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Start having the 51 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:00.000 most fun ever at Chumbuck Casino dot com. 52 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:03.560 You'll prettify Edie by Lost Your Regnitions eighteen plus. 53 00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:15.919 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 54 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:19.039 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 55 00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:26.400 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK Every 56 00:02:26.439 --> 00:02:30.080 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 57 00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:34.719 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 58 00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:51.400 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. Good Afternoon, Young girl's pennies 59 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:56.080 started to go missing, Sexual assaults began to occur, and 60 00:02:56.120 --> 00:03:00.400 then female bodies were found. Soon this quiet town Tweed, 61 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:04.560 Ontario was in panic. What's even more shocking was when 62 00:03:04.599 --> 00:03:09.319 an upstanding residence stood accused of the assaults. This was 63 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:12.000 not just any man, but a pillar of the community, 64 00:03:12.520 --> 00:03:16.439 a decorated military pilot who had flown Canadian Forces VIP 65 00:03:16.759 --> 00:03:21.000 aircraft for dignitaries such as the Queen of England, Prince Philip, 66 00:03:21.479 --> 00:03:25.439 the Governor General, and the Prime Minister of Canada. This 67 00:03:25.479 --> 00:03:29.000 is the story of serial killer Russell Williams, the elite 68 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:33.000 pilot of Canada's Air Force one and the innocent victims 69 00:03:33.240 --> 00:03:37.560 he murdered. Unlike other serial killers, Williams seemed very unaffected 70 00:03:37.599 --> 00:03:41.199 about his crimes and leading two separate lives. 71 00:03:42.439 --> 00:03:46.120 Alan R. Warren describes a secret life, including the abductions, 72 00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:50.360 rape and murders that were unleashed on an unsuspecting community. 73 00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:54.319 Included are letters written to the victims by Williams and 74 00:03:54.400 --> 00:03:58.479 descriptions of the assaults and rapes as seen on videos 75 00:03:58.479 --> 00:04:02.800 and photos taken by Williams during the attacks. The book 76 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:06.879 that we're featuring this afternoon is Above Suspicion, The True 77 00:04:06.919 --> 00:04:09.759 Story of serial killer Russell Williams, with my special guest, 78 00:04:09.879 --> 00:04:14.599 journalist and author and podcaster Alan R. Warren. Welcome to 79 00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:16.560 the program, and thank you very much for agreeing to 80 00:04:16.600 --> 00:04:18.839 this interview. Alan R. Warren. 81 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:23.040 Well, thanks very much, Dan, it's always good to talk 82 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:23.240 to you. 83 00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:29.000 Well, thank you very much. Congratulations on your first book. 84 00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:33.000 And you picked a heck of a subject, a colonel 85 00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:37.560 or former colonel Russell Williams. Now tell us just a 86 00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:42.360 little bit briefly without giving anything really away, but what 87 00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:46.639 brought you to this story? Why did you choose Russell 88 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:50.399 Williams and this story to write above suspicion. 89 00:04:52.199 --> 00:04:56.439 Well, I think that it was ignored a lot, and 90 00:04:56.560 --> 00:05:01.480 it was kind of overshadowed because of Paul Bernardo and 91 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:05.120 that whole thing that was going on. And I think 92 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:09.199 there was a lot of things about this case that 93 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:13.800 never came out and people didn't get the story, and 94 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:18.120 I just I thought that there wasn't enough done about it, 95 00:05:18.279 --> 00:05:21.000 and I think we needed to know more because this 96 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:26.240 was a very important man who had a very important 97 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:30.800 job in our country and he was getting away with 98 00:05:31.879 --> 00:05:33.639 unbelievable crimes. 99 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:41.160 Now take us back, as you do. You have information 100 00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:45.279 about Russell Williams and the breakup of his parents and 101 00:05:45.399 --> 00:05:49.720 also him studying economics in school. So take us back 102 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:52.720 before all the military, even before he got the bug 103 00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:58.040 to tell us a little bit about Russell Williams growing up, 104 00:05:58.199 --> 00:06:00.480 going to school. Tell us a little bit out what 105 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:01.959 as you write in the book. 106 00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:09.199 Well, Russell was born in England in Bromsgrove and in 107 00:06:09.279 --> 00:06:14.959 nineteen sixty three, and he had a little brother that 108 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:19.360 was born two years behind him. And when he was 109 00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:24.560 about six his parents moved from England to Chalk River 110 00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:31.160 and that was because his dad had a PhD and metallurgy, 111 00:06:31.639 --> 00:06:34.879 and so he was able to get a job at 112 00:06:34.920 --> 00:06:41.360 Canada's premier nuclear facility by Chalk River, and that facility 113 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:46.680 was doing things like the US Manhattan Project and very 114 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:51.360 big involved in the war. So he took that job, 115 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:55.120 moved the family over, and they moved to Chalk River. 116 00:06:55.240 --> 00:07:00.319 And you know, that was about nineteen sixty nine, and 117 00:07:01.319 --> 00:07:04.839 his mother was pretty much a stay at home mother, 118 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:10.040 but she wanted to do more, and so what she 119 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:13.800 did was she started her own business and it was 120 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:19.680 working with children and children with difficulties, and this was 121 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:21.759 kind of unheard of, and what it did was, at 122 00:07:21.759 --> 00:07:25.839 first it created a little rift in the community because 123 00:07:25.879 --> 00:07:31.839 in the sixties, what good wife would go start a 124 00:07:31.879 --> 00:07:34.920 business and ignore her family or not take care of 125 00:07:34.920 --> 00:07:38.199 her husband and kids. That was kind of the tone 126 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:46.360 back then, and so in mainstream community she wasn't real popular. Now. 127 00:07:46.680 --> 00:07:50.000 At the same time this happened, the nuclear plant happened 128 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:56.399 to take on a Czechoslovakian man, Jerry Sooka, and so 129 00:07:56.639 --> 00:07:59.319 him and his wife moved to the same Chalk River 130 00:07:59.639 --> 00:08:02.600 to do the same type of job because they were 131 00:08:02.600 --> 00:08:07.279 both immigrants, and probably because Russell William's mother was feeling 132 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:11.879 isolated in the community, they tended to lock onto each 133 00:08:11.959 --> 00:08:16.759 other and become good friends. And this was a they 134 00:08:16.759 --> 00:08:20.759 did everything together. And this is where there's a little 135 00:08:20.759 --> 00:08:26.519 bit of talk about the family, you know, because there 136 00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:31.199 was a swinger sort of club going on in kind 137 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:34.759 of an underground part of the city, the town, and 138 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:39.840 that they were said to be part of that, and 139 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:42.120 so that was, you know what, we don't know how 140 00:08:42.200 --> 00:08:44.919 much truth is in that. That's why I said there 141 00:08:44.960 --> 00:08:48.799 was a rumor. We don't know. But they spent a 142 00:08:48.840 --> 00:08:53.759 lot of time together and did everything together, and the 143 00:08:53.799 --> 00:08:58.039 boys grew up pretty normal. Russell, for instance, he played 144 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:04.000 the piano, he belonged to the school band, he delivered newspapers, 145 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:11.440 always did things right, his grades were quite good. It 146 00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:16.639 was quiet, very very respectful. People said he had great 147 00:09:16.679 --> 00:09:21.000 manners as a kid, behaved quite well. Uh, never got 148 00:09:21.080 --> 00:09:25.080 himself into trouble. You know. It was kind of an 149 00:09:25.080 --> 00:09:29.399 all in all, pretty pretty good family scenario at that point. 150 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:35.879 But where it changed was probably within a year of 151 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:43.120 them being there. For for some reason, his mother, Russell 152 00:09:43.159 --> 00:09:47.039 Williams's mother took Russell and his brother and moved out 153 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:52.320 of the house, and the story around town was that 154 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:56.960 his father was having an affair with missus Sofka, the 155 00:09:57.039 --> 00:10:01.720 Czech couple that came over as well. So she filed 156 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:07.279 for divorce, and within four months the father and missus 157 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:11.320 Sofka were together. And because again there was so much 158 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:14.080 negative talk about that kind that was a scandal in 159 00:10:14.480 --> 00:10:19.759 the sixties, and so they moved to New York. They 160 00:10:19.879 --> 00:10:23.639 up and left, and the mother ended up getting together 161 00:10:23.720 --> 00:10:28.720 with mister Soka and in fact marrying them, so they 162 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:35.559 swapped partners. Yeah, And because of the again more talk, 163 00:10:36.039 --> 00:10:38.559 and because nobody would take their kids to her business, 164 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:44.840 she up and moved to Toronto. So that's kind of 165 00:10:44.879 --> 00:10:48.440 the early days in Canada when they were small and 166 00:10:48.679 --> 00:10:53.039 what happened with the parents, and it's so it's left. 167 00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:56.000 You know, his father with the new wife has moved 168 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:59.600 to New York pretty much dropped out of sight, and 169 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:03.279 Russell and his brother or living with the mother with 170 00:11:03.399 --> 00:11:07.759 a new new father stepfather in Toronto. 171 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:16.519 Now now you talk about the basic normalcy of everything 172 00:11:17.080 --> 00:11:21.519 except for this. Again, how traumatic it was and what 173 00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:25.919 effect it had on Russell's unknown, we don't really know. 174 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:32.120 But it didn't affect him enough to affect negatively his education. 175 00:11:32.519 --> 00:11:35.279 So you do talk about what he does and what 176 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:39.080 he studies, and then how he becomes interested in the 177 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:43.120 military and where he is at that time to be 178 00:11:43.159 --> 00:11:46.000 interested in this military. Tell us a little bit more 179 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:49.159 about that. And his best friend Foker. 180 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:54.799 Yeah, Jeff the Core, He was his best friend from 181 00:11:54.840 --> 00:12:01.440 school and has he suggested they used to lay on 182 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:04.039 the field because when they lived in Chalk River as kids. 183 00:12:04.039 --> 00:12:08.600 First of all, they're really close to Camp Petawalah, and 184 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:12.120 all the military jets and planes and everything would fly 185 00:12:12.200 --> 00:12:14.440 over all the time, and they used to lay on 186 00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:18.720 the mounds on the different buildings and mountains and different 187 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:22.759 areas and watch all these flights and pretend to fly. 188 00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:26.919 And they were just really into it as kids. But 189 00:12:27.080 --> 00:12:30.519 when they got into the school school and even into college, 190 00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:33.559 none of them went for that sort of thing. They 191 00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:38.120 all headed into the In fact, Russell went into economics 192 00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:42.720 and did four years. His brother became a phg d. 193 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:51.320 He's a family doctor. So they didn't really take it serious, 194 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:54.879 but they were really involved in it excited them. And 195 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:00.000 just when he graduated from the university, and not even 196 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:01.919 before they're out of the dorm, he shared the same 197 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:06.440 dorm room with Jeff. His friend, and he came in 198 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:09.919 and said he's going to join the Air Force. And 199 00:13:10.039 --> 00:13:13.679 Jeff was like, what's that all about? Right, this is crazy, 200 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:17.279 And in Jeff's words, he said that he thought because 201 00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:20.679 at that time, we're in the eighties and Top Gun 202 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:22.799 was a big movie and that whole thing was going 203 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:26.080 on with Tom Cruise, and he thought that he was 204 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:29.759 just you know, catching the wave, as you'd say, and 205 00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:32.679 kind of getting into it. It's the trend. He's excited. 206 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:35.440 He wants to be that pilot, you know, that sort 207 00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:39.639 of thing. And he didn't take him seriously. So it 208 00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:43.440 was a surprise, one of the first of many that 209 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:47.440 was going to happen. And so he went that direction 210 00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:50.639 and Jeff said, well, you know, he's my best friend 211 00:13:50.679 --> 00:13:55.000 and I'm there for you. Man. It was these kind 212 00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:57.360 of words and if that's what you want to do, 213 00:13:57.360 --> 00:13:59.960 do it, But in his heart he thought it was 214 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:00.799 last year. 215 00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:09.000 Now you talk about also his opinion and his observations 216 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:13.120 in terms of Russell Williams terms of a romantic person, 217 00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:18.639 a dating person, sexually attracted to women and dating tell 218 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:22.399 us about what the real situation was in his opinion, 219 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:26.720 and what his surprise was with an announcement from Russell. 220 00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:31.679 Well, yeah, so it continued, you know, And they were 221 00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:35.399 in dorm for the whole four years together, so they 222 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:40.480 shared a room and and in fact, Russell had only 223 00:14:40.519 --> 00:14:44.759 one girlfriend excuse me, through high school and early college, 224 00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:47.840 and she had played in the band as well, and 225 00:14:47.919 --> 00:14:51.879 she was very nice, quiet, and they got along, seemed 226 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:55.159 very well, and then they just suddenly broke up. It 227 00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:58.919 was over. He never dated anybody else and never went 228 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:02.279 on parties. In fact, he was the one that run 229 00:15:02.360 --> 00:15:04.759 the house. They had six roommates. He was the one 230 00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:08.240 that gave everybody schedules. This is this is who cooks today, 231 00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:11.320 this is who gets the groceries. Here's zoo cleans. He 232 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:14.879 was very organized. He refolded his clothes all the time, 233 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:18.080 and even when they had little parties in the dorm room, 234 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:20.159 he would just sit in the back and fold his 235 00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:22.879 clothes and refold them over and over all night long. 236 00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:26.440 So he was just very quiet, and they figured he 237 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:32.000 was a little more shy. So nothing, and all of 238 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:35.320 a sudden, so he you know, they graduate, he gets 239 00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:38.279 into the Air Force, and this is the late eighties, 240 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:41.440 and all of a sudden he comes up to Jeff 241 00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:43.679 and says I'm getting married. I want you to be 242 00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:48.200 my best man. And Jeff was like, what, who? I 243 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:51.600 haven't even met anybody like who you? And he introduced 244 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:55.559 him to Mary Elizabeth Harriman, who he ended up marrying 245 00:15:55.559 --> 00:15:59.159 that July. So it took them from February to July 246 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:03.279 to be made and it came out of the blue. 247 00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:06.320 And that was again another one of those surprises that 248 00:16:06.919 --> 00:16:10.559 took him off God, and he couldn't figure it out 249 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:14.440 where this person came from. He liked Barry. She seemed 250 00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:16.720 very polite, very nice, She was a smart girl, she 251 00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:23.320 was going for her degree and pretty pretty like. He 252 00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:26.279 had nothing bad to say about her, and they seemed 253 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:29.679 to get along quite well. But it was just where 254 00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:32.720 did this come from? It was like the Air Force thing, 255 00:16:32.840 --> 00:16:36.679 Where did that come from? And so that was two 256 00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:41.759 big shocks on him. And I'm not sure. Jeff seems 257 00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:44.000 to be pretty easy going and when you talk to him, 258 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:48.639 he seems to be pretty oh, okay, I can take 259 00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:51.919 that type person. So he's not offended by it, but 260 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:56.639 just really surprised that this is the same guy that 261 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:01.639 he lived with for six years and they did everything 262 00:17:01.720 --> 00:17:04.960 together type thing. Where did you meet her? 263 00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:05.279 Like? 264 00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:06.160 How did this happen? 265 00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:11.400 M hm, you say that you married? 266 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:14.880 Go ahead, sorry, yeah no, And I was just gonna say, 267 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:17.079 because we can step back a little and when they're 268 00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:25.240 in the economics class. Both Russell Williams and Paul Bernardo 269 00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:30.000 were in the same classes together, same economics programs, same everything. 270 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:34.119 And of course hello, it is Ryan and we could 271 00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:36.480 all use an extra bright spot in our day, couldn't we, 272 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:38.880 just to make up for things like sitting in traffic, 273 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:41.400 doing the dishes, counting or steps, you know, all the 274 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:44.119 mundane stuff. That is why I'm such a big fan 275 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:47.440 of Chumba Casino. Chumpbuck Casino has all your favorite social 276 00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:51.119 casino style games you can play for free anytime anywhere 277 00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:54.599 with daily bonuses. That's your bright new day, lowe actually 278 00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:57.799 a lot, so sign up now at Chumbuck Casino dot com. 279 00:17:57.920 --> 00:17:59.599 That's Chumbuck Casino dot com. 280 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:02.480 Necessarily, media lost the arm conditions. 281 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:05.200 Eating Plus Claims magazine as well as The Star and 282 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:08.759 a few others had published later that they were friends. 283 00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:14.000 Now Jeff just denies that completely because he said that 284 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:16.759 at most they would have maybe been to the same 285 00:18:17.319 --> 00:18:20.440 frat party or you know, the same sort of hangout 286 00:18:20.839 --> 00:18:23.799 or the pubbet at the at the college. But they 287 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:27.839 were not friends, and they probably didn't know each other, 288 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:30.640 because he said he would have known because they did 289 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:34.279 everything together. And I take that as as truth. I 290 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:37.680 think he's telling me the truth. But the other side 291 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:40.519 to that is, if he didn't know about this woman 292 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:44.039 that all of a sudden became his wife, and he 293 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:45.920 didn't know about the Air Force that all of a 294 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:50.880 sudden became his career, maybe he had at that time 295 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:56.559 some secrets that he was running a secondary life somehow 296 00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:00.720 that he could make it on you know, not unseeable 297 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:01.200 to Jeff. 298 00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:08.640 Yeah, now you talk about too, to make sure no one, 299 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:12.680 everyone understands that this was not a pushover this woman 300 00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:16.079 and she was no dummy. She was the associate director 301 00:19:16.119 --> 00:19:18.920 of the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada. Here she's 302 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:23.160 five years older than him, and they moved to a 303 00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:25.960 suburb of Ottawa, which is a capital of Canada's you write, 304 00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:30.519 called Orleans, Ontario. And he is posted at that time 305 00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:35.279 as Director of Air Requirements at the National Defense Headquarters. 306 00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:38.039 And you go on, tell us some of the really 307 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:42.039 important things you talk about in nineteen ninety four, tell 308 00:19:42.119 --> 00:19:45.599 us some of the stuff that he is involved with 309 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:47.960 militarily and the status that. 310 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:52.960 He achieves excuse me, well, probably the biggest thing and 311 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:55.839 the biggest boost for him in his career and his 312 00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:02.319 whole persona of getting the parents that he ended up 313 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:06.839 getting was probably him going to uh you know, United 314 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:11.279 Arab Emirates and he was in the secret camp, the 315 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:14.920 secret base, and he was made commander of that and 316 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:20.400 that that that was a secret battle with Afghanistan. And 317 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:25.720 so he was there for six months and when he 318 00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:30.559 came back was really when he was placed almost immediately 319 00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:33.920 in charge of Trenton. So that was probably the biggest 320 00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:38.039 boost for him. And the other thing is he was 321 00:20:38.119 --> 00:20:41.519 going for his masters in defense, and if you look 322 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:47.599 at his master's deposition, his whole his whole thesis about 323 00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:53.319 going in and attacking first in Afghanistan and taking taking over. 324 00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:56.039 He was he was a warhawk, and he was very 325 00:20:56.119 --> 00:21:01.279 aggressive in his thinking toward battle, reorganized in that way. 326 00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:06.920 And so he really rose to the top almost immediately 327 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:10.680 because they what he had did in the Secret base 328 00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:13.880 as well as his thesis made him look like he 329 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:18.440 could be a war general down in the US easily, 330 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:21.720 and they thought he would work really well with the Americans. 331 00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:26.240 So he was the right person and at the same 332 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:30.319 time he was able to sell himself publicly, so he 333 00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:35.880 showed up at all the different events, the charities would 334 00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:39.559 shake hands. He had a really good presence on TV. Tall, 335 00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:46.960 good looking, always pristine, dressed well, well behaved, you know, 336 00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:52.200 perfect manners. He was the perfect candidate to go where 337 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:56.519 he became the head of the largest air force base 338 00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:57.039 in Canada. 339 00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:04.680 Right now, you talk about the reason why, the main 340 00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:08.359 reason why Russell and his wife bought a cottage in Tweed, Ontario, 341 00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:13.319 which again is just a little community. And this is 342 00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:15.839 because he was at the Trenton Air Force Base five 343 00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:20.000 days a week. It's made for a big commute or 344 00:22:20.039 --> 00:22:22.119 a long commute, so he won the short neck commute. 345 00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:26.680 But then you talk about a series of unusual break 346 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:30.400 and enters that occur in Tweed. So tell us about 347 00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:34.559 this purchase of the cottage and how are Russell and 348 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:35.480 his wife getting along? 349 00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:40.319 By all reports, well, according to the neighbors in Orleans 350 00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:45.599 outside of Ottawa, where they lived, they all said they 351 00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:48.119 were great. They were a perfect couple or a power couple. 352 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:52.640 In fact, the comments were like she would come home 353 00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:55.160 from one of her trips because she did travel a 354 00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:59.400 lot with the Heart and Stroke Foundation. She would come home, 355 00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:02.640 he would run out the door, carry her suitcases and 356 00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:08.559 in for her, hold the doors open. Always always a gentleman. 357 00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:11.680 And when they'd go over to the neighbors for coffee, 358 00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:17.400 he would always get up and get get get her coffee, 359 00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:20.240 or get her drink for her, refill it, carry it 360 00:23:20.359 --> 00:23:26.240 for hold the chairs, take her jacket. He was extremely 361 00:23:26.599 --> 00:23:29.920 well mannered, and the neighbors thought, what a nice, nice 362 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:33.160 guy he was, because he was quiet, he was polite, 363 00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:36.039 and he was so good to his wife, and yet 364 00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:41.319 and a good, good military man. And she talked more 365 00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:44.960 than they did as couples, so most of the neighbors 366 00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:49.480 tended to get more information from her and more about 367 00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:53.880 them as a couple from her. And but again they 368 00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:58.240 loved her too. She was a caring person. She wanted 369 00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:02.039 to be a you know, a great help in the 370 00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:05.799 health community. And she rose quite quickly up to being 371 00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:09.440 one of the executives of the Heart and Stroke Foundation. 372 00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:14.079 So they were like, consider it the perfect couple. 373 00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:22.599 Yeah, now we talked about those a series of unusual 374 00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:26.799 breaking enners and tell us why they're unusual. And this 375 00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:29.359 is in the fall of two thousand and seven, and 376 00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:34.519 you can introduce a very interesting character, very important to 377 00:24:34.599 --> 00:24:38.160 the story, Larry Jones. So tell us what happens in 378 00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:41.160 these break and entners. Who notices and who doesn't notice? 379 00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:43.279 In the fall of two thousand and seven. 380 00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:49.119 Well, you know, there was we're kind of blurry on 381 00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:54.960 exactly how many happened. And I'll explain this. There would 382 00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:59.440 be people that would come home, for instance, and not 383 00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:03.279 notice break in the house looked totally fine. They've they've 384 00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:06.000 been away for a weekend, or they've done something and 385 00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:10.000 they come home, everything says, is no breaking, nothing missing. 386 00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:15.799 Everything seemed normal. And when people would find something missing, 387 00:25:16.839 --> 00:25:21.880 it tended to be something like some underwear or a 388 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:28.119 bathing suit or you know, minor things. And at first 389 00:25:28.319 --> 00:25:32.039 people looked at it like they misplaced it, they lost it, 390 00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:36.200 something happened to it, and they didn't call the cops, right, 391 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:38.640 So there was quite a few of those, And how 392 00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:42.200 we found out was later, once all of the terror 393 00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:46.279 of the break ins hit, everybody started thinking back, oh, 394 00:25:46.359 --> 00:25:48.759 remember I lost this when I lost that, So we're 395 00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:51.359 sort of lost it where it started and how much 396 00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:56.680 it was. But what we do know is how he 397 00:25:56.799 --> 00:26:04.680 would specifically scope out places and break and enter and 398 00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:07.599 and nobody would notice. He would he would do it 399 00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:14.039 with precision and take undergarments and sneak back out. And 400 00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:18.200 you know, the first actually the first ones that we 401 00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:22.119