Speaker 1: You just have to have some gambling you to play
Speaker 1: poker tournaments. Like there's no like backup, Like if poker
Speaker 1: doesn't work out, it's not like I'm gonna like work
Speaker 1: for some family business, like there is no backup.
Speaker 2: Hey, this is Remco. Thanks for clicking on the video.
Speaker 2: This is my brand new podcast called Face the Ace,
Speaker 2: in which I talked to the most interesting people in
Speaker 2: poker and go a little deeper into the topics you
Speaker 2: most care about. Enjoy one person I've never had on
Speaker 2: the podcast because you weren't big time yet back when
Speaker 2: I was doing shows, mister Jeremy Becker. Jeremy, welcome to
Speaker 2: the show. Thanks for having me pleasure to have you
Speaker 2: here on the show. We got a ton to dive into.
Speaker 2: It's called the human side of poker, and I figured
Speaker 2: the most human of them all who claims that the
Speaker 2: computers might not be as necessary might just be you.
Speaker 2: Do you think that among the crowd of players you
Speaker 2: move around in that's correct?
Speaker 1: I could maybe think of one other person possibly that's
Speaker 1: not into the whole computer solver stuff. I don't even
Speaker 1: know if it's widely known, so I don't really want
Speaker 1: to put them out there, but yeah, I think pretty
Speaker 1: much everyone is into it except me.
Speaker 2: So as far as that style or that approach to
Speaker 2: a game that generally is now seen as solved or
Speaker 2: a game that's seen as you know, too tough to
Speaker 2: beat without those tools, was it an active decision? Are you?
Speaker 2: Are you now just resisting and holding on? Are you
Speaker 2: perhaps tempted to dive into it sooner than later?
Speaker 1: I would say it's a bit tempting, just because, like now,
Speaker 1: being surrounded by these people, I kind of see like
Speaker 1: just how good they are, and a big reason is
Speaker 1: because of how hard they study and whatnot. But I
Speaker 1: don't really think for me personally, just like my style,
Speaker 1: getting into that would do me much good. I think
Speaker 1: I would lose some of the stuff that I do
Speaker 1: well and maybe become like a worse version of them.
Speaker 1: So for me, I think I'm just really holding off, honestly.
Speaker 2: So when you learn, I'm assuming it's a lot through
Speaker 2: observing and seeing how people approach certain things. It almost
Speaker 2: must mean that you pick up on certain things stylistically
Speaker 2: that they have learned from studying and you learned from observing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say I definitely have a good idea
Speaker 1: of how the solver like thinks through hands, just from
Speaker 1: like talking poker hands with my friends who do study them,
Speaker 1: but like me personally, like I've never pulled one up
Speaker 1: on the computer or anything like this, but I would
Speaker 1: say from like playing against them and talking with them
Speaker 1: through hands, like I have some sort of idea of
Speaker 1: like what sort of hands want to do certain things
Speaker 1: on different board textures and whatnot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the accomplishments that you've had so far, in
Speaker 2: my opinion, are even more impressive when you're not utilizing
Speaker 2: basically the full array of of what is out there
Speaker 2: right now. For the people that are watching this, by
Speaker 2: the way, we are on video and we're also on
Speaker 2: audio feeds for those that like to listen to this
Speaker 2: as they walk the dog or do chores at home.
Speaker 2: This gentleman five point three million in career earnings. And
Speaker 2: I'm a huge hend and mob nerd. I've always been
Speaker 2: a hand and mob nerd. And one of the things
Speaker 2: I always love to look at is what's the biggest
Speaker 2: live cash in relation to the total earnings, because it
Speaker 2: says it a little bit about you know, how did
Speaker 2: that person get there? You win the main event for
Speaker 2: ten million, and you got eleven million in earnings. You know, then,
Speaker 2: what have you really done for me lately? But in
Speaker 2: your case, for the longest time, your biggest cash was
Speaker 2: less than ten percent of your total earnings. You have
Speaker 2: almost six hundred live results in tournament buyings going down
Speaker 2: as low as free roles. I almost want to say,
Speaker 2: like you play literally everything, and that I think says
Speaker 2: something perhaps that's even more important than a player's app
Speaker 2: to have to study. Is your appetite to put in
Speaker 2: the hours, grind, have the discipline to keep showing up
Speaker 2: day after day. Do you think that is a quality
Speaker 2: in and of itself and do you think that that
Speaker 2: is something that you utilize for your success.
Speaker 1: I think that there's this term. Actually I've been hearing
Speaker 1: a lot lady like a pub stomper. Do you know
Speaker 1: have any idea? So it's basically like how somebody plays
Speaker 1: against like the recreational player, or like sort of like
Speaker 1: fish and big fields, if you will. And I think
Speaker 1: in like these lower but like for instance, during the summer,
Speaker 1: like the fifteen hundred monster stack or something like. I
Speaker 1: think certain players who like theoretically maybe aren't like in
Speaker 1: quotes like a good poker player just do really well
Speaker 1: in these sorts of fields, and I think those are
Speaker 1: the type of people that I played and because my
Speaker 1: buy and range, I mean, I would say my average
Speaker 1: buy in for a very long time was like two
Speaker 1: hundred dollars, And these are the types of players that
Speaker 1: are going to be playing these things. And I think
Speaker 1: I just really got good from like experience and trial
Speaker 1: and error of playing these player types. And even to
Speaker 1: this day, like you go play a thirty five hundred
Speaker 1: WPT or something like, you're gonna see I don't want
Speaker 1: to say a majority, but a good amount of players
Speaker 1: in the field are the types of players that I
Speaker 1: was playing in these two hundred for a really long time.
Speaker 1: Let me think of an example. I don't want to
Speaker 1: say put anyone on blast here, because I think there's
Speaker 1: just people like in the studio that like are great
Speaker 1: poker players, but like you're really playing a different game
Speaker 1: when you're playing in like these big field like lower
Speaker 1: buy in like events, and I think that's just like
Speaker 1: a whole you need to play a whole different style.
Speaker 1: And I think I've gotten like I would take myself
Speaker 1: first almost anybody in America in these like sort of
Speaker 1: events where like theoretically, yeah, people are gonna be way
Speaker 1: like better than me, but they don't really know like
Speaker 1: the response to what some of these people are doing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's probably my biggest like, uh, what's the
Speaker 1: word your your edge? So yeah, I think I have
Speaker 1: a really big edge in that, like especially going into
Speaker 1: the summer, like my like let's say, uh, somebody like
Speaker 1: who's been catching a lot of heat, like Maurice Hawkins.
Speaker 1: I think like Sean Deeve is actually really good at this.
Speaker 1: He has tons of experience and success in these sorts
Speaker 1: of events where like you just know how to play
Speaker 1: like the average recreational and that's the majority of the
Speaker 1: playerpool you're gonna see in these big field events. So
Speaker 1: I think I've done really well and that's like where
Speaker 1: my edge comes from in that.
Speaker 2: So do you think that guys that exclusively play ten
Speaker 2: K plus buy ins are unable to adjust in a
Speaker 2: meaningful way against that different sort of player pool, Because
Speaker 2: to me, it almost seems sometimes like if you study
Speaker 2: and just learn how to play and then have some
Speaker 2: I guess tools to your disposal mentally to adjust based
Speaker 2: on opponents, then it shouldn't be that difficult to adjust downwards.
Speaker 2: It's almost more difficult to adjust upwards as a competition increases.
Speaker 2: Or do you think that you know, players that only
Speaker 2: play those big bunds have huge leaks and if they do.
Speaker 1: What are some of those I don't want to say leaks,
Speaker 1: just like like I'm not going to sit here and
Speaker 1: be like, oh, Steven Chidwick has no shot in the
Speaker 1: Milliemaker because like he's one of the best poker players
Speaker 1: in the world. Yeah, but like I just think maybe
Speaker 1: there will be certain spots where like he'll have a
Speaker 1: certain hand that like, okay, like I have this sort
Speaker 1: of like blocker, I just have to call here, Like
Speaker 1: my hand is great as a call here. But when
Speaker 1: you're playing like Rick from fucking Arkansas, like Rick's just
Speaker 1: never bluffing his tournament life off here like ever, so
Speaker 1: regardless of like your hand, like you almost just have
Speaker 1: like a pure fold, you know, And maybe I mean
Speaker 1: I don't want to say like guys like that aren't
Speaker 1: looking for these sorts of things, but like batsizing patterns
Speaker 1: with these type of players are is like the number
Speaker 1: one most important thing. Like even if it's like let's
Speaker 1: say pre flop, it's like raise and then three bet
Speaker 1: like three acts and then I'm in like the small
Speaker 1: blind with like a blaw let's say, like some shitty ace.
Speaker 1: But I just saw last orbit, the same guy three
Speaker 1: beat and showed down Kings and he went like four
Speaker 1: x in like a similar position. Like he's just typically
Speaker 1: not going to be as strong, So I don't mind
Speaker 1: like just going with my read and taking some shit
Speaker 1: hand and like trying to get all this dead money
Speaker 1: where I think, like I keep using Stevie just because
Speaker 1: like he's one of the best, yeah poker players, and
Speaker 1: he may fucking be really well in these fields, Like
Speaker 1: I just don't know, I've never played with him in them,
Speaker 1: but he might just look down at like Acedu's off
Speaker 1: right there and be like all right, fold and like
Speaker 1: not think twice. But this guy's literally telling you, like
Speaker 1: by his sizing, that he just doesn't have like a
Speaker 1: hand that he's willing to go with. And I just
Speaker 1: like don't care of looking stupid. Really where I think
Speaker 1: that's really important in tournaments, I.
Speaker 2: Think you hit on something really interesting that the not
Speaker 2: looking stupid part. Sometimes when you observe, especially final tables,
Speaker 2: it becomes like a math contest in many ways, where
Speaker 2: I see you guys playing in the studio on day one,
Speaker 2: lots of bands, are lots of chatter, people running around.
Speaker 2: We've done some of the streaming where you know, you
Speaker 2: see some more of that insight sort of baseball where
Speaker 2: you guys just have like talk about prop bets and
Speaker 2: all sorts of nonsense, and then the final table rolls
Speaker 2: around and it's pretty quiet and people focus on the math.
Speaker 2: And the thing that I always think when I watched
Speaker 2: that is like, Oh, they don't want to look stupid,
Speaker 2: they don't want to make a mistake because this is
Speaker 2: on TV. This will make a highlight reel, or maybe
Speaker 2: they'll their their investor or their friend will text them
Speaker 2: afterwards and say, you know this, this spot is a
Speaker 2: pure fold stuff like that, and just not having that
Speaker 2: or not having those f's to give in spots like
Speaker 2: that could definitely be a place where you get an edge.
Speaker 2: Do you think that there's room for that too at
Speaker 2: the studio level or are you completely switching up your game?
Speaker 1: Am I switching up my game at a final table?
Speaker 2: Year?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: No I between in the studio in general, because the.
Speaker 1: I think definitely when I first started playing in the studio,
Speaker 1: I was very like trying to take it way more
Speaker 1: serious than like, for instance, one k at Venetian in
Speaker 1: this just in the sense of like table presence, like
Speaker 1: I don't like we've never played poker together, but I
Speaker 1: mean at the table like I'm fucking yeah, and like
Speaker 1: I'm talking shit like I'm talking during the hand, you know,
Speaker 1: and from the outside looking in, you might be like, oh,
Speaker 1: this kid just doesn't care, like he's just having a
Speaker 1: good time. But like for me, that's what works and
Speaker 1: makes me like most comfortable and just talking out loud,
Speaker 1: like poker is a social game, Like I'm not there
Speaker 1: to make friends, like I'm there to make money, but
Speaker 1: I want to like have fun while doing it. Where
Speaker 1: I found myself in the studio, it wasn't really nervous,
Speaker 1: just like, oh my god, this is a ten k
Speaker 1: like way above my typical buy and range, Like let
Speaker 1: me be like more serious and at the beginning, like
Speaker 1: I found that that just wasn't like working for me,
Speaker 1: Like I would just find myself like getting short later
Speaker 1: in the tournament or for whatever reason, like just the
Speaker 1: whole quiet serious like doesn't work for me personally. Where
Speaker 1: and I remember I literally texted Daniel and Josh who
Speaker 1: invested in me in poker, and I was like, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna play this series. It was the Bounty series. I
Speaker 1: think there were six tournaments and I ft'd like five
Speaker 1: of them and one one, and I was just like,
Speaker 1: going into the series, I'm gonna treat these tournaments like
Speaker 1: a four hundred a Venetian. I said, just like, by
Speaker 1: the way I'm like acting in my table presence, and
Speaker 1: it fucking really worked out. If that was a coincidence,
Speaker 1: I don't know. But ever since then, I've just been
Speaker 1: way more like comfortable and uh more of like myself
Speaker 1: at the table, and I think that's really important. But
Speaker 1: as for like playing style, No, if you played the
Speaker 1: same way as you do in like a big field
Speaker 1: one k in a ten k at the studio, like
Speaker 1: you're just gonna be dead. So I definitely do play
Speaker 1: a little bit different.
Speaker 2: So it's interesting because you mentioned Daniel Legrand or josh
Speaker 2: Aria who invests in you, and we can touch on
Speaker 2: this on this later, but I find the progression interesting
Speaker 2: because the string of results you've had in Lord buying
Speaker 2: events show to your point that you've sort of figured
Speaker 2: out how to be successful in those. Now you have
Speaker 2: sort of an idea and understanding of what works, what
Speaker 2: doesn't work, and how to sort of go through that
Speaker 2: mindfield type setting. And a player that comes to mind
Speaker 2: who does this too very well is helping who really
Speaker 2: benefits from you know, players that are recreational, that are
Speaker 2: just having fun, that at some point will give their
Speaker 2: chips away and then for you to then move up
Speaker 2: through the ranks as your bankroll grows. Makes total sense
Speaker 2: from a progression point of view, but from a approach
Speaker 2: point of view and the way you see poker and
Speaker 2: the way you see you know, how do I beat
Speaker 2: this game? It almost doesn't make sense because that's not
Speaker 2: what your game is sort of built on. So how
Speaker 2: did you make that change?
Speaker 1: I think a big thing for me in like studio success,
Speaker 1: just the way that I learn is more like trial
Speaker 1: and error and playing experience. And also I used to
Speaker 1: watch these Gigi Super Mis final tables, you know what
Speaker 1: that is. So these are like the best players in
Speaker 1: the world, and they post these final tables on YouTube
Speaker 1: with the cards up, and you just see like every
Speaker 1: single hand what people are folding and going with in
Speaker 1: certain spots and whatnot. And I really watched like all
Speaker 1: of those for a long time, and the types of
Speaker 1: players in those events are more of like the studio types,
Speaker 1: like very studied, calculated, and I honestly think that helped
Speaker 1: me a lot, as well as just talking with people
Speaker 1: that play in there through hands as I became more
Speaker 1: and more friendly with them and just recognizing like patterns
Speaker 1: in the way that they play, and just like using
Speaker 1: logic throughout the hand, Like I think the way that
Speaker 1: I play is rather than like, Okay, this hand is
Speaker 1: like a go in this spot, I'm more so like
Speaker 1: what can I do to confuse my opponent, where like Okay,
Speaker 1: this bord texture, you're gonna want to bet like thirty
Speaker 1: percent pot where I might be like all right on
Speaker 1: this board texture, like maybe I'm going to bet eighty
Speaker 1: percent because I want the reaction of like what the
Speaker 1: fuck is he doing? Like that's not a thing, Like
Speaker 1: what is he trying to say he has? If you
Speaker 1: can confuse your opponent, I think, and be like unpredictable
Speaker 1: to me, I think that's the hardest to play against,
Speaker 1: rather than like doing everything like correctly and just playing
Speaker 1: the same as everybody else and pretty much just like
Speaker 1: I just want to make it a guessing game for
Speaker 1: my opponent, and I think for me personally, like that's
Speaker 1: what fits me well, where for others maybe that won't work.
Speaker 1: But just like I don't know, everybody's a different person
Speaker 1: and has slightly different style, so I don't know. I
Speaker 1: think I found what works for me, and I'm always
Speaker 1: trying to come up with different ideas and whatnot.
Speaker 2: When you describe this pivot in playing styles or this
Speaker 2: this trial and error way of sort of you know,
Speaker 2: figuring it out more us, you almost make it seem
Speaker 2: like this is like a simple thing where you have
Speaker 2: been successful at a certain level and now we're going
Speaker 2: to just you know, go through the next phase and
Speaker 2: play these higher buyings and I will again, you know,
Speaker 2: figure it out which you have. But it's almost like
Speaker 2: you're under selling whatever the X factor is that you
Speaker 2: have or you possess, or that your mind goes into
Speaker 2: that allows you to do that, because the way you
Speaker 2: describe it, it almost you're almost convincing me that I
Speaker 2: can go to the studio and figure it out. But
Speaker 2: that's obviously going to backfire horribly and my wife would
Speaker 2: divorce me and we would lose all our money. But
Speaker 2: in your case, you were able to do that what
Speaker 2: gave you the confidence that you could do that?
Speaker 1: Man. I really just think like I started, like I
Speaker 1: don't know what you know about like my start, Like
Speaker 1: when I finished college, I really did not have much
Speaker 1: money at all, and like got offered a job and
Speaker 1: turned it down to play poker, and like my deal
Speaker 1: with my mom was if I lost that money, I
Speaker 1: would get job. And it was just like back against
Speaker 1: the wall, like I can't lose this money. I'm not
Speaker 1: sitting in a fucking office every day like I have
Speaker 1: to play poker. And I just like basically I just
Speaker 1: really came from nothing, like there was no backup playing
Speaker 1: like nobody like I don't come from money, Like my
Speaker 1: family wasn't like okay, you keep losing, like here's more,
Speaker 1: eventually you'll spin it up. So I just had to
Speaker 1: like figure out ways to win. And uh, I used
Speaker 1: to just play cash grinding every day and eventually just
Speaker 1: like climbed up the ranks and finally got into tournaments.
Speaker 1: And I just like it's really like playing experience and
Speaker 1: trial and error. Like I get asked a lot from
Speaker 1: like mid stakes and low steaks guys for coaching, and
Speaker 1: I'm really like I just don't think it would be
Speaker 1: worth it to you right now. Like I can't explain
Speaker 1: sometimes what goes on in my mind, Like a spot
Speaker 1: will just come to me and I'll just be like,
Speaker 1: this guy just doesn't fucking have it, and I really
Speaker 1: can't explain why, Like it just I just go with
Speaker 1: my gut and generally i'd like to think it's right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like a lot of my thought process I just can't
Speaker 1: really explain to people. Just for whatever reason, like I
Speaker 1: get a feeling like this will work or this won't work,
Speaker 1: or this guy has this or that, and I just
Speaker 1: trust myself and I think rather than like second guessing myself,
Speaker 1: I really just go with what I'm thinking. And I'm
Speaker 1: not scared to like look like an idiot. I mean
Speaker 1: that happens, but I think long term, like my decisions
Speaker 1: will just work out profitably.
Speaker 2: I think and correct me if I'm wrong. This is
Speaker 2: probably much more a personality trait than than you might
Speaker 2: even understand, you know, just from like a poker perspective,
Speaker 2: because it sounds as though that initial decision to go
Speaker 2: for it and to play poker was sort of rooted
Speaker 2: in the same way of thinking, where you would figure
Speaker 2: it out and you will figure it out because you
Speaker 2: had the determination and you clearly have the intelligence to
Speaker 2: try and do that. Is that something you recognize from
Speaker 2: earlier in your life, or maybe your mom will say
Speaker 2: something like, oh, yeah, you know the way that you
Speaker 2: are now. I saw that growing up. Like did you
Speaker 2: attach yourself to certain things and you figured them out
Speaker 2: on the go, or maybe maybe poker was the first
Speaker 2: sort of thing to really click for you. But do
Speaker 2: you have examples of that?
Speaker 1: I would just say I was a very big I
Speaker 1: mean it's all relative, but like growing up, let's say
Speaker 1: middle school, high school, like me and my group of friends,
Speaker 1: like we're gambling our net worths every day against each
Speaker 1: other in like whatever game, whether it's like golf, basketball,
Speaker 1: like shooting dice, like literally anything, and it's just like
Speaker 1: I've had it all on the line so many times,
Speaker 1: just like believing in myself. Like literally we used to
Speaker 1: just roll one dice and like the first one to
Speaker 1: roll the six just wins the pot. And we'd have
Speaker 1: like literally all of our money in the middle of
Speaker 1: the pool table rolling this dice, and like in my
Speaker 1: head with the dice in my hand, like it's like
Speaker 1: run it again, like I'm gonna get the fucking six,
Speaker 1: like and there's nothing, there's no strategy or anything. You
Speaker 1: just like I just really like believed in myself and
Speaker 1: in those cases, like it did not work out a
Speaker 1: lot of the time, but just like feeling like for
Speaker 1: whatever reason that like I have this edge and like
Speaker 1: I will like get it done. Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: that's just always stuck with me, and I've had to
Speaker 1: like figure it out, and luckily I've been successful generally.
Speaker 2: So let's go back to your cash game era. Was
Speaker 2: that sort of a linear way to make money where
Speaker 2: you know, you found your stakes, you moved up. You know,
Speaker 2: it was easy enough to play in an environment where
Speaker 2: you know, if you have your sort of approach and
Speaker 2: your determination, you will make money or potentially were there
Speaker 2: are massive ups and downs where there were times where
Speaker 2: you were not sure if it was going to.
Speaker 1: Work out well at first, Like in college. So I
Speaker 1: went to college in Florida, and I grew up gambling
Speaker 1: with my friends. So when I got to college, I
Speaker 1: was less than ten minutes from hard Rock casino in Tampa,
Speaker 1: and me and my friends, I turned my college friends
Speaker 1: into gamblers that never really gambled before, and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden now they're djens and UH. In the casino,
Speaker 1: to play like blackjack or roulette whatever, you need to
Speaker 1: be twenty one, but to play poker you only need
Speaker 1: to be eighteen. So initially we went to the casino
Speaker 1: just looking to gamble, and we couldn't gamble on anything,
Speaker 1: only poker. So I was almost like forced to because
Speaker 1: I just needed to like scratch that itch. I was
Speaker 1: basically like forced to play poker, and I just really
Speaker 1: loved it. And initially, obviously I just lost and lost.
Speaker 1: But I was playing one to one, no limit, one
Speaker 1: hundred dollars max, and I think I was coming in
Speaker 1: for the minimum was either forty or sixty. I think
Speaker 1: it was forty, And initially I was just coming in
Speaker 1: for the minimum a bunch and uh just losing every
Speaker 1: buy in and uh going south sometimes when I needed
Speaker 1: to to make sure I had money to like get
Speaker 1: a cab back because I knew I was going to
Speaker 1: lose in the end. But even then, like almost like
Speaker 1: the parlay ticket, like I'm coming in for the minimum,
Speaker 1: trying to like spin it up, you know, and not
Speaker 1: risk like a lot, which in that time like buying
Speaker 1: in for a hundred and just getting stacked right away
Speaker 1: like that hurt. Like I'm a college kid. I saved
Speaker 1: some money, like my mom would make me put away
Speaker 1: some money. When I was in high school, I was
Speaker 1: a caddie out a golf course, so I was gambling
Speaker 1: most of it, but some was in the bank. And
Speaker 1: now I'm using all of that to play poker and
Speaker 1: just lost for like a year straight, making excuses to
Speaker 1: my mom why, like I need my savings from saving
Speaker 1: up my whole life. Just I used to tell her
Speaker 1: anything because they were very anti gambling and they knew
Speaker 1: that I was a gambler in high school. I'm saying, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's my friend's birthday. We went to the strip club,
Speaker 1: and I fucking dusted off five hundred, Like that's better
Speaker 1: than telling my mom I'm playing poker at the casino.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I just was kind of forced to play
Speaker 1: poker when I went to the casino, and I fell
Speaker 1: in love with it and eventually just started winning and
Speaker 1: moved to one, two and then two, five, five, ten,
Speaker 1: et cetera.
Speaker 2: Was was there like a light bulb moment where things
Speaker 2: turned or did you perhaps talk to the right person
Speaker 2: or was there you know, I mean, you mentioned like,
Speaker 2: you know, watching a lot of contents, was there a
Speaker 2: progression that you can sort of root into a certain point?
Speaker 1: After college, I started playing at Resorts World Cat Skills
Speaker 1: in New York, and my family's from New York, so
Speaker 1: I moved back to New York after I graduated and
Speaker 1: was trying to spin up this little money that I
Speaker 1: had to support myself. I was living at home, and
Speaker 1: in ten months I spun it to like, let's say,
Speaker 1: a little bit on their one hundred k, just from
Speaker 1: like I don't know, I didn't really have expenses. I stopped,
Speaker 1: like I was watching high stakes poker, like Poker Go,
Speaker 1: whatever YouTube poker there was. I was just non stop
Speaker 1: watching it when I wasn't playing, and everyone's so big
Speaker 1: on the bank roll management. I'm watching whatever sort of videos,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, just the action in Florida was much
Speaker 1: better than New York, and I got really motivated to
Speaker 1: like save up and go back down to Florida. My
Speaker 1: best friend from college had an extra year of college.
Speaker 1: He played lacrosse, had an extra year of eligibility, so like,
Speaker 1: I wanted to go down there with him and just
Speaker 1: hang out and play poker every day. And I got
Speaker 1: motivated to like just have like some sort of bankroll
Speaker 1: management where it wasn't just about playing, It was about
Speaker 1: making money so that I had enough to like go
Speaker 1: down there. And yeah, I don't know, I think that
Speaker 1: motivated me. And then when I started to make money,
Speaker 1: I didn't like want to spend it. I just wanted
Speaker 1: it so that I could play bigger stakes. And yeah,
Speaker 1: that's really what I was motivated by. I was getting
Speaker 1: my own place down in Tampa.
Speaker 2: How do you go from hiding from your your your
Speaker 2: family that you're you know, spending money or losing money
Speaker 2: playing poker too, then coming to them saying, look, I've
Speaker 2: won all this money but playing poker. Was there you know,
Speaker 2: a moment where you had to come clean that in
Speaker 2: the like, oh Mom, sorry, the I did. I never
Speaker 2: went to the strip club. This was all poker money.
Speaker 2: But now look at me, now I'm doing great. Do
Speaker 2: you remember perhaps that conversation.
Speaker 1: Well, I actually didn't admit to my mom that I
Speaker 1: was playing as much as I was in college until
Speaker 1: like maybe a couple of years ago, so I had that.
Speaker 1: I think she always knew.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I mean she knew. I just what
Speaker 1: can she say if she sees like my bank account
Speaker 1: like going up and me like being able to support myself.
Speaker 1: Like she made very clear when I did choose to
Speaker 1: play poker that not that like my family has money,
Speaker 1: but like she's my mom. So like let's say I
Speaker 1: was ever like debt broke, like you would think your
Speaker 1: parents would like take you in or whatever, but she's like,
Speaker 1: if you're choosing to gamble for a living rather than
Speaker 1: take a job, like I won't be helping you out
Speaker 1: financially at all. So initially I believe I needed to borrow,
Speaker 1: like I was playing one two, three hundred dollars max
Speaker 1: like after college, and uh, I think I got down
Speaker 1: to like a couple buy ins left, and I was
Speaker 1: like I always came in for the max. I was like, Mom,
Speaker 1: just please, like let me have a hundred bucks or something,
Speaker 1: just so unprepared, like if I need to rebuy, and
Speaker 1: like she gave me that like hundred or whatever it
Speaker 1: was and was like never again, like I'm not giving
Speaker 1: you anything, And I ended up spinning it up and
Speaker 1: like I gave her back. I think I liked double,
Speaker 1: Like if she gave me a hundred, I gave her
Speaker 1: back too, and was like thank you, Like they weren't
Speaker 1: thrilled with it, But I mean, what can they say
Speaker 1: when they see me supporting myself and they're not giving
Speaker 1: me any money for anything and I'm getting my own place, Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's they know how much I love it? Like,
Speaker 1: what can they really say?
Speaker 2: Was there a moment where she realized that you were
Speaker 2: not just paying the bills but you were actually becoming
Speaker 2: kind of like a star in the game, or you
Speaker 2: picked up some notoriety or some level of poker celebrity
Speaker 2: if you will, because you know, your name hit my
Speaker 2: radar many years ago when you were still just you know,
Speaker 2: playing the dailies, and that became almost like a meme.
Speaker 1: You know you're that many though. It was literally I
Speaker 1: moved to Vegas, Like you didn't know who I was
Speaker 1: when I lived in Florida, right, And I didn't move
Speaker 1: to Vegas. I moved here three years and two months ago,
Speaker 1: I think it was. So it wasn't like many years ago.
Speaker 1: It was. I believe I moved at the beginning of
Speaker 1: March twenty twenty three or end of February twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: and before the before that, like my parents were on board,
Speaker 1: but they always like they did not think it was
Speaker 1: like for sure gonna work out. Like always in the
Speaker 1: back of my mom's mind is like, just maybe it
Speaker 1: would be better if, like you got a job before
Speaker 1: I moved here. It was in January of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1: I believe I won a four hundred dollars tournament for
Speaker 1: like thirty five K or something, and honestly, if I
Speaker 1: didn't win that tournament, like I was honestly thinking of
Speaker 1: getting like some sort of second secondhand income, just not
Speaker 1: necessarily taking a job. But just like you know, this
Speaker 1: tournament thing just is fucking brutal. Like I felt like
Speaker 1: I'm getting fucked in every deep tournament. Now I'm playing
Speaker 1: for like I'm playing like two hundreds and four hundreds
Speaker 1: with like sub ten k up top typically, but I
Speaker 1: just like never seem to like get first or second,
Speaker 1: and it's really hard to beat low stakes tournaments with
Speaker 1: break and whatnot. I just remember going I went down
Speaker 1: to Miami where the other hard rock is, and I
Speaker 1: remember thinking like, if this series doesn't work out, like
Speaker 1: I'm just going back to playing cash and maybe getting
Speaker 1: some sort of job.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And then I won that and it was just like
Speaker 1: a complete one eighty, like Okay, fuck it, I'm going
Speaker 1: to Vegas, like let's let's play these tournaments.
Speaker 2: That's so insane. And I'm looking at your at your
Speaker 2: results now, and it's actually kind of funny because I
Speaker 2: never fully realized how many cashes you already had just
Speaker 2: in Florida playing the like sort of the smaller buying
Speaker 2: tournaments there.
Speaker 1: The one eighty triple stack that was like that was
Speaker 1: your thing, that was the tournament every day pretty much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But then as you described this, that sounds like
Speaker 2: an enormous break even stretch where you're just like in
Speaker 2: the washing machine, where you know, you're just sort of
Speaker 2: spun around every single day and you're you're keeping your
Speaker 2: head just above the water until that one score comes.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say break even stretch, Like I was definitely
Speaker 1: making money and I'm also playing cash like I would
Speaker 1: bust this tournament and like I'm jumping straight into two, five, five, ten,
Speaker 1: whatever's going on. But I mean playing low stakes like
Speaker 1: that with like my sort of lifestyle, just like I'm
Speaker 1: not shy about like spending money. It's definitely tough to
Speaker 1: like save anything when you're playing that small and if
Speaker 1: you go on like cold streaks or something like. It's
Speaker 1: not like you just stop spending money, like you have
Speaker 1: to live. Yeah, I mean I was. I was literally
Speaker 1: playing every day all day Like this one eighty was
Speaker 1: at like five or six o'clock. I'm going to the
Speaker 1: casino at eleven am. I'm grinding cash for six seven hours.
Speaker 1: Then I'm gonna eat and jump in the tournament, and
Speaker 1: then after the tournament, I'm gonna play cash a couple
Speaker 1: more hours every day, just like trying to just make
Speaker 1: money as well as like get playing experience, Like I
Speaker 1: fucking love sitting at the table and playing, especially if
Speaker 1: like everyone's talking having a good time.
Speaker 2: I mean, you have to love it. You are that committed,
Speaker 2: and I mean hours wise. The guys who play online,
Speaker 2: you know they'll they'll rival you. You know they play
Speaker 2: every single day too. But the fact that you chose
Speaker 2: this pathway it says a lot about your personality because
Speaker 2: you could have also just found some location where grinding
Speaker 2: online is available and putting the hours there. There's plenty
Speaker 2: of stories of those people. Did it ever cross your
Speaker 2: mind that that would be both a good proving ground,
Speaker 2: a good place to get a lot of volume in
Speaker 2: and perhaps to have, you know, lower expenses and just
Speaker 2: make money that way.
Speaker 1: No, I've never had any interest of playing on the computer.
Speaker 1: I just for me, there's something just about like seeing
Speaker 1: the person and like being there physically and just I
Speaker 1: mean this probably sounds stupid, but just like feeling like
Speaker 1: the vibes of the person and like their energy. Like
Speaker 1: I really think that's like a big thing. Like if
Speaker 1: there's some guy sitting at the table and he's just
Speaker 1: talking about how unlucky he is, Like that's the guy
Speaker 1: I want to be all in against. Like you know,
Speaker 1: I'm sitting next to uh Aram Zobian one day. This
Speaker 1: guy can't lose it all in like the way he's
Speaker 1: tabling his cards, like he just can't lose. Like there's
Speaker 1: just something about energy, and it's like if I have
Speaker 1: a close spot and like he's all in with cards
Speaker 1: to come, like I'm just not gonna take it. And
Speaker 1: then there's like another guy saying like how unlucky he is,
Speaker 1: and there's a close spot where like I could pass,
Speaker 1: I could go with it, like we're gonna run it,
Speaker 1: and like I just really am a big believer in that.
Speaker 1: And for whatever reason, I think it's like true, like
Speaker 1: energy is very real, and I don't think you can
Speaker 1: feel that through like any computer screen.
Speaker 2: Well, on the on the subject of energy, I've been
Speaker 2: around the studio plenty of times where your energy seems
Speaker 2: to be all over the place, and I've I've also
Speaker 2: come across your share of frustration, as you know, you
Speaker 2: get eliminated, or you get bad beat, or you know
Speaker 2: at the final table things don't work out. You also
Speaker 2: live it like you live You live the tournament experience
Speaker 2: in a way that most people would say for a
Speaker 2: professional that's like unhealthy, but you almost seem to like
Speaker 2: need that in order to make it count or make
Speaker 2: you perform at your best when you care that much.
Speaker 1: I think I really lately, I shouldn't even say lately,
Speaker 1: I don't know last year or so, it just so happens.
Speaker 1: Like variance is very real. I've played a handful of
Speaker 1: twenty five k's and all of them but one I've
Speaker 1: been all in pre flop with aces or kings or
Speaker 1: pair over pair, whatever the case is, for like infinite
Speaker 1: chips and just never won, like I've just gotten fucked in,
Speaker 1: like in the biggest like buy in spots of like
Speaker 1: my young poker career in these big binds, and I
Speaker 1: think part of it is like sitting there like come on, hold,
Speaker 1: no King, or like whatever it is where like the
Speaker 1: people that I've lost to just so happened to be
Speaker 1: like easygoing, played like one hundred k's, two hundred k's
Speaker 1: whatever the case may be, and like not that they
Speaker 1: don't care, but like it's just another all in for them,
Speaker 1: no matter the buy in. Where if I'm playing like
Speaker 1: in eleven hundred, like obviously I want to win, but
Speaker 1: like I'm not sweating the runout, like it's not that
Speaker 1: I don't care, it's just like whatever I've done this
Speaker 1: thousands of times. I've only been all in in like
Speaker 1: these really big buy ins for me a few times,
Speaker 1: and like I really wanted to win and for some reason,
Speaker 1: like I've just gotten fucked in pretty much all them.
Speaker 1: Not that like I go in saying like oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm all in with aces again, like I'm so unlucky.
Speaker 1: But rather than just like sitting back and just watching
Speaker 1: the runout in my head, I'm like, no, King, like
Speaker 1: don't fuck me like this again, Like and I don't know,
Speaker 1: there's just something too that I think, so I'm really
Speaker 1: trying hard not to sweat these all ins in these
Speaker 1: bigger buy ins. My mindset, I think is actually very
Speaker 1: bad the way that I think about all ins. Like
Speaker 1: if you're a professional, let's say I'm all in with
Speaker 1: you and I'm eighty percent, you're twenty percent, and like
Speaker 1: I lose. I think the mindset should be like, oh,
Speaker 1: nothing I can do, Like I did my job, like
Speaker 1: onto the next where like that's what really tilts me.
Speaker 1: Where like if I make a mistake, like let's say
Speaker 1: I run a bad bluff, or like I make a
Speaker 1: bad call, like that doesn't tilt me because like that's
Speaker 1: my mistake and like rather than being fucked by the deck,
Speaker 1: like I lost this tournament because I made a bad decision,
Speaker 1: and like I can live with that because I think
Speaker 1: it can be fixed, where I think most pro's mindsets
Speaker 1: are the opposite, or like if it's their mistake, they're
Speaker 1: gonna be pissed off and that's gonna tilt them. Where
Speaker 1: I'm the complete opposite, where like I'm tilted when like
Speaker 1: I did everything good, put myself in a great position
Speaker 1: to get all the chips, and I got fucked. That's
Speaker 1: what like I'll be driving home like fuck this, where
Speaker 1: like if it's my fault, I literally forget about it
Speaker 1: a minute later, like I know I can fix it.
Speaker 1: That's fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's so wild because you do describe exactly
Speaker 2: what most poker pros usually say, where you know it's
Speaker 2: it's it's out of my hands now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm the I mean I think you said you're
Speaker 1: gonna have Chewy on here at some point. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: I'm sure Chewy's very like at peace, like I made
Speaker 1: the right decision, like oh, well, see you again tomorrow,
Speaker 1: where like I'm the complete opposite. And yes, you said
Speaker 1: that you've seen like let's say I get fucked in
Speaker 1: a big hand, I'm like, oh fuck this, Like but
Speaker 1: it's all not that it's a bit right, but it's
Speaker 1: like I'm joking around, like I'm not actually like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I never fucking win this like it I'm
Speaker 1: just fucking around like I'm just I don't know. It's
Speaker 1: like hard on my sleeve, like I'm not actually like
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say I'm not tilted, but I'm not actually
Speaker 1: Like when I say, like when will it end there? Whatever,
Speaker 1: that like that's not real, Like I know I've been
Speaker 1: fortunate in life, you know, like I mean it was
Speaker 1: I don't know, let's say a little less than ten
Speaker 1: years ago. I have a couple thousand dollars to my name,
Speaker 1: like buying in for one hundred dollars, Like now I'm
Speaker 1: playing ten thousand dollars tournaments, you know, so like the
Speaker 1: one will it end? Like I'm very fortunate, and I
Speaker 1: know that.
Speaker 2: It's probably not ending anytime soon. I think you're you're
Speaker 2: you're too committed to the No.
Speaker 1: It does end, like I'm very trying to be positivity.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna win this all, but like when I get fucked,
Speaker 1: like you're gonna know it.
Speaker 2: That's good though, And the one thing people have to
Speaker 2: realize when you're in the studio and and these guys
Speaker 2: are playing on day one, it's Jeremy Becker just leading
Speaker 2: the circus and you're you're walking between the tables, You're
Speaker 2: you're you're engaging with everyone. You've become friends with all
Speaker 2: these guys, and it seems like such a casual atmosphere.
Speaker 2: And that is something that's I think often not understood
Speaker 2: from the outside, is how incredibly casual these ten k
Speaker 2: plus buyings are. Because I also, you know, go to
Speaker 2: Venetian all the time, and it feels like the WSP
Speaker 2: Main Events final table, like on day one of a
Speaker 2: four hundred, and in the studio it looks like I'm
Speaker 2: walking into a home game. What is that about?
Speaker 1: So I think in the studio it's gonna be either
Speaker 1: like you're a very successful poker professional that like just
Speaker 1: plays these ten k's all the time and you're like proven,
Speaker 1: you have investors believing in you to play these tournaments,
Speaker 1: or you just have the money yourself, or you're just
Speaker 1: gonna be like a very well off like businessman that's
Speaker 1: in there like having fun like and those are really
Speaker 1: I can't really think of another player type. Correct me
Speaker 1: if you think otherwise.
Speaker 2: I think you're right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so everyone, all the professionals like have played
Speaker 1: poker long enough, or like when you lose an eighty twenty,
Speaker 1: like no one's gonna slam the table and be like
Speaker 1: what the fuck? How do you call there? Like it's
Speaker 1: literally just like knock on the table, like good game,
Speaker 1: Like I'm fucking rebuyings you soon and it's just laughs.
Speaker 1: Or it's like the rit the wealthy business guy who's like, ah,
Speaker 1: that was a blast. That's poker, like see you guys later,
Speaker 1: where when you go to like Venetian and play like
Speaker 1: an eight hundred or whatever it.
Speaker 2: Is, it's life or death.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, whether it's just people don't have the experience
Speaker 1: to like know just how often the best hand doesn't win,
Speaker 1: or you're playing with the guy who like never wins
Speaker 1: the flip. People are just more miserable generally at lower stakes.
Speaker 1: Like I don't know if it's because the money means
Speaker 1: more relatively or if it's just lack of poker experience
Speaker 1: and not understanding like the total variance in tournament poker
Speaker 1: or what it is. But it's definitely there's no atmosphere
Speaker 1: in the United States like the Poker Ghost studio when
Speaker 1: you're in a tournament. I mean it's not even close.
Speaker 1: It's it's very tough tournaments, like it's big buy ins,
Speaker 1: but everyone's like friendly. There's really nobody. I can't think
Speaker 1: of one person who's just like bad energy. Like you
Speaker 1: can look at someone losing every day and they're just
Speaker 1: gonna be smiling in the studio because like it's such
Speaker 1: a great playing experience where I mean you play like
Speaker 1: a I don't know, win one k Venetian one k,
Speaker 1: Like these places are great, but there's always gonna be
Speaker 1: a couple of people at the table that, like I think,
Speaker 1: have victim mentality, which you cannot win if you have that,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, if I assume you know what I
Speaker 1: mean by that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. And it's funny because the way you
Speaker 2: say it too, is that you sometimes sort of play
Speaker 2: the victim almost as like a meme. But for those people,
Speaker 2: it's like it's like real emotion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I you'll hear me say say like I'll
Speaker 1: get fucked in and all and oh my god, how
Speaker 1: do I never win? But like I'm just joking, Like
Speaker 1: it's like it's fine, that's part of the game. Like
Speaker 1: I'm gonna win some I'm gonna lose some where. Like
Speaker 1: this guy loses Ace King versus Queen's at Venetian and
Speaker 1: he's like, I don't know why I play these fucking
Speaker 1: tournaments comes down to a flip by I never win,
Speaker 1: like and he's being like dead serious and he's probably
Speaker 1: driving home like on the phone with his wife, like
Speaker 1: I'm done with these tournaments. It's such bullshit, Like these
Speaker 1: people are so lucky where like you're just playing poker,
Speaker 1: Like sometimes the math doesn't seem like it's like mathing.
Speaker 1: I'm sure I've said I used to think and in
Speaker 1: these bigger byans, just it just so happens. In like
Speaker 1: these twenty five k's, I can't win when I'm eighty
Speaker 1: percent for a lot of chips. But like I know,
Speaker 1: it's just random, Like I'm not the most unlucky person
Speaker 1: in the world. Like it all generally somewhat evens out
Speaker 1: in the end. I would like to think.
Speaker 2: I'd like to pivot sort of away from the poker
Speaker 2: table a little bit, because you've fostered some friendships that
Speaker 2: start at the poker table, and then you guys take
Speaker 2: that outside of poker. Yeah, and when I was coming
Speaker 2: into poker, that was golf. That's all people talked about.
Speaker 2: Golf here, golf.
Speaker 1: There, big golf game tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Actually, there we go, let's get into it. But also
Speaker 2: the thing that I'm so curious about is the bowling
Speaker 2: because of all the things that I would have guessed
Speaker 2: that you guys would get into, bowling would have been
Speaker 2: super low in the list. I need to hear the
Speaker 2: lure of how the the the high stakes poker community
Speaker 2: became obsessed with bowling. Where did that start?
Speaker 1: It probably was during a poker ghost series. Honestly, just
Speaker 1: you know, you bust out at seventy eight o'clock, you're
Speaker 1: jones in for some action, and I mean, like it's
Speaker 1: dark out, Like what sort of you got a bunch
Speaker 1: of poker players to be I think to be a
Speaker 1: successful like poker tournament player, you have to have some
Speaker 1: sort of like gamble in you. I feel like like
Speaker 1: you have to take like the small edges, like you're
Speaker 1: gonna flip a lot like you can't. I don't think
Speaker 1: there's a poker player playing in like the studio, like
Speaker 1: a successful professional playing high stakes that generally will ever
Speaker 1: be in a spot and be like I don't I
Speaker 1: can't take this flip here, you know, like let me
Speaker 1: just find chips in a better spot. Like that's more
Speaker 1: of like a and I've said shit or thought things
Speaker 1: like this in like a big field, lower stakes tournament
Speaker 1: for sure. M but you just have to have some
Speaker 1: gambling you to play poker tournaments and you bust that.
Speaker 1: Let's say you bust out of a poker go ten
Speaker 1: k twice in a day, and now it's eight o'clock
Speaker 1: and you're fucking steaming, like you want some action, you're
Speaker 1: trying to get some money back. I mean, how many
Speaker 1: like sort of athletic thing, even if it's not athletic,
Speaker 1: just something to like gamble on that you can like
Speaker 1: participate in. Are there, Like there's really not that money.
Speaker 1: It's dark out, so all outside things are pretty much done.
Speaker 1: But it was during one of these series, it was like,
Speaker 1: let's go bowl at Red Rock. Like a bunch of
Speaker 1: people live in Summerland that play these tournaments, and we
Speaker 1: just it really just became a thing. Like the first
Speaker 1: couple of weeks, we're all using house balls, nobody's that good.
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, one or two guys start showing
Speaker 1: up with their own balls play So.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's let's paint this picture here.
Speaker 1: There was betting from day one.
Speaker 2: Okay, betting from day one, But like, describe the scene.
Speaker 2: I've been to Red Rock Bowling, Like you guys just
Speaker 2: like show up, you guys, gotta get a few lanes,
Speaker 2: and you start throwing some balls, and are people already
Speaker 2: trying to hustle and see who's got some talent. And
Speaker 2: then at what point does you know whoever this person
Speaker 2: was show up with their own ball, and you're like, okay,
Speaker 2: now it's on, and now everyone's getting their own stuff.
Speaker 1: So I would actually say, as much as people are
Speaker 1: like gambling, the whole group, which is pretty much like
Speaker 1: Poker Go regulars, for the most part, everyone's friendly, and
Speaker 1: I would say there's a level of trust between everyone
Speaker 1: where like I really don't think anybody would ever like
Speaker 1: hustle anybody in this group. Like it's not like you
Speaker 1: hear that story where these guys are swapping in the
Speaker 1: tournament in the old days, but like one of them
Speaker 1: didn't even join the tournament, the other already busted. Like
Speaker 1: nobody's like trying to like angle anybody out of money.
Speaker 1: Like there's a lot of trust. I would say everyone generally,
Speaker 1: like has been bowling before, so would have some sort
Speaker 1: of estimate of what they're gonna get. And originally we'd
Speaker 1: have a sheet pen and paper. We'd make random teams
Speaker 1: using an Orang like random number generator, like let's say
Speaker 1: four highest numbers on one team, four lowest, and we'd
Speaker 1: handicap our scores, like what do you think you're gonna get?
Speaker 1: And then let's say, like my handicap is one eighty
Speaker 1: and I bowl like a one eighty three, I'd be
Speaker 1: plus three for the team. Right is how it initially started.
Speaker 2: And who's who's in the core bowling group? Which players?
Speaker 1: Well, now it's like twenty people.
Speaker 2: Let's let's let's hear something.
Speaker 1: Let's say uh, I mean, do you want to just
Speaker 1: say some if you? Pretty much? I don't want to
Speaker 1: say everyone. I don't know twenty guys that play poker
Speaker 1: go every day. Like, Uh, let's say Nick Seward, Michael Burke,
Speaker 1: Jesse Lonis, Bucky, Nick Schulman, Chewy, Eric Baldwin, Miles Malally,
Speaker 1: Jim Collapee. Uh, you could dish out some names. I
Speaker 1: mean there's twenty and I named nine.
Speaker 2: It's already a phenomenal crew.
Speaker 1: I mean, oh my god, I'm drawing a blank. But everybody,
Speaker 1: Darren Rabinowitz, Danny Cepiel, you got any names from me?
Speaker 1: I'm sure they're there.
Speaker 2: I've never been invited, but I'd left to come watch
Speaker 2: to say a.
Speaker 1: G to the chat. I mean, it's literally nineteen or
Speaker 1: twenty names.
Speaker 2: I'm just so you guys started with like teams with
Speaker 2: with your hands.
Speaker 1: Started random teams. We'd have our handicaps and uh, if
Speaker 1: you beat your handicap, your plus that amount for the team.
Speaker 1: It was initially it was like five hundred a man
Speaker 1: on teams, but then obviously their side action. You know,
Speaker 1: you got me and Jesse there, and Jesse's like, who
Speaker 1: wants to bet me? Individually? And like we both grew
Speaker 1: up like athletes playing sports. Like I'm not gonna say no,
Speaker 1: like a clue, how is he gonna beat me? So like,
Speaker 1: let's say my handp is like five better than him,
Speaker 1: I'm spotting him five. So we also will have that bet,
Speaker 1: and then everybody just man literally, everybody just bets everybody.
Speaker 1: It's pretty uh.
Speaker 2: How loud does it get.
Speaker 1: When me or Burke get a strike? The whole bowling
Speaker 1: alley hears it? For sure, I would say. Then it
Speaker 1: became I'm not gonna name their name, but somebody thought,
Speaker 1: you know what, there's so much action getting down, like
Speaker 1: let's really make this uh, let's really make this legit. Well,
Speaker 1: we are in the league. But also, oh hold on,
Speaker 1: I didn't name Ryan Reese before he fucking bowled the
Speaker 1: perfect Game. So Ryan Reese is there.
Speaker 2: Where there's some multipliers attached to the payout that he received.
Speaker 1: I'll say, luckily, I wasn't there that night, but a
Speaker 1: lot of side actions. Somebody created like a bowling sports
Speaker 1: book where oh yeah, and also the handicaps were adjusted
Speaker 1: each game. So let's say someone, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: you just bowl with everybody. We'd get a few oh
Speaker 1: sean Winter, big bowler. You just see how everyone's bowling,
Speaker 1: and the handicaps get adjusted, so it's always fair. Sam
Speaker 1: Laskwitz is there. I'm just popping out these names that
Speaker 1: I forgot. Nobody's hustling anybody. It's all very fair, zero
Speaker 1: ev gambling and uh. But somebody created a bowling book
Speaker 1: where everyone has like an over under. David Coleman was there.
Speaker 1: You have an over under. You have matchups. So like
Speaker 1: Ryan being the best bowler, let's say he's versing like, oh,
Speaker 1: big Hooney. Let's say he's versing Big Hooney, right this,
Speaker 1: Actually I'm not going to say who someone got buried
Speaker 1: on a game like this. Ryan Reese is like a
Speaker 1: minus six hundred favorite versus Hooney straight up, Like you
Speaker 1: can also bet on Hooney plus five hundred or whatever
Speaker 1: with this guy who's making the book. Somebody took Ryan
Speaker 1: pretty big one game and it did not work out
Speaker 1: for them. Wow, So you can just bet on anything
Speaker 1: at the bowling alley. And it became really big, and
Speaker 1: bowling just became a thing like I don't want to
Speaker 1: say every night, but a few times a week where
Speaker 1: just after the tournaments, if people have busted, still looking
Speaker 1: for action, like we're going to the bowling alley, Like
Speaker 1: we're having a good time at the bowling alley. Bowling betting.
Speaker 1: It got so big that people that were still in
Speaker 1: the tournament or have a wife or something and couldn't
Speaker 1: get out of the house that night. We were live
Speaker 1: streaming it, so you can still get action down on
Speaker 1: the book if you weren't there betting on whoever. And
Speaker 1: it just yeah, it became like a really big thing.
Speaker 2: That's incredible. So do you go out and like when
Speaker 2: there's no bowling night, you go out and throw some
Speaker 2: balls just to stay sharp?
Speaker 1: Me personally, I don't do that. It's just like I
Speaker 1: don't know. I just have a fun time going with
Speaker 1: my friends, like betting on team versus team or myself
Speaker 1: versus them. But there are definitely some guys I'm not
Speaker 1: going to call them out who have like gotten lessons
Speaker 1: like wow, Yeah, people people try about their money.
Speaker 2: It starts to look like the golf of the early
Speaker 2: two thousands, you know, and before.
Speaker 1: Now everybody is much better now than we were at
Speaker 1: the start. Everyone you see us walking into the bowling alley,
Speaker 1: Everyone's wheeling in their balls, everyone's got shoes like it's
Speaker 1: like reservoir. It's honestly like funny. I mean I used
Speaker 1: to if you asked me, like a year ago, like oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: Jesse's walking into a bowling alley with his own ball,
Speaker 1: I'd be like, what are you talking about, Like, no,
Speaker 1: he's not stop, Like I wouldn't believe it. And now
Speaker 1: every single person has their own stuff and like they're
Speaker 1: really into it. I mean, a new ball is coming
Speaker 1: out that they think is gonna get them ten pins.
Speaker 1: More like they're gonna get it. I promise.
Speaker 2: This is incredible. This is honestly one of my favorite
Speaker 2: sort of side shows when I'm at the studio and
Speaker 2: I just like, over here, yeah, a lot of bowling talk,
Speaker 2: bowling talk. Yeah, and first I thought you guys were kidding,
Speaker 2: and it's actually legit.
Speaker 1: It is for real.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it. Well, hopefully we'll get some footage
Speaker 2: of that one day. I'm sure there's lots of footage
Speaker 2: that we can't use because there's some Shenanigan's happening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of a lot of stuff, maybe not
Speaker 1: for TV going on out there.
Speaker 2: It is. It is fantastic how you guys like have
Speaker 2: built like a big camaraderie even though you guys battle
Speaker 2: each other for thin edges at the poker table.
Speaker 1: It really is crazy to think about because we're playing
Speaker 1: like these big buy in tournaments. It's our job to play.
Speaker 1: We want to beat each other, but like off the table,
Speaker 1: even on the table like friendly wise like everyone I
Speaker 1: don't know, everybody just gets along and it's much better
Speaker 1: this way. I mean, if we didn't like each other,
Speaker 1: it would be sitting at the table like at the Venetian,
Speaker 1: maybe no one would be talking. Instead we're at the
Speaker 1: table having a good time, like talking shit like I mean,
Speaker 1: someone makes like a bad call on the river or
Speaker 1: something and double someone up like you might hear like
Speaker 1: someone throwing like a good call like jokingly, just like
Speaker 1: and it really does make it way more fun. But
Speaker 1: it is crazy to like think about, like we're playing
Speaker 1: these guys for so much money, but we all really
Speaker 1: want to see each other do well, is it possible
Speaker 1: for everyone to do well. Like, I don't know in
Speaker 1: the long run, but like I'm not gonna ever anti
Speaker 1: sweat somebody that I'm like friends with, Like obviously I
Speaker 1: want to beat them, but if I'm not like at
Speaker 1: the table against them, like I want to see them
Speaker 1: do well.
Speaker 2: Truly, where do you feel like And this is maybe
Speaker 2: a little bit of a hard pivot, but where do
Speaker 2: you feel like you stand in sort of that PGT hierarchy?
Speaker 2: You know, the PGT probably the best way to sort
Speaker 2: of look at who's doing a year round, who's who's
Speaker 2: going to the places to you know, gather points. And
Speaker 2: the reason I say this is because you said in
Speaker 2: the twenty five ks you haven't been that lucky yet.
Speaker 2: But it also shows me that you want to make
Speaker 2: more of an effort to play those and take those chances.
Speaker 2: So where do you feel Where do you feel like
Speaker 2: you stand right now within that ecosystem? And are there
Speaker 2: next steps to take? Is there is there a vision
Speaker 2: for where you want to ultimately? And because to me,
Speaker 2: the comfort level that you've now sort of created for
Speaker 2: yourself in the studio just means that this is now
Speaker 2: the life for however long you're able to do this,
Speaker 2: But how do you see that?
Speaker 1: I would say, like if I sit down at any
Speaker 1: like big field event, like I'm gonna think I'm like
Speaker 1: one of the best in the tournament for sure when
Speaker 1: you come to the studio, like it's everybody is good
Speaker 1: for the most part, and I think I try to
Speaker 1: portray like not like I'm hustling or something, but like
Speaker 1: I like, I don't know if I've done it, but
Speaker 1: I like to think that I have like a pretty
Speaker 1: uh not whally but more so like just a I
Speaker 1: don't give a fuck like attitude, and I think that
Speaker 1: suits me well and like there's some truth to it.
Speaker 1: But like I wouldn't be sitting at the table if
Speaker 1: like I thought I was losing money, you know, like
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, like poke my job
Speaker 1: and I'll sit at a table with pretty much anyone
Speaker 1: and feel like I'm winning and I've had some success.
Speaker 1: And I shouldn't say some success like I've done very
Speaker 1: well and I hope to only improve now. I would
Speaker 1: say generally, how I approach like a poker go series
Speaker 1: is pretty much anything ten K and under like if
Speaker 1: I'm in town, I'm gonna be playing the only way
Speaker 1: not is let's say like I'm borking out a series
Speaker 1: so far, and maybe there's some like big field like
Speaker 1: sixteen hundred at like Winter Venetian and I've just had
Speaker 1: a bad series, like maybe I would skip the last
Speaker 1: couple ten k's or something to play that, but generally,
Speaker 1: like I'd much prefer to just be in all the
Speaker 1: ten ks and under and it's my favorite place to play.
Speaker 1: I'm winning there, like I've done well, and I also
Speaker 1: think like in some pretty big spots I've gotten unlucky,
Speaker 1: so like I think I should even be like winning more.
Speaker 1: But when it comes to higher than ten k, it's
Speaker 1: really like if I'm having a good series, like sure,
Speaker 1: I'll fire it, but like if I'm not, I'm not
Speaker 1: just gonna automatically sit just because like I don't know,
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm very like financially responsible where I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna like just if I'm not feeling great, like
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna play something above ten k where like
Speaker 1: when I sit out a ten K and look around,
Speaker 1: like I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna win today. So hopefully
Speaker 1: like in the future that ten K goes up to
Speaker 1: like twenty five K or fifty k, where like if
Speaker 1: it's running, I'm in, you know, at this time, like
Speaker 1: I feel very comfortable ten k and under, and uh yeah,
Speaker 1: hopefully I feel the same about bigger buyings in the future.
Speaker 2: It's funny you say financially responsible because to many who
Speaker 2: would listen to you talk about gambling on bowling and
Speaker 2: having this sort of you know, sale of the attitude
Speaker 2: about poker from time to time, uh, sort of tied
Speaker 2: into you bringing up the fact that you've always left gambling.
Speaker 2: You guys are throwing dice. There's the famous story and
Speaker 2: you can get into it about how blackcheck and sort
Speaker 2: of nearly ended you financially. So has that been a
Speaker 2: lessons learned? Have you always been conservative but you allow
Speaker 2: yourself to sort of step outside of that? How do
Speaker 2: you how do you approach that? Because you also mentioned,
Speaker 2: you know, Josh and Daniel investing in you, So there's
Speaker 2: a lot of things coming together here all at the
Speaker 2: same time. How do you how do you juggle that? Well?
Speaker 1: I would say before, like I was not financially set,
Speaker 1: but like before I ever had like I don't know,
Speaker 1: like real money, where like I don't need to worry
Speaker 1: about like rent for like a month or something like
Speaker 1: I would have bankroll on table at any point or
Speaker 1: like now that I'm way more comfortable and like have
Speaker 1: a like money in the bank where like I'm not
Speaker 1: worrying about like paying my bills or anything. I never
Speaker 1: want that to change, So I would say I'm definitely
Speaker 1: more responsible now we're in the past, Like I could
Speaker 1: just be broke the next day, so I never want
Speaker 1: that to ever be a thing again. So I would
Speaker 1: say also, like I don't have like I said, like
Speaker 1: I don't come from money, Like there's no like backup,
Speaker 1: Like if poker doesn't work out, It's not like I'm
Speaker 1: going to like work for some family business, Like there
Speaker 1: is no backup. So I can't like just lose everything
Speaker 1: that I have and like feel like it's gonna be
Speaker 1: okay because it probably wouldn't be so.
Speaker 2: And then the Blackjack story real quick, yeah, might that
Speaker 2: have been a bit of a turning point and explain
Speaker 2: what happened there.
Speaker 1: So this was like right after college, I graduated, I
Speaker 1: went back to New York for like ten to eleven months,
Speaker 1: and then I got a place in Florida on my own,
Speaker 1: and I want to say I lost like almost eighty
Speaker 1: percent of what I had within like the first month,
Speaker 1: Like dabbling in blackjack, like I just randomly played one
Speaker 1: night after winning huge in a cash session and just
Speaker 1: got buried and was chasing it for like a week
Speaker 1: and just kept digging myself a deeper hole and then
Speaker 1: had to like drop down in stakes, and uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was brutal. And I didn't touch a blackjack table
Speaker 1: or really anything in the pit for the longest time.
Speaker 1: And I would say, now, actually not when like poker
Speaker 1: is going on, but like when there's really no poker,
Speaker 1: Like let's say we're bowling, me and a couple guys
Speaker 1: might try to hit them hard at the blackjack table
Speaker 1: and try to spin it up, but like it's really
Speaker 1: just like a fun thing to do with friends for entertainment,
Speaker 1: like I'm trying to grind, like I'm not chasing any
Speaker 1: sort of money. Like, so, like I can play from
Speaker 1: time to time now, but it's way different. Like I
Speaker 1: didn't play for fucking years because like I was scared,
Speaker 1: like I would just lose all my fucking money again.
Speaker 1: And honestly, it was one of the greatest things that
Speaker 1: ever happened to me because I was able to like
Speaker 1: treat poker more so as like a job and uh
Speaker 1: put money away and not blow it in the pit.
Speaker 1: Where now like I would say, like maybe I have
Speaker 1: a little like gambling stash and after bowling me and
Speaker 1: a couple guys might be like, let's fucking get them
Speaker 1: tonight and we'll just chop the action three or four
Speaker 1: ways and just like play some blackjack. But it's totally
Speaker 1: for fun and it's rare, and yes, so I shouldn't
Speaker 1: say like I'll never play again, but it's a different
Speaker 1: type of play, right.
Speaker 2: So then the progression as far as buying levels go,
Speaker 2: did you need that support from Daniel and Josh to
Speaker 2: accomplish that? Were you so comfortable that there was really
Speaker 2: no need to move up or was there an urge
Speaker 2: to perhaps try and battle those guys and that support
Speaker 2: was necessary to feel comfortable.
Speaker 1: Like as far as ten k's and what not going. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I would say initially when me and Daniel started,
Speaker 1: or me Daniel and Josh, it was just for the
Speaker 1: world series. This was I believe it was my first
Speaker 1: year here years ago, and I'd always talk to like
Speaker 1: mid Steaks friends that I had who were backed, and
Speaker 1: just all of them were in the same headspace like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, if I win this, I don't even
Speaker 1: get any money. Like they all just sounded like they
Speaker 1: weren't like having a great time with the whole backing,
Speaker 1: So I was almost like not super excited to get
Speaker 1: into it. But like this is Daniel Legrand who and
Speaker 1: josh Aria like a month gonna be like, oh, actually,
Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm gonna stick to my two hundreds and
Speaker 1: four hundreds this summer. So initially, it like how backing
Speaker 1: works is let's say, like you play a two K
Speaker 1: and you lose, like your two K makeup and like
Speaker 1: you're always in makeup, Like you lose one tournament, you're
Speaker 1: now in makeup and then whenever you're up. So let's
Speaker 1: say the next tournament's a one K and I cash
Speaker 1: for five. We're in for three K, so I would
Speaker 1: pay back the three and then you chop the remaining
Speaker 1: two is how it works, and now you're back to zero.
Speaker 1: So I'd say, initially, like I don't know, I would
Speaker 1: be in like I remember I was like twenty seven
Speaker 1: hundred dollars in makeup, which is literally nothing like less
Speaker 1: than a buy and now and I would be like,
Speaker 1: oh my God, the second I get even like I'm
Speaker 1: out of here, like I can't do this. And so
Speaker 1: that first summer I was a little like iffy about
Speaker 1: it and I didn't love it. And after the summer
Speaker 1: he offered me to like continue it, and I was like, uh,
Speaker 1: you know what, I appreciate it so much, but like,
Speaker 1: I just don't think it's for me, Like it was
Speaker 1: just kind of messing with me mentally. I was almost
Speaker 1: scared to play my game and potentially bust because I
Speaker 1: didn't want, like to be another one thousand dollars in makeup.
Speaker 1: A few months passed by, I think it was about
Speaker 1: to be like people were bringing up like the Wind
Speaker 1: December and like all these great events that were gonna
Speaker 1: be and I'm like looking and I'm seeing I don't
Speaker 1: really remember what my banker was at the time, but
Speaker 1: I'm like, man, you know, it'd be nice to have
Speaker 1: that backing right now. So I texted Daniel and Josh
Speaker 1: again like a few months later and was like, hey, uh,
Speaker 1: like can we continue, Like can is this offer still good?
Speaker 1: And Uh, Luckily for me, they were still down with it,
Speaker 1: and we've just continued ever since, and it's just really
Speaker 1: nice knowing Like let's say I would play like a
Speaker 1: ten k, which would be super rare. Like let's say
Speaker 1: it's like the main event. I don't know, my friends
Speaker 1: would have like five percent each, like I would probably
Speaker 1: only play like one bullet, Like I'm trying to be responsible,
Speaker 1: and I mean, if you're in a tournament that like
Speaker 1: you're not comfortable potentially rebuying, Like I just truly think
Speaker 1: unless it's like a freeze out, like you're just drawing dead,
Speaker 1: like you can't be scared to bust. Like sometimes like
Speaker 1: going for this bluff or like being all in in
Speaker 1: this spot is just the right move, and if it
Speaker 1: doesn't work out, like you have to be willing to
Speaker 1: try again. The first poker Go tournament that I won,
Speaker 1: it was a ten k for two hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: five thousand, and like I remember just running some like
Speaker 1: absurd bluff. I want to say. It was like while
Speaker 1: registration was open for like stacks and luckily he folded
Speaker 1: the river and it was like pretty pivotal for me
Speaker 1: because I got short near the bubble. But like you
Speaker 1: need chips to like win tournaments, so you need to
Speaker 1: like chip up or else, like you're you're gonna lose
Speaker 1: all ends, so you want to when you do lose,
Speaker 1: you want to still be in the tournament. But I
Speaker 1: just remember, like let's say I was playing this on
Speaker 1: my own, like I would not have won for this bluff,
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't have had the chips to like survive
Speaker 1: the bubble and then like later win the tournament. But
Speaker 1: me knowing, like, Okay, if this doesn't work out, like
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna rebuy, Like I think that's very crucial,
Speaker 1: Like it's I think it's an advantage having a lot
Speaker 1: of money behind you where they trust your game and
Speaker 1: like you can just rebuy if it doesn't work out,
Speaker 1: like that's okay, you don't need to worry about, Oh
Speaker 1: this guy had five percent, Like is he in for
Speaker 1: a second bullet? Like oh fuck, do I really want
Speaker 1: to rebuy? Like my bills are so expensive, like I
Speaker 1: could use this ten k, Like I just don't think
Speaker 1: you can win like this long term if you're thinking
Speaker 1: like that. So for me to have Daniel and Josh
Speaker 1: behind me with a very good amount of money, I
Speaker 1: would think, and them trusting like my thought process and
Speaker 1: playing like I think that's crucial for me, And I
Speaker 1: definitely would not have the success that I've had in
Speaker 1: like mid and high stakes.
Speaker 2: What do you think it initially was that made Daniel
Speaker 2: believe in you? Because obviously there was the big battle
Speaker 2: you and Lennon Tice, the studying versus more the sort
Speaker 2: of live player approach, if you want to put it
Speaker 2: that way, But do you think there was a specific
Speaker 2: conversation you had or specific moments that made him sort
Speaker 2: of think like, oh, Jeremy is the guy I have
Speaker 2: to get behind because in a way.
Speaker 1: Well, this the bet with Landon was a year after
Speaker 1: I'd already been with Daniel and Josh, which I think
Speaker 1: people don't know. So I mean I used to, like
Speaker 1: we still do now. But it's obviously you know, Daniel's
Speaker 1: super into like golfing, and he was playing way more
Speaker 1: when we started. We used to talk fucking poker hands,
Speaker 1: any like spot that I had or even they had,
Speaker 1: Like we would just text in a group chat and
Speaker 1: get each other's opinions, and I think just doing that
Speaker 1: for like a year made him like believe in my
Speaker 1: thought process and whatnot.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because I also assumed that the land and
Speaker 2: things sort of kicked all this stuff off, But it
Speaker 2: was actually it.
Speaker 1: Was a year prior. Yeah, I want a bunch of
Speaker 1: like those lower by ins at winn in Venetian and
Speaker 1: they would post your winner's photo. And so I have
Speaker 1: a theory that I don't even know is true. Daniel
Speaker 1: tweeted like, oh my god, is this kid like the
Speaker 1: next like big thing in poker, Like I know it's
Speaker 1: low buy ins, but this is like unheard of or
Speaker 1: whatever the tweet was. But what I found out later
Speaker 1: was I believe Josh was the best man at his
Speaker 1: friend's wedding who I had played a decent amount of
Speaker 1: cash with in Florida, and I didn't know this. I
Speaker 1: found this out later, or maybe the other way around.
Speaker 1: The guy was the best man at Josh's wedding something
Speaker 1: like this. And I'm gonna assume they did some sort
Speaker 1: of background information on me, like whether it's talking with
Speaker 1: people I've played with about like my character or my
Speaker 1: play or whatever it was, because I mean right away
Speaker 1: when me and Daniel started, The first time I met
Speaker 1: him was when he like dropped me off money for
Speaker 1: the World series and like it was a decent amount
Speaker 1: of money, like this is big trust, Like who's to
Speaker 1: say I'm not taking this fucking money and just getting
Speaker 1: out of town or something, you know, and like no
Speaker 1: questions on Like initially, I think I could play like
Speaker 1: I don't remember, maybe it was like five kN under
Speaker 1: or something, just no questions asked, and if I wanted
Speaker 1: to play like a ten to ask them where, I mean,
Speaker 1: you got to have a lot of trust, I would think.
Speaker 1: And we just texted, we were called. We hadn't like
Speaker 1: met yet. Yeah, so I'm gonna assume they like did
Speaker 1: their due diligence behind the scenes. So my theory is
Speaker 1: that like Josh set all of this up and knew
Speaker 1: that I wouldn't be able to like say no to
Speaker 1: Daniel because they're like great friends, business partners, whatever it
Speaker 1: may be. But honestly, I've never even talked to them
Speaker 1: about it, so I don't know, like what made Daniel
Speaker 1: put out that tweet and get in contact with me.
Speaker 2: It's so fascinating how you sort of paved your own
Speaker 2: way with those results. You got noticed, and you didn't
Speaker 2: just get noticed by, you know, a random scout on
Speaker 2: the sidelines. No, it was like Dane Legrano. Yeah, maybe
Speaker 2: maybe whether it was through Josh or not, they were
Speaker 2: obviously like very close friends. But if you sort of
Speaker 2: think back of your maybe your poker fan self back
Speaker 2: in the day to then land in that position, it
Speaker 2: must be pretty surreal.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean I've remember I didn't believe it. I
Speaker 1: was playing basketball. I'd only been in Vegas like a
Speaker 1: month or two before, like he contacted me, and I
Speaker 1: remember I finished playing and I looked at my phone
Speaker 1: and I had like all these messages for multiple people
Speaker 1: being like did you see Daniel's tweet? And like I thought,
Speaker 1: like someone's running some sort of bit on me, Like
Speaker 1: I didn't understand, Like what are you talking about? They
Speaker 1: were like look, and he basically said what I said
Speaker 1: before about it being like impressive, and.
Speaker 2: Uh, I remember the tweet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he offered me like a stake for the WSOP,
Speaker 1: which was like a month or two later, and we
Speaker 1: just like talked before then and got comfortable with each other,
Speaker 1: I think, And yeah, I mean the rest is history,
Speaker 1: and gladly it's really worked out. And I mean if
Speaker 1: I came to Vegas playing two and four hundred dollars
Speaker 1: tournaments like literally just trying to get by, and now like,
Speaker 1: for instance, I'm playing golf with Daniel, Josh and Danny
Speaker 1: Cpeel to we're gonna be gambling, I'm sure, and like
Speaker 1: then the World Series is coming up and I could
Speaker 1: pretty much play any event I want in part to
Speaker 1: Daniel and Josh. And it's like if you told me
Speaker 1: this a few years ago, like it truly wouldn't even
Speaker 1: be believable, like I would I'd be like a good one,
Speaker 1: like see you at the win six hundred like, but
Speaker 1: now like I can just play a ten k and
Speaker 1: I'm golfing with fucking Daniel and Josh, who when I
Speaker 1: was getting into poker, I'm watching them on fucking TV
Speaker 1: playing and uh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's also that's also established for the viewers at
Speaker 2: home that you are probably talking just as much shit
Speaker 2: to Daniel and Josh on the golf course or at
Speaker 2: the poker table, because you know, you're, you're, you're friends
Speaker 2: with these guys. Now it's it's no longer that you
Speaker 2: know they are somewhere out there and you're you're, you
Speaker 2: know this guy who is just getting started, you like
Speaker 2: you're you're one of the guys.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean obviously I'm not like in their class,
Speaker 1: like their careers, like they're like Poker Hall of famers,
Speaker 1: like I've said it a bunch, like I think the
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan of poker, you know, so like obviously nowhere
Speaker 1: like near that status, but yeah, like it's not crazy
Speaker 1: that like I can sit in a golf cart with
Speaker 1: Daniel and like just be talking about life with him,
Speaker 1: Like we're like somewhat like business partners, I would say,
Speaker 1: and like also friends, like we if I ever needed something,
Speaker 1: like whether it's financial or like just about life, like
Speaker 1: I believe that he would be there for me. And
Speaker 1: like that's just crazy to think about because he's like
Speaker 1: when I was getting into poker, like watching him was
Speaker 1: like I'm very into basketball, would be like watching Michael Jordan.
Speaker 1: Like I can't imagine like being like this with Michael Jordan,
Speaker 1: And it's really the same thing. It's uh crazy that
Speaker 1: I have him as a person to like just be
Speaker 1: with me along the way and help me out, Like
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be in the position I am without him,
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 2: I want to wrap up with this, and it's been
Speaker 2: super interesting conversation. But with how you seemingly have unlocked
Speaker 2: something new every single year or made some sort of progression,
Speaker 2: where do you see this going? Where do you want
Speaker 2: this to go, do you see yourself as like a
Speaker 2: lifer in this world? Your passion for the game, you know,
Speaker 2: has almost no equal because of how much time you
Speaker 2: put in at the live felt, which not many people
Speaker 2: can stomach for that many years. So how does the
Speaker 2: the poker life of Jeremy Becker revolve from here on out?
Speaker 1: I would say, and I've definitely made an effort to
Speaker 1: do this in playing much less low stakes poker, really
Speaker 1: making an effort to play just like the good mid
Speaker 1: steak stuff and higher buy and stuff, because I truly do,
Speaker 1: like want to be one of the best at this level.
Speaker 1: And to me, like, I think experience is worth a
Speaker 1: ton and that's really the only way I'm going to
Speaker 1: be able to do it. People used to ask me,
Speaker 1: let's say, like a year ago, oh, do you see
Speaker 1: yourself like going to like an EPT or going to
Speaker 1: like Triden just basically like traveling the world playing And
Speaker 1: I was like, no, Like, dude, i live two minutes
Speaker 1: from the casino in Vegas, Like I'm just gonna play
Speaker 1: sports like gamble on some basketball like and play poker.
Speaker 1: And now like like I could see myself playing Trident's
Speaker 1: one day or going to like Barcelona for like a
Speaker 1: big series. Like I've never really cared what people think,
Speaker 1: and I really do try to like portray like not
Speaker 1: a whaling mentality, but just like, oh, I don't care,
Speaker 1: how like I don't fucking know what these charts say,
Speaker 1: and like that's true, but like I don't know, let's say,
Speaker 1: in like twenty thirty years, like I would like to
Speaker 1: be talked about as like one of the best poker
Speaker 1: players there were, and I think to do that, like
Speaker 1: I just need to play bigger and bigger, and uh
Speaker 1: obviously I would like to uh get like rich rich
Speaker 1: from poker. That would be great, like playing a fucking
Speaker 1: game that I love. But yeah, like I'm not trying
Speaker 1: to just hit and run poker, make millions and then
Speaker 1: just like leave on some island. Like I'm trying to
Speaker 1: make all that money so that I can play bigger
Speaker 1: and bigger tournaments basically just like reinvesting in myself on
Speaker 1: the poker table. And uh so, yeah, I just want
Speaker 1: to play more high stakes poker and almost have a
Speaker 1: reputation in these fields like I do in like mid
Speaker 1: steaks low stakes fields.
Speaker 2: I just want to go on the record here that
Speaker 2: I want to purchase the rights to Jeremy Becker goes
Speaker 2: to Europe if that becomes a documentary, because that would
Speaker 2: be a phenomenal watch.
Speaker 1: There'd be some material there.
Speaker 2: We might have to put it behind the paywall for it.
Speaker 1: I mean, if I'm sitting at the table with some
Speaker 1: euro who's fucking waiting till one second on the clock
Speaker 1: left to make every action, He's gonna hear it from me. Like,
Speaker 1: as much as I try to be nice and friendly
Speaker 1: with everyone, the unnecessary tanking is not for me. And
Speaker 1: apparently there's a lot of that out there.
Speaker 2: So well, you did not hesitate for one second answer
Speaker 2: any of these questions. I really appreciate it, Jeremy Becker.
Speaker 2: It's been a pleasure having you on the show the
Speaker 2: very first In this series, we'll have weekly episodes like Subscribe,
Speaker 2: leave a common to all that good stuff follow Jeremy
Speaker 2: on socials, will have links in the description. And all
Speaker 2: that rests me to say, is you know, go win
Speaker 2: a bracelet or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope. So I'm gonna have a good amount
Speaker 1: of money down on myself this summer.
Speaker 2: I'm going to prop bets, side bets. What's what's going on?
Speaker 1: Yeah, just I'm into the whole fantasy league that Daniel runs.
Speaker 1: I'll have some side bets on myself, just like winning
Speaker 1: a bracelet versus others. Every year I've said, like I mean,
Speaker 1: I say every year, it's been three years, like, oh,
Speaker 1: I want to play wsop, and then a couple of
Speaker 1: days in I'm like, okay, I'm going to the win,
Speaker 1: just like the whole playing experience, but now I'm playing bigger.
Speaker 1: They have the app. You're not waiting around on these
Speaker 1: lines like you were. Generally you get better like dealers
Speaker 1: in the higher buyings and fantasy points. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be chasing it as well as money obviously.
Speaker 2: So what's the worth of wind to bracelet as outside
Speaker 2: of the tournament payout? What do we got going here?
Speaker 1: I really am not too sure yet. We're a little
Speaker 1: over a week away, but it's gonna be worth a lot,
Speaker 1: but not even just for like that, like I want
Speaker 1: to win it, like for me and like Daniel and
Speaker 1: Josh and just like like I'm gonna be very committed
Speaker 1: to WSOP this summer and I'm gonna put my money
Speaker 1: where my mouth is and try to back it up
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty six Bracelet or Jeremy Becker. Thanks for coming,
Speaker 2: Thanks for watching,