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Speaker 1: Hi, This is Bill McDonald from Las Vegas, Nevada, and

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I play at Las Vegas, pyut. This is Golf Smarter

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number nine nine seven. Max Homa had this great comedy.

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He said, if you don't play this game for a living,

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screw the rules. Have fun. This game is impossible. There

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was an interesting story right before Live Dustin Johnson for

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the year hit one approach shot on a par four

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with more than a seven hour. For the year. Tuesday,

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I played golf. I hit five approach shots with more

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than a seven hour. We're playing a harder game than

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the pros play.

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Speaker 2: All of us are.

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Speaker 1: We're playing golf courses that are not perfect manicured. We

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get various lives in the fairway. They really don't. We're

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playing greens at mavspike marks or leaves or whatever we

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have to deal with, and we don't have their skills.

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But we're playing a harder golf course. We're longer golf

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course to our drink profile. You know this whole thing

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about the rules. My thing is if you're playing in

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a competition, yes you have played by the rules. But

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if you're playing with your buddies and the only competition

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is if somebody makes a burdy, we're all going to

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take us. Then why not give yourself a chance to

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make birdie's and you hit it nice, arrive in the

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fairway and a ball sit in a funky lie because

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it's not a tour caliber golf course, then rolling onto

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a good lie. For Pete's sake, I'm going to get

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Steward buy some golfers for that. But if I'm playing

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for fun, why do I want to fight bad lives

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when I've hit good drives.

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Speaker 2: Amateur golf is a much harder game than with the pros.

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Play with Terry the wedge Guy, Kayler. This is Golf Smarter,

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sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf minds to

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help you lower your score and raise your golf IQ.

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Speaker 1: Here's your host, Fred Green.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Golf Smarter Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Terry, it's great to be back for it always fun. God,

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we've been doing this a long time.

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Speaker 3: We really have been doing this a long time. Not

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only did we just get you on the show to

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talk about your wedge designs and whatnot as the wedge Guy,

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but we've had we did Golf Smarter tips together. You

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did a year's worth of weekly shows on that in

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the was that two thousand and seven, I think it was,

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And then we did the Short Game Academy for a

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while too, right, which actually it recently on our Friday

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episodes Ore Golf Smarter Mulligan episodes, we've been bringing back

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old shows and we've been listening to the Short Game

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Academy again. So you've been a presence. You've been a

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presence here for almost the full twenty years that we've

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been doing this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, close to it. It's been great. It's been fun.

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We've covered a lot of ground and there's always new things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's you know, I'm coming up to one thousand,

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and I'm was like, wow, one thousand, we start all over,

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go back to one. Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh.

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So how's business man. You've got Edison Wedges and you're

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the founder of this company and innovative director, right right,

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what's going on those business.

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Speaker 1: You know, we continue to push the push the envelope

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with Wedge design. We've on the Edison two point zero version.

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This is our second full year with it, and you know,

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it just following basically what I've been believing in and

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extolling the virtues of wedges. For since you've known me

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twenty plus years, thirty years, that wedges designed for tour

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players are not going to give the recreational golfer, your

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rank and file listener, your eighth to twenty and kapper.

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They're not going to give that golfer the kind of

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performance he or she is getting out of their game

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improvement irons and their hybrids and their big drivers and

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you know, their their high MOI putters, and you know,

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everything in the recreational golfer bag, everything in that bag

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is some kind of a game improvement designed to help

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them hit better iron shots, make more putts, hit longer drives.

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And yet they're ninety eight percent of them are trying

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to play the wedges the tour players play, and it's

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the most finicky golf club in the bag. And they

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wouldn't dream of teeing up, you know, putting his tour

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blade irons in the bag, you know, playing a three iron.

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You know, they wouldn't dream of that. And yet they're

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trying to work with the wedges. And you know, I'm

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the lone voice in the wilderness about you are not

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good enough to optimize that golf club. Roy McElroy is

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and Scotty Scheffler is, but the rest of us are

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not even low single digits. We do not have remotely

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the kind of skills and touch those guys at. And

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so why try to play a golf club that requires

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precision impact on every shot because wedges, by nature are

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the hardest clubs to hit. We'll come back to that,

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but you know, I continue to be the voice in

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the wilderness that you know your wedges need to be

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different than their wedges, just like your irons and your

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hybrids and your driver need to be different. Your shafts

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need to be your ball you play. So that's been

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my story for thirty years. And because it's right, it's true,

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and you're sticking to it. I'm sticking to it because

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I know it worked.

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Speaker 2: That's right, that's right.

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Speaker 3: I would say that of all the clubs, and not

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only for myself but the people I play with and

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that I watch, that the most difficult club or the

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most frustrating, I would say, would probably be starting with

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the driver. That's where people are like, oh shoot, I'll

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try it again. But the wedges, the short game stuff,

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is where you see most frustration and anger. A listener

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once told me he was playing with his dad and

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when he was a kid, and he got upset and

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threw his wedge, and his dad was like, son, you're

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not good enough to throw your wedge yet.

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Speaker 1: That's a good one. You know. When I grew up

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playing golf, and I've been very blast in life. I

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turned seventy three last week. And you know I grew

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up with when I was five or six years old,

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I had a person two wood and a five iron

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and a nine iron and a putter. And you know,

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through my early twenties and the even into my thirties

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playing for some of the drivers, and the driver was the

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hardest club to master. And we didn't carry a lot

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of sand wedges. Our pitching wedge had fifty two degrees.

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As often you pitch the ball with it. Well, it's

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reversed now because the big high MOI four hundred and

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sixty sec drivers are so forgiving. They're so long, I mean,

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and every shot is hit off of a te so

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you know, you can hit it all over the face

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of the club and get about the same results. So

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the driver, in my opinion, have become the easiest club

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in the bag to master. The wedges have become the

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hardest club in the bag to master because a they

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haven't changed in forty years significantly. If you go look

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at forty fifty year old wedges and forty fifty year

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old drivers and then look at what's in the bag today,

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the drivers are radically different wedges or not. But because

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the wedge has you know, fifty to fifty five sixty

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degrees a loft thread, every shot is a glancing blow.

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It's very hard to make consistent contact with a wedge,

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whereas a seven iron, you know, twenty nine to thirty

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degrees aloft, it's a pretty direct blow. The driver with

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ten to twelve degrees is a very direct blow. But

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the wedge is a glancing blow and so little variances

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and you know, an impact make a lot of difference

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on a wedge anyway, and my work has always been

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to try to equalize that smash factor up and down

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the face that club. We had a lot of wedge

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shots high in the face. We had a lot of

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wedge shots, a little out on the toe, maybe scoop

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the ball a little bit, but more shots are wasted

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inside fifty yards of the green than anywhere. And I

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would say even more than on the green.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I have the joy the beauty of since I

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started playing golf in my early forties, and I didn't

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start like you start as a kid. So many people

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that I come across that when they did start playing

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as a kid, they've got hard and fast rules of

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how they're supposed to be doing things or what they

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like and what they don't like. And as someone who

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started later in life, I'm wide open to new ideas

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all the time, right, And when I present new ideas

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like this to these hard and fast players, they're like, no,

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that's not the way we do it. It's like, yeah,

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you know, yes it is now it is, and we

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ain't going back.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, if you're if you're playing low single

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digit golf and you're doing it your way, then your

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way is probably right. But if if your way is

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still delivering scores in the eighties and nineties, then your

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way isn't right. I mean, it'll be open to doing

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something different. And you know, I wrote a blog a

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while back and I'm I think one of the big

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biggest things that drives people to be frustrated and stuck

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in the high eighties and nineties is this cons I'm

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kind of going off on the tangent here, but you

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know I do that. But the idea that we play

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heard this show before left handed, and I think the

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idea of playing golf right handed or left handed, it

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takes people down the wrong path because, in my opinion,

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Phil Micholson plays golf right handed, and the rest of

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us that you know, Roy McRoy, Tiger Woods on down,

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we play golf left handed because we play golf from

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the left side of the ball. If you're facing the target,

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if you if you're going to play it from the

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left side of that ball, then you play left sided.

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You don't play handed. You play sided, and don't looking

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down from the ball down the fairway. He's standing on

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the right side of the ball. He plays right sided.

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Because this is a game of back handing the golf ball.

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You've got to swing the golf club and not hit

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at it with your right hand. And the idea that

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you play right handed means I'm going to take the

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club in my right hand, I'm try master hand, and

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I'm going to take this two inch striking surface. I'm

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going to put it behind my head and then in

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two tenths of a second I'm going to deliver it

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squarely to the back of the golf ball, right in

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the center of the face. And I've got the eye

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hand coordination do that. You don't. Nobody has that hat

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right hand coordination. And if you play with your lead side,

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your error, your error factor comes way in. Yeah, we

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still hit bad shot, but almost invariably every mid to

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high handicapper you can tell they're trying to play the

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game right handed and just you'll never groove it, You'll

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never get there.

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Speaker 2: WHOA, I'm kind of blown away.

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Speaker 3: Never had that thought in my head about playing from

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sighted versus handed. It really kind of rattles my perspective

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on things. Yeah, that's incredible.

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Speaker 2: Your blog is The Wedge Guy.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I write the blog for golf gob rxs The

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Wedge Guy, and then we published that blog on our

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own website as well.

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Speaker 2: And is that available on substack? Are you doing that

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too or are you not?

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Speaker 1: That I'm not doing that at all really, just you know,

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my publishing arrangement with golfgovir x dot com is I

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write for them and they're the exclude a publisher of that.

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But you know, but we do we do reproduce those

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blog posts on our own website for the Edison followers.

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Speaker 3: I'm glad we brought up the your what you're doing

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for a golf WRX as far as your blog because

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you've written some recently that just intrigued me and I

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couldn't wait to talk to you about it. And again,

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thank you for being part of this journey to one thousand.

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I really appreciate your cooperation all through the years.

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Speaker 2: So, like, I want to go.

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Speaker 3: On one of the blog posts that I just found

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so interesting is something about, you know, we keep a handicap,

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which I'm I'm okay with, I get it. I just

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don't like the idea that we gamble off of our

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potential as opposed to our average score, right, because the

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handicap takes eight of your twenty scores and says, this

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is what your handicap is because that's your potent and

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what you're going to play as opposed to when you're

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gambling and you're not looking at your average scorees Like, okay,

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I'll go against you on that. That's a whole different topic,

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but we can.

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Speaker 1: Dive into that because I was having a conversation about

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handicap and handling and betting, and we can go into that,

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but go on with where you're going now.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to talk about what the idea of a

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short game handicap is like.

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Speaker 2: Keeping track of how you do.

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Speaker 3: From one hundred yards and in or one hundred and

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twenty five yards and in and where does that fit

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in your normal handicap? Are you like, if you're a

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twelve or thirteen handicap index, are you a nine on

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the short game handicap or you a fifteen?

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Speaker 2: Is that what's hurting you and that's what you should

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be working on. I want to know where you went

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with that.

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Speaker 1: Well, and you know that was the point of that

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whole thing, you know, with people, And I hear people

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all the time and they find him in the golfman

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and they go, oh, well, you know, I'm not very

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good golfer and I don't play as much as i'd like. Well,

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I've never met the guy says I'm really good and

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I play too much. I've never met that guy. So,

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but yeah, I do have a short game handicap. Is

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I know guys at our club that are twelve handicap.

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They're not long enough even from the gold tees, so

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they're playing a par eighty four golf course, so they're

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really about a six because you know, we've got a

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par six. We've got probably seven to nine par fives

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that they're playing because you know, the game is not

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meant to be played where a par four is a

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driver a five wood and you still have forty yards

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to go. That's not a par four hole. And you know,

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gets into the whole topic of playing the right ts.

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I've got a good friend I play with a lot,

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Larry's eighty one, and I finally got him to go

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up the Silver teas and he's having a ball because

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he's playing a golf course that he can get the

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one par five and who now with a good drive,

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he doesn't play any three shot par fours. And you know,

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all of a sudden he's shooting seventy seven and seventy nine.

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Is because he's playing the right teas, because I mean

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he hits it, you know, like the irrigation line has

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laid out. But you know, if he's playing back at

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the gold tees, he's playing a par eighty four golf course, well, no,

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you're not going to shoot your age, you know. And

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so you know, but the whole handicap thing, the short

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game handicap. You know, by the same token, I've played

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guys that hit it a mile, but they're they're fourteens

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because inside one hundred yards they have no idea what

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to do, you know, And I mean they're hitting wedge

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twelve times around shooting eighty four. It's like, how do

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you do that? And so you know, And I don't

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like using yards as where scoring begins because I mean,

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like Larry one point thirty is a seven irons five

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iron for him, Well, that's not scoring range. The next

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guy's a gap wedge. Well, yeah, you should be scoring

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the golf course with a gap wedge in your hand.

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So in that in that Short Game Handicap blog, I wrote,

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it's when you put a nine iron in your hand,

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whether that's your ninety yard club or your one hundred

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and sixty yard club. When you put a nine iron

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or less in your hand, that's when you have to

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take it to the golf course. That's when you get

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to go on the offensive. And I used to say

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that was a seven iron shot, but nine irons now

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have the loft of what seven arms used to have.

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So I'll use the nine rons. And what I try

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to teach and help our higher handicappers and our ladies

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understand is it is not a physical challenge to hit

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a thirty yard web shot up in the air with

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some spin. Anybody can hit it thirty yards up in

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the air with some spin. We've got several greens in

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our course that are very small, and if you don't

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have that shot, you can't play our golf course, you know,

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because that little thirty yard shot is going to go

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over the green on you because you don't hit you

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don't know how to hit it with enough spin. So

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you know, the idea is that if you can make

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them all go up in the air with some been,

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to stop it within six or eight feet of where

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it lands. I know you don't have to learn how

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to back it up. But if you can hit it

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up in the air, stop it within six to eight

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feet of where it lands, then you can play golf

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and you can turn that thirty yard shot. Maybe sixty

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or seventy yards is as far out as you can

321
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hit that shot. Or but if you can hit really

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good shots from seventy yards and d you can play

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to your ten, you can play to your four, you

324
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can play to your you know you can. You're going

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to lower your your overall handicap. If you look at

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how many shots you take that from seventy eighty ninety

327
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yards and end that that. You know, I always said,

328
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when you're hitting your second wedge on the hole, this

329
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is not a good thing. You know, when you pull

330
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a wedge shot, your next shot should be a putt

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ninety percent of the time, and it's not going to.

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Speaker 2: End hopefully a short butt, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, even if you look at the tour guys

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in that short game handicap, I said, half of your

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green side saves should get inside ten feet if you're

336
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a medium skilled golfer, and if you're a highly skilled golfer,

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that number should go to three fourths of your green side.

338
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Say you're going to cfently have that really tough short

339
00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:11,519
sided shot and you're not going to get it within

340
00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:13,880
ten feet. I don't care if you're not a tour player,

341
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you know, but I think keeping track of your short

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game handicap with the little formula that I gave you know,

343
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it's going to help you realize. Wow, if I would

344
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,079
go out and really learn how to hit better pitches

345
00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:30,359
and chips, my my sixteen could become a twelve like that.

346
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You know, my twelve could become a nine. You know,

347
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my my nine could become a six, you know, because

348
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I'm looking how many shots I just threw away with

349
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a wedge or nine iron in my hand.

350
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Speaker 3: So, yeah, it was amazing to me that when I

351
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started really concentrating on my short game, you know, around

352
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the green and inside fifty seventy five hundred yards and

353
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started getting kind of good at it, my index definitely changed.

354
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Speaker 2: There was no question how it dropped.

355
00:18:03,759 --> 00:18:07,200
Speaker 3: But what I also noticed is just because you practice

356
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it and you've got your index down doesn't mean you've

357
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got to stop.

358
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Speaker 2: You can stop practicing you've got it in your bag.

359
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:17,960
Speaker 3: No, you really have to concentrate and consistently work on

360
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,880
the shortcam when you go to the drawing range. Don't

361
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,000
pull out the driver, hit that two or three times

362
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,319
and then use the rest of the bucket to play

363
00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:26,599
within one hundred yards.

364
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Speaker 1: Well, that and my personal you know, And there's a

365
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,680
difference between your pre round warm up and going out

366
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,640
to practice. There's a difference between them. Oh yeah, but

367
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,160
my pre round warm up typically I'll hit thirty or

368
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,720
forty wedges and then three or four eight rons, three

369
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or four six irons, a couple of fairway woods, and

370
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I'll hit one drive. If it goes good, I'm going

371
00:18:50,759 --> 00:18:52,880
to the tee. If it doesn't good, I'm hit a

372
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second drive. And it goes good, I'm going to the

373
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t Because I mean, and I've been real blessed to

374
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be a really good driver of the ball, which I've

375
00:18:59,599 --> 00:19:02,119
written a blog post about. That's your first scoring club.

376
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,640
Your driver is your first scoring club because nobody scores

377
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,960
the golf course well from all over the lot. Yeah,

378
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,359
the golf course is every golf course out there plays

379
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,720
easier from the fairway, every golf course, every golf course.

380
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,000
Speaker 3: So you said you do that in your warm up.

381
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,559
Do you get up, do you get to practice? Do

382
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:21,279
you practice?

383
00:19:21,279 --> 00:19:23,599
Speaker 2: And tell me about how you approach that.

384
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,599
Speaker 1: You know I've gone through. I'm historically a ranger at

385
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,160
I mean, if I don't have time to go play

386
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,440
eighteen holes of golfer, nobody wants to play, you know,

387
00:19:33,519 --> 00:19:36,559
I'll go grab a car. I'm very blessed. I live

388
00:19:36,839 --> 00:19:39,039
like three hundred yards down that way to the club,

389
00:19:39,079 --> 00:19:41,960
so I can walk down eighteen fairway and get a cart,

390
00:19:42,079 --> 00:19:45,400
go over to our range. Nice and I love going

391
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,559
out hitting one hundred and fifty two hundred balls, but

392
00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,559
I'll hit half of those with wedges and short shots,

393
00:19:52,599 --> 00:19:55,240
just practicing making the ball do different things, you know,

394
00:19:55,319 --> 00:19:58,519
from ten to thirty yards, making the ball do different things,

395
00:19:58,559 --> 00:20:01,839
different flight, because you know, I mean, I'll do this

396
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,319
for a living. I'm always experimenting with different things. Maybe

397
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:08,039
I saw a tip that somebody had and on hitting

398
00:20:08,079 --> 00:20:11,400
this webshot or that shot or whatever, and you know,

399
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,480
and I'm always messed around, going, hey, I think I

400
00:20:13,519 --> 00:20:16,039
want to change my ball flight from slight fade to

401
00:20:16,559 --> 00:20:18,279
a draw and just see if I like it. So

402
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,519
I'll go work on something like that. It's like going

403
00:20:20,559 --> 00:20:25,799
to the lab for me, you know. And I'll pull

404
00:20:25,799 --> 00:20:28,920
out old stuff too. I'll go find a set of

405
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,319
you know, nineteen seventy five Hogan Blaze and one I

406
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,359
remember when I played those, Wonder what they're like now,

407
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,119
And so, you know, I'll go do things like that.

408
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 3: And what does it do when you pull something old

409
00:20:39,279 --> 00:20:42,559
out after you've you know, gone through three more iterations

410
00:20:42,559 --> 00:20:44,759
of design that you've done and you pulled out an

411
00:20:44,759 --> 00:20:47,759
old one, It's like, oh, I remember why I like this?

412
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:52,039
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, And I'm still I'll take my read lock

413
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,119
art for someone driver out and play around with it

414
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,519
every once in a while, just play nine olds and

415
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,279
just to remind myself of how hard driving the ball

416
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:00,920
used to be.

417
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,119
Speaker 3: One of the blogs that I was interested in, and

418
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:12,880
this is going to go to a couple of different

419
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:18,160
topics in our conversation was playing by the rules for

420
00:21:18,319 --> 00:21:19,279
the amateur golfer?

421
00:21:20,519 --> 00:21:21,240
Speaker 2: Do we need to.

422
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,319
Speaker 3: Play the same rules. I mean, I'm a big fan

423
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,160
of bifurcation. I think there should be a set of

424
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,480
rules for the tour and a set of rules for

425
00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:30,599
the ninety nine point five percent of all other golfers

426
00:21:30,599 --> 00:21:33,400
in the world. It's like, why are we playing the

427
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,119
rules of the guys who do this for a living

428
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,359
and that you know that they're doing it ten hours

429
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,200
a day, and then we watch them on TV thinking

430
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:42,160
we can do that.

431
00:21:44,039 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 1: Well, you know, and I think the first rule if

432
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,240
you're you know. I wrote in this blog that that

433
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,160
article that Max Homa had this great comedy. He said,

434
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,400
if you don't play this game for a living, screw

435
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,200
the rules. Have fun. This game is impossible. That was

436
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,240
that was as quote. Within a couple of weeks words

437
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,559
of that awesome I mean, golf is a very hard game.

438
00:22:02,599 --> 00:22:05,200
And I'm and I've written about this before too, like

439
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,880
I played, I kind of go back for it being

440
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,119
seventy three. If I'm the only guy in our group

441
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,400
that I'll play the men's regular teas most of the time,

442
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,160
but I'll go up and play the gold ties with

443
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,240
the guys every once in a while. And when I

444
00:22:17,279 --> 00:22:20,720
do it, to me is like now I'm playing PGA

445
00:22:20,799 --> 00:22:24,640
Tour golf because I'm hitting twelve wedge approaches. I got

446
00:22:24,759 --> 00:22:26,920
two par fives I can hit with a middle iron,

447
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,920
and you know, and I never I never have pull up,

448
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:31,839
you know, other than those par fives, I don't hit

449
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,880
any approach shot with over a seven iron. And I

450
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,799
played last the other day, I played I've had a

451
00:22:38,839 --> 00:22:41,039
golf writer in now, so we played the White T's

452
00:22:41,519 --> 00:22:44,279
And you know my golf course from the White T's,

453
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:48,000
I'm it's a it's a five seven eight iron golf course. Well,

454
00:22:48,039 --> 00:22:51,079
tour players don't play five seven eight iron approaches. They

455
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,440
play wedge with my approaches all the way around. There

456
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:58,440
was an interesting story right before Live Dustin Johnson for

457
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,319
the for the year hitt approach shot on a par

458
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,960
four with more than a seven hour for the year. Okay, Tuesday,

459
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,359
I played golf. I hit five approach shots with more

460
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,200
than a seven, hon so, and he did it in

461
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,960
an year. So we're playing a harder game than the

462
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,640
pros play. All of us are. We're playing golf courses

463
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,799
that are not perfect manicured. You know, we get various

464
00:23:20,839 --> 00:23:23,720
lives in the fairway. They really don't. You know, We're

465
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,200
playing greens that you know, may have spike marks or

466
00:23:26,279 --> 00:23:29,200
leaves or whatever we are to deal with, and we

467
00:23:29,279 --> 00:23:31,839
don't have their skills. But we're playing a harder golf course.

468
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:36,160
We're longer golf course to our drink profile. So you

469
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,200
know this whole thing about the rules. My thing is,

470
00:23:39,039 --> 00:23:41,599
if you're playing in a competition, yes you have played

471
00:23:41,599 --> 00:23:45,480
by the rules, but you know the rules are designed

472
00:23:45,519 --> 00:23:49,559
to level the competition. If you're playing with your buddies

473
00:23:49,599 --> 00:23:52,200
and the only competition is if somebody makes a murdy,

474
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,440
we're all going to take a shot, then why not

475
00:23:54,559 --> 00:23:56,920
give yourself a chance to make birdies and you hit

476
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,000
it nice, arrive in the fairway, and the ball sitting

477
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,039
in a funky lot because it's not a tour caliber

478
00:24:02,079 --> 00:24:04,759
golf course, then roll it onto a good lie for

479
00:24:04,839 --> 00:24:07,319
Pete's sake. I'm going to get skewered by some golfers

480
00:24:07,319 --> 00:24:10,400
for that. But if I'm playing for fun, why do

481
00:24:10,519 --> 00:24:13,920
I want to fight bad lives when I've hit good drives?

482
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,079
Why do I want to do that? You know, I'm

483
00:24:16,079 --> 00:24:19,400
playing for fun out here today. And I mean, I

484
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,720
know there are groups out there that you know, but

485
00:24:21,799 --> 00:24:23,880
I've played golf courses and I played the ball down

486
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,279
all the time. Our golf course. We have seven different

487
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,880
kinds of turf grass out here. We've got challenging water

488
00:24:31,319 --> 00:24:33,720
and soil conditions, and we have areas in the middle

489
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,039
of fairways that are just bare well, roll it over

490
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,279
to a decent line. Hit yourself a nine n or

491
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,559
seven ron, whatever you have. You know, I'm not going

492
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,480
to put a t in the ground in the fairway

493
00:24:43,599 --> 00:24:46,000
or anything. But you know, I mean, you can carry

494
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,400
some things that go too far. You can carry this

495
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,480
rule thing too far. I mean, and hey, the rules

496
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,400
of golf say you hold out every put How many

497
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,480
people really do that? So my content is very few

498
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,039
people really play by the rules. When you hit a

499
00:24:58,079 --> 00:25:00,319
putt up and it finishes four inches from the hold

500
00:25:00,319 --> 00:25:02,519
of your buddy's hit it back because that's the violation

501
00:25:02,599 --> 00:25:05,839
of the rules of golf, you know, and you know,

502
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:07,440
and so I think it's a matter of you know,

503
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,480
play golf for fun, play golf for enjoyment, play golf

504
00:25:10,519 --> 00:25:12,799
for the challenge. If you're playing golf at a high

505
00:25:12,839 --> 00:25:14,759
competitive level, and yeah, you need to play by the

506
00:25:14,799 --> 00:25:18,000
rules has written because you're matching yourself to other people

507
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,279
in a competitive environment.

508
00:25:19,759 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and most of the time people aren't

509
00:25:22,279 --> 00:25:25,839
playing in a competitive situation other than they've got a

510
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,519
dollar on it, right, or five dollars or fifty dollars

511
00:25:28,599 --> 00:25:30,519
or whatever it is. They got money on it. So

512
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,680
at that point, just agree to the rules before you start.

513
00:25:34,079 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: I mean, we do that at our club all the time,

514
00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:40,079
even in our tournaments. Hey, we're rolling them in the fairway. Yeah,

515
00:25:40,079 --> 00:25:42,119
and you know we're playing it you find it in

516
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:42,519
the rough.

517
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,799
Speaker 2: So and if the ball's in a divot, it's okay,

518
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,400
take it out. We can't hit that shot.

519
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,599
Speaker 3: And you know, you hit a great drive, it landed

520
00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:54,759
in a divot. I'm sorry, go ahead and move it.

521
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,319
Speaker 1: So, you know, in most golf courses, most of your

522
00:25:57,319 --> 00:26:01,920
listeners are not playing the names elite golf courses that

523
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,319
have perfect lies everywhere. I mean, that's just not the

524
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,079
golf that the rest of us play. And so you know,

525
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,279
we're we're playing, you know, we're playing a tougher game

526
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,720
because we're playing a golf course that isn't as manicured perfect,

527
00:26:14,759 --> 00:26:17,880
and you know, we're hitting the longer shots into the greens,

528
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,559
and you know, it's a lot easier to navigate a

529
00:26:20,559 --> 00:26:22,200
tough lie with a wedge in your hand than it

530
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,880
is with a five arm or a five would so crazy.

531
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 3: I just got notification, two notifications, one from CNN and

532
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,519
one from Fox News. So it must be true if

533
00:26:33,519 --> 00:26:35,640
the two of them agree to it, that you've just

534
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,440
been named the commissioner and the rules are of the

535
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,799
PGA Tour and the USGA.

536
00:26:42,519 --> 00:26:44,519
Speaker 1: Those guys are so good. I think the rules ought

537
00:26:44,519 --> 00:26:46,559
to be that your opponent can step on your ball

538
00:26:46,599 --> 00:26:50,440
before you have to hit any you know what I mean.

539
00:26:50,839 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 2: That happened at the Champions.

540
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 3: All the players when the guy was looking, they were

541
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:56,039
watching seventeen.

542
00:26:56,079 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 2: He stepped on in somebody's.

543
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: Ball, you know, and you mentioned handicapped wall, and you know,

544
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:02,440
it's like, if you're gonna play by the rules and

545
00:27:02,519 --> 00:27:05,039
you have to throw out handicaps, because I mean the

546
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,279
guys on tour don't get to get shot because there

547
00:27:07,279 --> 00:27:09,119
are number one forty on the money list. Is that

548
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,759
at number three the rules are off. You put it

549
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,920
on the on the peg on the first team, and

550
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:15,640
you hold it out on the eighteenth, then how many

551
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,960
times you hit it, that's what count. The rules of

552
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,960
golf don't have anything to do with a handicap. That's

553
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,720
a configuration of you know, trying to figure out how

554
00:27:22,759 --> 00:27:24,920
to make the game even. And you know that's another

555
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,160
soapbox I'll get on. But you know you mentioned a

556
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,000
handicap thing. I don't know what good it is really.

557
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 2: But what what rules?

558
00:27:34,599 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 3: If you had the opportunity and they appointed you and

559
00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:41,240
ask your advice what rules to top three, four or five,

560
00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:44,119
that you'd say, all right, this one's got to change.

561
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,240
And this again for the recreational golfer. We're talking about

562
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,119
USGA rules for everybody, not the tour.

563
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 1: You know, I mean, I guess I don't know that

564
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,400
there's anything really wrong with the rules of golf if

565
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,720
they have to write the rules that applied. You know,

566
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,160
you mentioned bifurcation while ago, I mean, the rules are

567
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:11,079
the rules, but you know, I think divot. You could

568
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,640
make an argument. You know, the guy before me took

569
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:18,000
a divot. He puts sand in the divot. It's ground

570
00:28:18,039 --> 00:28:21,160
under repair. He repaired his divot. That's ground under repair.

571
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,640
That's what he did. He repaired. It's not marked, but

572
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:29,039
it is technically that is ground under repair. There is

573
00:28:29,079 --> 00:28:30,880
a divot made and a guy puts hand in it,

574
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,599
and maybe he did or maybe he didn't puts in

575
00:28:33,599 --> 00:28:36,319
in it. It's ground need of repair, you know. So

576
00:28:37,599 --> 00:28:41,519
that's probably the biggest one. But again, I don't think

577
00:28:41,519 --> 00:28:46,880
the rules of golf are necessarily overly challenging. If you

578
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,319
want to play by the rules, play by.

579
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,759
Speaker 2: The rules, you know, or make them up as you

580
00:28:50,759 --> 00:28:51,559
go along, you.

581
00:28:51,599 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: Know, or agree with your buddy, is what we're gonna do,

582
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,400
you know. I you know, we talking about handicapped. While

583
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,200
Ago and I have I've always experime around beca. I've

584
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,880
always been a blessed to be a low single digit handicap.

585
00:29:04,359 --> 00:29:09,480
So in a match or tournament where strokes are going

586
00:29:09,559 --> 00:29:12,000
to be given, I'm going to be the guy given up, okay,

587
00:29:12,519 --> 00:29:17,839
and I'll I just I feel like you cannot. The

588
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,519
handicapped system is an adjustment of your metal play. It's

589
00:29:21,519 --> 00:29:26,279
a reflection of your metal playability, okay, and you can't

590
00:29:26,319 --> 00:29:30,440
apply that to match play. I mean like this, for example,

591
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,839
what's your handicap right now?

592
00:29:32,839 --> 00:29:34,279
Speaker 2: It's a ten to three.

593
00:29:34,519 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's say you're a ten on a three.

594
00:29:37,039 --> 00:29:39,920
So in match play, that would mean there's seven holes

595
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,880
on the golf course that are one stroke harder for

596
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:44,839
you than me, and there are eleven holes that are

597
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,799
the same difficulty for you and me. That's an absurd concept.

598
00:29:49,079 --> 00:29:52,200
The golf course is seven strokes harder for you than

599
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,559
me the golf course, but there aren't seven holes that

600
00:29:56,599 --> 00:29:59,079
are a stroke harder for you and eleven holes that

601
00:29:59,119 --> 00:30:02,880
are equal difficult for us. That that's absurd concept. So

602
00:30:04,039 --> 00:30:07,599
to me, you know, if you're if you're giving, and

603
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,720
when I've experimented this around with different friends, and let's

604
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,319
just go see what happened. If to me, if you

605
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,599
take handicap to match play, you get if you if

606
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,960
you're a seven, you get, you get a tie on

607
00:30:21,039 --> 00:30:25,119
the seven top handicap holes. You time me, you win,

608
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,119
But you can't time me by losing by twenty percent

609
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,359
or twenty five percent. If you think about it as

610
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,279
a par four hole. I make a four, you make

611
00:30:33,319 --> 00:30:38,480
a five. I beat you by twenty percent on that hole.

612
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,480
I w at twenty percent lower score on that hole

613
00:30:41,559 --> 00:30:43,640
than you were. And yet you're going to tie me.

614
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:46,480
And I didn't barely beat you. I'll beat you by

615
00:30:46,559 --> 00:30:49,359
twenty percent. Be like a drum, you know. But you

616
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,720
get a tie because you get a stroke there. And

617
00:30:51,799 --> 00:30:55,079
so I think if you do ties, it's a you're

618
00:30:55,079 --> 00:30:57,960
going to get a half on those those seven holes

619
00:30:58,279 --> 00:31:00,759
you have me that hole is there radically a little

620
00:31:00,839 --> 00:31:03,119
more difficult for you than me. So if you time me,

621
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,480
you played me, played it better than I did, so

622
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,720
you went. But you can't time me by losing by

623
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,279
a full shot. So and then you know. And then

624
00:31:13,319 --> 00:31:15,759
you have the funny things about handicap. And this is

625
00:31:15,799 --> 00:31:18,839
one of my favorite stories about handicap. The design is

626
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,359
it's going to equalize us. Correct. That's the holy all right.

627
00:31:22,559 --> 00:31:24,880
So I'm playing golf a few years ago with the guy.

628
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,640
It's a twenty four handicap. So there's six times he

629
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,839
gets two strokes on a hole, okay, and other than that,

630
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,359
the other twelve he gets a shot. So number eight,

631
00:31:34,359 --> 00:31:36,519
So so part three, he hits it up with you know,

632
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,119
kind of skink. Some shot up there, caught one nice

633
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,720
and hit it up and rolled in an eighteen footer

634
00:31:41,799 --> 00:31:46,279
for Birdie. I jumped up and said, drinks for everybody.

635
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,240
Gary just made a one. He's going to put a

636
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,720
one on the scorecard, isn't he? He made a two.

637
00:31:52,759 --> 00:31:54,519
He's got a stroke. He put a one on the card.

638
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,079
If I put a one on the card, I'm gonna

639
00:31:56,079 --> 00:31:58,359
have to buy drinks for everybody. He put a one

640
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,000
on the card, he has to buy drinks from it.

641
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,279
If you believe the handicap system that every hole is

642
00:32:03,319 --> 00:32:05,960
a stroke harder for him than me than he did.

643
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,839
He made him one. So he asked my drinks for everybody,

644
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:11,440
and we get in and we had to go. We

645
00:32:11,519 --> 00:32:14,319
ruined his back nine, but we had him going. But

646
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,160
you know, I mean, that's gonna But on the other hand,

647
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,880
if that guy teed it up on number one and

648
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:22,920
had to hold it out on eighteen and count them all,

649
00:32:23,599 --> 00:32:25,440
I would give him his twenty four shots every day

650
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,880
because he can't play to it. I don't know if

651
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,559
he's ever played eighteen holes and really finished them all,

652
00:32:30,559 --> 00:32:34,279
because after six or seven smacks, he's putting it in

653
00:32:34,279 --> 00:32:36,559
his pocket putting the six or seven on the card.

654
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,000
You know, And I don't want to play with somebody

655
00:32:39,279 --> 00:32:41,240
that's going to finish out every hole and put one

656
00:32:41,279 --> 00:32:44,000
hundred and thirty on the scorecard. I don't have that

657
00:32:44,119 --> 00:32:46,720
with patience. So go to the practice range and get

658
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,519
your golf run and learn how to play golf. There's

659
00:32:48,559 --> 00:32:51,160
no such thing in my book as a thirty six handicap.

660
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,200
You don't have a handicap yet. You're not a real

661
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,519
golfer yet. You can't shoot somewhere around one hundred and

662
00:32:56,599 --> 00:32:58,440
make the ball go kind of where you think it

663
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,480
ought to go. I might get skewered for that. That's

664
00:33:00,519 --> 00:33:03,160
not snobby. I just think, go practice, Go learn how

665
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,079
to play the game. It's a lot more fun shooting ninety.

666
00:33:11,279 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 2: Have you been watching TGL?

667
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,119
Speaker 1: I tried, but it was really so painful. I couldn't

668
00:33:17,119 --> 00:33:17,359
do it.

669
00:33:17,759 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 2: Why was it painful? I love it?

670
00:33:19,559 --> 00:33:22,359
Speaker 1: I just find it. It's like, well, and I'll qualify

671
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,279
that I'm not a big I don't really watch much

672
00:33:24,319 --> 00:33:28,680
PGA golf anyway. What I'm just it's just not interesting

673
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,000
to me to watch these finally tuned athletes hit it

674
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,640
three point fifty go find it, hit it again. I just,

675
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,519
you know, I just don't find it that interesting. But

676
00:33:37,559 --> 00:33:41,160
the TGL thing I really find not interesting. I just

677
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,279
I mean, it's not golf. I'd rather go watch somebody

678
00:33:44,319 --> 00:33:46,279
on their driving range and hit real golf shots. I

679
00:33:46,319 --> 00:33:47,160
see real ballflight.

680
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,279
Speaker 3: You know what I'm starting to think about this is

681
00:33:51,359 --> 00:33:54,400
that simple, you know. Over One of the things that

682
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,079
I've learned over these twenty years and talking to people

683
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,319
is so many people are trying to grow the game, right,

684
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,119
get more people. And the two things that I've witnessed

685
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,720
in this timeframe that grew the game.

686
00:34:07,319 --> 00:34:08,599
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll say three things.

687
00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 3: One was Tiger the interest in Tiger Woods when he

688
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,960
was young and vibrant and winning everything because he had

689
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,039
not only low scores and you were just excited to

690
00:34:23,039 --> 00:34:25,719
watch him play, but he had charisma. There's some great

691
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,800
players out there now, but they don't have the charisma

692
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,760
to attract a large audience. Second thing was I think

693
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:36,760
top golf. I don't know if it necessarily grew the game,

694
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:38,480
but I got a lot of people to put a

695
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,239
golf club in their hand. But as somebody recently told me, listen,

696
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,760
how many people go bowling for fun, but then go

697
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,719
out and buy a golf ball, I mean a bowling ball.

698
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,440
Maybe not right, So maybe top Golf didn't really grow

699
00:34:52,559 --> 00:34:54,559
the game for green grass golf.

700
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 2: And the third thing that we saw that grew the

701
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,119
game more than anything was a global pan.

702
00:35:01,199 --> 00:35:04,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, COVID is the thing that happened to this game

703
00:35:04,199 --> 00:35:06,679
in a lot of ways. Sad to say, but because

704
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,280
everybody started working from home and realize I can do

705
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,719
my workload in four hours and go play golfs happening

706
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,119
instead of having to be at the office.

707
00:35:15,199 --> 00:35:17,679
Speaker 3: Well it's something I can do with my family outside

708
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:19,519
when we're allowed to be outside.

709
00:35:20,119 --> 00:35:23,679
Speaker 1: Now, there was that side of that is and it's

710
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:25,800
a challenge that we have at our club and everywhere else,

711
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,039
is it we put everybody in their own cart. Now

712
00:35:29,079 --> 00:35:31,440
we can't get them off of the single rider carts.

713
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,760
It's hard to get people back. They pair up and

714
00:35:34,199 --> 00:35:36,440
let's get the cart traffic off the golf course in

715
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,719
our particular club, not every club, but it's a it's

716
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,440
a it's a club wide problem because the way we

717
00:35:42,519 --> 00:35:46,119
kept everybody on the golf course, everybody took their own cart. Yeah, well,

718
00:35:46,159 --> 00:35:48,079
now they got used to riding in their own carts.

719
00:35:48,079 --> 00:35:49,800
And now I got a fivesome out there with five

720
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:51,159
carts beating on my golf course.

721
00:35:52,079 --> 00:35:52,519
Speaker 2: Yeah.

722
00:35:52,599 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 3: I played on a single writer cart recently and I

723
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,320
loved it. I thought, Wow, what a great way to

724
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,400
speed up the pace of play when you have a foursome,

725
00:36:00,039 --> 00:36:02,800
because now everyone's just sure. You can drive next to

726
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,719
each other when you're going down the fairway. But now

727
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,119
you all go to your own ball. You don't do

728
00:36:08,199 --> 00:36:11,199
migratory golf for you. Two people or four people go

729
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:12,960
to one ball, then they go to the next ball,

730
00:36:13,039 --> 00:36:14,440
then they go to the next That's.

731
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 1: Just I don't know why they do that. I mean

732
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,960
the way we I mean to me. You know, you're

733
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,280
you know, you get to your buddy's ball, and yours

734
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,320
is across the fairway twenty five yards up. You know

735
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,480
about where it is, grab your range finder, a couple

736
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,239
of clubs, go over there and start getting ready.

737
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:29,639
Speaker 2: Exactly.

738
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,679
Speaker 1: I think ready golf is ready golf is what speeds

739
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,760
up golf. And people just don't play ready golf. And

740
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,719
you know you'll see, like, say, you drive up, this

741
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,639
guy gets out of the cart, figures his shot. His

742
00:36:41,639 --> 00:36:45,000
buddy's sitting in the cart, glittling his thumb and then

743
00:36:45,159 --> 00:36:47,519
he hits the shot and fills his divot, puts his

744
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:49,840
club back in the bag, and then they drive ten

745
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:51,880
yards over to his body goes, oh, let me think

746
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,159
about my shot. Now. It's like you could have been

747
00:36:54,199 --> 00:36:56,519
doing that while your buddy was hitting, and absolutely, I

748
00:36:56,519 --> 00:37:00,159
mean ready golf. And and that's another reason why I

749
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,320
just kind of don't enjoy watching PGA Tour golf. It's

750
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,000
kind of like watching paint dry. I mean it's like, really,

751
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,320
you're playing twosomes with a caddy and you're going to

752
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,239
take five hours to play around the golf. Give you

753
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,559
have break. We played five somes and you know, and

754
00:37:14,599 --> 00:37:16,519
we play in three and a half. So I mean

755
00:37:16,639 --> 00:37:19,159
for twenty four point thirty for a profession around the

756
00:37:19,159 --> 00:37:20,840
golf ought to be plenty at the time to go

757
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,840
do it, you know. And I think that the you know,

758
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,159
the it's a it's it's a challenge for the PGA Tour.

759
00:37:27,199 --> 00:37:29,400
I mean, you know, do you want to penalize guy's

760
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,559
strokes or do you want to just you know, say hey,

761
00:37:31,559 --> 00:37:33,840
you're you know, you guys got the first tea time

762
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,559
today and at four hours and fifteen minutes, you're leaving

763
00:37:36,599 --> 00:37:38,440
the golf course and if you're on number seventeen, you

764
00:37:38,519 --> 00:37:40,840
just got a DQ for today because you didn't finish.

765
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:41,679
Speaker 2: Wow.

766
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: No, you know you have for fifteen minutes to play

767
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:45,800
this round the golf, so you better get after it,

768
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,079
you know. Wow. I mean they're not serious about it,

769
00:37:49,119 --> 00:37:51,360
and it's a you know, the guys, we're playing for

770
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,280
a lot of money, blah blah blah. It's like, you know, yeah,

771
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,719
but you know, I mean, you're going to make all

772
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,800
the excuses you want. I'm not going on that soapbux.

773
00:37:58,800 --> 00:37:59,760
I'll get off of that print.

774
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,159
Speaker 3: Well, my soapbox, I'm going to climb back on for

775
00:38:03,199 --> 00:38:07,800
a second, because I think we're talking about growing the game.

776
00:38:08,039 --> 00:38:14,320
I think simulator golf has something there that could you know,

777
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,480
first of all, you can play around in an hour

778
00:38:17,519 --> 00:38:21,360
and a half full round. You can you know, socialize,

779
00:38:21,519 --> 00:38:23,119
you don't have to do all the walk. That's what

780
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,719
I think about TGL and something like Tiger playing on TGL.

781
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,840
He can't walk four rounds of golf right now, there's

782
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,960
no possible he can't even play. But I mean, you know,

783
00:38:33,039 --> 00:38:35,320
four rounds of golf walking. We've seen Tiger over the

784
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:36,960
last couple of years can't do it. But in a

785
00:38:37,039 --> 00:38:39,960
situation where in a controlled environment where you're hitting into

786
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,960
a net and then you're chipping and putting onto a green,

787
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:49,400
I think that people on a social basis might really

788
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,239
get I think this simulator golf thing has some legs.

789
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,039
And I think that if people start, you know, opening

790
00:38:56,079 --> 00:39:01,119
up venues that are simulator golf, bowling alley cont type

791
00:39:01,159 --> 00:39:03,400
of thing, You're going to attract a lot of people.

792
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,880
I think that has the potential of growing the game.

793
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,159
And that's part of what I love about TGL is

794
00:39:08,199 --> 00:39:14,880
it brings it a whole different generation and participant.

795
00:39:13,199 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 1: And it may you know, and you know the top

796
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,679
golf and all that. Is it bringing new golfers to

797
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:23,480
the game. Maybe So if I if golf went to

798
00:39:23,519 --> 00:39:26,199
a point where I couldn't see the ball flight, I

799
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,639
would not play. To me, the biggest thrill is feeling

800
00:39:29,679 --> 00:39:34,159
impact and seeing that ball do exactly what you designed

801
00:39:34,159 --> 00:39:37,559
it to do. Man over matter that I made that

802
00:39:37,639 --> 00:39:41,480
little one point six ain't out sphere do exactly what

803
00:39:41,559 --> 00:39:45,599
I wanted to and particularly like we played yesterday Tuesday

804
00:39:46,199 --> 00:39:48,440
in a twenty five to thirty mile an hour win,

805
00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:51,679
I mean It's like, Wow, making the golf ball do

806
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,320
what you wanted to with that wind, whether it's into

807
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,760
the wind or down win across wind. To me, that

808
00:39:57,960 --> 00:39:59,880
was one of most fun rounds of golf. I ended

809
00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:01,800
up like seventy seven, but it was one of the

810
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,800
most fun rounds of golf because it wasn't about it's

811
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,840
a one club win or two win. It's like, hey,

812
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:08,760
I got it twenty five miles an hour, blowing right

813
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,559
to left, right at that pond that's bulkheaded on the

814
00:40:11,639 --> 00:40:13,920
left of green and right of the green is not

815
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,039
going to be an easy chip. This is going to

816
00:40:16,119 --> 00:40:19,960
really require some ball control. And to me, that's what

817
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,760
I love. I love shot making and you know, making

818
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,039
the golf ball do what I wanted it to do.

819
00:40:25,559 --> 00:40:27,280
You know, Ben Hogan once said he only hit two

820
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:31,679
or three perfect shots around and that multiple times what

821
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:33,639
you wanted it to do. And I mean, to me,

822
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,400
I'll go through that that round of golf and it's

823
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:39,920
the two or three. And I remember going to a

824
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,440
golf Digest research presentation years ago at the PGA Show

825
00:40:44,199 --> 00:40:47,760
and they asked golfers what was their number one goal?

826
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,360
And I think this is universal. I want to hit

827
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,960
better golf shots more often. And that's what the game is,

828
00:40:55,599 --> 00:40:58,400
better golf shots more often. And and here's an interesting thing.

829
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,199
When you have two reason close handicap guys, you know

830
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,400
there it's a matter who's going to get two or

831
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,159
three shots. Instead of giving them shots, you give them

832
00:41:07,199 --> 00:41:09,559
to give them that many Mulligan use them. Anywhere you

833
00:41:09,559 --> 00:41:11,599
went on the golf course two or three times, you're

834
00:41:11,639 --> 00:41:14,400
going to get a do over and that's your handicap.

835
00:41:15,119 --> 00:41:18,559
Speaker 2: So ooh, there is one for the rules.

836
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,639
Speaker 1: It really works out very interesting. Seven can play a

837
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,239
three with four doovers and it's a really good match.

838
00:41:26,559 --> 00:41:27,679
Speaker 2: Interesting. Interesting.

839
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 3: You said a few minutes ago that you're you've always

840
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,199
been blessed with a low handicap.

841
00:41:32,519 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 2: Is that really a blessing or is that pressure?

842
00:41:34,639 --> 00:41:37,320
Speaker 3: Because whenever I get down and then I'm like, oh no,

843
00:41:37,519 --> 00:41:38,519
can I really play this?

844
00:41:38,679 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's like I don't to me and

845
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:46,400
I say a blessing meaning I experienced the golf of

846
00:41:46,519 --> 00:41:49,480
the game of golf at a very different level than

847
00:41:49,519 --> 00:41:52,960
the twelve or fifteen or twenty handicapper, no question, because

848
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,599
I get to I get to challenge myself with making

849
00:41:55,639 --> 00:41:57,880
that golf ball do exactly what I wanted it to do,

850
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,800
whether it's holding that dry twenty feet lower into the wind,

851
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,039
or whether it's hitting that drive and putting a little

852
00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:06,239
cut on it where I wanted, or whether it's peeling

853
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,159
you know, five yards off of that three would lay

854
00:42:09,199 --> 00:42:10,760
up so it doesn't get to the water, but it

855
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,519
gets closer, you know, making that iron, do this or that.

856
00:42:13,639 --> 00:42:15,960
And when I say it's a blessing, I get to

857
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:20,679
appreciate the game on a much different level than somebody's

858
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,920
like just hoping to break ninety, you know, and and

859
00:42:25,039 --> 00:42:27,480
I coined the term years ago. Golf is not a

860
00:42:27,519 --> 00:42:31,840
game of numerical satisfaction. You know, to your point about

861
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,639
your handicap, if you shoot to your handicap today, you

862
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,880
played your best golf. You should not have many places

863
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,199
that you can say, oh yeah. But you know, however,

864
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,960
the better you shoot, the more those two or three

865
00:42:46,039 --> 00:42:49,719
throwaways stand out, because you're going, you know, hey, I'm

866
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,159
a I'm a ten handicap. I st seventy seven day,

867
00:42:52,199 --> 00:42:54,239
but damn I had that three pot on such and such,

868
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,840
or I chunked that one chip shot. But you hit

869
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:58,960
a lot of really good shots to hit that to

870
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,119
shoot that seventy seven. But there's nobody here. I mean,

871
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,840
justin Thomas shoots sixty two the other day in Boge's eighteen,

872
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,400
told he'd love to have that ironsht over. So the

873
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:11,800
shoot there's always a butt.

874
00:43:11,639 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, there's I call it a yeahb Yeah.

875
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:17,280
Speaker 1: There's always a yell button.

876
00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:21,760
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, but yeah, but right, every single golfer. Yeah

877
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,360
but I shot a sixty two. Yeah, but I hit

878
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:25,840
run out of bounds.

879
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 1: On a world nothing stands out. It was just a

880
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,679
ragged day, you know. But the key to your handicap

881
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,199
is you know, when you look at those best eight

882
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,559
out of your last twenty or whatever, how what was

883
00:43:37,599 --> 00:43:40,880
the range from your best to your worst? You know,

884
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,639
the best golf probably I ever played in my life

885
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,320
was years ago. I played to a pretty handicap, and

886
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,360
of course that was pretty tough. But in the in

887
00:43:49,679 --> 00:43:53,119
the course of the year, my scores were seventy to

888
00:43:53,199 --> 00:43:56,440
seventy eight for the entire year, that was my range.

889
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,239
I never shot worse than seventy eight, never saw better

890
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,079
than seventy. I mean to me, that was probably the

891
00:44:02,079 --> 00:44:04,960
most consistent golf for a year that I ever had.

892
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,159
You know, how old were you when you did that

893
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,920
mid thirties? Not mad, but you know, I grew.

894
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:14,679
Speaker 3: Up and look at you forty years later, you're still

895
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:18,199
remembering it like that, like that, forty years later and

896
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,320
you're still holding it up as the gold standard for

897
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:20,719
your goal.

898
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:22,559
Speaker 1: I have. I have golf shots that I've hit in

899
00:44:22,599 --> 00:44:24,800
my life thirty forty fifty years ago, and I still

900
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:29,119
remember vividly, of course, because that shot was just a

901
00:44:29,159 --> 00:44:31,440
piece of perfection. You know, not a tour player in

902
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,679
the world would have wanted it any better. It was.

903
00:44:35,119 --> 00:44:37,159
Speaker 2: It was. It made you an artist at that moment.

904
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean for that moment. It goes back to

905
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,320
the you know, the seven days in Utopia and you know,

906
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,960
I mean, it's about see it feel at trusted. But

907
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:46,679
you've got to paint that golf shot. And I think

908
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,599
that's where most and I know in my own golf

909
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,400
ninety percent of the time, when I hit a bad shot,

910
00:44:53,559 --> 00:44:56,079
it's totally not a surprise. It's not like where'd that

911
00:44:56,119 --> 00:44:58,800
come from. It's like I was not even remotely prepared

912
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,519
to execute a shot. I didn't have a picture of

913
00:45:01,559 --> 00:45:04,159
it in my mind, didn't pay attention to my setup.

914
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,480
My alignment was off the standing. My last wing thought was, hey,

915
00:45:07,519 --> 00:45:10,199
you got the ball too far forward. Whip into your swing.

916
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,639
You know. It's like this game is a game of

917
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,239
pieces of an inch, you know. The little differences make

918
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,039
you know, I mean, they make big differences in where

919
00:45:19,079 --> 00:45:19,679
the ball goes.

920
00:45:26,119 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 3: Terry, I can never let you leave without asking you

921
00:45:29,079 --> 00:45:34,360
about wedges and wedge play. And I think like the

922
00:45:34,559 --> 00:45:41,440
biggest question that everyone would always have about the wedges

923
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:48,360
they carry is how many wedges should the recreational twelve

924
00:45:48,559 --> 00:45:54,679
fifteen eighteen range handicapped player? How many wedges should they carry?

925
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 1: You know, I've been asked that question for thirty or

926
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,239
forty years that I've been in business. And I think

927
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:07,000
the numbers changes because the iron manufacturers continue to crank

928
00:46:07,039 --> 00:46:10,440
the lofts down on irons. And so what makes a

929
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,920
wedge a wedge? Is it the number or the letter

930
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:15,760
on the bottom of the golf club. Does that then

931
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,599
determine it's a wedge? Is it the amount of loft

932
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,760
that the golf club has on it? Is that what

933
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,280
makes it a wedge, you know? And I think that's

934
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,480
where the thing begins. I think that we'll use the

935
00:46:26,559 --> 00:46:30,760
term wedges for your club's over forty five degrees a

936
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,480
loft in your back, But a forty five degree club

937
00:46:33,519 --> 00:46:36,360
that has a pee on it, it's not really a wedge.

938
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,559
You can't hit a soft pitch shot with loft and

939
00:46:39,679 --> 00:46:42,519
spin with a forty five degree golf club. So I

940
00:46:42,559 --> 00:46:45,800
believe wedges. I mean we make at Edison, we make

941
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:49,039
wedges down to forty five degrees to replace the pea club,

942
00:46:49,079 --> 00:46:52,679
as I call it. But wedge play really begins at

943
00:46:52,679 --> 00:46:55,320
around forty eight to fifty degrees. That's where a club,

944
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,000
to me, really becomes a wedge where I can put

945
00:46:58,039 --> 00:47:00,239
some loft on the ball, some spin on the ball well.

946
00:47:00,639 --> 00:47:04,000
And I think average person needs two to three of

947
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,599
those in their bag, you know, fifty to fifty five,

948
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,960
sixty of you know, forty seven, fifty one, fifty seven,

949
00:47:10,119 --> 00:47:13,760
you know whatever you're golf gapping. I think that the

950
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,679
idea of a full wedge is not the same as

951
00:47:16,679 --> 00:47:19,679
a full seven are. A full swing pitching wedge is

952
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:21,960
about eighty percent of the speed of a full swing

953
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:25,400
seven are because the faster you try to or the

954
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,760
harder you try to hit wedges, they tend to go

955
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,840
higher and shorter. They don't go further, and you lose

956
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,960
control and you lose spin control. So I think a

957
00:47:34,039 --> 00:47:39,280
controlled wedge, for even for tour players, a controlled wedge

958
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,719
swing is going to give you the most consistent results,

959
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:44,960
the biggest So so to your answer your question, I

960
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,679
think you know four to five degree gapping after your

961
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,559
nine iron is going to give you optimum swing to

962
00:47:51,639 --> 00:47:55,239
swing club to club precision for dissecting a golf course. So,

963
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:58,840
if you have a five iron in your hand, thirty

964
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:02,159
feet longer, short's pretty good five ron shot. But if

965
00:48:02,159 --> 00:48:03,960
you have a gap wedge in your hand, thirty feet

966
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,039
longer shots not very good. So I think you need

967
00:48:07,079 --> 00:48:09,960
to have where if I put what I consider a

968
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,039
full swing nine iron, and then I pull up my

969
00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:16,199
pitch wedge, my peak club, and that full swing should

970
00:48:16,199 --> 00:48:20,599
give me something under fifteen yards difference ten to twelve yards,

971
00:48:20,599 --> 00:48:22,679
and then ten to twelve to my gap wedge, ten

972
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,119
to twelve to my my I call it the midwage

973
00:48:25,119 --> 00:48:28,159
because a good wedge, a gap wedge, a sand wedge,

974
00:48:28,159 --> 00:48:30,239
the love weogs are all good sand clubs if they're

975
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,440
designed right. It's what I've always strived for. Longer bunker shot,

976
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,920
I'm going to hit the lower lofted wedge, a shorter

977
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,519
bunker shot, I'm gonna hit the higher lofted wedge. But

978
00:48:38,679 --> 00:48:41,000
they all need to be good bunker clubs. They all

979
00:48:41,039 --> 00:48:42,760
need to be good clubs off the tight lines. They

980
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,960
all need to be good clubs out of the Rough's

981
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,480
what led me to create the soul design that I

982
00:48:47,519 --> 00:48:51,119
did thirty years ago. But I think the number one

983
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,960
and I know you want to wrap this up. The

984
00:48:54,039 --> 00:48:56,800
number one thing that I see and I talked about

985
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,440
that thirty yard pitch shot while ago, one hundred foot

986
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:03,960
pitch shot. When I see recreational golfers that are stuck

987
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,280
at eight nine or ten twelve handicap and higher, they're

988
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,159
trying to hit that ball up in the air and

989
00:49:10,199 --> 00:49:12,559
the ball sitting on planet Earth. You cannot hit up

990
00:49:12,559 --> 00:49:14,280
on a golf ball. You can only hit down on

991
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,719
a golf ball because there's a planet right under it.

992
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,079
And you can hit up on a driver because it's

993
00:49:20,079 --> 00:49:21,760
sitting up on a two inch t. But you can't

994
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,280
hit up on an iron shot. You can't hit up

995
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:28,599
on a wedge shot. And I tell people that are struggling,

996
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,360
particularly in the beginning world, if you want to improve

997
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:36,280
your wedge game, that word wedge is the key to

998
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:40,079
short game scoring. Got a golf ball and it's sitting

999
00:49:40,159 --> 00:49:42,679
on the planet Earth. You got a club that's got

1000
00:49:42,679 --> 00:49:44,719
a lot of loft and it's got a bounce angle.

1001
00:49:45,159 --> 00:49:47,559
You want to wedge that club between the Earth and

1002
00:49:47,599 --> 00:49:50,239
the ball, and the loft will make the ball go

1003
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,760
up and the bounce will make the club not dig.

1004
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:55,119
So if you think about I got a ball and

1005
00:49:55,159 --> 00:49:57,280
I got a planet Earth, I want to wedge that

1006
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:01,480
club under that golf ball and then the ball will

1007
00:50:01,519 --> 00:50:03,320
go up in the air with spin. If you do that,

1008
00:50:03,679 --> 00:50:05,199
you don't have to dig a big divid you don't

1009
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,079
have to hit down on the ball. You have to

1010
00:50:07,079 --> 00:50:10,320
think about any of that, just to wedge the club

1011
00:50:10,679 --> 00:50:13,239
between the ball and the earth. And I mean a

1012
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:16,480
wedge is designed to separate two things. Right, you want

1013
00:50:16,519 --> 00:50:19,199
to separate that ball from the Earth, then drive a

1014
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:23,800
wedge between them. Kind of an interesting angle on it.

1015
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:25,679
Speaker 2: No, I love that. I love that.

1016
00:50:26,079 --> 00:50:28,199
Speaker 3: I learned a lot just in this moment from that.

1017
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:30,719
What do you mean a good bunker club? What does

1018
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:32,119
a good bunker club.

1019
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:36,199
Speaker 1: Bends on the bunkers? You know? I mean like our

1020
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:40,400
golf course and we have a challenge with our bunkers.

1021
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:42,000
We have a very high water table, so we have

1022
00:50:42,039 --> 00:50:45,079
bunkers that the water actually migrates up into them. So

1023
00:50:45,199 --> 00:50:47,679
we have like our number seven is a part three.

1024
00:50:48,039 --> 00:50:50,679
If you pull it, the left bunkers below the level

1025
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:52,599
of the green, this wet pack sand all the time,

1026
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,119
wet pack. But the bunker on the right is above

1027
00:50:56,119 --> 00:50:58,079
the level of the green and it's a little dryer,

1028
00:50:58,159 --> 00:51:00,440
fluffy your sand. So what kind of ounce do on

1029
00:51:00,519 --> 00:51:03,000
need on my sandwich? Well depends on which side of

1030
00:51:03,039 --> 00:51:06,199
the green. I hit it on number seven, right. So

1031
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:08,800
I think what makes a good bunker glove? I see

1032
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:12,719
this advent of these big, big, super wide soul wedges

1033
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:16,079
that are specialized bunker clubs, but they don't work off

1034
00:51:16,079 --> 00:51:18,440
of tight lines, they don't work off that wet back sand.

1035
00:51:20,079 --> 00:51:22,519
And again I think that the same thing goes for

1036
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,559
good bunker play. If you think about just wedging that club,

1037
00:51:26,159 --> 00:51:28,199
I think people get all wrapped up about hit two

1038
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:30,159
inches behind the ball, one inch behind the ball, all

1039
00:51:30,199 --> 00:51:33,000
that nobody can aim the club that accurately. That's a

1040
00:51:33,079 --> 00:51:36,679
mid to high handicapper. You know, just think about you know,

1041
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:38,880
wedging that ball out, you know, letting the club go

1042
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:41,280
in and you have to lay the face open on

1043
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:43,800
a wedge in the bunker, and if it's wet sandy,

1044
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:45,840
laid open just a little bit, and if it strays handy,

1045
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:48,920
laid open a lot. But you have to match the

1046
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,519
soul design to the kind of sand that you have.

1047
00:51:52,639 --> 00:51:55,599
And if you play a course with tight fairways and

1048
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,679
very soft bunkers, you probably need one of those white

1049
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,079
soul sand wedges. And if you're balling in the hand,

1050
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:03,920
leave it in the bag because it will not work

1051
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:04,880
off the tight lines.

1052
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:09,320
Speaker 2: So what makes Edison wedges unique.

1053
00:52:10,159 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 1: It's the way we position the mass on the golf

1054
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:16,000
club where if you look at conventional wedges, the top

1055
00:52:16,039 --> 00:52:18,639
two thirds of the club is very thin, and we

1056
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:20,440
hit the ball up in the middle to the higher

1057
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,239
part of that face. Because we're recreational golfers, we don't

1058
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:25,760
hit it down on the third groove like tour players.

1059
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,840
So what makes Edison wedges what they are is tour

1060
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,840
design wedges are designed for tour players who hit it

1061
00:52:33,079 --> 00:52:35,639
on the third groove almost all the time. That club

1062
00:52:35,679 --> 00:52:39,360
is to optimize for them their game, their skill set,

1063
00:52:39,519 --> 00:52:41,840
and they hit it on the third group. The rest

1064
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,039
of us we make contact around the fifth or sixth

1065
00:52:44,039 --> 00:52:46,119
groove because we play fluffy or fairways, we don't have

1066
00:52:46,199 --> 00:52:50,400
their skills. Very simply, I just optimized Edison wedges around

1067
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:52,159
the sixth groove instead of the third group. Because I

1068
00:52:52,199 --> 00:52:54,679
don't care about tour players. They got everybody else taking

1069
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:58,360
care of them. And because we did that, when you

1070
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:00,840
do hit it down around the third groove, the Edison

1071
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:02,880
wedges spin the credit out of the ball because the

1072
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,800
CG is so much higher, and tour players do not

1073
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:07,960
want more spin on their wedges. They can't keep the

1074
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:10,920
ball on the green half the time anyway because they

1075
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,880
spin it so much with their clubhead speed. So it's

1076
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:18,400
really I designed wedges to be the great compliment to

1077
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,320
your cavity back irons, to help you hit the right

1078
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:26,159
trajectory with the right spin. And how the business it's good,

1079
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:27,920
you know in the wedge category, I mean, you're a

1080
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,880
small challenger brand, and you know it's you know, people

1081
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,079
think they have to play, you know, the ball that

1082
00:53:34,119 --> 00:53:36,320
the tour got plays and the wedge the tour got plays,

1083
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:38,239
but they're not playing the iron the tour guy plays.

1084
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:42,360
So the biggest challenge for Edison Golf is play this

1085
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,639
golf club. Give it a try, you're going to see

1086
00:53:44,639 --> 00:53:47,039
a difference, and it's just a matter of having enough

1087
00:53:47,079 --> 00:53:51,360
marketing budget and reaching enough set of eyeballs and telling

1088
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,920
a story that makes sense to people. Wouldn't you like

1089
00:53:54,039 --> 00:53:56,519
your gap wedge and your sand wedge to be as

1090
00:53:56,519 --> 00:53:58,920
forgiving as your seven iron. Your seven iron lets you

1091
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,519
get away with stuff your wedge doesn't. Why do we

1092
00:54:02,599 --> 00:54:05,760
tolerate that? If you gave me a driver that was big,

1093
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:07,519
but it had a sweet spot the size of a

1094
00:54:07,559 --> 00:54:09,719
pencil eraser, I'd give it right back to you. Right.

1095
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:11,480
I want to be able to hit that driver all

1096
00:54:11,519 --> 00:54:12,840
over the face. I want to be able to hit

1097
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,119
that seven are pretty much all over the face. Why

1098
00:54:15,119 --> 00:54:16,639
don't you get a wedge that I can pretty much

1099
00:54:16,679 --> 00:54:18,519
hit all over the face. That's what drives me and

1100
00:54:18,599 --> 00:54:20,679
drives Edison. I'm going to give you a wedge it

1101
00:54:20,679 --> 00:54:22,400
can hit pretty much all over the face and get

1102
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,719
about the same results.

1103
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,760
Speaker 3: Something that seems so obvious, and it's a shame that

1104
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:31,639
it is so obvious, is that for a small manufacturer

1105
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:37,079
like yourself at Edison Wedges, it's getting the exposure on

1106
00:54:37,119 --> 00:54:40,599
the TV people, you know, the high level players playing

1107
00:54:40,599 --> 00:54:44,239
a club like that, we've witnessed. You know, we talked

1108
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:46,920
before we started recording. We were talking about lab Golf

1109
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,039
and their success story, and a lot of it has

1110
00:54:50,079 --> 00:54:52,519
to do with the fact that people are seeing this club,

1111
00:54:53,639 --> 00:54:57,360
which is unique in its design, to say the least,

1112
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:01,679
they're seeing it on the tour and their sales are exploding,

1113
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,639
and we don't see that happening a lot. How does

1114
00:55:04,679 --> 00:55:09,679
a company of your size survive with a great product

1115
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:14,280
that's not getting the exposure that most golf manufacturers need.

1116
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:18,679
Speaker 1: Well, you know, if you look on TV, the cameras

1117
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:21,480
at the cameras are at the green and they can

1118
00:55:21,519 --> 00:55:25,440
see a putter, and you and I have exactly the

1119
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:28,920
same ability of any tour player to take a club

1120
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,360
back four inches and get it back square to the ball.

1121
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:34,000
I mean, you know, take it back eight inches, get

1122
00:55:34,039 --> 00:55:35,639
square to the ball. We do not have the ability

1123
00:55:35,639 --> 00:55:38,000
to wrap the club around behind our head and get

1124
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,320
it back to the ball with the consistency they did.

1125
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,199
And the further you get from the hole, the more

1126
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:46,519
physical talent takes over. I mean, one of the best

1127
00:55:46,519 --> 00:55:49,400
putters I've ever seen in amateur golf is a guy

1128
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:53,119
that only played but he only had one arm, but

1129
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:55,599
he was a deadly putter because they only had to

1130
00:55:55,599 --> 00:55:57,480
move the club this far. Now, could he drive it

1131
00:55:57,519 --> 00:56:00,360
to eighty? No, he couldn't drive it to eighty, you know.

1132
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:02,559
And he couldn't hit all the different shots. But on

1133
00:56:02,599 --> 00:56:04,840
the greens he could take it back and through and

1134
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,280
roll the ball as good as anybody you'd ever seen,

1135
00:56:08,679 --> 00:56:11,480
you know, And so a putter. And you know, Hogan

1136
00:56:11,599 --> 00:56:14,039
said that putting and golf have nothing to do with

1137
00:56:14,079 --> 00:56:18,360
each other. They're two entirely different sets of physical actions,

1138
00:56:18,599 --> 00:56:21,119
you know. I mean it's like, hey, Lucas Glover doesn't

1139
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:23,440
use a sweeper off the tea, does he know? He

1140
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,360
plays a conventional driver in conventional irons, but he goes

1141
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:30,360
to something radically different for the process of rolling the

1142
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:35,199
ball across a green with consistency, that's a different challenge altogether.

1143
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:37,599
It's the only shot in golf you do not want

1144
00:56:37,639 --> 00:56:43,199
to leave the ground right, And it's the only shot

1145
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:45,920
in golf that a great one can go five feet.

1146
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:49,119
No great drive ever went five feet, No great seven

1147
00:56:49,159 --> 00:56:51,079
iron shot ever went five feet. But there's a lot

1148
00:56:51,079 --> 00:56:53,280
of great putts that only went five feet right. So

1149
00:56:53,639 --> 00:56:57,159
it's a different game. Entirely than striking a golf ball.

1150
00:56:57,519 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 2: So true, Edison Wedges dot com.

1151
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, please, I'm more than happy to let you pitch

1152
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:11,239
it to your lit to the listeners here, get them

1153
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:12,960
to go to Edison Wedges dot com.

1154
00:57:13,039 --> 00:57:14,639
Speaker 2: This is your soapbox. Go for it.

1155
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: Well, you know, we're doing something very different in golf,

1156
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:20,639
and you spent if you're a golfer, you spent a

1157
00:57:20,719 --> 00:57:22,840
lot of time and energy finding the right irons that

1158
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:26,320
are forgiving the right driver that's that's long, and forgiving

1159
00:57:26,719 --> 00:57:29,079
the right putter helps you make more puts. And you're

1160
00:57:29,239 --> 00:57:32,119
you're suffering with these tour design wedges. You're not playing

1161
00:57:32,159 --> 00:57:35,159
tour blade irons. You're not playing xCE one hundred chefs.

1162
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:38,119
You don't have the skill set that the tour player does.

1163
00:57:38,559 --> 00:57:42,719
And that tour design wedge was specifically designed for the

1164
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:45,639
skill set of a tour player. I mean, all the

1165
00:57:45,639 --> 00:57:48,119
big wedge companies, they talk about their tour staff over

1166
00:57:48,159 --> 00:57:50,000
and over and over, and how you know it's the

1167
00:57:50,079 --> 00:57:52,960
number one wedge. Well, you know, I came up with

1168
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:57,079
the thing a while back that mathematically, golf is twenty

1169
00:57:57,119 --> 00:58:01,079
times harder than brain surgery mathematical because there are five

1170
00:58:01,119 --> 00:58:03,559
thousand brain surgeons in the United States that make over

1171
00:58:03,599 --> 00:58:05,800
four hundred thousand dollars a year, and there were about

1172
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:08,199
two hundred and fifty professional golfers that made up for

1173
00:58:08,199 --> 00:58:10,559
four hundred thousand dollars on the golf course last year.

1174
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:14,039
So therefore, mathematically, brain surgery is obviously twenty nine is

1175
00:58:14,039 --> 00:58:18,880
easier than golf. So the fact is, you know you

1176
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:21,599
don't cut your steak with a brain surgeon scalpel, and

1177
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:24,559
you know you're not going to optimize your green side

1178
00:58:24,599 --> 00:58:27,519
scoring and your wedge play with a tour player scalpel.

1179
00:58:27,719 --> 00:58:29,679
I mean, these are scalpels for these guys. They are

1180
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,280
surgical instruments around the greens. We watch them every week.

1181
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:36,599
These guys are magical. And I told the guy one time, said, well,

1182
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:38,480
you know, how do I know when I'm good enough

1183
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:41,639
to play a tour design wedge? That's easy when you

1184
00:58:41,679 --> 00:58:44,400
would take Phil Mickelson on one hundred dollars a shot

1185
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:46,119
and in an up and down contest, when you have

1186
00:58:46,199 --> 00:58:47,960
that level of skilled and play as wedges.

1187
00:58:49,639 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 2: Wow.

1188
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 3: And to follow the wedge guy at golf wrx dot.

1189
00:58:55,079 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 2: Com, you're right.

1190
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,519
Speaker 1: Every week I write every week at golf Wx cover

1191
00:58:58,559 --> 00:59:01,440
all kinds of topics, and we had a fun one

1192
00:59:01,519 --> 00:59:03,719
I wrote a few weeks ago, the three Sure Far

1193
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:05,920
Ways to Never Get Better at Golf, and I have

1194
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:08,400
a lot of fun writing it and sharing different perspectives

1195
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:11,239
on the game. And you know, and again, if you're

1196
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,400
a four handicap or fourteen or twenty four, you play

1197
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:17,039
a different game, but you can still get the most

1198
00:59:17,079 --> 00:59:19,840
out of it by being really good inside wedge range.

1199
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:23,039
Speaker 2: Well, Terry's.

1200
00:59:23,719 --> 00:59:26,039
Speaker 3: This is exactly why I wanted to have you in

1201
00:59:26,119 --> 00:59:29,880
the lead up to episode one thousand, to showcase some

1202
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:32,440
of the great guests that we've had on the show,

1203
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:36,639
because it's not only entertaining every time you're on, but

1204
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,920
it's a hell of an education and I really appreciate

1205
00:59:40,039 --> 00:59:42,760
your time, your energy, and your passion.

1206
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 1: Well, it's always fun, Fred, and so I hope i'm

1207
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:47,920
on before episode two thousand