WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.440 --> 00:00:02.080
<v Speaker 1>Is it really so bad for Grandma?

2
00:00:02.120 --> 00:00:02.759
<v Speaker 2>If she dies?

3
00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:07.320
<v Speaker 1>Won't you spend eternity in the fields of bliss? Oh yeah,

4
00:00:07.559 --> 00:00:10.400
<v Speaker 1>we're going to the fields of bliss. But the days

5
00:00:10.439 --> 00:00:13.000
<v Speaker 1>they're past in frolic most joyousness.

6
00:00:13.240 --> 00:00:14.839
<v Speaker 2>Just frolicking, that's it.

7
00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:19.480
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes you wave ribbons through the air, but mainly frolicking.

8
00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:20.640
<v Speaker 1>Doesn't that get old?

9
00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:40.439
<v Speaker 3>Welcome to Amusing Jews, where we celebrate Jewish contributors and

10
00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:44.479
<v Speaker 3>contributions to American popular culture. I'm Jonathan Friedman.

11
00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:47.119
<v Speaker 1>And I'm Joey Agelfield producer.

12
00:00:46.679 --> 00:00:50.719
<v Speaker 3>Engineer Mike Tomren is working somewhere behind the scenes. Amusing

13
00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:54.960
<v Speaker 3>Jews is a project of a Dotchavorine Congregation for Humanistic Judaism,

14
00:00:55.159 --> 00:01:00.439
<v Speaker 3>the Jewish Museum of the American West, and Atheist United Studios. Joey,

15
00:01:01.079 --> 00:01:03.719
<v Speaker 3>What if we knew for certain that an afterlife exists

16
00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:06.920
<v Speaker 3>but only for the genetic few? A new novel by

17
00:01:06.959 --> 00:01:11.719
<v Speaker 3>Today's Guest explores this question and its dystopian implications.

18
00:01:12.200 --> 00:01:15.760
<v Speaker 1>We're delighted to talk with Don Scheckter, an author, filmmaker,

19
00:01:15.879 --> 00:01:19.680
<v Speaker 1>and film and media studies professor at TUTS University. His

20
00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:24.519
<v Speaker 1>debut novel is Ascendants. Don. Welcome to amusing Jews.

21
00:01:24.680 --> 00:01:26.359
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for having me, Happy to be here.

22
00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:30.040
<v Speaker 1>You're a lifelong fan of speculative fiction. What appeals to

23
00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:33.879
<v Speaker 1>you about the genre? Part of it is just cultural.

24
00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:36.040
<v Speaker 2>With my family in that I grew up and my

25
00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:38.439
<v Speaker 2>father and my older brother were watching Star Trek one

26
00:01:38.480 --> 00:01:40.560
<v Speaker 2>day for a while and I was like, this is

27
00:01:40.840 --> 00:01:42.879
<v Speaker 2>slow and boring. I don't get it. Can we watch

28
00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:45.359
<v Speaker 2>something else? And then somehow it's stuck. And I do

29
00:01:45.439 --> 00:01:47.560
<v Speaker 2>that now with my son as well. Number One, it

30
00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:52.079
<v Speaker 2>allows us to tell stories about what we're thinking about

31
00:01:52.159 --> 00:01:53.959
<v Speaker 2>right now. Right, So when you look at sci fi

32
00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:56.879
<v Speaker 2>throughout history of sci fi, which isn't that long, right,

33
00:01:56.920 --> 00:01:58.920
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and thirty years or so, you know, you're

34
00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:01.319
<v Speaker 2>able to look at the stories of sci fi that

35
00:02:01.319 --> 00:02:03.359
<v Speaker 2>were written at the time and see it as a

36
00:02:03.439 --> 00:02:07.519
<v Speaker 2>reflection of what people were doing then, or like let's

37
00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:09.400
<v Speaker 2>go with the Star Trek example, like in the sixties,

38
00:02:09.439 --> 00:02:13.759
<v Speaker 2>all about the upheaval and societal issues with racism and

39
00:02:14.759 --> 00:02:18.319
<v Speaker 2>cultural and identity, and allowed you to tell stories in

40
00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:21.879
<v Speaker 2>a way that wasn't potentially wasn't confrontational to people who

41
00:02:21.919 --> 00:02:25.000
<v Speaker 2>weren't ready to have those conversations. So you're able to say, oh,

42
00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:27.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's the classic black on white one side,

43
00:02:27.560 --> 00:02:29.400
<v Speaker 2>white on the other side, and white on one side

44
00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:32.120
<v Speaker 2>and black, you know that thing. But what it also

45
00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:35.400
<v Speaker 2>does is it allows society and this is something I've

46
00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:37.639
<v Speaker 2>been researching and looking at the last few years. It

47
00:02:37.680 --> 00:02:43.520
<v Speaker 2>allows society to rehearse a potential future. So it's so

48
00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:46.240
<v Speaker 2>it's not just about what's happening right now in our society,

49
00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:48.000
<v Speaker 2>or if you look at sci fi from twenty years ago,

50
00:02:48.599 --> 00:02:53.439
<v Speaker 2>it's about we're where are hidden anxieties and what's coming

51
00:02:53.719 --> 00:02:55.400
<v Speaker 2>and allows us to say, Okay, if this thing that's

52
00:02:55.400 --> 00:02:58.639
<v Speaker 2>coming in our future came today, how would we all

53
00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:01.800
<v Speaker 2>act and behave right? Like you know, And I've been

54
00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:03.840
<v Speaker 2>charting this sort of This is gonna be a long story, guys,

55
00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:06.719
<v Speaker 2>but I've been charting this sort of history a research

56
00:03:06.759 --> 00:03:09.159
<v Speaker 2>project where even going back to like post war so

57
00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:11.919
<v Speaker 2>post World War two era, like the fifties were all

58
00:03:11.960 --> 00:03:16.039
<v Speaker 2>about the atomic age, surviving and living in the atomic

59
00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:18.960
<v Speaker 2>age and about so it was the fear of that

60
00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:21.240
<v Speaker 2>the atomic bomb coming, and it was the fear of

61
00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:25.719
<v Speaker 2>in the US of like outside ideology communism coming in

62
00:03:26.039 --> 00:03:29.000
<v Speaker 2>and disseminating and you know, converting our youth like Invasion

63
00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:31.319
<v Speaker 2>of the Body Snatchers or something like that. Then in

64
00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:33.919
<v Speaker 2>the sixties and seventies it moved on to like stories

65
00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:37.960
<v Speaker 2>about ecological disasters of the future, when they sort of

66
00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:42.000
<v Speaker 2>planet Earth as a whole became, you know, the beginning

67
00:03:42.039 --> 00:03:45.319
<v Speaker 2>of like climate change issues, and also about racism and immigration.

68
00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:47.240
<v Speaker 2>Like I grew up, I was born in seventy nine.

69
00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:50.840
<v Speaker 2>I grew up with like Alien Nation and like Soling Green,

70
00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:55.400
<v Speaker 2>and these were things about again an environment and racism.

71
00:03:55.400 --> 00:03:57.439
<v Speaker 2>Planet of the Apes is all about racism. And then

72
00:03:57.520 --> 00:04:00.159
<v Speaker 2>what I love is like one of the inspirations for

73
00:04:00.199 --> 00:04:03.280
<v Speaker 2>my book of Sentence was actually a movie called Strange Days.

74
00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:05.879
<v Speaker 2>It's all about what happens at the turn of the century,

75
00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:10.599
<v Speaker 2>and it's about memory and who controls technology, and it

76
00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:13.240
<v Speaker 2>was I remember, like I even had a job where

77
00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:15.439
<v Speaker 2>I was compliance for Y two K for a company.

78
00:04:15.879 --> 00:04:17.639
<v Speaker 2>We thought planes were going to fall out of the sky.

79
00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:19.839
<v Speaker 2>So for like not a decade, but almost a decade,

80
00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:22.000
<v Speaker 2>everyone's like, oh my god, the computers are going to collapse.

81
00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:25.600
<v Speaker 2>The infrastructure that we don't quite understand is going to die, right,

82
00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:28.040
<v Speaker 2>So then all the stories were kind of about conspiracies

83
00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:31.439
<v Speaker 2>of infrastructure and y two K fears we survived that

84
00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:36.639
<v Speaker 2>two thousand came right, and everyone's like, oh, we survived,

85
00:04:36.680 --> 00:04:39.879
<v Speaker 2>this apocalypse had never happened. Great, So let's go back

86
00:04:39.879 --> 00:04:41.560
<v Speaker 2>and have a little bit of nostalgia. Let's look back

87
00:04:41.560 --> 00:04:43.560
<v Speaker 2>at how we got to the future. So a show

88
00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:46.560
<v Speaker 2>like Star Trek Enterprise was developed, which ended up failing

89
00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:48.680
<v Speaker 2>for a lot of reasons. But one of the reasons

90
00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:50.959
<v Speaker 2>is it came out I believe right after don't quote

91
00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:53.600
<v Speaker 2>me on this, right after September eleventh. We weren't in

92
00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:57.360
<v Speaker 2>the mood as an American society for nostalgia. Right What

93
00:04:57.360 --> 00:04:59.600
<v Speaker 2>we were in the mood for was, oh, my god,

94
00:04:59.639 --> 00:05:01.759
<v Speaker 2>we are not about to have the apocalypse. We need

95
00:05:01.800 --> 00:05:04.279
<v Speaker 2>to survive in the apocalypse. So then you had stories

96
00:05:04.279 --> 00:05:05.839
<v Speaker 2>and it's not very easy for me to get into

97
00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:08.199
<v Speaker 2>film and TV more than books, which is ironic, but

98
00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:11.800
<v Speaker 2>like Battlestar Galactica and Lost and all these these stories

99
00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:15.839
<v Speaker 2>about or even zombie stories walking dead, Like society has collapsed.

100
00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:18.240
<v Speaker 2>What does it mean for us as society to hold

101
00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:21.240
<v Speaker 2>onto institutions. Then we ended up in an era where

102
00:05:22.439 --> 00:05:29.319
<v Speaker 2>storytellers were kind of moving towards religion and spirituality to

103
00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:33.079
<v Speaker 2>explain the sci fi. Part of sci fi, okay, like

104
00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:35.759
<v Speaker 2>Lost Or it wasn't like the or any of the

105
00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:38.759
<v Speaker 2>mysteries that are in sci fi stories. They didn't have

106
00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:40.360
<v Speaker 2>sci fi endings. And this is when I started to

107
00:05:40.360 --> 00:05:44.839
<v Speaker 2>think about my book. Ascendance is like the authors of

108
00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:47.040
<v Speaker 2>these stories would just say, oh, it was actually a

109
00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:49.800
<v Speaker 2>religious thing, a god thing, an angel thing, and I'm like,

110
00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:52.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't know that I like that. You know, I'm

111
00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:56.560
<v Speaker 2>culturally Jewish, you know, but I'm not. You know, I

112
00:05:56.560 --> 00:05:57.800
<v Speaker 2>grew up at a time, you know, I grew up

113
00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:00.279
<v Speaker 2>in New York City. I was very kind to the

114
00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:02.959
<v Speaker 2>city post nine to eleven, and like I was, and

115
00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:07.680
<v Speaker 2>I was in my early twenties, and you know, the

116
00:06:07.720 --> 00:06:10.519
<v Speaker 2>sort of extreme ideologies that were really apparent at that time,

117
00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:12.600
<v Speaker 2>or at least that like I think American society was

118
00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:16.360
<v Speaker 2>asleep about until then, was sort of jarring for young

119
00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:19.279
<v Speaker 2>twenty year old. And then we get to sort of

120
00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:24.000
<v Speaker 2>the age of like AI and like robots coming right

121
00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:29.600
<v Speaker 2>which takes us to today where we are the rate

122
00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:33.240
<v Speaker 2>of technological innovation, especially when AI right now is so

123
00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:37.360
<v Speaker 2>vast and so it just hitting us every few weeks

124
00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:40.199
<v Speaker 2>something crazy is happening, not over the course of ten

125
00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:42.639
<v Speaker 2>years that we don't know what the stories are going

126
00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:45.199
<v Speaker 2>to be that reflect our current time, Like our stories

127
00:06:45.240 --> 00:06:47.639
<v Speaker 2>right now can't keep up with the change of technology.

128
00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:50.120
<v Speaker 2>So long winded, that's kind of like like an overview

129
00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:51.720
<v Speaker 2>of what I'm looking at and what I'm currently studying

130
00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:54.879
<v Speaker 2>and thinking about. But that's the reason I love sci fi,

131
00:06:54.920 --> 00:06:57.800
<v Speaker 2>which was the original question, is because it allows us

132
00:06:57.800 --> 00:07:01.519
<v Speaker 2>to tell stories about, you know, who we are as

133
00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:04.160
<v Speaker 2>a society. It allows you to tell stories about people

134
00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:10.199
<v Speaker 2>in extraordinary situations and envision what you know, me as

135
00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:14.079
<v Speaker 2>a viewer, as a reader would do in those almost

136
00:07:14.199 --> 00:07:17.879
<v Speaker 2>seemingly impossible situations that are possibly going to happen to

137
00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:20.199
<v Speaker 2>someone one day, maybe in the near future.

138
00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:23.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think what you're saying too is at the

139
00:07:23.399 --> 00:07:26.959
<v Speaker 3>core of any good story in general, and certainly sci

140
00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:31.000
<v Speaker 3>fi is the human element. So even if let's say,

141
00:07:31.480 --> 00:07:34.759
<v Speaker 3>you know, classic like Twilight Zone is dealing with the

142
00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:40.040
<v Speaker 3>Cold War kind of hysteria and xenophobia, those stories are

143
00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:42.879
<v Speaker 3>still very relevant because now we're in another age of

144
00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:48.439
<v Speaker 3>xenophobia and the same human emotions and psychology are in play.

145
00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:51.560
<v Speaker 3>And one of my favorite examples of that is actually

146
00:07:51.879 --> 00:07:55.959
<v Speaker 3>Gray Bradbery's the Martian Chronicles because he didn't even try

147
00:07:56.199 --> 00:08:00.680
<v Speaker 3>to make anything scientifically reasonable people farming on Mars and

148
00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:03.079
<v Speaker 3>doing all kinds of earth things. I think he called

149
00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:06.399
<v Speaker 3>it like Iowa on Mars or something like that. But

150
00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:09.800
<v Speaker 3>they're so relatable as human stories, and you know, what

151
00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:12.720
<v Speaker 3>are humans going to do in these kind of situations

152
00:08:12.759 --> 00:08:15.199
<v Speaker 3>and how do people react to each other and behave

153
00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:19.879
<v Speaker 3>in society, so that these stories can persist even beyond

154
00:08:19.959 --> 00:08:24.399
<v Speaker 3>kind of the ridiculous premise that sometimes can appear, right,

155
00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:25.000
<v Speaker 3>And that.

156
00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:26.759
<v Speaker 2>Was something that was important to me, is that when

157
00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:29.240
<v Speaker 2>I was developing the story and the mythology with sentence,

158
00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:31.720
<v Speaker 2>people have this misconception that sci fi is all about

159
00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:35.200
<v Speaker 2>some cool spaceship or weird technology like that was like

160
00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:38.039
<v Speaker 2>the original germ of like of like, okay, there's this.

161
00:08:38.840 --> 00:08:40.840
<v Speaker 2>I had an idea of a scene in my head

162
00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:42.879
<v Speaker 2>and it was pretty disturbing and like, well what does

163
00:08:42.919 --> 00:08:44.519
<v Speaker 2>that mean? And then it took me two years to

164
00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:48.000
<v Speaker 2>develop sort of the technology and what the world look like.

165
00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:50.919
<v Speaker 2>But that's not a story. Whether it's sci fi or

166
00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:56.320
<v Speaker 2>romance or whatever. What do they do now? Not pickleball, romance, hockey, whatever, romance,

167
00:08:56.440 --> 00:08:59.720
<v Speaker 2>whatever it needs to be about you know, people, about

168
00:08:59.759 --> 00:09:03.519
<v Speaker 2>the relationships from person to person or person to institution, whatever,

169
00:09:03.559 --> 00:09:06.320
<v Speaker 2>But it's about the people. So you know, for me,

170
00:09:06.360 --> 00:09:08.639
<v Speaker 2>it's like, once I set up the sci fi elements,

171
00:09:08.759 --> 00:09:10.879
<v Speaker 2>I really had to focus on, well, what's the actual story.

172
00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:13.399
<v Speaker 2>And then that's why, like the heart of Ascendance is,

173
00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:16.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's it takes you through different povs, different

174
00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:19.720
<v Speaker 2>characters who sort of adventures, all kind of come together

175
00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:22.639
<v Speaker 2>towards the end of the book, not the end, and

176
00:09:22.720 --> 00:09:25.600
<v Speaker 2>propels them, propels the story forward. But it was important

177
00:09:25.639 --> 00:09:26.840
<v Speaker 2>to me to have a family. So I've got like

178
00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:29.600
<v Speaker 2>this fractured family. I've got a mom, she's a single

179
00:09:29.639 --> 00:09:33.200
<v Speaker 2>mom doctor who's trying to sort of balance the world

180
00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:36.759
<v Speaker 2>of ascendants and biomasses. And I've got her rebellious daughter

181
00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:39.159
<v Speaker 2>who ends up being a major character, and a young

182
00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:41.240
<v Speaker 2>and a young and her young daughter who becomes the

183
00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:44.320
<v Speaker 2>target of the institution in the book, And it was

184
00:09:44.360 --> 00:09:49.960
<v Speaker 2>about their trauma and their ability to get along or

185
00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:52.320
<v Speaker 2>not get along with both the world around them. That

186
00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:55.720
<v Speaker 2>seems crazy to us as readers and each other. And

187
00:09:55.720 --> 00:09:57.159
<v Speaker 2>that's one of the reasons. You know, they're Jewish in

188
00:09:57.200 --> 00:10:00.200
<v Speaker 2>the book. You know that was important to me at

189
00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:02.240
<v Speaker 2>the time of their genesis is to give them that

190
00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:05.720
<v Speaker 2>kind of identity. There's Muslims in the book and Christians

191
00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:10.279
<v Speaker 2>and non affiliated because in the world of the book,

192
00:10:10.279 --> 00:10:12.320
<v Speaker 2>there's not a lot of religion. And I really wanted

193
00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:14.679
<v Speaker 2>to have a book and a story that commented on

194
00:10:14.759 --> 00:10:18.919
<v Speaker 2>religion by making it about science, so that it wouldn't

195
00:10:18.919 --> 00:10:22.279
<v Speaker 2>be offensive to people who hold religion. Dear it was

196
00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:24.240
<v Speaker 2>a way for them to think about that without being

197
00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:25.559
<v Speaker 2>you know, attacked for it.

198
00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:28.840
<v Speaker 1>Enjoining the show, click like and subscribe.

199
00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:31.519
<v Speaker 3>What can you tell us about your novel's division of

200
00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:34.360
<v Speaker 3>society into ascendance and biomasses.

201
00:10:34.919 --> 00:10:37.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so the general conception is that, you know, in

202
00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:39.320
<v Speaker 2>this in this world, it's the near future, so it's

203
00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:43.840
<v Speaker 2>not long from now. You know, a very successful scientist

204
00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:46.000
<v Speaker 2>through and you discovered this through the book, through a

205
00:10:46.039 --> 00:10:52.000
<v Speaker 2>series of discoveries of technological innovations, seemingly discovers that first

206
00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:54.039
<v Speaker 2>that everyone can ascend. And what does this end mean

207
00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:57.159
<v Speaker 2>is that the institute, this powerful organization, and I think

208
00:10:57.200 --> 00:11:01.000
<v Speaker 2>we're all used to a handful of powerful technology organizations

209
00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:04.639
<v Speaker 2>owning our futures in a way is able to quote

210
00:11:04.840 --> 00:11:08.799
<v Speaker 2>prove the afterlife there's technology, you know how right now

211
00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:11.679
<v Speaker 2>we're talking about people implanting themselves with chips, you know,

212
00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:16.720
<v Speaker 2>and things like that to communicate with their devices. You know,

213
00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:19.919
<v Speaker 2>it starts with people on a global scale putting what's

214
00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:22.799
<v Speaker 2>called packed thoughts in their system, but basically receivers and

215
00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:26.639
<v Speaker 2>transmitters between people and technology all around. Well, think about

216
00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:28.879
<v Speaker 2>you're told there's an afterlife, You're told you're going to

217
00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:31.159
<v Speaker 2>go to heaven, but you can't prove it, you don't know,

218
00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:33.279
<v Speaker 2>you just have to believe it. Well, now I can

219
00:11:33.320 --> 00:11:35.480
<v Speaker 2>go into what's called a viewing room with other people.

220
00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:39.639
<v Speaker 2>I can see someone a volunteer who's about to die,

221
00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:43.480
<v Speaker 2>about to be euthanized essentially, and the technology lets me

222
00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:47.799
<v Speaker 2>experience their experience beyond their corporeal their body right and

223
00:11:47.879 --> 00:11:51.240
<v Speaker 2>see get a glimpse of what happens. The technology allows

224
00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:53.960
<v Speaker 2>you to see it, to feel it, to experience it

225
00:11:54.039 --> 00:11:56.840
<v Speaker 2>so viscerally that you, as a person cannot deny it.

226
00:11:57.320 --> 00:11:59.919
<v Speaker 2>So the question is what happens society when you when

227
00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:04.919
<v Speaker 2>everyone can go and physically be somewhere and experience what

228
00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:07.840
<v Speaker 2>another person experiences when they die and a little bit after,

229
00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:10.360
<v Speaker 2>what does that do to society? So that's part one.

230
00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:17.159
<v Speaker 2>Part two is well, now because of a certain mythological

231
00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:19.919
<v Speaker 2>mythology is not the right word, but certain historical events

232
00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:22.840
<v Speaker 2>that happen, it's then announced that we made a mistake.

233
00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:25.919
<v Speaker 2>And only a small percentage of the population. So think

234
00:12:25.919 --> 00:12:29.279
<v Speaker 2>about the existential dread of people to be that close

235
00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:33.960
<v Speaker 2>to like certainty of an afterlife and the comfort of

236
00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:36.639
<v Speaker 2>that for everyone. Now the dread of no only a

237
00:12:36.679 --> 00:12:40.360
<v Speaker 2>small percentage can ascend. And so what do the ones

238
00:12:40.360 --> 00:12:43.759
<v Speaker 2>who were quote chosen, the ones who can genetically ascend?

239
00:12:44.080 --> 00:12:46.279
<v Speaker 2>How do they treat the people who can't? And how

240
00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:48.360
<v Speaker 2>do the people can't? What do they do? You know?

241
00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:50.080
<v Speaker 2>And in the book explores more things like if you're

242
00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:52.480
<v Speaker 2>an ascendant in any of those two time periods, like

243
00:12:53.039 --> 00:12:55.440
<v Speaker 2>does that make you happy? Does that make you say,

244
00:12:55.440 --> 00:12:57.799
<v Speaker 2>you know what, I'm having a bad time with work

245
00:12:58.039 --> 00:13:00.080
<v Speaker 2>or love? Do I just want to kill myself? And

246
00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:03.279
<v Speaker 2>sorry for the Christmas? And ascend? What does it do

247
00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:05.559
<v Speaker 2>with children? I mean, so there's a lot there sort

248
00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:09.399
<v Speaker 2>of think about how you and how society would react

249
00:13:09.399 --> 00:13:11.799
<v Speaker 2>to something that strong kind of smacking the face, and

250
00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:14.240
<v Speaker 2>what would happen to religious organizations as well, and a.

251
00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:17.159
<v Speaker 3>Certain kind of survivor's guilt, right knowing that you are

252
00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:17.919
<v Speaker 3>the chosen.

253
00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:21.080
<v Speaker 2>It could be. But the question is, would people really

254
00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:23.240
<v Speaker 2>do that or would they say, you know, and I

255
00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:26.480
<v Speaker 2>realized we're amusing Jews here and we're talking about the chosen,

256
00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:30.120
<v Speaker 2>so I don't mean in the Jewish context, but you know,

257
00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:32.720
<v Speaker 2>would people really have that guilt or would they be like, no,

258
00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:35.039
<v Speaker 2>I'm special, I was born this way, which I think

259
00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:37.960
<v Speaker 2>a lot of not everyone, but I think a lot

260
00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:40.840
<v Speaker 2>of people believe that regardless of their religion, and it's

261
00:13:40.840 --> 00:13:42.519
<v Speaker 2>solely because of the religion they were brought up in,

262
00:13:42.519 --> 00:13:44.879
<v Speaker 2>and they're like, no, no, I'm special. My people are special,

263
00:13:44.960 --> 00:13:45.279
<v Speaker 2>You're not.

264
00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:47.679
<v Speaker 1>So I don't know that it would change the novel

265
00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:50.720
<v Speaker 1>does center around a Jewish family? Is there something personal

266
00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:51.200
<v Speaker 1>about that?

267
00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:53.919
<v Speaker 2>There is some of my family history that's kind of

268
00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:56.679
<v Speaker 2>embedded in the story of a sentence. You know, we

269
00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:59.320
<v Speaker 2>talked about. You know, there's a rabbi who's the father

270
00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:02.679
<v Speaker 2>of Rebecca who starts, you know, early on in the book,

271
00:14:02.919 --> 00:14:05.759
<v Speaker 2>and there's an incident that happens to him when he

272
00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:09.759
<v Speaker 2>comes into encounter with the Jacob's Institute that mirrors my

273
00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:12.440
<v Speaker 2>own family's history, where my great great my great great

274
00:14:12.519 --> 00:14:18.039
<v Speaker 2>grandfather in Vienna was thrown downstairs by the Nazis. And

275
00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:22.919
<v Speaker 2>my grandfather was actually a philosophy student in Vienna, and

276
00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:25.799
<v Speaker 2>he had an amazing story that I think some of

277
00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:28.799
<v Speaker 2>the themes in his life made into this book, and

278
00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:30.799
<v Speaker 2>I'd love to make that the movie one day. But

279
00:14:30.919 --> 00:14:33.600
<v Speaker 2>you know he was on the legend of my grandfather

280
00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:38.399
<v Speaker 2>was that he was in school and you know, a

281
00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:40.360
<v Speaker 2>German team came to play them in soccer. This is

282
00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:44.759
<v Speaker 2>pre war, and they poisoned his team, right, and they

283
00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:49.399
<v Speaker 2>all got sick. Then once Hitler invaded, he was part

284
00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:53.360
<v Speaker 2>of a Jewish community that was debating assassinating Hitler. Half

285
00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:55.720
<v Speaker 2>of the group wanted to assassinate and the other half said,

286
00:14:55.759 --> 00:14:57.600
<v Speaker 2>if you do this, it'll if you try to do this,

287
00:14:57.639 --> 00:15:00.679
<v Speaker 2>it'll only things worse. And so they threat and to report.

288
00:15:00.679 --> 00:15:02.440
<v Speaker 2>And they were going to report the ones who were

289
00:15:02.440 --> 00:15:04.559
<v Speaker 2>going to try to assasay Hitler when Hitler was coming through.

290
00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:08.080
<v Speaker 2>So he ended up escaping to what was been a Palestine.

291
00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:11.200
<v Speaker 2>In Israel, worked as a guard at a girls' school.

292
00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:15.000
<v Speaker 2>There was an incident with an attack and the British,

293
00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:18.200
<v Speaker 2>who controlled Israel at the time, I came to investigate,

294
00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:21.200
<v Speaker 2>found out he spoke German. They recruited him to be

295
00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:25.840
<v Speaker 2>in the British army. They recruited him to be in

296
00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:28.519
<v Speaker 2>the German Army as a spy for the British, and

297
00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:30.679
<v Speaker 2>he ended up in the desert taking pictures for the

298
00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:33.840
<v Speaker 2>British as like a German colonel. And then he went

299
00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:35.759
<v Speaker 2>on after the war to be I think part of

300
00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:38.279
<v Speaker 2>the resistance in Israel. I'm not quite sure, owned a

301
00:15:38.279 --> 00:15:40.799
<v Speaker 2>film shop. Eleanor Roosevelt came into I mean, he had

302
00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:43.840
<v Speaker 2>an amazing life, but it all kind of circles back

303
00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:49.639
<v Speaker 2>into my feeling of like the amount of hatred and

304
00:15:49.639 --> 00:15:53.240
<v Speaker 2>the amount of extreme ideology that like the Nazis had

305
00:15:54.279 --> 00:15:56.159
<v Speaker 2>and had towards someone in my family who was this

306
00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:59.360
<v Speaker 2>old guy that they just threw down the stairs and killed,

307
00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:04.279
<v Speaker 2>you know, is something that's you know, definitely, you know,

308
00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:07.440
<v Speaker 2>is embedded in the work that I did here. So

309
00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:11.759
<v Speaker 2>I think it's hard to escape any story from the

310
00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:15.240
<v Speaker 2>experience of an author or a creator and their family history.

311
00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:18.159
<v Speaker 1>A lot of great science fiction warns that just because

312
00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:21.360
<v Speaker 1>it can be done doesn't mean it should be done.

313
00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:23.200
<v Speaker 1>Where does your book fit into that literature?

314
00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:26.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? You know, it sounds like I could be anti

315
00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:31.240
<v Speaker 2>technology or anti innovation, anti you know all that I'm not.

316
00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:33.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm like the first person. I was like one of

317
00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:35.320
<v Speaker 2>the early people to get a vision pro. I love technology.

318
00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:39.399
<v Speaker 2>I use AI all the time, hopefully responsively, you know,

319
00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:41.399
<v Speaker 2>so I and it's not something that we can put

320
00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:44.279
<v Speaker 2>in a box. You know. It's like modern day the calculator.

321
00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:45.879
<v Speaker 2>You know, there are people like, don't use it, you

322
00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:49.080
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't use it. It's like saying my account should shouldn't use

323
00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:51.759
<v Speaker 2>Excel years ago because it does the math too fast

324
00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:57.679
<v Speaker 2>or something like that. But the book does warn not

325
00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:02.720
<v Speaker 2>necessarily about technology, but about extreme ideology and believing something

326
00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:07.279
<v Speaker 2>in such a pure fanatical way that you can't see

327
00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:09.839
<v Speaker 2>something else or think or challenge it. You know, I

328
00:17:09.880 --> 00:17:12.799
<v Speaker 2>was talking with I also do a podcast called No

329
00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:16.799
<v Speaker 2>When Scenario, and I'm prepping for there's a conversation with

330
00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:20.200
<v Speaker 2>my co host about Disclosure Day, Steven Spielberg's movie that

331
00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:22.680
<v Speaker 2>recently came out, and we're talking about how it's like

332
00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:26.960
<v Speaker 2>subtly his most political film. Because the film ends and

333
00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:28.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to spoil anything, but with a message

334
00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:31.720
<v Speaker 2>of like listen, like listen to each other it's very political.

335
00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:35.240
<v Speaker 2>It starts with like the us UFC fight red hats,

336
00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:37.039
<v Speaker 2>very like if you look at it a certain way,

337
00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:39.200
<v Speaker 2>you see one side of America and it ends what's

338
00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:42.000
<v Speaker 2>maybe another side of America and the messages people need

339
00:17:42.039 --> 00:17:45.599
<v Speaker 2>to listen and stop being consumed in their own path

340
00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:49.640
<v Speaker 2>and so, you know, I think it's about we need

341
00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:52.079
<v Speaker 2>to be empathetic and we need to challenge systems and

342
00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:54.839
<v Speaker 2>we need to challenge and well not challenge, but like

343
00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:58.440
<v Speaker 2>look at who who is in charge of the technology

344
00:17:58.519 --> 00:18:01.359
<v Speaker 2>that's being developed. What do they put putting into that technology?

345
00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:05.200
<v Speaker 2>Because technology right now is changing public opinion, what we believe,

346
00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:08.559
<v Speaker 2>what we think, what's real? Right? I mean, you know

347
00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:11.279
<v Speaker 2>Twitter x Twitter I thought was a great utility of

348
00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:14.720
<v Speaker 2>public resource and it got taken over and it's I

349
00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:17.200
<v Speaker 2>avoid it like the play because it just junk right now.

350
00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:19.200
<v Speaker 2>And is that because it was too rare? You know?

351
00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:21.319
<v Speaker 2>Is that because there was a let's not regulate any

352
00:18:21.319 --> 00:18:24.119
<v Speaker 2>of it in response to it was too regulated? You know,

353
00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:26.599
<v Speaker 2>I'm not quite sure what the deal is there, but

354
00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:28.920
<v Speaker 2>I think we have to sort of think about what

355
00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:31.920
<v Speaker 2>are the guard rails we as a society are willing

356
00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:36.279
<v Speaker 2>to endure so that the technology doesn't run a muck,

357
00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:43.400
<v Speaker 2>or that our realities are not controlled by a few

358
00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:47.359
<v Speaker 2>billionaires or a trillionaire. And nothing against co you know, again,

359
00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:50.680
<v Speaker 2>nothing against corporations and profit and all that, but there

360
00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:52.279
<v Speaker 2>needs to be the sort of checks and balances.

361
00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:54.880
<v Speaker 3>You say your novel in the not too distant future

362
00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:58.920
<v Speaker 3>of twenty sixty, a time that's both familiar and even

363
00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:02.599
<v Speaker 3>more dystopian than the present. Why did you choose twenty sixty?

364
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:04.759
<v Speaker 2>Funny enough, I'd been working on this book for so long.

365
00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:06.960
<v Speaker 2>It used to be like twenty forty, but that's when

366
00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:08.480
<v Speaker 2>I started, I think, in two thousand and six or

367
00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:10.359
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and eight with this idea. So I'm like,

368
00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:12.640
<v Speaker 2>oh god, that's way too soon for now, fourteen fifteen

369
00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:15.839
<v Speaker 2>years from now. We can imagine. The reason I chose

370
00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:18.680
<v Speaker 2>something relatively soon is because the world of the book,

371
00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:23.000
<v Speaker 2>even though there's this whole, this powerful institution, we can

372
00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:30.079
<v Speaker 2>imagine that I didn't want like some futuristic, unbelievable spaceship

373
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:33.960
<v Speaker 2>fearing society because you know, which is funny, because I

374
00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:36.119
<v Speaker 2>love About About five. We're talking about Deep Space nine

375
00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:38.680
<v Speaker 2>before the show. You know, I love those shows, So

376
00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:40.440
<v Speaker 2>it's kind of funny that I'm not like a space

377
00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:44.240
<v Speaker 2>traveling alien cast kind of thing. I wanted something that

378
00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:47.559
<v Speaker 2>people could recognize and just poort over, like one idea,

379
00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:50.599
<v Speaker 2>one germ of a tweak to society that would flip

380
00:19:50.599 --> 00:19:53.599
<v Speaker 2>everything on its head. So it would be something that's like, whoa,

381
00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:56.279
<v Speaker 2>what would happen to us right now in twenty twenty

382
00:19:56.279 --> 00:19:58.640
<v Speaker 2>six or twenty twenty seven if we were able to

383
00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:02.440
<v Speaker 2>sort of tap into something, what would change? So there

384
00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:04.200
<v Speaker 2>are things that are very different in that world in

385
00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:06.960
<v Speaker 2>the inn ascendence, but a lot is very similar. There's

386
00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:11.759
<v Speaker 2>still waiters and waitresses and schools and you know, cars

387
00:20:11.799 --> 00:20:14.920
<v Speaker 2>that you know pollute and things like that. People still

388
00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:19.440
<v Speaker 2>eat normal. It's all that. It's just slight tweaks to

389
00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:20.960
<v Speaker 2>make it more believable. It was important to me to

390
00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:23.480
<v Speaker 2>write something that was like somewhat believable with this one

391
00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:25.720
<v Speaker 2>more fantastical core idea.

392
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:27.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and as you mentioned, there are still rabbis and

393
00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:30.000
<v Speaker 3>the moms and priests and so forth, not.

394
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:31.880
<v Speaker 2>A few like it starts off right away. I think,

395
00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:33.599
<v Speaker 2>like you know, I say, like a, I don't remember

396
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:35.519
<v Speaker 2>the exact line, but it's like a priest, a rabbit,

397
00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:37.599
<v Speaker 2>and a mom walk into a church. You know, you know,

398
00:20:37.640 --> 00:20:40.920
<v Speaker 2>it sounded like an old joke. They're there, but they're

399
00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:44.799
<v Speaker 2>far and few between, because part of the conversation about

400
00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:48.279
<v Speaker 2>this is that, like, wow, could society really abandon organized

401
00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:52.599
<v Speaker 2>religion so quickly? Maybe if you were shown and you

402
00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:55.680
<v Speaker 2>felt proof, and you knew in your core this was real,

403
00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:00.599
<v Speaker 2>maybe you would abandon that religious organization that's telling you

404
00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:02.359
<v Speaker 2>how to eat and live and what to do to

405
00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:06.440
<v Speaker 2>be to go to heaven or no heaven, because you'd

406
00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:07.440
<v Speaker 2>go with what you could feel.

407
00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:09.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm also a pretty big fan of the show Severance,

408
00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:12.759
<v Speaker 1>and I feel like there's some similarities there with you know,

409
00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:14.519
<v Speaker 1>with your book, although it seems like your book was

410
00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:17.599
<v Speaker 1>probably started a little bit earlier than that process.

411
00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:21.039
<v Speaker 2>Was a decade or two before Severance came, but there

412
00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:24.160
<v Speaker 2>is because it's about like Severance is about, you know,

413
00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:29.240
<v Speaker 2>if the technology that its founders created work the way

414
00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:33.160
<v Speaker 2>they wanted to how right? Very often, like Terminator right

415
00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:36.119
<v Speaker 2>from a couple decades ago, was about technology run a book,

416
00:21:36.759 --> 00:21:39.319
<v Speaker 2>modern storytelling, and like you're bringing up, Severance is about

417
00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:45.839
<v Speaker 2>technology that's working exactly as created and affecting offs. So

418
00:21:45.880 --> 00:21:48.359
<v Speaker 2>I think that's an interesting change the other thing.

419
00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:50.799
<v Speaker 1>That I see in both Severance and Silo and in

420
00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:53.000
<v Speaker 1>your book, there's also like a thing about you know,

421
00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:55.880
<v Speaker 1>everybody believes this truth and then there's like another truth

422
00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:58.640
<v Speaker 1>that not everybody knows about. It seems like there's like

423
00:21:58.680 --> 00:22:01.880
<v Speaker 1>a falsehood to it, and I'm wondering what that's like.

424
00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:04.200
<v Speaker 1>That seems like that's a big part of you know,

425
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:06.559
<v Speaker 1>the aforementioned shows, and I feel like maybe it's going

426
00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:08.759
<v Speaker 1>to be a big part of you know, where the

427
00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:09.480
<v Speaker 1>book is going.

428
00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:14.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, mystery is important to me. One of

429
00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:17.000
<v Speaker 2>the things that was important to me when finalizing the novel.

430
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:19.279
<v Speaker 2>And it's gone through a lot. It's got a big history.

431
00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:21.200
<v Speaker 2>It started out as a feature film script that I

432
00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:23.039
<v Speaker 2>thought I could make, but then I couldn't find my

433
00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:26.200
<v Speaker 2>own eighty million dollars in two thousand and eight to

434
00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:30.599
<v Speaker 2>make it. Then it became a series of an anthology

435
00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:32.359
<v Speaker 2>of short films that take place in that world because

436
00:22:32.359 --> 00:22:35.720
<v Speaker 2>I want to develop it. So I had a film

437
00:22:35.960 --> 00:22:38.279
<v Speaker 2>of three short films that another short film that take

438
00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:40.960
<v Speaker 2>place in the world. Then I was told, this is great,

439
00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:42.519
<v Speaker 2>you really should turn into a book so that you

440
00:22:42.519 --> 00:22:44.640
<v Speaker 2>can make it into a TV show. So when COVID

441
00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:47.000
<v Speaker 2>hit I turned into a book, but it was important

442
00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:51.920
<v Speaker 2>to me that to have mystery there and to not

443
00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:54.240
<v Speaker 2>have it so like right in your face at first

444
00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:57.920
<v Speaker 2>about what's happening. It's funny disclosure to day, Like that

445
00:22:57.960 --> 00:23:00.400
<v Speaker 2>first hour, it's very much. It takes you if you

446
00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:02.359
<v Speaker 2>guysn't seen it, but like it takes you right into

447
00:23:02.359 --> 00:23:03.799
<v Speaker 2>the story and you're like, wait, I need some time,

448
00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:06.279
<v Speaker 2>like you're trying to figure out what's happening. I like,

449
00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:09.039
<v Speaker 2>as a kid, I remember picking up Dune in fourth grade.

450
00:23:09.079 --> 00:23:11.039
<v Speaker 2>It's not really a book for fourth graders, but my

451
00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:13.559
<v Speaker 2>older brother got me to all this sci fi stuff

452
00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:16.319
<v Speaker 2>that was beyond me. And ever since I'm in fourth grade,

453
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:18.200
<v Speaker 2>I've read that book one or two times a year,

454
00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:21.240
<v Speaker 2>and for all these decades, there's always something I get

455
00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:23.839
<v Speaker 2>from it, or some seed of something that picks up

456
00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:25.880
<v Speaker 2>later that I might not have noticed when I was younger.

457
00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:28.839
<v Speaker 2>So my hope is that Ascendance is a book where

458
00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:32.759
<v Speaker 2>you get to the end and you're like, oh, wait, yeah,

459
00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:34.799
<v Speaker 2>I get it, but do I get it? Let me

460
00:23:34.880 --> 00:23:38.160
<v Speaker 2>go back and see what's planted and what's there to

461
00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:39.680
<v Speaker 2>sort of wrap it in so that that you get

462
00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:41.839
<v Speaker 2>a little bit more the second read. I don't make

463
00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:43.680
<v Speaker 2>more money if you read it a second time. I

464
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:46.559
<v Speaker 2>just personally find it more enjoyable when the seeds are

465
00:23:46.599 --> 00:23:50.160
<v Speaker 2>planted but you don't necessarily know where they're headed. And

466
00:23:50.200 --> 00:23:52.160
<v Speaker 2>then when you get to that like last third of

467
00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:54.440
<v Speaker 2>the book and it's all coming together, you're like, wait

468
00:23:54.519 --> 00:23:56.839
<v Speaker 2>a second, wasn't this all and then you see it.

469
00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:01.960
<v Speaker 2>I like that experience. Otherwise, it's like the analogy I

470
00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:04.359
<v Speaker 2>have is like a lot of storytelling sometimes is like

471
00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:07.920
<v Speaker 2>a young child telling a story in school. This happened,

472
00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:11.279
<v Speaker 2>then this happened. Then this happened, then this happened. It

473
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:16.359
<v Speaker 2>could be good. You know, the movie projectail Mary and

474
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:19.279
<v Speaker 2>the book Project I read projectail Mary first. I enjoyed it,

475
00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:22.200
<v Speaker 2>so the movie thought it was a fine adaptation of

476
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:25.279
<v Speaker 2>the book, and I really enjoyed the book. But I

477
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:28.559
<v Speaker 2>will never read it again, I think because I had

478
00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:31.319
<v Speaker 2>that experience. This happened, this happened, this happen, this happened.

479
00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:34.000
<v Speaker 2>I was riveted. I liked it, but once it was over,

480
00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:35.759
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I don't think there's anything more for me

481
00:24:35.799 --> 00:24:39.480
<v Speaker 2>to go back and revisit. So I prefer the types

482
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:41.559
<v Speaker 2>of storytelling where there's something to go back and revisit.

483
00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:45.839
<v Speaker 1>The sentence deals a lot with tensions between technocratic determinism

484
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:49.640
<v Speaker 1>and human agency. Is this a commentary on the dangers

485
00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:50.000
<v Speaker 1>of AI?

486
00:24:50.359 --> 00:24:52.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it's a commentary on the dangers of AI.

487
00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:55.279
<v Speaker 2>And it's hard for me to answer this without potentially

488
00:24:55.319 --> 00:24:59.319
<v Speaker 2>spoiling the point of the book at the end, so

489
00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:03.119
<v Speaker 2>I just keep going back to it's a commentary about

490
00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:11.720
<v Speaker 2>the dangers of not having empathy and not questioning institutions

491
00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:15.359
<v Speaker 2>and ideology. I don't think it's about AI. There is

492
00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:18.519
<v Speaker 2>AI in there, There is advanced technology, and it could

493
00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:21.799
<v Speaker 2>be read that way for me personally, that's not the intention.

494
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:23.519
<v Speaker 2>If someone gets that out of it.

495
00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:28.279
<v Speaker 3>Sure, speaking of AI. Ray Kurtzweil, an AI pioneer, calls

496
00:25:28.319 --> 00:25:31.519
<v Speaker 3>your novel a provocative thought experiment on the future of

497
00:25:31.559 --> 00:25:35.839
<v Speaker 3>consciousness that underscores the moral imperative to guide our technological

498
00:25:36.039 --> 00:25:39.400
<v Speaker 3>ingenuity toward the common good. Are you at all optimistic

499
00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:43.160
<v Speaker 3>about tech companies and governments following this moral imperative?

500
00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:49.400
<v Speaker 2>Once I'm optimistic, I think I'm stupidly hopeful that we

501
00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:51.960
<v Speaker 2>will find our way out of it. Maybe it was

502
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:55.880
<v Speaker 2>luck that we survived the atomic age and nuclear destruction.

503
00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:59.200
<v Speaker 2>We still might not Maybe it was aliens who prevented

504
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:04.160
<v Speaker 2>those missiles. Know, disculature may be happening, But you know,

505
00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:08.440
<v Speaker 2>I am, I am hopeful that we as a people

506
00:26:09.880 --> 00:26:14.039
<v Speaker 2>can prevent the worst of the worst from happening, that

507
00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:17.799
<v Speaker 2>at some point the fever breaks and that we're able

508
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:23.119
<v Speaker 2>to empathize with one another with at making this too political.

509
00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:28.359
<v Speaker 2>There's definitely this tension between empathy and what's mine and

510
00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:34.000
<v Speaker 2>should be mine? And I think that transfers to technological

511
00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:40.240
<v Speaker 2>advancement and innovation. So will it happen now? What happened

512
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:44.160
<v Speaker 2>with this administration? You know, governments are always what they're

513
00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:47.160
<v Speaker 2>lagging twenty thirty years in terms of regulation, Like are

514
00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:49.759
<v Speaker 2>we still talking about regulating I don't know what, but

515
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:54.920
<v Speaker 2>we're not talking about regulating AI right now. Could you

516
00:26:54.920 --> 00:26:58.559
<v Speaker 2>know a country decide to create an unleashed an AI

517
00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:03.000
<v Speaker 2>that just gets into a sis destroys everything, you bet? Am

518
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:05.680
<v Speaker 2>I hopeful that we survive that somehow? I think so?

519
00:27:06.279 --> 00:27:08.400
<v Speaker 2>Am I optimistic? I don't know, it was hopeful and

520
00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:11.680
<v Speaker 2>optimism the same thing. There might be a little nuance there.

521
00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:14.559
<v Speaker 3>One of the things that could come out of this

522
00:27:14.839 --> 00:27:18.279
<v Speaker 3>whole moment that we're in is that AI is teaching

523
00:27:18.359 --> 00:27:22.039
<v Speaker 3>us how to be human or what being human is,

524
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:25.599
<v Speaker 3>because we're seeing kind of the absence of it in

525
00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:28.519
<v Speaker 3>the AI art and other things that are kind of

526
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:30.240
<v Speaker 3>crapping all over the place.

527
00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:32.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, yes, there's AI slop. However, I take

528
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:35.720
<v Speaker 2>sort of a slight objection to that because I think,

529
00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:37.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, we're still in the early phases of AI.

530
00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:39.119
<v Speaker 2>There was a ton of AI slop what a year

531
00:27:39.160 --> 00:27:41.359
<v Speaker 2>or two ago, and now things are so much better.

532
00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:43.160
<v Speaker 2>I use it every day as a tool, not as

533
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:45.640
<v Speaker 2>a content tool, but as a you know, it used

534
00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:48.359
<v Speaker 2>to have a blank page, and now you don't need

535
00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:51.400
<v Speaker 2>to have writers or creative design writer's block. You can start,

536
00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:53.839
<v Speaker 2>you can describe what you want and have that written

537
00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:56.079
<v Speaker 2>or visualized there, and then you tweak it, you edit it,

538
00:27:56.279 --> 00:27:59.359
<v Speaker 2>and I think that's a wonderful thing. I think what's

539
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:02.039
<v Speaker 2>interesting is that that the AI might be telling stories

540
00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:05.319
<v Speaker 2>for us. So that's part of it that's interesting. But

541
00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:08.119
<v Speaker 2>there's a world where you can look at this, where

542
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:12.440
<v Speaker 2>AI relieves such burden of labor that with the right

543
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:16.880
<v Speaker 2>conditions of political and societal will, the human race turns

544
00:28:17.319 --> 00:28:23.000
<v Speaker 2>towards art and music as what's valued and what people

545
00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:26.200
<v Speaker 2>can do so that their creative passions. Like that's super

546
00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:30.039
<v Speaker 2>optimistic next generation, whereas like, oh, we don't need money anymore.

547
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:32.880
<v Speaker 2>People just pursue their passions. And everyone watching that in

548
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:35.119
<v Speaker 2>was the nineties eighties were like, huh, Like how is

549
00:28:35.160 --> 00:28:36.880
<v Speaker 2>there no money? Like how do you have like a

550
00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:39.279
<v Speaker 2>you know, a janitor cleaning a ground? Like how is

551
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:42.119
<v Speaker 2>that their passion? So if people were skeptical, skeptical of that,

552
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:46.079
<v Speaker 2>but if the technology can relieve us of some of

553
00:28:46.119 --> 00:28:51.440
<v Speaker 2>those burdens and society appreciates that, then maybe we all

554
00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:56.440
<v Speaker 2>can go out and survive and thrive, you know, doing

555
00:28:56.519 --> 00:28:59.079
<v Speaker 2>what we love doing. And so maybe it does lead

556
00:28:59.079 --> 00:29:01.279
<v Speaker 2>to it to utopia. Maybe we're all saying it's going

557
00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:04.519
<v Speaker 2>to lead to the end and destruction, but maybe it

558
00:29:04.599 --> 00:29:06.640
<v Speaker 2>leads towards utopia. It might take a long time to

559
00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:10.240
<v Speaker 2>get there. Maybe not. Now you're sounding like Ray Kurtzwow,

560
00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:12.839
<v Speaker 2>Ray is interesting. I mean, I've known obviously his work

561
00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:16.960
<v Speaker 2>on the Singularity tremendously influenced this book. When I was younger,

562
00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:20.200
<v Speaker 2>I was the second unit director, was my official title

563
00:29:20.279 --> 00:29:23.400
<v Speaker 2>on a film called Transcendent Man. That came out about right.

564
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:25.279
<v Speaker 2>He lived right around the corner from my old studio,

565
00:29:25.559 --> 00:29:28.039
<v Speaker 2>so Barry told me who directed the film. When he

566
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:30.319
<v Speaker 2>couldn't fly out or when he needed a backup crew

567
00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:32.519
<v Speaker 2>or whatever, I'd go out with my team. We'd film

568
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:34.039
<v Speaker 2>for a number of years. So I'm sure I was

569
00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:37.720
<v Speaker 2>influenced by him. Just so happened last year, after years

570
00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:39.720
<v Speaker 2>of not seeing him, he and his team came back

571
00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:42.319
<v Speaker 2>into my studio to do some work for streaming and filming,

572
00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:45.400
<v Speaker 2>and I'm like, oh, any chance I could slip the

573
00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:48.559
<v Speaker 2>right and take a look. So you guys have the

574
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:51.680
<v Speaker 2>arc the advanced copy, but his quote is right on

575
00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:53.759
<v Speaker 2>the top of the on the sales copy and on

576
00:29:53.799 --> 00:29:56.119
<v Speaker 2>the inside as well. So I was really grateful for

577
00:29:56.200 --> 00:29:59.359
<v Speaker 2>him and his team to take a look and agree

578
00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:02.200
<v Speaker 2>to do that because having his voice, you know, the

579
00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:04.839
<v Speaker 2>praise quotes in the book are from him, from the

580
00:30:04.839 --> 00:30:08.119
<v Speaker 2>Science Advisor, from Star Trek, from Derek Tyler Attack who's

581
00:30:08.119 --> 00:30:10.880
<v Speaker 2>a writer for Star Trek, the Manhattan book review. I

582
00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:13.559
<v Speaker 2>believe it just really meant a lot to have these

583
00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:16.440
<v Speaker 2>voices sort of in support of it, And so that's

584
00:30:16.519 --> 00:30:18.839
<v Speaker 2>really helpful because you know, this is my first book,

585
00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:21.519
<v Speaker 2>I've been working on this story for twenty years, you know,

586
00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:23.839
<v Speaker 2>but you know it's hard to I'm not known for

587
00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:26.319
<v Speaker 2>being a novelist, so getting it out there is a

588
00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:28.920
<v Speaker 2>real challenge, even with a publisher and a publicist. So

589
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:31.559
<v Speaker 2>having ray support and other people's support has been has

590
00:30:31.559 --> 00:30:32.680
<v Speaker 2>been a big plus for it.

591
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:34.680
<v Speaker 1>You already kind of told us about the history of it,

592
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:38.519
<v Speaker 1>but you know you are also a filmmaker. May we

593
00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:40.039
<v Speaker 1>see in the sentence movie someday.

594
00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:42.839
<v Speaker 2>I hope there's an ascended something one day, whether or

595
00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:44.839
<v Speaker 2>not it's a movie, a TV show, or a lunchbox.

596
00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:46.400
<v Speaker 2>I loved when this book was done and out in

597
00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:48.160
<v Speaker 2>the world and the story was there. It was a

598
00:30:48.200 --> 00:30:49.799
<v Speaker 2>process to write it. It took a while to write

599
00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:52.400
<v Speaker 2>a book, and someone who's primarily you know, I run

600
00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:55.960
<v Speaker 2>a production company. You know. I've done films, produced films

601
00:30:55.960 --> 00:30:59.640
<v Speaker 2>that made my own. Those happen faster than writing a

602
00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:01.559
<v Speaker 2>novel getting it out, so I was antsy to get

603
00:31:01.599 --> 00:31:04.319
<v Speaker 2>it out. It literally has just been three months and

604
00:31:04.359 --> 00:31:06.640
<v Speaker 2>two days since the book was released, and I was

605
00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:10.200
<v Speaker 2>meeting with someone about potentially selling it for a show,

606
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:12.720
<v Speaker 2>and I'm like, I gotta keep moving. I gotta keep

607
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:14.799
<v Speaker 2>moving and she's like, it's only been three months. It's

608
00:31:14.839 --> 00:31:18.599
<v Speaker 2>a book, Calm down, and I'm eager. I do think

609
00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:23.359
<v Speaker 2>this story lends well to a TV show more so

610
00:31:23.400 --> 00:31:25.039
<v Speaker 2>than a movie, because there's a lot of story to

611
00:31:25.079 --> 00:31:27.240
<v Speaker 2>tell in the book, and there's a lot more stories

612
00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:28.960
<v Speaker 2>to tell in this world. And I do want to

613
00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:31.359
<v Speaker 2>continue the series. I have the ideas right now for

614
00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:33.720
<v Speaker 2>the next couple of books, so if it does well,

615
00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:35.960
<v Speaker 2>I do want to continue the series a novel form.

616
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:38.920
<v Speaker 2>But ultimately, in my heart, this is a TV show,

617
00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:41.559
<v Speaker 2>So I would love to get it out there and

618
00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:45.279
<v Speaker 2>picked up by the Apple TVs, the hbos of the world,

619
00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:48.480
<v Speaker 2>because that's where genre genre TV is hard enough as

620
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:50.680
<v Speaker 2>it is, but that's where they're Those two in particular,

621
00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:53.960
<v Speaker 2>are really spending the time in the resources on it.

622
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:58.039
<v Speaker 2>So that's kind of half of my time now, beyond

623
00:31:57.720 --> 00:32:01.200
<v Speaker 2>my job as Charles Remediate CEO, as teaching when I teach,

624
00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:05.279
<v Speaker 2>as podcast hosting, beyond selling kind of get the book

625
00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:08.519
<v Speaker 2>out there and doing podcasts and all these things. I

626
00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:10.240
<v Speaker 2>am trying to now get out there and get a

627
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:14.000
<v Speaker 2>team together to get this book option. Because even I've

628
00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:15.680
<v Speaker 2>had a lot of good reviews, a lot of great

629
00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:17.960
<v Speaker 2>reviews from people people called it like one an early

630
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:20.880
<v Speaker 2>reviewer called it a sci fi game of Thrones. I

631
00:32:20.920 --> 00:32:23.720
<v Speaker 2>loved it. I don't think so one bit. I don't

632
00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:26.000
<v Speaker 2>see the connection, but I will take it. It's great.

633
00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:28.160
<v Speaker 2>It's a great quote. I printed it out. It'll be

634
00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:32.000
<v Speaker 2>with me when I signed books on tables. But the

635
00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:35.920
<v Speaker 2>reviews that were more critical, almost every single one of

636
00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:38.799
<v Speaker 2>them has said this would work better as a TV show.

637
00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:42.000
<v Speaker 2>I love the idea, but I don't like four characters

638
00:32:42.039 --> 00:32:44.279
<v Speaker 2>or whatever it is. But this would be great on

639
00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:46.359
<v Speaker 2>TV and I would watch it. So I have a

640
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:48.160
<v Speaker 2>slide deck, and I have these are the good reviews,

641
00:32:48.240 --> 00:32:49.880
<v Speaker 2>and the next slide these are the bad reviews, and

642
00:32:49.880 --> 00:32:51.880
<v Speaker 2>they all say make it a TV show, make a

643
00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:53.759
<v Speaker 2>TV show. There should be a movie. I'd love to

644
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:56.279
<v Speaker 2>see this on a screen. And so that is really

645
00:32:56.279 --> 00:32:58.240
<v Speaker 2>great to see because you can't expect every review to

646
00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:02.480
<v Speaker 2>be perfect. But if people who maybe worse mid to

647
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:05.680
<v Speaker 2>quote my kids on the book still want the story

648
00:33:05.720 --> 00:33:07.559
<v Speaker 2>and they want to see it visually, then I think

649
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:09.960
<v Speaker 2>that's a great sign. So I'm really hoping I can

650
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:12.599
<v Speaker 2>continue the conversations I had years ago pre COVID about

651
00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:14.359
<v Speaker 2>getting this seen on screens.

652
00:33:14.599 --> 00:33:15.640
<v Speaker 3>Well, I hope it happens.

653
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:19.640
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, thanks for joining us my pleasure. I'm glad

654
00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:20.759
<v Speaker 2>I was an amusing Jew and.

655
00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:23.519
<v Speaker 3>To our audience, now back to your regularly scheduled lives.

656
00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:27.759
<v Speaker 1>Amusing Jews is here to amuse you. If you like

657
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:33.440
<v Speaker 1>being amused, go ahead and click like and subscribe,