Speaker 1: You just have to have some gambling you to play
poker tournaments. Like there's no like backup, Like if poker
doesn't work out, it's not like I'm gonna like work
for some family business, like there is no backup.
Speaker 2: Hey, this is Remco. Thanks for clicking on the video.
This is my brand new podcast called Face the Ace,
in which I talked to the most interesting people in
poker and go a little deeper into the topics you
most care about. Enjoy one person I've never had on
the podcast because you weren't big time yet back when
I was doing shows, mister Jeremy Becker. Jeremy, welcome to
the show. Thanks for having me pleasure to have you
here on the show. We got a ton to dive into.
It's called the human side of poker, and I figured
the most human of them all who claims that the
computers might not be as necessary might just be you.
Do you think that among the crowd of players you
move around in that's correct?
Speaker 1: I could maybe think of one other person possibly that's
not into the whole computer solver stuff. I don't even
know if it's widely known, so I don't really want
to put them out there, but yeah, I think pretty
much everyone is into it except me.
Speaker 2: So as far as that style or that approach to
a game that generally is now seen as solved or
a game that's seen as you know, too tough to
beat without those tools, was it an active decision? Are you?
Are you now just resisting and holding on? Are you
perhaps tempted to dive into it sooner than later?
Speaker 1: I would say it's a bit tempting, just because, like now,
being surrounded by these people, I kind of see like
just how good they are, and a big reason is
because of how hard they study and whatnot. But I
don't really think for me personally, just like my style,
getting into that would do me much good. I think
I would lose some of the stuff that I do
well and maybe become like a worse version of them.
So for me, I think I'm just really holding off, honestly.
Speaker 2: So when you learn, I'm assuming it's a lot through
observing and seeing how people approach certain things. It almost
must mean that you pick up on certain things stylistically
that they have learned from studying and you learned from observing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say I definitely have a good idea
of how the solver like thinks through hands, just from
like talking poker hands with my friends who do study them,
but like me personally, like I've never pulled one up
on the computer or anything like this, but I would
say from like playing against them and talking with them
through hands, like I have some sort of idea of
like what sort of hands want to do certain things
on different board textures and whatnot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the accomplishments that you've had so far, in
my opinion, are even more impressive when you're not utilizing
basically the full array of of what is out there
right now. For the people that are watching this, by
the way, we are on video and we're also on
audio feeds for those that like to listen to this
as they walk the dog or do chores at home.
This gentleman five point three million in career earnings. And
I'm a huge hend and mob nerd. I've always been
a hand and mob nerd. And one of the things
I always love to look at is what's the biggest
live cash in relation to the total earnings, because it
says it a little bit about you know, how did
that person get there? You win the main event for
ten million, and you got eleven million in earnings. You know, then,
what have you really done for me lately? But in
your case, for the longest time, your biggest cash was
less than ten percent of your total earnings. You have
almost six hundred live results in tournament buyings going down
as low as free roles. I almost want to say,
like you play literally everything, and that I think says
something perhaps that's even more important than a player's app
to have to study. Is your appetite to put in
the hours, grind, have the discipline to keep showing up
day after day. Do you think that is a quality
in and of itself and do you think that that
is something that you utilize for your success.
Speaker 1: I think that there's this term. Actually I've been hearing
a lot lady like a pub stomper. Do you know
have any idea? So it's basically like how somebody plays
against like the recreational player, or like sort of like
fish and big fields, if you will. And I think
in like these lower but like for instance, during the summer,
like the fifteen hundred monster stack or something like. I
think certain players who like theoretically maybe aren't like in
quotes like a good poker player just do really well
in these sorts of fields, and I think those are
the type of people that I played and because my
buy and range, I mean, I would say my average
buy in for a very long time was like two
hundred dollars, And these are the types of players that
are going to be playing these things. And I think
I just really got good from like experience and trial
and error of playing these player types. And even to
this day, like you go play a thirty five hundred
WPT or something like, you're gonna see I don't want
to say a majority, but a good amount of players
in the field are the types of players that I
was playing in these two hundred for a really long time.
Let me think of an example. I don't want to
say put anyone on blast here, because I think there's
just people like in the studio that like are great
poker players, but like you're really playing a different game
when you're playing in like these big field like lower
buy in like events, and I think that's just like
a whole you need to play a whole different style.
And I think I've gotten like I would take myself
first almost anybody in America in these like sort of
events where like theoretically, yeah, people are gonna be way
like better than me, but they don't really know like
the response to what some of these people are doing. Yeah,
I think that's probably my biggest like, uh, what's the
word your your edge? So yeah, I think I have
a really big edge in that, like especially going into
the summer, like my like let's say, uh, somebody like
who's been catching a lot of heat, like Maurice Hawkins.
I think like Sean Deeve is actually really good at this.
He has tons of experience and success in these sorts
of events where like you just know how to play
like the average recreational and that's the majority of the
playerpool you're gonna see in these big field events. So
I think I've done really well and that's like where
my edge comes from in that.
Speaker 2: So do you think that guys that exclusively play ten
K plus buy ins are unable to adjust in a
meaningful way against that different sort of player pool, Because
to me, it almost seems sometimes like if you study
and just learn how to play and then have some
I guess tools to your disposal mentally to adjust based
on opponents, then it shouldn't be that difficult to adjust downwards.
It's almost more difficult to adjust upwards as a competition increases.
Or do you think that you know, players that only
play those big bunds have huge leaks and if they do.
Speaker 1: What are some of those I don't want to say leaks,
just like like I'm not going to sit here and
be like, oh, Steven Chidwick has no shot in the
Milliemaker because like he's one of the best poker players
in the world. Yeah, but like I just think maybe
there will be certain spots where like he'll have a
certain hand that like, okay, like I have this sort
of like blocker, I just have to call here, Like
my hand is great as a call here. But when
you're playing like Rick from fucking Arkansas, like Rick's just
never bluffing his tournament life off here like ever, so
regardless of like your hand, like you almost just have
like a pure fold, you know, And maybe I mean
I don't want to say like guys like that aren't
looking for these sorts of things, but like batsizing patterns
with these type of players are is like the number
one most important thing. Like even if it's like let's
say pre flop, it's like raise and then three bet
like three acts and then I'm in like the small
blind with like a blaw let's say, like some shitty ace.
But I just saw last orbit, the same guy three
beat and showed down Kings and he went like four
x in like a similar position. Like he's just typically
not going to be as strong, So I don't mind
like just going with my read and taking some shit
hand and like trying to get all this dead money
where I think, like I keep using Stevie just because
like he's one of the best, yeah poker players, and
he may fucking be really well in these fields, Like
I just don't know, I've never played with him in them,
but he might just look down at like Acedu's off
right there and be like all right, fold and like
not think twice. But this guy's literally telling you, like
by his sizing, that he just doesn't have like a
hand that he's willing to go with. And I just
like don't care of looking stupid. Really where I think
that's really important in tournaments, I.
Speaker 2: Think you hit on something really interesting that the not
looking stupid part. Sometimes when you observe, especially final tables,
it becomes like a math contest in many ways, where
I see you guys playing in the studio on day one,
lots of bands, are lots of chatter, people running around.
We've done some of the streaming where you know, you
see some more of that insight sort of baseball where
you guys just have like talk about prop bets and
all sorts of nonsense, and then the final table rolls
around and it's pretty quiet and people focus on the math.
And the thing that I always think when I watched
that is like, Oh, they don't want to look stupid,
they don't want to make a mistake because this is
on TV. This will make a highlight reel, or maybe
they'll their their investor or their friend will text them
afterwards and say, you know this, this spot is a
pure fold stuff like that, and just not having that
or not having those f's to give in spots like
that could definitely be a place where you get an edge.
Do you think that there's room for that too at
the studio level or are you completely switching up your game?
Speaker 1: Am I switching up my game at a final table?
Speaker 2: Year?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: No I between in the studio in general, because the.
Speaker 1: I think definitely when I first started playing in the studio,
I was very like trying to take it way more
serious than like, for instance, one k at Venetian in
this just in the sense of like table presence, like
I don't like we've never played poker together, but I
mean at the table like I'm fucking yeah, and like
I'm talking shit like I'm talking during the hand, you know,
and from the outside looking in, you might be like, oh,
this kid just doesn't care, like he's just having a
good time. But like for me, that's what works and
makes me like most comfortable and just talking out loud,
like poker is a social game, Like I'm not there
to make friends, like I'm there to make money, but
I want to like have fun while doing it. Where
I found myself in the studio, it wasn't really nervous,
just like, oh my god, this is a ten k
like way above my typical buy and range, Like let
me be like more serious and at the beginning, like
I found that that just wasn't like working for me,
Like I would just find myself like getting short later
in the tournament or for whatever reason, like just the
whole quiet serious like doesn't work for me personally. Where
and I remember I literally texted Daniel and Josh who
invested in me in poker, and I was like, I'm
gonna play this series. It was the Bounty series. I
think there were six tournaments and I ft'd like five
of them and one one, and I was just like,
going into the series, I'm gonna treat these tournaments like
a four hundred a Venetian. I said, just like, by
the way I'm like acting in my table presence, and
it fucking really worked out. If that was a coincidence,
I don't know. But ever since then, I've just been
way more like comfortable and uh more of like myself
at the table, and I think that's really important. But
as for like playing style, No, if you played the
same way as you do in like a big field
one k in a ten k at the studio, like
you're just gonna be dead. So I definitely do play
a little bit different.
Speaker 2: So it's interesting because you mentioned Daniel Legrand or josh
Aria who invests in you, and we can touch on
this on this later, but I find the progression interesting
because the string of results you've had in Lord buying
events show to your point that you've sort of figured
out how to be successful in those. Now you have
sort of an idea and understanding of what works, what
doesn't work, and how to sort of go through that
mindfield type setting. And a player that comes to mind
who does this too very well is helping who really
benefits from you know, players that are recreational, that are
just having fun, that at some point will give their
chips away and then for you to then move up
through the ranks as your bankroll grows. Makes total sense
from a progression point of view, but from a approach
point of view and the way you see poker and
the way you see you know, how do I beat
this game? It almost doesn't make sense because that's not
what your game is sort of built on. So how
did you make that change?
Speaker 1: I think a big thing for me in like studio success,
just the way that I learn is more like trial
and error and playing experience. And also I used to
watch these Gigi Super Mis final tables, you know what
that is. So these are like the best players in
the world, and they post these final tables on YouTube
with the cards up, and you just see like every
single hand what people are folding and going with in
certain spots and whatnot. And I really watched like all
of those for a long time, and the types of
players in those events are more of like the studio types,
like very studied, calculated, and I honestly think that helped
me a lot, as well as just talking with people
that play in there through hands as I became more
and more friendly with them and just recognizing like patterns
in the way that they play, and just like using
logic throughout the hand, Like I think the way that
I play is rather than like, Okay, this hand is
like a go in this spot, I'm more so like
what can I do to confuse my opponent, where like Okay,
this bord texture, you're gonna want to bet like thirty
percent pot where I might be like all right on
this board texture, like maybe I'm going to bet eighty
percent because I want the reaction of like what the
fuck is he doing? Like that's not a thing, Like
what is he trying to say he has? If you
can confuse your opponent, I think, and be like unpredictable
to me, I think that's the hardest to play against,
rather than like doing everything like correctly and just playing
the same as everybody else and pretty much just like
I just want to make it a guessing game for
my opponent, and I think for me personally, like that's
what fits me well, where for others maybe that won't work.
But just like I don't know, everybody's a different person
and has slightly different style, so I don't know. I
think I found what works for me, and I'm always
trying to come up with different ideas and whatnot.
Speaker 2: When you describe this pivot in playing styles or this
this trial and error way of sort of you know,
figuring it out more us, you almost make it seem
like this is like a simple thing where you have
been successful at a certain level and now we're going
to just you know, go through the next phase and
play these higher buyings and I will again, you know,
figure it out which you have. But it's almost like
you're under selling whatever the X factor is that you
have or you possess, or that your mind goes into
that allows you to do that, because the way you
describe it, it almost you're almost convincing me that I
can go to the studio and figure it out. But
that's obviously going to backfire horribly and my wife would
divorce me and we would lose all our money. But
in your case, you were able to do that what
gave you the confidence that you could do that?
Speaker 1: Man. I really just think like I started, like I
don't know what you know about like my start, Like
when I finished college, I really did not have much
money at all, and like got offered a job and
turned it down to play poker, and like my deal
with my mom was if I lost that money, I
would get job. And it was just like back against
the wall, like I can't lose this money. I'm not
sitting in a fucking office every day like I have
to play poker. And I just like basically I just
really came from nothing, like there was no backup playing
like nobody like I don't come from money, Like my
family wasn't like okay, you keep losing, like here's more,
eventually you'll spin it up. So I just had to
like figure out ways to win. And uh, I used
to just play cash grinding every day and eventually just
like climbed up the ranks and finally got into tournaments.
And I just like it's really like playing experience and
trial and error. Like I get asked a lot from
like mid stakes and low steaks guys for coaching, and
I'm really like I just don't think it would be
worth it to you right now. Like I can't explain
sometimes what goes on in my mind, Like a spot
will just come to me and I'll just be like,
this guy just doesn't fucking have it, and I really
can't explain why, Like it just I just go with
my gut and generally i'd like to think it's right. Yeah,
Like a lot of my thought process I just can't
really explain to people. Just for whatever reason, like I
get a feeling like this will work or this won't work,
or this guy has this or that, and I just
trust myself and I think rather than like second guessing myself,
I really just go with what I'm thinking. And I'm
not scared to like look like an idiot. I mean
that happens, but I think long term, like my decisions
will just work out profitably.
Speaker 2: I think and correct me if I'm wrong. This is
probably much more a personality trait than than you might
even understand, you know, just from like a poker perspective,
because it sounds as though that initial decision to go
for it and to play poker was sort of rooted
in the same way of thinking, where you would figure
it out and you will figure it out because you
had the determination and you clearly have the intelligence to
try and do that. Is that something you recognize from
earlier in your life, or maybe your mom will say
something like, oh, yeah, you know the way that you
are now. I saw that growing up. Like did you
attach yourself to certain things and you figured them out
on the go, or maybe maybe poker was the first
sort of thing to really click for you. But do
you have examples of that?
Speaker 1: I would just say I was a very big I
mean it's all relative, but like growing up, let's say
middle school, high school, like me and my group of friends,
like we're gambling our net worths every day against each
other in like whatever game, whether it's like golf, basketball,
like shooting dice, like literally anything, and it's just like
I've had it all on the line so many times,
just like believing in myself. Like literally we used to
just roll one dice and like the first one to
roll the six just wins the pot. And we'd have
like literally all of our money in the middle of
the pool table rolling this dice, and like in my
head with the dice in my hand, like it's like
run it again, like I'm gonna get the fucking six,
like and there's nothing, there's no strategy or anything. You
just like I just really like believed in myself and
in those cases, like it did not work out a
lot of the time, but just like feeling like for
whatever reason that like I have this edge and like
I will like get it done. Like I don't know,
that's just always stuck with me, and I've had to
like figure it out, and luckily I've been successful generally.
Speaker 2: So let's go back to your cash game era. Was
that sort of a linear way to make money where
you know, you found your stakes, you moved up. You know,
it was easy enough to play in an environment where
you know, if you have your sort of approach and
your determination, you will make money or potentially were there
are massive ups and downs where there were times where
you were not sure if it was going to.
Speaker 1: Work out well at first, Like in college. So I
went to college in Florida, and I grew up gambling
with my friends. So when I got to college, I
was less than ten minutes from hard Rock casino in Tampa,
and me and my friends, I turned my college friends
into gamblers that never really gambled before, and all of
a sudden now they're djens and UH. In the casino,
to play like blackjack or roulette whatever, you need to
be twenty one, but to play poker you only need
to be eighteen. So initially we went to the casino
just looking to gamble, and we couldn't gamble on anything,
only poker. So I was almost like forced to because
I just needed to like scratch that itch. I was
basically like forced to play poker, and I just really
loved it. And initially, obviously I just lost and lost.
But I was playing one to one, no limit, one
hundred dollars max, and I think I was coming in
for the minimum was either forty or sixty. I think
it was forty, And initially I was just coming in
for the minimum a bunch and uh just losing every
buy in and uh going south sometimes when I needed
to to make sure I had money to like get
a cab back because I knew I was going to
lose in the end. But even then, like almost like
the parlay ticket, like I'm coming in for the minimum,
trying to like spin it up, you know, and not
risk like a lot, which in that time like buying
in for a hundred and just getting stacked right away
like that hurt. Like I'm a college kid. I saved
some money, like my mom would make me put away
some money. When I was in high school, I was
a caddie out a golf course, so I was gambling
most of it, but some was in the bank. And
now I'm using all of that to play poker and
just lost for like a year straight, making excuses to
my mom why, like I need my savings from saving
up my whole life. Just I used to tell her
anything because they were very anti gambling and they knew
that I was a gambler in high school. I'm saying, like, yeah,
it's my friend's birthday. We went to the strip club,
and I fucking dusted off five hundred, Like that's better
than telling my mom I'm playing poker at the casino.
So yeah, I just was kind of forced to play
poker when I went to the casino, and I fell
in love with it and eventually just started winning and
moved to one, two and then two, five, five, ten,
et cetera.
Speaker 2: Was was there like a light bulb moment where things
turned or did you perhaps talk to the right person
or was there you know, I mean, you mentioned like,
you know, watching a lot of contents, was there a
progression that you can sort of root into a certain point?
Speaker 1: After college, I started playing at Resorts World Cat Skills
in New York, and my family's from New York, so
I moved back to New York after I graduated and
was trying to spin up this little money that I
had to support myself. I was living at home, and
in ten months I spun it to like, let's say,
a little bit on their one hundred k, just from
like I don't know, I didn't really have expenses. I stopped,
like I was watching high stakes poker, like Poker Go,
whatever YouTube poker there was. I was just non stop
watching it when I wasn't playing, and everyone's so big
on the bank roll management. I'm watching whatever sort of videos,
and I'm like, just the action in Florida was much
better than New York, and I got really motivated to
like save up and go back down to Florida. My
best friend from college had an extra year of college.
He played lacrosse, had an extra year of eligibility, so like,
I wanted to go down there with him and just
hang out and play poker every day. And I got
motivated to like just have like some sort of bankroll
management where it wasn't just about playing, It was about
making money so that I had enough to like go
down there. And yeah, I don't know, I think that
motivated me. And then when I started to make money,
I didn't like want to spend it. I just wanted
it so that I could play bigger stakes. And yeah,
that's really what I was motivated by. I was getting
my own place down in Tampa.
Speaker 2: How do you go from hiding from your your your
family that you're you know, spending money or losing money
playing poker too, then coming to them saying, look, I've
won all this money but playing poker. Was there you know,
a moment where you had to come clean that in
the like, oh Mom, sorry, the I did. I never
went to the strip club. This was all poker money.
But now look at me, now I'm doing great. Do
you remember perhaps that conversation.
Speaker 1: Well, I actually didn't admit to my mom that I
was playing as much as I was in college until
like maybe a couple of years ago, so I had that.
I think she always knew.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I mean she knew. I just what
can she say if she sees like my bank account
like going up and me like being able to support myself.
Like she made very clear when I did choose to
play poker that not that like my family has money,
but like she's my mom. So like let's say I
was ever like debt broke, like you would think your
parents would like take you in or whatever, but she's like,
if you're choosing to gamble for a living rather than
take a job, like I won't be helping you out
financially at all. So initially I believe I needed to borrow,
like I was playing one two, three hundred dollars max
like after college, and uh, I think I got down
to like a couple buy ins left, and I was
like I always came in for the max. I was like, Mom,
just please, like let me have a hundred bucks or something,
just so unprepared, like if I need to rebuy, and
like she gave me that like hundred or whatever it
was and was like never again, like I'm not giving
you anything, And I ended up spinning it up and
like I gave her back. I think I liked double,
Like if she gave me a hundred, I gave her
back too, and was like thank you, Like they weren't
thrilled with it, But I mean, what can they say
when they see me supporting myself and they're not giving
me any money for anything and I'm getting my own place, Like,
I mean, there's they know how much I love it? Like,
what can they really say?
Speaker 2: Was there a moment where she realized that you were
not just paying the bills but you were actually becoming
kind of like a star in the game, or you
picked up some notoriety or some level of poker celebrity
if you will, because you know, your name hit my
radar many years ago when you were still just you know,
playing the dailies, and that became almost like a meme.
Speaker 1: You know you're that many though. It was literally I
moved to Vegas, Like you didn't know who I was
when I lived in Florida, right, And I didn't move
to Vegas. I moved here three years and two months ago,
I think it was. So it wasn't like many years ago.
It was. I believe I moved at the beginning of
March twenty twenty three or end of February twenty twenty three,
and before the before that, like my parents were on board,
but they always like they did not think it was
like for sure gonna work out. Like always in the
back of my mom's mind is like, just maybe it
would be better if, like you got a job before
I moved here. It was in January of twenty twenty three.
I believe I won a four hundred dollars tournament for
like thirty five K or something, and honestly, if I
didn't win that tournament, like I was honestly thinking of
getting like some sort of second secondhand income, just not
necessarily taking a job. But just like you know, this
tournament thing just is fucking brutal. Like I felt like
I'm getting fucked in every deep tournament. Now I'm playing
for like I'm playing like two hundreds and four hundreds
with like sub ten k up top typically, but I
just like never seem to like get first or second,
and it's really hard to beat low stakes tournaments with
break and whatnot. I just remember going I went down
to Miami where the other hard rock is, and I
remember thinking like, if this series doesn't work out, like
I'm just going back to playing cash and maybe getting
some sort of job.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And then I won that and it was just like
a complete one eighty, like Okay, fuck it, I'm going
to Vegas, like let's let's play these tournaments.
Speaker 2: That's so insane. And I'm looking at your at your
results now, and it's actually kind of funny because I
never fully realized how many cashes you already had just
in Florida playing the like sort of the smaller buying
tournaments there.
Speaker 1: The one eighty triple stack that was like that was
your thing, that was the tournament every day pretty much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But then as you described this, that sounds like
an enormous break even stretch where you're just like in
the washing machine, where you know, you're just sort of
spun around every single day and you're you're keeping your
head just above the water until that one score comes.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say break even stretch, Like I was definitely
making money and I'm also playing cash like I would
bust this tournament and like I'm jumping straight into two, five, five, ten,
whatever's going on. But I mean playing low stakes like
that with like my sort of lifestyle, just like I'm
not shy about like spending money. It's definitely tough to
like save anything when you're playing that small and if
you go on like cold streaks or something like. It's
not like you just stop spending money, like you have
to live. Yeah, I mean I was. I was literally
playing every day all day Like this one eighty was
at like five or six o'clock. I'm going to the
casino at eleven am. I'm grinding cash for six seven hours.
Then I'm gonna eat and jump in the tournament, and
then after the tournament, I'm gonna play cash a couple
more hours every day, just like trying to just make
money as well as like get playing experience, Like I
fucking love sitting at the table and playing, especially if
like everyone's talking having a good time.
Speaker 2: I mean, you have to love it. You are that committed,
and I mean hours wise. The guys who play online,
you know they'll they'll rival you. You know they play
every single day too. But the fact that you chose
this pathway it says a lot about your personality because
you could have also just found some location where grinding
online is available and putting the hours there. There's plenty
of stories of those people. Did it ever cross your
mind that that would be both a good proving ground,
a good place to get a lot of volume in
and perhaps to have, you know, lower expenses and just
make money that way.
Speaker 1: No, I've never had any interest of playing on the computer.
I just for me, there's something just about like seeing
the person and like being there physically and just I
mean this probably sounds stupid, but just like feeling like
the vibes of the person and like their energy. Like
I really think that's like a big thing. Like if
there's some guy sitting at the table and he's just
talking about how unlucky he is, Like that's the guy
I want to be all in against. Like you know,
I'm sitting next to uh Aram Zobian one day. This
guy can't lose it all in like the way he's
tabling his cards, like he just can't lose. Like there's
just something about energy, and it's like if I have
a close spot and like he's all in with cards
to come, like I'm just not gonna take it. And
then there's like another guy saying like how unlucky he is,
and there's a close spot where like I could pass,
I could go with it, like we're gonna run it,
and like I just really am a big believer in that.
And for whatever reason, I think it's like true, like
energy is very real, and I don't think you can
feel that through like any computer screen.
Speaker 2: Well, on the on the subject of energy, I've been
around the studio plenty of times where your energy seems
to be all over the place, and I've I've also
come across your share of frustration, as you know, you
get eliminated, or you get bad beat, or you know
at the final table things don't work out. You also
live it like you live You live the tournament experience
in a way that most people would say for a
professional that's like unhealthy, but you almost seem to like
need that in order to make it count or make
you perform at your best when you care that much.
Speaker 1: I think I really lately, I shouldn't even say lately,
I don't know last year or so, it just so happens.
Like variance is very real. I've played a handful of
twenty five k's and all of them but one I've
been all in pre flop with aces or kings or
pair over pair, whatever the case is, for like infinite
chips and just never won, like I've just gotten fucked in,
like in the biggest like buy in spots of like
my young poker career in these big binds, and I
think part of it is like sitting there like come on, hold,
no King, or like whatever it is where like the
people that I've lost to just so happened to be
like easygoing, played like one hundred k's, two hundred k's
whatever the case may be, and like not that they
don't care, but like it's just another all in for them,
no matter the buy in. Where if I'm playing like
in eleven hundred, like obviously I want to win, but
like I'm not sweating the runout, like it's not that
I don't care, it's just like whatever I've done this
thousands of times. I've only been all in in like
these really big buy ins for me a few times,
and like I really wanted to win and for some reason,
like I've just gotten fucked in pretty much all them.
Not that like I go in saying like oh my god,
I'm all in with aces again, like I'm so unlucky.
But rather than just like sitting back and just watching
the runout in my head, I'm like, no, King, like
don't fuck me like this again, Like and I don't know,
there's just something too that I think, so I'm really
trying hard not to sweat these all ins in these
bigger buy ins. My mindset, I think is actually very
bad the way that I think about all ins. Like
if you're a professional, let's say I'm all in with
you and I'm eighty percent, you're twenty percent, and like
I lose. I think the mindset should be like, oh,
nothing I can do, Like I did my job, like
onto the next where like that's what really tilts me.
Where like if I make a mistake, like let's say
I run a bad bluff, or like I make a
bad call, like that doesn't tilt me because like that's
my mistake and like rather than being fucked by the deck,
like I lost this tournament because I made a bad decision,
and like I can live with that because I think
it can be fixed, where I think most pro's mindsets
are the opposite, or like if it's their mistake, they're
gonna be pissed off and that's gonna tilt them. Where
I'm the complete opposite, where like I'm tilted when like
I did everything good, put myself in a great position
to get all the chips, and I got fucked. That's
what like I'll be driving home like fuck this, where
like if it's my fault, I literally forget about it
a minute later, like I know I can fix it.
That's fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's so wild because you do describe exactly
what most poker pros usually say, where you know it's
it's it's out of my hands now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm the I mean I think you said you're
gonna have Chewy on here at some point. Yeah, like
I'm sure Chewy's very like at peace, like I made
the right decision, like oh, well, see you again tomorrow,
where like I'm the complete opposite. And yes, you said
that you've seen like let's say I get fucked in
a big hand, I'm like, oh fuck this, Like but
it's all not that it's a bit right, but it's
like I'm joking around, like I'm not actually like, oh
my god, I never fucking win this like it I'm
just fucking around like I'm just I don't know. It's
like hard on my sleeve, like I'm not actually like
I shouldn't say I'm not tilted, but I'm not actually
Like when I say, like when will it end there? Whatever,
that like that's not real, Like I know I've been
fortunate in life, you know, like I mean it was
I don't know, let's say a little less than ten
years ago. I have a couple thousand dollars to my name,
like buying in for one hundred dollars, Like now I'm
playing ten thousand dollars tournaments, you know, so like the
one will it end? Like I'm very fortunate, and I
know that.
Speaker 2: It's probably not ending anytime soon. I think you're you're
you're too committed to the No.
Speaker 1: It does end, like I'm very trying to be positivity.
I'm gonna win this all, but like when I get fucked,
like you're gonna know it.
Speaker 2: That's good though, And the one thing people have to
realize when you're in the studio and and these guys
are playing on day one, it's Jeremy Becker just leading
the circus and you're you're walking between the tables, You're
you're you're engaging with everyone. You've become friends with all
these guys, and it seems like such a casual atmosphere.
And that is something that's I think often not understood
from the outside, is how incredibly casual these ten k
plus buyings are. Because I also, you know, go to
Venetian all the time, and it feels like the WSP
Main Events final table, like on day one of a
four hundred, and in the studio it looks like I'm
walking into a home game. What is that about?
Speaker 1: So I think in the studio it's gonna be either
like you're a very successful poker professional that like just
plays these ten k's all the time and you're like proven,
you have investors believing in you to play these tournaments,
or you just have the money yourself, or you're just
gonna be like a very well off like businessman that's
in there like having fun like and those are really
I can't really think of another player type. Correct me
if you think otherwise.
Speaker 2: I think you're right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so everyone, all the professionals like have played
poker long enough, or like when you lose an eighty twenty,
like no one's gonna slam the table and be like
what the fuck? How do you call there? Like it's
literally just like knock on the table, like good game,
Like I'm fucking rebuyings you soon and it's just laughs.
Or it's like the rit the wealthy business guy who's like, ah,
that was a blast. That's poker, like see you guys later,
where when you go to like Venetian and play like
an eight hundred or whatever it.
Speaker 2: Is, it's life or death.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, whether it's just people don't have the experience
to like know just how often the best hand doesn't win,
or you're playing with the guy who like never wins
the flip. People are just more miserable generally at lower stakes.
Like I don't know if it's because the money means
more relatively or if it's just lack of poker experience
and not understanding like the total variance in tournament poker
or what it is. But it's definitely there's no atmosphere
in the United States like the Poker Ghost studio when
you're in a tournament. I mean it's not even close.
It's it's very tough tournaments, like it's big buy ins,
but everyone's like friendly. There's really nobody. I can't think
of one person who's just like bad energy. Like you
can look at someone losing every day and they're just
gonna be smiling in the studio because like it's such
a great playing experience where I mean you play like
a I don't know, win one k Venetian one k,
Like these places are great, but there's always gonna be
a couple of people at the table that, like I think,
have victim mentality, which you cannot win if you have that,
in my opinion, if I assume you know what I
mean by that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. And it's funny because the way you
say it too, is that you sometimes sort of play
the victim almost as like a meme. But for those people,
it's like it's like real emotion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I you'll hear me say say like I'll
get fucked in and all and oh my god, how
do I never win? But like I'm just joking, Like
it's like it's fine, that's part of the game. Like
I'm gonna win some I'm gonna lose some where. Like
this guy loses Ace King versus Queen's at Venetian and
he's like, I don't know why I play these fucking
tournaments comes down to a flip by I never win,
like and he's being like dead serious and he's probably
driving home like on the phone with his wife, like
I'm done with these tournaments. It's such bullshit, Like these
people are so lucky where like you're just playing poker,
Like sometimes the math doesn't seem like it's like mathing.
I'm sure I've said I used to think and in
these bigger byans, just it just so happens. In like
these twenty five k's, I can't win when I'm eighty
percent for a lot of chips. But like I know,
it's just random, Like I'm not the most unlucky person
in the world. Like it all generally somewhat evens out
in the end. I would like to think.
Speaker 2: I'd like to pivot sort of away from the poker
table a little bit, because you've fostered some friendships that
start at the poker table, and then you guys take
that outside of poker. Yeah, and when I was coming
into poker, that was golf. That's all people talked about.
Golf here, golf.
Speaker 1: There, big golf game tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Actually, there we go, let's get into it. But also
the thing that I'm so curious about is the bowling
because of all the things that I would have guessed
that you guys would get into, bowling would have been
super low in the list. I need to hear the
lure of how the the the high stakes poker community
became obsessed with bowling. Where did that start?
Speaker 1: It probably was during a poker ghost series. Honestly, just
you know, you bust out at seventy eight o'clock, you're
jones in for some action, and I mean, like it's
dark out, Like what sort of you got a bunch
of poker players to be I think to be a
successful like poker tournament player, you have to have some
sort of like gamble in you. I feel like like
you have to take like the small edges, like you're
gonna flip a lot like you can't. I don't think
there's a poker player playing in like the studio, like
a successful professional playing high stakes that generally will ever
be in a spot and be like I don't I
can't take this flip here, you know, like let me
just find chips in a better spot. Like that's more
of like a and I've said shit or thought things
like this in like a big field, lower stakes tournament
for sure. M but you just have to have some
gambling you to play poker tournaments and you bust that.
Let's say you bust out of a poker go ten
k twice in a day, and now it's eight o'clock
and you're fucking steaming, like you want some action, you're
trying to get some money back. I mean, how many
like sort of athletic thing, even if it's not athletic,
just something to like gamble on that you can like
participate in. Are there, Like there's really not that money.
It's dark out, so all outside things are pretty much done.
But it was during one of these series, it was like,
let's go bowl at Red Rock. Like a bunch of
people live in Summerland that play these tournaments, and we
just it really just became a thing. Like the first
couple of weeks, we're all using house balls, nobody's that good.
All of a sudden, one or two guys start showing
up with their own balls play So.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's let's paint this picture here.
Speaker 1: There was betting from day one.
Speaker 2: Okay, betting from day one, But like, describe the scene.
I've been to Red Rock Bowling, Like you guys just
like show up, you guys, gotta get a few lanes,
and you start throwing some balls, and are people already
trying to hustle and see who's got some talent. And
then at what point does you know whoever this person
was show up with their own ball, and you're like, okay,
now it's on, and now everyone's getting their own stuff.
Speaker 1: So I would actually say, as much as people are
like gambling, the whole group, which is pretty much like
Poker Go regulars, for the most part, everyone's friendly, and
I would say there's a level of trust between everyone
where like I really don't think anybody would ever like
hustle anybody in this group. Like it's not like you
hear that story where these guys are swapping in the
tournament in the old days, but like one of them
didn't even join the tournament, the other already busted. Like
nobody's like trying to like angle anybody out of money.
Like there's a lot of trust. I would say everyone generally,
like has been bowling before, so would have some sort
of estimate of what they're gonna get. And originally we'd
have a sheet pen and paper. We'd make random teams
using an Orang like random number generator, like let's say
four highest numbers on one team, four lowest, and we'd
handicap our scores, like what do you think you're gonna get?
And then let's say, like my handicap is one eighty
and I bowl like a one eighty three, I'd be
plus three for the team. Right is how it initially started.
Speaker 2: And who's who's in the core bowling group? Which players?
Speaker 1: Well, now it's like twenty people.
Speaker 2: Let's let's let's hear something.
Speaker 1: Let's say uh, I mean, do you want to just
say some if you? Pretty much? I don't want to
say everyone. I don't know twenty guys that play poker
go every day. Like, Uh, let's say Nick Seward, Michael Burke,
Jesse Lonis, Bucky, Nick Schulman, Chewy, Eric Baldwin, Miles Malally,
Jim Collapee. Uh, you could dish out some names. I
mean there's twenty and I named nine.
Speaker 2: It's already a phenomenal crew.
Speaker 1: I mean, oh my god, I'm drawing a blank. But everybody,
Darren Rabinowitz, Danny Cepiel, you got any names from me?
I'm sure they're there.
Speaker 2: I've never been invited, but I'd left to come watch
to say a.
Speaker 1: G to the chat. I mean, it's literally nineteen or
twenty names.
Speaker 2: I'm just so you guys started with like teams with
with your hands.
Speaker 1: Started random teams. We'd have our handicaps and uh, if
you beat your handicap, your plus that amount for the team.
It was initially it was like five hundred a man
on teams, but then obviously their side action. You know,
you got me and Jesse there, and Jesse's like, who
wants to bet me? Individually? And like we both grew
up like athletes playing sports. Like I'm not gonna say no,
like a clue, how is he gonna beat me? So like,
let's say my handp is like five better than him,
I'm spotting him five. So we also will have that bet,
and then everybody just man literally, everybody just bets everybody.
It's pretty uh.
Speaker 2: How loud does it get.
Speaker 1: When me or Burke get a strike? The whole bowling
alley hears it? For sure, I would say. Then it
became I'm not gonna name their name, but somebody thought,
you know what, there's so much action getting down, like
let's really make this uh, let's really make this legit. Well,
we are in the league. But also, oh hold on,
I didn't name Ryan Reese before he fucking bowled the
perfect Game. So Ryan Reese is there.
Speaker 2: Where there's some multipliers attached to the payout that he received.
Speaker 1: I'll say, luckily, I wasn't there that night, but a
lot of side actions. Somebody created like a bowling sports
book where oh yeah, and also the handicaps were adjusted
each game. So let's say someone, you know, I mean,
you just bowl with everybody. We'd get a few oh
sean Winter, big bowler. You just see how everyone's bowling,
and the handicaps get adjusted, so it's always fair. Sam
Laskwitz is there. I'm just popping out these names that
I forgot. Nobody's hustling anybody. It's all very fair, zero
ev gambling and uh. But somebody created a bowling book
where everyone has like an over under. David Coleman was there.
You have an over under. You have matchups. So like
Ryan being the best bowler, let's say he's versing like, oh,
big Hooney. Let's say he's versing Big Hooney, right this,
Actually I'm not going to say who someone got buried
on a game like this. Ryan Reese is like a
minus six hundred favorite versus Hooney straight up, Like you
can also bet on Hooney plus five hundred or whatever
with this guy who's making the book. Somebody took Ryan
pretty big one game and it did not work out
for them. Wow, So you can just bet on anything
at the bowling alley. And it became really big, and
bowling just became a thing like I don't want to
say every night, but a few times a week where
just after the tournaments, if people have busted, still looking
for action, like we're going to the bowling alley, Like
we're having a good time at the bowling alley. Bowling betting.
It got so big that people that were still in
the tournament or have a wife or something and couldn't
get out of the house that night. We were live
streaming it, so you can still get action down on
the book if you weren't there betting on whoever. And
it just yeah, it became like a really big thing.
Speaker 2: That's incredible. So do you go out and like when
there's no bowling night, you go out and throw some
balls just to stay sharp?
Speaker 1: Me personally, I don't do that. It's just like I
don't know. I just have a fun time going with
my friends, like betting on team versus team or myself
versus them. But there are definitely some guys I'm not
going to call them out who have like gotten lessons
like wow, Yeah, people people try about their money.
Speaker 2: It starts to look like the golf of the early
two thousands, you know, and before.
Speaker 1: Now everybody is much better now than we were at
the start. Everyone you see us walking into the bowling alley,
Everyone's wheeling in their balls, everyone's got shoes like it's
like reservoir. It's honestly like funny. I mean I used
to if you asked me, like a year ago, like oh, yeah,
Jesse's walking into a bowling alley with his own ball,
I'd be like, what are you talking about, Like, no,
he's not stop, Like I wouldn't believe it. And now
every single person has their own stuff and like they're
really into it. I mean, a new ball is coming
out that they think is gonna get them ten pins.
More like they're gonna get it. I promise.
Speaker 2: This is incredible. This is honestly one of my favorite
sort of side shows when I'm at the studio and
I just like, over here, yeah, a lot of bowling talk,
bowling talk. Yeah, and first I thought you guys were kidding,
and it's actually legit.
Speaker 1: It is for real.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it. Well, hopefully we'll get some footage
of that one day. I'm sure there's lots of footage
that we can't use because there's some Shenanigan's happening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of a lot of stuff, maybe not
for TV going on out there.
Speaker 2: It is. It is fantastic how you guys like have
built like a big camaraderie even though you guys battle
each other for thin edges at the poker table.
Speaker 1: It really is crazy to think about because we're playing
like these big buy in tournaments. It's our job to play.
We want to beat each other, but like off the table,
even on the table like friendly wise like everyone I
don't know, everybody just gets along and it's much better
this way. I mean, if we didn't like each other,
it would be sitting at the table like at the Venetian,
maybe no one would be talking. Instead we're at the
table having a good time, like talking shit like I mean,
someone makes like a bad call on the river or
something and double someone up like you might hear like
someone throwing like a good call like jokingly, just like
and it really does make it way more fun. But
it is crazy to like think about, like we're playing
these guys for so much money, but we all really
want to see each other do well, is it possible
for everyone to do well. Like, I don't know in
the long run, but like I'm not gonna ever anti
sweat somebody that I'm like friends with, Like obviously I
want to beat them, but if I'm not like at
the table against them, like I want to see them
do well.
Speaker 2: Truly, where do you feel like And this is maybe
a little bit of a hard pivot, but where do
you feel like you stand in sort of that PGT hierarchy?
You know, the PGT probably the best way to sort
of look at who's doing a year round, who's who's
going to the places to you know, gather points. And
the reason I say this is because you said in
the twenty five ks you haven't been that lucky yet.
But it also shows me that you want to make
more of an effort to play those and take those chances.
So where do you feel Where do you feel like
you stand right now within that ecosystem? And are there
next steps to take? Is there is there a vision
for where you want to ultimately? And because to me,
the comfort level that you've now sort of created for
yourself in the studio just means that this is now
the life for however long you're able to do this,
But how do you see that?
Speaker 1: I would say, like if I sit down at any
like big field event, like I'm gonna think I'm like
one of the best in the tournament for sure when
you come to the studio, like it's everybody is good
for the most part, and I think I try to
portray like not like I'm hustling or something, but like
I like, I don't know if I've done it, but
I like to think that I have like a pretty
uh not whally but more so like just a I
don't give a fuck like attitude, and I think that
suits me well and like there's some truth to it.
But like I wouldn't be sitting at the table if
like I thought I was losing money, you know, like
at the end of the day, like poke my job
and I'll sit at a table with pretty much anyone
and feel like I'm winning and I've had some success.
And I shouldn't say some success like I've done very
well and I hope to only improve now. I would
say generally, how I approach like a poker go series
is pretty much anything ten K and under like if
I'm in town, I'm gonna be playing the only way
not is let's say like I'm borking out a series
so far, and maybe there's some like big field like
sixteen hundred at like Winter Venetian and I've just had
a bad series, like maybe I would skip the last
couple ten k's or something to play that, but generally,
like I'd much prefer to just be in all the
ten ks and under and it's my favorite place to play.
I'm winning there, like I've done well, and I also
think like in some pretty big spots I've gotten unlucky,
so like I think I should even be like winning more.
But when it comes to higher than ten k, it's
really like if I'm having a good series, like sure,
I'll fire it, but like if I'm not, I'm not
just gonna automatically sit just because like I don't know,
I feel like I'm very like financially responsible where I'm
not gonna like just if I'm not feeling great, like
I'm not gonna play something above ten k where like
when I sit out a ten K and look around,
like I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna win today. So hopefully
like in the future that ten K goes up to
like twenty five K or fifty k, where like if
it's running, I'm in, you know, at this time, like
I feel very comfortable ten k and under, and uh yeah,
hopefully I feel the same about bigger buyings in the future.
Speaker 2: It's funny you say financially responsible because to many who
would listen to you talk about gambling on bowling and
having this sort of you know, sale of the attitude
about poker from time to time, uh, sort of tied
into you bringing up the fact that you've always left gambling.
You guys are throwing dice. There's the famous story and
you can get into it about how blackcheck and sort
of nearly ended you financially. So has that been a
lessons learned? Have you always been conservative but you allow
yourself to sort of step outside of that? How do
you how do you approach that? Because you also mentioned,
you know, Josh and Daniel investing in you, So there's
a lot of things coming together here all at the
same time. How do you how do you juggle that? Well?
Speaker 1: I would say before, like I was not financially set,
but like before I ever had like I don't know,
like real money, where like I don't need to worry
about like rent for like a month or something like
I would have bankroll on table at any point or
like now that I'm way more comfortable and like have
a like money in the bank where like I'm not
worrying about like paying my bills or anything. I never
want that to change, So I would say I'm definitely
more responsible now we're in the past, Like I could
just be broke the next day, so I never want
that to ever be a thing again. So I would
say also, like I don't have like I said, like
I don't come from money, Like there's no like backup,
Like if poker doesn't work out, It's not like I'm
going to like work for some family business, Like there
is no backup. So I can't like just lose everything
that I have and like feel like it's gonna be
okay because it probably wouldn't be so.
Speaker 2: And then the Blackjack story real quick, yeah, might that
have been a bit of a turning point and explain
what happened there.
Speaker 1: So this was like right after college, I graduated, I
went back to New York for like ten to eleven months,
and then I got a place in Florida on my own,
and I want to say I lost like almost eighty
percent of what I had within like the first month,
Like dabbling in blackjack, like I just randomly played one
night after winning huge in a cash session and just
got buried and was chasing it for like a week
and just kept digging myself a deeper hole and then
had to like drop down in stakes, and uh, yeah,
that was brutal. And I didn't touch a blackjack table
or really anything in the pit for the longest time.
And I would say, now, actually not when like poker
is going on, but like when there's really no poker,
Like let's say we're bowling, me and a couple guys
might try to hit them hard at the blackjack table
and try to spin it up, but like it's really
just like a fun thing to do with friends for entertainment,
like I'm trying to grind, like I'm not chasing any
sort of money. Like, so, like I can play from
time to time now, but it's way different. Like I
didn't play for fucking years because like I was scared,
like I would just lose all my fucking money again.
And honestly, it was one of the greatest things that
ever happened to me because I was able to like
treat poker more so as like a job and uh
put money away and not blow it in the pit.
Where now like I would say, like maybe I have
a little like gambling stash and after bowling me and
a couple guys might be like, let's fucking get them
tonight and we'll just chop the action three or four
ways and just like play some blackjack. But it's totally
for fun and it's rare, and yes, so I shouldn't
say like I'll never play again, but it's a different
type of play, right.
Speaker 2: So then the progression as far as buying levels go,
did you need that support from Daniel and Josh to
accomplish that? Were you so comfortable that there was really
no need to move up or was there an urge
to perhaps try and battle those guys and that support
was necessary to feel comfortable.
Speaker 1: Like as far as ten k's and what not going. Yeah,
So I would say initially when me and Daniel started,
or me Daniel and Josh, it was just for the
world series. This was I believe it was my first
year here years ago, and I'd always talk to like
mid Steaks friends that I had who were backed, and
just all of them were in the same headspace like,
oh my god, if I win this, I don't even
get any money. Like they all just sounded like they
weren't like having a great time with the whole backing,
So I was almost like not super excited to get
into it. But like this is Daniel Legrand who and
josh Aria like a month gonna be like, oh, actually,
I'm good. I'm gonna stick to my two hundreds and
four hundreds this summer. So initially, it like how backing
works is let's say, like you play a two K
and you lose, like your two K makeup and like
you're always in makeup, Like you lose one tournament, you're
now in makeup and then whenever you're up. So let's
say the next tournament's a one K and I cash
for five. We're in for three K, so I would
pay back the three and then you chop the remaining
two is how it works, and now you're back to zero.
So I'd say, initially, like I don't know, I would
be in like I remember I was like twenty seven
hundred dollars in makeup, which is literally nothing like less
than a buy and now and I would be like,
oh my God, the second I get even like I'm
out of here, like I can't do this. And so
that first summer I was a little like iffy about
it and I didn't love it. And after the summer
he offered me to like continue it, and I was like, uh,
you know what, I appreciate it so much, but like,
I just don't think it's for me, Like it was
just kind of messing with me mentally. I was almost
scared to play my game and potentially bust because I
didn't want, like to be another one thousand dollars in makeup.
A few months passed by, I think it was about
to be like people were bringing up like the Wind
December and like all these great events that were gonna
be and I'm like looking and I'm seeing I don't
really remember what my banker was at the time, but
I'm like, man, you know, it'd be nice to have
that backing right now. So I texted Daniel and Josh
again like a few months later and was like, hey, uh,
like can we continue, Like can is this offer still good?
And Uh, Luckily for me, they were still down with it,
and we've just continued ever since, and it's just really
nice knowing Like let's say I would play like a
ten k, which would be super rare. Like let's say
it's like the main event. I don't know, my friends
would have like five percent each, like I would probably
only play like one bullet, Like I'm trying to be responsible,
and I mean, if you're in a tournament that like
you're not comfortable potentially rebuying, Like I just truly think
unless it's like a freeze out, like you're just drawing dead,
like you can't be scared to bust. Like sometimes like
going for this bluff or like being all in in
this spot is just the right move, and if it
doesn't work out, like you have to be willing to
try again. The first poker Go tournament that I won,
it was a ten k for two hundred and fifty
five thousand, and like I remember just running some like
absurd bluff. I want to say. It was like while
registration was open for like stacks and luckily he folded
the river and it was like pretty pivotal for me
because I got short near the bubble. But like you
need chips to like win tournaments, so you need to
like chip up or else, like you're you're gonna lose
all ends, so you want to when you do lose,
you want to still be in the tournament. But I
just remember, like let's say I was playing this on
my own, like I would not have won for this bluff,
and I wouldn't have had the chips to like survive
the bubble and then like later win the tournament. But
me knowing, like, Okay, if this doesn't work out, like
I'm just gonna rebuy, Like I think that's very crucial,
Like it's I think it's an advantage having a lot
of money behind you where they trust your game and
like you can just rebuy if it doesn't work out,
like that's okay, you don't need to worry about, Oh
this guy had five percent, Like is he in for
a second bullet? Like oh fuck, do I really want
to rebuy? Like my bills are so expensive, like I
could use this ten k, Like I just don't think
you can win like this long term if you're thinking
like that. So for me to have Daniel and Josh
behind me with a very good amount of money, I
would think, and them trusting like my thought process and
playing like I think that's crucial for me, And I
definitely would not have the success that I've had in
like mid and high stakes.
Speaker 2: What do you think it initially was that made Daniel
believe in you? Because obviously there was the big battle
you and Lennon Tice, the studying versus more the sort
of live player approach, if you want to put it
that way, But do you think there was a specific
conversation you had or specific moments that made him sort
of think like, oh, Jeremy is the guy I have
to get behind because in a way.
Speaker 1: Well, this the bet with Landon was a year after
I'd already been with Daniel and Josh, which I think
people don't know. So I mean I used to, like
we still do now. But it's obviously you know, Daniel's
super into like golfing, and he was playing way more
when we started. We used to talk fucking poker hands,
any like spot that I had or even they had,
Like we would just text in a group chat and
get each other's opinions, and I think just doing that
for like a year made him like believe in my
thought process and whatnot.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because I also assumed that the land and
things sort of kicked all this stuff off, But it
was actually it.
Speaker 1: Was a year prior. Yeah, I want a bunch of
like those lower by ins at winn in Venetian and
they would post your winner's photo. And so I have
a theory that I don't even know is true. Daniel
tweeted like, oh my god, is this kid like the
next like big thing in poker, Like I know it's
low buy ins, but this is like unheard of or
whatever the tweet was. But what I found out later
was I believe Josh was the best man at his
friend's wedding who I had played a decent amount of
cash with in Florida, and I didn't know this. I
found this out later, or maybe the other way around.
The guy was the best man at Josh's wedding something
like this. And I'm gonna assume they did some sort
of background information on me, like whether it's talking with
people I've played with about like my character or my
play or whatever it was, because I mean right away
when me and Daniel started, The first time I met
him was when he like dropped me off money for
the World series and like it was a decent amount
of money, like this is big trust, Like who's to
say I'm not taking this fucking money and just getting
out of town or something, you know, and like no
questions on Like initially, I think I could play like
I don't remember, maybe it was like five kN under
or something, just no questions asked, and if I wanted
to play like a ten to ask them where, I mean,
you got to have a lot of trust, I would think.
And we just texted, we were called. We hadn't like
met yet. Yeah, so I'm gonna assume they like did
their due diligence behind the scenes. So my theory is
that like Josh set all of this up and knew
that I wouldn't be able to like say no to
Daniel because they're like great friends, business partners, whatever it
may be. But honestly, I've never even talked to them
about it, so I don't know, like what made Daniel
put out that tweet and get in contact with me.
Speaker 2: It's so fascinating how you sort of paved your own
way with those results. You got noticed, and you didn't
just get noticed by, you know, a random scout on
the sidelines. No, it was like Dane Legrano. Yeah, maybe
maybe whether it was through Josh or not, they were
obviously like very close friends. But if you sort of
think back of your maybe your poker fan self back
in the day to then land in that position, it
must be pretty surreal.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean I've remember I didn't believe it. I
was playing basketball. I'd only been in Vegas like a
month or two before, like he contacted me, and I
remember I finished playing and I looked at my phone
and I had like all these messages for multiple people
being like did you see Daniel's tweet? And like I thought,
like someone's running some sort of bit on me, Like
I didn't understand, Like what are you talking about? They
were like look, and he basically said what I said
before about it being like impressive, and.
Speaker 2: Uh, I remember the tweet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he offered me like a stake for the WSOP,
which was like a month or two later, and we
just like talked before then and got comfortable with each other,
I think, And yeah, I mean the rest is history,
and gladly it's really worked out. And I mean if
I came to Vegas playing two and four hundred dollars
tournaments like literally just trying to get by, and now like,
for instance, I'm playing golf with Daniel, Josh and Danny
Cpeel to we're gonna be gambling, I'm sure, and like
then the World Series is coming up and I could
pretty much play any event I want in part to
Daniel and Josh. And it's like if you told me
this a few years ago, like it truly wouldn't even
be believable, like I would I'd be like a good one,
like see you at the win six hundred like, but
now like I can just play a ten k and
I'm golfing with fucking Daniel and Josh, who when I
was getting into poker, I'm watching them on fucking TV
playing and uh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's also that's also established for the viewers at
home that you are probably talking just as much shit
to Daniel and Josh on the golf course or at
the poker table, because you know, you're, you're, you're friends
with these guys. Now it's it's no longer that you
know they are somewhere out there and you're you're, you
know this guy who is just getting started, you like
you're you're one of the guys.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean obviously I'm not like in their class,
like their careers, like they're like Poker Hall of famers,
like I've said it a bunch, like I think the
Michael Jordan of poker, you know, so like obviously nowhere
like near that status, but yeah, like it's not crazy
that like I can sit in a golf cart with
Daniel and like just be talking about life with him,
Like we're like somewhat like business partners, I would say,
and like also friends, like we if I ever needed something,
like whether it's financial or like just about life, like
I believe that he would be there for me. And
like that's just crazy to think about because he's like
when I was getting into poker, like watching him was
like I'm very into basketball, would be like watching Michael Jordan.
Like I can't imagine like being like this with Michael Jordan,
And it's really the same thing. It's uh crazy that
I have him as a person to like just be
with me along the way and help me out, Like
I wouldn't be in the position I am without him,
for sure.
Speaker 2: I want to wrap up with this, and it's been
super interesting conversation. But with how you seemingly have unlocked
something new every single year or made some sort of progression,
where do you see this going? Where do you want
this to go, do you see yourself as like a
lifer in this world? Your passion for the game, you know,
has almost no equal because of how much time you
put in at the live felt, which not many people
can stomach for that many years. So how does the
the poker life of Jeremy Becker revolve from here on out?
Speaker 1: I would say, and I've definitely made an effort to
do this in playing much less low stakes poker, really
making an effort to play just like the good mid
steak stuff and higher buy and stuff, because I truly do,
like want to be one of the best at this level.
And to me, like, I think experience is worth a
ton and that's really the only way I'm going to
be able to do it. People used to ask me,
let's say, like a year ago, oh, do you see
yourself like going to like an EPT or going to
like Triden just basically like traveling the world playing And
I was like, no, Like, dude, i live two minutes
from the casino in Vegas, Like I'm just gonna play
sports like gamble on some basketball like and play poker.
And now like like I could see myself playing Trident's
one day or going to like Barcelona for like a
big series. Like I've never really cared what people think,
and I really do try to like portray like not
a whaling mentality, but just like, oh, I don't care,
how like I don't fucking know what these charts say,
and like that's true, but like I don't know, let's say,
in like twenty thirty years, like I would like to
be talked about as like one of the best poker
players there were, and I think to do that, like
I just need to play bigger and bigger, and uh
obviously I would like to uh get like rich rich
from poker. That would be great, like playing a fucking
game that I love. But yeah, like I'm not trying
to just hit and run poker, make millions and then
just like leave on some island. Like I'm trying to
make all that money so that I can play bigger
and bigger tournaments basically just like reinvesting in myself on
the poker table. And uh so, yeah, I just want
to play more high stakes poker and almost have a
reputation in these fields like I do in like mid
steaks low stakes fields.
Speaker 2: I just want to go on the record here that
I want to purchase the rights to Jeremy Becker goes
to Europe if that becomes a documentary, because that would
be a phenomenal watch.
Speaker 1: There'd be some material there.
Speaker 2: We might have to put it behind the paywall for it.
Speaker 1: I mean, if I'm sitting at the table with some
euro who's fucking waiting till one second on the clock
left to make every action, He's gonna hear it from me. Like,
as much as I try to be nice and friendly
with everyone, the unnecessary tanking is not for me. And
apparently there's a lot of that out there.
Speaker 2: So well, you did not hesitate for one second answer
any of these questions. I really appreciate it, Jeremy Becker.
It's been a pleasure having you on the show the
very first In this series, we'll have weekly episodes like Subscribe,
leave a common to all that good stuff follow Jeremy
on socials, will have links in the description. And all
that rests me to say, is you know, go win
a bracelet or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope. So I'm gonna have a good amount
of money down on myself this summer.
Speaker 2: I'm going to prop bets, side bets. What's what's going on?
Speaker 1: Yeah, just I'm into the whole fantasy league that Daniel runs.
I'll have some side bets on myself, just like winning
a bracelet versus others. Every year I've said, like I mean,
I say every year, it's been three years, like, oh,
I want to play wsop, and then a couple of
days in I'm like, okay, I'm going to the win,
just like the whole playing experience, but now I'm playing bigger.
They have the app. You're not waiting around on these
lines like you were. Generally you get better like dealers
in the higher buyings and fantasy points. I mean, I'm
gonna be chasing it as well as money obviously.
Speaker 2: So what's the worth of wind to bracelet as outside
of the tournament payout? What do we got going here?
Speaker 1: I really am not too sure yet. We're a little
over a week away, but it's gonna be worth a lot,
but not even just for like that, like I want
to win it, like for me and like Daniel and
Josh and just like like I'm gonna be very committed
to WSOP this summer and I'm gonna put my money
where my mouth is and try to back it up
for sure.
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty six Bracelet or Jeremy Becker. Thanks for coming,
Thanks for watching,