your swing.
You know. It's like this game is a game of
pieces of an inch, you know. The little differences make
you know, I mean, they make big differences in where
the ball goes.
Speaker 3: Terry, I can never let you leave without asking you
about wedges and wedge play. And I think like the
biggest question that everyone would always have about the wedges
they carry is how many wedges should the recreational twelve
fifteen eighteen range handicapped player? How many wedges should they carry?
Speaker 1: You know, I've been asked that question for thirty or
forty years that I've been in business. And I think
the numbers changes because the iron manufacturers continue to crank
the lofts down on irons. And so what makes a
wedge a wedge? Is it the number or the letter
on the bottom of the golf club. Does that then
determine it's a wedge? Is it the amount of loft
that the golf club has on it? Is that what
makes it a wedge, you know? And I think that's
where the thing begins. I think that we'll use the
term wedges for your club's over forty five degrees a
loft in your back, But a forty five degree club
that has a pee on it, it's not really a wedge.
You can't hit a soft pitch shot with loft and
spin with a forty five degree golf club. So I
believe wedges. I mean we make at Edison, we make
wedges down to forty five degrees to replace the pea club,
as I call it. But wedge play really begins at
around forty eight to fifty degrees. That's where a club,
to me, really becomes a wedge where I can put
some loft on the ball, some spin on the ball well.
And I think average person needs two to three of
those in their bag, you know, fifty to fifty five,
sixty of you know, forty seven, fifty one, fifty seven,
you know whatever you're golf gapping. I think that the
idea of a full wedge is not the same as
a full seven are. A full swing pitching wedge is
about eighty percent of the speed of a full swing
seven are because the faster you try to or the
harder you try to hit wedges, they tend to go
higher and shorter. They don't go further, and you lose
control and you lose spin control. So I think a
controlled wedge, for even for tour players, a controlled wedge
swing is going to give you the most consistent results,
the biggest So so to your answer your question, I
think you know four to five degree gapping after your
nine iron is going to give you optimum swing to
swing club to club precision for dissecting a golf course. So,
if you have a five iron in your hand, thirty
feet longer, short's pretty good five ron shot. But if
you have a gap wedge in your hand, thirty feet
longer shots not very good. So I think you need
to have where if I put what I consider a
full swing nine iron, and then I pull up my
pitch wedge, my peak club, and that full swing should
give me something under fifteen yards difference ten to twelve yards,
and then ten to twelve to my gap wedge, ten
to twelve to my my I call it the midwage
because a good wedge, a gap wedge, a sand wedge,
the love weogs are all good sand clubs if they're
designed right. It's what I've always strived for. Longer bunker shot,
I'm going to hit the lower lofted wedge, a shorter
bunker shot, I'm gonna hit the higher lofted wedge. But
they all need to be good bunker clubs. They all
need to be good clubs off the tight lines. They
all need to be good clubs out of the Rough's
what led me to create the soul design that I
did thirty years ago. But I think the number one
and I know you want to wrap this up. The
number one thing that I see and I talked about
that thirty yard pitch shot while ago, one hundred foot
pitch shot. When I see recreational golfers that are stuck
at eight nine or ten twelve handicap and higher, they're
trying to hit that ball up in the air and
the ball sitting on planet Earth. You cannot hit up
on a golf ball. You can only hit down on
a golf ball because there's a planet right under it.
And you can hit up on a driver because it's
sitting up on a two inch t. But you can't
hit up on an iron shot. You can't hit up
on a wedge shot. And I tell people that are struggling,
particularly in the beginning world, if you want to improve
your wedge game, that word wedge is the key to
short game scoring. Got a golf ball and it's sitting
on the planet Earth. You got a club that's got
a lot of loft and it's got a bounce angle.
You want to wedge that club between the Earth and
the ball, and the loft will make the ball go
up and the bounce will make the club not dig.
So if you think about I got a ball and
I got a planet Earth, I want to wedge that
club under that golf ball and then the ball will
go up in the air with spin. If you do that,
you don't have to dig a big divid you don't
have to hit down on the ball. You have to
think about any of that, just to wedge the club
between the ball and the earth. And I mean a
wedge is designed to separate two things. Right, you want
to separate that ball from the Earth, then drive a
wedge between them. Kind of an interesting angle on it.
Speaker 2: No, I love that. I love that.
Speaker 3: I learned a lot just in this moment from that.
What do you mean a good bunker club? What does
a good bunker club.
Speaker 1: Bends on the bunkers? You know? I mean like our
golf course and we have a challenge with our bunkers.
We have a very high water table, so we have
bunkers that the water actually migrates up into them. So
we have like our number seven is a part three.
If you pull it, the left bunkers below the level
of the green, this wet pack sand all the time,
wet pack. But the bunker on the right is above
the level of the green and it's a little dryer,
fluffy your sand. So what kind of ounce do on
need on my sandwich? Well depends on which side of
the green. I hit it on number seven, right. So
I think what makes a good bunker glove? I see
this advent of these big, big, super wide soul wedges
that are specialized bunker clubs, but they don't work off
of tight lines, they don't work off that wet back sand.
And again I think that the same thing goes for
good bunker play. If you think about just wedging that club,
I think people get all wrapped up about hit two
inches behind the ball, one inch behind the ball, all
that nobody can aim the club that accurately. That's a
mid to high handicapper. You know, just think about you know,
wedging that ball out, you know, letting the club go
in and you have to lay the face open on
a wedge in the bunker, and if it's wet sandy,
laid open just a little bit, and if it strays handy,
laid open a lot. But you have to match the
soul design to the kind of sand that you have.
And if you play a course with tight fairways and
very soft bunkers, you probably need one of those white
soul sand wedges. And if you're balling in the hand,
leave it in the bag because it will not work
off the tight lines.
Speaker 2: So what makes Edison wedges unique.
Speaker 1: It's the way we position the mass on the golf
club where if you look at conventional wedges, the top
two thirds of the club is very thin, and we
hit the ball up in the middle to the higher
part of that face. Because we're recreational golfers, we don't
hit it down on the third groove like tour players.
So what makes Edison wedges what they are is tour
design wedges are designed for tour players who hit it
on the third groove almost all the time. That club
is to optimize for them their game, their skill set,
and they hit it on the third group. The rest
of us we make contact around the fifth or sixth
groove because we play fluffy or fairways, we don't have
their skills. Very simply, I just optimized Edison wedges around
the sixth groove instead of the third group. Because I
don't care about tour players. They got everybody else taking
care of them. And because we did that, when you
do hit it down around the third groove, the Edison
wedges spin the credit out of the ball because the
CG is so much higher, and tour players do not
want more spin on their wedges. They can't keep the
ball on the green half the time anyway because they
spin it so much with their clubhead speed. So it's
really I designed wedges to be the great compliment to
your cavity back irons, to help you hit the right
trajectory with the right spin. And how the business it's good,
you know in the wedge category, I mean, you're a
small challenger brand, and you know it's you know, people
think they have to play, you know, the ball that
the tour got plays and the wedge the tour got plays,
but they're not playing the iron the tour guy plays.
So the biggest challenge for Edison Golf is play this
golf club. Give it a try, you're going to see
a difference, and it's just a matter of having enough
marketing budget and reaching enough set of eyeballs and telling
a story that makes sense to people. Wouldn't you like
your gap wedge and your sand wedge to be as
forgiving as your seven iron. Your seven iron lets you
get away with stuff your wedge doesn't. Why do we
tolerate that? If you gave me a driver that was big,
but it had a sweet spot the size of a
pencil eraser, I'd give it right back to you. Right.
I want to be able to hit that driver all
over the face. I want to be able to hit
that seven are pretty much all over the face. Why
don't you get a wedge that I can pretty much
hit all over the face. That's what drives me and
drives Edison. I'm going to give you a wedge it
can hit pretty much all over the face and get
about the same results.
Speaker 3: Something that seems so obvious, and it's a shame that
it is so obvious, is that for a small manufacturer
like yourself at Edison Wedges, it's getting the exposure on
the TV people, you know, the high level players playing
a club like that, we've witnessed. You know, we talked
before we started recording. We were talking about lab Golf
and their success story, and a lot of it has
to do with the fact that people are seeing this club,
which is unique in its design, to say the least,
they're seeing it on the tour and their sales are exploding,
and we don't see that happening a lot. How does
a company of your size survive with a great product
that's not getting the exposure that most golf manufacturers need.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, if you look on TV, the cameras
at the cameras are at the green and they can
see a putter, and you and I have exactly the
same ability of any tour player to take a club
back four inches and get it back square to the ball.
I mean, you know, take it back eight inches, get
square to the ball. We do not have the ability
to wrap the club around behind our head and get
it back to the ball with the consistency they did.
And the further you get from the hole, the more
physical talent takes over. I mean, one of the best
putters I've ever seen in amateur golf is a guy
that only played but he only had one arm, but
he was a deadly putter because they only had to
move the club this far. Now, could he drive it
to eighty? No, he couldn't drive it to eighty, you know.
And he couldn't hit all the different shots. But on
the greens he could take it back and through and
roll the ball as good as anybody you'd ever seen,
you know, And so a putter. And you know, Hogan
said that putting and golf have nothing to do with
each other. They're two entirely different sets of physical actions,
you know. I mean it's like, hey, Lucas Glover doesn't
use a sweeper off the tea, does he know? He
plays a conventional driver in conventional irons, but he goes
to something radically different for the process of rolling the
ball across a green with consistency, that's a different challenge altogether.
It's the only shot in golf you do not want
to leave the ground right, And it's the only shot
in golf that a great one can go five feet.
No great drive ever went five feet, No great seven
iron shot ever went five feet. But there's a lot
of great putts that only went five feet right. So
it's a different game. Entirely than striking a golf ball.
Speaker 2: So true, Edison Wedges dot com.
Speaker 3: Yeah, please, I'm more than happy to let you pitch
it to your lit to the listeners here, get them
to go to Edison Wedges dot com.
Speaker 2: This is your soapbox. Go for it.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, we're doing something very different in golf,
and you spent if you're a golfer, you spent a
lot of time and energy finding the right irons that
are forgiving the right driver that's that's long, and forgiving
the right putter helps you make more puts. And you're
you're suffering with these tour design wedges. You're not playing
tour blade irons. You're not playing xCE one hundred chefs.
You don't have the skill set that the tour player does.
And that tour design wedge was specifically designed for the
skill set of a tour player. I mean, all the
big wedge companies, they talk about their tour staff over
and over and over, and how you know it's the
number one wedge. Well, you know, I came up with
the thing a while back that mathematically, golf is twenty
times harder than brain surgery mathematical because there are five
thousand brain surgeons in the United States that make over
four hundred thousand dollars a year, and there were about
two hundred and fifty professional golfers that made up for
four hundred thousand dollars on the golf course last year.
So therefore, mathematically, brain surgery is obviously twenty nine is
easier than golf. So the fact is, you know you
don't cut your steak with a brain surgeon scalpel, and
you know you're not going to optimize your green side
scoring and your wedge play with a tour player scalpel.
I mean, these are scalpels for these guys. They are
surgical instruments around the greens. We watch them every week.
These guys are magical. And I told the guy one time, said, well,
you know, how do I know when I'm good enough
to play a tour design wedge? That's easy when you
would take Phil Mickelson on one hundred dollars a shot
and in an up and down contest, when you have
that level of skilled and play as wedges.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: And to follow the wedge guy at golf wrx dot.
Speaker 2: Com, you're right.
Speaker 1: Every week I write every week at golf Wx cover
all kinds of topics, and we had a fun one
I wrote a few weeks ago, the three Sure Far
Ways to Never Get Better at Golf, and I have
a lot of fun writing it and sharing different perspectives
on the game. And you know, and again, if you're
a four handicap or fourteen or twenty four, you play
a different game, but you can still get the most
out of it by being really good inside wedge range.
Speaker 2: Well, Terry's.
Speaker 3: This is exactly why I wanted to have you in
the lead up to episode one thousand, to showcase some
of the great guests that we've had on the show,
because it's not only entertaining every time you're on, but
it's a hell of an education and I really appreciate
your time, your energy, and your passion.
Speaker 1: Well, it's always fun, Fred, and so I hope i'm
on before episode two thousand