1
00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:06,200
Speaker 1: Hey, work, what's going on?

2
00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:07,440
Speaker 2: Hey?

3
00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:11,439
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean where we're live on our stream platforms,

4
00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:16,559
and which obviously happened every wage and post recording will

5
00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:17,079
be along on the.

6
00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:23,640
Speaker 4: Website, Yeah, for sure. And today we're talking about masterminds.

7
00:00:22,879 --> 00:00:23,440
Speaker 1: Which.

8
00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:29,719
Speaker 4: May not seem directly DevOps related, but it actually can

9
00:00:29,839 --> 00:00:35,719
be a huge game changer in the success of your career.

10
00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:41,399
But I can just say from personal experience that nine

11
00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:46,159
hundred and ninety nine percent of all masterminds are absolute garbage.

12
00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,520
So today we're going to talk about what makes a

13
00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,159
good mastermind, how to find one or create your own,

14
00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:54,320
and that kind of stuff.

15
00:00:54,719 --> 00:00:54,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

16
00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,000
Speaker 3: No, I mean I'm super excited about this actually because

17
00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,960
I've tried to being masterminds and i feel like I've

18
00:01:02,119 --> 00:01:06,920
fallen into the ninety nine percent category of my experiences.

19
00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:11,799
So I'm really interested in what you've done well in

20
00:01:11,799 --> 00:01:14,879
this area and what that's actually looked like for sure.

21
00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,480
Speaker 4: So let's start with For anyone who may not be

22
00:01:18,599 --> 00:01:21,120
familiar with the concept of a mastermind, I think it

23
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:29,640
originally started with that book whose title just absolutely disappeared

24
00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,040
from my brain this very second. Oh no, no, thinking

25
00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:37,040
go Rich from Napoleon Hill. I think the concept started there,

26
00:01:37,599 --> 00:01:40,719
But the whole idea is to meet with a group

27
00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:47,319
of people that have similar goals, maybe not the same goals,

28
00:01:47,359 --> 00:01:50,760
but have similar goals as you, And the whole idea

29
00:01:50,959 --> 00:01:54,640
is you talk through your ideas, your thoughts, what you've

30
00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:59,920
been working on, and it's the sole responsibility of everyone

31
00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,519
in that group to just absolutely call you out on

32
00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,359
your bullshit, because most of the time, the reason we

33
00:02:06,519 --> 00:02:10,639
fail to achieve our goals is because we make excuses,

34
00:02:10,879 --> 00:02:13,360
and that's all they are. Like, if you want something

35
00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,599
bad enough, there's not going to be an excuse. But

36
00:02:16,759 --> 00:02:21,520
we all fall into those traps of of making excuses

37
00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,039
of why we're not going to continue to pursue this goal.

38
00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:25,719
It turned out to be harder than we thought. And

39
00:02:25,759 --> 00:02:31,680
so the objective of the mastermind is to call your

40
00:02:32,159 --> 00:02:36,120
fellow group members out whenever you catch them doing that

41
00:02:36,199 --> 00:02:37,319
and hold them accountable.

42
00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:38,960
Speaker 1: And you have to do the same.

43
00:02:40,199 --> 00:02:41,879
Speaker 2: No, I mean, I really like.

44
00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,039
Speaker 3: The idea on a concept. There really is something I

45
00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,039
was reading a study not too long ago about even

46
00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,240
if we know what to do in an emergency, something

47
00:02:50,439 --> 00:02:54,240
triggers in our brain where we fall back into some

48
00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,639
sort of native state and execute the wrong thing, even

49
00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:59,120
though in hindsight we know what the right thing to

50
00:02:59,159 --> 00:03:01,280
do is. Being prepared upfront, we know what the right

51
00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:03,800
thing to do is. So having an outside perspective, being

52
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,240
able to just completely share on every idea that we

53
00:03:07,319 --> 00:03:10,479
have or whatsever most critical to us, it gets a

54
00:03:10,479 --> 00:03:13,599
lot of I think there's a huge strategy of success

55
00:03:13,719 --> 00:03:14,159
behind that.

56
00:03:15,319 --> 00:03:17,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's it is. It's hard to do.

57
00:03:18,039 --> 00:03:21,000
Speaker 4: It's hard to be in a good mastermind. But this

58
00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,680
is completely off topic, but what you say just made

59
00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,240
me think of do you ever get on an airplane

60
00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,719
and walk past the exit room and look at the

61
00:03:27,759 --> 00:03:31,560
people in the exit room and go, there's no way

62
00:03:31,599 --> 00:03:33,680
that mfor is going to be able to open that

63
00:03:33,759 --> 00:03:34,639
door if they have to.

64
00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,759
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not I'm not particularly known for my good

65
00:03:39,759 --> 00:03:43,240
evaluations like on surface level of people. But I assume

66
00:03:43,479 --> 00:03:47,360
that the flight staff are doing that check. And I

67
00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,280
do know that they ask for a verbal que you know,

68
00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,879
are you okay doing this, and they have to say yes.

69
00:03:53,639 --> 00:03:58,080
But we do know that even a verbal agreement is

70
00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,680
really passive, and you almost want them to repeat what

71
00:04:01,719 --> 00:04:04,280
they're going to do in the event.

72
00:04:04,039 --> 00:04:05,800
Speaker 2: Of an emergency. Because there was a video that I

73
00:04:05,919 --> 00:04:07,080
actually came out not too long.

74
00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,240
Speaker 3: Ago from a plane with a fire on it, I believe,

75
00:04:10,759 --> 00:04:14,159
and the passengers were all going back and getting their stuff,

76
00:04:14,159 --> 00:04:17,439
and it took quite a long time for a nice.

77
00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:18,319
Speaker 2: Who actually occurs.

78
00:04:18,319 --> 00:04:23,199
Speaker 3: So yeah, I do think about that unfortunately, So thanks

79
00:04:23,199 --> 00:04:24,360
for reminding me of that fear.

80
00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:25,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, my pleasure.

81
00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,279
Speaker 4: When I was in the Navy, that was what a

82
00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,879
majority of the time we spent just training and rehearsing

83
00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:38,199
for disasters because it was a known fact that when

84
00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:43,279
the disaster happened, you fall down to that primal monkey

85
00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:48,199
mind level, and so to be successful in mitigating the disaster,

86
00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,399
it just has to be ingrained muscle memory where no

87
00:04:51,959 --> 00:04:54,600
thought process is required. So we just drilled on it

88
00:04:54,639 --> 00:04:55,480
over and over and over.

89
00:04:56,439 --> 00:04:59,120
Speaker 3: It's really interesting that you bring up the muscle memory

90
00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,600
because the Olympic are on and there is this aspect

91
00:05:02,759 --> 00:05:05,839
of you aren't in the moment thinking about how to

92
00:05:05,879 --> 00:05:09,240
execute effectively. You are always going You don't have time

93
00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,879
to respond realistically, you just have to memorize exactly the

94
00:05:12,959 --> 00:05:15,959
routine that you're going to do and execute on it.

95
00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:21,319
But talking about your Navy experiences, I'm wondering, did you

96
00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,279
have the benefit of some sort of group to prepare

97
00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,879
for those circumstances or just regular run of the mill

98
00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,720
activities that you have to do, like people that maybe

99
00:05:31,759 --> 00:05:34,240
not necessarily directly in your area that could give you

100
00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:38,120
feedback on But is there a group aspect to that,

101
00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,199
you know, thinking about the mastermind topic.

102
00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:47,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, in the military, there is a feedback mechanism, usually

103
00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,439
in the form of some senior officers screaming at the

104
00:05:51,439 --> 00:05:52,800
top of their lungs.

105
00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:57,240
Speaker 1: What the hell is wrong with you boy? So feedback

106
00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:58,959
group was definitely incorporated there.

107
00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:01,800
Speaker 2: I have to wonder like, did you were you ever

108
00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:02,839
on the receiving end of that?

109
00:06:03,399 --> 00:06:04,560
Speaker 1: Oh? Many many times?

110
00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:09,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can tell stories, but they're way off topic

111
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:11,759
from the mastermind.

112
00:06:12,079 --> 00:06:15,160
Speaker 2: So the group is super important, And like who's in

113
00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:15,519
your group?

114
00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:17,839
Speaker 3: And I feel like there's tons of communities out there

115
00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,959
that are like on Slack or discord that you can

116
00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,079
join and maybe ask questions about what you're doing or

117
00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,279
try to get some feedback, but it doesn't feel like

118
00:06:27,399 --> 00:06:29,920
other people necessarily, Like there may be some generous souls

119
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,639
out there that will review your product or wherever you're at,

120
00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:37,800
your technology stack, your current issue, but they're not that great.

121
00:06:38,439 --> 00:06:40,439
So if we know that ninety nine percent of the

122
00:06:40,439 --> 00:06:44,439
masterminds you know are not fantastic, aren't.

123
00:06:44,319 --> 00:06:45,199
Speaker 2: Able to help us.

124
00:06:45,519 --> 00:06:47,879
Speaker 3: How do we even get into a situation where we

125
00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:52,399
can find people that can provide insight into what we're

126
00:06:52,399 --> 00:06:54,240
working on and give recommendations.

127
00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, it's a curated experience, you know, like

128
00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:02,360
a lot of the online mastermind into type communities. It's

129
00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,839
the equivalent of posting your question on stack overflow, you know,

130
00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,000
best of luck and your answer that you get if

131
00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,759
you get one at all. But the thing that makes

132
00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:16,800
a mastermind really successful is curating a personal relationship with

133
00:07:16,879 --> 00:07:19,399
a small group of people over time.

134
00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,079
Speaker 1: Because it has to be.

135
00:07:21,079 --> 00:07:24,879
Speaker 4: A small group number one, because we all have limited

136
00:07:26,439 --> 00:07:31,839
mental capacity to retain amounts of information. But you also

137
00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,800
you can't form deep, meaningful bonds with a large group

138
00:07:35,839 --> 00:07:36,279
of people.

139
00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:37,720
Speaker 1: So just for that.

140
00:07:37,759 --> 00:07:40,920
Speaker 4: Reason, you want it to be a small group of people.

141
00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,360
And then it has to be personal because to be

142
00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,240
truly successful in this, like, you're going to be talking

143
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,920
about some stuff that is very uncomfortable at some point

144
00:07:51,959 --> 00:07:56,360
in your career, and you have to have a level

145
00:07:56,399 --> 00:08:01,279
of confidence in the group that you can be open

146
00:08:01,319 --> 00:08:02,879
and honest with that because if you aren't able to

147
00:08:02,879 --> 00:08:05,920
be open and honest. You're not going to disclose all

148
00:08:05,959 --> 00:08:09,560
the relevant factors that they need to help you make

149
00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,959
the right decision. And I've been in one group for

150
00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:19,360
it's been ten years now, and it's Yeah, but the

151
00:08:19,399 --> 00:08:22,920
people in that group, like, there's no doubt in my mind,

152
00:08:23,279 --> 00:08:27,480
every single one of us would lie to a grand

153
00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,160
jury to protect the others in it. That's how tight

154
00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,559
the trust level is in there. And that's the only

155
00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:33,879
reason it's been successful.

156
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,639
Speaker 3: I think it's a good analogy for how close of

157
00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,519
a relationship you've formed with these other people. Do you

158
00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,919
find it like bi weekly bi monthly when you're meeting

159
00:08:52,039 --> 00:08:54,799
everyone sort of knows where you're at, like what's going,

160
00:08:54,879 --> 00:08:57,799
what's current on in your professional life, And when you

161
00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,279
bring up a new idea, they just know where it's

162
00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:04,279
next or is it sharing your current situation and bringing

163
00:09:04,279 --> 00:09:07,480
in concrete questions or stat is in the way they

164
00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:09,279
don't need to sort of pay attention to know everything

165
00:09:09,279 --> 00:09:09,639
about you.

166
00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a little bit of both.

167
00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,039
Speaker 4: We meet bi weekly, and the bi weekly meeting is

168
00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:21,200
organized so that each individual has a certain a fixed

169
00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:25,679
amount of time and a certain list of things that

170
00:09:25,279 --> 00:09:29,159
you have to communicate, you know, it's almost like a

171
00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,919
like a gram type or agile type meeting. Here's what

172
00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,840
I've been working on, Here's what I'm planning on doing next,

173
00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:39,639
Here's where I'm having problems.

174
00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,799
Speaker 1: But then there's also we have a private chat.

175
00:09:46,639 --> 00:09:51,480
Speaker 4: Channel that we use so that we post messages in

176
00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:57,279
between those and do longer form conversations in there. And

177
00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:03,240
then there's also a third option there if something happens

178
00:10:03,279 --> 00:10:06,759
in your life that you either need immediate feedback or

179
00:10:06,799 --> 00:10:10,720
you need more time than what's allowed in the bi

180
00:10:10,759 --> 00:10:15,200
weekly meetings, will do ad hoc meetings specific to that topic.

181
00:10:16,799 --> 00:10:18,399
Speaker 2: Is there just for contexts?

182
00:10:18,639 --> 00:10:20,519
Speaker 3: Would you be willing to share maybe one of your

183
00:10:20,639 --> 00:10:24,360
recent either realizations or what you were what we had

184
00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:26,159
brought up in the meeting, just as far, you know,

185
00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,519
for people that maybe haven't been in a Mastermind before.

186
00:10:29,279 --> 00:10:30,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

187
00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:35,960
Speaker 4: The range of topics is not solely focused on careers.

188
00:10:37,279 --> 00:10:39,000
A lot of it has been you know, hey, I'm

189
00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,159
thinking about taking this new job, I'm struggling with this

190
00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:45,919
at work, thinking about launching this new business. What do

191
00:10:45,919 --> 00:10:48,399
you guys think about it? But it's been personal stuff too,

192
00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:53,039
like whenever, whenever my mom passed away earlier this year.

193
00:10:53,279 --> 00:10:56,759
You know, I was I made a lot of bad

194
00:10:56,799 --> 00:10:59,399
decisions after that and fell off the train, and they

195
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,039
were are super helpful and instrumental in calling me out

196
00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,399
and getting me back on track. Some of the members

197
00:11:06,399 --> 00:11:11,399
there have been through divorces and those were extensive topics

198
00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,000
with getting that done.

199
00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,399
Speaker 3: Wow, I mean it sounds you know, it sounds like

200
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,320
it's more than just the ideas having a dedicated support network,

201
00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:22,799
not just like I know people talk about it, you know,

202
00:11:22,879 --> 00:11:25,519
how do I deal with certain personal situations?

203
00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:27,799
Speaker 2: Where do I go? Who can I talk about that?

204
00:11:27,879 --> 00:11:29,519
But actually having gone.

205
00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,960
Speaker 3: Out and found the appropriate group, you know, we're calling

206
00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,120
them a mastermind group, but you know, by any name,

207
00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:38,039
really having a dedicated a team of people to support

208
00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,840
each other, Like I can see how valuable that is.

209
00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:42,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

210
00:11:42,519 --> 00:11:45,120
Speaker 4: I think that's probably one of the big misconceptions around

211
00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:50,360
masterminds as we think it's career or business oriented, and

212
00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:55,799
it is because that consumes a large part of our life.

213
00:11:55,879 --> 00:11:59,679
But you know, if you're dealing with the passing of

214
00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,639
a family member or a divorce or something in your

215
00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:06,919
personal life, that's going to affect your professional life as well.

216
00:12:07,039 --> 00:12:08,519
Speaker 1: So it's in scope.

217
00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I totally totally got that. I feel like,

218
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,840
you know, maybe you skipped over this. It's so it

219
00:12:15,879 --> 00:12:19,000
must be so difficult to have found this group of

220
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,679
people that you've been with for ten years now, How

221
00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:23,360
did that even come to exist?

222
00:12:24,159 --> 00:12:28,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, I responded to a tweet.

223
00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:30,240
Speaker 1: No.

224
00:12:30,279 --> 00:12:33,039
Speaker 4: One of the one of my friends sent out a

225
00:12:33,039 --> 00:12:34,919
Actually this is how we met. He sent out a

226
00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,000
tweet and said, hey, I'm thinking about starting a mastermind.

227
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,519
Anyone who's interested let me know. And I had read,

228
00:12:41,519 --> 00:12:44,080
you know, Napoleon Hill's Think and Grow Rich and was

229
00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,360
familiar with the concept and had tried at that point

230
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,720
a couple of online masterminds, and.

231
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:52,080
Speaker 1: I tried like some.

232
00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,200
Speaker 4: Subscription based mastermind groups where you actually pay to be

233
00:12:57,279 --> 00:13:01,039
in there. Pro tip don't ever do that, I know, right,

234
00:13:02,879 --> 00:13:04,639
And so I was like, yeah, we'll try it, you know.

235
00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:05,879
Speaker 1: And it really was.

236
00:13:05,919 --> 00:13:09,639
Speaker 4: Awkward at first, you know, and it was very at first.

237
00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:13,759
It was you know, totally focused on things that you

238
00:13:13,799 --> 00:13:16,320
would only say in public, like you know, oh, here's

239
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,440
what I'm working on at work, or hey, I'm thinking

240
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,440
about launching this product, you know, and things like that.

241
00:13:21,519 --> 00:13:25,320
But then as we as we got to know each

242
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,559
other better and became closer over the years. That's whenever

243
00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:34,519
things really started to take this whole group to a

244
00:13:34,639 --> 00:13:38,799
next level and make it something that I just can't

245
00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,799
imagine being at this stage in my life without that group.

246
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:44,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I know.

247
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,879
Speaker 3: Now it's actually become a more common topic to find

248
00:13:48,919 --> 00:13:51,759
your job. Group I think is now a thing if

249
00:13:51,759 --> 00:13:54,360
you're searching for a career and some other people are too,

250
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:56,480
you can bounce ideas off of them and it's more

251
00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:57,440
focused in that way.

252
00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:58,960
Speaker 2: But I feel like it's sort of.

253
00:13:58,919 --> 00:14:01,799
Speaker 3: Limited and people aren't changing their careers or their jobs

254
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:06,080
so frequently, so having the context already of where you're

255
00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,759
at can be I think super helpful there.

256
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, Like the long term, being with the

257
00:14:12,879 --> 00:14:18,559
same group for a long time is helpful because just

258
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,519
to use myself as an example, like, they know I

259
00:14:22,559 --> 00:14:26,320
will jump on a shiny object and chase it all

260
00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,759
day long and then drop it and walk away from it,

261
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:31,720
and so they're great. Whenever I come up with something,

262
00:14:31,799 --> 00:14:35,159
they're like, nah, dude, we've seen this before. We know

263
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,919
exactly where this is going. Go back to what you're

264
00:14:37,919 --> 00:14:39,639
supposed to be doing and quit fucking around.

265
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:41,759
Speaker 3: I think we have a new alias for you for

266
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,600
the coming episodes. It will be Will Colden Retriever button.

267
00:14:46,639 --> 00:14:52,360
Speaker 2: Right, a ball, you get a ball. I just read this.

268
00:14:52,399 --> 00:14:57,000
Speaker 3: Actually he mentioned it Napoleon Hill in Think and Grow,

269
00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,120
but I don't know if this is true. Google says

270
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,240
it was originally coin in the Law of Success, which

271
00:15:03,279 --> 00:15:05,879
is I mean more so. There's lots of books dedicated

272
00:15:05,919 --> 00:15:08,480
to this topic realistically, and I think, well, we see

273
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,200
them in some sort of form. I think in the

274
00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,840
professional world we even see things like guilds that pop up,

275
00:15:14,159 --> 00:15:17,559
or mentorship groups or you know, a buddy system or whatever.

276
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,480
But I feel like really having an intentional aspect behind

277
00:15:20,519 --> 00:15:24,200
it is something so totally lost. I probably worked in

278
00:15:24,279 --> 00:15:28,600
tech for ten years before this concept even came up

279
00:15:28,679 --> 00:15:31,039
to me as something that could be done, and that

280
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:32,440
is really surprising.

281
00:15:32,559 --> 00:15:33,039
Speaker 2: Honestly.

282
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:40,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think about that a lot as I get older.

283
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,279
Well not I am old, let's just be realistic on that.

284
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,840
But anyway, like, I feel like somewhere in the last

285
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:53,519
few generations, we lost a skill set as humans that

286
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,200
we had for tens of thousands of years. You know,

287
00:15:57,279 --> 00:16:02,399
of sitting around the campfire with the trialible elders, you know,

288
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:07,440
teaching the younger people in the group what they learned

289
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,399
and how to avoid those mistakes. And I feel like

290
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,159
somewhere in the last couple of generations we've lost that.

291
00:16:15,919 --> 00:16:19,600
And I think that's where the mastermind is helpful, as

292
00:16:19,679 --> 00:16:24,960
it's trying to like reconnect that storytelling and close knit

293
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,120
group process.

294
00:16:27,559 --> 00:16:28,279
Speaker 2: That's interesting.

295
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:33,159
Speaker 3: So there's a psychological or sociological impact from our own

296
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,279
evolution that actually drives the success of this sort of.

297
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:42,200
Speaker 2: Group collaboration that by nature we're not focused in.

298
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,080
Speaker 3: Because I mean, I think you're right, because there's also

299
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,840
something at the family level. I mean, certain culture is

300
00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,000
obviously focused more on that than others.

301
00:16:49,279 --> 00:16:51,600
Speaker 2: Being an American and.

302
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,799
Speaker 3: I believe you are too, I know that's super underplayed.

303
00:16:54,879 --> 00:16:58,360
I feel like depending on where your roots are from,

304
00:16:57,519 --> 00:17:02,919
I don't discusslenging even business problems with my immediate family

305
00:17:03,039 --> 00:17:06,319
is not the sort of thing. And if I was

306
00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:09,680
looking for a new job, I can't really ask them.

307
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:11,960
I mean, they may have some high level feedback, but

308
00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:15,559
like what my industry is like was never something that

309
00:17:15,559 --> 00:17:18,240
they would be able to really understand.

310
00:17:18,279 --> 00:17:20,119
Speaker 2: I remember when I was in high school, my brother.

311
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,039
Speaker 3: Would ask me frequently, does that make a lot of money,

312
00:17:24,559 --> 00:17:28,720
and I know after many years that that's not the

313
00:17:28,759 --> 00:17:32,680
thing he cares about. But it's very hard to describe

314
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,319
your situation to someone that is in a completely different

315
00:17:35,319 --> 00:17:39,279
field with completely different challenges. So finding those people that

316
00:17:39,319 --> 00:17:42,960
you can actually work with on an ongoing way is

317
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,160
I feel like huge can be a huge win.

318
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:47,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

319
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:54,400
Speaker 4: Like I think the quality of advice is directly proportional to.

320
00:17:55,839 --> 00:17:57,839
Speaker 1: The context that the person giving.

321
00:17:57,599 --> 00:18:02,119
Speaker 4: That advice has, you know, like, I'm not going to

322
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:07,839
go ask my family doctor whether he thinks that terror

323
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,039
form is just completely out the door because of their

324
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,359
changes to their open source licensing model.

325
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,599
Speaker 2: I mean now, and I wonder, you know, it could

326
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:19,359
be a secret terror form lover.

327
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:24,720
Speaker 3: That you're missing out on that opportunity. Really, you know,

328
00:18:24,759 --> 00:18:28,400
maybe he's been thinking about leaving medicine and going over

329
00:18:28,519 --> 00:18:31,680
to software technology for the last ten years and never

330
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,400
really got that opportunity and need someone to you know,

331
00:18:34,519 --> 00:18:35,000
push them.

332
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:41,079
Speaker 1: In that direction, right, can't rule it out, you know.

333
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,440
Speaker 3: The thing I'm thinking about is, since it's so late

334
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,640
in our careers, that at least for me to learn

335
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:49,319
about this, Like, why is it this way?

336
00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:51,559
Speaker 2: You mentioned that we may.

337
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,039
Speaker 3: Have lost in the last few generations as a society.

338
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,319
But I'm like looking at the education system even all

339
00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:01,039
the way through university, Like you're very focused on as

340
00:19:01,039 --> 00:19:04,960
an individual you solve problems, especially in academia, right, you

341
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,480
know there's concrete questions with definitive objective answers or at

342
00:19:09,559 --> 00:19:13,240
least a grading system in place. And I remember some

343
00:19:13,279 --> 00:19:16,319
of my high school teachers would say to certain study

344
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,359
group clicks, you won't get accepted to a university as

345
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,440
a team. You go as individuals, and you won't get

346
00:19:22,519 --> 00:19:26,599
hired as a team to jobs. I feel like from

347
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,319
working professionally for a lot of years and also thinking

348
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,200
about masterminds and how groups and our networks can help

349
00:19:32,279 --> 00:19:37,640
us in our individual careers specific problems professionally personally, it

350
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,240
just seems like that's wrong advice, Like realistically learning how

351
00:19:41,279 --> 00:19:45,440
to operate as a team in some capacity not necessarily

352
00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:48,480
tied to your job seems like a huge miss for

353
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,640
our education systems across.

354
00:19:50,319 --> 00:19:51,920
Speaker 1: The world, Oh for sure.

355
00:19:52,079 --> 00:19:56,799
Speaker 4: Like I've spent a majority of my career in early

356
00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:01,720
stage tech startups, and it's a thing one hundred percent.

357
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,039
You know you'll have the founder who starts the company

358
00:20:05,039 --> 00:20:08,400
and then they hire a tech person and oh, we

359
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,119
need another tech person. Well, guess where that hire is

360
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,039
coming from, somebody that the first tech guy knows. And

361
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,720
even at the advisory level, you know, oh, we need

362
00:20:18,759 --> 00:20:24,279
an advisor on the board who has financial experience with

363
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,640
SaaS based applications. Oh, hey, my buddy does that? Oh

364
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,799
your buddy, how convenient? You know, because it's because and

365
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,839
I don't think that's a bad thing. It's a limiting

366
00:20:36,839 --> 00:20:40,240
thing for sure, because unless your buddies with someone your

367
00:20:40,319 --> 00:20:41,480
your options are limited.

368
00:20:41,839 --> 00:20:45,599
Speaker 1: But it is I think it is a good.

369
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,359
Speaker 4: Thing for bringing in known expertise to help you succeed.

370
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,440
Speaker 3: I mean, there is there is a just recently, I

371
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,160
think we've learned of concerning bias where obviously you you're

372
00:20:57,759 --> 00:21:00,640
in network is people who are similar to you, and

373
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,160
who you hire through interview process, of course, is bias

374
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:07,559
towards similar thinking. But yeah, I mean the startups obviously

375
00:21:07,599 --> 00:21:10,519
go the route you're pulling people from your network can't

376
00:21:10,559 --> 00:21:13,119
be helped there and you would just be at a

377
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,759
loss without that. You do need someone to fill that spot,

378
00:21:15,799 --> 00:21:18,200
and it's so much easier to evaluate someone you know

379
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:22,799
than random people from the Internet, of which ninety nine

380
00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:27,400
percent of them are resumes that were completed by AI bought.

381
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,319
Speaker 4: Now right, can you imagine what you would have to

382
00:21:30,319 --> 00:21:33,480
go through if you posted a job ad for like

383
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,799
a CTO or an advisory board member on indeed dot com?

384
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,119
Speaker 3: You know, I don't actually have to imagine. So one

385
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,680
of the groups I'm in actually talks about this some

386
00:21:43,759 --> 00:21:45,839
of the challenges where they have a new position open,

387
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,880
even at the executive level, and how to find people.

388
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:50,680
Speaker 2: And obviously the challenge is.

389
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,759
Speaker 3: The higher up you go, the more concern you are

390
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,200
that they're able to maybe be effective in that role,

391
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:57,880
and so you may be more likely to pull from

392
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:02,240
your network, which is incredibly limiting. So focusing on having

393
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:08,039
the appropriate network is critical for success. But even at

394
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:13,720
the lead engineer, architectural level, engineering manager, et cetera, you

395
00:22:13,759 --> 00:22:16,839
have a spot open and you'll have thousands of resumes

396
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,319
coming in for people that are, according to the resume,

397
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,200
are qualified. And that's a non trivial problem to solve.

398
00:22:24,079 --> 00:22:27,519
There's some there's some statistical models that say the thirty

399
00:22:27,559 --> 00:22:30,680
seven percent rule is what applies?

400
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:33,839
Speaker 1: What's the thirty seven percent rule?

401
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,279
Speaker 3: Ah, So, like the most random number that exists is

402
00:22:36,319 --> 00:22:39,119
the number thirty seven, people believe.

403
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:39,880
Speaker 2: People believe that.

404
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,599
Speaker 3: The numbers, like the numbers three and seven are the

405
00:22:42,599 --> 00:22:44,880
most random because they're not five, which is the middle

406
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,839
and even fields not random. One is first, you know

407
00:22:48,039 --> 00:22:52,240
zeros out nine is and so the numbers thirty seven

408
00:22:52,279 --> 00:22:54,480
and seventy three tend to be random. And it actually

409
00:22:54,599 --> 00:22:56,880
turns out that thirty seven is like part of the

410
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:02,519
golden ratio there, it's part of the derivation. And if

411
00:23:02,559 --> 00:23:05,200
we're hiring something, it's called the I think it's called

412
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,519
the marriage problem, hiring problem, et cetera. How do I

413
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,559
know when to actually hire someone? And the strategy goes

414
00:23:13,079 --> 00:23:16,440
that interview thirty seven percent of your pool that you

415
00:23:16,559 --> 00:23:20,519
want for some pool size, and after the thirty seven percent,

416
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:22,920
don't hire any of those people, but use them as

417
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,720
the strategy for knowing where your bar is, what sort

418
00:23:25,759 --> 00:23:29,799
of quality of engineers are getting in hire the next

419
00:23:30,559 --> 00:23:33,200
best one that's better than all the rest of the

420
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,519
pool that you've sampled. And that's so you know, if

421
00:23:36,519 --> 00:23:38,200
you say I want to go through one hundred applicants,

422
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:39,839
even tho if I have a thousand or ten thousand,

423
00:23:41,799 --> 00:23:43,920
go through the first thirty seven and then starting with

424
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:45,640
a thirty eighth one, hire the first one that's better

425
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,480
than all the other thirty seven you've hired, And that's

426
00:23:48,079 --> 00:23:49,680
that's the strategy.

427
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: That's interesting. Seems like a lot of work, but hiring

428
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,160
is a lot of work anyway. So we're going to

429
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,480
be nice to pull from your network, right Yeah.

430
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 4: Speaking of which, I I think that's a really important

431
00:24:04,519 --> 00:24:09,200
precursor to finding or creating a mastermind group that works

432
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,359
for you, is like, how do you connect with those people?

433
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,400
And you have to you have to know people, which

434
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,440
means building your network. And I know, for me, for

435
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,559
a long time, I was not a fan of the

436
00:24:21,559 --> 00:24:26,799
word network because it sounded all salesy and smoozy and

437
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,319
you know, it was going to have to make small

438
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,079
talk with Bill and Ted on the back nine, you know,

439
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:34,319
or whatever, and.

440
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 1: So I had a really negative perception of network. But

441
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:41,480
I don't think it's that way at all.

442
00:24:41,759 --> 00:24:46,039
Speaker 4: I think it could also be synonymous with your your

443
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,759
work buddies or you know, you're even your gaming buddies.

444
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 1: You know.

445
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 2: No, I'm totally with you.

446
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 3: I I always shutter when I hear the word networking

447
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,799
as a thing that you can do. I'm definitely in

448
00:25:00,559 --> 00:25:03,720
by nature and so that doesn't come to me naturally.

449
00:25:03,799 --> 00:25:07,519
That just you'll have some a Pao after party or

450
00:25:07,559 --> 00:25:09,839
something and you can go and talk to people. So

451
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,200
if that works for you, you know, it's a great

452
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,440
way to start building a network. I found I need

453
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,440
to have some sort of strategy that works to actually start.

454
00:25:17,759 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 2: So if I'm at a conference.

455
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 3: I will go and specifically talk to the vendors. I

456
00:25:21,759 --> 00:25:23,640
find that it's much easier for me to do that,

457
00:25:23,759 --> 00:25:26,680
and I have real questions about how they're finding the conference,

458
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,440
whether or not it's affective for them, what they're doing there,

459
00:25:29,599 --> 00:25:32,480
what they hope to gain out of it. And I

460
00:25:32,559 --> 00:25:34,720
try to build my network that way because I may

461
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,519
actually need to get back in touch with one of

462
00:25:37,519 --> 00:25:38,839
them for a product that I want.

463
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 2: So that's where I start.

464
00:25:42,559 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, an approach I used that I kind of liked

465
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:50,000
was actually giving talks at conferences, you know, applying for conferences,

466
00:25:50,319 --> 00:25:53,400
filling out the paper. And the reason I like that

467
00:25:53,559 --> 00:25:58,160
is because then I'm not going to the conference to network.

468
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,440
I'm going because I have to give a talk there.

469
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,359
And then I give my talk, which introduces me to

470
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,519
a lot of people, and for the rest of the conference,

471
00:26:08,079 --> 00:26:11,519
you'll actually meet people and they'll be asking you a

472
00:26:11,599 --> 00:26:14,519
question about something you said in your talk or something

473
00:26:14,559 --> 00:26:18,119
related to your talk. So now I'm not meeting strangers

474
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,079
and having to make small talk or figure out what

475
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,279
to say next, or stand there awkwardly staring at my shoes.

476
00:26:24,559 --> 00:26:27,359
There's an automatic conversation starter there, and that's been super

477
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:28,000
helpful for me.

478
00:26:28,519 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you're talking super controversial, you can post

479
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,799
it on LinkedIn and have people you know coming up

480
00:26:32,799 --> 00:26:36,440
to you and say, hey, well, you know I disagree

481
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:37,440
with everything.

482
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 2: That used that right.

483
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,599
Speaker 1: As you should, because I'm just making this up.

484
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 3: I mean, realistically, I think there is this aspect of Oh,

485
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:48,759
conference speaking is so difficult.

486
00:26:48,839 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 2: It's such a challenge.

487
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,319
Speaker 3: You know, I don't want to have to do all

488
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,640
this work, or I'm afraid of conference speaking, or I'm

489
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,680
not far enough of my career or experience. I think

490
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,920
almost everyone out there, after about two years professional work,

491
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,079
has done something unique that almost no one else has

492
00:27:04,079 --> 00:27:05,920
done before, in that exact way that you were.

493
00:27:05,839 --> 00:27:07,519
Speaker 2: Now qualified to talk about.

494
00:27:07,599 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 3: And if you want to get accepted to conferences, you

495
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,359
just think about what you care about, and I bet

496
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,240
you can come up with a thirty minute talk which

497
00:27:15,279 --> 00:27:19,200
discussed that and teaches people about that subject. And I

498
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,359
remember standing up at a conference and giving a talk

499
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:23,079
on security and.

500
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 2: Someone's like, how did you be?

501
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 3: Like, how do I become a security expert like you

502
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:27,720
and you know, can give talks.

503
00:27:27,759 --> 00:27:29,559
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, you know, I didn't really.

504
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,559
Speaker 3: Consider myself a security expert, but here I am standing

505
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,240
up on stage giving a talk about this.

506
00:27:34,319 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 2: You know, you start doing something over and over.

507
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 3: Again, and eventually someone may be like, you know, hey,

508
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,079
I want you to speak at our conference.

509
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 2: So I think it's actually if that's the strategy that

510
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:44,480
could work for you.

511
00:27:44,519 --> 00:27:47,279
Speaker 3: I think really having that justification for where to go

512
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,839
what to speak about, is for sure really helpful to

513
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:50,759
expend your network.

514
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:51,559
Speaker 1: Yeah.

515
00:27:51,599 --> 00:27:53,559
Speaker 4: I think there's a hidden benefit there as well too,

516
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:58,319
because everyone gets nervous giving a talk, and it's natural

517
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,759
you're putting yourself out there. But I think it's something

518
00:28:01,759 --> 00:28:06,240
that you have to force yourself to get through. You

519
00:28:06,279 --> 00:28:08,680
may not get over it, but you will get through it.

520
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:17,079
And it's a precursor to having more difficult conversations at

521
00:28:17,079 --> 00:28:20,839
some future point in your life, because if you're no

522
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,920
matter what your life looks like, you're going to have

523
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,480
awkward difficult moments and doing something like speaking at a

524
00:28:27,519 --> 00:28:35,119
conference where there's literally no way to fail. But you

525
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,640
get through that mental obstacle, it's going to help you

526
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:43,680
build that muscle memory to have future conversations about difficult

527
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,160
topics where there is a meaningful impact to not having

528
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:47,920
that conversation.

529
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

530
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,359
Speaker 3: I mean, it's really not a lot different than sitting

531
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,480
in a room with six people and discussing some sort

532
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,880
of architecture or a tool choice. Like when I'm standing

533
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,759
up there and giving a talk, there's just the six

534
00:28:56,799 --> 00:28:59,440
people in the front row. It's hard to pay attention

535
00:28:59,599 --> 00:29:02,079
more than that. The lights are blinding your eyes anyway,

536
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,359
So it's not really like there's a lot of people.

537
00:29:05,359 --> 00:29:08,200
And there's usually a lot less people than are listening

538
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,680
to this podcast. So as far as nerves go, that's

539
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,119
not really super relevant.

540
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 4: You usually get through it, Yeah, for sure, and it's

541
00:29:17,039 --> 00:29:18,920
something you'll just get accustomed to over time.

542
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 2: Do you remember how you got started speaking of conferences?

543
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,799
Speaker 1: No? Absolutely, no idea?

544
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 2: Are you do you still get up on stage and

545
00:29:29,759 --> 00:29:30,759
get nervous sometimes?

546
00:29:31,279 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 4: I get nervous every time, Yeah, every single time.

547
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, is it noticeable to me? It is?

548
00:29:39,559 --> 00:29:43,599
Speaker 4: But I think That's an important component of it because,

549
00:29:44,799 --> 00:29:47,200
like to me, the way I look at at a

550
00:29:47,279 --> 00:29:52,160
conference and I view meetings the exact same way. In

551
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,559
our industry, we can say that the value of a

552
00:29:56,599 --> 00:30:00,720
person is one hundred bucks an hour, you know, just

553
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:06,640
pretty much across the board around the world, tech labor

554
00:30:07,319 --> 00:30:10,799
is one hundred bucks an hour. So if I'm speaking

555
00:30:10,839 --> 00:30:16,400
to ten people for an hour, that's a thousand dollars investment.

556
00:30:17,279 --> 00:30:22,440
So if I'm speaking to you know, one hundred people

557
00:30:23,319 --> 00:30:27,720
at one hundred dollars an hour, that's a significant amount

558
00:30:27,799 --> 00:30:31,200
of money. And so I put that pressure on myself,

559
00:30:31,319 --> 00:30:34,559
like how am I going to deliver one hundred thousand

560
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,920
dollars of value to these people? And that's the way

561
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,960
I approach giving my talks. So yeah, I am nervous

562
00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:42,960
whenever I grow up and I have to deliver one

563
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,839
hundred thousand dollars of value in one hour.

564
00:30:45,599 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 2: Wow.

565
00:30:46,039 --> 00:30:47,799
Speaker 3: I mean if I was thinking about it like that,

566
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,519
I don't know if I would be confident getting up

567
00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:58,880
on stage. Ie just scared some people away with that mentality,

568
00:30:59,279 --> 00:31:01,640
you know. I think I think having something you're passionate

569
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:07,359
about is relevant, and your passion actually helps other people

570
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,400
is how I look at it. So when I'm giving

571
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,759
a talk, it's usually from a place of like, I

572
00:31:11,799 --> 00:31:14,079
really want to rant about something, Like I hear people

573
00:31:14,119 --> 00:31:17,039
doing something ridiculously in a weird way that I just

574
00:31:17,039 --> 00:31:18,440
would never personally approve of.

575
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 2: Why do I not approve of it?

576
00:31:20,039 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 3: Like?

577
00:31:20,359 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: Why do I think that way?

578
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 3: And then I evaluate that I'm like, Okay, I can

579
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,440
actually say something about this topic, whether or not it's

580
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,519
the expert advice or anything, and it's just another idea

581
00:31:29,559 --> 00:31:31,519
that I'm throwing out there and trying to make a

582
00:31:31,519 --> 00:31:36,200
little bit entertaining for a group of five to a

583
00:31:36,319 --> 00:31:37,440
thousand people at a time.

584
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed. And then you know, the way that comes back.

585
00:31:43,079 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 4: Is in you meet people. People will give you feedback

586
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,880
on it. Some of those will turn into relationships, and

587
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:56,279
then those relation relationships will help you form either form

588
00:31:56,319 --> 00:32:00,839
a mastermind or join a mastermind they may already be

589
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,160
part of, or whatever group name you want to call it.

590
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,319
You know, the name mastermind, I think is just a

591
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:13,519
easy term to describe what the goals of this group is.

592
00:32:13,559 --> 00:32:16,960
But you can actually call it an anything you want,

593
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,400
and there's probably other names for it out there that

594
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:21,720
I'm just not familiar with.

595
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 3: I mean, I really wish I had support for some

596
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,880
of the challenging decisions that I had to make earlier

597
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,240
on in my career, Like what is even the difference

598
00:32:30,279 --> 00:32:33,720
between these different jobs? How do I negotiate a salary?

599
00:32:34,759 --> 00:32:36,759
But it you know, it keeps on going more than that, Like,

600
00:32:37,119 --> 00:32:39,119
I don't know when I'm trying to solve a challenging

601
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,119
technical problem, who I can necessarily turn to. And I

602
00:32:42,119 --> 00:32:44,559
can obviously ask random questions on the internet, but I

603
00:32:44,559 --> 00:32:47,640
don't necessarily feel like other people are super invested in

604
00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:50,359
making sure I have the best answer that I couldn't.

605
00:32:50,359 --> 00:32:53,240
I wish someone had said to me early on in

606
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,119
my career, you need to find your group where you

607
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,400
can start asking these questions too, that are comfortable and

608
00:32:59,519 --> 00:33:04,079
invested in actually giving you relevant answers. Because it's also

609
00:33:04,119 --> 00:33:05,640
a great way for you to find out what other

610
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,240
people are doing. What is it like in other companies?

611
00:33:09,799 --> 00:33:12,599
How are they working on things that could be relevant

612
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,240
in helping you figure out what you want to do

613
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,000
next to your career or challenging tech problem.

614
00:33:16,839 --> 00:33:19,039
Speaker 1: You've got, Yeah, for sure.

615
00:33:19,559 --> 00:33:23,799
Speaker 4: One of the things that I only realized in the

616
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:28,519
last few years was that I actually had mentors my

617
00:33:28,759 --> 00:33:32,880
entire career. I just didn't know what a mentor was.

618
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:38,519
You know, I grew up in rural Texas in the seventies,

619
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,359
and I can guarantee nobody.

620
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: Used the word mentor there.

621
00:33:43,799 --> 00:33:46,279
Speaker 4: So I was probably in my thirties before I ever

622
00:33:47,359 --> 00:33:52,160
heard the word and had a definition for it. But

623
00:33:52,279 --> 00:33:54,759
in retrospect, looking back, there were a lot of people

624
00:33:54,839 --> 00:33:58,079
who were mentors in my life that I just didn't

625
00:33:58,119 --> 00:33:59,680
realize that that's what they were doing.

626
00:34:00,319 --> 00:34:02,039
Speaker 1: And so I think I would.

627
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:07,119
Speaker 4: Encourage anyone listening to do that same retrospective exercise. You know,

628
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:12,360
who was it in your past that's been trying to

629
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,159
tell you what to do, whether you were receptive to

630
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,920
the way that they communicated that or not. You know,

631
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,960
things specifically back to some of my senior officers in

632
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,360
the military, they were.

633
00:34:25,159 --> 00:34:26,760
Speaker 1: You know, they didn't have the greatest.

634
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,760
Speaker 4: Social skills, but they were trying to do the right thing.

635
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:35,599
And so that's something to reflect on. Hey, the delivery

636
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:39,159
of the message was wrong, but the message itself was accurate,

637
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,840
you know, and that can help you identify the people

638
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,119
who have been trying to help you in the past.

639
00:34:45,559 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: That may help you.

640
00:34:48,119 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 4: Narrow the list of people of how to reach out of,

641
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,679
who to reach out to for questions about your future.

642
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,119
Speaker 3: I mean the dedicated group, thinking of them as all

643
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:01,039
sort of peer mentors on whatever act see there have

644
00:35:01,159 --> 00:35:04,119
experience on right, you know, whether because we're all have

645
00:35:04,199 --> 00:35:06,360
different careers in some way, you know, we didn't all

646
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,199
go to the same schools and get the same jobs

647
00:35:09,199 --> 00:35:12,559
at the same companies, that varied experience can be really

648
00:35:12,559 --> 00:35:16,639
helpful there. And you mentioned this to me actually offline

649
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,840
a while back, And so I went through this little exercise,

650
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,800
and I realized that my version of mentors out there

651
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,800
were people at every job that I felt comfortable asking

652
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,519
a lot of questions too, no matter what I thought

653
00:35:30,519 --> 00:35:32,480
the question like, it was never like Okay, you know,

654
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,159
this is a stupid question. I'm afraid of having you

655
00:35:36,199 --> 00:35:38,239
answer it. But like I was always trying to get

656
00:35:38,599 --> 00:35:40,719
more understanding of what I was working on, like who

657
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:42,960
I could go and actually ask stuff to. And the

658
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,960
more questions I asked of these couple of individuals, the

659
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,840
more comfortable I felt asking sort of maybe non directly

660
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:55,079
professional related or work related questions, you know, things about salary,

661
00:35:55,119 --> 00:35:57,559
et cetera, and then eventually about my career and maybe

662
00:35:57,559 --> 00:36:00,880
personal life as well, and I never really considered those mentors,

663
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,360
but looking back, it does really feel like if I

664
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,760
had to coin that term for something, it would be

665
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,960
people that I'm comfortable asking questions to and being told

666
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,599
answers that I could then go execute effectively.

667
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, and that that process of asking questions

668
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,920
is another one of those areas where it's uncomfortable at first,

669
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:30,039
but with practice, it gets easier over time, and just

670
00:36:30,079 --> 00:36:34,679
like any skill, you become more advanced with it over time.

671
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: So at first, you know, you may.

672
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 4: Be only comfortable asking one or two people very limited questions,

673
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,960
but over time you'll get better at that, and then

674
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,079
you'll get a little more courageous, and then pretty soon

675
00:36:50,159 --> 00:36:54,760
you know you're posting on stack overflow, whose stupid idea

676
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,840
is JavaScript anyway or whatever?

677
00:37:01,119 --> 00:37:05,159
Speaker 3: He's got a personal vendetta there against the creators.

678
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:07,559
Speaker 1: No, not really.

679
00:37:07,639 --> 00:37:10,639
Speaker 4: I love to make fun of javascrouped, but it has

680
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,039
done a lot of great things for our industry.

681
00:37:13,599 --> 00:37:15,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think a lot of it was

682
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,960
like an accident, the creation like one week thing to

683
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,760
in the browser, and now it's something way more than.

684
00:37:22,599 --> 00:37:27,119
Speaker 4: That, right, It was a it was an emergency patch

685
00:37:27,199 --> 00:37:30,920
to resolve an issue in thirty years later.

686
00:37:31,039 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: Sure we are.

687
00:37:33,039 --> 00:37:35,039
Speaker 3: I mean I feel like that's actually what happens with

688
00:37:35,079 --> 00:37:38,039
a lot of companies in their software that they're making right.

689
00:37:38,079 --> 00:37:41,440
You know, things don't die that quickly in some circumstances,

690
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:45,159
and whatever work you've done can end up as that

691
00:37:45,199 --> 00:37:49,400
critical component in your company software. And you know, I

692
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,159
for sure want to have someone sort of evaluating the

693
00:37:52,199 --> 00:37:54,239
work then I've done. And maybe I don't have that

694
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:58,000
peer in my current company that I can actually go to,

695
00:37:58,159 --> 00:38:00,480
and so I need to go out and the world

696
00:38:00,599 --> 00:38:02,559
unfortunately and try to find someone. And I just have

697
00:38:02,599 --> 00:38:05,679
to say, as like, being an engineer doing anything like

698
00:38:05,679 --> 00:38:08,519
this is super uncomfortable, Like at no part and earlier

699
00:38:08,559 --> 00:38:10,440
on would I feel like, oh, yeah, no, I just

700
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,519
want to go do this, Like if someone told me

701
00:38:12,559 --> 00:38:15,239
to go do this, I would definitely not at least

702
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,119
I would have been told. But I just it's just

703
00:38:18,119 --> 00:38:21,360
such a struggle, Like you say, responding to someone on

704
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,360
a Twitter after posting a message like that was not

705
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,360
okay for me, Like that was definitely something I didn't

706
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:33,079
want to do and looking back, yeah, like just do

707
00:38:33,159 --> 00:38:38,360
it anyway.

708
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, I think that's a really good point

709
00:38:38,559 --> 00:38:40,000
to elaborate on.

710
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,760
Speaker 1: Is why bother doing this? Like why you know I.

711
00:38:44,039 --> 00:38:48,599
Speaker 4: Started off this episode saying it can be I can't

712
00:38:48,639 --> 00:38:50,239
remember the exact words I use it. It can be

713
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,800
a game changer for your career or something like that,

714
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:54,679
which is just like a bullshit term.

715
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 1: You can't actually measure that at all. So let's talk

716
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,199
about specific.

717
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 4: Measurable benefits to taking the time to curate your own

718
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:10,000
personal mastermind group. Just using myself as an example, I

719
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:16,599
directly attribute my mastermind group to the success of where

720
00:39:16,599 --> 00:39:19,199
I'm at now, and I measure the success of where

721
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:24,440
I am now as having spent three decades in early

722
00:39:24,519 --> 00:39:29,000
stage tech startups, where I have to keep my technical

723
00:39:29,039 --> 00:39:34,719
skill set above average for three decades. I feel like

724
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:40,320
that's a pretty significant accomplishment working in tech startups. There's

725
00:39:40,679 --> 00:39:45,960
various metrics floating around, but an overwhelming majority of tech

726
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:51,960
startups fail. But I've been doing it successfully for this long.

727
00:39:52,199 --> 00:39:54,519
Not all of the ones I've worked with have succeeded,

728
00:39:54,519 --> 00:40:00,119
but enough of them have. Where like five years ago, oh,

729
00:40:00,639 --> 00:40:06,360
I just didn't have to work anymore, and I do

730
00:40:06,519 --> 00:40:10,280
at this point because I really enjoy my trade and

731
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:16,440
because I suck at golf. Butte I attribute that to

732
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:21,440
having deep conversations with the people in my mastermind and

733
00:40:21,519 --> 00:40:24,280
them calling me out and helping me think through.

734
00:40:24,079 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: Decisions that led to this.

735
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,599
Speaker 4: So yeah, I think some of those those are some

736
00:40:30,639 --> 00:40:33,920
of the big wins for me of belonging.

737
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 2: To this group.

738
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 3: There's something really interesting thing that you said there when

739
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,679
we call it like our network. So I'm not going

740
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:42,639
to spoil my pick at the end of the episode,

741
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:49,239
but there is something about your success is definitely determined

742
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,239
by who your network is, more than what you're working

743
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,360
on or the promise of success there being able to

744
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,159
share getting someone else to even use your product, or

745
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,719
them knowing someone who could be your customer. That feedback

746
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,280
on it is actually more attributed to success by your network,

747
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,199
what your network looks like, than it is by any

748
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,440
individual thing. When we say that all startups fail, some

749
00:41:12,519 --> 00:41:15,760
of them get lucky, that luck is really the result

750
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:20,400
of knowing the right people, and by knowing the right people, Well,

751
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:24,000
how did you get there? One way is through starting

752
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,320
out trying to find your group that can provide insight

753
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,119
but also potential customers, etc.

754
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:32,079
Speaker 1: Yeah.

755
00:41:32,119 --> 00:41:39,320
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I think another potential misconception is that you

756
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:44,440
have to join a network with already successful people, and

757
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,719
I don't think that's true. Just I think it's more

758
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:53,639
important to join or start a group with people you're

759
00:41:53,679 --> 00:41:58,960
comfortable with, and then you'll all grow over time, you'll

760
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,159
all get better and help each other, which is going

761
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:05,639
to help each of you, and then it's like a

762
00:42:05,679 --> 00:42:09,400
compound interest type effect. So you don't have to join

763
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,599
a mastermind group with Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos.

764
00:42:13,639 --> 00:42:15,079
Speaker 1: You can start with the people you know.

765
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 2: I mean you actually shouldn't.

766
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:21,159
Speaker 3: So the research says that it's really interesting about who

767
00:42:21,199 --> 00:42:23,920
gets Nobel Prizes and how they detail them. And you'll

768
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:29,159
find that the earliest papers by Nobel Prize award winners

769
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,559
is that they're not the first one listed on the

770
00:42:31,559 --> 00:42:34,280
revolutionary work that they're being awarded the prize for.

771
00:42:35,159 --> 00:42:36,280
Speaker 2: And I think.

772
00:42:36,119 --> 00:42:38,159
Speaker 3: It's really interesting, like your name is not first on

773
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,360
that thing that you want to so why isn't it first?

774
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,880
And it turns out because often they were a part

775
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,159
of the project, but then the rest of their career

776
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,519
was still dedicated to that same idea and they wrote

777
00:42:48,519 --> 00:42:51,679
more and more papers on the topic, and eventually over time,

778
00:42:52,039 --> 00:42:55,519
they were seen as the cornerstone of success of the

779
00:42:55,679 --> 00:42:59,360
innovation that happened there, and so the original work may

780
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,280
not have been by them, but it now is so

781
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:03,280
totally attributed.

782
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 2: And if you are in a.

783
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 3: Group where there are two other people who or one

784
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:12,199
other person that's well known in any way, then whatever

785
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,280
success comes out of that will be actually attributed to

786
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,800
that person who's already been identified as the leader in

787
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:18,440
that area.

788
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,159
Speaker 2: So you like, you won't get success.

789
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,599
Speaker 3: You'll get some betup that, right, you know, maybe more money,

790
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,400
more opportunities, but it will never be your own fame

791
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,159
fortune whatever you're going for our personal enlightenment. If you

792
00:43:30,199 --> 00:43:36,079
are joining groups just because you see high profile names there, realistically.

793
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I think another.

794
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:46,519
Speaker 4: Similar continuation of that thought process is when you're talking

795
00:43:46,519 --> 00:43:47,599
about Nobel Prizes.

796
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:49,599
Speaker 1: I find it fascinating to look.

797
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 4: Back one hundred two hundred years ago at the era

798
00:43:54,079 --> 00:43:58,840
of scientific discovery. Then you know, not only with people

799
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,199
like Albert ein Stein and the work that.

800
00:44:01,119 --> 00:44:04,159
Speaker 1: He did, but the group that he was part of.

801
00:44:05,039 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 4: You know, there's like pictures of him where he's standing

802
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,400
next to like Neil's War, you know, and these other

803
00:44:14,199 --> 00:44:17,519
amazing physicists, and they were just all writing letters to

804
00:44:17,599 --> 00:44:22,719
each other, even to the point where whenever Einstein released

805
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:25,440
his theory of relativity, you know, he published a paper

806
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:32,960
some I think it was a German physicist who was

807
00:44:33,039 --> 00:44:38,159
on the front line during World War Two, plotting the

808
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:46,880
trajectory for missiles to launch at Russia. On holding the

809
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,679
line during the war, he had time to stop and

810
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:55,679
read Einstein's Theory of relativity and then came up with

811
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,199
his own solution to prove the parts of it that

812
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,559
Einstein didn't know how to prove, and then mailed a

813
00:45:01,639 --> 00:45:05,039
letter back to Albert Einstein saying, hey, here's the missing

814
00:45:05,039 --> 00:45:08,119
piece for you, you know, all while getting bombed on

815
00:45:08,159 --> 00:45:11,079
the front line during World War One. And like, to me,

816
00:45:11,199 --> 00:45:15,960
that was like that was inspiring because it's like my excuses.

817
00:45:15,519 --> 00:45:16,599
Speaker 1: Are no longer valid.

818
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 4: You know, I am not reading Albert Einstein's Theory of

819
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:26,119
Relativity by candlelight while getting bombed on the trenches of

820
00:45:26,159 --> 00:45:26,960
World War One.

821
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,559
Speaker 1: I don't have an excuse for not being successful.

822
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,639
Speaker 2: I mean, it's with the Scotch in hand, that's right.

823
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 3: It's not a very long amount of work, Like it's

824
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,920
a very thin book. That's dedicated to relativity, so you know,

825
00:45:42,119 --> 00:45:44,239
you kind of get through it really quickly. No, I

826
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,159
mean I actually found the collaboration between scientists to always

827
00:45:47,159 --> 00:45:50,159
be a very interesting topic of discussion, and I feel

828
00:45:50,159 --> 00:45:51,679
like something that gave a lot of color to it

829
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:57,079
is if you've seen the movie Oppenheimer, there is a

830
00:45:57,119 --> 00:46:00,719
scientists basically collaborating and what that actually looked like. And

831
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,840
I mean, obviously is it super accurate, but it does

832
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,559
add some flavor there of like not necessarily experts that

833
00:46:08,559 --> 00:46:10,840
are all experts in the same area, like there have

834
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,039
different specialties that are all collaborating together in some way.

835
00:46:14,159 --> 00:46:16,840
Now it does seem professional in nature, but there is

836
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:22,519
definitely an academia. You're passing back new ideas and if

837
00:46:22,519 --> 00:46:28,159
this is something that's interesting. There's actually a video from Veritassium,

838
00:46:28,199 --> 00:46:34,320
which is a YouTube channel that talks about math problem wars,

839
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:40,360
like wars between mathematicians where apparently in the eighteenth century

840
00:46:41,039 --> 00:46:44,239
and earlier, you could have your position revoked from an

841
00:46:44,599 --> 00:46:48,440
institution if another mathematician challenged you to a math duel

842
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:54,159
and gave you questions couldn't answer, then you would get

843
00:46:54,159 --> 00:46:54,679
their position.

844
00:46:56,039 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 1: That's the ultimate in nerdory right there.

845
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,599
Speaker 3: Sorry, you know, I really appreciate this stuff, but you

846
00:47:02,639 --> 00:47:03,880
know there's something interesting.

847
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 2: I mean literally, you know how you figured stuff out?

848
00:47:08,079 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 3: Was one intellectual in academia writing to another one totally

849
00:47:12,559 --> 00:47:16,159
unknown or their descendants or disciples. You know, hey, they

850
00:47:16,159 --> 00:47:18,280
were working on this problem. What does that look like?

851
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:23,320
Do you have any ideas? The same still holds true today,

852
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,960
and I feel like the Mastermind group really combines it together.

853
00:47:26,119 --> 00:47:29,199
Speaker 2: And I have this problem, like I don't.

854
00:47:29,039 --> 00:47:32,760
Speaker 3: Know event buses was sending messages in some sort of

855
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:34,599
network that things can be down.

856
00:47:34,639 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 2: How do I even do that correctly?

857
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:39,159
Speaker 3: How do I come up with the strategy of raft

858
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,920
or whatever Bitcoin uses for consensus.

859
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:45,599
Speaker 2: And go to town? Like that's not one person envisioning everything.

860
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,159
Speaker 1: I'm stuck on the whole math dual thing.

861
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 3: Fantastically, the episode was actually about discovering.

862
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 2: Third degree differential equations.

863
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:02,119
Speaker 3: So like first degree and second degree have close form solutions,

864
00:48:02,159 --> 00:48:07,800
but if you have a third degree differential, then how

865
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:09,559
do you how do you get the route the actual

866
00:48:09,599 --> 00:48:12,199
equation that comes out of it? And some people are like, oh,

867
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,719
that's impossible, there's no solution there, and others will say, well,

868
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:20,679
you know, you can actually solve it for some situations like, well,

869
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:23,159
if the equation looks like this, then we can come

870
00:48:23,199 --> 00:48:25,800
up with an answer, and so they start eliminating whole

871
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,440
sets of problems. And so at the time, the duel

872
00:48:28,559 --> 00:48:31,480
was like, I can figure out solutions to these problems,

873
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,599
but you can't. And then they always get surprised when

874
00:48:33,599 --> 00:48:36,440
the mathematician others had had to invent new calculus in

875
00:48:36,559 --> 00:48:39,599
order to solve those problems. And then the world you know,

876
00:48:39,639 --> 00:48:41,719
went further, and of course keeping it a secret of

877
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:45,320
how you solve these equations became a thing where I

878
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:47,719
don't think secrets went out today anymore.

879
00:48:48,639 --> 00:48:52,119
Speaker 4: No, But I'm just picturing like a bunch of women

880
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:55,840
like in a nineteen eighties era Michael Jackson concert, and

881
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,760
then the math nerds solves his differential equation in the

882
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,679
women then just start fainting and the bouncers are carrying

883
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:06,400
them out at this math duel pretty much figuring that's

884
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:07,440
how this went down.

885
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,280
Speaker 3: Like on stage, I honestly don't know what those specifics were.

886
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:12,400
I mean, I assume they were in their offices, you know,

887
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:13,719
because they weren't near each other.

888
00:49:14,159 --> 00:49:17,159
Speaker 4: No, this was a really out event. They were like

889
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,400
screaming fans. There were groupies, bouncers.

890
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 3: He wants to say, this is the eighteen eighteen, seventeen,

891
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:29,559
sixteenth century version of like hacker duels and you know,

892
00:49:29,679 --> 00:49:33,480
cracking software run by governments.

893
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:38,679
Speaker 4: This was like a Leonard skinnerd playing at bike week

894
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:40,440
type event.

895
00:49:45,039 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 1: Sorry I'm taking this off topic.

896
00:49:47,199 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 3: Yeah no, Actually there's something that we didn't really talk about,

897
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:53,440
and it's something that's been going on in my mind recently,

898
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,400
and that's the idea of sponsorship more than mentorship.

899
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,639
Speaker 2: And are you familiar with that?

900
00:50:00,119 --> 00:50:01,559
Speaker 1: So Nope, not at all.

901
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 3: So this is idea floating around that just having people

902
00:50:06,519 --> 00:50:08,360
give you feedback isn't necessarily enough.

903
00:50:08,599 --> 00:50:10,800
Speaker 2: You need people to sort of go and vouch for you.

904
00:50:11,039 --> 00:50:13,199
Speaker 3: And so within your company, if you want to get promoted,

905
00:50:13,599 --> 00:50:16,039
having someone to actually say, not just here's how you

906
00:50:16,039 --> 00:50:18,280
get promoted, but oh, you know, at the next promotion round,

907
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:19,119
I will speak.

908
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,559
Speaker 2: On your behalf. I'm actually helping you specifically.

909
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 3: And I don't think enough people take like are comfortable,

910
00:50:26,159 --> 00:50:29,840
you know, I think it's definitely cultural dependent, but comfortable

911
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,920
enough to take the opportunity to actually ask someone to

912
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:38,199
not just take the first steps, but recommend them or

913
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:39,840
really help them actually succeed.

914
00:50:40,559 --> 00:50:44,039
Speaker 4: Ah, that's interesting because I've had this idea for a

915
00:50:44,079 --> 00:50:50,000
couple of years now. Then my initial thought process behind

916
00:50:50,039 --> 00:50:54,000
it was the difficulty in finding qualified people to hire. Yeah,

917
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,000
and it goes back to when I was in the military,

918
00:50:57,119 --> 00:51:00,920
Like I was a nuclear engineer in the Navy, and

919
00:51:01,079 --> 00:51:05,239
to be qualified to operate the nuclear power plant. When

920
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:07,639
you got to your ship, that gave you this big

921
00:51:07,679 --> 00:51:10,440
book and it had all these lists of tasks that

922
00:51:10,519 --> 00:51:12,960
you had to know how to do. And so you

923
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:16,880
would run around the engine room asking people, hey, will

924
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:18,840
you watch me do this task, and you would do

925
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,000
the task, and if you did it right, you know,

926
00:51:21,159 --> 00:51:23,679
and they felt comfortable with you, they would sign that

927
00:51:24,639 --> 00:51:27,400
line in your book. And when everything was all signed,

928
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,280
you were qualified to operate the power plant.

929
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 1: And then.

930
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:34,760
Speaker 4: The reason that's tied to sponsorship is because if at

931
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:38,639
any point in the future you screwed up doing that task,

932
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,199
they would look at your book and see who signed

933
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:45,360
off on it, and that person is partially accountable for

934
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,719
the damage that you caused, or you know, the partially

935
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:55,440
owned that mistake. And I thought we could translate this

936
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:59,559
to the tech career, you know, just to take like

937
00:52:01,519 --> 00:52:05,320
JavaScript for an example. You know, I'm not going to

938
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:07,280
pick on JavaScript this time. I'm going to say, like,

939
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:09,239
you know, you've got a list of things that are

940
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:13,320
related to JavaScript, like writing an asincle weight function, you know,

941
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:18,800
writing a callback or whatever. And so I could go

942
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:25,079
to you and say, hey, will you check this asinkle

943
00:52:25,079 --> 00:52:26,840
weight function that I wrote, and you look it over,

944
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,840
I'm like, yeah, that's right, and then you sign off

945
00:52:30,039 --> 00:52:32,719
that I know how to do that task. And so

946
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:36,000
then whenever as an employer, when I'm looking for someone,

947
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,800
I just list the tasks that I need and I

948
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:46,599
find someone who has all those skills, and I can

949
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:51,920
validate or see like who who signed off on that,

950
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,239
and who signed off on it for that person above them.

951
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:59,639
And so there's this whole accountability thing where now it's

952
00:52:59,639 --> 00:53:02,519
not just me saying I know how to do a

953
00:53:02,639 --> 00:53:07,239
sinkle weight functions. I can prove that someone else has

954
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:09,760
said I know how to do a sinkle weight functions.

955
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 3: That's certainly the sort of thing that may be impossible

956
00:53:12,519 --> 00:53:14,679
to actually hold anyone accountable for.

957
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 4: No there I think it is because there's a there's

958
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:24,320
another component to it that's a feedback mechanism. So if

959
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:26,719
if you sign off that I know how to do

960
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:31,679
a sink a weight, someone else working with me who

961
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:36,559
has that skill looks at my asincle weight function and says,

962
00:53:36,599 --> 00:53:40,599
there's no way this guy knows what he's doing. So

963
00:53:40,639 --> 00:53:46,760
they dispute it and it gets revoked. But then that

964
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:49,920
also passes back up to the person who signed off

965
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:52,639
on it. So if you're just out there just blind

966
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:58,159
signing a bunch of people for skills, then it's gonna

967
00:53:58,199 --> 00:54:01,880
eventually come back to where you no longer had the

968
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,480
ability to sign off on a skill, because that's that's

969
00:54:04,519 --> 00:54:06,880
another component of it is if you're going to sign

970
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,000
off on a sink a weight for me, someone has

971
00:54:10,039 --> 00:54:12,480
to have signed off on a sink a weight for you.

972
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 2: I mean, I totally get it.

973
00:54:15,039 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 3: Working in any sort of military branch or public office,

974
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,400
it just you know, in the tech industry, there's a

975
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:26,079
short timeline for people working at the same job and whatnot,

976
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,920
and I don't think people are often held accountable as

977
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,719
much as they should be, or realistically beneficial for the

978
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,760
business as we want them to be, because there's a

979
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,280
lot of architectures that we fall into, you know, that

980
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:39,360
were there when we got there.

981
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:42,159
Speaker 2: And you're like, who signed off on this? You would

982
00:54:42,199 --> 00:54:43,320
be really curious to know, you.

983
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,800
Speaker 3: Know, maybe there's a product here, you know, trace your

984
00:54:46,159 --> 00:54:48,000
you know your your work that you've done.

985
00:54:48,599 --> 00:54:51,199
Speaker 2: Say that sort of a network. And I think LinkedIn

986
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:51,880
tried this with.

987
00:54:54,159 --> 00:54:59,159
Speaker 3: Giving thumbs up on people for recommendations for different technologies

988
00:54:59,159 --> 00:54:59,840
that they've got, but.

989
00:55:00,079 --> 00:55:04,679
Speaker 2: That's yeah, I didn't really get anywhere. I feel like, no.

990
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,119
Speaker 4: I think the reason that that failed is because anyone

991
00:55:07,159 --> 00:55:11,239
could any endorse anyone for anything. Like I had a

992
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,639
ton of recruiters that endorsed me for skills that I

993
00:55:14,679 --> 00:55:18,360
know for a fact they have no idea whether or

994
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:23,440
not I could do those those things, And so I

995
00:55:23,519 --> 00:55:26,239
think that was a failure there is because the endorsement

996
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:30,400
was meaningless because you didn't know, like who's endorse in

997
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:30,920
this person?

998
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:33,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they want that so that they can

999
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:35,880
sell your resume to a company and get paid, right

1000
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:39,440
so for sure? Yeah, yeah, I mean I know we

1001
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:41,280
try to do this to the micro level with pull

1002
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,760
requests and feedback through there, right, you know, at least

1003
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:46,440
the second person in the moment who supposedly knows that,

1004
00:55:46,599 --> 00:55:50,239
But that's very specific and doesn't really get at a

1005
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,199
cross of that you've learned the skill someone has taught you,

1006
00:55:53,199 --> 00:55:56,960
you understand it. There seems like an opportunity there in

1007
00:55:57,119 --> 00:56:01,800
ed tech going forward. It's I'd be really interesting if

1008
00:56:02,159 --> 00:56:04,199
we got that to become a thing.

1009
00:56:05,559 --> 00:56:06,320
Speaker 2: It's fun to merit.

1010
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a lot of it's a lot of work,

1011
00:56:10,599 --> 00:56:13,320
you know, like the it's a lot of work for

1012
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:19,880
the people, the senior people to mentor the junior people

1013
00:56:20,119 --> 00:56:22,119
who are coming in to take over their jobs. And

1014
00:56:22,159 --> 00:56:24,159
I think that's something we don't spend enough time and

1015
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:28,320
effort on. I think our industry is moving so fast

1016
00:56:28,519 --> 00:56:34,039
currently that we can sort of wave that off because

1017
00:56:34,039 --> 00:56:37,320
by the time the junior people are taking our positions,

1018
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:42,159
the job that I was doing is kind of obsolete anyway. Yeah,

1019
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:45,079
but I don't know that we can count on that

1020
00:56:45,119 --> 00:56:48,239
being true going forward.

1021
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, the future is unknown right right for sure.

1022
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:54,800
Speaker 2: So I feel like we talked.

1023
00:56:54,599 --> 00:56:59,599
Speaker 3: A lot about in and around Mastermind groups and your experiences.

1024
00:57:00,039 --> 00:57:02,000
I feel like you've got a wealth here that we

1025
00:57:02,079 --> 00:57:05,159
haven't really dove into though. I'm just curious if there's

1026
00:57:05,199 --> 00:57:11,559
anything specific that you wish you had shared, you know, unprompted.

1027
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:12,760
Speaker 1: Share it in my group.

1028
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 3: No, I mean you know what if people need to

1029
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,760
know about masterminds, Oh yeah, like today, you know, I

1030
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,280
guess they go and find one, But you know, maybe

1031
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:22,039
there's something else.

1032
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,599
Speaker 1: I think I think there is.

1033
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 4: You know, assuming that you're the type of person who

1034
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:34,519
has career goals and you have certain things that you

1035
00:57:34,639 --> 00:57:39,199
want to achieve in your career, regardless of what they are,

1036
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:43,039
you're going to need help to get there. If you

1037
00:57:43,079 --> 00:57:46,760
try to do it alone, it's going to take exponentially

1038
00:57:47,039 --> 00:57:52,800
longer to do it. So find those people or curate

1039
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:55,440
those people that you can talk with, because it's going

1040
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:58,599
to short circuit achieving all of your goals.

1041
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 1: I think that's the best way to say it.

1042
00:58:01,159 --> 00:58:05,239
Speaker 4: Like, if you're really right, yeah, if you're really serious

1043
00:58:05,239 --> 00:58:08,599
about accomplishing your goals, you know, stop fucking around and

1044
00:58:08,639 --> 00:58:09,880
go find some people to help you.

1045
00:58:10,599 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 3: I feel like, you know, there's a lot to be

1046
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:16,320
said there because concretely understanding what your goals are is

1047
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:18,280
something that a lot of people push off. But if

1048
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:21,960
you do understand what that is, then the next step

1049
00:58:22,039 --> 00:58:24,639
is fine, find the help and it's out there. Like people,

1050
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:28,079
people for sure and want to help. I know for

1051
00:58:28,159 --> 00:58:31,000
a long time, people messaging me on LinkedIn. I will

1052
00:58:31,079 --> 00:58:35,199
for sure respond, you know, join the discord server that

1053
00:58:35,239 --> 00:58:38,159
I'm in and ask questions and some will pop up.

1054
00:58:38,599 --> 00:58:39,039
Speaker 2: If our.

1055
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 3: Viewers, you know, have questions, then you know will answer them.

1056
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:47,599
There's a thing, right, you know, there are people out

1057
00:58:47,599 --> 00:58:51,039
there that definitely do this and don't expect anything in

1058
00:58:51,079 --> 00:58:53,079
return other than you know, maybe they will have questions

1059
00:58:53,119 --> 00:58:56,199
about how their thing is going and what support that

1060
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:59,920
you have in your personal sphere. You know, your experiences

1061
00:59:00,079 --> 00:59:02,360
that are unique to you and one day will become

1062
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:06,599
your superpower in a way that makes your experiences special.

1063
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. I guess the last thing would be who is

1064
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:11,519
it not for?

1065
00:59:13,199 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 4: Because that's always important to Like, if you're the type

1066
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:21,800
of person who just wants to work at your job

1067
00:59:23,239 --> 00:59:26,800
until you hit retirement age, you're going to invest money

1068
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:28,679
the whole time, So you just want to do your job,

1069
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:29,480
you don't care.

1070
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:30,079
Speaker 1: What it is.

1071
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, and when you're ready to retire, you're retiring. You're

1072
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,559
probably not going to get a lot out of a mastermind.

1073
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:42,559
And there's nothing wrong with that plan. I'm not trying

1074
00:59:42,599 --> 00:59:46,920
to say that that's a bad plan by any means.

1075
00:59:46,599 --> 00:59:51,119
It's perfectly viable for some people. But if that is

1076
00:59:51,159 --> 00:59:53,239
your plan. You probably won't get a lot out of

1077
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:54,119
a Mastermind group.

1078
00:59:54,719 --> 00:59:57,639
Speaker 2: If you think you're going there to somehow.

1079
00:59:58,719 --> 01:00:04,159
Speaker 3: Directly benefit yourself by taking rather than contributing, then it's

1080
01:00:04,199 --> 01:00:06,679
not going to work out. Like going to and advertise

1081
01:00:06,719 --> 01:00:09,880
your thing or you know, help me make mine successful,

1082
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,760
like is not necessarily the right mentality. It's does anyone

1083
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:15,239
have an idea about what I'm doing? You know, tell

1084
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:18,960
me why it's wrong. Is a much more direct path

1085
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:25,239
to success than trying to extract value, so specifically, I think.

1086
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:27,519
Speaker 4: For sure, Yeah, you're gonna give as much as you

1087
01:00:27,639 --> 01:00:33,159
take from the group. And the other thing is it

1088
01:00:33,199 --> 01:00:36,800
takes time, Like this is not a stack overflow thing

1089
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,199
where you post your question, get an answer, and your

1090
01:00:39,199 --> 01:00:40,320
goal away, Like it's going to.

1091
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 1: Take you years to.

1092
01:00:44,039 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 4: Start seeing the benefits of this, but also years to

1093
01:00:48,199 --> 01:00:51,719
build the personal relationships that are going to be required

1094
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:55,400
for you to have the deep conversations that actually have

1095
01:00:55,519 --> 01:00:57,960
significant impacts on your your goals.

1096
01:00:58,159 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 3: I think you said this, like some of those conversations

1097
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:03,360
it's gonna be really challenging for you. Yeah, it's not

1098
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:04,880
like you asked the question to get the answer, and

1099
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:07,119
maybe like why are you asking that question, you know, right,

1100
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:08,400
really diving into.

1101
01:01:08,199 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 1: That, Yeah for sure, for sure.

1102
01:01:11,599 --> 01:01:13,239
Speaker 4: And I think that's something that's missed in a lot

1103
01:01:13,239 --> 01:01:16,760
of superficial conversations we have, Like someone asked a question

1104
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:21,119
and you give an answer. But one of the objectives

1105
01:01:21,159 --> 01:01:25,960
of being in the group is to understand what was

1106
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:29,920
the event that triggered this question? And based on that,

1107
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:31,440
are you even asking the right question?

1108
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 2: Yeah? For sure.

1109
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 3: And if you're not an expert in that area, then

1110
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:37,199
you don't necessarily know whether you're asking the right question

1111
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:40,000
or not. So having a group of other people to

1112
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:45,039
point that out for you is worth an incredibly.

1113
01:01:44,599 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 1: Large amount for sure. All right.

1114
01:01:49,239 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 4: And just some picks, yeah, definitely, all right, bringing on,

1115
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:56,719
you were touting your pick before we even started recording,

1116
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:58,480
So I've been waiting for an hour here.

1117
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:01,119
Speaker 3: I mentioned this a long time, so you may you may.

1118
01:02:01,199 --> 01:02:03,360
You may know this one, but I'm gonna bring it

1119
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:07,199
up again. It's a book called The Formula by Bara Bassi.

1120
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:12,119
It's the science of success. So where does success play

1121
01:02:12,159 --> 01:02:16,400
in and how do you get there? And it's a

1122
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:19,039
a huge number of case studies that have been evaluated

1123
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:23,000
and through scientific study, and we know things like your

1124
01:02:23,079 --> 01:02:25,840
network is super important. So I brought that up that

1125
01:02:27,199 --> 01:02:30,360
you may go to some conferences or get some jobs

1126
01:02:30,559 --> 01:02:32,480
in some circle, and if you want to higher paying

1127
01:02:32,559 --> 01:02:35,320
job that's completely different, well you need to somehow get there.

1128
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:37,519
So knowing someone in your network to be able to

1129
01:02:37,559 --> 01:02:42,599
help you make that jump is required. Almost statistically speaking,

1130
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,960
we don't make that migration ourselves. And it goes into

1131
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:49,239
a lot of different areas like the top song that

1132
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:51,360
shows up on the charts, why is it number one?

1133
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:54,079
What keeps it in the number one spot? Why is

1134
01:02:54,119 --> 01:02:55,320
the one at the bottom of the chart at the

1135
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:57,960
bottom of the chart, So a lot of different areas.

1136
01:02:58,039 --> 01:03:01,960
And it really talks about human psychology, how our network matters,

1137
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:03,559
and I really I think is.

1138
01:03:03,559 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 2: Really relevant to the mastermind group concept.

1139
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, I would add to that one. Napoleon Hill,

1140
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:15,320
We mentioned it in the episode here. Napoleon Hills Think

1141
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:19,800
and Grow Rich definitely a good read for understanding how

1142
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:24,800
this process works and some case studies of how it

1143
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:29,480
has impacted other people. Big disclaimer though, this was written

1144
01:03:29,519 --> 01:03:33,599
in the early nineteen hundreds, and he references some scientific

1145
01:03:33,679 --> 01:03:39,119
facts that we now know are not true. So just

1146
01:03:39,119 --> 01:03:42,159
just gloss over that and say Okay, well, that's that's

1147
01:03:42,159 --> 01:03:45,159
what they knew at the time, and we've since learned differently.

1148
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:51,400
But the process is still true because even though that

1149
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:55,719
specific example, you know, even though their understanding of the

1150
01:03:55,800 --> 01:04:00,679
laws of physics was wrong, using some of those same

1151
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:04,960
principles in the book was led to the formation of

1152
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:10,079
the groups that understood how the laws of physics actually

1153
01:04:10,119 --> 01:04:11,679
are as we understand today.

1154
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:15,760
Speaker 3: So when you say that, I think of this show

1155
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:20,000
called QI. It's quite interesting as a British comedy fact show,

1156
01:04:20,239 --> 01:04:25,960
and every year they have new facts that are relevant

1157
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:30,000
to some letters, some topic, and by like the ten season,

1158
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:32,400
they had done a study about how true the facts

1159
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:35,480
were at the time that they were released, and then

1160
01:04:35,719 --> 01:04:38,760
every year later, so the facts from ten seasons ago

1161
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:43,440
were decreasing in truthfulness over time, and it was like

1162
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:46,079
exponential curve. So the further away from the time we

1163
01:04:46,119 --> 01:04:48,639
said the fact, the more wrong it was likely to be,

1164
01:04:49,679 --> 01:04:51,199
which I found was super interesting.

1165
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:53,039
Speaker 2: So is that book your pick?

1166
01:04:53,079 --> 01:04:56,280
Speaker 1: Will No, Actually that was just a on the fly thing.

1167
01:04:56,599 --> 01:05:01,159
Speaker 4: My actual pick for this week is an application, an

1168
01:05:01,159 --> 01:05:04,079
app called on X. I've been using it to go

1169
01:05:04,159 --> 01:05:09,599
out into the mountains and track locations and mark waypoints

1170
01:05:09,599 --> 01:05:14,840
and stuff, and the user interface on this app should

1171
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:18,400
really just be like a reference for everyone who builds

1172
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:21,880
apps on mobile, because you know, pulling up a map

1173
01:05:22,079 --> 01:05:29,760
and accessing coordinates and tracking your location saving that data,

1174
01:05:30,639 --> 01:05:33,639
and then you can go back to their website and

1175
01:05:33,719 --> 01:05:37,079
log in and all your waypoints and stuff are right there.

1176
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:42,119
Just the app is so intuitive and easy to use

1177
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:47,000
that I just thought it was great and worthy of

1178
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:47,599
a call out.

1179
01:05:47,599 --> 01:05:53,199
Speaker 3: Here is that a Blackstone? So like Oscar November Yankee

1180
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:55,480
X ray or spelled.

1181
01:05:56,800 --> 01:06:01,679
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, it's a O n X. Okay, yeah,

1182
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:05,320
it's a.

1183
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 4: ONX and they have hunt and I think the other

1184
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:11,800
mode is like ATV or something.

1185
01:06:11,519 --> 01:06:15,599
Speaker 1: Like that for for that. But yeah, just super cool.

1186
01:06:15,639 --> 01:06:20,719
Speaker 4: If you're ever outdoors, you can download the offline version

1187
01:06:21,159 --> 01:06:24,079
so that whenever you're deep in the mountains or wilderness

1188
01:06:24,199 --> 01:06:27,360
or whatever and you don't have self service, it uses

1189
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:31,519
satellite GPS to continuously track your location on the map

1190
01:06:31,599 --> 01:06:35,760
so you're not actually getting lost. But it was just

1191
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:37,000
such a cool app I had to.

1192
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:37,440
Speaker 1: Share it here.

1193
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:40,639
Speaker 2: It sounds like something I should actually have and I don't.

1194
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:43,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, if you ever go hiking or if you're ever

1195
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:50,239
just out somewhere where you need to navigate, I highly

1196
01:06:50,239 --> 01:06:50,840
recommend it.

1197
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:53,039
Speaker 3: Well, I'm in Switzerland, so I do find myself on

1198
01:06:53,079 --> 01:06:55,239
the mountain right frequently.

1199
01:06:55,400 --> 01:07:01,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, cool, All right, well listen For all of

1200
01:07:01,599 --> 01:07:04,920
the listeners out there, thanks for staying tuned this long.

1201
01:07:05,039 --> 01:07:11,440
Speaker 1: I hope that you found this helpful. If you have questions, comments, concerns,

1202
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:16,760
you can find either Warren or myself on LinkedIn is

1203
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:19,559
probably the easiest way. I'm on Twitter every once in

1204
01:07:19,599 --> 01:07:21,880
a while, or sorry X every once in a while.

1205
01:07:22,719 --> 01:07:26,679
Speaker 4: We have the discord channel. I think there's a public

1206
01:07:26,719 --> 01:07:32,039
form on the discord channel. Or if you Google search

1207
01:07:32,079 --> 01:07:33,639
for more than like two or three minutes, you're probably

1208
01:07:33,639 --> 01:07:35,119
gonna come up with my email address.

1209
01:07:35,159 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 1: You can email me too, so yeah, hit us up.

1210
01:07:42,639 --> 01:07:45,199
Speaker 4: Let us know your thoughts on this, let us know

1211
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:48,920
questions you had about this, If you have future topics

1212
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:52,360
you would like to see, bring those up as well,

1213
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:54,639
or if there's something you want to talk about, we'd

1214
01:07:54,679 --> 01:07:56,079
love to have you as a guest on a show,

1215
01:07:57,159 --> 01:08:00,880
because that's honestly, this is this is my tool for

1216
01:08:01,119 --> 01:08:04,400
navigating the tech space and figuring out what's relevant, what's current,

1217
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:05,239
what's changing.

1218
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:06,679
Speaker 1: So if you're in.

1219
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 4: If you're involved in something, I'd love to have you

1220
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:15,400
on the show to hear about it. So yeah, Warren,

1221
01:08:15,719 --> 01:08:19,680
thanks as always for being here, and we'll see everyone

1222
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:20,520
else next week.

1223
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:24,960
Speaker 1: H