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Harold Scheckter Amazon 48 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:11.560 Charts best selling author of Hell's Princess Unearthed, a nearly 49 00:03:11.639 --> 00:03:15.400 forgotten true crime of obsession and revenge and one of 50 00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:21.319 the first and worst mass murders in American history. In 51 00:03:21.439 --> 00:03:25.199 nineteen twenty seven, while the majority of the township of Bath, Michigan, 52 00:03:25.879 --> 00:03:29.319 was celebrating a new primary school, one of the most 53 00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:34.599 modern in the Midwest, Andrew P. Kehoe had other plans. 54 00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:40.000 The local farmer and school board treasurer, was educated, respected, 55 00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:44.919 and an accommodating neighbor and friend, but behind his ordinary 56 00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:52.039 demeanor was a narcissistic sadist seething with rage, resentment, and paranoia. 57 00:03:52.840 --> 00:03:56.800 On May eighteenth, he detonated a set of rigged explosives 58 00:03:56.840 --> 00:04:00.599 with the sole purpose of destroying the school and everyone 59 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:05.080 in it. Thirty eight children and six adults were murdered 60 00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:11.599 that morning, culminating in the deadliest school massacre in US history. 61 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:18.759 Maniac is Harold Scheckter's gripping, definitive, exhaustively researched chronicle of 62 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:24.000 a town forced to comprehend unprecedented carnage and the triggering 63 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:28.439 of a human time bomb whose act of apocalyptic violence 64 00:04:28.720 --> 00:04:33.560 would foreshadow the terrors of the current age. The book 65 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:38.040 that we're featuring this evening is Maniac, the Bath School 66 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:42.360 Disaster and the Birth of the Modern mass Killer, with 67 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:46.639 my special guest, journalist and author and historian Harold Scheckter. 68 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:52.959 Harold is going to connect with us very very shortly. 69 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:56.519 I just want to let people know that this book 70 00:04:56.600 --> 00:05:01.759 was released. Maniac was released on March ninth, so we 71 00:05:01.800 --> 00:05:05.839 have the privilege of speaking to Harold Scheckter, the author. 72 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:12.720 And Harold Scheckter is an American true crime historian and 73 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:16.480 the author of some of the biggest true crime classics 74 00:05:16.519 --> 00:05:26.959 in history, including The Mad Sculptor, Hell's Princess, Man Eater, Derange, Depraved, Deviant, 75 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:31.279 and the list goes on. More than twenty five true 76 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:39.079 crime books among his his historic writing. He is scheduled 77 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:42.759 for many interviews today and so we are just waiting 78 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:46.279 for him to call in and connect, which should be 79 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:54.560 very very shortly. This book, Maniac is available obviously in Kindle, 80 00:05:54.879 --> 00:06:01.920 hardcover and audiobook. And Harold Scheckter is one of my 81 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:05.759 favorite guests because the books that he writes and the 82 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:11.560 type of writing is he is incomparable. Ladies and gentlemen, 83 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:16.759 welcome Harold Scheckter to the program. Thank you so much 84 00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:18.639 for this interview. Harold Scheckter. 85 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:21.920 Well, I appreciate being on again. 86 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:25.600 Thank you so much. It's always a great pleasure. 87 00:06:27.319 --> 00:06:28.079 As you write you. 88 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:32.920 Thank you, Thank you so much. As a history in 89 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:35.399 an American true crime, you spend a lot of time 90 00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:41.079 reading old newspapers in archives, on microfilm and online. What 91 00:06:41.319 --> 00:06:44.319 book of yours were you working on when you read 92 00:06:44.839 --> 00:06:49.480 on July seventh, nineteen oh two fort Wayne Daily News 93 00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:55.240 issue And what story was that and what special interest? 94 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:56.240 And why. 95 00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:03.920 You know I have to say that, you know, I've 96 00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:08.199 written so many books and researched so many books. You 97 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:10.199 have to give me a little more of a clue 98 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:13.000 because there are so many newspapers that I come across. 99 00:07:13.079 --> 00:07:17.920 As you were just indicating that I don't actually remember, 100 00:07:18.040 --> 00:07:19.920 tell me What's what happened on that date? 101 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:25.360 Well, you were working on the Hell's Princess about Belgunnis 102 00:07:25.519 --> 00:07:29.240 out and yeah, yeah, yes, And so you're working on 103 00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:33.800 that book, and then you read about this many stories, 104 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:37.079 but including the one about this bath school disaster. 105 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:42.720 Yes, but the bath school I guess the reason for 106 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:48.079 my confusion a bit is that the bath School disaster 107 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:55.439 actually occurred twenty five years after that date. It occurred 108 00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:58.199 in May nineteen twenty seven. 109 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:03.040 So yes, And. 110 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:08.600 It actually wasn't while I was researching my book on 111 00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:13.959 Bell Gunnis that I first encountered it. But before that, 112 00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:18.000 when I did a book called Psycho USA, Famous American 113 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:22.120 Killers You Never Heard Of, which was a book, as 114 00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:27.319 a subtitle suggests about crimes that were very, very sensational 115 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:34.399 in their own day, often received national, even international sometimes 116 00:08:34.440 --> 00:08:40.879 media coverage, but somehow lapsed into total obscurity. And it 117 00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:43.759 was while doing that book that I first encountered and 118 00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:48.399 wrote one of the entries on the Bath School disaster. 119 00:08:49.360 --> 00:08:56.320 Right now, in preparation for this in this introduction, you 120 00:08:56.399 --> 00:09:03.240 talk about several high profile duels before this time, and 121 00:09:03.320 --> 00:09:07.960 also you discussed the vain principle of personal honor in 122 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:13.480 some of this as well, and tell us what you 123 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:17.559 found in your research, and of course this will have 124 00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:19.360 some relation to this incredible story. 125 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:28.120 Well, one of the things that has did me for 126 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:34.360 a long time as a historian of American crime is 127 00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:41.600 the whole question of why certain crimes become these big sensations, 128 00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:47.240 and other equally and sometimes more heinous crimes, you know, 129 00:09:47.320 --> 00:09:51.080 don't really get that much attention or disappear almost instantly 130 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:57.000 from the news. You know. One thing that I have 131 00:09:57.240 --> 00:10:05.519 discovered in my researcher reading old newspapers from various times 132 00:10:05.559 --> 00:10:08.639 in different places, you know, is that you can open 133 00:10:08.720 --> 00:10:13.919 up any newspaper from any day, in any time, any year, 134 00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:17.840 in any place in this country and come across terrible 135 00:10:17.960 --> 00:10:23.200 murders that happened right But again, only a handful, you know, 136 00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:27.639 become these media sensations. So I believe what you are referring. 137 00:10:27.919 --> 00:10:31.279 So in my introduction to my new book Maniac, about 138 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:36.120 the Best school disaster, you know, I discussed that issue, 139 00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:40.600 and one of the one of the conclusions I came 140 00:10:40.679 --> 00:10:44.879 to is that there are certain crimes that speak to 141 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:50.279 issues of the moment, you know, that are matters of 142 00:10:50.360 --> 00:10:56.320 widespread concern or anxiety. So the dueling thing that you 143 00:10:56.360 --> 00:10:58.759 refer to. One of the examples I given the introduction 144 00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:02.279 to my book had to do with the subject of 145 00:11:02.279 --> 00:11:05.399 an earlier book of mine called Killer Cult, which was 146 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:10.559 a murder committed in the eighteen forties, I think eighteen 147 00:11:10.600 --> 00:11:13.919 forty or eighteen forty one by John Colt, who was 148 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:17.440 the brother of the famous inventor of the revolving pistol, 149 00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:23.320 and that became a big, big newspaper sensation of the time. 150 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:28.519 And one of the reasons for that, I speculated, was 151 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:32.039 that it touched on an issue that was a matter 152 00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:35.360 of concern and then which was the whole practice of 153 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:41.879 resolving despite dueling. So yeah, I gave that as an example. 154 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:47.919 I gave other examples the interest, the incredible obsessive attention 155 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:52.360 that was paid to the leopoldovoge Thriller killing of nineteen 156 00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:57.919 twenty four, you know, really touched a nerve with a 157 00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:04.080 public that was very, very concerned about the moral breakdown 158 00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:08.639 of what they call the flaming youth of the jazz age. 159 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:14.440 So yeah. So it was in that context that I 160 00:12:14.559 --> 00:12:16.039 mentioned the dueling stuff. 161 00:12:19.159 --> 00:12:23.080 Let's get to Clinton County, Michigan, in the area where 162 00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:29.879 this story originates and the key Hose and you write 163 00:12:29.879 --> 00:12:34.159 about that they came from Ireland during the Great Famine 164 00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:38.080 of eighteen forty seven and tell us where they settle. 165 00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:42.399 Then you talk about the father of Philip and tell 166 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:45.960 us about Phillips his father, and about the birth of 167 00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:52.360 Andrew and his status in that family after waiting for 168 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:56.320 a son for so many years. 169 00:12:56.720 --> 00:12:59.720 Well, you know, the key Hose fill up. They were 170 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:04.480 kind of epitomes of what people think of as you know, 171 00:13:04.519 --> 00:13:08.120 this kind of immigrant American dream type family you say, 172 00:13:08.200 --> 00:13:12.600 came over here during the Great Family is millions millions 173 00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:20.000 of their countrymen did. They ultimately emigrated to Michigan where 174 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:24.039 land was cheap and plentiful. Uh. He became a very 175 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:30.600 very successful farmer and a pillar of the community. We're 176 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:35.919 talking about an area of Wisconsin, not too far away 177 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:38.879 from what became the capital of the state, Lansing. 178 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:41.639 Yeah. 179 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:43.759 And you know, gave birth to a bunch of children, 180 00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:46.799 all of whom were girls. Andrew was the first son. 181 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:50.360 So you know, of course isn't true as is true 182 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:56.320 I think in many immigrant families. You know, he enjoyed 183 00:13:56.320 --> 00:14:01.519 a special status uh in the in the family, which 184 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:09.840 one of the things about writing about notorious killers from 185 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:16.080 the past. Is that until they become notorious killers. Uh, 186 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:21.279 you know, they totally obscure pretty much nonentities, I mean 187 00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:25.399 in the law as far as the larger world is concerned, right, 188 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:32.440 you know, So there's so there's very little information, uh 189 00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:36.840 that can be gleaned about their backgrounds. A lot of 190 00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:42.159 it is speculative. A lot of stories that begin to 191 00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:47.360 circulate about their pasts or are told after they've committed 192 00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:51.759 these horrible crimes, and you know, are colored by you know, 193 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:56.519 the knowledge of their capacity for evil or just invented. 194 00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:59.879 So we don't know a huge amount about Andrew's background. 195 00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:04.360 We do know that from an early age he was 196 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:11.080 very mechanically inclined and fascinated by electricity, you know, supposedly, 197 00:15:12.039 --> 00:15:18.440 and again this is probably at least somewhat apocryphal, maybe entirely, 198 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:24.720 you know, as a child, would invent these gadgets, you know, 199 00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:31.720 that were presumably labor saving farming devices. Yeah, but we don't, 200 00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:33.159 you know, we don't know a heck of a lot 201 00:15:33.159 --> 00:15:36.120 about it. I mean, he did go off to college, 202 00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:39.919 although he doesn't seem to have graduated. He did have 203 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:49.519 several jobs that related to electrical engineering and ultimately, at 204 00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:55.159 a somewhat advanced age for the time, he got married 205 00:15:55.720 --> 00:15:58.240 to a woman from a very prominent local family and 206 00:15:58.320 --> 00:15:59.480 became a farmer. 207 00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:06.559 You talk about his father had married and when Andrew 208 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:11.559 was eighteen, his mother died. There was a long progressive illness, 209 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:15.080 and so Andrew remained at his father's side assisting in 210 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:17.240 the farm work, as you say, in the livestock breeding. 211 00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:21.279 His father and continued with that, and then Philip took 212 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:29.559 another wife, and eventually he took another wife much later. 213 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:34.519 Maybe he can tell us about an event that maybe 214 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:40.879 forebode the future involving this much younger stepmother and when 215 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:43.440 ed Andrew had moved back to the farm with his 216 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:44.600 father and the stepmother. 217 00:16:46.759 --> 00:16:52.240 Yeah, well again, that's one of those events that took 218 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:59.840 on a very sinister cast in light of the atrocity 219 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:05.960 that Kiho ultimately was responsible for. So again it's a 220 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:11.640 little hard to know, uh, you know what really when happened. 221 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:17.200 I mean, what we do know is that at the time, uh, 222 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:24.279 gasoline fueled ovens had been were being marketed around the 223 00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:27.680 country as a kind of date of the art cooking 224 00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:33.000 device that would save housewives. The trouble of getting up 225 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:36.880 early in the morning and you know, starting a wood 226 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:41.839 fire and their oven. You know, there are wood stoves, 227 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:46.480 you know, these were devices that had a little you know, 228 00:17:46.519 --> 00:17:50.839 a little fuel tank above the stove, you know, which 229 00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:54.680 held gasoline that would be fed into a stove. So 230 00:17:55.079 --> 00:18:00.799 needless to say, you know there, you know, they were 231 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:05.640 very dangerous and there are all these stories about these 232 00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:09.599 horrible gas explosions and you know, people being killed, are 233 00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:13.640 horribly injured, and that appears, and that's what happened with 234 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:21.000 Keto's stepmother. Now, the story that again gained circulation much 235 00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:25.000 much later in the wake of Pebo's crime, you know, 236 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:28.559 is that you know, he came to the house and 237 00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:32.559 saw that she was in flames, and he basically did nothing. 238 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:35.960 You know. One writer claimed he just stood there and 239 00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:41.039 watched her burn. Again, it's very very hard to know 240 00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:45.119 how much credence to uh, you know, to give that 241 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:46.519 that account. 242 00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:50.880 M hm, yeah, I understand what you're saying. In retrospect, 243 00:18:50.920 --> 00:18:53.839 everything seems to fall in place, and there was all 244 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:57.279 these signs. But obviously if there were never any of 245 00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:00.279 this event, we would never hear any of those these 246 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:02.480 signs you talk about. 247 00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:06.279 Again, you know, I am saying that, but I'm also 248 00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:10.200 saying that might not have been a sign because it 249 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:15.480 actually might not have happened. In other words, his mother 250 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:20.359 definitely died. His stepmother definitely died in an explosion from 251 00:19:20.559 --> 00:19:26.279 a gasoline stove. But whether you know, Keio just stood 252 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:28.759 there and watched her burned to death, you know, that 253 00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:30.319 is a very open question. 254 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:36.519 Though certainly, certainly on May fourteenth, you write that nineteen twelve, 255 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:41.119 eight months after stepmother Francis's death, Andrew took a wife. 256 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:44.720 And this is Ellen Agnes Price, or they called her Nelly, 257 00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:49.799 and her dad had served as Lancing's chief of police 258 00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:53.920 at one time and president of Lancing Auto body Company. 259 00:19:54.000 --> 00:20:00.640 So tell us a little bit about this relationship with uh, 260 00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:06.400 with Nelly and the relationship that he had with the parents. 261 00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:09.440 What was the There was some ties with the parents 262 00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:14.200 in terms of their home. Tell us about that, Well. 263 00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:16.480 I mean, Nelly came from a you know, a very 264 00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:22.960 prominent local family. Uh, and uh, you know she she 265 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:28.440 and Andrew again married what, as I said, for the time, 266 00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:32.079 would have been regarded as I mean, she would have 267 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:36.400 been I can't remember exact age, but essentially, again, given 268 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:39.440 the age we live in, or they lived in uh 269 00:20:39.640 --> 00:20:46.279 would have been regarded as an old maid pretty much. Uh. 270 00:20:46.480 --> 00:20:53.440 She she had through her uncle. Uh, they were able 271 00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:59.359 to purchase uh well when her when her uncle, who 272 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:03.799 owned a great deal of property around the farming community 273 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:09.599 of Bath, died, they were able. Andrew is able and 274 00:21:09.640 --> 00:21:15.880 Nelly to purchase from his estate a very large flourishing farm, 275 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:20.720 which is where they ultimately settled. And it was Nelly's 276 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:29.519 relatives who basically owned the mortgage that Keiho had taken 277 00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:32.799 out on the farm because they were in charge of 278 00:21:32.839 --> 00:21:35.359 they were the executors of the estate. 279 00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:42.720 Right now. At the same time you write about Andrew 280 00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:46.720 at this time, he seemed like an unusually clever and 281 00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:51.000 capable and accommodating fellow that was always ready to lend 282 00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:54.680 a hand and ask for nothing in return, especially when 283 00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:57.720 he was willing to put his mechanical skills to use 284 00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:00.200 to benefit his neighbors. 285 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:04.279 Yes now, well, yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead, yes sorry, 286 00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:06.920 go ahead? Yeah now. 287 00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:15.839 You talked about Lee Hoo becoming integrated into the into 288 00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:20.359 the community, into the social life. At this time with 289 00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:24.799 his personality, despite anything that people would say otherwise, he 290 00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:29.720 still was enjoying playing card games with other couples. But 291 00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:32.559 there were things that people did notice at that time. 292 00:22:32.680 --> 00:22:35.640 Not to say that there were you know, deal breakers 293 00:22:35.960 --> 00:22:39.119 not having friends, but you write that some of the 294 00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:42.720 things that people noticed at that time very very unusual. 295 00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:47.319 Tell us some of the things that friends noticed, you know, 296 00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:51.440 the card game, but also how he he he addressed 297 00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:54.839 while working in the fields. 298 00:22:55.039 --> 00:23:00.759 Yeah, Keeho would dress like a bank or really when 299 00:23:00.759 --> 00:23:04.559 he when he went out to work. You know, obviously 300 00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:07.279 all these other farmers were in coveralls and so on 301 00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:09.759 and so forth, and you know, Andrew would go out 302 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:15.839 in a suit. He was very very very meticulous, perhaps 303 00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:20.759 you know, to an excessive degree. I mean probably, you know, 304 00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:26.240 it's very possible a modern psychologist would diagnose him as O. C. D. 305 00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:35.000 You know. And and and it extended again to these 306 00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:37.480 card games that he and his wife would be part of, 307 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:41.480 you know, because he was very very rigid in terms 308 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:45.960 of everybody following the rules very very precisely and exactly. 309 00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:54.279 You know, so there was something very well, there was 310 00:23:54.279 --> 00:24:01.240 something slightly tyrannical about him again, something very very very rigid. 311 00:24:01.799 --> 00:24:06.480 You know, people like that are often keeping, sometimes without 312 00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:11.599 their own knowledge, a very very tight lid on all 313 00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:16.920 kinds of threatening and disruptive impulses, which, in Keyho's case, 314 00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:20.440 sometimes broke through. I mean again, these were stories that 315 00:24:20.519 --> 00:24:26.240 were told only later on. But apparently at one point 316 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:31.680 he killed a neighbor's puppy who had wandered onto his property, 317 00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:39.039 and at another time apparently beat a recalcitrant horse to death. 318 00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:44.480 So you know, underlying, you know, this is a very 319 00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:50.960 very you know, adherence to rigid social behavior. There were 320 00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:55.279 these very dark and apparently sadistic impulses. 321 00:24:56.519 --> 00:25:01.640 Mm hm, Now there was you right there. Farm bureaus 322 00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:06.480 were were popping up and forming throughout the country, cooperative 323 00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:10.160 organizations devoted to promoting the practical and economic interests of 324 00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:13.960 local farmers. And when this National Farm Bureau was founded 325 00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:18.599 in nineteen nineteen, Andrew volunteered to head its drive for membership. 326 00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:21.240 And you write a couple of years later, in nineteen 327 00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:24.839 twenty one, he's elected to the board of directors directors 328 00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:29.960 of its Bath of its Bath Township unit. Tell us 329 00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:33.519 about his stay in this position. 330 00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:45.200 Well, it's it's you know, again, this only a limited 331 00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:55.440 amount that we know about it. Keiho again, in various 332 00:25:57.319 --> 00:26:03.279 parts of his life, want to exert you know, it's 333 00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:06.680 related to what we were just talking about before. He was, 334 00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:10.480 to an extent what we would now call a control freak, 335 00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:14.640 and he had very strong and rigid opinions about things 336 00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:19.880 and a very very powerful sense that his way was 337 00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:25.920 the right way and did not easily brook any kind 338 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:32.599 of opposition and would develop, as it turned out, you know, 339 00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:38.200 very very extreme grudges against people who opposed him. So 340 00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:45.640 it's not exactly clear what led him to leave that post, 341 00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:49.759 to quit the Farm Bureau post, but it's easy enough 342 00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:53.319 to imagine. You know, there was something along those lines. 343 00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:59.519 You talk about them among the various reformist crusades of 344 00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:03.680 eighteen ninety to nineteen twenty in America called the Progressive Era, 345 00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:07.680 was a movement to overall the badly outdated school systems 346 00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:11.759 in rural districts throughout the Midwest. And you talked about 347 00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:15.519 the difference in you know, children going to country in 348 00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:19.240 country towns being schooled as opposed to people in the 349 00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:24.319 big cities. So there was this reform going on. How 350 00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:28.519 did what did it manifest itself in terms of for 351 00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:35.200 Bath itself, and what did Andrew feel about this this 352 00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:38.680 move towards consolidating a school and building a new school. 353 00:27:39.440 --> 00:27:41.759 What did he think about this along with others? Was 354 00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:44.200 there why were there some resistance to this? 355 00:27:46.599 --> 00:27:51.200 Well, what you're referring to is this movement which occurred 356 00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:57.319 in regional areas throughout the country, sorry, rural areas throughout 357 00:27:57.359 --> 00:28:01.359 the country, to do a way with the old one 358 00:28:01.480 --> 00:28:07.119 room schoolhouse system and to replace those schools with what 359 00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:12.160 they can called modern consolidated schools, where the students in 360 00:28:12.200 --> 00:28:18.000 the community would all be educated from elementary up through 361 00:28:18.079 --> 00:28:23.400 high school. And you know, part of the rationalepha that 362 00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:27.559 was that there were a lot of farm people who 363 00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:32.519 felt that their children were not being educated in the 364 00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:36.559 way that city kids were, and that was leaving them 365 00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:40.200 at a disadvantage in terms of their future in a 366 00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:44.680 rapidly modernizing world. But there were other people in the 367 00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:49.960 community who opposed these consolidated schools because, you know, there 368 00:28:49.960 --> 00:28:53.480 were a big expense they would be paid for by 369 00:28:53.559 --> 00:28:57.039 increases in their taxes, and they felt that, you know, 370 00:28:57.119 --> 00:29:00.920 the old little red school houses were fine for them. 371 00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:05.319 And since they assumed that their you know, their kids 372 00:29:05.319 --> 00:29:08.599 are going to just grew up to be farmers or 373 00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:11.759 farm wise, you know, they had no need for a 374 00:29:11.799 --> 00:29:19.000 fancy education. So in Bath, as in many other communities 375 00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:22.079 across the country, there was a debate over whether they 376 00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:27.359 should invest in this new consolidated school, and ultimately the 377 00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:33.680 people who were for it prevailed. Keyho was among the opponents, 378 00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:42.240 largely because he resented having additional property taxes, particularly since 379 00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:46.519 he and Nelly had no children. Once the school was 380 00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:50.839 erected and became, you know, really the pride of the community, 381 00:29:51.880 --> 00:29:57.680 Keyhoe made sure to get himself appointed as school board 382 00:29:57.799 --> 00:30:03.839 treasurer so that he could keep you know, tightrain on 383 00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:06.400 school expenditures and so on. 384 00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:07.880 Mm hm. 385 00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:13.720 Who was the superintendent of this new consolidated school and 386 00:30:13.839 --> 00:30:15.680 what was what was his character? 387 00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:16.240 Like? 388 00:30:17.119 --> 00:30:23.440 Seemingly well superintendent was a young man, excuse me, a 389 00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:30.599 young man named Emery Hoike, a college graduate and you know, 390 00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:38.000 very very devoted educator who was determined, uh to bring 391 00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:42.680 the educational standards of the new school up, you know, 392 00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:47.079 to as high a level as possible, which he succeeded 393 00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:51.599 in doing in very short order. The school had to 394 00:30:51.640 --> 00:30:59.359 be accredited by the state, and under Hike's leadership it 395 00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:03.079 did so very very quickly. But at the same time, 396 00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:16.079 Andrew Keyhoe developed this incredible antipathy toward Hoyke, partly because 397 00:31:16.119 --> 00:31:21.279 he felt that Hoyke was spending money a little too 398 00:31:21.319 --> 00:31:27.359 freely to improve the school. But also, you know, Keyhoe 399 00:31:27.559 --> 00:31:33.599 couldn't really tolerate another man being in competition with him 400 00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:36.000 in any position of power, so. 401 00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:42.839