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Speaker 1: You just have to have some gambling you to play

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poker tournaments. Like there's no like backup, Like if poker

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doesn't work out, it's not like I'm gonna like work

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for some family business, like there is no backup.

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Speaker 2: Hey, this is Remco. Thanks for clicking on the video.

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This is my brand new podcast called Face the Ace,

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in which I talked to the most interesting people in

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poker and go a little deeper into the topics you

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most care about. Enjoy one person I've never had on

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the podcast because you weren't big time yet back when

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I was doing shows, mister Jeremy Becker. Jeremy, welcome to

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the show. Thanks for having me pleasure to have you

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here on the show. We got a ton to dive into.

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It's called the human side of poker, and I figured

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the most human of them all who claims that the

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computers might not be as necessary might just be you.

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Do you think that among the crowd of players you

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move around in that's correct?

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Speaker 1: I could maybe think of one other person possibly that's

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not into the whole computer solver stuff. I don't even

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know if it's widely known, so I don't really want

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to put them out there, but yeah, I think pretty

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much everyone is into it except me.

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Speaker 2: So as far as that style or that approach to

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a game that generally is now seen as solved or

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a game that's seen as you know, too tough to

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beat without those tools, was it an active decision? Are you?

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Are you now just resisting and holding on? Are you

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perhaps tempted to dive into it sooner than later?

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Speaker 1: I would say it's a bit tempting, just because, like now,

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being surrounded by these people, I kind of see like

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just how good they are, and a big reason is

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because of how hard they study and whatnot. But I

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don't really think for me personally, just like my style,

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getting into that would do me much good. I think

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I would lose some of the stuff that I do

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well and maybe become like a worse version of them.

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So for me, I think I'm just really holding off, honestly.

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Speaker 2: So when you learn, I'm assuming it's a lot through

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observing and seeing how people approach certain things. It almost

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must mean that you pick up on certain things stylistically

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that they have learned from studying and you learned from observing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say I definitely have a good idea

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of how the solver like thinks through hands, just from

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like talking poker hands with my friends who do study them,

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but like me personally, like I've never pulled one up

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on the computer or anything like this, but I would

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say from like playing against them and talking with them

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through hands, like I have some sort of idea of

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like what sort of hands want to do certain things

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on different board textures and whatnot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So the accomplishments that you've had so far, in

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my opinion, are even more impressive when you're not utilizing

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basically the full array of of what is out there

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right now. For the people that are watching this, by

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the way, we are on video and we're also on

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audio feeds for those that like to listen to this

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as they walk the dog or do chores at home.

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This gentleman five point three million in career earnings. And

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I'm a huge hend and mob nerd. I've always been

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a hand and mob nerd. And one of the things

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I always love to look at is what's the biggest

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live cash in relation to the total earnings, because it

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says it a little bit about you know, how did

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that person get there? You win the main event for

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ten million, and you got eleven million in earnings. You know, then,

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what have you really done for me lately? But in

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your case, for the longest time, your biggest cash was

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less than ten percent of your total earnings. You have

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almost six hundred live results in tournament buyings going down

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as low as free roles. I almost want to say,

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like you play literally everything, and that I think says

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something perhaps that's even more important than a player's app

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to have to study. Is your appetite to put in

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the hours, grind, have the discipline to keep showing up

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day after day. Do you think that is a quality

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in and of itself and do you think that that

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is something that you utilize for your success.

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Speaker 1: I think that there's this term. Actually I've been hearing

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a lot lady like a pub stomper. Do you know

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have any idea? So it's basically like how somebody plays

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against like the recreational player, or like sort of like

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fish and big fields, if you will. And I think

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in like these lower but like for instance, during the summer,

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like the fifteen hundred monster stack or something like. I

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think certain players who like theoretically maybe aren't like in

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quotes like a good poker player just do really well

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in these sorts of fields, and I think those are

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the type of people that I played and because my

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buy and range, I mean, I would say my average

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buy in for a very long time was like two

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hundred dollars, And these are the types of players that

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are going to be playing these things. And I think

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I just really got good from like experience and trial

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and error of playing these player types. And even to

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this day, like you go play a thirty five hundred

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WPT or something like, you're gonna see I don't want

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to say a majority, but a good amount of players

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in the field are the types of players that I

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was playing in these two hundred for a really long time.

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Let me think of an example. I don't want to

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say put anyone on blast here, because I think there's

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just people like in the studio that like are great

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poker players, but like you're really playing a different game

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when you're playing in like these big field like lower

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buy in like events, and I think that's just like

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a whole you need to play a whole different style.

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And I think I've gotten like I would take myself

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first almost anybody in America in these like sort of

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events where like theoretically, yeah, people are gonna be way

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like better than me, but they don't really know like

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the response to what some of these people are doing. Yeah,

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I think that's probably my biggest like, uh, what's the

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word your your edge? So yeah, I think I have

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a really big edge in that, like especially going into

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the summer, like my like let's say, uh, somebody like

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who's been catching a lot of heat, like Maurice Hawkins.

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I think like Sean Deeve is actually really good at this.

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He has tons of experience and success in these sorts

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of events where like you just know how to play

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like the average recreational and that's the majority of the

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playerpool you're gonna see in these big field events. So

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I think I've done really well and that's like where

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my edge comes from in that.

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Speaker 2: So do you think that guys that exclusively play ten

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K plus buy ins are unable to adjust in a

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meaningful way against that different sort of player pool, Because

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to me, it almost seems sometimes like if you study

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and just learn how to play and then have some

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I guess tools to your disposal mentally to adjust based

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on opponents, then it shouldn't be that difficult to adjust downwards.

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It's almost more difficult to adjust upwards as a competition increases.

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Or do you think that you know, players that only

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play those big bunds have huge leaks and if they do.

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Speaker 1: What are some of those I don't want to say leaks,

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just like like I'm not going to sit here and

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be like, oh, Steven Chidwick has no shot in the

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Milliemaker because like he's one of the best poker players

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in the world. Yeah, but like I just think maybe

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there will be certain spots where like he'll have a

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certain hand that like, okay, like I have this sort

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of like blocker, I just have to call here, Like

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my hand is great as a call here. But when

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you're playing like Rick from fucking Arkansas, like Rick's just

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never bluffing his tournament life off here like ever, so

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regardless of like your hand, like you almost just have

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like a pure fold, you know, And maybe I mean

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I don't want to say like guys like that aren't

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looking for these sorts of things, but like batsizing patterns

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with these type of players are is like the number

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one most important thing. Like even if it's like let's

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say pre flop, it's like raise and then three bet

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like three acts and then I'm in like the small

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blind with like a blaw let's say, like some shitty ace.

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But I just saw last orbit, the same guy three

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beat and showed down Kings and he went like four

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x in like a similar position. Like he's just typically

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not going to be as strong, So I don't mind

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like just going with my read and taking some shit

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hand and like trying to get all this dead money

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where I think, like I keep using Stevie just because

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like he's one of the best, yeah poker players, and

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he may fucking be really well in these fields, Like

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I just don't know, I've never played with him in them,

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but he might just look down at like Acedu's off

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right there and be like all right, fold and like

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not think twice. But this guy's literally telling you, like

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by his sizing, that he just doesn't have like a

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hand that he's willing to go with. And I just

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like don't care of looking stupid. Really where I think

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that's really important in tournaments, I.

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Speaker 2: Think you hit on something really interesting that the not

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looking stupid part. Sometimes when you observe, especially final tables,

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it becomes like a math contest in many ways, where

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I see you guys playing in the studio on day one,

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lots of bands, are lots of chatter, people running around.

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We've done some of the streaming where you know, you

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see some more of that insight sort of baseball where

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you guys just have like talk about prop bets and

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all sorts of nonsense, and then the final table rolls

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around and it's pretty quiet and people focus on the math.

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And the thing that I always think when I watched

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that is like, Oh, they don't want to look stupid,

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they don't want to make a mistake because this is

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on TV. This will make a highlight reel, or maybe

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they'll their their investor or their friend will text them

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afterwards and say, you know this, this spot is a

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pure fold stuff like that, and just not having that

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or not having those f's to give in spots like

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that could definitely be a place where you get an edge.

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Do you think that there's room for that too at

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the studio level or are you completely switching up your game?

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Speaker 1: Am I switching up my game at a final table?

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Speaker 2: Year?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: No I between in the studio in general, because the.

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Speaker 1: I think definitely when I first started playing in the studio,

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I was very like trying to take it way more

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serious than like, for instance, one k at Venetian in

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this just in the sense of like table presence, like

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I don't like we've never played poker together, but I

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mean at the table like I'm fucking yeah, and like

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I'm talking shit like I'm talking during the hand, you know,

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and from the outside looking in, you might be like, oh,

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this kid just doesn't care, like he's just having a

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good time. But like for me, that's what works and

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makes me like most comfortable and just talking out loud,

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like poker is a social game, Like I'm not there

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to make friends, like I'm there to make money, but

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I want to like have fun while doing it. Where

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I found myself in the studio, it wasn't really nervous,

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just like, oh my god, this is a ten k

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like way above my typical buy and range, Like let

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me be like more serious and at the beginning, like

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I found that that just wasn't like working for me,

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Like I would just find myself like getting short later

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in the tournament or for whatever reason, like just the

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whole quiet serious like doesn't work for me personally. Where

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and I remember I literally texted Daniel and Josh who

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invested in me in poker, and I was like, I'm

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gonna play this series. It was the Bounty series. I

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think there were six tournaments and I ft'd like five

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of them and one one, and I was just like,

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going into the series, I'm gonna treat these tournaments like

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a four hundred a Venetian. I said, just like, by

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the way I'm like acting in my table presence, and

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it fucking really worked out. If that was a coincidence,

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I don't know. But ever since then, I've just been

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way more like comfortable and uh more of like myself

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at the table, and I think that's really important. But

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as for like playing style, No, if you played the

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same way as you do in like a big field

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one k in a ten k at the studio, like

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you're just gonna be dead. So I definitely do play

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a little bit different.

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Speaker 2: So it's interesting because you mentioned Daniel Legrand or josh

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Aria who invests in you, and we can touch on

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this on this later, but I find the progression interesting

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because the string of results you've had in Lord buying

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events show to your point that you've sort of figured

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out how to be successful in those. Now you have

242
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sort of an idea and understanding of what works, what

243
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,559
doesn't work, and how to sort of go through that

244
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mindfield type setting. And a player that comes to mind

245
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who does this too very well is helping who really

246
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,879
benefits from you know, players that are recreational, that are

247
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,440
just having fun, that at some point will give their

248
00:13:22,519 --> 00:13:27,360
chips away and then for you to then move up

249
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,639
through the ranks as your bankroll grows. Makes total sense

250
00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,039
from a progression point of view, but from a approach

251
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point of view and the way you see poker and

252
00:13:36,039 --> 00:13:38,399
the way you see you know, how do I beat

253
00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,879
this game? It almost doesn't make sense because that's not

254
00:13:41,879 --> 00:13:44,320
what your game is sort of built on. So how

255
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did you make that change?

256
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Speaker 1: I think a big thing for me in like studio success,

257
00:13:51,919 --> 00:13:53,879
just the way that I learn is more like trial

258
00:13:53,919 --> 00:13:57,600
and error and playing experience. And also I used to

259
00:13:57,639 --> 00:14:01,200
watch these Gigi Super Mis final tables, you know what

260
00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,879
that is. So these are like the best players in

261
00:14:03,919 --> 00:14:07,240
the world, and they post these final tables on YouTube

262
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,080
with the cards up, and you just see like every

263
00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,919
single hand what people are folding and going with in

264
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,200
certain spots and whatnot. And I really watched like all

265
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,720
of those for a long time, and the types of

266
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players in those events are more of like the studio types,

267
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like very studied, calculated, and I honestly think that helped

268
00:14:30,679 --> 00:14:33,360
me a lot, as well as just talking with people

269
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,480
that play in there through hands as I became more

270
00:14:35,519 --> 00:14:40,840
and more friendly with them and just recognizing like patterns

271
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,240
in the way that they play, and just like using

272
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,480
logic throughout the hand, Like I think the way that

273
00:14:45,519 --> 00:14:51,480
I play is rather than like, Okay, this hand is

274
00:14:51,559 --> 00:14:54,039
like a go in this spot, I'm more so like

275
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:58,759
what can I do to confuse my opponent, where like Okay,

276
00:14:58,799 --> 00:15:01,679
this bord texture, you're gonna want to bet like thirty

277
00:15:01,679 --> 00:15:04,519
percent pot where I might be like all right on

278
00:15:04,559 --> 00:15:07,200
this board texture, like maybe I'm going to bet eighty

279
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,600
percent because I want the reaction of like what the

280
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,600
fuck is he doing? Like that's not a thing, Like

281
00:15:11,639 --> 00:15:13,759
what is he trying to say he has? If you

282
00:15:13,799 --> 00:15:17,840
can confuse your opponent, I think, and be like unpredictable

283
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,480
to me, I think that's the hardest to play against,

284
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:26,039
rather than like doing everything like correctly and just playing

285
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,519
the same as everybody else and pretty much just like

286
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:31,679
I just want to make it a guessing game for

287
00:15:31,759 --> 00:15:35,120
my opponent, and I think for me personally, like that's

288
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,039
what fits me well, where for others maybe that won't work.

289
00:15:38,519 --> 00:15:41,039
But just like I don't know, everybody's a different person

290
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,120
and has slightly different style, so I don't know. I

291
00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,039
think I found what works for me, and I'm always

292
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,639
trying to come up with different ideas and whatnot.

293
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,919
Speaker 2: When you describe this pivot in playing styles or this

294
00:15:55,919 --> 00:15:58,600
this trial and error way of sort of you know,

295
00:15:58,679 --> 00:16:02,320
figuring it out more us, you almost make it seem

296
00:16:02,399 --> 00:16:06,519
like this is like a simple thing where you have

297
00:16:06,639 --> 00:16:09,360
been successful at a certain level and now we're going

298
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,799
to just you know, go through the next phase and

299
00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,720
play these higher buyings and I will again, you know,

300
00:16:14,759 --> 00:16:18,960
figure it out which you have. But it's almost like

301
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,080
you're under selling whatever the X factor is that you

302
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,080
have or you possess, or that your mind goes into

303
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,639
that allows you to do that, because the way you

304
00:16:27,639 --> 00:16:30,120
describe it, it almost you're almost convincing me that I

305
00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,080
can go to the studio and figure it out. But

306
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,759
that's obviously going to backfire horribly and my wife would

307
00:16:34,759 --> 00:16:36,600
divorce me and we would lose all our money. But

308
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,120
in your case, you were able to do that what

309
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,360
gave you the confidence that you could do that?

310
00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,679
Speaker 1: Man. I really just think like I started, like I

311
00:16:46,679 --> 00:16:48,480
don't know what you know about like my start, Like

312
00:16:48,519 --> 00:16:52,080
when I finished college, I really did not have much

313
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,840
money at all, and like got offered a job and

314
00:16:54,879 --> 00:16:57,159
turned it down to play poker, and like my deal

315
00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,279
with my mom was if I lost that money, I

316
00:16:59,279 --> 00:17:02,799
would get job. And it was just like back against

317
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:04,680
the wall, like I can't lose this money. I'm not

318
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,240
sitting in a fucking office every day like I have

319
00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:10,920
to play poker. And I just like basically I just

320
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,519
really came from nothing, like there was no backup playing

321
00:17:13,559 --> 00:17:16,359
like nobody like I don't come from money, Like my

322
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,200
family wasn't like okay, you keep losing, like here's more,

323
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,880
eventually you'll spin it up. So I just had to

324
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,559
like figure out ways to win. And uh, I used

325
00:17:25,559 --> 00:17:29,079
to just play cash grinding every day and eventually just

326
00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,599
like climbed up the ranks and finally got into tournaments.

327
00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:36,559
And I just like it's really like playing experience and

328
00:17:36,599 --> 00:17:39,359
trial and error. Like I get asked a lot from

329
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,519
like mid stakes and low steaks guys for coaching, and

330
00:17:42,559 --> 00:17:45,319
I'm really like I just don't think it would be

331
00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,519
worth it to you right now. Like I can't explain

332
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,559
sometimes what goes on in my mind, Like a spot

333
00:17:51,599 --> 00:17:53,839
will just come to me and I'll just be like,

334
00:17:54,039 --> 00:17:56,680
this guy just doesn't fucking have it, and I really

335
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,880
can't explain why, Like it just I just go with

336
00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:02,880
my gut and generally i'd like to think it's right. Yeah,

337
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,119
Like a lot of my thought process I just can't

338
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,039
really explain to people. Just for whatever reason, like I

339
00:18:08,079 --> 00:18:10,640
get a feeling like this will work or this won't work,

340
00:18:10,759 --> 00:18:12,640
or this guy has this or that, and I just

341
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:17,039
trust myself and I think rather than like second guessing myself,

342
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,839
I really just go with what I'm thinking. And I'm

343
00:18:19,839 --> 00:18:23,440
not scared to like look like an idiot. I mean

344
00:18:23,799 --> 00:18:27,079
that happens, but I think long term, like my decisions

345
00:18:27,079 --> 00:18:29,039
will just work out profitably.

346
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,960
Speaker 2: I think and correct me if I'm wrong. This is

347
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,599
probably much more a personality trait than than you might

348
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,480
even understand, you know, just from like a poker perspective,

349
00:18:39,559 --> 00:18:43,440
because it sounds as though that initial decision to go

350
00:18:43,519 --> 00:18:46,160
for it and to play poker was sort of rooted

351
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,799
in the same way of thinking, where you would figure

352
00:18:49,799 --> 00:18:51,319
it out and you will figure it out because you

353
00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,160
had the determination and you clearly have the intelligence to

354
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,519
try and do that. Is that something you recognize from

355
00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,240
earlier in your life, or maybe your mom will say

356
00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,319
something like, oh, yeah, you know the way that you

357
00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,079
are now. I saw that growing up. Like did you

358
00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,160
attach yourself to certain things and you figured them out

359
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,880
on the go, or maybe maybe poker was the first

360
00:19:09,079 --> 00:19:10,720
sort of thing to really click for you. But do

361
00:19:10,759 --> 00:19:11,759
you have examples of that?

362
00:19:12,279 --> 00:19:14,680
Speaker 1: I would just say I was a very big I

363
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,079
mean it's all relative, but like growing up, let's say

364
00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,559
middle school, high school, like me and my group of friends,

365
00:19:20,599 --> 00:19:23,240
like we're gambling our net worths every day against each

366
00:19:23,279 --> 00:19:27,039
other in like whatever game, whether it's like golf, basketball,

367
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:31,279
like shooting dice, like literally anything, and it's just like

368
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,160
I've had it all on the line so many times,

369
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,119
just like believing in myself. Like literally we used to

370
00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:40,640
just roll one dice and like the first one to

371
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,359
roll the six just wins the pot. And we'd have

372
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,160
like literally all of our money in the middle of

373
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,480
the pool table rolling this dice, and like in my

374
00:19:48,559 --> 00:19:50,839
head with the dice in my hand, like it's like

375
00:19:51,599 --> 00:19:53,640
run it again, like I'm gonna get the fucking six,

376
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,039
like and there's nothing, there's no strategy or anything. You

377
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,319
just like I just really like believed in myself and

378
00:20:00,319 --> 00:20:02,400
in those cases, like it did not work out a

379
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,240
lot of the time, but just like feeling like for

380
00:20:05,279 --> 00:20:08,680
whatever reason that like I have this edge and like

381
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,640
I will like get it done. Like I don't know,

382
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,920
that's just always stuck with me, and I've had to

383
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:20,599
like figure it out, and luckily I've been successful generally.

384
00:20:21,279 --> 00:20:25,200
Speaker 2: So let's go back to your cash game era. Was

385
00:20:25,279 --> 00:20:29,039
that sort of a linear way to make money where

386
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,960
you know, you found your stakes, you moved up. You know,

387
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,640
it was easy enough to play in an environment where

388
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,920
you know, if you have your sort of approach and

389
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:43,559
your determination, you will make money or potentially were there

390
00:20:43,559 --> 00:20:46,079
are massive ups and downs where there were times where

391
00:20:46,079 --> 00:20:47,480
you were not sure if it was going to.

392
00:20:47,519 --> 00:20:51,519
Speaker 1: Work out well at first, Like in college. So I

393
00:20:51,559 --> 00:20:54,799
went to college in Florida, and I grew up gambling

394
00:20:54,799 --> 00:20:57,960
with my friends. So when I got to college, I

395
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,079
was less than ten minutes from hard Rock casino in Tampa,

396
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,519
and me and my friends, I turned my college friends

397
00:21:05,559 --> 00:21:08,359
into gamblers that never really gambled before, and all of

398
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,160
a sudden now they're djens and UH. In the casino,

399
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,039
to play like blackjack or roulette whatever, you need to

400
00:21:15,039 --> 00:21:17,640
be twenty one, but to play poker you only need

401
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,880
to be eighteen. So initially we went to the casino

402
00:21:21,079 --> 00:21:24,799
just looking to gamble, and we couldn't gamble on anything,

403
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,519
only poker. So I was almost like forced to because

404
00:21:28,559 --> 00:21:31,279
I just needed to like scratch that itch. I was

405
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,400
basically like forced to play poker, and I just really

406
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:39,119
loved it. And initially, obviously I just lost and lost.

407
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,160
But I was playing one to one, no limit, one

408
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,559
hundred dollars max, and I think I was coming in

409
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,359
for the minimum was either forty or sixty. I think

410
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,440
it was forty, And initially I was just coming in

411
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,480
for the minimum a bunch and uh just losing every

412
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,200
buy in and uh going south sometimes when I needed

413
00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,200
to to make sure I had money to like get

414
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,119
a cab back because I knew I was going to

415
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,519
lose in the end. But even then, like almost like

416
00:22:04,559 --> 00:22:06,799
the parlay ticket, like I'm coming in for the minimum,

417
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,119
trying to like spin it up, you know, and not

418
00:22:10,319 --> 00:22:14,880
risk like a lot, which in that time like buying

419
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,039
in for a hundred and just getting stacked right away

420
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,799
like that hurt. Like I'm a college kid. I saved

421
00:22:19,839 --> 00:22:22,160
some money, like my mom would make me put away

422
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,039
some money. When I was in high school, I was

423
00:22:24,039 --> 00:22:26,599
a caddie out a golf course, so I was gambling

424
00:22:26,599 --> 00:22:28,720
most of it, but some was in the bank. And

425
00:22:28,759 --> 00:22:31,119
now I'm using all of that to play poker and

426
00:22:31,279 --> 00:22:34,759
just lost for like a year straight, making excuses to

427
00:22:34,799 --> 00:22:38,480
my mom why, like I need my savings from saving

428
00:22:38,559 --> 00:22:41,000
up my whole life. Just I used to tell her

429
00:22:41,039 --> 00:22:44,079
anything because they were very anti gambling and they knew

430
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:48,519
that I was a gambler in high school. I'm saying, like, yeah,

431
00:22:48,559 --> 00:22:50,880
it's my friend's birthday. We went to the strip club,

432
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,599
and I fucking dusted off five hundred, Like that's better

433
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,720
than telling my mom I'm playing poker at the casino.

434
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,279
So yeah, I just was kind of forced to play

435
00:23:01,319 --> 00:23:03,480
poker when I went to the casino, and I fell

436
00:23:03,519 --> 00:23:06,720
in love with it and eventually just started winning and

437
00:23:06,759 --> 00:23:10,039
moved to one, two and then two, five, five, ten,

438
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:10,559
et cetera.

439
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,559
Speaker 2: Was was there like a light bulb moment where things

440
00:23:14,559 --> 00:23:17,720
turned or did you perhaps talk to the right person

441
00:23:18,079 --> 00:23:20,519
or was there you know, I mean, you mentioned like,

442
00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:23,400
you know, watching a lot of contents, was there a

443
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,200
progression that you can sort of root into a certain point?

444
00:23:28,319 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 1: After college, I started playing at Resorts World Cat Skills

445
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,279
in New York, and my family's from New York, so

446
00:23:36,319 --> 00:23:38,880
I moved back to New York after I graduated and

447
00:23:39,039 --> 00:23:40,920
was trying to spin up this little money that I

448
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,640
had to support myself. I was living at home, and

449
00:23:45,759 --> 00:23:49,200
in ten months I spun it to like, let's say,

450
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,680
a little bit on their one hundred k, just from

451
00:23:51,839 --> 00:23:56,640
like I don't know, I didn't really have expenses. I stopped,

452
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,799
like I was watching high stakes poker, like Poker Go,

453
00:24:00,079 --> 00:24:03,480
whatever YouTube poker there was. I was just non stop

454
00:24:03,519 --> 00:24:07,559
watching it when I wasn't playing, and everyone's so big

455
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,400
on the bank roll management. I'm watching whatever sort of videos,

456
00:24:12,039 --> 00:24:15,279
and I'm like, just the action in Florida was much

457
00:24:15,319 --> 00:24:18,359
better than New York, and I got really motivated to

458
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,440
like save up and go back down to Florida. My

459
00:24:21,519 --> 00:24:25,279
best friend from college had an extra year of college.

460
00:24:25,319 --> 00:24:29,559
He played lacrosse, had an extra year of eligibility, so like,

461
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,039
I wanted to go down there with him and just

462
00:24:32,759 --> 00:24:35,119
hang out and play poker every day. And I got

463
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:40,119
motivated to like just have like some sort of bankroll

464
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,119
management where it wasn't just about playing, It was about

465
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,119
making money so that I had enough to like go

466
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,559
down there. And yeah, I don't know, I think that

467
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,039
motivated me. And then when I started to make money,

468
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,519
I didn't like want to spend it. I just wanted

469
00:24:54,559 --> 00:24:57,759
it so that I could play bigger stakes. And yeah,

470
00:24:57,799 --> 00:24:59,799
that's really what I was motivated by. I was getting

471
00:24:59,839 --> 00:25:02,119
my own place down in Tampa.

472
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,279
Speaker 2: How do you go from hiding from your your your

473
00:25:06,319 --> 00:25:11,000
family that you're you know, spending money or losing money

474
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,079
playing poker too, then coming to them saying, look, I've

475
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,200
won all this money but playing poker. Was there you know,

476
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,920
a moment where you had to come clean that in

477
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,079
the like, oh Mom, sorry, the I did. I never

478
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:26,880
went to the strip club. This was all poker money.

479
00:25:27,039 --> 00:25:29,960
But now look at me, now I'm doing great. Do

480
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,920
you remember perhaps that conversation.

481
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,599
Speaker 1: Well, I actually didn't admit to my mom that I

482
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,000
was playing as much as I was in college until

483
00:25:38,079 --> 00:25:42,039
like maybe a couple of years ago, so I had that.

484
00:25:42,319 --> 00:25:43,480
I think she always knew.

485
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:44,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, but.

486
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I mean she knew. I just what

487
00:25:50,039 --> 00:25:53,200
can she say if she sees like my bank account

488
00:25:53,319 --> 00:25:56,680
like going up and me like being able to support myself.

489
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,680
Like she made very clear when I did choose to

490
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,440
play poker that not that like my family has money,

491
00:26:02,759 --> 00:26:06,079
but like she's my mom. So like let's say I

492
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,640
was ever like debt broke, like you would think your

493
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,279
parents would like take you in or whatever, but she's like,

494
00:26:12,319 --> 00:26:14,839
if you're choosing to gamble for a living rather than

495
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,160
take a job, like I won't be helping you out

496
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:24,039
financially at all. So initially I believe I needed to borrow,

497
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,359
like I was playing one two, three hundred dollars max

498
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:33,119
like after college, and uh, I think I got down

499
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,640
to like a couple buy ins left, and I was

500
00:26:35,759 --> 00:26:39,440
like I always came in for the max. I was like, Mom,

501
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,000
just please, like let me have a hundred bucks or something,

502
00:26:42,039 --> 00:26:44,759
just so unprepared, like if I need to rebuy, and

503
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,519
like she gave me that like hundred or whatever it

504
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:52,640
was and was like never again, like I'm not giving

505
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,640
you anything, And I ended up spinning it up and

506
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,559
like I gave her back. I think I liked double,

507
00:26:57,759 --> 00:26:59,160
Like if she gave me a hundred, I gave her

508
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,359
back too, and was like thank you, Like they weren't

509
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,200
thrilled with it, But I mean, what can they say

510
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,720
when they see me supporting myself and they're not giving

511
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,200
me any money for anything and I'm getting my own place, Like,

512
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,319
I mean, there's they know how much I love it? Like,

513
00:27:15,319 --> 00:27:16,279
what can they really say?

514
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 2: Was there a moment where she realized that you were

515
00:27:21,519 --> 00:27:23,519
not just paying the bills but you were actually becoming

516
00:27:23,599 --> 00:27:26,400
kind of like a star in the game, or you

517
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:31,200
picked up some notoriety or some level of poker celebrity

518
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,799
if you will, because you know, your name hit my

519
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,160
radar many years ago when you were still just you know,

520
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,640
playing the dailies, and that became almost like a meme.

521
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 1: You know you're that many though. It was literally I

522
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,160
moved to Vegas, Like you didn't know who I was

523
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,119
when I lived in Florida, right, And I didn't move

524
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,839
to Vegas. I moved here three years and two months ago,

525
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,279
I think it was. So it wasn't like many years ago.

526
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,079
It was. I believe I moved at the beginning of

527
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,920
March twenty twenty three or end of February twenty twenty three,

528
00:27:59,599 --> 00:28:04,599
and before the before that, like my parents were on board,

529
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,200
but they always like they did not think it was

530
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,680
like for sure gonna work out. Like always in the

531
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,559
back of my mom's mind is like, just maybe it

532
00:28:15,599 --> 00:28:18,559
would be better if, like you got a job before

533
00:28:18,599 --> 00:28:21,880
I moved here. It was in January of twenty twenty three.

534
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,640
I believe I won a four hundred dollars tournament for

535
00:28:24,759 --> 00:28:29,880
like thirty five K or something, and honestly, if I

536
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:34,440
didn't win that tournament, like I was honestly thinking of

537
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,440
getting like some sort of second secondhand income, just not

538
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,759
necessarily taking a job. But just like you know, this

539
00:28:41,839 --> 00:28:44,279
tournament thing just is fucking brutal. Like I felt like

540
00:28:44,319 --> 00:28:47,200
I'm getting fucked in every deep tournament. Now I'm playing

541
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,079
for like I'm playing like two hundreds and four hundreds

542
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,720
with like sub ten k up top typically, but I

543
00:28:53,839 --> 00:28:56,680
just like never seem to like get first or second,

544
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,039
and it's really hard to beat low stakes tournaments with

545
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,079
break and whatnot. I just remember going I went down

546
00:29:03,079 --> 00:29:05,799
to Miami where the other hard rock is, and I

547
00:29:05,799 --> 00:29:08,799
remember thinking like, if this series doesn't work out, like

548
00:29:08,839 --> 00:29:11,240
I'm just going back to playing cash and maybe getting

549
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:12,039
some sort of job.

550
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 2: Wow.

551
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: And then I won that and it was just like

552
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,720
a complete one eighty, like Okay, fuck it, I'm going

553
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,160
to Vegas, like let's let's play these tournaments.

554
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 2: That's so insane. And I'm looking at your at your

555
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,119
results now, and it's actually kind of funny because I

556
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,279
never fully realized how many cashes you already had just

557
00:29:30,319 --> 00:29:33,480
in Florida playing the like sort of the smaller buying

558
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:34,160
tournaments there.

559
00:29:34,079 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: The one eighty triple stack that was like that was

560
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,240
your thing, that was the tournament every day pretty much.

561
00:29:38,279 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, But then as you described this, that sounds like

562
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:47,240
an enormous break even stretch where you're just like in

563
00:29:47,279 --> 00:29:49,720
the washing machine, where you know, you're just sort of

564
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,559
spun around every single day and you're you're keeping your

565
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:54,799
head just above the water until that one score comes.

566
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,759
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say break even stretch, Like I was definitely

567
00:29:58,759 --> 00:30:01,440
making money and I'm also playing cash like I would

568
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,440
bust this tournament and like I'm jumping straight into two, five, five, ten,

569
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,319
whatever's going on. But I mean playing low stakes like

570
00:30:09,359 --> 00:30:13,720
that with like my sort of lifestyle, just like I'm

571
00:30:13,759 --> 00:30:17,640
not shy about like spending money. It's definitely tough to

572
00:30:17,759 --> 00:30:21,799
like save anything when you're playing that small and if

573
00:30:21,799 --> 00:30:24,440
you go on like cold streaks or something like. It's

574
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,400
not like you just stop spending money, like you have

575
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,599
to live. Yeah, I mean I was. I was literally

576
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:34,160
playing every day all day Like this one eighty was

577
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,960
at like five or six o'clock. I'm going to the

578
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,200
casino at eleven am. I'm grinding cash for six seven hours.

579
00:30:40,559 --> 00:30:42,440
Then I'm gonna eat and jump in the tournament, and

580
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,519
then after the tournament, I'm gonna play cash a couple

581
00:30:44,559 --> 00:30:48,839
more hours every day, just like trying to just make

582
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,319
money as well as like get playing experience, Like I

583
00:30:51,359 --> 00:30:54,480
fucking love sitting at the table and playing, especially if

584
00:30:54,559 --> 00:30:56,319
like everyone's talking having a good time.

585
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 2: I mean, you have to love it. You are that committed,

586
00:31:01,519 --> 00:31:05,119
and I mean hours wise. The guys who play online,

587
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,359
you know they'll they'll rival you. You know they play

588
00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:10,759
every single day too. But the fact that you chose

589
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,880
this pathway it says a lot about your personality because

590
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,640
you could have also just found some location where grinding

591
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,839
online is available and putting the hours there. There's plenty

592
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,559
of stories of those people. Did it ever cross your

593
00:31:26,599 --> 00:31:30,119
mind that that would be both a good proving ground,

594
00:31:30,279 --> 00:31:32,039
a good place to get a lot of volume in

595
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,759
and perhaps to have, you know, lower expenses and just

596
00:31:35,759 --> 00:31:36,559
make money that way.

597
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: No, I've never had any interest of playing on the computer.

598
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,880
I just for me, there's something just about like seeing

599
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:48,000
the person and like being there physically and just I

600
00:31:48,039 --> 00:31:50,559
mean this probably sounds stupid, but just like feeling like

601
00:31:50,759 --> 00:31:53,920
the vibes of the person and like their energy. Like

602
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,400
I really think that's like a big thing. Like if

603
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,960
there's some guy sitting at the table and he's just

604
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,559
talking about how unlucky he is, Like that's the guy

605
00:32:03,599 --> 00:32:06,839
I want to be all in against. Like you know,

606
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,079
I'm sitting next to uh Aram Zobian one day. This

607
00:32:11,119 --> 00:32:13,119
guy can't lose it all in like the way he's

608
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,039
tabling his cards, like he just can't lose. Like there's

609
00:32:17,119 --> 00:32:19,759
just something about energy, and it's like if I have

610
00:32:19,799 --> 00:32:22,880
a close spot and like he's all in with cards

611
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,480
to come, like I'm just not gonna take it. And

612
00:32:25,519 --> 00:32:28,920
then there's like another guy saying like how unlucky he is,

613
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,319
and there's a close spot where like I could pass,

614
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,200
I could go with it, like we're gonna run it,

615
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,160
and like I just really am a big believer in that.

616
00:32:38,359 --> 00:32:42,039
And for whatever reason, I think it's like true, like

617
00:32:42,279 --> 00:32:44,559
energy is very real, and I don't think you can

618
00:32:44,559 --> 00:32:47,079
feel that through like any computer screen.

619
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 2: Well, on the on the subject of energy, I've been

620
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,720
around the studio plenty of times where your energy seems

621
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,119
to be all over the place, and I've I've also

622
00:32:59,359 --> 00:33:02,519
come across your share of frustration, as you know, you

623
00:33:02,519 --> 00:33:05,200
get eliminated, or you get bad beat, or you know

624
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,119
at the final table things don't work out. You also

625
00:33:08,279 --> 00:33:11,200
live it like you live You live the tournament experience

626
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,079
in a way that most people would say for a

627
00:33:13,119 --> 00:33:16,240
professional that's like unhealthy, but you almost seem to like

628
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,079
need that in order to make it count or make

629
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,799
you perform at your best when you care that much.

630
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,279
Speaker 1: I think I really lately, I shouldn't even say lately,

631
00:33:28,319 --> 00:33:31,880
I don't know last year or so, it just so happens.

632
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,119
Like variance is very real. I've played a handful of

633
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:40,640
twenty five k's and all of them but one I've

634
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,240
been all in pre flop with aces or kings or

635
00:33:44,319 --> 00:33:48,119
pair over pair, whatever the case is, for like infinite

636
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,839
chips and just never won, like I've just gotten fucked in,

637
00:33:52,079 --> 00:33:55,039
like in the biggest like buy in spots of like

638
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,759
my young poker career in these big binds, and I

639
00:33:58,759 --> 00:34:01,880
think part of it is like sitting there like come on, hold,

640
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:06,000
no King, or like whatever it is where like the

641
00:34:06,039 --> 00:34:08,280
people that I've lost to just so happened to be

642
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,559
like easygoing, played like one hundred k's, two hundred k's

643
00:34:12,559 --> 00:34:14,480
whatever the case may be, and like not that they

644
00:34:14,519 --> 00:34:18,159
don't care, but like it's just another all in for them,

645
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,000
no matter the buy in. Where if I'm playing like

646
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,920
in eleven hundred, like obviously I want to win, but

647
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,360
like I'm not sweating the runout, like it's not that

648
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,360
I don't care, it's just like whatever I've done this

649
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,920
thousands of times. I've only been all in in like

650
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,519
these really big buy ins for me a few times,

651
00:34:33,599 --> 00:34:36,800
and like I really wanted to win and for some reason,

652
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,400
like I've just gotten fucked in pretty much all them.

653
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,639
Not that like I go in saying like oh my god,

654
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:44,079
I'm all in with aces again, like I'm so unlucky.

655
00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:47,599
But rather than just like sitting back and just watching

656
00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:50,920
the runout in my head, I'm like, no, King, like

657
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,840
don't fuck me like this again, Like and I don't know,

658
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,519
there's just something too that I think, so I'm really

659
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,559
trying hard not to sweat these all ins in these

660
00:35:01,599 --> 00:35:05,400
bigger buy ins. My mindset, I think is actually very

661
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,519
bad the way that I think about all ins. Like

662
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,800
if you're a professional, let's say I'm all in with

663
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,840
you and I'm eighty percent, you're twenty percent, and like

664
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,039
I lose. I think the mindset should be like, oh,

665
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,519
nothing I can do, Like I did my job, like

666
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:26,559
onto the next where like that's what really tilts me.

667
00:35:27,159 --> 00:35:29,519
Where like if I make a mistake, like let's say

668
00:35:29,519 --> 00:35:31,800
I run a bad bluff, or like I make a

669
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,239
bad call, like that doesn't tilt me because like that's

670
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,079
my mistake and like rather than being fucked by the deck,

671
00:35:38,199 --> 00:35:41,440
like I lost this tournament because I made a bad decision,

672
00:35:41,639 --> 00:35:43,239
and like I can live with that because I think

673
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,719
it can be fixed, where I think most pro's mindsets

674
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,159
are the opposite, or like if it's their mistake, they're

675
00:35:50,199 --> 00:35:53,360
gonna be pissed off and that's gonna tilt them. Where

676
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,400
I'm the complete opposite, where like I'm tilted when like

677
00:35:58,039 --> 00:36:01,400
I did everything good, put myself in a great position

678
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,280
to get all the chips, and I got fucked. That's

679
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,599
what like I'll be driving home like fuck this, where

680
00:36:06,639 --> 00:36:08,800
like if it's my fault, I literally forget about it

681
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:10,639
a minute later, like I know I can fix it.

682
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:11,280
That's fine.

683
00:36:11,559 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's so wild because you do describe exactly

684
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,199
what most poker pros usually say, where you know it's

685
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:20,440
it's it's out of my hands now.

686
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm the I mean I think you said you're

687
00:36:23,119 --> 00:36:25,400
gonna have Chewy on here at some point. Yeah, like

688
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,360
I'm sure Chewy's very like at peace, like I made

689
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,440
the right decision, like oh, well, see you again tomorrow,

690
00:36:31,679 --> 00:36:34,599
where like I'm the complete opposite. And yes, you said

691
00:36:34,599 --> 00:36:37,159
that you've seen like let's say I get fucked in

692
00:36:37,199 --> 00:36:39,760
a big hand, I'm like, oh fuck this, Like but

693
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,320
it's all not that it's a bit right, but it's

694
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,559
like I'm joking around, like I'm not actually like, oh

695
00:36:46,599 --> 00:36:49,159
my god, I never fucking win this like it I'm

696
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,199
just fucking around like I'm just I don't know. It's

697
00:36:52,199 --> 00:36:54,440
like hard on my sleeve, like I'm not actually like

698
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,400
I shouldn't say I'm not tilted, but I'm not actually

699
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,360
Like when I say, like when will it end there? Whatever,

700
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,719
that like that's not real, Like I know I've been

701
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,480
fortunate in life, you know, like I mean it was

702
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:08,760
I don't know, let's say a little less than ten

703
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,639
years ago. I have a couple thousand dollars to my name,

704
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,559
like buying in for one hundred dollars, Like now I'm

705
00:37:14,559 --> 00:37:17,280
playing ten thousand dollars tournaments, you know, so like the

706
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,639
one will it end? Like I'm very fortunate, and I

707
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:20,119
know that.

708
00:37:20,039 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 2: It's probably not ending anytime soon. I think you're you're

709
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,400
you're too committed to the No.

710
00:37:25,119 --> 00:37:27,559
Speaker 1: It does end, like I'm very trying to be positivity.

711
00:37:27,599 --> 00:37:30,280
I'm gonna win this all, but like when I get fucked,

712
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:31,159
like you're gonna know it.

713
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 2: That's good though, And the one thing people have to

714
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,480
realize when you're in the studio and and these guys

715
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,840
are playing on day one, it's Jeremy Becker just leading

716
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,400
the circus and you're you're walking between the tables, You're

717
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,760
you're you're engaging with everyone. You've become friends with all

718
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,599
these guys, and it seems like such a casual atmosphere.

719
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,519
And that is something that's I think often not understood

720
00:37:51,639 --> 00:37:57,079
from the outside, is how incredibly casual these ten k

721
00:37:57,159 --> 00:37:59,920
plus buyings are. Because I also, you know, go to

722
00:38:00,079 --> 00:38:02,440
Venetian all the time, and it feels like the WSP

723
00:38:02,519 --> 00:38:04,639
Main Events final table, like on day one of a

724
00:38:04,639 --> 00:38:08,119
four hundred, and in the studio it looks like I'm

725
00:38:08,119 --> 00:38:10,400
walking into a home game. What is that about?

726
00:38:10,559 --> 00:38:14,599
Speaker 1: So I think in the studio it's gonna be either

727
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,320
like you're a very successful poker professional that like just

728
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,760
plays these ten k's all the time and you're like proven,

729
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,199
you have investors believing in you to play these tournaments,

730
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:30,199
or you just have the money yourself, or you're just

731
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,599
gonna be like a very well off like businessman that's

732
00:38:34,639 --> 00:38:38,239
in there like having fun like and those are really

733
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,719
I can't really think of another player type. Correct me

734
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:41,880
if you think otherwise.

735
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 2: I think you're right.

736
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:47,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so everyone, all the professionals like have played

737
00:38:47,079 --> 00:38:49,719
poker long enough, or like when you lose an eighty twenty,

738
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:51,960
like no one's gonna slam the table and be like

739
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,599
what the fuck? How do you call there? Like it's

740
00:38:54,679 --> 00:38:57,719
literally just like knock on the table, like good game,

741
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:02,199
Like I'm fucking rebuyings you soon and it's just laughs.

742
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,760
Or it's like the rit the wealthy business guy who's like, ah,

743
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,039
that was a blast. That's poker, like see you guys later,

744
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,079
where when you go to like Venetian and play like

745
00:39:13,119 --> 00:39:14,480
an eight hundred or whatever it.

746
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 2: Is, it's life or death.

747
00:39:16,599 --> 00:39:20,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, whether it's just people don't have the experience

748
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,440
to like know just how often the best hand doesn't win,

749
00:39:24,039 --> 00:39:26,239
or you're playing with the guy who like never wins

750
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:30,000
the flip. People are just more miserable generally at lower stakes.

751
00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:32,920
Like I don't know if it's because the money means

752
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,280
more relatively or if it's just lack of poker experience

753
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:41,360
and not understanding like the total variance in tournament poker

754
00:39:42,039 --> 00:39:45,280
or what it is. But it's definitely there's no atmosphere

755
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,599
in the United States like the Poker Ghost studio when

756
00:39:48,599 --> 00:39:50,760
you're in a tournament. I mean it's not even close.

757
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,440
It's it's very tough tournaments, like it's big buy ins,

758
00:39:54,639 --> 00:39:59,719
but everyone's like friendly. There's really nobody. I can't think

759
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,719
of one person who's just like bad energy. Like you

760
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:05,920
can look at someone losing every day and they're just

761
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,280
gonna be smiling in the studio because like it's such

762
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,559
a great playing experience where I mean you play like

763
00:40:13,679 --> 00:40:16,480
a I don't know, win one k Venetian one k,

764
00:40:16,639 --> 00:40:19,440
Like these places are great, but there's always gonna be

765
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,840
a couple of people at the table that, like I think,

766
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:27,400
have victim mentality, which you cannot win if you have that,

767
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,280
in my opinion, if I assume you know what I

768
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:29,760
mean by that.

769
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. And it's funny because the way you

770
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,559
say it too, is that you sometimes sort of play

771
00:40:34,559 --> 00:40:37,320
the victim almost as like a meme. But for those people,

772
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:38,880
it's like it's like real emotion.

773
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I you'll hear me say say like I'll

774
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,079
get fucked in and all and oh my god, how

775
00:40:45,119 --> 00:40:48,400
do I never win? But like I'm just joking, Like

776
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,239
it's like it's fine, that's part of the game. Like

777
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,400
I'm gonna win some I'm gonna lose some where. Like

778
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,039
this guy loses Ace King versus Queen's at Venetian and

779
00:40:57,079 --> 00:40:59,320
he's like, I don't know why I play these fucking

780
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,360
tournaments comes down to a flip by I never win,

781
00:41:02,559 --> 00:41:04,719
like and he's being like dead serious and he's probably

782
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:06,920
driving home like on the phone with his wife, like

783
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,239
I'm done with these tournaments. It's such bullshit, Like these

784
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,760
people are so lucky where like you're just playing poker,

785
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,199
Like sometimes the math doesn't seem like it's like mathing.

786
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,360
I'm sure I've said I used to think and in

787
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,079
these bigger byans, just it just so happens. In like

788
00:41:23,159 --> 00:41:25,360
these twenty five k's, I can't win when I'm eighty

789
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,800
percent for a lot of chips. But like I know,

790
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,320
it's just random, Like I'm not the most unlucky person

791
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,480
in the world. Like it all generally somewhat evens out

792
00:41:34,519 --> 00:41:36,199
in the end. I would like to think.

793
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 2: I'd like to pivot sort of away from the poker

794
00:41:41,039 --> 00:41:46,000
table a little bit, because you've fostered some friendships that

795
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,880
start at the poker table, and then you guys take

796
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,159
that outside of poker. Yeah, and when I was coming

797
00:41:52,159 --> 00:41:55,440
into poker, that was golf. That's all people talked about.

798
00:41:55,559 --> 00:41:56,519
Golf here, golf.

799
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: There, big golf game tomorrow.

800
00:41:58,079 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 2: Actually, there we go, let's get into it. But also

801
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:02,719
the thing that I'm so curious about is the bowling

802
00:42:03,079 --> 00:42:06,840
because of all the things that I would have guessed

803
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,239
that you guys would get into, bowling would have been

804
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,639
super low in the list. I need to hear the

805
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:15,800
lure of how the the the high stakes poker community

806
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,559
became obsessed with bowling. Where did that start?

807
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 1: It probably was during a poker ghost series. Honestly, just

808
00:42:25,679 --> 00:42:28,679
you know, you bust out at seventy eight o'clock, you're

809
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,199
jones in for some action, and I mean, like it's

810
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,119
dark out, Like what sort of you got a bunch

811
00:42:35,119 --> 00:42:38,480
of poker players to be I think to be a

812
00:42:38,519 --> 00:42:41,599
successful like poker tournament player, you have to have some

813
00:42:41,639 --> 00:42:44,239
sort of like gamble in you. I feel like like

814
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,360
you have to take like the small edges, like you're

815
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,880
gonna flip a lot like you can't. I don't think

816
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,159
there's a poker player playing in like the studio, like

817
00:42:53,199 --> 00:42:58,519
a successful professional playing high stakes that generally will ever

818
00:42:58,599 --> 00:43:01,480
be in a spot and be like I don't I

819
00:43:01,599 --> 00:43:04,599
can't take this flip here, you know, like let me

820
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:09,320
just find chips in a better spot. Like that's more

821
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,000
of like a and I've said shit or thought things

822
00:43:13,039 --> 00:43:15,559
like this in like a big field, lower stakes tournament

823
00:43:15,599 --> 00:43:18,599
for sure. M but you just have to have some

824
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,639
gambling you to play poker tournaments and you bust that.

825
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,400
Let's say you bust out of a poker go ten

826
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,440
k twice in a day, and now it's eight o'clock

827
00:43:27,519 --> 00:43:30,960
and you're fucking steaming, like you want some action, you're

828
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,679
trying to get some money back. I mean, how many

829
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,920
like sort of athletic thing, even if it's not athletic,

830
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,119
just something to like gamble on that you can like

831
00:43:41,199 --> 00:43:43,840
participate in. Are there, Like there's really not that money.

832
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,320
It's dark out, so all outside things are pretty much done.

833
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,920
But it was during one of these series, it was like,

834
00:43:50,039 --> 00:43:52,760
let's go bowl at Red Rock. Like a bunch of

835
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:56,159
people live in Summerland that play these tournaments, and we

836
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,639
just it really just became a thing. Like the first

837
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:02,840
couple of weeks, we're all using house balls, nobody's that good.

838
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,079
All of a sudden, one or two guys start showing

839
00:44:06,159 --> 00:44:07,760
up with their own balls play So.

840
00:44:08,079 --> 00:44:10,199
Speaker 2: Okay, let's let's paint this picture here.

841
00:44:10,199 --> 00:44:11,320
Speaker 1: There was betting from day one.

842
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 2: Okay, betting from day one, But like, describe the scene.

843
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,400
I've been to Red Rock Bowling, Like you guys just

844
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,599
like show up, you guys, gotta get a few lanes,

845
00:44:18,599 --> 00:44:20,960
and you start throwing some balls, and are people already

846
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,480
trying to hustle and see who's got some talent. And

847
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,840
then at what point does you know whoever this person

848
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:28,679
was show up with their own ball, and you're like, okay,

849
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:30,519
now it's on, and now everyone's getting their own stuff.

850
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:34,079
Speaker 1: So I would actually say, as much as people are

851
00:44:34,119 --> 00:44:39,119
like gambling, the whole group, which is pretty much like

852
00:44:39,199 --> 00:44:42,480
Poker Go regulars, for the most part, everyone's friendly, and

853
00:44:42,519 --> 00:44:44,920
I would say there's a level of trust between everyone

854
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,519
where like I really don't think anybody would ever like

855
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,880
hustle anybody in this group. Like it's not like you

856
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,360
hear that story where these guys are swapping in the

857
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,280
tournament in the old days, but like one of them

858
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,400
didn't even join the tournament, the other already busted. Like

859
00:45:00,519 --> 00:45:03,360
nobody's like trying to like angle anybody out of money.

860
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:08,039
Like there's a lot of trust. I would say everyone generally,

861
00:45:08,199 --> 00:45:11,400
like has been bowling before, so would have some sort

862
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,920
of estimate of what they're gonna get. And originally we'd

863
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:19,199
have a sheet pen and paper. We'd make random teams

864
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:23,119
using an Orang like random number generator, like let's say

865
00:45:23,159 --> 00:45:25,800
four highest numbers on one team, four lowest, and we'd

866
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,079
handicap our scores, like what do you think you're gonna get?

867
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,960
And then let's say, like my handicap is one eighty

868
00:45:31,079 --> 00:45:33,000
and I bowl like a one eighty three, I'd be

869
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,840
plus three for the team. Right is how it initially started.

870
00:45:36,159 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 2: And who's who's in the core bowling group? Which players?

871
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: Well, now it's like twenty people.

872
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 2: Let's let's let's hear something.

873
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: Let's say uh, I mean, do you want to just

874
00:45:45,159 --> 00:45:48,639
say some if you? Pretty much? I don't want to

875
00:45:48,639 --> 00:45:52,360
say everyone. I don't know twenty guys that play poker

876
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:56,760
go every day. Like, Uh, let's say Nick Seward, Michael Burke,

877
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:04,159
Jesse Lonis, Bucky, Nick Schulman, Chewy, Eric Baldwin, Miles Malally,

878
00:46:05,159 --> 00:46:09,719
Jim Collapee. Uh, you could dish out some names. I

879
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,159
mean there's twenty and I named nine.

880
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:14,119
Speaker 2: It's already a phenomenal crew.

881
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,760
Speaker 1: I mean, oh my god, I'm drawing a blank. But everybody,

882
00:46:18,079 --> 00:46:23,559
Darren Rabinowitz, Danny Cepiel, you got any names from me?

883
00:46:23,599 --> 00:46:24,400
I'm sure they're there.

884
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,280
Speaker 2: I've never been invited, but I'd left to come watch

885
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:26,719
to say a.

886
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 1: G to the chat. I mean, it's literally nineteen or

887
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:29,599
twenty names.

888
00:46:29,599 --> 00:46:32,679
Speaker 2: I'm just so you guys started with like teams with

889
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:33,840
with your hands.

890
00:46:33,639 --> 00:46:38,159
Speaker 1: Started random teams. We'd have our handicaps and uh, if

891
00:46:38,159 --> 00:46:41,039
you beat your handicap, your plus that amount for the team.

892
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,440
It was initially it was like five hundred a man

893
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,920
on teams, but then obviously their side action. You know,

894
00:46:47,199 --> 00:46:50,039
you got me and Jesse there, and Jesse's like, who

895
00:46:50,039 --> 00:46:52,519
wants to bet me? Individually? And like we both grew

896
00:46:52,599 --> 00:46:56,559
up like athletes playing sports. Like I'm not gonna say no,

897
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,159
like a clue, how is he gonna beat me? So like,

898
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,760
let's say my handp is like five better than him,

899
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,440
I'm spotting him five. So we also will have that bet,

900
00:47:05,559 --> 00:47:10,800
and then everybody just man literally, everybody just bets everybody.

901
00:47:11,119 --> 00:47:12,400
It's pretty uh.

902
00:47:12,119 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 2: How loud does it get.

903
00:47:14,159 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 1: When me or Burke get a strike? The whole bowling

904
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:20,920
alley hears it? For sure, I would say. Then it

905
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:25,239
became I'm not gonna name their name, but somebody thought,

906
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,599
you know what, there's so much action getting down, like

907
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:34,360
let's really make this uh, let's really make this legit. Well,

908
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,639
we are in the league. But also, oh hold on,

909
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,400
I didn't name Ryan Reese before he fucking bowled the

910
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,639
perfect Game. So Ryan Reese is there.

911
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:46,159
Speaker 2: Where there's some multipliers attached to the payout that he received.

912
00:47:46,519 --> 00:47:51,079
Speaker 1: I'll say, luckily, I wasn't there that night, but a

913
00:47:51,119 --> 00:47:54,320
lot of side actions. Somebody created like a bowling sports

914
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,719
book where oh yeah, and also the handicaps were adjusted

915
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,039
each game. So let's say someone, you know, I mean,

916
00:48:01,079 --> 00:48:03,199
you just bowl with everybody. We'd get a few oh

917
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:09,079
sean Winter, big bowler. You just see how everyone's bowling,

918
00:48:09,079 --> 00:48:13,360
and the handicaps get adjusted, so it's always fair. Sam

919
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,840
Laskwitz is there. I'm just popping out these names that

920
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:22,239
I forgot. Nobody's hustling anybody. It's all very fair, zero

921
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:26,199
ev gambling and uh. But somebody created a bowling book

922
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:30,079
where everyone has like an over under. David Coleman was there.

923
00:48:30,679 --> 00:48:33,599
You have an over under. You have matchups. So like

924
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:38,559
Ryan being the best bowler, let's say he's versing like, oh,

925
00:48:38,559 --> 00:48:40,679
big Hooney. Let's say he's versing Big Hooney, right this,

926
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,440
Actually I'm not going to say who someone got buried

927
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,159
on a game like this. Ryan Reese is like a

928
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:51,440
minus six hundred favorite versus Hooney straight up, Like you

929
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:53,880
can also bet on Hooney plus five hundred or whatever

930
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,679
with this guy who's making the book. Somebody took Ryan

931
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,000
pretty big one game and it did not work out

932
00:49:00,119 --> 00:49:02,760
for them. Wow, So you can just bet on anything

933
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:06,119
at the bowling alley. And it became really big, and

934
00:49:06,159 --> 00:49:08,079
bowling just became a thing like I don't want to

935
00:49:08,079 --> 00:49:10,719
say every night, but a few times a week where

936
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:15,039
just after the tournaments, if people have busted, still looking

937
00:49:15,039 --> 00:49:17,679
for action, like we're going to the bowling alley, Like

938
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:21,239
we're having a good time at the bowling alley. Bowling betting.

939
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,920
It got so big that people that were still in

940
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:29,119
the tournament or have a wife or something and couldn't

941
00:49:29,159 --> 00:49:31,599
get out of the house that night. We were live

942
00:49:31,639 --> 00:49:33,960
streaming it, so you can still get action down on

943
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,199
the book if you weren't there betting on whoever. And

944
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,679
it just yeah, it became like a really big thing.

945
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 2: That's incredible. So do you go out and like when

946
00:49:43,039 --> 00:49:44,920
there's no bowling night, you go out and throw some

947
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:46,159
balls just to stay sharp?

948
00:49:46,559 --> 00:49:51,760
Speaker 1: Me personally, I don't do that. It's just like I

949
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:53,800
don't know. I just have a fun time going with

950
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:57,199
my friends, like betting on team versus team or myself

951
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,559
versus them. But there are definitely some guys I'm not

952
00:50:00,599 --> 00:50:03,159
going to call them out who have like gotten lessons

953
00:50:03,199 --> 00:50:07,320
like wow, Yeah, people people try about their money.

954
00:50:07,079 --> 00:50:09,280
Speaker 2: It starts to look like the golf of the early

955
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,000
two thousands, you know, and before.

956
00:50:11,079 --> 00:50:13,320
Speaker 1: Now everybody is much better now than we were at

957
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,840
the start. Everyone you see us walking into the bowling alley,

958
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,119
Everyone's wheeling in their balls, everyone's got shoes like it's

959
00:50:19,159 --> 00:50:22,519
like reservoir. It's honestly like funny. I mean I used

960
00:50:22,519 --> 00:50:26,760
to if you asked me, like a year ago, like oh, yeah,

961
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,159
Jesse's walking into a bowling alley with his own ball,

962
00:50:29,199 --> 00:50:31,159
I'd be like, what are you talking about, Like, no,

963
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:33,599
he's not stop, Like I wouldn't believe it. And now

964
00:50:33,639 --> 00:50:36,440
every single person has their own stuff and like they're

965
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,880
really into it. I mean, a new ball is coming

966
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:40,800
out that they think is gonna get them ten pins.

967
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:42,480
More like they're gonna get it. I promise.

968
00:50:42,599 --> 00:50:46,280
Speaker 2: This is incredible. This is honestly one of my favorite

969
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,679
sort of side shows when I'm at the studio and

970
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:51,679
I just like, over here, yeah, a lot of bowling talk,

971
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,679
bowling talk. Yeah, and first I thought you guys were kidding,

972
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:55,960
and it's actually legit.

973
00:50:56,039 --> 00:50:56,639
Speaker 1: It is for real.

974
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it. Well, hopefully we'll get some footage

975
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,039
of that one day. I'm sure there's lots of footage

976
00:51:02,039 --> 00:51:04,880
that we can't use because there's some Shenanigan's happening.

977
00:51:05,039 --> 00:51:08,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of a lot of stuff, maybe not

978
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:10,159
for TV going on out there.

979
00:51:10,679 --> 00:51:12,599
Speaker 2: It is. It is fantastic how you guys like have

980
00:51:12,639 --> 00:51:15,039
built like a big camaraderie even though you guys battle

981
00:51:15,039 --> 00:51:17,559
each other for thin edges at the poker table.

982
00:51:17,639 --> 00:51:21,039
Speaker 1: It really is crazy to think about because we're playing

983
00:51:21,079 --> 00:51:23,840
like these big buy in tournaments. It's our job to play.

984
00:51:24,039 --> 00:51:27,079
We want to beat each other, but like off the table,

985
00:51:27,159 --> 00:51:30,320
even on the table like friendly wise like everyone I

986
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,880
don't know, everybody just gets along and it's much better

987
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:35,840
this way. I mean, if we didn't like each other,

988
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,880
it would be sitting at the table like at the Venetian,

989
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:43,519
maybe no one would be talking. Instead we're at the

990
00:51:43,519 --> 00:51:46,480
table having a good time, like talking shit like I mean,

991
00:51:46,519 --> 00:51:48,599
someone makes like a bad call on the river or

992
00:51:48,639 --> 00:51:51,760
something and double someone up like you might hear like

993
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,559
someone throwing like a good call like jokingly, just like

994
00:51:55,639 --> 00:51:58,239
and it really does make it way more fun. But

995
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:03,119
it is crazy to like think about, like we're playing

996
00:52:03,159 --> 00:52:07,519
these guys for so much money, but we all really

997
00:52:07,519 --> 00:52:09,800
want to see each other do well, is it possible

998
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,800
for everyone to do well. Like, I don't know in

999
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,559
the long run, but like I'm not gonna ever anti

1000
00:52:15,639 --> 00:52:18,679
sweat somebody that I'm like friends with, Like obviously I

1001
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,880
want to beat them, but if I'm not like at

1002
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,000
the table against them, like I want to see them

1003
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:24,360
do well.

1004
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,800
Speaker 2: Truly, where do you feel like And this is maybe

1005
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,480
a little bit of a hard pivot, but where do

1006
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:33,000
you feel like you stand in sort of that PGT hierarchy?

1007
00:52:33,159 --> 00:52:35,239
You know, the PGT probably the best way to sort

1008
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:37,639
of look at who's doing a year round, who's who's

1009
00:52:37,679 --> 00:52:40,679
going to the places to you know, gather points. And

1010
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:42,960
the reason I say this is because you said in

1011
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:44,960
the twenty five ks you haven't been that lucky yet.

1012
00:52:45,159 --> 00:52:47,639
But it also shows me that you want to make

1013
00:52:47,679 --> 00:52:49,920
more of an effort to play those and take those chances.

1014
00:52:50,199 --> 00:52:51,719
So where do you feel Where do you feel like

1015
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:55,559
you stand right now within that ecosystem? And are there

1016
00:52:55,639 --> 00:52:57,840
next steps to take? Is there is there a vision

1017
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,840
for where you want to ultimately? And because to me,

1018
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:04,920
the comfort level that you've now sort of created for

1019
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:08,480
yourself in the studio just means that this is now

1020
00:53:08,519 --> 00:53:11,239
the life for however long you're able to do this,

1021
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:13,159
But how do you see that?

1022
00:53:14,599 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 1: I would say, like if I sit down at any

1023
00:53:18,039 --> 00:53:20,920
like big field event, like I'm gonna think I'm like

1024
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,159
one of the best in the tournament for sure when

1025
00:53:25,199 --> 00:53:29,719
you come to the studio, like it's everybody is good

1026
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,199
for the most part, and I think I try to

1027
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:36,920
portray like not like I'm hustling or something, but like

1028
00:53:37,159 --> 00:53:39,920
I like, I don't know if I've done it, but

1029
00:53:40,039 --> 00:53:42,679
I like to think that I have like a pretty

1030
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:46,800
uh not whally but more so like just a I

1031
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:50,480
don't give a fuck like attitude, and I think that

1032
00:53:51,159 --> 00:53:54,039
suits me well and like there's some truth to it.

1033
00:53:54,079 --> 00:53:55,960
But like I wouldn't be sitting at the table if

1034
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,280
like I thought I was losing money, you know, like

1035
00:53:58,519 --> 00:54:00,719
at the end of the day, like poke my job

1036
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:04,440
and I'll sit at a table with pretty much anyone

1037
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,320
and feel like I'm winning and I've had some success.

1038
00:54:08,079 --> 00:54:10,920
And I shouldn't say some success like I've done very

1039
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:14,599
well and I hope to only improve now. I would

1040
00:54:14,639 --> 00:54:17,760
say generally, how I approach like a poker go series

1041
00:54:18,599 --> 00:54:22,159
is pretty much anything ten K and under like if

1042
00:54:22,199 --> 00:54:24,920
I'm in town, I'm gonna be playing the only way

1043
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,719
not is let's say like I'm borking out a series

1044
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:33,079
so far, and maybe there's some like big field like

1045
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:36,760
sixteen hundred at like Winter Venetian and I've just had

1046
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,880
a bad series, like maybe I would skip the last

1047
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:43,199
couple ten k's or something to play that, but generally,

1048
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:45,920
like I'd much prefer to just be in all the

1049
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:49,199
ten ks and under and it's my favorite place to play.

1050
00:54:50,559 --> 00:54:53,119
I'm winning there, like I've done well, and I also

1051
00:54:53,199 --> 00:54:58,039
think like in some pretty big spots I've gotten unlucky,

1052
00:54:58,159 --> 00:55:01,000
so like I think I should even be like winning more.

1053
00:55:01,639 --> 00:55:04,480
But when it comes to higher than ten k, it's

1054
00:55:04,519 --> 00:55:07,360
really like if I'm having a good series, like sure,

1055
00:55:07,599 --> 00:55:09,920
I'll fire it, but like if I'm not, I'm not

1056
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:14,159
just gonna automatically sit just because like I don't know,

1057
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:18,400
I feel like I'm very like financially responsible where I'm

1058
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:20,639
not gonna like just if I'm not feeling great, like

1059
00:55:20,679 --> 00:55:23,800
I'm not gonna play something above ten k where like

1060
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:25,400
when I sit out a ten K and look around,

1061
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:28,920
like I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna win today. So hopefully

1062
00:55:29,079 --> 00:55:32,119
like in the future that ten K goes up to

1063
00:55:32,159 --> 00:55:34,320
like twenty five K or fifty k, where like if

1064
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,239
it's running, I'm in, you know, at this time, like

1065
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:41,320
I feel very comfortable ten k and under, and uh yeah,

1066
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,480
hopefully I feel the same about bigger buyings in the future.

1067
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 2: It's funny you say financially responsible because to many who

1068
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:52,920
would listen to you talk about gambling on bowling and

1069
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:55,840
having this sort of you know, sale of the attitude

1070
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:58,599
about poker from time to time, uh, sort of tied

1071
00:55:58,679 --> 00:56:03,239
into you bringing up the fact that you've always left gambling.

1072
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:06,239
You guys are throwing dice. There's the famous story and

1073
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:09,360
you can get into it about how blackcheck and sort

1074
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:14,039
of nearly ended you financially. So has that been a

1075
00:56:14,159 --> 00:56:17,360
lessons learned? Have you always been conservative but you allow

1076
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:19,719
yourself to sort of step outside of that? How do

1077
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:22,360
you how do you approach that? Because you also mentioned,

1078
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,920
you know, Josh and Daniel investing in you, So there's

1079
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:26,679
a lot of things coming together here all at the

1080
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:29,639
same time. How do you how do you juggle that? Well?

1081
00:56:29,679 --> 00:56:33,639
Speaker 1: I would say before, like I was not financially set,

1082
00:56:33,679 --> 00:56:36,599
but like before I ever had like I don't know,

1083
00:56:36,679 --> 00:56:39,159
like real money, where like I don't need to worry

1084
00:56:39,199 --> 00:56:43,719
about like rent for like a month or something like

1085
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:47,639
I would have bankroll on table at any point or

1086
00:56:47,679 --> 00:56:50,679
like now that I'm way more comfortable and like have

1087
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:54,199
a like money in the bank where like I'm not

1088
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:56,800
worrying about like paying my bills or anything. I never

1089
00:56:57,039 --> 00:56:58,960
want that to change, So I would say I'm definitely

1090
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,719
more responsible now we're in the past, Like I could

1091
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,360
just be broke the next day, so I never want

1092
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:07,159
that to ever be a thing again. So I would

1093
00:57:07,199 --> 00:57:09,599
say also, like I don't have like I said, like

1094
00:57:09,639 --> 00:57:11,800
I don't come from money, Like there's no like backup,

1095
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,280
Like if poker doesn't work out, It's not like I'm

1096
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,599
going to like work for some family business, Like there

1097
00:57:17,639 --> 00:57:21,239
is no backup. So I can't like just lose everything

1098
00:57:21,239 --> 00:57:23,199
that I have and like feel like it's gonna be

1099
00:57:23,239 --> 00:57:26,239
okay because it probably wouldn't be so.

1100
00:57:26,639 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 2: And then the Blackjack story real quick, yeah, might that

1101
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:31,559
have been a bit of a turning point and explain

1102
00:57:31,599 --> 00:57:32,239
what happened there.

1103
00:57:32,599 --> 00:57:36,159
Speaker 1: So this was like right after college, I graduated, I

1104
00:57:36,199 --> 00:57:38,480
went back to New York for like ten to eleven months,

1105
00:57:38,639 --> 00:57:41,280
and then I got a place in Florida on my own,

1106
00:57:41,519 --> 00:57:43,840
and I want to say I lost like almost eighty

1107
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:47,320
percent of what I had within like the first month,

1108
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,760
Like dabbling in blackjack, like I just randomly played one

1109
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:55,079
night after winning huge in a cash session and just

1110
00:57:55,119 --> 00:57:57,320
got buried and was chasing it for like a week

1111
00:57:57,639 --> 00:58:00,400
and just kept digging myself a deeper hole and then

1112
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:03,719
had to like drop down in stakes, and uh, yeah,

1113
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:07,039
that was brutal. And I didn't touch a blackjack table

1114
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:10,519
or really anything in the pit for the longest time.

1115
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:15,519
And I would say, now, actually not when like poker

1116
00:58:15,599 --> 00:58:18,599
is going on, but like when there's really no poker,

1117
00:58:18,679 --> 00:58:21,360
Like let's say we're bowling, me and a couple guys

1118
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:23,440
might try to hit them hard at the blackjack table

1119
00:58:23,519 --> 00:58:25,760
and try to spin it up, but like it's really

1120
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:28,280
just like a fun thing to do with friends for entertainment,

1121
00:58:28,519 --> 00:58:31,440
like I'm trying to grind, like I'm not chasing any

1122
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:34,239
sort of money. Like, so, like I can play from

1123
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:37,039
time to time now, but it's way different. Like I

1124
00:58:37,039 --> 00:58:40,519
didn't play for fucking years because like I was scared,

1125
00:58:40,599 --> 00:58:44,079
like I would just lose all my fucking money again.

1126
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,119
And honestly, it was one of the greatest things that

1127
00:58:47,199 --> 00:58:50,039
ever happened to me because I was able to like

1128
00:58:50,079 --> 00:58:54,159
treat poker more so as like a job and uh

1129
00:58:54,559 --> 00:58:56,679
put money away and not blow it in the pit.

1130
00:58:57,599 --> 00:59:01,719
Where now like I would say, like maybe I have

1131
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:07,400
a little like gambling stash and after bowling me and

1132
00:59:08,639 --> 00:59:11,280
a couple guys might be like, let's fucking get them

1133
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:14,159
tonight and we'll just chop the action three or four

1134
00:59:14,159 --> 00:59:16,840
ways and just like play some blackjack. But it's totally

1135
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:20,760
for fun and it's rare, and yes, so I shouldn't

1136
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:23,320
say like I'll never play again, but it's a different

1137
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:24,679
type of play, right.

1138
00:59:27,159 --> 00:59:29,719
Speaker 2: So then the progression as far as buying levels go,

1139
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:33,360
did you need that support from Daniel and Josh to

1140
00:59:33,719 --> 00:59:38,199
accomplish that? Were you so comfortable that there was really

1141
00:59:38,199 --> 00:59:40,599
no need to move up or was there an urge

1142
00:59:40,639 --> 00:59:44,039
to perhaps try and battle those guys and that support

1143
00:59:44,159 --> 00:59:46,320
was necessary to feel comfortable.

1144
00:59:46,639 --> 00:59:49,039
Speaker 1: Like as far as ten k's and what not going. Yeah,

1145
00:59:49,199 --> 00:59:52,360
So I would say initially when me and Daniel started,

1146
00:59:52,519 --> 00:59:55,639
or me Daniel and Josh, it was just for the

1147
00:59:55,719 --> 00:59:59,239
world series. This was I believe it was my first

1148
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:02,800
year here years ago, and I'd always talk to like

1149
01:00:03,559 --> 01:00:07,360
mid Steaks friends that I had who were backed, and

1150
01:00:07,519 --> 01:00:09,840
just all of them were in the same headspace like,

1151
01:00:11,199 --> 01:00:13,079
oh my god, if I win this, I don't even

1152
01:00:13,159 --> 01:00:16,039
get any money. Like they all just sounded like they

1153
01:00:16,079 --> 01:00:18,440
weren't like having a great time with the whole backing,

1154
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:23,760
So I was almost like not super excited to get

1155
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:26,360
into it. But like this is Daniel Legrand who and

1156
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:29,960
josh Aria like a month gonna be like, oh, actually,

1157
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:31,880
I'm good. I'm gonna stick to my two hundreds and

1158
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:36,360
four hundreds this summer. So initially, it like how backing

1159
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:40,199
works is let's say, like you play a two K

1160
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:44,119
and you lose, like your two K makeup and like

1161
01:00:44,159 --> 01:00:46,760
you're always in makeup, Like you lose one tournament, you're

1162
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,360
now in makeup and then whenever you're up. So let's

1163
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:51,400
say the next tournament's a one K and I cash

1164
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:54,400
for five. We're in for three K, so I would

1165
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:56,920
pay back the three and then you chop the remaining

1166
01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:58,920
two is how it works, and now you're back to zero.

1167
01:00:59,599 --> 01:01:03,039
So I'd say, initially, like I don't know, I would

1168
01:01:03,039 --> 01:01:05,760
be in like I remember I was like twenty seven

1169
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:08,719
hundred dollars in makeup, which is literally nothing like less

1170
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,519
than a buy and now and I would be like,

1171
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:13,960
oh my God, the second I get even like I'm

1172
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:17,159
out of here, like I can't do this. And so

1173
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:20,000
that first summer I was a little like iffy about

1174
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:22,480
it and I didn't love it. And after the summer

1175
01:01:22,519 --> 01:01:26,239
he offered me to like continue it, and I was like, uh,

1176
01:01:26,719 --> 01:01:29,079
you know what, I appreciate it so much, but like,

1177
01:01:29,559 --> 01:01:32,320
I just don't think it's for me, Like it was

1178
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:34,880
just kind of messing with me mentally. I was almost

1179
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:38,079
scared to play my game and potentially bust because I

1180
01:01:38,079 --> 01:01:42,159
didn't want, like to be another one thousand dollars in makeup.

1181
01:01:42,679 --> 01:01:45,840
A few months passed by, I think it was about

1182
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:48,960
to be like people were bringing up like the Wind

1183
01:01:49,039 --> 01:01:52,800
December and like all these great events that were gonna

1184
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:57,079
be and I'm like looking and I'm seeing I don't

1185
01:01:57,119 --> 01:01:59,320
really remember what my banker was at the time, but

1186
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:01,639
I'm like, man, you know, it'd be nice to have

1187
01:02:01,679 --> 01:02:04,639
that backing right now. So I texted Daniel and Josh

1188
01:02:04,719 --> 01:02:06,840
again like a few months later and was like, hey, uh,

1189
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:12,199
like can we continue, Like can is this offer still good?

1190
01:02:12,559 --> 01:02:16,360
And Uh, Luckily for me, they were still down with it,

1191
01:02:16,519 --> 01:02:20,719
and we've just continued ever since, and it's just really

1192
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:24,519
nice knowing Like let's say I would play like a

1193
01:02:24,559 --> 01:02:26,760
ten k, which would be super rare. Like let's say

1194
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:29,480
it's like the main event. I don't know, my friends

1195
01:02:29,519 --> 01:02:33,880
would have like five percent each, like I would probably

1196
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:36,559
only play like one bullet, Like I'm trying to be responsible,

1197
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:40,440
and I mean, if you're in a tournament that like

1198
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:45,400
you're not comfortable potentially rebuying, Like I just truly think

1199
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:48,360
unless it's like a freeze out, like you're just drawing dead,

1200
01:02:48,679 --> 01:02:51,400
like you can't be scared to bust. Like sometimes like

1201
01:02:52,239 --> 01:02:55,119
going for this bluff or like being all in in

1202
01:02:55,199 --> 01:02:57,119
this spot is just the right move, and if it

1203
01:02:57,159 --> 01:02:59,440
doesn't work out, like you have to be willing to

1204
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:02,960
try again. The first poker Go tournament that I won,

1205
01:03:03,079 --> 01:03:04,920
it was a ten k for two hundred and fifty

1206
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:09,480
five thousand, and like I remember just running some like

1207
01:03:09,599 --> 01:03:13,159
absurd bluff. I want to say. It was like while

1208
01:03:13,199 --> 01:03:17,199
registration was open for like stacks and luckily he folded

1209
01:03:17,199 --> 01:03:19,760
the river and it was like pretty pivotal for me

1210
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:23,760
because I got short near the bubble. But like you

1211
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:27,320
need chips to like win tournaments, so you need to

1212
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:31,559
like chip up or else, like you're you're gonna lose

1213
01:03:31,599 --> 01:03:33,760
all ends, so you want to when you do lose,

1214
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:35,599
you want to still be in the tournament. But I

1215
01:03:35,679 --> 01:03:38,000
just remember, like let's say I was playing this on

1216
01:03:38,079 --> 01:03:40,679
my own, like I would not have won for this bluff,

1217
01:03:41,599 --> 01:03:43,840
and I wouldn't have had the chips to like survive

1218
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:46,840
the bubble and then like later win the tournament. But

1219
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:49,519
me knowing, like, Okay, if this doesn't work out, like

1220
01:03:49,559 --> 01:03:52,960
I'm just gonna rebuy, Like I think that's very crucial,

1221
01:03:53,039 --> 01:03:56,400
Like it's I think it's an advantage having a lot

1222
01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:59,719
of money behind you where they trust your game and

1223
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:03,039
like you can just rebuy if it doesn't work out,

1224
01:04:03,079 --> 01:04:05,760
like that's okay, you don't need to worry about, Oh

1225
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:08,360
this guy had five percent, Like is he in for

1226
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:11,280
a second bullet? Like oh fuck, do I really want

1227
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:14,119
to rebuy? Like my bills are so expensive, like I

1228
01:04:14,119 --> 01:04:17,440
could use this ten k, Like I just don't think

1229
01:04:18,159 --> 01:04:21,119
you can win like this long term if you're thinking

1230
01:04:21,159 --> 01:04:23,679
like that. So for me to have Daniel and Josh

1231
01:04:23,719 --> 01:04:27,559
behind me with a very good amount of money, I

1232
01:04:27,559 --> 01:04:30,719
would think, and them trusting like my thought process and

1233
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:33,360
playing like I think that's crucial for me, And I

1234
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:35,960
definitely would not have the success that I've had in

1235
01:04:36,039 --> 01:04:38,039
like mid and high stakes.

1236
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:42,440
Speaker 2: What do you think it initially was that made Daniel

1237
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:45,079
believe in you? Because obviously there was the big battle

1238
01:04:45,119 --> 01:04:48,480
you and Lennon Tice, the studying versus more the sort

1239
01:04:48,519 --> 01:04:50,840
of live player approach, if you want to put it

1240
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:53,039
that way, But do you think there was a specific

1241
01:04:53,079 --> 01:04:55,920
conversation you had or specific moments that made him sort

1242
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:58,239
of think like, oh, Jeremy is the guy I have

1243
01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:00,119
to get behind because in a way.

1244
01:05:00,199 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 1: Well, this the bet with Landon was a year after

1245
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:06,519
I'd already been with Daniel and Josh, which I think

1246
01:05:06,559 --> 01:05:10,119
people don't know. So I mean I used to, like

1247
01:05:10,159 --> 01:05:12,880
we still do now. But it's obviously you know, Daniel's

1248
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:16,400
super into like golfing, and he was playing way more

1249
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:19,480
when we started. We used to talk fucking poker hands,

1250
01:05:19,519 --> 01:05:21,840
any like spot that I had or even they had,

1251
01:05:21,880 --> 01:05:23,639
Like we would just text in a group chat and

1252
01:05:23,679 --> 01:05:26,519
get each other's opinions, and I think just doing that

1253
01:05:26,599 --> 01:05:29,360
for like a year made him like believe in my

1254
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:30,639
thought process and whatnot.

1255
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:34,079
Speaker 2: It's interesting because I also assumed that the land and

1256
01:05:34,119 --> 01:05:35,760
things sort of kicked all this stuff off, But it

1257
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:36,440
was actually it.

1258
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,880
Speaker 1: Was a year prior. Yeah, I want a bunch of

1259
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:42,880
like those lower by ins at winn in Venetian and

1260
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:46,480
they would post your winner's photo. And so I have

1261
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:48,920
a theory that I don't even know is true. Daniel

1262
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:52,440
tweeted like, oh my god, is this kid like the

1263
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:54,880
next like big thing in poker, Like I know it's

1264
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:57,360
low buy ins, but this is like unheard of or

1265
01:05:58,559 --> 01:06:01,960
whatever the tweet was. But what I found out later

1266
01:06:02,239 --> 01:06:07,719
was I believe Josh was the best man at his

1267
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:11,119
friend's wedding who I had played a decent amount of

1268
01:06:11,159 --> 01:06:14,360
cash with in Florida, and I didn't know this. I

1269
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:16,320
found this out later, or maybe the other way around.

1270
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:18,559
The guy was the best man at Josh's wedding something

1271
01:06:18,639 --> 01:06:22,679
like this. And I'm gonna assume they did some sort

1272
01:06:22,679 --> 01:06:26,159
of background information on me, like whether it's talking with

1273
01:06:26,199 --> 01:06:30,000
people I've played with about like my character or my

1274
01:06:30,079 --> 01:06:32,519
play or whatever it was, because I mean right away

1275
01:06:32,559 --> 01:06:35,079
when me and Daniel started, The first time I met

1276
01:06:35,159 --> 01:06:37,280
him was when he like dropped me off money for

1277
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:40,119
the World series and like it was a decent amount

1278
01:06:40,159 --> 01:06:42,719
of money, like this is big trust, Like who's to

1279
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:44,960
say I'm not taking this fucking money and just getting

1280
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:48,599
out of town or something, you know, and like no

1281
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:52,639
questions on Like initially, I think I could play like

1282
01:06:54,159 --> 01:06:56,400
I don't remember, maybe it was like five kN under

1283
01:06:56,519 --> 01:06:59,159
or something, just no questions asked, and if I wanted

1284
01:06:59,199 --> 01:07:02,880
to play like a ten to ask them where, I mean,

1285
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:05,280
you got to have a lot of trust, I would think.

1286
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:08,480
And we just texted, we were called. We hadn't like

1287
01:07:08,599 --> 01:07:11,000
met yet. Yeah, so I'm gonna assume they like did

1288
01:07:11,039 --> 01:07:14,400
their due diligence behind the scenes. So my theory is

1289
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:19,280
that like Josh set all of this up and knew

1290
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:21,679
that I wouldn't be able to like say no to

1291
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:25,199
Daniel because they're like great friends, business partners, whatever it

1292
01:07:25,199 --> 01:07:27,800
may be. But honestly, I've never even talked to them

1293
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,239
about it, so I don't know, like what made Daniel

1294
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:32,239
put out that tweet and get in contact with me.

1295
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:37,480
Speaker 2: It's so fascinating how you sort of paved your own

1296
01:07:37,519 --> 01:07:40,719
way with those results. You got noticed, and you didn't

1297
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:43,280
just get noticed by, you know, a random scout on

1298
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:46,239
the sidelines. No, it was like Dane Legrano. Yeah, maybe

1299
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:48,119
maybe whether it was through Josh or not, they were

1300
01:07:48,119 --> 01:07:51,679
obviously like very close friends. But if you sort of

1301
01:07:51,679 --> 01:07:54,960
think back of your maybe your poker fan self back

1302
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:57,840
in the day to then land in that position, it

1303
01:07:57,920 --> 01:07:58,800
must be pretty surreal.

1304
01:07:59,199 --> 01:08:01,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean I've remember I didn't believe it. I

1305
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:04,760
was playing basketball. I'd only been in Vegas like a

1306
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:08,440
month or two before, like he contacted me, and I

1307
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:12,039
remember I finished playing and I looked at my phone

1308
01:08:12,199 --> 01:08:15,639
and I had like all these messages for multiple people

1309
01:08:15,719 --> 01:08:20,119
being like did you see Daniel's tweet? And like I thought,

1310
01:08:20,399 --> 01:08:22,279
like someone's running some sort of bit on me, Like

1311
01:08:22,319 --> 01:08:24,800
I didn't understand, Like what are you talking about? They

1312
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:29,199
were like look, and he basically said what I said

1313
01:08:29,199 --> 01:08:31,199
before about it being like impressive, and.

1314
01:08:31,239 --> 01:08:32,439
Speaker 2: Uh, I remember the tweet.

1315
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:34,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, he offered me like a stake for the WSOP,

1316
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:37,920
which was like a month or two later, and we

1317
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:42,319
just like talked before then and got comfortable with each other,

1318
01:08:42,359 --> 01:08:45,039
I think, And yeah, I mean the rest is history,

1319
01:08:45,079 --> 01:08:48,960
and gladly it's really worked out. And I mean if

1320
01:08:49,159 --> 01:08:51,399
I came to Vegas playing two and four hundred dollars

1321
01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:55,000
tournaments like literally just trying to get by, and now like,

1322
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:59,439
for instance, I'm playing golf with Daniel, Josh and Danny

1323
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:03,319
Cpeel to we're gonna be gambling, I'm sure, and like

1324
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:06,760
then the World Series is coming up and I could

1325
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:09,720
pretty much play any event I want in part to

1326
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:12,119
Daniel and Josh. And it's like if you told me

1327
01:09:12,159 --> 01:09:15,239
this a few years ago, like it truly wouldn't even

1328
01:09:15,279 --> 01:09:20,520
be believable, like I would I'd be like a good one,

1329
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:23,920
like see you at the win six hundred like, but

1330
01:09:24,039 --> 01:09:26,399
now like I can just play a ten k and

1331
01:09:26,399 --> 01:09:28,760
I'm golfing with fucking Daniel and Josh, who when I

1332
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:31,600
was getting into poker, I'm watching them on fucking TV

1333
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:34,319
playing and uh.

1334
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:35,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's also that's also established for the viewers at

1335
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:39,399
home that you are probably talking just as much shit

1336
01:09:40,319 --> 01:09:42,239
to Daniel and Josh on the golf course or at

1337
01:09:42,239 --> 01:09:45,439
the poker table, because you know, you're, you're, you're friends

1338
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:47,800
with these guys. Now it's it's no longer that you

1339
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:50,000
know they are somewhere out there and you're you're, you

1340
01:09:50,039 --> 01:09:52,279
know this guy who is just getting started, you like

1341
01:09:52,319 --> 01:09:53,319
you're you're one of the guys.

1342
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:56,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean obviously I'm not like in their class,

1343
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:59,479
like their careers, like they're like Poker Hall of famers,

1344
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:02,880
like I've said it a bunch, like I think the

1345
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:06,840
Michael Jordan of poker, you know, so like obviously nowhere

1346
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:10,039
like near that status, but yeah, like it's not crazy

1347
01:10:10,079 --> 01:10:11,640
that like I can sit in a golf cart with

1348
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:14,520
Daniel and like just be talking about life with him,

1349
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:18,319
Like we're like somewhat like business partners, I would say,

1350
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:23,239
and like also friends, like we if I ever needed something,

1351
01:10:23,359 --> 01:10:27,920
like whether it's financial or like just about life, like

1352
01:10:28,079 --> 01:10:30,319
I believe that he would be there for me. And

1353
01:10:30,399 --> 01:10:32,680
like that's just crazy to think about because he's like

1354
01:10:34,399 --> 01:10:36,640
when I was getting into poker, like watching him was

1355
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:40,119
like I'm very into basketball, would be like watching Michael Jordan.

1356
01:10:40,239 --> 01:10:43,520
Like I can't imagine like being like this with Michael Jordan,

1357
01:10:44,039 --> 01:10:46,680
And it's really the same thing. It's uh crazy that

1358
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:50,680
I have him as a person to like just be

1359
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:52,600
with me along the way and help me out, Like

1360
01:10:53,399 --> 01:10:55,439
I wouldn't be in the position I am without him,

1361
01:10:55,479 --> 01:10:55,840
for sure.

1362
01:10:57,039 --> 01:10:58,600
Speaker 2: I want to wrap up with this, and it's been

1363
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:06,159
super interesting conversation. But with how you seemingly have unlocked

1364
01:11:06,199 --> 01:11:09,159
something new every single year or made some sort of progression,

1365
01:11:09,199 --> 01:11:10,800
where do you see this going? Where do you want

1366
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:13,000
this to go, do you see yourself as like a

1367
01:11:13,079 --> 01:11:16,760
lifer in this world? Your passion for the game, you know,

1368
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:19,640
has almost no equal because of how much time you

1369
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:22,159
put in at the live felt, which not many people

1370
01:11:22,199 --> 01:11:25,359
can stomach for that many years. So how does the

1371
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:28,800
the poker life of Jeremy Becker revolve from here on out?

1372
01:11:30,039 --> 01:11:32,880
Speaker 1: I would say, and I've definitely made an effort to

1373
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:38,039
do this in playing much less low stakes poker, really

1374
01:11:38,079 --> 01:11:41,079
making an effort to play just like the good mid

1375
01:11:41,119 --> 01:11:45,520
steak stuff and higher buy and stuff, because I truly do,

1376
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:48,479
like want to be one of the best at this level.

1377
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:51,399
And to me, like, I think experience is worth a

1378
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:54,319
ton and that's really the only way I'm going to

1379
01:11:54,359 --> 01:11:57,760
be able to do it. People used to ask me,

1380
01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:00,319
let's say, like a year ago, oh, do you see

1381
01:12:00,359 --> 01:12:03,479
yourself like going to like an EPT or going to

1382
01:12:03,560 --> 01:12:07,600
like Triden just basically like traveling the world playing And

1383
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:10,840
I was like, no, Like, dude, i live two minutes

1384
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:14,560
from the casino in Vegas, Like I'm just gonna play

1385
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:18,960
sports like gamble on some basketball like and play poker.

1386
01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:23,800
And now like like I could see myself playing Trident's

1387
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:26,880
one day or going to like Barcelona for like a

1388
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:30,079
big series. Like I've never really cared what people think,

1389
01:12:30,119 --> 01:12:33,199
and I really do try to like portray like not

1390
01:12:33,279 --> 01:12:36,199
a whaling mentality, but just like, oh, I don't care,

1391
01:12:36,359 --> 01:12:39,199
how like I don't fucking know what these charts say,

1392
01:12:39,560 --> 01:12:42,880
and like that's true, but like I don't know, let's say,

1393
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:45,520
in like twenty thirty years, like I would like to

1394
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:48,199
be talked about as like one of the best poker

1395
01:12:48,279 --> 01:12:51,560
players there were, and I think to do that, like

1396
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:54,279
I just need to play bigger and bigger, and uh

1397
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:57,720
obviously I would like to uh get like rich rich

1398
01:12:57,800 --> 01:13:00,399
from poker. That would be great, like playing a fucking

1399
01:13:00,439 --> 01:13:04,239
game that I love. But yeah, like I'm not trying

1400
01:13:04,239 --> 01:13:07,279
to just hit and run poker, make millions and then

1401
01:13:07,359 --> 01:13:10,520
just like leave on some island. Like I'm trying to

1402
01:13:10,560 --> 01:13:13,239
make all that money so that I can play bigger

1403
01:13:13,239 --> 01:13:16,239
and bigger tournaments basically just like reinvesting in myself on

1404
01:13:16,279 --> 01:13:19,800
the poker table. And uh so, yeah, I just want

1405
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:22,760
to play more high stakes poker and almost have a

1406
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:27,159
reputation in these fields like I do in like mid

1407
01:13:27,239 --> 01:13:28,640
steaks low stakes fields.

1408
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:31,159
Speaker 2: I just want to go on the record here that

1409
01:13:31,239 --> 01:13:34,840
I want to purchase the rights to Jeremy Becker goes

1410
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:37,279
to Europe if that becomes a documentary, because that would

1411
01:13:37,279 --> 01:13:38,399
be a phenomenal watch.

1412
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:40,079
Speaker 1: There'd be some material there.

1413
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:43,319
Speaker 2: We might have to put it behind the paywall for it.

1414
01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:45,560
Speaker 1: I mean, if I'm sitting at the table with some

1415
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:50,520
euro who's fucking waiting till one second on the clock

1416
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:53,399
left to make every action, He's gonna hear it from me. Like,

1417
01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:55,399
as much as I try to be nice and friendly

1418
01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:58,720
with everyone, the unnecessary tanking is not for me. And

1419
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:00,479
apparently there's a lot of that out there.

1420
01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:03,920
Speaker 2: So well, you did not hesitate for one second answer

1421
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:06,920
any of these questions. I really appreciate it, Jeremy Becker.

1422
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:09,600
It's been a pleasure having you on the show the

1423
01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:13,279
very first In this series, we'll have weekly episodes like Subscribe,

1424
01:14:13,359 --> 01:14:15,840
leave a common to all that good stuff follow Jeremy

1425
01:14:15,880 --> 01:14:19,119
on socials, will have links in the description. And all

1426
01:14:19,119 --> 01:14:20,560
that rests me to say, is you know, go win

1427
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:21,399
a bracelet or something.

1428
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:24,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope. So I'm gonna have a good amount

1429
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:26,319
of money down on myself this summer.

1430
01:14:26,359 --> 01:14:29,079
Speaker 2: I'm going to prop bets, side bets. What's what's going on?

1431
01:14:29,279 --> 01:14:33,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, just I'm into the whole fantasy league that Daniel runs.

1432
01:14:34,159 --> 01:14:37,239
I'll have some side bets on myself, just like winning

1433
01:14:37,279 --> 01:14:42,319
a bracelet versus others. Every year I've said, like I mean,

1434
01:14:42,359 --> 01:14:44,399
I say every year, it's been three years, like, oh,

1435
01:14:44,439 --> 01:14:46,520
I want to play wsop, and then a couple of

1436
01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:50,439
days in I'm like, okay, I'm going to the win,

1437
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:53,840
just like the whole playing experience, but now I'm playing bigger.

1438
01:14:54,479 --> 01:14:57,920
They have the app. You're not waiting around on these

1439
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:02,680
lines like you were. Generally you get better like dealers

1440
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:06,920
in the higher buyings and fantasy points. I mean, I'm

1441
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:09,600
gonna be chasing it as well as money obviously.

1442
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:13,319
Speaker 2: So what's the worth of wind to bracelet as outside

1443
01:15:13,359 --> 01:15:16,479
of the tournament payout? What do we got going here?

1444
01:15:17,479 --> 01:15:20,880
Speaker 1: I really am not too sure yet. We're a little

1445
01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:25,159
over a week away, but it's gonna be worth a lot,

1446
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:28,880
but not even just for like that, like I want

1447
01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:31,880
to win it, like for me and like Daniel and

1448
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:35,079
Josh and just like like I'm gonna be very committed

1449
01:15:35,119 --> 01:15:38,199
to WSOP this summer and I'm gonna put my money

1450
01:15:38,239 --> 01:15:40,720
where my mouth is and try to back it up

1451
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:41,399
for sure.

1452
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:44,720
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty six Bracelet or Jeremy Becker. Thanks for coming,

1453
01:15:44,760 --> 01:15:45,399
Thanks for watching,